November 27, 2023 • 36 mins
Bold statement: indie publishing is a maturing industry.
A few weeks ago, The Author Wheel attended the 20Books to 50k conference in Las Vegas, and in this episode we're going to talk about our experiences.
Our biggest takeaway? There are dozens, possibly hundreds, of different strategies for author success. Moreover, the very definition of success depends on the author and what they're looking to get out of their writing. With nearly two thousand writers in attendance, we saw it all, and talked about most of it.
The landscape of publishing is changing once again. We highlight successful indie authors who have secured contracts, expanded their reach through film and audio book adaptations, and built impressive careers. Understanding your genre, treating your books as a catalog, focusing on your target audience, and building a growth mindset are critical.
Listen in to learn more!
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Megan Haskell:
Website: www.MeganHaskell.com
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hi everyone and welcome to the Author Wheel
podcast.
I'm Greta Boris, USA TodayBestselling Mystery Thriller.
Author.
Speaker 2 (00:08):
And I'm Megan Haskell , award-winning fantasy
adventure author, and togetherwe are the Author Wheel.
So this week we're skipping ournormal intro and diving right
into our discussion of the 20books to Vegas, 20 books to 50 K
Vegas conference that we wentto at the beginning of the month
, and this is a really excitingtopic for us because, well, it
(00:31):
was just a great event.
Quite honestly, it waseye-opening and inspiring and
motivational and we're going totalk all about it and it's kind
of our biggest news anyway.
So we kind of just figured we'ddive in.
We're really excited about it.
So there you go.
So, greta, why don't you start?
You have not actually been toan indie author conference
(00:54):
before.
You've been to traditionalconferences, but not indie.
So what was your overallimpression, what did you think
of the con and are you going togo back with me next year?
Speaker 1 (01:07):
Well, it blew me away .
I have to say it totally blewme away.
My overall biggest impressionwas how much the indie author
industry has matured the days ofI'm just going to throw my buck
up on Amazon that they are over.
Speaker 2 (01:29):
Long gone.
Speaker 1 (01:30):
Long, long gone.
I mean this is a it's reallybecome a mainstream business you
know an industry.
It's a true industry.
I mean, what was there?
Like 2,000 people there.
Speaker 2 (01:47):
I think it was like yeah, I think it was like 1,800,
something like that, yeah.
Speaker 1 (01:51):
Yeah, and which is absolutely huge.
You know, maybe Thriller Festgets that many people, but a lot
of the traditional conferencesare much smaller than that.
And then just the vendors thatwere there were pretty
impressive, like big companiesthat make you know that survive,
(02:14):
serving the indie authorcommunity Well and traditional.
But that was another thing too,that there were companies that
have traditionally servedtraditional publishing.
There was a lot of traditionalsin there but now they're
reaching into the indie authorcommunity and I like it was
(02:35):
pretty impressive.
Speaker 2 (02:36):
Yeah, yeah, actually.
So let's kind of walk throughit a little bit.
So the first day we got thereMonday morning and we did travel
together.
So when I say we, I literallymean we we got there Monday
morning.
And the first day on Monday itwas just an industry expo, which
I thought was, you know, reallykind of interesting.
(02:58):
It was a whole day.
Everybody had set up, you know,their tables, exhibition hall
style kind of event, and it wasa full packed ballroom, like it
was, and it was a big ballroomtoo, yeah, and it just
completely filled with tables,and so everybody from Plotter
was there to audiobookpublishers like Dreamscape and
(03:23):
Tantor Draft, to digital wasthere, yeah, amazon, amazon was
there.
Amazon had a huge presence.
Speaker 1 (03:31):
Yes, they really did, and they ran all kinds of
workshops which, I'm sorry tosay, I was going to go to some,
but I didn't make it becausethere was just so many workshops
to choose from.
Speaker 2 (03:43):
Yeah, yeah, but and then all sorts of other new
tools and technologies andservice providers.
You know people offering adshelp or book marketing help, or
you know all sorts of differentthings.
So there's a whole industry nowaround the indie author
industry which is kind of thislike mind blowing kind of a
(04:05):
thing.
I mean I have gone to thisconference before, but it was
before COVID, so it's been aboutyou know four or five years
since I've gone, and when I wentthey did not have the industry
expo thing at all, it was justthe author events.
And so it's definitely evenjust in the last five years it
(04:25):
has definitely expanded andmatured and turned into a much
bigger, more impressive and, Iwould argue, more beneficial
event even than it was fiveyears ago.
Speaker 1 (04:39):
Well, I can't speak to what it was five years ago,
but I can say that it was verybeneficial for anybody who is
really thinking about makingwriting and publishing an actual
career versus a hobby.
Even for hobbyists I think itwould be fun, but I think just
(05:01):
because it'll just blow you awayall the toys out there to play
with.
Speaker 2 (05:05):
You know, it's just a lot of stuff out there which is
really fun.
Well, that's actually one ofthe things that I found so
interesting, though, is thatthere were a lot of people there
, obviously, who were making sixfigures from their fiction, or
wanted to be making six figuresfrom their fiction, but there
were also a lot of diversity inthe kinds of authors that were
(05:30):
there and the strategies thatthey were actually using to get
their books out there.
So I'm not sure.
I actually think it's aconference for writers now and
writers who want to reachreaders.
So, whether or not that's afull time income, day job kind
of a thing, or whether that'smore of a hobbyist but hey, I'd
(05:51):
like to sell and have asupplemental income, kind of a
thing or just reach readers, Ithink all of those goal sets are
served and becoming maybe nottalked about yet, but there's an
awareness that I think isgrowing around that diversity of
strategy, diversity of goals,diversity of author
(06:13):
personalities and skill sets andall of that stuff which, of
course, I harp on all the time.
Speaker 1 (06:18):
Yeah, well, we harp together.
I also thought it wasinteresting.
You know, there's this, thisidea that the only people who
make money writing andpublishing their own bugs, the
only Indian authors who makemoney are romance.
Well, hello, that is not true.
There are people from everysingle genre, including
(06:40):
nonfiction writers there, yeah,and that are that are making an
income, making a living fromtheir books.
And that is really encouragingtoo, because sometimes sitting
at home and just looking at theinternet and this, and that we
kind of get the woes me, doomand gloom.
Publishing is dying.
People don't read anymore.
(07:01):
You know, everybody's watchingNetflix.
They're not going to read yourbooks, blah, blah, blah, blah,
blah.
Well, hello, I don't thinkthat's true.
Speaker 2 (07:11):
Yeah, I don't.
I don't think it is.
I think a lot of that thatNetflix binge mentality.
It does negatively impact thetraditional industry that
traditionally published authorsand books, because unless you
already have a massive backlist,you know your readers can't
binge if you're only publishingonce a year which is you know, a
(07:32):
drop out for people like me.
Speaker 1 (07:35):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (07:37):
I mean, I think, that's whatever.
Speaker 1 (07:38):
They can binge your books in like 10 years.
Speaker 2 (07:43):
I'm building that back.
You're building the binge, butbut I do think that I mean, I
think that's the, the authorsthat are doing very, very well
purely on fiction, purelyfinancially.
I can't speak to their, youknow author sustainability or
all of that other stuff, not thephysical health, any of that
(08:05):
but the ones that are doing verywell are the ones that have
bingeable series or they havebingeable backlists.
You know you do get.
You do get some that knock itout of the park with their debut
and and just kill it and that'samazing.
But on the whole, on theaverage, if that's what you're
(08:28):
looking for, you got to work onbuilding that backlist.
Speaker 1 (08:31):
That was definitely a takeaway For me.
Before I talk about that wassomething else I wanted to
mention, because we can get intothat a little bit, a little bit
more a bit.
But there's a bigger differencebetween going to traditional
conferences versus this indieauthor my first indie author
conference, as you, as you,mentioned.
(08:53):
There used to be this thoughtand it's still out there a
little bit in traditionalpublishing that if you publish
indie then you will never betaken seriously by the
traditional publishing world,like you're just ruining your
chances for ever getting atraditional deal.
(09:15):
Well, that was blown out of thewater.
This was it two weeks ago.
Now I lost a week because Icame home with COVID, yeah, so
that was just wrong.
I mean, there were a couple oftraditional publishers small,
granted smaller publishers, butstill there were a couple of
(09:36):
traditional publishers there I'dsay at least three that were
looking to pick up in theauthors.
There was also the traditionalextra kind of things like
audiobook.
Yeah, there was severalaudiobook companies that like
Tantor, the one that I'm goingto be working with.
(09:57):
They also work with bigpublishing houses and big
traditional.
So they that that's, butthey're working with both.
Yeah, and that that is my, youknow.
My point is that this idea thatsomehow you've shamed yourself
if you indie publishing, youknow and cheapened yourself and
(10:20):
that traditional publishers arenever going to look at you is
not true.
We watched and we won't mentionnames, but we watched a woman
who is very successful indiepublished author and verbally
negotiate a contract with a trad, a trad publishing company,
(10:40):
right in front of our littlefaces.
Speaker 2 (10:42):
Yeah, it was.
It was crazy and there weremultiple similar stories like
that of other authors at theconference who you know publish.
Indie did well and we're either, you know, pitching new series
to publishers, getting interestor even signing contracts for a
new series, or even, you know,republishing old series.
But I think that's kind of whatI don't know like.
My point is that you know, youknow you're not going to be able
(11:02):
to do that.
Yeah, I think that's what I'mgoing to be doing.
Yeah, I think that's what I'mgoing to be doing.
Yeah, I think that's what I'mgoing to be doing.
Big, broad, vague impression isthat this industry is maturing.
With that maturity is coming,actually, for once, less black
and white thinking and there isbecoming more options and more
(11:24):
variability and how people findsuccess, how they define success
and that hybrid mentality thatI'm going to choose the best
path for what I'm trying to dowith this thing and then take
that thing, whatever that IP isat, intellectual property and
expand it into new avenues,whether that's audio books or
(11:47):
whether that's film One of ourgood friends which we're hoping
to have on the show next year,jonathan.
He has done very well witheBooks and traditional fiction,
not traditional published, butindie published fiction.
He's done very well, built ahuge audience and now he's
(12:07):
getting into film and he's indie, producing his own films and
his own web serials and thingslike that.
It's amazing.
He didn't wait for permission,he just went for it.
Speaker 1 (12:21):
Interestingly enough on that that once he started
putting some of that up onYouTube.
Now he has an entertainmentlawyer who wants to work with
him.
Now he has a traditional agentwho's pitching his work to Big 5
because they want it to be outin book form to build an
audience and they're shoppingaround a contract for TV series
(12:47):
and things like that.
So I mean he's taken his indiestuff and he's mainstreaming it.
Speaker 2 (12:53):
Yeah, it's such a mindset shift to say you're an
author instead of just sayingI'm a writer, therefore I'm
going to write a novel,therefore I'm going to publish
said novel, the end.
Now there's this wholedifferent, shifting mindset
where people are like, well,yeah, but I can also do this and
(13:13):
I can also do that.
No, for marketing, I'm going totry this and I'm going to try
that.
Maybe one thing works and theother doesn't, or because of the
way I work, my skill sets, Ican follow this path.
Whatever it is, but it'sthinking beyond just the novel,
which is amazing to me.
It's just amazing.
Speaker 1 (13:32):
I went to several workshops on foreign rights
because that's something thatreally interests me too.
My big takeaway from that ispitch a publisher.
I don't want to do it myself,but there are people doing it
themselves and doing really,really well.
Yeah, there is an industrybuilt up around that ways to do
(13:55):
it people who will help you,translators, all the things.
So it's just fascinating whatpeople are doing, yeah.
Speaker 2 (14:05):
And I want to touch on one other thing here too is
that it is a highly competitivemarket now.
You can't just throw a book upon Kindle and expect to succeed,
and expect to knock it out ofthe park and make a million
dollars like the early days.
That just doesn't work anymore.
Speaker 1 (14:22):
Right.
Speaker 2 (14:23):
So it is highly competitive to get eyeballs to
get, which.
That sounds awful, but it'skind of true to get visibility.
Speaker 1 (14:30):
It works for me.
I like the mortician series,like the horse I don't know if
you took that eyeball.
Speaker 2 (14:35):
I'm all right, all right.
So to get eyeballs on your work, you have to get visibility.
To get visibility, you need toknow your market.
You need to know your genre.
That market is going to dependon that genre and the subgenre
and your overall strategy.
You really have to think thisstuff through.
So it's very competitive.
But, especially at thisconference, I feel like and
(15:00):
maybe because of the foundingmentality and how they built the
conference over the years, Ithink correct me if I'm wrong
that this is very different thanthe traditional cons, but the
authors don't go there saying,trying to puff themselves up and
be better than the personsitting next to them.
(15:21):
It's not competitive betweenauthors in that same way.
Instead, it's actually therising tides metaphor and that
building of community and thathelping one another, teaching
one another, was really profoundand prevalent throughout the
(15:41):
conference.
I don't think I noticed anybodyreally trying to be better than
, or present themselves asbetter than, the person next to
them.
It was well, I have this skillset.
Let me teach you this thing andyou teach me something in
return, and we're all going towork together to make this
industry and these books better,which is so cool.
Speaker 1 (16:02):
Yeah, I totally think that that is true.
I do think that probablybecause this happened to me a
little bit here and there and itprobably did happen to others
that sometimes you just gotaround somebody who was super
successful and it wasn't them.
They were being lovely,whatever, but the feeling was,
(16:23):
oh my gosh, I can never do whatthey did, or that little bit of
awe.
Speaker 2 (16:27):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (16:29):
But I mean, that's every industry, isn't it?
And thank God there are peoplethat are doing that, because
that's our own perspective.
We can either look at them andgo, oh, I'll never do that, or
we can look at them and go, hey,they did it, it's possible.
Speaker 2 (16:43):
Therefore, maybe I can, and so but that was sort of
it the growth mindset versusscarcity mindset.
Speaker 1 (16:50):
Exactly and honestly.
It's true, a lot of the readersthat the indie community is
servicing, so to speak, are thewhale readers, are readers who
read a lot of books and, by andlarge, indie books are priced a
(17:11):
little bit better than theirtraditional counterparts.
So, other than the librarysystem, which a lot of people
who read, I read a lot oftraditional books through the
library system, but indie booksare priced more competitively.
So you just can't.
I don't care if you write abook a month, you still can't
(17:33):
write enough to service yourreaders, because some of those
readers read a book a day.
And no, there was one personthere that I talked to who
writes like a book a day.
Speaker 2 (17:47):
But he doesn't.
Speaker 1 (17:49):
I'm not all.
I'm going to say we don't wantthe hate mail here, guys,
because I wasn't excited aboutit.
But he is there.
He is using AI to write hisbooks and that's going to be an
interesting thing to see wherethat goes.
I cannot imagine that thosebooks are going to satisfy
(18:10):
readers, but who knows somethingto see?
Speaker 2 (18:15):
Yeah, it's definitely something to keep an eye on.
I don't want to go into thattangent of this discussion too
much right now, but AI ingeneral is something that we're
going to have to be cognizant of, aware of and figure out what
it means for the industry.
Speaker 1 (18:36):
Yeah, yeah, I think.
Anyway, yes, we'll save thatdiscussion for a day when we
have somebody who really knowswhat they're talking about and
we will interview them on that,because Megan and I do not, I
just that's.
all I'm going to say is that Idid have a conversation.
Well, actually I listened tosomeone who talked about that
(18:58):
and it was a little like oh mygoodness, this is happening.
Yeah, so moving right along.
Other than that, I do think youare 100 percent right.
There was just a really nicesense of community and people
willing to help one another andteach one another and cross
(19:19):
promote with one another.
I have some really fun plansfor cross promoting next year,
that when I get my little tissueand gear and get it going.
Speaker 2 (19:30):
Yeah Well, and I think the interesting thing as
well for me was I actuallydidn't go to a ton of the
courses.
I went to a few and they werevery informative and very
helpful, but the vast majorityof the courses or the actual
workshops or whatever, werebeing filmed, so if you bought
your ticket you could just watchthe recording later.
(19:51):
So for me this conference wasall about community.
It was all about thosenetworking opportunities and
hanging out with people in thelittle lounge salon area and
sharing ideas or having a drinkafterward and talking about what
they're doing that's workingreally well for them right now
(20:13):
and thinking for myself how isthat possible to incorporate, Is
it not?
Does it fit my strategy, Doesit not?
What am I trying to accomplish?
And kind of bouncing thoseideas around in a community of
very successful, very drivenauthors with really great ideas.
You don't get that at home.
(20:34):
You just don't Like even takingall the courses and all the
learning in the world which I'ma number one learner, I love to
learn you don't get that sameimpact as actually networking
and talking with these peopleone on one.
Speaker 1 (20:50):
Yeah, because everything's sort of theoretical
when you're learning it.
But when you actually aretalking to people who have done
this thing and are successfuldoing it, or they did this thing
and they weren't successfuldoing it, I mean, just those
conversations are really big,they're huge.
(21:10):
They give you.
It's a sorting out sort of athing which, honestly, I think
that this whole conferencereally did emphasize to me the
importance of our Clarify,Simplify, Implement sort of a
process that we are noodlingaround and trying to bring out
(21:31):
to you, the listeners, in a moreformal way so that people can
actually be guided through theseprocesses.
Yeah, I think it's critical.
Honestly, it's critical.
Speaker 2 (21:46):
That's why I came away and immediately started
working.
Well, I also was lucky enoughthat I did not get COVID,
because I had it in the summer.
I was lucky I got it early, Iguess, anyway.
But I immediately came awayinspired to start my new
(22:06):
sub-stack and start talkingabout these ideas and these
concepts and the filter, really,that our system provides,
because this Clarify, simplifyImplement.
It sounds easy, it soundssimple, but it's one of those
things you have to practice overand over and over.
I have so many thoughts and somany concepts and things I want
(22:29):
to share and ideas that came outof this conference that fit
within that structure.
If you haven't already, gocheck out my sub-stack.
Yes, it's called Clarify,simplify, implement.
There will be a link in theshow notes.
Speaker 1 (22:46):
I'm really glad that you're writing it because it's
going to help us as you clarifyyour thoughts.
It will help us simplify theway we want to present them to
people and then we can implementit.
It's just amazing, so I'm soglad you're doing that,
absolutely.
Speaker 2 (23:02):
I think it's going to be great.
I do, I really do.
I think it's going to be great.
I already put together my topiclist.
I have this spreadsheet thatI've got 25 or 30 posts already,
topic ideas not outlined,because I just sit down and
write.
Anyway, at least my idea isI've got 25 or 30 already in the
(23:24):
hopper ready to go.
This is going to take methrough at least the next few
months.
I can't write more than acouple of weeks, I don't think.
But we're going to get therebecause I do think it's
important.
I think, going back to yourpoint about being next to Jane
Doe, author who's doingsomething amazing and incredible
(23:45):
and being really, reallysuccessful and you look at that
guy, I could never do that.
I'm never going to besuccessful.
That's the wrong mindset,because that's the wrong goal.
I think using our system, usingthe Clarify, simplify,
implement structure, you canfigure that out.
There's so much room in thisindustry, in this job, for all
(24:06):
different kinds of authors, alldifferent kinds of strategies
and platforms.
I think that's as the industrycontinues to mature.
That's what's going to become.
More and more apparent is thatit's not a one-size-fits-all job
more so than any other well, Ican't speak to other creative
(24:28):
industries, but at least more sothan a corporate job.
It is not one-size-fits-all.
There is not a simple jobdescription that you can do
these tasks and you can get yournext promotion.
That's not the way it works.
Understanding that you are notperfect, sign 타고 filter to cut
through the overwhelm, to cutthrough those all brilliant,
(24:49):
wonderful ideas that might workfor Jane Doe but might not work
for you.
This is a filter to help youfigure out what those what will
work and what won't workhopefully so on.
Speaker 1 (25:01):
My final little personal takeaway from the
conference was something thatactually is that kind of thing
Like I got inspired in a uniqueway.
Well, I'll just tell you whatit is.
First, I drive my husband crazywith this like bill a big build
(25:21):
up to what I'm going to tellyou.
First I'm going to tell youabout what I'm going to tell you
, then I'm going to tell youAnyway don't bury the lead,
greta, just say it.
So very in the lead, I know it'sjust terrible.
So I heard a very, very, verysuccessful cozy mystery writer
say to think of your work as acatalog versus as just
(25:44):
individual titles or even asseries.
You know, and I loved that, itjust hit me like we.
For me, I felt like that's whatI want to do.
I want to create this immersiveworld that is interconnected.
So, whether it's the will soonbe repackaged seven deadly sin
(26:05):
series or it's my morticianseries or some spin off series
ideas that I have, that theyhave this interconnected world.
That was a sort of a claritymoment for me, that big takeaway
for me, and so much so thatwhen I finished the six book in
the mortician series, I actuallyhave a scene where I wrote in
(26:27):
the detective from the sevendeadly sin series she just
entered the thing.
It was like, oh my gosh, comeon in girlfriend.
Speaker 2 (26:34):
Join this.
Speaker 1 (26:36):
You're all in the same world.
This is great.
So that was a big takeaway forme, and I'm bringing it up
because you don't entirely agree, which is the wonderfulness of
this.
Speaker 2 (26:49):
Yeah Well, so I don't .
I mean I think it can work.
I think absolutely.
For some authors that is abeautiful and wonderful way
forward, but not allpersonalities, not all brains
work that way and sometimes yourcreative inspiration is going
to take you off into a newdirection.
(27:12):
And so I also feel like that,yes, that can work, but also it
can work to have separate series, but you still, I do think,
need a unifying theme.
We'll call it, and I don't meanthat like a traditional, like
book theme or literature in aliterary sense.
(27:33):
I mean it more as a careersense.
I mean this is why we have theSeven Days Declarity mini email
course which you can take forfree, link in the show notes.
But what that does is it givesyou that North Star, that
overarching theme for yourcareer, for your catalog.
Again, thinking of your bookslike a catalog.
(27:54):
I do like that concept, I justtake it a little bit more vague
rather than being interconnectedseries and spin-offs and
everybody should be doing this,because not everybody should but
I do think that having a theme,having a way to unify your
books for readers so that theyknow what they're going to get
(28:16):
from you as the author, as theperson who is bringing them this
experience.
And I do think to kind of endour little discussion here a
little bit, I think that's kindof.
The key is finding the way tobring readers an experience, and
they always should know whatthey're going to get.
And that's how you can use pennames to differentiate.
(28:36):
If you want to write in twocompletely different genres,
like if you're writing thrillerson one side and you're writing
sci-fi on another, then have twodifferent pen names, have two
different unique pieces ofyourself.
Unify each of those piecesunder a theme so that readers
know what they can get.
And then yeah, if it's spin-offs, great, that is a spectacular
(28:57):
strategy.
But if it's just theories thathave similar types of characters
, similar tropes, similarliterary themes or ties in the
genre, however, you can think ofthat catalog as being your
author presence to give readersan experience, I think that's
(29:19):
finding the way to make thatwork for you, is what's going to
ultimately hopefully bringsatisfaction and success for a
career-minded author.
Speaker 1 (29:30):
Yes well lots of caveats there, yeah okay, so,
but you all are going to hearthat word catalog from me a lot
in 2024, I think, because it wasjust like, yeah, brain blew up,
so anyway, that's my soundeffects.
Okay, so there was one morething that we were going to say
(29:55):
that this was actually the lastofficial 20 bucks Vegas
conference.
But it is being taken over newmanagement which you will hear
more from us as in 2024.
And it'll be called authornation and we are just excited
that I think it's going to havea facelift because that, as we
(30:16):
said, are in the beginning.
That this industry has really,really matured in the runaway
train is fabulous, but I couldsee it being a bit of a runaway
train and getting some newpeople with some new
perspectives and maybe a littlemore energy, a fresh energy, I
should say, to kind of corral.
(30:38):
The runaway train will probablybe really, really exciting.
Speaker 2 (30:42):
Yeah, the little bit that we know so far.
I am very excited to see whereit goes, where they take it and
how they change it for next year.
I mean, I know some people arereally worried about it, that
there's a lot of concern thatit's going to lose some of its
indie feel or that communityfeel.
(31:03):
But I do think that they'rethey're trying very hard not to
lose that but rather to takethat and expand it and be and
move it into the future.
Speaker 1 (31:14):
Yeah, I feel like organize it.
Yeah, even it's like, yeah, theindie feel is great, but but it
was a little overwhelming for aperson coming in their first
time, yeah, and I think if itwas a little bit better
organized in terms of tracks andyou know those kinds of things,
it will make it easier forpeople to navigate and new
(31:35):
people to navigate, yeah, andthat kind of thing.
Speaker 2 (31:38):
Yeah, I think so.
So I'm excited we will sharemore information as we have it
for the conference.
I think at this point I amdefinitely planning on at least
attending next year and we'llsee, if you know, we have other
opportunities.
We're hoping there might beother opportunities in a very
variety of areas to participate,but I am at least planning for
(32:01):
sure on being there.
Greta, I know you got covid.
Speaker 1 (32:06):
Well, I I love the idea, and especially if we have
some opportunities and they willdefinitely be there, and if I
am going back I'm going to bevexed all over the place.
I got a flu shot, so I didn'tget the flu and that was nice.
But I will get covid.
I'll get the flu shot, I'lltake my vitamins, I'll do juice
(32:28):
fast.
I'll do it all.
Yeah, that was just not fun tocome home.
Speaker 2 (32:33):
I felt like I got hit by a truck, so yeah quite a few
, quite a few people we know didend up with covid.
So it is important to take careof yourself, so keep that in
mind too.
Speaker 1 (32:41):
Yes, yes.
Speaker 2 (32:42):
But hopefully it'll all work out and we'll maybe see
y'all next next year.
Speaker 1 (32:48):
Yeah, so anyway, last word, I keep saying that and we
keep talking, which is sodifficult for us.
Anyway, as a result of theconference, we have met a lot of
amazing people like really,really cool people, and so, and
(33:08):
of course, we chatted them upwhenever we had the opportunity
and, consequently, we have someverbal promises from some
fabulous guests for you guysthat have told us they're coming
on the show in 2024.
So we're going to be actuallyscheduling them and when we have
(33:29):
them actually scheduled, we canstart announcing who.
Speaker 2 (33:33):
But it is going to be awesome, I am so, looking
forward to it, it is going to bea good year, very good year.
Speaker 1 (33:40):
Yeah, so if you have not subscribed, oh seriously,
people, what are you waiting for?
Just just just hit that littlebutton, that little follow
button, subscribe button, sothat you don't miss anybody
coming out, All these amazingpeople.
Speaker 2 (33:55):
And if you do like the show, please leave us a
review.
On whatever platform you pickup your podcasts from, we love
to see those, obviously, and itdoes help spread the word for,
hopefully, something that'sinformative and entertaining for
you to share it with otherwriters in the world.
Yes please, yeah.
And then one last thing for meto.
(34:17):
I mentioned it earlier and I'llmention it again, but I did
just start my brand new substack.
So if you want to hear more ofmy thoughts and it's pretty much
going to be me Greta's going tobe chipping in when she can,
but I am, I am running with thisone.
Speaker 1 (34:33):
I'm working on my catalog.
Speaker 2 (34:38):
So if you want to hear more of my thoughts on
writing publishing and ourclarify, simplify, implement
system, make sure you pop overthere and check it out.
I will put the link in the shownotes, along with the link to
our seven days to author clarityEmail mini course, which is
free when you sign up for ourlist.
(34:58):
So until next time, storiesrolling.
Hi everyone and welcome to the Author Wheel
podcast.
I'm Greta Boris, USA TodayBestselling Mystery Thriller.
Author.
Speaker 2 (00:08):
And I'm Megan Haskell , award-winning fantasy
adventure author, and togetherwe are the Author Wheel.
So this week we're skipping ournormal intro and diving right
into our discussion of the 20books to Vegas, 20 books to 50 K
Vegas conference that we wentto at the beginning of the month
, and this is a really excitingtopic for us because, well, it
(00:31):
was just a great event.
Quite honestly, it waseye-opening and inspiring and
motivational and we're going totalk all about it and it's kind
of our biggest news anyway.
So we kind of just figured we'ddive in.
We're really excited about it.
So there you go.
So, greta, why don't you start?
You have not actually been toan indie author conference
(00:54):
before.
You've been to traditionalconferences, but not indie.
So what was your overallimpression, what did you think
of the con and are you going togo back with me next year?
Speaker 1 (01:07):
Well, it blew me away .
I have to say it totally blewme away.
My overall biggest impressionwas how much the indie author
industry has matured the days ofI'm just going to throw my buck
up on Amazon that they are over.
Speaker 2 (01:29):
Long gone.
Speaker 1 (01:30):
Long, long gone.
I mean this is a it's reallybecome a mainstream business you
know an industry.
It's a true industry.
I mean, what was there?
Like 2,000 people there.
Speaker 2 (01:47):
I think it was like yeah, I think it was like 1,800,
something like that, yeah.
Speaker 1 (01:51):
Yeah, and which is absolutely huge.
You know, maybe Thriller Festgets that many people, but a lot
of the traditional conferencesare much smaller than that.
And then just the vendors thatwere there were pretty
impressive, like big companiesthat make you know that survive,
(02:14):
serving the indie authorcommunity Well and traditional.
But that was another thing too,that there were companies that
have traditionally servedtraditional publishing.
There was a lot of traditionalsin there but now they're
reaching into the indie authorcommunity and I like it was
(02:35):
pretty impressive.
Speaker 2 (02:36):
Yeah, yeah, actually.
So let's kind of walk throughit a little bit.
So the first day we got thereMonday morning and we did travel
together.
So when I say we, I literallymean we we got there Monday
morning.
And the first day on Monday itwas just an industry expo, which
I thought was, you know, reallykind of interesting.
(02:58):
It was a whole day.
Everybody had set up, you know,their tables, exhibition hall
style kind of event, and it wasa full packed ballroom, like it
was, and it was a big ballroomtoo, yeah, and it just
completely filled with tables,and so everybody from Plotter
was there to audiobookpublishers like Dreamscape and
(03:23):
Tantor Draft, to digital wasthere, yeah, amazon, amazon was
there.
Amazon had a huge presence.
Speaker 1 (03:31):
Yes, they really did, and they ran all kinds of
workshops which, I'm sorry tosay, I was going to go to some,
but I didn't make it becausethere was just so many workshops
to choose from.
Speaker 2 (03:43):
Yeah, yeah, but and then all sorts of other new
tools and technologies andservice providers.
You know people offering adshelp or book marketing help, or
you know all sorts of differentthings.
So there's a whole industry nowaround the indie author
industry which is kind of thislike mind blowing kind of a
(04:05):
thing.
I mean I have gone to thisconference before, but it was
before COVID, so it's been aboutyou know four or five years
since I've gone, and when I wentthey did not have the industry
expo thing at all, it was justthe author events.
And so it's definitely evenjust in the last five years it
(04:25):
has definitely expanded andmatured and turned into a much
bigger, more impressive and, Iwould argue, more beneficial
event even than it was fiveyears ago.
Speaker 1 (04:39):
Well, I can't speak to what it was five years ago,
but I can say that it was verybeneficial for anybody who is
really thinking about makingwriting and publishing an actual
career versus a hobby.
Even for hobbyists I think itwould be fun, but I think just
(05:01):
because it'll just blow you awayall the toys out there to play
with.
Speaker 2 (05:05):
You know, it's just a lot of stuff out there which is
really fun.
Well, that's actually one ofthe things that I found so
interesting, though, is thatthere were a lot of people there
, obviously, who were making sixfigures from their fiction, or
wanted to be making six figuresfrom their fiction, but there
were also a lot of diversity inthe kinds of authors that were
(05:30):
there and the strategies thatthey were actually using to get
their books out there.
So I'm not sure.
I actually think it's aconference for writers now and
writers who want to reachreaders.
So, whether or not that's afull time income, day job kind
of a thing, or whether that'smore of a hobbyist but hey, I'd
(05:51):
like to sell and have asupplemental income, kind of a
thing or just reach readers, Ithink all of those goal sets are
served and becoming maybe nottalked about yet, but there's an
awareness that I think isgrowing around that diversity of
strategy, diversity of goals,diversity of author
(06:13):
personalities and skill sets andall of that stuff which, of
course, I harp on all the time.
Speaker 1 (06:18):
Yeah, well, we harp together.
I also thought it wasinteresting.
You know, there's this, thisidea that the only people who
make money writing andpublishing their own bugs, the
only Indian authors who makemoney are romance.
Well, hello, that is not true.
There are people from everysingle genre, including
(06:40):
nonfiction writers there, yeah,and that are that are making an
income, making a living fromtheir books.
And that is really encouragingtoo, because sometimes sitting
at home and just looking at theinternet and this, and that we
kind of get the woes me, doomand gloom.
Publishing is dying.
People don't read anymore.
(07:01):
You know, everybody's watchingNetflix.
They're not going to read yourbooks, blah, blah, blah, blah,
blah.
Well, hello, I don't thinkthat's true.
Speaker 2 (07:11):
Yeah, I don't.
I don't think it is.
I think a lot of that thatNetflix binge mentality.
It does negatively impact thetraditional industry that
traditionally published authorsand books, because unless you
already have a massive backlist,you know your readers can't
binge if you're only publishingonce a year which is you know, a
(07:32):
drop out for people like me.
Speaker 1 (07:35):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (07:37):
I mean, I think, that's whatever.
Speaker 1 (07:38):
They can binge your books in like 10 years.
Speaker 2 (07:43):
I'm building that back.
You're building the binge, butbut I do think that I mean, I
think that's the, the authorsthat are doing very, very well
purely on fiction, purelyfinancially.
I can't speak to their, youknow author sustainability or
all of that other stuff, not thephysical health, any of that
(08:05):
but the ones that are doing verywell are the ones that have
bingeable series or they havebingeable backlists.
You know you do get.
You do get some that knock itout of the park with their debut
and and just kill it and that'samazing.
But on the whole, on theaverage, if that's what you're
(08:28):
looking for, you got to work onbuilding that backlist.
Speaker 1 (08:31):
That was definitely a takeaway For me.
Before I talk about that wassomething else I wanted to
mention, because we can get intothat a little bit, a little bit
more a bit.
But there's a bigger differencebetween going to traditional
conferences versus this indieauthor my first indie author
conference, as you, as you,mentioned.
(08:53):
There used to be this thoughtand it's still out there a
little bit in traditionalpublishing that if you publish
indie then you will never betaken seriously by the
traditional publishing world,like you're just ruining your
chances for ever getting atraditional deal.
(09:15):
Well, that was blown out of thewater.
This was it two weeks ago.
Now I lost a week because Icame home with COVID, yeah, so
that was just wrong.
I mean, there were a couple oftraditional publishers small,
granted smaller publishers, butstill there were a couple of
(09:36):
traditional publishers there I'dsay at least three that were
looking to pick up in theauthors.
There was also the traditionalextra kind of things like
audiobook.
Yeah, there was severalaudiobook companies that like
Tantor, the one that I'm goingto be working with.
(09:57):
They also work with bigpublishing houses and big
traditional.
So they that that's, butthey're working with both.
Yeah, and that that is my, youknow.
My point is that this idea thatsomehow you've shamed yourself
if you indie publishing, youknow and cheapened yourself and
(10:20):
that traditional publishers arenever going to look at you is
not true.
We watched and we won't mentionnames, but we watched a woman
who is very successful indiepublished author and verbally
negotiate a contract with a trad, a trad publishing company,
(10:40):
right in front of our littlefaces.
Speaker 2 (10:42):
Yeah, it was.
It was crazy and there weremultiple similar stories like
that of other authors at theconference who you know publish.
Indie did well and we're either, you know, pitching new series
to publishers, getting interestor even signing contracts for a
new series, or even, you know,republishing old series.
But I think that's kind of whatI don't know like.
My point is that you know, youknow you're not going to be able
(11:02):
to do that.
Yeah, I think that's what I'mgoing to be doing.
Yeah, I think that's what I'mgoing to be doing.
Yeah, I think that's what I'mgoing to be doing.
Big, broad, vague impression isthat this industry is maturing.
With that maturity is coming,actually, for once, less black
and white thinking and there isbecoming more options and more
(11:24):
variability and how people findsuccess, how they define success
and that hybrid mentality thatI'm going to choose the best
path for what I'm trying to dowith this thing and then take
that thing, whatever that IP isat, intellectual property and
expand it into new avenues,whether that's audio books or
(11:47):
whether that's film One of ourgood friends which we're hoping
to have on the show next year,jonathan.
He has done very well witheBooks and traditional fiction,
not traditional published, butindie published fiction.
He's done very well, built ahuge audience and now he's
(12:07):
getting into film and he's indie, producing his own films and
his own web serials and thingslike that.
It's amazing.
He didn't wait for permission,he just went for it.
Speaker 1 (12:21):
Interestingly enough on that that once he started
putting some of that up onYouTube.
Now he has an entertainmentlawyer who wants to work with
him.
Now he has a traditional agentwho's pitching his work to Big 5
because they want it to be outin book form to build an
audience and they're shoppingaround a contract for TV series
(12:47):
and things like that.
So I mean he's taken his indiestuff and he's mainstreaming it.
Speaker 2 (12:53):
Yeah, it's such a mindset shift to say you're an
author instead of just sayingI'm a writer, therefore I'm
going to write a novel,therefore I'm going to publish
said novel, the end.
Now there's this wholedifferent, shifting mindset
where people are like, well,yeah, but I can also do this and
(13:13):
I can also do that.
No, for marketing, I'm going totry this and I'm going to try
that.
Maybe one thing works and theother doesn't, or because of the
way I work, my skill sets, Ican follow this path.
Whatever it is, but it'sthinking beyond just the novel,
which is amazing to me.
It's just amazing.
Speaker 1 (13:32):
I went to several workshops on foreign rights
because that's something thatreally interests me too.
My big takeaway from that ispitch a publisher.
I don't want to do it myself,but there are people doing it
themselves and doing really,really well.
Yeah, there is an industrybuilt up around that ways to do
(13:55):
it people who will help you,translators, all the things.
So it's just fascinating whatpeople are doing, yeah.
Speaker 2 (14:05):
And I want to touch on one other thing here too is
that it is a highly competitivemarket now.
You can't just throw a book upon Kindle and expect to succeed,
and expect to knock it out ofthe park and make a million
dollars like the early days.
That just doesn't work anymore.
Speaker 1 (14:22):
Right.
Speaker 2 (14:23):
So it is highly competitive to get eyeballs to
get, which.
That sounds awful, but it'skind of true to get visibility.
Speaker 1 (14:30):
It works for me.
I like the mortician series,like the horse I don't know if
you took that eyeball.
Speaker 2 (14:35):
I'm all right, all right.
So to get eyeballs on your work, you have to get visibility.
To get visibility, you need toknow your market.
You need to know your genre.
That market is going to dependon that genre and the subgenre
and your overall strategy.
You really have to think thisstuff through.
So it's very competitive.
But, especially at thisconference, I feel like and
(15:00):
maybe because of the foundingmentality and how they built the
conference over the years, Ithink correct me if I'm wrong
that this is very different thanthe traditional cons, but the
authors don't go there saying,trying to puff themselves up and
be better than the personsitting next to them.
(15:21):
It's not competitive betweenauthors in that same way.
Instead, it's actually therising tides metaphor and that
building of community and thathelping one another, teaching
one another, was really profoundand prevalent throughout the
(15:41):
conference.
I don't think I noticed anybodyreally trying to be better than
, or present themselves asbetter than, the person next to
them.
It was well, I have this skillset.
Let me teach you this thing andyou teach me something in
return, and we're all going towork together to make this
industry and these books better,which is so cool.
Speaker 1 (16:02):
Yeah, I totally think that that is true.
I do think that probablybecause this happened to me a
little bit here and there and itprobably did happen to others
that sometimes you just gotaround somebody who was super
successful and it wasn't them.
They were being lovely,whatever, but the feeling was,
(16:23):
oh my gosh, I can never do whatthey did, or that little bit of
awe.
Speaker 2 (16:27):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (16:29):
But I mean, that's every industry, isn't it?
And thank God there are peoplethat are doing that, because
that's our own perspective.
We can either look at them andgo, oh, I'll never do that, or
we can look at them and go, hey,they did it, it's possible.
Speaker 2 (16:43):
Therefore, maybe I can, and so but that was sort of
it the growth mindset versusscarcity mindset.
Speaker 1 (16:50):
Exactly and honestly.
It's true, a lot of the readersthat the indie community is
servicing, so to speak, are thewhale readers, are readers who
read a lot of books and, by andlarge, indie books are priced a
(17:11):
little bit better than theirtraditional counterparts.
So, other than the librarysystem, which a lot of people
who read, I read a lot oftraditional books through the
library system, but indie booksare priced more competitively.
So you just can't.
I don't care if you write abook a month, you still can't
(17:33):
write enough to service yourreaders, because some of those
readers read a book a day.
And no, there was one personthere that I talked to who
writes like a book a day.
Speaker 2 (17:47):
But he doesn't.
Speaker 1 (17:49):
I'm not all.
I'm going to say we don't wantthe hate mail here, guys,
because I wasn't excited aboutit.
But he is there.
He is using AI to write hisbooks and that's going to be an
interesting thing to see wherethat goes.
I cannot imagine that thosebooks are going to satisfy
(18:10):
readers, but who knows somethingto see?
Speaker 2 (18:15):
Yeah, it's definitely something to keep an eye on.
I don't want to go into thattangent of this discussion too
much right now, but AI ingeneral is something that we're
going to have to be cognizant of, aware of and figure out what
it means for the industry.
Speaker 1 (18:36):
Yeah, yeah, I think.
Anyway, yes, we'll save thatdiscussion for a day when we
have somebody who really knowswhat they're talking about and
we will interview them on that,because Megan and I do not, I
just that's.
all I'm going to say is that Idid have a conversation.
Well, actually I listened tosomeone who talked about that
(18:58):
and it was a little like oh mygoodness, this is happening.
Yeah, so moving right along.
Other than that, I do think youare 100 percent right.
There was just a really nicesense of community and people
willing to help one another andteach one another and cross
(19:19):
promote with one another.
I have some really fun plansfor cross promoting next year,
that when I get my little tissueand gear and get it going.
Speaker 2 (19:30):
Yeah Well, and I think the interesting thing as
well for me was I actuallydidn't go to a ton of the
courses.
I went to a few and they werevery informative and very
helpful, but the vast majorityof the courses or the actual
workshops or whatever, werebeing filmed, so if you bought
your ticket you could just watchthe recording later.
(19:51):
So for me this conference wasall about community.
It was all about thosenetworking opportunities and
hanging out with people in thelittle lounge salon area and
sharing ideas or having a drinkafterward and talking about what
they're doing that's workingreally well for them right now
(20:13):
and thinking for myself how isthat possible to incorporate, Is
it not?
Does it fit my strategy, Doesit not?
What am I trying to accomplish?
And kind of bouncing thoseideas around in a community of
very successful, very drivenauthors with really great ideas.
You don't get that at home.
(20:34):
You just don't Like even takingall the courses and all the
learning in the world which I'ma number one learner, I love to
learn you don't get that sameimpact as actually networking
and talking with these peopleone on one.
Speaker 1 (20:50):
Yeah, because everything's sort of theoretical
when you're learning it.
But when you actually aretalking to people who have done
this thing and are successfuldoing it, or they did this thing
and they weren't successfuldoing it, I mean, just those
conversations are really big,they're huge.
(21:10):
They give you.
It's a sorting out sort of athing which, honestly, I think
that this whole conferencereally did emphasize to me the
importance of our Clarify,Simplify, Implement sort of a
process that we are noodlingaround and trying to bring out
(21:31):
to you, the listeners, in a moreformal way so that people can
actually be guided through theseprocesses.
Yeah, I think it's critical.
Honestly, it's critical.
Speaker 2 (21:46):
That's why I came away and immediately started
working.
Well, I also was lucky enoughthat I did not get COVID,
because I had it in the summer.
I was lucky I got it early, Iguess, anyway.
But I immediately came awayinspired to start my new
(22:06):
sub-stack and start talkingabout these ideas and these
concepts and the filter, really,that our system provides,
because this Clarify, simplifyImplement.
It sounds easy, it soundssimple, but it's one of those
things you have to practice overand over and over.
I have so many thoughts and somany concepts and things I want
(22:29):
to share and ideas that came outof this conference that fit
within that structure.
If you haven't already, gocheck out my sub-stack.
Yes, it's called Clarify,simplify, implement.
There will be a link in theshow notes.
Speaker 1 (22:46):
I'm really glad that you're writing it because it's
going to help us as you clarifyyour thoughts.
It will help us simplify theway we want to present them to
people and then we can implementit.
It's just amazing, so I'm soglad you're doing that,
absolutely.
Speaker 2 (23:02):
I think it's going to be great.
I do, I really do.
I think it's going to be great.
I already put together my topiclist.
I have this spreadsheet thatI've got 25 or 30 posts already,
topic ideas not outlined,because I just sit down and
write.
Anyway, at least my idea isI've got 25 or 30 already in the
(23:24):
hopper ready to go.
This is going to take methrough at least the next few
months.
I can't write more than acouple of weeks, I don't think.
But we're going to get therebecause I do think it's
important.
I think, going back to yourpoint about being next to Jane
Doe, author who's doingsomething amazing and incredible
(23:45):
and being really, reallysuccessful and you look at that
guy, I could never do that.
I'm never going to besuccessful.
That's the wrong mindset,because that's the wrong goal.
I think using our system, usingthe Clarify, simplify,
implement structure, you canfigure that out.
There's so much room in thisindustry, in this job, for all
(24:06):
different kinds of authors, alldifferent kinds of strategies
and platforms.
I think that's as the industrycontinues to mature.
That's what's going to become.
More and more apparent is thatit's not a one-size-fits-all job
more so than any other well, Ican't speak to other creative
(24:28):
industries, but at least more sothan a corporate job.
It is not one-size-fits-all.
There is not a simple jobdescription that you can do
these tasks and you can get yournext promotion.
That's not the way it works.
Understanding that you are notperfect, sign 타고 filter to cut
through the overwhelm, to cutthrough those all brilliant,
(24:49):
wonderful ideas that might workfor Jane Doe but might not work
for you.
This is a filter to help youfigure out what those what will
work and what won't workhopefully so on.
Speaker 1 (25:01):
My final little personal takeaway from the
conference was something thatactually is that kind of thing
Like I got inspired in a uniqueway.
Well, I'll just tell you whatit is.
First, I drive my husband crazywith this like bill a big build
(25:21):
up to what I'm going to tellyou.
First I'm going to tell youabout what I'm going to tell you
, then I'm going to tell youAnyway don't bury the lead,
greta, just say it.
So very in the lead, I know it'sjust terrible.
So I heard a very, very, verysuccessful cozy mystery writer
say to think of your work as acatalog versus as just
(25:44):
individual titles or even asseries.
You know, and I loved that, itjust hit me like we.
For me, I felt like that's whatI want to do.
I want to create this immersiveworld that is interconnected.
So, whether it's the will soonbe repackaged seven deadly sin
(26:05):
series or it's my morticianseries or some spin off series
ideas that I have, that theyhave this interconnected world.
That was a sort of a claritymoment for me, that big takeaway
for me, and so much so thatwhen I finished the six book in
the mortician series, I actuallyhave a scene where I wrote in
(26:27):
the detective from the sevendeadly sin series she just
entered the thing.
It was like, oh my gosh, comeon in girlfriend.
Speaker 2 (26:34):
Join this.
Speaker 1 (26:36):
You're all in the same world.
This is great.
So that was a big takeaway forme, and I'm bringing it up
because you don't entirely agree, which is the wonderfulness of
this.
Speaker 2 (26:49):
Yeah Well, so I don't .
I mean I think it can work.
I think absolutely.
For some authors that is abeautiful and wonderful way
forward, but not allpersonalities, not all brains
work that way and sometimes yourcreative inspiration is going
to take you off into a newdirection.
(27:12):
And so I also feel like that,yes, that can work, but also it
can work to have separate series, but you still, I do think,
need a unifying theme.
We'll call it, and I don't meanthat like a traditional, like
book theme or literature in aliterary sense.
(27:33):
I mean it more as a careersense.
I mean this is why we have theSeven Days Declarity mini email
course which you can take forfree, link in the show notes.
But what that does is it givesyou that North Star, that
overarching theme for yourcareer, for your catalog.
Again, thinking of your bookslike a catalog.
(27:54):
I do like that concept, I justtake it a little bit more vague
rather than being interconnectedseries and spin-offs and
everybody should be doing this,because not everybody should but
I do think that having a theme,having a way to unify your
books for readers so that theyknow what they're going to get
(28:16):
from you as the author, as theperson who is bringing them this
experience.
And I do think to kind of endour little discussion here a
little bit, I think that's kindof.
The key is finding the way tobring readers an experience, and
they always should know whatthey're going to get.
And that's how you can use pennames to differentiate.
(28:36):
If you want to write in twocompletely different genres,
like if you're writing thrillerson one side and you're writing
sci-fi on another, then have twodifferent pen names, have two
different unique pieces ofyourself.
Unify each of those piecesunder a theme so that readers
know what they can get.
And then yeah, if it's spin-offs, great, that is a spectacular
(28:57):
strategy.
But if it's just theories thathave similar types of characters
, similar tropes, similarliterary themes or ties in the
genre, however, you can think ofthat catalog as being your
author presence to give readersan experience, I think that's
(29:19):
finding the way to make thatwork for you, is what's going to
ultimately hopefully bringsatisfaction and success for a
career-minded author.
Speaker 1 (29:30):
Yes well lots of caveats there, yeah okay, so,
but you all are going to hearthat word catalog from me a lot
in 2024, I think, because it wasjust like, yeah, brain blew up,
so anyway, that's my soundeffects.
Okay, so there was one morething that we were going to say
(29:55):
that this was actually the lastofficial 20 bucks Vegas
conference.
But it is being taken over newmanagement which you will hear
more from us as in 2024.
And it'll be called authornation and we are just excited
that I think it's going to havea facelift because that, as we
(30:16):
said, are in the beginning.
That this industry has really,really matured in the runaway
train is fabulous, but I couldsee it being a bit of a runaway
train and getting some newpeople with some new
perspectives and maybe a littlemore energy, a fresh energy, I
should say, to kind of corral.
(30:38):
The runaway train will probablybe really, really exciting.
Speaker 2 (30:42):
Yeah, the little bit that we know so far.
I am very excited to see whereit goes, where they take it and
how they change it for next year.
I mean, I know some people arereally worried about it, that
there's a lot of concern thatit's going to lose some of its
indie feel or that communityfeel.
(31:03):
But I do think that they'rethey're trying very hard not to
lose that but rather to takethat and expand it and be and
move it into the future.
Speaker 1 (31:14):
Yeah, I feel like organize it.
Yeah, even it's like, yeah, theindie feel is great, but but it
was a little overwhelming for aperson coming in their first
time, yeah, and I think if itwas a little bit better
organized in terms of tracks andyou know those kinds of things,
it will make it easier forpeople to navigate and new
(31:35):
people to navigate, yeah, andthat kind of thing.
Speaker 2 (31:38):
Yeah, I think so.
So I'm excited we will sharemore information as we have it
for the conference.
I think at this point I amdefinitely planning on at least
attending next year and we'llsee, if you know, we have other
opportunities.
We're hoping there might beother opportunities in a very
variety of areas to participate,but I am at least planning for
(32:01):
sure on being there.
Greta, I know you got covid.
Speaker 1 (32:06):
Well, I I love the idea, and especially if we have
some opportunities and they willdefinitely be there, and if I
am going back I'm going to bevexed all over the place.
I got a flu shot, so I didn'tget the flu and that was nice.
But I will get covid.
I'll get the flu shot, I'lltake my vitamins, I'll do juice
(32:28):
fast.
I'll do it all.
Yeah, that was just not fun tocome home.
Speaker 2 (32:33):
I felt like I got hit by a truck, so yeah quite a few
, quite a few people we know didend up with covid.
So it is important to take careof yourself, so keep that in
mind too.
Speaker 1 (32:41):
Yes, yes.
Speaker 2 (32:42):
But hopefully it'll all work out and we'll maybe see
y'all next next year.
Speaker 1 (32:48):
Yeah, so anyway, last word, I keep saying that and we
keep talking, which is sodifficult for us.
Anyway, as a result of theconference, we have met a lot of
amazing people like really,really cool people, and so, and
(33:08):
of course, we chatted them upwhenever we had the opportunity
and, consequently, we have someverbal promises from some
fabulous guests for you guysthat have told us they're coming
on the show in 2024.
So we're going to be actuallyscheduling them and when we have
(33:29):
them actually scheduled, we canstart announcing who.
Speaker 2 (33:33):
But it is going to be awesome, I am so, looking
forward to it, it is going to bea good year, very good year.
Speaker 1 (33:40):
Yeah, so if you have not subscribed, oh seriously,
people, what are you waiting for?
Just just just hit that littlebutton, that little follow
button, subscribe button, sothat you don't miss anybody
coming out, All these amazingpeople.
Speaker 2 (33:55):
And if you do like the show, please leave us a
review.
On whatever platform you pickup your podcasts from, we love
to see those, obviously, and itdoes help spread the word for,
hopefully, something that'sinformative and entertaining for
you to share it with otherwriters in the world.
Yes please, yeah.
And then one last thing for meto.
(34:17):
I mentioned it earlier and I'llmention it again, but I did
just start my brand new substack.
So if you want to hear more ofmy thoughts and it's pretty much
going to be me Greta's going tobe chipping in when she can,
but I am, I am running with thisone.
Speaker 1 (34:33):
I'm working on my catalog.
Speaker 2 (34:38):
So if you want to hear more of my thoughts on
writing publishing and ourclarify, simplify, implement
system, make sure you pop overthere and check it out.
I will put the link in the shownotes, along with the link to
our seven days to author clarityEmail mini course, which is
free when you sign up for ourlist.
(34:58):
So until next time, storiesrolling.
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