October 28, 2024 • 59 mins
In this week's regular season episode, Melissa and Heather explore the transformative power of intentional rituals in our creative practices. Rituals are different from habits. And, there's real science behind them and how they affect our brains. They can help shape our creative mindset, help us achieve a state of flow, quite our inner critic and much more!
Do you have a particular ritual or rituals you perform in your creative practice? Share it with us on our Instagram account or our YouTube channel!
This is a great episode for creatives who...
⭐️ struggle with settling into creative work
⭐️ need help with focus in their creative practice
⭐️ find it challenging to quiet their inner voice and critic
This episode is brought to you by our Premium Subscriber Community on Patreon and Buzzsprout
For a summary of this episode and all the links mentioned please visit:
Episode169: Creating and Recreating Our Own Creative Process
You can find Melissa at finelimedesigns.com, finelimeillustrations.com or on Instagram @finelimedesigns.
You can find Heather at heatherlynnetravis.com or on Instagram @heathertravis.
You can connect with the podcast on:
- Instagram at @andshelookedup
- YouTube
- Tik Tok at @AndSheLookedUp
For a list of all available episodes, please visit:
And She Looked Up Creative Hour Podcast
Each week The And She Looked Up Podcast sits down with inspiring Canadian women who create for a living. We talk about their creative journeys and their best business tips, as well as the creative and business mindset issues all creative entrepreneurs struggle with. This podcast is for Canadian artists, makers and creators who want to find a way to make a living doing what they love.
Your host, Melissa Hartfiel (@finelimedesigns), left a 20 year career in corporate retail and has been happily self-employed as a working creative since 2010. She's a graphic designer, writer and illustrator as well as the co-founder of a multi-six figure a year business in the digital content space. She resides just outside of Vancouver, BC.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
This week's episode of the and she Looked Up podcast
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(00:21):
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(00:42):
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I can't tell you how much Iappreciate all our monthly
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They are the engine that keepsthe podcast running and they're
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(01:03):
And now let's get on with theshow.
Welcome to the and she Looked Uppodcast.
Each week we sit down withinspiring Canadian women who
create for a living.
(01:24):
We talk about their creativejourneys and their best business
tips, as well as the creativeand business mindset issues all
creative entrepreneurs strugglewith.
I'm your host, MelissaHartfield, and after leaving a
20-year career in corporateretail, I've been happily
self-employed for 12 years.
I'm a graphic designer, anillustrator and a
multi-six-figure-a-yearentrepreneur in the digital
(01:46):
content space.
This podcast is for the artists, the makers and the creatives
who want to find a way to make aliving doing what they love.
Hello everyone, and welcome toanother episode of the and she
Looked Out podcast.
As always, I'm your host,Melissa, and as always, my
(02:10):
lovely semi-regular co-host,Heather Travis, is here with me
today.
Hello, Heather.
Speaker 2 (02:16):
Hello Melissa.
Speaker 1 (02:18):
We are going to be talking about a really
interesting topic today, I think, and it's creative rituals and
the role they play in ourcreative process.
So this is something thatreally interests me.
I think I know it interests youas well, heather.
(02:40):
And I thought it was a nicecontrast from our season opener,
where we talked about rippingapart our creative process and
now we're going to be talkingabout the ritual side of the
creative process.
So last week it was all aboutchanging everything up and this
week it's about having somethingthat is comforting and that
(03:00):
centers you, that you do overand over again Almost the
non-negotiables for me and overagain Mm-hmm.
Speaker 2 (03:05):
So it's kind of interesting Almost the
non-negotiables for me, some ofthem.
Speaker 1 (03:08):
That's right, and it's interesting how the two of
those can work together.
So that's what we're going tobe talking about today.
Before we dive in, though, I dojust want to remind you all if
you are listening to the show onApple Podcasts or on Spotify, I
would love it if you wouldleave us a review or a star
rating.
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(03:37):
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Just hit the thumbs up buttonand if you're really enjoying
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(04:00):
something I can't easily dothrough a podcast app.
So, whichever way you listen,we're all artists and creatives
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We know how important thoselikes and ratings and thumbs up
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So if you're enjoying the show,would love it if you would do
that for us.
So yeah, let's get into ittoday.
(04:22):
So yeah, let's get into ittoday.
So we're going to be talkingabout creative rituals today,
and I think the important thingto stress here is that rituals
and habits are not quite thesame thing.
So a ritual, a habit, oftentends to be something that we do
(04:44):
over and over again becauseit's a habit.
Speaker 2 (04:48):
It doesn't necessarily mean it's a good
habit, and oftentimes I findhabits are like without thinking
yes, you just do it.
That's the big difference.
Speaker 1 (04:54):
You just hit the button on the nose there.
A ritual is much more aboutbeing intentional or setting an
intention.
And it's really interesting.
There's a lot of research outthere as to how rituals can
actually work with your brain to, um, trigger a lot of things
(05:15):
that are very important to us asworking creatives.
So, uh, that's what we're goingto get into today, and let's
why don't we kick it off heatherand talk about some of the
things that we both do as far asrituals, so like when it comes
to.
Okay, I have a few questionsfor you about this.
To start on a project, do youhave rituals and do you have
(05:49):
different rituals for differentaspects of your creative process
, or even, not even just yourcreative process, but your small
business owner process?
Like, yeah, how does that workfor you?
Where do you kind of go when itcomes to?
Speaker 2 (06:00):
rituals.
One of my big ones is I I meanyou could maybe call it a habit,
because now to me, I've done it.
It was ritualized so much forme that it's almost a
non-negotiable habit.
Actually, it is anon-negotiable habit is cleaning
(06:22):
my studio before I start a newproject, and so I tend to just
completely blow my studio up,like it.
Literally there is dirty paintwater, there's used paint
brushes that are not beingcleaned properly, there's lids,
there's stuff is everywhere.
But everything in my studio hasa place, because I am anal,
(06:44):
retentive, and everything has aplace in my home and my studio.
But as I work it gets reallymessy and so I have to start
from ground zero.
I literally have to reset andstart again, and in fact I have
discovered that it cannot be thesame day that I'm intending to
start the project.
I have to walk into the studio,ta-da, ready to begin.
(07:11):
It's almost like the fairieshave to have visited before you
know.
It's like prepping a room topaint.
You have to move all thefurniture out and paint and
clean and tape and all thethings.
It's like walking in and it'sjust ready.
I have clean water, I have allmy brushes are clean and tape
and all the things.
It's like walking in and it'sjust ready.
I have clean water, I have allmy brushes are clean and hanging
.
Every paint is in rainbow order.
(07:31):
Everything is there that I mayneed, including canvas.
It like everything's there.
If it's not, I can't start.
I can't start fresh.
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (07:42):
Yeah, it's something about the feeling of the room
when you walk into it.
It needs to have a certainenergy in it before you can
start, and I'm exactly the samewhen things get too cluttered or
chaotic in here or if I'mstarting something new, the room
needs to have a feel to it whenI walk in, because if it, is
(08:02):
cluttered or chaotic.
when I walk in I still get afeel, but it's not a good feel,
it's a very negative feelTotally Unless I'm mid-project
like coming back in and beinglike all right, where was I?
Speaker 2 (08:15):
That's different, yeah yeah.
That's very, very different andI find funny enough.
Sometimes now when I'm stuckmid-project, I'll sort of tidy
things up a little bit, just tokind of not, it's not a reset,
but for me it's just like allright, let's just clean off,
like let's just dust things offa little bit, literally,
(08:38):
physically, but for me it's likemetaphorical, it happens in my
brain dusting the things off.
And then the other reallyinteresting ritual and I was
thinking about it inanticipation of this episode
that I started during myexhibition process, simply
because I was creating worksinspired by so many living
(08:58):
people, is that I ended upcreating a lot of playlists to
inspire the painting processthat were specific to what I was
sort of aiming to create.
And so now I've startedcreating some secret playlists
for myself that I don't have onmy public Spotify.
Do you know what I mean?
Yeah, that are just it's justme in the studio and it's the
(09:21):
oddest mix of music, orsometimes literally all one
artist.
But I deliberately curatethings that will, because music
is also sort of a non-negotiablefor me in the studio.
I listen to a lot of music, Itry listening to podcasts, but
then I end up just sort ofstanding staring at my canvas
with wet paint and drooldripping from my face, like
(09:44):
because I listen too much,whereas music I can listen to
and just I can feel it and notand continue my process.
Speaker 1 (09:52):
So yeah, the creation of the playlist was a new one
for me yeah, I think music playsa really big role for a lot of
us when it comes to um creating.
For sure and I've often thoughtthis is actually one of the
first things we discussed whenwe started this podcast me and
lisa was creating monthlyplaylists to share with the
(10:13):
audience to use in their studios, because of um, the impact it
can have for many of us whenwe're working on something.
And I'm very similar to I.
I don't curate playlists, but Ihave specific playlists for
specific types of tasks.
Speaker 2 (10:35):
Yes, um, that I do.
I have that as well.
Yes and yeah, uh, show pen fortaxes as an example I, I, and
some of them are on Spotify.
Speaker 1 (10:46):
I have one on YouTube that I uh watch.
This is so funny.
I I really struggled to workduring the summer.
Um, because, the weather's sonice and I just I'm like looking
outside and like, oh, I want tobe out there and uh, you know,
and you got to do all thesethings to make money, right, and
(11:07):
so often what I will do is I'llput there's a playlist on
YouTube that is a cozy fall cafewith rain outside and it has a
beautiful imagery, and I willjust put my headphones on and
listen to the sound of the rainand the music and the vibe of it
all and try and put the idea ofsummer out of my head until I'm
(11:30):
done my work.
And it's very relaxing musictoo.
But yeah, I think that's areally interesting one and I
agree with you, I can listen topodcasts and watch Netflix or
Crave or whatever, but only whenI'm doing very, very specific
tasks, correct, yeah.
(11:52):
They're not, they don't get meinto a flow, they're just
something.
I have on in the backgroundwhen I'm doing usually it's
design or illustration like whenI'm actually drawing or
actually designing and.
I just want something in thebackground that I can absorb.
But, I'm not necessarily in theinspiration phase.
Speaker 2 (12:12):
Correct, like when I'm repainting furniture or
reupholstering things, or whenI'm doing stuff like that.
That's the perfect opportunityfor actually active listening.
Speaker 1 (12:20):
Yes, because it's more methodical what you're
doing.
Totally yeah yeah, totally yeahyeah.
Speaker 2 (12:25):
Totally and, depending on so, even painting
murals funny enough because ofthe large scale of it.
I find like a podcast does govery well On occasion, music
just to sort of perk me up.
But I have found I'm a veryactive listener and I dance when
like music is, I dance in mystudio so like, and I honestly
(12:48):
look like I'm probably havingseizures because it's such odd
movements, particularly when I'mpainting.
But when you're doing a muraland you need to be precise and
then you're like dancing, likeElaine Exactly, it just anyway
it doesn't do the mural justice.
So I have to sort of controlmyself and sometimes, funny
enough, mural painting I do themural justice.
So I have to sort of controlmyself.
And sometimes, funny enough,mural painting I do in complete
(13:10):
silence and that, yeah, and it'sjust me myself and my thoughts.
Speaker 1 (13:16):
Any others that?
Speaker 2 (13:17):
you do Not really Like.
I don't.
There's no, oh, I will.
I mean, I guess maybe it's justmy child-sized bladder and my
anyway, but I always have abeverage, like oh, when I say a
beverage, it sounds like I'mdrinking alcohol.
I always have, and in this casethis is grape Kool-Aid, which
I'm drinking because I'm a10-year-old boy, but I love it
(13:37):
looks watered down too, it iswatered down.
Your mom would be proud.
It is down, it's the drip it is, it is, it's watered down.
I'm trying to control myself,but yeah, so I always have to
have a drink.
The studio has to be clean.
I usually have to also ensurethat I have enough time.
I really don't like being rushedand I know, and so part of that
(13:58):
is planning.
Like I have to look at it andbe like, okay, I'm going to, I
have four hours that I havetomorrow to do this, that's
enough time.
Or I only have an hour.
Okay, then this is the studioday, cleaning.
So like I kind of have tobacktrack and plan things out,
because I really can't walk intothe studio and pick.
I have to be ridiculouslyinspired to walk into the studio
(14:19):
mid-mess and pick something newup, and then, interestingly,
I've started a new ritual toshake things up.
So does that, and it's funnyenough because of our
conversation around shakingthings up, I've started
experimenting with differentmemes and techniques and tools,
(14:40):
and what I've started doing isactually, when I experiment on
those things, I'm trying toleave my studio.
So, like I did watercolors inthe backyard, uh, yeah.
So I'm trying to like ship upthe venue in addition to the,
but I'm trying to create a habitout of it or a ritual, or yeah,
if that makes sense.
(15:00):
I don't know whether that'shabit, ritual or just fucking
around creatively.
Speaker 1 (15:04):
I don't think it's a habit.
Yet I think it's moreexperimentation, but I could see
how it could become a ritualyeah.
Speaker 2 (15:14):
Yeah, so I just tried to sort of it's just adding new
things and I might throw themback out.
But I don't know I like to pickup things and put them in my
basket and carry the basketaround for a while and see if it
works and then if sometimes,yeah, you just throw it it
doesn't work or you don't likeit or not.
For now you know what I mean.
Yes, I do, I get thatcompletely, I think, for myself
(15:38):
yeah, I think for myself.
Speaker 1 (15:41):
I've mentioned this on the show many times.
Making a cup of tea is veryritualistic for me and it's
something I always need before Istart anything.
I need a cup of tea before Istart recording the podcast.
I need a cup of tea before Iopen Photoshop or InDesign.
I need a cup of tea before Isit down to draw, like it's very
part of it is habit, because Ido it without thinking at this
(16:04):
point, but there is alsosomething about the process for
me that is very intentional andvery methodic and very
meditative and I've mentionedthis before.
(16:26):
that I love about making a cupof tea is you cannot rush it
Like you can't make the kettleboil faster.
You can't make the tea brew,faster it's just so you have to
like settle yourself down, likejust chill out and wait for the
kettle to boil.
It's not going to boil anyfaster.
So very often when I am goingthrough the process of making
the tea, I have a tendency tokind of pace in my kitchen and
(16:50):
that is where I kind of bringall my thoughts together about
what it is I'm going to go workon and that is where it becomes
the very where it becomes veryintentional and puts me in the
right frame of mind.
I don't get the same feelingfrom getting a glass of water.
I don't get the same feelingfrom popping the top on a can of
(17:12):
Coke or anything like that.
It is very much the process ofmaking the cup of tea, and I
even tried to have a teapot inmy studio and I would just fill
the teapot and bring it in andthen pour myself the tea when it
was ready, to kind of hurry theprocess along.
Speaker 2 (17:30):
No, it's not the same so no and funny enough anytime.
I've ever tried to do that withtea.
Interestingly, I end up with afucking pot of tea that's cold
sitting beside me because Iforgot about it, because it's
not part of the like process.
Do you know what I mean?
Speaker 1 (17:45):
yes, I will still make myself a pot of tea and
bring it into the studio, butit's not with the same intention
um and I have a tea cozy for it.
But it is nice, right?
I just want to refill my teacupyes, I hear it it doesn't have
the same effect, it's just right, andy it's like having a water
jug and filling your water youknow, know, it's not the same.
(18:06):
The other thing that works wellfor me and I don't do this prior
to I rarely do this prior tostarting a project, but I will
occasionally but this is moreabout when I am, when it's not
going well, and that's when Iwill get up and I will go for a
walk and there's something veryyou know, with no headphones
(18:28):
just.
and there's in behind where Ilive, there is a big sports
complex but it is in the woodsand it's surrounding it as a as
a wooded trail.
It's about one and a halfkilometer trail and I can go
into that trail and forget thatthere's a sports complex there,
(18:48):
forget that there's housesaround me and I can just be in
the woods uh and can just kindof soak it in and let my head
clear and just kind of try to bepresent.
I have a couple of um, uh,headspace, uh things that I will
(19:09):
occasionally listen to ifthings are really bad, that are
designed to.
They're like a guided forestwalk that you can kind of do.
I don't remember if that's whatthey call it, but they're very,
very short, they're just a fewminutes and sometimes like if I
just can't get my breathing tocalm down or if I just can't get
my ass to quiet, putting myheadphones in while I'm out in
the woods and listening to thisand it basically talks you
(19:32):
through like how to appreciatethe nature around you and how to
breathe, and that will get mesort of calm Totally.
Speaker 2 (19:42):
Yeah, well, because sometimes I need an external
voice to quiet the voices in myhead.
Yes, yes, yes, yeah.
Speaker 1 (19:48):
Absolutely like to focus on yeah, I think a lot of
us do, and I think, particularlyif it's um, if it's around a
deadline, you know where theanxiety starts to creep up and
you're like things just aren'tworking and you need to just get
out there and just calm all theadrenaline that's running in
(20:10):
your system and the voices thatare going in your head and
trying to get them to justsettle down.
Yeah, settle down.
Yes, playing with a puppy alsohelps.
Just you know.
Sometimes, just you know lyingon the floor and just rubbing a
dog's belly.
Speaker 2 (20:28):
Totally.
Speaker 1 (20:28):
Like lying on the floor with them staring up at
the ceiling and just pettingthem.
Oh yes, Really help as well.
Would work with a cat, wouldwork with a rabbit?
Speaker 2 (20:38):
I remember doing that with Eddie in the studio and
lying down and being like Ifirst off delightful snuggling
with him and then in the studioand lying down and being like I,
first off, delightful snugglingwith him, and then I'd be like
how did you get paint on you?
how did you get paint on you?
Every time I'm like you're,you're lying over here, I'm
working over there, like I didnot flick paint that far across
the room.
How did that happen anyway?
The mysteries.
And then same vice versa.
(20:59):
How did I find dog hair in?
Speaker 1 (21:02):
every painting, yes, but yeah, there is something
about just lying on the floor inyour studio standing up at the
ceiling for five minutes.
Speaker 2 (21:14):
Yes, I do.
Funny enough now that we say itand I honestly I don't.
I would never have thought ofit as a ritual, but it actually
is and it's so funny.
I would say that 99% of anysession that I start in my
studio, including a cleaningsession, starts with like a solo
(21:35):
dance party.
I turn on really loud music andI dance for at least one song,
probably that same song onrepeat three times.
Uh, and like, as Taylor Swiftsays, shake it off and just like
I just, and it's like I get allmy wiggle jiggles out and then,
and then I turn it to adifferent playlist, or the same
(21:55):
playlist but a little lessvolume.
That that's when I clean, orthat's when I start working.
But I would.
I honestly didn't even thinkabout it because it's just maybe
part of crazy Heather, but Ihave a dance party.
Speaker 1 (22:07):
But yeah, it's kind of like getting the zoomies out
before you work right.
Like dogs are really good atthat.
They go out, they have theirzoomie and then it's like huh.
Speaker 2 (22:19):
Yes, and that's honestly, that's exactly what it
is.
I finished, I it's like that'swhy it could be two, three songs
, and then I literally am like,okay, ready to work, let's go.
Yeah, plus, it just changesthem, it changes my.
It honestly changes my attitude.
It always puts me in a goodmood.
Well, it gets everything flow.
Speaker 1 (22:36):
I mean, we're talking about flow here?
Yes, Getting up and dancing,doing some jumping jacks, doing
some stretches, it just getseverything moving flowing in
your body and your brain needsthat blood and oxygen flowing to
it yes to actually get thingsdone, uh, yeah.
so, yeah, I think movement is animportant, can be a really
(22:58):
important part of of setting aritual or um, yeah, yeah, and I
think that's the important thingthat we're trying to point out
here is, like we sort of said atthe beginning, is that there's
habits that we do, there'sthings we do without thinking,
and I do think rituals can getto a point where we don't think
(23:19):
about them in terms of what'sthe way that I want to try and
say this, terms of what's theway that I want to try and say
this, because I don't want tosay that we're not thinking
about them, because I think oneof the principles of a ritual is
it is something that is veryintentional, that you do for a
purpose, and I don't want tomake it sound like we're not
thinking about it, but I thinkit gets to a point where we just
know in our core that we needto do this thing to make all the
(23:44):
other things happen, yeah,happen.
Yeah, so it's habitual, in thatit's something we know we do
every time we start somethingnew, but it's still intentional,
in that we understand why we'redoing it and we know that it
has to be done, and it's whatsets the tone for yes, I think
(24:07):
that's.
Speaker 2 (24:08):
The thing is that it's it's tone setting and it's
like the intention behind it is,but it's, it's part of the
greater and it's yeah, I, Iwould agree with you, it's the
intention behind it.
Speaker 1 (24:20):
It's the intention behind it yeah, the intention is
a huge part of it, absolutely,and I think for those of you who
are maybe listening, who thinkmaybe this is all a bit woo-woo,
well, first of all, if you gotthis, far.
Speaker 2 (24:38):
congratulations, you're being very open to this
the woo-woo clubs meet Thursdays.
Speaker 1 (24:48):
But the reality is there's a lot of science behind
this and in how, in terms of howthis can make a big uh
difference for us.
Um, and and I am not aneurologist or a brain scientist
in any any way, but um, thereis a lot of of information out
there there on how these kind ofthings can help our neural
pathways and how key rituals canbe into entering that all
(25:15):
elusive, wonderful state of flow.
Yes, that we need to get intoas creatives to do the deep work
or to do the bigger projectsand we all know what flow feels
like.
But for a lot of us it can bevery hard to get ourselves into
that state of flow totally.
That's where a lot of research,it seems to be, has shown that
(25:40):
having these rituals can canhelp trigger that state Exactly
that.
Speaker 2 (25:46):
That's exactly it, yeah.
Speaker 1 (25:47):
Yeah, and I actually I pulled it up.
I'm going to see if I can findit.
I found this on Forbes,actually Forbescom, where they
were talking to a brainscientist and he explained a
little bit of how ritual canpromote suppression in terms of
tuning out our inner critic,who's always shouting at us, and
(26:13):
dampening brain chatter,centering and focusing the mind
and decreasing anxiety beforeexecuting complex tasks.
And from what I read, it soundslike there's two parts of our
brain that tend to be kind ofyattering back and forth at us,
and creating rituals can turndown one of those parts of the
(26:37):
brain.
It's almost like a volume on aradio, I guess.
Turn it down and make it quiet.
It's something to do with ourcognitive control network, wow.
So, anyway, a lot of big wordsand stuff.
Speaker 2 (26:51):
I don't know Fascinating though.
Speaker 1 (26:53):
Yeah, uh, yeah.
So, and I think you know, ifyou are somebody who really
struggles with, um, anxiety, Ithink you know, uh, I know
anxieties is something that Ihave a hard time with from time
to time, particularly when I'mfeeling overwhelmed, but this
(27:15):
all sounds like having thesecreative rituals is one of the
keys to turning down thatanxiety that we're hearing, or
that we're dealing with and Idon't know, Heather, do you
struggle with anxiety?
We've never really talked aboutthis.
Speaker 2 (27:34):
I funny enough.
I have until very recently,thank you, perimenopause.
I have never anxiety like, ifsure, obviously like nervous.
Speaker 1 (27:47):
I'm not, yeah, but that's different than anxiety,
Exactly that's very differentthan anxiety.
Speaker 2 (27:53):
And I only recently, like I had a panic attack, like
six months ago, and it freakedme the fuck out Because I
literally and it's I called, ofcourse immediately called Brian,
who was like Heather.
He sounded like a, he remindedme of that anti-smoking tape
that Endler listened to, butliterally Brian was like Heather
, you are a strong, capablewoman, you will be fine.
(28:15):
And I was like, okay, I waslosing my mind.
And so what I have learned isthat I've learned some better
self-regulation techniques.
Learned is that I've learnedsome better self-regulation
techniques and, interestingly,as we were talking, the dancing
and that's why I didn't think ofit ritualistically, but dancing
(28:41):
for me is a very effectiveself-regulation tool because it
does get the zoomies out bigtime, it helps me focus on my
breathing and it also reallygets me out of my head and makes
me focus on my body.
And by just dancing I then I'm ahundred percent, and in fact
I'm almost, because I think alot of the paintings that I do
are kind of silly or come from asilly, sillier inspiration
place, or at leastwhimsicalimsical, even if it's
(29:04):
serious subject matter.
I kind of need to like shakeoff, uh, the rest of the world
and what they might think, andliterally dance like no one's
watching and be completely free.
And I think that freedom is aself-regulation tool, but it's
also like a.
It's clearing the path to justdo the thing and feel the flow
(29:29):
and all of that.
But I think part of that isself-regulation and to yeah, to
wind myself both up and downsimultaneously, I think.
Speaker 1 (29:38):
Yes, yeah, I mean, when you move, your body
releases all kinds of endorphinsand things like feel good
endorphins, right yeah, oh yeahreally, um, yeah, I.
I remember back when I had mycorporate job, uh, and it was
becoming unbearable, likeunbearable.
I would come home and I wouldjust put on my running clothes
(30:02):
and I would go for a run and Iwould just run until either
every drop of energy was drainedfrom me or I felt like I was
going to throw up Because it wasthe only way very graphic.
Sorry, but it was the only way Icould get the anxiety and the
(30:22):
stress and all the negativitywhich I had never experienced
anything like that before.
It was the only way I could getout of my body was just to just
run it out, just purephysically yeah push it out.
Um, so I do.
I.
I do think movement is a hugepart of dealing with anxiety.
(30:47):
For myself, yeah, and I'vealways had.
I think it's a hormonal thing,but there's always been points
in the month where I will getthis very edgy feeling like just
edgy, like I can't pinpoint it,but I can't settle, I can't, I
can't.
And the only way to get rid ofit is to do something.
Like you said, just godownstairs and just dance for
(31:07):
half an hour, and walking won'tdo it.
It has to be something reallyphysical to just kind of take
the edge off.
Speaker 2 (31:20):
My regular pace is very brisk.
Uh, and when I was trying towalk, I remember it was so funny
because I had these earphoneson and I could hear the guy and
I, it's just just, my biggestpatriarchal pet peeve is where
you're walking to so fast,little lady like the like, shut
the fuck up, I'm gonna drop,kick you.
And that I was like all right,this is how we know that the
(31:42):
walk is not helping me cool down, because I could really cross
the street right now and karatechop you.
This is not, hmm, okay, and infact, what I ended up doing,
because we live in such a ruralarea is I changed the song on my
and I was in a wooded area andI had like a full on and I
remember the song specifically.
(32:02):
It was cake by the ocean and Iliterally was like in the middle
of the woods.
I'm like now I feel better, Ifeel like I'm going to
assassinate some poor man.
Speaker 1 (32:12):
And speaking of playlists I had, that is one
time where I did curate veryspecific playlists to run the
demons out Right, yeah, yeah,yeah it was just like I just
needed that really loud, totallyfull on music to just, you know
(32:34):
, deal with all the anger andthe anxiety and frustration and
yeah.
Speaker 2 (32:37):
So it's like watching a particular movie because you
know it's going to help you cryLike you just need to let it out
a little bit.
Speaker 1 (32:45):
I think so.
But what I found interesting inthat article is they talk about
how it can dampen havingrituals can dampen that inner
critic.
Speaker 2 (32:56):
And.
Speaker 1 (32:56):
I've seen this mentioned in a few different
places and I think that's reallyinteresting, because who here
raise your hand?
Who here raise your hand?
Has never had your inner criticyelling at you oh big time,
right, big time.
We've all had it.
We all deal with our innercritic, we all deal with fear of
(33:17):
failure, perfectionism, all ofthat, and the more I read, the
more it pointed to the fact thatrituals can really really help
us calm that voice or shut thevoice up completely, and I
(33:38):
thought that was reallyinteresting.
You know, in the little bit Iread from Forbes, you know
there's talk about how itactually quiets the part of your
brain that is very chatty, andI've read other things about how
rituals can make you feel safe,like they create a safe
environment before you're aboutto create.
But I just I really thought itwas just so fascinating how the
(34:01):
act of those rituals canactually quiet the chatter in
our brain like it's fascinatingto me?
Speaker 2 (34:09):
yes, honestly that and that makes to me.
I'm like, as you're talking,that makes such, that makes such
perfect sense and I one of thereasons why I clean my studio is
to part of it is the studioappreciation.
Like, regardless of the, I havea spectacular huge studio space
(34:29):
, regardless of whether it's acorner in your room, whatever
that space is.
For me, clearing it and settingit up was part of adding, like
justifying, that I am an artistwith a capital A this isn't my,
this isn't a side hustle.
I mean, currently it kind of is,but still, I still-.
Speaker 1 (34:49):
You're still an artist with a capital A, and
that's exactly it.
Speaker 2 (34:53):
And that's exactly it .
And I tell people that myoffice job is my side hustle,
that I am an artist with acapital A, and part of that is
owning it.
And I think owning it isshedding, is kicking the little
chatter box in the mouth andsaying no, no, good enough, I am
insert.
(35:14):
Whatever your title is with acapital, you know, writer,
filmmaker, photographer,whatever you are create,
whatever you are are, own thattitle.
And I think part of the ritualis that is that it's like
setting yourself up and almostinterestingly, funny enough, I
was um, I was on TikTok, so I'msure it's true um, but it was an
(35:39):
.
It was a neuro neuroscientistand was talking about
manifestation from the and solike vision boarding, and which
is so interesting, because whenyou talk manifestation and
vision boarding it's likewoo-woo talk.
And then neuroscientists,that's like not woo-woo talk,
and she was basically sayingthat manifestation is in fact
(36:03):
very real for your brain andit's not like you can just will
things to happen, but if you seeit enough and think about it
enough, you will make it happen.
You can't help but make ithappen.
And so I think part of theritual it's the manifestation of
where we want to head Likewe're setting ourself up for our
(36:25):
anticipated goal, whether weknow what that is or not.
Right, but you're settingyourself up to finish the new
project write the great book,develop the film, have the idea,
noodle a project, whatever.
I think that ritual is part ofthat almost manifestation
process where we're settingourselves up to do the thing, to
(36:47):
do the thing.
Speaker 1 (36:49):
It is amazing all the work that our brains do in the
background Don't even realizethey're doing.
And I do think you'reabsolutely right Is that by
doing some of these things,whether it's a ritual, whether
it is movement, those two thingscould be one in the same yep,
(37:11):
um, how, that's exactly whatwe're doing.
We are setting our brain up todo all that background work, uh,
without even realizing what'sgoing on, and uh, yeah, I it's
like winding the old school.
Speaker 2 (37:27):
I just saw, um, you follow the most delicious vlog,
martin doulard.
I just anyway.
Martin doulard's vlog is justridiculous, uh, but he just got
an old record player that youwind up.
You know, you remember the old,like really old ones, that you
wind, wind, wind, wind, wind,wind, wind, and then it would
play the, exactly play the music.
That's what the ritual is.
(37:49):
It's like winding so that youcan then be like and just go and
and the thing that needs tohelp you move is in motion.
Speaker 1 (37:57):
Yeah, yeah, absolutely it's.
It's interesting because, youknow, as we, I just had a
thought.
This just came to me.
I don't know if there'sanything to this, but we look
back at things that were created100 years ago, 200 years ago,
(38:17):
400 years ago, 500 years ago,and the craftsmanship and the
time and the energy that wentinto it to create these
masterpieces and I'm not sayingthere's no masterpieces created
today.
That is not what I'm saying.
But now, as humans progress,we're always looking for
(38:39):
shortcuts to make the processsmoother, to make it more
efficient, to make itstreamlined, to make things
happen, happen quicker.
Speaker 2 (38:47):
And I think, maybe like these things, like the
winding of the phonograph, themaking of the tea like yep
there's, there is somethingabout, and, and it's the same
with how making bread, like theritual of it, you have to wait
for it to rise and and just the,the physical act of kneading
(39:09):
the bread.
Speaker 1 (39:09):
You know we can use a stand mixer to knead it for us,
or a bread maker.
But is it the same satisfaction, the same with washing dishes
as opposed to putting them inthe dishwasher?
I use my dishwasher, but when Iwash dishes by hand, things
happen in my brain, the thinking.
The thinking yes.
Speaker 2 (39:31):
Things happen in my brain, thinking yeah, thinking
yes um, but I I just I wonder if, uh, sometimes we try to be too
efficient, like if we almostneed some of that, and and why.
Speaker 1 (39:42):
You know the the art of woodworking.
Now we, now we can use lasercutters to yeah, to make those
things, I'm totally wrong withthat, but it's not the same.
Uh hand to brain totally andyeah, it's the same like you
know how many of us rememberthings better when we write them
down as opposed to making alist on our phone?
(40:05):
Yes, you know, I can make alist on my phone and I do it
often, but it doesn't actuallyhelp me remember the thing,
because I have to go back to thelist to remember it.
But if I want to remember thething I have to write it down
with a pen, because there'ssomething about that hand to
brain.
Speaker 2 (40:19):
Yeah, me too.
Speaker 1 (40:20):
And I think that's part of rituals.
A lot of the rituals that manyof us do before we start work
are very hand-to-brain focusedmaking a cup of tea.
Another one that I know a lotof people do is lighting a
candle.
I'm not a candle person, so Idon't do this one, excuse me.
(40:43):
Yeah, lighting a candle, I know.
Speaker 2 (40:44):
A lot of people do that as a ritual.
I have a girlfriend that doesthat.
Speaker 1 (40:47):
I know so many people who do this as a ritual in
their studios.
But again, lighting a candle isa very physical thing and
there's a difference betweenlighting a candle with a lighter
and lighting it with a matchright Match.
Same with a lot of people.
Their little ritual is writingin their journal for just two or
three minutes before they startsomething, just to kind of
(41:08):
clear their head again.
And they're writing in aphysical journal, they're not
typing in a document on theirkeyboard, so yeah, I know I'm
with you.
Speaker 2 (41:20):
Slowing things down, I think, is a yeah.
That's a big one for me interms of even just letting
things happen.
Speaker 1 (41:27):
So I'll go back to.
Speaker 2 (41:28):
Martin Doulard again yeah go ahead Honestly.
No, I'm just going to say interms of slowing things down.
His YouTube channel is bothmeditative and inspiring all at
the same time and uh, but alsosort of historic old school
(41:49):
tried, true, slow and like thewhole process of what he's doing
is a slow, deliberate, uhanyway, and the artistry and the
creativity and thecinematography and all like it's
just a feast for the eyes, it'sa feast for the ears, it's all
of the things.
Just in terms of the creativeprocess.
Speaker 1 (42:06):
Sometimes we slow down and yeah, I'm going to have
to look him up.
I'm not familiar with him atall.
Speaker 2 (42:10):
Oh, my God.
Speaker 1 (42:11):
I'll have to go check him out, but I get what you're
saying and I'm not.
I'm not saying that we shouldget rid of technology, or that
technology is not important toour jobs.
It is, and we should embrace ita hundred percent, but I do
think that there's a place forthat slowing down and for using
(42:31):
our hands and for making ourbrain do the hard work and I
mean washing dishes is not hardwork for our brain, but it does
Anything to do with water.
Speaker 2 (42:48):
I joke that I need a whiteboard in my shower, because
the number of times I screamfrom the shower I'm like Brian,
take a note, because I, just I,literally I'm like things come
to me and the number of peoplewho, at work, I get there, I'm
like morning I thought ofsomething and they're like, let
me guess, in the shower.
I'm like yes, yes.
Speaker 1 (43:04):
I can't even tell you how many times I've started
something with a sentence likethis morning, when I was in the
shower, I had this idea Exactlywhich is so literally I walk in.
Speaker 2 (43:12):
I'm like hello, male colleague, we don't need to call
HR for this, let's talk aboutmy shower this morning.
Yes, I know.
And even rituals.
Funny enough, I've been doingrituals for work and like ritual
comes in handy, I think, simplyto steady yourself and to set
yourself up.
And like I'm even ritualisticabout to-do lists and like when
(43:33):
you were talking about writinggrocery lists, like I'm very
ritualistic about writing ato-do list for the day and a
list of activities.
And if I have to accomplish agreat number of things in my
studio in the course of a day,so like I'm XYZ canvases, do so.
If it's not just like go create, make magic, uh, I will make a
list and I the checking off forme is incredibly gratifying and
(43:58):
reminds me that I'm makingprogress, particularly in things
that are, uh, like for theexhibition.
There were lists galore becauseI needed the ritual of writing,
knowing, doing and seeingcomplete was a very big deal for
me to notice the needle goingforward.
Speaker 1 (44:19):
Yes, you just made me think of something actually.
So I use a paper journal, paper, planner and I use Asana.
I use a paper journal paperplanner and I use Asana, and
Asana is for my, is for thetasks.
It tracks the tasks, it tracksa project.
It is where I put things that Ican't forget, you know.
(44:41):
Yeah, so it's very much.
It's just, it's the task list.
But at the start of every day Isit down with my planner and I
will transfer some of the moreimportant tasks for the day into
my planner and I will gothrough the process of thinking
about them.
And there is doing that in myplanner with a pen and my hand
(45:04):
and just taking a moment with mycup of tea to sit there and
think about my day.
That is not something I I do inthe same way when I'm just
checking the tasks off in asauna yeah, the the act of
sitting down with the planneropen and writing, and, as I
write, each task I think about,like how I approach it and it
becomes a very uh, it's veryintentional.
(45:26):
Actually, I I don't necessarilythink of it that way, but now
that we're talking about it, uh,and I have never been able to
shake having a, an actualphysical paper planner I guess,
I will have one until the day Idie correct.
Speaker 2 (45:42):
Honestly, I wish I wish I had all of my old ones,
because they're and because,because I do, I have.
I have lovely handwriting, uh,and I am very intentional about
the way even the page looks andhow I write notes out and my
handwriting, like I will,literally I'll be like that's a
pretty page, uh, but I have a.
(46:02):
It's not a photographic memoryby any stretch of the
imagination, but I'm a veryvisual person.
Speaker 1 (46:08):
Do you remember where on the side of the page it was
and what color it washighlighted with yes?
Speaker 2 (46:12):
A hundred percent.
Speaker 1 (46:13):
That is.
I've been like that since alittle kid.
Speaker 2 (46:15):
That's how I studied, and, like my cue cards to do
study notes were like colorcoded.
I am, that's how, the way mybrain works, and so I can
literally pull up.
I don't remember what was on myto-do list.
I remember the picture of myto-do list and then I can tell
you what was on my to-do list.
Speaker 1 (46:29):
Yes, yes, that's exactly how I am.
I may not be able to rememberthe words, but I can tell you
where on the page it was, whichside of the page.
It was what color I highlightedit with yes, and it's very,
which helps me to find thingsquickly.
Speaker 2 (46:45):
Yes, yeah me to find things quickly.
And yes, yeah, yeah, verysimilar to if I meet you at an
event.
I can tell you what you werewearing, what room we were in,
probably what you had in yourhand.
Speaker 1 (46:52):
I couldn't tell you what your name is, though,
because that just escapes me,but the other things I know,
yeah, so I, I, yeah, I thinkit's all, uh, I think that's all
far more important than maybewe give it credit for,
particularly if, like I honestlyhave never considered myself a
(47:14):
woo-woo person, but in the last10, 10 to 12 years, probably
since I became self-employed, uh, I have just realized how much
of these things that I wrote offas being silly or, yeah, you
know, whatever are now like.
Now I'm starting to understandhow they actually work and
(47:36):
they're not silly and they'renot woo woo.
There there is something thatis actually happening yes,
scientifically happening in ourbrains, totally yes, like, yes,
like old wives, tales have their.
Speaker 2 (47:50):
they have their origin, like the things that
we've done for years andgenerations, because we just did
.
Speaker 1 (47:55):
I know we talk about cliches and things.
There's a reason.
Something becomes a cliche,it's correct.
Speaker 2 (48:00):
Exactly.
Speaker 1 (48:00):
Absolutely.
Speaker 2 (48:01):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (48:02):
So, yes, so, in terms of, I guess, to kind of get us
to a closing point here, interms of we've talked, to kind
of get us to a closing pointhere, in terms of we've talked
about a few of the things thatwe like to do, I will just give
you a few others that werementioned when I was doing a
little research and, oddly, youand I, between us, have covered
most of the ones that came upover and over.
Speaker 2 (48:22):
Look at us, look at us.
Speaker 1 (48:24):
But a couple that didn't get mentioned.
One was doing things likemorning pages or journaling,
which we did briefly talk abouthere.
But morning pages if you arefamiliar with Julia Cameron and
the Artist's Way, morning pagesis a huge part of that.
I have done morning pages insome form or other for probably
close to two decades now.
(48:45):
That sounds very weird to say,but yes, very, very helpful.
But also, just sitting down andjust doing it doesn't have to
be morning pages, it could befive minutes in a journal before
you start something.
And another one that wasmentioned is actually doing
(49:05):
meditation or breathingexercises before you start, and
we didn't mention this.
I do meditate, but I tend to doit after I finish.
Oh, interesting as a way tokind of center myself and close
the day on my work day.
But yeah, it could absolutelybe a very effective tool.
Yeah, interesting I find my workis the meditation certain parts
(49:29):
of my work are very much and Iget myself into the right flow,
it becomes oh yeah, but totally,meditation and breathing in
particular can really help youcalm your body down and calm it
down is in your head, so I cansee how that would be a really
great one.
And the last one that I'llmention is using affirmations or
(49:52):
visualization techniques to getyou into the right headspace or
to help you with yourconfidence, or just and we don't
talk about this in the artworld more, but elite athletes
do this all the time before theygo out.
They do this, particularly thevisualization.
(50:14):
Visualization yeah, the entirething from going out in the
crowd doing whatever it is thatthey perform, and then all the
way through to winning andreceiving their medal.
So that's not one I have triedmyself, but I think that could
be worth giving a go.
Speaker 2 (50:34):
Visually.
I used to do it for competitivefigure skating.
It's incredibly powerful andvisualizing the finished product
and from start to finish and Ido it quite often when I have
speaking gigs I visualizeliterally walking on stage what
that looks like, greetingeverybody, and I visualize
desired reaction from theaudience.
(50:55):
I visualize closing, finishing,walking off stage and even
saying things like I walk offstage with a steady and
confident pace.
I think those things throughbecause you, if you don't
visualize that, you're like, ohmy God, I'm going to get on
stage, my pants are going tofall down.
That's what's good.
Speaker 1 (51:13):
And the thing is, I bet when you were doing that,
you weren't thinking of it as aritual, you were just thinking
of as preparation, like this ishow I prepare to go up on stage.
But honestly, that's what aritual is it's preparation, it's
preparation.
But honestly, that's what aritual is.
It's preparation, yes, it'spreparation.
It's to do the thing that weneed to do.
Whatever that may be and in ourcase, for a lot of us, ideas of
things you could try but I hopewe've also kind of made you
(51:55):
think about it in a differentway in terms of the science of
it, and I do encourage you, ifyou're curious about this, to go
out and read some of thearticles that are out there.
There's lots of stuff onlinethat tells you a little bit more
about the actual physiologicalthings that are going on in your
brain when you do these things,because there is science behind
(52:18):
it.
There is physiological changesthat happen and that make it
easier for us to actually do thework that we need to do.
Speaker 2 (52:29):
It's like setting us up for success, Like it's.
Well, it's preparedness, rightit is.
Speaker 1 (52:35):
That's what preparation is Exactly.
It's setting yourself up forsuccess and making things easier
for you, but also just bringinga little bit of calm to your
day.
Speaker 2 (52:45):
Yeah, yeah, and joy too, right, like calm and joy,
like what do you?
And that I think what do youneed to have?
What do you need brought to theproject?
And I feel like everybody's andI think that's what's unique
about rituals is it's unique tothe person and what they
themselves need to bring.
What do you need to bring tothe space?
Do you need to bring calm, ordo you need to bring to the
(53:07):
space?
Do you need to bring calm, ordo you need to bring high energy
, or do you need to bring, likewhat do you?
And we all know what we need tobring.
And that's where the that'swhere I think that's what's most
surprising for me about thisepisode, and what we're talking
about is that I know I hadrituals, but I didn't really
think of them as rituals andthen, and so this has forced me,
I think, to think about themand why I do it and actually
(53:30):
understand it a little bitbetter.
And now, now I feel like, funnyenough, when I do some of those
things, it will be, in fact,more deliberately done.
Speaker 1 (53:39):
Probably.
Because I know it's likethere's even greater clarity and
understanding as to therationale why, which, yeah, and
I think one of the importantthings with these is you don't
just have to do them at thestart of something Like if you
hit a roadblock in your day oryou things just aren't going
right or you feel like you needa restart or something like that
(54:01):
.
You can stop and take a momentand do?
I mean?
this is where tea comes in forme.
I often, when I get stuck,that's when I'll get up and I'll
go make a cup of tea, because Iknow it's going to force me to,
like, just settle down and it'squicker than going for a walk,
but it has a similar impact.
And then there's times where Ineed to actually go out of the
(54:25):
house and do that.
So you just made me think inwhat you were saying, I remember
reading Twyla Tharp's book, andTwyla Tharp is a world-renowned
choreographer, very famous, andshe talks about, I think the
book's called the Creative Habit.
Speaker 2 (54:44):
Great book.
Speaker 1 (54:45):
I highly recommend it if you haven't read it.
But one of the things she talksabout is at the start of every
new project she takes a banker'sbox and she starts filling it
with anything that she thinkswill help her with the project.
So sometimes it's research,sometimes it's videotapes,
(55:05):
sometimes it's things she needsto watch and she just that
becomes the base for her projectwhenever she's working on, and
that is kind of her ritual tostart a project, so it can also
be a very practical thing.
It doesn't have to be making teaor meditating or something.
It can be something verypractical that just helps your
(55:25):
brain again feel prepared.
Yeah, so that's reallyinteresting.
Um, shall we leave it there?
Shall we wrap it up now?
Speaker 2 (55:36):
I think yeah that was really interesting.
Honestly, that got my brainticking as it always does.
Speaker 1 (55:40):
Yeah, it's, uh, yeah I, I knew this would be one of
those episodes where I wouldreally think and I don't often
research our episodes, but thisone because I felt like I didn't
know enough about what I wastalking about.
I mean, I know I do thesethings, but I don't really
understand what's going on?
Speaker 2 (55:59):
Yeah, why?
Speaker 1 (56:00):
Physiologically so it was interesting for me to kind
of start reading a little bitand be like huh, okay, Like
there's a reason behind this.
Speaker 2 (56:09):
Yes, method to the madness.
Speaker 1 (56:11):
Method to the madness .
So, on that note, if you havespecific creative rituals that
you do, please feel free toshare them in the.
You can share them in thecomments on the YouTube video,
or you can drop them in the postfor this on for this episode on
Instagram or Facebook.
(56:32):
We'd love to hear them, cause Ithink it's a really cool thing
to talk about and, who knows,maybe what you do might just be
the thing that helps somebodyelse find what they need to get
them, to get them going.
So, yeah, I think we'll leave itthere for this week and, on
(56:53):
that note, as I mentioned at thebeginning of the episode, if
you enjoyed this episode, please, if you're watching on YouTube,
hit the thumbs up button orleave us a comment.
Both of those are reallyhelpful.
If you're listening on yourpodcast app, we'd love a review
or a star rating.
That, again, would be veryhelpful to getting the show
found and it tells us that youlove us it validates us, which
(57:18):
is always nice to hear.
Speaker 2 (57:19):
Everybody likes that.
Speaker 1 (57:27):
I actually did a pop-up market on the weekend and
one of the vendors came up tome and told me that she loved
the show and she had beenwatching it on YouTube.
I had no idea that she watchedand I was like thank you for
telling me.
You never know.
You never know right Exactly,but it is so nice when you hear
from somebody that what you'redoing is making an impact on
what they do.
So.
All right, everyone on thatnote.
(57:48):
That is it for this week.
We will be back in two weekswith another brand new episode
and, of course, Prep for theHolidays is continuing on
through.
The Prep for the Holidaysseason and, excuse me, Heather
will be back with us next monthfor another new episode.
We don't know what it'll beabout, but it will be
(58:09):
interesting.
All right, everyone.
Speaker 2 (58:12):
That's part of our ritual.
Speaker 1 (58:15):
Thank you so much for listening and we will talk to
you all soon.
Thank you so much for joiningus for the Anshi Looked Up
Creative Hour.
If you're looking for links orresources mentioned in this
episode, you can find detailedshow notes on our website at
andshelookedupcom.
While you're there, be sure tosign up for our newsletter for
(58:37):
more business tips, profiles ofinspiring Canadian creative
women and so much more.
If you enjoyed this episode,please be sure to subscribe to
the show via your podcast app ofchoice so you never miss an
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We always love to hear from you, so we'd love it if you'd leave
us a review through iTunes orApple Podcasts.
Drop us a note via our websiteat andshelookedupcom or come say
(59:00):
hi on Instagram atandshelookedup.
Thanks for listening and we'llsee you next week.
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(01:03):
And now let's get on with theshow.
Welcome to the and she Looked Uppodcast.
Each week we sit down withinspiring Canadian women who
create for a living.
(01:24):
We talk about their creativejourneys and their best business
tips, as well as the creativeand business mindset issues all
creative entrepreneurs strugglewith.
I'm your host, MelissaHartfield, and after leaving a
20-year career in corporateretail, I've been happily
self-employed for 12 years.
I'm a graphic designer, anillustrator and a
multi-six-figure-a-yearentrepreneur in the digital
(01:46):
content space.
This podcast is for the artists, the makers and the creatives
who want to find a way to make aliving doing what they love.
Hello everyone, and welcome toanother episode of the and she
Looked Out podcast.
As always, I'm your host,Melissa, and as always, my
(02:10):
lovely semi-regular co-host,Heather Travis, is here with me
today.
Hello, Heather.
Speaker 2 (02:16):
Hello Melissa.
Speaker 1 (02:18):
We are going to be talking about a really
interesting topic today, I think, and it's creative rituals and
the role they play in ourcreative process.
So this is something thatreally interests me.
I think I know it interests youas well, heather.
(02:40):
And I thought it was a nicecontrast from our season opener,
where we talked about rippingapart our creative process and
now we're going to be talkingabout the ritual side of the
creative process.
So last week it was all aboutchanging everything up and this
week it's about having somethingthat is comforting and that
(03:00):
centers you, that you do overand over again Almost the
non-negotiables for me and overagain Mm-hmm.
Speaker 2 (03:05):
So it's kind of interesting Almost the
non-negotiables for me, some ofthem.
Speaker 1 (03:08):
That's right, and it's interesting how the two of
those can work together.
So that's what we're going tobe talking about today.
Before we dive in, though, I dojust want to remind you all if
you are listening to the show onApple Podcasts or on Spotify, I
would love it if you wouldleave us a review or a star
rating.
It really helps the show getfound and so more people can
(03:37):
enjoy the show and connect upwith other Canadian creatives,
and it only takes you a coupleof seconds.
You can do it right in the appwhile you're listening, and if
you are watching on YouTube, wewould love it if you would give
us a thumbs up.
Just hit the thumbs up buttonand if you're really enjoying
the show, please subscribe.
And YouTube is a great placewhere you can leave a comment as
well, and we will see it and wecan respond to it, which is
(04:00):
something I can't easily dothrough a podcast app.
So, whichever way you listen,we're all artists and creatives
and makers here.
We know how important thoselikes and ratings and thumbs up
are for algorithms, and itdoesn't cost a penny.
So if you're enjoying the show,would love it if you would do
that for us.
So yeah, let's get into ittoday.
(04:22):
So yeah, let's get into ittoday.
So we're going to be talkingabout creative rituals today,
and I think the important thingto stress here is that rituals
and habits are not quite thesame thing.
So a ritual, a habit, oftentends to be something that we do
(04:44):
over and over again becauseit's a habit.
Speaker 2 (04:48):
It doesn't necessarily mean it's a good
habit, and oftentimes I findhabits are like without thinking
yes, you just do it.
That's the big difference.
Speaker 1 (04:54):
You just hit the button on the nose there.
A ritual is much more aboutbeing intentional or setting an
intention.
And it's really interesting.
There's a lot of research outthere as to how rituals can
actually work with your brain to, um, trigger a lot of things
(05:15):
that are very important to us asworking creatives.
So, uh, that's what we're goingto get into today, and let's
why don't we kick it off heatherand talk about some of the
things that we both do as far asrituals, so like when it comes
to.
Okay, I have a few questionsfor you about this.
To start on a project, do youhave rituals and do you have
(05:49):
different rituals for differentaspects of your creative process
, or even, not even just yourcreative process, but your small
business owner process?
Like, yeah, how does that workfor you?
Where do you kind of go when itcomes to?
Speaker 2 (06:00):
rituals.
One of my big ones is I I meanyou could maybe call it a habit,
because now to me, I've done it.
It was ritualized so much forme that it's almost a
non-negotiable habit.
Actually, it is anon-negotiable habit is cleaning
(06:22):
my studio before I start a newproject, and so I tend to just
completely blow my studio up,like it.
Literally there is dirty paintwater, there's used paint
brushes that are not beingcleaned properly, there's lids,
there's stuff is everywhere.
But everything in my studio hasa place, because I am anal,
(06:44):
retentive, and everything has aplace in my home and my studio.
But as I work it gets reallymessy and so I have to start
from ground zero.
I literally have to reset andstart again, and in fact I have
discovered that it cannot be thesame day that I'm intending to
start the project.
I have to walk into the studio,ta-da, ready to begin.
(07:11):
It's almost like the fairieshave to have visited before you
know.
It's like prepping a room topaint.
You have to move all thefurniture out and paint and
clean and tape and all thethings.
It's like walking in and it'sjust ready.
I have clean water, I have allmy brushes are clean and tape
and all the things.
It's like walking in and it'sjust ready.
I have clean water, I have allmy brushes are clean and hanging
.
Every paint is in rainbow order.
(07:31):
Everything is there that I mayneed, including canvas.
It like everything's there.
If it's not, I can't start.
I can't start fresh.
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (07:42):
Yeah, it's something about the feeling of the room
when you walk into it.
It needs to have a certainenergy in it before you can
start, and I'm exactly the samewhen things get too cluttered or
chaotic in here or if I'mstarting something new, the room
needs to have a feel to it whenI walk in, because if it, is
(08:02):
cluttered or chaotic.
when I walk in I still get afeel, but it's not a good feel,
it's a very negative feelTotally Unless I'm mid-project
like coming back in and beinglike all right, where was I?
Speaker 2 (08:15):
That's different, yeah yeah.
That's very, very different andI find funny enough.
Sometimes now when I'm stuckmid-project, I'll sort of tidy
things up a little bit, just tokind of not, it's not a reset,
but for me it's just like allright, let's just clean off,
like let's just dust things offa little bit, literally,
(08:38):
physically, but for me it's likemetaphorical, it happens in my
brain dusting the things off.
And then the other reallyinteresting ritual and I was
thinking about it inanticipation of this episode
that I started during myexhibition process, simply
because I was creating worksinspired by so many living
(08:58):
people, is that I ended upcreating a lot of playlists to
inspire the painting processthat were specific to what I was
sort of aiming to create.
And so now I've startedcreating some secret playlists
for myself that I don't have onmy public Spotify.
Do you know what I mean?
Yeah, that are just it's justme in the studio and it's the
(09:21):
oddest mix of music, orsometimes literally all one
artist.
But I deliberately curatethings that will, because music
is also sort of a non-negotiablefor me in the studio.
I listen to a lot of music, Itry listening to podcasts, but
then I end up just sort ofstanding staring at my canvas
with wet paint and drooldripping from my face, like
(09:44):
because I listen too much,whereas music I can listen to
and just I can feel it and notand continue my process.
Speaker 1 (09:52):
So yeah, the creation of the playlist was a new one
for me yeah, I think music playsa really big role for a lot of
us when it comes to um creating.
For sure and I've often thoughtthis is actually one of the
first things we discussed whenwe started this podcast me and
lisa was creating monthlyplaylists to share with the
(10:13):
audience to use in their studios, because of um, the impact it
can have for many of us whenwe're working on something.
And I'm very similar to I.
I don't curate playlists, but Ihave specific playlists for
specific types of tasks.
Speaker 2 (10:35):
Yes, um, that I do.
I have that as well.
Yes and yeah, uh, show pen fortaxes as an example I, I, and
some of them are on Spotify.
Speaker 1 (10:46):
I have one on YouTube that I uh watch.
This is so funny.
I I really struggled to workduring the summer.
Um, because, the weather's sonice and I just I'm like looking
outside and like, oh, I want tobe out there and uh, you know,
and you got to do all thesethings to make money, right, and
(11:07):
so often what I will do is I'llput there's a playlist on
YouTube that is a cozy fall cafewith rain outside and it has a
beautiful imagery, and I willjust put my headphones on and
listen to the sound of the rainand the music and the vibe of it
all and try and put the idea ofsummer out of my head until I'm
(11:30):
done my work.
And it's very relaxing musictoo.
But yeah, I think that's areally interesting one and I
agree with you, I can listen topodcasts and watch Netflix or
Crave or whatever, but only whenI'm doing very, very specific
tasks, correct, yeah.
(11:52):
They're not, they don't get meinto a flow, they're just
something.
I have on in the backgroundwhen I'm doing usually it's
design or illustration like whenI'm actually drawing or
actually designing and.
I just want something in thebackground that I can absorb.
But, I'm not necessarily in theinspiration phase.
Speaker 2 (12:12):
Correct, like when I'm repainting furniture or
reupholstering things, or whenI'm doing stuff like that.
That's the perfect opportunityfor actually active listening.
Speaker 1 (12:20):
Yes, because it's more methodical what you're
doing.
Totally yeah yeah, totally yeahyeah.
Speaker 2 (12:25):
Totally and, depending on so, even painting
murals funny enough because ofthe large scale of it.
I find like a podcast does govery well On occasion, music
just to sort of perk me up.
But I have found I'm a veryactive listener and I dance when
like music is, I dance in mystudio so like, and I honestly
(12:48):
look like I'm probably havingseizures because it's such odd
movements, particularly when I'mpainting.
But when you're doing a muraland you need to be precise and
then you're like dancing, likeElaine Exactly, it just anyway
it doesn't do the mural justice.
So I have to sort of controlmyself and sometimes, funny
enough, mural painting I do themural justice.
So I have to sort of controlmyself.
And sometimes, funny enough,mural painting I do in complete
(13:10):
silence and that, yeah, and it'sjust me myself and my thoughts.
Speaker 1 (13:16):
Any others that?
Speaker 2 (13:17):
you do Not really Like.
I don't.
There's no, oh, I will.
I mean, I guess maybe it's justmy child-sized bladder and my
anyway, but I always have abeverage, like oh, when I say a
beverage, it sounds like I'mdrinking alcohol.
I always have, and in this casethis is grape Kool-Aid, which
I'm drinking because I'm a10-year-old boy, but I love it
(13:37):
looks watered down too, it iswatered down.
Your mom would be proud.
It is down, it's the drip it is, it is, it's watered down.
I'm trying to control myself,but yeah, so I always have to
have a drink.
The studio has to be clean.
I usually have to also ensurethat I have enough time.
I really don't like being rushedand I know, and so part of that
(13:58):
is planning.
Like I have to look at it andbe like, okay, I'm going to, I
have four hours that I havetomorrow to do this, that's
enough time.
Or I only have an hour.
Okay, then this is the studioday, cleaning.
So like I kind of have tobacktrack and plan things out,
because I really can't walk intothe studio and pick.
I have to be ridiculouslyinspired to walk into the studio
(14:19):
mid-mess and pick something newup, and then, interestingly,
I've started a new ritual toshake things up.
So does that, and it's funnyenough because of our
conversation around shakingthings up, I've started
experimenting with differentmemes and techniques and tools,
(14:40):
and what I've started doing isactually, when I experiment on
those things, I'm trying toleave my studio.
So, like I did watercolors inthe backyard, uh, yeah.
So I'm trying to like ship upthe venue in addition to the,
but I'm trying to create a habitout of it or a ritual, or yeah,
if that makes sense.
(15:00):
I don't know whether that'shabit, ritual or just fucking
around creatively.
Speaker 1 (15:04):
I don't think it's a habit.
Yet I think it's moreexperimentation, but I could see
how it could become a ritualyeah.
Speaker 2 (15:14):
Yeah, so I just tried to sort of it's just adding new
things and I might throw themback out.
But I don't know I like to pickup things and put them in my
basket and carry the basketaround for a while and see if it
works and then if sometimes,yeah, you just throw it it
doesn't work or you don't likeit or not.
For now you know what I mean.
Yes, I do, I get thatcompletely, I think, for myself
(15:38):
yeah, I think for myself.
Speaker 1 (15:41):
I've mentioned this on the show many times.
Making a cup of tea is veryritualistic for me and it's
something I always need before Istart anything.
I need a cup of tea before Istart recording the podcast.
I need a cup of tea before Iopen Photoshop or InDesign.
I need a cup of tea before Isit down to draw, like it's very
part of it is habit, because Ido it without thinking at this
(16:04):
point, but there is alsosomething about the process for
me that is very intentional andvery methodic and very
meditative and I've mentionedthis before.
(16:26):
that I love about making a cupof tea is you cannot rush it
Like you can't make the kettleboil faster.
You can't make the tea brew,faster it's just so you have to
like settle yourself down, likejust chill out and wait for the
kettle to boil.
It's not going to boil anyfaster.
So very often when I am goingthrough the process of making
the tea, I have a tendency tokind of pace in my kitchen and
(16:50):
that is where I kind of bringall my thoughts together about
what it is I'm going to go workon and that is where it becomes
the very where it becomes veryintentional and puts me in the
right frame of mind.
I don't get the same feelingfrom getting a glass of water.
I don't get the same feelingfrom popping the top on a can of
(17:12):
Coke or anything like that.
It is very much the process ofmaking the cup of tea, and I
even tried to have a teapot inmy studio and I would just fill
the teapot and bring it in andthen pour myself the tea when it
was ready, to kind of hurry theprocess along.
Speaker 2 (17:30):
No, it's not the same so no and funny enough anytime.
I've ever tried to do that withtea.
Interestingly, I end up with afucking pot of tea that's cold
sitting beside me because Iforgot about it, because it's
not part of the like process.
Do you know what I mean?
Speaker 1 (17:45):
yes, I will still make myself a pot of tea and
bring it into the studio, butit's not with the same intention
um and I have a tea cozy for it.
But it is nice, right?
I just want to refill my teacupyes, I hear it it doesn't have
the same effect, it's just right, andy it's like having a water
jug and filling your water youknow, know, it's not the same.
(18:06):
The other thing that works wellfor me and I don't do this prior
to I rarely do this prior tostarting a project, but I will
occasionally but this is moreabout when I am, when it's not
going well, and that's when Iwill get up and I will go for a
walk and there's something veryyou know, with no headphones
(18:28):
just.
and there's in behind where Ilive, there is a big sports
complex but it is in the woodsand it's surrounding it as a as
a wooded trail.
It's about one and a halfkilometer trail and I can go
into that trail and forget thatthere's a sports complex there,
(18:48):
forget that there's housesaround me and I can just be in
the woods uh and can just kindof soak it in and let my head
clear and just kind of try to bepresent.
I have a couple of um, uh,headspace, uh things that I will
(19:09):
occasionally listen to ifthings are really bad, that are
designed to.
They're like a guided forestwalk that you can kind of do.
I don't remember if that's whatthey call it, but they're very,
very short, they're just a fewminutes and sometimes like if I
just can't get my breathing tocalm down or if I just can't get
my ass to quiet, putting myheadphones in while I'm out in
the woods and listening to thisand it basically talks you
(19:32):
through like how to appreciatethe nature around you and how to
breathe, and that will get mesort of calm Totally.
Speaker 2 (19:42):
Yeah, well, because sometimes I need an external
voice to quiet the voices in myhead.
Yes, yes, yes, yeah.
Speaker 1 (19:48):
Absolutely like to focus on yeah, I think a lot of
us do, and I think, particularlyif it's um, if it's around a
deadline, you know where theanxiety starts to creep up and
you're like things just aren'tworking and you need to just get
out there and just calm all theadrenaline that's running in
(20:10):
your system and the voices thatare going in your head and
trying to get them to justsettle down.
Yeah, settle down.
Yes, playing with a puppy alsohelps.
Just you know.
Sometimes, just you know lyingon the floor and just rubbing a
dog's belly.
Speaker 2 (20:28):
Totally.
Speaker 1 (20:28):
Like lying on the floor with them staring up at
the ceiling and just pettingthem.
Oh yes, Really help as well.
Would work with a cat, wouldwork with a rabbit?
Speaker 2 (20:38):
I remember doing that with Eddie in the studio and
lying down and being like Ifirst off delightful snuggling
with him and then in the studioand lying down and being like I,
first off, delightful snugglingwith him, and then I'd be like
how did you get paint on you?
how did you get paint on you?
Every time I'm like you're,you're lying over here, I'm
working over there, like I didnot flick paint that far across
the room.
How did that happen anyway?
The mysteries.
And then same vice versa.
(20:59):
How did I find dog hair in?
Speaker 1 (21:02):
every painting, yes, but yeah, there is something
about just lying on the floor inyour studio standing up at the
ceiling for five minutes.
Speaker 2 (21:14):
Yes, I do.
Funny enough now that we say itand I honestly I don't.
I would never have thought ofit as a ritual, but it actually
is and it's so funny.
I would say that 99% of anysession that I start in my
studio, including a cleaningsession, starts with like a solo
(21:35):
dance party.
I turn on really loud music andI dance for at least one song,
probably that same song onrepeat three times.
Uh, and like, as Taylor Swiftsays, shake it off and just like
I just, and it's like I get allmy wiggle jiggles out and then,
and then I turn it to adifferent playlist, or the same
(21:55):
playlist but a little lessvolume.
That that's when I clean, orthat's when I start working.
But I would.
I honestly didn't even thinkabout it because it's just maybe
part of crazy Heather, but Ihave a dance party.
Speaker 1 (22:07):
But yeah, it's kind of like getting the zoomies out
before you work right.
Like dogs are really good atthat.
They go out, they have theirzoomie and then it's like huh.
Speaker 2 (22:19):
Yes, and that's honestly, that's exactly what it
is.
I finished, I it's like that'swhy it could be two, three songs
, and then I literally am like,okay, ready to work, let's go.
Yeah, plus, it just changesthem, it changes my.
It honestly changes my attitude.
It always puts me in a goodmood.
Well, it gets everything flow.
Speaker 1 (22:36):
I mean, we're talking about flow here?
Yes, Getting up and dancing,doing some jumping jacks, doing
some stretches, it just getseverything moving flowing in
your body and your brain needsthat blood and oxygen flowing to
it yes to actually get thingsdone, uh, yeah.
so, yeah, I think movement is animportant, can be a really
(22:58):
important part of of setting aritual or um, yeah, yeah, and I
think that's the important thingthat we're trying to point out
here is, like we sort of said atthe beginning, is that there's
habits that we do, there'sthings we do without thinking,
and I do think rituals can getto a point where we don't think
(23:19):
about them in terms of what'sthe way that I want to try and
say this, terms of what's theway that I want to try and say
this, because I don't want tosay that we're not thinking
about them, because I think oneof the principles of a ritual is
it is something that is veryintentional, that you do for a
purpose, and I don't want tomake it sound like we're not
thinking about it, but I thinkit gets to a point where we just
know in our core that we needto do this thing to make all the
(23:44):
other things happen, yeah,happen.
Yeah, so it's habitual, in thatit's something we know we do
every time we start somethingnew, but it's still intentional,
in that we understand why we'redoing it and we know that it
has to be done, and it's whatsets the tone for yes, I think
(24:07):
that's.
Speaker 2 (24:08):
The thing is that it's it's tone setting and it's
like the intention behind it is,but it's, it's part of the
greater and it's yeah, I, Iwould agree with you, it's the
intention behind it.
Speaker 1 (24:20):
It's the intention behind it yeah, the intention is
a huge part of it, absolutely,and I think for those of you who
are maybe listening, who thinkmaybe this is all a bit woo-woo,
well, first of all, if you gotthis, far.
Speaker 2 (24:38):
congratulations, you're being very open to this
the woo-woo clubs meet Thursdays.
Speaker 1 (24:48):
But the reality is there's a lot of science behind
this and in how, in terms of howthis can make a big uh
difference for us.
Um, and and I am not aneurologist or a brain scientist
in any any way, but um, thereis a lot of of information out
there there on how these kind ofthings can help our neural
pathways and how key rituals canbe into entering that all
(25:15):
elusive, wonderful state of flow.
Yes, that we need to get intoas creatives to do the deep work
or to do the bigger projectsand we all know what flow feels
like.
But for a lot of us it can bevery hard to get ourselves into
that state of flow totally.
That's where a lot of research,it seems to be, has shown that
(25:40):
having these rituals can canhelp trigger that state Exactly
that.
Speaker 2 (25:46):
That's exactly it, yeah.
Speaker 1 (25:47):
Yeah, and I actually I pulled it up.
I'm going to see if I can findit.
I found this on Forbes,actually Forbescom, where they
were talking to a brainscientist and he explained a
little bit of how ritual canpromote suppression in terms of
tuning out our inner critic,who's always shouting at us, and
(26:13):
dampening brain chatter,centering and focusing the mind
and decreasing anxiety beforeexecuting complex tasks.
And from what I read, it soundslike there's two parts of our
brain that tend to be kind ofyattering back and forth at us,
and creating rituals can turndown one of those parts of the
(26:37):
brain.
It's almost like a volume on aradio, I guess.
Turn it down and make it quiet.
It's something to do with ourcognitive control network, wow.
So, anyway, a lot of big wordsand stuff.
Speaker 2 (26:51):
I don't know Fascinating though.
Speaker 1 (26:53):
Yeah, uh, yeah.
So, and I think you know, ifyou are somebody who really
struggles with, um, anxiety, Ithink you know, uh, I know
anxieties is something that Ihave a hard time with from time
to time, particularly when I'mfeeling overwhelmed, but this
(27:15):
all sounds like having thesecreative rituals is one of the
keys to turning down thatanxiety that we're hearing, or
that we're dealing with and Idon't know, Heather, do you
struggle with anxiety?
We've never really talked aboutthis.
Speaker 2 (27:34):
I funny enough.
I have until very recently,thank you, perimenopause.
I have never anxiety like, ifsure, obviously like nervous.
Speaker 1 (27:47):
I'm not, yeah, but that's different than anxiety,
Exactly that's very differentthan anxiety.
Speaker 2 (27:53):
And I only recently, like I had a panic attack, like
six months ago, and it freakedme the fuck out Because I
literally and it's I called, ofcourse immediately called Brian,
who was like Heather.
He sounded like a, he remindedme of that anti-smoking tape
that Endler listened to, butliterally Brian was like Heather
, you are a strong, capablewoman, you will be fine.
(28:15):
And I was like, okay, I waslosing my mind.
And so what I have learned isthat I've learned some better
self-regulation techniques.
Learned is that I've learnedsome better self-regulation
techniques and, interestingly,as we were talking, the dancing
and that's why I didn't think ofit ritualistically, but dancing
(28:41):
for me is a very effectiveself-regulation tool because it
does get the zoomies out bigtime, it helps me focus on my
breathing and it also reallygets me out of my head and makes
me focus on my body.
And by just dancing I then I'm ahundred percent, and in fact
I'm almost, because I think alot of the paintings that I do
are kind of silly or come from asilly, sillier inspiration
place, or at leastwhimsicalimsical, even if it's
(29:04):
serious subject matter.
I kind of need to like shakeoff, uh, the rest of the world
and what they might think, andliterally dance like no one's
watching and be completely free.
And I think that freedom is aself-regulation tool, but it's
also like a.
It's clearing the path to justdo the thing and feel the flow
(29:29):
and all of that.
But I think part of that isself-regulation and to yeah, to
wind myself both up and downsimultaneously, I think.
Speaker 1 (29:38):
Yes, yeah, I mean, when you move, your body
releases all kinds of endorphinsand things like feel good
endorphins, right yeah, oh yeahreally, um, yeah, I.
I remember back when I had mycorporate job, uh, and it was
becoming unbearable, likeunbearable.
I would come home and I wouldjust put on my running clothes
(30:02):
and I would go for a run and Iwould just run until either
every drop of energy was drainedfrom me or I felt like I was
going to throw up Because it wasthe only way very graphic.
Sorry, but it was the only way Icould get the anxiety and the
(30:22):
stress and all the negativitywhich I had never experienced
anything like that before.
It was the only way I could getout of my body was just to just
run it out, just purephysically yeah push it out.
Um, so I do.
I.
I do think movement is a hugepart of dealing with anxiety.
(30:47):
For myself, yeah, and I'vealways had.
I think it's a hormonal thing,but there's always been points
in the month where I will getthis very edgy feeling like just
edgy, like I can't pinpoint it,but I can't settle, I can't, I
can't.
And the only way to get rid ofit is to do something.
Like you said, just godownstairs and just dance for
(31:07):
half an hour, and walking won'tdo it.
It has to be something reallyphysical to just kind of take
the edge off.
Speaker 2 (31:20):
My regular pace is very brisk.
Uh, and when I was trying towalk, I remember it was so funny
because I had these earphoneson and I could hear the guy and
I, it's just just, my biggestpatriarchal pet peeve is where
you're walking to so fast,little lady like the like, shut
the fuck up, I'm gonna drop,kick you.
And that I was like all right,this is how we know that the
(31:42):
walk is not helping me cool down, because I could really cross
the street right now and karatechop you.
This is not, hmm, okay, and infact, what I ended up doing,
because we live in such a ruralarea is I changed the song on my
and I was in a wooded area andI had like a full on and I
remember the song specifically.
(32:02):
It was cake by the ocean and Iliterally was like in the middle
of the woods.
I'm like now I feel better, Ifeel like I'm going to
assassinate some poor man.
Speaker 1 (32:12):
And speaking of playlists I had, that is one
time where I did curate veryspecific playlists to run the
demons out Right, yeah, yeah,yeah it was just like I just
needed that really loud, totallyfull on music to just, you know
(32:34):
, deal with all the anger andthe anxiety and frustration and
yeah.
Speaker 2 (32:37):
So it's like watching a particular movie because you
know it's going to help you cryLike you just need to let it out
a little bit.
Speaker 1 (32:45):
I think so.
But what I found interesting inthat article is they talk about
how it can dampen havingrituals can dampen that inner
critic.
Speaker 2 (32:56):
And.
Speaker 1 (32:56):
I've seen this mentioned in a few different
places and I think that's reallyinteresting, because who here
raise your hand?
Who here raise your hand?
Has never had your inner criticyelling at you oh big time,
right, big time.
We've all had it.
We all deal with our innercritic, we all deal with fear of
(33:17):
failure, perfectionism, all ofthat, and the more I read, the
more it pointed to the fact thatrituals can really really help
us calm that voice or shut thevoice up completely, and I
(33:38):
thought that was reallyinteresting.
You know, in the little bit Iread from Forbes, you know
there's talk about how itactually quiets the part of your
brain that is very chatty, andI've read other things about how
rituals can make you feel safe,like they create a safe
environment before you're aboutto create.
But I just I really thought itwas just so fascinating how the
(34:01):
act of those rituals canactually quiet the chatter in
our brain like it's fascinatingto me?
Speaker 2 (34:09):
yes, honestly that and that makes to me.
I'm like, as you're talking,that makes such, that makes such
perfect sense and I one of thereasons why I clean my studio is
to part of it is the studioappreciation.
Like, regardless of the, I havea spectacular huge studio space
(34:29):
, regardless of whether it's acorner in your room, whatever
that space is.
For me, clearing it and settingit up was part of adding, like
justifying, that I am an artistwith a capital A this isn't my,
this isn't a side hustle.
I mean, currently it kind of is,but still, I still-.
Speaker 1 (34:49):
You're still an artist with a capital A, and
that's exactly it.
Speaker 2 (34:53):
And that's exactly it .
And I tell people that myoffice job is my side hustle,
that I am an artist with acapital A, and part of that is
owning it.
And I think owning it isshedding, is kicking the little
chatter box in the mouth andsaying no, no, good enough, I am
insert.
(35:14):
Whatever your title is with acapital, you know, writer,
filmmaker, photographer,whatever you are create,
whatever you are are, own thattitle.
And I think part of the ritualis that is that it's like
setting yourself up and almostinterestingly, funny enough, I
was um, I was on TikTok, so I'msure it's true um, but it was an
(35:39):
.
It was a neuro neuroscientistand was talking about
manifestation from the and solike vision boarding, and which
is so interesting, because whenyou talk manifestation and
vision boarding it's likewoo-woo talk.
And then neuroscientists,that's like not woo-woo talk,
and she was basically sayingthat manifestation is in fact
(36:03):
very real for your brain andit's not like you can just will
things to happen, but if you seeit enough and think about it
enough, you will make it happen.
You can't help but make ithappen.
And so I think part of theritual it's the manifestation of
where we want to head Likewe're setting ourself up for our
(36:25):
anticipated goal, whether weknow what that is or not.
Right, but you're settingyourself up to finish the new
project write the great book,develop the film, have the idea,
noodle a project, whatever.
I think that ritual is part ofthat almost manifestation
process where we're settingourselves up to do the thing, to
(36:47):
do the thing.
Speaker 1 (36:49):
It is amazing all the work that our brains do in the
background Don't even realizethey're doing.
And I do think you'reabsolutely right Is that by
doing some of these things,whether it's a ritual, whether
it is movement, those two thingscould be one in the same yep,
(37:11):
um, how, that's exactly whatwe're doing.
We are setting our brain up todo all that background work, uh,
without even realizing what'sgoing on, and uh, yeah, I it's
like winding the old school.
Speaker 2 (37:27):
I just saw, um, you follow the most delicious vlog,
martin doulard.
I just anyway.
Martin doulard's vlog is justridiculous, uh, but he just got
an old record player that youwind up.
You know, you remember the old,like really old ones, that you
wind, wind, wind, wind, wind,wind, wind, and then it would
play the, exactly play the music.
That's what the ritual is.
(37:49):
It's like winding so that youcan then be like and just go and
and the thing that needs tohelp you move is in motion.
Speaker 1 (37:57):
Yeah, yeah, absolutely it's.
It's interesting because, youknow, as we, I just had a
thought.
This just came to me.
I don't know if there'sanything to this, but we look
back at things that were created100 years ago, 200 years ago,
(38:17):
400 years ago, 500 years ago,and the craftsmanship and the
time and the energy that wentinto it to create these
masterpieces and I'm not sayingthere's no masterpieces created
today.
That is not what I'm saying.
But now, as humans progress,we're always looking for
(38:39):
shortcuts to make the processsmoother, to make it more
efficient, to make itstreamlined, to make things
happen, happen quicker.
Speaker 2 (38:47):
And I think, maybe like these things, like the
winding of the phonograph, themaking of the tea like yep
there's, there is somethingabout, and, and it's the same
with how making bread, like theritual of it, you have to wait
for it to rise and and just the,the physical act of kneading
(39:09):
the bread.
Speaker 1 (39:09):
You know we can use a stand mixer to knead it for us,
or a bread maker.
But is it the same satisfaction, the same with washing dishes
as opposed to putting them inthe dishwasher?
I use my dishwasher, but when Iwash dishes by hand, things
happen in my brain, the thinking.
The thinking yes.
Speaker 2 (39:31):
Things happen in my brain, thinking yeah, thinking
yes um, but I I just I wonder if, uh, sometimes we try to be too
efficient, like if we almostneed some of that, and and why.
Speaker 1 (39:42):
You know the the art of woodworking.
Now we, now we can use lasercutters to yeah, to make those
things, I'm totally wrong withthat, but it's not the same.
Uh hand to brain totally andyeah, it's the same like you
know how many of us rememberthings better when we write them
down as opposed to making alist on our phone?
(40:05):
Yes, you know, I can make alist on my phone and I do it
often, but it doesn't actuallyhelp me remember the thing,
because I have to go back to thelist to remember it.
But if I want to remember thething I have to write it down
with a pen, because there'ssomething about that hand to
brain.
Speaker 2 (40:19):
Yeah, me too.
Speaker 1 (40:20):
And I think that's part of rituals.
A lot of the rituals that manyof us do before we start work
are very hand-to-brain focusedmaking a cup of tea.
Another one that I know a lotof people do is lighting a
candle.
I'm not a candle person, so Idon't do this one, excuse me.
(40:43):
Yeah, lighting a candle, I know.
Speaker 2 (40:44):
A lot of people do that as a ritual.
I have a girlfriend that doesthat.
Speaker 1 (40:47):
I know so many people who do this as a ritual in
their studios.
But again, lighting a candle isa very physical thing and
there's a difference betweenlighting a candle with a lighter
and lighting it with a matchright Match.
Same with a lot of people.
Their little ritual is writingin their journal for just two or
three minutes before they startsomething, just to kind of
(41:08):
clear their head again.
And they're writing in aphysical journal, they're not
typing in a document on theirkeyboard, so yeah, I know I'm
with you.
Speaker 2 (41:20):
Slowing things down, I think, is a yeah.
That's a big one for me interms of even just letting
things happen.
Speaker 1 (41:27):
So I'll go back to.
Speaker 2 (41:28):
Martin Doulard again yeah go ahead Honestly.
No, I'm just going to say interms of slowing things down.
His YouTube channel is bothmeditative and inspiring all at
the same time and uh, but alsosort of historic old school
(41:49):
tried, true, slow and like thewhole process of what he's doing
is a slow, deliberate, uhanyway, and the artistry and the
creativity and thecinematography and all like it's
just a feast for the eyes, it'sa feast for the ears, it's all
of the things.
Just in terms of the creativeprocess.
Speaker 1 (42:06):
Sometimes we slow down and yeah, I'm going to have
to look him up.
I'm not familiar with him atall.
Speaker 2 (42:10):
Oh, my God.
Speaker 1 (42:11):
I'll have to go check him out, but I get what you're
saying and I'm not.
I'm not saying that we shouldget rid of technology, or that
technology is not important toour jobs.
It is, and we should embrace ita hundred percent, but I do
think that there's a place forthat slowing down and for using
(42:31):
our hands and for making ourbrain do the hard work and I
mean washing dishes is not hardwork for our brain, but it does
Anything to do with water.
Speaker 2 (42:48):
I joke that I need a whiteboard in my shower, because
the number of times I screamfrom the shower I'm like Brian,
take a note, because I, just I,literally I'm like things come
to me and the number of peoplewho, at work, I get there, I'm
like morning I thought ofsomething and they're like, let
me guess, in the shower.
I'm like yes, yes.
Speaker 1 (43:04):
I can't even tell you how many times I've started
something with a sentence likethis morning, when I was in the
shower, I had this idea Exactlywhich is so literally I walk in.
Speaker 2 (43:12):
I'm like hello, male colleague, we don't need to call
HR for this, let's talk aboutmy shower this morning.
Yes, I know.
And even rituals.
Funny enough, I've been doingrituals for work and like ritual
comes in handy, I think, simplyto steady yourself and to set
yourself up.
And like I'm even ritualisticabout to-do lists and like when
(43:33):
you were talking about writinggrocery lists, like I'm very
ritualistic about writing ato-do list for the day and a
list of activities.
And if I have to accomplish agreat number of things in my
studio in the course of a day,so like I'm XYZ canvases, do so.
If it's not just like go create, make magic, uh, I will make a
list and I the checking off forme is incredibly gratifying and
(43:58):
reminds me that I'm makingprogress, particularly in things
that are, uh, like for theexhibition.
There were lists galore becauseI needed the ritual of writing,
knowing, doing and seeingcomplete was a very big deal for
me to notice the needle goingforward.
Speaker 1 (44:19):
Yes, you just made me think of something actually.
So I use a paper journal, paper, planner and I use Asana.
I use a paper journal paperplanner and I use Asana, and
Asana is for my, is for thetasks.
It tracks the tasks, it tracksa project.
It is where I put things that Ican't forget, you know.
(44:41):
Yeah, so it's very much.
It's just, it's the task list.
But at the start of every day Isit down with my planner and I
will transfer some of the moreimportant tasks for the day into
my planner and I will gothrough the process of thinking
about them.
And there is doing that in myplanner with a pen and my hand
(45:04):
and just taking a moment with mycup of tea to sit there and
think about my day.
That is not something I I do inthe same way when I'm just
checking the tasks off in asauna yeah, the the act of
sitting down with the planneropen and writing, and, as I
write, each task I think about,like how I approach it and it
becomes a very uh, it's veryintentional.
(45:26):
Actually, I I don't necessarilythink of it that way, but now
that we're talking about it, uh,and I have never been able to
shake having a, an actualphysical paper planner I guess,
I will have one until the day Idie correct.
Speaker 2 (45:42):
Honestly, I wish I wish I had all of my old ones,
because they're and because,because I do, I have.
I have lovely handwriting, uh,and I am very intentional about
the way even the page looks andhow I write notes out and my
handwriting, like I will,literally I'll be like that's a
pretty page, uh, but I have a.
(46:02):
It's not a photographic memoryby any stretch of the
imagination, but I'm a veryvisual person.
Speaker 1 (46:08):
Do you remember where on the side of the page it was
and what color it washighlighted with yes?
Speaker 2 (46:12):
A hundred percent.
Speaker 1 (46:13):
That is.
I've been like that since alittle kid.
Speaker 2 (46:15):
That's how I studied, and, like my cue cards to do
study notes were like colorcoded.
I am, that's how, the way mybrain works, and so I can
literally pull up.
I don't remember what was on myto-do list.
I remember the picture of myto-do list and then I can tell
you what was on my to-do list.
Speaker 1 (46:29):
Yes, yes, that's exactly how I am.
I may not be able to rememberthe words, but I can tell you
where on the page it was, whichside of the page.
It was what color I highlightedit with yes, and it's very,
which helps me to find thingsquickly.
Speaker 2 (46:45):
Yes, yeah me to find things quickly.
And yes, yeah, yeah, verysimilar to if I meet you at an
event.
I can tell you what you werewearing, what room we were in,
probably what you had in yourhand.
Speaker 1 (46:52):
I couldn't tell you what your name is, though,
because that just escapes me,but the other things I know,
yeah, so I, I, yeah, I thinkit's all, uh, I think that's all
far more important than maybewe give it credit for,
particularly if, like I honestlyhave never considered myself a
(47:14):
woo-woo person, but in the last10, 10 to 12 years, probably
since I became self-employed, uh, I have just realized how much
of these things that I wrote offas being silly or, yeah, you
know, whatever are now like.
Now I'm starting to understandhow they actually work and
(47:36):
they're not silly and they'renot woo woo.
There there is something thatis actually happening yes,
scientifically happening in ourbrains, totally yes, like, yes,
like old wives, tales have their.
Speaker 2 (47:50):
they have their origin, like the things that
we've done for years andgenerations, because we just did
.
Speaker 1 (47:55):
I know we talk about cliches and things.
There's a reason.
Something becomes a cliche,it's correct.
Speaker 2 (48:00):
Exactly.
Speaker 1 (48:00):
Absolutely.
Speaker 2 (48:01):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (48:02):
So, yes, so, in terms of, I guess, to kind of get us
to a closing point here, interms of we've talked, to kind
of get us to a closing pointhere, in terms of we've talked
about a few of the things thatwe like to do, I will just give
you a few others that werementioned when I was doing a
little research and, oddly, youand I, between us, have covered
most of the ones that came upover and over.
Speaker 2 (48:22):
Look at us, look at us.
Speaker 1 (48:24):
But a couple that didn't get mentioned.
One was doing things likemorning pages or journaling,
which we did briefly talk abouthere.
But morning pages if you arefamiliar with Julia Cameron and
the Artist's Way, morning pagesis a huge part of that.
I have done morning pages insome form or other for probably
close to two decades now.
(48:45):
That sounds very weird to say,but yes, very, very helpful.
But also, just sitting down andjust doing it doesn't have to
be morning pages, it could befive minutes in a journal before
you start something.
And another one that wasmentioned is actually doing
(49:05):
meditation or breathingexercises before you start, and
we didn't mention this.
I do meditate, but I tend to doit after I finish.
Oh, interesting as a way tokind of center myself and close
the day on my work day.
But yeah, it could absolutelybe a very effective tool.
Yeah, interesting I find my workis the meditation certain parts
(49:29):
of my work are very much and Iget myself into the right flow,
it becomes oh yeah, but totally,meditation and breathing in
particular can really help youcalm your body down and calm it
down is in your head, so I cansee how that would be a really
great one.
And the last one that I'llmention is using affirmations or
(49:52):
visualization techniques to getyou into the right headspace or
to help you with yourconfidence, or just and we don't
talk about this in the artworld more, but elite athletes
do this all the time before theygo out.
They do this, particularly thevisualization.
(50:14):
Visualization yeah, the entirething from going out in the
crowd doing whatever it is thatthey perform, and then all the
way through to winning andreceiving their medal.
So that's not one I have triedmyself, but I think that could
be worth giving a go.
Speaker 2 (50:34):
Visually.
I used to do it for competitivefigure skating.
It's incredibly powerful andvisualizing the finished product
and from start to finish and Ido it quite often when I have
speaking gigs I visualizeliterally walking on stage what
that looks like, greetingeverybody, and I visualize
desired reaction from theaudience.
(50:55):
I visualize closing, finishing,walking off stage and even
saying things like I walk offstage with a steady and
confident pace.
I think those things throughbecause you, if you don't
visualize that, you're like, ohmy God, I'm going to get on
stage, my pants are going tofall down.
That's what's good.
Speaker 1 (51:13):
And the thing is, I bet when you were doing that,
you weren't thinking of it as aritual, you were just thinking
of as preparation, like this ishow I prepare to go up on stage.
But honestly, that's what aritual is it's preparation, it's
preparation.
But honestly, that's what aritual is.
It's preparation, yes, it'spreparation.
It's to do the thing that weneed to do.
Whatever that may be and in ourcase, for a lot of us, ideas of
things you could try but I hopewe've also kind of made you
(51:55):
think about it in a differentway in terms of the science of
it, and I do encourage you, ifyou're curious about this, to go
out and read some of thearticles that are out there.
There's lots of stuff onlinethat tells you a little bit more
about the actual physiologicalthings that are going on in your
brain when you do these things,because there is science behind
(52:18):
it.
There is physiological changesthat happen and that make it
easier for us to actually do thework that we need to do.
Speaker 2 (52:29):
It's like setting us up for success, Like it's.
Well, it's preparedness, rightit is.
Speaker 1 (52:35):
That's what preparation is Exactly.
It's setting yourself up forsuccess and making things easier
for you, but also just bringinga little bit of calm to your
day.
Speaker 2 (52:45):
Yeah, yeah, and joy too, right, like calm and joy,
like what do you?
And that I think what do youneed to have?
What do you need brought to theproject?
And I feel like everybody's andI think that's what's unique
about rituals is it's unique tothe person and what they
themselves need to bring.
What do you need to bring tothe space?
Do you need to bring calm, ordo you need to bring to the
(53:07):
space?
Do you need to bring calm, ordo you need to bring high energy
, or do you need to bring, likewhat do you?
And we all know what we need tobring.
And that's where the that'swhere I think that's what's most
surprising for me about thisepisode, and what we're talking
about is that I know I hadrituals, but I didn't really
think of them as rituals andthen, and so this has forced me,
I think, to think about themand why I do it and actually
(53:30):
understand it a little bitbetter.
And now, now I feel like, funnyenough, when I do some of those
things, it will be, in fact,more deliberately done.
Speaker 1 (53:39):
Probably.
Because I know it's likethere's even greater clarity and
understanding as to therationale why, which, yeah, and
I think one of the importantthings with these is you don't
just have to do them at thestart of something Like if you
hit a roadblock in your day oryou things just aren't going
right or you feel like you needa restart or something like that
(54:01):
.
You can stop and take a momentand do?
I mean?
this is where tea comes in forme.
I often, when I get stuck,that's when I'll get up and I'll
go make a cup of tea, because Iknow it's going to force me to,
like, just settle down and it'squicker than going for a walk,
but it has a similar impact.
And then there's times where Ineed to actually go out of the
(54:25):
house and do that.
So you just made me think inwhat you were saying, I remember
reading Twyla Tharp's book, andTwyla Tharp is a world-renowned
choreographer, very famous, andshe talks about, I think the
book's called the Creative Habit.
Speaker 2 (54:44):
Great book.
Speaker 1 (54:45):
I highly recommend it if you haven't read it.
But one of the things she talksabout is at the start of every
new project she takes a banker'sbox and she starts filling it
with anything that she thinkswill help her with the project.
So sometimes it's research,sometimes it's videotapes,
(55:05):
sometimes it's things she needsto watch and she just that
becomes the base for her projectwhenever she's working on, and
that is kind of her ritual tostart a project, so it can also
be a very practical thing.
It doesn't have to be making teaor meditating or something.
It can be something verypractical that just helps your
(55:25):
brain again feel prepared.
Yeah, so that's reallyinteresting.
Um, shall we leave it there?
Shall we wrap it up now?
Speaker 2 (55:36):
I think yeah that was really interesting.
Honestly, that got my brainticking as it always does.
Speaker 1 (55:40):
Yeah, it's, uh, yeah I, I knew this would be one of
those episodes where I wouldreally think and I don't often
research our episodes, but thisone because I felt like I didn't
know enough about what I wastalking about.
I mean, I know I do thesethings, but I don't really
understand what's going on?
Speaker 2 (55:59):
Yeah, why?
Speaker 1 (56:00):
Physiologically so it was interesting for me to kind
of start reading a little bitand be like huh, okay, Like
there's a reason behind this.
Speaker 2 (56:09):
Yes, method to the madness.
Speaker 1 (56:11):
Method to the madness .
So, on that note, if you havespecific creative rituals that
you do, please feel free toshare them in the.
You can share them in thecomments on the YouTube video,
or you can drop them in the postfor this on for this episode on
Instagram or Facebook.
(56:32):
We'd love to hear them, cause Ithink it's a really cool thing
to talk about and, who knows,maybe what you do might just be
the thing that helps somebodyelse find what they need to get
them, to get them going.
So, yeah, I think we'll leave itthere for this week and, on
(56:53):
that note, as I mentioned at thebeginning of the episode, if
you enjoyed this episode, please, if you're watching on YouTube,
hit the thumbs up button orleave us a comment.
Both of those are reallyhelpful.
If you're listening on yourpodcast app, we'd love a review
or a star rating.
That, again, would be veryhelpful to getting the show
found and it tells us that youlove us it validates us, which
(57:18):
is always nice to hear.
Speaker 2 (57:19):
Everybody likes that.
Speaker 1 (57:27):
I actually did a pop-up market on the weekend and
one of the vendors came up tome and told me that she loved
the show and she had beenwatching it on YouTube.
I had no idea that she watchedand I was like thank you for
telling me.
You never know.
You never know right Exactly,but it is so nice when you hear
from somebody that what you'redoing is making an impact on
what they do.
So.
All right, everyone on thatnote.
(57:48):
That is it for this week.
We will be back in two weekswith another brand new episode
and, of course, Prep for theHolidays is continuing on
through.
The Prep for the Holidaysseason and, excuse me, Heather
will be back with us next monthfor another new episode.
We don't know what it'll beabout, but it will be
(58:09):
interesting.
All right, everyone.
Speaker 2 (58:12):
That's part of our ritual.
Speaker 1 (58:15):
Thank you so much for listening and we will talk to
you all soon.
Thank you so much for joiningus for the Anshi Looked Up
Creative Hour.
If you're looking for links orresources mentioned in this
episode, you can find detailedshow notes on our website at
andshelookedupcom.
While you're there, be sure tosign up for our newsletter for
(58:37):
more business tips, profiles ofinspiring Canadian creative
women and so much more.
If you enjoyed this episode,please be sure to subscribe to
the show via your podcast app ofchoice so you never miss an
episode.
We always love to hear from you, so we'd love it if you'd leave
us a review through iTunes orApple Podcasts.
Drop us a note via our websiteat andshelookedupcom or come say
(59:00):
hi on Instagram atandshelookedup.
Thanks for listening and we'llsee you next week.
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