EP169: Season 6 Opener: Creating and Recreating Our Own Creative Process

In the Season 6 opener of the podcast, Melissa and Heather jump into the deep end to talk about creating our creative process. When was the last time you questioned why you create the way you do? Have you mixed things up lately? Moved your desk? Painted outside?  Tried to find a way to make a dreaded task more fun?

Sometimes, we get into a rut, or a comfortable groove that doesn't push us forward. Or we procrastinate over parts of bigger projects because the process is... well... gross. So here's your reminder that we, as creatives, get to CREATE - or RECREATE our own creative process!

This is a great episode for creatives who...

• are feeling stuck
• need a fresh start
• have trouble finishing projects
• procrastinate over certain tasks
• feel overwhelm when they walk past their creating space

This episode is brought to you by our Premium Subscriber Community on Patreon and Buzzsprout

For a summary of this episode and all the links mentioned please visit:
Episode169: Creating and Recreating Our Own Creative Process

You can find Melissa at finelimedesigns.com, finelimeillustrations.com or on Instagram @finelimedesigns.

You can find Heather at heatherlynnetravis.com or on Instagram @heathertravis.

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For a list of all available episodes, please visit:
And She Looked Up Creative Hour Podcast

Each week The And She Looked Up Podcast sits down with inspiring Canadian women who create for a living. We talk about their creative journeys and their best business tips, as well as the creative and business mindset issues all creative entrepreneurs struggle with. This podcast is for Canadian artists, makers and creators who want to find a way to make a living doing what they love.

Your host, Melissa Hartfiel (@finelimedesigns), left a 20 year career in corporate retail and has been happily self-employed as a working creative since 2010. She's a graphic designer, writer and illustrator as well as the co-founder of a multi-six figure a year business in the digital content space. She resides just outside of Vancouver, BC.

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
This week's episode of the and she Looked Up podcast
is brought to you by ourpremium subscriber community on
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continue to bring the podcast toyou.
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(00:21):
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There you can join thecommunity for free or you can
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Paid supporters get access to amonthly exclusive podcast
episode only available topremium subscribers.

(00:42):
You can also click the supportthe show link in the episode
notes on your podcast player tosupport us via Buzzsprout, where
you will also get access toeach month's exclusive premium
supporter episode.
I can't tell you how much Iappreciate all our monthly
supporters.
They are the engine that keepsthe podcast running and they're
a pretty cool bunch too.

(01:03):
And now let's get on with theshow.
Welcome to the and she Looked Uppodcast.
Each week we sit down withinspiring Canadian women who
create for a living.

(01:24):
We talk about their creativejourneys and their best business
tips, as well as the creativeand business mindset issues all
creative entrepreneurs strugglewith.
I'm your host, melissaHartfield, and after leaving a
20-year career in corporateretail, I've been happily
self-employed for 12 years.
I'm a graphic designer, anillustrator and a
multi-six-figure-a-yearentrepreneur in the digital

(01:46):
content space.
This podcast is for the artists, the makers and the creatives
who want to find a way to make aliving doing what they love.
Hello everyone, and welcome toanother episode and a brand new
season of the and she Looked Uppodcast.

(02:08):
As always, I'm your host,melissa, and it wouldn't be a
season opener of the show if mylovely friend and semi-regular
co-host, heather Travis, wasn'there.
Hello Heather, hello Melissa,it's good to see you.
It's been a long summer break,so this is nice.
We're getting back into theswing of things.

(02:29):
Exactly, yeah.
So for all of you who arejoining us today, it is the
first episode of season six ofthe podcast and our fifth year
of the podcast, because we didtwo seasons in year one.
So, yeah, I know Five years isa long time.

(02:50):
Yeah, wow.

Speaker 2 (02:51):
Holy moly.

Speaker 1 (02:52):
So today we have a topic that I think is going to
be pretty interesting foreveryone.
It's going to be one of thoseones that kind of ranches out
across inspiration, process,creative practice, all of that,
and it came out of a podcastthat I listen to regularly

(03:14):
called the Creative Pep TalkPodcast, with Andy J Pizza.
I just love saying his name,andy, that's awesome, I know,
and as far as I know, that ishis actual, real name.
So it is a podcast that I loveto listen to whenever I'm in a
bit of a funk or a bit ofcreative block or I'm just
feeling really blah about mywork or my ability to do work.

(03:37):
We all have those moments wherewe go through these periods
where nothing is going too well.
So his show is the one that Ialways go to.
He's an illustrator.
He's also neurodiverse, so hecomes at things from a different
perspective, which I reallyappreciate.
And this is an episode he didback in July, I think, or maybe

(04:00):
June, and if I was betterprepared I would have written
the episode number down.
But I will put it in the shownotes for this episode so that
everybody can go listen to it.
But it was an episode on how tofinish large scale projects
when you know we have thosemoments where we're powering

(04:21):
through a really big project andall of a sudden you're just
tired of it, you don't want todo it anymore.
You want to move on to the nextthing.
I've heard other people call itfinishing energy, yeah.
Anyway, when I saw the title ofthis podcast, I had to tune in,
because I am super amazing atcoming up with creative ideas
and starting them yeah, notsuper amazing at finishing them.

(04:44):
Finishing- yes.
If this is you, this is a greatepisode to listen to because he
has some really good tips on howhe has been able to get through
working on some larger scaleprojects.
But one of the things he talkedabout in this episode that I
thought was worth doing anentire episode on is how, as
creatives, we have to rememberthat we get to create our

(05:08):
creative process, and thatreally struck me.
He was talking about it fromthe perspective of switching up
your process.
When you're stuck in a largeproject, sometimes you have to
switch up the process dependingon the type of task, and he
talks about creative tasks,finishing tasks, those kinds of

(05:31):
things and how sometimes youhave to switch up the way you do
things in order to keep theenergy flowing, and I thought
this was really interesting, notjust from a finishing
perspective, but I thinksometimes, when we get into a
bit of a funk or a block, orwhatever you want to call it.

(05:51):
So we don't know how to getourselves out of it, for lack of
a better term, and this episodejust gave me so many thoughts
on that as to how we could rejigour own creative processes,
like why is it we get stuck intothese creative ruts where we
think we need to do things acertain way, or we don't even

(06:13):
question the way we're doing itbecause we've just always done
it that way?
So, before we dive in too much,I do just want to say I do think
there's a place for a creativeroutine, Like I think a lot of
us need that you know you needto have your cup of tea or you
need to have your studio, needsto be in a certain state of
cleanliness or whatever you know, before you can kind of get

(06:36):
yourself into it.
So I'm not saying we shouldn'thave those creative routines at
all.
I'm just saying I thinksometimes there's a time and a
place for consciously changingit up.
So you you've did a hugeproject that kind of culminated
in your first solo show lastyear, but you were working on

(06:58):
that project for about two years, I think, right, yep.

Speaker 2 (07:02):
Yeah, it was a long time.

Speaker 1 (07:03):
It was a long time.
Yeah, I've got to imagine Idon't think we really talked
about this when we did talkabout you prepping for this show
, but I have to think there musthave been points in that
process where you were like isthis ever going to end?
Do I ever get to do somethingelse?
Oh God, yes.

Speaker 2 (07:21):
Yes, and in fact I would have ideas for other
things and I would tackle likerandom, I would feel very you
know, anybody who knows me orhas listened for a long time my
love of spray paint and spraypainting things, particularly as
a distraction from, like, thegeneral artistic creative
process.
I can distract myself with acan of spray paint very easily.

(07:42):
That's the shiny thing I chase.
And I would chase those shinythings just because literally I
was like I'm tapped out, I'mdone, I'm ready to have the show
.
I need this and I'm so gratefulthat I had a deadline that was
long before the opening date.
You know I had to have.
I had basically had a wholesummer to just make sure that

(08:04):
the stuff had hanging hardware,but everything had to be done,
it had to be done, it had to bephotographed, it had to be all
of it in May, before theexhibition opening in September.
And so thank goodness for thatdeadline.
One deadlines are very, I think, work really well for me, and
that even if it's a self-imposeddeadline.
But I was tapped out at like,quite literally near the end I

(08:26):
was like fuck, I'm done, I'mdone, I'm done, I'm done, I'm
done, and even I kind ofregretted waiting to write the
stories.
I had taken notes, but Iregretted waiting writing to, to
write all of the stories forthe picture book that I ended up
publishing.
I I regret writing to write allof the stories for the picture
book that I ended up publishing.
I regretted writing those atthe end because I and I hope

(08:50):
it's not obvious when peopleread it but even writing it I
was like I was really inspiredby this.
Okay, and I'm fucking done,send Next story.
Like I kind of tapped out.
I had envisioned long winding,much more lyrical stories when I
envisioned the project.
By the time I got to it I wasreally quite over it.
Yeah, yeah, so, uh, and I thinkthat that happens like

(09:15):
particularly for over such along period of time.
When I read about people whotake like five years to pull
something together, I'mabsolutely bamboozled by the
willingness to take such adeliberate pace and continue to
march forward, knowing how farthe finish line is.

(09:36):
That is really impressive forme.
I'm a I rush, I'm known to rush.

Speaker 1 (09:48):
I rush, I'm known to rush.
Um yeah, I think.

Speaker 2 (09:49):
I don't.
Is it the Enneagram skill thatpeople talk about?

Speaker 1 (09:50):
like I'm.
I've never done it, but I amlike 100 sure I'd be a quick
starter on that scale I thinkthat's the one where they have
the quick starter, because, yeah, I I get ideas and I'm just
like gotta do it, like like letstart it, and if I'm in the
middle of another project it'snot a good scene.

Speaker 2 (10:08):
No, and I, quite literally, there will be things
that like, there's a bunch, ifwe're recording this on video
right now, there's a bunchbehind me, they have their backs
turned to me, they're in thecorner thinking about their
actions right now and I mightnever come back to them.

(10:32):
Uh, they're just.
I'm over them.
I tapped out, uh, I couldn'tfigure it out.
It wasn't looking the way Iwanted it to look and I just I
think some people would plowthrough and continue to make it
better.
I, maybe I give up too easily.
I don't know, I don't know.
Yeah, like to me, I, I don'tknow.
Like, if it's meant to be, it'smeant to be, and if I can't
express it the way I want toexpress it, then maybe it's just
not meant to be expressed by me.

(10:52):
Like sort of the way I, I feelabout it.
Do you know what I mean?
Like, and it's not saying it, Idon't have the talent or the
skill, it's just if I, if theexpression doesn't feel right
and I'm kind of I don't force it.

Speaker 1 (11:07):
I think sometimes for me it is the skill and this was
actually one of the things hementioned in this episode was he
talked about sharpening yourpencils, like where sometimes
doing the preparation is whatmakes the finishing easier.
Yes, preparation is what makesthe finishing easier, you know.
He said sometimes he needs to.

(11:28):
One of the examples he gave hewas working on a large picture
book and he realized that whathe really hated about the
process was the amount of timehe had to spend in front of the
computer cleaning up his artworkfor a book.
And so he started thinking likewhat can I do to make that

(11:49):
process so that I'm spendingless time on the computer and
more time doing the actual handdrawing piece, which is what he
loved to do?
And so he started looking onYouTube for ways that he could
get a cleaner scan or tighten uphis paper, stretch his paper so

(12:09):
that he could get again acleaner scan, things like that.
And that was you know.
So sometimes I think it is abit of a skill thing.
I know for me there'sdefinitely been times where I'm
like I'm just not, I'm not goodenough to do this.
Like my skill level is not goodenough to do this, and I think

(12:36):
I'm not being very articulatewith this, but I think sometimes
, if you're somebody who certainthings come very easily to you,
like, there are certain thingsthat I can do that come
extremely easily to me.
I've never had to really workat them, I've never had to study
, I've never really had to learn.
When you come up againstsomething that is not easy for
you, you don't have the patiencebecause you're not used to

(12:59):
having the patience to learn itor practice it or do what you
need to do to bring your skilllevel up.

Speaker 2 (13:05):
And so sometimes that is 100% me, yeah, and so
there's just times where I'mlike I'm not good enough to do
this.

Speaker 1 (13:13):
I don't feel like sitting down and doing this for
30 hours to figure out how toget better at it or whatever.
So I just whatever, I leave itand I move on to the next thing.
It's easy for me and it's notalways a good way to grow as an
artist, as a person or whateverit is that you do, and so I've

(13:33):
kind of had to learn how toembrace the difficulty or the
uncomfortableness that comeswith getting better at something
.
Yes, yeah, so I think that'sdefinitely so.

Speaker 2 (13:50):
It's really, it's actually really funny that cause
you and I were just talking, Iwant to say off air, off air
before we started, about themural project that I'm going to
be doing this week and, for me,one of the beauties of client
projects and taking commissions,while I fully, I fully know
that people approach me for mystyle and when it's outside my

(14:12):
comfort zone, sometimes I wonderbut but this one totally not my
color palette, it's my design,it totally looks like a Heather,
so to speak.
You can see me in it.
At the same time, it's ahundred percent client driven,
which you know any design shouldbe.

Speaker 1 (14:30):
It's a branding piece .
What you're doing it's a.
It's a.
Exactly it's a branding pieceand limited on.

Speaker 2 (14:35):
Exactly, and the element of the installation
requires me to go really outsidemy comfort zone.
I can't.
There's no winging it, there isvery much.
It has to be like it's amandala.
It has to be precise, theelements have to be level, they
have to be symmetrical.
Things have to line up, andthat does not come natural for

(14:57):
me, like lining things up in aroom, decorating, having things
symmetrical, that's sort of easyenough, that comes naturally
for me.
But mathematical precision issomething that I really struggle
with, and so I am like teachingmyself and setting up as many
strategies as I can so that itisn't a painstaking process for

(15:21):
me to actually deliver theproject, so that it actually
isn't the painting on the wall.

Speaker 1 (15:27):
Hopefully, is very fun, because I have set up
enough things to help me get tothe finish line with as little
frustration as possible yes, andthat was one of the big things
he talked about is how to makethese processes that we don't
necessarily find interesting,enjoyable, comfortable, how to

(15:50):
make them more enjoyable.
Yeah, process like why do weallow ourselves to get stuck in
these ruts or of doing thingsthe same way when really is
completely within our control,to totally to rip it apart and

(16:14):
create something better?
Yeah, um, yes, one of theexamples he gives is of another
illustrator that he knows of.
And so when you, when, whenyou're an illustrator, the
enjoyable part of the project isdrawing like you, like to draw.
You like to draw, I you know I,for me it is.
I like to draw the thing andthen one of the finishing tasks

(16:37):
is coloring the drawing.
So whether you're doing thatwith paints or markers or pencil
, crayons or whatever, for somepeople that is very creative.
I actually do enjoy it as acreative piece.
There's something verymeditative about it for me.
But it is a very differentprocess from the actual drawing
and for this artist, she paints,she paints in her illustrations

(16:58):
.
So what she does is she takesall the surfaces in her studio,
so all the tables and things,and she puts them into a giant
U-shape in the middle of herstudio and then she lays out all
the artwork on the studio.
If you're watching this onYouTube, I'm using my arms a lot
to kind of explain this.

(17:19):
But she lines up all herpaintings and then she goes and
she paints them all in one fellswoop.
It's like an assembly line.
So if she's doing withwatercolor, obviously with
watercolor you got to wait forthings to dry.
So she starts at one end, worksher way around to the other end
of the?
U in a way that makes it moreefficient for her, more fun for

(17:48):
her, more like she feels, likeshe's seeing the progress, which
I think that didn't even occurto me.
But when you lay out all thework like that, you get to see
the progress as it's happening,which I think can be very
motivating.
Yeah, I hadn't even thought ofthat.

Speaker 2 (18:08):
Yes, yeah, and that's why, for me, murals if they
don't move quickly.
So if I don't have, you know,when you're painting a 20 foot
wall, when you walk in at seveno'clock in the morning and get
your bucket down and go okay,and you set things up and start
putting the design down, if bylunchtime there isn't, for me at
least, a first very clear coatof everything, and it's like

(18:30):
taking shape, like what am Idoing here?
This is like this is taking toolong.
And so to set things up sowhether it's a projector, having
images, all the differentthings, having measurements,
stencils, pre-made, like I canspend five days prepping so that

(18:51):
I save two hours the day of Idon't know, and to me that's an
efficient use of my time, likemaking those stencils, doing all
of those things so that it isas pain-free to do that
installation, so that it is aspain-free to do that
installation.
It's like just thinking through.
You know, it's like camping andlike thinking through.
Do I have a thing to stir thiswith?

(19:11):
No, I'm going to have to find astick at the campsite.
Well, why don't I bring a stick?

Speaker 1 (19:17):
You know, like I don't know, I think that's one
of the reasons I've alwayssteered clear of watercolors
because I don't have thepatience for things to dry.
What watercolors?
Because I don't have thepatience for things to dry.

Speaker 2 (19:26):
I got to wait for this to dry before I like the
thing in my head I need to getit out Right.
Yes, that's why I have a blowdryer Two of them, in fact.
I pull them out all the time.
Dry faster, go.

Speaker 1 (19:36):
But you know when, when she's doing her work and
she's got them all laid out andit's drying as she's continuing
on, like she's able to see thewhole process, the process is
happening in front of her,whereas if, if you're just doing
one piece, you, you know, youget up, you go do something else
while you wait for it to dryand maybe when you come back
you're not that excited about it, or you're not feeling it or

(19:59):
Like it's exciting when you make40 jars of pickles, but one jar
at a time just seems verytedious.

Speaker 2 (20:06):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, which is interesting
because so it's not like she'sdoing 40 of the same thing all
at the same time, right?

Speaker 1 (20:14):
Like it's a picture book.
No, no, they're all.
It's a picture book, so everypicture is different.

Speaker 2 (20:17):
Yes, yeah, as opposed to, like, assembly line
creation, so making 40 of thesame painting and doing
mountains, mountains, mountains,mountains.
You know, now that's a wholedifferent type and that's where.

Speaker 1 (20:30):
I'm going is that.

Speaker 2 (20:31):
That's a very different, that's a very
different thing.

Speaker 1 (20:34):
Yes, yes, but the other thing that I thought was
interesting about that is thisis she's literally rearranging
her studio furniture.
She's literally rearranging herstudio furniture in a pretty
big way for this, and I thinkthat's something most of us
never consider doing We'vearranged our studio the way that

(20:55):
it is and that's how we work.
Yes, and the thought of moving.

Speaker 2 (21:04):
I've rearranged my studio a few times, but even
still like in the same cornerregardless.

Speaker 1 (21:09):
Yeah, and it's usually a very conscious
decision, like I'm sick of this,I'm going to move things around
.
You're not necessarily movingthings around for a specific
task.
No, like, a couple of weeks agoI was cleaning my windows and
my big table that I work at isright in front of the windows
and it's a very deep table so Ican't just reach across and
clean the windows.
I have to move the table.

(21:30):
So I was moving the table,trying to get it out so I could
get in front of the windows.
I like this is a lot of work,it's just so I can clean the
window, but I wanted a cleanwindow so I could have better
light, obviously, um, so yeah,the thought, the idea of
actually moving this tablearound so that I could, I could

(21:50):
work on a different aspect of aproject never, ever occurred to
me that I could do that.
Like how?

Speaker 2 (21:56):
yes, you know but that to me like what a beautiful
creative solution.
And you use the tools at yourdisposal and this and your tools
are your space, the work thatyou're working on, the all, like
all of the things.
I think that that's quite,that's quite brilliant.
And, interestingly, I tend toyou know this is really you and

(22:19):
I.
Whenever we talk, I kind offeel like it's very
serendipitous.
In the episodes that we'retalking about, I'm like I needed
this in my life.
It's like a tarot card that waspulled and I'm like dang, this
is what I needed today, becauseI have been we talked about it,
I think, the last time we talkedfor the podcast.
I've been experimenting a lot,but now I've come into a
creative rut where I'm like whatdo I do next?

(22:39):
And it's one of the things thatI try and do is limit myself,
like so, give myself constraints, I'm only going to use X color,
I'm only going to use X medium,I'm going to give myself a time
constraint, I'm only going touse my non-dominant hand.
And so I tend to narrow myscope.

(23:00):
But I think finding a creativesolution is actually completely
widening your scope and thinkingway beyond.
What do I normally do?
It's interesting, like to me,and now I'm thinking to myself
hmm, regularly I constrainmyself and maybe, breaking from
the habit of trying to break thehabit with constraining myself,

(23:23):
I should just let it all hangout.

Speaker 1 (23:29):
Let it all hang out.

Speaker 2 (23:30):
Yeah, no, yeah, it's like I'm having an existential
moment right now.
It is.

Speaker 1 (23:39):
Well, it's funny.
I have my list of notes hereand number three on the list is
question yourself, yeah.
So yeah, you're questioningyourself now, like I am, I do
the same thing.
I find I'm much more creativewhen there's restraints put on
me.
And we've talked about this.
You know like the worst thing aclient can say to you is do

(24:01):
whatever you want and you'relike yes, no, no, no, no.

Speaker 2 (24:04):
I have a client like that right now and I'm like, oh
my gosh, do you know?
Literally no color preference,and I'm like we can't even
narrow it down.
It's the possibility, unlessit's driving me bonkers.

Speaker 1 (24:17):
Yeah, it's, it's.
It's pretty rare that you justhave a flash of brilliance where
you're like I know it would bethe perfect thing for you, like,
and you just do it.
And even I think, even when aclient says that you can do
whatever you want, there'salways that lingering feeling in
the back of your head that if Ido whatever I want, will you
actually like it when it's doneLike?

Speaker 2 (24:39):
you know, there's that or, and so it's interesting
.
There's people who do whateveryou want, yes, but they don't
really, but they actually sothat and there's like, and
literally you're like, no, no,no, no.
I know the in-between lines arewe're sticking to these colors,
we're sticking to this, youknow, whatever.
But I, quite literally, I dohave a client who's it's logo
design and it is full on carteblanche.

Speaker 1 (25:00):
Yeah, yeah.
I think one of the first placeswe can look to this and we've
kind of been talking about it alittle bit here is to look at
your space with fresh eyes,which I think is something a lot
of us don't do.
We set up our studio or ourworkspace or wherever it is
we're going to be doing the bulkof the work and we don't ever
really think to question space,the layout of that space or the

(25:24):
functionality of that spaceagain, until just one day we're
sick of it and we just decide wewant to change, but we don't.
We don't think about doingcontinuous tweaks or continue it
or or big reshuffles like thatone artist.
Um and it's funny, I I I wasthinking about this the other
day as I was kind of preppingfor this.

(25:46):
I remember this one time mystudio was in a different layout
than it is today and mybusiness partner came over to
help me.
We were doing, I think we wereputting together.
We were doing something that wehad to physically put together.
It might have been swag bags orsomething.
So there was a lot of physicalmovement and we were doing stuff
with our hands.
And he had never been in mystudio before and he came in and

(26:09):
he just sort of surveyed theroom and he's like where are you
sitting?
And I just pointed to my deskthat I normally work at and he's
like, okay, and then he justkind of looked around, plopped
himself down in a spot I wouldnever have plopped myself down
to work, and just we juststarted working and he was
totally content.
And it was like when he walkedinto the room he saw it in a

(26:32):
completely different way than Idid, totally, because he had
never seen it before.
So his brain was just kind oflike, you know, calculating
where's the best place for me tosit.
And that's where he sat andjust kind of bumped himself down
, and I think it's like thatFebreze commercial where you go
nose blind to your house.
We, our senses, get dulled whenwe do the same thing over and

(26:55):
over again.
We see our, we don't see ourstudio.
We don't smell the smellspeople smell when they come into
our studio.
We don't hear, like you know,there could be a background
noise that we don't hear becausewe hear it every day.
So we stopped registering itand I think sometimes we need to
kind of force ourselves to lookat things with fresh eyes or

(27:16):
question why, totally Like whyis this table here, I don't know
?
Like that's just where it'salways been.
So one easy way to do this Goahead, yes.

Speaker 2 (27:27):
No, no, no, no.
I was going to say, and that'sinviting, I think so to your
point about having somebody in,and that I think, as artists and
creatives, we generally it's soin our own, and that's asking
somebody to come into your space, asking, just saying, hey, I'm
thinking of like I need to dothis.
How do I?
And literally, as you weretalking, I was thinking and it

(27:50):
came up quite literallyyesterday at lunch with a
girlfriend.
She introduced me to anotherfriend, as this is the person
who, when I got divorced, helpedme rearrange the house and love
my house again, and it wasliterally got the house and the
furniture You're not going todivorce is expensive, you're not
going to buy all new things,right.
And so how do I make this spacefeel like my own?

(28:11):
And not the space that was just,you know, the space that I made
the exhibition, or the spacethat I shared with this person
and just invited me in and wethrew spaghetti at the wall and
rearranged the whole space andwe had so much fun doing it.
It was a great time and thespace is now more functional and
so it's just inviting somebodyin and the willingness, I think,

(28:34):
the willingness.
So the willingness to invitesomebody in and then the
willingness to experiment,because quite literally, you
could rearrange the whole roomand say you know what?
It doesn't work.
We have to.
The desk only works in thisspot.
It doesn't work to have all mytables in the center of the room
.
I don't have the room like.
It just doesn't work.
And that's, I think I think,the willingness to explore, that

(28:54):
is even that.

Speaker 1 (28:57):
I think that's a healthy part of the creative,
creative process no, I totallyagree, I I think, yeah, I think
it is and I think it can be.
It can be hard to kind of seethings with fresh eyes, like,
like you said, when we walk intothe same space every day or we
head to the same part of thehouse every day or wherever it
is that you work of us, ourstudios or our studio space is

(29:24):
kind of sacrosanct.
It's like, yes, my space, yes,right.
Yes, it's where I go to thatSeinfeld episode is where I go.

Speaker 2 (29:39):
Yes, yes, all of my toys.
Yes, it's my home, elaine, it'smy home.
Oh, honestly, I mean, you know,we know that Brian has a little
tiny square of this and when helike, literally when he veers
an inch out of that space, I'mlike what are you doing?

Speaker 1 (29:49):
Yeah, what are you doing?
Don't do that.

Speaker 2 (29:51):
You're out of your allocated zone.

Speaker 1 (29:54):
But I think having somebody come into the space,
just you know, like hey, this ismy studio, or what do you think
, or something like that, canhelp.
I think also a great time tomaybe do.

Speaker 2 (30:12):
This is if you go on vacation.

Speaker 1 (30:13):
When you come back and you go into your studio for
that first time, instead of justrushing in to get back to work,
walk in with fresh eyes andlike, look at the space and be
like, huh, I never noticed thatlight doesn't really sit where I
need it to sit.
Or why is this huge stack ofboxes here, like it's been there
for eons?
Why is it there?
Like, how can I get rid of her,how can I move it?

(30:37):
Or you know things like that,and so I think we're you know
we're at the beginning ofSeptember here.
So for those of you who'vemaybe been away, now's a good
time to maybe have that moment,I think, also doing a deep clean
.

Speaker 2 (30:52):
Yes, I just did it.
It's so gratifying, like aclean slate.
Yes.

Speaker 1 (30:58):
And it is where you start to question why you do
things.
Because you're clean, you knowyou got to clean it and you're
like why is this here?

Speaker 2 (31:04):
It just collects dust Like what am I doing?

Speaker 1 (31:06):
I think, and this is a great time to do a deep clean,
because you know there'ssomething about for me September
and back to school.
Even though I haven't been toschool in a very long time, it's
still a new start, I guess.
To me it's more of a new yearthan the new year.
So what better time to embracethat than to do a deep clean of

(31:33):
your workstation or yourworkspace or wherever it is that
you hang out when you'reworking, and it's also great to
do as we're getting ready toprep for the holidays, right, so
it's nice to just.
You know you're going to bereally busy and you know that,
as you're getting ready to domarkets and and get stuff out
there and shipping stuff, you'renot going to do markets and and
get stuff out there andshipping stuff.
You're not going to have timeto clean every day.

Speaker 2 (31:50):
So do a deep clean.

Speaker 1 (31:51):
Now get things organized and then you can carry
on and um and, and.
If you're going to do the deepclean, that's the time to sit
there and question like yeah,totally, and that's also.

Speaker 2 (32:02):
I mean I just did a deep clean.
I found so many.
I mean, honestly, I'm a littlebamboozled, I forgot about them.
But I I mean maybe it's becauseI have a hoarding problem and a
thrifting problem, but that'snot for today's discussion, you
know I think part of where ahoarding thing comes from is
just not being able to see likeyou just become acclimatized to

(32:24):
the piles of stuff and so, quiteliterally, I had a pile of
empty frames.
I also then found a bunch ofprints that I forgot that I had
made and so I framed.
They're all hanging over there.
I have a boatload of framedprints now and I'm going to be
moving forward with having a bigsale, another studio sale, and
so even that process of findingthings, making action for them,

(32:47):
putting it out there, goingforward Even that, even though
I'm not making something new,I'm removing hurdles in that
process.
Having stuff that hasn't soldand making a plan to get it out
the door to me is removingobstacles to start more new.

Speaker 1 (33:08):
Yeah, I mean, we all know how we feel after we do a
deep clean.
It's just like, ah, your brainor maybe not everyone feels like
this, but my brain just feelslike it can do stuff now, like
because it's not processing thismess in the background,
processing this mess in thebackground, right Like.
It's like that part that's offmy plate now we can focus on

(33:37):
something else.
So I do.
Yeah, a deep clean is a greatway to.
And also, what happens when youdo a deep clean we've talked
about this on other episodes isyou tend to find stuff that you
forgot you had in terms ofsupplies and materials, and very
often you'll come up with like,hey, I could use this for.
Or you ask yourself what youcould use this for.
And some of my best ideas havecome out of doing a deep clean

(33:57):
and coming across something Iforgot I have or that was left
over from a project, and beinglike you know, you go through
the process of like, do I needthis?
Should I get rid of it?
Should I sell it?
And then you're like what couldI do with it?
And then you kind of your brainstarts going well, you could do
this and this.
And yeah, so I think that'sanother benefit of doing a deep
workspace cleanup.

Speaker 2 (34:18):
So absolutely, and for me too, that deep clean like
I enjoyed I shared that onInstagram and for me, a big one
in terms of the creative processand I touched on it at the
beginning of the episode was atis deadlines.
But in addition to deadlines isis public accountability.

(34:39):
So if I have a deadline that'sjust mine and my own and nobody
else knows about it, I can moveit because it it really a
deadline.

Speaker 1 (34:47):
Is it really a?

Speaker 2 (34:47):
deadline.
If it just exists in my brain,that's right.
But if I am accountable toInstagram people, to people I
send an email newsletter to, ifI am accountable to even just a
peer group so not a public, notyour Instagram, not your fans
maybe it quite literally is justthat person.

(35:08):
It could be your mom, it couldbe your BFF, like who's that
person that checks in with youand says, hey, how's that big
project you're working on going?
Didn't you say you wanted tohave that done by the end of
June?
You know that person in yourlife.
I think that one for me is a isa big one, and that's part of
that.
Inviting people in, so bringingpeople into the studio saying

(35:29):
how's this working, or evenpitching a concept.
Like I've been creating a lotof experimental stuff and I've
had some really interestingconversations with people just
saying, like floating this.
Hey, I've been experimentingwith this, would you do?
You think there's anopportunity for that, do you
think?
And having those conversations,particularly with people who

(35:54):
aren't fellow creatives, so justa random person, has been
really valuable for me.
And I think open, just openingyourself up to, because
sometimes people say, oh, that'sa shit idea, and honestly in my
brain I'm like well, okay, Istill think it's a good idea.
And so it doesn't like and soyou want other people's opinions
just to think about, but notbecause it's going to.
If you think it's a good ideaand somebody says it's a bad

(36:17):
idea, if you still think it's agood idea, you should do it.

Speaker 1 (36:20):
You can still do it.
Yeah, absolutely you can stilldo it, but you just brought up a
good point.
This was way further down on mylist, but it was on my list,
okay.
This is so funny becauseHeather and I don't really chat
too much about what we're goingto talk about in an episode.
We kind of both bring our ideasand then it's always interesting
to see how closely aligned whatwe come up with and the other

(36:42):
interesting thing is Heather didnot listen to the episode that
gave me this idea, and yet somuch of what you're saying is
stuff that he brought up in theepisode, like it's so
interesting it's been that's toofunny.
It is Um, but yeah, one of thethings on my list was to create
or to have some kind of supportnetwork or something that you

(37:04):
can um invite in.
So I have.
I'm part of a mastermind group.
We meet once a month, so thatgroup of ladies is really
helpful from an accountabilitystandpoint.
Talk about what we need to bedoing or what projects we want

(37:26):
to work on, and you know, if youmention something more than two
or three meetings, our meetingsare monthly in a row and you
haven't pushed forward on it,somebody's going to call you out
on it.
Yep, and that's super helpful.
And then a smaller group of usfrom that group also co-work via

(37:47):
Zoom three days a week in themorning, and that has been
really, really helpful for me,keeping me accountable for my
internal deadlines, becausewe're on Zoom, they get to look

(38:09):
at my studio every day and I getto look at their spaces every
day.
So there is kind of that littlebit of an incentive to make
sure that it's not a god awfulmess in here, because I'm
sharing that space with somebodyelse that I'm working with, but

(38:39):
just being able to talk tothose people and there is
something for me, even thoughwe're not in the same room,
they're just on a screen,knowing that I mean I could go
look on Facebook for an hour andthey wouldn't know because
we're not in.
To get done Like this is my wayof keeping myself accountable
and it's been.
It has been a game changer forme.
Coworking has been a completegame changer for me.

(39:01):
And, yeah, all the women inthis group, we are all
self-employed, small businesses.
We are all within a certainniche but we all do very
different things in that niche,right?
So very different businesses,which is also nice, because just
being able to bounce ideas offof somebody who understands

(39:26):
where you're at because you'reall in the same niche, but who
does a very different thing fromyou, so their process is very
different from yours Having thembe able to look at what you're
doing and saying, well, maybeyou could try doing what I do
and sort of extrapolating thatfor what you do.
And that can be really, becauseI think very often we get into

(39:50):
like you're a graphic designer,you talk to other graphic
designers and by you're agraphic designer I mean I'm a
graphic designer, not Heatherworld with your graphic design
blinders on and you don't seeoutside of that and to have

(40:11):
somebody who's in a different uh, who does something completely
different, to come in and say,well, why don't you just do this
?
And for you, totally oh, oh, butthat's not what all the other
graphic designers do.
And then you realize how sillythat see it all the time.
Most of my clients that I workwith are content creators and

(40:32):
because I used to be a contentcreator, I recognize their
blinders almost immediately.
But it's so interesting to seehow completely narrow they can
get into this, like, yeah, verynarrow set, what's the word I'm
looking for?
But just field of view.
Their field of vision is verynarrow because we get into this

(40:55):
habit of doing things a certainway, because it's easy and we
know that the results are goingto be consistent and very often
for a lot of the things we do.
We do want consistent results.
Like there's certain thingswhen you, when you're doing your
marketing tasks, there's acertain result you want.

(41:15):
Right, and if you know thisworks, you just keep doing it,
Even though if you tweaked it abit or did something different,
you could get much betterresults.
But it requires your brainswitching and trying something
different.
And what if it doesn't work?
Like then?
I just wasted all that timewhen I could have done the same
thing that I always do.
That I know will work fairlywell, right and I think I know.

(41:39):
I think we all fall into thattrap oh, big time.
Yes, I do all the time, all thetime.

Speaker 2 (41:45):
All the time, all the time.
And that's I.
You know I am my own, you knowwe are all our own biggest
critic, I think.
And so particularly when I trysomething and it fails so you
know we talked about at thebeginning of the episode in
terms of, like, some of that hasto do with skill level.
Sometimes it's just lack ofpatience.
Sometimes I give myself tootight of a time constraint, so

(42:06):
I'm trying to get something donein half a day that really
Heather, like this is a full dayproject, like who are you
kidding yourself that this is ahalf day project?
And so sometimes and again,it's removing the obstacles, and
so sometimes my ownexpectations are my obstacle.

(42:32):
I guess it's not.
It's not a reality check, itreally isn't, but it's literally
just being like I guess it is areality check, but it's it's.
It's more just being settingyour own expectations and just
thinking things through in likea really practical manner.
I think sometimes that's myproblem is that the creative
process is so exciting and soenergizing that you look to the

(42:52):
finish line as opposed to justthinking things through in like
a very structured way, yeah, andand because thinking in a
structured way is not having funand just throwing paint on the
wall when you have to allocateevery ounce of paint and the
wall space and the time thatyou're at the wall space and you
know, yeah, yeah, sometimes theboring things they overwhelm,

(43:16):
they overwhelm, they overwhelm.

Speaker 1 (43:17):
Yes, and I think those are like the finishing
tasks.

Speaker 2 (43:21):
They're not fun.
No.

Speaker 1 (43:24):
And it's funny because I'm just finishing up a
mammoth five book design project.
Ooh fine, and 98% of it is done.
98% of it is done, and thestuff that's not done is these
niggly little tasks that havenothing to do with designing or

(43:44):
creating.

Speaker 2 (43:44):
They're just niggly little tasks.
It's like filing your taxes.
You just gotta do it.

Speaker 1 (43:47):
Yeah, it's just putting in some little bits of
text that are missing and just afew just odds.
It ends and it's like it'staking me forever to do them
right because they're notinteresting, and I am so done
with this project.
It's it's been a huge project.
I'm done with it.
I want to move on.
Um, I loved the project.
It was super fun and I got todo some really cool design stuff

(44:09):
in it.
But that part of the project isdone now and I don't really
want to copy and paste some text.
Do you know what I mean?

Speaker 2 (44:19):
Yep, and so it's interesting, my exhibition, like
in terms of I was tapped out ofthe creative process long
before we even mounted theexhibition.
When the exhibition was going,I was so excited to talk about
the artwork.
Even when the exhibitionfinished, I had open houses, I
welcomed people in.
I was delighted to talk aboutthe artwork.
Even when the exhibitionfinished, I had open houses, I
welcomed people in.
I was delighted to talk aboutthe artwork.

(44:40):
Now the stuff that hasn't soldis leaning in a pile against the
side of my studio and thethought of marketing it and
talking about it again and again, and again until it sells.
I am tapped out, tapped out,and so I'm actually at the
process of figuring out whatpieces mean enough to me to not

(45:00):
paint over and what pieces am Ijust going to paint over because
I am so done with it that thisis now time for new and it
hasn't sold.
And that doesn't mean that theartwork isn't valid, doesn't
mean that doesn't mean thatthere wasn't an audience.
It just means, in the timelinethat I had, which is probably
rushed, uh, I'm over it andthat's.

Speaker 1 (45:20):
It's sort of like yeah, yeah, yeah, um, and this
is where one of the things I hadon my list was, you know,
getting help for some of thosemonotonous tasks, like I just
got a new bookkeeper.
She deals with all that stuffthat I is not creative, like

(45:43):
come on, it's just not.

Speaker 2 (45:46):
If it is creative bookkeeping that we might have
some problems with the CRA alittle bit later.

Speaker 1 (45:52):
It's not creative, I don't like doing it.
I put it off because I don'tlike doing it, so then it turns
into this mammoth task that Ihave to tackle at tax time
because I put it off and then,um, so now she does it.
I just brought my old assistantover from food bloggers of
canada.
She's just starting to help meout with the podcast and doing

(46:14):
some of the social mediamarketing for it, because I
don't particularly enjoy thataspect of it and and so you know
she's helping me with that.
And so to if and we're notalways in the position to bring
somebody on to help- us but youknow, like Valentina, she's just
doing four to five hours amonth.

(46:35):
For me, it's not.
You know, just doing four tofive hours a month, for me, it's
not.

Speaker 2 (46:37):
Yep, you know um, but that four to five hours is
making is removing a hugeobstacle from you and allowing
you to actually do the otherthings it's not the four to five
hours, it's the mental spaceshe's taking.

Speaker 1 (46:48):
Oh, she's giving me back in my brain yeah, um, and
for for you know what?
What I'm paying her, that isworth it to me, same with my
bookkeeper, itkeeper.
It is so worth it to not havethat in my brain.
And I think this is something,too, that we often is I can't
afford somebody full time, or Ican't afford to pay somebody 30

(47:17):
hours a month.
You don't need to pay somebody30 hours a month.
You can pay them for a coupleof hours a month, or an hour a
week or whatever it's like.
Maybe having somebody come in toclean your house for every two
weeks, that's a couple of hoursa week, a couple of hours per

(47:39):
session, and it just makes it sowhen you leave your studio
space, you can reintegrate backinto your daily life without
worrying about all this otherstuff, and you can get creative
with what you get people to helpyou with.
It doesn't have to be a cleaner, it doesn't have to be a
bookkeeper.
Maybe it's somebody who comesin for an hour a day to hang out

(48:02):
with your kids, or yeah, Idon't know.
Think about where thechallenges are with your time
and see if you could bringsomebody in to help you.

Speaker 2 (48:15):
And I would say too and this is again, this is just
speaking from complete personalexperience I have started
integrating new practices intomy I can't believe I'm going to
use this word self-care routine,but I have been experimenting
with different things likemeditation and light therapy and

(48:36):
a bunch of other things, andinviting new, and so thinking
outside of the box, thinkingoutside of the heather comfort
zone, allowing myself to expandmy brain in other areas, has
allowed me to like I've had lotsof creative ideas as a result
of the things that I've beendoing, and if I hadn't done

(48:56):
those things, would I have hadthose creative ideas?
Probably not.
And so it doesn't necessarilyhave to be within the creative
process or even withinboundaries of your studio.
Reorganizing your studio,reorganizing your supplies,
trying new things, constraints,opening yourself up.
Perhaps it's opening yourselfup in other ways, like
participating in a new community, joining a mastermind group,

(49:20):
hiring somebody or trying a newform of exercise therapy.
I don't know.
Maybe you enjoy going toStarbucks and you never do it,
but it's a treat.
And maybe you say to yourselfyou know what?
I'm going to go to Starbucksonce a week for the next month
as a really lovely treat, andI'm going to enjoy the decadence

(49:40):
of sitting there and see whatthat hour in that space does to
me.
Maybe that, maybe that's theway you let loose.

Speaker 1 (49:48):
Yeah, I had two variations of that on my list.
One was one was differentspaces for different things and
I think I wouldn't beparticularly busy.

(50:19):
So I would avoid things likeafter school or really early in
the morning or those kinds ofthings.
But those times where it's notas busy and I would do stuff
like answer emails or if Ineeded to write content, I would
write content during that timebecause there was just something
about removing myself to adifferent space, kitty Corner to

(50:43):
.
That is our local library, andso I would often go work in the
library too.
There was just something aboutmoving to a different, very
different space.
The library was a verydifferent space from the coffee
shop, but there was a differentambience around you, like in the
coffee shop.
It's very different space.
The library was a verydifferent space from the coffee
shop, but there was a differentambience around you, like in the
.
In a coffee shop it's bustling,there's people, there's music,
people are laughing, talking, um, and that can trigger certain

(51:05):
kinds of energy to help you docertain kinds of work.
And then going to the library,very, very different it's quiet,
it's peaceful, there's still alot of people around, but it's
just got a different vibe to it,and that is very helpful for me
with other types of tasks.
Sometimes it might just begetting up and moving to a

(51:28):
different part of your house,like go work at the dining room
table instead of in your officeor your or um.
And that got me thinking, likeif you were somebody who, let's
say, um, I have a friend whomakes jewelry and she does a lot
of it on the couch because thenshe can watch tv, but she's on

(51:50):
her couch.
It's not super comfy.
So maybe, if that's you, whatabout setting up a space in your
actual work area and, insteadof the TV, maybe you set up your
tablet so that you can watchNetflix while you're working,

(52:10):
but you're in a better space foryour ergonomically, all your
tools are around you, you don'thave to worry about spilling
your bits and pieces on thecouch and then having to go
through the couch cushionstrying to find them all.
So what could you implement inyour space that would make it a
more welcoming place to work oncertain tasks?

(52:33):
And maybe it is something assimple as setting up an iPad so
that you can watch TV showsinstead of having to be in front
of the television.
Or do you have a good soundsystem in your workspace, Like
if you're a person?

Speaker 2 (52:45):
who uses it?

Speaker 1 (52:46):
right.
I know one person who gotherself a really, really good
pair of Bluetooth headphones notthe earbuds but like the big,
you know headphones Bluetooth,so that she could blast her
music while she's printing herstickers.
And she has multiple Cricutmachines, so she's printing a

(53:07):
lot of stickers and so she cankind of dance around her studio
while the sheets are printing.
She's pulling them off.
She's kind of, you know, she'sdoing her thing and she's got
her music going and it makes itso that she can, you know, she's
enjoying herself so much more.
I actually just had thisconversation with my mom
yesterday.
She was, we had been for a hikeand she was going home and she

(53:29):
said she was going through allher slides.
My mom, photography is herhobby.
She's been doing this since wewere little kids.
She has buckets and buckets ofslides and she's been going
through them all and getting ridof all the ones she doesn't
want and she's like it's verytedious.
And I said why don't you justturn some music on, because my
mom loves music?
And she's like oh, I don't havea music player anymore.

(53:52):
I was like you don't.
And she said no, and I'm likeyou need to get one.
She's like I know, but that'snot going to help me today.
And then I was like why don'tyou just turn your TV on to one
of the music channels?
And she's like oh, I never eventhought of that.
So you know like.
And so she's going to go home,she's going to turn on one of
the music channels.
It's going to completely alterher mood and she's going to get

(54:16):
into what she's doing and she'llcarry on.
So, like, something so simpleis just thinking of like oh yeah
, the TV has music channels.

Speaker 2 (54:24):
And what makes you happy.
So, quite literally, like thespeaker system we have in here
came from a Legion, so it's likea massive like this should fill
like a wedding dance hall.
Apologies to my neighbors andanyway, but when we got them, I
quite literally rearranged thestudio A for placement so where
I, in working, get the soundthat I want straight at me and B

(54:49):
how can I use them as part ofthe space.
And so, quite literally, likethere's workspace that's
hovering just about, like Iintegrated them into the design
of the studio because they'rethat essential for my creative
process.

Speaker 1 (55:00):
I asked my accountant if I could deduct Spotify as an
expense, because I always havemusic going in here or I am
watching.
If I'm designing, I like tohave like, I like to have like a
show on netflix or whateverthat I know really well that I
don't have to watch yeah, likedownton abbey yes, downton abbey
is a good one um, big bangtheory, stuff like that, uh.

(55:24):
And she's like, yeah, if you'reusing it to listen to while
you're working.
So I, I deducted spotify lastyear as an expense.
Oh my god, I'm gonna.

Speaker 2 (55:32):
And.

Speaker 1 (55:32):
I got that idea from a client whose accountant told
me she could do this.
So the other thing I have, likeyou can see it if you're, if
you're watching the video but, Ihave a jigsaw puzzle down there
and I always have a jigsawpuzzle going, because when I'm
really stuck in my head, I'lljust go sit on the floor and put

(55:54):
a few pieces in and and itusually gets my brain going and
I kind of got the idea from mydog when he was, when he was
younger and very high energy hewas.
He wanted attention all the timeand so very often what I would
do is I would get up from mydesk and I would go sit on the
floor so that I could roll aball for him or give him belly
rubs or just give him attention,but keep working, um, and very

(56:17):
often just sitting on the floor.
The act of sitting on the floorwould make me see the room
differently or change things up,and it was just I'm just giving
my dog a belly rub so he'llgive me peace.

Speaker 2 (56:29):
Totally.
I do that Interestingly.
I do that with pieces ofartwork, so as I'm painting it,
I'll be painting, and then Iquite literally turn it upside
down or turn it sideways, and Iwork on the piece from a
different perspective and all,quite literally, all is is just
turning it around.
But that changes thingsdrastically and my mind
immediately sees the piecedifferently.

(56:50):
And that is so, yeah, andsometimes I'm like and that is
so, yeah, and sometimes I'm like, oh, this looks cooler this way
, which is sometimes maybe not agood thing, but I yeah.

Speaker 1 (57:02):
It's so funny because you were talking about doing
mandalas and I do.
I draw mandalas quite often.
It's one of my ways to kind ofrelax and I was always
struggling with my line art onit because I do them by hand.
I do the measurements with acompass and protractor and stuff
, but I do the actual art linework by hand and I was always

(57:23):
struggling with it.
And I watched a quick littlevideo on Skillshare, again
learning how to get better atsome things to make it easier
for yourself.
But in the video the guy islike remember to turn your paper
, turn your paper turn yourpaper, turn your paper.

Speaker 2 (57:45):
And I was like I never turn my paper, like so
it's so funny.
you say that I know I know I wasdoing the mandala design and
again I was doing it on my iPad.
I had all the lines andeverything mapped out and one of
the little elements is a heart,and so I was drawing these
perfect hearts when it was me.
And then ups, and I'm like god,I really can't draw a heart
upside down.
And then I'm literally holdinga fucking iPad that the screen

(58:07):
rotates like I don't even haveto turn anything, I just go with
my fingers, and it turned and Iwas like ding, like how thick
am I?
Anyway, but these are, youdon't think of it until you
think of it, right, and so Imean, it sounds as simple as
turning the page yes, it'sembarrassing to even admit I'm

(58:27):
an illustrator and a graphicdesigner.

Speaker 1 (58:29):
Like how was I not turning my paper?

Speaker 2 (58:33):
I know it's just funny, because I bet you a
hundred dollars, melissa, I betyou a hundred dollars that if
you were coloring in a MissDoodle you would turn the page
to get like the skirt.
Like I bet you, you've turnedyour page in the coloring in
process.

Speaker 1 (58:50):
I'm not good at moving things around.

Speaker 2 (58:53):
Really, I'm really not.

Speaker 1 (58:54):
Like it's, it's's, it doesn't come naturally to me.
I mean, maybe that's a reallyweird thing to admit, but yeah,
I I'm.
I tend to kind of like get intothat situation where it's
literally blinders, like here ismy paper it's like your page is
taped to your table yeah, and Ican't move it, and it's not,
and it's so ridiculous.
It's so ridiculous and yet Iwill bet you a hundred dollars.

(59:16):
Somebody's listening to thisand thinking, oh my God, I don't
turn my paper.

Speaker 2 (59:21):
Honestly, the number of light bulb moments I've had
recently are quite literally,I'm like I am 46 years old and I
just learned that and I, andsometimes I'm like how far of a
hole was my head in?
Anyway, you don't see what youdon't see, and I think sometimes
you see it when you actuallyneed to see it, and so perhaps

(59:44):
somebody has said that to youbefore, but it never registered.

Speaker 1 (59:49):
Yeah, it's so funny, but just like oh my God, I can
turn the page.

Speaker 2 (59:53):
Turn the page.
Yeah, what we need is the.
Um, do you remember those booksthat we read as a kid and it
was uh, like when the recordmade the sound or the tape made
the sound?
Uh, but in my gen, your gen,the record made a sound and it
was to the sound to turn thepage yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah,
anyway, that's, we need thatsound.

Speaker 1 (01:00:12):
Turn the page, so funny, um, anyway, uh, the other
thing you mentioned was tryingsomething new, um, which I also
had on my list, um, one of thethings to check out, like if
you've ever done the artist'sway.
If you haven't done theartist's way, it is a great way
to help, uh, kickstart yourcreative process or to.

(01:00:35):
But one of the things she talksabout that the thing that
everybody always remembers ismorning pages from the artist
way.
Everybody talks about doingmorning pages, which is a very
helpful tool.
One of the other things shetalks about that was really
really key for me was theartist's date, where you take
your inner artist, who is?
She equates to a child, a smallchild who has temper tantrums

(01:00:56):
and can be very moody, and, um,yeah, who?

Speaker 2 (01:00:59):
needs.

Speaker 1 (01:00:59):
So that's not the grown-up artist no, it's a very
different part of us and, okay,she's like.
You need to take that innerchild, that inner artist, on a
date once a week where you goout and you do something that is
just meant to nurture thatinner artist, and it could be.
It doesn't have to be big andfancy, it could be something

(01:01:21):
super small.
It could just be like a walk inan area that you've never been
to before.
It could be going to an artgallery.
An art gallery is one thatalways works for me.
Another one that works for meis taking public transit.
It it sounds so weird, but justplopping down on a bus and
looking out the window, yeah itwas when it was for me.

Speaker 2 (01:01:41):
It's a meal in a restaurant by myself and it's
yeah, so anything is publictransit like just literally
sitting there and peoplewatching.

Speaker 1 (01:01:47):
It is so glorious um, I will often go to my local
community garden and I will justwalk around and take pictures
of the flowers for later,because I just like looking at
how mother nature creates colorcombos.
Yeah, there's so many differentthings you could do.
It could just be going for apicnic on your own in a place

(01:02:09):
you've never been, just, youknow, take a water bottle, a
sandwich and sit on a rocksomewhere and just watch what
happens around you.
On this same podcast, theCreative Pep Talk podcast, he
had an illustrator on who haddone a really interesting
project where she was capturingthe small critters of her local

(01:02:31):
area and I can't remember whatthe name of the book was, but
one of the things she had to dowas to go out and find them all
so she could draw them.
And so she would go to theserandom places and just sit
herself down and wait for allthese little critters to come to
her.
So we're not talking likesquirrels and things, we're
talking like bugs, basicallyLittle bugs, snakes and stuff.

(01:02:54):
And in one instance she went tothis kind of empty lot that was
near an apartment building.
Uh, that, because she justdidn't really have anywhere else
to go at that point and she'slike you wouldn't think there
would be anything in an emptylot, but there was a little bit
of a pond or something.
I might be getting this wrong.
It's been a while since Ilistened to the episode.

(01:03:14):
There's a little bit of a pondor something.
I might be getting this wrong.
It's been a while since Ilistened to the episode.
There's a little bit of a pondor something and she just kind
of sat down next to it and thenshe started to notice like there
was little water bugs in thepond and there was little
critters coming around.
And anywhere she went, if shesat down long enough and paid
attention to her surroundings,they would reveal themselves to
her.
And I think there's a lesson inthat is that sometimes we're in

(01:03:37):
such a rush or we dismisssomething because it looks
boring or mundane, whereas if wejust sat with it for a few
minutes it would start to revealits secrets whether it's little
critters whether it's noises,whether it's changes in the
light, so that could be anartist state and it's doing
those kinds of new things thatcan really shake things up for

(01:04:01):
us, but we have to consciouslymake the decision to do them.
Yes.

Speaker 2 (01:04:07):
Yes, yes, big time, and for me they have to.
Those things have to involvethe senses, multiple senses for
me.
So I like sound is a big one.
Music in my studio, the feeling, and so funny enough sometimes
for me, even just shaking thingsup, I turn music up
ridiculously loud and dancequite literally because no one

(01:04:29):
is watching, I'm sure I looklike a crazy person, don't care
at all Feels fantastic and it isan incredibly cathartic like
delightful, and I taylor swift,I shake it off, but literally
like I just wow and it's, I'mlike, and I'm back, she's back,
let's go, and it's not.
Yeah, that's.

(01:04:51):
I think sometimes it's justthat simple.

Speaker 1 (01:04:53):
Yeah, sometimes one of my go-tos is 25 jumping jacks
, like sometimes that is all Ineed is just like get up, do 25
jumping jacks and sit back downagain and it just gets the blood
flowing and you know.
Or making a cup of tea isanother one.
There's something verymethodical about making a cup of
tea and you can't rush it.

(01:05:14):
You can't rush it.

Speaker 2 (01:05:15):
The kettle boils when the kettle it you can't rush it
when the kettle boils you can'tmake it grow faster?
Yes, and it doesn't come atlike the.
The tea doesn't come out of thetea bag any faster.
You can squeeze it all you want, it don't?
It's?
Yeah, you have to let it sit.

Speaker 1 (01:05:25):
Something is super simple, is that?
The last one I had on my listthat I wanted to mention was
time, and this is one that I'vebeen paying more attention to
recently.
We and this is so interestingbecause once you become
self-employed, you can workwhenever you want to work and

(01:05:49):
yet we all tend to slide into arut of working very often the
same hours.
We worked when we had a job job, and we just do that because
that's when we work.
But are those necessarily thebest hours for you to work,

(01:06:10):
particularly for you, yeah, oranyone and you know like are you
a morning person?
Are you a night owl?
Um, yeah, one of the things I'venoticed recently is that I used
to have a very hard and fastrule that I always took one full
day off on the weekend.
No work, didn't matter whichday it was Saturday, sunday, but

(01:06:30):
no work, just away from screens.
And that was when I was comingout of a very bad episode of
burnout, and I am still a bigbeliever in having one day where
you don't do anything.
You just need to.
But, it could be a Wednesday, itcould be a Wednesday, it could
be a Friday, it could be aWednesday, it could be a Friday,
it could be whatever day youwant.
But one of the things I'venoticed is that when I work for

(01:06:52):
a couple of hours on a Saturdayor Sunday morning usually
earlier in the morning, so let'ssay from nine till 11, I am so
productive in those two hoursthat is like almost a full day's
worth of product, weekdayproductivity for me in two hours
, because during the week I'mgetting interrupted by stuff

(01:07:13):
going on Emails, people wantingthings from me, just and so
those two hours, and so I'vestarted embracing that.
Now I just do a couple of hoursin the morning on the weekend
and don't work.
You know like we're on, we'rerecording this on a Monday, so
we just came off of a weekend.

(01:07:33):
I worked about two hours onSunday and I actually worked a
full day on Saturday because Iwas so disrupted with so many
things going.
You know, like we had plumbingissues, so I had plumber in and
out all week and I had to takemy dad to a bunch of
appointments.
I just couldn't get into a flow.
So I'm just like you know what,I'm just going to work Saturday

(01:07:54):
and I got so much work done onthat Saturday because I wasn't
getting all the interruptionsthat I have during the week, and
so maybe for you, maybe,instead of watching Netflix in
the evening, go sit in yourstudio and try doing some work
For me.

Speaker 2 (01:08:12):
Sunday mornings are my big and even still and it's
interesting because you know,now I'm not out of the house
full time but I do have a joband so that I'm leaving the
house for and Sunday mornings.
You know people are like, oh,but then you're working on the
weekend.
I'm like, yeah, but it's mycraft, like it's not really
working, like tell me, it'spunishment that I get to spend

(01:08:35):
time doing the thing that I love, that gives me joy, in a
beautiful studio in my home in avery safe country.
Tell me, something's wrong withthat country.

Speaker 1 (01:08:49):
Tell me, tell me, something's wrong with that,
like if you're doing for a lotof us, creating is is what we
love to do, so if you get to dothat uninterrupted for a full
three hours on a Sunday morning,that could be very joyful for
you.
It it is right and so if it is.
What's wrong with that?

Speaker 2 (01:09:05):
totally and it's not and it's not, it it's not work.
If I was doing the accounting,that 100% is work.
That 100% is work.
But painting and even cleaningmy studio.
Like I spent five hours lastweekend cleaning my studio, that
was a glorious five hours.
I found things, I had ideas, Ihad music going, I had a great

(01:09:26):
time in my studio by myself andloved every single second of it.
I in fact, skipped lunchbecause I was, which is shocking
that I forgot about food.
But I was so.
I was just having a great timeand I honestly didn't think that
the time was passing as fast asit did.
And it did, yeah, yamy, yamy.

Speaker 1 (01:09:43):
Absolutely, absolutely, yeah, absolutely.
So, um, yeah, I think I thinkprobably, to wrap this all up,
the thing to really think aboutis all the places where you find
yourself doing the same thingover and over again, because,
yeah, because that's how I do it.
Um, there's nothing wrong withhaving routine.

(01:10:06):
I can't start something new inmy studio with a hot cup of tea
and a very clean desktop thosetwo things I need to have.
That signals creating to me.
It could be very different forsomebody else, but I am so bad

(01:10:28):
at falling into ruts of how I dothings without giving it a
moment's thought as to why I'mdoing it that way or if there's
a better way to do it, and soI'm trying now to make a very
conscious effort to if somethingisn't sitting right with me,
like if I'm not enjoying whatI'm doing doing, or if the task
is just something I'm puttingoff, like why?

(01:10:50):
Why am I putting off?
What could I do to make theprocess more enjoyable?
And sometimes it is somethingas simple as turning on some
music.
Sometimes, maybe it means Ineed to get up and move to a
different room, or maybe I justneed to go for a walk.

Speaker 2 (01:11:07):
Sometimes, that's all it is right, yep, yeah, yes,
and for me, like I'm, and againI'm going, just going back to
that, but it's, it's preparation.
And what obstacles can I removefor myself so that?
And so part of that is a cleanstudio, if I know that my water
is clean, if I know that all ofmy brushes are where they're
supposed to be, all the paint ishanging on it.
That preparation is part ofmaking sure that when I start

(01:11:31):
the thing, it's just I can go,and if I reach for red, red is
there, just like you, makingsure you have a stack of paper,
you have your pens, you haveyour computers on your mouse is
charged, other things, likethings.
There's things that need tohave.

Speaker 1 (01:11:46):
Yeah, they need to happen in a certain order, but
you can also release yourselfonce you're there, and I think
that's the, that's the beauty ofit yeah, I, I agree,
preparation is is huge um and,and it's something I'm not
always good at, because when Ido get the idea, I just want to
start, I just want to start, Ijust want to do it.
I just, you know, and it's like, and then I get irritated

(01:12:06):
because, oh, the marker I wantis dried out.
Or you know, and it's like, andthen I get irritated because,
oh, the marker I want is driedout, and then I just get
frustrated and like, and I juststop off.

Speaker 2 (01:12:17):
That's the mural that I'm painting this week.
Actually, one of my favoritethings about it is that it's a
new construction site and so,quite literally, like the there
obstacles and I'm not pulling,for instance.
So I've painted murals andbusinesses where I literally I
have to pull the desk away fromthe wall in order to access it,
but I can't just go straight atit.
Boy, that desk has been againstthat wall for 25 years and I

(01:12:39):
needed to clean the baseboards,dust, clean up all the wires, da
, da, da, da.
And it's like an hour and ahalf later and I just wanted to
get this show rolling and I'mstarting behind the eight ball
and that if, yeah, it's theunanticipated, yeah, anyway
absolutely no fun.

Speaker 1 (01:12:59):
No fun.
The prep works well.
I think that is probably it fortoday's episode.
You got it.
Do you have anything else, orare you good?

Speaker 2 (01:13:06):
no, no, I covered all my things.
Funny enough.
Awesome Me too.
Yeah, Funny how that works out.

Speaker 1 (01:13:13):
Yes, so I think that's it for this week,
everyone.
I hope this was an enjoyablestart to the season.
As far as the rest of theseason, we're going to be making
some tweaks to kind of how wedo things.
The prep for the holiday seriesis going to continue, running
all the way up to probably Idon't know how many more
episodes there will be, but it'sprobably going to run up to

(01:13:36):
early December as becausethere's just tasks that are
going on all through that.
So those episodes will continueto air.
I'm not sure how often we'regoing to be releasing new long
form episodes.
It'll be at least twice a month.
But I haven't decided if I'mgoing to move back to weekly or
not.
I'm still kind of on the fenceabout that.
But, um, kind of beenre-evaluating.

(01:14:00):
Last season was not the bestseason and and I'm trying to
figure out how to get us back ontrack to where we were at the
end of season four, which was byfar, um, our, our best season
we've ever done.
And um, you don't get a ton offeedback when you do podcasts.
All you have are downloadnumbers to go by.
So download numbers go up.

(01:14:22):
You assume you're doingsomething right and if they're
like something's not right.
But, from the feedback I havebeen able to get, the episodes
that people love are the onesthat we do together, which I
totally get, because I think wehave fun doing them and I think
that comes across when peopleare listening.
And the other ones that peoplelike are the ones that I do on
my own, which is shocking to mebecause they're my least

(01:14:45):
favorite to do, because it'sjust a lot of talking.
You're talking to yourself, Iknow it's a lot of talking and
it's very it's weird howexhausting talking for almost an
hour is, because your breathingis completely different when
you're talking constantly for anhour, so you're not breathing

(01:15:05):
breathing properly.
That's what I'm talking about.

Speaker 2 (01:15:08):
When I do shart, it's literally shart.
It's like 20 minutes and peopleare like, oh, that's it.
It was so short.
I'm like, but it was 20 minutesof me staring at me, talking to
me, hoping that you guys werethere.
Yes, like it's kind of.
Yeah, I'm like by 20 minutes.
I've talked to myself enough.

Speaker 1 (01:15:27):
I know, and I mean you and I can talk and talk and
talk and talk when we'retogether, because we're bouncing
off of one another, but to justsit there and talk, so that was
quite an eye opener to me.
So I am thinking about how I cando more solo episodes.
There's still going to be guestepisodes, but I am definitely
going to be working very hard tobring on guests that I feel are

(01:15:49):
a good fit.
I think that what people reallywanted from a guest is they
want to hear.
They want to hear firsthandfrom other creatives and their
business journeys as much astheir creative journey, and
those are the episodes thatalways do really well.
So we're going to try and do afew more of those.
We've got cool ones lined up.

(01:16:09):
Uh, yeah, so we are trying tofilm for youtube this year.
Not sure how that's going to go.
This episode, I think, willprobably be on youtube.
Um, the solo episodes willdefinitely go on youtube.
Guest episodes will depend onthe guest.
Um, a lot of guests do not wantto be on video, so that is
totally fine, but the ones whoare up for it, we'll try and

(01:16:30):
make those video episodes.
So see how that goes and Ithink that might be fun for
people to be able to see.
You can see our studios, youcan see yeah, totally, all of
that, our crazy hand gesture.
Exactly, I mean honestly, whenyou're just listening, you're
missing half of what's going on.

Speaker 2 (01:16:52):
There's a lot of hand gestures going on.
I feel like I don't know.

Speaker 1 (01:16:55):
we both talk with our hands a lot, correct?
Yes, for those of you who wantto, who are enjoying the show,
and you would like to support us, you can do that on Patreon and
through Buzzsprout.
There are links for that in theshow.
And you would like to supportus?
You can do that on Patreon andthrough Buzzsprout.
There are links for that in theshow notes.
And if you are a Patreonsupporter, you get access to

(01:17:16):
solo episodes every month andyou can sign up for that at any
time.
You get access to all the backepisodes.
Uh, that I do for Patreon.
You can even sign up for onemonth, listen to all the back

(01:17:37):
episodes and then unsubscribe,um, and sign up again in a
year's time to listen to therest.
But it is a great way tosupport the show.
It, uh, it does cost money toproduce the show and I don't run
ads or anything like that, sothis helps to offset some of the
costs that go with creating thepodcast.

(01:17:57):
Um, so I think that's it forthis week and we will see you
all again in another two weeks.
It will be a solo episode, thenext one and Heather will be
back.
She'll be back once a month oras many times as she wants to
come.
She's always welcome, but she'llbe back at least once a month

(01:18:19):
for the rest of the season, andif you have any suggestions for
things you'd like us to tackle,you can drop us a note at
anneshelookedup at gmailcom, oryou can send us a DM through our
Instagram account at and shelooked up um, or you can leave a
comment.
If you're watching on YouTube,please leave a comment in the
comment section for for thevideo, um, I will a hundred

(01:18:41):
percent respond and we love tohear from you.
So that is for this week.
Heather, thank you very muchfor being here.
Thank you very much.
It was nice to get.
We have we haven't seen eachother all summer, so this was
fun.
I know it's very nice, yes, andwe will be back, uh, shortly.
Talk to you all then.
Thank you so much for joiningus for the and she looked up

(01:19:09):
creative hour.
If you're looking for links orresources mentioned in this
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(01:19:29):
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