Jonathan Green on Harnessing AI for Author Success

Episode Transcript
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Carissa Andrews (00:02):
Welcome to the Author Revolution podcast, where
change is not just embraced,it's celebrated.
I'm Carissa Andrews,international bestselling author
, indie author coach and yournavigator through the
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(00:25):
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(00:46):
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(01:09):
digital storyteller, thispodcast is where your author
revolution gains momentum.
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It's time to redefine what itmeans to be an author in today's
dynamic world.
This is the Author RevolutionPodcast, and your author
revolution starts now.
Hey there, authorrevolutionaries, welcome back to

(01:35):
another episode of the AuthorRevolution Podcast.
I am so excited about today'sguest.
You're definitely going to wantto grab your notebook for this
one.
Trust me, it's going to beneeded.
I had the chance to sit downwith Jonathan Green and let me
tell you this guy is an absolutepowerhouse when it comes to
using AI to accelerate yourauthor business.
Jonathan is not only thebest-selling author of ChatGPT

(01:57):
Profits, but he's also beenrunning a successful online
business full-time since 2010.
Plus, he's got over 100,000email subscribers on his list
and he hosts a podcast with over250 episodes.
Talk about impressive right Now.
In today's episode, we'rediving into all things AI and

(02:18):
how these tools can helptransform the way you approach
your author business.
Whether you're struggling withwriter's block, trying to
maintain a consistent writingschedule or just looking for
ways to generate more revenue,jonathan's got you covered.
We'll be talking about which AItools are an absolute must-have
, how you can leverage them tomake money, make your books
better, all the things and, ofcourse, the biggest trends to
keep an eye on as AI continuesto evolve.

(02:39):
Seriously, this conversation ispacked with gold nuggets that
could change your business andyour life.
So grab your coffee, settle inand let's get to it.
Well, hi there, jonathan.
Welcome to the AuthorRevolution podcast.
I'm really excited to bring youon to the show today.
Before we get started, do youwant to tell my audience a

(02:59):
little bit about who you are andwhat you do?

Jonathan Green (03:01):
Sure, I've been a full-time author for about 12
years now.
I started off writing books inthe direct response space, kind
of like you see a commercial ora website and you buy the book
from the website as opposed toAmazon.
In 2016, one of my clients Iwrote a book about potty
training for them in 2015, andthey didn't release it.

(03:21):
They ended up having a problemwith the marketing of the
product and I said, can Irewrite the book and publish it
myself on Amazon?
And it became the number onebook on Amazon for potty
training for an entire year.
And I just started doing moreand more in that space and I've
written, ghostwritten andpenwritten under different pen

(03:41):
names that I have about 300books now and every one of them
has hit bestseller since backthen, since way back in 2015.
My best book served a master hitnumber two on all of Amazon,
and when that happens you startgetting a lot of phone calls.
All the big publishers startedcalling me, but it didn't work
out.
I'd rather have control over mycatalog.

(04:02):
So that's my experience.
And then now I live on atropical island in the South
Pacific with my wife and fivekids and when I'm not working on
books, I do a lot ofghostwriting for clients.
Now I don't write as many booksfor myself because I've kind of
said everything I want to say.
So I ghostwrite three to sixbooks a year, in addition to
really being an influencerteacher in the artificial
intelligence space.

I love that.
I love that so much.
So, when it comes to doing theghostwriting stuff, do you just
kind of do what is called to you, or do you kind of wait?

and see what comes your direction.
I don't do any prospecting orreaching out for clients.
When you only do three to six ayear, you're going to get
enough inquiries.
Probably 80% of the people Italk to hire me.
So the email is usually hey, doyou still do ghostwriting?
That's the most common emailsubject right or someone I'll

(04:54):
just meet through life.
Well, I'll mention it in passingoh, what kind of stuff do you
do?
Just like I mentioned to you,and that's it.
I don't have anything on mywebsite that says for
ghostwriting inquiries here orthis and that, but I mention it
enough that it comes around andit usually comes at the right
time, like right when you needthat cash injection, and go, oh,
this is perfect timing, likethis project.

(05:16):
So I really like doing it.
So I decided I was going tostop writing books.
About two years ago I said nomore ghostwriting.
I've written enough books, I'mdone.
And I started blogging likecrazy again and one of my
friends was like you can't stopyourself.
And I was like, oh my gosh,you're right.
I love writing, so I can't turnit off.
But what I like aboutghostwriting is that you take a

(05:38):
story and you make itinteresting.
You take someone's journey andcreate it into something.
That's just like making a movieabout someone.
In the same way, you'recreating their story in a medium
that they can't do themselvesand it becomes something that's
like immortal.
So I just love that journey oftaking someone's story and
finding the most interestingpart of it and bringing that
forward.

So that's really what I love to do do you
do a lot of like memoirs then,or is it like you said, like the
pottyty training thing, whereit's like just a nonfiction
concept and then you flourish itout?

Mostly this is a great question.
Mostly these days it's somebodywho wants it to be their one
big book that launches orestablishes their authority.
So usually they want to speakfrom stage or speak from larger
stages or use it to grow adifferent part of their business
.
I have had a lot of people inthe past.
I've done a lot of books inbiohacking and weight loss and

(06:33):
different health types ofproducts that are more specific.
Most of my clients these daysit is a variation of memoirs
plus teaching a specific lessonto lead somewhere.

Sure, sure, biohacking is huge right now too
.
Gary Brekka for the win, likeall the people right.
Yeah, so good, I love that.
Okay, so you mentioned yourjourney about living in a
tropical island with your family, which is amazing, incredible,
and I read I think it was inyour pitch to me something about
being fired during a blizzard,before this all happened.
So can you share a little bitabout this transition of going

(07:06):
from being fired in a blizzardto moving onto a tropical island
and, really, honestly, whatmotivated you to become this
entrepreneur that you havebecome?

Yeah, I thought it was my dream job.
I got this job teaching at auniversity running a
multimillion dollar project incharge of six other teachers
massive leap in my career.
A multimillion dollar projectin charge of six other teachers
massive leap in my career.
And I hated it.
You don't realize how muchlarge universities are working
for the government, so there's alot of slow rolling and a lot

(07:40):
of passive, aggressive games.
So someone had turned down myjob internally.
They tried to do a shortbrochure.
She said I don't want that job.
And then they hired me and shewould come by my office all the
time and complain.
She's like oh my gosh, I can'tbelieve.
They got you a new chair.
And I said wait, I didn't get anew chair.
The office had no chair.
That's very different.

It's very different.
I wasn't going to sit on thefloor.

Yeah, you get a customized chair.
I said no, no, no wait, I wasusing a chair from the coffee
room or whatever, so it wasn'tlike a chair and I just got a
chair that had wheels on it so Icould move around the office.
The cheapest $50 Amazon chair.
I'm not familiar.
I wasn't really used to thistype of environment where
there's lots of passive,aggressive games and they would
give me tasks that were supposedto take six months and I would
finish in 30 minutes and thenstart crying because I don't

(08:37):
know how to do that.
I don't know how to turn 30minutes of work into six months.
I didn't really fit in with theculture.
I remember my boss one timesaid, yeah, most people who,
once they work here, they neverleave, and I was like, is that a
threat?
It felt like that's how much I,but you never think of yourself
as an entrepreneur.

(08:58):
We've created a real culture inAmerica where, unless your
parents are inventors orentrepreneurs, you don't think
of yourself as ever becoming anentrepreneur.
And even though I'd done a lotof side businesses and different
things and projects, I neverthought of myself as an
entrepreneur.
But getting fired from that jobwas the best thing that ever
happened to me.
So they fired me during I drovethere in a blizzard and they
fired me and I'm driving homeand I was like just don't crash.

(09:18):
Just don't crash today, likedon't make it worse.
And it was the best thing thatever happened because it kind of
gave me that kick out of thenest to finally take action and
create my dream life.
Sometimes we need thatadditional push that we no
longer have that security.
So we have no choice but tosucceed.

Right.
I think that's so relevant toso many of us because we kind of
like to sit and stick in thatsafety comfort zone so long
until that is the case that wehave to actually push ourselves
out.
And I agree with you on theentrepreneur side of things.
I can't say I ever, I think,even after years of being an
author.
It took me a long time toaccept the idea of being an

(09:59):
entrepreneur myself.
Like I've owned my business.
Well, I think it's beenofficially now five years, but I
was doing it much longer thanthat.
And there are still some dayswhere I'm like is this real?
Am I really this thing?
So it is interesting, it's kindof a strange concept.

Yeah, most authors don't think of
themselves as optioners or don'tthink of it as a business, and
those are the ones who alwaysfail.
I can always tell, becausethere's a certain type of author
who thinks that their jobfinishes the moment they hit end
or the moment they hit uploadon Amazon and I'm like, oh my
gosh, no, you are just starting.

(10:35):
Now, you're at the beginning ofyour job.
So what I really say to peopleis not that I'm an author.
I tell people I'm an authorbecause it's easy for them to
understand what that means.
But really I sell books.
That's really the business.
I mean, it is the business ofselling books, which is
completely a different mindset.
There's a lot of people I'm sureyou encounter this.

(10:55):
They say things like I justwant to write my story, I don't
care if anyone reads my book andI'm like I bet you do.

Yeah, yeah, you know they do.
They're checking their statsevery day.

Oh, I got one wholesale, yeah, and it's
because it's never reallyexplained, because we're used to
the traditional book modelwhere you send the book to the
publisher and then they make allthe sales happen through magic.
But those days don't reallyexist anymore, unless you're
already a celebrity or youalready have a huge following.
Your job is just beginning andselling books is very hard.

(11:30):
It's very competitive.
The number of books I look atthis, there's at least 3,000
books every month get uploadedto Amazon and never get a review
.
They never get a single, evennegative review, and that
number's sure gone up, because Ichecked that a few years ago
and then just constantly goingup.
There are so many books gettingpublished that it's really hard

(11:50):
to get attention and get noise.
Like, how many movies do youhear about every year that you
never go see because it's justtoo long or you don't have time?
Too much?
Yeah, there's too much stuffcoming at you?

Yeah, for sure.
What is your difference inmindset, or what do you perceive
as the difference in mindsetbetween the author who doesn't
succeed then and the one that isactually selling the books?
What's the biggest difference?

There's two things.
The first thing is the authorwho doesn't succeed usually
thinks of themselves as anartist.
They have that idea of like myart form is pure.
I'm a starving artist and youdon't have to be.
That's intentional.
Once you create that frame,then you act out the role you've
created.

Right, I love that.

Then it happens is that they don't approach
their books strategically.
So I will look at before Iwrite a book.
Maybe I'll have 10 ideas andI'll look to see.
Will look at before I write abook.
Maybe I'll have 10 ideas andI'll look to see.
Are people buying books on thiscategory?
Is it popular?
So?
And it's you never know.
So there's different categories.
Like I've got approached aboutmen's health products and people

(12:56):
are buying for the most commonmen's health problem.
Every man is buying pills.
There's commercials for all thetime and I was like, oh, this
is an interesting project andyou look on Amazon, no one's
buying books about it.
So even though my book idea Isaid listen, this is an
interesting idea because it's ahot topic turns out not in
bookstores.
People don't want a booksolution, they want a pill
solution.
Same thing for other categoriesare really tough, like Stop

(13:18):
Smoking.
I did a project and it justeveryone wants the Alan Carr
book.
So sometimes the category islocked in, for if you want to
declutter your home, you'regoing to read the Marie Kondo
book.
It just is the book that solvesthat.
Everyone reads it, everyonegets it and to enter that space
is very difficult because shereally owns decluttering.
So if you don't look first,you're going to just crash and

(13:38):
burn.
And I'll give you some specificexamples.
A friend of mine wrote a bookabout how to quit vaping about
five or six years ago and I saidoh, that's so interesting.
I thought everyone was tryingto start vaping.
I said where did you do yourresearch?
How did you find out thismarket exists?
And he goes what?
And I said oh, okay, nevermind,it's probably just too early.
In 20 years it will probably bean amazing topic niche to be

(14:01):
here just too early because noone's trying to quit yet.
Maybe now people are, but backthen for sure nobody was trying
to start.
So you can end up with theseproblems.
And it's similar when someonewill come to me and they say
listen, here's what I want towrite is a book of erotic poetry
, a children's book, a bookabout saving your marriage.

(14:24):
If someone sees that on yourAmazon profile, they will freak
out.
They will get veryuncomfortable.
We don't like authors who writeabout different topics.

Yeah.

So when you're not thinking about business and
marketing, you don't realizethat you need the same people to
want to buy all of your books.
They might not, but it needs tobe a possibility.
So this is why the mostsuccessful fiction books are all
really long series now like 50,60, 70, 200 books in a series,

(14:53):
because that's how you win infiction.
That's why romance novels allhave a collection of like 8,000
pages of romance novels, becausethey understand the system and
they're approaching it formarketing, as opposed to someone
who's writing just about thethings that interest them that
may not interest anyone else.
So it's really those twomindsets the starving artist and
the non-strategic approach thatI am just going to look at this

(15:16):
from what I want to do.
I'm not going to pay attentionto what my audience wants, and
this kills any business.
No business works when youignore your audience.
Look at all the movies thatlike movie studios and video
game studios closed down everyweek now because they make games
that no one wants to play inmovies no one wants to watch,
and then they're like why are wegoing out of business, right,
right, or your audience?
It doesn't matter what marketyou're in.

That makes total sense.
So do I take it then from theflip side?
The successful ones are goingto be more strategic.
They're going to be utilizingtools.
I noticed on your website youuse Publisher Rocket, or at
least recommend it.
Do you have otherrecommendations on how authors
can be more strategic and bethinking about things in a more
entrepreneurial mindset way?

Yeah, I've been using Publisher Rocket since it
was called KDP Rocket.
I've known Dave for a long time.

We're close to each.

So there's I'm very cautious about the tools
that I recommend because it'sjust, there's a lot of people
whose whole business isrecommend everything and I don't
do that.
So the core important thepublisher, rocket's probably the
tool I've been using thelongest.
I still use, uh, some pluginsthat have around for a long time

(16:23):
, like KD Spy.
I've been using that forever.
That helps me as well, and it'sjust about figuring out how am
I going to sell books?
So you figure out what you'regood at and not good at.
One of my clients, she wrotethis book.
This was a tough one for me.
Her book was like anautobiography, but it was like a

(16:44):
romance novel and like I wasturning red as I was reading the
chapters because she's anintimacy coach, okay.
So I was like I was like, whyare you turning red?
I was like, well, let's, we hadto did.
We did.
But when I'm at the client, Ido all the exercises book.
I did every exercise with mywife, all the different
categories.
We work, that's what I do, andshe was really good looking.

(17:10):
So I was like don't do audiopodcasts.
I look like I look.
So I'll do tons of audiopodcasts, lots of blog posts and
she's doing TV shows and stuffto market her book.
I was like you have an asset, Idon't have.
So you want to look at what'sthe right marketing strategy for
you.
There are people who do reallywell with TikTok, people who do
really well doing interviews,and you have to figure out that
element of where's my market.
So there's that strategy andthen there's the part of it

(17:30):
that's how am I going to makemoney?
If your answer is royalties,you're in really big trouble
because there's no money inroyalties, unless if you're in
fiction, you have to havemultiple books and if you're in
nonfiction, you have to havecourses or something you're
selling behind it.
Those are the two ways tomonetize.
Sometimes people come in and goI'm going to write one book and
I'm going to become amillionaire.
And I was like Danielle isstill writing books.

(17:51):
She writes out a book everyyear.
She's putting out a book everyweek.
Why do you think they're stilldoing it?
They're not doing it for loveof the game, and that's a rude
awakening for a lot of people.
I mean, maybe once in a whilesomeone writes one book and it
hits out of the park.
A friend of mine is doing$100,000 a month in book

(18:12):
royalties from his book, butit's like his 28th book that hit
.
Finally, one just really hitfor him, which is amazing.
But it's very rarely the firstbook, it's very rarely luck.
It's a lot of strategy andlearning what your audience
likes and modifying what youcreate Right.

Well, and I love that we're at this era too,
then, with getting around tothe AI topic, because I've found
personally, ai hasrevolutionized the way that I
look at strategy, the way that Ilook at the way I'm going to
launch something, the way thatI'm going to write something,
the way that I'm going to prettymuch everything.
So you're an expert on thepractical applications of AI in
modern businesses and I want topick your brain about.

(18:50):
You know, what do you see as AIright now, and how is it
transforming the landscape fromwhat you perceive?
For authors, specifically Like,what's the biggest aspect that
people should be payingattention to?

right now we're at the tail end of the phase
where everyone is cranking outai books and trying to get them
uploaded everywhere.
That's gonna.
All of those accounts are goingto be deleted over the next
year, all of those people.
And here's a surprise when youget kicked off of amazon kdp,
it's forever.
There's no forgiveness there,and they used to have.

(19:25):
I used to have a rep at amazonso I booked it so well.
I had a personal rep there whoinvited me to all the programs.
They don't have anyone whoworks in that department anymore
.
It's completely automated, sothere's no one you can go to.
When the computer turns againstyou, there's no person at
department anymore.
So it's really rough if thathappens to you.
But a lot of people are playingthat game and they don't realize

(19:46):
your budget.
My budget for tricking Amazonis way smaller than their budget
for detecting AI content.
There's no comparison.
It's the same people saying, oh, I can trick Google.
It's like their budget for AIdetection is billions of dollars
.
There's no way that's yourbudget for AI trickery.
So what they do is they willwait about six months to a year

(20:10):
while everyone who's going tocheat starts cheating.
Once they learn a way, they'recheating and then they grab
everyone.
We've seen this when they'vedone great sweeps of everyone
who is doing reviews in naughtyways or manipulating kind of
limited naughty ways.
So all of those accounts justdisappear all on the same day
because they do a sweep, becausethey're waiting long enough for

(20:31):
everyone who's going to cheatto cheat.
Once everyone who's going tolearn that method and do it does
it, then they wait.
That's what they're doing.
They're just waiting and that'swhy they've added those
questions.
Now, was your book written by AI, edited by human, all of that
stuff?
So my book, which has a lot ofAI content, anytime it's the AI
talking, anytime it's ChatGP,it's in italics and my narrator
uses a different voice.
So you know the AI content.

(20:52):
It's very clear.
But it's a book about usingChatGPT.
That's the only book I used forit.
So that's the first thing.
That phase is going to end.
So the complete abuse of thetool phase.
It's happening now and it willdisappear.
I'm very aware of that.
The next phase of the tool ispeople using it for the wrong
stuff.
So most people think of AI Iwant AI to do everything for me.

(21:16):
That's the wrong way to do it.
It's really you want it to takewhat you're already doing and
help you to do it faster.
That's where you can do reallystrategic things.
You have to do a rewrite.
You have to do a heavy edit.
You can either have AI write thebook and you edit it or you
write the book and AI edits it.
You can't have it do both.

(21:38):
That's agreed.
Even if the book comes out good, it has no value because if you
can push a button and I canpush a button, why would I pay
for what you push the button andmade happen?
It has no value.
That's why ai art has no value.
So the really good way to useai as an author is for creation,
for a lot of the things thatthere's a lot of steps most
people skip, let's say, whenthey're creating their first

(21:59):
book, like character sheets andso when I create a training, I
can I, when I have AI, write anentire book.
Here's the process I go through.
I say give me seven ideas inthis genre for a book title or
for a book pitch, and it willgive me seven ideas and I pick
which one's the most interestingto me.
So my approach is really chooseyour own adventure.
I'm already affecting itbecause I've chosen which is the

(22:21):
most interesting to me.
Sometimes I'll change a name orI'll change the lead
character's gender back andforth, depends what I'm working
on.
Like, for romance novel, themain character has to be a woman
.
For science fiction traditionalscience fiction it's got to be
a man, like it just 99% of thebooks in the space.
So I again, I'm data driven andthen you have, you work through

(22:41):
it.
So, and then I always thinkabout a series.
So I do all those things.
I say, well, tell me what thenext seven books in the series
could be about.
So I start working throughthose ideas.
Then what I'll have?
The idea.
I say give me a list of all thecharacters in the book and I'll
look at this and I'll removecharacters I don't like, add
characters that I want, buildthem out, and part of this is

(23:02):
it's the creation process.
But the other part is you'redoing error correcting.
Now, if a character appears inthe book who's not on that sheet
, you know something happened.
The next step is to create acharacter sheet for every single
character in the book, whicheveryone teaches.
I don't think anyone actuallydoes it, like I don't.
I've never seen an author whoactually has like a wall of all
the character sheets on the walland we all read the book where

(23:23):
a character switches genders,which is racist, which is eye
color, not intentionally, butbecause the author forgot, or
between books one and two.
This happens all the time andit's like wait, wasn't that the
person's main trait?
So they're left-handed, nowthey're right-handed.
So that stuff is why we havecharacter sheets.
You're supposed to do that, butno one really does it.
Then, from there, I'll do a bigoutline of the book and then

(23:46):
each chapter I'll break it downinto five to seven scenes.
So I'm writing the book thatway.
So I do like mind mapping.
You do the middle and then workyour ways out.
That's when you can be veryeffective.
So before you write anything,you have the entire thing really
planned.
That's critical when workingwith artificial intelligence,
especially because otherwise itwill go off the rails.
So writing from the seat ofyour pants is just the hardest

(24:08):
method to use and there's abalance between if you're
knowledgeable or if you're justpassionate about a topic.
It's really hard to write a bookin a genre you've never
operated in before.
So I was watching a movie withmy kids yesterday and I kept
telling them what was going tohappen in the next scene and
they're like, how, like, how doyou know?
I watch a lot of movies.

(24:28):
It's like if you watch law andorder, if there's a character,
you recognize the actor.
They're the killer, like.
It's like because it's theguest, you always know that's
the bad guy because that's thestructure.
So I've watched so many certainwhereas that I recognize the
beats.
Whereas for me, to write aromance novel is I, my knowledge
is so limited, I've only readthree or four that I wouldn't
get the beats.
Whereas for me to write aromance novel, my knowledge is
so limited I've only read threeor four that I wouldn't get the

(24:51):
beats correctly.
So when I've done books, I'vehired other ghost writers
because I don't know enoughabout that space.
Whereas science fiction, action, of course, business, yes.
So the danger is, whenever yougo outside your area of
expertise you can't tell whenthe ai is doing something weird
or going off the rails.
Like I happen to know that ifyou don't have a happy ending at

(25:14):
the end of your romance novel,you better put it in the
description happily ever after,or you will get really hurtful
reviews.
So I only know that because ofresearch yeah you'll get full
lead like you better tell methat there's gonna be a bad
ending.
I need to prepare for it inother genres.
You don't do that like youdon't tell people what the end.

(25:34):
There's a twist.
You better let me know early onthere's gonna be a twist.
So there, every genre has itsrules and it's the same exact
thing with people designing bookcovers.
How many times have you seen abook cover that's the wrong
genre?
You go.
If I see a cat next to a cakeand there's a knife in the cake,
I know it's a cozy mystery.
If it's a different genre, whatare you doing?

(25:55):
But I see that all the time.
So cover design is one of mybigger pet peeves.
It's the area where people don'tthey go.
Well, I'm just going to besomething completely different
than my genre.
I'm like oh, then people won'tknow what it is.
If people can't tell whatsomething is, they don't pick it
up to figure it out.
So you lose them in that firstsecond.
So the whole process of usingAI is to enhance what you

(26:15):
already know how to do, to helpyou with bouncing around ideas
or organizing things or writingdifferent scenes.
So I could write a romancenovel, no problem, but the
naughty scenes I cannot writebecause I don't have the right
rhythm.

So that's something where I would use an
ai to write those scenes,because but there are a lot of
tools that can't do those sceneseither, or won't do those
scenes I should say yes, youhave to use an open source ai.

So you have to use extral, which is an open
source.
Ai will let you do that forexactly because because I first
time I tried to chat to you hegoes I'm not writing that scene
and my wife goes well, what'sthe point?

You can kind of do workarounds though you can
be like, just do it withoutbeing explicit and then I'll
just kind of edit it in.
It's fine.

There's a whole process where you escalate the
different type of interactionsand you have to think of a
different nickname for the man'sbits and the lady's bits for
every different scene.

Right, there is that yeah.

So because I did , I have a romance series.
It did very well for me, but Ipaid someone else to write it
because and I learned a lot fromit about the structure and the
scenes, how they build, how youbuild tension across a series of
books or a longer book.
So there's always going to be apart that's really hard.
Dialogue is very hard.
The hard part of fiction is notthe descriptions and the scenes

(27:36):
, it's the dialogue, becausethat's really outside of most
people's comfort zones becauseit's so different.
That's the big crossover fromnonfiction to fiction.
So AI can help you a lot and youhave to know which is the right
tool for different things.
And whenever it goes off therails, it's when you give it a
task.
You don't pay attention to whatthe output you're not watching.
That's when it goes off trackand you have to go back like

(27:57):
three hours earlier and go.
This is when it started goingcrazy.
This is when it went off track.
But if you start from thisprocess of, I know the list of
characters, I know the list ofscenes, I know the list of
chapters and the scenes in eachchapter, if you use custom gpts,
too at all to like to put allthe character sheets and all the
information in.

Do you have a custom gpt when you're writing?

I don't do that.
So I do build a lot of customgpts, but not specifically for
writing.
I write.
I'll write one for outliningand I've built a couple of those
for myself and for clientsspecifically for outlining.
But I haven't done a lot withfiction since GPTs came out, so
I did most of my work like sixmonths ago and a year ago trying

(28:37):
ideas.
So I think that it can be veryhelpful.
It depends on, like, yourpersonal situation.
So ChatGPT knows who I am so itcan write in my style.
I don't have to do anything.
I'm already in there and thatwas a surprise because I thought
it would pick the one morefamous Jonathan Green's but I'm
like the eighth most famousperson with my name right now.

(28:59):
So, okay, excellent.
Yeah, it's like A Fault in OurStars, also written by Jonathan
Green, much more famous than me.
There's a famous sciencefiction author.
There's a famous painter.
I know all of them.
I watch the rankings, so I wasreally surprised when it wrote
in my style.

(29:19):
But it's mostly for you to,because you can do it all in one
conversation now to be able tocheck when the AI is going off
track.
People give it different names,what they call going insane, or
dreaming or drifting, and theearlier you detect that because
it will start writing adifferent book and you don't
realize it if you're not payingenough attention.
But I don't think most of usjust want the AI to write the
entire book.

(29:39):
We want it to fill in the partswe're not good at.
So you'll write your book,you'll have an outline and
you'll say you write thedialogue for this scene and
let's work on it together.
Then you get a great result.
But it has to be cooperative.
That's where the magic happens.

Yeah, it's like working with a co-author in a
sense, because you should have agood grasp on your story and
know what you're trying toaccomplish with it, and then
when you interact with the chator the AI tool, now you can work
as a team together.
Like you said, one fills in theelements that the other is not
great at.
Yeah, that's really cool.
So do you have any AI toolsthat you recommend the most for
authors?

So I'm a simple guy.
Nearly every single AI tool inthe market is just run through
ChatGPT's API.
So I believe you really needone text tool and one image
generator.
So I use ChatGPT and Midjourney.
Those are my meat and potatoes.
There's a lot to be said forusing Clod instead of ChatGPT,

(30:39):
so you can try both of them.
They're the same price it's $20a month and then your image
generator is $12 a month.
Those are the really onlythings that you need.
Your image generator is $12 amonth.
Those are the really onlythings that you need.
Everything else is derivativeor just straight up using chat
gbt's api.
Like the odds, every singleauthor specific product out
there is just using chat gbt'sapi.

(31:00):
They're just chat gbt with lessfeatures right, right, I'm
right there with you.

I think chat is probably the most versatile.
I've even gotten to the pointwhere I dropped my mid
journeyney subscription so thatI could just use Dolly, because
it got to the point where Dollywas just as good, if not better,
than Midjourney was.

Yeah, the problem with Dolly is that it
only gives you one image at atime instead of four.
That's true Core programmingthing and it fights you if you
try it.
Try.
It's not meant to ever let youdo more.
That's one of its core laws.
Those came out last.
Someone cracked it.
But the issue is that mostpeople will generate an image in
dolly and the first image theyget they post on social media

(31:37):
and they always look wet.
That's the problem.
Yeah, can do good images, but99 of what you see is the worst
case example.
I very rarely encounter someonewho's good at creating images
with Dolly, whereas mid journeyyou're more likely to create a
good image, even if you have abad prompt.
That's the difference to me.

Yeah, it does require good prompting,
otherwise you get some reallyweird stuff.
You're just like well, okay,that's a little bit strange, but
all right, I appreciate that.
Whatever, I appreciate that.
Yeah, it's interesting.
I haven't used Clod as much.
I use chat pretty much foreverything that I do, but Clod
has a bigger context window soit just helps contain, I think,
the story better if you'retrying to keep it all together,

(32:15):
but otherwise, because I work ifI ever work with chat in any of
my scenes or in any of mynonfiction stuff I'm doing it in
such small, bite-sized chunksthat it doesn't usually
hallucinate and start going offthe rails.
So it's been pretty easy for meto just stick with ChatGPT and
run with it.

Yeah, I'm the same way, but I just happen to
know some people just prefer thetype of answers the cloud gives
and the type of responses itused to be.
The context window was the bigbenefit, but now they have such
big context windows it's likeone can remember 350 pages.
The other one can remember 360pages.

(32:54):
That's not a significantdifference anymore.
The more valuable difference isthat they're finally diverting
the type of results you get, sothey're actually splitting.
They've been doing the samething for two years but now
they're going in differentdirections and that's where it's
interesting.
So some people might justprefer the result, especially
people who write technical.
Most of the things that saythis tool is better about
programming and languages andlogic chain.

(33:15):
So for some people it's abetter tool.
But I just recommend try thefree versions of both and deal
for it.
But yeah, I'm 99% of the timeI'm operating in ChatGPT Same
same.

Okay, so let's talk about your book ChatGPT
Profits, because it delves intomaking money with AI and I know
a lot of authors obviously aretrying to get that to work for
themselves, whether they'rebeing fiction or nonfiction.
So can you give us an overviewof some of your key strategies
that authors could use toleverage ChatGPT?

Sure.
So the overall strategy.
The first thing you should dois look at what do you do every
week, break down how you spend.
However many hours you spendworking whether it's 40 hours
like a traditional job or youstart your own business and
you's as long as it's somethingyou spend one hour a day on and
it requires less than 80% ofyour focus, something you can do

(34:12):
with the television on or whereyou can do where there's music
with words.
Sometimes I can have music withwords and sometimes I can't
have any words and sometimes Ican't have any music.
So there's levels for how Ifocus, so use your scale and
that task.
That takes a lot of your time.
You look at how can I do thisfaster If it's one hour a day?
How can I do this in 10 minutesusing AI?
That's a time saving, so itmight not be the most glamorous

(34:36):
thing.
The most useful ways to use AIis organizing your files so you
can find everything.
That's huge, because we alwayslose stuff.
The second thing is organizingyour emails.
A lot of people think using AIto write your emails is a good
use case.
It's a terrible use case.
What if, instead of having AIwrite 100 replies.
You only wrote four to theemails you actually need to
respond to today.
That's really where the messhappens.

(34:58):
So I use a lot of AI in sortingand there's a lot of studies
that say people spend like 35 to40% of their day answering
email and that informationspecialist, whether you're an
author or content creator, spendup to 15% of every day looking
for a file.

So how do you use it in the sorting aspect of
it?
That's super wild, because I'venever considered using it in
the sorting capacity.

So there are more tools coming out in that
space.
Like for email, I use a toolcalled Spark and there's a
couple of things like SuperhumanAI.
There's different tools foremail that help you to sort what
I like for my computer.
There's a bunch of tools thatare really built around sorting
or finding files on your cloudserver.
They're company-based Everyonewants to be in corporate but

(35:41):
they're adding in their roadmap.
So I use a tool called Finder.
I think it has no E in it orsomething.
I always have a weird spellingthat I grabbed early on because
they said we're going to add afunction where it will search
your old hard drive to help youfind stuff.
So let's say I'm looking forthis happens all the time trying
to think of a word in a chapterthat I wrote seven years ago,
or I can describe it.
So what I really want is the AIto watch every video in all the

(36:05):
folders so that it doesn't justlook at the name of the file to
find stuff.
That's the functionality thatwill be the dream.
It's not there yet.
There is some tool that Ihaven't finished testing that
you can just have it look at afolder on your computer, which
is organize all the files foryou Makes me very nervous,
because what if they do it wrong?
But something I haven'tfinished testing yet, but that's
on my list, that's somethingthat's on my radar and that's a

(36:26):
free, open source tool that doesthat.
That's very cool.
You can also build an automation.
So I have a simple automationIf a file goes into a certain
folder an image, that image willautomatically get compressed,
which is a huge deal when youhave a website.
I have another folder that if Iput something in there, it
turns that PNG into a JPG.
Then it puts it into thecompression folder.

(36:46):
So that's something that I'vedone.
I've converted PNGs to JPGstens of thousands of times over
the past few years.
I just said to chat GPT, what'sa process to automate this?
And then it said are you on aPC or Mac?
I said this is my Mac, I'mdoing this on, and it said here
you go, and I copied and pastedit in five minutes and it saves
me like an hour a week.

(37:07):
It sounds so often the thingsthat make the biggest difference
in your business are thesmallest and most boringest of
tasks, but that made a hugedifference for me.
So I really think that it'simportant to be strategic.
What most people are doing isthey'll grab a tool that looks
cool and then go how can I usethis for my business?
And that's really where you endup making mistakes.

(37:28):
It's far better to take whatyou're already doing and do that
faster than it is to add in anew thing.
A lot of people launch an AIpodcast now or make AI videos
and I say, well, how many videosdid you put out last year?
None.
Then don't look at this part ofthe market.
It's all hype.
You don't need an AI-generatedvideo for your brand because you

(37:51):
don't do that.
That's not something you'realready doing.
Far better, to help it, you canhave an AI do things like help
you practice for a podcastinterview in case you get
nervous.
My favorite use case is forediting, so I use AI content to
edit my videos all the time.
It saves me a huge amount oftime.
All of that stuff like Descriptis my third favorite tool.

(38:14):
If you're doing anything withvideo.
They have the best AI on themarket.
I will take a video and Irecord into Descript now so it
saves me a bunch of time and itwill find all the repeats, find
all the times you say the wordsyou don't want to say and just
delete them with clicking onebutton.
That saves you a huge amount oftime.
It has the best AI audioenhance, the best AI green

(38:35):
screen removal, the best all ofthe stuff for formatting and
editing, and you edit by text soyou can read it without playing
the video.
So it lets you do it withoutbeing a video editor.
So that's an area where it's ahuge time save.
Now I just hired a video editorbecause I was looking at editing
a video went from taking 10hours to about two hours.
So from when I have an idea towhen the video is uploaded to

(38:57):
YouTube, it's two hours.
If I'm putting out a videoevery day, now it's 15 or 20
hours a week again.
So that's why I hired an editor.
That's why I switched to aperson, only because of a scale.
It hit a point of scaling whereI go.
I've just taken all the time.
I got back and filled it bymaking more quantity.
So that's why I hired an editor.
But it's the exact same mindsetof okay, what's the best way to

(39:17):
approach this process?
Can AI make this any faster?
The answer is no.
There's a limit to what AI cando AI can do adding the B roll,
adding the things in betweenscenes where it has, like, cool
words showing across the screen,all the cool stuff, all of that
using camera angles.
That's the stuff that starts totake too much time, and it hit

(39:37):
the point where AI can go so far.
And then the next level.
But what I now do, though I'lltake the video back from my
video editor, fire it intoDescript and I'll click their
button, write the YouTubedescription, copy and paste it
right in.
Click another button, write theblog post, throw that on my
article on LinkedIn.
I'll edit that sometimes.
Sometimes it's good enough.

(39:58):
It takes a light edit,sometimes it needs a big edit,
but it just does such a good jobbecause it has the whole video
pre-transcribed in there that Istill use those functions, and
it saves a huge amount of time.
Creating short clips fromvideos is a huge, huge
usefulness, especially forpodcasting, when I appear on
other people's podcasts.
I appear on people's podcastsall the time, and they don't
send me any clips.

(40:18):
So I say, great, just send methe video, I'll make the clips
myself and I'll use a tool.
You can do it in descript oryou can do it in video.

I use Opus Clips.

That's the one that I've been using yeah, a lot
of people.
I have found in my personalexperience that Opus has a lower
accuracy rate for the rightclip.
I know they've done a recentupdate that may be better, but I
tested it like three months ago.
But video, instead of doing AIB-roll, they just really
improved their accuracy.
So I had someone on podcast.
There were 13 clips.

(40:53):
I ended up using 12 out of the13 that video made and that's
what matters to me more than theflashiness.
I just want to get the clip asfast as possible.
And there's another thing thatAI tools do.
Now when I publish my podcast,it shows whoever's speaking, and
that used to be something youhad to manually edit.
Now it's one button byrecording tool and there's a
bunch of tools that will do.
There's like 10 tools that dothat.
So things that used to take ahuge amount of time, you could

(41:15):
do those way faster.
So those are areas where AIreally shines.
There's some really good toolsIf you stutter a lot or get
really nervous and have to dotons and tons of takes, which is
fine.
I've worked with people likethat.
Then there's a tool calledGling, which I pay for.
I use it with clients.
I don't do a lot of retakes.
I'll repeat half a sentencefour or five times in a video,

(41:40):
but I don't have to do six takesof each scene, like some people
do.
So for that you go to Gling andit will.
Just it's really the script cando it too, but I like the way
Gling does it and you can seethe script.
You can see what's cut out andwhat you add back in, so you
just take the best take of eachscene, end up with a really good
final video.
Then I process it, edit itsomewhere else.
So those are some of the toolsthat are on my radar.

(42:01):
But that's when you're movingoutside of author-specific stuff
, when you're into the marketingspace, because you have to
create videos for TikTok andcreate content for LinkedIn or
content for Instagram, whereveryou're marketing, and that's
really the better, bigger bangfor your buck for authors is the
marketing space anyways, yeahabsolutely Absolutely Okay.

So, with AI evolving so rapidly, which we've
kind of discussed a little bit,do you see any upcoming trends
or new tools that authorsspecifically should keep their
eyes on?
Or do you think that ChatGPTand cloud are just going to be
evolving so fast that that'sreally the place to stick it?

most of the tools that people talk about to
get a lot of news and press arevery unuseful.
They're high hype, low value,like AI video stuff, ai audio
stuff.
A lot of people I know areexcited to have an AI that
sounds like them narrate theirbook and it's like, well, it's a

(42:57):
cool idea.
It's against Amazon's terms ofservice.
They'll ban your account, theycatch you and they will catch
you because you'll misssomething in it, right?
So I tend to say stay away fromthings that are so unnecessary
and so not part of your business.
The things that I think will beuseful and it depends on who
you are.
If you need file organization,if you need email organization,

(43:19):
if you have trouble withdialogue, then look for tools
that solve that problem.
If you start from the mindsetof here's my problem, let me
look for solutions, you're goingto find there are so many
people doing AI development nowit can be a little overwhelming
because every single company nowsays they do AI.
Every single person is now anAI developer.
In the past year, everyLinkedIn profile has changed, so

(43:40):
that can be really overwhelming.
But just start with what is myproblem that I need solved, and
then you look for the tool thatsolves that problem.
When you approach it that way,you're going to be much more
efficient, you'll save a lot ofmoney and you're going to get
closer to the right answer foryou.
99% of the time, even with allof these pools, all Opus does is
take the transcript, send it toChatGPT and say ChatGPT, pick

(44:02):
the clips.
So they're still using ChatGPT,they're still using the OpenAI
API.
Even those tools that seem likevideo tools and I'm pretty sure
Descript is doing the samething they think they have a
higher level functionalitybecause they're a really big
company that people don'trealize how big they are because
they're buying up all theseother brands.
But that's all that they'rereally doing is saying to the ai

(44:23):
here's the transcript which ofthese clips do you think, which
of these snippets of text do youthink will go viral?
That's really what they'redoing.
So even tools that seem likethey're video editors are still
using chat gpt in the back endright.

so interesting too and, like you said, a lot of
people don't realize that thatis actually the base level of
everything that's being run, andit goes back to like utilizing
a tool then like the source tool.
Really, that's going to helpyou do the most and get the most
bang for your buck.
Okay, so you built a mailinglist of over 100,000 subscribers
.
You posted a podcast with morethan 250 episodes, so what

(44:58):
advice do you have to giveauthors when building their own
audiences and establishing astrong online presence, whether
it be just utilizing your ownknowledge, your basis, or
utilizing AI tools?
Do you have any tips on that?

Yeah, the most valuable resource you can have
is an email list.
There's nothing else that'sworth more money, because it's
the one time you get someone'sundivided attention.
If you're watching a video onYouTube or Facebook or reading a
post, there's always otherposts that are trying to get the
attention.
As soon as my video ends onYouTube, youtube will recommend
like 16 other videos and maybeone of those will be mine, but
the rest are all by someone else.

(45:32):
So you're never gettingsomeone's undivided attention,
except when it's an email.
People can't read two things atthe same time.
That's the one time you get allof their attention.
So the mistake a lot of authorsmake is they don't respect
people's email address.
So it will just say join mynewsletter, and the assumption

(45:52):
is that your newsletter is sovaluable that I'll jump at the
chance to have anothernewsletter coming in.
But no one as a consumer feelsthat way.
So every single person wouldpay a certain amount of money to
never receive another spamagain.
Whether it's $10 or $20, theypay for these softwares that
block those right.
So everyone has an idea of whattheir email address and their
privacy is worth.
So you have to give peoplesomething of equal or greater

(46:16):
value.
So if someone, when you visitmy website, and I want your
email address, I want to giveyou something that's worth more
to you than your email addresses.
That's when, then, you make thepurchase.
Same thing if you're spendingmoney, you're just doing a
barter, so people don't.
If you see it as a purchase,you're way more likely to
succeed.
So I think, okay, I have togive you something that's worth
what your email address is worth, and I have a sense of what an

(46:38):
email address is worth to me, soI want to give it a value equal
or greater.
That's how you get a lot ofemail addresses.
So, instead of here, join mynewsletter and you'll find out
cool stuff about me or find outwhat next launches.
You can say get my next book orget this short.
A lot of people in fiction willgive a prequel short story away
.
That never entices me, but thatmay entice other fiction
readers, but that's a reallycommon one, I see.

(47:00):
So you look, you want to havesomething from that approach.
That's like a really goodreason.
The second thing is that whensomeone finishes reading your
book, you can have two thingshappen.
Number one you can have themfeel one emotion if you try to
have them feel two emotions, youwill fail.
That that's a guarantee thatyour book will fail.
I want someone to feel happyand sad at the same time.

(47:21):
There's no happy-sad.
As soon as you try to do that,you create a problem.
The second thing is you canhave people take one action.
You can ask them to do onething Leave your review, join
your email list, listen to yourpodcast, follow you on YouTube
or read the next book in yourseries.
But there are some podcasts youever heard this where someone

(47:42):
says, oh, thank you so much forlistening.
Why don't you leave a review oniTunes, then leave a review on
YouTube, then leave a review onthis and this and that, and you
go.
Oh, people do nothing, yeah.

Because it's so confusing.
The confused mind does nothingyeah.

Yeah, when you give people too many choices,
it's better for them to have ayes-no decision than to have a
multivariate decision.
So just give them the one thingyou want to happen.
So when I work with aghostwriting client, this is
what I ask.
I say what's your real goal?
They say I want to speak.
Well, I go.
Where do you want to speak?
Do you want to speak atcorporate events?
That's very different thanspeaking at TED Talks.
It's very different thanspeaking at conferences, because

(48:14):
the way conferences bookspeakers is completely different
than corporate events.
Because at corporate events,one person makes the decision
and they always think, oh well,I want to speak.
The head of HR makes thedecision and I say that's not
true.
It's their assistant who says,oh, this is the speaker we think
we've got, and then they gookay, the assistant is the one
who actually reads the book andthen tells their boss.

(48:36):
This is the one you should do,because if you've ever worked
with anyone in corporate, youknow that's what happens, so
understand who the decisionmaker is.
Then we want to write a bookthat appeals to that assistant
and we'll get that pitch,because that's who you want it
to appeal to, whereas if youwant people to come to.
So whatever your goal is, thenthat becomes the seed you plant
through.
So let's say, you host a lot ofyour own live events what I'll

(48:58):
do.
Throughout the book I'll say oh, someone at one of my
conferences asked this and I wasspeaking at a conference and
someone else asked this question.
But if I want to sellone-on-one coaching, I'll say
one of my one-on-one coachingclients asked this amazing
question a few months ago.
So what I'm doing is lettingyou know over and over again.
This is the thing that I do.
Whatever that cell is, then,because you planned it before
you wrote the book, now you canput it and seed it throughout

(49:20):
the book.
So if it's, I want you on myemail address.
I'll mention all the reasons.
My email list is amazing.
Throughout the book.
That's where my someone emailedthis amazing question and I
just want to share it with youguys.
Here's an amazing testimony ofsomeone sent to me via email
recently.
That was so cool.
They know that you're reallygreat for that.
So, whatever the thing you wantthem to do, you can then plant
that seed throughout the bookand that's the only seed you

(49:41):
plant.
You don't do all of these youjust pick.

Yeah, that is so smart and it's so key too,
because, speaking of being atconferences, I've seen people
talk about your back matter, andwhen you have your back matter
doing too many of the things aswell, that confuses the reader,
right.
And then they do nothing andit's like just pick one.
No, just pick one thing andthat's it.
Yeah, so interesting.
But I love the concept ofsprinkling it throughout,

(50:04):
because when you can plan it,whether you're using ai or
whether you're doing it yourself, there is that kind of
subconscious level strategicness, because as we read, we go into
kind of that hypnotic stateanyway, so it kind of gets put
into the subconscious mind andnext thing you know they're
taking action.
That's super cool.

And a lot of people will just read the first
chapter, first couple ofchapters.
How many people haverecommended a book to you and
they've only read the first twochapters?
So what some people will do whoprefer to learn through courses
if you mentioned, I teach thiscontent for this book with
videos as well.
They'll jump to the back of thebook and then they'll go buy a
course.
So content from this book withvideos as well, they'll jump to

(50:44):
the back of the book and thenthey'll go buy your course.
So some people will jump up thetree to whatever's the better
thing for them.
They'll be reading a book andgo oh my gosh, this person does
live events.
What if there's one near me?
I'd rather just go hear thislive because I learn better live
.
So finding that earlier hasadditional value so you can
catch the people instead oflosing everyone who doesn't get
to the end of the book and turnone more page.
You don't want to lose them bywaiting too late.

Yeah, that's so smart and I think there's a lot
of people, if they don't valuethe content that they create,
they think they have to wait tothe end to share that
information because they don'twant to seem too salesy in the
beginning of their nonfictionbooks or whatnot.
But that's so important.
I think I completely agree withyou.
They need to know that upfrontbecause so many people drop.
I think isn't it something likechapter three by chapter three?

(51:21):
A lot of the people will dropoff by that point if they're not
a hundred percent involved orinterested.

Life happens.
So, in course, design like 99%of people watch the first video,
90% watch the second video andthen like 1% watch the third
video.
So people drop off.
And this is true of me as well.
When I buy someone else'scourse, I will watch part of it
or watch a couple of videos, andthen life gets in the way.
So you want to be strategic andsay well, what if someone only

(51:49):
reads the first chapter?
What can I do to make them saythis is a really good book?
Well, if they only read thefirst two chapters, it will
change how you write thebeginning of your book.
So you want to do that.
And then I also work a lot onhow can I plant seeds that will
make people read more of thisbook.
Right, what are the things Ican do?
And I use a really simplestrategy.
I ask every ghostwriting clientthe same question what's the

(52:10):
worst thing that's ever happenedto you that I can put in the
book?

That's an interesting take.

I take that story, I cut it in half.
The first half is in theintroduction, the last half is
in the conclusion.
This creates I want to know howthe story ends right, I want to
know what happens, and that'sit's the same method you see in
fiction, like a movie.
They'll show the end scene, theend battle scene.
Then they'll do a rewind andsays, three days earlier, that's

(52:37):
overdone.
But if you don't do it likethat, obviously that's basically
what's happening.
It creates this oh, I don'tknow how the story ends.
I'm going to read the rest ofthe book, so I'll read the
learning to get back to theentertainment part and it will
create that tension that willpull people through the book and
you'll have a much higherretention rate.
Yeah, that's great.

Oh, what a good idea.
I'm actually in the process ofbuilding and fleshing out my
next nonfiction book, and so allthe little tips and tricks on
getting that going is alwayshelpful for me specifically too.
So I'm like what a great idea.
Taking notes right now, notsurprising.

(53:20):
I love this.
It also mentions that while yourentrepreneur clients or while
people are growing, that you canuse websites like Fiverr and
Upwork to leverage any of theskills that you obtain through
AI or whatever.
So I'm just curious have youutilized those platforms
yourself to be able to get gigs,to be able to help you in times
when you hadn't been assuccessful to be able to?
And obviously AI is kind of newbut, like in this era, right
now, authors are trying to getto the point where there are

(53:43):
full-time authors and maybe theydon't have all the tools in
place yet.
But I know when I first started, I was a freelancer as well and
I was using.
I didn't use fiverr, but I diduse upwork.
So I'm curious have you seenany kinds of jobs out there for
utilizing AI tools or thingslike that that they can do then?

So I never, ever , ever get hired when there's a
competition.
So if someone is talking to 10ghostwriters, I never get picked
.
Okay I, that's not myenvironment, I don't do well
with that.
I just never.
Every single time someone sayswe're talking to other
ghostwriters, I'm like and don'twait, and I already now.

(54:23):
I'm like then, don't wait, andI already now.
I'm like don't waste my time,I'm not interested in that.
Okay, because that's not thegame I'm gonna play, because it
usually leads to well, theyoffer this price and or this and
that, and I'm.
I don't do any of those things.
So I've never done well as theand.
But I've hired people in thoseplatforms.
I've hired people on upwork.
I've hired people it was calledum elance.
I've hired people in what'scalled Elance.
I've hired people on Fiverr.
So I hire people a lot on thoseplatforms.
But for me, I know what I'm goodat and not good at.

(54:44):
I'm good at the singleconversation.
When someone talks to me, theywant to hire me.
So I lean into what I'm good at.
I know plenty of other peoplethat are good at the other
direction.
They're great at makingproposals and great at getting
picked, just not me.
So I have gotten most when Ineed revenue, I just will post
on Craigslist.
I do really well posting onthere, because nobody on

(55:05):
Craigslist is looking forinformation.
They're shopping and you willbe surprised how successful the
people are who spend time onCraigslist.
So I've had clients who aremillionaires and billionaires
who found me on Craigslist.
This is back when I was sellingcomputer services like SEO
stuff and that kind of stuff anda little web design and a
little social media marketingthose types of things way back
in 2010.

(55:25):
But it's the same thing now.
You'll still see that peoplewho go there are looking to hire
someone for a task they'realready in the mindset of I'm
going to hire someone now, Ijust want to see who's here.
There's a lot of challengeswith hiring on Fiverr and hiring
on Upwork.
These days, there's just a lotof bad vendors.
I don't hire on Upwork anymorebecause 90% of the people who

(55:46):
are delivering content are baitand switchers.
They'll bid a price, then yougo great, they go actually, I
want a different price and it'slike, well, you've wasted my
time.
So, that's what drives me thecraziest.
Just tell me the real price,don't that's like drives me the

(56:06):
craze is just tell me the realprice.
Like don't play a game.
So those to me, have lost a lotof their luster.
Like I don't like to deal withthat, so very rarely do I.
Like I just hired, I wentthrough like 20.
So many people have hundreds ofapplications to hire a video
editor and even then the firstperson who was a recommendation
from a good friend of mine, allthe bait and switch after the
first week and I was like well,you're fired, we made an
agreement.
It was the first message I sentyou was here's the price,
here's the thing.
And they go.
Well, actually I don't want towork for you full-time, I want

(56:28):
you just to be one of my otherclients.
And I said, oh, that's a.
And they switched salary toretainer like doing this because
it's.
If someone will do that in thefirst part of the relationship,
if they're going to pull a baitand switch like they're going to
lie because they she knew fromthe very first message that she
didn't want the job I'd offeredher.
She wanted something else.

(56:50):
Like add another client to herrolodex.
And I was like oh, that's cool,you've created an enemy for
life.
Yeah, right of time, likeyou're just my time, which is
something that bothers me themost.
So, absolutely, there's so muchwork out there now for authors
and blog posts, writing andghost writing.
There's just so much.

(57:10):
There's more work now than everbefore, because what happens is
a lot of people will use AI todo something, get a bad result
and then go.
I just need to hire a personlike lesson learned.
So I think it's actually abetter market for right now than
ever before.

Nice.
So do you have any ways ofgetting those types of gigs then
that authors could utilizeAnything that is of service to
them in this time of era of themarket space, I guess?

Here's how you get clients.
Tell everyone what you do.
Most ghostwriters who I meetwho fail.
They'll say I can't get anyclients.
I say well, how many peoplehave you told that you're a
ghostwriter?
Nobody.
Well, then the result makessense.
So change your LinkedIn profile, change your Facebook profile.
A lot of people feel like, oh, Ihave to get the clients first,

(57:55):
and then I can say that that'swhat I do.
You have to switch around.
You have to create aself-fulfilling prophecy.
You have to tell people this iswhat I do and think about what
type of client you want and whoyou want to attract, and then
say well, this is it.
You say who do I want to hireme?
Well, what type of person dothey want to hire?
Then become the person who fitsthat goal.
Become that matrix.

(58:17):
So I have a whole like forghostwriting.
I'm not good at blog postwriting.
I'm not good at short form.
I'm good at long form.
I'm much, much better atwriting a really long book than
I am writing blog posts of thesame number of words.
It's just what I'm good at.
So I lean into that and I wantto get paid a lot of money.
So I act.
I have a calibration of howlike haughty I act or how much

(58:38):
of a jerk I act like.
So I don't chase people.
I'll say things like like oh,are you a ghost, right?
Yeah, I'm not really lookingfor clients right now.
I really only take projectsthat get me really excited,
right people here right.
Oh my god, this guy must be sogood if he talks like that.
This guy, because they thinkwhen you're that con, you talk
like that.
So you just calibrate that tothe right thing for your

(59:00):
business, because you wantpeople to ask you rather than
for you to prove yourself thatyou're a good writer.
People will say things like howdo you know I'll be a
bestseller?
I haven't written anon-bestseller in 12 years.
I don't think your book isgoing to be the one where
suddenly I stop writingbestsellers.

Right right.

And around like that.
So I talk like that and it's acalibration, I'm just, it's
cranking up your confidence upto 11 or whatever's right for
your personality.
So you want to switch so thatyou're doing positioning instead
of prospecting, instead ofchasing clients.
So instead of saying, hey, areyou looking for a ghostwriter,
are you looking for aghostwriter?
And you'll.
Most people don't know fiveghostwriters, most people only

(59:40):
know one.

Yeah.

So you do the one everyone knows and that's
really all there is to it.
Once you plant the seed and youtell everyone what you do,
you'll start getting inquiriesall the time because it's not a
very common profession, it'sjust not Most people know one.
Someone will say to your friendof a friend hey, do you know
any ghostwriters?
Oh, I know one person.
I know, jonathan.
Can you introduce me, because Idon't know any other ghost
writers and you're off to theraces.

(01:00:02):
So, whatever the thing is thatyou want to do, whether it's I
know some people who just writebook outlines or they only do
paranormal romance, characterdevelopment, whatever the thing
is that you do, it doesn'tmatter.
Just tell everyone and then actlike you're good at it.

Carissa Andrews (01:00:18):
Yeah, I think that's so key.
I teach manifestation toauthors as well and so to me
that makes total sense, becauseyou're putting out and
projecting and, like you said,recalibrating.
So like even when I think aboutit, like from the quantum
physics perspective, it's likeyou're calibrating yourself into
that reality.
You're pulling the possibilityof that being in and you're
acting the part which totallymakes sense I of that being in

(01:00:38):
and you're acting the part whichtotally makes sense.
I love that.
That's super cool, okay, sowhat do you think is the biggest
misconception about?

Jonathan Green (01:00:46):
AI that you'd like to address.
The biggest misconception isthat it can replace you.
A lot of people say things likeI want to replace myself with
AI.
Whenever someone says that, Iknow that they're going to fail,
just like an absolute giveaway.
What AI can do is move you intomanagement.
So now, instead of writing youremails, chad, you'd be right to
email us, but you have to readthem and do quality control.

(01:01:08):
Every single time someone has adebacle with AI and makes it in
the news, it's because they didnot check the work.
They let something go out thedoor without reading it, and
that's really the difference,that difference of mindset.
That's the biggest mistake thatpeople make is letting it do
something unfettered andpublishing something that they
did not read, whether it's tosocial media or, even worse, to

(01:01:29):
a book.
Don't do that.

Yeah, yeah, cause it does kind of do some
weird things once in a while.
It's sometimes it's great, likeyou mentioned in an earlier
discussion.
It's like sometimes it createscontent that's perfect, and
other times you're like what inthe heck just happened?
There's a, there's a good likegist here, but I need to add
some more stuff in.
Yeah, ok, finally, what's theone piece of advice that you'd
give to authors who are hesitantabout incorporating AI into

(01:01:53):
their writing business?

Oh Don't, you don't have to do it.
You only do it if there is anarea where you're stuck, if
something is taking a lot oftime or you're frozen on a
process.
You don't need ai to write yourbook.
You don't need ai to edit yourbook, just use it to help you
with different areas.
But if you, for example, havewriter's block, then you can

(01:02:16):
just say to chat gbt, I'mworking on a book and I have
writer's block, can you help meget through it?
And it will work you through itin an amazing way.
I'll do an exercise or a drillwith you.
There's tons of ways to do that.
So that's really the approach Ihave.
It's not a necessary tool, it'sjust a way to enhance and you
just can use it for differentparts.
Like, okay, let me just workthrough, let me just do a
brainstorm with the AI.
I don't need it to do anythingelse.

(01:02:38):
So you just use it wherever youare stuck or you're spending a
lot of time on something.
Sometimes I've worked withclients who will spend like a
year just rewriting the samechapter over and over again.
And it's like well, of course,it's obvious what the problem is
.
You won't stop working onchapter three, no matter how
many times I tell you and it'smost of the time when people do

(01:03:00):
something they'll violate one ofmy rules.
One of my rules is do not havea friend or family member design
the cover of your book.
And I remember someone evensaid I know I broke Jonathan's
rule, but I had my daughter dothe cover.
I'm starting to fall in lovewith it.
And I was like, yeah, it's toobad, it's trash.
And now you can't get rid of it, you can't change the cover

(01:03:22):
because you have this secondproblem oh, my daughter's
feelings will be hurt.
So it's like now you'veprioritized this person's
feelings over success.
So that's like mixing personaland business.
So that's the kind of thingthat can sabotage you.
So I definitely encourage youto use AI strategically.
You don't have to use it, butuse it wherever you're stuck,
where something's taking toolong or something's wonky.

(01:03:44):
Sometimes you can look atsomething and go.
I don't know what's wrong withthis.
So you can, for example, uploada cover of your book to chat
GBT and go what genre is thisbook?

And if it guesses, the wrong genre, then
you know you have a problem,right.
Right, that's a great way touse it.
I do sort of kind of similarthings where it's like what kind
of?
If I'll take my bookdescription like what genre of a
um, what genre do you thinkthis book is going to be in
based off of this description,and let it kind of take a look
and then let me know, and ifit's not the right one, go and
you rework it then to be fittingin X genre Like whatever, so

(01:04:19):
that it can help you tocalibrate it to the right
messaging.
Yeah, it's good.

Great, I love it .
That's a good idea.

Yeah, okay, jonathan, where can my audience
go to find out more about you,to learn about all that you do,
to check out your many, many,many, many books?
Where do they go?

On any platform.
You can just type serve nomaster.
Every Google search result isme.
Every book result is me.
It's either my podcast or mybooks or a review of me.
You'll find me everywhere.
Serve no master.

I love that.
That's awesome, jonathan.
Thank you so much for beinghere today and sharing all of
your wisdom.
Thank you for having me.
Wow, what a conversation.
I don't know about you, but I'mfeeling so inspired after
hearing Jonathan Green'sinsights.
He really broke down thepractical ways we can use AI to
grow our author business andmake a serious impact, and I

(01:05:14):
know the information he gave onnonfiction in specific has
really really settled in with meright.
There's a lot that I'm workingon behind the scenes and it was
like so many golden nuggetsthere.
So if you want to dive deeperinto what Jonathan's doing or
check out any of the tools wetalked about today, don't worry.
I've got all the links andtools and resources we mentioned

(01:05:34):
in this episode, as well as thetranscript over at
authorrevolutionorg forwardslash 258.
So you can find everythingreally easy right there.
But before I go, I've got someexciting news to share.
I've been working on somethingreally special and you guys
probably know about it.
I've mentioned it a few timeson the podcast, but it's my

(01:05:55):
upcoming nonfiction book Writeyour Reality Now.
This book is all about how youcan use the power of your words
and intention and the quantumfield to shape your life the way
you want to live it.
I'll be launching theKickstarter for it very soon.
Fingers crossed it'll be goinglive by November 4th.
It's going to be running untilNovember 30th and I'm super
excited for you to be a part ofit.

(01:06:16):
If you're curious, you canalways keep an eye on the
campaign page atauthorrevolutionorg forward
slash Kickstarter.
You'll be able to check out allthe details there.
Once it goes live.
I'll be posting like the comingsoon page very soon, but for
right now it's just the redirect.
Okay, so, guys, thank you somuch for tuning in.
Jonathan shared some incrediblestrategies and I hope you're

(01:06:36):
walking away with actionableideas to incorporate AI into
your writing business.
Don't forget if you want moredetails on Jonathan, his courses
or the AI tools he mentioned,head over to AuthorRevolutionorg
forward slash 258.
And until next time, go forthand start your author revolution
.

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Jonathan Green on Harnessing AI for Author Success

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