August 25, 2025 • 67 mins
Aron Ralston's name became synonymous with extraordinary survival when, trapped by a boulder in Utah's Blue John Canyon for six days, he amputated his own arm with a dull multi-tool knife to escape certain death. Yet as he reveals in this profound conversation, the physical act of cutting through his arm represents just a fraction of his story's true significance.
"We don't get to control what happens to us, we get to choose how we respond," Aron reflects, distilling two decades of post-trauma wisdom into a philosophy that transforms boulders into blessings. The gift of his ordeal wasn't merely survival but a complete reorientation toward what truly matters—loving relationships, present-moment awareness, and the spiritual connections that transcend our physical limitations.
The podcast delves into the mystical dimensions of Aron's experience, from recording goodbye messages that filled him with gratitude rather than despair to experiencing a vision of his future son that gave him the determination to free himself. These moments reveal how crisis can strip away superficial concerns and connect us to deeper truths. "You cannot simultaneously hold profound despair and profound gratitude in your heart at the same time," he observes, offering a practical approach to navigating life's inevitable challenges.
Now approaching fifty with two children, Aron describes how his understanding of "victory" has evolved from achievement to connection. The father who once sought to conquer Colorado's highest peaks now finds his greatest wins in moments of connection with his children and in choosing peace over being right. His powerful mantra "I'm still here" serves as both a survival declaration and a mindfulness practice that grounds us in the fundamental gift of existence.
Whether you're facing your own metaphorical boulder or simply seeking to live with greater presence and purpose, Aron's journey offers a roadmap for transforming adversity through acceptance, gratitude, and the recognition that our true legacy lies not in what we accomplish but in how we love. Listen, share, and discover how to use life's challenges as catalysts for profound transformation.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hello and welcome to the Bamboo Lab Podcast with your
host, peak Performance Coach,brian Bosley.
Are you stuck on the hamsterwheel of life, spinning and
spinning but not really movingforward?
Are you ready to jump off andsoar?
Are you finally ready to sculptyour life?
If so, you've landed in theright place.
(00:21):
This podcast is created andbroadcast just for you, all of
you strivers, thrivers andsurvivors out there.
If you'd like to learn moreabout Brian and the Bamboo Lab,
feel free to reach out toexplore your true peak level at
wwwbamboolab3.com.
Speaker 2 (00:41):
Welcome everyone to this week's episode of the
Bamboo Lab Podcast.
As always, I'm your host, brianBosley.
Folks, I'm not going to give abig introduction or bio to this
guest that we have today, but Iwill give you a clue.
Back in 2003, in April of 2003,there was a young man he was 27
(01:03):
years old, was out doing a solodescent of Blue John Canyon in
Utah and something happened.
He slipped down this crevasseand a rock followed him down and
crushed his right arm.
He was stuck there for severaldays and what he had to do to
(01:25):
get to freedom and save his lifeis a story you'll never forget.
You may know him by his bookBetween a Rock and a Hard Place
amazing read.
We'll have a link to that onthe show notes today.
Or you may remember the moviestarring James Franco called 127
Hours.
Speaker 3 (01:43):
Enough hints Today we have Aaron Ralston on.
Aaron, my, my new friend,welcome to the bamboo lab
podcast.
Thank you so much, brian, Iappreciate it.
Uh, yeah, oftentimes I'm justsimply known as the guy that cut
his arm off.
So I, I, I I'm glad you gave alittle bit more context, okay
well, I do have to tell you thisa, aaron.
Speaker 2 (02:03):
My mom has never seen the movie.
My mom doesn't watch TV otherthan the three channels she has.
She's never read the book.
My mom is 90 years old.
She'll be listening to this.
She's the first listener ofevery show.
I was out hiking today and Icalled her and I actually spoke
to her through my whole hike andwe were talking about I have to
go back and do a podcast thisafternoon.
She goes who do you have?
(02:23):
And I told her and I didn'ttell her about the arm part
until I told her your story andyou were hiking and you're
climbing these mountains becauseI hike a lot and I said you
know how he got free, mom, shegoes.
No, I said he cut his arm offand she went oh my God, she
couldn't, she was just, she wasflabbergasted.
So what do you think she saidto me Brian, you make sure
(02:45):
you're careful when you're outhiking.
I'm like I'm not hiking Utahman and I'm not going down in
caves and canyons.
Speaker 3 (02:53):
But that is a good lesson.
Let your mom know where you'regoing.
Be careful, watch out forfalling rocks.
Carry a sharp knife.
Speaker 2 (03:00):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (03:01):
Cover the bases here.
Good job, mom.
Yeah, the basis here, you knowgood job, mom.
Speaker 2 (03:03):
Until I watched the movie again last night for the
second time, aaron, I didn'trealize then that the um, the um
, the yeah, their multi-purposetool you had was actually a
cheap one so cheap.
Speaker 3 (03:17):
It was free actually.
Yes, technically with aflashlight.
That's amazing.
When I go out with friends andthere's an opportunity, we need
a knife or something.
Sorry guys, famously I onlycarry doll pocket knives, so I'm
no use here.
We need to cut the salami andcheese for lunch.
Speaker 2 (03:43):
That one you could probably handle with that knife.
Speaker 3 (03:47):
I don't know, it was not much better than the handle
end of a spoon.
Really that's amazing, but itdid get the job done.
I'll say after six days.
Speaker 2 (03:59):
After six Do you still have that knife?
Speaker 3 (04:01):
I do.
Actually, I'm looking at itright across my office, are you
really?
I have a little, you know,museum including yeah, that tool
, uh, it's uh.
Yeah, it was not the one that Iwould take, but it happened to
be the one I had in my um, in myglove box, and I love the sort
of the metaphor of that.
You know that you say, you, yougo to battle with the army.
You have not the army you wantto, so sometimes you find
(04:22):
yourself, you know, cutting yourarm off with the army.
you have not the army you want.
So sometimes you find yourself,you know, cutting your arm off
with the tool you have not thetool you want, but it's how life
goes sometimes.
Speaker 2 (04:33):
That right.
There is a great lesson foranybody.
I think, going through anyproblem you have right now in
life, it doesn't matter what itis.
You know because I think sooften, aaron, when we're going
through a problem, you knowobviously not as egregious as
yours most often, but anyemotional, financial, health
problem, relationship problem,it's like we're looking for all
these other tools or looking formore help.
(04:53):
But sometimes you just have tofight with what you have and you
know and make the best of it,which you clearly did.
Speaker 3 (04:59):
It's the best way to create peace, to find presence
in life.
It's the best way to createpeace, to find presence in life.
It's about being in this verymoment, not in some other moment
that you wish you were, whereyou had more or less or less.
You're just here with it, and Ithink it is really solid advice
(05:23):
, especially because that's whatwe're made of, jumping already
into the metaphysics of it all,but it's really, in the end,
about our presence in thisexperience as human beings, that
we don't always get to knoweverything we'd like to know
before we have to make a choiceor a decision.
(05:44):
Get to know everything we'dlike to know before we have to
make a choice or a decision.
We we don't always get to haveall the resources that we prefer
to have, and yet we still arein this, and so to give
ourselves the grace with thatand also to find the courage to
take bold action, because that'sthat's really where the genius
and the magic of life comes to.
It's still about taking thatleap making, as it were.
(06:06):
For me, making that cut and notknowing, but committing to a
process rather than an outcome.
Speaker 2 (06:13):
Oh, I love it.
Well, we're going to get intoall what you've learned, because
I'm so curious to see whereyou've come from, that
27-year-old man to now.
Next in October, going to bejoining the 50-year-old men club
here.
We'll get into that in a minute.
Can you tell all of us a littlebit about who you are, your
childhood, where you grew up,aaron?
A little bit about your family,or maybe was there any one
(06:34):
person that inspired you growingup?
Speaker 3 (06:39):
So a little bit about your background.
Yeah, for sure, I mean I knowyou're based in the Midwest.
I grew up in Ohio and Indiana.
I was know you're based inmidwest, I grew up in ohio and
indiana, that I was born out ina rural farmstead, I mean after
we came home from the hospital.
But uh yeah, I grew upsurrounded by cornfields and
soybeans and, uh yeah, cows, andthat was my dad's industry.
(07:01):
That eventually brought us toindiana with the cattlemen's
Association and then to Coloradowith the Sheep Industry
Association and I was 11 yearsold, moving to the west in the
Rocky Mountains and my family.
We started going out onvacations to the national parks
and exploring all these grandlandscapes and getting into the
(07:22):
sports and activities as onedoes out here.
It's kind of the amenitieslifestyle that I still
appreciate and pursue today.
It was skiing.
It then got into hiking andrafting and just all the
exploring, and both theexploring of of the mountains
but also the exploring thathappens internally, which became
(07:45):
more of the quest for me as Iwent through my adolescence and
had my challenges.
It was among the first bouldersin my life as I make this
metaphor about the rock, ofcourse, that befell me in Bluzon
Canyon but that I was a kid whohad come to a new state, a new
(08:06):
school, didn't have friends andrelations here, that it was
exacerbated by me being anaccelerated kid and gifted and
talented like I skipped a gradeand so I was the smallest and
youngest kid in the whole schooland that didn't go great for me
(08:26):
back in an era before we hadanti-bullying programs and
inclusivity programs and all therest of it like my kids get to
enjoy today.
But it then fell to my ego andself-esteem project to find a
way where I could build myselfup in the midst of the feeling
from others that I was less thanor not enough, and I think it's
(09:00):
a pretty universal experiencewhen we have those suspicions or
fears that we aren defensemechanisms.
Even that part of it was toinclude the proof to others that
I was enough, that I wascapable, especially in then
areas outside of academics.
(09:22):
And of course you can see howthis leads to the explorations,
the adventuring and trying to benot just enough but even better
and to then do things.
And I set about a project in myearly 20s where I decided I was
(09:43):
going to try to become the firstperson to ever climb all the
highest mountains that we havein Colorado in the wintertime,
solo, which was something thathad never been done before.
And if you think for a momentabout why that might be it had
never been done before, it'sbecause it was stupid, dangerous
, just on the ridiculous levelof extreme.
And yet I embarked on that andsurvived my learning curve along
(10:08):
the way through many, manyadversities, which taught me a
great deal about myself that Iwas someone who was capable,
that I I could do things, thatthat seemed impossible, and in
the midst of that I was aboutthree-fourths of the way through
that project of all thesealmost 60 mountains that we have
, that rise about 14,000 feetabove sea level, that I quit my
(10:32):
career as a mechanical engineerand decided to move to Aspen in
Colorado, where I was workingwhile mountain shop.
And then, in the off-season ofmy winter solo project, I found
myself out on a walk in the parkin Blue John Canyon.
So I was a very experiencedoutdoorsman by that point and
(10:54):
definitely overlooked some ofthe potential consequences of my
choices that day.
I made choices to go by myself,as I often did, but in this
instance I didn't leave anitinerary.
No one knew what state I was in.
So I was out in the middle ofthat hike and when fate would
deliver me a very interestinganswer to a question that I'd
(11:19):
long asked, which was who wouldI be?
What would I do if my life wereon the line?
well, that question was answeredyeah, if we have doubts, if we
have those kinds of curiositiesin our lives like am I good
(11:39):
enough, am I, am I worthy that?
What would I do?
I've been inspired by otherstories of adventuresurers,
misadventurers, people who hadfound themselves on the very
edge of experience of survival,and people who found something
in themselves and I wonderedwhat's inside of me.
(12:01):
Now, that was not on theforefront of my mind as I was
descending that canyon that day.
I was just out for a good time.
I was celebrating a successfulwinter of climbing and it was
for me to take like spring break.
Winter was over.
It was now the end of april.
(12:22):
It was 80 degrees out in thedesert.
Uh, just gorgeous bluebird days,beautiful sandstone slot
canyons not the grand canyon,these are micro canyons, almost
in, in the sense that they mightonly be as wide as your
shoulders and maybe five to tenstories deep and that you're
descending down.
(12:43):
There can be drop-offs, rappels, the down climbs and it's uh,
it's largely, especially in acanyon.
That's been been documented.
It's, it's, uh, an adventure,but you still mostly know what's
coming.
And, yeah, I I was not at allput off by the idea that, okay,
(13:07):
I'm going down through thissection by myself, uh, that
there might be risks, um, that Icouldn't get myself through.
Now.
That was all withoutanticipating, of course, that
the exact circumstance thatbefell me maybe a one in a
million kind of situation butthat I dislodged a rock that I
was climbing down off of, thatwas stuck between the walls of
(13:32):
the Canyon, kind of an obstacleat the edge of a drop off, and I
was using it to continue mydescent.
And when I was dangling from itat full extension, as if I just
slam dunked a basketball off thebackside of it, that I torqued
that boulder free from itsmoorings where it was wedged,
(13:55):
and I was falling then in thebottom of the canyon, the rock
was falling from my head andjust in a split second, as I put
my arms up above my skull totry to protect myself, push
myself out from under the rock,I was successful in that, but of
course I would expose my hands.
And as the boulder ricochetedbetween the walls, it smashed my
(14:18):
left hand just for a splitsecond.
It rebounded, smashed my righthand against the right wall of
the canyon, it it bounced oncemore and in that split second,
now my hand slipped in betweenthe boulder and the wall even
further, as then the wallstapered down in this
constriction right in front ofmy chest, where the boulder
(14:40):
became wedged as it had been,but about seven feet lower down
right in front of me, as I'mstanding in this narrow defile
in the canyon bottom, and my armwas now disappearing, crushed
into this possibly small shadowbetween the boulder and the wall
of the canyon.
Speaker 2 (14:59):
Okay, I've got a question for you.
As we talk on here about somuch about human behavior and
peak performance in the humanmind, what is the first thought
that happens?
What's the first thing thatgoes through your head when you
look and see your hand and yourarm trapped?
Speaker 3 (15:17):
There was a moment, before I even felt the sensation
of it, where it was just ashock of disbelief of not not
being able to understand andcomprehend Like it looked, like
my arm had been swallowed by theboulder and the wall that that
somehow I just like plugged myarm up to like where you would
(15:41):
wear a wristwatch into.
This it was.
It was a gap of about a half aninch, like the width of my
pinky finger, as opposed tothree or three and a half inches
wide that your wrist is there.
So it was just theimpossibility, the visual
impossibility of what I wasseeing.
And then, of course, there's amicro delay of the time it takes
(16:08):
for the sensation to travelfrom your nerves all the way up
to your brain and boom, now thepain, something I've never
experienced before.
And that was where, of course,the next micro delay is the
adrenaline rush that comes out,where I am filled up with the
(16:29):
fury of rage of energy, tryingto harness it, as I had some
cognition that, okay, this isactually an opportunity here,
use all that brute force to tryto lift the rock, try to rip my
arm free.
I mean, I was punching theboulder, I was cursing at it
like I could just offend it intoletting me go, uh.
(16:52):
But it was very clear, eventhough this, this rage lasted
for over 45 minutes, that I wasnot going to brute force my way
through this.
I was going to have toeventually, and and I did, after
taking a lot of deep breaths, Iwas able to use what I now see
in hindsight, as a rubric tomanage crisis, which is this
(17:16):
STOP acronym, the S-T-O-P tostop, take a breath to T.
Think my way through this, asopposed to trying to brute force
my way through it, that I mightbe able to, uh, oh, make some
observations and come up withsome options and p decide on a
plan that I would, I could usesome of that mechanical
engineering background that Ihad, that I would be able to
(17:39):
problem solve like rationally,use some of the tools that are
in my brain, as opposed to justthe strength that's in my
muscles to, yeah, get myself outof this predicament that I
found myself in.
Speaker 2 (17:53):
Okay, I got so many questions to ask you.
The one question I have for youand this is a big one, so the
one question I ask everybodyquite frankly and I'm not going
to ask you is what is the one ofthe biggest obstacles you've
ever had to come over?
What is the one of the biggestchallenges you've ever had in
your life?
Let's forego that questiontoday more universal.
Speaker 3 (18:28):
I'm interjecting here , but I do think, to humanize me
, that I'm not just thischaracter from this esoteric
story, but that I've gonethrough, like I mentioned,
bullying and being ostracized bymy peers in my adolescence, of
course, financial hardships,hardships at times where,
cumulatively, my debt farexceeded by orders of magnitude
(18:48):
my checkbook balances and myincome even.
There have been plenty of timeswhere my health has been a huge
issue, especially, as youmentioned, I'm rolling towards
50 that one body part after thenext seems to come up with a new
(19:09):
boulder.
In my life I've been throughdivorce.
I've been through child custodylitigation.
I've had the challenges thatcome with having two kids, as
well as the fact that they'rewith two different moms, and
sometimes co-parenting scenariosthat aren't the most copacetic.
The health of my parents Sixyears ago my dad was diagnosed
(19:33):
with pancreatic cancer and aftersix months he passed away.
All of these things in my life.
I've dealt with depression andanxiety.
There are so many of theseobstacles, of boulders, and so,
without getting down about it, Ihave to remind myself, just as
I did with the boulder and thecanyon is that these things
(19:54):
arrive for us in our lives for areason, and we get to choose.
The reason that's kind of thegood news about it is that we
get to decide what is this herefor me to do.
It is that we get to decidewhat is this here for me to do,
and when we intentionally createmeaning around an adversity,
that's how we can turn it intoan advantage.
It's a process that starts withfirst discerning this is not
(20:17):
just a boulder, a burden, butrather I can make it into a
blessing.
Yeah, it takes a whole lot ofwork and that intention, that
determination takes entire,maybe years, of time and process
in order to bring that tofruition.
But it starts with the seed.
And that first question is whyis this here for me and what am
(20:39):
I going to do with it?
Speaker 2 (20:41):
Okay, I want to just interject for a minute here too,
aaron, because I think there'san audience member out there
right now whose mouth is agape,and I'm talking directly to that
member, that subscriber, thatlistener.
You've watched the movie.
Perhaps you've read the book.
You know Aaron's story.
I mean, the movie was anamazing hit.
(21:02):
The book does fantastic.
The movie was an amazing hit,the book does fantastic.
Great read, by the way, foreverybody.
But yet you just heard Aaron,who you might have saw on the
Howard Stern show.
You might have seen his skint,his little cameo on the Simpsons
.
This guy's been, I think,interviewed by David Letterman,
if I'm not mistaken, aaron, yeah, a couple times.
Speaker 3 (21:27):
I mean that is such a fun thing, like you know,
growing up like idolizing him,being a Midwesterner, and I'm
like, oh my goodness, I'm likesitting here, yeah, getting to
crack him up Like what fun I'vehad with all this.
Speaker 2 (21:40):
Well.
I think, yeah, I think thelesson here is for that listener
out there.
You also heard Aaron say healso has struggles too.
Personally, just like you do,just like I do.
We all have had financialstruggles.
Perhaps you know I've gonethrough custody battles.
Twice in my life.
I went through a divorce.
Many people have health issues,have lost their parents, go
(22:00):
through so many people, havefaced depression and anxiety.
This is not just the challengesand adversity you face.
These are universal challengesand adversities and when you
have a gentleman like Aaron onhere talking about how he still
faces these things at times, weall do.
But the idea is thoseadversities there, they arrive
(22:21):
for a reason and we get tochoose the reason.
I love that.
I love that what you said, andyou have to find meaning around
and why did it happen,potentially, and what am I going
to do with it?
I mean, that's probably the twogreatest or the greatest lesson
I've heard in 150 some episodesfor anybody, which means all of
us who are going through, havegone through or will grow
(22:42):
through some type of adversity.
So I appreciate that.
I think that was perfect thatwas a nugget right there that we
get to hear from somebody whoactually went through something
very challenging and traumaticat one time in his life.
What 22 years ago, aaron?
Yeah, 22 years ago, past April,right?
Speaker 3 (23:00):
Exactly, yeah, and I marked that anniversary because
it was this time where I wasgiven the greatest gifts that
I've ever receivedating my arm.
And to skip ahead a little bitto say that, in the end, even
(23:28):
the act of amputation was one ofthese incredibly powerful gifts
that I received from thatexperience, because I was
smiling as I'm going throughthat ostensibly horrific act to
be cutting through my arm and,yes, it made the sensation that
(23:48):
I felt being trapped by theboulder now feel like a zero on
a new scale of 10, that that wasthis incredible euphoria, also
because of what I was doing toget myself out of there, to give
myself a chance to take a stepout of what became my grave and
back into my life again.
(24:09):
That that is again thepotential that boulders have
within them.
And there's a lineShakespearean that nothing is
good or bad so much as what wethink of it.
Nothing is good or bad so muchas what we think of it, and
that's the idea that our minds,the choices we make, are our
(24:31):
power and they are the mostpowerful tool that we have when
it comes to facing our lives.
It's the meaning we put behindsomething, the meaning we put
behind something.
So for me to look back and beable to say on day two, when I
was out of options to get myselffree, that I knew that I
(24:51):
couldn't cut my arm off becauseI wouldn't even survive making
it back to my truck, let alonedriving out of the desert, I'm
like why did I have to buy astick shift, that I've got all
of these options that havefailed to get me out?
I can't carve through the rock.
I can't lift the boulder, evenwith all the mechanical
advantage systems that I'vebuilt with my ropes.
I can't wait for help.
(25:13):
No one's coming because no oneknows where I was.
All of it means that I'm goingto die here.
But what do I do in that momentthat the boulder gives me is to
understand.
I can get my camera out and Ican say goodbye, and I talk
about that as a gift, becausewhat it did was.
It connected me with what wasreally important in my life, at
(25:34):
a time when I mean, could you bemore isolated in the, in the
universe?
I don't know, maybe here'sthose of all the teen astronauts
standing on the back side ofthe moon that eventually made
their way home, but like to beout in this most remote desert,
in the bottom of a hole, whereno one's going to find me until
I'm a skeleton, and yet to beable to turn on my camera, look
through that video camera's lensand then connect with my loved
(25:58):
ones my mom, my dad, my sister,all my extended family, my
closest friends, and be able tosay these incredibly important
things I love you.
I'm sorry that I'm leaving you.
Thank you for everything thatyou've given me in my life, that
those words, those connections,that that brought me into this
(26:20):
place of being filled up withlove.
And there was no room fordespair, because I just felt
gratitude.
That was an incredible gift tome and I've used it many times
in my life since then,intentionally, because I learned
that lesson you cannotsimultaneously hold profound
despair and profound gratitudein your heart at the same time.
(26:43):
They displace one another andyou practice gratitude, you say
thank you, you go over the it'slike a thanksgiving time and to
understand what it is thatyou've been blessed with and
that that, to me, picked me up.
It gave me the strength, thecourage, the determination, the
(27:04):
perseverance, the resilience,everything that I was, and it
was there for me because of thatrock showing me what was what
was truly important in my life.
It was not a list of myachievements and accomplishments
that went on to that videocamera.
It was a will and testament, ina way, but the primary service
that it gave me was the abilityto know that my loved ones would
(27:29):
be on the other side of thatlens watching that, even if it
were after my death.
But that that's what showed mewhat I had to hold on to and
what would fuel me over thosecoming days.
It certainly wasn't just a fewcups of water that I had in one
of my Nalgene bottles by thatpoint.
It wasn't the little bit of mytwo convenience store burritos
(27:52):
that I had left in my foodsupply by the time I became
trapped.
It wasn't the inadequateclothing.
It didn't even have a jacketfor the 40 degree, 38 degree, 36
degree nights that I'd beshivering through.
What was going to keep me goingwas this connection to what was
important in my life, and whatI learned was that it's it's
(28:14):
loving relationships.
Speaker 2 (28:16):
Amen to that.
Thank you for saying that.
Do you think, aaron, if youwouldn't have had that little
video camera with you, whatwould that have changed for you?
Speaker 3 (28:26):
I think I would have found another way to have
achieved the same, I guess,process.
Maybe.
Maybe I would have taken myknife and started etching a
letter to my loved ones into thewall of the canyon Maybe I had
(28:49):
some paper with me that I couldhave figured out how to write
something to them or have simplytaken pictures on my other
camera.
I would have figured, beenthrough the prayers, that I,
that I also I used that as atool to connect myself with
(29:15):
greater energies in the universe, and that that I think that
could have sufficed as well.
It's something that we are, weare these energies, and we
forget on our daily experiencethat this tends to be fairly
superficial those moments whenwe can take a pause and remember
(29:39):
to breathe and to connect withour presence and to come back to
something that's really rootedand grounded in in the spiritual
reality of our, of ourexistence here.
And yet, you know, we we forgetto do that or we get caught up
in myself, I'm not immune tothat, but those kind of
(30:02):
communications that happenenergetically, let's say, rather
more than physically, thatthat's, that's no less real.
And I, I had experiences whileI was trapped of seeing my mom,
uh, and hearing her and wouldcome to find out, talking with
(30:23):
her afterwards, that, yes, I wassitting on those stairs in our
house and I was telling you thewhole long that we were coming
for you, that that I mean, itwas almost telepathic, like that
, you know something, somethingbeyond.
What I would say is like, oh,yeah, I, I believe in psychics,
I believe, like, yeah, I'm.
(30:44):
I think I find myself more onthe skeptical side of things,
like I'd like to have some proofthat that exists.
And yet, yeah, that was, in away, it was a personal
experience that does provideproof that we are connected in
ways that we don't always seeuntil enough gets stripped away
(31:07):
and out of our superficial levelexperience to that we see
something greater that'sunderneath it.
That in the end, before I wentthrough the final night of my
entrapment, when I'd written myepitaph into the wall of the
Canyon, I said my final goodbyeson the video camera that I had
(31:29):
an experience and had a bodyexperience where I was in a
living room and I saw what Iknew to be my future son and he
came running over me.
I scooped him up, I was dancingwith him, this little blonde
haired little boy, about threeand a half years old in that
moment, wouldn't be born forseven years from now, but at
this day here he's 15 and a half.
(31:51):
He's upstairs doing his onlineacademy.
We're going to go play lacrosselater in the afternoon.
That he is a little boy who cameto me and showed me that I was
going to have a life after thecamp and that I I have never had
a more mystical experience inmy life, that something that
showed me very clearly, uh, howwe are connected in love through
(32:14):
, like, across time, acrossdistance.
That it's, um, you know, the,the wormholes of our, of our
spiritualities that bring us tobe everywhere and anywhere, and
and that's, that's, and that'ssomething that served me.
(32:35):
And also today I can sit withand know our mortality, even
with my dad being now on theother side of this, that we all
come from some great pool ofconsciousness into this
experience and then we go backto it and that pulsing, that
breathing of our lives.
(32:56):
It brings me peace to know thatand to be comfortable with it.
So, again, more gifts from thiscanyon, from this builder.
Speaker 2 (33:08):
Well, that's the question I would have for you.
You were a mechanical engineer,obviously.
You went to Carnegie CarnegieMellon, I think.
You went to CMU, yep.
So I went to the other CMUcentral Michigan university, and
in Mount Pleasant, michigan,and we'd go on.
I played rugby in college sowe'd go on rugby tournaments and
our jackets always said CMUrugby.
And at tournaments, anyway, wehad so many people, oh you're
(33:30):
from CMU, yeah, yeah, and they'dstart talking.
I'm like I don't think we'retalking about the same CMU here.
They were talking aboutCarnegie Mellon a lot.
And we, obviously we have CMU.
I don't think we ever playedCarnegie Mellon in a game, I
don't recall, but that wouldhave been pretty cool.
Yeah, we didn't have a rugbyteam, so your son plays lacrosse
.
What position.
Speaker 3 (33:50):
Yeah, he's an attack.
I played lacrosse in college.
That was my travel thing.
I was also in the marching band.
Okay so we would travelsometimes to support the
football team Very goofy, sillyexperiences with all of that.
But yeah, he's found hispassion with all of that.
(34:14):
But yeah, he's found hispassion and it's something I, I
just adore for him that at thispoint his sister plays lacrosse
too.
She's just about to turn 12 now, uh, so they're three and a
half years apart, but that's,you know, anything he's doing,
she's got to be in and doing ittoo.
We, we go skiing and there'sbackpacking.
She's's in scouts.
So we were just up in themountains a weekend ago and
waiting out in the lakes andhiking cross country through
(34:38):
wildflower fields and jumping,doing jumping photos up on the
Continental Divide.
Just so many amazingexperiences with my kids that
have come true because of thatconnection that I first touched
on when I was.
I was in those moments when itwas, I thought I'd even etched
into the canyon, uh, the deathdate of April 2003.
(35:02):
And then, as I had thisexperience with my future son,
and at midnight the clock rolledover and all of a sudden it was
no longer april 30th but it wasmay 1st, and I even had to
decide whether or not to scratchout april and carve into the
wall may, because my epitaph isoutdated now and and yet it was
(35:25):
just the clarity, like, okay,that doesn't matter.
But what I did know, know, whatdid matter was that I was going
to see the other side of thisexperience in the canyon.
And again, what gifts that thatboulder gave me to understand
the power of love, of theseconnective energies in the
(35:47):
universe that I would getthrough.
And so in the end, that finaldawn gave way and I saw the
sunrise that I said I wasn'tgoing to see because of this
vision of this little boy, thatI was then so sure I was going
to get home to someday to seehim.
And that's how, in the finalmoments I can say I was smiling
(36:08):
as the idea comes to me that Idon't have to use the knife to
try to cut through the bones inmy arm.
I can use the boulder and howit was holding me to gain
leverage and bend bone in my armenough to break it as it snaps
in its cap gun kind of starterpistol.
The sound effect is crack in thecanyon.
(36:30):
And yet this smile gets evenbigger because I know I've
solved it.
I'm gonna do this, I'm gonnaget out of here, I'm gonna get
home, I'm gonna hug for my mom,I'm gonna see that little boy.
And, and I still recall how,all of a sudden, this, this
ecstasy, resolved into theunderstanding of oh, wait a
minute, there's another bonethere.
Oh, and so that, do it again.
(36:53):
And that's a crack that hadbroken the same spot, and this
mechanical you know, engineer,as we mentioned that that mind
took over and it was just okay.
What's next?
How do we overcome that?
Put the tourniquet on, keepcutting.
There's the nerve.
Yep, this is just going tohappen now.
And and yet, as I sucked in mybreath, as I severed that nerve
(37:20):
and I resolved, as I exhaled andI was smiling, the biggest
smile I've ever smiled in mylife.
I was getting through this, Iwas going to finish it and I had
to stretch my arm you stretchfabric in order to cut through
it, put a little tension thereand then that tension released,
I stepped out of my grave andinto my life again and the smile
(37:42):
was.
I felt the pain there, but itwas the possibility that was far
more important, the possibilityof everything in my life coming
back to me, that I had thechance now.
Maybe it was aone-in-a-thousand chance, but
(38:04):
that it was still a possibilitythat I was going to be able to
get out of there.
I did everything I had set outin my mind.
I know which direction.
I'm not going to head back tomy bike.
I'm going to be able to get outof there.
I did everything I had set outin my mind.
I know which direction.
I'm not going to head back tomy bike.
I'm going to head for my truck,continue down canyon.
Maybe I come across water.
I'm going to get to the bigdrop propel.
I bring my rope along.
I've got my arms slung and thentourniqueted to my just doing
(38:27):
the basic first aid that I could.
Speaker 2 (38:38):
Along the way, though , I even stopped and I took a
photo before I left the boulder,and I said thank you out loud
in that moment.
Speaker 3 (38:44):
You have to have that picture framed somewhere, don't
you?
It's definitely.
What I actually have is areplica fiberglass model of the
boulder sitting here in myoffice that I'm looking at as
well from the film set fromModern 27 Hours.
It's got James Franco's bloodon it Because, yeah, the
(39:06):
gratitude I have for that rock,it showed me what was important
to me in my life, what waspossible for me in my life, what
was extraordinary about beingalive and all of that.
That's this gift and, again,the choice I made to say, yeah,
I walked out of that place but Ididn't leave.
I didn't lose anything.
(39:28):
I left something behind, but Ionly gained from that.
This is the choice that I made.
This was not horrific, butrather the best thing that's
ever happened for me.
And yeah, it was far from over.
I did, on my way out, hike foralmost five and a half hours.
I covered six and a half milesof ground.
(39:49):
I run out of water that I foundat the bottom of the big drop
rappel.
I I'd been moving, juststaggering my my way, but I lost
over two liters of blood duringthat time.
I hadn't slept in six days, sojust the exhaustion.
I'd lost over 40 pounds.
I had just nothing left.
(40:11):
And yet, as I come to the momentwhere I'm having a heart attack
, from my body shutting down andthere not being enough blood to
pump in my system to get oxygento my brain, boom, it's
happening.
And what I realized is the roarthat is building in my chest,
(40:32):
that is somehow expandingoutside of my body, and I look
up and there's a helicopter thatpasses by and circles around
lands and plucks me out of theequation of that connection and
love that I had had with myfamily through the video cameras
(40:55):
that this was my mom'sprojection of manifestation of
her love, as she had figured outhow to motivate, search and
rescue to go find me, not evenknowing what state I was in.
But they tracked me down andplucked me out of that canyon
when I had minutes left to live.
Tracked me down and plucked meout of that canyon when I had
minutes left to live in.
That helicopter had minutes offuel left in this miraculous
(41:16):
synchronicity that gets me to ahospital before the helicopter
crashes or it bleeds to deathand I I'm here because of that
miracle.
That's that's to me.
The other side of this is thatit's it's these again, these big
energies that are out in theuniverse and how, how they?
(41:36):
You know we were these littleparticles that ping around,
bounce off each other and thatwe're connected through these
fields of force.
That that, yeah right, that'show miracles happen it is.
Speaker 2 (41:51):
You know, you would have told me this 15 years ago I
was the biggest skeptic ofmanifestation or energy, and
then I realized, probably 12years ago, that this is.
I based my whole life on it.
Now that it's now, you knowthere's so much science behind
it I mean, it's not psychobabble, bullcrap.
There's science behind this aswell, that we are, just, we're
(42:13):
energy, and energy really neverdies.
It just goes from one form tothe other and we can pass energy
.
Every time we communicate, youand I are passing energy on with
each other and we're there forit to the audience when this
goes live.
So people don't understand that.
They understand Wi-Fi signals,telephone signals, radio signals
, but they don't realize we giveoff signals so often and I
(42:35):
think there's nothing morepowerful than that now.
So I went from a completeatheist on these ideas to a
complete believer of just energybeing the sole controlling
force of our universe.
Speaker 3 (42:47):
Yeah, I mean, the nice thing is that it's like it
doesn't require you to believefor it to be true either Right
Facts and science just are, andso you can choose to, I think,
leverage it and use it and beaware of it, and that's I think
it's a beautiful thing.
It is, it is my experience andcertainly feels how I'm, why and
(43:12):
how I'm here, and so I'm glad,I'm glad to hear, yeah, that
that resonates for you and Ihope that it does, yeah, for the
listeners here too.
It's, it's something that's somuch bigger than us and that we,
yeah, we have free will, wehave choices to make, and also
that it's, it's a beautifulthing that it's not just up to
(43:34):
us either, and that that wassomething that brought me great
peace.
Uh, and I want to share this onthat line of thought, is that,
as I came to accept my situationand in my entrapment, and as it
applies to just about any otherBoulder that I meet in my
entrapment, and as it applies tojust about any other boulder
that I I meet in my life today,that that acceptance is where we
(43:57):
can come back to the peace thatwe have in our lives.
That it's when we resist.
What is when we resist the thewill of the universe, when we
resist the, the power of theenergies that are around us,
that that's where we createdissonance in our lives and
agitation, even inflammation.
It's something where, when wecan align ourselves with what is
(44:20):
with the will of the universe,that's where we have peace and
we come back to something thatis our natural state of being.
Speaker 2 (44:30):
I know this is a lesson.
I know I have to learn.
I've learned it over the yearsmore and more, but I'm still not
there.
The whole idea of acceptancethat's always been a struggle
for me is accepting things whereI'm like okay, I mean like you
in that canyon.
When I first watched the moviein whatever 2007, 2008,.
(44:52):
Whenever it came out, 2010,whatever I saw, I didn't see
acceptance.
I saw a man with an internalfight.
But then, when I watched itlast night so this is now 15
years later, whatever the timeframe is I've matured, I've
thought more.
I did see a man because I neverreally paid attention the first
time to you James Francoplaying, in this case, doing the
(45:16):
videos I didn't really make.
That didn't connect with me,but then it did.
Last night I was lying in bedwith my iPad watching it and I
thought this is a man right herewho just knows that this is the
end.
And I asked myself that samequestion that you mentioned
earlier what would I do in thiscase?
What would I say?
(45:37):
And so, in order to get to thatpoint, you almost have to have
an acceptance that this isprobably the end.
And if that's the case, what amI going to do, and the messages
you delivered to your family,to your sister, to your mom and
your dad, were I don't think youcan go there until you had that
acceptance.
You know, because we always wantto say, well, it might change.
It might change.
Well, that's good to have hope,but there are some things we
(46:00):
just have to accept.
You control what you cancontrol, you influence what you
can influence, and you acceptwhat you have to accept, and if
you can live life by that simplerule, it gets a lot easier.
Trust me, life is still notwhat I would call easy, but it's
a lot easier than it was 10, 15years ago for me, when I was
all about what can I control?
I don't want to accept anything, but you hit the nail on the
(46:20):
head.
When did you realize?
So I would think, though, aaron, that obviously, when you broke
free from the boulder, you feltfree.
Was there a moment when youknew that I'm going to live now?
Was it the helicopter, or didyou feel that way all the way
out of the canyon and when youhad to rappel down and you were
(46:42):
walking?
Speaker 3 (46:42):
towards your truck?
Was there a moment?
No, I was just committed to theprocess.
If I knew something, it wasthat the odds were stacked so
heavily against me that I wasnot going to make it all the way
home, that I was not going tohave the life that, that the
possibility of that waspropelling me, but there was.
(47:04):
There was, uh, much closer to acertainty that I was not going
to actually survive my escape.
Now, that said, by the time,yes, the helicopter arrives, it
gets me out of there.
I make it to the hospital.
I walk into the trauma room.
The anesthesiologist shows upwith this incredibly large
(47:26):
needle that my eyes made it looklike it was a battering ram and
the morphine goes in and, boom,fade to black.
But when I came out of that andwhat I didn't know is I'd been
transported to Grand Junction,colorado, from Moab, utah, that
I'd undergone 15 hours ofsurgery, had seven liters of
(47:46):
saline dripped into me toreplace the fluids in my body,
of saline, uh, dripped into meto replace the fluids in my body
.
That all of this and I come toand all I I know is that, wait a
minute, I, I'm in pain.
That means I must be alive.
And that was when I knew, okay,I'm here.
I might not be here for long,but i'm'm here.
(48:09):
And it was the same sentiment Ihad as I was escaping the
canyon.
Within about 45 minutes offreeing myself from the boulder,
I was down at the Big DropRepel and I lowered myself 65
feet down to the continuingcanyon, where it opened up out
of the slot canyon and it wasnow more of a box canyon 100
(48:31):
feet wide and hundreds of feetdeep.
Uh, that that was where I tookmy a selfie of standing there
with my amputated arm up behindmy shoulder and, uh, looking
into the camera, it was just tosay I'm still here and and so
much of the way it's that,that's enough, it's.
(48:51):
And I know you mentioned aboutthe role of hope and I, I, I
think we think about hope beinga good thing and yet I it.
Also, I think we have torecognize that it's the flip
side of fear, that it's aboutputting ourselves in a position
of thinking about a futureexperience that we, we are
afraid of having, or that wehope by having, but it's still
(49:13):
not this moment, and this momentis the I'm still here and
that's the declaration.
It's all we have and I'm yes, Ithink the nuance that you
described around acceptance andcontrol, and hope that all of
that is true, to let go ofcontrol where we're deluding
(49:35):
ourselves and yet still to exertour will as we can, to know
that, yes, acceptance of what isright now does not mean that we
don't have a role to play increating a future of what will
be that could be very differentthan what is right now.
(49:56):
There's certainly, I think,layers and perspective to take
there.
This, this idea that where,where, where I was was just
(50:17):
staying in that moment of movingmyself through, uh, without
knowing that I was going to live, knowing that I was going to
see that child, uh, I didn'thave that, knowing I just knew
one more step, aaron, one morestep, one more step, aaron, one
more step, one more step.
And then, as I'm in the hospitaland like I'm in pain, I must be
alive, okay, I'm alive.
(50:38):
And there then my mom walks inthe room and I, I'm alive, and
she holds my hand, and we'recrying, looking at each other
and sobbing, and that it's like,finally, through all these
tears, where I can say I loveyou, mom, I'm sorry, I love the
same things that I said on thetape.
But it's looking into her faceand her tears dropping down on
(51:00):
me.
She's squeezing my left hand sohard I thought I was going to
lose that hand too.
And she says it hadn't been abroken leg that's kept you out
in the desert all this time.
I hadn't been a broken leg.
That's kept you out the desertall this time.
I swore myself driving you youwere gonna have two broken legs
(51:21):
before I was done with you.
I'm just like, did I mention Ilove you?
I'm sorry, and how?
It's like it's all just in thatmoment that there was never and
and it was a good thing because,like, oh, I didn't know, uh,
but come to find out.
Yeah, I gave myself a boneinfection because of the
unsanitary tools and conditionsthat I was operating in.
I almost died from that in theweeks following the rescue.
(51:45):
So many surgeries and just thewhole miracles of science and
modern medicine that it took inorder for me to survive the
aftermath of my experience, notjust the experience itself, and
so that, yeah, I guess I keepcoming back to this idea that
there was never a knowing,there's never a guarantee.
(52:07):
You know, none of us know,we're going to walk out the door
.
You know anything can happen,and and so often so many things
do happen, so that it's just toto know that it's this moment,
it's the connections that wehave, it's it's not necessarily
a promise that there's anythingmore than this, and and yet we,
(52:30):
we can live within that presenceand know that that's.
Speaker 2 (52:38):
I agree with you on that.
When I do these podcasts sooften, I love them all and I've
enjoyed every single interview.
There are a few that I feellike were timed perfectly for me
, and this is one of those ones.
I needed to hear this today.
What right now?
(53:01):
So you've gone through this.
Now you have.
You have a 15 to 12 year oldchild.
You have a 15 year old son, 12year old daughter.
What is a win for you in life?
What would you say, is a thingthat you say okay, that's that,
that's a victory.
Speaker 3 (53:08):
Right now I feel great about that I mean
especially for having kind oflike a tweener, and it's the,
it's the little things of like.
When, when my daughter, like,comes around to my door to give
me a hug before she goes to theschool building, even though,
like, some of her friends arestill outside and can see her do
(53:29):
it, it's about my son, yeah,asking me to go and, like, throw
around the cross with him, eventhough, yeah, he could be
calling his friends to set uptime with them to go do it.
I look at it as those windsthat come along from the
(53:50):
relationships.
We talked about age and abouthealth, and I think one of the
gifts that my body is giving meright now is this maturity to
understand, whereas I would havetaken a health challenge as
something to overcome and tojust dig deeper and still go out
(54:13):
and do everything.
Now it's this gift and thislesson that there's times to
time to, there's times to slowdown, there's times to heal.
That, uh, you know it's, it'sfinding the, the victories in,
in something that otherwise canlook like oh, but it's.
You know, a younger version ofme would have said, but that's,
(54:34):
but that's defeat, like, that'sfailure.
That's not doing.
How is not doing a way of beingthat's better than doing, and
so there's a lot of wisdom.
I think that that can feel likea victory where, oh, I am
growing.
(54:55):
I'm not the same as I was fiveyears ago, 15, 22 years ago.
That's what looks like a win inmy life, and, of course, so much
of it comes back torelationships, about times even
where it's with my co-parentrelationships, and where I
(55:15):
remember to de-escalate ratherthan escalate, to where I
elevate the value of havingpeace over the value of holding
someone to account or getting myway or you know any of the
other things that can feel likea defense mechanism or a success
strategy until they're not,until you realize the
(55:37):
consequences of that, and thenyou say, oh no, there's
something that's more importantthan that for me or for my kids.
So, yeah, there's a lot ofthings that look like wins and
victories that I think,especially 10 years ago, I would
not have said that that'ssomething that I would not have
heard myself say the same thing.
Speaker 2 (55:57):
As you were talking about that.
That's what I was thinkingabout.
What would a win look like foryou 10 years ago?
Because I'm the same thing.
I, as you were talking aboutthat.
That's what I was.
I was thinking about where.
What would a win look like foryou 10 years ago?
Because I'm the same way, aaron, my, my wins.
I do it every morning.
Well, six mornings a week, I,when I get up one of my, I have
a really weird strict morningroutine for about an hour and a
half.
I don't veer monday throughsaturday and or I'm sorry, uh
(56:18):
sunday through friday.
I don't do sats, and one ofthem is I write down five things
that I'm grateful for at thatmoment Beautiful.
And right before I journal, andjust going back, if I went back
to the last three days of thisweek so far, I guess, yeah, the
third day.
One of them was my son and Ihiking on Friday or Saturday and
right in the middle of the hikeI was rocking.
(56:39):
He just turned around and gaveme the biggest bear hug and I'm
melting his arms.
I started tearing up or it wasmy.
One of them was my grandsongetting up and coming.
I'm staying with my daughterright now for a couple of weeks
and he came coming downstairs inthe morning at six, 30 or seven
o'clock and jumping on my lap,you know, wanting to watch
something on my iPad while hehas his breakfast in my arms and
(57:01):
, just, you know, curled up.
And it's those little thingsthat are wins now.
And 10, 15, 20, maybe 20 yearsago I don't know, that may not
have been.
You know, my wins were likelet's get.
I got to get more clients, Igot to get more speaking
engagements and those are alljust icing on the cake.
The cake is the little thingsthat, like you said, and it
always comes down torelationships.
(57:21):
I would say 90% of the thingsI'm grateful for.
Sometimes it's a warm cup ofcoffee in my hand or the birds
singing outside.
But you know they're all these.
Most of them are, like youwould see, seemingly minor
things that you might just gothrough life and they happen to
you, but you never take note ofthem until you actually stop and
think about them and showgratitude for them.
Speaker 3 (57:41):
The little things are the big things.
Speaker 1 (57:43):
They sure are.
Speaker 3 (57:45):
And I think, whether you're a parent or, yeah, as a
spouse, a partner, a leader,that reflection and
consideration of the importanceof connection and relationship,
that it boiled down to it I evensaid it on the video camera as
I was trapped and as I wasreflecting about the meaning of
(58:07):
life that I expressed that it'snot about what you do, aaron,
it's who you are, it's how yourelate, it's how you love it,
it's how you interact and thatis our legacy, that that is the
gift of our presence to others,that that's how our
consciousness, that's what we'rehere to manifest, to bring out,
(58:30):
and I think we all can at leastset a goal for ourselves to be
kind in that, to to be caring,to be compassionate, to be
empathetic, and that that's wow.
Like what a gift of adversity isthat it's not just that what
doesn't kill you makes youstronger, but it also has the
(58:51):
capacity to make you softer, sothat you can connect with others
through the traumas thatthey've had in their lives and
you can be there for one another.
That that that's as I've heardit said.
That's what we're here to do.
Is that we're all just walkingeach other home.
Speaker 2 (59:09):
Well, I'm going to share this with you before we
wrap up, aaron.
So right now I'm going througha fairly difficult emotional
time for the past month, andwhat I would typically do in
times like this it would andI've only gone through a handful
of these in my 58 years ofliving is I would typically feel
(59:31):
sorry for myself for a littlewhile.
I would kind of slack off alittle bit and just get lost in
the misery for a couple of weeks.
Well, this time I decided to gothe opposite approach.
I said I'm going to double downon finding happiness and
(59:51):
seeking happiness within me, andwhat that has done for me is
I've worked out harder.
I've eaten better.
I've eaten better, dramaticallycut my alcohol down.
I have been reading more,journaling more, more gratitude,
reaching out to people more andsaying, okay, I need help, you
know, or I could use yourguidance right now.
(01:00:13):
And I really think it's notjust coincidence that I'm
talking to you on this day and Iwant to share with you the
thing that you did, that energyyou sent to me today, was you
said something about I feel pain, so I must be alive.
I like that a lot, but the onewas I'm still here.
That's such a basic, simplestatement of all the worry that
(01:00:38):
we might have, or all the thingswe're thinking about in the
future or, you know, mistakes wemade in the past or even
problems that we're facingcurrently in the present.
I'm still here is such apowerful way to reframe the mind
to focus on that.
One most beautiful thing thatyou have right at any given
(01:00:59):
moment is that you're still here.
Speaker 3 (01:01:05):
So thank you for that .
I appreciate that I really do,and that's enough.
I think my overall thesis isthat, yes, we don't get to
control what happens to us, weget to choose how we respond.
That when the boulders arrive,we draw on the strength and the
power of the gifts of ourrelationships in order to find
our resilience to transformthose boulders, put that effort
(01:01:28):
in to make them into thegreatest blessings that we could
ever receive in our lives.
And along that journey it isenough to just still be here.
I'm glad that resonated for you, Wow that did.
Speaker 2 (01:01:44):
Well, I'll wrap up now.
I know you're a busy person.
You've got to go to lacrossehere in a little bit.
My son played lacrosse in highschool.
He's not playing his last yearof college because he's putting
a lot of time into his classesand graduating, but he played in
college as well for three years.
Oh awesome he was in attack.
Speaker 3 (01:02:02):
What did?
Speaker 2 (01:02:03):
he play, he played attack but now he played in
college.
He played midfield.
He played, he was a middie incollege.
So one of the greatest sports.
I coached it for five years,you know like youth lacrosse,
but I never played it.
We didn't have lacrosse growingup in my small town so I never
(01:02:28):
played it.
But all three of my step-sons,my bonus sons, played it in high
school.
One played it at the college,collegiate level.
Then my son did as well andthen my oldest bonus son was a
high school coach for a coupleof years in Grand Rapids,
michigan.
But family came, babies came,and now he's not coaching
anymore.
So it's been a part of my lifefor 20 some years, but never,
never, played it.
Even when I coached it Irefused to pick up a stick
because there's no way I cancatch that ball on the stick.
So I'm glad.
Speaker 3 (01:02:48):
I'm glad to hear it.
I mean, I just I, yeah, I feelmore connected with you through
that too, and it is anincredible game and also there's
a lot of incredible sports.
There's so many benefits tobeing a part of a team and to
having a passion like I'm sohappy for my son.
That's something that feelslike a win in that regard of
(01:03:11):
watching your child develop, tosee a passion take hold and to
know what passion has done forme in my life, where it's
compelled me to the greatestheights of experience, and so
I'm psyched.
I think that's something forany of us who are looking for
peak experiences or peakperformance that you know that
(01:03:34):
it comes from having thatpassion and that motivation.
Speaker 2 (01:03:37):
Amen.
Well, brother, I want to takethe time to thank you.
Thank you for taking thatexperience you had and really
you didn't just change your life, you've really impacted
millions of people you literallyhave through the book and the
movie, and the movie seemedpretty authentic and Les Stroud
(01:03:57):
from Survivorman said it was oneof the most authentic survival
movies of all time.
Speaker 3 (01:04:01):
Les Stroud from Survivorman said it was one of
the most authentic survivalmovies of all time.
Yeah, I appreciate that.
It was very authentic to myexperience too.
I wish I had gotten to goskinny dipping with Kate Mara.
That did not happen.
It's part of my experience, butmaybe next time I'll hold out
for that one.
Speaker 2 (01:04:17):
Is she the one that was on Schitt's Creek?
Speaker 3 (01:04:21):
Is she the one that was on Schitt's Creek.
I know that she was in House ofCards in the first couple
seasons there and has also donea bunch of other movies.
Amber Chamberlain, also a greatactor, playing Megan and
Christy, the two women that Iencountered early on that day in
the canyon.
(01:04:42):
And just as now, I take asecond to say it's fun because
every once in a while we getback in touch with each other.
I've been in touch with themhere in just the last week
because we're starting to workon the documentary for a
streaming platform that will beout next year or something like
(01:05:04):
that a year and a half and it'spulling all the folks from the
real experience to talk and tellour story of this for really
the first time, having everybodytogether to, yeah, get this, I
think, give this gift to evenmore people in the world who
(01:05:26):
need it, that when it comesacross, uh, someone's um, maybe,
maybe a time in their lifewhere they're experiencing
darkness, and to shine a beacon,to remind people that we are
connected, that we are so muchmore than that darkness, that
(01:05:46):
there's something that's shiningin us and that that's the
resilience and the love and thepower that we have to keep on
with our being here, so I hopethat it can do a great deal of
work still to come.
I've long known that this wasnot just for me or for my family
(01:06:10):
, but that this happened for allof us, as a reminder of what
we're capable of.
Speaker 2 (01:06:15):
Amen.
Speaker 1 (01:06:16):
Thank you, brother, I appreciate you you have been an
amazing guest, you too, brian.
Speaker 2 (01:06:21):
I really do.
This has been amazing for meand I know the audience is going
to connect.
I know we're going to talk fora few minutes after we're done
recording, but again, aaron,thank you for being such an
inspiring guest actually on theBamboo Lab podcast.
Speaker 3 (01:06:34):
Yeah, thank you, brian.
Speaker 2 (01:06:35):
Thank you for having me, of course, it's my honor.
Folks, I just want to say Iknow this is an episode that's
going to resonate so much for so, with so many, this is exactly
what the bamboo lab podcast isabout, probably the most, uh, I
would say, um symbolic.
Well, when I was looking tostart this podcast three and a
half years ago, this is exactlythe type of message I wanted
people to hear.
So, please, I'm going to askyou to please rate and review us
(01:06:57):
.
Uh, please share this episodewith three to five people, but,
more than anything, in the nextweek or two, before I talk to
you all again, please get outthere and strive to give your
best in everything you do.
Please show love and respect toothers and please show it back
to yourself and please live withpurpose and intention.
I appreciate every single oneof you listening today.
(01:07:19):
Until next time.
Hello and welcome to the Bamboo Lab Podcast with your
host, peak Performance Coach,brian Bosley.
Are you stuck on the hamsterwheel of life, spinning and
spinning but not really movingforward?
Are you ready to jump off andsoar?
Are you finally ready to sculptyour life?
If so, you've landed in theright place.
(00:21):
This podcast is created andbroadcast just for you, all of
you strivers, thrivers andsurvivors out there.
If you'd like to learn moreabout Brian and the Bamboo Lab,
feel free to reach out toexplore your true peak level at
wwwbamboolab3.com.
Speaker 2 (00:41):
Welcome everyone to this week's episode of the
Bamboo Lab Podcast.
As always, I'm your host, brianBosley.
Folks, I'm not going to give abig introduction or bio to this
guest that we have today, but Iwill give you a clue.
Back in 2003, in April of 2003,there was a young man he was 27
(01:03):
years old, was out doing a solodescent of Blue John Canyon in
Utah and something happened.
He slipped down this crevasseand a rock followed him down and
crushed his right arm.
He was stuck there for severaldays and what he had to do to
(01:25):
get to freedom and save his lifeis a story you'll never forget.
You may know him by his bookBetween a Rock and a Hard Place
amazing read.
We'll have a link to that onthe show notes today.
Or you may remember the moviestarring James Franco called 127
Hours.
Speaker 3 (01:43):
Enough hints Today we have Aaron Ralston on.
Aaron, my, my new friend,welcome to the bamboo lab
podcast.
Thank you so much, brian, Iappreciate it.
Uh, yeah, oftentimes I'm justsimply known as the guy that cut
his arm off.
So I, I, I I'm glad you gave alittle bit more context, okay
well, I do have to tell you thisa, aaron.
Speaker 2 (02:03):
My mom has never seen the movie.
My mom doesn't watch TV otherthan the three channels she has.
She's never read the book.
My mom is 90 years old.
She'll be listening to this.
She's the first listener ofevery show.
I was out hiking today and Icalled her and I actually spoke
to her through my whole hike andwe were talking about I have to
go back and do a podcast thisafternoon.
She goes who do you have?
(02:23):
And I told her and I didn'ttell her about the arm part
until I told her your story andyou were hiking and you're
climbing these mountains becauseI hike a lot and I said you
know how he got free, mom, shegoes.
No, I said he cut his arm offand she went oh my God, she
couldn't, she was just, she wasflabbergasted.
So what do you think she saidto me Brian, you make sure
(02:45):
you're careful when you're outhiking.
I'm like I'm not hiking Utahman and I'm not going down in
caves and canyons.
Speaker 3 (02:53):
But that is a good lesson.
Let your mom know where you'regoing.
Be careful, watch out forfalling rocks.
Carry a sharp knife.
Speaker 2 (03:00):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (03:01):
Cover the bases here.
Good job, mom.
Yeah, the basis here, you knowgood job, mom.
Speaker 2 (03:03):
Until I watched the movie again last night for the
second time, aaron, I didn'trealize then that the um, the um
, the yeah, their multi-purposetool you had was actually a
cheap one so cheap.
Speaker 3 (03:17):
It was free actually.
Yes, technically with aflashlight.
That's amazing.
When I go out with friends andthere's an opportunity, we need
a knife or something.
Sorry guys, famously I onlycarry doll pocket knives, so I'm
no use here.
We need to cut the salami andcheese for lunch.
Speaker 2 (03:43):
That one you could probably handle with that knife.
Speaker 3 (03:47):
I don't know, it was not much better than the handle
end of a spoon.
Really that's amazing, but itdid get the job done.
I'll say after six days.
Speaker 2 (03:59):
After six Do you still have that knife?
Speaker 3 (04:01):
I do.
Actually, I'm looking at itright across my office, are you
really?
I have a little, you know,museum including yeah, that tool
, uh, it's uh.
Yeah, it was not the one that Iwould take, but it happened to
be the one I had in my um, in myglove box, and I love the sort
of the metaphor of that.
You know that you say, you, yougo to battle with the army.
You have not the army you wantto, so sometimes you find
(04:22):
yourself, you know, cutting yourarm off with the army.
you have not the army you want.
So sometimes you find yourself,you know, cutting your arm off
with the tool you have not thetool you want, but it's how life
goes sometimes.
Speaker 2 (04:33):
That right.
There is a great lesson foranybody.
I think, going through anyproblem you have right now in
life, it doesn't matter what itis.
You know because I think sooften, aaron, when we're going
through a problem, you knowobviously not as egregious as
yours most often, but anyemotional, financial, health
problem, relationship problem,it's like we're looking for all
these other tools or looking formore help.
(04:53):
But sometimes you just have tofight with what you have and you
know and make the best of it,which you clearly did.
Speaker 3 (04:59):
It's the best way to create peace, to find presence
in life.
It's the best way to createpeace, to find presence in life.
It's about being in this verymoment, not in some other moment
that you wish you were, whereyou had more or less or less.
You're just here with it, and Ithink it is really solid advice
(05:23):
, especially because that's whatwe're made of, jumping already
into the metaphysics of it all,but it's really, in the end,
about our presence in thisexperience as human beings, that
we don't always get to knoweverything we'd like to know
before we have to make a choiceor a decision.
(05:44):
Get to know everything we'dlike to know before we have to
make a choice or a decision.
We we don't always get to haveall the resources that we prefer
to have, and yet we still arein this, and so to give
ourselves the grace with thatand also to find the courage to
take bold action, because that'sthat's really where the genius
and the magic of life comes to.
It's still about taking thatleap making, as it were.
(06:06):
For me, making that cut and notknowing, but committing to a
process rather than an outcome.
Speaker 2 (06:13):
Oh, I love it.
Well, we're going to get intoall what you've learned, because
I'm so curious to see whereyou've come from, that
27-year-old man to now.
Next in October, going to bejoining the 50-year-old men club
here.
We'll get into that in a minute.
Can you tell all of us a littlebit about who you are, your
childhood, where you grew up,aaron?
A little bit about your family,or maybe was there any one
(06:34):
person that inspired you growingup?
Speaker 3 (06:39):
So a little bit about your background.
Yeah, for sure, I mean I knowyou're based in the Midwest.
I grew up in Ohio and Indiana.
I was know you're based inmidwest, I grew up in ohio and
indiana, that I was born out ina rural farmstead, I mean after
we came home from the hospital.
But uh yeah, I grew upsurrounded by cornfields and
soybeans and, uh yeah, cows, andthat was my dad's industry.
(07:01):
That eventually brought us toindiana with the cattlemen's
Association and then to Coloradowith the Sheep Industry
Association and I was 11 yearsold, moving to the west in the
Rocky Mountains and my family.
We started going out onvacations to the national parks
and exploring all these grandlandscapes and getting into the
(07:22):
sports and activities as onedoes out here.
It's kind of the amenitieslifestyle that I still
appreciate and pursue today.
It was skiing.
It then got into hiking andrafting and just all the
exploring, and both theexploring of of the mountains
but also the exploring thathappens internally, which became
(07:45):
more of the quest for me as Iwent through my adolescence and
had my challenges.
It was among the first bouldersin my life as I make this
metaphor about the rock, ofcourse, that befell me in Bluzon
Canyon but that I was a kid whohad come to a new state, a new
(08:06):
school, didn't have friends andrelations here, that it was
exacerbated by me being anaccelerated kid and gifted and
talented like I skipped a gradeand so I was the smallest and
youngest kid in the whole schooland that didn't go great for me
(08:26):
back in an era before we hadanti-bullying programs and
inclusivity programs and all therest of it like my kids get to
enjoy today.
But it then fell to my ego andself-esteem project to find a
way where I could build myselfup in the midst of the feeling
from others that I was less thanor not enough, and I think it's
(09:00):
a pretty universal experiencewhen we have those suspicions or
fears that we aren defensemechanisms.
Even that part of it was toinclude the proof to others that
I was enough, that I wascapable, especially in then
areas outside of academics.
(09:22):
And of course you can see howthis leads to the explorations,
the adventuring and trying to benot just enough but even better
and to then do things.
And I set about a project in myearly 20s where I decided I was
(09:43):
going to try to become the firstperson to ever climb all the
highest mountains that we havein Colorado in the wintertime,
solo, which was something thathad never been done before.
And if you think for a momentabout why that might be it had
never been done before, it'sbecause it was stupid, dangerous
, just on the ridiculous levelof extreme.
And yet I embarked on that andsurvived my learning curve along
(10:08):
the way through many, manyadversities, which taught me a
great deal about myself that Iwas someone who was capable,
that I I could do things, thatthat seemed impossible, and in
the midst of that I was aboutthree-fourths of the way through
that project of all thesealmost 60 mountains that we have
, that rise about 14,000 feetabove sea level, that I quit my
(10:32):
career as a mechanical engineerand decided to move to Aspen in
Colorado, where I was workingwhile mountain shop.
And then, in the off-season ofmy winter solo project, I found
myself out on a walk in the parkin Blue John Canyon.
So I was a very experiencedoutdoorsman by that point and
(10:54):
definitely overlooked some ofthe potential consequences of my
choices that day.
I made choices to go by myself,as I often did, but in this
instance I didn't leave anitinerary.
No one knew what state I was in.
So I was out in the middle ofthat hike and when fate would
deliver me a very interestinganswer to a question that I'd
(11:19):
long asked, which was who wouldI be?
What would I do if my life wereon the line?
well, that question was answeredyeah, if we have doubts, if we
have those kinds of curiositiesin our lives like am I good
(11:39):
enough, am I, am I worthy that?
What would I do?
I've been inspired by otherstories of adventuresurers,
misadventurers, people who hadfound themselves on the very
edge of experience of survival,and people who found something
in themselves and I wonderedwhat's inside of me.
(12:01):
Now, that was not on theforefront of my mind as I was
descending that canyon that day.
I was just out for a good time.
I was celebrating a successfulwinter of climbing and it was
for me to take like spring break.
Winter was over.
It was now the end of april.
(12:22):
It was 80 degrees out in thedesert.
Uh, just gorgeous bluebird days,beautiful sandstone slot
canyons not the grand canyon,these are micro canyons, almost
in, in the sense that they mightonly be as wide as your
shoulders and maybe five to tenstories deep and that you're
descending down.
(12:43):
There can be drop-offs, rappels, the down climbs and it's uh,
it's largely, especially in acanyon.
That's been been documented.
It's, it's, uh, an adventure,but you still mostly know what's
coming.
And, yeah, I I was not at allput off by the idea that, okay,
(13:07):
I'm going down through thissection by myself, uh, that
there might be risks, um, that Icouldn't get myself through.
Now.
That was all withoutanticipating, of course, that
the exact circumstance thatbefell me maybe a one in a
million kind of situation butthat I dislodged a rock that I
was climbing down off of, thatwas stuck between the walls of
(13:32):
the Canyon, kind of an obstacleat the edge of a drop off, and I
was using it to continue mydescent.
And when I was dangling from itat full extension, as if I just
slam dunked a basketball off thebackside of it, that I torqued
that boulder free from itsmoorings where it was wedged,
(13:55):
and I was falling then in thebottom of the canyon, the rock
was falling from my head andjust in a split second, as I put
my arms up above my skull totry to protect myself, push
myself out from under the rock,I was successful in that, but of
course I would expose my hands.
And as the boulder ricochetedbetween the walls, it smashed my
(14:18):
left hand just for a splitsecond.
It rebounded, smashed my righthand against the right wall of
the canyon, it it bounced oncemore and in that split second,
now my hand slipped in betweenthe boulder and the wall even
further, as then the wallstapered down in this
constriction right in front ofmy chest, where the boulder
(14:40):
became wedged as it had been,but about seven feet lower down
right in front of me, as I'mstanding in this narrow defile
in the canyon bottom, and my armwas now disappearing, crushed
into this possibly small shadowbetween the boulder and the wall
of the canyon.
Speaker 2 (14:59):
Okay, I've got a question for you.
As we talk on here about somuch about human behavior and
peak performance in the humanmind, what is the first thought
that happens?
What's the first thing thatgoes through your head when you
look and see your hand and yourarm trapped?
Speaker 3 (15:17):
There was a moment, before I even felt the sensation
of it, where it was just ashock of disbelief of not not
being able to understand andcomprehend Like it looked, like
my arm had been swallowed by theboulder and the wall that that
somehow I just like plugged myarm up to like where you would
(15:41):
wear a wristwatch into.
This it was.
It was a gap of about a half aninch, like the width of my
pinky finger, as opposed tothree or three and a half inches
wide that your wrist is there.
So it was just theimpossibility, the visual
impossibility of what I wasseeing.
And then, of course, there's amicro delay of the time it takes
(16:08):
for the sensation to travelfrom your nerves all the way up
to your brain and boom, now thepain, something I've never
experienced before.
And that was where, of course,the next micro delay is the
adrenaline rush that comes out,where I am filled up with the
(16:29):
fury of rage of energy, tryingto harness it, as I had some
cognition that, okay, this isactually an opportunity here,
use all that brute force to tryto lift the rock, try to rip my
arm free.
I mean, I was punching theboulder, I was cursing at it
like I could just offend it intoletting me go, uh.
(16:52):
But it was very clear, eventhough this, this rage lasted
for over 45 minutes, that I wasnot going to brute force my way
through this.
I was going to have toeventually, and and I did, after
taking a lot of deep breaths, Iwas able to use what I now see
in hindsight, as a rubric tomanage crisis, which is this
(17:16):
STOP acronym, the S-T-O-P tostop, take a breath to T.
Think my way through this, asopposed to trying to brute force
my way through it, that I mightbe able to, uh, oh, make some
observations and come up withsome options and p decide on a
plan that I would, I could usesome of that mechanical
engineering background that Ihad, that I would be able to
(17:39):
problem solve like rationally,use some of the tools that are
in my brain, as opposed to justthe strength that's in my
muscles to, yeah, get myself outof this predicament that I
found myself in.
Speaker 2 (17:53):
Okay, I got so many questions to ask you.
The one question I have for youand this is a big one, so the
one question I ask everybodyquite frankly and I'm not going
to ask you is what is the one ofthe biggest obstacles you've
ever had to come over?
What is the one of the biggestchallenges you've ever had in
your life?
Let's forego that questiontoday more universal.
Speaker 3 (18:28):
I'm interjecting here , but I do think, to humanize me
, that I'm not just thischaracter from this esoteric
story, but that I've gonethrough, like I mentioned,
bullying and being ostracized bymy peers in my adolescence, of
course, financial hardships,hardships at times where,
cumulatively, my debt farexceeded by orders of magnitude
(18:48):
my checkbook balances and myincome even.
There have been plenty of timeswhere my health has been a huge
issue, especially, as youmentioned, I'm rolling towards
50 that one body part after thenext seems to come up with a new
(19:09):
boulder.
In my life I've been throughdivorce.
I've been through child custodylitigation.
I've had the challenges thatcome with having two kids, as
well as the fact that they'rewith two different moms, and
sometimes co-parenting scenariosthat aren't the most copacetic.
The health of my parents Sixyears ago my dad was diagnosed
(19:33):
with pancreatic cancer and aftersix months he passed away.
All of these things in my life.
I've dealt with depression andanxiety.
There are so many of theseobstacles, of boulders, and so,
without getting down about it, Ihave to remind myself, just as
I did with the boulder and thecanyon is that these things
(19:54):
arrive for us in our lives for areason, and we get to choose.
The reason that's kind of thegood news about it is that we
get to decide what is this herefor me to do.
It is that we get to decidewhat is this here for me to do,
and when we intentionally createmeaning around an adversity,
that's how we can turn it intoan advantage.
It's a process that starts withfirst discerning this is not
(20:17):
just a boulder, a burden, butrather I can make it into a
blessing.
Yeah, it takes a whole lot ofwork and that intention, that
determination takes entire,maybe years, of time and process
in order to bring that tofruition.
But it starts with the seed.
And that first question is whyis this here for me and what am
(20:39):
I going to do with it?
Speaker 2 (20:41):
Okay, I want to just interject for a minute here too,
aaron, because I think there'san audience member out there
right now whose mouth is agape,and I'm talking directly to that
member, that subscriber, thatlistener.
You've watched the movie.
Perhaps you've read the book.
You know Aaron's story.
I mean, the movie was anamazing hit.
(21:02):
The book does fantastic.
The movie was an amazing hit,the book does fantastic.
Great read, by the way, foreverybody.
But yet you just heard Aaron,who you might have saw on the
Howard Stern show.
You might have seen his skint,his little cameo on the Simpsons
.
This guy's been, I think,interviewed by David Letterman,
if I'm not mistaken, aaron, yeah, a couple times.
Speaker 3 (21:27):
I mean that is such a fun thing, like you know,
growing up like idolizing him,being a Midwesterner, and I'm
like, oh my goodness, I'm likesitting here, yeah, getting to
crack him up Like what fun I'vehad with all this.
Speaker 2 (21:40):
Well.
I think, yeah, I think thelesson here is for that listener
out there.
You also heard Aaron say healso has struggles too.
Personally, just like you do,just like I do.
We all have had financialstruggles.
Perhaps you know I've gonethrough custody battles.
Twice in my life.
I went through a divorce.
Many people have health issues,have lost their parents, go
(22:00):
through so many people, havefaced depression and anxiety.
This is not just the challengesand adversity you face.
These are universal challengesand adversities and when you
have a gentleman like Aaron onhere talking about how he still
faces these things at times, weall do.
But the idea is thoseadversities there, they arrive
(22:21):
for a reason and we get tochoose the reason.
I love that.
I love that what you said, andyou have to find meaning around
and why did it happen,potentially, and what am I going
to do with it?
I mean, that's probably the twogreatest or the greatest lesson
I've heard in 150 some episodesfor anybody, which means all of
us who are going through, havegone through or will grow
(22:42):
through some type of adversity.
So I appreciate that.
I think that was perfect thatwas a nugget right there that we
get to hear from somebody whoactually went through something
very challenging and traumaticat one time in his life.
What 22 years ago, aaron?
Yeah, 22 years ago, past April,right?
Speaker 3 (23:00):
Exactly, yeah, and I marked that anniversary because
it was this time where I wasgiven the greatest gifts that
I've ever receivedating my arm.
And to skip ahead a little bitto say that, in the end, even
(23:28):
the act of amputation was one ofthese incredibly powerful gifts
that I received from thatexperience, because I was
smiling as I'm going throughthat ostensibly horrific act to
be cutting through my arm and,yes, it made the sensation that
(23:48):
I felt being trapped by theboulder now feel like a zero on
a new scale of 10, that that wasthis incredible euphoria, also
because of what I was doing toget myself out of there, to give
myself a chance to take a stepout of what became my grave and
back into my life again.
(24:09):
That that is again thepotential that boulders have
within them.
And there's a lineShakespearean that nothing is
good or bad so much as what wethink of it.
Nothing is good or bad so muchas what we think of it, and
that's the idea that our minds,the choices we make, are our
(24:31):
power and they are the mostpowerful tool that we have when
it comes to facing our lives.
It's the meaning we put behindsomething, the meaning we put
behind something.
So for me to look back and beable to say on day two, when I
was out of options to get myselffree, that I knew that I
(24:51):
couldn't cut my arm off becauseI wouldn't even survive making
it back to my truck, let alonedriving out of the desert, I'm
like why did I have to buy astick shift, that I've got all
of these options that havefailed to get me out?
I can't carve through the rock.
I can't lift the boulder, evenwith all the mechanical
advantage systems that I'vebuilt with my ropes.
I can't wait for help.
(25:13):
No one's coming because no oneknows where I was.
All of it means that I'm goingto die here.
But what do I do in that momentthat the boulder gives me is to
understand.
I can get my camera out and Ican say goodbye, and I talk
about that as a gift, becausewhat it did was.
It connected me with what wasreally important in my life, at
(25:34):
a time when I mean, could you bemore isolated in the, in the
universe?
I don't know, maybe here'sthose of all the teen astronauts
standing on the back side ofthe moon that eventually made
their way home, but like to beout in this most remote desert,
in the bottom of a hole, whereno one's going to find me until
I'm a skeleton, and yet to beable to turn on my camera, look
through that video camera's lensand then connect with my loved
(25:58):
ones my mom, my dad, my sister,all my extended family, my
closest friends, and be able tosay these incredibly important
things I love you.
I'm sorry that I'm leaving you.
Thank you for everything thatyou've given me in my life, that
those words, those connections,that that brought me into this
(26:20):
place of being filled up withlove.
And there was no room fordespair, because I just felt
gratitude.
That was an incredible gift tome and I've used it many times
in my life since then,intentionally, because I learned
that lesson you cannotsimultaneously hold profound
despair and profound gratitudein your heart at the same time.
(26:43):
They displace one another andyou practice gratitude, you say
thank you, you go over the it'slike a thanksgiving time and to
understand what it is thatyou've been blessed with and
that that, to me, picked me up.
It gave me the strength, thecourage, the determination, the
(27:04):
perseverance, the resilience,everything that I was, and it
was there for me because of thatrock showing me what was what
was truly important in my life.
It was not a list of myachievements and accomplishments
that went on to that videocamera.
It was a will and testament, ina way, but the primary service
that it gave me was the abilityto know that my loved ones would
(27:29):
be on the other side of thatlens watching that, even if it
were after my death.
But that that's what showed mewhat I had to hold on to and
what would fuel me over thosecoming days.
It certainly wasn't just a fewcups of water that I had in one
of my Nalgene bottles by thatpoint.
It wasn't the little bit of mytwo convenience store burritos
(27:52):
that I had left in my foodsupply by the time I became
trapped.
It wasn't the inadequateclothing.
It didn't even have a jacketfor the 40 degree, 38 degree, 36
degree nights that I'd beshivering through.
What was going to keep me goingwas this connection to what was
important in my life, and whatI learned was that it's it's
(28:14):
loving relationships.
Speaker 2 (28:16):
Amen to that.
Thank you for saying that.
Do you think, aaron, if youwouldn't have had that little
video camera with you, whatwould that have changed for you?
Speaker 3 (28:26):
I think I would have found another way to have
achieved the same, I guess,process.
Maybe.
Maybe I would have taken myknife and started etching a
letter to my loved ones into thewall of the canyon Maybe I had
(28:49):
some paper with me that I couldhave figured out how to write
something to them or have simplytaken pictures on my other
camera.
I would have figured, beenthrough the prayers, that I,
that I also I used that as atool to connect myself with
(29:15):
greater energies in the universe, and that that I think that
could have sufficed as well.
It's something that we are, weare these energies, and we
forget on our daily experiencethat this tends to be fairly
superficial those moments whenwe can take a pause and remember
(29:39):
to breathe and to connect withour presence and to come back to
something that's really rootedand grounded in in the spiritual
reality of our, of ourexistence here.
And yet, you know, we we forgetto do that or we get caught up
in myself, I'm not immune tothat, but those kind of
(30:02):
communications that happenenergetically, let's say, rather
more than physically, thatthat's, that's no less real.
And I, I had experiences whileI was trapped of seeing my mom,
uh, and hearing her and wouldcome to find out, talking with
(30:23):
her afterwards, that, yes, I wassitting on those stairs in our
house and I was telling you thewhole long that we were coming
for you, that that I mean, itwas almost telepathic, like that
, you know something, somethingbeyond.
What I would say is like, oh,yeah, I, I believe in psychics,
I believe, like, yeah, I'm.
(30:44):
I think I find myself more onthe skeptical side of things,
like I'd like to have some proofthat that exists.
And yet, yeah, that was, in away, it was a personal
experience that does provideproof that we are connected in
ways that we don't always seeuntil enough gets stripped away
(31:07):
and out of our superficial levelexperience to that we see
something greater that'sunderneath it.
That in the end, before I wentthrough the final night of my
entrapment, when I'd written myepitaph into the wall of the
Canyon, I said my final goodbyeson the video camera that I had
(31:29):
an experience and had a bodyexperience where I was in a
living room and I saw what Iknew to be my future son and he
came running over me.
I scooped him up, I was dancingwith him, this little blonde
haired little boy, about threeand a half years old in that
moment, wouldn't be born forseven years from now, but at
this day here he's 15 and a half.
(31:51):
He's upstairs doing his onlineacademy.
We're going to go play lacrosselater in the afternoon.
That he is a little boy who cameto me and showed me that I was
going to have a life after thecamp and that I I have never had
a more mystical experience inmy life, that something that
showed me very clearly, uh, howwe are connected in love through
(32:14):
, like, across time, acrossdistance.
That it's, um, you know, the,the wormholes of our, of our
spiritualities that bring us tobe everywhere and anywhere, and
and that's, that's, and that'ssomething that served me.
(32:35):
And also today I can sit withand know our mortality, even
with my dad being now on theother side of this, that we all
come from some great pool ofconsciousness into this
experience and then we go backto it and that pulsing, that
breathing of our lives.
(32:56):
It brings me peace to know thatand to be comfortable with it.
So, again, more gifts from thiscanyon, from this builder.
Speaker 2 (33:08):
Well, that's the question I would have for you.
You were a mechanical engineer,obviously.
You went to Carnegie CarnegieMellon, I think.
You went to CMU, yep.
So I went to the other CMUcentral Michigan university, and
in Mount Pleasant, michigan,and we'd go on.
I played rugby in college sowe'd go on rugby tournaments and
our jackets always said CMUrugby.
And at tournaments, anyway, wehad so many people, oh you're
(33:30):
from CMU, yeah, yeah, and they'dstart talking.
I'm like I don't think we'retalking about the same CMU here.
They were talking aboutCarnegie Mellon a lot.
And we, obviously we have CMU.
I don't think we ever playedCarnegie Mellon in a game, I
don't recall, but that wouldhave been pretty cool.
Yeah, we didn't have a rugbyteam, so your son plays lacrosse
.
What position.
Speaker 3 (33:50):
Yeah, he's an attack.
I played lacrosse in college.
That was my travel thing.
I was also in the marching band.
Okay so we would travelsometimes to support the
football team Very goofy, sillyexperiences with all of that.
But yeah, he's found hispassion with all of that.
(34:14):
But yeah, he's found hispassion and it's something I, I
just adore for him that at thispoint his sister plays lacrosse
too.
She's just about to turn 12 now, uh, so they're three and a
half years apart, but that's,you know, anything he's doing,
she's got to be in and doing ittoo.
We, we go skiing and there'sbackpacking.
She's's in scouts.
So we were just up in themountains a weekend ago and
waiting out in the lakes andhiking cross country through
(34:38):
wildflower fields and jumping,doing jumping photos up on the
Continental Divide.
Just so many amazingexperiences with my kids that
have come true because of thatconnection that I first touched
on when I was.
I was in those moments when itwas, I thought I'd even etched
into the canyon, uh, the deathdate of April 2003.
(35:02):
And then, as I had thisexperience with my future son,
and at midnight the clock rolledover and all of a sudden it was
no longer april 30th but it wasmay 1st, and I even had to
decide whether or not to scratchout april and carve into the
wall may, because my epitaph isoutdated now and and yet it was
(35:25):
just the clarity, like, okay,that doesn't matter.
But what I did know, know, whatdid matter was that I was going
to see the other side of thisexperience in the canyon.
And again, what gifts that thatboulder gave me to understand
the power of love, of theseconnective energies in the
(35:47):
universe that I would getthrough.
And so in the end, that finaldawn gave way and I saw the
sunrise that I said I wasn'tgoing to see because of this
vision of this little boy, thatI was then so sure I was going
to get home to someday to seehim.
And that's how, in the finalmoments I can say I was smiling
(36:08):
as the idea comes to me that Idon't have to use the knife to
try to cut through the bones inmy arm.
I can use the boulder and howit was holding me to gain
leverage and bend bone in my armenough to break it as it snaps
in its cap gun kind of starterpistol.
The sound effect is crack in thecanyon.
(36:30):
And yet this smile gets evenbigger because I know I've
solved it.
I'm gonna do this, I'm gonnaget out of here, I'm gonna get
home, I'm gonna hug for my mom,I'm gonna see that little boy.
And, and I still recall how,all of a sudden, this, this
ecstasy, resolved into theunderstanding of oh, wait a
minute, there's another bonethere.
Oh, and so that, do it again.
(36:53):
And that's a crack that hadbroken the same spot, and this
mechanical you know, engineer,as we mentioned that that mind
took over and it was just okay.
What's next?
How do we overcome that?
Put the tourniquet on, keepcutting.
There's the nerve.
Yep, this is just going tohappen now.
And and yet, as I sucked in mybreath, as I severed that nerve
(37:20):
and I resolved, as I exhaled andI was smiling, the biggest
smile I've ever smiled in mylife.
I was getting through this, Iwas going to finish it and I had
to stretch my arm you stretchfabric in order to cut through
it, put a little tension thereand then that tension released,
I stepped out of my grave andinto my life again and the smile
(37:42):
was.
I felt the pain there, but itwas the possibility that was far
more important, the possibilityof everything in my life coming
back to me, that I had thechance now.
Maybe it was aone-in-a-thousand chance, but
(38:04):
that it was still a possibilitythat I was going to be able to
get out of there.
I did everything I had set outin my mind.
I know which direction.
I'm not going to head back tomy bike.
I'm going to be able to get outof there.
I did everything I had set outin my mind.
I know which direction.
I'm not going to head back tomy bike.
I'm going to head for my truck,continue down canyon.
Maybe I come across water.
I'm going to get to the bigdrop propel.
I bring my rope along.
I've got my arms slung and thentourniqueted to my just doing
(38:27):
the basic first aid that I could.
Speaker 2 (38:38):
Along the way, though , I even stopped and I took a
photo before I left the boulder,and I said thank you out loud
in that moment.
Speaker 3 (38:44):
You have to have that picture framed somewhere, don't
you?
It's definitely.
What I actually have is areplica fiberglass model of the
boulder sitting here in myoffice that I'm looking at as
well from the film set fromModern 27 Hours.
It's got James Franco's bloodon it Because, yeah, the
(39:06):
gratitude I have for that rock,it showed me what was important
to me in my life, what waspossible for me in my life, what
was extraordinary about beingalive and all of that.
That's this gift and, again,the choice I made to say, yeah,
I walked out of that place but Ididn't leave.
I didn't lose anything.
(39:28):
I left something behind, but Ionly gained from that.
This is the choice that I made.
This was not horrific, butrather the best thing that's
ever happened for me.
And yeah, it was far from over.
I did, on my way out, hike foralmost five and a half hours.
I covered six and a half milesof ground.
(39:49):
I run out of water that I foundat the bottom of the big drop
rappel.
I I'd been moving, juststaggering my my way, but I lost
over two liters of blood duringthat time.
I hadn't slept in six days, sojust the exhaustion.
I'd lost over 40 pounds.
I had just nothing left.
(40:11):
And yet, as I come to the momentwhere I'm having a heart attack
, from my body shutting down andthere not being enough blood to
pump in my system to get oxygento my brain, boom, it's
happening.
And what I realized is the roarthat is building in my chest,
(40:32):
that is somehow expandingoutside of my body, and I look
up and there's a helicopter thatpasses by and circles around
lands and plucks me out of theequation of that connection and
love that I had had with myfamily through the video cameras
(40:55):
that this was my mom'sprojection of manifestation of
her love, as she had figured outhow to motivate, search and
rescue to go find me, not evenknowing what state I was in.
But they tracked me down andplucked me out of that canyon
when I had minutes left to live.
Tracked me down and plucked meout of that canyon when I had
minutes left to live in.
That helicopter had minutes offuel left in this miraculous
(41:16):
synchronicity that gets me to ahospital before the helicopter
crashes or it bleeds to deathand I I'm here because of that
miracle.
That's that's to me.
The other side of this is thatit's it's these again, these big
energies that are out in theuniverse and how, how they?
(41:36):
You know we were these littleparticles that ping around,
bounce off each other and thatwe're connected through these
fields of force.
That that, yeah right, that'show miracles happen it is.
Speaker 2 (41:51):
You know, you would have told me this 15 years ago I
was the biggest skeptic ofmanifestation or energy, and
then I realized, probably 12years ago, that this is.
I based my whole life on it.
Now that it's now, you knowthere's so much science behind
it I mean, it's not psychobabble, bullcrap.
There's science behind this aswell, that we are, just, we're
(42:13):
energy, and energy really neverdies.
It just goes from one form tothe other and we can pass energy
.
Every time we communicate, youand I are passing energy on with
each other and we're there forit to the audience when this
goes live.
So people don't understand that.
They understand Wi-Fi signals,telephone signals, radio signals
, but they don't realize we giveoff signals so often and I
(42:35):
think there's nothing morepowerful than that now.
So I went from a completeatheist on these ideas to a
complete believer of just energybeing the sole controlling
force of our universe.
Speaker 3 (42:47):
Yeah, I mean, the nice thing is that it's like it
doesn't require you to believefor it to be true either Right
Facts and science just are, andso you can choose to, I think,
leverage it and use it and beaware of it, and that's I think
it's a beautiful thing.
It is, it is my experience andcertainly feels how I'm, why and
(43:12):
how I'm here, and so I'm glad,I'm glad to hear, yeah, that
that resonates for you and Ihope that it does, yeah, for the
listeners here too.
It's, it's something that's somuch bigger than us and that we,
yeah, we have free will, wehave choices to make, and also
that it's, it's a beautifulthing that it's not just up to
(43:34):
us either, and that that wassomething that brought me great
peace.
Uh, and I want to share this onthat line of thought, is that,
as I came to accept my situationand in my entrapment, and as it
applies to just about any otherBoulder that I meet in my
entrapment, and as it applies tojust about any other boulder
that I I meet in my life today,that that acceptance is where we
(43:57):
can come back to the peace thatwe have in our lives.
That it's when we resist.
What is when we resist the thewill of the universe, when we
resist the, the power of theenergies that are around us,
that that's where we createdissonance in our lives and
agitation, even inflammation.
It's something where, when wecan align ourselves with what is
(44:20):
with the will of the universe,that's where we have peace and
we come back to something thatis our natural state of being.
Speaker 2 (44:30):
I know this is a lesson.
I know I have to learn.
I've learned it over the yearsmore and more, but I'm still not
there.
The whole idea of acceptancethat's always been a struggle
for me is accepting things whereI'm like okay, I mean like you
in that canyon.
When I first watched the moviein whatever 2007, 2008,.
(44:52):
Whenever it came out, 2010,whatever I saw, I didn't see
acceptance.
I saw a man with an internalfight.
But then, when I watched itlast night so this is now 15
years later, whatever the timeframe is I've matured, I've
thought more.
I did see a man because I neverreally paid attention the first
time to you James Francoplaying, in this case, doing the
(45:16):
videos I didn't really make.
That didn't connect with me,but then it did.
Last night I was lying in bedwith my iPad watching it and I
thought this is a man right herewho just knows that this is the
end.
And I asked myself that samequestion that you mentioned
earlier what would I do in thiscase?
What would I say?
(45:37):
And so, in order to get to thatpoint, you almost have to have
an acceptance that this isprobably the end.
And if that's the case, what amI going to do, and the messages
you delivered to your family,to your sister, to your mom and
your dad, were I don't think youcan go there until you had that
acceptance.
You know, because we always wantto say, well, it might change.
It might change.
Well, that's good to have hope,but there are some things we
(46:00):
just have to accept.
You control what you cancontrol, you influence what you
can influence, and you acceptwhat you have to accept, and if
you can live life by that simplerule, it gets a lot easier.
Trust me, life is still notwhat I would call easy, but it's
a lot easier than it was 10, 15years ago for me, when I was
all about what can I control?
I don't want to accept anything, but you hit the nail on the
(46:20):
head.
When did you realize?
So I would think, though, aaron, that obviously, when you broke
free from the boulder, you feltfree.
Was there a moment when youknew that I'm going to live now?
Was it the helicopter, or didyou feel that way all the way
out of the canyon and when youhad to rappel down and you were
(46:42):
walking?
Speaker 3 (46:42):
towards your truck?
Was there a moment?
No, I was just committed to theprocess.
If I knew something, it wasthat the odds were stacked so
heavily against me that I wasnot going to make it all the way
home, that I was not going tohave the life that, that the
possibility of that waspropelling me, but there was.
(47:04):
There was, uh, much closer to acertainty that I was not going
to actually survive my escape.
Now, that said, by the time,yes, the helicopter arrives, it
gets me out of there.
I make it to the hospital.
I walk into the trauma room.
The anesthesiologist shows upwith this incredibly large
(47:26):
needle that my eyes made it looklike it was a battering ram and
the morphine goes in and, boom,fade to black.
But when I came out of that andwhat I didn't know is I'd been
transported to Grand Junction,colorado, from Moab, utah, that
I'd undergone 15 hours ofsurgery, had seven liters of
(47:46):
saline dripped into me toreplace the fluids in my body,
of saline, uh, dripped into meto replace the fluids in my body
.
That all of this and I come toand all I I know is that, wait a
minute, I, I'm in pain.
That means I must be alive.
And that was when I knew, okay,I'm here.
I might not be here for long,but i'm'm here.
(48:09):
And it was the same sentiment Ihad as I was escaping the
canyon.
Within about 45 minutes offreeing myself from the boulder,
I was down at the Big DropRepel and I lowered myself 65
feet down to the continuingcanyon, where it opened up out
of the slot canyon and it wasnow more of a box canyon 100
(48:31):
feet wide and hundreds of feetdeep.
Uh, that that was where I tookmy a selfie of standing there
with my amputated arm up behindmy shoulder and, uh, looking
into the camera, it was just tosay I'm still here and and so
much of the way it's that,that's enough, it's.
(48:51):
And I know you mentioned aboutthe role of hope and I, I, I
think we think about hope beinga good thing and yet I it.
Also, I think we have torecognize that it's the flip
side of fear, that it's aboutputting ourselves in a position
of thinking about a futureexperience that we, we are
afraid of having, or that wehope by having, but it's still
(49:13):
not this moment, and this momentis the I'm still here and
that's the declaration.
It's all we have and I'm yes, Ithink the nuance that you
described around acceptance andcontrol, and hope that all of
that is true, to let go ofcontrol where we're deluding
(49:35):
ourselves and yet still to exertour will as we can, to know
that, yes, acceptance of what isright now does not mean that we
don't have a role to play increating a future of what will
be that could be very differentthan what is right now.
(49:56):
There's certainly, I think,layers and perspective to take
there.
This, this idea that where,where, where I was was just
(50:17):
staying in that moment of movingmyself through, uh, without
knowing that I was going to live, knowing that I was going to
see that child, uh, I didn'thave that, knowing I just knew
one more step, aaron, one morestep, one more step, aaron, one
more step, one more step.
And then, as I'm in the hospitaland like I'm in pain, I must be
alive, okay, I'm alive.
(50:38):
And there then my mom walks inthe room and I, I'm alive, and
she holds my hand, and we'recrying, looking at each other
and sobbing, and that it's like,finally, through all these
tears, where I can say I loveyou, mom, I'm sorry, I love the
same things that I said on thetape.
But it's looking into her faceand her tears dropping down on
(51:00):
me.
She's squeezing my left hand sohard I thought I was going to
lose that hand too.
And she says it hadn't been abroken leg that's kept you out
in the desert all this time.
I hadn't been a broken leg.
That's kept you out the desertall this time.
I swore myself driving you youwere gonna have two broken legs
(51:21):
before I was done with you.
I'm just like, did I mention Ilove you?
I'm sorry, and how?
It's like it's all just in thatmoment that there was never and
and it was a good thing because,like, oh, I didn't know, uh,
but come to find out.
Yeah, I gave myself a boneinfection because of the
unsanitary tools and conditionsthat I was operating in.
I almost died from that in theweeks following the rescue.
(51:45):
So many surgeries and just thewhole miracles of science and
modern medicine that it took inorder for me to survive the
aftermath of my experience, notjust the experience itself, and
so that, yeah, I guess I keepcoming back to this idea that
there was never a knowing,there's never a guarantee.
(52:07):
You know, none of us know,we're going to walk out the door
.
You know anything can happen,and and so often so many things
do happen, so that it's just toto know that it's this moment,
it's the connections that wehave, it's it's not necessarily
a promise that there's anythingmore than this, and and yet we,
(52:30):
we can live within that presenceand know that that's.
Speaker 2 (52:38):
I agree with you on that.
When I do these podcasts sooften, I love them all and I've
enjoyed every single interview.
There are a few that I feellike were timed perfectly for me
, and this is one of those ones.
I needed to hear this today.
What right now?
(53:01):
So you've gone through this.
Now you have.
You have a 15 to 12 year oldchild.
You have a 15 year old son, 12year old daughter.
What is a win for you in life?
What would you say, is a thingthat you say okay, that's that,
that's a victory.
Speaker 3 (53:08):
Right now I feel great about that I mean
especially for having kind oflike a tweener, and it's the,
it's the little things of like.
When, when my daughter, like,comes around to my door to give
me a hug before she goes to theschool building, even though,
like, some of her friends arestill outside and can see her do
(53:29):
it, it's about my son, yeah,asking me to go and, like, throw
around the cross with him, eventhough, yeah, he could be
calling his friends to set uptime with them to go do it.
I look at it as those windsthat come along from the
(53:50):
relationships.
We talked about age and abouthealth, and I think one of the
gifts that my body is giving meright now is this maturity to
understand, whereas I would havetaken a health challenge as
something to overcome and tojust dig deeper and still go out
(54:13):
and do everything.
Now it's this gift and thislesson that there's times to
time to, there's times to slowdown, there's times to heal.
That, uh, you know it's, it'sfinding the, the victories in,
in something that otherwise canlook like oh, but it's.
You know, a younger version ofme would have said, but that's,
(54:34):
but that's defeat, like, that'sfailure.
That's not doing.
How is not doing a way of beingthat's better than doing, and
so there's a lot of wisdom.
I think that that can feel likea victory where, oh, I am
growing.
(54:55):
I'm not the same as I was fiveyears ago, 15, 22 years ago.
That's what looks like a win inmy life, and, of course, so much
of it comes back torelationships, about times even
where it's with my co-parentrelationships, and where I
(55:15):
remember to de-escalate ratherthan escalate, to where I
elevate the value of havingpeace over the value of holding
someone to account or getting myway or you know any of the
other things that can feel likea defense mechanism or a success
strategy until they're not,until you realize the
(55:37):
consequences of that, and thenyou say, oh no, there's
something that's more importantthan that for me or for my kids.
So, yeah, there's a lot ofthings that look like wins and
victories that I think,especially 10 years ago, I would
not have said that that'ssomething that I would not have
heard myself say the same thing.
Speaker 2 (55:57):
As you were talking about that.
That's what I was thinkingabout.
What would a win look like foryou 10 years ago?
Because I'm the same thing.
I, as you were talking aboutthat.
That's what I was.
I was thinking about where.
What would a win look like foryou 10 years ago?
Because I'm the same way, aaron, my, my wins.
I do it every morning.
Well, six mornings a week, I,when I get up one of my, I have
a really weird strict morningroutine for about an hour and a
half.
I don't veer monday throughsaturday and or I'm sorry, uh
(56:18):
sunday through friday.
I don't do sats, and one ofthem is I write down five things
that I'm grateful for at thatmoment Beautiful.
And right before I journal, andjust going back, if I went back
to the last three days of thisweek so far, I guess, yeah, the
third day.
One of them was my son and Ihiking on Friday or Saturday and
right in the middle of the hikeI was rocking.
(56:39):
He just turned around and gaveme the biggest bear hug and I'm
melting his arms.
I started tearing up or it wasmy.
One of them was my grandsongetting up and coming.
I'm staying with my daughterright now for a couple of weeks
and he came coming downstairs inthe morning at six, 30 or seven
o'clock and jumping on my lap,you know, wanting to watch
something on my iPad while hehas his breakfast in my arms and
(57:01):
, just, you know, curled up.
And it's those little thingsthat are wins now.
And 10, 15, 20, maybe 20 yearsago I don't know, that may not
have been.
You know, my wins were likelet's get.
I got to get more clients, Igot to get more speaking
engagements and those are alljust icing on the cake.
The cake is the little thingsthat, like you said, and it
always comes down torelationships.
(57:21):
I would say 90% of the thingsI'm grateful for.
Sometimes it's a warm cup ofcoffee in my hand or the birds
singing outside.
But you know they're all these.
Most of them are, like youwould see, seemingly minor
things that you might just gothrough life and they happen to
you, but you never take note ofthem until you actually stop and
think about them and showgratitude for them.
Speaker 3 (57:41):
The little things are the big things.
Speaker 1 (57:43):
They sure are.
Speaker 3 (57:45):
And I think, whether you're a parent or, yeah, as a
spouse, a partner, a leader,that reflection and
consideration of the importanceof connection and relationship,
that it boiled down to it I evensaid it on the video camera as
I was trapped and as I wasreflecting about the meaning of
(58:07):
life that I expressed that it'snot about what you do, aaron,
it's who you are, it's how yourelate, it's how you love it,
it's how you interact and thatis our legacy, that that is the
gift of our presence to others,that that's how our
consciousness, that's what we'rehere to manifest, to bring out,
(58:30):
and I think we all can at leastset a goal for ourselves to be
kind in that, to to be caring,to be compassionate, to be
empathetic, and that that's wow.
Like what a gift of adversity isthat it's not just that what
doesn't kill you makes youstronger, but it also has the
(58:51):
capacity to make you softer, sothat you can connect with others
through the traumas thatthey've had in their lives and
you can be there for one another.
That that that's as I've heardit said.
That's what we're here to do.
Is that we're all just walkingeach other home.
Speaker 2 (59:09):
Well, I'm going to share this with you before we
wrap up, aaron.
So right now I'm going througha fairly difficult emotional
time for the past month, andwhat I would typically do in
times like this it would andI've only gone through a handful
of these in my 58 years ofliving is I would typically feel
(59:31):
sorry for myself for a littlewhile.
I would kind of slack off alittle bit and just get lost in
the misery for a couple of weeks.
Well, this time I decided to gothe opposite approach.
I said I'm going to double downon finding happiness and
(59:51):
seeking happiness within me, andwhat that has done for me is
I've worked out harder.
I've eaten better.
I've eaten better, dramaticallycut my alcohol down.
I have been reading more,journaling more, more gratitude,
reaching out to people more andsaying, okay, I need help, you
know, or I could use yourguidance right now.
(01:00:13):
And I really think it's notjust coincidence that I'm
talking to you on this day and Iwant to share with you the
thing that you did, that energyyou sent to me today, was you
said something about I feel pain, so I must be alive.
I like that a lot, but the onewas I'm still here.
That's such a basic, simplestatement of all the worry that
(01:00:38):
we might have, or all the thingswe're thinking about in the
future or, you know, mistakes wemade in the past or even
problems that we're facingcurrently in the present.
I'm still here is such apowerful way to reframe the mind
to focus on that.
One most beautiful thing thatyou have right at any given
(01:00:59):
moment is that you're still here.
Speaker 3 (01:01:05):
So thank you for that .
I appreciate that I really do,and that's enough.
I think my overall thesis isthat, yes, we don't get to
control what happens to us, weget to choose how we respond.
That when the boulders arrive,we draw on the strength and the
power of the gifts of ourrelationships in order to find
our resilience to transformthose boulders, put that effort
(01:01:28):
in to make them into thegreatest blessings that we could
ever receive in our lives.
And along that journey it isenough to just still be here.
I'm glad that resonated for you, Wow that did.
Speaker 2 (01:01:44):
Well, I'll wrap up now.
I know you're a busy person.
You've got to go to lacrossehere in a little bit.
My son played lacrosse in highschool.
He's not playing his last yearof college because he's putting
a lot of time into his classesand graduating, but he played in
college as well for three years.
Oh awesome he was in attack.
Speaker 3 (01:02:02):
What did?
Speaker 2 (01:02:03):
he play, he played attack but now he played in
college.
He played midfield.
He played, he was a middie incollege.
So one of the greatest sports.
I coached it for five years,you know like youth lacrosse,
but I never played it.
We didn't have lacrosse growingup in my small town so I never
(01:02:28):
played it.
But all three of my step-sons,my bonus sons, played it in high
school.
One played it at the college,collegiate level.
Then my son did as well andthen my oldest bonus son was a
high school coach for a coupleof years in Grand Rapids,
michigan.
But family came, babies came,and now he's not coaching
anymore.
So it's been a part of my lifefor 20 some years, but never,
never, played it.
Even when I coached it Irefused to pick up a stick
because there's no way I cancatch that ball on the stick.
So I'm glad.
Speaker 3 (01:02:48):
I'm glad to hear it.
I mean, I just I, yeah, I feelmore connected with you through
that too, and it is anincredible game and also there's
a lot of incredible sports.
There's so many benefits tobeing a part of a team and to
having a passion like I'm sohappy for my son.
That's something that feelslike a win in that regard of
(01:03:11):
watching your child develop, tosee a passion take hold and to
know what passion has done forme in my life, where it's
compelled me to the greatestheights of experience, and so
I'm psyched.
I think that's something forany of us who are looking for
peak experiences or peakperformance that you know that
(01:03:34):
it comes from having thatpassion and that motivation.
Speaker 2 (01:03:37):
Amen.
Well, brother, I want to takethe time to thank you.
Thank you for taking thatexperience you had and really
you didn't just change your life, you've really impacted
millions of people you literallyhave through the book and the
movie, and the movie seemedpretty authentic and Les Stroud
(01:03:57):
from Survivorman said it was oneof the most authentic survival
movies of all time.
Speaker 3 (01:04:01):
Les Stroud from Survivorman said it was one of
the most authentic survivalmovies of all time.
Yeah, I appreciate that.
It was very authentic to myexperience too.
I wish I had gotten to goskinny dipping with Kate Mara.
That did not happen.
It's part of my experience, butmaybe next time I'll hold out
for that one.
Speaker 2 (01:04:17):
Is she the one that was on Schitt's Creek?
Speaker 3 (01:04:21):
Is she the one that was on Schitt's Creek.
I know that she was in House ofCards in the first couple
seasons there and has also donea bunch of other movies.
Amber Chamberlain, also a greatactor, playing Megan and
Christy, the two women that Iencountered early on that day in
the canyon.
(01:04:42):
And just as now, I take asecond to say it's fun because
every once in a while we getback in touch with each other.
I've been in touch with themhere in just the last week
because we're starting to workon the documentary for a
streaming platform that will beout next year or something like
(01:05:04):
that a year and a half and it'spulling all the folks from the
real experience to talk and tellour story of this for really
the first time, having everybodytogether to, yeah, get this, I
think, give this gift to evenmore people in the world who
(01:05:26):
need it, that when it comesacross, uh, someone's um, maybe,
maybe a time in their lifewhere they're experiencing
darkness, and to shine a beacon,to remind people that we are
connected, that we are so muchmore than that darkness, that
(01:05:46):
there's something that's shiningin us and that that's the
resilience and the love and thepower that we have to keep on
with our being here, so I hopethat it can do a great deal of
work still to come.
I've long known that this wasnot just for me or for my family
(01:06:10):
, but that this happened for allof us, as a reminder of what
we're capable of.
Speaker 2 (01:06:15):
Amen.
Speaker 1 (01:06:16):
Thank you, brother, I appreciate you you have been an
amazing guest, you too, brian.
Speaker 2 (01:06:21):
I really do.
This has been amazing for meand I know the audience is going
to connect.
I know we're going to talk fora few minutes after we're done
recording, but again, aaron,thank you for being such an
inspiring guest actually on theBamboo Lab podcast.
Speaker 3 (01:06:34):
Yeah, thank you, brian.
Speaker 2 (01:06:35):
Thank you for having me, of course, it's my honor.
Folks, I just want to say Iknow this is an episode that's
going to resonate so much for so, with so many, this is exactly
what the bamboo lab podcast isabout, probably the most, uh, I
would say, um symbolic.
Well, when I was looking tostart this podcast three and a
half years ago, this is exactlythe type of message I wanted
people to hear.
So, please, I'm going to askyou to please rate and review us
(01:06:57):
.
Uh, please share this episodewith three to five people, but,
more than anything, in the nextweek or two, before I talk to
you all again, please get outthere and strive to give your
best in everything you do.
Please show love and respect toothers and please show it back
to yourself and please live withpurpose and intention.
I appreciate every single oneof you listening today.
(01:07:19):
Until next time.
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