December 30, 2024 • 66 mins
As we close out 2024, Heather and Melissa reflect on the ups and downs of the past year and look ahead to what's coming in 2025. This episode highlights the core theme of finding joy amid challenges as we close out one year and being another.
Here's a quick recap of what we get into!
• Recap of 2024 and its unexpected challenges
• Importance of joy in art and creativity
• Personal growth through grief and creativity
• Strategies for nurturing community and connection
• Setting intentions for a vibrant 2025
• Encouragement to embrace personal projects and small victories
This episode is brought to you by our Premium Subscriber Community on Patreon and Buzzsprout.
You can find Melissa at finelimedesigns.com, finelimeillustrations.com or on Instagram @finelimedesigns.
You can find Heather at heatherlynnetravis.com or on Instagram @heathertravis.
You can connect with the podcast on:
- Instagram at @andshelookedup
- YouTube
- Tik Tok at @AndSheLookedUp
For a list of all available episodes, please visit:
And She Looked Up Creative Hour Podcast
Each week The And She Looked Up Podcast sits down with inspiring Canadian women who create for a living. We talk about their creative journeys and their best business tips, as well as the creative and business mindset issues all creative entrepreneurs struggle with. This podcast is for Canadian artists, makers and creators who want to find a way to make a living doing what they love.
Your host, Melissa Hartfiel (@finelimedesigns), left a 20 year career in corporate retail and has been happily self-employed as a working creative since 2010. She's a graphic designer, writer and illustrator as well as the co-founder of a multi-six figure a year business in the digital content space. She resides just outside of Vancouver, BC.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
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I can't tell you how much Iappreciate all our monthly
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They are the engine that keepsthe podcast running and they're
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(01:03):
And now let's get on with theshow.
Welcome to the and she Looked Uppodcast.
Each week we sit down withinspiring Canadian women who
create for a living.
(01:24):
We talk about their creativejourneys and their best business
tips, as well as the creativeand business mindset issues all
creative entrepreneurs strugglewith.
I'm your host, melissaHartfield, and, after leaving a
20-year career in corporateretail, I've been happily
self-employed for 12 years.
I'm a graphic designer, anillustrator and a
multi-six-figure-a-yearentrepreneur in the digital
(01:46):
content space.
This podcast is for the artists, the makers and the creatives
who want to find a way to make aliving doing what they love.
Hello everyone, and welcome toanother episode of the and she
Looked Up podcast.
As always, I am your host,melissa, and this is the last
(02:11):
episode of 2024.
So, of course, heather Travisis here with me today.
Hello, hey, heather.
So, yes, this is going to beour last episode for the year,
not for the season, just for2024.
So we thought we would do one ofour kind of recap, looking to
(02:34):
the future type episodes that wetend to do every year.
We thought about stopping them,but then we heard from several
of you that you really likethose ones.
So here we are.
Here we go.
So, yes, we are going to well.
I guess we'll just start offmaybe with just a little bit of
(02:55):
a recap on how our 2024s went,and then we'll get into what we
have planned for 2025 or wherewe think things are going in
2025, and maybe talk about someof the challenges that I know a
lot of us are worried about fornext year.
Yeah, so yeah, heather, how hasyour year been?
(03:18):
What has your year been?
This?
Speaker 2 (03:21):
year's been crazy.
It's been totally unexpected.
Honestly, if you had asked metwo years ago where I thought
2024 would be, uh, I woulddefinitely not have said where
it was.
Uh it.
I took a full-time job, whichmany of the podcast listeners
know, and that's been just atotal gift, and I think it's
(03:46):
more the industry that I'm indevelopmental services it's been
a really I feel like the Grinch.
Every day my heart grows twosizes bigger and I experience
that every day, which is such ablessing.
Artistically, I haven't createda lot.
You know, wrapping up myexhibition was a big deal and
(04:06):
really exalt.
Like that whole process wasabsolutely, absolutely
shattering.
It was the most beautifulshattering, like I couldn't have
asked to be shattered for anybetter reason, but I was
shattered and like just mentally, physically, everything, even
artistically.
And I think part of whatcontributed to the hesitation to
(04:31):
create a little bit more isthat I have a lot of unsold
artwork from that exhibitionstill, and I try very hard to
not let that be deflating, butit is because every time I go to
my studio to create, there is astack of canvases of unsold
artwork that I'm incrediblyproud of.
(04:52):
And so, while I am a veryfrugal person and quite often
repaint canvases once they'vesort of you know, lived their
life.
So much of the work for thatexhibition will never get
painted over it.
It lives.
It will always live, whetherit's in a thrift shop or in my
mom's garage.
(05:13):
Uh, it will live.
It needs, at least I need, togive it the opportunity to live
its life as a created piece ofartwork that I meant and very
was so deliberate about puttingit on the canvas, but it is
still deflated.
It hasn't sold.
I have been doing a lot ofexperimenting.
(05:34):
We talked about that in aprevious episode.
This year has been a hugelyexperimental trying different
things, not sharing it online,different things not sharing it
online, which is experimental initself for me, keeping things
to myself and just trying things, throwing spaghetti against the
wall, metaphorically speaking,and I think that's yeah.
(06:08):
And I think also, too, thisyear has been a lot of
deliberately not doing, and I'mokay.
I'm okay with that.
I needed to shift my focus toother things and I think I've
been flexing my creativity inother places.
I've been doing lots ofinteresting freelance work and
some pretty cool logo design forsome cool clients.
I've been really doing somecool mural projects those fill
my cup up artistically and thework I do even you know it's
(06:30):
creative writing and interestingsocial media posts and you know
I create fun posters and eventtickets and like there's fun
things that I get to docreatively that still fill my
cup.
They're just so totallydifferent from what I had been
doing for the few years beforethat.
But interestingly, when I lookat the years leading up to those
(06:53):
years, they were alsodrastically different.
I think that's the joy of beinga creative is that it's not
actually same same.
It is drastically different andcreatively it's quite cool to
see where the river just takesus, you know so that's kind of
what?
that's kind of what the year'sbeen for me um super highs,
(07:16):
super lows, a lot of holy fuck.
What the fuck is happening withmy life right now.
You know which Melissa and Italked a little bit about
offline, but life is crazy, andbut it also, I think also, the
extreme, the extremes of thisyear have reminded me and have
(07:38):
been such a beautifulopportunity.
I am always a glass half fullperson, and this has reminded me
that that is a gift to be thatperson, and I and the and the
people around me are a gift, andI have a lot of incredible
friends and family and peoplewho I know just through
Instagram, who, whether theyknew it or not, were a great
(08:01):
source of joy in my life, and sothat's, you know, I just keep
trudging along and reflecting onall the good and, yeah, seeing
where it takes me, but I'mlooking forward to 2025, I'll
tell you that much.
Yeah, and what about you,melissa?
2024?
.
Speaker 1 (08:19):
Crazy.
I feel like I'm going to sneezeright now, so I'm just.
I think it might be some sub2024 for me actually like hold,
I'm gonna sneeze just as youwere coming, I knew you were
gonna throw it over to me andI'm like I'm gonna sneeze.
Yeah, 2024 has been, um, notwhat I wanted it to be at all or
(08:44):
not what I thought it would beat all.
And I'm I'm, I'm feeling verymuch at a crossroads right now.
My mastermind group we have ourannual goal setting video call
next week to talk about ourplans for 2025.
(09:09):
And I'm feeling very just, Idon't even know the word to use
lost, maybe Not ho-hum, I mean Ijust more like I don't know the
direction I want to go in orwhere I want to put my focus.
I know I need to make moremoney.
I did not hit my revenue goalthis year.
(09:31):
I made more than last year, butunless I have like an amazing
month in December, but I alreadyknow I'm not going to hit my
and that, Thank you.
Speaker 2 (09:40):
Canada post like do you know how many small?
Speaker 1 (09:42):
businesses got screwed in the last that has
been huge.
Yes, I wound up closing both myEtsy shops.
I kept my Shopify store open.
Most of what I ship goes lettermail, which there's just no
alternative for in Canada, andso I'm using chit chats where I
(10:03):
can, or that was the plan, butanything under 100 grams I still
can't send.
But you know what, based onwhat happened to me and everyone
I've been talking to, onlinesales just dried up as soon as
that strike went into effect.
(10:24):
I haven't had a single ordersince November, like not a
single order since the strikestarted, and I had to delay my.
I do a big sale for mynewsletter subscribers instead
of a Black Friday sale everyyear.
I had to delay that.
About half my customers are inrural areas where there's just
(10:45):
no options.
And it was also, you know, Iconsider myself pro-union and I
was so angry I could go off on arant here.
I probably shouldn't.
I was so angry at thegovernment for deciding to send
(11:05):
them back to work.
You know, a week and a halfbefore Christmas, like that
doesn't help anyone If youweren't going to fix it earlier.
Just let them ride it out.
Let them figure it outthemselves, because you've
ruined it Totally.
You've ruined the season four.
Speaker 2 (11:21):
Oh, totally.
Speaker 1 (11:23):
GST holiday, like the small business minister was on
the news talking about it theother day and I was like we have
a small business minister.
Where have you been all year?
Speaker 2 (11:33):
No kidding News to many.
Speaker 1 (11:35):
And rail strikes and mail strikes, and now you're
throwing this tax holiday at usat the worst time of year for us
to put that into practice, andit's not even a great like when
you actually I can't believe howmany people thought that this
tax holiday was on everything.
Like people, I've seen so manypeople ranting like I went to
(11:58):
Walmart and they charged metaxes on everything and it's
like, yeah, it's only like fouror five categories that are
exempted, so it's just the lackof small business support in
this country this year has beenvery frustrating and you know
your husband runs a smallbusiness.
You run a small business.
Like we all know.
(12:19):
It's been a very frustratingyear and it yep and I have never
, ever.
I've been self-employed for for15 years now and I have never
seen the number of smallbusiness closure notices.
Yes, that I have seen in thelast two months so many
businesses I have known foryears and years have announced
(12:41):
that they're closing at the endof the year permanently and and
so, other than the Canadapost-strike, how has 2024
treated you?
Omit the strike.
I know Well, it's not just thestrike.
Speaker 2 (12:52):
It's just markets.
Speaker 1 (12:54):
I had to cancel all my winter markets because I got
a puppy Very unexpectedly.
Was not planning on bringing apuppy home until next fall.
But life happens, yeah, and yeah, I know he was just, uh, way
too young to leave home alone.
Um, yes, For for full marketdays, so he wasn't vaccinated
(13:18):
yet, so I couldn't leave himright anywhere else.
Yeah, so I canceled my market.
So, so that also was a hit tomy, yeah, a q4 trade-off, but
services wise, I have had mybest q4 that I've ever had.
Amazing.
That has been great.
And if I had had my q4 revenuethat I had been hoping for from
(13:39):
my illustration business, Iwould have hit my revenue goal
for the year, I'm pretty sure.
So, so, you know, a littlefrustrating, but I wouldn't
trade my puppy for anything.
Speaker 2 (13:49):
He is a whirling dervish.
Speaker 1 (13:55):
I have been too exhausted to really do anything
more than what I absolutely haveto get done.
Yeah, but we'll get throughthat.
He's, he's, he's, yeah.
It's just, we're in theteething stage right now and it
takes till.
They're about six months.
You've had dogs, you know it'slike, once they're six months,
things tend to settle down.
Other problems arise, but oh,totally yeah, they don't chew
(14:16):
all the furniture 24, seven oncethey hit about six or seven
months.
So, um, so yeah, there's, Ithink.
But you know, as I was preppingfor this meeting I have next
week, I was looking through allmy goals for the year and I just
I didn't hit anything, like Ijust and I think what I realized
(14:36):
with bringing Joey, my puppyhome in the first few weeks is I
just realized how completelyoverwhelmed with grief I had
been this year and not evenrealizing it.
And you know grief for my dog,grief for my relationship that
ended, grief for having to sella business that I loved, and we
(14:59):
lost some family members thissummer.
Like it's just, it all justcompounded and I thought I was
managing it, dealing with it.
But once Grief is tricky likethat, grief is very tricky and
it's never the same twice Likeit's different every, every.
So yeah, and then bringing thispuppy home and suddenly
(15:21):
realizing how much I had to bepresent.
Yes, I realized how much I hadnot been present all year, like
it was, like I completelydetached from the world and was
just basically doing the work Ihad to do, and then in the
evening, just sitting therewatching TV and doing nothing,
(15:43):
eating basically, and, andexcept during gardening season,
I'd go out and garden for anhour.
Speaker 2 (15:50):
Right.
Speaker 1 (15:50):
And that seemed to be the only thing that kind of
soothed my soul a little bit.
So so yeah, it's been kind of.
It hasn't been the year that Iwanted I, I, I, yeah it it is.
It's been a blip, I think.
I hope it's a blip, but I feellike I'm starting.
I feel like this puppy hasforced me to come out of the
(16:13):
mist and really start focusingon other things and that is what
I'm hoping to do.
But as we get into talking about2025 and I don't know how you
feel about this or what but oneof the things is I've been
really thinking about what Iwant to do is a lot of my goals
for 2025 are similar-ish to 2024, with a few exceptions, but
(16:39):
what I realized is that I'mdoing the same thing every year
to try and accomplish thesegoals, and I'm not really moving
the needle in the way that Iwant to, and so I think that's
where I'm a little bit stuckright now, and why I'm feeling a
bit blah is because I feel likeI feel like I can't keep doing
the same thing over and over.
(17:00):
You know the definition ofinsanity is like banging your
hands around and expectingthings change, or doing the same
thing over and over again andwondering why nothing changes.
And so I just realized a lot ofthe strategies I'm using are
strategies that worked five orsix years ago, but I think they
don't work anymore and I think Idon't know what does work.
(17:22):
I don't know what direction togo in with all the things that
I'm thinking about for 2025.
And I feel like there needs tobe a big shakeup, and I think
part of the reason I was doingthe same thing over and over
again is because it did work fora long time.
Yeah to keep doing things youknow work, even though it's not
(17:44):
necessarily pushing the envelopeforward or challenging you or
pushing you out of your comfortzone.
So that is what I.
That's sort of where I've endedthe year and now I'm trying to
like I have a list of things I'dlike to see happen in 2025, but
I don't know how to make themhappen.
(18:05):
I'm feeling very lost and alittle bit yeah, lost I guess
that's the best word for it.
Yep, yes, yeah.
Anyway, thank you for lettingme vent and have a little
therapy session there, because Ithink I needed it.
Thank you all for listening tothat.
(18:26):
Yeah exactly yeah.
So for 2025, what are youhoping to see happen?
Like you've got a lot that's influx right now.
So have you put together someideas of what you want to see in
2025?
Are you just going to wing itor somewhere in between?
Speaker 2 (18:47):
Somewhere in between.
Honestly, I waffle between.
I mean, my general modusoperandi for a lot of things is
like fuck around and find out.
At the same time, I feel likethere is an opportunity to shake
things up and you know I can'tlike one one of the deep
thoughts I do a lot of.
(19:07):
I need a whiteboard in theshower, or like I need Alexa in
the shower.
I need something so that I canbe like capture my thought,
because the number of times Iliterally yell from the shower
to Brian, I'm like get a notepadBecause I have a lot of deep
thoughts in the shower.
But one of the thoughts thatI've had recently is if I am so
(19:28):
proud of this artwork, what isit doing stacked in my studio?
Speaker 1 (19:32):
I was going to ask you that.
That was one of my questions.
Speaker 2 (19:35):
Yeah, and so how can I get more eyeballs on it?
Is that hosting more studioopen houses?
More studio open houses?
Is that the, the only hitch,and you know it's.
It's just a logistics nightmareto get everything from point a
to point b.
That's the, the hitch with myartwork.
It's large to require, like itdoesn't all fit in my car.
(19:56):
I would need to drive back andforth four or five times.
Uh, a couple of the piecesdon't even fit in my car.
Like it's just that just won'twork, and so, logistically, I
need to figure that out.
I need to, I need.
There's a few things that Ijust need to jump over.
And if it's worth the hurdle,so if it's not a weekend of
(20:20):
showing my artwork and medriving back and forth, but if
it's a month long, you knowopportunity, and that's where I
just need to.
I need to make thoseopportunities, because I think
one of the things that I havegotten complacent on is that
recently things just started tosort of come to me, and I know
(20:40):
that you make your own luck.
So obviously I was puttingmyself out there, I was talking
to the right people, I hadartwork hanging in the right
places in order for all of thethings to come to me, but right
now I'm sort of just.
I feel like I'm riding a horse.
I've been riding too long.
Speaker 1 (20:57):
That's a good way to put it.
Speaker 2 (20:58):
Yes, yeah, and I just need to change it up a little
bit, um, and so that's my big Iknow it sounds waffly, but
that's my big thing for 2025 is,I think I need to to change
things up, uh, and perhapschange focus a little bit.
I really love doing murals,like really, really, they
(21:23):
require quite a lot of pitchingeffort.
That's something I need to findtime to do, but I think if I
dedicate myself to it, that'ssomething I could be successful
with.
And so there's a couple thingsthat I just want to do more of.
And yeah, and I'm okay changingit up honestly, and I'm okay
(21:43):
changing it up honestly, I'mokay changing it up.
I am quite happy to to like,I'm an.
I just did a talk recently buthow you identify, and one of the
things was how you identifyyourself and I, even though I
have a full-time job, I stillconsider that my side hustle.
When I sit down next tosomebody at a dinner party, when
I meet somebody in line at thepost office, what do you do?
(22:03):
I'm an artist with a capital A.
I'm an artist.
That's how I identify, but thatdoesn't mean that I just paint
on canvas or that I'm just amuralist.
It could mean a lot ofdifferent things, and so I'm
quite happy to embrace thecapital A artist and just wind
wherever that takes me, but Ithink I really do.
(22:23):
To continue the analogy, Ireally think I need to get a new
horse.
Speaker 1 (22:28):
Yeah, I fully.
I think you and I are feelingvery similar actually, and I
think the way you just said it,you know just been riding the
same horse for too long.
I think that's a really goodway to kind of capture how I'm
feeling too is just uh, justneed to shake it up.
(22:49):
I don't like being a follower, Ilike being a forges their own
path, and you are very similarin that respect and uh, yeah,
right now I feel like I'm justkind of treading water, treading
, yeah, and and not um, yeah, sothat's.
And you said something elsethere too that, um, I was
(23:11):
thinking about earlier this weekspeaking to somebody else about
how, um, um, not notnecessarily that you are lucky,
but that you kind of make yourown luck and you plant a lot of
seeds and you get things in theright places and it comes to
fruition, and I think that's soimportant.
We've talked about this a lot onthe show, about planting seeds
(23:31):
and getting things out there andthat does have a snowball
effect.
And then it starts to snowballand you have all these things
coming in and you're having agreat time doing them all.
But while you're focused onthem all, you stop putting seeds
out right and so.
I think that's a challenge for alot of us is like we put the
seeds out, things starthappening, and then we get so
(23:53):
caught up in executing all theseamazing things that the seeds
we stopped scattering the seedsCorrect, and so when those
things come to an end, we'relike, ah, I got to go back out
into the garden and chuck someseeds around again, exactly.
I think that's probably wherewe're both at.
We've kind of and that's one ofthe things I really noticed
(24:13):
this year.
Like I I was getting at thebeginning of the year I got so
much word of mouth um, uh mouthbusiness for the services side
of what I do, and so I was justmadly trying to bring all these
people on and not screw thingsup too badly, which I kind of
did, but that forced me to getsystems in place.
Fortunately, I don't thinkanybody really noticed beyond me
(24:36):
, but I was completelyoverwhelmed, and so, you know,
got systems in place, butbecause I was just trying to,
and so, you know, got systems inplace, but in because I was
just trying to get everythinggoing and it all happened so
quickly I stopped sending out mynewsletter.
I stopped doing a lot of thethings that helped me generate a
lot of those leads.
And so now here I am inDecember and I realized neither
(24:57):
of my newsletter lists havegrown this year like at all,
cause I have just stoppedputting yeah, I've just, I've
just stopped.
And so that's one of the bigthings for me for 2025 is I just
need to be more visible again.
I need to, and social media isjust not the way to do it Like
anymore for me.
I'm, you know I'm not leavingsocial media or anything like
(25:19):
that, but it is not the eyeballgenerator that it used to be.
Speaker 2 (25:24):
Oh God, no, and honestly, the amount of times
that like people are like, wow,that looks cool, and they ask a
question, that I'm like, wow, Ihave posted about this 57
million fucking times and thisyou're acting like this is the
first time you've seen it?
It probably is, and that'sexactly it, and that happens
more often than not, includingpeople who I, and this still
(25:46):
bamboozled me, honestly, becauseI guess, when you don't have a
business account, when you don'tmake your account on Instagram
professional, you do not haveaccess to insights.
But Melissa and I and everysmall business owner or even any
person who calls themselves adigital creator, has access, and
it blows my mind.
They're like you can see that Isaw your stories.
I'm like, yes, I have told youthis for a decade.
(26:08):
I can see who has seen mystories, and it blows my mind
when I know for a fact you haveseen quote everything and yet
you're asking this question likeyou've just seen it for the
first time.
Speaker 1 (26:19):
But that says a lot about how we interact with
social media.
Like we're just mindlesslyscrolling it or watching it, but
we're not processing it, no,and so I think you know, yeah,
people are seeing your stuff,but they're not seeing your
stuff.
Speaker 2 (26:35):
And that's exactly it , so like it needs to be.
I mean, I use LinkedIn a lotmore deliberately.
I've been failing at that alittle bit, but that's, I think,
for me.
I set a goal for using LinkedInmore strategically a couple of
years ago and I again.
It was a planting, a seed.
I did it, it yielded, and then Iforgot to go back and do it all
(26:56):
again, and so a lot of my goalsare actually like and so it's
funny, we say we're trying, butsome of them I'm like no, I need
to go back and do that againbecause that was actually worth
it.
And then, yeah, there's acouple of things, but I think I
just need to shake things up.
I think that's the big thingfor me for 2025 is really to
shake things up and honestly,it's funny I started that
(27:23):
sentence that way but to be alittle bit more honest with
myself.
I think a lot of this 2024 year, I was conning myself into
thinking I was doing more than Iwas.
Speaker 1 (27:39):
Yeah and uh, yeah and I mean, I know it's okay, I'm
fine, okay but it's fine to notdo as much and I think you had
an incredibly intense couple ofyears leading up to your
exhibition and you, you knowit's that whole wave energy.
You needed to ride the wave inand just sit on the beach for a
little bit, totally.
And I think it's the same withgrief.
(28:00):
You do all this, you know.
Grief forces you to sit for or,um, you know, just process
things differently or notprocess them, or whatever the
case may be, and I think yeah um, yeah, and I think you're right
.
I was the whole conningyourself like I thought I was
busy, I thought I was doingstuff, and it wasn't until
(28:20):
something came along that shookthings up.
I was like I wasn't doing.
I think you're right.
I was the whole conningyourself Like I thought I was
busy, I thought I was doingstuff, and it wasn't until
something came along that shookthings up, I was like I wasn't
doing anything Correct, exactly.
Speaker 2 (28:28):
And it's funny because, you know, when I look
and think I'm like, yeah, I'vecreated stuff, and I'm like, wow
, I made and sold one painting.
You know yay me, but still, uh,you know yay me, but still like
it was more than zero.
And that's exactly it.
It's not zero, uh, and so Ihave to remind myself of that,
(28:48):
uh.
At the same time, you know, I,I think I felt like I was doing
more and even, yeah, I feel Ithink I felt like I was doing
more, and until I actually satback and started looking at it
and took like a real hard look,yeah, I was really glass half
fulling it, yeah, what.
Speaker 1 (29:08):
What are you thinking you might like to do in 2025?
Is there anything you want thatyou can share with us, or would
like to share with us, or?
Speaker 2 (29:15):
I think for sure the murals like really stepping up
the mural game is a big one.
Um, I have been doing some logodesign projects and I would
love to.
There's a lot of reallyinteresting things.
I think it's maybe being backin that sort of business world
and it's not so much logo design, interestingly, because I find
that, depending on the client,tricky.
Speaker 1 (29:36):
I don't do branding anymore and I'm a graphic
designer.
Yeah, exactly, I don't dobranding anymore.
Speaker 2 (29:40):
And I'm a graphic designer.
Yeah, exactly, I don't dobranding, but you know, I see so
much opportunity for creativepractice in business, and so I
have been approached for somereally interesting things to do
with Shart for 2025.
And that has tickled my brain,uh, in what is also an
(30:02):
opportunity to sort of expandthe to, to blow my sharts out of
the water.
Uh, because that, the joy thatshart brings the uh, we'll call
it art therapy nature of it issomething that has really
tickled my brain and why it hasalways kept kept ongoing for me,
(30:24):
and even recently, the lastchart, which was Saturday
December 7th.
When we did it, I had multiplepeople and I did it.
So the exercise was a breathingexercise, alternating between
our dominant hand and ournon-dominant hand, quite
literally drawing a Christmastree, but with every breath in
and every breath out, you dosort of a line of the Christmas
(30:47):
tree and you can sort of.
If you're looking on YouTuberight now, you can see the, the
video, the way my hands aremoving.
But it's a very elementaryChristmas tree, nothing deep or
meaningful about it, no artisticskills or talent required, and
it was just a reminder.
And it was a reminder that Ineeded to give myself, which was
to just take deep breaths andbe present in the moment and
enjoy the process.
(31:08):
And I had multiple people sendme text messages and DMs after
saying I was having a shitmorning and I logged on
Instagram and there you were andI did this and like 20 minutes
later, I feel right with theworld.
Thank you so much, and that Idon't care that it was only 20
(31:29):
odd people who were on thatsession and that three of them
took the time to reach out.
That was the greatest gift thatI could have received was
hearing that feedback and that Iwant those gold stars.
That's what I want for 2025.
It's not me, and so it's notabout me and the gold stars,
what it is and I joke, but thegift of giving that and being
(31:52):
that person through art andthrough just being real has
something that has reallytickled me this year and has
sustained me.
Being able to do chart hassustained me, and that
connection in the community andI would like, and so sorry, to
tie that back together.
Doing branding exercises andbrand strategy and understanding
(32:14):
that teams of people and Iunderstand this from where I
work, teams of people arestressed, underpaid, overworked.
They need to feel connectionwith community, they need
reminders that they're specialand important and meaningful and
that their contributions arevalued, and taking time to do
something creative, whether theresult is awesome or shitty.
(32:35):
Hence shart is a greatopportunity to bring that in,
and so I would like to do more.
We'll call it corporate art, soboth corporate branding, so
murals in offices to liven upteams and bring happiness and
joy and color to spaces andplaces where people spend nine
(32:56):
to five, but also throughworkshops and seminars.
That's something that I wouldlike to do more of and that was
only tickled, interestingly,because somebody who was a
member of the Shark communityreached out to me with a really
interesting proposal and I won'ttalk about it because I haven't
signed anything yet.
It's still in discussions, butthere could be like a whole
(33:18):
exciting opportunity for Sharkthat just brings it to more
people, and I would love.
I just, I think that's a yeah,I just want to Sharch all over
the world.
Speaker 1 (33:29):
That's awesome.
I think you'd be so good atthat too.
I think, that totally fits justall your, your whole skill set
that you have and the type ofperson you are.
So that's, that's really coolyeah.
Speaker 2 (33:39):
Yeah, so that's.
It's really cool.
Yeah, yeah, so that's it.
But that and so, so for me,that's shaking things up.
That's for 2025, shaking thingsout, finding a new horse,
revisiting some perhaps oldgoals that worked well, and then
ditching things that didn't,and then really and really
planting seeds.
I think that's a big one, touse that language.
That's a big one for me for2025 is to I still want to ride
(34:04):
through the world as arhinestone cowboy who declares
herself an artist, and I can'tride that horse if I don't at
least try some new things thisyear.
Speaker 1 (34:17):
Yeah, I think that's part of being a creative is you
have to be willing to try newthings.
That's the, that's whatcreating is.
Speaker 2 (34:27):
You're creating correct, exactly and like once I
don't.
I am not an assembly line, andso that's.
I think the big thing is that Istarted becoming a little
assembly line-ish.
Not that I created the samething over and over again, but I
felt a little stagnant andthat's yeah, rode the same horse
too long.
That was the.
So this year we're we'regetting a new horse and we're
(34:49):
bedazzling the saddle.
Speaker 1 (34:52):
Yes, I think so.
Speaker 2 (34:54):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (34:54):
Mm-hmm, yeah for 2025,.
I think one of the decisions Imade in 2024 was to become
rightly or wrongly was to justavoid anything negative on my
Instagram.
I just stopped talking aboutpolitics.
(35:17):
The news all that stuff, whichis something I've always been
fairly vocal about, and I justdecided I really just wanted my
Instagram to become a place thatwould be joyful to people.
It was a very consciousdecision.
It doesn't mean I'm not engagedin the world, it's just I've
just chosen not to use that asmy venue to be engaged with the
(35:41):
world.
Yeah, yeah, and so that issomething I really want to focus
on for 2025 is just frighteningpeople's day.
Like honestly, when I go back tohow everything started with my
illustration business, it waswith this little red-haired
(36:02):
stick character, miss doodle,who people just fell in love
with.
And the reason they fell inlove with was not because she
was great art, she's not, she'sa, she's a stick figure, as I as
I say all the time.
But she's perfect.
She is perfect.
And it's so funny how, um, overthe of, I don't know I've been
(36:22):
drawing her.
It's probably about 10 yearsnow that I've been drawing her,
at least, yep and it is so funnyhow emotionally attached I have
become to this little figure.
She is a person to me, totallyyes, with a full personality and
a soul and everything.
Totally yes.
Speaker 2 (36:41):
Just like Casey and Finnegan.
Yes.
Speaker 1 (36:44):
And I don't.
I haven't been drawing her asmuch because I've just been
focusing on other types ofartwork and stuff and, let's be
honest, I've been trying tocreate things that are a little
more commercial.
Because I got to sell to makemoney Yep, totally, I hear you.
Because I got to sell to makemoney yeah totally.
I hear you, yeah, but the reasonI went down the road of
(37:09):
starting an illustrationbusiness was because of Miss
Doodle and how she made peoplefeel.
Everybody used to message meand say I love seeing her.
She brightens my day Totally.
I feel, like the state that theworld is in right now, that we
need those little snippets.
(37:30):
You know, you see a lot ofstuff on social media.
I don't know how people cantalk about these things that
don't matter when there's allthis stuff going on in the world
.
That is really, really heavy.
And you know I'm trying tofigure out how to word this
without sounding obnoxious.
Speaker 2 (37:56):
I understand where you're going.
Yes, it's.
Speaker 1 (38:00):
If you look back in not far back in history, but
fairly recent history, so likelet's take World War II as an
example, or the Great Depressionthe Great Depression saw this
outpouring of the movie industry.
The movie industry took offduring the Great Depression.
It was like one of the goldenages of Hollywood.
(38:22):
It was like one of the goldenages of Hollywood and the reason
was it was an escape mechanismfor people who were miserable.
It was a dime to go see a movieand people could somehow manage
to find that dime.
And a dime sounds like penniesto us today, but you know, a
dime was a lot of money backthen.
You could go get a piece of piein a diner for 40 cents with a
(38:49):
coffee, right, so, but that is.
It was out of despair that thisindustry became huge.
And then you move on to WorldWar II and again the movie
industry had another boombecause it was a way for people
to just for a moment, for anhour and a half, escape the
(39:10):
misery that was going on in theworld, and it was an escape
mechanism.
Then we had the pandemic.
And where did everyone flock?
To Netflix, youtube, everywherethese people where there was
just stuff to take your mind offit, and I think that, while it
is very important for us to beaware of what's going on out in
(39:31):
the world, because we'recitizens of this planet and you
know I do feel very stronglythat we need to be aware and we
need to fight the things that wethink are wrong, and we need to
do all that.
But at the same time, we need totake breaks.
Speaker 2 (39:48):
We need to have moments of joy.
Speaker 1 (39:50):
We need to have moments of things that we can
celebrate or that pick us up,because fighting the fight is
exhausting, yes, mentally,physically, and it's just.
It's a lot.
And I also find it reallyinteresting the way boomers get
kind of bashed around and if youlook back in history to the
(40:12):
people who were raising theboomers, these were the people
who went through the depressionand the world war.
These are veterans who came homewith no mental health support,
who had seen atrocious thingsand they, just they, did the
best they could, right With whatthey were dealing with, and
this is why, when you see thingsthat are going on in other
(40:33):
war-torn areas across the globe,we're just creating more
generations of people who aregoing to be raising kids who
have experienced tremendoustrauma and now we're trying to
raise children right.
Yes, that is going to impactthose children.
It's yeah.
There's just no way around it.
Um, yeah, so it's it.
(40:53):
I I do think for us ascreatives, where I'm going with
this is for us as creatives,there is absolutely a place for
us to bring joy and to givepeople a moment to have that
just little boost that theymight need.
And I think there's also everbeen for us to have a place in
(41:26):
the world and to remind peoplethat there is beauty out there
and it's worth fighting for.
It's worth you know, like we cando both, and so that is one of
the things I really do want tofocus on for the coming year is
just because I do think thecoming year is going to be very
challenging globally for so manyreasons, and I think there is
(41:50):
going to be a need for people tojust have those little moments
that pick them up and, yeah,just remind them that there's
good things out there, and thosegood things are worth fighting
for so totally, and I think, too, I'm totally with you and
that's and that that's why Shart, for me, is a big cause.
Speaker 2 (42:07):
It's the driver is, it's that moment of respite, but
also a reminder of theconnection of community.
Particularly and and this iswhat I love about Shart is that
we have people quite literallytune in from all over the globe.
I have people who tune inregularly from Germany and
Australia and then all overCanada and like that is crazy to
(42:29):
me and they've never met eachother, but they follow each
other on Instagram and love eachother through art and that's a
beautiful thing.
And so bringing people togetherfor just a moment of joy
through a creative venue,whether it's a simple doodle or
a breathing exercise, I think, Ithink that that's like.
(42:50):
Those are momentous, those arenot little, those are not little
things.
Speaker 1 (42:54):
It's giving people strength to Totally, to keep
going with whatever it is thatthey are challenged with at this
particular moment in time.
And I just I don't let anybodymake you feel like now is not
the time to make art, or now isnot the time to celebrate these
little things.
It is always the time to.
Speaker 2 (43:16):
And the best music, like the best music and the best
art comes out of the toughest,like that's pressure makes
diamonds.
That's what happens, and so Ithink this is the time, and if
you're stressed about somethingand that's, you know, even my
exhibition like those areopportunities to use your
(43:39):
creativity as therapy foryourself as a creative.
So, like express yourself andyou'll find community around,
whatever it is that you'retrying, like, yeah, yeah, I,
yeah, I'm totally with you I'mjust I'm gonna hold it up.
Speaker 1 (43:53):
I don't.
You won't be able to see it ifyou're just listening, but if
you're on youtube, you'll beable to see her.
Um, this has been.
This was made by a ukrainianartist that I have followed for
years.
She's like Miss Doodle she is,but she's Miss Sunshine, yes,
isn't she?
Freaking, adorable, adorable.
Anyway, this particular artistwe've been following each other
(44:21):
on Instagram for years,pre-conflict.
She lost her husband in the warin Ukraine.
He was killed, and she has ayoung daughter and a dog and
she's still creating amazing art.
She's figuring it out, you know, it's so.
(44:42):
You see these artists who arebeing bombed and losing family
members and things, and they arestill finding a way to create
um, and I think yeah, becauseit's part of us, it's part of
who we are, but at the same.
(45:02):
I think it is therapy for us todo that when we've suffered
great loss, and yeah, anyway.
So that's my little sunshinegirl and I have her on my desk,
so she's actually meant to be apendant.
This woman makes big, chunkyjewelry and the necklace feeds
(45:25):
through these, but I just haveher at my desk and I just like
to look at her.
Every day, when it's sunny,which it isn't very often right
now, I have her on thewindowsill, so the light goes
through.
Speaker 2 (45:35):
Yeah, it comes through.
Exactly.
I was thinking it's like alittle piece of stained glass.
That's awesome, yeah.
Speaker 1 (45:39):
So that's definitely something that is really my
focus for this year and thiscoming year.
And yeah, just like I said,getting in front of more people
and I haven't figured that oneout yet, because I keep
defaulting to social media andit's just not working.
So I have to Yep.
Speaker 2 (45:59):
I'm with you.
Speaker 1 (46:00):
What does that look like?
Speaker 2 (46:01):
Yeah, and I don't know just yet.
Speaker 1 (46:04):
I know, Currently I don't know just yet.
Speaker 2 (46:05):
I know Currently I've decided on a variety.
I've made a list of ridiculousoptions.
So one is literally makingmyself a sandwich board and just
walking around.
I'm like, all right, what arethe stupid things?
And I don't mean to say stupid,because nothing's stupid, goofy
.
Speaker 1 (46:20):
Maybe goofy or silly Goofy, exactly.
Speaker 2 (46:24):
And so it's like, nope, not doing that one, not
doing that one.
But then it's like, well, what?
Why does my mind go to thosegoofy things?
And what is it that is actuallylike viable about it?
I think that's, and so I'mtrying to start from a place of
fun, because otherwise I find ita little stressful.
Speaker 1 (46:38):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, definitely, I think I actually,
I think about your cousinactually alexandra, we had her
on the show.
Yes, yes andrew newbold and uh,how she just goes to clubs and
bars and stuff and draw us andpeople come up to her and ask
her questions and the bands Iknow sometimes ask her, you know
(46:59):
, and I'm just like she's justgoing where she loves to go and
she's totally well, she's thereand I'm like that's really cool.
Speaker 2 (47:06):
It's a great way to honestly, I was at a conference
that I spoke at a couple weeksago.
One of the girls in theaudience and it was a conference
for creative so it was acreative symposium, was the name
of it anyway and one of thegirls in the audience came up to
me and said hey, do you want tosee?
Here's my doodle of yourpresentation.
And literally she had atwo-page spread and she'd done a
(47:28):
little doodle of me and she hadlittle quotables like different
things, and it was like allkind of it was kind of like one
of those whiteboard designs.
Anyway, it was so fantastic andI was like, oh my God, I took,
of course, I took a picture ofit, I shared it on my social
media, like it was absolutely,and it was such a like what a
creative way to capture theconversation.
(47:51):
Like it was an hour and a halflong keynote that I delivered,
so like what a cool way for herto capture all the information.
But then what a neatinteraction opportunity to just
come up, just as you said interms of what Alex does, sitting
in bars, and just like drawingthings and having people like
you.
Just I think it's a simple wayto just put yourself out there
and how can you?
Yeah, I think that's abrilliant example, because
(48:14):
that's such a fun way to shakethings up.
Speaker 1 (48:16):
I've done it at my last two markets.
I did a pop-up in September andI did a market in the spring,
and part of the reason I diddraw at those markets wasn't so
much to strike up conversations,as it was because people didn't
think the artwork on the thingsI sold was mine, and this is a
very common thing that I'mhearing from so many creatives
who have been very active atmarkets this year is just the
(48:37):
frustration level at peoplethinking their work is not
theirs or that they purchasedthe artwork.
So this was my solution I'm justgoing to sit there and draw and
then they can see I'm an artist, and the number of people who
have stopped, who might've goneright past my booth but have
stopped to say, oh, do youactually draw this?
(48:59):
Or or how do you do that?
Because I usually do it on myiPad, cause I'm in a, I'm at a
market and it's just easier.
I have my iPad anyway.
Yeah, totally yeah.
Um, and so they have so manyquestions how do you get the
artwork off your iPad, like, howdo you turn it into a card,
like you know, super curious,and they want to see the whole
process, and that has been areally interesting way to spark
(49:23):
conversations.
Speaker 2 (49:25):
Totally.
Speaker 1 (49:27):
Yeah, so I do think there's a place for that.
People are very curious,particularly if they don't view
themselves as creative as to howother people create, Especially
when they can see it.
Yes, when they just see thefinished item on Instagram, they
don't think twice about how itwas created.
But when they actually see aperson in the process, they're
(49:48):
like oh, that's so cool.
Speaker 2 (49:50):
Yeah, honestly, that's my favorite part of doing
a mural project is havingpeople interrupt me, and they're
always.
You can see the hesitationbecause they're quite literally
interrupting me.
They can tell you're working,but at the same time, yeah, oh
exactly At the same time, likeit makes me so happy to turn
around and stand there with mypaintbrush drying and explain
the whole process because peopleare fascinated by it, and then
(50:14):
it's a memorable opportunity tospeak about your artwork.
It's also a great way to showyour passion for it and I think
that's what particularly just togo back to what we were saying
earlier on the sort of sharingjoy as a creative, when people
see what you do and see that youactually love what you do, I
think that that is a huge like.
The appreciation they have, Ithink, is even deeper Because
(50:35):
you're not just doing it for thedollar, you're doing it because
there's a deep and like whenyou talk about your process and
you talk about how you do things, it could be same same for a
lot of people.
It could also be incrediblyunique to you.
Regardless a person, if they'veasked the question, they want
to hear the answer and I thinkthat's such a great opportunity
(50:56):
for connection.
Speaker 1 (50:57):
It's a great way for people to understand that this
is a craft yeah, that this is,that it takes skill, that it
takes thought, that there isyeah, because people don't
necessarily appreciate that.
But when they actually see theprocess and they talk to you and
they understand what goes intoit and they start to realize
(51:17):
it's not just drawing somethingon a piece of paper and suddenly
magically it turns intosomething else you know, or they
start to understand thatthere's a lot more to it and
it's, it's really cool to seethe yes, the understanding and
(51:37):
come into their eyes as they arelike totally, and there's
actually a lot of work that goesinto this And's it's, it's cool
.
So yeah yeah, I think that's agreat one.
The other thing I started to doand I've been having so much
fun with it a friend actuallyasked me if I would consider
doing a calendar for 2025 and Ihad cool thought about it, but I
(51:59):
have always done.
You can kind of see them in thebackground.
It's blurred, but they're upthere.
I did do a couple of theselittle doodles eons ago for
certain months of the year, andit was just little things for
the month, and then I startedthinking about doing one for
(52:20):
Advent, just because it's 24days, right, yeah and so I did.
I'm gonna see if I can here.
So this is my sketchbook.
This is a sketchbook that Ihave been very precious about.
There is only one other, andthis is from years ago.
Wow, and then the rest of thebook is empty.
(52:41):
I didn't want to mess thesketchbook up.
It's a very nice, ratherexpensive sketchbook and I just
wanted everything in it to beperfect.
Speaker 2 (52:50):
It's such a dumb thing.
Speaker 1 (52:51):
And I know there are so many other illustrators and
artists out there going yes, yes, I do the same thing.
I feel very seen right nowactually.
We have these precioussketchbooks where we just, oh, I
know, right now, actually, wehave these precious sketchbooks
where we just uh, I know.
So anyway, I was like I have tostart using this because I
can't go out and buy another.
You know, I can't keep buyingsketchbooks that I never fill
(53:12):
correct.
So I thought you know what?
What if I just did a littleteeny tiny doodle every day for
advent and I wrote out a list?
here's my list, it's just onhere you can't see it and I came
up with a something for everyday, and so that's what I do,
and now you can, now that youcan actually see the sketchbook,
(53:32):
you can see like these are tiny, yep, tiny.
I'm using a zoom filter so it'shard to, I know, I see really,
really tiny, because the idea isto get all 24 on one page and I
was thinking as I did it, as Istarted working on it, that that
could be a calendar page, but Idon't.
I don't know if it will be ornot, but it has been so fun to
(53:56):
do, they are the perfect size,and I decided to do them with
watercolor.
Speaker 2 (54:01):
I don't know why, because I don't know anything
about watercolor and but that'sit make probably makes it even
more fun because it's so out ofyour comfort zone.
Speaker 1 (54:07):
Yeah I'm very impatient.
You can't be impatient withwatercolor like I'm just I'm not
good at that's.
Speaker 2 (54:12):
I've been experimenting with watercolor
and literally it's like oh mygod, like I'm there's, I'm in
acrylics and I fucking blow drythings like that's how quickly
I'm like dry faster right andit's like if you rush it you
ruin it.
Speaker 1 (54:25):
It's just the first few were just a mess, because I
just no kidding so impatient toadd the next color in and then
just yes, and then I just createpuddles.
Speaker 2 (54:35):
That's what I create pages with puddles on them.
Speaker 1 (54:37):
That's what my watercolors look like so, um, I
am getting more patient and um,but it has been, and I also
changed it from doing it in theevening to it being the first
thing that I do in the morning.
Oh, fun, as kind of like just anice little way to create to
start and they literally take me10 minutes.
Speaker 2 (54:55):
Yeah, yeah, like.
Speaker 1 (54:56):
I got to wait for the paint to dry.
That's why it takes 10 minutes.
It was just the doodle sketch.
It would take like a minute.
Yeah, yeah, yeah Right, that'sperfect though, so that's been
really fun, yeah, and I think Ijust want to do more things like
that.
Just remind myself, and becausethis is a sketchbook project,
(55:17):
it was never meant to beanything more than a page in my
sketchbook for me, anything morethan more a page in my
sketchbook for me, and I think Ineed to do more of that type of
work where it is not about,like you said, you've been doing
stuff this year that youhaven't been sharing yeah and I
think I just need to do more ofthat where, yeah, I'll share it.
If it, if yeah, if it lookstotally, but it's yep, it's.
(55:40):
I shouldn't.
Speaker 2 (55:41):
And you're not making it for anybody.
No, I am making it for me.
Speaker 1 (55:45):
And if I don't share it, it's not a big deal.
Yeah, that's just somethingthat I am doing for myself and I
started thinking about it andI'm like you know I could
probably do that for 365 days.
Speaker 2 (55:58):
I'm not committing to it because I don't want to put
pressure on myself Like it's nota 365 day project.
Speaker 1 (56:03):
No it's just going to be like.
If I can open my sketchbook for10 minutes every morning most
days, I think that that is agood way for me to start the day
, so I definitely want to dothat.
Speaker 2 (56:17):
Yeah Cool.
Speaker 1 (56:18):
So other things that have kind of been weird.
Like you know, I want to domore SEO work this year, but I
don't know what SEO work lookslike in 2025.
Like things have changed sodramatically in the last two
years, so again I could go backand do all those things that I
used to do that I knew workedand that I've kind of neglected.
Speaker 2 (56:40):
But I don't think those work anymore.
I don't think they work anymore.
No kind of neglected.
Speaker 1 (56:42):
I don't think those work anymore and you know
figuring out where the place forAI in my business is, and
because I do think there is aplace for it.
I think there's a place for itfor all of us.
Speaker 2 (56:54):
I've been using it quite interestingly for a lot of
projects, yeah there's lots ofways you can use it.
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (57:00):
I don't think there's a place for it in my creative
process like the actual processof creating for me at this time.
That is not what I want.
It's interesting.
I do a lot of writing for aliving.
I probably make most of myrevenue from writing and I worry
(57:21):
every day that I'm going tolose that to AI.
But this has been my busiestyear and I worry every day that
I'm going to lose that to AI.
Oh yeah, but this has been mybusiest year and frankly, I've
had so many people come to mebecause I don't write with AI
and because they find it verygeneric sounding and they want
somebody who has a voice.
Yeah, and so I think there willbe a place for me, whether it's
writing everything from scratchalways, maybe not, but there
(57:42):
will be a place for me to refinework, writing everything from
scratch always maybe not, butthere will be a place for me to
refine work that's created forsure through so yeah, I think
there's a.
I think it's going to be aninteresting year, technology
wise, for a lot of us.
Um yeah, so um yeah.
I think the only other bigquestion mark I have for next
(58:04):
year is just the state ofbusiness in this country oh,
small business in this country,and I know a lot of people are
very nervous about the tariffsituation which will impact all
of us if you sell on.
Speaker 2 (58:17):
Etsy and things like that, mm-hmm.
Speaker 1 (58:20):
If you sell in your own store, because it's not us
that pays the tariff, it's yourcustomer that pays the tariff,
so it's not us that needs toworry about implementing it.
It's your customer has to worryabout paying it.
So, yep, and I am going to bedoing a Patreon episode for
December on that, to talk aboutthat.
So for those of you who followus on Patreon or on our
(58:40):
Buzzsprout premium subscribernetwork, you will get that
episode, this before the end ofthe year.
Well, actually, it's probablyalready out if you're listening
to this, because this episode isgoing to air on December 30th.
It is not December 30th.
We're recording it.
So if you would like to hearthat, you can sign up for our
Patreon over.
It's just Patreon forward slashand she looked up and yes, I
(59:06):
just want to say first of all,before we wrap up, do you have
anything else you want to shareor are you good?
No, I mean, I think that Iwould like to maybe get on a
soapbox for a millisecond andsay to everybody else who's
listening, I've done it twicetoday so why not?
Speaker 2 (59:22):
Yeah, I think the opportunity.
I think one of the things thatMelissa and I yeah, I think the
opportunity.
I think one of the things thatMelissa and I well, we
consistently agree on a lot ofdifferent things, but I think
one of the things particularlyas we head into 2025, is to
never forget that you need tomake art that makes you happy,
and that I think sharing thatjoy is something we can all step
up our game for in 2025,because I think that that's what
(59:46):
the world needs, and so if wecould all take that as a
personal challenge, I, I think,I think that would be a good
thing yeah, I 100% agree.
Speaker 1 (59:58):
um, I think threads is a very interesting social
media platform I really liked itat first.
I've kind of avoided it nowbecause I find it a very
negative place.
Speaker 2 (01:00:10):
Yes.
Speaker 1 (01:00:10):
Particularly for creatives.
Yes, it feels like it's aventing platform for creatives.
Speaker 2 (01:00:14):
No, kidding yeah.
Speaker 1 (01:00:16):
I don't need that energy.
Speaker 2 (01:00:18):
No, right now.
No, yeah, no, thank you.
Speaker 1 (01:00:23):
So, yeah, I am definitely looking.
I want to see what people arecreating.
I want to see your work.
I want to see what you put outthere.
Send it to me if you need toLike, if you feel like it's not
getting, send it to me.
Send me a DM and say this iswhat I've been working on.
I thought you might like to seeit because I would like to see
it.
Speaker 2 (01:00:43):
Yeah, my favorite DMs are look at my shirt.
Those are my favorite DMs.
Speaker 1 (01:00:54):
Absolutely, absolutely.
One of my absolute favoriteones is a follower who I can't
remember how it came about.
We know each other in real lifeas well and she had mentioned
that her daughter was reallyinto learning to draw and stuff
and I sent her daughter a bunchof my stickers like seconds that
I had that hadn't cut quiteperfectly, and I sent her a
bunch.
This was quite a while ago,Anyway, she sent me for a while.
(01:01:15):
She was sending me some of her.
Every time her daughter createdsomething she would send me a
picture of it and I loved it andI haven't seen anything in
quite a while I hope she's stilldrawing and stuff, but it was
one of my favorite things to get.
It was like um, so yeah, if you,if you, yeah, send me your
artwork Totally.
Oh I love it for sure.
Yes, right, yeah, um, yeah.
(01:01:39):
So, uh, yes, bring more joy in2025, because I think we're
going to be dealing with a lotof hard things in 2025.
So if you can bring more joy tothe table for yourself or for
others, or just share it, Ithink there's a place for you
and there's other places toshare.
Besides, I created a bunch ofbookmarks this year which I kind
(01:02:03):
of love, and I've decided I'mjust going to stick them into
library books when I return thebooks to the library.
That's amazing, yeah.
Speaker 2 (01:02:10):
Do it.
Speaker 1 (01:02:10):
I did start to wonder if, like they shake the books
out, you know when they, beforethey put them back on the shelf.
Speaker 2 (01:02:15):
I don't think they do .
Speaker 1 (01:02:16):
I don't know, I don't , I don't know if they do, but
one thing I have noticed is onhardbacks you know they cover
them with that plastic wrap atthe library and I have taken out
books very often that have theperson's library receipt with
the due date yes, shoved in theside I love finding those,
because I am a mystery readerand usually Me too I find new
(01:02:38):
mystery authors.
It's like that person reallythey liked this book and they
read these other ones.
I'm gonna try these other onesanyway.
So I thought about shoving thebookmarks in that slot, because
I don't think I fall out ofthere.
So anyway, I'm just gonna dothat, just you know totally I
like the bookmarks, so these arereaders they obviously.
Speaker 2 (01:02:57):
Yes, use bookmarks yeah, yeah, yeah, you could even
do it.
You could even do it in, likeyour favorite books, like go
into a bookstore and put theminto books that people are going
to actually buy and take homeyou could.
Speaker 1 (01:03:10):
I think they're far less likely to get shaken.
I don't know if you'd get introuble or not.
I mean, I guess, if somebodyspotted you.
Speaker 2 (01:03:16):
I feel like they're far less likely to get shaken in
a bookstore.
Speaker 1 (01:03:19):
Exactly.
They don't pick them up whenyou go to the checkout and shake
them out, right?
No, exactly A librarian cares.
Speaker 2 (01:03:25):
A Chapters employee could give two shits.
Speaker 1 (01:03:30):
No, I just went and I apologize profusely if you're a
Chapters employee, but this isthe generalization.
Speaker 2 (01:03:35):
I'm going to put one on a different level when it
comes for love of books.
Speaker 1 (01:03:39):
I went to Chapters last week and bought a couple
books and nobody shook them out.
No Same with the magazine.
Nobody shook that out.
So, yeah, you probably could,but I feel like the library is
like my kindred spirit.
People.
Speaker 2 (01:03:54):
Oh, totally yeah, and that's a good place to love
bomb things.
They're there reading forthemselves, right?
As opposed to buying gifts forthem.
Speaker 1 (01:04:00):
Yes, anyway, yeah.
So maybe that's just a.
I'm doing it to spread joy, but, who knows, it could plant a
seed for my business as well atthe same.
Yeah, the same time.
Yeah, so I think we'll probablywrap up here.
Uh, before we wrap up, I do justwant to thank all our patrons
(01:04:22):
on both platforms who havesupported the show this year.
It is why the show keeps going.
So, for all of you listening,those people are the reason that
we're still here.
So thank you so much to all ofyou and for the wonderful
feedback and questions I getfrom you all.
It makes me feel more connectedto the people who are listening
(01:04:45):
to the show.
I also want to thank Valentina,my fantastic assistant, who has
been managing a lot of mysocial media for the podcast
this year, because I was justfed up with doing it and she is
amazing and I love her to pieces.
And and thanks to you, heather,for being here so much this
(01:05:08):
year and always and these are myfavorite episodes to record
when we get to hang out togetherso, uh, look forward to having
you back in the new year you betand thanks to all of you who
listen.
Uh, I'm glad that we are in your.
My doorbell just rang.
I don't know if that picked upon my mic.
Nope, I didn't hear that.
It's 2025 calling anyway, um,yeah.
(01:05:34):
So thank you to all of you and Ihope you all have had a very
happy holidays and I wish you avery creative 2025.
Yes, all right, everyone.
We will be back in a new year,in a couple of weeks, with a
brand new episode, and we willtalk to you all then.
(01:05:54):
Thank you so much for joiningus for the and she Looked Up
Creative Hour.
If you're looking for links orresources mentioned in this
episode, you can find detailedshow notes on our website at
andshelookedupcom.
While you're there, be sure tosign up for our newsletter for
more business tips, profiles ofinspiring Canadian creative
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(01:06:16):
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(00:21):
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(01:03):
And now let's get on with theshow.
Welcome to the and she Looked Uppodcast.
Each week we sit down withinspiring Canadian women who
create for a living.
(01:24):
We talk about their creativejourneys and their best business
tips, as well as the creativeand business mindset issues all
creative entrepreneurs strugglewith.
I'm your host, melissaHartfield, and, after leaving a
20-year career in corporateretail, I've been happily
self-employed for 12 years.
I'm a graphic designer, anillustrator and a
multi-six-figure-a-yearentrepreneur in the digital
(01:46):
content space.
This podcast is for the artists, the makers and the creatives
who want to find a way to make aliving doing what they love.
Hello everyone, and welcome toanother episode of the and she
Looked Up podcast.
As always, I am your host,melissa, and this is the last
(02:11):
episode of 2024.
So, of course, heather Travisis here with me today.
Hello, hey, heather.
So, yes, this is going to beour last episode for the year,
not for the season, just for2024.
So we thought we would do one ofour kind of recap, looking to
(02:34):
the future type episodes that wetend to do every year.
We thought about stopping them,but then we heard from several
of you that you really likethose ones.
So here we are.
Here we go.
So, yes, we are going to well.
I guess we'll just start offmaybe with just a little bit of
(02:55):
a recap on how our 2024s went,and then we'll get into what we
have planned for 2025 or wherewe think things are going in
2025, and maybe talk about someof the challenges that I know a
lot of us are worried about fornext year.
Yeah, so yeah, heather, how hasyour year been?
(03:18):
What has your year been?
This?
Speaker 2 (03:21):
year's been crazy.
It's been totally unexpected.
Honestly, if you had asked metwo years ago where I thought
2024 would be, uh, I woulddefinitely not have said where
it was.
Uh it.
I took a full-time job, whichmany of the podcast listeners
know, and that's been just atotal gift, and I think it's
(03:46):
more the industry that I'm indevelopmental services it's been
a really I feel like the Grinch.
Every day my heart grows twosizes bigger and I experience
that every day, which is such ablessing.
Artistically, I haven't createda lot.
You know, wrapping up myexhibition was a big deal and
(04:06):
really exalt.
Like that whole process wasabsolutely, absolutely
shattering.
It was the most beautifulshattering, like I couldn't have
asked to be shattered for anybetter reason, but I was
shattered and like just mentally, physically, everything, even
artistically.
And I think part of whatcontributed to the hesitation to
(04:31):
create a little bit more isthat I have a lot of unsold
artwork from that exhibitionstill, and I try very hard to
not let that be deflating, butit is because every time I go to
my studio to create, there is astack of canvases of unsold
artwork that I'm incrediblyproud of.
(04:52):
And so, while I am a veryfrugal person and quite often
repaint canvases once they'vesort of you know, lived their
life.
So much of the work for thatexhibition will never get
painted over it.
It lives.
It will always live, whetherit's in a thrift shop or in my
mom's garage.
(05:13):
Uh, it will live.
It needs, at least I need, togive it the opportunity to live
its life as a created piece ofartwork that I meant and very
was so deliberate about puttingit on the canvas, but it is
still deflated.
It hasn't sold.
I have been doing a lot ofexperimenting.
(05:34):
We talked about that in aprevious episode.
This year has been a hugelyexperimental trying different
things, not sharing it online,different things not sharing it
online, which is experimental initself for me, keeping things
to myself and just trying things, throwing spaghetti against the
wall, metaphorically speaking,and I think that's yeah.
(06:08):
And I think also, too, thisyear has been a lot of
deliberately not doing, and I'mokay.
I'm okay with that.
I needed to shift my focus toother things and I think I've
been flexing my creativity inother places.
I've been doing lots ofinteresting freelance work and
some pretty cool logo design forsome cool clients.
I've been really doing somecool mural projects those fill
my cup up artistically and thework I do even you know it's
(06:30):
creative writing and interestingsocial media posts and you know
I create fun posters and eventtickets and like there's fun
things that I get to docreatively that still fill my
cup.
They're just so totallydifferent from what I had been
doing for the few years beforethat.
But interestingly, when I lookat the years leading up to those
(06:53):
years, they were alsodrastically different.
I think that's the joy of beinga creative is that it's not
actually same same.
It is drastically different andcreatively it's quite cool to
see where the river just takesus, you know so that's kind of
what?
that's kind of what the year'sbeen for me um super highs,
(07:16):
super lows, a lot of holy fuck.
What the fuck is happening withmy life right now.
You know which Melissa and Italked a little bit about
offline, but life is crazy, andbut it also, I think also, the
extreme, the extremes of thisyear have reminded me and have
(07:38):
been such a beautifulopportunity.
I am always a glass half fullperson, and this has reminded me
that that is a gift to be thatperson, and I and the and the
people around me are a gift, andI have a lot of incredible
friends and family and peoplewho I know just through
Instagram, who, whether theyknew it or not, were a great
(08:01):
source of joy in my life, and sothat's, you know, I just keep
trudging along and reflecting onall the good and, yeah, seeing
where it takes me, but I'mlooking forward to 2025, I'll
tell you that much.
Yeah, and what about you,melissa?
2024?
.
Speaker 1 (08:19):
Crazy.
I feel like I'm going to sneezeright now, so I'm just.
I think it might be some sub2024 for me actually like hold,
I'm gonna sneeze just as youwere coming, I knew you were
gonna throw it over to me andI'm like I'm gonna sneeze.
Yeah, 2024 has been, um, notwhat I wanted it to be at all or
(08:44):
not what I thought it would beat all.
And I'm I'm, I'm feeling verymuch at a crossroads right now.
My mastermind group we have ourannual goal setting video call
next week to talk about ourplans for 2025.
(09:09):
And I'm feeling very just, Idon't even know the word to use
lost, maybe Not ho-hum, I mean Ijust more like I don't know the
direction I want to go in orwhere I want to put my focus.
I know I need to make moremoney.
I did not hit my revenue goalthis year.
(09:31):
I made more than last year, butunless I have like an amazing
month in December, but I alreadyknow I'm not going to hit my
and that, Thank you.
Speaker 2 (09:40):
Canada post like do you know how many small?
Speaker 1 (09:42):
businesses got screwed in the last that has
been huge.
Yes, I wound up closing both myEtsy shops.
I kept my Shopify store open.
Most of what I ship goes lettermail, which there's just no
alternative for in Canada, andso I'm using chit chats where I
(10:03):
can, or that was the plan, butanything under 100 grams I still
can't send.
But you know what, based onwhat happened to me and everyone
I've been talking to, onlinesales just dried up as soon as
that strike went into effect.
(10:24):
I haven't had a single ordersince November, like not a
single order since the strikestarted, and I had to delay my.
I do a big sale for mynewsletter subscribers instead
of a Black Friday sale everyyear.
I had to delay that.
About half my customers are inrural areas where there's just
(10:45):
no options.
And it was also, you know, Iconsider myself pro-union and I
was so angry I could go off on arant here.
I probably shouldn't.
I was so angry at thegovernment for deciding to send
(11:05):
them back to work.
You know, a week and a halfbefore Christmas, like that
doesn't help anyone If youweren't going to fix it earlier.
Just let them ride it out.
Let them figure it outthemselves, because you've
ruined it Totally.
You've ruined the season four.
Speaker 2 (11:21):
Oh, totally.
Speaker 1 (11:23):
GST holiday, like the small business minister was on
the news talking about it theother day and I was like we have
a small business minister.
Where have you been all year?
Speaker 2 (11:33):
No kidding News to many.
Speaker 1 (11:35):
And rail strikes and mail strikes, and now you're
throwing this tax holiday at usat the worst time of year for us
to put that into practice, andit's not even a great like when
you actually I can't believe howmany people thought that this
tax holiday was on everything.
Like people, I've seen so manypeople ranting like I went to
(11:58):
Walmart and they charged metaxes on everything and it's
like, yeah, it's only like fouror five categories that are
exempted, so it's just the lackof small business support in
this country this year has beenvery frustrating and you know
your husband runs a smallbusiness.
You run a small business.
Like we all know.
(12:19):
It's been a very frustratingyear and it yep and I have never
, ever.
I've been self-employed for for15 years now and I have never
seen the number of smallbusiness closure notices.
Yes, that I have seen in thelast two months so many
businesses I have known foryears and years have announced
(12:41):
that they're closing at the endof the year permanently and and
so, other than the Canadapost-strike, how has 2024
treated you?
Omit the strike.
I know Well, it's not just thestrike.
Speaker 2 (12:52):
It's just markets.
Speaker 1 (12:54):
I had to cancel all my winter markets because I got
a puppy Very unexpectedly.
Was not planning on bringing apuppy home until next fall.
But life happens, yeah, and yeah, I know he was just, uh, way
too young to leave home alone.
Um, yes, For for full marketdays, so he wasn't vaccinated
(13:18):
yet, so I couldn't leave himright anywhere else.
Yeah, so I canceled my market.
So, so that also was a hit tomy, yeah, a q4 trade-off, but
services wise, I have had mybest q4 that I've ever had.
Amazing.
That has been great.
And if I had had my q4 revenuethat I had been hoping for from
(13:39):
my illustration business, Iwould have hit my revenue goal
for the year, I'm pretty sure.
So, so, you know, a littlefrustrating, but I wouldn't
trade my puppy for anything.
Speaker 2 (13:49):
He is a whirling dervish.
Speaker 1 (13:55):
I have been too exhausted to really do anything
more than what I absolutely haveto get done.
Yeah, but we'll get throughthat.
He's, he's, he's, yeah.
It's just, we're in theteething stage right now and it
takes till.
They're about six months.
You've had dogs, you know it'slike, once they're six months,
things tend to settle down.
Other problems arise, but oh,totally yeah, they don't chew
(14:16):
all the furniture 24, seven oncethey hit about six or seven
months.
So, um, so yeah, there's, Ithink.
But you know, as I was preppingfor this meeting I have next
week, I was looking through allmy goals for the year and I just
I didn't hit anything, like Ijust and I think what I realized
(14:36):
with bringing Joey, my puppyhome in the first few weeks is I
just realized how completelyoverwhelmed with grief I had
been this year and not evenrealizing it.
And you know grief for my dog,grief for my relationship that
ended, grief for having to sella business that I loved, and we
(14:59):
lost some family members thissummer.
Like it's just, it all justcompounded and I thought I was
managing it, dealing with it.
But once Grief is tricky likethat, grief is very tricky and
it's never the same twice Likeit's different every, every.
So yeah, and then bringing thispuppy home and suddenly
(15:21):
realizing how much I had to bepresent.
Yes, I realized how much I hadnot been present all year, like
it was, like I completelydetached from the world and was
just basically doing the work Ihad to do, and then in the
evening, just sitting therewatching TV and doing nothing,
(15:43):
eating basically, and, andexcept during gardening season,
I'd go out and garden for anhour.
Speaker 2 (15:50):
Right.
Speaker 1 (15:50):
And that seemed to be the only thing that kind of
soothed my soul a little bit.
So so yeah, it's been kind of.
It hasn't been the year that Iwanted I, I, I, yeah it it is.
It's been a blip, I think.
I hope it's a blip, but I feellike I'm starting.
I feel like this puppy hasforced me to come out of the
(16:13):
mist and really start focusingon other things and that is what
I'm hoping to do.
But as we get into talking about2025 and I don't know how you
feel about this or what but oneof the things is I've been
really thinking about what Iwant to do is a lot of my goals
for 2025 are similar-ish to 2024, with a few exceptions, but
(16:39):
what I realized is that I'mdoing the same thing every year
to try and accomplish thesegoals, and I'm not really moving
the needle in the way that Iwant to, and so I think that's
where I'm a little bit stuckright now, and why I'm feeling a
bit blah is because I feel likeI feel like I can't keep doing
the same thing over and over.
(17:00):
You know the definition ofinsanity is like banging your
hands around and expectingthings change, or doing the same
thing over and over again andwondering why nothing changes.
And so I just realized a lot ofthe strategies I'm using are
strategies that worked five orsix years ago, but I think they
don't work anymore and I think Idon't know what does work.
(17:22):
I don't know what direction togo in with all the things that
I'm thinking about for 2025.
And I feel like there needs tobe a big shakeup, and I think
part of the reason I was doingthe same thing over and over
again is because it did work fora long time.
Yeah to keep doing things youknow work, even though it's not
(17:44):
necessarily pushing the envelopeforward or challenging you or
pushing you out of your comfortzone.
So that is what I.
That's sort of where I've endedthe year and now I'm trying to
like I have a list of things I'dlike to see happen in 2025, but
I don't know how to make themhappen.
(18:05):
I'm feeling very lost and alittle bit yeah, lost I guess
that's the best word for it.
Yep, yes, yeah.
Anyway, thank you for lettingme vent and have a little
therapy session there, because Ithink I needed it.
Thank you all for listening tothat.
(18:26):
Yeah exactly yeah.
So for 2025, what are youhoping to see happen?
Like you've got a lot that's influx right now.
So have you put together someideas of what you want to see in
2025?
Are you just going to wing itor somewhere in between?
Speaker 2 (18:47):
Somewhere in between.
Honestly, I waffle between.
I mean, my general modusoperandi for a lot of things is
like fuck around and find out.
At the same time, I feel likethere is an opportunity to shake
things up and you know I can'tlike one one of the deep
thoughts I do a lot of.
(19:07):
I need a whiteboard in theshower, or like I need Alexa in
the shower.
I need something so that I canbe like capture my thought,
because the number of times Iliterally yell from the shower
to Brian, I'm like get a notepadBecause I have a lot of deep
thoughts in the shower.
But one of the thoughts thatI've had recently is if I am so
(19:28):
proud of this artwork, what isit doing stacked in my studio?
Speaker 1 (19:32):
I was going to ask you that.
That was one of my questions.
Speaker 2 (19:35):
Yeah, and so how can I get more eyeballs on it?
Is that hosting more studioopen houses?
More studio open houses?
Is that the, the only hitch,and you know it's.
It's just a logistics nightmareto get everything from point a
to point b.
That's the, the hitch with myartwork.
It's large to require, like itdoesn't all fit in my car.
(19:56):
I would need to drive back andforth four or five times.
Uh, a couple of the piecesdon't even fit in my car.
Like it's just that just won'twork, and so, logistically, I
need to figure that out.
I need to, I need.
There's a few things that Ijust need to jump over.
And if it's worth the hurdle,so if it's not a weekend of
(20:20):
showing my artwork and medriving back and forth, but if
it's a month long, you knowopportunity, and that's where I
just need to.
I need to make thoseopportunities, because I think
one of the things that I havegotten complacent on is that
recently things just started tosort of come to me, and I know
(20:40):
that you make your own luck.
So obviously I was puttingmyself out there, I was talking
to the right people, I hadartwork hanging in the right
places in order for all of thethings to come to me, but right
now I'm sort of just.
I feel like I'm riding a horse.
I've been riding too long.
Speaker 1 (20:57):
That's a good way to put it.
Speaker 2 (20:58):
Yes, yeah, and I just need to change it up a little
bit, um, and so that's my big Iknow it sounds waffly, but
that's my big thing for 2025 is,I think I need to to change
things up, uh, and perhapschange focus a little bit.
I really love doing murals,like really, really, they
(21:23):
require quite a lot of pitchingeffort.
That's something I need to findtime to do, but I think if I
dedicate myself to it, that'ssomething I could be successful
with.
And so there's a couple thingsthat I just want to do more of.
And yeah, and I'm okay changingit up honestly, and I'm okay
(21:43):
changing it up honestly, I'mokay changing it up.
I am quite happy to to like,I'm an.
I just did a talk recently buthow you identify, and one of the
things was how you identifyyourself and I, even though I
have a full-time job, I stillconsider that my side hustle.
When I sit down next tosomebody at a dinner party, when
I meet somebody in line at thepost office, what do you do?
(22:03):
I'm an artist with a capital A.
I'm an artist.
That's how I identify, but thatdoesn't mean that I just paint
on canvas or that I'm just amuralist.
It could mean a lot ofdifferent things, and so I'm
quite happy to embrace thecapital A artist and just wind
wherever that takes me, but Ithink I really do.
(22:23):
To continue the analogy, Ireally think I need to get a new
horse.
Speaker 1 (22:28):
Yeah, I fully.
I think you and I are feelingvery similar actually, and I
think the way you just said it,you know just been riding the
same horse for too long.
I think that's a really goodway to kind of capture how I'm
feeling too is just uh, justneed to shake it up.
(22:49):
I don't like being a follower, Ilike being a forges their own
path, and you are very similarin that respect and uh, yeah,
right now I feel like I'm justkind of treading water, treading
, yeah, and and not um, yeah, sothat's.
And you said something elsethere too that, um, I was
(23:11):
thinking about earlier this weekspeaking to somebody else about
how, um, um, not notnecessarily that you are lucky,
but that you kind of make yourown luck and you plant a lot of
seeds and you get things in theright places and it comes to
fruition, and I think that's soimportant.
We've talked about this a lot onthe show, about planting seeds
(23:31):
and getting things out there andthat does have a snowball
effect.
And then it starts to snowballand you have all these things
coming in and you're having agreat time doing them all.
But while you're focused onthem all, you stop putting seeds
out right and so.
I think that's a challenge for alot of us is like we put the
seeds out, things starthappening, and then we get so
(23:53):
caught up in executing all theseamazing things that the seeds
we stopped scattering the seedsCorrect, and so when those
things come to an end, we'relike, ah, I got to go back out
into the garden and chuck someseeds around again, exactly.
I think that's probably wherewe're both at.
We've kind of and that's one ofthe things I really noticed
(24:13):
this year.
Like I I was getting at thebeginning of the year I got so
much word of mouth um, uh mouthbusiness for the services side
of what I do, and so I was justmadly trying to bring all these
people on and not screw thingsup too badly, which I kind of
did, but that forced me to getsystems in place.
Fortunately, I don't thinkanybody really noticed beyond me
(24:36):
, but I was completelyoverwhelmed, and so, you know,
got systems in place, butbecause I was just trying to,
and so, you know, got systems inplace, but in because I was
just trying to get everythinggoing and it all happened so
quickly I stopped sending out mynewsletter.
I stopped doing a lot of thethings that helped me generate a
lot of those leads.
And so now here I am inDecember and I realized neither
(24:57):
of my newsletter lists havegrown this year like at all,
cause I have just stoppedputting yeah, I've just, I've
just stopped.
And so that's one of the bigthings for me for 2025 is I just
need to be more visible again.
I need to, and social media isjust not the way to do it Like
anymore for me.
I'm, you know I'm not leavingsocial media or anything like
(25:19):
that, but it is not the eyeballgenerator that it used to be.
Speaker 2 (25:24):
Oh God, no, and honestly, the amount of times
that like people are like, wow,that looks cool, and they ask a
question, that I'm like, wow, Ihave posted about this 57
million fucking times and thisyou're acting like this is the
first time you've seen it?
It probably is, and that'sexactly it, and that happens
more often than not, includingpeople who I, and this still
(25:46):
bamboozled me, honestly, becauseI guess, when you don't have a
business account, when you don'tmake your account on Instagram
professional, you do not haveaccess to insights.
But Melissa and I and everysmall business owner or even any
person who calls themselves adigital creator, has access, and
it blows my mind.
They're like you can see that Isaw your stories.
I'm like, yes, I have told youthis for a decade.
(26:08):
I can see who has seen mystories, and it blows my mind
when I know for a fact you haveseen quote everything and yet
you're asking this question likeyou've just seen it for the
first time.
Speaker 1 (26:19):
But that says a lot about how we interact with
social media.
Like we're just mindlesslyscrolling it or watching it, but
we're not processing it, no,and so I think you know, yeah,
people are seeing your stuff,but they're not seeing your
stuff.
Speaker 2 (26:35):
And that's exactly it , so like it needs to be.
I mean, I use LinkedIn a lotmore deliberately.
I've been failing at that alittle bit, but that's, I think,
for me.
I set a goal for using LinkedInmore strategically a couple of
years ago and I again.
It was a planting, a seed.
I did it, it yielded, and then Iforgot to go back and do it all
(26:56):
again, and so a lot of my goalsare actually like and so it's
funny, we say we're trying, butsome of them I'm like no, I need
to go back and do that againbecause that was actually worth
it.
And then, yeah, there's acouple of things, but I think I
just need to shake things up.
I think that's the big thingfor me for 2025 is really to
shake things up and honestly,it's funny I started that
(27:23):
sentence that way but to be alittle bit more honest with
myself.
I think a lot of this 2024 year, I was conning myself into
thinking I was doing more than Iwas.
Speaker 1 (27:39):
Yeah and uh, yeah and I mean, I know it's okay, I'm
fine, okay but it's fine to notdo as much and I think you had
an incredibly intense couple ofyears leading up to your
exhibition and you, you knowit's that whole wave energy.
You needed to ride the wave inand just sit on the beach for a
little bit, totally.
And I think it's the same withgrief.
(28:00):
You do all this, you know.
Grief forces you to sit for or,um, you know, just process
things differently or notprocess them, or whatever the
case may be, and I think yeah um, yeah, and I think you're right
.
I was the whole conningyourself like I thought I was
busy, I thought I was doingstuff, and it wasn't until
(28:20):
something came along that shookthings up.
I was like I wasn't doing.
I think you're right.
I was the whole conningyourself Like I thought I was
busy, I thought I was doingstuff, and it wasn't until
something came along that shookthings up, I was like I wasn't
doing anything Correct, exactly.
Speaker 2 (28:28):
And it's funny because, you know, when I look
and think I'm like, yeah, I'vecreated stuff, and I'm like, wow
, I made and sold one painting.
You know yay me, but still, uh,you know yay me, but still like
it was more than zero.
And that's exactly it.
It's not zero, uh, and so Ihave to remind myself of that,
(28:48):
uh.
At the same time, you know, I,I think I felt like I was doing
more and even, yeah, I feel Ithink I felt like I was doing
more, and until I actually satback and started looking at it
and took like a real hard look,yeah, I was really glass half
fulling it, yeah, what.
Speaker 1 (29:08):
What are you thinking you might like to do in 2025?
Is there anything you want thatyou can share with us, or would
like to share with us, or?
Speaker 2 (29:15):
I think for sure the murals like really stepping up
the mural game is a big one.
Um, I have been doing some logodesign projects and I would
love to.
There's a lot of reallyinteresting things.
I think it's maybe being backin that sort of business world
and it's not so much logo design, interestingly, because I find
that, depending on the client,tricky.
Speaker 1 (29:36):
I don't do branding anymore and I'm a graphic
designer.
Yeah, exactly, I don't dobranding anymore.
Speaker 2 (29:40):
And I'm a graphic designer.
Yeah, exactly, I don't dobranding, but you know, I see so
much opportunity for creativepractice in business, and so I
have been approached for somereally interesting things to do
with Shart for 2025.
And that has tickled my brain,uh, in what is also an
(30:02):
opportunity to sort of expandthe to, to blow my sharts out of
the water.
Uh, because that, the joy thatshart brings the uh, we'll call
it art therapy nature of it issomething that has really
tickled my brain and why it hasalways kept kept ongoing for me,
(30:24):
and even recently, the lastchart, which was Saturday
December 7th.
When we did it, I had multiplepeople and I did it.
So the exercise was a breathingexercise, alternating between
our dominant hand and ournon-dominant hand, quite
literally drawing a Christmastree, but with every breath in
and every breath out, you dosort of a line of the Christmas
(30:47):
tree and you can sort of.
If you're looking on YouTuberight now, you can see the, the
video, the way my hands aremoving.
But it's a very elementaryChristmas tree, nothing deep or
meaningful about it, no artisticskills or talent required, and
it was just a reminder.
And it was a reminder that Ineeded to give myself, which was
to just take deep breaths andbe present in the moment and
enjoy the process.
(31:08):
And I had multiple people sendme text messages and DMs after
saying I was having a shitmorning and I logged on
Instagram and there you were andI did this and like 20 minutes
later, I feel right with theworld.
Thank you so much, and that Idon't care that it was only 20
(31:29):
odd people who were on thatsession and that three of them
took the time to reach out.
That was the greatest gift thatI could have received was
hearing that feedback and that Iwant those gold stars.
That's what I want for 2025.
It's not me, and so it's notabout me and the gold stars,
what it is and I joke, but thegift of giving that and being
(31:52):
that person through art andthrough just being real has
something that has reallytickled me this year and has
sustained me.
Being able to do chart hassustained me, and that
connection in the community andI would like, and so sorry, to
tie that back together.
Doing branding exercises andbrand strategy and understanding
(32:14):
that teams of people and Iunderstand this from where I
work, teams of people arestressed, underpaid, overworked.
They need to feel connectionwith community, they need
reminders that they're specialand important and meaningful and
that their contributions arevalued, and taking time to do
something creative, whether theresult is awesome or shitty.
(32:35):
Hence shart is a greatopportunity to bring that in,
and so I would like to do more.
We'll call it corporate art, soboth corporate branding, so
murals in offices to liven upteams and bring happiness and
joy and color to spaces andplaces where people spend nine
(32:56):
to five, but also throughworkshops and seminars.
That's something that I wouldlike to do more of and that was
only tickled, interestingly,because somebody who was a
member of the Shark communityreached out to me with a really
interesting proposal and I won'ttalk about it because I haven't
signed anything yet.
It's still in discussions, butthere could be like a whole
(33:18):
exciting opportunity for Sharkthat just brings it to more
people, and I would love.
I just, I think that's a yeah,I just want to Sharch all over
the world.
Speaker 1 (33:29):
That's awesome.
I think you'd be so good atthat too.
I think, that totally fits justall your, your whole skill set
that you have and the type ofperson you are.
So that's, that's really coolyeah.
Speaker 2 (33:39):
Yeah, so that's.
It's really cool.
Yeah, yeah, so that's it.
But that and so, so for me,that's shaking things up.
That's for 2025, shaking thingsout, finding a new horse,
revisiting some perhaps oldgoals that worked well, and then
ditching things that didn't,and then really and really
planting seeds.
I think that's a big one, touse that language.
That's a big one for me for2025 is to I still want to ride
(34:04):
through the world as arhinestone cowboy who declares
herself an artist, and I can'tride that horse if I don't at
least try some new things thisyear.
Speaker 1 (34:17):
Yeah, I think that's part of being a creative is you
have to be willing to try newthings.
That's the, that's whatcreating is.
Speaker 2 (34:27):
You're creating correct, exactly and like once I
don't.
I am not an assembly line, andso that's.
I think the big thing is that Istarted becoming a little
assembly line-ish.
Not that I created the samething over and over again, but I
felt a little stagnant andthat's yeah, rode the same horse
too long.
That was the.
So this year we're we'regetting a new horse and we're
(34:49):
bedazzling the saddle.
Speaker 1 (34:52):
Yes, I think so.
Speaker 2 (34:54):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (34:54):
Mm-hmm, yeah for 2025,.
I think one of the decisions Imade in 2024 was to become
rightly or wrongly was to justavoid anything negative on my
Instagram.
I just stopped talking aboutpolitics.
(35:17):
The news all that stuff, whichis something I've always been
fairly vocal about, and I justdecided I really just wanted my
Instagram to become a place thatwould be joyful to people.
It was a very consciousdecision.
It doesn't mean I'm not engagedin the world, it's just I've
just chosen not to use that asmy venue to be engaged with the
(35:41):
world.
Yeah, yeah, and so that issomething I really want to focus
on for 2025 is just frighteningpeople's day.
Like honestly, when I go back tohow everything started with my
illustration business, it waswith this little red-haired
(36:02):
stick character, miss doodle,who people just fell in love
with.
And the reason they fell inlove with was not because she
was great art, she's not, she'sa, she's a stick figure, as I as
I say all the time.
But she's perfect.
She is perfect.
And it's so funny how, um, overthe of, I don't know I've been
(36:22):
drawing her.
It's probably about 10 yearsnow that I've been drawing her,
at least, yep and it is so funnyhow emotionally attached I have
become to this little figure.
She is a person to me, totallyyes, with a full personality and
a soul and everything.
Totally yes.
Speaker 2 (36:41):
Just like Casey and Finnegan.
Yes.
Speaker 1 (36:44):
And I don't.
I haven't been drawing her asmuch because I've just been
focusing on other types ofartwork and stuff and, let's be
honest, I've been trying tocreate things that are a little
more commercial.
Because I got to sell to makemoney Yep, totally, I hear you.
Because I got to sell to makemoney yeah totally.
I hear you, yeah, but the reasonI went down the road of
(37:09):
starting an illustrationbusiness was because of Miss
Doodle and how she made peoplefeel.
Everybody used to message meand say I love seeing her.
She brightens my day Totally.
I feel, like the state that theworld is in right now, that we
need those little snippets.
(37:30):
You know, you see a lot ofstuff on social media.
I don't know how people cantalk about these things that
don't matter when there's allthis stuff going on in the world
.
That is really, really heavy.
And you know I'm trying tofigure out how to word this
without sounding obnoxious.
Speaker 2 (37:56):
I understand where you're going.
Yes, it's.
Speaker 1 (38:00):
If you look back in not far back in history, but
fairly recent history, so likelet's take World War II as an
example, or the Great Depressionthe Great Depression saw this
outpouring of the movie industry.
The movie industry took offduring the Great Depression.
It was like one of the goldenages of Hollywood.
(38:22):
It was like one of the goldenages of Hollywood and the reason
was it was an escape mechanismfor people who were miserable.
It was a dime to go see a movieand people could somehow manage
to find that dime.
And a dime sounds like penniesto us today, but you know, a
dime was a lot of money backthen.
You could go get a piece of piein a diner for 40 cents with a
(38:49):
coffee, right, so, but that is.
It was out of despair that thisindustry became huge.
And then you move on to WorldWar II and again the movie
industry had another boombecause it was a way for people
to just for a moment, for anhour and a half, escape the
(39:10):
misery that was going on in theworld, and it was an escape
mechanism.
Then we had the pandemic.
And where did everyone flock?
To Netflix, youtube, everywherethese people where there was
just stuff to take your mind offit, and I think that, while it
is very important for us to beaware of what's going on out in
(39:31):
the world, because we'recitizens of this planet and you
know I do feel very stronglythat we need to be aware and we
need to fight the things that wethink are wrong, and we need to
do all that.
But at the same time, we need totake breaks.
Speaker 2 (39:48):
We need to have moments of joy.
Speaker 1 (39:50):
We need to have moments of things that we can
celebrate or that pick us up,because fighting the fight is
exhausting, yes, mentally,physically, and it's just.
It's a lot.
And I also find it reallyinteresting the way boomers get
kind of bashed around and if youlook back in history to the
(40:12):
people who were raising theboomers, these were the people
who went through the depressionand the world war.
These are veterans who came homewith no mental health support,
who had seen atrocious thingsand they, just they, did the
best they could, right With whatthey were dealing with, and
this is why, when you see thingsthat are going on in other
(40:33):
war-torn areas across the globe,we're just creating more
generations of people who aregoing to be raising kids who
have experienced tremendoustrauma and now we're trying to
raise children right.
Yes, that is going to impactthose children.
It's yeah.
There's just no way around it.
Um, yeah, so it's it.
(40:53):
I I do think for us ascreatives, where I'm going with
this is for us as creatives,there is absolutely a place for
us to bring joy and to givepeople a moment to have that
just little boost that theymight need.
And I think there's also everbeen for us to have a place in
(41:26):
the world and to remind peoplethat there is beauty out there
and it's worth fighting for.
It's worth you know, like we cando both, and so that is one of
the things I really do want tofocus on for the coming year is
just because I do think thecoming year is going to be very
challenging globally for so manyreasons, and I think there is
(41:50):
going to be a need for people tojust have those little moments
that pick them up and, yeah,just remind them that there's
good things out there, and thosegood things are worth fighting
for so totally, and I think, too, I'm totally with you and
that's and that that's why Shart, for me, is a big cause.
Speaker 2 (42:07):
It's the driver is, it's that moment of respite, but
also a reminder of theconnection of community.
Particularly and and this iswhat I love about Shart is that
we have people quite literallytune in from all over the globe.
I have people who tune inregularly from Germany and
Australia and then all overCanada and like that is crazy to
(42:29):
me and they've never met eachother, but they follow each
other on Instagram and love eachother through art and that's a
beautiful thing.
And so bringing people togetherfor just a moment of joy
through a creative venue,whether it's a simple doodle or
a breathing exercise, I think, Ithink that that's like.
(42:50):
Those are momentous, those arenot little, those are not little
things.
Speaker 1 (42:54):
It's giving people strength to Totally, to keep
going with whatever it is thatthey are challenged with at this
particular moment in time.
And I just I don't let anybodymake you feel like now is not
the time to make art, or now isnot the time to celebrate these
little things.
It is always the time to.
Speaker 2 (43:16):
And the best music, like the best music and the best
art comes out of the toughest,like that's pressure makes
diamonds.
That's what happens, and so Ithink this is the time, and if
you're stressed about somethingand that's, you know, even my
exhibition like those areopportunities to use your
(43:39):
creativity as therapy foryourself as a creative.
So, like express yourself andyou'll find community around,
whatever it is that you'retrying, like, yeah, yeah, I,
yeah, I'm totally with you I'mjust I'm gonna hold it up.
Speaker 1 (43:53):
I don't.
You won't be able to see it ifyou're just listening, but if
you're on youtube, you'll beable to see her.
Um, this has been.
This was made by a ukrainianartist that I have followed for
years.
She's like Miss Doodle she is,but she's Miss Sunshine, yes,
isn't she?
Freaking, adorable, adorable.
Anyway, this particular artistwe've been following each other
(44:21):
on Instagram for years,pre-conflict.
She lost her husband in the warin Ukraine.
He was killed, and she has ayoung daughter and a dog and
she's still creating amazing art.
She's figuring it out, you know, it's so.
(44:42):
You see these artists who arebeing bombed and losing family
members and things, and they arestill finding a way to create
um, and I think yeah, becauseit's part of us, it's part of
who we are, but at the same.
(45:02):
I think it is therapy for us todo that when we've suffered
great loss, and yeah, anyway.
So that's my little sunshinegirl and I have her on my desk,
so she's actually meant to be apendant.
This woman makes big, chunkyjewelry and the necklace feeds
(45:25):
through these, but I just haveher at my desk and I just like
to look at her.
Every day, when it's sunny,which it isn't very often right
now, I have her on thewindowsill, so the light goes
through.
Speaker 2 (45:35):
Yeah, it comes through.
Exactly.
I was thinking it's like alittle piece of stained glass.
That's awesome, yeah.
Speaker 1 (45:39):
So that's definitely something that is really my
focus for this year and thiscoming year.
And yeah, just like I said,getting in front of more people
and I haven't figured that oneout yet, because I keep
defaulting to social media andit's just not working.
So I have to Yep.
Speaker 2 (45:59):
I'm with you.
Speaker 1 (46:00):
What does that look like?
Speaker 2 (46:01):
Yeah, and I don't know just yet.
Speaker 1 (46:04):
I know, Currently I don't know just yet.
Speaker 2 (46:05):
I know Currently I've decided on a variety.
I've made a list of ridiculousoptions.
So one is literally makingmyself a sandwich board and just
walking around.
I'm like, all right, what arethe stupid things?
And I don't mean to say stupid,because nothing's stupid, goofy
.
Speaker 1 (46:20):
Maybe goofy or silly Goofy, exactly.
Speaker 2 (46:24):
And so it's like, nope, not doing that one, not
doing that one.
But then it's like, well, what?
Why does my mind go to thosegoofy things?
And what is it that is actuallylike viable about it?
I think that's, and so I'mtrying to start from a place of
fun, because otherwise I find ita little stressful.
Speaker 1 (46:38):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, definitely, I think I actually,
I think about your cousinactually alexandra, we had her
on the show.
Yes, yes andrew newbold and uh,how she just goes to clubs and
bars and stuff and draw us andpeople come up to her and ask
her questions and the bands Iknow sometimes ask her, you know
(46:59):
, and I'm just like she's justgoing where she loves to go and
she's totally well, she's thereand I'm like that's really cool.
Speaker 2 (47:06):
It's a great way to honestly, I was at a conference
that I spoke at a couple weeksago.
One of the girls in theaudience and it was a conference
for creative so it was acreative symposium, was the name
of it anyway and one of thegirls in the audience came up to
me and said hey, do you want tosee?
Here's my doodle of yourpresentation.
And literally she had atwo-page spread and she'd done a
(47:28):
little doodle of me and she hadlittle quotables like different
things, and it was like allkind of it was kind of like one
of those whiteboard designs.
Anyway, it was so fantastic andI was like, oh my God, I took,
of course, I took a picture ofit, I shared it on my social
media, like it was absolutely,and it was such a like what a
creative way to capture theconversation.
(47:51):
Like it was an hour and a halflong keynote that I delivered,
so like what a cool way for herto capture all the information.
But then what a neatinteraction opportunity to just
come up, just as you said interms of what Alex does, sitting
in bars, and just like drawingthings and having people like
you.
Just I think it's a simple wayto just put yourself out there
and how can you?
Yeah, I think that's abrilliant example, because
(48:14):
that's such a fun way to shakethings up.
Speaker 1 (48:16):
I've done it at my last two markets.
I did a pop-up in September andI did a market in the spring,
and part of the reason I diddraw at those markets wasn't so
much to strike up conversations,as it was because people didn't
think the artwork on the thingsI sold was mine, and this is a
very common thing that I'mhearing from so many creatives
who have been very active atmarkets this year is just the
(48:37):
frustration level at peoplethinking their work is not
theirs or that they purchasedthe artwork.
So this was my solution I'm justgoing to sit there and draw and
then they can see I'm an artist, and the number of people who
have stopped, who might've goneright past my booth but have
stopped to say, oh, do youactually draw this?
(48:59):
Or or how do you do that?
Because I usually do it on myiPad, cause I'm in a, I'm at a
market and it's just easier.
I have my iPad anyway.
Yeah, totally yeah.
Um, and so they have so manyquestions how do you get the
artwork off your iPad, like, howdo you turn it into a card,
like you know, super curious,and they want to see the whole
process, and that has been areally interesting way to spark
(49:23):
conversations.
Speaker 2 (49:25):
Totally.
Speaker 1 (49:27):
Yeah, so I do think there's a place for that.
People are very curious,particularly if they don't view
themselves as creative as to howother people create, Especially
when they can see it.
Yes, when they just see thefinished item on Instagram, they
don't think twice about how itwas created.
But when they actually see aperson in the process, they're
(49:48):
like oh, that's so cool.
Speaker 2 (49:50):
Yeah, honestly, that's my favorite part of doing
a mural project is havingpeople interrupt me, and they're
always.
You can see the hesitationbecause they're quite literally
interrupting me.
They can tell you're working,but at the same time, yeah, oh
exactly At the same time, likeit makes me so happy to turn
around and stand there with mypaintbrush drying and explain
the whole process because peopleare fascinated by it, and then
(50:14):
it's a memorable opportunity tospeak about your artwork.
It's also a great way to showyour passion for it and I think
that's what particularly just togo back to what we were saying
earlier on the sort of sharingjoy as a creative, when people
see what you do and see that youactually love what you do, I
think that that is a huge like.
The appreciation they have, Ithink, is even deeper Because
(50:35):
you're not just doing it for thedollar, you're doing it because
there's a deep and like whenyou talk about your process and
you talk about how you do things, it could be same same for a
lot of people.
It could also be incrediblyunique to you.
Regardless a person, if they'veasked the question, they want
to hear the answer and I thinkthat's such a great opportunity
(50:56):
for connection.
Speaker 1 (50:57):
It's a great way for people to understand that this
is a craft yeah, that this is,that it takes skill, that it
takes thought, that there isyeah, because people don't
necessarily appreciate that.
But when they actually see theprocess and they talk to you and
they understand what goes intoit and they start to realize
(51:17):
it's not just drawing somethingon a piece of paper and suddenly
magically it turns intosomething else you know, or they
start to understand thatthere's a lot more to it and
it's, it's really cool to seethe yes, the understanding and
(51:37):
come into their eyes as they arelike totally, and there's
actually a lot of work that goesinto this And's it's, it's cool
.
So yeah yeah, I think that's agreat one.
The other thing I started to doand I've been having so much
fun with it a friend actuallyasked me if I would consider
doing a calendar for 2025 and Ihad cool thought about it, but I
(51:59):
have always done.
You can kind of see them in thebackground.
It's blurred, but they're upthere.
I did do a couple of theselittle doodles eons ago for
certain months of the year, andit was just little things for
the month, and then I startedthinking about doing one for
(52:20):
Advent, just because it's 24days, right, yeah and so I did.
I'm gonna see if I can here.
So this is my sketchbook.
This is a sketchbook that Ihave been very precious about.
There is only one other, andthis is from years ago.
Wow, and then the rest of thebook is empty.
(52:41):
I didn't want to mess thesketchbook up.
It's a very nice, ratherexpensive sketchbook and I just
wanted everything in it to beperfect.
Speaker 2 (52:50):
It's such a dumb thing.
Speaker 1 (52:51):
And I know there are so many other illustrators and
artists out there going yes, yes, I do the same thing.
I feel very seen right nowactually.
We have these precioussketchbooks where we just, oh, I
know, right now, actually, wehave these precious sketchbooks
where we just uh, I know.
So anyway, I was like I have tostart using this because I
can't go out and buy another.
You know, I can't keep buyingsketchbooks that I never fill
(53:12):
correct.
So I thought you know what?
What if I just did a littleteeny tiny doodle every day for
advent and I wrote out a list?
here's my list, it's just onhere you can't see it and I came
up with a something for everyday, and so that's what I do,
and now you can, now that youcan actually see the sketchbook,
(53:32):
you can see like these are tiny, yep, tiny.
I'm using a zoom filter so it'shard to, I know, I see really,
really tiny, because the idea isto get all 24 on one page and I
was thinking as I did it, as Istarted working on it, that that
could be a calendar page, but Idon't.
I don't know if it will be ornot, but it has been so fun to
(53:56):
do, they are the perfect size,and I decided to do them with
watercolor.
Speaker 2 (54:01):
I don't know why, because I don't know anything
about watercolor and but that'sit make probably makes it even
more fun because it's so out ofyour comfort zone.
Speaker 1 (54:07):
Yeah I'm very impatient.
You can't be impatient withwatercolor like I'm just I'm not
good at that's.
Speaker 2 (54:12):
I've been experimenting with watercolor
and literally it's like oh mygod, like I'm there's, I'm in
acrylics and I fucking blow drythings like that's how quickly
I'm like dry faster right andit's like if you rush it you
ruin it.
Speaker 1 (54:25):
It's just the first few were just a mess, because I
just no kidding so impatient toadd the next color in and then
just yes, and then I just createpuddles.
Speaker 2 (54:35):
That's what I create pages with puddles on them.
Speaker 1 (54:37):
That's what my watercolors look like so, um, I
am getting more patient and um,but it has been, and I also
changed it from doing it in theevening to it being the first
thing that I do in the morning.
Oh, fun, as kind of like just anice little way to create to
start and they literally take me10 minutes.
Speaker 2 (54:55):
Yeah, yeah, like.
Speaker 1 (54:56):
I got to wait for the paint to dry.
That's why it takes 10 minutes.
It was just the doodle sketch.
It would take like a minute.
Yeah, yeah, yeah Right, that'sperfect though, so that's been
really fun, yeah, and I think Ijust want to do more things like
that.
Just remind myself, and becausethis is a sketchbook project,
(55:17):
it was never meant to beanything more than a page in my
sketchbook for me, anything morethan more a page in my
sketchbook for me, and I think Ineed to do more of that type of
work where it is not about,like you said, you've been doing
stuff this year that youhaven't been sharing yeah and I
think I just need to do more ofthat where, yeah, I'll share it.
If it, if yeah, if it lookstotally, but it's yep, it's.
(55:40):
I shouldn't.
Speaker 2 (55:41):
And you're not making it for anybody.
No, I am making it for me.
Speaker 1 (55:45):
And if I don't share it, it's not a big deal.
Yeah, that's just somethingthat I am doing for myself and I
started thinking about it andI'm like you know I could
probably do that for 365 days.
Speaker 2 (55:58):
I'm not committing to it because I don't want to put
pressure on myself Like it's nota 365 day project.
Speaker 1 (56:03):
No it's just going to be like.
If I can open my sketchbook for10 minutes every morning most
days, I think that that is agood way for me to start the day
, so I definitely want to dothat.
Speaker 2 (56:17):
Yeah Cool.
Speaker 1 (56:18):
So other things that have kind of been weird.
Like you know, I want to domore SEO work this year, but I
don't know what SEO work lookslike in 2025.
Like things have changed sodramatically in the last two
years, so again I could go backand do all those things that I
used to do that I knew workedand that I've kind of neglected.
Speaker 2 (56:40):
But I don't think those work anymore.
I don't think they work anymore.
No kind of neglected.
Speaker 1 (56:42):
I don't think those work anymore and you know
figuring out where the place forAI in my business is, and
because I do think there is aplace for it.
I think there's a place for itfor all of us.
Speaker 2 (56:54):
I've been using it quite interestingly for a lot of
projects, yeah there's lots ofways you can use it.
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (57:00):
I don't think there's a place for it in my creative
process like the actual processof creating for me at this time.
That is not what I want.
It's interesting.
I do a lot of writing for aliving.
I probably make most of myrevenue from writing and I worry
(57:21):
every day that I'm going tolose that to AI.
But this has been my busiestyear and I worry every day that
I'm going to lose that to AI.
Oh yeah, but this has been mybusiest year and frankly, I've
had so many people come to mebecause I don't write with AI
and because they find it verygeneric sounding and they want
somebody who has a voice.
Yeah, and so I think there willbe a place for me, whether it's
writing everything from scratchalways, maybe not, but there
(57:42):
will be a place for me to refinework, writing everything from
scratch always maybe not, butthere will be a place for me to
refine work that's created forsure through so yeah, I think
there's a.
I think it's going to be aninteresting year, technology
wise, for a lot of us.
Um yeah, so um yeah.
I think the only other bigquestion mark I have for next
(58:04):
year is just the state ofbusiness in this country oh,
small business in this country,and I know a lot of people are
very nervous about the tariffsituation which will impact all
of us if you sell on.
Speaker 2 (58:17):
Etsy and things like that, mm-hmm.
Speaker 1 (58:20):
If you sell in your own store, because it's not us
that pays the tariff, it's yourcustomer that pays the tariff,
so it's not us that needs toworry about implementing it.
It's your customer has to worryabout paying it.
So, yep, and I am going to bedoing a Patreon episode for
December on that, to talk aboutthat.
So for those of you who followus on Patreon or on our
(58:40):
Buzzsprout premium subscribernetwork, you will get that
episode, this before the end ofthe year.
Well, actually, it's probablyalready out if you're listening
to this, because this episode isgoing to air on December 30th.
It is not December 30th.
We're recording it.
So if you would like to hearthat, you can sign up for our
Patreon over.
It's just Patreon forward slashand she looked up and yes, I
(59:06):
just want to say first of all,before we wrap up, do you have
anything else you want to shareor are you good?
No, I mean, I think that Iwould like to maybe get on a
soapbox for a millisecond andsay to everybody else who's
listening, I've done it twicetoday so why not?
Speaker 2 (59:22):
Yeah, I think the opportunity.
I think one of the things thatMelissa and I yeah, I think the
opportunity.
I think one of the things thatMelissa and I well, we
consistently agree on a lot ofdifferent things, but I think
one of the things particularlyas we head into 2025, is to
never forget that you need tomake art that makes you happy,
and that I think sharing thatjoy is something we can all step
up our game for in 2025,because I think that that's what
(59:46):
the world needs, and so if wecould all take that as a
personal challenge, I, I think,I think that would be a good
thing yeah, I 100% agree.
Speaker 1 (59:58):
um, I think threads is a very interesting social
media platform I really liked itat first.
I've kind of avoided it nowbecause I find it a very
negative place.
Speaker 2 (01:00:10):
Yes.
Speaker 1 (01:00:10):
Particularly for creatives.
Yes, it feels like it's aventing platform for creatives.
Speaker 2 (01:00:14):
No, kidding yeah.
Speaker 1 (01:00:16):
I don't need that energy.
Speaker 2 (01:00:18):
No, right now.
No, yeah, no, thank you.
Speaker 1 (01:00:23):
So, yeah, I am definitely looking.
I want to see what people arecreating.
I want to see your work.
I want to see what you put outthere.
Send it to me if you need toLike, if you feel like it's not
getting, send it to me.
Send me a DM and say this iswhat I've been working on.
I thought you might like to seeit because I would like to see
it.
Speaker 2 (01:00:43):
Yeah, my favorite DMs are look at my shirt.
Those are my favorite DMs.
Speaker 1 (01:00:54):
Absolutely, absolutely.
One of my absolute favoriteones is a follower who I can't
remember how it came about.
We know each other in real lifeas well and she had mentioned
that her daughter was reallyinto learning to draw and stuff
and I sent her daughter a bunchof my stickers like seconds that
I had that hadn't cut quiteperfectly, and I sent her a
bunch.
This was quite a while ago,Anyway, she sent me for a while.
(01:01:15):
She was sending me some of her.
Every time her daughter createdsomething she would send me a
picture of it and I loved it andI haven't seen anything in
quite a while I hope she's stilldrawing and stuff, but it was
one of my favorite things to get.
It was like um, so yeah, if you,if you, yeah, send me your
artwork Totally.
Oh I love it for sure.
Yes, right, yeah, um, yeah.
(01:01:39):
So, uh, yes, bring more joy in2025, because I think we're
going to be dealing with a lotof hard things in 2025.
So if you can bring more joy tothe table for yourself or for
others, or just share it, Ithink there's a place for you
and there's other places toshare.
Besides, I created a bunch ofbookmarks this year which I kind
(01:02:03):
of love, and I've decided I'mjust going to stick them into
library books when I return thebooks to the library.
That's amazing, yeah.
Speaker 2 (01:02:10):
Do it.
Speaker 1 (01:02:10):
I did start to wonder if, like they shake the books
out, you know when they, beforethey put them back on the shelf.
Speaker 2 (01:02:15):
I don't think they do .
Speaker 1 (01:02:16):
I don't know, I don't , I don't know if they do, but
one thing I have noticed is onhardbacks you know they cover
them with that plastic wrap atthe library and I have taken out
books very often that have theperson's library receipt with
the due date yes, shoved in theside I love finding those,
because I am a mystery readerand usually Me too I find new
(01:02:38):
mystery authors.
It's like that person reallythey liked this book and they
read these other ones.
I'm gonna try these other onesanyway.
So I thought about shoving thebookmarks in that slot, because
I don't think I fall out ofthere.
So anyway, I'm just gonna dothat, just you know totally I
like the bookmarks, so these arereaders they obviously.
Speaker 2 (01:02:57):
Yes, use bookmarks yeah, yeah, yeah, you could even
do it.
You could even do it in, likeyour favorite books, like go
into a bookstore and put theminto books that people are going
to actually buy and take homeyou could.
Speaker 1 (01:03:10):
I think they're far less likely to get shaken.
I don't know if you'd get introuble or not.
I mean, I guess, if somebodyspotted you.
Speaker 2 (01:03:16):
I feel like they're far less likely to get shaken in
a bookstore.
Speaker 1 (01:03:19):
Exactly.
They don't pick them up whenyou go to the checkout and shake
them out, right?
No, exactly A librarian cares.
Speaker 2 (01:03:25):
A Chapters employee could give two shits.
Speaker 1 (01:03:30):
No, I just went and I apologize profusely if you're a
Chapters employee, but this isthe generalization.
Speaker 2 (01:03:35):
I'm going to put one on a different level when it
comes for love of books.
Speaker 1 (01:03:39):
I went to Chapters last week and bought a couple
books and nobody shook them out.
No Same with the magazine.
Nobody shook that out.
So, yeah, you probably could,but I feel like the library is
like my kindred spirit.
People.
Speaker 2 (01:03:54):
Oh, totally yeah, and that's a good place to love
bomb things.
They're there reading forthemselves, right?
As opposed to buying gifts forthem.
Speaker 1 (01:04:00):
Yes, anyway, yeah.
So maybe that's just a.
I'm doing it to spread joy, but, who knows, it could plant a
seed for my business as well atthe same.
Yeah, the same time.
Yeah, so I think we'll probablywrap up here.
Uh, before we wrap up, I do justwant to thank all our patrons
(01:04:22):
on both platforms who havesupported the show this year.
It is why the show keeps going.
So, for all of you listening,those people are the reason that
we're still here.
So thank you so much to all ofyou and for the wonderful
feedback and questions I getfrom you all.
It makes me feel more connectedto the people who are listening
(01:04:45):
to the show.
I also want to thank Valentina,my fantastic assistant, who has
been managing a lot of mysocial media for the podcast
this year, because I was justfed up with doing it and she is
amazing and I love her to pieces.
And and thanks to you, heather,for being here so much this
(01:05:08):
year and always and these are myfavorite episodes to record
when we get to hang out togetherso, uh, look forward to having
you back in the new year you betand thanks to all of you who
listen.
Uh, I'm glad that we are in your.
My doorbell just rang.
I don't know if that picked upon my mic.
Nope, I didn't hear that.
It's 2025 calling anyway, um,yeah.
(01:05:34):
So thank you to all of you and Ihope you all have had a very
happy holidays and I wish you avery creative 2025.
Yes, all right, everyone.
We will be back in a new year,in a couple of weeks, with a
brand new episode, and we willtalk to you all then.
(01:05:54):
Thank you so much for joiningus for the and she Looked Up
Creative Hour.
If you're looking for links orresources mentioned in this
episode, you can find detailedshow notes on our website at
andshelookedupcom.
While you're there, be sure tosign up for our newsletter for
more business tips, profiles ofinspiring Canadian creative
women and so much more.
(01:06:16):
If you enjoyed this episode,please be sure to subscribe to
the show via your podcast app ofchoice so you never miss an
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Thanks for listening and we'llsee you next week.
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