Chris Larsen (@christopheralarsen) is a former competitive cyclist, entrepreneur, and father of two who joins us on a captivating exploration the unique challenges of being an athlete dad raising athlete kids.
The exhilarating journey from his days as a competitive cyclist to a dedicated father provides a fresh perspective packed with practical tools and frameworks for how to approach parenting. In our conversation, we discuss everything from the ups and downs of nurturing children's passions, the importance of fostering resilience, tp the necessity for balance.
Enjoy this insightful conversation that offers a fresh perspective on parenting, sports, and the pursuit of balance.
As a free gift, you can get a free copy of Chris' book, "Next-Level Income" from their website here.
More Resources:
- www.nextlevelincome.com
- Angela Duckworth's book GRIT
- Outliers: The Story of Success: Gladwell, Malcolm
- David and Goliath: Underdogs, Misfits, and the Art of Battling Giants
- Jim Sheils' The Family Board Meeting
- Die With Zero By Bill Perkins
The Athlete Dad Resources:
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
It really underscores how time is finite, and with
finitude comes gratitude.
So when you realize thatsomething is finite, you
appreciate it that much more.
These are the things that Ithink aren't readily apparent
and we might say, hey, there'sthis disadvantage, we need to
correct for that disadvantage.
But what if we're actuallydoing a disservice to that
(00:21):
individual, that group of peoplethat we're trying to help?
Speaker 2 (00:27):
This is the ATHLETE Dad Podcast, where we explore
the intersection betweenphysical pursuits and fatherhood
.
I'm Ben Gibson, and if you'rean ambitious dad that is
pursuing or looking to pursueyour athletic passions now while
improving the way you show upat home, then this is a show for
you.
As an athlete dad, I'm alwaysintrigued by how dads that are
(00:58):
athletes raise their kids thatare also athletes.
There's a lot of topics I'vebeen wanting to explore in this
area, because I think it's aninteresting and complex topic
that I don't think that, despiteour best efforts, I don't think
many dads that are athletesnail this topic as well as they
want to.
So I'm very excited to havetoday's guest, chris Larson, on
(01:21):
to talk about this topic andmore.
Chris is the founder andmanaging partner of a company
called Next Level Income, buthis athletic background is in
competitive cycling.
Chris was an all-Americancyclist.
He was top five at the nationalchampionships and was
eventually top 10 in the worldchampionships.
Today, chris isn't just acyclist, but he's also doing
(01:42):
amazing things like rafting theGrand Canyon, climbing Mount
Rainier and any other outdoorpursuits, especially if he can
find a way to incorporate hisfamily in it.
Most importantly, chris is afather of two teenage boys and a
husband to his wife who, by theway, they just recently
celebrated a huge weddinganniversary.
So congrats to Chris andJessica.
But in my conversation withChris, we hear about how he
(02:04):
helps to nurture his own kids'passions, which are very
different than his own.
How he thinks about balancinghis kids' sports with school and
family and responsibilities.
He talks about some greatmental frameworks that I really
love for how he approaches howyou engage with your kids and
their passions and theircommitments.
And I just loved howintentional Chris is about how
(02:27):
he navigates being a husband,being a father, how he navigates
his career, how he navigateshis family's finances so that
he's deliberately settinghimself up for success, to have
time and to have resources to beable to live the life he wants.
And if you're even just aparent that just wants to help
your kids get the most out oftheir own athletic experiences,
(02:48):
I think you're going to lovethis episode.
As a bonus for our listeners,chris is giving away a free copy
of his book Next Level Income,which, to put it into context,
of why this is great for athletedads.
It's a way to help more parentsachieve greater financial
independence so that you can goout and pursue more of your
athletic passions and spend moretime with your family by having
(03:10):
a better financial setup.
I've added that, and all theother resources we talk about in
this episode, into the shownotes.
So, without further ado, pleaseenjoy this episode with Chris
Larson.
Well, chris, good morning.
Thank you so much for coming onthe podcast today.
I'm so excited for ourconversation.
(03:31):
Yeah, man, great to see you,ben.
Something I think would bereally helpful is setting the
context of what your life lookslike right now.
So I think about this really interms of two buckets something
that you're excited about insideof the home and something that
you're really excited aboutoutside of the home.
So help us understand a bitmore about yourself and what
it's like to be Dad, chris.
(03:53):
All that right now.
Speaker 1 (03:55):
Yeah, so I appreciate that, Ben, I have two boys, 11
and 13, and they are both inmiddle school.
So they're both in the samemiddle school.
And you know, what I'm reallyexcited about is we live in
Asheville, North Carolina, andwe were able to get them into.
It's an all boys middle school,small, small classes 12 kids to
(04:15):
class, 24 kids a grade myyounger son's in six, my older
son's in eight but it's anoutdoor based school.
Every Wednesday Like yesterdaywas Wednesday and they went out
and they canoed.
So they actually went actuallyon.
My older son canoed and myyounger son height and that was
there.
That was what they did forschool.
And then they write a reportabout it and they talk about
(04:36):
things like teamwork, you know,working together as a team
inside the canoe and buildingrelationships and those sorts of
things.
They still talk about what theylearned.
They're learning how to beyoung men.
That's really exciting to getto see them kind of grow and
develop.
They're also both into lacrosse.
So we spent a lot of time onthe weekends and you know,
traveling with them and doingthose things.
(04:56):
So it's fun to see yourchildren to develop passions
around things that they weren'tlike.
I wasn't a lacrosse player.
It's really cool to see thathappening as well.
I'm also married, my wife and I.
Something that's exciting is intwo days we're going to be
celebrating our 17th weddinganniversary.
(05:17):
We've actually been togetherfor 22 years, you know, so
that's something that I'm firedup.
I think it's a testament to youknow our commitment to one
another and being married isn'teasy, so you have to work at it,
you have to do things, but ourmarriage or relationship, is as
strong as it's ever been.
So inside, the house got a lotof stuff with my family I'm
excited about outside, from abusiness perspective, we're
(05:41):
about to launch some funds inour business, which is really
going to be a great thing forinvestors, so I'm fired up about
that as well.
Speaker 2 (05:47):
That's awesome, oh my gosh, and I love the outdoor
school idea.
So I want to dig into that abit more, because that's
something that we've actuallydone with our oldest son in
preschool.
He goes to this all outdoorpreschool, which there's so many
things I love about it.
I remember the first time wegot his school gear list and it
wasn't like pens and pencils.
(06:08):
It was like you need waterproofboots, you need heavy parka,
you know, like all these reallycool things, because rain or
shine, snow, whatever they'reout there and I think that
there's so many things that comefrom that valuable experience.
What helped you all make thatshift?
Because was this something theyhad ever done?
Speaker 1 (06:28):
before.
Speaker 2 (06:28):
Or is this a new transition?
Speaker 1 (06:30):
Yeah, so this is so.
My older son started in sixthgrade at this school and, to get
a little personal, our olderson was not thriving in the
school he was in before.
And look, there are things thatwe're not supposed to talk
about in society these days andI think that's that is really
harmful in a lot of ways,because things like, oh, boys
(06:51):
and girls aren't different, thatthere's really good research,
especially when it comes toschool and learning, that boys
and girls are very different,they develop at different rates,
and some people may not likethat I'm saying this, but when
you say, hey, there's nodifferences between genders,
we're basically, you know, ifnot discounting we're, if not
(07:12):
throwing away, we're discountingthat research that's out there.
And there are cases I'm notgoing to, I'm not going to say
they're not, they're not earnedcases, and I have a lot of
experience in our own familywith with those cases
specifically.
So I'm not going to say that Idon't think that's possible, but
in general, boys learndifferently than girls and they
(07:33):
develop at different rates thangirls.
So when, when we notice some ofthese challenges that my son
was was facing in this, you knowwe'll call it a feminized
school system, which was, youknow, almost all female teachers
, female administrators.
You know it's a lot of, a lotof women and you know it's just.
It's just different when youhave a little active boy that's
(07:53):
being, quote unquote, disruptivein class.
And there really wasn't anythingwrong per se with my son, aside
from the fact that he needed tobe more active and he learns in
different ways.
So when we learned about thisschool and we brought him in, it
was we saw a couple of thingsthat were really interesting.
One, the activity level was wasoff the charts, right.
(08:17):
So when you're they're activethroughout the day, active
throughout the week, not just inactivities and sports and
different things, you know, butbut camping and doing service
work and going out and, you know, pulling garbage out of the
rivers that you know, aroundAsheville, like you know,
teaching, teaching these youngboys to serve not only
themselves but also thecommunities, which is which is
(08:38):
really impressive.
But also what really impressedme, because my younger son was
in the public school system atthe time, the public schools.
So as a fifth grader they wereactually teaching a fourth grade
curriculum and in this newschool they said well, we're not
going to slow down, we're goingto your son is going to get
(08:58):
caught in sixth grade to sixthgrade curriculum and if they've
fallen behind during COVID, webelieve that they will catch up
and they will rise to the levelthat's expected of them.
And that was a very refreshingperspective and I think it's
something that you know we canall take as parents and learn
from, which is, if you have lowexpectations for your children,
(09:20):
they're probably going to riseto those expectations and if you
, if you have high expectationsand you support them and give
them the right environment, theycan thrive and achieve more
than we thought they couldbelieve.
And again, that's somethingelse we've seen society today
which is, hey, you can't do thatbecause you have this
disadvantage right, and thatthat really you know.
(09:43):
That's unfortunate, because Ithink we all have this innate
potential inside of us and wecan come about it from an
athletic perspective, you knowlater on in this conversation,
but it's amazing what people canachieve even when it doesn't
appear like they have thatcapability on the outside.
Speaker 2 (10:01):
I couldn't agree with that more.
I think you know, and I thinkabout the way that a lot of
society approaches thedisadvantages.
Oftentimes, you know, and tosort of generalize here,
oftentimes I think that theinitial reaction is like oh well
, this is challenging for them,let's make it easier.
And I think that that onedoesn't doesn't serve them right
, because the I agree with youon the idea of people typically
(10:24):
rise to the expectations thatyou set for them and I think the
environment is really key forthat.
Like we have, there's aresponsibility to put them in an
environment, the resources toenable them to rise to those
occasions.
But I also think that, like youknow, think about your own
story and I think about thismyself, and I can't think of a
single successful person whothis isn't true for where those
(10:46):
disadvantages are such animportant part of their story.
They were the pivotal momentsfor them that were
transformative of.
Here was this setback, here wasthis limitation, here was this
disadvantage, and it is becauseof that that I succeeded.
Speaker 1 (11:02):
I think you hit the nail on the head and it's not
even in spite of, it's becauseof and you can look at this from
a few different things like Iraised bicycles, you know,
starting 30 years ago, Iremember the first races that I
lost, the first events that Ilost like, and those drove me to
be better.
But there's, there's researchon this.
Malcolm Gladwell talks aboutthis in his book David versus
(11:22):
Goliath.
He also wrote the book Outliersand I'm sure you know my
parents are familiar with thisbecause of the when you're, when
you're chilled when your childis born.
They talked about Canadianhockey players and the best.
We're all born in the earlypart of the year because they
matured a little bit quickerthan the kids that were later on
the year.
My wife's Canadian and you knowbig, you know people love
(11:44):
hockey in Canada.
We actually one of our firstkind of neat of neat things.
We watched the avalanche whenthe Stanley Cup together and I
was like this is cool, my wifelikes to watch hockey,
girlfriend.
But Malcolm Gladwell talks aboutdesirable difficulties and for
me it hit home because I lost myfather at age five.
And Malcolm talks about howthere's this disproportionate
(12:07):
number of American presidents,ceos, successful individuals
that lost parents at a young age.
Now what and he calls themdesirable difficulties?
Now, you certainly do not wantto lose a parent, definitely
don't want to lose a father.
You know as a son.
We know, we know the statisticson single family households.
(12:29):
You know, and that's why it'sso important to have, you know,
the family unit, in my opinion.
So losing a parent, losing afather, is not an advantage in
any way, shape or form.
So why do these people go on tobe successful?
It's a great question.
One, because they had thesupport, they had the right
community around them, you know.
Maybe they had a strong, youknow, parental figure.
But two, they learned toovercome something that was a
(12:54):
drastic, drastic setback for achild.
And it also it reallyunderscores how time is finite
and with finitude comesgratitude right.
So when you realize thatsomething is finite, you
appreciate it that much more.
So you know again these.
These are the things that Ithink aren't readily apparent
(13:15):
and we might say, hey, there'sthis disadvantage, we need to
correct for that disadvantage.
But what if we're actuallydoing a disservice to that
individual, that group of peoplethat we're trying to help?
We have to be very careful withthat.
Speaker 2 (13:28):
Yeah, and I think you hit it too with the.
You know the idea of opportunitylike so much of being a parent.
I've found in my shortexperiences that, man, I've
really got to give my kids theopportunities to succeed, and I
think especially opportunitiesto struggle, because you know,
we all work really hard like wehave to provide for our families
, like we want to have a nicelifestyle, and with that also
(13:51):
comes some of the missedopportunities that many of us
had as kids.
You know, I remember a lot ofstruggles as a kid and it is
again because of many of thosestruggles that I live the life
that I have today.
And I think that you know it'slike, yes, I want to be
financially successful and welloff and not have to worry about
those things, but now I have tointroduce deliberate
opportunities for my son tostruggle in a really healthy way
(14:15):
to learn some of those lessonsand so, yeah, removing that
opportunity is doing them adisservice and I think, like the
most, the thing I am mostafraid of because of that and
also because of you know this issort of a tangent, but like
technology and all these thingsthat are weighing down on our
kids, is like when my sonbecomes 18, and he's ready to go
out into the world, he's justlike apathetic, he's just like
(14:38):
disinterested, like kind of thestereotypical, like boring,
disinterested teenager thatdoesn't have passion and zest
for life, and it's like itchingto get out of my house to go and
define his own life for himself, and so, yeah, that opportunity
is such a big part of it.
Speaker 1 (14:56):
It's interesting how, the more successful you become
in today's world, the more stuffyou have, the more you strive
and try to exit that you know,for you know during your leisure
time, if you will.
So you know we look at, we lookat our boys, and we try to
limit screens and do differentthings with respect to that.
But again going back to saying,hey, like you're going to go on
(15:18):
this camping trip for threedays, you're not going to be
around your parents, you'regoing to sleep outside.
You're not even going to sleepin a tent, you're going to sleep
under a tarp.
It's going to be 40 degrees,it's going to be raining.
These are things that a lot ofpeople, you know you're
listening and you're shakingyour head up and down and
thinking like, yeah, I did that,like I remember you're doing
those things and a lot of usthink back with fondness during
(15:40):
those memories when you were.
You know you weren'tcomfortable in those times and
what happens is, you know I tooka cold plunge this morning.
Okay, why on earth would I getinto a 40 some degree tank of
water first thing in the morning?
You know, for three, fourminutes, to the point where I'm
shivering and superuncomfortable when?
Well one, the data says thatand Dr Andrew Hooberman says
(16:03):
it's really good for me.
So that does that.
But it also sets the tone forthe day because it's like, well,
hey, if I can do something thatI literally did not want to do,
I paced around for like 15minutes.
I was picking up and like why amI like doing laundry and you
know, doing these little errandsand picking everything up
(16:23):
around the kitchen?
I'm like I don't really want toget into the cold plunge and I
only I have a 30 minute windowand I waited 15 minutes, so it's
, and I was like, all right,that's it.
I was like I'm going down, I'mdoing it, and when you do it and
you realize, you know what, Iovercame that, a version that I
had and I'm, I'm stronger.
Like a little part of me insidebecame stronger because I
(16:46):
realized I overcame that andthere's joy that comes from that
, you know.
And there's also, you know, aresiliency that you develop.
And that's what I think is youwere saying, ben, that's what
we're trying to develop.
Our children is that resiliency, when they're placed into an
uncomfortable or unfamiliarsituation, that they have the
(17:07):
skills, but really also themental fortitude to overcome.
Speaker 2 (17:11):
Yeah, and I loved it that the outdoor stuff was a big
part of this school, becausethat is, I think, the
environment where we are able tolearn those lessons in some of
the best ways.
Right, and yeah, through the,you know, the rigors of canoeing
and kayaking and the physicalstruggle and the teamwork, and
then the elements and then thecamping outside, to your point
to like I love that they're.
(17:32):
They're not an attempt, they'reunder the tarp and it's
freezing cold, like I think it'sit's also, like you guys aren't
intense.
Speaker 1 (17:37):
I didn't realize that I was like you're not, like
where's your tent?
Like oh, we sleep under a tarp.
Speaker 2 (17:41):
I'm like a tarp, like wow, that's, that's pretty,
that's all right, cool, yeah, alittle, a little bivouac, you
know, does a body good?
So that's the same idea towhere?
Yeah, like, okay, we go campingwith our kids or we take our
kids outside, and it's like wetry to make them as comfortable
as possible.
But the thing I've also learned, even just with my son being an
(18:02):
outdoor school again, when it'ssnowing they're out there and
so it's funny that sometimesthis other parent was just
making this comment around, like, oh, just, you know, be mindful
of this activity because thekids might get cold.
And I'm like, oh, he won't getcold.
Like he, he's totally fine.
Like this kid is banging on ourdoor as soon as a snowflake
hits the ground.
He's like, dude, let me outside.
Like barely getting his clotheson because he's just, he's
(18:25):
built up that, yeah, that thatfortitude to be able to
understand.
Like, oh, this isn't, thisisn't that bad.
And so I think, as as dads, it'sa good reminder to, I think,
beyond the health benefits ofthe cold punch that you
mentioned, because that's what Ihave to lean into to.
I'm like Huberman says this isgood, he swears it's good.
He better be right about this,because this is not enjoyable.
It's like I think we have toremind ourselves of that too,
(18:47):
because just as we don't wantour lives, for our kids to be so
comfortable that they don'tbenefit from that, we've got to
keep sharp too.
So I'm curious now, like Iwould love to explore a bit more
Of your athletic background andthen understand more about,
kind of like, how that's definedyour life today.
So take us back to, take usback to you know.
Where did your life as anathlete start, where did it peak
(19:10):
, and kind of what did that looklike for you?
Speaker 1 (19:12):
Yeah, I was.
I was thinking more about thedad part and that's about the
athlete part of the podcast aswe got going.
But yeah, so it's.
You know, you, you asked methat question and it is, it's
wild what our minds do, becauseI started racing bicycles when I
was 14 years old and you know,my mind went back and I'll never
forget that I was riding mybike around the neighborhood and
(19:35):
my son asked me the other dayswhy did you like to race, like,
why'd you like to ride?
I'll never forget that sense offreedom that I had by riding
and then ultimately crossing theroad, the big road with the
light, which I pushed the buttonto cross, and feeling like I
was now free, like able to doall these things that I couldn't
(19:55):
do before, because I couldleave the confines of my
neighborhood on a bicycle.
And it's amazing what that doesfor you.
And then I also was thinkingback and I lived in kind of a
blue collar neighborhood.
Remember these kids chasing meon the bike one day and they
couldn't catch me, and Iremember just thinking like I'm
pretty strong on the bike, likeI remember like these kids
(20:17):
couldn't catch me on the bike,and I just remember thinking
about that and ultimately, whathappened then is I got a.
This is when mountain bikesstarted to become popular in the
early 90s like 91, 92.
And I wanted a mountain bike.
So I had this old BMX bike thatI got when I was five and I was
about to turn 13.
I wanted a mountain bike.
So I got a new mountain bikefor my 13th birthday.
(20:39):
A big deal $350,.
I never forget Schwinn and HardRock, I think it was and I
started riding it but thereweren't a ton of trails.
So I started riding it a littlebit like on the road.
But my family friend he rode alot and we knew him from church,
(21:00):
family we knew from church andhe's like, oh, you got a new
bike, why don't you ride down toAnnapolis with me, which was 10
miles away?
And now it's like 10 miles,that's not very long.
But back then that was I waslike that's a long way.
We rode to Annapolis and backone Saturday morning he's like I
do this every Saturday and Iwas like that's neat.
And then he did a race and Iwas like, wow, clint's doing a
(21:20):
race.
I want to do a race.
So I was like, all right, I'mgoing to save up.
So I saved up.
I had a paper route.
I saved up all fall, all winter, all spring, and I bought my
first road bike when I was 14the next year and I went to my
first race.
And that first race I actuallymet my best friend, chris, and
(21:41):
I'll never forget we weresitting there and he was a year
younger than me.
I was like, oh, how often doyou ride your bike?
Like, how often do you train?
And he's like I train every day.
I'm like holy cow, I trainevery day.
I got to ride every day if Iwant to be good.
So I started.
I started riding every day.
The second or third race I did.
(22:02):
I had been training.
I sprinted out of the pack andI pass it everybody and I'm
coming up to the finish line.
I'll never forget that feelingLike I'm going to win this race.
And these are all adults, I'mracing against and I'm I think I
was still 14 at the time Aboutto win the race and my foot came
(22:22):
out of the pedal and I crashedhead first in the pavement.
So, from the what's thecommercial, from the thrill of
victory to the you know, to thepain of defeat is that what it
is, you know.
Speaker 2 (22:34):
I think it's something like that I could have
been on that.
Speaker 1 (22:37):
That's what ABC or you know sports commercial like
coming out of the pack and thenjust like face first into, like
yard sale, into the pavement.
But I was like I was going towin that race and kept racing,
won the state championship thenext year and, you know, started
to have some success and Ialways felt like I was a kid
(22:58):
that didn't really fit in Ben.
So for me I felt like I kind offound my tribe.
I found something that I was, Iwas good at and I was kind of a
nerd.
I played, I played in theorchestra, I played in the
marching band, I sung in thechurch choir, I was on the math
team.
My friends and I juggled likeyou know, this is like Uber nerd
right and let's not pretendlike cycling is the coolest
(23:20):
sport in the world and you're askinny 15 or 16 year old kid
that shaves his legs.
That doesn't really make youmore popular, frankly.
But I felt like I found my spotand that was really.
You know, not only did I findsomething that I was pretty good
at and you know I found my bestfriend in, but you know it also
was, it was, it was an outlet.
You know that really, you know,really gave me something and it
(23:43):
taught me so many things inlife.
But yeah, that was as well as30 years ago.
Speaker 2 (23:48):
That's awesome.
And talk about the rightenvironment to help somebody
succeed, like just one.
You know you having that momentwhere you realized, wow, this
kid trains every day.
Like that realization of like Ilove this, if I want to be good
at this, this is what the goodpeople do, and I need to commit
to that, and I think so manypeople I don't think even get
(24:09):
the opportunity to succeedbecause they aren't in an
environment to see, hey, likethis doesn't have to be your
thing, but like, if you want tobe really good at this, which is
also like there's many perksthat come along and many lessons
to be learned that come alongwith that, this is kind of what
it takes, and so I love that.
You had that environment and man, you literally ran with it.
Like that's an impressive leapto go from Road with it.
(24:30):
But, yeah, road with it.
Right, you really rode awaywith that thing.
Yeah, that you, you know, in avery short period of time,
transitioned that into you knowbeing, you know, the state
champion.
And I'm curious too you knowyou saved all this money to buy
your own bike.
Why was that an important piecefor you, that you were the one
that bought the bike?
Speaker 1 (24:50):
Yeah.
So you know what it'sinteresting I mentioned, my
father passed away when I wasyoung, so I had my mother, my
stepfather, and they werepassively supportive it's
probably the best way I candescribe it so they didn't
really hold me back, but theyalso really didn't push me.
And you know, like mystepfather played football in
high school and college.
(25:10):
He was the captain of hisfootball team.
You know my mother, she was amusic major, so, like you know,
that was her thing.
So for this kid you know this,you know skinny white kid, you
know that went from, you know,five foot nine, 135 pounds to
six feet 135 pounds in a summeras he was starting to race his
bike.
You know, this was a little,you know this was a little out
(25:33):
of the norm, you know foranybody.
But you know, for my parents Idon't really think they knew,
you know what to do and they'relike you're.
I just remember my mom thinkinglike I'd have my training
calendar and she'd be like, whydo you have to ride three hours
today?
It was just, it just didn'tmake sense to her.
So for me being able to, youknow, earn that bike, to go out
(25:54):
and buy that with my own money.
And then you know, ultimately,you know learn how to train and
you know I found a team that Iraced with and developed that.
It wasn't that it was importantto me at the time.
I take pride in it now, but itwas massively important because
(26:14):
I developed these skills andthese habits to be an individual
to you know learn how, to.
You know find information tobecome better, develop
relationships.
I was going out and gettingsponsors at the age of 15 to
help us pay for our expenses.
I was hitchhiking to races.
Essentially, you know hitchingrides from teammates and friends
.
You know sleeping on floors andit's pretty neat to see like
(26:38):
what you're capable of as ayoung individual.
You know in kind of.
You know kind of.
You know a sport that's kind of.
You know misfits, kind of likepunk rock in a way.
Speaker 2 (26:49):
Yeah, I mean I can't help but think about what an
outlier you seem to have been asa kid, like I think it's so
rare for young kids to take thatmuch initiative, and I think
probably something that you I'mguessing do is like you think
about, like, what are the thingsthat I found really valuable
about my own upbringing, my ownlife, and how do I translate
(27:10):
some of those benefits to yourown kids?
So you know, I know we talkedabout some of this might been
environmental, you know thedynamic with your losing your
father, but when you think aboutthat innate initiative, how do
you think about translating thatto your own kids today?
Speaker 1 (27:26):
Yes, excellent question.
It's something I've thoughtabout a lot in multiple aspects.
So, but let's take it from thesporting aspect.
So I've been asked oh, are yourkids going to race Like?
You want your kids to racebicycles First off, cycling is a
really difficult sport.
It's not a lot of fun to trainfor.
It's fun to do, it's fun to goride your bike, you know,
(27:48):
because all of that takes yourEinstein, you got the big smile
on the face riding the bike.
And it's fun to go out in thewoods on your bike.
And it's, it is fun.
But from a sporting perspective, endurance sports in general
aren't that fun to train for.
They're very grueling, you know, going out and riding for two,
three, four, five, six hours.
I train times 30 hours a week.
(28:09):
You know your crotch hurts,your back hurts, your legs hurt,
your neck hurts.
You know you have blisters onyour hands from just from
standing up and moving the bikeunderneath your body.
Like your hands have blisters,like it's a very grueling sport
that really it wears your bodyout, so much that if you look at
(28:30):
the physiologic statistics of acyclist doing the Tour de
France, it mirrors a patientthat's in hospice.
They're literally killingthemselves.
It is a grueling, gruelingsport.
So I was conscious of that.
But I also didn't want to forcemy children so that I could
live vicariously through theirsuccess.
I want them to love the sportof cycling, so I tried to give
(28:51):
my children exposure to a lot ofdifferent sports.
And what's wild is I said thisearlier they both chose the
sport of lacrosse.
So that is their passion, thatis their love, and the saying
that I have for them is ifyou're committed, I'm committed.
So I tell them like I willmirror your commitment level.
So if you want to do this andyou're training every day and
(29:13):
you want to go, you know if youneed to go eight hours to go to
a camp or a tryout for a teamand you've trained for it, I
will take you there.
You know if you need, if weneed to get on a plane to do
that, if you need specificequipment or coaching and you
are putting in your work, you dothat.
Oh, by the way, their job isfirst and foremost to go to
(29:39):
school and go to good grades.
That's their job.
So if they fall behind, iftheir grades are not Bs or above
, then they don't get screens,they don't get to go to practice
that day.
If they don't have theirassignments turned in, they're
not going to go to practicebefore they do their homework.
So like they have to do all thebasics and then they have to
(29:59):
show the commitment at asporting level, and this is a
fine balance too.
Duckworth talks about this inher book Grit.
The children, the individualsthat go on to be successful are
those that have a long-termvision of what they want
themselves to be as an athlete.
But as parents she talks abouthow it still is parents'
responsibility at times whenthese undeveloped, immature
(30:21):
individuals maybe they don'twant to do that.
We have to encourage them andexplain the importance of that.
I'll give you an example.
I'm sitting in, I'm fortunate, Ihave a hot tub, I have a pool,
we have a cold plunge, I have asauna.
So my son did like a littletraining bike race the other
night and I said, hey, I turnedthe hot tub one.
So we're sitting in the hot tubafterwards and kind of relaxing
(30:41):
a little bit and he's like oh,I didn't get a chance to
practice lacrosse today, dad.
And I said, like it's okay, youknow you don't have to practice
every day at your age.
I said but you should try toget 1% better.
And he's like, well, what doesthat mean?
And I explained it to him and Iwas like, well, if you get 1%
better every day, how muchbetter are you in a year?
And he said 365%.
(31:02):
I said that's a great answer,but that's not the right answer.
And I explained to him thecompounding effect and how that
riding his bike and developingendurance translates into
success on the lacrosse field.
To try to imprint the fact thatwhat his mindset every day
should be just a smallimprovement and it doesn't have.
(31:26):
It could be a mentalimprovement, it could be a
physical improvement.
It could be, you know, askill-based improvement.
You know it could.
It could be a socialimprovement, right, and you know
that's what I want.
I want my children to becritical thinkers and I want
them to just get up and use themost out of the time that they
have every day in Pursuit ofwhat their passion is all.
And look, if they decidetomorrow that they never want to
(31:47):
play the cross again, that'sokay.
Speaker 2 (31:50):
Yeah, chris, I love that framework of if you're
committed, I'm committed and I'mgonna mirror your level of
commitment.
That is.
That is amazing, because Ithink you see what happens
sometimes when that is out ofbalance, right, when the parent
is like very committed, and itsometimes can squash a little
bit of that intrinsic motivation, but it's like hey, I'm gonna,
I'm gonna mirror where you're at.
And I think you also hit on areally key part.
(32:11):
That man, I wish that I hadwonderful coaches growing up.
My dad was one of my coachesfor my entire life.
He was always literally in mycorner when I was wrestling and
I had that confidence of knowing, wow, yeah, he was there.
But the thing I wish I alwayshad more of as a kid is someone
to really paint that vision ofthe importance of Just, hey,
(32:32):
let's just bask in dreamingabout this for a little bit,
like I don't want to, you don't,you do not have to do this, but
like let's just dream aboutwhat this could feel like, be
like mean, like for you, and Ithink that that helps kind of
like pull people up a little bitmore to where it's like okay, I
want this, I'm in it, and it'slike great, I'm committed,
you're committed, I will mirroryou.
I'm here to support you.
(32:52):
Yeah, that's that's.
That's such a great way tothink about it, and I love the
way that you are literallyliving this out.
You talked about traveling foryour son's Practice to tell me
about what that, what that lookslike for you, I'll kind of use
another anecdote.
Speaker 1 (33:06):
So my son, same one, and they both.
You know I have my older son,so a lot of this stuff.
You know we have these, theseconversations at a little higher
level and my younger son isstarting to kind of have these
as well and we talk a lot abouthe.
Actually, my younger son ismore Interested in the business
side of things with me, eventhough we do basically the same
stuff on the sporting side.
But it's neat to have, you know, these conversations around
(33:28):
both athletics as well asbusiness and kind of relate
different stories.
But my older son, he said youknow, dad, it seems like you're
not as interested in cycling asmuch as you used to be and
you're more interested inlacrosse.
And I said, well, what makesyou say that?
And he said, well, you, youknow, you go to like lacrosse
games and you know we go, weeven go watch like professional
(33:49):
lacrosse games together.
And so why is that he goes?
That's what we do.
And I said, yeah, I said I canonly be in one place at a time,
you know.
But you know I do, I take mybike, like.
So we drove up to Maryland fromNorth Carolina was eight-hour
drive Actually it was more thanthat, it was nine or ten because
we're in northern Maryland, upnear Delaware, up near a Philly
Wilmington area and there's along drive and I took my bike up
(34:12):
with me.
So I rode when he was, you know, at practice and did that.
It's important to kind of kindof fit that stuff in, but it's,
you know, we have, we havelimited time.
His parents, right, we havelimited time, we have a window
and Jim Shields talks about like18 summers family boardroom.
It's a great, great book, greatresource.
(34:35):
If you're listening, youhaven't, haven't read it or seen
that yet.
The family boardroom I'm sorry,the family board meeting, yeah,
but I use that time with mysons to, you know, talk to them
to have those experiences.
So you know, there's somereally, really cool things that
we get to do and I've modeled,I've Intentionally built our
(34:57):
business in ways so that I havethat flexibility to do that.
But the thing is I still do, Istill am active and the boys
understand that there are timeswhen I'm gonna go do something
for me or dad or with my wife,like is, you know, we're gonna
go do some stuff and that theworld doesn't revolve around
them.
Like we say in our house.
(35:17):
We say team Larson, we are ateam, we're a family unit and
that means that we're part ofthe family first.
Then we're individuals belowthat.
So if the family is gonna dosomething, you know as a family,
if somebody's you knowcompeting or doing something,
we're gonna support thatindividual.
You know it's not always allabout, you know, the individual,
(35:38):
mm-hmm.
Speaker 2 (35:39):
I love that.
I mean, I just hear so manyways that Athletics has
influenced a lot of the waysthat you're showing up, and I
think you hit on it withbringing your bike and making
sure you're getting that time infor yourself.
It's that.
That's an important part of it.
You know there's there'scertainly sacrifices we have to
make as parents.
That's that's understood.
But I don't think that we doour kids a service to sacrifice
(36:01):
All of ourselves and what makesus whole and what makes us
better For the sake of thatright, we have to take that time
and and I think that that comesto one of our Pillars here at
the athlete dad is modelingambition and how important that
is.
Yeah, Tell me more about howhas being an athlete shaped the
way that you show up as dad?
Speaker 1 (36:24):
I think it really because of when I started racing
, you know, when I was literallykind of forming my framework
and then literally becoming anadult, it it has woven itself
not only into my psyche but also, you know, the the literal
being that I am and I spent 18years in the medical device
space.
I was in sales, I was in ORs, Icovered cases, I was on call
(36:46):
and as a hiring manager and itwas.
I had a training site.
The company I worked with and Iwas a hiring manager built
sales teams.
I always loved the higherathletes, because what does
athletics do?
It teaches you one you have toplan, you have to discipline,
you have to have, you know,structure in your life.
Oh, a great one.
(37:07):
I love delayed gratification.
Right, it's not all me, me, me,now, now, now it's like I'm
gonna, I am going to sacrificethis today for this in the
future and you mentioned itearlier been like painting that
vision.
You know.
So my, my sons and I talk aboutlike, oh, they want to play D1
lacrosse in college, awesome.
I love to hear him think aboutthat, because if you're 11 and
(37:28):
13, you're talking about whatyou need to do.
You know, five to ten years out.
Well, that cascades all the wayback through and it creates
these building blocks ofacademic, academics and, you
know, physical training andathletic training and teamwork,
and I have to, you know, learnhow to write and express myself
(37:49):
and, oh, maybe, put togetherhighlight reels and, you know,
promote and communicate.
It's like so many differentthings that fall into that stuff
.
So all of these things kind ofcascade down and are very
relatable and those thingstranslate into the professional
space, right, because, okay, wehave to train, we have to gather
this information and knowledgeand go to school, you know, to
(38:12):
do this and be these people.
I want to own a business.
I have to build a team, I haveto be a good team leader, I have
to model, you know what I wantmy team to be like, but I also
have to support those in my team.
I have to bring people into myteam that are better than me at
different things.
Maybe they're better suited,you know, physically, maybe
(38:32):
they're better suited mentally,maybe they're better suited, you
know, from an, from aneducation perspective.
All of these things, you know,matter, matter so much.
And then you know I was talkingto my older son, were having a
conversation, I just did a 72mile gravel Bike race this past
weekend, so it took me almostsix hours.
(38:55):
I mean is really hard for mebecause I don't I don't often
train more than an hour and ahalf or two hours, so there's a
long event.
So I had to kind of prepare andtrain and dial in my diet and I
lost, you know, I lost likeseven pounds, which for me is a
fair amount of weight.
You know, kind of feel good andand I had I had like the best,
you know, the best Performancethat I had this year.
So I was proud of that and myson was asked he's like, why do
(39:18):
you?
He's like, why do you like, whydo you still do these events?
Like you're not gonna win?
Like why do you still do them?
Said, it's for motivation.
Right, it's for motivation, andthat's what's great about
sports.
When you have a tournament, whenyou have an event coming up,
you're if, let's say, you go tothe gym, you go to the gym for
an hour a day and you havenothing that you're training for
(39:42):
aside from being healthier.
So I lay down on the bench to dosome bench press and I'm like,
okay, I'm gonna do 10 reps atthis weight.
Well, okay, maybe I'll justgive up at eight reps, like, if
I'm not pushing for something,if I'm on my bike and I'm, I'm
doing hill repeats right, likeintervals for people that know
(40:05):
what that is and I'm gonna gohard for three, four or five
minutes.
How hard am I going to go?
Well, if I have an event comingup and I know that maybe I'm
going to skip the beer, maybeI'm going to skip the pizza,
maybe I'm going to have thesalad, maybe I'm going to have
the protein shake, maybe I'mgoing to ride a little harder,
those events, that motivatingfactor, whatever it is in your
(40:26):
life that you're competing forathletics, business, personally,
academically it will make youbetter, it will make you sharper
, it will make you be morefocused.
Look, life is an energy game.
Use your energy, focus thatenergy.
We all have the same number ofhours and days and time from day
(40:50):
to day.
You have to find things thatwill focus your energy and your
effort.
That's ultimately going to makeyou better.
Hack that system and make itwork for you.
I think it's important that werelate that to our children as
well.
Speaker 2 (41:03):
Yeah, I really feel that.
I mean, that was something thatI think was a big part of why I
felt the need to continuepursuing athletic endeavors
myself.
I'm not going to put up anyrecords, I'm not going to be the
fastest to climb X or the firstto climb whatever, but it was
still such an important part ofmy life and how I felt I needed
(41:26):
to show up as a dad, as a human.
I think the goal piece is man.
If I ever, I try not to giveany unsolicited advice.
I try to ask more questionsthan I speak.
The one piece of advice that Iam always unabashedly giving is
you've got to have a goal.
You've got to have somethingyou're working towards because,
(41:47):
to your point, it has thisamazing ability to elevate your
abilities in all aspects of yourlife.
It has the ability to unifyeverything in my life and make
my priorities crystal clear.
I named this event coming up, soI know, working backwards, like
my diet's going to be dialed,which means that my time has to
(42:09):
be dialed because I have to planfor all these things.
That means that my sleep hasgot to be dialed.
That means that when I'm withthe family, I am very deliberate
about being present, becausethis is a finite amount of time.
Based on the other timecommitments that I've got, I
just feel like I show up so muchbetter in all these aspects.
Then, too, there's long trainingdays that I feel you as an
endurance athlete.
There's some six, seven hourdays in the mountains.
(42:31):
I'm like, oh man.
But I'm like, well, is it goingto be easier in Alaska?
No, dude, it's going to be wayharder, way longer, way colder.
It's like, dude, I got to getmy butt moving, whereas if I'm
just out there which is okay,it's okay to just go out and
enjoy it sometimes, but it'slike if I'm training for it,
it's going to be at a differentlevel of intentionality.
So, yeah, I really feel thatimportance of the goals setting
(42:55):
there.
Love that.
Speaker 1 (42:57):
Yeah, that's what it's all about.
It's like, hey, if you canbusiness, family health,
whatever it may be in your life,you should have a goal like the
one thing, right, bill Keller,is it Bill Keller, the one thing
?
I'm not sure he talks aboutKeller Williams.
He founded Keller Williams andhe says what's the one thing in
(43:18):
your life that you can do?
That will make everything elseeasier.
And I think when you have agoal, it should make, like you
just said, it should cascadedown.
It should be that filter thatyou look through and says, okay,
my training is going to beeasier, my diet is going to be
easier, everything is going tobe easier because I'm looking
through this lens, I'm workingtowards this, and that can be
(43:39):
applied to any area of your life.
I think it's such an importantvision and again, it's more a
goal of vision, long-term vision.
Again, going back to the grid,she said it's that vision that's
what determined those thatbecame successful professionally
from those that did not.
It was the vision that they sawand felt in themselves that
(44:00):
brought them to that point inthe future.
Speaker 2 (44:02):
Yeah, the intentionality piece.
Earlier you hit on this ideathat, and it's so true, and I
think parents, the older ourkids get, the more we feel it of
how finite that time is, howquickly that time goes Really,
by the time they're 10 or 11,they're now out in their events
and with their friends andthere's just less and less time
we get with them in thosemoments.
And so I think that that putsthis healthy paranoia in me of I
(44:28):
have got to be present and Ithink having a goal facilitates
your ability to be present, tobe intentional, because I think
the biggest thing that we wouldregret as a parent is looking
back and being like man I reallymissed a lot because I was not
as intentional as I needed to bein those moments.
Speaker 1 (44:49):
Agreed and look, you brought up kind of the
double-edged sword of thesethings and the reason I quit
competing.
And this was like eight,actually 10 years ago really.
The last year I really competedat a high level was 10 years
ago in the cycling space, andthen I did some events for a
couple years, but what happenedwas I realized I wasn't being
(45:12):
present for the number one thingin my life, which was my family
.
I would be thinking I'm at thissoccer game, but I should be
riding my bike right now, foranother hour.
Or yeah, I want to go out todinner with the family but I
don't want to eat what they'reeating because it's going to
affect my weight.
And it really just started toeat at me internally and I was
(45:34):
like, okay, I need to have adifferent vision for what
athletics and competition looklike for me.
And actually it's interesting.
I just got asked by one of mymasterminds or one of the
masterminds I'm a part of to doa triathlon next year and he's
like, come on, man, he's likeyou could probably do it without
(45:55):
training.
I was like I could.
The problem is I know, ben, thatI am not capable of doing that
event and not having this shiftmentally.
I'm like, okay, I'm going to goswim, I got to run, I got to
ride, I got to do this.
I'm going to go buy.
I got to buy a new bike and Igot to train this much.
I'm going to do more swimming.
So that's right, I'm going tohave to swim in the mornings,
(46:15):
which means I'm going to miss mykids in the morning.
So all of a sudden, this onething that's really not that
consequential.
It would be neat to do, butreally not that impactful for me
.
It's not really going to changewho I am in any real way, shape
or form.
It's really going to detractfrom the other things that I
have in my life and I thinkthat's part as we become parents
(46:36):
.
So from an athlete to a dad, toan athlete dad, you have to say
, okay, how do I incorporatethese?
So it's healthy from all levels.
And that doesn't mean you can'tdo that.
If you're listening and it'sreally important to you to
compete in an event, I think itis 100% healthy and okay to set
that up, okay to set aside timefor that, and away from your
(46:59):
family, because it's importantto be able to explain to your
children I am going to go dothis because this is something
that's important to me and thenletting them see that when we
were on our family road trip, mywife and I went to CrossFit and
the boys came and next thingyou know they're doing the
workouts with us because theysee it and they're like, oh,
this is like, this is like whatyou do and they want to be a
(47:22):
part of that.
So when you do that, you modelthat behavior.
It spills over.
You just have to be veryconscious of how it's going to
affect the other areas of yourlife as a parent, in my opinion.
Speaker 2 (47:35):
Agreed and I think that you I always say that your
ability to balance family andyour pursuits is sort of the
litmus test of the health ofyour ambitions.
Are these rooted in somethingthat's really healthy or is this
rooted in something that is not?
And I think that when it'srooted in principles and it's
coming from a healthy place,it's a bummer to miss those
(47:59):
things, but it almost becomes avery easy decision because your
priorities are clear, yourvalues are clear and we can
filter them through those things.
And I mean, when we think aboutthese three aspects of how
we've kind of built the athletedad of modeling ambition,
balancing family and integratingfamily, none of them are easy
and they all blend into eachother.
Right, like to be ambitious, wehave to make sacrifices of time.
(48:22):
So then we had how do we strikea balance?
And then, okay, well, I don'twant to just be pursuing these
things in the absence of myfamily.
I would love to integrate myfamily in them as much as
possible.
So how do I weave them in in athoughtful way?
That still helps me?
And it's, I think, this kind ofconstant quest to like.
I don't think we ever nail it,but I think it's the quest of
(48:43):
pursuing balance and ambitionand all these things that like,
we find a lot of fulfillment andwe show up as our best selves.
Speaker 1 (48:51):
That's a great point.
And, you know, maybe evenbalance is kind of a misnomer
right, because you know it's.
It's like homeostasis in ourbodies.
Our bodies are trying toconstantly achieve homeostasis
and keep things in quote unquotebalanced, but in reality it's
never in balance.
We're always kind of a littlebit off.
And that's what resiliency is,which is the ability to get off
(49:13):
balance, kind of going fullcircle, as we talked about, you
know, getting our kids out inthe wilderness.
You get off, you know, offkilter a little bit.
How far off kilter can you getand still get back to that point
that's healthy and that'swhat's.
I think that's what resiliencyis and you know it's.
It's like, hey, I'm going to godo this for a while.
Can you go spend three weeks onthe Grand Canyon and come back
(49:37):
and still have a healthybusiness, a healthy family,
healthy relationships?
You know, can you do that?
Like that's resiliency andthat's that's.
You know that's not reallybalanced, but that is what
balance is right.
It's the ability to have theresiliency in those areas of
your life to go and get offbalance and come back and be
back in balance.
Speaker 2 (49:58):
I've never thought of it that way, of the resiliency
and the ability Like that.
That's what allows you to go outof balance and bring it back.
That's a really great way tothink about it, and I think that
you I agree on the what balanceis, and balance is different
for everybody but I agree thatit's not Okay five minutes of
this and then five minutes ofthat, and then five.
It's this oscillation betweenthings and, to your point,
(50:20):
coming back and thencompensating in certain areas to
make up for the fact that wehaven't done this.
And I think I've learned thisfrom our mutual friend, john
Roman, of this idea of, okay, ifI'm going to go to this event,
then to make sure that I'mstriking a balance, I need to
invest in my family before theevent and I need to make sure
(50:41):
I'm intentional about investingin my family after the event, so
that I'm investing, I filledour cups, I go to the event and
then I catch up afterwards sothat, yes, I'm not like at the
event, like with my family onthe phone, but it's like I'm
balancing those things in asbest a way I can.
Speaker 1 (50:59):
Yeah, that's a great point.
And then also beingconscientious of the fact that
if, like me, you can't do that,at some point you have to say,
okay, I need to make someadjustments.
So for me, I'm not going.
I'm not going to really like,I'll do some events, but I'm
really not going to race twiceanymore.
(51:19):
And people ask me like, do youmiss it?
I really don't, because I got alot out of the sport and I miss
the competition because I loveto compete, but I also don't
love who it made me at that time, and that person that I was
wasn't really congruent with thebest father that I could be.
(51:40):
I could be a good spouse, Icould be a good business person,
but I couldn't do those and bea good father and compete at the
highest level, just for who Iam.
And maybe that's not a goodthing.
But I think being able to lookin the mirror and acknowledge
that and then kind of say, okay,well, I'm going to kind of
moderate this to a degree, is,you know, that's what we just
(52:02):
have to be cognizant of.
Speaker 2 (52:04):
This.
I see this theme of this veryacute self-awareness that is so
common in so many of theseathlete dads that I speak with,
and I wonder how much of thatcomes from a kind of a benefit
of competing as an athlete at ahigh level, because when you are
, you are very in tune withevery aspect of your body, your
physical, like every part ofyour body, every part of your
(52:27):
mind, and you are justconstantly looking at this
feedback, and I can't help butwonder if that is a benefit that
we bring to how we show up inour life as dad, as spouse.
Is that, like, we're lookingfor that feedback?
We're constantly in tune withthings and we are, most
importantly then, able to knowhow to pivot to accommodate the
new environment we've foundourselves in.
Speaker 1 (52:49):
Oh, I think it's.
I think it's for anybody thatis successful at a high level.
You know self-awareness, youknow it's a huge thing.
Look, if you're a narcissistand you're not self-aware and
you can't kind of reallyunderstand anything outside of
you know your ownself-importance, then that's
going to hold you back and atsome point it's going to lead to
(53:11):
destruction in some area ofyour life.
Now, as an athlete, you couldprobably get away with that for
a longer period of time, likeit's kind of a you know, a lack
of self-awareness.
But you know you have tounderstand as an athlete.
Okay, what am I consuming, whatam I doing, how am I feeling.
So you're constantly looking inthe mirror and evaluating.
I had a food journal and atraining journal and you're
(53:33):
always looking at that stuff.
But then you also have to lookat your competition and say
where do I fit inside of thecompetition?
And you know, if you're on afootball field and you're built
like me and you're like, oh, inmy head I'm 350 pounds and I'm
just a monster and I run intosomebody that's actually 350
pounds, I'm probably going tobreak my body If I'm again like
(53:55):
me and I'm on a bicycle and Idon't have the physiologic stats
of the best guys out that I'mracing against.
I have to be aware of that, Ihave to train for that, and then
I have to develop the skill setand the awareness in the race.
So I have to take advantage ofthe situation in a different way
.
You know it's like, you know,looking at a chessboard and
(54:18):
taking advantage of a player.
You know that maybe is a littletoo self-confident and doing
that sort of thing.
So, yeah, I think that the bestathletes at the highest levels
develop that self-awareness andyou know that's certainly, again
, that's going to be a benefitthat crosses over to so many
areas of your life.
Yeah, I love that.
Speaker 2 (54:38):
All this sounds great of go pursue your goals, spend
all this time with your kids,you know, be present, all that.
But there's this constraintthat exists within it and that's
like, well, I have to work,I've got to go make money so
that I can buy the road bike, soI can take my kids to these
things, so I can do all thesethings right.
And you have been verydeliberate about building your
life and the work that you'vedone so that you have the
(54:58):
ability, both from a timeperspective, financially all
these other aspects to be ableto be present, to show up as the
best dad, as the best athlete,the best spouse.
Tell me a bit about how you'vedone that and why you think that
that mindset of deliberatelydesigning your job, your
finances, that way, are soimportant for dads, for men,
(55:19):
today.
Speaker 1 (55:21):
Yeah, look, our business Next Level Income is.
The mission is to helpindividuals achieve financial
independence through education.
So we have a podcast, we have ablog, we've got a free book
that you can get on our website,nextlevelincomecom if you want
to check that out but alsoinvestments, investment
opportunities.
So we try to help individualsachieve financial independence.
(55:42):
Now, the way I got to thismission and the way I developed
it in my own life then wasprobably a little unfortunate.
Like I lost my father at ayoung age.
I think I had a very strongawareness of the finitude right
the fact that time is finite.
But then my best friend that Imentioned earlier, chris, my
training partner that said, hey,you got to train every day.
He died in between my freshmanand sophomore year in college
(56:07):
and, after racing for anotheryear, actually quit.
After that my team went pro, Idid and I quit and I was like
well, I don't want to haveregrets Like I want to be
intentional about the way I livemy life.
I don't want to pass upopportunities that are out there
, but you have to have money todo that.
So when I was 21 years old, Iset out on this pursuit of
(56:30):
financial independence andfiguring out how to achieve that
, which is why we built ourbusiness around that and why I
have the lifestyle I do today.
So if you're listening and youhave your own business or you're
a high income, high stressprofessional like I was I was on
call for 12 years of my careerthen you have to create a
(56:52):
pathway for yourself to havemore freedom as a parent, as a
father.
A great book is Die With Zero.
That's out there.
It talks about how you can kindof have your cake and eat it
too.
It's what we do with ourcoaching program, so we help
people make more money, keepmore of their money, through tax
and legal strategies and alsohow to grow your money through
investments.
(57:12):
Everything that we've talkedabout today is my why.
My family is my, why my timewith my children is my, why my
ability to go out and make animpact in the community is my,
why the how are basically realestate investments that generate
the passive income to do thosethings.
And again, if you want to learnmore about it, you can check us
out at nextlevelincomecom.
If you're listening today, youcan get a free copy of our book
(57:33):
there as well.
Awesome.
Speaker 2 (57:36):
I love that.
I wish we could.
I hope it deserves its ownentire episode of how do we help
people become more financiallyfree so that they can pursue
those whys.
But, Chris man, I reallyappreciate the time that it has
flown by for me and I think we.
Speaker 1 (57:49):
I know I'm like wow, it's already.
Yeah, we've been going an hour,it's been crazy.
Speaker 2 (57:53):
We hit on so many topics and I feel just an
amazing sense of gratitudebecause I feel like I have taken
off a lot of really high valuethings for myself and so just
want to express my gratitude toyou, and I will definitely share
all the many resources wetalked about on the show notes,
but I am so excited to continuefollowing along on your journey.
Keep the conversation going.
I just want to say thank you somuch again for your time.
Speaker 1 (58:16):
Ben, thank you, it's been a blast.
I love what you're doing, Ilove the concept, as I told you
when we first connected, and ifyou're listening today, thank
you for spending the time hereon the TopGest today.
Speaker 2 (58:33):
This has been an episode of the Athlete Dad
Podcast.
As always, we'd really loveyour support in helping to get
this podcast out into the world.
You can do that by sharing itwith somebody you care about,
who you think would reallyappreciate the content of what
we talk about.
You can also like and review onall podcast platforms.
So go give us some love.
It's much appreciated and itcertainly helps us out keeping
(58:55):
the show going.
It really underscores how time is finite, and with
finitude comes gratitude.
So when you realize thatsomething is finite, you
appreciate it that much more.
These are the things that Ithink aren't readily apparent
and we might say, hey, there'sthis disadvantage, we need to
correct for that disadvantage.
But what if we're actuallydoing a disservice to that
(00:21):
individual, that group of peoplethat we're trying to help?
Speaker 2 (00:27):
This is the ATHLETE Dad Podcast, where we explore
the intersection betweenphysical pursuits and fatherhood
.
I'm Ben Gibson, and if you'rean ambitious dad that is
pursuing or looking to pursueyour athletic passions now while
improving the way you show upat home, then this is a show for
you.
As an athlete dad, I'm alwaysintrigued by how dads that are
(00:58):
athletes raise their kids thatare also athletes.
There's a lot of topics I'vebeen wanting to explore in this
area, because I think it's aninteresting and complex topic
that I don't think that, despiteour best efforts, I don't think
many dads that are athletesnail this topic as well as they
want to.
So I'm very excited to havetoday's guest, chris Larson, on
(01:21):
to talk about this topic andmore.
Chris is the founder andmanaging partner of a company
called Next Level Income, buthis athletic background is in
competitive cycling.
Chris was an all-Americancyclist.
He was top five at the nationalchampionships and was
eventually top 10 in the worldchampionships.
Today, chris isn't just acyclist, but he's also doing
(01:42):
amazing things like rafting theGrand Canyon, climbing Mount
Rainier and any other outdoorpursuits, especially if he can
find a way to incorporate hisfamily in it.
Most importantly, chris is afather of two teenage boys and a
husband to his wife who, by theway, they just recently
celebrated a huge weddinganniversary.
So congrats to Chris andJessica.
But in my conversation withChris, we hear about how he
(02:04):
helps to nurture his own kids'passions, which are very
different than his own.
How he thinks about balancinghis kids' sports with school and
family and responsibilities.
He talks about some greatmental frameworks that I really
love for how he approaches howyou engage with your kids and
their passions and theircommitments.
And I just loved howintentional Chris is about how
(02:27):
he navigates being a husband,being a father, how he navigates
his career, how he navigateshis family's finances so that
he's deliberately settinghimself up for success, to have
time and to have resources to beable to live the life he wants.
And if you're even just aparent that just wants to help
your kids get the most out oftheir own athletic experiences,
(02:48):
I think you're going to lovethis episode.
As a bonus for our listeners,chris is giving away a free copy
of his book Next Level Income,which, to put it into context,
of why this is great for athletedads.
It's a way to help more parentsachieve greater financial
independence so that you can goout and pursue more of your
athletic passions and spend moretime with your family by having
(03:10):
a better financial setup.
I've added that, and all theother resources we talk about in
this episode, into the shownotes.
So, without further ado, pleaseenjoy this episode with Chris
Larson.
Well, chris, good morning.
Thank you so much for coming onthe podcast today.
I'm so excited for ourconversation.
(03:31):
Yeah, man, great to see you,ben.
Something I think would bereally helpful is setting the
context of what your life lookslike right now.
So I think about this really interms of two buckets something
that you're excited about insideof the home and something that
you're really excited aboutoutside of the home.
So help us understand a bitmore about yourself and what
it's like to be Dad, chris.
(03:53):
All that right now.
Speaker 1 (03:55):
Yeah, so I appreciate that, Ben, I have two boys, 11
and 13, and they are both inmiddle school.
So they're both in the samemiddle school.
And you know, what I'm reallyexcited about is we live in
Asheville, North Carolina, andwe were able to get them into.
It's an all boys middle school,small, small classes 12 kids to
(04:15):
class, 24 kids a grade myyounger son's in six, my older
son's in eight but it's anoutdoor based school.
Every Wednesday Like yesterdaywas Wednesday and they went out
and they canoed.
So they actually went actuallyon.
My older son canoed and myyounger son height and that was
there.
That was what they did forschool.
And then they write a reportabout it and they talk about
(04:36):
things like teamwork, you know,working together as a team
inside the canoe and buildingrelationships and those sorts of
things.
They still talk about what theylearned.
They're learning how to beyoung men.
That's really exciting to getto see them kind of grow and
develop.
They're also both into lacrosse.
So we spent a lot of time onthe weekends and you know,
traveling with them and doingthose things.
(04:56):
So it's fun to see yourchildren to develop passions
around things that they weren'tlike.
I wasn't a lacrosse player.
It's really cool to see thathappening as well.
I'm also married, my wife and I.
Something that's exciting is intwo days we're going to be
celebrating our 17th weddinganniversary.
(05:17):
We've actually been togetherfor 22 years, you know, so
that's something that I'm firedup.
I think it's a testament to youknow our commitment to one
another and being married isn'teasy, so you have to work at it,
you have to do things, but ourmarriage or relationship, is as
strong as it's ever been.
So inside, the house got a lotof stuff with my family I'm
excited about outside, from abusiness perspective, we're
(05:41):
about to launch some funds inour business, which is really
going to be a great thing forinvestors, so I'm fired up about
that as well.
Speaker 2 (05:47):
That's awesome, oh my gosh, and I love the outdoor
school idea.
So I want to dig into that abit more, because that's
something that we've actuallydone with our oldest son in
preschool.
He goes to this all outdoorpreschool, which there's so many
things I love about it.
I remember the first time wegot his school gear list and it
wasn't like pens and pencils.
(06:08):
It was like you need waterproofboots, you need heavy parka,
you know, like all these reallycool things, because rain or
shine, snow, whatever they'reout there and I think that
there's so many things that comefrom that valuable experience.
What helped you all make thatshift?
Because was this something theyhad ever done?
Speaker 1 (06:28):
before.
Speaker 2 (06:28):
Or is this a new transition?
Speaker 1 (06:30):
Yeah, so this is so.
My older son started in sixthgrade at this school and, to get
a little personal, our olderson was not thriving in the
school he was in before.
And look, there are things thatwe're not supposed to talk
about in society these days andI think that's that is really
harmful in a lot of ways,because things like, oh, boys
(06:51):
and girls aren't different, thatthere's really good research,
especially when it comes toschool and learning, that boys
and girls are very different,they develop at different rates,
and some people may not likethat I'm saying this, but when
you say, hey, there's nodifferences between genders,
we're basically, you know, ifnot discounting we're, if not
(07:12):
throwing away, we're discountingthat research that's out there.
And there are cases I'm notgoing to, I'm not going to say
they're not, they're not earnedcases, and I have a lot of
experience in our own familywith with those cases
specifically.
So I'm not going to say that Idon't think that's possible, but
in general, boys learndifferently than girls and they
(07:33):
develop at different rates thangirls.
So when, when we notice some ofthese challenges that my son
was was facing in this, you knowwe'll call it a feminized
school system, which was, youknow, almost all female teachers
, female administrators.
You know it's a lot of, a lotof women and you know it's just.
It's just different when youhave a little active boy that's
(07:53):
being, quote unquote, disruptivein class.
And there really wasn't anythingwrong per se with my son, aside
from the fact that he needed tobe more active and he learns in
different ways.
So when we learned about thisschool and we brought him in, it
was we saw a couple of thingsthat were really interesting.
One, the activity level was wasoff the charts, right.
(08:17):
So when you're they're activethroughout the day, active
throughout the week, not just inactivities and sports and
different things, you know, butbut camping and doing service
work and going out and, you know, pulling garbage out of the
rivers that you know, aroundAsheville, like you know,
teaching, teaching these youngboys to serve not only
themselves but also thecommunities, which is which is
(08:38):
really impressive.
But also what really impressedme, because my younger son was
in the public school system atthe time, the public schools.
So as a fifth grader they wereactually teaching a fourth grade
curriculum and in this newschool they said well, we're not
going to slow down, we're goingto your son is going to get
(08:58):
caught in sixth grade to sixthgrade curriculum and if they've
fallen behind during COVID, webelieve that they will catch up
and they will rise to the levelthat's expected of them.
And that was a very refreshingperspective and I think it's
something that you know we canall take as parents and learn
from, which is, if you have lowexpectations for your children,
(09:20):
they're probably going to riseto those expectations and if you
, if you have high expectationsand you support them and give
them the right environment, theycan thrive and achieve more
than we thought they couldbelieve.
And again, that's somethingelse we've seen society today
which is, hey, you can't do thatbecause you have this
disadvantage right, and thatthat really you know.
(09:43):
That's unfortunate, because Ithink we all have this innate
potential inside of us and wecan come about it from an
athletic perspective, you knowlater on in this conversation,
but it's amazing what people canachieve even when it doesn't
appear like they have thatcapability on the outside.
Speaker 2 (10:01):
I couldn't agree with that more.
I think you know, and I thinkabout the way that a lot of
society approaches thedisadvantages.
Oftentimes, you know, and tosort of generalize here,
oftentimes I think that theinitial reaction is like oh well
, this is challenging for them,let's make it easier.
And I think that that onedoesn't doesn't serve them right
, because the I agree with youon the idea of people typically
(10:24):
rise to the expectations thatyou set for them and I think the
environment is really key forthat.
Like we have, there's aresponsibility to put them in an
environment, the resources toenable them to rise to those
occasions.
But I also think that, like youknow, think about your own
story and I think about thismyself, and I can't think of a
single successful person whothis isn't true for where those
(10:46):
disadvantages are such animportant part of their story.
They were the pivotal momentsfor them that were
transformative of.
Here was this setback, here wasthis limitation, here was this
disadvantage, and it is becauseof that that I succeeded.
Speaker 1 (11:02):
I think you hit the nail on the head and it's not
even in spite of, it's becauseof and you can look at this from
a few different things like Iraised bicycles, you know,
starting 30 years ago, Iremember the first races that I
lost, the first events that Ilost like, and those drove me to
be better.
But there's, there's researchon this.
Malcolm Gladwell talks aboutthis in his book David versus
(11:22):
Goliath.
He also wrote the book Outliersand I'm sure you know my
parents are familiar with thisbecause of the when you're, when
you're chilled when your childis born.
They talked about Canadianhockey players and the best.
We're all born in the earlypart of the year because they
matured a little bit quickerthan the kids that were later on
the year.
My wife's Canadian and you knowbig, you know people love
(11:44):
hockey in Canada.
We actually one of our firstkind of neat of neat things.
We watched the avalanche whenthe Stanley Cup together and I
was like this is cool, my wifelikes to watch hockey,
girlfriend.
But Malcolm Gladwell talks aboutdesirable difficulties and for
me it hit home because I lost myfather at age five.
And Malcolm talks about howthere's this disproportionate
(12:07):
number of American presidents,ceos, successful individuals
that lost parents at a young age.
Now what and he calls themdesirable difficulties?
Now, you certainly do not wantto lose a parent, definitely
don't want to lose a father.
You know as a son.
We know, we know the statisticson single family households.
(12:29):
You know, and that's why it'sso important to have, you know,
the family unit, in my opinion.
So losing a parent, losing afather, is not an advantage in
any way, shape or form.
So why do these people go on tobe successful?
It's a great question.
One, because they had thesupport, they had the right
community around them, you know.
Maybe they had a strong, youknow, parental figure.
But two, they learned toovercome something that was a
(12:54):
drastic, drastic setback for achild.
And it also it reallyunderscores how time is finite
and with finitude comesgratitude right.
So when you realize thatsomething is finite, you
appreciate it that much more.
So you know again these.
These are the things that Ithink aren't readily apparent
(13:15):
and we might say, hey, there'sthis disadvantage, we need to
correct for that disadvantage.
But what if we're actuallydoing a disservice to that
individual, that group of peoplethat we're trying to help?
We have to be very careful withthat.
Speaker 2 (13:28):
Yeah, and I think you hit it too with the.
You know the idea of opportunitylike so much of being a parent.
I've found in my shortexperiences that, man, I've
really got to give my kids theopportunities to succeed, and I
think especially opportunitiesto struggle, because you know,
we all work really hard like wehave to provide for our families
, like we want to have a nicelifestyle, and with that also
(13:51):
comes some of the missedopportunities that many of us
had as kids.
You know, I remember a lot ofstruggles as a kid and it is
again because of many of thosestruggles that I live the life
that I have today.
And I think that you know it'slike, yes, I want to be
financially successful and welloff and not have to worry about
those things, but now I have tointroduce deliberate
opportunities for my son tostruggle in a really healthy way
(14:15):
to learn some of those lessonsand so, yeah, removing that
opportunity is doing them adisservice and I think, like the
most, the thing I am mostafraid of because of that and
also because of you know this issort of a tangent, but like
technology and all these thingsthat are weighing down on our
kids, is like when my sonbecomes 18, and he's ready to go
out into the world, he's justlike apathetic, he's just like
(14:38):
disinterested, like kind of thestereotypical, like boring,
disinterested teenager thatdoesn't have passion and zest
for life, and it's like itchingto get out of my house to go and
define his own life for himself, and so, yeah, that opportunity
is such a big part of it.
Speaker 1 (14:56):
It's interesting how, the more successful you become
in today's world, the more stuffyou have, the more you strive
and try to exit that you know,for you know during your leisure
time, if you will.
So you know we look at, we lookat our boys, and we try to
limit screens and do differentthings with respect to that.
But again going back to saying,hey, like you're going to go on
(15:18):
this camping trip for threedays, you're not going to be
around your parents, you'regoing to sleep outside.
You're not even going to sleepin a tent, you're going to sleep
under a tarp.
It's going to be 40 degrees,it's going to be raining.
These are things that a lot ofpeople, you know you're
listening and you're shakingyour head up and down and
thinking like, yeah, I did that,like I remember you're doing
those things and a lot of usthink back with fondness during
(15:40):
those memories when you were.
You know you weren'tcomfortable in those times and
what happens is, you know I tooka cold plunge this morning.
Okay, why on earth would I getinto a 40 some degree tank of
water first thing in the morning?
You know, for three, fourminutes, to the point where I'm
shivering and superuncomfortable when?
Well one, the data says thatand Dr Andrew Hooberman says
(16:03):
it's really good for me.
So that does that.
But it also sets the tone forthe day because it's like, well,
hey, if I can do something thatI literally did not want to do,
I paced around for like 15minutes.
I was picking up and like why amI like doing laundry and you
know, doing these little errandsand picking everything up
(16:23):
around the kitchen?
I'm like I don't really want toget into the cold plunge and I
only I have a 30 minute windowand I waited 15 minutes, so it's
, and I was like, all right,that's it.
I was like I'm going down, I'mdoing it, and when you do it and
you realize, you know what, Iovercame that, a version that I
had and I'm, I'm stronger.
Like a little part of me insidebecame stronger because I
(16:46):
realized I overcame that andthere's joy that comes from that
, you know.
And there's also, you know, aresiliency that you develop.
And that's what I think is youwere saying, ben, that's what
we're trying to develop.
Our children is that resiliency, when they're placed into an
uncomfortable or unfamiliarsituation, that they have the
(17:07):
skills, but really also themental fortitude to overcome.
Speaker 2 (17:11):
Yeah, and I loved it that the outdoor stuff was a big
part of this school, becausethat is, I think, the
environment where we are able tolearn those lessons in some of
the best ways.
Right, and yeah, through the,you know, the rigors of canoeing
and kayaking and the physicalstruggle and the teamwork, and
then the elements and then thecamping outside, to your point
to like I love that they're.
(17:32):
They're not an attempt, they'reunder the tarp and it's
freezing cold, like I think it'sit's also, like you guys aren't
intense.
Speaker 1 (17:37):
I didn't realize that I was like you're not, like
where's your tent?
Like oh, we sleep under a tarp.
Speaker 2 (17:41):
I'm like a tarp, like wow, that's, that's pretty,
that's all right, cool, yeah, alittle, a little bivouac, you
know, does a body good?
So that's the same idea towhere?
Yeah, like, okay, we go campingwith our kids or we take our
kids outside, and it's like wetry to make them as comfortable
as possible.
But the thing I've also learned, even just with my son being an
(18:02):
outdoor school again, when it'ssnowing they're out there and
so it's funny that sometimesthis other parent was just
making this comment around, like, oh, just, you know, be mindful
of this activity because thekids might get cold.
And I'm like, oh, he won't getcold.
Like he, he's totally fine.
Like this kid is banging on ourdoor as soon as a snowflake
hits the ground.
He's like, dude, let me outside.
Like barely getting his clotheson because he's just, he's
(18:25):
built up that, yeah, that thatfortitude to be able to
understand.
Like, oh, this isn't, thisisn't that bad.
And so I think, as as dads, it'sa good reminder to, I think,
beyond the health benefits ofthe cold punch that you
mentioned, because that's what Ihave to lean into to.
I'm like Huberman says this isgood, he swears it's good.
He better be right about this,because this is not enjoyable.
It's like I think we have toremind ourselves of that too,
(18:47):
because just as we don't wantour lives, for our kids to be so
comfortable that they don'tbenefit from that, we've got to
keep sharp too.
So I'm curious now, like Iwould love to explore a bit more
Of your athletic background andthen understand more about,
kind of like, how that's definedyour life today.
So take us back to, take usback to you know.
Where did your life as anathlete start, where did it peak
(19:10):
, and kind of what did that looklike for you?
Speaker 1 (19:12):
Yeah, I was.
I was thinking more about thedad part and that's about the
athlete part of the podcast aswe got going.
But yeah, so it's.
You know, you, you asked methat question and it is, it's
wild what our minds do, becauseI started racing bicycles when I
was 14 years old and you know,my mind went back and I'll never
forget that I was riding mybike around the neighborhood and
(19:35):
my son asked me the other dayswhy did you like to race, like,
why'd you like to ride?
I'll never forget that sense offreedom that I had by riding
and then ultimately crossing theroad, the big road with the
light, which I pushed the buttonto cross, and feeling like I
was now free, like able to doall these things that I couldn't
(19:55):
do before, because I couldleave the confines of my
neighborhood on a bicycle.
And it's amazing what that doesfor you.
And then I also was thinkingback and I lived in kind of a
blue collar neighborhood.
Remember these kids chasing meon the bike one day and they
couldn't catch me, and Iremember just thinking like I'm
pretty strong on the bike, likeI remember like these kids
(20:17):
couldn't catch me on the bike,and I just remember thinking
about that and ultimately, whathappened then is I got a.
This is when mountain bikesstarted to become popular in the
early 90s like 91, 92.
And I wanted a mountain bike.
So I had this old BMX bike thatI got when I was five and I was
about to turn 13.
I wanted a mountain bike.
So I got a new mountain bikefor my 13th birthday.
(20:39):
A big deal $350,.
I never forget Schwinn and HardRock, I think it was and I
started riding it but thereweren't a ton of trails.
So I started riding it a littlebit like on the road.
But my family friend he rode alot and we knew him from church,
(21:00):
family we knew from church andhe's like, oh, you got a new
bike, why don't you ride down toAnnapolis with me, which was 10
miles away?
And now it's like 10 miles,that's not very long.
But back then that was I waslike that's a long way.
We rode to Annapolis and backone Saturday morning he's like I
do this every Saturday and Iwas like that's neat.
And then he did a race and Iwas like, wow, clint's doing a
(21:20):
race.
I want to do a race.
So I was like, all right, I'mgoing to save up.
So I saved up.
I had a paper route.
I saved up all fall, all winter, all spring, and I bought my
first road bike when I was 14the next year and I went to my
first race.
And that first race I actuallymet my best friend, chris, and
(21:41):
I'll never forget we weresitting there and he was a year
younger than me.
I was like, oh, how often doyou ride your bike?
Like, how often do you train?
And he's like I train every day.
I'm like holy cow, I trainevery day.
I got to ride every day if Iwant to be good.
So I started.
I started riding every day.
The second or third race I did.
(22:02):
I had been training.
I sprinted out of the pack andI pass it everybody and I'm
coming up to the finish line.
I'll never forget that feelingLike I'm going to win this race.
And these are all adults, I'mracing against and I'm I think I
was still 14 at the time Aboutto win the race and my foot came
(22:22):
out of the pedal and I crashedhead first in the pavement.
So, from the what's thecommercial, from the thrill of
victory to the you know, to thepain of defeat is that what it
is, you know.
Speaker 2 (22:34):
I think it's something like that I could have
been on that.
Speaker 1 (22:37):
That's what ABC or you know sports commercial like
coming out of the pack and thenjust like face first into, like
yard sale, into the pavement.
But I was like I was going towin that race and kept racing,
won the state championship thenext year and, you know, started
to have some success and Ialways felt like I was a kid
(22:58):
that didn't really fit in Ben.
So for me I felt like I kind offound my tribe.
I found something that I was, Iwas good at and I was kind of a
nerd.
I played, I played in theorchestra, I played in the
marching band, I sung in thechurch choir, I was on the math
team.
My friends and I juggled likeyou know, this is like Uber nerd
right and let's not pretendlike cycling is the coolest
(23:20):
sport in the world and you're askinny 15 or 16 year old kid
that shaves his legs.
That doesn't really make youmore popular, frankly.
But I felt like I found my spotand that was really.
You know, not only did I findsomething that I was pretty good
at and you know I found my bestfriend in, but you know it also
was, it was, it was an outlet.
You know that really, you know,really gave me something and it
(23:43):
taught me so many things inlife.
But yeah, that was as well as30 years ago.
Speaker 2 (23:48):
That's awesome.
And talk about the rightenvironment to help somebody
succeed, like just one.
You know you having that momentwhere you realized, wow, this
kid trains every day.
Like that realization of like Ilove this, if I want to be good
at this, this is what the goodpeople do, and I need to commit
to that, and I think so manypeople I don't think even get
(24:09):
the opportunity to succeedbecause they aren't in an
environment to see, hey, likethis doesn't have to be your
thing, but like, if you want tobe really good at this, which is
also like there's many perksthat come along and many lessons
to be learned that come alongwith that, this is kind of what
it takes, and so I love that.
You had that environment and man, you literally ran with it.
Like that's an impressive leapto go from Road with it.
(24:30):
But, yeah, road with it.
Right, you really rode awaywith that thing.
Yeah, that you, you know, in avery short period of time,
transitioned that into you knowbeing, you know, the state
champion.
And I'm curious too you knowyou saved all this money to buy
your own bike.
Why was that an important piecefor you, that you were the one
that bought the bike?
Speaker 1 (24:50):
Yeah.
So you know what it'sinteresting I mentioned, my
father passed away when I wasyoung, so I had my mother, my
stepfather, and they werepassively supportive it's
probably the best way I candescribe it so they didn't
really hold me back, but theyalso really didn't push me.
And you know, like mystepfather played football in
high school and college.
(25:10):
He was the captain of hisfootball team.
You know my mother, she was amusic major, so, like you know,
that was her thing.
So for this kid you know this,you know skinny white kid, you
know that went from, you know,five foot nine, 135 pounds to
six feet 135 pounds in a summeras he was starting to race his
bike.
You know, this was a little,you know this was a little out
(25:33):
of the norm, you know foranybody.
But you know, for my parents Idon't really think they knew,
you know what to do and they'relike you're.
I just remember my mom thinkinglike I'd have my training
calendar and she'd be like, whydo you have to ride three hours
today?
It was just, it just didn'tmake sense to her.
So for me being able to, youknow, earn that bike, to go out
(25:54):
and buy that with my own money.
And then you know, ultimately,you know learn how to train and
you know I found a team that Iraced with and developed that.
It wasn't that it was importantto me at the time.
I take pride in it now, but itwas massively important because
(26:14):
I developed these skills andthese habits to be an individual
to you know learn how, to.
You know find information tobecome better, develop
relationships.
I was going out and gettingsponsors at the age of 15 to
help us pay for our expenses.
I was hitchhiking to races.
Essentially, you know hitchingrides from teammates and friends
.
You know sleeping on floors andit's pretty neat to see like
(26:38):
what you're capable of as ayoung individual.
You know in kind of.
You know kind of.
You know a sport that's kind of.
You know misfits, kind of likepunk rock in a way.
Speaker 2 (26:49):
Yeah, I mean I can't help but think about what an
outlier you seem to have been asa kid, like I think it's so
rare for young kids to take thatmuch initiative, and I think
probably something that you I'mguessing do is like you think
about, like, what are the thingsthat I found really valuable
about my own upbringing, my ownlife, and how do I translate
(27:10):
some of those benefits to yourown kids?
So you know, I know we talkedabout some of this might been
environmental, you know thedynamic with your losing your
father, but when you think aboutthat innate initiative, how do
you think about translating thatto your own kids today?
Speaker 1 (27:26):
Yes, excellent question.
It's something I've thoughtabout a lot in multiple aspects.
So, but let's take it from thesporting aspect.
So I've been asked oh, are yourkids going to race Like?
You want your kids to racebicycles First off, cycling is a
really difficult sport.
It's not a lot of fun to trainfor.
It's fun to do, it's fun to goride your bike, you know,
(27:48):
because all of that takes yourEinstein, you got the big smile
on the face riding the bike.
And it's fun to go out in thewoods on your bike.
And it's, it is fun.
But from a sporting perspective, endurance sports in general
aren't that fun to train for.
They're very grueling, you know, going out and riding for two,
three, four, five, six hours.
I train times 30 hours a week.
(28:09):
You know your crotch hurts,your back hurts, your legs hurt,
your neck hurts.
You know you have blisters onyour hands from just from
standing up and moving the bikeunderneath your body.
Like your hands have blisters,like it's a very grueling sport
that really it wears your bodyout, so much that if you look at
(28:30):
the physiologic statistics of acyclist doing the Tour de
France, it mirrors a patientthat's in hospice.
They're literally killingthemselves.
It is a grueling, gruelingsport.
So I was conscious of that.
But I also didn't want to forcemy children so that I could
live vicariously through theirsuccess.
I want them to love the sportof cycling, so I tried to give
(28:51):
my children exposure to a lot ofdifferent sports.
And what's wild is I said thisearlier they both chose the
sport of lacrosse.
So that is their passion, thatis their love, and the saying
that I have for them is ifyou're committed, I'm committed.
So I tell them like I willmirror your commitment level.
So if you want to do this andyou're training every day and
(29:13):
you want to go, you know if youneed to go eight hours to go to
a camp or a tryout for a teamand you've trained for it, I
will take you there.
You know if you need, if weneed to get on a plane to do
that, if you need specificequipment or coaching and you
are putting in your work, you dothat.
Oh, by the way, their job isfirst and foremost to go to
(29:39):
school and go to good grades.
That's their job.
So if they fall behind, iftheir grades are not Bs or above
, then they don't get screens,they don't get to go to practice
that day.
If they don't have theirassignments turned in, they're
not going to go to practicebefore they do their homework.
So like they have to do all thebasics and then they have to
(29:59):
show the commitment at asporting level, and this is a
fine balance too.
Duckworth talks about this inher book Grit.
The children, the individualsthat go on to be successful are
those that have a long-termvision of what they want
themselves to be as an athlete.
But as parents she talks abouthow it still is parents'
responsibility at times whenthese undeveloped, immature
(30:21):
individuals maybe they don'twant to do that.
We have to encourage them andexplain the importance of that.
I'll give you an example.
I'm sitting in, I'm fortunate, Ihave a hot tub, I have a pool,
we have a cold plunge, I have asauna.
So my son did like a littletraining bike race the other
night and I said, hey, I turnedthe hot tub one.
So we're sitting in the hot tubafterwards and kind of relaxing
(30:41):
a little bit and he's like oh,I didn't get a chance to
practice lacrosse today, dad.
And I said, like it's okay, youknow you don't have to practice
every day at your age.
I said but you should try toget 1% better.
And he's like, well, what doesthat mean?
And I explained it to him and Iwas like, well, if you get 1%
better every day, how muchbetter are you in a year?
And he said 365%.
(31:02):
I said that's a great answer,but that's not the right answer.
And I explained to him thecompounding effect and how that
riding his bike and developingendurance translates into
success on the lacrosse field.
To try to imprint the fact thatwhat his mindset every day
should be just a smallimprovement and it doesn't have.
(31:26):
It could be a mentalimprovement, it could be a
physical improvement.
It could be, you know, askill-based improvement.
You know it could.
It could be a socialimprovement, right, and you know
that's what I want.
I want my children to becritical thinkers and I want
them to just get up and use themost out of the time that they
have every day in Pursuit ofwhat their passion is all.
And look, if they decidetomorrow that they never want to
(31:47):
play the cross again, that'sokay.
Speaker 2 (31:50):
Yeah, chris, I love that framework of if you're
committed, I'm committed and I'mgonna mirror your level of
commitment.
That is.
That is amazing, because Ithink you see what happens
sometimes when that is out ofbalance, right, when the parent
is like very committed, and itsometimes can squash a little
bit of that intrinsic motivation, but it's like hey, I'm gonna,
I'm gonna mirror where you're at.
And I think you also hit on areally key part.
(32:11):
That man, I wish that I hadwonderful coaches growing up.
My dad was one of my coachesfor my entire life.
He was always literally in mycorner when I was wrestling and
I had that confidence of knowing, wow, yeah, he was there.
But the thing I wish I alwayshad more of as a kid is someone
to really paint that vision ofthe importance of Just, hey,
(32:32):
let's just bask in dreamingabout this for a little bit,
like I don't want to, you don't,you do not have to do this, but
like let's just dream aboutwhat this could feel like, be
like mean, like for you, and Ithink that that helps kind of
like pull people up a little bitmore to where it's like okay, I
want this, I'm in it, and it'slike great, I'm committed,
you're committed, I will mirroryou.
I'm here to support you.
(32:52):
Yeah, that's that's.
That's such a great way tothink about it, and I love the
way that you are literallyliving this out.
You talked about traveling foryour son's Practice to tell me
about what that, what that lookslike for you, I'll kind of use
another anecdote.
Speaker 1 (33:06):
So my son, same one, and they both.
You know I have my older son,so a lot of this stuff.
You know we have these, theseconversations at a little higher
level and my younger son isstarting to kind of have these
as well and we talk a lot abouthe.
Actually, my younger son ismore Interested in the business
side of things with me, eventhough we do basically the same
stuff on the sporting side.
But it's neat to have, you know, these conversations around
(33:28):
both athletics as well asbusiness and kind of relate
different stories.
But my older son, he said youknow, dad, it seems like you're
not as interested in cycling asmuch as you used to be and
you're more interested inlacrosse.
And I said, well, what makesyou say that?
And he said, well, you, youknow, you go to like lacrosse
games and you know we go, weeven go watch like professional
(33:49):
lacrosse games together.
And so why is that he goes?
That's what we do.
And I said, yeah, I said I canonly be in one place at a time,
you know.
But you know I do, I take mybike, like.
So we drove up to Maryland fromNorth Carolina was eight-hour
drive Actually it was more thanthat, it was nine or ten because
we're in northern Maryland, upnear Delaware, up near a Philly
Wilmington area and there's along drive and I took my bike up
(34:12):
with me.
So I rode when he was, you know, at practice and did that.
It's important to kind of kindof fit that stuff in, but it's,
you know, we have, we havelimited time.
His parents, right, we havelimited time, we have a window
and Jim Shields talks about like18 summers family boardroom.
It's a great, great book, greatresource.
(34:35):
If you're listening, youhaven't, haven't read it or seen
that yet.
The family boardroom I'm sorry,the family board meeting, yeah,
but I use that time with mysons to, you know, talk to them
to have those experiences.
So you know, there's somereally, really cool things that
we get to do and I've modeled,I've Intentionally built our
(34:57):
business in ways so that I havethat flexibility to do that.
But the thing is I still do, Istill am active and the boys
understand that there are timeswhen I'm gonna go do something
for me or dad or with my wife,like is, you know, we're gonna
go do some stuff and that theworld doesn't revolve around
them.
Like we say in our house.
(35:17):
We say team Larson, we are ateam, we're a family unit and
that means that we're part ofthe family first.
Then we're individuals belowthat.
So if the family is gonna dosomething, you know as a family,
if somebody's you knowcompeting or doing something,
we're gonna support thatindividual.
You know it's not always allabout, you know, the individual,
(35:38):
mm-hmm.
Speaker 2 (35:39):
I love that.
I mean, I just hear so manyways that Athletics has
influenced a lot of the waysthat you're showing up, and I
think you hit on it withbringing your bike and making
sure you're getting that time infor yourself.
It's that.
That's an important part of it.
You know there's there'scertainly sacrifices we have to
make as parents.
That's that's understood.
But I don't think that we doour kids a service to sacrifice
(36:01):
All of ourselves and what makesus whole and what makes us
better For the sake of thatright, we have to take that time
and and I think that that comesto one of our Pillars here at
the athlete dad is modelingambition and how important that
is.
Yeah, Tell me more about howhas being an athlete shaped the
way that you show up as dad?
Speaker 1 (36:24):
I think it really because of when I started racing
, you know, when I was literallykind of forming my framework
and then literally becoming anadult, it it has woven itself
not only into my psyche but also, you know, the the literal
being that I am and I spent 18years in the medical device
space.
I was in sales, I was in ORs, Icovered cases, I was on call
(36:46):
and as a hiring manager and itwas.
I had a training site.
The company I worked with and Iwas a hiring manager built
sales teams.
I always loved the higherathletes, because what does
athletics do?
It teaches you one you have toplan, you have to discipline,
you have to have, you know,structure in your life.
Oh, a great one.
(37:07):
I love delayed gratification.
Right, it's not all me, me, me,now, now, now it's like I'm
gonna, I am going to sacrificethis today for this in the
future and you mentioned itearlier been like painting that
vision.
You know.
So my, my sons and I talk aboutlike, oh, they want to play D1
lacrosse in college, awesome.
I love to hear him think aboutthat, because if you're 11 and
(37:28):
13, you're talking about whatyou need to do.
You know, five to ten years out.
Well, that cascades all the wayback through and it creates
these building blocks ofacademic, academics and, you
know, physical training andathletic training and teamwork,
and I have to, you know, learnhow to write and express myself
(37:49):
and, oh, maybe, put togetherhighlight reels and, you know,
promote and communicate.
It's like so many differentthings that fall into that stuff
.
So all of these things kind ofcascade down and are very
relatable and those thingstranslate into the professional
space, right, because, okay, wehave to train, we have to gather
this information and knowledgeand go to school, you know, to
(38:12):
do this and be these people.
I want to own a business.
I have to build a team, I haveto be a good team leader, I have
to model, you know what I wantmy team to be like, but I also
have to support those in my team.
I have to bring people into myteam that are better than me at
different things.
Maybe they're better suited,you know, physically, maybe
(38:32):
they're better suited mentally,maybe they're better suited, you
know, from an, from aneducation perspective.
All of these things, you know,matter, matter so much.
And then you know I was talkingto my older son, were having a
conversation, I just did a 72mile gravel Bike race this past
weekend, so it took me almostsix hours.
(38:55):
I mean is really hard for mebecause I don't I don't often
train more than an hour and ahalf or two hours, so there's a
long event.
So I had to kind of prepare andtrain and dial in my diet and I
lost, you know, I lost likeseven pounds, which for me is a
fair amount of weight.
You know, kind of feel good andand I had I had like the best,
you know, the best Performancethat I had this year.
So I was proud of that and myson was asked he's like, why do
(39:18):
you?
He's like, why do you like, whydo you still do these events?
Like you're not gonna win?
Like why do you still do them?
Said, it's for motivation.
Right, it's for motivation, andthat's what's great about
sports.
When you have a tournament, whenyou have an event coming up,
you're if, let's say, you go tothe gym, you go to the gym for
an hour a day and you havenothing that you're training for
(39:42):
aside from being healthier.
So I lay down on the bench to dosome bench press and I'm like,
okay, I'm gonna do 10 reps atthis weight.
Well, okay, maybe I'll justgive up at eight reps, like, if
I'm not pushing for something,if I'm on my bike and I'm, I'm
doing hill repeats right, likeintervals for people that know
(40:05):
what that is and I'm gonna gohard for three, four or five
minutes.
How hard am I going to go?
Well, if I have an event comingup and I know that maybe I'm
going to skip the beer, maybeI'm going to skip the pizza,
maybe I'm going to have thesalad, maybe I'm going to have
the protein shake, maybe I'mgoing to ride a little harder,
those events, that motivatingfactor, whatever it is in your
(40:26):
life that you're competing forathletics, business, personally,
academically it will make youbetter, it will make you sharper
, it will make you be morefocused.
Look, life is an energy game.
Use your energy, focus thatenergy.
We all have the same number ofhours and days and time from day
(40:50):
to day.
You have to find things thatwill focus your energy and your
effort.
That's ultimately going to makeyou better.
Hack that system and make itwork for you.
I think it's important that werelate that to our children as
well.
Speaker 2 (41:03):
Yeah, I really feel that.
I mean, that was something thatI think was a big part of why I
felt the need to continuepursuing athletic endeavors
myself.
I'm not going to put up anyrecords, I'm not going to be the
fastest to climb X or the firstto climb whatever, but it was
still such an important part ofmy life and how I felt I needed
(41:26):
to show up as a dad, as a human.
I think the goal piece is man.
If I ever, I try not to giveany unsolicited advice.
I try to ask more questionsthan I speak.
The one piece of advice that Iam always unabashedly giving is
you've got to have a goal.
You've got to have somethingyou're working towards because,
(41:47):
to your point, it has thisamazing ability to elevate your
abilities in all aspects of yourlife.
It has the ability to unifyeverything in my life and make
my priorities crystal clear.
I named this event coming up, soI know, working backwards, like
my diet's going to be dialed,which means that my time has to
(42:09):
be dialed because I have to planfor all these things.
That means that my sleep hasgot to be dialed.
That means that when I'm withthe family, I am very deliberate
about being present, becausethis is a finite amount of time.
Based on the other timecommitments that I've got, I
just feel like I show up so muchbetter in all these aspects.
Then, too, there's long trainingdays that I feel you as an
endurance athlete.
There's some six, seven hourdays in the mountains.
(42:31):
I'm like, oh man.
But I'm like, well, is it goingto be easier in Alaska?
No, dude, it's going to be wayharder, way longer, way colder.
It's like, dude, I got to getmy butt moving, whereas if I'm
just out there which is okay,it's okay to just go out and
enjoy it sometimes, but it'slike if I'm training for it,
it's going to be at a differentlevel of intentionality.
So, yeah, I really feel thatimportance of the goals setting
(42:55):
there.
Love that.
Speaker 1 (42:57):
Yeah, that's what it's all about.
It's like, hey, if you canbusiness, family health,
whatever it may be in your life,you should have a goal like the
one thing, right, bill Keller,is it Bill Keller, the one thing
?
I'm not sure he talks aboutKeller Williams.
He founded Keller Williams andhe says what's the one thing in
(43:18):
your life that you can do?
That will make everything elseeasier.
And I think when you have agoal, it should make, like you
just said, it should cascadedown.
It should be that filter thatyou look through and says, okay,
my training is going to beeasier, my diet is going to be
easier, everything is going tobe easier because I'm looking
through this lens, I'm workingtowards this, and that can be
(43:39):
applied to any area of your life.
I think it's such an importantvision and again, it's more a
goal of vision, long-term vision.
Again, going back to the grid,she said it's that vision that's
what determined those thatbecame successful professionally
from those that did not.
It was the vision that they sawand felt in themselves that
(44:00):
brought them to that point inthe future.
Speaker 2 (44:02):
Yeah, the intentionality piece.
Earlier you hit on this ideathat, and it's so true, and I
think parents, the older ourkids get, the more we feel it of
how finite that time is, howquickly that time goes Really,
by the time they're 10 or 11,they're now out in their events
and with their friends andthere's just less and less time
we get with them in thosemoments.
And so I think that that putsthis healthy paranoia in me of I
(44:28):
have got to be present and Ithink having a goal facilitates
your ability to be present, tobe intentional, because I think
the biggest thing that we wouldregret as a parent is looking
back and being like man I reallymissed a lot because I was not
as intentional as I needed to bein those moments.
Speaker 1 (44:49):
Agreed and look, you brought up kind of the
double-edged sword of thesethings and the reason I quit
competing.
And this was like eight,actually 10 years ago really.
The last year I really competedat a high level was 10 years
ago in the cycling space, andthen I did some events for a
couple years, but what happenedwas I realized I wasn't being
(45:12):
present for the number one thingin my life, which was my family
.
I would be thinking I'm at thissoccer game, but I should be
riding my bike right now, foranother hour.
Or yeah, I want to go out todinner with the family but I
don't want to eat what they'reeating because it's going to
affect my weight.
And it really just started toeat at me internally and I was
(45:34):
like, okay, I need to have adifferent vision for what
athletics and competition looklike for me.
And actually it's interesting.
I just got asked by one of mymasterminds or one of the
masterminds I'm a part of to doa triathlon next year and he's
like, come on, man, he's likeyou could probably do it without
(45:55):
training.
I was like I could.
The problem is I know, ben, thatI am not capable of doing that
event and not having this shiftmentally.
I'm like, okay, I'm going to goswim, I got to run, I got to
ride, I got to do this.
I'm going to go buy.
I got to buy a new bike and Igot to train this much.
I'm going to do more swimming.
So that's right, I'm going tohave to swim in the mornings,
(46:15):
which means I'm going to miss mykids in the morning.
So all of a sudden, this onething that's really not that
consequential.
It would be neat to do, butreally not that impactful for me
.
It's not really going to changewho I am in any real way, shape
or form.
It's really going to detractfrom the other things that I
have in my life and I thinkthat's part as we become parents
(46:36):
.
So from an athlete to a dad, toan athlete dad, you have to say
, okay, how do I incorporatethese?
So it's healthy from all levels.
And that doesn't mean you can'tdo that.
If you're listening and it'sreally important to you to
compete in an event, I think itis 100% healthy and okay to set
that up, okay to set aside timefor that, and away from your
(46:59):
family, because it's importantto be able to explain to your
children I am going to go dothis because this is something
that's important to me and thenletting them see that when we
were on our family road trip, mywife and I went to CrossFit and
the boys came and next thingyou know they're doing the
workouts with us because theysee it and they're like, oh,
this is like, this is like whatyou do and they want to be a
(47:22):
part of that.
So when you do that, you modelthat behavior.
It spills over.
You just have to be veryconscious of how it's going to
affect the other areas of yourlife as a parent, in my opinion.
Speaker 2 (47:35):
Agreed and I think that you I always say that your
ability to balance family andyour pursuits is sort of the
litmus test of the health ofyour ambitions.
Are these rooted in somethingthat's really healthy or is this
rooted in something that is not?
And I think that when it'srooted in principles and it's
coming from a healthy place,it's a bummer to miss those
(47:59):
things, but it almost becomes avery easy decision because your
priorities are clear, yourvalues are clear and we can
filter them through those things.
And I mean, when we think aboutthese three aspects of how
we've kind of built the athletedad of modeling ambition,
balancing family and integratingfamily, none of them are easy
and they all blend into eachother.
Right, like to be ambitious, wehave to make sacrifices of time.
(48:22):
So then we had how do we strikea balance?
And then, okay, well, I don'twant to just be pursuing these
things in the absence of myfamily.
I would love to integrate myfamily in them as much as
possible.
So how do I weave them in in athoughtful way?
That still helps me?
And it's, I think, this kind ofconstant quest to like.
I don't think we ever nail it,but I think it's the quest of
(48:43):
pursuing balance and ambitionand all these things that like,
we find a lot of fulfillment andwe show up as our best selves.
Speaker 1 (48:51):
That's a great point.
And, you know, maybe evenbalance is kind of a misnomer
right, because you know it's.
It's like homeostasis in ourbodies.
Our bodies are trying toconstantly achieve homeostasis
and keep things in quote unquotebalanced, but in reality it's
never in balance.
We're always kind of a littlebit off.
And that's what resiliency is,which is the ability to get off
(49:13):
balance, kind of going fullcircle, as we talked about, you
know, getting our kids out inthe wilderness.
You get off, you know, offkilter a little bit.
How far off kilter can you getand still get back to that point
that's healthy and that'swhat's.
I think that's what resiliencyis and you know it's.
It's like, hey, I'm going to godo this for a while.
Can you go spend three weeks onthe Grand Canyon and come back
(49:37):
and still have a healthybusiness, a healthy family,
healthy relationships?
You know, can you do that?
Like that's resiliency andthat's that's.
You know that's not reallybalanced, but that is what
balance is right.
It's the ability to have theresiliency in those areas of
your life to go and get offbalance and come back and be
back in balance.
Speaker 2 (49:58):
I've never thought of it that way, of the resiliency
and the ability Like that.
That's what allows you to go outof balance and bring it back.
That's a really great way tothink about it, and I think that
you I agree on the what balanceis, and balance is different
for everybody but I agree thatit's not Okay five minutes of
this and then five minutes ofthat, and then five.
It's this oscillation betweenthings and, to your point,
(50:20):
coming back and thencompensating in certain areas to
make up for the fact that wehaven't done this.
And I think I've learned thisfrom our mutual friend, john
Roman, of this idea of, okay, ifI'm going to go to this event,
then to make sure that I'mstriking a balance, I need to
invest in my family before theevent and I need to make sure
(50:41):
I'm intentional about investingin my family after the event, so
that I'm investing, I filledour cups, I go to the event and
then I catch up afterwards sothat, yes, I'm not like at the
event, like with my family onthe phone, but it's like I'm
balancing those things in asbest a way I can.
Speaker 1 (50:59):
Yeah, that's a great point.
And then also beingconscientious of the fact that
if, like me, you can't do that,at some point you have to say,
okay, I need to make someadjustments.
So for me, I'm not going.
I'm not going to really like,I'll do some events, but I'm
really not going to race twiceanymore.
(51:19):
And people ask me like, do youmiss it?
I really don't, because I got alot out of the sport and I miss
the competition because I loveto compete, but I also don't
love who it made me at that time, and that person that I was
wasn't really congruent with thebest father that I could be.
(51:40):
I could be a good spouse, Icould be a good business person,
but I couldn't do those and bea good father and compete at the
highest level, just for who Iam.
And maybe that's not a goodthing.
But I think being able to lookin the mirror and acknowledge
that and then kind of say, okay,well, I'm going to kind of
moderate this to a degree, is,you know, that's what we just
(52:02):
have to be cognizant of.
Speaker 2 (52:04):
This.
I see this theme of this veryacute self-awareness that is so
common in so many of theseathlete dads that I speak with,
and I wonder how much of thatcomes from a kind of a benefit
of competing as an athlete at ahigh level, because when you are
, you are very in tune withevery aspect of your body, your
physical, like every part ofyour body, every part of your
(52:27):
mind, and you are justconstantly looking at this
feedback, and I can't help butwonder if that is a benefit that
we bring to how we show up inour life as dad, as spouse.
Is that, like, we're lookingfor that feedback?
We're constantly in tune withthings and we are, most
importantly then, able to knowhow to pivot to accommodate the
new environment we've foundourselves in.
Speaker 1 (52:49):
Oh, I think it's.
I think it's for anybody thatis successful at a high level.
You know self-awareness, youknow it's a huge thing.
Look, if you're a narcissistand you're not self-aware and
you can't kind of reallyunderstand anything outside of
you know your ownself-importance, then that's
going to hold you back and atsome point it's going to lead to
(53:11):
destruction in some area ofyour life.
Now, as an athlete, you couldprobably get away with that for
a longer period of time, likeit's kind of a you know, a lack
of self-awareness.
But you know you have tounderstand as an athlete.
Okay, what am I consuming, whatam I doing, how am I feeling.
So you're constantly looking inthe mirror and evaluating.
I had a food journal and atraining journal and you're
(53:33):
always looking at that stuff.
But then you also have to lookat your competition and say
where do I fit inside of thecompetition?
And you know, if you're on afootball field and you're built
like me and you're like, oh, inmy head I'm 350 pounds and I'm
just a monster and I run intosomebody that's actually 350
pounds, I'm probably going tobreak my body If I'm again like
(53:55):
me and I'm on a bicycle and Idon't have the physiologic stats
of the best guys out that I'mracing against.
I have to be aware of that, Ihave to train for that, and then
I have to develop the skill setand the awareness in the race.
So I have to take advantage ofthe situation in a different way
.
You know it's like, you know,looking at a chessboard and
(54:18):
taking advantage of a player.
You know that maybe is a littletoo self-confident and doing
that sort of thing.
So, yeah, I think that the bestathletes at the highest levels
develop that self-awareness andyou know that's certainly, again
, that's going to be a benefitthat crosses over to so many
areas of your life.
Yeah, I love that.
Speaker 2 (54:38):
All this sounds great of go pursue your goals, spend
all this time with your kids,you know, be present, all that.
But there's this constraintthat exists within it and that's
like, well, I have to work,I've got to go make money so
that I can buy the road bike, soI can take my kids to these
things, so I can do all thesethings right.
And you have been verydeliberate about building your
life and the work that you'vedone so that you have the
(54:58):
ability, both from a timeperspective, financially all
these other aspects to be ableto be present, to show up as the
best dad, as the best athlete,the best spouse.
Tell me a bit about how you'vedone that and why you think that
that mindset of deliberatelydesigning your job, your
finances, that way, are soimportant for dads, for men,
(55:19):
today.
Speaker 1 (55:21):
Yeah, look, our business Next Level Income is.
The mission is to helpindividuals achieve financial
independence through education.
So we have a podcast, we have ablog, we've got a free book
that you can get on our website,nextlevelincomecom if you want
to check that out but alsoinvestments, investment
opportunities.
So we try to help individualsachieve financial independence.
(55:42):
Now, the way I got to thismission and the way I developed
it in my own life then wasprobably a little unfortunate.
Like I lost my father at ayoung age.
I think I had a very strongawareness of the finitude right
the fact that time is finite.
But then my best friend that Imentioned earlier, chris, my
training partner that said, hey,you got to train every day.
He died in between my freshmanand sophomore year in college
(56:07):
and, after racing for anotheryear, actually quit.
After that my team went pro, Idid and I quit and I was like
well, I don't want to haveregrets Like I want to be
intentional about the way I livemy life.
I don't want to pass upopportunities that are out there
, but you have to have money todo that.
So when I was 21 years old, Iset out on this pursuit of
(56:30):
financial independence andfiguring out how to achieve that
, which is why we built ourbusiness around that and why I
have the lifestyle I do today.
So if you're listening and youhave your own business or you're
a high income, high stressprofessional like I was I was on
call for 12 years of my careerthen you have to create a
(56:52):
pathway for yourself to havemore freedom as a parent, as a
father.
A great book is Die With Zero.
That's out there.
It talks about how you can kindof have your cake and eat it
too.
It's what we do with ourcoaching program, so we help
people make more money, keepmore of their money, through tax
and legal strategies and alsohow to grow your money through
investments.
(57:12):
Everything that we've talkedabout today is my why.
My family is my, why my timewith my children is my, why my
ability to go out and make animpact in the community is my,
why the how are basically realestate investments that generate
the passive income to do thosethings.
And again, if you want to learnmore about it, you can check us
out at nextlevelincomecom.
If you're listening today, youcan get a free copy of our book
(57:33):
there as well.
Awesome.
Speaker 2 (57:36):
I love that.
I wish we could.
I hope it deserves its ownentire episode of how do we help
people become more financiallyfree so that they can pursue
those whys.
But, Chris man, I reallyappreciate the time that it has
flown by for me and I think we.
Speaker 1 (57:49):
I know I'm like wow, it's already.
Yeah, we've been going an hour,it's been crazy.
Speaker 2 (57:53):
We hit on so many topics and I feel just an
amazing sense of gratitudebecause I feel like I have taken
off a lot of really high valuethings for myself and so just
want to express my gratitude toyou, and I will definitely share
all the many resources wetalked about on the show notes,
but I am so excited to continuefollowing along on your journey.
Keep the conversation going.
I just want to say thank you somuch again for your time.
Speaker 1 (58:16):
Ben, thank you, it's been a blast.
I love what you're doing, Ilove the concept, as I told you
when we first connected, and ifyou're listening today, thank
you for spending the time hereon the TopGest today.
Speaker 2 (58:33):
This has been an episode of the Athlete Dad
Podcast.
As always, we'd really loveyour support in helping to get
this podcast out into the world.
You can do that by sharing itwith somebody you care about,
who you think would reallyappreciate the content of what
we talk about.
You can also like and review onall podcast platforms.
So go give us some love.
It's much appreciated and itcertainly helps us out keeping
(58:55):
the show going.
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