October 7, 2024 • 54 mins
In this week's regular season episode, classically trained fashion designer Rebecca Rowe joins the show to talk about how she pivoted her business (and how a disaster pushed her to embrace that pivot full force!) from a designer to a stylist who helps other women find confidence in their wardrobe. And then, she took on what, at first glance, appeared to be a surprising collaboration to expand her business even further. Take a listen and it will all make sense!
Rebecca shares her top tips for connecting and collaborating with other businesses and for having a successful business pivot.
This is a great episode for creatives who...
⭐️ are looking to collaborate but don't know where to start - or who to collaborate with
⭐️ need a little help thinking outside of the box when it comes to collaborations
⭐️ would like to pivot their business but are afraid of starting fresh or upsetting existing clients or customers
This episode is brought to you by our Premium Subscriber Community on Patreon and Buzzsprout
MENTIONED IN THIS EPISODE:
- Rebecca on Instagram
- rebeccarowe.ca
- Rebecca on LinkedIn
- Finding Your Fit with Rebecca & Jenn
- EP 48: How to Make $100 in Your Creative Business Today
You can find Melissa at finelimedesigns.com, finelimeillustrations.com or on Instagram @finelimedesigns.
You can connect with the podcast on:
- Instagram at @andshelookedup
- YouTube
- Tik Tok at @AndSheLookedUp
For a list of all available episodes, please visit:
And She Looked Up Creative Hour Podcast
Each week The And She Looked Up Podcast sits down with inspiring Canadian women who create for a living. We talk about their creative journeys and their best business tips, as well as the creative and business mindset issues all creative entrepreneurs struggle with. This podcast is for Canadian artists, makers and creators who want to find a way to make a living doing what they love.
Your host, Melissa Hartfiel (@finelimedesigns), left a 20 year career in corporate retail and has been happily self-employed as a working creative since 2010. She's a graphic designer, writer and illustrator as well as the co-founder of a multi-six figure a year business in the digital content space. She resides just outside of Vancouver, BC.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
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(01:03):
And now let's get on with theshow.
Welcome to the and she Looked Uppodcast.
Each week we sit down withinspiring Canadian women who
create for a living.
(01:24):
We talk about their creativejourneys and their best business
tips, as well as the creativeand business mindset issues all
creative entrepreneurs strugglewith.
I'm your host, melissaHartfield, and after leaving a
20-year career in corporateretail, I've been happily
self-employed for 12 years.
I'm a graphic designer, anillustrator and a
multi-six-figure-a-yearentrepreneur in the digital
(01:46):
content space.
This podcast is for the artists, the makers and the creatives
who want to find a way to make aliving doing what they love.
Hello everyone, and welcome toanother episode of the and she
Looked Up podcast.
As always, I'm your host,melissa, and this week I'm
(02:10):
really looking forward towelcoming Rebecca Rowe to the
podcast.
Hi Rebecca, hi Melissa, greatto have you here.
For those of you who may not befamiliar with Rebecca, she is a
classically trained fashiondesigner and a personal stylist
and declutter expert who focuseson helping women find their
personal style that she believeslives in their existing closets
(02:34):
.
Isn't that nice to know thatour style is already there?
By letting go of what no longerserves them, through fashion
psychology, she's able to helpher clients tackle their blocks
and leave with a clean closetand a great relationship with
(02:54):
our clothes.
And isn't that what we all want?
It's make our morning easierwhen we get up and have to make
those decisions.
So Rebecca is here today we'regoing to be talking a little bit
about her story, but we're alsogoing to be talking about
collaboration, because she's hada little bit of an interesting
take on that, and I think one ofthe things that a lot of
(03:17):
creatives stumble with when itcomes to collaborating with
other creatives is not knowingwhere to start or not realizing
that they don't have tocollaborate with somebody who
does exactly what they do.
So we're going to be talking alittle bit about that today, but
before we get into that,rebecca, the first question I
ask everyone who comes on theshow is did you feel like you
(03:38):
were creative as a kid?
Speaker 2 (03:41):
I did feel creative as a kid, um, but I'm not sure
if I felt creative or if I wastold I was creative, and this is
interesting way of growing up,because I was good at visual
arts, painting I always wasdoing something with my hands,
and so I guess you could callthat creative um, and I enjoyed
(04:02):
it.
But I was always told oh you,oh, you're so talented, you're
so talented, you're so creative.
So I think I took on a bit ofthat personality from a really
young age and started toassociate myself with those
words and then, as I grew up, Istarted discovering what
creativity means to me, and theterm has changed a little bit
(04:24):
since when I was a kid.
Speaker 1 (04:25):
Oh, okay, so how?
What does it mean to you?
Speaker 2 (04:29):
So for me, especially in business, I always think of
an entrepreneur as a creative,because we have to think in
creative ways Most of the time.
I actually most like almostalways.
The way that we get to ourgoals is not linear.
It's not the same way, and sowe're constantly problem solving
and creating new answers tovery simple questions, and
(04:54):
that's what I really considercreative and how I would
describe myself as a creative.
Now it's like I'm more of acreative problem solver.
My brain thinks in a creativeway, but I no longer
specifically draw orspecifically paint.
Does that make sense?
Speaker 1 (05:10):
It totally makes sense.
I totally agree with you.
I think entrepreneurship is Ithink all careers have creative
elements to it where creativethinking is an asset.
So and I think we're allcreative at heart, so I don't
really believe that there is anon-creative career.
I think we can always add somecreativity to whatever it is
(05:32):
that we do.
But you wound up as aclassically trained fashion
designer, so obviously youstarted down that very
traditional creative path.
What was it that took you thatdirection?
Did it like were you drawingclothes in school or like where
(05:52):
was it?
How did you tell us your path?
Speaker 2 (05:57):
um, so you're gonna laugh.
Okay now I know that we're bothon a podcast and I know that
people in their cars are notseeing this, but I am six foot
one and I've been six foot onesince I was about 15, so
creating clothes really became apassion, because I didn't have
anything available to me right.
Um, when I was 15, I waswearing maternity clothes
because I needed the length andI wanted that long, uh tank top
(06:20):
underneath your baby tee.
Speaker 1 (06:21):
Look, that's how old I am guys, we're just gonna not
judge me and um.
Speaker 2 (06:26):
So I started thinking about clothes and I started
thinking about why we didn'twear clothes, and I was getting
really creative in findinganswers to this problem.
The problem was I was notfitting into the clothing that
my friends were wearing.
I wanted to wear those clothes.
What can I do?
And then I discovered the men'ssection, and then I discovered
the maternity section, like Imentioned, and then I was like
there has to be a better way and.
(06:48):
I started sewing, I starteddrawing clothing, but really I
started sewing and puttingtogether these what I would call
puzzles, which ended up beingclothing.
Um, when you think aboutclothing, it is actually just a
3d puzzle, and it's somethingthat's uh always been
interesting to me is the patternmaking, which is uh kind of
like the building blocks of anyclothing piece interesting okay
(07:13):
so that's how I got into it didyou?
Speaker 1 (07:16):
did you have like a sewing background, or was it
like grade eight, home ec, or Idon't know?
Do they still do sewing in homeec?
I was the last grade to gothrough where it was only girls
who did sewing, but I think theystill had Home Ec available.
So did you have to teachyourself how to sew, or was that
something?
Speaker 2 (07:34):
you just figured out, I was homeschooled, so I didn't
go to school until I was ingrade 11 and 12.
I did a visual arts program ingrade 11 and 12.
But before then.
So when I first started sewing,um, my grandmother taught me
how to sew and when she gotfrustrated she gave me a roll of
duct tape and she said figureit out, put it together.
And uh, so I was putting thingstogether with duct tape, but I
(07:58):
took some sewing classes just atlocal um fabric stores in in
Ottawa and they're the ones whotaught me how to sew.
And then I went to school, asyou mentioned before,
classically trained.
So I went to school in New Yorkand I went to school in Paris
and they really honed in mysewing skills.
Speaker 1 (08:16):
Nice.
So, yeah, new York and Paris Ithink a lot of us think of those
as fashion capitals.
So that must have been a prettyexciting experience at that age
to be in the thick of thatworld.
So after you finished school,you must have had a few
different options.
You could have gone and workedfor a fashion house or for a
(08:40):
label or something along thoselines.
But it sounds like you wentyour own path, or was there a
step in between there?
Speaker 2 (08:50):
I.
So I finished, uh, I graduatedfashion school, uh, in Paris is
where I got my certificate.
Um, I'm probably saying thatwrong, it's been so long.
Um, and I came home to Ottawagovernment town in capital
Canada, and I was like, oh,there's going to be jobs for
(09:11):
fashion designers here.
No, no, there's not.
There wasn't.
I'm sure there is now.
But so I got home, startedworking as a server and I said
no, no, no, no, no.
I did not spend the amount ofmoney I spent on my education to
for this.
So, within a year of being homeand I had a few friends who had
(09:35):
known, I went to fashion schooland they offered me a spot in
what was called Capital Catwalk.
Um, it was a charity catwalkand and I was like you know what
, let's make a collection.
Within six months I made acollection.
I showed my first collectionand then I started selling my
collection and I've been workingin the fashion industry since.
Speaker 1 (09:55):
So you started out self employed pretty early.
Speaker 2 (09:58):
Then like I took around that I've never had a
real job.
Speaker 1 (10:04):
I don't think you're the only one who listens to this
podcast who would say that, soI think we can all relate to
that.
But so there must have been alittle bit of an entrepreneurial
streak in you.
From the get go, you obviouslywere like I'm going to do this,
I'm going to make it happen formyself.
If there's no jobs here, I'llmake a job.
So it felt safer.
(10:24):
Yes, I totally get that, andyou're the first person I've had
on the show who has said that.
But I remember when I quit myjob to become self employed, I
didn't feel safe in a corporateenvironment.
I felt like I could be let goat any moment, or somebody in a
corner office could look at aspreadsheet and say, yeah, she's
gone and not even know who Iwas.
(10:45):
And I just thought, if I'm incharge, I get to be in control
of my career, and that feltsafer to me.
But I know it's not like thatfor everyone.
So I totally get that.
Speaker 2 (10:59):
It's the mindset of you can always make more money
If you're creative.
There's 101 different ways thatyou can make money and if you
need to, I promise you you willgo out and find a way to make
money, whether it's you sellanother piece for me it was
selling clothing.
Or when I started styling, itwas because people were asking
(11:21):
me to go through their closetsbecause I had good style.
I was like, okay, great, I can,I can charge money for this.
Now I have another streamcoming towards me.
So, because I was in control oflike you said, like of
everything, and not just anumber on a spreadsheet that
goes you're expensive.
Speaker 1 (11:38):
Next, exactly, it felt safer yeah, no, I, I
totally get that and, like Isaid, you're the first person
who's been on the show who'sactually said that.
So, yeah, I completely agreewith you.
You mentioned in your bio onyour website that you're a
designer with a message, andwhile you're not actively
(12:00):
designing at this point, whatwas the message that you felt
you had to share with the worldthrough your clothes?
Speaker 2 (12:10):
So when I first started my clothing brand and it
has kind of the message isstill there it's always that
your personal style is in yourcloset and when I was creating
clothes it was I had created anew size guide.
That was the message reallythat I wanted to get into is
that the clothing themselves canbe wrong.
Your body is inherently notwrong, so no matter what
(12:33):
whatever's in your closetcurrently either can fit, will
fit or it's time to go right.
Um, and I really wanted to getthat through to people is that,
by nature of the fact that wewould never say a sunflower is
too yellow, your body cannot bewrong, no matter what anyone
else is saying.
So the clothing that is manmadeand often very quickly manmade
(12:58):
and designed to fit a fewmillion people, they can be
wrong.
So I wanted people to feelreally beautiful and feel really
confident, whatever that lookedlike for them, because beauty
changes depending on how yougrew up, what you value, etc.
Etc.
Etc.
But I really wanted it to makesure that it was customized to
(13:20):
what their values were and fitthe body that they were trying
to, uh, to live in, awesome thatthey are living in yes, just I
think that's a struggle that somany of us have is just feeling
like you wake up and our bodieschange as we get older and
things happen.
Speaker 1 (13:37):
And just, I literally just had this conversation with
a friend the other day abouthow, as you get older, even
though our weight the number onthe scale hasn't changed,
nothing fits Like just sort ofhappened overnight.
Everything in our closetdoesn't fit because the the
everything where all the weightsits, has shifted.
(13:58):
It's in different spots now andit's so frustrating and you get
so you start to feel a littlebit down on yourself and it's uh
, so to have somebody who comesalong and says that no, no, it's
not you, it's those in yourcloset.
So you've gone beyond designingat this point, um, and you're
(14:19):
doing other things.
So let's talk a little bitabout that.
And one of the first thingsthat you mentioned that you went
and did as a new offshoot um,from what you were originally
doing is working as a personalstylist.
So you mentioned that you hadfriends who were starting to ask
you um, hey, can you help meout?
(14:39):
Um, because don't we all wishwe had that friend, right?
Speaker 2 (14:43):
Exactly.
And then as soon as you findthat friend and you find out
that they're doing it, you knowyou start doing it.
So I had a couple of friendsthat were like, oh, can you help
me with the styling?
Can you help me, like,declutter my closet?
I have so many things in mycloset and you're so good at
putting things together, can youhelp me?
I said sure, no-transcript,throw some gasoline on the
(15:35):
styling and see what happens.
And next thing you know, I was,I've been booked ever since.
I changed my website a littlebit, took the clothing off,
obviously, but I've been bookedever since because I realized
(15:55):
that this is a really bigproblem is that people are
overwhelmed going into theircloset a lot of the times, and
that's the main feeling I thinkthat I've witnessed is that
these women are like I have allof these clothes and I've been.
I've been told that they lookgood.
I don't know how to wear them.
They don't really feel.
Feel like me.
Should I keep wearing them eventhough they look good, but I
don't like them?
So it's really a bigconversation and that's where
the fashion psychology comes in,because it's not just about
(16:17):
wearing something that looksgood, it's also about feeling
good.
Um, and there's so much thatcomes into that, right?
Uh, I mentioned before, likeI'm six foot one, I have no
problem wearing something that'sa little bit more revealing,
because men don't come up to me.
I worked as a server, as Imentioned, and for years I was
(16:42):
hey man, because I'm lookingdown at them when they talk.
Speaker 1 (16:46):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (16:47):
And to all of my friends who were there you know
they're smaller than me, hey,baby girl, oh, interesting.
And so their relationship withhow they chose to present
themselves was very differentthan how I can choose to present
myself, present myself, becausethe way that we grew up, the
way that in those formativeyears we had nicknames, that
changed based on who we are as aperson, how we presented
(17:09):
ourselves, what people instantlythought about.
And so that's where I go intothose conversations now with
these women who are, you know,they're out of the serving
industry or they're out of thisand they're into a new part of
their life, and I say great.
So you know, you don't likewearing pink.
Why not?
Pink looks amazing on you.
Oh well, my ex-boyfriend likedit on me and I hate him.
Okay, cool.
(17:30):
Well, let's not wear pink.
Then I'm not as colorist.
I think that the color seasonsare stupid.
To be quite honest, I'm notgoing to lie.
If you want me to do your coloranalysis, I'll be like look at
yourself in the mirror.
The one that you smile in isthe color that you like.
Oh, I love that, yeah yes youdon't need to pay me four
hundred dollars.
I'm gonna tell you for free onthis podcast.
(17:52):
You look at yourself in themirror and you like the, and
you're smiling in a color.
It's the color that looks goodon you, period, and it's going
to change because, as youmentioned, as we get older, our
yeah.
But if you still love green andit makes you smile wear the
green, and so that's how thebusiness progressed and changed,
and I've since been hired to doworkshops and talks because I
(18:15):
don't see styling as somethingthat should be unattainable.
I see it as a skill that peopledeserve to learn yeah, that's.
Speaker 1 (18:27):
We never really think of it as a skill, do we?
But you're right, that's, yeah,it's a skill.
So so when you made this pivotbecause I think also a lot of
creatives feel like they getstuck in something that they're
known for or that they'rethey're good at and they do well
at, but it's not necessarilylighting the fire anymore and
(18:50):
they'd like to pivot, not wildlyor anything, but do something a
little bit different.
And they're not sure how, orthere's some fear there that it
won't be successful or whatever.
So when you, you obviously hadinterest.
You had people, friends andthings coming to you.
But when you decided to pivot,what did you do from like a
(19:11):
business standpoint, to getyourself out there?
Or was it completely word ofmouth?
Speaker 2 (19:16):
Like were you, did you change up how you marketed,
or I drastically changed mymarketing and I went hard with
almost everything.
Imagine you're starting yourbusiness from scratch because
the clients who have beenworking with you for a certain
(19:36):
type of product or service andif you decide to change, they're
going to still ask you for thatproduct your ideal customer and
you're going to want to shiftyour messaging and get very
clear with what you do offer,which means and now this is hard
for creatives, I know I'm oneof them really hard boundaries.
(19:59):
Yeah, this is what I do, thisis what I don't do.
I was, in hindsight, luckyenough to have a flood that
completely destroyed my business.
Right, there was no oh, can youjust make me this?
I had no patterns, I had nofabric, I had nothing.
I barely had a sewing machine.
(20:19):
So the answer was no, Iliterally can't.
But when you still have theability and someone's asking you
for it and you're like, oh, butthat you know 500 bucks would
be really good right now, youhave to say no, yeah, and you
have to go hard with what you'retrying to say, what you're
(20:42):
trying to sell, and the mainthing that I see with creatives
in this space is sell me, selllike, don't allude to it.
Oh, I'm starting something new.
I'm starting something new.
You want it because of this.
And here's where you buy it.
Yeah, like, make it idiot proof, and that is the easiest way,
(21:05):
and it's terrifying.
And the first time you postthat reel on Instagram or TikTok
or whatever and you go no, andthen you walk away from your
phone and you're like, nope, butyou did it.
And if you did it once, you cando it again.
Speaker 1 (21:19):
Yeah, I think you kind of hit the nail there where
you said, oh, if I do this,it's an extra $500, because how,
like?
I think that's part of thescary part is there's always
this underlying current thatit's hard to earn a living as a
creative.
So if you are earning a livingas a creative and you're making
money and things are going well,that thought of pivoting to
(21:41):
something different but stillcreative, like what if the money
doesn't come in?
And I think there's that fearof like what if the money
doesn't come in?
And and I think there's thatfear.
So when, when these littleopportunities come up from your
past passion uh, it's it is sohard to say no like, especially
(22:03):
when you're not sure when thenext paycheck is going to land
in your bank account.
Speaker 2 (22:05):
So, oh, I was going to say, and like this just goes
back to the first, very one ofthe first things we said is like
you can always make more money.
So if you change into this newbusiness and you're like no hard
boundary, this is what I'mdoing, I've pivoted.
And then people keep asking youor for other things.
Go back and say what am I doing?
(22:30):
Because if I'm being drawn tothese things, am I being drawn
to the proposal because of themoney.
If I need $500, what can I doin my business right now to earn
me $500?
Speaker 1 (22:38):
Yeah, actually, and for those of you listening,
heather and I did an episode wayback, I think in season one or
season two, I can't remember onwhat you could do to earn $100
in your business today and everyday, and it's a really
interesting exercise to gothrough, regardless of what it
is that you do.
But just to think to yourself,what could I do to earn $100
right now, doing what I love todo, and when you sort of think
(23:02):
of it from that perspective,making $100 is not that hard.
It's not a lot of money today,right, like a hundred dollars.
Doesn't even buy your groceriesat this point.
So, um, you know, what couldyou do to earn a hundred dollars
today?
And so that's an interestingthing to think about.
If you're thinking out therethat you'd like to pivot, so how
(23:24):
could you make that firsthundred dollars in your pivot?
And how do you make the secondhundred dollars and just keep
pushing along?
Speaker 2 (23:31):
because you save that episode on how to make a
hundred dollars and then everytime you want to say, sure you
know what you go.
Nope, let me put my headphoneson.
Listen to melissa I still.
Speaker 1 (23:41):
I go back and listen to it myself, because every now
and then I need that reminder.
I pivoted about two years agoand it's like there's days where
I just need to go back and hearit.
So, yeah, absolutely when you,when you made the decision to
pivot, though, like, how did youget the word out beyond the
(24:02):
people who you were alreadyworking with?
Like, did you, were you rampingup your social media?
Were you hitting up your emaillist?
Like, what did you do to youramping up your social media?
Were you hitting up your emaillist?
Like, what did you do to kindof get the word out there?
Speaker 2 (24:13):
Yes, so I did, um, I kickstarted my Instagram by
posting 30 reels like in 30 days, um, really, with very specific
hashtags.
So I was telling Instagram I aman Ottawa stylist and I didn't
really care about anything else.
(24:34):
Like, the point was, who am Itrying to target?
What am I doing?
So?
Styling tips, the lettingthings go how that feels,
because you know, every time yougo through a closet purge then
you think, oh well, what aboutthat top?
No, that's buyers remorse,we're gonna let that one go.
Um, so I just everything I couldthink of went into instagram
(24:57):
and I went, sent out an email tomy existing clients telling
them the truth hey, my businessis on fire, or actually it's
underwater underwater.
If you are not interested inthe type of content that I will
be producing from now, here isthe unsubscribe button.
I'm asking you to respectfullyleave because I'm no longer
(25:18):
selling clothing.
If you were only here forclothing, there's nothing I can
really do.
Here are some other people thatyou can go to.
So I cleared out my email list,which, I'm not gonna lie, it is
a terrifying number.
When you see the email numbersgo down and you're like it's
going to be fine because my openrate is really high, my open
rate is really high, my openrate is really high.
And then I went to otherbusinesses who were
(25:41):
complimentary to me.
Part of one of my services is Itake women shopping and I love
taking women to small boutiqueswhere they can find something
that is super unique.
And so I went around to thosebusinesses and they asked me for
my cards.
So now I think there's threebusinesses in Ottawa, in the
(26:01):
downtown core we're all locallyowned who have my cards.
So when women come in and say,oh, I don't know what looks good
on me, what should I do?
You need Rebecca?
Because also they say this isnot my job, I am not a therapist
, you need to, but they, but nowthey're selling for me also and
and I take clients to theirstores because they have amazing
(26:24):
pieces.
So yeah, it's a very symbiotic,very win, win.
Speaker 1 (26:28):
Yes, and you know we talk about this a lot on the
podcast, about how you need togo outside and talk to people.
Speaker 2 (26:38):
Go to networking events and do the things.
Speaker 1 (26:40):
Yeah.
So you know, I mean, those kindof relationships don't happen
easily on social media.
So if you go out and you makethe first step and you're
walking into a business who isgoing to benefit from what you
can bring to them at the sametime as you're benefiting from
what they can bring to you, soit's a win-win.
(27:01):
And when you can kind ofapproach it like that and
present it like that, people aremore willing to listen to what
it is that you're trying to sayto them.
Speaker 2 (27:11):
So use the relationships you have.
So if it's, if there's a localcoffee shop and you go there
anyway, tell the barista thatyou talk to every day.
Oh, you know, I'm starting thisnew business.
That barista sees what Ahundred people a day Easily.
Yeah, that's someone who'smarketing for you.
Oh, that's awesome.
(27:31):
Do you want to put your card upon our flyer board?
Amazing.
It doesn't have to be somethingthat's like specifically in
your niche to get your word outthere.
Speaker 1 (27:42):
Yeah, yeah, I think that's something we forget and
need to be reminded of, becauseyou never know who somebody is
connected to, Right, yeah, soit's always worth just
mentioning it.
If somebody asks you what youdo, you know when we talk about
the elevator pitch and all thatstuff, but it's, it's.
We talk about it because itworks.
(28:03):
It works when somebody asks youwhat you do.
If you're able to actually tellthem what it is that you do.
You just you never.
There's a commercial goingaround.
It's so, so silly.
I saw it on TV the other nightthese two women in an elevator
talking about buying a house orsomething and the woman behind
them pops out and she's like myson is a realtor and he's a
fitness coach and he sellssupplements and she's just
(28:25):
handing out all these businesscards and I'm like that's,
that's what you gotta do so yeah, it's, um it's.
It can be a little scarysometimes going outside.
I know I don't like it, but um,it's honestly how I think some
of the best opportunities cometo us.
Speaker 2 (28:45):
So, um everyone you gotta go outside and it's scary,
so put on a character yes,isn't that what beyonce does?
Sasha fierce yeah I put onserver becks, which is the
person that you know wasprobably serving you when I was
in my early 20s and I go hi, howare you?
My name's rebecca.
I'll be taking care of you, butI with uh it is.
Speaker 1 (29:08):
I'm a stylist.
It's a little uh switch thatyou need to flick when you walk
out the door that you are um.
We had another guest on who isa journalist, who is who's uh,
one of the quietest, um, moreintroverted people that I know.
But she said my notebook, myjournalist notebook that I carry
, is my shield.
(29:28):
When I have that notebook, Iturn into a journalist and
that's her.
That's the switch for her.
So I think we all need to findour switch.
Really, what it comes down tois what is that thing that makes
it easy for you to walk out thedoor and do that?
Speaker 2 (29:45):
The easy part is a costume.
So if you put on a single pairof heels or a certain blazer and
have that be your networkingoutfit, it can become a trigger
for your mind to go oh, ok, yeah, I'm ready to go now that kind
(30:11):
of thing can be like yeah, so,speaking of collaboration,
that's one of the things we weregoing to talk about today and
you, you've branched out inother ways.
Speaker 1 (30:16):
So you're, you're working as a personal stylist,
you're also helping womendeclutter their closets, which
kind of goes hand in hand withbeing a stylist, but you have
also started anothercollaboration with somebody who
is in a completely differentniche with you, a nutritionist.
So how tell us a little bit,first of all, about what it is
(30:39):
that you and Jen, I believe itis are doing and how that came
about?
Speaker 2 (30:46):
so I'm collaborating with Jen from Nutrition IQ so
her Instagram handle isNutrition IQ and she is an
anti-diet nutritionist.
And that's the first thing thatI was like all right, I like
you.
What's going on here?
Because, as we mentioned before, clothing is so entwined with
(31:08):
your body image that it seems tome to work pretty well together
.
So I actually worked with Jen,as she was a client of mine and
we were going through her closetand we became friends.
I really like the way that sheapproached food and she
approached clothing as a tool tohelp aid your body image, and
(31:30):
that's exactly what I do.
But I don't have a nutritionistbackground.
So she's actually the one whocame to me and said hey, I want
to do an online course.
Would you be interested incollaborating?
And here I was being likeabsolutely not, how am I going
to do an online course talkingabout clothes?
This makes no sense.
But she was like no, I think itwould be good, because then you
(31:50):
can explain your theories andthought processes to a bigger
audience.
So I took a second and, sureenough, we developed a course
together.
So she actually does.
The first part of the course isall about nutrition and
understanding what your bodyneeds, and then you get into my
part of the course, which iswhere I illustrate how to
(32:14):
therefore take care of your bodyin a different way from the
external, but in close on, andit is a very interesting
collaboration.
We just did a bunch ofmarketing for it like some
content, and the two of ustogether are just.
It's very like we're opposites,like she's small, I'm tall and
(32:35):
we have the same idea, and thething is is like when you're
looking for a collaboration,you're looking to meet the same
ideal customer.
So her ideal customer is a womanwho doesn't feel comfortable in
her own skin, and I would saythe same.
We're just coming at it from adifferent perspective.
And when we can get to thatlevel of body neutrality, we're
(32:56):
not.
I'm not saying that you have tolove your body Nobody loves
their body all the time but ifyou can get to the point where
you can say this is what it is,how, what can we do to move
forward and what can I do tofeel good right now?
This is what it is.
How can, what can we do to moveforward and what can I do to
feel good right now?
Which is the same form messagethat she had, and that's the way
that I think any collaborationneeds to work.
(33:16):
Is that one?
You need to be trying to talkto the same person, because that
same person probably has morethan one problem.
Um, and make sure that you guysboth have the same overall
theory and values.
Speaker 1 (33:32):
Yeah, yes, I think that's a big one that we don't
think about just when you,whether it's a collaboration, a
short-term collaboration, soit's a one project, or whether
you're bringing on a businesspartner or you're teaming up
with a friend, it's the thingthat I think is going to make
things as smooth as possible foryou is if you are on the same
(33:54):
page, like values wise, whichand it doesn't really matter
what your values are, it justmatters that you are in sync
with them, because I think allyour core arguments are going to
come from having differentvalue systems.
So it's very much like amarriage in some ways.
You know, just if those corevalues are out of sync, it's
(34:16):
really hard to be able to moveforward.
So, now that you've startedthis you mentioned it's an
online course, so that issomething very different for you
.
How did you guys go together?
How did you put that together?
Was that something Actually?
Let's back up.
So you've got two differentpeople with two very different
(34:37):
careers coming together to workon this project.
That at first might sound alittle odd, but when you explain
it, it makes total sense.
Like, of course, why would younot work together?
But how did you decide whowould do what?
Like when she approached youand so you know what were the
questions you were thinking inyour head, like what is it I'm
(34:59):
going to do, or who's going todo all the work?
That kind of thing.
How did you decide how todistribute the workload?
Speaker 2 (35:09):
So we're lucky enough to live in the same city, so
the first thing that we did waswe met at a coffee shop and we
went through.
Okay, what does our client needfrom us?
How can we provide theinformation that they need to
get the best outcome?
So what outcome are we lookingfor With an online course?
It's obviously a lot ofself-directed work and so we
(35:32):
can't guarantee the work becausewe're not there doing it with
them.
But if everything goes to plan,how?
What are we looking for theoutcome to be?
And so we both decided that wewanted the outcome to be someone
who was the next step forwardwith their body acceptance
journey.
So, with food, with clothingthey wanted.
(35:54):
Her idea was I want them to gointo a restaurant and not think
about the calories.
I want them to think about whatdoes my body need, what do I
want?
What will I enjoy?
And for me it was I want thesame thing.
I want them to go in theircloset in this morning, in the
in the morning, thinking, great,I'm going to put on this
because it's going to feel goodon my body.
Great, we both have outcomesthat we were going for.
(36:16):
And then we really workedbackwards.
Um, I went into.
I don't want to talk about bodyshape because I don't think it
matters as much as proportionmatters.
So I was.
There was a couple of thingsthat I was like I'm very adamant
that this needs to be coveredin the course, because it's not
covered anywhere else.
You can go on Pinterest andfind a here's what your body
(36:38):
type, here's what fruit you bestrepresent.
Yes, exactly.
And I'm like I've never seen awoman walk around looking like a
pear or an apple or an apple.
Makes no bloody sense, whereas,like, men get actual shapes and
you're here a rectangle, I'mlike that makes more sense.
Anyway, we're going to talkabout that on the podcast um so
(37:00):
I wanted to talk aboutproportion.
She wanted to talk aboutgrieving the thin ideal great.
So then we came up with aseries of chapters that we each
wanted them to go through andthen we individually filmed
content.
So we each made um slide decksthat we then recorded um.
(37:20):
I recorded in canva, sherecorded in zoom and then we put
them together on a platform.
Now it did have to be on herplatform because she has a um
nutritionist only platform,because we are talking about um,
some medical oh yeah, yeah.
So if anyone comes with any sortof um allergies or medications
(37:42):
or things that they need to havea bit more in-depth
conversation with, we wanted tomake sure that all of their
information was covered and safeto give.
So we chose to use her platform.
However, there there's amillion course platform.
So if you are thinking aboutrunning a course, use the one
that's best suited to you.
And then we got together, likeI said a couple of days ago, and
(38:03):
we came up with a shootingschedule for more content.
So it's really been acollaboration where we are
taking the workload on 50-50.
Both of us popping into thechat to make sure that if anyone
has any questions, we cananswer them accordingly.
Some people have more questionsabout style, some people have
more questions about specificnutrition.
(38:23):
Obviously, I can't answer andwe just play off of each other.
Speaker 1 (38:28):
Yeah answer and we just play off with each other.
Yeah, and I guess, from amarketing perspective, you've
both got your own separateaudiences um that you can bring
to this.
But are you doing likecoordinated marketing attempts,
like, have you, have you set upa separate social media for this
or are you just using your ownindividual accounts to?
Speaker 2 (38:51):
just using our own individual and then we're using
the uh invite collaborativecollaboration uh function on
instagram.
So as soon as she accepts theinvite, uh, the same reel pops
up on her instagram.
So if I edit it together, itwill pop up on Awesome.
Speaker 1 (39:11):
I think there's a lot of people out there who would
love to collaborate.
I see this all the time inFacebook groups.
We hear it from the people wetalk to through the podcast is I
want to collaborate, but Idon't know how.
I don't know how to findsomebody to collaborate with.
I don't know like what should Ibe thinking about all of these
questions?
And sometimes find somebody tocollaborate with I don't know
(39:31):
like what should I be thinkingabout All of these questions?
And sometimes they want tocollaborate with an influencer
who can help them get their workout into the world.
Sometimes they actually want todevelop something new with,
like a true businesscollaboration.
So when you were going throughthis process, like you said, you
met Jen.
You helped her with her closet,you became friends, friends and
(39:51):
you had similar value systems.
So was that what?
Like told you like this, thisis, this is a good person.
Like I feel good about this.
Um, I think someone, this issomeone I can really work with
for me with this specificproject.
Speaker 2 (40:05):
Yeah, it was a lot of .
I like the way that she works.
I've seen her work, um, and Iknow that we'll work well
together.
I'm comfortable doing acollaboration with this.
I feel like this will actuallyyield to results.
I've also done collaborationswith influencers and I've done
collaborations with othercompanies or other businesses.
(40:26):
Um, the one thing I will sayabout working with an influencer
is that they are a spotlight.
So if you're not ready for aspotlight, if all of your
funnels and all of your emailsand all of if something that on
your end, is not ready forgasoline, then don't throw
gasoline on it.
Um, it will, because they justshine a spotlight.
(40:49):
They say to their audience hey,check out this product, um, and
you need to be ready to be likegreat, here's all of the things
.
I need you into my orbit Now.
You are now my person, yes, sodo you have your collection
ready to go?
That, as soon as thisinfluencer posts you're ready
with, hey, and give me youremail, let's sign this up.
(41:10):
This is obviously something youwant from me.
Uh, check out my website.
It's cleaned up and ready to golike, do you have all of those?
Um, but if you're working withsomeone on a project, it's the
same as going back to school,right, like, first of all, are
you being realistic with howmuch time it's going to take?
Because it's going to take moretime than you think, yes, and
(41:31):
give yourself a, like, a runway.
So we actually this is oursecond time marketing this
course um, the first one we didwas a very soft launch.
We wanted to work out any kinks, so we offered, you know, a
early bird discount and now thatwe have those kings worked out,
we're very confident in sayinglike this is a good course and
(41:55):
everyone who's taken it so farhas gotten a lot out of it.
It's succeeded in both of our umobjectives.
And so here we go be preparedto run it more than once.
Like you said before, this is amarriage.
We're in it for the long haul,jen, like, if you're listening.
So you know you can't expectall the work to be on somebody
(42:18):
else.
You really have to be preparedand say great, here are the
skills that I can bring to thetable and find someone who
compliments you in the other way.
Speaker 1 (42:26):
Yeah, exactly, did you have any kind of formal
agreement in place when youstarted?
Because I know a lot of us whenwe do these things, we do not,
even though we probably should.
But was it just pretty muchlike, yeah, let's do this, and
then you just jumped off?
Speaker 2 (42:51):
if I do have a formal agreement.
So, um, like if I do a workshopwith somebody, then I at least
have an email chain, because aslong as it's um written down
with timestamps, you can use itas a contract.
Speaker 1 (42:57):
Yeah, excuse me.
Yeah, so it's one of thosethings when you're super excited
about something, you don'tnecessarily think about, um,
putting it down on paper oranything like that.
You just want to get moving,you want to.
You're excited about yourproject.
So what have been, um, some ofthe the pleasant surprises about
(43:19):
working with somebody outsideof your business and maybe some
of the challenges that youweren't expecting to pop up.
Speaker 2 (43:29):
The unexpected challenge that I that popped up
was working on someone else'stimeline.
That's always something CauseI'm sure, like myself and like
many other entrepreneurs, wethink that we can do 12 things
in a day and there's only 10slots.
So, um, working on someoneelse's timeline definitely was a
(43:52):
challenge, and it it means thatI have to take a look at myself
too, because of how I react.
I need to make sure that I'mnot getting stressed, or at
least not getting visiblystressed.
I don't want to stress her outby me getting stressed that we
know we don't have enough time,because there's always time.
You just got to take it fromsomewhere else.
Speaker 1 (44:09):
Um, but're in it it doesn't feel like.
Speaker 2 (44:13):
So that was one of the stresses, um and challenges
with working with someone else.
Honestly, with Jen, therewasn't a lot um, a lot of issues
, uh, working together.
But I have worked with otherpeople and other um in the past.
You know where you don't seethings eye to eye and it becomes
a conflict management exercisewhere you're asking yourself you
(44:37):
know, what are you willing togive up?
And that's the thing is.
This goes back to yourboundaries conversation what are
you willing to give up and whatare you not willing to give up?
Because it is a collaboration,there will be areas where you
need to give up some of thatcontrol and as entrepreneurs,
like you mentioned, like we workfor ourselves, we're not used
to giving up control because wedon't have to.
So when you are working withsomeone, what is that?
(45:02):
What are you going to?
What are you not willing to?
Speaker 1 (45:06):
Yeah, you're at your.
You're very right.
In my previous business, I hada business partner.
Yeah, you're very right.
In my previous business, I hada business partner, and one of
the things I had to learn isthat he doesn't do things the
same way I do, and at first itdrove me bonkers, and at the end
of the day I just had to sortof step back and say is he
getting the work done?
Yes, is he doing a good job?
(45:27):
Yes, so if he does itdifferently from you, just back
off and let him do what he'sdoing.
And that's hard for a lot of uswhen we are used to working on
our own.
We want everybody else to workthe way we do, but at the end of
the day, he was doing his workand he was doing a really good
job of it.
So who's the one with theproblem?
It's me, not him.
(45:51):
So, yes, what about thepositives, though?
Like, what have you gotten outof this?
That has been a nice pleasantsurprise for you, or maybe not
even a surprise, but just great.
Speaker 2 (46:02):
So I got a partner to work with and I work with
clients, but to get someonewho's you're not working for
you're working with is a reallynice breath of fresh air like
someone who can bounce ideas offof for marketing, someone who
can go go through and edit mywork because I can ramble.
(46:29):
That has been amazing.
There's so many benefits toworking with someone.
I'm very excited and like hercontribution and I've learned so
much from her.
It's just been unreal.
I'm extremely happy with howthings have turned out.
Speaker 1 (46:49):
It is, it's nice, and one of the things you mentioned
that was my favorite thingabout having a business partner
is just not feeling like you'remaking every decision on your
own, that it 100% rests on yourshoulders and just, yeah, that
ability to bounce ideas offanother person because it can be
lonely working on your own, youknow.
So just being able to andyou're stuck in your box.
(47:12):
Yes, yes, absolutely.
Sometimes you just need to saysomething out loud and have the
other person go.
Yeah, that's a good idea, butwhat if we kind of did this?
You know, like you, just theiteration that happens when you
are working with somebody oftenwinds up taking you further than
you would have got on your own.
(47:32):
So I really liked that partabout having a business partner
or collaborating with someone.
I think it just also gets yourcreative juices going in a way
that wouldn't have happenedbefore.
Yeah, so out of thiscollaboration.
This is not your firstcollaboration and you may have
(47:54):
others down the road.
So what are some of the thelessons that you've learned
about collaborating?
Like if, if, if our listenersare out there thinking like this
is something they want to doand I know they do, because we
hear about it and are ponderingtheir own collaboration.
We hear about it and arepondering their own
collaboration.
(48:14):
What are some of the thingsthat you would tell them to
watch out for and but alsoembrace, I guess, in the whole
process before they take thatplunge?
Speaker 2 (48:24):
So what I would look for is someone who has the same
values but not the same business.
So, for example, I'm a stylist.
I wouldn't collaborate withanother stylist for direct
competitors.
It doesn't make sense, right?
But find someone who has thesame values and the same ideal
customer.
I would definitely watch outfor how much time it's going to
(48:47):
take, is going to take you atleast two times longer than you
think, because because you areworking with someone else now,
so it's not just oh, I think I'mgoing to throw this up on
Instagram, have theconsideration to show it to your
partner and say hey, can youlook this over?
Are you comfortable with this?
On my own personal marketing,on my own personal marketing, I
(49:16):
am more outspoken and like justcasual, um, because I want
people to feel like they know me.
Right is, uh, has isn't likecertified dietitian and
nutritionist.
She speaks with a much moreprofessional type of cadence and
language, so I've edited reelsfor me that meet her voice as
well, and we're collaboratingthat way.
So it's going to take longerjust because of the back and
forth.
And another thing that I wouldprobably do going forward is to
(49:40):
get that contract, at least anemail back and forth that says
this is what we agree on.
Can you please respond to thisemail saying yes, if you don't
want a formal contract?
and then do it, because just doit when we spend so much time
thinking about doing things andthen we want to be perfect and
then we wait, and then we don'tlaunch version one, and if
(50:03):
you're not a little bitembarrassed about version one
when you're on version 15, thenyou waited too long.
Speaker 1 (50:10):
That's really good advice, actually, because, yes,
just a big yes to that.
Yeah, yeah, if you don't lookback at your early work and
cringe, then you're not reallygrowing, are you?
And like you never I haven'theard it worded that way.
(50:31):
But yeah, you started too late,you waited too long.
That's, that's really.
That's really good advice Onthat note going forward.
So where can people find you onboth on your own website and
also on the collaboration thatyou've done with Jen?
(50:51):
Where can they find you online?
Speaker 2 (50:55):
So everything is super simple.
It's just my name, rebecca RoweRowe, r-o-w-e, dot C-A.
It's my Instagram, it's mywebsite and you can find the
collaboration with me and Jenright there on my website.
Speaker 1 (51:06):
Awesome, and we will put links to all of this in the
show notes for everyone whowants to find you.
You also had a generous offerfor our listeners.
I've lost my spreadsheet.
Yes, so for all of youlistening, if you head over to
(51:29):
Rebecca's website, which isRebeccaRoweca, she is offering
up a 25% off discount off of anyof the books on her website,
which includes a style journalto help you work through your
fashion blocks and navigate thehuman experience.
Oh, and you mentioned that'sactually written with a teenage
(51:50):
audience in mind, so that's kindof interesting too, because
teenagers are fraught with whatto wear and how we look and all
of that.
So use the code ASLU atcheckout and you'll get your 25%
discount on that.
Thank you very much, rebecca.
That was very nice of you to dothat for our audience.
Yes, and thank you so much forbeing here today and sharing
(52:16):
this with you.
I know collaboration issomething that is like I said.
We talk about it a lot on theshow, we hear about it a lot in
our circles and with ourlisteners, and I hope this gives
people that little impetus tokind of get out there and see
what's out there and what theycould potentially do with
somebody else, because it reallydoes.
(52:38):
It really gets your creativejuices going.
It's just another way to kindof satisfy that little urge that
we all have to build somethingnew, which I think is very
creative and also veryentrepreneurial at the same time
.
So, yeah, it makes it all back.
So, yes, thank you so much forbeing here this week.
Thank you, appreciate it All.
Right, everyone.
(52:58):
That is it for this week.
We'll be back in another twoweeks with another brand new
episode and we will talk to youall then.
Thanks for listening.
Thank you so much for joiningus for the and she Looked Up
Creative Hour.
If you're looking for links orresources mentioned in this
(53:18):
episode, you can find detailedshow notes on our website at
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(53:38):
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(01:03):
And now let's get on with theshow.
Welcome to the and she Looked Uppodcast.
Each week we sit down withinspiring Canadian women who
create for a living.
(01:24):
We talk about their creativejourneys and their best business
tips, as well as the creativeand business mindset issues all
creative entrepreneurs strugglewith.
I'm your host, melissaHartfield, and after leaving a
20-year career in corporateretail, I've been happily
self-employed for 12 years.
I'm a graphic designer, anillustrator and a
multi-six-figure-a-yearentrepreneur in the digital
(01:46):
content space.
This podcast is for the artists, the makers and the creatives
who want to find a way to make aliving doing what they love.
Hello everyone, and welcome toanother episode of the and she
Looked Up podcast.
As always, I'm your host,melissa, and this week I'm
(02:10):
really looking forward towelcoming Rebecca Rowe to the
podcast.
Hi Rebecca, hi Melissa, greatto have you here.
For those of you who may not befamiliar with Rebecca, she is a
classically trained fashiondesigner and a personal stylist
and declutter expert who focuseson helping women find their
personal style that she believeslives in their existing closets
(02:34):
.
Isn't that nice to know thatour style is already there?
By letting go of what no longerserves them, through fashion
psychology, she's able to helpher clients tackle their blocks
and leave with a clean closetand a great relationship with
(02:54):
our clothes.
And isn't that what we all want?
It's make our morning easierwhen we get up and have to make
those decisions.
So Rebecca is here today we'regoing to be talking a little bit
about her story, but we're alsogoing to be talking about
collaboration, because she's hada little bit of an interesting
take on that, and I think one ofthe things that a lot of
(03:17):
creatives stumble with when itcomes to collaborating with
other creatives is not knowingwhere to start or not realizing
that they don't have tocollaborate with somebody who
does exactly what they do.
So we're going to be talking alittle bit about that today, but
before we get into that,rebecca, the first question I
ask everyone who comes on theshow is did you feel like you
(03:38):
were creative as a kid?
Speaker 2 (03:41):
I did feel creative as a kid, um, but I'm not sure
if I felt creative or if I wastold I was creative, and this is
interesting way of growing up,because I was good at visual
arts, painting I always wasdoing something with my hands,
and so I guess you could callthat creative um, and I enjoyed
(04:02):
it.
But I was always told oh you,oh, you're so talented, you're
so talented, you're so creative.
So I think I took on a bit ofthat personality from a really
young age and started toassociate myself with those
words and then, as I grew up, Istarted discovering what
creativity means to me, and theterm has changed a little bit
(04:24):
since when I was a kid.
Speaker 1 (04:25):
Oh, okay, so how?
What does it mean to you?
Speaker 2 (04:29):
So for me, especially in business, I always think of
an entrepreneur as a creative,because we have to think in
creative ways Most of the time.
I actually most like almostalways.
The way that we get to ourgoals is not linear.
It's not the same way, and sowe're constantly problem solving
and creating new answers tovery simple questions, and
(04:54):
that's what I really considercreative and how I would
describe myself as a creative.
Now it's like I'm more of acreative problem solver.
My brain thinks in a creativeway, but I no longer
specifically draw orspecifically paint.
Does that make sense?
Speaker 1 (05:10):
It totally makes sense.
I totally agree with you.
I think entrepreneurship is Ithink all careers have creative
elements to it where creativethinking is an asset.
So and I think we're allcreative at heart, so I don't
really believe that there is anon-creative career.
I think we can always add somecreativity to whatever it is
(05:32):
that we do.
But you wound up as aclassically trained fashion
designer, so obviously youstarted down that very
traditional creative path.
What was it that took you thatdirection?
Did it like were you drawingclothes in school or like where
(05:52):
was it?
How did you tell us your path?
Speaker 2 (05:57):
um, so you're gonna laugh.
Okay now I know that we're bothon a podcast and I know that
people in their cars are notseeing this, but I am six foot
one and I've been six foot onesince I was about 15, so
creating clothes really became apassion, because I didn't have
anything available to me right.
Um, when I was 15, I waswearing maternity clothes
because I needed the length andI wanted that long, uh tank top
(06:20):
underneath your baby tee.
Speaker 1 (06:21):
Look, that's how old I am guys, we're just gonna not
judge me and um.
Speaker 2 (06:26):
So I started thinking about clothes and I started
thinking about why we didn'twear clothes, and I was getting
really creative in findinganswers to this problem.
The problem was I was notfitting into the clothing that
my friends were wearing.
I wanted to wear those clothes.
What can I do?
And then I discovered the men'ssection, and then I discovered
the maternity section, like Imentioned, and then I was like
there has to be a better way and.
(06:48):
I started sewing, I starteddrawing clothing, but really I
started sewing and puttingtogether these what I would call
puzzles, which ended up beingclothing.
Um, when you think aboutclothing, it is actually just a
3d puzzle, and it's somethingthat's uh always been
interesting to me is the patternmaking, which is uh kind of
like the building blocks of anyclothing piece interesting okay
(07:13):
so that's how I got into it didyou?
Speaker 1 (07:16):
did you have like a sewing background, or was it
like grade eight, home ec, or Idon't know?
Do they still do sewing in homeec?
I was the last grade to gothrough where it was only girls
who did sewing, but I think theystill had Home Ec available.
So did you have to teachyourself how to sew, or was that
something?
Speaker 2 (07:34):
you just figured out, I was homeschooled, so I didn't
go to school until I was ingrade 11 and 12.
I did a visual arts program ingrade 11 and 12.
But before then.
So when I first started sewing,um, my grandmother taught me
how to sew and when she gotfrustrated she gave me a roll of
duct tape and she said figureit out, put it together.
And uh, so I was putting thingstogether with duct tape, but I
(07:58):
took some sewing classes just atlocal um fabric stores in in
Ottawa and they're the ones whotaught me how to sew.
And then I went to school, asyou mentioned before,
classically trained.
So I went to school in New Yorkand I went to school in Paris
and they really honed in mysewing skills.
Speaker 1 (08:16):
Nice.
So, yeah, new York and Paris Ithink a lot of us think of those
as fashion capitals.
So that must have been a prettyexciting experience at that age
to be in the thick of thatworld.
So after you finished school,you must have had a few
different options.
You could have gone and workedfor a fashion house or for a
(08:40):
label or something along thoselines.
But it sounds like you wentyour own path, or was there a
step in between there?
Speaker 2 (08:50):
I.
So I finished, uh, I graduatedfashion school, uh, in Paris is
where I got my certificate.
Um, I'm probably saying thatwrong, it's been so long.
Um, and I came home to Ottawagovernment town in capital
Canada, and I was like, oh,there's going to be jobs for
(09:11):
fashion designers here.
No, no, there's not.
There wasn't.
I'm sure there is now.
But so I got home, startedworking as a server and I said
no, no, no, no, no.
I did not spend the amount ofmoney I spent on my education to
for this.
So, within a year of being homeand I had a few friends who had
(09:35):
known, I went to fashion schooland they offered me a spot in
what was called Capital Catwalk.
Um, it was a charity catwalkand and I was like you know what
, let's make a collection.
Within six months I made acollection.
I showed my first collectionand then I started selling my
collection and I've been workingin the fashion industry since.
Speaker 1 (09:55):
So you started out self employed pretty early.
Speaker 2 (09:58):
Then like I took around that I've never had a
real job.
Speaker 1 (10:04):
I don't think you're the only one who listens to this
podcast who would say that, soI think we can all relate to
that.
But so there must have been alittle bit of an entrepreneurial
streak in you.
From the get go, you obviouslywere like I'm going to do this,
I'm going to make it happen formyself.
If there's no jobs here, I'llmake a job.
So it felt safer.
(10:24):
Yes, I totally get that, andyou're the first person I've had
on the show who has said that.
But I remember when I quit myjob to become self employed, I
didn't feel safe in a corporateenvironment.
I felt like I could be let goat any moment, or somebody in a
corner office could look at aspreadsheet and say, yeah, she's
gone and not even know who Iwas.
(10:45):
And I just thought, if I'm incharge, I get to be in control
of my career, and that feltsafer to me.
But I know it's not like thatfor everyone.
So I totally get that.
Speaker 2 (10:59):
It's the mindset of you can always make more money
If you're creative.
There's 101 different ways thatyou can make money and if you
need to, I promise you you willgo out and find a way to make
money, whether it's you sellanother piece for me it was
selling clothing.
Or when I started styling, itwas because people were asking
(11:21):
me to go through their closetsbecause I had good style.
I was like, okay, great, I can,I can charge money for this.
Now I have another streamcoming towards me.
So, because I was in control oflike you said, like of
everything, and not just anumber on a spreadsheet that
goes you're expensive.
Speaker 1 (11:38):
Next, exactly, it felt safer yeah, no, I, I
totally get that and, like Isaid, you're the first person
who's been on the show who'sactually said that.
So, yeah, I completely agreewith you.
You mentioned in your bio onyour website that you're a
designer with a message, andwhile you're not actively
(12:00):
designing at this point, whatwas the message that you felt
you had to share with the worldthrough your clothes?
Speaker 2 (12:10):
So when I first started my clothing brand and it
has kind of the message isstill there it's always that
your personal style is in yourcloset and when I was creating
clothes it was I had created anew size guide.
That was the message reallythat I wanted to get into is
that the clothing themselves canbe wrong.
Your body is inherently notwrong, so no matter what
(12:33):
whatever's in your closetcurrently either can fit, will
fit or it's time to go right.
Um, and I really wanted to getthat through to people is that,
by nature of the fact that wewould never say a sunflower is
too yellow, your body cannot bewrong, no matter what anyone
else is saying.
So the clothing that is manmadeand often very quickly manmade
(12:58):
and designed to fit a fewmillion people, they can be
wrong.
So I wanted people to feelreally beautiful and feel really
confident, whatever that lookedlike for them, because beauty
changes depending on how yougrew up, what you value, etc.
Etc.
Etc.
But I really wanted it to makesure that it was customized to
(13:20):
what their values were and fitthe body that they were trying
to, uh, to live in, awesome thatthey are living in yes, just I
think that's a struggle that somany of us have is just feeling
like you wake up and our bodieschange as we get older and
things happen.
Speaker 1 (13:37):
And just, I literally just had this conversation with
a friend the other day abouthow, as you get older, even
though our weight the number onthe scale hasn't changed,
nothing fits Like just sort ofhappened overnight.
Everything in our closetdoesn't fit because the the
everything where all the weightsits, has shifted.
(13:58):
It's in different spots now andit's so frustrating and you get
so you start to feel a littlebit down on yourself and it's uh
, so to have somebody who comesalong and says that no, no, it's
not you, it's those in yourcloset.
So you've gone beyond designingat this point, um, and you're
(14:19):
doing other things.
So let's talk a little bitabout that.
And one of the first thingsthat you mentioned that you went
and did as a new offshoot um,from what you were originally
doing is working as a personalstylist.
So you mentioned that you hadfriends who were starting to ask
you um, hey, can you help meout?
(14:39):
Um, because don't we all wishwe had that friend, right?
Speaker 2 (14:43):
Exactly.
And then as soon as you findthat friend and you find out
that they're doing it, you knowyou start doing it.
So I had a couple of friendsthat were like, oh, can you help
me with the styling?
Can you help me, like,declutter my closet?
I have so many things in mycloset and you're so good at
putting things together, can youhelp me?
I said sure, no-transcript,throw some gasoline on the
(15:35):
styling and see what happens.
And next thing you know, I was,I've been booked ever since.
I changed my website a littlebit, took the clothing off,
obviously, but I've been bookedever since because I realized
(15:55):
that this is a really bigproblem is that people are
overwhelmed going into theircloset a lot of the times, and
that's the main feeling I thinkthat I've witnessed is that
these women are like I have allof these clothes and I've been.
I've been told that they lookgood.
I don't know how to wear them.
They don't really feel.
Feel like me.
Should I keep wearing them eventhough they look good, but I
don't like them?
So it's really a bigconversation and that's where
the fashion psychology comes in,because it's not just about
(16:17):
wearing something that looksgood, it's also about feeling
good.
Um, and there's so much thatcomes into that, right?
Uh, I mentioned before, likeI'm six foot one, I have no
problem wearing something that'sa little bit more revealing,
because men don't come up to me.
I worked as a server, as Imentioned, and for years I was
(16:42):
hey man, because I'm lookingdown at them when they talk.
Speaker 1 (16:46):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (16:47):
And to all of my friends who were there you know
they're smaller than me, hey,baby girl, oh, interesting.
And so their relationship withhow they chose to present
themselves was very differentthan how I can choose to present
myself, present myself, becausethe way that we grew up, the
way that in those formativeyears we had nicknames, that
changed based on who we are as aperson, how we presented
(17:09):
ourselves, what people instantlythought about.
And so that's where I go intothose conversations now with
these women who are, you know,they're out of the serving
industry or they're out of thisand they're into a new part of
their life, and I say great.
So you know, you don't likewearing pink.
Why not?
Pink looks amazing on you.
Oh well, my ex-boyfriend likedit on me and I hate him.
Okay, cool.
(17:30):
Well, let's not wear pink.
Then I'm not as colorist.
I think that the color seasonsare stupid.
To be quite honest, I'm notgoing to lie.
If you want me to do your coloranalysis, I'll be like look at
yourself in the mirror.
The one that you smile in isthe color that you like.
Oh, I love that, yeah yes youdon't need to pay me four
hundred dollars.
I'm gonna tell you for free onthis podcast.
(17:52):
You look at yourself in themirror and you like the, and
you're smiling in a color.
It's the color that looks goodon you, period, and it's going
to change because, as youmentioned, as we get older, our
yeah.
But if you still love green andit makes you smile wear the
green, and so that's how thebusiness progressed and changed,
and I've since been hired to doworkshops and talks because I
(18:15):
don't see styling as somethingthat should be unattainable.
I see it as a skill that peopledeserve to learn yeah, that's.
Speaker 1 (18:27):
We never really think of it as a skill, do we?
But you're right, that's, yeah,it's a skill.
So so when you made this pivotbecause I think also a lot of
creatives feel like they getstuck in something that they're
known for or that they'rethey're good at and they do well
at, but it's not necessarilylighting the fire anymore and
(18:50):
they'd like to pivot, not wildlyor anything, but do something a
little bit different.
And they're not sure how, orthere's some fear there that it
won't be successful or whatever.
So when you, you obviously hadinterest.
You had people, friends andthings coming to you.
But when you decided to pivot,what did you do from like a
(19:11):
business standpoint, to getyourself out there?
Or was it completely word ofmouth?
Speaker 2 (19:16):
Like were you, did you change up how you marketed,
or I drastically changed mymarketing and I went hard with
almost everything.
Imagine you're starting yourbusiness from scratch because
the clients who have beenworking with you for a certain
(19:36):
type of product or service andif you decide to change, they're
going to still ask you for thatproduct your ideal customer and
you're going to want to shiftyour messaging and get very
clear with what you do offer,which means and now this is hard
for creatives, I know I'm oneof them really hard boundaries.
(19:59):
Yeah, this is what I do, thisis what I don't do.
I was, in hindsight, luckyenough to have a flood that
completely destroyed my business.
Right, there was no oh, can youjust make me this?
I had no patterns, I had nofabric, I had nothing.
I barely had a sewing machine.
(20:19):
So the answer was no, Iliterally can't.
But when you still have theability and someone's asking you
for it and you're like, oh, butthat you know 500 bucks would
be really good right now, youhave to say no, yeah, and you
have to go hard with what you'retrying to say, what you're
(20:42):
trying to sell, and the mainthing that I see with creatives
in this space is sell me, selllike, don't allude to it.
Oh, I'm starting something new.
I'm starting something new.
You want it because of this.
And here's where you buy it.
Yeah, like, make it idiot proof, and that is the easiest way,
(21:05):
and it's terrifying.
And the first time you postthat reel on Instagram or TikTok
or whatever and you go no, andthen you walk away from your
phone and you're like, nope, butyou did it.
And if you did it once, you cando it again.
Speaker 1 (21:19):
Yeah, I think you kind of hit the nail there where
you said, oh, if I do this,it's an extra $500, because how,
like?
I think that's part of thescary part is there's always
this underlying current thatit's hard to earn a living as a
creative.
So if you are earning a livingas a creative and you're making
money and things are going well,that thought of pivoting to
(21:41):
something different but stillcreative, like what if the money
doesn't come in?
And I think there's that fearof like what if the money
doesn't come in?
And and I think there's thatfear.
So when, when these littleopportunities come up from your
past passion uh, it's it is sohard to say no like, especially
(22:03):
when you're not sure when thenext paycheck is going to land
in your bank account.
Speaker 2 (22:05):
So, oh, I was going to say, and like this just goes
back to the first, very one ofthe first things we said is like
you can always make more money.
So if you change into this newbusiness and you're like no hard
boundary, this is what I'mdoing, I've pivoted.
And then people keep asking youor for other things.
Go back and say what am I doing?
(22:30):
Because if I'm being drawn tothese things, am I being drawn
to the proposal because of themoney.
If I need $500, what can I doin my business right now to earn
me $500?
Speaker 1 (22:38):
Yeah, actually, and for those of you listening,
heather and I did an episode wayback, I think in season one or
season two, I can't remember onwhat you could do to earn $100
in your business today and everyday, and it's a really
interesting exercise to gothrough, regardless of what it
is that you do.
But just to think to yourself,what could I do to earn $100
right now, doing what I love todo, and when you sort of think
(23:02):
of it from that perspective,making $100 is not that hard.
It's not a lot of money today,right, like a hundred dollars.
Doesn't even buy your groceriesat this point.
So, um, you know, what couldyou do to earn a hundred dollars
today?
And so that's an interestingthing to think about.
If you're thinking out therethat you'd like to pivot, so how
(23:24):
could you make that firsthundred dollars in your pivot?
And how do you make the secondhundred dollars and just keep
pushing along?
Speaker 2 (23:31):
because you save that episode on how to make a
hundred dollars and then everytime you want to say, sure you
know what you go.
Nope, let me put my headphoneson.
Listen to melissa I still.
Speaker 1 (23:41):
I go back and listen to it myself, because every now
and then I need that reminder.
I pivoted about two years agoand it's like there's days where
I just need to go back and hearit.
So, yeah, absolutely when you,when you made the decision to
pivot, though, like, how did youget the word out beyond the
(24:02):
people who you were alreadyworking with?
Like, did you, were you rampingup your social media?
Were you hitting up your emaillist?
Like, what did you do to youramping up your social media?
Were you hitting up your emaillist?
Like, what did you do to kindof get the word out there?
Speaker 2 (24:13):
Yes, so I did, um, I kickstarted my Instagram by
posting 30 reels like in 30 days, um, really, with very specific
hashtags.
So I was telling Instagram I aman Ottawa stylist and I didn't
really care about anything else.
(24:34):
Like, the point was, who am Itrying to target?
What am I doing?
So?
Styling tips, the lettingthings go how that feels,
because you know, every time yougo through a closet purge then
you think, oh well, what aboutthat top?
No, that's buyers remorse,we're gonna let that one go.
Um, so I just everything I couldthink of went into instagram
(24:57):
and I went, sent out an email tomy existing clients telling
them the truth hey, my businessis on fire, or actually it's
underwater underwater.
If you are not interested inthe type of content that I will
be producing from now, here isthe unsubscribe button.
I'm asking you to respectfullyleave because I'm no longer
(25:18):
selling clothing.
If you were only here forclothing, there's nothing I can
really do.
Here are some other people thatyou can go to.
So I cleared out my email list,which, I'm not gonna lie, it is
a terrifying number.
When you see the email numbersgo down and you're like it's
going to be fine because my openrate is really high, my open
rate is really high, my openrate is really high.
And then I went to otherbusinesses who were
(25:41):
complimentary to me.
Part of one of my services is Itake women shopping and I love
taking women to small boutiqueswhere they can find something
that is super unique.
And so I went around to thosebusinesses and they asked me for
my cards.
So now I think there's threebusinesses in Ottawa, in the
(26:01):
downtown core we're all locallyowned who have my cards.
So when women come in and say,oh, I don't know what looks good
on me, what should I do?
You need Rebecca?
Because also they say this isnot my job, I am not a therapist
, you need to, but they, but nowthey're selling for me also and
and I take clients to theirstores because they have amazing
(26:24):
pieces.
So yeah, it's a very symbiotic,very win, win.
Speaker 1 (26:28):
Yes, and you know we talk about this a lot on the
podcast, about how you need togo outside and talk to people.
Speaker 2 (26:38):
Go to networking events and do the things.
Speaker 1 (26:40):
Yeah.
So you know, I mean, those kindof relationships don't happen
easily on social media.
So if you go out and you makethe first step and you're
walking into a business who isgoing to benefit from what you
can bring to them at the sametime as you're benefiting from
what they can bring to you, soit's a win-win.
(27:01):
And when you can kind ofapproach it like that and
present it like that, people aremore willing to listen to what
it is that you're trying to sayto them.
Speaker 2 (27:11):
So use the relationships you have.
So if it's, if there's a localcoffee shop and you go there
anyway, tell the barista thatyou talk to every day.
Oh, you know, I'm starting thisnew business.
That barista sees what Ahundred people a day Easily.
Yeah, that's someone who'smarketing for you.
Oh, that's awesome.
(27:31):
Do you want to put your card upon our flyer board?
Amazing.
It doesn't have to be somethingthat's like specifically in
your niche to get your word outthere.
Speaker 1 (27:42):
Yeah, yeah, I think that's something we forget and
need to be reminded of, becauseyou never know who somebody is
connected to, Right, yeah, soit's always worth just
mentioning it.
If somebody asks you what youdo, you know when we talk about
the elevator pitch and all thatstuff, but it's, it's.
We talk about it because itworks.
(28:03):
It works when somebody asks youwhat you do.
If you're able to actually tellthem what it is that you do.
You just you never.
There's a commercial goingaround.
It's so, so silly.
I saw it on TV the other nightthese two women in an elevator
talking about buying a house orsomething and the woman behind
them pops out and she's like myson is a realtor and he's a
fitness coach and he sellssupplements and she's just
(28:25):
handing out all these businesscards and I'm like that's,
that's what you gotta do so yeah, it's, um it's.
It can be a little scarysometimes going outside.
I know I don't like it, but um,it's honestly how I think some
of the best opportunities cometo us.
Speaker 2 (28:45):
So, um everyone you gotta go outside and it's scary,
so put on a character yes,isn't that what beyonce does?
Sasha fierce yeah I put onserver becks, which is the
person that you know wasprobably serving you when I was
in my early 20s and I go hi, howare you?
My name's rebecca.
I'll be taking care of you, butI with uh it is.
Speaker 1 (29:08):
I'm a stylist.
It's a little uh switch thatyou need to flick when you walk
out the door that you are um.
We had another guest on who isa journalist, who is who's uh,
one of the quietest, um, moreintroverted people that I know.
But she said my notebook, myjournalist notebook that I carry
, is my shield.
(29:28):
When I have that notebook, Iturn into a journalist and
that's her.
That's the switch for her.
So I think we all need to findour switch.
Really, what it comes down tois what is that thing that makes
it easy for you to walk out thedoor and do that?
Speaker 2 (29:45):
The easy part is a costume.
So if you put on a single pairof heels or a certain blazer and
have that be your networkingoutfit, it can become a trigger
for your mind to go oh, ok, yeah, I'm ready to go now that kind
(30:11):
of thing can be like yeah, so,speaking of collaboration,
that's one of the things we weregoing to talk about today and
you, you've branched out inother ways.
Speaker 1 (30:16):
So you're, you're working as a personal stylist,
you're also helping womendeclutter their closets, which
kind of goes hand in hand withbeing a stylist, but you have
also started anothercollaboration with somebody who
is in a completely differentniche with you, a nutritionist.
So how tell us a little bit,first of all, about what it is
(30:39):
that you and Jen, I believe itis are doing and how that came
about?
Speaker 2 (30:46):
so I'm collaborating with Jen from Nutrition IQ so
her Instagram handle isNutrition IQ and she is an
anti-diet nutritionist.
And that's the first thing thatI was like all right, I like
you.
What's going on here?
Because, as we mentioned before, clothing is so entwined with
(31:08):
your body image that it seems tome to work pretty well together
.
So I actually worked with Jen,as she was a client of mine and
we were going through her closetand we became friends.
I really like the way that sheapproached food and she
approached clothing as a tool tohelp aid your body image, and
(31:30):
that's exactly what I do.
But I don't have a nutritionistbackground.
So she's actually the one whocame to me and said hey, I want
to do an online course.
Would you be interested incollaborating?
And here I was being likeabsolutely not, how am I going
to do an online course talkingabout clothes?
This makes no sense.
But she was like no, I think itwould be good, because then you
(31:50):
can explain your theories andthought processes to a bigger
audience.
So I took a second and, sureenough, we developed a course
together.
So she actually does.
The first part of the course isall about nutrition and
understanding what your bodyneeds, and then you get into my
part of the course, which iswhere I illustrate how to
(32:14):
therefore take care of your bodyin a different way from the
external, but in close on, andit is a very interesting
collaboration.
We just did a bunch ofmarketing for it like some
content, and the two of ustogether are just.
It's very like we're opposites,like she's small, I'm tall and
(32:35):
we have the same idea, and thething is is like when you're
looking for a collaboration,you're looking to meet the same
ideal customer.
So her ideal customer is a womanwho doesn't feel comfortable in
her own skin, and I would saythe same.
We're just coming at it from adifferent perspective.
And when we can get to thatlevel of body neutrality, we're
(32:56):
not.
I'm not saying that you have tolove your body Nobody loves
their body all the time but ifyou can get to the point where
you can say this is what it is,how, what can we do to move
forward and what can I do tofeel good right now?
This is what it is.
How can, what can we do to moveforward and what can I do to
feel good right now?
Which is the same form messagethat she had, and that's the way
that I think any collaborationneeds to work.
(33:16):
Is that one?
You need to be trying to talkto the same person, because that
same person probably has morethan one problem.
Um, and make sure that you guysboth have the same overall
theory and values.
Speaker 1 (33:32):
Yeah, yes, I think that's a big one that we don't
think about just when you,whether it's a collaboration, a
short-term collaboration, soit's a one project, or whether
you're bringing on a businesspartner or you're teaming up
with a friend, it's the thingthat I think is going to make
things as smooth as possible foryou is if you are on the same
(33:54):
page, like values wise, whichand it doesn't really matter
what your values are, it justmatters that you are in sync
with them, because I think allyour core arguments are going to
come from having differentvalue systems.
So it's very much like amarriage in some ways.
You know, just if those corevalues are out of sync, it's
(34:16):
really hard to be able to moveforward.
So, now that you've startedthis you mentioned it's an
online course, so that issomething very different for you
.
How did you guys go together?
How did you put that together?
Was that something Actually?
Let's back up.
So you've got two differentpeople with two very different
(34:37):
careers coming together to workon this project.
That at first might sound alittle odd, but when you explain
it, it makes total sense.
Like, of course, why would younot work together?
But how did you decide whowould do what?
Like when she approached youand so you know what were the
questions you were thinking inyour head, like what is it I'm
(34:59):
going to do, or who's going todo all the work?
That kind of thing.
How did you decide how todistribute the workload?
Speaker 2 (35:09):
So we're lucky enough to live in the same city, so
the first thing that we did waswe met at a coffee shop and we
went through.
Okay, what does our client needfrom us?
How can we provide theinformation that they need to
get the best outcome?
So what outcome are we lookingfor With an online course?
It's obviously a lot ofself-directed work and so we
(35:32):
can't guarantee the work becausewe're not there doing it with
them.
But if everything goes to plan,how?
What are we looking for theoutcome to be?
And so we both decided that wewanted the outcome to be someone
who was the next step forwardwith their body acceptance
journey.
So, with food, with clothingthey wanted.
(35:54):
Her idea was I want them to gointo a restaurant and not think
about the calories.
I want them to think about whatdoes my body need, what do I
want?
What will I enjoy?
And for me it was I want thesame thing.
I want them to go in theircloset in this morning, in the
in the morning, thinking, great,I'm going to put on this
because it's going to feel goodon my body.
Great, we both have outcomesthat we were going for.
(36:16):
And then we really workedbackwards.
Um, I went into.
I don't want to talk about bodyshape because I don't think it
matters as much as proportionmatters.
So I was.
There was a couple of thingsthat I was like I'm very adamant
that this needs to be coveredin the course, because it's not
covered anywhere else.
You can go on Pinterest andfind a here's what your body
(36:38):
type, here's what fruit you bestrepresent.
Yes, exactly.
And I'm like I've never seen awoman walk around looking like a
pear or an apple or an apple.
Makes no bloody sense, whereas,like, men get actual shapes and
you're here a rectangle, I'mlike that makes more sense.
Anyway, we're going to talkabout that on the podcast um so
(37:00):
I wanted to talk aboutproportion.
She wanted to talk aboutgrieving the thin ideal great.
So then we came up with aseries of chapters that we each
wanted them to go through andthen we individually filmed
content.
So we each made um slide decksthat we then recorded um.
(37:20):
I recorded in canva, sherecorded in zoom and then we put
them together on a platform.
Now it did have to be on herplatform because she has a um
nutritionist only platform,because we are talking about um,
some medical oh yeah, yeah.
So if anyone comes with any sortof um allergies or medications
(37:42):
or things that they need to havea bit more in-depth
conversation with, we wanted tomake sure that all of their
information was covered and safeto give.
So we chose to use her platform.
However, there there's amillion course platform.
So if you are thinking aboutrunning a course, use the one
that's best suited to you.
And then we got together, likeI said a couple of days ago, and
(38:03):
we came up with a shootingschedule for more content.
So it's really been acollaboration where we are
taking the workload on 50-50.
Both of us popping into thechat to make sure that if anyone
has any questions, we cananswer them accordingly.
Some people have more questionsabout style, some people have
more questions about specificnutrition.
(38:23):
Obviously, I can't answer andwe just play off of each other.
Speaker 1 (38:28):
Yeah answer and we just play off with each other.
Yeah, and I guess, from amarketing perspective, you've
both got your own separateaudiences um that you can bring
to this.
But are you doing likecoordinated marketing attempts,
like, have you, have you set upa separate social media for this
or are you just using your ownindividual accounts to?
Speaker 2 (38:51):
just using our own individual and then we're using
the uh invite collaborativecollaboration uh function on
instagram.
So as soon as she accepts theinvite, uh, the same reel pops
up on her instagram.
So if I edit it together, itwill pop up on Awesome.
Speaker 1 (39:11):
I think there's a lot of people out there who would
love to collaborate.
I see this all the time inFacebook groups.
We hear it from the people wetalk to through the podcast is I
want to collaborate, but Idon't know how.
I don't know how to findsomebody to collaborate with.
I don't know like what should Ibe thinking about all of these
questions?
And sometimes find somebody tocollaborate with I don't know
(39:31):
like what should I be thinkingabout All of these questions?
And sometimes they want tocollaborate with an influencer
who can help them get their workout into the world.
Sometimes they actually want todevelop something new with,
like a true businesscollaboration.
So when you were going throughthis process, like you said, you
met Jen.
You helped her with her closet,you became friends, friends and
(39:51):
you had similar value systems.
So was that what?
Like told you like this, thisis, this is a good person.
Like I feel good about this.
Um, I think someone, this issomeone I can really work with
for me with this specificproject.
Speaker 2 (40:05):
Yeah, it was a lot of .
I like the way that she works.
I've seen her work, um, and Iknow that we'll work well
together.
I'm comfortable doing acollaboration with this.
I feel like this will actuallyyield to results.
I've also done collaborationswith influencers and I've done
collaborations with othercompanies or other businesses.
(40:26):
Um, the one thing I will sayabout working with an influencer
is that they are a spotlight.
So if you're not ready for aspotlight, if all of your
funnels and all of your emailsand all of if something that on
your end, is not ready forgasoline, then don't throw
gasoline on it.
Um, it will, because they justshine a spotlight.
(40:49):
They say to their audience hey,check out this product, um, and
you need to be ready to be likegreat, here's all of the things
.
I need you into my orbit Now.
You are now my person, yes, sodo you have your collection
ready to go?
That, as soon as thisinfluencer posts you're ready
with, hey, and give me youremail, let's sign this up.
(41:10):
This is obviously something youwant from me.
Uh, check out my website.
It's cleaned up and ready to golike, do you have all of those?
Um, but if you're working withsomeone on a project, it's the
same as going back to school,right, like, first of all, are
you being realistic with howmuch time it's going to take?
Because it's going to take moretime than you think, yes, and
(41:31):
give yourself a, like, a runway.
So we actually this is oursecond time marketing this
course um, the first one we didwas a very soft launch.
We wanted to work out any kinks, so we offered, you know, a
early bird discount and now thatwe have those kings worked out,
we're very confident in sayinglike this is a good course and
(41:55):
everyone who's taken it so farhas gotten a lot out of it.
It's succeeded in both of our umobjectives.
And so here we go be preparedto run it more than once.
Like you said before, this is amarriage.
We're in it for the long haul,jen, like, if you're listening.
So you know you can't expectall the work to be on somebody
(42:18):
else.
You really have to be preparedand say great, here are the
skills that I can bring to thetable and find someone who
compliments you in the other way.
Speaker 1 (42:26):
Yeah, exactly, did you have any kind of formal
agreement in place when youstarted?
Because I know a lot of us whenwe do these things, we do not,
even though we probably should.
But was it just pretty muchlike, yeah, let's do this, and
then you just jumped off?
Speaker 2 (42:51):
if I do have a formal agreement.
So, um, like if I do a workshopwith somebody, then I at least
have an email chain, because aslong as it's um written down
with timestamps, you can use itas a contract.
Speaker 1 (42:57):
Yeah, excuse me.
Yeah, so it's one of thosethings when you're super excited
about something, you don'tnecessarily think about, um,
putting it down on paper oranything like that.
You just want to get moving,you want to.
You're excited about yourproject.
So what have been, um, some ofthe the pleasant surprises about
(43:19):
working with somebody outsideof your business and maybe some
of the challenges that youweren't expecting to pop up.
Speaker 2 (43:29):
The unexpected challenge that I that popped up
was working on someone else'stimeline.
That's always something CauseI'm sure, like myself and like
many other entrepreneurs, wethink that we can do 12 things
in a day and there's only 10slots.
So, um, working on someoneelse's timeline definitely was a
(43:52):
challenge, and it it means thatI have to take a look at myself
too, because of how I react.
I need to make sure that I'mnot getting stressed, or at
least not getting visiblystressed.
I don't want to stress her outby me getting stressed that we
know we don't have enough time,because there's always time.
You just got to take it fromsomewhere else.
Speaker 1 (44:09):
Um, but're in it it doesn't feel like.
Speaker 2 (44:13):
So that was one of the stresses, um and challenges
with working with someone else.
Honestly, with Jen, therewasn't a lot um, a lot of issues
, uh, working together.
But I have worked with otherpeople and other um in the past.
You know where you don't seethings eye to eye and it becomes
a conflict management exercisewhere you're asking yourself you
(44:37):
know, what are you willing togive up?
And that's the thing is.
This goes back to yourboundaries conversation what are
you willing to give up and whatare you not willing to give up?
Because it is a collaboration,there will be areas where you
need to give up some of thatcontrol and as entrepreneurs,
like you mentioned, like we workfor ourselves, we're not used
to giving up control because wedon't have to.
So when you are working withsomeone, what is that?
(45:02):
What are you going to?
What are you not willing to?
Speaker 1 (45:06):
Yeah, you're at your.
You're very right.
In my previous business, I hada business partner.
Yeah, you're very right.
In my previous business, I hada business partner, and one of
the things I had to learn isthat he doesn't do things the
same way I do, and at first itdrove me bonkers, and at the end
of the day I just had to sortof step back and say is he
getting the work done?
Yes, is he doing a good job?
(45:27):
Yes, so if he does itdifferently from you, just back
off and let him do what he'sdoing.
And that's hard for a lot of uswhen we are used to working on
our own.
We want everybody else to workthe way we do, but at the end of
the day, he was doing his workand he was doing a really good
job of it.
So who's the one with theproblem?
It's me, not him.
(45:51):
So, yes, what about thepositives, though?
Like, what have you gotten outof this?
That has been a nice pleasantsurprise for you, or maybe not
even a surprise, but just great.
Speaker 2 (46:02):
So I got a partner to work with and I work with
clients, but to get someonewho's you're not working for
you're working with is a reallynice breath of fresh air like
someone who can bounce ideas offof for marketing, someone who
can go go through and edit mywork because I can ramble.
(46:29):
That has been amazing.
There's so many benefits toworking with someone.
I'm very excited and like hercontribution and I've learned so
much from her.
It's just been unreal.
I'm extremely happy with howthings have turned out.
Speaker 1 (46:49):
It is, it's nice, and one of the things you mentioned
that was my favorite thingabout having a business partner
is just not feeling like you'remaking every decision on your
own, that it 100% rests on yourshoulders and just, yeah, that
ability to bounce ideas offanother person because it can be
lonely working on your own, youknow.
So just being able to andyou're stuck in your box.
(47:12):
Yes, yes, absolutely.
Sometimes you just need to saysomething out loud and have the
other person go.
Yeah, that's a good idea, butwhat if we kind of did this?
You know, like you, just theiteration that happens when you
are working with somebody oftenwinds up taking you further than
you would have got on your own.
(47:32):
So I really liked that partabout having a business partner
or collaborating with someone.
I think it just also gets yourcreative juices going in a way
that wouldn't have happenedbefore.
Yeah, so out of thiscollaboration.
This is not your firstcollaboration and you may have
(47:54):
others down the road.
So what are some of the thelessons that you've learned
about collaborating?
Like if, if, if our listenersare out there thinking like this
is something they want to doand I know they do, because we
hear about it and are ponderingtheir own collaboration.
We hear about it and arepondering their own
collaboration.
(48:14):
What are some of the thingsthat you would tell them to
watch out for and but alsoembrace, I guess, in the whole
process before they take thatplunge?
Speaker 2 (48:24):
So what I would look for is someone who has the same
values but not the same business.
So, for example, I'm a stylist.
I wouldn't collaborate withanother stylist for direct
competitors.
It doesn't make sense, right?
But find someone who has thesame values and the same ideal
customer.
I would definitely watch outfor how much time it's going to
(48:47):
take, is going to take you atleast two times longer than you
think, because because you areworking with someone else now,
so it's not just oh, I think I'mgoing to throw this up on
Instagram, have theconsideration to show it to your
partner and say hey, can youlook this over?
Are you comfortable with this?
On my own personal marketing,on my own personal marketing, I
(49:16):
am more outspoken and like justcasual, um, because I want
people to feel like they know me.
Right is, uh, has isn't likecertified dietitian and
nutritionist.
She speaks with a much moreprofessional type of cadence and
language, so I've edited reelsfor me that meet her voice as
well, and we're collaboratingthat way.
So it's going to take longerjust because of the back and
forth.
And another thing that I wouldprobably do going forward is to
(49:40):
get that contract, at least anemail back and forth that says
this is what we agree on.
Can you please respond to thisemail saying yes, if you don't
want a formal contract?
and then do it, because just doit when we spend so much time
thinking about doing things andthen we want to be perfect and
then we wait, and then we don'tlaunch version one, and if
(50:03):
you're not a little bitembarrassed about version one
when you're on version 15, thenyou waited too long.
Speaker 1 (50:10):
That's really good advice, actually, because, yes,
just a big yes to that.
Yeah, yeah, if you don't lookback at your early work and
cringe, then you're not reallygrowing, are you?
And like you never I haven'theard it worded that way.
(50:31):
But yeah, you started too late,you waited too long.
That's, that's really.
That's really good advice Onthat note going forward.
So where can people find you onboth on your own website and
also on the collaboration thatyou've done with Jen?
(50:51):
Where can they find you online?
Speaker 2 (50:55):
So everything is super simple.
It's just my name, rebecca RoweRowe, r-o-w-e, dot C-A.
It's my Instagram, it's mywebsite and you can find the
collaboration with me and Jenright there on my website.
Speaker 1 (51:06):
Awesome, and we will put links to all of this in the
show notes for everyone whowants to find you.
You also had a generous offerfor our listeners.
I've lost my spreadsheet.
Yes, so for all of youlistening, if you head over to
(51:29):
Rebecca's website, which isRebeccaRoweca, she is offering
up a 25% off discount off of anyof the books on her website,
which includes a style journalto help you work through your
fashion blocks and navigate thehuman experience.
Oh, and you mentioned that'sactually written with a teenage
(51:50):
audience in mind, so that's kindof interesting too, because
teenagers are fraught with whatto wear and how we look and all
of that.
So use the code ASLU atcheckout and you'll get your 25%
discount on that.
Thank you very much, rebecca.
That was very nice of you to dothat for our audience.
Yes, and thank you so much forbeing here today and sharing
(52:16):
this with you.
I know collaboration issomething that is like I said.
We talk about it a lot on theshow, we hear about it a lot in
our circles and with ourlisteners, and I hope this gives
people that little impetus tokind of get out there and see
what's out there and what theycould potentially do with
somebody else, because it reallydoes.
(52:38):
It really gets your creativejuices going.
It's just another way to kindof satisfy that little urge that
we all have to build somethingnew, which I think is very
creative and also veryentrepreneurial at the same time
.
So, yeah, it makes it all back.
So, yes, thank you so much forbeing here this week.
Thank you, appreciate it All.
Right, everyone.
(52:58):
That is it for this week.
We'll be back in another twoweeks with another brand new
episode and we will talk to youall then.
Thanks for listening.
Thank you so much for joiningus for the and she Looked Up
Creative Hour.
If you're looking for links orresources mentioned in this
(53:18):
episode, you can find detailedshow notes on our website at
andshelookedupcom.
While you're there, be sure tosign up for our newsletter for
more business tips, profiles ofinspiring Canadian creative
women and so much more.
If you enjoyed this episode,please be sure to subscribe to
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(53:38):
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