April 10, 2024 • 31 mins
Today's topic is something I was guilty of in my past: the moralizing of healthy behaviors.
Whether you have moralized healthy behaviors before or had someone do this to you, this episode is for you!
Let's delve into the damaging belief that there are 'good' and 'bad' foods and that foods can only be placed into these two boxes.
This oversimplification can lead to self-judgment when you eat 'bad' food or self-righteousness when you eat the 'good' foods, which is not a beneficial mindset.
This episode helps healthy habit moralizers ask themselves, "Am I trying to make myself feel better by looking down on this other person?"
We will discuss food affordability and access and how often these things impact the ability to eat certain foods or have certain lifestyles.
My main takeaway from this episode is that moralizing creates shame, as seen in people of all ages.
By the end of the episode, whether you are moralizing healthy behaviors or have someone in your life who is doing this, I have tools that you can implement into your life to steer away from moralizing and ideas for creating boundaries with those people in your life.
.....
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hi and welcome to the Air we Breathe.
I'm your host, heatherSayers-Layman.
I'm a National Board CertifiedHealth and Wellness Coach,
certified Intuitive EatingCounselor and Certified Personal
Trainer.
I help you get organized andconsistent with healthy habits,
without rules, obsession orexhaustion.
The Air we Breathe the findingwellbeing that works for you is
a podcast created to help youestablish a trusted foundation
(00:22):
of doable, healthy habits andsmart self-care skills that can
endure every season and last youa lifetime.
My guest and I will share waysthat you can focus on your
physical and mental health withpurpose, flexibility and ease.
This podcast may contain talkabout eating disorders and
disordered eating.
We minimize mentions ofspecific behaviors and numbers,
(00:43):
but it's still a topicnonetheless.
There also could be some swearsand or adult language here.
Choose wisely if those areproblematic for you.
Hi everybody, I want to dig intoday about moralizing of
(01:06):
healthy behaviors.
Once again, I've got to throwup my guilty card that I
absolutely have done this in thepast for sure.
If we talk about like food, I'mlike this is better, I wouldn't
really eat that you go ahead,but I wouldn't.
And with exercising, justfeeling yeah, I'm so disciplined
(01:26):
, I'm so good for exercisingregularly, so I'd be lying if I
didn't say that I used to use myhealthy habits to make me feel
better about myself, which is areal statement on why do I feel
this way about myself and whatis it I need to address, instead
(01:48):
of propping myself up bymoralizing all of these things.
There were definitely a lotmore internal.
It seems certainly at the time,easier to just go ahead and
(02:09):
prop yourself up, and I hadexercise for so long and focused
on quote-unquote healthiereating, whatever exactly that
means and really just made itpart of my identity, which is
(02:33):
really not helpful.
Having healthy habits as partof your identity and that's what
you get self-esteem from iscertainly a slippery slope,
because then we can get carriedaway with those habits and be
doing more than is healthy to do.
(02:55):
We can also, if somethinghappens and we can't have those
habits, then who am I?
And that's absolutely a piece,I would say, of my relationship
with exercise.
(03:15):
I owned a gym.
It was a big part of who I was,so I really got a lot from that
.
People knew me as the fitnessperson Ooh, you want a gym.
(03:43):
Oh, you're a personal trainerand I definitely pumped myself
up with that and certainly asI've gotten older and I can't
run anymore.
I can't really do a lot ofhiking.
There's just a lot in fitnessthat I can't do.
I really had to get straightwith myself that you've built
your identity around things thatyou can no longer do.
Now what?
So I do try to encourage peopleto not think that they are so
(04:04):
much because they're doing thesethings.
There's a lot to unpack whenpeople do.
But I wanted to talk today aboutthis piece if you are doing it
as well as if you are receivingit, because now and probably
(04:25):
just because I was such a turkeywhen I hear it or people are
doing it in front of me, I justhave no patience for it.
So if we're looking at food andnutrition, this is absolutely
everywhere, because food andways of eating are good or
(04:48):
they're bad.
It's so black and white.
This is completely social mediaoriented, because when I
started in fitness that would be34 years ago it wasn't really
that much of a thing.
I watched people around mecertainly changing their diets
(05:16):
and at different times I did thesame, especially like in
undergrad, like in a veryunhealthy way.
I don't know if I talked aboutit as much I think I don't think
so, but I would have anybodyfrom Indiana University from
1989 to 1993 correct me if I'mwrong, but this good or bad is.
(05:40):
It's more new, I think, andit's so deeply entrenched as a
belief system and find meanything that doesn't uphold
this, because this really fitsso easily with people like stuff
(06:00):
to fit in two buckets it isgood or it is bad.
So therefore, pizza, oh, whatbucket does it go into?
That depends, is not a greatanswer.
It goes into the bad bucket.
And Twinkies, which bucket doesthat?
I don't know.
It depends, because am Ienjoying a Twinkie on top of my
(06:25):
general diet?
Yes, did I eat 23 Twinkies inone day and now have completely
disrupted my entire GI system?
Maybe that's not so good.
Anyway, I think that thisreally gives people a lot of
(06:47):
identity of I'm a good eater andyou can get a lot of applause
for being a quote unquote goodeater.
And even certainly in my mostdisordered days where I wouldn't
, couldn't eat food that wasbeing served and either didn't
(07:10):
eat or brought my own, or theapplause for that was stunning,
which now I look back and I dohave a debilitating eating
disorder.
So, thank you so much.
I appreciate you watching me.
There is a lot of literature nowabout how harmful this is to
kids.
People try to teach their kidsabout nutrition because they
(07:34):
think it's going to make themmake better choices.
That goes in quotes as well,and that is absolutely not true.
It creates anxious eaters, kidsthat feel confused around food
or when they're in other spacesthey might start binging on food
(07:55):
that they're not permitted tohave.
It is so harmful to kids.
I really can't emphasize thatenough, and I know people think
that they're doing a great thingby teaching their kids what's
good and bad, and you couldn'tbe doing a worse thing, honestly
, because although kids willabsolutely moralize and with
(08:20):
their differing cognitive levels, they will say that if I'm
having this bad food, I am bad,and that creates shame, creates
embarrassment, it creates hiddenbehaviors.
They're doing things in secretnow because they don't want to
be shamed, because they startcreating their own narrative
(08:41):
like that.
This means I'm bad and theywill still do it, but really
hide while they're doing it.
So again, I think it's importantto obviously look at what you
are doing around food.
Are you turning your nose up?
Is that inside of?
(09:02):
I wouldn't eat it, but you goahead and maybe that's around
foods you don't like, likesomebody's literally eating
sauteed mushrooms in front of me.
I wouldn't eat it, but you goahead just because mushrooms are
disgusting and they grow on thedark, moist sides of trees.
Can't say any more aboutmushrooms, but I think it's good
(09:23):
to cue into.
Where am I being snooty aboutthis and is that something that
I would be better off without?
Am I trying to make myself feellike a better person by looking
down on this other person?
Super easy to fall into and nothelpful to create that identity
(09:47):
for yourself around food,because anytime we're using
anything to feel better aboutourselves or, more importantly,
to feel better than other people, that is a slippery slope and
we see that in politics and youcan see how polarizing that is
and how awful that is for oursociety, where people are
(10:11):
constantly needing to feelbetter than other people.
I think one piece that I used tonot really identify with, but I
was reminded somebody had apost on LinkedIn the other day
and it was very cringy talkingabout maybe we don't need
obesity drugs.
(10:31):
We need to change our in thisterm, obesogenic environments.
I just can we not?
That feels very unnecessary,anyway, and one of the comments
was just short bursts of, eatreal foods, don't eat any sugar,
(10:52):
just the whole thing that youcan imagine, just protein and
vegetables, and don't eatanything with more than three
ingredients, just the wholething.
And for me, the superior-nessthat wafts off of that is always
mind-numbing, because oneabsolute reality that exists is
(11:16):
people can't afford to eat likethat.
I would have said that 10 yearsago, I knew that 10 years ago
and today, because most of thetime my husband does the grocery
shopping like we go to Costcotogether, so I don't see the
prices as much, and when I go Iam stunned stunned at how much
(11:39):
stuff costs.
And then there are people outthere that are just like oh, you
just need to eat real food andI would never eat like frozen
vegetables, I only eat fresh.
Good for you Again.
Why do you need that?
Why do you need to feel betterthan other people for your food
choices and their food choices?
(12:00):
Food access is also a hugeproblem.
Not everybody has a big marketnear them.
Many people are stuck shoppingat the only places that are near
them and that could be dollarstores that have limited,
different choices, and I thinkthat looking at access and
(12:22):
affordability is kind.
It makes you cognizant of whatis going on around you, even if
you live in a financially stablebubble.
Consider that a privilege,because they're absolutely
people right now.
Right now, it's about the timethat school gets out.
They're not going home to asnack and they might not even
(12:43):
have dinner.
There are kids, certainly thatthe only place that they can eat
is at school.
There are adults going hungryso they can feed their kids.
The problems with access andaffordability to food are
prolific.
(13:03):
Several years ago, as part ofChristmas this is when I was
single and just had my two kidswe donated a couple years in a
row to their schools and theywere in different schools their
school's lunch programs, becausewe just wanted to do something
(13:25):
more altruistic as part of ourChristmas celebration.
And one school let kids keepeating and I can't even remember
what their debt was.
It was really high.
So I gave what we were planningto give and a little dent in
that, and the other school didnot.
They didn't let kids owe morethan $8.
(13:48):
If they owed $8, they couldn'tget anything else.
So that was it.
Sorry, you're hungry.
And when I paid off the debtfor the entire school, it was
only about $300.
And then they sent a note toeach kid that had their debt
(14:09):
paid that they could come andget food again.
I had no idea.
I just was under the impressionthat then school would let a
kid keep eating, and that's nottrue at all, and that's
something that you could findout in your own neighborhood,
because absolutely you can calland ask how can I pay off some
of this debt for these kids?
(14:30):
Because I can't imagine tryingto be in school and to be hungry
and not be able to focus andwatching other kids just get
bags of chips and fun stuff andyou're just hungry society.
It's so tacky and unaware toreally be moralizing like what
people are eating when they'reabsolutely people who are
(15:05):
starving.
Have you ever felt like thedo-it-yourself approach to
improving your healthy habitsends up doing nothing except
making you feel overwhelmed,guilty and defeated?
Have you been struggling tofind sustainable routines that
work for your responsibilities,lifestyle, budget and personal
(15:26):
preferences?
You don't need more rules,influencers or structured
programs.
Let me help you discover whatyou want, what works for you and
how to maintain healthy habitsduring the ever changing
circumstances of your life.
If you're ready to createsystems that stick head to
heathersayerslaymancom backslashhealth dash coaching and click,
(15:48):
let's do it.
The whole foods and this manyingredients and I never eat
sugar, which like good for you.
That's great if that'simportant to you, but having
food morality is really missinga large piece of a much bigger
(16:09):
conversation that we all shouldbe having.
The next piece is really howmoralizing creates shame, and I
talked about it a few minutesago, but at all ages.
But man, oh man, does it startwith kids?
When there is a, why are youeating that?
(16:29):
And oh, you shouldn't be eatingthat, or strictly prohibited.
I absolutely know of people who, oh, my kids aren't allowed to
have this, they can never havesoda, they can never have
birthday cake.
We leave birthday parties earlybefore they have the cake.
And I'm just like, are youtrying to create somebody who
(16:53):
binge eats?
Because all signs point to, yes, you are really just creating a
forbidden fruit, but then alsoso much shame around the other
choices so that when that kiddoes partake in those things,
which is a normal activity, it'snormal to be able to just go
(17:16):
and have a soda, yeah, and thenmove on and live your life.
If you're creating a forbiddenfruit, then absolutely you're
going to create somebody whocan't stop drinking soda because
they don't know when they'reever going to get it again,
because it's prohibited.
So I think it's just somethingto really be cognizant of.
(17:38):
Even if you're not sayinganything, do you have a face?
Is there a tone, is there acertain thing that you say that
makes people bristle about it?
Because this also affects ifyou're an adult, affects other
adults, if you're like oh mygosh, that's so many French
(17:59):
fries, are you going to eat themall?
Wow, I could never eat thatmany French fries.
I would never want to eat thatmany French fries, whatever it
is.
So I think, also with themoralizing piece creating shame.
I see that with exercising aswell, whether somebody's
pontificating on quote unquotethe way to exercise or they are
(18:25):
just feeling good about whatthey're doing.
So it's easy just to crap onwhat everybody else is doing.
That can create shame in peoplethat then maybe feel like
they're not doing enough andthey're not doing this right,
and especially if somebody is ina larger body, those
conversations are rampant aboutwhat that person should be doing
(18:47):
and that they're probably notdoing enough or they're not
changing their body fast enough,you're not making their body
small enough, and then thatcreates a lot of shame, which
shame is not a motivator to havehealthy behaviors.
Shame is a motivator to havebehaviors in secret, to hate
(19:08):
yourself, to feel bad aboutyourself, and shame doesn't
create positive changes.
So that's one piece that Ireally wish people knew is or
looking down on someone eithermakes them think that you're a
real jerk or makes them feel badabout themselves, or both.
So it's not a win-win situation.
(19:33):
It's really mostly a lose-lose,because people don't respect
you when you're making them feelbad.
And back to food morality itreally contributes to eating
disorders.
Again, like I said earlier, itcreates so much anxiety around
food.
And I will say when I wasdiagnosed with thyroid disease
(19:58):
and then changed my eating andwe'll just say it was next level
, clean eating, not that's goodat all, it wasn't.
I thought I was doing the rightthing for my health because I
listened to a lot of fearmongering people about what I
should not be eating and I cuttons of stuff out and I
(20:21):
developed an eating disorder andI couldn't stop cutting things
out.
I couldn't just go to a regulardinner.
I stayed home a lot because ifsomebody wanted me to go
somewhere then I've got toresearch the menu online what
can I get, what can I not getand a lot of people applaud that
(20:43):
type of behavior.
It is disordered, it isdebilitating.
It has so much anxiety withinit because you're always afraid
of doing the wrong thing, so youmake your world smaller and
smaller until you literally justcan't go out.
You sit at home and eat yourown food or don't eat food.
(21:05):
So I really caution thistsk-tsk, this tone, this good or
bad talk, because itcontributes to a lot of
different eating disorders.
I know so many people that grewup in a dieting household,
which was fairly typical, andtheir relationship with food is
(21:31):
so fraught and it causes them somuch distress that they either
overcorrect into the eatingdisorder category or they're
just like forget it.
I'm not even going to worryabout food or my health at all
because it reminds me so much ofall this traumatic experiences
(21:57):
that I had around food, dieting,health when I was younger.
If I had a dime for every womanthat I know that did Weight
Watchers in elementary school,middle school, high school I
would have a lot of dimes.
Kids don't need to be on diets.
(22:18):
Nothing good happens with it.
Diets nothing good happens withit.
And the last piece, which I'vealso alluded to, is the
moralizing makes you reallytedious to listen to.
I again, I was the tediousperson, so I will own that when
(22:38):
I am listening to people and itis the good or bad.
If you say naughty in mypresence, I'll probably lose my
mind.
That is a word I just cannotwith.
But people will talk about ohmy gosh, I'm being so bad, I'm
being so naughty and you're not.
(22:59):
You're having a Dairy Queenblizzard and living your life,
it's fine, you're not.
You're having a Dairy Queenblizzard and living your life,
it's fine.
But depending on where theother people are around you, if
you're moralizing, all of thesedifferent things could be
triggering shame for them, theycould feel embarrassed or if
it's bringing up bad memories,they're just not going to like
(23:21):
listening to you at all.
And I know many people thatstruggle with this relationship
with their parents now becausethey can't stop talking about
dieting.
And I was just having aconversation and somebody was
talking about how their parentis 72 years old and still
(23:44):
talking about dieting.
So I think that understandinglike I'm talking about something
that makes me look really goodmight not be the case.
And that goes back to if I'mneeding validation and so I'm
(24:05):
like bragging about either myworkouts or my food and have an
edge to all of it about howgreat I am and how great I'm
doing.
That would absolutely make youtedious to listen to.
That can also go for workouts,where they're like I just don't
understand how these peopledon't work out.
Hello, go take a walk.
(24:27):
Again, if we go back toprivilege, not everybody lives
in an area that's safe to walkin.
Not everybody has the physicalability to walk.
There are a lot of disabilitiesthat somebody can't just go
take a walk.
They might not have the time orability because they might have
small children, they might becaring for a sick family member,
(24:50):
it just might not be top oftheir list.
Versus actually focusing onunderstanding why, what is that
person going through?
Do they need anything?
Do they need some help?
I think having the wherewithalto understand not everybody has
(25:15):
your life, not everybody hasyour drive, people might not
care about what you care about,which is fine.
So I just want to make peoplecognizant of like bigger
pictures, and I was just blessedwith this information from
(25:39):
doing a lot of health coachingand listening when I'm talking
to somebody about what aboutsome roasted vegetables.
That's a good way to make yourveggies early in the week.
And she's like I live in atrailer and I just can't turn
the oven on, no matter what timeof year.
It just makes the whole thinghot.
I was like, oh, shut my mouth.
So we all talked about steamingand microwave steaming, which
(26:01):
some people are like.
Oh my gosh, that's so awful tosteam your vegetables in the
microwave, okay.
But I think having the empathyand understanding why people
might not have all of thesesuper healthy habits you have,
but also the biggest thing isthat we can all mind our own
(26:22):
business, because it's notreally for me to dissect
somebody's life and understandwhy they're doing something and
why they're not doing something.
None of that is my business atall.
But I would encourage you tolook and see oh my gosh, am I
doing this?
(26:42):
And then, if you are somebodywho's on the receiving end of
this, there are some things andI love a snappy comeback, but
there are things you can do tosignal subtly or more forcefully
that you're not interested inthis moralizing conversation.
Always just a good eye roll,maybe a sigh with it.
(27:06):
That's a message when somebodyis talking about it.
I'm not saying that any ofthese are created by a therapist
that focuses on effectivecommunicating techniques.
I'm just saying they're optionsfrom me.
You can say a statement like Idon't really attach morality to
(27:28):
different healthy habits.
I don't necessarily think itmakes somebody good or bad, and
that's a statement.
You can ask someone like what isit that creates this interest
in moralizing food or exercise?
And you is really interested inthings being bad or good?
(27:49):
Hopefully create someself-reflection, maybe
conversation Also.
Do you mean for this to makeyou sound better than these
other people?
Just a clarifying question Areyou meaning for this to sound
snide?
Because maybe people don'trealize?
(28:12):
I'm sure that you could ask methat a while ago and I would
have been flummoxed and probablyembarrassed.
Oh my gosh, because that waswhat I was doing.
You can also just change thesubject Weather is my jam,
weather is my go-to.
Oh boy, did you see?
Next weekend it's supposed todrop like 20 degrees.
I know, can you believe it?
(28:33):
That's always like my nice safeconversation which,
unfortunately, living in Phoenix, it's hot.
Safe conversation which,unfortunately, living in Phoenix
, it's hot, and so then you'rejust like going to be another
scorcher tomorrow.
Yeah, I know, can you believeit?
Sunblazing, who knew.
But there are things that youcan say.
Or if saying it in the momentdoesn't work for you, is it
(28:57):
something that you can text tosay that I really struggle when
you talk about this.
It makes me feel uncomfortable.
I think that you might bethinking negative things about
me, but you could put some stuffout on the table.
I love some communication tojust clear up Am I
(29:17):
misunderstanding?
Or to let someone know.
This is hurting my feelings andI definitely know a lot of
people who have createdboundaries with their parents
about this.
I don't want to talk about whatyou think about what I eat.
I don't want to hear anythingabout what my exercise program
(29:40):
and have you weigh in on that?
I'm not interested in theseconversations and, again, that
might be hard in person.
But you can absolutely text,email, write a letter, send up
some smoke signals, but get yourpoint across because your
feelings are important, yourfeelings are valid and if this
is really causing you a lot ofdistress, you can absolutely
(30:04):
communicate that to somebodyelse that this topic is not one
I want to keep having.
All right, I hope that thishelps.
Hopefully it's interesting.
Maybe you see yourself in itand maybe you don't.
I definitely am just talkingabout my experience as a
moralizer and how it all camecrashing down, but I hope you do
(30:30):
give it some thought, becausewe obviously don't want to be
hurting people with things thatwe're saying, and I personally
like to be the light and I wantto be supportive and I want to
be a person that's helpingsomeone feel better about
themselves, about where they are, about whatever they've got
(30:51):
going on.
That is what delights me.
All right, keep thinking aboutit.
I will see you next time.
Thanks so much for listeningtoday.
Do you know what would bereally fun If you popped over to
my Instagram at Heather SayersLehman and dropped me a DM and
let me know what topics you wantme to cover?
(31:14):
Something bugging you,something holding you up?
Please just let me know and Iwill tweak some content and get
an episode out just for you.
As always, please follow show,or you can leave a five star
review on Apple or Spotify.
That would be fun to see in thenext episode.
Hi and welcome to the Air we Breathe.
I'm your host, heatherSayers-Layman.
I'm a National Board CertifiedHealth and Wellness Coach,
certified Intuitive EatingCounselor and Certified Personal
Trainer.
I help you get organized andconsistent with healthy habits,
without rules, obsession orexhaustion.
The Air we Breathe the findingwellbeing that works for you is
a podcast created to help youestablish a trusted foundation
(00:22):
of doable, healthy habits andsmart self-care skills that can
endure every season and last youa lifetime.
My guest and I will share waysthat you can focus on your
physical and mental health withpurpose, flexibility and ease.
This podcast may contain talkabout eating disorders and
disordered eating.
We minimize mentions ofspecific behaviors and numbers,
(00:43):
but it's still a topicnonetheless.
There also could be some swearsand or adult language here.
Choose wisely if those areproblematic for you.
Hi everybody, I want to dig intoday about moralizing of
(01:06):
healthy behaviors.
Once again, I've got to throwup my guilty card that I
absolutely have done this in thepast for sure.
If we talk about like food, I'mlike this is better, I wouldn't
really eat that you go ahead,but I wouldn't.
And with exercising, justfeeling yeah, I'm so disciplined
(01:26):
, I'm so good for exercisingregularly, so I'd be lying if I
didn't say that I used to use myhealthy habits to make me feel
better about myself, which is areal statement on why do I feel
this way about myself and whatis it I need to address, instead
(01:48):
of propping myself up bymoralizing all of these things.
There were definitely a lotmore internal.
It seems certainly at the time,easier to just go ahead and
(02:09):
prop yourself up, and I hadexercise for so long and focused
on quote-unquote healthiereating, whatever exactly that
means and really just made itpart of my identity, which is
(02:33):
really not helpful.
Having healthy habits as partof your identity and that's what
you get self-esteem from iscertainly a slippery slope,
because then we can get carriedaway with those habits and be
doing more than is healthy to do.
(02:55):
We can also, if somethinghappens and we can't have those
habits, then who am I?
And that's absolutely a piece,I would say, of my relationship
with exercise.
(03:15):
I owned a gym.
It was a big part of who I was,so I really got a lot from that
.
People knew me as the fitnessperson Ooh, you want a gym.
(03:43):
Oh, you're a personal trainerand I definitely pumped myself
up with that and certainly asI've gotten older and I can't
run anymore.
I can't really do a lot ofhiking.
There's just a lot in fitnessthat I can't do.
I really had to get straightwith myself that you've built
your identity around things thatyou can no longer do.
Now what?
So I do try to encourage peopleto not think that they are so
(04:04):
much because they're doing thesethings.
There's a lot to unpack whenpeople do.
But I wanted to talk today aboutthis piece if you are doing it
as well as if you are receivingit, because now and probably
(04:25):
just because I was such a turkeywhen I hear it or people are
doing it in front of me, I justhave no patience for it.
So if we're looking at food andnutrition, this is absolutely
everywhere, because food andways of eating are good or
(04:48):
they're bad.
It's so black and white.
This is completely social mediaoriented, because when I
started in fitness that would be34 years ago it wasn't really
that much of a thing.
I watched people around mecertainly changing their diets
(05:16):
and at different times I did thesame, especially like in
undergrad, like in a veryunhealthy way.
I don't know if I talked aboutit as much I think I don't think
so, but I would have anybodyfrom Indiana University from
1989 to 1993 correct me if I'mwrong, but this good or bad is.
(05:40):
It's more new, I think, andit's so deeply entrenched as a
belief system and find meanything that doesn't uphold
this, because this really fitsso easily with people like stuff
(06:00):
to fit in two buckets it isgood or it is bad.
So therefore, pizza, oh, whatbucket does it go into?
That depends, is not a greatanswer.
It goes into the bad bucket.
And Twinkies, which bucket doesthat?
I don't know.
It depends, because am Ienjoying a Twinkie on top of my
(06:25):
general diet?
Yes, did I eat 23 Twinkies inone day and now have completely
disrupted my entire GI system?
Maybe that's not so good.
Anyway, I think that thisreally gives people a lot of
(06:47):
identity of I'm a good eater andyou can get a lot of applause
for being a quote unquote goodeater.
And even certainly in my mostdisordered days where I wouldn't
, couldn't eat food that wasbeing served and either didn't
(07:10):
eat or brought my own, or theapplause for that was stunning,
which now I look back and I dohave a debilitating eating
disorder.
So, thank you so much.
I appreciate you watching me.
There is a lot of literature nowabout how harmful this is to
kids.
People try to teach their kidsabout nutrition because they
(07:34):
think it's going to make themmake better choices.
That goes in quotes as well,and that is absolutely not true.
It creates anxious eaters, kidsthat feel confused around food
or when they're in other spacesthey might start binging on food
(07:55):
that they're not permitted tohave.
It is so harmful to kids.
I really can't emphasize thatenough, and I know people think
that they're doing a great thingby teaching their kids what's
good and bad, and you couldn'tbe doing a worse thing, honestly
, because although kids willabsolutely moralize and with
(08:20):
their differing cognitive levels, they will say that if I'm
having this bad food, I am bad,and that creates shame, creates
embarrassment, it creates hiddenbehaviors.
They're doing things in secretnow because they don't want to
be shamed, because they startcreating their own narrative
(08:41):
like that.
This means I'm bad and theywill still do it, but really
hide while they're doing it.
So again, I think it's importantto obviously look at what you
are doing around food.
Are you turning your nose up?
Is that inside of?
(09:02):
I wouldn't eat it, but you goahead and maybe that's around
foods you don't like, likesomebody's literally eating
sauteed mushrooms in front of me.
I wouldn't eat it, but you goahead just because mushrooms are
disgusting and they grow on thedark, moist sides of trees.
Can't say any more aboutmushrooms, but I think it's good
(09:23):
to cue into.
Where am I being snooty aboutthis and is that something that
I would be better off without?
Am I trying to make myself feellike a better person by looking
down on this other person?
Super easy to fall into and nothelpful to create that identity
(09:47):
for yourself around food,because anytime we're using
anything to feel better aboutourselves or, more importantly,
to feel better than other people, that is a slippery slope and
we see that in politics and youcan see how polarizing that is
and how awful that is for oursociety, where people are
(10:11):
constantly needing to feelbetter than other people.
I think one piece that I used tonot really identify with, but I
was reminded somebody had apost on LinkedIn the other day
and it was very cringy talkingabout maybe we don't need
obesity drugs.
(10:31):
We need to change our in thisterm, obesogenic environments.
I just can we not?
That feels very unnecessary,anyway, and one of the comments
was just short bursts of, eatreal foods, don't eat any sugar,
(10:52):
just the whole thing that youcan imagine, just protein and
vegetables, and don't eatanything with more than three
ingredients, just the wholething.
And for me, the superior-nessthat wafts off of that is always
mind-numbing, because oneabsolute reality that exists is
(11:16):
people can't afford to eat likethat.
I would have said that 10 yearsago, I knew that 10 years ago
and today, because most of thetime my husband does the grocery
shopping like we go to Costcotogether, so I don't see the
prices as much, and when I go Iam stunned stunned at how much
(11:39):
stuff costs.
And then there are people outthere that are just like oh, you
just need to eat real food andI would never eat like frozen
vegetables, I only eat fresh.
Good for you Again.
Why do you need that?
Why do you need to feel betterthan other people for your food
choices and their food choices?
(12:00):
Food access is also a hugeproblem.
Not everybody has a big marketnear them.
Many people are stuck shoppingat the only places that are near
them and that could be dollarstores that have limited,
different choices, and I thinkthat looking at access and
(12:22):
affordability is kind.
It makes you cognizant of whatis going on around you, even if
you live in a financially stablebubble.
Consider that a privilege,because they're absolutely
people right now.
Right now, it's about the timethat school gets out.
They're not going home to asnack and they might not even
(12:43):
have dinner.
There are kids, certainly thatthe only place that they can eat
is at school.
There are adults going hungryso they can feed their kids.
The problems with access andaffordability to food are
prolific.
(13:03):
Several years ago, as part ofChristmas this is when I was
single and just had my two kidswe donated a couple years in a
row to their schools and theywere in different schools their
school's lunch programs, becausewe just wanted to do something
(13:25):
more altruistic as part of ourChristmas celebration.
And one school let kids keepeating and I can't even remember
what their debt was.
It was really high.
So I gave what we were planningto give and a little dent in
that, and the other school didnot.
They didn't let kids owe morethan $8.
(13:48):
If they owed $8, they couldn'tget anything else.
So that was it.
Sorry, you're hungry.
And when I paid off the debtfor the entire school, it was
only about $300.
And then they sent a note toeach kid that had their debt
(14:09):
paid that they could come andget food again.
I had no idea.
I just was under the impressionthat then school would let a
kid keep eating, and that's nottrue at all, and that's
something that you could findout in your own neighborhood,
because absolutely you can calland ask how can I pay off some
of this debt for these kids?
(14:30):
Because I can't imagine tryingto be in school and to be hungry
and not be able to focus andwatching other kids just get
bags of chips and fun stuff andyou're just hungry society.
It's so tacky and unaware toreally be moralizing like what
people are eating when they'reabsolutely people who are
(15:05):
starving.
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(15:26):
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let's do it.
The whole foods and this manyingredients and I never eat
sugar, which like good for you.
That's great if that'simportant to you, but having
food morality is really missinga large piece of a much bigger
(16:09):
conversation that we all shouldbe having.
The next piece is really howmoralizing creates shame, and I
talked about it a few minutesago, but at all ages.
But man, oh man, does it startwith kids?
When there is a, why are youeating that?
(16:29):
And oh, you shouldn't be eatingthat, or strictly prohibited.
I absolutely know of people who, oh, my kids aren't allowed to
have this, they can never havesoda, they can never have
birthday cake.
We leave birthday parties earlybefore they have the cake.
And I'm just like, are youtrying to create somebody who
(16:53):
binge eats?
Because all signs point to, yes, you are really just creating a
forbidden fruit, but then alsoso much shame around the other
choices so that when that kiddoes partake in those things,
which is a normal activity, it'snormal to be able to just go
(17:16):
and have a soda, yeah, and thenmove on and live your life.
If you're creating a forbiddenfruit, then absolutely you're
going to create somebody whocan't stop drinking soda because
they don't know when they'reever going to get it again,
because it's prohibited.
So I think it's just somethingto really be cognizant of.
(17:38):
Even if you're not sayinganything, do you have a face?
Is there a tone, is there acertain thing that you say that
makes people bristle about it?
Because this also affects ifyou're an adult, affects other
adults, if you're like oh mygosh, that's so many French
(17:59):
fries, are you going to eat themall?
Wow, I could never eat thatmany French fries.
I would never want to eat thatmany French fries, whatever it
is.
So I think, also with themoralizing piece creating shame.
I see that with exercising aswell, whether somebody's
pontificating on quote unquotethe way to exercise or they are
(18:25):
just feeling good about whatthey're doing.
So it's easy just to crap onwhat everybody else is doing.
That can create shame in peoplethat then maybe feel like
they're not doing enough andthey're not doing this right,
and especially if somebody is ina larger body, those
conversations are rampant aboutwhat that person should be doing
(18:47):
and that they're probably notdoing enough or they're not
changing their body fast enough,you're not making their body
small enough, and then thatcreates a lot of shame, which
shame is not a motivator to havehealthy behaviors.
Shame is a motivator to havebehaviors in secret, to hate
(19:08):
yourself, to feel bad aboutyourself, and shame doesn't
create positive changes.
So that's one piece that Ireally wish people knew is or
looking down on someone eithermakes them think that you're a
real jerk or makes them feel badabout themselves, or both.
So it's not a win-win situation.
(19:33):
It's really mostly a lose-lose,because people don't respect
you when you're making them feelbad.
And back to food morality itreally contributes to eating
disorders.
Again, like I said earlier, itcreates so much anxiety around
food.
And I will say when I wasdiagnosed with thyroid disease
(19:58):
and then changed my eating andwe'll just say it was next level
, clean eating, not that's goodat all, it wasn't.
I thought I was doing the rightthing for my health because I
listened to a lot of fearmongering people about what I
should not be eating and I cuttons of stuff out and I
(20:21):
developed an eating disorder andI couldn't stop cutting things
out.
I couldn't just go to a regulardinner.
I stayed home a lot because ifsomebody wanted me to go
somewhere then I've got toresearch the menu online what
can I get, what can I not getand a lot of people applaud that
(20:43):
type of behavior.
It is disordered, it isdebilitating.
It has so much anxiety withinit because you're always afraid
of doing the wrong thing, so youmake your world smaller and
smaller until you literally justcan't go out.
You sit at home and eat yourown food or don't eat food.
(21:05):
So I really caution thistsk-tsk, this tone, this good or
bad talk, because itcontributes to a lot of
different eating disorders.
I know so many people that grewup in a dieting household,
which was fairly typical, andtheir relationship with food is
(21:31):
so fraught and it causes them somuch distress that they either
overcorrect into the eatingdisorder category or they're
just like forget it.
I'm not even going to worryabout food or my health at all
because it reminds me so much ofall this traumatic experiences
(21:57):
that I had around food, dieting,health when I was younger.
If I had a dime for every womanthat I know that did Weight
Watchers in elementary school,middle school, high school I
would have a lot of dimes.
Kids don't need to be on diets.
(22:18):
Nothing good happens with it.
Diets nothing good happens withit.
And the last piece, which I'vealso alluded to, is the
moralizing makes you reallytedious to listen to.
I again, I was the tediousperson, so I will own that when
(22:38):
I am listening to people and itis the good or bad.
If you say naughty in mypresence, I'll probably lose my
mind.
That is a word I just cannotwith.
But people will talk about ohmy gosh, I'm being so bad, I'm
being so naughty and you're not.
(22:59):
You're having a Dairy Queenblizzard and living your life,
it's fine, you're not.
You're having a Dairy Queenblizzard and living your life,
it's fine.
But depending on where theother people are around you, if
you're moralizing, all of thesedifferent things could be
triggering shame for them, theycould feel embarrassed or if
it's bringing up bad memories,they're just not going to like
(23:21):
listening to you at all.
And I know many people thatstruggle with this relationship
with their parents now becausethey can't stop talking about
dieting.
And I was just having aconversation and somebody was
talking about how their parentis 72 years old and still
(23:44):
talking about dieting.
So I think that understandinglike I'm talking about something
that makes me look really goodmight not be the case.
And that goes back to if I'mneeding validation and so I'm
(24:05):
like bragging about either myworkouts or my food and have an
edge to all of it about howgreat I am and how great I'm
doing.
That would absolutely make youtedious to listen to.
That can also go for workouts,where they're like I just don't
understand how these peopledon't work out.
Hello, go take a walk.
(24:27):
Again, if we go back toprivilege, not everybody lives
in an area that's safe to walkin.
Not everybody has the physicalability to walk.
There are a lot of disabilitiesthat somebody can't just go
take a walk.
They might not have the time orability because they might have
small children, they might becaring for a sick family member,
(24:50):
it just might not be top oftheir list.
Versus actually focusing onunderstanding why, what is that
person going through?
Do they need anything?
Do they need some help?
I think having the wherewithalto understand not everybody has
(25:15):
your life, not everybody hasyour drive, people might not
care about what you care about,which is fine.
So I just want to make peoplecognizant of like bigger
pictures, and I was just blessedwith this information from
(25:39):
doing a lot of health coachingand listening when I'm talking
to somebody about what aboutsome roasted vegetables.
That's a good way to make yourveggies early in the week.
And she's like I live in atrailer and I just can't turn
the oven on, no matter what timeof year.
It just makes the whole thinghot.
I was like, oh, shut my mouth.
So we all talked about steamingand microwave steaming, which
(26:01):
some people are like.
Oh my gosh, that's so awful tosteam your vegetables in the
microwave, okay.
But I think having the empathyand understanding why people
might not have all of thesesuper healthy habits you have,
but also the biggest thing isthat we can all mind our own
(26:22):
business, because it's notreally for me to dissect
somebody's life and understandwhy they're doing something and
why they're not doing something.
None of that is my business atall.
But I would encourage you tolook and see oh my gosh, am I
doing this?
(26:42):
And then, if you are somebodywho's on the receiving end of
this, there are some things andI love a snappy comeback, but
there are things you can do tosignal subtly or more forcefully
that you're not interested inthis moralizing conversation.
Always just a good eye roll,maybe a sigh with it.
(27:06):
That's a message when somebodyis talking about it.
I'm not saying that any ofthese are created by a therapist
that focuses on effectivecommunicating techniques.
I'm just saying they're optionsfrom me.
You can say a statement like Idon't really attach morality to
(27:28):
different healthy habits.
I don't necessarily think itmakes somebody good or bad, and
that's a statement.
You can ask someone like what isit that creates this interest
in moralizing food or exercise?
And you is really interested inthings being bad or good?
(27:49):
Hopefully create someself-reflection, maybe
conversation Also.
Do you mean for this to makeyou sound better than these
other people?
Just a clarifying question Areyou meaning for this to sound
snide?
Because maybe people don'trealize?
(28:12):
I'm sure that you could ask methat a while ago and I would
have been flummoxed and probablyembarrassed.
Oh my gosh, because that waswhat I was doing.
You can also just change thesubject Weather is my jam,
weather is my go-to.
Oh boy, did you see?
Next weekend it's supposed todrop like 20 degrees.
I know, can you believe it?
(28:33):
That's always like my nice safeconversation which,
unfortunately, living in Phoenix, it's hot.
Safe conversation which,unfortunately, living in Phoenix
, it's hot, and so then you'rejust like going to be another
scorcher tomorrow.
Yeah, I know, can you believeit?
Sunblazing, who knew.
But there are things that youcan say.
Or if saying it in the momentdoesn't work for you, is it
(28:57):
something that you can text tosay that I really struggle when
you talk about this.
It makes me feel uncomfortable.
I think that you might bethinking negative things about
me, but you could put some stuffout on the table.
I love some communication tojust clear up Am I
(29:17):
misunderstanding?
Or to let someone know.
This is hurting my feelings andI definitely know a lot of
people who have createdboundaries with their parents
about this.
I don't want to talk about whatyou think about what I eat.
I don't want to hear anythingabout what my exercise program
(29:40):
and have you weigh in on that?
I'm not interested in theseconversations and, again, that
might be hard in person.
But you can absolutely text,email, write a letter, send up
some smoke signals, but get yourpoint across because your
feelings are important, yourfeelings are valid and if this
is really causing you a lot ofdistress, you can absolutely
(30:04):
communicate that to somebodyelse that this topic is not one
I want to keep having.
All right, I hope that thishelps.
Hopefully it's interesting.
Maybe you see yourself in itand maybe you don't.
I definitely am just talkingabout my experience as a
moralizer and how it all camecrashing down, but I hope you do
(30:30):
give it some thought, becausewe obviously don't want to be
hurting people with things thatwe're saying, and I personally
like to be the light and I wantto be supportive and I want to
be a person that's helpingsomeone feel better about
themselves, about where they are, about whatever they've got
(30:51):
going on.
That is what delights me.
All right, keep thinking aboutit.
I will see you next time.
Thanks so much for listeningtoday.
Do you know what would bereally fun If you popped over to
my Instagram at Heather SayersLehman and dropped me a DM and
let me know what topics you wantme to cover?
(31:14):
Something bugging you,something holding you up?
Please just let me know and Iwill tweak some content and get
an episode out just for you.
As always, please follow show,or you can leave a five star
review on Apple or Spotify.
That would be fun to see in thenext episode.
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