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June 25, 2025 57 mins

Over the last two weeks, an online battle has broken out among the New Right over the Israel-Iran conflict and the Trump administration's bombing of an Iranian nuclear facility. Regardless of whether the recent ceasefire between Iran and Israel holds, the events so far have drawn clear dividing lines within the coalition. What does "America First" mean for Middle Eastern policy?

Josh Hammer, author of Israel and Civilization, and Sohrab Ahmari, U.S. editor of UnHerd, join Oren to debate the wisdom of Trump's attack, the limits of Jacksonian restrictionist foreign policy, and how to think about the U.S. relationship with Israel. The group unpacks the intricacies of what a post-hegemonic world order actually looks like in the Middle East, and how best to respond to what could come next.

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