December 9, 2024 • 37 mins
Join us for an enlightening conversation as we welcome the remarkable Dr. Maggie Yu to the Art of Healing podcast. Dr. Yu, a distinguished physician and functional medicine pioneer, shares her incredible journey of overcoming a mysterious autoimmune disease that emerged after childbirth. Her transformative personal story led to the creation of the innovative Transform Protocol, offering new hope for those struggling with autoimmune conditions. Discover how Dr. Yu's experiences reveal the limitations of conventional medicine and the potential of alternative healing approaches, as we explore her insights into the root causes of autoimmune diseases.
Learn more about Dr. Maggie Yu here
Dr. Maggie Yu
We delve into the often-overlooked triggers of autoimmune diseases, especially those affecting women during hormonal transitions like postpartum and menopause. Uncover the hidden impact of superinfections such as COVID long haul and Lyme disease, which can wreak havoc on the immune system. Dr. Maggie also sheds light on the growing issue of toxic load and systemic inflammation, urging us to understand these underlying factors rather than merely seeking a diagnosis. This episode is packed with practical insights and offers a fresh perspective on why autoimmune diseases are on the rise and how we can tackle them more effectively.
Curiosity and mindset play a pivotal role in navigating chronic health challenges, as we discuss "Eight Out of the Box Ways" to approach autoimmune diseases.
Learn more about Dr. Maggie's book here:
8 Out of the Box
Dr. Yu emphasizes the power of personal growth and vulnerability in the healing process, drawing inspiration from thought leaders like Brené Brown and Dr. Gabor Maté. We encourage listeners to take the first steps towards reclaiming their health by seeking alternative perspectives and engaging with supportive communities. With gratitude and enthusiasm, we celebrate the energy and wisdom shared in this episode, aiming to empower our audience on their journey to wellness.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
Hello and welcome back to the Art of Healing
podcast.
I'm Dr Charlize and thank youso much for joining me for
today's episode.
I am very fortunate to bewelcoming a special guest for
today's podcast interview.
We will be getting to know DrMaggie Yu.
(00:22):
Dr Yu is a physician, a familypractice specialist and a
functional medicine practitionercertified who is highly
respected in family practice andgraduated from UCLA School of
Medicine.
She's been in practice for 25years.
Dr Yu is an author, a mother, ateacher, a speaker and a
(00:43):
thought leader.
Dr Yu has become a force to bereckoned with in the world of
functional medicine and herjourney has been anything but
ordinary.
Dr Yu's journey started withdeveloping a mysterious
autoimmune disease after havingababy.
After being diagnosed at theage of 36, dr Yu suffered
(01:04):
several debilitating medicalissues, including fibromyalgia,
early menopause, hashimoto's,chronic pain, depression, tmj
and mixed connective tissuedisease.
After battling her owndebilitating health challenges,
she recognized limitations ofconventional medicine.
This is what set her on aprofound journey that became a
(01:25):
personal experience that now hasshaped the way that she works
with the patients.
She has developed the TransformProtocol, which is an online
autoimmune chronic diseaseprogram which comprehensively
addresses disease at the rootcause.
The groundbreaking protocol hasnot only transformed her life,
but has also proven to be abeacon of hope for countless
(01:46):
others suffering from similarafflictions.
During our interview, I'm goingto be asking Dr Yu some
questions about how shenavigated the health system,
what brought her to where she isnow and, most importantly, what
the rest of us can do if shehad trouble navigating the
(02:06):
health system as a familypractice physician.
All right, let's get started.
Well, maggie, it is so nice tomeet you.
I'm so honored to have you onmy podcast and to introduce you
to my community.
Thank you so much for coming ontoday.
Introduce you to my community.
(02:27):
Thank you so much for coming ontoday.
Wonderful, I was reading aboutyou and your journey.
Where I wanted to start which,to me, has just been the most
profound thing, is that beforeyou became an author and a
teacher and a thought leader,you family medicine.
Yeah, you experienced your ownhealth challenges and you had to
look outside of conventionalmedicine.
I'm interested to know that, aphysician, what happened that
(02:51):
you could not find the answersand the healing you needed in
conventional medicine?
Speaker 2 (02:56):
I would say that it mirrors many of my colleagues,
probably including you as well.
I would say that we, asphysicians, become you as well.
I would say that we, asphysicians, become well.
Actually, any teacher becomesthe best teacher in our area of
greatest suffering.
So what happened to me was thatyou know I was.
I loved being a familyphysician.
(03:17):
I was a wonderful familyphysician.
I was really good at it.
I was a workhorse.
I was one of those people thatI would see 20, 30 patients
every day go home and chart six,seven hours and come back and
do it and come at me.
I became medical director ofour clinic.
I was teaching young familyphysicians and managing them in
a large practice or a largemedical group.
(03:37):
So after the birth of eachchild and as we talk more about
autoimmunity, you'll see whythis is a pattern During my
pregnancy and after the birth ofeach child, I developed more
and more chronic health mysterysymptoms that I couldn't answer.
I didn't even know what theywere, and it culminated so that
I had my first child at 30, mysecond at 33, and each
(03:59):
postpartum event brought me tomy knees and I didn't fully
recover from either.
I had C diff infection.
I had hair loss, weight gain, Ihad depression, brain fog, add
symptoms, depression, anxiety,and it didn't get better and it
culminated at the age of 36.
(04:19):
I went into full-blown earlymenopause where my FSH level
came back at the level of 80.
We all know what that means asphysicians.
So I was in medical menopause atthe age of 36, which is not
common, right.
But at the same time I wasbeing told by myself and my
colleagues and what I told otherpeople is oh, you don't need to
(04:41):
test your hormones If your FSHis 80, or if you haven't had
your periods for a year.
Your hormones, we know, are lowpostmenopausal, so why bother?
So I started getting doors shutat me with symptoms of chronic
pain, fatigue, brain fog, add,depression.
I mean I felt damn suicidal andit got to the point where my
(05:02):
health had taken such a blowthat it affected my career.
I mean I lost my job, I lost mymind and I lost my marriage.
Speaker 1 (05:14):
Whoa.
Speaker 2 (05:15):
Wow, when you are there, you don't have a choice.
I got to the place where Irealized doing anything
different would be better thanwhere I was at.
And yeah, and that, to me, waswhat really pushed me outside
the box, because, operating as apeak physician, peak performer,
trainer, teacher in that realm,I was in a system that didn't
(05:39):
answer the mysteries around myown health and home's own health
symptoms and the completedevastation, decline of my
professional and personal lifeand health.
So it didn't provide me theanswers.
It became my greatest area ofsuffering.
It became my charge and mymission.
I had to save my own life andthat's what triggered me to say,
hey, you know what?
(05:59):
I'm really smart and I couldput all my MD smarts how can I
apply that to learn maybe ahundred other tools to deal with
this very difficult to solvechronic health array of symptoms
.
So I put it together and Istarted to really look outside
the box, everywhere, anywhere,all the time, so I can figure
out how to save my own life.
That's how this started.
Speaker 1 (06:21):
So for the listeners, because most of my community
aren't physicians, but I guesswhat I'm.
What's kind of struck me isthat just you know for the
listeners to know that asphysicians, when we go in to see
a doctor, you know it's a mixedbag.
Sometimes we come in with anadvantage as far as we can speak
(06:42):
the language you know.
We can speak the language toour practitioner.
I know in my own experiencewhen I've had to see another
specialty, it depends.
Sometimes I can't speak theirlanguage, sometimes I'm just
kaput and I'll just say treat meas you would anyone else, cause
I can't think like that.
So I guess what I wondered inyour journey?
And you said you were gettingdoors closed on you.
So you, I mean typically whenyou're a physician, you say
(07:05):
doors closed on you.
So you, I mean typically whenyou're a physician, you say, hey
, I'd like to check my hormones,and you were being told no, you
don't need to, you're nothaving any periods.
Speaker 2 (07:11):
Your FSH is 80.
We know you're in menopause, soit would be post-menopausal
normal At 36?
.
That's what was gynecology.
My colleagues, these were myfriends.
Speaker 1 (07:26):
So what were you just supposed to walk off and be?
Speaker 2 (07:28):
like cool 20 years ago.
All right, I mean, I am 50, Iam 54.
This was 18, almost 20 yearsago, yeah.
And so doctors don't testhormones.
Even now, women and men andchildren are getting hurt, that
hormonal door slammed in theirface when they're dealing with
(07:48):
tons of complicated healthsymptoms and mental health
symptoms.
Still hasn't happened to learnthe difference of what.
What is actually what I meanwhen I say hormone balance
versus, you know, hormonereplacement therapy or just a
(08:11):
denial or medical gaslighting,right?
So for me, this whole ideaaround hormone balancing is
really critical.
At that time, oprah Winfrey didan interview with Suzanne Somers
and Suzanne Somers was, I think, she wrote a book and it was
all about bioidentical hormones,ivs and this and that, and
people thought she was nuts andpeople thought Oprah was nuts
(08:32):
for even promoting this, and soit was almost as if there was
like a waging war battle goingon at that time between
everybody should be on Premarinand fake progesterone, fake
hormones and horse hormones.
Oh, now all these studies arecoming out saying that's the
devil, and then Suzanne Summersand Oprah coming out saying it's
all about bioidentical hormonesand every grandma should be on
(08:54):
high doses of bioidenticalhormones.
It was like a waging battle.
So it was like a huge taboo,and so for me, even as a
physician, to go ask for myhormones to be tested.
It was as if I was asking forvoodoo or taboo medicine.
Wow.
Speaker 1 (09:10):
So and I hear what you say about you know this
happened some time ago, but Idon't actually feel that it's
changed in conventional medicine.
That's the point.
Yeah, I don't think it'schanged.
Nothing has changed there.
Speaker 2 (09:21):
Nothing has changed there, and so the amount of
misunderstanding around hormonesbetween doctors and patients is
astounding.
And I talk about this in thebook in the chapter about
hormones is that people don'trealize that there's little to
no true hormone experts outthere that understand what
(09:41):
hormone balance means and formental health, let's say whether
it's ADD, depression, anxiety,brain fog, right, any of right,
and every one of those symptomsthat I talk about and I deal a
ton with long haul POTS, mastcell activation, autoimmune
diseases but every single one ofthose symptoms have a basis in
hormones and a lack of hormonalbalance.
And the problem is then peoplecome from a podcast like this or
(10:07):
reading the book and they say,well then I need to go ask my
doctor to get my hormones testedor I need to get on
bioidentical hormones, but theproblem is there's a lack of
true hormone experts.
Because I talk about followingthe money.
It has been big businesses fornatural and functional medicine
(10:27):
doctors or just regular doctors,gynecologists, to say I'm a
hormone specialist and what theyreally are is they're a hormone
pellet mill.
Speaker 1 (10:39):
Yeah, so I have been curious about that because I've
had patients in and out of thoseprograms, in and out, and the
part that has always confused meis that they're not necessarily
better with their symptoms.
Speaker 2 (10:52):
Correct Getting bioidentical hormones, fake
hormones, doesn't mean yourhormones are balanced.
And then the problem is themain type of hormones that
people are getting is hormonepellets from quote unquote
hormone experts or functional ornaturopathic physicians.
And the reason for that isfollowing the money Every time.
If I, let's say, you're workingwith someone who's teaching you
(11:13):
the skills which is what we doI teach people.
Recognize what those patternsare, learn the skills to balance
your hormones, get all thetools of which.
Maybe you need hormones, maybeyou don't, okay, but even if you
did, it's very small amountsfor balancing, just so you guys
know.
So the problem is is that if youfollow the money, like most
doctors and whether you'reconventional or whether you're,
(11:33):
let's say, you're a hormoneexpert and you're a functional
medicine doctor or a naturopaththat insurance doesn't cover,
well, how do you make your money?
Right, you make your money bycharging a lot for your visits,
so it's time.
Or you make your money by salesof products and services that
give you a lot of cash flow, andhormone pellets give a lot of
cash flow.
So they're hundreds, even$1,000.
(11:56):
Every time you go in to gethormone pellets, you got to go
in and do it every three, sixmonths, depending what the
regimen is, and so it's like arecurring subscription cash cow
for the doctor's office and so alot of practices.
They don't want to spend timeteaching you the skills or
uncovering patterns.
Why don't I just get everysingle person into a pellet mill
where I can get a, you know,nurse, practitioner, physician
(12:19):
assistant, somebody else who'slower wages, lower expenditure
than hiring another physician oreducator or true instructor,
and just do pellets, pellets,pellets, pellets, so that people
get on pellets and they getcrazy ass.
High doses of thesebioidentical hormones that in
fact, is causing more problems.
Some people need what I callheifer doses of hormones.
(12:41):
Okay, most people don't.
They're getting way too muchhormones and it can actually
exacerbate the problem becausehormones turn into other
hormones and breakdown products.
So we're creating a systemwhere people will build up a lot
of these hormones and it istoxic to your health.
It is really taxing on yourliver.
It's really taxing on your gut.
(13:03):
It's really tasking on peoplewith autoimmune diseases,
mystery illnesses.
When you got this crazy assbuildup hormones and your liver
is struggling against that, itexacerbates conditions that we
call really commonly like fattyliver.
So this is like a hell stormwe're brewing in these hormone
pellet mills.
(13:23):
That is currently the standardof care.
Speaker 1 (13:25):
Yeah, yeah, that's everything you just said.
I loved it because, the wayI'll say it is, it's a balance.
We're looking for what worksfor you, but it does seem like a
lot of.
What I see is this excess justpiling on more and more and more
, and that's a conversation Ifrequently have in my practice.
Do we really need that much?
Speaker 2 (13:47):
No Microdosing.
Microdosing.
Speaker 1 (13:51):
It's true, and what I see in my own community.
It is exactly what.
I hadn't thought of it as likea pellet meal, but I see just
these mega doses, mega.
And then when I meet the person, they're still having a lot of
symptoms.
I think, well, you know, youknow, as a supplement helping
you.
So, maggie, I did want to askyou as an autoimmune expert.
(14:13):
I just happened to catch asound clip on the news several
days ago about the increasingincidence of autoimmune disease,
oh yeah.
And then I started doing asearch and, sure enough, kind of
got confirmation of that.
So I wanted to get your opinion, your expert opinion, on what
would be behind why we're seeingmore autoimmune disease.
Speaker 2 (14:36):
There's a seven to 11 fold increase over the last 60
years in autoimmune diseasediagnosis.
Some people are saying, oh,it's only because we're
diagnosing them more, havingmore tests to diagnose them.
That's not actually true.
So they've even done studieswhere they've taken blood
samples from people who were inthe military, like 60 years ago,
and blood samples from peoplein the military now, and the
(14:58):
presence of the amount ofantibodies meaning your immune
system attacking your own body,is up seven to 11 fold.
So it's not just we'rediagnosing it.
Better is that we aretriggering our immune system.
And the basis is this is thatyour immune system is there A
couple main roles.
One main role is to identify agerm outside your body.
So if you're a germ and I'mgoing to kill you.
(15:19):
Second role to identify in yourbody you're a cancer cell, you
don't belong here I'm going tokill you.
Third role is your immunesystem works as an allergic
system.
I'm allergic to you and I'mgoing to react and send
histamines and raise histamineslevels to trigger an allergic
reaction.
So those are some of the majorroles of the immune system.
(15:41):
And why has there been anincrease seven to 11 fold?
And why is it predominantly?
Also, why do women have atleast a four or five times
higher risk of having autoimmunediseases than men?
Number one we're gonna go rightback to what we just started
talking about is hormones.
We are having more and morehormonal exposures, imbalances
(16:01):
now than we ever have, and womenare more susceptible to
fluctuations in hormones thanmen, and women are having higher
and bigger fluctuation levelsthan they ever did for a wide
variety of reasons.
So I'm going to say thathormonal change and flux men,
(16:23):
women and children are at anepidemic rise and we are more
ill-equipped in dealing with itthan ever because the financial
pressures, the lack of educationand doctor's training that we
have.
So what I see is an epidemic of, for example, postpartum women,
women going through menopause,suddenly coming down with these
(16:45):
crazy health symptoms, and a lotof them don't even know it's
autoimmune.
And a lot of them don't evereven get diagnosed, because, in
my own experiences, 90% ofautoimmune diseases we can't
even diagnose because there's noblood tests that exist.
So, you just have chronicfatigue, you just have brain fog
.
You just have pain orneuropathy and holy hell, it's
autoimmune.
You just have pain orneuropathy and holy hell, it's
(17:09):
autoimmune.
These hormone changes actuallyturn on autoimmune attack.
Hormone changes turn onautoimmune attack.
I want everybody to write thatdown, if you remember nothing
else.
Hormone changes turn onautoimmune attack.
So if you think about all thedifferent times in your life,
whether you're a woman, man or achild, then you have vulnerable
periods of time when that willturn on any sort of genetics
(17:33):
that you have for autoimmunedisease.
And now not only hormone changes, but infections.
So if you have a superinfection like COVID long haul,
if you have Epstein-Barr, if youhave Lyme, there are super
infections that will irritateyour immune system and irritate
(17:53):
it so much that it starts toattack.
So we now know there'sadditional triggers, like the
infectious triggers are alsogoing up of these super
infections.
And then the third problem isthe lack of our ability to
detoxify our bodies, our livesand our minds.
So we build up toxic load,inflammation load in our body.
We're becoming incubator intanks for it.
(18:15):
It's not just our earth in anenvironment that's getting toxic
buildup.
Our bodies are becomingreservoirs of toxicity,
inflammation and autoimmuneattack.
Speaker 1 (18:31):
Thank you so much for shedding some insight on that
Cause.
I know that it was somethingthat I've witnessed and it was
one of those soundbites you hearon the news and I thought, whoa
, wait a minute, it must begetting to be pretty big if it
hit the five o'clock news.
Thank you so much for sharingthat Cause.
I think it's something we'd allbeen witnessing, so I did want
to ask you what would yourecommend as a first step?
(18:53):
If I am someone who isexperiencing what you survived
and I'm in the conventionalmedicine model and I'm not doing
well or I'm getting sicker,what would you recommend is the
first step I should do to startclimbing out of this?
I really wanted your opinion,particularly because you were a
physician who had to do this.
(19:14):
There's millions out there whoaren't physicians, so what would
be my first step to take to getgoing in the right direction?
Speaker 2 (19:24):
I love that question because a lot of people are out
there and they are listening tome say some really big words and
I want to shrink it down toreally small words that have big
impact, because the predominantaudience that it's in your
audience, in my audience as well, is and that's where our
symptoms so, really, when you'redealing, when struggling with
(19:46):
symptoms like chronic fatigue,brain fog, pain, insomnia,
anxiety, right Weight gain, hairloss, right Rashes, hives,
increasing allergic reactions,bowel problems Suddenly your
life is starting to be, you'regetting anxious even going out
or saying yes to things, becauseyou're wondering what's going
(20:07):
to happen to your body, likewhat it is is.
I think people are losing, areat a place where they have very
low amount of health certaintyin themselves.
Their body becomesunpredictable.
They don't trust themselves ortheir own body anymore.
This is the place of mostpeople that I am talking to
right now and that's the reasonwhy most of them are in your
(20:27):
audience or listening to thispodcast right now.
It's these symptoms and wherepeople get stuck is that they
get stuck in what's thediagnosis or who's the super
special, rare specialist that Ican find that's going to fix all
these symptoms, and I want tosay that that's the opposite of
(20:48):
what you should be doing is tokeep going and going to try to
find a diagnosis, because thediagnosis doesn't present itself
.
The diagnosis of these types ofsymptoms don't present a
solution.
When you're looking at complex,invisible, chronic symptoms,
the most important thing is toknow that there's multiple
(21:10):
different what's causing it?
The number one question weshould be asking is what's
causing this?
What's causing it, not what isthe diagnosis.
What can I name it as?
What's causing this problem?
Because if you know and you canfigure as what's causing this
problem, because if you know andyou can figure out what the
cause of this problem is, thenyou can fix it.
If you don't know causation,knowing the name doesn't really
matter.
Find the cause of it, and thenumber one step, first step,
(21:33):
that everybody here in theaudience can take is education,
which is what I did.
We don't take an educational,active, educational approach to
the fight for our lives.
We don't.
We take a passive, like we'recow to slaughter approach when
it comes to health I'm seriousLike we take sick care, factory
medicine, as if like, oh, we'rejust going to keep going down
(21:55):
that conveyor belt.
You got to jump off thatfricking belt because it is
killing you.
You're going to die as a resultof it.
They're not here to save you.
Get off that fricking conveyorbelt.
The first step is awareness.
I will not participate in thisconveyor belt, or I will
participate in this conveyorbelt to the degree that it
serves me, meaning like, if Ineed that doctor to order these
tests, if I do really need thatprescription, like that's the
(22:18):
conveyor belt route, right, andif that whatever aspects of that
that's helping your problem,great.
But that is not your.
That is not your Messiah.
Your Messiah is a differentpath.
The different path is numberone chapter in my book.
You got to lead with curiositywhy the heck is this happening?
What is this?
Who are the people that'ssaying something different about
(22:38):
this?
Who can I learn more from?
Right?
And so education is the firststep, right, first action step
that you take.
You're listening to this podcast, you're getting educated and
you're hearing an alternativepoint of view that doesn't exist
anywhere else.
So if you're listening to thispodcast, in the podcast notes
right now in the comment section, interact, say, tell, tell me,
(23:02):
tell, dr Davis, like, what aresome of the symptoms you're
dealing with?
What's going on?
What are some of your questionsMaybe you should question.
Maybe you think you know whatthe cause is and you should
question it.
Start a dialogue, because whathappens is when you start
connecting with people like DrDavis and myself, you start
connecting with our audiences inthe comment section, in our
communities, you are going tostart hearing different
(23:23):
approaches to this problem.
Example this podcast, greatresource to learn.
Another example my YouTubechannel.
I have, at the time thisrecording, 1,400 videos on there
on every topic you couldimagine, and I joke about it and
I'm like maybe people shouldstart asking about their
hemorrhoids and there might be avideo for that.
Speaker 1 (23:46):
Your blog is where I've.
I swam around in your blog,yeah, that's what you know.
After hours I like to read.
I love your blog.
The blog article I mean inlisteners in your show notes
there'll be links to every wayto reach Dr Nikki.
But I really enjoyed the blogs,yeah.
Speaker 2 (24:04):
Like Dr Davis, you learned.
Like the reason you're doingwhat you're doing right now and
you have a smile on your faceand you're passionate and
prolific at what you're doing isbecause you went outside the
box to learn something differentthan what you were medically
trained to do.
Speaker 1 (24:19):
Yeah Well, locally I'm the witch doctor locally.
Speaker 2 (24:22):
It's a joke here.
So yeah, I'm a witch doctorhere everywhere.
Speaker 1 (24:25):
Okay, I just want to have that hat on.
I'm a proud witch.
Speaker 2 (24:31):
The crystal caring is since burning internist, I have
a lot of my patients andclients call me magic Maggie.
Same idea Magic Maggie, drMagic Maggie.
And so for me I mean, look atyou.
What was the first step thatyou did to jump out of your lane
?
Speaker 1 (24:52):
It was education.
And I will say, as I wasreading your story because it
really the first thing and as Iwas reading through your blogs,
watching reviews, I thought thiswoman graduated from UCLA.
Guys, this is, I don't like to.
I hope you understand what I'msaying, maggie.
I don't like to categorizepeople, but if anyone could
(25:12):
contend with the medical system,it would be you.
Does that?
I mean?
You know, with your experience,you worked in it, you were the
medical system.
I mean, with your experience,you worked in it, you were the
medical system, and if you werescreaming for help, oh my gosh,
she couldn't do it.
My own health, thank goodness.
It wasn't so much my health, itwas curiosity, and it was the
(25:39):
same questions in my practice,coming back and back, and then
my natural curiosity that Istarted to listen to functional
medicine podcasts as a patient.
Yeah, yeah, it was curiosity.
I never thought it would bleedover into my practice.
I thought they would stayseparate.
Speaker 2 (25:53):
No, you can't.
Speaker 1 (25:55):
Once you see it, you can't unsee it.
You can't unsee it, and that'swhat I assumed is because
patients were asking me.
10 years before I even startedto look, they started to ask me
questions and I would thinkthat's weird.
I don't understand.
Then I started oh, this is whatthey're seeing.
Oh, my goodness, they're right,maggie.
Can we just let the listenersknow about your book?
Speaker 2 (26:13):
actually, going to do one up that I'm going to give
all your listeners a copy of thebook.
So in the show notes those ofyou guys that have made it
through this part of the podcastalready, I'm just letting you
know up front in the show notesthere's going to be a link where
you guys can get a free copy ofmy book, because I sure as heck
wants you guys to read thatfirst chapter called leading
with curiosity.
Speaker 1 (26:35):
Eight out of the box Cause.
That's where I think that wouldbe a perfect place to start for
those that are young.
Speaker 2 (26:42):
It's eight out of the box ways to transform your
health, and it is a seriesbecause my intent is to create a
series of eight out of the boxways to solve any any problem,
and I think about it in that way, and I love the number eight.
It's an infinity sign because Ithink that when you grow
people's minds right, when, whenyou grow people's minds and you
(27:03):
lead with curiosity, thatgrowth is infinite, the
potential is there, is infinite.
So I couldn't have dreamed thisfuture for myself 20 years ago
when I was on that bathroomfloor, but at the same time,
through curiosity, education andaction steps, taking action
over and over and over again,I'm here.
I'm here, and so what I didwith the book Eight Out of the
(27:26):
Box Ways was to put my eight topbest lessons that my clients
always tell me.
Like because we have, you know,client interviews all the time.
I love, like don't just take,listen to me.
We interview two to fourclients every single week that
are graduating from variousprograms that we have, so that
they can share their experience.
Because, to me, success leavesa strategy, not clues.
(27:49):
Success is a strategy, and so Iwant successful people and we
interviewed them.
And no matter what your healthproblem is.
You go on my YouTube channelPOTS dysautonomia.
No matter what your healthproblem is, you go on my YouTube
channel POTS dysautonomiaSjogren's.
You could have nearly died fromCrohn's Graves.
I've seen it, I've done it all.
I laugh at those.
I laugh at danger, right sothey're not hard, they're
(28:11):
solvable problems, and Iinterview people who have
successfully overcome them andshare how they did that, right.
So in the book I have tons ofcase studies from real people
about you know, I've worked withthousands, right, so those case
studies are great and they arealso the real people that are on
my YouTube channel forinterviews.
But I didn't think I was goingto be an author.
(28:31):
I always thought I'm a goodteacher.
I'm really good on video.
I can talk.
I don't know if I could write,and once I made that decision to
do that, because patients andclients were asking for it, I
realized you know what Iactually love to write.
I had to keep editing it down.
It's very long.
I think it's 278 pagessomewhere around there.
(28:53):
But I love to write and I dothink there's a lot of people
who like to read and on top ofit-.
Speaker 1 (28:58):
That's my personal learning styles reading, so
you're reaching people like me.
I would much rather read a bookthan yes.
Speaker 2 (29:04):
I'm about connection and I recognize there are people
who connect their reading.
So that's why the book waswritten, and I just finished
recording the audio book.
So by the time this podcast isgoing to be released, I wouldn't
be surprised if the audio bookon Audible will be available by
then as well.
And I narrated it.
Speaker 1 (29:20):
Nice, perfect, thank you.
Thank you so much.
And for my final question,because, as I was reading your
blogs, you did mention inseveral of your blogs
recommendations you give forcomplimentary therapies right
Before we started and.
I were discussing Reiki.
Can you share with us what yourfavorite complimentary
therapies are for autoimmunepatients?
Speaker 2 (29:42):
My favorite movement is really important, like, just
so you guys know, every personthat I work with we talk about
my mindset to my growthcurriculum.
You have to grow your mind.
And another sentence to writedown is the body always follows
the mind.
So if you don't grow and workon your mind first, your body
ain't following.
And, to quote Dr Gabor Mate,you know and his concepts, the
(30:05):
body, like, keeps score.
So what happens is is that hehas associated and I have as
well that certain specific typesof thought patterns or types of
trauma causes your mind to bein a pattern of self-destruction
.
And so what I've learned frommyself having multiple
autoimmune diseases, withHashimoto's, mixed connective
(30:25):
tissue disorder, also neuralgia,a lot of neuropathy neuralgias,
autoimmune related, and myhormone thing, by the way, early
menopause at the age of 36, allhormonal, all autoimmune,
autoimmune attack against myovaries, my adrenals, yet an
unnamed autoimmune disease thatis rampant.
So what I learned was that it'sreally critical to grow your
(30:49):
mind.
So when I think about otherhealth strategies, to me one of
the most important healthstrategies is to strengthen your
mind, challenge your mind andgrow it like you're a ninja,
you're a warrior, you're agladiator.
Renee Brown has talked abouthow vulnerability and how I want
to be the gladiator in the ringwith the blood, sweat, tears my
(31:12):
foot on the ground, dust in theair, dust in my mouth, like
spitting it out, to be like I'drather be with that person in
the ring with that level ofvulnerability because I'm
playing, I'm playing.
I'm not going to be a spectator, I'm playing.
So for me, personal growth,work and development of yourself
to create adaptability,flexibility and curiosity and
(31:34):
growth of your mind is the mostnumber one health strategy.
And the way that you start thatis go read my book with the
chapter.
The first chapter is lead withcuriosity.
The last chapter is frommindset to mind growth.
Those two chapters bookend thebook on purpose because you
begin and you end with growingyour mind.
Number two great authors likeBrene Brown, right.
(31:56):
Great podcast episodes here Ialready saw in this channel
about growing your mind.
Right and look at, read DrGabor Mate's book and his books
around autoimmunity and whatthought patterns that are really
common For me, like learningthat the number one thought
pattern that people have.
I'm going to have you guess andI'm going to have the audience
(32:16):
guess.
What do you guys think is thenumber one thought pattern I
have found in treating tens ofthousands of autoimmune patients
.
Speaker 1 (32:26):
I'm going to say it's probably along the lines of I
can't get better.
I'm always going to be sick.
Is it something like that?
Speaker 2 (32:34):
It's lack of forgiveness.
Speaker 1 (32:37):
Oh, like I did it to myself.
This is my fault.
Speaker 2 (32:39):
I can't forgive them or I can't forgive myself, I
deserve to be punished.
Yes, yes, okay, lack offorgiveness really is very high
judgment and it begs the otherside of it, which is punishment.
And lack of forgiveness of selfis self punishment, which feeds
(33:01):
autoimmune disease like crazy.
I mean that could be a wholeother podcast interview, but you
could, I mean audience.
If you guys want to follow upon how forgiveness and lack of
forgiveness is the major triggerof autoimmune disease, I would
love to explore that.
But that is what I have foundis people who are have lack of
forgiveness for itself or othersare high judgment in, in their,
(33:22):
in their thought matrix, thethought patterns, and that high
judgments demands justice, whichis punishment.
Speaker 1 (33:30):
I see that it does.
Yeah, I need to rectify, I needa correction.
Speaker 2 (33:34):
Yeah, I need justice and so, believe it or not, that
translates also.
Whatever lack of forgivenessyou have towards others, it's
the same you're doing toyourself and so, believe it or
not, that translates also.
Whatever lack of forgivenessyou have towards others, it's
the same you're doing toyourself.
And so you're demanding justiceand punishment towards yourself
, so you're actually fuelingyour autoimmune attack to kill
yourself and hurt your body.
Speaker 1 (33:57):
Wow, so that is such a powerful statement.
I think that we could probablyclose there.
Other than, let me ask you onemore time, maggie, for the
listeners, what is the best wayto find you?
I think you're very easy tofind, but if you could just
verbally remind us how to findyou, you can go to drmaggiucom,
(34:19):
that's my website.
Speaker 2 (34:20):
You could go to maggiumd, which is my Instagram,
which is my YouTube handle.
You could just head that.
Those directions in the shownotes is my book.
If you go on Amazon, look underMaggie UMD book and there'll be
eight out of the box ways totransform your health.
You can find me, find me there.
I'm about connections, so Iwant to connect and talk to you.
No-transcript, full-time teammembers working in that group to
(35:13):
actually connect, provideresources and help people get
educated, and that's the placefor people to ask curious
questions from other curiouspeople who are open and learning
Wonderful.
Speaker 1 (35:26):
So, listeners, thank you so much for joining me.
In your show notes you'll seelinks to reach Dr Maggie.
You'll also see a link to signup for my weekly newsletter.
If you have not, I usuallyrecommend signing up for my
newsletter because you'll get acopy of everything right to your
phone.
You don't have to rush to saveit, and all of Dr Maggie's links
, including how to get a copy ofher book, will be there.
(35:48):
It has been such a blessing, drMaggie, such a blessing for
your energy, to have you here.
I cannot thank you enough,thank you.
Speaker 2 (35:59):
Thanks for having me on.
You are a great interviewer, Ilove enough.
Thank you.
Thanks for having me on.
You are a great interviewer, Ilove it.
Thank you, and I'm excited toshare this with my audience as
well your podcast.
Thank you everybody.
Thank you so much.
Hello and welcome back to the Art of Healing
podcast.
I'm Dr Charlize and thank youso much for joining me for
today's episode.
I am very fortunate to bewelcoming a special guest for
today's podcast interview.
We will be getting to know DrMaggie Yu.
(00:22):
Dr Yu is a physician, a familypractice specialist and a
functional medicine practitionercertified who is highly
respected in family practice andgraduated from UCLA School of
Medicine.
She's been in practice for 25years.
Dr Yu is an author, a mother, ateacher, a speaker and a
(00:43):
thought leader.
Dr Yu has become a force to bereckoned with in the world of
functional medicine and herjourney has been anything but
ordinary.
Dr Yu's journey started withdeveloping a mysterious
autoimmune disease after havingababy.
After being diagnosed at theage of 36, dr Yu suffered
(01:04):
several debilitating medicalissues, including fibromyalgia,
early menopause, hashimoto's,chronic pain, depression, tmj
and mixed connective tissuedisease.
After battling her owndebilitating health challenges,
she recognized limitations ofconventional medicine.
This is what set her on aprofound journey that became a
(01:25):
personal experience that now hasshaped the way that she works
with the patients.
She has developed the TransformProtocol, which is an online
autoimmune chronic diseaseprogram which comprehensively
addresses disease at the rootcause.
The groundbreaking protocol hasnot only transformed her life,
but has also proven to be abeacon of hope for countless
(01:46):
others suffering from similarafflictions.
During our interview, I'm goingto be asking Dr Yu some
questions about how shenavigated the health system,
what brought her to where she isnow and, most importantly, what
the rest of us can do if shehad trouble navigating the
(02:06):
health system as a familypractice physician.
All right, let's get started.
Well, maggie, it is so nice tomeet you.
I'm so honored to have you onmy podcast and to introduce you
to my community.
Thank you so much for coming ontoday.
Introduce you to my community.
(02:27):
Thank you so much for coming ontoday.
Wonderful, I was reading aboutyou and your journey.
Where I wanted to start which,to me, has just been the most
profound thing, is that beforeyou became an author and a
teacher and a thought leader,you family medicine.
Yeah, you experienced your ownhealth challenges and you had to
look outside of conventionalmedicine.
I'm interested to know that, aphysician, what happened that
(02:51):
you could not find the answersand the healing you needed in
conventional medicine?
Speaker 2 (02:56):
I would say that it mirrors many of my colleagues,
probably including you as well.
I would say that we, asphysicians, become you as well.
I would say that we, asphysicians, become well.
Actually, any teacher becomesthe best teacher in our area of
greatest suffering.
So what happened to me was thatyou know I was.
I loved being a familyphysician.
(03:17):
I was a wonderful familyphysician.
I was really good at it.
I was a workhorse.
I was one of those people thatI would see 20, 30 patients
every day go home and chart six,seven hours and come back and
do it and come at me.
I became medical director ofour clinic.
I was teaching young familyphysicians and managing them in
a large practice or a largemedical group.
(03:37):
So after the birth of eachchild and as we talk more about
autoimmunity, you'll see whythis is a pattern During my
pregnancy and after the birth ofeach child, I developed more
and more chronic health mysterysymptoms that I couldn't answer.
I didn't even know what theywere, and it culminated so that
I had my first child at 30, mysecond at 33, and each
(03:59):
postpartum event brought me tomy knees and I didn't fully
recover from either.
I had C diff infection.
I had hair loss, weight gain, Ihad depression, brain fog, add
symptoms, depression, anxiety,and it didn't get better and it
culminated at the age of 36.
(04:19):
I went into full-blown earlymenopause where my FSH level
came back at the level of 80.
We all know what that means asphysicians.
So I was in medical menopause atthe age of 36, which is not
common, right.
But at the same time I wasbeing told by myself and my
colleagues and what I told otherpeople is oh, you don't need to
(04:41):
test your hormones If your FSHis 80, or if you haven't had
your periods for a year.
Your hormones, we know, are lowpostmenopausal, so why bother?
So I started getting doors shutat me with symptoms of chronic
pain, fatigue, brain fog, add,depression.
I mean I felt damn suicidal andit got to the point where my
(05:02):
health had taken such a blowthat it affected my career.
I mean I lost my job, I lost mymind and I lost my marriage.
Speaker 1 (05:14):
Whoa.
Speaker 2 (05:15):
Wow, when you are there, you don't have a choice.
I got to the place where Irealized doing anything
different would be better thanwhere I was at.
And yeah, and that, to me, waswhat really pushed me outside
the box, because, operating as apeak physician, peak performer,
trainer, teacher in that realm,I was in a system that didn't
(05:39):
answer the mysteries around myown health and home's own health
symptoms and the completedevastation, decline of my
professional and personal lifeand health.
So it didn't provide me theanswers.
It became my greatest area ofsuffering.
It became my charge and mymission.
I had to save my own life andthat's what triggered me to say,
hey, you know what?
(05:59):
I'm really smart and I couldput all my MD smarts how can I
apply that to learn maybe ahundred other tools to deal with
this very difficult to solvechronic health array of symptoms
.
So I put it together and Istarted to really look outside
the box, everywhere, anywhere,all the time, so I can figure
out how to save my own life.
That's how this started.
Speaker 1 (06:21):
So for the listeners, because most of my community
aren't physicians, but I guesswhat I'm.
What's kind of struck me isthat just you know for the
listeners to know that asphysicians, when we go in to see
a doctor, you know it's a mixedbag.
Sometimes we come in with anadvantage as far as we can speak
(06:42):
the language you know.
We can speak the language toour practitioner.
I know in my own experiencewhen I've had to see another
specialty, it depends.
Sometimes I can't speak theirlanguage, sometimes I'm just
kaput and I'll just say treat meas you would anyone else, cause
I can't think like that.
So I guess what I wondered inyour journey?
And you said you were gettingdoors closed on you.
So you, I mean typically whenyou're a physician, you say
(07:05):
doors closed on you.
So you, I mean typically whenyou're a physician, you say, hey
, I'd like to check my hormones,and you were being told no, you
don't need to, you're nothaving any periods.
Speaker 2 (07:11):
Your FSH is 80.
We know you're in menopause, soit would be post-menopausal
normal At 36?
.
That's what was gynecology.
My colleagues, these were myfriends.
Speaker 1 (07:26):
So what were you just supposed to walk off and be?
Speaker 2 (07:28):
like cool 20 years ago.
All right, I mean, I am 50, Iam 54.
This was 18, almost 20 yearsago, yeah.
And so doctors don't testhormones.
Even now, women and men andchildren are getting hurt, that
hormonal door slammed in theirface when they're dealing with
(07:48):
tons of complicated healthsymptoms and mental health
symptoms.
Still hasn't happened to learnthe difference of what.
What is actually what I meanwhen I say hormone balance
versus, you know, hormonereplacement therapy or just a
(08:11):
denial or medical gaslighting,right?
So for me, this whole ideaaround hormone balancing is
really critical.
At that time, oprah Winfrey didan interview with Suzanne Somers
and Suzanne Somers was, I think, she wrote a book and it was
all about bioidentical hormones,ivs and this and that, and
people thought she was nuts andpeople thought Oprah was nuts
(08:32):
for even promoting this, and soit was almost as if there was
like a waging war battle goingon at that time between
everybody should be on Premarinand fake progesterone, fake
hormones and horse hormones.
Oh, now all these studies arecoming out saying that's the
devil, and then Suzanne Summersand Oprah coming out saying it's
all about bioidentical hormonesand every grandma should be on
(08:54):
high doses of bioidenticalhormones.
It was like a waging battle.
So it was like a huge taboo,and so for me, even as a
physician, to go ask for myhormones to be tested.
It was as if I was asking forvoodoo or taboo medicine.
Wow.
Speaker 1 (09:10):
So and I hear what you say about you know this
happened some time ago, but Idon't actually feel that it's
changed in conventional medicine.
That's the point.
Yeah, I don't think it'schanged.
Nothing has changed there.
Speaker 2 (09:21):
Nothing has changed there, and so the amount of
misunderstanding around hormonesbetween doctors and patients is
astounding.
And I talk about this in thebook in the chapter about
hormones is that people don'trealize that there's little to
no true hormone experts outthere that understand what
(09:41):
hormone balance means and formental health, let's say whether
it's ADD, depression, anxiety,brain fog, right, any of right,
and every one of those symptomsthat I talk about and I deal a
ton with long haul POTS, mastcell activation, autoimmune
diseases but every single one ofthose symptoms have a basis in
hormones and a lack of hormonalbalance.
And the problem is then peoplecome from a podcast like this or
(10:07):
reading the book and they say,well then I need to go ask my
doctor to get my hormones testedor I need to get on
bioidentical hormones, but theproblem is there's a lack of
true hormone experts.
Because I talk about followingthe money.
It has been big businesses fornatural and functional medicine
(10:27):
doctors or just regular doctors,gynecologists, to say I'm a
hormone specialist and what theyreally are is they're a hormone
pellet mill.
Speaker 1 (10:39):
Yeah, so I have been curious about that because I've
had patients in and out of thoseprograms, in and out, and the
part that has always confused meis that they're not necessarily
better with their symptoms.
Speaker 2 (10:52):
Correct Getting bioidentical hormones, fake
hormones, doesn't mean yourhormones are balanced.
And then the problem is themain type of hormones that
people are getting is hormonepellets from quote unquote
hormone experts or functional ornaturopathic physicians.
And the reason for that isfollowing the money Every time.
If I, let's say, you're workingwith someone who's teaching you
(11:13):
the skills which is what we doI teach people.
Recognize what those patternsare, learn the skills to balance
your hormones, get all thetools of which.
Maybe you need hormones, maybeyou don't, okay, but even if you
did, it's very small amountsfor balancing, just so you guys
know.
So the problem is is that if youfollow the money, like most
doctors and whether you'reconventional or whether you're,
(11:33):
let's say, you're a hormoneexpert and you're a functional
medicine doctor or a naturopaththat insurance doesn't cover,
well, how do you make your money?
Right, you make your money bycharging a lot for your visits,
so it's time.
Or you make your money by salesof products and services that
give you a lot of cash flow, andhormone pellets give a lot of
cash flow.
So they're hundreds, even$1,000.
(11:56):
Every time you go in to gethormone pellets, you got to go
in and do it every three, sixmonths, depending what the
regimen is, and so it's like arecurring subscription cash cow
for the doctor's office and so alot of practices.
They don't want to spend timeteaching you the skills or
uncovering patterns.
Why don't I just get everysingle person into a pellet mill
where I can get a, you know,nurse, practitioner, physician
(12:19):
assistant, somebody else who'slower wages, lower expenditure
than hiring another physician oreducator or true instructor,
and just do pellets, pellets,pellets, pellets, so that people
get on pellets and they getcrazy ass.
High doses of thesebioidentical hormones that in
fact, is causing more problems.
Some people need what I callheifer doses of hormones.
(12:41):
Okay, most people don't.
They're getting way too muchhormones and it can actually
exacerbate the problem becausehormones turn into other
hormones and breakdown products.
So we're creating a systemwhere people will build up a lot
of these hormones and it istoxic to your health.
It is really taxing on yourliver.
It's really taxing on your gut.
(13:03):
It's really tasking on peoplewith autoimmune diseases,
mystery illnesses.
When you got this crazy assbuildup hormones and your liver
is struggling against that, itexacerbates conditions that we
call really commonly like fattyliver.
So this is like a hell stormwe're brewing in these hormone
pellet mills.
(13:23):
That is currently the standardof care.
Speaker 1 (13:25):
Yeah, yeah, that's everything you just said.
I loved it because, the wayI'll say it is, it's a balance.
We're looking for what worksfor you, but it does seem like a
lot of.
What I see is this excess justpiling on more and more and more
, and that's a conversation Ifrequently have in my practice.
Do we really need that much?
Speaker 2 (13:47):
No Microdosing.
Microdosing.
Speaker 1 (13:51):
It's true, and what I see in my own community.
It is exactly what.
I hadn't thought of it as likea pellet meal, but I see just
these mega doses, mega.
And then when I meet the person, they're still having a lot of
symptoms.
I think, well, you know, youknow, as a supplement helping
you.
So, maggie, I did want to askyou as an autoimmune expert.
(14:13):
I just happened to catch asound clip on the news several
days ago about the increasingincidence of autoimmune disease,
oh yeah.
And then I started doing asearch and, sure enough, kind of
got confirmation of that.
So I wanted to get your opinion, your expert opinion, on what
would be behind why we're seeingmore autoimmune disease.
Speaker 2 (14:36):
There's a seven to 11 fold increase over the last 60
years in autoimmune diseasediagnosis.
Some people are saying, oh,it's only because we're
diagnosing them more, havingmore tests to diagnose them.
That's not actually true.
So they've even done studieswhere they've taken blood
samples from people who were inthe military, like 60 years ago,
and blood samples from peoplein the military now, and the
(14:58):
presence of the amount ofantibodies meaning your immune
system attacking your own body,is up seven to 11 fold.
So it's not just we'rediagnosing it.
Better is that we aretriggering our immune system.
And the basis is this is thatyour immune system is there A
couple main roles.
One main role is to identify agerm outside your body.
So if you're a germ and I'mgoing to kill you.
(15:19):
Second role to identify in yourbody you're a cancer cell, you
don't belong here I'm going tokill you.
Third role is your immunesystem works as an allergic
system.
I'm allergic to you and I'mgoing to react and send
histamines and raise histamineslevels to trigger an allergic
reaction.
So those are some of the majorroles of the immune system.
(15:41):
And why has there been anincrease seven to 11 fold?
And why is it predominantly?
Also, why do women have atleast a four or five times
higher risk of having autoimmunediseases than men?
Number one we're gonna go rightback to what we just started
talking about is hormones.
We are having more and morehormonal exposures, imbalances
(16:01):
now than we ever have, and womenare more susceptible to
fluctuations in hormones thanmen, and women are having higher
and bigger fluctuation levelsthan they ever did for a wide
variety of reasons.
So I'm going to say thathormonal change and flux men,
(16:23):
women and children are at anepidemic rise and we are more
ill-equipped in dealing with itthan ever because the financial
pressures, the lack of educationand doctor's training that we
have.
So what I see is an epidemic of, for example, postpartum women,
women going through menopause,suddenly coming down with these
(16:45):
crazy health symptoms, and a lotof them don't even know it's
autoimmune.
And a lot of them don't evereven get diagnosed, because, in
my own experiences, 90% ofautoimmune diseases we can't
even diagnose because there's noblood tests that exist.
So, you just have chronicfatigue, you just have brain fog
.
You just have pain orneuropathy and holy hell, it's
autoimmune.
You just have pain orneuropathy and holy hell, it's
(17:09):
autoimmune.
These hormone changes actuallyturn on autoimmune attack.
Hormone changes turn onautoimmune attack.
I want everybody to write thatdown, if you remember nothing
else.
Hormone changes turn onautoimmune attack.
So if you think about all thedifferent times in your life,
whether you're a woman, man or achild, then you have vulnerable
periods of time when that willturn on any sort of genetics
(17:33):
that you have for autoimmunedisease.
And now not only hormone changes, but infections.
So if you have a superinfection like COVID long haul,
if you have Epstein-Barr, if youhave Lyme, there are super
infections that will irritateyour immune system and irritate
(17:53):
it so much that it starts toattack.
So we now know there'sadditional triggers, like the
infectious triggers are alsogoing up of these super
infections.
And then the third problem isthe lack of our ability to
detoxify our bodies, our livesand our minds.
So we build up toxic load,inflammation load in our body.
We're becoming incubator intanks for it.
(18:15):
It's not just our earth in anenvironment that's getting toxic
buildup.
Our bodies are becomingreservoirs of toxicity,
inflammation and autoimmuneattack.
Speaker 1 (18:31):
Thank you so much for shedding some insight on that
Cause.
I know that it was somethingthat I've witnessed and it was
one of those soundbites you hearon the news and I thought, whoa
, wait a minute, it must begetting to be pretty big if it
hit the five o'clock news.
Thank you so much for sharingthat Cause.
I think it's something we'd allbeen witnessing, so I did want
to ask you what would yourecommend as a first step?
(18:53):
If I am someone who isexperiencing what you survived
and I'm in the conventionalmedicine model and I'm not doing
well or I'm getting sicker,what would you recommend is the
first step I should do to startclimbing out of this?
I really wanted your opinion,particularly because you were a
physician who had to do this.
(19:14):
There's millions out there whoaren't physicians, so what would
be my first step to take to getgoing in the right direction?
Speaker 2 (19:24):
I love that question because a lot of people are out
there and they are listening tome say some really big words and
I want to shrink it down toreally small words that have big
impact, because the predominantaudience that it's in your
audience, in my audience as well, is and that's where our
symptoms so, really, when you'redealing, when struggling with
(19:46):
symptoms like chronic fatigue,brain fog, pain, insomnia,
anxiety, right Weight gain, hairloss, right Rashes, hives,
increasing allergic reactions,bowel problems Suddenly your
life is starting to be, you'regetting anxious even going out
or saying yes to things, becauseyou're wondering what's going
(20:07):
to happen to your body, likewhat it is is.
I think people are losing, areat a place where they have very
low amount of health certaintyin themselves.
Their body becomesunpredictable.
They don't trust themselves ortheir own body anymore.
This is the place of mostpeople that I am talking to
right now and that's the reasonwhy most of them are in your
(20:27):
audience or listening to thispodcast right now.
It's these symptoms and wherepeople get stuck is that they
get stuck in what's thediagnosis or who's the super
special, rare specialist that Ican find that's going to fix all
these symptoms, and I want tosay that that's the opposite of
(20:48):
what you should be doing is tokeep going and going to try to
find a diagnosis, because thediagnosis doesn't present itself
.
The diagnosis of these types ofsymptoms don't present a
solution.
When you're looking at complex,invisible, chronic symptoms,
the most important thing is toknow that there's multiple
(21:10):
different what's causing it?
The number one question weshould be asking is what's
causing this?
What's causing it, not what isthe diagnosis.
What can I name it as?
What's causing this problem?
Because if you know and you canfigure as what's causing this
problem, because if you know andyou can figure out what the
cause of this problem is, thenyou can fix it.
If you don't know causation,knowing the name doesn't really
matter.
Find the cause of it, and thenumber one step, first step,
(21:33):
that everybody here in theaudience can take is education,
which is what I did.
We don't take an educational,active, educational approach to
the fight for our lives.
We don't.
We take a passive, like we'recow to slaughter approach when
it comes to health I'm seriousLike we take sick care, factory
medicine, as if like, oh, we'rejust going to keep going down
(21:55):
that conveyor belt.
You got to jump off thatfricking belt because it is
killing you.
You're going to die as a resultof it.
They're not here to save you.
Get off that fricking conveyorbelt.
The first step is awareness.
I will not participate in thisconveyor belt, or I will
participate in this conveyorbelt to the degree that it
serves me, meaning like, if Ineed that doctor to order these
tests, if I do really need thatprescription, like that's the
(22:18):
conveyor belt route, right, andif that whatever aspects of that
that's helping your problem,great.
But that is not your.
That is not your Messiah.
Your Messiah is a differentpath.
The different path is numberone chapter in my book.
You got to lead with curiositywhy the heck is this happening?
What is this?
Who are the people that'ssaying something different about
(22:38):
this?
Who can I learn more from?
Right?
And so education is the firststep, right, first action step
that you take.
You're listening to this podcast, you're getting educated and
you're hearing an alternativepoint of view that doesn't exist
anywhere else.
So if you're listening to thispodcast, in the podcast notes
right now in the comment section, interact, say, tell, tell me,
(23:02):
tell, dr Davis, like, what aresome of the symptoms you're
dealing with?
What's going on?
What are some of your questionsMaybe you should question.
Maybe you think you know whatthe cause is and you should
question it.
Start a dialogue, because whathappens is when you start
connecting with people like DrDavis and myself, you start
connecting with our audiences inthe comment section, in our
communities, you are going tostart hearing different
(23:23):
approaches to this problem.
Example this podcast, greatresource to learn.
Another example my YouTubechannel.
I have, at the time thisrecording, 1,400 videos on there
on every topic you couldimagine, and I joke about it and
I'm like maybe people shouldstart asking about their
hemorrhoids and there might be avideo for that.
Speaker 1 (23:46):
Your blog is where I've.
I swam around in your blog,yeah, that's what you know.
After hours I like to read.
I love your blog.
The blog article I mean inlisteners in your show notes
there'll be links to every wayto reach Dr Nikki.
But I really enjoyed the blogs,yeah.
Speaker 2 (24:04):
Like Dr Davis, you learned.
Like the reason you're doingwhat you're doing right now and
you have a smile on your faceand you're passionate and
prolific at what you're doing isbecause you went outside the
box to learn something differentthan what you were medically
trained to do.
Speaker 1 (24:19):
Yeah Well, locally I'm the witch doctor locally.
Speaker 2 (24:22):
It's a joke here.
So yeah, I'm a witch doctorhere everywhere.
Speaker 1 (24:25):
Okay, I just want to have that hat on.
I'm a proud witch.
Speaker 2 (24:31):
The crystal caring is since burning internist, I have
a lot of my patients andclients call me magic Maggie.
Same idea Magic Maggie, drMagic Maggie.
And so for me I mean, look atyou.
What was the first step thatyou did to jump out of your lane
?
Speaker 1 (24:52):
It was education.
And I will say, as I wasreading your story because it
really the first thing and as Iwas reading through your blogs,
watching reviews, I thought thiswoman graduated from UCLA.
Guys, this is, I don't like to.
I hope you understand what I'msaying, maggie.
I don't like to categorizepeople, but if anyone could
(25:12):
contend with the medical system,it would be you.
Does that?
I mean?
You know, with your experience,you worked in it, you were the
medical system.
I mean, with your experience,you worked in it, you were the
medical system, and if you werescreaming for help, oh my gosh,
she couldn't do it.
My own health, thank goodness.
It wasn't so much my health, itwas curiosity, and it was the
(25:39):
same questions in my practice,coming back and back, and then
my natural curiosity that Istarted to listen to functional
medicine podcasts as a patient.
Yeah, yeah, it was curiosity.
I never thought it would bleedover into my practice.
I thought they would stayseparate.
Speaker 2 (25:53):
No, you can't.
Speaker 1 (25:55):
Once you see it, you can't unsee it.
You can't unsee it, and that'swhat I assumed is because
patients were asking me.
10 years before I even startedto look, they started to ask me
questions and I would thinkthat's weird.
I don't understand.
Then I started oh, this is whatthey're seeing.
Oh, my goodness, they're right,maggie.
Can we just let the listenersknow about your book?
Speaker 2 (26:13):
actually, going to do one up that I'm going to give
all your listeners a copy of thebook.
So in the show notes those ofyou guys that have made it
through this part of the podcastalready, I'm just letting you
know up front in the show notesthere's going to be a link where
you guys can get a free copy ofmy book, because I sure as heck
wants you guys to read thatfirst chapter called leading
with curiosity.
Speaker 1 (26:35):
Eight out of the box Cause.
That's where I think that wouldbe a perfect place to start for
those that are young.
Speaker 2 (26:42):
It's eight out of the box ways to transform your
health, and it is a seriesbecause my intent is to create a
series of eight out of the boxways to solve any any problem,
and I think about it in that way, and I love the number eight.
It's an infinity sign because Ithink that when you grow
people's minds right, when, whenyou grow people's minds and you
(27:03):
lead with curiosity, thatgrowth is infinite, the
potential is there, is infinite.
So I couldn't have dreamed thisfuture for myself 20 years ago
when I was on that bathroomfloor, but at the same time,
through curiosity, education andaction steps, taking action
over and over and over again,I'm here.
I'm here, and so what I didwith the book Eight Out of the
(27:26):
Box Ways was to put my eight topbest lessons that my clients
always tell me.
Like because we have, you know,client interviews all the time.
I love, like don't just take,listen to me.
We interview two to fourclients every single week that
are graduating from variousprograms that we have, so that
they can share their experience.
Because, to me, success leavesa strategy, not clues.
(27:49):
Success is a strategy, and so Iwant successful people and we
interviewed them.
And no matter what your healthproblem is.
You go on my YouTube channelPOTS dysautonomia.
No matter what your healthproblem is, you go on my YouTube
channel POTS dysautonomiaSjogren's.
You could have nearly died fromCrohn's Graves.
I've seen it, I've done it all.
I laugh at those.
I laugh at danger, right sothey're not hard, they're
(28:11):
solvable problems, and Iinterview people who have
successfully overcome them andshare how they did that, right.
So in the book I have tons ofcase studies from real people
about you know, I've worked withthousands, right, so those case
studies are great and they arealso the real people that are on
my YouTube channel forinterviews.
But I didn't think I was goingto be an author.
(28:31):
I always thought I'm a goodteacher.
I'm really good on video.
I can talk.
I don't know if I could write,and once I made that decision to
do that, because patients andclients were asking for it, I
realized you know what Iactually love to write.
I had to keep editing it down.
It's very long.
I think it's 278 pagessomewhere around there.
(28:53):
But I love to write and I dothink there's a lot of people
who like to read and on top ofit-.
Speaker 1 (28:58):
That's my personal learning styles reading, so
you're reaching people like me.
I would much rather read a bookthan yes.
Speaker 2 (29:04):
I'm about connection and I recognize there are people
who connect their reading.
So that's why the book waswritten, and I just finished
recording the audio book.
So by the time this podcast isgoing to be released, I wouldn't
be surprised if the audio bookon Audible will be available by
then as well.
And I narrated it.
Speaker 1 (29:20):
Nice, perfect, thank you.
Thank you so much.
And for my final question,because, as I was reading your
blogs, you did mention inseveral of your blogs
recommendations you give forcomplimentary therapies right
Before we started and.
I were discussing Reiki.
Can you share with us what yourfavorite complimentary
therapies are for autoimmunepatients?
Speaker 2 (29:42):
My favorite movement is really important, like, just
so you guys know, every personthat I work with we talk about
my mindset to my growthcurriculum.
You have to grow your mind.
And another sentence to writedown is the body always follows
the mind.
So if you don't grow and workon your mind first, your body
ain't following.
And, to quote Dr Gabor Mate,you know and his concepts, the
(30:05):
body, like, keeps score.
So what happens is is that hehas associated and I have as
well that certain specific typesof thought patterns or types of
trauma causes your mind to bein a pattern of self-destruction
.
And so what I've learned frommyself having multiple
autoimmune diseases, withHashimoto's, mixed connective
(30:25):
tissue disorder, also neuralgia,a lot of neuropathy neuralgias,
autoimmune related, and myhormone thing, by the way, early
menopause at the age of 36, allhormonal, all autoimmune,
autoimmune attack against myovaries, my adrenals, yet an
unnamed autoimmune disease thatis rampant.
So what I learned was that it'sreally critical to grow your
(30:49):
mind.
So when I think about otherhealth strategies, to me one of
the most important healthstrategies is to strengthen your
mind, challenge your mind andgrow it like you're a ninja,
you're a warrior, you're agladiator.
Renee Brown has talked abouthow vulnerability and how I want
to be the gladiator in the ringwith the blood, sweat, tears my
(31:12):
foot on the ground, dust in theair, dust in my mouth, like
spitting it out, to be like I'drather be with that person in
the ring with that level ofvulnerability because I'm
playing, I'm playing.
I'm not going to be a spectator, I'm playing.
So for me, personal growth,work and development of yourself
to create adaptability,flexibility and curiosity and
(31:34):
growth of your mind is the mostnumber one health strategy.
And the way that you start thatis go read my book with the
chapter.
The first chapter is lead withcuriosity.
The last chapter is frommindset to mind growth.
Those two chapters bookend thebook on purpose because you
begin and you end with growingyour mind.
Number two great authors likeBrene Brown, right.
(31:56):
Great podcast episodes here Ialready saw in this channel
about growing your mind.
Right and look at, read DrGabor Mate's book and his books
around autoimmunity and whatthought patterns that are really
common For me, like learningthat the number one thought
pattern that people have.
I'm going to have you guess andI'm going to have the audience
(32:16):
guess.
What do you guys think is thenumber one thought pattern I
have found in treating tens ofthousands of autoimmune patients
.
Speaker 1 (32:26):
I'm going to say it's probably along the lines of I
can't get better.
I'm always going to be sick.
Is it something like that?
Speaker 2 (32:34):
It's lack of forgiveness.
Speaker 1 (32:37):
Oh, like I did it to myself.
This is my fault.
Speaker 2 (32:39):
I can't forgive them or I can't forgive myself, I
deserve to be punished.
Yes, yes, okay, lack offorgiveness really is very high
judgment and it begs the otherside of it, which is punishment.
And lack of forgiveness of selfis self punishment, which feeds
(33:01):
autoimmune disease like crazy.
I mean that could be a wholeother podcast interview, but you
could, I mean audience.
If you guys want to follow upon how forgiveness and lack of
forgiveness is the major triggerof autoimmune disease, I would
love to explore that.
But that is what I have foundis people who are have lack of
forgiveness for itself or othersare high judgment in, in their,
(33:22):
in their thought matrix, thethought patterns, and that high
judgments demands justice, whichis punishment.
Speaker 1 (33:30):
I see that it does.
Yeah, I need to rectify, I needa correction.
Speaker 2 (33:34):
Yeah, I need justice and so, believe it or not, that
translates also.
Whatever lack of forgivenessyou have towards others, it's
the same you're doing toyourself and so, believe it or
not, that translates also.
Whatever lack of forgivenessyou have towards others, it's
the same you're doing toyourself.
And so you're demanding justiceand punishment towards yourself
, so you're actually fuelingyour autoimmune attack to kill
yourself and hurt your body.
Speaker 1 (33:57):
Wow, so that is such a powerful statement.
I think that we could probablyclose there.
Other than, let me ask you onemore time, maggie, for the
listeners, what is the best wayto find you?
I think you're very easy tofind, but if you could just
verbally remind us how to findyou, you can go to drmaggiucom,
(34:19):
that's my website.
Speaker 2 (34:20):
You could go to maggiumd, which is my Instagram,
which is my YouTube handle.
You could just head that.
Those directions in the shownotes is my book.
If you go on Amazon, look underMaggie UMD book and there'll be
eight out of the box ways totransform your health.
You can find me, find me there.
I'm about connections, so Iwant to connect and talk to you.
No-transcript, full-time teammembers working in that group to
(35:13):
actually connect, provideresources and help people get
educated, and that's the placefor people to ask curious
questions from other curiouspeople who are open and learning
Wonderful.
Speaker 1 (35:26):
So, listeners, thank you so much for joining me.
In your show notes you'll seelinks to reach Dr Maggie.
You'll also see a link to signup for my weekly newsletter.
If you have not, I usuallyrecommend signing up for my
newsletter because you'll get acopy of everything right to your
phone.
You don't have to rush to saveit, and all of Dr Maggie's links
, including how to get a copy ofher book, will be there.
(35:48):
It has been such a blessing, drMaggie, such a blessing for
your energy, to have you here.
I cannot thank you enough,thank you.
Speaker 2 (35:59):
Thanks for having me on.
You are a great interviewer, Ilove enough.
Thank you.
Thanks for having me on.
You are a great interviewer, Ilove it.
Thank you, and I'm excited toshare this with my audience as
well your podcast.
Thank you everybody.
Thank you so much.
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