Seasoned Business Growth Strategist Trinity Rose continues her conversation with Eve Gaines, co-creator of Rituel Retreats, exploring the realities of building a wellness hospitality business in uncertain times. Together, they reflect on the alchemy of entrepreneurship—navigating the early days of launching a retreat space during COVID-19, balancing generosity with sustainability, and learning how boundaries and self-worth shape both leadership and longevity. This is a conversation about redefining success, honoring women’s work, and trusting the creative process as a form of transformation.
Time Stamps
00:00 The Power of Openness and Surrender
03:09 Building a Vision: The Early Days of Rituel
10:45 Navigating Business During COVID-19
16:29 Balancing Generosity and Sustainability in Business
22:09 Self-Worth, Boundaries, and Women’s Work
25:32 Defining Personal Success and Transformation
Guest info:
Eve Gaines — creative entrepreneur and co-founder of Rituel Retreats, a wellness space rooted in healing, collaboration, and connection to land.
Website: rituelretreats.com
Instagram: @rituelretreats
Additional Links:
Field Notes: https://rituelretreats.com/field-notes-journal
Rituel's Atelier: https://rituelretreats.com/atelier
Trinity's 1:1 Container: https://illumeconsultingstudio.com/container
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:03):
I do think there are a lot of forces in place that are
conspiring to bring us what whatwe want, what might be great for
us, and we kind of have to be open to those and open to them
looking differently than we might have thought that they
would. Welcome to the Alchemy.
Of success, a space. Dedicated to exploring the non
(00:25):
linear and intuitive paths of purpose driven creators,
practitioners and entrepreneurs.Join me to listen to their often
brave and inspiring stories of transformation and resilience.
I'm Trinity Rose, a seasoned brand builder and integrative
business strategist. Hello, hello and welcome back.
(00:49):
This is Part 2 of my interview with Eve Gaines, the founder of
Ritual. If you haven't already listened
to Part 1, I highly recommend you about it.
Get out. Before we dive back into that
conversation, I wanted to share something from this past
weekend. I was at one of Eve's leadership
immersions and during it she LEDa beautiful meditation.
(01:10):
And in the meditation, she was reminding us of the power of
being present and of simply being and the non doing, which
can be super hard for so many ofus, especially those of us who
are more type A who get our dopamine hits from checking
things off the To Do List. And maybe, you know, avoid our
(01:32):
feelings by focusing on, well, anything but the painful
feelings that might be brewing underneath.
Because at least for me, I know that taking action, and I think
I've mentioned this before, thatbeing in the doing makes me feel
more in control. And while I'm a big believer in
(01:54):
taking action, of course I'm also learning and relearning
that there is real power in the surrender and trust piece too.
This is an ongoing theme for me that I'm really working on and
it reminds me of this kind of correlating piece, the non
(02:15):
attachment piece of yes, going after what we want, calling it
N, but also being unattached to the outcome and open to what the
universe may have in store. Which if I'm remembering
correctly, I believe is one of the core principles.
And the Vedanta philosophy, I'm not sure I'm pronouncing that
(02:36):
correctly, but it's a philosophythat centers around non
attachment. It's not about renouncing desire
or not going after what you want, but rather not grasping,
which is beautiful in theory butnot always easy to do in
practice to be able to. Seek to take.
Action, but without attachment. That's the energy I'm trying to
(02:59):
work with more and more. Even I explore a lot of similar
themes and so much more in Part 2, which I'm excited for you to
hear. And just as a reminder, where we
left off an Eve story was we were at a point where she and I
had been laying the foundation for the business and the brand,
(03:19):
and it was time to start turningthose 20 acres of raw land into
a space we had been envisioning for Ritual.
So now we're going to jump back in with Eve talking about that
early building period. All right, let's get going.
Looking back, it was about I think six months before COVID
(03:43):
that we hired some contractors. And in a minimal way, we started
just clearing some areas, putting in some flags down
things that were very like lighton the land.
But at this point, we'd own the land for a long enough time.
And it was really forming in my mind where I wanted to, to cite
things which, you know, came from this deeper orientation
(04:06):
toward ecological designs. We started working with an
incredible team. And then the world shut down and
these workers were up in nature working.
They were loving coming up there.
They were bringing their families up there on the
weekends because it was when allof the parks and the beaches and
(04:29):
everything were closed. And Glenn and I, at this point,
you know, nothing was happening.Our kids were both in Zoom
school at home, and we knew thatit wouldn't be very great for
the health of our little family system to be right there.
Kind of hovering or? Hovering over our teenage
(04:50):
daughters. Exactly.
So we were like, OK, well, let'sgo up, let's go up to the land,
let's go up to the property. And so we got in this pattern
and Glenn wasn't working. What?
Gee, it's so rare. It had been honestly like, well
over a decade of him working really flat out.
And so we were having these dayswhere in the morning we would go
(05:11):
up to the property, we do what we could be doing alongside the
workers doing what they were doing.
And we were just making these enormous leaps in terms of what
we were creating. You know, Glenn discovered his
love of tractors and was moving things around.
It was actually amazing for our marriage because, you know,
(05:33):
having spent so much of our, of,of the, the, the previous
chapter raising children being the primary focus.
You know, the focus was on the four of us.
And this allowed the focus to shift back to the two of us in a
way that we hadn't had the opportunity to do since early on
in our marriage. And so we felt like we were kind
(05:54):
of playing hooky from our lives and our skill set.
Fortunately, also really, they're compatible.
They're so different. He was loving putting in
irrigation lines and figuring out all the mechanical things.
And meanwhile I'm dreaming into the beauty of it and the
materials and creating shade structures and all these things.
But it was just really, it was really matching for both of us.
(06:17):
And it felt so exciting because we were we were doing something
creative and with what we wantedto create.
The idea was that we wanted to feel luxurious and comfortable
and beautiful for the senses while being as light on the land
as possible and while merging with the elements on the land as
(06:39):
much as. Possible and we have already
created a lot of the direction for the brand.
So. Really it was, yes.
And that was amazing work. And I do have to say, and so
much of this is a credit to you going through that process of
visioning because honestly, to go way back to to having written
(07:02):
that little piece in my journal about my ideal vision of what I
wanted to create when we bought this land, I did not immediately
in my mind go to, oh, this is what it's for.
This is what we're doing there. And it really wasn't until you
and I began to work into the idea that it had all of the
elements that it needed to be part of at least the first step
(07:27):
toward the, the real, you know, North Star orienting idea.
And so, so much of that came from the work that you and I had
done. And like, you know, I feel like
you lit the way for me to ask these bigger questions.
And also you didn't let me scaleback.
You let me dream. And that's just so, I mean, it's
(07:48):
invaluable. And then yes, no, no, no.
And you're so no, you're brilliant.
And then concrete. And then what are we doing and
how are we doing the week? We were choosing elements that
to me felt so, so profoundly creative and such a beautiful
exploration. And then became, how do the
(08:09):
pieces that we've figured out, how do those synergistically
work together? You know, what I loved about the
process and continue to love about the process was this
gorgeous aspect of like allowingwhat we'd created to inform what
the first steps were. But we could base it on your
solid knowledge of how to bring something into being.
(08:29):
And as amazing as partner as Glenn is, we're not partners in
this aspect of the business and of creation in this way.
And to be honest, I hadn't imagined doing something as a
solar printer because it's incredibly daunting.
And so honestly, to work with somebody in this deep process,
(08:50):
it was so supportive and to havethis guidance and, and the
feeling of really being empowered, you know, you're,
you're the way you support, continue to support what we do
now together. It allows for the growth of this
brand and it allows for a very different way of doing business
(09:10):
too. Yeah.
We've been able to do in a way that's organic without getting
huge investment. And I think it's get open to the
knowledge that I brought from the experience of having my own
startup, but also all the work that I've done with clients for
years and kind of seeing what different situations.
Bring. And then this situation, what's
(09:31):
the right way to like? Move forward.
And then you. Open the door.
Sometimes in family it's like we're like, oh, it's COVID, this
is not. It's gonna be quiet.
And then there was a major boom such you could not have
anticipated. Such a boom, such a boom because
you know, even down to we joke about, you know, the table that
(09:53):
I designed, which is this massive farm style table, you
know, with big benches. But like ironically, it's 6 feet
across the table from what? Yeah, yes, from one side of the
table to the other, you know, width wise.
So it like it fit all of the allof the the COVID precautions and
(10:13):
people were feeling OK enough tobe in nature, but they needed to
be far enough away from each other and they could do that in
this space. I was kind of like oak, you
know, to open the business during COVID.
Oh, it was an odd move, the. It well, it'll be the tasting
period, which is which it was, but you also think it's just
going to be a slow trickle. This is it.
Well, this is exactly exactly so.
(10:35):
I'm really. Curious to.
Hear what? Did that soft launch period
during COVID reveal to you about?
Yourself. Wow.
Well, yeah, the soft launch thatwe had during COVID, it was it
was really a time when I realized, I think that I was
(10:56):
more ready than I thought I was.It was sort of like being
plunged into the deep end in my mind.
We were still creating the space.
We were still imagining into sort of the final iteration of
the website. Everything was still in
formation. It just kind of catalyzed us
(11:17):
into action and felt like peoplewere also so primed.
The COVID, for many, it was suchan intense experience.
I think for all of us, it had usreally re evaluating our lives,
sitting with our values, just being more intentional about how
we were moving in the world, about how we were caring for
ourselves and for one another. And that really just set the
(11:39):
stage for there being such a compatibility with what we had
envisioned. I really feel like COVID was
kind of a collective rite of passage.
And so I guess it really had me being creative in a way that was
uninhibited. So I kind of got out of my own
way. You know, for so many of us, we
(11:59):
are often up against this challenge of creating
perfection. Sure, no one can relate to that,
but sort of idyllic version of what we want to put out into the
world and we can be our own harshest judge of what that
might be. And I think the way that I love
(12:20):
to work and what I love to remember is that the creative
experience is Co collaborative. So we're bringing in our own
magic, we're bringing in our ownideas, we're bringing in our
skills and our gifts. But then we're working with each
other. If we're collaborating with
other people, but we're also working with these larger
energies that are applied. You know, there's the weather to
(12:43):
consider, there's what's going on planetarily.
You know, there are all these forces.
And so for with COVID, it was really this time when we were
subject to that in such an intense way, there was this
feeling that everyone had of like, all of a sudden we can't
do what we want to do. So I think it created this
(13:06):
impetus to just push away the inhibitions that might keep you
blocked at other times and just go for it.
And ultimately what we also found was once we got into doing
the things that we plan to do, it felt so good and cathartic to
be offering something of value to people and to be just seeing
(13:28):
how it affected them and how howmuch people wanted it and needed
it and how much impact to themselves.
Yeah, so true. In what ways do you think that
specific period ended up shapingour business model?
Yeah. So I think it allowed us to
really try things out. I think that going into this,
(13:53):
when we were envisioning what wewere going to offer, we really
had shaped something that was kind of perfect for the
circumstances of COVID, if that makes sense.
I guess really though, it also expanded the model of this very
(14:14):
bespoke, custom curated experience that I think we knew
was special and was something that all didn't receive
everywhere. So it really allowed us to try
that out. At the same time, I feel like we
were trying out so many things. We had workshops because we
wanted to make sure that people who wanted an accessible
(14:35):
experience could come up and could have a a couple of hours
of relaxation in nature. This was also when when parks,
when when beaches were closed. So it allowed us to test out
some different formats and formulas of things.
Then also realized what we didn't want to be doing and
(14:55):
interestingly, and when indoor spaces were open again, when
places that already offer these types of classes and workshops
we're open again, we knew that really wasn't our niche.
It's lovely to have that happen on occasion when there's someone
special to feature. But at the end of the day, the
experiences that we can offer people when they spend longer up
(15:16):
on the land, when they come backfor a series of sessions or a
series of groups, it just demonswhat they're able to alchemize
within within themselves. I think just gave us the kind of
the reassurance that I know I needed.
We're on the right track, but italso we were so we were booked
(15:40):
in a way that I hadn't anticipated.
So it also taught me the value of setting some limits and
saying no, which you know, when anyone tells me they want
something that we can do. Well, I'm usually a wholehearted
yes, but it was definitely a time of needing to be with
myself, with my capacity. And then also it was a time when
(16:03):
we realized what aspects of thisthat we really want to scale
back, that we want to fine tune,that we want to wait until later
to offer because it will allow us to feel, it will allow us to
feel like we can do it in an, ina more complete resourced way.
And, and so that was, it was allimportant learning.
(16:26):
Yeah, really good time. Yeah.
So you you kind of touched on itvery briefly.
But. You have you have a tendency
that I've seen and so many of mycreative and passionate clients,
which is this desire to do more,create more, expand more and why
(16:47):
I would say we both get energized.
By new ideas I. Tend to lean towards.
Keeping things a. Little more operationally
efficient and I'm usually looking at whether the numbers
add up. And that's just kind of how my
business brain works. And I think you come more from a
deep desire to serve. So I'm curious what your
(17:08):
thoughts are on how do you thinkthat difference between us
serves the business unless it just drives you crazy, you can
speak? To either absolutely vital, it's
really become it's become so essential to run things through
both lenses. At the end of the day, we want
(17:30):
to keep on doing what we are doing.
We want to do it well and we want to continue to be able to
build. And so I think, yeah, I can get
very enthusiastic and when I seea need or, you know, even just
don't want or I feel a desire inthe ethers, I'm going to respond
with all the things that we can do.
(17:51):
But taking the time to run things through the pragmatic and
practical. I think it's allowed us to
really fine TuneIn a way that's important.
And in the scaling back and in the figuring out what it's a
season for, that's allowed us tobe much more precise and much
more even paced. And you know, I think it's also
(18:13):
allowed us to give hopefully ourcommunity the sense that we that
we're thoughtful in what we offer.
Well said, so true. One of the things I really love
about you is your generosity andalso how important things like
letting our practitioners set their own rates and you making
(18:33):
sure we offer scholarships for people who might not otherwise
available to attend our programs.
All those types of things are soimportant to you.
And that kind of generosity has been such a.
Foundational. Part of our business model, but
one of the challenges we've talked about a fair amount is
how it can be hard to set fees for you, you know, that actually
(18:57):
make the business sustainable. And this is not something you're
alone. And I see this type of struggle
a lot. And I feel like it's almost as
common as a challenge of settingboundaries.
And sometimes those two even go hand in hand.
And just because I think it's such a important topic.
(19:18):
What do you think that challengeis really about and how have you
been working on it? Yeah, well, I think I have to
1st speak to why it's important for me to be operating in the in
a different paradigm. And This is why I appreciate
being Co collaborative with you because I do feel like for what
(19:40):
we're bringing into the world, it's important to us that that
it nurture genuine community. And we do live in a society
where there are accessibility issues, There are issues with
access. There are issues that make it
really important, I feel, to make sure that the beautiful
(20:01):
experiences we are creating aren't just available to the to
the affluent and making sure that practitioners are fairly
compensated. I've been in the, you know, the
world of. Healing arts for so long and
have watched so many people become depleted and not paid
well. So that's a value for me that I
(20:22):
have really tried to put into practice.
And then yeah, you're right though, the last threshold of
that is putting the business into the equation to make sure
that our profit is also considered so that it can be
sustainable. I think it really comes down to,
and this might be a broad generalization, but I think I
think as women, if we're doing something that genuinely brings
(20:48):
us joy or something we're sort of invested in making sure
exists on the planet that there there can be like a bit of self
sacrifice in that in terms of, you know, I'll give it away
because I want to do it or I'll give it away.
I want to know that it is going to happen.
(21:10):
And then truthfully, I think a lot of us carry the wound of
women's work having been undervalued, that, you know,
just the fact that that when a woman is raising children,
managing her home, she's seen tonot be working.
It's not a paid position. Absolutely.
And do you think that there's a correlation between setting
(21:32):
boundaries and, you know, abandonment of self or?
Undervaluing skills. Do you think that those are
correlated? Yeah, I really think that they
can be. I definitely think that it's all
part of the same matrix of experience.
And I don't think that those three pieces are oftentimes
(21:56):
deeply linked and connected. And oftentimes they have to do
with the extent to which we feelsafe and secure, the extent to
which we feel valued and the extent to which we feel that we
can express ourselves and reallytrust.
(22:18):
I think at least self abandonment for one, really does
stem from the feeling of having been abandoned.
So it's that lack of security, it's that feeling of not having
your own taproot of of grounded connection and the assurance
that you are resourced that things are going to be available
(22:40):
for you. And so I think look at that one,
it can come from that, from thatplace of not feeling like there
was, there was a steady stream of love and appreciation and you
know, that you were provided for.
And then in the way you needed to be at critical junctures in
your life. I think that oftentimes the lack
(23:02):
of boundaries, you know, that's,that's something I'm sorry to be
oversimplifying for. Obviously there's so much nuance
to this that oftentimes we sacrifice our own boundaries if
we are seeking love. And so there's this like if we
go beyond meeting people halfwayor if we offer them more than
(23:24):
they were expecting, then that'smore likely to lead to feeling
appreciate it. Like for those especially who
didn't grow up feeling safe and secure and like they were being
loved back or loved in the ways that they might have needed to.
And it can be so subtle you alsosocietal messaging that we get
(23:47):
about what we need to do and howwe need to perform to be
valuable, lovable, intelligent, you know, and often times for
women, that's an it. It leads to over exertion.
There is like a there's a takingyourself out of just doing what
what the job is or doing things in a way that's good enough.
(24:09):
We push ourselves beyond becausethe world is has not been that
friendly or accommodating of thefemale psyche and intelligence.
And oftentimes we're told we're too much.
So we kind of set these false boundaries.
We please, we contort ourselves to be to be the perfect package
(24:33):
to be the part, the good girl, the person who can, you know,
show up when nobody else will. And that can lead to lack of of
boundaries. And then same thing can really
be said about setting our own pricing for things is a
reflection of that sense of selfworth.
And if at any age in life that'sbeen compromised or if at any
(24:55):
stage in life our worth hasn't been validated, then I think we
can be pretty quick to undervalue what we're bringing
to the table. To not appreciate our gifts, to
not see our value, to feel like we need to go over and above.
We need to deliver 10 times moreto be to be seen to be doing a
(25:19):
good job that was. So beautifully said, I was just
really curious as to your view on that.
I think it's really important topic so thanks for going there
with me. So pervasive and my pleasure,
it's so important. So I want to parlay into what's
your personal definition of success?
So I'm going to weave in one of the beautiful words that you've
(25:42):
chosen actually for this processfor this podcast, which is the
word alchemy and the definition of the word alchemy, which as
well as being the precursor of modern chemistry, as it says
here, the seemingly magical process of transformation,
(26:02):
creation, combination. My definition of success would
be that process as it applies tomy life personally.
So it's when I feel like I am actually in the process of
creation and transformation. And and so it's like in my life,
(26:24):
I'm able to do something that I feel has impact and I feel has
resonance, and then hope that what I'm doing is able to create
those ripples and waves of things that I want to exist more
in the world. It's really important work
hasn't been that straight up linear.
(26:45):
Path it's not at all. But in some ways it has a very
clear through line, even when you didn't know it did.
Yeah, even when I did not know what I was doing and I was
searching around, but from definitely from the moment when
you and I started working together, I felt like it's began
more and more to make to make sense and to take steps that I
(27:05):
couldn't have even anticipated. I have two more questions for
you and then we're going to go into my fun little rapid fire
fall segment that I do with the people I have on this podcast
who I know very, very well. What is the worst business slash
(27:26):
career advice anyone ever gave you and why?
OK, well I feel like I'm going to go back to college again.
Like did we already talk about? We already covered this because
she very clearly told me when I when she was asking me to think
about the things that I might like to study.
And I came into her office with my little like tender, I think I
(27:50):
might want to be an architect. And she honestly shot me down so
fast and told me I had no business thinking about that.
So I just want to say too that don't let people shoot you down
and then they will. And that I had to do so much
work to get myself to a place ofjust talking to my younger self
(28:10):
about letting her be creative and self expressed.
And I knew they did go to school.
I did. I did.
The last question is what advicewould you give your younger
self? I know that it was a very
challenging time when you first came to New York.
Yes. And it was a pretty challenging
(28:31):
period for you and your family. What would you tell her now?
My goodness, in that moment whenI was pretty, pretty well
raising myself in Manhattan, I think I would tell her that she
was going to create a family of choice.
And that she was going to be able to with the the bravery and
(28:56):
the self direction and the things that people who might
have up until that point in her life told her made her a little
too much for actually going to serve her and guide her.
And to trust herself in taking risks and know that she is not
alone. And that she's going to find
really exquisite accompaniment. And that life is going to
(29:18):
actually turn up to a beautiful adventure.
Become me all chopped up. Yes.
I think that most people have gone through a really
challenging period and I remember the first time the
therapist asked me, what would you tell your Amber self now?
I was really kind of profound. I kind of like be able to see
(29:41):
the shift and the arc and, you know, the inner wisdom that we
get from those challenges. Completely.
Completely. Well, thank you for following
that part. Thank you so much.
I'm going to this part to reallyquickly from tears to giggles.
Oh, yes, exactly. Always, always, always.
(30:01):
So just a reminder, there's a rough fighter.
Question. OK, I'll answer them right away.
True or. False.
True or false? It's.
Too hard. Excellent.
And I come on a game show. True or false, you are a double
Scorpio. I certainly am with many other
placements in Scorpio, so many that it terrified the astrologer
who first looked at my chart when I was born.
(30:23):
Yes, it's all good. I'm safe.
Although people who meet you noware usually really surprised to
hear that. Done a lot of work of refinement
not too. One of my favorite things about
you is your ability to find humor in your own humanity.
Do you agree? It is.
Humor is one of my favorite pathways to wisdom.
(30:46):
Yes. So true.
Sorry, very true. True.
You're. Obsessed with fried green
tomatoes? Never.
Just false. You were the lead senior in an
all girls band when you were in college?
Oh my. Goodness, so false and I wish it
was true. See ya, you have a little rescue
dog named Moxie who's arrived toscuffle with a coyote who is
(31:08):
supposedly A terror to all otherdogs but is one of the sweetest
pups I've ever met. So true and has lived through
rattlesnake bites and all kinds of yeah, crazy, yeah crazy.
Like that dog is like. Love Moxie.
OK, well that's that's it. Let's spend of our time.
Thank you. It's.
Been so lovely. I have loved it and I love you.
(31:32):
I appreciate what you're creating.
Thank you for sharing your story.
Thank you. Thank you.
OK, I hope you enjoyed that conversation with the lovely EVE
games. As many of you know, our retreat
land sadly was impacted by the LA fires.
(31:54):
And. We're currently in a season of
rebuilding. We knew it would be important to
keep the momentum going and stayconnected with our community
while doing. So so.
We created something really special.
It's a seasonal magazine called Field Notes.
The way for us to keep sharing the essence of ritual even while
the land is healing and we rebelled.
(32:17):
There's writing, really gorgeousphotography by Lauren Purvey,
recipes, rituals. It's such a beautiful reflection
of the spirit of the retreat, and I hope you'll check it out.
We also launched. Our atelier as a pop up in
Topanga for those of you who arelocal and for those of who you
(32:38):
who are not. We have it as an online shop on
our website. We filled it with items we've
fearfully chosen to feel like anextension of the retreat
experience. And lastly, I just want you to
say if you're in a season of building or evolving something
(32:59):
meaningful and you feel you'd benefit from support that's both
strategic and intuitive. I currently have a couple
openings inside my one-on-one private container.
It's a space for those who want to build with attention and who
are looking. For a clear structure.
Strategic partnership and grounded guidance to help shape,
(33:22):
hold and sustainably grow their vision.
I'll link everything in the shownotes in case you want to
explore more. And as always, thank you for
being here, for listening, and for being a part of this space.
If you're enjoying the podcasts,Please remember to rate, review,
share, and follow. It truly helps more than you
(33:44):
know. More soon.
I do think there are a lot of forces in place that are
conspiring to bring us what whatwe want, what might be great for
us, and we kind of have to be open to those and open to them
looking differently than we might have thought that they
would. Welcome to the Alchemy.
Of success, a space. Dedicated to exploring the non
(00:25):
linear and intuitive paths of purpose driven creators,
practitioners and entrepreneurs.Join me to listen to their often
brave and inspiring stories of transformation and resilience.
I'm Trinity Rose, a seasoned brand builder and integrative
business strategist. Hello, hello and welcome back.
(00:49):
This is Part 2 of my interview with Eve Gaines, the founder of
Ritual. If you haven't already listened
to Part 1, I highly recommend you about it.
Get out. Before we dive back into that
conversation, I wanted to share something from this past
weekend. I was at one of Eve's leadership
immersions and during it she LEDa beautiful meditation.
(01:10):
And in the meditation, she was reminding us of the power of
being present and of simply being and the non doing, which
can be super hard for so many ofus, especially those of us who
are more type A who get our dopamine hits from checking
things off the To Do List. And maybe, you know, avoid our
(01:32):
feelings by focusing on, well, anything but the painful
feelings that might be brewing underneath.
Because at least for me, I know that taking action, and I think
I've mentioned this before, thatbeing in the doing makes me feel
more in control. And while I'm a big believer in
(01:54):
taking action, of course I'm also learning and relearning
that there is real power in the surrender and trust piece too.
This is an ongoing theme for me that I'm really working on and
it reminds me of this kind of correlating piece, the non
(02:15):
attachment piece of yes, going after what we want, calling it
N, but also being unattached to the outcome and open to what the
universe may have in store. Which if I'm remembering
correctly, I believe is one of the core principles.
And the Vedanta philosophy, I'm not sure I'm pronouncing that
(02:36):
correctly, but it's a philosophythat centers around non
attachment. It's not about renouncing desire
or not going after what you want, but rather not grasping,
which is beautiful in theory butnot always easy to do in
practice to be able to. Seek to take.
Action, but without attachment. That's the energy I'm trying to
(02:59):
work with more and more. Even I explore a lot of similar
themes and so much more in Part 2, which I'm excited for you to
hear. And just as a reminder, where we
left off an Eve story was we were at a point where she and I
had been laying the foundation for the business and the brand,
(03:19):
and it was time to start turningthose 20 acres of raw land into
a space we had been envisioning for Ritual.
So now we're going to jump back in with Eve talking about that
early building period. All right, let's get going.
Looking back, it was about I think six months before COVID
(03:43):
that we hired some contractors. And in a minimal way, we started
just clearing some areas, putting in some flags down
things that were very like lighton the land.
But at this point, we'd own the land for a long enough time.
And it was really forming in my mind where I wanted to, to cite
things which, you know, came from this deeper orientation
(04:06):
toward ecological designs. We started working with an
incredible team. And then the world shut down and
these workers were up in nature working.
They were loving coming up there.
They were bringing their families up there on the
weekends because it was when allof the parks and the beaches and
(04:29):
everything were closed. And Glenn and I, at this point,
you know, nothing was happening.Our kids were both in Zoom
school at home, and we knew thatit wouldn't be very great for
the health of our little family system to be right there.
Kind of hovering or? Hovering over our teenage
(04:50):
daughters. Exactly.
So we were like, OK, well, let'sgo up, let's go up to the land,
let's go up to the property. And so we got in this pattern
and Glenn wasn't working. What?
Gee, it's so rare. It had been honestly like, well
over a decade of him working really flat out.
And so we were having these dayswhere in the morning we would go
(05:11):
up to the property, we do what we could be doing alongside the
workers doing what they were doing.
And we were just making these enormous leaps in terms of what
we were creating. You know, Glenn discovered his
love of tractors and was moving things around.
It was actually amazing for our marriage because, you know,
(05:33):
having spent so much of our, of,of the, the, the previous
chapter raising children being the primary focus.
You know, the focus was on the four of us.
And this allowed the focus to shift back to the two of us in a
way that we hadn't had the opportunity to do since early on
in our marriage. And so we felt like we were kind
(05:54):
of playing hooky from our lives and our skill set.
Fortunately, also really, they're compatible.
They're so different. He was loving putting in
irrigation lines and figuring out all the mechanical things.
And meanwhile I'm dreaming into the beauty of it and the
materials and creating shade structures and all these things.
But it was just really, it was really matching for both of us.
(06:17):
And it felt so exciting because we were we were doing something
creative and with what we wantedto create.
The idea was that we wanted to feel luxurious and comfortable
and beautiful for the senses while being as light on the land
as possible and while merging with the elements on the land as
(06:39):
much as. Possible and we have already
created a lot of the direction for the brand.
So. Really it was, yes.
And that was amazing work. And I do have to say, and so
much of this is a credit to you going through that process of
visioning because honestly, to go way back to to having written
(07:02):
that little piece in my journal about my ideal vision of what I
wanted to create when we bought this land, I did not immediately
in my mind go to, oh, this is what it's for.
This is what we're doing there. And it really wasn't until you
and I began to work into the idea that it had all of the
elements that it needed to be part of at least the first step
(07:27):
toward the, the real, you know, North Star orienting idea.
And so, so much of that came from the work that you and I had
done. And like, you know, I feel like
you lit the way for me to ask these bigger questions.
And also you didn't let me scaleback.
You let me dream. And that's just so, I mean, it's
(07:48):
invaluable. And then yes, no, no, no.
And you're so no, you're brilliant.
And then concrete. And then what are we doing and
how are we doing the week? We were choosing elements that
to me felt so, so profoundly creative and such a beautiful
exploration. And then became, how do the
(08:09):
pieces that we've figured out, how do those synergistically
work together? You know, what I loved about the
process and continue to love about the process was this
gorgeous aspect of like allowingwhat we'd created to inform what
the first steps were. But we could base it on your
solid knowledge of how to bring something into being.
(08:29):
And as amazing as partner as Glenn is, we're not partners in
this aspect of the business and of creation in this way.
And to be honest, I hadn't imagined doing something as a
solar printer because it's incredibly daunting.
And so honestly, to work with somebody in this deep process,
(08:50):
it was so supportive and to havethis guidance and, and the
feeling of really being empowered, you know, you're,
you're the way you support, continue to support what we do
now together. It allows for the growth of this
brand and it allows for a very different way of doing business
(09:10):
too. Yeah.
We've been able to do in a way that's organic without getting
huge investment. And I think it's get open to the
knowledge that I brought from the experience of having my own
startup, but also all the work that I've done with clients for
years and kind of seeing what different situations.
Bring. And then this situation, what's
(09:31):
the right way to like? Move forward.
And then you. Open the door.
Sometimes in family it's like we're like, oh, it's COVID, this
is not. It's gonna be quiet.
And then there was a major boom such you could not have
anticipated. Such a boom, such a boom because
you know, even down to we joke about, you know, the table that
(09:53):
I designed, which is this massive farm style table, you
know, with big benches. But like ironically, it's 6 feet
across the table from what? Yeah, yes, from one side of the
table to the other, you know, width wise.
So it like it fit all of the allof the the COVID precautions and
(10:13):
people were feeling OK enough tobe in nature, but they needed to
be far enough away from each other and they could do that in
this space. I was kind of like oak, you
know, to open the business during COVID.
Oh, it was an odd move, the. It well, it'll be the tasting
period, which is which it was, but you also think it's just
going to be a slow trickle. This is it.
Well, this is exactly exactly so.
(10:35):
I'm really. Curious to.
Hear what? Did that soft launch period
during COVID reveal to you about?
Yourself. Wow.
Well, yeah, the soft launch thatwe had during COVID, it was it
was really a time when I realized, I think that I was
(10:56):
more ready than I thought I was.It was sort of like being
plunged into the deep end in my mind.
We were still creating the space.
We were still imagining into sort of the final iteration of
the website. Everything was still in
formation. It just kind of catalyzed us
(11:17):
into action and felt like peoplewere also so primed.
The COVID, for many, it was suchan intense experience.
I think for all of us, it had usreally re evaluating our lives,
sitting with our values, just being more intentional about how
we were moving in the world, about how we were caring for
ourselves and for one another. And that really just set the
(11:39):
stage for there being such a compatibility with what we had
envisioned. I really feel like COVID was
kind of a collective rite of passage.
And so I guess it really had me being creative in a way that was
uninhibited. So I kind of got out of my own
way. You know, for so many of us, we
(11:59):
are often up against this challenge of creating
perfection. Sure, no one can relate to that,
but sort of idyllic version of what we want to put out into the
world and we can be our own harshest judge of what that
might be. And I think the way that I love
(12:20):
to work and what I love to remember is that the creative
experience is Co collaborative. So we're bringing in our own
magic, we're bringing in our ownideas, we're bringing in our
skills and our gifts. But then we're working with each
other. If we're collaborating with
other people, but we're also working with these larger
energies that are applied. You know, there's the weather to
(12:43):
consider, there's what's going on planetarily.
You know, there are all these forces.
And so for with COVID, it was really this time when we were
subject to that in such an intense way, there was this
feeling that everyone had of like, all of a sudden we can't
do what we want to do. So I think it created this
(13:06):
impetus to just push away the inhibitions that might keep you
blocked at other times and just go for it.
And ultimately what we also found was once we got into doing
the things that we plan to do, it felt so good and cathartic to
be offering something of value to people and to be just seeing
(13:28):
how it affected them and how howmuch people wanted it and needed
it and how much impact to themselves.
Yeah, so true. In what ways do you think that
specific period ended up shapingour business model?
Yeah. So I think it allowed us to
really try things out. I think that going into this,
(13:53):
when we were envisioning what wewere going to offer, we really
had shaped something that was kind of perfect for the
circumstances of COVID, if that makes sense.
I guess really though, it also expanded the model of this very
(14:14):
bespoke, custom curated experience that I think we knew
was special and was something that all didn't receive
everywhere. So it really allowed us to try
that out. At the same time, I feel like we
were trying out so many things. We had workshops because we
wanted to make sure that people who wanted an accessible
(14:35):
experience could come up and could have a a couple of hours
of relaxation in nature. This was also when when parks,
when when beaches were closed. So it allowed us to test out
some different formats and formulas of things.
Then also realized what we didn't want to be doing and
(14:55):
interestingly, and when indoor spaces were open again, when
places that already offer these types of classes and workshops
we're open again, we knew that really wasn't our niche.
It's lovely to have that happen on occasion when there's someone
special to feature. But at the end of the day, the
experiences that we can offer people when they spend longer up
(15:16):
on the land, when they come backfor a series of sessions or a
series of groups, it just demonswhat they're able to alchemize
within within themselves. I think just gave us the kind of
the reassurance that I know I needed.
We're on the right track, but italso we were so we were booked
(15:40):
in a way that I hadn't anticipated.
So it also taught me the value of setting some limits and
saying no, which you know, when anyone tells me they want
something that we can do. Well, I'm usually a wholehearted
yes, but it was definitely a time of needing to be with
myself, with my capacity. And then also it was a time when
(16:03):
we realized what aspects of thisthat we really want to scale
back, that we want to fine tune,that we want to wait until later
to offer because it will allow us to feel, it will allow us to
feel like we can do it in an, ina more complete resourced way.
And, and so that was, it was allimportant learning.
(16:26):
Yeah, really good time. Yeah.
So you you kind of touched on itvery briefly.
But. You have you have a tendency
that I've seen and so many of mycreative and passionate clients,
which is this desire to do more,create more, expand more and why
(16:47):
I would say we both get energized.
By new ideas I. Tend to lean towards.
Keeping things a. Little more operationally
efficient and I'm usually looking at whether the numbers
add up. And that's just kind of how my
business brain works. And I think you come more from a
deep desire to serve. So I'm curious what your
(17:08):
thoughts are on how do you thinkthat difference between us
serves the business unless it just drives you crazy, you can
speak? To either absolutely vital, it's
really become it's become so essential to run things through
both lenses. At the end of the day, we want
(17:30):
to keep on doing what we are doing.
We want to do it well and we want to continue to be able to
build. And so I think, yeah, I can get
very enthusiastic and when I seea need or, you know, even just
don't want or I feel a desire inthe ethers, I'm going to respond
with all the things that we can do.
(17:51):
But taking the time to run things through the pragmatic and
practical. I think it's allowed us to
really fine TuneIn a way that's important.
And in the scaling back and in the figuring out what it's a
season for, that's allowed us tobe much more precise and much
more even paced. And you know, I think it's also
(18:13):
allowed us to give hopefully ourcommunity the sense that we that
we're thoughtful in what we offer.
Well said, so true. One of the things I really love
about you is your generosity andalso how important things like
letting our practitioners set their own rates and you making
(18:33):
sure we offer scholarships for people who might not otherwise
available to attend our programs.
All those types of things are soimportant to you.
And that kind of generosity has been such a.
Foundational. Part of our business model, but
one of the challenges we've talked about a fair amount is
how it can be hard to set fees for you, you know, that actually
(18:57):
make the business sustainable. And this is not something you're
alone. And I see this type of struggle
a lot. And I feel like it's almost as
common as a challenge of settingboundaries.
And sometimes those two even go hand in hand.
And just because I think it's such a important topic.
(19:18):
What do you think that challengeis really about and how have you
been working on it? Yeah, well, I think I have to
1st speak to why it's important for me to be operating in the in
a different paradigm. And This is why I appreciate
being Co collaborative with you because I do feel like for what
(19:40):
we're bringing into the world, it's important to us that that
it nurture genuine community. And we do live in a society
where there are accessibility issues, There are issues with
access. There are issues that make it
really important, I feel, to make sure that the beautiful
(20:01):
experiences we are creating aren't just available to the to
the affluent and making sure that practitioners are fairly
compensated. I've been in the, you know, the
world of. Healing arts for so long and
have watched so many people become depleted and not paid
well. So that's a value for me that I
(20:22):
have really tried to put into practice.
And then yeah, you're right though, the last threshold of
that is putting the business into the equation to make sure
that our profit is also considered so that it can be
sustainable. I think it really comes down to,
and this might be a broad generalization, but I think I
think as women, if we're doing something that genuinely brings
(20:48):
us joy or something we're sort of invested in making sure
exists on the planet that there there can be like a bit of self
sacrifice in that in terms of, you know, I'll give it away
because I want to do it or I'll give it away.
I want to know that it is going to happen.
(21:10):
And then truthfully, I think a lot of us carry the wound of
women's work having been undervalued, that, you know,
just the fact that that when a woman is raising children,
managing her home, she's seen tonot be working.
It's not a paid position. Absolutely.
And do you think that there's a correlation between setting
(21:32):
boundaries and, you know, abandonment of self or?
Undervaluing skills. Do you think that those are
correlated? Yeah, I really think that they
can be. I definitely think that it's all
part of the same matrix of experience.
And I don't think that those three pieces are oftentimes
(21:56):
deeply linked and connected. And oftentimes they have to do
with the extent to which we feelsafe and secure, the extent to
which we feel valued and the extent to which we feel that we
can express ourselves and reallytrust.
(22:18):
I think at least self abandonment for one, really does
stem from the feeling of having been abandoned.
So it's that lack of security, it's that feeling of not having
your own taproot of of grounded connection and the assurance
that you are resourced that things are going to be available
(22:40):
for you. And so I think look at that one,
it can come from that, from thatplace of not feeling like there
was, there was a steady stream of love and appreciation and you
know, that you were provided for.
And then in the way you needed to be at critical junctures in
your life. I think that oftentimes the lack
(23:02):
of boundaries, you know, that's,that's something I'm sorry to be
oversimplifying for. Obviously there's so much nuance
to this that oftentimes we sacrifice our own boundaries if
we are seeking love. And so there's this like if we
go beyond meeting people halfwayor if we offer them more than
(23:24):
they were expecting, then that'smore likely to lead to feeling
appreciate it. Like for those especially who
didn't grow up feeling safe and secure and like they were being
loved back or loved in the ways that they might have needed to.
And it can be so subtle you alsosocietal messaging that we get
(23:47):
about what we need to do and howwe need to perform to be
valuable, lovable, intelligent, you know, and often times for
women, that's an it. It leads to over exertion.
There is like a there's a takingyourself out of just doing what
what the job is or doing things in a way that's good enough.
(24:09):
We push ourselves beyond becausethe world is has not been that
friendly or accommodating of thefemale psyche and intelligence.
And oftentimes we're told we're too much.
So we kind of set these false boundaries.
We please, we contort ourselves to be to be the perfect package
(24:33):
to be the part, the good girl, the person who can, you know,
show up when nobody else will. And that can lead to lack of of
boundaries. And then same thing can really
be said about setting our own pricing for things is a
reflection of that sense of selfworth.
And if at any age in life that'sbeen compromised or if at any
(24:55):
stage in life our worth hasn't been validated, then I think we
can be pretty quick to undervalue what we're bringing
to the table. To not appreciate our gifts, to
not see our value, to feel like we need to go over and above.
We need to deliver 10 times moreto be to be seen to be doing a
(25:19):
good job that was. So beautifully said, I was just
really curious as to your view on that.
I think it's really important topic so thanks for going there
with me. So pervasive and my pleasure,
it's so important. So I want to parlay into what's
your personal definition of success?
So I'm going to weave in one of the beautiful words that you've
(25:42):
chosen actually for this processfor this podcast, which is the
word alchemy and the definition of the word alchemy, which as
well as being the precursor of modern chemistry, as it says
here, the seemingly magical process of transformation,
(26:02):
creation, combination. My definition of success would
be that process as it applies tomy life personally.
So it's when I feel like I am actually in the process of
creation and transformation. And and so it's like in my life,
(26:24):
I'm able to do something that I feel has impact and I feel has
resonance, and then hope that what I'm doing is able to create
those ripples and waves of things that I want to exist more
in the world. It's really important work
hasn't been that straight up linear.
(26:45):
Path it's not at all. But in some ways it has a very
clear through line, even when you didn't know it did.
Yeah, even when I did not know what I was doing and I was
searching around, but from definitely from the moment when
you and I started working together, I felt like it's began
more and more to make to make sense and to take steps that I
(27:05):
couldn't have even anticipated. I have two more questions for
you and then we're going to go into my fun little rapid fire
fall segment that I do with the people I have on this podcast
who I know very, very well. What is the worst business slash
(27:26):
career advice anyone ever gave you and why?
OK, well I feel like I'm going to go back to college again.
Like did we already talk about? We already covered this because
she very clearly told me when I when she was asking me to think
about the things that I might like to study.
And I came into her office with my little like tender, I think I
(27:50):
might want to be an architect. And she honestly shot me down so
fast and told me I had no business thinking about that.
So I just want to say too that don't let people shoot you down
and then they will. And that I had to do so much
work to get myself to a place ofjust talking to my younger self
(28:10):
about letting her be creative and self expressed.
And I knew they did go to school.
I did. I did.
The last question is what advicewould you give your younger
self? I know that it was a very
challenging time when you first came to New York.
Yes. And it was a pretty challenging
(28:31):
period for you and your family. What would you tell her now?
My goodness, in that moment whenI was pretty, pretty well
raising myself in Manhattan, I think I would tell her that she
was going to create a family of choice.
And that she was going to be able to with the the bravery and
(28:56):
the self direction and the things that people who might
have up until that point in her life told her made her a little
too much for actually going to serve her and guide her.
And to trust herself in taking risks and know that she is not
alone. And that she's going to find
really exquisite accompaniment. And that life is going to
(29:18):
actually turn up to a beautiful adventure.
Become me all chopped up. Yes.
I think that most people have gone through a really
challenging period and I remember the first time the
therapist asked me, what would you tell your Amber self now?
I was really kind of profound. I kind of like be able to see
(29:41):
the shift and the arc and, you know, the inner wisdom that we
get from those challenges. Completely.
Completely. Well, thank you for following
that part. Thank you so much.
I'm going to this part to reallyquickly from tears to giggles.
Oh, yes, exactly. Always, always, always.
(30:01):
So just a reminder, there's a rough fighter.
Question. OK, I'll answer them right away.
True or. False.
True or false? It's.
Too hard. Excellent.
And I come on a game show. True or false, you are a double
Scorpio. I certainly am with many other
placements in Scorpio, so many that it terrified the astrologer
who first looked at my chart when I was born.
(30:23):
Yes, it's all good. I'm safe.
Although people who meet you noware usually really surprised to
hear that. Done a lot of work of refinement
not too. One of my favorite things about
you is your ability to find humor in your own humanity.
Do you agree? It is.
Humor is one of my favorite pathways to wisdom.
(30:46):
Yes. So true.
Sorry, very true. True.
You're. Obsessed with fried green
tomatoes? Never.
Just false. You were the lead senior in an
all girls band when you were in college?
Oh my. Goodness, so false and I wish it
was true. See ya, you have a little rescue
dog named Moxie who's arrived toscuffle with a coyote who is
(31:08):
supposedly A terror to all otherdogs but is one of the sweetest
pups I've ever met. So true and has lived through
rattlesnake bites and all kinds of yeah, crazy, yeah crazy.
Like that dog is like. Love Moxie.
OK, well that's that's it. Let's spend of our time.
Thank you. It's.
Been so lovely. I have loved it and I love you.
(31:32):
I appreciate what you're creating.
Thank you for sharing your story.
Thank you. Thank you.
OK, I hope you enjoyed that conversation with the lovely EVE
games. As many of you know, our retreat
land sadly was impacted by the LA fires.
(31:54):
And. We're currently in a season of
rebuilding. We knew it would be important to
keep the momentum going and stayconnected with our community
while doing. So so.
We created something really special.
It's a seasonal magazine called Field Notes.
The way for us to keep sharing the essence of ritual even while
the land is healing and we rebelled.
(32:17):
There's writing, really gorgeousphotography by Lauren Purvey,
recipes, rituals. It's such a beautiful reflection
of the spirit of the retreat, and I hope you'll check it out.
We also launched. Our atelier as a pop up in
Topanga for those of you who arelocal and for those of who you
(32:38):
who are not. We have it as an online shop on
our website. We filled it with items we've
fearfully chosen to feel like anextension of the retreat
experience. And lastly, I just want you to
say if you're in a season of building or evolving something
(32:59):
meaningful and you feel you'd benefit from support that's both
strategic and intuitive. I currently have a couple
openings inside my one-on-one private container.
It's a space for those who want to build with attention and who
are looking. For a clear structure.
Strategic partnership and grounded guidance to help shape,
(33:22):
hold and sustainably grow their vision.
I'll link everything in the shownotes in case you want to
explore more. And as always, thank you for
being here, for listening, and for being a part of this space.
If you're enjoying the podcasts,Please remember to rate, review,
share, and follow. It truly helps more than you
(33:44):
know. More soon.
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