Have you ever felt torn between what you want and what everyone expects from you
Have you felt confused about how to even differentiate the two?
Today’s episode is a fun one! My two besties of a zillion years, Alison Bell and Susan Marine, join me on the pod!
The three of us talk about “Should I do this thing?” and digging deep into what drives us.
There is always something going on in our lives that we ‘could’ or ‘should’ do, and we tackle whether we should do this.
We break down the choice between desire and expectation and discover why we do the thing in front of us.
We talk about receiving acceptance from others when we accomplish things, wanting to be admired by those around us, and the drive to be exceptional.
We break down the worry that after you have completed the task on your list, you will just be looking for the next thing and that you will never actually be “done.”
We also discuss how to reframe the way you look at the things you set out to do and find the joy of the journey.
Instead of focusing on the societal pressures to do what we “should” be doing, the three of us decide that the most important takeaway is to focus on the feelings that you get from doing the thing!
…..
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
I think part of it is I too want to be approved of, I
want to be accepted, andweirdly, I think it also has
something to do with wanting tobe sort of admired if that makes
any sense.
Speaker 2 (00:14):
It makes sense to me, and one of the things that I'm
sitting here thinking issomething I've been exploring
for myself.
Is that drive to be exceptional?
Yes, and not necessarily foraccomplishment sake, though
that's in there Right, but Ithink and I think it depends on
(00:35):
your childhood and what you'rerewarded for.
Speaker 3 (00:36):
But I think as a little right and I imagine
you're the same.
Speaker 2 (00:38):
You get lots of attention and pats on the head
for when you're exceptional.
Yes, so when you do that newthing right and you achieve it
Exactly, you're exceptional.
Speaker 3 (00:47):
And like isn't that?
Speaker 2 (00:47):
rewarding.
Speaker 3 (00:49):
Hi and welcome to the air we breathe, finding well
being that works for you.
I'm your host, HeatherSayers-Layman.
I'm a National Board CertifiedHealth and Wellness Coach,
Certified Intuitive EatingCounselor and Certified Personal
Trainer.
I help you get organized andconsistent with healthy habits,
without rules, obsession orexhaustion.
(01:09):
This podcast may contain talkabout eating disorders and
disordered eating.
There could also be some adultlanguage here.
Choose wisely if those areproblematic for you.
For you, Hi and welcome to thisepisode.
(01:33):
I'm very excited because todaywe're talking about should I do
this thing?
So we all get to this pointwhere we're like I feel like I
should do this, or even like Iwant to do this, and that
becomes hard to decide, like,well, should I do this?
Do I have the time to do this?
Do I have the money to do this?
Why am I doing this?
So we're going to walk througha little more concise question
(01:54):
asking so how we can get to aplace where we're doing the
thing that feels right to us tobe doing, not an obligation or
not overwhelming, but somethingthat we're actually excited that
we want to do.
So I have two guests today, twoof my OG friends from home in
(02:17):
Indiana.
Allie, why don't you introduceyourself?
Speaker 2 (02:21):
Sure, I'm Allison Bell or Allie To my friends and
I'm a regional vice presidentfor WGU, which is a national
online not-for-profit university.
Hi everyone.
Speaker 1 (02:35):
I'm Susan Marine.
I am a professor and anacademic administrator at
Merrimack College inMassachusetts and I and very
happy to be here today talkingabout this really important
topic.
Speaker 3 (02:49):
Hmm, thanks, sue.
I always think it's interestingbecause I consider you gals
like blazer wearers, because youwork in higher education and.
I don't really have a lot ofblazers in my field, but you
guys are heavy blazer wearers.
Speaker 1 (03:06):
Depends but sometimes , sometimes, yep, sometimes a
blazer is a perfect for themoment.
Speaker 3 (03:14):
Well, it makes you look like the part a little bit
more yes, Okay.
Well, now that we've got thatout of the way, should I?
Speaker 1 (03:22):
wear a blazer.
I have one that that has umpatches on is it tweeted?
Speaker 3 (03:28):
yes, in fact it is does it have a corduroy around?
Speaker 1 (03:31):
no, it does not have corduroy around the neck next
winter yes, okay, okay, um.
Speaker 3 (03:38):
Well, we're talking about should I do this thing,
which is a topic that we haveall talked about of, like, how
am I supposed to know which?
I think this all goes back togrowing up doing things that
you're just told to do and notreally like oh well, what do you
want to do, what are youpassionate about, what are you
interested in?
And not really ever being ableto create your own dialogue
(04:01):
about what do I want to do andespecially like well, here's
what my family's done, whichalso you both are following in
your family's footsteps ofhigher education as well, which
is interesting in itself.
So I think that it's verynatural that this is hard for us
(04:23):
to decide, like, am I doing itbecause I saw somebody doing it
and it seemed like I should bedoing something like that, or is
this really like somethingthat's going to be a real value
add to me?
So we talked for a sec beforeabout our examples.
So, um, allie, what is it youfeel like you should be doing
(04:45):
right now?
Speaker 2 (04:46):
So I would like to say I could pick from a number
of things, but the thing we willfocus on today is my house, and
does it look like it shouldlook?
Is it well appointed?
How's the decor?
What about the clutter?
Just feeling overwhelmed bymaking my house the way I think
it should look?
Speaker 3 (05:08):
Excellent, because I feel like that's pretty
universal for a lot of people.
Speaker 2 (05:14):
I think it's been amped up by social media.
You see all these becausepeople put only beautiful things
on the internet, you know andyou know that.
But you still see all thiscurated imagery and it's like,
wow, my house doesn't look likethat.
Where's your mail?
Speaker 3 (05:28):
What do you do with your mail pile?
Speaker 2 (05:29):
Yeah, where's your mail basket that's three feet
tall, I don't know.
Speaker 3 (05:33):
And.
Speaker 1 (05:34):
Sue.
So I have recently undertaken aphysical challenge for myself.
In a couple of months I'll beheading over to the UK and doing
a extended walk slash hike witha dear friend of mine who lives
there along what is called theHadrian's Wall Path, and I
(05:55):
decided to do this about a yearago and ever since I've been
trying to psych myself up totrain for this event, because I
am not a particularly athleticperson.
Um, so I have been doing that,but I always feel like I should
be doing more to get ready andand the stakes feel a little bit
(06:17):
high.
So I think a lot about am Idoing enough?
Speaker 3 (06:23):
I'm not familiar with him.
I doing enough, so we'll justgo with your story.
Is there like a specificprotocol that they say you
should follow?
Speaker 1 (06:33):
Yeah, there's a few different people on the internet
that have sort of shared likeif you're going to do Hadrian's,
here's how to approach it,here's how much to walk, here's
how to build up your mileage,things like that.
Just to give a little bit ofcontext for the trail, most
people do between 10 and 12miles a day.
It's actually about 80 mileslong.
(06:54):
I'm going to do about 60 milesof the trail for a variety of
reasons, and so I know that I'mto be doing miles, several miles
, a day, and then on weekends,longer walks, and just because
of various factors, lately Ihaven't been doing the eight to
10 mile weekend walks that Iknow I should be doing because
(07:17):
the time is approaching for thewalk, got it Okay, thanks for
that clarity.
Speaker 3 (07:22):
Yes, Helps, yeah, um.
So then, ali, with the house,like, who do you feel like?
Is saying, like this issomething you should do, of the
committee in your head?
Who is raising their hand?
Speaker 2 (07:39):
I mean, isn't that what we're trying to?
I, I don't know.
No, it is something about imagethere.
It's, there are multiple thingsright, there is something about
your image, like if people wereto come over, if I were to have
you know, entertain, like, whatwould people think of me if my
house doesn't look a certain way?
So the?
(07:59):
So who is that?
Is that person that's concernedabout what people think of me?
And I guess that gets down tolike am I acceptable, am I
accepted or am I fundamentallygoing to be rejected?
There are some other elementsto that, too, which I think are
important, which is like comfortin my home.
We just did a project togetherand made my laundry room
(08:20):
functional and beautiful and Ilove it and that is a good thing
.
I wouldn't undo that and it andthere's a lot of like comfort
and joy that comes from that.
So there's that piece of it too.
That is a voice.
Speaker 3 (08:34):
Got you, which it's nice that you've already done
something, because then you'vegot something to look at and
like this feels great on theinside, like this is because you
have snapped me many times I'min the laundry room, um, because
it's also like beautifullyjoyful as well, walls or a
(08:55):
wallpaper, um.
so then you already have a like,oh, I like.
This feeling is Is that correct?
Yeah, that's absolutely correct, yeah, okay.
And then with an edge of like,ooh.
So then, because overall, whatI'm hearing you say is, um, not
as much connection, butbelonging, will I belong with my
(09:20):
clutter or will I?
Speaker 2 (09:23):
will I belong more.
You mean belonging with a likewith the group with the outside
that's potentially judging me.
Yeah, I think so.
I think that's about belonging.
Speaker 3 (09:34):
Yeah, yeah, which I think I mean obviously as little
cave people like you're notsafe.
If you're not belonging, you'renot safe and you're not
belonging right safe, and ifyou're not in community.
So it definitely makes sense.
Um, do you feel like there'sanything gendered within it?
Speaker 2 (09:53):
um, definitely, and I do like within the home.
You know, I'm the only one whocares about what the house looks
like truly, and I do feel likeI have I've healed some of this,
but over time I have felt likeit's all on me and it only
(10:14):
reflects on me if it doesn'tlook right.
Speaker 3 (10:18):
I would say you're not wrong.
I don't know who's like.
Did you see their house?
I don't know what the hell he'sdoing around, but it was a mess
.
I didn't see him pick up atowel and wipe anything off the
whole time we were there, right?
I don't know that thatconversation actually exists,
right, because maybe you're nottelling him enough of what he
(10:41):
should do or maybe you're nothurting him, but it's still like
you said ultimately yeah, okay,interesting um suzy so then, do
you have any idea, like who isthe shooter?
Speaker 1 (10:56):
so, um, I think that for most of my adult life I have
, when I look at the threads ofmy life, I think one of the
things that I have kind ofrelentlessly pursued that I
never really quite understoodthe origin of is I'm really a
huge fan of novelty, and so, andspecifically, new experiences I
(11:20):
like to think of myself as akind of free spirited,
venturesome person, and when Ihear about things that other
people do that I think soundexciting and fun, I will often
say I'm gonna do that, and Ioften jump in headfirst and do
sign up or commit to doing thatthing, and then I step back and
(11:43):
say wait a minute, what is thisgoing to require?
I think part of it is I toowant to be approved of, I want
to be accepted, and and weirdly,I think it also has something
to do with wanting to be likesort of admired if that makes
any sense makes sense to me.
Speaker 2 (12:03):
I and I.
One of the things that I'msitting here thinking is
something I've been exploringfor myself.
Um, is that drive to beexceptional?
Yes, and not necessarily foraccomplishment sake.
So that's in there right but Ithink, and I think it depends on
your childhood and what you'rerewarded for, but I think as a
(12:24):
little right and I imagineyou're the same.
You get lots of attention andpats on the head for when you're
exceptional, yes, so when youdo that new thing right and you
achieve it Exactly, you'reexceptional and like.
Isn't that rewarding?
Speaker 1 (12:38):
Right, and isn't that , ultimately, I think it also
feels like if I'm not doingsomething that makes me
exceptional, I'm not sure if I'ma valid human being.
Speaker 2 (12:50):
That makes any sense.
Where's your?
Speaker 1 (12:51):
value, yeah, like so much of my life, and has been
constructed aroundaccomplishment, yes, and I feel
like, career wise, I'veaccomplished a lot of the goals
that I set out for myself, andso now I'm kind of looking
around, going, well, what'swhat's going to make me
exceptional now?
Um, and yet I want to do thingsthat I think will make me
(13:15):
exceptional, but then I don'talways want to do the background
work they require.
Speaker 2 (13:20):
Right.
Speaker 1 (13:21):
And maybe this relates to what you're sharing
about your home that it's likewe'd like to snap our fingers
and have that all come together,but it takes a lot of work to
do those things sometimes, andand money, and money and time
and talent, and we all you knowso yeah.
(13:55):
So where's the message come from?
That it needs to be novelperson who commits to a pursuit
or a hobby or a pastime over thecourse of a life?
But I have literally jumpedfrom thing to thing to thing
kind of my whole life and interms of how I spend my time and
my interests, and lately I'vejust been really fixated on long
(14:17):
distance walking.
Speaker 2 (14:18):
I do enjoy it.
Speaker 1 (14:20):
When I do it, I'm glad I did it, but I'm also not
a person who does it regularlyenough that I can just rely on
that skill within me.
I do have to build it up again.
Speaker 3 (14:32):
Do you have a higher or lower value when you're
watching people?
They've done it for a long time, um higher lower value, Like do
you value?
Speaker 1 (14:40):
like, oh my gosh, they've done it for a long time
um higher lower value, like doyou value like oh my gosh,
they've been doing this, yes, solong, yeah.
And then I feel intimidated byit a little bit um.
So there's a couple of great umlike facebook groups, social
media groups for people, um,who've watched the trail and
other long distance trails, theel camino in spain, you know,
similar types of things, and Iactually pulled off of those
(15:04):
because I was feeling like, ohmy, I'm not where these folks
are and I'm not, I haven't putin the time they have and it's
just making me hyperself-conscious.
So, yeah, so it's like I'mdrawn to being part of that, but
I'm also not always good atcommitting to the work it
requires.
Speaker 3 (15:23):
Or interested yeah.
Speaker 1 (15:25):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (15:26):
Interested.
Yeah, I mean cause I think itseems like you're positioning it
as a negative, like oh, I'mjust really good at that, but
it's like I don't know if I wantto do that, um.
Speaker 1 (15:38):
I feel I mean, I actually feel pretty sure that
I'm I'm going to really enjoythis experience.
What I worry about is I'm goingto either not be able to do it
the way I want to do it, or it'sgoing to be really
uncomfortable for me and I'mgoing to have to come to terms
with the fact that I could haveprevented that if I had prepared
better.
Speaker 3 (15:59):
Regret from a faulty preparation.
Speaker 1 (16:02):
Exactly, exactly.
Speaker 2 (16:04):
Right.
Speaker 1 (16:04):
Well and then, it was your fault.
Then it was my fault, and Icould have done something about
it if I'd only been more.
And this is the part that Ithink is underlying all of this
is that I'm not a particularlydisciplined person, and people
don't.
Speaker 3 (16:18):
Says my friend with a PhD.
Speaker 1 (16:19):
Well, I mean but even that, like I, that came very
naturally to me.
And I'm not saying I didn'twork hard, I did work hard.
I want my advisor to know that,but I've always had comfort and
facility and ease with reading,writing and words.
This is different.
This is actually pushing myselftowards something I'm not very
(16:42):
good at.
Speaker 3 (16:45):
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to improving your healthyhabits ends up doing nothing
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(17:06):
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If you're ready to createsystems that stick, head to
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Backslash health dash coachingand click, let's do it.
(17:28):
And I think we have our sweetspots, and Allie and I have been
talking about this because Ienjoy organizing, like my sock
drawer that I made, so my sockseach fit in a square with a pair
and it's kind of like an ombreeffect as you move along, like I
dig that and I've maintained it.
It's never not looked like that.
And then when Allie and I weretalking, you were like I don't
(17:52):
even see what you're talkingLike.
What are you doing?
It looks lovely.
Speaker 2 (17:55):
It looks lovely.
If someone would do it for meevery day, I would really
appreciate it.
Speaker 3 (18:00):
Yeah, of just what's.
Like naturally I find thatnaturally interesting.
Like naturally I find thatnaturally interesting.
But like for what you're saying, like writing, like I have to
look up how to use a colon.
All of the time I don't have,because people start sub stacks
and I'm like I can talk aboutstuff but writing it I don't.
(18:20):
I don't have the skill I'veconstantly used grammarly and
she's like this is not theappropriate.
Okay, I'll change it, thank you,but I think it's almost like a
dissatisfaction ordisappointment with like well,
shouldn't I be good at this?
Like, can I be good ateverything?
Speaker 1 (18:41):
Right.
Speaker 3 (18:41):
No yeah.
Speaker 1 (18:42):
I mean, we can't be right.
And we I'm a big believer Ithink we have to push ourselves
into areas that are notcomfortable for us, because
that's how we keep growing.
So again, that goes back to thenovelty thing.
I like doing things I've neverdone before or haven't done
recently, Because I alwaysexperience growth through them.
But I also know there's a riskof being self-conscious, feeling
(19:07):
like, oh, I shouldn't havetried to do this, I can't do
this, um, so yeah, but I'vebought the plane ticket and I'm
in, so oh, I'm going I'm goingum so, ali, like if you had your
house like, looking like whatyou wanted, it's functional,
(19:30):
it's easy to maintain.
Speaker 3 (19:32):
We don't have to worry about the piles, because
piles don't happen.
Like, what would that mean toyou?
How do you think that you wouldfeel?
Speaker 2 (19:41):
I think I would love it.
Honestly, it feels like I wouldhave one less thing that's
bothering me, that's kind ofhanging over me, like you know,
not to worry on the weekendsabout what project should I
attack, because it's not reallyhow I want to spend my weekends.
So I think.
(20:03):
But I also wonder if that'sactually achievable, meaning
would I always find something tobe critical about and so that
it's not really?
I mean, there is some real inthere, like having the laundry
room be functional is a realthing and it's wonderful, but I
(20:25):
wonder because, would I everachieve it?
Or is that the unachievablegoal that I've set for myself?
Speaker 3 (20:31):
Yeah, that, once the laundry room, then you're,
you're peeking into the familyroom and you're like okay, so
let's start this up now, becauseit's well, and I think also
when it's your undertaking,because having have been at your
(20:53):
house and had somebody watch uswork was very interesting.
Yeah.
So you're, maybe are you gonnapop out, get us a smoothie or
pick us up?
No, okay, all right, we'll go,we'll go um, I think that has to
add like another layer, anotherlayer.
Speaker 2 (21:15):
I was thinking about the laundry room and how we did
it together and how that made itso much easier and it's not
like you did it.
For me it was very much a teameffort and um, but that it was
so much easier for.
And it's not like you did it.
For me it was very much a teameffort and um, but that it was
so much easier for me to get itdone because I had someone to
like work with and bounce ideasoff of.
So that does make a difference.
(21:36):
Yeah, A thousand percent.
Speaker 3 (21:38):
And shitty chat and talking about dumb stuff, um,
and like lanes, yeah, I lanes,yeah, I'm doing the shelfy
things, you're doing the painythings, um, yeah, so I think
that it definitely has to.
I would think feel moredaunting, ish, knowing like this
(22:00):
is a solo thing, it's all gonnabe me, yeah.
So of that feeling that youwould love to have, like when
your house is quote unquote done, like is there anything else
that you think ever gives youthat feeling, like, would there
(22:20):
be any other way to get that?
Speaker 2 (22:24):
I mean, I think I get that feeling in other things
that I accomplish and I, youknow, work out in the morning,
just getting a workout done,feels like, you know, there's
some of that um or something.
You know something that Iachieve at work just finished a
big strategy document, workingwith a team to pull it together,
(22:45):
and it's like at work, justfinished a big strategy document
, working with a team to pull ittogether, and it's like what
are we going to do next year,all in one page With a graph.
You told me, yes, I could notcreate the layout, somebody had
to do that for me.
It looked real ugly, but thecontent it was a team effort to
be clear, but to be the personthat got to pull it all together
and, you know, make it makesense, that's really satisfying
(23:06):
too.
So I don't know if that's whatyou're getting at, but that's
what comes to mind.
Speaker 3 (23:10):
Yeah, I think I think familiarizing yourself with
what feeling you want.
Where have I gotten that otherplaces?
Because in that also neverending piece, like, did I get
that feeling I was looking for?
How do I know if I got what Iwanted?
Because that's the other thingof like, you know these stairs,
(23:33):
or you know, well, we reallyneed to repaint, because then
you're never getting to thatpoint of, oh my gosh, this is so
enjoyable, the family roomlooks great painted.
You know the hall up the stairs.
Really good way about that.
Is it possible?
Speaker 1 (23:50):
that the doing of it is also maybe more enjoyable
than at face value.
I'm just thinking about how youwere talking about the laundry
room project and I know how muchyou all enjoy doing that,
because you did it together and,as you said, you played off
each other's strengths andthings and I'm wondering if the
(24:10):
doing of it brings you maybe alittle more satisfaction than
like.
In other words, it in your mindit seems like you're going to
be happy when this is done, butis the doing also part of that
satisfaction?
Yeah, looking at the process,yeah, and getting to make it
what you want it to be.
(24:31):
You know, there's the, there'sthat sense of it is all on you
On the other hand, it's all onyou.
Speaker 2 (24:39):
Right, you can decide , right.
I don't know if that's no.
I think that I think there'ssomething there.
I think that's part of it is.
What am I focusing on?
Like what?
What is it that I actually amtrying to get out of this and
that whole?
I mean we could get meta onthis, but that whole concept of
being done with anything right,um, we're never done.
(25:02):
You know, we've talked a lotabout, you know the life lessons
that we've had to learn andrelearn, and relearn we're not
done until we're dead.
So maybe drawing that back withthe house and maybe this applies
to your should too, but to thelike, what feels right right now
(25:22):
?
What do I need to do and why?
Right?
Speaker 3 (25:25):
um, I think that's something, yeah yeah, and I
wonder if there is, um, like apiece of disappointment you have
to kind of work through withthat.
That it's.
This is not going to be a funtime, buddy thing, unless I come
back and help you I mean youboth can come.
(25:46):
Yeah, yeah Of not having abuddy to walk through it.
Speaker 2 (25:50):
Yeah, I think so.
Yes, but in the end, all we cancontrol is our own actions, our
own selves, right?
So if it's something that Iwant, then I have to figure out
what I'm willing to take on andwhy Right.
Yeah, that I want that.
Speaker 3 (26:06):
I have to figure out what I'm willing to take on and
why.
Right, yeah, you know, I justalways think some of those
pieces that I like to like well,I get to, or like being a
single parent for someone, I getto do this, but there's also
like somebody on the committee,that's like.
This is really hard, though canwe just stop and acknowledge
that this kind of sucks.
Speaker 1 (26:26):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (26:26):
Yeah, definitely a both.
And situation.
Um, so then for you, Sue like,what is the feeling are you
hoping to get?
Speaker 1 (26:36):
You know, I think I'm hoping to, through this
experience, um feel moreconfident about myself than I
probably sound right now, that Ican and I will do what I need
to do when the time comes, and Ialso want to.
(27:01):
Just I want to do this becauseI want a couple the years.
About the joy of the long walkor any kind of long trek that
one might make is it's literallyjust one step in front of the
other until you get to your nextwater spot or meal or place
you're going to sleep.
There's not much else you cando when you're out walking than
(27:22):
talk with your friends, enjoythe scenery, feel grateful for
the body you have that can stillmove, and it's been a while
since I've either allowed myselfor relished kind of living in
the present.
So that is really a big part ofmy motivation for doing this
and I am hopeful that theexperience itself will um
(27:47):
rekindle that for me more thananything else?
Speaker 3 (27:50):
Didn't you used to go to silent retreat?
Speaker 1 (27:53):
Yes, I spent um about 15 or so years ago.
I spent an extended period oftime both meditating every day
for lengthy periods of time andgoing to silent retreat.
For the longest silent retreatI ever did was a week with no
other human contact orinteraction, and that was
(28:14):
wonderful.
It was absolutely wonderful forso many reasons for me and
really helped my lifelongproject of being more
comfortable sitting with myselfand knowing myself and not
needing to be distracted, and Ido think that this particular
experience will hopefully bringsome of that back into focus,
(28:36):
for me for sure.
Speaker 3 (28:39):
Do you think that you , because it seems like your
focus is on the physical,physical I need to do these
things, I should do these things, but I hear you like really
excited when you talk about,yeah, the silence, the nature,
yes, present, yes, um, have youbeen able to leverage more of
(29:00):
that in trying to get thepragmatics?
Speaker 1 (29:04):
I think probably I should.
I appreciate you pointing thatout.
I think the other thing I haveto remind myself is first, that
is why I'm really going.
It's not to become aworld-class long-distance hiker,
because I probably won't becomethat in my lifetime.
But the other thing I have toremember about this is if I am
(29:26):
to remember about this is if Iam really physically
uncomfortable or if I do undertrain.
It's not the end of the world.
I'm not going out to the bushin a far flung country where I
can't get help.
I can't get a ride to the nexttown if I need it, I can't
access support from peoplearound me, and that's something
(29:48):
that I struggle with.
But I think this is also anopportunity to remember that I
can call on people and get helpif I need it.
So I'm not going to be in anydanger if I undertrain.
I will just be embarrassed.
Speaker 2 (30:06):
Or not, or not Right?
I'm sitting here thinking aboutthe whole concept of being
exceptional, and one of thethings that I'm trying to focus
on is what's the worst thingthat happens if you're normal or
imperfect, right?
And so that's what you're, youknow, saying right here is that
you go.
It doesn't go the way you kindof think it should right right
(30:27):
but is?
Is it a loss, is it a wash, orwill you still get a lot to be
present?
Commune with nature, bevulnerable.
Speaker 1 (30:35):
Yes, like spend time with my dear friend, yeah,
experience the, the beauty ofthe english countryside.
All those things are going tohappen no matter what whether I
make the 10 miles a day for sixdays or not so yes, and you have
other ways of getting thefeelings you're looking for as
(30:57):
well.
Those particular feelings.
Do I have other ways?
Yeah, I think so.
I mean, I think I think anytimethat we can work on staying
present, anytime that we canwork on connecting with people
intentionally, anytime that wemove our bodies, anytime that
we're in nature, any of thosethings could be could help me
(31:22):
access these feelings.
Help me access these feelings,and that's around me all the
time too, so I don't really haveto cross the ocean to do this,
but there is something for me,like I said, the novelty piece
that I've never done this before.
I love going places.
I've never been before, sothat'll be, I think, an extra
treat, part of it.
Speaker 3 (31:45):
So, Allie, what do you feel like?
What is sort of the story thatmaybe holds you back from doing
some projects?
I know we've talked about it,but what do you?
Speaker 2 (32:00):
think.
I think some of it is whatwe've talked about just here.
Just that it's all on me and soit feels big Because you have a
job also.
I also have a job.
You have three children andsome kids, yeah.
And then I also like to do funthings.
Sheesh, I know I'm so selfish,but what holds me back is sort
(32:26):
of like my own concept of whatit is, how big it is.
So, for example, after wecleaned out, after we did the
laundry room, I have severalcabinets in my kitchen that just
needed to be done and I've beenthinking about it for more than
a year and I finally did it,and it took me three hours and
(32:49):
but I think in my brain Icouldn't even conceptualize how
long and how hard that was goingto be.
And I did it and it's great, andevery time I use those cabinets
now it feels good.
So I think it's that.
Um, you know, I mean maybe itkind of connects to what Susan
was saying, which is like whatif I don't?
What if I don't?
It's that, you know, I meanmaybe it kind of connects to
what Susan was saying, which islike what if I don't?
What if I don't?
(33:09):
It's kind of like what if thisis awful and hard and I just
like also don't want to do itwith my day Holds me back,
whereas if I think about all ofthe joy, I mean and truthfully,
the laundry room and the cleanedout cabinets do bring me a lot
of joy and also I'm proud ofmyself.
Yeah Well, that was cool, I didthat.
(33:30):
I mean when I after you cause wedidn't get it all done when the
laundry room, when you were in,I had to install a sink by
myself, which I did, and Susan,you're okay the YouTubes and um,
and I actually read theinstructions, which is really
helpful.
Yes, so I installed the syncand then I had to switch out
(33:52):
light switches, which was morecomplicated than it should be
because the wiring is all in thehouse, but I did that with a
little help from Heather'shusband on FaceTime and you know
I accomplished it.
That feeling of like I could doany, I think I sent you a snap
and was like I can do anything.
(34:13):
You can give it to me.
Well, those switches were trickybecause there's one when you
walk in the room and there's onegoing out right.
It's different than a regularswitch.
Speaker 1 (34:23):
If you need help, I can let you know.
Thanks, it's good to know.
Speaker 3 (34:29):
Well, and I also wonder because you were telling
me, when you were cleaning stuffout you found like a part of a
high chair.
Speaker 2 (34:35):
We have a large deep cabinet.
It's an old house and it's theoriginal kitchen and so there's
this deep back part that's notreally usable and I'm digging
back there and there was theactual entire tray of a high
child is 17 17 years.
So either we haven't cleanedthat out in 17 years, which is
(34:56):
possible, or I cleaned it outand was like I'm just gonna
leave that there I don't knowwhat to do.
Speaker 3 (35:04):
That's what I wonder, too, like if you, when you see
stuff like that, if there's astory that starts, that's
probably not very nice, for sure.
Speaker 2 (35:13):
Like some shame around like, oh my gosh, we
haven't done anything back here,we?
I haven't done anything here in17 years, yeah, and I and I do
take it all on myself for sure.
Speaker 3 (35:25):
Yeah, and that's a you thing.
You should have been yeah yeah,yeah, the the 50 of the
equation.
You're the one that should havebeen checking the old back
cabinets Because, also, I thinkin that same time you cleaned
out your fridge that I thinkmultiple people use in your
house as well.
Speaker 2 (35:45):
So I think so.
Speaker 3 (35:47):
Yeah, but I think that piece of because I think
those voices get loud of, likeare you kidding me?
Like you still have.
What are you doing?
Yeah, like of going through themess and it seems like you just
really have to.
(36:07):
Like you know, we're not, we'renot hearing from the naysayers,
right, what we're doing isfocused on, like man, this is
going to be so exciting when Iopen my cabinets and I just see
things I use.
Yeah, it was very high pitched.
Speaker 2 (36:22):
I don't know it is.
Speaker 3 (36:25):
It is how I feel like um, so suze like, yeah, what
are you thinking like?
Do you feel like you can startlooking at this kind of like
joyful silence nature?
Because I think fitness alsogets very mixed up in the
(36:50):
messages we hear the messagingwe have for ourselves.
Fitness is also so weightoriented.
I got to change my body.
I got to fix my body.
Yep, where you're reallytalking about like a performance
issue, right, also like why isthis so hard?
I just here's the thing I'msupposed to do, I know.
Speaker 1 (37:07):
I was thinking about some of what you shared in the
episode on.
You know, the best fitnessroutine is the one you do of
what you shared in the episodeon.
You know, the best fitnessroutine is the one you do and I
think for for most of my life Ihave felt like there is a ideal,
there's a minimum, there's away to approach being healthy,
and I have never been able toaccomplish it through lack of
(37:30):
both motivation, and usuallydiscipline is where it comes
into for me, because Iaccomplish plenty of other
things in my life, but latelyI've been more recognizing and
realizing that for me, it wouldbe better if, anytime, I did do
something good for my body andfor myself, that I just
acknowledge that and focused onthat instead of what I'm not
(37:51):
doing.
And also to remember thatexercise can look like a lot of
different things.
I spend a lot of time playingwith my cats and a lot of people
might say but that's notexercise.
It is when you bend over 50times to pick up a toy and throw
it to your cat and then walk tothe other end of the house and
get it and throw it again and dothat.
(38:12):
You know that's not nothing.
Speaker 3 (38:15):
It's not the same as going to a gym and lifting
weights, but I need to givemyself credit for the physical
movement I do and recognize thatall of those little things will
make a difference when I'm 80about whether I can bend over or
not yeah, so, and you get tocreate those definitions because
, also having worked in thefitness community, there's a lot
(38:35):
of ding-dongs out there thathave a big audience, right and
right also, and like what's theupside to saying like well,
that's not exercise?
Like yeah, all right, bro.
Like so so in your opinionright, but that you get to
change your story right, right,right, cause I think too, and
(38:55):
then I think for both of you,like some of it is a bit systems
ish.
Speaker 1 (39:00):
It is.
Speaker 3 (39:02):
Because that really the way I look at it, always
like with my clients, it'sreally just organization and we
really chunked your laundry roomdown into.
Here's a list of stuff that youget clean this stuff out, list
of stuff that you get clean thisstuff out.
And then you know, then we didit Like there's ways that it's
not well, now we're going to godo the laundry room and I think
(39:26):
kind of the same, because whenit's like, here's the program,
but okay, it's this time ofsemester, I have these
obligations going on, what'sgoing to work best for me right
now?
Speaker 1 (39:38):
So I have always had a really negative relationship
with winter, and that's ironicbecause I've lived in New
(40:00):
England for most of my adultlife and winter is both five
months long and pretty bad.
But I recently said, well, butI love walking, I'll just get a
treadmill.
I went on Facebook marketplace,I got a cheap treadmill, I put
it in my house and I walk on italmost every day, especially
when it's raining or snowing.
(40:22):
And before I was just saying,well, I can't walk today, yeah,
I can, I just can't walk outsideor I don't want to, and so
little things like that whereI'm not a gym person.
I've probably joined 30 gyms inmy lifetime and I've every
single one not gone to.
But do I enjoy moving in thecomfort of my own home?
(40:42):
Yes, and I can figure out waysto do that that honor the fact
that I'm just slightly not theperson I want to be, the person
who goes to the gym and walks 10miles every day.
Speaker 3 (40:57):
So what's your, what's your big takeaway from
today?
Speaker 2 (41:01):
Oh well, I think one of the things is focusing on.
I mean, I do think it'simportant to pause and ask
myself where is the voice comingfrom, right, and then giving
myself some grace as like why itmight feel overwhelming to do
this stuff and do it on my own.
But I think, focusing on theway it makes me feel like doing
(41:26):
the things around the house thatare going to give me that
feeling that the laundry roomgave me or the cabinets gave me,
and not having it be aboutanybody else, really what
anybody else thinks, or what Ithink anybody else thinks
truthfully, and just like, whatdoes it do for me and what am I
willing to do?
Kind of like is you know Susie?
Is she willing to walk outsidein the rain?
no, you know, am I willing toremodel the whole kitchen by
(41:49):
myself?
No, but can I look at differentchunks of the house and ask
myself what would?
What would make me feel best inthis home, and then do like the
next right thing?
Or my mom would say don't eatthe whole elephant at once.
Eat it one bite at a time andit's right.
Speaker 3 (42:07):
She's right.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, susie,biggest takeaway.
Speaker 1 (42:12):
I want to echo what Allie said about focusing on the
feelings, what I want to feelwhen I take on particular
challenges, even if I do sosomewhat impulsively and for the
joy of the journey and thebeing present part, and not
(42:36):
worrying about whether or not Ican do exactly how this trail,
the way everybody else does it.
Speaker 3 (42:43):
I may not and that's okay.
Speaker 1 (42:46):
But also I think I want to be more kind to myself
and when I do put in a five-milewalk, I want to say I did a
five-mile walk today.
It wasn't a 10-mile, but I dida five-mile.
I want to say I did a five milewalk today.
It wasn't a 10 mile, but I dida five mile.
Speaker 3 (42:57):
Or just I did a five mile.
Speaker 1 (42:59):
Or yes.
Speaker 3 (43:00):
Yeah, no, it wasn't.
Speaker 1 (43:02):
It wasn't Right.
I'm going to work toward thatyeah.
But, yes, acknowledging andsupporting myself for what I do
rather than what I don't do.
Speaker 3 (43:10):
Yeah, yeah, because I think for both of you I mean
obviously me as well like it'slike we've done enough time with
uh, this isn't good enough,totally, so totally what if the
narrative gets changed a lotmore and it becomes about me?
Right and the way that I dothings not conforming to the
(43:31):
ways that other people right,right and remembering that we're
not here to prove ourselves topeople.
Speaker 1 (43:39):
I really believe that it's taken me my whole life to
get to that place.
But I believe that we're hereto love each other, to support
each other, to witness eachother's both joys and struggles.
But we're not here to compare,contrast, judge and, most
especially, feel like we can'tmeasure up.
Speaker 2 (43:59):
Because the other people don't care.
Speaker 1 (44:01):
Exactly, either they just don't care.
Speaker 3 (44:03):
They don't care.
Speaker 2 (44:04):
Or if they're the people that love you Right.
Speaker 1 (44:06):
Yeah, and they will always remind you of the things
that are meaningful instead ofthe things that you don't quite
get to.
Speaker 3 (44:15):
Well, we're definitely going to do a
follow-up episode.
See how these things worked outGreat.
Chat about it.
Speaker 2 (44:22):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (44:22):
And, as always, then be the.
Anybody needs me to breaksomething down, organize it like
happy to do that Right.
So leaning on each other alsoAwesome, all right.
Well, thanks you guys.
Thank you, awesome, all right,well, thanks you guys, thank you
Thanks for having us.
As always, please follow theshow or you can leave a
(44:43):
five-star review on Apple orSpotify.
That would be fun too.
See you in the next episode.
I think part of it is I too want to be approved of, I
want to be accepted, andweirdly, I think it also has
something to do with wanting tobe sort of admired if that makes
any sense.
Speaker 2 (00:14):
It makes sense to me, and one of the things that I'm
sitting here thinking issomething I've been exploring
for myself.
Is that drive to be exceptional?
Yes, and not necessarily foraccomplishment sake, though
that's in there Right, but Ithink and I think it depends on
(00:35):
your childhood and what you'rerewarded for.
Speaker 3 (00:36):
But I think as a little right and I imagine
you're the same.
Speaker 2 (00:38):
You get lots of attention and pats on the head
for when you're exceptional.
Yes, so when you do that newthing right and you achieve it
Exactly, you're exceptional.
Speaker 3 (00:47):
And like isn't that?
Speaker 2 (00:47):
rewarding.
Speaker 3 (00:49):
Hi and welcome to the air we breathe, finding well
being that works for you.
I'm your host, HeatherSayers-Layman.
I'm a National Board CertifiedHealth and Wellness Coach,
Certified Intuitive EatingCounselor and Certified Personal
Trainer.
I help you get organized andconsistent with healthy habits,
without rules, obsession orexhaustion.
(01:09):
This podcast may contain talkabout eating disorders and
disordered eating.
There could also be some adultlanguage here.
Choose wisely if those areproblematic for you.
For you, Hi and welcome to thisepisode.
(01:33):
I'm very excited because todaywe're talking about should I do
this thing?
So we all get to this pointwhere we're like I feel like I
should do this, or even like Iwant to do this, and that
becomes hard to decide, like,well, should I do this?
Do I have the time to do this?
Do I have the money to do this?
Why am I doing this?
So we're going to walk througha little more concise question
(01:54):
asking so how we can get to aplace where we're doing the
thing that feels right to us tobe doing, not an obligation or
not overwhelming, but somethingthat we're actually excited that
we want to do.
So I have two guests today, twoof my OG friends from home in
(02:17):
Indiana.
Allie, why don't you introduceyourself?
Speaker 2 (02:21):
Sure, I'm Allison Bell or Allie To my friends and
I'm a regional vice presidentfor WGU, which is a national
online not-for-profit university.
Hi everyone.
Speaker 1 (02:35):
I'm Susan Marine.
I am a professor and anacademic administrator at
Merrimack College inMassachusetts and I and very
happy to be here today talkingabout this really important
topic.
Speaker 3 (02:49):
Hmm, thanks, sue.
I always think it's interestingbecause I consider you gals
like blazer wearers, because youwork in higher education and.
I don't really have a lot ofblazers in my field, but you
guys are heavy blazer wearers.
Speaker 1 (03:06):
Depends but sometimes , sometimes, yep, sometimes a
blazer is a perfect for themoment.
Speaker 3 (03:14):
Well, it makes you look like the part a little bit
more yes, Okay.
Well, now that we've got thatout of the way, should I?
Speaker 1 (03:22):
wear a blazer.
I have one that that has umpatches on is it tweeted?
Speaker 3 (03:28):
yes, in fact it is does it have a corduroy around?
Speaker 1 (03:31):
no, it does not have corduroy around the neck next
winter yes, okay, okay, um.
Speaker 3 (03:38):
Well, we're talking about should I do this thing,
which is a topic that we haveall talked about of, like, how
am I supposed to know which?
I think this all goes back togrowing up doing things that
you're just told to do and notreally like oh well, what do you
want to do, what are youpassionate about, what are you
interested in?
And not really ever being ableto create your own dialogue
(04:01):
about what do I want to do andespecially like well, here's
what my family's done, whichalso you both are following in
your family's footsteps ofhigher education as well, which
is interesting in itself.
So I think that it's verynatural that this is hard for us
(04:23):
to decide, like, am I doing itbecause I saw somebody doing it
and it seemed like I should bedoing something like that, or is
this really like somethingthat's going to be a real value
add to me?
So we talked for a sec beforeabout our examples.
So, um, allie, what is it youfeel like you should be doing
(04:45):
right now?
Speaker 2 (04:46):
So I would like to say I could pick from a number
of things, but the thing we willfocus on today is my house, and
does it look like it shouldlook?
Is it well appointed?
How's the decor?
What about the clutter?
Just feeling overwhelmed bymaking my house the way I think
it should look?
Speaker 3 (05:08):
Excellent, because I feel like that's pretty
universal for a lot of people.
Speaker 2 (05:14):
I think it's been amped up by social media.
You see all these becausepeople put only beautiful things
on the internet, you know andyou know that.
But you still see all thiscurated imagery and it's like,
wow, my house doesn't look likethat.
Where's your mail?
Speaker 3 (05:28):
What do you do with your mail pile?
Speaker 2 (05:29):
Yeah, where's your mail basket that's three feet
tall, I don't know.
Speaker 3 (05:33):
And.
Speaker 1 (05:34):
Sue.
So I have recently undertaken aphysical challenge for myself.
In a couple of months I'll beheading over to the UK and doing
a extended walk slash hike witha dear friend of mine who lives
there along what is called theHadrian's Wall Path, and I
(05:55):
decided to do this about a yearago and ever since I've been
trying to psych myself up totrain for this event, because I
am not a particularly athleticperson.
Um, so I have been doing that,but I always feel like I should
be doing more to get ready andand the stakes feel a little bit
(06:17):
high.
So I think a lot about am Idoing enough?
Speaker 3 (06:23):
I'm not familiar with him.
I doing enough, so we'll justgo with your story.
Is there like a specificprotocol that they say you
should follow?
Speaker 1 (06:33):
Yeah, there's a few different people on the internet
that have sort of shared likeif you're going to do Hadrian's,
here's how to approach it,here's how much to walk, here's
how to build up your mileage,things like that.
Just to give a little bit ofcontext for the trail, most
people do between 10 and 12miles a day.
It's actually about 80 mileslong.
(06:54):
I'm going to do about 60 milesof the trail for a variety of
reasons, and so I know that I'mto be doing miles, several miles
, a day, and then on weekends,longer walks, and just because
of various factors, lately Ihaven't been doing the eight to
10 mile weekend walks that Iknow I should be doing because
(07:17):
the time is approaching for thewalk, got it Okay, thanks for
that clarity.
Speaker 3 (07:22):
Yes, Helps, yeah, um.
So then, ali, with the house,like, who do you feel like?
Is saying, like this issomething you should do, of the
committee in your head?
Who is raising their hand?
Speaker 2 (07:39):
I mean, isn't that what we're trying to?
I, I don't know.
No, it is something about imagethere.
It's, there are multiple thingsright, there is something about
your image, like if people wereto come over, if I were to have
you know, entertain, like, whatwould people think of me if my
house doesn't look a certain way?
So the?
(07:59):
So who is that?
Is that person that's concernedabout what people think of me?
And I guess that gets down tolike am I acceptable, am I
accepted or am I fundamentallygoing to be rejected?
There are some other elementsto that, too, which I think are
important, which is like comfortin my home.
We just did a project togetherand made my laundry room
(08:20):
functional and beautiful and Ilove it and that is a good thing
.
I wouldn't undo that and it andthere's a lot of like comfort
and joy that comes from that.
So there's that piece of it too.
That is a voice.
Speaker 3 (08:34):
Got you, which it's nice that you've already done
something, because then you'vegot something to look at and
like this feels great on theinside, like this is because you
have snapped me many times I'min the laundry room, um, because
it's also like beautifullyjoyful as well, walls or a
(08:55):
wallpaper, um.
so then you already have a like,oh, I like.
This feeling is Is that correct?
Yeah, that's absolutely correct, yeah, okay.
And then with an edge of like,ooh.
So then, because overall, whatI'm hearing you say is, um, not
as much connection, butbelonging, will I belong with my
(09:20):
clutter or will I?
Speaker 2 (09:23):
will I belong more.
You mean belonging with a likewith the group with the outside
that's potentially judging me.
Yeah, I think so.
I think that's about belonging.
Speaker 3 (09:34):
Yeah, yeah, which I think I mean obviously as little
cave people like you're notsafe.
If you're not belonging, you'renot safe and you're not
belonging right safe, and ifyou're not in community.
So it definitely makes sense.
Um, do you feel like there'sanything gendered within it?
Speaker 2 (09:53):
um, definitely, and I do like within the home.
You know, I'm the only one whocares about what the house looks
like truly, and I do feel likeI have I've healed some of this,
but over time I have felt likeit's all on me and it only
(10:14):
reflects on me if it doesn'tlook right.
Speaker 3 (10:18):
I would say you're not wrong.
I don't know who's like.
Did you see their house?
I don't know what the hell he'sdoing around, but it was a mess
.
I didn't see him pick up atowel and wipe anything off the
whole time we were there, right?
I don't know that thatconversation actually exists,
right, because maybe you're nottelling him enough of what he
(10:41):
should do or maybe you're nothurting him, but it's still like
you said ultimately yeah, okay,interesting um suzy so then, do
you have any idea, like who isthe shooter?
Speaker 1 (10:56):
so, um, I think that for most of my adult life I have
, when I look at the threads ofmy life, I think one of the
things that I have kind ofrelentlessly pursued that I
never really quite understoodthe origin of is I'm really a
huge fan of novelty, and so, andspecifically, new experiences I
(11:20):
like to think of myself as akind of free spirited,
venturesome person, and when Ihear about things that other
people do that I think soundexciting and fun, I will often
say I'm gonna do that, and Ioften jump in headfirst and do
sign up or commit to doing thatthing, and then I step back and
(11:43):
say wait a minute, what is thisgoing to require?
I think part of it is I toowant to be approved of, I want
to be accepted, and and weirdly,I think it also has something
to do with wanting to be likesort of admired if that makes
any sense makes sense to me.
Speaker 2 (12:03):
I and I.
One of the things that I'msitting here thinking is
something I've been exploringfor myself.
Um, is that drive to beexceptional?
Yes, and not necessarily foraccomplishment sake.
So that's in there right but Ithink, and I think it depends on
your childhood and what you'rerewarded for, but I think as a
(12:24):
little right and I imagineyou're the same.
You get lots of attention andpats on the head for when you're
exceptional, yes, so when youdo that new thing right and you
achieve it Exactly, you'reexceptional and like.
Isn't that rewarding?
Speaker 1 (12:38):
Right, and isn't that , ultimately, I think it also
feels like if I'm not doingsomething that makes me
exceptional, I'm not sure if I'ma valid human being.
Speaker 2 (12:50):
That makes any sense.
Where's your?
Speaker 1 (12:51):
value, yeah, like so much of my life, and has been
constructed aroundaccomplishment, yes, and I feel
like, career wise, I'veaccomplished a lot of the goals
that I set out for myself, andso now I'm kind of looking
around, going, well, what'swhat's going to make me
exceptional now?
Um, and yet I want to do thingsthat I think will make me
(13:15):
exceptional, but then I don'talways want to do the background
work they require.
Speaker 2 (13:20):
Right.
Speaker 1 (13:21):
And maybe this relates to what you're sharing
about your home that it's likewe'd like to snap our fingers
and have that all come together,but it takes a lot of work to
do those things sometimes, andand money, and money and time
and talent, and we all you knowso yeah.
(13:55):
So where's the message come from?
That it needs to be novelperson who commits to a pursuit
or a hobby or a pastime over thecourse of a life?
But I have literally jumpedfrom thing to thing to thing
kind of my whole life and interms of how I spend my time and
my interests, and lately I'vejust been really fixated on long
(14:17):
distance walking.
Speaker 2 (14:18):
I do enjoy it.
Speaker 1 (14:20):
When I do it, I'm glad I did it, but I'm also not
a person who does it regularlyenough that I can just rely on
that skill within me.
I do have to build it up again.
Speaker 3 (14:32):
Do you have a higher or lower value when you're
watching people?
They've done it for a long time, um higher lower value, Like do
you value?
Speaker 1 (14:40):
like, oh my gosh, they've done it for a long time
um higher lower value, like doyou value like oh my gosh,
they've been doing this, yes, solong, yeah.
And then I feel intimidated byit a little bit um.
So there's a couple of great umlike facebook groups, social
media groups for people, um,who've watched the trail and
other long distance trails, theel camino in spain, you know,
similar types of things, and Iactually pulled off of those
(15:04):
because I was feeling like, ohmy, I'm not where these folks
are and I'm not, I haven't putin the time they have and it's
just making me hyperself-conscious.
So, yeah, so it's like I'mdrawn to being part of that, but
I'm also not always good atcommitting to the work it
requires.
Speaker 3 (15:23):
Or interested yeah.
Speaker 1 (15:25):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (15:26):
Interested.
Yeah, I mean cause I think itseems like you're positioning it
as a negative, like oh, I'mjust really good at that, but
it's like I don't know if I wantto do that, um.
Speaker 1 (15:38):
I feel I mean, I actually feel pretty sure that
I'm I'm going to really enjoythis experience.
What I worry about is I'm goingto either not be able to do it
the way I want to do it, or it'sgoing to be really
uncomfortable for me and I'mgoing to have to come to terms
with the fact that I could haveprevented that if I had prepared
better.
Speaker 3 (15:59):
Regret from a faulty preparation.
Speaker 1 (16:02):
Exactly, exactly.
Speaker 2 (16:04):
Right.
Speaker 1 (16:04):
Well and then, it was your fault.
Then it was my fault, and Icould have done something about
it if I'd only been more.
And this is the part that Ithink is underlying all of this
is that I'm not a particularlydisciplined person, and people
don't.
Speaker 3 (16:18):
Says my friend with a PhD.
Speaker 1 (16:19):
Well, I mean but even that, like I, that came very
naturally to me.
And I'm not saying I didn'twork hard, I did work hard.
I want my advisor to know that,but I've always had comfort and
facility and ease with reading,writing and words.
This is different.
This is actually pushing myselftowards something I'm not very
(16:42):
good at.
Speaker 3 (16:45):
Have you ever felt like the do it yourself approach
to improving your healthyhabits ends up doing nothing
except making you feeloverwhelmed, guilty and defeated
?
Have you been struggling tofind sustainable routines that
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You don't need more rules,influencers or structured
(17:06):
programs.
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If you're ready to createsystems that stick, head to
heathersayerslaymancom,backslash health dash coaching
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Backslash health dash coachingand click, let's do it.
(17:28):
And I think we have our sweetspots, and Allie and I have been
talking about this because Ienjoy organizing, like my sock
drawer that I made, so my sockseach fit in a square with a pair
and it's kind of like an ombreeffect as you move along, like I
dig that and I've maintained it.
It's never not looked like that.
And then when Allie and I weretalking, you were like I don't
(17:52):
even see what you're talkingLike.
What are you doing?
It looks lovely.
Speaker 2 (17:55):
It looks lovely.
If someone would do it for meevery day, I would really
appreciate it.
Speaker 3 (18:00):
Yeah, of just what's.
Like naturally I find thatnaturally interesting.
Like naturally I find thatnaturally interesting.
But like for what you're saying, like writing, like I have to
look up how to use a colon.
All of the time I don't have,because people start sub stacks
and I'm like I can talk aboutstuff but writing it I don't.
(18:20):
I don't have the skill I'veconstantly used grammarly and
she's like this is not theappropriate.
Okay, I'll change it, thank you,but I think it's almost like a
dissatisfaction ordisappointment with like well,
shouldn't I be good at this?
Like, can I be good ateverything?
Speaker 1 (18:41):
Right.
Speaker 3 (18:41):
No yeah.
Speaker 1 (18:42):
I mean, we can't be right.
And we I'm a big believer Ithink we have to push ourselves
into areas that are notcomfortable for us, because
that's how we keep growing.
So again, that goes back to thenovelty thing.
I like doing things I've neverdone before or haven't done
recently, Because I alwaysexperience growth through them.
But I also know there's a riskof being self-conscious, feeling
(19:07):
like, oh, I shouldn't havetried to do this, I can't do
this, um, so yeah, but I'vebought the plane ticket and I'm
in, so oh, I'm going I'm goingum so, ali, like if you had your
house like, looking like whatyou wanted, it's functional,
(19:30):
it's easy to maintain.
Speaker 3 (19:32):
We don't have to worry about the piles, because
piles don't happen.
Like, what would that mean toyou?
How do you think that you wouldfeel?
Speaker 2 (19:41):
I think I would love it.
Honestly, it feels like I wouldhave one less thing that's
bothering me, that's kind ofhanging over me, like you know,
not to worry on the weekendsabout what project should I
attack, because it's not reallyhow I want to spend my weekends.
So I think.
(20:03):
But I also wonder if that'sactually achievable, meaning
would I always find something tobe critical about and so that
it's not really?
I mean, there is some real inthere, like having the laundry
room be functional is a realthing and it's wonderful, but I
(20:25):
wonder because, would I everachieve it?
Or is that the unachievablegoal that I've set for myself?
Speaker 3 (20:31):
Yeah, that, once the laundry room, then you're,
you're peeking into the familyroom and you're like okay, so
let's start this up now, becauseit's well, and I think also
when it's your undertaking,because having have been at your
(20:53):
house and had somebody watch uswork was very interesting.
Yeah.
So you're, maybe are you gonnapop out, get us a smoothie or
pick us up?
No, okay, all right, we'll go,we'll go um, I think that has to
add like another layer, anotherlayer.
Speaker 2 (21:15):
I was thinking about the laundry room and how we did
it together and how that made itso much easier and it's not
like you did it.
For me it was very much a teameffort and um, but that it was
so much easier for.
And it's not like you did it.
For me it was very much a teameffort and um, but that it was
so much easier for me to get itdone because I had someone to
like work with and bounce ideasoff of.
So that does make a difference.
(21:36):
Yeah, A thousand percent.
Speaker 3 (21:38):
And shitty chat and talking about dumb stuff, um,
and like lanes, yeah, I lanes,yeah, I'm doing the shelfy
things, you're doing the painythings, um, yeah, so I think
that it definitely has to.
I would think feel moredaunting, ish, knowing like this
(22:00):
is a solo thing, it's all gonnabe me, yeah.
So of that feeling that youwould love to have, like when
your house is quote unquote done, like is there anything else
that you think ever gives youthat feeling, like, would there
(22:20):
be any other way to get that?
Speaker 2 (22:24):
I mean, I think I get that feeling in other things
that I accomplish and I, youknow, work out in the morning,
just getting a workout done,feels like, you know, there's
some of that um or something.
You know something that Iachieve at work just finished a
big strategy document, workingwith a team to pull it together,
(22:45):
and it's like at work, justfinished a big strategy document
, working with a team to pull ittogether, and it's like what
are we going to do next year,all in one page With a graph.
You told me, yes, I could notcreate the layout, somebody had
to do that for me.
It looked real ugly, but thecontent it was a team effort to
be clear, but to be the personthat got to pull it all together
and, you know, make it makesense, that's really satisfying
(23:06):
too.
So I don't know if that's whatyou're getting at, but that's
what comes to mind.
Speaker 3 (23:10):
Yeah, I think I think familiarizing yourself with
what feeling you want.
Where have I gotten that otherplaces?
Because in that also neverending piece, like, did I get
that feeling I was looking for?
How do I know if I got what Iwanted?
Because that's the other thingof like, you know these stairs,
(23:33):
or you know, well, we reallyneed to repaint, because then
you're never getting to thatpoint of, oh my gosh, this is so
enjoyable, the family roomlooks great painted.
You know the hall up the stairs.
Really good way about that.
Is it possible?
Speaker 1 (23:50):
that the doing of it is also maybe more enjoyable
than at face value.
I'm just thinking about how youwere talking about the laundry
room project and I know how muchyou all enjoy doing that,
because you did it together and,as you said, you played off
each other's strengths andthings and I'm wondering if the
(24:10):
doing of it brings you maybe alittle more satisfaction than
like.
In other words, it in your mindit seems like you're going to
be happy when this is done, butis the doing also part of that
satisfaction?
Yeah, looking at the process,yeah, and getting to make it
what you want it to be.
(24:31):
You know, there's the, there'sthat sense of it is all on you
On the other hand, it's all onyou.
Speaker 2 (24:39):
Right, you can decide , right.
I don't know if that's no.
I think that I think there'ssomething there.
I think that's part of it is.
What am I focusing on?
Like what?
What is it that I actually amtrying to get out of this and
that whole?
I mean we could get meta onthis, but that whole concept of
being done with anything right,um, we're never done.
(25:02):
You know, we've talked a lotabout, you know the life lessons
that we've had to learn andrelearn, and relearn we're not
done until we're dead.
So maybe drawing that back withthe house and maybe this applies
to your should too, but to thelike, what feels right right now
(25:22):
?
What do I need to do and why?
Right?
Speaker 3 (25:25):
um, I think that's something, yeah yeah, and I
wonder if there is, um, like apiece of disappointment you have
to kind of work through withthat.
That it's.
This is not going to be a funtime, buddy thing, unless I come
back and help you I mean youboth can come.
(25:46):
Yeah, yeah Of not having abuddy to walk through it.
Speaker 2 (25:50):
Yeah, I think so.
Yes, but in the end, all we cancontrol is our own actions, our
own selves, right?
So if it's something that Iwant, then I have to figure out
what I'm willing to take on andwhy Right.
Yeah, that I want that.
Speaker 3 (26:06):
I have to figure out what I'm willing to take on and
why.
Right, yeah, you know, I justalways think some of those
pieces that I like to like well,I get to, or like being a
single parent for someone, I getto do this, but there's also
like somebody on the committee,that's like.
This is really hard, though canwe just stop and acknowledge
that this kind of sucks.
Speaker 1 (26:26):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (26:26):
Yeah, definitely a both.
And situation.
Um, so then for you, Sue like,what is the feeling are you
hoping to get?
Speaker 1 (26:36):
You know, I think I'm hoping to, through this
experience, um feel moreconfident about myself than I
probably sound right now, that Ican and I will do what I need
to do when the time comes, and Ialso want to.
(27:01):
Just I want to do this becauseI want a couple the years.
About the joy of the long walkor any kind of long trek that
one might make is it's literallyjust one step in front of the
other until you get to your nextwater spot or meal or place
you're going to sleep.
There's not much else you cando when you're out walking than
(27:22):
talk with your friends, enjoythe scenery, feel grateful for
the body you have that can stillmove, and it's been a while
since I've either allowed myselfor relished kind of living in
the present.
So that is really a big part ofmy motivation for doing this
and I am hopeful that theexperience itself will um
(27:47):
rekindle that for me more thananything else?
Speaker 3 (27:50):
Didn't you used to go to silent retreat?
Speaker 1 (27:53):
Yes, I spent um about 15 or so years ago.
I spent an extended period oftime both meditating every day
for lengthy periods of time andgoing to silent retreat.
For the longest silent retreatI ever did was a week with no
other human contact orinteraction, and that was
(28:14):
wonderful.
It was absolutely wonderful forso many reasons for me and
really helped my lifelongproject of being more
comfortable sitting with myselfand knowing myself and not
needing to be distracted, and Ido think that this particular
experience will hopefully bringsome of that back into focus,
(28:36):
for me for sure.
Speaker 3 (28:39):
Do you think that you , because it seems like your
focus is on the physical,physical I need to do these
things, I should do these things, but I hear you like really
excited when you talk about,yeah, the silence, the nature,
yes, present, yes, um, have youbeen able to leverage more of
(29:00):
that in trying to get thepragmatics?
Speaker 1 (29:04):
I think probably I should.
I appreciate you pointing thatout.
I think the other thing I haveto remind myself is first, that
is why I'm really going.
It's not to become aworld-class long-distance hiker,
because I probably won't becomethat in my lifetime.
But the other thing I have toremember about this is if I am
(29:26):
to remember about this is if Iam really physically
uncomfortable or if I do undertrain.
It's not the end of the world.
I'm not going out to the bushin a far flung country where I
can't get help.
I can't get a ride to the nexttown if I need it, I can't
access support from peoplearound me, and that's something
(29:48):
that I struggle with.
But I think this is also anopportunity to remember that I
can call on people and get helpif I need it.
So I'm not going to be in anydanger if I undertrain.
I will just be embarrassed.
Speaker 2 (30:06):
Or not, or not Right?
I'm sitting here thinking aboutthe whole concept of being
exceptional, and one of thethings that I'm trying to focus
on is what's the worst thingthat happens if you're normal or
imperfect, right?
And so that's what you're, youknow, saying right here is that
you go.
It doesn't go the way you kindof think it should right right
(30:27):
but is?
Is it a loss, is it a wash, orwill you still get a lot to be
present?
Commune with nature, bevulnerable.
Speaker 1 (30:35):
Yes, like spend time with my dear friend, yeah,
experience the, the beauty ofthe english countryside.
All those things are going tohappen no matter what whether I
make the 10 miles a day for sixdays or not so yes, and you have
other ways of getting thefeelings you're looking for as
(30:57):
well.
Those particular feelings.
Do I have other ways?
Yeah, I think so.
I mean, I think I think anytimethat we can work on staying
present, anytime that we canwork on connecting with people
intentionally, anytime that wemove our bodies, anytime that
we're in nature, any of thosethings could be could help me
(31:22):
access these feelings.
Help me access these feelings,and that's around me all the
time too, so I don't really haveto cross the ocean to do this,
but there is something for me,like I said, the novelty piece
that I've never done this before.
I love going places.
I've never been before, sothat'll be, I think, an extra
treat, part of it.
Speaker 3 (31:45):
So, Allie, what do you feel like?
What is sort of the story thatmaybe holds you back from doing
some projects?
I know we've talked about it,but what do you?
Speaker 2 (32:00):
think.
I think some of it is whatwe've talked about just here.
Just that it's all on me and soit feels big Because you have a
job also.
I also have a job.
You have three children andsome kids, yeah.
And then I also like to do funthings.
Sheesh, I know I'm so selfish,but what holds me back is sort
(32:26):
of like my own concept of whatit is, how big it is.
So, for example, after wecleaned out, after we did the
laundry room, I have severalcabinets in my kitchen that just
needed to be done and I've beenthinking about it for more than
a year and I finally did it,and it took me three hours and
(32:49):
but I think in my brain Icouldn't even conceptualize how
long and how hard that was goingto be.
And I did it and it's great, andevery time I use those cabinets
now it feels good.
So I think it's that.
Um, you know, I mean maybe itkind of connects to what Susan
was saying, which is like whatif I don't?
What if I don't?
It's that, you know, I meanmaybe it kind of connects to
what Susan was saying, which islike what if I don't?
What if I don't?
(33:09):
It's kind of like what if thisis awful and hard and I just
like also don't want to do itwith my day Holds me back,
whereas if I think about all ofthe joy, I mean and truthfully,
the laundry room and the cleanedout cabinets do bring me a lot
of joy and also I'm proud ofmyself.
Yeah Well, that was cool, I didthat.
(33:30):
I mean when I after you cause wedidn't get it all done when the
laundry room, when you were in,I had to install a sink by
myself, which I did, and Susan,you're okay the YouTubes and um,
and I actually read theinstructions, which is really
helpful.
Yes, so I installed the syncand then I had to switch out
(33:52):
light switches, which was morecomplicated than it should be
because the wiring is all in thehouse, but I did that with a
little help from Heather'shusband on FaceTime and you know
I accomplished it.
That feeling of like I could doany, I think I sent you a snap
and was like I can do anything.
(34:13):
You can give it to me.
Well, those switches were trickybecause there's one when you
walk in the room and there's onegoing out right.
It's different than a regularswitch.
Speaker 1 (34:23):
If you need help, I can let you know.
Thanks, it's good to know.
Speaker 3 (34:29):
Well, and I also wonder because you were telling
me, when you were cleaning stuffout you found like a part of a
high chair.
Speaker 2 (34:35):
We have a large deep cabinet.
It's an old house and it's theoriginal kitchen and so there's
this deep back part that's notreally usable and I'm digging
back there and there was theactual entire tray of a high
child is 17 17 years.
So either we haven't cleanedthat out in 17 years, which is
(34:56):
possible, or I cleaned it outand was like I'm just gonna
leave that there I don't knowwhat to do.
Speaker 3 (35:04):
That's what I wonder, too, like if you, when you see
stuff like that, if there's astory that starts, that's
probably not very nice, for sure.
Speaker 2 (35:13):
Like some shame around like, oh my gosh, we
haven't done anything back here,we?
I haven't done anything here in17 years, yeah, and I and I do
take it all on myself for sure.
Speaker 3 (35:25):
Yeah, and that's a you thing.
You should have been yeah yeah,yeah, the the 50 of the
equation.
You're the one that should havebeen checking the old back
cabinets Because, also, I thinkin that same time you cleaned
out your fridge that I thinkmultiple people use in your
house as well.
Speaker 2 (35:45):
So I think so.
Speaker 3 (35:47):
Yeah, but I think that piece of because I think
those voices get loud of, likeare you kidding me?
Like you still have.
What are you doing?
Yeah, like of going through themess and it seems like you just
really have to.
(36:07):
Like you know, we're not, we'renot hearing from the naysayers,
right, what we're doing isfocused on, like man, this is
going to be so exciting when Iopen my cabinets and I just see
things I use.
Yeah, it was very high pitched.
Speaker 2 (36:22):
I don't know it is.
Speaker 3 (36:25):
It is how I feel like um, so suze like, yeah, what
are you thinking like?
Do you feel like you can startlooking at this kind of like
joyful silence nature?
Because I think fitness alsogets very mixed up in the
(36:50):
messages we hear the messagingwe have for ourselves.
Fitness is also so weightoriented.
I got to change my body.
I got to fix my body.
Yep, where you're reallytalking about like a performance
issue, right, also like why isthis so hard?
I just here's the thing I'msupposed to do, I know.
Speaker 1 (37:07):
I was thinking about some of what you shared in the
episode on.
You know, the best fitnessroutine is the one you do of
what you shared in the episodeon.
You know, the best fitnessroutine is the one you do and I
think for for most of my life Ihave felt like there is a ideal,
there's a minimum, there's away to approach being healthy,
and I have never been able toaccomplish it through lack of
(37:30):
both motivation, and usuallydiscipline is where it comes
into for me, because Iaccomplish plenty of other
things in my life, but latelyI've been more recognizing and
realizing that for me, it wouldbe better if, anytime, I did do
something good for my body andfor myself, that I just
acknowledge that and focused onthat instead of what I'm not
(37:51):
doing.
And also to remember thatexercise can look like a lot of
different things.
I spend a lot of time playingwith my cats and a lot of people
might say but that's notexercise.
It is when you bend over 50times to pick up a toy and throw
it to your cat and then walk tothe other end of the house and
get it and throw it again and dothat.
(38:12):
You know that's not nothing.
Speaker 3 (38:15):
It's not the same as going to a gym and lifting
weights, but I need to givemyself credit for the physical
movement I do and recognize thatall of those little things will
make a difference when I'm 80about whether I can bend over or
not yeah, so, and you get tocreate those definitions because
, also having worked in thefitness community, there's a lot
(38:35):
of ding-dongs out there thathave a big audience, right and
right also, and like what's theupside to saying like well,
that's not exercise?
Like yeah, all right, bro.
Like so so in your opinionright, but that you get to
change your story right, right,right, cause I think too, and
(38:55):
then I think for both of you,like some of it is a bit systems
ish.
Speaker 1 (39:00):
It is.
Speaker 3 (39:02):
Because that really the way I look at it, always
like with my clients, it'sreally just organization and we
really chunked your laundry roomdown into.
Here's a list of stuff that youget clean this stuff out, list
of stuff that you get clean thisstuff out.
And then you know, then we didit Like there's ways that it's
not well, now we're going to godo the laundry room and I think
(39:26):
kind of the same, because whenit's like, here's the program,
but okay, it's this time ofsemester, I have these
obligations going on, what'sgoing to work best for me right
now?
Speaker 1 (39:38):
So I have always had a really negative relationship
with winter, and that's ironicbecause I've lived in New
(40:00):
England for most of my adultlife and winter is both five
months long and pretty bad.
But I recently said, well, butI love walking, I'll just get a
treadmill.
I went on Facebook marketplace,I got a cheap treadmill, I put
it in my house and I walk on italmost every day, especially
when it's raining or snowing.
(40:22):
And before I was just saying,well, I can't walk today, yeah,
I can, I just can't walk outsideor I don't want to, and so
little things like that whereI'm not a gym person.
I've probably joined 30 gyms inmy lifetime and I've every
single one not gone to.
But do I enjoy moving in thecomfort of my own home?
(40:42):
Yes, and I can figure out waysto do that that honor the fact
that I'm just slightly not theperson I want to be, the person
who goes to the gym and walks 10miles every day.
Speaker 3 (40:57):
So what's your, what's your big takeaway from
today?
Speaker 2 (41:01):
Oh well, I think one of the things is focusing on.
I mean, I do think it'simportant to pause and ask
myself where is the voice comingfrom, right, and then giving
myself some grace as like why itmight feel overwhelming to do
this stuff and do it on my own.
But I think, focusing on theway it makes me feel like doing
(41:26):
the things around the house thatare going to give me that
feeling that the laundry roomgave me or the cabinets gave me,
and not having it be aboutanybody else, really what
anybody else thinks, or what Ithink anybody else thinks
truthfully, and just like, whatdoes it do for me and what am I
willing to do?
Kind of like is you know Susie?
Is she willing to walk outsidein the rain?
no, you know, am I willing toremodel the whole kitchen by
(41:49):
myself?
No, but can I look at differentchunks of the house and ask
myself what would?
What would make me feel best inthis home, and then do like the
next right thing?
Or my mom would say don't eatthe whole elephant at once.
Eat it one bite at a time andit's right.
Speaker 3 (42:07):
She's right.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, susie,biggest takeaway.
Speaker 1 (42:12):
I want to echo what Allie said about focusing on the
feelings, what I want to feelwhen I take on particular
challenges, even if I do sosomewhat impulsively and for the
joy of the journey and thebeing present part, and not
(42:36):
worrying about whether or not Ican do exactly how this trail,
the way everybody else does it.
Speaker 3 (42:43):
I may not and that's okay.
Speaker 1 (42:46):
But also I think I want to be more kind to myself
and when I do put in a five-milewalk, I want to say I did a
five-mile walk today.
It wasn't a 10-mile, but I dida five-mile.
I want to say I did a five milewalk today.
It wasn't a 10 mile, but I dida five mile.
Speaker 3 (42:57):
Or just I did a five mile.
Speaker 1 (42:59):
Or yes.
Speaker 3 (43:00):
Yeah, no, it wasn't.
Speaker 1 (43:02):
It wasn't Right.
I'm going to work toward thatyeah.
But, yes, acknowledging andsupporting myself for what I do
rather than what I don't do.
Speaker 3 (43:10):
Yeah, yeah, because I think for both of you I mean
obviously me as well like it'slike we've done enough time with
uh, this isn't good enough,totally, so totally what if the
narrative gets changed a lotmore and it becomes about me?
Right and the way that I dothings not conforming to the
(43:31):
ways that other people right,right and remembering that we're
not here to prove ourselves topeople.
Speaker 1 (43:39):
I really believe that it's taken me my whole life to
get to that place.
But I believe that we're hereto love each other, to support
each other, to witness eachother's both joys and struggles.
But we're not here to compare,contrast, judge and, most
especially, feel like we can'tmeasure up.
Speaker 2 (43:59):
Because the other people don't care.
Speaker 1 (44:01):
Exactly, either they just don't care.
Speaker 3 (44:03):
They don't care.
Speaker 2 (44:04):
Or if they're the people that love you Right.
Speaker 1 (44:06):
Yeah, and they will always remind you of the things
that are meaningful instead ofthe things that you don't quite
get to.
Speaker 3 (44:15):
Well, we're definitely going to do a
follow-up episode.
See how these things worked outGreat.
Chat about it.
Speaker 2 (44:22):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (44:22):
And, as always, then be the.
Anybody needs me to breaksomething down, organize it like
happy to do that Right.
So leaning on each other alsoAwesome, all right.
Well, thanks you guys.
Thank you, awesome, all right,well, thanks you guys, thank you
Thanks for having us.
As always, please follow theshow or you can leave a
(44:43):
five-star review on Apple orSpotify.
That would be fun too.
See you in the next episode.
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