October 2, 2024 • 27 mins
Can loneliness be both a curse and a complex journey of self-discovery? Join us on this thought-provoking episode of "The AdopTwins" as we unpack the universal experience of loneliness through our unique lenses as adoptees. We ponder whether having all the answers would ease or deepen our solitude and share heartfelt stories about searching for meaningful connections, from childhood streets to the quiet corners of Connecticut.
Imagine a sudden storm disrupting your day, mirroring life's unexpected turns. We open up about the emotional exhaustion of being the perpetual listener in draining relationships and recount middle and high school memories where loneliness often pushed us into toxic dynamics. Learn how we navigated the difficult path of setting boundaries to protect our emotional well-being and moved towards relationships that genuinely nourish us.
Ever felt isolated at work or school despite everyone around you? We certainly have, and we candidly discuss using humor and abrasiveness as shields in unsupportive environments, from college halls to bustling offices. Through shared experiences, we discovered that challenging circumstances can forge unique bonds of understanding and safety. This episode promises to be an emotional and engaging journey, where we share our vulnerabilities, triumphs, and the search for authentic connection.
Follow us on IG @theadoptwins
visit us on the web at https://adoptwins.com/
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Meg (00:19):
Hi, this is Meg.
Billy (00:20):
And this is Billy.
Meg (00:21):
And we are.
Billy (00:22):
The Adopt Twins.
And t
Meg (00:24):
Welcome to a podcast from two adoptees who are navigating
life loss, moving on, andgrowing up.
Billy (00:31):
For our adopted friends we hope to bring you a familiar
point of view and for ourfriends who aren't welcome to
the complicated jungle of how weget on.
Yeah, what do you want to talkabout Loneliness?
ecause it's a universal thing,it i
Meg (00:51):
It
Billy (00:51):
Wealways alone in our thoughts, in our brains, no
matter what you kno
Meg (00:55):
YoI don't really feel like I'm alone in my brain because
there's just so much going onall the time in there.
Billy (01:04):
Really Like what kind of stuff?
Meg (01:06):
Like what am I doing with my life?
What should I have for dinner?
Why do my parents hate me?
Why did my parents leave mebehind the marketplace?
Who are my parents?
What should I do this weekend?
Why can't I be with my childall of the time?
Why am I not in Italy right now?
What should I paint my toenailsnext?
(01:28):
Why did I quit my job?
Why does my boss hate me?
Well, why can't I do this?
Why can't I do that?
Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah,blah, blah.
All sorts of things, all sortsof things.
Never alone, never alone.
Billy (01:48):
That's good.
Do you think, if all of thosejust stop being prevalent in
your mind's chatter, that itwould be better or worse for
your mental well-being?
Meg (01:55):
I think that it would depend on why it went away.
Is it because I got answers tothe questions?
Billy (02:01):
Yeah, you got answers to every question.
Meg (02:05):
Oh, I got answers to all the questions.
Billy (02:07):
And you're satisfied too.
It's not like they all of asudden spin out to a thousand
other questions.
Meg (02:16):
Yeah, I think it would be better.
Billy (02:19):
That's good, yeah, but then you'd be alone.
Meg (02:21):
I would.
I would be alone.
Billy (02:23):
Mm-hmm.
Meg (02:24):
Yes, but I don't really like being with people anyways
so.
Billy (02:34):
Shout out to your kid
Meg (02:36):
I mean he's fine because he's a part of me.
Billy (02:41):
So did you always not like being around people?
Was there a time when you gavepeople more of a chance and they
just kept letting you down?
Meg (02:51):
Maybe, but I don't really remember that time.
I remember being like 12 yearsold and telling my mother that
people were idiotic imbeciles.
And my mother said no, they'renot, not all people.
And I said see, that's thething.
The rule is that they are.
And then there's exceptions tothe rule.
And she said oh well, I thinkyou need to give more people the
(03:21):
benefit of the doubt.
And I said no, no, I don't.
So I don't really know when Imay have felt differently.
I'm sure I probably did at somepoint, but I think it was
probably before I spent thosecouple years on the street as an
infant.
Billy (03:34):
It's hard to come back from that.
Meg (03:36):
Yes, yeah, it's really hard .
Billy (03:40):
I felt you echo the sentiment of a feeling I've had
regionally when it comes to theNortheast, particularly like
certain parts of the Northeastlike Connecticut and a certain
part of Western Massachusetts,where it's an amazing moment
when you find a good one right.
(04:01):
It's somebody who is empathetic,somebody who is fun, somebody
who can carry a conversationwithout immediately turning it
all back on them, somebody thatlistens and all like the
qualities you want to have, andsomebody who can help abate the
loneliness of this horribleexistence.
And then the rest of thecountry.
(04:22):
here's like a bit of a ratioswitch I've found where the
people who suck can be a lotless in comparison to the people
who are people that want inyour life or I've wanted in my
life.
But it's interesting if theexperience is that you are in
that one particular part andsurrounding where that becomes
(04:44):
the reality, such as if you'reliving in Connecticut, it's like
no, anybody I've talked towho's moved away from
Connecticut, they're like, yeah,there's that universal thing of
like no, most people kind ofsuck.
You can't trust those.
Let me tell you a thousandstories about people that aren't
good and let me tell you aboutlike a couple of bright spots
(05:05):
that maybe in the universe onanother planet, there's like a
contingent of those types ofpeople.
It's my finding.
I was lucky enough to haveexperiences in the Navy and have
community before moving toConnecticut.
When I was having the thoughtsof, wow, most people suck.
It was wow, most people suckhere.
I've always been a very socialperson who needs people in order
(05:28):
to charge my battery.
Stimulating conversation inorder to make me feel recharg
Meg (05:35):
I feel I need to do by mysel
And if I had to choose betweenno conversation and just flat
out dumb conversation, I wouldchoose no conversation.
Billy (05:54):
What is your definition of dumb conversation?
Meg (05:59):
That was very ableist of me to say I shouldn't have said
that first off.
So I apologize.
Billy (06:05):
Apology accepted.
Meg (06:06):
But as far as the less than ideal conversation would be
people who just want to spendthe time with just idle gossip,
talk that's just surrounded oncelebrities for the entire time,
celebrities for the entire tim.
(06:28):
That talk that is justcomplaints about things that are
going on without wanting tocome to solutions and ways to
fix it.
That is what I consider lessthan ideal conversation.
I prefer a conversation whereperhaps there are things that
aren't great, so okay, let'sdiscuss those things, but then
let's find out how we can findsolutions to those things or
(06:50):
what we can do to help makethose things better, whether
it's in our own personal livesor for others.
And I like conversations.
Okay, we want to talk aboutentertainment type stuff?
Okay, but let's talk about afilm we saw or a television show
or a book we read and break itdown and discuss what was good
(07:10):
about it, what could have beenbetter about it, how that
affects society in a way, thingslike that.
It's just this idle chatterthat has just become so
prevalent in the world today.
I am good being alone.
Billy (07:29):
I agree I have felt more alone when I've been surrounded
by that idle chatter.
Meg (07:38):
What the heck was that?
Is God mad are you?
Are you being held against yourwill right now?
Billy (07:48):
You know, Chicago, things get crazy over here.
Meg (07:51):
I do, but you can't always believe it.
I saw this news thing aboutthis guy, who was apparently a
celebrity, who was beat up, andthat ended up not being true dis
Billy (08:06):
DTell me all about the celebrity gossip.
Spill the tea.
Meg (08:13):
Thank you for going there with me.
Billy (08:16):
Welcome.
Oh wow, there's a massivethunderstorm that's about to-
Meg (08:21):
That was thunder??
Billy (08:22):
Yeah, that was.
I can't describe how sunny itis to you right now.
I look south, sunny with someclouds.
I look north, sunny, with someclouds, but it sounded like a
lightning strike just happenedtwo blocks away.
Oh my Go I mean I haveheadphones on and it still
(08:44):
jolted me a little bit.
But looking at the radar, it'sone of those storms that is just
sort of forming out of nowhereand it's a biggin', oh goodnes
So we might have some otherinterruptions from the Almighty
while we talk about how much wedon't like idle gossip.
Meg (09:02):
I would think he'd be on our side with that
Billy (09:05):
pparently not.
You shall talk about theKardashians.
It is why I have created them.
Maybe God is a woman after all.
That a was very bad of me tosay, but it's just been so
(09:26):
cemented in my head from all ofthe things I've heard from the
media, from people, that thosekinds of things just come out of
my mouth.
Mayb, no, absolutely, they're they'r on it though.
They're working on it, though,they're working on it.
But going back to, like, theloneliness of wanting that and
not having, not having thatdefinitely the loneliest points
(09:49):
in my life, because all I'vewanted was was- a fan of joy and
I'm a fan of if there's somesadness that's going on, talking
through it and figuring out,just figuring out a way of I
don't know how to put it.
But moving on to the next part,that gets you closer to the
(10:16):
excitement of the little thingsof even just going out for a
walk in the park and tossing aball around Right, of the little
things of even just going outfor a walk in the park and
tossing a ball around right,mm-hmm.
mm-hmAnd when it's a consistent
barrage, like when I was inmiddle school and high school, I
was somebody who wassurrounding the self, to be
honest, with people who had aconsistent problem, because I
(10:42):
needed to have conversation, butat the same time, I don't think
people on the whole, or atleast to the degree that I
wanted in terms of quantity,liked me enough so I could
consistently bounce from personto person, to person to person.
So I would rest with people whohad these monumental,
(11:05):
devastating problems and everysingle day it was the same
conversation and there was nomovement and there was no amount
of me attempting to help,whether with a passing haiku or
phrase, or actually doingstudying on help.
(11:26):
rying to help the person wouldhelp, it would just be.
I would just be a soundingboard, right, and like that
existence and I don't know ifit's just as an adoptive person,
but that existence was rough.
Meg (11:43):
Yeah, I had similar experiences where, for whatever
reason, people seemed to feellike they could come to me an
but talk at me and dump all oftheir problems and their worries
(12:09):
and their bad energy at me, dayin and day out, and people that
I wouldn't even necessarilyconsider good friends, people
who I knew but didn'tnecessarily hang out with often,
(12:30):
and then at one point Iremember, with a few of them I
just had to just cut them offcompletely because I emotionally
couldn't handle it myselfanymore.
Billy (12:44):
It's a big moment when you do that.
Meg (12:46):
Yeah.
Billy (12:46):
, ow'd they take it?
Meg (12:49):
I don't know.
Billy (12:53):
Did you just kind of say I can't do this anymore, or did
you just stop responding?
Meg (12:59):
Just stopped responding.
Billy (13:00):
Nice.
Meg (13:01):
Yeah, yah.
So I don't know if it'ssomething about us.
Whe we just come off as Yeahsome sort of connectio because
(13:26):
they are als damaged and theycan see it or sense it or feel
it and they feel some sort ofconnection because they are also
damaged a feel that they cantrust us enough to say their
darkest secrets.
Billy (13:31):
I think we have, because we do have that feeling
underlying everything.
I I find myself making the I'mnot say mistake, but it's in my
nature to ask just a quickfollow-up question and usually
that opens the floodgates Likehow are you doing?
(13:53):
You know, I'm okay.
aving that desire to not bealone.
For a while I guess it was goodto have the attention of other
(14:15):
people, to seem valuable and toseem like I'm actually here in
this world for a reason and it'sto help you.
And then it kind of morphedinto to help people like you.
Meg (14:30):
Yeah and I think that's a big part of it is that we at
least it sounds like from whatyou're saying and from how I
think the reason for myself andI don't know about other
adoptees, but at least from thetwo of us that from us being
adoptees, we've kind of alwaysfelt like we needed to prove our
(14:54):
worth in a way.
These people needed us in someway, even if it wasn't
necessarily what we wanted inrelationships with these people,
but they needed us so we werehappy to be needed.
Billy (15:12):
Yep, and we acquiesced to the role that they designated
to us.
Meg (15:18):
Yeah.
Billy (15:19):
Yeah.
Meg (15:20):
Yeah.
Because it was better thanbeing alone.
Billy (15:32):
Yeah, truly, the last time I felt sort of truly alone
was a- You ever work a job wherejust everybody doesn't like you
?
Meg (15:39):
Oh, yeah.
Billy (15:41):
I've only had the good fortune of working that once,
but it was a tou I think.
I think it was like yeah, itwas a five-week tour that
spanned the east coast over totexas up to chicago.
It's about a team of four of usor five of us, and I don't know
(16:02):
how we got on the wrong foot,but they well, I lost some
equipment pretty early on, to behonest, for the tour hat was,
pretty specifically, I was kindof, you know, a little forgetful
and I also had my birthday onone of the days and I maybe gone
out to a karaoke bar, stayedout till 4 am, tried to shower
(16:25):
the stink off me for when we hadto be at the place, we needed
to be for 10 am and it didn'twork, but these people did not
like me and it felt bad.
I first thought.
My first thought was if peopleare feeling like this all the
time, this is agony to have aconsistency of no matter who you
(16:48):
turn to, you're not getting anysupport.
It's also tough when it's atwork, because it's your money,
because you need to work.
There's a breaking point thatyou reach when you're like I got
to leave, righ it takes a whileto get there.
So there's a lot of enduringthat loneliness I feel like.
Meg (17:05):
eah, I've definitely felt that way at some jobs and even
sometimes at school, and that'snever easy.
AI purposely, I feel may havetried to start off on the wrong
foot, to try to keep people away, to not let people get close,
(17:33):
because I was so sick of beingdisappointed in people.
Billy (17:38):
What would be your tactic ?
Meg (17:39):
There would be times, like in college in my freshman year,
I spent pretty much no time onmy floor.
I pretty much didn't get toknow any of the girls that lived
in my wing and I really triedto just avoid them.
(18:00):
And so they all became friendsand got to know each other.
And then there were some timeswhere I had some difficult
moments and I just ended upalone and that was difficult and
, looking back, you know I didthat to myself.
Billy (18:17):
Yeah, you made yourself an outcast.
Meg (18:21):
Yeah.
Billy (18:23):
And not because you didn't understand human dynamics
, but because you wanted toprotect yourself.
Meg (18:28):
Right.
It's, I guess, because Iunderstood them so well that I
played them to work in the favorthat I thought I had wanted,
and it wasn't necessarily thebest decision, I suppose.
Billy (18:41):
I mean it sounds like it sort of stemmed from a survival
mechanism coming from being backin middle school, high school,
maybe even grammar school, wherepeople in school we can't trust
.
So just cut that out.
Meg (18:56):
And then one day I had a job on my first day.
ome people were joking and Iwas like the only female that
worked there and I said to theeffect of if you don't shut up,
I'll shank you.
And they laughed and I was likeyou don't know me, you don't
know if I'm kidding or not, andthat kind of got us off on the
wrong foot.
Billy (19:18):
I would have thought that was hilarious.
Meg (19:22):
They did until I said the second part.
Then they got a little worriedan
Billy (19:27):
Athen they were like, oh cool,
Meg (19:33):
eah, I had different ways of doing it depending on the
situation.
Billy (19:36):
Yeah.
Meg (19:36):
Because I am a chameleon.
Billy (19:39):
What if you had come across You were like no, you
don't know me, and somebodychallenged you.
You think you would have become.
You were like no, you don'tknow me and somebody like
challenged yo You think youwould have become friends with
them, as opposed to themslithering away.
And would you have gone evenfarther?
Meg (19:48):
I probably would have gone even farther.
Billy (19:50):
Would you have stabbed somebody?
Meg (19:53):
Idon't know.
Billy (19:55):
Okay, cool.
Meg (19:56):
, his was a few months after I had gotten out of the
place to rest for a week, so youknow.
Billy (20:09):
when you went to your spa .
Meg (20:11):
Yes, so not really sure, could have gone either way, I
suppose.
Billy (20:18):
I'm glad we did not meet each other when we met each
other, because otherwise I'd bedead right now.
I would have been like oh yeah,here's a knife.
What do you got in you?
You think you can take thingsfar?
Oh, I'm adopted.
It's a superpower.
I'm going to out-uncomfortableyou.
(20:38):
You're going to see, You'regoing to get my blood on you and
you're going to then be myfriend.
Meg (20:42):
Yeah, if you're gonna see, you're gonna get my blood on you
and you're gonna then be myfrien Yeah, if you're not dead.
Billy (20:48):
ight.
Worth it.
Oh, she's running away.
It didn't work.
We could have done a podcasttogether.
Oh geez, hat's so funny.
But yeah, I know people getweird when you take it a little
farther.
Meg (21:02):
Yeah.
Billy (21:02):
There was a friend of mine who he enjoyed observing
people it's kind of his thing atparties.
And he at that point in my lifehe sort of pegged me down and
he said, illy, I like what youdo, I like that you go into a
place and you push everybodythat you have a conversation
with just past their comfortzone, for them to be off balance
(21:24):
, but then you bring it back andthen they don't know what's
happening, but they don'tnecessarily hate it.
It's a protective mechanism forme too, because then I can just
say, if they're not about it, Ican just say, well, they just
don't get my sense of humor.
And I'm protected because I'mthe star of my own movie right
(21:48):
now.
So I don't have to work onanything, I don't have to worry
about other people's feelingsand safety and boundaries.
Meg (21:58):
Oh yeah, I always felt safe with you, though.
Billy (22:01):
Same.
I mean, well, we started offwith being in a situation that
is literal danger, right, righit can only be safer from there,
righ But yeah, in all of ourconversations, every time we
hung out, every time we'verandomly popped up in each
other's space, it's always as ifwe're just picking up where we
(22:22):
left off spac
Meg (22:24):
It's always as if we're just picking up where we where
we left off.
Yeah, Oh, oh, but I did not,did not feel safe, but I was.
I mean, I was with you, but notwith you at that moment in the
bathroom when we went to karaoke.
Billy (22:34):
h, with that crazy fucking person.
Ye yeah, over by yConn.
Meg (22:39):
Yes, eah not feel safe.
Billy (22:42):
First time at that karaoke bar, I think, and I was
like that person liked you.
That person was like that issome exoticism right there.
She could not stop looking atyou, yeah, and you kept coming
out and being.
hen you came out of thatbathroom and you're like I'm
(23:03):
going to be here now and I'mlike, oh, OK,
Meg (23:07):
I think she asked me to try on her wig or something.
Billy (23:10):
Yeah, she did.
Here.
e thought it was just going tobe a nice, nice day of karaoke.
All you had to do was travel.
hat an hour to get to it.
Totally w, it's not likethere's karaoke anywhere more in
between, ike we had to gobeyond where I was living.
Meg (23:28):
Yeah, it was an hour to you , and then.
Billy (23:35):
Yep Gosh.
Meg (23:36):
Oh gosh, ridiculous yeah, that was the only time I felt
unsafe fter the ballet.
Billy (23:41):
That's fair.
Meg (23:42):
Englishman.
Billy (23:42):
Yeah, that was the only time I felt unsafe After the
ballet.
That's fair Englishma Yeah,exactly, Gosh.
I mean we were together on likethe literal worst program I had
ever been a part of, orespecially having to manage that
BlackBerry program.
Meg (23:56):
Oh, oh gosh.
Billy (23:58):
Where they were- You
Meg (23:59):
remember that h, yeah, oh, I was alone on that because I
did enough.
I stayed with no, no, no,samsung, I'm sorry, samsung, I
got moved to after theblackberry one.
Yeah, and that's where I wasalone because my co-manager
never came to work.
Billy (24:15):
But yeah blackberry lackberry was a trip.
I knew you were going throughyour stuff
Meg (24:23):
h yeah
Billy (24:24):
ut I was like equally like.
I guess that like also kind ofcaught like compliments our
friendship where both of us aregoing through equally stressful,
crazy situations.
Meg (24:36):
Sonic, gotta go fast, gotta go
Billy (24:38):
, otta go fast, gotta go fast.
And just like showing up andseeing each other like hips in
the night, being like iseverything good?
No, not over here either.
Anyways, hey, could everybodystop getting in line for free
falafel and go do your job.
Meg (24:52):
And we're literally just giving away free phones.
Billy (24:56):
ust giving away free phones
Meg (24:58):
Like who the heck gives away a free phone.
Billy (25:01):
Oh my God, it was so dumb .
Hey, hang these up on trees.
Meg (25:05):
hose red snowflake things.
Billy (25:07):
Yeah, you think New York's going to be okay with
that?
Yeah, all right, take thosedown.
Hey guys, sorry to email you at11 o'clock at night.
What do we?
ot 20 more days to go.
Meg (25:20):
And then it was SantaCon too.
Billy (25:28):
Oh yeah, santacon was happening.
Oh gosh, h my god.
It looks like my window rightnow looks like a ship at sea,
hurricane, like the rain ishorizontal.
You can barely see anythinghappening right now.
What is happening?
Meg (25:41):
Oh gosh, oh gosh, don't blow away in a tornado.
Billy (25:44):
ut yeah, then afterwards it's like, well, that was crazy.
Meg (25:47):
eah yeah, yeah, but they for some reason, even though I
had to go fast, had to go fastthrough that they.
They moved me to a manager onsamsung.
Billy (25:56):
hey od, it was the glory days before.
he internet was really reallygood.
They were just like did youshow up?
Great, you're a manager now.
Now, let's charge over thatline and into the brink we go.
Meg (26:14):
That was ridiculous because I had broken up with the guy in
Gramercy Park so I had to findsomeplace to live real quick.
So I ended up out inBensonhurst and I had to be at
downtown Manhattan for like 9amfor a meeting.
So I had gotten up at likeabout 6am to get there in time.
Billy (26:34):
Sure, it's hailing a lot right now, just checking in If I
go to Oz in a few minutes, justknow.
Meg (26:42):
No, please don't.
Please don't.
Make sure you pack like aballoon or something I don't
know Look a you back or redshoes, something like that, I'm
not sure.
Uh-oh, did I lose you?
Uh-oh, I am alone.
I am all alone.
All alone.
One is the loneliest number.
I really feel like zero'sprobably the loneliest, but is
(27:03):
zero considered a number.
I've been left all alone, allby myself.
D wanna be all by myself.
I'll never let go Jack.
Maybe he's not coming back.
Maybe this is the end, but it'sfitting that I ended up alone
(27:30):
and I'm going to sign off.
And if you were listening tothis by yourself, you will now
be alone.
Hi, this is Meg.
Billy (00:20):
And this is Billy.
Meg (00:21):
And we are.
Billy (00:22):
The Adopt Twins.
And t
Meg (00:24):
Welcome to a podcast from two adoptees who are navigating
life loss, moving on, andgrowing up.
Billy (00:31):
For our adopted friends we hope to bring you a familiar
point of view and for ourfriends who aren't welcome to
the complicated jungle of how weget on.
Yeah, what do you want to talkabout Loneliness?
ecause it's a universal thing,it i
Meg (00:51):
It
Billy (00:51):
Wealways alone in our thoughts, in our brains, no
matter what you kno
Meg (00:55):
YoI don't really feel like I'm alone in my brain because
there's just so much going onall the time in there.
Billy (01:04):
Really Like what kind of stuff?
Meg (01:06):
Like what am I doing with my life?
What should I have for dinner?
Why do my parents hate me?
Why did my parents leave mebehind the marketplace?
Who are my parents?
What should I do this weekend?
Why can't I be with my childall of the time?
Why am I not in Italy right now?
What should I paint my toenailsnext?
(01:28):
Why did I quit my job?
Why does my boss hate me?
Well, why can't I do this?
Why can't I do that?
Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah,blah, blah.
All sorts of things, all sortsof things.
Never alone, never alone.
Billy (01:48):
That's good.
Do you think, if all of thosejust stop being prevalent in
your mind's chatter, that itwould be better or worse for
your mental well-being?
Meg (01:55):
I think that it would depend on why it went away.
Is it because I got answers tothe questions?
Billy (02:01):
Yeah, you got answers to every question.
Meg (02:05):
Oh, I got answers to all the questions.
Billy (02:07):
And you're satisfied too.
It's not like they all of asudden spin out to a thousand
other questions.
Meg (02:16):
Yeah, I think it would be better.
Billy (02:19):
That's good, yeah, but then you'd be alone.
Meg (02:21):
I would.
I would be alone.
Billy (02:23):
Mm-hmm.
Meg (02:24):
Yes, but I don't really like being with people anyways
so.
Billy (02:34):
Shout out to your kid
Meg (02:36):
I mean he's fine because he's a part of me.
Billy (02:41):
So did you always not like being around people?
Was there a time when you gavepeople more of a chance and they
just kept letting you down?
Meg (02:51):
Maybe, but I don't really remember that time.
I remember being like 12 yearsold and telling my mother that
people were idiotic imbeciles.
And my mother said no, they'renot, not all people.
And I said see, that's thething.
The rule is that they are.
And then there's exceptions tothe rule.
And she said oh well, I thinkyou need to give more people the
(03:21):
benefit of the doubt.
And I said no, no, I don't.
So I don't really know when Imay have felt differently.
I'm sure I probably did at somepoint, but I think it was
probably before I spent thosecouple years on the street as an
infant.
Billy (03:34):
It's hard to come back from that.
Meg (03:36):
Yes, yeah, it's really hard .
Billy (03:40):
I felt you echo the sentiment of a feeling I've had
regionally when it comes to theNortheast, particularly like
certain parts of the Northeastlike Connecticut and a certain
part of Western Massachusetts,where it's an amazing moment
when you find a good one right.
(04:01):
It's somebody who is empathetic,somebody who is fun, somebody
who can carry a conversationwithout immediately turning it
all back on them, somebody thatlistens and all like the
qualities you want to have, andsomebody who can help abate the
loneliness of this horribleexistence.
And then the rest of thecountry.
(04:22):
here's like a bit of a ratioswitch I've found where the
people who suck can be a lotless in comparison to the people
who are people that want inyour life or I've wanted in my
life.
But it's interesting if theexperience is that you are in
that one particular part andsurrounding where that becomes
(04:44):
the reality, such as if you'reliving in Connecticut, it's like
no, anybody I've talked towho's moved away from
Connecticut, they're like, yeah,there's that universal thing of
like no, most people kind ofsuck.
You can't trust those.
Let me tell you a thousandstories about people that aren't
good and let me tell you aboutlike a couple of bright spots
(05:05):
that maybe in the universe onanother planet, there's like a
contingent of those types ofpeople.
It's my finding.
I was lucky enough to haveexperiences in the Navy and have
community before moving toConnecticut.
When I was having the thoughtsof, wow, most people suck.
It was wow, most people suckhere.
I've always been a very socialperson who needs people in order
(05:28):
to charge my battery.
Stimulating conversation inorder to make me feel recharg
Meg (05:35):
I feel I need to do by mysel
And if I had to choose betweenno conversation and just flat
out dumb conversation, I wouldchoose no conversation.
Billy (05:54):
What is your definition of dumb conversation?
Meg (05:59):
That was very ableist of me to say I shouldn't have said
that first off.
So I apologize.
Billy (06:05):
Apology accepted.
Meg (06:06):
But as far as the less than ideal conversation would be
people who just want to spendthe time with just idle gossip,
talk that's just surrounded oncelebrities for the entire time,
celebrities for the entire tim.
(06:28):
That talk that is justcomplaints about things that are
going on without wanting tocome to solutions and ways to
fix it.
That is what I consider lessthan ideal conversation.
I prefer a conversation whereperhaps there are things that
aren't great, so okay, let'sdiscuss those things, but then
let's find out how we can findsolutions to those things or
(06:50):
what we can do to help makethose things better, whether
it's in our own personal livesor for others.
And I like conversations.
Okay, we want to talk aboutentertainment type stuff?
Okay, but let's talk about afilm we saw or a television show
or a book we read and break itdown and discuss what was good
(07:10):
about it, what could have beenbetter about it, how that
affects society in a way, thingslike that.
It's just this idle chatterthat has just become so
prevalent in the world today.
I am good being alone.
Billy (07:29):
I agree I have felt more alone when I've been surrounded
by that idle chatter.
Meg (07:38):
What the heck was that?
Is God mad are you?
Are you being held against yourwill right now?
Billy (07:48):
You know, Chicago, things get crazy over here.
Meg (07:51):
I do, but you can't always believe it.
I saw this news thing aboutthis guy, who was apparently a
celebrity, who was beat up, andthat ended up not being true dis
Billy (08:06):
DTell me all about the celebrity gossip.
Spill the tea.
Meg (08:13):
Thank you for going there with me.
Billy (08:16):
Welcome.
Oh wow, there's a massivethunderstorm that's about to-
Meg (08:21):
That was thunder??
Billy (08:22):
Yeah, that was.
I can't describe how sunny itis to you right now.
I look south, sunny with someclouds.
I look north, sunny, with someclouds, but it sounded like a
lightning strike just happenedtwo blocks away.
Oh my Go I mean I haveheadphones on and it still
(08:44):
jolted me a little bit.
But looking at the radar, it'sone of those storms that is just
sort of forming out of nowhereand it's a biggin', oh goodnes
So we might have some otherinterruptions from the Almighty
while we talk about how much wedon't like idle gossip.
Meg (09:02):
I would think he'd be on our side with that
Billy (09:05):
pparently not.
You shall talk about theKardashians.
It is why I have created them.
Maybe God is a woman after all.
That a was very bad of me tosay, but it's just been so
(09:26):
cemented in my head from all ofthe things I've heard from the
media, from people, that thosekinds of things just come out of
my mouth.
Mayb, no, absolutely, they're they'r on it though.
They're working on it, though,they're working on it.
But going back to, like, theloneliness of wanting that and
not having, not having thatdefinitely the loneliest points
(09:49):
in my life, because all I'vewanted was was- a fan of joy and
I'm a fan of if there's somesadness that's going on, talking
through it and figuring out,just figuring out a way of I
don't know how to put it.
But moving on to the next part,that gets you closer to the
(10:16):
excitement of the little thingsof even just going out for a
walk in the park and tossing aball around Right, of the little
things of even just going outfor a walk in the park and
tossing a ball around right,mm-hmm.
mm-hmAnd when it's a consistent
barrage, like when I was inmiddle school and high school, I
was somebody who wassurrounding the self, to be
honest, with people who had aconsistent problem, because I
(10:42):
needed to have conversation, butat the same time, I don't think
people on the whole, or atleast to the degree that I
wanted in terms of quantity,liked me enough so I could
consistently bounce from personto person, to person to person.
So I would rest with people whohad these monumental,
(11:05):
devastating problems and everysingle day it was the same
conversation and there was nomovement and there was no amount
of me attempting to help,whether with a passing haiku or
phrase, or actually doingstudying on help.
(11:26):
rying to help the person wouldhelp, it would just be.
I would just be a soundingboard, right, and like that
existence and I don't know ifit's just as an adoptive person,
but that existence was rough.
Meg (11:43):
Yeah, I had similar experiences where, for whatever
reason, people seemed to feellike they could come to me an
but talk at me and dump all oftheir problems and their worries
(12:09):
and their bad energy at me, dayin and day out, and people that
I wouldn't even necessarilyconsider good friends, people
who I knew but didn'tnecessarily hang out with often,
(12:30):
and then at one point Iremember, with a few of them I
just had to just cut them offcompletely because I emotionally
couldn't handle it myselfanymore.
Billy (12:44):
It's a big moment when you do that.
Meg (12:46):
Yeah.
Billy (12:46):
, ow'd they take it?
Meg (12:49):
I don't know.
Billy (12:53):
Did you just kind of say I can't do this anymore, or did
you just stop responding?
Meg (12:59):
Just stopped responding.
Billy (13:00):
Nice.
Meg (13:01):
Yeah, yah.
So I don't know if it'ssomething about us.
Whe we just come off as Yeahsome sort of connectio because
(13:26):
they are als damaged and theycan see it or sense it or feel
it and they feel some sort ofconnection because they are also
damaged a feel that they cantrust us enough to say their
darkest secrets.
Billy (13:31):
I think we have, because we do have that feeling
underlying everything.
I I find myself making the I'mnot say mistake, but it's in my
nature to ask just a quickfollow-up question and usually
that opens the floodgates Likehow are you doing?
(13:53):
You know, I'm okay.
aving that desire to not bealone.
For a while I guess it was goodto have the attention of other
(14:15):
people, to seem valuable and toseem like I'm actually here in
this world for a reason and it'sto help you.
And then it kind of morphedinto to help people like you.
Meg (14:30):
Yeah and I think that's a big part of it is that we at
least it sounds like from whatyou're saying and from how I
think the reason for myself andI don't know about other
adoptees, but at least from thetwo of us that from us being
adoptees, we've kind of alwaysfelt like we needed to prove our
(14:54):
worth in a way.
These people needed us in someway, even if it wasn't
necessarily what we wanted inrelationships with these people,
but they needed us so we werehappy to be needed.
Billy (15:12):
Yep, and we acquiesced to the role that they designated
to us.
Meg (15:18):
Yeah.
Billy (15:19):
Yeah.
Meg (15:20):
Yeah.
Because it was better thanbeing alone.
Billy (15:32):
Yeah, truly, the last time I felt sort of truly alone
was a- You ever work a job wherejust everybody doesn't like you
?
Meg (15:39):
Oh, yeah.
Billy (15:41):
I've only had the good fortune of working that once,
but it was a tou I think.
I think it was like yeah, itwas a five-week tour that
spanned the east coast over totexas up to chicago.
It's about a team of four of usor five of us, and I don't know
(16:02):
how we got on the wrong foot,but they well, I lost some
equipment pretty early on, to behonest, for the tour hat was,
pretty specifically, I was kindof, you know, a little forgetful
and I also had my birthday onone of the days and I maybe gone
out to a karaoke bar, stayedout till 4 am, tried to shower
(16:25):
the stink off me for when we hadto be at the place, we needed
to be for 10 am and it didn'twork, but these people did not
like me and it felt bad.
I first thought.
My first thought was if peopleare feeling like this all the
time, this is agony to have aconsistency of no matter who you
(16:48):
turn to, you're not getting anysupport.
It's also tough when it's atwork, because it's your money,
because you need to work.
There's a breaking point thatyou reach when you're like I got
to leave, righ it takes a whileto get there.
So there's a lot of enduringthat loneliness I feel like.
Meg (17:05):
eah, I've definitely felt that way at some jobs and even
sometimes at school, and that'snever easy.
AI purposely, I feel may havetried to start off on the wrong
foot, to try to keep people away, to not let people get close,
(17:33):
because I was so sick of beingdisappointed in people.
Billy (17:38):
What would be your tactic ?
Meg (17:39):
There would be times, like in college in my freshman year,
I spent pretty much no time onmy floor.
I pretty much didn't get toknow any of the girls that lived
in my wing and I really triedto just avoid them.
(18:00):
And so they all became friendsand got to know each other.
And then there were some timeswhere I had some difficult
moments and I just ended upalone and that was difficult and
, looking back, you know I didthat to myself.
Billy (18:17):
Yeah, you made yourself an outcast.
Meg (18:21):
Yeah.
Billy (18:23):
And not because you didn't understand human dynamics
, but because you wanted toprotect yourself.
Meg (18:28):
Right.
It's, I guess, because Iunderstood them so well that I
played them to work in the favorthat I thought I had wanted,
and it wasn't necessarily thebest decision, I suppose.
Billy (18:41):
I mean it sounds like it sort of stemmed from a survival
mechanism coming from being backin middle school, high school,
maybe even grammar school, wherepeople in school we can't trust
.
So just cut that out.
Meg (18:56):
And then one day I had a job on my first day.
ome people were joking and Iwas like the only female that
worked there and I said to theeffect of if you don't shut up,
I'll shank you.
And they laughed and I was likeyou don't know me, you don't
know if I'm kidding or not, andthat kind of got us off on the
wrong foot.
Billy (19:18):
I would have thought that was hilarious.
Meg (19:22):
They did until I said the second part.
Then they got a little worriedan
Billy (19:27):
Athen they were like, oh cool,
Meg (19:33):
eah, I had different ways of doing it depending on the
situation.
Billy (19:36):
Yeah.
Meg (19:36):
Because I am a chameleon.
Billy (19:39):
What if you had come across You were like no, you
don't know me, and somebodychallenged you.
You think you would have become.
You were like no, you don'tknow me and somebody like
challenged yo You think youwould have become friends with
them, as opposed to themslithering away.
And would you have gone evenfarther?
Meg (19:48):
I probably would have gone even farther.
Billy (19:50):
Would you have stabbed somebody?
Meg (19:53):
Idon't know.
Billy (19:55):
Okay, cool.
Meg (19:56):
, his was a few months after I had gotten out of the
place to rest for a week, so youknow.
Billy (20:09):
when you went to your spa .
Meg (20:11):
Yes, so not really sure, could have gone either way, I
suppose.
Billy (20:18):
I'm glad we did not meet each other when we met each
other, because otherwise I'd bedead right now.
I would have been like oh yeah,here's a knife.
What do you got in you?
You think you can take thingsfar?
Oh, I'm adopted.
It's a superpower.
I'm going to out-uncomfortableyou.
(20:38):
You're going to see, You'regoing to get my blood on you and
you're going to then be myfriend.
Meg (20:42):
Yeah, if you're gonna see, you're gonna get my blood on you
and you're gonna then be myfrien Yeah, if you're not dead.
Billy (20:48):
ight.
Worth it.
Oh, she's running away.
It didn't work.
We could have done a podcasttogether.
Oh geez, hat's so funny.
But yeah, I know people getweird when you take it a little
farther.
Meg (21:02):
Yeah.
Billy (21:02):
There was a friend of mine who he enjoyed observing
people it's kind of his thing atparties.
And he at that point in my lifehe sort of pegged me down and
he said, illy, I like what youdo, I like that you go into a
place and you push everybodythat you have a conversation
with just past their comfortzone, for them to be off balance
(21:24):
, but then you bring it back andthen they don't know what's
happening, but they don'tnecessarily hate it.
It's a protective mechanism forme too, because then I can just
say, if they're not about it, Ican just say, well, they just
don't get my sense of humor.
And I'm protected because I'mthe star of my own movie right
(21:48):
now.
So I don't have to work onanything, I don't have to worry
about other people's feelingsand safety and boundaries.
Meg (21:58):
Oh yeah, I always felt safe with you, though.
Billy (22:01):
Same.
I mean, well, we started offwith being in a situation that
is literal danger, right, righit can only be safer from there,
righ But yeah, in all of ourconversations, every time we
hung out, every time we'verandomly popped up in each
other's space, it's always as ifwe're just picking up where we
(22:22):
left off spac
Meg (22:24):
It's always as if we're just picking up where we where
we left off.
Yeah, Oh, oh, but I did not,did not feel safe, but I was.
I mean, I was with you, but notwith you at that moment in the
bathroom when we went to karaoke.
Billy (22:34):
h, with that crazy fucking person.
Ye yeah, over by yConn.
Meg (22:39):
Yes, eah not feel safe.
Billy (22:42):
First time at that karaoke bar, I think, and I was
like that person liked you.
That person was like that issome exoticism right there.
She could not stop looking atyou, yeah, and you kept coming
out and being.
hen you came out of thatbathroom and you're like I'm
(23:03):
going to be here now and I'mlike, oh, OK,
Meg (23:07):
I think she asked me to try on her wig or something.
Billy (23:10):
Yeah, she did.
Here.
e thought it was just going tobe a nice, nice day of karaoke.
All you had to do was travel.
hat an hour to get to it.
Totally w, it's not likethere's karaoke anywhere more in
between, ike we had to gobeyond where I was living.
Meg (23:28):
Yeah, it was an hour to you , and then.
Billy (23:35):
Yep Gosh.
Meg (23:36):
Oh gosh, ridiculous yeah, that was the only time I felt
unsafe fter the ballet.
Billy (23:41):
That's fair.
Meg (23:42):
Englishman.
Billy (23:42):
Yeah, that was the only time I felt unsafe After the
ballet.
That's fair Englishma Yeah,exactly, Gosh.
I mean we were together on likethe literal worst program I had
ever been a part of, orespecially having to manage that
BlackBerry program.
Meg (23:56):
Oh, oh gosh.
Billy (23:58):
Where they were- You
Meg (23:59):
remember that h, yeah, oh, I was alone on that because I
did enough.
I stayed with no, no, no,samsung, I'm sorry, samsung, I
got moved to after theblackberry one.
Yeah, and that's where I wasalone because my co-manager
never came to work.
Billy (24:15):
But yeah blackberry lackberry was a trip.
I knew you were going throughyour stuff
Meg (24:23):
h yeah
Billy (24:24):
ut I was like equally like.
I guess that like also kind ofcaught like compliments our
friendship where both of us aregoing through equally stressful,
crazy situations.
Meg (24:36):
Sonic, gotta go fast, gotta go
Billy (24:38):
, otta go fast, gotta go fast.
And just like showing up andseeing each other like hips in
the night, being like iseverything good?
No, not over here either.
Anyways, hey, could everybodystop getting in line for free
falafel and go do your job.
Meg (24:52):
And we're literally just giving away free phones.
Billy (24:56):
ust giving away free phones
Meg (24:58):
Like who the heck gives away a free phone.
Billy (25:01):
Oh my God, it was so dumb .
Hey, hang these up on trees.
Meg (25:05):
hose red snowflake things.
Billy (25:07):
Yeah, you think New York's going to be okay with
that?
Yeah, all right, take thosedown.
Hey guys, sorry to email you at11 o'clock at night.
What do we?
ot 20 more days to go.
Meg (25:20):
And then it was SantaCon too.
Billy (25:28):
Oh yeah, santacon was happening.
Oh gosh, h my god.
It looks like my window rightnow looks like a ship at sea,
hurricane, like the rain ishorizontal.
You can barely see anythinghappening right now.
What is happening?
Meg (25:41):
Oh gosh, oh gosh, don't blow away in a tornado.
Billy (25:44):
ut yeah, then afterwards it's like, well, that was crazy.
Meg (25:47):
eah yeah, yeah, but they for some reason, even though I
had to go fast, had to go fastthrough that they.
They moved me to a manager onsamsung.
Billy (25:56):
hey od, it was the glory days before.
he internet was really reallygood.
They were just like did youshow up?
Great, you're a manager now.
Now, let's charge over thatline and into the brink we go.
Meg (26:14):
That was ridiculous because I had broken up with the guy in
Gramercy Park so I had to findsomeplace to live real quick.
So I ended up out inBensonhurst and I had to be at
downtown Manhattan for like 9amfor a meeting.
So I had gotten up at likeabout 6am to get there in time.
Billy (26:34):
Sure, it's hailing a lot right now, just checking in If I
go to Oz in a few minutes, justknow.
Meg (26:42):
No, please don't.
Please don't.
Make sure you pack like aballoon or something I don't
know Look a you back or redshoes, something like that, I'm
not sure.
Uh-oh, did I lose you?
Uh-oh, I am alone.
I am all alone.
All alone.
One is the loneliest number.
I really feel like zero'sprobably the loneliest, but is
(27:03):
zero considered a number.
I've been left all alone, allby myself.
D wanna be all by myself.
I'll never let go Jack.
Maybe he's not coming back.
Maybe this is the end, but it'sfitting that I ended up alone
(27:30):
and I'm going to sign off.
And if you were listening tothis by yourself, you will now
be alone.
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