Frank Mossett's Leadership Lessons: Potential vs Talent, Energy Hours, and Seeing The Good in Others

Episode Transcript
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Introduction (00:00):
Hello and welcome to the Bamboo Lab Podcast with
your host, peak PerformanceCoach, brian Bosley.
Are you stuck on the hamsterwheel of life, spinning and
spinning but not really movingforward?
Are you ready to jump off andsoar?
Are you finally ready to sculptyour life?
If so, you've landed in theright place.

(00:21):
This podcast is created andbroadcast just for you, all of
you strivers, thrivers andsurvivors out there.
If you'd like to learn moreabout Brian and the Bamboo Lab,
feel free to reach out toexplore your true peak level at
wwwbamboolab3.com.

Brian (00:41):
Welcome everyone to this week's episode of the Bamboo Lab
Podcast.
All right, so, folks, some ofyou might remember, back in
October of 2022, I had Season 1,episode 51, and I brought on
one of my amazing friends,somebody I've known for now 32
years, 33 years.
We had Frank Mossad on.
He did an episode called haveFun and Create Wealth and this

(01:04):
episode just took off.
It was one of the biggestpodcasts we had for quite a
while.
It lasted on the top shelf for acouple of months, but then
Season 2, episode 96, I thinkJuly 17th of 2023, I brought on
Frank's daughter, sarah, and oursole purpose, our sole goal in

(01:24):
that episode was to beat her dadin downloads and subscribers.
Listen what she did and to thisday, his daughter Sarah is the
number one most downloadedpodcast and subscribed podcast
on the Bamboo Lab podcast.
I think I checked this morningshe's in 20, some different
countries, which is really goodfor a single podcast, so she's

(01:46):
number one.
So I had to have her dad backon because he's one of my dear
friends.
We keep in contact quite oftenand one of the things I love
about Frank is he's one of themost down to earth yet
successful men I've ever met inmy life.
He has changed more people'slives than probably anyone else,
or he's in the top five anywayof all the people I know who
have legitimately changedpeople's lives than probably

(02:06):
anyone else, or he's in the topfive anyway of all the people I
know who have legitimatelychanged people's lives from the
day they get out of college towhere they are today.
So I can tease him a lot, buthe's one of the most influential
people in my life and so,without further ado, my friend
Frank, welcome back to theBamboo Lab podcast.

Frank (02:22):
Right, I wish you could see the smile on my face as you
talk about my daughter.
She'd still be like I kickedyour ass.
So bad dad.
Yes, you did.
Baby thing is you're gonna getbeat by your kid.
Are you kidding me?

Brian (02:35):
that's what you designed your kids for to beat you you
gotta push them further up thescreen than you got.
I don't see her being dethronedanytime soon on the show
because it's like I get theseother episodes that start
climbing fast and they all likenumber two through 15 kind of
rotate.
You get new, new episodes inand some drop off.
Hers has just been at the topfrom.

(02:55):
Maybe it's like third, fourthweek after we aired it.
It's going to be a while forher to be dethroned, so we can
try this time, but good luck.
Well, this try this time, butgood luck.

Frank (03:06):
Well, this will put a smile on your face.
We went and watched her.
She's finished in law school.
We watched her present in frontof the chief circuit court
judge I believe it was in a mocktrial and he's been doing it
seven years, I think.
Three classes a year.
So she's one of whatever 21groups have presented.
She presented and she killed it.

(03:27):
Brian killed it and I could seethe judge smiling and nodding
and at the end of the day hegave feedback.
He's like Sarah, like I gottabelieve you spent hours and
hours and hours prepping becauseyou legitimately presented
better than anybody I've everhad in this courtroom on this
case.
Wow.
And so, sarah, I'm like lookedat her and she's like your honor

(03:50):
.
I have to be honest with you.
I just looked at this case lastnight.
I've been so busy with my otherclasses so would you say that's
potential or talent or acombination thereof?

(04:10):
Oh, I think.

Brian (04:11):
Potential, yeah, yeah, potential, oh my gosh but I mean
she's got raw talent too.
I mean she came on the podcast.
I know.
When we talked about having heron a couple of years ago, I
thought, well, I don't know Imean I don't really know her we
got to, we talked a couple ofweeks prior to shooting the
episode.
I thought, oh, she's veryimpressive.
But when she was on it was likea switch, a light switched in

(04:31):
her and she just becamenext-level presenter and
next-level communicator and Ithink there's a lot of talent in
there too.
There's a lot of raw talent,but obviously a lot of drive too
.

Frank (04:49):
Yeah, well, another year she's off my payroll, so I'm
excited about that.
You know you had Byron Gag onBrian Mora and Brian, he just
took a major job at the firm inbusiness development and a huge
upgrade of who the guy was.
I mean both those guys.
As I think about it, you knowbecause I knew them both early.
Byron, I was his leader.

(05:11):
But it brings up the question doyou hire potential or talent?
You know what I mean.
Byron Gagin, when he talked Ijust smiled.
He said this guy had so muchraw potential.
Yet you came in and worked withhim and you, I mean you changed
that guy's life right Becauseyou took that potential and
developed it.

(05:31):
But I you know I've beentalking to a lot of I've had a
few conversations with a lot ofpeople on it is just do you hire
potential?
Do you hire talent when you,when you add somebody to your
firm or your business or you're,you're hiring a leader?
Which one is more important?
And you got an opinion on thatone.
I just went through this withanother client.

Brian (05:54):
Yeah, my thoughts are, and I think it's a great
question.
I think it's a question that alot of leaders out there and
decision makers in businessreally have to ponder.
I don't think a lot of peopledo ponder it though, Frank.
I think they look whointerviewed well, Do they meet
the qualifications?
Do they fit a role?
Let's go.
My thoughts are if you candevelop people, higher potential

(06:16):
, If you're just good atmanaging people but not really
good at developing to the nextlevel, higher talent.
But then what's the nextquestion that I think you
brought up to me at an earliertime is are there different
levels in the industry where amore advanced stage executive
level position can you hire forpotential, or do you have to

(06:38):
hire for talent at that point?
Because do you have a lot oftime to develop a person who has
massive influence over anorganization?
So me, I would almost always gofor potential, unless the level
of the responsibilities thathave in the organization are
really, really massive and macro.

(06:59):
Then I'd probably go more fortalent at that time, because you
know, are you going to developanybody who's already at an
executive level?
You're not going to developthem as much as you are at
somebody at a middle level or avery junior level in an
organization.
I don't think that's mythoughts.
What do you think?

Frank (07:15):
You know, I agree with you and I think it's do you have
the talent to develop thesepeople?
That's a huge question.
Are you committed to it?
Right?
Are you committed to it, allright?
If I'm going to hire thisperson, I have to spend more
time developing, coaching,working with them, and if you
don't have the time to do it,you're sort of forced to hire
talent.
But then you have to ask goodquestions, right?

(07:38):
You know I go through a lot oftimes.
I'll do a last interview tohelp somebody out and at the end
I'll be like I get you, youlove them, they've got a lot of
talent, but they've been at fivedifferent jobs in the last
three years, or five differentjobs in the last eight years.
Why are they job hopping Inthis world?

(07:59):
If you have talent andpotential, nobody's letting you
go, and potential, nobody'sletting you go.
Your employer is doingeverything they can to keep you,
because that's pretty obvious.
So I think you have to steal,in a weird way, talent and
potential from somebody else bypaying them more money.

Brian (08:17):
Yeah, I think you do.
The only way that your case mayfall apart and I don't think
it's that common is if it's justnot a good cultural fit where
they were before.
But if they've won four or fivejobs prior to you, then it's
not really a problem with thecultural fit, it's a problem
with you not fitting into aculture.
So I think it mostly is I thinkyou have to headhunt people who

(08:41):
have both.
I think you have to headhuntpeople who have both, because I
think it seems like you and Iwere taught back in the day and
I still use this kind of thethree circles that intertwine
almost like the Olympic circlesknowledge, skill and desire.
You have to have knowledge andyou have to know what to do,
skill and how to do it, which Ithink is talent.
But then you have to have thatdesire and the why to do it, and

(09:02):
I think that's talking.
I think that's kind of what Isee when we talk about potential
and talent.
It's kind of a combination ofknowledge, skill and desire.
And what I find and honestly Idon't think it's a sign of the
times, because you know, in thelast quarter century of doing
this, I don't see a lot ofpeople who have both.
I don't see a lot.
I do see them, but when youfind that person, man, grab on

(09:25):
and do not let go.
Give them what they want,remove obstacles out of their
way.
I mean, that's what you've done, frank.
And you look at the people andI've been blessed to have worked
with you.
You were my first reallybreakthrough in my practice.
And what was it?
28 years ago, after I waspicking coins out of my couch
cushions and digging through mydaughter's piggy bank to pay

(09:47):
bills and get food in my mouth,after I left American express
and you called me and said, hey,come on with the Portland and
uh, work and coach some of ourpeople.
And I look at the track recordand the braille, the breadcrumbs
of the talent you have createdand developed over the years.
Dude, you've created a smallcountry.
I mean, do you have any idea?
Would you be able to guess?
I don't want you to self-breakbecause that's not really your

(10:10):
style, but do you ever think ofhow many people, how many
multi-millionaires ormulti-millionaires you've
created in your career?
So you're the better person toanswer those questions.

Frank (10:22):
Yeah, that's a great question because I do.
I just got a text last weekfrom a manager that used to work
for me and and he's living abeautiful life doing stuff with
his kids, doing everything, andhe shared with me some numbers
and I mean he's making over amillion bucks, right, but he's
it's not about the money, it'sabout the lifestyle.
It's, yeah, you make the money,but if you can do what you want

(10:42):
to do in life and who you wantto be, and you know, be a good
christian, be a good parent, bea good brother, friend, and that
and that's what he described tome I, how many people at that
level?
I, 20, 30, 40, 50, and you knowit matched down.
I, you know, I can't, I think,wait a few hundred, five hundred

(11:04):
people that make a few hundredgrand in a year.
They're living really coollives and that's what drove me
when I was doing the leadership,and I think one of the reasons
I decided to retire is we wentfrom hiring new advisors and
developing people to hiringexperienced advisors.
Yeah, and that wasn't my thing,I didn't.
I can do it.
Yeah, and that wasn't my thing.

(11:26):
I didn't, I can do it, but Ididn't.
I didn't have the samegratification or the same
fulfillment from taking anexperienced advisor over and
helping them move their book.
I'd rather develop somebody andhelp them grow and build, but I
love the potential and I'm notand I was never a great manager.
I mean, I think if you're goingto hire experience, you have to
be a great manager.
I mean I think if you're goingto hire experience, you have to

(11:48):
be a good manager.
You just dig into the details.
You're a micro-manager.
My old boss was an amazingmanager, one of the best
managers I've ever worked forMaybe not a leader and he was a
leader, but he was a bettermanager.

Brian (12:01):
And that was never my thing.
No, I always tell people youeither are a good builder or
you're a good manager ofanything in life, and I've never
been a good manager of anything.
I like to build stuff, buildpeople, build ideas, but when
it's built, don't give it to me,because I'm going to get bored
with it real quickly.
I was the kind of kid.
As a kid I built tree forts andthe next day I'd tear them down

(12:24):
and build a better one.
I was the kind of kid as a kidI built three forts and the next
day I'd tear them down andbuild a better one.
The next day I'd sleep in it anight or two and then I'd build
another one.
I didn't like to look at itonce I was done.
I got bored with it.
You know, I do think that youand I have been in the industry
roughly the same or connected tothe industry.
You've been in the actualindustry longer than I have.
Obviously, I was only in it forfive years, but you and I have

(12:49):
been connected to the financialindustry for well over 30-some
years now, and one of the thingsthat I hear a lot about you,
frank, when I talk to people Ishare with you prior to the
airing today or the recordingthat I talked to, I think, three
or four people in the last twoweeks who you and I have both
had impact on.
And I do hear that I do talk toother people who have had
impact, like I've shared animpact with another person.

(13:10):
Maybe I'll say a John Smith orsome other and that's a
fictional name, but and they'lla lot of times when you have a
person like you, who's been inthe industry, who's impacted so
many lives, you hear negativethings about them too.
You do, you know, like he reallyhelped me, but he me, but he
was a, he was an asshole withyou.
I never hear that.
It's always oh God, he that,that guy did it right.

(13:30):
That guy, you know he, he savedmy life, he changed my life, he
saved my career and just a good, solid dude and I'd.
I would definitely agree withhim on that about you, cause I
think one of the things you'vedone really well, frank, that a
lot of successful people don't Ithink the world needs to hear
this is you've really maintaineda really good work-life balance

(13:52):
Like you never really got.
You got totally involved withyour career but you never let
the career control you and Ialways respected that about you.
You had me out in Portland,then I followed you to Kansas
City, then I followed you toBoston.
I kind of followed you arounddoing coaching with your people,
got to meet the people you wereleading and developing and

(14:14):
obviously got to watch you inaction.
But you never really too badlylike a lot of corporate
executives and leaders do.
They get so sucked up thattheir family goes by the wayside
, and I'm sure that happened attimes.
It happens to all of us attimes.
How do you juggle those twoalmost dichotomous avenues in
your head of work and personallife?

(14:36):
What did you do differently?
Or what did you do differentlythan most people?

Frank (14:42):
You know, I think that's a huge issue that most
businesses are fighting withright and I agree with you that
I feel like I did a pretty goodjob of that.
I certainly erred on that, youknow, when I was running Kansas
and Boston at the same time Iwas living in an airplane to the
top organizations in thecompany at Time for New Advisors
.
I mean I didn't do a good jobthen but most of my career I

(15:06):
have.
You know, I think part of it islike the one-minute manager
meets the monkey.
You know, one of my favoritebooks is delegating.
Right is finding good people.
I mean, when I was in Oregonand Boston and Kansas, man, I
knew that if I had youngadvisors with a lot of potential

(15:29):
and I couldn't spend the timewith them, if I brought you in
as an example, you would takethat raw potential and build a
Picasso.
If you really look at it, youdid.
I mean, I'm guessing in myorganization people I've hired
and recruited, trained 50 to ahundred could look at and say

(15:51):
Bozley had a huge impact on mycareer, right and I and I I
found good people to help.
Um, but it's also aboutprioritizing, I mean what's most
important to you and I, mycareer has never been the most
important.
I mean, I, I love waking upnext to my wife every day, you

(16:12):
know so, for traveling was hardon me.
I didn't want to do it, and Iand I remember when I was in
Kansas city, I was offeredChicago, then I was offered Ohio
as a next level up right, and Iturned him down, and I might
have told you this, I was verycareful about presenting it at
the time.
One, I wasn't overly fond ofwhere I was going to have to

(16:34):
live, but I was coaching myson's baseball team, and we had
a chance at legitimately beingnumber one I think he was second
grade, or something like that.
Legitimately, we had the chanceof the championship.
When else am I going to have anopportunity to do that?
I don't need this job.
I've always made enough money.
I mean, money's never reallybeen.

(16:54):
I'm frugal.
I spend a third, I save a third, and then the government takes
their 30%, or well, probably 40%.
I do think, though, you have tohave that as a priority, and I
talk to a lot of people aboutwhat's your model work week look
like, you know, and where areyou spending time, and we

(17:17):
haven't talked about this, but Ihave a concept I developed a
few years ago called EnergyHours.

Brian (17:22):
Yeah, you mentioned that to me a couple of weeks ago,
maybe last week.
I want to.
I'm curious about that.

Frank (17:29):
Well, the energy hours.
This is my belief.
I think you only have so manyhours that you're engaged,
you're focused and you're driven.
A week, I don't think it's 40.
I think it's 20 or less, somepeople it's five, some people
it's 10.
And what happens is they don'trecognize it and they're not

(17:51):
putting a model work weektogether to capitalize on it.
But you know, I think you canbuy energy hours and you sell
energy hours in my mindset.
So, buying energy hours, if Iwant to buy energy hours eat
healthy, work out, have a goodfamily life, right, I mean?
You get into a fight with yourspouse.
What's your productivity thenext day?

(18:12):
You eat three cheeseburgers forbreakfast.
How do you feel the rest of theday?
You know what I mean and Ithink by being aware of your
energy hours and honing in onbeing healthy and doing the
stuff that you like, doing thestuff that you're good at you
buy them you increase yourenergy hours.
You want to get rid of energyhours.
Meet with a client that youhate meeting with, right, I mean

(18:37):
, don't work out, don't get agood night's sleep.
Your next day is a hell of alot less productive and I see
people working for the sake ofworking.
Like Chris, you got a goodleadership team where you hire
somebody, let them do their job,get the hell out of their way.
You know, and I had a lessonearly in life.

(18:59):
It was down in Rosenberg Oregon.
I still laugh as some bitch hewanted to meet with down in
Rosenberg Oregon.
I still laugh as some bitch hewanted to meet with.
I wanted to meet with him.
So we finally.
He's like all right, I'll meetwith you.
He's like I'll meet with you at7.30.
All right, I live two and ahalf hours away from you.
This is a problem, but whatever, I got up at like 4.30, drove

(19:24):
to his office, sat there.
I get there at 7.15.
He shows up at about 10 to 8.
True story Brian Comes in, letsme in, doesn't really
acknowledge me, so just pointsto a chair, goes in, opens his
mail for 15 minutes.
Huge lesson for everybody onthis one.
I didn't plan on bringing thisup, but whatever, I'm going to

(19:46):
talk about it.
So finally he puts his finger.
He's like come on in, you know.
He grabs a clean piece of paper, a pen, looks at me and this
guy's making a million dollars ayear.
This was 30 some years ago.
I mean, he's a big producer.
He's like all right, you're inmanagement, you're probably

(20:06):
going to be able to tell me howto double my business and work
less hours and provide betterservice.
He's like so in the next 15minutes, the floor is yours.
I just want to learn from you,frank and he's obviously being
facetious, right.
I mean he's, he's been a saint.
Yeah, I looked at him and Isaid Roger, let me ask you a
question before I do that.
He's like that's fine.

(20:27):
I says if I thought my dumb asscould make $2 million working 20
, 30 hours a week, you think Iwould have got up at 4.30 and
drove to your office to watchyou open.
Have you show up late, openmail.
I'm like I can't do it.
So he sort of relaxed.

(20:47):
He's like all right, now thatwe got that straight, what's
going on?
What's going on?
I'm like this is the deal.
If you have an obstacle, I'llhelp you remove it.
If you have an it you havestaff turnover.
I'll help you interview newstaff.
I movement.
If you haven't yet, you havestaff turnover.
I hope you interview new staff.
I hope you find new staff.
I'll clear the path for you tolet you do what you do best and
that's meet with clients.

(21:08):
You know, and he challenged me,a week later his computer went
down.
This was, I mean, it's 30 yearsago, it's a little more
complicated.
But I looked at my assistant.
I said, hey, any chance you candrive to Rosenberg and drop a
computer off.
She's like, yeah for sure, likewhatever.
It was two, three-hour drive.
The computer was sitting on hisdesk, fully set up.
From there we had a really goodrelationship.

(21:30):
But I think as a leader you'vegot to realize you know, part of
your job is to removeroadblocks and clear the path
and let your people run, letthem do what they do best.
You've got to have gutter railsin place, but don't stifle
creativity.

Brian (21:47):
Why do you think leaders do that?
Frank Far too often Insecurity.

Frank (21:57):
A new manager always wants to do it their way.
They think their way is thebest.
And I mean we have a projectGreenfield or something.
A lot of years ago I killed theprogram.
I killed new advisordevelopment for a while because
they every is the same processfor everybody, every leader,
every new advisor and it's not.
I mean, I think you got to takethe strengths of your leaders

(22:20):
and work around them and I usedto tell managers at work for me,
especially new ones.
I'd be like let's be clear onsomething, your job is to get
shit done, not do it.
And I'd repeat it and I'd talkto them about it.
I'm like I don't want you doingeverything.
I want you to be somewhat boredso you can go work on people
development and hire good peopleand take the energy hours that

(22:43):
you have and exploit them.
And I think a lot of managersdon't do that.
They think they have to work 50, 60 hours a week.
And I would argue, if you'reworking 50, 60 hours a week,
you're burning energy hours andyou're just checking boxes.

Brian (23:02):
That's my opinion.
I think it's based on sciencetoo.
I really do, frank, becauseeverything I've read in the last
five years on neuroscience andproductivity shows that the
average brain only can work forabout 60 to 90 minutes on
anything that it needs a mentalbreak, Just like when you work
out a lot you play hockey, youlift and things like that.

(23:25):
You get to a point where youcan't lift weights eight hours a
day.
You can't play hockey, you'regoing to hurt yourself, you're
going to tear ligaments andcartilage and our brains are the
same way.
And I think when we get down to, you know they say the best
cycle for the average human is90 minutes of focused work, 30
minutes off.
90 minutes of focused work, 30minutes off.

(23:45):
I find through my clients it'sabout 75 minutes and at that
everything you do is a point ofdiminishing return.
And when you're trying to, youknow the whole energy hours
things makes.
I think it makes a shit ton ofsense Because I know me if I
have three hours to getsomething done.
I think it makes a shit ton ofsense because I know me if I, if
I have three hours to getsomething done, I'll get it done

(24:05):
.
If I have eight hours to get itdone.
It's going to take me six hoursto do it and I'm going to be
tired as hell when I get it done.
You know, and I think thatyou're I think you're exactly
right we have to.
We have to kind of stop puttingso much on our plates and work
on the things that produce whatwe are designed or hired to
produce and leave the otherstuff for the next person to

(24:25):
produce.
And I think you're right.
I think it's insecurity and Ialways tell people there are six
reasons why we do stupid things, and they all happen to start
with the letter I.
It's either intent, it'sindifference, it's ignorance,
incompetency, insecurity orimmaturity.
And I think what we're talkingabout here when leaders don't
let their people and they wantto be involved in everything
they don't want to just givethem the resources they need and

(24:46):
remove obstacles it'sinsecurity, but it's also
incompetency.
They don't know another way todo it.
That's how they were taught andI think that's a generational
thing that happens in a lot ofcompanies.
To me, you can look at acompany run that way and say
you're successful today, but ifthings don't change in 20 years,
you're going to go the way ofthe buggy whip.

(25:07):
You're going to be obsolete.
Because one of the things Ithink you and I learned Frank at
a young age is, even though weworked a lot of hours when we
were in early entry levels ofleadership, leadership seemed
sexy back then.
Even though we work in a lot ofhours, it seemed sexy, it
seemed fun.
We had good mentors, it was fun.
The environment was kind of fun.
I don't see that anymore.

(25:28):
When I see a leader workingthose hours like you said, 60
hours a week or so I always askmy clients are you making the
next generation look at you andsay that's what I want to do?
Because nobody wants to sign upfor a 60-hour work week.
At least the pool of people towant to do that is very small,
and especially in today's worldwhere they want success quickly
and they can jump from companyto company and take their 401k

(25:49):
with them, you got to makeleadership look cool.
And when you're working 60hours a week and you're
micromanaging and you'restressed all the time, dude,
good luck finding a replacement,because there's not a lot of
people who want to do that.

Frank (26:03):
Yeah, I 100% agree with that.
You know, when you tellsomebody how to do it and you
micromanage them and when theydo it, all right, they did it.
When you give somebody theflexibility and freedom to do
something cool and they do it,my God, how much fun is that.

(26:25):
You're high-fiving.
Are you kidding me?
Look at this.
That, to me, is exciting, andwhen I was in leadership
full-time, that was my thing.
I loved high-fiving people, Iloved celebrating it and I share
this with people.
I would acknowledge it.
But oftentimes I'd sendsomething to the house and I'd

(26:47):
put a letter in there.
Like you know, scott or Bill,or whatever, you're doing such
an awesome job and I can't tellyou how much I appreciate your
focus, your commitment and yourresults, whatever it is, and I'd
go.
Why did you send it to thehouse?
Because I wanted their kids tosee it and I wanted their wife
to see it.
You feel good when you getsomething, but when you get it

(27:08):
at your house and your wife seesyour kids and you know, when we
do conferences, I alwayscompliment people in front of
their wives and whoever they'rewith.
How fun is that?
Wife's and whoever they're withhow fun is that.
And especially when they getthe job done.
I don't know, man.
That's what always drove me inleadership is watching these

(27:29):
people grow.

Brian (27:35):
It's so much fun.
Well, I think that's why you'vehad such an impact and you've
been very financially andprofessionally successful.
But your biggest success I'veknown this for years was knowing
that you've made an impact onpeople.
It never was throughmicromanagement, it was through
empowerment, and I think that'sthe key word here that I don't
see a lot of in leadership today.
It's always been a buzzword inleadership journals and books
and literature and evenleadership conferences is the

(27:56):
word empowerment, but as soon assomebody gets back to the
office, that word is forgotten.
Is empowering a person to do it, to create, to produce and to
be the best version ofthemselves not to be you or do
it exactly how you would do it,but do it with their style.
And when you can do that, whenyou have that confidence as a
leader and you give thatconfidence to your people, I

(28:19):
mean they'll run through brickwalls for you, and I think
that's what you've done a reallygood job of over the years.
You know you look at, one of thethings that I've seen a lot,
frank, and I don't think you andI talked about this on the
first episode we did was thisresearch that's been going
around for the past 10 yearsaround our country that and I've
seen different studies on thisand they're all very empirical

(28:40):
but they're all independentstudies that shows roughly 26%
of all American workers I thinkit's actually in developed
countries, but at least in the US for sure are fully engaged in
their jobs.
You know producers they'recreative, they're, they're fun,
they're positive, they want toget better, they're thinking out
of the box.
Then you have 55% aredisengengaged and those are your
really good quality people butthey're kind of stuck in a rut.

(29:04):
They want to be engaged, theywant to be creative and be
empowered and they want all thisstuff but they don't know how
to get there.
But they're good people.
Then you have 19% who arecalled actively disengaged,
meaning they are kind of more ofyour toxic people Like you
don't really.
You know you really can't spenda lot of time with them because

(29:26):
there's a very, very, very,very minute chance that you're
going to convert.
Turn those people around.
But what I see a lot of times,frank, in coaching is that
leaders want to spend a lot oftime either with their 26 person
who are engaged, becausethey're fun and you want to be
around them because they're onyour resume, man, it makes you
look good.
Or you want to go down to the19% and try to save them, but

(29:48):
where I think the focus has tobe is on that 55%.
I think the top 26% hey, whatresources do you need and what
obstacles can I remove?
But then you've got the 55% whoare just like they're stuck,
they're at a deer in headlights,they don't know how to take
that next step.
What would you say to a leaderwho's working with those people
who they want to maintain, theywant to keep them away from the

(30:10):
bottom 19% who are kind of likesharks in muddy water.
They're parasitic, and thatthey want to take a group of
those and they want to, you know, get them to be that engaged
person.
How would you lead those people?

Frank (30:26):
You know, and I think you know this, a lot of my career
was going to troubledorganizations and turning it
around right I mean and I wasgood at it Partly is I would
give them the chance but I wouldcut the cancer out.
Yeah, I mean, if they're cancerI'm not keeping them, they're
fire, and that's a cold thing tosay.

(30:47):
But when I let somebody go, Imean I've had a lot of people go
through my career but I usuallytry to find them a better home
Working with another advisorworking in a team
or working in another company,because when I let somebody go,
I want them to say thank you,frank, I'm going to miss you, I
appreciate you.
And you let somebody go andthey become an enemy.

(31:10):
You're just going to get aknife in your back at a time
Plus.
What the hell, man?
It's about helping people andif it's not the right role that
they're in, help them find theright role right.
You know, take the time andenergy, and I mean my wrestling
coach taught me a huge lesson.
Maybe we can visit, butregarding that.
But back to that point, I thinkeverything in life and merrily

(31:32):
adams, who, um, is a friend ofmine, she wrote choose your
questions, choose your thoughts,um, and in fantastic book, but
she talks about effectivequestioning, and I think
everything in life is like ajigsaw puzzle.
So a three piece jigsaw puzzleis I'm buying you widget a for
10 bucks a piece.
I can buy the same thing, thesame service, the same

(31:53):
everything for $8.
Well, that's, it's an easything to see, right?
You just look at it and be likethat's easy, but I think when
you're dealing with people, it'sa jigsaw puzzle.
So you can see 20 pieces of a500-piece puzzle.
You don't know what the picturereally looks like.
The only way to get a view ofwhat that picture or what that
person is and get them up in themorning and get them focused is

(32:18):
to ask really good questionsand start collecting pieces of
that puzzle.
What's going on at the house,tell me, you know, what do you
do for hobbies?
What's going on at the office,what's here?
And just continually askinggood questions.
Because if I get a really clearpicture of what that person is
and what motivates and what theylike, what they don't like

(32:38):
person is and what motivates andwhat they like, what they don't
like, I now can help eitherdesign a training program or a
mentorship program or redefinetheir job slightly to take
advantage of what they're reallygood at.
You know, strategic coachesdoes a great job of.
That is what's your uniqueability, right, and I think
that's too many managers justwant to talk and I, you know too

(33:00):
many managers just want to talkand I used to visit my managers
in the states.
They ran and I'd fly in andspend a couple days with them
and I'd give them feedback atthe end.
I'd give them feedback at everymeeting and a lot of times the
feedback would be.
You want the real feedback,give it to me, frank.
And people knew.
You never had to wonder what Iwas thinking, can I tell you?

(33:21):
And I didn't hold grudges, Ididn't stay mad, it was let's
just talk about it.
I'm like if you just shut thehell up and ask more questions,
your job would be a lot easier.
Your people want to give youthe answer.
They want to tell you how tolead them better.
You just don't give them theopportunity to do it or you
critique how they do it.
Who gives a shit how they talkto you If you're asking for

(33:42):
feedback and it doesn't seemrespectful, or you know there's
lines, obviously, but it didn'tcome out right who cares?
Listen to them, and if you cansolve that problem and help pave
that way, I don't think you'regoing to get the whole chunk of
people, but you're certainlygetting a lot of them moving in
the right direction.

Brian (34:01):
Well, I think it's.
I had a guy, a gentleman, onthe podcast last week, ray
Phillips, and he wrote he'swritten a couple of books, one
of them on leadership, calledFinding Joy in Leadership, and
he talked he talked on the onthe show about mutual
accountability between leadersand employees and I really liked
that concept.
You know where you there's amutual accountability.
It's not just you are not justaccountable to me, but I'm

(34:24):
accountable to you as well, andpart of that is listening and
getting to know that person froma third dimension is getting to
ask questions and listening tothem, as you said.
And but you think about it,frank, we all the time we spent
in grade school, you knowlearning how to talk, learning
how to.
You know all these you know.
You know we never learned howto listen, nobody ever.
There was never a class onlistening, which is the most
effective, most important of allthe communication skills, but

(34:48):
there's never a class onlistening.
I never took.

Frank (34:52):
No, no.
And you think about howimportant that is.
I mean, I mean in the financialworld, now that you know, and
now I have a small client base.
I work with very high net worthclients managing their money
and I love it.
But you know, when I talk tohim like what's important?
Why is it important?
What else do you want to do?
What you know.
You've got all this money.
What are we trying toaccomplish?

(35:12):
What are we doing withcharities?
What are we doing upon death?
I mean, and the and the better.
I know the client now I caninvest it accordingly and I can
put a game plan in place andhelp them be better, help them
impact their community.
So a lot of these people, theyhave more money than they'll
ever spend, but what are theygoing to do with it?
And nobody ever listens.
They're like, all right, I'llinvest it and move on.

(35:34):
Take the time.
I could go on and on on thatone.
I just think people need to askbetter questions.

Brian (35:42):
Well, when I work with my clients on this concept, I have
called the cameras on exercise.
How would you behave if thecameras were on you full time?
It's 24-7, like a reality TVshow.
And I go on to discuss theseven ways that we, as humans,
form an opinion on others, andone of them is the questions we
ask them.
And I always say there arethree levels of questions.
The first one is how was yourweekend, you know?

(36:04):
Second one might be you know,how was your mom, how'd your son
do in the lacrosse game?
You know, I heard your mom felland broke her hip.
How's she doing?
That's a second level question,it's a more personal.
But then if you can get someoneto, if you can get down and
really ask them a question thatreally makes them walk away,
going shit, nobody's ever askedme that question before.
That's a third tier levelquestion and that's where you

(36:25):
really get into getting a personto walk away.
And I don't know if it was youthat asked me this question, but
whenever I tell people I wasasked a question one time and I
always think of you.
So I don't know if it was youor not, but it's because you've
asked so many good questions.
It was the question of if wecould eliminate all of your fear
for the next seven days, whatwould you do differently this
week?

(36:45):
I use that as an example of aquestion.
You can ask a person to get toknow them a little bit and cold
more into their soul.
I don't know if that was aquestion you asked me, but I
always picture you as askingthat question when I share this
advice with my clients, and thatis because of the questions you
have asked.
And sometimes the questionsyou've asked me have been
annoying as shit.
But they make me think andthat's why today, when I needed

(37:08):
advice on something, I calledyou before we aired today.
So I think that is definitely amissed opportunity and I do
think a lot of it in today'swork society or work environment
is.
I think a lot of leaders areafraid of getting to know their
people because of the attritionrate in organizations.

(37:30):
They're afraid people.
Hey, we only keep our employeesfor three years, five years, so
I don't really need to spendtime getting to know them.
Well, in reality, hey, do youever think of why you're only
keeping people for three to fiveyears?
And I don't think they makethat connection of.
So that might be a major reasonwhy?

(37:51):
Because I think it's a studyshow that.
The study show that if you havea best friend at work or
somebody who truly cares aboutyou, you are seven times likely
to be in that engaged group ofpeople that we mentioned earlier
.
And if you don't have a reallygood person at work that you can
confide in, who knows you well,you only have a 1 in 12 chance

(38:13):
of ever becoming engaged in yourjob.
So it's not just the leaders whohave to do this, it's we have
to do this.
Employees have to do this witheach other ask questions, get to
know them, you know, becomefriends, so to speak.
But I think leaders have to setthat example of you know,
getting to know the people thatwork for them.
You know, prying into them alittle bit.

(38:34):
What makes them tick, not justat work but at home.
Not just at work, but at homewhat do people want to talk
about?
Is it family, occupation,recreation and motivation?
If you can talk about thosefour things with people, they'll
talk all night long and justformulate questions.
One of the things that I'vefound in the last couple of
years of talking aboutquestioning and I'm not really
good at coaching.
Questioning I'm not, that's notmy specialty but when I do

(38:56):
coach it I always pull up andtell my clients you can click on
Google right now and ask whatare the 20 most powerful
questions?
I can ask a friend orco-teammate or an employee or a
boss or whatever, and you'regoing to come up with an
infinite number of questionsthat you can ask people, because
sometimes we don't know what toask.
We grew up with how was yourweekend?
How was your mom?
How did your son do on thelacrosse game?

(39:16):
That's what we kind of grew upwith.
So it does take some training,or at least it takes time and it
takes developing a habit, toreally become a good questioner.
But I read Mary Lee Adams' book.
You recommended that book a fewyears ago to me and I read it.
Actually I have it in mystorage with all my books right
now, so I remember that bookreally well.

Frank (39:39):
I think there's the two pieces attached.
That would be.
You know, I always didone-on-ones with my direct
reports and that started withwhat's going well.
Second was what challengesyou're having.
They'd fill it out beforehandso it wasn't just a conversation
.
They'd fill out a form, onepage or email, and we'd go
through stuff.
But I want to spend time withit and I would give them as much

(40:03):
time as they needed.
I think too often times you knowthey have a 15-minute phone
call Like what are youaccomplishing with 15 minutes
with somebody?
It's like a permission call,shut up, spend some time.
But then I'd flip it to theother two, sort of folks
listening.
I remember in Kansas City citymy dad had a.

(40:23):
You know you, I hate to saywe're waiting, potentially I'm
passing away, right.
So it's really tearing me up.
And normally I would alwayshave my door open and I had a
bucket of candy on my deskbecause I wanted people to come
in and grab it and talk to me.
So I, I, so it was when I Iwanted people to come in, but
during that time I'd shut mydoor and I remember realizing

(40:45):
people are probably wonderingwhat's going on.
So in the next class I sharedwith the group.
I'm like this is the deal.
If you see me in my office withmy door shut, I've got some
personal shit going on with mydad right now.
I mean it's causing me griefand I don't want you to think
it's you, it's just I'm fightingthrough some stuff right now
with this hell.
So I'm going to come in, I'mgoing to do my work, I'm going

(41:07):
to leave a little early and I'mgoing to be less friendly and I
apologize to you for that, butI'm coping with it.
And you know what, if you workfor me, worked for me Now you
don't have to.
Why is Frank quiet?
Why he seems like he's pissedat me?
No, he's just had some personalshit going on in his life that
he has to get through and theywant to help you because of that

(41:31):
.
But how many times does theboss not share that with
somebody?
And now they have to wonderlike what's wrong with this guy?

Brian (41:38):
Well, it makes sense now.
Well, and I think it's, youknow, I do think it's harder for
men to to share that too, Ifind, you know I'm.
One of the things that I focuson, frank, in the last couple of
years with my clients isvulnerability as a leader, and I
don't mean vulnerability whereyou're coming in and you know
you're whining about the weekend.
That's not vulnerability,that's weakness, but it's yeah.
So what you did when yourfather was going through that is

(41:58):
just sharing with them, being alittle personal, being a little
vulnerable and, when you can asa leader, especially in today's
society, when you can do that,they see you as a person who
sits on the same side of thetable as them, not someone who
sits across a bigger desk fromthem, and you are you're human
too just a little more advancedin your career than they are,
with a little moreresponsibility, and I think

(42:20):
that's one of the most powerfulthings that we can do.
I had a gentleman on a coupleof months ago named Josh Pasheer
who runs Uncaged Brotherhood,an organization that brings men
together, very successful menwho can just be very vulnerable
and talk about what they'regoing through in life and talk
about the challenges they faceand the opportunity they face,
and it's a fairly new operation,but I think he's going to do

(42:42):
fantastic things.
That's just a key word and whenI'm coaching people, when I put
that word out vulnerability, youknow, to an executive or to
somebody in a leadership rolewith influence, oh my gosh, it's
like somebody turned the lightsoff on them.
They just get scared and theypanic.
And because the wordvulnerability has been
bastardized and misused so longthat they just they don't want

(43:05):
to, they don't want to do that,they think it's it's going to
show weakness and, in my opinion, vulnerability is one of the
core elements of a super strongperson, especially a strong
leader is being able to open upa little bit.
You know, not put your problemson their plate, but, you know,
share the problems you're facingand that that, especially if it
affects them.
So, um, yeah, sure,vulnerability, I, I, I believe

(43:29):
you've lost your wrestling coach, um, not so long ago.
Um, am I right on that?

Frank (43:35):
You're right, as um, rudy Thompson, um, a couple of of
huge lessons that I had from him.
He was, you know we can allmake excuses in life.
You know of what happened whenwe were a kid, but when I was a
kid man, I was taking the wrongpath and I can tell you I had a
brother who died when he was 11.
I can tell you we livedpaycheck to paycheck.
I can tell you my dad foughtalcoholism.

(43:57):
But the reality is everybodyhas stuff like that.
They go through right.
And Rudy was a guy, that man.
He saw the good in people anduh, in fact, when I got promoted
in Kansas city I'm going toshare with the lesson or two
I've received from Rudy I tookthis promotion and, uh, I spent

(44:19):
a lot of time on this letter.
I wrote him a letter to makesure I don't get choked up and
it was thanking him for who hewas, thanking him for the impact
that he had on my life, and Iused the theme of thanks for
being in my corner.
I wouldn't be where I was whereI am if it wasn't for you.
And I say in the note I saidlast year I made I don't know

(44:41):
what, it was close to a millionbucks, whatever it was, I was
like.
But forget about the money,rudy, and this was in the letter
.
I coach my kids sports fulltime.
I'm the president of thechildren's diabetes association
and his kid had diabetes as achild.
So there was a connection thereand a reason I said I feel good
about being a dad, I feel goodabout being a husband.
I've got this going on and Ishared with that.

(45:04):
Then I sent him a letter andsigned I think it was Muhammad
Ali Boxing Glove.
He gets it.
And this guy's a wrestling coach.
He's a big guy.
He's a stupid crazy smart guy,a Cornell graduate, right.
He called me in tears, crying.
He's like that's so nice of you.

(45:24):
I'm like it's true, rudy, Iapologize, it took me so long to
tell you that and I think toooften times in life when you hit
a level of success, we don'tsay thank you.
So, for everybody who'slistening to this, get a paper
and pencil out and write two orthree thank you notes and send
them to somebody.
You just you make their week,their life or their day,
whatever.

(45:46):
But he was a school teacher andto me, a school teacher, if you
care, is one of the mostunderpaid, underappreciated jobs
there is.
If you care, right, if classesare too big, you're not paying
enough money.
If you don't care, I thinkmaybe it's an easy job, right?
You don't give a shit, you justshow up and do your thing and
go home.
But he was a guy that cared,and when I was a freshman,

(46:11):
sophomore, whatever it was, I'mgoing to give their names
because I'm going to pay a lotof respect to them.
Coach Roberts was my gym teacher.
Him and I went fist fight.
Basically, we didn't fist fight, we almost got there, right,
he's going to fail me, whichmakes me ineligible to wrestle.

(46:34):
Rudy came to me.
He's like you fool, that's whathe used to say.
You fool, what are you fightingwith Mr Roberts for?
He's going to fail you and Ican be able to wrestle.
And he went through it.
And I look inward.
I was mad at him at the time,mr Roberts.
But Mr Roberts is an amazingcoach.
He coached cross country, hewas a gym coach, just a really
good human.
And here I'm picking a fightwith him and Rudy taught me a

(46:58):
lesson and I've expanded on itover and over through the years
is why don't you fight withsomebody?
What's your upside?
Be friends with them.
What are you doing?
And how many times in life dowe pick a fight that we don't
need to pick?
You know and Rudy was the guythat if he looked at you, he saw

(47:19):
the good.
He was a minister on the sideas well.
He saw the good and heexploited the good and he helped
you identify the good and he'schanged my life, man.
He changed my life to sort oftake a different path, but he
also changed my life to see thegood in people and to be a good
Christian, to care about people,to make a difference.

(47:40):
And you know what's that worth,brian?
I mean that lesson by itself.
If all you did was see the goodin people and I think Stephen
Covey has a picture of that oldlady, young lady type thing
right which one do you see?
Well, you see what you want tosee.

Brian (48:00):
Yeah, and I think when you look at your role and you've
done this really well and whatI define leadership, when I
coach leaders and the firstthing I say is what's your
definition of leadership?
And they give me some textbookanswer and I say, no, it's real
simple.
It's to increase the sense ofself-worth of the people who
report to you.
That's leadership.
And how do you do that?
Now that's the million-dollarquestion.

(48:27):
But I think, like Rudy wouldsay, probably the first step in
that is seeing the good in themfirst, because you really can't
help somebody if you're notvested in them.
And how do you be invested insomebody that you don't see the
good in?
I mean, I think that's one ofthe most valuable lessons I'll
take out of today is and Iwonder how often I do that I
wonder if I'm seeing the goodpeople around me.
I try to stay positive, but isthat enough?

Frank (48:47):
I mean, that's a new lesson.
It is, and he changed my life.
He ended up working for my realestate company for a while.
When he retired, he wanted tomake a few more bucks and
negotiated a new truck inMichigan and I never.
And whatever.
And his wife is amazing man.
I mean she just his kids.
I mean he's just got abeautiful family inside and out,
but I never checked thecheckbook, I never questioned

(49:10):
him on the money.
He just did what he wanted todo and ran the real estate
company and it was really awin-win relationship.
But the other learning.
Brian came after he passed away.
I used to teach classes.
What are people going to sayabout you when you're gone?
Who's going to show up?
What impact did you make inthis life?

(49:34):
Sometimes I'd say to people thatwere working so many hours and
not paying attention to theirfamily or doing whatever, I
think I say, boy, this guyreally was successful.
He worked 60 hours a week untilhe was 72 years old.
Sure, he missed some baseballgames for his kids.
Sure, he didn't see thegrandkids that often.
He never traveled with his wife, but, boy, he was really

(49:56):
successful at work.
How stupid is that?
Oh, it's about everything else.
He was really successful atwork.
How stupid is that?
Oh, it's about everything elseyou know.
At his funeral it's crazy.
I mean two funerals I've beento that have been impactful my
uncle's, who was a priest, andto watch the Catholic Church

(50:18):
come in and celebrate that andthe parishioners.
It was mind-boggling.
I bet Mind-boggling.
But at Rudy's funeral, oh myGod, there's 400 or 500 people
there in a small town, peopletalking about.
He changed my life, he wasinspirational.
He did this, he did that.

(50:38):
His kids got up and spoke andtalked about how are they going
to fill his big shoes and theywere happy for him because
they're Christians and he'sgoing to a better place and he's
no pain.
He's just doing what he doesbest and be Rudy.
But you could see the pain inwatching him leave and Sarah

(51:02):
flew in, my whole family's therecrazy.
But I thought to myself as I'msitting there Brian, I can do
better.
I mean, if I passed away, Ihaven't had this impact and I
think it's going to change andit has who I am and what I'm

(51:23):
willing to do to help people andmaybe see the good and exploit
the good and make a difference.
And you know how lucky am I tohave that guy in my life.

Brian (51:35):
You can't put a value on that.
You really can't.
The question is now for all ofus out there.
As you're talking, I'm startingto get emotional and I'm
thinking of the same thing.
I focus a lot on my work and Ilove what I do and obviously I'm
close to my.
Actually, my daughter sellsright now because she's flying.

(51:56):
She's in Virginia right now onbusiness.
So I'm up here getting mygrandson off to school every
morning, up to his four-year-oldschool that he goes to.
So I think I do a lot of thosethings that you would say are
really worthy.
But the question that I thoughtof when you were talking about
Rudy's impact is how engaged amI when I'm doing those things?

(52:17):
It's not just checking off abox to do things for your kids
or grandkids or community orchurch.
It's also are you engaged indoing it?
Are you there?
Are you present when you'redoing it?
And I would think a man likeRudy if you I'm sure you can
attest to this, frank, when hewas with you he was engaged in
you, like he was present withthe conversation, with your life

(52:37):
with you, know the questions heasked you and the lessons he
taught you fully present, and Ithink that's the difference for
a lot of true impactful peopleis their level of engagement and
their presence.

Frank (52:49):
Yeah, I agree.
I mean, when I was with Rudyand I need to do a better job of
this I felt like I was his onefriend, his best friend, right,
and I think about how manypeople thought the same thing
because he was fully engaged inyou, his wife Diana too.
I mean, they both were soengaged and caring and I'll tell

(53:12):
you this will blow your mind alittle bit we always prayed when
we went out to eat, right?
But if the waitress was there,we'd be holding hands and you'd
look at her and say what's yourname, is there anything going on
in your life that you'd like usto pray for you about?
And we would say a prayer forthat person.
And it's small, but does thatnot define somebody who cares in

(53:38):
life and wants to make adifference?

Brian (53:43):
Yeah, I mean you look at him and that guy's, his legacy
will live on for generations.
The name may be forgotten atsome point down the road, but
his legacy lives on.
And a lot of people whose namesare very well known it may be
well known for decades to comeor generations to come, but
they're really the lessonsthey've given us are gone.
They just know the name youknow, and I think that's such a

(54:05):
big difference.
I don't care if my name isremembered, but the lessons
we've lived and I think that'swhat Rudy did, let's call it.
In 100 years, probably Rudywon't be a name anybody's going
to be talking about, but yet thelessons will live on through
you, through your children andgrandchildren and
great-grandchildren and thepeople you've impacted in your
life.
To me, that's what success is.
It really is.
It's hard to tell somebodywho's young that that is the

(54:28):
definition of success and Ithink maybe that comes later, in
your 40s and 50s and 60s.
But that is really the truedefinition of success.
When you break it all down,that's what it is.
Like you said earlier, it's not.
He worked 70 hours a week untilhe was 72 and made all this
money and built this empire.
It's that.
That's not it.
It's just truly not.
That's not it, it's just trulynot.

(54:49):
And you know, I thank God forpeople like Rudy in your life,
because you've definitely takenRudy's lessons, frank, and have
lived them, and that's why thefeedback I get from you
constantly is all positive, notjust the professional, but the
personal aspect as well.
I appreciate that You're Rudytoo, rudy 2.0.

Frank (55:14):
I aspire, rudy, in progress, but you know.
Back to the energy hours.
I asked one of the people Icoach and I only coach five
people right Every other MondayI spend coaching good friends.
They've become good friends andI'm making a difference, so I
love doing it.
But we were talking aboutenergy hours Like how many
energy hours have you given yourfamily?

(55:36):
I get you have them at work, butdo you have any left when you
come home at night for theweekend?
And how many leaders giveeverything they have at the
office and come home and don'tdo the same thing at the house?
Like, why do you work?
I mean, I'm going to ask forsaying this, but the last three

(55:58):
or four years I did my job.
I wasn't loving it, it was adifferent job and I was doing it
for the money.
Yeah, I was doing it because Iknew if I held on for a few
years I'd have enough dough tonever work again and that was
inspiring to me.
But I always worked to takecare of my family, to go do the
things in life that I want to doand to give my family the

(56:21):
options.
My kid will come out of lawschool no debt.
My other kid will be aveterinarian.
No debt Not that that is huge,but that's gratifying.
That's what I want to do withmy money.
I don't need to go buy a 10,000square foot house on the water.
That's not my style, you knowthat.

Brian (56:44):
It goes back to the old adage, and I think this is Ayn
Rand's statement you don't liveto work, you work to live.
You work to improve your lifeand the life of others, but you
don't live to work and thosepeople who do that typically
don't have a really good life towork for anyway.
Down the road and I do think,frank, when you do that
lifestyle and I don't know ifthis is anecdotal, but I've seen

(57:07):
people who put everything theyhave into the work for decades,
their personal life suffers.
Their health, their familyrelationships across the board,
those crumble.
And in the last couple ofdecades of their work, now it
starts to crumble as well.
Because I think you need thatfoundation.
I think you need thatfoundation.
You may still be as successfulat work, but you will never be

(57:29):
as successful as you could be ifyou took care of your family,
you took care of your physicalhealth, your spiritual health,
your mental health, and you hadgood, solid friends and
relationships around you.
To me, that's the foundationfor me.
Anyway.
If it wasn't for my mom, mykids, my grandkids, my friends,
jackie, people like you in mylife, I know I would not have

(57:52):
the motivation to do what I doyou know, there's no foundation
left anymore.
I think when I was younger itwas different.
You know, really I had my momand I had my daughter, who I,
you know, aspired to impact andmake their lives better.
But now you have more peoplewho love you and trust you and
respect you and appreciate you,and you feel the same way back
to them.
To me, that's a motivation forme to get better at my work, to

(58:14):
take care of myself betterphysically, spiritually,
emotionally, mentally.
But some people just don't havethat anymore because they've
spent so much time focusing onlyon their professional life and
I think that's a sad.
I think it's a sad event and Ijust see it far too often.

Frank (58:29):
It is, and you know I'm a huge believer in a model work
week is staying consistent, butit's.
You know, I've had people inthe past that have them write
down, especially when I was withAmeriprise as a leader.
I would say you know, writedown what's most important to
you.
You know you've got work,family, you know religion, your

(58:54):
kids, health, you know whateverit is four, five, six things.
And I said, all right, nextthing, give yourself a letter
grade in each.
How do you think you're doingversus how you want to do?
And then we talk about it andyou know the simple thing is
what are the two or three thingsthat you need to do in the
stuff that you're not gettingthe grade that you want?
What are the two or threethings you can do, add to your
model work week to make adifference.
You know Doug Lennox used tosay have a date night.

(59:15):
You know, put a date night inthere, guarantee it.
Simple things.
But I think people get soworked up, they're working so
many hours, they're so focusedon one thing that they don't
lift up their head and lookaround what's really going on,
right?

Brian (59:32):
now?
Well, I think Stephen Coveysaid it best.
You climb the ladder of successand at some point you realize
it was leaning against the wrongwall the entire time.
That's a common element.
Frank, before we wrap up, canyou please explain to the
audience what you mean by modelweek?
Some people might wonder whatyou mean by that.

Frank (59:52):
So, as I think about a model work week, I like
consistency, right, it is Mondaythrough Friday and I used to
use the example of I would havegreen, yellow, red and I would
use.
You know, my dad, before webought the restaurant, worked
for AMC and he would getovertime.
So green is normal hours.
These are the 35 hours that I'mgoing to work a week.
Yellow is overtime, which isdouble pay, right, that might be

(01:00:17):
five or 10 hours and then thereis triple time in there.
You know he always workedChristmas when he was at AMC.
Why?
Because he's made a fortunedoing it.
You know, if he missedChristmas, half of Christmas
he'd be able to spend more timewith us or buy more gifts or
whatever it was.
I don't know.
Pay the bills, probably.
But inside of my model workweek I'm like I'm going to work

(01:00:38):
eight to five, let's say,example, monday through Friday,
and I never did that, but let'ssay we did.
I did it early on, but not laterin my career I didn't like
working that much.
But eight to five, where am Igoing to work out four or five
times a week?
Where does that fit into mymodel work week?
I put that in there.

(01:00:58):
You know, if I have a datenight, what do I put there?
If I'm going to haveone-on-ones with my people,
where do I put those in?
And I fill the model work weekup.
And, generally speaking, onFridays, to keep it simple, I'd
put busy work at the end of theday book work or stuff that I
could do, that I didn't need tobe in the office for
Face-to-face meetings.
I would never put on a Fridayafternoon because I wanted to

(01:01:18):
cook out early and I'd pullstuff forward.
I always pulled stuff offFriday if I had free time during
the week so I could cook outearly.
That consistency, I think,creates out early.
But that consistency I thinkcreates a discipline.
You know and I just talked to myson about this the other day he
does one-on-one with a couplepeople who work for him.
I'm like I'm going to go fromthe car.

(01:01:39):
I'm like we've talked aboutthis Never do a one-on-one when
somebody works for you from thecar, as disrespectful as you can
be, sit your ass behind a deskand listen to them.
It could be a phone call, butlisten to them and give them
100% of your attention In thecar.
That's an insult.
Never do that.
But that would be in my modelwork week.

(01:01:59):
That has to happen right.
If they work for me, I owe itto them to give them the time
and energy to help develop themor answer their questions or
coach them or whatever.
It is time and energy to helpdevelop them or answer their
questions or coach them orwhatever.
It is A huge believer in amodel work week, huge believer.

Brian (01:02:14):
Well, I know I used to do the model work week back in the
day.
I remember I didn't have colorsbut I had.
From this time I'm doing thisand focus and it works so well.
You know, it's like one ofthose things where nothing fails
, like success.
It works so well for me.
I forgot I stopped doing it,but I do a point system.
It's very similar now that Ispend so much time on these
certain activities every weekand I give myself points for it

(01:02:36):
and that makes me focus on thethings that you know are good
for my clients and my practiceand creating more wealth for
others and myself.
But I find what you said earlierabout the consistency and I
think that's the thing that mostpeople don't realize is the
importance of consistency.
And my sister told me a fewyears ago and she was making fun

(01:02:56):
of me about you're so rigidwith certain things that you do,
and she said well, I kind oflike to.
I like to.
She was wanting to be morespontaneous.
Because I get up at 4.30 everymorning.
My morning looks the same.
My daughter came down thismorning at 4.35 because she had
to fly out at like 6.30.
So I'm at her house andobviously I'm in the living room
.
She walks in at 5.35.

(01:03:18):
I'm doing planks in her livingroom floor and she just started
laughing at me.
It's a good morning and I'msitting in a plank position and
I know people think it's funnyand it's kind of odd and quirky
but that first two hours of myday is so rigidly consistent.
I do the exact same thing andthat sets up the consistency for
the rest of the day.
And the caveat to that,according back to my sister's

(01:03:40):
comment, is because I do that, Ihave a lot more flexibility on
the other times of the week thatbecause the foundation has been
met, I've poured the foundationand so the rest of the day,
like on Saturdays and Sundays, Ihave a lot of I'm done at noon
Shit.
I'm done by 1030 on Fridays ifI want to be with coaching, and

(01:04:00):
Mondays I don't see clients.
So that consistency of pouringthe foundation during the work
week or during the week orwhatever time of day, whatever
it is, that gives so much moreflexibility down the road.
The rest of the day, theevening, the afternoons,
vacations, whatever it is, butyou got to pour that foundation

(01:04:21):
first.

Frank (01:04:21):
You got to remain really disciplined with that
consistency.
That's my thing yeah 100% and Iwould color code it because if
I'm going to work late, it needsto be important, right?
If I'm going to work on aSunday for something, and I'll
take it, because I mean, if aclient calls me on a Sunday,
most likely somebody died, right?
They're calling me for a reason.
I'm going to take that call,but I want to be respectful of

(01:04:43):
my time.
It's not about working 50, 60hours a week, it's about getting
the job done, and I'll havepeople tell me I don't have time
to work out.
You don't have 20 minutes a dayto work out, 30 minutes a day.
You can't find 30 minutes.
We've got a whole different setof issues and that's really the
issue, right.
30 minutes, no, because you'renot focused at the office and

(01:05:06):
getting stuff done.

Brian (01:05:08):
And then you get done and you're not focused at the
office.
You get done, you're more tired, you're more stressed.
Therefore your body doesn'thave the energy.
Therefore your willpower wanesbecause you don't have your.
You're exhausted.
But when you get good stuff,good quality work done at the
office, you typically have morephysical and emotional energy.
When you're done with the day,it's you know.
It's just how it works.
You go to a busy restaurant.
Those people are energized.

(01:05:30):
They get off work.
They could go work out.
You go to a dead restaurantwhere there's one or two people
in the restaurant and the waitthe servers are walking around,
standing around waiting for youto finish your dessert so you
can clear your plate or clearyour table.
Those people don't have anyenergy by the end of the day.
They're tired and I that's.
That's my thoughts on that, andone of the things that I think

(01:05:51):
that people need to grasp moreis their morning routines.
That's one thing.
I'm a dead set.
I swear by the mornings.
I think the way you set yourmornings up is the most
important thing you can doduring the day, because you're
not going to do stupid shit inthe morning, you're probably not
going to drink, you're notgoing to get up and watch TV,

(01:06:12):
probably, and lay around eatingCheetos.
Your mornings are a time whenyou have energy and take
advantage of that first hour,that first two hours, whatever
it is, and do what developsyourself for the rest of the day
.
Then you go to work and youcome home and you've got shit
done.
You've got your workout done,your reading done, you've got
your prayer done, you've gotyour meditation, whatever you

(01:06:32):
want to do to set yourself up.
I wish more people would dothose things and I've got a lot
of my clients doing them.
But the one thing they won't dois take a nice cold shower
every day.
That's the one thing I can'tget anybody to do.
I got a couple people to do itfor like 30 seconds, cause
that's the I don't do.
I don't show her first thing inthe morning, but it's one of my
things I do and I I never turnthe water on on a warm.

(01:06:53):
It's cold, other than Sundaysor Saturdays.
I take a warm, a normal shower,but Sunday through Friday it's
cold, ice cold shower, and butthat to me I hate it, but it's
something that I do.
That says it's a tone, it's akind of a trigger for me to say,
okay, now I can go start myprofessional day.

(01:07:13):
You brought up somethingearlier.
I just want to jump on realquick before we wrap up.
Frank, you said one of thethings that people say is I
don't have the half an hour towork out.
Another thing that bothers me isI tell people they ask me
what's one of the keys tosuccess, and I always tell them
read books.
I don't care what you read,read books.
Don't read stuff on theinternet all the time.
That's okay too, but pick up abook and read it.
A biography of self-helpdevelop.

(01:07:34):
You know psychology.
Read a good fictional novel,hell.
Read romance, I don't care.
Read something, get your mindinvolved somehow.
And they always say I don'thave time to read.
What do you think?
The people who read are likethe least successful people in
the world, so they have all thistime of the day.
No, the most successful peopleI know read a lot.
You're a good example of that.
You've always been a reader.

Frank (01:07:57):
Yeah, 100.
I mean, I'm very well readbecause I needed to right.
Early in your career you readto learn.
You just read stuff to explore.
I think later in your life youread stuff to solve problems,
right yeah Right, and you'retrying to identify.
But you know, you and Byrontalked about personal growth

(01:08:18):
plus cash equals compensation.
It was my favorite.
I talk about that so often withpeople If you're not growing,
you're dying.
I mean Ray Kroc, I think RayKroc wrote a book on that early
in my career and I I pasted thatsomeplace.
Um, you know, if you're notgrowing, you're dying and it's
are you bringing new ideas and I?

(01:08:38):
But I also think reading thesame book like stephen covey's
book, I don't know, that's ahard book to read, I think the
lessons are invaluable.
Yeah, I think it's a boring book.
Personally speaking, I like thestories.
How many times have you read it.
I bet a dozen.
Yeah, I'm about probably sevenweeks.
I used to teach classes on thatbook.
We'd have a seven-week class.

(01:08:59):
We had seven weeks on eachhabit, right, yeah, but you and
I hired in underneath the leader.
We did.
He forced us to read books,remember?
He'd be at a management meetingand be like all right, take out
a pencil and paper.
Yeah, name the characters, namethis, name this.
You better get a writer.
You're going to get sent home.
I mean, when you think aboutthat, he forced us to grow

(01:09:23):
personally and to engage andthat made a huge difference in,
I think, a lot of people'scareers.
There's no new idea.
You're not going to makeanything up.
Somebody's already solved thatproblem that we're dealing with.
I used to say take their stickand beat them with it.
I'd go to a conference and I'dlisten to the leaders talk and

(01:09:44):
I'd always look at the numbers.
And if the numbers werehorrible and they're speaking, I
and I always look at thenumbers, and if the numbers were
horrible and they're speaking,I would put my earmuffs on.
I'd look at my manager like,yeah, don't take notes, bad idea
.
But if they were good, I'd takeyour idea, execute it exactly
the way they said.
And I'd say I'm going to takethat stick and I'm going to beat
you with it, which means I'mgoing to take your idea, I'm

(01:10:05):
just going to execute it better.
What do I need to come up witha new idea for?

Brian (01:10:09):
right, it's out there already.
Well, you and I talked aboutthis a couple of weeks ago and
it was funny when you sent sammy way whatever that was two
weeks ago to talk to him alittle bit and he had said yeah,
frank walked in and put a bookon the you guys were having
lunch, I think it was.
He put a book on the table andsaid read this, the e-myth
revisited by michael gerber.
I said it's so ironic that thathappened, because I remember

(01:10:31):
and I know we talked about thisbefore Frank, but I'll tell the
audience when we were inMonterey, california, at that
leadership conference and youand I what I remember, you had
rented a Chrysler LeBaronconvertible.

Frank (01:10:42):
I don't know if that's what it was, I think you're
right, I think you're right, Ithink, you're right, I think
you're right.
It was definitely a convertible.
The LeBaron at the time wouldhave fit.

Brian (01:10:49):
Yeah, and I think it was.
And you and I, willie, went upin the Big Sur Mountains and
there was an old bookstore likea used bookstore.
We walked in, I bought a couplebooks.
One of them was the E this waswhat 30 years ago, 31 years ago,
and I bought the E-MythRevisited when I got home,
didn't read it for, probablytouch it for three or four years
.
And then I started coaching andI was coaching some people in an

(01:11:11):
architect in Ann Arbor who wasstruggling, struggling and going
through divorce.
He ran his practice out of his,out of his house and I'm.
He was my very first client andwhen I left the American
express and started doing this,he was the first guy I called,
got him as a client and Icoached him for 12 years maybe.
Came to my wedding, gave me hisconvertible BMW Z3 for my

(01:11:35):
wedding gift to take it for amonth and drive it around the
state of Michigan.
That was my wedding gift.
He became a good friend of mineand while I was coaching him I
realized some problems he hadand I thought, yeah, I'm going

(01:12:03):
to pull this book out, theE-Myth and I pulled it out.
I read it.
I'm like holy shit, this isgood material and I coached him
on that material for two years,went through the book and it
transformed his life to thepoint when he finally retired.
He know a lot of it had to dowith you getting my head on
straight, brian, but he alsolanded some really big houses in
the Ann Arbor area.
I mean massive homes that hebuilt and designed.
But the point was, is that onebook that we stopped and found
at a really weird used bookstorein the big Sur Mountains of
California?

(01:12:23):
That book, once I read ittransformed the way I thought
about business and ittransformed my clients.
Book once I read it transformedthe way I thought about
business and it transformed myclients.
Had I never read that?
You know it was a big impetusto me growing more, working with
smaller businesses.
You know, and I think that ifyou take, if you miss the
opportunity to read a good bookI mean you don't even know the

(01:12:43):
it's a you don't know whatopportunity you've lost by not
reading that book.
And there's something in everysingle book there's something
you can gain.
I don't care what book.
I'm reading the fifth book ofHarry Potter right now and I'm
learning stuff in that book.
I bring my pen to myhighlighter when I read that
book and I get stuff out of thatthat I think I can use in life
or that I relate to.

Frank (01:13:05):
It is because when you read a book, you've got a
specific situation.
You're living in that day,right, and you're applying what
your current situation is to thebook.
And I think a lot of thesebooks you could read today and
get one thing.
Read a year later and getsomething completely different,
because you're dealing with adifferent issue, a different
concern or a differentopportunity and you're using

(01:13:28):
that to help you think through aproblem.

Brian (01:13:31):
I think Hans said one time every fifth book, reread a
book you've already read.
I haven't done that that way,but I do reread a lot of books.
I mean Habits.
Seven Habits I think I've read.
I always say I read it everyother year or every year.
I really haven't, I guess, whenI think about it, I have
probably read it eight times.

(01:13:51):
I would say Maybe ten, I don'tknow.
Simple Genius I've read a bunchof times.
Atlas Shrugged, I think I'veread six times.
Fountainhead, five or six times.
Leadership, secrets of Attilathe Hun I've read, I don't know,
15, 20 times.
There's books that I just Allgreat books, All great books.

Frank (01:14:03):
They're all good books.
Ali Shrug is a bear to getthrough the speech.
Don John Galt's speech at theend.
Oh my, it's like a book initself.

Brian (01:14:12):
It is.
Well, I have to be honest, I'veonly read the book once.
I've listened to the audibleversion, which I think is 36
hours long.
I've listened to that four,five, six times, you know, just
driving.
I just started the Fountainheadthe other day.
Again, I'm reading but I don'tdo a lot of audible books, but I
do always have one going thatwhen I'm showering or working

(01:14:33):
out I'll have it, or drivingI'll have it on, but that's not
my sole source.
But I thought I love theFountainhead more than I like
Atlas Shrugged.
To be honest with you, I thinkit's a better book.
I relate to the characterHoward work more than You're
right.
Build it your way or tear itdown.
Tear it down, man.
That's exactly what it is.
I love that concept man.
He gave me the blueprints.
If you don't build the buildingmy way, I'm going to tear it

(01:14:54):
down.
Kind of an asshole way to livelife.
But there's a lot of truth toit as well.

Frank (01:15:00):
That was a great book.
I think the movie was okay, butthe book was much better.

Brian (01:15:04):
Which is true most of the time.
Gregory Peck who is it NotGregory Peck?
Gary Cooper, that old yeah, Ithink it was.
Have you seen the new AtlasShrugged, that little miniseries
that came out a few years ago?

Frank (01:15:17):
I saw the first.
Was there two of them right?
I saw the first one and itwasn't that good.
No, but the miniseries isbetter.

Brian (01:15:25):
I didn't see that.
I thought it was a two-partseries, but I think they had the
rights to the movie and if theydidn't make it they were going
to lose the rights.
So they threw a bunch of shittyactors and actresses in there
and they just made it.
It was okay, but it was kind ofcliche.
I thought it was kind of Idon't know, it was kind of corny
, but it was still okay.
Well, brother, another hour and15 minutes of throwing wisdom

(01:15:50):
out there.
You probably have another 10hours we could go, I'm sure.
But I know you're a busy man.
You got being fully retired now, or at least 99% retired.
What do you do today?
Do you go to early dinner atlike 4 o'clock?

Frank (01:16:05):
You know I've been up I work out.
I told you I have a couple cupsof coffee.
I read the newspaper.
I've been up, I worked out.
I told you I have a couple cupsof coffee.
I read the newspaper.
I go work out.
I cleaned the pool, I cleanedoff the decks my wife's at our
house in Florida, so I'm home bymyself.
The baby's here.
The vet she's doing an internright now.
She's gone all day and I'mgoing to go to my in-laws and
check on them this afternoonthey're an hour and a half away

(01:16:28):
and just make sure everything'sgoing good with them.
I love it.
I'll call a couple people on myway there.
Life is good.

Brian (01:16:37):
It is, brother.
Well, you definitely haveearned it and you deserve it.
Man, You're worthy of the lifeyou're living because you've
changed a lot of lives,including mine.
I appreciate you, brother.
Likewise I appreciate it.
I don't say that I wouldn't saythis to you often, but I hope
you always know that I'm alwaysin your corner and I love you,
man.
I appreciate that Damn A littlesexy talk at the end.
I'm going to make you cry.
Yet I tried my hardest, man,I'm going to see you cry on the

(01:16:59):
show.
When you said I'm going to getteared up, I'm just kidding.
All right, can you stay on thephone for a few minutes after
we're done here?
Absolutely All right.
Well, brother, I appreciate youagain, one of the greatest men
of my life, one of the mostimpactful people of my career
and my professional and personallife.
So I appreciate you coming backon the show.
Hey, thanks, you're welcome.

(01:17:21):
Thanks, brother, all right,everyone.
Hey, I know right now I'm goingto get a lot of heart letters
on this episode.
We did last time Frank was on.
This one was even better in myopinion.
It was much more free-flowingand just a natural, authentic
conversation Wisdom that Frankshared.
I mean, I've got a page ofnotes here that I'm going to
dissect and I've learned a lotof things that I know I need to

(01:17:41):
work on.
So I know you're going to get alot of value of it.
I'm going to ask you to do acouple of things for me.
Audience Number one, first andforemost, please share this with
three to five people you careabout.
You've got that young personcoming out of college, or out of
school going into their career,military, trade school,
whatever it is.
Share this with them.
This is stuff I wish I wouldhave known at 20, 25 years old.

(01:18:02):
Also, anybody you know rightnow who just needs a little
boost in life, who you may thinkhey, this person could get some
value from what Frank said.
This is after 30 some years ofFrank's life experience in the
professional world and 50 someyears of living a good life
there's a lot of value thatsomebody could benefit from.
So please do that, first andforemost, and please rate the

(01:18:23):
episode, rate the show,subscribe and, most importantly,
please get out there and liveyour life, strive to be your
best, show love and respect toothers and yourself, and live
with intention and live withpurpose.
Until next time, I hope you allknow how much I appreciate each
and every one of you.
Take care.

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