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May 6, 2025 32 mins

Exploring the intricate history of national identity, this episode dives deep into the story of Panama's national anthem, "Himno Istmeño." We embark on a journey that bridges the planet’s hemispheres, weaving through tales of triumph, struggle, and the geographical significance of Panama as a cultural melting pot. Our discussion highlights the fascinating narrative of the Isthmus, from colonial times through its complex path to independence, and how these events influenced the creation of its anthem. Along the way, we encounter intriguing characters and reveal their roles in shaping Panama’s musical heritage. So, grab your swimming goggles as we dive into the melodies and meanings behind a song that celebrates unity and resilience, all while navigating the sometimes murky waters of history and politics.

  1. https://benlecomte.com/2021/04/13/the-swim-documentary-trailer-additional-info/#comment-104608 
  2. Livingstone, Grace (2009). America's Backyard: The United States and Latin America from the Monroe Doctrine to the War on Terror. London: Zed. p. 13. ISBN 978-1-84813-214-6.
  3. "Avalon Project – Convention for the Construction of a Ship Canal (Hay-Bunau-Varilla Treaty), 18 November 1903". Avalon.law.yale.edu. Archived from the original on 4 November 2011. Retrieved 24 October 2010.
  4. https://www.google.com/books/edition/United_States_Treaties_and_Other_Interna/n559BTeMBIsC?hl=en&gbpv=1&pg=PA39&printsec=frontcover 
  5. https://www.cia.gov/the-world-factbook/countries/panama/ 
  6. https://web.archive.org/web/20150710174146/https://www.contraloria.gob.pa/inec/archivos/P6221DATOS%20GENERALES%20%20%20%202013.pdf 
  7. https://www.google.com/books/edition/The_Economic_Aspects_of_Spanish_Imperial/MRI-LiWuJh4C?hl=en&gbpv=1&pg=PA65&printsec=frontcover 
  8. http://whoi.edu/oceanus/feature/how-the-isthmus-of-panama-put-ice-in-the-arctic/ 
  9. https://web.archive.org/web/20210113025017/https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Narrative_of_the_Proceedings_of_Pedrarias_Davila/Introduction 
  10. https://www.history.com/articles/vasco-nunez-de-balboa 
  11. http://www.giustiniani.info/oltremare.html 
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Transcript

Episode Transcript

Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:16):
Hello and welcome to theAnthems Podcast. I'm Patrick and
I'm here to tell you the storyof a song that helps to tell the
story of a nation. Today weare traveling 5018 miles or 8076
kilometers, and this is kindof a trip that we've not taken before
because we're going to swimthe entire thing, or at least we're

(00:38):
going to try. I was not sureif it's actually possible for a human
being to swim that far, andit's certainly not possible to do
it all in one go. But to mysurprise, a longer swim has been
attempted. A guy named BenLecompte tried to swim from Japan
to the west coast of theUnited States to raise awareness
about ocean pollution, but hewas forced to abort the mission for

(01:01):
safety reasons after multipleissues with the escort boat endangered
his crew. If he had been ableto keep up the 40 miles a day average
that got him 1700 miles, itwould have been a six month project.
It's absolutely terrifyingstuff to me and an awful lot of work
just to get to a country thattechnically speaking, you could swim
right through. Because HuertoGoing to Panama Officially the Republic

(01:25):
of Panama, we are in a countrythat's been called the Melting Pot
because of its geographicplacement as a crossroads of worldwide
culture and trade. Because ofthe Canal, the idea of a Central
American canal is almostexactly 400 years older than the
completion of the one that isin Panama. It was almost in Nicaragua,

(01:47):
but Teddy Roosevelt, Americanimperialism, and our good old friend
gunboat diplomacy stepped inwhen warships and the US army assisted
in events that I'm going tokind of mention shortly. But no more
spoilers for now. It'sactually an incredible feat of engineering
and is listed as one of theseven wonders of the modern world

(02:07):
in the US 2025. It's also allover the news because of a certain
politician that I will notname and his apparent willingness
to rip up treaties. So I'vebeen hearing a lot about Panama,
more than usual, and it's on agrowing list of things I'm worried
about. Not a good reason, butit is a reason why I am going to
tell you about the HymnoEstemno or the Isthmian Anthem. By

(02:33):
now regular listeners of theshow know the drill as far as the
glaring gaps in my Americaneducation and what it's left regarding
most of non Europe'scountries. But I was not entirely
ignorant about this onebecause of how awesome American history
books think my country'sengineering achievements are. And
one of the things I knew wasthe name of the national anthem and

(02:55):
the basic circumstances of itsvery first performance. The least
surprising part about that isthat I was still surprised by all
the things that I learned inmy reading for this episode. But
before we get into all ofthem, we've got a song to listen.

(04:54):
My initial reaction is that itsounds like it's fun to sing. It's
got a ceremonial feel to it,but there's a melody change in the
middle that gives it sort ofan atypical flow for an anthem. It
leads me to believe that wemay be facing another tune that was
not originally intended to bea national anthem, but we'll find
out. The version that we heardwas selected because it is a freely

(05:16):
available digital version madeespecially for public download in
2012 at the National Theaterof Panama by the Orchestra Sinfonica
Nacional. So despite listeningto many renditions, this one was
an easy choice. Just like thedecision about what I'm eating if
I'm at a place that servessancocho. It's the national dish

(05:37):
of Panama, and one of thethings I knew about ahead of the
episode and one of thetastiest things I've had a chance
to eat a spicier version ofyour grandmother's chicken soup made
with yucca, plantains andcilantro. Certainly not a dish for
everybody, but definitely adish for me. There are many Latin
American restaurants thatserve it where I live, but the question

(05:58):
here is where in the world I'dneed to go in order to eat it, where
it is the national dish andmade by somebody whose grandmother
taught them how. As long as weknow where South America is, Panama
is actually verystraightforward place to find on
a world map. It's theSouthernMost of the 7 Central American
countries and the one thatconnects the northwestern portion

(06:18):
of the continent, sort ofright in the middle of the Colombian
coastline. So I guess we cansay that the eastern and sort of
a bit of the southern borderof Panama is Colombia, and the western
border is with Costa Rica.Most of the northern and southern
boundaries are coastline withthe Caribbean Sea and the North Pacific

(06:38):
Ocean, respectively. Thenearly 4.4 million people who live
there live in a tropicalcountry that's almost exactly the
same size as Lake Victoria inAfrica. It's nearly 40% forested
and due to its location,supports Central America's most diverse
wildlife population with northand South American species. One of

(06:59):
the many interesting thingsabout the geographic place the country
occupies, but not, in myopinion, the most interesting that
might be the isthmus itselfbecause its formation roughly three
and a half million years ago,heavily influenced the current form
of the Gulf Stream and theArctic ice cap. But how, I wonder
aloud? Evidence suggests thatancient plate convergence started

(07:23):
to close the Central Americanseaway. And this caused the salinity
in the Pacific Ocean to dropwhile it increased in the Atlantic
Ocean. And that intensifiedthe ocean conveyor. You're gonna
have to look that up. It'scrazy interesting, but it's way too
complex for me to understandit enough to explain it to anybody.
So this in turn intensifiedthe Gulf Stream as the isthmus formed,

(07:44):
which introduce more moistureto the Arctic. More moisture means
more sea ice. More sea icemeans more heat reflected back into
space, which means more seaice. And eventually that leads to
sheeting and an ice cap. It'sa fascinating process and it happened
a long time ago. Our story isgoing to have a start a few million
years later in the planet'shistory. So let's get there. Panama

(08:08):
was part of the Spanish empirefor like 300 years. And it varied
from a novelty to the mostimportant spot depending on how the
empire was doing at the time.So this is yet another part of the
growing sub series of thedownfall of colonialism. It means
we're entering the timelinewith the arrival of the Spanish on
the shores of Central America.And then we're going to fly through

(08:29):
a couple few hundred years ofhistory at speed, as we usually do.
The first European to make itto the area was a conquistador named
Rodrigo de Bastidas in theyear 1501, followed shortly thereafter
by Christopher Columbus on hisfourth voyage. By 1509, the Spanish
Crown had decided they wantedthe region that they very uncreatively

(08:52):
dubbed terra firma, or dryland. And the next year, the first
European settlement on theAmerican mainland was established
and named Santa Maria laAntigua del Darian. Technically it
was actually in modern dayColombia. But history has shown me
the malleability of nationsborders plenty of times. An expedition

(09:13):
set out from the settlementand Vasco Nunez de Balboa became
the first known European tosee the Pacific Ocean. He and other
explorers descriptions of theregion impressed Ferdinand ii, who
is the guy that historyconsiders the first king of Spain.
And by the middle of 1514,there were 22 ships and 1500 soldiers

(09:34):
in the newly renamed GoldenCastile. For my purposes, I'm going
to put the actual colonizationof the Isthmus in 1519, when the
so called first permanentsettlement was moved to the modern
location of Panama City, thecapital of the country that enabled
a Pacific port for the firsttime and was used to facilitate the

(09:55):
slave trade as well as one ofthe launching points for the conquest
of the Incan Empire andNicaragua. Given the strategic importance
of Panama for the Spanishtreasure fleet and Asian trade routes,
as well as it being immune toAtlantic pirates, the capital was
established as the center ofSpanish government for all of South
America in 1538. That is,until it was burned to the ground

(10:17):
by Welsh privateers in 1671.You can hear that as government sanctioned
pirates. The Scottish tried toget in on the colonial profit in
1698 with the Darien scheme,but the Spanish put an end to that
two years later. And I mentionit only because it used about 20%
of all the money in Scotlandat the time, and the resulting financial

(10:39):
ruin was a significantcontributor to the formation of the
United Kingdom. Panama playeda pivotal role in the creation and
maintenance of the SpanishEmpire. Couple that with the political
power that was ceded there andthe economic prosperity in the region,
and by 1740, the colony haddeveloped a strong sense of autonomy
from Europe well before therest of the Americas did. By the

(11:03):
middle of the 18th century,the region's significance had begun
to diminish due to tradepressures, technological navigation
advances and the relocation ofCentral American political power
to modern day Bogota,Colombia. The independence movement
had been waiting in the wingsand their moment was finally at hand.
Since we're back in a countrythat's attached to South America,

(11:24):
it should not be a big shockthat Simone Bolivar is involved a
bit in this story. We'll betalking about him more in subsequent
trips here, obviously becausehis role's kinda tangential in the
Isthmus. In 1819, Bolivar ledhis armies in a complicated victory
over the Spanish and freed theprovince of New Granada, of which

(11:45):
Panama was a part of at thetime. Their independence was fully
achieved in a bloodless revoltwhen the Spanish left to fight in
Ecuador and the firstdeclaration of independence was made
in the small town of Via delos Santos. The movement quickly
spread to the capital and itwas accelerated by the arrival of
a printing press in theregion. And they immediately used

(12:07):
that to spread therevolutionary cause. Shortly after
the official independence byNational assembly on October 28 of
1821, they joined GranColombia in order to protect their
freedom because they wereafraid the Spanish were going to
come back. We're going tobreeze over the next 10 years where

(12:28):
the country went independentagain and then rejoined Colombia
without Venezuela and Ecuador,in the Republic of new Granada in
1831, because that started arelationship that lasted for another
70 years, and it takes us wellpast the birth of the poet. So insert
some pins where you think youwill need them and we'll be back

(12:48):
for the country's completeindependence in a little bit. Geronimo
de la Osa was born on April9th in 1847 in Panama City and was
the youngest of five siblings.There's not a lot about the man's
life as a child until he leftfor Santiago, Chile in 1868 to study

(13:09):
civil engineering andmathematics. He took up writing in
Chile and did the bulk of itas a student, getting published in
various magazines, newspapersand collections there and in Panama,
he focused mostly on longingfor his homeland and the people that
he left behind. I read thatduring his stay there he also developed
an interest in journalism, butapparently not in any kind of a professional

(13:32):
sense, at least that I couldfind. In 1879, Euronimo returned
to Panama as the chiefengineer for the French Canal Company
and married AngelicaBertamoto, the daughter of Italian
merchants that lived in SantaAna. That same year, he read a poem
at a ceremony kicking off thePanama Canal effort by the French,

(13:54):
for which he was awarded agold medal by the Colombian government
in 1880. OSA was not onlyinterested in getting the canal built,
which is a good thing becausethe French did not actually succeed
in finishing the Canal, butalso in the people that were building
it. He made many drawings ofthem and collected stories from all
over the world, since theworkers came from all over the French

(14:16):
Empire. This might have beenwhat drew him into political activity
and compelled him to drop theDe La from his name because of its
upper class connotations. ButI don't really know. That's a supposition.
Along those lines, heparticipated in protests against
US meddling in his country'saffairs. More on that in a few. He
got himself appointed as theinspector of the ports of Panama,

(14:39):
served as Chile's ConsulGeneral in his home country, and
in 1895 was the President ofthe Panama City Municipal Council.
He passed, of causes unknownto me, in 1907 in the same city he
was born, and just a few yearsafter he was asked to write the lyrics
to IMNO and Istmeno. He wasasked to write the lyrics by his

(15:03):
friend and our composer,Santos Jorge Amatrean, who was born
on November 1st in 1870 inPeralta, Spain. Apart from knowing
that he was born in Spain, hadsome siblings, and earned a music
theory degree from the MadridSchool of Music and Declamation,
his early life is a mystery.So he and the poet are true to the

(15:26):
pattern for my show. Somethingcompelled him to seek opportunity
in the New World and he begana trip to emigrate to Peru in 1888.
Some sources say he went withsiblings, but they're not very clear
on who they are or how manypeople were in his party. In 1889,
he stopped in Panama andperformed the Prelude by Bach, who's

(15:48):
actually my favorite composer,and enjoyed the country so much that
he sort of just never left.His musical talents served him well
there, and the Bishop ofPanama brought him on as chapel master,
although the record is unclearabout how long he remained in that
role. And I'm not really surewhat a chapel master does. In 1892,
he was appointed as thedirector for the band of the Sovereign

(16:10):
State Guard, but resigned fromthat position in 1896 before resuming
the role again from 1900 until1912. Also back in 1892, he married
a woman named Juana Osario andthey went on to have 10 children
together. My sources were veryscant on other info about his family,

(16:31):
though. Santos Jorge had kindof a long life, and as many of the
men involved in these anthemstories, it was steeped in music
throughout. The dates on a lotof this stuff are unclear, so I will
uncite them, but he was atvarious times a teacher, composer
and conductor. He worked atPanama's teacher training school,
various municipal locations,in addition to privately tutoring

(16:54):
voice theory, piano andviolin. His compositions ranged from
mazurka to habanera to fantasyto march to polka and back again
through the genres and theyears. Through all of this work he
brought European romanticsymbolism in and utilized the culture
of his adopted homeland asinspiration for the pieces. Amitrian

(17:17):
was especially prolificcomposer of school anthems, having
no less than nine well knownworks to his name. One of them is
even well known enough thatI'm technically talking about it
right now on my show. We'llget to the details of that in a little
bit though, because I need tonote Jorge's passing in Panama on
December 22nd of 1941 ofunknown causes. From here we're going

(17:42):
to jump back in time so I candiscuss Panama reaching its current
form and exactly how they gottheir anthem popping back to the
Beginning of the 1830s, wearrive at the start of a long and
mostly stable but uneasyalliance between Panama and Colombia.
The Isthmus declaredindependence during a religious civil

(18:04):
war, but it was only a 13month break from the union. And US
intervention, largely due tothe Monroe Doctrine, enforced a stability
of sorts in the region thatstood until 1903. In many ways, it
was an artificial stabilitybecause the military was used to
enforce it many times, and asper usual, pretty much no one living

(18:25):
there was asked about whatthey thought should happen, and all
the decisions were made byforeigners. But Panama is the thin
spot in the Americas, soFrance and the United States were
not going to let this placego. That's why in 1846, treatment
secured trans isthmus rightsfor canals and railroads that led

(18:47):
to the first railway across in1855. It was called the Panama Canal
Railway. As the name implies,it was fundamentally important to
completing the canal at thebeginning of the 20th century. US
interest in completing whatturned into a failed French project
is in fact what led toPanama's complete independence, at

(19:10):
least in the way it did.Independence is also probably the
wrong word, since myunderstanding is that Panama considered
itself a distinct nationalidentity well before the separation
from Colombia, and theythought it was a separation versus
an independence. So the USunder Roosevelt sort of pushed Colombia
out of the picture in a seriesof events and treaties that I can't

(19:33):
afford the time here to get usmired in trying to decipher. And
that was all done in theinterest of getting control of the
region to put a canal thereand finish what the French started.
I thought I was going to wadeinto all of that when I started doing
the reading, but it's layersand layers involving more creative
interpretations of treaties bypoliticians. We're concerned with

(19:55):
the end result of thatintervention, or rather a specific
part of it, wherein WilliamBuchanan was appointed to be the
US Minister in Panama byTheodore Roosevelt following his
stint as ambassador toArgentina. As a side note, I will
admit that I have a terribleknowledge of who the US Presidents
were for the most part, and Idefinitely thought this guy was one

(20:16):
of them. But that was JamesBuchanan. He was number 15. The new
ambassador had to present hiscredentials to the provisional Government
board of the newly separatedPanamanian nation at a ceremony.
And there was no anthem forthe country. Just a few years back
in 1897, Santos Jorge hadcomposed a song called A Hymn to

(20:38):
Bolivar with lyrics by JoseTorres, that was to be the school
anthem for the Collegio de laFe. It became quite popular, but
the lyrics fairly quickly fellout of use and left us with an instrumental
tune that was played forpatriotic purposes. Jorge presented
it when the country needed asong for official ceremonies, and

(21:00):
he asked his friend EronomoOssa to pen a new patriotic set of
lyrics. Law 39 was adapted bythe Panamanian National assembly
in 1906 that provisionallyestablished Imno Esmeno as the national
anthem of the country. In thesubsequent 1921 contest, the people

(21:20):
indicated it was the song theypreferred, and in 1941, during a
constitutional revision, itwas officially written in as the
national symbol. And with thatwe have our anthem, and I can go
on to discuss the song itself.Musically speaking, we have a song
that was composed as ananthem, albeit for a school, but

(21:42):
nonetheless it fits the billand does it well. It is a nearly
March in 44 time with a majorkey that I have now come to associate
with patriotism. The songfollows European romantic classical
tradition, mostly becausethat's the music the composer was
trained in and loved to writebased on his broader catalog. That's

(22:02):
where the majestic melody andharmonic progressions come from that
lend it a very nearly but notquite Spanish military feeling. But
Santos, unlike some composersof south and Central American anthems,
really leaned into his newhomeland and crafted a singable structure
that has a slowish, reverentintroduction followed by a more boisterous

(22:23):
section. Although it was notinitially written with that in mind,
it certainly mirrors Panama'semergence from the colonialism and
onto the world stage as acountry of no small importance. I'm
guessing that my listeners,despite being a pretty diverse audience
and being spread across anamazing 80 countries, understand

(22:43):
English, but not necessarilythe actual language the anthem is
sung in. Mostly I assume thisbecause not knowing English would
make it tough to understand aguy that can basically only speak
that, so I think the show isgoing to drift away from talking
about the song's actualcontent and meaning before I get
to the read through in mynative tongue. In terms of tone,

(23:05):
though, it feels solemn anduplifting. Having a choir accompany
the band is usually a plus forme. This one I enjoy, and it feels
celebratory in a way that ananthem should to me, the Imno est
Meno is written as chorus, twoverses, chorus two verses, and it
ends with the one morerefrain. This is originally written

(23:29):
and sung in Spanish, but Iwill be reading an English translation
that I've pieced together froma couple of different versions. Going
to read the chorus first andthen just note where it comes up
in the rest of the tune. Atlast we reached victory in the joyous
field of the union with ardentfires of glory a new nation shines

(23:51):
bright with ardent fires ofglory a new nation shines bright
Tis necessary to cover with aveil the past time of Calvary and
cross Let now the blue skiesbe adorned with the splendid light
of concord progress caressesyour path to the rhythm of a sublime
song. Thou seest both thy seasroar at your feet, giving you a path

(24:17):
to the noble mission. Then thechorus. In your soil covered with
flowers to the kisses of thewarm terrestrial breeze warriors
roars have ceased. Onlyfraternal love reigns ahead the shovel
and pick at travail withoutmore dilation and we will be as such

(24:40):
at work and gala of thisfruitful world of Columbus. Then
again, the refrain. Jorgeopens his anthem with a declaration
of independence and unity. Itis stated as a victory won through
struggle, but moreimportantly, through the solidarity
of the people. A new nationshining bright and lit with the ardent

(25:02):
fires of glory is a powerfulopening statement and indicative
of another poet thatdefinitely understood the assignment.
This is a piece very muchwritten with the intention in mind.
Not an isolated incident forthis guy either. He's a great writer
and it's a shame that hisworks remain scattered. With no collection
for me to direct you to for amore comprehensive read through,

(25:25):
should you so choose to makeone. The first verse has the country
emerging from a long sufferingand time of struggle into a period
of reconciliation.Specifically that the pain and sacrifice
of colonial rule and internalconflict that prevented them from
coming into their own foryears. There are clear and strong
allusions to Christianityhere, indicating that Jorge was quite

(25:48):
religious and reflecting thatnearly 90% of the country is Roman
Catholic. Using Claverio y laCruz, which is the cavalry, and the
cross is a direct reference tothe crucifixion of Christ and as
a reference point for thesuffering of the people that was
endured before independence.It's a very strong indicator of the

(26:08):
depth of their belief. Inverse 2, he moves on to another frequent
anthem, the land itself,speaking of the symbolic role that
Panama's fortuitous locationand geography give the land and the
people. The country issometimes referred to as the bridge
of the world, which makessense. It's a notion made pretty
explicit with the completionof the canal as a pass through for

(26:31):
the Eastern and Westernhemisphere. He calls it a noble mission
and alludes to the peacefulnation and the nature of things there.
After the refrain, verse threepicks up the name of the land and
makes it feel kind ofpastoral, although I think there's
a better word for peacefulparadise that I cannot think of right
now. The imagery of a flowercovered soil and warm breezes suggests

(26:55):
tranquil fertility andpeacefulness. An anthem that touts
the harmonious brotherhood ofa nation. And a shift away from warrior
culture is not especiallycommon and some of these songs are
downright violent in nature,but Panama puts their money where
their mouth is and per Article310 of the 1972 Constitution, they

(27:16):
don't even have a standingarmy, although the full situation
there is complicated. Soplease read about that on your own.
That has stuff has to do withManuel Noriego Moving on the fourth
verse reminds me of the firstanthem that I covered on the show,
La Destination, and how partsof it are directed directly at the

(27:38):
workingclass citizens of thecountry. Here Asa talks pretty explicitly
about the literal nationbuilding through the work of folks
with pickaxes and shovels,highlighting their ability to present
Panama as a beacon in the landthat Columbus discovered. I will
note the presence of veryheavy air quotes around the discovered

(27:59):
part while referencing whatChristopher did in the New World
since he is one of the peoplein my interesting and terrible category
that I'll eventually have timefor another podcast about. All told,
we have an anthem that ismostly a moral hymn instead of a
militaristic one, and callsfor the people to embrace peace while

(28:20):
working in national unity.It's an idealistic vision and it
stands as a poetic statementof the nation's founding principles.
It's a very forward lookingpiece of writing fashioned over a
stirring piece of music andstands as a really good example of
how an anthem can takeartistic ideas that were honed in
Europe and adapt them to newideas of how a nation ought to work

(28:41):
in the Americas. It speaksvolumes about the character and nature
of the people that live inPanama and I've enjoyed hearing it,
learning the story, andfiguring out how I was going to relay
that to you folks. As usual, Ihope that you have had a similarly
gratifying experience andenjoyed hearing this show. On to

(29:02):
the credits. The writing,recording and production for the
show are done by me and Iwrote and played the theme music.
The music was used with mypermission. Unless otherwise noted,
the anthems I play are publicdomain. Some other equivalently free
license. The thing I gotpermission the player of at least
made a good faith effort toget permission to play as noted in

(29:25):
the beginning. This time I wasable to find the first official digital
version of the anthem that wasrecorded in 2012 and made freely
available to the public. Mysources are contained in the show
notes and the most direct wayto get to those show notes is@anthemspodcast.com
I can be found on Facebook andWhatsApp as the anthems podcast.

(29:47):
I was on Reddit to look forinformation for the show, but it's
been far less useful for thatthan I thought it was going to be.
So I am not there anymore.Someday I'll have the free time and
energy to have a larger socialmedia presence. Maybe. Until then
my advertising budget exists,but it is limited. So I'm going to
ask you to please help me getthe episode onto whatever platform

(30:09):
you can with the hashtaganthemspod. Think Instagram, Mastodon,
Blue Sky, Twitter, or any ofthe other one that the kids are on
that I don't know about. Itwould be super cool if you shared
this content with others andperhaps it will somehow lead to large
and militarily powerfulcountries leaving Panama in charge
of their own canal andrespecting treaties that they signed.

(30:32):
As always, you can email mecorrections, comments and concerns,
suggestions, ideas,instructions on how to do things,
or ask mequestions@anthemspodmail.com perhaps
you want me to hear exactlyhow mad you are at me or how happy
you are? Call me or text me at1-203-759-8375. Or better still,

(30:56):
leave me a review wherever youcan so more people can hear me or
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This show is can credentialed,which means you can report incidences
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(31:17):
or on their website@creatoraccountability network.org. you can
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you have to constantly pauseyour recording when people walk by
talking loudly. And sincespring is finally warming up in your

(31:37):
part of the world, you canplay this very episode very loudly
and open the windows. But evenif all that happens is that you listen
to one more, then I sincerelythank you for your time and next
time I'll see you somewheredifferent sometime soon. Sa.
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