Imagine straddling the line between the ferocious power of the ocean's biggest waves and the gentle, yet perpetual, tug of fatherhood. This episode takes you on an epic journey with Andrew Cotton, a titan of big wave surfing, as he shares the deeply personal narrative of his life's adventures and tribulations. From his humble beginnings in North Devon to the breath-taking swells of Nazaré, we traverse Cotty's path to a professional surfing career, his friendship and collaboration with surfing legend Garrett McNamara, and the indelible mark of fatherhood that propels his every move.
This compelling conversation reveals the intricacies of balancing a life chasing thrills with the grounding force of family. We peel back the layers of Andrew's career highs and lows, including his daunting recovery from a devastating back injury and the emotional resilience required to navigate personal hardships like divorce. Listen as Cotty offers a masterclass in adaptability and determination, discussing the pressures of aligning family moments with the capricious nature of professional surfing and how these challenges are emblematic of a universal struggle faced by many.
As we wrap up, Andrew Cotton's insights transform this discussion into a profound reflection on humility, the psychological hurdles of an athlete's journey, and the fine line between pushing one's children in sports and letting them find their own way. It's a story that transcends surfing, touching on the heart of what it means to relentlessly pursue one's passions while maintaining the delicate balance that family life demands. Tune in for an episode that promises to stir the soul and inspire the brave pursuit of dreams amidst life's ebb and flow.
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Speaker 1 (00:01):
Nazarene 2017, and it was one of the biggest swells
of the year and, well, actuallyone of the biggest swells you've
had in a long time.
It was one of those likeall-or-nothing sort of days for
me, and I put it on the line,committed quite heavily to a
wave and the way I read the wavewas just wrong, paid the price
(00:23):
for that, you know, and I fell.
The wave hit me so hard it sortof basically just crushed me,
and then you have to go throughthe whole whole situation,
dealing with, like other wavesand jet ski rides, and I was
fortunate to get to the beach.
I basically just told the boysthat I'm pretty sure I broke my
back and, for the life of me, Icouldn't even put a foot on the
(00:47):
floor.
Shit, this is pretty fuckingserious.
Speaker 2 (00:56):
Welcome to the Athlete Dad Podcast, where we
explore the intersection ofphysical pursuits and fatherhood
, of physical pursuits andfatherhood.
I'm your host, ben Gibson, andeach episode we'll dive deep
into topics like modeling,ambition, achieving balance and
intentional integration aroundathletic passions and parenting.
If you're seeking to accomplishyour goals as an athlete while
(01:18):
crushing it as a parent, thenyou've come to the right place.
Come to the right place.
What's up everyone?
We are back with an excitingconversation with Mr Andrew
Cotton, known by most simply asCotty.
Cotty is a professional bigwave surfer.
He is also the co-star of HBO'sseries 100 Foot Wave.
(01:40):
If that sounds familiar, you mayremember Garrett McNamara
joining us on the podcast onepisode nine.
We had the pleasure of meetingAndrew through Garrett and I can
remember watching 100 Foot Waveand seeing Andrew and just
really falling in love with hisstory.
Andrew's story is one aboutdreaming, about self-belief,
about perseverance, even in theface of some seemingly
(02:04):
insurmountable challenges.
I mean even just growing up.
Where he grew up in North Devonin the UK, he did not have a
straight path to the life of apro surfer and yet once he got
on a board as a kid, heimmediately knew that, no matter
what it would take.
He was going to find a way tosurf as his career and find a
way he did, and in ourconversation you'll hear all
(02:27):
about Andrew's rise through thesurf scene, bouncing between
jobs like being a plumber, untilwhat most would deem the end of
their careers, when Cotty wasable to link up with Garrett
McNamara to surf some of thebiggest waves on earth at Nazare
, portugal.
How do you balance being afather when you have an
unpredictable travel scheduletaking you all over the world
(02:49):
with two kids at home and youwant to be an amazing father but
also continue to pursue yourdreams as a professional surfer?
It's pretty tough, and so wetalk about how Andrew thinks
about balancing fatherhood withthat often unpredictable travel
schedule and this idea aboutinvesting in your kids when you
are home to try to offset whenyou're away.
(03:09):
He also talks about thechallenges of co-parenting after
a divorce and how to turn anegative situation like a
divorce into something verypositive.
There's this great themeamongst the surfers we've had on
the show, and that's thatthey've all been extremely
intentional about designing thelife that they wanted for
themselves and for theirfamilies, and they worked for
(03:30):
decades to overcome hugeobstacles to realize those
dreams, and I think that thereare not just so many lessons in
this conversation around balanceand lifestyle design and
pursuing your dreams, but reallythe challenges that need to be
overcome to manifest that foryourself.
So, without further ado, pleaseenjoy my conversation with Mr
(03:55):
Andrew Cotton.
Andrew, thanks so much fortaking time out of your travels,
out of your week, to have thisconversation around athlete dad
life, so I really appreciate youbeing here.
Speaker 1 (04:09):
Thanks for having me and giving me the opportunity to
chat.
Speaker 2 (04:12):
I know we met through our friend Garrett and you know
I know many folks are familiarwith your story, a bit from 100
for a Wave.
But you know, help usunderstand a bit more about what
does life look like for you asdad?
And then what does life looklike for you as athlete in the
really the two different worldsthat you're navigating right now
.
Speaker 1 (04:31):
I got divorced in like 2019.
So my life changed verydifferently then, whereas I felt
like I was spending a lot moretime at home when I was married,
and now, like with obviouslyseparation and then in COVID, I
started spending definitely alot more time abroad.
(04:51):
I've got two children.
I've got a honey, who's 16.
She's my stepdaughter.
You know been her dad since shewas three.
And then I have Ace.
You know being her dad since Iwas.
She was three, and then I haveAce, who's 11.
As I am, yeah, moving to my 40s, trying to like really make the
most of my career, you know,always focusing on riding the
(05:13):
biggest waves, um, in the bestlocations, and focusing on my
performance as an athlete.
I've had some pretty badinjuries over the years, as, as
any professional athlete um hasor, you know, gets, and it's
just trying to like manage thoseand and still compete with the
youngsters really yeah, theyseem to be just getting younger
(05:33):
and younger and doing more crazystuff.
Speaker 2 (05:36):
I mean, even just in the time you've been at nazare,
it went from just like can wecatch these waves and ride them?
To then guys like kai doingaerials off of these waves.
It's quite a dramatic shift yes, it's the.
Speaker 1 (05:50):
The landscape is moving very quickly and I feel
like, especially like the bigwave scene, that these other
sort of um sports and kitesports and wind sports and
windsurfing is all having like,uh, influence on actual surfing
itself, which is, I feel it'staking that performance level to
the next level.
You know, whereas for me, likeI've always been a surfer and
(06:13):
focused on surfing and, and thenbig wave was just like an
opportunity that came my way, um, which something was like
really enjoying and I lovepushing and but it's great to
see, you know, like in aprofessional career, that we
thought that we'd stop windingit down like in our 30s.
I didn't sign a.
My first contract was when Iwas like 34, 35, so it's kind of
(06:34):
like late into the game, um, soI just feel it's like an
opportunity and I'm like I'mlike like every, yeah, every
moment of the minute it's likewell, how can I, how can I get
better?
How can I get fitter?
How can it's like well, how canI get better?
How can I get fitter?
How can I work my injuries?
How can I outperform these guys, these younger kids that are
(06:54):
coming through and still keeppushing it?
Speaker 2 (06:58):
Yeah, that's interesting.
The evolution of the sportreally requires an evolution in
how you, as an athlete, approacheven just competing in it.
You know how do you bring indifferent dynamics from
different disciplines and applyit in the same way, and I think
it's it's also for me as a I'm35, it's reassuring to hear that
(07:19):
you know you didn't get yourfirst contract till you were 34
and that there's still a lot, of, a lot of work to be done as an
athlete.
Uh, well, into our 40s.
Because I I do agree.
Like you know, when you're 20syou're like, yeah, I'll wrap
this up by 35 and that's prettymuch it.
I'll be in, you know, I'll bein a wheelchair by 40, and you
know it's, it's it's reassuringto hear, for sure and hanging
(07:39):
out, but I just sometimes likeI'm getting these opportunities
now.
Speaker 1 (07:43):
So I'm thinking like no way, like if I had this in my
20s or when I was like I leftschool at like 16 and the dream
was always to be a professionalsurfer, but I just never.
Like I never really came my way, which was never a problem.
Like I worked and did variousjobs in the surf industry and
but like I'm always thinkingshit, if I really knew what I
(08:04):
know now, like how it could havebeen different.
But things all happen for areason and, um, you know, I feel
like I'm like really really ina good place.
I'm really really fortunatethat's awesome, man.
Speaker 2 (08:15):
You know I want to talk about you pursuing your
dreams.
You pursuing your goal as aprofessional surfer.
Um, you know, I know it hasn'talways been easy and it's been a
very long journey and there's alot of ups and downs, as you
mentioned, injuries andobviously with competition, and
you're relying on a sport thatis dependent upon nature
providing the right conditions,and you have to travel all over
(08:38):
the world.
You know there's a lot thatgoes into pursuing your dreams,
but, you know, one of the thingsI really believe in is that,
like one there's it's importantto do so because of that
personal fulfillment aspect ofit, and like that's what we're
here to do in life is to pursuethe things that light us up,
that that we're passionate about.
But then you start shifting tobeing a dad.
(09:00):
Being a dad and I think there'sthis whole other side of that
pursuing ambition, modelingambition piece that almost
becomes like a responsibility asa dad to show our kids how they
should go about navigating theworld, like what is?
pursuing your goals meant foryou now as a dad, as you think
about showing your kids that oflike, go pursue your dreams, go
(09:22):
do these things like that, doyou feel like it has a bit more
meaning to it for you now?
Speaker 1 (09:27):
it's.
That's you know.
It's really funny, I think, ifyou, depending on who you speak
to, you always get differentopinions on on this and I and I
do struggle navigating it.
I feel like in the beginning,having um, honey and ace, it was
like okay, right now, now Ihave to make this a career,
otherwise it just has to be ahobby.
So it's almost like themotivation it was like.
(09:50):
I can actually remember likeace came along and it was like,
okay, like I've really got tosort it out, I've really got to
make this, monetize this, andlike this either has to be a job
or it has to be okay, like I doit, maybe every now and then at
a weekend.
So it really helped meprofessionalize my goals, I
(10:12):
suppose, and professionalizewhat I was doing and motivate me
as well.
I was like, yeah, I just wantedto achieve something to prove
that I could do it, and I thinkthat was a real motivation for
me.
I had a big injury in 2017.
I was doing a lot of traveling,but only in Europe.
Through those younger yearswhen I had ACE, I was almost
(10:33):
like in 2017, after my my, Ibroke my back and I was kind of
like on the edge of like hangingup, like, okay, right, yeah, I
kind of done, I'm happy to stayat home.
And then my, my, my marriagesort of fell apart and and it
actually released a new set ofambitions for me.
Really, like I was strugglingwith it.
(10:54):
Okay, I'm 40 now, I'm a singleand I was looking around at
where I live at home and I waslike I just I don't want to be
here.
You know, like I don't want tobe living in in this village and
in devon, and it just sort ofmotivated me to get fit, uh, get
stronger, set new goals, youknow, look for new partners and
(11:14):
brands to work with, and yeah,and just go after it even harder
.
Um, and and all of that sort ofwas happening, just as the time
that the HBO stuff was sort ofcoming out, which really gave me
an extra push with exposurewise as well, and it is also
motivational like having a filmcrew there filming what you're
(11:36):
doing and where you're going,and you know the sessions that
you're doing, and so it all sortof really, you know, you know,
came together, which is kind ofa surprise.
You know, like I didn't, Ididn't really think that I'll be
going as hard.
You know this, this furtherinto my you know, like into my
40s, I don't think I'll bepushing it as hard, but but yeah
(11:57):
, it's exciting, it's beenexciting yeah, I mean kudos to
you for taking a situation thatwas difficult and a down moment
and really turning it into apositive Like.
Speaker 2 (12:07):
I think in a lot of those ways that's where I think
athletics and physical pursuitsare so important, because it can
one give you something toanchor on of like, okay, I've
got, you know, I've got thisgoal that is well within my
control as much as anything canbe right, but that I can put
energy and and focus into.
That's going to have a reallypositive outcome.
And yeah, and it's it's.
(12:29):
It's cool to hear that you knowreally unleashed new motivation
, new goals for you to get backand grind and and make the most
of it.
Speaker 1 (12:38):
Yeah, because, like you know, having having like a
young family definitely changedmy direction a little bit.
You make decisions and youthink, could it have all been
different?
In fact, it was like, no,everything's just right, this is
all perfect, and having Ace andHoney were the main motivations
(12:59):
to make everything moreprofessional.
And just because I'm not withmy mom anymore, like it doesn't
make any difference.
You know, like I can still be agreat dad, but I can actually
show them that, that you knowthat when they're teenagers, you
know like they can say, yeah,their dads, their stats, they're
still going hard in the ocean,you know, and I was still still
(13:19):
trying to pretend he's 21, butyeah that's awesome.
Speaker 2 (13:23):
Yeah, hey, I mean that's that's the way to live,
right?
Is uh is showing them that,like, dude, I'm going to run
this thing until the wheels comeoff, like I'm going to do
everything I can and, and youknow you're setting yourself up
for whatever that that nextphase of life looks like.
Right, it's like there's alwaysgoing to be something next, you
know, once the career is done,you know, and the work you're
putting in now I'm sure isteeing that up.
(13:45):
But yeah, I mean, I like whatyou said about the.
You know, having a young familyreally shifted things
professionally.
You know I was talking withanother dad and you know he was
saying he felt a lot of anxietybecause a lot of his competitors
were like single dudes that allthey had to do was basically be
an athlete and train and travel, and so it really did ramp up
the way that he was focused ontraining, because he's like I
(14:07):
only have this window, I have tomake it the best possible
training.
Like, how did that shift foryou in terms of what did that
professionalism look like?
Like, were you more organized?
Was there just more preparation?
Speaker 1 (14:19):
Yeah, you know, like it definitely did affect the
amount of time I spent abroadand surf about 100%.
It did affect that, but it alsomade you make the most of when
you did go surfing.
I remember a couple of friendssaying now you're going to be a
dad, it's probably time to windit down.
It was funny that the pressurewas from more friends and maybe
(14:40):
family members saying, okay,well, now you're a dad, now
you've got like kids, maybe,just like you know, think about
full-time plumbing career andforget about surfing.
And so I felt like that wasmore external pressure.
You know those people weren'tbeing mean or trying to crush a
dream, it was just, you know,like, the way that they were
(15:00):
thinking about things or youknow, just like, okay, well,
that also motivated me to think,well, no, actually, no, like
that's maybe what you want to do, but I don't want to give up on
this yet.
You know like I still felt good.
You know, I still felt like Ihad stuff to achieve and and was
capable of doing that thatresonates so much.
Speaker 2 (15:18):
I mean, when I had my first son too, I, I, I think I
felt it more internal.
I guess it was just know fromyears of absorbing society's
messaging.
And you know, I was like, damn,am I done?
Am I done climbing mountains?
Like, am I done doing somewhatrisky endeavors?
Like, or do I just have toadjust the way that I approach
(15:40):
it?
Kind of like what you'rethinking about of like risk and
taking care of my body.
But then, yeah, I love yourpoint of like well, no, that's
just how you chose to live yourlife.
And like there's a reason thatyou, as Andrew, are flying all
over the world to get to surfthe biggest waves is because
you're willing to take the risk,you know, and make the
(16:01):
sacrifices to get to go do thosethings.
And that was a big shift for meof like, no, like realizing,
like, is that what I want mykids to do?
It's like well, when you camealong, dad gave up all his
dreams and just cashed it in.
Speaker 1 (16:15):
Yeah, but then that turns into a later time.
It all turned into resentment.
I guess you know, or could do.
You know, like, and it's maybenot in the younger years, but
maybe more as you know, like youknow in your 40s or 50s, when
the kids start leaving home,you're like actually, you know,
like I still feel like I'mable-bodied, but I gave up my
career when I was 30,.
Speaker 2 (16:36):
you know, like Right.
Speaker 1 (16:39):
And I could have, and I think I didn't want to be,
you know like.
You know that I could have donethis, you know, but want to be,
you know like.
You know that I could have donethis, you know, but.
But life happened, you knowlike, and I had to give up.
Speaker 2 (16:49):
Yeah, it's like we have to give up something.
I guess it's like give up, or Ithink it more of like uh, we've
got to sacrifice something.
Right, there's of course, thesacrifices.
Speaker 1 (16:58):
You know, I, I know full well like it has a strain
and effect on relationships.
You know, especially,especially with your partners,
and at first we traveled a lottogether as a family.
Obviously, when the kids startto go to school and then it's
like suddenly not as fun, youknow, like dad's not here as
much or dad's just nipped offand he can't do the school run,
(17:18):
and then it becomes a little bitharder.
First and foremost, you knowthey've always been priority for
me and I know, like, as anyathlete will say, you know we
don't have, I don't have aschedule, so it's kind of hard
to plan around and I thinkthat's the most taxing thing.
Like if I I think if we couldgo at the beginning of the year
and just hand that the fixturelist over to your partner and
(17:40):
say, oh, this is what my wholeplan is this year, it would have
been be a lot easier.
But it's not.
You know, and and and that'sjust the nature of big wave
surfing and what I do and andthe kids, they love that sort of
, you know, that adventure andand like the time I do spend
with them, like we have the bestadventures and I think that
quality time for me is like it'sbeen amazing, you know, like
(18:01):
the the trips that I've donewith Honey and Ace and in the
last couple of years, like asHoney's got a bit older, she's
been less keen to like downthings.
She wants to hang out with herfriends, but Ace is still
totally up for it and he startedsnowboarding and he's
interested into surfing and intosoccer and different sports and
(18:21):
yeah, we've had some reallyreally good adventures together,
you know.
Speaker 2 (18:25):
Yeah, it's hard with the no schedule, but also
there's really no blueprint forhow you and your whole life show
up like this, like there's veryfew people to model after of.
Like, how do I do this?
How do I manage the schedule,manage the kids, deal with all
the ambiguity and the chaos, um,and so actually one of the
things I was curious about wasaround this idea of you know,
(18:46):
knowing that you're gone andtraveling, yeah, how do you
think about either catching upor making up or being really
present when you are back home,or including them in those in
those travels?
Speaker 1 (18:59):
like when I was away, I was working, surfing, and
when I was home, like I wasalways around to do the school,
the school pickups, the you know, the drop-offs, the clubs, and
to spend quality time also islike, it's like being
self-employed.
The thing that I often foundmyself getting sucked into is
like you're trying to do theschool run and and do the clubs,
(19:20):
but you're also trying to like,reply to emails and do your
social media and, you know, doyour sponsor obligations and and
also look at the, the chartsand plan your next trip and and
who you're filming with and whatprojects you're doing.
So it it has always been ajuggling act, but it is trying
to keep those times.
Quality Okay, right, I can doquality work time and then
(19:41):
quality family time.
I've always found myself goingin and out of those things.
Sometimes I get up to the teaand I feel quite proud of myself
, and other times I find myselfslipping back into that where
you're trying to reply to emailswhen you should be really just,
you know, sitting at the dinnertable.
You know like and being andbeing present.
(20:03):
You know.
If you can master that, I thinkyou, you, you set yourself up
for a far easier life and andrelationships as well, and I
think that is the key, becauseit is about having really good
relationships with your partnerand your kids, and I think
that's the key learn how to dothose things like how much has
(20:37):
that been the case for you?
Speaker 2 (20:37):
like, have there been times where things really came
to a head and you found yourselfbeing like man?
Speaker 1 (20:40):
I've really got to learn this lesson or it's going
to cost me totally all the timeand and I'm still learning and
I'm still going through thatit's about rhythms.
For me, like you get into areally good rhythm and you feel
like you're doing really welland then all of a sudden, before
you know it, you've fallen backinto old habits or bad habits
of things that have just haven'tworked.
You know like either theystress you out and you feel like
there's too much going on, youfeel like you're committing to
(21:03):
too much, too many things andyou're juggling, like the
children and the family time,and but that's, that's
continuous.
What we tell ourselves is isbecause we're trying to do our
passion or a goal, that we're inthe wrong, or that I'm in the
wrong, and it's like actually,well, do you know what?
Even if I had a normal job,like if I had my own plumbing
(21:25):
business, it would be exactlythe same.
You know you still havepressures of, like replying to
inquiries or keep it on top ofthe invoices or all these things
, and you'll still be doing thesame.
So I think that I think the factthat you're doing what you love
doing and you are managing toput food on the table and you
(21:47):
are managing to achieve apersonal goal and to live your
dream.
That comes with a little bit ofguilt, which which really it
shouldn't do.
You know like it shouldn't do.
Why, why should that come withguilt?
You know, like that guilt issometimes hard to manage.
And I speak to some of myfriends who you know they have
great jobs at home and butthey're exactly the same, like
(22:07):
they're balancing all thesethings work.
Speaker 2 (22:09):
You know all these things and, and I think everyone
is struggling to manage thosetimes that that's an interesting
point of like yeah, like theguilt coming from the fact that
you just happen to love what youdo.
It's like, yeah, if you werelike an accountant, like would
you feel less guilty?
Or like what if you were justsuper pumped on accounting?
(22:30):
And you're like, fuck, I feelguilty because I really love
accounting and spreadsheets.
But like you know, like it is,yeah, I think people's
perceptions is like you know,you're out there just playing
and they don't see all that goesinto everything that you do, of
like the business side of it.
And then you're like, oh yeah,I actually have to go train and
surf too so that I can keepdoing all this stuff.
(22:51):
And then I'm gone, which ishard, but the guilt is real man.
Speaker 1 (22:55):
I suppose my, my business is a small cottage.
You know, like I'm very small,I'm a one-man band, like I don't
have a management team oranyone doing my social media,
I'm doing everything myself.
Okay, so not only do I have torun my small business, I also
have to surf, which is the key,the main part of the job.
But then train, keep fit, andit is.
(23:15):
It's super hard to find time inthe day and you know like I'm
so fortunate, but it is.
It is a full balancing act andand there is a lot of guilt that
I, dude, I have that, theinternal I mean I've.
Speaker 2 (23:26):
I have two kinds of guilt.
I guess is like normal dadguilt of, like you know, I'm
laying in bed, of like, ah, Ikind of I lost my shit today.
You know I I should have beenmore calm, I should have been
more patient, or I didn't getenough time.
And then there's the otherguilt of, yeah, like being away
and pursuing the things I wantto pursue, or even just
traveling for work.
But I remember this moment withmy oldest son, I was going to
(23:48):
climb in Alaska this last Juneand you know, we just we're
trying to talk about theimportance of it and like this
is kind of a big deal and dad'sgoing to be like you can only
reach me via satellite phone andeven then it's only via text
message, so you're only going toget to talk to dad through mom
reading text messages.
And I found this out after thewords.
(24:09):
But my oldest son went to mywife and goes is dad going to
die on this trip?
And I was like, oh, dude, likeI'm so sorry that, like that was
a thing that I put on you thatyou even had to consider,
because I'm just like gone doingmy thing that I love, but like,
yeah, that just like feeling sotorn in two places.
(24:30):
And you know, my wife was likeI didn't want to tell you that
before you left, but likeafterwards I thought it was
important for you to know that.
And it was like I didn't wantto tell you that before you left
, but like afterwards I thoughtit was important for you to know
that.
Speaker 1 (24:40):
And it's like, man, that I don't know that that
guilt ever goes away Likemanaging that, I think, is like
a constant ordeal for us.
Yeah, I can remember cominghome when I sort of broke my
back and I'd spoken to Ace onthe phone and sort of said, oh
look, I've broken my back.
And obviously he'd gone toschool and said, oh, my dad's
broken his back.
And I think maybe someone hadjust said, oh, so what is it?
You know, is your dad in thewheelchair now?
You know, like he didn't thinkthat I would get better.
(25:01):
I had back-to-back quiteserious injuries.
I had a compression fracture inmy L2 in my back.
That was out of action and Ithink the hardest thing for.
Both of the kids, but maybe morefor ace, who's a bit younger,
was I couldn't really play withhim, you know, like, like in the
things that he wanted to do,which was like football and
(25:21):
skateboarding at the time, and Iwas only surfing again for like
two months and then I rupturedall the ligaments in my knee and
then I was out of action foranother like six to eight months
.
So for two years ace saw me oncrutches and either bedridden or
not being able to do the thingsthat that we wanted to do or he
(25:42):
wanted to do with me, and yousort of think my guilt with him
was like I hope I just notputting him off sports.
You know, like dad's alwaysinjured, like he goes away and
comes back either on crutches orin, like his leg and plaster,
you know, like it was just likeanything can happen in life, you
know, and it does, you know, tomillions of people.
(26:04):
You know every day.
Speaker 2 (26:06):
It's hard too, I think, because you know, for
kids dad is Superman, so you'relike man Superman's going out
and breaking his back, and thisis like it's probably hard for
the kids.
Speaker 1 (26:17):
He's just at home.
He's always injured and he'salways like either like lying on
the sofa or hobbling around oncrutches.
So, you know and yeah, andobviously like his friends,
especially like the bat thingwas quite widespread on the
telly and like quite so I thinkat school like he was getting
(26:38):
probably a few more commentsthan any he would have usually
got.
Speaker 2 (26:42):
you know, especially we were not because I wanted him
on me like you know, I thinkwhen kids are young like that,
context is maybe missing.
But but I'm curious about thatspecific incident, you know, as
I remember learning about it,reading about it, you know.
Walk us through that moment ofwhat happened when you broke
your back, because I think it'sone thing to break your back on
land, but to break your back inthe ocean, at a place like
(27:04):
Nazare, that had to beterrifying.
So walk us through that moment.
Where were you, what washappening and how did it go down
?
Speaker 1 (27:12):
So, yeah, it was just Nazare in 2017.
And it was one of the biggestswells of the year Well,
actually, one of the biggestswells I've had in a long time.
It was one of those like all ornothing sort of days for me.
And I put it on the line,committed quite heavily to a
wave, and the way I read thewave was just wrong.
You know, when we look at thewave, it's like I definitely
(27:33):
surf it different.
Now I paid the price for that.
I fell and the wave hit me sohard it basically just crushed
me.
I knew instantly that I'd donesome serious damage.
The impact was on a differentlevel.
Then you have to go through thewhole situation, dealing with
(27:57):
other waves and jet ski rides.
I was fortunate to get to thebeach.
Um, I never at any pointthought I was going to drown or
I was just in a lot of pain, youknow.
And I did get to the beach andfrom that second it was all
handled very, veryprofessionally and very quick
and, um, you know, like I'vebeen a lifeguard for for seven
or eight years in the uk and Ibasically just told the boys
that I was pretty sure I'dbroken my back and they just did
(28:18):
a classic spinal takedown andthat was it.
I was in the hospital within anhour, I think, once I got to the
beach.
There was a bit of a languageproblem.
Obviously, we were in Portugaland I speak no Portuguese.
It wasn't until probably like48 hours later and I hadn't even
stood up.
I'd been lying down the wholetime.
(28:38):
I hadn't even like try to situp or anything like that, like I
just couldn't do that.
And the nurse came in and waslike okay, we're going to try
and get you to stand up today.
And they put this like bodybrace on me to sort of take the
weight of my spine.
And they did all this bodybrace up, this body brace up,
and actually Garrett was there.
Like Garrett was in the room.
The nurse sort of put the braceon and tried to sit me up on
(28:59):
the bed and for the life of me,like I couldn't.
I couldn't even put a foot onthe floor and it wasn't the fact
that I couldn't put a foot onthe floor, it was looking
Garrett's eye.
I could just see that.
It was the first time I've everever seen him even slightly
concerned, like he'd always been.
So like, are you be alright?
(29:19):
It's fine, you know.
And he looked it's the firsttime I've ever sort of seen like
a little bit of fear andconcern in his eyes and I was
like shit, like this is prettyfucking serious.
Like that day, that day Iactually didn't stand up.
The lady tried to get me up.
I was almost sick, I was likenauseous.
I actually didn't stand up.
The lady tried to get me up.
I was almost sick, I was likenauseous, I just couldn't do it.
And then they were like worriedoh, maybe he's got like a bad
(29:41):
concussion.
And then I went for brain scansand then the reality sort of
hit like oh, this isn't just alittle injury, this isn't just a
broken bone where you put it inplaster and you rest for a few
weeks and then you're back outon action.
You know like this is quiteserious.
Rehab for me is quite easybecause go to a program, you
just follow a program.
(30:01):
Right, if you do this, this andthis by this you're.
You're physically there.
I think that's where theathlete in me takes over,
because I love following thoseprograms and I love feel I'm
getting better and stronger.
But I think mentally, like thetrauma probably takes a lot
longer than we think to get overthat and I think that trauma
(30:23):
was probably hanging around fora good three, three, four years
you know, like and it's probablya little little bit still in
the back of my mind now like Ifeel like if I had like a really
bad injury now, like I feellike I don't know if I could go
through another year of you knowa year of rehab you never know
(30:44):
until you're faced with that.
But you know, that's the backof my mind sometimes, like if I
had to do another big injurylike that, like I don't know if
I could do it.
Speaker 2 (30:52):
The psychological part of that is enormous.
Yeah, as, as you mentioned, andeven even once you're back
which you've you didsuccessfully come back and surf
again.
It's always sort of there inthe back of your mind, I imagine
to, to feel like you know, Ireally I can't and don't want
this to to be a repeat of whathas already gone down.
Speaker 1 (31:11):
Yeah, what's already gone, or lucky.
You know, like you could sayfuck, I was like super lucky.
You know, like my back couldhave been way worse, my knee
could have been way worse and II had huge support, especially
the back injury.
Like I had so much support andlove from so many people that
(31:31):
I'd never met so many messagesand and I was like, yeah, it's
like whoa.
No, no way, like I can'tbelieve, like this it touched so
many people.
You know that they felt that thethe need to either email or
message or my family and friendsand and and even you know, my
sponsors.
You know everyone stood by andand supported me through through
(31:52):
those two years.
You know of bad injuries so andI was amazed because I didn't
think anyone would you know.
You know, like, uh, thanks forcoming, you know, like you did
well, but probably this is thisis it you know, and but they
didn't.
So I was.
I felt like I was really,really fortunate, you know, and,
and that motivates you to tocome back and and do it.
(32:15):
You know, show again like, showwhat's possible.
Speaker 2 (32:19):
Prove to yourself you know what you can put your body
through and survive and andalso still achieve what you want
to try and do, yeah, and it'samazing that, in that moment of
like fear and desperation, thatthat that love came from all
different sources people youknew, people you didn't,
sponsors, all the above.
(32:39):
So, yeah, that's awesome, youknow, I think, when, when you
think about all you've gonethrough and this might be a
really hard question to answer,so you can take a second if you
want to ponder it for a bit butwhen you think about the
injuries and the struggle oftrying to make it, as a
professional athlete, pursueyour goals and going through the
divorce and all the otherchallenges that you faced in
(33:00):
your life in the pursuit ofreally creating the life that
you want to live, and you thinkabout if you had to pass on one
or two lessons to your kids,knowing what you know from all
those experiences, like, what doyou think are the one or two
(33:20):
things that you'd really want tocommunicate to your kids that
you've taken away from buildingthis life that you've built?
Speaker 1 (33:27):
don't give up.
I've read something the otherday it's about knowing a good
time to walk away, you know, orto give up on something I don't
know if I really agree with thator not like I feel like there's
been so many times where I'vejust wanted to walk away from it
all and not give up on mysurfing dream or those goals
that I've been trying to achieve.
And sitting here right now, I'mso glad I didn't give up on my
(33:51):
surfing From leaving school.
I left school at 16 and wastold basically, surfing is not a
job, so you can't do it, sochoose something else on the
list.
That was my careers advisorfrom my secondary school.
It was like you can't be asurfer, it's not a job.
You have to either go tocollege or go to university and
(34:15):
you can choose these 100 jobs onthe list here.
Just choose one.
I don't want to do any of those.
Speaker 2 (34:20):
choose one I don't want to do any of those things.
I don't want to do any of thoselike and this is all you know
like.
Speaker 1 (34:26):
So I left school and started work straight away in a
surfboard factory and even thenI was like trying to compete and
and I was just so like in smallway of competition, surfing,
and and even though I neverreally got the results, I always
like, put, put my time in anddid my best.
You know, and and this is hardas being a dad, like kids have
very different personalities.
You know, like honey, who's theeldest, he's very driven and
(34:50):
very committed to everything shedoes, whether it's like school
or any sport.
She's a really keen rugbyplayer, but ace the younger one,
I like sometimes I just seemgiven up very quickly and I'm
like, mate, come on, like, yeah,yeah, of course you're gonna
fall, of course you're gonnahurt yourself, but don't let it
put you off, because I seesometimes them giving up very
quickly on on things that theyget into.
(35:13):
But maybe that's just kidsfinding their way of what they
their passion is.
But for me it's just like, yeah, don't give up?
Speaker 2 (35:20):
that's the million dollar question and often when
we explore is like how do weappropriately push our kids?
Speaker 1 (35:26):
so I used to do, um a surf club.
In my 20s I did a local surfclub.
I was very involved in it.
Um, I was obviously working inthe surf industry, um, working
at a surf shop and and at theweekends we used to do like club
contests and kid stuff and andI saw some really, really pushy
(35:47):
parents.
It kind of was like I justnever want to be like.
I can remember saying to myselflike when I'm a dad, like I
don't want to be that guy youknow like yeah, so it was always
.
It's always a hard onenavigating that.
So I've always like given themthe tools but never been too
cushy with that.
Yeah, but then sometimes I'mlike it's hard to know whether
(36:09):
you're doing the right thing,because they says I don't want
to go surfing, like it's coldand and like I'm just not
enjoying it.
Speaker 2 (36:14):
You're like well, if you're not enjoying it, don't do
it, mate like you know yeah butthat, yeah, or do you go?
Speaker 1 (36:20):
no, mate, you've got to go surfing today.
It's like you've got to go inthree times every week.
You know, you have, you knowlike, and it's the same with
swim club, he didn't, he doesn'tlike, he didn't like swimming.
But my, my thing was like okay,you don't want to do like squad
training, but you have to do atleast two sessions of swimming
every week and he hated it, hehates it.
But it's one thing that I sortof stood my ground on, like so
(36:42):
important to be good at swimming, so like I kind of forced him
on that one a little bit.
We, we pushed it for, I think,two years.
He's just gone back now he does.
Now he does one session swimtraining and he's taken up water
polo, but it's just like yeah,yeah, you know like you have to
do something, like no that wasmy one thing.
Speaker 2 (37:01):
Yeah, it's such a it's dude I.
I hear you on like the notwanting to be those dads.
Everyone knows what we'retalking about when we say those
dads and I think that, like I'm,I'm no expert and that's
actually one of the reasons Icreated the athlete dad is to
try to answer those questions,because I suck at this.
Like.
So who else has got this?
And I actually find for me it'slike is why I want them to do
(37:23):
this thing?
Is it rooted in something thatis secure?
Like those dads are doing thatbecause they are doing it
because of their owninsecurities, right, like they
didn't achieve the success theywanted.
Or like the kid's performanceis wrapped in their identity.
Like if my kid isn't the bestkid on the team, like it
reflects poorly on me, and likethat's all insecure bullshit,
(37:43):
right, and so it's like, am Ipushing them?
Because there's, there'ssomething, it's rooted in
something secure?
And I hear you on the swimming,because I'm like no, like
drowning is a real issue withkids.
Like you have to learn how toswim.
And like where we live's likerivers and lakes and pools.
Like swimming is like dude,you're going to die if you don't
know how to swim, and so it'slike and the litmus test I
(38:06):
always I got this from my wifeactually too, I guess not a
litmus test, but more of justlike a kind of a success
criteria is like don't let yourkids quit on bad days.
They're only allowed to quit ongood days.
It's like, okay, you had a shitday in the pool, you had a shit
day in surfing, like dude, thathappens.
But you're not allowed to quiton your bad days because that's
when you'll regret it and that'swhen you miss the benefits.
(38:27):
So if you have a great day andyou're like you know what, I
just don't want to keep doingswimming, I don't enjoy it it's
like cool, then you can, you'reallowed to quit.
So yeah, that those are twothings that I'm always trying to
like hold in my mind when I'mwhen I'm pushing.
Speaker 1 (38:39):
So yeah, it's good, but it is a.
It is a minefield of knowingreally how hard to push, Cause
the other thing would be likehoney's, like almost the
complete opposite.
She was a really good swimmerand she went, she did like loads
of sessions a week and then andthen she's got into rugby and
then and she started doing, yeah, more and more sessions and but
(39:03):
she really was wanted to do youknow I mean to do that like she
was very, very passionate aboutit, loved it um with both
sports, whereas ace, I feel likeoften he would happily just not
do anything like you reallyhave to, like you know, know,
like he'dhave to just sit and watch TV,
you know, or play on the Xbox,or you know, like, so it is like
(39:24):
it's a hard to get him out.
Sometimes it's hard to get himout of the house.
You know, like, yeah, come on,mate.
Like I don't, it's not verynice, it's like, come on, mate,
it can be a mission, you know,just to get them to the clubs.
Yeah, you don't want to be thepushy dad, but also you don't
want to when they are 18, 19, 20, like do them to go.
(39:49):
Why don't you just make me dothat Like.
You know, like you didn't pushme enough, like you should have
met.
You know, like, so it is a fineline, I feel it is a fine line
and it's and I and I'd love toknow, like when I, when you look
at like these super talented,really young kids, like the sky
(40:10):
Brown, you know like she'sextremely young but like super
talented in multi-sports.
Multi-sports skateboarding,surfing and I always wonder,
like how much is that from the,the talented child?
Or is it like how much has beennot forced?
But you know like how much hasbeen pushed by the adult?
You know the parents love toknow how they did it.
Speaker 2 (40:31):
Yeah, I, I, yeah.
I find myself asking that toobecause it's like you know, I
want my kids to also kind ofselfishly like, like what I like
, like I'd be great if they loveto ski and climb and do these
things.
So like there's also a degreeof like.
How much do I push them intothese specific things versus
like, letting it unfoldnaturally?
Speaker 1 (40:51):
I've come up with a, I've come up with a theory on
this and no matter what, nomatter what what I do, I'm never
going to be cool.
Yeah, like, yeah.
So I let that go very quickly.
Like I gave Ace and Honey likeboth like options of surfing and
skateboarding, and and I foundthat, um, they both got into
(41:16):
team sports, which is somethingI've never, I've never watched
on TV.
We've never had like any sportlike football or rugby on in the
house, never, never have, like,just don't watch it.
So Ace got into golf andfootball and and Honey's like
obsessed with rugby and and it'sall the things that I've never
even and I and it's just cause,like, like, what dad does isn't
(41:38):
cool.
It doesn't matter how cool youthink you are.
Speaker 2 (41:43):
Yes.
Speaker 1 (41:43):
It is never going to be cool and I kind of embrace
that because I always think aswell that that cross-training of
all these different sports itall feeds in and like, even for
me, like you know, the sportsthat I do now, I never thought
I'd be doing that when I was akid, you know, as a, as a job.
So, um, I kind of embrace that.
(42:04):
You know, I've enjoyed, I'veenjoyed many uh uh afternoon at
the driving range and things,things.
I, you know I've never reallyplayed golf in my life, getting
into it just because ace is intoit and um, and also taking
honey to the, to the rugby andand um, and learning, learning
(42:25):
about different, those differentsports, has been really fun
I'll tell you you're not alonein that of like there's.
Speaker 2 (42:30):
There's a lot of cool dads we've had on the, on the
podcast, and they're all lame inthe eyes of their own kids.
They're like oh dad is soboring, like.
It's such a funny dynamic oflike at home you're just, you're
just dad, and yeah, nothing youdo is cool, so it's it's, it's
reassuring it's just soembarrassing, please don't even
hold my hand or don't don't evenlike.
Speaker 1 (42:51):
Just like, and I can remember, like I knew must have
been about seven or eight, Icaught this wave.
It was like 2014 and uh, it hadlike huge exposure.
It was all the news andeverything and uh, and I was
feeling like pretty high andpretty cool and I got doing the
school run like about a weeklater after all this like global
(43:13):
press, press stuff and and I,yeah, I was on a big high and
and I come over picking Annie upand she's just like, please
don't even like, don't even walknext to me.
You're so embarrassing.
You know what I mean.
Like you're so embarrassing,you're like, don't even walk
next to me.
I'm like, really, am I that bad?
(43:33):
Like I've just surfed one ofthe biggest waves on the planet
and I'm embarrassing like whatlike nobody keeps you in check
like your own kid yeah, that'sawesome.
Speaker 2 (43:45):
Yeah it's.
I suppose it's a service to you.
Know, make sure that our egosdon't get too inflated.
You know, I don't know there's.
There's some benefit there, soyeah man for sure, awesome.
Well, andrew dude, thank you somuch for your time.
I really appreciate it.
I've loved hearing your stories, loved hearing all the lessons
and, you know, really excited tocontinue following along on the
journey.
Whatever that may be next foryou, uh, maybe we'll see if we
(44:07):
can coax you to do somemountaineering and some, maybe
some skiing on the way down, oryou'll you'll stick with surfing
, but yeah, I just want to saythanks again, man.
Speaker 1 (44:15):
I really appreciate the time today no, no, it's been
, it's been cool, it's been cool.
It's it's been a greatconversation.
I really actually it's made methink a lot about it and I think
that's really, that's reallypositive.
So, yeah, thank you.
Nazarene 2017, and it was one of the biggest swells
of the year and, well, actuallyone of the biggest swells you've
had in a long time.
It was one of those likeall-or-nothing sort of days for
me, and I put it on the line,committed quite heavily to a
wave and the way I read the wavewas just wrong, paid the price
(00:23):
for that, you know, and I fell.
The wave hit me so hard it sortof basically just crushed me,
and then you have to go throughthe whole whole situation,
dealing with, like other wavesand jet ski rides, and I was
fortunate to get to the beach.
I basically just told the boysthat I'm pretty sure I broke my
back and, for the life of me, Icouldn't even put a foot on the
(00:47):
floor.
Shit, this is pretty fuckingserious.
Speaker 2 (00:56):
Welcome to the Athlete Dad Podcast, where we
explore the intersection ofphysical pursuits and fatherhood
, of physical pursuits andfatherhood.
I'm your host, ben Gibson, andeach episode we'll dive deep
into topics like modeling,ambition, achieving balance and
intentional integration aroundathletic passions and parenting.
If you're seeking to accomplishyour goals as an athlete while
(01:18):
crushing it as a parent, thenyou've come to the right place.
Come to the right place.
What's up everyone?
We are back with an excitingconversation with Mr Andrew
Cotton, known by most simply asCotty.
Cotty is a professional bigwave surfer.
He is also the co-star of HBO'sseries 100 Foot Wave.
(01:40):
If that sounds familiar, you mayremember Garrett McNamara
joining us on the podcast onepisode nine.
We had the pleasure of meetingAndrew through Garrett and I can
remember watching 100 Foot Waveand seeing Andrew and just
really falling in love with hisstory.
Andrew's story is one aboutdreaming, about self-belief,
about perseverance, even in theface of some seemingly
(02:04):
insurmountable challenges.
I mean even just growing up.
Where he grew up in North Devonin the UK, he did not have a
straight path to the life of apro surfer and yet once he got
on a board as a kid, heimmediately knew that, no matter
what it would take.
He was going to find a way tosurf as his career and find a
way he did, and in ourconversation you'll hear all
(02:27):
about Andrew's rise through thesurf scene, bouncing between
jobs like being a plumber, untilwhat most would deem the end of
their careers, when Cotty wasable to link up with Garrett
McNamara to surf some of thebiggest waves on earth at Nazare
, portugal.
How do you balance being afather when you have an
unpredictable travel scheduletaking you all over the world
(02:49):
with two kids at home and youwant to be an amazing father but
also continue to pursue yourdreams as a professional surfer?
It's pretty tough, and so wetalk about how Andrew thinks
about balancing fatherhood withthat often unpredictable travel
schedule and this idea aboutinvesting in your kids when you
are home to try to offset whenyou're away.
(03:09):
He also talks about thechallenges of co-parenting after
a divorce and how to turn anegative situation like a
divorce into something verypositive.
There's this great themeamongst the surfers we've had on
the show, and that's thatthey've all been extremely
intentional about designing thelife that they wanted for
themselves and for theirfamilies, and they worked for
(03:30):
decades to overcome hugeobstacles to realize those
dreams, and I think that thereare not just so many lessons in
this conversation around balanceand lifestyle design and
pursuing your dreams, but reallythe challenges that need to be
overcome to manifest that foryourself.
So, without further ado, pleaseenjoy my conversation with Mr
(03:55):
Andrew Cotton.
Andrew, thanks so much fortaking time out of your travels,
out of your week, to have thisconversation around athlete dad
life, so I really appreciate youbeing here.
Speaker 1 (04:09):
Thanks for having me and giving me the opportunity to
chat.
Speaker 2 (04:12):
I know we met through our friend Garrett and you know
I know many folks are familiarwith your story, a bit from 100
for a Wave.
But you know, help usunderstand a bit more about what
does life look like for you asdad?
And then what does life looklike for you as athlete in the
really the two different worldsthat you're navigating right now
.
Speaker 1 (04:31):
I got divorced in like 2019.
So my life changed verydifferently then, whereas I felt
like I was spending a lot moretime at home when I was married,
and now, like with obviouslyseparation and then in COVID, I
started spending definitely alot more time abroad.
(04:51):
I've got two children.
I've got a honey, who's 16.
She's my stepdaughter.
You know been her dad since shewas three.
And then I have Ace.
You know being her dad since Iwas.
She was three, and then I haveAce, who's 11.
As I am, yeah, moving to my 40s, trying to like really make the
most of my career, you know,always focusing on riding the
(05:13):
biggest waves, um, in the bestlocations, and focusing on my
performance as an athlete.
I've had some pretty badinjuries over the years, as, as
any professional athlete um hasor, you know, gets, and it's
just trying to like manage thoseand and still compete with the
youngsters really yeah, theyseem to be just getting younger
(05:33):
and younger and doing more crazystuff.
Speaker 2 (05:36):
I mean, even just in the time you've been at nazare,
it went from just like can wecatch these waves and ride them?
To then guys like kai doingaerials off of these waves.
It's quite a dramatic shift yes, it's the.
Speaker 1 (05:50):
The landscape is moving very quickly and I feel
like, especially like the bigwave scene, that these other
sort of um sports and kitesports and wind sports and
windsurfing is all having like,uh, influence on actual surfing
itself, which is, I feel it'staking that performance level to
the next level.
You know, whereas for me, likeI've always been a surfer and
(06:13):
focused on surfing and, and thenbig wave was just like an
opportunity that came my way, um, which something was like
really enjoying and I lovepushing and but it's great to
see, you know, like in aprofessional career, that we
thought that we'd stop windingit down like in our 30s.
I didn't sign a.
My first contract was when Iwas like 34, 35, so it's kind of
(06:34):
like late into the game, um, soI just feel it's like an
opportunity and I'm like I'mlike like every, yeah, every
moment of the minute it's likewell, how can I, how can I get
better?
How can I get fitter?
How can it's like well, how canI get better?
How can I get fitter?
How can I work my injuries?
How can I outperform these guys, these younger kids that are
(06:54):
coming through and still keeppushing it?
Speaker 2 (06:58):
Yeah, that's interesting.
The evolution of the sportreally requires an evolution in
how you, as an athlete, approacheven just competing in it.
You know how do you bring indifferent dynamics from
different disciplines and applyit in the same way, and I think
it's it's also for me as a I'm35, it's reassuring to hear that
(07:19):
you know you didn't get yourfirst contract till you were 34
and that there's still a lot, of, a lot of work to be done as an
athlete.
Uh, well, into our 40s.
Because I I do agree.
Like you know, when you're 20syou're like, yeah, I'll wrap
this up by 35 and that's prettymuch it.
I'll be in, you know, I'll bein a wheelchair by 40, and you
know it's, it's it's reassuringto hear, for sure and hanging
(07:39):
out, but I just sometimes likeI'm getting these opportunities
now.
Speaker 1 (07:43):
So I'm thinking like no way, like if I had this in my
20s or when I was like I leftschool at like 16 and the dream
was always to be a professionalsurfer, but I just never.
Like I never really came my way, which was never a problem.
Like I worked and did variousjobs in the surf industry and
but like I'm always thinkingshit, if I really knew what I
(08:04):
know now, like how it could havebeen different.
But things all happen for areason and, um, you know, I feel
like I'm like really really ina good place.
I'm really really fortunatethat's awesome, man.
Speaker 2 (08:15):
You know I want to talk about you pursuing your
dreams.
You pursuing your goal as aprofessional surfer.
Um, you know, I know it hasn'talways been easy and it's been a
very long journey and there's alot of ups and downs, as you
mentioned, injuries andobviously with competition, and
you're relying on a sport thatis dependent upon nature
providing the right conditions,and you have to travel all over
(08:38):
the world.
You know there's a lot thatgoes into pursuing your dreams,
but, you know, one of the thingsI really believe in is that,
like one there's it's importantto do so because of that
personal fulfillment aspect ofit, and like that's what we're
here to do in life is to pursuethe things that light us up,
that that we're passionate about.
But then you start shifting tobeing a dad.
(09:00):
Being a dad and I think there'sthis whole other side of that
pursuing ambition, modelingambition piece that almost
becomes like a responsibility asa dad to show our kids how they
should go about navigating theworld, like what is?
pursuing your goals meant foryou now as a dad, as you think
about showing your kids that oflike, go pursue your dreams, go
(09:22):
do these things like that, doyou feel like it has a bit more
meaning to it for you now?
Speaker 1 (09:27):
it's.
That's you know.
It's really funny, I think, ifyou, depending on who you speak
to, you always get differentopinions on on this and I and I
do struggle navigating it.
I feel like in the beginning,having um, honey and ace, it was
like okay, right now, now Ihave to make this a career,
otherwise it just has to be ahobby.
So it's almost like themotivation it was like.
(09:50):
I can actually remember likeace came along and it was like,
okay, like I've really got tosort it out, I've really got to
make this, monetize this, andlike this either has to be a job
or it has to be okay, like I doit, maybe every now and then at
a weekend.
So it really helped meprofessionalize my goals, I
(10:12):
suppose, and professionalizewhat I was doing and motivate me
as well.
I was like, yeah, I just wantedto achieve something to prove
that I could do it, and I thinkthat was a real motivation for
me.
I had a big injury in 2017.
I was doing a lot of traveling,but only in Europe.
Through those younger yearswhen I had ACE, I was almost
(10:33):
like in 2017, after my my, Ibroke my back and I was kind of
like on the edge of like hangingup, like, okay, right, yeah, I
kind of done, I'm happy to stayat home.
And then my, my, my marriagesort of fell apart and and it
actually released a new set ofambitions for me.
Really, like I was strugglingwith it.
(10:54):
Okay, I'm 40 now, I'm a singleand I was looking around at
where I live at home and I waslike I just I don't want to be
here.
You know, like I don't want tobe living in in this village and
in devon, and it just sort ofmotivated me to get fit, uh, get
stronger, set new goals, youknow, look for new partners and
(11:14):
brands to work with, and yeah,and just go after it even harder
.
Um, and and all of that sort ofwas happening, just as the time
that the HBO stuff was sort ofcoming out, which really gave me
an extra push with exposurewise as well, and it is also
motivational like having a filmcrew there filming what you're
(11:36):
doing and where you're going,and you know the sessions that
you're doing, and so it all sortof really, you know, you know,
came together, which is kind ofa surprise.
You know, like I didn't, Ididn't really think that I'll be
going as hard.
You know this, this furtherinto my you know, like into my
40s, I don't think I'll bepushing it as hard, but but yeah
(11:57):
, it's exciting, it's beenexciting yeah, I mean kudos to
you for taking a situation thatwas difficult and a down moment
and really turning it into apositive Like.
Speaker 2 (12:07):
I think in a lot of those ways that's where I think
athletics and physical pursuitsare so important, because it can
one give you something toanchor on of like, okay, I've
got, you know, I've got thisgoal that is well within my
control as much as anything canbe right, but that I can put
energy and and focus into.
That's going to have a reallypositive outcome.
And yeah, and it's it's.
(12:29):
It's cool to hear that you knowreally unleashed new motivation
, new goals for you to get backand grind and and make the most
of it.
Speaker 1 (12:38):
Yeah, because, like you know, having having like a
young family definitely changedmy direction a little bit.
You make decisions and youthink, could it have all been
different?
In fact, it was like, no,everything's just right, this is
all perfect, and having Ace andHoney were the main motivations
(12:59):
to make everything moreprofessional.
And just because I'm not withmy mom anymore, like it doesn't
make any difference.
You know, like I can still be agreat dad, but I can actually
show them that, that you knowthat when they're teenagers, you
know like they can say, yeah,their dads, their stats, they're
still going hard in the ocean,you know, and I was still still
(13:19):
trying to pretend he's 21, butyeah that's awesome.
Speaker 2 (13:23):
Yeah, hey, I mean that's that's the way to live,
right?
Is uh is showing them that,like, dude, I'm going to run
this thing until the wheels comeoff, like I'm going to do
everything I can and, and youknow you're setting yourself up
for whatever that that nextphase of life looks like.
Right, it's like there's alwaysgoing to be something next, you
know, once the career is done,you know, and the work you're
putting in now I'm sure isteeing that up.
(13:45):
But yeah, I mean, I like whatyou said about the.
You know, having a young familyreally shifted things
professionally.
You know I was talking withanother dad and you know he was
saying he felt a lot of anxietybecause a lot of his competitors
were like single dudes that allthey had to do was basically be
an athlete and train and travel, and so it really did ramp up
the way that he was focused ontraining, because he's like I
(14:07):
only have this window, I have tomake it the best possible
training.
Like, how did that shift foryou in terms of what did that
professionalism look like?
Like, were you more organized?
Was there just more preparation?
Speaker 1 (14:19):
Yeah, you know, like it definitely did affect the
amount of time I spent abroadand surf about 100%.
It did affect that, but it alsomade you make the most of when
you did go surfing.
I remember a couple of friendssaying now you're going to be a
dad, it's probably time to windit down.
It was funny that the pressurewas from more friends and maybe
(14:40):
family members saying, okay,well, now you're a dad, now
you've got like kids, maybe,just like you know, think about
full-time plumbing career andforget about surfing.
And so I felt like that wasmore external pressure.
You know those people weren'tbeing mean or trying to crush a
dream, it was just, you know,like, the way that they were
(15:00):
thinking about things or youknow, just like, okay, well,
that also motivated me to think,well, no, actually, no, like
that's maybe what you want to do, but I don't want to give up on
this yet.
You know like I still felt good.
You know, I still felt like Ihad stuff to achieve and and was
capable of doing that thatresonates so much.
Speaker 2 (15:18):
I mean, when I had my first son too, I, I, I think I
felt it more internal.
I guess it was just know fromyears of absorbing society's
messaging.
And you know, I was like, damn,am I done?
Am I done climbing mountains?
Like, am I done doing somewhatrisky endeavors?
Like, or do I just have toadjust the way that I approach
(15:40):
it?
Kind of like what you'rethinking about of like risk and
taking care of my body.
But then, yeah, I love yourpoint of like well, no, that's
just how you chose to live yourlife.
And like there's a reason thatyou, as Andrew, are flying all
over the world to get to surfthe biggest waves is because
you're willing to take the risk,you know, and make the
(16:01):
sacrifices to get to go do thosethings.
And that was a big shift for meof like, no, like realizing,
like, is that what I want mykids to do?
It's like well, when you camealong, dad gave up all his
dreams and just cashed it in.
Speaker 1 (16:15):
Yeah, but then that turns into a later time.
It all turned into resentment.
I guess you know, or could do.
You know, like, and it's maybenot in the younger years, but
maybe more as you know, like youknow in your 40s or 50s, when
the kids start leaving home,you're like actually, you know,
like I still feel like I'mable-bodied, but I gave up my
career when I was 30,.
Speaker 2 (16:36):
you know, like Right.
Speaker 1 (16:39):
And I could have, and I think I didn't want to be,
you know like.
You know that I could have donethis, you know, but want to be,
you know like.
You know that I could have donethis, you know, but.
But life happened, you knowlike, and I had to give up.
Speaker 2 (16:49):
Yeah, it's like we have to give up something.
I guess it's like give up, or Ithink it more of like uh, we've
got to sacrifice something.
Right, there's of course, thesacrifices.
Speaker 1 (16:58):
You know, I, I know full well like it has a strain
and effect on relationships.
You know, especially,especially with your partners,
and at first we traveled a lottogether as a family.
Obviously, when the kids startto go to school and then it's
like suddenly not as fun, youknow, like dad's not here as
much or dad's just nipped offand he can't do the school run,
(17:18):
and then it becomes a little bitharder.
First and foremost, you knowthey've always been priority for
me and I know, like, as anyathlete will say, you know we
don't have, I don't have aschedule, so it's kind of hard
to plan around and I thinkthat's the most taxing thing.
Like if I I think if we couldgo at the beginning of the year
and just hand that the fixturelist over to your partner and
(17:40):
say, oh, this is what my wholeplan is this year, it would have
been be a lot easier.
But it's not.
You know, and and and that'sjust the nature of big wave
surfing and what I do and andthe kids, they love that sort of
, you know, that adventure andand like the time I do spend
with them, like we have the bestadventures and I think that
quality time for me is like it'sbeen amazing, you know, like
(18:01):
the the trips that I've donewith Honey and Ace and in the
last couple of years, like asHoney's got a bit older, she's
been less keen to like downthings.
She wants to hang out with herfriends, but Ace is still
totally up for it and he startedsnowboarding and he's
interested into surfing and intosoccer and different sports and
(18:21):
yeah, we've had some reallyreally good adventures together,
you know.
Speaker 2 (18:25):
Yeah, it's hard with the no schedule, but also
there's really no blueprint forhow you and your whole life show
up like this, like there's veryfew people to model after of.
Like, how do I do this?
How do I manage the schedule,manage the kids, deal with all
the ambiguity and the chaos, um,and so actually one of the
things I was curious about wasaround this idea of you know,
(18:46):
knowing that you're gone andtraveling, yeah, how do you
think about either catching upor making up or being really
present when you are back home,or including them in those in
those travels?
Speaker 1 (18:59):
like when I was away, I was working, surfing, and
when I was home, like I wasalways around to do the school,
the school pickups, the you know, the drop-offs, the clubs, and
to spend quality time also islike, it's like being
self-employed.
The thing that I often foundmyself getting sucked into is
like you're trying to do theschool run and and do the clubs,
(19:20):
but you're also trying to like,reply to emails and do your
social media and, you know, doyour sponsor obligations and and
also look at the, the chartsand plan your next trip and and
who you're filming with and whatprojects you're doing.
So it it has always been ajuggling act, but it is trying
to keep those times.
Quality Okay, right, I can doquality work time and then
(19:41):
quality family time.
I've always found myself goingin and out of those things.
Sometimes I get up to the teaand I feel quite proud of myself
, and other times I find myselfslipping back into that where
you're trying to reply to emailswhen you should be really just,
you know, sitting at the dinnertable.
You know like and being andbeing present.
(20:03):
You know.
If you can master that, I thinkyou, you, you set yourself up
for a far easier life and andrelationships as well, and I
think that is the key, becauseit is about having really good
relationships with your partnerand your kids, and I think
that's the key learn how to dothose things like how much has
(20:37):
that been the case for you?
Speaker 2 (20:37):
like, have there been times where things really came
to a head and you found yourselfbeing like man?
Speaker 1 (20:40):
I've really got to learn this lesson or it's going
to cost me totally all the timeand and I'm still learning and
I'm still going through thatit's about rhythms.
For me, like you get into areally good rhythm and you feel
like you're doing really welland then all of a sudden, before
you know it, you've fallen backinto old habits or bad habits
of things that have just haven'tworked.
You know like either theystress you out and you feel like
there's too much going on, youfeel like you're committing to
(21:03):
too much, too many things andyou're juggling, like the
children and the family time,and but that's, that's
continuous.
What we tell ourselves is isbecause we're trying to do our
passion or a goal, that we're inthe wrong, or that I'm in the
wrong, and it's like actually,well, do you know what?
Even if I had a normal job,like if I had my own plumbing
(21:25):
business, it would be exactlythe same.
You know you still havepressures of, like replying to
inquiries or keep it on top ofthe invoices or all these things
, and you'll still be doing thesame.
So I think that I think the factthat you're doing what you love
doing and you are managing toput food on the table and you
(21:47):
are managing to achieve apersonal goal and to live your
dream.
That comes with a little bit ofguilt, which which really it
shouldn't do.
You know like it shouldn't do.
Why, why should that come withguilt?
You know, like that guilt issometimes hard to manage.
And I speak to some of myfriends who you know they have
great jobs at home and butthey're exactly the same, like
(22:07):
they're balancing all thesethings work.
Speaker 2 (22:09):
You know all these things and, and I think everyone
is struggling to manage thosetimes that that's an interesting
point of like yeah, like theguilt coming from the fact that
you just happen to love what youdo.
It's like, yeah, if you werelike an accountant, like would
you feel less guilty?
Or like what if you were justsuper pumped on accounting?
(22:30):
And you're like, fuck, I feelguilty because I really love
accounting and spreadsheets.
But like you know, like it is,yeah, I think people's
perceptions is like you know,you're out there just playing
and they don't see all that goesinto everything that you do, of
like the business side of it.
And then you're like, oh yeah,I actually have to go train and
surf too so that I can keepdoing all this stuff.
(22:51):
And then I'm gone, which ishard, but the guilt is real man.
Speaker 1 (22:55):
I suppose my, my business is a small cottage.
You know, like I'm very small,I'm a one-man band, like I don't
have a management team oranyone doing my social media,
I'm doing everything myself.
Okay, so not only do I have torun my small business, I also
have to surf, which is the key,the main part of the job.
But then train, keep fit, andit is.
(23:15):
It's super hard to find time inthe day and you know like I'm
so fortunate, but it is.
It is a full balancing act andand there is a lot of guilt that
I, dude, I have that, theinternal I mean I've.
Speaker 2 (23:26):
I have two kinds of guilt.
I guess is like normal dadguilt of, like you know, I'm
laying in bed, of like, ah, Ikind of I lost my shit today.
You know I I should have beenmore calm, I should have been
more patient, or I didn't getenough time.
And then there's the otherguilt of, yeah, like being away
and pursuing the things I wantto pursue, or even just
traveling for work.
But I remember this moment withmy oldest son, I was going to
(23:48):
climb in Alaska this last Juneand you know, we just we're
trying to talk about theimportance of it and like this
is kind of a big deal and dad'sgoing to be like you can only
reach me via satellite phone andeven then it's only via text
message, so you're only going toget to talk to dad through mom
reading text messages.
And I found this out after thewords.
(24:09):
But my oldest son went to mywife and goes is dad going to
die on this trip?
And I was like, oh, dude, likeI'm so sorry that, like that was
a thing that I put on you thatyou even had to consider,
because I'm just like gone doingmy thing that I love, but like,
yeah, that just like feeling sotorn in two places.
(24:30):
And you know, my wife was likeI didn't want to tell you that
before you left, but likeafterwards I thought it was
important for you to know that.
And it was like I didn't wantto tell you that before you left
, but like afterwards I thoughtit was important for you to know
that.
Speaker 1 (24:40):
And it's like, man, that I don't know that that
guilt ever goes away Likemanaging that, I think, is like
a constant ordeal for us.
Yeah, I can remember cominghome when I sort of broke my
back and I'd spoken to Ace onthe phone and sort of said, oh
look, I've broken my back.
And obviously he'd gone toschool and said, oh, my dad's
broken his back.
And I think maybe someone hadjust said, oh, so what is it?
You know, is your dad in thewheelchair now?
You know, like he didn't thinkthat I would get better.
(25:01):
I had back-to-back quiteserious injuries.
I had a compression fracture inmy L2 in my back.
That was out of action and Ithink the hardest thing for.
Both of the kids, but maybe morefor ace, who's a bit younger,
was I couldn't really play withhim, you know, like, like in the
things that he wanted to do,which was like football and
(25:21):
skateboarding at the time, and Iwas only surfing again for like
two months and then I rupturedall the ligaments in my knee and
then I was out of action foranother like six to eight months
.
So for two years ace saw me oncrutches and either bedridden or
not being able to do the thingsthat that we wanted to do or he
(25:42):
wanted to do with me, and yousort of think my guilt with him
was like I hope I just notputting him off sports.
You know, like dad's alwaysinjured, like he goes away and
comes back either on crutches orin, like his leg and plaster,
you know, like it was just likeanything can happen in life, you
know, and it does, you know, tomillions of people.
(26:04):
You know every day.
Speaker 2 (26:06):
It's hard too, I think, because you know, for
kids dad is Superman, so you'relike man Superman's going out
and breaking his back, and thisis like it's probably hard for
the kids.
Speaker 1 (26:17):
He's just at home.
He's always injured and he'salways like either like lying on
the sofa or hobbling around oncrutches.
So, you know and yeah, andobviously like his friends,
especially like the bat thingwas quite widespread on the
telly and like quite so I thinkat school like he was getting
(26:38):
probably a few more commentsthan any he would have usually
got.
Speaker 2 (26:42):
you know, especially we were not because I wanted him
on me like you know, I thinkwhen kids are young like that,
context is maybe missing.
But but I'm curious about thatspecific incident, you know, as
I remember learning about it,reading about it, you know.
Walk us through that moment ofwhat happened when you broke
your back, because I think it'sone thing to break your back on
land, but to break your back inthe ocean, at a place like
(27:04):
Nazare, that had to beterrifying.
So walk us through that moment.
Where were you, what washappening and how did it go down
?
Speaker 1 (27:12):
So, yeah, it was just Nazare in 2017.
And it was one of the biggestswells of the year Well,
actually, one of the biggestswells I've had in a long time.
It was one of those like all ornothing sort of days for me.
And I put it on the line,committed quite heavily to a
wave, and the way I read thewave was just wrong.
You know, when we look at thewave, it's like I definitely
(27:33):
surf it different.
Now I paid the price for that.
I fell and the wave hit me sohard it basically just crushed
me.
I knew instantly that I'd donesome serious damage.
The impact was on a differentlevel.
Then you have to go through thewhole situation, dealing with
(27:57):
other waves and jet ski rides.
I was fortunate to get to thebeach.
Um, I never at any pointthought I was going to drown or
I was just in a lot of pain, youknow.
And I did get to the beach andfrom that second it was all
handled very, veryprofessionally and very quick
and, um, you know, like I'vebeen a lifeguard for for seven
or eight years in the uk and Ibasically just told the boys
that I was pretty sure I'dbroken my back and they just did
(28:18):
a classic spinal takedown andthat was it.
I was in the hospital within anhour, I think, once I got to the
beach.
There was a bit of a languageproblem.
Obviously, we were in Portugaland I speak no Portuguese.
It wasn't until probably like48 hours later and I hadn't even
stood up.
I'd been lying down the wholetime.
(28:38):
I hadn't even like try to situp or anything like that, like I
just couldn't do that.
And the nurse came in and waslike okay, we're going to try
and get you to stand up today.
And they put this like bodybrace on me to sort of take the
weight of my spine.
And they did all this bodybrace up, this body brace up,
and actually Garrett was there.
Like Garrett was in the room.
The nurse sort of put the braceon and tried to sit me up on
(28:59):
the bed and for the life of me,like I couldn't.
I couldn't even put a foot onthe floor and it wasn't the fact
that I couldn't put a foot onthe floor, it was looking
Garrett's eye.
I could just see that.
It was the first time I've everever seen him even slightly
concerned, like he'd always been.
So like, are you be alright?
(29:19):
It's fine, you know.
And he looked it's the firsttime I've ever sort of seen like
a little bit of fear andconcern in his eyes and I was
like shit, like this is prettyfucking serious.
Like that day, that day Iactually didn't stand up.
The lady tried to get me up.
I was almost sick, I was likenauseous.
I actually didn't stand up.
The lady tried to get me up.
I was almost sick, I was likenauseous, I just couldn't do it.
And then they were like worriedoh, maybe he's got like a bad
(29:41):
concussion.
And then I went for brain scansand then the reality sort of
hit like oh, this isn't just alittle injury, this isn't just a
broken bone where you put it inplaster and you rest for a few
weeks and then you're back outon action.
You know like this is quiteserious.
Rehab for me is quite easybecause go to a program, you
just follow a program.
(30:01):
Right, if you do this, this andthis by this you're.
You're physically there.
I think that's where theathlete in me takes over,
because I love following thoseprograms and I love feel I'm
getting better and stronger.
But I think mentally, like thetrauma probably takes a lot
longer than we think to get overthat and I think that trauma
(30:23):
was probably hanging around fora good three, three, four years
you know, like and it's probablya little little bit still in
the back of my mind now like Ifeel like if I had like a really
bad injury now, like I feellike I don't know if I could go
through another year of you knowa year of rehab you never know
(30:44):
until you're faced with that.
But you know, that's the backof my mind sometimes, like if I
had to do another big injurylike that, like I don't know if
I could do it.
Speaker 2 (30:52):
The psychological part of that is enormous.
Yeah, as, as you mentioned, andeven even once you're back
which you've you didsuccessfully come back and surf
again.
It's always sort of there inthe back of your mind, I imagine
to, to feel like you know, Ireally I can't and don't want
this to to be a repeat of whathas already gone down.
Speaker 1 (31:11):
Yeah, what's already gone, or lucky.
You know, like you could sayfuck, I was like super lucky.
You know, like my back couldhave been way worse, my knee
could have been way worse and II had huge support, especially
the back injury.
Like I had so much support andlove from so many people that
(31:31):
I'd never met so many messagesand and I was like, yeah, it's
like whoa.
No, no way, like I can'tbelieve, like this it touched so
many people.
You know that they felt that thethe need to either email or
message or my family and friendsand and and even you know, my
sponsors.
You know everyone stood by andand supported me through through
(31:52):
those two years.
You know of bad injuries so andI was amazed because I didn't
think anyone would you know.
You know, like, uh, thanks forcoming, you know, like you did
well, but probably this is thisis it you know, and but they
didn't.
So I was.
I felt like I was really,really fortunate, you know, and,
and that motivates you to tocome back and and do it.
(32:15):
You know, show again like, showwhat's possible.
Speaker 2 (32:19):
Prove to yourself you know what you can put your body
through and survive and andalso still achieve what you want
to try and do, yeah, and it'samazing that, in that moment of
like fear and desperation, thatthat that love came from all
different sources people youknew, people you didn't,
sponsors, all the above.
(32:39):
So, yeah, that's awesome, youknow, I think, when, when you
think about all you've gonethrough and this might be a
really hard question to answer,so you can take a second if you
want to ponder it for a bit butwhen you think about the
injuries and the struggle oftrying to make it, as a
professional athlete, pursueyour goals and going through the
divorce and all the otherchallenges that you faced in
(33:00):
your life in the pursuit ofreally creating the life that
you want to live, and you thinkabout if you had to pass on one
or two lessons to your kids,knowing what you know from all
those experiences, like, what doyou think are the one or two
(33:20):
things that you'd really want tocommunicate to your kids that
you've taken away from buildingthis life that you've built?
Speaker 1 (33:27):
don't give up.
I've read something the otherday it's about knowing a good
time to walk away, you know, orto give up on something I don't
know if I really agree with thator not like I feel like there's
been so many times where I'vejust wanted to walk away from it
all and not give up on mysurfing dream or those goals
that I've been trying to achieve.
And sitting here right now, I'mso glad I didn't give up on my
(33:51):
surfing From leaving school.
I left school at 16 and wastold basically, surfing is not a
job, so you can't do it, sochoose something else on the
list.
That was my careers advisorfrom my secondary school.
It was like you can't be asurfer, it's not a job.
You have to either go tocollege or go to university and
(34:15):
you can choose these 100 jobs onthe list here.
Just choose one.
I don't want to do any of those.
Speaker 2 (34:20):
choose one I don't want to do any of those things.
I don't want to do any of thoselike and this is all you know
like.
Speaker 1 (34:26):
So I left school and started work straight away in a
surfboard factory and even thenI was like trying to compete and
and I was just so like in smallway of competition, surfing,
and and even though I neverreally got the results, I always
like, put, put my time in anddid my best.
You know, and and this is hardas being a dad, like kids have
very different personalities.
You know, like honey, who's theeldest, he's very driven and
(34:50):
very committed to everything shedoes, whether it's like school
or any sport.
She's a really keen rugbyplayer, but ace the younger one,
I like sometimes I just seemgiven up very quickly and I'm
like, mate, come on, like, yeah,yeah, of course you're gonna
fall, of course you're gonnahurt yourself, but don't let it
put you off, because I seesometimes them giving up very
quickly on on things that theyget into.
(35:13):
But maybe that's just kidsfinding their way of what they
their passion is.
But for me it's just like, yeah, don't give up?
Speaker 2 (35:20):
that's the million dollar question and often when
we explore is like how do weappropriately push our kids?
Speaker 1 (35:26):
so I used to do, um a surf club.
In my 20s I did a local surfclub.
I was very involved in it.
Um, I was obviously working inthe surf industry, um, working
at a surf shop and and at theweekends we used to do like club
contests and kid stuff and andI saw some really, really pushy
(35:47):
parents.
It kind of was like I justnever want to be like.
I can remember saying to myselflike when I'm a dad, like I
don't want to be that guy youknow like yeah, so it was always
.
It's always a hard onenavigating that.
So I've always like given themthe tools but never been too
cushy with that.
Yeah, but then sometimes I'mlike it's hard to know whether
(36:09):
you're doing the right thing,because they says I don't want
to go surfing, like it's coldand and like I'm just not
enjoying it.
Speaker 2 (36:14):
You're like well, if you're not enjoying it, don't do
it, mate like you know yeah butthat, yeah, or do you go?
Speaker 1 (36:20):
no, mate, you've got to go surfing today.
It's like you've got to go inthree times every week.
You know, you have, you knowlike, and it's the same with
swim club, he didn't, he doesn'tlike, he didn't like swimming.
But my, my thing was like okay,you don't want to do like squad
training, but you have to do atleast two sessions of swimming
every week and he hated it, hehates it.
But it's one thing that I sortof stood my ground on, like so
(36:42):
important to be good at swimming, so like I kind of forced him
on that one a little bit.
We, we pushed it for, I think,two years.
He's just gone back now he does.
Now he does one session swimtraining and he's taken up water
polo, but it's just like yeah,yeah, you know like you have to
do something, like no that wasmy one thing.
Speaker 2 (37:01):
Yeah, it's such a it's dude I.
I hear you on like the notwanting to be those dads.
Everyone knows what we'retalking about when we say those
dads and I think that, like I'm,I'm no expert and that's
actually one of the reasons Icreated the athlete dad is to
try to answer those questions,because I suck at this.
Like.
So who else has got this?
And I actually find for me it'slike is why I want them to do
(37:23):
this thing?
Is it rooted in something thatis secure?
Like those dads are doing thatbecause they are doing it
because of their owninsecurities, right, like they
didn't achieve the success theywanted.
Or like the kid's performanceis wrapped in their identity.
Like if my kid isn't the bestkid on the team, like it
reflects poorly on me, and likethat's all insecure bullshit,
(37:43):
right, and so it's like, am Ipushing them?
Because there's, there'ssomething, it's rooted in
something secure?
And I hear you on the swimming,because I'm like no, like
drowning is a real issue withkids.
Like you have to learn how toswim.
And like where we live's likerivers and lakes and pools.
Like swimming is like dude,you're going to die if you don't
know how to swim, and so it'slike and the litmus test I
(38:06):
always I got this from my wifeactually too, I guess not a
litmus test, but more of justlike a kind of a success
criteria is like don't let yourkids quit on bad days.
They're only allowed to quit ongood days.
It's like, okay, you had a shitday in the pool, you had a shit
day in surfing, like dude, thathappens.
But you're not allowed to quiton your bad days because that's
when you'll regret it and that'swhen you miss the benefits.
(38:27):
So if you have a great day andyou're like you know what, I
just don't want to keep doingswimming, I don't enjoy it it's
like cool, then you can, you'reallowed to quit.
So yeah, that those are twothings that I'm always trying to
like hold in my mind when I'mwhen I'm pushing.
Speaker 1 (38:39):
So yeah, it's good, but it is a.
It is a minefield of knowingreally how hard to push, Cause
the other thing would be likehoney's, like almost the
complete opposite.
She was a really good swimmerand she went, she did like loads
of sessions a week and then andthen she's got into rugby and
then and she started doing, yeah, more and more sessions and but
(39:03):
she really was wanted to do youknow I mean to do that like she
was very, very passionate aboutit, loved it um with both
sports, whereas ace, I feel likeoften he would happily just not
do anything like you reallyhave to, like you know, know,
like he'dhave to just sit and watch TV,
you know, or play on the Xbox,or you know, like, so it is like
(39:24):
it's a hard to get him out.
Sometimes it's hard to get himout of the house.
You know, like, yeah, come on,mate.
Like I don't, it's not verynice, it's like, come on, mate,
it can be a mission, you know,just to get them to the clubs.
Yeah, you don't want to be thepushy dad, but also you don't
want to when they are 18, 19, 20, like do them to go.
(39:49):
Why don't you just make me dothat Like.
You know, like you didn't pushme enough, like you should have
met.
You know, like, so it is a fineline, I feel it is a fine line
and it's and I and I'd love toknow, like when I, when you look
at like these super talented,really young kids, like the sky
(40:10):
Brown, you know like she'sextremely young but like super
talented in multi-sports.
Multi-sports skateboarding,surfing and I always wonder,
like how much is that from the,the talented child?
Or is it like how much has beennot forced?
But you know like how much hasbeen pushed by the adult?
You know the parents love toknow how they did it.
Speaker 2 (40:31):
Yeah, I, I, yeah.
I find myself asking that toobecause it's like you know, I
want my kids to also kind ofselfishly like, like what I like
, like I'd be great if they loveto ski and climb and do these
things.
So like there's also a degreeof like.
How much do I push them intothese specific things versus
like, letting it unfoldnaturally?
Speaker 1 (40:51):
I've come up with a, I've come up with a theory on
this and no matter what, nomatter what what I do, I'm never
going to be cool.
Yeah, like, yeah.
So I let that go very quickly.
Like I gave Ace and Honey likeboth like options of surfing and
skateboarding, and and I foundthat, um, they both got into
(41:16):
team sports, which is somethingI've never, I've never watched
on TV.
We've never had like any sportlike football or rugby on in the
house, never, never have, like,just don't watch it.
So Ace got into golf andfootball and and Honey's like
obsessed with rugby and and it'sall the things that I've never
even and I and it's just cause,like, like, what dad does isn't
(41:38):
cool.
It doesn't matter how cool youthink you are.
Speaker 2 (41:43):
Yes.
Speaker 1 (41:43):
It is never going to be cool and I kind of embrace
that because I always think aswell that that cross-training of
all these different sports itall feeds in and like, even for
me, like you know, the sportsthat I do now, I never thought
I'd be doing that when I was akid, you know, as a, as a job.
So, um, I kind of embrace that.
(42:04):
You know, I've enjoyed, I'veenjoyed many uh uh afternoon at
the driving range and things,things.
I, you know I've never reallyplayed golf in my life, getting
into it just because ace is intoit and um, and also taking
honey to the, to the rugby andand um, and learning, learning
(42:25):
about different, those differentsports, has been really fun
I'll tell you you're not alonein that of like there's.
Speaker 2 (42:30):
There's a lot of cool dads we've had on the, on the
podcast, and they're all lame inthe eyes of their own kids.
They're like oh dad is soboring, like.
It's such a funny dynamic oflike at home you're just, you're
just dad, and yeah, nothing youdo is cool, so it's it's, it's
reassuring it's just soembarrassing, please don't even
hold my hand or don't don't evenlike.
Speaker 1 (42:51):
Just like, and I can remember, like I knew must have
been about seven or eight, Icaught this wave.
It was like 2014 and uh, it hadlike huge exposure.
It was all the news andeverything and uh, and I was
feeling like pretty high andpretty cool and I got doing the
school run like about a weeklater after all this like global
(43:13):
press, press stuff and and I,yeah, I was on a big high and
and I come over picking Annie upand she's just like, please
don't even like, don't even walknext to me.
You're so embarrassing.
You know what I mean.
Like you're so embarrassing,you're like, don't even walk
next to me.
I'm like, really, am I that bad?
(43:33):
Like I've just surfed one ofthe biggest waves on the planet
and I'm embarrassing like whatlike nobody keeps you in check
like your own kid yeah, that'sawesome.
Speaker 2 (43:45):
Yeah it's.
I suppose it's a service to you.
Know, make sure that our egosdon't get too inflated.
You know, I don't know there's.
There's some benefit there, soyeah man for sure, awesome.
Well, andrew dude, thank you somuch for your time.
I really appreciate it.
I've loved hearing your stories, loved hearing all the lessons
and, you know, really excited tocontinue following along on the
journey.
Whatever that may be next foryou, uh, maybe we'll see if we
(44:07):
can coax you to do somemountaineering and some, maybe
some skiing on the way down, oryou'll you'll stick with surfing
, but yeah, I just want to saythanks again, man.
Speaker 1 (44:15):
I really appreciate the time today no, no, it's been
, it's been cool, it's been cool.
It's it's been a greatconversation.
I really actually it's made methink a lot about it and I think
that's really, that's reallypositive.
So, yeah, thank you.
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