July 8, 2025 • 26 mins
What do branding yourself, redefining freedom, and learning how to actually sell have in common? Solopreneur coach Moe Choice breaks it all down in this wildly refreshing episode. From bouncing back after burnout and bankruptcy to building 15K+ months, Moe shares the mindset shifts and practical skills that truly move the needle.
If you're tired of vague advice and ready to get real about positioning, marketing, and building a business on your terms, this one’s a must-listen.
Being a solopreneur is awesome but it’s not easy. It's hard to get noticed. Most business advice is for bigger companies, and you're all alone...until now. LifeStarr Intro gives you free education, community, and tools to build a thriving one-person business. So, if you are lacking direction, having a hard time generating leads, or are having trouble keeping up with everything you have to do, or even just lonely running a company of one, be sure to check out LifeStarr Intro!
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Carly Ries (00:00):
What if the secret to solopreneur success wasn't
(00:02):
working harder, but positioningsmarter, marketing better, and
learning how to persuade like apro? Well, in this episode of
the aspiring solopreneur, we sitdown with the insightful,
hilarious, and refreshinglyhonest Moe Choice. Someone who
went from burnout and bankruptcyto earning $50,000 months while
living life completely on histerms. Moe shares how he built
(00:24):
his 6 figure freedom framework,why expertise alone won't get
you clients, and how to design asolopreneur lifestyle rooted in
freedom, not just finances. Healso shares wisdom about
personal branding, time freedom,and the myth of passive income.
Whether you're just starting outor trying to break through a
plateau, this episode is packedwith mindset shifts and real
(00:45):
world tactics to help you growsmarter, not just busier. You're
listening to the AspiringSolopreneur, the podcast for
those just taking the bold stepor even just thinking about
taking that step into the worldof solo entrepreneurship. My
name is Carly Ries and my cohostJoe Rando and I are your guides
to navigating this crazy butawesome journey as a company of
(01:07):
one. We take pride in being partof LifeStarr, a digital hub
dedicated to all aspects ofsolopreneurship that has
empowered and educated countlesssolopreneurs looking to build a
business that resonates withtheir life's ambitions. We help
people work to live, not live towork.
And if you're looking for a getrich quick scheme, this is not
the show for you. So if you'reeager to gain valuable insights
(01:30):
from industry experts on runninga business the right way the
first time around or want tolearn from the missteps of
solopreneurs who paved the waybefore you, then stick around.
We've got your back becauseflying solo in business doesn't
mean you're alone. Moe, evenjust talking to you offline, I'm
like, you're my cup of tea. I amso thrilled and excited for this
(01:51):
conversation.
Before we dive into it, I mean,you help solopreneurs day in and
day out, similar to what we do.I wanna know what you wish you
had known before you became asolopreneur.
Moe Choice (02:03):
first of all, I wish I knew that I was already a
solopreneur because I look atsolopreneurship a little bit
different than most people. So Ididn't know that I could turn my
value into a brand. I thought tobe a solo brand, a personal
(02:25):
brand, a solo operator, you haveto be super talented musician,
actor, comedian, artist,athlete, chef, something like
that. And I was like, why thehell is anyone gonna care about
my personal brand? So what Iwish I knew is there's no
negative ROI on your personalbrand and you should start
(02:48):
building it as soon as possible.
Carly Ries (02:50):
Cool. That is such such good information. I mean, I
feel like we're just gonna havelittle nuggets of wisdom like
that because like I said, youwork with solopreneurs day in
and day out. You are one. So I'mkinda like, let's just pick your
brain about what you've learnedand what you know and say how we
can apply it to other people.
Well let's start with yourpersonal journey. How did you go
from bankruptcy and burnout tofifty k plus months on your own?
(03:14):
And with your really coollifestyle, by the way.
Moe Choice (03:18):
I don't know. I still don't know what I'm doing.
okay. So to succeed in life, Ithink you need to know three
things. How to position yourselfproperly to the market really.
The only thing we care about isthe market. How do you position
yourself even if you're lookingfor a job, how do you position
(03:40):
yourself properly in the jobmarket? If you're looking for a
new football team, how do youposition yourself properly to
the football teams? It's thesame idea. So how do I position
myself properly to get theattention of the people I want
and to get them to see what Iwant them to see?
That's the first thing we haveto learn. The second thing is
how do we then test the marketand adapt to the market because
(04:01):
the market changes. It's amillion variables constantly
changing. There's no one this ishow it is and this is how the
market works. There's no suchthing.
So it's how do I how do we adaptto the feedback from the market?
Because she will give youfeedback very quickly and you
need to be able to adapt to thefeedback to be able to then
manipulate the market in as muchas you can. Or work within the
(04:24):
market forces, let's say. Somarketing, we can say, right?
And then the third thing ispersuasion.
How do I get people to do thethings I want them to do? And I
think anyone should want tolearn all three no matter what
you want to do in your life. Andso all I did was try to upskill
(04:45):
myself, my competence in thosethree areas, and I kept doing
that and until I got here, andI'll keep doing that until I get
to wherever the next place is.
Joe Rando (04:55):
Very cool.
Carly Ries (04:56):
Yeah. You obviously have a resilient mindset too.
You're like, I'm just gonna keepgoing. whatever, I'm gonna keep
going. How can people get thatmindset?
Moe Choice (05:04):
Well here's the caveat. I don't have kids. I
don't have any dependencies. Noone relies on me for anything.
That's liberating in many waysbecause and also I'm quite happy
to live under a bridge, I don'tmean that literally because if
things don't work out, I think Ican walk into a fast food joint
(05:24):
or a bar and get a job, and Ithink I can probably work my way
up to manager pretty quickly.
So the worst case scenario, I'llbe working in an industry I
love. I love hospitality, and Ilove being hospitable. So worst
case scenario, I'll be workingin hospitality, an industry that
I love, probably in a reallygood job. So it's like, so what
(05:47):
does it matter if I fail? Realquick on this.
I watched Seinfeld when he gothis pilot agreed by NBC. He was
on the Letterman show doing thatfive minute stand up sketch that
he used to do. And he wentbackstage and he told Letterman,
I got my pilot any advice. AndLetterman said, don't let them
change anything. And Seinfeldsaid, What do you mean?
(06:07):
He goes, Don't let them changeeven a word on your script, a
character, a detail. Don't letthem change, do it your way. And
Seinfeld said, Why are yousaying that? And he said,
Because if you fail, you failedyour way and you can sleep at
night. And so the resilientmindset for me is as long as I
do it my way, I'm happy with theconsequences whether good or
(06:27):
bad.
Joe Rando (06:28):
That's so so true.
Carly Ries (06:30):
Well, you're just so refreshing. I'm like, I wanna
ask you random questions and gorogue and just see what comes
out of your mouth. Go rogue.
Joe Rando (06:35):
Go rogue, Carly. Do it.
Carly Ries (06:38):
You've talked about making having like fifty k
months, which is likeachievable, not always the norm.
But why do you think, in termsof an offer that converts to
make those kinds of sales, whydo you believe expertise is all
you need? What do you need?
Moe Choice (06:54):
Well it depends on so you know how we at the
beginning we talked aboutpositioning and marketing and
persuasion. You need expertisein those three things.
Joe Rando (07:00):
Right.
Moe Choice (07:01):
Not just expertise. Now, so how to build a
successful business? You need tobe able to get people to pay
you, and then you need to givethem what they paid you for.
Carly Ries (07:10):
Ta da!
Moe Choice (07:11):
Expertise is I can give you what you paid for, but
if I can't get you to pay me,what's the point? I'm not gonna
make money. So the expertise Ithink is twofold. It's do I know
how to get customers? And thendo I know how to deliver what
they paid for?
And if you're an expert of both,you are an independent
solopreneur
Joe Rando (07:29):
Let me ask you your opinion though. So imagine
you've got two differentexperts, right? expert A is 50%
as good as expert B. But expertA is really good at those three
things.
Right? Who's gonna make moremoney?
Moe Choice (07:46):
Well long term, it depends on the 50%, like look.
Joe Rando (07:50):
Is 50% good enough?
Moe Choice (07:52):
Well, I don't know, because the good enough is what
am I paying you for? Like, if Igo to McDonald's, is the Big Mac
good enough as a burger? Or doyou sit and say, no, the burger
should be gourmet and it shouldhave fresh milk
Joe Rando (08:02):
But my point is just if 50% of B is good enough if
it's gonna solve people'sproblems
Moe Choice (08:11):
Right. It gets you the outcome you want,
Joe Rando (08:13):
That's all it takes.
Moe Choice (08:14):
the way you want it to, then you're going to leave a
testimonial or review that sayshe got me what I wanted. That's
ultimately what we want. We wantthe clients to say I paid for
something and I got it. That'swhat we need to end up with.
Right?
That he gave me what I wanted.You know, see a lot of these
testimonials, Joe, where, oh,really enjoyed working with Moe.
(08:37):
He was a great coach. It's like,what was the outcome? Oh, I
really enjoyed Carly's process.
It's like, but what was theoutcome?
Joe Rando (08:43):
What did I get? What changed?
Moe Choice (08:45):
At the end? I don't care if Carly was a nice person.
Did she get me the thing that Iwanted to get? You know what I
mean? Like, it's like saying ina restaurant, I went to the
steak house and the seats werecomfortable.
It's like, how was this thinghow was this thing you know what
I mean? It's like, I don't wannaknow that part. I wanna know if
you got what you wanted.
Carly Ries (09:02):
Yeah. Well, so what do you think is the secret? I
mean, I guess you kinda justanswered it, but what do you
think is the secret tosustainable growth for
solopreneurs?
Moe Choice (09:11):
You have to keep growing. You know, it's this
idea that, like, let's sayinflation's 9%, which means if
your revenue growth is less than9%, you're losing money. What's
the opposite of growing?
Joe Rando (09:24):
You're shrinking.
Moe Choice (09:25):
Shrinking, right? So I think it's the same in
competence. Because people arealways upskilling. It's not like
if I don't upskill this year, noone's going to catch up or
overtake me. It's likeeveryone's upskilling.
So I think to grow is to growyour competence in those four
things we talked about: persuasion, marketing, (09:46):
undefined
positioning and your craft. Andif you keep growing that faster
than the competition, you'regoing to grow faster than the
competition.
Carly Ries (09:57):
It's so funny because when you say it, it's
like, well, yeah. But peopledon't actually think through it
like that. You know what I mean?Like you just put it in such
simple terms that are soapplicable, it's so practical,
and yet there will be listenersthat are like, so what should I
do next? You know what I mean?but it really is simple. Like
you really can just break itdown.
Joe Rando (10:17):
There's a simplicity that's still not easy to
necessarily do. The idea issimple, but the process of
thinking through, you know, howdo I position myself? Simple
idea, not always easy inpractice. In fact, we're still
doing it here. We're stillpositioning, figuring out how we
wanna place this business.
Moe Choice (10:39):
Well, simple is often the hardest thing to do,
simplicity. You think aboutmusic, you think about fashion,
you think about food. Right?It's often the simple things
that are really hard to achievebecause you're just, you're, you
know, you, you like let's say asinger on stage performing on
their own is a lot harder thanif you have backing vocals,
(11:00):
dancers, you're kind of takingthe attention away from you,
your limitations, yourvulnerabilities, your right? So
I think simplicity is thehardest thing to do and simple
is not easy.
Here's the thing though, interms of like what Carly, what
you said about how do I right.You have to learn these topics
(11:23):
and the easiest way to learn thetopics is to go and find the
five best books on each topic.And you know these people that
say, I read 52 books this year,one a week. It's like, you
didn't learn anything, probably.Because it takes me like six
months to learn a book.
Sometimes longer. You know whatI mean? So the education process
(11:44):
is I think what people getwrong.
Joe Rando (11:46):
I learned to speed read years and years ago, and I
was able to get through booksreally quickly, but it was never
effective. And then Now I read abook, I'll go in a page and a
half, put it down, go to thecomputer, do some writing or
thinking about that.
Moe Choice (12:03):
Perfect.
Joe Rando (12:04):
Yeah. Makes all the difference.
Moe Choice (12:08):
Richard Bach said, you teach best what you wanna
learn. So every time I readsomething I call a friend or I
try and send a voice note toSarah or my team and I say I
just got this new idea I'm gonnaexplain it to you. As I'm
explaining I go oh shit I don'tknow. Oh damn I don't know
enough about this or I didn'texplain it properly because I'm
not a 100% you know what I mean?So you teach best what you want
(12:32):
to learn, I think.
And so teach it to even yourselfor go and write down something
or figure out how to put it intopractice. You know, it's like, I
tell people it's anapprenticeship that you need,
not education. You need to learnwhile doing. That's what you
need to do my way.
Joe Rando (12:49):
We're in the process of, well we've written and now
we're editing SolopreneurBusiness for Dummies for Wiley.
Moe Choice (12:57):
what? I need one.
Joe Rando (12:59):
Well, you know, the dummies books, it's a really
great format. But anyway, butthe fact is, you know, writing
it, was like, okay. I alreadyknow what I've already got all
this material. I'm just gonnaput it in dummies format. And
that is not what happened atall.
It was like all kinds of newinsights. I had the first
chapter we wrote, I ended upcompletely rewriting that
(13:21):
chapter in part of the editingprocess. Like, just completely
reverse engineered my part ofit. Because with just so much
growth went on, just writingsomething I had already written.
I've just not written it in thatdummies format, but then
thinking through, coming back toit, figuring out how to explain
it, and it's completelydifferent and thankfully better
than it was before.
Moe Choice (13:41):
Well, it's why I create content on social media.
It's to test my ideas out,really. It's not to generate
virality or any of this stuff.It's like I wanna say something
and I wanna see how it lands.
Joe Rando (13:51):
Yeah. Yeah.
Moe Choice (13:52):
And I think that's right. I mean, everything can be
improved. Everything. There'snothing that's perfect in my
opinion.
So I think we gotta keep workingat it and see what happens.
Carly Ries (14:03):
Have you ever tried a really good slice of pizza? I
don't know if that can always beimproved.
Joe Rando (14:08):
Oh. There's always that one pizza from way back
when at that place that's gonebecause because Salvator died.
Carly Ries (14:19):
Right. Well, okay. So Mo, like you said, you work
with solopreneurs day in and dayout. What do you think is the
biggest mistake you see time andtime again?
Moe Choice (14:29):
This idea that I don't have to go the metaphor is
fishing. I want fish, myclients, but I don't wanna go
fishing. It's like, so what doyou want? The fish to come and
knock on your door? You want thefish to just jump in your boat?
And that's this idea aboutpassive income and all this
nonsense. You know what I mean?It's like what makes passive
(14:49):
income? What? Like great booksand great music.
That's probably it. Like FreddieMercury, We Are The Champions is
passive income because that songis just gonna be played
everywhere for the rest of time,and he's gonna get paid
royalties or whoever owns hisrights. Like it's just such a
dumb idea that I can do nothing,and I'm gonna create something
so good that it's going to standthe test of time and make me
(15:12):
money forever.
Joe Rando (15:13):
you're right. Because it's been done. But so hasn't
Freddie Mercury, you know,there's famous singers, famous
actors, and some people havemade a lot of passive income
without working hard. But it'snot any easier than becoming a
famous actor or a famousmusician.
Moe Choice (15:30):
No. And when people tell me, Joe, I make a passive
income, I want to understand,show me how. Right? Because a
lot of the times, there's partsof it that's passive.
Right. You're still brandingyourself, you're still doing
things, you're still you knowwhat I mean? So I think this is
the lazy idea. And here's thething: if you know how to fish,
(15:52):
then you can try and figure outthe shortcuts. The mistake,
Carly, to your question is, I'mnot going to learn how to fish.
And I'm going to go and findshortcuts to get the getting the
fish. Learn how to fish, thendelegate or find someone else to
do it or decide you don't wantto do it. But this idea that I
don't want to learn how to gofishing when that's your job, is
(16:16):
to go and find customers as asolopreneur.
That's by the way, this is whatI say to people. If you don't
have customers, your only job asa solopreneur is to find
customers.
Carly Ries (16:24):
Yeah. It's so true. Yet again, so simple. Well,
okay. so in the sake ofsimplicity, you have a six
figure freedom framework, if I'mnot mistaken.
What is that?
Moe Choice (16:36):
It's a mouthful. That's what that is.
Joe Rando (16:37):
It's right.
Carly Ries (16:39):
I played Solopreneur Success Sessions, which I've
regretted ever since as one ofour event names.
Moe Choice (16:46):
So here is the idea behind it. The freedom is not
just from the money, although asyou spoke earlier it's a big big
part of it. That's the 6 figurepart, right? The framework is
this idea that I'm not going totell you what to do, I'm going
to show you what you need tofigure out. That's why it's a
(17:07):
framework not a process.
So, again, how are you going toposition yourself in the market
is my question. Now you're gonnahave to figure that out, or I
can help you figure it out. Howare you going to test the
market? With your offer? Youmight not know how to build an
offer, to test the market.
I might help you, but you needto answer that question. That's
the framework. How do I engagewith people about my offer and
(17:30):
then persuade them? So theacronym's POOP, which is
position, offer, outreach,persuasion.
Joe Rando (17:40):
I just can't tell you how much I and my four year old
granddaughter love that.
Carly Ries (17:47):
No. I've seen you for half hour, maybe forty five
minutes now at this pointbetween our other conversation,
and that just seems so on brand.I don't know. I'm just like, you
know, he would. I don't know.
He wouldn't mind. He would.
Moe Choice (18:03):
My outreach framework was called cacao,
which means poop so that's myoutreach framework. But that's
the 6 figure freedom framework.If you figure out those four
things, you will get to 6figures. And then poops. If you
want to scale, that's what getsyou to 7 figures.
The scale part is post $50.60grand a month.
Carly Ries (18:27):
Yeah. I mean it just makes sense and I cannot wait to
put your framework acronym inour show notes.
Moe Choice (18:32):
You're gonna put your poop. You're gonna get your
poop in order, Carly?
Carly Ries (18:35):
Put it down on paper. Moe, so for people that
are like scrambling right nowand they feel like they're
working day in and day out,What's a quick win for people to
escape that busy being busy trapand freeing up some of that time
or using their time for things
Moe Choice (18:56):
You got Me thinking now about relationship with
time. I struggle with time, Idon't even know if it really
exists to be honest with you.
Joe Rando (19:04):
Well, technically it doesn't.
Moe Choice (19:08):
And I think that's a different podcast maybe, but
Joe Rando (19:11):
No. Definitely a physics podcast, but
Moe Choice (19:14):
The question I ask about time is do I have the time
to do, so here is my version mydefinition of solopreneur is not
solo entrepreneur or solobusiness owner. My version, my
definition of solopreneur is I'mliving life on my own terms.
Unashamedly, without having toask anyone's permission. That's
(19:34):
my definition of a solopreneur.
Joe Rando (19:35):
That's our definition too. 1100100%.
Moe Choice (19:39):
So the time question is, do I have the time to live
life on my own terms? That's theonly question. And what's taking
my time away that's not livinglife, that's not helping me to
live life on my own terms?
So for example, when I look atmy calendar and I go, oh my god,
why am I meeting them? That'ssome form of time that I want to
(20:01):
win back because I don't want tobe meeting these people at that
time. And it's the same withtasks and all that stuff. So
here's the I think this is ananswer question. To When you get
good at something, then it'sdelegatable.
When you get good at somethingand you learn it, then it's
delegatable. Why? Because youknow how to do it, which means
(20:21):
you can manage the delegationand you can hold them to account
for how well they delegated, howwell they did the task. And this
is what people make a mistakeon. They delegate the stuff they
don't know how to do, whichmeans you can't hold them to
account for a certain standardbecause you've never done it.
It's like someone who's neversold and he says, Joe you're my
sales guy, you have to close onein three deals and blah blah.
(20:43):
It's like how do you know thatif you've never done it? So then
the other advantage of that isyou wanna give away the stuff
you know how to do so you canspend time on the stuff you
don't know how to do.
Which means you're constantlyThe thing we talked about
earlier about how do you keepgrowing is to grow your
competence. So that's where youbuy time. And ultimately there's
(21:05):
gonna be a point where you'veincreased your competence so
much, and you've delegated somuch of what you need to do that
you've got so much time back,and you're getting better
results than you were getting tobegin with. There's gonna be a
point where that happens, forsure.
Joe Rando (21:20):
So I wanna challenge you a little bit because I get
what you're saying, and I getthe logic, but I just you know,
one of the things that I learneda while back was that I have
some things I'm good at and somethings I'm not good at. And
these are things that I willnever be good at.
Moe Choice (21:40):
Example?
Joe Rando (21:40):
Anything that requires anything related to
clerical organizing, you know,paperwork, bookkeeping, anything
like that that just requiresthis kind of organized process.
you describe yourself as a madscientist.
Moe Choice (21:57):
You know how to do it, though, Joe. You know how to
organize it.
Joe Rando (22:01):
I guess I just can't do it well.
Moe Choice (22:05):
Okay. Fair. Fair. I agree with that.
Joe Rando (22:07):
And I found wonderful people to help me, like, with
respect to, organizingeverything and and doing the
bookkeeping, accounting, taxstuff. And, you know, I do not
understand The US tax code atall. And when I get my tax
returns for my businesses oreven my personal ones, Because I
(22:29):
don't have a clue. And I don'thave time.
Moe Choice (22:32):
It's the same as law. I'm not telling you to go
and learn law before you get alawyer. That's fair so I'll
stand corrected. In the craft ofyours, in persuasion, in
marketing, and in positioningOkay. Four things we talked
about, you don't want todelegate anything until you
learned it.
Joe Rando (22:48):
Okay. Good. Fair. I'm glad I asked.
Moe Choice (22:52):
Because I can go back to even the hairdresser
thing. Well, I'm not gonnadelegate to my hairdresser
unless I learn how to cut hair.Of course not. You're absolutely
right. You're absolutely right.
Joe Rando (23:02):
Nor should you. That's hard. I remember during
during COVID, my hair got long.And I'm like, I'm gonna cut my
hair. And I sat there in themirror with the scissors going,
this is not gonna go well. Andmy wife saved me.
Moe Choice (23:15):
It's absolutely right. That's absolutely fair
challenge. And the thing is, youknow, you don't have to be a
good musician or a musician evento know good music. You don't
have to be a good chef toappreciate good food or a movie
producer to appreciate a goodmovie. I think with things like
admin it's also like that.
You can appreciate good adminand spot it and challenge bad
(23:36):
admin without needing to be goodat it. I think that's one of
those that fits in there.
Carly Ries (23:41):
Okay. Moe, we could literally talk to you all day.
You're just the coolest guy.Have to end at some point. So
you help solopreneurs findsuccess.
We always ask our guests thisquestion, what is your favorite
quote about success?
Moe Choice (23:55):
Success is like the rent needs to be paid every
month.
Carly Ries (23:58):
Oh. Elaborate.
Joe Rando (24:00):
Never heard that
Moe Choice (24:00):
You don't just achieve success. It's a state.
It's process. So you'resuccessful here, and you have to
either maintain it, or getanother form of success. There's
no permanent success.
Joe Rando (24:13):
That's a new one. Good. Good stuff.
Moe Choice (24:15):
American football coach. I can't remember who. I'm
not even gonna guess. I mean,
Not Vince Lombardi or one ofthose. It's someone that doesn't
have any other good quotesbecause I went and looked them
up. And I was like, that's theonly it might have even been a
player, not a coach. I don'tknow. But you guys can look
Success is like the rent. Ithink the quote is success is
(24:36):
like the rent it's due everymonth. I think that's the quote.
Carly Ries (24:38):
Okay. Perfect. Well, Moe, this has been so
insightful. You're just great.Where can people find you to
learn more?
Moe Choice (24:45):
You can Google Moe there's only one MoeChoice. So
you can Google MoeChoice.LinkedIn is where I hang out the
most, and I've got something foryour audience if they would
like. I run a live master classwhere I teach the framework, the
six figure framework. I give youthe framework, I explain to you
how it works, I show you howsuccessful it was and how it is
and how it has been, and I runthis once every few weeks.
(25:07):
So if you go tomoechoice.com/podcast, you can
sign up. And for your guests whosign up to that, they'll get two
other bonuses as well. It'sexplained on the landing page,
and they can sign up for mymaster class. And then you can
see me deliver live my 6 figurefreedom framework.
Joe Rando (25:26):
Alright.
Carly Ries (25:27):
So nice of you to do. We will include all that in
the show notes. Thank you somuch, and thank you so so much
for coming on the show.
Moe Choice (25:33):
Thank you for having me.
Carly Ries (25:35):
And listeners, thank you so much for tuning in. As
always, please leave that fivestar review. Share this episode
with a friend, and subscribe onyour favorite podcast platform
including YouTube. And we willsee you next time on The
Aspiring Solopreneur. You may begoing solo in business, but that
doesn't mean you're alone.
In fact, millions of people arein your shoes, running a one
(25:56):
person business and figuring itout as they go. So why not
connect with them and learn fromeach other's successes and
failures? At LifeStarr, we'recreating a one person business
community where you can go tomeet and get advice from other
solopreneurs. Be sure to join inon the conversations at
community.lifestarr.com.
What if the secret to solopreneur success wasn't
(00:02):
working harder, but positioningsmarter, marketing better, and
learning how to persuade like apro? Well, in this episode of
the aspiring solopreneur, we sitdown with the insightful,
hilarious, and refreshinglyhonest Moe Choice. Someone who
went from burnout and bankruptcyto earning $50,000 months while
living life completely on histerms. Moe shares how he built
(00:24):
his 6 figure freedom framework,why expertise alone won't get
you clients, and how to design asolopreneur lifestyle rooted in
freedom, not just finances. Healso shares wisdom about
personal branding, time freedom,and the myth of passive income.
Whether you're just starting outor trying to break through a
plateau, this episode is packedwith mindset shifts and real
(00:45):
world tactics to help you growsmarter, not just busier. You're
listening to the AspiringSolopreneur, the podcast for
those just taking the bold stepor even just thinking about
taking that step into the worldof solo entrepreneurship. My
name is Carly Ries and my cohostJoe Rando and I are your guides
to navigating this crazy butawesome journey as a company of
(01:07):
one. We take pride in being partof LifeStarr, a digital hub
dedicated to all aspects ofsolopreneurship that has
empowered and educated countlesssolopreneurs looking to build a
business that resonates withtheir life's ambitions. We help
people work to live, not live towork.
And if you're looking for a getrich quick scheme, this is not
the show for you. So if you'reeager to gain valuable insights
(01:30):
from industry experts on runninga business the right way the
first time around or want tolearn from the missteps of
solopreneurs who paved the waybefore you, then stick around.
We've got your back becauseflying solo in business doesn't
mean you're alone. Moe, evenjust talking to you offline, I'm
like, you're my cup of tea. I amso thrilled and excited for this
(01:51):
conversation.
Before we dive into it, I mean,you help solopreneurs day in and
day out, similar to what we do.I wanna know what you wish you
had known before you became asolopreneur.
Moe Choice (02:03):
first of all, I wish I knew that I was already a
solopreneur because I look atsolopreneurship a little bit
different than most people. So Ididn't know that I could turn my
value into a brand. I thought tobe a solo brand, a personal
(02:25):
brand, a solo operator, you haveto be super talented musician,
actor, comedian, artist,athlete, chef, something like
that. And I was like, why thehell is anyone gonna care about
my personal brand? So what Iwish I knew is there's no
negative ROI on your personalbrand and you should start
(02:48):
building it as soon as possible.
Carly Ries (02:50):
Cool. That is such such good information. I mean, I
feel like we're just gonna havelittle nuggets of wisdom like
that because like I said, youwork with solopreneurs day in
and day out. You are one. So I'mkinda like, let's just pick your
brain about what you've learnedand what you know and say how we
can apply it to other people.
Well let's start with yourpersonal journey. How did you go
from bankruptcy and burnout tofifty k plus months on your own?
(03:14):
And with your really coollifestyle, by the way.
Moe Choice (03:18):
I don't know. I still don't know what I'm doing.
okay. So to succeed in life, Ithink you need to know three
things. How to position yourselfproperly to the market really.
The only thing we care about isthe market. How do you position
yourself even if you're lookingfor a job, how do you position
(03:40):
yourself properly in the jobmarket? If you're looking for a
new football team, how do youposition yourself properly to
the football teams? It's thesame idea. So how do I position
myself properly to get theattention of the people I want
and to get them to see what Iwant them to see?
That's the first thing we haveto learn. The second thing is
how do we then test the marketand adapt to the market because
(04:01):
the market changes. It's amillion variables constantly
changing. There's no one this ishow it is and this is how the
market works. There's no suchthing.
So it's how do I how do we adaptto the feedback from the market?
Because she will give youfeedback very quickly and you
need to be able to adapt to thefeedback to be able to then
manipulate the market in as muchas you can. Or work within the
(04:24):
market forces, let's say. Somarketing, we can say, right?
And then the third thing ispersuasion.
How do I get people to do thethings I want them to do? And I
think anyone should want tolearn all three no matter what
you want to do in your life. Andso all I did was try to upskill
(04:45):
myself, my competence in thosethree areas, and I kept doing
that and until I got here, andI'll keep doing that until I get
to wherever the next place is.
Joe Rando (04:55):
Very cool.
Carly Ries (04:56):
Yeah. You obviously have a resilient mindset too.
You're like, I'm just gonna keepgoing. whatever, I'm gonna keep
going. How can people get thatmindset?
Moe Choice (05:04):
Well here's the caveat. I don't have kids. I
don't have any dependencies. Noone relies on me for anything.
That's liberating in many waysbecause and also I'm quite happy
to live under a bridge, I don'tmean that literally because if
things don't work out, I think Ican walk into a fast food joint
(05:24):
or a bar and get a job, and Ithink I can probably work my way
up to manager pretty quickly.
So the worst case scenario, I'llbe working in an industry I
love. I love hospitality, and Ilove being hospitable. So worst
case scenario, I'll be workingin hospitality, an industry that
I love, probably in a reallygood job. So it's like, so what
(05:47):
does it matter if I fail? Realquick on this.
I watched Seinfeld when he gothis pilot agreed by NBC. He was
on the Letterman show doing thatfive minute stand up sketch that
he used to do. And he wentbackstage and he told Letterman,
I got my pilot any advice. AndLetterman said, don't let them
change anything. And Seinfeldsaid, What do you mean?
(06:07):
He goes, Don't let them changeeven a word on your script, a
character, a detail. Don't letthem change, do it your way. And
Seinfeld said, Why are yousaying that? And he said,
Because if you fail, you failedyour way and you can sleep at
night. And so the resilientmindset for me is as long as I
do it my way, I'm happy with theconsequences whether good or
(06:27):
bad.
Joe Rando (06:28):
That's so so true.
Carly Ries (06:30):
Well, you're just so refreshing. I'm like, I wanna
ask you random questions and gorogue and just see what comes
out of your mouth. Go rogue.
Joe Rando (06:35):
Go rogue, Carly. Do it.
Carly Ries (06:38):
You've talked about making having like fifty k
months, which is likeachievable, not always the norm.
But why do you think, in termsof an offer that converts to
make those kinds of sales, whydo you believe expertise is all
you need? What do you need?
Moe Choice (06:54):
Well it depends on so you know how we at the
beginning we talked aboutpositioning and marketing and
persuasion. You need expertisein those three things.
Joe Rando (07:00):
Right.
Moe Choice (07:01):
Not just expertise. Now, so how to build a
successful business? You need tobe able to get people to pay
you, and then you need to givethem what they paid you for.
Carly Ries (07:10):
Ta da!
Moe Choice (07:11):
Expertise is I can give you what you paid for, but
if I can't get you to pay me,what's the point? I'm not gonna
make money. So the expertise Ithink is twofold. It's do I know
how to get customers? And thendo I know how to deliver what
they paid for?
And if you're an expert of both,you are an independent
solopreneur
Joe Rando (07:29):
Let me ask you your opinion though. So imagine
you've got two differentexperts, right? expert A is 50%
as good as expert B. But expertA is really good at those three
things.
Right? Who's gonna make moremoney?
Moe Choice (07:46):
Well long term, it depends on the 50%, like look.
Joe Rando (07:50):
Is 50% good enough?
Moe Choice (07:52):
Well, I don't know, because the good enough is what
am I paying you for? Like, if Igo to McDonald's, is the Big Mac
good enough as a burger? Or doyou sit and say, no, the burger
should be gourmet and it shouldhave fresh milk
Joe Rando (08:02):
But my point is just if 50% of B is good enough if
it's gonna solve people'sproblems
Moe Choice (08:11):
Right. It gets you the outcome you want,
Joe Rando (08:13):
That's all it takes.
Moe Choice (08:14):
the way you want it to, then you're going to leave a
testimonial or review that sayshe got me what I wanted. That's
ultimately what we want. We wantthe clients to say I paid for
something and I got it. That'swhat we need to end up with.
Right?
That he gave me what I wanted.You know, see a lot of these
testimonials, Joe, where, oh,really enjoyed working with Moe.
(08:37):
He was a great coach. It's like,what was the outcome? Oh, I
really enjoyed Carly's process.
It's like, but what was theoutcome?
Joe Rando (08:43):
What did I get? What changed?
Moe Choice (08:45):
At the end? I don't care if Carly was a nice person.
Did she get me the thing that Iwanted to get? You know what I
mean? Like, it's like saying ina restaurant, I went to the
steak house and the seats werecomfortable.
It's like, how was this thinghow was this thing you know what
I mean? It's like, I don't wannaknow that part. I wanna know if
you got what you wanted.
Carly Ries (09:02):
Yeah. Well, so what do you think is the secret? I
mean, I guess you kinda justanswered it, but what do you
think is the secret tosustainable growth for
solopreneurs?
Moe Choice (09:11):
You have to keep growing. You know, it's this
idea that, like, let's sayinflation's 9%, which means if
your revenue growth is less than9%, you're losing money. What's
the opposite of growing?
Joe Rando (09:24):
You're shrinking.
Moe Choice (09:25):
Shrinking, right? So I think it's the same in
competence. Because people arealways upskilling. It's not like
if I don't upskill this year, noone's going to catch up or
overtake me. It's likeeveryone's upskilling.
So I think to grow is to growyour competence in those four
things we talked about: persuasion, marketing, (09:46):
undefined
positioning and your craft. Andif you keep growing that faster
than the competition, you'regoing to grow faster than the
competition.
Carly Ries (09:57):
It's so funny because when you say it, it's
like, well, yeah. But peopledon't actually think through it
like that. You know what I mean?Like you just put it in such
simple terms that are soapplicable, it's so practical,
and yet there will be listenersthat are like, so what should I
do next? You know what I mean?but it really is simple. Like
you really can just break itdown.
Joe Rando (10:17):
There's a simplicity that's still not easy to
necessarily do. The idea issimple, but the process of
thinking through, you know, howdo I position myself? Simple
idea, not always easy inpractice. In fact, we're still
doing it here. We're stillpositioning, figuring out how we
wanna place this business.
Moe Choice (10:39):
Well, simple is often the hardest thing to do,
simplicity. You think aboutmusic, you think about fashion,
you think about food. Right?It's often the simple things
that are really hard to achievebecause you're just, you're, you
know, you, you like let's say asinger on stage performing on
their own is a lot harder thanif you have backing vocals,
(11:00):
dancers, you're kind of takingthe attention away from you,
your limitations, yourvulnerabilities, your right? So
I think simplicity is thehardest thing to do and simple
is not easy.
Here's the thing though, interms of like what Carly, what
you said about how do I right.You have to learn these topics
(11:23):
and the easiest way to learn thetopics is to go and find the
five best books on each topic.And you know these people that
say, I read 52 books this year,one a week. It's like, you
didn't learn anything, probably.Because it takes me like six
months to learn a book.
Sometimes longer. You know whatI mean? So the education process
(11:44):
is I think what people getwrong.
Joe Rando (11:46):
I learned to speed read years and years ago, and I
was able to get through booksreally quickly, but it was never
effective. And then Now I read abook, I'll go in a page and a
half, put it down, go to thecomputer, do some writing or
thinking about that.
Moe Choice (12:03):
Perfect.
Joe Rando (12:04):
Yeah. Makes all the difference.
Moe Choice (12:08):
Richard Bach said, you teach best what you wanna
learn. So every time I readsomething I call a friend or I
try and send a voice note toSarah or my team and I say I
just got this new idea I'm gonnaexplain it to you. As I'm
explaining I go oh shit I don'tknow. Oh damn I don't know
enough about this or I didn'texplain it properly because I'm
not a 100% you know what I mean?So you teach best what you want
(12:32):
to learn, I think.
And so teach it to even yourselfor go and write down something
or figure out how to put it intopractice. You know, it's like, I
tell people it's anapprenticeship that you need,
not education. You need to learnwhile doing. That's what you
need to do my way.
Joe Rando (12:49):
We're in the process of, well we've written and now
we're editing SolopreneurBusiness for Dummies for Wiley.
Moe Choice (12:57):
what? I need one.
Joe Rando (12:59):
Well, you know, the dummies books, it's a really
great format. But anyway, butthe fact is, you know, writing
it, was like, okay. I alreadyknow what I've already got all
this material. I'm just gonnaput it in dummies format. And
that is not what happened atall.
It was like all kinds of newinsights. I had the first
chapter we wrote, I ended upcompletely rewriting that
(13:21):
chapter in part of the editingprocess. Like, just completely
reverse engineered my part ofit. Because with just so much
growth went on, just writingsomething I had already written.
I've just not written it in thatdummies format, but then
thinking through, coming back toit, figuring out how to explain
it, and it's completelydifferent and thankfully better
than it was before.
Moe Choice (13:41):
Well, it's why I create content on social media.
It's to test my ideas out,really. It's not to generate
virality or any of this stuff.It's like I wanna say something
and I wanna see how it lands.
Joe Rando (13:51):
Yeah. Yeah.
Moe Choice (13:52):
And I think that's right. I mean, everything can be
improved. Everything. There'snothing that's perfect in my
opinion.
So I think we gotta keep workingat it and see what happens.
Carly Ries (14:03):
Have you ever tried a really good slice of pizza? I
don't know if that can always beimproved.
Joe Rando (14:08):
Oh. There's always that one pizza from way back
when at that place that's gonebecause because Salvator died.
Carly Ries (14:19):
Right. Well, okay. So Mo, like you said, you work
with solopreneurs day in and dayout. What do you think is the
biggest mistake you see time andtime again?
Moe Choice (14:29):
This idea that I don't have to go the metaphor is
fishing. I want fish, myclients, but I don't wanna go
fishing. It's like, so what doyou want? The fish to come and
knock on your door? You want thefish to just jump in your boat?
And that's this idea aboutpassive income and all this
nonsense. You know what I mean?It's like what makes passive
(14:49):
income? What? Like great booksand great music.
That's probably it. Like FreddieMercury, We Are The Champions is
passive income because that songis just gonna be played
everywhere for the rest of time,and he's gonna get paid
royalties or whoever owns hisrights. Like it's just such a
dumb idea that I can do nothing,and I'm gonna create something
so good that it's going to standthe test of time and make me
(15:12):
money forever.
Joe Rando (15:13):
you're right. Because it's been done. But so hasn't
Freddie Mercury, you know,there's famous singers, famous
actors, and some people havemade a lot of passive income
without working hard. But it'snot any easier than becoming a
famous actor or a famousmusician.
Moe Choice (15:30):
No. And when people tell me, Joe, I make a passive
income, I want to understand,show me how. Right? Because a
lot of the times, there's partsof it that's passive.
Right. You're still brandingyourself, you're still doing
things, you're still you knowwhat I mean? So I think this is
the lazy idea. And here's thething: if you know how to fish,
(15:52):
then you can try and figure outthe shortcuts. The mistake,
Carly, to your question is, I'mnot going to learn how to fish.
And I'm going to go and findshortcuts to get the getting the
fish. Learn how to fish, thendelegate or find someone else to
do it or decide you don't wantto do it. But this idea that I
don't want to learn how to gofishing when that's your job, is
(16:16):
to go and find customers as asolopreneur.
That's by the way, this is whatI say to people. If you don't
have customers, your only job asa solopreneur is to find
customers.
Carly Ries (16:24):
Yeah. It's so true. Yet again, so simple. Well,
okay. so in the sake ofsimplicity, you have a six
figure freedom framework, if I'mnot mistaken.
What is that?
Moe Choice (16:36):
It's a mouthful. That's what that is.
Joe Rando (16:37):
It's right.
Carly Ries (16:39):
I played Solopreneur Success Sessions, which I've
regretted ever since as one ofour event names.
Moe Choice (16:46):
So here is the idea behind it. The freedom is not
just from the money, although asyou spoke earlier it's a big big
part of it. That's the 6 figurepart, right? The framework is
this idea that I'm not going totell you what to do, I'm going
to show you what you need tofigure out. That's why it's a
(17:07):
framework not a process.
So, again, how are you going toposition yourself in the market
is my question. Now you're gonnahave to figure that out, or I
can help you figure it out. Howare you going to test the
market? With your offer? Youmight not know how to build an
offer, to test the market.
I might help you, but you needto answer that question. That's
the framework. How do I engagewith people about my offer and
(17:30):
then persuade them? So theacronym's POOP, which is
position, offer, outreach,persuasion.
Joe Rando (17:40):
I just can't tell you how much I and my four year old
granddaughter love that.
Carly Ries (17:47):
No. I've seen you for half hour, maybe forty five
minutes now at this pointbetween our other conversation,
and that just seems so on brand.I don't know. I'm just like, you
know, he would. I don't know.
He wouldn't mind. He would.
Moe Choice (18:03):
My outreach framework was called cacao,
which means poop so that's myoutreach framework. But that's
the 6 figure freedom framework.If you figure out those four
things, you will get to 6figures. And then poops. If you
want to scale, that's what getsyou to 7 figures.
The scale part is post $50.60grand a month.
Carly Ries (18:27):
Yeah. I mean it just makes sense and I cannot wait to
put your framework acronym inour show notes.
Moe Choice (18:32):
You're gonna put your poop. You're gonna get your
poop in order, Carly?
Carly Ries (18:35):
Put it down on paper. Moe, so for people that
are like scrambling right nowand they feel like they're
working day in and day out,What's a quick win for people to
escape that busy being busy trapand freeing up some of that time
or using their time for things
Moe Choice (18:56):
You got Me thinking now about relationship with
time. I struggle with time, Idon't even know if it really
exists to be honest with you.
Joe Rando (19:04):
Well, technically it doesn't.
Moe Choice (19:08):
And I think that's a different podcast maybe, but
Joe Rando (19:11):
No. Definitely a physics podcast, but
Moe Choice (19:14):
The question I ask about time is do I have the time
to do, so here is my version mydefinition of solopreneur is not
solo entrepreneur or solobusiness owner. My version, my
definition of solopreneur is I'mliving life on my own terms.
Unashamedly, without having toask anyone's permission. That's
(19:34):
my definition of a solopreneur.
Joe Rando (19:35):
That's our definition too. 1100100%.
Moe Choice (19:39):
So the time question is, do I have the time to live
life on my own terms? That's theonly question. And what's taking
my time away that's not livinglife, that's not helping me to
live life on my own terms?
So for example, when I look atmy calendar and I go, oh my god,
why am I meeting them? That'ssome form of time that I want to
(20:01):
win back because I don't want tobe meeting these people at that
time. And it's the same withtasks and all that stuff. So
here's the I think this is ananswer question. To When you get
good at something, then it'sdelegatable.
When you get good at somethingand you learn it, then it's
delegatable. Why? Because youknow how to do it, which means
(20:21):
you can manage the delegationand you can hold them to account
for how well they delegated, howwell they did the task. And this
is what people make a mistakeon. They delegate the stuff they
don't know how to do, whichmeans you can't hold them to
account for a certain standardbecause you've never done it.
It's like someone who's neversold and he says, Joe you're my
sales guy, you have to close onein three deals and blah blah.
(20:43):
It's like how do you know thatif you've never done it? So then
the other advantage of that isyou wanna give away the stuff
you know how to do so you canspend time on the stuff you
don't know how to do.
Which means you're constantlyThe thing we talked about
earlier about how do you keepgrowing is to grow your
competence. So that's where youbuy time. And ultimately there's
(21:05):
gonna be a point where you'veincreased your competence so
much, and you've delegated somuch of what you need to do that
you've got so much time back,and you're getting better
results than you were getting tobegin with. There's gonna be a
point where that happens, forsure.
Joe Rando (21:20):
So I wanna challenge you a little bit because I get
what you're saying, and I getthe logic, but I just you know,
one of the things that I learneda while back was that I have
some things I'm good at and somethings I'm not good at. And
these are things that I willnever be good at.
Moe Choice (21:40):
Example?
Joe Rando (21:40):
Anything that requires anything related to
clerical organizing, you know,paperwork, bookkeeping, anything
like that that just requiresthis kind of organized process.
you describe yourself as a madscientist.
Moe Choice (21:57):
You know how to do it, though, Joe. You know how to
organize it.
Joe Rando (22:01):
I guess I just can't do it well.
Moe Choice (22:05):
Okay. Fair. Fair. I agree with that.
Joe Rando (22:07):
And I found wonderful people to help me, like, with
respect to, organizingeverything and and doing the
bookkeeping, accounting, taxstuff. And, you know, I do not
understand The US tax code atall. And when I get my tax
returns for my businesses oreven my personal ones, Because I
(22:29):
don't have a clue. And I don'thave time.
Moe Choice (22:32):
It's the same as law. I'm not telling you to go
and learn law before you get alawyer. That's fair so I'll
stand corrected. In the craft ofyours, in persuasion, in
marketing, and in positioningOkay. Four things we talked
about, you don't want todelegate anything until you
learned it.
Joe Rando (22:48):
Okay. Good. Fair. I'm glad I asked.
Moe Choice (22:52):
Because I can go back to even the hairdresser
thing. Well, I'm not gonnadelegate to my hairdresser
unless I learn how to cut hair.Of course not. You're absolutely
right. You're absolutely right.
Joe Rando (23:02):
Nor should you. That's hard. I remember during
during COVID, my hair got long.And I'm like, I'm gonna cut my
hair. And I sat there in themirror with the scissors going,
this is not gonna go well. Andmy wife saved me.
Moe Choice (23:15):
It's absolutely right. That's absolutely fair
challenge. And the thing is, youknow, you don't have to be a
good musician or a musician evento know good music. You don't
have to be a good chef toappreciate good food or a movie
producer to appreciate a goodmovie. I think with things like
admin it's also like that.
You can appreciate good adminand spot it and challenge bad
(23:36):
admin without needing to be goodat it. I think that's one of
those that fits in there.
Carly Ries (23:41):
Okay. Moe, we could literally talk to you all day.
You're just the coolest guy.Have to end at some point. So
you help solopreneurs findsuccess.
We always ask our guests thisquestion, what is your favorite
quote about success?
Moe Choice (23:55):
Success is like the rent needs to be paid every
month.
Carly Ries (23:58):
Oh. Elaborate.
Joe Rando (24:00):
Never heard that
Moe Choice (24:00):
You don't just achieve success. It's a state.
It's process. So you'resuccessful here, and you have to
either maintain it, or getanother form of success. There's
no permanent success.
Joe Rando (24:13):
That's a new one. Good. Good stuff.
Moe Choice (24:15):
American football coach. I can't remember who. I'm
not even gonna guess. I mean,
Not Vince Lombardi or one ofthose. It's someone that doesn't
have any other good quotesbecause I went and looked them
up. And I was like, that's theonly it might have even been a
player, not a coach. I don'tknow. But you guys can look
Success is like the rent. Ithink the quote is success is
(24:36):
like the rent it's due everymonth. I think that's the quote.
Carly Ries (24:38):
Okay. Perfect. Well, Moe, this has been so
insightful. You're just great.Where can people find you to
learn more?
Moe Choice (24:45):
You can Google Moe there's only one MoeChoice. So
you can Google MoeChoice.LinkedIn is where I hang out the
most, and I've got something foryour audience if they would
like. I run a live master classwhere I teach the framework, the
six figure framework. I give youthe framework, I explain to you
how it works, I show you howsuccessful it was and how it is
and how it has been, and I runthis once every few weeks.
(25:07):
So if you go tomoechoice.com/podcast, you can
sign up. And for your guests whosign up to that, they'll get two
other bonuses as well. It'sexplained on the landing page,
and they can sign up for mymaster class. And then you can
see me deliver live my 6 figurefreedom framework.
Joe Rando (25:26):
Alright.
Carly Ries (25:27):
So nice of you to do. We will include all that in
the show notes. Thank you somuch, and thank you so so much
for coming on the show.
Moe Choice (25:33):
Thank you for having me.
Carly Ries (25:35):
And listeners, thank you so much for tuning in. As
always, please leave that fivestar review. Share this episode
with a friend, and subscribe onyour favorite podcast platform
including YouTube. And we willsee you next time on The
Aspiring Solopreneur. You may begoing solo in business, but that
doesn't mean you're alone.
In fact, millions of people arein your shoes, running a one
(25:56):
person business and figuring itout as they go. So why not
connect with them and learn fromeach other's successes and
failures? At LifeStarr, we'recreating a one person business
community where you can go tomeet and get advice from other
solopreneurs. Be sure to join inon the conversations at
community.lifestarr.com.
Popular Podcasts
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
The Joe Rogan Experience
The official podcast of comedian Joe Rogan.
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Special Summer Offer: Exclusively on Apple Podcasts, try our Dateline Premium subscription completely free for one month! With Dateline Premium, you get every episode ad-free plus exclusive bonus content.