September 1, 2021 • 28 mins
Anuradha Kowtha is a catalyst, educator and consultant, who works with individuals, small businesses and organisations to liberate their essence so they can meet these uncertain times with resilience and courage.
Anuradha’s journey working across both public and private sectors has led Anuradha to see systemic issues like hierarchy and exploitation and find ways to address systemic issues at their root cause.
The thread that runs through Anuradha’s work is illuminating and liberating individuals and small teams from the indoctrination and cookie-cutter thinking that comes from capitalism and colonialism, so they can provide bold and innovative solutions rooted in justice to their clients.
Join us as we discuss how Anuradha is undoing the indoctrination from colonial and capitalist frameworks so we can create solutions rooted in justice and liberation.
In this episode, we talk about:
- How Anuradha’s activism began (01:35)
- Delving into the root causes (03:52)
- Striving for multiple big visions (05:10)
- What it means to sowing post capitalist seeds (08:06)
- The impact this might have on your business (13:32)
- An alternative pricing model (17:45)
- Who this work is ideal for (23:01)
“Looking at the roots of how capitalism and colonialism came to be, and really not just in an intellectual way, but what is the meaning of that on our bodies .”
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Angela Bryant (00:08):
Welcome, I'm Angela Bryant and you're
listening to The Angel RatedShow, where we have inspiring
conversations with the peoplebehind the products and services
most often used by onlinebusiness owners. On the show,
you'll hear how their personalbeliefs and values have
influenced their businesses. Ifyou're an online entrepreneur
who wants to know about theintegrity and impact of the
(00:28):
businesses you're buying from,then this is the show for you.
Hello, and welcome to thisepisode of The Angel Rated Show.
I'm Angela Bryant and with metoday I have Anuradha Kowtha. So
Anuradha is a catalyst, aneducator and consultant who
works with individuals, smallbusinesses and organizations to
(00:51):
liberate their essence, so thatthey can meet these uncertain
times with resilience andcourage. Anuradha's journey
across both public and privatesectors has has led Anuradha to
see systemic issues likehierarchy and exploitation, and
find ways to address systemicissues at their root cause. The
thread that runs throughAnuradha's work is illuminating
(01:14):
and liberating individuals andsmall teams from the
indoctrination and cookiecutterthinking that comes from
capitalism and colonialism, sothat they can provide bold,
innovative solutions rooted injustice for their clients.
Anuradha Kowtha (01:29):
Thank you. What an introduction, thank you. I
don't know where to start. A lotof things I have done, as I as I
said, and as you said, in thebio, I have been both in the
public sector more in the publicsector and some in the private
sector. And just keep seeing thesame things actually started my
(01:51):
work in environmental activism,I was actually working with New
Mexico parks or New MexicoPublic Interest Research Group,
and we were working on water, wehad a, you know, campaign around
water loopholes that developerswere using to create more
subdivisions that didn't have tohave metered water in a desert
(02:12):
environment like New Mexico. Sothat's where I started, but I
went into, you know, I went, Iwas a school teacher for many
years, high school science,teacher, and so on. And then I,
then I moved into doing mymaster's work, and I had an
opportunity to look at theimpact that British had in
colonialism in India in a veryspecific area, and in this
(02:36):
specific dance form. And thatkind of was a really healing
moment, because I got to look atpatriarchy, and colonialism, and
so on. And it was such a healingpoint in my life. And for them,
I was like, Oh, I need to bringmore of this into the work I do
in the classroom, I need to, youknow, what's missing from the
environmental movement is thislens. So wherever I kept,
(03:00):
wherever I would try something,or do an internship or whatever,
because I like to butterfly interms of like a lot of
experiences, I like to network,I like to connect, I just kept
coming back to, oh, if we don'tdismantle this at the root, this
is this is where we keep findingthe same situations where, like
(03:20):
I said, cookie cutter thinkingthat we can't get past that we
can't get to something new andinnovative. We can't access the
indigenous wisdom, we can't doso many things, because we're
limited by this thinking.
Angela Bryant (03:34):
So that that brought in some of your thinking
around sort of colonialism andthe issues that that came with
that. Were the this interest insort of post capitalism, where
does that come from? And how,how did you bring that into your
work?
Anuradha Kowtha (03:50):
That's a good question. I think the interest
in looking at the root, whenwe're talking about the root of
all of this, the root iscapitalism and colonialism.
First, it started here inWestern Europe. So the idea of
the enclosures many of us maybein Europe, maybe talked about
(04:11):
it, learned about it, I didn't Iwish I'm from the US. But that's
that was part of the insidiousnature of let's close off land
that was public, freely used forpublic use. And so we can start
to see Oh, my gosh, this thisspecific use of propaganda, the
benefit system that we see nowwas all in first envisioned
(04:34):
here, and perfected and then wetook it abroad with different
mechanisms of what we now callcolonialism to extract and
exploit.
Angela Bryant (04:46):
So this is obviously I mean, it's a massive
topic and it clearly now driveseverything that you're doing in
your business and in The KowthaConstellation, which is your
business. So where where do youwant to take that I mean, have
you got a legacy you want tocreate? Have you got a big
vision for where you're whereyou want to take your business
(05:06):
and the work that you're doing?
Anuradha Kowtha (05:10):
I have so many visions I am, I have too many
visions, that's really thething, I would like to do so
many things. And to be honest,the place where I, the tension,
I often bump up against thisbeing in a disabled body being,
you know, neurodivergent, Ioften run out of capacity to do
my big vision. So that's kind ofthe thing of how can I balance
(05:32):
these two, and some of my visionis making sure this information
is in more people's hands,right? So we can actually
understand the roots of it,because we can't help to, like
bring up the whole thing, ifwe're not looking at the roots,
if we're not looking at how itis impacting it even in us, like
a lot of us say, oh, okay, youknow, it's not a white supremacy
(05:55):
of I'm not racist, or I'm not,you know, I'm not. And it's
like, No, these things live inus, like, actually how
propaganda and indoctrinationworks is, it comes into the way
we do the way we think the waywe be in the world. So we need
to examine that. So that's onepiece of it. I also have an idea
(06:16):
at some point to create withSowing Post Capitalist Seeds,
some more training, some moreuseful things that businesses
could be using it because whatwe're going to be talking about
today, Sowing Post CapitalistSeeds is a foundation course
what we recommend everyone totake, but we want to create some
more specific businesstrainings. And then I have this
(06:40):
a media company kind of that Ithink is coming out of all of
this, where we can actuallylearn how my master's is in
rhetoric. So how do we actuallyuse media to influence to change
minds and hearts? Right? How canwe do that? And how can we do
that with the decolonial lens,because so many times I want to
(07:02):
tell my story. And if I want tofind South Asian images, I
mostly have to be B roll footageor images, I am looking at White
gays, colonial gays in theimages that are in my selection.
And I'm like, I would like totell my own story of I don't
have access to these things. I'mlimited to tell the story in the
(07:23):
way that white gaze or thesekinds of things show up right
that they are those things,those tropes tell our story. So
I want to play in the mediaspace. I don't know how it's
going to look right now.
Angela Bryant (07:37):
But it's great to have that that idea and that
ambition and that vision forwhere you want to go. So you
mentioned Sowing Post CapitalistSeeds. So this is the course
that you've developed. Andyou've got another intake of it
coming up in September. So wetitled this are sowing post
capitalist seeds in yourbusiness, because there's a lot
of online business owners herewho might be watching this. So
(07:58):
tell us what that course isabout what it means to sow post
capitalist seeds in yourbusiness.
Anuradha Kowtha (08:05):
Yeah, absolutely. First about the
course it would. It's not justmy creation, it was co created
by my partner and I, businesspartner, co facilitator, Mariah
Helms. And we started basically,it was really amazing how we
Angela Bryant (08:20):
It just sounds so I mean, I know you called it a
even met, I was at the timeworking on kind of an Asian and
Pacific Island space, where wecould kind of do our reclaiming
journey. And she is she is ayoga teacher. And she said she
wanted to give a percentage ofher profits, or her earnings
(08:41):
from yoga, to support someonewho is South Asian to get the
support with me. So that's howwe first met, she wanted to just
have my pay pal, so she couldsend some money monthly amount
to me. And I said, Well, ifyou're gonna send money, I would
like to get to know you. And westarted talking, and maybe we
spoke every, maybe every week.
And then we started developingthis curriculum. First we said,
(09:03):
Oh, is it culturalappropriation, and we kept
digging, as this is anti racism,they'll keep digging. And we
were like, Oh, no, capitalism isthe underpinning of this. And
that's where we started thiscourse. So this is the sixth
time we'll be teaching it. Andit every time we have different
people and we want to keep, keepthat, you know, sharpening the
(09:24):
saw, we bring in new speakers,or we try to bring in new fresh
perspectives, because we arealso continuing to learn and
unpack, and it's a 14 weekfoundation course that anybody
can take and we've had people,who are teachers, who are
students, who are disabled, whoare under underemployed or
(09:45):
unemployed, taking it we've hadonline business owners, we
thought nonprofit owners, youname it, a lot of artists, so
many different types of peopleand they and we really look at
so, you know, the political,economic, socio political, the
different lenses of how we canfoundation course. But it sounds
(10:06):
so interesting to just keeplook at anti oppression work.
And the first part of the classis looking at the roots of how
capitalism and colonialism cameto be. And really not just in an
intellectual way, but what doeswhat is the meaning of that on
our bodies, because that is abig part of this, the inter
personal, the personal, theembodiment of how these things
(10:28):
impact us. And then the secondpart of the journey is we look
at different ways we can look atmoney, land ethic, mutual aid,
the body, so many topics, and westart to come up with our own
praxis within community, how dowe now change our, our mind
around our own land ethic or ourmoney ethic, because when we
(10:51):
start to see Oh, there's amutual aid piece that we need to
be considering or, you know, soon, we look at other movements
that are going on. So it's areally rich course, that is
like, we don't want people whoare just beginning their
journey, in terms of, it's notpeeling away all those layers
and looking down right intoan anti racism 101 or an anti
(11:13):
oppression 101, we want peoplewho've done a little bit of
work. And then we really createthis really good foundation of
now from here, I can start tosee possibilities like because,
because colonialism andcapitalism live in our bodies,
like trauma. And so if we'renot, in this, I'm not, I'm not a
therapist, or anything. So Idon't want to make any claims in
(11:37):
that. But the trauma does livein our body. And what most
people say about the course is,oh, I can be in my body. Now I
can see possibilities that Icouldn't see before. Like
before, I just thought Oh, thisis like, oh, capitalism is
amalgomous. I don't know what itis, I don't know how to name it.
I don't know how to relate towe're already relating to
(11:59):
capitalism, whether or not we,we want to or know about it. But
people will say, Oh, they havethis new perspective, they have
this new way of looking atthings and they start to create
this possibilities, they canlean into the possibilities that
they couldn't even see before.
And they can see, oh, I mighthave been actually doing the
right things. Now I know, I havesome steps, or I have some
(12:22):
community supporting me thatmaybe they didn't feel they had
before.
those seeds to really understandthat capitalism is the thing
that has underpinned a lot ofthose issues, and then really
(12:43):
unpacking that to understand theimpact it's, it's had on you, on
individuals on other people. Soif you were if someone was an
online business owner, or youknow, an entrepreneur of some
sort, and they took this course,what sort of impact because
they're obviously working in acapitalist world with because
they are a business owner? Sowhat how would that then work?
(13:05):
What what impact might thecourse have on how they see
doing business? And how theystructure their business? Or how
they operate their business?
What's Is it something theyshould be scared of? Or, you
know, run towards what alwaysit's more intellectual exercise?
Or will it just really changethings about their, how they
operate? That's there's so manyquestions.
Anuradha Kowtha (13:28):
Big questions, too. And I love it. And I love
it. I kind of wanted to focus inon a kind of a small case study
that we had business owners whoare course creators, who took
our class, and they both took itas as you know, they signed up
and took the same roundtogether. So they went through
the material together. And Ipresume they also had
(13:50):
discussions besides our 14 weekstogether, they also had some
discussions of their own. And,you know, that they before that
weren't didn't feel like theywere on the same footing about
Angela Bryant (13:59):
That really sounds like there's almost as an
how radical their materialneeded to be their political
stance, how do they set thingsup in an accessible way? So they
weren't they weren't matching interms of, you know, maybe having
slightly different foundationsthey were resting on. They took
this course together showed thepossibility showed something new
(14:23):
that before there was this, youknow, dissonance to some degree.
And they said afterward theycame together, they felt that it
saved their businessrelationship because they were
both coming at it from the sameplace and they are innovating
the heck out of how do they nowdo really alternative pricing so
that that was a place? How dothey deliver services, what's
(14:47):
the equity within their ownbusiness working relationship,
so a lot of that money ethic hasshown up and, and because of the
pandemic, they were able toagree to some pricing that would
support their community. Andopening it up for different
types of capitalism, ie not justpayments, opening it up to pay
(15:07):
what you can models. That's notthe only way that a company can
become more accessible. But thatwas the way they chose to embody
that. And so I think that's thething that is surprising to us
that time after time, we getcomments on the embodiment
factor of I can live in my body,I can now live in my body and
(15:27):
relate to other people. Sothat's a big one that we get a
lot of, and then this community,we didn't plan to have a
community, but the people whoshow up and they connect, and
they really, some people reallybecome really good friends, or
so on. And we try to do, we'restarting to introduce an annual
retreat or an annualconversation or a reunion of
(15:50):
sorts, once during the summer.
So our reunion for all anybodywho's taken any of the previous
five rounds we're going to behaving in a week or so,
impact it The course has on you,as a person, your body, your
beliefs, your understanding howyou live in your own body, and
(16:11):
then that has then ripples onknock on effects and makes you
think about probably differentareas of your life, not just
your business, but then it couldalso have an impact on how you
work and how you. Yeah, pricingmodels or how you choose
suppliers, how you choose staff,how you make your business more
accessible, how you make it morejust or equitable in different
(16:32):
ways. So and I know, I'm alwaysreally interested in getting to
know the people behind coursesand sort of what their values
are. And obviously, your valuescome out incredibly strongly and
what you're offering. And I knowin your pricing you you have
specific offers you have tieredpricing, talk us through how
that works, because I thinkthere's also some sort of a
(16:53):
different pricing for GlobalSouth or and they're sort of
Yeah, other ways that you'reoffering things. So give us some
examples of what you do withyour pricing.
Anuradha Kowtha (17:00):
Yeah, absolutely. Well, we started the
course at 300 US dollars a fewyears ago. And we've now as we
started to understand, hey,
Angela Bryant (17:10):
Which I have to say, for 14 weeks. Seems Yeah,
incredible.
Anuradha Kowtha (17:16):
It was only 12 weeks, then we actually since
then added two weeks, we added abody week. And we added a week
on colonialism specifically. Sowe've expanded, we've actually
brought in some guest speakers.
So the extra tiers help us nowpay for the guest speakers, we
want to be paid a living wage asmuch as possible.
Angela Bryant (17:38):
So yeah, sorry, I interrupted, you explain your
Anuradha Kowtha (17:41):
Yeah, that's right. That's right, you're
tiers.
excited, I'm excited. We're nowthe tiers start at. So we've
kept that as the 300 300 USdollars is the minimum tier. And
then we also have a number oftiers going up to 900 US
dollars, I mean, with theexchange rate we charging in
(18:02):
pounds, just to make that clear,and so on. And so the exact
numbers in pounds are on thewebsite, I will let people read
that or on your Angel Ratedsite. But we also this time, I
said it was necessary becausewe've had people interested from
the Global South and two orthree times we heard last year,
hey, I want to join but theamount I make in my whatever x
(18:26):
currency is just not at thelevel that I can afford it in
your in your currency. So wecreated a new tier for pay what
you can for people from theGlobal South. And so I think
we've already had a couple ofpeople interested in that.
That's amazing. And then we havetwo people of colour, black
(18:47):
indigenous people of colorscholarships. You know, I guess
here in the UK, we use the termBAME, but similar, right? Since
we have a global audience, wechose that language. And then we
also do two, Well, it depends,depends, but at least we'll have
two work trades. And that issomebody who can help us by
(19:09):
doing labor for us in exchangefor the entry to the course. So
that generally is some sort ofadministrative work or something
special, like a special project,we need some, you know, some
hands, hands on help with stuff.
Angela Bryant (19:24):
That's an idea I'd never come across before
that was like, I mean, I've seenit in things like woofing and
like people just volunteeringand getting an exchange for
their labor bed and board orsomething. But I've not seen it
in the online business space. Sothat's quite a really
interesting way of offeringsomething a different way of
doing a pricing model.
Anuradha Kowtha (19:43):
Yeah, I love that whole thing is a great
model because it shows people Imean, it can it can also become
exploitative. So we have to becareful, right because I've
heard of Wolfers having notgreat experiences. But similar
here. You know, if we set up thecontainer of what is expected,
it's a good way to do it, butbecause not everyone has access.
And so our goal is each timeeach round, we want to make it a
(20:06):
little bit more accessible. Sowe didn't start out with the
closed captioning and so on. Weadded that in. And then we added
in, we started a lendinglibrary. So if people so some of
the books we use SylviaFederici's Taliban and the Witch
I don't have my copy here today.
But we use that in the, in thebook in in the course. So we
have four copies in the US theMariah has, and I have a copy
(20:30):
here that we can lend out. Soand we've and people have added
other books to our stash that wemight reference, you know, we
don't we don't use them by andlarge. But they're optional
readings. So some people willcheck out a book for this
semester.
Angela Bryant (20:47):
Fantastic. So if people wanted to learn more
about this, tell us where theywould go how they would get
involved. Yeah, what was that?
What would their next step be?
Anuradha Kowtha (20:58):
Yeah, that's a great question right now is
Sowing Post Capitalist Seeds,finally has its own website that
was just a few months ago thatthat is now a reality. And now
it lives at so www dot sowing,post capitalist seeds.com. And
forward slash forward slashcourse is where you can find it.
Angela Bryant (21:20):
Fantastic. And people then apply to join the
course. And yes, do you know howtheir application?
Anuradha Kowtha (21:28):
That's right?
That's right, we have anextensive application. We don't
want that to deter people. Thisis not like there's not a right
or wrong answer. There's notlike we're not ranking or
anything like that, we want toknow if you've done the work
because we might find, you know,if people haven't done as much
work, we want to keep a closereye on them in the class, in
terms of, you know, let's sayanti racism work. It's a mixed
(21:52):
race space, it's a mixed abilityspace. So we want to make sure
that we're keeping an eye oncertain people. People can apply
orally, or submit theirapplication in another format if
they would like. And then wereview it. And we haven't not
accepted anybody. We'regenerally in this time, we've
(22:12):
opened it up to all genders, soanybody can apply and where we
might flag certain things, whenwe kind of respond to you to
make sure Hey, are these thingsgoing to be set up? Or what are
your access needs? Right? So wewant to make sure we're covering
as much as we can. And thenyeah, and we start September 12,
(22:32):
in just a few weeks?
Angela Bryant (22:36):
And who would you if you had to describe the sort
of ideal? Is there an idealperson that you that would get
the most out of it? Or thatwould be? Yeah, that that is?
That is grate for? Or is it? Imean, I know you've opened it to
everyone, but is there someonethat who would you describe as
being somebody who would get themost out of it?
Anuradha Kowtha (22:55):
Yeah, well, since we're speaking about
business and business ownershere. In terms of business
owners, it's people who havebeen kind of questioning how do
I bring social justice? How do Ibring the ethic like, different
money ethic or like rooted,like, Justice oriented solutions
to my business, right? Becausehere's the thing is people
(23:18):
think, Oh, I have to now pivotand and start talking about anti
racism to do my business. Idon't think that's the way it
needs to be. There is a way toembody anti racism or anti
colonialism or anti capitalismin your business in such a way
that you don't need to nowchange what you're doing, you
(23:38):
may be changed the hell, likeyou said, we might look at your
supply chain and say, who isactually in? Where's the money
going? Right? Am I putting itback in the hands of the
historically disenfranchised ornot? Am I lifting them up? Or
maybe that's actually not a goodmodel for me, right? Because
(23:59):
some people say, Oh, I want tolet everyone into my class. And
then they, you know, want toinvite people of genders,
they're not necessarily used toworking with or, you know,
making it a mixed race space,and they bring in people and
then it's like this tokenism,and they're not necessarily
ready to handle it. So if you'reon the fence, like, hey, how do
(24:20):
I embody this ethic in a newway? Because, quite frankly, I
feel like and statistics areshowing this to be actually, you
know, like, people are losingbusiness because they are not
embracing anti oppressive workin their business. So it's prime
(24:41):
time we get on board with that,I think, across the board. And
here in the UK and Europe, I seethat we are behind the
conversation of what's going onin the US. I mean, I just so
many of us have commented onthat. So if you're just a
beginner in those ways. It's agreat place to have that
conversation, maybe for thefirst time some of these
(25:04):
conversations for the first timeand say, Oh, I haven't realized
that I haven't had a chance tounpack it. So there because, as
you said earlier, we can't go tothis place of first we start
here, and then we maybe startmoving outward and concentric
circles around us. And so itsounds Yep, go ahead. Good.
Angela Bryant (25:27):
I was gonna say, it sounds like it's you, what
we've created is a really safespace to, to do that thinking,
do that learning, and then startunderstanding and thinking about
how you can apply that learningto your to your business, for
example, in innovative ways, andthere's no what is not a one
size fits all, it's not a, youhave to go and plaster this all
over your website, it's verymuch thinking about, you have
(25:49):
different ways of doing things,what might work for you and your
business.
Anuradha Kowtha (25:52):
That's right, it's not one size fits all thing
can be really hard. Like, that'snot gonna work, right me in a
disabled body and aneurodivergent. That's not the
same experience or the sameethic that I can bring that you
know you do in your business,you have different things you
can leverage perhaps that Ican't and vice versa. So we need
to be. So we actually haveactivities that can help you
(26:15):
tease some of those out with alittle bit more nuance.
Angela Bryant (26:20):
Fantastic, isn't it before we wrap up? Because
we've been going for quite ahalf an hour, I think so just Is
there anything else you want toshare about the work you're
doing or about Sowing PostCapitalist Seeds?
Anuradha Kowtha (26:31):
There, the thing that I would say is, if
this program resonates with you,awesome, we'd love to have you
and if this program doesn'tresonate, there's someone else
doing something else do that. ItI'm not like as a teacher, I
really not attached to you doingit with me in my way. I want you
to find spaces that support youin your journey where you are.
(26:53):
But the thing is, we can't likeallow this to keep going, right?
The thing is, we all urgentlyneed to take action because the
environmental situation, all ofthe things that are going on in
the world. It's all related backto capitalism. So we need to be
dis dismantling it where we can.
So do that work, please, if youdo it with us. Awesome. And if
(27:14):
you don't deal with us alsoawesome.
Angela Bryant (27:19):
As long as you do. Yeah, amazing. Well, I've
definitely learned an awful lot.
And I'm so interested in I lovewhat you're doing. I'm really
wanted to I know we've sort ofbeen quite brave doing something
that neither of us have donemuch of before. But hopefully
sharing or having this liveconversation is Yeah, getting
the word out to more people andwe can share what you're doing.
(27:39):
And what we're make sure we dois put links in comments and
make sure we've got all thelinks added so that people can
find out more if they'reinterested. I think we'll leave
it there. Thank you ever somuch.
Anuradha Kowtha (27:54):
Thank you so much Angela.
Angela Bryant (27:57):
Thank you so much for joining us. To read the show
notes from this episode, go toAngel rated.com forward slash
podcast. And if you enjoyed thisepisode, I'd love you to
subscribe to the show. And leavea review on your favorite
podcast platform. And don'tforget to share this episodes
with your online businessfriends and let everyone know
about Anuradha's course.
(28:20):
The Angel Rated Show is broughtto you by Angel Rated the
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courses and services used byonline business owners. It's the
best place to find the perfectproduct for the next stage of
your business or personalgrowth. Learn more and list your
business free of charge at Angelrated.com
Welcome, I'm Angela Bryant and you're
listening to The Angel RatedShow, where we have inspiring
conversations with the peoplebehind the products and services
most often used by onlinebusiness owners. On the show,
you'll hear how their personalbeliefs and values have
influenced their businesses. Ifyou're an online entrepreneur
who wants to know about theintegrity and impact of the
(00:28):
businesses you're buying from,then this is the show for you.
Hello, and welcome to thisepisode of The Angel Rated Show.
I'm Angela Bryant and with metoday I have Anuradha Kowtha. So
Anuradha is a catalyst, aneducator and consultant who
works with individuals, smallbusinesses and organizations to
(00:51):
liberate their essence, so thatthey can meet these uncertain
times with resilience andcourage. Anuradha's journey
across both public and privatesectors has has led Anuradha to
see systemic issues likehierarchy and exploitation, and
find ways to address systemicissues at their root cause. The
thread that runs throughAnuradha's work is illuminating
(01:14):
and liberating individuals andsmall teams from the
indoctrination and cookiecutterthinking that comes from
capitalism and colonialism, sothat they can provide bold,
innovative solutions rooted injustice for their clients.
Anuradha Kowtha (01:29):
Thank you. What an introduction, thank you. I
don't know where to start. A lotof things I have done, as I as I
said, and as you said, in thebio, I have been both in the
public sector more in the publicsector and some in the private
sector. And just keep seeing thesame things actually started my
(01:51):
work in environmental activism,I was actually working with New
Mexico parks or New MexicoPublic Interest Research Group,
and we were working on water, wehad a, you know, campaign around
water loopholes that developerswere using to create more
subdivisions that didn't have tohave metered water in a desert
(02:12):
environment like New Mexico. Sothat's where I started, but I
went into, you know, I went, Iwas a school teacher for many
years, high school science,teacher, and so on. And then I,
then I moved into doing mymaster's work, and I had an
opportunity to look at theimpact that British had in
colonialism in India in a veryspecific area, and in this
(02:36):
specific dance form. And thatkind of was a really healing
moment, because I got to look atpatriarchy, and colonialism, and
so on. And it was such a healingpoint in my life. And for them,
I was like, Oh, I need to bringmore of this into the work I do
in the classroom, I need to, youknow, what's missing from the
environmental movement is thislens. So wherever I kept,
(03:00):
wherever I would try something,or do an internship or whatever,
because I like to butterfly interms of like a lot of
experiences, I like to network,I like to connect, I just kept
coming back to, oh, if we don'tdismantle this at the root, this
is this is where we keep findingthe same situations where, like
(03:20):
I said, cookie cutter thinkingthat we can't get past that we
can't get to something new andinnovative. We can't access the
indigenous wisdom, we can't doso many things, because we're
limited by this thinking.
Angela Bryant (03:34):
So that that brought in some of your thinking
around sort of colonialism andthe issues that that came with
that. Were the this interest insort of post capitalism, where
does that come from? And how,how did you bring that into your
work?
Anuradha Kowtha (03:50):
That's a good question. I think the interest
in looking at the root, whenwe're talking about the root of
all of this, the root iscapitalism and colonialism.
First, it started here inWestern Europe. So the idea of
the enclosures many of us maybein Europe, maybe talked about
(04:11):
it, learned about it, I didn't Iwish I'm from the US. But that's
that was part of the insidiousnature of let's close off land
that was public, freely used forpublic use. And so we can start
to see Oh, my gosh, this thisspecific use of propaganda, the
benefit system that we see nowwas all in first envisioned
(04:34):
here, and perfected and then wetook it abroad with different
mechanisms of what we now callcolonialism to extract and
exploit.
Angela Bryant (04:46):
So this is obviously I mean, it's a massive
topic and it clearly now driveseverything that you're doing in
your business and in The KowthaConstellation, which is your
business. So where where do youwant to take that I mean, have
you got a legacy you want tocreate? Have you got a big
vision for where you're whereyou want to take your business
(05:06):
and the work that you're doing?
Anuradha Kowtha (05:10):
I have so many visions I am, I have too many
visions, that's really thething, I would like to do so
many things. And to be honest,the place where I, the tension,
I often bump up against thisbeing in a disabled body being,
you know, neurodivergent, Ioften run out of capacity to do
my big vision. So that's kind ofthe thing of how can I balance
(05:32):
these two, and some of my visionis making sure this information
is in more people's hands,right? So we can actually
understand the roots of it,because we can't help to, like
bring up the whole thing, ifwe're not looking at the roots,
if we're not looking at how itis impacting it even in us, like
a lot of us say, oh, okay, youknow, it's not a white supremacy
(05:55):
of I'm not racist, or I'm not,you know, I'm not. And it's
like, No, these things live inus, like, actually how
propaganda and indoctrinationworks is, it comes into the way
we do the way we think the waywe be in the world. So we need
to examine that. So that's onepiece of it. I also have an idea
(06:16):
at some point to create withSowing Post Capitalist Seeds,
some more training, some moreuseful things that businesses
could be using it because whatwe're going to be talking about
today, Sowing Post CapitalistSeeds is a foundation course
what we recommend everyone totake, but we want to create some
more specific businesstrainings. And then I have this
(06:40):
a media company kind of that Ithink is coming out of all of
this, where we can actuallylearn how my master's is in
rhetoric. So how do we actuallyuse media to influence to change
minds and hearts? Right? How canwe do that? And how can we do
that with the decolonial lens,because so many times I want to
(07:02):
tell my story. And if I want tofind South Asian images, I
mostly have to be B roll footageor images, I am looking at White
gays, colonial gays in theimages that are in my selection.
And I'm like, I would like totell my own story of I don't
have access to these things. I'mlimited to tell the story in the
(07:23):
way that white gaze or thesekinds of things show up right
that they are those things,those tropes tell our story. So
I want to play in the mediaspace. I don't know how it's
going to look right now.
Angela Bryant (07:37):
But it's great to have that that idea and that
ambition and that vision forwhere you want to go. So you
mentioned Sowing Post CapitalistSeeds. So this is the course
that you've developed. Andyou've got another intake of it
coming up in September. So wetitled this are sowing post
capitalist seeds in yourbusiness, because there's a lot
of online business owners herewho might be watching this. So
(07:58):
tell us what that course isabout what it means to sow post
capitalist seeds in yourbusiness.
Anuradha Kowtha (08:05):
Yeah, absolutely. First about the
course it would. It's not justmy creation, it was co created
by my partner and I, businesspartner, co facilitator, Mariah
Helms. And we started basically,it was really amazing how we
Angela Bryant (08:20):
It just sounds so I mean, I know you called it a
even met, I was at the timeworking on kind of an Asian and
Pacific Island space, where wecould kind of do our reclaiming
journey. And she is she is ayoga teacher. And she said she
wanted to give a percentage ofher profits, or her earnings
(08:41):
from yoga, to support someonewho is South Asian to get the
support with me. So that's howwe first met, she wanted to just
have my pay pal, so she couldsend some money monthly amount
to me. And I said, Well, ifyou're gonna send money, I would
like to get to know you. And westarted talking, and maybe we
spoke every, maybe every week.
And then we started developingthis curriculum. First we said,
(09:03):
Oh, is it culturalappropriation, and we kept
digging, as this is anti racism,they'll keep digging. And we
were like, Oh, no, capitalism isthe underpinning of this. And
that's where we started thiscourse. So this is the sixth
time we'll be teaching it. Andit every time we have different
people and we want to keep, keepthat, you know, sharpening the
(09:24):
saw, we bring in new speakers,or we try to bring in new fresh
perspectives, because we arealso continuing to learn and
unpack, and it's a 14 weekfoundation course that anybody
can take and we've had people,who are teachers, who are
students, who are disabled, whoare under underemployed or
(09:45):
unemployed, taking it we've hadonline business owners, we
thought nonprofit owners, youname it, a lot of artists, so
many different types of peopleand they and we really look at
so, you know, the political,economic, socio political, the
different lenses of how we canfoundation course. But it sounds
(10:06):
so interesting to just keeplook at anti oppression work.
And the first part of the classis looking at the roots of how
capitalism and colonialism cameto be. And really not just in an
intellectual way, but what doeswhat is the meaning of that on
our bodies, because that is abig part of this, the inter
personal, the personal, theembodiment of how these things
(10:28):
impact us. And then the secondpart of the journey is we look
at different ways we can look atmoney, land ethic, mutual aid,
the body, so many topics, and westart to come up with our own
praxis within community, how dowe now change our, our mind
around our own land ethic or ourmoney ethic, because when we
(10:51):
start to see Oh, there's amutual aid piece that we need to
be considering or, you know, soon, we look at other movements
that are going on. So it's areally rich course, that is
like, we don't want people whoare just beginning their
journey, in terms of, it's notpeeling away all those layers
and looking down right intoan anti racism 101 or an anti
(11:13):
oppression 101, we want peoplewho've done a little bit of
work. And then we really createthis really good foundation of
now from here, I can start tosee possibilities like because,
because colonialism andcapitalism live in our bodies,
like trauma. And so if we'renot, in this, I'm not, I'm not a
therapist, or anything. So Idon't want to make any claims in
(11:37):
that. But the trauma does livein our body. And what most
people say about the course is,oh, I can be in my body. Now I
can see possibilities that Icouldn't see before. Like
before, I just thought Oh, thisis like, oh, capitalism is
amalgomous. I don't know what itis, I don't know how to name it.
I don't know how to relate towe're already relating to
(11:59):
capitalism, whether or not we,we want to or know about it. But
people will say, Oh, they havethis new perspective, they have
this new way of looking atthings and they start to create
this possibilities, they canlean into the possibilities that
they couldn't even see before.
And they can see, oh, I mighthave been actually doing the
right things. Now I know, I havesome steps, or I have some
(12:22):
community supporting me thatmaybe they didn't feel they had
before.
those seeds to really understandthat capitalism is the thing
that has underpinned a lot ofthose issues, and then really
(12:43):
unpacking that to understand theimpact it's, it's had on you, on
individuals on other people. Soif you were if someone was an
online business owner, or youknow, an entrepreneur of some
sort, and they took this course,what sort of impact because
they're obviously working in acapitalist world with because
they are a business owner? Sowhat how would that then work?
(13:05):
What what impact might thecourse have on how they see
doing business? And how theystructure their business? Or how
they operate their business?
What's Is it something theyshould be scared of? Or, you
know, run towards what alwaysit's more intellectual exercise?
Or will it just really changethings about their, how they
operate? That's there's so manyquestions.
Anuradha Kowtha (13:28):
Big questions, too. And I love it. And I love
it. I kind of wanted to focus inon a kind of a small case study
that we had business owners whoare course creators, who took
our class, and they both took itas as you know, they signed up
and took the same roundtogether. So they went through
the material together. And Ipresume they also had
(13:50):
discussions besides our 14 weekstogether, they also had some
discussions of their own. And,you know, that they before that
weren't didn't feel like theywere on the same footing about
Angela Bryant (13:59):
That really sounds like there's almost as an
how radical their materialneeded to be their political
stance, how do they set thingsup in an accessible way? So they
weren't they weren't matching interms of, you know, maybe having
slightly different foundationsthey were resting on. They took
this course together showed thepossibility showed something new
(14:23):
that before there was this, youknow, dissonance to some degree.
And they said afterward theycame together, they felt that it
saved their businessrelationship because they were
both coming at it from the sameplace and they are innovating
the heck out of how do they nowdo really alternative pricing so
that that was a place? How dothey deliver services, what's
(14:47):
the equity within their ownbusiness working relationship,
so a lot of that money ethic hasshown up and, and because of the
pandemic, they were able toagree to some pricing that would
support their community. Andopening it up for different
types of capitalism, ie not justpayments, opening it up to pay
(15:07):
what you can models. That's notthe only way that a company can
become more accessible. But thatwas the way they chose to embody
that. And so I think that's thething that is surprising to us
that time after time, we getcomments on the embodiment
factor of I can live in my body,I can now live in my body and
(15:27):
relate to other people. Sothat's a big one that we get a
lot of, and then this community,we didn't plan to have a
community, but the people whoshow up and they connect, and
they really, some people reallybecome really good friends, or
so on. And we try to do, we'restarting to introduce an annual
retreat or an annualconversation or a reunion of
(15:50):
sorts, once during the summer.
So our reunion for all anybodywho's taken any of the previous
five rounds we're going to behaving in a week or so,
impact it The course has on you,as a person, your body, your
beliefs, your understanding howyou live in your own body, and
(16:11):
then that has then ripples onknock on effects and makes you
think about probably differentareas of your life, not just
your business, but then it couldalso have an impact on how you
work and how you. Yeah, pricingmodels or how you choose
suppliers, how you choose staff,how you make your business more
accessible, how you make it morejust or equitable in different
(16:32):
ways. So and I know, I'm alwaysreally interested in getting to
know the people behind coursesand sort of what their values
are. And obviously, your valuescome out incredibly strongly and
what you're offering. And I knowin your pricing you you have
specific offers you have tieredpricing, talk us through how
that works, because I thinkthere's also some sort of a
(16:53):
different pricing for GlobalSouth or and they're sort of
Yeah, other ways that you'reoffering things. So give us some
examples of what you do withyour pricing.
Anuradha Kowtha (17:00):
Yeah, absolutely. Well, we started the
course at 300 US dollars a fewyears ago. And we've now as we
started to understand, hey,
Angela Bryant (17:10):
Which I have to say, for 14 weeks. Seems Yeah,
incredible.
Anuradha Kowtha (17:16):
It was only 12 weeks, then we actually since
then added two weeks, we added abody week. And we added a week
on colonialism specifically. Sowe've expanded, we've actually
brought in some guest speakers.
So the extra tiers help us nowpay for the guest speakers, we
want to be paid a living wage asmuch as possible.
Angela Bryant (17:38):
So yeah, sorry, I interrupted, you explain your
Anuradha Kowtha (17:41):
Yeah, that's right. That's right, you're
tiers.
excited, I'm excited. We're nowthe tiers start at. So we've
kept that as the 300 300 USdollars is the minimum tier. And
then we also have a number oftiers going up to 900 US
dollars, I mean, with theexchange rate we charging in
(18:02):
pounds, just to make that clear,and so on. And so the exact
numbers in pounds are on thewebsite, I will let people read
that or on your Angel Ratedsite. But we also this time, I
said it was necessary becausewe've had people interested from
the Global South and two orthree times we heard last year,
hey, I want to join but theamount I make in my whatever x
(18:26):
currency is just not at thelevel that I can afford it in
your in your currency. So wecreated a new tier for pay what
you can for people from theGlobal South. And so I think
we've already had a couple ofpeople interested in that.
That's amazing. And then we havetwo people of colour, black
(18:47):
indigenous people of colorscholarships. You know, I guess
here in the UK, we use the termBAME, but similar, right? Since
we have a global audience, wechose that language. And then we
also do two, Well, it depends,depends, but at least we'll have
two work trades. And that issomebody who can help us by
(19:09):
doing labor for us in exchangefor the entry to the course. So
that generally is some sort ofadministrative work or something
special, like a special project,we need some, you know, some
hands, hands on help with stuff.
Angela Bryant (19:24):
That's an idea I'd never come across before
that was like, I mean, I've seenit in things like woofing and
like people just volunteeringand getting an exchange for
their labor bed and board orsomething. But I've not seen it
in the online business space. Sothat's quite a really
interesting way of offeringsomething a different way of
doing a pricing model.
Anuradha Kowtha (19:43):
Yeah, I love that whole thing is a great
model because it shows people Imean, it can it can also become
exploitative. So we have to becareful, right because I've
heard of Wolfers having notgreat experiences. But similar
here. You know, if we set up thecontainer of what is expected,
it's a good way to do it, butbecause not everyone has access.
And so our goal is each timeeach round, we want to make it a
(20:06):
little bit more accessible. Sowe didn't start out with the
closed captioning and so on. Weadded that in. And then we added
in, we started a lendinglibrary. So if people so some of
the books we use SylviaFederici's Taliban and the Witch
I don't have my copy here today.
But we use that in the, in thebook in in the course. So we
have four copies in the US theMariah has, and I have a copy
(20:30):
here that we can lend out. Soand we've and people have added
other books to our stash that wemight reference, you know, we
don't we don't use them by andlarge. But they're optional
readings. So some people willcheck out a book for this
semester.
Angela Bryant (20:47):
Fantastic. So if people wanted to learn more
about this, tell us where theywould go how they would get
involved. Yeah, what was that?
What would their next step be?
Anuradha Kowtha (20:58):
Yeah, that's a great question right now is
Sowing Post Capitalist Seeds,finally has its own website that
was just a few months ago thatthat is now a reality. And now
it lives at so www dot sowing,post capitalist seeds.com. And
forward slash forward slashcourse is where you can find it.
Angela Bryant (21:20):
Fantastic. And people then apply to join the
course. And yes, do you know howtheir application?
Anuradha Kowtha (21:28):
That's right?
That's right, we have anextensive application. We don't
want that to deter people. Thisis not like there's not a right
or wrong answer. There's notlike we're not ranking or
anything like that, we want toknow if you've done the work
because we might find, you know,if people haven't done as much
work, we want to keep a closereye on them in the class, in
terms of, you know, let's sayanti racism work. It's a mixed
(21:52):
race space, it's a mixed abilityspace. So we want to make sure
that we're keeping an eye oncertain people. People can apply
orally, or submit theirapplication in another format if
they would like. And then wereview it. And we haven't not
accepted anybody. We'regenerally in this time, we've
(22:12):
opened it up to all genders, soanybody can apply and where we
might flag certain things, whenwe kind of respond to you to
make sure Hey, are these thingsgoing to be set up? Or what are
your access needs? Right? So wewant to make sure we're covering
as much as we can. And thenyeah, and we start September 12,
(22:32):
in just a few weeks?
Angela Bryant (22:36):
And who would you if you had to describe the sort
of ideal? Is there an idealperson that you that would get
the most out of it? Or thatwould be? Yeah, that that is?
That is grate for? Or is it? Imean, I know you've opened it to
everyone, but is there someonethat who would you describe as
being somebody who would get themost out of it?
Anuradha Kowtha (22:55):
Yeah, well, since we're speaking about
business and business ownershere. In terms of business
owners, it's people who havebeen kind of questioning how do
I bring social justice? How do Ibring the ethic like, different
money ethic or like rooted,like, Justice oriented solutions
to my business, right? Becausehere's the thing is people
(23:18):
think, Oh, I have to now pivotand and start talking about anti
racism to do my business. Idon't think that's the way it
needs to be. There is a way toembody anti racism or anti
colonialism or anti capitalismin your business in such a way
that you don't need to nowchange what you're doing, you
(23:38):
may be changed the hell, likeyou said, we might look at your
supply chain and say, who isactually in? Where's the money
going? Right? Am I putting itback in the hands of the
historically disenfranchised ornot? Am I lifting them up? Or
maybe that's actually not a goodmodel for me, right? Because
(23:59):
some people say, Oh, I want tolet everyone into my class. And
then they, you know, want toinvite people of genders,
they're not necessarily used toworking with or, you know,
making it a mixed race space,and they bring in people and
then it's like this tokenism,and they're not necessarily
ready to handle it. So if you'reon the fence, like, hey, how do
(24:20):
I embody this ethic in a newway? Because, quite frankly, I
feel like and statistics areshowing this to be actually, you
know, like, people are losingbusiness because they are not
embracing anti oppressive workin their business. So it's prime
(24:41):
time we get on board with that,I think, across the board. And
here in the UK and Europe, I seethat we are behind the
conversation of what's going onin the US. I mean, I just so
many of us have commented onthat. So if you're just a
beginner in those ways. It's agreat place to have that
conversation, maybe for thefirst time some of these
(25:04):
conversations for the first timeand say, Oh, I haven't realized
that I haven't had a chance tounpack it. So there because, as
you said earlier, we can't go tothis place of first we start
here, and then we maybe startmoving outward and concentric
circles around us. And so itsounds Yep, go ahead. Good.
Angela Bryant (25:27):
I was gonna say, it sounds like it's you, what
we've created is a really safespace to, to do that thinking,
do that learning, and then startunderstanding and thinking about
how you can apply that learningto your to your business, for
example, in innovative ways, andthere's no what is not a one
size fits all, it's not a, youhave to go and plaster this all
over your website, it's verymuch thinking about, you have
(25:49):
different ways of doing things,what might work for you and your
business.
Anuradha Kowtha (25:52):
That's right, it's not one size fits all thing
can be really hard. Like, that'snot gonna work, right me in a
disabled body and aneurodivergent. That's not the
same experience or the sameethic that I can bring that you
know you do in your business,you have different things you
can leverage perhaps that Ican't and vice versa. So we need
to be. So we actually haveactivities that can help you
(26:15):
tease some of those out with alittle bit more nuance.
Angela Bryant (26:20):
Fantastic, isn't it before we wrap up? Because
we've been going for quite ahalf an hour, I think so just Is
there anything else you want toshare about the work you're
doing or about Sowing PostCapitalist Seeds?
Anuradha Kowtha (26:31):
There, the thing that I would say is, if
this program resonates with you,awesome, we'd love to have you
and if this program doesn'tresonate, there's someone else
doing something else do that. ItI'm not like as a teacher, I
really not attached to you doingit with me in my way. I want you
to find spaces that support youin your journey where you are.
(26:53):
But the thing is, we can't likeallow this to keep going, right?
The thing is, we all urgentlyneed to take action because the
environmental situation, all ofthe things that are going on in
the world. It's all related backto capitalism. So we need to be
dis dismantling it where we can.
So do that work, please, if youdo it with us. Awesome. And if
(27:14):
you don't deal with us alsoawesome.
Angela Bryant (27:19):
As long as you do. Yeah, amazing. Well, I've
definitely learned an awful lot.
And I'm so interested in I lovewhat you're doing. I'm really
wanted to I know we've sort ofbeen quite brave doing something
that neither of us have donemuch of before. But hopefully
sharing or having this liveconversation is Yeah, getting
the word out to more people andwe can share what you're doing.
(27:39):
And what we're make sure we dois put links in comments and
make sure we've got all thelinks added so that people can
find out more if they'reinterested. I think we'll leave
it there. Thank you ever somuch.
Anuradha Kowtha (27:54):
Thank you so much Angela.
Angela Bryant (27:57):
Thank you so much for joining us. To read the show
notes from this episode, go toAngel rated.com forward slash
podcast. And if you enjoyed thisepisode, I'd love you to
subscribe to the show. And leavea review on your favorite
podcast platform. And don'tforget to share this episodes
with your online businessfriends and let everyone know
about Anuradha's course.
(28:20):
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