May 8, 2025 • 32 mins
GUEST INFO
Rich Hoffman is an executive board member of the Scientific Coalition for UAP Studies (SCU). With decades of experience in UAP research and analysis, Rich has been instrumental in establishing scientific protocols for the investigation of anomalous phenomena. His background spans both technical and organizational leadership roles, making him uniquely positioned to discuss the intersection of scientific methodology and UAP studies. Rich has presented at numerous conferences worldwide and has contributed to several significant SCU research projects and publications.
QUESTIONS
- What are the main themes and focus areas for SCU's upcoming 2025 conference?
- Which speakers and panels should attendees be particularly excited about this year?
- What ongoing research projects will be presenting updates at the conference?
- Can you elaborate on the significant announcements regarding materials analysis from UAP sightings?
LINKS
- Register for SCU's 2025 Conference (June 6-8, Huntsville AL): [https://explorescu.org](https://explorescu.org/)
NOTE: Due to a technical error, the video portion of this episode shows only Rich's side of the conversation, though the audio remains intact for both participants.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:22):
Welcome to the Anomalous Review,the official podcast of the
Scientific Coalition for UAP Studies, or SCU.
My name is Michael Glossin. I'm a philosopher of science and
technology and the host of the show.
Today, I'm joined by Rich Hoffman, an Executive Board
Member of SCU, to discuss our organization's upcoming annual
conference for 2025. It's taking place from June 6th
(00:44):
through the 8th at the Von BraunCenter in downtown Huntsville,
AL. Rich and I dive into the
conference's themes, some featured speakers, and plan
panel discussions which will feature some exciting updates on
ongoing SCU research projects, including at least one
significant announcement regarding materials analysis
from UAP sightings that you won't want to miss.
(01:06):
Before we begin, though, 2 shortpoints to note.
First, for those interested in attending the conference, you
can register for either in person or virtual attendance at
explorescu.org. The website also provides a
hotel discount link for those planning to attend in person.
Second, there's a slight issue with the video elements of this
(01:27):
episode. Due to a technical glitch, which
was my fault, the video of my side of the conversation wasn't
recorded properly. Thankfully, though, the audio of
the conversation is completely intact.
This just means that if you're watching this on YouTube, while
you'll hear both of us just fine, you will only see Rich's
side of the conversation. My apology for this hiccup.
(01:48):
Thankfully though, Rich is a seasoned pro when it comes to
sitting for a camera and I know you'll find the content of our
discussion well worth your time.So here now is my conversation
with Executive Board member of SCU, Rich Hoffman.
Welcome to the Anomalous review.I have Rich Hoffman with me
today, the Executive Board member of the Scientific
Coalition for UAP Studies to talk about our upcoming
(02:10):
conference, which is June 6th through the 8th at the Von Braun
Center in Huntsville, AL. So, Rich, thanks for thanks for
joining us. Yeah, no problem.
Glad to be on board and talking about the conference.
I'm very excited about it. So how many conferences is this
for SCU now? What number is this?
This is actually the, I believe it's the yes that we've done.
(02:34):
I know, I mean, maybe it's the 6th.
So we had 2019. We had to cancel 2020 with
COVID. So we had 21222324 and 25.
Actually, it's the 6th. Well, congratulations on putting
together 6 pretty major conferences.
That's a big deal. Yeah, it is.
(02:54):
It is a big deal. Short amount of time, you've
gotten an incredible amount of talent with SCU together also
and a a pretty storied location that you're holding it, you
know, NASA being in Huntsville. Yeah, I mean, we were, when we
first had it, we were just outside of the gate to Redstone
Arsenal and the Marshall Space Flight Center, and we were in
(03:18):
the Rocket City Tavern, which the appropriate name for the
city is the Rocket City, right? So you have all this tremendous,
you know, NASA presence and you've got the Army, you've got
Ballistics Missile Defense Agency, you've got the Space and
Missile Defense Agency, and there's all these different
players in the space program andincluding commercial, you know,
(03:41):
and, and stuff like that around.So it's a, it's a very exciting
place to be able to bring peoplewho want to study this phenomena
or get familiar with it. And so we're, again, it's been
very exciting to have it outside.
This year. They'll be moved from the gate
into the downtown Huntsville area at a large Convention
(04:03):
Center, but they've got down there.
And so we're kind of excited about that big transition right
there. Yeah.
That's that marks a kind of period of growth that we're in
or an inflection point of growthrisk you it seems.
Yep. So when you're putting together
the conferences, is there a kindof theme?
I mean, I know that at at some level when you're putting it
together, you think this year these are the topics and these
(04:24):
are the, this is the research that's going on.
How do we kind of clump that together in a way?
What makes this year different? Well, I think that, you know,
looking at past year's themes, we were trying to connect
science and UAP to get study together.
But I think, you know, we we allcame to the conclusion, I think
that ultimately that it's best that you're framing this very
(04:48):
rapidly strong interest into a very foundational study of the
phenomena and to really get downand into the how do you really
want to approach this topic. And that includes everything
from not just putting papers together and having to deal with
databases and various other things to do that.
(05:11):
But it's also there's a lot of technology advancements that
have gone on over the the decades, at least for me being
in it for six decades, but a lotof advanced technologies that we
can now deploy to actual sites to conduct our investigations.
And then the big question is, well, what equipment do you
need? What type of data are you trying
(05:32):
to collect and what kind of tools do you need to have them?
So a lot of the focus here is about developing what a, a
logical structure that we need to do to be able to get what we
want and to get some answers. And so that's where we're
planning to go with this. It seems like kind of an upward
(05:55):
cycle that a lot of sciences have to go through where you
collect data and you do work on it and you have to kind of
reiteratively come back to the question of like, well, how do
we continue studying this? So it seems like this year is
kind of one of those return to foundational questions about how
to do UAP science. Is that right?
That's precisely correct. I mean, when you think about
what I got, I got started in this like, you know, back in the
(06:17):
1960s, right? What kind of tools that I have?
Well, First off, I just had pencil and paper, colored pencil
and paper. And I gave it to somebody and I
had, you know, I would be taking, having them do crude
drawings that I didn't have a, acell phone.
I had to look at my star charts to be able to figure out what I
had. So I'd have one of those with me
(06:38):
and, you know, you had maybe a Geiger counter and an old World
War 2 vintage Geiger counter, and you didn't have a lot of
tools to go and study. Well, you know, technology has
definitely advanced and it continues to advance over these
generations. And they're always adding new
things, you know, all the time. And it's getting to the point
(06:59):
where it's like, well, you know,if you think about like the
gazillions of photos that are inthe visible range of the
spectrum that we see all the time, right.
Cameras, by the way, have improved.
OK, so let's talk about that. You know, they've improved
dramatically over the and the resolution has gotten much, much
(07:19):
better. But again, let's we're always
seeing these objects in the visible spectrum.
Well, what do they look like in the other parts of the
electromagnetic spectrum? Like what, you know, we're
starting to see now with those like, you know, military things
where they're using infrared, you know, near infrared, mid
(07:40):
wave infrared or you know, a long range infrared, but they're
start, we're starting to see nowwhat these objects look like in
the infrared area. Well, what about, you know, the
other parts of the spectrum? And can we deduce anything
further by having those kinds ofthings and tools available?
In addition to that, you know, you have everything from, you
(08:01):
know, you, you typically here ona submarine like things like
sonar, but you know, you have radar.
Well, you also have now Lidar, which is at our, you know, we
can, we can use to be able to see what we can determine even
using Lidar technologies. So, and then, you know, you've
also got tools like drones that you can swim send up.
(08:23):
I used a drone over on a case investigation in about an hour
away from here for about two or three years.
And the idea is that we were looking at a phenomena that was
like a, an orb, if you would, that's called earth light
phenomena. And we were trying to see if we
could get the the drones to be able to go over and get close to
(08:43):
it. So drone technologies have
improved and you so we would have been able to enable that.
And you're talking about technology change that's
happening daily, you know, and then also the cost of tools are,
you know, getting down to the port where you can actually
afford it now. And so it's, it's a very
(09:05):
exciting time for the technological aspects that we
can apply to sightings. That's a very good point.
So the return to foundations is also about like the introduction
of all these new tools and capabilities that we didn't have
when even when you started doingthis 60 years ago there may
have. Only had.
Film Cam or something and now you've got gigapixel, you know
digital cameras and a drone thatyou have or. 200 bucks, you
(09:28):
know, and, and Michael, let's not forget the fact that we're
getting in, you know, AI tools for having, using and deploying
AI to be able to go after the data to help give us some
context that we might have missed.
So the AI stuff that's that's going on right now and the the
big progress on that is being used now to be able to look and
(09:52):
see if we can't look at maybe like blurry photos of objects or
videos or and then to put them into focus using the AI tool.
So it's being used in the graphics world as well and image
analysis, if you would. So it's it again, these are the
things that we want to talk about.
(10:13):
So it sounds like a lot of this work is pretty sophisticated.
Is the conference only for, or only accessible to people who
have a background in science? Oh, no.
I mean, anybody that wants to come is more than welcome to
come. We, we've had over the years a
great number of people who are, you know, relatively new.
They're not even maybe in STEM kind of programs or something
(10:35):
like that, are STEM trained if you would.
But they come because they want to hear number one and they,
they wouldn't feel confident that, that we're doing something
legitimately to be able to get answers for, for decades we've
had no answers. You know, if you look at the,
even the MUFON database I was in, I'm still in MUFON, a
(10:56):
lifetime member, but I'm not actively engaged in, in their
investigations like I was. But at the time when I left,
they had close to 80,000 cases. But they're mostly of like, you
know, mistaken objects in the sky, lens flares.
Occasionally you'll have a good video.
(11:17):
But again, it they were anecdotal, they were not
instrumented studies. So now what we've got is we've
got those instrumented studies that we can go and we can work
with or, or even conduct to be able to get scientists who want
to look at data and analyze it. We can get them that.
Well, that's very exciting to the general public who is now
(11:39):
also hearing about the fact that, for example, we see that,
you know, the consistency and shapes have changed.
Like there was an introduction of all these pyramid or
triangular shaped objects or something of that.
And they learn from what we're saying because we're also
educating them at this this session.
(11:59):
Yeah. And so we get a lot of interest
from a lot of people that don't have that background, but we
also get a lot of people who have scientific backgrounds that
answer some, ask some incrediblequestions.
Yeah. I mean, if you look at the
speaker list, it's a lot of career scientists and
researchers that who are doing work in academia.
(12:20):
They don't. This isn't primarily their
thing. Yeah.
Academia and. And it's like educating, right?
So you'll hear like Kevin Knuth will be talking about the Usos
and stuff like that. Extremely.
He's just an incredible presenter that puts it at a
level where even the basic people that maybe are new into
(12:43):
the UFO phenomena or UAP phenomena get an understanding
of what he's trying to say. So it's it's really, really
good. You do not have to have a, a
serious background in the sciences to be able to, to
really get something out of the conference.
So there's a lot of different presentations and we don't have
time to talk about all of them. But there's one that really
stands out to me which is the SCU project panel.
(13:04):
So this is a a group of SCU members who are going through
the five main research projects that SU is currently involved
in. Can you just kind of walk us
through what those projects are and what the the goals of them
are? Sure.
Well, one of them we we've kind of already talked about a little
bit, but it's the database wherewe've got an ongoing effort to
(13:25):
be able to establish a good solid database to work from.
The problem we've had over the years with any kind of like
study is that there's a lot of organizations that have their
own siloed pieces of data, right?
And you don't have somebody thatbrings it together to help you
to look at all of the data and to actually see if there's
(13:47):
something that we're missing, right?
And so part of it is being able to get people to cooperate on
giving U.S. data, putting it into a, a data repository.
And then once you do get that into that, you have to do a
little bit of what they call data cleansing, if you would,
and data data structuring, if you would, on the kind of data
(14:08):
that you're trying to be able topull from.
But I mean, things like, for example, somebody puts the wrong
county that they were residing in when they saw their sighting,
OK, or there's some other aspects that are incorrect in
the data that was brought together.
So we do the like like the leg work of getting that cleaned up
so that when you do go and applya set of criteria to the data of
(14:34):
what what you're looking for, that you can actually then get
that return and give you some, you know, data that can become
now information and then, you know, moving it up into even
knowledge as a result of the what you've been able to come up
with. And so data crunching is very,
(14:55):
very critical. The database struck of the team
we've got is applying that and with the long term goal that
that they would be able to applythings like machine learning or
or AI capabilities to it, which will help us immensely.
Sure. And, and maybe even that when
you're trying to combine database bases, they don't all
ask the exact same questions. And so you're having to go
(15:19):
through and sometimes manually line those up and, and figure
out what data points are even there.
Fascinating. So SCU is building a, an
enormous database. So another one of the the
projects is the USO project. You said Kevin Knuth is.
Yeah, Kev. Yeah, Kevin's going to be
speaking about US OS and I thinkand it's going to be I'm we're
looking, I'm looking forward to hearing what he has to say.
(15:41):
But ultimately it's a situation where we have a team that's been
working together to look at like, can we characterize
anything about the US OS that that have been reported?
By the way, we also call them UAP because you know, the
phenomena is transmedium, right?But we we do recognize that
people like to hang on to the USOS and it's helpful for us to be
(16:05):
able to separate out all we're talking about the water objects
you. Know there may be something,
there may be different characteristic differences about
the submerged objects made, the same objects that operate in
very different ways when there'ssubmerged.
So maybe it's a helpful distinction, yeah.
Yes. And so ultimately it's about
trying to get an understanding of where do these things tend to
(16:26):
occur, where they most reported.We obviously know right now that
it seems like, you know, the objects are dropping into the
ocean or on the ocean along the East Coast as well as the West
Coast of the United States. But then the question, you know,
is also, I mean, Puerto Rico is seems to have activity in the
water as well. The Russians, you know, early on
(16:50):
did had a about 15,000 cases of underwater objects that that
they had collected. Where were those, you know?
And so are there any parts of the ocean that are of interest?
That's one aspect of this. Then the other aspect of this
is, is there any kind of shapes that stand out about those
(17:12):
objects that go into the water? In other words, is it is the
does the triangle going into thewater or is it just the disc
shaped objects? So if we can or we can pull
together, the more we can learn,we'll be able to help then give
us some sort of direction about those types of craft.
Fascinating set of questions. So there's now an also an
(17:33):
origins project that SU is doing.
Tell me a little bit about that in the state of it.
Yeah. So ultimately, you know, well,
let me back up for a second. Just one SEC that we've, we've
had one that looked at intent, which was the nuclear side that
was looking at all the nuclear cases that have evolved and
(17:54):
trying to see if these things have like some sort of tendency
to go to nuclear sites. And let's confirm that, right?
And we did that study over a period of like from 1945 up to
1975 or whatever like that. And we've now published, I
believe three papers. And I think we're even working
(18:16):
on 1/4 study that's related to that.
But the origins is also to try to look at, you know, what are
all the plausible hypotheses foror where these objects might be
coming from, and then seeing if you can match that up to their
behavior. For example, you know, if the
(18:37):
objects have a tendency to be toward water, the obvious
question then comes into play, are they using this as a base of
operations? You're also potentially looking
at, you know, cases that are reported with beings that have
(18:57):
look like or resemble us in a sense that they're humanoid,
right? So they stand on 2 legs or they
got, you know, two eyes, they got ears.
They have two arms and hands andvery everything that looks like
they're bipedal just like us. And we're saying like, well, as
(19:18):
a potentially like that they arefrom the future or from the past
or what I mean, can we deduce that?
What's the plausibility of them being ET and flying from space
to here? Well, then you could look at it
and say, well, wait a minute. If you take a look and Kevin
Knuth did an excellent job of presenting this a couple years
(19:41):
ago. But you look at that in the
context of the speeds that have been reported, like for example,
the Nimitz case, the the Bethuram case.
That was back in the early days where you actually had radar
dinner. If you looked at those data
points in terms of speed, you can relatively find that if
they're going Mach 50 and above,then they're they're considered
(20:03):
at the point where they're like almost like interstellar.
And then you have to question, well, whether or not, you know,
you can traverse these kind of distances.
Are they coming from somewhere off planet?
And then you can find cases out there, for example, like the
Tehran case in 1976. Where there was a deep space
satellite that actually tracked an object that was coming from
(20:25):
space that went down to Tehran. And so, OK, well, that tells you
that they're in space as well, right?
Could they, you know, hypothetically, could they use
the back of the moon? You know what I mean?
We don't know again. So where are the origins of
these things most likely? Can we deduce those?
(20:46):
Look at those hypotheses, and atsome point it would be nice if
we could actually eliminate someof them as being not plausible.
So then you can get to the pointwhere you can make a hypothesis
and actually try to confirm it, right?
That's what seems to distinguishwhat SU is doing from like pure
speculation, because you're trying to 1st just identify what
is the space of possibilities for explaining these things and
(21:09):
how can we pare that space down and eliminate things, which is a
very different project from justwildly speculating.
Maybe they come from underground.
Whatever it is, yeah. Oh, we've, we've had like, you
know, decades of speculation because we've had no data to
work with, you know, and so ultimately it's about how do we
get the data to be able to confirm or reject the hypothesis
(21:31):
or even, you know, maybe there'smultiple hypothesis involved.
And So what do we need to do to be able to to get closer to
coming up with an origin point for these objects?
Yeah. So tell me about the the GR
project. What does that stand for and
what is SU doing with that? Well, looking at, you know, the,
the laws of physics, general relativity and being able to
(21:54):
actually go and look at these objects in that context to see
if we can determine anything that helps to match this.
And it's, it's an exciting project about looking at again,
you know, applying the theory ofrelativity to these objects to
see what we can learn. And Gary Stevenson does an
(22:15):
excellent job of presenting that.
And I don't want to steal his Thunder.
But anyway, I'm, I'm looking forward to what he has to say
again, of what they've come up with.
But it's like, you know, we, we,we work within the laws of
physics. But guess what?
Some of these objects might be working on different principles
of those laws of physics, and weought to know about them, right?
(22:37):
There's a great interview with Richard Fine where he talks
about studying physics as being like watching people play chess
and thinking that you understandthe rules for a while until you
see somebody castle or somethingand you realize, oh, that's not
really a violation of the rules.They're just rules that we
didn't know about. So it seems like that's kind of
analogous to what we're doing when we study UAP.
(22:59):
Like we think we have pretty good models of physics, but then
we can counter things that seem to kind of violate those models.
But it doesn't mean that they'rereally violating nature, but
that we're understanding nature better when we see kind of limit
cases or things that do really weird things.
Yeah, like, you know, I liken itto the fact that, you know, when
(23:21):
you, when you think about the Tic Tac dropping from 20,000
feet and stopping above the water in point 7/8 of a second,
not even, not even before you say that the, the one, it's
already dropped 20,000 feet and stopped, right.
So you're, you're going in and saying like, well, that's
insane. And how is that doing that in
(23:42):
our atmosphere? Not creating a Sonic boom, not
in any kind of like conventionalshape that would support it, No
propulsion system, no kinetic energy release, no, apparently
not heating up in the atmosphereand everything else we know.
You know, if you look at the meteor at at night, it's coming
in at about that speed or even, you know, whatever, and it's
(24:06):
leaving a trail. You don't see anything like
that. So how does it navigate and do
that and not break up into smallpieces from the sheer inertia
and the and, and you're going like, well, that's working on
some other level. Did it negate its mass?
Did it, did it, you know, if somehow, you know, this is a
(24:28):
space-time kind of phenomena that it's dealing with where it
can manipulate space-time and dothat, how does it do it?
And so if we can find indications of how they're
potentially doing that, think ofwhat we would learn.
I mean, it's remarkable. And to be a Tic Tac shape, which
is just, you know, I mean, how does that make any sense?
(24:51):
Yeah. So aerodynamically or whatever
like what is the? Yeah, exactly.
So the last project on the list is for this panel is drones.
What is SCU doing with drones? And I know reconnaissance and
investigations is part of it, but there are there other parts
too. So what we found out from
(25:11):
looking at drones, let's put it this way, the public seems to be
confused about a UF OS and drones, OK, So many there.
There's misreporting of drones as being UFO as well.
And it's there are just so many things up in the air that quite
frankly, a lot of people misidentify these things.
(25:31):
And drones is one of them. But more importantly, what we're
finding out, and this was looking at the FAA drone
reporting database, OK? We're finding out that some of
the objects that are being reported in that database look
like, smell like and taste like UFOs.
(25:56):
So what we're doing is we're, you know, Ralph Howard and the
team that they've got are going through and actually looking at
those types of things to see if they can come up with some sort
of a better understanding of maybe that these things are UFOs
are being called drones. And they're in that database
(26:17):
much like we also do, by the way, with the Fireball database,
where people report fireballs that are the American Meteor
Society collects, in which theremight also be UFOs, right?
So it sounds like identificationgoes both ways.
There are people who misidentifyUAP as drones and people who
(26:38):
just misidentify drones as UAP. That is correct.
And so the bottom line is that, you know, it's another data
point. It's another way for us to look
at data to see if it makes any sense.
When you have somebody reportingwhat they thought was a drone to
the FAA and the FAA and you listen and you actually see what
they reported and it's far exceeding the capabilities of
(27:02):
anything we call as a drone in terms of speed or whatever like
that, then it's potentially got maybe another explanation and we
ought to know about it, right? It's.
Fascinating. This is great.
So tell me when? So we said the conference is
June 6th through the 8th. Anybody can attend, but you
don't have to be physically there.
You can attend virtually. How do people do that?
(27:22):
How do they attend in either way?
Well, First off, I, I encourage people to go up on our website,
whichisexplorescu.org and there are links up there to, for
example, if you want to see who the speakers are, you can go
you, we have the agenda that's posted up there for the, the
three days basically or 2 1/2 days if you would.
(27:45):
And then also there's a link to register.
You can go up and register. And right now the, the rate for
or just virtual attendance, for example, is $75.
And what does that give you? Well, we have an incredible tool
called Fuva that we use, which allows for a lot of like almost
(28:07):
like you're there. It's a lot of collaboration.
People are sharing all over the place, discussing things.
They have the, the presentationsthat they can view.
And by the way, they can review anybody who attends, including
the virtual people can watch thevideos for up to three months
after the conference and be ableto, you know, go back many, as
(28:33):
many times as they want and watch that presentation.
And that that's also very beneficial to people in the
other time zones. So like let's say over in Europe
where it's maybe like 7 or 8 hours later, it's a horrible
time in the middle of the morning that they're going to be
watching this or something of that nature.
Well, they don't have to do that.
(28:53):
They can watch the the presentations, you know, during
their work hours, right? So we are encouraging people to
sign up to have that access for the next three months.
And also they can still ask questions of people that are in
attendance and have conversations, because what I've
seen is people having conversations and using the tool
(29:14):
to collaborate for a long periodof time afterward.
So again, it's a, it's a great tool. 75 bucks get you that.
And I mean, it's, it's really, really a good deal.
And then you could also be in person if you want.
And even being in person, then you get a chance to bump into
people, collaborate, talk and all that stuff like that.
(29:37):
At the same time, you can go into the tool and you can also
use it at your leisure and to your advantage.
And there's a hotel deal too, right?
There's a hotel rate for the conference.
Yes, we have a hotel rate. We have actually three hotels
around the the Von Braun Center that people can use the the
(29:58):
Hampton Inn, the Embassy Suites,and then there's the Spring Hill
Inn and Suites. It's also there as well that we
got a, we're going to have a number of like happy hours up on
a rooftop bar and stuff like that.
That'll be fun. And there's plenty of
restaurants for people to go to.And then it's convenient for
people to get to it from the airport.
(30:20):
It's like a maybe a 10 minute drive from the airport here in
Huntsville. Man, it sounds like a great
time. Is there anything else you want
to tell us about the SU conference this year before we
wrap up? Nope, I'm, I'm, I, I think it's,
again, I'm very excited and I think I leave it up to people to
look at, you know, the, the agenda and to see what we're
talking about. See the incredible people that
(30:42):
are going to be presenting again, good number of pH DS.
I'm, I'm pleased that Jay Stratton is going to be coming
to talk. He's our keynote.
Jay, if you don't know who he is, Jay was the lead of the UAP
Task Force. I, I believe he also played in
(31:02):
on the OSAP program on the a tipor in those days as well.
And so he's had that long history of working in this
program and it's had a lot of great information that he is
planning to share. And then one other point that
I'll make and that is that Matthew Shadegas from the
(31:26):
University of Albany also has a very important announcement that
he wants to make as well. And this is about the remember
the metal that was that that wasobtained.
It's called arts parts. I believe that metal, they ran
that through. He ran it through extensive more
tests, and he's got some interesting announcements to
(31:48):
make as well. Well, fascinating.
So there's a a surprise element too, and you can't know before
you attend. Rich, thank you so much for
joining us. I look forward to seeing you at
this year's conference and I hope you enjoy your afternoon.
Thank you so much, Michael. Let that be on and talk about
it. The Anomalous Review is a
project of the Scientific Coalition for UAP Studies.
(32:10):
It's hosted and produced by ME Michael Blossom and edited by
Kelly Michelle. Our theme song was written and
performed by Telma Chrisanti. Communication and PR work is by
Preston Dykes. Our advisory team includes
Jennifer Roach, Robert Powell, Richard Hoffman, Joshua Pearson
and Larry Hancock. To find out more about SCU,
check out Explorer scu.org.
Welcome to the Anomalous Review,the official podcast of the
Scientific Coalition for UAP Studies, or SCU.
My name is Michael Glossin. I'm a philosopher of science and
technology and the host of the show.
Today, I'm joined by Rich Hoffman, an Executive Board
Member of SCU, to discuss our organization's upcoming annual
conference for 2025. It's taking place from June 6th
(00:44):
through the 8th at the Von BraunCenter in downtown Huntsville,
AL. Rich and I dive into the
conference's themes, some featured speakers, and plan
panel discussions which will feature some exciting updates on
ongoing SCU research projects, including at least one
significant announcement regarding materials analysis
from UAP sightings that you won't want to miss.
(01:06):
Before we begin, though, 2 shortpoints to note.
First, for those interested in attending the conference, you
can register for either in person or virtual attendance at
explorescu.org. The website also provides a
hotel discount link for those planning to attend in person.
Second, there's a slight issue with the video elements of this
(01:27):
episode. Due to a technical glitch, which
was my fault, the video of my side of the conversation wasn't
recorded properly. Thankfully, though, the audio of
the conversation is completely intact.
This just means that if you're watching this on YouTube, while
you'll hear both of us just fine, you will only see Rich's
side of the conversation. My apology for this hiccup.
(01:48):
Thankfully though, Rich is a seasoned pro when it comes to
sitting for a camera and I know you'll find the content of our
discussion well worth your time.So here now is my conversation
with Executive Board member of SCU, Rich Hoffman.
Welcome to the Anomalous review.I have Rich Hoffman with me
today, the Executive Board member of the Scientific
Coalition for UAP Studies to talk about our upcoming
(02:10):
conference, which is June 6th through the 8th at the Von Braun
Center in Huntsville, AL. So, Rich, thanks for thanks for
joining us. Yeah, no problem.
Glad to be on board and talking about the conference.
I'm very excited about it. So how many conferences is this
for SCU now? What number is this?
This is actually the, I believe it's the yes that we've done.
(02:34):
I know, I mean, maybe it's the 6th.
So we had 2019. We had to cancel 2020 with
COVID. So we had 21222324 and 25.
Actually, it's the 6th. Well, congratulations on putting
together 6 pretty major conferences.
That's a big deal. Yeah, it is.
(02:54):
It is a big deal. Short amount of time, you've
gotten an incredible amount of talent with SCU together also
and a a pretty storied location that you're holding it, you
know, NASA being in Huntsville. Yeah, I mean, we were, when we
first had it, we were just outside of the gate to Redstone
Arsenal and the Marshall Space Flight Center, and we were in
(03:18):
the Rocket City Tavern, which the appropriate name for the
city is the Rocket City, right? So you have all this tremendous,
you know, NASA presence and you've got the Army, you've got
Ballistics Missile Defense Agency, you've got the Space and
Missile Defense Agency, and there's all these different
players in the space program andincluding commercial, you know,
(03:41):
and, and stuff like that around.So it's a, it's a very exciting
place to be able to bring peoplewho want to study this phenomena
or get familiar with it. And so we're, again, it's been
very exciting to have it outside.
This year. They'll be moved from the gate
into the downtown Huntsville area at a large Convention
(04:03):
Center, but they've got down there.
And so we're kind of excited about that big transition right
there. Yeah.
That's that marks a kind of period of growth that we're in
or an inflection point of growthrisk you it seems.
Yep. So when you're putting together
the conferences, is there a kindof theme?
I mean, I know that at at some level when you're putting it
together, you think this year these are the topics and these
(04:24):
are the, this is the research that's going on.
How do we kind of clump that together in a way?
What makes this year different? Well, I think that, you know,
looking at past year's themes, we were trying to connect
science and UAP to get study together.
But I think, you know, we we allcame to the conclusion, I think
that ultimately that it's best that you're framing this very
(04:48):
rapidly strong interest into a very foundational study of the
phenomena and to really get downand into the how do you really
want to approach this topic. And that includes everything
from not just putting papers together and having to deal with
databases and various other things to do that.
(05:11):
But it's also there's a lot of technology advancements that
have gone on over the the decades, at least for me being
in it for six decades, but a lotof advanced technologies that we
can now deploy to actual sites to conduct our investigations.
And then the big question is, well, what equipment do you
need? What type of data are you trying
(05:32):
to collect and what kind of tools do you need to have them?
So a lot of the focus here is about developing what a, a
logical structure that we need to do to be able to get what we
want and to get some answers. And so that's where we're
planning to go with this. It seems like kind of an upward
(05:55):
cycle that a lot of sciences have to go through where you
collect data and you do work on it and you have to kind of
reiteratively come back to the question of like, well, how do
we continue studying this? So it seems like this year is
kind of one of those return to foundational questions about how
to do UAP science. Is that right?
That's precisely correct. I mean, when you think about
what I got, I got started in this like, you know, back in the
(06:17):
1960s, right? What kind of tools that I have?
Well, First off, I just had pencil and paper, colored pencil
and paper. And I gave it to somebody and I
had, you know, I would be taking, having them do crude
drawings that I didn't have a, acell phone.
I had to look at my star charts to be able to figure out what I
had. So I'd have one of those with me
(06:38):
and, you know, you had maybe a Geiger counter and an old World
War 2 vintage Geiger counter, and you didn't have a lot of
tools to go and study. Well, you know, technology has
definitely advanced and it continues to advance over these
generations. And they're always adding new
things, you know, all the time. And it's getting to the point
(06:59):
where it's like, well, you know,if you think about like the
gazillions of photos that are inthe visible range of the
spectrum that we see all the time, right.
Cameras, by the way, have improved.
OK, so let's talk about that. You know, they've improved
dramatically over the and the resolution has gotten much, much
(07:19):
better. But again, let's we're always
seeing these objects in the visible spectrum.
Well, what do they look like in the other parts of the
electromagnetic spectrum? Like what, you know, we're
starting to see now with those like, you know, military things
where they're using infrared, you know, near infrared, mid
(07:40):
wave infrared or you know, a long range infrared, but they're
start, we're starting to see nowwhat these objects look like in
the infrared area. Well, what about, you know, the
other parts of the spectrum? And can we deduce anything
further by having those kinds ofthings and tools available?
In addition to that, you know, you have everything from, you
(08:01):
know, you, you typically here ona submarine like things like
sonar, but you know, you have radar.
Well, you also have now Lidar, which is at our, you know, we
can, we can use to be able to see what we can determine even
using Lidar technologies. So, and then, you know, you've
also got tools like drones that you can swim send up.
(08:23):
I used a drone over on a case investigation in about an hour
away from here for about two or three years.
And the idea is that we were looking at a phenomena that was
like a, an orb, if you would, that's called earth light
phenomena. And we were trying to see if we
could get the the drones to be able to go over and get close to
(08:43):
it. So drone technologies have
improved and you so we would have been able to enable that.
And you're talking about technology change that's
happening daily, you know, and then also the cost of tools are,
you know, getting down to the port where you can actually
afford it now. And so it's, it's a very
(09:05):
exciting time for the technological aspects that we
can apply to sightings. That's a very good point.
So the return to foundations is also about like the introduction
of all these new tools and capabilities that we didn't have
when even when you started doingthis 60 years ago there may
have. Only had.
Film Cam or something and now you've got gigapixel, you know
digital cameras and a drone thatyou have or. 200 bucks, you
(09:28):
know, and, and Michael, let's not forget the fact that we're
getting in, you know, AI tools for having, using and deploying
AI to be able to go after the data to help give us some
context that we might have missed.
So the AI stuff that's that's going on right now and the the
big progress on that is being used now to be able to look and
(09:52):
see if we can't look at maybe like blurry photos of objects or
videos or and then to put them into focus using the AI tool.
So it's being used in the graphics world as well and image
analysis, if you would. So it's it again, these are the
things that we want to talk about.
(10:13):
So it sounds like a lot of this work is pretty sophisticated.
Is the conference only for, or only accessible to people who
have a background in science? Oh, no.
I mean, anybody that wants to come is more than welcome to
come. We, we've had over the years a
great number of people who are, you know, relatively new.
They're not even maybe in STEM kind of programs or something
(10:35):
like that, are STEM trained if you would.
But they come because they want to hear number one and they,
they wouldn't feel confident that, that we're doing something
legitimately to be able to get answers for, for decades we've
had no answers. You know, if you look at the,
even the MUFON database I was in, I'm still in MUFON, a
(10:56):
lifetime member, but I'm not actively engaged in, in their
investigations like I was. But at the time when I left,
they had close to 80,000 cases. But they're mostly of like, you
know, mistaken objects in the sky, lens flares.
Occasionally you'll have a good video.
(11:17):
But again, it they were anecdotal, they were not
instrumented studies. So now what we've got is we've
got those instrumented studies that we can go and we can work
with or, or even conduct to be able to get scientists who want
to look at data and analyze it. We can get them that.
Well, that's very exciting to the general public who is now
(11:39):
also hearing about the fact that, for example, we see that,
you know, the consistency and shapes have changed.
Like there was an introduction of all these pyramid or
triangular shaped objects or something of that.
And they learn from what we're saying because we're also
educating them at this this session.
(11:59):
Yeah. And so we get a lot of interest
from a lot of people that don't have that background, but we
also get a lot of people who have scientific backgrounds that
answer some, ask some incrediblequestions.
Yeah. I mean, if you look at the
speaker list, it's a lot of career scientists and
researchers that who are doing work in academia.
(12:20):
They don't. This isn't primarily their
thing. Yeah.
Academia and. And it's like educating, right?
So you'll hear like Kevin Knuth will be talking about the Usos
and stuff like that. Extremely.
He's just an incredible presenter that puts it at a
level where even the basic people that maybe are new into
(12:43):
the UFO phenomena or UAP phenomena get an understanding
of what he's trying to say. So it's it's really, really
good. You do not have to have a, a
serious background in the sciences to be able to, to
really get something out of the conference.
So there's a lot of different presentations and we don't have
time to talk about all of them. But there's one that really
stands out to me which is the SCU project panel.
(13:04):
So this is a a group of SCU members who are going through
the five main research projects that SU is currently involved
in. Can you just kind of walk us
through what those projects are and what the the goals of them
are? Sure.
Well, one of them we we've kind of already talked about a little
bit, but it's the database wherewe've got an ongoing effort to
(13:25):
be able to establish a good solid database to work from.
The problem we've had over the years with any kind of like
study is that there's a lot of organizations that have their
own siloed pieces of data, right?
And you don't have somebody thatbrings it together to help you
to look at all of the data and to actually see if there's
(13:47):
something that we're missing, right?
And so part of it is being able to get people to cooperate on
giving U.S. data, putting it into a, a data repository.
And then once you do get that into that, you have to do a
little bit of what they call data cleansing, if you would,
and data data structuring, if you would, on the kind of data
(14:08):
that you're trying to be able topull from.
But I mean, things like, for example, somebody puts the wrong
county that they were residing in when they saw their sighting,
OK, or there's some other aspects that are incorrect in
the data that was brought together.
So we do the like like the leg work of getting that cleaned up
so that when you do go and applya set of criteria to the data of
(14:34):
what what you're looking for, that you can actually then get
that return and give you some, you know, data that can become
now information and then, you know, moving it up into even
knowledge as a result of the what you've been able to come up
with. And so data crunching is very,
(14:55):
very critical. The database struck of the team
we've got is applying that and with the long term goal that
that they would be able to applythings like machine learning or
or AI capabilities to it, which will help us immensely.
Sure. And, and maybe even that when
you're trying to combine database bases, they don't all
ask the exact same questions. And so you're having to go
(15:19):
through and sometimes manually line those up and, and figure
out what data points are even there.
Fascinating. So SCU is building a, an
enormous database. So another one of the the
projects is the USO project. You said Kevin Knuth is.
Yeah, Kev. Yeah, Kevin's going to be
speaking about US OS and I thinkand it's going to be I'm we're
looking, I'm looking forward to hearing what he has to say.
(15:41):
But ultimately it's a situation where we have a team that's been
working together to look at like, can we characterize
anything about the US OS that that have been reported?
By the way, we also call them UAP because you know, the
phenomena is transmedium, right?But we we do recognize that
people like to hang on to the USOS and it's helpful for us to be
(16:05):
able to separate out all we're talking about the water objects
you. Know there may be something,
there may be different characteristic differences about
the submerged objects made, the same objects that operate in
very different ways when there'ssubmerged.
So maybe it's a helpful distinction, yeah.
Yes. And so ultimately it's about
trying to get an understanding of where do these things tend to
(16:26):
occur, where they most reported.We obviously know right now that
it seems like, you know, the objects are dropping into the
ocean or on the ocean along the East Coast as well as the West
Coast of the United States. But then the question, you know,
is also, I mean, Puerto Rico is seems to have activity in the
water as well. The Russians, you know, early on
(16:50):
did had a about 15,000 cases of underwater objects that that
they had collected. Where were those, you know?
And so are there any parts of the ocean that are of interest?
That's one aspect of this. Then the other aspect of this
is, is there any kind of shapes that stand out about those
(17:12):
objects that go into the water? In other words, is it is the
does the triangle going into thewater or is it just the disc
shaped objects? So if we can or we can pull
together, the more we can learn,we'll be able to help then give
us some sort of direction about those types of craft.
Fascinating set of questions. So there's now an also an
(17:33):
origins project that SU is doing.
Tell me a little bit about that in the state of it.
Yeah. So ultimately, you know, well,
let me back up for a second. Just one SEC that we've, we've
had one that looked at intent, which was the nuclear side that
was looking at all the nuclear cases that have evolved and
(17:54):
trying to see if these things have like some sort of tendency
to go to nuclear sites. And let's confirm that, right?
And we did that study over a period of like from 1945 up to
1975 or whatever like that. And we've now published, I
believe three papers. And I think we're even working
(18:16):
on 1/4 study that's related to that.
But the origins is also to try to look at, you know, what are
all the plausible hypotheses foror where these objects might be
coming from, and then seeing if you can match that up to their
behavior. For example, you know, if the
(18:37):
objects have a tendency to be toward water, the obvious
question then comes into play, are they using this as a base of
operations? You're also potentially looking
at, you know, cases that are reported with beings that have
(18:57):
look like or resemble us in a sense that they're humanoid,
right? So they stand on 2 legs or they
got, you know, two eyes, they got ears.
They have two arms and hands andvery everything that looks like
they're bipedal just like us. And we're saying like, well, as
(19:18):
a potentially like that they arefrom the future or from the past
or what I mean, can we deduce that?
What's the plausibility of them being ET and flying from space
to here? Well, then you could look at it
and say, well, wait a minute. If you take a look and Kevin
Knuth did an excellent job of presenting this a couple years
(19:41):
ago. But you look at that in the
context of the speeds that have been reported, like for example,
the Nimitz case, the the Bethuram case.
That was back in the early days where you actually had radar
dinner. If you looked at those data
points in terms of speed, you can relatively find that if
they're going Mach 50 and above,then they're they're considered
(20:03):
at the point where they're like almost like interstellar.
And then you have to question, well, whether or not, you know,
you can traverse these kind of distances.
Are they coming from somewhere off planet?
And then you can find cases out there, for example, like the
Tehran case in 1976. Where there was a deep space
satellite that actually tracked an object that was coming from
(20:25):
space that went down to Tehran. And so, OK, well, that tells you
that they're in space as well, right?
Could they, you know, hypothetically, could they use
the back of the moon? You know what I mean?
We don't know again. So where are the origins of
these things most likely? Can we deduce those?
(20:46):
Look at those hypotheses, and atsome point it would be nice if
we could actually eliminate someof them as being not plausible.
So then you can get to the pointwhere you can make a hypothesis
and actually try to confirm it, right?
That's what seems to distinguishwhat SU is doing from like pure
speculation, because you're trying to 1st just identify what
is the space of possibilities for explaining these things and
(21:09):
how can we pare that space down and eliminate things, which is a
very different project from justwildly speculating.
Maybe they come from underground.
Whatever it is, yeah. Oh, we've, we've had like, you
know, decades of speculation because we've had no data to
work with, you know, and so ultimately it's about how do we
get the data to be able to confirm or reject the hypothesis
(21:31):
or even, you know, maybe there'smultiple hypothesis involved.
And So what do we need to do to be able to to get closer to
coming up with an origin point for these objects?
Yeah. So tell me about the the GR
project. What does that stand for and
what is SU doing with that? Well, looking at, you know, the,
the laws of physics, general relativity and being able to
(21:54):
actually go and look at these objects in that context to see
if we can determine anything that helps to match this.
And it's, it's an exciting project about looking at again,
you know, applying the theory ofrelativity to these objects to
see what we can learn. And Gary Stevenson does an
(22:15):
excellent job of presenting that.
And I don't want to steal his Thunder.
But anyway, I'm, I'm looking forward to what he has to say
again, of what they've come up with.
But it's like, you know, we, we,we work within the laws of
physics. But guess what?
Some of these objects might be working on different principles
of those laws of physics, and weought to know about them, right?
(22:37):
There's a great interview with Richard Fine where he talks
about studying physics as being like watching people play chess
and thinking that you understandthe rules for a while until you
see somebody castle or somethingand you realize, oh, that's not
really a violation of the rules.They're just rules that we
didn't know about. So it seems like that's kind of
analogous to what we're doing when we study UAP.
(22:59):
Like we think we have pretty good models of physics, but then
we can counter things that seem to kind of violate those models.
But it doesn't mean that they'rereally violating nature, but
that we're understanding nature better when we see kind of limit
cases or things that do really weird things.
Yeah, like, you know, I liken itto the fact that, you know, when
(23:21):
you, when you think about the Tic Tac dropping from 20,000
feet and stopping above the water in point 7/8 of a second,
not even, not even before you say that the, the one, it's
already dropped 20,000 feet and stopped, right.
So you're, you're going in and saying like, well, that's
insane. And how is that doing that in
(23:42):
our atmosphere? Not creating a Sonic boom, not
in any kind of like conventionalshape that would support it, No
propulsion system, no kinetic energy release, no, apparently
not heating up in the atmosphereand everything else we know.
You know, if you look at the meteor at at night, it's coming
in at about that speed or even, you know, whatever, and it's
(24:06):
leaving a trail. You don't see anything like
that. So how does it navigate and do
that and not break up into smallpieces from the sheer inertia
and the and, and you're going like, well, that's working on
some other level. Did it negate its mass?
Did it, did it, you know, if somehow, you know, this is a
(24:28):
space-time kind of phenomena that it's dealing with where it
can manipulate space-time and dothat, how does it do it?
And so if we can find indications of how they're
potentially doing that, think ofwhat we would learn.
I mean, it's remarkable. And to be a Tic Tac shape, which
is just, you know, I mean, how does that make any sense?
(24:51):
Yeah. So aerodynamically or whatever
like what is the? Yeah, exactly.
So the last project on the list is for this panel is drones.
What is SCU doing with drones? And I know reconnaissance and
investigations is part of it, but there are there other parts
too. So what we found out from
(25:11):
looking at drones, let's put it this way, the public seems to be
confused about a UF OS and drones, OK, So many there.
There's misreporting of drones as being UFO as well.
And it's there are just so many things up in the air that quite
frankly, a lot of people misidentify these things.
(25:31):
And drones is one of them. But more importantly, what we're
finding out, and this was looking at the FAA drone
reporting database, OK? We're finding out that some of
the objects that are being reported in that database look
like, smell like and taste like UFOs.
(25:56):
So what we're doing is we're, you know, Ralph Howard and the
team that they've got are going through and actually looking at
those types of things to see if they can come up with some sort
of a better understanding of maybe that these things are UFOs
are being called drones. And they're in that database
(26:17):
much like we also do, by the way, with the Fireball database,
where people report fireballs that are the American Meteor
Society collects, in which theremight also be UFOs, right?
So it sounds like identificationgoes both ways.
There are people who misidentifyUAP as drones and people who
(26:38):
just misidentify drones as UAP. That is correct.
And so the bottom line is that, you know, it's another data
point. It's another way for us to look
at data to see if it makes any sense.
When you have somebody reportingwhat they thought was a drone to
the FAA and the FAA and you listen and you actually see what
they reported and it's far exceeding the capabilities of
(27:02):
anything we call as a drone in terms of speed or whatever like
that, then it's potentially got maybe another explanation and we
ought to know about it, right? It's.
Fascinating. This is great.
So tell me when? So we said the conference is
June 6th through the 8th. Anybody can attend, but you
don't have to be physically there.
You can attend virtually. How do people do that?
(27:22):
How do they attend in either way?
Well, First off, I, I encourage people to go up on our website,
whichisexplorescu.org and there are links up there to, for
example, if you want to see who the speakers are, you can go
you, we have the agenda that's posted up there for the, the
three days basically or 2 1/2 days if you would.
(27:45):
And then also there's a link to register.
You can go up and register. And right now the, the rate for
or just virtual attendance, for example, is $75.
And what does that give you? Well, we have an incredible tool
called Fuva that we use, which allows for a lot of like almost
(28:07):
like you're there. It's a lot of collaboration.
People are sharing all over the place, discussing things.
They have the, the presentationsthat they can view.
And by the way, they can review anybody who attends, including
the virtual people can watch thevideos for up to three months
after the conference and be ableto, you know, go back many, as
(28:33):
many times as they want and watch that presentation.
And that that's also very beneficial to people in the
other time zones. So like let's say over in Europe
where it's maybe like 7 or 8 hours later, it's a horrible
time in the middle of the morning that they're going to be
watching this or something of that nature.
Well, they don't have to do that.
(28:53):
They can watch the the presentations, you know, during
their work hours, right? So we are encouraging people to
sign up to have that access for the next three months.
And also they can still ask questions of people that are in
attendance and have conversations, because what I've
seen is people having conversations and using the tool
(29:14):
to collaborate for a long periodof time afterward.
So again, it's a, it's a great tool. 75 bucks get you that.
And I mean, it's, it's really, really a good deal.
And then you could also be in person if you want.
And even being in person, then you get a chance to bump into
people, collaborate, talk and all that stuff like that.
(29:37):
At the same time, you can go into the tool and you can also
use it at your leisure and to your advantage.
And there's a hotel deal too, right?
There's a hotel rate for the conference.
Yes, we have a hotel rate. We have actually three hotels
around the the Von Braun Center that people can use the the
(29:58):
Hampton Inn, the Embassy Suites,and then there's the Spring Hill
Inn and Suites. It's also there as well that we
got a, we're going to have a number of like happy hours up on
a rooftop bar and stuff like that.
That'll be fun. And there's plenty of
restaurants for people to go to.And then it's convenient for
people to get to it from the airport.
(30:20):
It's like a maybe a 10 minute drive from the airport here in
Huntsville. Man, it sounds like a great
time. Is there anything else you want
to tell us about the SU conference this year before we
wrap up? Nope, I'm, I'm, I, I think it's,
again, I'm very excited and I think I leave it up to people to
look at, you know, the, the agenda and to see what we're
talking about. See the incredible people that
(30:42):
are going to be presenting again, good number of pH DS.
I'm, I'm pleased that Jay Stratton is going to be coming
to talk. He's our keynote.
Jay, if you don't know who he is, Jay was the lead of the UAP
Task Force. I, I believe he also played in
(31:02):
on the OSAP program on the a tipor in those days as well.
And so he's had that long history of working in this
program and it's had a lot of great information that he is
planning to share. And then one other point that
I'll make and that is that Matthew Shadegas from the
(31:26):
University of Albany also has a very important announcement that
he wants to make as well. And this is about the remember
the metal that was that that wasobtained.
It's called arts parts. I believe that metal, they ran
that through. He ran it through extensive more
tests, and he's got some interesting announcements to
(31:48):
make as well. Well, fascinating.
So there's a a surprise element too, and you can't know before
you attend. Rich, thank you so much for
joining us. I look forward to seeing you at
this year's conference and I hope you enjoy your afternoon.
Thank you so much, Michael. Let that be on and talk about
it. The Anomalous Review is a
project of the Scientific Coalition for UAP Studies.
(32:10):
It's hosted and produced by ME Michael Blossom and edited by
Kelly Michelle. Our theme song was written and
performed by Telma Chrisanti. Communication and PR work is by
Preston Dykes. Our advisory team includes
Jennifer Roach, Robert Powell, Richard Hoffman, Joshua Pearson
and Larry Hancock. To find out more about SCU,
check out Explorer scu.org.
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