August 7, 2024 • 43 mins
Are you tired of focusing on your weight or body size? 😩
Well, Hannah Husband and the Body Liberation Playground are here to help!
Today on the pod, Hannah shares their relationship with exercise.
Like most of us, it began as their desire to change and control their body.
Over time, it shifted to their desire to liberate it and feel free.
During the pandemic, they were forced to close the doors to their brand-new fitness studio and shift to virtual coaching.
After offering weekly phone calls to check in with clients, they had the idea to start the Body Liberation Playground.
They aimed to help their clients use movement as a self-awareness practice and learn to enjoy being IN their bodies, not try to fix or change them.
We also delve into the flexible nature of exercise, particularly in recovering from sickness or injury.
Hannah emphasizes that exercise is not a binary choice between active and sedentary but rather a sliding scale.
They share their framework for guiding clients back to movement after a period of inactivity.
Ultimately, we focus on the vital role of curiosity, play, and experimentation in exercise.
Hannah shares how these elements can bring exercise back to a place of joy and self-discovery, away from the pressures of focusing on weight and size.
…..
Hannah's Bio: Hannah Husband (they/them) is a Body Liberation Coach. Think of Hannah as a couples therapist for the relationship between you and your body. They help the two of you fall in love with movement all over again (or for the very first time.)
Body Liberation Playground: https://www.hannahhusband.com/body-liberation-playground
Resources:
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Download your free 3D Journaling Guide here: https://heathersayerslehman.com/journal/
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Download 3 Foundational Meta-Skills for Healthy Living that Lasts here: https://heathersayerslehman.com/meta-skills/
Trying to figure out if a program or activity will actually promote healthy behavior change? 🙋🏻♀️
Download Keys to Promoting Health Sustaining Behaviors here: https://overcomingu.com/white-paper/
Looking for a personal health coach, well-being speaker, or health education for employees? 🙌🏼
Visit https://heathersayerslehman.com/work-with-me/ for more information.
Need support overcoming emotional eating? Work through my guidebook, Don’t Eat It. DEAL With It! Second Edition: Your Guidebook on How to STOP Eating Your Emotions, to create a healthier relationship with food. ✍🏼
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
sensing our internal environment, one skill being
able to articulate that internalenvironment and like interpret
those sensations and value them.
Also, not something that'staught, especially in the
fitness industry.
Right, the fitness paradigm islike I have hired you, the
expert, you are going to knowexactly what my body needs.
And I'm like cool, no, you'velived in your body your whole
(00:23):
ass life.
I've just met you Like I haveexercise knowledge, but like you
are in your body, like you'rethe expert of your body.
Speaker 2 (00:34):
Hi and welcome to the Air ReBreathe finding
well-being that works for you.
I'm your host, heatherSayers-Layman.
I'm a National Board CertifiedHealth and Wellness Coach,
certified Intuitive EatingCounselor and certified personal
trainer.
I help you get organized andconsistent with healthy habits,
without rules, obsession orexhaustion.
This podcast may contain talkabout eating disorders and
(00:57):
disordered eating.
There could also be some adultlanguage here.
Choose wisely if those areproblematic for you.
Hi and welcome to this episodeof the Air we Breathe.
Today I'm chatting with HannahHusband, who is a body
liberation coach, and Hannah andI both came up through the same
(01:22):
fitness format where basically,fitness exercise, physical
activity, whatever you want tocall it is to change your body.
That could be losing weight,elongating your muscles, barf,
snatching your waist, makingyour butt bigger whatever is
(01:43):
actually in vogue at that time.
Also, a big piece of thatfitness model is having a leader
.
So this is either a coach whenyou're younger and you're in
sports, or a fitness leader,that is, the expert positioned
to tell you what you should bedoing and how you should do it.
(02:05):
So some of the things wechatted about really are how can
you tune in to yourself andtune out a lot of these other
voices and the big piece of howto position yourself as your own
(02:27):
leader and you are able to askyourself a lot of different
questions what feels good rightnow?
What seems like too much?
If I'm sick, when do I know howto come back?
I definitely find, and wechatted about, like there are
all these different like rulesand regulations of, oh, you
(02:47):
recover this long and you knowyou need to make sure you're
doing it exactly this way andobviously, how can that fit
everyone?
So we really talk about how tomake your own decisions and be
your own fitness boss, if youwill.
I really had a good chat withHannah and I hope you enjoy this
episode.
Hi and welcome to this episode.
(03:08):
Today I'm chatting with HannahHusband and Hannah.
Why don't you just jump in andintroduce yourself?
Okay?
Speaker 1 (03:16):
So I call myself a body liberation coach.
I was a personal trainer andPilates instructor for a long
time and then, as I woke up toanti-fat bias and all of the
ways that that was influencingmy understanding of fitness, I
shifted my title.
So I support folks to healtheir relationship with their
(03:39):
bodies, really become friendswith their bodies and like
reclaim movement as a practicethat supports them holistically,
and I bring like a kind of likeplayful comedic spin to that
Cause.
I really believe that like itis serious work and we need to
make space for the grief and allof that and it could be fun.
Speaker 2 (04:01):
I don't even know what you're talking about.
It's gotta be hard.
It's gotta be hard, it's gottabe awful and we're going to hate
it, but we'll be happy whenwe're done Like that's right.
Yeah.
And then how did you come up?
We talked a little bit beforethis started on sort of like my
origin story.
But how did you come up throughthe world of fitness?
(04:22):
Sure, so I was a theater kid.
Theater and fitness are justbedfellows, yeah.
Speaker 1 (04:31):
I was literally just thinking about this today like
the, the pipeline from likeactor to some kind of body care
specialist, like massagetherapist, personal trainer,
yoga teacher, right To like somekind of coach therapist,
helping professional like thatpipeline is strong and I am on
(04:52):
it.
So that's the TLDR.
But yeah, I was a theater kidand I was not an athlete or a
sporty person.
I did not like step foot into agym until my 20s probably.
So I learned fitness as anadult and I really did learn it
in the like weight centricparadigm of the you know joyful
(05:14):
early 2000s, and I came to itfrom the lens of only skinny
girls get cast in leading roles,so I'd better be as thin as
possible.
Only skinny girls get cast inleading roles, so I'd better be
as thin as possible.
And I'd already flunked out ofdieting and so I was like, well,
maybe exercise will be my thing, maybe that's how I'll do it.
So that was my like entree intofitness for myself.
(05:37):
And then I really liked it,like I just would feel good
after going to a class, like mybrain would be clear.
I have ADHD, I now know, but Ididn't figure that out until I
was 39.
But I just would be like, wow,like my brain feels really clear
, I feel really like good andenergized and focused, and so
that was like kind of what keptme coming back for fitness on my
(06:01):
own like.
And then at a certain point Ilike, oh, maybe I could like be
an instructor and that could bemy like day job to support my
acting work while I'm being astarving artist.
So, yeah, that was how I gotinto.
I did personal trainingcertification in 2010, um, and I
worked as a trainer at thislike all women's gym in
(06:22):
Massachusetts that's kind of asmall local chain and got into
teaching Pilates there and thenmoved to California in 2014 and
was like, oh, I'll just work formyself, no big deal, just keep
doing what I'm doing.
But you know, without any ofthe infrastructure turns out
(06:43):
that was not super easy to do.
So I ended up working for acouple other like I worked for a
Pilates studio here in Oaklandand then I worked at a like,
kind of like functional fitnesssort of bootcampy style gym not
a CrossFit, but like CrossFitlight sort of thing and then my
(07:05):
friend at the time who was themanager there was like we should
maybe peel off and start ourown thing.
So we did that and I ran anin-person business from 2017
until 2021.
It did not survive the pandemic,but we did kind of like small
group strength training classes,very much like let's meet you
(07:27):
where you are really beginnerfriendly, very like size
inclusive in the way that weunderstood it at the time, but
still not really questioning thelike people are going to want
to lose weight and we're goingto need to support them with
that kind of paradigm of theindustry.
People are going to want tolose weight and we're going to
need to support them with thatkind of paradigm of the industry
.
We more took an approach oflike let's not do crazy
(07:49):
unhealthy things in the name ofweight loss.
But like I wasn't yet realizingthat intentional weight loss
pursuit was a scam entirely andI think part of that too, like
we were talking about earlier.
Like I was definitely lookingback at that time, I like, oh
yeah, I was really usingexercise to control my body, but
(08:09):
I was quote unquote successful,right.
So in my mind it worked and Ifelt morally comfortable like
helping other people do thatthing.
So, yeah, the pandemic forced usto shut down our freshly opened
studio and we had to kind ofmake an emergency pivot to doing
(08:32):
like an online membership.
And the blessing of that timewas that one of the things we
offered as part of that kind ofoh no, how do we do this?
Virtually kind of offering wasweekly coaching, phone call
check ins with our clients.
We had previously been doingsmall group classes, so you
(08:54):
didn't get a lot of chance tolike coach individuals.
Occasionally you'd have asidebar conversation with
someone where you'd actually getto like connect with them, but,
like once we moved to thevirtual version, a lot of the
job became how do I help coachmy clients to like keep their
movement practice going?
(09:14):
Because it's more self directednow, like we are providing them
these pre recorded classes butlike they have to make time to
do the thing Right.
And I really enjoyed thatcoaching part and so when that
business shut down, I was superburnt out so I took some time to
kind of like recover.
(09:36):
My plan was like I'm going todo nothing for a month and
literally like one week in Istarted getting just like.
I started waking up early inthe morning, no alarm, like I
was like I can finally sleep inat 530am I'd be like awake and
like having ideas and I wasessentially like having.
I call them downloads, becausethat's what it felt like.
(09:57):
I was just like having theseideas like arrive in my brain of
essentially a community that Iwanted to create.
That was about like supportingpeople in that coaching
conversation, like how do weshift our relationship to
movement from one of themovement is sacred and I must
ready myself and meet it and bea good mover, to how do I invite
(10:21):
movement to serve me in my lifeand how do I like hire movement
to play the role that I need itto play in this season of my
life, which might be differentthan past seasons or future
seasons, and got very like deepinto unlearning diet culture and
(10:48):
like really starting to see theways that I've been
participating in that weightcentric paradigm, even though I
thought I was like counter to itand yeah, so that's really how.
So now I have a, an onlinecommunity called the body
liberation playground, which wasthat idea that just started
like downloading into my brain,and I also do one-on-one work
with clients.
(11:08):
And then I have a like smallgroup beginner strength training
program called SeedlingStrength that I run a couple
times a year, but mostly in thevirtual realms, which is awesome
, kind of relatively new.
It's funny like I've been inbusiness for a long time for
myself, but I'm sort of still anewbie to the like online
business world didn't for acouple of years.
Speaker 2 (11:50):
So then you're doing a webinar and I'm literally
looking at the green dot and myslides no feedback.
Is this dumb?
Is this good?
Is it helpful?
And it is really challenging, Ithink because you get so much
from people's faces of like anod yes, they get it, they get
it or a confused look and Ithink that, um, I mean like that
(12:13):
piece just can't be, like youknow, underplayed of how
challenging it is to learn towork in that way.
Speaker 1 (12:24):
Yeah yeah, when we first switched to a virtual
model in the early pandemic, Ihated teaching live classes on
Zoom because I was comparing itdirectly to teaching in person
and, to be fair, I'm a verykinesthetic, auditory human.
Those are my like dominant,preferred ways of interacting
(12:44):
with the world and learning andso when I'm in a room with
humans, I can tell if people arebreathing comfortably and
normally or if they've kind ofstopped breathing right Like.
I can sort of feel the vibe inthe room shift to one of like oh
, we hate this and be like okay,we need to change it up right
Like, and on zoom, I'm juststaring at the little square as
(13:05):
being like is are you getting it?
Are you feeling the right stuff?
Are you?
Do you hate this?
Do you like it?
I don't know.
And like you know a little bitof a recovering people pleaser.
So there was like thatnarrative present and I'm like
one of my superpowers slashtrauma coping strategies from
childhood is being like hyperattuned to people's emotional
(13:29):
tone, which again, when I'm inthe room teaching humans, I can
use that and over zoom it kindof doesn't work.
And so at first I just felt Iturned it in on myself and I was
like, oh, I'm not a goodteacher without this medium.
And now, having done a lot morelike personal development, work
(13:51):
and learning and justexperimenting, right, Like I'm
like, oh right, Like there arethings that don't translate over
Zoom, I teach movement live nowis that it puts more self
responsibility in the hands ofthe client to notice their body
and their internal state and topractice articulating that out
(14:15):
loud.
To me, which is a skill that wearen't largely taught, right,
Like sensing our internalenvironment one skill, being
able to articulate that internalenvironment.
And like interpret thosesensations and value them.
Also, not something that'staught, especially in the
(14:35):
fitness industry.
Right, the fitness paradigm islike I have hired you, the
expert, you are going to knowexactly what my body needs.
And I'm like, cool, no, you'velived in your body your whole
ass life.
I've just met you.
Like I have exercise knowledge.
But like you are in your body,Like you're the expert of your
(14:55):
body, you can feel your nervoussystem nervous system like state
shifts better than I can,Hopefully, Right, yeah, Again, a
skill to develop.
But like what I enjoy now aboutteaching online is that I get
to help people develop thoseskills and, in my mind like
(15:16):
that's way more valuable thanbecause what used to happen when
I taught in person, both one onones and classes, was that
people would show up and be likethis is amazing and then, if I
wasn't there to do the magicthing with them, nothing
happened, whereas now I'm liketeaching people the tools and
skills to like listen to theirbodies, check in with how things
(15:40):
are feeling in real time, makedecisions based on internal
feedback and like.
That is what actually I've foundlike empowers someone to like
shift their relationship tomovement in such a way that they
can self-generate versus alwaysbeing like well, no, I just I
need someone or I need a class.
I need a thing, not to say thatthat's wrong.
(16:02):
Right, like it's good to knowabout ourselves, what kind of
supports we need and source themwrong, right, like it's good to
know about ourselves what kindof supports we need and source
them.
Speaker 2 (16:09):
Do you feel like the do it yourself approach to
improving your healthy habitsdoes nothing except feel
overwhelming, guilt inducing anddefeating?
You don't need more rules,influencers or structured
programs.
Let me help you discover whatyou want, what works for you and
how to maintain healthy habitsduring the ever changing
circumstances of your life.
(16:31):
If you're ready to createsystems that stick head to
heathersayerslaymancom backslashhealth dash coaching and click,
let's do it.
I think it's so interestingbecause I find so much value in
everything that you're talkingabout, like, especially you know
(16:54):
, as my life changed when I hadmy thyroid out, like I cannot do
what I used to do, and I mean Ialso had this intersection of
you know, also had thisintersection of you know,
exercising for size, bodymaintenance and then illness.
That's like, haha, that's notgonna work anymore, you know,
(17:14):
eating disorders sprinkled in,and so you know, redefining my
relationship with how I move andI think one of the pieces that
I see that's very challengingfor others and and I think it's
easier for me just because Igrew up in the business.
So I know that my darling, youknow 22 and 23 year old trainers
(17:38):
that do our group training, youknow, are trained to do their
best and like I'll be doing thisexercise, or trained to do
their best and like I'll bedoing this exercise.
This is my modification, whichthey don't even ask anymore
because you know, um, or it'sfunny, I'm we're going to be out
of town for five weeks andwe'll go to a different gym and
I always have to gear up for the.
(17:59):
Yeah, I, I don't do those, I dothis, I don't do that one, I do
this Cause some people are, youknow very much, like Ooh, we
need you to, and it's like no,absolutely not.
But I think it makes adifference because I, you know,
certainly value, like I don'twant to get injured, like it's a
hassle, it's expensive.
(18:20):
So like what is it that youfeel like you do to help people,
feel like they actually havethe knowledge and authority to
speak up for themselves.
Speaker 1 (18:36):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
So there's a couple layers tothat project and it depends
where the person is startingfrom.
So even in my group programs, Ido like a one-on-one intake
with people to kind of get asense of like, okay, what's the
state of the union right now?
Like what is?
How would you describe yourrelationship with your body?
(18:57):
How, in tune with yoursensations and internal
environment do you think you are, which is different than what
actually is happening sometimes?
And then kind of, what's yourhistory with movement and
exercise and what do you wantthat to be Right?
And and then we kind of knowwhere we're starting from, right
(19:19):
.
So I think, like one of thebiggest pitfalls in the fitness
industry is that we don't spendenough time using movement as an
awareness practice.
Like we don't know what is whatis in terms of movement.
(19:40):
But then we're like, okay, Igot to go over here where it's
intense and hard and I got topush hard to get there.
And it're like, okay, I got togo over here where it's intense
and hard and I got to push hardto get there, and it's like, but
you don't know where you are.
So how do you take the rightamount of intensity to get the
adaptation that you want.
So I tend to start with teachingpeople that like using movement
as a self-awareness practice,moving as a way to like acquaint
(20:05):
yourself with your body andwith your ranges of motion, with
your body and with your rangesof motion and with your strength
and with your endurance, sothat you can help build the
vocabulary of where you are now.
Sometimes there are someimmediate sort of gains just
doing that, especially ifsomeone isn't moving much at all
, because motion is lotion andso we often like feel better if
(20:26):
we're just doing a little bitmore.
Movement also like supports themental health weasels, right,
but that's a big part of it isjust like can you engage with
movement not to fix or changeyour body, but to know it and to
compassionately, curiously,explore it and accept it?
And that is often likerevolutionary for folks because
(20:49):
they've never been invited to dothat.
Speaker 2 (20:52):
No, because I think the the overarching vibe,
whether it starts, you know, inathletics when you're young,
you're a PE teacher, is theresomebody here that knows more
than you?
And then that's right.
That person will be in chargeof this experience and even down
to like you know if you're inathletics, I mean your coach is
(21:13):
your feedback about yourtechnique or you know your
training, anything like that.
Speaker 1 (21:20):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, and I used to.
I came from that paradigm.
You know I was a high achieving, people pleaser, perfectionist
type.
I definitely took that into myexercise journey.
You know, pilates, hello,inhale as you do this, exhale as
you do that You're literallylike prescribing when the breath
(21:42):
happens.
When the breath happens and youknow I would like the Pilates
studio was full of mirrors, soI'd be watching myself and
checking my body the whole time.
And I remember when I moved toOakland I started working at the
like you know, bootcamp light,crossfit light place and there
were no mirrors.
And about a month in I was likeI feel way less bad about my
(22:04):
body.
Oh, I think that's because Idon't stare at it all day long
in all positions.
Huh, fascinating, fancy that.
Speaker 2 (22:13):
There's a whole thing about body checking and this is
really.
That's funny.
When I have my gym, I was intwo locations and my second
locations I didn't have mirrors,because I couldn't afford it,
because it's really expensive toyou know, yeah, um, and I
enjoyed it, and I did havefeedback from some people like,
oh, I wish I had mirrors and I'mlike I, I think we're good
(22:36):
because also it's it's learningthat feedback from yourself, um,
yeah, and then what it lookslike here.
Speaker 1 (22:45):
Yeah, the way that we naturally acquire movement
skills and you can see this ifyou watch children under five is
that we relate to ourenvironment and try to do things
right.
You watch like a toddler tryingto pull up for the first time.
They try and they fail and theygo.
Well, that didn't work.
They don't beat themselves upabout it or make a story about
(23:07):
that failure, they just tryagain until they figure it out.
And then it kind of becomes agame like oh, if I can do it
like this, can I do it like this, can I do it like that, can I
do it like this?
Right, they're buildingstrength and endurance that
whole time, but it's a game forthem.
So like the way that we areevolutionarily wired to acquire
physical skills and expand ourphysical capacities is through
(23:29):
like curiosity, play andexperimentation and internal
feedback loops slash, likeenvironmental feedback loops,
right, like if you fall on thefloor hard, that hurts and you
go, oh, I don't want to do thatagain.
And so then you figure out howto land softer next time.
But like that's the coach thatwe're meant to have.
(23:52):
But we've been completely cutoff from trusting that pathway
as adults because we've hadthese, like you know, pe great
example, right, the presidentialfitness test was big when I was
in middle school and highschool, and so it was like all
human bodies should be able todo a pull up or at least a bent
arm hang.
And I was like, have you seenmy lower half compared to my
(24:16):
upper half?
No, that's not the same liftfor me that it is, for you know,
skinny legs, friend, over herewith the buff arms, like it's
not an equivalent task.
Yeah, anyway, uh.
But yeah, we have pe, we havefitness videos right, where
we've got instructors largelyhave like skewed toward
(24:41):
believing and reinforcing thelaziness myth.
Right, human beings areinherently lazy.
Uh, some people even back thatup with some weird evolutionary
biology stuff that doesn'ttotally track for me.
So they're always going to needsomeone to like prod them into
doing what's best for them andexercising.
And so then we're already inthis coercive dynamic with the
(25:03):
instructor where they areassuming that we're going to be
resistant and that their job isto force us to override that
resistance.
How, in that environment, areyou supposed to listen to
yourself and honor yourself?
Like it's impossible, right, sowe get really cut off from
trusting our internalinformation well, I mean, what's
(25:24):
the profit motive of youlistening to yourself Like?
okay, well, now.
Speaker 2 (25:29):
Janet's just exercising at home by herself,
Like how am I supposed to makeany money off that?
Speaker 1 (25:35):
Yeah, yeah, I mean I I realized this is maybe not the
best for my business model, butlike I would love for all of
the people I work with tograduate from my services.
That's what feels morallycorrect to me, because I feel
like the only reason I have ajob is that our society is so
(25:55):
messed up that I have to go inand like repair.
My friend calls me the couplestherapist for the relationship
you have with your body.
I'm like, okay, I'm here tointervene and restore
communication and restoregoodwill and remind you that
you're on the same team, andthen off you go, like there
should be a point at which youdo not need me because this,
(26:16):
this thing that I'm teaching, isa thing that belongs to human
beings inherently and then getslike yanked away from us yanked
away from us.
Speaker 2 (26:25):
Do you feel like, do you talk about, like the systems
that created this?
A lot Cause I find I do thatall the time, because I feel
like people blame themselves forwherever they are and I'm like,
oh my gosh, you have been aperfect soldier, like for
capitalism, for misogyny, likefor patriarchy, like whatever
(26:45):
you, you've aced this, yeah.
Speaker 1 (26:48):
Yeah, yeah, we, we do especially in.
So in body liberationplayground we have like
community circles, which is kindof like kind of like an AA
meeting, like you share part ofyour story.
People listen.
If you want responses you canask for them, but we don't give
advice, and so a lot of what weend up talking about and kind of
lovingly commiserating on arethose pieces where the person is
(27:14):
like self blaming orinternalizing that system and
then the people listening can belike, hey, that sounds like
ableism and that's not yourfault and like you deserve the
accommodations that you need.
And like part of what's coolabout that sort of technology of
circling is that when you'rethe listener, you access
(27:35):
compassion so immediately forthe other person and if they're
saying something that they'restruggling with, that you also
struggle with.
You have this moment whereyou're like, huh, if I can be
nice to them about this, maybe Ialso deserve kindness and it's
a.
(27:57):
It feels like a shortcut througha lot of the like unshaming
work that so many of us needaround our bodies and our
relationship to movement or notmoving enough or not looking the
way we think we should look ornot being as able bodied and
like healthy as we think weshould be.
Like that's the other thing.
I end up talking with folks alot in the fitness space, like
(28:18):
even if you manage to getyourself out of the diet culture
storm and that's what happenedto me then you often land in the
like wellness version offitness, which is all about like
deifying this health archetypethat is like so inaccessible.
It's like the new thin womanfor health thing.
(28:40):
You're supposed to be able tolike deadlift 300 pounds and
never get sick and like be ableto do a backbend.
And like if you get injuredit's completely your fault
because you were overtraining oryou weren't listening right,
like there's so much.
Your hair should also be veryglossy while you're doing this
yes, and your skin should besmooth and never break out if
(29:01):
you're eating the right foodsand sweating enough, but not
sweating too much.
Yeah, and it's just a.
It's like you kind of swap onedemon for another, and it's
essentially still the sameparadigm of like your enoughness
is at stake if you don'tperform X, y and Z correctly.
And that's another piece that Ireally work with folks to
(29:24):
unlearn is be like, hey, asyou're having this sudden desire
to pick up running again, isyour enoughness at stake or is
this actually something thatyou're adding to your life as an
enrichment, as an enjoyment, asa service to you, from a place
of like oh, I'm enough and I'dlike some more endurance because
(29:48):
I want to be able to keep upwith my two-year-old.
Or like I want to be able to gohiking for longer Cause I like
being outdoors and it's good formy brain, right, like those
kinds of moments where we'reable to connect fitness goals to
like values and like lifeenrichment goals.
Like that's a really fertileplace to explore, but it's, it's
(30:11):
nuanced, it's it's a littletough as soon as we're seeking
change and improvement.
Quote unquote it's a.
It's a place that we can wobbleand sort of get into that like
oh, like.
Am I defining my worth by howwell I expand my endurance or
(30:32):
how much I can deadlift, orspeaking for a friend?
Speaker 2 (30:38):
Somebody I knew.
But yeah, I think that metricsUm, and I did an episode
recently with like um, two of myclosest friends of you know 30
some years about.
You know that early message ofbeing exceptional and the awards
(31:00):
and the kudos and admirationand your parents tell other
people you're exceptional andthen when you get to a place of
like okay, well, now I feelbroken because I'm doing all of
this work to be exceptional andlearning to like.
I was just doing a talkyesterday and talking about like
being good enough and I thinkthat is such an assault on the
(31:21):
value so many of us grow up withlike good enough.
Are you talking like B minuslike?
Speaker 1 (31:26):
Oh boy, that's going to be in my wheelhouse, um no, I
was definitely the kid that gotan A plus in the like AP course
.
Like, yeah, definitely alwaysstriving for the top marks, and
yeah, I really I had a deep nodwhen you were, like when you're
told that you are exceptionalearly on and then you feel like
(31:48):
it becomes a standard you haveto maintain, or like who doesn't
love that applause, you know?
Speaker 2 (31:54):
and admiration and like, who doesn't love that
applause and admiration and like, okay, now I'm valid and this
is when, and then what?
Then everything else feels likesub and it's like, yeah, this
is just a Tuesday, we're allgood, it's fine, but you're
missing that.
Speaker 1 (32:12):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (32:13):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (32:14):
I think too, like just to pull these two things
apart a little bit, I think thedesire for affirmation cause
I've realized like that's reallyone of my love languages.
Like I like attention, I likepositive attention, hello,
performer, I like, I like to behyped, I like to be, like you
(32:35):
know, lavished with praise.
I don't think there's anythingwrong with that if I'm not
making my enoughness at stakeand if I'm allowing and inviting
the right people to likecelebrate me for the things that
are important to me.
So, like, another thing wepractice a lot in the body
(32:56):
liberation playground is likelet's help each other celebrate
the things that don't feel worthcelebrating.
Right, because, like, whenyou're healing, the tiniest
incremental progress sometimesis like so hard and you're like
from the outside, like no one'sgoing to even recognize this,
like this is not impressive toanyone.
But it's like if we can get inthere and be like, no, we know
this is a big deal for you, likethat we can kind of use that
(33:19):
like desire for praise andaffirmation to help ourselves
celebrate the tiny littlemilestones that, like your
inside brain is like that's notenough, that doesn't count,
that's not exceptional, right?
Like we can kind of likethere's a component of it that
can be maladaptive, but I thinkthere's a component of it that
we can use to support ourselves.
Speaker 2 (33:43):
Yeah, no, I get that, and I think that community like
you have is really important,because things sound different
in our head and I think once westart saying things out loud but
also listening to other peoplelike if you're listening to
somebody who's being cruel tothemselves, it's so much easier
to be like Whoa, like you know,we don't need that, and you know
to be able to speak up and Ithink that is the beauty of of
(34:08):
having a community, because whatit's hard to find like a
community that you have, that isabout positivity and tuning in.
Um, and you know, taking care ofyourself in a healthy way, um,
like you know you're goingagainst.
You know the other 23 hours ofthe day that are like I don't
(34:30):
know.
She did full pull ups so Idon't know if your pull-ups
really count.
You know everything iscomparing and contrasting and
all of those messages about youknow badassery or doing the most
like.
Speaker 1 (34:44):
Yeah, yeah.
It's like let's celebrate doingthe least, but like doing it
somewhat consistently.
That's what we're about in BLP.
Yeah, I literally say to peopledo less more often.
That's my most common fitnessadvice.
So you've got.
Speaker 2 (35:02):
You've got some t-shirts um, because I think.
Um, what did you say about?
I feel like one had moist in it.
Speaker 1 (35:13):
Well, we'll have the recording.
So yeah's something about youknow um which.
Speaker 2 (35:18):
Now I know a couple people that are like I can't
believe.
You said the word moist.
I don't have a problem withword moist.
Some people really don't likeit.
It sounds like what it is itjust yeah means it's a little
bit wet.
I don't understand the problem.
Um, and now I do have aquestion, a listener inspired
(35:38):
question, about being able todevelop skill sets to know when
going back to activity is good.
So, if this, this is after theflu or you know an injury, like
how to assess, because I thinkillness is very challenging for
(36:01):
people because, again, there'slike rules of like oh, if it's
in your head, if it's in yourlungs, but I feel like there
have to be like more innatetools than like a mnemonic
device to tell you like yeah, togo.
Speaker 1 (36:17):
That's a really good question.
Well, and especially with COVID, my friend sent me these like
return to exercise guidelinesfor COVID and it is way more
gradual than I would havethought.
So one anytime we get derailedfrom an established movement
(36:39):
routine by illness, injury,travel, what have you?
That is often a place wherethere can be a lot of anxiety
for folks of like oh no, I'm outof my groove, am I going to get
back in?
How soon can I get back in?
And so number one is like canyou notice that anxiety and like
create a little space there?
(37:01):
Because I don't believe thelaziness myth.
I again watching young children.
All they do is move and exploretheir movement capacities.
That is like wildlyentertaining for them.
So I personally believe thatwhen we strip away all the
things that are in the way of usenjoying curiously enjoying
(37:24):
movement, we will come to aplace where we inherently like
crave it and we can trust thatcraving to return.
So that's sort of like.
The overarching thing is likeif you've been sick and you're
feeling run down after beingsick, like do you want to move?
Then like move a little bit.
If you really don't want to,like, trust that.
I think often there's a like inthat anxiety.
(37:46):
We're trying to like get backin the groove as soon as we can,
because we're afraid that thelonger we go without, the more
likely it is that we will neverget back in, or something like
that, right?
So I think?
I think it's actually reallygood to have experiences of
falling off the wagon andgetting back on, because you
start to trust that that can bepart of your cyclical, seasonal
(38:10):
relationship with movement.
Yeah, I think the biggest bit,one of the biggest problems with
the way we conceptualize afitness, is that it should be
like a linear upward trajectoryat all times and nothing in
nature operates that way, likewe are a part of nature.
Speaker 2 (38:28):
Hello, yeah, I think it's.
Oh, I was just going to saybeing comfortable, modifying or
stopping because obviously, likeafter you are sick or well, it
was me a sec, like my husband, Idonated blood, my gym had a
blood drive and then we went thenext day to work out and I was
(38:48):
like I haven't donated blood in20 years and I I didn't know.
And then I was just like whatis happening?
And so I was just there, likeyou know, doing a little, some
dying bugs on my back and likejust stretching.
I was like I tried to lift upsome stuff and that didn't go
well.
So step down, step down, stepdown.
(39:10):
And I think that can beuncomfortable for people to stop
and and change directions whenreally it's so smart to do yeah
totally yeah.
Speaker 1 (39:24):
So I think the other thing that can be helpful in
this instance, uh, is like, ifyou think of movement as like a
slider or like a spectrum,there's like high intensity at
one end and there's like verylow intensity, like just the
natural movements of your body,right, if you are alive and
(39:45):
breathing, you are moving, evenif you are sitting still,
because your lungs are inflatingand deflating and that creates
a certain amount of movement.
If you're fidgeting at yourdesk, that is moving your body
right.
But we tend to think of it interms of like an on-off switch,
like you're either active oryou're sedentary, and that's
just incorrect.
So if we can like start tothink of it as a slider, most of
(40:07):
the things that we think of asexercise or like movement, that
quote unquote counts, whichagain really comes from that
weight centric paradigm.
So something to interrogate.
But like most of that is on thelike mid to high intensity
spectrum.
We don't have a lot ofvocabulary for movement in the
like medium, low.
(40:29):
Gentle, I was just talking withmy friend who's a pole vaulter
and she was like I might doactive recovery and I was like,
right, like most people don'tknow about, like that's not a
general population concept,that's only something that like
really high level athletes whoprioritize recovery start to get
into.
But like moving your body inways that just feel good is
(40:51):
active recovery.
That has like incrediblebenefits for your physiology,
your mental health.
It helps you get back to theintensity sooner.
So like, if you're feeling alittle crummy or a little under
the weather, like what is thegentlest way that you could
imagine moving your body, try alittle bit of that and then see
(41:12):
how you feel.
In BLP we call it the saltinemethod, which is like if you're
feeling a little nauseous andyou can't tell if you're hungry
or you need to throw up, youtake the tiniest nibble of a
saltine and then you go how's mybody reacting to this?
So, like similar with movement,do like you know a few cat cows
or a little like stretch orsome you know shoulder circles
(41:35):
and then go.
How do I feel?
Do I want more like that?
Do I want more of somethingdifferent?
Do I feel a little woozy?
And I want to lay down and thenfollow where that leads.
Right, like the body is areally great self
experimentation container.
So if we just like give it alittle input and then notice
(41:58):
what we notice and then adjustwhat we do next based on what we
notice.
You can trust that.
Speaker 2 (42:05):
Excellent, excellent, I think, information for
somebody to really startthinking about, which, you know,
talking about noticing insteadof following instructions.
Notice what's going on.
Speaker 1 (42:19):
Yeah, right, and I feel like even with that
question that you asked, I waslike, oh, I'm not giving an
answer here, like I'm givingframeworks because that's what
makes sense to me.
Like human individual bodiesare so different and unique,
which is why guidelines onreturn to exercise from any
(42:39):
sickness for the populationmakes zero sense to me, like
that is like deeply unscientific.
Speaker 2 (42:45):
Yeah, well, where can people?
Speaker 1 (42:48):
find you.
So my website ishannahusbandcom very creative
but gets the job done.
Um.
You can check out bodyliberation playground there, um,
and my other programs andofferings.
Uh, I'm also on instagram,though.
It's a love hate relationship,uh, which is also at h husband.
Speaker 2 (43:12):
Excellent, all right.
Well, I hope people reach outbecause again, I think you just
never have enough communitythat's telling you you're enough
, you're doing a great job andreally focusing on like what
works for you and helping youdesign that.
Yeah Well, thanks for beinghere.
(43:33):
It was very fun chatting withyou.
Speaker 1 (43:36):
Yes, thank you for having me.
This was a delight.
All right, take care.
Speaker 2 (43:40):
Bye.
As always, please follow showor you can leave a five-star
review on Apple or Spotify.
That would be fun too.
See you in the next episode.
sensing our internal environment, one skill being
able to articulate that internalenvironment and like interpret
those sensations and value them.
Also, not something that'staught, especially in the
fitness industry.
Right, the fitness paradigm islike I have hired you, the
expert, you are going to knowexactly what my body needs.
And I'm like cool, no, you'velived in your body your whole
(00:23):
ass life.
I've just met you Like I haveexercise knowledge, but like you
are in your body, like you'rethe expert of your body.
Speaker 2 (00:34):
Hi and welcome to the Air ReBreathe finding
well-being that works for you.
I'm your host, heatherSayers-Layman.
I'm a National Board CertifiedHealth and Wellness Coach,
certified Intuitive EatingCounselor and certified personal
trainer.
I help you get organized andconsistent with healthy habits,
without rules, obsession orexhaustion.
This podcast may contain talkabout eating disorders and
(00:57):
disordered eating.
There could also be some adultlanguage here.
Choose wisely if those areproblematic for you.
Hi and welcome to this episodeof the Air we Breathe.
Today I'm chatting with HannahHusband, who is a body
liberation coach, and Hannah andI both came up through the same
(01:22):
fitness format where basically,fitness exercise, physical
activity, whatever you want tocall it is to change your body.
That could be losing weight,elongating your muscles, barf,
snatching your waist, makingyour butt bigger whatever is
(01:43):
actually in vogue at that time.
Also, a big piece of thatfitness model is having a leader
.
So this is either a coach whenyou're younger and you're in
sports, or a fitness leader,that is, the expert positioned
to tell you what you should bedoing and how you should do it.
(02:05):
So some of the things wechatted about really are how can
you tune in to yourself andtune out a lot of these other
voices and the big piece of howto position yourself as your own
(02:27):
leader and you are able to askyourself a lot of different
questions what feels good rightnow?
What seems like too much?
If I'm sick, when do I know howto come back?
I definitely find, and wechatted about, like there are
all these different like rulesand regulations of, oh, you
(02:47):
recover this long and you knowyou need to make sure you're
doing it exactly this way andobviously, how can that fit
everyone?
So we really talk about how tomake your own decisions and be
your own fitness boss, if youwill.
I really had a good chat withHannah and I hope you enjoy this
episode.
Hi and welcome to this episode.
(03:08):
Today I'm chatting with HannahHusband and Hannah.
Why don't you just jump in andintroduce yourself?
Okay?
Speaker 1 (03:16):
So I call myself a body liberation coach.
I was a personal trainer andPilates instructor for a long
time and then, as I woke up toanti-fat bias and all of the
ways that that was influencingmy understanding of fitness, I
shifted my title.
So I support folks to healtheir relationship with their
(03:39):
bodies, really become friendswith their bodies and like
reclaim movement as a practicethat supports them holistically,
and I bring like a kind of likeplayful comedic spin to that
Cause.
I really believe that like itis serious work and we need to
make space for the grief and allof that and it could be fun.
Speaker 2 (04:01):
I don't even know what you're talking about.
It's gotta be hard.
It's gotta be hard, it's gottabe awful and we're going to hate
it, but we'll be happy whenwe're done Like that's right.
Yeah.
And then how did you come up?
We talked a little bit beforethis started on sort of like my
origin story.
But how did you come up throughthe world of fitness?
(04:22):
Sure, so I was a theater kid.
Theater and fitness are justbedfellows, yeah.
Speaker 1 (04:31):
I was literally just thinking about this today like
the, the pipeline from likeactor to some kind of body care
specialist, like massagetherapist, personal trainer,
yoga teacher, right To like somekind of coach therapist,
helping professional like thatpipeline is strong and I am on
(04:52):
it.
So that's the TLDR.
But yeah, I was a theater kidand I was not an athlete or a
sporty person.
I did not like step foot into agym until my 20s probably.
So I learned fitness as anadult and I really did learn it
in the like weight centricparadigm of the you know joyful
(05:14):
early 2000s, and I came to itfrom the lens of only skinny
girls get cast in leading roles,so I'd better be as thin as
possible.
Only skinny girls get cast inleading roles, so I'd better be
as thin as possible.
And I'd already flunked out ofdieting and so I was like, well,
maybe exercise will be my thing, maybe that's how I'll do it.
So that was my like entree intofitness for myself.
(05:37):
And then I really liked it,like I just would feel good
after going to a class, like mybrain would be clear.
I have ADHD, I now know, but Ididn't figure that out until I
was 39.
But I just would be like, wow,like my brain feels really clear
, I feel really like good andenergized and focused, and so
that was like kind of what keptme coming back for fitness on my
(06:01):
own like.
And then at a certain point Ilike, oh, maybe I could like be
an instructor and that could bemy like day job to support my
acting work while I'm being astarving artist.
So, yeah, that was how I gotinto.
I did personal trainingcertification in 2010, um, and I
worked as a trainer at thislike all women's gym in
(06:22):
Massachusetts that's kind of asmall local chain and got into
teaching Pilates there and thenmoved to California in 2014 and
was like, oh, I'll just work formyself, no big deal, just keep
doing what I'm doing.
But you know, without any ofthe infrastructure turns out
(06:43):
that was not super easy to do.
So I ended up working for acouple other like I worked for a
Pilates studio here in Oaklandand then I worked at a like,
kind of like functional fitnesssort of bootcampy style gym not
a CrossFit, but like CrossFitlight sort of thing and then my
(07:05):
friend at the time who was themanager there was like we should
maybe peel off and start ourown thing.
So we did that and I ran anin-person business from 2017
until 2021.
It did not survive the pandemic,but we did kind of like small
group strength training classes,very much like let's meet you
(07:27):
where you are really beginnerfriendly, very like size
inclusive in the way that weunderstood it at the time, but
still not really questioning thelike people are going to want
to lose weight and we're goingto need to support them with
that kind of paradigm of theindustry.
People are going to want tolose weight and we're going to
need to support them with thatkind of paradigm of the industry
.
We more took an approach oflike let's not do crazy
(07:49):
unhealthy things in the name ofweight loss.
But like I wasn't yet realizingthat intentional weight loss
pursuit was a scam entirely andI think part of that too, like
we were talking about earlier.
Like I was definitely lookingback at that time, I like, oh
yeah, I was really usingexercise to control my body, but
(08:09):
I was quote unquote successful,right.
So in my mind it worked and Ifelt morally comfortable like
helping other people do thatthing.
So, yeah, the pandemic forced usto shut down our freshly opened
studio and we had to kind ofmake an emergency pivot to doing
(08:32):
like an online membership.
And the blessing of that timewas that one of the things we
offered as part of that kind ofoh no, how do we do this?
Virtually kind of offering wasweekly coaching, phone call
check ins with our clients.
We had previously been doingsmall group classes, so you
(08:54):
didn't get a lot of chance tolike coach individuals.
Occasionally you'd have asidebar conversation with
someone where you'd actually getto like connect with them, but,
like once we moved to thevirtual version, a lot of the
job became how do I help coachmy clients to like keep their
movement practice going?
(09:14):
Because it's more self directednow, like we are providing them
these pre recorded classes butlike they have to make time to
do the thing Right.
And I really enjoyed thatcoaching part and so when that
business shut down, I was superburnt out so I took some time to
kind of like recover.
(09:36):
My plan was like I'm going todo nothing for a month and
literally like one week in Istarted getting just like.
I started waking up early inthe morning, no alarm, like I
was like I can finally sleep inat 530am I'd be like awake and
like having ideas and I wasessentially like having.
I call them downloads, becausethat's what it felt like.
(09:57):
I was just like having theseideas like arrive in my brain of
essentially a community that Iwanted to create.
That was about like supportingpeople in that coaching
conversation, like how do weshift our relationship to
movement from one of themovement is sacred and I must
ready myself and meet it and bea good mover, to how do I invite
(10:21):
movement to serve me in my lifeand how do I like hire movement
to play the role that I need itto play in this season of my
life, which might be differentthan past seasons or future
seasons, and got very like deepinto unlearning diet culture and
(10:48):
like really starting to see theways that I've been
participating in that weightcentric paradigm, even though I
thought I was like counter to itand yeah, so that's really how.
So now I have a, an onlinecommunity called the body
liberation playground, which wasthat idea that just started
like downloading into my brain,and I also do one-on-one work
with clients.
(11:08):
And then I have a like smallgroup beginner strength training
program called SeedlingStrength that I run a couple
times a year, but mostly in thevirtual realms, which is awesome
, kind of relatively new.
It's funny like I've been inbusiness for a long time for
myself, but I'm sort of still anewbie to the like online
business world didn't for acouple of years.
Speaker 2 (11:50):
So then you're doing a webinar and I'm literally
looking at the green dot and myslides no feedback.
Is this dumb?
Is this good?
Is it helpful?
And it is really challenging, Ithink because you get so much
from people's faces of like anod yes, they get it, they get
it or a confused look and Ithink that, um, I mean like that
(12:13):
piece just can't be, like youknow, underplayed of how
challenging it is to learn towork in that way.
Speaker 1 (12:24):
Yeah yeah, when we first switched to a virtual
model in the early pandemic, Ihated teaching live classes on
Zoom because I was comparing itdirectly to teaching in person
and, to be fair, I'm a verykinesthetic, auditory human.
Those are my like dominant,preferred ways of interacting
(12:44):
with the world and learning andso when I'm in a room with
humans, I can tell if people arebreathing comfortably and
normally or if they've kind ofstopped breathing right Like.
I can sort of feel the vibe inthe room shift to one of like oh
, we hate this and be like okay,we need to change it up right
Like, and on zoom, I'm juststaring at the little square as
(13:05):
being like is are you getting it?
Are you feeling the right stuff?
Are you?
Do you hate this?
Do you like it?
I don't know.
And like you know a little bitof a recovering people pleaser.
So there was like thatnarrative present and I'm like
one of my superpowers slashtrauma coping strategies from
childhood is being like hyperattuned to people's emotional
(13:29):
tone, which again, when I'm inthe room teaching humans, I can
use that and over zoom it kindof doesn't work.
And so at first I just felt Iturned it in on myself and I was
like, oh, I'm not a goodteacher without this medium.
And now, having done a lot morelike personal development, work
(13:51):
and learning and justexperimenting, right, Like I'm
like, oh right, Like there arethings that don't translate over
Zoom, I teach movement live nowis that it puts more self
responsibility in the hands ofthe client to notice their body
and their internal state and topractice articulating that out
(14:15):
loud.
To me, which is a skill that wearen't largely taught, right,
Like sensing our internalenvironment one skill, being
able to articulate that internalenvironment.
And like interpret thosesensations and value them.
Also, not something that'staught, especially in the
(14:35):
fitness industry.
Right, the fitness paradigm islike I have hired you, the
expert, you are going to knowexactly what my body needs.
And I'm like, cool, no, you'velived in your body your whole
ass life.
I've just met you.
Like I have exercise knowledge.
But like you are in your body,Like you're the expert of your
(14:55):
body, you can feel your nervoussystem nervous system like state
shifts better than I can,Hopefully, Right, yeah, Again, a
skill to develop.
But like what I enjoy now aboutteaching online is that I get
to help people develop thoseskills and, in my mind like
(15:16):
that's way more valuable thanbecause what used to happen when
I taught in person, both one onones and classes, was that
people would show up and be likethis is amazing and then, if I
wasn't there to do the magicthing with them, nothing
happened, whereas now I'm liketeaching people the tools and
skills to like listen to theirbodies, check in with how things
(15:40):
are feeling in real time, makedecisions based on internal
feedback and like.
That is what actually I've foundlike empowers someone to like
shift their relationship tomovement in such a way that they
can self-generate versus alwaysbeing like well, no, I just I
need someone or I need a class.
I need a thing, not to say thatthat's wrong.
(16:02):
Right, like it's good to knowabout ourselves, what kind of
supports we need and source themwrong, right, like it's good to
know about ourselves what kindof supports we need and source
them.
Speaker 2 (16:09):
Do you feel like the do it yourself approach to
improving your healthy habitsdoes nothing except feel
overwhelming, guilt inducing anddefeating?
You don't need more rules,influencers or structured
programs.
Let me help you discover whatyou want, what works for you and
how to maintain healthy habitsduring the ever changing
circumstances of your life.
(16:31):
If you're ready to createsystems that stick head to
heathersayerslaymancom backslashhealth dash coaching and click,
let's do it.
I think it's so interestingbecause I find so much value in
everything that you're talkingabout, like, especially you know
(16:54):
, as my life changed when I hadmy thyroid out, like I cannot do
what I used to do, and I mean Ialso had this intersection of
you know, also had thisintersection of you know,
exercising for size, bodymaintenance and then illness.
That's like, haha, that's notgonna work anymore, you know,
(17:14):
eating disorders sprinkled in,and so you know, redefining my
relationship with how I move andI think one of the pieces that
I see that's very challengingfor others and and I think it's
easier for me just because Igrew up in the business.
So I know that my darling, youknow 22 and 23 year old trainers
(17:38):
that do our group training, youknow, are trained to do their
best and like I'll be doing thisexercise, or trained to do
their best and like I'll bedoing this exercise.
This is my modification, whichthey don't even ask anymore
because you know, um, or it'sfunny, I'm we're going to be out
of town for five weeks andwe'll go to a different gym and
I always have to gear up for the.
(17:59):
Yeah, I, I don't do those, I dothis, I don't do that one, I do
this Cause some people are, youknow very much, like Ooh, we
need you to, and it's like no,absolutely not.
But I think it makes adifference because I, you know,
certainly value, like I don'twant to get injured, like it's a
hassle, it's expensive.
(18:20):
So like what is it that youfeel like you do to help people,
feel like they actually havethe knowledge and authority to
speak up for themselves.
Speaker 1 (18:36):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
So there's a couple layers tothat project and it depends
where the person is startingfrom.
So even in my group programs, Ido like a one-on-one intake
with people to kind of get asense of like, okay, what's the
state of the union right now?
Like what is?
How would you describe yourrelationship with your body?
(18:57):
How, in tune with yoursensations and internal
environment do you think you are, which is different than what
actually is happening sometimes?
And then kind of, what's yourhistory with movement and
exercise and what do you wantthat to be Right?
And and then we kind of knowwhere we're starting from, right
(19:19):
.
So I think, like one of thebiggest pitfalls in the fitness
industry is that we don't spendenough time using movement as an
awareness practice.
Like we don't know what is whatis in terms of movement.
(19:40):
But then we're like, okay, Igot to go over here where it's
intense and hard and I got topush hard to get there.
And it're like, okay, I got togo over here where it's intense
and hard and I got to push hardto get there, and it's like, but
you don't know where you are.
So how do you take the rightamount of intensity to get the
adaptation that you want.
So I tend to start with teachingpeople that like using movement
as a self-awareness practice,moving as a way to like acquaint
(20:05):
yourself with your body andwith your ranges of motion, with
your body and with your rangesof motion and with your strength
and with your endurance, sothat you can help build the
vocabulary of where you are now.
Sometimes there are someimmediate sort of gains just
doing that, especially ifsomeone isn't moving much at all
, because motion is lotion andso we often like feel better if
(20:26):
we're just doing a little bitmore.
Movement also like supports themental health weasels, right,
but that's a big part of it isjust like can you engage with
movement not to fix or changeyour body, but to know it and to
compassionately, curiously,explore it and accept it?
And that is often likerevolutionary for folks because
(20:49):
they've never been invited to dothat.
Speaker 2 (20:52):
No, because I think the the overarching vibe,
whether it starts, you know, inathletics when you're young,
you're a PE teacher, is theresomebody here that knows more
than you?
And then that's right.
That person will be in chargeof this experience and even down
to like you know if you're inathletics, I mean your coach is
(21:13):
your feedback about yourtechnique or you know your
training, anything like that.
Speaker 1 (21:20):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, and I used to.
I came from that paradigm.
You know I was a high achieving, people pleaser, perfectionist
type.
I definitely took that into myexercise journey.
You know, pilates, hello,inhale as you do this, exhale as
you do that You're literallylike prescribing when the breath
(21:42):
happens.
When the breath happens and youknow I would like the Pilates
studio was full of mirrors, soI'd be watching myself and
checking my body the whole time.
And I remember when I moved toOakland I started working at the
like you know, bootcamp light,crossfit light place and there
were no mirrors.
And about a month in I was likeI feel way less bad about my
(22:04):
body.
Oh, I think that's because Idon't stare at it all day long
in all positions.
Huh, fascinating, fancy that.
Speaker 2 (22:13):
There's a whole thing about body checking and this is
really.
That's funny.
When I have my gym, I was intwo locations and my second
locations I didn't have mirrors,because I couldn't afford it,
because it's really expensive toyou know, yeah, um, and I
enjoyed it, and I did havefeedback from some people like,
oh, I wish I had mirrors and I'mlike I, I think we're good
(22:36):
because also it's it's learningthat feedback from yourself, um,
yeah, and then what it lookslike here.
Speaker 1 (22:45):
Yeah, the way that we naturally acquire movement
skills and you can see this ifyou watch children under five is
that we relate to ourenvironment and try to do things
right.
You watch like a toddler tryingto pull up for the first time.
They try and they fail and theygo.
Well, that didn't work.
They don't beat themselves upabout it or make a story about
(23:07):
that failure, they just tryagain until they figure it out.
And then it kind of becomes agame like oh, if I can do it
like this, can I do it like this, can I do it like that, can I
do it like this?
Right, they're buildingstrength and endurance that
whole time, but it's a game forthem.
So like the way that we areevolutionarily wired to acquire
physical skills and expand ourphysical capacities is through
(23:29):
like curiosity, play andexperimentation and internal
feedback loops slash, likeenvironmental feedback loops,
right, like if you fall on thefloor hard, that hurts and you
go, oh, I don't want to do thatagain.
And so then you figure out howto land softer next time.
But like that's the coach thatwe're meant to have.
(23:52):
But we've been completely cutoff from trusting that pathway
as adults because we've hadthese, like you know, pe great
example, right, the presidentialfitness test was big when I was
in middle school and highschool, and so it was like all
human bodies should be able todo a pull up or at least a bent
arm hang.
And I was like, have you seenmy lower half compared to my
(24:16):
upper half?
No, that's not the same liftfor me that it is, for you know,
skinny legs, friend, over herewith the buff arms, like it's
not an equivalent task.
Yeah, anyway, uh.
But yeah, we have pe, we havefitness videos right, where
we've got instructors largelyhave like skewed toward
(24:41):
believing and reinforcing thelaziness myth.
Right, human beings areinherently lazy.
Uh, some people even back thatup with some weird evolutionary
biology stuff that doesn'ttotally track for me.
So they're always going to needsomeone to like prod them into
doing what's best for them andexercising.
And so then we're already inthis coercive dynamic with the
(25:03):
instructor where they areassuming that we're going to be
resistant and that their job isto force us to override that
resistance.
How, in that environment, areyou supposed to listen to
yourself and honor yourself?
Like it's impossible, right, sowe get really cut off from
trusting our internalinformation well, I mean, what's
(25:24):
the profit motive of youlistening to yourself Like?
okay, well, now.
Speaker 2 (25:29):
Janet's just exercising at home by herself,
Like how am I supposed to makeany money off that?
Speaker 1 (25:35):
Yeah, yeah, I mean I I realized this is maybe not the
best for my business model, butlike I would love for all of
the people I work with tograduate from my services.
That's what feels morallycorrect to me, because I feel
like the only reason I have ajob is that our society is so
(25:55):
messed up that I have to go inand like repair.
My friend calls me the couplestherapist for the relationship
you have with your body.
I'm like, okay, I'm here tointervene and restore
communication and restoregoodwill and remind you that
you're on the same team, andthen off you go, like there
should be a point at which youdo not need me because this,
(26:16):
this thing that I'm teaching, isa thing that belongs to human
beings inherently and then getslike yanked away from us yanked
away from us.
Speaker 2 (26:25):
Do you feel like, do you talk about, like the systems
that created this?
A lot Cause I find I do thatall the time, because I feel
like people blame themselves forwherever they are and I'm like,
oh my gosh, you have been aperfect soldier, like for
capitalism, for misogyny, likefor patriarchy, like whatever
(26:45):
you, you've aced this, yeah.
Speaker 1 (26:48):
Yeah, yeah, we, we do especially in.
So in body liberationplayground we have like
community circles, which is kindof like kind of like an AA
meeting, like you share part ofyour story.
People listen.
If you want responses you canask for them, but we don't give
advice, and so a lot of what weend up talking about and kind of
lovingly commiserating on arethose pieces where the person is
(27:14):
like self blaming orinternalizing that system and
then the people listening can belike, hey, that sounds like
ableism and that's not yourfault and like you deserve the
accommodations that you need.
And like part of what's coolabout that sort of technology of
circling is that when you'rethe listener, you access
(27:35):
compassion so immediately forthe other person and if they're
saying something that they'restruggling with, that you also
struggle with.
You have this moment whereyou're like, huh, if I can be
nice to them about this, maybe Ialso deserve kindness and it's
a.
(27:57):
It feels like a shortcut througha lot of the like unshaming
work that so many of us needaround our bodies and our
relationship to movement or notmoving enough or not looking the
way we think we should look ornot being as able bodied and
like healthy as we think weshould be.
Like that's the other thing.
I end up talking with folks alot in the fitness space, like
(28:18):
even if you manage to getyourself out of the diet culture
storm and that's what happenedto me then you often land in the
like wellness version offitness, which is all about like
deifying this health archetypethat is like so inaccessible.
It's like the new thin womanfor health thing.
(28:40):
You're supposed to be able tolike deadlift 300 pounds and
never get sick and like be ableto do a backbend.
And like if you get injuredit's completely your fault
because you were overtraining oryou weren't listening right,
like there's so much.
Your hair should also be veryglossy while you're doing this
yes, and your skin should besmooth and never break out if
(29:01):
you're eating the right foodsand sweating enough, but not
sweating too much.
Yeah, and it's just a.
It's like you kind of swap onedemon for another, and it's
essentially still the sameparadigm of like your enoughness
is at stake if you don'tperform X, y and Z correctly.
And that's another piece that Ireally work with folks to
(29:24):
unlearn is be like, hey, asyou're having this sudden desire
to pick up running again, isyour enoughness at stake or is
this actually something thatyou're adding to your life as an
enrichment, as an enjoyment, asa service to you, from a place
of like oh, I'm enough and I'dlike some more endurance because
(29:48):
I want to be able to keep upwith my two-year-old.
Or like I want to be able to gohiking for longer Cause I like
being outdoors and it's good formy brain, right, like those
kinds of moments where we'reable to connect fitness goals to
like values and like lifeenrichment goals.
Like that's a really fertileplace to explore, but it's, it's
(30:11):
nuanced, it's it's a littletough as soon as we're seeking
change and improvement.
Quote unquote it's a.
It's a place that we can wobbleand sort of get into that like
oh, like.
Am I defining my worth by howwell I expand my endurance or
(30:32):
how much I can deadlift, orspeaking for a friend?
Speaker 2 (30:38):
Somebody I knew.
But yeah, I think that metricsUm, and I did an episode
recently with like um, two of myclosest friends of you know 30
some years about.
You know that early message ofbeing exceptional and the awards
(31:00):
and the kudos and admirationand your parents tell other
people you're exceptional andthen when you get to a place of
like okay, well, now I feelbroken because I'm doing all of
this work to be exceptional andlearning to like.
I was just doing a talkyesterday and talking about like
being good enough and I thinkthat is such an assault on the
(31:21):
value so many of us grow up withlike good enough.
Are you talking like B minuslike?
Speaker 1 (31:26):
Oh boy, that's going to be in my wheelhouse, um no, I
was definitely the kid that gotan A plus in the like AP course
.
Like, yeah, definitely alwaysstriving for the top marks, and
yeah, I really I had a deep nodwhen you were, like when you're
told that you are exceptionalearly on and then you feel like
(31:48):
it becomes a standard you haveto maintain, or like who doesn't
love that applause, you know?
Speaker 2 (31:54):
and admiration and like, who doesn't love that
applause and admiration and like, okay, now I'm valid and this
is when, and then what?
Then everything else feels likesub and it's like, yeah, this
is just a Tuesday, we're allgood, it's fine, but you're
missing that.
Speaker 1 (32:12):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (32:13):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (32:14):
I think too, like just to pull these two things
apart a little bit, I think thedesire for affirmation cause
I've realized like that's reallyone of my love languages.
Like I like attention, I likepositive attention, hello,
performer, I like, I like to behyped, I like to be, like you
(32:35):
know, lavished with praise.
I don't think there's anythingwrong with that if I'm not
making my enoughness at stakeand if I'm allowing and inviting
the right people to likecelebrate me for the things that
are important to me.
So, like, another thing wepractice a lot in the body
(32:56):
liberation playground is likelet's help each other celebrate
the things that don't feel worthcelebrating.
Right, because, like, whenyou're healing, the tiniest
incremental progress sometimesis like so hard and you're like
from the outside, like no one'sgoing to even recognize this,
like this is not impressive toanyone.
But it's like if we can get inthere and be like, no, we know
this is a big deal for you, likethat we can kind of use that
(33:19):
like desire for praise andaffirmation to help ourselves
celebrate the tiny littlemilestones that, like your
inside brain is like that's notenough, that doesn't count,
that's not exceptional, right?
Like we can kind of likethere's a component of it that
can be maladaptive, but I thinkthere's a component of it that
we can use to support ourselves.
Speaker 2 (33:43):
Yeah, no, I get that, and I think that community like
you have is really important,because things sound different
in our head and I think once westart saying things out loud but
also listening to other peoplelike if you're listening to
somebody who's being cruel tothemselves, it's so much easier
to be like Whoa, like you know,we don't need that, and you know
to be able to speak up and Ithink that is the beauty of of
(34:08):
having a community, because whatit's hard to find like a
community that you have, that isabout positivity and tuning in.
Um, and you know, taking care ofyourself in a healthy way, um,
like you know you're goingagainst.
You know the other 23 hours ofthe day that are like I don't
(34:30):
know.
She did full pull ups so Idon't know if your pull-ups
really count.
You know everything iscomparing and contrasting and
all of those messages about youknow badassery or doing the most
like.
Speaker 1 (34:44):
Yeah, yeah.
It's like let's celebrate doingthe least, but like doing it
somewhat consistently.
That's what we're about in BLP.
Yeah, I literally say to peopledo less more often.
That's my most common fitnessadvice.
So you've got.
Speaker 2 (35:02):
You've got some t-shirts um, because I think.
Um, what did you say about?
I feel like one had moist in it.
Speaker 1 (35:13):
Well, we'll have the recording.
So yeah's something about youknow um which.
Speaker 2 (35:18):
Now I know a couple people that are like I can't
believe.
You said the word moist.
I don't have a problem withword moist.
Some people really don't likeit.
It sounds like what it is itjust yeah means it's a little
bit wet.
I don't understand the problem.
Um, and now I do have aquestion, a listener inspired
(35:38):
question, about being able todevelop skill sets to know when
going back to activity is good.
So, if this, this is after theflu or you know an injury, like
how to assess, because I thinkillness is very challenging for
(36:01):
people because, again, there'slike rules of like oh, if it's
in your head, if it's in yourlungs, but I feel like there
have to be like more innatetools than like a mnemonic
device to tell you like yeah, togo.
Speaker 1 (36:17):
That's a really good question.
Well, and especially with COVID, my friend sent me these like
return to exercise guidelinesfor COVID and it is way more
gradual than I would havethought.
So one anytime we get derailedfrom an established movement
(36:39):
routine by illness, injury,travel, what have you?
That is often a place wherethere can be a lot of anxiety
for folks of like oh no, I'm outof my groove, am I going to get
back in?
How soon can I get back in?
And so number one is like canyou notice that anxiety and like
create a little space there?
(37:01):
Because I don't believe thelaziness myth.
I again watching young children.
All they do is move and exploretheir movement capacities.
That is like wildlyentertaining for them.
So I personally believe thatwhen we strip away all the
things that are in the way of usenjoying curiously enjoying
(37:24):
movement, we will come to aplace where we inherently like
crave it and we can trust thatcraving to return.
So that's sort of like.
The overarching thing is likeif you've been sick and you're
feeling run down after beingsick, like do you want to move?
Then like move a little bit.
If you really don't want to,like, trust that.
I think often there's a like inthat anxiety.
(37:46):
We're trying to like get backin the groove as soon as we can,
because we're afraid that thelonger we go without, the more
likely it is that we will neverget back in, or something like
that, right?
So I think?
I think it's actually reallygood to have experiences of
falling off the wagon andgetting back on, because you
start to trust that that can bepart of your cyclical, seasonal
(38:10):
relationship with movement.
Yeah, I think the biggest bit,one of the biggest problems with
the way we conceptualize afitness, is that it should be
like a linear upward trajectoryat all times and nothing in
nature operates that way, likewe are a part of nature.
Speaker 2 (38:28):
Hello, yeah, I think it's.
Oh, I was just going to saybeing comfortable, modifying or
stopping because obviously, likeafter you are sick or well, it
was me a sec, like my husband, Idonated blood, my gym had a
blood drive and then we went thenext day to work out and I was
(38:48):
like I haven't donated blood in20 years and I I didn't know.
And then I was just like whatis happening?
And so I was just there, likeyou know, doing a little, some
dying bugs on my back and likejust stretching.
I was like I tried to lift upsome stuff and that didn't go
well.
So step down, step down, stepdown.
(39:10):
And I think that can beuncomfortable for people to stop
and and change directions whenreally it's so smart to do yeah
totally yeah.
Speaker 1 (39:24):
So I think the other thing that can be helpful in
this instance, uh, is like, ifyou think of movement as like a
slider or like a spectrum,there's like high intensity at
one end and there's like verylow intensity, like just the
natural movements of your body,right, if you are alive and
(39:45):
breathing, you are moving, evenif you are sitting still,
because your lungs are inflatingand deflating and that creates
a certain amount of movement.
If you're fidgeting at yourdesk, that is moving your body
right.
But we tend to think of it interms of like an on-off switch,
like you're either active oryou're sedentary, and that's
just incorrect.
So if we can like start tothink of it as a slider, most of
(40:07):
the things that we think of asexercise or like movement, that
quote unquote counts, whichagain really comes from that
weight centric paradigm.
So something to interrogate.
But like most of that is on thelike mid to high intensity
spectrum.
We don't have a lot ofvocabulary for movement in the
like medium, low.
(40:29):
Gentle, I was just talking withmy friend who's a pole vaulter
and she was like I might doactive recovery and I was like,
right, like most people don'tknow about, like that's not a
general population concept,that's only something that like
really high level athletes whoprioritize recovery start to get
into.
But like moving your body inways that just feel good is
(40:51):
active recovery.
That has like incrediblebenefits for your physiology,
your mental health.
It helps you get back to theintensity sooner.
So like, if you're feeling alittle crummy or a little under
the weather, like what is thegentlest way that you could
imagine moving your body, try alittle bit of that and then see
(41:12):
how you feel.
In BLP we call it the saltinemethod, which is like if you're
feeling a little nauseous andyou can't tell if you're hungry
or you need to throw up, youtake the tiniest nibble of a
saltine and then you go how's mybody reacting to this?
So, like similar with movement,do like you know a few cat cows
or a little like stretch orsome you know shoulder circles
(41:35):
and then go.
How do I feel?
Do I want more like that?
Do I want more of somethingdifferent?
Do I feel a little woozy?
And I want to lay down and thenfollow where that leads.
Right, like the body is areally great self
experimentation container.
So if we just like give it alittle input and then notice
(41:58):
what we notice and then adjustwhat we do next based on what we
notice.
You can trust that.
Speaker 2 (42:05):
Excellent, excellent, I think, information for
somebody to really startthinking about, which, you know,
talking about noticing insteadof following instructions.
Notice what's going on.
Speaker 1 (42:19):
Yeah, right, and I feel like even with that
question that you asked, I waslike, oh, I'm not giving an
answer here, like I'm givingframeworks because that's what
makes sense to me.
Like human individual bodiesare so different and unique,
which is why guidelines onreturn to exercise from any
(42:39):
sickness for the populationmakes zero sense to me, like
that is like deeply unscientific.
Speaker 2 (42:45):
Yeah, well, where can people?
Speaker 1 (42:48):
find you.
So my website ishannahusbandcom very creative
but gets the job done.
Um.
You can check out bodyliberation playground there, um,
and my other programs andofferings.
Uh, I'm also on instagram,though.
It's a love hate relationship,uh, which is also at h husband.
Speaker 2 (43:12):
Excellent, all right.
Well, I hope people reach outbecause again, I think you just
never have enough communitythat's telling you you're enough
, you're doing a great job andreally focusing on like what
works for you and helping youdesign that.
Yeah Well, thanks for beinghere.
(43:33):
It was very fun chatting withyou.
Speaker 1 (43:36):
Yes, thank you for having me.
This was a delight.
All right, take care.
Speaker 2 (43:40):
Bye.
As always, please follow showor you can leave a five-star
review on Apple or Spotify.
That would be fun too.
See you in the next episode.
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