October 30, 2024 • 21 mins
Today, we're taking a closer look at a fear that keeps coming up for so many of us—the fear of letting our true selves show up fully, quirks and all. Through personal stories, we explore what it means to drop the mask and find the courage to reveal who we are at our core, especially in a world that often encourages us to blend in.
Sharing our own experiences, we talk about how small, personal acts can become big steps toward self-acceptance. It can feel surprisingly scary to embrace our quirks in public, especially when they don’t align with the norm.
Here's the thing, the fear of showing up authentically is often a challenge that doesn’t ease with time—but embracing who we are is always more rewarding than hiding, regardless of the outcome.
Together, we examine the ways fear can exaggerate the impact of a situation and hold us back, while also offering us powerful opportunities for connection and growth.
Embracing who we are isn’t always comfortable, and we’re not everyone’s cup of tea. Yet, in letting ourselves be seen, we open the door to richer relationships and a deeper sense of worthiness. So, grab a cup of tea, settle in with us, and let’s explore the beauty and bravery of being seen.
✨ You are meant to shine. ✨
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Sarah Kelly (00:01):
In our last episode we were chatting about fear,
and what is it like when you'reafraid but have to do it anyway.
And you and I have been talkingabout this ever since, because
this theory of like doing itanyway or this action is
actually so present in our livesactually so present in our
(00:28):
lives.
Sarah Anne (00:28):
Yeah, we were preparing for this episode and
we realized we both feel fearevery single day of our life,
multiple times throughout theday, and we still act in spite
of that fear.
Now, that wouldn't really be agood conversation, because we
would go all over the place, butone of the fears that came up
for us again and again was thefear of being seen as our true
selves.
So that's really what we'regoing to dive into today is how
(00:51):
do you first of all acknowledgethat fear and then how do you
find ways to move through it andstill make action?
Sarah Kelly (00:59):
Totally, and what we've noticed in working with
people one-on-one or workshopsor retreats is so many people
have this right, this fear oflike, but if you know the real
me, um, or if you see me, thenwhat?
Uh, and it's completelyuniversal and yet it's one that
(01:22):
we don't talk about.
Sarah Anne (01:24):
Yeah, and a big reason we don't talk about it is
because we're scared to right.
We don't want to admit thatwe're scared and that we're
scared of being seen.
Yeah.
Sarah Kelly (01:35):
What does being seen mean to you?
Sarah Anne (01:38):
You know, what it ultimately means for me is to
just not have to wear a maskthroughout the day.
Right To be able to share howI'm feeling, to be able to do
the things that I want to do andthat seems like really all over
the place, but like I want tobe able to.
(02:01):
Here's a great example Likewhen I worked at Omega, I
realized I don't like overheadlights and I want it to be a
really cozy environment, and inthe past I probably would have
compromised on those things, butI was able to.
There I had my overhead lightsoff, I brought in a lamp and I
also brought in my favoriteteacup and teapot and I would
(02:24):
just like, throughout the day,make myself tea.
And it was a little quirky thingthat I did and it was scary to
bring it up because I had tohave that conversation.
I never had felt comfortableenough to do it at any of my PR
jobs and I was like why, why areyou scared to do that?
Like this will bring you somuch joy to get through those
hours.
And then I would end up havingother co-workers over for tea
(02:45):
while we had office meetings.
It's ended up being a reallybeautiful way to connect, but it
was something I was too scaredto do in earlier careers.
Sarah Kelly (02:55):
Well, I think you just kind of nailed it too.
Is it's quirky, right?
And like, if it's not goingwith the norm, like is it okay?
And for us who are neuro, spicyor don't always go with the
norm, there's a lot of lifewhere you are trying to go with
(03:16):
the norm, um, to to exist, right, and so that fear comes up and
things like I need to use a lamp, which may seem really simple
to one person, but to anotherthat's a big deal.
Sarah Anne (03:29):
Yeah, and it was so funny because nobody used.
In my little area of the officenone of us use the overhead
lamps, I don't know, or I don'tknow who made the choice first.
But we all quickly were like,oh, they're not doing it, I'm
not going to do it too.
Oh, look, and then people fromother departments would come
down and be like, what is goingon?
(03:50):
Is anyone here?
Be like, oh, yes, we're here,we're working, but we're doing
it in a way that's likecomfortable for us.
Sarah Kelly (03:57):
Yeah, Okay, first of all, overhead light should
not exist anywhere, particularlyin office buildings.
They're terrible, they'reheadache inducing, they're they
buzz, they like, do all sorts ofthings.
So 100% on board with this.
Sarah Anne (04:13):
Why didn't I do it earlier, like, come on, how
about you?
What does it mean for you to beseen fully?
Sarah Kelly (04:24):
I think it comes to being a hundred percent
comfortable in my skin and stillbeing loved like that.
The who I am is I think I'vealways kind of struggled with.
Sometimes how I look on theoutside might not be who I am on
the inside, right, I thinkthat's probably true for a lot
of people and I I think thatmasking, you said, is a really
like, really important piece orbeautiful piece to examine,
(04:49):
because I do think there's a lotof times where, like, if you
know the real me, who's a weirdo, like I am a weirdo, then maybe
I'm not lovable, right, and forme it always comes down to not
being lovable, is like, and Iguess that ends up being alone
or isolated or whatever trailsoff of that.
(05:11):
But I think it's being seen forlike who I am, quirks and all
um and still being enough.
It's the worthiness piece,right.
Sarah Anne (05:23):
I, I love that both of us said that we were afraid
to show our quirkiness, becauseI know one of the many deep
reasons why I love you isbecause you are quirky and weird
.
It's like what drew me to you.
It's that beautiful light thatyou always exude well, not
always right, we all have baddays but like you're there and
(05:47):
like I feel like it's yourquirks that made us friends and
that do make you so lovable.
Sarah Kelly (05:54):
Thank you well, I think that goes to fitting in
too right.
Like I never felt like I was,never the person that had, like
in high school, a group like Ifit in with, like that.
That that was who I was and I'mnot sure anyone really does,
right, we like again like themask, we could examine that for
hours, but there was always thispiece of me that just kind of
(06:15):
felt like going with differentthings, like a chameleon, like I
could change into what otherswanted me to be or how I thought
I should be seen.
But to take that off and stepout and be like actually this is
me and I'm still lovable is theprocess has been many, many
(06:39):
years right, like many years and, as you know, as my best friend
and business partner, it stillcomes up for me being seen.
The fear of being seen comes upagain and again, but it's
different through the years.
It's like I can take the quirkright, I'm okay with my quirk.
It's like the next level of Idon't know ostracization, like
(07:02):
that's a big job.
I have a little quirk, don'tostracize me.
Sarah Anne (07:07):
Again.
Right, we're going back to fear, like having fear, and I think
sometimes our fears areoverblown in our heads.
That's like what we discoverwhen we start to show those true
sides of ourselves, thosequirks, is that not only are we
not unlovable, but we're lovedeven more when we're able to let
them show through.
Sarah Kelly (07:27):
And that's the irony we always talk about in
self-love right, Self-love isdone in community, and so it's
the same the more we're actuallyseen, the more lovable we
actually are for our true selves.
And yet getting over that fearis a stumbling block.
Sarah Anne (07:45):
How do you think it shows up for you nowadays?
You know?
Sarah Kelly (07:50):
I think, particularly with isolation from
COVID and new motherhood, whereI had finally kind of gotten
myself to do networking eventsor like here's what I'm going
like, set goals for myself andwhile I'm an external processor
and have a lot of extrovertnessin me, I also have a lot of
(08:11):
introvertness in me and I lovemy cozy couch, I love my home.
Like I love to be like justcocooned up, and to do that for
essentially four years has madein present day it more
challenging to be in groups ofpeople again where it is
(08:31):
particularly peer to peer.
So, whether it's, you know,meeting my daughter's friends,
parents like in trying to figureout how do you have a new
friendship with this person that, like you don't know but like
you're going to be friends withbecause your kiddos are like
loving each other, or how tostep out into another networking
(08:52):
event when I haven't gone in somany years, Like those are the
pieces that bring up more fearnow of like, okay, today I'm
comfortable in who I am, butlike where do you go with
letting people like just gettingto know new people?
Sarah Anne (09:08):
Yeah, that makes total sense.
Yeah, and I know you were youwere saying this before before
we hit record but that you findmore fear from that one on one
or that personal groups, insteadof like being on stage or doing
a great big presentation, whichI think is the opposite of a
lot of people stage are doing agreat big presentation, which I
think is the opposite of a lotof people.
Sarah Kelly (09:27):
I think it's like and maybe this goes sometimes to
the neuro spicy pieces but likeI don't always know how to have
normal, I'm doing air quotesfor listening conversations,
like I'm a person that's alwaysshared more than really
necessary.
I am a person that's alwaysshared more than really
necessary and one of my quirks.
(09:52):
That's lovable.
But when meeting new people,like if someone asks me a
question, I answer very honestlyto a point that is what I have
learned not normal.
Like sometimes people lie justto give an easy answer Like how
are you?
Oh, I'm great, how are you?
I said oh well, it's beenreally hard lately.
I'm tired, but I'm happybecause I have everything I've
ever wanted, and but I, you knowmy business.
(10:14):
And then, like I don't know howto have normal conversation On
a stage I have a topic like thisis what we talk about, this is
what we're doing, but you put meone-on-one and all bets are off
.
All bets are off.
Sarah Anne (10:32):
I can like hear your fears.
Sarah Kelly (10:34):
You're sharing this story through my face.
Sarah Anne (10:36):
I'm like yeah, I'm sorry, I'm laughing at it.
It's only because I feel youand I understand on it.
It's only because I feel youand I understand they.
I actually organize anetworking group because it's
the only way I would go is byhosting it beforehand.
(10:58):
I'm like, oh, do I have to goand like, yes, you're hosting it
?
Sarah Kelly (11:05):
but right, what comes out of it is after you
host it, because we meet, afteryou're energized, you're happy,
you've made these greatconnections and talked, and I
think that on the other side offear is almost always okay, not
always a positive experience.
I want to very clearly say thatno, like, a lot of things are
(11:25):
effing scary for a reason, andthey're scary and they're hard
and they're painful.
But when it comes to theday-to-day stuff, which I think
is some of what we're talkingabout, is like we're no longer
in the forest fighting off abear, like to have coffee with
someone.
It's like not the same reaction.
Yet my nervous system doesn'talways know that, like I, my
(11:48):
nervous system is like oh oh,having a conversation with
another human can feel like abear in the forest yes, yeah,
agreed.
Sarah Anne (11:57):
And when you're neuro spicy, it's like you don't
even have the right weapons topacify or subdue the bear.
You're just like here.
Sarah Kelly (12:05):
I am right, which is all about seeing that,
because you're just seeing um,um and it's a take it or leave
it.
And the truth is is we're noteveryone's cup of tea, right?
Um, just like not everyone, issomeone like you just don't mesh
with everyone.
So there is the rejection piece.
Sarah Anne (12:24):
That happens in real life too, when you are seen,
and I think that's important tosay is that these fears are not
irrational, right.
It's just these fears.
Also, I refuse to let them stopme from living my life right,
even though they might haveoutcomes that aren't what I want
.
I always feel better.
(12:45):
So far, I move through the fear, even when it's something like
the networking.
For me that's a really easy,simple one.
It's like I've done it enoughtimes when, even if it's a I'm
using air quotes a bad session,it's still enjoyable enough that
, like, I get something out ofit, or at the worst it's like an
(13:06):
hour and a half of my life, youknow.
So I can kind of understandthat.
But there's other situationswhere they are a lot scarier for
me now, and that's like most ofwhere my work is right now.
It's around expressingboundaries, and particularly
expressing boundaries in therelationships with the people
(13:28):
that are closest with me, likestating my needs and just being
scared that the people that Ilove aren't going to um I'm
going to listen to my needs orare going to decide that they
don't love me anymore once I saythem.
Sarah Kelly (13:42):
So relatable, yeah Right.
I mean, like, isn't that thereason we don't set boundaries
so often?
I think so.
Sarah Anne (13:51):
Yeah, I know it's.
It is.
For me, it's the number onereason I set boundaries when I
should.
Sarah Kelly (13:56):
Yeah, and when you take all of the people okay, the
people that are closest, thatlove your quirks, that think
they're adorable, that love youso much, and then you have to
say out loud, like somethingthat's happening or something
between us isn't working, um, weneed to change that.
It's like for me, it's like Idon't want to push away that
(14:17):
person that loves me so much.
Sarah Anne (14:20):
It's like those relationships we've worked so
hard for and like I don't wantto do anything that might um,
that might shake them up in abad way.
That might shake them up in abad way.
Sarah Kelly (14:32):
But I think what we've learned Because we use
ourselves as examples so much Isthat the boundaries within our
relationship have actually madeus stronger, and I think that's
what we always talk about withboundaries Like they're not.
What's that word?
Yeah, they're not restrictive.
They're not restrictive,they're expansive.
(14:54):
And the same goes in being seenand loved and walking through
the fear of boundaries.
Sarah Anne (14:57):
It's so true and that's exactly what I was going
to say.
Like anytime, and that's whythat's this is where my current
work is, but I feel like I'mdoing a good job with it.
Like the conversations that I'mhaving around boundaries are
still really scary to have, soscary to have, but I'm able to
be more myself after I have them, I'm able to get my needs met
(15:20):
and, more importantly, I'mreminded that the people that
love me want me to be supported.
Right Like they're not alwayseasy conversations from both
sides.
It's navigating, it'scompromising, but they still get
us to a much healthier placeand I think our relationship
shows that first and foremost.
But I see it in romanticrelationships, I see it with
(15:41):
other coworkers, with otherfriends.
It's like when I bring up thescary things that aren't working
in a relationship, that's whenour relationship gets closer
scary things that aren't workingin a relationship.
Sarah Kelly (15:52):
That's when our relationship gets closer Totally
, and I think with theboundaries goes the needs right,
like when I'm able to expressmy needs and when I'm able to do
so from a standpoint that'sstrong within myself of like I
am worthy of this, like actuallyI know that this is what I need
and it might not make sense toanyone else, but like I'm
important enough and that'staken many years, many, many
years, many.
Actually.
I know that this is what I needand it might not make sense to
anyone else, but like I'mimportant enough and that's
taken many years, many, manyyears, many, many years a
(16:15):
lifetime to like express thatand I think that's so.
It's the same.
You know, that same piece thatfear.
And I recently had aconversation where, like my
voice was almost shaking.
I was like I don't want you totake this in a way that makes
you feel bad, like this is justwhat I need.
Sarah Anne (16:34):
Yeah, and for people listening that are scared still
to have the conversation or tobe seen, I'll share a story of
when I stated a boundary and itwasn't well received and it
actually ended up breaking therelationship.
And I felt really good aboutthat too, right, even though it
was really scary to state myneed and even though it caused a
(16:58):
break in that relationship, Ifeel so much freer and so much
lighter and I have so much morespace and time for the
relationships where that valueis equal and where my needs are
being listened to and seen andnot just heard but celebrated.
And you deserve celebration.
Yeah, we all do.
(17:20):
Yeah, it's still scary to havethe conversations, but it's
think about what's the worstthat's going to happen and then
do it anyways, because that'sthe worst that's going to happen
.
Sarah Kelly (17:34):
And the worst sometimes happens.
The worst absolutely sometimeshappens.
Sometimes we're seen and itcomes against us and yet what
you just said is in the long run, maybe not the short run.
So those in the midst of it,like the short runs, often messy
(17:54):
.
The part of healing, the partof fear, the part of the hard
parts of all of this isn'treally pretty and it doesn't
feel real good.
And it's that one step in frontof the other, knowing that, no
matter what, you're okay andsomehow, through practice, I
think that's how you're able todo more and more.
Sarah Anne (18:16):
Every time that you're able to move through your
fear and act anyways, you'retaking a leap forward and your
own personal development, nomatter what the outcome is.
And that's just working thosemuscles, getting in that
practice and knowing andtrusting.
Working those muscles, gettingin that practice and knowing and
trusting it goes back to whatyou said early of your worth and
(18:36):
then making your actions.
No matter how scared you are toshow the world that worth,
you're going to start attractingthe people that see the worth,
celebrate that worth with you.
Even if it might take a coupleof months, it might take a
couple of years, if you justkeep making that action you're
going to see the results in areally beautiful way.
Sarah Kelly (18:58):
And I think super important to note here is we all
have that worth within.
So even if it's like a mustardseed of worth, like slightly in
there, it's actually the actionthat grows it.
So they work together.
So if there's just enough to belike, okay, I'm going to do it
anyway.
That muscle grows, that plantgrows, whatever analogy we're
(19:20):
going to use.
Sarah Anne (19:22):
And just to be clear , the worth inside of you is a
gorgeous blazing sun, right?
But you might only believe thatyou have that kernel right, and
it really is through thataction that allows us to start
stripping away our doubts.
Sarah Kelly (19:39):
I love that clarification because I was just
like what does my worth insidelook like?
And I was like, like what havewe all like made paintings of
our internal worth, of whatwould be there whether we
believe it or not?
Sarah Anne (19:51):
Yes, oh, optional homework Listen, do it and then,
and then send them to us orpost them online and tag us.
We want to see them.
We should do that, that wouldbe fun.
Sarah Kelly (20:05):
Yeah, so much fun.
I see like bursting flowers.
Sarah Anne (20:09):
I just see a great big sun, great big shining sun
hours.
Sarah Kelly (20:14):
I just see a great big sun, great big, shining sun.
I feel like I love that each ofus had an automatic thought.
So, listeners, tell us what youautomatically thought worth
would look like internally.
Sarah Anne (20:23):
And then use that image.
Use that picture to just bebrave.
Be brave whatever your nextaction might be, no matter if
it's small, bringing in a teacupto your work or big, setting
some boundaries with some lovedones or unloved ones.
And let us know how that goestoo.
In our last episode we were chatting about fear,
and what is it like when you'reafraid but have to do it anyway.
And you and I have been talkingabout this ever since, because
this theory of like doing itanyway or this action is
actually so present in our livesactually so present in our
(00:28):
lives.
Sarah Anne (00:28):
Yeah, we were preparing for this episode and
we realized we both feel fearevery single day of our life,
multiple times throughout theday, and we still act in spite
of that fear.
Now, that wouldn't really be agood conversation, because we
would go all over the place, butone of the fears that came up
for us again and again was thefear of being seen as our true
selves.
So that's really what we'regoing to dive into today is how
(00:51):
do you first of all acknowledgethat fear and then how do you
find ways to move through it andstill make action?
Sarah Kelly (00:59):
Totally, and what we've noticed in working with
people one-on-one or workshopsor retreats is so many people
have this right, this fear oflike, but if you know the real
me, um, or if you see me, thenwhat?
Uh, and it's completelyuniversal and yet it's one that
(01:22):
we don't talk about.
Sarah Anne (01:24):
Yeah, and a big reason we don't talk about it is
because we're scared to right.
We don't want to admit thatwe're scared and that we're
scared of being seen.
Yeah.
Sarah Kelly (01:35):
What does being seen mean to you?
Sarah Anne (01:38):
You know, what it ultimately means for me is to
just not have to wear a maskthroughout the day.
Right To be able to share howI'm feeling, to be able to do
the things that I want to do andthat seems like really all over
the place, but like I want tobe able to.
(02:01):
Here's a great example Likewhen I worked at Omega, I
realized I don't like overheadlights and I want it to be a
really cozy environment, and inthe past I probably would have
compromised on those things, butI was able to.
There I had my overhead lightsoff, I brought in a lamp and I
also brought in my favoriteteacup and teapot and I would
(02:24):
just like, throughout the day,make myself tea.
And it was a little quirky thingthat I did and it was scary to
bring it up because I had tohave that conversation.
I never had felt comfortableenough to do it at any of my PR
jobs and I was like why, why areyou scared to do that?
Like this will bring you somuch joy to get through those
hours.
And then I would end up havingother co-workers over for tea
(02:45):
while we had office meetings.
It's ended up being a reallybeautiful way to connect, but it
was something I was too scaredto do in earlier careers.
Sarah Kelly (02:55):
Well, I think you just kind of nailed it too.
Is it's quirky, right?
And like, if it's not goingwith the norm, like is it okay?
And for us who are neuro, spicyor don't always go with the
norm, there's a lot of lifewhere you are trying to go with
(03:16):
the norm, um, to to exist, right, and so that fear comes up and
things like I need to use a lamp, which may seem really simple
to one person, but to anotherthat's a big deal.
Sarah Anne (03:29):
Yeah, and it was so funny because nobody used.
In my little area of the officenone of us use the overhead
lamps, I don't know, or I don'tknow who made the choice first.
But we all quickly were like,oh, they're not doing it, I'm
not going to do it too.
Oh, look, and then people fromother departments would come
down and be like, what is goingon?
(03:50):
Is anyone here?
Be like, oh, yes, we're here,we're working, but we're doing
it in a way that's likecomfortable for us.
Sarah Kelly (03:57):
Yeah, Okay, first of all, overhead light should
not exist anywhere, particularlyin office buildings.
They're terrible, they'reheadache inducing, they're they
buzz, they like, do all sorts ofthings.
So 100% on board with this.
Sarah Anne (04:13):
Why didn't I do it earlier, like, come on, how
about you?
What does it mean for you to beseen fully?
Sarah Kelly (04:24):
I think it comes to being a hundred percent
comfortable in my skin and stillbeing loved like that.
The who I am is I think I'vealways kind of struggled with.
Sometimes how I look on theoutside might not be who I am on
the inside, right, I thinkthat's probably true for a lot
of people and I I think thatmasking, you said, is a really
like, really important piece orbeautiful piece to examine,
(04:49):
because I do think there's a lotof times where, like, if you
know the real me, who's a weirdo, like I am a weirdo, then maybe
I'm not lovable, right, and forme it always comes down to not
being lovable, is like, and Iguess that ends up being alone
or isolated or whatever trailsoff of that.
(05:11):
But I think it's being seen forlike who I am, quirks and all
um and still being enough.
It's the worthiness piece,right.
Sarah Anne (05:23):
I, I love that both of us said that we were afraid
to show our quirkiness, becauseI know one of the many deep
reasons why I love you isbecause you are quirky and weird
.
It's like what drew me to you.
It's that beautiful light thatyou always exude well, not
always right, we all have baddays but like you're there and
(05:47):
like I feel like it's yourquirks that made us friends and
that do make you so lovable.
Sarah Kelly (05:54):
Thank you well, I think that goes to fitting in
too right.
Like I never felt like I was,never the person that had, like
in high school, a group like Ifit in with, like that.
That that was who I was and I'mnot sure anyone really does,
right, we like again like themask, we could examine that for
hours, but there was always thispiece of me that just kind of
(06:15):
felt like going with differentthings, like a chameleon, like I
could change into what otherswanted me to be or how I thought
I should be seen.
But to take that off and stepout and be like actually this is
me and I'm still lovable is theprocess has been many, many
(06:39):
years right, like many years and, as you know, as my best friend
and business partner, it stillcomes up for me being seen.
The fear of being seen comes upagain and again, but it's
different through the years.
It's like I can take the quirkright, I'm okay with my quirk.
It's like the next level of Idon't know ostracization, like
(07:02):
that's a big job.
I have a little quirk, don'tostracize me.
Sarah Anne (07:07):
Again.
Right, we're going back to fear, like having fear, and I think
sometimes our fears areoverblown in our heads.
That's like what we discoverwhen we start to show those true
sides of ourselves, thosequirks, is that not only are we
not unlovable, but we're lovedeven more when we're able to let
them show through.
Sarah Kelly (07:27):
And that's the irony we always talk about in
self-love right, Self-love isdone in community, and so it's
the same the more we're actuallyseen, the more lovable we
actually are for our true selves.
And yet getting over that fearis a stumbling block.
Sarah Anne (07:45):
How do you think it shows up for you nowadays?
You know?
Sarah Kelly (07:50):
I think, particularly with isolation from
COVID and new motherhood, whereI had finally kind of gotten
myself to do networking eventsor like here's what I'm going
like, set goals for myself andwhile I'm an external processor
and have a lot of extrovertnessin me, I also have a lot of
(08:11):
introvertness in me and I lovemy cozy couch, I love my home.
Like I love to be like justcocooned up, and to do that for
essentially four years has madein present day it more
challenging to be in groups ofpeople again where it is
(08:31):
particularly peer to peer.
So, whether it's, you know,meeting my daughter's friends,
parents like in trying to figureout how do you have a new
friendship with this person that, like you don't know but like
you're going to be friends withbecause your kiddos are like
loving each other, or how tostep out into another networking
(08:52):
event when I haven't gone in somany years, Like those are the
pieces that bring up more fearnow of like, okay, today I'm
comfortable in who I am, butlike where do you go with
letting people like just gettingto know new people?
Sarah Anne (09:08):
Yeah, that makes total sense.
Yeah, and I know you were youwere saying this before before
we hit record but that you findmore fear from that one on one
or that personal groups, insteadof like being on stage or doing
a great big presentation, whichI think is the opposite of a
lot of people stage are doing agreat big presentation, which I
think is the opposite of a lotof people.
Sarah Kelly (09:27):
I think it's like and maybe this goes sometimes to
the neuro spicy pieces but likeI don't always know how to have
normal, I'm doing air quotesfor listening conversations,
like I'm a person that's alwaysshared more than really
necessary.
I am a person that's alwaysshared more than really
necessary and one of my quirks.
(09:52):
That's lovable.
But when meeting new people,like if someone asks me a
question, I answer very honestlyto a point that is what I have
learned not normal.
Like sometimes people lie justto give an easy answer Like how
are you?
Oh, I'm great, how are you?
I said oh well, it's beenreally hard lately.
I'm tired, but I'm happybecause I have everything I've
ever wanted, and but I, you knowmy business.
(10:14):
And then, like I don't know howto have normal conversation On
a stage I have a topic like thisis what we talk about, this is
what we're doing, but you put meone-on-one and all bets are off
.
All bets are off.
Sarah Anne (10:32):
I can like hear your fears.
Sarah Kelly (10:34):
You're sharing this story through my face.
Sarah Anne (10:36):
I'm like yeah, I'm sorry, I'm laughing at it.
It's only because I feel youand I understand on it.
It's only because I feel youand I understand they.
I actually organize anetworking group because it's
the only way I would go is byhosting it beforehand.
(10:58):
I'm like, oh, do I have to goand like, yes, you're hosting it
?
Sarah Kelly (11:05):
but right, what comes out of it is after you
host it, because we meet, afteryou're energized, you're happy,
you've made these greatconnections and talked, and I
think that on the other side offear is almost always okay, not
always a positive experience.
I want to very clearly say thatno, like, a lot of things are
(11:25):
effing scary for a reason, andthey're scary and they're hard
and they're painful.
But when it comes to theday-to-day stuff, which I think
is some of what we're talkingabout, is like we're no longer
in the forest fighting off abear, like to have coffee with
someone.
It's like not the same reaction.
Yet my nervous system doesn'talways know that, like I, my
(11:48):
nervous system is like oh oh,having a conversation with
another human can feel like abear in the forest yes, yeah,
agreed.
Sarah Anne (11:57):
And when you're neuro spicy, it's like you don't
even have the right weapons topacify or subdue the bear.
You're just like here.
Sarah Kelly (12:05):
I am right, which is all about seeing that,
because you're just seeing um,um and it's a take it or leave
it.
And the truth is is we're noteveryone's cup of tea, right?
Um, just like not everyone, issomeone like you just don't mesh
with everyone.
So there is the rejection piece.
Sarah Anne (12:24):
That happens in real life too, when you are seen,
and I think that's important tosay is that these fears are not
irrational, right.
It's just these fears.
Also, I refuse to let them stopme from living my life right,
even though they might haveoutcomes that aren't what I want
.
I always feel better.
(12:45):
So far, I move through the fear, even when it's something like
the networking.
For me that's a really easy,simple one.
It's like I've done it enoughtimes when, even if it's a I'm
using air quotes a bad session,it's still enjoyable enough that
, like, I get something out ofit, or at the worst it's like an
(13:06):
hour and a half of my life, youknow.
So I can kind of understandthat.
But there's other situationswhere they are a lot scarier for
me now, and that's like most ofwhere my work is right now.
It's around expressingboundaries, and particularly
expressing boundaries in therelationships with the people
(13:28):
that are closest with me, likestating my needs and just being
scared that the people that Ilove aren't going to um I'm
going to listen to my needs orare going to decide that they
don't love me anymore once I saythem.
Sarah Kelly (13:42):
So relatable, yeah Right.
I mean, like, isn't that thereason we don't set boundaries
so often?
I think so.
Sarah Anne (13:51):
Yeah, I know it's.
It is.
For me, it's the number onereason I set boundaries when I
should.
Sarah Kelly (13:56):
Yeah, and when you take all of the people okay, the
people that are closest, thatlove your quirks, that think
they're adorable, that love youso much, and then you have to
say out loud, like somethingthat's happening or something
between us isn't working, um, weneed to change that.
It's like for me, it's like Idon't want to push away that
(14:17):
person that loves me so much.
Sarah Anne (14:20):
It's like those relationships we've worked so
hard for and like I don't wantto do anything that might um,
that might shake them up in abad way.
That might shake them up in abad way.
Sarah Kelly (14:32):
But I think what we've learned Because we use
ourselves as examples so much Isthat the boundaries within our
relationship have actually madeus stronger, and I think that's
what we always talk about withboundaries Like they're not.
What's that word?
Yeah, they're not restrictive.
They're not restrictive,they're expansive.
(14:54):
And the same goes in being seenand loved and walking through
the fear of boundaries.
Sarah Anne (14:57):
It's so true and that's exactly what I was going
to say.
Like anytime, and that's whythat's this is where my current
work is, but I feel like I'mdoing a good job with it.
Like the conversations that I'mhaving around boundaries are
still really scary to have, soscary to have, but I'm able to
be more myself after I have them, I'm able to get my needs met
(15:20):
and, more importantly, I'mreminded that the people that
love me want me to be supported.
Right Like they're not alwayseasy conversations from both
sides.
It's navigating, it'scompromising, but they still get
us to a much healthier placeand I think our relationship
shows that first and foremost.
But I see it in romanticrelationships, I see it with
(15:41):
other coworkers, with otherfriends.
It's like when I bring up thescary things that aren't working
in a relationship, that's whenour relationship gets closer
scary things that aren't workingin a relationship.
Sarah Kelly (15:52):
That's when our relationship gets closer Totally
, and I think with theboundaries goes the needs right,
like when I'm able to expressmy needs and when I'm able to do
so from a standpoint that'sstrong within myself of like I
am worthy of this, like actuallyI know that this is what I need
and it might not make sense toanyone else, but like I'm
important enough and that'staken many years, many, many
years, many.
Actually.
I know that this is what I needand it might not make sense to
anyone else, but like I'mimportant enough and that's
taken many years, many, manyyears, many, many years a
(16:15):
lifetime to like express thatand I think that's so.
It's the same.
You know, that same piece thatfear.
And I recently had aconversation where, like my
voice was almost shaking.
I was like I don't want you totake this in a way that makes
you feel bad, like this is justwhat I need.
Sarah Anne (16:34):
Yeah, and for people listening that are scared still
to have the conversation or tobe seen, I'll share a story of
when I stated a boundary and itwasn't well received and it
actually ended up breaking therelationship.
And I felt really good aboutthat too, right, even though it
was really scary to state myneed and even though it caused a
(16:58):
break in that relationship, Ifeel so much freer and so much
lighter and I have so much morespace and time for the
relationships where that valueis equal and where my needs are
being listened to and seen andnot just heard but celebrated.
And you deserve celebration.
Yeah, we all do.
(17:20):
Yeah, it's still scary to havethe conversations, but it's
think about what's the worstthat's going to happen and then
do it anyways, because that'sthe worst that's going to happen
.
Sarah Kelly (17:34):
And the worst sometimes happens.
The worst absolutely sometimeshappens.
Sometimes we're seen and itcomes against us and yet what
you just said is in the long run, maybe not the short run.
So those in the midst of it,like the short runs, often messy
(17:54):
.
The part of healing, the partof fear, the part of the hard
parts of all of this isn'treally pretty and it doesn't
feel real good.
And it's that one step in frontof the other, knowing that, no
matter what, you're okay andsomehow, through practice, I
think that's how you're able todo more and more.
Sarah Anne (18:16):
Every time that you're able to move through your
fear and act anyways, you'retaking a leap forward and your
own personal development, nomatter what the outcome is.
And that's just working thosemuscles, getting in that
practice and knowing andtrusting.
Working those muscles, gettingin that practice and knowing and
trusting it goes back to whatyou said early of your worth and
(18:36):
then making your actions.
No matter how scared you are toshow the world that worth,
you're going to start attractingthe people that see the worth,
celebrate that worth with you.
Even if it might take a coupleof months, it might take a
couple of years, if you justkeep making that action you're
going to see the results in areally beautiful way.
Sarah Kelly (18:58):
And I think super important to note here is we all
have that worth within.
So even if it's like a mustardseed of worth, like slightly in
there, it's actually the actionthat grows it.
So they work together.
So if there's just enough to belike, okay, I'm going to do it
anyway.
That muscle grows, that plantgrows, whatever analogy we're
(19:20):
going to use.
Sarah Anne (19:22):
And just to be clear , the worth inside of you is a
gorgeous blazing sun, right?
But you might only believe thatyou have that kernel right, and
it really is through thataction that allows us to start
stripping away our doubts.
Sarah Kelly (19:39):
I love that clarification because I was just
like what does my worth insidelook like?
And I was like, like what havewe all like made paintings of
our internal worth, of whatwould be there whether we
believe it or not?
Sarah Anne (19:51):
Yes, oh, optional homework Listen, do it and then,
and then send them to us orpost them online and tag us.
We want to see them.
We should do that, that wouldbe fun.
Sarah Kelly (20:05):
Yeah, so much fun.
I see like bursting flowers.
Sarah Anne (20:09):
I just see a great big sun, great big shining sun
hours.
Sarah Kelly (20:14):
I just see a great big sun, great big, shining sun.
I feel like I love that each ofus had an automatic thought.
So, listeners, tell us what youautomatically thought worth
would look like internally.
Sarah Anne (20:23):
And then use that image.
Use that picture to just bebrave.
Be brave whatever your nextaction might be, no matter if
it's small, bringing in a teacupto your work or big, setting
some boundaries with some lovedones or unloved ones.
And let us know how that goestoo.
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