Nick Bowins & Dan Marrazza: The Role of Social Media in Sports - Episode #251 - The Athletes Podcast

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
I was told in I'm going to say like 2017 or 2018,
I was doing a couple differentinternships again in hockey and
I was told like don't waste yourtime taking pictures of
individual guys.
Take pictures of them withtheir teammates, take pictures
of them celebrating as a groupafter they score, because that's
all the guys are going to post.

Speaker 2 (00:20):
What's going on, guys ?
Producer Ryan, here I'm fillingin for Dave on this intro.
Today we've got the 251stepisode of the Athletes Podcast.
Can you believe that?
That's pretty insane.
We've got an awesome coupleguests on the podcast today.
We have Nick Bowens and DanMarazza.
Nick works for Working inHockey.

(00:41):
It's a subsidiary under HockeyCollective and they help
aspiring professionals work inhockey.
It's a uh subsidiary underhockey collective and they help
aspiring professionals work inhockey.
He posts jobs, has newsletters.
He'll get into more of it inthe actual episode.
And then we have dan marazza,who has worked for a bunch of
different nhl teams, ahl teams.
You'll see he's got a coupleahL jerseys in the back of his

(01:04):
video as well.
These two guys are fantastic.
Coming from me, I'm a person whohas spent a lot of time trying
to work in sports Graduated,took a bunch of time applying
every day to hockey jobs, tosports jobs and what Nick is
doing, what Dan talks about onthis episode.

(01:25):
It's incredible stuff.
It's so useful for someone likeme to have had this when I was
going through this.
It would have been a supergreat resource.
So it's going to be an awesomething for you guys to check out.
I can't wait for you guys to beable to watch this episode and
learn a bunch of stuff there.
Before we get into the episode,I'd like to just give a quick

(01:46):
shout out to Perfect Sports, oneof our sponsors.
I'm actually in the process ofgetting some Perfect Sports
supplements.
I ran out, so need some newones.
Use code AP20 at checkout.
It's going to save you 20%.
This stuff's awesome.
You're going to love it.
Anyways, without further ado,let's hop into this episode.
Enjoy episode 251 of theAthletes Podcast.

Speaker 3 (02:09):
You're the most decorated racquetball player in
US history, world's strongestman, from childhood passion to
professional athlete, eight-timeIronman champion.
So what was it like making yourdebut in the NHL?
What is your biggest piece ofadvice for the next generation
of athletes, from underdogs tonational champions?
This is the Athletes Podcast,where high-performance

(02:30):
individuals share their triumphs, defeats and life lessons to
educate, entertain and inspirethe next generation of athletes.
Here we go.
This is going to be the AthletesPodcast, episode 250-something
featuring Nick Bowens and DanMarazza, specifically talking
about social media, sports,working in social media in

(02:52):
sports.
Maybe that's what we'll titleit.
Gents, thanks for coming on theshow Excited to chat.
Sure, a slightly more uniqueaspect of the world of athletics
, specifically when it comes tosocial media.
Everyone knows who's consumingcontent on a daily basis, that
it is the world that we live in.
You two are experts in thefield, working with the NHL,
their own personal brands,business brands.

(03:14):
Gents, I am honored to have youboth here today, excited to
chop it up.
Nick, why don't we start withyou?
Give us a little backstory onwho you are, why we got you on
the show today and where youwill be in 10 years?
Because, dude, you're a legendin the sport already.

Speaker 1 (03:29):
I appreciate that, david, happy to be here with you
both, and I feel a little leftout of the Jersey game.
We got the Checkers, thePhantoms, we got a beautiful
Team Canada over there.
I feel like I should have donea little bit more of a setup
here.
No, I'm happy to chat here.
Big fan of social media, bigfan of hockey combine the two.
That's kind of been my passionprojects over the last number of
years.
Here I tread loosely with theexpert term, but I appreciate

(03:53):
you dropping that one on me.
I am the co-owner of HockeyCollective.
We're one of the biggest hockeymedia outlets online today.
We've got about 415,000followers on Instagram as our
main platform.
I run that with my buddy,patrick Sheba.
I recently started a brandcalled Working in Hockey, where
I share hockey jobs onlinethrough a newsletter, through

(04:13):
social media, really just tryingto showcase and educate people
on roles and stuff that they maynot find elsewhere.
I've worked for OHL teams.
I've worked for hockey productcompanies that we all know and
love.
I've done a lot of differentlittle side projects and gigs
along the way, but, like you say, love social media, love hockey
.

Speaker 3 (04:30):
Perfect fit for the show.
Expert is the term we're goingto go, with Dan Marazza also an
expert in the field.

Speaker 4 (04:37):
I don't know if I'm the expert either, but I'll do
my best.
I'm Dan Marazza.
I was most recently the leaddigital strategist for the
Arizona Coyotes prior to theteam's departure, where I joined
the club in February.
I hold the interestingdistinction I was the final hire
in the history of the ArizonaCoyotes Back in 2016,.

(04:59):
I was the first hire in thehistory of the Vegas Golden
Knights as the director ofdigital and social.
So I bookended a couple offranchises in addition to a
couple of hockey teams in thedesert there.
I've been on the journalism andthe social side where, either as
an intern or a grad assistant,a couple of my former employers
on the wall behind me in thePhantoms and the Checkers and
the AHL and also the Tampa BayLightning.

(05:22):
In that capacity as ajournalist, I freelance for
Sports Illustrated and ESPN andthe New York Times and the
Hockey News at one point as well, and kind of wore those hats.
And as the industry has grownbecause back when I started,
social media wasn't even a thingyet it just became the thing
that when I graduated collegeIthaca College in 2009, it was
right as teams and companiesstarted to get on social.

(05:44):
So as the industry has evolvedin that way, I've kind of
evolved in that way too, frombeing a communications guru to,
as David would say, a socialmedia expert, but the jury is
still out on that one.

Speaker 3 (05:55):
You guys are way too humble.
This is part of my job.
As I come on, I pump the tiresduring the podcast because,
frankly, this is something thateveryone should be talking about
in some way shape or form.
Before we started recording, wewere talking about the fact
that hockey players,specifically, are not taking
advantage of this, whetherthat's societal norms, whether
that's general managers ormanagement, maybe not letting

(06:18):
guys do their thing as much aspossible.
We're seeing it in the PWHL morethan ever.
We see it in other leagues andother sports.
Can we get a sense from the twoof you as to how social media
should be used as an athlete,given that we're on the Athletes
Podcast here and we're here toeducate, entertain and inspire
the next generation, we need toknow how these athletes can also

(06:42):
potentially build a brand forthemselves, make some additional
capital, spread awareness aboutphilanthropic efforts that
they're doing, maybe charitablesocieties that they're close to
their heart.
Where do you two see thissocial media world being for
sports, for athletes?
Maybe, specifically, we'll talkhockey, because that's both

(07:04):
your backgrounds, becausethey're the ones that have the
biggest opportunity, probably,right yeah, no, very well said.

Speaker 1 (07:10):
I think there's endless opportunity on social
media for athletes, inparticular, from when we were
all two, three, four years oldwatching our favorite teams and
favorite players, to you know,now in our 20s and 30s, watching
games.
Like everybody is fascinated byathletes.
Everybody wants to know whatthey're doing, how they're
thinking, how they're feeling,what their exercises are.
They want to know everythingabout these athletes.

(07:32):
It doesn't matter what sportthey are in, and I think that
that's such an opportunity thatso many other creators or
avenues would kill for theywould kill to have that much
kind of outside interest andappetite for their content.
You look at a Twitch streameror something like they would
kill to have the desirableeyeballs and everything that an

(07:52):
athlete has today.
So I think there's so muchopportunity for athletes to be
creating more on social media.
I think the biggest thing it'sa buzzword, but it's real.
It's got to be organic, it'sgot to be authentic.
You have all seen athletes thatdon't authentically promote
stuff on their social media andeverybody can see through it.
In 2024, almost 2025 here, weall know it now.

(08:14):
It was a different landscape in2015, 2016, when guys were
first getting brand deals anddoing stuff and you know, I
think there's just been a bigshift to more organic, more
authentic approaches and players.
They're able to do that today.
They can showcase their lives.
They can showcase what it'slike when they fly into a
different city to play a roadgame.
They can showcase theirworkouts or their health

(08:36):
routines or whatever it may be.
There's such an appetite forthese athletes to showcase what
they are doing off the ice oroff the field, and I think that
we're really just getting to thestart of it, dan.

Speaker 4 (08:48):
I think, following off that, I think one of the
things that's interesting isthat every athlete always
probably hears their whole lives, that careers can be short
sometimes, that you have a longlife after hockey, and I think
one of the things this clickedto me the other night where I'm
watching TNT and you have PaulBissonette, wayne Gretzky and
Henrik Lundqvist no disrespectto Biz, but I'm like where's the

(09:11):
misfit of this trio?
He would probably be the firstone to say that himself, top
whatever amount of flyers isthat?
Yet he's on the stage with twoof the iconic figures, including
the most iconic figure in thehistory of the league.
And all of that brand buildingstarted when he was building his

(09:34):
social media presence back whenhe played, and that took off to
the point where he has a verylucrative post, probably a more
lucrative post-career earningsthan he did during his career,
which I found interesting.
And I find it interestingbecause there's so many ways
that social media provides aninfinite platform.
In the old days it was TV andthere were a couple networks and

(09:56):
if you didn't get one of thebrand deals for one of the
couple commercials you were kindof locked out of the sponsor
game.
But now there's kind ofunlimited platforms and there's
so many ways you could go aboutit, where I think sometimes in
hockey, which certainly has amore conservative culture than
the NFL or the NBA, that you usethe Bissonette example and you

(10:16):
see a bunch of people kind oftighten up a little bit saying,
well, we can't go and do that.
But you could look at somebodylike Kevin Weeks also, who's
made a name for himself not onlyon breaking news which is not
the first one to break news butdoing his unique videos from the
locations that he does it on,and I think I remember watching
during the free agent frenzy, Ithink last year, it might've

(10:37):
been the year before the yearskind of blend sometimes is that
he actually was drawing morevideo views on his social
platforms than TSN was drawingon TV to watch it, and I think
that is something that's reallyinteresting.
That shows what the power ofthat is and where that could be
and whether that's showcasingyour personality.
I think we've seen that beinggenuine is important but that

(10:58):
could be like biz, that you go alittle more of the checklist
route.
You can go the Kevin Weeksroute of being a little bit more
breaking news and providingvalue in that way, or it could
be something else that somebodyhasn't even thought of that
we've seen that, as manyathletes try to figure out what
they're going to do after theirplaying careers, the brands that
they can build when they havethe platform in their playing

(11:20):
careers can lead to suchopportunities and not to ramble
on all the pitches for theseguys.
But it's even you see, a lot ofpro wrestlers have their own
podcasts.
I feel like almost every formerpro wrestler, whether it's the
Undertaker or Stone Cold, steveAustin or Mick Foley, have their
podcasts is that it opens thedoor for even things like that
of telling stories and thingslike that.

(11:40):
So it really opens a lot ofopportunities, not only to
generate fans, but also togenerate an income.
To generate an incomepost-playing career that, rather
than going back to school andfinding a new profession, that
you could stick her into hockeyif you want.
You don't need to wait for anESPN or a TSN to call you that
you could become an analyst thatmonetizes in your own right.

(12:01):
So I think seeing that andunderstanding that, but also for
many people in the sport tounderstand that you don't have
to be biz to do this, thatthere's other ways to do this,
that you can be a nice, safeversion of authentic, but you
can still drive a lot of value.
I think that's one of thethings that I find so
interesting about where socialmedia can still grow in hockey.

Speaker 3 (12:28):
I love that point.
Biz Lundqvist and G gretzkymaybe not three ideal people
that you'd think of to berunning a panel, but to your
point it's because biz did dothat for a decade prior and he's
built that and there's a demandand I bet you he'd pull more
than tnt would if he was livestreaming right and uh, shout
out to kevin weeks fellow tendattendee Love that.
Good on him.
I think about people like JaredMcCain right now in the NBA,
who is absolutely dominating notonly the sport before he got

(12:53):
injured, but also on socialmedia With TikTok.
He's been doing that for yearsand he's crushing Like hundreds
of thousands, if not millions,of followers.
At this point, a rookie doesn'tgive a damn that his nails are
painting.
He's still going to drop 30 onyou and he's still going to do a
tic-tac dance afterwards tocelebrate.

(13:13):
Why is it that the nba hasallowed this to occur?
Yet the nhl is behind in this,for instance, is there
discrepancy between each leaguebased on management?
Who's involved, ownership?
I'm curious to get your guys'thoughts and why Jared, for
instance, is seeing such success.
Even a Max Homa in golf worldright.

Speaker 1 (13:36):
Yeah, 100%.
I mean, I think, at the end ofthe day, what they're doing is
different than what anybody elsehas done.
Max Homa with his roasting golfswings online.
We hadn't seen that before.
That's somebody going out ofhis comfort zone but, knowing
what he's good at comfortablewith, he's good at cracking
those jokes he's doing somethingthat he would do with his
buddies.
So it's organic, it's authentic, it's genuine.
When he's doing it online,people eat it up because it's

(13:58):
the first time they've ever seenthat.
Right To your point, of thedifferent leagues, they're all
different.
I mean, every sport isdifferent, from hockey to
football, to wrestling, toswimming.
Everything is different in justthe way that you're coached,
the way the mentality is.
That's the unfortunate realityof it.
I was told in I'm going to saylike 2017 or 2018, I was doing a
couple different internshipsagain in hockey and I was told

(14:20):
like, don't waste your timetaking pictures of individual
guys.
Take pictures of them withtheir teammates, take pictures
of them celebrating as a groupafter they score, because that's
all the guys are going to post.
And I think that still ringstrue today in hockey, where
players want to celebrate theirteammates.
They don't want to seem biggerthan the logo on the front of
the jersey, right, all thosethings.

(14:41):
And I look at the Leafs player,the game belt, all those things.
And I look at the Leafs player,the game belt this year maybe
late last year, but this yeartheir post game photos that they
post after every single gamehas three or four guys sitting
there with the belt and they'rehugging each other, their arms
around each other.
It's not just Matthews who wonthe player of the game belt
because he never posted those onhis socials once, but now they
got Matthews with Tavares' armaround him and Riley sitting

(15:01):
beside him and all three of theguys will share that right.
Because hockey is just so kindof ingrained to be team first,
team friendly, put yourteammates ahead of yourself, and
I think teams are starting tofind ways to play into that with
that example of the player ofthe game belt where those three
guys will go share that, becausenow it's just your buddies or
you know, somebody gets their50th goal, the teammate will

(15:22):
share it, or the assist, right.
So that's kind of how I look atit, dan, what do you think?

Speaker 4 (15:27):
Yeah, I think one of the things that's interesting
and I'm a history buff so I haveto use the historical reference
of how I genuinely believe anychange that happens comes from
the top.
You're not going to be.
Biz is a one-off in terms of aguy who's a fourth liner who was
able to build his presence.
Generally speaking, it's thetop guys that change things,

(15:47):
where if McDavid does it orOvechkin does it, they have a
lot more authority to be able todo things and potentially not
get questioned just becausethey've built up such equity in
the sport and amongst theirteammates for what they do that
they have more room.
So the historical one was backin the 1950s, gordie Howe, when
he played for the Red Wings.
The culture was back then thatplayers did not talk about how

(16:08):
much money they made.
So what would happen would beis that they would go into the
contract negotiations and evenif Gordie had second team
all-star great year, the generalmanager would say to him you
know, last year you scored 40goals.
This year you scored only 38.
You're slipping, but we believein you.
We still want you to come.
We still want you on the teamnext year.
How much money do you think youshould get, and he would write

(16:32):
the same amount of money as hedid the previous season $12,000,
$13,000 a year.
Because the way the narrativeof the conversation went, he was
just so grateful and wanted toplay that he just wanted to be
safe and playing for the RedWings.
That being said, then whenother players go into the
negotiations and if they wantmore money, how do you say you

(16:52):
want more money than Gordie Howe?
How can you do that?
So you kind of fall in line too.
So eventually, as we saw in the50s, the 60s and the 70s, a lot
more of that information startedto be disclosed.
And when information started tobe disclosed from the top guys
whether it's Bobby Hall going tothe WHA or other moves of that
nature you saw rising tide,lifted all ships because Bobby

(17:15):
Hall was going to be able toplay where he wanted to play and
Gordie Howe was going to beable to play where he wanted to
play.
I think with social, this issimilar 40, 50, 60 years later,
in that it's going to be reallyhard to have the third liner be
the one who launches their ownthing, or, if you're talking
about a championship belt forthe Leafs, to have a third liner

(17:38):
hold up the belt like he's thechampion of the world is that
it's probably not going to dothat, but if Matthews or
Ovechkin or Crosby or whoeverdid that, it would become more
accepted.
I think what would happen onceit becomes more, once it would
become more accepted, is thatall of a sudden people would
realize okay, this doesn'tnecessarily have to disrupt team
dynamics.

(17:58):
I know hockey likes to prideitself on, we're a team game,
but basketball is a team gametoo.
I mean, the NFL is a team game.
I would never-.

Speaker 3 (18:05):
Soccer.

Speaker 4 (18:06):
I've worked in football also, I've worked in
the NFL.
These guys are all about theirteammates and they would
probably resent the fact that ifhockey were to suggest to them
that they were not ateam-oriented sport the same way
.
But I think hockey pridesitself that they are the
team-oriented sport, notnecessarily seeing that

(18:26):
sometimes some people that othersports face the same dynamics.
They've ventured through thiswall to that next stage and the
world hasn't burned down, thingshaven't gone on fire and
everything's okay.
I think it'll take a couple ofreally top guys to do this in
ways that are not necessarilyoutspoken.
I think, if anything, as Ireferred to earlier, somebody
having a presence that's basedon authenticity, that's not
necessarily snarky or that way,I think would really deliver the

(18:48):
message throughout the leaguethat you can have a presence
that is not biz or isn'tchiclets, that you could do it
in a way that is still fittingthe culture of the sport but
still showing more of yourpersonality.
And once that happens similaras salaries rose in the 50s, 60s
and 70s when the top guysstarted to rise I think when the
top guys would start to rise onsocial, it would bring rising

(19:08):
tide, would lift all shifts.
That's a very deeply ingrainedcultural thing.
That's going to be hard tohappen.
But, that being said, there'sonly a couple top guys.
It only takes a couple of thosetop guys to do that for things
to start to change.
So, especially as we now go intothe next generation of players
that grew up with social, evenmore so I think you're going to
see that.

(19:29):
Or you see younger generalmanagers, like the Kyle Dubases,
who grew up with social alittle bit more and maybe are a
little bit more open to thatpotentially, I think, as you see
the success of those, becausehockey is a copycat league.
Back when teams played theneutral zone trap, everybody the
like the cup champions.
One that played the neutralzone trap, so did everybody.
When the flyers mixed it up inthe 70s, everybody mixed it up

(19:52):
and started brawling.
Is that, I think, when youstart seeing a couple people
having success making money onsocial, I think it's going to be
a light bulb moment for a lotof people saying I need to be
doing that too, and I thinkthat's how it.
I think that's what would haveto happen for it to eventually
grow yeah, and I think evenleagues like the chl.

Speaker 3 (20:07):
I go watch whl hockey here with the vancouver giants
my cousin playing um, and theydo a good job on social and I
see that potentially showcasingto the nhl what's capable of
occurring at a slightly lowerlevel, where there's maybe not
as many implications, not asmany brand partnerships, deals
etc.
Sometimes it just happensorganically too, and to your

(20:28):
point, when that next gen comesthrough, an Angel Reese who gets
a perfect partnership for apodcast Reese's Pieces,
sometimes they just fitperfectly together, right, and
then you can have someone doingan organic podcast bringing
people on, highlighting them,but maybe it doesn't impact
their day-to-day on-courtschedule or their season for
that matter, because they can doit during the off-season.

(20:49):
That was kind of my nextquestion.
To play devil's advocate, ifI'm Lou Lamorello, who
notoriously does not like peopledoing any other social
engagements, speakingengagements etc.
How do I as an athlete or how doI as a general manager,
potentially play and be like heyman, like yeah?

(21:10):
I understand, I hear you.
You want to build your socialmedia, but you know what I own
you from September until March,april and then, but during the
offseason you can do whateveryou want.
Is there a world where athletescould still potentially build
their brands during theoffseason, when they aren't
required to be doing all this?
Like I know, it takes away fromthe travel experience, the

(21:32):
potential to collaborate withothers, but maybe there's a
world where we can still seeboth without the nhl holding on
to their strings.
Does that make sense?
Am I in la la land?

Speaker 1 (21:44):
no, I think that definitely makes sense and
honestly I think I've been downthat path a little bit in the
past.
Uh, one of my first gigs inhockey was with uh gentleman jt
barnett, who I'm sure both ofyou know on social media friend
of the show he's been on outthere.
Yeah yeah, I don't doubt it.
But uh, one of the best guysout there to follow with social
media tips and, uh, you know,played some pro hockey, played
in uh Junior.

(22:05):
His dad's been heavily involvedwith the game for forever.
We started a brand together inCOVID called Triple Deke and we
were doing behind-the-scenes,day-in-the-life type videos of
the upcoming prospects guys whowere 15, 16, 17 at the time to
try to get that wave of playersshow them how they were living,
how they were training duringCOVID.

(22:25):
So, to your point of doing itin the off season we had Bedard,
we had Matty Beneers, we hadMatthew Nyes, we had the Hutsons
, we had everybody.
When they were 15, 16, theywere comfortable getting on
camera working with JT and Ifilming their workout routines
during COVID at home.
To your point of doing it withteammates and stuff you might be
with more buddies in the summerthan you are during the season,

(22:46):
right.
So these guys were.
You know there were six oreight of them skating together
during covid restrictions andyou know they'd go work out
together, they'd go to the lakeafter.
Together they'd film theirwhole day and send it to us.
We were posting that stuff inlike 2020.
So I think the appetite isthere for these young guys.
Again, you both touched on the,the age group who grew up with
social media and understandingsocial media.

(23:07):
I think these guys in everysport, guys and girls are going
to be able to eat that up and,you know, kind of lean into that
a little bit more.
When I talk to companies orbusinesses, I always kind of say
that there's two ways that youcan post on social media you can
entertain or you can educate.
Those are the only two waysthat you're going to get
people's interest.
These days Athletes, kind oflike influencers or actors or

(23:29):
musicians, are in this kind ofthird category where they can
combine both of those toshowcase.
So there's entertain, educateand showcase.
Athletes are able to showcasewhat they do Again, day-to-day,
whether it's the workout routine, the smoothie they make, what
shoes Austin Matthews is wearingto the game.
You know, bedard, what he'sdoing on an off day in San Jose
when he goes down to play,celebrating, like whatever it is

(23:51):
.
Athletes can showcase in theiroff time and I think we're going
to see a lot more of thatbecause there's not many people
that can showcase their day today lives and people care about
it.
If I follow myself around witha camera here at home today
working my day job, doing thison lunch, making dinner tonight.
Not many people are going tocare If Bedard does it.
It's a little bit different.

Speaker 3 (24:12):
It's crazy to me that you say that, though, nick,
because there is an appetite foreven someone like yourself
there is.
I know Connor Bedard isprobably going to get more views
than you, but social media hasa world for everyone to live in,
whether it's the fourth linegrinder, whether it's the first
line center.
Dan, you've probably seen thatfrom the inside results.

(24:33):
Stats Can you speak to, like,for instance.
You know, when you see aClayton Keller come through or
when you see high profileathletes, they might get an
uptick.
But you're also going to seeresults from a biz or from a
Conor Ingram or from insert anyother athlete, because there's
fans of those individuals aswell.
Maybe they're not the superstar, but they still have people

(24:53):
interested in who they are.

Speaker 4 (24:55):
Sure, I think for me the biggest example of that was
when I was at the Vegas GoldenKnights, because at the very
beginning we were gettingplayers from every other roster
in the league.
And I know certainly, as wewould be going through our
analytics, you would see biguptake in Western Pennsylvania
and wonder why maybe we got agoalie from that once played
there or something of that sortthat wanted to, that people

(25:16):
wanted to continue to followalong with.
But I think the thing that I'velearned and I've seen from the
inside of things is that I thinkwe all are in agreement that
hockey players that are inhockey teams that our first
priority is winning and rightnow they look at social.
Can it be done?
Not at the expense of team andwinning, not maybe looking at it

(25:36):
?
Can it be something that helpscreate winning and gives us a
competitive advantage?
What I mean by that is is that Iknow with the Vegas Golden
Knights, when we launched oursocial, we came out firing, we
were leading the league inengagement before we played a
game.
And if you take the followergrowth we have, if you take the
social value of the posts wehave, meaning that you could use

(25:56):
analytic platforms to providewell, what does one follower
mean for a team in terms ofdollars and cents?
I know for us in the first twoyears that I was there meaning
the buildup and then, during thefirst season the value of that
was $35 to $40 million, as Iknow that when it came to the
social value of the postsmeaning engagement and eyeballs

(26:18):
and things like that it was wellover $100 million value of
follower growth plus the valueof that.
Plus that contributes to alsobringing in sponsors which bring
actual money in and not whatsome teams would call
theoretical money.
It brings actual dollars in, andthat doesn't even necessarily

(26:38):
include how it got people intothe building in a brand new
market.
Is that?
I think we would all agree thatone of the things that's
allowed the Vegas Golden Knightsto be successful on the ice is
that they have one of theloudest, most raucous
environments in the league, andcertainly the team's on ice
success has been a leading causeof that.
But that being said, we alsocame out of the gates with a lot

(26:58):
of that stuff as, too.
So the thing is, if you look ata player that you're trying to
sign and you're trying to tellthem why they should come there,
you sell them on the atmosphere.
You could play in thisatmosphere every game, and when
we have success, this is what itlooks like and this is what you
can do.
All of a sudden, now you arebecoming a destination based on

(27:21):
the quality of your content.
The same way, we see a lot ofcollegiate teams, especially in
football and basketball in theUS, that their content teams are
very heavily under-recruiting.
You also have the impact ofmore money in the pockets of the
team equals more money that canhypothetically be spent on
players.
So, just from an X's and O'sstandpoint is that it's always

(27:41):
been cable deals in the past,but obviously cable's kind of
going by the wayside now withstreaming and things like that.
But what are those pieces ofthe pie that make up a team's
finances?
And I strongly believe a lot ofit is through content not only
content and digital and social,but also streaming, things of
that nature that if you're ableto say to an older general
manager that I know you don'tlove social, but it's going to

(28:04):
allow you to sign one moredefenseman if we do this All, of
a suddenyou're now saying, okay, maybe
not so bad.
It's like the meme of the girlturning her face, and it's like,
oh, it changes a little bit.
I think one of the things,though, that the perception that
needs to go into this is andthis is on us who work in social

(28:24):
.
It's not on them to learn, it'son us to educate them on what
this is, not just that this got100 retweets and this is why
this is good for this team, butthis delivered $100 million in
value, or 25, or whatever numberit is.
You can now use this to invest.
They now start saying well,what do you need from us?

(28:46):
How can we compromise on this?
How do we not compromise theintegrity of the team dynamic
and still do this to get thatadvantage?
I think, once people start tounderstand that and that social
is not necessarily just a kid'splay bunch of kids playing on
the phone which I know, growingup in the industry is definitely
the perception that some hockeypeople have of social that it's

(29:06):
not necessarily as respected asbeing a broadcaster or being a
journalist is that.
However, I would argue thatsocial has the ability to drive
a lot more revenue than anindividual broadcaster does or a
journalist does, and I thinkit's on us to establish that and
prove that to, whether it'steams, if you're on the team
side, or players, if you're onthe athlete marketing side or
agency side, of really provingit that way, to really advocate

(29:29):
and show that this is acompetitive advantage on the ice
, not just something done forvanity off the ice.
I think that would be a reallybig step that would play into
the values that hockey alreadydoes have and kind of speak
their language a little bit more.

Speaker 3 (29:42):
So I'm just going to clip that, send it to 120 GMs of
the big four and then I thinkyou myself, nick, will all be
employed shortly afterwards.
I think the combination of theVegas flu as well as the social
media probably was a good combofor the hometown team there.
I know that that was definitelysomething that those first
couple of years teams had to getadjusted to, but it's so true,

(30:06):
dan, couple years teams had toget adjusted to, but it's so
true, dan, like those numbersthere are mind-boggling for
anyone who has no reference towhat social media can bring in
from a brand perspective, toyour organization and to your
point.
Being able to sign a defensemanmight lead to your team making
the playoffs, which meanshundreds of thousands, if not
millions, more dollars money andit just keeps perpetuating it

(30:30):
and it's so.
It's a crazy cycle that if you'dlet it run and go its course,
it's probably going to lead tocrazy results.
Uh, I was going through beforewe started recording and
something like four, five, sixof the top 10 athletes are in
soccer specifically.
Again, team sport, maybe a bitmore individualized, but this

(30:56):
world that we live in now,brands should be taking athletes
and saying, hey, this is whatwe can do with you.
Example here with the athletespodcast, for instance.
Even working with MLSC lastyear, we sold 50-ish tickets
from one podcast to a TorontoArgos game Toronto Argos 30%

(31:20):
discount, nothing crazy.
But you get a Toronto Argonauton the show.
You highlight what they'redoing within the community and
then that leads to, hey, maybe Iwant to go watch that athlete
play next week.
And, crazy, it didn't cost MLSCa cent to have Benoit on the
show, but it led to 50 plustickets being sold.
Why can't we replicate thatacross every organization within

(31:44):
North America and, frankly,across the world for that matter
?
Why aren't organizations opento this?
Dan, you've seen it from theinside.
Do brands need to be bringingthese opportunities to them?
What's the best way for this tooccur?
And then, nick, I'll go to youafter, because I know you've got
it from the brand side.

Speaker 4 (32:02):
Yeah, I mean, I think that one question could be a
podcast almost in itself.
I think one of the things thathappens, though and this is not
unique to working in hockey orworking in sports or working in
anything is that every businessthat I've ever either consulted
for or when I do that too theyalways want to say well, we're
doing things this way becausethis is how they've always been
done, or we can't keep justdoing it because this is the way

(32:24):
things have been done, and whatyou'll see with that is that
and it becomes that cycle whereeverything's connected is,
without more revenue coming in,you're not having an investment
in more people on your team onthe social side, on the content
side.
Without people that are there,you're not able to pay higher
salaries for people like that,meaning you're not attracting
the same talent.
Is that when you get highertalent and you get bigger teams,

(32:47):
that's when you have theability to turn this into weight
, things that are showing thathard money and showing what that
is where I think a lot ofpeople and this is not a shot at
anybody are just doing the bestthey can with the tools that
they have, and sometimes thatjust means you're paddling just
to stay afloat rather thanreally making progress.
I think that is one of thedynamics that can be challenging

(33:10):
, but until you it's almost likeit's the chicken and the egg.
But until you start driving therevenue, you don't necessarily
have the impetus from the clubsto say we're going to invest in
this, because they don'tnecessarily see the degree of
what the value is, and it justcomes round and round and round.

(33:30):
I think the thing that wouldhave to happen for that to
happen in general and this isthe same as a hockey team gets
better when they get bettertalent on their team and more
talent on their team I think thehigher price talent that you
could attract on the businessside, I think and not even
higher price, but just highimpact people I think that will
be the people that will helpelevate things, because I firmly
look at it, that it's on thecontent teams and the
communications teams and themarketing teams to explain this.

(33:53):
It's not on the generalmanager's job to necessarily or
the owner's job to necessarilyunderstand it automatically.
I think it's really on that.
I think that what we've seenwith soccer is that there is an
appetite for this worldwide.
Obviously, hockey is global,not as global as soccer is, but
it's still a very global sport.
But I think the thing that we'veseen is in general and this is

(34:14):
like a fun little factoid that Ialways find interesting is, if
you go on YouTube and you haveYouTubers that do movie reaction
channels, that they will usebits and pieces so they don't
violate copyrights and they willwatch and react to Braveheart
or Gladiator or whatever it is,and you watch the reactions and

(34:34):
they're like, oh my God, orwhatever it is.
It's so authentic that theseget a lot of views.
And no disrespect to any ofthese folks.
These are nobodies.
These are not people that wouldotherwise be known if it wasn't
for their YouTubes.
And nobodies might be a strongword, but they're not of a
platform, of a pro athlete.
Is that?
There's no reason that youcan't have three hockey players

(34:55):
sitting on a sofa after a gameand reacting to watching Mighty
Ducks.
Maybe have one of the Europeanguys who's never seen Mighty
Ducks watch it for the firsttime, or have an American and a
Russian watch Miracle togetheror something like that and see
what the reactions would be.
There's no reason that youcan't have things like that,
that, even if they're nothousehold names.
It could prove the appetitewhere this is interesting, even

(35:16):
if people are not inherentlyfans of the sport.
So I think the long way ofsaying that is that it all ties
back to money again, as thingstend to do.
But I think that it's thechicken and the egg that once a
company starts investing, orseeing the need to invest, and
they start getting proof on itand proof of the concept, you'll
start seeing more success,which is going to branch out to

(35:36):
more things, which is going tobranch out in more ways, and
that's going to lead to moreclubs copying them, and it's
going to be a cycle that way.

Speaker 3 (35:42):
So, based on what you just said there, the numbers
you had said 10 minutes prior 40million, a hundred million
generated for the Vegas goldenKnights.
Nick, you're you've builtworking in hockey right now.
You see the salaries in workingin sport.
You're not making hundreds ofthousands of dollars, typically
as a social media manager or oneof the coordinators, but so

(36:04):
what's stopping a team fromhiring three, four, five, six
social media coordinators andcrushing every other NHL team,
for instance, because, nick, youknow there's availability out
there?
Do you think it would work?

Speaker 1 (36:19):
I think it would definitely help.
I think it would go a long way.
But I'll go back to what Dansaid a little bit ago on it's
educating the people at the topand the right people of this.
It's educating the people atthe top and the right people of
this.
I've worked with junior teamswho have been absolutely gung-ho
done everything right, donegreat partnerships together.
Like you said with theErgonauts example, something so
easy and seems brain-dead simplegot them 50 extra ticket sales

(36:42):
and it's such an easypartnership.
On the flip side, I've workedwith teams who overvalue where
they're at and they say, well,you have to pay us for us to
work with you.
Why would we work with you?
Or the team You're just aplatform that has 40 times the
size of us following Like, whywould we work with you?
Or on the flip side, I've doneit with teams who don't
understand the value of thepartnership and you know they

(37:02):
mess things up and you know kindof just misguided in how they
approach those partnerships andif you don't go full fledged at
something, it's not going towork.
So I think there's a lot ofteams have tried different
things here.
Example again with the Argos.
A lot of teams have tried stuffwith that, but not always with
the right person, not always theright approach, not always the
right way.
I think we need to educate moreon the success stories and the

(37:25):
examples, like both of you havegiven so far, to showcase what
can be done, how it should bedone and, overall, just better
educate on the power of socialmedia, the influence of social
media, etc.
There For my example, I'll usewith working in hockey.
I shared a job post a coupleweeks ago that you know got a
little bit lucky.

(37:45):
It went a little bit viral.
We got call it 275,000 views onInstagram.
I got 5,500 followers directlyfrom that post.
I won't mention the team, butone of the teams who had a job
posting in that reached out.
They weren't happy that theygot so many applicants for their
jobs and it's like okay, well,you had what 36 applicants like

(38:11):
through your posting I amplifiedit.
It hit 275,000 people who yougot to assume most of them are
the right people.
They're following a hockey page.
They saw this hockey page got5,500 new followers for it, so
they're aligning with the page.
They're seeing this.
It's the right audience andyour concern is that now you
have too many applicants to siftthrough for your HR team Like.

(38:33):
I think it's the education andunderstanding of the power of
social media and how it can getyou to the right people.
That's what some of these teamsare missing.

Speaker 3 (38:43):
Heaven forbid you drive too much attention to
someone's job posting.

Speaker 1 (38:46):
Hey, Like oh my gosh, no, no, the recruiter's gonna
have to read resumes today.
How weird is that?

Speaker 3 (38:53):
like that's.
That is, on its own, probablyone of the best stories I've
heard.
Just you know, sorry for doingmy job exceptionally well.
Yeah, yeah, like yeah, it'scrazy.

Speaker 1 (39:03):
It's crazy, but that's just kind of the mindset
of a lot of these teams.
Right, they, like dan, saidthey, they know what they like
and they've done it for 100years and you know that's how
they operate and they don't likechange.
They don't like things out oftheir control, which I can
understand.
But, to quote the great JeffMerrick, tradition is just peer
pressure from dead people.
So tradition, sometimes we canadapt, sometimes we can evolve,

(39:27):
and this is an area that Idefinitely think we should.

Speaker 4 (39:30):
And just to follow up on that too is that I think
sometimes hockey people will seethe NBA as an example and
they'll say we don't want to bethe NBA and they'll just kind of
recoil in that regard.
I think it's understanding fromthe other side of it that, yes,
we want to advocate for this,but that we need to do this in a
measured capacity.
We're not going to be the NBA,we don't have to be the NBA,

(39:55):
that if the NBA is here and theNHL is here, we don't need to be
there.
Maybe we could be there, maybewe could be there, and that's
still more than where we were at.
And I think, along with that, Ithink what happens is is I
think there could be a tendencysometimes and it can be very
easy to do this is to look atother hockey teams.
So you'll see a hockey teamthat will look at its metrics
and compare it to other hockeyteams.
But if you have an original sixteam, they're probably going to

(40:18):
have more followers andimpressions than a team in a
small to mid-market in theMidwest.
They're probably going to andthey'll say we're going great
because, look it, we're numberfive in the league in followers.
They're not necessarilycomparing themselves to the
other teams in their markets andother sports.
They're comparing apples tooranges sometimes.
I think what happens with thatis that it's not necessarily

(40:41):
always realizing what thepotential is, because you think
that we're doing fine already,but it becomes an eco-chamber.
It can become an eco-chamberwhere you're only looking at
each other and you don't see howthings could be.
I know for me in my career whereI was with the Vegas Golden
Knights but before I came backto the Coyotes, I was with the
Draft Kings and the PerthFootball Hall of Fame, which

(41:02):
were in sports but were footballsports betting completely
different.
And I know for me it completelychanged the way I looked at
analytics, completely changedthe way I looked at strategy,
just because not because we haddone anything wrong in hockey.
If anything, there wouldprobably be a lot of things that
folks at DraftKings or thePerfable Hall of Fame can learn
from hockey.
But it exposed me to thinkingthat I had never seen before.

(41:22):
It exposed me to thinking Imean our analytic people at MIT.
They could run circles aroundme.
They were all at DraftKings,they were all from MIT.
It was like Goodwill Hunting'sdown the hall, Just like
dribbling.
They were the HarlemGlobetrotters on analytics just
dribbling the ball around melike crazy.
But even if I picked up a smallkernel of that which I think I
picked up at least a smallkernel of that it kind of showed

(41:44):
that there could be that way.
So I think are important but atthe same time doing it in a way
that isn't just saying okay,we're going to take somebody
from this brand who knowsnothing about hockey at all and
bring them into this and they'regoing to ask the general
manager to do X, y and Z withplayers that the general manager
is never going to agree to ever.
It's people that have theunderstanding of the culture of
the sport but also have beenexposed to the outside enough to
be able to bring in a lot ofthose new ideas and really show

(42:06):
people I said it's all aboutsafety and being measured that
you don't need to be the NBA.
You could be here and you couldstill be better.
It's not about you beating theNBA, it's about you being the
best version of yourself, and Ithink if that was a value that
could really be drilled in theleague just be the best you can
be.
I think that would allow peopleto look at things and say we
don't need a grand slam but abunch of singles is still pretty

(42:30):
good.

Speaker 3 (42:31):
Yeah, and on the point of being the best that you
can be, this social media thatwe've now all been exposed to
allows guys like coach chippy tohave the arguably one of the
biggest followings in the hockeyworld, where I believe his
name's nags the hockey goalieand I like.
There's those social mediacontent creators that I think
might be what GMs are afraid ofguys doing, but it's proof in

(42:57):
the pudding that there's anappetite for hockey content out
there.
You know, a guy like CurtisGabriel, who isn't even playing
right now, is still driving aton of attention with Brock
McGillis, who's going to becoming on the show in a couple
weeks, but there's a huge desirefor this there.
The two of you have proved thisout over the past 40 minutes
for sure.

(43:18):
I'd love to use these last 5-10to have each of you highlight
maybe your favorite creatorswithin the social media world
where you see this space going,if you see or have any
suggestions, recommendations.
And then, finally, we typicallywrap up on the Athletes Podcast
by asking our guests theirbiggest piece of advice for the

(43:39):
next generation of athletes.
Maybe we can add a littleasterisk here to make it social
media specific, so that they cantake advantage of, if they are
a 15 year old, if they are an 18, 12 year old right now,
building their brand, so thatwhen they are the number one
player in the NHL, they can lookback to this conversation and
be like, hey, I am the authorityfigure, I am number one.

(44:00):
I'm going to do this and youguys are going to have to listen
to me because I am the best andyou're not going to cut me.

Speaker 4 (44:05):
The biggest way I see the industry going, and which
I'll lead into advice as well,is the combining of streaming
and content.
I think that for a generation,cable was the primary way that
people consumed informationabout their teams and this is
the first time in 40 yearsthat's changed, I think without
another history lesson for mebut I do believe that history

(44:25):
does repeat itself is that everytime things just before cable
TV, the last time it changed wasradio, when radio became a
thing that completely changedthings, that you always have
somebody who adopts this earlyand does it the right way, that
back in the 30s, when radio cameout, the St Louis Cardinals had
a frequency from Colorado toFlorida and there were no teams

(44:47):
in the South, so they became theteam of Texas and Arkansas and
Oklahoma because they wereavailable.
When cable TV became a thing,the Atlanta Braves were on TVS
and Superstation.
So growing up in New Jersey, Icould watch the Mets, the
Yankees or the Braves, orsomebody in Boston could watch
the Red Sox or the Braves.
Now we have that change again tostreaming and when streaming is

(45:07):
a thing, yes, it's on TV, butit's also so much more mixed to
being online and related tocontent and not only watching a
game for two and a half hoursbut getting snippets and getting
little pieces and getting clipsthat are broken down.
I think the biggest thing I seeis the balance of importance or
the balance of power in termsof importance shifting more to

(45:28):
the content teams as cablebecomes less of a thing, as
cable becomes less of a thing,and I think what it will allow
is teams to really solidifythemselves more, and kind of
piggybacking on that idea ofdriving revenue has the ability
to improve your team Once youstart including what used to be
your cable TV deal now being astreaming deal, whether with
your own platform or with aNetflix or Disney plus or an

(45:51):
Amazon or whoever.
You're not talking big leaguemoney, you're talking now.
And I think that is one of thebiggest things I'm going to that
I think we're going to see overthe next 10 years.
I think, looking back, thatwill be the story of the 2020s
that when we look back on the2020s, I think my advice for the
, for the 15-year-olds, is thatyou've probably been told to be

(46:11):
careful, and it's true, but whatI would say is be intentional
with what you do.
That doesn't mean that youcan't go on social and make a
comment about a TV show orwhatever the case may be.
It doesn't necessarily mean youneed to hire a social team to
create content for you, butstarting to understand, as you

(46:31):
understand what you are as aperson which is part of growing
up at the age that you're at,you're understanding your values
and what they are and what youwant to represent, and really
learning that that's what youwant to represent online, and it
doesn't necessarily have to beevery thought that comes to your
mind has to go on social.
It's fine to keep things in atext message, conversation with
friends, and not only in termsof not wanting to step in hot

(46:55):
water or something of thatnature, but also just in terms
of intentionally building yourpresence so people know what you
stand for, as opposed to just abunch of disjointed thoughts,
is that I think knowing that youcan keep some things online and
some things offline, andunderstanding who you are as a
person, being self-aware, Ithink will allow you to find
that voice that you want to be.

(47:16):
And it doesn't have to be thebiz, it doesn't have to be the
Lundquist, it doesn't have to bethe Brad Martian.
It could be whoever you are.
And I think the same way Ithink back of being that age.
That's when I was learning whatmy values were.
That age that's when I waslearning what my values were.
As you learn, your values istry to have that reflect in your
social uh, if you are on social, because that's how people will
get to know you and when peopleget to know you, that's what

(47:36):
will attract the right sponsors,the right fan base, the right
nature and that genuine nature.
So I would say be intentionalin that regard, but also have
fun while doing it bang on.

Speaker 3 (47:48):
I love, I love it, dude.
Thank you First off for beingso detailed in your answers too.
I love the history lessons.
Those are legit, nick.

Speaker 4 (47:55):
Oh, I'm such a history nerd.
It's, it's.
I worked for the Perfable Hallof Fame, you know.
I could basically be a tourguide there.
I history is kind of my thing.

Speaker 3 (48:03):
Dude it's.
We need that.
We need that we're in such aconsume at all costs world and
everyone's just doom scrollingthere's legs to being able to
listen to what's happening inthe past, the most random
historical hockey note possiblelet's do it oh, I love this.

Speaker 4 (48:18):
so sydney crosby, when he when they won the cup in
2009, the announcement is he'sthe youngest captain ever to win
the stanley.
It's actually not true.
The captain of the 1896Montreal Victorias was a couple
months younger.
His name was Mike Grant.
He was a blacksmith on the sideand he had a mustache like a

(48:39):
steamboat salesman, like asteamboat sailor.
So the fun trivia, though, torelate that to more modern times
, is so Mike Grant who's in theHockey Hall of Fame fame, by the
way, as that was the youngestcaptain to win the stanley hub
in 1896.
He was born only the 1870s isthat his son was a baseball
executive and actually won theworld series in 1969 with the

(49:00):
miracle mets and putting theteam together.
So fun little trivia is that bybeing a nerdy history guy, I
learned that, uh, believe it ornot, a blacksmith Talk about
hockey players coming from allwalks of life the youngest
captain to ever win the StanleyCup was a blacksmith in the
offseason.

Speaker 3 (49:18):
Here he was, nick.
I was like man, vancouverMillionaires, victoria Cougars.
I'm like holy dino.
We're pulling out the archiveshere.
I love it.

Speaker 4 (49:27):
This is what I grew up on.

Speaker 3 (49:28):
I love it.
I love it.
This is so hype.
Uh yo nick, what do you got,man?
I know you've got someknowledge here that you're going
to drop here yeah, I don't haveany, uh, I don't have any cool
blacksmith stories.

Speaker 1 (49:37):
But uh, to answer on uh kind of just creators, like
you said, I think there's a lotof different ways that you can
create content today and I thinkthey all again kind of funnel
back to entertain or educate.
You mentioned Coach Chippy orNegs or those guys.
Those guys do a phenomenal jobof entertaining and I think
there's a large appetite forpeople to consume that and do

(49:57):
that today.
I think of people like KevinWeeks, who we mentioned, or my
buddy, johnny Lazarus, who theycover the game a little bit more
.
So it's more on the educatorand form side of things, but
they still have fun with it,right, they still entertain,
they still keep it loose.
There's a lot of different waysto make content today.
There's no one right or wrongway to do it.
I think that would be a goodmessage to people.

(50:19):
You don't have to followsomebody else's blueprint.
But, with that being said, weall consume content.
I always say that you have toanalyze content to be able to
create content.
If you want to start anewsletter, you better damn well
be reading other newslettersfor three to six months before
that to know what other peopleare doing, to pick up on what
they're doing well, what they'redoing wrong.

(50:40):
If you're starting a job withthe Pro Football Hall of Fame,
check out the Hockey Hall ofFame, check out the Baseball
Hall of Fame, like, check outwhat other people are doing.
What other content is in thatspace?
We all consume content.
We all think we know what goodcontent is.
Or you know, oh, I want to belike that guy.
I want to post on LinkedIn,like Dan does.
I want to start a podcast, likeDavid does.

(51:00):
We all see that stuff.
We consume it, but you have toreally analyze it to understand
it before you start creating it,to understand it before you
start creating it.
Otherwise, you can look likejust a talking head, and that's
what athletes don't want tobecome right.
That's what the teams don'twant their guys or girls to
become today.
So if you consume content,analyze it before creating it.

Speaker 3 (51:20):
Love that, yo.
I think of even a third personthat's breaking down, educating
at the same time, who I wouldn'thave guessed 10 years ago would
start doing.
That is Sean Avery.

Speaker 1 (51:28):
Yeah, yeah, exactly, and it's kind of in that middle
again of entertaining andeducating, right Like he's
having fun with it.
People like listening to him.
He's maybe a bit of a hothead,temperamental, which makes it a
little entertaining.
You know, he went from yellingat people in the bike lane to
breaking down game film.
So there's a million and oneways to make content.

Speaker 4 (51:53):
There's no right or wrong way to do it, but you've
got to understand how and whyothers are doing it before you
can just hop on and besuccessful at it.
One of the things, even echoingSean Avery, I find interesting.
So 10 years ago I actuallyinterviewed him for ESPNcom.
I actually ended up on hisliving room sofa and we
discussed a variety of topics.
And one of the things that Iwas struck by discuss a variety
of topics and one of the thingsthat I was struck by he's a
really smart guy.
As he's a really smart guy andhe's a very thoughtful guy.

(52:17):
In a lot of what he does, Ithink there's obviously the
element that when he played, hewas an agitator and that was his
job and he would do some ofthese things, I think, sometimes
for effect, and that certainlythat bluntness is going to
always be part of his brand.
It's going to follow himforever.
But in terms of just being athoughtful person, the story he
told me that impacted him andit's like you always ask people
what developed you and whatimpacted you.
So the story he told was intraining camp in 2001 with the

(52:40):
Red Wings, is the morning of9-11.
He was on the ice and he knewsomething had happened because
he saw people scurrying around,but he didn't really know what
it was.
So he looked at this as anopportunity to.
He didn't know what was goingon, but he knew that people were
rattled and that might be anopportunity for him to establish
himself.
So he dropped the gloves withDarren McCarty and picked a

(53:01):
fight with him, not realizingthat Darren McCarty's one of
Darren McCarty's friends was aNew York firefighter as this was
happening.
And he said afterwards, when hefound out, he felt like you know
, not right away, but then whenhe moved to new york, he felt
horrible about it because hestarted to understand the impact
of 9-11 and some of thosethings and he kind of understood
that other perspective and hesaid that that was something

(53:23):
that he always kept in mind interms of not knowing what other
people were going through, thathe was on the ice, didn't even
know that 9-11 happened.
Apparently Darren McCarty did.
He could have never imagined,never imagined that the guy who
might be struggling on the otherside had a friend that was a
firefighter in the middle of9-11, what 9-11 could even be.

(53:45):
That he could never evenimagine that.
So just the fact that he wasable to reflect on that, I think
showed a lot of thoughtfulness.
I think the potential is therefor him to grow, but, that being
said, he needs to maybe avoidsome of the missteps that he had
on the microphone, maybe duringhis career.

Speaker 1 (53:58):
A phenomenal book, if you guys get time to check it
out offside.
I think it's called by SeanAvery Great book Love it, love
it.

Speaker 3 (54:05):
Boys, this has been fun.
I knew this was going to bedifferent than conversations
we'd had in the past, over thepast five years, but so much
value in these 52 minutes so far.
Can't thank each of you enoughfor coming on.
The Nick hundreds of thousandsof impressions on every social
platform.
You seem to touch no big deal.
Dan's LinkedIn influencerbasically bookending every

(54:37):
organization in the hockey world, seems like.
Nowadays, where can we find youguys on socials?

Speaker 1 (54:42):
Yeah, no.
Thanks again for having me on,david.
This is a blast and great tochat more Dan here as well.
Like I say, hockey CollectiveInstagram's our biggest platform
, tiktok, twitter, all that funjazz as well.
Uh, working in hockey.
I started about eight monthsago.
Continue to grow that.
So if you're interested inworking in the sport of hockey,
be sure to check it out.
We've got a podcast like this.
We've got uh socials with youknow about 16, 17 000 on

(55:04):
instagram, 7 or 8 000 onlinkedin here, and the
newsletter is my Every week forfree, on Mondays I send every
open job in the hockey industry.
So if you guys are interestedin working in the hockey
industry, check out thatnewsletter.
It's totally free and saves youhours of doom scrolling looking
for jobs on Indeed, linkedin orotherwise.

Speaker 4 (55:24):
I would say for me, I'm on most social platforms and
I'm pretty responsive.
I think, career-wise, linkedinwould be the place to go that
you guys mentioned, where Ishare a lot of anecdotes from my
career and, I hope, somesemi-entertaining stories.
Sometimes, you know, you don'thit on all of them, as I would
say LinkedIn.
I would say I'm also on Twitterthat I try to keep
industry-related.
You can get me on Instagram too, but you're not going to get

(55:45):
much hockey on there.
Instagram too, but you're notgoing to get much hockey on
there.
You're going to mostly get oneof my hobbies is we mentioned
the history stuff.
I like to go to historicallocations and where movies were
filmed and you're going to getmost of that on Instagram.
If you're into that too, youcould get me there.
We can talk hockey if you wanton Instagram, but that's where
you get me, but for the hockeypart, twitter and LinkedIn are
the places to go.

Speaker 3 (56:04):
Hey, it's proof that there's a demand for everything
in this world, whether it'shistory, he never would have
thought that I went actuallywith the Golden Knights.

Speaker 4 (56:12):
we did a caravan through Utah in 2016.
Of course you did, and theSandlot was shown there and most
people didn't know that.
So we get out of our hotel atlike 8 o'clock in the morning, I
get an Uber at like 6.30 totake me over to the Sandlot and
I take, you know, and I pay theguy a little extra money don't
leave and I get out and I playthe soundtrack of the sandlot as
I walk around.

(56:33):
A little lot like going throughsomebody's backyard to get
there.
Get right back.
Oh it comes, bites you ball ishonestly the fact that you had
to go through a backyard to geton there.
It was the most on-brand thingfor the sandlot like that you
could possibly get, and then Iwent back so I would share some
of those things Years later inbusiness settings.
I found that people don'tremember me for my work stuff.

(56:53):
They're like oh yeah, you werethe guy that went to the Sandlot
, or you're the guy who went toI don't know, like the
lighthouse where Forrest Gumpran across the country or
something like that.
In Maine Is that peopleremember you for some of the
darndest things.
So I would agree, even if it'snot hockey-related.
It's all about.
We were talking about buildingwho you are is.
I don't know.
I'm a nerd, so I've built who Iam there, so it helps me build

(57:16):
that.

Speaker 3 (57:17):
Hey, people follow people.
That's what we all can agreewith.
Thank you, boys both, for yourtime.
Appreciate it this has been thepod.
That's the pod.
Appreciate it.
This has been the pod.
That's the pod.
Thanks, boys All right guys.

Speaker 2 (57:28):
That was the 251st episode of the Athletes Podcast.
Hope you guys enjoyed.
Thank you again for tuning in.
I hope you liked what Dan andNick had to say.
Again, can't thank them enough.
They had so much great stuff tosay.
Working in sports, everythinglike that it's going to help so
many people, I think, and whatthey're doing is fantastic.

(57:48):
As Dave always says, this isnot free.
You do have to subscribe.
We do have the athletesagreement, so hit that subscribe
button helps us so much, helpsus keep doing what we're doing,
bringing so much content to youguys and and taking this to the
next level.
We enjoy it so much.
So again, if you can like,subscribe, it helps a ton.
If you got anything to say toin the comments, let us know.

(58:09):
We're always looking forsuggestions on what to do next,
uh, so leave some feedback,leave some comments.
It's it's gonna be great.
Again.
Thank you guys so much.
Talk to you next week.

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Nick Bowins & Dan Marrazza: The Role of Social Media in Sports - Episode #251

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}Nick Bowins & Dan Marrazza: The Role of Social Media in Sports - Episode #251