The Secret Phases Every Author Goes Through (But No One Talks About)

Episode Transcript
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Carissa Andrews (00:05):
Welcome to the Author Revolution Podcast.
I'm Carissa Andrews, author andyour host here to help indie
authors like you master mindset,harness manifestation and
embrace cutting-edge innovationto elevate your career.
Let's dive in.

(00:26):
Hey there, author Revolution fam.
Welcome back to another episodeof the Author Revolution
podcast, where we dive into allthe things writing, mindset and
manifestation to help you builda thriving author career.
Have you ever wondered whywriting sometimes feels
effortless and other times likeyou're trudging through
quicksand, why some days thewords flow like magic and other

(00:47):
days even opening yourmanuscript feels impossible?
You're not alone.
Every author goes throughsecret phases of success that no
one talks about.
But today we're pulling backthe curtain.
In this episode, I'm bringingback Emma Desi, who has spent
years studying the creativejourney, and she's here to
reveal why you feel stuck, whycreative resistance happens and,

(01:08):
most importantly, how to movethrough it with confidence.
And here's something extra Emmais teaching an exclusive Author
Revolution Masterclass in March2025, all about this topic.
So if you're ready to understandthe hidden cycles of your
writing journey and finally gainmomentum, you won't want to
miss it.
Stick around until the end forall of the details.

(01:28):
Plus, we're diving intowriter's block, executive
dysfunction and why embracingyour inner weirdness might just
be the key to your success.
So grab your coffee or tea, getcomfy and let's get into it.
Hi, emma, I'm so excited tohave you back on the show.
It's been a little while.
We've talked about a lot ofthings over the years, but today

(01:50):
I'm bringing you back becauseyou've developed a framework
called the Four Pillars toAuthor Success, and I love
number one.
That it's the Four Pillars toAuthor Success Sounds super cool
, but can you walk us throughwhat they are and why they
matter to writers?

Emma Dhesi (02:04):
Yay, thanks for inviting me back, carissa.
It's lovely to get theopportunity to chat to you again
.
I always love it.
Yeah, so the four pillars Ijust sort of noticed that I went
through phases with my writing,particularly the actual
storytelling bit of it, theactual physical writing.
And you know, there'd be timeswhen it was all great and

(02:25):
everything felt it was wonderful, and then times when it was
awful.
And I noticed this too, sort ofin my community but also in the
wider world, you know, just onFacebook or social media, seeing
the sorts of questions andthings that people are asking
about their writing.
And I realised that we all,we're all doing this, we're all
kind of going through thesedifferent um phases and what

(02:47):
I've called the pillars and, yes, to do with our writing, but
also to do with um, all of thephases of being an entrepreneur,
of being, of being a writer.
So the the first pillar isawareness, just kind of being
aware of where you are in thiswriting landscape.
You know if you're straightthrough the gate.
You know you're just throughthe gate.

(03:08):
You've just started, you'vemaybe written your first short
story or something, or youattended your first workshop and
everything's so exciting, it'sall new and fabulous, all the
way up to somebody like yourself, carissa, who's multi-published
six figures know, live in thedream and everything in between.
We all just have to be aware ofwhere we are in that writing

(03:29):
landscape.
Then the second pillar is theacceptance of that because, as
we know, it's one thing to kindof be observant and understand
something, but it's sometimes adifferent matter to kind of be
okay with that and accept thatthis is where you're at at the
moment.
This is the phase of writing orof life where you're at at the
moment.
This is the phase of writing orof life that you're in at the
moment, and when it's the nicephase, we're more than happy to

(03:51):
accept it.
But when it's not so nice,we're a little less willing to
accept where we're at and wequite often fight against that.
Then the third pillar is thegrowth pillar, and I would say
actually this is the hardest andthe longest pillar for the
majority of us, especially atthe beginning phase when you are

(04:12):
really looking to sort of honeyour craft, find your voice,
establish yourself in yourwriting life.
But equally, that's where a lotof the good stuff happens too.
So the growth phase, equallythat's where a lot of the good
stuff happens too.
So the growth phase, the growthpillar, is definitely a big one
.
And then the fourth one is fun,and I really wanted to include
this almost as a reminder tomyself but to everybody that

(04:36):
what we do is challenging, it'smentally challenging, it's
emotionally challenging, it'sphysically challenging, and so
we need to reward ourselves andjust recognize the little
milestones that we hit and havefun with that.
So that might be either in termsof rewarding ourselves after
we've hit a milestone, but alsojust generally to remind

(04:58):
ourselves why we got into thisin the first place, and for the
majority of us it was because itwas an escape from all the
other stuff.
It was our relaxation and thefun thing that drew us into it.
And so those are the fourpillars, and we move around
those pillars all the time.
It's not you do one, then two,then three, then four, but you

(05:18):
jump from one to the other, tothe other, the other, all the
time, because it depends whatyou're working on, which phase
you're in, and you might gothrough all of these phases, all
of these pillars when on oneproject, but equally you'll go
through them multiple times overthe course of your writing life
.
So there, it's not a staticthing, is what I'm saying.

I completely understand that.
It kind of just reminds me, too, a little bit of what we were
talking about before we hoppedon the podcast about, like the
3D and 5D, how we're hopping inand out of all those phases all
the time too.
It's like we're constantlytrying to grow and expand
ourselves and, like you said,accept where we're at.
When we don't like where we'reat, we're still envisioning a

(05:59):
better future.
I know those of us who are highachievers or who have that
perfectionist streak.
It's like, no, I see where Ihave to go, but it's not there
yet.
Why is it not there yet?
And we forget about the fun.
So I completely love thatpillar.
To me, I'm like that's.

Emma Dhesi (06:15):
That's one of them that I've reminded myself over
the years this is supposed to befun, because I don't know if
you've noticed this with yoursort of newer writers, but
certainly I felt it myself and Isee in my community that as
soon as we make that decision tookay, I'm going to publish this
book, we become so earnestabout everything and we become
so serious about everything thatit sort of sucks the joy out of

(06:38):
the whole process, and so Iwant to help us to get back and
remember that that it is fun ifyou let it be.

And that comes through and happens as we lose
our authenticity, because now,all of a sudden, it's like it's
serious and we have to do thisseriously and we have to put our
mask on because, oh my gosh,what if we showed up as
ourselves and people didn't likeus?
So we have to kind of like Idon't know, wash ourselves down
or something.
It's so weird.
Why do we do that?

Emma Dhesi (07:07):
It is down or something.
It's so weird.
Why do we do that?
It is, it is, and I think we'vejust been having this whole
experience recently last weekendwith exactly that, actually,
and just the feeling of beingweird and not fitting in
anywhere.
And I think that all of uswriters feel that to a greater
or lesser degree, but me kind ofbeing aware that I have a
weirdness and, uh, have an innerweirdness, perhaps not so much

(07:28):
an outer one, but being awarethat I've got that, but I don't
know that I've yet accepted that.

I feel you.
For me it's been the same thingthis past year.
All of a sudden I had like abig slap realization across my
face where I was like holy crap,I'm autistic and probably have
ADHD.
Oh my God, where did that comefrom?
Like what just happened.

Emma Dhesi (07:48):
Was that the whole shift in identity?

Yeah, but it was so freeing because all of a
sudden I'm like, oh my God,that's why I do these things.
That's so crazy.

Emma Dhesi (08:01):
So wound up in that then is the awareness that
you've got these different waysof seeing the world and then
sort of accepting that this is apart of yourself and explains
so much, and so I'm sure thatthere's a lot of growth then.
That's coming with that as youlearn how to be okay with that
side of yourself.

And it was like it was like an instant
realization.
And then I was okay, becausebefore it was almost like why do
people not understand me?
Or why are people so afraid oflearning these things in depth,
like what is going on here?
It was like my brain couldn'tcomprehend it.
And the more that you realizethat people like like there's
literally a group of people whoare scared of smart people, like

(08:39):
if they perceive you as smarterthan them, it's almost like it
instantly triggers a fearresponse and so it revolts them.
And then there are the peoplethat, like they can't follow and
they're kind of like you don'tknow what you're talking about
because they can't follow.
And so it's just like once Iunderstood a bunch of these
things, all of a sudden I'm likenope, now I know who I'm
calling in, it's all good, it'sso weird.

(09:00):
It's like, all of a sudden I'mlike why is why aren't authors
realizing what this is like?
What's going on here?
Oh, I get it.
Okay, it was like an instant.
Oh, okay.
Now.

Emma Dhesi (09:11):
I'm cool.
Now I'm cool.
It kind of felt instantly good.

It's almost like a calm, a weight's been
lifted yes, absolutely thatacceptance of what is and then,
and then just going okay, well,now I know my people, it's all
good yeah, yeah, yeah, and cangrow in that direction.

Emma Dhesi (09:26):
Now you can grow in that direction, yeah, and enjoy
being with those people becausethey get you absolutely.

Yeah, that's where the neurodivergent
manifester brand came from and Istarted spinning into that
where it was like, okay, now Iknow my people and now I know
kind of what I want to be or whoI want to be teaching so that
they understand, because it'sway more fun talking to people
that get you obviously right.
You talk to people and they'relike like staring at you, you're
like I don't know if this isthe right group for me and that

(09:55):
I think that's like um in thesame, for in terms of our
writing and that idea of findingour voice.

Emma Dhesi (10:02):
You know, we read so much about what you should and
shouldn't do in your creativelife and um, the rules that
there are if you want to createsome, a piece of fiction, and
and we can we can take those somuch on board that we do start
to lose our inner, weird orinner voice, and because we're
trying desperately to fit in,but in that we lose what makes
us unique and we lose what it isthat people actually would love

(10:25):
about us if we let it out yeah,it's so wild and it's like you
almost have to go through thatphase of like learning all the
things so that you can then goback to breaking the rules and
being yourself that you were inthe beginning it was like this
weird full circle to do thewhole thing.

Oh gosh, was there ever a specific moment or
struggle that made you thenrealize that these four elements
were the key to author success?
Like was there?
Was there a pivotal moment foryou that made you come, just
stop and go?
What?

Emma Dhesi (10:55):
um, I think actually it was around a similar time
that, um, I understood a littlebit more about writer's block or
creative blocks, and how theyare more than just um, oh, I'm
feeling a bit tired today or I'mnot feeling in the mood to
write today or to create today,but actually that there's
something really going on insidethat stops you from even

(11:18):
getting to the page from thefear is too much that you can't
overcome it.
And I was having a sort ofround table discussion with some
people in my community andtrying to understand what it was
that was holding them back fromwriting this book that you know
, many of them had been tryingto write for decades and some
people had even taken asabbatical from work because
they had all the support thereto do it, they had the means to

(11:40):
do it, but they still didn'twrite the book.
And I thought, well, that'smore than just not doing the
right class or not, that's areal writer's block, something
going on there.
And so it started me justlooking more deeply into this
and just sort of observing whatwas going on around me and I'm a
very slow writer, it takes me along time to kind of feel happy

(12:02):
with something and I noticedmyself going through all of
these phases and then I'd maybefinish like a third or fourth
draft of a manuscript and befeeling really good and feeling
that fun section, and then allof a sudden it'd be like no, but
I've just read this book overhere and I realize mine isn't
good enough, I'm not going tofit into that genre well enough,
and so the cycle kind of startsagain.

(12:22):
So it wasn't any one specificmoment other than that round
table, but I'd say lots oflittle moments that just made me
notice my own behavior aroundbeing creative and my writing
and and then watching thecomments come in on my social
media and realizing, ah, okay,so some people you know they

(12:44):
they'll maybe comment or emailme and you can see, oh, they've
got like five years experienceand they've published two books
and you can hear it in the waythat they write, uh, the way
that they write the email or thepost, there's a sort of um,
there's a knowledge there,there's a knowing there.
They've understood that they'vebeen through this process
several times and whilst they'restill feeling the feels, but

(13:04):
they know they'll get through it.
And then you've got otherpeople who have kind of just
started and or have a lot ofblocks going on, and so, even
though they've been writing fordecades, they've not managed to
make the shift, and the way thatthey write and communicate is
much more of this kind of, I'dsay, a feeling of desperation,
of wanting this so badly thatit's actually stopping them

(13:27):
getting it.
And so, because I've now beendoing this a little while myself
and just kind of understandingthat when I look back on my own
writing life, I can see how farI've come and it feels really,
really good and now I can.
It's almost like you take yourhead up from the page and you
look around and you go oh, okay,you know, this is this whole

(13:47):
great big landscape and I'm oneperson that's a third of the way
through this path, um, in thislandscape and it doesn't mean
that I've failed, I've still gota long, long way to go.
It's the creative world.
You never learn it all, but atthe same time, wow, look how far
I've come, and that does feelgood and it's such a cliche.

(14:07):
But it's this, that sort ofunderstanding that life's a
journey.
It's not the destination, butit is that kind of understanding
, or I understanding that, yeah,okay, I'm on the journey and
actually that's quite fun andwhat a lucky place I am to be.

Yeah, and it's all about that perception too,
isn't it?
Like?
Because, like, I'll even usemyself as an example with Author
Revolution podcast.
You know I was.
I've been doing it for fiveplus years now and there was a
certain point at the end of lastyear where I just felt like, am
I even making a difference?
Like, is there even a point tothis anymore?
Like, should I just be done,done?
And so when I was switchingover to the Manifest Differently

(14:45):
podcast, I was like I don'teven know if I'm going to do
Author Revolution podcastanymore.
I don't even know if I feelcalled Like I don't like.
I've said it all at this pointis how it felt.
And it wasn't until taking thatstep back, taking that break and
just kind of relaxing myperception or my continual loop
of whatever I thought about thepodcast, that all of a sudden

(15:06):
I'm like looking around, I'mlifting my head up from the page
and realizing there are otherpodcasts out there that I've
always really looked up to andI'm realizing in certain like
charts or whatever that I'mactually higher up on the
podcast.
Like, even without likepodcasting, frequently I'm
higher up and I was like hang ona second, what?
Wait a second, when did thathappen?

(15:27):
What?
Or like little things, where I,all of a sudden, I'm like I
have something to say to thisaudience and I didn't think I
had anything more to say.
Do I do I still say it then, ordo I just do I continue?
But it is.
It's this whole big phase oflike having to almost take that
step back for a sec and realizewhat you have done.

(15:47):
I think when you were talkingabout blocks for me, I've always
struggled with that concept,whether it's, you know, money
blocks or manifestation blocksor whether it's writing blocks.
Because, like as a kid when Igrew up, my mom was, she's an
artist and so she paints, andshe taught us like there's
always a creative solution toeverything.
You're never blocked withsomething right, so you can, you

(16:09):
can you make a spill, you drawsomething wrong, you do like it
was almost like that Jamie LeeCurtis book that they did.
I can't remember what the bookwas called.
It's like a baby, a kid's book,but it was so good and like
anytime you beautiful, oops, Ithink is maybe what the book was
called.
And so you make a mistake, butyou can always do something
creative with it, right?
And so I onboarded that as akid for everything.

(16:31):
So blocks don't really meananything to me, except as I was
studying, you know, I'm stilllearning about neurodivergence,
I'm still learning about ADHD,autism, whatever, and I'm
learning more about executivedysfunction.
And so there are certain timeswhere I catch myself where it's
like it's not a block, but it'slike I literally cannot get

(16:52):
myself to execute on this thingright now, and it's usually
because I'm burnt out, I'moverwhelmed in other areas of my
life, and so I just can't.
I can't get the like email.
Sometimes it's like I just Ican't even bother with emails.
It's just and that's how I knowI've reached burnout.
And the more I'm learning aboutexecutive dysfunction, I'm like
I wonder if that's actuallywhat all these blocks are.
It's like, literally, you'vegot something else that needs to

(17:13):
be resolved before you can getback into your executing mode.

Emma Dhesi (17:17):
So just tell me what the executive dysfunction is.

It's literally where, like you're almost from
what I understand it so far,it's where you've got so many
things that are bombarding yourattention that there are certain
things that you just cannotexecute on.
So you want to, you want to beable to respond to emails, you
want to be able to write thatbook, but because your brain is
being pulled elsewhere, it'salmost like when you've had a

(17:43):
fight, right, let's say you'vehad a fight with your spouse and
it's terrible, and you stillhave to, like, write your
chapter.
It's like how are you going towrite that chapter when you're
emotionally tied back to thatargument that was going on?
You can't.
There's no executive.
You can't execute on thatchapter, at least not to the
best of your ability.
If you were calm, right.
But it can be a myriad of wayswhere you just literally are

(18:04):
blocking yourself becausesomething else needs your
attention, but you're notallowing yourself to go there.

Emma Dhesi (18:08):
Yeah, so it's almost .
There's too much pulling on youand so much you don't know
where to start, don't know how,to which should take priority,
and so just not do any of themExactly, and I'm sure there are
different layers to executivedysfunction too.

I'm still like I said, I'm still learning it
all.
I'm still learning the languageof it all and understanding,
like, how it actually affects me.
But it's kind of I like thelanguage of it better than block
two, because now it doesn'tfeel like you can't get around
it.
It's it's just oh, okay, nowit's a an awareness point for me
where I go.
Okay, I am feeling thisexecutive dysfunction.
I need to figure out what'sactually trying to get my

(18:42):
attention right now.
It doesn't mean I need to takea step back, take a break, do a
little less like what, what'sgoing on, and it just kind of
helps me be more present yeah,but yeah, yeah, it's really
fascinating.

Emma Dhesi (18:53):
Yeah, yeah, my son has adhd and um, and one of the
reasons I first started thinkingthat he might there might be
something going on is becauseI'm sure you remember kids
there's a certain age at whichthey can learn to take on.
You can give them threeinstructions at the same time
and they can execute all three,and even at an advanced stage he
couldn't do it, and I rememberthinking, ah, okay, so we just,

(19:16):
we still just had and this wasmaybe at the age of seven or
eight we still have to do one ata time, because otherwise it
didn't know which to prioritize,and so we just be like a rabbit
in the headlights.

Freeze yeah, it's that, it's that whole
nervous system functional.
Freeze.
You just get into that like Ican't.
I cannot function, there is no.
There is no execution happeninghere.
It's not going to go.
It's not going to go forward.
But it brings you back toawareness.

Emma Dhesi (19:42):
It does it's just that awareness solves so many
issues and I think for thepeople who who then did develop
this course for people with withblocks, and I think just given
it's not specifically aboutwriting, but just when they have
that awareness of what else isgoing outside, going on outside
of their creative life, thatthat is having an impact on them

(20:04):
, then there's something theycan do about it.
And of course, there's always abit of resistance.
I'm not going to accept that.
I can't believe what'shappening over here with my
sister has got anything to dowith what's happening with my
writing.

But actually I used to think that too, I'd get
sick and I'd be like, no, it'snot going to impact my writing
at all.
And then I'd read everythingback from like the two or three
days that I was really sick andeveryone was super crabby in my
books.
I'm like I don't think I shouldbe writing when I'm not feeling
well, because now I have toredo it all anyway and I was
like, no, it's not happeningokay, but yeah, and then we get.

Emma Dhesi (20:39):
If we accept that, then we can grow, we can make
the changes, we can do theexecutive side of it, do our
checklists or whatever it isthat we need to, uh, to help us
keep moving forwards and keepkeep functioning, and then when
we we achieve that little thing,we can go.

Yes, now I'm going to reward myself for
hitting that milestone no doubtthat's definitely one that I
need to do better on the whole,like rewarding and and being
aware when I get anaccomplishment taken care of I
don't know if that's the I thinkit's the ADHD side where it's
like it, you finish it, thedopamine is gone and it's like
you kind of like forget that iteven exists and move on to the
next thing, and I think you'reshowing exactly how important

(21:18):
that is, because you're a verybusy person.

Emma Dhesi (21:19):
You've got a full family life, you've got a very
full working life, and I thinkyou're I don't know if you're
still renovating your home, butthat's another big thing going
on.
Personally I'm not, but Colindefinitely is so kind of being
able to hit one of yourmilestones and just take a
moment and it's not even a bigthing, it might just be an extra
chocolate bar, or even justphysically giving yourself a pat

(21:41):
on the shoulder to say good jobthat will give us a little bit
of a dopamine.
Hit um and make us feel goodand make us want to carry on and
do the next thing as well.
For sure, yeah you need to bedoing this, yes yes, oh, and
that's.

It's definitely something I've been working on,
probably probably since like2019.
I've been trying to like getbetter.
Every every year gets just alittle bit better, getting
getting to that point of slowingdown just enough to be able to
be like that was pretty cool.
That was pretty cool like Ijust got.
I mean, I went over the the100k mark from uh Kajabi, so

(22:16):
like I've earned a hundredthousand plus on Kajabi for
author evolution, so I got alittle pin oh nice
congratulations.
And they sent me a microphone,like I just got that yesterday.
Wow, I'm like.
Okay, I can take a moment andcelebrate that.

Emma Dhesi (22:29):
That's pretty awesome, that is awesome.

Yeah, yeah, but it's awesome uh, nor I don't
know how to celebrate that.
It's like I, I get it and I'mlike, woohoo, I set it aside and
then I go back and do my work.
I was like put the pin on right, I'll just wear my pin
everywhere when people ask.

Emma Dhesi (22:47):
I'll be like because it's awesome but I bet you,
though, when you opened that boxor that envelope or whatever
and you acknowledged it well,they'd forced you to acknowledge
it it did feel good.
There was maybe part that kindof just contributes to that
feeling of, yeah, I am doing agood job with my podcast.

I'm going to carry on doing this because I'm
giving something out and clearlypeople are enjoying it right
right, it's so good and I thinkit's so important that we do
stop for a second, because if wedon't, it's almost like we put
ourselves into a loop wherewe're not, um, we're not
acknowledging how we're growing,so that pillar of growth, we're
not acknowledging that thegrowth, and so we kind of then

(23:27):
stay stuck in that level of likenothing's working.
Why is nothing working?
And when you're in that mindset, nothing feels like it's
working, even though there is agrowth.
We just can't see it.

Emma Dhesi (23:37):
It's so weird and trippy, yeah yeah, you're just
too entrenched and we need thatthird eye, which is one of the
great things about about kajabisending you that, but about
community and about working withmaybe just one critique partner
or a little critique group, ifyou like that, but that people
are able to feed back to you andsay, oh well, done you?
You did this.
Do you remember you werestruggling with that and you've

(23:58):
nailed it, you've got that scenewritten.
Or do you remember you were sonervous about doing that podcast
interview but you did it and itwas really good?
All of these little things, weneed those external.
It's not a validation thing,but it is a reminder to validate
ourselves.

Yeah, yeah, one of the things.
I think it was Quinn Ward whotold me about object
impermanence.
So those of us who do have ADHD, when we finish something, it's
like it never existed.
So like you know, even all thebooks, right?
If you write all the books, youmove on and you're only focused
on the one that you're writingright now.
None of the others technicallyexist anymore in your head
because of object impermanence.

(24:34):
And so, unless we go back andrefresh our memory, it's almost
like we're constantly in thatstriving mode because we don't,
we don't stop and go.
Oh my, my god, look at allthose books that are back there
hang on a second.

Emma Dhesi (24:46):
What?

just happened like we.
We don't.
It's like it does.

Emma Dhesi (24:49):
It literally doesn't even come up in our brains so I
wonder if you're making methink about all of these, um,
these authors who have written,you know, 200, 300 books, um,
and because that takes a levelof focus, yeah, not, the
majority of people don't have.
And so now I'm just I've gotone woman in particular in my

(25:15):
head and I'm now going oh, Iwonder if she's got that very
likely, very likely.

I have a couple of students that are like that,
where they've written so manybooks and they're like why can't
I break through this particularthing?
And it's not even so much thatthey don't.
Obviously they know how towrite.
They've been doing it for along time, They've been selling
books.
They're doing that whole likeI'm staying at the same income
level, but I'm writing all thetime Like why is that the the
case?
And it's because they forgetabout everything that they've

(25:44):
built as well.
They're not celebrating it,they're not sharing it, they're
not talking about it and so andmaybe they're not even putting
it in their backlist or anything.
So people don't even like theyliterally read the new book and
they have no idea that there arehundreds to go choose from.
And so we stopped taking thatinspired action that helps us to
grow, because we're notfocusing on that element of it

(26:05):
whatsoever.
It's super fascinating.

Emma Dhesi (26:09):
Yeah.

We have to especially if you know you have
ADHD or you think maybe you do.
I think it's really importantthat we have those moments where
we just take us, take a moment,you know, even if it's like
once a month, once a quarter, tostop and and like relook at
everything that we'veaccomplished this year, or
throughout our author career,throughout our lives, whatever,
because it's so, it's sobeneficial to boost our morale,

(26:32):
to see where we're going torealize that no, I am in
mid-manifestation, mid-journey,whatever, um, and it's, it's all
working out for me.
Why am I worried?

Emma Dhesi (26:41):
yeah, yeah, and when you take away that stress and
that kind of uh, unnecessarylevel of, then, you can enjoy it
so much more.
And I do think that that thensort of ripples out into the
work itself and there's a joy onthe page.
And you know how sometimes youread a book and you're like, oh,
the author really enjoyedwriting this and you can tell,

(27:03):
yeah, the way that it comes outand I think if we have that in
us, if we're enjoying what we'redoing and even enjoying the
challenge of it because it's achallenge we can figure out then
I think that does um sort ofspill onto the page and we can,
and we then feel good about thatproject and that book that
we've just written, which thenhelps facilitate that dopamine
hit, that feeling good and thatwant to get back in and get

(27:26):
stuck into the next project.

Yeah, and I think that's so crucial because
if you're going to be sittingthere in that why is nothing
working phase, it gets to thatpoint where not only does
burnout settle in, but you getdiscouraged, and then you don't
even want to do the writing.
You know, yes, yes yes, that'snot fun.
I mean we got into this becauseit, it, it.
I mean most of us I can onlyspeak for myself, I guess, but

(27:49):
it's like it feels, fulfillssomething in your soul where
it's like you have something youneed to get out and it's one of
the only ways you know how youknow.

Emma Dhesi (27:59):
Yeah, no, it does.
I think for some of us it isthe well if I think about of us,
it is the well if I think aboutmyself.
It is the written word or thespoken word, that's the thing
that is my, that keeps my brainbalanced.
But I know for others it'sdoing things with their hands,
so whether it's drawing orsculpting or ceramics or
knitting, whatever it might be,just in the same way that for

(28:21):
other people it's going to begoing for a jog and it's that
physical movement, that that isthe bit that helps balance their
brain and and gives them thatoutlet that just means that the
rest of life can carry on well,um, I've tried doing stuff you
know the crafting and thingswith my hands, but it just
doesn't give me that samefeeling of um, that same feeling

(28:42):
of joy at all.
And but yeah, I know that thereare people who do it all.
They do a little bit of it alland each different activity
gives them a different type ofpleasure and a different kind of
gratification in their brain.

I'm just thinking kind of like we were
talking about Gabby Bernstein'sbook Self-Help, and those of you
who are listening, if youhaven't checked out that book,
definitely go check out thatbook.
It's amazing.
And those of you who arelistening, if you haven't
checked out that book,definitely go check out that
book.
It's amazing.
But she talks about how there'sdifferent parts inside of us

(29:16):
that are wanting to protectvulnerable emotions, bigger
emotions, and so I kind ofwonder if the people who have
all these extra hobbies andthings that really light them up
, are they just tapping intomore of like aspects of
themselves, that where it'stelling them what makes them
feel good and what to go do?
Like for me, I don't have verymany hobbies, but I definitely
notice parts of myself whereit's like if I haven't worked

(29:37):
out, I gotta go do that.
Like I need that physicalmovement to just shift something
energy-wise.
But for me, like my hobbies aremore intellectual, it's like,
ooh, let's go learn aboutquantum physics today.
Let's go, let's go think aboutthe nature of reality.
I don't know, let's.
So for me, like my hobbies aremore mental and but it's

(29:59):
shifting gears of the mentalaspects, like it's not
authorship, it's not quantumphysics, it's not manifestation,
it's now, you know, self-help,like, like.
It's not authorship, it's notquantum physics, it's not
manifestation, it's now, um, youknow, self-help, like whatever.
It's it healing, um, whatever,yeah, so there, there are
different.
I think there's different waysto be able to tap into that yeah
, multi-passionate people?

Emma Dhesi (30:17):
yeah, very much so.
And I I get the feeling and Imight get lambasted for this but
that because we do so many,because some people do so many
of these different things, thenit's for its own sake.
People are enjoying it.
For its own sake it's not tobecome the best at any one thing
in particular.
So we might never be that sixfigure selling author, we might

(30:39):
never have that back catalogueof 30 books, but along the way
we've enjoyed making this ragrug, or we've enjoyed doing this
sewing, or we've enjoyedscrapbooking and we've enjoyed
writing the book, but it's we'renever going to get all the,
we're never going to get to theend of that pathway because
we're getting pulled in so manydifferent directions and I don't

(31:00):
think one is better than theother, not at all.
But I think it does just dependon how your brain is put
together and what makes you feel.
And I've just been reading abook about this, about
multi-passionate people and howwe often feel as part of the
weirdness, and people are oftensay just choose something and
stick with it, and for some ofus that's just not possible.

Or it's a miserable life if you do do it.
We live in like a specialistsociety right now and and the
generalist is kind of put to theside.
But I think there's a tiktokerthat I follow that she always
talks about, you know, beingthat multi-passionate generalist
because, um, these are the typeof people that are going to end
up kind of taking over anddominating the new economy

(31:42):
whenever it truly shifts,because there's so much we live
in an information age, right andthere's so much knowledge that
these generalists we typicallyhave because we are so
interested and passionate in somany different topics.
And so, you know, it was kindof interesting.
I had a one-on-one coachingclient just last week and, you
know, in the author sphere youknow many of the like I could

(32:06):
never peg myself down to onething.
It was like it didn't feelright to just I'm going to be
the Facebook person or the, youknow, the ad person.
I didn't want.
I didn't want to peg myselfinto that hole, and so I was
doing a lot of differentteachings and understanding a
lot of different things, and itwasn't until talking to this
gentleman and him going oh mygosh, you're a generalist,
you're the type of one-on-onecoach that does these things and

(32:29):
knows all of the stuff, insteadof just like the one, the one
topic he's like.
This is amazing, and so it was,like you know, we had the best.
It was like an entire sixpackage session.
So we did his course over sixdays and it was like we were all
over the place touching oneverything.
And it was like we were allover the place touching on
everything and it was like themost like, even from the
coaching perspective.
So interesting to talk to himbecause he got it.

(32:51):
He understood all thesedifferent pieces, but he knew
that he didn't know them yet.

Emma Dhesi (32:55):
You know, if that makes sense so it sounds like he
was a generalist too and wasjust.
You were just the right personwho could get that about him and
not try and pigeonhole him intoone thing that he, yeah,
enjoyed but didn't want to focushis whole life on.
Because we hear that a lot inthe entrepreneurial life and I
would say the authorpreneuriallife as well pick your niche and
you go with it and you becomeknown for that one thing, so

(33:17):
that couldn't do it, I couldn'tdo it coaching, or it could be
the genre in which we write, butso many people who are creative
find that really hard and wantto be able to express themselves
in doing a children's book anda woman's fiction book and they
want to do a memoir as well, andit's I really like that.

(33:38):
You've said that.
The generalist again.
Just that that there's a wordfor that makes me kind of go
okay, I'm not alone in this.
I'm not.
I might be weird, but I'm notthe in this.
I'm not.
I am.
I might be weird, but I'm notthe only weird person right
there definitely not.

I will have to like send you the link to the
lady that talks about it,because she's amazing, I love
her.
She's like she's so in yourface about it, like don't even
like dim your shine, like thisis how it works, like you know
what I mean.
It's so great and it's like weneed to just accept our
quirkiness and be okay with itand just follow our passions
because, um, you know, if youfollow anyone like daryl anka
and bashar, I don't know if youknow.

(34:09):
Do you know who daryl anka isin bashar?
okay so um bashar is a channeledgroup of entities, um, and so
like they're talking about, likewhen we are human, in our human
form, like our job literally isto just follow our excitement
to the furthest part part.
You can take it and then, whenyou can't take it to to any
further, you find something elseat that level of excitement

(34:32):
that's going to excite you andyou just follow that until you
can take it no further, andthat's literally like what we're
supposed to be doing.
As we explore this reality thatwe live in but in in so many of
us, we're trying to tamp itdown so that we fit into those
boxes.
And as we shift from this likewe were talking before, the call

(34:53):
this 3D reality into 5D reality, we're going to see a lot more
people who are somulti-passionate, because
there's so many cool thingsabout this world to be checking
out and I don't want to spend myentire time talking about
Facebook ads, like what.
No.

Emma Dhesi (35:10):
What?
Talking about Facebook ads likewhat no, what no?
But I do sometimes wonder wouldlife just be simpler if I did,
if I could just choose one thingand stick with it.

It would be so boring I would be, I would be
dead.
I'd be, I'd be snoozing while Iwas talking to people.
I'd be like, anyway, I'm doingthis thing, hang on, let me.
Let me type something over herewhile I'm still talking to you
like I can do that with my kidsand they're like how are you?

Emma Dhesi (35:33):
still typing that did happen to me in an
attempting job I had many yearsago was doing data work on
computers, and every sort of 20minutes or so I'd have to get up
and go to the toilet because Icould just feel myself drifting
off right.
It was awful.
I felt really embarrassed andvery unprofessional, but it was

(35:54):
a real sign to me.
Emma, you are not meant for thebanking world.

Yeah, that is, that is not intellectually
stimulating enough.

Emma Dhesi (36:04):
I'm pretty sure it wasn't for me, that's for sure,
oh isn't that funny.

Yeah, the repetition thing for me is the
same.
It's the same.
It's like I can't do repetitionand I think that's part of the
the problem that I've had withthe podcast.
It's like I don't want to haveto redo episodes, or unless it
like there's something reallynew.
Right, if there's something newand that's really on my mind,
then I'll share it, but it'slike I don't want to have to
keep talking about one topic.
I think about Amy Porterfield,right, and she talks about, you

(36:31):
know, teaching courses and thenlead magnets, and that's all she
really talks about, and everyonce in a while she brings
people in.
That'll kind of be outside thatfringe, but that's like her
world.
I could not do that for yearson end, talking about the same
exact thing.
It just I couldn't do it.

Emma Dhesi (36:46):
No, no, I'm exactly the same.
But I have tried and I don'tknow if you find yourself in the
earlier days as well listeningto people like Amy, who is so
amazing at what she does and isso clear at what she does, and I
wanted to be like her andemulate her.
And same with Denise DuffieldThomas.
You know, yeah, money mindsetthat's her big big thing.
But I found that I just cannotsustain that level of interest

(37:12):
in talking about you know,they've been doing it for 15, 20
years now.
It's like I couldn't do thatfor that length of time.
Instead, I want to bring whatI'm learning to the forefront
and bring that energy andenthusiasm and hopefully inspire
other people to be interestedin learning about what I've been
doing.
And then I'll be superpassionate about that for a
while and then I'll be like,okay, oh, what's this shiny

(37:33):
thing over here?
Let me go and discover that.

And then share it with you.
Same same, and I think you knowit goes back to that like when
you look at the um nature ofreality, you know the universe
is expanding, and Abraham Hickstalks about being on the
forefront of that expansion.
Like we are the consciouscreators on the forefront of
expansion.
And the reason that's happeningis because when new information

(37:55):
comes into us, we're excitedabout it and we grow our
knowledge and we continue toexpand with it.
And so I kind of view ourselveslike that we're at the
forefront, helping others toexpand their awareness, rather
than just staying stagnant inthis one area, and it's not
necessarily like stagnantstagnant, I'm sure they're
bringing in new concepts forthemselves as well, but it's
just, it's like they've notgiven themselves permission to

(38:18):
come out of that just a littlebit, and I couldn't do that to
myself, I don't know why.

Emma Dhesi (38:23):
No no, I guess it's that you think you enjoy the
sort of challenge aspect of itas well, that your brain is
being challenged and yourunderstanding and your
capabilities are beingchallenged and that that is
exciting to you.

Yeah, and it's that growth aspect right.
So it goes back to the growthand understanding and allowing
that knowledge to come in, andthe challenge.
For sure, I've always, I'vealways thrived in those, those
challenge areas.
You know it, just it.
I don't know why it justsparked something in me where
I'm like, heck, yeah, let's trythis, let's see it, let's see
how it works, let's go.

(38:57):
I've never been like that yeah,yeah.
How about you?
Have you always been like thattoo, like where you're always
interested to take on achallenge?

Emma Dhesi (39:07):
I think so.
I think so.
I find I feel like I'm a sortof funny mix of the two.
I really quite like a lazy life.
I'll take the shortcut if I can, but at the same time I am
always looking to learnsomething new, to do something
different, to challenge myself.
But I notice, um and this isagain I I've had this kind of
awareness recently um, that Iwill do as long as it feels safe

(39:31):
.
I'm not very good yet at beingsomeone who goes okay, this is
massive and I'm just gonna throwmyself into it and see what
happens.
Okay, I do tend to be a littlebit more of a baby steps or want
someone else to guide me alongthe way, so I still get the
heart palpitations and theexcitement doing it and that it
could all go wrong.
I do tend to be a little bitmore of a baby steps or want

(39:52):
someone else to guide me alongthe way, so I still get the
heart palpitations and theexcitement doing it and that it
could all go wrong.
But I feel I've given myselfthe steps to do it and so for
that reason, that might be interms of quantum shifts and
quantum jumps that might be oneof the things.
I think it probably is one ofthe things that's holding me
back.
Um, so my next growth in thatarea should I choose to accept
it would be to kind of just jumpin both feet and see what
happens, and if it fails itfails, but if it succeeds, that

(40:15):
could be well it could be, um,the thing that helps you with
that.

It could be like doing the self-help book
from Gabby seriously, becausewhen, when you have that, um,
there's a fine line betweenanxiety and excitement, right?
and so when you can lean into,like, what's what's causing you
to not want to take the leap inexcitement and, kind of tune, go
inward and ask those questionsof yourself, like do you have,

(40:40):
um, a child in there that thatdid something and was just like
completely out there and was sohappy, but you had an uncle who,
like slapped you back and said,no, you can't do that sort of
thing, that's not how, how it'sdone.
And now all of a sudden youthink that that is impossible,
you can't do those things.
And so then the second youthink about doing it, your
nervous system gets dysregulated, which puts you into the whole

(41:00):
fight, flight freeze moment, andso then you can't move unless
you resolve or see, bring tolight those feelings, right?

Emma Dhesi (41:08):
so it's not even distinguish between those two,
that excitement, and becausephysically it's the same, isn't
it?
the excitement and the fearphysically manifest the same,
yeah, yeah yeah they do it's soweird in that little sort of
example that you were givingthere.
You reminded me that a coupleof weeks ago I went into town
with my kids to go shopping andwe went to a record store that
sells all, all sorts of thingsas well as records, and, um, the

(41:32):
kids these days love thesepotluck things, don't they?
They just love these.
And I don't think it was apotluck thing.
But I opened it anyway to havea look and the three of them
just went oh, because somewherealong the line they've been I
don't know if it's come from me,but somewhere along the line
they've been told you can't openthings and have a look at them.
I don't think this was a potluckthing, because I did feel bad

(41:52):
and then we realized no, itwasn't.
But that's just exactly thatexample.
So I've gone there in there andbroken that rule that you don't
open things in the shop untilyou've bought it and taken it
home.
So I wonder how that's thengoing to play out for them.
Is this going to be somethingthat they just think I'm a
criminal, or it will encouragethem that they can?
They can open things and checkthat they work and aren't broken

(42:15):
before they buy?

them right, right, I, I know one.
For me that that brought up waswhen Colin first came here from
England.
Like he, I guess this is justthe way he he's always been, I
don't know if it's, I doubt it'severyone in England but um, you
know, like we'd be going aroundthe grocery store and he would
get like a bag of chips.
This was like when we first gottogether.
He'd get a bag of chips.

(42:36):
He just opened it and startedeating the chips and I'm like
you haven't paid for those yet.
Like what are you doing?
You eat those, yet he's likewhy we're gonna pay for them
when we get to the counter, likewhat?

Emma Dhesi (42:46):
and I'm just like, oh my god, no, but you know,
it's just, it's so weird how weget, we do we get trained on
these like unspoken rules yeah,oh no, I don't think I would do
that, or if I did, I'd be veryum, I'd feel very defensive the
whole way around, waiting forsomebody to say you're not
allowed to do that.

And I know it never does.
I mean really, they're all likegetting paid minimum wage, they
don't care.
They're like do you boo, Likewhatever.

Emma Dhesi (43:16):
But in my head I've blown this up to be this really
big thing and that everybody'sstaring at me and someone's
going to come and call me out onit, but they're not.
It's.
It is a funny state that we getourselves into and can stop
ourselves from doing somethingexciting or doing something new
or a bit or a bit naughty, um,just in case yeah, just to see
what happens, see how you feel,see what goes on like are you

(43:37):
excited about it?

I don't know.
I still can't say that I've everdone that myself, but so now do
you open the bag of chips asyou're going around well, I
don't really eat chips anymoreeither, but um, no, I don't, I
don't think.
I think my the perfectionistHermione side of my brain still
goes you can wait until you gethome, or at least in the car.

(44:02):
Like wait until you get in thecar, then maybe you paid for
them.
Yeah, yeah, oh gosh, too funny.
We are so humans are so funnyhow we give ourselves rules and
you know.
Then, when you see peoplebreaking it, it's like what, how
, what?
And you expect alarm bells togo off.
I mean I'm even looking at likethe united states right now.
I'm like where's the alarmbells right now?

Emma Dhesi (44:24):
people like come on yes, yeah, but I think it is
just a sort of um, you know, ifwe think about ourselves, we are
the sort of hero of our ownstories, aren't we?
And so everything in our liveswe feel we see from our own
perspective.
And if I was just to sort ofthink about our writers, who are
maybe listening, and it's thatsame way with our protagonists

(44:47):
and our characters and ourantagonists in particular, that
each of them are looking to seethe world from their own
perspective, whatever that mightbe.
And you know, our characters gothrough each of these pillars in
their own little way as well,as they go through that
character arc and that journeythat they're having quite often
your protagonist does not havethe awareness that they need to

(45:08):
have, they're not sure wherethey are, they don't understand,
and then a big part of themiddle section is that growth
that they go through and then atthe end and the, the climax of
the scene and the denouement,then they, then they can have
the fun that they've beenthrough that tough, that tough
side.
But it's, yeah, we it's.
It's a journey that we all goon, whether it's in real life or

(45:31):
in our minds or as the rest ofthe world perceives us, but
certainly just even in theshopping, going, grocery
shopping we'll go through these,these, these four pillars.

Absolutely have you.
You know know, success inwriting isn't always about like
what we add, but is there everanything?
Has there ever been anythingthat you've had to unlearn when
it comes to your process, yourwriting, your coaching, business
, whatever that really made ahuge difference in your success?

Emma Dhesi (45:59):
oh, to unlearn?
That's a good question tounlearn?
Um, actually a recent one hasbeen.
So when I first started, thenmy big belief was, if you're
going to be an indie writer,you've got to have a huge, great

(46:20):
big back catalogue and thenyou've got to sell millions of
them and you've got to becomethis six-figure author and it's
about almost like this conveyorbelt and I would go to
conferences and I would see thevery successful people up there
on the podium and I'll be, andthey've published hundreds of
books and thinking that's whatI've got to be able to do, but
confused too about how they've,how do they write so fast and so

(46:43):
quickly?
And so there was a kind of Iattempted to do this for a
period of time and then I had tounlearn this and realize, well,
actually, probably not so muchunlearn it, but realize that I
couldn't learn it, it wasn't inme, and that I'm just a much
slower writer.
And I I do enjoy the characterside of it.
I do want to have deepercharacters.
I don't.

(47:04):
I do want to write books thathave more depth than then really
than you can write if you'republishing a book a month.
So I want to take that time, orI'm, I'm accepting that that's
just the way I am.
I wish I could write adepth-filled book in a month and
I'd have a whale of a time andI'd have a huge back catalogue.
But I just accept andunderstand that that's not the

(47:26):
way I write and so I'm unlikelyunless I suddenly hit the
zeitgeist and I have this bigbestseller that catches fire.
Then it'll be a slow, steadyroad for me and that is okay and
in fact that's probablypreferable for me, because I do
want to do other things.
I don't want to write for 10hours a day, like many of those
writers have to do.

(47:46):
I want to be able to do a fewhours a day and then go and do
the other things in life andspend some time with my kids, or
you know, I want to learn alanguage, all those little
things, and go and read thebooks that you've been
recommending to me and all ofthose other things.
So that has been something thatcertainly helped me, just this,
an idea of slowing down andgoing at my own pace.

(48:09):
I think that certainly helpedme in my own writing and I think
, too, in terms of my coaching,it's helped me have that same
empathy for or understandingthat for my clients, the clients
who I attract, the writers Iattract they're.
They also are writing storiesthat they've been thinking about

(48:29):
for decades usually, and theyhave something to say and they
really want to say it.
Well, they are not looking forthat quick, uh, quick, rapid
release, but they, they, and sothat's why they come to me, I
think, because they understandthat I take my time and that
gives them permission to taketheir time, um and uh, and get
it and write the book that theywant to write.

(48:50):
So I probably say that's theclosest to sort of unlearning.
And in terms of craft, maybe Ican't write to market, so having
to kind of not try and fit thattemplate for writing in a
specific genre, but maybe justtake elements of it and write
the book that I naturally write,which I'm learning, is then

(49:14):
that's how I, you know, my voicecomes, that's how I learn my
voice and I develop my voice asa writer.
And again, that's the same forthe writers that I work with.
We need to take our time tofigure that bit out, because I
think that does take time tofigure that out.

Well, I think so many of us have something
that we're we're really wantingto say, and if you're trying to
fit it into a mold of likewriting to market for every book
, you're not getting.
You still feel silence then,because you don't feel like
you're saying the thing that youyou're meant to be saying.
You're just kind of fitting inwith the sea of all the people
who are saying exactly the samething.

Emma Dhesi (49:49):
Yeah, you know, yeah , yeah I get that and there's a
place for those books as well.
Don't get me wrong, because, um, there are a lot of readers who
maybe have a stressful job andthey just want to read a fun,
fun story at the end of the day.
A friend of mine who was sheused to be a lawyer with, um,
the United Nations and dealtwith some really difficult
things, so she her favorite typeof book.

(50:11):
She just loved Jackie Collinsbecause you know, it was just
fun, it was ridiculous, um, andyou could laugh along with it
and enjoy it and not have tothink about it so good.

I love that.
I mean, obviously, the indiepublishing world moves super
fast.
You know, we've got AI, we'vegot rapid releasing.
Like you just said, algorithmchanges it's.
It's a lot.
Um, how can authors use thefour pillars then to create a
career that's sustainable forthem, instead of burning them
out?

Emma Dhesi (50:40):
yeah, good question, and and this is a big topic now
, isn't it?
I think we have seen so manywriters doing the writing for 10
hours a day, absolutely burningthemselves out.
I think one of the places to umstart with that is sort of
knowing way, knowing whatsuccess will look like for you,
knowing what it is that youactually want to do with your

(51:00):
writing.
I think that why are you doing?
This question is so, sorelevant and probably would
start there before even steppinginto the four pillars.
You know what is it that youwant to do.
Do you want a massive backcatalogue?
Do you have the type ofpersonality and brain that can
write for 10 hours every day?
And, actual fact, you wouldenjoy that?
That's one thing.

(51:21):
But then, understanding ifyou're not, if you've got a
full-on job, if you've got kids,or you've got caring
responsibilities, or or you justdon't want to right you just
you've got that slower pace.
I think starting there is um,that is the best place.
So then you can sort of thinkabout how you're going to go
forward and you know that's thelevel of awareness right there.

(51:42):
Isn't it just aware of what itis that you are trying to do?
And I would say regularly, liftyour head up from the page, if
you can, and sort of look aroundso you get.
You can see what other peopleare doing.
You know, look at the authorsthat you admire and see where
they started from.
I think a lot of newer writersparticularly forget that their

(52:06):
favorite writer was where youare now, where they are now.
You know JK Rowling was sat ina cafe as a single mum trying to
write whenever she could.
Stephen King did have thoseyears where, yes, he was
prolifically writing and he hadTabitha to help him along the
way, but he was still teachingand he was still having to find
a way around it, and even theheight of his alcoholism.

(52:28):
You know we had to manage thatthose demons and do his writing.
So you know, we start, we allstart pretty much in the same
place and then that journey willtake us along whichever path we
make the choices about, andthen just accepting that that is
.
You know, if you do want to dothe rapid releasing, accept that
you're going to have to put inthe hours.

(52:49):
There's no two ways about it,it takes a lot of work or if you
don't want to do that, knowthat it's just going to take you
longer and that that's okay,and don't try and push yourself
into being the type of writerthat you're not naturally fitted
to be.
Um, and in both of thosecircumstances and in all of the
ones that are in between, thegrowth will happen, naturally.

(53:11):
That will happen.
As long as you don't give up,then the growth will happen.
I mean, certainly, when I wrotemy first book, um, the sort of
bet that I gave myself, or thedare that I gave myself, was
just to finish the first draft.
And if I finished that firstdraft, then I'd know was this

(53:31):
just the worst thing I'd everdone?
Did I hate every single minuteof it or did I enjoy it?
Because if I hated it, then I'd, I'd stuck with it, I'd
finished the project.
I'd finished it from beginningto middle and end, and then I
knew I had the experience nowand the evidence of whether I
enjoyed it or not, and then Icould.
Then I could take that off, ifyou like.
I'd done it.

(53:51):
I'd achieved something I'dalways wanted to achieve and
discovered it wasn't what Ihoped it would be.
That in and of itself is huge,huge growth.
Um, and gave would have givenme the awareness that being a
writer was not for me andthankfully I did.
I've got the fun factor and thatkind of feeling that dopamine
hit of having finished thatfirst draft was amazing and I

(54:12):
decided, yes, I did want to goon and revise it, but it's just
not giving up, because I thinkit was two years to do the first
draft and then another five todo the revision.
But slowly, slowly, catchymonkey, you know, just don't
give up.
And if we accept the way thatwe are, as our personalities, as
weird or unweird as we feelthat we are, we will get there.

(54:35):
And if that is in and of itself, will the sustainability will
look after itself.
Just knowing we can't doeverything straight out of the
gate, we don't have to doeverything straight away, we've
got to make it a part of ourlives that feels right and it
will figure itself out as you goalong.
But the most important thingreally is to enjoy it.

(54:56):
Because if you're enjoyingsomething, you can get hyper
focused, you can get, you can doit for hours and hours if
you're enjoying it.
But if you're forcing yourselfto do things that you're too
tired, you're ill, you're notrelishing, it's not the kick
that it used to give you.
It's not the fun that it usedto be you.
It's not the fun that it usedto be.
You're going to burn out somuch quicker and so stop, just
take the break, revisit it.

(55:18):
Do you want to come back to it?
Or, actually, has writing onebook, one memoir, that's
actually been enough for you andthat's all you've needed to do.
And you'll know in your ownheart as well no, I've got so
many more stories I want to tellor books to write, and so it is
an inner thing I'm thinkingabout.
You know, you were mentioningGabby Bernstein there and
looking in kind of examiningself-examination there, the

(55:41):
feelings that you have aroundyour writing.
Do they come from a place ofexcitement or are they coming
from a place of fear?
And then you get to make adecision about it after that.
But just, yes, periodicallycome up for air and kind of
think, okay, where am I now?
What's going on?
Am I still enjoying this?
Do I need a break or am Iraring to go?

yeah, I think that's so key, like have it,
have your why at first, but beokay with the pivot.
If you get presented with somenew evidence and you're like you
know, maybe not, maybe we'llslow down a little bit.
Or, like life circumstanceschange.
I know for me I get very like Imake a decision and I will go

(56:19):
after it and there will be apoint in time if something's not
working the way I want, that Ihave to pause and go.
Okay, is it not working because, like I had unrealistic
expectations?
Is it not working becausethat's not meant for me?
Is that not working because Isubconsciously don't want it?
What's happening here, and thenI have to pause, reassess and

(56:40):
then give myself a new.
Why Does that ever happen?

Emma Dhesi (56:42):
for you too.
Oh, 100%, 100%, yay,particularly, you know,
particularly I mean, being anentrepreneur is, or entrepreneur
it is.
It's hard on.
You're in there on your own andyou're having to make all the
decisions by yourself and a lotof it is problem solving and
sometimes that's exhausting andsometimes you think, well, I've

(57:03):
been trying to problem solvethis for a long, long time and
it's just not happening.
And exactly as you're saying, isthat because I'm doing the
wrong thing?
Is it because secretly, I don'twant it and I haven't?
Just I just haven't admittedthat to myself, I haven't
accepted that yet, right?
Or is the universe trying toshow me another way and open a
different door for me, orclosing this door and opening a

(57:24):
new one for me, pivoting all thetime?
So actually a good examplewould be my first books were
women's fiction, dark, darkwomen's fiction.
I thought you know I keep going.
I would start the book thinking, ok, this time it's going to be
a nice light kind of rom-comtype thing, something fun,
something light, and then bychapter two we've gone down a

(57:47):
really dark path and somethingawful has happened.

You're trying to exorcise some demons, Emma.

Emma Dhesi (58:01):
Yeah, I absolutely was.
So then I thought, well, um,why don't I just go for it, why
don't I just go down the full-onthriller route?
And so I've.
I've gone down that route andtried to hit all the stereotypes
and the tropes and, you know,the genre conventions, but it's
not been good.
The first thriller I wrote wasokay, you know, it was quite
good but not great.
And then the second one, I justcould not get to work, and so

(58:21):
after two years of kind oftrying to figure this book out,
I've had to accept.
First of all I just I don'tthink I'm quite smart enough to
write a thriller, don't thinkI've quite managed that yet, and
so I don't agree with that.
I don't agree with that.
So I've pivoted and gone backto women's fiction and there was

(58:42):
quite a relief that came withthat.
I felt like I was putting on apair of slippers again.
You know, something comfortable, something I'm familiar with.
So I get to make a choice atsome stage.
Do I stick with this?
Is this really what I'msupposed to be writing, and stop
trying to fight it.
Stick with the women's fiction.
Or, you know, later down theline, after I've gone through a
little bit more growth and maybeunderstood things a little bit

(59:04):
better, or brought my own voiceto the thriller genre, instead
of trying to write the next,write the next Freda McFadden or
John Myers, but write my book.
Then maybe the fun bit willcome and the success will come,
because I've I've had that levelof growth.
So I don't know what willhappen.
I am sort of trying to stayopen and see where the universe

(59:26):
is going to direct me to, butsometimes that's.
I don't know if you find this,carissa, but sometimes the
biggest challenge is for me isto open my ears and kind of
listen and stop trying to do itmy way, but actually listen to
what I'm being directed to dofollowing the breadcrumbs from
the universe.

it's interesting what you're talking
about too.
It's like it, I think, um, if myaudience is listening, what's
so fascinating about what youjust said is that, even when you
know all the steps, even whenyou know all the rules and you
know the genre conventions, itdoesn't we're still human, right
?
It doesn't mean we're gonnaalways be perfect.
I think about, like myself,with manifestation, like we

(01:00:07):
still trip ourselves.
We can know how manifestationworks, we can teach how
manifestation works, but westill have our own human brains
and our own human stuff thatwe're healing and working
through.
And sometimes we trip ourselvesup and we get caught in the
same BS that we're teaching younot to be in, like right, and so
it's like we're still human andwe're still trying to do all
the things.
But sometimes you just gottayou gotta go through the lesson

(01:00:29):
and you gotta learn the thingagain and you gotta start over.
And yeah, it just it's part ofthe process for some of us,
because we were trying, I thinkabout it and I've taught about
it.
Where's that learning spiral?
Right, we start at the top andwe keep going, and sometimes we
just got to keep learning thatlesson until we really get it.

Emma Dhesi (01:00:47):
I know Well, I 100% agree, but isn't it frustrating?
You think I've done this 10times already.
I know this.
Why am I still doing the same?

Carissa Andrews (01:00:55):
thing and then all of a sudden it's like
there's obviously something hereI need to heal.
What is it?
What is it?
I'm going to stop doing thethings for a minute.
That was me last summer.
I'm like, nope, nope, I'm, Igotta.
Obviously I've got some inwardstuff I gotta do.
Shadow work comes out in yourchild work comes out.

Hypnosis come out, like all the things yeah, yeah,
and that could be the same forsome of the people listening
today, and they may be in theback of their brain that they
know, they know there's thingsthat they need to look at but
are not ready to go there yet,and that you know I, like
yourself, I've done quite a bitof of work over the years, but
there's still some things I'mnot quite ready to go there yet

(01:01:36):
and we can't do it all at once,but just step by step, by step,
um, or kind of you know aroundthat spiral.
Enough times we'll get there,and with each release that we
have then we'll get furtherforward in what it is that we're
manifesting, bringing intoco-creation and making our lives
better.
So good, so true.

Okay.
So, emma, you're teaching amasterclass for our Author
Revolution Masterclassmembership.
See if I can speak that realfast.
It's going to be happening onFriday, march 21st 2025 at 1 pm
CDT if anyone's listening, whichI know you are.
So how is that class going toexpand on what we've been
discussing today, and what canattendees expect to take away

(01:02:18):
that they might not be gettinganywhere else?

So oh yes, I'm really excited to do this.
So we are going to be lookingat those four pillars, we're
going to go into a little bitmore depth with them and pull
out some examples of where theymight show up in in a person's
life and we're going tounderstand, delve into the sort
of understanding why thesethings are key to our own
success and why this is so, sovital.

(01:02:41):
And obviously I come at it froma writer's perspective, but
really I believe that these canripple out to any area of our
lives.
So if there's if, if somebodycomes to the class and there's
something that they're feelingstuck in, but it's not so much
to do with writing but somethingelse going on, I think the
exercises will still be reallybeneficial.

(01:03:02):
So we'll kind of do a little bitof a deep dive, but the biggest
proportion of it really is is Iwant us to do some exercises
that will have time and space tokind of reflect on some things.
I'll ask some key questions thatwill hopefully open up some
inner dialogue for everybodywho's there, and some journaling
, and then, if people want to,we can kind of share about that,

(01:03:22):
because one of the wonderfulthings about sharing is you
often hear that somebody else isexperiencing a similar thing
there might just be a slightlydifferent twist on it, but
they're going through somethingsimilar or somebody else is able
to articulate something you'reexperiencing but didn't know how
to put into words, andcertainly, when I've been
through experiences like that,it's been such a relief because,

(01:03:46):
first of all, it makes me feela little less weird, but also
someone has given voice tosomething I'm feeling and oh,
okay, and now I understand whereI'm stuck and why I'm stuck,
and that in and of itself, canjust allow me to move forward.
So we'll do a few littleexercises and then, of course,
there'll be some time for someQ&A and um and uh and some

(01:04:07):
feedback.

Yeah, that's so good.
I can't wait.
It's gonna be so much fun.
I love doing exercises likethis and being able to go
through.
I think manifestation is verysimilar to that too, where it's
like, you know, I teachmanifestation for authors and
then I teach it forneurodivergence, but it's like
it expands to more than justbooks or money or any of those
things, like the principlesapply and so when you dig in,
you know, to a lot of this workit's, it's so helpful on so many

(01:04:30):
levels and I just love it.
I think it's so cool and Ithink being weird is awesome.
I used to have a t-shirt when Iwas in high school, literally
that said being weird.
Um, what is it?
I'd rather be weird than normal.
That was my shirt.
I wore it all the time.
I'm like that was my mantra I'drather be weird than normal.

I need that t-shirt.
That's what I'm not writing.
I need that t-shirt, yeah.

I was always that kid that was a little too
advanced when it came to classconsciousness.
I think that was always theweird one, but the cool thing
was like I could get along witheveryone because of the fact
that I understood how everyonewas a little bit different by
embracing that weird.

We've been using that word weirdness I hope no
one's offended by it but thatembracing that side of yourself.
Um, you think, because youweren't embarrassed by it and
you weren't ashamed of it, thatit made other people feel more
at ease as well.

I think so, yeah, because well, I didn't
know at the time that I'm anumber one relator, but I do now
in the CliftonStrengths, and sofor me it was like I can relate
to anybody, I can see wherethey're coming from and why
they're doing what they're doingvery easily.
I kind of blame that on mybrother, I suppose my brother
who had brain tumor, because itcame very early on that I was
interested to figure out howpeople work and how they're

(01:05:41):
different and whatever.
But yeah it, let people open upbecause I would never judge
them in the way that they werejudging others.
Right, and so I kind of becamethat safe place.
So like it didn't matter whatclique it was, they they all
knew that they could talk to meor that, you know, if we were in
a group together because of aschool project or whatever
they're like, oh, she's justchris, that's okay.
So like I was, I was alwayskind of that safe I was.

I was denmark or switzerland or something, I
don't know and so thatconfidence, though to be part to
be okay with that, because, youknow, when we're in high school
, none of us want to be part, tobe okay with that because, you
know, when we're in high school,none of us want to be different
.
The majority of us just want tofit in and kind of be unseen.
And I've certainly stood out inour school.
We were a very, very smallschool.
We were the only family ofcolor and my dad was my maths

(01:06:25):
teacher, so I also had a parentwho's a teacher in the school
and so just a lot of things mademe feel like I stood out and
was different and was weird.
But it doesn't.
It sounds like whatever wasgoing on for you somewhere.
You were like okay with thatand not trying to hide that, and
just do you think that's innatewithin you or do you think that

(01:06:47):
was something your parents gaveyou?

I think it probably stemmed from my family,
because for me, like I had,like I said, I had my brother
who had a brain tumor and so hewas developmentally delayed
because of that.
I had an aunt who was like mybest friend growing up, because
she's about five years olderthan me but she had Down
syndrome, and then I had anuncle who has schizophrenia.
So to me it's like I've seenweird like you, don't you kids
at school don't know weird.
It's kind of like mypersonality, right, and I'm also

(01:07:11):
very socially justice oriented,and so I didn't, I didn't allow
people to pick on people likemy brother Scott, Right, or my
aunt Brenda.
I'm like no, these are peoplelike.
I know that these are normalpeople, like they might not look
like you, they might not talklike you, but they have awesome
depth and thought and all thethings.
And so I was very, I was verymuch like on their side.

(01:07:31):
So if people were going to bebullies to those people, I was
like no f off.
And so I I knew innately that Iwas not as weird in their eyes
as them, and so there was likethe spectrum that I could see,
you know, and so I kind of fellin the middle.
I'm like, okay, I'm weird,whatever.

So it didn't bother me at all oh, it's so
commendable, though, that that'show.
That was your natural responseto it, rather than trying to
distance yourself from it and beembarrassed or, you know,
pretend it's not happening.
Yeah.

I think that that definitely let me um take
on new challenges readily.
Like I, I don't.
I don't shy away from those newchallenges.
I'm like you don't like AI howweird are you guys?
Because it's awesome.
Like what?

oh, I need a bit more of that, carissa.
I need a bit a bit more carissa.
Andrews, that's what I need.

There you go just follow me, emma, it's fine,
I'll show you.
It's so fun.
I love chat, I love playingwith chad, so good, oh well, uh,
we've talked about an awful lot, so I'm gonna say okay right
now.
If anyone is wondering how do Iembrace the four pillars, uh, I
don't know where to start.
What do I do right now?
Because obviously the masterclass isn't for like another

(01:08:43):
month yet by the time you hearthis episode.
So where can they go?
How do they find out more aboutthis whole situation?
How do they, how do theyconnect with you?

good question.
So the easiest place to findout about everything to do with
me is to go to my website, emmadesicom, but specifically for
the four pillars, I do have alittle cheat sheet for people.
So if you were to go to emmadesicom forward, slash four
pillars and that's the numberfour pillars, though you'll be
able to download that cheatsheet and it'll be a good
reminder of what we've talkedabout and probably a great thing

(01:09:14):
to look at before we have theworkshop, because then it'll be
things that you can beruminating about and thinking
about.
How do they apply to your ownlife?
And now that you're aware ofthem as well, do you start to
notice when you fall into one ofthose pillars and are you happy
to be in that pillar?
Do you want to change thatpillar?
And do you know?
You just need to sit with thatpillar for a while, and that

(01:09:36):
kind of awareness will just helpyou along.
You'll already be making aflying start even before the,
even before the workshop that isso, so good.

I love it.
Well, emma, thank you so muchfor coming on sharing so much.
We talked about so many thingstoday.
I'm so thrilled, so thank youfor being here, and I can't wait
for your class coming up, ohit's a pleasure, carissa, so
lovely to see you.

Thank you.

Wow, what an incredible conversation with
Emma Desi.
Every single time we gettogether, we always have such a
blast.
I also love how her fourpillars to author success remind
us that writing is a journey,not a straight line.
So if today's episode resonatedwith you, take a moment to
reflect.
Which pillar are you currentlyin Awareness, acceptance, growth

(01:10:20):
or fun?
I know for me, I'm probablysomewhere in between every
single one of them.
It's kind of funny because Ibounce around and I'm back and
forth and I'm reminding myselfdaily to have that fun piece
added in, right, how about you?
Definitely growth.
Definitely acceptance for whereI'm at and awareness that I can

(01:10:40):
be accepting of where I'm at.
It's a crazy cycle, isn't it?
And if you're ready to takethis framework even deeper,
don't forget Emma is teachingour Author Revolution March 2025
Masterclass on the four pillarsto author success.
This is your chance to workwith her and get the guidance
you need to move through thesephases with confidence.
Head over to authorrevolutionorgforward slash 269 for all of

(01:11:02):
the details and to find a way toreserve your spot.
But wait, there's more.
If you're looking to uplevelyour manifestation game and step
into your millionaire authorself, get ready, because the
doors to the Millionaire AuthorManifestation course are opening
on March 1st.
You can either join one of myexclusive webinars to snag a
special discount or just makesure that you're on my email

(01:11:25):
list so you don't miss out.
This year's class officiallykicks off on St Patrick's Day,
so get ready to manifest someserious success Again.
All you have to do is head overto authorrevolutionorg, forward
slash 269 for all the details.
I will include information onthe upcoming webinars and, like
I said, sign up for my emaillist if you're not on there, so

(01:11:46):
that you can get a specialdiscount, as always.
If you've enjoyed this episode,don't forget to subscribe,
leave a review and share it withyour fellow author friends,
because we all need a littlereminder that success isn't just
about the destination, but thepath we take to get there.
Until next time, go forth andstart your author revolution.

(01:12:07):
Thank you.

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