The New Era of Indie Authorship with Joe Solari

We're entering a new era for the indie author...

In the last few years we've once more seen seismic shifts in the self-publishing industry. 
No one understands that better than author consultant Joe Solari, who recently took the reins of what was once the 20Books to 50k conference. Rebranding under the Author Nation banner, Joe has been on the front lines, helping authors marry their artistic dreams with concrete business goals. 

In this interview, we dive deep into the history of 20Books, the changes that are coming with Author Nation, and how Joe hopes to grow regional support around the largest author conference in the country. 

Joe Solari is a consultant for authors and publishers, known for his experience in business ownership, private equity, and fundraising. He holds a BFA from the School of the Art Institute of Chicago and an MBA from the University of Chicago Booth School of Business. Since 2016, he has been helping authors navigate the complexities of the publishing market and has written guides for this purpose. He the Managing Director of the Author Nation Conference and Co-founder of Cybercraft Studios.

Joe Solari
Website:  https://www.authornation.live/2024tickets
Twitter: https://twitter.com/author_nation
Instagram: @author.nation
Facebook: @authornationevents
TikTok: @author.nation

The Author Wheel:
Website: www.AuthorWheel.com
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/AuthorWheel

Greta Boris:
Website: www.GretaBoris.com
Facebook: @GretaBorisAuthor
Instagram: @GretaBoris

Megan Haskell:
Website: www.MeganHaskell.com
Facebook & Instagram: @MeganHaskellAuthor
TikTok: @AuthorMeganHaskell

*****

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hi everyone and welcome to the Author Wheel
podcast.
I'm Greta Boras, usa Todaybestselling mystery thriller
author.

Speaker 2 (00:07):
And I'm Megan Haskell , award-winning fantasy
adventure author.
Together we are the AuthorWheel.
This week, we're excited tohave the Author Nation
showrunner, joe Solari, on thepodcast.
This was a deep dive into allthe new features that are coming
to the conference, formerlyknown as 20 Books to 50K, in
November in Vegas.
But even if you're not planningon attending, we had a great

(00:30):
conversation about the state ofthe indie author nation, so you
definitely want to tune in.
But before we get into that,how's your week been, greta?

Speaker 1 (00:38):
Well, it's been okay.
I'm fighting another stupidcold flu bug because I kissed a
toddler on the nose, which isNever a good idea.

Speaker 2 (00:49):
No.

Speaker 1 (00:50):
I know, I know it's what I've been saying.
No matter how cute the dangthing is, just don't kiss it you
can boop it.

Speaker 2 (00:59):
Boop it with a finger and then hand sanitize.

Speaker 1 (01:03):
That's what my daughter said.
She says, mom, just boop it andhe loves the whole boop thing.
Anyway, I digress.
You don't want to get me on mylittle that's me on her.
That's all I'll talk about.
So personal news To Die For.
The first book in the Morticianseries is coming out in audio

(01:25):
from Tantor Media this month.
The date they gave me was May28th.
I've seen the cover.
It looks great.
It's just a square version ofthe book cover, but it looks
great, and that's all I'vegotten from them at this point.
I think I'm supposed to get somemarketing materials and all
that, but I haven't seen it yetand I am still working away on

(01:47):
the Almost True Crime series.
I actually had a brainstorm acouple of weeks ago about
planting a mystery within thesemysteries, so I'll be doling out
, so it'll be within.
I'll be doling out the clues alittle bit at a time for the
full seven books and then at theend of them I'll write a
novella where my podcastcharacter, narrator character,

(02:10):
goes and solves the crime thathas been teased for all seven
books.
That sounds fun, I know.
So today, when we are donerecording that's, what I got to
do is start working.
I'm calling it Molly's Mysterybecause Molly Shore is my
podcast host.

Speaker 2 (02:29):
Instead of Polly Shore.
I like it.

Speaker 1 (02:32):
Thanks, well, and I spell Shore S-H-U-R-E like the
microphone company.
No, shore, microphones arereally good in singing.
Anyway, those were ourpreferred.
So yeah, she's Molly Shore.

Speaker 2 (02:47):
Yeah Well, I have to say, like hearing you talk about
how you've been rewriting andrevising, you've been able to
add in so much more detail ordepth to these books that you
couldn't have done, I don'tthink, without writing all seven
first and then going, you know,and then going back and like

(03:07):
like I feel like this is a veryinteresting case study that
we're really, really, really,really going to have to talk
about at some point, becauseit's it's unique in a lot of
ways.
I feel like I don't know, maybethat maybe somebody else has
done something similar, but asfar as like the puzzle within
the puzzle, over the course ofthe whole series and stuff, but
I feel like it just takes somuch extra planning and work and

(03:30):
reconstruction that it would behard.

Speaker 1 (03:33):
It would have overwhelmed me if I tried to do
it with first drafting.
Yeah, you know what I mean,it's like that.
But yeah, I think you know,maybe in the fall or something
like that, we're going to haveto tackle this.
Yeah, I think you know, maybein the fall or something like
that, we're going to have totackle this.

Speaker 2 (03:44):
Yeah, once they start coming out.

Speaker 1 (03:47):
Yeah, on a podcast, yeah because right now I don't,
I might say all the wrong thingsif I try to tell you what I do.
Because I keep changing it.
Yeah, yeah, anyway, what haveyou been up to this week?

Speaker 2 (03:58):
Well, so this week has been a little bit of a
coming down from my Kickstartercampaign.
A little bit of a coming downfrom my Kickstarter campaign.
I am thrilled to say that I didfund, which was amazing, but it
was at the very last minute,and thanks mostly to well, I
shouldn't say mostly, but thanksto an angel investor who made

(04:19):
up the final gap.

Speaker 1 (04:19):
That was really like I was already going into
mourning for you.
I'm so sorry to admit.

Speaker 2 (04:26):
No, I was too.
I was so sad, yeah, and it waswhat an emotional roller coaster
.
Oh my gosh.
No, it's like I was literallywriting the I'm so sorry, I
can't, I didn't make it work, wedidn't reach the goal, I can't
make this happen.
I was like close to tears, um,and like writing this out, and
then, all of a sudden, I got atext message from a friend and

(04:50):
actually a friend of the show,melissa Storm.
She was on a text to me and shewas like congratulations, you
funded.
And I was like what are youtalking about?
Like I did not.
I was still so far from thegoal, um, but uh, but no, sure
enough, an angel investor camein, made up the gap, got me over
that that finish line, and so Iwent from over a thousand
dollars, right?

Speaker 1 (05:11):
Yeah, yeah, give us the numbers, cause it's too.

Speaker 2 (05:16):
Okay, well, so yeah.
So I had managed to get upthrough like five minutes before
the end of the campaign.
It was at about, I think, 5,300funded and my goal was seven,
and Kickstarter is all ornothing.
So if you don't fund, you don'tget paid, that nobody gets

(05:39):
their book, you don't make thebook or you know the project or
whatever.
So, um, yeah, so she, my angelinvestor, came in and she, she
pledged eighteen hundred dollars.
Oh my what, oh, she's gettingevery book that I've ever
written, ever.

(05:59):
I think I'm gonna dedicate thespecial edition just to her,
like no.
I mean, I actually am puttingall the special edition
hardcover backers in theacknowledgements, so they will.
It will be dedicated to all ofthem, but I will give a special
shout out, if she'll let me, tomy angel investor.

Speaker 1 (06:18):
So I would yeah, it was a big deal A character after
her like a fancy, nicecharacter.
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (06:25):
Yeah, maybe I'll like write like one, like little
cameo or something.
I'm not sure.
I haven't figured that pieceout yet, but I definitely have
to do something extra specialfor her.

Speaker 1 (06:36):
It could be in another book, but just she's
obviously a super fan who willread everything you write.
So if you did it in a Lilithbook or something like that, I'm
sure she'd be thrilled.

Speaker 2 (06:46):
Yeah, maybe, maybe, yeah, so anyway.
So yeah, emotionalrollercoaster.
Obviously I went from neartears to like ecstatic in the
span of about two seconds flat.

Speaker 1 (06:55):
Um, it was like I was shocked.

Speaker 2 (06:57):
Like I was literal, literal shock, um, like couldn't
function for a while, butanyway, so yeah.
So this week I kind of I mean,I started to take care of some
of the detail work on that I did.
I've been putting together thatanthology with Rachel Renner,
so that's almost kind of sort offinished.

(07:18):
I mean, we got the stories.
The stories are all well.
I wrote one story new for that,so that's going to be
exclusively available in thispaperback, at least through.
You know, probably July, august.
It'll be exclusive to thispaperback.
But the rest were allpre-existing short stories, so

(07:39):
it was just a matter of, andthey'd all been edited
professionally and everything.
So it was just a matter of,like, putting it together into
the right format, getting acover and writing a book
description.
So we're like about 80, 80 to90% of the way done with putting
that together and then we'llget that printed up.

(07:59):
So anyway, so yeah, so that'swhen that, taking care of all
the little odds and ends and allof that.
So work, but less stressful.

Speaker 1 (08:09):
Thank God, I don't think your heart or your stomach
could take much more of that.
Yeah, yeah, that's one of thosestories though that looks like
it would be in a movie ortelevision show and everybody
would go yeah, that doesn'thappen in real life and it did,

(08:30):
it, did I, yeah, yeah, you know.

Speaker 2 (08:33):
So it just goes to show you know, push all the way
through to the end.
Uh, finish through the finishline.
It's the old you know.
Race um metaphor, or push allthe way through, yeah.

Speaker 1 (08:45):
I got there, so yep, good deal.

Speaker 2 (08:48):
All righty Well for this week's subscriber shout out
, we have thanks to Stanley BTrice.
Stanley writes science fictionand short stories, and you can
visit his website to check outhis novel High School Rocket
Science for Extraterrestrial UseOnly, and the link to that

(09:09):
website is in the show notes,but it's stanleybtricecom.
Thank you so much, stanley.
We truly appreciate yoursupport, and you, too, can have
a subscriber shout out bybecoming a subscriber and
supporting the show.
The link to that is also in theshow notes.
But for now, let's jump intothe interview with Joe Solari.
He is a consultant for authorsand publishers known for his

(09:32):
experience in business ownership, private equity and fundraising
.
He holds a BFA from the Schoolof the Art Institute of Chicago
and an MBA from the Universityof Chicago Booth School of
Business.
Since 2016, he's been helpingauthors navigate the
complexities of the publishingmarket and has written guides
for this purpose.
He's the managing director ofthe Author Nation Conference and

(09:56):
co-founder of CybercraftStudios.
So welcome, joe.
We are so excited to have youhere.

Speaker 3 (10:03):
Yes, I'm excited to be here.
Big deal, my first time on.

Speaker 2 (10:06):
Yeah, hopefully not your last.
This goes well.

Speaker 1 (10:12):
I feel like already, I'm feeling like we have so many
things to pick your brain about, absolutely yeah.

Speaker 2 (10:17):
But why don't we get started just real quick and why
don't you tell us a little bitmore about how you got into the
author industry?

Speaker 3 (10:26):
Sure, so I'll make it quick because you know it's not
that exciting a story.
How I got interested in thiswhole thing was my wife's
nonfiction author.
She started writing back in2014.
And if you remember those daysof Create Space and formatting
and all the joys of early, I gotpulled in as the technologist.

(10:48):
And when I got real interestedis when I realized she made
about $4,000 on a book aboutt-shirt and jeans style.

Speaker 1 (10:58):
Oh wow, in those days .
Yeah, remember those days.
Yeah, those were good.

Speaker 2 (11:03):
Yeah, yeah, those are good.

Speaker 3 (11:04):
Yeah, so at the time I was running a startup business
in the oil and gas industry.
I was doing a bunch of stuff.
When I got done with that, whenthat business sold, I decided,
well, if she could make thatkind of money writing a book, I
would write a business.
And that book, you know, therewas at least 20 people that

(11:24):
bought it and they happened tobe the folks that were in the 20
Books group and I think itresonated with folks that were
kind of thinking of.
They were creatives that werethinking about this as a
business and I got pulled intothat group to help on the
business side.

(11:46):
And really the seminal momentwas the first 20 Books
conference.
I was asked to speak.
Craig didn't have any idea whatwe were going to be talking
about.
Just like I need people comespeak.
We've never done this beforeand I showed up there not really
knowing what to expect, notliking to go to Vegas a lot
because I'd spent a lot of timethere in the day and recognize

(12:07):
the situation of, like holy cow.
There's people that are at thisconference that are going to
come away from this whole what Icall the golden age of content
creation with like generationbuilding.
Well, I just could see that allthe things were in place, that
people there were going to bebuilding these great brands

(12:29):
around their imagination, and Iwanted to have some part of that
.
So what I did is I called up anold partner of mine, lisa.
We had worked in this otherbusiness and I said I'm meeting
a lot of people here that aremaking some really good money
writing books and they don'thave any kind of business
support at all Like some ofthese people are.

(12:50):
They don't even have companiesset up.
I'm like I think there's anopportunity for us to help them.
She was like well, sure, let'stry it.
So, like I walked away fromthat conference with customers
that we were going to help, andso I built.
Initially I built this businessall around the idea of helping
authors with their businesspractices to to really achieve

(13:12):
the life that they want to live,and so that's really my foray
into this.
Along the way, I've alwaysstayed involved with the
community in a big way and veryclose to the, to Craig and the
group, and when he and Michaeldetermined that they were going
to kind of wrap up the show andthink about how they were going
to do that he talked to me andthat took the whole time when we

(13:35):
talk about all the backstoryand that.
But the windup is that I agreedto take over the financial
piece of that the contracts thathe had signed so that the show
could carry on.
His ability to keep going withthe contracts that he had signed
so that the show could carry onHis ability to keep going with
the stresses that it was doingon him personally was not really
good.
It was affecting his healthseverely.
Now that I took it on, Iunderstand the stresses that he

(13:59):
had running the show that season.
That's a really quick synopsisof how we're at this point, like
how I'm in the industry andlike why would I be the guy that
would be dealing with this newconference?

Speaker 1 (14:13):
Well, I have to say, I think it's just really
brilliant to have somebody whois not a fiction author but
somebody who has a businessbackground, who can kind of step
back and look at the bigpicture.
And look at, because I listenedto you for the first time a
number of years ago I think itwas on Anchors Con or something
and I, you know, I'm like yourtypical, I'm a musician, I'm a

(14:37):
writer, and you were talkingabout, like actually having
spreadsheets and keeping trackof things.
I was like, oh, you're supposedto do that.
I'm like that person.
I was just like I thought youwere brilliant.
I was like this is really newstuff for me.
And so I do think havingsomebody move into the author

(14:58):
space who's like kind of wait aminute, you guys, this is a
business or could be a business,and this is what you do, and
this is how you move, and thinkthat way and have that kind of
philosophy, I mean I think weneed you is what I'm saying At
least I do.

Speaker 3 (15:10):
Well, you know, when you read my little thing at the
beginning there, it's like mybachelor in fine arts is from an
art school and then I go to abusiness school that is like one
of the nerdiest quantitativeplaces.
All the stuff that I've it's,you know, sitting where I'm at
today.
You know I'm really a bigbeliever in there's like a plan
and like if you get aligned withthe universe, things work out

(15:32):
how they're supposed to.
And like what I'm doing todaydid not exist.
What you're doing today did notexist when I was making
decisions about what schools togo to and what I was going to do
.
But now, you know, maybe this isall me reframing it when I
retell myself the story, butit's like this all lines up to
how I can be really helpful inthis unique space that exists
now, where people are takingthose daydreams that their

(15:57):
teacher used to yell at themabout when they were looking out
the window in class, that likewe can turn those things into
cold hard cash, right, isn'tthat fun?
Yeah, and then if I can get youto start understanding that, um,
like 90 of the business stuffis just tools and techniques,
that really, when you startapplying your creativity to your

(16:19):
business when you start usingyour imagination, that it on on
it opens up a new world ofthings that you can apply your
creativity to right, and Ireally believe, as we're going
to talk through today, a lot ofthis stuff that is going to
drive the most successfulbusinesses of the future are
going to be around how authorsare thinking about their

(16:41):
business in a very different way, but they already be thinking
about it as a business.
Different way, but they alreadybe thinking about it as a
business.

Speaker 2 (16:46):
So so one of the questions we usually ask are you
know what are the road blocksthat you have in your own career
, that you see with the authorsthat you work with?
But I'm actually a little bitcurious, kind of more, in how
are you currently seeing thechanges in the industry?
Because, as you mentioned, youknow we talk about the good old
days, the golden age of indiepublishing, when you could just,

(17:08):
you know, put out a book on howdo you style jeans and a
t-shirt and make $4,000 in amonth, but you know.
so, going from that now to aspace where I think a lot of
authors are struggling, what arethe changes that you're seeing
in the industry over time, andwhere do you see that kind of

(17:28):
moving?

Speaker 3 (17:30):
Sure, sure.
So I think there's two, twokind of tracks we can go on this
.
I think the first one to talkabout is kind of personal,
philosophical stuff, and thenwe'll talk about, like, the
industry as a whole.
So when I, when, when I workwith authors that are that are
doing real well, a lot of timeswhat then they come to me is
they've grown the business andcrossed a lot of these

(17:52):
milestones that we all think arebig deals and, in our minds,
are going to solve all ourproblems.
Like if I just made this much,if I just made a hundred
thousand dollars, everythingwould be fine.
Just make a million bucks.
It's like, and they're not like.
They're like this is worse.
And it's like, oh well, likewhat?
What do you like?
You know I got a staff and youknow I retired my husband, and
like now I'm I'm waking up inthe middle of the night because
I got all this financial stress,and it's like, oh well, what if

(18:15):
we stopped and and decided thatthe business's sole purpose was
to to support the life that youwant to have?
Let's not talk about money orwhat do you think is important
in the industry?
Like, what do you want?
And a lot of times it's prettyI don't want to say meager, but
it's just like it's morereasonable.
Yeah, right, it's like, oh, wecan do all that on a lot less

(18:36):
money and you'll be happy.
Yeah, okay, well, let's buildthe business to do that, support
that.
And you know, you find when youdo those kinds of things that
you become more creative and youhave more you know, more time
to fill your well and all thatstuff that's important, versus
kind of a thought process that'sendemic in a lot of the

(19:00):
industry.
It's like, well, I'm going togo to a show or I'm going to
take a course and I'm going tolearn this system and I have the
expectations it's going to giveme X result.
I don't even know if I want Xresult, but people say this is
what I need to do.
So that big side, like part ofthis, is like stopping and
saying I'm going to reallyconsider what's right for me.

(19:21):
And the other part of this isthat we're you know, the
industry is not the sameindustry when I came into and I
think, if you've listened to anyof the Author Nation podcast
stuff that we've done, there's asometimes contentious
conversation around what's tocome and what's it supposed to
look like?
And when we decided on the showchange, it was like I have a

(19:48):
real hard, hard time with theidea that making this thing all
about money, because I've seen alot of people with different
types of success and we getwrapped around the axle of our
own messaging.
It's like this is what this isonly.
There's only this version ofsuccess and it is piles of money
falling in on you with booksthat you sell and it's like,
well, no, there's people thatare semi-retired, that are

(20:12):
caring for aging parents, thatneed to have a support network
for people, that are doing thatkind of stuff and write two or
three books a year and maybethey're making money, maybe
they're breaking even, maybethey're not, but it's something
that they need to do.

Speaker 1 (20:26):
Like almost for their mental health.

Speaker 3 (20:28):
Right, right.
It's like I'm sick of changingmy dad's diaper.
I go and I write a book.
It makes me like get my life inorder.
It doesn't matter whether theymake money or not.
But if we're like, have thisphilosophy, that oh well, that's
bad.
If you're not like, it's nothelpful, right, Because it means
you're taking money fromsomewhere else to do this thing.

(20:49):
And so we're hopefully, as theshow, as we talk about the show,
you'll see how we're trying tohelp people address those issues
.
But I think the bigger thingabout this whole thing is is to
say let's stop as a communityand say we're going to be sane,
and we're going to be sane andwe're going to say what's your
best life through writing.
And if you say it's somethingthat I'm going to say, you know

(21:11):
what?
That's not my idea, but I knowsomebody that might be able to
help you, Right, yeah?

Speaker 2 (21:16):
yeah.

Speaker 1 (21:16):
I'm not going to judge, I'm just going to see,
like okay that's not how I woulddo it, but I know some people
that do it that way.
Let's get you with those people.
Does that make sense?
Yes, totally, and I think youknow, because the independent
publishing space is fairly newin the grand scheme of things,

(21:37):
and when people first started Ilike because my dad was in
publishing I come from like abackground of this it never
occurred to me to independentlypublish, you know fiction,
because that just wasn't a realbook and that wasn't that long
ago.
That that's how people thought.

Speaker 3 (21:53):
There's still people that think that way.

Speaker 1 (21:55):
Right, yes, there is.
And success then, like backthen, success was having
somebody agree that your bookwas good enough to publish, and
so an agent in a publishinghouse.
That meant you had arrived.
Whether you made money or not,you had arrived because somebody
agreed.
Once we got into the indiespace, like how do we know?

(22:17):
How do we know if we'resuccessful?
I think it then became allabout money, which, as you said,
can progress into insanitybecause the goalposts just keeps
moving.
You hear about somebody whomade $10,000 more than you did
and all of a sudden, their booksmust be better than mine.
It becomes this ego-driventhing that I think we have to

(22:39):
stop, because it's just going toburn everybody out.

Speaker 2 (22:44):
And it seems like it's simultaneously a little bit
of a class system where you getthe authors that are making the
big bucks, but then you havepeople who have those lifestyle
challenges or whatever, thatkind of I don't wanna say get in
the way, but that modify theirabilities, and so there becomes

(23:07):
this sort of class system andthis immediate judgment based on
a financial metric, when it hasnothing to do with the quality
of the books, it has nothing todo with the lifestyle or the
goals of that person, or theirmotivations or their internal
drivers, and all of these thingstoo, which I think are so
important to the creativeprofessional.
I mean, we can't create ifyou're completely misaligned on

(23:30):
your personal drivers andmotivations and goals and all of
those things.
So I do, I think this, thisconversation has been happening
and I'm I'm enjoying it or I'mappreciating the, the complexity
, but the diversity of theseexperiences and positions as
well.
So I think that's I'm glad thatAuthorNation seems to be moving

(23:54):
in that direction, which, Iguess, then takes us to the next
question, which is what is the,what is AuthorNation and where
are we going?

Speaker 3 (24:04):
Yeah.
So I took the contracts, thefinancial obligation that Craig
Martel had with the hotel.
I took over that.
He had signed a contract forthree years and essentially what
we did is we said we're goingto use those contracts to create
a show.
That is kind of what I think weneed to do right now and there

(24:28):
was a lot of changes.
It's not just the name.
We brought in a big team sothat we could get a lot more
voices in on this.
So there's a programmingcommittee that has I think about
12 or 13 people on it right nowand it's like, why do you need
so many people?
It's because we're trying toget voices from all the other

(24:49):
author communities that somedidn't even know about author or
20 books.
Some weren't really alignedwith that philosophy.
But the idea of trying to bringit together where we could get
those people that are expertsand say going wide to come and
talk, or people that are goodwith other types of things like

(25:11):
live shows, coming and talking,so bringing in like actual
content.
The other thing is this idea ofus I'll pose this as kind of a
question Like does anybody wantthe industry to stay just like
it is now?
Not me Like, change is scaryand change is like I don't know

(25:33):
what's gonna happen.
It's like what, if the optionwas, I could flick a switch and
it stayed exactly like this therest of our lifetimes.
Like, to me, that's a muchhorrible outcome to be stuck in
that world.
Yeah, so it's going to change.
So how can I facilitate thatchange?
How can we, as a community, howcan I build that system?

(25:54):
How can we together,collectively, start to influence
this?
Right, because this whole thingis a big, complex,
self-organizing system whichmeans like, oh, it's hard to
organize unless you try to do itin certain ways.
Right, and if, as a community,authors start to organize in a

(26:15):
way, to, to, to reallycollaborate in a good way, and
then they influence their, theirreadership, and that readership
has a place, their readership,and that readership has a place
and that's another part of whatwe're doing with Author Nation,
with Rave, is figuring out howto create a reader community
Then we have a way to make surethat this thing is cool and fun
and we're no longer gettingtrapped as sharecroppers on

(26:40):
other people's platforms.
And that's kind of my biggerpicture on this and I think like
it's the promised land that wehave to go build Like.
It's not like, oh, it's just,we just need to go over there.
It's like no, we have to gothere and turn it into our
promised land.

Speaker 1 (26:56):
So let me.
But there may be listeners whohave never heard of 20 bucks,
which is bizarre to me, butthere are.
I mean, I was just talking to agroup of author friends the
other day.
I said something about 20 bucksand they're like what's that?
I'm like really.
Anyway, so if you would tellour listeners the philosophy of

(27:19):
20 bucks, how that kind of gotoff the ground, and then you
know, however you want toaddress this, but maybe what you
are now doing differently,where's the pivot point?
Into AuthorNation, how isAuthorNation going to be
different?

Speaker 3 (27:36):
Sure, yeah.
So 2017 was the first 20 BooksVegas conference.
Before that, there was aFacebook group that had formed
around Michael Landerly and agroup of authors around his idea
.
He had come up with this idea,if he could, and it was just
kind of like his goal.
Like it wasn't like a manifesto, it was just this thing like

(27:59):
hey, if I wrote 20 books andthey made this much per day, I'd
get to 50K and that would belike this retirement strategy he
had right, which is reallyinteresting when you think about
what we were talking about.
So initially it was just like,hey, I just want to make some
side money so I can go hang outand fish.
Yeah, good goal.
He got into this and like hesaw this big opportunity.

(28:21):
Now he's running a multimilliondollar publishing business,
right, so like, yeah, two reallyimportant messages there.
Right, it's like hey, this wasfounded on something very
different than what it kind ofcoalesced around.
And two, along the way, peoplechange their minds on what they
want, and that's okay too, right, yeah.
So like, look at all themessages.

(28:44):
That conference became a way tokind of get the people that were
in that group together and theynever thought it was going to
turn into what it did.
But you know, when I was atthat very first one, I'd never
experienced anything like that,where people kind of came
together and were helping eachother to figure things out.
They were sharing ways to dothings, they were talking about

(29:04):
different methodologies and,because of Craig's background as
a business consultant, hebrought people like me in to be
very focused on, like, this is abusiness, right, and I think
that's for an author thinking ohwell, I just want to write and
if I can make some money, that'sawesome.
It's like okay, let me reframeit to you in a different way.
You're choosing to go into avery saturated market with a

(29:28):
startup business with anunproven product.
That's a startup, indie author,right.
And I can tell you a wholelitany of things.
It doesn't matter what thebusiness is.
If you're deciding to go into amature market with no proven
product and you've never donethis before I can give you a
whole list of things that youshould probably get right or

(29:51):
prepare for so that you don'tfail before you even get a
chance to be successful, becausemost businesses fail because
they run out of money, right?
So what would we do to do that?
So that was kind of that wasreally different messaging at an

(30:27):
author conference Guys like metalking and other folks that
were there talking aboutprotecting your intellectual
property.
That grew to be last year 1800people live and 680 people
virtual the biggest authorconference, in both cases by far
.
Um, and as we discussed earlier,craig and michael decided to
exit out of that I've taken itover and it was an agreement
that the, the branding wasn'tgoing to continue and that was a
mutual thing because I I feltit was really important and you
know maybe I'm reading too muchmeaning into it.

(30:49):
But, like when we're talkingabout all the stuff that's
changing, the fact that thisreally important show that has
helped so many people besuccessful is now going through
its own transformation, I thinkis kind of metaphorical for the
industry.
So I hope that you know whatwe're executing will deliver on.
Here's a place where you cancome and we can ask hard

(31:12):
questions.
We can be adults about talkingabout through those, because
we're not all going to agree onwhat those ideas are Now getting
into kind of specifics of likewhat we're really changing.
That's going to be obvious forsomebody that hasn't been or has
been to the show.
We're looking at three specifictracks across seven domains of

(31:36):
knowledge.
So a pre-published explorer issomebody that hasn't ever
written a book.
They want to.
They may have gotten it written, but they're coming there to
kind of figure it all out.
Our idea is to help thosepeople answer those last
questions they need so they cango home and press publish.
Then we have this next groupand this is all based on the

(32:00):
statistics of the show over theyears.
We did.
All this analysis Is the youknow, the folks that are
published but aren't necessarilyprofitable yet and helping them
to look across those domains ofcraft and marketing and
figuring out what it is thatthey need to focus their
attention on to get toprofitability and understand

(32:20):
that sometimes it's justpatience and time right.
That's the thing that's notreally been talked about at the
previous show.
It's like sometimes we allforget that the overnight
success took seven years Rightand to have the time to find

(32:40):
your voice and to find youraudience right.
So one of the guys we're goingto have speaking is a guy named
Joe Pulizzi Comes completely outof the industry.
He's coming to speak.
He wrote a book, content Inc.
He's been doing contentmarketing for 24 years and he
has developed content marketingstrategies for all these

(33:03):
different industries John Deere,doctors, all kinds of stuff and
one of those big points is likeit takes 18 to 24 months to
develop an audience in onesingle medium, so like if he was
going into, say, an emailmarketing thing or a magazine.
Where else do you hear that?
Like you just think, well, Isuck.
I put out a book and nothinghappens.

(33:24):
Like what?

Speaker 2 (33:25):
or, or I think almost worse is well, I gotta do
everything perfectly all thetime, across all the different
streams, in order to besuccessful.
And when that doesn't happen inthree months or six months and
that's you're being patient thenyou know right, right, right
and then I obviously failed.

Speaker 3 (33:45):
Yeah, and so we'll have people talking about that
and saying like, oh, we can getthis knowledge from other places
to understand.
That's great Things that arefor somebody like him really
obvious.
Like well, you, just it justtakes this long.
And that's when you focus allyour energy like a laser into
one channel To your point.
You know, if you spread itacross five channels, they're

(34:08):
all like just creeping up versuslike cracking that one audience
.
Yeah.
So yeah, that's the.
I think I answered yourquestion.

Speaker 1 (34:17):
You did, you did, yeah.
And then there was a thirdtrack which you did not mention
yet.

Speaker 3 (34:22):
So then we have our third track, which is folks that
are profitable and they're justkind of trying to figure out
what's next, and I think thisgets to kind of this bigger
theme is that a lot of times weused to come to these shows and
it would be well.
What do I do?
Like, what's the new bestpractices?
So show me how I knew to run myFacebook ads, or show me this,

(34:44):
and I think the industry'smature to the point is that
anything like those types ofthings that you learn their
efficacy drops off really quick,because as they're shared and
everyone does that, then itbecomes the new me right.
Like so we've seen that happena gazillion times.
That's not going to stop.
We've seen that happen agazillion times.

(35:05):
That's not going to stop.
What I hope we start doing andthis is stuff that we've talked
about and you guys were talkingabout with Kevin Tumlinson on
previous episodes it's like whatis it that you're trying to do
with your intellectual propertyand your audience?
Like?
These are our two guidingprinciples you need to have
intellectual property thatpeople want right, and you need

(35:26):
to have an audience that'sprepared to buy that right, and
you need to own both of thosethings.
If you're renting them, thenyou don't have a business, right
?
So, just like we rent ouraudience from some platforms,
they rent their content from us.
So don't ever forget thatYou've got power in this

(35:47):
relationship.
But my point is is that, witheverything that's going to
change, right, like, the way Ithink about this is, with how
this phase of what we're goingin, with just general industry
turmoil, whatever we're going togo a seismic shift with
technology, with AI and I'm notjust talking about books, it's

(36:09):
just like it's going to make,it's going to change the world.
And for those of us not you,because you guys are much
younger than me, but, like forthose of us that went through
something like the internet,like, saw that, like, if you
went back to 1990 and you lookedat who you thought was going to
win that game and what thatgame was going to look, like

(36:30):
you'd have missed the boat.
You're going to be completelydifferent.
So let's not worry about that.
Let's not worry about howthat's going to turn out, let's
just worry about as this stuffall happens.
We're focused on those twothings Awesome content, audience
as close as humanly possible tome, right?
Because then what can I do withthat.
Well, when some dude in hisgarage uses AI to invent some

(36:51):
entirely new medium forstorytelling that no one ever
thought of, which will probablyhappen, we can go pile into that
with our audience and our IPand make money Right.
So I'm really excited aboutwhere this goes.
I'm not saying it's gonna beeasy, not gonna say we're not
gonna make mistakes, but if weget the big trend right on this
and we stay focused on somethinglike oh what, you're not really

(37:16):
.

Speaker 2 (37:16):
You're not really a writer, hate to break it to you,
you're in the experience,selling business okay yeah, I I
think that I love that the, theyou know best content you can
possibly create, or the beststory, the best work, and
combining that with finding youraudience and keeping them close
.
I that that my mind's blownbecause that is so key, and I

(37:41):
think that's where a lot of usare sort of struggling through
this transition right now,because historically, you know,
yeah, you just put your book upon Amazon or Kobo or wherever
you sell it, right, you go tothese other platforms and you
sell your book and the gapbetween you and your audience
was pretty far and I don't knowfor me personally, I've come to

(38:04):
realize that I want that closerrelationship.
I want to give readers more ofan experience.
I want to hear from them aswell.
So, how do you incorporate?
That, I think, is such a goodquestion for authors going
forward what kind of?
Where are you in the stack?
What formats or mediums orplaces do you enjoy?

(38:26):
How do you find your readersthere and then keep them close?
I really, really like thatconcept because I think that is
the AI proof model in a way,because it's about you and it's
about the experience and notabout necessarily just the words

(38:47):
on the page.

Speaker 3 (38:48):
Yeah, you know, I think that we can get really
distracted by some of thebugaboos that are out there.
I'm not saying they're not trueand they're not a possibility.
I just think that when youstart to think about how, what
again?
This gets back to how we canmanage this whole thing, right,

(39:09):
so how, how am I using the showto do that?
Well, if we're going to havecontent to talk about this stuff
, we're going to have theseconversations and we're going to
have innovation.
Right, this, the stuff that youguys are going to be what sets
you on that path?
Right, that makes you decide.

(39:29):
You know what.
I was really afraid of doingthis live show thing, but I
decided I'm going to double downand do live shows, because this
is one of the crazy things.
If we went back just two orthree years and you went to a
lot of romance writers and yousaid, well, what's your big
problem?
My readers, they're justreading Kindle and they're

(39:51):
getting older, they're all dying, so they would never think that
there's going to be an audienceof young romance readers coming
in who want to buy physicalproducts, right, you see what's
going on with a lot of thesebook shows where people are
coming and buying hundreds ofdollars worth of books and
getting them signed, and they'rebuying special editions.

(40:11):
It's like, oh, here we go, likethis isn't just about the
reading experience, like a lotof those books they're never
going to read, they don't evenwant to crack this, they're just
going to like fawn over it andput it on the shelf.
That's the experience, right,that becomes part of something.
You know I was talking withJohnny Truant and Kevin about

(40:32):
this is this whole idea of, like, ownership of the brand, like
people identify themselves withyour brand.
Their construct of how theythink about themselves is
determined by the clothes theywear and the car they drive and
the phone that they carry, booksthey read and the shows they

(40:54):
watch.
And when you lean into that,marketing becomes fun and easy,
right.
And if you decide to say, well,you know what, I'm going to
give this a shot, and you figureout, oh, now I'm so close to my
fans I can touch them at a show.
That's a big deal.
So I know I went off a littletangent there, but I hopefully

(41:15):
no, no, no.

Speaker 1 (41:16):
That's a really good point.
So, practically speaking, I'djust like to get your feedback
on this.
I met a person who will gounnamed I can't remember their
name anyway, so it's really easyto not name them told me that
they wrote a book with their AIon the way to 20 bucks.

(41:37):
They edited with their AI onthe way to 20 bucks.
They had their AI coverdesigner create 20 something

(41:57):
covers.
When they pulled into theparking lot they picked a cover
and published and so in a couplehours and you know, that's
every author's nightmare, every,I would say, writing author
like author who does it the waythat we've always done it, where

(42:18):
you sit down and you type, andit's everybody's nightmare.
And if that kind of thing iscoming down the pike like, would
you guys, would Author Nation,look at that as well?
If that's the kind of thing youwant to do over here is, of
course, on how to do that, orwould that be like no, let's

(42:40):
throw rotten tomatoes.

Speaker 3 (42:42):
No, no, no, we're not .
Like I said before, we want, inmy perfect world, if we were
having a panel on AI.
Everyone that's on that panelshould be prepared to argue the
other person's side and do it ina civil way, right?
And I want to go touch on thisAI thing because I think a lot
of what people are concernedabout is already here and it's

(43:04):
not relevant.
So the fact that somebody haschosen that that's going to be
their business model, for theirbusiness where I start to have a
problem with that is if they'rebeing inauthentic and saying,
well, I'm writing all thesebooks.
I know a lot of people that useghostwriters or use tools like
this to augment their business,and as long as they're being

(43:26):
honest or not making it theirbig issue, then I don't think
that's my business to get intoand I think that if I stay in my
lane and I focus on mycustomers and my content, that's
what I have control over andthat's when I can win the idea
that there's going to be thisflood of books.
Spoiler alert that alreadyhappened.

(43:47):
Yeah, just in the time thatI've been in this industry, the
titles on Amazon has doubledevery three years.
Yeah, it's scary how fast,right.
The good thing is sort of good.
Bad is that the market sortsthrough that really quick, right
.
Sort of good.
Bad is that the market sortsthrough that really quick, right
.
So I trust that the market willfigure out what good and bad is

(44:09):
.
Now here's the thing I wouldhave everyone to think through
on the whole AI front.
If there is an audience that iscompletely comfortable with
books that are 100% createdthrough an automated process,
the guys that you have to worryabout in that aren't this person
that you met at the show?

(44:30):
It's Amazon, because if I was asenior VP at Amazon and I could
see that I could get rid of allof you and just take all the
content that I have on thesecustomers, which I have all of
it and all of these books, andthey have the money and the
capacity to design their ownmodel that none of us could

(44:51):
compete with.
That means that KU is gone foreverybody.
Yeah, yeah, I want to talk abouta dystopian apocalypse for
authors.
That's a version to consider.
Are you protected against that?
Because, if you know, here'sthe other thing is the person
you talked about.
There still needs to be a humanin that loop that can stay on

(45:14):
top of trends and can stay therealways has to be a human that's
guiding that process and makingsure they're hitting tropes and
doing what, or again the marketwill sort it out.
Hitting tropes and doing what,or again the market will sort it
out.
So I'm not concerned that AI isgoing to be the end, all be all

(45:38):
.
I also think if you're amediocre author, like you're not
actually working on your craftand making that a core part of
your growth process, ai can onlyget you up to the mean, right
If you which may be animprovement, sorry, but like for
some people right, but likethat same tool in the hands of
somebody that's a good writer isgoing to make them an excellent

(45:59):
, productive writer, right?
My analogy with this is if yougave a $1,000 driver to me to
play golf with, and I suck, allI'm going to do with that thing
is I'm going to knock it furtherinto the woods faster.
You give that same driver toTiger Woods, he's going to put

(46:21):
60 yards on the ball and it'sgoing to be closer to the hole.
So it's a tool, and whose handsit's in determines how evil it
becomes or how the ball, andit's going to be closer to the
hole.
So it's a tool, and whose handsit's in determines how evil it
becomes or how good or bad it'sused.
So I would just caution authorsnot to waste a lot of cycles
fretting over that part of theAI thing.
I would be thinking about howcan I use AI tools to help me

(46:42):
better research my audience,make me productive in areas
where I don't necessarily wantto do the work.

Speaker 1 (46:50):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (46:51):
Right.

Speaker 1 (46:51):
Book blurbs yeah, getting help with book blurbs I
100% agree with you.
And I also agree with you thatjust things like bots when they
first started, in the verybeginning, you know you're
getting these people who aretrying to sign up for your
Facebook page and they've gotlittle photos or they've got a

(47:12):
page, and in the beginning weall thought they were real
people.
That lasted for about twomonths and then it was like we
can all spot a bot from a mileaway.
It's just, you know, they'reall over the place and they've
become a nuisance.
They're kind of like themosquitoes of social media.
So I'm not as worried about iteither.

(47:33):
I just wanted to hear your takeon that.

Speaker 3 (47:35):
It's like yeah, I think you know where I'm really
focused and this gets back.
Kind of the core mission ofthis thing is like let's talk
about where we want to take theindustry.
Kind of the core mission ofthis thing is like let's let's
talk about where we want to takethe industry, not where these
other companies want us to goRight.

Speaker 1 (47:48):
I like, I really like that yeah.

Speaker 3 (47:50):
Right, is it going to be harder?
Yeah, do you want to havecontrol over your destiny?
Right, like, let's have itwhere.
Like you know, the the childrenwe raise here you and I screwed
up together.
It wasn't our nanny that did it.
So my whole idea is that let'sguide this, let's think this

(48:16):
thing through, and when I boilthings down to basic principles,
it's like well, what do we needto build AuthorNation on?
Well, we need to build thestrong community of like-minded
authors that are thinking thatway.
There's going to be some peoplethat don't think this way.
There's going to be thosescammer folks.
They're going to go do theirown mastermind somewhere else
and do all kinds of black hattactics, stuff.
They're around.
Then what can we do to bring areader community around that?

(48:38):
So one of the other thingsthat's with the show that's
changing is we've always had thereader author Vegas event on
the last day.
We're increasing the size ofthat and we're focusing on
actively getting more readersthere, because then that the
more like, do you have enoughreaders.

Speaker 2 (48:58):
No, I don't.
I've got an author that's likenah, nah, nah, yeah.

Speaker 3 (49:06):
So how, how, how, let , let me, let me build that
community and and thinking aboutit, from that like, oh, we're
just bringing you in here so wecan show you books, no, let's
make it for a fun place forpeople that love the act of
listening or the act of reading,and bring them together so they

(49:26):
can find their own people andbring this group together in a
way that's outside of all ofthese other people that are
trying to turn us into theirproducts.

Speaker 1 (49:39):
Yeah, I really like that.
Yeah, it's kind of like theresurgence of the small,
privately owned bookstore.
You know there is a resurgenceof that because people like that
community.
They like the community, theywant to walk in, they want to
feel the book they want.
You know, every Friday nightthere's an author there talking

(49:59):
and signing books.
They want to feel a part ofthat and it's almost like Author
Nation is doing that on a bigscale.
So I love that.

Speaker 3 (50:08):
Yeah, I think we're trying to make it so that you
can maximize the utility of theshow.
Like, I mean, it's going to bea long week, right.
You come there, you talk tovendors we have all the vendors
there and spend time with them.
You learn stuff, you get tohang out with your homies and
talk shop and share ideas, andthen you got to put your author
face on and be in front ofauthors if you decide you're

(50:29):
going to be part, or in front ofreaders if you decide you're
going to do that Long, long time.
But, like, if we can get itwhere you come off of that show
with a lot of objectivesachieved and that just now
allows you to go back and do thethings you need to do to
nurture that audience, implementthose ideas, then we've got
something that's really reallyspecial and different and that's

(50:51):
like, for me, I love thischallenge.
It's to be able to takesomething like this that had
this great foundation and say,okay, it served its purpose and
you know, now it's this new time, it just needs a little bit of
adjustment and a little bit ofbringing some other people in to

(51:13):
get it so that it's set for thenext three to five years, right
.

Speaker 2 (51:17):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (51:17):
Because who knows how long this cycle will be?
It's true.

Speaker 2 (51:21):
So one of the things that we teach is we teach
authors how to write a taglinefor their author business, and
it starts with a missionstatement and then a tagline.
So I'm curious, and I'm kind ofputting you on the spot here a
little bit, but do you have amission statement or tagline,
like a one or two sentence thing, to sum up what AuthorNation

(51:43):
will be?

Speaker 3 (51:44):
Yeah, we're here to help you find your best life
through writing, like that wason the first slide that came up
when we put the logo up.
I mean, I'm a real big believerand you have to understand your
brand promise, because if youdon't understand that, how do
you infuse it into the books andinto your marketing?
Right, because whatever myfirst touch is, I need to get a

(52:04):
taste of that and be like itsmells like cinnamon and I like
cinnamon, right.
So then you start moving in.
It's like, oh yeah, this isgoing to be a buttery cinnamon
cookie.
I love them, right.
And then I bite into it andit's like peanuts.
Like that's where things gowrong with a brand.
It's like you were telling meabout butter and cinnamon and

(52:27):
not peanuts.
And I think that when you startdoing that stuff, you know
coming with that tagline andhonoring yourself I think that's
where a lot of authors theycome like.
Megan told me I had to have one,so I made it.
It's around here somewhere.
Where is it?
Yeah, yeah, if it's, you know,if I can't sniff it out in the

(52:47):
first line of your book, thenfail.

Speaker 2 (52:50):
Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1 (52:52):
I also think that what you're doing is the
philosophy is very much, thinkabout, step back and think about
yourself as an author and whereyou want to go.
Because a lot of writers don't,especially in the beginning.
They think about their book ortheir book series and everything
is about those characters inthat world.

(53:12):
Because that's the way writersthink, their imagination, people
and they forget that they arethe person behind that and they
may write more series and theywill hopefully write more books,
and so it's like, what is whatyou just said?
What is your brand promise?
Because I want my readers toknow that, whether it's a more

(53:34):
domestic suspense or it's afunnier lightly, I call them the
lighter side of death mysteriesOn this side, you know it's
still a Greta Boris book, thatthere's something about that
book.
Now, you may like one flavor ofmy ice cream better than
another flavor of my ice cream,but I'm still Ben and Jerry's.

Speaker 3 (53:55):
Exactly exactly.

Speaker 1 (53:56):
The quality of the ice cream is there.

Speaker 3 (53:58):
Yeah, and that becomes.
You know there's phases in howthis thing escalates right In
the beginning.
It's helping them to get entryinto your product right, because
you know there's phases in howthis thing escalates right In
the beginning.
It's helping them to get entryinto your product right, because
you know I've talked about thisin the books I've written and
the whole idea of this barrierto entry and exit In the
beginning a lot of readers wouldrather read a book they've
already read than read a newbook because it's so funny to me

(54:22):
.
Well, but it isn't.
When you think about thetransaction of time.

Speaker 2 (54:26):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (54:26):
Right.
It's like I know if I do thiswith my time, I'm going to get
the experience I was expecting.
If I try, if I set aside thistime and I go read a book I
don't have an author, I don'tknow, like, then there's a high.
I've had a lot of opportunityto be disappointed and so I
don't want to have that happenagain, so I'll just do this.

(54:48):
But if you do get them overthat and that's become where the
brand promise or your taglinecomes into this whole idea, it's
like oh, that soundsinteresting to me, I'll give it
a shot.
And they read that firstsentence.
It gets them to the paragraph,to the page, to the chapter.
Right Now the book's sellingitself and now that becomes a
barrier to exit.
Now they're like oh well, Ilike Greta Boris.

(55:10):
I'm not even really looking atwhat the book is.
I know it's going to be closeenough for government work for
what I like, and they buy itjust on that, right.
But that takes time to developand of course, in that process,
if you're a startup and you'refinding your voice, so it's a
little wonky, right.
The product, that's okay,you'll get there.

(55:31):
You have to write like that'sthe crazy thing about this
industry is being able to likewrite books and sell them to
people and I'm like, oh yeah,but there's something there, I'm
going to read the next one.
Right, and then they become abig fan.
I think that there's not manyplaces you can learn on the job
like that.

Speaker 1 (55:52):
Yeah, yeah.
Well, and I do love the idea ofthe three tracks.
I think that really helpsbecause, especially with a
really large conference, peoplecan come in.
A new person coming in can getso lost.
Where do I?
And then you can.
You know I mean everythingcosts money the conference, the
airfare, the hotel, the food andyou can end up wasting the

(56:17):
first several days of yourconference because you're not
exactly sure where you want togo.
So I heard you talking onanother podcast, one of our
favorites, the Wish I'd Knownthem podcast, that little shout
out about how Lulu has developeda product, a notebook, that

(56:37):
you're going to be giving peoplethat will help guide them.
I love this idea.
Why don't you just tell usabout this a little bit?

Speaker 3 (56:44):
Yeah.
So the idea is, you know andthere's more to this whole thing
and again, like, please bearwith me, this is all an
experiment.
This is how I work.
Things will go wrong, I promise.
If it's really bad I'llapologize and we'll.
But like the idea is like wetalked about the tracks and we
have the programming.
But like the idea is like wetalked about the tracks and we

(57:06):
have the programming.
This notebook, you know, ifyou're like me, you come away
from most shows just overwhelmedwith ideas.
And the notebook is designed ina way and we're just finishing
up the design of it where ithelps you to consolidate your
learning during the show, likeunderstanding the questions that
you want to get answered.
That's a big part of this iswhat questions should I be

(57:29):
asking to get the answers for?
For me, like, if I'm earlystarting, like what are the
different technologies I need toevaluate?
At the end of the show there'llbe a process to consolidate
that down to actionable items.
So you know what you're goingto need to get published, what
you need to think to getprofitable and then, like the

(57:51):
larger group of people, likewhat you're doing to take your
business to where you want it togo next.
Right, that's going to be verythat'll be varied.
Now.
We just started implementing avirtual community and the idea
of what we're doing with thevirtual community is that the
different regions will beincentivized for the people in

(58:15):
their group that come home fromthe show to achieve those goals.
So 100 people in this regioncome back and say you know, I'm
looking to get published by theend of this, by the next show.
The percentage of those that getpublished will rank against
each other and we will allocatescholarship money to the regions

(58:39):
that do the best job.
So we're trying to have a waythat, like we have folks like
Damon Courtney at BookFunnel,who's very generous and you know
, donates a lot of money to havepeople come to the show.
How does that money get doledout will be based on how these

(58:59):
local communities support eachother.
So the whole idea is is thatthe program and the notebook,
like the program helps you pickwhat to do in the notebook.
The notebook helps youconsolidate down what you're
trying to do and then you comehome and you share this with
your people you met at the showand people in your region.
You say this is what I'm tryingto do is support each other.
Those of you that achieve themost will then drive next year

(59:22):
more money into your region toget more new people, or people
that can't afford to come to theshow, to go to the show.

Speaker 1 (59:29):
Oh, I love that, that's great.
That's really wonderful, a lotof moving parts.

Speaker 3 (59:33):
We're figuring it out as we go.
We're still looking for somefolks to be regional managers in
this whole process.
This is the way my brain worksis putting all these systems in
place, and then we'll optimizethem as we go along so that we
have a way to affect the changewe want.
Again, rolling back big thingShows about finding your best

(59:55):
life through writing and usbeing able to influence how the
market works.
This becomes a mechanism for usto do that.

Speaker 2 (01:00:10):
That's great.
Well, we actually went way overtime.
I did not want to stop thisconversation.

Speaker 1 (01:00:15):
She just ignored it.

Speaker 2 (01:00:19):
I did Sorry, no, no, no, we kept asking you more and
more questions.
It was just such a good.

Speaker 1 (01:00:25):
I mean, I just have to say one thing.
I tell you, we have thisconversation today, the concept
of hey, get the authors together, we don't have to be victims of
big publishing, of Amazon, ofanybody.
Not that they're trying tovictimize us, I'm not trying but
I'm just saying that we can andshould influence the direction

(01:00:49):
of our own industry.
For goodness sake.
I just I mean, that's just afabulous concept.
I just love that.

Speaker 3 (01:00:57):
Well, we're suckers.
We're suckers for this.
We fall for it every time.
The playbook that's being runat TikTok right now has been run
on us before and that will berun on us again.
They are using us to create anaudience that they can monetize,
and the bizarre thing is thatthey end up charging us to pay

(01:01:20):
to get to that audience that wehelp them build, and it doesn't
matter and this gets back.
I know we're supposed to wrapup, but this, I think, is really
important us to pay to get tothat audience that we helped
them build.
And it doesn't matter.
There isn't.
This is, and this gets back.
I know we're supposed to wrapup, but this, I think, is really
important.
This is what I saw back in 2017at the show is that it doesn't
matter how big Disney gets.
It doesn't matter how bigAmazon gets.
They don't create content.
They may be a great distributorof it, they may be willing to

(01:01:44):
pay through the nose for it, butit's folks like us, folks like
the indie community, that aregoing to build this iconic stuff
that's going to change theworld and make people tattoo it
on themselves, not some guysitting over at Amazon Prime.
Yeah, he'll write a check forit, but he's not going to invent
it.
So how can we start tounderstand that power, right?

(01:02:08):
Because it's very, very simplewhat they do when they run up
one of these platforms.
They want to have a lot of bigpeople on there, but none of
them so big that if they lostthem it would hurt the platform.
And they want to have a massivelong tail of people that hope
that they can someday be the guyon the top of the pile.
And when they get that, we'reall stuck in the plantation

(01:02:31):
again.
We have to stop it, right,because they need us, they need
our content.
Going to be a lot of work andhard you having that one-to-one
relationship and being able toaggregate that bigger audience
to your platform.
We just have to do that work,and I don't know what all that

(01:02:53):
work is, but we're going tofigure it out at AuthorNation.

Speaker 1 (01:02:56):
Good, because I need to know yeah for sure.
Absolutely.
Why don't you tell listenersbecause now I'm sure they're
just dying to run and find outmore about AuthorNation where
they can find out all thesethings?

Speaker 3 (01:03:13):
Sure, so if you go to AuthorNationlive, you'll go
right to our page to get yourticket.
We have a live ticket for theshow in Vegas.
That's the 11th through the15th of November.
We also have a digital ticket.
We have a live ticket for theshow in Vegas.
That's the 11th through the15th of November.
We also have a digital ticket.
That is not a live stream, it'sjust to get access to the
videos.
But it's for those folks thatare in different budget and

(01:03:36):
can't attend Stan being in LasVegas.
We've got an option for you.
Yeah, yeah, that's the place togo.
There's a spot there.
If you're not really sure,you're kind of Author Nation,
curious but not committed thenjust sign up for our newsletter
and you'll get a lot ofinformation and we'll get you
into the community and you'llget to start experiencing what

(01:03:58):
we're trying to do here.

Speaker 1 (01:04:00):
And you have a podcast as well, where people
can listen to more conversationslike this.

Speaker 3 (01:04:04):
Yeah, yeah, and Kevin is kind of the voice of the
nation.
He opens up most of ourpodcasts and does a lot of the
interviews, but what we're doingis we're going around the
United States because you knowI'm an American, so it's like
the world centers around us, butso like that's the nation Sorry
, bigoted American.
But yeah, we've gone around andwe're actually, when we go and

(01:04:26):
like we're going to be inCleveland in a couple of weeks
and then we're going to be inRaleigh, we'll meet with locals
there and we basically rent outa studio and hang out, because
the power of getting two orthree authors together just
talking about this stuff, whathappens off mic and on mic
becomes so powerful, and I thinkit's the essence of what we're
trying to do here.

Speaker 1 (01:04:47):
Well, that's really great and we will have all those
links in the show notes To allyou listeners.
If you are curious about thiswhole thing we were talking
about brand we do have a freeseven-day course on our website
you can go.
It's called Seven Days toClarity Uncover your author,

(01:05:08):
brand or something really closeto that.

Speaker 2 (01:05:11):
Author purpose it's author purpose.
Author purpose Uncover yourauthor purpose.

Speaker 1 (01:05:15):
I knew it was close to that.
Anyway, you can grab that atauthorrealcom slash stuff and
also, if you enjoyed this showand conversations like we are
having, we would reallyappreciate it if you'd buy us a
cup of coffee.
Your $3 a month or whatever youcan afford really helps us keep

(01:05:37):
the lights on, pay the editorand get these amazing people
like Joe Solari that come andeducate us.
So that link is also in theshow notes.
Until next time, keep yourstories rolling.