June 16, 2021 • 29 mins
Eowyn Levene helps self-employed creatives, artists and healers make friends with money so it can be a solid foundation for their life instead of a big energy drain. Through the Creatives Do Money podcast, live classes, and a 3-month coaching program, Eowyn supports folks in building the habits, systems and mindset to thrive financially.
As well as being passionate about money management, Eowyn is also a massage therapist based in New York.
Join us as Eowyn talks about the joy of financial freedom that comes with understanding and managing your money, especially as a creative, artist or healer.
In this episode, we talk about:
- How a $100 bill led her to start her business (2:59)
- Her personal dream for the future (7:31)
- The finance information that is missing online (10:33)
- The 3 areas that she donates to regularly (14:41)
- The power of Patreon for creatives (16:52)
- How managing your money is a form of self care (20:27)
“My dearest wish is that those who create beautiful things in the world can have this foundation of confidence around money.”
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Angela Bryant (00:08):
Welcome, I'm Angela Bryant and you're
listening to The Angel RatedShow, where we have inspiring
conversations with the peoplebehind the products and services
most often used by onlinebusiness owners. On the show,
you'll hear how their personalbeliefs and values have
influenced their businesses. Ifyou're an online entrepreneur
who wants to know about theintegrity and impact of the
(00:28):
businesses you're buying from,then this is the show for you.
Welcome to this episode of TheAngel Rated Show. I'm Angela
Bryant and with me today, I haveEowyn Levene. Eowyn helps self
employed creatives, artists andhealers, make friends with
money, so it can be a solidfoundation for their life
(00:50):
instead of a big energy drain.
So welcome, Eowyn.
Eowyn Levene (00:54):
Thank you.
Angela Bryant (00:55):
You're very welcome. Do you want to start by
telling us a bit about yourselfand your business?
Eowyn Levene (01:01):
Yes, I'm coming to you from Manhattan, New York
City despite being a countrybumpkin at heart. I am settled
in here with my spouse who's aclassical musician, a couple of
cats, and I run a solo massagepractice, which I've been doing
for nine plus years. And I amabout a year into a new business
(01:22):
that's parallel to thatbusiness, which is, as you said,
helping creative folks,especially those who work for
themselves get better withmoney. I also have a podcast
called Creatives Do Money I'mall about on the nose like my
business is Plum Tree Money, thepodcast is Creatives Do Money,
no circumspection here. So yeah,in that podcast, I have some
solo episodes, which so far havereally just been introducing
(01:46):
folks to the kind of groundingpractices of what does it look
like to just handle your moneyon a day to day basis,
especially when your incomevaries. And things can be a bit
chaotic, just as a result ofowning your own business. And
then I've also been having aseries of really wonderful,
honest conversations with selfemployed creatives about what
(02:09):
money looks like in their life,some about their money, story,
and so on, and just introducingsome quote unquote experts and
sharing some of that as well.
And it's been a lot of fun.
Angela Bryant (02:19):
Fantastic. Sounds like you're Yeah, this is a real
journey that you're going to begoing on with these creatives as
well.
Eowyn Levene (02:25):
Yeah, that's my interest. You know, money work.
Working on your finances is oneof those core parts of life,
like caring for your physicalhealth or for your mental health
is just an integral part oflife. So there is no like, take
a three month course about moneyand then be done with it. I
mean, yes, sure. Take a threemonth course about money if you
(02:46):
want to do that. And that feelsright for you. But then the work
continues for the rest of ourlife. So it really is a lifelong
journey together. Absolutely.
Angela Bryant (02:54):
Do you want to tell us a bit more about the
sort of why behind your businessand why you started it?
Eowyn Levene (02:59):
Yeah, I have a few elements of the why. The moment
that is most poignant for me isa moment when I was looking
through my mother's things aftershe died of cancer about seven
years ago. I found that thislittle folded up $100 bill in
her wallets, and realized I hadseen it years before she had
(03:20):
asked me to grab something forher. And it gave me pause
specifically because that $100bill was the sum total of her
financial legacy. I have nojudgment around financial
legacy. I don't think peopleshould die handing off a bunch
of money to their children andthat is better than dying with
$100 bill in your wallet. It waspoignant because I knew she
(03:42):
wanted something different forherself. That wasn't enough for
what she wanted for her life.
She wanted the freedom thatwould have come with having more
money in her life. And thatreally stayed with me this
feeling that getting good withmoney in my life, making money
tending to money and givingmoney and doing what I want to
do according to my values, is itfeels like living out what my
(04:03):
female ancestors in particularweren't able to do. So that's
something I carry with me daily,I literally still have that $100
bill in my wallet it sits withme. I also have personally
experienced kind of hitting myrock bottom moment in finances
I've always been a good saverbut for years was trying to get
out of credit card debt and justnever managed there was it
(04:26):
always just crept up again. Iwould save money a big expense
would come along and thensuddenly I was in debt again.
And I had kind of alright that'sit never again moment that's
several years ago and reallydove into personal finance and
handling my money. And withineight months of taking it really
seriously and being veryintentional about it. Everything
(04:47):
had changed my net worth hadincreased by 32% while my income
stayed the same. And I it just Ihad like that like mind
explosion emoji moment. I waslike, Huh, this makes a real
difference. I'm making the sameamount of money. The income is
just as variable as it wasbefore. But this, this is
awesome, honestly. And I startedto really enjoy handling my
(05:07):
money and just feel reallyconfident around it. And when a
pandemic hit, and I saw how manyfolks who are in the arts or
creative industries, of coursethose, you know, revolving
around in person gathering, justhow deeply impacted they were,
and unready for catastrophe. Andof course, nobody hopes a
(05:28):
catastrophe, but part of gettinggood with money as preparing for
catastrophe and kind of having acomprehensive sense of how to
handle things. So you can dothat. And it was just a wake up
moment. For me, I feel likethere's an area that I could
really be helpful. creatives andhealers and artists are my
people like my parents, myspouse, all of my dearest loved
(05:48):
ones, like everybody lives inthis world. And yeah, my dearest
wish is that those who createbeautiful things in the world
can have this foundation ofconfidence around money.
Angela Bryant (06:02):
I love that story about the $100 bill, and your
mom just really resonatedcompletely I can imagine it.
Eowyn Levene (06:10):
And there's such a there's such a you know, of
course, like the core tenet,that money isn't everything. Of
course, money isn't everything.
Money isn't anything on acertain level. My mother lived
an adventurous well lovedincredible life. But there was
this this Yeah, this area. Yeah.
Angela Bryant (06:33):
And as you say, it's so true for so many
creatives and artists that theyhave that mentality that either
they shouldn't be making money,or there's something wrong with
making money or, yeah, and ifyou're living in that, something
that doesn't have a steadypaycheck, then obviously that
makes it all that much harderwhen something like a pandemic
hits. I mean, that's
Eowyn Levene (06:53):
Yeah, it's like a match made in hell, you know, if
you have progressive carryingvalues, often you're just kind
of ignoring the money side ofthings, because it's too related
to the damage that we see in theworld done by capitalism. and
combine that with variableincome, and it's a match made in
hell.
Angela Bryant (07:12):
Yeah, great.
Yeah. That's a great phrase.
Yeah. Really, I can imagine whyso many people get into that
mindset and how difficult it isto shift some of, and they say,
some of those thoughts andfeelings. So what sort of legacy
Do you want to create with thisbusiness? What are you aiming to
do with it over the comingyears? Yeah,
Eowyn Levene (07:31):
The dream that I have nurtured and carried with
me now for a really long time. Idon't even know how long it is
maybe 1617 years. I am verypassionate about regenerative
agriculture and sustainability.
And I've always dreamed ofstewarding not necessarily
owning, but stewarding a pieceof property and really seeing
(07:52):
what can be done through workingon that land to increase its
resilience increase itsdiversity and give back in a way
that a lot of humans activity onthe earth is very extractive. So
to try and do my part to balancethat out. But it's a big dream,
and it involves a lot of money.
(08:14):
And being a massage therapist inNew York City does not equal a
lot of money. And so yeah, I mybody is feeling ready to end
massage therapy. But my bigdreams are also feeling ready
for more money flowing throughmy life.
Angela Bryant (08:31):
It sounds like that's a Yeah, that's a big why
that real pull forwards to helpyou think about where you want
to take this business in thefuture.
Eowyn Levene (08:38):
Yeah, and there's a lot of adjunct kind of
elements that want to play in, Ithink 10 years ago, my vision
was quite ignorant of, I guess,accessibility to experiences
such as owning land and livingon property. And as I've
educated myself about privilege,and just the challenges of being
a human being in the States, ifyou're not one of the lucky,
(09:00):
privileged few, I've kind ofYeah, I've adjusted my
understanding of what it wouldlook like to do the work that I
envision, but that core tenet ofregenerating land remains.
Angela Bryant (09:12):
So how does your current business and working you
know with the creatives move youtowards that? Is it do you want
to do something with the landthat links to the creatives or
is it are they to sort of is onethe big vision and one's just
your way of getting there?
Eowyn Levene (09:28):
It's both Yeah, it's both. I mentioned very
briefly that my spouse is amusician and so he has a little
bit of a co dream which is tohost artist and musician
residences and have recording arecording studio on land and
yeah, a while I value mypersonal time and my quiet time.
(09:51):
I love having people around me Ihave lived in intentional
communities and the image ofopening up property to people to
come and visit and spend timeand do their work and benefit
from the environment isdefinitely an exciting piece of
doing it. Yeah.
Angela Bryant (10:07):
Amazing. So tell me a bit more about what your
your I mean, there's quite afledgling business, but what
have you been doing in terms ofresponding to some of the issues
that we have going on in theworld at the moment?
Eowyn Levene (10:18):
Yeah, in all honesty, I've been doing some
poking around, and some testingand trying to, you know, I know
what made an impact in my life.
And I know what's made an impactand those close to me. So I've
been going through a process ofnoticing that there is a lot of
information online about how tohandle your business finances,
(10:39):
if you're a creative, and ifyou're self employed, but much
less so how to handle yourpersonal finances, most personal
finance information out there isa lot of like old white men
telling you to like put yoursavings on autopilot, and, you
know, retire with a boat, inyour lake house, or whatever the
cliche might be. So I've beenspending some time just
(11:02):
observing where those gaps are,and realizing that focusing on
handling your personal finances,when you have variable income is
a big part of it. And also justgetting clear, like what what
are those kind of ideologicalblocks that exist for folks?
And, yeah, just identifyingthat, you know, anti capitalist
(11:23):
leanings, and, you know, socialjustice, commitment, those
things, noticing how thosethings get bundled together with
a rejection of spreadsheets, andusing a budget and all kinds of
like conventional finance speak,which can be super offputting
let to let alone just makepeople want to run and scream.
Angela Bryant (11:45):
So obviously, there's sort of you can have
that combination of beingcommitted to social justice, and
still loving a spreadsheet andbeing all over finances and
money, and they can go together.
Eowyn Levene (11:58):
So yes, not only are they not mutually exclusive,
when you get better with money,you have more money available to
you to do whatever the heck youwant to do in the world. And the
world does not benefit when yousuffer and you can't pay your
rent, and you can't haveadequate health care. Nobody
benefits like nobody's life getsbetter, because you can't pay
(12:19):
your rent on time. And I thinkgetting to the point where you
understand that the more moneyyou make, and the better you are
with your money, because Lordknows how much you make does not
equal how much you have to giveto others and do what you want
to do in the world. So thebetter you get with all of that,
the more impact you can have.
Angela Bryant (12:40):
Absolutely the bit yeah, you you don't have to
read that. Subscribe to thesuffering artist and think about
those things. You can changethat mindset to really see money
not as being evil or somethingawful, but something that you
can actually really do goodwith.
Eowyn Levene (12:55):
Someone who I really look to around that
question is the author ElizabethGilbert. So she of course wrote
Eat Pray Love that many know,for but she's also just an
exquisite novelist. Her fictionis really beautiful. And she
also has the book I'm now named,I'm like blanking on the name
(13:18):
about creativity, Big Magic.
There we go. So and in BigMagic, she really makes a point
to outline the fact that she hasalways had day jobs. She was
like raking in the dough fromEat, Pray, Love, before she
considered finally giving up thebusinesses that she had that
gave her the income and itwasn't necessarily out of
(13:40):
scarcity mindset, it was simplythat she she had built strong
financial foundations for herlife, even like in her teens and
20s of just realizing thathandling her money and being
good with money and making moneywas completely independent from
her work. And clearly she isprolific. She's highly active in
social justice and queer rightsand you know, just doing all the
(14:03):
things and being an artist andbeing really good with money.
Angela Bryant (14:09):
Yeah, I love it and I love that book. Yeah, the
main I know, right really goodwork. So is there is your Do you
or do your business support anycharities? Do you How have other
impacts that your business haveon, you know, some of these
issues that are happening?
Eowyn Levene (14:23):
Yeah, so I'm not doing at the moment, actually,
literally, because of thepandemic. I've been unable to
list or register a DBA orregister an LLC in New York
State. So I'm just a soleproprietorship. And so all of
the giving that I do regularlyhappens personally, through my
(14:44):
personal money. And I have threecategories of regular donating
that I do every month, so Idonate to some Patreon accounts
of artists and writers who workwhose work means a lot to me. I
have a monthly donation that tosomething called savory global,
which is dedicated to educatingfarmers around pasture
(15:08):
management and regeneration ofland through using grazing
animals, which to the veganslistening to this or watching
this is going to raise a ton ofred flags, in which case, I just
encourage a deep breath andmaybe looking into some of the
work, but it's powerful andimpactful. And not all land is
(15:28):
arable in the sense that you cangrow soybeans or grains or
vegetables on, there's a ton ofthe world's land that isn't
available for that kind ofgrowing. And it's very
meaningful to look at the impactof grazing animals on
regenerating soil as the healthof the topsoil is actually what
allows us to grow food andclothing and anything else we
(15:49):
want to grow on the land. Sothat's a long side note. And
there's a lot more to be saidthere. But I donate to savory
global. And then I also donateto an organization dedicated to
ending for profit prisons herein the States. I don't know if
you have for profit prisons inthe UK, but they are god awful.
I mean, there's so many thingsone can point to you. But for
(16:11):
profit prisons, or likeadvertising medications on
television, like some of theseinsanity is just unique to the
United States. And they just,they just need to end nobody
should be making a profitthrough putting brown people in
shackles. And so I donate tothem as well. Yeah, those are
(16:31):
the three main categories of myregular donations. And then
other things come in here andthere if there's a political
campaign or something else comesup.
Angela Bryant (16:41):
So for people that aren't aware of Patreon, do
you want to just explain a bitabout what other people could do
if they're interested in how tosupport artists that are out
there that they love?
Eowyn Levene (16:50):
Yeah, yeah. So I, I really love Patreon. It's a
tech platform that allowsartists and creators to charge
some monthly fee. Usually,there's a bunch of different
tiers that people engage couldbe YouTubers, writers, visual
artists, musicians, a lot ofpeople use it. And it's a way
(17:12):
for individuals to directlysupport the artist without going
through other avenues wherevarious large corporations are
siphoning out much, siphoningoff much of their work. I mean,
a perfect example is Spotify,which is a way so many people
consume music content, orpodcast content as well. And I
(17:33):
know musician who posted onTwitter one time 36,000 plays on
Spotify $17 in my bank account,or something along those lines,
it could have been even lessthan $17, they get paid almost
nothing for Spotify to get richfrom their incredible creations.
So what you can do is you canlook at the name of the person
whose music you love, you go totheir Patreon, you sign up for
(17:54):
$5 a month, you might get anextra video, or maybe a
reflection on their part, likethey can offer a wide variety of
different quote unquote, perksfor being there. As far as I'm
concerned, my main interest isjust to be like, Hey, I love
what you do. I'm giving you alittle bit of money every month,
it means a lot to me. Yeah, it'sbeen, I think, revolutionary for
a lot of creatives who live nowwhen so many people expect all
(18:16):
this incredible content to justappear for free for them, which
it often does.
Angela Bryant (18:22):
Yeah, it's a great solution. And I think
there's quite a few other thingsout there now, like, buy me a
coffee or similar things. Yeah,people are having on their
various social media profiles.
So you can just Yeah, buy them acoffee just do something nice
and support people who arecreating all this wonderful art
that we consume.
Eowyn Levene (18:40):
Yeah. And I feel like it's also it's a very
concrete way of kind of wakingpeople up to the meaning of the
arts and creative people. Likewe just take it for granted. We
see it in architecture, we seeit in advertising, like we see
in all these ways where it'sjust presented to us without us
having to consciously engage andrealize there's a human being
(19:01):
behind there with a huge amountof training and all of this work
and all of this, like just coolstuff going on. And it kind of
wakes you up. It's like oh,yeah, there's a human being that
they also deserve to make aliving the way someone who has a
quote unquote job does.
Angela Bryant (19:15):
Absolutely. And I think the other thing that the
pandemic has shown is just howmuch we miss those sort of
creative outlets when theysuddenly all get shut down and
taken away from us. And we haveno theatres, and we have no live
concert. Yeah, anything elsegoing on?
Eowyn Levene (19:29):
I one of the amazing things about living in
New York City is the sheer massof talent that resides here. And
during the pandemic, a lot ofmusicians have just played on
the streets and more than onceI've just stopped with tears
streaming down my face, justmissing it so much. You know,
there's a jazz musician whoplays at the farmers market
(19:49):
where my massage office is andyeah, whenever I can I stop and
listen and give him some money.
And I'm just like, Yeah, whenare we going to be able to just
gather together again, and havethese common experiences that
are just transformative andmoving?
Angela Bryant (20:05):
Yes, I love that.
Or funny and irreverent. Like,whatever the thing is, you know,
but yeah, any Yeah, the wholeany any thought and culture and
so is there anything else thatyou've not mentioned that would
that is sort of part of yourworldview or your personal
values that you've that you'd bewilling to share?
Eowyn Levene (20:26):
Well, I feel like I haven't really talked very
much about the money stuff. AndI'd like to just share that
I've, I've slowly over theyears, realize that handling
your finances, and beingintentional with managing your
money is really a personalpractice. It is something that
you can do to attend to yourselfevery day, like stretching or
(20:48):
drinking enough water or eatingfood that feels good in your
body. Like that act of checkingyour bank balances recording the
things you want to recordlooking ahead for next week or
two and saying, alright, what'scoming up? What do I want? What
do I need to do? How much moneydo I need to reserve to make
sure I'm taking care of things,not putting things on a credit
card, like that process, whileit can sound really prosaic, it
(21:11):
is profound. And it's a way ofdeeply caring for your future
self in just the same way ascaring for your body or your
mental health. So I just reallylike to underline that because
the work itself can I mean, Isuppose it's equivalent to going
to the gym and just sweating anddoing your reps and like just
(21:32):
being over it. But you don'tnecessarily have like the
neurotransmitter rewards thatyou get when you go to the gym.
So once you've made yourself goto the gym, like nobody regrets
a workout, once they've done it,you don't get that same like
visceral hit, when you do likewhen you tend to your finances.
But nonetheless, it's the samekind of practice, like you just
(21:54):
you do the work, once you learnit, and you get good at it and
you create those habits. Doesn'ttake a ton of time. But the
impact on your future self ispretty rad. people even say rod
anymore, I don't know, probablylike the 80s in the 90s. So
Angela Bryant (22:12):
yeah, absolutely me too. And I think I mean, just
thinking about some of thosethings. Some there's so many
new, sort of, especially in theUK, we're getting so many new
bank accounts now or sort ofbanking institutions, which have
really modernizing what you cando and what you can track and
how easily you can categorizeeverything that you're spending.
And I'm sure if they're notalready doing it, it will become
(22:35):
more gamified it will become itwill use a lot of this, you
know, positive reward psychologygoing forwards? Because Yeah,
you can just see how that'sgoing to start happening with
some of the new tech. Yes,
Eowyn Levene (22:46):
yeah, more and more. So although I will just
provide a word of caution, whichThat in itself can be something
that the folks that I work withbecome resistant to as well,
this idea that there's alwaysanother app and always another
tech solution for something inour day to day life. And then
your phone suddenly has 58different apps on it, and you
(23:07):
can't find anything. And thenhow do you use that program
anyway. And now I have to takeit whole course so they can
learn QuickBooks. And so I willsay that if using apps and
software fits for you and yourpersonality and your natural
strengths, awesome, like use itall. But you also can just use a
pen and paper and have a highlyfunctional system or just a
(23:28):
simple spreadsheet. So I willjust say that folks need to find
what fits them best. Althoughone note just on what you're
pointing to is online banking,and the ability to have multiple
different accounts within oneinstitution without paying extra
fees like that is huge. Likejust to be able to like
categorize your pots of money.
It can be one of the ways thatyou motivate yourself over time
(23:49):
as you build up your savings orwhatever you're doing. Yeah.
Angela Bryant (23:56):
Yeah, juicy really is because it's I yeah, I
am one of those people that hasalways you know, love money and
I you know, quite enjoy countingmoney or looking understanding
how and I love spreadsheets. Soyou know, yeah, all good with
that. But yeah, we've all gotthese buried mindset issues or
(24:18):
concerns or worries or thingsthat don't work quite right or
the parts of it that we'rescared of, or definitely we
haven't done before. So it's allgood. Yeah. and unpack
Eowyn Levene (24:26):
Well, and the world that we live on the world
that we live in points towardsnever feeling like you have
enough or you are enough,especially if you're socialized
as a woman. And that just getsmixed in with financial stuff,
this feeling of like needingmore more more or feeling like
you lack capacity or it's justtoo much of a mess. You're never
(24:48):
going to be good about and goodenough and if someone sees your
mess, then they're going to hateyou or judge you whatever
there's Yeah, there's just a lotof around it. previous podcast
guest of mine. kJ Natural, shesaid that Money is charged and
tender. And I take that with me.
I think she summarized it sowell.
Angela Bryant (25:06):
So much judgment on ourselves. And
Eowyn Levene (25:10):
yes, yeah. Well, we tend to judge others in equal
proportion to how much we judgeourselves. So yeah.
Angela Bryant (25:17):
So before we wrap up, do you want to just tell us
something more about youpersonally, your you know, what,
what are things that you enjoydoing? Apart from obviously,
going out to theater and art andmusic? Yeah, where's your
hobbies and pastimes heading?
Eowyn Levene (25:35):
Yeah, so my dear loves at the moment, I will say
that I am someone with a lot ofinterests and a lot of kind of
simmering kind of areas that Imight tend to in a given year
and others not. But persistentloves gardening, I have a 10
foot by 12 foot garden bed inState Park, that's a few blocks
(25:55):
from me. And so I'm carefullygrowing some flowers for the
second year in a row. And thatgives me a lot of joy, and sort
of nurtures that long term dreamof living and working on land.
And I'm also a slow runner andreally love moving my body. And
there's actually for anyone elsewho's like, in middle age and
(26:16):
living in a fat body and wantsto be a runner, there are so
many cool resources out therenot least there's a Facebook
group called fat girl runningand there is a podcast, not your
average runner. And so there'sall these amazing resources. So
like, I don't know, six or sevenyears ago, I decided I wanted to
learn how to run so I love beinga slow runner. And yeah,
(26:38):
spending time with friends,people who I love, and giving
them hugs.
Angela Bryant (26:44):
Oh, one day, one day soon, I'm sure we'll get to
that point. Yeah, that's such afantastic conversation. I'm
really, yeah, I really love whatyou're doing. And it sounds like
it's incredibly needed. And we,our whole entire culture, and
society is so much poorer as asociety, both financially and
(27:05):
emotionally and everything elseif we don't have those artists,
and creatives and makers anddoers in it, and we need to do
everything we can to lift themup and get them thinking about
these things and doingeverything they can to not be
struggling to make ends meet.
Yeah. Do you want to just finishby telling us a bit more about
where people can find you yourservices?
Eowyn Levene (27:29):
Yeah, best place to find me as my website plum
tree money.com. I have a PDFdownload if people are
interested. It's called threesimple steps to improve your
finances even when your money isa mess. And of course the
podcast Creatives Do Money iffolks like listening to podcasts
I am on Instagram, although alittle ambivalently so but I'm
(27:50):
there for all of the genuinelike genuine relationship
building. I'm there for it allof the distraction and the
comparison. It is not so much.
So I'm there sometimes. Andother times I'm not there, I
will say but yeah.
Angela Bryant (28:05):
Amazing. Well, thank you ever so much for
joining us. So Eowyn. And so foreveryone else if you you can
read the show notes from thisepisode. To do that you go to
Angel rated.com/podcast. And ifyou enjoyed this podcast, I'd
love you to subscribe to theshow. And leave a review on your
favorite podcast platform. Anddon't forget to share this
(28:25):
episode with your onlinebusiness friends especially all
those creatives and artists andmakers out there. The Angel
Rated Show is brought to you byAngel Rated the independent
directory and review site forall the products courses and
services used by online businessowners. It's the best place to
find the perfect product for thenext stage of your business or
(28:48):
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Welcome, I'm Angela Bryant and you're
listening to The Angel RatedShow, where we have inspiring
conversations with the peoplebehind the products and services
most often used by onlinebusiness owners. On the show,
you'll hear how their personalbeliefs and values have
influenced their businesses. Ifyou're an online entrepreneur
who wants to know about theintegrity and impact of the
(00:28):
businesses you're buying from,then this is the show for you.
Welcome to this episode of TheAngel Rated Show. I'm Angela
Bryant and with me today, I haveEowyn Levene. Eowyn helps self
employed creatives, artists andhealers, make friends with
money, so it can be a solidfoundation for their life
(00:50):
instead of a big energy drain.
So welcome, Eowyn.
Eowyn Levene (00:54):
Thank you.
Angela Bryant (00:55):
You're very welcome. Do you want to start by
telling us a bit about yourselfand your business?
Eowyn Levene (01:01):
Yes, I'm coming to you from Manhattan, New York
City despite being a countrybumpkin at heart. I am settled
in here with my spouse who's aclassical musician, a couple of
cats, and I run a solo massagepractice, which I've been doing
for nine plus years. And I amabout a year into a new business
(01:22):
that's parallel to thatbusiness, which is, as you said,
helping creative folks,especially those who work for
themselves get better withmoney. I also have a podcast
called Creatives Do Money I'mall about on the nose like my
business is Plum Tree Money, thepodcast is Creatives Do Money,
no circumspection here. So yeah,in that podcast, I have some
solo episodes, which so far havereally just been introducing
(01:46):
folks to the kind of groundingpractices of what does it look
like to just handle your moneyon a day to day basis,
especially when your incomevaries. And things can be a bit
chaotic, just as a result ofowning your own business. And
then I've also been having aseries of really wonderful,
honest conversations with selfemployed creatives about what
(02:09):
money looks like in their life,some about their money, story,
and so on, and just introducingsome quote unquote experts and
sharing some of that as well.
And it's been a lot of fun.
Angela Bryant (02:19):
Fantastic. Sounds like you're Yeah, this is a real
journey that you're going to begoing on with these creatives as
well.
Eowyn Levene (02:25):
Yeah, that's my interest. You know, money work.
Working on your finances is oneof those core parts of life,
like caring for your physicalhealth or for your mental health
is just an integral part oflife. So there is no like, take
a three month course about moneyand then be done with it. I
mean, yes, sure. Take a threemonth course about money if you
(02:46):
want to do that. And that feelsright for you. But then the work
continues for the rest of ourlife. So it really is a lifelong
journey together. Absolutely.
Angela Bryant (02:54):
Do you want to tell us a bit more about the
sort of why behind your businessand why you started it?
Eowyn Levene (02:59):
Yeah, I have a few elements of the why. The moment
that is most poignant for me isa moment when I was looking
through my mother's things aftershe died of cancer about seven
years ago. I found that thislittle folded up $100 bill in
her wallets, and realized I hadseen it years before she had
(03:20):
asked me to grab something forher. And it gave me pause
specifically because that $100bill was the sum total of her
financial legacy. I have nojudgment around financial
legacy. I don't think peopleshould die handing off a bunch
of money to their children andthat is better than dying with
$100 bill in your wallet. It waspoignant because I knew she
(03:42):
wanted something different forherself. That wasn't enough for
what she wanted for her life.
She wanted the freedom thatwould have come with having more
money in her life. And thatreally stayed with me this
feeling that getting good withmoney in my life, making money
tending to money and givingmoney and doing what I want to
do according to my values, is itfeels like living out what my
(04:03):
female ancestors in particularweren't able to do. So that's
something I carry with me daily,I literally still have that $100
bill in my wallet it sits withme. I also have personally
experienced kind of hitting myrock bottom moment in finances
I've always been a good saverbut for years was trying to get
out of credit card debt and justnever managed there was it
(04:26):
always just crept up again. Iwould save money a big expense
would come along and thensuddenly I was in debt again.
And I had kind of alright that'sit never again moment that's
several years ago and reallydove into personal finance and
handling my money. And withineight months of taking it really
seriously and being veryintentional about it. Everything
(04:47):
had changed my net worth hadincreased by 32% while my income
stayed the same. And I it just Ihad like that like mind
explosion emoji moment. I waslike, Huh, this makes a real
difference. I'm making the sameamount of money. The income is
just as variable as it wasbefore. But this, this is
awesome, honestly. And I startedto really enjoy handling my
(05:07):
money and just feel reallyconfident around it. And when a
pandemic hit, and I saw how manyfolks who are in the arts or
creative industries, of coursethose, you know, revolving
around in person gathering, justhow deeply impacted they were,
and unready for catastrophe. Andof course, nobody hopes a
(05:28):
catastrophe, but part of gettinggood with money as preparing for
catastrophe and kind of having acomprehensive sense of how to
handle things. So you can dothat. And it was just a wake up
moment. For me, I feel likethere's an area that I could
really be helpful. creatives andhealers and artists are my
people like my parents, myspouse, all of my dearest loved
(05:48):
ones, like everybody lives inthis world. And yeah, my dearest
wish is that those who createbeautiful things in the world
can have this foundation ofconfidence around money.
Angela Bryant (06:02):
I love that story about the $100 bill, and your
mom just really resonatedcompletely I can imagine it.
Eowyn Levene (06:10):
And there's such a there's such a you know, of
course, like the core tenet,that money isn't everything. Of
course, money isn't everything.
Money isn't anything on acertain level. My mother lived
an adventurous well lovedincredible life. But there was
this this Yeah, this area. Yeah.
Angela Bryant (06:33):
And as you say, it's so true for so many
creatives and artists that theyhave that mentality that either
they shouldn't be making money,or there's something wrong with
making money or, yeah, and ifyou're living in that, something
that doesn't have a steadypaycheck, then obviously that
makes it all that much harderwhen something like a pandemic
hits. I mean, that's
Eowyn Levene (06:53):
Yeah, it's like a match made in hell, you know, if
you have progressive carryingvalues, often you're just kind
of ignoring the money side ofthings, because it's too related
to the damage that we see in theworld done by capitalism. and
combine that with variableincome, and it's a match made in
hell.
Angela Bryant (07:12):
Yeah, great.
Yeah. That's a great phrase.
Yeah. Really, I can imagine whyso many people get into that
mindset and how difficult it isto shift some of, and they say,
some of those thoughts andfeelings. So what sort of legacy
Do you want to create with thisbusiness? What are you aiming to
do with it over the comingyears? Yeah,
Eowyn Levene (07:31):
The dream that I have nurtured and carried with
me now for a really long time. Idon't even know how long it is
maybe 1617 years. I am verypassionate about regenerative
agriculture and sustainability.
And I've always dreamed ofstewarding not necessarily
owning, but stewarding a pieceof property and really seeing
(07:52):
what can be done through workingon that land to increase its
resilience increase itsdiversity and give back in a way
that a lot of humans activity onthe earth is very extractive. So
to try and do my part to balancethat out. But it's a big dream,
and it involves a lot of money.
(08:14):
And being a massage therapist inNew York City does not equal a
lot of money. And so yeah, I mybody is feeling ready to end
massage therapy. But my bigdreams are also feeling ready
for more money flowing throughmy life.
Angela Bryant (08:31):
It sounds like that's a Yeah, that's a big why
that real pull forwards to helpyou think about where you want
to take this business in thefuture.
Eowyn Levene (08:38):
Yeah, and there's a lot of adjunct kind of
elements that want to play in, Ithink 10 years ago, my vision
was quite ignorant of, I guess,accessibility to experiences
such as owning land and livingon property. And as I've
educated myself about privilege,and just the challenges of being
a human being in the States, ifyou're not one of the lucky,
(09:00):
privileged few, I've kind ofYeah, I've adjusted my
understanding of what it wouldlook like to do the work that I
envision, but that core tenet ofregenerating land remains.
Angela Bryant (09:12):
So how does your current business and working you
know with the creatives move youtowards that? Is it do you want
to do something with the landthat links to the creatives or
is it are they to sort of is onethe big vision and one's just
your way of getting there?
Eowyn Levene (09:28):
It's both Yeah, it's both. I mentioned very
briefly that my spouse is amusician and so he has a little
bit of a co dream which is tohost artist and musician
residences and have recording arecording studio on land and
yeah, a while I value mypersonal time and my quiet time.
(09:51):
I love having people around me Ihave lived in intentional
communities and the image ofopening up property to people to
come and visit and spend timeand do their work and benefit
from the environment isdefinitely an exciting piece of
doing it. Yeah.
Angela Bryant (10:07):
Amazing. So tell me a bit more about what your
your I mean, there's quite afledgling business, but what
have you been doing in terms ofresponding to some of the issues
that we have going on in theworld at the moment?
Eowyn Levene (10:18):
Yeah, in all honesty, I've been doing some
poking around, and some testingand trying to, you know, I know
what made an impact in my life.
And I know what's made an impactand those close to me. So I've
been going through a process ofnoticing that there is a lot of
information online about how tohandle your business finances,
(10:39):
if you're a creative, and ifyou're self employed, but much
less so how to handle yourpersonal finances, most personal
finance information out there isa lot of like old white men
telling you to like put yoursavings on autopilot, and, you
know, retire with a boat, inyour lake house, or whatever the
cliche might be. So I've beenspending some time just
(11:02):
observing where those gaps are,and realizing that focusing on
handling your personal finances,when you have variable income is
a big part of it. And also justgetting clear, like what what
are those kind of ideologicalblocks that exist for folks?
And, yeah, just identifyingthat, you know, anti capitalist
(11:23):
leanings, and, you know, socialjustice, commitment, those
things, noticing how thosethings get bundled together with
a rejection of spreadsheets, andusing a budget and all kinds of
like conventional finance speak,which can be super offputting
let to let alone just makepeople want to run and scream.
Angela Bryant (11:45):
So obviously, there's sort of you can have
that combination of beingcommitted to social justice, and
still loving a spreadsheet andbeing all over finances and
money, and they can go together.
Eowyn Levene (11:58):
So yes, not only are they not mutually exclusive,
when you get better with money,you have more money available to
you to do whatever the heck youwant to do in the world. And the
world does not benefit when yousuffer and you can't pay your
rent, and you can't haveadequate health care. Nobody
benefits like nobody's life getsbetter, because you can't pay
(12:19):
your rent on time. And I thinkgetting to the point where you
understand that the more moneyyou make, and the better you are
with your money, because Lordknows how much you make does not
equal how much you have to giveto others and do what you want
to do in the world. So thebetter you get with all of that,
the more impact you can have.
Angela Bryant (12:40):
Absolutely the bit yeah, you you don't have to
read that. Subscribe to thesuffering artist and think about
those things. You can changethat mindset to really see money
not as being evil or somethingawful, but something that you
can actually really do goodwith.
Eowyn Levene (12:55):
Someone who I really look to around that
question is the author ElizabethGilbert. So she of course wrote
Eat Pray Love that many know,for but she's also just an
exquisite novelist. Her fictionis really beautiful. And she
also has the book I'm now named,I'm like blanking on the name
(13:18):
about creativity, Big Magic.
There we go. So and in BigMagic, she really makes a point
to outline the fact that she hasalways had day jobs. She was
like raking in the dough fromEat, Pray, Love, before she
considered finally giving up thebusinesses that she had that
gave her the income and itwasn't necessarily out of
(13:40):
scarcity mindset, it was simplythat she she had built strong
financial foundations for herlife, even like in her teens and
20s of just realizing thathandling her money and being
good with money and making moneywas completely independent from
her work. And clearly she isprolific. She's highly active in
social justice and queer rightsand you know, just doing all the
(14:03):
things and being an artist andbeing really good with money.
Angela Bryant (14:09):
Yeah, I love it and I love that book. Yeah, the
main I know, right really goodwork. So is there is your Do you
or do your business support anycharities? Do you How have other
impacts that your business haveon, you know, some of these
issues that are happening?
Eowyn Levene (14:23):
Yeah, so I'm not doing at the moment, actually,
literally, because of thepandemic. I've been unable to
list or register a DBA orregister an LLC in New York
State. So I'm just a soleproprietorship. And so all of
the giving that I do regularlyhappens personally, through my
(14:44):
personal money. And I have threecategories of regular donating
that I do every month, so Idonate to some Patreon accounts
of artists and writers who workwhose work means a lot to me. I
have a monthly donation that tosomething called savory global,
which is dedicated to educatingfarmers around pasture
(15:08):
management and regeneration ofland through using grazing
animals, which to the veganslistening to this or watching
this is going to raise a ton ofred flags, in which case, I just
encourage a deep breath andmaybe looking into some of the
work, but it's powerful andimpactful. And not all land is
(15:28):
arable in the sense that you cangrow soybeans or grains or
vegetables on, there's a ton ofthe world's land that isn't
available for that kind ofgrowing. And it's very
meaningful to look at the impactof grazing animals on
regenerating soil as the healthof the topsoil is actually what
allows us to grow food andclothing and anything else we
(15:49):
want to grow on the land. Sothat's a long side note. And
there's a lot more to be saidthere. But I donate to savory
global. And then I also donateto an organization dedicated to
ending for profit prisons herein the States. I don't know if
you have for profit prisons inthe UK, but they are god awful.
I mean, there's so many thingsone can point to you. But for
(16:11):
profit prisons, or likeadvertising medications on
television, like some of theseinsanity is just unique to the
United States. And they just,they just need to end nobody
should be making a profitthrough putting brown people in
shackles. And so I donate tothem as well. Yeah, those are
(16:31):
the three main categories of myregular donations. And then
other things come in here andthere if there's a political
campaign or something else comesup.
Angela Bryant (16:41):
So for people that aren't aware of Patreon, do
you want to just explain a bitabout what other people could do
if they're interested in how tosupport artists that are out
there that they love?
Eowyn Levene (16:50):
Yeah, yeah. So I, I really love Patreon. It's a
tech platform that allowsartists and creators to charge
some monthly fee. Usually,there's a bunch of different
tiers that people engage couldbe YouTubers, writers, visual
artists, musicians, a lot ofpeople use it. And it's a way
(17:12):
for individuals to directlysupport the artist without going
through other avenues wherevarious large corporations are
siphoning out much, siphoningoff much of their work. I mean,
a perfect example is Spotify,which is a way so many people
consume music content, orpodcast content as well. And I
(17:33):
know musician who posted onTwitter one time 36,000 plays on
Spotify $17 in my bank account,or something along those lines,
it could have been even lessthan $17, they get paid almost
nothing for Spotify to get richfrom their incredible creations.
So what you can do is you canlook at the name of the person
whose music you love, you go totheir Patreon, you sign up for
(17:54):
$5 a month, you might get anextra video, or maybe a
reflection on their part, likethey can offer a wide variety of
different quote unquote, perksfor being there. As far as I'm
concerned, my main interest isjust to be like, Hey, I love
what you do. I'm giving you alittle bit of money every month,
it means a lot to me. Yeah, it'sbeen, I think, revolutionary for
a lot of creatives who live nowwhen so many people expect all
(18:16):
this incredible content to justappear for free for them, which
it often does.
Angela Bryant (18:22):
Yeah, it's a great solution. And I think
there's quite a few other thingsout there now, like, buy me a
coffee or similar things. Yeah,people are having on their
various social media profiles.
So you can just Yeah, buy them acoffee just do something nice
and support people who arecreating all this wonderful art
that we consume.
Eowyn Levene (18:40):
Yeah. And I feel like it's also it's a very
concrete way of kind of wakingpeople up to the meaning of the
arts and creative people. Likewe just take it for granted. We
see it in architecture, we seeit in advertising, like we see
in all these ways where it'sjust presented to us without us
having to consciously engage andrealize there's a human being
(19:01):
behind there with a huge amountof training and all of this work
and all of this, like just coolstuff going on. And it kind of
wakes you up. It's like oh,yeah, there's a human being that
they also deserve to make aliving the way someone who has a
quote unquote job does.
Angela Bryant (19:15):
Absolutely. And I think the other thing that the
pandemic has shown is just howmuch we miss those sort of
creative outlets when theysuddenly all get shut down and
taken away from us. And we haveno theatres, and we have no live
concert. Yeah, anything elsegoing on?
Eowyn Levene (19:29):
I one of the amazing things about living in
New York City is the sheer massof talent that resides here. And
during the pandemic, a lot ofmusicians have just played on
the streets and more than onceI've just stopped with tears
streaming down my face, justmissing it so much. You know,
there's a jazz musician whoplays at the farmers market
(19:49):
where my massage office is andyeah, whenever I can I stop and
listen and give him some money.
And I'm just like, Yeah, whenare we going to be able to just
gather together again, and havethese common experiences that
are just transformative andmoving?
Angela Bryant (20:05):
Yes, I love that.
Or funny and irreverent. Like,whatever the thing is, you know,
but yeah, any Yeah, the wholeany any thought and culture and
so is there anything else thatyou've not mentioned that would
that is sort of part of yourworldview or your personal
values that you've that you'd bewilling to share?
Eowyn Levene (20:26):
Well, I feel like I haven't really talked very
much about the money stuff. AndI'd like to just share that
I've, I've slowly over theyears, realize that handling
your finances, and beingintentional with managing your
money is really a personalpractice. It is something that
you can do to attend to yourselfevery day, like stretching or
(20:48):
drinking enough water or eatingfood that feels good in your
body. Like that act of checkingyour bank balances recording the
things you want to recordlooking ahead for next week or
two and saying, alright, what'scoming up? What do I want? What
do I need to do? How much moneydo I need to reserve to make
sure I'm taking care of things,not putting things on a credit
card, like that process, whileit can sound really prosaic, it
(21:11):
is profound. And it's a way ofdeeply caring for your future
self in just the same way ascaring for your body or your
mental health. So I just reallylike to underline that because
the work itself can I mean, Isuppose it's equivalent to going
to the gym and just sweating anddoing your reps and like just
(21:32):
being over it. But you don'tnecessarily have like the
neurotransmitter rewards thatyou get when you go to the gym.
So once you've made yourself goto the gym, like nobody regrets
a workout, once they've done it,you don't get that same like
visceral hit, when you do likewhen you tend to your finances.
But nonetheless, it's the samekind of practice, like you just
(21:54):
you do the work, once you learnit, and you get good at it and
you create those habits. Doesn'ttake a ton of time. But the
impact on your future self ispretty rad. people even say rod
anymore, I don't know, probablylike the 80s in the 90s. So
Angela Bryant (22:12):
yeah, absolutely me too. And I think I mean, just
thinking about some of thosethings. Some there's so many
new, sort of, especially in theUK, we're getting so many new
bank accounts now or sort ofbanking institutions, which have
really modernizing what you cando and what you can track and
how easily you can categorizeeverything that you're spending.
And I'm sure if they're notalready doing it, it will become
(22:35):
more gamified it will become itwill use a lot of this, you
know, positive reward psychologygoing forwards? Because Yeah,
you can just see how that'sgoing to start happening with
some of the new tech. Yes,
Eowyn Levene (22:46):
yeah, more and more. So although I will just
provide a word of caution, whichThat in itself can be something
that the folks that I work withbecome resistant to as well,
this idea that there's alwaysanother app and always another
tech solution for something inour day to day life. And then
your phone suddenly has 58different apps on it, and you
(23:07):
can't find anything. And thenhow do you use that program
anyway. And now I have to takeit whole course so they can
learn QuickBooks. And so I willsay that if using apps and
software fits for you and yourpersonality and your natural
strengths, awesome, like use itall. But you also can just use a
pen and paper and have a highlyfunctional system or just a
(23:28):
simple spreadsheet. So I willjust say that folks need to find
what fits them best. Althoughone note just on what you're
pointing to is online banking,and the ability to have multiple
different accounts within oneinstitution without paying extra
fees like that is huge. Likejust to be able to like
categorize your pots of money.
It can be one of the ways thatyou motivate yourself over time
(23:49):
as you build up your savings orwhatever you're doing. Yeah.
Angela Bryant (23:56):
Yeah, juicy really is because it's I yeah, I
am one of those people that hasalways you know, love money and
I you know, quite enjoy countingmoney or looking understanding
how and I love spreadsheets. Soyou know, yeah, all good with
that. But yeah, we've all gotthese buried mindset issues or
(24:18):
concerns or worries or thingsthat don't work quite right or
the parts of it that we'rescared of, or definitely we
haven't done before. So it's allgood. Yeah. and unpack
Eowyn Levene (24:26):
Well, and the world that we live on the world
that we live in points towardsnever feeling like you have
enough or you are enough,especially if you're socialized
as a woman. And that just getsmixed in with financial stuff,
this feeling of like needingmore more more or feeling like
you lack capacity or it's justtoo much of a mess. You're never
(24:48):
going to be good about and goodenough and if someone sees your
mess, then they're going to hateyou or judge you whatever
there's Yeah, there's just a lotof around it. previous podcast
guest of mine. kJ Natural, shesaid that Money is charged and
tender. And I take that with me.
I think she summarized it sowell.
Angela Bryant (25:06):
So much judgment on ourselves. And
Eowyn Levene (25:10):
yes, yeah. Well, we tend to judge others in equal
proportion to how much we judgeourselves. So yeah.
Angela Bryant (25:17):
So before we wrap up, do you want to just tell us
something more about youpersonally, your you know, what,
what are things that you enjoydoing? Apart from obviously,
going out to theater and art andmusic? Yeah, where's your
hobbies and pastimes heading?
Eowyn Levene (25:35):
Yeah, so my dear loves at the moment, I will say
that I am someone with a lot ofinterests and a lot of kind of
simmering kind of areas that Imight tend to in a given year
and others not. But persistentloves gardening, I have a 10
foot by 12 foot garden bed inState Park, that's a few blocks
(25:55):
from me. And so I'm carefullygrowing some flowers for the
second year in a row. And thatgives me a lot of joy, and sort
of nurtures that long term dreamof living and working on land.
And I'm also a slow runner andreally love moving my body. And
there's actually for anyone elsewho's like, in middle age and
(26:16):
living in a fat body and wantsto be a runner, there are so
many cool resources out therenot least there's a Facebook
group called fat girl runningand there is a podcast, not your
average runner. And so there'sall these amazing resources. So
like, I don't know, six or sevenyears ago, I decided I wanted to
learn how to run so I love beinga slow runner. And yeah,
(26:38):
spending time with friends,people who I love, and giving
them hugs.
Angela Bryant (26:44):
Oh, one day, one day soon, I'm sure we'll get to
that point. Yeah, that's such afantastic conversation. I'm
really, yeah, I really love whatyou're doing. And it sounds like
it's incredibly needed. And we,our whole entire culture, and
society is so much poorer as asociety, both financially and
(27:05):
emotionally and everything elseif we don't have those artists,
and creatives and makers anddoers in it, and we need to do
everything we can to lift themup and get them thinking about
these things and doingeverything they can to not be
struggling to make ends meet.
Yeah. Do you want to just finishby telling us a bit more about
where people can find you yourservices?
Eowyn Levene (27:29):
Yeah, best place to find me as my website plum
tree money.com. I have a PDFdownload if people are
interested. It's called threesimple steps to improve your
finances even when your money isa mess. And of course the
podcast Creatives Do Money iffolks like listening to podcasts
I am on Instagram, although alittle ambivalently so but I'm
(27:50):
there for all of the genuinelike genuine relationship
building. I'm there for it allof the distraction and the
comparison. It is not so much.
So I'm there sometimes. Andother times I'm not there, I
will say but yeah.
Angela Bryant (28:05):
Amazing. Well, thank you ever so much for
joining us. So Eowyn. And so foreveryone else if you you can
read the show notes from thisepisode. To do that you go to
Angel rated.com/podcast. And ifyou enjoyed this podcast, I'd
love you to subscribe to theshow. And leave a review on your
favorite podcast platform. Anddon't forget to share this
(28:25):
episode with your onlinebusiness friends especially all
those creatives and artists andmakers out there. The Angel
Rated Show is brought to you byAngel Rated the independent
directory and review site forall the products courses and
services used by online businessowners. It's the best place to
find the perfect product for thenext stage of your business or
(28:48):
personal growth. Learn more andlist your business free of
charge at Angel rated.com
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