October 25, 2025 • 61 mins
Capacity steals the spotlight, but at real defensive distances it’s access, control, and hits that decide outcomes. We sat down with trainer and gunsmith Brian Eastridge to unpack why a well-set-up revolver can still be the smartest choice for concealed carry and home defense. From pocket-carried snubs that deliver a sub-second covered draw to three-inch “gunfighter” barrels with full-length ejector rods, Brian explains how wheel guns solve everyday concealment and deployment problems autos often complicate.
We dig into caliber and recoil management with a clear recommendation: .38 Special for small and medium frames. You’ll hear why standard-pressure loads in sub-3-inch barrels outperform “hotter” options, how wadcutters shine in snubs, and why .357 Magnum in light revolvers punishes more than it pays. We also get practical about fit and ergonomics, comparing J, K, L, and N frames and highlighting the grip modularity that lets revolvers truly change trigger reach and control. On the setup front, Brian makes a strong case for double-action-only carry guns, dehorned or enclosed hammers, and keeping triggers honest to avoid snags, negligent discharges, and legal headaches.
Training takes center stage with proven drills: Justin Dial’s Five-Yard Roundup, skip-loading for a smooth trigger roll, and the Super Snubby Test on a B8 to balance speed and precision. We talk pocket holsters, covered low ready, and why the most reliable reload might be a second revolver when stakes are high and time is short. Throughout, the message stays simple and serious: accuracy ends fights. If your wardrobe, environment, or comfort level demands deep concealment with fast, discreet access, a thoughtfully chosen .38 Special revolver may be the most modern move you can make.
If this conversation sharpened your thinking, follow the show, share it with a friend who carries, and leave a review so more responsible defenders can find it.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
SPEAKER_02 (00:00):
Hi, welcome to the Armed Guardian Podcast, season
one, episode four.
Today, David and I will betalking with Brian Eastridge,
the Eastridge Training andConsultant LLC.
Our topic for today's podcastwill be revolvers.
Are they still a valid concealtheory weapon for conceal theory
in the rise of semi-automatics?
(00:20):
So sit back, enjoy, and listento today's podcast, and here we
go.
Hi, welcome to the ArmedGuardian Podcast.
I'm your host, Brian, and uh wehave David here.
And we've got a guest today thatuh a topic that some people say
is a little outdated forconcealed carriers with the uh
(00:41):
advent of semi-automatics.
Uh Brian Eastridge, he's here tojoin us and talk to us about
revolvers and are they stillvalid for the concealed carrier?
How are you doing, Brian?
SPEAKER_00 (00:52):
Doing great.
Thanks.
Thanks for having me on.
SPEAKER_02 (00:56):
Thanks for joining us.
Uh so who is Brian Eastridge andwhat do you do?
SPEAKER_00 (01:03):
Well, I wear a number of hats.
Um let's see.
I guess I the main gig I have isuh I'm co-owner of EDC Belt
Company.
So we make a concealed carrybelt.
It's kind of purpose-built forthe armed citizen.
Uh, you know, it's it'sreinforced where it needs to be
(01:26):
and it's uh nice and comfy whereit uh should be.
So that was a project of minethat was born out of years of
wearing a Sam Brown duty beltand chronic sciatica and all
those things.
And I figured out uh throughafter a vacation that it really
wasn't my duty belt that wascausing all those problems.
(01:46):
It was uh it was a uh particularconcealed carry belt.
So uh I started that in 2019.
Uh sell them through ourwebsite, through uh
langdontactical.com.
Ernest and Amy sell them, andthen uh Concealed Carry Inc.
sells them as well.
So yeah, that's kind of my maingig.
(02:11):
And then I have another LLC,it's Eastridge Training and
Consulting.
I do some firearms industryconsulting at times.
Uh do some open enrollmenttraining, very little anymore.
I just don't have time.
Uh I do enjoy it, but uh thelast couple years I've I've just
(02:31):
haven't had the time to do it.
So I mainly teach at likeconference type stuff, and then
I'll do one or two openenrollments a year, but teaching
at like the Guardian Nationconference, uh, and then the Pat
Rogers Memorial Revolver Roundupat Gunsight.
I teach there every year, andyeah, that's a fun one if you
(02:52):
get a chance.
I think there's like five or sixspots left for that this year.
Wow and it's it's in November,it's the weekend before
Thanksgiving, and uh it's agreat hang.
And it's just learn a lot ofrevolver history and talk to
some armed professionals thathave carried them and how they
train with them that whole nineyards.
(03:13):
And then I have the off-dutyon-duty podcast, and uh this
time of year that one kind ofslows down because this is kind
of the busy season through aboutDecember.
So I try to get one out a month.
Sometimes I get one out everytwo weeks.
Um a lot of good guests onthere.
Everybody from Rob Latham toHaney McMood to Gerald Bulky's
(03:36):
been on a bunch, and EricGellhouse, some other guys that
um uh Lee Weams has been on acouple of times, our mutual
buddy.
And that's that's kind of it.
Now that I've retired from lawenforcement, I seem to be busier
than I ever was when I was acop.
SPEAKER_02 (03:54):
So yeah, always works out like that.
SPEAKER_00 (03:57):
Everybody told me that, and I was like, nah, I'm
gonna work like two, three daysa week, and then man, my phone
started ringing and it hadn'tstopped.
SPEAKER_02 (04:04):
So yeah, I I like your podcast, uh, on duty,
off-duty, because youincorporate the view from both
worlds, uh, the law enforcementperspective and then the
concealed carrier's perspective.
So uh I really like that, and Ithink I got David uh attached uh
(04:24):
in love with it also, uhrecommended it to him and uh uh
a good one.
Uh like like what you do onthat.
SPEAKER_00 (04:32):
Well, it was when that was hashed, you know, the
producers and I talked about it,and they said, we want you to do
the cop and concealed carrierperspective.
And I said, I can sum that up inlike two sentences, like you
know, citizens aren't under anyobligation to put handcuffs on
anybody.
Right.
Ta-da, done, you know, and it'slike, no, come on.
(04:54):
But anyway, that was and Ithat's see, that's been going I
was two years in July.
So remember it was two or three,so yeah, two years ago, July.
SPEAKER_02 (05:09):
So all right.
Well, we'll go ahead and jumpinto some of our topic questions
that we have here.
Um one thing I get uh peoplecoming to a lot of the classes
that I teach is a lot of peoplebring for the favorite is the
(05:29):
semi-automatic pistol.
I get one of the favoritemultiple revolver and things
like that.
Um I think revolvers still havea valid primary uh concern for
the concealed carrier as aprimary weapon to carry.
(05:49):
And there are some issues thatwith the revolver that you know
gender and age and stuff likethat, I know play a part in, but
uh uh are are revolvers stillvalid for CCW in the world of
semi-automatics.
SPEAKER_00 (06:05):
Under some circumstances, I think they're
they kind of pay an advantage.
SPEAKER_03 (06:11):
Right.
SPEAKER_00 (06:12):
Um but I I think they're a little more I won't
say neat, I don't want to sayniche, but they they kind of fit
two things.
For carrying them every day,they're kind of niche.
For a fire extinguisher at home,yeah, they fit they fit that
role so well.
Right.
Uh, and that's that's reallywhere I think they they live
(06:36):
until you get to a certain pointin training and understanding of
methodologies that that that youcan really take an advantage
from them.
SPEAKER_02 (06:45):
Right.
Yeah, I know one of the thingsthat I see and with the
industry, uh, I'll see a lot ofthe elderly that will come to
classes and the gun shops orpawn shops, you know.
Hey, you you're just looking forsomething to throw in a purse or
a knife stand and a revolversimply just press the trigger or
(07:10):
pull the trigger, as theyusually say.
But uh people come that uh havea problem with that 12-pound
trigger press on the doubleaction, and you don't really
want them to carry or present itin a single action mode unless
you know they really know whatto do and because of the
(07:30):
potential for negativedischarge.
So that's one of my concernswith the I don't want to cover
the gun industry as a whole, butyou know, for the ones that are
looking to kind of push offstuff that don't really invest
the time into getting the gun tothe carrier for the person
(07:52):
that's wanting to buy it.
Um but I've also had some issueswith some of the I won't name
the brand, but uh some of thesemi-autos that have group
safety for um elderly peoplethat were they just ripped the
gun hard enough to deactivatethe safety fire semi-automatic.
So it's kind of a I think it's adouble-edged sword, but um I
(08:16):
think you can feel uh revolversare a good option.
Uh definitely for a uh backup ifyou decide you want to carry a
backup, uh, and then for thehome defense, I think that it
really fits in well with them.
SPEAKER_00 (08:31):
Yeah, and I I think the industry as a whole, there
are very few um like point ofsale.
I the you go above that todistributor level, they they're
not dealing with the customer.
You go above that to the the themanufacturers, they have a
(08:52):
pretty good understanding oflike what makes revolvers great.
Um unfortunately, revolvers wereborn out of a time when skilled
labor was cheap and engineeringwas expensive, and now that role
has kind of flipped.
Um, where you know theengineering side of the house,
(09:13):
you know, solid works, man.
That that's the programeverybody's using to design
stuff nowadays, and it's a lotmore attainable than it was in
1909 and prior.
unknown (09:28):
Right.
SPEAKER_00 (09:28):
Uh, but but skilled labor in that era was cheap, you
know.
I I have a real love forpre-1939 revolvers, and they're
works of art, but somebody wasmaking uh you know a dollar an
hour to make to build those, youknow, or 50 cents an hour.
Right, those days are gone.
Uh so but your end gun shopsalespeople don't really have a
(09:53):
good idea uh because let's faceit, the people that are working
those roles, unless it's youknow a part-time gig or you
know, somebody that's older,retired, wants a job, they're
typically not very high-payingjobs, and they're typically
staffed by people that grew upwith the Glock 19.
unknown (10:12):
Right.
SPEAKER_00 (10:13):
And and that's not a that's not a knock at that that
generation or that that uh enduser.
And there are some exceptions tothat.
I mean, there are exceptions toeverything.
Uh, but a lot of you know, a lotof the younger generation now
you hand them a revolver andthey look at it like a Rubik's
Cube.
Um and I'm actually kind of inthe young category for being
(10:36):
somebody that that has a prettydeep understanding of revolvers.
Um so that's that's kind of mytwo cents as to why that those
wires get crossed up.
And and I've had I've had somereally highly respected
instructors that are older thanme that you know, I say, Hey,
hey, you got any revolvers?
Do you want to have a wheel gunday?
(10:56):
I don't I don't reallyunderstand revolvers, never shot
them.
Right, you know, and these arepeople in their 50s, and it's
like, oh man, and unless youwere in law enforcement, yeah,
the semi-auto pistol, I mean,even the military adopted it
back in the the teens.
So so it's uh the LE world wasslow to get on the auto bus, but
(11:17):
you know, that's been like theagency I worked for transitioned
to autos in 1990, you know.
1990 was well quite a long timeago now.
Yeah.
So thirty thirty some years ago.
SPEAKER_02 (11:33):
Yeah.
And something too, people youknow, understanding revolvers
are the different frame sizes,you know, like the J frame, the
L frame, the N frame, and stuff,and just you know, what's the
difference in them?
Because you know, someone likeme with the or a person with a
large hand, a J frame revolveris can be a little bit of a
(11:55):
challenge to handle uh comparedto the N-frame and K and uh L
frame models.
SPEAKER_00 (12:02):
Yeah, but the benefit you have is a wide
variety of stock options, right?
I'm not talking about SP 500.
I'm like the actual stocks onthe gun, right?
The grips.
Um you know, you can tailor arevolver way, way more than you
can tailor a semi-auto.
A semi-auto, you know, you'reyou've got the options of burn
(12:22):
it with a soldering iron or slaptape on it, right?
SPEAKER_03 (12:25):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (12:26):
Um some of the newer modern semi-autos, they like the
HK VP9 has a lot of modularityto it, but even that degree of
modularity doesn't really changethe reach to the trigger, which
is the critical one.
Right.
Um and J-frames, to me, they fitthey fit a really specific role,
(12:48):
and uh and it's one that mostpeople in training will not
explore because uh let's faceit, there's only maybe 10,
15,000 people in the wholeUnited States that quote go take
training above you knowsomething very basic.
SPEAKER_02 (13:06):
So David, you want to ask the next question?
SPEAKER_01 (13:11):
Yes, sir.
Can you all hear me all right?
Yeah.
All right, Brian.
So with all the many differentcalibers out there for
revolvers, um, I know a lot ofpeople are using them now for
hunting and many differentdifferent areas of of the
firearms world.
Which one would you recommend?
Or what do you like, or maybe afew of them?
SPEAKER_00 (14:02):
Well, um, for small and medium frame revolvers, if
you're gonna buy a revolvertoday, just buy a 38 special.
Um, there's no need to shoot 357Magnum unless you're hunting
bears or something, you know.
I mean, it 357 is justpunishing.
Uh 38 special, you can practicewith a lighter downloaded
(14:27):
cartridge.
You can carry a plus P.
But if you're gonna get a barrellength below uh like three
inches, just get standardvelocity 38 special.
There's really no benefit goinganything hotter than that if
you're going below three inchbarrels.
But 38 to me is probably themost versatile that's out there,
(14:47):
and that's mainly because youhave a wide variety.
You can go a very light bulletvery fast with very low recoil,
or you can go a medium bulletwith medium recoil, or you can
go a really heavy bullet andhurt yourself.
I mean, it's just and all pointsin between.
Um ammunition-wise, 38 specialis probably the most affordable
(15:08):
and it's the easiest to findversus you know 44 mag, 44
special, 32 HR, stuff like that.
Um but yeah, 38 special, and andI tell people if you've got if
you've got an interest inrevolvers, they made something
like 12 million K-frame modeltens and MPs, which is your you
(15:30):
know, medium frame, K-frame,Smith and Wesson specifically.
Um they've made like a they madethem since 1899.
They're in ever like there's aused one in every gun shop in
America.
They can typically be had for500 or less dollars.
And just if that's what you wantto learn, then you know, Model
(15:53):
64, Model 10, uh, Model 13s or357 mag chambered.
The reason I discourage peoplefrom going and jumping in the
357 mag pool is if you go toyour local gun shop and the
salesman that looks at arevolver like a Rubik's Cube
sees 357 Magnum on the side,what ammunition is he gonna try
(16:14):
to sell you?
357 mag, right?
And you're gonna shoot it sixtimes and go, I'm never touching
that again.
Versus if you say, I want a 38special, and the salesman says,
Oh, well, here's a 357 mag, andyou can shoot either one.
Well, now you you're talking tosomebody that's at least
somewhat informed.
(16:36):
But yeah, I really recommend geta medium frame 38 special and
and invest the time there.
Learn learn it there, and uh youcan you can go smaller or larger
from there, right?
Make sense?
SPEAKER_01 (16:54):
Yes, sir.
And that kind of leads me to Iguess when you mentioned uh the
different sizes um as far as thebarrel length.
Uh I know I've seen snub nose upto eight inches, and there may
be even some bigger.
I'm not sure.
I'm not as familiar withrevolvers as probably you are.
But do you recommend one size inparticular?
Are there different situationswhere one size might be better?
(17:15):
Um your thoughts on that?
SPEAKER_00 (17:18):
Yeah, so for the quasi-arm professional, a
three-inch or a three and a halfinch barrel, that is like the
gunfighter length, right?
It's uh I've got like fivethree-inch model tens and some
in-frame 27s that are three anda half inch.
Because they're the perfectbalance and you get a
(17:38):
full-length ejector rod.
And people are like, what do youmean by that?
Well, if you go to a snub, therod will not is not long enough
to fully extract the cartridges.
So a three-inch gun, you can youcan fully unseat the the spent
cartridges, um, which isimportant if you're gonna carry
(17:58):
that uh in a quasi-professionalmanner.
Um the pocket snub is is one ofmy favorites.
Um got a couple of friends thatthat's that's saved their bacon.
Um and the ability, as my goodfriend Daryl Bulkey has has kind
of coined a term, with a snubrevolver in a pocket holster,
(18:22):
you know, on your strong side,you can casually stand there and
not alarm anybody and have yourhand fully in a firing grip on a
on a gun that you can deliver inunder a second.
And uh, you may have seen thevideos.
Daryl and me and a guy namedRett Niemier, we've all we've
all demoed that.
(18:42):
And uh the funny part of that isyou know, for the semi-auto
community that spends aninordinate amount of time trying
to get below a subsecond draw tofirst shot, uh, you know, with
moving pieces and all that, it'slike we can throw a sucker punch
from the pocket and be there inabout a half second.
And I'm not saying that's agreat primary role, but uh Daryl
(19:06):
Coined it is covered low ready.
So it's everything's concealedand covered, but I'm I'm I'm
ready to act.
And it doesn't look sociallyoffensive to people if you're
standing there with your hand inyour pocket.
So uh I think that's a reallyvalid method.
And for that, you need that subthat two inch or less barrel,
(19:28):
um, and generally a pretty lightrevolver, uh, which are not the
most pleasant to shoot.
But fortunately, in that format,what seems to be the best
functioning ammo is either yourlead semi-wide cutter at
standard velocity or your 148grain target wide cutter.
And there's some really goodcompanies out there that are
(19:50):
making very consistent ammothat's loaded just a touch above
what match ammo would be loadedfor.
Uh, like Curtis Shipley at GAArms makes a wide cutter that'll
run 750 feet per second out ofan inch and seven eighths inch
uh Smith and Wesson J frame.
And that that round is purposebuilt as a defensive round.
(20:12):
Um and it everything we see, itflat works.
It's like it it's solid.
Um and you can if you're areloader, you can kind of mimic
that and download it a littlebit and be easier on your wrists
and and everything else.
So that's kind of the two barrellinks I recommend.
(20:32):
But like I said, if you're juststarting out on a revolver, a
four-inch old, I call them theold cop service guns, a four a
four-inch Model 10 64, 65, uhRuger GP, something like that.
Um, I mean they're they're stillreasonably affordable and and a
four-inch barrel you can do justabout anything with.
SPEAKER_02 (20:55):
Yeah, I think that uh revolvers, uh if you do carry
four concealed, you know, ittakes a lot more watching, you
know, situational awareness, inmy opinion, is that you know
coming from the looking back atmy military career whenever I
was in uh M16A1, which was afull automatic version, and then
(21:19):
they decided they were gonna goto the three-round version of
model and get rid of the fullauto to get rid of the in the
atmosphere of the semi-auto andthe revolver topics that
revolvers you have to be moreintense specific on your target,
(21:42):
it takes a little bit morepractice with it, but it
eliminates that I've got 15rounds.
I'm just gonna pull the triggerand spring print, as we used to
call it in military.
I just think the the revolver,you know, if you practice with
it, uh you can actually reloadfairly quickly with the speed
(22:04):
loader or stream loader.
Yeah, your semi-auto is gonnaload a little bit more, you're
gonna have more rounds, but it'sgonna make you more intent on
focusing on your uh sightpicture and target than just uh
yanking on that trigger in astress situation and then
loading 15 rounds that will hitwho knows where.
(22:30):
What uh you have any thoughts onon that?
SPEAKER_00 (22:33):
Yeah, if you if you look at the armed citizen
defense side, what do weconstantly hear?
The typical defensive shootingis what?
Three rounds, three yards andthree seconds, right?
That's about by the time by thetime the second, you know, 1000,
2000, pretty much the victor isdetermined in that.
(22:56):
So capacity in that particularinstance to me gives you can
give a little bit of that forthe ability to rapidly deploy
it, and the the ability toconsistently rapidly deploy it.
Um one of the things I like todo, and I I got this from Wayne
(23:18):
Dobbs, is when I'm briefing aclass, I I have everybody, you
know, look, hey, look around ateverybody.
We are at pistol gun fightdistance, just a little over an
arm's length, right?
Yeah.
For the for the the typicalconcealed carry role.
Like pistol fight distance isconversation distance.
So a revolver can really bedeployed quickly in that uh
(23:42):
without having to move covergarments and and um do a whole
lot else.
You can deploy it prettyrapidly.
Um so that for me is where ittakes a huge benefit.
And I have the absolute fastestrevolver reload that that you
can time, and it's called haulanother revolver out and don't
(24:04):
worry about reloading the firstone.
Um and that's another place thatrevolvers kind of hold a special
meaning to me is uh there is nomagazine.
So well, there is technically,but um but as far as capacity,
get another revolver and theability to carry two, say one in
(24:28):
each front pocket, or one in ajacket pocket and one in a pants
pocket.
Um you have some uh you know,you have some flexibility there
to uh and an added layer ofsafety with that longer, heavier
trigger pull.
It's pretty deliberate to makeone of those go off.
So having two of them on yourperson is a little even I won't
(24:52):
say less to manage, but it'seasier to manage than most
people would think.
SPEAKER_01 (24:56):
And I have a question go along with what you
just said, Brian.
Um you talked about carrying tworevolvers.
So would you think that thatwould be a better way to go than
maybe carrying a revolver andspeed loaders?
Um, I guess if so, then youknow, kind of your thoughts on
that.
SPEAKER_00 (25:13):
So if if I'm going to let's say I'm going to a
place that's uh maybe capacityunfriendly, a state that even
with Liosa, there might be somequestion as to well, can I have
a 10-round magazine or aneight-round magazine or uh this
(25:34):
or that you know, or I'm uh I'mgoing somewhere that my apparel
will not allow me to put on asemi-auto pistol and conceal it
very well, and I know you'regonna get hate mail.
Well, buy this holster and youcan do whatever.
Um my response to that is okay,gunfighter, you do you.
(25:56):
Uh, but if I've got to wear likea sport jacket, something like
that, yeah, it's I can okay, Ican strong side conceal that
fairly well.
But what happens when my splitsport jacket, my Colt Commander,
pops out of the back of it?
Does that offend people that arearound you and maybe get you
asked to leave wherever you'reright?
So if I can drop a revolver in apocket and then drop another
(26:20):
revolver in a jacket pocket,right?
It's pretty pretty invisible,uh, especially with a compact
revolver.
And then if the need arises fora reload, I have another
delivery system for it.
And if I've got a speed strip ortwo, I mean I'm sorry, if you're
if you're hauling two revolversout, you have probably selected
(26:44):
where your life is taking youpoorly, right?
If you're going to revolvernumber two, you might you might
want to think about whatrestaurants you're going to eat
at or something.
Like, right, is it really worthit?
But uh, but typically when Icarry one, I'll carry uh like
(27:05):
I've got an older model 13 andan appendix rig from JM, and
then I'll carry a J-frame in mypocket or some type of snub in
my pocket, a Ruger LCR.
And then I've generally got aspeed strip, an eight-round
speed strip that's spaced 246,so I can reload either gun if I
needed to.
Now, granted, that's prettythat's a pretty niche thing.
(27:26):
That's a pretty low priority, orI won't say low priority, but
low um low in the law ofaverages.
But uh and generally, if I canappendix carry a revolver, I
could probably appendix carry anauto.
But I still like to have arevolver in the pocket because
man, lifting your shirt up andhauling a semi-auto out kind of
(27:50):
gets people's attention versusman, I may not need to use this,
but at least I got my hand on itand I'm ready to.
That's that's to me is where itpays huge dividends.
So hope I answered that for you.
SPEAKER_01 (28:06):
Yes, sir.
Um so another question I've got.
So with all the uh now you gotthe hammerless revolvers out
there.
I know it's not necessarilytraditional, but um, a lot of
people I see are going to those.
I see them a lot in gun stores.
What's your thoughts on those?
Um, do would you even recommendthem?
What kind of what are theirtheir, I guess, areas where they
(28:28):
might be more useful than atraditional hammered revolver?
SPEAKER_00 (28:34):
It most of the guns that I carry have an enclosed
small small ones, have anenclosed shrouded hammer or a
concealed hammer.
Um, and that's two reasons.
One, it's not gonna snag onanything, and two, you're not
gonna get debris into the gun.
I do have a bodyguard model 49there uh that I don't carry it.
(28:59):
It's 401k gun, right?
Uh, and they have a hammerthat's exposed in between the
the trout of the of uh theframe.
I really prefer for businessguns uh formats like the Smith
442-642 or the Ruger LCR that'sin completely sealed up because
(29:22):
uh Brian's probably been at apolice range when they inspect
your gun and somebody gets anair hose out and you blow about
four pounds of pocket lint outof them.
It's it's a thing, uh, but alsoit they're pretty snag proof.
Um so I I like that particularformat on guns that have a
(29:45):
hammer spur that are businessguns and not 401k guns.
I prefer to have the hammer spurcut and for two reasons.
One, snag, right?
Unless it's a collector's piece,right?
But you're just showing off atthe the little barbecue or
whatever, but um but make themdouble action only.
(30:08):
And the reason I say that isthen there is no question that
if you fired the gun, it wasdeliberate, right?
Right, and you're gonnaimmediately eliminate the well,
he cocked the gun and didn'tmean to fire it, or chi or
cocked the gun and and it had ahair trigger.
(30:28):
Well, if you disable.
The single action ability.
Yeah, that there was 14 poundsof reasoning behind why I fired
there 12 pounds or whatever itis of reason and time to think
this over as I'm pressing it.
So I'm a proponent of of onrevolvers double action only.
(30:50):
There's there's really no reasonto shoot them single action.
SPEAKER_02 (30:54):
Right.
Yeah, and if you buy a secondhand or get one handed down,
I've seen uh people that don'tknow the gun, don't know,
especially if it's been handeddown or bought at a pawn shop or
something, uh used if you knowthey don't know any type of
trigger work that's been done onit or any specialty work if they
are don't expect that long heavydouble action trigger pull or
(31:18):
that uh even that uh lightersingle action pull.
Make it lighter.
(31:44):
I wonder if they're workingtouching the trigger.
And uh wow, that's a realsensitive gun just for him to uh
shoot or something like that.
But uh I I I'm not a proponentmyself really of getting a whole
(32:09):
lot of specialty work becausethen you open yourself up for a
lot of liability with if you areinvolved in something to bring
in questions, and that's wedon't want that in a
self-defense uh incident.
SPEAKER_00 (32:23):
Yeah, I I I subscribe to the on a pistol,
your trigger should weigh aminimum of double what that gun
weighs.
That's just kind of an easyrule, right?
If it's fully loaded and itweighs two and a half pounds, we
want to have a four and a halfto five and a half pound
trigger.
And there is some companies inthe industry that don't
(32:50):
subscribe to that, but to eachhis own.
Um that's why and typically youknow, I I carry in retirement
the the gun I probably carry themost is a Glock 42 380, and it's
got a front sight that's beenreplaced.
That's it.
And it's got about a four and ahalf five-pound trigger, and uh
(33:16):
I I don't have any issuewringing steel at 50 yards with
it if I need to.
It's just um I I'm not a realproponent of business guns,
lightning triggers and and youknow, putting the super duper
competition match, this, that,and the other.
It's like keep it simple.
Um if nothing else, for youryour own safety.
(33:40):
So you've got a little extralayer of forgiveness if you do
something semi-sorta wrong,right?
Right.
Um, and that's the the thingwith revolvers is you know,
would would you carry asemi-auto with a four-pound
trigger in your pocket with noholster?
Everybody look at you like it'sludicrous, right?
(34:00):
Yeah.
Could you throw a revolver in anempty pocket if you went to go
get your mail and and prettywell be assured that as long as
there's nothing else in there,you're you're you're reasonably
safe doing so.
Right, yeah.
Yeah, I mean, yeah.
Um to me, the only thing uh likeyou were talking about hammer
spurs.
The only thing a hammer spursgood for is to like ease the
(34:23):
hammer back a little bit andspin the cylinder and make sure
I don't have a high primer.
That's about it.
SPEAKER_01 (34:29):
That pretty much answered the next question I
had.
Um, but with that being said, soyou would never no, that's
great.
Um with that being said, so younever see an opportun see a
place where you would actuallyneed a single action trigger
pull.
SPEAKER_00 (34:45):
Just one.
If you're carrying a RugerVacero or a Ruger Red Hawk or
Blackhawk or something likethat, that's single action only,
then you absolutely have to.
But Colt Single Action Army, butas the name implies, uh it's but
but that they're you know, Idon't see care people carrying
those for defensive work outsideof like you know hikers in
(35:09):
Montana and Alaska and thingslike that, where having a gun
with the hammer down that'sphysically unable to fire if
it's you know getting knockedaround in a pack or something.
But even there, I mean, look atthe Ruger Alaskan series, you
know, they named it after theplace and and their heavy boar,
(35:29):
large caliber.
Um but as far as single actionshooting, I just on a
double-action revolver, I I Idon't see a need for it.
Uh, there might, you know, maybeif you had a double-action
silhouette gun built up orsomething, but in the defensive
context, it's it's pretty wellcompletely unnecessary.
(35:51):
I kind of think if somebody'sfar enough away that you need to
make a precision shot with a arevolver in the armed citizen
context, that means they're farenough away you could probably
run.
Right.
Um that's now I mean, there'sagain, there's exceptions to
everything.
Could you end up in somescenario where that might be
(36:14):
necessary?
Yes, but distance equals time.
So there's uh you know, there'sjust not a lot I can see where
there's a benefit to it, and Isee a lot more negatives on
that.
Uh, number one being typically adouble action revolver, if you
cock it and put it in a singleaction mode, will not shoot to
(36:35):
the same place it will doubleaction, or vice versa.
Right.
So yeah, it's it's kind ofunnecessary.
SPEAKER_03 (36:43):
Okay.
SPEAKER_00 (36:44):
Yes, sir.
I I agree with that one.
SPEAKER_02 (36:49):
Uh what kind of drills do you uh kind of
encourage uh or think uh arevolver carrying person should
uh practice with?
Um kind of be proficient forboth accuracy as well as uh
defensive shooting.
Uh what are some drills that youthink that they should practice
(37:11):
on?
SPEAKER_00 (37:12):
Uh I like Justin Dial's five-yard roundup.
Uh now you're gonna have toreload in there, but it's
everything's a two and a halfsecond par time.
Okay, and it's uh one from theholster in two and a half.
(37:32):
Uh four rounds from a low readyin two and a half seconds, and
then with a five-shot revolver,68, you're gonna need to reload.
And then it's three shot stronghand only, three shots off gun
hand only, and and all of thosephases are two and a half
seconds.
So it's 10 rounds, two and ahalf.
You set up timer to a two and ahalf second par time.
(37:53):
That's a really good one.
Uh, if you're for if you're newat a revolver, I really like uh
if it's not a rim fire, uh, whatLarry Mudget calls skip loading,
which is put around in it, spinthe cylinder, and then close it.
Don't whip it close.
That'll break it.
Uh but close it and roll throughthe trigger.
(38:17):
Open the cylinder, spin thecylinder, close it, roll through
the trigger, and get get intothe press trigger or roll the
trigger and don't move the gun.
Um, and then when you fire ashot, okay, now I open the
cylinder, I put anothercartridge in, spin it to where
I've got five empty or fourempties or five empties in it,
(38:38):
and one live round, and thenwork up to where I can roll
through that cylinder, and whenthe shot goes, uh it should go
to its intended location.
That'll get you into thediscipline of of rolling a
revolver trigger and not stagingit.
Uh, that's just a practiceexercise, and I'm giving that
away for my class at uh bigtech's ordinance in a couple
(38:59):
weeks here.
Uh but that's that's how I liketo practice with them.
You remember the military's dimewasher drill?
Yeah.
You can start out with a firedcase or a uh you know with an
empty gun and roll the revolvertrigger and try to keep a keep
something on the front side oron the barrel or something to
(39:20):
that effect.
That's a that's a really uh gooduh training method.
There's the super snubby test,which uh I ran this two days ago
with a uh the new Kimber K6ultra light, whatever um six
shot hammerless revolver.
(39:42):
And I gotta say I might have toget one of those, but uh but
it's uh gosh, Greg Elfritz justposted it.
It's uh 10 10 yards, it's fiverounds in 12 seconds.
Uh you go to five yards, you'reshooting freestyle, two-handed
(40:02):
on the gun, it's it's fiverounds and five seconds.
And then you go strong hand onlyat three yards, and it's five
rounds and three seconds.
I'd do if I'm not missing threeand a half.
Um, it's kind of a modificationof the hit super test.
Um with five round and six-roundguns, I like to set part times
(40:24):
at about one shot per secondonce you get proficient.
Um before that, I like one roundevery two seconds, something
like that.
But um yeah, like there's justthere's a ton of revolver
exercises out there.
Unfortunately, a lot of them areholdovers from police training
where it's a 50-roundqualification session, and it's
(40:46):
like, you know, break somepieces of that up, and and uh I
I tend to not practice reloadsunder time with a revolver
because like I said, my answeris haul another revolver out,
right?
That's that's the the the mostreliable reload there is for a
revolver.
(41:07):
Um speed strips, speed loaders,I I prefer speed strips, but uh
mainly because they take up lessspace, so easier to hide.
SPEAKER_02 (41:22):
Yeah.
Yeah, those uh speed loaders uhkind of bulge out a little bit
if you're carrying it in apocket and stuff, uh especially
if you're carrying a typicaljean pocket instead of a jacket
or something like that.
SPEAKER_00 (41:37):
Yeah, and if I'm wearing a jacket during the
winter time, I'll carry speedloaders in a jacket pocket on
the same side as the gun.
And then I'll carry maybe one ortwo on the other side.
Um just so you you know youyou've got the flexibility, but
and I I typically carry uh HKSor Comp 2 speed loaders.
SPEAKER_02 (42:00):
So I'm partial to the HKS being coming from the
law enforcement side.
That's typically what wetypically carry the where I
worked at when I carried arevolver.
So yeah.
I was uh listening what a drillthat I kind of adapted, and I
was listening to you and Waynetalk in the uh other a couple
(42:20):
weeks ago on the podcast withthe drills, uh favorite drills
that law enforcement adopted uhone that I I like that's uh good
for both semi-auto and revolverin its thing.
I run it twice and run it as areload.
(42:41):
So I'll put it in five.
Uh if it's in a semi-auto, I'llput five rounds in each magazine
and shoot the the drill, reload,and then shoot the drill again.
Uh just to incorporate work inthat reload and then also doing
it in a revolver.
So five rounds that most of yourexcuse me.
(43:02):
Your revolvers are capable ofunless you have a larger frame,
uh six-round cylinder.
But uh, and then reload howyou're reloading, whether it's
strips or speed loaders, andthen you got that um the target
(43:22):
acquisition and the little bitof movement that you're doing
from the two-inch to thesix-inch circle.
And um uh that's one that I Ipractice quite a bit.
And I even in my classes,whenever I do advanced, I really
push that that drill justbecause it incorporates so many
things in in one drill.
SPEAKER_00 (43:42):
Yeah.
Yeah, there's there's tons of ofgood revolver exercises, and I I
you know, I subscribe to theRangemaster newsletter and Greg
Elefrit's uh uh active responsetraining, uh his knowledge dump,
(44:02):
get on his email list, and youknow, he links, he does a
weekend knowledge dump everyweekend, and there's generally
there's something on revolversin there.
There's a Facebook post or anexercise or an article or
something that he links to, oruh he wrote up one on the super
snubby test here a while back,and and uh that's another which
(44:26):
unfortunately I don't have it infront of me, and I don't shoot
it very often uh unless it's arevolver day, and then I
typically pull it up on my phoneand I I was looking, I couldn't
find the link.
I can't, it's the part times,everything's in groups of five,
and it's a 15-round deal.
Uh, but that one is a reallygood barometer of skill on a B8
(44:48):
repair center.
Uh tends to be one of myfavorites because it's pretty
easily scorable, and it'schallenging, but at the same
time, it'll tell you kind ofwhere you're at with shooting a
revolver um pretty pretty quick.
So um, and that that supersnubby doesn't involve any
(45:12):
reloads, but it's a good balanceof speed and accuracy.
And um accuracy is king,regardless of what anybody tells
you.
It's you know, speed's all good,but accuracy is what what
finishes fights and what stopsbad people from doing bad
things.
SPEAKER_02 (45:32):
So gotta hit your target to stop the threat.
SPEAKER_00 (45:38):
Not only that, you gotta hit it in the right spot.
Right.
Handguns, uh a 38 special that's0.357 is about the size of a uh
uh what is it, 355, 356, 357.
It's like a drill bit, man.
It's just gonna punch a hole.
(45:59):
Um all the hollow pointtechnology in the world doesn't
doesn't do you a thing if youshoot somebody in the ankle.
Right.
Um so you know the B8 RepairCenter, if you haven't heard on
the podcast before, there's onejust over my right shoulder
right there.
Uh that's about the size of thetarget.
Daryl Balkey says a grapefruitor a large orange in in the high
(46:23):
center chest is about where youneed to be all the time.
Right.
Um, even ipsicazones are alittle too forgiving on the
elevation side.
Uh it kind of extends down thereinto Wayne calls it the goodles,
right?
And I've I've interviewed a lotof gut shot felons, a lot of
(46:46):
them.
And it's, you know, a lot oftimes it wasn't even a fight
stopper.
So uh that B eight repaircenter, the black of that B8
repair center is just to me islike the perfect target.
Um I've been on that for five orsix years.
Um it it really holds youaccountable.
(47:06):
So I do 99% of my practice onone of those right there.
SPEAKER_02 (47:10):
So well, uh, if somebody wanted to reach out to
Brian or things that you'reinvolved in, uh, how would they
uh where would they look and howwould they contact you or the
things that you're involved?
SPEAKER_00 (47:25):
Uh well I'm on the Facebooks.
Uh my page is private, uh, butEDC Belt Company, we have a
Facebook page and I I monitorall the the correspondence
there.
Uh if you ping an email there,it pings to me.
So uh that's that's one way uh Ido most of my class.
If I'm gonna do a classadvertisement, it goes out there
(47:48):
as well.
Uh the off-duty on-duty podcast,again, if you ping that one for
a question or something, thatgoes to me.
I forgot to mention in thepre-show, or I actually have a
Patreon page.
That was the other, that was thehat I couldn't remember.
For three dollars a month, I doeverything from training tips to
how to take apart and maintainyour revolvers.
(48:09):
Uh, some custom work, uh I dosome 1911 stuff because that's
kind of on the rise again, andthere's a lot of people that
forgot it's a hundred andtwelve-year-old technology, you
need to learn how to maintainit.
Uh it's the equivalent ofdriving a stick shift, you know.
Um then if you message me there,like I said, I I have to charge
(48:36):
something for that because itit's pretty time consuming.
But three bucks a month, and I Ieven do it where if you want to
send in a request, I'll I'll digsomething up.
The uh uh off-duty, on duty, edcbuilt company, patreon, and
that's that's pretty much it.
I took down my my training pagebecause I just wasn't doing much
(49:01):
with it.
Um and it was it was just anextra layer.
And then on Instagram, I amBrian with a Y, not I, all one
word underscore.
And it's that one I put I Idon't do much training stuff on
that one, it's just post uppictures of you know where I've
been and what we're doing.
(49:22):
So, you know, post somehistorical revolver stuff.
And uh yeah, and then I'm doinga lot of work with Darryl Bulky.
Um, he has hardwired integratedtactical shooting or hits um on
Facebook.
So if we do a class, it'susually there, you'll you'll
(49:42):
ping it there.
So that's the five ways you canget a hold of me.
SPEAKER_02 (49:49):
Okay.
And if anybody was actually youknow wanting to hear some
training knowledge from you, Iknow that uh each year the last
couple years you've beenteaching out at the Guardian
conference, which is this month.
And that would be uh I haven'tbeen to one of those yet, and I
really want to uh try to make uhin the next year or so make a
(50:09):
trip out to one of those.
SPEAKER_00 (50:12):
Yeah, that one's coming up uh middle of the month
here.
I think in what is today?
Today's the fourth, so it's inlike 11 days.
Um 11 or 12 days, I can'tremember.
I gotta be there a day early andstay stay through that Monday.
So yeah, it's the 15th, 16th,17th, so 11 days away.
(50:34):
Um and that's uh the nice partabout that conference, and I'd
I'll I'll if you don't mind metalking about it a little bit.
Yeah, and this is not ashameless plug for come train
with me.
Uh we have a a whole host ofinstructors, uh, guys like Eric
Gellhouse, who is a gunsightrange master for like the last
(50:57):
20 years.
He's written the gun sight reddot optics training protocols
and a lot of that.
Uh fan, probably the mostunknown and absolutely best
trainers on the face of theplanet.
Uh, and I don't say thatlightly.
Uh, he is a friend of mine, butseriously, if you get a chance,
(51:19):
he's got Cougar MountainSolutions is the name of his
company.
So when he's not working atGunsight, he goes on the road
and teaches uh red dot red dotlow light vehicle stuff.
I mean, a lot of LEO centricstuff, but uh I went through his
red dot instructor course, andthat was probably one of the
best investments I've ever made.
(51:42):
And um because it was a trueinstructor development, it
wasn't just uh shoot a bunch ofdrills and go home and everybody
high five.
It was a lot of in-depth stuff,and um that uh he'll be there at
the conference.
So you have like four hours ofaccess to the guy, or if you
(52:03):
take two classes from him, likeeight hours of time that you can
you can interact with him.
Wayne Dobbs doesn't do a wholelot of open enrollment training
anymore.
Um he's got one coming up inGranbury, Texas in November, but
it's very he does very limitedamount of access to that guy,
and he'll be there.
(52:23):
Uh, of course, Riley Bowman,Mickey Shook, Carrie Trainer.
But the biggest thing I Iappreciate about that conference
is breakfast, lunch, and onseveral nights, dinner is
covered.
So, you know, we got sponsorsthat cater in a dinner like two
of the three nights.
(52:44):
Um you've got lunch is deliveredon site.
Breakfast, they've got like ajuice bar and you know, just
snacks for breakfast.
But you know, if you think aboutthe logistics of going to a
conference and okay, I've got topay for a place to stay, pay for
how to get there, and I gottapay for chow nine meals, ten
(53:07):
meals while you're there.
I mean, think of the costsavings of that.
Right.
Um and EDC Belt Company, we sellwe sell belts out there at a
little discounted rate, andthere's ammo for sale out there.
I mean, it's it's the total kindof self-contained conference.
SPEAKER_02 (53:23):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (53:25):
So I recommend it if you if you get a chance.
And and it's like you know, ages21 to 80, and all points in
between and all skill levels,and uh it covers a pretty bought
broad base.
And then next year I'm teachingat Rangemaster TacCon, but it's
sold out in like 12 minutes thisyear.
(53:46):
So if you're not in on that one,you're not gonna get on on it
until 2024.
And uh yeah, Tom invited me toteach there this year and then
again next year, so I'll bedoing a block there.
Um and then I've got uh bigtech's ordinance.
If you're in the Texas area, uhOctober 21st, I'm doing a
(54:08):
one-day practical revolverskills course that you know,
bring what you got, and it'sit's it's gonna be kind of just
a broad brush overview of ofrevolvers for eight hours, and I
think it's 225 bucks with therange fee.
Uh, guy named Alex Sanson, thesuited shootist, is hosting
(54:30):
that, and he's doing all the adsand money and all that for me.
So uh, and I have I I've taughtthat class like twice for
private gigs.
I've never done it openenrollment, and I've always
vetted all the students before Idid it.
And this time I'm I'm I'm I gotthrown a curveball, so I'm gonna
(54:52):
do my best to knock it over thefence.
SPEAKER_02 (54:54):
So okay.
You got anything, David?
You wanna ask?
SPEAKER_01 (55:00):
I think I'm good.
SPEAKER_02 (55:02):
Well, one of the questions that uh we are gonna
start asking this year for allof our guests, uh, what's a
hobby or something you do forrelaxation?
I would say away from yournormal job and everyday routine,
but uh since you're in that uhretirement but still working
phase, uh what do you do forrelaxation?
(55:22):
What's your your favorite thingto do?
SPEAKER_00 (55:24):
Oh man.
That's that's a bit of a loadedquestion, man.
Um I really have grown fond oflike traveling.
That sounds kind of cliche, butfor the last 25 years, uh
traveling was kind of a mess forme, and I never really liked it.
(55:48):
Uh but I don't guess that's ahobby because most of the
traveling I'm doing isgun-centric stuff.
So I try to build in some timethere to do to do something
else.
Right.
Um my dear friend Daryl Bulkeyand I went to Lake Havasu back
in January, and I was like, wow,I can walk around and not carry
a gun and feel just fine.
(56:08):
This is cool.
Um other than that, like I Iplay guitar.
That's that's kind of one of mydeals.
And then uh my my gal and I, ourour favorite pastime is pick
some eclectic restaurant or uhyou know, fine dining
establishment.
(56:29):
And like once a month we try togo and like okay, this is not
something we would normally doon a Tuesday, but we're gonna go
to this real high-end steakhouseand see what that's about.
So that's yeah, that's funtimes.
SPEAKER_02 (56:42):
And I know that it doesn't sound like a hobby, but
it it's it's just kind of aguilty pleasure of mine that we
do, but yeah, well, well, thingsto all of us are are different.
We're in unique individuals, soyou know we we all have our own
favorite thing that we like, orthat kind of gives us that
(57:03):
reprieve from reality, I guess.
And uh yeah, mine's uh uhlistening to music or you know,
even even though I do thetraining, uh uh range therapy is
always great.
SPEAKER_00 (57:18):
Yeah, the range for me is a workout in business now.
So it it's not as much of ahobby.
So I kind of look at going tothe range as like going to the
gym.
Um, and then I do somegunsmithing work, and I know
like all those only two of thoseare not gun-centric, but I
(57:38):
really enjoy like shutting thedoor on the shop.
My dad and I have a littlegunsmith shop, shutting the door
on the shop, turn the AC on,turn music up, and do something
meaningful, you know, customizea 1911 or work on a revolver or
fix something that's been brokenfor a hundred years.
(57:59):
I mean, that's uh that's prettyrewarding.
Um I've got a couple of you knowprojects that I like to work on,
or I think I was set tiredtelling you I did a Haney McMood
handed me a 1931 Colt and says,Can you put a cart barrel in
this and do this and put thisbeaver tail and this hammer and
(58:21):
these sites?
And I was like, Yeah, yeah, herewe go.
Do that, and that that's prettyrewarding, especially, you know,
we test fired it in Georgia, andI was like, Hey, it shoots
really good and it works reallywell.
And it just kind of resurrectedthis old gun, you know, gave it
a second life.
So yeah, that kind of stuff isis pretty fun.
SPEAKER_02 (58:45):
Okay, all right.
Well, uh Brian, I appreciate youjoining us and talking about
revolvers, and uh, I enjoyed theconversation and the time with
you, and uh uh maybe we mighthave you back uh on a future
podcast episode for anothertopic or revisit this one.
SPEAKER_00 (59:03):
1911s, bring me back for 1911s, and I'll yeah, it's
the one thing I know more thananything else about.
SPEAKER_02 (59:10):
So yeah.
Okay.
All right.
Well, thank you for joining us,and uh as always, y'all remember
the motto learn, train, andsurvive.
The views and opinions expressedin this podcast are those of the
host and the guest, and do notnecessarily reflect the views
and opinions of the podcastpublisher, its affiliates, or
(59:31):
any other entity.
The information contained inthis podcast is for
entertainment purposes only andshould not be construed as
medical, legal, or financialadvice.
The podcast publisher and itsaffiliates assume no
responsibility for anyliability, loss, or damage
caused by the use of informationcontained in this podcast.
Listeners are advised to consultwith a qualified professional
(59:53):
before making any decisionsbased on the information
contained in this podcast.
Hi, welcome to the Armed Guardian Podcast, season
one, episode four.
Today, David and I will betalking with Brian Eastridge,
the Eastridge Training andConsultant LLC.
Our topic for today's podcastwill be revolvers.
Are they still a valid concealtheory weapon for conceal theory
in the rise of semi-automatics?
(00:20):
So sit back, enjoy, and listento today's podcast, and here we
go.
Hi, welcome to the ArmedGuardian Podcast.
I'm your host, Brian, and uh wehave David here.
And we've got a guest today thatuh a topic that some people say
is a little outdated forconcealed carriers with the uh
(00:41):
advent of semi-automatics.
Uh Brian Eastridge, he's here tojoin us and talk to us about
revolvers and are they stillvalid for the concealed carrier?
How are you doing, Brian?
SPEAKER_00 (00:52):
Doing great.
Thanks.
Thanks for having me on.
SPEAKER_02 (00:56):
Thanks for joining us.
Uh so who is Brian Eastridge andwhat do you do?
SPEAKER_00 (01:03):
Well, I wear a number of hats.
Um let's see.
I guess I the main gig I have isuh I'm co-owner of EDC Belt
Company.
So we make a concealed carrybelt.
It's kind of purpose-built forthe armed citizen.
Uh, you know, it's it'sreinforced where it needs to be
(01:26):
and it's uh nice and comfy whereit uh should be.
So that was a project of minethat was born out of years of
wearing a Sam Brown duty beltand chronic sciatica and all
those things.
And I figured out uh throughafter a vacation that it really
wasn't my duty belt that wascausing all those problems.
(01:46):
It was uh it was a uh particularconcealed carry belt.
So uh I started that in 2019.
Uh sell them through ourwebsite, through uh
langdontactical.com.
Ernest and Amy sell them, andthen uh Concealed Carry Inc.
sells them as well.
So yeah, that's kind of my maingig.
(02:11):
And then I have another LLC,it's Eastridge Training and
Consulting.
I do some firearms industryconsulting at times.
Uh do some open enrollmenttraining, very little anymore.
I just don't have time.
Uh I do enjoy it, but uh thelast couple years I've I've just
(02:31):
haven't had the time to do it.
So I mainly teach at likeconference type stuff, and then
I'll do one or two openenrollments a year, but teaching
at like the Guardian Nationconference, uh, and then the Pat
Rogers Memorial Revolver Roundupat Gunsight.
I teach there every year, andyeah, that's a fun one if you
(02:52):
get a chance.
I think there's like five or sixspots left for that this year.
Wow and it's it's in November,it's the weekend before
Thanksgiving, and uh it's agreat hang.
And it's just learn a lot ofrevolver history and talk to
some armed professionals thathave carried them and how they
train with them that whole nineyards.
(03:13):
And then I have the off-dutyon-duty podcast, and uh this
time of year that one kind ofslows down because this is kind
of the busy season through aboutDecember.
So I try to get one out a month.
Sometimes I get one out everytwo weeks.
Um a lot of good guests onthere.
Everybody from Rob Latham toHaney McMood to Gerald Bulky's
(03:36):
been on a bunch, and EricGellhouse, some other guys that
um uh Lee Weams has been on acouple of times, our mutual
buddy.
And that's that's kind of it.
Now that I've retired from lawenforcement, I seem to be busier
than I ever was when I was acop.
SPEAKER_02 (03:54):
So yeah, always works out like that.
SPEAKER_00 (03:57):
Everybody told me that, and I was like, nah, I'm
gonna work like two, three daysa week, and then man, my phone
started ringing and it hadn'tstopped.
SPEAKER_02 (04:04):
So yeah, I I like your podcast, uh, on duty,
off-duty, because youincorporate the view from both
worlds, uh, the law enforcementperspective and then the
concealed carrier's perspective.
So uh I really like that, and Ithink I got David uh attached uh
(04:24):
in love with it also, uhrecommended it to him and uh uh
a good one.
Uh like like what you do onthat.
SPEAKER_00 (04:32):
Well, it was when that was hashed, you know, the
producers and I talked about it,and they said, we want you to do
the cop and concealed carrierperspective.
And I said, I can sum that up inlike two sentences, like you
know, citizens aren't under anyobligation to put handcuffs on
anybody.
Right.
Ta-da, done, you know, and it'slike, no, come on.
(04:54):
But anyway, that was and Ithat's see, that's been going I
was two years in July.
So remember it was two or three,so yeah, two years ago, July.
SPEAKER_02 (05:09):
So all right.
Well, we'll go ahead and jumpinto some of our topic questions
that we have here.
Um one thing I get uh peoplecoming to a lot of the classes
that I teach is a lot of peoplebring for the favorite is the
(05:29):
semi-automatic pistol.
I get one of the favoritemultiple revolver and things
like that.
Um I think revolvers still havea valid primary uh concern for
the concealed carrier as aprimary weapon to carry.
(05:49):
And there are some issues thatwith the revolver that you know
gender and age and stuff likethat, I know play a part in, but
uh uh are are revolvers stillvalid for CCW in the world of
semi-automatics.
SPEAKER_00 (06:05):
Under some circumstances, I think they're
they kind of pay an advantage.
SPEAKER_03 (06:11):
Right.
SPEAKER_00 (06:12):
Um but I I think they're a little more I won't
say neat, I don't want to sayniche, but they they kind of fit
two things.
For carrying them every day,they're kind of niche.
For a fire extinguisher at home,yeah, they fit they fit that
role so well.
Right.
Uh, and that's that's reallywhere I think they they live
(06:36):
until you get to a certain pointin training and understanding of
methodologies that that that youcan really take an advantage
from them.
SPEAKER_02 (06:45):
Right.
Yeah, I know one of the thingsthat I see and with the
industry, uh, I'll see a lot ofthe elderly that will come to
classes and the gun shops orpawn shops, you know.
Hey, you you're just looking forsomething to throw in a purse or
a knife stand and a revolversimply just press the trigger or
(07:10):
pull the trigger, as theyusually say.
But uh people come that uh havea problem with that 12-pound
trigger press on the doubleaction, and you don't really
want them to carry or present itin a single action mode unless
you know they really know whatto do and because of the
(07:30):
potential for negativedischarge.
So that's one of my concernswith the I don't want to cover
the gun industry as a whole, butyou know, for the ones that are
looking to kind of push offstuff that don't really invest
the time into getting the gun tothe carrier for the person
(07:52):
that's wanting to buy it.
Um but I've also had some issueswith some of the I won't name
the brand, but uh some of thesemi-autos that have group
safety for um elderly peoplethat were they just ripped the
gun hard enough to deactivatethe safety fire semi-automatic.
So it's kind of a I think it's adouble-edged sword, but um I
(08:16):
think you can feel uh revolversare a good option.
Uh definitely for a uh backup ifyou decide you want to carry a
backup, uh, and then for thehome defense, I think that it
really fits in well with them.
SPEAKER_00 (08:31):
Yeah, and I I think the industry as a whole, there
are very few um like point ofsale.
I the you go above that todistributor level, they they're
not dealing with the customer.
You go above that to the the themanufacturers, they have a
(08:52):
pretty good understanding oflike what makes revolvers great.
Um unfortunately, revolvers wereborn out of a time when skilled
labor was cheap and engineeringwas expensive, and now that role
has kind of flipped.
Um, where you know theengineering side of the house,
(09:13):
you know, solid works, man.
That that's the programeverybody's using to design
stuff nowadays, and it's a lotmore attainable than it was in
1909 and prior.
unknown (09:28):
Right.
SPEAKER_00 (09:28):
Uh, but but skilled labor in that era was cheap, you
know.
I I have a real love forpre-1939 revolvers, and they're
works of art, but somebody wasmaking uh you know a dollar an
hour to make to build those, youknow, or 50 cents an hour.
Right, those days are gone.
Uh so but your end gun shopsalespeople don't really have a
(09:53):
good idea uh because let's faceit, the people that are working
those roles, unless it's youknow a part-time gig or you
know, somebody that's older,retired, wants a job, they're
typically not very high-payingjobs, and they're typically
staffed by people that grew upwith the Glock 19.
unknown (10:12):
Right.
SPEAKER_00 (10:13):
And and that's not a that's not a knock at that that
generation or that that uh enduser.
And there are some exceptions tothat.
I mean, there are exceptions toeverything.
Uh, but a lot of you know, a lotof the younger generation now
you hand them a revolver andthey look at it like a Rubik's
Cube.
Um and I'm actually kind of inthe young category for being
(10:36):
somebody that that has a prettydeep understanding of revolvers.
Um so that's that's kind of mytwo cents as to why that those
wires get crossed up.
And and I've had I've had somereally highly respected
instructors that are older thanme that you know, I say, Hey,
hey, you got any revolvers?
Do you want to have a wheel gunday?
(10:56):
I don't I don't reallyunderstand revolvers, never shot
them.
Right, you know, and these arepeople in their 50s, and it's
like, oh man, and unless youwere in law enforcement, yeah,
the semi-auto pistol, I mean,even the military adopted it
back in the the teens.
So so it's uh the LE world wasslow to get on the auto bus, but
(11:17):
you know, that's been like theagency I worked for transitioned
to autos in 1990, you know.
1990 was well quite a long timeago now.
Yeah.
So thirty thirty some years ago.
SPEAKER_02 (11:33):
Yeah.
And something too, people youknow, understanding revolvers
are the different frame sizes,you know, like the J frame, the
L frame, the N frame, and stuff,and just you know, what's the
difference in them?
Because you know, someone likeme with the or a person with a
large hand, a J frame revolveris can be a little bit of a
(11:55):
challenge to handle uh comparedto the N-frame and K and uh L
frame models.
SPEAKER_00 (12:02):
Yeah, but the benefit you have is a wide
variety of stock options, right?
I'm not talking about SP 500.
I'm like the actual stocks onthe gun, right?
The grips.
Um you know, you can tailor arevolver way, way more than you
can tailor a semi-auto.
A semi-auto, you know, you'reyou've got the options of burn
(12:22):
it with a soldering iron or slaptape on it, right?
SPEAKER_03 (12:25):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (12:26):
Um some of the newer modern semi-autos, they like the
HK VP9 has a lot of modularityto it, but even that degree of
modularity doesn't really changethe reach to the trigger, which
is the critical one.
Right.
Um and J-frames, to me, they fitthey fit a really specific role,
(12:48):
and uh and it's one that mostpeople in training will not
explore because uh let's faceit, there's only maybe 10,
15,000 people in the wholeUnited States that quote go take
training above you knowsomething very basic.
SPEAKER_02 (13:06):
So David, you want to ask the next question?
SPEAKER_01 (13:11):
Yes, sir.
Can you all hear me all right?
Yeah.
All right, Brian.
So with all the many differentcalibers out there for
revolvers, um, I know a lot ofpeople are using them now for
hunting and many differentdifferent areas of of the
firearms world.
Which one would you recommend?
Or what do you like, or maybe afew of them?
SPEAKER_00 (14:02):
Well, um, for small and medium frame revolvers, if
you're gonna buy a revolvertoday, just buy a 38 special.
Um, there's no need to shoot 357Magnum unless you're hunting
bears or something, you know.
I mean, it 357 is justpunishing.
Uh 38 special, you can practicewith a lighter downloaded
(14:27):
cartridge.
You can carry a plus P.
But if you're gonna get a barrellength below uh like three
inches, just get standardvelocity 38 special.
There's really no benefit goinganything hotter than that if
you're going below three inchbarrels.
But 38 to me is probably themost versatile that's out there,
(14:47):
and that's mainly because youhave a wide variety.
You can go a very light bulletvery fast with very low recoil,
or you can go a medium bulletwith medium recoil, or you can
go a really heavy bullet andhurt yourself.
I mean, it's just and all pointsin between.
Um ammunition-wise, 38 specialis probably the most affordable
(15:08):
and it's the easiest to findversus you know 44 mag, 44
special, 32 HR, stuff like that.
Um but yeah, 38 special, and andI tell people if you've got if
you've got an interest inrevolvers, they made something
like 12 million K-frame modeltens and MPs, which is your you
(15:30):
know, medium frame, K-frame,Smith and Wesson specifically.
Um they've made like a they madethem since 1899.
They're in ever like there's aused one in every gun shop in
America.
They can typically be had for500 or less dollars.
And just if that's what you wantto learn, then you know, Model
(15:53):
64, Model 10, uh, Model 13s or357 mag chambered.
The reason I discourage peoplefrom going and jumping in the
357 mag pool is if you go toyour local gun shop and the
salesman that looks at arevolver like a Rubik's Cube
sees 357 Magnum on the side,what ammunition is he gonna try
(16:14):
to sell you?
357 mag, right?
And you're gonna shoot it sixtimes and go, I'm never touching
that again.
Versus if you say, I want a 38special, and the salesman says,
Oh, well, here's a 357 mag, andyou can shoot either one.
Well, now you you're talking tosomebody that's at least
somewhat informed.
(16:36):
But yeah, I really recommend geta medium frame 38 special and
and invest the time there.
Learn learn it there, and uh youcan you can go smaller or larger
from there, right?
Make sense?
SPEAKER_01 (16:54):
Yes, sir.
And that kind of leads me to Iguess when you mentioned uh the
different sizes um as far as thebarrel length.
Uh I know I've seen snub nose upto eight inches, and there may
be even some bigger.
I'm not sure.
I'm not as familiar withrevolvers as probably you are.
But do you recommend one size inparticular?
Are there different situationswhere one size might be better?
(17:15):
Um your thoughts on that?
SPEAKER_00 (17:18):
Yeah, so for the quasi-arm professional, a
three-inch or a three and a halfinch barrel, that is like the
gunfighter length, right?
It's uh I've got like fivethree-inch model tens and some
in-frame 27s that are three anda half inch.
Because they're the perfectbalance and you get a
(17:38):
full-length ejector rod.
And people are like, what do youmean by that?
Well, if you go to a snub, therod will not is not long enough
to fully extract the cartridges.
So a three-inch gun, you can youcan fully unseat the the spent
cartridges, um, which isimportant if you're gonna carry
(17:58):
that uh in a quasi-professionalmanner.
Um the pocket snub is is one ofmy favorites.
Um got a couple of friends thatthat's that's saved their bacon.
Um and the ability, as my goodfriend Daryl Bulkey has has kind
of coined a term, with a snubrevolver in a pocket holster,
(18:22):
you know, on your strong side,you can casually stand there and
not alarm anybody and have yourhand fully in a firing grip on a
on a gun that you can deliver inunder a second.
And uh, you may have seen thevideos.
Daryl and me and a guy namedRett Niemier, we've all we've
all demoed that.
(18:42):
And uh the funny part of that isyou know, for the semi-auto
community that spends aninordinate amount of time trying
to get below a subsecond draw tofirst shot, uh, you know, with
moving pieces and all that, it'slike we can throw a sucker punch
from the pocket and be there inabout a half second.
And I'm not saying that's agreat primary role, but uh Daryl
(19:06):
Coined it is covered low ready.
So it's everything's concealedand covered, but I'm I'm I'm
ready to act.
And it doesn't look sociallyoffensive to people if you're
standing there with your hand inyour pocket.
So uh I think that's a reallyvalid method.
And for that, you need that subthat two inch or less barrel,
(19:28):
um, and generally a pretty lightrevolver, uh, which are not the
most pleasant to shoot.
But fortunately, in that format,what seems to be the best
functioning ammo is either yourlead semi-wide cutter at
standard velocity or your 148grain target wide cutter.
And there's some really goodcompanies out there that are
(19:50):
making very consistent ammothat's loaded just a touch above
what match ammo would be loadedfor.
Uh, like Curtis Shipley at GAArms makes a wide cutter that'll
run 750 feet per second out ofan inch and seven eighths inch
uh Smith and Wesson J frame.
And that that round is purposebuilt as a defensive round.
(20:12):
Um and it everything we see, itflat works.
It's like it it's solid.
Um and you can if you're areloader, you can kind of mimic
that and download it a littlebit and be easier on your wrists
and and everything else.
So that's kind of the two barrellinks I recommend.
(20:32):
But like I said, if you're juststarting out on a revolver, a
four-inch old, I call them theold cop service guns, a four a
four-inch Model 10 64, 65, uhRuger GP, something like that.
Um, I mean they're they're stillreasonably affordable and and a
four-inch barrel you can do justabout anything with.
SPEAKER_02 (20:55):
Yeah, I think that uh revolvers, uh if you do carry
four concealed, you know, ittakes a lot more watching, you
know, situational awareness, inmy opinion, is that you know
coming from the looking back atmy military career whenever I
was in uh M16A1, which was afull automatic version, and then
(21:19):
they decided they were gonna goto the three-round version of
model and get rid of the fullauto to get rid of the in the
atmosphere of the semi-auto andthe revolver topics that
revolvers you have to be moreintense specific on your target,
(21:42):
it takes a little bit morepractice with it, but it
eliminates that I've got 15rounds.
I'm just gonna pull the triggerand spring print, as we used to
call it in military.
I just think the the revolver,you know, if you practice with
it, uh you can actually reloadfairly quickly with the speed
(22:04):
loader or stream loader.
Yeah, your semi-auto is gonnaload a little bit more, you're
gonna have more rounds, but it'sgonna make you more intent on
focusing on your uh sightpicture and target than just uh
yanking on that trigger in astress situation and then
loading 15 rounds that will hitwho knows where.
(22:30):
What uh you have any thoughts onon that?
SPEAKER_00 (22:33):
Yeah, if you if you look at the armed citizen
defense side, what do weconstantly hear?
The typical defensive shootingis what?
Three rounds, three yards andthree seconds, right?
That's about by the time by thetime the second, you know, 1000,
2000, pretty much the victor isdetermined in that.
(22:56):
So capacity in that particularinstance to me gives you can
give a little bit of that forthe ability to rapidly deploy
it, and the the ability toconsistently rapidly deploy it.
Um one of the things I like todo, and I I got this from Wayne
(23:18):
Dobbs, is when I'm briefing aclass, I I have everybody, you
know, look, hey, look around ateverybody.
We are at pistol gun fightdistance, just a little over an
arm's length, right?
Yeah.
For the for the the typicalconcealed carry role.
Like pistol fight distance isconversation distance.
So a revolver can really bedeployed quickly in that uh
(23:42):
without having to move covergarments and and um do a whole
lot else.
You can deploy it prettyrapidly.
Um so that for me is where ittakes a huge benefit.
And I have the absolute fastestrevolver reload that that you
can time, and it's called haulanother revolver out and don't
(24:04):
worry about reloading the firstone.
Um and that's another place thatrevolvers kind of hold a special
meaning to me is uh there is nomagazine.
So well, there is technically,but um but as far as capacity,
get another revolver and theability to carry two, say one in
(24:28):
each front pocket, or one in ajacket pocket and one in a pants
pocket.
Um you have some uh you know,you have some flexibility there
to uh and an added layer ofsafety with that longer, heavier
trigger pull.
It's pretty deliberate to makeone of those go off.
So having two of them on yourperson is a little even I won't
(24:52):
say less to manage, but it'seasier to manage than most
people would think.
SPEAKER_01 (24:56):
And I have a question go along with what you
just said, Brian.
Um you talked about carrying tworevolvers.
So would you think that thatwould be a better way to go than
maybe carrying a revolver andspeed loaders?
Um, I guess if so, then youknow, kind of your thoughts on
that.
SPEAKER_00 (25:13):
So if if I'm going to let's say I'm going to a
place that's uh maybe capacityunfriendly, a state that even
with Liosa, there might be somequestion as to well, can I have
a 10-round magazine or aneight-round magazine or uh this
(25:34):
or that you know, or I'm uh I'mgoing somewhere that my apparel
will not allow me to put on asemi-auto pistol and conceal it
very well, and I know you'regonna get hate mail.
Well, buy this holster and youcan do whatever.
Um my response to that is okay,gunfighter, you do you.
(25:56):
Uh, but if I've got to wear likea sport jacket, something like
that, yeah, it's I can okay, Ican strong side conceal that
fairly well.
But what happens when my splitsport jacket, my Colt Commander,
pops out of the back of it?
Does that offend people that arearound you and maybe get you
asked to leave wherever you'reright?
So if I can drop a revolver in apocket and then drop another
(26:20):
revolver in a jacket pocket,right?
It's pretty pretty invisible,uh, especially with a compact
revolver.
And then if the need arises fora reload, I have another
delivery system for it.
And if I've got a speed strip ortwo, I mean I'm sorry, if you're
if you're hauling two revolversout, you have probably selected
(26:44):
where your life is taking youpoorly, right?
If you're going to revolvernumber two, you might you might
want to think about whatrestaurants you're going to eat
at or something.
Like, right, is it really worthit?
But uh, but typically when Icarry one, I'll carry uh like
(27:05):
I've got an older model 13 andan appendix rig from JM, and
then I'll carry a J-frame in mypocket or some type of snub in
my pocket, a Ruger LCR.
And then I've generally got aspeed strip, an eight-round
speed strip that's spaced 246,so I can reload either gun if I
needed to.
Now, granted, that's prettythat's a pretty niche thing.
(27:26):
That's a pretty low priority, orI won't say low priority, but
low um low in the law ofaverages.
But uh and generally, if I canappendix carry a revolver, I
could probably appendix carry anauto.
But I still like to have arevolver in the pocket because
man, lifting your shirt up andhauling a semi-auto out kind of
(27:50):
gets people's attention versusman, I may not need to use this,
but at least I got my hand on itand I'm ready to.
That's that's to me is where itpays huge dividends.
So hope I answered that for you.
SPEAKER_01 (28:06):
Yes, sir.
Um so another question I've got.
So with all the uh now you gotthe hammerless revolvers out
there.
I know it's not necessarilytraditional, but um, a lot of
people I see are going to those.
I see them a lot in gun stores.
What's your thoughts on those?
Um, do would you even recommendthem?
What kind of what are theirtheir, I guess, areas where they
(28:28):
might be more useful than atraditional hammered revolver?
SPEAKER_00 (28:34):
It most of the guns that I carry have an enclosed
small small ones, have anenclosed shrouded hammer or a
concealed hammer.
Um, and that's two reasons.
One, it's not gonna snag onanything, and two, you're not
gonna get debris into the gun.
I do have a bodyguard model 49there uh that I don't carry it.
(28:59):
It's 401k gun, right?
Uh, and they have a hammerthat's exposed in between the
the trout of the of uh theframe.
I really prefer for businessguns uh formats like the Smith
442-642 or the Ruger LCR that'sin completely sealed up because
(29:22):
uh Brian's probably been at apolice range when they inspect
your gun and somebody gets anair hose out and you blow about
four pounds of pocket lint outof them.
It's it's a thing, uh, but alsoit they're pretty snag proof.
Um so I I like that particularformat on guns that have a
(29:45):
hammer spur that are businessguns and not 401k guns.
I prefer to have the hammer spurcut and for two reasons.
One, snag, right?
Unless it's a collector's piece,right?
But you're just showing off atthe the little barbecue or
whatever, but um but make themdouble action only.
(30:08):
And the reason I say that isthen there is no question that
if you fired the gun, it wasdeliberate, right?
Right, and you're gonnaimmediately eliminate the well,
he cocked the gun and didn'tmean to fire it, or chi or
cocked the gun and and it had ahair trigger.
(30:28):
Well, if you disable.
The single action ability.
Yeah, that there was 14 poundsof reasoning behind why I fired
there 12 pounds or whatever itis of reason and time to think
this over as I'm pressing it.
So I'm a proponent of of onrevolvers double action only.
(30:50):
There's there's really no reasonto shoot them single action.
SPEAKER_02 (30:54):
Right.
Yeah, and if you buy a secondhand or get one handed down,
I've seen uh people that don'tknow the gun, don't know,
especially if it's been handeddown or bought at a pawn shop or
something, uh used if you knowthey don't know any type of
trigger work that's been done onit or any specialty work if they
are don't expect that long heavydouble action trigger pull or
(31:18):
that uh even that uh lightersingle action pull.
Make it lighter.
(31:44):
I wonder if they're workingtouching the trigger.
And uh wow, that's a realsensitive gun just for him to uh
shoot or something like that.
But uh I I I'm not a proponentmyself really of getting a whole
(32:09):
lot of specialty work becausethen you open yourself up for a
lot of liability with if you areinvolved in something to bring
in questions, and that's wedon't want that in a
self-defense uh incident.
SPEAKER_00 (32:23):
Yeah, I I I subscribe to the on a pistol,
your trigger should weigh aminimum of double what that gun
weighs.
That's just kind of an easyrule, right?
If it's fully loaded and itweighs two and a half pounds, we
want to have a four and a halfto five and a half pound
trigger.
And there is some companies inthe industry that don't
(32:50):
subscribe to that, but to eachhis own.
Um that's why and typically youknow, I I carry in retirement
the the gun I probably carry themost is a Glock 42 380, and it's
got a front sight that's beenreplaced.
That's it.
And it's got about a four and ahalf five-pound trigger, and uh
(33:16):
I I don't have any issuewringing steel at 50 yards with
it if I need to.
It's just um I I'm not a realproponent of business guns,
lightning triggers and and youknow, putting the super duper
competition match, this, that,and the other.
It's like keep it simple.
Um if nothing else, for youryour own safety.
(33:40):
So you've got a little extralayer of forgiveness if you do
something semi-sorta wrong,right?
Right.
Um, and that's the the thingwith revolvers is you know,
would would you carry asemi-auto with a four-pound
trigger in your pocket with noholster?
Everybody look at you like it'sludicrous, right?
(34:00):
Yeah.
Could you throw a revolver in anempty pocket if you went to go
get your mail and and prettywell be assured that as long as
there's nothing else in there,you're you're you're reasonably
safe doing so.
Right, yeah.
Yeah, I mean, yeah.
Um to me, the only thing uh likeyou were talking about hammer
spurs.
The only thing a hammer spursgood for is to like ease the
(34:23):
hammer back a little bit andspin the cylinder and make sure
I don't have a high primer.
That's about it.
SPEAKER_01 (34:29):
That pretty much answered the next question I
had.
Um, but with that being said, soyou would never no, that's
great.
Um with that being said, so younever see an opportun see a
place where you would actuallyneed a single action trigger
pull.
SPEAKER_00 (34:45):
Just one.
If you're carrying a RugerVacero or a Ruger Red Hawk or
Blackhawk or something likethat, that's single action only,
then you absolutely have to.
But Colt Single Action Army, butas the name implies, uh it's but
but that they're you know, Idon't see care people carrying
those for defensive work outsideof like you know hikers in
(35:09):
Montana and Alaska and thingslike that, where having a gun
with the hammer down that'sphysically unable to fire if
it's you know getting knockedaround in a pack or something.
But even there, I mean, look atthe Ruger Alaskan series, you
know, they named it after theplace and and their heavy boar,
(35:29):
large caliber.
Um but as far as single actionshooting, I just on a
double-action revolver, I I Idon't see a need for it.
Uh, there might, you know, maybeif you had a double-action
silhouette gun built up orsomething, but in the defensive
context, it's it's pretty wellcompletely unnecessary.
(35:51):
I kind of think if somebody'sfar enough away that you need to
make a precision shot with a arevolver in the armed citizen
context, that means they're farenough away you could probably
run.
Right.
Um that's now I mean, there'sagain, there's exceptions to
everything.
Could you end up in somescenario where that might be
(36:14):
necessary?
Yes, but distance equals time.
So there's uh you know, there'sjust not a lot I can see where
there's a benefit to it, and Isee a lot more negatives on
that.
Uh, number one being typically adouble action revolver, if you
cock it and put it in a singleaction mode, will not shoot to
(36:35):
the same place it will doubleaction, or vice versa.
Right.
So yeah, it's it's kind ofunnecessary.
SPEAKER_03 (36:43):
Okay.
SPEAKER_00 (36:44):
Yes, sir.
I I agree with that one.
SPEAKER_02 (36:49):
Uh what kind of drills do you uh kind of
encourage uh or think uh arevolver carrying person should
uh practice with?
Um kind of be proficient forboth accuracy as well as uh
defensive shooting.
Uh what are some drills that youthink that they should practice
(37:11):
on?
SPEAKER_00 (37:12):
Uh I like Justin Dial's five-yard roundup.
Uh now you're gonna have toreload in there, but it's
everything's a two and a halfsecond par time.
Okay, and it's uh one from theholster in two and a half.
(37:32):
Uh four rounds from a low readyin two and a half seconds, and
then with a five-shot revolver,68, you're gonna need to reload.
And then it's three shot stronghand only, three shots off gun
hand only, and and all of thosephases are two and a half
seconds.
So it's 10 rounds, two and ahalf.
You set up timer to a two and ahalf second par time.
(37:53):
That's a really good one.
Uh, if you're for if you're newat a revolver, I really like uh
if it's not a rim fire, uh, whatLarry Mudget calls skip loading,
which is put around in it, spinthe cylinder, and then close it.
Don't whip it close.
That'll break it.
Uh but close it and roll throughthe trigger.
(38:17):
Open the cylinder, spin thecylinder, close it, roll through
the trigger, and get get intothe press trigger or roll the
trigger and don't move the gun.
Um, and then when you fire ashot, okay, now I open the
cylinder, I put anothercartridge in, spin it to where
I've got five empty or fourempties or five empties in it,
(38:38):
and one live round, and thenwork up to where I can roll
through that cylinder, and whenthe shot goes, uh it should go
to its intended location.
That'll get you into thediscipline of of rolling a
revolver trigger and not stagingit.
Uh, that's just a practiceexercise, and I'm giving that
away for my class at uh bigtech's ordinance in a couple
(38:59):
weeks here.
Uh but that's that's how I liketo practice with them.
You remember the military's dimewasher drill?
Yeah.
You can start out with a firedcase or a uh you know with an
empty gun and roll the revolvertrigger and try to keep a keep
something on the front side oron the barrel or something to
(39:20):
that effect.
That's a that's a really uh gooduh training method.
There's the super snubby test,which uh I ran this two days ago
with a uh the new Kimber K6ultra light, whatever um six
shot hammerless revolver.
(39:42):
And I gotta say I might have toget one of those, but uh but
it's uh gosh, Greg Elfritz justposted it.
It's uh 10 10 yards, it's fiverounds in 12 seconds.
Uh you go to five yards, you'reshooting freestyle, two-handed
(40:02):
on the gun, it's it's fiverounds and five seconds.
And then you go strong hand onlyat three yards, and it's five
rounds and three seconds.
I'd do if I'm not missing threeand a half.
Um, it's kind of a modificationof the hit super test.
Um with five round and six-roundguns, I like to set part times
(40:24):
at about one shot per secondonce you get proficient.
Um before that, I like one roundevery two seconds, something
like that.
But um yeah, like there's justthere's a ton of revolver
exercises out there.
Unfortunately, a lot of them areholdovers from police training
where it's a 50-roundqualification session, and it's
(40:46):
like, you know, break somepieces of that up, and and uh I
I tend to not practice reloadsunder time with a revolver
because like I said, my answeris haul another revolver out,
right?
That's that's the the the mostreliable reload there is for a
revolver.
(41:07):
Um speed strips, speed loaders,I I prefer speed strips, but uh
mainly because they take up lessspace, so easier to hide.
SPEAKER_02 (41:22):
Yeah.
Yeah, those uh speed loaders uhkind of bulge out a little bit
if you're carrying it in apocket and stuff, uh especially
if you're carrying a typicaljean pocket instead of a jacket
or something like that.
SPEAKER_00 (41:37):
Yeah, and if I'm wearing a jacket during the
winter time, I'll carry speedloaders in a jacket pocket on
the same side as the gun.
And then I'll carry maybe one ortwo on the other side.
Um just so you you know youyou've got the flexibility, but
and I I typically carry uh HKSor Comp 2 speed loaders.
SPEAKER_02 (42:00):
So I'm partial to the HKS being coming from the
law enforcement side.
That's typically what wetypically carry the where I
worked at when I carried arevolver.
So yeah.
I was uh listening what a drillthat I kind of adapted, and I
was listening to you and Waynetalk in the uh other a couple
(42:20):
weeks ago on the podcast withthe drills, uh favorite drills
that law enforcement adopted uhone that I I like that's uh good
for both semi-auto and revolverin its thing.
I run it twice and run it as areload.
(42:41):
So I'll put it in five.
Uh if it's in a semi-auto, I'llput five rounds in each magazine
and shoot the the drill, reload,and then shoot the drill again.
Uh just to incorporate work inthat reload and then also doing
it in a revolver.
So five rounds that most of yourexcuse me.
(43:02):
Your revolvers are capable ofunless you have a larger frame,
uh six-round cylinder.
But uh, and then reload howyou're reloading, whether it's
strips or speed loaders, andthen you got that um the target
(43:22):
acquisition and the little bitof movement that you're doing
from the two-inch to thesix-inch circle.
And um uh that's one that I Ipractice quite a bit.
And I even in my classes,whenever I do advanced, I really
push that that drill justbecause it incorporates so many
things in in one drill.
SPEAKER_00 (43:42):
Yeah.
Yeah, there's there's tons of ofgood revolver exercises, and I I
you know, I subscribe to theRangemaster newsletter and Greg
Elefrit's uh uh active responsetraining, uh his knowledge dump,
(44:02):
get on his email list, and youknow, he links, he does a
weekend knowledge dump everyweekend, and there's generally
there's something on revolversin there.
There's a Facebook post or anexercise or an article or
something that he links to, oruh he wrote up one on the super
snubby test here a while back,and and uh that's another which
(44:26):
unfortunately I don't have it infront of me, and I don't shoot
it very often uh unless it's arevolver day, and then I
typically pull it up on my phoneand I I was looking, I couldn't
find the link.
I can't, it's the part times,everything's in groups of five,
and it's a 15-round deal.
Uh, but that one is a reallygood barometer of skill on a B8
(44:48):
repair center.
Uh tends to be one of myfavorites because it's pretty
easily scorable, and it'schallenging, but at the same
time, it'll tell you kind ofwhere you're at with shooting a
revolver um pretty pretty quick.
So um, and that that supersnubby doesn't involve any
(45:12):
reloads, but it's a good balanceof speed and accuracy.
And um accuracy is king,regardless of what anybody tells
you.
It's you know, speed's all good,but accuracy is what what
finishes fights and what stopsbad people from doing bad
things.
SPEAKER_02 (45:32):
So gotta hit your target to stop the threat.
SPEAKER_00 (45:38):
Not only that, you gotta hit it in the right spot.
Right.
Handguns, uh a 38 special that's0.357 is about the size of a uh
uh what is it, 355, 356, 357.
It's like a drill bit, man.
It's just gonna punch a hole.
(45:59):
Um all the hollow pointtechnology in the world doesn't
doesn't do you a thing if youshoot somebody in the ankle.
Right.
Um so you know the B8 RepairCenter, if you haven't heard on
the podcast before, there's onejust over my right shoulder
right there.
Uh that's about the size of thetarget.
Daryl Balkey says a grapefruitor a large orange in in the high
(46:23):
center chest is about where youneed to be all the time.
Right.
Um, even ipsicazones are alittle too forgiving on the
elevation side.
Uh it kind of extends down thereinto Wayne calls it the goodles,
right?
And I've I've interviewed a lotof gut shot felons, a lot of
(46:46):
them.
And it's, you know, a lot oftimes it wasn't even a fight
stopper.
So uh that B eight repaircenter, the black of that B8
repair center is just to me islike the perfect target.
Um I've been on that for five orsix years.
Um it it really holds youaccountable.
(47:06):
So I do 99% of my practice onone of those right there.
SPEAKER_02 (47:10):
So well, uh, if somebody wanted to reach out to
Brian or things that you'reinvolved in, uh, how would they
uh where would they look and howwould they contact you or the
things that you're involved?
SPEAKER_00 (47:25):
Uh well I'm on the Facebooks.
Uh my page is private, uh, butEDC Belt Company, we have a
Facebook page and I I monitorall the the correspondence
there.
Uh if you ping an email there,it pings to me.
So uh that's that's one way uh Ido most of my class.
If I'm gonna do a classadvertisement, it goes out there
(47:48):
as well.
Uh the off-duty on-duty podcast,again, if you ping that one for
a question or something, thatgoes to me.
I forgot to mention in thepre-show, or I actually have a
Patreon page.
That was the other, that was thehat I couldn't remember.
For three dollars a month, I doeverything from training tips to
how to take apart and maintainyour revolvers.
(48:09):
Uh, some custom work, uh I dosome 1911 stuff because that's
kind of on the rise again, andthere's a lot of people that
forgot it's a hundred andtwelve-year-old technology, you
need to learn how to maintainit.
Uh it's the equivalent ofdriving a stick shift, you know.
Um then if you message me there,like I said, I I have to charge
(48:36):
something for that because itit's pretty time consuming.
But three bucks a month, and I Ieven do it where if you want to
send in a request, I'll I'll digsomething up.
The uh uh off-duty, on duty, edcbuilt company, patreon, and
that's that's pretty much it.
I took down my my training pagebecause I just wasn't doing much
(49:01):
with it.
Um and it was it was just anextra layer.
And then on Instagram, I amBrian with a Y, not I, all one
word underscore.
And it's that one I put I Idon't do much training stuff on
that one, it's just post uppictures of you know where I've
been and what we're doing.
(49:22):
So, you know, post somehistorical revolver stuff.
And uh yeah, and then I'm doinga lot of work with Darryl Bulky.
Um, he has hardwired integratedtactical shooting or hits um on
Facebook.
So if we do a class, it'susually there, you'll you'll
(49:42):
ping it there.
So that's the five ways you canget a hold of me.
SPEAKER_02 (49:49):
Okay.
And if anybody was actually youknow wanting to hear some
training knowledge from you, Iknow that uh each year the last
couple years you've beenteaching out at the Guardian
conference, which is this month.
And that would be uh I haven'tbeen to one of those yet, and I
really want to uh try to make uhin the next year or so make a
(50:09):
trip out to one of those.
SPEAKER_00 (50:12):
Yeah, that one's coming up uh middle of the month
here.
I think in what is today?
Today's the fourth, so it's inlike 11 days.
Um 11 or 12 days, I can'tremember.
I gotta be there a day early andstay stay through that Monday.
So yeah, it's the 15th, 16th,17th, so 11 days away.
(50:34):
Um and that's uh the nice partabout that conference, and I'd
I'll I'll if you don't mind metalking about it a little bit.
Yeah, and this is not ashameless plug for come train
with me.
Uh we have a a whole host ofinstructors, uh, guys like Eric
Gellhouse, who is a gunsightrange master for like the last
(50:57):
20 years.
He's written the gun sight reddot optics training protocols
and a lot of that.
Uh fan, probably the mostunknown and absolutely best
trainers on the face of theplanet.
Uh, and I don't say thatlightly.
Uh, he is a friend of mine, butseriously, if you get a chance,
(51:19):
he's got Cougar MountainSolutions is the name of his
company.
So when he's not working atGunsight, he goes on the road
and teaches uh red dot red dotlow light vehicle stuff.
I mean, a lot of LEO centricstuff, but uh I went through his
red dot instructor course, andthat was probably one of the
best investments I've ever made.
(51:42):
And um because it was a trueinstructor development, it
wasn't just uh shoot a bunch ofdrills and go home and everybody
high five.
It was a lot of in-depth stuff,and um that uh he'll be there at
the conference.
So you have like four hours ofaccess to the guy, or if you
(52:03):
take two classes from him, likeeight hours of time that you can
you can interact with him.
Wayne Dobbs doesn't do a wholelot of open enrollment training
anymore.
Um he's got one coming up inGranbury, Texas in November, but
it's very he does very limitedamount of access to that guy,
and he'll be there.
(52:23):
Uh, of course, Riley Bowman,Mickey Shook, Carrie Trainer.
But the biggest thing I Iappreciate about that conference
is breakfast, lunch, and onseveral nights, dinner is
covered.
So, you know, we got sponsorsthat cater in a dinner like two
of the three nights.
(52:44):
Um you've got lunch is deliveredon site.
Breakfast, they've got like ajuice bar and you know, just
snacks for breakfast.
But you know, if you think aboutthe logistics of going to a
conference and okay, I've got topay for a place to stay, pay for
how to get there, and I gottapay for chow nine meals, ten
(53:07):
meals while you're there.
I mean, think of the costsavings of that.
Right.
Um and EDC Belt Company, we sellwe sell belts out there at a
little discounted rate, andthere's ammo for sale out there.
I mean, it's it's the total kindof self-contained conference.
SPEAKER_02 (53:23):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (53:25):
So I recommend it if you if you get a chance.
And and it's like you know, ages21 to 80, and all points in
between and all skill levels,and uh it covers a pretty bought
broad base.
And then next year I'm teachingat Rangemaster TacCon, but it's
sold out in like 12 minutes thisyear.
(53:46):
So if you're not in on that one,you're not gonna get on on it
until 2024.
And uh yeah, Tom invited me toteach there this year and then
again next year, so I'll bedoing a block there.
Um and then I've got uh bigtech's ordinance.
If you're in the Texas area, uhOctober 21st, I'm doing a
(54:08):
one-day practical revolverskills course that you know,
bring what you got, and it'sit's it's gonna be kind of just
a broad brush overview of ofrevolvers for eight hours, and I
think it's 225 bucks with therange fee.
Uh, guy named Alex Sanson, thesuited shootist, is hosting
(54:30):
that, and he's doing all the adsand money and all that for me.
So uh, and I have I I've taughtthat class like twice for
private gigs.
I've never done it openenrollment, and I've always
vetted all the students before Idid it.
And this time I'm I'm I'm I gotthrown a curveball, so I'm gonna
(54:52):
do my best to knock it over thefence.
SPEAKER_02 (54:54):
So okay.
You got anything, David?
You wanna ask?
SPEAKER_01 (55:00):
I think I'm good.
SPEAKER_02 (55:02):
Well, one of the questions that uh we are gonna
start asking this year for allof our guests, uh, what's a
hobby or something you do forrelaxation?
I would say away from yournormal job and everyday routine,
but uh since you're in that uhretirement but still working
phase, uh what do you do forrelaxation?
(55:22):
What's your your favorite thingto do?
SPEAKER_00 (55:24):
Oh man.
That's that's a bit of a loadedquestion, man.
Um I really have grown fond oflike traveling.
That sounds kind of cliche, butfor the last 25 years, uh
traveling was kind of a mess forme, and I never really liked it.
(55:48):
Uh but I don't guess that's ahobby because most of the
traveling I'm doing isgun-centric stuff.
So I try to build in some timethere to do to do something
else.
Right.
Um my dear friend Daryl Bulkeyand I went to Lake Havasu back
in January, and I was like, wow,I can walk around and not carry
a gun and feel just fine.
(56:08):
This is cool.
Um other than that, like I Iplay guitar.
That's that's kind of one of mydeals.
And then uh my my gal and I, ourour favorite pastime is pick
some eclectic restaurant or uhyou know, fine dining
establishment.
(56:29):
And like once a month we try togo and like okay, this is not
something we would normally doon a Tuesday, but we're gonna go
to this real high-end steakhouseand see what that's about.
So that's yeah, that's funtimes.
SPEAKER_02 (56:42):
And I know that it doesn't sound like a hobby, but
it it's it's just kind of aguilty pleasure of mine that we
do, but yeah, well, well, thingsto all of us are are different.
We're in unique individuals, soyou know we we all have our own
favorite thing that we like, orthat kind of gives us that
(57:03):
reprieve from reality, I guess.
And uh yeah, mine's uh uhlistening to music or you know,
even even though I do thetraining, uh uh range therapy is
always great.
SPEAKER_00 (57:18):
Yeah, the range for me is a workout in business now.
So it it's not as much of ahobby.
So I kind of look at going tothe range as like going to the
gym.
Um, and then I do somegunsmithing work, and I know
like all those only two of thoseare not gun-centric, but I
(57:38):
really enjoy like shutting thedoor on the shop.
My dad and I have a littlegunsmith shop, shutting the door
on the shop, turn the AC on,turn music up, and do something
meaningful, you know, customizea 1911 or work on a revolver or
fix something that's been brokenfor a hundred years.
(57:59):
I mean, that's uh that's prettyrewarding.
Um I've got a couple of you knowprojects that I like to work on,
or I think I was set tiredtelling you I did a Haney McMood
handed me a 1931 Colt and says,Can you put a cart barrel in
this and do this and put thisbeaver tail and this hammer and
(58:21):
these sites?
And I was like, Yeah, yeah, herewe go.
Do that, and that that's prettyrewarding, especially, you know,
we test fired it in Georgia, andI was like, Hey, it shoots
really good and it works reallywell.
And it just kind of resurrectedthis old gun, you know, gave it
a second life.
So yeah, that kind of stuff isis pretty fun.
SPEAKER_02 (58:45):
Okay, all right.
Well, uh Brian, I appreciate youjoining us and talking about
revolvers, and uh, I enjoyed theconversation and the time with
you, and uh uh maybe we mighthave you back uh on a future
podcast episode for anothertopic or revisit this one.
SPEAKER_00 (59:03):
1911s, bring me back for 1911s, and I'll yeah, it's
the one thing I know more thananything else about.
SPEAKER_02 (59:10):
So yeah.
Okay.
All right.
Well, thank you for joining us,and uh as always, y'all remember
the motto learn, train, andsurvive.
The views and opinions expressedin this podcast are those of the
host and the guest, and do notnecessarily reflect the views
and opinions of the podcastpublisher, its affiliates, or
(59:31):
any other entity.
The information contained inthis podcast is for
entertainment purposes only andshould not be construed as
medical, legal, or financialadvice.
The podcast publisher and itsaffiliates assume no
responsibility for anyliability, loss, or damage
caused by the use of informationcontained in this podcast.
Listeners are advised to consultwith a qualified professional
(59:53):
before making any decisionsbased on the information
contained in this podcast.
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