March 25, 2025 • 23 mins
What if selling didn’t feel salesy at all?
In this episode of The Aspiring Solopreneur, Carly and Joe sit down with the brilliant Nikki Rausch, creator of the Selling Staircase and queen of relationship selling. Nikki breaks down how to ditch the pushy tactics and build trust through smart questions, real conversations, and—get this—actually asking permission to sell. (Novel concept, right?)
She spills the tea on the biggest sales mistakes people make (yes, those cringey LinkedIn messages) and how to flip the script with connection-first strategies that feel genuinely good—even if you’re totally allergic to sales.
Oh, and she’s got thoughts on why every solopreneur needs a high-ticket offer (and how to anchor it the right way).
Whether you’re new to sales or just tired of the icky stuff, this one’s going to be your secret weapon.
Tune in now and grab Nikki’s free training just for Aspiring Solopreneur listeners at yoursalesmaven.com/aspiring.
Being a solopreneur is awesome but it’s not easy. It's hard to get noticed. Most business advice is for bigger companies, and you're all alone...until now. LifeStarr Intro gives you free education, community, and tools to build a thriving one-person business. So, if you are lacking direction, having a hard time generating leads, or are having trouble keeping up with everything you have to do, or even just lonely running a company of one, be sure to check out LifeStarr Intro!
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Episode Transcript
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Carly Ries (00:00):
Ever feel like sales is something you do to someone
(00:02):
rather than with them? Well, ourguest today, Nikki Rausch, is
here to flip that script. Inthis episode, we dive into
relationship selling, a strategybuilt on trust, smart questions,
and genuine connections. Nikkibreaks down her selling
staircase framework, reveals whycold LinkedIn pitches are
failing miserably, and explainshow asking for permission can be
(00:23):
the game changer in your salesapproach. Plus, find out why
skipping steps in a salesconversation can cost you
clients, the one mistake evengreat salespeople make, and how
to create high end offers peopleactually want to buy.
Oh, and did we mention she'sgiving away a free training just
for our listeners? So don't missthis one. Your sales game and
revenue for that matter willthank you. You're listening to
(00:46):
the aspiring solopreneur, thepodcast for those just taking
the bold step or even justthinking about taking that step
into the world of soloentrepreneurship. My name is
Carly Reese, and my cohost, JoeRando, and I are your guides to
navigating this crazy butawesome journey as a company of
one.
We take pride in being part ofLifestar, a digital hub
(01:07):
dedicated to all aspects ofsolopreneurship that has
empowered and educated countlesssolopreneurs looking to build a
business that resonates withtheir life's ambitions. We help
people work to live, not live towork. And if you're looking for
a get rich quick scheme, this isnot the show for you. So if
you're eager to gain valuableinsights from industry experts
(01:27):
on running a business the rightway the first time around or
want to learn from the misstepsof solopreneurs who've paved the
way before you, then stickaround. We've got your back
because flying solo in businessdoesn't mean you're alone.
Oh, Nikki. I was just tellingyou this offline that I am so
excited to talk to a salesprofessional because I'm always
(01:48):
so intrigued by the differentapproaches, the different
methodologies, and you have somereally good tactics that people
should use and just a wholemethodology around it. So I just
kind of want to dive right inbecause I'm so intrigued by the
term relationship selling. Canyou kind of talk about what that
is and how it differs fromtraditional sales techniques?
Nikki Rausch (02:10):
Yeah, so kind of the most basic way to explain it
is I think a lot of times peoplethink sales is something that
you do to another person. And Ibelieve and teach that sales is
something you do with anotherperson. So it's about having
conversation. It's about askingreally smart questions. It's
about being a really goodlistener.
(02:30):
So from a relationshipstandpoint, and this comes from
my background in neurolinguistic programming, where
kind of the foundation, I don'tknow if you're familiar with
that term, but if not, it's thestudy of communication, really.
And I have a pretty extensivebackground in it. And the
foundation of it is built onrapport. So when I think about
relationship selling, and what Iteach is you have to have
(02:51):
rapport in place. So when youthink about selling, and whether
or not you have a relationship,there's a few key things, three
things really to keep in mind isone, does this person have a
need, or a want or a desire?
Do you have a solution thatmeets that need, that want or
desire? And here's the thirdmost critical piece, is do you
(03:11):
have permission to put an offerin front of them? And if you
have all three of those, likeyou're well on your way to
closing that deal, but if you'remissing that, then you're
essentially wasting people'stime and also your own.
Joe Rando (03:25):
So you're telling me that those people sending me in
mails in LinkedIn offering toasking me to hire them to do
whatever are making a mistake.That what you're
Nikki Rausch (03:35):
I'm I'm saying that is a huge mistake. It's
such a rapport breaker, right?Like how annoying is it? And off
putting is it when somebodyshows up unannounced and
immediately goes into, hey, Joe,here's all the things you're
doing wrong. Here's why yourYouTube channel isn't
successful.
Here's why you could be betteron LinkedIn. And oh, by the way,
(03:57):
you should hire me. I would saythat's the comparison of imagine
somebody comes up to you andthey got a piece of paper and
they swipe it across yourfinger. And you you start
bleeding and they go, oh,sweetheart, you poor little
thing. You're bleeding.
I saw band aids. And you'relike, yeah, because because you
cut me. That's why. Like, I'mnot gonna buy a band aid from
(04:18):
you. You cut me.
Carly Ries (04:19):
Yes. And I I I almost feel bad for these people
because maybe their product orservice is great. They're just
taking the wrong approach. Andthis is actually a good segue
into my last question. It's a ormy last.
My next question.
Joe Rando (04:31):
That was short.
Carly Ries (04:32):
What's the idea for you?
Nikki Rausch (04:34):
Get her out of here.
Carly Ries (04:36):
It's a really bad first impression. So how do you
create a positive firstimpression that establishes a
real connection that people wantto move forward with?
Nikki Rausch (04:47):
Well, there's a few ways to do this. So as a
solopreneur, I think a lot oftimes we're spending time
networking, right? And that canbe online and that can be
offline as well. So when youthink about your first
impression, the first thing todo is take a step back and ask
yourself, what is it like forsomebody to engage with me the
first time? So are they gettingthe, like what I call the word
(05:10):
vomit approach where it's likeme, me, me, here's all about me,
here's why I'm so great, blah,blah, blah.
And people go like, oh, theypush away a little bit from
that. Or are you engaging themwith a question? Are you are
they leading in? Do they feelwelcomed by you? And that
happens on your web page that,you know, on your on your
website, that happens on yoursocial media posts, and it
(05:32):
definitely happens in person.
And here's like an in person tipthat's gonna be so basic, you
might be like, duh, Nikki. Butyet a lot of people miss it, is
when you're introducingyourself, say your name.
Oftentimes when you're meetingsomebody, they'll be like, oh,
hi, nice to meet you. And thennow you have to be the person to
go, and your name is? But ifsomebody would make it easy for
(05:53):
you and be like, hi, it's sonice to meet you.
I'm Nikki Rausch. Now thatperson could go, oh, hi, Nikki.
You know, I'm Carly or I'm Joeor whatever. But it starts the
conversation of like, I'm gonnamake it as easy as possible for
you to engage with me and have aconversation.
Joe Rando (06:09):
So we do live events, you know, for solopreneurs for
free that they come in virtualevents. And one time Carly said
after probably doing, I don'tknow, 15 of these things said,
you know, you really should tellthem who you are before you
start. Oh, yeah.
Nikki Rausch (06:27):
Good point. Really good. Right?
Carly Ries (06:29):
Because he has a name that and it's so comical
with Joe Rando. Like, it couldbe a Joe Schmo or just is my
real name. I'm the founder ofLifestar.
Joe Rando (06:40):
Hashtag thanks millennials.
Carly Ries (06:42):
Love it. Exactly.
Joe Rando (06:44):
It was a perfectly good name until the millennials
came along.
Nikki Rausch (06:47):
Yeah. They ruined everything.
Carly Ries (06:49):
Yep. Sorry about that. So you were talking about
I like telling talking tosalespeople because they have
different approaches, salesexperts like you. You have the
idea of the selling staircase.Can you walk us through that?
Nikki Rausch (07:03):
Yeah, so the selling staircase is my
signature framework for a salesconversation, a successful sales
conversation. There are fivesteps in it. And the reason I
teach it as a staircase isbecause most people understand
that when you're at the bottomof a staircase, you ascend at
one step at a time. You don'tstand at the bottom of a
staircase and like hop to thetop step, right? And you
(07:24):
certainly don't walk up tosomebody you really don't have
like any relationship with yetand say, hey, hop up to that top
step, would you?
But yet in sales, oftentimeswe're skipping steps as the
seller. And when you skip steps,you leave people feeling like
confused, sometimes annoyed, andlike, why would I do that? Like
I might bang my shins or I'm notgoing to just stand it from a
(07:47):
standing position, hop up to thetop of a staircase, I'm going to
go one step at a time. So whenyou understand that there is a
structure to a successful salesconversation, and you know what
step you're on, it makes itreally easy for you as the
seller to know what to do or saynext. It also makes it really
easy for the buyer or theprospective buyer to kind of
(08:07):
follow along and be guidedthrough the process.
You know, you don't, you neverwant to be the person who's
standing outside the grocerystore being like accosting
somebody who's walking in, likebuy my thing, you know, and it's
like, oh my gosh, I'm just hereto pick up some milk. What's
going on?
Joe Rando (08:21):
Unless you're a Girl Scout.
Carly Ries (08:23):
I was just gonna say that now. Was like, they're the
one exception rule.
Nikki Rausch (08:29):
That is such a good point, Joe. And now they're
getting, you know, like, it'sit's almost girl scout season
too. Right? So this is this isgonna be coming around. But the
thing is is that we wanna justmake it it easy for people.
And the easier you make it forsomebody to buy from you, be in
conversation with you, the morelikely they are to like stick
around and take the next stepwith you. So these five steps
and I can go through them in asmuch details as you want. So
(08:51):
I'll just say right off theright off the bat, step one is
introduction. And we kind oftouched on that, like, are you
making a powerful firstimpression? Are you thinking
about the impression you'remaking?
And is there anything you coulddo to make it more inviting to
make it more welcoming forsomebody? Step two is the most
misstep in the salesconversation, and that's create
curiosity. If you don't know howto create curiosity when you're
(09:13):
talking about your business, theservices that you offer, the
clients that you work with,you'll actually miss out on
working with some of your bestclients because they don't know
what you know, they don't knowwhat's possible for them yet. We
have to peak their curiosity. Sothat's step two.
And once you do that, before weeven get to step three,
oftentimes when you piquesomeone's curiosity, they start
(09:35):
to lean in and they start togive you what I what I talk
about is buying signals. Buyingsignals are verbal and nonverbal
cues that people give thatindicate interest. Sometimes a
buying signal is like I'm readyto buy great, then you can skip
steps in that case. I would saylike, you can follow the client,
you don't get to skip steps asthe seller. But if the client's
like, here's my money, sign meup, then okay, they've skipped
(09:58):
the step to the close.
So step two, create curiosity,get a buying signal, move them
to step three, which is what I Idescribe it as the discovery
call, the discovery part of theconversation. Now you might call
it the sales consultation or theconsult call, it doesn't really
matter what you call it. But theobjective of this part of the
conversation is to reallyunderstand, do they have a need?
(10:22):
Do I have a solution that meetsthat? And do I get and can I get
permission to put an offer infront of them?
And you do that by asking reallysmart questions in this
discovery phase. And I alwayssay there's two types of
questions to ask. There's theright fit questions, and then
there's your expertisequestions. And the expertise
questions is instead of tryingto like convince somebody how
(10:44):
great you are, you actually canask really smart questions in
this section that leads them tobe like, my gosh, nobody's asked
me that. And that makes me wantto lean in and work with this
person because they're askinggreat questions.
So once we've establishedthey've got a need, I have a
solution, and I'm going to nowask permission, I'm going to
move them to step four, which isproposal. This is where you're
(11:07):
actually laying out the offer.Now, depending on the type of
business you have, this mayrequire a formal proposal, but
oftentimes it's just part of theconversation. And in the
proposal step, that's where youstand in your place of
expertise. And really, that'swhere the selling happens.
You're taking the informationthat you gathered in the
discovery, and you're deliveringback an offer that really speaks
(11:30):
to their need, the things thatthey've said are important,
their criteria. And then stepfive, which also goes very
closely with step four, andfrankly, is the second most
misstep in the the sales processis the close. And that's where
you're issuing close language.Now, it sounds like that means
like closing the deal andoftentimes it does. But it also
(11:51):
means that you have to attemptto close in order for that
person to, I always say there'sone of five things that happens
when you close.
They say yes, awesome, you got anew client. Number two is they
ask a question. And oftentimesif some part, if somebody has a
question, you have to answerthat question in order to earn
their business. I had a coachthat used to always say, Nikki,
(12:13):
people are one question awayfrom hiring you. And the piece
that I add to it is you have togive them the opportunity to ask
you that question.
You'll do that by issuing closebecause it'll bring up a
question they might have. Thethird thing that'll happen is
they'll voice an objection andthere's ways to overcome
objections. The fourth thing isthey'll say no, that's going to
happen from time to time, peopleare gonna, you know, decline
(12:34):
your offer. And the fifth thingthat will happen is they'll say,
I need to think about it. Andthat happens a lot.
And there's things to do whenyou get that type of response.
So those are the five steps,introduction, curiosity,
discovery, proposal and close.
Joe Rando (12:47):
I have a question. Because one of the things that,
you know, and I'm not a salesexpert. I did I was the world's
worst salesperson and decided tostudy it a bit and have gotten
significantly better. But and wecan talk about why I was so bad
on another time. But one of thethings that I've come to
understand, at least from myselfas a buyer, is and I think it's
(13:08):
implicit in your steps, but Ijust wanna kinda you maybe talk
through it a little bit, but isthat trust?
Right? So I'm dealing withsomebody, and they can do all
these things, but if if I don'ttrust them, I don't feel trust,
then I'm really reluctant towanna give them my money. And I
just wonder, you know, wheredoes that tie into in these
steps? Where should you betrying to really build that
trust?
Nikki Rausch (13:28):
You should be building it at every step. And
so one of the things that I talkabout and teach is that the way
that you move somebody from onestep to the next is through an
invitation. And when you'reinviting people and doing it in
the form of a question, you'reshowing that person, I respect
you, I'm listening. And you'rethe adult here, you get to make
(13:49):
the decision about where we'regoing next. So it's learning how
to issue invitations.
And when you show somebody thatyou're listening to them, you're
asking questions before youlaunch into your pitch, all of
those things, it shows that youcan trust me. I'm not here to
just like hard sell you. I'm nothere to shame you. I'm not gonna
hear, you know, to paper cut youand push on your pain points.
(14:12):
I'm here to understand do youhave a need?
Do I have a solution? And do Ihave your permission? And by
getting permission, it buildstrust. If you think about it,
Joe, I don't know if you wouldagree, but if somebody, you're
having a conversation withsomebody and you say something
and they go like, Oh my gosh, Ihave a solution. He should
totally do this.
Are you more apt to want tolisten to somebody's solution
(14:35):
when they say, You know, Joe, Imight have an idea for you. Is
it okay if I if I share it withyou? Versus somebody saying
like, Joe, you know what youshould do? You should totally do
this, this and this. And you'rekind of like, should, don't
should on me.
Like, I don't like it. But ifthey ask, hey, is it okay if I
offer this solution to you?You're probably more inclined to
wanna listen and it feels moretrustworthy, right? Like,
(14:58):
they're not gonna just like,bulldoze over me. They're
they're showing me respect.
Carly Ries (15:02):
It's funny because we have a monthly event for
solopreneurs where they can helpsolve each other's problems. And
our emcee every single monthsays, don't go shooting all over
shoulding all over everybodybecause that's kind of people's
first instinct. It's like, oh,well, you should do this
instead. You should do thisinstead. And you're right.
(15:22):
That I've never looked at itfrom that point. I've always
just said what George says, Joe.And but Nick, you said it so
succinctly. Also on the topic ofquestions, I am genuinely
curious about this curious aboutthis. Why do you believe people
should have high end offers?
Nikki Rausch (15:39):
Okay. The reason they should have high end offers
is because when you have a highend offer and you have other
offers that sit below it, yougive people this idea of choice.
And as consumers, we likechoice. So when you have a high
end offer, and let's say thatyou have, like I would say, it's
(16:00):
good to present somebody up tothree offers, never more than
three initially, because you'lloverwhelm them and an
overwhelmed mind does not buy.But if you think about what's
that offer you really, reallywanna sell?
And that frankly should be yourmiddle tier offer. And then you
create a high end offer thatsits above it. That's what's
known as an anchor offer. Sowhen you're laying out your
(16:21):
offer to somebody, you're gonnasay, you know, there are three
ways that you could work with mein a private coaching session.
For instance, I have the allinclusive six month program.
It has this, this and this. Andthen I have the kind of the
getting started package. Andthis is my mid tier and this is
my most popular offer. This isthe one you wanna sell by the
way. And you talk about that.
(16:42):
And then you go, or if you justwant to start with a strategy
session, that's like the mostbasic kind of getting started
thing. We could talk about thattoo. And you present it in
what's known as top downselling. So you present your
high end offer first, then yourmiddle and then your bottom. Now
what you're doing to the personwho's in that decision making
process, they're looking at itgoing, well, I don't like to
(17:05):
have things taken away.
Like as humans, I would say likebabies come out of the womb
already knowing how to dosomething, grasp. Like if you're
a woman with long hair, you knowthis because you hold a brand
new baby and it gets a hold ofyour hair and you're like, I'm
never getting that hair back.Like it's going with the hand,
right? So we as humans know howto grasp and we grasp onto
(17:26):
things. So So when you do topdown selling, what you're
essentially doing is saying tothe person like, hey, if you're
willing to give up these things,which most of us don't want to
give things up, then you cansave yourself money, right?
If you want to work down. Butmost people do it the opposite
way. They start at their leastexpensive and then work their
(17:47):
way up, which is essentiallysaying to the brain, you have to
spend more to get what youreally want. Versus like, hey,
you give this up. And nowthey'll make a more educated
decision that is a better fitfor them because it's not all
based on the money.
It's about getting the solutionthat is gonna best meet their
(18:10):
needs.
Joe Rando (18:10):
Question on that. That's really, really
interesting. But with thispremium offer that you really
you said you you really wannasell your middle offer. So does
this premium offer, do you priceit in such a way that pretty
much nobody takes it? Or do youprice it just to the level where
you go, I'm I'm okay with thatat that price?
How do you think about I
Nikki Rausch (18:30):
price it to where if somebody takes it, I'm gonna
be delighted to serve to serveit. I have actually made this
mistake. Made this mistake abouttwo years ago, I put together a
really high end offer. It was myanchor offer. And somebody chose
it.
And oh my gosh, it was so muchwork. And I realized later, like
I probably undercharged by about$2,500. So so then I go, okay,
(18:55):
Nikki, like if somebody sells ifsomebody says I want that, I
should be delighted aboutdelivering it, not feeling like,
my goodness. That's gonna be sohard. So price it in a way that
makes sense, that you will feelreally good and excited to
deliver it.
And it's a stretch, like it's astretch for somebody to be like,
(19:15):
I want I want as much Joe in mylife as I can possibly get. I
want to learn everything that Ican possibly learn from you in
the next six months or a year orwhatever the program is, twelve
weeks, whatever, you know, yourhigh end offer is. You want to
be delighted that they chose itand you want to be excited about
delivering it. Otherwise, you'reyou're kind of doing a
(19:37):
disservice, especially as asolopreneur because we get to
decide about our offers, We getto price them, we get to decide
what goes in the package. Sobuild something you'll be
excited to sell.
Joe Rando (19:48):
Okay.
Carly Ries (19:49):
Joe, I don't know about you, my wheels are turning
right now. Yep. Either at a goodtime or not a good time. Well,
Nikki, I like I said, this isall just so fascinating. It's
funny because I'm one of thepeople that has always been
afraid of sales.
I I don't like asking people forthings. It's just not natural to
me, but I am a naturalrelationship builder. And you
(20:12):
marrying the two just makes itso much easier to approach. And
I I think and I know a lot ofour audience feels the same way.
So I really wanna thank you forcoming on the show.
But we cannot end it withoutasking you the the question we
ask all of our guests. What isyour favorite quote about
success?
Nikki Rausch (20:30):
My all time favorite quote about quotes and
success is blessed are theflexible, for they shall not be
bent out of shape. And I reallyteach and I believe that the
more flexible you are in aconversation, the more influence
you have. And the more influenceyou have, the higher your
success rate. So it is aboutlearning how to add flexibility
(20:50):
to your behavior so that thingsdon't, you know, they don't
knock you off course, you don'thave to get flustered in the
conversation, and you can putthe other person at ease.
Joe Rando (21:02):
You know, something you said during this call was
the idea of somebody says, yeah,I wanna buy. You're like, well,
you can skip steps. And I haveliterally seen salespeople where
it's like, I'm in. I want it.And then they make me sit there
for another twenty minutes whilethey go through their it's like,
what was what is the the saying?
If you made the sales stoptalking, is that it?
Nikki Rausch (21:21):
Yeah, it's called selling past the close. As soon
as somebody's ready to buy, youtake that you take the money.
Joe Rando (21:26):
So being flex be flexible. And I got it. I love
it. Great stuff.
Carly Ries (21:30):
Love it too. Well, Nikki, we know you have a great
podcast. You just have so muchgoing on. Where can people find
you if they wanna learn more?
Nikki Rausch (21:39):
Well, can I wrap it around a gift for your
listener? Is that okay?
Joe Rando (21:42):
Gifts.
Carly Ries (21:42):
Okay. You asked permission. Did everybody see
that? Hear that?
Nikki Rausch (21:49):
The permission is such a it's a it's a key
critical thing for relationshipselling. So I have a training I
normally charge for it. It'scalled seal the deal. And I
really dig into those questionsthat you should be asking in
your consult. What are the rightfit questions?
And what are your expertisequestions? So I'll gift this to
your audience, and they can getit by going to
(22:10):
yoursalesmaven.com/aspiring. Sothis is specifically for your
solopreneurs. I would love togive this training to you. You
will walk away with a new way toask questions and new questions
to have in your back pocket toreally convert your consultation
calls.
Carly Ries (22:27):
We'll take the You don't need to keep selling.
We'll take it. Well, Nikki,thank you so much. That's very
generous of you. Yeah.
Know Definitely. Will appreciateit. And we can't thank you
enough for coming on today.
Nikki Rausch (22:41):
Thanks for having me and for the conversation and
the questions. Thank you somuch.
Carly Ries (22:44):
Of course.
Joe Rando (22:45):
Thanks, Vicky.
Carly Ries (22:45):
Listeners, you know the spiel. We'd love that five
star review. Please subscribe onyour favorite podcast platform,
including YouTube, and we willsee you next time on the
aspiring solopreneur. You may begoing solo in business, but that
doesn't mean you're alone. Infact, millions of people are in
your shoes, running a one personbusiness and figuring it out as
(23:06):
they go.
So why not connect with them andlearn from each other's
successes and failures? AtLifestar, we're creating a one
person business community whereyou can go to meet and get
advice from other solopreneurs.Be sure to join in on the
conversations atcommunity.lifestar.com. That's
community.lifestarwith2r's.com.
Ever feel like sales is something you do to someone
(00:02):
rather than with them? Well, ourguest today, Nikki Rausch, is
here to flip that script. Inthis episode, we dive into
relationship selling, a strategybuilt on trust, smart questions,
and genuine connections. Nikkibreaks down her selling
staircase framework, reveals whycold LinkedIn pitches are
failing miserably, and explainshow asking for permission can be
(00:23):
the game changer in your salesapproach. Plus, find out why
skipping steps in a salesconversation can cost you
clients, the one mistake evengreat salespeople make, and how
to create high end offers peopleactually want to buy.
Oh, and did we mention she'sgiving away a free training just
for our listeners? So don't missthis one. Your sales game and
revenue for that matter willthank you. You're listening to
(00:46):
the aspiring solopreneur, thepodcast for those just taking
the bold step or even justthinking about taking that step
into the world of soloentrepreneurship. My name is
Carly Reese, and my cohost, JoeRando, and I are your guides to
navigating this crazy butawesome journey as a company of
one.
We take pride in being part ofLifestar, a digital hub
(01:07):
dedicated to all aspects ofsolopreneurship that has
empowered and educated countlesssolopreneurs looking to build a
business that resonates withtheir life's ambitions. We help
people work to live, not live towork. And if you're looking for
a get rich quick scheme, this isnot the show for you. So if
you're eager to gain valuableinsights from industry experts
(01:27):
on running a business the rightway the first time around or
want to learn from the misstepsof solopreneurs who've paved the
way before you, then stickaround. We've got your back
because flying solo in businessdoesn't mean you're alone.
Oh, Nikki. I was just tellingyou this offline that I am so
excited to talk to a salesprofessional because I'm always
(01:48):
so intrigued by the differentapproaches, the different
methodologies, and you have somereally good tactics that people
should use and just a wholemethodology around it. So I just
kind of want to dive right inbecause I'm so intrigued by the
term relationship selling. Canyou kind of talk about what that
is and how it differs fromtraditional sales techniques?
Nikki Rausch (02:10):
Yeah, so kind of the most basic way to explain it
is I think a lot of times peoplethink sales is something that
you do to another person. And Ibelieve and teach that sales is
something you do with anotherperson. So it's about having
conversation. It's about askingreally smart questions. It's
about being a really goodlistener.
(02:30):
So from a relationshipstandpoint, and this comes from
my background in neurolinguistic programming, where
kind of the foundation, I don'tknow if you're familiar with
that term, but if not, it's thestudy of communication, really.
And I have a pretty extensivebackground in it. And the
foundation of it is built onrapport. So when I think about
relationship selling, and what Iteach is you have to have
(02:51):
rapport in place. So when youthink about selling, and whether
or not you have a relationship,there's a few key things, three
things really to keep in mind isone, does this person have a
need, or a want or a desire?
Do you have a solution thatmeets that need, that want or
desire? And here's the thirdmost critical piece, is do you
(03:11):
have permission to put an offerin front of them? And if you
have all three of those, likeyou're well on your way to
closing that deal, but if you'remissing that, then you're
essentially wasting people'stime and also your own.
Joe Rando (03:25):
So you're telling me that those people sending me in
mails in LinkedIn offering toasking me to hire them to do
whatever are making a mistake.That what you're
Nikki Rausch (03:35):
I'm I'm saying that is a huge mistake. It's
such a rapport breaker, right?Like how annoying is it? And off
putting is it when somebodyshows up unannounced and
immediately goes into, hey, Joe,here's all the things you're
doing wrong. Here's why yourYouTube channel isn't
successful.
Here's why you could be betteron LinkedIn. And oh, by the way,
(03:57):
you should hire me. I would saythat's the comparison of imagine
somebody comes up to you andthey got a piece of paper and
they swipe it across yourfinger. And you you start
bleeding and they go, oh,sweetheart, you poor little
thing. You're bleeding.
I saw band aids. And you'relike, yeah, because because you
cut me. That's why. Like, I'mnot gonna buy a band aid from
(04:18):
you. You cut me.
Carly Ries (04:19):
Yes. And I I I almost feel bad for these people
because maybe their product orservice is great. They're just
taking the wrong approach. Andthis is actually a good segue
into my last question. It's a ormy last.
My next question.
Joe Rando (04:31):
That was short.
Carly Ries (04:32):
What's the idea for you?
Nikki Rausch (04:34):
Get her out of here.
Carly Ries (04:36):
It's a really bad first impression. So how do you
create a positive firstimpression that establishes a
real connection that people wantto move forward with?
Nikki Rausch (04:47):
Well, there's a few ways to do this. So as a
solopreneur, I think a lot oftimes we're spending time
networking, right? And that canbe online and that can be
offline as well. So when youthink about your first
impression, the first thing todo is take a step back and ask
yourself, what is it like forsomebody to engage with me the
first time? So are they gettingthe, like what I call the word
(05:10):
vomit approach where it's likeme, me, me, here's all about me,
here's why I'm so great, blah,blah, blah.
And people go like, oh, theypush away a little bit from
that. Or are you engaging themwith a question? Are you are
they leading in? Do they feelwelcomed by you? And that
happens on your web page that,you know, on your on your
website, that happens on yoursocial media posts, and it
(05:32):
definitely happens in person.
And here's like an in person tipthat's gonna be so basic, you
might be like, duh, Nikki. Butyet a lot of people miss it, is
when you're introducingyourself, say your name.
Oftentimes when you're meetingsomebody, they'll be like, oh,
hi, nice to meet you. And thennow you have to be the person to
go, and your name is? But ifsomebody would make it easy for
(05:53):
you and be like, hi, it's sonice to meet you.
I'm Nikki Rausch. Now thatperson could go, oh, hi, Nikki.
You know, I'm Carly or I'm Joeor whatever. But it starts the
conversation of like, I'm gonnamake it as easy as possible for
you to engage with me and have aconversation.
Joe Rando (06:09):
So we do live events, you know, for solopreneurs for
free that they come in virtualevents. And one time Carly said
after probably doing, I don'tknow, 15 of these things said,
you know, you really should tellthem who you are before you
start. Oh, yeah.
Nikki Rausch (06:27):
Good point. Really good. Right?
Carly Ries (06:29):
Because he has a name that and it's so comical
with Joe Rando. Like, it couldbe a Joe Schmo or just is my
real name. I'm the founder ofLifestar.
Joe Rando (06:40):
Hashtag thanks millennials.
Carly Ries (06:42):
Love it. Exactly.
Joe Rando (06:44):
It was a perfectly good name until the millennials
came along.
Nikki Rausch (06:47):
Yeah. They ruined everything.
Carly Ries (06:49):
Yep. Sorry about that. So you were talking about
I like telling talking tosalespeople because they have
different approaches, salesexperts like you. You have the
idea of the selling staircase.Can you walk us through that?
Nikki Rausch (07:03):
Yeah, so the selling staircase is my
signature framework for a salesconversation, a successful sales
conversation. There are fivesteps in it. And the reason I
teach it as a staircase isbecause most people understand
that when you're at the bottomof a staircase, you ascend at
one step at a time. You don'tstand at the bottom of a
staircase and like hop to thetop step, right? And you
(07:24):
certainly don't walk up tosomebody you really don't have
like any relationship with yetand say, hey, hop up to that top
step, would you?
But yet in sales, oftentimeswe're skipping steps as the
seller. And when you skip steps,you leave people feeling like
confused, sometimes annoyed, andlike, why would I do that? Like
I might bang my shins or I'm notgoing to just stand it from a
(07:47):
standing position, hop up to thetop of a staircase, I'm going to
go one step at a time. So whenyou understand that there is a
structure to a successful salesconversation, and you know what
step you're on, it makes itreally easy for you as the
seller to know what to do or saynext. It also makes it really
easy for the buyer or theprospective buyer to kind of
(08:07):
follow along and be guidedthrough the process.
You know, you don't, you neverwant to be the person who's
standing outside the grocerystore being like accosting
somebody who's walking in, likebuy my thing, you know, and it's
like, oh my gosh, I'm just hereto pick up some milk. What's
going on?
Joe Rando (08:21):
Unless you're a Girl Scout.
Carly Ries (08:23):
I was just gonna say that now. Was like, they're the
one exception rule.
Nikki Rausch (08:29):
That is such a good point, Joe. And now they're
getting, you know, like, it'sit's almost girl scout season
too. Right? So this is this isgonna be coming around. But the
thing is is that we wanna justmake it it easy for people.
And the easier you make it forsomebody to buy from you, be in
conversation with you, the morelikely they are to like stick
around and take the next stepwith you. So these five steps
and I can go through them in asmuch details as you want. So
(08:51):
I'll just say right off theright off the bat, step one is
introduction. And we kind oftouched on that, like, are you
making a powerful firstimpression? Are you thinking
about the impression you'remaking?
And is there anything you coulddo to make it more inviting to
make it more welcoming forsomebody? Step two is the most
misstep in the salesconversation, and that's create
curiosity. If you don't know howto create curiosity when you're
(09:13):
talking about your business, theservices that you offer, the
clients that you work with,you'll actually miss out on
working with some of your bestclients because they don't know
what you know, they don't knowwhat's possible for them yet. We
have to peak their curiosity. Sothat's step two.
And once you do that, before weeven get to step three,
oftentimes when you piquesomeone's curiosity, they start
(09:35):
to lean in and they start togive you what I what I talk
about is buying signals. Buyingsignals are verbal and nonverbal
cues that people give thatindicate interest. Sometimes a
buying signal is like I'm readyto buy great, then you can skip
steps in that case. I would saylike, you can follow the client,
you don't get to skip steps asthe seller. But if the client's
like, here's my money, sign meup, then okay, they've skipped
(09:58):
the step to the close.
So step two, create curiosity,get a buying signal, move them
to step three, which is what I Idescribe it as the discovery
call, the discovery part of theconversation. Now you might call
it the sales consultation or theconsult call, it doesn't really
matter what you call it. But theobjective of this part of the
conversation is to reallyunderstand, do they have a need?
(10:22):
Do I have a solution that meetsthat? And do I get and can I get
permission to put an offer infront of them?
And you do that by asking reallysmart questions in this
discovery phase. And I alwayssay there's two types of
questions to ask. There's theright fit questions, and then
there's your expertisequestions. And the expertise
questions is instead of tryingto like convince somebody how
(10:44):
great you are, you actually canask really smart questions in
this section that leads them tobe like, my gosh, nobody's asked
me that. And that makes me wantto lean in and work with this
person because they're askinggreat questions.
So once we've establishedthey've got a need, I have a
solution, and I'm going to nowask permission, I'm going to
move them to step four, which isproposal. This is where you're
(11:07):
actually laying out the offer.Now, depending on the type of
business you have, this mayrequire a formal proposal, but
oftentimes it's just part of theconversation. And in the
proposal step, that's where youstand in your place of
expertise. And really, that'swhere the selling happens.
You're taking the informationthat you gathered in the
discovery, and you're deliveringback an offer that really speaks
(11:30):
to their need, the things thatthey've said are important,
their criteria. And then stepfive, which also goes very
closely with step four, andfrankly, is the second most
misstep in the the sales processis the close. And that's where
you're issuing close language.Now, it sounds like that means
like closing the deal andoftentimes it does. But it also
(11:51):
means that you have to attemptto close in order for that
person to, I always say there'sone of five things that happens
when you close.
They say yes, awesome, you got anew client. Number two is they
ask a question. And oftentimesif some part, if somebody has a
question, you have to answerthat question in order to earn
their business. I had a coachthat used to always say, Nikki,
(12:13):
people are one question awayfrom hiring you. And the piece
that I add to it is you have togive them the opportunity to ask
you that question.
You'll do that by issuing closebecause it'll bring up a
question they might have. Thethird thing that'll happen is
they'll voice an objection andthere's ways to overcome
objections. The fourth thing isthey'll say no, that's going to
happen from time to time, peopleare gonna, you know, decline
(12:34):
your offer. And the fifth thingthat will happen is they'll say,
I need to think about it. Andthat happens a lot.
And there's things to do whenyou get that type of response.
So those are the five steps,introduction, curiosity,
discovery, proposal and close.
Joe Rando (12:47):
I have a question. Because one of the things that,
you know, and I'm not a salesexpert. I did I was the world's
worst salesperson and decided tostudy it a bit and have gotten
significantly better. But and wecan talk about why I was so bad
on another time. But one of thethings that I've come to
understand, at least from myselfas a buyer, is and I think it's
(13:08):
implicit in your steps, but Ijust wanna kinda you maybe talk
through it a little bit, but isthat trust?
Right? So I'm dealing withsomebody, and they can do all
these things, but if if I don'ttrust them, I don't feel trust,
then I'm really reluctant towanna give them my money. And I
just wonder, you know, wheredoes that tie into in these
steps? Where should you betrying to really build that
trust?
Nikki Rausch (13:28):
You should be building it at every step. And
so one of the things that I talkabout and teach is that the way
that you move somebody from onestep to the next is through an
invitation. And when you'reinviting people and doing it in
the form of a question, you'reshowing that person, I respect
you, I'm listening. And you'rethe adult here, you get to make
(13:49):
the decision about where we'regoing next. So it's learning how
to issue invitations.
And when you show somebody thatyou're listening to them, you're
asking questions before youlaunch into your pitch, all of
those things, it shows that youcan trust me. I'm not here to
just like hard sell you. I'm nothere to shame you. I'm not gonna
hear, you know, to paper cut youand push on your pain points.
(14:12):
I'm here to understand do youhave a need?
Do I have a solution? And do Ihave your permission? And by
getting permission, it buildstrust. If you think about it,
Joe, I don't know if you wouldagree, but if somebody, you're
having a conversation withsomebody and you say something
and they go like, Oh my gosh, Ihave a solution. He should
totally do this.
Are you more apt to want tolisten to somebody's solution
(14:35):
when they say, You know, Joe, Imight have an idea for you. Is
it okay if I if I share it withyou? Versus somebody saying
like, Joe, you know what youshould do? You should totally do
this, this and this. And you'rekind of like, should, don't
should on me.
Like, I don't like it. But ifthey ask, hey, is it okay if I
offer this solution to you?You're probably more inclined to
wanna listen and it feels moretrustworthy, right? Like,
(14:58):
they're not gonna just like,bulldoze over me. They're
they're showing me respect.
Carly Ries (15:02):
It's funny because we have a monthly event for
solopreneurs where they can helpsolve each other's problems. And
our emcee every single monthsays, don't go shooting all over
shoulding all over everybodybecause that's kind of people's
first instinct. It's like, oh,well, you should do this
instead. You should do thisinstead. And you're right.
(15:22):
That I've never looked at itfrom that point. I've always
just said what George says, Joe.And but Nick, you said it so
succinctly. Also on the topic ofquestions, I am genuinely
curious about this curious aboutthis. Why do you believe people
should have high end offers?
Nikki Rausch (15:39):
Okay. The reason they should have high end offers
is because when you have a highend offer and you have other
offers that sit below it, yougive people this idea of choice.
And as consumers, we likechoice. So when you have a high
end offer, and let's say thatyou have, like I would say, it's
(16:00):
good to present somebody up tothree offers, never more than
three initially, because you'lloverwhelm them and an
overwhelmed mind does not buy.But if you think about what's
that offer you really, reallywanna sell?
And that frankly should be yourmiddle tier offer. And then you
create a high end offer thatsits above it. That's what's
known as an anchor offer. Sowhen you're laying out your
(16:21):
offer to somebody, you're gonnasay, you know, there are three
ways that you could work with mein a private coaching session.
For instance, I have the allinclusive six month program.
It has this, this and this. Andthen I have the kind of the
getting started package. Andthis is my mid tier and this is
my most popular offer. This isthe one you wanna sell by the
way. And you talk about that.
(16:42):
And then you go, or if you justwant to start with a strategy
session, that's like the mostbasic kind of getting started
thing. We could talk about thattoo. And you present it in
what's known as top downselling. So you present your
high end offer first, then yourmiddle and then your bottom. Now
what you're doing to the personwho's in that decision making
process, they're looking at itgoing, well, I don't like to
(17:05):
have things taken away.
Like as humans, I would say likebabies come out of the womb
already knowing how to dosomething, grasp. Like if you're
a woman with long hair, you knowthis because you hold a brand
new baby and it gets a hold ofyour hair and you're like, I'm
never getting that hair back.Like it's going with the hand,
right? So we as humans know howto grasp and we grasp onto
(17:26):
things. So So when you do topdown selling, what you're
essentially doing is saying tothe person like, hey, if you're
willing to give up these things,which most of us don't want to
give things up, then you cansave yourself money, right?
If you want to work down. Butmost people do it the opposite
way. They start at their leastexpensive and then work their
(17:47):
way up, which is essentiallysaying to the brain, you have to
spend more to get what youreally want. Versus like, hey,
you give this up. And nowthey'll make a more educated
decision that is a better fitfor them because it's not all
based on the money.
It's about getting the solutionthat is gonna best meet their
(18:10):
needs.
Joe Rando (18:10):
Question on that. That's really, really
interesting. But with thispremium offer that you really
you said you you really wannasell your middle offer. So does
this premium offer, do you priceit in such a way that pretty
much nobody takes it? Or do youprice it just to the level where
you go, I'm I'm okay with thatat that price?
How do you think about I
Nikki Rausch (18:30):
price it to where if somebody takes it, I'm gonna
be delighted to serve to serveit. I have actually made this
mistake. Made this mistake abouttwo years ago, I put together a
really high end offer. It was myanchor offer. And somebody chose
it.
And oh my gosh, it was so muchwork. And I realized later, like
I probably undercharged by about$2,500. So so then I go, okay,
(18:55):
Nikki, like if somebody sells ifsomebody says I want that, I
should be delighted aboutdelivering it, not feeling like,
my goodness. That's gonna be sohard. So price it in a way that
makes sense, that you will feelreally good and excited to
deliver it.
And it's a stretch, like it's astretch for somebody to be like,
(19:15):
I want I want as much Joe in mylife as I can possibly get. I
want to learn everything that Ican possibly learn from you in
the next six months or a year orwhatever the program is, twelve
weeks, whatever, you know, yourhigh end offer is. You want to
be delighted that they chose itand you want to be excited about
delivering it. Otherwise, you'reyou're kind of doing a
(19:37):
disservice, especially as asolopreneur because we get to
decide about our offers, We getto price them, we get to decide
what goes in the package. Sobuild something you'll be
excited to sell.
Joe Rando (19:48):
Okay.
Carly Ries (19:49):
Joe, I don't know about you, my wheels are turning
right now. Yep. Either at a goodtime or not a good time. Well,
Nikki, I like I said, this isall just so fascinating. It's
funny because I'm one of thepeople that has always been
afraid of sales.
I I don't like asking people forthings. It's just not natural to
me, but I am a naturalrelationship builder. And you
(20:12):
marrying the two just makes itso much easier to approach. And
I I think and I know a lot ofour audience feels the same way.
So I really wanna thank you forcoming on the show.
But we cannot end it withoutasking you the the question we
ask all of our guests. What isyour favorite quote about
success?
Nikki Rausch (20:30):
My all time favorite quote about quotes and
success is blessed are theflexible, for they shall not be
bent out of shape. And I reallyteach and I believe that the
more flexible you are in aconversation, the more influence
you have. And the more influenceyou have, the higher your
success rate. So it is aboutlearning how to add flexibility
(20:50):
to your behavior so that thingsdon't, you know, they don't
knock you off course, you don'thave to get flustered in the
conversation, and you can putthe other person at ease.
Joe Rando (21:02):
You know, something you said during this call was
the idea of somebody says, yeah,I wanna buy. You're like, well,
you can skip steps. And I haveliterally seen salespeople where
it's like, I'm in. I want it.And then they make me sit there
for another twenty minutes whilethey go through their it's like,
what was what is the the saying?
If you made the sales stoptalking, is that it?
Nikki Rausch (21:21):
Yeah, it's called selling past the close. As soon
as somebody's ready to buy, youtake that you take the money.
Joe Rando (21:26):
So being flex be flexible. And I got it. I love
it. Great stuff.
Carly Ries (21:30):
Love it too. Well, Nikki, we know you have a great
podcast. You just have so muchgoing on. Where can people find
you if they wanna learn more?
Nikki Rausch (21:39):
Well, can I wrap it around a gift for your
listener? Is that okay?
Joe Rando (21:42):
Gifts.
Carly Ries (21:42):
Okay. You asked permission. Did everybody see
that? Hear that?
Nikki Rausch (21:49):
The permission is such a it's a it's a key
critical thing for relationshipselling. So I have a training I
normally charge for it. It'scalled seal the deal. And I
really dig into those questionsthat you should be asking in
your consult. What are the rightfit questions?
And what are your expertisequestions? So I'll gift this to
your audience, and they can getit by going to
(22:10):
yoursalesmaven.com/aspiring. Sothis is specifically for your
solopreneurs. I would love togive this training to you. You
will walk away with a new way toask questions and new questions
to have in your back pocket toreally convert your consultation
calls.
Carly Ries (22:27):
We'll take the You don't need to keep selling.
We'll take it. Well, Nikki,thank you so much. That's very
generous of you. Yeah.
Know Definitely. Will appreciateit. And we can't thank you
enough for coming on today.
Nikki Rausch (22:41):
Thanks for having me and for the conversation and
the questions. Thank you somuch.
Carly Ries (22:44):
Of course.
Joe Rando (22:45):
Thanks, Vicky.
Carly Ries (22:45):
Listeners, you know the spiel. We'd love that five
star review. Please subscribe onyour favorite podcast platform,
including YouTube, and we willsee you next time on the
aspiring solopreneur. You may begoing solo in business, but that
doesn't mean you're alone. Infact, millions of people are in
your shoes, running a one personbusiness and figuring it out as
(23:06):
they go.
So why not connect with them andlearn from each other's
successes and failures? AtLifestar, we're creating a one
person business community whereyou can go to meet and get
advice from other solopreneurs.Be sure to join in on the
conversations atcommunity.lifestar.com. That's
community.lifestarwith2r's.com.
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