#3: Eric Dahl (Elite Backcountry Skier) - Balancing Family and Skiing Alaskan Peaks

Eric Dahl (@ericdahl_ak) is an elite-level backcountry Skier. He's twice skied on Denali, the tallest peak in North America at 20,310', and he's climbed and skied incredible feats in a single push that have required over 30 miles and 10,000' of elevation gain.

When Eric isn't getting rad in the Alaskan backcountry, he's a full-time elementary school teacher, making it extra challenging to balance being an Athlete Dad that maintains family as his priority.

Most importantly, Eric is a Husband and Dad of two young boys.

Eric really epitomizes what I think of when I think of an ambitious Dad that’s working to model healthy ambition through the pursuit of his passions, balance family responsibilities and show up as an incredible Dad and Husband, and find ways to integrate his family into his passions.

In this episode we discuss:

1. We go deep on some of the details of his skiing accomplishments, including skiing on Denali.
2. We talk a lot about risk and how risk tolerances can evolve as we become husbands and fathers, especially as Eric has had some terrifying avalanche stories that he’ll share.
3. We discuss a lot about how we finds balance with his goals and pursuits and how he creatively finds ways to bring his family into the mix as well.

If you are interested in improving how you balance your goals and your family and want some detailed advice on how to do so, OR you want to hear some incredible stories about big climbing and skiing days on Alaskan peaks, then you’re going to love this episode!

Follow Eric and Resources we discuss:

• Instagram: instagram.com/ericdahl_ak
• Skiing Malignant Couloir in Alaska
• Garmin InReach (Satellite Communication Phone)

Support the show

The Athlete Dad Resources:

• www.theathletedad.com
• Ben's Instagram
• The Athlete Dad's Instagram
• The Athlete Dad YouTube

Episode Transcript

Eric Dahl (00:00):
Was skiing below the fixed lines, trying to go check
out.
Rescue, golly, ironically, gotkind of complacent on the
mountain.
It's a big mountain.
We spend a lot of day.
It's in big terrain and allkinds of start to look like
home.
Had something break above me anda rope team before we got off
the glacier, so we were allroped together, came down, swept
all three of us while we wereroped together and took a

(00:23):
thousand foot slide and we wereall partially buried.
That was one that has stuck withme and this changed my wrist
tolerance as a person, likesince that date.
There was like before that wristtolerance and then after that
wrist tolerance.

Ben Gibson (00:40):
Welcome to the Athlete Dad Podcast, where we
explore the intersection betweenphysical pursuits and
fatherhood.
I'm your host Ben Gibson.
If you are an ambitious dad thatis pursuing or looking to pursue
your athletic passions now whileimproving the way you show up at
home, then we have a great showfor you.

(01:00):
This episode is a conversationwith Eric Doll, d a h l.
You can find Eric on Instagramat Eric d a h l underscore ak,
and I highly recommend you gocheck him out on Instagram
because his pictures of hisskiing in Alaska are incredible.
Eric is one of the first peoplethat came to mind when I created

(01:22):
the athlete dad.
He is a highly accomplishedskier and Alaska native, and I
was just struck by how awesomeand challenging many of his ski
pursuits were in some of theseremote.
Areas of Alaska.
But despite those manyaccomplishments, it's a skier.
Something Eric always kept atthe forefront was his family,
his wife, and his two youngboys.

(01:43):
And I think Eric reallyepitomizes what I think of when
I think of an ambitious dadthat's working to model healthy
ambition through the pursuit ofhis passions, while balancing
family responsibilities to showup as an incredible dad and
husband, and someone that findsways to integrate his family
into his passions.
And something that I know manyof you will appreciate is that

(02:06):
Eric doesn't get paid to ski.
Eric has a full-time job as ateacher outside of his pursuits
as a skier.
This means he has to work.
Extra hard around a full-timework schedule to continue to
pursue his skiing of big linesand long days in the Alaskan
backcountry.
Now we go deep on some of thedetails of his skiing
accomplishments, includingskiing on Denali, the tallest

(02:28):
peak in North America twice.
We talk a lot about risk and howrisk tolerances can evolve as we
become husbands and fathers,especially as Eric has had some
terrifying avalanche storiesthat he'll share.
We discuss a lot about how hefinds balance with his goals and
his pursuits and how hecreatively finds ways to bring

(02:50):
his family into the mix as well.
Now, if you are interested inimproving how you balance your
goals and your family and wantsome detailed advice on how to
do so, or you want to hear someincredible stories about big
climbing and skiing days onAlaskan Peaks, then you are
going to love this episode.

(03:11):
We'll include all the picturesand info about specific climbs,
equipment, mountains, andresources in the show notes, and
so without further ado, pleaseenjoy my conversation with Eric
Doll.
So I'm super pumped to talk toyou today.
You've gotta go check out thepictures of a lot of the things
that we're gonna talk abouttoday, because my descriptions

(03:33):
are not at all gonna do itjustice for some of the amazing
climbing and skiing that Ericgets to.
Um, Eric is a rad dad, if thereever was one.
He is a, an Alaska native out ofAnchorage, and most importantly
Eric is a dad.
Two young boys, Finch and Oviehusband to his wife Shoshana.

(03:53):
And when Eric isn't being a dadhusband or working, you can find
him climbing and skiing thesehuge lines in the mountains of
Alaska.
Eric has put up some someamazing accomplishments in terms
of his outdoor endeavors.
Eric has climbed and skiedDenali twice, which is no small
feat.
Denali obviously the tallestpeak in North America over

(04:14):
20,000 feet and way, way outthere.
It's a very remote peak to getto.
He is routinely climbing andskiing.
Some of the most beautiful peaksthat many of us in the lower 48
that ski or do any outdooradventures would consider a
dream trip.
And I'm super excited to hearfrom you, Eric.
Cause unlike some of the dads,we'll hear from, you know, None
of us get paid to ski.
I don't, I don't think it, you,you get paid to ski and so you

(04:37):
have a full-time job.
You have full-timeresponsibilities.
And so it's even morechallenging to strike that
balance between physicalpursuits and family.
And especially with two youngkids under three years old.
You're right in the thick of it,man.
So, Eric, without further ado,I'm super pumped.
Thanks for coming onto the show.

Eric Dahl (04:56):
Yeah, thanks for having me.
That's quite the introduction.
Uh, making me blush a littlebit, uh, hard to hear
accomplishments out loud, atleast for me.
A little, little bit of a.
Flattering a little impostersyndrome when you come on
something called the athleticdad and you think of all these
amazing athletes that I know orlook up to and you're like,
whoa, am I really qualified forthat?
But no, I appreciate it.

(05:16):
Thanks again for having me.

Ben Gibson (05:18):
Yeah, man.
Absolutely.
And I think, uh, yeah, what I'velearned, especially, you know,
looking a lot of your posts islike the more casual and humble
somebody is in, in what theyshare, the, the more rad you
know that they are and some ofthe stuff that you've been up to
lately.
And one thing I want to ask youabout, um, is, is just
incredible.
So you had this great share overEaster weekend and I just

(05:39):
thought the contrast of it wasjust so cool.
So you had on one.
Picture you climbing up anddoing some skiing, and then the
other picture was, uh, the twokids.
Can you, can you tell me aboutkind of what was Easter weekend
looking like for you in, interms of the contrast of those
two events?
Yeah, I think it was, uh,

Eric Dahl (05:58):
yeah, the Easter, so just a couple weeks ago, I, I
thankfully have a very, uh,understanding and supportive
partner who allows me typicallyto get out one day on the
weekend to pursue my passions,which is back country skiing.
So I had, uh, we did Easter onSaturday with family here in
town, the young boys and wifeand, uh, my folks are up here

(06:19):
and her folks.
And so we all got together andhad Easter on Saturday, had a
nice brunch, and then Sunday itwas call up the friends that I
usually get out with and whatcan we get into?
What's the stability?
Like, where, where can we get tothat we can kind of get rad or
get a little scary, um, but ina, in a way that we can make it
home in time for dinner.

(06:39):
So, I

Ben Gibson (06:40):
love that.
Yeah.
Get rad and then get home.
That's, uh, I think the biggestgoal too I have here too is
like, you know, striking thosebalances more and more.
Like, I find it interestingalmost like, uh, an additional
part of what makes somethingchallenging is like, can I get
up early and do something reallycool in the mountains and then
also be at home and, and almostlike, you know, jumping into the

(07:02):
phone booth as Superman andgoing back into dad mode.
So, um, yeah, man, that's reallycool.
I, I'm curious, you know, what,generally when you think about
dad life or personal andpersonal life, you know, what,
what's getting you excited rightnow?
Like, what, what are you excitedabout at home?
And then what are you excitedabout when it comes to these
outdoor sports of yours?

Eric Dahl (07:21):
Um, so home is definitely the oldest who just
turned two.
He is absolutely like toddlertalking.
We're biking, we're skiing.
He can like start to pick up onsome of the pursuits that like
I'm into and it doesn't feelforced, like, Hey, let's go for
two minutes and take a picture.
Like mm-hmm.
We can actually go do thesethings for an amount of time.
Yeah.
Uh, that seems meaningful.

(07:42):
Um, so that's, that's the reallyexciting part for me is that
oldest one really get into itand the younger one's starting
to do things he is about tocrawl.
So that's exciting, um, as well.
So on the family side, that'swhat kind of keeps me going.
Right now I'm a teacher as wellfor elementary school students,
so we're coming up on summerbreak and just having that idea
of a couple months off in a rowwith just the kids and the wife

(08:04):
is pretty exciting.
Uh, personally, we're kind ofwrapping up here in the next
month or so.
Like my favorite time of yearfrom a, uh, recreation
standpoint is mm-hmm.
Spring skiing.
I mean, I'll ski probably tillthe end of June, but the big
objectives.
Locally that are like day trips,kind of tail off as we get into
May.
So been really lucky kind offrom the beginning of March

(08:27):
until now, and going forward thenext week or two to have ticked
off a couple lines that I'mreally excited about and then
looking forward to hopefullymaybe one trip into June, um, as
well.
Something big, maybe a littlebit farther north.

Ben Gibson (08:40):
Yeah.
That's awesome.
Yeah, so lots of great stuffgoing on with the kids and more
lines to tick off.
I, I'm curious, like what, what,when you think of, um, locally
that you still want to get tothis year.
Like what, what comes top ofmind for you?

Eric Dahl (08:52):
Oh, so, so there's a big one here out in GaN arm.
It's one that a lot of peoplehave skied it.
You can actually access most ofthe approach on snow machines.
So it's not like some firstdescent or anything, but it's
one of the largest ones you canview from the road.
And that's Carpathian kind outtathe Portage Valley.
I've walked back to it threeseparate times and it's.

(09:13):
Turned around all three, andit's a 20 plus mile day.
So to get back there, you know,six hours and then say, Hey, the
conditions aren't right and Ineed to be home to my family and
I can't push it or risk it, Ineed to pull the plug and then
walk six hours back, threeseparate times and not get it.
That's pretty high on my listright now.
Just, I don't care if it'sclean, I don't care If it looks

(09:36):
good, I want to get back there,ski it safely and just tick that
one off so I don't have to thinkabout it anymore.
What, what

Ben Gibson (09:42):
made you turn around the other times?
Just conditions weren't right orwhat was going on there.

Eric Dahl (09:46):
Yeah, so all three times have been abbey condition
related.
So a lot of these bigger lines,it's like make sure, like if it
slides you die kind of thing.
Mm-hmm.
So the, there's not a lot ofmargin.
It's not like, oh, maybe ifsomething pops I'll get taken
off my feet.
But I, you know, it's a lot oflike, if this doesn't work, The
outcome is dead.
And that's like a, a non-starterfor me.

(10:08):
Sure.
So it's like, I don't know,maybe one of those days we
could've skied it and got awaywith it.
But I know at least on one ofthe trips we were standing there
hoeing and humming and thenwe're like, I think it's getting
pretty wind loaded and you cansee the ivy conditions
deteriorating.
And then sure enough, the face,we were considering slides right
in front of you.
Mm-hmm.
You're like, well that makes thedecision easy.
Like, let's go home.

Ben Gibson (10:29):
Yeah.
Gosh, it's hard.
I mean, especially as goals getbigger and, you know, objectives
get more complex.
Like, there's a lot of hummingand Han and, uh, is it gonna go,
I don't know, I, where have Iseen this before?
And yeah, it's nice that thedecision was made easily for you
with, with how that went.
So, I, I wanna step back alittle bit and give, uh, some
context on kind of like what alot of these objectives look

(10:52):
like for you.
So we talked about you'veclimbed and skied Denali twice.
Um, like what are some otherlike big accomplishments that
you've done on the mountainsthat really stand out to you and
what, what makes them special?

Eric Dahl (11:04):
So I'm not like some world-class mountaineer by any
means, Denali.
I had to kind of almost gettricked into like, and then from
there kind of turned into alittle bit of a mountaineer.
Um, I wasn't very interested,but I was on a different, um,
couple week expedition in theArctic Refuge with some friends
from college and they're like,Hey, do you wanna do Denali?
And I was like, no, no interest.

(11:26):
And then they said, okay, wellwhat if we try to ski it?
I was like, oh, that's anoption.

Ben Gibson (11:32):
Oh, here's prick up.

Eric Dahl (11:33):
Wait, yeah, wait a minute.
What does that entail?
And, you know, doing a littleresearch and stuff.
And so, um, as far as bigmulti-day stuff like Denali is
one.
Um, it's not gnarly by anymeans, but Sanford I did last
year, which is a fairly largebut straightforward one here in
the wrangles.
Um, and then I've kind of turnedmy attention, especially as I

(11:56):
have two young kids now asshorter trips, but maybe, uh, I
would say, More challenginglines.
Mm-hmm.
Because on Denali, I was skiingjust the west buttress the most
common route, pretty mellowterrain.
Mm-hmm.
Um, and whereas like if I can doa trip here now, it's probably a
day for the climb.
That's the goal is whatever,climb only takes a day.

(12:17):
Mm-hmm.
But it might have big cliffhazard, a big AVI hazard, or
steepness or glacier travel,just different complexities to
make it more interesting thanjust kind of a what you
typically think of in a ski

Ben Gibson (12:28):
run.
Yeah.
A and to give people context,like when you're talking big,
like what, what does big mean toyou?

Eric Dahl (12:35):
So I would say probably the average big line
that we're looking at isanywhere between 2000 and 3000
feet here in the Chuga.
Um, at least on the WesternChuga where we are.
Uh, if you went over to Valdez,you might find some bigger
stuff, but just kind of basedwhere I'm at.
Mm-hmm.
A 2000, 3000 foot line isprobably what we're looking at.
Um mm-hmm.

(12:55):
Which is not monstrous by anymeans, but if you can put, you
know, a choke here, a cliffthere or something interesting
involved in it, I think it can,uh, make it feel bigger maybe.

Ben Gibson (13:07):
Yeah.
And I think the steepness can'tbe understated.
Like some of these peaks arefairly steep and then you have
pretty long approaches to get tothem.
There was one, um, I think itwas the malignant cool wire, if
I'm recalling correctly.
Uh, tell me about just the, the,like logistics of that.
Like how, how many miles didthat take?
Like what was the total, youknow, uh, effort that went into

(13:29):
climbing and skiing that

Eric Dahl (13:31):
Yeah, so that, yeah, that, thanks for bringing that
one up.
I don't know how that slipped mymind.
That's probably one of my mostproud descents.
Uh, we skied it last year.
Again, not like a first descentor anything.
It's been skied plenty by localrippers.
Um, but it's done typically asan overnight or sled access, so
snow machine out to the base ofit.
Mm-hmm.
And.
I don't have a sled and I don'treally have the time to stay

(13:52):
overnight every weekend.
So I approached a buddy andsaid, Hey, would it be crazy if
we went and tried to ski this ina day?
And he's like, oh, great.
What's the mileage?
And I said, I don't know.
I haven't really looked at amap.
And so he mapped it out and itwas going to be about 30 plus
miles round trip, um, withsomething close to 10,000 foot

(14:14):
elevation game throughout theday to ski like a 3000 foot
colar.
That's roughly between I 45 and55 degrees in steepness.
Mm-hmm.
And with sections that arenarrow enough that we down
climbed one of them and had tolike side slip through the other
because your skis wouldn't fitthrough it.

(14:34):
Hmm.
Um, so some big, uh, some bigpotential hazards I guess if
things went south.
But sure.
A lot of that day was justaccessing it.
So we left the trailhead around.
Three, four in the morning andit was started with a seven mile
ski across a lake, which weskated with our backcountry gear

(14:56):
on.
So like, imagine skate skiing onCrossCountry skis just with
heavy backcountry gear.
And then bush whacked up avalley that we thought would go,
but we didn't really have anyinformation on it.
We were just like, I think wecan get through these trees.
And so kind of figured that upthrough the valley, kind of
climbed this valley and over apass that we didn't know was

(15:17):
gonna be wind loaded or not.
Thankfully it wasn't.
But you know, we're like 10miles into a day at now, a pass
that we hope is good and happento be good.
And we get to the bottom of theline at 4:00 PM before climbing,
and I have a check-in time withthe wife at 6:00 PM mm-hmm.

(15:37):
So it was a, it was a prettyquick inReach to say, Hey, I'm
gonna be a little late gettinghome tonight.
Um, we're 15 miles back in themiddle of nowhere and we haven't
even started.
Climbing our line yet.

Ben Gibson (15:48):
Wow, that's awesome.
And it's, it's gotta be, it'snot even just like the physical
fatigue that I imagine, but likethe mental fatigue of all the
uncertainty of like, Trying toassess terrain and figure out
the row and kind of like all ofthis with heavy gear as you're
making your way in.
Um, so did you end up going upthat night and skiing down and

(16:09):
then trekking back?
Or how, how did the rest of thetrip unfold?
So

Eric Dahl (16:12):
we ended up climbing up, I think we topped out around
6:00 PM I cannot take credit forbreaking that trail up.
I was kind of bonking prettyhard.
Uh, luckily the partner I ski alot with is in a little bit
better physical shape than I am.
He took lead as I was kind oftanking there in the middle of
the klar.
Um, but we busted up to the topand topped out around six, skied

(16:33):
it, and then we skinneded allthe way back.
And it, well, he didn't get backto the car till about one in the
morning.
It was like an 18 hour day, 35miles as was our final total.
And just over 10,000 feet.
And, and how soon

Ben Gibson (16:47):
before you did this trip, did you, did the idea come
to you?
Had it always been kind of likeback of your mind, like, I'd
love to get to this or it's, ordid it come together pretty
quickly?
So

Eric Dahl (16:55):
the line itself I'd seen in photos from other local
people's blogs and stuff, andthen I got to see it in person
skiing a valley closer in thepast and been like, oh wow, I
see why everybody would love toski this line.
I can see why the access is justkind of a pain.
Like I think that's the biggerissue is accessing it stings.
Yeah.
Um, but then kind of came backfrom a spring break with a

(17:19):
family trip and had spent a weeknot skiing and had a great time
in Hawaii with the boys, but wasfeeling really thirsty by the
time I got home.
And yeah, some conditions justlooking at the weather were
lining up and reached out to afriend just after work on a
Friday and said like, so what ifwe tried this tomorrow?
Yeah.
And in the matter of a couplehours he's like, yeah, let's go

(17:39):
for it.
And I, you know, I think itworks because I've got.
Uh, just a handful of people Iski with for the last couple
years, and having that kind ofsupport network and group of
people that, you know, you trustin the mountains, you got,
you're on the same page risktolerance wise and assessment
wise, it's really easy to justkind of throw it together in
that sense because of thefamiliarity we have with each

(18:00):
other.

Ben Gibson (18:00):
Yeah, yeah, absolutely.
And, and it doesn't have,doesn't hurt to have friends
that, uh, are down for a 30 mileexcursion on, uh, kind of a last
minute notice.
So that's pretty awesome too.
I've always found that like, uh,there's this, I don't know if
it's just the stereotype with,with people in the outdoors, but
when somebody asks like, yeah,how long is it?
And you're like, ah, I don'tknow.
It's not that far.
It's like usually prettysignificant, so yeah, it's not,

(18:23):
it's not so bad, you know, it'sjust 10,000 feet, 30 miles.
That's awesome.
You, you mentioned, you know,having community and, you know,
friends that you climb with, I,I'm curious like.
You know, I, what I found in myexperience too is it's like what
makes it hard in a lot of waysto continue to pursue goals like
this, or even just to continueto pursue things you love
outdoors is kind of dependenton, like, do I have other

(18:44):
friends that are parents wholike, get it?
Like how, how many of yourfriends or people in your
community that do these thingsare also dads and like, how, how
does that like help in thesetypes of situations?

Eric Dahl (18:55):
Sure.
So like in the Anchoragecommunity as a whole, there's in
a ton of rad dads.
Like, I kind of wanna stateagain, like I'm kind of, I view
myself as kind of an averagedude up here.
Like Alaska has, is like thehome base for rad skiers and
climbers and everything.
So, um, no, there's a bunch ofdads I know, but as far as my,
my partners and the people I'mgetting out with, um, I was kind

(19:17):
of the first.
Dad, I guess with them in theimmediate friend group.
Mm-hmm.
So then I've got all thesefriends who wanna see me skiing
and doing things still and thenare wildly supportive.
They're like, oh yeah, they comesee the kids, they want to know
how they are.
And then when I'm like, Hey, Ican't go because I got a dad,
they're like, yeah, cool.
I get it.
Like we don't have to do that.
Sure, go do your thing.

(19:38):
It certainly helps to

Ben Gibson (19:38):
have the friends that are, that are already
parents, but definitely helps tohave the ones that, you know,
understand that dynamic and pee,be a little more flexible with
it.
So, um, and I feel you onfeeling very average.
Like I, you know, I'll go outon, I'm in Bend, Oregon and I,
I'll put up some stuff that's inno way remarkable but like
remarkable for me more so, cuzI'm like newly, I'm now, I now
live at the mountains where Ican do this stuff more

(20:00):
regularly.
Um, but I'll do somethingthat's, you know, not remarkable
but like pretty cool to me.
And then there's these otherdudes out here that like,
there's a guy called SuperFrenchy and he's like, Climbing
and paragliding off the peaksand then skiing down and he's
just doing this on like all theother neighboring peaks.
And uh, yeah, it makes it looklike I'm like wobbling with like

(20:20):
baby deer legs on my skis doingsome of this stuff.
So I definitely feel you there.
That's,

Eric Dahl (20:25):
I mean, our saying up here is like, is if there's no
day, you're doing the coolestthing.
Yeah.
If you think you're doing thecoolest thing, there's a dude
one valley further, or like onepeak higher.
Like you just never doing thecoolest

Ben Gibson (20:35):
thing.
There's always something, man.
But you know, it's, it'sinteresting.
I think that a lot of it too,and, and especially becoming a
dad, like you mentioned, likeyou've already kind of had to
think about what can I do, uh,time wise, risk wise, difficulty
wise, resource wise, like what,what can I do with, with some
constraints?
Um, and a lot of it is likeconstraints that we are like,
happy to have to red.

(20:56):
Like I wouldn't trade my familyto go do more crazy shit in the
mountains.
Like I, I, I want thatresponsibility and I'm, I'm okay
with the constraints.
It, it puts on things.
Um, but yeah, I think it, it, itre.
Kind of shifts your focus into,into like within this, within
the confines of theselimitations.
Like I can still get pretty radand I can still do a lot of

(21:17):
things that give me that senseof fulfillment.
So,

Eric Dahl (21:19):
and I think just the, you're changing goals.
Like, I don't know, I get someweird ones.
Like there's a, the local firsthike for every tourist is flat
top peak here in Anchorage.
Mm-hmm.
And it is, the stats are prettylame.
It's not that high, it's notthat hard.
Everybody does it.
But I wanted to do it from thehouse, which is like a weird
goal that matters to no one.
Right.
But then I, like, I ran it fromthe house the other summer and

(21:41):
it was like a pretty coolaccomplishment.
That was a handful of hours thatI was like, sweet, that felt
like.
A check mark on some box thatdoesn't matter to anyone but me.
So just having those goals shiftand like getting creative with
GI gives you that likefulfillment of whatever your
like goal or mission orobjective, whatever term you
want to use, that like Yeah.
Hits that box for you.

Ben Gibson (22:01):
Totally.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I think in as many ways peopleare like, what if I did this
that was a little higher orwithout oxygen or whatever it
may be.
You know, a lot of it is like,could I, could I ski this or
could I hike this with a kid inthe pack?
You know?
Yeah.
Could I deal with like, I needto, I need to navigate snacks
and breaks and letting them runaround and all these other
things.
Right?
There's, there's a whole lot ofdifferent, like, man, the
complexity of logistics whendoing things with kids is like

(22:24):
next level, like expeditionlevel

Eric Dahl (22:27):
preparation.
Yes.
Your, your daily things andexpedition, like your daily hike
older than I know, I know you'redoing Denali here soon, is it's
more complex than prepping forthat trip, right?
Getting all the snacks andcoordinated and everything.
If you

Ben Gibson (22:41):
can get your kids out the door in winter, like.
That alone is a feat, like threelayers of clothing.
Everyone's got matching gloves.
Like I, I am in awe sometimesthat we actually get out the
door to even do somethingsometimes.
So yeah, it's, it's prettyremarkable.
I think something I'm reallyexcited to hear about is, is
this idea of balance.
You know, and I think you, youkind of have, have planted a

(23:03):
couple seeds for, for certainthings around how you have that
balance in terms of likecheck-in times and you have a
show who's very supportive ofthese things.
Um, I, I'm curious from apersonal standpoint, cuz this is
the part that I mess up the mostlike, and I think.
Kind of, it's, the struggle isinevitable when, again, we have

(23:24):
new challenges ofresponsibilities and kids, and
like, we also wanna show up asgreat dads and great husbands
and partners.
And like, we don't want thesethings to come at the expense of
our families.
So like, invariably in thepursuit of bigger things, more
complex things, like we're gonnadrop the ball.
And I think I, I dropped theball quite a bit, especially on
my bigger days.
I'm, I'm certainly gettingbetter at it, but like on my

(23:44):
bigger training days or daysthat I'm gonna be out in the
mountains for a long time, like,I'd say like, I'd give myself
like a sea.
Like it, maybe the coffee ismade for everyone else.
Maybe food is made for everyoneelse.
Like maybe I cleaned up thehouse before I left and maybe
I've even communicated likewhere I'm going that day.
Maybe I charged the inReach sothat I can be reachable.

(24:04):
Like, and uh, so I know thatthese are, you know, kind of a
common struggle.
I, I'm curious like for you, um,and I think a lot of people can
probably learn from.
Failures or those really hardlessons when it comes to like,
where we miss.
So like what's, what's beenreally hard for you in terms of
striking that balance and, andmaybe some things of like, what
have you found to work reallywell or what are some parts of

(24:26):
that agreement with show thathelp her feel really good about
giving you that, that freedom togo continue to ski?

Eric Dahl (24:33):
Sure.
So a little background is like,I'm big skier, like before we
ever got together show and Imm-hmm.
And she's not, and she's triedto pick it up over time, but
it's never been her thing.
Um, so we had to work through alot of those.
Check-ins, checks and balancesbefore we even had kids.
So we had a pretty good systembefore that, which is like, I
leave a trip plan before I leaveeach day, who I'm going with,

(24:56):
where I'm going, and a check-intime if I was gonna be late or
to expect me to call by.
And at first I was really bad atit cause I never had to be
accountable to anybody.
I just did what I wanted to do.
Um, and that was a struggle,especially like, I can't imagine
doing that and not having thatbefore kids, because we had
already ironed all that out.
Before we had children.

(25:16):
Mm-hmm.
Um, but yeah, it became to thepoint where it's like I needed
to have an inReach and I neededto have it on me every time
because I was just missingcheck-ins.
Mm-hmm.
And for us, the ability to say,Hey, I'm okay, I'm just gonna be
late, was huge.
Cuz she'd have huge anxietieswhen I would miss a check-in and
she'd have no way to reach me.
Part of that's my history.

(25:37):
Like, I had some close callsspecifically on my first finale
trip that put it in her mindthat, you know, there would be a
time where she wouldn't getahold of me and then maybe never
get ahold of me.
You know?
Yeah.
Uh, so having that to alwayssay, and I always have to like,
I'm gonna be home or I'm late,I'm out of the, you know, the
AVI risk or I'm late, I'm stillin AbbVie terrain, but I'm gonna

(25:58):
check in in an hour.
Something along those lines justto calm the anxiety.
Cuz that was the biggeststressor for us.
US was just like, yeah.
Anxiety over safety.
Um, balancing it with kids, it'sjust been, uh, Sacrifice is the
wrong word.
Cause I think, like you said,you would not give up family
life for anything, right?
Mm-hmm.
It is awesome.
It is such a challenge, but it'sawesome.

(26:20):
But it's been cutting back ondays for me.
So I get one weekend day is kindof our agreement, and then that
may change, right?
Great green light weekend, maybeI get two, or we've got family
stuff, I get none, you know?
Mm-hmm.
Life's a compromise.
But typically I get a weekendday and then I have a standing,
like Thursday night I can goresort skier, backcountry ski
type of thing.
Mm-hmm.

(26:40):
Um, and the thing I've reallystruggled with balance is kind
of the, the more mundanetraining.
Mm-hmm.
And like staying fit things.
Yeah.
Is like pelotons been my thingthat's helped me the most
because mm-hmm.
You don't need much braincapacity.
You either sit down on the bikeor you lift the weights they
tell you to, yeah.
You can be zoned out, you can bespent, it can be morning, it can

(27:02):
be night.
So that's been nice for me, but.
I've never been much of a gymperson.
I'd rather go play outside inthe woods or in the mountains or
something.
So having that being morelimited has been probably the
biggest challenge from abalancing standpoint is changing
how I like go about my fitnessin an everyday mm sense of the
word.

Ben Gibson (27:19):
Especially, uh, as we get older.
I don't know about you man, butuh, man, I feel the aches and
pains if I don't like warm upproperly.
Like my Achilles right now isjust, is so mad at me because I
went running twice and I didn'tstretch beforehand and it's
like, I feel like my leg isabout to separate.
So yeah, the training aspect is,is interesting.
So how, how do you, cuz youcan't pull off a 30 mile day

(27:40):
just coming off the couch, Iimagine that there's some pretty
rigorous training that goes,goes into that.
Like is, is the shift now morethat you're starting to focus
more on gym stuff and as you'renot getting to ski as much

Eric Dahl (27:52):
or.
I mean, ish, you can do somepretty amazing things being
partially off the couch.
And I think, no, and I thinkthat comes from, I would say I
am nowhere close to as fit as Iwas in my early twenties, right?
Mm-hmm.
But I can do a way bigger daythan I could have done in my
early twenties.
And that, I think, isunderstanding, um, how endurance
sports work, how you metabolizeyour food and your caloric

(28:14):
intake and all those things.
Like, I feel a lot more savvy inthat sense, whereas like, you
know, I've got a little bit of adad gut going right now, and,
but like I, I know I can putdown a, you know, we just did a
25 mile loop, uh, and the TNAs aweek ago.
It's like, I know I can domileage and my pace is gonna be
fairly slow.
Mm-hmm.
I know I have to eat X amount ofcalories per hour, drink X
amount of water.

(28:35):
And I just know that like, if Ipace myself through certain
portions, I can stretch a dayout pretty long.
Um, but from a trainingstandpoint, I'm just, especially
winter, it's, I'm trying to doas much touring as possible
because I've found that if I'm.
Just lifting weights.
Like I, I hit the weights hardthis fall and lifted heavier

(28:57):
than I had before.
And then I got on the ski hilland felt strong but slow.
I didn't really feel like anathlete.
I'd done like a lot of powerlifting type stuff and not power
lifting, like, I don't know,heavy weights, low reps type
stuff.
Mm-hmm.
And it just didn't translate theway I wanted it to.
And it was a reminder that like,okay, I should be doing the
things that I'm training for.

(29:17):
And then if I'm not doing thosethings, try to mimic it as best
I can.
Mm-hmm.
So like more tric type stuff forskiing and, um, some lower
intensity, longer durationstuff.
Like if I was gonna go on abike, it should be long and
pretty mellow, just like a longski tour would be.

Ben Gibson (29:32):
That makes a lot of sense.
And for those not familiar skitouring, um, can you help us
understand kind of what is thedifference between ski touring
versus like resort skiing?

Eric Dahl (29:41):
Sure.
So ski touring, you've got skison your feet with skins on the
bottom, and you are walking upthe hill with these skis on your
feet to.
For every amount of feet thatyou wanna ski down, right?
So you are typically walking forhours for one or two runs,
right?
Mm-hmm.
So you've gotta, and it's notfast, right?

(30:01):
Like if you've ever gone hiking,unless you're like some amazing
mountain runner, you're likegoing up the hill at a pretty
reasonable pace that you canmanage all day.
Mm-hmm.
So same thing with ski touring,but now you're adding 10 pounds
on your feet, another 20 poundsin your backpack, so you're,
you're not moving very quick,but it's like an all day kind of
constant walking, hiking pace.

(30:22):
Mm-hmm.
So, versus resort skiing, whichis like incredibly dynamic,
three, four minute stretches ata time, especially if you're
kind of a free ride freestyleguy.
Mm-hmm.
Um, and that's a, that'ssomething I've kind of struggled
with.
Cause that's where I come from.
Resort skiing, flip spins, allthat kind of like aggressive,
um, plyometric, fast twitchmuscle stuff.

(30:43):
And then as I transition intoski touring is like, Realizing
that the way I used to prep forski season needed to change a
little bit.
Yeah.
Because of ski touring being acompletely different muscle
group.
Sure.

Ben Gibson (30:55):
Yeah.
Low and slow.
I will say though, the onlydifference is that if, if
somebody is, uh, if I'm skinningup and somebody is wearing
spandex and they're skinning up,they're gonna be ripping up the
mountain.
Something, something about thespandex tells you that they're,
they're serious.
S schmo, that's probably morewhat it is, is they're like a
schema racer with justabsolutely zero weight in their
skis and their boots, andthey're just ripping up the

(31:18):
mountain.
That's the only other time I'veseen that,

Eric Dahl (31:20):
that's just, that's just mountain runners with
sticks on their feet.
That's a different, that'sdifferent.

Ben Gibson (31:24):
That's not what we're doing.
I remember the other day I was,uh, I was getting a training
run.
I was just doing some like skilaps and uh, skinning up.
And this woman had passed me forlike the sixth time and she had
to be 65, 70, and she's justripping.
And I was like, Hey, what, howmany laps are we doing today?
And she's like, ah, I don'tknow, maybe 10, 12.
And granted, every lap is like1500 feet.

(31:46):
And so this woman is just like,Casually just ripping like a
15,000 plus day.
And she, like I said, she's like65, 70.
And I was like, what?
What are we training for?
Are we just out enjoying themountain?
She's like, I'm just just havinga good time.
And I'm like, wow.
Like these are mountain people.
This is insane.
Like, and yeah, full on.
Yeah, mountain runner with justthe tiniest little sticks

(32:06):
running up the mountain.
So it was crazy.
Um, I know you've done a couplethings.
Coming back to balance, youknow, I've seen a, a picture of
you, uh, at one time skiing witha, a kid in a pack.
I know there's probably hikeswith a kid in a pack.
Like I'm, I'm curious, like, asthe, especially as the kids get
older, um, kinda what are waysthat you're finding to bring

(32:26):
them into the fold on some ofthese, and maybe even, it's not
like you're physically out doingstuff, but maybe with Finch is
he is getting a little, um, youknow, able to kind of understand
more about what dad's doingoutdoors.
You're kind of like storytellingor anything that you can think
of as far as like how you'rebringing family more into the
fold on some of these things.

(32:46):
Sure.

Eric Dahl (32:47):
Yeah.
So we, my wife and I have talkedabout it and as passionate as I
am about skiing, like we wouldhope, I would hope that my kids
are too, but also in a waythat's not forced because like,
it's not her thing.
Like we're not gonna be thefamily that is forced to drive
down Saturday and Sunday to goski the hill every day.
Yeah, maybe if I had my way, butthat's probably not the reality

(33:07):
of it.
Um, it's more of like, I wannaintroduce them to my passions.
Make it fun every time they go.
Yeah.
And then hopefully they becometheir passions.
And so at home, like when hestarted walking, we got him a
little pair of indoor skis andhas like felt on the bottom and
a little binding so he couldcruise around inside.
And then when we got snow, hehas a little trainer pair of

(33:28):
cross-country skis and we justputs around and get'em
comfortable on skis.
He wore ski boots in the house abunch this year.
Um, but then, you know, I triedto take him to the hill this
year and we'd go for fiveminutes and he'd say, dad, you
know, all done.
All done.
And yeah, we were done.
You know, we went home, had hotchocolate, make gummy beers.
It was great.
Um, so I just wanted to like,introduce them and make it

(33:49):
exciting.
And, you know, he knows that I'mout skiing on the days I'm gone
long, like mom's talked aboutit.
He has enough understanding.
Dad ski.
Dad ski.
And then when I get home hewants to see pictures and videos
show me dad ski.
Yeah.
And so I show him what we didthat day and.
That makes him interested cuzthen he, you know, there'll be a
day, there's like was like onethis winter where he is like,
dad, I wanna go skiing.
It's like, yes, I've beenwaiting for

Ben Gibson (34:11):
this.
Cool, let's go.
I think that is one of the most.
Special moments I felt as a dadfor sure, is when it's like,
yeah, I'm in the same boat.
So primarily had spent most ofmy time climbing and I just
remember, you know, sharing, uh,we stopped in Mount Shasta,
which is one of my favoriteplaces in, in California.
And the mountain is so beautifuland just kind of sitting with my

(34:32):
son and pointing out the routeand, and just after that trip,
he would just have these momentswhere he's like, oh, like tell
me about Mount Chester.
Like te, you know, just on hisown unprompted.
And it's like, okay, like, yeahdude, I'll, I'll tell you all
about it.
Like, and just that like pureenthusiasm and that unique
connection you can have withsomething that you're excited
about with them, where it'slike, yeah, like, man, I hope

(34:53):
you're into this, but I don'twanna push it too hard and push
you out of this.
But, uh, man, it sure would becool if I could get on a peak
with you someday, and I'm, I'msure you feel that, you know,
the same way about your voice.
Oh yeah.
When you're looking at, youknow, two year old skiing, I,
I've seen some kids that areskiing at a pretty like early
age.
Like how, what are yourexpectations of like a
three-year-old skiing, like nextski season, is he gonna be

(35:15):
pretty much able to get moredownhill?
Is he going downhill at all thisyear or?

Eric Dahl (35:20):
Yeah, so I taught skiing for a number of years and
I watched the parents thatplugged them in at a very young
age and mm-hmm.
Uh, outside of like somecertain, like fairly advanced
developmental things, you'realmost doing it to do it.
Mm-hmm.
Um, especially if you'replugging'em into lessons, right?
Like there's, there's aunderstanding gap at two and at

(35:41):
like one, and if you're doing itwith, as a parent, I think
there's some benefit there.
There's some connection that,that seems positive.
Mm-hmm.
But for me, I was like, I nextyear, we'll, we'll get on the
slopes.
Hopefully we learn, you know,how to snowplow and wedge a
little bit.
Um, But I don't see like ameaningful, like, Hey, I want to
go spend a big day until he islike four or five, just cuz I

(36:02):
don't wanna push it.
And also because a littleselfishly, like I don't want to
give up a full Saturday.
Um, and knowing that my wifedoesn't really want to go to
the, the ski hill.
Uh, for an extended period oftime anyways, it's like, ooh.
So next year, let's go Thursdaynights, Friday nights, let's,
mm-hmm.
Let's go in the evening.

(36:23):
We'll do it for an hour or two.
It'll be a nice way to break upour week.
And then he gets on some snow.
But we're not committing, youknow, either my ski day or our
family day that we're usuallydoing something else.
Um, To just this like 15 minuteski thing because dad likes to
ski.
So yeah.
You got ways to like fit it inwhere it slots in that doesn't,
is like not forced for thefamily, I

Ben Gibson (36:43):
think.
Sure.
Yeah.
I like that.
I like that approach a lot.
Yeah.
Not forcing it.
And, um, I like that you'rebalancing, making sure that like
dedicated family days stayintact and like these would be,
you know, add-on days that,that, uh, you know, you can make
use of.
So, uh, and I think it's righttoo, like, especially those
early memories of like youmentioned, the, the hot
chocolate, the opre ski, youknow, hot chocolate and just

(37:04):
being in the snow with dad andtrying something new, like those
are probably gonna be somepretty important memories that
I'm sure they'll, they'll takewith them.
Um, any other things that cometo mind logistically when it
comes to like balance?
I love that, that you werechecking in before even specific
terrains and, and you mentionedthe inReach.
The inReach being, uh, kind of aSAT phone you can use with your

(37:24):
phone or just directly from theinReach.
Um, anything else like logisticwise that you've found to be
really helpful in terms of likeyour.
Bigger objectives and kind oflike setting the stage or
checking in or anything thatcomes to mind there.

Eric Dahl (37:38):
Yeah.
Um, you know, doing enough preptime beforehand where I can give
my wife a pretty good idea ofwhat we're doing, whether that's
showing or pictures or maps orthings of that nature.
An idea of how many days andlike, here's what I have in mind
for days for this trip.
And she's like, well actually,when I have both kids, here's
what I have in mind for theamount of days.
And I go, oh, okay, well let'sgo back to the drawing board and

(38:00):
see if, hey, this objective fitsthat timeline or, you know, can
we speed it up or can I stretchit out, kind of thing.
Um, and then another thing thatwas really has been really
beneficial for our relationship,um, even before kids is as
someone who wasn't a skier andhaving me be an avalanche
terrain and having a close callor two with avalanches in one,

(38:23):
in a fairly big way, um, she wasvery nervous about whenever I
went into avalanche terrain andshe went mm-hmm.
And took a Level one course.
Mm-hmm.
Even as a non skier and helpingher as she understood that
terminology more, that helped alot.
So when I was going out oncertain days, I could have a
conversation about it.
Hey, I'm going out.
It's a green light day.

(38:44):
I'm gonna be in some bigterrain.
Okay, you're in big terrain, butI understand it's fairly stable.
Mm-hmm.
Hey, I'm going out.
It's a considerable day.
It's an orange day or a red day.
I'm gonna be on 15 degree bunnyslopes.
Touring through like basicallyflat ground, I'm not putting
myself on or under avalancheterrain.
Mm-hmm.
Okay.
That makes sense that you'regoing, where you're going on

(39:05):
these days.
And then if there's, you know, atime where I, she's not
comfortable, she can voice itand she has, um, an
understanding and a reasonbehind when she voices her
concerns.
So I think that's reallyimportant, meaningful for us.

Ben Gibson (39:18):
That's great.
I love that she took the course.
Yeah.
Cuz understanding the Abby, allthe terminology and how they
come to those conclusions on theforecasts and what that means.
Yeah.
That's, that's huge.
And then also having somebodythat you can sort of bounce, you
know, the ideas off of, here'swhat I'm thinking, you know,
what, what do you think?
Um, I find that my wife is theultimate, ultimate, best person

(39:39):
to like, keep me in check whereshe's like, yeah, you shouldn't
be doing that.
I'm like, I, I thought that thatmight be what it is.
I just needed somebody else totell me I shouldn't be doing
this.
You, you mentioned having somekind of run-ins with an
avalanche.
Do you mind sharing a, the storyabout what happened?
Sure.
So

Eric Dahl (39:55):
I have had some close calls.
I've had two that were prettyminor.
Um, both the minor ones was likeswept off your feet, carried
for.
20 feet or something.
Right?
Like I don't wanna downplay thatcuz you shouldn't be getting
caught.
That's not a good thing to do.
If that happens often, then yourlife expectancy drops
drastically.
Sure.
But two fairly minor ones.
And then my major one was on myfirst Denali trip, um, was

(40:20):
skiing below the fixed linestrying to go check out rescue.
Golly, ironically.
Yeah.
Um, got kind of complacent onthe mountain.
It's a big mountain.
You spend a lot of day just inbig terrain and all kinds of
start to look like home.
Right.
And it's easy to get reallycomplacent up there and had
something break above me and arope team before we got off the

(40:41):
glacier.
So we were all roped together.
Um, came down, swept all threeof us while we were roped
together and took a thousandfoot slide.
And we're all partially buried.
Uh, two of the climbers thatwere not actually part of my
team, but I was roping up withto ski that day.
Their trips were done.
One was non-weightbearing, onewas an alta ski patroller who
after that was like shaken upand was like, yeah, I'm not

(41:03):
climbing anymore.
Like, I don't know how we missedthat.
Like we, we all have thebackground where we should have
assessed that.
Um, hindsight's 2020, but it waslike, sure, yeah, there were
some signs and we messed up.
So that was the big one.
I, I took a couple days off andended up finishing that trip and
summiting.
But um, that was one that hasstuck with me and this changed
my risk tolerance as a person,like since that date.

(41:26):
There was like, before that risktolerance and then after that
risk tolerance.
Yeah.

Ben Gibson (41:31):
Man, when things go south in the mountains, it
happens so fast.
You're in this like peaceful,serene environment.
And especially in a place likeDenali, I imagine it's just.
A surreal moment just beingthere, you know, you're skiing
and looking down at peaks that,you know, are like 14,000 foot
peaks and, um, yeah.

(41:52):
When it goes south, it goessouth fast.
I'm curious, what, what did yousee in hindsight that was like a
sign of like, ah, we shouldn't,we shouldn't have been there.

Eric Dahl (42:00):
I mean, it was a, it, as I've gained more AVI
knowledge and more distance,it's just like staring you in
the face.
Like we've had new snow like 36hours prior and there was a wind
event.
Mm-hmm.
Like X book, wind slab.
Yeah.
And it was like in a catcher's,MIT, in this one area that
would've caught snow.
Mm-hmm.

(42:21):
It's, it's, it's sounding firmas you're going up and it's just
like, no, I don't think it'shollow.
I don't think it's, you know,and when you're playing this, I
don't think, oh, it's not so badthat you're just gonna get
yourself in trouble.
Like, yeah.
I'm now to the point where Ipull the plug very easy on
things.
It's like, mm-hmm.
Oh, there is some wind herelike, All of my close calls have
been wind related.

(42:41):
I'm just out, I'm out on thingsthat sound like it's wind board
or wind effect.
I'm just done.
Yeah.
You,

Ben Gibson (42:46):
you mentioned, you know, your wrist tolerance has
changed from, you know, the, itwas different from that day on
and I imagine it changes quite abit becoming a dad.
Like, I think I even remember Iwas on a climb.
Nothing crazy, just, uh, I wason Rainier, uh, and we just hit
this, first off, I got sick theday before we started climbing,
so that wasn't helpful.

(43:07):
And then, um, We just hit thismassive heat wave, and it was
weird early season, so like, itmeant that none of the routes
really went.
And so we just kind of had tolike barrel our way through
whatever route went the best.
Um, and so we're removing at apretty, pretty fast pace.
And I was sick, and so I startedfeeling extremely altitude sick,

(43:29):
you know, 13 five almost to theSummit Ridge.
And, um, my wife was justpregnant at the time, and I just
remember how quickly I was like,n no, I'm, I'm done.
Like, I'm not, whereas before,yeah, I would've pushed through.
Yeah.
You know, let's, let's keep,let's keep going.
You suck it up, you know, it'snot that it's not that
dangerous, um, but everything onthat climb, even just, you know,

(43:49):
you, you have to c cross laddersover these krevas, like, which I
was looking forward to, but thenyou're on it and you're like,
what am I doing?
Like this is, this is a littleinsane.
And, and so now with two kids,you know, my risk tolerance is
even more different and I feelit all the time.
Can you tell me about anexperience or you know, a time

(44:10):
where you really felt thatinternal dialogue shift where it
was like, man, before I mighthave been cool with this, but
like, something is verydifferent now.

Eric Dahl (44:18):
One time that that's changed for me was actually
ironically this last spring onRainier as well.
Uh, we were up there in May fora friend's birthday.
Mm-hmm.
And to speak to this kind of howrad this friend is, she's like,
I want to go do Rainier in a dayfor my birthday.
Uh, okay.

(44:39):
Uh, when, and she's like,Tuesday and this is like, I'm in
Anchorage getting ready to teachthat Monday it's Sunday night.
And she's like, do you think youcan fly down here and be ready
to go?
It's like, sure.
And so like flew down and we hadlike landed, picked up some
supplies.
We're sleeping in the parkinglot.
All right, let's go climb.

(45:00):
Um, and so we leave super earlyin the morning, we're climbing
and.
We get up to about 12,000 feet.
Um, and it's, there's enoughwind where I was like, Hey, my
old friend wind slab.
And I was, it, I was shocked athow quick it was.

(45:23):
All of a sudden I said, I'mdone.
I'm not going further.
Mike, you guys are more thanwelcome to.
I'm not gonna hold you back.
Like, I would be excited if youtopped out, but this is, I
didn't realize it, but this iswhere my wrist tolerance ends
and I need to go home to twokids.
Mm-hmm.
They're like, oh, I've neverseen you so like adamant before
and we've skied with you lot.
And I was like, yeah, I'm kindof shocked, but like, I'm past

(45:44):
the point of discussion.
I'm now at my comfort zone.
Like, yeah, I'm done.

Ben Gibson (45:48):
Yeah, man, it's that, that, uh, just like we
said, when things go south, itgoes south fast.
I think when that internaldialogue shifts with risk, it,
it happens quick and you'relike, no, like this is, it's
just not my, not my day, likephysically, mentally, especially
on.
A super glaciated peak with thewind and it get Yeah, your, your

(46:09):
ex your, your history with windslabs and then I just, the
glaciers man.
It's just, it's never a goodspot to mess around on.
But yeah, the internal dialogueshifts.
H how do you think about risknow?
Like, and how has that changedspecifically even with the stuff
that you would, you would doday-to-day, maybe before kids
that maybe you look at now withlike a different lens or maybe
you have a more strict standardof like what the conditions need

(46:32):
to be in order to send it?

Eric Dahl (46:34):
I kind of wait for those green light conditions
more now.
Uh, it's, I did not ski anythingbigger, meaningful, like the
whole first part of this winter.
Um, it wasn't a great winter uphere anyways, but there was
still plenty of people kind ofpushing that and I just could
not get to the point to justifyit.
So I think I'm now to the pointwhere I'm fine taking, it's not

(46:55):
risks like calculated, I guess.
Right.
As much as you can decrease theum, The possibility of something
going south the better, right?
Mm-hmm.
So like, sure there's perceivedrisk, but what is the actual
risk?
Yeah.
I don't mind doing things thatare perceived risky if the
actual risk is fairly low.
And then my, my desire to doactual risky things is like

(47:18):
super low at this point.
Yeah.
Like I've picked up mountainbiking recently and I can't get
past like, jumping very high orgoing very fast because like,
there's actual risk versus likepeople like, oh, you're skiing
fast and jumping off things.
I'm like, well, I've done thatfor 20 years.
I know conditions.
There's a perceived risk, butthat's not an actual, like yeah,

(47:42):
the risk is not as great if youhave that experience.
Yeah.

Ben Gibson (47:45):
Yeah, totally.
I, I really relate to that.
The experience makes a hugedifference.
And it's hard too, cuz I thinkespecially anytime you're in the
mountains, there's like, I don'tknow where you would call'em,
like arm share quarterbacks, or,I know every time you see a
climbing accident, you know,invariably if you go to the
comment section on something,it's a lot of critiques about
how unnecessarily risky thatendeavor was.

(48:07):
Right.
Why were they doing that?
What were they thinking?
And it's, it's, I remember thisAlex Hon quote where they talk
about, and granted free solo waslike, absolutely insane.
The ultimate risky, no oneshould do that.
Um, but he had this questionposed to him of like, how do you
think about risk?
Like people say it's extremelyrisky for you to do these
things.
And he is like, well, it'sextremely risky for some dude
just, just off the couch to gotry them, I'm sure.

(48:29):
But like, it's much less riskyfor me to go do these things
because I, I've been doing thismy entire life.
And I think that's where I thinka lot of the experience comes
in, like you said, to where it'slike, well, no, like the
experience carries a lot ofweight when I'm.
Evaluating risk, but it's, it'scertainly still, you know,
changes things as as, as weprogress.
But, uh, it's a, it's a hardtopic and, and one I find myself

(48:51):
kind of constantly pondering,especially as objectives get a
little bit bigger and a littlebit more complex.
Like, how, how do you thinkabout, even as your kids get
older, do you feel like yourrisk tolerance would stay where
it is now or get, get a littlebit lower?
Like where, where's your head onthat?
It's

Eric Dahl (49:06):
probably gonna get lower.
Like, I see a decrease in like,to be Frank Fitness, I'm gonna
get older.
Right.
And if I can't do things in thetime or in the manner that I
like, I can do them now or evenpreviously, then yeah, it
becomes more risky and sotherefore like the activities
will probably change.

(49:28):
Yeah.
Right.
Like if I know I can air, youknow, air this cliff or jump
this thing or do this in the Xamount of hours, but I can't as
I get older, well that'll changepretty drastically.
Um, And then I just think maybea desire, I don't know, like I
used to really thrive off thatadrenaline, like really, really
thrive off of it, probably to anunhealthy standpoint.

(49:49):
Like throwing my body aroundmultiple surgeries, kind of
didn't care.
Um, I've got cooler things athome now, so like mm-hmm.
I like, I do like the feeling ofaccomplishment, nailing some
cool peak, but it, I think itcomes back to like where it
changes, where it doesn't haveto be the gnarliest peak.
Right.
Is it an accomplishment for you?
Kind of doesn't matter whatanybody else thinks.

(50:10):
I've, it's taken me a while past30 to realize no one really
cares what you're doing.
Yeah.
Like from a cool standpoint, youknow, there's some people like,
oh, that was rad, but like, noone cares as much as you do.
Right.
So, like, you better be happywith what you're doing and be
able to look at yourself at theend of the day.
If like something goes sideways,can you justify it to yourself
and your family because Yeah,they, they're the only ones that

(50:32):
are really gonna care at thesame level that you do.

Ben Gibson (50:35):
Yeah, absolutely.
How has that changed for you?
Because that, that, I agree withthat sentiment.
Where I remember when I firststarted getting into stuff like
this, you know, I came from likea very traditional sports
background, and so I, I reallytook it with like the most like
bro mindset where it was like,oh, I'm gonna crush this peak.
Or like, it was just likepushing as hard as you can.
And then I remember, I don'tknow if it was like this

(50:55):
Reinhold Messner quote where hetalked about climbing is like an
artistic expression and I justlike, it was such a foreign
concept, but the more I did it,and especially after having
kids, the more I was like, oh,that's absolutely what it is for
me, is it's like, it's thisinternal like artistic
expression in the pureness ofstyle with which I climb.

(51:19):
Like, can my route and my linebe so clean and be right to the
edge of where risk is to showhow much control I am.
That it, that's, that, it's,somebody would look back at it
and be like, man, that was abeautiful line that you drew
there, man.
The, the footwork was just soclean.
And I remember even watchingguys like Mark Andre Lale un

(51:42):
unfortunately, you know, he tookit a little, little too far, but
you watch those, those clips ofhim climbing and it's just, it
is beautiful.
It is just such a beautifulexpression of what the sport can
be like.
How has that shifted for you,going from like the adrenaline
aspect to more of like,Fulfillment in a different way.

Eric Dahl (52:01):
Yeah.
So I've always approached itfrom a, like, what can I
physically do?
And that's how I, like, I was alittle bit more of the
traditional sports too, till Igot to college and take that
mentality of how, and I think Istill think this way, like an
athlete, an athlete is someonewho's like the physical peak of
their sport and like, I don'tqualify for that.
But that's how I approached it,right?

(52:21):
Like, I need to be the eitherthe fastest up or the fastest
down or the biggest air.
Mm-hmm.
Um, and for me it changed when Irealized that I was not going to
be the fastest down or thebiggest air.
The world is full of insaneathletes.
And so then it became, okay, sohow can I push my own self and

(52:42):
my biggest competitor is me.
Mm-hmm.
So like, what can my body dophysically?
And then if I don'taccomplishment, the only one I
can.
You know, hold accountable asmyself.
So it's like, mm-hmm.
Hey, can I do 30 miles and10,000 feet in a day?
Is that something I can do at mytraining level?
And then like when you, you doit, it's like this really
rewarding feeling.

(53:02):
So I still enjoy the adrenaline,but instead of getting my
fulfillment out of like doingsomething that will potentially
hurt me, it's like, okay, I'mgonna push that body toward the
absolute limit, but before itgets hurt.
Okay, well, we'll call itquilts.
Yeah.
And there's, it's a lot moresustainable approach, um,
especially these like endurancesports versus, you know,

(53:23):
throwing yourself off thebiggest thing you can find.

Ben Gibson (53:26):
Yeah, that's a great way to put it.
Yeah.
It's, it's much moresustainable.
You can, you can ski well intoyour, your ladder years if you,
uh, if you don't keep doing backflips and, and gnarly stuff like
that.
So, I know we have just a coupleminutes left.
Um, you know, I, I know that youhad talked a bit about, uh, you
know, goals and goal setting.
Um, do you have a, like, do you,how, how do you think about

(53:46):
goals for you?
Like, do you think about it interms of, okay, this year, this
season, these are the stuff Iwant to get to.
Is it something that's likereally thought out well in
advance, or is it something thatjust kind of more comes to you
as the year or the seasonunfolds?
Like how, how do you think aboutwhat you want to do next?
Sure.

Eric Dahl (54:04):
So as far as like what's next, it's d like we've
got a a, I just got a list ofpeaks in my notes on my phone.
Like you just keep adding to thelist.
Yeah.
And that list never getssmaller.
It's outta control at thispoint.
Mm-hmm.
Um, but you, it doesn't work ifyou're just like, I'm gonna go
do this on this day because Iwant to.

(54:25):
That's just not how natureworks.
So I, I like to keep the biglist and then check what
conditions they're doing andthen see what pair the two up,
like what the conditions allowto do, and then what does my own
schedule allow me to do.
So it's this big puzzle, likewhat's the family doing?
What's the weather doing?
What's the AVI conditions doing?
What's my fitness doing?

(54:45):
And then, okay, which of theseobjectives fit that puzzle?
Okay, cool.
And then that gets you a try.
That doesn't even get you likename.
Yeah.
That gets you a try.
So there's a lot of like misses,there's a lot of going for
something and not getting it.
And I think that's reallyhumbling.
Especially like when you are.
Not just going out and skiingfor a fun ski day, which a lot

(55:07):
of people just go ski powder cuzit's fun and really enjoyable.
But if you're trying to do aspecific thing, that's where I
think you get a lot of rewardcuz you have to line up so many
different things and then whenit hits, like you're hitting the
jackpot, it's a little bit likegambling.
You're like, yeah, I got it.
Cool.
Yeah,

Ben Gibson (55:21):
I love that.
Yeah.
The triangulation of resources.
Okay, I can do this and this dayand these, okay.
Yeah.
And then I'll swing at it acouple times, knock it off and
then yeah.
That, that self-satisfactionfrom it.
I, I do wanna honor you cuz asmuch as you say you're not an
athlete, you're not doing bigthings.
I think you're doing incrediblethings and I love that you're
doing it with two kids and afamily and a full-time job.

(55:42):
Um, I mean, it's one of thethings that really motivates me
to continue to push and, andgrow as a dad myself, are seeing
guys like you that are doingthis and um, you know, really
continuing to pursue passions ina healthy way, bringing family
into the mix, um, and doing itfor.
Right reasons.
Like I love hearing all thereasons that go into how you
think about things in terms ofrisk and objectives.

(56:04):
And so, um, I do wanna honor youwith that.
I'm curious, you know, there's alot of people that'll be
listening that are coming fromvarious backgrounds that aren't
climbers and skiers.
Um, but I think a lot of thelessons that you've learned and
can share kind of transcendsport.
If you had any parting wisdomfor folks, whether it be how
they show up with their kids,how they strike a balance, how

(56:24):
they continue to pursue passionsover the years, what, what are
things that come to mind thatmight be helpful?

Eric Dahl (56:30):
Sure.
So I, I'm just doing my bestwhen it comes to being a dad,
right?
I'm new at this.
There's plenty of dads that havedone it longer, so I'm gonna
probably.
Foot mine more towards thepassion side because I'm not
gonna try to tell someone whohas an eight year old how to
dad.
That's ridiculous.
I'm just figuring it out.
Um, but some just general thingsthat help me, like either in my
ski prep or as we've had harddays with the kiddos is I kind

(56:53):
of got a couple sayings.
Most of'em are pretty goofy, butone I got from college was pma.
Like on the expedition trip wehad was positive mental
attitude.
It's a choice.
Like you can be grumpy about asituation or you can sit down,
think about it and say, okay,this is why I'm grumpy.
Like let's go.
Positive mental attitude.
And you can fake it.

(57:14):
You can fake it a little bit andyou know you're faking it.
But positivity is a mindset.
So that's one that I always,pma, pma, pma.
Um, another abbreviation big onabbreviations.
Um, It's a kind of joking onewith me and a buddy who are both
dads and we try to train, butyou know, it's hard so we just,

(57:35):
we always say a b t always betraining and it's kind of a joke
cuz we're actually rarely in thegym training like super hard.
But we're out on a random runafter work or we're going, we're
sneaking in a ski tour and we'reboth sucking wind because we
didn't sleep last night cuz ofthe kids.
And you just say a B T, AB b talways be training.
So anything that's kind of hard,just always be training and you

(57:57):
know with a kid you're changingthe blowout diaper for the fist
time and you're just like alwaysbe training, just training for
another diaper blowout.
So yeah, I love that.
Um, and then, The last one, andit's probably my favorite, is
just embrace the suck.
Mm-hmm.
Like things in life can suck.
Whether it's weather on top of amountain, like I spent 10 days
in a tent on my second Denalitrip and didn't summit and then

(58:18):
just came home and it was, itwas awful.
But you just smile and play alot of monopoly deal and you
hang out with friends and you'rejust like, yeah, it sucks.
Oh well, Mike, yeah.
Deal with it.

Ben Gibson (58:30):
And I love that.
I think there's something to besaid about that, where you're
choosing the suck.
Cuz life invariably is gonnasuck.
Yeah.
It's gonna hit you.
So if we can choose some of thatsuffering up front, we're gonna
be so much more prepared forwhen it sucks, when it, when it
wasn't our choice.
But, and I think thoseexpressions go a long way.
There's a, this, uh, altituderunner who has one where it's
sucking and it's always like,uh, you know, hey, it's all good

(58:53):
mental training.
And I think about that too, whenit's like one in the morning
with a diaper blowout and I'mexhausted.
I'm like, Hey, this is kind oflike I'm up for summit day.
You know, I'm gonna be tired andnauseous and doing stuff when
I'm doing, it's all practice,baby.
So I think, I think all the, uh,late nights, uh, with kids
certainly help mountain folkquite a bit.
But Eric, man, this has been so,so, uh, valuable and I'm so

(59:14):
grateful for your time.
And, uh, thank you so much forcoming on and parting some
wisdom.
I hope the rest of ski season isgreat for you and, uh, hope you
get a lot of time with thekiddos out here, this beautiful
spring.
And, um, yeah man, lookingforward to continuing to follow
the journey.
Thanks,

Eric Dahl (59:27):
Ben.

Ben Gibson (59:30):
All right guys.
One thing I'm always gonnachallenge you to do at the end
of these episodes is to thinkabout what is one action that I
can take from the informationthat I just heard?
What is one thing I canimplement that I can improve
upon, that I can do differentlythat is gonna help me take this
information and actually put itinto work?
It's one thing to hear theserich conversations.
It's another thing to use thisinformation to help you improve.

(59:54):
And so that's what I want you todo now, is sit and think about
what is one thing I'm gonna dodifferently, or one thing I'm
going to implement from what Ijust heard, I know that I am
fighting for your attention.
I am fighting across platforms,across other podcasts, across
your daily life.
And here's the thing, I knowthat every podcast you listen
to, they hit you up for reviews,ratings.
Subscribing, all that fun stuff.

(01:00:15):
The thing is, is that reviewsand ratings and subscriptions
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(01:00:37):
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