Loco Tequila with Alberto Navarro and Juan Pablo Torres Padilla

Join us for a great conversation with the guys from Loco Tequila. This is a brand that is going against the grain as they look to honor the history of authentic tequila and push the boundaries for the future. To learn more about the brand, you can go to https://loco-tequila.com/

Episode Transcript

SPEAKER_00 (00:00):
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(00:21):
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more time for other things.
To create something remarkable,You usually have to be a little
crazy.
Those that persevered when theywere told it won't work.
When quitting looked easy, butyou kept going.
You are the mad geniuses.
Just like my guest today who setout to create a brand that

(00:43):
upholds the history and legacyof tequila and are doing things
a little differently.
We're going to hear their storyand see how loco they really are
on this episode of The AgaveSocial Club Podcast, hosted by
me, Doug Price.

(01:05):
Welcome to the show.
This is the Agave Search Clubpodcast.
I'm your host, Doug Price.
I recently had the honor tospend a few days in El Arenal
with my guests as I'm here withJuan Pablo Torres Padilla,
managing partner, as well asmaster tecalero Alberto Navarro
of Loco Tequila.
Guys, welcome to the show.

SPEAKER_02 (01:23):
Thank you for having us, Doug.
Thank you

SPEAKER_00 (01:24):
very much.
I had the chance to spend sometime with you guys not too long
ago as Loco has been busy.
You guys have a lot going on.
Before we get into it all, JP, Iwanted to see if you could start
Start us out and tell me alittle bit about your background
and how you got involved in LocoTequila.
Sure.

SPEAKER_02 (01:40):
And again, thank you for having us.
It was an honor to have you withus in El Arnal and it is a real
pleasure to continue thisconversation.
In terms of background, I wouldsay that the main, the most
relevant elements that I couldshare, it actually starts with
wine.
My grandfather started pouringme wine when I was seven or

(02:02):
eight years old and I ended upmoving from Mexico to France
when I was 19 years old.
I was going there for six monthsand I actually ended up staying
18 years in France.
And what happened was that whenI moved to France, I started
looking for something related tomy country, to my culture, to

(02:23):
our heritage.
I was actually studying,studying engineering, and I
spent many years working onengineering, nothing to do with
actually either tequila or wine.
But back then there was noFaceTime, there was no WhatsApp,
there was no videos.
So I wanted some link to mycountry because I was nostalgic.

(02:45):
And I started tasting thetequilas that were sold in
Europe, and it was not tequila.
It was a bad alcohol that wascalled tequila in a bottle of
tequila.
So that's when I startedresearching a little bit more
about tequila.
I did not used to drink tequilain Mexico, actually.
And I started researching andbringing bottles of higher-end
tequila from Mexico to Francewhen I spent all those years.

(03:09):
And that's how the whole passionfor tequila started in my case.
And then to make the link withLoco Tequila, a few years later,
well, actually more than 12years later, in 2012, We were
gathered with some friends andfamily with my two co-founders,
which are actually the realco-founders.

(03:30):
They honor me calling meco-founder, but actually the
ones who did the whole job werethem, Pedro and Gabriel.
And Pedro said in 2012, May2012, so it's actually now, it's
13 years now, the origin of theconception of Loco Tequila.
And he said, you know what?

(03:52):
It's a pity.
It's a pity that there's so muchtradition, exceptionality,
elegance, creativity,innovation, authenticity,
courage to do things differentlyand better in Mexico, and people
don't realize and people don'tknow that.
So he already had thought aboutthe whole thing, and he said,

(04:15):
we're going to create a tequila,and we're going to create a
tequila that will...
recover the highest levels ofpurity and quality of what used
to be produced in the fivecenturies of production of
tequila.
So we ended up understandingafter a while, and Alberto is

(04:37):
going to be way betterpositioned than me to tell you
about this because he led allthis search with the pillars
that he will tell you about, butwe ended up understanding that
we needed a different set of ofidentity elements, and that's
how the whole thing starts.

SPEAKER_00 (04:56):
JB, it seems like you're a guy that helps bring
everything together, both youand Alberto.
You guys do such an amazing jobeducating, you're so passionate.
But today, 12 years later, orwhen you joined, what are some
of the things day-to-day thattakes up your time or that you
get to be involved in with LocoTequila?

SPEAKER_02 (05:17):
I am based in the US.
As you know, I'm based inCalifornia.
And I manage and aim atdeveloping...
our presence in the UnitedStates.
We have a good and a bad problemto have, thanks to Alberto,
which is that obviously Albertois focusing on producing the

(05:38):
high level of quality withcreativity and innovation.
And we only get so much of localtequila into the US whenever
Alberto can send us and ship ussome product.
So our main work today,fortunately, is to make sure
that we allocate the localtequila that we receive in the

(06:01):
US on each of the batches ofproduction that Alberto creates
to the places where it's goingto be really appreciated and
perceived.
So my main role is developingthe team and developing the
relationships with bartenders,with chefs, with fine wine and

(06:24):
spirit shops that actually havean audience that is constantly
looking for excellence, forimpeccability, for what we call
now radical authenticity.
It works both ways, actually.
That is my main job based inCalifornia.
We have now the beginning of apresence in California, and this

(06:46):
year we're starting some...
with some allocations in Texasas well.

SPEAKER_00 (06:52):
And I know as we were there, we got to enjoy, and
we'll talk through the taquitosbecause we just got to enjoy it
and sip on it.
And when we were there, I knowyou would continue to go...
Hey, Alberto, can we make surewe get some more of this, the
Almbar?
Can we get some more of this tothe States?
Because I know a lot of it, abig following in Mexico.
Alberto, Master Tecalero, I'venot come across many people that

(07:15):
are as educated as you are withtequila producing, but more than
that, the history of tequila andagave.
You wrote the book, La Roza delTequila.
How did you become so passionateabout all things agave?

SPEAKER_01 (07:29):
It all started about 25 almost years ago, my
background, in fact, ismarketing.
And I first entered the industryin marketing.
But it was since that very sameday that I entered that I
realized that there wassomething different about
spirits in general.
As a marketeer, you're very usedto see the typical process of

(07:51):
having raw materials coming to aprocess and then coming to a
final product.
But in spirits, there's muchmore than that.
You have history, you havelegacy, you have passion, you
have love.
You have a lot of history, a lotof enthusiasm about these people
that produces in every differentsteps of the production chain,

(08:12):
any given spirit.
So it was then when I firststarted going to distilleries to
understand what I was selling inmarketing.
I just fell in love with theprocess.
And since then, I started...
going more and more often everytime I could to understand how

(08:32):
things were done, right?
So I started talking to MaestroTequileros and I started talking
to agronomical engineers andtechnical guys from the lab and
gimadores and jornaleros and allsort of people.
And all of them were becausethey noticed I was very
interested.

(08:52):
They were telling me a lot.
And I felt like a spongeabsorbing information all the
time.
And that happened every singleday that I was there.
So in the end and in time, therewas a point where I did have a
lot of knowledge.
I started to learn and do a lotof research, not only towards

(09:15):
tequila, but other Mexicanspirits and other Mexican agave
spirits.
So this is how I startedtraveling to Oaxaca and to
Sonora and to Chihuahua andlearn about mezcal and bacanora
and sotol, which is not reallyan agave spirit, but it's
similar in a way.
Understand what is raisilla andwhat is tusca and what is

(09:36):
excomunión and chichihualco andsisal and all of those that are
part of the Mexican legacy andthey're cousins of tequila, but
they have evolved in a totallydifferent way.
I also leaded a program, aninternational program, because
my responsibilities started inMexico, but eventually I had
responsibilities abroad in therest of the world.

(09:56):
First in Europe, Africa, and theMiddle East, and then the rest
of the world in education.
I started a program, it's calledthe Town Society, which
initially was an educationalprogram.
So in order to have all theseminars and all the educational
part of the Town Society, I did,along with...
A friend of mine who passedaway, sadly, Henry Besant, and

(10:18):
also Dre Masso and CharlesWexenant, a lot of research
about the history of tequila andwhatever happened in all these
500 years that made tequila tobe what we know nowadays as
tequila.
So it all started like that.
So eventually I was spreadingthe love of agave out there in
the world in places I wouldn'teven think of, in the most

(10:41):
hidden corners in Russia, inVladivostok, in South Africa,
Turkey, China, everywhere in theworld.
In time, I had the need to studya lot also about vodka and about
rum and about whiskey and aboutcognac in order to put some
other educational programs aswell.
And it was not long after thatwhen the local tequila project

(11:06):
came to me.
And at that very time, I wasvery concerned about where the
tequila category was headingwith the type of innovation that
has been running for about morethan 10 years, I would say, with
all these things that are nownormal with ultra filtrations
for cristalino tequilas, notonly using, but using the

(11:28):
additives, because you can useadditives in a more serious and
moderate way, but if you abusethem, then it's a bad thing.
All this ultra modern productionprocesses are in fact taking the
category, the identity of thoseliquids away from the original
identity of tequila.
So when we started talking aboutloco tequila, we knew from the

(11:50):
beginning that we wanted to makea legacy tequila.
So what is a legacy tequila?
Tequila that is powerful, thatis complex, that is robust, that
actually has flavors and notesof agave.
The land where those agaves aregrowing, we in fact decided to
make a terroir tequila.
And at the same time, we wantedto make a luxury tequila.

(12:12):
So putting all these thingstogether, along with the dream
of representing this type ofMexicanity that we wanted to
show to the world, this moderntequila, complex, sophisticated,
world-class Mexico that existsout there, but not a lot of
people really think of it, andrepresented through a Mexican
icon, which is tequila.

(12:33):
It was all a combination offacts that came together in the
Loco Tequila project.
Once we were clear about what wewanted to do, we started to find
a place to work.
And by then, Hacienda LaProvidencia was already about to
be purchased.
And we knew since the very firsttime that we, the very first

(12:55):
time I met Hacienda LaProvidencia and I was there, I
was surprised by a number ofthings.
First of all, some processesthat are not used or were not
used some years ago, like thetown milling stones, like the
small copper pot stills, likethe traditional ovens, the
wooden fermentation baths andall that, that were worth to be

(13:19):
restored, and we did that.
But at the same time, I saw someelements there that Back in the
60s when it closed and it wasabandoned for about 60 years, so
we're talking about lastcentury, that must have been
high-end technology elements inthe production line, in the
bottling line and all that.
So it was a sort of innovation,ancestrality and traditionality

(13:44):
that we were looking after inorder to put together this
legacy tequila, terroir tequilaand luxury tequila.
So we knew...
that it was not going to bepossible to produce right away
in Hacienda La Providenciabecause it's a gigantic project
to build a new distillery,especially not from scratch.
I've seen it.

(14:04):
It's a big project.
Absolutely.
Imagine.
And what you saw there is very,very different from what you
normally see in a tequiladistillery.
So put all that together hastaken us literally years.
So in the meantime...
We were very, very happy andlucky and honored to meet and

(14:24):
work with the Rosales familybecause they were one of the few
people who are knowledgeable intequila and they know how to
make tequila really well, whowere open enough to let us do
whatever we wanted to do withall this differentiated process
and all this craziness that wehave in production at their
distillery.
So the deal is, It's not thatthey're making our tequila.

(14:47):
It's not that they are sellingus tequila.
But we are producing inside oftheir tequila facilities, in
their distillery.
In fact, we implemented some ofthe processes that were not
there, like the Taona,Millenstone, and all that.
And we've been really, reallylucky to have this partnership
with them in the meantime, whilewe are ready with Hacienda La

(15:11):
Providencia.
But there was a point in timewhere all this was just an idea.
And when we were exposing thisidea to people who really know
how to make tequila, people fromthe CRT and even some advisors
and counselors and stuff, theywere all saying the same
message.
Beto, this, what you're saying,is going to be very difficult.

(15:32):
It's going to be barelycontrollable.
You're not going to be able toreplicate that.
If you want to follow that path,you and your team, you're...
You

SPEAKER_00 (15:41):
know, when you think of this tequila at first glance,
you could say, you know, whywould you name this higher end
quality luxury tequila brandthat's so focused on detail as
crazy?
But JP, when we first got in thevehicle together, when we
landed, you started going, yeah,but look at the people in the
world that have made a majorimpact.

(16:04):
And, you know, the Picasso, theAlbert Einstein, just like
Alberto, you're saying at somepoint somebody said, man, those
people are crazy.
Very easy.

(16:29):
understanding of how it's allconnected.
This idea of in order to looktowards the future, we have to
look towards the past.
And there's so much we can learnfrom the surrounding areas and
how things were done so longago.
Was that something that wasalways on the forefront as you
were?
Because, you know, we'll get tothe profile and everything, but
these are things that you'releading the charge on.

(16:51):
But it just seems like intalking with you and spending
time with you that you're alwaysgoing, hey, I want to look to
the past because I think we'regoing to get a lot of answers
for how things things are donein the future.

SPEAKER_01 (17:00):
We do look to the past, but also we do look to the
present and the future.
So that's very important.
You need a vision.
And the vision, as we saidbefore, is this attribute to
this genius craziness or crazygenius that we've been talking
about.
But first we need to define whatis that, because it might be

(17:21):
confusing, a little bitconfusing to understand what a
crazy genius is.
My whole point is the result ofof being a crazy genius is all
the processes that you saw andall these things that we do in a
different way and we'll getthrough that.
But it is very important tounderstand that those things
were not going to be possible ifwe wouldn't have that vision of

(17:44):
crazy genius.
And being a crazy genius firsthas this element of being bold
enough and brave enough and havethe courage to defy what's
already been established.
no matter what, to be true toyour beliefs.
And it doesn't really matterwhat everyone else says.

(18:05):
Do for what you really believeand defy what is already there
as an established way of doingthings.
So this bravery, this boldnessto defy is one of these
elements.
The other one JP was alreadymentioning, creativity.
But it's not just a regularcreativity.
It's a creativity that arrivesto say, It's a transcendent

(18:29):
creativity.
Something that even when you'renot there anymore is going to be
there and it's going to survivetime.
And the third one, JP was alsomentioned in it, is being
really, really authentic in away that you are radical.
This radical authenticness meansthat whatever you do is

(18:51):
something that you really lookafter yourself to express
yourself in whatever you aredoing.
Again, it doesn't matter whatthe rest of the world says.
This authenticity is a part ofyourself.
So all these three elements arepart of the crazy genius that we
have as a motto.

(19:11):
And all those processes that weare experiencing in fact, going
to be talking about are there asa result of this.
I

SPEAKER_02 (19:20):
want to go back to your comment on analyzing and
understanding the past.
in order to build a future withinnovation, with creativity,
with radical authenticity, withthis locura genial, with this
inspiring madness or crazygenius-ness, which, to be

(19:41):
honest, we haven't found yet atrue translation into English of
locura genial.
The meaning behind the localtequila identity is locura
genial.
One translation that I like isinspiring madness.
Another one is referring to thepeople, the crazy geniuses.
But what we did in order to dothat, as Alberto was mentioning,

(20:04):
was defining what were thedifferent elements of the
identity that we were lookingfor in the spirit, in the
tequila itself.
And one of those elements wasthe terruño, the terraro, which
doesn't exist often or doesn'texist much, unfortunately,
nowadays in the industry.

(20:26):
And that is what took us toHacienda La Providencia.
I think we went a little bit tooquick over that part earlier, a
few minutes ago.
And I want to share with you theprocess that took us there.
The Hacienda La Providencia, aswe discussed when we were there,
is located at the entrance, atthe gateway of what is a UNESCO

(20:52):
classified site.
which is called the AgaveLandscape and Ancient Facilities
of Production.
It is at the very beginning ofwhat it's called, as you know,
Los Valles, El Área de Valles deTequila, the Tequila Valleys,
which is really halfway roughlybetween Guadalajara and the town
of Tequila, which is around thevolcano of Tequila.

(21:14):
So why did we go there to thatarea first?
Because with the concept ofTerruño as being one of the
pillars of the identity of whatwe wanted to achieve, we wanted
to go back to the historicalarea of where everything
started, as you said, tounderstand, to analyze.
And we were looking for a placeto be the home of Loco Tequila

(21:34):
for a long time.
We were looking at for anongoing distillery that we could
hopefully acquire and dosomething.
And we didn't find that.
But we found this abandoned250-year-old hacienda, which
when you say it like that iseasy, but it's really a lot of
time, history, legacy,tradition.

(21:55):
And not only it was a heritageand a legacy by itself, but it
used to be, we ended upunderstanding that it used to be
the home of of what was probablythe most well-recognized tequila
in the world 100, 120 years ago,even a bit less than that.
So that's how we ended uparriving at La Providencia.

(22:17):
It took us many years, asAlberto said.
And when we were about to...
negotiate with the family whoowned La Providencia, we
realized that it was abandoned70 years ago, as Alberto said,
and as you saw, we've beenworking on the design,
conception, permitting,construction, everything in the

(22:38):
renovation for many years now,and we're about to open the
distillery sometime later thisyear.
But when we realized it wasabandoned, the second generation
didn't really do much with thehacienda in terms of production
etc.
The third generation was theowners or the owners of the
hacienda.

(22:58):
And Gabriel, the co-foundertogether with Pedro, Gabriel
negotiated for a few years withmore than 30 cousins and
relatives that were the ownersof the haciendas.
A lot of patience, a lot ofpurpose in order to get to that
place.
And my second comment withrespect to Alberto, what he's

(23:18):
not going to tell you becausehe's very modest.
Once we have the place and theconcept of Toruño, then we say,
okay, Pedro and Gabriel andmyself, we might bring...
the vision, especially Pedro andGabriel again, but we might
bring the vision, we might bringthe passion, we might bring the
personality, all of what wewant, but we don't have the

(23:41):
least idea of how to maketequila.
And obviously we want to learnand we have been educating
ourselves, but then we startedlooking for the person who had
the largest amount of knowledgeand understanding of spirits and
in particular of agave spiritsin the world.
And that's how we ended up.

(24:03):
discussing with Alberto.
As you know, he's the author ofthe La Rusa of Tequila, which is
basically the Bible of tequila.
And in my understanding and inthe understanding of most of the
people that I know that knowAlberto, he is the person by far
that knows, who knows the mostabout tequila and about the
spirits in the world, not onlyagave spirits, but the spirits

(24:26):
in general.
And as he said, he's beentraveling all over the world in
his life.
And so again, I just wanted toput that into the context
because that was the beginningof the landing of the identity.
You were mentioning, okay, whyto give this name Loco?
And Alberto gave you anexplanation of how people

(24:48):
started telling, oh, you guysare crazy if you're doing that.
At the very beginning, we didn'tknow we were going to need to do
all of that because Pedro andGabriel did not make tequila,
and me neither.
So we created the concept ofLoco Tequila.
Pedro came up with the conceptof Loco Tequila really as a
tribute and an homage, arecognition to those visionaries

(25:11):
and pioneers who dare to dothings differently, who are
really the owners of thisradical authenticity, of this
inspiring madness, and have thatcourage to innovate, to create
and to challenge the establishedparadigms, the Beethovens, the
Da Vinci's, the Van Gogh's, theFrida Kahlo's, all of them, that

(25:32):
was at the origin of the wholething.
And we believe that is a verypowerful concept.
After that, a few years later,when Alberto accepted to join
us, because I believe at thebeginning, he really didn't
believe us much about what wewanted to do.
But when he realized what wewere able or at least what we
were committed to do and toinvest, that this was now not

(25:53):
just a celebrity brand, nothingagainst that, but we were really
committed to the tradition andto the innovation and the
creativity.
That's when he joined us.
And then he spent another fewyears creating these, recreating
these ancestral methods andinnovating at the same time.
And that's when we confirmed thename because, as Alberto

(26:16):
mentioned, the industry is asmall industry and a lot of
people know what the others aredoing.
So they started telling him,like, Alberto, you're doing
doing this, this, this.
No one is going to pay$400 for abottle of tequila.
No one is going to look for thatlevel of refinement and
sophistication.
You're crazy.
It's not going to work.
So that's when we confirmed andwe said, yes, we're crazy.

(26:38):
And this is Loco Tequila withthe highest level of commitment
to that inspiring madness.
And I'm going to finish thispart with a sentence that I
love.
from one of our main brandambassadors, if you like, or
representatives in Mexico, anarchitect who has been one of

(26:59):
the greatest architects fromMexico to the world, Mr.
Legoreta.
He has a sentence that he says,the world goes on and continues
and survives thanks to the sanepeople, thanks to the normal
people.
But it only moves forward thanksto the mad and the crazy

(27:20):
geniuses.

SPEAKER_01 (27:21):
I think he's absolutely right.
Building a little bit more onwhat you're saying, JP, all this
crazy genius, all thisinspiration, all this
propositive creativity they dohave is shared through a common
conductor, which is art.

(27:42):
Art as a way of expression.
In our case, Loco Tequila...
is not only a tequila, tequiladone like local tequila is done,
is, I would say, it's like analchemy.
Because you need to understandthe science, you need to
understand about biology andphysics and a number of
scientific elements, but alsoyou need the sensitivity as well

(28:07):
as the creativity, meaning thatyou have now a sort of alchemy.
So always, and since the verybeginning, art has been a part
of our DNA.
And that is, it shows everywherein our communications, in our
packages, in what we do, thedistillery that you just
visited, that one of those tanksis a piece of art, is a working

(28:29):
piece of art by Adam Paredes,for instance, and many other
things that are happening inthere.
And even the artistic expressionis actually shown in our fields,
which you visit.
So I'm bringing in Tony Sanchez,our maestro agavero, a very
important part of the brand, onthe human side of the brand.
It's actually Tony.

(28:51):
It's not only that he's lookingafter all those almost 100
hectares that we do have withall the different cycles in
agave that you saw, and he andhis team, which is only five
people, are having those fieldsin the most best maintained way
that it can be done.
There are pristine fields and itcan be shown with the quality of

(29:11):
agaves that you have there.
But also the design of thosefields are not normal fields.
It's not the typical lines thatyou see out there.
It has forms and geometricfigures that are not common in
the industry.
And they do have, in fact, aninspiration.
You might have heard beforeabout Huachimontanes.

(29:33):
And if you didn't, well, youwere with us on the trip and we
all went to the archaeologicalsite, Huachimontanes, which is
part of the...
cultural legacy that we have inthe area.
It's not really far away fromthe distilleries on the other
side of the volcano slopes.
The shape of those pyramids, andwe're talking about a
pre-Hispanic culture, one of thefew in the world that built

(29:56):
pyramids with a round shape.
So those pyramids concentriccircles that form the pyramid
are actually inspiring Tony inhis design of the fields.
But it's not only that, it alsohas functionality.
We do that in the hills.
Remember that we're talkingabout terroir tequila.
So that means that we are goingto be planting and harvesting

(30:20):
and producing in the same spotthrough time.
Now, remember that agave is aplant that tends to exhaust the
land.
So what normally happens isafter the third time or so
agaves are planted in the samespot, a change of crops is
required.
So you need to plant thechickpeas and beans and this
kind of plants that actuallyrestore back the nitrogen to the

(30:42):
soil.
And normally you have a cycle ortwo or maybe three where you are
not planting agaves.
But we need that piece of landto have our terroir.
So what we did is the lines thatare...
the land lines that are inbetween the lines of agave,
which are called melgas, I don'thave a word for that in English,

(31:05):
are far away from each other inmuch more measure than the
standard in the industry.
So that means that when we'redone with the line of agaves and
we're going to do the selectiveharvesting, the entresaque, and
we'll talk about that later,we're going to plant in between
the and let the rest of the landto restore naturally in between

(31:25):
six to eight years.
And if there's a need to plantthe chickpeas or the beans, then
we'll do it.
But having that design helps inthat way to control the land not
being exhausted.
And second, irrigation.
That's also very important.
Remember, agave is a supplementplant and it survives during the

(31:48):
rainy season.
It sucks water.
and retains the water during thedry season.
So agaves don't really like thatmuch water.
So you have a flatland and youhave agaves and you have a lot
of rain.
You need to dig lines so thewater can actually go in between
the agave lines and not touchingthe roots because otherwise

(32:10):
they're going to get rotten.
The circles that we build formterraces.
Now, remember, agaves are notirrigated.
They rely just on the rainyseason.
And when it rains, thoseterraces allows us to have an
even irrigation of the field,having the water that we need,

(32:31):
but not excessive water.
So there's a number offunctional and even sustainable
elements that are related to theartistic design of our fields.

SPEAKER_00 (32:43):
You know, going out there, a big part of this trip
was, you know, you guys going,hey, we want you to see what
we're working on.
JP, I mean, you already said ithere that you guys, it took
years.
And I'm sure at some point, youknow, there could have been
like, is this going to happen?
I mean, this is like two blocksfrom Cascuin where historically
is where you've been stepping inand producing local tequila

(33:04):
right there at NAMM 1123.
And if you just go past it,There's this beautiful, I mean,
this hacienda, I'm trying tofigure out how you guys found
this place.
I mean, the history that's therejust tucked back a few blocks is
absolutely breathtaking.
And there's so much historythere with, was it Avelino Ruiz

(33:24):
Rosales, who is one of thosefigures that historically has
done so much for tequila.
I think they said what he wasthe first that exported tequila
to Europe via the United Statesand just, you know, And this is
history.
And you guys are continuing tobuild on that.
And I know right now we're nottesting batches.

(33:45):
You guys are still puttingthings together.
You guys have done a lot of workthere to see.
So I'm expecting to come back atsome point as you guys are
running some test batches.
But I loved the education.
I loved every step of the wayyou guys were telling us,
whether that's the elements ofthe distillery or the
innovations or things thatyou're doing.

(34:06):
But it was really...
Alberto, I mean, going to thosepyramids and seeing, I mean,
these are historical sites andseeing the round circular
pyramids and then to go outthere.
into your fields and to see, youknow, they're not all around.
You guys, as you said, you'vegot a lot of fields that have in

(34:27):
the line like we see, but tohave it circular is pretty
spectacular.
And I had the drone and I got totake some top view of it and you
just see it and go, wow, this isdifferent.
You also had kind of going upsome mountainside.
It was rocks.
You had agaves growingeverywhere.
And the rocks.
And I've never seen that.

(34:49):
You know, we joked about, man,how are we going to harvest
these agaves?
Have to get up there and, youknow, what's the thought process
in that as you guys arecontinuing to push boundaries
and improving the name Loco?

SPEAKER_01 (35:02):
Well, if you think of it, the raw material is so
important.
In order to make the besttequila in the world, you need
to have the best agaves in theworld.
That's for sure.
In the industry, there are timeswhere we have good agaves and
there are other times when youhave not so good agaves and you
have pineapples that areprobably like 10 kilograms.

(35:22):
People just take it because theyneed them in order to keep on
producing.
In our case, we startedproducing in the peak of the
agave shortage, when agave wasthe most expensive.
Even though it was expensive, wedidn't hesitate on getting the
best of the best in order tomake agaves a selective

(35:42):
harvesting.
That means not only harvestingthe whole field and wiping the
whole field, but actuallyhand-picking and selecting the
ones that are ripe in order toget them into production and
leave the others in order tocome back for them later, maybe
a year or two later, or get athird party to come and get them
to their process.
So as we were evolving with thethought of having the best agave

(36:08):
ever, we also were very, veryaware of all this little details
that you need to consider inorder to get rid of the flavors
that you don't want to have intoproduction.
Starting on how you cut thebitter honeys in the oven, which
is actually related on how muchgreen matter you have in the
agave that's introduced into theoven.

(36:29):
And that green matter has allthese waxy and oily substances
and pectins that deliver a lotof bitterness.
So the more you shave the piña,the closer you have the shaving
into the core of the plant, theless green matter you're going
to have and therefore the lessbitterness you're going to get.
In order to have the fillet ofthe fillet, if you call it this

(36:51):
way, the best of the best, youneed to, and what we do is
actually we chop off thoseleaves short in the field When
we're talking about a thirdparty, when we're talking about
our own fields, we do it onsite.
And when the agaves arrive tothe patio, we do a second
shaving in order to have thisgreenness of the agave actually

(37:15):
disappearing and have whitepiñas.
Then we chop it in half andremove the corolla in order to
have only the best part of theagave getting to production,
which is actually causing us tolose a lot of weight, but it
doesn't really matter becauseour commitment is to quality.
Now, with all this process, withall this training, of thoughts
on having the best of the best.
When we were talking about thefields and designing the fields

(37:37):
and what to do with thedifferent shapes that we have
and slopes and hills and flatsites we have on the field, we
understand and we knowbeforehand that agaves that grow
in different conditions havedifferent profiles.
So that means that those agavesthat you saw growing on the
hillside are On the slope, it'sa lot of inclination and a lot

(38:02):
of rock.
Those guys are not going to growvery robust.
They're not going to grow verybig because they're growing in
very harsh conditions.
They're growing in a verystressful way.
Therefore, they're going tobe...
They're going to be a littlesweeter, maybe?
They're going to be...
Yeah, exactly.
They're going to have differentkinds of sugars, better kinds of

(38:22):
sugars, and not much...
more concentration of sugars.
So that is actually entitled inus to work on different ways on
working our fields and ourstates or the different segments
of the state in order to havedifferent expressions if we want

(38:42):
to, which is, again, somethingnot common.

SPEAKER_00 (38:47):
JP, as we were looking at the Hacienda, you
guys gave us the tour and Idon't, know what it looked like
years ago as you guys took itover, but you guys have been
doing so much work there.
There's also a lot that Youknow, it's going to be maybe
phases or over time, but there'sa lot of things.
I mean, you guys are looking amuseum.

(39:08):
Again, you want to continue topreserve that history.
But what are some of thosethings that, because at some
point people are going to beable to come and visit it.
And it's not just come tour ourdistillery.
It's a come be a part of thisstory and this experience.
What are some of those things?
Because you were showing us, youknow, there could be some guest
rooms, there could be some funthings, tasting room, maybe in

(39:31):
ovens.
but what are some of the plansthat you guys have?
You know, I know you're workingon production and getting that
all set up, but at some point,there's going to be a real
experience center that peoplecan come to and go, man, we see
this.
Exactly, and

SPEAKER_02 (39:47):
thank you for bringing that up.
It's a very important part ofour identity as well.
It is based, as you mentioned,the production area with respect
for the ancestral methods whilehaving exceptional, innovative
techniques and equipment is themain part of it.

(40:07):
And that is the first phase.
You were mentioning phases.
Indeed, we're doing this inphases.
This first phase is going to befinalized before the end of the
year.
But there's more, indeed, as yousay.
Why?
Basically, because the identityof Loco Tequila really revolves
around what you mentioned aboutliving, experiencing life,

(40:29):
something for yourself, for yourclose ones, for the people that
you love, creating memories,creating exceptional moments
with the others.
We believe that all of thosetreasures, because at the end of
the day, they are treasures.
I mean, when we found theHacienda, to partially answer
your question as well, it wasquite stunning because We found

(40:53):
it almost as if people had leftthe day before.
It was 50, 60, whatever, 70years, and there were rooms with
the old typewriter machines.
There were rooms with the labelsthat were produced.
It was really like a museum inan exceptional state.
It was well-respected by thecommunity as well, and Alberto

(41:17):
has a good way of describingthis.
That being said, that reallytold us that...
we were really building uponsomething that was part of that
used to be part of an ecosystem,community, social, industry
ecosystem.
Let's remember that back then,Mr.

(41:38):
Avelino Ruiz was one of the topthree producers, if not the top
producer in quality.
And there's many anecdotesbetween Mr.
Sousa back then and the Vegmafamily with Cuervo back then and
Avelino Ruiz, who were the topthree producers back in the
mid-century.
So in addition to thisstate-of-the-art production
facility, we started in parallela project in another part of the

(42:03):
hacienda that you visited aswell, in order to offer what we
believe is the highest level ofhospitality.
Together with the this inspiringmadness, this radical
authenticity, and this courageto dare, we believe that

(42:23):
hospitality and being able toexperience a range of different
elements around the senses,around art, and around that
creativity, the five senses andart, are the ways to perceive,
to live, and to experience theloco tequila identity.

(42:43):
So we are in this initial phase,we are building a handful of
suites in the hacienda to beable to offer not only the
possibility of stayingovernight, but also the
possibility of doing manydifferent topics around
astronomy, experiences,educational, terroir-driven

(43:08):
topics and activities.
So that's an important part ofour project.
And let's not forget, if I maysay, as a third element, all of
this is possible only thanks tothe people that are there.
We love tequila.
We love agave spirits.

(43:28):
We love all of our elements andvalues that I have been
describing.
But let's not forget it.
We're incomers.
I mean, Alberto is not becauseAlberto and you know that all
that area matters.
exceptionally well.
And I have to say, I wasextremely surprised.
I have never been with a guestthat knew the area, not only

(43:52):
better than I, but almost aswell as Alberto.
So what do you show there interms of your knowledge of the
area and just for your audience,like Doug was going through the
highways and Doug was, yeah,we're here and this is here and
this place is here.
All these places are here.
I love

SPEAKER_00 (44:13):
the area.
I'm there quite It might havebeen.
I will be there next week.

SPEAKER_02 (44:16):
But as you pointed out back then and as we
discussed it and I was saying itearlier, all of that is possible
only thanks to the people thatare there and that actually
enable the preservation of thatas a treasure.
Alberto has a way to say that itis that in any normal or more or

(44:38):
less unfortunately, normalcircumstance.
A place like that could havebeen robbed and all the time.
I mean, imagine seven yearsabandoned and the place was
intact, was truly intact.
That talks a lot about therespect of the people, the
community, the admiration thatall the region used to have, not

(44:59):
only to this gentleman, AbelinoRuiz, who was the last family on
it after it was abandoned, orbefore it was abandoned, but
also for all of the heritage ofthe 250 years before.
So all of these, we aim athaving all of this area
gradually, hopefully benefitingand recovering.

(45:20):
It used to be, El Arenal used tobe, from what I'm reading and
understanding in some of thehistorian books, It used to be
one of the top towns, if not thetop town in the area.
But obviously when the haciendawas abandoned, the whole
economic activity went down andthe town is not the same after
seven years.
But that is hopefully the thirdphase.

(45:43):
Somehow, get also an impact inthe whole area and the whole
region.
That is a long-term, veryambitious goal, but we believe
that it's only fair to aim atwith this type of

SPEAKER_01 (45:55):
efforts.
When you put all the piecestogether, And you have what we
do in the fields, what we do inproduction, what we do with the
branding, what we do with theconcepts that we have, what we
do with the distillery, what wedo with the visitor center, what
we're going to do with thehospitality and everything.
It all ends up adding theconcepts that we have in the

(46:18):
brand of this crazy genius we'vebeen talking about, this
artistry and artisticexpressions.
Luxury, of course, but In theend of the day, it represents a
way of living.
And this lifestyle, yes, ofcourse, a luxury lifestyle, but
it's not just a regular luxurylifestyle.
Of course, it's not show-off oranything like that.

(46:41):
It's not something that you justwant to put on the face of
people.
It's something that we thinkthat we're aiming for.
For these people who willunderstand us are going to
enjoy.
Of course, they're going to beable to supply that for
themselves.
To be honest, we're talkingabout a lot of elitism.
It's loco tequila.

(47:02):
Let me be very, very honestabout this.
It's not the regular tequilathat you're going to see
everywhere and distributedeverywhere, actually accessible
to everyone.
It's not the case.
It's a totally different model.
But it's more about all thishedonism and this ways of being
happy and the delight of life.

(47:24):
And not only living that life,for yourself, but sharing with
others.
So in the end, we normally liketo say that this is how we
celebrate life.
The art of celebrating life.
That's key.

SPEAKER_00 (47:39):
Yeah, I love that you're going, hey, we're
investing in the area.
I mean, you guys have beenthere.
We all know that is the gateway.
I mean, that is such animportant area for tequila for
so many years.
And for you guys to go, hey, wewant to do our thing and do it
at the highest level, but wealso wanted to bring technology.

(48:00):
all of the other ships up.
And to go there and to see it,it is a pretty special thing.
You guys currently have threeproducts available here in the
U.S.
when JP can get his hands on it.
But I wanted to see if you couldwalk us through the production
process.
I know you've talked a littlebit about it.
We talked about in the fieldsand that double shave.

(48:21):
I mean, I saw it.
I mean, it is a tight, you saidthose white piñas.
I've not seen that and don't seethat very often.
But I wanted to see if you couldtalk us through.
And I know you've got, you know,we took some video of the
distillery, but you guys said,hey, don't post anything because
we're, this is something specialfor us that we're working on.

(48:43):
But I've got your Blanco, localBlanco in front of me.
But if you could talk us througha little bit of the production
process.

SPEAKER_02 (48:50):
Doug, this is obviously a question for
Alberto, but I'm going to dareto start with a one minute
introduction as an answer.
In my own world, in my ownperspective.
The production, the wholeproduction process that Alberto
has put together and continuesto refine is described in one

(49:11):
word.
It's art.
It's really art.
We can talk, and I'm sureAlberto is going to describe
many different things andactually many of the differences
of what he does with respect towhat the industry does today.
But I want to start by sayingthe whole production process is
art.

(49:32):
What Loco Tequila is today, I amproud to say that it is a result
of art, of Alberto's creativity,innovation, and this identity of
daring to question and challengeestablished paradigms.
I just wanted to put that as aprelude, Alberto, but obviously
you're the master, so please goahead.

SPEAKER_01 (49:52):
Thank you very much, JP.
I do agree.
that making a tequila like LocoTequila requires artistry.
And in fact, it is an art.
I do agree with that.
So if we go directly into theprocess and we start with the
feels, As I said before, inorder to make the best tequila
ever, you need to have the bestagaves ever.
So the terroir is a very, veryimportant element.

(50:14):
We did a lot of research when weknew that we were going to have
Hacienda La Providencia.
We started, we were, I was very,very familiar to terroir in the
way that people in the industryknow it, knowing the differences
that there are in between thevalley region and the Altos de
Jalisco region, knowing that inorder to have any sort of

(50:34):
terroir experience, Well, ofcourse, you need to supply only
from a particular region.
And then you have otherconceptions about terroir.
But we did understood that theArenal municipality, although
it's sitting there in the middleof the valley region, or at
least in the beginning of thevalley region, it does have its

(50:56):
own microclimate.
So as close as we are toAmatitán and Tequila, we're only
seven minutes away from Amatitánand 25 minutes away from
Tequila.
We are slightly higher inelevation.
Our terrarium is rather flat.
It's surrounded by hills andmountains.
You have the volcano over there,the Amatitán Hill, the Cascawin
Hill, and Bosque de la Primaveraout there in the distance.

(51:19):
Because it's higher, it tends tobe a little bit more fresh.
It's not as hot as Amatitán.
Amatitán is like a pothole.
And same thing happens a littlebit like that in tequila as
well.
So humidity and heat isconcentrated in a different way.
Whereas in the ArenalMunicipality, we have air
flowing in it.
in a stronger way.
So it's a little bit chillier.
It's not, you've been there,it's not cold at all, but it's

(51:44):
not as hot.
And very importantly, the soil,it does have, of course, all
this volcanic influence of theexplosion of the volcano of
Tequila, spreading all thisvolcanic materials through all
those valleys, a lot of silics,obsidian, volcanic gravel and
stuff.
The water is actually one of themost important elements that

(52:08):
differentiate that there are,knowing that the water that is
actually getting into Amatitánand Tequila Town is coming from
the volcano, from the leaks ofthe slopes in the volcano.
Remember when we went to RuinasChimulco, the spring that they
have there is actually gettingthe water from inside the hill
of Amatitán Hill.
In our case, actually, the wateris coming from 40 kilometers

(52:32):
away from Bosque de laPrimavera.
So Bosque de la Primera is infact closer to Guadalajara than
it is to El Arenal.
So all this water is filteredthrough the water tables for
about 40 kilometers in this kindof soil, not only making it
clear and pristine, but actuallycharacterizing that water in a
different way.

(52:52):
And you know that in everysingle distillery, the water
source is very, very importantbecause that characterization is
actually going to play a role inthe profiling of the product.
So Terroir, very, veryimportant.
Second, the quality of theagave.
Not only needs to come from theterroir or our definition of

(53:14):
terroir, which is the El Arenalmunicipality, but it needs to be
not necessarily the oldestagave, but the highest quality
and sugar concentrations that wecan get in a way that we are in
fact having access bricks thatare barely unreachable for many

(53:34):
other producers.
The average in bricks in theindustry, we're talking about
25, 23, 26 sometimes, but thereadings that we get is normally
38 or even closer to 40 bricks.
That's a lot.
And that only happens becauseour harvesting crew, leaded by
Tony Sanchez, is making thisEntresaque that we call the

(53:55):
selective harvesting.
He goes to the field and heanalyzes the plants, the signs
of maturity, Even if it's theleaves, the central leaves that
are shorter than the otherleaves and the outside of the
plant, the spots that you mighthave on the base leaves, the
color of the plant.
When you chop off one or twoleaves, these red spots that you

(54:18):
might get, which is actuallystarch, naturally starting to
convert into sugar, those aresigns of maturity.
So he does select and handpickthe ones that are right, and he
leaves the others out there inthe fields untouched.
So we can come back later forthem.
Not only that, we do the secondshaving that you saw, which is

(54:38):
pretty uncommon.
It's not standard.
On top of that, we remove thecogollo.
So starting by that, we have theinfluence of the terroir with
the best of the best in agave.
So all that goes into atraditional masonry oven.
We don't use pressure.
We don't use autoclaves.

(54:59):
autoclaves work in a much moreefficient way than masonry ovens
because those doors are closedin the case of the autoclaves
and pressure is increasingbecause you can achieve much
more temperature with higherpressure.
Those agaves are cooked in,depends on the autoclave, in
between 8, 12 degrees 15 hoursnow the masonry oven which is

(55:22):
what we use is actually a verylong process of roasting and
cooking it takes about threedays and uh you're probably
asking yourself why is that imean why are you waiting wasting
so much time in cooking agavewell time matters the more you
have, all those physical andchemical processes that occur

(55:43):
during the cooking processactually result in a much richer
integration of flavors.
So it's more richness in flavorsand a much better integration.
Something very similar to whathappens when you cook for the
Christmas dinner meal and youeat that same food the day
after, once you reheat it.

(56:05):
you did have the time to have amuch better integration of
flavors.
And normally, that's better thesecond day, the day after.
So it is then when we startsplitting our different
processing to differentproduction lines, and we'd have
different ways of extracting thesugars, the more ancestral ways,
the Taona milling stone.
Taona milling stone actuallymacerates the fibers It doesn't

(56:28):
really wash away the fibers andthe juices.
It doesn't separate them, butit's much more rather like a
maceration.
Just to put things inperspective, it would be
something similar to make aguacamole with a molcajete,
right?
With a mortar and pestle.
You don't bang the agave veryhard.

(56:49):
You don't extract that much ofthe oil as you would do if you
do it automatically with amachine.
Again, you have a much moreintense flavor when you are
having tequila that isextracted, actually sugars that
are extracted with the taona.
But at the same time, having therolling meal, which is a totally

(57:10):
different process, whichactually washes away the fibers
from the juices, rinsing,squeezing and rinsing again and
so on until at the end of theprocess you have just the juices
and dry fibers which areactually discarded and going
into fermentation.
What you get from there is muchmore fresh herbal notes which

(57:32):
are actually desirable in orderto have a balance in between
intensity and deep agave notesand freshness.
and herbaceousness.
Along with the terroir you havea very very specific profile
already there.
Now on top of that we once againsplit all those processes into
different types of fermentationhaving Fermentation in ceramic

(57:55):
tanks, or actually cement tanks,stainless steel tanks, and
wooden fermentation baths.
By the way, the woodenfermentation baths that we are
using, we restored them from theold Hacienda La Providencia.
And the yeasts, this issomething that we learned from
Ciatech.
The yeasts that used to workback then, 100 years ago in

(58:16):
those tanks, when thedistilleries stopped working,
those yeasts didn't really die.
But they actually managed to getinside of the pores of the wood
and remain there in a dormantstatus as if it's like a sort of
hibernation.
And once the new livingconditions were given with
temperature and heat and waterand all that, they came back to

(58:39):
life.
And in fact, we rescue back anold yeast strain from 100 years
ago that plays along with theenvironmental yeasts at the
facility that we are working atthis moment.
Having wooden fermentation beds,having stainless steel tanks,
having cement fermentation, it'sdifferent types of temperatures,

(59:01):
the way that the product iskept, the way the
microbiological environmentworks is different.
And hence, you have, andtherefore you have a different
result out of it.
Now, if on top of that, youconsider that some of the
processes are using only thejuices, some others are using
alcohol, the fibers are well aswell and sometimes the fibers

(59:24):
are loose fibers and some otheroccasions the fibers are
restrained and contained intoarpillas which is a sort of a I
would say a type of a sack thatacts almost as if it was a very
large teabag those results areonce again very very different
so at This moment, we arekeeping the process separately

(59:47):
and they go again separatelyinto distillation in small batch
production with copper potsteels.
Small batch allows us to have amuch better control of the
distillation, the temperature,the pressure, the cuts in the
heads and the tails andeverything.
And The fact that we're usingcopper, well, copper, it is more

(01:00:08):
expensive than stainless steel.
It needs much more maintenance.
It gets worn in a faster way.
So eventually you're going tospend much more money on copper,
but it does have anelectrochemical affinity to trap
sulfur compounds, which arenaturally present in the
fermentation processes.

(01:00:28):
So in order to have a cleanerproduct, of course, you rely on
how you do the cuts of the headsand details and how you do the
alcohol selection based ontemperature and the different
evaporation that you have of thedifferent types of alcohols with
different types of temperatures.
But remember, distillation isnot perfect.
We're not living in space.

(01:00:48):
This is planet Earth.
So you have the carryover aswell.
Having copper with thiselectrochemical affinity and
knowing that it attracts thesulfur compounds, the smell of
sulfur, which is not pleasant,is actually taken away and
remains there as a plaque in theinside of the coils or the

(01:01:09):
inside of the pots in the copperpot stills.

SPEAKER_00 (01:01:12):
Weren't some of those pot stills, they did not
have a coil?

SPEAKER_01 (01:01:16):
Yeah, the ones that you saw are different.
The principle is exactly thesame, the condensation.
And you need to have pipes thatrun alcohol in form of paper,
which is hot.
And the inside of that condenserhas cold water.
So you have the contact of coldwater with the hot alcohol.
But instead of having a coil,you have pipes that go up and

(01:01:39):
down.
So it's much more efficient, butthe result is actually the same.
This

SPEAKER_00 (01:01:44):
yeast strand that you really brought back to life,
this, I would imagine, was notsomething that was at...
Caskween distillery.
So as you guys are testing,you've got some new things that
you're going to be trying and itcould, I mean, fermentation, the
yeast, I mean, that, that playsa large role in, in flavor and

(01:02:06):
things like that.
But is that something you go,Hey, we're going to, we're going
to try it.
We're going to play around.
I know you've got someexperimenting.
I met Berto from your team therethat, you know, he's, he's been
right there next to you, uh,really executing of you going,
Hey, this is, this is what needsto be done.
Are you guys going going to gothrough a series of these tests
and you go, hey, we're going totry this yeast strand and see

(01:02:27):
what it does for that finalprofile.

SPEAKER_01 (01:02:30):
Yeah, absolutely.
We're facing a massive challengeand I'm not joking.
It's really massive.
We need to actually get theprofile that we do have now in a
different distillery with adifferent environment and
different, I mean, theequipments are similar, but
they're not the same.
They're new for starters.

(01:02:50):
So we need to curate all theseequipments and we need to get
them to work and everything.
There's a number of things thatwe need to do before we produce
local tequila during the trials.
But the biological part of theprocess is very, very important.
So all this microbiologicalconsortium that lives today, a
distillery where we areproducing, needed to be actually

(01:03:12):
activated.
analyzed, evaluated, and thegists needed to be actually
isolated.
So we know that we're going toneed actually to inoculate at
the beginning the gists that weare using nowadays, including
the gists that we actually gotfrom the old wooden fermentation

(01:03:34):
baths.
in order to manage to get thatimpregnation of the
microbiological environment intothe new distillery and see if at
some point we can actually stopinoculating or not.
That doesn't really matter.
The important thing is actuallyto get a product that is as

(01:03:57):
closer as it can get to what weare doing nowadays with the same
quality or higher.
So that's actually thechallenge.
It's not something that's goingto happen in a day or two.
It's going to take a while andit's not something that's going
to be easy.

SPEAKER_00 (01:04:12):
Well, this Blanco, I've got this Blanco here.
It's delicious.
It's, I mean, that earthiness,that minerality of in the
valley, all that, but there's acreaminess with this as well.
Through and through, this is adelicious Blanco to sip on.
You guys have another Blancothat is pretty unique.
What can you tell me about that?

(01:04:32):
Right.

SPEAKER_01 (01:04:33):
So the Blanco that you're having, you're now trying
Loco Blanco.
And the whole idea about LocoBlanco is actually to bring back
the original identity to tequilainto that proposal.
So this is why you're having arobust, complex, intense sample.
A lot of agave in there.
Yeah.
A lot of cooked agave, but alsoa lot of freshness.

(01:04:53):
There's a lot of herbaceousness.
In fact, you have fresh herbalnotes as in mint, as in
eucalyptus, but also you havesome Mediterranean herbal notes
like basil, like rosemary.
And in fact, you do havesomething that is a little bit
more pungent, like a greenpepper or something like that.
Now, along with that, you havethe minerality that you were

(01:05:14):
talking about that's comingactually from the terroir,
something like dry salt whereyou have freshly poured rain.
Petrichor is the right name forthat aroma.
A hint of citrix and a hint ofspice as well, like white
pepper.
That's Loco Blanco.
And that's the more traditional,the more powerful, the more
legacy profile that we have.

(01:05:34):
And it's all about the intensityand the power.
Now we have also Loco PurosCorazones, which is the one that
I have here on my right hand.
And that's also a BlancoTequila.
But it is very different.
What happens is that all thisthat we did with Loco Tequila,
with the process and everything,was very, very experimental.

(01:05:56):
In a way, Loco Tequila is stillvery experimental.
We still keep on going with theexperimentation and the
innovation and everything.
So at some point, we askedourselves, okay, we've heard of
all this stuff.
speech.
A lot of brand ambassadors andsales executives and people from
marketing have in differentspirits talking about the heart
of distillation and getting ridof the heads and the tails and

(01:06:18):
chopping a big chunk of theheads and the tails.
And everyone does that.
Everyone cuts the heads and thetails in accordance to their
financial needs and theirprofiling needs and their
quality needs.
And You can have a little bit ofhere and that in all the
different options that you haveout there in the market.
But the fact is that everyonecuts the heads and the tails

(01:06:41):
somehow.
And there's a lot of people thathave been talking about, hey, we
focus on the heart ofdistillation.
Yes, well, that's for sure.
Everyone focuses on the heart ofdistillation in a bigger chunk
or in a smaller chunk.
But what normally people don'tknow is what happens...
to the heads and the tails thatare chopped away in the

(01:07:02):
industry.
We're not only talking abouttequila, we're talking about
cognac and rum and whiskey andthe whole spirits industry.
And not a lot of people knowthat the heads and the tails
normally are reintegrated.
That's the common, the normalthing to do.
Once again, because we're livingin planet Earth and the
distillation is not perfect, soyou might have missed in the cut

(01:07:23):
some alcohols that you needstill want to recuperate or
recover.
So normally they are redistilledand reintegrated into the
following batch that goes intothe distillation process for the
first time.
Sometimes it's a lather, meaningsecond distillation goes into
ordinario and ordinario goesinto the dead musts or sometimes

(01:07:46):
directly into the dead musts.
So we asked ourselves, what ifwe do for the very first time,
not only a tequila, but a spiritwhere the heads and the tails
are not And to be honest, I didhave an idea of what might have
happened, but I was not reallysure because no one has ever
done it.
And I feared I was going to getsomething that is probably going

(01:08:09):
to be very neutral, somethingsimilar to a vodka.
But then again, remember, I dohave the advantage of the crazy
processes that we have with avery, very wide selection and
options to choose from withtaona, milling stone, the
rolling mill, the fermentationwith the wooden bat and all that
with fibers and everything.
So I can also play with theformulation, although the

(01:08:32):
distillation is not using theheads and the tails.
So the result is in fact purocorazón.
What happened is we do have Allthe notes and the characters of
legacy tequila must have.
You do have the agave.
You do have the greenness, theherbiciousness, the green notes.
You have much more fertility.
You have much more florality aswell.

(01:08:54):
But in fact, Loco Puro Corazónpresents the blanco tequila, the
class as a whole in a in such anelevated way of refinement and
finesse that it has never everseen before.
So this is why it's actuallycalled Puro Corazón.
Puro Corazón is not a marketingname.

(01:09:15):
It's a technical name.
The pure heart of thedistillation without the
integration of the heads and thetails.

SPEAKER_00 (01:09:21):
When you first tried it, what was it like when you
guys first tried it?
And you said, you know, becauseyou said I had some hesitation,
reservations.
But the first time you guys weretogether and trying it, what was
that like?

SPEAKER_01 (01:09:34):
I ran several trials.
Some of them didn't work, butothers did.
So eventually I ended upformulating in a different way.

SPEAKER_02 (01:09:43):
I was going to tell you, I can share the other
version behind my scenes atleast.
Because I remember, I mean, justas a reminder, I live in
California.
I've been here for the past nineyears.
So all of this process was, yes,originally...
conceived by Pedro and Gabriel.
And again, they kindly considerme a co-founder, but they were

(01:10:06):
the ones really leading the job,especially first to find
Alberto.
And then once they foundAlberto, I was going to Mexico
quite often and Pedro was comingand sharing all of these samples
and all of that.
But I do have the other versionthat I think is quite funny.
So I'm going to share it withyou guys.
So, and it started with LocoBlanco.

(01:10:27):
with Locoblanco that you talkedabout at the beginning.
Because after, I don't remember,two or three plus years that
Alberto went back and forth withall of those changes, ancestral
methods.
And I remember Pedro bringingsamples to the U.S.
just for us to try and me goingto Mexico.
At the beginning, it wasobviously difficult and it was
not at all something that justcame up like that the first

(01:10:50):
time.
It was a lot of work, effort,and trial and error from
Alberto.
But at the end of Locoblanco, itwas...
success everyone was extremelyhappy great feedback from all of
the people in the industry it'samazing it doesn't exist today
anywhere else and everyone wassuper happy and Pedro Pedro told

(01:11:11):
me he came back and his way oftelling the version at least it
was like he came back andchallenged Alberto Alberto also
was super happy, obviously, withLocoblanco because it was an
amazing product that doesn'texist.
I believe, as of today, it stilldoesn't exist, anything like
that in the industry.
But then Pedro came and said toAlberto, again, at least that's

(01:11:33):
the way she used to tell methat, and she said, Alberto,
this is amazing, but we have notcreated anything.
We have only recreated...
have not created, we recreated,which has a huge value because
it doesn't exist in theindustry.
So it was a creation, but it wasa recreation of what existed a

(01:11:54):
hundred, a hundred plus yearsago.
And so, if we wanted to getsomething even more pure, more
unique with a true creation,innovation of something that has
never existed in the industry,even in the past 500 years or
whatever.
And that's when Alberto wentback and did all of what he
described for the process to getthe heads and the tails removed,

(01:12:19):
the titra, and experimentingwith all of that.
And then, obviously, after, Idon't remember, Alberto goes, 12
to 24 months, I guess, to thatpuro corazón, which was actually
quite short after all, afterhaving done already loco blanco.
And then they came and Iremember the first time Pedro
tasted a sample of puro corazónwith me of that kind of

(01:12:41):
finalized version.
And it was just surreal.
Honestly, it was surreal becauseit was...
really that authentic agaveterruño flavor that Blanco has.
But with this texture...
pleasurability and finesse andrefinement that puro corazón

(01:13:01):
has, that we said this shouldnot be considered a blanco
because people willmisunderstand it.
People will not believe thatthis is a blanco because what
the category is of blanco todayis not what puro corazón is.
So that's why, even though it istechnically a blanco because
technically it's not aged, Iused to say people in the U.S.,

(01:13:22):
our guests, our clients, it istechnically a blanco but it is
more refined and more subtlethat many añejos or extra añejos
just without the old part of it.
So that was my version of thefirst times we tasted Puro
Corazón.

SPEAKER_00 (01:13:41):
Yeah, it was delicious.
And to understand it and to sitwith it.
And you guys were very generousthose couple of days where there
was always a bottle of it on thetable to where we could enjoy.
You had an incredible team.
The guys that you work with for,again, making sure we had a
great experience.
They served us so well.
And we'd always have threeRiedel or tequila glasses.

(01:14:05):
And you really had to be on yourgame because if you finished
one, one of those guys would beright there filling it up.
And I'm going, whoa, whoa, I'mstill working on this one.
I want to enjoy this one beforeyou already refill me.
But sipping on it was delicious.
And for you guys to go, hey,we're going to do something
different.
We're going to really get to theessence of this and get to the

(01:14:26):
heart.
And JP, you were telling us onthe trip and Alberto just said,
hey, this is not a gimmick.
This is not just a name.
This is The pure heart.
This really is what it is andreally delicious.
Time will tell if any of thatever makes it into barrels to
see if if I know, Alberto, youhave experimented.
And I know that that that crazygenius in you wants to continue

(01:14:51):
to push and go, well, let me trythis.
Let me try this.
It's like, you know, you youlook over the hill and go, well,
I wonder what's going on overthat hill.
I want to go over there and see.
And I think that's how your mindworks.
I want to continue to push.
and go, well, what if we didthis?
What if we did this?
So really a treat to spend a lotof time with.
And then rounding it out, youguys have a delicious Reposado.

(01:15:14):
And what you're doing with thebarrels, this Loco Ambar, this
is the Reposado, absolutelydelicious, some special barrels.
What can you tell me about that?

SPEAKER_01 (01:15:26):
Well, in the end of the day, if you really think of
it, it's all, not only for LocoAmbar, but all of the Loco
Tequila expression is daring todefy what's there, being
authentic, being original, andbeing creative.
Of course, when the time ofhaving a local...
yeah, a reposado in theportfolio, uh, arised, I knew I

(01:15:49):
was not going to do whateveryone else does.
You know, that 98% or even moreof the industry in tequila uses
the typical white American oak Xbourbon cask.
And it is not that I did that.
I didn't experiment with that.
I did.
Uh, I in fact did, uh, bringsome, uh, barrels from Buffalo
trace.

(01:16:10):
I still do have someexperiments, uh, back there in
the cellar with plantains andeven with some neo-American oak.
But I wanted to go way beyondthat.
And of course, in order to makean experiment, you need to plan
for that experiment.

(01:16:30):
So a few years ago, I broughtvery different kinds of casks
from Europe, from the Americas,from Asia, some of them were new
some others were previously usedin something else different
levels of charring you knowdifferent different variations
in different casks.

(01:16:51):
And I, of course, startedexperimenting with the different
liquids that I do have.
Loco Blanco, Loco Puro Corazón,and some other Blanco liquids
that I do have out there, backthere in the kitchen.
So eventually, I started torealize there were some samples,
some casks that were workingbeautifully for a reposado.
But I was not happy in a hundredpercent.

(01:17:14):
I mean, they were fantastic, butI was still not fully happy.
So then I realized that if Istarted playing with the blends,
the synergy that I was going tobe able to achieve was much more
as a result than what I couldget from a single barrel in

(01:17:35):
terms of expressiveness and interms of profiling.
Long story short, I selectedfour rare, uncommon or not very
normal, or as well, one of themis a cask that is not used by
anyone else, not even in thewhole industry.

(01:17:57):
I mean, it's not talking onlyabout tequila, but the rest of
the industry as well.
So I took a cooperage that worksin Ireland and makes a cask,
that is first used for an Irishwhiskey, triple distilled.
And you know how the traditionaltriple distilled whiskey is in
Ireland, a lot of buttery notes,a lot of cereal notes, a lot of

(01:18:21):
bready elements there.
But once they're done with thatcast, they take it also in
Ireland to a microbrewery to...
aged stout beer.
So from the stout, I'm gettingall these chocolate notes, all
these cocoa beans, roasted cocoabeans, all these story facts
that play along with theprevious use in whiskey.

(01:18:44):
And I bring it to Mexico andfill it with Loco Blanco.
The second cast, I brought itfrom Spain.
Of course, it had to do asherry.
But it's not just a regularsherry.
We're not talking about Olorosoor Fino or Manzanilla or
anything like that.
We're talking about PedroXimenez.
So we all know about the qualityof Pedro Ximenez and the type of
attributes that kind of grapeactually delivers in the process

(01:19:06):
and the maturation and the agingand everything.
So this is why I get a veryspecific type of frutality of
very ripe white grapes that arepacified, almost like raisins,
but it does have a hint ofmedicinal notes as if you were
walking through a Europeanprayer.
Something like that.

(01:19:27):
Once again, I bring it to Mexicoand fill it with Loco Blanco.
Different aging, differenttimes, different everything.
So it's separated.
The third one is coming fromPortugal.
It is a port and it's a townstyle.
So being such a sweet town,style of port and because we're
talking about a red variety ofgrape we have a lot of dates we

(01:19:50):
have a lot of plums a lot ofregular raisins dehydrated
apples and apricots and such youknow the typical christmasy kind
of notes that you get that youget normally from port and the
fourth one is a cask that ismade with woods coming from the
Lavos region in France so it'snot used in anything else it's

(01:20:15):
new and that type of oak beingfrench oak but specifically from
there is very very spiced sojust as any other oak the french
oak is going to deliver somevanilla and some caramel and all
that but this one has a lot ofclove uh it does have a lot of
bergamot it has a lot ofcinnamon even some black pepper

(01:20:36):
it's very very much into thespicy uh notes so playing With
the right proportion, the rightamounts, the right percentages,
with all these differentforecasts, and the right times,
depending if it is the firsttime that I use a cask, the
second one, or the third timethat I use a cask, I normally
give a little bit more time asthe cask is used more and more.

(01:20:59):
And after a third time, I'm donewith the cask.
I make the blend in order tomake loco amber.
So this is a reposado expressionnot to be found in the market
because of the complexity andthe exoticity and the uniqueness
of these different casts.
You might have realized when youtried Loco Ambar for the very

(01:21:22):
first time that it almost feelsas if it was an Añejo, but it's
not the case.
It's a reposado.
So technically it's into thatclass.
But not only that, theprofile...
It's not something that you evertried before.
And second, the agave profile,the tequila character is not
lost to the wooden contribution.

(01:21:43):
That's very important for me.
So to keep the agave character,but actually get the best from
the different casts inexpression and the wooden
contribution in a perfectbalance.
So there's not a single notethat will overpower any of the
other notes.

(01:22:03):
It's very complex and there's alot of things going out there
with loco ambar.
Many, many differentexpressions, but they play along
in a very well balanced way.
It's very round.
And very importantly, not onlyfor loco ambar, but for any of
the loco tequila expressions, Iuse no additives.
So no glycerin, no sugar, no oakextract, no natural flavors, no

(01:22:28):
nothing like that.

SPEAKER_02 (01:22:29):
And to complement Alberto's talk, what Alberto is
saying, he mentioned somethingvery important that I believe is
linked to the original intent ofthe regulatory aspect of Añejo
Reposado.
Talking under your control, youboth guys here, but I believe...

(01:22:51):
In order for a tequila to becalled reposado, it has to be
aged between 2 and 12 months.
Given what has happened in themarket in the past many years,
that the demand has been goingup, up, up, up, up in volume,
the industry has been trying tokeep up with the volume and
rushing to provide more and moretequila, almost in many cases,

(01:23:16):
unfortunately, to the expensesof So the vast majority of the
reposados do the minimum, do twomonths.
What Alberto is doing is reallywith respect to the original
essence of the regulation, whichwas, guys, play with anything
between two months and 12 monthsand get the best out of that.

(01:23:36):
And that is the essence of thereposado.
It is not beyond 12 months to becalled an añejo, but it is way
closer to what the industryconsiders to be an añejo because
the same way the industry, mostof the times, unfortunately,
goes only with 12 months.
for an añejo because that's theminimum that they need to do.
And again, there's this rush tofill the volume.

(01:23:58):
So that is why at the end of theday, not only is closer to an
añejo of what the industryexperiences today, but also it
is closer to the to the essenceof what the initial regulatory
body meant.
But, okay, let's play andexperiment and create with
anything between 2 and 12months.

(01:24:20):
That is an important aspect ofAMBER.
Together with the fact that Iwant to emphasize what Alberto
mentioned at the end, the mostimportant point is that the
essence of the agave is stillthere.
In many of what unfortunatelyhas happened with this rush to
fulfill the demand of thevolume, we forget that tequila

(01:24:44):
comes from an agave spirit andshould be the result of a
terroir, a minerality, the agaveitself, that often,
unfortunately, it's overwhelmedand completely covered by...
oak in the best of the cases andadditives in the worst of the
cases.
Oak in the best of the cases, ifit really someone ages it, but

(01:25:07):
it is with too much oak or withan oak that is too powerful for
the agave.
And additives, because as weknow, many people in the
industry go that way, not evento wait for the aging.
But that's an important pointfor amber, for local amber.

SPEAKER_01 (01:25:20):
To make a different kind of comment, JP and Doc, to
be honest, I do respect therules.
And I play with the rules.
But I'm not really that worriedabout the rules.
I'm not really concerned aboutthe rules.
For me, loco ambar is locoambar, not arreposado.
It's just loco ambar.

(01:25:41):
And it's a way of expression.
It happens to be legallyarreposado.
But I don't really care iftomorrow I make an añejo and it
comes out in a much more clearliquid.
And I still call it with adifferent name.
And if it is an añejo or not anañejo or an extrañejo.
To be honest, it's much more,from my point of view, to having

(01:26:05):
the authority of having an alfortequila, if I'm not really
missing the point in thetranslation from Spanish to
English, as opposed to playingwith the...
rules of the CRT when it comesto naming your product.

SPEAKER_00 (01:26:26):
Yeah, that ombar was delicious.
I mean, the different barrels,the depth of flavor was
absolutely delicious.
Entire lineup is really, reallygood.
Now, it is expensive.
And we talked about that.
I pushed on you guys on some ofthat.
But there's a lot that goes intothe process and that higher tier
price point.

(01:26:46):
But the good news is that Youguys have such a big and loyal
following that pretty mucheverything that you produce
barely even makes it to the USbecause in Mexico, they all buy
it.
So there's a lot of people thatthey see.
And we talked about this.
It's getting them to see whatyou guys are doing.
You're not just going, hey,we're trying to make a tequila

(01:27:07):
just for the sake of making atequila.
There's something bigger thanjust making a tequila.
And it is something veryspecial.
And there's this luxury.
So the entire lineup isabsolutely delicious.
Guys, thank you.
Thank you for an incredible fewdays in El Arnal where we got to
spend time together, have greatconversations.

(01:27:29):
I do a lot of these trips and Ido a lot of these trips with
different brands and I'm verythankful and I'm humbled that
you guys would even ask me.
But this trip was soeducational.
This trip was to really spendtime with you guys and to
understand the why as to whatyou guys are doing and why
you're doing it.
So thank Thank you for thattime.

(01:27:50):
Thank you for coming on the showand explaining and walking us
through.
I'm excited to see as time goeson with this hacienda, as you
guys are bringing it back tolife, really is truly special.
And Alberto, maybe towards theend of the year, as you guys are
doing some test batches, man, itwould be an honor to get back
down there and just see what youguys are doing.

(01:28:11):
Because that distillery, onceyou're up and running and
everything is dialed in that Iknow you're going to spend time
on- And it's going to be, yeah,it's going to be very, very
special.
Loco-tequila.com is the websitefor people that want to learn
more about the brand.
There is in the U.S., there aresome opportunities to purchase

(01:28:32):
through the website.
Is

SPEAKER_02 (01:28:33):
that correct?
The different discussions thatwe had about the expensive or
not expensive, because that'sobviously a debate in the

(01:28:54):
industry, and I'm glad youpushed that conversation.
A lot of people make expensivetequilas for positioning
purposes and just for brandpurposes.
And as I mentioned to you, thisis not...
Not only this is not the case,but as what Alberto was saying

(01:29:16):
was a very good example.
Alberto is creating, forexample, Loco Amber.
It happens to be reposado, buthe's creating Loco Amber.
Same thing with the pricing.
We're creating what we believeshould be, has been, and will be
the best tequila in ourunderstanding.
And fortunately andunfortunately, fortunately it is

(01:29:38):
feasible, unfortunately it costsa lot.
It costs a lot becauseeverything is manual, because
there's a lot of details in allthe processes that are extremely
personalized and really takencare of manually, as you saw
yourself in the fields andobviously in the distillery as

(01:30:00):
well.
And it's like when I say toother guests or people, whether
it's in tequila or in wine,excellence matters.
is not inexpensive to build.
And if you are committed toexcellence, you need to be ready
to pay that cost.
So yes, there is a small margin,but as I remember when we were

(01:30:22):
in the car driving from theairport to El Arenal, I shared
with you the math of a bottle,of the cost of a bottle.
And as you might remember, therewas really not that much margin
after all.
It is really the cost ofproducing it.
And I'm going to close this partwith, I believe I shared this

(01:30:43):
with you, but I'm not fullycertain.
I was having a discussion withone of the persons in the wine
world many years ago that Irespect and admire the most, the
wine critic and editor ofBloomberg.
And she was telling me, okay,JP, what do you say to people,
whether it's in wine or intequila or in whatever, what do

(01:31:04):
you say to people that tell you,hey, you can produce, in that
case it was wine, but you canproduce wine that is very
similar, almost as good as forconsiderably less price.
Obviously, she was testing mebecause she knows that we're
committed to excellence.
And then I told her, yes, thatis correct.

(01:31:25):
You can produce tequilas, wines,whatever, that are almost as
good for considerably lessamount of money.
The curve of cost, as I'm sureyou know, the curve of getting
to that final price which isnever final because you can
always do better, but the curveof getting to the marginal

(01:31:48):
increase in quality and purityand identity is exponential.
So if you were to translate itinto numbers, just for the sake
of explaining this probably moreeasily, going from, let's say,
70% quality, obviously youcannot translate it like that,
but just for the sake ofexample, going from 70% quality

(01:32:10):
to 80% quality, costs less thangoing from 80 to 90.
And that costs less than goingfrom 90 to 100.
So, yes, it is more expensivethan the average, obviously, but
it is really our commitment toto compensate every step of the

(01:32:31):
process on a manual way.
All the people that are actuallythere that you saw taking care
of the agaves, then thejimadores, then the distillery,
all of that.
And it really comes from thisvision that Alberto has
described of that inspiringmadness.
to really be committed to theexcellence and to doing better

(01:32:53):
every time, no matter where youare.
And yes, to answer to yourquestion, this goes a long
answer to your question, but toanswer the question in the U.S.,
we do have the possibility ofoffering some bottles through
the website.
In fact, the little that...
I always tease Alberto because Itell him that he only gives me
so little amounts to the U.S.

(01:33:16):
market.
But anyway, whatever he...
agrees to ship me to the US, Iactually first fulfill our
website with our forecast tomake sure that the most likely
scenario is that the website isalways available between every
batch.
And then whatever we have leftafter fulfilling the website, we

(01:33:38):
share it with the partners thathave kindly believed in us, both
restaurants and fine wine andspirit shops, both in California
and in Texas physically But thefirst place where we always
refill our stocks are really thewebsite fulfillment, as you
described.

SPEAKER_00 (01:33:58):
And there's a lot of states that you guys, a lot of
states that you guys

SPEAKER_02 (01:34:01):
can ship.
Yeah, the website can ship tomore than 30 states.
Any state that has a normalspirits regulation, we can ship.
There's some states, obviously,that have very difficult
regulations.
Those are more complicated.
But I believe it's close to 40states that the website can ship

SPEAKER_00 (01:34:17):
to.
There's so much that goes intoit.
And CNIS And like you guys gaveme the opportunity to see it and
to talk with you.
You do see firsthand, man, howmuch that goes into this.
So again, guys, thank you forcoming on the show.
Exciting to see the best is yetto come, to see what you guys
are going to continue to do atthis new hacienda.

(01:34:37):
It's a historical olderhacienda, but you guys are
bringing it back to life.
So I'm excited to see that overthe next couple of years.
Again, JP, Alberto, thank you somuch for coming on the show and
sharing the story of of LocoTequila.
Guys, cheers.
Cheers.

SPEAKER_01 (01:34:51):
Thank you again.
Thank you very much, Doug.

SPEAKER_00 (01:34:54):
Guys, thank you.
Cheers.
That was Alberto Navarro andJuan Pablo Torres Padilla with
Loco Tequila.
To learn more about the brand,you can go to loco-tequila.com.
Are you enjoying the show?
Do me a favor if you listen onApple.
If you would, I'd love for youto rate and review the show.
I'm Doug Price, and thanks forlistening.