Embark on an insider's exploration of the Airsoft world with Michael Massicotte, as I sit down with the battle-hardened veterans of Team Echo, Mike McGeorge and Kyle Kakei. This episode promises a deep dive into the heart of Airsoft culture, dissecting the evolution of a team that's set new benchmarks for mil-sim engagement in Ontario. We're not just pulling triggers; we're crafting narratives – and you're about to find out how our upcoming game at the compound is set to redefine immersive gameplay.
Winning isn't just about scores when it comes to Airsoft military simulations, it's about the strategy, the camaraderie, and the realism that players bring to the field. In a candid conversation with my guests, we unravel the complexities of victory in mil-sim – a nuanced dance of tactical decisions and geopolitical underpinnings that echo real-world conflicts. We'll also touch on the rigors of Airsoft combat, from the adrenaline rush of a frag grenade to the critical role of medical rules, and how these elements shape the authenticity of the encounter.
Stepping into the realm of game hosting, we set the scene for an upcoming Airsoft event that holds safety and integrity in high regard, seeking out participants who embody a genuine respect for the sport. Mike, Kyle, and I discuss the stringent guidelines that maintain the pulse of the game, ensuring that every player's experience is nothing short of exceptional. As we conclude, we tease the transformative changes on the horizon for Ontario Airsoft and invite our listeners to gear up for the collaborative and exhilarating future that awaits at the compound.
Action Airsoft Club
www.actionairsoft.ca 905-615-7757
Ballistic Prints
www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100089181244866
SlingX
www.slingx.ca
Lightfighter Milsim Airsoft Team www.facebook.com/lightfightersmilsim
Nsceibelab Laser Designs
www,facebook.com/profile.php?id=100089285134479
Army Issue Surplus Inc.
www.armyissue.com 905-271-1665
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Parental advisory.
Now welcome to the Airsoftexperience 6-1.
We have contact left, side 70.
Coming to you Contact leftcontact left.
Speaker 3 (00:13):
We're flanking left side.
Suppress, Push, push, push,we're moving.
We're moving Right side, rightside.
Speaker 1 (00:24):
Alright, and welcome to a special episode of the
Airsoft experience.
I am your host, michael Mascott, also known as Magic in Ontario
Airsoft, and today we've gotnot so new dudes in Ontario
Airsoft but new-ish to the newgame host scene and I wanted to
quickly get a quick episode outabout this new, not new, crew
(00:49):
called Team Echo and we haveMike McGeorge, the leader of the
team, and Kyle Kukai, kukai,kukai Fuck, I knew I was going
to fuck that up.
Sort of Kyle.
All good, welcome to theAirsoft experience.
Thanks for having us.
Speaker 3 (01:03):
Yeah, thanks for having us.
Speaker 1 (01:05):
No problem, we're doing a short episode because we
do have a game at the new megafield, the compound.
All the information will be putin the description of this mini
episode, and I also want you toknow that we're doing a full
Team Echo episode this afternoon, aren't we boys?
(01:25):
Hell yeah, all of us.
Oh yeah, because people need toknow.
I know there's a lot of peoplein Ontario Airsoft, myself
included that play with you guysdirectly.
We train together and I meaneven off the field we hang out
and you guys are good guys and Ithink that the community needs
a refresher of who Echo is.
(01:47):
So before we kind of get intothe premise of this, I want to
say industry changing game.
Give us a quick background ofyour team.
Speaker 2 (02:01):
So you know, obviously for more information,
listen to that, to the podcast,just about the team itself.
But in a nutshell, we've beenaround for a while.
I'll tell you long enough thatmy kids were born years after
starting and now they drive tosee me.
So it's been a while Like I'mexpecting to be a grandfather
(02:24):
soon.
I would say, that's a while forsure Within the time I've been
playing Airsoft, so we bring alot of experience.
We've been in terms of hosting.
Now I've hosted I don't knowyou guys can do the math upwards
of, at some points two to threegames a week for, I'd say, the
(02:46):
first at least 15 years of beinga team.
So hundreds and hundreds ofgames.
We have commanded large scaleevents, multi hundred player
events at PRZ, some of by someof the largest hosts out there,
some of the household brandnames that you know of, and
we've been lucky enough as wellto be able to play south of the
(03:09):
border.
So we've kind of got a goodoversight of what Airsoft is and
what really high end games looklike both in Canada and in the
States, and we're enthusiasts.
That's kind of what it comesdown to is.
We are on that quest for more.
We want better than the statusquo and we know that the
(03:31):
community wants better.
But sometimes the communitydoesn't know what they want
until you show it to them andthen they go.
You're right, you know.
That's what I was missing, andwhat we're going to do here is
we're going to bring some ofthose experiences of what we've
had.
We're going to take some of themost memorable moments from
games that we've attended andhosted and we want to bring that
(03:55):
to the public and give themthat opportunity to experience
those moments for themselves.
So you know, I have my what dothey call it my that real in my
head of memories, that you knowthose amazing moments, that when
you go out with the boys andyou're drinking.
I want a game that all of thosememories I get to share with
(04:16):
players and allow them toexperience those moments right
from, you know, getting blown upby your friends to blowing up
an enemy and everything inbetween.
And we'll get more into that.
But that's kind of what we as ateam are.
Our beginnings there, you knowages ago.
That's what we as a team aregoing to bring to the table when
(04:37):
it comes time to host this game.
Speaker 1 (04:39):
That sounds like something I'm definitely
interested in and being, I guess, close with you guys and like
we're developing our own gametoo as a separate entity, and
it's kind of I think you and Iare on the same page.
We're kind of spinning thingsto, like I always say, more of a
(05:00):
realism end as much as airsoftwill allow us.
Is that fair to say?
Speaker 2 (05:06):
That's.
That's absolutely fair to say.
In fact, you know whatairsofters you have my
commitment you will never do afrango do a mission, carry a jug
of water, help somebody changetheir fucking tire, go over
there and do a news report onthe front line, on the firing
line or some other bullshit.
(05:26):
You will never do somecockamamie, dog shit, frango
that is twice removed from thebattlefield.
There is nothing in rages memore than when you are tasked to
take over an arbitrary point onthe map for some reason.
That gains no tacticaladvantage.
(05:47):
You know we'll use the one,everybody knows the kitchen.
And all of a sudden it's hey,by the way, grab your two squads
and at one o'clock go meet Samin the boatyard I don't know, I
guess Sam's a boat salesman andthen get fucking ambushed by
dudes with thermals.
Hell, no, you're welcomeairsofters.
It'll never, ever.
(06:07):
That's my commitment.
You will never do it.
Speaker 1 (06:13):
That's very, very vivid example, definitely been
involved in some events whereit's like that and it's I
understand where you're comingfrom.
So you have a certain I want tosay not even a some of them
don't even have a storyline soyou're going in it's you've got
to go, do this for a certainamount of time, so that way they
(06:37):
don't do this.
And then basically what you'resaying is you're pulled at a
moment's notice, or maybe apreset time, depending on the
game, game host, whatever, whereyou're pulled into an area of
the field that may not be in usein the regular game.
(06:58):
So basically it's taking yourthought pattern, which maybe by
now you've been holding aposition.
You've, guys, got a, you know,an LA ambush, a fire line set up
, but then now you're going todo some cockamie me made up
mission that has nothing to dowith the game.
That now pulls your mindset ina totally different direction,
(07:21):
for no reason whatsoever otherthan to try to get a gun fight
going at a different part of thefield, disrupts the flow.
Disrupts the flow mentally,physically, and we all know, you
know, in Ontario airsoft,especially as it goes like later
in the game, trying to find twofull fucking squads on the
(07:42):
field at three o'clock in themorning to go do a frag or a
side mission, it's.
It can make or break a game.
I understand that, but it alsojust totally changes the mood of
the players.
I guess you're trying to sayWell, so imagine this.
Speaker 2 (08:00):
Let me paint the picture for you.
You, you've been running hardall day, you're, you're fucking
tired, you know, the Gooch isjust dripping with sweat, it's,
it's been a long one.
You've passed the barbecuesgoing on and they're simmering
some nice food.
You're starving because you'rean airsoft player, right, and
you've been walking past theseMandarin style buffets the whole
(08:22):
way in and out of your CP.
You're already agitated withyour team.
Half of them are accusing theother team of cheating because
they shot their broken guns atthem twice and didn't hit, fuck
all.
And you're like, you know what?
I'm not going to let it get tome, though.
I'm, I'm, I'm diehard, I'm aserious airsoft, airsoft, air.
Let's bomb up our mags, boys,and let's get back out there.
And you get, you get told youknow what.
(08:42):
You know what echo, what wereally need right now.
I know we're in this battleover this kitchen because if we
don't secure it, we can't cookfood of our own.
We're going to fucking starve,right?
So this is the only kitchen,the last one, the Mohican of
kitchens, right, I know, it'simportant, boys, but here's what
I need from you guys right nowGo see Sam the boat salesman and
what you don't know I may knowbut I'm not going to tell you is
(09:06):
there's a team that for somereason is equipped better than
JTF to, and they're lying inwait for you because they have
some intel randomly given tothem that you're going to be
trying to buy a speedboat thatyou don't know you want to.
You don't even know you wantthe boat, yet Sam's a classy guy
, and then you get wasted andthen you're left with a sense of
you know I didn't feel thepenetration, but I know my ass
(09:30):
hurts.
And then your reward is afterthat 20 minute walk back of
dragging ass, you know you'regoing past the food lines again.
You smell the roast chickensgoing and the barbecues flying
and squad leaders and platoonleaders going.
Where the fuck is?
Everybody went home.
What's going on?
Right?
This is my commitment.
(09:50):
Why they go home is because youknow.
It's as simple as this.
What's the current score in theRusso Ukrainian war?
Nobody fucking knows.
There's no points.
There's no goals scored.
They don't count goals.
You want to flip flags?
Raise your flag.
Do you know what it means?
It means you have a flag up.
That that's good.
It's good for morale.
I like seeing flags, but it's aflag.
(10:13):
It doesn't mysteriously Leechthis, you know, unless it's the
American flag.
And then we get the soaringeagles and you hear.
But I'm just saying we don'tget some sort of buff.
It's not a video game.
We don't get it exhilaratedsomehow because a flag's flying.
A flag flying means a flag isflying.
(10:33):
Here's what winning means in theevents that I enjoy the most
and don't get me wrong, thepoint system, the flag flipping.
They are fun.
They're just not what this is.
What this is is if you flip aflag, congratulations.
You put claim to the area.
It looks good, feels good,might make for some nice
pictures.
(10:54):
What winning is is taking a truetactical advantage.
If I take an area on the map, IDon't get points for it.
It means I have an area on themap taken and and this is, this
is war, this is this is asimulation of warfare.
I mean it kind of lends itselfnicely to the name of mill sim.
(11:14):
I have a hard time Simminganything when I go.
How many points is that flagworth over there?
You know, bob, if we, if we, ifwe manage to buy this fucking
speedboat and we flip that flag,we get ten points.
Ten points is what?
How many, how many points winsa war?
Yep, pretty good for immersion,it's.
It's a nightmare, it's my, it's, in fact, my worst nightmare.
(11:37):
I want to eliminate that.
What I want to do is I wantpeople to elevate their, their
thinking, and I will.
I will Honestly tip my hat andgive full credit to, to some of
the oldest hosts around,probably the only one really
worth mentioning now, justbecause they're still active
Brian Mackamoyle.
He, he, I Gotta say in theearly days, him and I butted
(11:59):
heads like no tomorrow, but hetaught me a lot at the Deadfall
series when he used to give hisspeech at the end, which he
hasn't done, but, but I used tolove it.
I mean, he still gives a speech,but he used to give the same
speech, more or less, which wasif you're here, congratulations,
you have won being standing it.
You know, winning is what itgives you.
(12:21):
Winning is the joy, it's thepride, it's the exhilaration,
it's the sense of completion,it's running the marathon,
understanding you're gonna burnthrough band-aids and those
nipples are gonna be sore, butyou made it.
That's, that's winning.
I want to give people thosesort of things I.
I would hate it truly would bemy biggest failure if people
(12:42):
come back and go fuck.
We lost by ten points.
Speaker 1 (12:45):
Yeah.
So what you're saying is you'renot gonna.
I know some games like.
I've played a lot of events as,as you guys have nowhere near
what you have, but you're notgonna hand.
First of all, is there gonna betwo faction commanders, or
how's that gonna work?
Speaker 2 (13:01):
So with with the command of this game.
Actually, this is a good way togo about it too.
I like how we're tiptoeing intothis game, so, so try not to
get lost, because I'll make sureyou do.
I'm a scatterbrained that way,but here's how it works is the
event itself, just backing up alittle bit, is based on the
territory.
It's a stan, if you will right,in fact, it's compound a stan.
(13:26):
Okay, love it.
So the first thing you know,even before I I go to
radicalized with this, is Do nottake this the wrong way.
This game, I want to make surethat we honor every culture and
every people.
Right, I hate each and everyone of you, all the same.
Okay, I bear no respect to anyof you.
(13:48):
So just just keep that in yourminds that I'm not looking down
on anyone, people.
I look down on all people, butthis is a stan.
So imagine a region Just foryour say it for yourself, to
paint that picture.
It could be anywhere from, youknow, afghanistan, rate to
Chechnya.
That kind of Culture, thosekind of people, those kind of
(14:10):
climate, those kind of habitsand and tradition.
Okay, so that that paints a bitof a scene for you in those
areas, some of those areas.
A lot of a lot of the timethey're kind of tribal people.
You'll have village elders insome of those communities and
peoples, which is going to betrue to this game.
(14:31):
So one faction is going to bedriven by.
There is a more or less centralcommand that is more or less
honored as the official leader.
However, it's tribal, they'renomadic.
They also have a bit of a powerstruggle.
They're also not stabilized.
It's to represent a very muchthird world country.
(14:51):
You know they mostly agree, butat the same time, if their
local tribal elder tells them,do X, you bet they're doing it
and they are going to be pittedin this game against a NATO
force, predominantly UnitedStates.
However, it's open to any, anygroup that wants to show up to
(15:12):
this event and make the rosterin any NATO standard Uniform and
unit will be able to play aslong as your entire unit is in
that same NATO standard dressand weaponry.
So that that's.
Those are the factions nowwithin those.
So yes and no is the finalanswer, without running too many
times around the tree.
(15:32):
Nato will have its actualstandard join ops command.
There'll be one, one commanderin chief.
The other side will have onecommander but then several
layers of sub leaders within it.
Speaker 1 (15:48):
So almost like a tribal platoon leaders, but not
platoons, different little areas, different little villages.
I know the compounds prettyspread apart, especially
Concerning the new recentadditions.
So there's like little tinyOffshoots of towns and stuff
like that.
So it's gonna be more of a.
Is it gonna be more of acondensed to one portion of the
(16:10):
field, or is it gonna be a gamethat's Got vehicles and you
utilizing roads and you're,you're, you've got you know
fucking Shepherds in the fieldhurting people and stuff like
that.
Is that gonna be the type ofgamers are gonna be centralized?
Here is your set mission set.
This is what's happening atthis time.
Be ready, follow this.
(16:31):
Or is it gonna be?
You don't know what the fuckyou're doing.
Get out there and figure it outBefore it's too late.
Is it that type or all?
Speaker 2 (16:41):
of it.
So so, yeah, let's let's diveinto this here.
So we Painted the scenery ofthe region, of the people, of
the culture.
Now here, here's the story,here's the background and when.
If you want more information,it's all gonna be a lot more
available when we do the, thefinal post.
Right?
This is the teaser, so I'm justgonna give you the gist of it,
(17:03):
so don't wet your panties on it.
You are a NATO force, providingyou're on the NATO side and you
are going to a region.
The reason why you're going tothis region is I'm gonna
piggyback off of what's actuallyhappening in the world.
So there's a lot of key players.
We're seeing the, thereunification of almost the
Warsaw and NATO Pax Warring thisis really what we're seeing
(17:27):
right now in Ukraine and withYemen being involved, in Israel
and Syria and all thesedifferent things right now.
Right?
So NATO understands, just likehow you know, in the real world,
right now, nato is not outrightattacking Russia, just as an
example, but what we are seeingis NATO is deciding to pick on
some of the smaller players andhe rode the same force, but
(17:49):
they're choosing a safer angleand that's what we're seeing.
So NATO has decided to invadeCompound to stand and achieve a
foothold there.
Now, how do you achieve afoothold?
Once again, back to mycommitment.
You're never going to achievethe foothold by running jugs of
water or, you know, eating hotdogs or any other bullshit.
(18:10):
You are going to stem the flowof traffic of weaponry, of Drugs
, of any, any other source.
It could be many things andthere will be many different
things that these Locals, thesewarlords, these local tribal
leaders used to fund theirprivate militias.
The NATO forces need to stemthat flow.
They need to stabilize theregion.
(18:31):
Well, how do you stabilize theregion?
You have to win hearts andminds.
You have to offer value.
You have to show the localsthat we're here for the bad guys
, not the good guys, and and wewant to meet.
You know, we want to play bothsides of the coin.
They want to take them over.
Of course, I mean, we can'thide it.
We saw this in Iraq andAfghanistan and all this other
(18:52):
stuff.
Like yeah, we're good guys,we'll build your dams, will
clear your bridges and all thisother stuff, but ultimately,
like we're gonna knock yourdoors down, raid your house and
take your weapons.
That's kind of the hiddenmotives.
These are the real world thingswe're bringing into this.
Now, if you're on the other side, how do you feel?
You know, some foreigner justcame and set up a roadblock.
(19:12):
He's stopping your vehicles.
So yeah, to answer, yourvehicles, yes, there's vehicles.
There's vehicles on both sidesand and I'll touch later on why
you need those vehicles.
But you know you don't feel sohot that there's some, some
goofball from New York nowstanding in your village who's
telling you you have to go adifferent way, who's telling you
(19:33):
open your jacket and show themthat you have no weaponry.
That's, you know, doing thesethings.
So the the mood, the startingmood, is a bit of resentment.
Some of the locals may havesome high hopes that this is
gonna bring stability.
Speaker 1 (19:45):
Others will outright hate your guts just for being
there that's pretty pretty onpar for the type of game that
I'm interested in.
I'm just gonna put it out there.
For sure sounds like it's got alot of Intricacies, but it's
super simple at the same time,which I like.
I just want to back up a littlebit and get a little bit more
(20:07):
information out.
So you said earlier so NATOSpecific kits and weaponry for
the one side, correct?
Yes okay, that informationObviously will be put out in
advance of what is required tosign up for that side and our
variations within reason of aNATO firearm M4, carbine, m249,
(20:34):
stuff like that and Othercountry weapons allowed, or is
it super, super strict?
Sorry to put you on the spot.
Speaker 2 (20:41):
Because they they overlap, so variations Are
allowed and and that that fitswithin being strict as well.
So, for reference, I guess wecan use this as a reference
material.
Milsim West is a really goodjob of it and we'll do similar.
So for anybody that's curiousand they want a sort of sneak
peek of what to expect, you canlook to their stuff.
(21:01):
It's not a rip off of it, butit's gonna be similar.
We'll be throwing up pictures.
I'll be.
I'll be when this game actuallyis being formed together in
squad leaders and and platoonleaders are gonna be picked.
We'll be speaking to you assquad leads and platoon leads
via video chat.
So the individual troops theywill get that information Handed
down to them, but we'll be verycrystal clear on this.
(21:24):
Everybody, however, we'll haveaccess to the photos of, you
know, examples of kit.
They can have, types of uniformthey can have and things like
this, but we'll use an exampleif you say okay, well, my group
represents my squad, representsCanadian soldiers.
Okay, you're all in CAD pad andbuddy in the back has a G36.
(21:45):
Sorry, it's not gonna happen.
Yeah, not for you, not gonnahappen.
And likewise, within NATO, inthis game there will be Skills.
You know when I, when I sayNATO, it's not like the army
shows up in wins wars.
There are different servicesinvolved.
There are special forces, thereare regular soldiers, there's
(22:07):
artillery men and so on.
Right, the special forces unit,for example, and there will be
one For all of the, all of youthat want to be fully geared out
.
You know, to become specialforces in this game, you must
bear that kit.
I'm so sick and tired ofsomebody signing up in a sniper
role and they have an m4 and a$49 ghillie.
It's not gonna happen here.
(22:29):
My commitment to you if you'respec ops and you don't have
night vision, you're not veryspecial, are you?
And?
And likewise, if you sign upand you're like, okay, well, my
group here.
We're part of the NATO standardtroops.
I'm sorry, nato standard troopsaren't rocking $40,000 thermals
.
It ain't in the budget, right,slava, the budget, but it ain't
there.
Speaker 1 (22:49):
What about the other side?
So we kind of touched on thethe NATO end and we'll obviously
simplify and get some moreinformation out Now for the
viewers out there.
Myself I am directly attachedto this project as well, so I am
working alongside with echo togive you guys the experience
(23:12):
that we're trying to get outinto the Ontario airsoft world
this year with games likeoperation gun runner and the
game we're discussing now and Acouple other game, hoser
elevating as well, which is goodto see.
But yeah, so on the other sideof the coin.
So say, I wanted to be, I guess, would it be insurgency or you
(23:35):
could call them an insurgent.
Speaker 2 (23:36):
I call them locals or or native population, right,
whatever you want to call themright, local citizen, but they
they're, they're not really aninsurgent because it's their
land.
Yeah, makes sense, but in termsof their types of loadouts,
think of a country that endswith Stan and and, and you know,
google it if you, if you have aproblem right, could you have a
(23:59):
G3?
Absolutely any type ofKalashnikov platform?
Could you have a M16 a1,possibly a couple, but, once
again, these, these will belimited though if you, if you
have a one-off gun, you know, ifyou can't, I don't want guys
showing up going.
Well, I have two, five M249sand I Don't know three MP5s in
(24:23):
my team.
I don't mind if we have one ortwo MP5s throughout the whole,
the whole side.
Yeah, you want one M249.
It could be, you know, made thecase that it's a captured
weapon, not made of stone, but Iwant, by and large, it to
represent an, a accurate,general overview.
Like are there M4s in theMiddle East?
(24:45):
Of course there are, oh, yeah,but by and large, in terms of
sample size there, they're notthere.
No, you know, they're one, theyrepresent one in a thousand,
right, and I want to keep thatkind of visual ratio that
includes your dress.
Boys and girls, you show up tothis game wearing multi cam.
You better or not be a local?
Yeah, if you are, you're,you're probably gonna be lynched
(25:09):
by your own populace for beinga traitor.
I want the, the attitude, thebehaviors to represent, the
force you're representing.
So you know, going deeper inthis and honestly, I I think
this game offers so muchimmersion To the players I could
go off on it for three hoursand still not hit all the points
(25:29):
that are gonna that people aregonna get buried in.
Imagine you are a local.
Your, your uniform could be asuit, jacket and slacks.
It could be Middle Eastern, youknow, sort of a straight cut
collar pajama type outfit,Something more traditional.
It could be more eastern blockright, because we're everywhere,
(25:52):
from that sort of Chechnya tothe stands right anywhere in
that region.
We want you looking the part.
If you don't look the part,this is not the game for you.
If what?
What I'm looking for is I wantguys to show up wearing their
fake beards.
I want guys to enjoy the factthat we're gonna have incense
burning.
(26:12):
We're gonna have food burned,like cooking for the that you'd
find in those local regions.
There'll be music playing.
It is going to be an immersiveexperience.
This game is not for you.
If you're looking for 300 on300, let's, let's dump mags.
This is not for you.
If you want something whereyou're gonna feel a sense of
(26:33):
accomplishment, where winning isa sensation, not a, not a score
, this is for you, and thatincludes being part of your role
and with that is Understandingthat you come from.
As I said earlier, this isrepresenting a third world
country, I'm sorry to say.
You don't have a seven thousanddollar optic.
In fact, your team is gonna belimited to one in three with any
(26:55):
optic at all.
Okay.
So, ladies and gentlemen, if youhave something really obscure,
this is your chance to use it.
I would love to see guys outthere running their moans for
this.
I'd love to see guys out there,maybe just with a pistol right,
as long as it's not a speed QBpiece of junk.
I'd love to see guys you know,get an old Sten gun, a sterling
(27:18):
like, bring out your realoddball, weird stuff.
Do you'd find sort of blackmarket in those areas?
This is your chance to justhave a ball with it, to really
just offload on on the othergroup, which.
Those are your people in thecommunity that want Organization
.
They want to sit in a talk,they want to see drone footage
of what's happening.
You know, that's why this gameis gonna offer something to
(27:38):
anybody that wants to be part ofit.
You want to just go ham, youwant to joke around and and Bug
some, some Marines for an hour,frustrate them before pulling
the cord on your bomb vest.
This is your game what?
Speaker 1 (27:50):
so let's, let's go back a little bit, because I
know you touched on it briefly.
For Special forces, how is itgonna go for the locals and
night vision?
Speaker 2 (28:01):
So the locals will possess their own Version of
night vision, which is more of atraining type thing, where
they're just gonna squint theireyes real good, and look for
Shapes and and unload on.
You know, I want this game, Iwant Any time you're unsure of
anything at this game, I wantyou all to think what would they
(28:22):
really do?
What would it really be like?
In a General sense, becausenobody, nowhere know how, can
hit it every time, right, yeah,but we can go.
Generally speaking, you know,once again, do they have night
vision, afghanistan or Iraq orany?
Of course they do.
Speaker 1 (28:36):
By and large, they don't depends on If it was
before or after Biden lefteverything for them.
Speaker 2 (28:43):
Well, I mean, as far as I know, canada is still
trying to buy that.
We need to replace ours withsome good stuff.
So if we can get the oldterrorists garbage, that'd be an
upgrade for us.
But, but no, I really wantpeople to think about that.
You know, and actually we weretalking about it just before.
I use a really good example forrule sets, and once again
you're not getting this allright now.
This is just the teaser.
(29:04):
Here's a basic thing that I wasasked.
Last night.
Kyle said to me.
You know what was your questionexactly, kyle?
I think it was.
Speaker 3 (29:12):
I was at Deadfall and the guy rolled over on on his
R2B and it went off at my feet,but I got hit by no
fragmentation and with my earprotection on, it really wasn't
anything crazy.
If I was facing the other way Icould have mistaken that for a
flash and I was just kind ofasking whether or not your
(29:33):
grenade rules were gonna beradius or Like fragmentation or
BB hit, bb kill, and so that Ithink that's where I was going
with it.
Speaker 2 (29:42):
Yeah, so so that's just, I wanted him to give you
guys the exact question as itwas asked to me.
So here's the way I think of it.
You know, I bring myself backand I say what would happen if
this was real?
And in my mind I'm thinkingokay, well, you saw flash.
You didn't hear it because youhad your pelter sign.
You didn't feel anything.
To me that represents like thelast thought running through
your brain as your body isliquefied.
(30:03):
Right, that frag grenade wentoff at your feet.
It's.
It's like yes, you didn't feelanything because you didn't have
the chance to feel anything.
You got turned into puddingright, at the very least, your
combat ineffective.
Any way you want to put itright.
Speaker 1 (30:18):
So wounded, you definitely wounded you're
wounded, you got to do.
That actually brings up a.
That was a great question, kyle.
I was gonna ask the same one.
That actually brings up anotherpoint.
Okay, so Kyle's wounded say hedid call it whatever.
That was a great fucking game.
Deadfall, by the way, thank youboys I call it the 12 strong
(30:39):
game and we're gonna touch on iton the end of the echo episode,
because Deadfall this year Jotfwas primarily life fighters and
echo and it was fucking magical.
But we'll touch on that adifferent episode.
I want to go to the medical endof the rule set for this game.
(31:00):
Now, for the people listeningto, there will be a typed up
rule set.
It's all coming down the line.
We're putting stuff together.
There's a lot going on,obviously with the development
of the field.
These new games, the new gamehost the new abilities that we
have now to host, now that PRZ'sgone and we've had to adjust
our game set and go to a bigger,more open field.
(31:23):
Now how is it gonna be For thepeople that are grenade or shot?
What happens next?
Nato side.
Speaker 2 (31:32):
Okay.
So this is a good question andI mean, I think it's obvious.
Two guys put their hand on yourshoulder and you run through
the woods with them until youfind safety now I'm just kidding
you Do not get blown up with ahand grenade and two boys put
their arms around you and yourun with them.
Think about it.
What happens if you get shot?
(31:52):
Right now in the sport we'replaying a hit as a kill Right.
Unless the rules specify inthere, you know we could go, we
could go really crazy with itand be like oh, if you're shot
in the leg, you you know it'sthis or that, but we're, we're
going to go, we're gonnasimulate up to the point where
it stops making sense.
So you're shot, what would?
What would really happen?
(32:13):
I'll break it down for you.
Your team can choose to leaveyour body out in the field.
So it's a real-worldpossibility.
Or they retrieve you and that'sthat's it.
Speaker 1 (32:25):
Is there a bleed out or no?
There is no bleed out.
Perfect, thank you.
Speaker 2 (32:29):
And the reason why I'm not worried about there not
being a bleed out is you willnot be without your squad.
It is simply put.
So Fear not about getting shotout in the woods, because if
you're shot out in the woodsYou're just as light a bit
liable to be shot as a deserterby your own team anyways,
because you better be with yoursquad.
You get hit, you go down,you're calling for medic, you're
(32:50):
wounded.
Right, there's a few ways itcan work.
You could be dragged, you couldbe thrown on a stretcher, you
could be thrown in a vehicle.
You'd be carried by five guys.
Those are the only ways you aredead weight.
So you know those games whereyou run up to a guy and you you,
(33:11):
if Revive him from the dead andyou ask his spirit Can I pull
on your gear?
I, you have my commitment.
Don't sign up for the game ifwe can't pull on you.
Don't sign up for the game ifwe can't lift you.
Don't sign in the game if youcan't lay down in your hit.
Don't sign on the game if youcan't, for some reason, play
dead.
The easiest thing to do it's.
(33:32):
It's less work than sleepinglike you're just laying there
right when you're hit, you justlay there.
That's your only job.
To lay there.
Your team will have to approachyou, put a tourniquet on which
simulates stabilizing your wound.
They will then have to give youa bottle of water, which
represents putting in your IV,and then they X-fill you.
(33:53):
Medics can do this.
That's it, it's simple.
Speaker 1 (33:59):
So there's no your rate back and firing after you
get the bottle of water.
Are you combat effective atthat point, or do you need to be
taken back to a capture point,control point, whatever the fuck
you want to call it, and thenyou're back in?
Or are you instantly back inafter you're turn to kitted and
(34:21):
bottled?
Speaker 2 (34:22):
No.
So I want some mechanism in thegame to give consequence.
You know, if I shoot you andit's easy you just put a turn to
get on you and you drink waterand then you're back shooting.
That squad never really paidthe price for losing you.
I want it felt.
I want you to now have to be Xfilled right.
A squad that loses two or threeguys.
(34:42):
They're not sticking around.
This is not that type of game.
These big World War II you know, iwo Jima fight to the last man
.
Things are not really a thingin current NATO doctrine.
It is preservation of life.
When you lose one or two guys.
Yeah, so it's only one or twoguys, but it's also one or two
(35:03):
guys.
That's a serious thing.
Somebody just you know.
Let's think of what you knowreal world.
Somebody just got killed onyour team.
We need to act that way.
This is a serious thing.
They need to be Kazvacked.
Once they get Kazvacked,they're right back in with their
squad.
So if their squad decides theywant to lose one, and have that
(35:27):
person escort it, because, keepin mind, they can't get off the
field themselves.
If they get loaded into amedical truck, let's say, and
trucked back to their operationpoint.
Their squad can still operatewithout one person, but that one
person can't come in the fielduntil their squad comes back and
reforms with them.
Speaker 1 (35:46):
So what happens if, since there's no bleed out, say
that fight like I know for us, Inever leave a fucking man
behind but say that fightdiverts you to you know, a
kilometer away, because you gotbumped, you move back and you're
(36:09):
currently getting pushed.
Say you're not winning thegunfight and they're pushing
your line further back and tostay alive, you keep moving back
, you keep getting wider,whatever you adjust your L,
whatever that person, becausethere's no bleed out, that now
is cut off and is dead in thebush.
What's their options now?
(36:30):
Do they have to wait or canthey say I'm done, I quit for
now.
I don't wanna sit in the bushfor three hours?
How do they get back into thegame?
So how does that work?
Speaker 2 (36:45):
So there's a couple ways.
One, let's think of real world.
They would likely be capturedFor sure.
They'd likely be videotaped andexecuted or extorted.
I like the idea of any of those.
I think you get creative.
Speaker 1 (37:01):
So they can, and this kind of correlates to the
Deadfall series for those who'veplayed it.
You can take prisoners,absolutely, so this game
warrants taking prisoners, oryou have the option of walking
up to that guy and just endingit right there.
Already we doing dead rightthere.
Speaker 2 (37:22):
So kind of like, if you want to, sure, but even a
body has value, true, you wantplaster social media with photos
of the dead, right like.
Ask yourself at every turn atthis game, what would they do in
real life?
What would they really do?
A dead US soldier is stillworth something.
(37:43):
Sure, he might be worth aprisoner swap.
He might be worth NATO's.
Gotta put in some worksomewhere, right.
What can they do for you now?
Because you have something theywant and I want that felt.
For example, let's say a squadloses two or three guys, that
squad can't go back out.
They're combat ineffective.
And now there are other squads.
(38:03):
Their objectives now change to.
We gotta get these bodies back.
I mean, what a terrible drainis that when you're, let's say,
four squads and now you gottadivert two of them to go
retrieving a dead guy.
Speaker 1 (38:14):
Especially if you're a task to hold a specific point
on the field, exactly soEverything has consequences.
Speaker 2 (38:21):
Everything about this game, like you know, I can say,
defer to the rules, defer toasking yourself what would they
really do?
Right, and I think that's justa cool mechanism to put it in
there.
Right, we have to give somemechanism to it because it's a
game, ultimately, right?
So, like with the DRT thing,with somebody's giving up and
saying, okay, okay, I'm done,it's a possibility, right, I
(38:45):
wouldn't wanna remove that.
It's not gonna be in the rules,right, it's not gonna be
something I want players doing.
But of course, there'sexceptions.
I'll give you one.
Let's say, there's some sort ofa strange scenario where
there's a standoff and you'relaying cooking in the sun.
Don't lay there and get sunstroked out.
Like, let's be reasonable.
But if I see people that aredead going, well, I've been here
(39:08):
for half an hour and getting up, this is not the game for you.
If you can't show up to a game,being prepared to lay down, I
don't know what else you're notprepared to do.
Speaker 1 (39:19):
Like, you're probably there just for the barbecue
100% and that's what we'retrying to change in Ontario
Airsoft.
We're trying to elevate, nowthat we have this canvas, we
have the ability to do that withour games, and that's what I
really like to hear.
And I wanna get thisinformation out because game
hosts, they need to take somecues.
And I know Milsim West wasmentioned and obviously in no
(39:45):
way are we copying what they'redoing.
We're honestly honoring them ina way by following to a certain
degree of what they're doing,and it sounds like you're kinda
taking their direction towardsthe rule end of it, which I like
to see 100%.
Speaker 2 (40:05):
It's purely out of respect for the organization and
there's no affiliation right,so they don't need to feel
embarrassed or threatened or,however, whichever way in
between right?
The bottom line is this this isthe game.
That's like you need to look inthat mirror and go am I a
fucking pussy?
And if you're not sign up, man,you guys are gonna have a blast
(40:27):
.
But if you look in that mirrorand you're like you know what
three of my teammates had tocall a no-duff because, fuck, if
I know, I twisted my ankle.
Twisting your ankle is a seriousthing.
You probably had a sore anklefor a few days.
I mean, that would even stopyou from running.
I don't fucking know, but itdoesn't stop a whole game.
You twisted your fucking ankle,but it really hurts.
(40:51):
Was your life in any sort ofperil?
The answer is never gonna beyes, unless there's some really
odd, obscure reason.
Right, somebody was sick, theywere vomiting.
I have no doubt that's aserious thing and of course, as
a game host, of course we'lltake that very, very seriously,
along with the ankle, my pointbeing, the game doesn't have to
(41:12):
stop for it.
The issue is serious.
We will take it serious, butthe game doesn't stop.
I had my tooth shot out.
I'm gonna scream and itprobably fucking hurt man, you
just had your tooth fucking shotout, I have no doubt.
But I don't need to stopshooting a guy half a kilometer
away because you didn't wearmouth gear.
Unfuck your shit.
(41:34):
Man up and let's play fuckingairsoft.
And if anybody I have never todate and you guys feel free to
send me all the hate mail youwant send me videos of some
fucking Yankee yelling at someHaji saying call your hits bro.
Never fucking happened, oh man,never happened.
Speaker 1 (41:54):
That's actually what.
Let's go touch on this.
You actually got a new questionin my head, so it's.
It is serious, especially as afield owner and I'm talking as a
field owner if someone getshurt.
Now the compound we have theability to get you off the field
super fast Stretchers, trailers, side-by-sides, four-wheelers.
(42:18):
Safety is priority number oneand the field will take care of
that situation so the game cango on.
Okay, so you have that abilityat the compound.
But my question to you as agame host Am I going to see red
shirts on the field or a bunchof NPCs like?
(42:41):
Am I going to feel comfortablewith the amount of staff on the
field at your games, and Is thatsomething that kind of ruins
the immersion?
And what are you going to do Tokind of make sure people are
feeling safe hit calling wise,safety wise but to not kind of
(43:02):
take the Authenticity off thefield?
Do you know what I'm trying tosay?
Speaker 2 (43:06):
Yeah, so let's it's really tough, no well, you know
it's.
It's easy.
It's hard to give the Airsoftcommunity the right answer.
Yeah, that's the problem,because the right answer is
gonna leave a lot of people withsome sore asses.
So here's the thing you hit abig game, 500 player game.
300 of them are good, 200 ofthem are bags of shit.
(43:27):
There's a reason why this gameis not 500 players.
I want the cream showing up, Iwant the guys showing up, that
Both sides want those peopleshowing up.
I want you to be happy yourenemy showed up that day.
I Don't want this to be yourtypical game where these guys
show up and they think they'rebad asses because they've played
(43:48):
for a year and a Half andyou're like who the fuck are
these guys?
And they're gonna cheat likemad, have a barbecue and be gone
in two hours, right?
Yep?
This is not the game for you.
So here's, here's how I wouldhandle this.
Game staff will be present.
Game staff will not be presentin red shirts.
There's no red shirts walkingaround on a battlefield.
You won't know who game staffare.
(44:08):
The reason why is because it'smore or less irrelevant to you.
Game staff are there to makesure we can ensure the Safety
and that the game is followedhonorably.
If there's a problem, you knowthey'll deal with it, but I
don't believe that we should bethere waiting to hit check
somebody, like if you got to dothat.
If you have to hit check aplayer, that player probably
(44:31):
shouldn't be welcome at yourevent.
Yeah, right, at the same timeThere'll be a lot of guys
running Cameras.
Right, here's a quick.
If you're really trulyconcerned, show me footage of
anything and I'll removesomebody Instantaneously from
from any of my presence.
At any event I ever go to.
(44:51):
But realistically, I don't wantthis should not be a problem,
because those caliber of playersI think you're gonna weed
themselves out of this game andthe way that I would like the
game to develop and grow, beingsquad leaders will recruit their
squads.
I think you'll find that thoseplayers just won't show up at
(45:11):
all.
Yeah, they're certainly notwelcome if they do show up.
So, if, if that sounds like you, if you're like, yeah, I'm
gonna cheat a little bit, eat alittle bit, fuck, you stay home,
right, I don't like you, right.
Speaker 1 (45:24):
Let's put a, let's put an example out there.
Say it's tough and I know I'mgonna get some flack back on
this.
Say somebody really wants toplay the event, but they don't
have the fucking uniform, theright weapon in the attire To
play for NATO.
(45:45):
But all their friends areplaying on NATO, but they only
have, you know, the normalT-shirt, pants, whatever that
the other side can wear.
What do you say to people likethat?
Speaker 2 (45:58):
Yeah, I mean, I just say fuck you.
See you next year.
Speaker 3 (46:01):
Well, I mean you also got to consider Hopefully some
of your friends might havesomething you can beg, borrow
and, you know, play with it.
It's a community right, sohopefully you can find a friend
that has something or you knowit doesn't.
It doesn't necessarily have tobe the best quality to still be
the right color pattern.
Speaker 1 (46:19):
Yeah, especially if it comes to being yeah, exactly.
Speaker 3 (46:21):
If it comes to being one game.
Pick up the cheapest repro youcan get, play with it.
Speaker 1 (46:26):
Yeah, just one thing.
Speaker 3 (46:27):
I'll your friends.
Speaker 1 (46:28):
I will never.
I I you can quote me on thisright here I'll never, ever wear
multi cam.
I'm sorry, I just won't do itand it's not a shot at anybody,
it's just I won't play that gameif it requires me wearing multi
cam.
So that's where I like how youdidn't do the tan versus Civvy,
(46:52):
it's more NATO versus Civvy.
There's one other host thatkind of did that which was for a
green mile, which kind ofworked out because you only have
one team shoot in the fuckingcars.
Yeah right, so it's supersimple.
I think what you're doing isyou're forcing people to play
(47:13):
the character, which I reallyenjoy and it kind of Really gets
me excited for an event.
Now, unfortunately, I won't beactually fucked out.
I can't, I'm not even gonnagive anything out.
Speaker 2 (47:25):
Think of what we're solving here, right?
Like those, those games, thebig games, for example.
You know, we all know the biggame I'm talking about, right, I
won't shit talk anybody justyet.
You take your vest off and youwe're on the green team and for
some reason you have a tant-shirt, and now it's hot, so
you're playing with a tant-shirt.
Fuck you, you get, you getcaught out there.
(47:46):
You're a NATO soldier.
Anybody, anybody with militaryfriends, ask what happens if
you're in a combat zone fightingout of uniform.
I Think you then fall under thedefinition of a non uniform
combat.
You're gonna end up in twoplaces, right?
Neither of them are very goodfor you, so Not permissible.
(48:07):
That that's basically it, right.
If you don't have the gear andyou want to play, that's okay, I
can accommodate you.
It's called the other team, yep, right, it doesn't cost much,
in fact.
Hey, we're at action air.
There's a was, a goodwill valuevillage, whatever the fuck it
is literally right there.
Go, buy yourself an old suit,jacket, some slacks and pretend
you're from the caucus, fuckingmountains.
(48:29):
I don't care it costs you what50 cents to do it.
Yeah right it.
You know like it's a strangething to have to talk to people
about in this day and age, butwe're trying to simulate
something.
If you've never been to amilsim and sadly Most of you've
gone to a lot, but you've neverbeen to one you might actually
(48:51):
show up to a milsim this time.
Yep, my commitment I made to youguys earlier about the bullshit
factor, it's gonna resonatethrough all of it.
It's gonna resonate through theobjectives.
It's gonna resonate through Ipromise you you'll never shoot
at somebody and go.
He's wearing our fucking camel.
I don't understand It'll.
It'll come down to that.
It'll come down to where did mymoney go?
(49:13):
You ever paid more to playairsoft and you do at a nice
resort and got fuck all otherthan the opportunity to Bring a
bag of BBs and shoot at somebody.
You will get your money's worth.
Okay, it's not hard to do.
In fact, I'm happy to show howsimple and fun it can be for
everybody perfect.
Speaker 1 (49:33):
We I guess we don't have cost out right now of Of
ticket price, but that's beingworked out.
That'll all be announced realsoon on social media platforms.
Speaker 2 (49:44):
Yeah.
So here's the reality.
It's a high-end game.
It's gonna come with a high-endprice tag.
I'm not here to throw you overthe counter and pull your wallet
out your back pocket, but itcertainly isn't free.
It's going to be in line withother major games.
For a few reasons, the fielddeserves its cut.
Props are not cheap, but guesswhat?
I'm actually gonna buy themthis time.
(50:04):
Your money, that's right.
We'll go to your experience.
It's not lining my pockets.
My team doesn't get New nightvision or thermals or something
like that because you played atthis event.
What happens is you get abetter experience and that money
is not spent on Fireworks.
We're gonna shoot up in the airbecause, I mean, they're nice to
(50:25):
see, but we're not simulatingthe 4th of July Shooter here,
correct?
We're simulating a war zone.
Okay, so I'm sorry If youwanted to show up and shoot
Roman candles up in the air.
I don't know what you'recelebrating.
Hey, you could be celebratingyour birthday on the front line,
but that's what it's gonnarepresent.
There is no sprinklers, nosparklers, no fucking what's
that other thing?
(50:45):
A little worm thing that wentthere.
No burning school houses orother bullshit.
There is fucking hand grenades,there is landmines, there is
IEDs, there is, there areexplosives.
If you want to count points andsay I got 10 points for waving
a flag, good for fucking you, itcounted for nothing in my game
yeah, give yourself all thepoints you want.
Speaker 1 (51:05):
Okay, so quick recap there is pretty specific,
uniform rules for both sides.
Be aware of that.
If you like what you're hearing, start thinking about that with
your buddies.
Sign up.
The information on single orsquad sign up that will come out
(51:26):
with the social media packagerelease as well.
This game, I think, is gonna beregular sign up, but the second
game, or the spin off game,it's gonna be more of a
recruitment style sign up afterwe get the first kind of game
out there.
So this one will probably stickto either squad or single sign
(51:47):
up and then the 2.0 of this gameor this game series
continuation.
That'll be more along the linesof down through the ranks.
Speaker 2 (51:58):
Right, exactly exactly this game.
It's not as big as the nextones are gonna be.
Right, this game is.
It's a larger game.
It ain't that large, yep.
So spots are gonna fill.
Spots are gonna fill fast.
I want the hardest of the hard.
I don't leave your pussies athome.
There you go.
Right, if you wanna show up, Ibrought my new guy, fuck him.
Leave him at home, bring whocan shoot, bring your real boys
(52:22):
and girls out to this event,okay, and then later down the
road, if you love it, come tothe next one.
If you don't like it, fuck you.
You're gonna like it.
Yeah, right, there's no reasonnot to.
It's a very simple premise.
I know this.
Probably I'm sort of realizingthis sounds like a lot.
Here's how we're gonnaaccomplish it.
Maybe this can ease some mindstoo.
We're gonna accomplish this bygiving each side their
(52:46):
individual rule set individuallythe broad spectrum, blanket
rule set that's gonna beavailable for everybody to see.
But we're gonna hone in andfocus individually on small
groups and give them theirindividual objectives, goals and
rules, so that it's not lost.
We're not speaking to 150people at a time and they're all
(53:09):
.
Half of them got it.
Some of them never read it.
Three of them didn'tacknowledge it and one of them
doesn't even know what the fuckthey're there for.
Everybody's gonna be crystalclear.
This is my commitment to youEverybody on that field.
You'll know what's up, or?
Please don't show up.
Speaker 1 (53:25):
What about length?
Speaker 2 (53:29):
Length.
We haven't finalized the actuallength.
We never actually talked aboutthe up to point, but I like
open-ended games.
When it ends it ends, yeah, so Idon't know how to word it, and
I think that's where the onlything that's holding me back on
it is I don't wanna tellsomebody.
It's 24 hours and this is notNovember 11th.
(53:52):
We haven't called the otherside and said, on the 11th
fucking hour, on the 11th day,the war ends when it ends.
It ends when the objectives aremet.
Now, that being said, there'smechanisms in place to make sure
that this game ends within a 24hour span.
It's within that span.
(54:13):
If you show up there andanybody says to me well, I only
went 20 hours, I don't know whatto tell you.
Too fucking bad, stop doing so.
Well, it ends when it ends,because what we've had at
previous events is the game isover, the game is long fucking
over, and then it's like okay,well, let's just skirmish in the
(54:35):
village.
Then I'm sorry, that is adifferent fucking game.
I showed up, we met ourobjectives.
That story is compromised.
It's over.
A game is an event and, bydefinition, an event has a
beginning, a middle and an end.
It has ended.
The new event of randomly shootat people for an arbitrary
reason in a village, that'ssomething else, and if you wanna
(54:58):
do that, that's cool too.
That's just not at this game.
Speaker 1 (55:02):
That's awesome.
Okay, ladies and gentlemen, youare hearing it first on the
Airsoft experience.
I hope that answers a littlebit of the more basic questions
that Airsofters have aboutevents.
You can start to see somesocial media stuff coming on
this event and some other eventsthat the coalition and I are
(55:24):
hosting together, and what wecan do is we're going to do
Facebook live slash zoom wherewe can get more in-depth
information to more of theleaders of this game and that
can start trickling down.
So keep your eyes on socialmedia and I really want you guys
(55:49):
to listen to the.
Actually, the episode will beaired before this one.
So we're gonna be recording aepisode on the Echo team so you
can get a history on how longthey've been around and what
their goals are and stuff likethat.
So listen to that prior to thisone.
(56:09):
That'll be out relatively soonand then this one will be aired
right after.
If you have any questions, feelfree to reach out to me.
I guess any of the othercontact information we'll put in
the description, because we'rekind of working on that end of
it right now, but really excitedabout this change of PACE in
(56:30):
Ontario Airsoft and I justwanted to quickly sit down, even
though it was an hour long, sitdown with Mike, mac, george and
Kyle here and get someinformation out to you guys so
you can start getting excitedbecause this game is coming out
early.
There's gonna be some otherthings.
We're gonna probably do anotherepisode a little bit closer to
(56:51):
after we get more of the finaldetails kind of hashed out and
that's gonna be more of a pointto point kind of episode.
We just kind of wanna get itout there, get into the
listeners ears, into thecommunity, to start getting
excited about what's coming.
2024 at the compound.
So thank you both for comingout and I look forward to
(57:14):
sitting with you again foranother hour and a half in about
20, 30 minutes.
So we're gonna do this all overagain, but we really need to
get you guys out here.
We need the community to knowwho you are and what we're about
and look for us.
So we will see you guys out onthe field and hopefully we will
see you guys out at this game.
(57:35):
We don't even have a name forit yet, but we wanted to get it
out there.
So thanks a lot, guys.
And, yeah, thanks for comingout, thanks for having us Thanks
again.
Parental advisory.
Now welcome to the Airsoftexperience 6-1.
We have contact left, side 70.
Coming to you Contact leftcontact left.
Speaker 3 (00:13):
We're flanking left side.
Suppress, Push, push, push,we're moving.
We're moving Right side, rightside.
Speaker 1 (00:24):
Alright, and welcome to a special episode of the
Airsoft experience.
I am your host, michael Mascott, also known as Magic in Ontario
Airsoft, and today we've gotnot so new dudes in Ontario
Airsoft but new-ish to the newgame host scene and I wanted to
quickly get a quick episode outabout this new, not new, crew
(00:49):
called Team Echo and we haveMike McGeorge, the leader of the
team, and Kyle Kukai, kukai,kukai Fuck, I knew I was going
to fuck that up.
Sort of Kyle.
All good, welcome to theAirsoft experience.
Thanks for having us.
Speaker 3 (01:03):
Yeah, thanks for having us.
Speaker 1 (01:05):
No problem, we're doing a short episode because we
do have a game at the new megafield, the compound.
All the information will be putin the description of this mini
episode, and I also want you toknow that we're doing a full
Team Echo episode this afternoon, aren't we boys?
(01:25):
Hell yeah, all of us.
Oh yeah, because people need toknow.
I know there's a lot of peoplein Ontario Airsoft, myself
included that play with you guysdirectly.
We train together and I meaneven off the field we hang out
and you guys are good guys and Ithink that the community needs
a refresher of who Echo is.
(01:47):
So before we kind of get intothe premise of this, I want to
say industry changing game.
Give us a quick background ofyour team.
Speaker 2 (02:01):
So you know, obviously for more information,
listen to that, to the podcast,just about the team itself.
But in a nutshell, we've beenaround for a while.
I'll tell you long enough thatmy kids were born years after
starting and now they drive tosee me.
So it's been a while Like I'mexpecting to be a grandfather
(02:24):
soon.
I would say, that's a while forsure Within the time I've been
playing Airsoft, so we bring alot of experience.
We've been in terms of hosting.
Now I've hosted I don't knowyou guys can do the math upwards
of, at some points two to threegames a week for, I'd say, the
(02:46):
first at least 15 years of beinga team.
So hundreds and hundreds ofgames.
We have commanded large scaleevents, multi hundred player
events at PRZ, some of by someof the largest hosts out there,
some of the household brandnames that you know of, and
we've been lucky enough as wellto be able to play south of the
(03:09):
border.
So we've kind of got a goodoversight of what Airsoft is and
what really high end games looklike both in Canada and in the
States, and we're enthusiasts.
That's kind of what it comesdown to is.
We are on that quest for more.
We want better than the statusquo and we know that the
(03:31):
community wants better.
But sometimes the communitydoesn't know what they want
until you show it to them andthen they go.
You're right, you know.
That's what I was missing, andwhat we're going to do here is
we're going to bring some ofthose experiences of what we've
had.
We're going to take some of themost memorable moments from
games that we've attended andhosted and we want to bring that
(03:55):
to the public and give themthat opportunity to experience
those moments for themselves.
So you know, I have my what dothey call it my that real in my
head of memories, that you knowthose amazing moments, that when
you go out with the boys andyou're drinking.
I want a game that all of thosememories I get to share with
(04:16):
players and allow them toexperience those moments right
from, you know, getting blown upby your friends to blowing up
an enemy and everything inbetween.
And we'll get more into that.
But that's kind of what we as ateam are.
Our beginnings there, you knowages ago.
That's what we as a team aregoing to bring to the table when
(04:37):
it comes time to host this game.
Speaker 1 (04:39):
That sounds like something I'm definitely
interested in and being, I guess, close with you guys and like
we're developing our own gametoo as a separate entity, and
it's kind of I think you and Iare on the same page.
We're kind of spinning thingsto, like I always say, more of a
(05:00):
realism end as much as airsoftwill allow us.
Is that fair to say?
Speaker 2 (05:06):
That's.
That's absolutely fair to say.
In fact, you know whatairsofters you have my
commitment you will never do afrango do a mission, carry a jug
of water, help somebody changetheir fucking tire, go over
there and do a news report onthe front line, on the firing
line or some other bullshit.
(05:26):
You will never do somecockamamie, dog shit, frango
that is twice removed from thebattlefield.
There is nothing in rages memore than when you are tasked to
take over an arbitrary point onthe map for some reason.
That gains no tacticaladvantage.
(05:47):
You know we'll use the one,everybody knows the kitchen.
And all of a sudden it's hey,by the way, grab your two squads
and at one o'clock go meet Samin the boatyard I don't know, I
guess Sam's a boat salesman andthen get fucking ambushed by
dudes with thermals.
Hell, no, you're welcomeairsofters.
It'll never, ever.
(06:07):
That's my commitment.
You will never do it.
Speaker 1 (06:13):
That's very, very vivid example, definitely been
involved in some events whereit's like that and it's I
understand where you're comingfrom.
So you have a certain I want tosay not even a some of them
don't even have a storyline soyou're going in it's you've got
to go, do this for a certainamount of time, so that way they
(06:37):
don't do this.
And then basically what you'resaying is you're pulled at a
moment's notice, or maybe apreset time, depending on the
game, game host, whatever, whereyou're pulled into an area of
the field that may not be in usein the regular game.
(06:58):
So basically it's taking yourthought pattern, which maybe by
now you've been holding aposition.
You've, guys, got a, you know,an LA ambush, a fire line set up
, but then now you're going todo some cockamie me made up
mission that has nothing to dowith the game.
That now pulls your mindset ina totally different direction,
(07:21):
for no reason whatsoever otherthan to try to get a gun fight
going at a different part of thefield, disrupts the flow.
Disrupts the flow mentally,physically, and we all know, you
know, in Ontario airsoft,especially as it goes like later
in the game, trying to find twofull fucking squads on the
(07:42):
field at three o'clock in themorning to go do a frag or a
side mission, it's.
It can make or break a game.
I understand that, but it alsojust totally changes the mood of
the players.
I guess you're trying to sayWell, so imagine this.
Speaker 2 (08:00):
Let me paint the picture for you.
You, you've been running hardall day, you're, you're fucking
tired, you know, the Gooch isjust dripping with sweat, it's,
it's been a long one.
You've passed the barbecuesgoing on and they're simmering
some nice food.
You're starving because you'rean airsoft player, right, and
you've been walking past theseMandarin style buffets the whole
(08:22):
way in and out of your CP.
You're already agitated withyour team.
Half of them are accusing theother team of cheating because
they shot their broken guns atthem twice and didn't hit, fuck
all.
And you're like, you know what?
I'm not going to let it get tome, though.
I'm, I'm, I'm diehard, I'm aserious airsoft, airsoft, air.
Let's bomb up our mags, boys,and let's get back out there.
And you get, you get told youknow what.
(08:42):
You know what echo, what wereally need right now.
I know we're in this battleover this kitchen because if we
don't secure it, we can't cookfood of our own.
We're going to fucking starve,right?
So this is the only kitchen,the last one, the Mohican of
kitchens, right, I know, it'simportant, boys, but here's what
I need from you guys right nowGo see Sam the boat salesman and
what you don't know I may knowbut I'm not going to tell you is
(09:06):
there's a team that for somereason is equipped better than
JTF to, and they're lying inwait for you because they have
some intel randomly given tothem that you're going to be
trying to buy a speedboat thatyou don't know you want to.
You don't even know you wantthe boat, yet Sam's a classy guy
, and then you get wasted andthen you're left with a sense of
you know I didn't feel thepenetration, but I know my ass
(09:30):
hurts.
And then your reward is afterthat 20 minute walk back of
dragging ass, you know you'regoing past the food lines again.
You smell the roast chickensgoing and the barbecues flying
and squad leaders and platoonleaders going.
Where the fuck is?
Everybody went home.
What's going on?
Right?
This is my commitment.
(09:50):
Why they go home is because youknow.
It's as simple as this.
What's the current score in theRusso Ukrainian war?
Nobody fucking knows.
There's no points.
There's no goals scored.
They don't count goals.
You want to flip flags?
Raise your flag.
Do you know what it means?
It means you have a flag up.
That that's good.
It's good for morale.
I like seeing flags, but it's aflag.
(10:13):
It doesn't mysteriously Leechthis, you know, unless it's the
American flag.
And then we get the soaringeagles and you hear.
But I'm just saying we don'tget some sort of buff.
It's not a video game.
We don't get it exhilaratedsomehow because a flag's flying.
A flag flying means a flag isflying.
(10:33):
Here's what winning means in theevents that I enjoy the most
and don't get me wrong, thepoint system, the flag flipping.
They are fun.
They're just not what this is.
What this is is if you flip aflag, congratulations.
You put claim to the area.
It looks good, feels good,might make for some nice
pictures.
(10:54):
What winning is is taking a truetactical advantage.
If I take an area on the map, IDon't get points for it.
It means I have an area on themap taken and and this is, this
is war, this is this is asimulation of warfare.
I mean it kind of lends itselfnicely to the name of mill sim.
(11:14):
I have a hard time Simminganything when I go.
How many points is that flagworth over there?
You know, bob, if we, if we, ifwe manage to buy this fucking
speedboat and we flip that flag,we get ten points.
Ten points is what?
How many, how many points winsa war?
Yep, pretty good for immersion,it's.
It's a nightmare, it's my, it's, in fact, my worst nightmare.
(11:37):
I want to eliminate that.
What I want to do is I wantpeople to elevate their, their
thinking, and I will.
I will Honestly tip my hat andgive full credit to, to some of
the oldest hosts around,probably the only one really
worth mentioning now, justbecause they're still active
Brian Mackamoyle.
He, he, I Gotta say in theearly days, him and I butted
(11:59):
heads like no tomorrow, but hetaught me a lot at the Deadfall
series when he used to give hisspeech at the end, which he
hasn't done, but, but I used tolove it.
I mean, he still gives a speech,but he used to give the same
speech, more or less, which wasif you're here, congratulations,
you have won being standing it.
You know, winning is what itgives you.
(12:21):
Winning is the joy, it's thepride, it's the exhilaration,
it's the sense of completion,it's running the marathon,
understanding you're gonna burnthrough band-aids and those
nipples are gonna be sore, butyou made it.
That's, that's winning.
I want to give people thosesort of things I.
I would hate it truly would bemy biggest failure if people
(12:42):
come back and go fuck.
We lost by ten points.
Speaker 1 (12:45):
Yeah.
So what you're saying is you'renot gonna.
I know some games like.
I've played a lot of events as,as you guys have nowhere near
what you have, but you're notgonna hand.
First of all, is there gonna betwo faction commanders, or
how's that gonna work?
Speaker 2 (13:01):
So with with the command of this game.
Actually, this is a good way togo about it too.
I like how we're tiptoeing intothis game, so, so try not to
get lost, because I'll make sureyou do.
I'm a scatterbrained that way,but here's how it works is the
event itself, just backing up alittle bit, is based on the
territory.
It's a stan, if you will right,in fact, it's compound a stan.
(13:26):
Okay, love it.
So the first thing you know,even before I I go to
radicalized with this, is Do nottake this the wrong way.
This game, I want to make surethat we honor every culture and
every people.
Right, I hate each and everyone of you, all the same.
Okay, I bear no respect to anyof you.
(13:48):
So just just keep that in yourminds that I'm not looking down
on anyone, people.
I look down on all people, butthis is a stan.
So imagine a region Just foryour say it for yourself, to
paint that picture.
It could be anywhere from, youknow, afghanistan, rate to
Chechnya.
That kind of Culture, thosekind of people, those kind of
(14:10):
climate, those kind of habitsand and tradition.
Okay, so that that paints a bitof a scene for you in those
areas, some of those areas.
A lot of a lot of the timethey're kind of tribal people.
You'll have village elders insome of those communities and
peoples, which is going to betrue to this game.
(14:31):
So one faction is going to bedriven by.
There is a more or less centralcommand that is more or less
honored as the official leader.
However, it's tribal, they'renomadic.
They also have a bit of a powerstruggle.
They're also not stabilized.
It's to represent a very muchthird world country.
(14:51):
You know they mostly agree, butat the same time, if their
local tribal elder tells them,do X, you bet they're doing it
and they are going to be pittedin this game against a NATO
force, predominantly UnitedStates.
However, it's open to any, anygroup that wants to show up to
(15:12):
this event and make the rosterin any NATO standard Uniform and
unit will be able to play aslong as your entire unit is in
that same NATO standard dressand weaponry.
So that that's.
Those are the factions nowwithin those.
So yes and no is the finalanswer, without running too many
times around the tree.
(15:32):
Nato will have its actualstandard join ops command.
There'll be one, one commanderin chief.
The other side will have onecommander but then several
layers of sub leaders within it.
Speaker 1 (15:48):
So almost like a tribal platoon leaders, but not
platoons, different little areas, different little villages.
I know the compounds prettyspread apart, especially
Concerning the new recentadditions.
So there's like little tinyOffshoots of towns and stuff
like that.
So it's gonna be more of a.
Is it gonna be more of acondensed to one portion of the
(16:10):
field, or is it gonna be a gamethat's Got vehicles and you
utilizing roads and you're,you're, you've got you know
fucking Shepherds in the fieldhurting people and stuff like
that.
Is that gonna be the type ofgamers are gonna be centralized?
Here is your set mission set.
This is what's happening atthis time.
Be ready, follow this.
(16:31):
Or is it gonna be?
You don't know what the fuckyou're doing.
Get out there and figure it outBefore it's too late.
Is it that type or all?
Speaker 2 (16:41):
of it.
So so, yeah, let's let's diveinto this here.
So we Painted the scenery ofthe region, of the people, of
the culture.
Now here, here's the story,here's the background and when.
If you want more information,it's all gonna be a lot more
available when we do the, thefinal post.
Right?
This is the teaser, so I'm justgonna give you the gist of it,
(17:03):
so don't wet your panties on it.
You are a NATO force, providingyou're on the NATO side and you
are going to a region.
The reason why you're going tothis region is I'm gonna
piggyback off of what's actuallyhappening in the world.
So there's a lot of key players.
We're seeing the, thereunification of almost the
Warsaw and NATO Pax Warring thisis really what we're seeing
(17:27):
right now in Ukraine and withYemen being involved, in Israel
and Syria and all thesedifferent things right now.
Right?
So NATO understands, just likehow you know, in the real world,
right now, nato is not outrightattacking Russia, just as an
example, but what we are seeingis NATO is deciding to pick on
some of the smaller players andhe rode the same force, but
(17:49):
they're choosing a safer angleand that's what we're seeing.
So NATO has decided to invadeCompound to stand and achieve a
foothold there.
Now, how do you achieve afoothold?
Once again, back to mycommitment.
You're never going to achievethe foothold by running jugs of
water or, you know, eating hotdogs or any other bullshit.
(18:10):
You are going to stem the flowof traffic of weaponry, of Drugs
, of any, any other source.
It could be many things andthere will be many different
things that these Locals, thesewarlords, these local tribal
leaders used to fund theirprivate militias.
The NATO forces need to stemthat flow.
They need to stabilize theregion.
(18:31):
Well, how do you stabilize theregion?
You have to win hearts andminds.
You have to offer value.
You have to show the localsthat we're here for the bad guys
, not the good guys, and and wewant to meet.
You know, we want to play bothsides of the coin.
They want to take them over.
Of course, I mean, we can'thide it.
We saw this in Iraq andAfghanistan and all this other
(18:52):
stuff.
Like yeah, we're good guys,we'll build your dams, will
clear your bridges and all thisother stuff, but ultimately,
like we're gonna knock yourdoors down, raid your house and
take your weapons.
That's kind of the hiddenmotives.
These are the real world thingswe're bringing into this.
Now, if you're on the other side, how do you feel?
You know, some foreigner justcame and set up a roadblock.
(19:12):
He's stopping your vehicles.
So yeah, to answer, yourvehicles, yes, there's vehicles.
There's vehicles on both sidesand and I'll touch later on why
you need those vehicles.
But you know you don't feel sohot that there's some, some
goofball from New York nowstanding in your village who's
telling you you have to go adifferent way, who's telling you
(19:33):
open your jacket and show themthat you have no weaponry.
That's, you know, doing thesethings.
So the the mood, the startingmood, is a bit of resentment.
Some of the locals may havesome high hopes that this is
gonna bring stability.
Speaker 1 (19:45):
Others will outright hate your guts just for being
there that's pretty pretty onpar for the type of game that
I'm interested in.
I'm just gonna put it out there.
For sure sounds like it's got alot of Intricacies, but it's
super simple at the same time,which I like.
I just want to back up a littlebit and get a little bit more
(20:07):
information out.
So you said earlier so NATOSpecific kits and weaponry for
the one side, correct?
Yes okay, that informationObviously will be put out in
advance of what is required tosign up for that side and our
variations within reason of aNATO firearm M4, carbine, m249,
(20:34):
stuff like that and Othercountry weapons allowed, or is
it super, super strict?
Sorry to put you on the spot.
Speaker 2 (20:41):
Because they they overlap, so variations Are
allowed and and that that fitswithin being strict as well.
So, for reference, I guess wecan use this as a reference
material.
Milsim West is a really goodjob of it and we'll do similar.
So for anybody that's curiousand they want a sort of sneak
peek of what to expect, you canlook to their stuff.
(21:01):
It's not a rip off of it, butit's gonna be similar.
We'll be throwing up pictures.
I'll be.
I'll be when this game actuallyis being formed together in
squad leaders and and platoonleaders are gonna be picked.
We'll be speaking to you assquad leads and platoon leads
via video chat.
So the individual troops theywill get that information Handed
down to them, but we'll be verycrystal clear on this.
(21:24):
Everybody, however, we'll haveaccess to the photos of, you
know, examples of kit.
They can have, types of uniformthey can have and things like
this, but we'll use an exampleif you say okay, well, my group
represents my squad, representsCanadian soldiers.
Okay, you're all in CAD pad andbuddy in the back has a G36.
(21:45):
Sorry, it's not gonna happen.
Yeah, not for you, not gonnahappen.
And likewise, within NATO, inthis game there will be Skills.
You know when I, when I sayNATO, it's not like the army
shows up in wins wars.
There are different servicesinvolved.
There are special forces, thereare regular soldiers, there's
(22:07):
artillery men and so on.
Right, the special forces unit,for example, and there will be
one For all of the, all of youthat want to be fully geared out
.
You know, to become specialforces in this game, you must
bear that kit.
I'm so sick and tired ofsomebody signing up in a sniper
role and they have an m4 and a$49 ghillie.
It's not gonna happen here.
(22:29):
My commitment to you if you'respec ops and you don't have
night vision, you're not veryspecial, are you?
And?
And likewise, if you sign upand you're like, okay, well, my
group here.
We're part of the NATO standardtroops.
I'm sorry, nato standard troopsaren't rocking $40,000 thermals
.
It ain't in the budget, right,slava, the budget, but it ain't
there.
Speaker 1 (22:49):
What about the other side?
So we kind of touched on thethe NATO end and we'll obviously
simplify and get some moreinformation out Now for the
viewers out there.
Myself I am directly attachedto this project as well, so I am
working alongside with echo togive you guys the experience
(23:12):
that we're trying to get outinto the Ontario airsoft world
this year with games likeoperation gun runner and the
game we're discussing now and Acouple other game, hoser
elevating as well, which is goodto see.
But yeah, so on the other sideof the coin.
So say, I wanted to be, I guess, would it be insurgency or you
(23:35):
could call them an insurgent.
Speaker 2 (23:36):
I call them locals or or native population, right,
whatever you want to call themright, local citizen, but they
they're, they're not really aninsurgent because it's their
land.
Yeah, makes sense, but in termsof their types of loadouts,
think of a country that endswith Stan and and, and you know,
google it if you, if you have aproblem right, could you have a
(23:59):
G3?
Absolutely any type ofKalashnikov platform?
Could you have a M16 a1,possibly a couple, but, once
again, these, these will belimited though if you, if you
have a one-off gun, you know, ifyou can't, I don't want guys
showing up going.
Well, I have two, five M249sand I Don't know three MP5s in
(24:23):
my team.
I don't mind if we have one ortwo MP5s throughout the whole,
the whole side.
Yeah, you want one M249.
It could be, you know, made thecase that it's a captured
weapon, not made of stone, but Iwant, by and large, it to
represent an, a accurate,general overview.
Like are there M4s in theMiddle East?
(24:45):
Of course there are, oh, yeah,but by and large, in terms of
sample size there, they're notthere.
No, you know, they're one, theyrepresent one in a thousand,
right, and I want to keep thatkind of visual ratio that
includes your dress.
Boys and girls, you show up tothis game wearing multi cam.
You better or not be a local?
Yeah, if you are, you're,you're probably gonna be lynched
(25:09):
by your own populace for beinga traitor.
I want the, the attitude, thebehaviors to represent, the
force you're representing.
So you know, going deeper inthis and honestly, I I think
this game offers so muchimmersion To the players I could
go off on it for three hoursand still not hit all the points
(25:29):
that are gonna that people aregonna get buried in.
Imagine you are a local.
Your, your uniform could be asuit, jacket and slacks.
It could be Middle Eastern, youknow, sort of a straight cut
collar pajama type outfit,Something more traditional.
It could be more eastern blockright, because we're everywhere,
(25:52):
from that sort of Chechnya tothe stands right anywhere in
that region.
We want you looking the part.
If you don't look the part,this is not the game for you.
If what?
What I'm looking for is I wantguys to show up wearing their
fake beards.
I want guys to enjoy the factthat we're gonna have incense
burning.
(26:12):
We're gonna have food burned,like cooking for the that you'd
find in those local regions.
There'll be music playing.
It is going to be an immersiveexperience.
This game is not for you.
If you're looking for 300 on300, let's, let's dump mags.
This is not for you.
If you want something whereyou're gonna feel a sense of
(26:33):
accomplishment, where winning isa sensation, not a, not a score
, this is for you, and thatincludes being part of your role
and with that is Understandingthat you come from.
As I said earlier, this isrepresenting a third world
country, I'm sorry to say.
You don't have a seven thousanddollar optic.
In fact, your team is gonna belimited to one in three with any
(26:55):
optic at all.
Okay.
So, ladies and gentlemen, if youhave something really obscure,
this is your chance to use it.
I would love to see guys outthere running their moans for
this.
I'd love to see guys out there,maybe just with a pistol right,
as long as it's not a speed QBpiece of junk.
I'd love to see guys you know,get an old Sten gun, a sterling
(27:18):
like, bring out your realoddball, weird stuff.
Do you'd find sort of blackmarket in those areas?
This is your chance to justhave a ball with it, to really
just offload on on the othergroup, which.
Those are your people in thecommunity that want Organization
.
They want to sit in a talk,they want to see drone footage
of what's happening.
You know, that's why this gameis gonna offer something to
(27:38):
anybody that wants to be part ofit.
You want to just go ham, youwant to joke around and and Bug
some, some Marines for an hour,frustrate them before pulling
the cord on your bomb vest.
This is your game what?
Speaker 1 (27:50):
so let's, let's go back a little bit, because I
know you touched on it briefly.
For Special forces, how is itgonna go for the locals and
night vision?
Speaker 2 (28:01):
So the locals will possess their own Version of
night vision, which is more of atraining type thing, where
they're just gonna squint theireyes real good, and look for
Shapes and and unload on.
You know, I want this game, Iwant Any time you're unsure of
anything at this game, I wantyou all to think what would they
(28:22):
really do?
What would it really be like?
In a General sense, becausenobody, nowhere know how, can
hit it every time, right, yeah,but we can go.
Generally speaking, you know,once again, do they have night
vision, afghanistan or Iraq orany?
Of course they do.
Speaker 1 (28:36):
By and large, they don't depends on If it was
before or after Biden lefteverything for them.
Speaker 2 (28:43):
Well, I mean, as far as I know, canada is still
trying to buy that.
We need to replace ours withsome good stuff.
So if we can get the oldterrorists garbage, that'd be an
upgrade for us.
But, but no, I really wantpeople to think about that.
You know, and actually we weretalking about it just before.
I use a really good example forrule sets, and once again
you're not getting this allright now.
This is just the teaser.
(29:04):
Here's a basic thing that I wasasked.
Last night.
Kyle said to me.
You know what was your questionexactly, kyle?
I think it was.
Speaker 3 (29:12):
I was at Deadfall and the guy rolled over on on his
R2B and it went off at my feet,but I got hit by no
fragmentation and with my earprotection on, it really wasn't
anything crazy.
If I was facing the other way Icould have mistaken that for a
flash and I was just kind ofasking whether or not your
(29:33):
grenade rules were gonna beradius or Like fragmentation or
BB hit, bb kill, and so that Ithink that's where I was going
with it.
Speaker 2 (29:42):
Yeah, so so that's just, I wanted him to give you
guys the exact question as itwas asked to me.
So here's the way I think of it.
You know, I bring myself backand I say what would happen if
this was real?
And in my mind I'm thinkingokay, well, you saw flash.
You didn't hear it because youhad your pelter sign.
You didn't feel anything.
To me that represents like thelast thought running through
your brain as your body isliquefied.
(30:03):
Right, that frag grenade wentoff at your feet.
It's.
It's like yes, you didn't feelanything because you didn't have
the chance to feel anything.
You got turned into puddingright, at the very least, your
combat ineffective.
Any way you want to put itright.
Speaker 1 (30:18):
So wounded, you definitely wounded you're
wounded, you got to do.
That actually brings up a.
That was a great question, kyle.
I was gonna ask the same one.
That actually brings up anotherpoint.
Okay, so Kyle's wounded say hedid call it whatever.
That was a great fucking game.
Deadfall, by the way, thank youboys I call it the 12 strong
(30:39):
game and we're gonna touch on iton the end of the echo episode,
because Deadfall this year Jotfwas primarily life fighters and
echo and it was fucking magical.
But we'll touch on that adifferent episode.
I want to go to the medical endof the rule set for this game.
(31:00):
Now, for the people listeningto, there will be a typed up
rule set.
It's all coming down the line.
We're putting stuff together.
There's a lot going on,obviously with the development
of the field.
These new games, the new gamehost the new abilities that we
have now to host, now that PRZ'sgone and we've had to adjust
our game set and go to a bigger,more open field.
(31:23):
Now how is it gonna be For thepeople that are grenade or shot?
What happens next?
Nato side.
Speaker 2 (31:32):
Okay.
So this is a good question andI mean, I think it's obvious.
Two guys put their hand on yourshoulder and you run through
the woods with them until youfind safety now I'm just kidding
you Do not get blown up with ahand grenade and two boys put
their arms around you and yourun with them.
Think about it.
What happens if you get shot?
(31:52):
Right now in the sport we'replaying a hit as a kill Right.
Unless the rules specify inthere, you know we could go, we
could go really crazy with itand be like oh, if you're shot
in the leg, you you know it'sthis or that, but we're, we're
going to go, we're gonnasimulate up to the point where
it stops making sense.
So you're shot, what would?
What would really happen?
(32:13):
I'll break it down for you.
Your team can choose to leaveyour body out in the field.
So it's a real-worldpossibility.
Or they retrieve you and that'sthat's it.
Speaker 1 (32:25):
Is there a bleed out or no?
There is no bleed out.
Perfect, thank you.
Speaker 2 (32:29):
And the reason why I'm not worried about there not
being a bleed out is you willnot be without your squad.
It is simply put.
So Fear not about getting shotout in the woods, because if
you're shot out in the woodsYou're just as light a bit
liable to be shot as a deserterby your own team anyways,
because you better be with yoursquad.
You get hit, you go down,you're calling for medic, you're
(32:50):
wounded.
Right, there's a few ways itcan work.
You could be dragged, you couldbe thrown on a stretcher, you
could be thrown in a vehicle.
You'd be carried by five guys.
Those are the only ways you aredead weight.
So you know those games whereyou run up to a guy and you you,
(33:11):
if Revive him from the dead andyou ask his spirit Can I pull
on your gear?
I, you have my commitment.
Don't sign up for the game ifwe can't pull on you.
Don't sign up for the game ifwe can't lift you.
Don't sign in the game if youcan't lay down in your hit.
Don't sign on the game if youcan't, for some reason, play
dead.
The easiest thing to do it's.
(33:32):
It's less work than sleepinglike you're just laying there
right when you're hit, you justlay there.
That's your only job.
To lay there.
Your team will have to approachyou, put a tourniquet on which
simulates stabilizing your wound.
They will then have to give youa bottle of water, which
represents putting in your IV,and then they X-fill you.
(33:53):
Medics can do this.
That's it, it's simple.
Speaker 1 (33:59):
So there's no your rate back and firing after you
get the bottle of water.
Are you combat effective atthat point, or do you need to be
taken back to a capture point,control point, whatever the fuck
you want to call it, and thenyou're back in?
Or are you instantly back inafter you're turn to kitted and
(34:21):
bottled?
Speaker 2 (34:22):
No.
So I want some mechanism in thegame to give consequence.
You know, if I shoot you andit's easy you just put a turn to
get on you and you drink waterand then you're back shooting.
That squad never really paidthe price for losing you.
I want it felt.
I want you to now have to be Xfilled right.
A squad that loses two or threeguys.
(34:42):
They're not sticking around.
This is not that type of game.
These big World War II you know, iwo Jima fight to the last man
.
Things are not really a thingin current NATO doctrine.
It is preservation of life.
When you lose one or two guys.
Yeah, so it's only one or twoguys, but it's also one or two
(35:03):
guys.
That's a serious thing.
Somebody just you know.
Let's think of what you knowreal world.
Somebody just got killed onyour team.
We need to act that way.
This is a serious thing.
They need to be Kazvacked.
Once they get Kazvacked,they're right back in with their
squad.
So if their squad decides theywant to lose one, and have that
(35:27):
person escort it, because, keepin mind, they can't get off the
field themselves.
If they get loaded into amedical truck, let's say, and
trucked back to their operationpoint.
Their squad can still operatewithout one person, but that one
person can't come in the fielduntil their squad comes back and
reforms with them.
Speaker 1 (35:46):
So what happens if, since there's no bleed out, say
that fight like I know for us, Inever leave a fucking man
behind but say that fightdiverts you to you know, a
kilometer away, because you gotbumped, you move back and you're
(36:09):
currently getting pushed.
Say you're not winning thegunfight and they're pushing
your line further back and tostay alive, you keep moving back
, you keep getting wider,whatever you adjust your L,
whatever that person, becausethere's no bleed out, that now
is cut off and is dead in thebush.
What's their options now?
(36:30):
Do they have to wait or canthey say I'm done, I quit for
now.
I don't wanna sit in the bushfor three hours?
How do they get back into thegame?
So how does that work?
Speaker 2 (36:45):
So there's a couple ways.
One, let's think of real world.
They would likely be capturedFor sure.
They'd likely be videotaped andexecuted or extorted.
I like the idea of any of those.
I think you get creative.
Speaker 1 (37:01):
So they can, and this kind of correlates to the
Deadfall series for those who'veplayed it.
You can take prisoners,absolutely, so this game
warrants taking prisoners, oryou have the option of walking
up to that guy and just endingit right there.
Already we doing dead rightthere.
Speaker 2 (37:22):
So kind of like, if you want to, sure, but even a
body has value, true, you wantplaster social media with photos
of the dead, right like.
Ask yourself at every turn atthis game, what would they do in
real life?
What would they really do?
A dead US soldier is stillworth something.
(37:43):
Sure, he might be worth aprisoner swap.
He might be worth NATO's.
Gotta put in some worksomewhere, right.
What can they do for you now?
Because you have something theywant and I want that felt.
For example, let's say a squadloses two or three guys, that
squad can't go back out.
They're combat ineffective.
And now there are other squads.
(38:03):
Their objectives now change to.
We gotta get these bodies back.
I mean, what a terrible drainis that when you're, let's say,
four squads and now you gottadivert two of them to go
retrieving a dead guy.
Speaker 1 (38:14):
Especially if you're a task to hold a specific point
on the field, exactly soEverything has consequences.
Speaker 2 (38:21):
Everything about this game, like you know, I can say,
defer to the rules, defer toasking yourself what would they
really do?
Right, and I think that's justa cool mechanism to put it in
there.
Right, we have to give somemechanism to it because it's a
game, ultimately, right?
So, like with the DRT thing,with somebody's giving up and
saying, okay, okay, I'm done,it's a possibility, right, I
(38:45):
wouldn't wanna remove that.
It's not gonna be in the rules,right, it's not gonna be
something I want players doing.
But of course, there'sexceptions.
I'll give you one.
Let's say, there's some sort ofa strange scenario where
there's a standoff and you'relaying cooking in the sun.
Don't lay there and get sunstroked out.
Like, let's be reasonable.
But if I see people that aredead going, well, I've been here
(39:08):
for half an hour and getting up, this is not the game for you.
If you can't show up to a game,being prepared to lay down, I
don't know what else you're notprepared to do.
Speaker 1 (39:19):
Like, you're probably there just for the barbecue
100% and that's what we'retrying to change in Ontario
Airsoft.
We're trying to elevate, nowthat we have this canvas, we
have the ability to do that withour games, and that's what I
really like to hear.
And I wanna get thisinformation out because game
hosts, they need to take somecues.
And I know Milsim West wasmentioned and obviously in no
(39:45):
way are we copying what they'redoing.
We're honestly honoring them ina way by following to a certain
degree of what they're doing,and it sounds like you're kinda
taking their direction towardsthe rule end of it, which I like
to see 100%.
Speaker 2 (40:05):
It's purely out of respect for the organization and
there's no affiliation right,so they don't need to feel
embarrassed or threatened or,however, whichever way in
between right?
The bottom line is this this isthe game.
That's like you need to look inthat mirror and go am I a
fucking pussy?
And if you're not sign up, man,you guys are gonna have a blast
(40:27):
.
But if you look in that mirrorand you're like you know what
three of my teammates had tocall a no-duff because, fuck, if
I know, I twisted my ankle.
Twisting your ankle is a seriousthing.
You probably had a sore anklefor a few days.
I mean, that would even stopyou from running.
I don't fucking know, but itdoesn't stop a whole game.
You twisted your fucking ankle,but it really hurts.
(40:51):
Was your life in any sort ofperil?
The answer is never gonna beyes, unless there's some really
odd, obscure reason.
Right, somebody was sick, theywere vomiting.
I have no doubt that's aserious thing and of course, as
a game host, of course we'lltake that very, very seriously,
along with the ankle, my pointbeing, the game doesn't have to
(41:12):
stop for it.
The issue is serious.
We will take it serious, butthe game doesn't stop.
I had my tooth shot out.
I'm gonna scream and itprobably fucking hurt man, you
just had your tooth fucking shotout, I have no doubt.
But I don't need to stopshooting a guy half a kilometer
away because you didn't wearmouth gear.
Unfuck your shit.
(41:34):
Man up and let's play fuckingairsoft.
And if anybody I have never todate and you guys feel free to
send me all the hate mail youwant send me videos of some
fucking Yankee yelling at someHaji saying call your hits bro.
Never fucking happened, oh man,never happened.
Speaker 1 (41:54):
That's actually what.
Let's go touch on this.
You actually got a new questionin my head, so it's.
It is serious, especially as afield owner and I'm talking as a
field owner if someone getshurt.
Now the compound we have theability to get you off the field
super fast Stretchers, trailers, side-by-sides, four-wheelers.
(42:18):
Safety is priority number oneand the field will take care of
that situation so the game cango on.
Okay, so you have that abilityat the compound.
But my question to you as agame host Am I going to see red
shirts on the field or a bunchof NPCs like?
(42:41):
Am I going to feel comfortablewith the amount of staff on the
field at your games, and Is thatsomething that kind of ruins
the immersion?
And what are you going to do Tokind of make sure people are
feeling safe hit calling wise,safety wise but to not kind of
(43:02):
take the Authenticity off thefield?
Do you know what I'm trying tosay?
Speaker 2 (43:06):
Yeah, so let's it's really tough, no well, you know
it's.
It's easy.
It's hard to give the Airsoftcommunity the right answer.
Yeah, that's the problem,because the right answer is
gonna leave a lot of people withsome sore asses.
So here's the thing you hit abig game, 500 player game.
300 of them are good, 200 ofthem are bags of shit.
(43:27):
There's a reason why this gameis not 500 players.
I want the cream showing up, Iwant the guys showing up, that
Both sides want those peopleshowing up.
I want you to be happy yourenemy showed up that day.
I Don't want this to be yourtypical game where these guys
show up and they think they'rebad asses because they've played
(43:48):
for a year and a Half andyou're like who the fuck are
these guys?
And they're gonna cheat likemad, have a barbecue and be gone
in two hours, right?
Yep?
This is not the game for you.
So here's, here's how I wouldhandle this.
Game staff will be present.
Game staff will not be presentin red shirts.
There's no red shirts walkingaround on a battlefield.
You won't know who game staffare.
(44:08):
The reason why is because it'smore or less irrelevant to you.
Game staff are there to makesure we can ensure the Safety
and that the game is followedhonorably.
If there's a problem, you knowthey'll deal with it, but I
don't believe that we should bethere waiting to hit check
somebody, like if you got to dothat.
If you have to hit check aplayer, that player probably
(44:31):
shouldn't be welcome at yourevent.
Yeah, right, at the same timeThere'll be a lot of guys
running Cameras.
Right, here's a quick.
If you're really trulyconcerned, show me footage of
anything and I'll removesomebody Instantaneously from
from any of my presence.
At any event I ever go to.
(44:51):
But realistically, I don't wantthis should not be a problem,
because those caliber of playersI think you're gonna weed
themselves out of this game andthe way that I would like the
game to develop and grow, beingsquad leaders will recruit their
squads.
I think you'll find that thoseplayers just won't show up at
(45:11):
all.
Yeah, they're certainly notwelcome if they do show up.
So, if, if that sounds like you, if you're like, yeah, I'm
gonna cheat a little bit, eat alittle bit, fuck, you stay home,
right, I don't like you, right.
Speaker 1 (45:24):
Let's put a, let's put an example out there.
Say it's tough and I know I'mgonna get some flack back on
this.
Say somebody really wants toplay the event, but they don't
have the fucking uniform, theright weapon in the attire To
play for NATO.
(45:45):
But all their friends areplaying on NATO, but they only
have, you know, the normalT-shirt, pants, whatever that
the other side can wear.
What do you say to people likethat?
Speaker 2 (45:58):
Yeah, I mean, I just say fuck you.
See you next year.
Speaker 3 (46:01):
Well, I mean you also got to consider Hopefully some
of your friends might havesomething you can beg, borrow
and, you know, play with it.
It's a community right, sohopefully you can find a friend
that has something or you knowit doesn't.
It doesn't necessarily have tobe the best quality to still be
the right color pattern.
Speaker 1 (46:19):
Yeah, especially if it comes to being yeah, exactly.
Speaker 3 (46:21):
If it comes to being one game.
Pick up the cheapest repro youcan get, play with it.
Speaker 1 (46:26):
Yeah, just one thing.
Speaker 3 (46:27):
I'll your friends.
Speaker 1 (46:28):
I will never.
I I you can quote me on thisright here I'll never, ever wear
multi cam.
I'm sorry, I just won't do itand it's not a shot at anybody,
it's just I won't play that gameif it requires me wearing multi
cam.
So that's where I like how youdidn't do the tan versus Civvy,
(46:52):
it's more NATO versus Civvy.
There's one other host thatkind of did that which was for a
green mile, which kind ofworked out because you only have
one team shoot in the fuckingcars.
Yeah right, so it's supersimple.
I think what you're doing isyou're forcing people to play
(47:13):
the character, which I reallyenjoy and it kind of Really gets
me excited for an event.
Now, unfortunately, I won't beactually fucked out.
I can't, I'm not even gonnagive anything out.
Speaker 2 (47:25):
Think of what we're solving here, right?
Like those, those games, thebig games, for example.
You know, we all know the biggame I'm talking about, right, I
won't shit talk anybody justyet.
You take your vest off and youwe're on the green team and for
some reason you have a tant-shirt, and now it's hot, so
you're playing with a tant-shirt.
Fuck you, you get, you getcaught out there.
(47:46):
You're a NATO soldier.
Anybody, anybody with militaryfriends, ask what happens if
you're in a combat zone fightingout of uniform.
I Think you then fall under thedefinition of a non uniform
combat.
You're gonna end up in twoplaces, right?
Neither of them are very goodfor you, so Not permissible.
(48:07):
That that's basically it, right.
If you don't have the gear andyou want to play, that's okay, I
can accommodate you.
It's called the other team, yep, right, it doesn't cost much,
in fact.
Hey, we're at action air.
There's a was, a goodwill valuevillage, whatever the fuck it
is literally right there.
Go, buy yourself an old suit,jacket, some slacks and pretend
you're from the caucus, fuckingmountains.
(48:29):
I don't care it costs you what50 cents to do it.
Yeah right it.
You know like it's a strangething to have to talk to people
about in this day and age, butwe're trying to simulate
something.
If you've never been to amilsim and sadly Most of you've
gone to a lot, but you've neverbeen to one you might actually
(48:51):
show up to a milsim this time.
Yep, my commitment I made to youguys earlier about the bullshit
factor, it's gonna resonatethrough all of it.
It's gonna resonate through theobjectives.
It's gonna resonate through Ipromise you you'll never shoot
at somebody and go.
He's wearing our fucking camel.
I don't understand It'll.
It'll come down to that.
It'll come down to where did mymoney go?
(49:13):
You ever paid more to playairsoft and you do at a nice
resort and got fuck all otherthan the opportunity to Bring a
bag of BBs and shoot at somebody.
You will get your money's worth.
Okay, it's not hard to do.
In fact, I'm happy to show howsimple and fun it can be for
everybody perfect.
Speaker 1 (49:33):
We I guess we don't have cost out right now of Of
ticket price, but that's beingworked out.
That'll all be announced realsoon on social media platforms.
Speaker 2 (49:44):
Yeah.
So here's the reality.
It's a high-end game.
It's gonna come with a high-endprice tag.
I'm not here to throw you overthe counter and pull your wallet
out your back pocket, but itcertainly isn't free.
It's going to be in line withother major games.
For a few reasons, the fielddeserves its cut.
Props are not cheap, but guesswhat?
I'm actually gonna buy themthis time.
(50:04):
Your money, that's right.
We'll go to your experience.
It's not lining my pockets.
My team doesn't get New nightvision or thermals or something
like that because you played atthis event.
What happens is you get abetter experience and that money
is not spent on Fireworks.
We're gonna shoot up in the airbecause, I mean, they're nice to
(50:25):
see, but we're not simulatingthe 4th of July Shooter here,
correct?
We're simulating a war zone.
Okay, so I'm sorry If youwanted to show up and shoot
Roman candles up in the air.
I don't know what you'recelebrating.
Hey, you could be celebratingyour birthday on the front line,
but that's what it's gonnarepresent.
There is no sprinklers, nosparklers, no fucking what's
that other thing?
(50:45):
A little worm thing that wentthere.
No burning school houses orother bullshit.
There is fucking hand grenades,there is landmines, there is
IEDs, there is, there areexplosives.
If you want to count points andsay I got 10 points for waving
a flag, good for fucking you, itcounted for nothing in my game
yeah, give yourself all thepoints you want.
Speaker 1 (51:05):
Okay, so quick recap there is pretty specific,
uniform rules for both sides.
Be aware of that.
If you like what you're hearing, start thinking about that with
your buddies.
Sign up.
The information on single orsquad sign up that will come out
(51:26):
with the social media packagerelease as well.
This game, I think, is gonna beregular sign up, but the second
game, or the spin off game,it's gonna be more of a
recruitment style sign up afterwe get the first kind of game
out there.
So this one will probably stickto either squad or single sign
(51:47):
up and then the 2.0 of this gameor this game series
continuation.
That'll be more along the linesof down through the ranks.
Speaker 2 (51:58):
Right, exactly exactly this game.
It's not as big as the nextones are gonna be.
Right, this game is.
It's a larger game.
It ain't that large, yep.
So spots are gonna fill.
Spots are gonna fill fast.
I want the hardest of the hard.
I don't leave your pussies athome.
There you go.
Right, if you wanna show up, Ibrought my new guy, fuck him.
Leave him at home, bring whocan shoot, bring your real boys
(52:22):
and girls out to this event,okay, and then later down the
road, if you love it, come tothe next one.
If you don't like it, fuck you.
You're gonna like it.
Yeah, right, there's no reasonnot to.
It's a very simple premise.
I know this.
Probably I'm sort of realizingthis sounds like a lot.
Here's how we're gonnaaccomplish it.
Maybe this can ease some mindstoo.
We're gonna accomplish this bygiving each side their
(52:46):
individual rule set individuallythe broad spectrum, blanket
rule set that's gonna beavailable for everybody to see.
But we're gonna hone in andfocus individually on small
groups and give them theirindividual objectives, goals and
rules, so that it's not lost.
We're not speaking to 150people at a time and they're all
(53:09):
.
Half of them got it.
Some of them never read it.
Three of them didn'tacknowledge it and one of them
doesn't even know what the fuckthey're there for.
Everybody's gonna be crystalclear.
This is my commitment to youEverybody on that field.
You'll know what's up, or?
Please don't show up.
Speaker 1 (53:25):
What about length?
Speaker 2 (53:29):
Length.
We haven't finalized the actuallength.
We never actually talked aboutthe up to point, but I like
open-ended games.
When it ends it ends, yeah, so Idon't know how to word it, and
I think that's where the onlything that's holding me back on
it is I don't wanna tellsomebody.
It's 24 hours and this is notNovember 11th.
(53:52):
We haven't called the otherside and said, on the 11th
fucking hour, on the 11th day,the war ends when it ends.
It ends when the objectives aremet.
Now, that being said, there'smechanisms in place to make sure
that this game ends within a 24hour span.
It's within that span.
(54:13):
If you show up there andanybody says to me well, I only
went 20 hours, I don't know whatto tell you.
Too fucking bad, stop doing so.
Well, it ends when it ends,because what we've had at
previous events is the game isover, the game is long fucking
over, and then it's like okay,well, let's just skirmish in the
(54:35):
village.
Then I'm sorry, that is adifferent fucking game.
I showed up, we met ourobjectives.
That story is compromised.
It's over.
A game is an event and, bydefinition, an event has a
beginning, a middle and an end.
It has ended.
The new event of randomly shootat people for an arbitrary
reason in a village, that'ssomething else, and if you wanna
(54:58):
do that, that's cool too.
That's just not at this game.
Speaker 1 (55:02):
That's awesome.
Okay, ladies and gentlemen, youare hearing it first on the
Airsoft experience.
I hope that answers a littlebit of the more basic questions
that Airsofters have aboutevents.
You can start to see somesocial media stuff coming on
this event and some other eventsthat the coalition and I are
(55:24):
hosting together, and what wecan do is we're going to do
Facebook live slash zoom wherewe can get more in-depth
information to more of theleaders of this game and that
can start trickling down.
So keep your eyes on socialmedia and I really want you guys
(55:49):
to listen to the.
Actually, the episode will beaired before this one.
So we're gonna be recording aepisode on the Echo team so you
can get a history on how longthey've been around and what
their goals are and stuff likethat.
So listen to that prior to thisone.
(56:09):
That'll be out relatively soonand then this one will be aired
right after.
If you have any questions, feelfree to reach out to me.
I guess any of the othercontact information we'll put in
the description, because we'rekind of working on that end of
it right now, but really excitedabout this change of PACE in
(56:30):
Ontario Airsoft and I justwanted to quickly sit down, even
though it was an hour long, sitdown with Mike, mac, george and
Kyle here and get someinformation out to you guys so
you can start getting excitedbecause this game is coming out
early.
There's gonna be some otherthings.
We're gonna probably do anotherepisode a little bit closer to
(56:51):
after we get more of the finaldetails kind of hashed out and
that's gonna be more of a pointto point kind of episode.
We just kind of wanna get itout there, get into the
listeners ears, into thecommunity, to start getting
excited about what's coming.
2024 at the compound.
So thank you both for comingout and I look forward to
(57:14):
sitting with you again foranother hour and a half in about
20, 30 minutes.
So we're gonna do this all overagain, but we really need to
get you guys out here.
We need the community to knowwho you are and what we're about
and look for us.
So we will see you guys out onthe field and hopefully we will
see you guys out at this game.
(57:35):
We don't even have a name forit yet, but we wanted to get it
out there.
So thanks a lot, guys.
And, yeah, thanks for comingout, thanks for having us Thanks
again.
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