October 29, 2024 • 51 mins
Josiah Middaugh (@josiahmiddaugh) is a multi-sport athlete of all seasons, though primarily an extremely accomplished professional triathlete competing in Xterra triathlons (off-road triathlons).
You'll discover Josiah's thoughtful strategies for integrating rigorous training schedules with his roles as a husband and father, all while maintaining peak performance.
Josiah opens up about his unique upbringing in a northern Michigan commune, where a close-knit community and outdoor adventures laid the foundation for his love of sports. He shares personal stories of growing up with athletic parents and the significant impact of his wife's unwavering support as we journey through Josiah’s path from amateur enthusiast to professional athlete.
Discover why he champions the benefits of sport sampling over early specialization, encouraging children to explore diverse athletic opportunities. Josiah’s experiences as both a coach and father shed light on the joy of shared athletic adventures, emphasizing the importance of raising well-rounded individuals who find their passion organically. Tune in for an inspiring discussion filled with actionable insights for balancing ambitious pursuits in both sports and parenting.
Episode Resources:
The Athlete Dad Resources:
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
I think it's okay to strive for balance, but I think
that the truth for an eliteathlete or somebody who's trying
to reach 100% of theirpotential in a given domain, I
think that balance has to beredefined a little bit and I
(00:21):
think it's okay to not beperfectly balanced, as long as
your priorities are in line and,like I said, having priority
one as family and then for me.
A lot of times that performancedid have to play second fiddle
a little bit, but I tried to doeverything possible that I could
(00:42):
with that time, the time that Iwas allotted, tried to do
everything possible that I couldwith that time, the time that I
was allotted.
Speaker 2 (00:52):
Welcome to the Athlete Dad Podcast, where we
explore the intersection ofphysical pursuits and fatherhood
.
I'm your host, ben Gibson, andeach episode we'll dive deep
into topics like modeling,ambition, achieving balance and
intentional integration aroundathletic passions and parenting.
If you're seeking to accomplishyour goals as an athlete while
crushing it as a parent, thenyou've come to the right place.
What's up everybody?
(01:21):
It's great to be back, took abit of a break to focus on my
work, got to pay the bills, myfamily playing outdoors, all
kinds of things.
I think really, what I'm tryingto do is I'm trying to focus on
creating some space so I canfigure out what kinds of things
I want to do next in manyaspects of my life.
(01:43):
And one thing for sure is afocus of mine is growing this
amazing show and this amazingcommunity that is the Athlete
Dad.
I am excited more excited thanI probably ever have about what
we're working on in the podcastand committed to this mission to
help ambitious dads pursuetheir passions in a healthy way,
(02:06):
by finding a balance betweentheir pursuits and their
families and uncovering ways tointegrate the people that they
love into the things that theylove.
And I've been spending a lot oftime writing and thinking and
planning and as I'm doing this,one word kept coming to mind,
and that word is intentional.
And as I'm doing this, one wordkept coming to mind and that
word is intentional.
You know, really, thisoverarching theme about why I'm
(02:29):
doing what I'm doing is that Iwant to squeeze every ounce of
goodness out of my lifeexperiences.
So I have to be reallyintentional about how I first
prioritize the things in my lifewhat are the most important
things to me and then to how Iapproach those things in my life
so that I can create the life,the experience that I want for
(02:51):
myself and for my family.
And that is why I'm so excitedabout my next guest on the show,
because intentional is also aword that kept coming up during
our conversation is also a wordthat kept coming up during our
conversation, and it is hislevel of thoughtfulness and
intentionality that has shapedhim into the amazing human that
(03:12):
he is today.
Today, I have the pleasure ofspeaking with legendary
multi-sport athlete JosiahMiddaw.
Now I will say this before Iget into his accomplishments it
is not often that you are sogood at your sport, that you are
in the Hall of Fame for yoursport while you are still
competing, but that is the casefor Josiah.
(03:34):
Josiah is a multi-sport athleteof all seasons, but he's
primarily an extremelyaccomplished professional
triathlete competing in theXTERRA triathlon series.
So these are off-roadtriathlons and if you haven't
heard of this, I hadn't heard ofthis until I met with Josiah
and they are awesome.
So an off-road triathlon.
(03:54):
Basically, what it does is,instead of a road bike, it's a
mountain bike, so it's moreextreme terrain.
Instead of road running, it'strail running and, of course, an
open water swim.
Now Josiah has competed 21times in the XTERRA World
Championships, winning the WorldChampionship in 2015.
And he has been a top 10finisher 16 times.
(04:17):
He's a 15-time XTERRA USNational Champion, a four-time
Fat Bike World Champion, asix-time national snowshoe
champion, and he's competed inthe Eco Challenge in Fiji.
Basically, if there's a commonversion of a sport, josiah seeks
out the version that's wayharder and then does that
(04:38):
instead.
Most importantly, josiah is ahusband.
He is a father of three.
He is a family man.
His sons, porter and Sullivan,are also, by the way, very
talented and successful athletes, and we'll talk about how he
thinks about raising successfulhumans, not just raising
successful athletes.
Josiah also runs a coachingbusiness, midog Coaching, where
(05:01):
they deliver personalized,scientifically based,
results-driven programs forendurance athletes of every
level, and we'll make sure toinclude how you can get
connected to his coachingbusiness after the show and in
the show notes.
But in this conversation withJosiah, we talk about his
journey to becoming aprofessional athlete, which is,
I think, a really cool part ofan athlete's life is how did
(05:22):
they go from amateur to pro?
We talk about his approach tocoaching or not coaching his own
kids and how he's balancingbeing a family man and an
athlete, especially and Ithought this was interesting
while competing against manyother athletes who were
themselves single with no kids,and we get into so many other
great perspectives on life andfatherhood and pursuing your
(05:42):
goals.
You're going to love this one.
So please enjoy listening to myconversation with the amazing
Josiah Mida.
Josiah, thanks so much fortaking time out of your very
busy week as an athlete and as adad to chat about the Athlete
Dad today.
I know we've been trying tochat for a while, but you know
(06:05):
you you're an athlete that hasyour hands in a lot of different
sports and three kids and youknow, full-time coaching company
and husband.
So unsurprisingly you're you'rea very busy guy, so really just
want to say thanks for fortaking time to chat today.
Speaker 1 (06:20):
You betcha?
Yeah, thanks for having me on,looking forward to it.
Speaker 2 (06:28):
Awesome.
I think you know, as Imentioned, you're a multi-sport
athlete.
I think it'd be really helpfulto set the context for a little
bit more about your life, and soI'm curious what does life as
dad, husband look like for you?
And then, if you could help usunderstand, when we say
multi-sport athlete, what doesthat mean for you?
Speaker 1 (06:46):
multi-sport athlete.
Like what does that mean foryou?
Yeah, so I have been aprofessional track for over 20
years now.
I think I got my my pro card in2003, so yeah 2024, um and I,
so I have three kids.
When I graduated college met, mywife moved out to Colorado all
in the course of a week and wejust we started this life here
(07:09):
and I really got into themountain lifestyle, got into the
endurance sports, and my ruleat first was I could only pick
up one sport per year, butpretty soon I found myself
really gravitating towardsoff-road triathlons.
So XTERRA triathlon has been mybig focus throughout my career
(07:32):
and my kids kind of grew upalongside that.
I said I got my pro card in2003.
My first child was born in 2004.
So that's Sullivan, and he isnow 19.
Then I have a son, porter, 18,and a daughter, larson, who's 13
.
So they've kind of grown upalongside everything that I've
(07:53):
done and it's just been part oftheir lifestyle.
Luckily I have a veryunderstanding wife.
She was a collegiate runner aswell.
We both graduated from CentralMichigan as collegiate runners
and so she kind of understandsmy tics and quirks and puts up
with it a lot and alsounderstands a lot of my identity
(08:14):
, is kind of wrapped up in theseendurance sports that I do, and
so she's always supported methrough that, which has been
100% the key.
Speaker 2 (08:27):
I definitely hear you on the supportive spouse side,
especially for enduranceathletes.
Just the amount of time that ittakes.
You know there's no likeshortcut to being a great
endurance runner.
It really just takes hours onthe road.
So, yeah, that's, that's suchan important part of even just
having the capacity to be ableto go and do these things.
(08:47):
And man, what a whirlwind.
Move to Colorado.
What was it for you?
Why the decision to move to themountain town?
Were you already interested inmountain sports or was that
something that really blossomedafter you moved there?
Speaker 1 (09:03):
I would just say I was curious, but I had never
even been to Colorado.
So I had an internship lined upand back in 1999, there was
probably 15 postings ofinternships on the internet and
I applied to like one in SantaCruz, one in Arizona, one in
(09:24):
Colorado and just so happened tobe in Vail.
I remember looking at a map andbeing like, oh wow, vail Pass,
like someday I'm going to try toride my bike up Vail Pass, you
know, just like really funny,funny things.
But I always had thatattraction to the mountains and
Ingrid, my wife, was on boardand we moved out to Vail and we
(09:46):
were just going to stay for thesummer.
Try to make it work.
I had a 12-week internship andwe stayed for the summer and we
said, oh man, well, we have toexperience winter, because
that's what Vail, colorado, wasall about the snow sports and we
fell in love with the summer,which is kind of opposite of
most people.
They move there for the winterand fall in love with the summer
(10:08):
.
But we experienced summer firstand then had to experience
winter and it just kind of all Idon't know if I'd say fell in
place, but it was just too muchfun to leave.
Speaker 2 (10:21):
Yeah, I hear that, and it is an interesting thing
about mountain townsspecifically is the amount of
stuff you can get into.
Like, in realizing, in movingto bend, I realized it's going
to take me like four years justto acquire all the toys that I
need to like hang out witheverybody, because as soon as
(10:41):
one season's, you know thepeople do things in the shoulder
season and then it's like a newmain season and so, um, yeah, I
, I absolutely love that aspectof it to where.
You know, I lived in San Diegofor a bit and I hated surfing in
the winter time.
It was just such a bummer andso cold and uh, so I was just
always waiting for summer.
And then mountain towns, yeah,to your point it's.
(11:02):
You know, every, every seasonhas a thing and you can get into
a lot of different things and Ithink that leads to a really
exciting lifestyle.
And so when you think aboutmulti-sport, like you know, you
are uh, you're, you're running,you're snowshoeing, you're
biking, but even within thesedisciplines there are like
specificities.
Like you do the fat bike racing, so, like, what are all the uh
(11:27):
sports or endeavors that you door have done?
Um, and and then I also lovetoo.
Uh, I was just watching you do.
You did a a quadathlon, am Isaying that right?
quadrathlon, quadrathlon, thereyou go there's a right way to
say it.
Yeah, so it's not even justthat you're doing all these
great sports, but I love thatthere just seems to be every
(11:48):
different combination of thesetypes of sports.
So can you help us understand,like, what are all the things
that you do get into?
Speaker 1 (11:56):
Yeah, I would say that I would try anything
related to endurance related toendurance.
So when I, when I first movedhere, my background was running,
I picked up mountain biking.
You know, bought a mountain bikefrom the pawn shop and
immediately started racing it.
You know, did a hundred milemountain bike race a couple of
weeks after buying a mountainbike with zero skills, didn't
(12:20):
even know you had to put lube onthe chain.
So a lot of my experiencesinitially were very, very
humbling.
And then I just with themountain lifestyle, like you
said, you know, all of these funrecreational sports, well, they
do require some skill, like themountain biking.
I even got into kayaking for alittle while because we had the
(12:41):
GoPro mountain games and I woulddo several events and it was
your combined time.
It'd be a road bike hill climb,a mountain bike, a trail run
and a down river kayak.
And then I also dabbled withadventure racing for a while.
I raced the Eco Challenge justa couple of years ago, in 2019.
(13:01):
And that years before that Iwould, I would go over to France
, to China, new Zealand, doadventure racing there, and that
was that combined a lot ofsports, but usually it was trail
running, it was something onthe water, usually some type of
kayaking, mountain biking, andthen there was some always some
(13:22):
rope.
But again, I was always gamefor anything, endurance, and
eventually I picked up thingslike Nordic skiing.
This weekend I'm doing the USATriathlon Winter National
Championship, so that is runningon snow, fat biking and
cross-country skiing, so skateskiing.
(13:43):
That's awesome so yeah, a lot ofdifferent things that I've done
, but again, my main focusthroughout my career was the
XTERRA triathlon.
So swimming, mountain biking,trail running and what I found
for myself personally that themore sports that I can combine
the better.
(14:04):
So I was explaining to one ofmy kids actually that, like this
quadathlon that I did, I'm notthe very best uphill biker, but
there's not very many bikersthat can outclimb me but could
also outrun me.
Same thing with trail running.
(14:25):
Like I can get in a race, youknow, with guys that are on the,
the national trail running team, and I can hold my own pretty
well, but I'm not going to win,you know, a world caliber or
national caliber event withtrail runners, but I can't think
of any of those trail runnersahead of me that could beat me
in a mountain bike race.
So when you combine some ofthese things, then I usually um
(14:49):
come out on top in most things.
Speaker 2 (14:51):
Yeah, that's a great way to look at it.
Yeah, where are your strengths?
And you know, where do I, wheredo I need to make up some
ground?
And, um, I even love how yousaid a lot of your.
Your first experiences in thesesports was a very humbling one,
and yet you really you keptgoing Like, do you do you feel
like that has been somethingthat has always been a part of
(15:12):
how you have thought about theseendeavors of like I might get
rocked the first time, but likenow I'm curious, okay, like what
can I get good at this?
Or like where, where do youfeel like that started for you,
and how do you keep thatmentality top of mind when
things are tough?
Speaker 1 (15:28):
Yeah, I definitely have had that mentality my whole
life and I kind of attribute tonot having a lot of really
early success.
I always considered myself alate bloomer and so I knew that
there was a lot of work that Ihad to put into something to get
good at it, and sometimes myexpectations would exceed
(15:49):
reality.
And that's when it would bevery humbling, and usually it
was when I was really proficientin one thing and thought I
could just transfer over and bereally good at another thing and
then just get completelyhumbled by that.
But for me it was always verymotivating.
And after I won the XTERRAWorld Championship I started to
really look back and reflect.
(16:13):
And you know why am I still inthe sport, why did it take me so
long to get to the top and whydidn't I quit 15 years ago, 20
years ago?
And part of it is that failurebeing a part of success, being
along the same path of successand not something that's
opposite of success.
And I think way too many peoplethey experience those failures
(16:40):
and they immediately give up onsomething and they only want to
do something that they havenatural inclination for,
something that they show earlypromise or talent in and they
shy away from anything thatthey're not good at, not
challenged.
And whenever I've had thosereally humbling experiences,
it's been very motivating for mebecause I said, oh wow, like I
(17:01):
had no idea that I was going tobe 15 minutes behind in this
50-mile bike race or whatever itis.
Let me see, what are those guysdoing?
Why are they so much betterthan me?
What could I do in training?
What skills could I acquire tobe better at this?
It's been very motivating forme.
Speaker 2 (17:20):
I love that and I think this is one of the most
important things that I hope toinstill in my own kids.
And I'm always so curious whensomebody thinks this way of like
how did that start for you?
Like, where did that originate?
Do you feel like it was innate?
Was it something that wasinstilled by your parents,
(17:42):
father figures?
So I do want to take a stepback because it sounds like you
did have a very uniqueupbringing.
So I'm curious tell us aboutyour childhood in Michigan and
really the unique circumstancesaround that.
And then I'm curious how do youthink your childhood and
whether there were influencesfrom parents or just sort of
(18:03):
innately, the experiences youhad shaped that mindset as you
grew?
Speaker 1 (18:09):
Yeah, so I grew up in northern Michigan and the
community that I was in wasbasically a hippie commune that
I grew up in, and it was a bunchof like-minded people that all
kind of went in and bought theseplots of land in northern
Michigan.
(18:30):
It was part of the old Bohemiansettlement, and so this farmer
had divided up his land and somy parents I think they, you
know bought 20 acres for tenthousand dollars.
You know, wow, that's awesome,it sounds great and, you know,
even had to take out a loan todo it, right, uh, which is the
(18:50):
funny part, um, but I remembermy whole childhood having work
bees to work on somebody's house.
We had a community building.
We even tried our own schoolfor a while.
Speaker 2 (19:03):
And.
Speaker 1 (19:04):
I mean I wouldn't say it was a failed project.
But just as kids grew up andgot older, the community wasn't
as cohesive as it was when I wasyounger.
But you know amazing memoriesGrowing up with very little, a
very simple lifestyle.
We had a dirt floor for a while.
(19:24):
We had outdoor plumbing forseveral years, an outdoor toilet
for quite a while, probablyuntil I was 11 or 12, something
like that.
So a very different upbringing,but it definitely shaped my
work ethic because that was abig part of living.
(19:44):
That simply was going out andchopping wood and hauling wood
and doing a lot of things withwood.
Speaker 2 (19:51):
Yeah, especially the natural bohemian state that you
found yourself wood.
Yeah, yeah, especially the the,the natural bohemian state that
you found yourself in.
That's, that's great.
And I, I also think, uh, youknow, I love that.
You know a lot of the hard workjust became a standard
expectation of like how we live.
We we are all contributing tothis community.
If we need something, we've gotto do it ourselves.
(20:12):
All contributing to thiscommunity.
If we need something, we've gotto do it ourselves.
Sounds like you were workingquite a bit as a kid, Did you as
a kid?
What was your mindset when youwere a kid?
Did you hate it?
Were you just like oh, it'sjust what it is?
Did you see benefit in it?
What was that like for youearlier on?
Speaker 1 (20:28):
I would say I didn't really know any differently.
So my dad was a self-employedcarpenter and always just worked
for himself or partnered withone other person, so it wasn't
like he was project managermanaging a crew of people.
It was very simple.
I mean he did.
I mean he this is going tosound like Amish or something
(20:50):
but he didn't use air compressor.
You know, he would roof housesby hand and I would.
You know, the first workexperience I had was, you know,
working with him on roofs and Iactually ended up building a
house with him when I was incollege, which was a really fun,
rewarding experience.
But step back with the like howit kind of related to athletics
(21:15):
.
My dad was a really goodathlete and more team sports,
amazing football player,wrestler, and it was kind of
funny because on the when we'dhave all these get togethers,
they were trying to teach more.
The new thing was these newgames that were cooperative, you
know, and you know it wouldtake the competition part out of
(21:37):
it, but my brothers and I werejust like cutthroat competitive
with everything and I think mydad did kind of realize, because
that was his mentality too umthat hey, you know, maybe we
should nurture thiscompetitiveness a little bit and
eventually we end up going to apublic school and, uh, got
(21:58):
really into just you know, thethe traditional school sports
and really competitive witheverything and it did help that
I had a.
Well, I was middle, so I had anolder brother, younger brother.
My older brother was less thantwo years older than me, one
grade ahead, and he was theoutstanding athlete good at
everything, and I had just hadto scrap and work for everything
(22:21):
that I had yeah, that's amazing, and I I hear you on the the
competitive boy side.
Speaker 2 (22:26):
I grew up with two brothers, I have two boys and
I've I've really learned it'sthere's no like tamping stuff
down, it's just can I channelthis into something?
Because there's just energypouring out of them.
And I'm sure it was the samewhen I was a kid and we were
wreaking, wreaking havoc allover, all over the house and I
(22:47):
I'd love to know, like what arethe things that you feel like
your dad did, whether againdirectly as an athlete, helping
you be an athlete, or justgenerally, that really kind of
like spurred that interest inathletics yourself?
Speaker 1 (23:02):
Yeah, I would say the biggest thing.
When he I think he was 42 yearsold he started running to lose
weight and I started runningwith him.
Basically I think I was 10 or11 years old and I would go, you
know, not these big treks orjaunts, but I'd run two miles,
three miles with him and he kindof realized I didn't have the
(23:23):
same type of skills.
My older brother was morestrength, speed, power.
You know he was the footballplayer sprinter in track and I
was very different.
I was a lot slower.
I think he scratched his head alittle bit but he said well,
maybe you might be good at thislong distance running thing and
(23:44):
so he started running with meand I think that was.
That was kind of unique.
I mean, if you weren'texcelling in football,
basketball or baseball thenthere wasn't.
You know, in some of thosesmall towns you're not even
considered an athlete.
So I ran cross country.
We had kind of a ragtag team,so I didn't have a whole lot of
(24:07):
early success.
Like you can see, the themehere, but eventually just kept
working really hard and wentthrough a lot of growing pains
as a kid and finally had somesuccess, really by my junior
senior year of high school.
Speaker 2 (24:24):
It's impressive to stick around and continue to do
it for that long.
I love the idea of hearing howathletes were influenced when
they were growing up by theirown fathers and then how that
translates to their kids thissort of like multi-generational
influence of positive traitsthat come from being an athlete.
(24:45):
And so I don't think it's it's.
I feel like it's uncommon forsomeone to not see that success
and yet to keep going.
You'd mentioned that it was.
It's motivating for you.
Now, had it always beenmotivating, or were there
influences like your dad orcoaches, or or just intrinsic
motivation to just keep going?
Speaker 1 (25:05):
Yeah, I would.
I would say all of the above.
Um, I think I just started withreally small goals and I I
never had a goal of.
You know, some of these kidsthink they're good, they want to
be a professional athlete, theywant to be in the Olympics.
I just wanted to, you know,make the varsity team to then,
(25:30):
okay, I want to be one of thebest in the conference.
I want them to be one of thebest in the conference.
I want to be one of the best inthe region, one of the best in
the state, and it just wasreally incremental goals all the
way through that's awesome andmakes a lot of sense.
Speaker 2 (25:44):
I think, uh, you know , I certainly felt it as a kid
and I guess even as an adult too.
But, um, when my goals are toofar out in front of me, and how
that can definitely be ademotivator to just feel like
defeated I'm so far, I don'tbelong.
You know this isn't.
These people are just waybetter than I am and I'm not
(26:06):
playing in my level.
And you mentioned, you know,okay, so transitioning to kind
of moving into being aprofessional athlete.
You know you mentioned thesesmall goals trying to
incrementally improve it.
Like, when did the switch flipfor you where you were like I'm
good enough to be a professionalathlete, I want to be a
professional athlete?
(26:27):
Like when did you make thatshift?
Speaker 1 (26:30):
So the very first XTERRA race that I ever did was
in Keystone, colorado, and it'sall set above 9,000 feet, and in
the swim I had a panic attackand a horrible experience.
Way behind Again, new to themountain bike jumped on my
mountain bike from the pawn shopyou know it's pretty horrible
Technically crashed a bunch oftimes.
(26:51):
The very next year I improvedmy time by about 45 minutes and
I could see that I was kind ofon that, that tail end of the
pro field, and so I ended upgetting my pro license the
following year and then I thinkit was 2004 that I won the race.
It was the mountainchampionship and it was a big
international field.
(27:11):
The prize money was pretty goodnext year at that time and so
then I kind of started tobelieve, I guess, that I could
compete with some of these guysthat were the best in the world.
Now it was a lot easiercompeting kind of my my home
turf at high altitude inColorado, so it took me a little
bit longer to really excel onthat world stage at the world
(27:34):
championship, which was alwaysin Maui, hawaii, for 20 some
years.
Speaker 2 (27:39):
Yeah, the first race.
I can't even imagine a panicattack in the water and maybe
not having the bike that youwanted.
But yeah, you kept going, youkept pressing.
And it's interesting toobecause it sounds like you had a
career outside of athletics atthat point.
Was there a point where youwere able to kind of flip that
(28:01):
switch and be like I'm going tobasically focus exclusively on
my, my athlete career, or haveyou always had kind of a career
outside of athletics?
Speaker 1 (28:17):
outside of athletics.
Yeah, so, interestingly, Inever, in some ways I never went
all in on being a professionalathlete, because I always worked
.
So I worked as a personaltrainer, worked as a coach,
pretty much my entireprofessional career.
And so I, you know, it wasn'tthat I wasn't 100% dedicated to
it, but I just with theresponsibilities of being a
(28:38):
parent, the, you know, the prizemoney was such and the
sponsorship was such that atdifferent times in my career
they might have made up a biggerpercentage, but to live in Vail
, Colorado, to pay the mortgageI was going to have to hustle in
other ways.
And so I pretty much, you know,worked pretty close to full
(28:59):
time my entire racing career.
Speaker 2 (29:02):
And that's incredible .
I think that just makes it, Imean that much more impressive.
So you're, you know you're anew dad, you're working and
you're trying to pursue being aprofessional athlete I'm sure
that there was like a lot oflike, much like the athletic
side, a lot of humblingexperiences.
Can you paint a picture for usaround maybe even those early
(29:24):
years of being a dad, like howdid you balance it all?
And like maybe what were someof the more tougher lessons that
you learned along the way?
Speaker 1 (29:34):
Well, I did have to approach it a lot differently
than a lot of my competitionbecause I was at the time on the
circuit, I was the only fatheron the circuit and I just didn't
have the luxury and most of mycompetition at least on the
world stage they were 100%professional athletes.
(29:56):
They approached it veryprofessionally, some even had
some government funding.
A lot of them had beenOlympians before getting into
XTERRA, so I couldn't train thesame number of hours as
everybody else and I kind ofrealized that early on, and so I
had a very different approach.
(30:17):
It was maybe almost a littlebit more serious, because I
couldn't wait for the perfectweather window.
I had to get up at 5 am, I hadto do my work, workouts, do my
work, be there for family, andjust trying to prioritize
everything with you know familyfirst, training and racing
(30:38):
second and probably job third,but at different times those
things shuffled around a littlebit, but always trying to
prioritize family as as the veryfirst thing, and part of that
was providing for my family, andso I couldn't just go all in on
racing.
Speaker 2 (30:57):
Yeah.
Can you think of a time whereyou know I think you had
something you know really reallyvaluable around the idea of
balance Like I don't think weever actually attain balance,
but it's really more aboutpriorities and sacrifices.
Can you tell us about a timewhen things were very out of
balance and maybe you felt likethere were too many sacrifices
(31:20):
and then like, how do you thinkabout that idea of balance now
today?
Speaker 1 (31:25):
Yeah, I think that I think it's okay to strive for
balance, but I think that thetruth, for an elite athlete or
somebody who's trying to reach100 of their potential in a
given domain, I think thatbalance has to be redefined a
(31:47):
little bit and I I think it'sokay to not be perfectly
balanced as long as yourpriorities are in line and, like
I said, having priority one asfamily and then for me.
A lot of times that performancedid have to play second fiddle
a little bit, but I tried to doeverything possible that I could
(32:11):
with the time that I wasallotted.
So, again, I wasn't training 25, 30 hours a week like in my
competition.
Sometimes I was training 10 to12 hours, sometimes 15, 18 hours
a week, but I was making themost out of the hours that I had
.
(32:32):
It was kind of interesting whenI, my kids, were still young, I
had my fifth knee surgery and mydaughter was about to be born.
I ended up going back andgetting my master's degree.
And what I approached mymaster's degree, you know,
partly not knowing what myfuture was going to hold, but I
(32:55):
wanted to to really define somethings for myself, and so
everything that I did for mymaster's degree was pouring over
the research on enduranceperformance, and part of that
was for my coaching business,but it was also to see how could
I really optimize this timethat I have available?
And so that was in 2010 that Iwent back to school, 2012, I was
(33:20):
really applying those conceptsto my athletes, but also myself,
and then it was 2015 when I wonthe world championship.
So it was a very scientific,very disciplined approach that I
had to take, which for somepeople might sound like not a
lot of fun, but I kind of had tohave that more of a work-like
(33:41):
mentality to my training at thattime.
Speaker 2 (33:44):
I mean, that's a.
It makes a lot of sense thatyou would, you would uh,
approach it that way and thatyou kind of have to approach it
that way, right, given theconstraints.
You're like I've got to windifferently or I've got to
really lean into my strengths.
I think, much like you weresaying originally about the
races and you know, hey, I maynot be the best at this part of
it, but I'm going to catch youon this part of it.
And so, looking at your ownlife, you're like, how do I
(34:08):
leverage what I do well, whichseems to be really around the
educational piece, the kind ofthoughtful iterations and
experimentations piece, to beable to make the most and play
catch up in these other areas.
So, yeah, it seems to be areally strong approach and a
really really great theme, andit seems like it's really
(34:30):
translated well in how you'vealso seemed to show up as dad
and run a successful business.
And this is an area that I'm'magain very curious to hear your
perspective on, which is aroundhow you as a professional
athlete, as an elite athlete,show up with your own kids.
So your, your kids, are verysuccessful athletes and I think,
(34:53):
um, your oldest is, is, I think, on pace to probably beat all
of dad's records andaccomplishments, which is like
it's so cool to see.
I think that really, especiallywithin your own sport, has got
to feel really cool.
So I'm curious what is yourperspective when it comes to
(35:15):
raising successful athletic kidsor just raising successful kids
, and how has that evolved overthe years to maybe suit what,
how you think about it today?
Speaker 1 (35:29):
Yeah, it's interesting.
I was a very late bloomer andmy wife was kind of the opposite
.
So the joke that we have in ourfamily is that she was the one
on athletic scholarship incollege and I was on academic
scholarship and so she's goingto take any credit for any
(35:50):
genetic gifts that my kids mighthave.
You know, some some people inthe in the scientific community
know or, uh, is that themitochondria?
That is really the powerhouseof the cell?
That the RNA from themitochondria actually only is
(36:10):
passed down from the mother.
So that just proves that anyother success is is going to be
from her.
Speaker 2 (36:19):
That's a smart play, either way is, it was all my
wife.
She's the reason, yeah, butthat's interesting to know on a
on a cellular level, that, uh,we can directly attribute that
to it.
Speaker 1 (36:29):
So yeah, but my, my kids, I really I was really more
focused on being there as aparent, being supportive as a
parent and coaching them to.
You know, making childchampions was not a focus at all
and I didn't ever want toassume that the path that I had
(36:53):
kind of carved out for myselfwas something that they would
want or that was best for them,and so that was not my, my
intent or my wife's intent atall.
We wanted to have, you know,well-rounded kids, but again, I
was modeling behavior.
We were going to races.
A lot of their structured playwas actually mimicking racing.
(37:19):
You know they were alwaysracing each other, they're
setting up obstacle coursesrunning through them, and so
they definitely gravitated totowards those things and, you
know, did have some pretty earlysuccess.
But again, we we actually,instead of doubling down on that
, we kind of steered away fromit a little bit because we
(37:41):
didn't want to just set up thesewinning opportunities for our
kids and have have theseexpectations that were so high
and with one of my kids that wecould, we recognize that that
was kind of a problem.
That was kind of a problem.
(38:04):
When he would win something, hewould have that expectation
that he thought there were theseexternal expectations that he
had to win the next time and heactually did better and actually
a more competitive environmentwhere he wasn't expected to win,
where he might finish 20th or30th or 67th, um, so that was
kind of interesting.
Speaker 2 (38:27):
Hmm, that is interesting and it is, um, I
think, as a, I certainly feltthose pressures as a kid myself,
and they were not anything thatwas communicated by my parents,
but it's just something thatsort of like, I think, just came
up with myself for whateverreason.
I think it's natural, but howdid you uncover that?
That was the case, like youknow, you weren't pressing them,
but I'm curious where they're,like introspective conversations
(38:49):
that you would still have justto try to get into, maybe the
mental aspect of it, like howdid how did you uncover?
Speaker 1 (38:53):
that I mean, it was just pretty evident um that one
of my boys was just ultracompetitive in everything that
he did and it was funny.
There was a little jog-a-thonin school and him and his
brother had the record for thenumber of laps when they were in
first grade and this was a K-8school all the way through
(39:17):
eighth grade.
And so then he had all thispressure to perform and he
started getting nervous aboutthe jog-a-thon Like this is
ridiculous, we're not going tobe nervous about that.
And so I really steered awayfrom coaching and pushing my
kids.
I didn't want to have that.
I just didn't want to have thattype of relationship where I
(39:38):
was their coach.
And again, I'm not saying thatthere's one right way to do it.
I think there's times when it isgreat to step in and do some
coaching, especially if there'sa lack of that in your community
.
If you want to start a newprogram, I mean we did start a
cross-country team at the middleschool, but it was two days a
(39:59):
week.
They were running maybe twomiles tops, um, so pretty.
We tried to keep things prettylow-key and we tried to have
them sample a variety ofdifferent sports and just see
where their interests lied and,you know, also have that social
component to it and not feellike they had to have this
(40:20):
identity that was the same astheir, their dads and I.
I, I think that can become kindof toxic.
Speaker 2 (40:26):
Sure, well, it's just so interesting that it it just
kind of naturally, you know,played out that way, cause you
certainly see it sometimes whereit's it's.
You know that that the childwas destined from birth to like
do that sport because of howtheir dad or their parents were
was going to approach it Likethat the child didn't really
have a choice, like they weregoing to follow suit.
(40:47):
But I love the approach thatyou have where it's very much
like this deliberate hands-off,I'll step in when it makes sense
.
But like I want to be clearabout the dynamic that I want to
have.
And yet your kids are verysuccessful.
So I wonder how much of that wasdue to other I guess you know
we can attribute it to otherfactors.
(41:08):
So I'm curious, like what arethose other factors?
And it sounds like the exposureto you being an athlete, to
your wife being an athlete,probably was a big part of it.
And whether you were directlycoaching or not, just the fact
that they got to see you prepareand race and take it seriously
and, um, you know, all thatdefinitely influenced it.
When you think back around thataspect of it, just the exposure
(41:31):
, you know they were travelingwith you Like, how do you think
that that ended up shaping themin such a way to where they
still got?
They still became successfulathletes despite you?
You, you're not, I guess notdespite, but like even though
you were not my best effortsdespite your best efforts to
keep yes, exactly Right.
Speaker 1 (41:51):
Yeah, but if I could just have, you know, a doctor in
the house or something likethat.
Speaker 2 (41:55):
I know not one single lawyer in the house Like what
is going on here.
Speaker 1 (42:01):
No, I mean, I super proud of every accomplishment
they have, but I get, since Iwas such a late bloomer, I
didn't.
I never, just I just neverwanted those expectations of you
know you need to have thisperformance, that is, you know
best in the state or best in thecountry or whatever it is, and
and just be chasing, chasingthese arbitrary goals.
(42:24):
That just wasn't something thatwe wanted.
But they, they kind of foundtheir own path and just knowing
that, the work that I put in andhow long it took me to reach
that level, I I know thatthere's a lot of struggle and
they're going to have to wantthat for themselves.
(42:46):
That intrinsic motivation youasked like what are the
ingredients?
Intrinsic motivation isprobably number one.
The thing that you can provideas parents is opportunity and,
in some cases, direction.
I really like that direction tocome from other places, because
(43:09):
any parent knows that your kidquite often listens to other
adults better than they listento you.
So that direction from otherplaces.
And then the other part istalent, and that's something
that you can't change Right, andso the hard, the hard work is
(43:30):
what's going to make thedifference.
The opportunity is going to bea part of it.
But that innate talent issomething that I've always kind
of downplayed because that'ssomething that you can't change.
And then the difference,especially endurance sports.
It really that talent only getsyou in the door.
(43:50):
And then it's what are yougoing to do with that talent?
That's going to make adifference and nobody can put a
limit on on how far you can gowith that.
Love.
Speaker 2 (43:59):
That that's awesome and I love yeah, how far you can
go with that Love.
That that's awesome and I, yeah, just I love the perspective.
It's a it's a very unique one,especially again for you know
somebody who is a coach and hasvery much the capacity to to do
what.
You've really chosen, this verythoughtful approach to take
care of the child first andraise good humans and be there
(44:21):
as dad, and it seems to haveworked out extremely well.
And we were talking earlieraround specialization and late
specialization versus earlierspecialization and basically
allowing kids to sample a lot ofsports.
I think there's a lot of earlyspecialization that's happening
nowadays, as it feels likethings are more competitive and
(44:41):
if it's like your kid is not inclub soccer by age seven, like
well, they're never going to goto the MLS, they're never going
to play.
So what are your thoughts on onthat and how that has changed a
lot in in kids today?
Speaker 1 (44:56):
Yeah, kind of coincidentally, one of the
papers that I wrote in 2011 wasabout sport sampling and late
specialization as an alternativeto early specialization, and
the really interesting thing isthat when you look at world
class athletes versus thenational class the world class
(45:19):
athletes the big discriminatingfactor is the time that they
spent doing other sports, and soI don't think it's the only way
.
Obviously, early specializationin some sports can be an
advantage, and I'm not sayingdon't do that sport.
I really think earlyintroduction is really good, but
(45:43):
try not to peg peg a person inone hole way too early, and so,
especially before maturation,having having them decide later,
so before that puberty, beforedevelopment, having them sample
(46:03):
a variety of sports is going tobe better for their motor
learning, it's going to bebetter for socialization, it's
going to be better forpreventing injuries, and then
they can kind of find.
They can find for themselveswhere their talents lie and
where their interests lie, andso I'm a pretty big advocate for
that, which, unfortunately, isbecoming less and less of the
(46:24):
model where it used to be you'dplay seasonal sports and you'd
play a variety, and now, becauseof that club model, there's so
many year-round sports, and Idon't think that those clubs
themselves are bad, but I thinkus as parents can advocate for
(46:47):
our kids and say, hey, we'regoing to do this club sport for
a period of time and then we'regoing to go do something else
for a period of time.
And you know, kind of put thefoot down there when some of
these, these coaches, theyalmost they want to take control
of your kid and like, oh, yourkid is so talented.
You know, if they we got thistravel team that's coming up and
(47:09):
they're this is going to be theway for them to get to the top.
If we don't do this, um,they're going to miss the boat
and no let's, we're going to dothis and then we're going to go
do something else and if thetalent is there, then it will
show through.
Speaker 2 (47:25):
Yeah, I love that and I like what you said earlier
around.
You know I'm really big onopportunities.
You know, giving themopportunities and giving them as
many of these opportunities aspossible and that again, that
exposure to as many of those and, yeah, the talent and the hard
work and the interest, if it'sthere and they're committed to
it, they'll take it long-term.
If not, there's still so manybenefits from them doing any of
(47:47):
these endeavors young, old,whatnot yeah, so I just love the
thought process there Really.
Last thing I want to hit on isyou know you mentioned you have
a career outside of athleticsand that's your coaching career.
Your, your, your, your, umcoaching career, your coaching
company.
Tell us about what do you do asa coach?
Who do you coach?
How do people find out moreabout that?
(48:09):
And then I would love to know,um, you know what's coming up
next for you in life?
And uh and uh go from there.
Speaker 1 (48:17):
Yeah.
So mid-aught coaching is my mybusiness and that has kind of
evolved alongside myprofessional racing.
I started coaching athletesbefore I was a professional
athlete and so that's alwayssomething I've done
simultaneously lot better withthe athletes that I coach than
(48:43):
some of the professionalathletes that I competed against
, because most people have a lotgoing on in their lives they
might be working full-time, theymight have a family, so they're
trying to fit in this athleticpiece, you know, to train for a
marathon, a triathlon, a hundredmile bike race, and so I can
relate to that and I know how tomake the best use of their time
and prioritize kind of allthose, those components of
(49:07):
fitness, to put together aprogram that works well for them
.
And so mid-awecoachingcom isprobably the best way to contact
me and part of what keeps meinvolved in the sport.
I think it's really importantfor me to be able to speak to
all these different endurancesports that I coach through
(49:30):
personal experience, not justthe scientific knowledge.
So I like to dabble andsometimes I kind of steer off
course, because some of theathletes that I coach are doing
these amazing things and I wantto be a little bit more informed
on on what they're doing.
Speaker 2 (49:46):
And so.
Speaker 1 (49:47):
I'm actually going to go back to road triathlon um
this summer.
So I'm going to do a couple70.3 half Ironman events.
I'm also going to do a littlebit of gravel racing.
I'll do some off-road racingwith XTERRA triathlons.
I'll probably do three or fourand I'll get to do some of those
with my kids and then we'llkind of see what else comes up.
(50:10):
But I have a fairly fullcalendar.
Part of it depends on what myboys are racing, because they're
actually going to be racing onan elite circuit with their
triathlon.
Sullivan's going to be racing alot of continental cups.
Porter's going to be racingsome junior cups.
He's just finishing high schooland going into the same program
as Sullivan, so yeah, it'll bepretty exciting.
(50:33):
We'll be kind of all over theplace.
Speaker 2 (50:35):
That's awesome, gosh.
I love how busy you're keepingand getting to race with your
kids and getting to do all thesedifferent events.
I mean, I think that's the goalright.
It's not just to get to dothese ourselves and have these
long careers of fulfillingactivities, but really get to
integrate that experience withour family.
So I love it.
So we'll link to the coachingsite in the show notes as well.
(51:00):
And, yeah, I just want to saythank you so much for all the
time and the wisdom and thestories that you've shared.
This was incredibly insightful,so I'm excited to continue
following along of you and yourboys and your daughter as well,
who is, I'm sure, right therecrushing it as an athlete and a
great human.
And so, yes, thank you againand appreciate you jumping on.
Speaker 1 (51:19):
Thanks, man.
Yeah, thanks for having meAppreciate it.
I think it's okay to strive for balance, but I think
that the truth for an eliteathlete or somebody who's trying
to reach 100% of theirpotential in a given domain, I
think that balance has to beredefined a little bit and I
(00:21):
think it's okay to not beperfectly balanced, as long as
your priorities are in line and,like I said, having priority
one as family and then for me.
A lot of times that performancedid have to play second fiddle
a little bit, but I tried to doeverything possible that I could
(00:42):
with that time, the time that Iwas allotted, tried to do
everything possible that I couldwith that time, the time that I
was allotted.
Speaker 2 (00:52):
Welcome to the Athlete Dad Podcast, where we
explore the intersection ofphysical pursuits and fatherhood
.
I'm your host, ben Gibson, andeach episode we'll dive deep
into topics like modeling,ambition, achieving balance and
intentional integration aroundathletic passions and parenting.
If you're seeking to accomplishyour goals as an athlete while
crushing it as a parent, thenyou've come to the right place.
What's up everybody?
(01:21):
It's great to be back, took abit of a break to focus on my
work, got to pay the bills, myfamily playing outdoors, all
kinds of things.
I think really, what I'm tryingto do is I'm trying to focus on
creating some space so I canfigure out what kinds of things
I want to do next in manyaspects of my life.
(01:43):
And one thing for sure is afocus of mine is growing this
amazing show and this amazingcommunity that is the Athlete
Dad.
I am excited more excited thanI probably ever have about what
we're working on in the podcastand committed to this mission to
help ambitious dads pursuetheir passions in a healthy way,
(02:06):
by finding a balance betweentheir pursuits and their
families and uncovering ways tointegrate the people that they
love into the things that theylove.
And I've been spending a lot oftime writing and thinking and
planning and as I'm doing this,one word kept coming to mind,
and that word is intentional.
And as I'm doing this, one wordkept coming to mind and that
word is intentional.
You know, really, thisoverarching theme about why I'm
(02:29):
doing what I'm doing is that Iwant to squeeze every ounce of
goodness out of my lifeexperiences.
So I have to be reallyintentional about how I first
prioritize the things in my lifewhat are the most important
things to me and then to how Iapproach those things in my life
so that I can create the life,the experience that I want for
(02:51):
myself and for my family.
And that is why I'm so excitedabout my next guest on the show,
because intentional is also aword that kept coming up during
our conversation is also a wordthat kept coming up during our
conversation, and it is hislevel of thoughtfulness and
intentionality that has shapedhim into the amazing human that
(03:12):
he is today.
Today, I have the pleasure ofspeaking with legendary
multi-sport athlete JosiahMiddaw.
Now I will say this before Iget into his accomplishments it
is not often that you are sogood at your sport, that you are
in the Hall of Fame for yoursport while you are still
competing, but that is the casefor Josiah.
(03:34):
Josiah is a multi-sport athleteof all seasons, but he's
primarily an extremelyaccomplished professional
triathlete competing in theXTERRA triathlon series.
So these are off-roadtriathlons and if you haven't
heard of this, I hadn't heard ofthis until I met with Josiah
and they are awesome.
So an off-road triathlon.
(03:54):
Basically, what it does is,instead of a road bike, it's a
mountain bike, so it's moreextreme terrain.
Instead of road running, it'strail running and, of course, an
open water swim.
Now Josiah has competed 21times in the XTERRA World
Championships, winning the WorldChampionship in 2015.
And he has been a top 10finisher 16 times.
(04:17):
He's a 15-time XTERRA USNational Champion, a four-time
Fat Bike World Champion, asix-time national snowshoe
champion, and he's competed inthe Eco Challenge in Fiji.
Basically, if there's a commonversion of a sport, josiah seeks
out the version that's wayharder and then does that
(04:38):
instead.
Most importantly, josiah is ahusband.
He is a father of three.
He is a family man.
His sons, porter and Sullivan,are also, by the way, very
talented and successful athletes, and we'll talk about how he
thinks about raising successfulhumans, not just raising
successful athletes.
Josiah also runs a coachingbusiness, midog Coaching, where
(05:01):
they deliver personalized,scientifically based,
results-driven programs forendurance athletes of every
level, and we'll make sure toinclude how you can get
connected to his coachingbusiness after the show and in
the show notes.
But in this conversation withJosiah, we talk about his
journey to becoming aprofessional athlete, which is,
I think, a really cool part ofan athlete's life is how did
(05:22):
they go from amateur to pro?
We talk about his approach tocoaching or not coaching his own
kids and how he's balancingbeing a family man and an
athlete, especially and Ithought this was interesting
while competing against manyother athletes who were
themselves single with no kids,and we get into so many other
great perspectives on life andfatherhood and pursuing your
(05:42):
goals.
You're going to love this one.
So please enjoy listening to myconversation with the amazing
Josiah Mida.
Josiah, thanks so much fortaking time out of your very
busy week as an athlete and as adad to chat about the Athlete
Dad today.
I know we've been trying tochat for a while, but you know
(06:05):
you you're an athlete that hasyour hands in a lot of different
sports and three kids and youknow, full-time coaching company
and husband.
So unsurprisingly you're you'rea very busy guy, so really just
want to say thanks for fortaking time to chat today.
Speaker 1 (06:20):
You betcha?
Yeah, thanks for having me on,looking forward to it.
Speaker 2 (06:28):
Awesome.
I think you know, as Imentioned, you're a multi-sport
athlete.
I think it'd be really helpfulto set the context for a little
bit more about your life, and soI'm curious what does life as
dad, husband look like for you?
And then, if you could help usunderstand, when we say
multi-sport athlete, what doesthat mean for you?
Speaker 1 (06:46):
multi-sport athlete.
Like what does that mean foryou?
Yeah, so I have been aprofessional track for over 20
years now.
I think I got my my pro card in2003, so yeah 2024, um and I,
so I have three kids.
When I graduated college met, mywife moved out to Colorado all
in the course of a week and wejust we started this life here
(07:09):
and I really got into themountain lifestyle, got into the
endurance sports, and my ruleat first was I could only pick
up one sport per year, butpretty soon I found myself
really gravitating towardsoff-road triathlons.
So XTERRA triathlon has been mybig focus throughout my career
(07:32):
and my kids kind of grew upalongside that.
I said I got my pro card in2003.
My first child was born in 2004.
So that's Sullivan, and he isnow 19.
Then I have a son, porter, 18,and a daughter, larson, who's 13
.
So they've kind of grown upalongside everything that I've
(07:53):
done and it's just been part oftheir lifestyle.
Luckily I have a veryunderstanding wife.
She was a collegiate runner aswell.
We both graduated from CentralMichigan as collegiate runners
and so she kind of understandsmy tics and quirks and puts up
with it a lot and alsounderstands a lot of my identity
(08:14):
, is kind of wrapped up in theseendurance sports that I do, and
so she's always supported methrough that, which has been
100% the key.
Speaker 2 (08:27):
I definitely hear you on the supportive spouse side,
especially for enduranceathletes.
Just the amount of time that ittakes.
You know there's no likeshortcut to being a great
endurance runner.
It really just takes hours onthe road.
So, yeah, that's, that's suchan important part of even just
having the capacity to be ableto go and do these things.
(08:47):
And man, what a whirlwind.
Move to Colorado.
What was it for you?
Why the decision to move to themountain town?
Were you already interested inmountain sports or was that
something that really blossomedafter you moved there?
Speaker 1 (09:03):
I would just say I was curious, but I had never
even been to Colorado.
So I had an internship lined upand back in 1999, there was
probably 15 postings ofinternships on the internet and
I applied to like one in SantaCruz, one in Arizona, one in
(09:24):
Colorado and just so happened tobe in Vail.
I remember looking at a map andbeing like, oh wow, vail Pass,
like someday I'm going to try toride my bike up Vail Pass, you
know, just like really funny,funny things.
But I always had thatattraction to the mountains and
Ingrid, my wife, was on boardand we moved out to Vail and we
(09:46):
were just going to stay for thesummer.
Try to make it work.
I had a 12-week internship andwe stayed for the summer and we
said, oh man, well, we have toexperience winter, because
that's what Vail, colorado, wasall about the snow sports and we
fell in love with the summer,which is kind of opposite of
most people.
They move there for the winterand fall in love with the summer
(10:08):
.
But we experienced summer firstand then had to experience
winter and it just kind of all Idon't know if I'd say fell in
place, but it was just too muchfun to leave.
Speaker 2 (10:21):
Yeah, I hear that, and it is an interesting thing
about mountain townsspecifically is the amount of
stuff you can get into.
Like, in realizing, in movingto bend, I realized it's going
to take me like four years justto acquire all the toys that I
need to like hang out witheverybody, because as soon as
(10:41):
one season's, you know thepeople do things in the shoulder
season and then it's like a newmain season and so, um, yeah, I
, I absolutely love that aspectof it to where.
You know, I lived in San Diegofor a bit and I hated surfing in
the winter time.
It was just such a bummer andso cold and uh, so I was just
always waiting for summer.
And then mountain towns, yeah,to your point it's.
(11:02):
You know, every, every seasonhas a thing and you can get into
a lot of different things and Ithink that leads to a really
exciting lifestyle.
And so when you think aboutmulti-sport, like you know, you
are uh, you're, you're running,you're snowshoeing, you're
biking, but even within thesedisciplines there are like
specificities.
Like you do the fat bike racing, so, like, what are all the uh
(11:27):
sports or endeavors that you door have done?
Um, and and then I also lovetoo.
Uh, I was just watching you do.
You did a a quadathlon, am Isaying that right?
quadrathlon, quadrathlon, thereyou go there's a right way to
say it.
Yeah, so it's not even justthat you're doing all these
great sports, but I love thatthere just seems to be every
(11:48):
different combination of thesetypes of sports.
So can you help us understand,like, what are all the things
that you do get into?
Speaker 1 (11:56):
Yeah, I would say that I would try anything
related to endurance related toendurance.
So when I, when I first movedhere, my background was running,
I picked up mountain biking.
You know, bought a mountain bikefrom the pawn shop and
immediately started racing it.
You know, did a hundred milemountain bike race a couple of
weeks after buying a mountainbike with zero skills, didn't
(12:20):
even know you had to put lube onthe chain.
So a lot of my experiencesinitially were very, very
humbling.
And then I just with themountain lifestyle, like you
said, you know, all of these funrecreational sports, well, they
do require some skill, like themountain biking.
I even got into kayaking for alittle while because we had the
(12:41):
GoPro mountain games and I woulddo several events and it was
your combined time.
It'd be a road bike hill climb,a mountain bike, a trail run
and a down river kayak.
And then I also dabbled withadventure racing for a while.
I raced the Eco Challenge justa couple of years ago, in 2019.
(13:01):
And that years before that Iwould, I would go over to France
, to China, new Zealand, doadventure racing there, and that
was that combined a lot ofsports, but usually it was trail
running, it was something onthe water, usually some type of
kayaking, mountain biking, andthen there was some always some
(13:22):
rope.
But again, I was always gamefor anything, endurance, and
eventually I picked up thingslike Nordic skiing.
This weekend I'm doing the USATriathlon Winter National
Championship, so that is runningon snow, fat biking and
cross-country skiing, so skateskiing.
(13:43):
That's awesome so yeah, a lot ofdifferent things that I've done
, but again, my main focusthroughout my career was the
XTERRA triathlon.
So swimming, mountain biking,trail running and what I found
for myself personally that themore sports that I can combine
the better.
(14:04):
So I was explaining to one ofmy kids actually that, like this
quadathlon that I did, I'm notthe very best uphill biker, but
there's not very many bikersthat can outclimb me but could
also outrun me.
Same thing with trail running.
(14:25):
Like I can get in a race, youknow, with guys that are on the,
the national trail running team, and I can hold my own pretty
well, but I'm not going to win,you know, a world caliber or
national caliber event withtrail runners, but I can't think
of any of those trail runnersahead of me that could beat me
in a mountain bike race.
So when you combine some ofthese things, then I usually um
(14:49):
come out on top in most things.
Speaker 2 (14:51):
Yeah, that's a great way to look at it.
Yeah, where are your strengths?
And you know, where do I, wheredo I need to make up some
ground?
And, um, I even love how yousaid a lot of your.
Your first experiences in thesesports was a very humbling one,
and yet you really you keptgoing Like, do you do you feel
like that has been somethingthat has always been a part of
(15:12):
how you have thought about theseendeavors of like I might get
rocked the first time, but likenow I'm curious, okay, like what
can I get good at this?
Or like where, where do youfeel like that started for you,
and how do you keep thatmentality top of mind when
things are tough?
Speaker 1 (15:28):
Yeah, I definitely have had that mentality my whole
life and I kind of attribute tonot having a lot of really
early success.
I always considered myself alate bloomer and so I knew that
there was a lot of work that Ihad to put into something to get
good at it, and sometimes myexpectations would exceed
(15:49):
reality.
And that's when it would bevery humbling, and usually it
was when I was really proficientin one thing and thought I
could just transfer over and bereally good at another thing and
then just get completelyhumbled by that.
But for me it was always verymotivating.
And after I won the XTERRAWorld Championship I started to
really look back and reflect.
(16:13):
And you know why am I still inthe sport, why did it take me so
long to get to the top and whydidn't I quit 15 years ago, 20
years ago?
And part of it is that failurebeing a part of success, being
along the same path of successand not something that's
opposite of success.
And I think way too many peoplethey experience those failures
(16:40):
and they immediately give up onsomething and they only want to
do something that they havenatural inclination for,
something that they show earlypromise or talent in and they
shy away from anything thatthey're not good at, not
challenged.
And whenever I've had thosereally humbling experiences,
it's been very motivating for mebecause I said, oh wow, like I
(17:01):
had no idea that I was going tobe 15 minutes behind in this
50-mile bike race or whatever itis.
Let me see, what are those guysdoing?
Why are they so much betterthan me?
What could I do in training?
What skills could I acquire tobe better at this?
It's been very motivating forme.
Speaker 2 (17:20):
I love that and I think this is one of the most
important things that I hope toinstill in my own kids.
And I'm always so curious whensomebody thinks this way of like
how did that start for you?
Like, where did that originate?
Do you feel like it was innate?
Was it something that wasinstilled by your parents,
(17:42):
father figures?
So I do want to take a stepback because it sounds like you
did have a very uniqueupbringing.
So I'm curious tell us aboutyour childhood in Michigan and
really the unique circumstancesaround that.
And then I'm curious how do youthink your childhood and
whether there were influencesfrom parents or just sort of
(18:03):
innately, the experiences youhad shaped that mindset as you
grew?
Speaker 1 (18:09):
Yeah, so I grew up in northern Michigan and the
community that I was in wasbasically a hippie commune that
I grew up in, and it was a bunchof like-minded people that all
kind of went in and bought theseplots of land in northern
Michigan.
(18:30):
It was part of the old Bohemiansettlement, and so this farmer
had divided up his land and somy parents I think they, you
know bought 20 acres for tenthousand dollars.
You know, wow, that's awesome,it sounds great and, you know,
even had to take out a loan todo it, right, uh, which is the
(18:50):
funny part, um, but I remembermy whole childhood having work
bees to work on somebody's house.
We had a community building.
We even tried our own schoolfor a while.
Speaker 2 (19:03):
And.
Speaker 1 (19:04):
I mean I wouldn't say it was a failed project.
But just as kids grew up andgot older, the community wasn't
as cohesive as it was when I wasyounger.
But you know amazing memoriesGrowing up with very little, a
very simple lifestyle.
We had a dirt floor for a while.
(19:24):
We had outdoor plumbing forseveral years, an outdoor toilet
for quite a while, probablyuntil I was 11 or 12, something
like that.
So a very different upbringing,but it definitely shaped my
work ethic because that was abig part of living.
(19:44):
That simply was going out andchopping wood and hauling wood
and doing a lot of things withwood.
Speaker 2 (19:51):
Yeah, especially the natural bohemian state that you
found yourself wood.
Yeah, yeah, especially the the,the natural bohemian state that
you found yourself in.
That's, that's great.
And I, I also think, uh, youknow, I love that.
You know a lot of the hard workjust became a standard
expectation of like how we live.
We we are all contributing tothis community.
If we need something, we've gotto do it ourselves.
(20:12):
All contributing to thiscommunity.
If we need something, we've gotto do it ourselves.
Sounds like you were workingquite a bit as a kid, Did you as
a kid?
What was your mindset when youwere a kid?
Did you hate it?
Were you just like oh, it'sjust what it is?
Did you see benefit in it?
What was that like for youearlier on?
Speaker 1 (20:28):
I would say I didn't really know any differently.
So my dad was a self-employedcarpenter and always just worked
for himself or partnered withone other person, so it wasn't
like he was project managermanaging a crew of people.
It was very simple.
I mean he did.
I mean he this is going tosound like Amish or something
(20:50):
but he didn't use air compressor.
You know, he would roof housesby hand and I would.
You know, the first workexperience I had was, you know,
working with him on roofs and Iactually ended up building a
house with him when I was incollege, which was a really fun,
rewarding experience.
But step back with the like howit kind of related to athletics
(21:15):
.
My dad was a really goodathlete and more team sports,
amazing football player,wrestler, and it was kind of
funny because on the when we'dhave all these get togethers,
they were trying to teach more.
The new thing was these newgames that were cooperative, you
know, and you know it wouldtake the competition part out of
(21:37):
it, but my brothers and I werejust like cutthroat competitive
with everything and I think mydad did kind of realize, because
that was his mentality too umthat hey, you know, maybe we
should nurture thiscompetitiveness a little bit and
eventually we end up going to apublic school and, uh, got
(21:58):
really into just you know, thethe traditional school sports
and really competitive witheverything and it did help that
I had a.
Well, I was middle, so I had anolder brother, younger brother.
My older brother was less thantwo years older than me, one
grade ahead, and he was theoutstanding athlete good at
everything, and I had just hadto scrap and work for everything
(22:21):
that I had yeah, that's amazing, and I I hear you on the the
competitive boy side.
Speaker 2 (22:26):
I grew up with two brothers, I have two boys and
I've I've really learned it'sthere's no like tamping stuff
down, it's just can I channelthis into something?
Because there's just energypouring out of them.
And I'm sure it was the samewhen I was a kid and we were
wreaking, wreaking havoc allover, all over the house and I
(22:47):
I'd love to know, like what arethe things that you feel like
your dad did, whether againdirectly as an athlete, helping
you be an athlete, or justgenerally, that really kind of
like spurred that interest inathletics yourself?
Speaker 1 (23:02):
Yeah, I would say the biggest thing.
When he I think he was 42 yearsold he started running to lose
weight and I started runningwith him.
Basically I think I was 10 or11 years old and I would go, you
know, not these big treks orjaunts, but I'd run two miles,
three miles with him and he kindof realized I didn't have the
(23:23):
same type of skills.
My older brother was morestrength, speed, power.
You know he was the footballplayer sprinter in track and I
was very different.
I was a lot slower.
I think he scratched his head alittle bit but he said well,
maybe you might be good at thislong distance running thing and
(23:44):
so he started running with meand I think that was.
That was kind of unique.
I mean, if you weren'texcelling in football,
basketball or baseball thenthere wasn't.
You know, in some of thosesmall towns you're not even
considered an athlete.
So I ran cross country.
We had kind of a ragtag team,so I didn't have a whole lot of
(24:07):
early success.
Like you can see, the themehere, but eventually just kept
working really hard and wentthrough a lot of growing pains
as a kid and finally had somesuccess, really by my junior
senior year of high school.
Speaker 2 (24:24):
It's impressive to stick around and continue to do
it for that long.
I love the idea of hearing howathletes were influenced when
they were growing up by theirown fathers and then how that
translates to their kids thissort of like multi-generational
influence of positive traitsthat come from being an athlete.
(24:45):
And so I don't think it's it's.
I feel like it's uncommon forsomeone to not see that success
and yet to keep going.
You'd mentioned that it was.
It's motivating for you.
Now, had it always beenmotivating, or were there
influences like your dad orcoaches, or or just intrinsic
motivation to just keep going?
Speaker 1 (25:05):
Yeah, I would.
I would say all of the above.
Um, I think I just started withreally small goals and I I
never had a goal of.
You know, some of these kidsthink they're good, they want to
be a professional athlete, theywant to be in the Olympics.
I just wanted to, you know,make the varsity team to then,
(25:30):
okay, I want to be one of thebest in the conference.
I want them to be one of thebest in the conference.
I want to be one of the best inthe region, one of the best in
the state, and it just wasreally incremental goals all the
way through that's awesome andmakes a lot of sense.
Speaker 2 (25:44):
I think, uh, you know , I certainly felt it as a kid
and I guess even as an adult too.
But, um, when my goals are toofar out in front of me, and how
that can definitely be ademotivator to just feel like
defeated I'm so far, I don'tbelong.
You know this isn't.
These people are just waybetter than I am and I'm not
(26:06):
playing in my level.
And you mentioned, you know,okay, so transitioning to kind
of moving into being aprofessional athlete.
You know you mentioned thesesmall goals trying to
incrementally improve it.
Like, when did the switch flipfor you where you were like I'm
good enough to be a professionalathlete, I want to be a
professional athlete?
(26:27):
Like when did you make thatshift?
Speaker 1 (26:30):
So the very first XTERRA race that I ever did was
in Keystone, colorado, and it'sall set above 9,000 feet, and in
the swim I had a panic attackand a horrible experience.
Way behind Again, new to themountain bike jumped on my
mountain bike from the pawn shopyou know it's pretty horrible
Technically crashed a bunch oftimes.
(26:51):
The very next year I improvedmy time by about 45 minutes and
I could see that I was kind ofon that, that tail end of the
pro field, and so I ended upgetting my pro license the
following year and then I thinkit was 2004 that I won the race.
It was the mountainchampionship and it was a big
international field.
(27:11):
The prize money was pretty goodnext year at that time and so
then I kind of started tobelieve, I guess, that I could
compete with some of these guysthat were the best in the world.
Now it was a lot easiercompeting kind of my my home
turf at high altitude inColorado, so it took me a little
bit longer to really excel onthat world stage at the world
(27:34):
championship, which was alwaysin Maui, hawaii, for 20 some
years.
Speaker 2 (27:39):
Yeah, the first race.
I can't even imagine a panicattack in the water and maybe
not having the bike that youwanted.
But yeah, you kept going, youkept pressing.
And it's interesting toobecause it sounds like you had a
career outside of athletics atthat point.
Was there a point where youwere able to kind of flip that
(28:01):
switch and be like I'm going tobasically focus exclusively on
my, my athlete career, or haveyou always had kind of a career
outside of athletics?
Speaker 1 (28:17):
outside of athletics.
Yeah, so, interestingly, Inever, in some ways I never went
all in on being a professionalathlete, because I always worked
.
So I worked as a personaltrainer, worked as a coach,
pretty much my entireprofessional career.
And so I, you know, it wasn'tthat I wasn't 100% dedicated to
it, but I just with theresponsibilities of being a
(28:38):
parent, the, you know, the prizemoney was such and the
sponsorship was such that atdifferent times in my career
they might have made up a biggerpercentage, but to live in Vail
, Colorado, to pay the mortgageI was going to have to hustle in
other ways.
And so I pretty much, you know,worked pretty close to full
(28:59):
time my entire racing career.
Speaker 2 (29:02):
And that's incredible .
I think that just makes it, Imean that much more impressive.
So you're, you know you're anew dad, you're working and
you're trying to pursue being aprofessional athlete I'm sure
that there was like a lot oflike, much like the athletic
side, a lot of humblingexperiences.
Can you paint a picture for usaround maybe even those early
(29:24):
years of being a dad, like howdid you balance it all?
And like maybe what were someof the more tougher lessons that
you learned along the way?
Speaker 1 (29:34):
Well, I did have to approach it a lot differently
than a lot of my competitionbecause I was at the time on the
circuit, I was the only fatheron the circuit and I just didn't
have the luxury and most of mycompetition at least on the
world stage they were 100%professional athletes.
(29:56):
They approached it veryprofessionally, some even had
some government funding.
A lot of them had beenOlympians before getting into
XTERRA, so I couldn't train thesame number of hours as
everybody else and I kind ofrealized that early on, and so I
had a very different approach.
(30:17):
It was maybe almost a littlebit more serious, because I
couldn't wait for the perfectweather window.
I had to get up at 5 am, I hadto do my work, workouts, do my
work, be there for family, andjust trying to prioritize
everything with you know familyfirst, training and racing
(30:38):
second and probably job third,but at different times those
things shuffled around a littlebit, but always trying to
prioritize family as as the veryfirst thing, and part of that
was providing for my family, andso I couldn't just go all in on
racing.
Speaker 2 (30:57):
Yeah.
Can you think of a time whereyou know I think you had
something you know really reallyvaluable around the idea of
balance Like I don't think weever actually attain balance,
but it's really more aboutpriorities and sacrifices.
Can you tell us about a timewhen things were very out of
balance and maybe you felt likethere were too many sacrifices
(31:20):
and then like, how do you thinkabout that idea of balance now
today?
Speaker 1 (31:25):
Yeah, I think that I think it's okay to strive for
balance, but I think that thetruth, for an elite athlete or
somebody who's trying to reach100 of their potential in a
given domain, I think thatbalance has to be redefined a
(31:47):
little bit and I I think it'sokay to not be perfectly
balanced as long as yourpriorities are in line and, like
I said, having priority one asfamily and then for me.
A lot of times that performancedid have to play second fiddle
a little bit, but I tried to doeverything possible that I could
(32:11):
with the time that I wasallotted.
So, again, I wasn't training 25, 30 hours a week like in my
competition.
Sometimes I was training 10 to12 hours, sometimes 15, 18 hours
a week, but I was making themost out of the hours that I had
.
(32:32):
It was kind of interesting whenI, my kids, were still young, I
had my fifth knee surgery and mydaughter was about to be born.
I ended up going back andgetting my master's degree.
And what I approached mymaster's degree, you know,
partly not knowing what myfuture was going to hold, but I
(32:55):
wanted to to really define somethings for myself, and so
everything that I did for mymaster's degree was pouring over
the research on enduranceperformance, and part of that
was for my coaching business,but it was also to see how could
I really optimize this timethat I have available?
And so that was in 2010 that Iwent back to school, 2012, I was
(33:20):
really applying those conceptsto my athletes, but also myself,
and then it was 2015 when I wonthe world championship.
So it was a very scientific,very disciplined approach that I
had to take, which for somepeople might sound like not a
lot of fun, but I kind of had tohave that more of a work-like
(33:41):
mentality to my training at thattime.
Speaker 2 (33:44):
I mean, that's a.
It makes a lot of sense thatyou would, you would uh,
approach it that way and thatyou kind of have to approach it
that way, right, given theconstraints.
You're like I've got to windifferently or I've got to
really lean into my strengths.
I think, much like you weresaying originally about the
races and you know, hey, I maynot be the best at this part of
it, but I'm going to catch youon this part of it.
And so, looking at your ownlife, you're like, how do I
(34:08):
leverage what I do well, whichseems to be really around the
educational piece, the kind ofthoughtful iterations and
experimentations piece, to beable to make the most and play
catch up in these other areas.
So, yeah, it seems to be areally strong approach and a
really really great theme, andit seems like it's really
(34:30):
translated well in how you'vealso seemed to show up as dad
and run a successful business.
And this is an area that I'm'magain very curious to hear your
perspective on, which is aroundhow you as a professional
athlete, as an elite athlete,show up with your own kids.
So your, your kids, are verysuccessful athletes and I think,
(34:53):
um, your oldest is, is, I think, on pace to probably beat all
of dad's records andaccomplishments, which is like
it's so cool to see.
I think that really, especiallywithin your own sport, has got
to feel really cool.
So I'm curious what is yourperspective when it comes to
(35:15):
raising successful athletic kidsor just raising successful kids
, and how has that evolved overthe years to maybe suit what,
how you think about it today?
Speaker 1 (35:29):
Yeah, it's interesting.
I was a very late bloomer andmy wife was kind of the opposite
.
So the joke that we have in ourfamily is that she was the one
on athletic scholarship incollege and I was on academic
scholarship and so she's goingto take any credit for any
(35:50):
genetic gifts that my kids mighthave.
You know, some some people inthe in the scientific community
know or, uh, is that themitochondria?
That is really the powerhouseof the cell?
That the RNA from themitochondria actually only is
(36:10):
passed down from the mother.
So that just proves that anyother success is is going to be
from her.
Speaker 2 (36:19):
That's a smart play, either way is, it was all my
wife.
She's the reason, yeah, butthat's interesting to know on a
on a cellular level, that, uh,we can directly attribute that
to it.
Speaker 1 (36:29):
So yeah, but my, my kids, I really I was really more
focused on being there as aparent, being supportive as a
parent and coaching them to.
You know, making childchampions was not a focus at all
and I didn't ever want toassume that the path that I had
(36:53):
kind of carved out for myselfwas something that they would
want or that was best for them,and so that was not my, my
intent or my wife's intent atall.
We wanted to have, you know,well-rounded kids, but again, I
was modeling behavior.
We were going to races.
A lot of their structured playwas actually mimicking racing.
(37:19):
You know they were alwaysracing each other, they're
setting up obstacle coursesrunning through them, and so
they definitely gravitated totowards those things and, you
know, did have some pretty earlysuccess.
But again, we we actually,instead of doubling down on that
, we kind of steered away fromit a little bit because we
(37:41):
didn't want to just set up thesewinning opportunities for our
kids and have have theseexpectations that were so high
and with one of my kids that wecould, we recognize that that
was kind of a problem.
That was kind of a problem.
(38:04):
When he would win something, hewould have that expectation
that he thought there were theseexternal expectations that he
had to win the next time and heactually did better and actually
a more competitive environmentwhere he wasn't expected to win,
where he might finish 20th or30th or 67th, um, so that was
kind of interesting.
Speaker 2 (38:27):
Hmm, that is interesting and it is, um, I
think, as a, I certainly feltthose pressures as a kid myself,
and they were not anything thatwas communicated by my parents,
but it's just something thatsort of like, I think, just came
up with myself for whateverreason.
I think it's natural, but howdid you uncover that?
That was the case, like youknow, you weren't pressing them,
but I'm curious where they're,like introspective conversations
(38:49):
that you would still have justto try to get into, maybe the
mental aspect of it, like howdid how did you uncover?
Speaker 1 (38:53):
that I mean, it was just pretty evident um that one
of my boys was just ultracompetitive in everything that
he did and it was funny.
There was a little jog-a-thonin school and him and his
brother had the record for thenumber of laps when they were in
first grade and this was a K-8school all the way through
(39:17):
eighth grade.
And so then he had all thispressure to perform and he
started getting nervous aboutthe jog-a-thon Like this is
ridiculous, we're not going tobe nervous about that.
And so I really steered awayfrom coaching and pushing my
kids.
I didn't want to have that.
I just didn't want to have thattype of relationship where I
(39:38):
was their coach.
And again, I'm not saying thatthere's one right way to do it.
I think there's times when it isgreat to step in and do some
coaching, especially if there'sa lack of that in your community
.
If you want to start a newprogram, I mean we did start a
cross-country team at the middleschool, but it was two days a
(39:59):
week.
They were running maybe twomiles tops, um, so pretty.
We tried to keep things prettylow-key and we tried to have
them sample a variety ofdifferent sports and just see
where their interests lied and,you know, also have that social
component to it and not feellike they had to have this
(40:20):
identity that was the same astheir, their dads and I.
I, I think that can become kindof toxic.
Speaker 2 (40:26):
Sure, well, it's just so interesting that it it just
kind of naturally, you know,played out that way, cause you
certainly see it sometimes whereit's it's.
You know that that the childwas destined from birth to like
do that sport because of howtheir dad or their parents were
was going to approach it Likethat the child didn't really
have a choice, like they weregoing to follow suit.
(40:47):
But I love the approach thatyou have where it's very much
like this deliberate hands-off,I'll step in when it makes sense
.
But like I want to be clearabout the dynamic that I want to
have.
And yet your kids are verysuccessful.
So I wonder how much of that wasdue to other I guess you know
we can attribute it to otherfactors.
(41:08):
So I'm curious, like what arethose other factors?
And it sounds like the exposureto you being an athlete, to
your wife being an athlete,probably was a big part of it.
And whether you were directlycoaching or not, just the fact
that they got to see you prepareand race and take it seriously
and, um, you know, all thatdefinitely influenced it.
When you think back around thataspect of it, just the exposure
(41:31):
, you know they were travelingwith you Like, how do you think
that that ended up shaping themin such a way to where they
still got?
They still became successfulathletes despite you?
You, you're not, I guess notdespite, but like even though
you were not my best effortsdespite your best efforts to
keep yes, exactly Right.
Speaker 1 (41:51):
Yeah, but if I could just have, you know, a doctor in
the house or something likethat.
Speaker 2 (41:55):
I know not one single lawyer in the house Like what
is going on here.
Speaker 1 (42:01):
No, I mean, I super proud of every accomplishment
they have, but I get, since Iwas such a late bloomer, I
didn't.
I never, just I just neverwanted those expectations of you
know you need to have thisperformance, that is, you know
best in the state or best in thecountry or whatever it is, and
and just be chasing, chasingthese arbitrary goals.
(42:24):
That just wasn't something thatwe wanted.
But they, they kind of foundtheir own path and just knowing
that, the work that I put in andhow long it took me to reach
that level, I I know thatthere's a lot of struggle and
they're going to have to wantthat for themselves.
(42:46):
That intrinsic motivation youasked like what are the
ingredients?
Intrinsic motivation isprobably number one.
The thing that you can provideas parents is opportunity and,
in some cases, direction.
I really like that direction tocome from other places, because
(43:09):
any parent knows that your kidquite often listens to other
adults better than they listento you.
So that direction from otherplaces.
And then the other part istalent, and that's something
that you can't change Right, andso the hard, the hard work is
(43:30):
what's going to make thedifference.
The opportunity is going to bea part of it.
But that innate talent issomething that I've always kind
of downplayed because that'ssomething that you can't change.
And then the difference,especially endurance sports.
It really that talent only getsyou in the door.
(43:50):
And then it's what are yougoing to do with that talent?
That's going to make adifference and nobody can put a
limit on on how far you can gowith that.
Love.
Speaker 2 (43:59):
That that's awesome and I love yeah, how far you can
go with that Love.
That that's awesome and I, yeah, just I love the perspective.
It's a it's a very unique one,especially again for you know
somebody who is a coach and hasvery much the capacity to to do
what.
You've really chosen, this verythoughtful approach to take
care of the child first andraise good humans and be there
(44:21):
as dad, and it seems to haveworked out extremely well.
And we were talking earlieraround specialization and late
specialization versus earlierspecialization and basically
allowing kids to sample a lot ofsports.
I think there's a lot of earlyspecialization that's happening
nowadays, as it feels likethings are more competitive and
(44:41):
if it's like your kid is not inclub soccer by age seven, like
well, they're never going to goto the MLS, they're never going
to play.
So what are your thoughts on onthat and how that has changed a
lot in in kids today?
Speaker 1 (44:56):
Yeah, kind of coincidentally, one of the
papers that I wrote in 2011 wasabout sport sampling and late
specialization as an alternativeto early specialization, and
the really interesting thing isthat when you look at world
class athletes versus thenational class the world class
(45:19):
athletes the big discriminatingfactor is the time that they
spent doing other sports, and soI don't think it's the only way
.
Obviously, early specializationin some sports can be an
advantage, and I'm not sayingdon't do that sport.
I really think earlyintroduction is really good, but
(45:43):
try not to peg peg a person inone hole way too early, and so,
especially before maturation,having having them decide later,
so before that puberty, beforedevelopment, having them sample
(46:03):
a variety of sports is going tobe better for their motor
learning, it's going to bebetter for socialization, it's
going to be better forpreventing injuries, and then
they can kind of find.
They can find for themselveswhere their talents lie and
where their interests lie, andso I'm a pretty big advocate for
that, which, unfortunately, isbecoming less and less of the
(46:24):
model where it used to be you'dplay seasonal sports and you'd
play a variety, and now, becauseof that club model, there's so
many year-round sports, and Idon't think that those clubs
themselves are bad, but I thinkus as parents can advocate for
(46:47):
our kids and say, hey, we'regoing to do this club sport for
a period of time and then we'regoing to go do something else
for a period of time.
And you know, kind of put thefoot down there when some of
these, these coaches, theyalmost they want to take control
of your kid and like, oh, yourkid is so talented.
You know, if they we got thistravel team that's coming up and
(47:09):
they're this is going to be theway for them to get to the top.
If we don't do this, um,they're going to miss the boat
and no let's, we're going to dothis and then we're going to go
do something else and if thetalent is there, then it will
show through.
Speaker 2 (47:25):
Yeah, I love that and I like what you said earlier
around.
You know I'm really big onopportunities.
You know, giving themopportunities and giving them as
many of these opportunities aspossible and that again, that
exposure to as many of those and, yeah, the talent and the hard
work and the interest, if it'sthere and they're committed to
it, they'll take it long-term.
If not, there's still so manybenefits from them doing any of
(47:47):
these endeavors young, old,whatnot yeah, so I just love the
thought process there Really.
Last thing I want to hit on isyou know you mentioned you have
a career outside of athleticsand that's your coaching career.
Your, your, your, your, umcoaching career, your coaching
company.
Tell us about what do you do asa coach?
Who do you coach?
How do people find out moreabout that?
(48:09):
And then I would love to know,um, you know what's coming up
next for you in life?
And uh and uh go from there.
Speaker 1 (48:17):
Yeah.
So mid-aught coaching is my mybusiness and that has kind of
evolved alongside myprofessional racing.
I started coaching athletesbefore I was a professional
athlete and so that's alwayssomething I've done
simultaneously lot better withthe athletes that I coach than
(48:43):
some of the professionalathletes that I competed against
, because most people have a lotgoing on in their lives they
might be working full-time, theymight have a family, so they're
trying to fit in this athleticpiece, you know, to train for a
marathon, a triathlon, a hundredmile bike race, and so I can
relate to that and I know how tomake the best use of their time
and prioritize kind of allthose, those components of
(49:07):
fitness, to put together aprogram that works well for them
.
And so mid-awecoachingcom isprobably the best way to contact
me and part of what keeps meinvolved in the sport.
I think it's really importantfor me to be able to speak to
all these different endurancesports that I coach through
(49:30):
personal experience, not justthe scientific knowledge.
So I like to dabble andsometimes I kind of steer off
course, because some of theathletes that I coach are doing
these amazing things and I wantto be a little bit more informed
on on what they're doing.
Speaker 2 (49:46):
And so.
Speaker 1 (49:47):
I'm actually going to go back to road triathlon um
this summer.
So I'm going to do a couple70.3 half Ironman events.
I'm also going to do a littlebit of gravel racing.
I'll do some off-road racingwith XTERRA triathlons.
I'll probably do three or fourand I'll get to do some of those
with my kids and then we'llkind of see what else comes up.
(50:10):
But I have a fairly fullcalendar.
Part of it depends on what myboys are racing, because they're
actually going to be racing onan elite circuit with their
triathlon.
Sullivan's going to be racing alot of continental cups.
Porter's going to be racingsome junior cups.
He's just finishing high schooland going into the same program
as Sullivan, so yeah, it'll bepretty exciting.
(50:33):
We'll be kind of all over theplace.
Speaker 2 (50:35):
That's awesome, gosh.
I love how busy you're keepingand getting to race with your
kids and getting to do all thesedifferent events.
I mean, I think that's the goalright.
It's not just to get to dothese ourselves and have these
long careers of fulfillingactivities, but really get to
integrate that experience withour family.
So I love it.
So we'll link to the coachingsite in the show notes as well.
(51:00):
And, yeah, I just want to saythank you so much for all the
time and the wisdom and thestories that you've shared.
This was incredibly insightful,so I'm excited to continue
following along of you and yourboys and your daughter as well,
who is, I'm sure, right therecrushing it as an athlete and a
great human.
And so, yes, thank you againand appreciate you jumping on.
Speaker 1 (51:19):
Thanks, man.
Yeah, thanks for having meAppreciate it.
Popular Podcasts
Cold Case Files: Miami
Joyce Sapp, 76; Bryan Herrera, 16; and Laurance Webb, 32—three Miami residents whose lives were stolen in brutal, unsolved homicides. Cold Case Files: Miami follows award‑winning radio host and City of Miami Police reserve officer Enrique Santos as he partners with the department’s Cold Case Homicide Unit, determined family members, and the advocates who spend their lives fighting for justice for the victims who can no longer fight for themselves.
24/7 News: The Latest
The latest news in 4 minutes updated every hour, every day.
Crime Junkie
Does hearing about a true crime case always leave you scouring the internet for the truth behind the story? Dive into your next mystery with Crime Junkie. Every Monday, join your host Ashley Flowers as she unravels all the details of infamous and underreported true crime cases with her best friend Brit Prawat. From cold cases to missing persons and heroes in our community who seek justice, Crime Junkie is your destination for theories and stories you won’t hear anywhere else. Whether you're a seasoned true crime enthusiast or new to the genre, you'll find yourself on the edge of your seat awaiting a new episode every Monday. If you can never get enough true crime... Congratulations, you’ve found your people. Follow to join a community of Crime Junkies! Crime Junkie is presented by audiochuck Media Company.