Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hello and welcome to the Bamboo Lab Podcast with your
host, peak Performance Coach,brian Bosley.
Are you stuck on the hamsterwheel of life, spinning and
spinning but not really movingforward?
Are you ready to jump off andsoar?
Are you finally ready to sculptyour life?
If so, you've landed in theright place.
(00:21):
This podcast is created andbroadcast just for you, all of
you strivers, thrivers andsurvivors out there.
If you'd like to learn moreabout Brian and the Bamboo Lab,
feel free to reach out toexplore your true peak level at
wwwbamboolab3.com.
Speaker 2 (00:41):
Welcome everyone to this week's episode of the
Bamboo Lab Podcast.
As always, I'm your host, brian, and I got to tell you.
A couple of weeks ago I got aFacebook message from a friend
of mine and she said hey, weworked with this author and we'd
(01:01):
love to have you interview himon your show.
And I get a lot of those and alot of times they don't turn out
what I'm expecting.
Sometimes they do, you luck out.
So anyway, I right away reachedout to this particular
gentleman and we had a goodconversation on the phone a few
days later and I've been soexcited and I told one of my
clients this morning I'm soexcited for today's interview.
(01:22):
We have a gentleman on todaythat has worn many hats in his
career.
I mean, he's a retired seniorAir Force officer.
He was a CEO of an informationIT company, he was a pilot now
soon to be retired commercialairline pilot.
He is an author and is a PhD inorganizational and industrial
(01:43):
psychology.
I mean, that's five lifetimesfor most people right there.
So, without further ado, my newfriend, ray Phillips.
Welcome to the Bamboo Labpodcast.
Speaker 3 (01:53):
Well, brian, thank you so much, and I'm just very
excited to be here.
Speaker 2 (01:58):
Well, you know, ray, we had a good conversation
several days ago and we got toknow each other a little bit.
Of course, we were able to talkbefore we recorded today, but
can you please share with theBamboo Pack out there a little
bit about yourself, where you'refrom, your family, and we'll go
from there?
Speaker 3 (02:13):
You bet.
Yeah, I'm a Colorado native,believe it or not, born in
Denver, raised north of Denverin a small town called Loveland,
ended up going to the UnitedStates Air Force Academy for
college and then was in the AirForce for 23 years as a pilot,
and I'm very fortunate.
I've been on every continent,I've traveled the world and just
(02:35):
seen some amazing things,retired from the Air Force after
23 years and helped a guy run asmall IT services company and
just a really kind of a startup,and we grew that company in
seven years to something prettysignificant and that was very
enlightening.
And what I didn't tell you is,growing up in Colorado, my
(02:58):
grandparents lived near the oldDenver Stapleton Airport and
when I would visit them as ayoung person they would take me
to the airport.
They asked what I wanted to doand I said I'd love to go to the
airport and we'd go to a placecalled the Red Baron Lounge and
have lunch and I could watchairplanes take off and land.
And so I got the bug early onand was fortunate enough to fly
in the military and stayedflying in general aviation while
(03:22):
I helped run a small ITservices company.
But then my passion was to comeback to do that.
So I just am about to finish a12-year career as an airline
pilot and have just adoredflying.
I was telling somebody todayyou know it's embarrassing and
they said you shouldn't beembarrassed.
But it's embarrassing whensomebody says, well, how long
(03:43):
have you been flying?
And I used to, you know, 15years ago I say, oh yeah, I've
been flying for 28 years and Ifelt really proud about that.
Well, now it's over 40.
And so 40 makes me sound verymature and I fly with a lot of
new first officers that I couldtake 40 and cut it in half and
(04:04):
add two or three, and that wouldbe about how old they are.
So I'm I'm blessed because I Iget to be in a mentorship and
share some of that knowledgewith them, but I've just enjoyed
all the different things thatI've been fortunate enough to
get the opportunity to do andthen.
Speaker 2 (04:16):
So I I know this, but the audience doesn't know this
that you are on this.
I'm going to call it your finalflight right now, or not right
now, but this next few days,right.
Speaker 3 (04:27):
Yeah, in fact it's kind of a neat thing so what you
do as you approach that, andfor me it's a mandatory
retirement at age 65.
So my birthday is on the 12thof June, so it's not too far
away.
It's nine days from today, andso I've got a last trip set up.
And what is really kind of aneat tradition is, as you get
(04:48):
ready for your final flight,they'll do a celebration, a gate
celebration, and so I've had awonderful day today because I
flew from Phoenix to Denver.
I got to the gate in Denver andwe had a water cannon ceremony,
where two fire trucks are oneach side of the airplane
arching water over the airplaneas it pulls into parking, and I
(05:09):
had my family and friends andeverybody out there, and so it
is the culmination, in a perfectway, of that aviation career.
And I tell other people, youknow the three things I've done
the military, the CEO and thisI've always left the table
hungry.
I certainly would love to domore, but've always left the
table hungry.
I certainly would love to domore, but I'm leaving the table
hungry in each case and that's agood thing to do.
Speaker 2 (05:32):
Well then, you went on to become an author.
You've been writing, I know so.
As everybody knows, ray haswritten two books so far.
One is called the Joy ofLeadership yes, finding Joy in
Leadership.
Finding Joy in Leadership, yeah.
And Finding Joy in your GoldenYears, which is your newest book
, isn't it?
That's correct.
Speaker 3 (05:51):
Yeah, the story of the authorship is a little bit
of a kind of an explanation ofhow I got there.
Everybody's seen the movieForrest Gump, and one day
Forrest just started running andthen he ran and ran and ran and
his beard got longer and thenone day he just stopped, and
(06:12):
that's kind of what happened tome.
When I was about 45.
I decided I would run amarathon and, and so I trained
for that Excuse me and then Iended up running that marathon,
not doing as well as I wanted todo, but deciding that I could
do better.
And so for the next 10 yearspretty much from 2004 till 2014,
(06:39):
I was running marathons, up toalmost four to five a year and
out there running 40 miles aweek, and I share that only
because when you do that, you doa lot of thinking.
And so during those training,runs and to include marathons, I
would just think about thingsthat were interesting to me and
I got to thinking, gosh, Ishould write a book.
(07:00):
And so I would start writing abook, and I was primarily
focused initially on leadership,because I was fascinated as to
why some organizations do sowell and some don't do so well,
and why some were synergisticand some were not synergistic,
and I've always been fascinatedby the concept of synergy.
(07:20):
I think it's an amazing thingbecause when you see it or when
you've tasted it, you long forit every time you get the chance
to experience it again.
So I had written a couplechapters and I came back from a
run, a training run, and I wassharing with my wife that I was
going to write a book and thereality of it is is I just
couldn't get past a couplechapters and I was just didn't
(07:43):
think I had the ability.
So this went on for a while andone day I shared again with her
my concerns and frustrations.
She said well, you should goback to school.
So I ended up going back andgetting my PhD in industrial and
organizational psychology andthe collateral benefits of that,
the rigors of going throughthat, made me a better thinker,
made me a better writer andhelped me get through that first
(08:04):
book.
And what I'm really proud aboutin that first book is, as we
mentioned, the title is FindingJoy in Leadership, but the
subtitle, which is really themost important title, is by
Developing Trust you Can CountOn, and during my PhD research I
came up with a process forbuilding trust that explains why
(08:27):
some organizations aresynergistic and why some
organizations are not, why someare successful and why others
are not.
And so really delighted by that.
And then that sparked me intothe next book, after that book
had done.
Very well, I'm approachingretirement, so I thought what
better way of therapy for myselfthan to write a book about how
(08:49):
to discover joy in your goldenyears?
And and uh, and so that was theimpetus of that book.
Speaker 2 (08:54):
Well, I know both books are five-star rated on
Amazon, so I'm really lookingforward to you know I don't.
I can't quite admit, ray, thatI'm ready for my golden years,
but I am excited about readingFinding Joy in Leadership.
I really am.
I looked at that, read thereviews and looked at the
context of it.
I'm like, yeah, that's my nextread after I finish Marshall
(09:21):
Goldsmith's book that I'mreading right now.
So you wear kind of a lot ofhats, obviously, but
professionally you've worn fivemajor hats I look at it this way
with the Air Force and the CEO,and then you know, commercial
airline pilot, author and thenPhD.
What or who inspired yougrowing up to kind of grab all
(09:41):
these different angles andactually do very, very well at
all of them?
Speaker 3 (09:47):
Well, I appreciate that question because I think it
is an important question forall of us to think about.
You know what motivates us?
And I had a unique circumstancegrowing up my dad was in the
Navy, had gone to medical schoolbut decided not to be a doctor,
and then was a chemist butunfortunately died at the age of
(10:08):
35.
And I'm a middle kid and so Ihave an older sister and a
younger brother, and when my dadwould go to work he'd always
look at me and he'd say OK, ray,you're the man of the house,
you take care of your mom andyour brother and sister.
And so I was only nine yearsold when that happened.
But it's interesting to me andI bring it up because I think it
(10:30):
was impactful the fact that hesaid he charged me with taking
care of my mom and my brothersand sisters at an early age kind
of imparted on me that it wasreally important to do that and
important to make sure that youdid the best that you could do
to provide and take care ofthose people.
(10:51):
And so that certainly wasinfluential and that's a very
serious story.
But let me go to a counterstory.
That's very influential as well.
So I was a big basketballplayer growing up and that was,
in fact, my sport.
And so, while the listeners maythink well, that's really
honorable Ray that you were theman of house and took care of
(11:12):
your brothers and sisters andmom, what I'm about to tell you
will let you know how normal Iam and how flawed I am.
And so, as a basketball player,I got a big head and I thought
it was about me.
I was a pretty good athlete andin fourth grade, um, when I was
playing there, I was at aCatholic school and I got to
play in fourth grade and I had acoach, a man named Bob Miles,
(11:34):
and, uh, I had a bad attitude.
I just did, I was prideful, Ithought things were for me and
not for the team.
And I remember one day were forme and not for the team.
And I remember one day BobMiles sat me down in the gym on
a lunch bench and told me thatthis was not about me and that
if I couldn't change my attitude, I no longer needed to be on
(11:57):
that team, that I needed anattitude adjustment and that the
greatest gift was in giving andnot receiving and thinking that
things were about you ratherthan thinking about what you
could do for others.
So that was pretty significant,and that was in fourth grade
and um.
So my dad empowering me, bobmiles, giving me a reality check
(12:18):
, and then my gift, my true gift, was a man named charles smith,
who I was fortunate enough inmy teenage informative years.
I ended up mowing his lawn anddigging post holes and doing all
the manual labor stuff.
And they had two young boysyounger than me, six years
younger and I think, eight yearsyounger, and my sister, my
(12:40):
older sister used to babysit inthe neighborhood and that's how
she earned her pay,no-transcript.
And so one day Charles Smithcame up to me, my next-door
neighbor, and he said, hey, doyou babysit?
And I go, I don't know, I'llfind out and let you know.
So I went home and I talked tomy mom and I said, hey, mom,
charles wants to know if Ibabysit.
I don't know if I babys or not.
(13:12):
And she said, well, you could,you could.
What is?
You know how old are the kids,all that stuff.
So, long story short, I ended uptaking care of his kids and
really mentoring.
He mentored me and collaterallyI was able to be a big brother
to them and he was so importantin my formative years.
He's the reason.
If I really narrowed it down,brian Charles told me one day he
said, ray, attitude iseverything and I internalized
that.
(13:32):
And so thank you for thecomments on five different roles
, but five different roles havejust been a blessing, because I
truly believe that attitude waseverything, that it was, that it
was a privilege to get to dothese different things and that
hopefully I could make adifference in others' lives by
my attitude and, you know,hopefully help them as they
(13:55):
helped me.
Speaker 2 (13:56):
Wow.
So right now I'm going to askyou some questions about your
books Okay, because I reallywant to get into those.
About your books, um, cause Ireally want to get into those.
Um, now, as I said, I'm alittle more interested in the
leadership one, but I knowthere's a lot of people out
there who are going into thosegolden years of life and that's
there's a lot of wisdom you'veyou've acquired in actually you
kind of going through that withlooking at your career, um,
(14:17):
commercial airlines coming to atail end as well as, um, you
know, doing the research you'vegot on the book.
I want to ask you, because Iwant to give a shout out right
now to two people Simon andLorena from Simon Golden LLC
were really instrumental inhelping you get that second book
written, and they were the oneswho referred you to me and I've
(14:38):
gotten to know them when I wasliving in Grand Rapids.
So can you tell us a little bitabout the experience Maybe
spend 30 seconds giving them ashout out and how that process
worked for you, because I too amcurious about using somebody to
help me get my book taken careof.
Speaker 3 (14:52):
Absolutely.
I had mentioned to you before westarted our podcast, and I
think it's worth sharing again,that I had written a book and I
did not have a book coach, andso I felt like you know I could
do this again and just likeanything, the more you do it,
the better you're going to get.
But Simon has an incrediblemarketing plan and, quite
(15:12):
honestly, lorena is reallybehind a lot of that and so he
reached out to me and onLinkedIn, I believe and so we
started a conversation and justreally interesting talking to
him and he just has a provenprocess for making books
interesting, readable,compelling, and he has the
(15:33):
reader in mind.
He clearly understands whatreaders are looking for and he
doesn't keep an author fromproducing what they want to
produce.
What he does is he allows theauthor to produce what they want
to produce and make it soreadable and so enjoyable that
that the book will will mostlikely enjoy great success
(15:54):
because of that.
So absolutely Couldn't be morepleased if I and I probably will
write another book and if I do,I absolutely work with with
Simon and Lorena again.
Speaker 2 (16:05):
Well, good.
So anybody out there who's anexecutive or an industrial
leader who's looking to write abook maybe you don't know how,
you don't know how to put thewords to paper, you can't seem
to find the time please click on, go to simongoldencom and
research what they have to do,because I can tell you I've not
used them, but I've heard,obviously, from you, great
things and I know them asindividuals.
(16:26):
They are top-notch people, soshout out to Simon Golden LLC.
Okay, so you're writing thislast book and you were writing
this book, ray, knowing thatyou're going into those golden
years yourself and you're like Isaid, your airline career was
kind of tailing down to whereyou are now, going on to your
next phase.
What were some of the greatlearnings you learned in
(16:46):
researching the book and writingthe book?
Speaker 3 (16:50):
Well, what really was the catalyst for me to be
curious about it and to then dothe research was I was all too
frequently hearing people saythat, oh my gosh, you know, I
know what you're feeling.
My dad retired two years agoand you know he was a big
executive and now he justdoesn't feel like he has purpose
(17:11):
anymore.
He kind of feels lost.
Or my mom, you know, is just,you know, she was a doctor, an
MD, and she's just remarkable,but we're just not sure what
she's going to do with her time.
I thought that's reallyinteresting and then I could
completely relate, I couldempathize, because I go whoa and
purpose is a big deal andfeeling relevance huge.
(17:32):
And so I did a lot of researchand it ends up that there's
studies out there that basicallysay and it's not a huge number,
but it's more than the averageit says almost 56% of people
retiring don't have a plan forhow they're going to spend their
time.
Now, most people are justphenomenal about financial
(17:55):
planning because that's anexpected practice and you work
so hard so that you have thefreedom to do what you want to
do when you retire.
But isn't it ironic you havethat freedom to do what you want
to do when you retire.
But isn't it ironic, you havethat freedom but you may not
have a plan.
And so after doing the researchI just said, well, what are the
components here?
And just to kind of highlightthose briefly, is it's
(18:17):
fascinating that in ourformative years, in junior high
school and high school, we'rereally trying to figure out who
we are and we're really curiousabout that.
And in junior high and highschool we're really trying to
figure out who we are and we'rereally curious about that.
And in junior high and highschool we start doing that.
Then we go off to college, andnow we're refining that a little
bit and we're starting tofigure out who we are.
And then we pick a major.
Everybody wants to know whatyour major is, because they want
(18:37):
to know what you're going to do, and you may not know.
And so you eventually picksomething.
You get into the workplace, andnow you haven't finished the
process of figuring out who youare, but you know what to say
when somebody says what do youdo?
Because what we say is what ourwork is.
And so now we become defined byour work.
And so the first step in this,in this discover joy in your
(18:58):
golden years is.
Really understanding is isfiguring out who you are,
deciding who you are, yourvalues, principles and character
, and then, through reflectionand figuring that out and
writing it down for yourself andit may not be complete, in fact
it won't be complete till theday we die.
We're ever evolving but whatthat does is that helps me
understand what's important tome, because when you finish
(19:21):
working in the professionalrealm now it's you, it's totally
just you.
Now it's you, it's totally justyou.
So who are you and what'simportant to you?
And after you figure that out,then you can say well, based on
all my life experiences andexpertise, the things I've done
in my life, where would I bestfit in?
Knowing who I am, where would Ifeel like I would best fit in?
(19:42):
Maybe it's volunteering, Maybeit's consulting, maybe it's
teaching at a university, whereis that?
So it's some taste tests to dothat, and so, again, that's a
little bit of experimentation,but, as opposed to just not
knowing, it gives you a path andthe reader, through journaling
in this book, decides that forthemselves.
And then, once you've decidedthat purpose, then it's about
(20:04):
setting goals for continuedgrowth.
You know, so many people feelthat retirement is the end.
You know, and it's and I love aquote that God gave me one time
he goes, don't ever peak, right.
And I said, really, you don'tever peak, he goes.
No, because the minute you peakit's only downhill from there,
and you don't want to peak, youwant to continue to grow and
(20:24):
realize new potential.
And then all of this then leadsto where I think joy resides,
and in your golden years, whichcould be absolutely
unequivocally the best years ofyour life.
Joy resides in your ability toimpact the relationships in your
life and impact those aroundyou by how you participate in
(20:47):
your communities, neighborhoods,et cetera.
And it's interestingly enoughand there may be some pushback
from people hearing this, but Ithink, if you think about it,
you may agree it's no longerabout the compensation you get
for the things you do, but it'sabout the rewards you get for
the things you give, how we helpthose people around us, how
baby boomers can help GenerationX to continue the transition
(21:11):
and help the millennials be evenmore successful, who are taking
over more and more managementroles.
And Generation Z what do wehave to contribute for their
success?
So that's a very long answer toa short question, but I think
that's the impetus I think it'sfantastic.
Speaker 2 (21:29):
I think it's fascinating.
I never really thought aboutroles shifting as we get older
until the last few years of mylife, as I've gotten older.
Coincidentally, on Sunday, oneof my best friends, kevin, sent
me.
Every Sunday he sends me avideo saying this is what I had
for breakfast today, and thiswas an art.
It was a video, I didn't care.
It was a interview, but it wason video format.
(21:51):
I listened to the first 20minutes of it and then we went
off for a hike so I didn't getto finish, but it was a PhD, it
was at Harvard professor, Ibelieve it was, and he's a
specialist in aging and hetalked about and this is just
just again 20 minutes of medoing this while I'm taking a
cold shower, so you know, inbrushing my teeth.
So I was.
I didn't get a chance to sitdown and take notes but
something to the effect of whenwe are younger, our brains are
(22:14):
more accustomed and moredesigned to build something, and
it is.
It isn't that we lose ourmotivation when we get older.
It's that our brain literallychanges to some degree where the
building of the thing that wewere always trying to accomplish
I call it our ambitions in lifechanges now to more of an
(22:36):
aspirational aspect.
It's now how can you impactothers around you, how can you
mentor and coach and influenceother generations, which I call
that more of an aspirationalapproach to life.
But he said it's biological too.
Our brains literally do changeand we find that when we're.
You know, I'm 58 years old.
I remember when I was 29 yearsold, starting my business, I had
(22:57):
the plans to build the world'slargest coaching and consulting
firm, and really that was nevera really important thing to me,
but I thought my brain wastelling me that's what you have
to do.
And it's over the past coupleof years.
A friend of mine another one ofmy best friends, dave out of
Texas, said you know, brian, youare not designed to build an
empire, your brain is designedto build the people who build
(23:26):
the empires.
And I thought, man, that's sotrue.
And the thing is, though, ray,for so much of my career I was
trying to build the empire,which was really swimming
against the current, because itwas never the way my brain was
designed anyway, it was to buildthe minds that build the
empires.
And once he said that it kind ofclicked in me like okay, and
(23:46):
that's the beauty of havingconversations with people that
you don't they're just eitherfriends or acquaintances or some
stranger like you mentionedlast week on the phone call,
some stranger on the airplanethat you talked to.
They can give you an idea that,if you're listening, can take
you in a new direction thatyou've never thought of.
That maybe a hired mentor,coach or a psychologist or a
(24:08):
therapist who couldn't really do.
It's something we those aregood too, but we have to be
looking for messages that peoplethat are just saying things
that just resonate with you.
You know, and I'd like you totell I think you told me a story
about something on a woman onan airplane, or you gave me an
example of how you find that youcan connect with leaning into
(24:30):
any conversation you can findsomething to make your life and
other lives better.
Was there a story behind thator were you just giving that as
an example when we talked lastweek?
Speaker 3 (24:41):
No, that's actually a story and, believe it or not,
it's in the first book, findingJoy in Leadership, and the way
the story goes is that I commuteto Phoenix.
I live in Colorado, but Icommute to Phoenix.
That's where I start my tripsout of, so I'm in the back of an
airplane quite often getting towork, and so I sit back there
(25:03):
and I'm fascinated by people andyou watch people as they get on
the airplane, and we all dothis.
You know, if you, if you have arow to yourself and you're on
the aisle seat, you don't wantto make eye contact with anybody
coming down the aisle becauseyou think they might get in your
row, you know those other twoseats that you don't want
anybody to occupy.
And I just watched that and Iwas fascinated by that and then
(25:26):
finally I said no, that's notthe case.
I said you know what?
I wonder?
I bet if I struck up aconversation with anybody,
anybody on this airplane, toinclude those people, when
you're sitting in the aisle seatand you look and you go, oh boy
, I wonder, I hope they don'tsit next to me.
What if you changed yourattitude and said, boy, how cool
(25:47):
would it be if they sat next tome.
I wonder what I could learnfrom them.
So it's a mindset and I foundand I proved it that if I sat
next to anyone, anyone that goton board the airplane, anyone, I
could learn something from themthat would make my life better.
And I hope and pray that Icould share something with them
that would make my life better.
And I hope and pray that Icould share something with them.
(26:08):
That would make their lifebetter.
And the way this story goes wasI sat down next to this
wonderful young lady and she waspart Native American, she grew
up on the West Coast and if youall did any of the listeners, or
brian, if you did an analysis,just an assessment, you say,
(26:29):
okay, well, let me try todescribe ray's attributes and
what perhaps some of his valuesand principles and beliefs are,
and you categorize those.
And then you, you took a lookat this other person, you did
the same.
You would probably, probablygather that maybe we're on
different poles, differentspectrums.
Well, guess what she sharedwith me?
We were talking about healingand this, by the way, was during
(26:55):
the COVID times, and we weretalking about healing.
And from her Native Americanexperiences, she held out her
right hand.
I was sitting on her right side, she held out her right hand
and it sitting on her right side.
She held out her right hand andit was in a fist, a clenched
fist, and she said, ray, it mynative american ancestors
believe that the power ofhealing was in your hand and all
(27:20):
you had to do was open yourhand and release it.
And so, if you picture that andif you picture a clenched fist,
you can see the tension in thefist and you go gosh, there's a
lot of tension in that fist,it's so clenched and so perhaps
to get rid of that tension, whatI need to do is relax my hand
(27:41):
and open up my fingers so thatit's no longer clenched and
release that tension and thatillustration that she gave me
and it really went beyond thetension, it went beyond a belief
and it was deeper, certainlythan that.
But I use that example in myfirst book because there's so
many times that we're in our ownway, we're creating beliefs or
(28:03):
tensions that are of our owndoing, and perhaps, if we want
to make a difference in thethings that matter, we just need
to release that tension andopen up our perspective, open up
our aperture to look at thingsfrom a different point of view.
And I just thought that wasremarkable and I cited her in
(28:24):
the book and I told her I would.
I said, if you don't mind, I'dlike to use this in my book.
And she said, of course.
And so the point is what abeautiful thing.
What if we viewed everyone,everyone to include?
Again, I spent time in theairport.
I never, and please, I'm notsaying any of this for any
gratification of me.
I'm saying it to make the pointbut I'm not saying any of this
(28:45):
for any gratification of me.
I'm saying it to make the pointthat I never miss the
opportunity to thank the personcleaning the bathrooms because,
gosh, if I got to talk to them,they'd probably share something
with me that would make my lifebetter, and I hope I could do
the same for them.
And there's just a lot ofpeople out there that that are
invisible or feel invisible, andwe need to make sure they know
they are visible.
Make sure they know they arevisible, and you can even.
Not only is that good for thesoul and it is but it's also
(29:08):
designed to make your lifebetter, because there's clues
out there.
We'll just open up our apertureand try to find them.
Speaker 2 (29:15):
That's beautiful.
You and I talked last week.
We were on this subject for afew moments and one of the
things that I thought of well,I've thought of this before as I
, in some of my coachingrelationships, I work on seeing
people in a third dimension.
I do believe when we go throughlife, whether we're at the
store, at a hotel, traveling ona plane, a train, wherever we
(29:38):
are, we do see peopletwo-dimensionally, you know, up
down sideways and that's what wesee.
But when you get to see, youget to spend some time talking
with them in a healthy, you know, mutual good, just a good solid
conversation, you see beyondwhat you see.
You see that you see into thedepth of them and you see them
(30:00):
in a third dimensionally.
Now it's like putting 3dglasses on, and I remember one
time I read a book, uh, and nowI'm gonna have to and I've had
um, gwendolyn bounds, wendybounds on the podcast twice.
She wrote.
She's written a couple offantastic books, um, little
chapel on the river, I think washer first book.
Um, and I hope I'm saying thatright.
(30:21):
I've read it twice.
Um, and it was a book about sheand her partner.
When they, when 9-11 hit, theyhad their apartment and their
apartment was destroyed.
So they went up to up river orupstate New York and they just
stopped at this little tavern,little Irish bar, and ended up
staying there for quite a whileI mean in the in the community
and would go in this bar andjust got to know all the
(30:43):
characters in the bar, all thepeople, and she wrote this book
about them.
And I remember I'm thinking, oh, my goodness, how many times
have I driven by a tavern or aschool or an office building or
whatever it might be, and justdrive by not realizing the life
that goes on behind those doors.
And I remember, after I finishedthe book, ray, I was driving to
(31:04):
the Grand Rapids airport to flyout somewhere for work.
And I remember driving by kindof a wetlands area on Patterson
Avenue in Grand Rapids, michigan, on the way to the airport.
And there was a wetlands areaand I looked at it thinking,
okay, here's another example.
All the life forms that are inthat wetlands the frogs, the
fish, the birds, the weas, knowthe weasels, the groundhogs,
(31:24):
whatever the muskrats, and howwe.
That was just an example of howmany times we just go through
life not seeing anything beyondwhat we see in front of us.
We don't look to.
You know, our peripheral visionis very weak and we don't look
to our right and to our left andup and down, and we don't
explore those other avenues oflife, those relationships, those
(31:45):
other communities, those othercultures, whatever it might be.
And when you do, and you do itwith an open heart and an open
mind there's so much power tothat and four years ago you
never would have convinced me ofthat.
Well, the book was the catalystwhen I read Gwendolyn Bounds
Wendy Bounds' book.
But it was really the start ofthis podcast thinking how many
(32:06):
amazing people You're.
The 145th episode in three anda half years of this show and
every person I have learnedsomething from and many of them
have become really good friendsof mine, people I'd never heard
of prior to interviewing them.
And I'm like everybody has astory.
Every single human being has astory that we could learn from,
(32:29):
we could teach them, they canteach us and we can make the
world a better place by thestory, experience and wisdom
that they have in their brains,and I think that's so powerful.
I loved, when you were sayingthat last week, that story of
the lady on the plane.
You know it's interesting.
I noticed, ray, like four orfive years ago I was having a
hard time sleeping and I noticedthat my hands were balled up
(32:49):
and like not clenched fists, butthey were balled up and I just
opened them up.
And so almost every night Ihave to consciously open my
fingers up and let them relax,and it's instantaneous for me
anyway.
I get more relaxed and that'show I fall asleep.
So, to play on what she saidabout healing, and I think that
just also it's symbolic ofopening up your heart and
(33:11):
opening up your mind, yes, andopening your eyes.
Well said, totally agree.
I want to ask you so thefinding joy in leadership.
You had mentioned a conceptwhen we talked on the phone
prior about mutualaccountability.
Yes, can you talk on thatsubject for the leaders and
executives and managers outthere, or really anybody raising
kids as a form of leadership?
Speaker 3 (33:33):
Absolutely, and I really do think this was the
biggest nugget from my PhDresearch research.
So, pure accountability, if wevisualize that it's basically
from a supervisor to an employeesaying, okay, so, brian, I work
(33:54):
for you.
So you would say to me, okay,ray, do you understand your job
description?
And I say, yes, yeah, brian, Ithink I do, I think I do.
And you say, okay, good, well,that's what we expect and we're
happy to have you on board.
So that's typicalaccountability.
If you pictured it in your mind.
In a way, it's kind of from thesupervisor down arrow pointing
(34:16):
down to the employee.
Mutual accountability is reallysimilar up to the point where
you ask me, brian, you say, okay, ray, do you understand your
job description?
And I say, yes, brian, I do.
And you say, okay, great, well,that's what we've hired you to
do.
And then you step across theline to me as my supervisor and
(34:39):
say, okay, ray, well, what doyou need from me for your
success?
And so if we visualize thatit's no longer from the
supervisor down to the employee,but it's on a parallel stream,
from the supervisor parallel tothe employee and the employee to
(34:59):
the supervisor in a two-way, ina mutual relationship, saying,
okay, I want you to besuccessful, ray.
So now that you've told me whatyou need from me, I will be
accountable to you to ensure Ido that.
And what I found was inorganizations that lived by
mutual accountability and, bythe way, my research fairly
(35:22):
extensive.
It's a very uncommon concept.
It exists in a lot of nonprofitorganizations, some
non-governmental organizations,some faith groups, but it is not
common throughout industry, andthe reason it's not is because
it takes a vulnerability fromthe supervisor to the employee.
(35:45):
But vulnerability can be a verypowerful thing.
But where it does exist, trustwithin those organizations is
remarkable.
And where trust is remarkable,creativity, innovation and
ingenuity explodes.
And so, when you think about it, in today's's marketplace,
where everybody's trying to getan edge, you can ask yourself
(36:06):
well, how do I get an edge?
Well, I can affect price, I canget more market share, I can do
all those things.
That's all true, but that'sfinite, I would argue it's
finite.
What's infinite is thecreativity, innovation and
ingenuity within the employeesthat you're privileged to lead,
and ingenuity within theemployees that you're privileged
(36:26):
to lead.
And when you can bring that out, you can launch a spaceship up
in the air, have the boosterfall off, the spaceship continue
and you can catch the booster.
I never would have thought thatwas possible, but it is, and
we're seeing things like that,and so that's the point.
The things that we haven'tthought about are out there and,
ironically, brian, it's nodifferent than the Native
(36:47):
American lady I talked to thatshared something with me that
made my life better.
Our job as leaders is to takecare of those employees, to give
them what they need for success, so that they can come up with
those things we've never thoughtof to make life better.
And it's within them.
It's not the clever leader.
(37:09):
A great leader is a farmer.
They're out there and they'retaking care of those that
they've been privileged to lead.
They're making sure that theyhave all the nutrients, all the
things they need to flourish,and so when there's success,
it's absolutely because thefarmer took care of these
employees and the employeescreated the success.
When there's failure, it'sactually the farmer's fault,
(37:32):
because the farmer didn'tprovide the things that were
needed.
These new ideas are going tocome from.
That's where solutions aregoing to come from, and they're
probably and it's an opinion,but they're probably not going
to come from the cleverness ofthe leader.
They're going to come from theinspiration the leader provides
(37:55):
to those employees that aregoing to come up with things
they never thought were possible.
And when you talk about findingjoy in leadership, that's where
joy resides.
Joy resides in thistrust-building, mutual
accountability, where theleaders just stand in awe of how
awesome these people are, thatthey're privileged to lead, and
the creative, innovative andingenious solutions they're
(38:17):
coming up with Wonderful.
Speaker 2 (38:20):
You know, one of the things I've seen so many times
in the research Ray is acrossthe country and I think it's
actually across all developedcountries, and I've seen
multiple independent empiricalstudies and research on this
that shows that 26% of workersare engaged in their jobs,
Meaning they like their jobs,they're great for the culture,
(38:41):
they come in every day.
Not only do they come in and dotheir job, they're always
trying to improve their abilityto what I call reach their peak
potential.
And that's 26% of people and,quite frankly, those are pretty
easy people to lead.
Speaker 1 (38:55):
It's like what do you need?
What?
Speaker 2 (38:56):
resources do you need and how do I remove obstacles
for you?
Then you have I'm going to go.
The flip-flop is 19% areactively disengaged, meaning
these are people there that youreally can't turn around.
I mean, if you wanted to spendthe time turning those I'm going
to call them bottom peoplearound, you're going to waste so
many resources that are neededfor the other people and so a
(39:18):
lot of those are toxic people.
Sometimes they're just in thewrong culture, they're in the
wrong job but they're neverreally going to rise to that
next level.
But in the middle group you have55% who are just simply just
disengaged.
They're not actively disengagedand they're not engaged.
They're just disengaged,meaning they feel they're lost,
they feel they're on the hamsterwheel.
They've lost their mojo, theirinspiration, they feel
(39:42):
unempowered or there's somethingit could be something happening
in their personal life that'saffecting their professional
life.
And I think the idea of buildingthat trust or the mutual
accountability and the way youdescribed it, is the antidote
for a lot of those people,because they seem unheard and
unseen and once you go down alittle bit of a rabbit hole,
(40:03):
it's easy to keep slipping.
And when a leader can help pickyou back out of that rabbit
hole.
I always tell people, if youcan bring those people around
and really help them they'reemotionally, mentally,
physically, whatever it needsthose are going to be your by
far your best apostles from thispoint forward, and I think this
(40:23):
idea of mutual accountabilityis a powerful tool that I had
never considered when I workwith my clients on this subject.
So I appreciate that.
That's why I'm so excited toread the book.
I just got to get done withthis book I'm reading right now.
It's been taking me forever.
You know what I started reading, ray.
I finished a book called theRogue Warrior, the guy who
(40:44):
started SEAL, team 6, which is apretty dark book.
It's a good book, but I gave ita three star.
It wasn't a five star for me,but it was a three star, but I
was.
I was interested in the subjectmatter, but I got done.
I'm like I need to readsomething light that takes me
away.
So I started reading booknumber five of harry potter, the
order of the phoenix man, andI'm just I'm just loving it.
I'm just loving it.
I'm just loving it, man.
(41:05):
I read the other ones years agoand then I stopped and went on
to some other things, but it'sgood to come back to a lighter
book every once in a while.
Absolutely, absolutely, yeah.
So I'm going to include linksto both of the books in the show
notes today, folks.
So please click on those.
I'll include the ones to Amazon, but if you shop somewhere else
, please look for both of thebooks that Ray has the Joy of
(41:30):
Leadership and Finding Joy inLeadership and Finding Joy in
your Golden Years.
Just based on what I've learnedabout Ray and having
conversation with Ray the lastcouple of weeks, I know they're
going to be great.
I'm not quite ready for thesecond one though, ray, I'll
give you a couple of years,that's fair.
Absolutely.
You know what's funny, though,I've had a couple of people who
are in the financial world whichis a lot of my world is
(41:52):
coaching, you know, financialexecutives or financial advisors
and things of that nature andI've had a couple of people in
the last three or four monthswho are have been doing this
career of financial advising andcounseling and planning for
several decades and a couple ofdecades or more, who are now
looking at this idea of.
I kind of want to get out ofthis and I want to go start
doing something more and helpingthese people as they transition
(42:16):
to retirement and not financial, but give them some game plans,
some guides.
So I recommend it to one of mybest friends last week who
mentioned this a couple of times.
They said, hey, I've got aguest coming on next week.
I'll send you the podcast assoon as we're done.
But his book would be a reallygood resource if that's
something you're interested in,and even for all you financial
advisors out there who areworking with people who are
(42:38):
looking at retirement soon ormaybe are retired, this could be
a great book to understand whatthey're going through and help
them to formulate a plan and asuccession or not a succession
plan, but to formulate what'stheir purpose.
You know, and what do you donow?
Because to me you've helpedthese clients grow for decades
to get to retirement.
Now they're there, you can'tjust drop them off at the bus
(42:59):
depot.
You got to keep them going, yougot to help them with.
You know, what do they do nextonce they do retire?
Because you know, I think a lotof people envision ray is
looking at I'm going to retire,I'm going to golf, I'm going to
do, but the things and a friendof mine, chuck wackendorfer, was
on the podcast a few months agoand he said the things that we
like to do and I'm going tobutcher how he said this are not
(43:22):
the things you want to do everyday the rest of your life.
It's like, yeah, you might loveto golf, you might love to sail
, but when it's something youstart to do every day and that's
all you do, it takes away a lotof the, the, the energy from
that, that passion.
And I do.
I think you're right and againI.
10 years ago you never wouldhave convinced me of this, but
(43:43):
now I'm a full, firm believerthat so much of our purpose is
what we give back to others.
It really is.
When you do something for others, it's, it's.
And maybe when you're youngeryou don't see that, and maybe
that really isn't a part of yourpurpose.
But what you talk to anybodywho is 50 or older, you really,
what you hear so much more of isI just want to help, I want to
(44:04):
serve, I want to be obedient, Iwant to give back.
I hear that so often.
And actually the cool thing,though, ray, I've got a couple
of clients who are very young,very aggressive builders of
their empires, and they saythey're doing this not like me
30 years ago, they're doing itbecause they want to serve other
people, and I love that.
I love that.
Speaker 3 (44:26):
Yep, and that's the key, that there's joy in that.
It's so counterintuitive,because you know, we think that
if we give too much we won't getin return, because that doesn't
seem to be intuitive, but it'scounterintuitive the more you
give, the more you get, and justthe joy from that is, it's just
remarkable.
(44:46):
And and to kind of piggyback onwhat you said, brian, because I
do want to kind of make a pointof that is that more and more
financial planning organizationsare now starting to realize the
importance of the clientsthey've worked with successfully
over all those years of havinga plan.
And I'm, I am I tell you allthis because I talk with other,
(45:08):
I'm also a retirement coach, soI talk with other retirement
coaches and I'm I am a rookie atthis, so I'm in my first year,
so take it for what it's worth.
But but I talk with people thataren't rookies, that are
veterans, and they're sayingabsolutely, and and they're
finding that more and moreretirement coaches are
partnering up with no-transcriptto come up with that, and so I
(45:50):
think that's a reallyinteresting thing and I think
that I think we're going to seemore and more of that, and
that's important because, if Ihaven't said it.
I believe I have on the podcast.
If I have said it before,forgive me for my redundancy,
but with 11,000, 11,000 babyboomers turning 65 today,
tomorrow and for the rest of theyear and the year that follows,
(46:11):
1.4 million every year, that'sa lot of people, and so they've
all, a lot of them, havefinancially planned, but the
real question is, have theyplanned for what to do with
those finances in their lives?
And so I think that's wherethis becomes, you know, the
discover joy in your goldenyears becomes an interesting
concept and one worthconsidering.
Wow, 11,000 a day, yeah, isn'tthat amazing?
Speaker 2 (46:36):
I don't blow your mind, In seven years I'll be one
of those 11,000.
Speaker 3 (46:40):
Exactly.
I didn't realize that babyboomers were that big, but now I
know they are and I'm at thetail end of that.
Just for the record that.
Speaker 2 (46:49):
I am one.
I'm on the top end of Xers.
I was born in 67.
So I'm an older generation Xer.
Yes, you're a seasoned Xer, I'ma seasoned Xer.
Yeah, I just want to take amoment here before we go on to
recognize our newest sponsor,ray.
Anyone who knows me knows Idon't like to cook.
However, I'm definitelyconcerned about what goes in my
(47:13):
body and I do appreciate a greatmeal.
Today I want to thank ournewest sponsor, milford Spice
Company.
Milford Spice Company was bornfrom a passion for sharing
healthy, delicious meals withloved ones around the table.
They believe ingredients matterand their products are free
from gluten, fillers,anti-caking agents and
preservatives.
Many are also salt and orsugar-free.
They contain fresh ground herbsand spices handcrafted to
(47:33):
provide an amazing, robustflavor, starting in their
founder's kitchen, I think,20-some years ago.
They are now in retail storesthroughout the United States and
their mission still remains thesame to make it easy, to make
it better.
So, even though I don't cook Idon't cook at all.
Actually these spices have beenshipped for a while to wherever
I am at the time, and my hostsare always excited to cook for
me using only Milford Spices.
(47:53):
So thank you very much, MilfordSpices, all right.
Can I ask very much milfordspices?
All right, um, can I ask apersonal question?
Right?
Yes, you may.
This is a question I love toask people, um, because it
really helps myself and theaudience to kind of understand
them a great deal better.
And the question is what is oneof the most difficult things
(48:13):
you've ever gone through in yourlife and how did you overcome
it?
Speaker 3 (48:19):
That is a good question.
I've been blessed in my lifewith several challenging things
to overcome, and I say thatbecause it's true and because we
learn more from those thingsthat we're challenged by and
that we do overcome.
But I think, if I my initialanswer is probably the one that
(48:42):
is the most accurate, the onethat pops into my head, and that
is that, and I think others canrelate to this.
So I was in the Air Force for23 years and I was very
fortunate to have severalleadership positions and my
career was going very, very,very well, and so I really would
(49:06):
have left to my own devices,would have stayed in probably
for 35 years as long as theywould have me, and, as a quick
corollary, that means I probablywouldn't have left the table
hungry, and we'll come back tothat in a minute.
But the biggest challenge I hadwas after a wonderful assignment
in Germany just an incredibleassignment and my wife and my
(49:29):
two boys and we had finished.
It was a very intense job forme but very rewarding.
And we had finished that joband and um, I was selected for
another leadership opportunityand uh, so, uh, I chatted with
my wife and came, we came to thefamily conclusion that we
needed to slow down.
(49:50):
Things were moving too fast andour kids were growing and and
this was going to become moreand more difficult to move
around so frequently.
And so it was hard for mebecause I felt that I was doing
what I was supposed to do andmoving in the direction I was
supposed to be going, and, byGod's grace and by my wonderful
(50:13):
wife, she woke me up a littlebit to say hey, there's things
more important than this yourfamily and your kids.
And so I made the decision toretire, and it was incredibly
difficult, but I will tell youwiser now in knowing what I know
.
Now.
(50:33):
I am so thankful for thatbecause I did leave the table
hungry.
You asked the question earlier,brian.
You know you've done thesedifferent things and what
motivates you to do that?
Well, I think there's somethingto be said by leaving the table
hungry in many things we do,because when you leave the table
hungry, you still havesomething left in the tank for
what that next phase is going tobe like.
(50:54):
And that inspired me when Iretired to run that small IT
services company and then getback into the airlines and
perhaps write.
Maybe that's part of my passionfor writing.
I don't know.
But what I do know is that Ithink it would be fascinating if
I hadn't done that.
The probability of me writingbooks and the probability of me
(51:16):
running a company, those wouldbe very, very low.
So I've been blessed by threedifferent, significantly
different careers in my life andit's because I was able to
navigate, by my wonderful wifeand family, that very, very,
very difficult choice I had tomake.
Speaker 2 (51:36):
You say three careers , you have six.
Now that you're a retirementcoach, I'm adding, I'm adding
titles to your okay, you're aretirement coach.
That's really cool.
So that's kind of what we weretalking about.
I didn't even know there was aname for it retirement coach.
Um yeah yeah, that's reallyinteresting.
Military ceo pilot, author, phdand retirement coach Ray
(51:58):
Phillips I think we'll just callyou Ray.
Speaker 3 (52:02):
There you go.
I like that the best.
Speaker 2 (52:05):
Ray, what do you consider in your life to be a
win that, when something happensyou either are part of or you
witness, you feel like, oh mygosh, that's a victory.
Speaker 3 (52:15):
Well, that's an easy answer for me and I can give you
three good examples reallyquickly.
So when I had my first commandin the military, I was a squad
(52:35):
to get this job.
How will I define success?
How will I define success?
Whoa, that's a good question.
And I decided that the answer tothat was if I could positively
impact just one person, oneperson in my organization's life
, by my leadership, I was goingto call that success and I've
(52:57):
shared that with people beforeand I'm not being critical
because I think it's a gooddiscussion, but I shared that
one time with somebody to gowhoa, you're setting the bar
really low.
And I thought, yeah, maybe, butmaybe not, because a win in
life for me is just positivelyimpacting the life of one other
(53:17):
person.
And then when you look at thesetwo joy books so I'm clearly on
a joy theme but joy inleadership and joy in your
golden years is by positivelyimpacting just one life, at
least one life, let's say atleast, maybe, at least is a
little better Positivelyimpacting at least one life in
(53:40):
your sphere of influence.
And as a leader.
That's when you realize theprivilege of leadership and you
build that trust and the mutualaccountability we talked about.
And then in retirement it'sdiscovering who you are and it's
saying all the skills andthings you've got over the years
how to make things better forthe generations behind you.
So that's the win.
Make things better for thegenerations behind you, so
(54:01):
that's the win.
And if you've ever tasted that,it's remarkable, because what
you see in the eyes of somebodyelse that you've helped is
priceless.
I mean you could be paid Icould be paid seven figures
every year and never see thatand never find joy.
Ever see that and never findjoy.
Or I could be paid four figuresevery year, five figures,
(54:28):
whatever it is, and see thatevery day and be satisfied.
So that's a win and that's theimpetus behind these books and
that's, I think, what CharlesSmith helped me understand by
having a good attitude, wastrying to see if you could see
that in others having a goodattitude was trying to see if
you could see that in others.
Speaker 2 (54:43):
And I do you wish?
Do you?
How do you?
I shouldn't say, do we wishthis?
How do we help a person whomight be 30 or 35 or 40, who's
really building that empire?
Because I look back at myselfand I did not have that
mentality of you know impactinga life.
How do you empower or inspire ayounger person to take that
mentality on?
You know impacting a life.
How do you empower or inspire ayounger person to take that
mentality on as well?
Speaker 3 (55:05):
That's a really, really, really good question.
And and I think the answer tothat question is is um, and and
I'm going to use this as anexample cause I think it's
relative, but the whole trustmodel that I use in that first
book is about transparentcommunications, relational
expectations, personal andprofessional growth, and then
(55:27):
ownership or empowerment.
And when you talk aboutpersonal or professional growth
and, brian, I know thismotivated me too at those ages
because I read a book calledRogers Rules for Success by
Henry Rogers and I lived by thatbook I said this is good stuff
and I wrote a, made a littlecard and I followed it every day
.
Now, the reason I did that wasbecause, selfishly, I thought
(55:48):
this will help me be successful.
And so I think when we're inour thirties and maybe forties,
early forties, and we've we'vegot that inspiration and all
those things, I think that'swhere we communicate
transparently and we set up agood relationship, we're
building that trust.
But then we ask them you knowwell, what are your personal
(56:11):
goals?
I know what your professionalgoals are, but what are your
personal goals?
You know?
That's what's fascinating,brian, not everybody, but so
many people talk aboutprofessional goals.
Well, what do you want to do.
Well, I want to grow this to X,or I want to run this company,
or I want to do that.
Okay, awesome, that's awesome.
But before you can reallyunderstand the probability of
that happening, you have to alsoincorporate what are your
(56:33):
personal goals?
What really gets you up in themorning and gets you pumped up?
Where do you find your joy?
Where do you find yoursatisfaction?
And sometimes those are thingsyou really have to think through
and talk through, especiallywhen we're in our 30s.
I think those are hard answersto give.
Marry personal goals withprofessional goals.
(57:02):
That figuring out how to impactsomebody's life light will come
on, because that's where itcomes on.
You know we want affirmation,we want to know we're making a
difference.
Well, how do you know you'remaking a difference?
And where do you get youraffirmation?
Well, I get my affirmation fromothers, or sometimes the people
who work with me will saythings oh, cool, yeah.
And so I think that's therevelation that has to occur is
(57:25):
that for you to be successful isnot you can't do it by yourself
.
It's going to have to be in agroup setting, a team setting
perhaps.
And when it's in the teamsetting and you see the team win
, that's where you realize, wow,that's what this is about.
It's about making that impactand that's why.
(57:45):
That's why, interestinglyenough, you know, um, these
concepts of building trust anddeciding who you are and what's
important to you are reallyimportant at any phase of life.
Because the sooner you figurethat out, the better, because
you know one of my favoritequotes and I'm sure you've heard
this, brian, but I feel like Ilived it.
(58:05):
I didn't totally live it, but Iwas cautious about it.
But the quote goes be carefulnot to spend your entire life
climbing the ladder of successonly to find out it's leaning
against the wrong wall.
And that's powerful.
And I think, to avoid itleaning against the wrong wall,
we've got to make sure thatpeople understand that it's
(58:26):
through the eyes of seeingothers succeed that creates
those wins.
Speaker 2 (58:32):
I remember that quote from Stephen Covey.
Yes, is that him?
Yeah, it is.
I'm pretty sure it's Covey.
I know it's in Seven Habits ofHighly Effective People.
I know that, but I don't knowif that was Hidge's original
quote or not, but that's anotherone that has that one stuck
with me since I was in my early20s or mid 20s when I first read
that book.
That's a great quote.
Speaker 3 (58:52):
Yeah absolutely.
Speaker 2 (58:55):
I really like the idea of marrying your personal
and professional goals, and oneof the things I try to get out
of my clients and sometimes it'shard is your purpose in life,
and I do a lot of talks andcoaching on developing your
purpose.
And what I tell people is, ifyou use the term marry and I
think that's a really good one Ihaven't used that term, but
(59:23):
let's all use it If you canmarry your personal and
professional purpose and haveone overreaching purpose that
you can apply both to yourprofessional life as well as
your professional life, wow,it's like you turn on the
afterburners.
When you do that yes, youreally do, and I think that's
powerful.
I think sometimes peopleconfuse purpose with goals, and
I know your goals are differentpersonally and professionally,
but there should be anoverarching umbrella across both
of those your personal,professional goals.
That is your purpose, youraspiration of who do you want to
(59:44):
become and how do you want toimpact the world, and then you
can do that both in yourpersonal life and your
professional life.
I think that's when you can dothat man.
That's a powerful.
That's a powerful direction togo in, totally agree, all right,
so you talked about.
You know we're talking aboutkind of the younger generation.
So let's go back, let's takeyou as younger Ray Phillips, if
I have my time machine and I'mcoming out there just north of
(01:00:06):
Denver and we're going to jumpin that time machine this
afternoon and we're going to goback to any time in history, ray
, that you want to go back intoand you can talk to your younger
self.
What words of wisdom, recipesfor success or advice would you
give the younger Ray?
Speaker 3 (01:00:24):
Well, I have thought about this too, because I think
I might've shared it with myboys as I want to help them to
be smarter than me, and asthey've grown up.
But it's resonated with me fora very long time that nobody
ever told me how hard life wouldbe and I don't say that
(01:00:45):
negatively, I just say itfactually.
And sometimes the hardestthings in life are the ones that
are so.
They're most rewarding, they'rethe most meaningful.
So the first thing I would tellmy younger self is hey, ray,
life's going to be hard.
You're not going to escape that, it's just going to be hard.
And what I really want you tothink about, younger Ray, is I
(01:01:07):
want you to embrace it.
I want you to embrace thechallenges.
Because if you can embrace thechallenges, don't avoid them.
Embrace them.
That is what will mold yourcharacter.
That is what will mold yourcharacter, that is what will
make you stronger.
And so you're not going toavoid the challenges that come
your way.
They're going to come your way.
But what you can do and again Iwant to give credit to Charles
(01:01:30):
Smith is you can have anattitude that says embrace them.
You know, get frustratedinitially, go darn it.
I can't believe this happensand as soon as you're done
huffing and puffing a couple oftimes, just say okay, it's
happened.
Now there's a great quote,another quote that comes to mind
in it.
I can't remember who said this,it might be Jim Rohn but it's
not what happens, it's what youdo that makes the difference in
(01:01:53):
results.
And I should know that.
I've seen that recently.
But boy, that's a powerfulquote.
Because it's not what happens,because it's going to happen.
Life is going to happen, butit's what you do that makes the
difference in results.
And I did figure that out laterin life.
But I think that's a goldennugget that the sooner you can
(01:02:15):
figure that out, the sooner youcan embrace that that it's not
when all things are going yourway that you grow the most.
It's when things aren't goingyour way and they're your
opportunities to grow.
Speaker 2 (01:02:29):
Life is hard.
Embrace it.
Somebody asked me one time, ray, I think it was I had somebody
I had a friend of mine interviewme on this podcast, as I was
the guest and he was the host,and just to turn it around a
little bit so the audience couldlearn a little bit more about
me, and they asked me who thegreatest influence was.
(01:02:50):
Mine was my mother, and we wenton and then he said well, what
was it?
My mother never said thesewords to me, but the one thing I
learned most from her is thatlife is hard or life is tough.
Be tougher, and I think a lotof it.
And I think a lot of times intoday's society we are trying to
mold the world to fit ourchildren versus getting our
(01:03:13):
children ready to fit the world.
Speaker 3 (01:03:15):
Brilliant.
Speaker 2 (01:03:16):
That's a dangerous, dangerous slippery slope because
the world is not going tochange for your child.
Whether you try to change theworld, it's not going to happen.
The world is the world and itis hard.
And if we don't make ourchildren ready for that, what is
the old saying?
I'd rather be a warrior in agarden and a gardener in a war.
Exactly, train your children tobe tough emotionally and
(01:03:37):
mentally, and physically if youcan, but mostly mentally and
emotionally.
And that's why this idea ofstoicism has really gotten a
rebirth when Ryan Holiday wrotehis book the Obstacle is the Way
, maybe 15 years ago.
And this philosophy of stoicismabout how do you handle the
(01:03:57):
difficulties in life and how doyou handle the high moments too.
You don't want to get toowrapped up in the highs or the
lows.
You want to keep yourself at apretty good emotional and mental
state of stability, becauseit's going to come, whether you
like it or not.
So be ready for it.
Speaker 3 (01:04:13):
Well, I liken it.
My wife's a big tennis playerand so therefore I watch every
tennis tournament in the worldand I've grown to love it, so at
one point I whined.
Now I love it.
But tennis is a fascinatinggame, especially singles,
because when you're on top youcan be ahead 5-2, and it's
amazing how many 5-2 sets arelost.
(01:04:35):
And the reason they're lost isexactly what you're saying,
brian.
You're feeling, hey, I'm there,I got this thing won.
And the minute you think thatyour opponent now has the edge
to beat you.
And then the same breath, whenlife's really hard, when you're
down two to five and you feellike, oh, this is just not going
my way, you've got to dig downdeep and say I just need to win
(01:04:58):
the next point, just one pointat a time, and before you know
it, you're going to win it.
And it's that mentality, it'sthat idea in any sport or in any
endeavor that you never give up.
You say, okay.
Well, what can I learn fromthis?
What's going on right now?
What can I learn from this?
How do I make this better?
How do I move one step forward?
How do I get the next point?
And, yeah, that is becoming alittle bit of a lost art but oh
(01:05:22):
my gosh, what incredible fertileground for leaders out there
and retirees to help the nextgeneration turn that around.
Speaker 2 (01:05:31):
That would be a purpose, a perfect use of a lot
of people's time is to help thatyounger generation realize that
and really come to that, that,that and that's an aha moment.
For a lot of younger peoplethat's an aha moment Cause they
have not been told that before.
Um, I mean yes, yes, so you'vegot all these.
You've got this amazing 60, isit 63 or 65?
(01:05:55):
How old are you, ray?
I'll be 65 June 12th, is thatnext Thursday?
It is.
The podcast will be released onyour birthday week.
Speaker 3 (01:06:07):
Oh, that's wonderful, We'll do it yeah.
Speaker 2 (01:06:09):
So what's next for you?
Speaker 3 (01:06:12):
Well, thank you for asking.
I will tell you I'm sopassionate and I hope I conveyed
that, I believe I did, I hope Idid but I'm so passionate about
joy, I'm so passionate aboutleadership and I'm definitely
passionate about people turning65 and entering their golden
(01:06:33):
years, of which I am one, that Iwould love to live out the rest
of my days, as long as I can,coaching, being a leadership
coach, a retirement coach,writing books and inspiring.
And it goes back to thequestion you asked.
You know what's a win for youin life?
A win for me is to continue tosee that look in someone's face
(01:06:54):
when you've helped make theirlife better and make a
difference.
And so that's what's next forme.
You know I'm going to continuewriting, coaching, consulting um
and just doing what I can do umto to help make a difference.
Speaker 2 (01:07:08):
Well, please do, cause we definitely need you.
We need you doing that and andyou, you're, you're uh, when
it's impacting one life, you'reimpacting a lot of life.
You impact my life.
I can tell you that just in ourconversation last week and
today I'm I'm jotting notes downhere on my side table.
So, um, great quotes.
I love that idea Leave thetable hungry.
I really liked that.
(01:07:29):
That has a lot of connotationsto me and I was thinking in my
head what, how do I apply that?
And I can see so manyapplications for me.
Um, okay, so final question, myfriend is is there any question
, ray, that I did not ask thatyou wish I would have?
Or is there any kind of finalmessage you want to leave with
that bamboo pack?
Speaker 3 (01:07:48):
audience.
Well, um, no questions, thiswas just an incredible
conversation.
And for that audience, um, Iwant and I mean this sincerely,
and if you get a book because itinterests you, you'll see it in
the book because I bring it up.
I think I bring it up in theacknowledgements in the Discover
(01:08:08):
Joy, in your Golden Years bookbut I want every listener to
know that they truly areremarkable.
The challenges you've all had inyour lives, the successes
you've had in your lives havemolded you into who you are and
you have so much to give,whether that's as a leader,
whether that's as a retiree inyour community.
(01:08:30):
You've got so much to give.
You've got so much morepotential to realize and explore
goals to set and things likethat.
Realize and explore goals toset and things like that.
And there's people out therethat are just waiting for you to
make that impact.
So I just want to thank them.
I want to thank anybody thatlistened to this.
I want to thank anybody thatgets the books or is curious
(01:08:52):
about this.
If this makes your lives better, then this has been a win for
me.
But don't miss the importanceof how special you are.
I want to leave with one lastpoint, because I would feel bad
if I forgot to say this.
So remember, I made the bigpoint about babysitting and
(01:09:13):
meeting Charles Smith, who waslike a father to me.
Well, it ends up.
I did babysit and I ended uphaving the privilege and this is
critical in light of everythingI've said I had the privilege
to babysit for a Down Syndromegirl young girl name was Rita,
and I don't know how thathappened.
I don't even know why thisfamily decided to ask me to do
(01:09:36):
that, but they did, and I willtell you that I learned more
from her than there's anything Iever taught her.
She was always happy, she wasalways happy to see me, she was
always happy-go-lucky.
And you know, society andhumanity says that she had a
(01:09:56):
handicap, and I can understand,perhaps, why they say that.
But I will tell you that shedidn't have a handicap.
I had a handicap because Ididn't realize how beautiful
this young lady was and howhappy she could be, just at her
desire.
So she changed my life and sothat makes the point that I've
(01:10:17):
just made that you never know.
You know the impact you canmake in somebody else's life or
they can make in yours, andeverybody is special and
everybody has something to give.
And if we would just look forthat boy, we can.
We can move the rudder on thisbig boat world in a pretty big
way and change the world prettybig way and change the world.
Speaker 2 (01:10:43):
Well, ray, I normally give a final thought after that
final question, but I'm goingto leave it because your answer
was more profound than anythingI can come up with.
You are a gift, my friend.
You are a gift, you really are.
Speaker 3 (01:10:54):
Wow Well, thanks, Brian.
I appreciate that.
I really appreciate theopportunity.
Speaker 2 (01:10:59):
Oh, please stay on the phone for a little bit when
we're done here.
But I want to recommendeverybody please get on Amazon,
barnes and Noble dot com or goto your favorite bookstore and
find Finding Joy in Leadershipand Discovery, joy in your
Golden Years.
Like I said, we'll have someshow notes.
At the bottom of the show notesyou can click on those.
I sometimes struggle with howto edit those in there, but I'm
doing my best every time.
But you have the names of themfolks, so get on Amazon and
(01:11:20):
check them out.
Ray, first of all, happybirthday next Thursday.
Thank you and Godspeed on yourlast few flights here before you
retire officially.
I hope this is a momentous capto your flying career.
Speaker 3 (01:11:38):
Well, I appreciate that as well, absolutely.
And thank you for being one ofthe more inspiring and
empowering guests I've ever hadon the Bamboo Lab podcast.
Well, I take that as an honor.
Thank you, Brian, very much.
Speaker 2 (01:11:49):
It's an honor Folks, I want to thank you for tuning
in.
I know all of you got a lot outof this podcast, this
particular episode.
Please share this with fivepeople you love and care about,
this podcast, this particularepisode.
Please share this with fivepeople you love and care about.
Let them gleam the wisdom thatRay shared with us of his
experiences, of that he'salready had and he's continuing
to create now and in the future,of impacting lives.
Staying hungry at the table,leaving the table hungry.
(01:12:09):
I love that quote.
Please smash that like button,rate and review us and, again,
share this with five people youlove.
I'll see you all next week,same time, same place.
In the meantime, please get outthere and strive to give and be
your best, show love andrespect to others, and also show
it to yourself, and please livewith intention and purpose.
I appreciate you all.
Until next time.
Hello and welcome to the Bamboo Lab Podcast with your
host, peak Performance Coach,brian Bosley.
Are you stuck on the hamsterwheel of life, spinning and
spinning but not really movingforward?
Are you ready to jump off andsoar?
Are you finally ready to sculptyour life?
If so, you've landed in theright place.
(00:21):
This podcast is created andbroadcast just for you, all of
you strivers, thrivers andsurvivors out there.
If you'd like to learn moreabout Brian and the Bamboo Lab,
feel free to reach out toexplore your true peak level at
wwwbamboolab3.com.
Speaker 2 (00:41):
Welcome everyone to this week's episode of the
Bamboo Lab Podcast.
As always, I'm your host, brian, and I got to tell you.
A couple of weeks ago I got aFacebook message from a friend
of mine and she said hey, weworked with this author and we'd
(01:01):
love to have you interview himon your show.
And I get a lot of those and alot of times they don't turn out
what I'm expecting.
Sometimes they do, you luck out.
So anyway, I right away reachedout to this particular
gentleman and we had a goodconversation on the phone a few
days later and I've been soexcited and I told one of my
clients this morning I'm soexcited for today's interview.
(01:22):
We have a gentleman on todaythat has worn many hats in his
career.
I mean, he's a retired seniorAir Force officer.
He was a CEO of an informationIT company, he was a pilot now
soon to be retired commercialairline pilot.
He is an author and is a PhD inorganizational and industrial
(01:43):
psychology.
I mean, that's five lifetimesfor most people right there.
So, without further ado, my newfriend, ray Phillips.
Welcome to the Bamboo Labpodcast.
Speaker 3 (01:53):
Well, brian, thank you so much, and I'm just very
excited to be here.
Speaker 2 (01:58):
Well, you know, ray, we had a good conversation
several days ago and we got toknow each other a little bit.
Of course, we were able to talkbefore we recorded today, but
can you please share with theBamboo Pack out there a little
bit about yourself, where you'refrom, your family, and we'll go
from there?
Speaker 3 (02:13):
You bet.
Yeah, I'm a Colorado native,believe it or not, born in
Denver, raised north of Denverin a small town called Loveland,
ended up going to the UnitedStates Air Force Academy for
college and then was in the AirForce for 23 years as a pilot,
and I'm very fortunate.
I've been on every continent,I've traveled the world and just
(02:35):
seen some amazing things,retired from the Air Force after
23 years and helped a guy run asmall IT services company and
just a really kind of a startup,and we grew that company in
seven years to something prettysignificant and that was very
enlightening.
And what I didn't tell you is,growing up in Colorado, my
(02:58):
grandparents lived near the oldDenver Stapleton Airport and
when I would visit them as ayoung person they would take me
to the airport.
They asked what I wanted to doand I said I'd love to go to the
airport and we'd go to a placecalled the Red Baron Lounge and
have lunch and I could watchairplanes take off and land.
And so I got the bug early onand was fortunate enough to fly
in the military and stayedflying in general aviation while
(03:22):
I helped run a small ITservices company.
But then my passion was to comeback to do that.
So I just am about to finish a12-year career as an airline
pilot and have just adoredflying.
I was telling somebody todayyou know it's embarrassing and
they said you shouldn't beembarrassed.
But it's embarrassing whensomebody says, well, how long
(03:43):
have you been flying?
And I used to, you know, 15years ago I say, oh yeah, I've
been flying for 28 years and Ifelt really proud about that.
Well, now it's over 40.
And so 40 makes me sound verymature and I fly with a lot of
new first officers that I couldtake 40 and cut it in half and
(04:04):
add two or three, and that wouldbe about how old they are.
So I'm I'm blessed because I Iget to be in a mentorship and
share some of that knowledgewith them, but I've just enjoyed
all the different things thatI've been fortunate enough to
get the opportunity to do andthen.
Speaker 2 (04:16):
So I I know this, but the audience doesn't know this
that you are on this.
I'm going to call it your finalflight right now, or not right
now, but this next few days,right.
Speaker 3 (04:27):
Yeah, in fact it's kind of a neat thing so what you
do as you approach that, andfor me it's a mandatory
retirement at age 65.
So my birthday is on the 12thof June, so it's not too far
away.
It's nine days from today, andso I've got a last trip set up.
And what is really kind of aneat tradition is, as you get
(04:48):
ready for your final flight,they'll do a celebration, a gate
celebration, and so I've had awonderful day today because I
flew from Phoenix to Denver.
I got to the gate in Denver andwe had a water cannon ceremony,
where two fire trucks are oneach side of the airplane
arching water over the airplaneas it pulls into parking, and I
(05:09):
had my family and friends andeverybody out there, and so it
is the culmination, in a perfectway, of that aviation career.
And I tell other people, youknow the three things I've done
the military, the CEO and thisI've always left the table
hungry.
I certainly would love to domore, but've always left the
table hungry.
I certainly would love to domore, but I'm leaving the table
hungry in each case and that's agood thing to do.
Speaker 2 (05:32):
Well then, you went on to become an author.
You've been writing, I know so.
As everybody knows, ray haswritten two books so far.
One is called the Joy ofLeadership yes, finding Joy in
Leadership.
Finding Joy in Leadership, yeah.
And Finding Joy in your GoldenYears, which is your newest book
, isn't it?
That's correct.
Speaker 3 (05:51):
Yeah, the story of the authorship is a little bit
of a kind of an explanation ofhow I got there.
Everybody's seen the movieForrest Gump, and one day
Forrest just started running andthen he ran and ran and ran and
his beard got longer and thenone day he just stopped, and
(06:12):
that's kind of what happened tome.
When I was about 45.
I decided I would run amarathon and, and so I trained
for that Excuse me and then Iended up running that marathon,
not doing as well as I wanted todo, but deciding that I could
do better.
And so for the next 10 yearspretty much from 2004 till 2014,
(06:39):
I was running marathons, up toalmost four to five a year and
out there running 40 miles aweek, and I share that only
because when you do that, you doa lot of thinking.
And so during those training,runs and to include marathons, I
would just think about thingsthat were interesting to me and
I got to thinking, gosh, Ishould write a book.
(07:00):
And so I would start writing abook, and I was primarily
focused initially on leadership,because I was fascinated as to
why some organizations do sowell and some don't do so well,
and why some were synergisticand some were not synergistic,
and I've always been fascinatedby the concept of synergy.
(07:20):
I think it's an amazing thingbecause when you see it or when
you've tasted it, you long forit every time you get the chance
to experience it again.
So I had written a couplechapters and I came back from a
run, a training run, and I wassharing with my wife that I was
going to write a book and thereality of it is is I just
couldn't get past a couplechapters and I was just didn't
(07:43):
think I had the ability.
So this went on for a while andone day I shared again with her
my concerns and frustrations.
She said well, you should goback to school.
So I ended up going back andgetting my PhD in industrial and
organizational psychology andthe collateral benefits of that,
the rigors of going throughthat, made me a better thinker,
made me a better writer andhelped me get through that first
(08:04):
book.
And what I'm really proud aboutin that first book is, as we
mentioned, the title is FindingJoy in Leadership, but the
subtitle, which is really themost important title, is by
Developing Trust you Can CountOn, and during my PhD research I
came up with a process forbuilding trust that explains why
(08:27):
some organizations aresynergistic and why some
organizations are not, why someare successful and why others
are not.
And so really delighted by that.
And then that sparked me intothe next book, after that book
had done.
Very well, I'm approachingretirement, so I thought what
better way of therapy for myselfthan to write a book about how
(08:49):
to discover joy in your goldenyears?
And and uh, and so that was theimpetus of that book.
Speaker 2 (08:54):
Well, I know both books are five-star rated on
Amazon, so I'm really lookingforward to you know I don't.
I can't quite admit, ray, thatI'm ready for my golden years,
but I am excited about readingFinding Joy in Leadership.
I really am.
I looked at that, read thereviews and looked at the
context of it.
I'm like, yeah, that's my nextread after I finish Marshall
(09:21):
Goldsmith's book that I'mreading right now.
So you wear kind of a lot ofhats, obviously, but
professionally you've worn fivemajor hats I look at it this way
with the Air Force and the CEO,and then you know, commercial
airline pilot, author and thenPhD.
What or who inspired yougrowing up to kind of grab all
(09:41):
these different angles andactually do very, very well at
all of them?
Speaker 3 (09:47):
Well, I appreciate that question because I think it
is an important question forall of us to think about.
You know what motivates us?
And I had a unique circumstancegrowing up my dad was in the
Navy, had gone to medical schoolbut decided not to be a doctor,
and then was a chemist butunfortunately died at the age of
(10:08):
35.
And I'm a middle kid and so Ihave an older sister and a
younger brother, and when my dadwould go to work he'd always
look at me and he'd say OK, ray,you're the man of the house,
you take care of your mom andyour brother and sister.
And so I was only nine yearsold when that happened.
But it's interesting to me andI bring it up because I think it
(10:30):
was impactful the fact that hesaid he charged me with taking
care of my mom and my brothersand sisters at an early age kind
of imparted on me that it wasreally important to do that and
important to make sure that youdid the best that you could do
to provide and take care ofthose people.
(10:51):
And so that certainly wasinfluential and that's a very
serious story.
But let me go to a counterstory.
That's very influential as well.
So I was a big basketballplayer growing up and that was,
in fact, my sport.
And so, while the listeners maythink well, that's really
honorable Ray that you were theman of house and took care of
(11:12):
your brothers and sisters andmom, what I'm about to tell you
will let you know how normal Iam and how flawed I am.
And so, as a basketball player,I got a big head and I thought
it was about me.
I was a pretty good athlete andin fourth grade, um, when I was
playing there, I was at aCatholic school and I got to
play in fourth grade and I had acoach, a man named Bob Miles,
(11:34):
and, uh, I had a bad attitude.
I just did, I was prideful, Ithought things were for me and
not for the team.
And I remember one day were forme and not for the team.
And I remember one day BobMiles sat me down in the gym on
a lunch bench and told me thatthis was not about me and that
if I couldn't change my attitude, I no longer needed to be on
(11:57):
that team, that I needed anattitude adjustment and that the
greatest gift was in giving andnot receiving and thinking that
things were about you ratherthan thinking about what you
could do for others.
So that was pretty significant,and that was in fourth grade
and um.
So my dad empowering me, bobmiles, giving me a reality check
(12:18):
, and then my gift, my true gift, was a man named charles smith,
who I was fortunate enough inmy teenage informative years.
I ended up mowing his lawn anddigging post holes and doing all
the manual labor stuff.
And they had two young boysyounger than me, six years
younger and I think, eight yearsyounger, and my sister, my
(12:40):
older sister used to babysit inthe neighborhood and that's how
she earned her pay,no-transcript.
And so one day Charles Smithcame up to me, my next-door
neighbor, and he said, hey, doyou babysit?
And I go, I don't know, I'llfind out and let you know.
So I went home and I talked tomy mom and I said, hey, mom,
charles wants to know if Ibabysit.
I don't know if I babys or not.
(13:12):
And she said, well, you could,you could.
What is?
You know how old are the kids,all that stuff.
So, long story short, I ended uptaking care of his kids and
really mentoring.
He mentored me and collaterallyI was able to be a big brother
to them and he was so importantin my formative years.
He's the reason.
If I really narrowed it down,brian Charles told me one day he
said, ray, attitude iseverything and I internalized
that.
(13:32):
And so thank you for thecomments on five different roles
, but five different roles havejust been a blessing, because I
truly believe that attitude waseverything, that it was, that it
was a privilege to get to dothese different things and that
hopefully I could make adifference in others' lives by
my attitude and, you know,hopefully help them as they
(13:55):
helped me.
Speaker 2 (13:56):
Wow.
So right now I'm going to askyou some questions about your
books Okay, because I reallywant to get into those.
About your books, um, cause Ireally want to get into those.
Um, now, as I said, I'm alittle more interested in the
leadership one, but I knowthere's a lot of people out
there who are going into thosegolden years of life and that's
there's a lot of wisdom you'veyou've acquired in actually you
kind of going through that withlooking at your career, um,
(14:17):
commercial airlines coming to atail end as well as, um, you
know, doing the research you'vegot on the book.
I want to ask you, because Iwant to give a shout out right
now to two people Simon andLorena from Simon Golden LLC
were really instrumental inhelping you get that second book
written, and they were the oneswho referred you to me and I've
(14:38):
gotten to know them when I wasliving in Grand Rapids.
So can you tell us a little bitabout the experience Maybe
spend 30 seconds giving them ashout out and how that process
worked for you, because I too amcurious about using somebody to
help me get my book taken careof.
Speaker 3 (14:52):
Absolutely.
I had mentioned to you before westarted our podcast, and I
think it's worth sharing again,that I had written a book and I
did not have a book coach, andso I felt like you know I could
do this again and just likeanything, the more you do it,
the better you're going to get.
But Simon has an incrediblemarketing plan and, quite
(15:12):
honestly, lorena is reallybehind a lot of that and so he
reached out to me and onLinkedIn, I believe and so we
started a conversation and justreally interesting talking to
him and he just has a provenprocess for making books
interesting, readable,compelling, and he has the
(15:33):
reader in mind.
He clearly understands whatreaders are looking for and he
doesn't keep an author fromproducing what they want to
produce.
What he does is he allows theauthor to produce what they want
to produce and make it soreadable and so enjoyable that
that the book will will mostlikely enjoy great success
(15:54):
because of that.
So absolutely Couldn't be morepleased if I and I probably will
write another book and if I do,I absolutely work with with
Simon and Lorena again.
Speaker 2 (16:05):
Well, good.
So anybody out there who's anexecutive or an industrial
leader who's looking to write abook maybe you don't know how,
you don't know how to put thewords to paper, you can't seem
to find the time please click on, go to simongoldencom and
research what they have to do,because I can tell you I've not
used them, but I've heard,obviously, from you, great
things and I know them asindividuals.
(16:26):
They are top-notch people, soshout out to Simon Golden LLC.
Okay, so you're writing thislast book and you were writing
this book, ray, knowing thatyou're going into those golden
years yourself and you're like Isaid, your airline career was
kind of tailing down to whereyou are now, going on to your
next phase.
What were some of the greatlearnings you learned in
(16:46):
researching the book and writingthe book?
Speaker 3 (16:50):
Well, what really was the catalyst for me to be
curious about it and to then dothe research was I was all too
frequently hearing people saythat, oh my gosh, you know, I
know what you're feeling.
My dad retired two years agoand you know he was a big
executive and now he justdoesn't feel like he has purpose
(17:11):
anymore.
He kind of feels lost.
Or my mom, you know, is just,you know, she was a doctor, an
MD, and she's just remarkable,but we're just not sure what
she's going to do with her time.
I thought that's reallyinteresting and then I could
completely relate, I couldempathize, because I go whoa and
purpose is a big deal andfeeling relevance huge.
(17:32):
And so I did a lot of researchand it ends up that there's
studies out there that basicallysay and it's not a huge number,
but it's more than the averageit says almost 56% of people
retiring don't have a plan forhow they're going to spend their
time.
Now, most people are justphenomenal about financial
(17:55):
planning because that's anexpected practice and you work
so hard so that you have thefreedom to do what you want to
do when you retire.
But isn't it ironic you havethat freedom to do what you want
to do when you retire.
But isn't it ironic, you havethat freedom but you may not
have a plan.
And so after doing the researchI just said, well, what are the
components here?
And just to kind of highlightthose briefly, is it's
(18:17):
fascinating that in ourformative years, in junior high
school and high school, we'rereally trying to figure out who
we are and we're really curiousabout that.
And in junior high and highschool we're really trying to
figure out who we are and we'rereally curious about that.
And in junior high and highschool we start doing that.
Then we go off to college, andnow we're refining that a little
bit and we're starting tofigure out who we are.
And then we pick a major.
Everybody wants to know whatyour major is, because they want
(18:37):
to know what you're going to do, and you may not know.
And so you eventually picksomething.
You get into the workplace, andnow you haven't finished the
process of figuring out who youare, but you know what to say
when somebody says what do youdo?
Because what we say is what ourwork is.
And so now we become defined byour work.
And so the first step in this,in this discover joy in your
(18:58):
golden years is.
Really understanding is isfiguring out who you are,
deciding who you are, yourvalues, principles and character
, and then, through reflectionand figuring that out and
writing it down for yourself andit may not be complete, in fact
it won't be complete till theday we die.
We're ever evolving but whatthat does is that helps me
understand what's important tome, because when you finish
(19:21):
working in the professionalrealm now it's you, it's totally
just you.
Now it's you, it's totally justyou.
So who are you and what'simportant to you?
And after you figure that out,then you can say well, based on
all my life experiences andexpertise, the things I've done
in my life, where would I bestfit in?
Knowing who I am, where would Ifeel like I would best fit in?
(19:42):
Maybe it's volunteering, Maybeit's consulting, maybe it's
teaching at a university, whereis that?
So it's some taste tests to dothat, and so, again, that's a
little bit of experimentation,but, as opposed to just not
knowing, it gives you a path andthe reader, through journaling
in this book, decides that forthemselves.
And then, once you've decidedthat purpose, then it's about
(20:04):
setting goals for continuedgrowth.
You know, so many people feelthat retirement is the end.
You know, and it's and I love aquote that God gave me one time
he goes, don't ever peak, right.
And I said, really, you don'tever peak, he goes.
No, because the minute you peakit's only downhill from there,
and you don't want to peak, youwant to continue to grow and
(20:24):
realize new potential.
And then all of this then leadsto where I think joy resides,
and in your golden years, whichcould be absolutely
unequivocally the best years ofyour life.
Joy resides in your ability toimpact the relationships in your
life and impact those aroundyou by how you participate in
(20:47):
your communities, neighborhoods,et cetera.
And it's interestingly enoughand there may be some pushback
from people hearing this, but Ithink, if you think about it,
you may agree it's no longerabout the compensation you get
for the things you do, but it'sabout the rewards you get for
the things you give, how we helpthose people around us, how
baby boomers can help GenerationX to continue the transition
(21:11):
and help the millennials be evenmore successful, who are taking
over more and more managementroles.
And Generation Z what do wehave to contribute for their
success?
So that's a very long answer toa short question, but I think
that's the impetus I think it'sfantastic.
Speaker 2 (21:29):
I think it's fascinating.
I never really thought aboutroles shifting as we get older
until the last few years of mylife, as I've gotten older.
Coincidentally, on Sunday, oneof my best friends, kevin, sent
me.
Every Sunday he sends me avideo saying this is what I had
for breakfast today, and thiswas an art.
It was a video, I didn't care.
It was a interview, but it wason video format.
(21:51):
I listened to the first 20minutes of it and then we went
off for a hike so I didn't getto finish, but it was a PhD, it
was at Harvard professor, Ibelieve it was, and he's a
specialist in aging and hetalked about and this is just
just again 20 minutes of medoing this while I'm taking a
cold shower, so you know, inbrushing my teeth.
So I was.
I didn't get a chance to sitdown and take notes but
something to the effect of whenwe are younger, our brains are
(22:14):
more accustomed and moredesigned to build something, and
it is.
It isn't that we lose ourmotivation when we get older.
It's that our brain literallychanges to some degree where the
building of the thing that wewere always trying to accomplish
I call it our ambitions in lifechanges now to more of an
(22:36):
aspirational aspect.
It's now how can you impactothers around you, how can you
mentor and coach and influenceother generations, which I call
that more of an aspirationalapproach to life.
But he said it's biological too.
Our brains literally do changeand we find that when we're.
You know, I'm 58 years old.
I remember when I was 29 yearsold, starting my business, I had
(22:57):
the plans to build the world'slargest coaching and consulting
firm, and really that was nevera really important thing to me,
but I thought my brain wastelling me that's what you have
to do.
And it's over the past coupleof years.
A friend of mine another one ofmy best friends, dave out of
Texas, said you know, brian, youare not designed to build an
empire, your brain is designedto build the people who build
(23:26):
the empires.
And I thought, man, that's sotrue.
And the thing is, though, ray,for so much of my career I was
trying to build the empire,which was really swimming
against the current, because itwas never the way my brain was
designed anyway, it was to buildthe minds that build the
empires.
And once he said that it kind ofclicked in me like okay, and
(23:46):
that's the beauty of havingconversations with people that
you don't they're just eitherfriends or acquaintances or some
stranger like you mentionedlast week on the phone call,
some stranger on the airplanethat you talked to.
They can give you an idea that,if you're listening, can take
you in a new direction thatyou've never thought of.
That maybe a hired mentor,coach or a psychologist or a
(24:08):
therapist who couldn't really do.
It's something we those aregood too, but we have to be
looking for messages that peoplethat are just saying things
that just resonate with you.
You know, and I'd like you totell I think you told me a story
about something on a woman onan airplane, or you gave me an
example of how you find that youcan connect with leaning into
(24:30):
any conversation you can findsomething to make your life and
other lives better.
Was there a story behind thator were you just giving that as
an example when we talked lastweek?
Speaker 3 (24:41):
No, that's actually a story and, believe it or not,
it's in the first book, findingJoy in Leadership, and the way
the story goes is that I commuteto Phoenix.
I live in Colorado, but Icommute to Phoenix.
That's where I start my tripsout of, so I'm in the back of an
airplane quite often getting towork, and so I sit back there
(25:03):
and I'm fascinated by people andyou watch people as they get on
the airplane, and we all dothis.
You know, if you, if you have arow to yourself and you're on
the aisle seat, you don't wantto make eye contact with anybody
coming down the aisle becauseyou think they might get in your
row, you know those other twoseats that you don't want
anybody to occupy.
And I just watched that and Iwas fascinated by that and then
(25:26):
finally I said no, that's notthe case.
I said you know what?
I wonder?
I bet if I struck up aconversation with anybody,
anybody on this airplane, toinclude those people, when
you're sitting in the aisle seatand you look and you go, oh boy
, I wonder, I hope they don'tsit next to me.
What if you changed yourattitude and said, boy, how cool
(25:47):
would it be if they sat next tome.
I wonder what I could learnfrom them.
So it's a mindset and I foundand I proved it that if I sat
next to anyone, anyone that goton board the airplane, anyone, I
could learn something from themthat would make my life better.
And I hope and pray that Icould share something with them
that would make my life better.
And I hope and pray that Icould share something with them.
(26:08):
That would make their lifebetter.
And the way this story goes wasI sat down next to this
wonderful young lady and she waspart Native American, she grew
up on the West Coast and if youall did any of the listeners, or
brian, if you did an analysis,just an assessment, you say,
(26:29):
okay, well, let me try todescribe ray's attributes and
what perhaps some of his valuesand principles and beliefs are,
and you categorize those.
And then you, you took a lookat this other person, you did
the same.
You would probably, probablygather that maybe we're on
different poles, differentspectrums.
Well, guess what she sharedwith me?
We were talking about healingand this, by the way, was during
(26:55):
the COVID times, and we weretalking about healing.
And from her Native Americanexperiences, she held out her
right hand.
I was sitting on her right side, she held out her right hand
and it sitting on her right side.
She held out her right hand andit was in a fist, a clenched
fist, and she said, ray, it mynative american ancestors
believe that the power ofhealing was in your hand and all
(27:20):
you had to do was open yourhand and release it.
And so, if you picture that andif you picture a clenched fist,
you can see the tension in thefist and you go gosh, there's a
lot of tension in that fist,it's so clenched and so perhaps
to get rid of that tension, whatI need to do is relax my hand
(27:41):
and open up my fingers so thatit's no longer clenched and
release that tension and thatillustration that she gave me
and it really went beyond thetension, it went beyond a belief
and it was deeper, certainlythan that.
But I use that example in myfirst book because there's so
many times that we're in our ownway, we're creating beliefs or
(28:03):
tensions that are of our owndoing, and perhaps, if we want
to make a difference in thethings that matter, we just need
to release that tension andopen up our perspective, open up
our aperture to look at thingsfrom a different point of view.
And I just thought that wasremarkable and I cited her in
(28:24):
the book and I told her I would.
I said, if you don't mind, I'dlike to use this in my book.
And she said, of course.
And so the point is what abeautiful thing.
What if we viewed everyone,everyone to include?
Again, I spent time in theairport.
I never, and please, I'm notsaying any of this for any
gratification of me.
I'm saying it to make the pointbut I'm not saying any of this
(28:45):
for any gratification of me.
I'm saying it to make the pointthat I never miss the
opportunity to thank the personcleaning the bathrooms because,
gosh, if I got to talk to them,they'd probably share something
with me that would make my lifebetter, and I hope I could do
the same for them.
And there's just a lot ofpeople out there that that are
invisible or feel invisible, andwe need to make sure they know
they are visible.
Make sure they know they arevisible, and you can even.
Not only is that good for thesoul and it is but it's also
(29:08):
designed to make your lifebetter, because there's clues
out there.
We'll just open up our apertureand try to find them.
Speaker 2 (29:15):
That's beautiful.
You and I talked last week.
We were on this subject for afew moments and one of the
things that I thought of well,I've thought of this before as I
, in some of my coachingrelationships, I work on seeing
people in a third dimension.
I do believe when we go throughlife, whether we're at the
store, at a hotel, traveling ona plane, a train, wherever we
(29:38):
are, we do see peopletwo-dimensionally, you know, up
down sideways and that's what wesee.
But when you get to see, youget to spend some time talking
with them in a healthy, you know, mutual good, just a good solid
conversation, you see beyondwhat you see.
You see that you see into thedepth of them and you see them
(30:00):
in a third dimensionally.
Now it's like putting 3dglasses on, and I remember one
time I read a book, uh, and nowI'm gonna have to and I've had
um, gwendolyn bounds, wendybounds on the podcast twice.
She wrote.
She's written a couple offantastic books, um, little
chapel on the river, I think washer first book.
Um, and I hope I'm saying thatright.
(30:21):
I've read it twice.
Um, and it was a book about sheand her partner.
When they, when 9-11 hit, theyhad their apartment and their
apartment was destroyed.
So they went up to up river orupstate New York and they just
stopped at this little tavern,little Irish bar, and ended up
staying there for quite a whileI mean in the in the community
and would go in this bar andjust got to know all the
(30:43):
characters in the bar, all thepeople, and she wrote this book
about them.
And I remember I'm thinking, oh, my goodness, how many times
have I driven by a tavern or aschool or an office building or
whatever it might be, and justdrive by not realizing the life
that goes on behind those doors.
And I remember, after I finishedthe book, ray, I was driving to
(31:04):
the Grand Rapids airport to flyout somewhere for work.
And I remember driving by kindof a wetlands area on Patterson
Avenue in Grand Rapids, michigan, on the way to the airport.
And there was a wetlands areaand I looked at it thinking,
okay, here's another example.
All the life forms that are inthat wetlands the frogs, the
fish, the birds, the weas, knowthe weasels, the groundhogs,
(31:24):
whatever the muskrats, and howwe.
That was just an example of howmany times we just go through
life not seeing anything beyondwhat we see in front of us.
We don't look to.
You know, our peripheral visionis very weak and we don't look
to our right and to our left andup and down, and we don't
explore those other avenues oflife, those relationships, those
(31:45):
other communities, those othercultures, whatever it might be.
And when you do, and you do itwith an open heart and an open
mind there's so much power tothat and four years ago you
never would have convinced me ofthat.
Well, the book was the catalystwhen I read Gwendolyn Bounds
Wendy Bounds' book.
But it was really the start ofthis podcast thinking how many
(32:06):
amazing people You're.
The 145th episode in three anda half years of this show and
every person I have learnedsomething from and many of them
have become really good friendsof mine, people I'd never heard
of prior to interviewing them.
And I'm like everybody has astory.
Every single human being has astory that we could learn from,
(32:29):
we could teach them, they canteach us and we can make the
world a better place by thestory, experience and wisdom
that they have in their brains,and I think that's so powerful.
I loved, when you were sayingthat last week, that story of
the lady on the plane.
You know it's interesting.
I noticed, ray, like four orfive years ago I was having a
hard time sleeping and I noticedthat my hands were balled up
(32:49):
and like not clenched fists, butthey were balled up and I just
opened them up.
And so almost every night Ihave to consciously open my
fingers up and let them relax,and it's instantaneous for me
anyway.
I get more relaxed and that'show I fall asleep.
So, to play on what she saidabout healing, and I think that
just also it's symbolic ofopening up your heart and
(33:11):
opening up your mind, yes, andopening your eyes.
Well said, totally agree.
I want to ask you so thefinding joy in leadership.
You had mentioned a conceptwhen we talked on the phone
prior about mutualaccountability.
Yes, can you talk on thatsubject for the leaders and
executives and managers outthere, or really anybody raising
kids as a form of leadership?
Speaker 3 (33:33):
Absolutely, and I really do think this was the
biggest nugget from my PhDresearch research.
So, pure accountability, if wevisualize that it's basically
from a supervisor to an employeesaying, okay, so, brian, I work
(33:54):
for you.
So you would say to me, okay,ray, do you understand your job
description?
And I say, yes, yeah, brian, Ithink I do, I think I do.
And you say, okay, good, well,that's what we expect and we're
happy to have you on board.
So that's typicalaccountability.
If you pictured it in your mind.
In a way, it's kind of from thesupervisor down arrow pointing
(34:16):
down to the employee.
Mutual accountability is reallysimilar up to the point where
you ask me, brian, you say, okay, ray, do you understand your
job description?
And I say, yes, brian, I do.
And you say, okay, great, well,that's what we've hired you to
do.
And then you step across theline to me as my supervisor and
(34:39):
say, okay, ray, well, what doyou need from me for your
success?
And so if we visualize thatit's no longer from the
supervisor down to the employee,but it's on a parallel stream,
from the supervisor parallel tothe employee and the employee to
(34:59):
the supervisor in a two-way, ina mutual relationship, saying,
okay, I want you to besuccessful, ray.
So now that you've told me whatyou need from me, I will be
accountable to you to ensure Ido that.
And what I found was inorganizations that lived by
mutual accountability and, bythe way, my research fairly
(35:22):
extensive.
It's a very uncommon concept.
It exists in a lot of nonprofitorganizations, some
non-governmental organizations,some faith groups, but it is not
common throughout industry, andthe reason it's not is because
it takes a vulnerability fromthe supervisor to the employee.
(35:45):
But vulnerability can be a verypowerful thing.
But where it does exist, trustwithin those organizations is
remarkable.
And where trust is remarkable,creativity, innovation and
ingenuity explodes.
And so, when you think about it, in today's's marketplace,
where everybody's trying to getan edge, you can ask yourself
(36:06):
well, how do I get an edge?
Well, I can affect price, I canget more market share, I can do
all those things.
That's all true, but that'sfinite, I would argue it's
finite.
What's infinite is thecreativity, innovation and
ingenuity within the employeesthat you're privileged to lead,
and ingenuity within theemployees that you're privileged
(36:26):
to lead.
And when you can bring that out, you can launch a spaceship up
in the air, have the boosterfall off, the spaceship continue
and you can catch the booster.
I never would have thought thatwas possible, but it is, and
we're seeing things like that,and so that's the point.
The things that we haven'tthought about are out there and,
ironically, brian, it's nodifferent than the Native
(36:47):
American lady I talked to thatshared something with me that
made my life better.
Our job as leaders is to takecare of those employees, to give
them what they need for success, so that they can come up with
those things we've never thoughtof to make life better.
And it's within them.
It's not the clever leader.
(37:09):
A great leader is a farmer.
They're out there and they'retaking care of those that
they've been privileged to lead.
They're making sure that theyhave all the nutrients, all the
things they need to flourish,and so when there's success,
it's absolutely because thefarmer took care of these
employees and the employeescreated the success.
When there's failure, it'sactually the farmer's fault,
(37:32):
because the farmer didn'tprovide the things that were
needed.
These new ideas are going tocome from.
That's where solutions aregoing to come from, and they're
probably and it's an opinion,but they're probably not going
to come from the cleverness ofthe leader.
They're going to come from theinspiration the leader provides
(37:55):
to those employees that aregoing to come up with things
they never thought were possible.
And when you talk about findingjoy in leadership, that's where
joy resides.
Joy resides in thistrust-building, mutual
accountability, where theleaders just stand in awe of how
awesome these people are, thatthey're privileged to lead, and
the creative, innovative andingenious solutions they're
(38:17):
coming up with Wonderful.
Speaker 2 (38:20):
You know, one of the things I've seen so many times
in the research Ray is acrossthe country and I think it's
actually across all developedcountries, and I've seen
multiple independent empiricalstudies and research on this
that shows that 26% of workersare engaged in their jobs,
Meaning they like their jobs,they're great for the culture,
(38:41):
they come in every day.
Not only do they come in and dotheir job, they're always
trying to improve their abilityto what I call reach their peak
potential.
And that's 26% of people and,quite frankly, those are pretty
easy people to lead.
Speaker 1 (38:55):
It's like what do you need?
What?
Speaker 2 (38:56):
resources do you need and how do I remove obstacles
for you?
Then you have I'm going to go.
The flip-flop is 19% areactively disengaged, meaning
these are people there that youreally can't turn around.
I mean, if you wanted to spendthe time turning those I'm going
to call them bottom peoplearound, you're going to waste so
many resources that are neededfor the other people and so a
(39:18):
lot of those are toxic people.
Sometimes they're just in thewrong culture, they're in the
wrong job but they're neverreally going to rise to that
next level.
But in the middle group you have55% who are just simply just
disengaged.
They're not actively disengagedand they're not engaged.
They're just disengaged,meaning they feel they're lost,
they feel they're on the hamsterwheel.
They've lost their mojo, theirinspiration, they feel
(39:42):
unempowered or there's somethingit could be something happening
in their personal life that'saffecting their professional
life.
And I think the idea of buildingthat trust or the mutual
accountability and the way youdescribed it, is the antidote
for a lot of those people,because they seem unheard and
unseen and once you go down alittle bit of a rabbit hole,
(40:03):
it's easy to keep slipping.
And when a leader can help pickyou back out of that rabbit
hole.
I always tell people, if youcan bring those people around
and really help them they'reemotionally, mentally,
physically, whatever it needsthose are going to be your by
far your best apostles from thispoint forward, and I think this
(40:23):
idea of mutual accountabilityis a powerful tool that I had
never considered when I workwith my clients on this subject.
So I appreciate that.
That's why I'm so excited toread the book.
I just got to get done withthis book I'm reading right now.
It's been taking me forever.
You know what I started reading, ray.
I finished a book called theRogue Warrior, the guy who
(40:44):
started SEAL, team 6, which is apretty dark book.
It's a good book, but I gave ita three star.
It wasn't a five star for me,but it was a three star, but I
was.
I was interested in the subjectmatter, but I got done.
I'm like I need to readsomething light that takes me
away.
So I started reading booknumber five of harry potter, the
order of the phoenix man, andI'm just I'm just loving it.
I'm just loving it.
I'm just loving it, man.
(41:05):
I read the other ones years agoand then I stopped and went on
to some other things, but it'sgood to come back to a lighter
book every once in a while.
Absolutely, absolutely, yeah.
So I'm going to include linksto both of the books in the show
notes today, folks.
So please click on those.
I'll include the ones to Amazon, but if you shop somewhere else
, please look for both of thebooks that Ray has the Joy of
(41:30):
Leadership and Finding Joy inLeadership and Finding Joy in
your Golden Years.
Just based on what I've learnedabout Ray and having
conversation with Ray the lastcouple of weeks, I know they're
going to be great.
I'm not quite ready for thesecond one though, ray, I'll
give you a couple of years,that's fair.
Absolutely.
You know what's funny, though,I've had a couple of people who
are in the financial world whichis a lot of my world is
(41:52):
coaching, you know, financialexecutives or financial advisors
and things of that nature andI've had a couple of people in
the last three or four monthswho are have been doing this
career of financial advising andcounseling and planning for
several decades and a couple ofdecades or more, who are now
looking at this idea of.
I kind of want to get out ofthis and I want to go start
doing something more and helpingthese people as they transition
(42:16):
to retirement and not financial, but give them some game plans,
some guides.
So I recommend it to one of mybest friends last week who
mentioned this a couple of times.
They said, hey, I've got aguest coming on next week.
I'll send you the podcast assoon as we're done.
But his book would be a reallygood resource if that's
something you're interested in,and even for all you financial
advisors out there who areworking with people who are
(42:38):
looking at retirement soon ormaybe are retired, this could be
a great book to understand whatthey're going through and help
them to formulate a plan and asuccession or not a succession
plan, but to formulate what'stheir purpose.
You know, and what do you donow?
Because to me you've helpedthese clients grow for decades
to get to retirement.
Now they're there, you can'tjust drop them off at the bus
(42:59):
depot.
You got to keep them going, yougot to help them with.
You know, what do they do nextonce they do retire?
Because you know, I think a lotof people envision ray is
looking at I'm going to retire,I'm going to golf, I'm going to
do, but the things and a friendof mine, chuck wackendorfer, was
on the podcast a few months agoand he said the things that we
like to do and I'm going tobutcher how he said this are not
(43:22):
the things you want to do everyday the rest of your life.
It's like, yeah, you might loveto golf, you might love to sail
, but when it's something youstart to do every day and that's
all you do, it takes away a lotof the, the, the energy from
that, that passion.
And I do.
I think you're right and againI.
10 years ago you never wouldhave convinced me of this, but
(43:43):
now I'm a full, firm believerthat so much of our purpose is
what we give back to others.
It really is.
When you do something for others, it's, it's.
And maybe when you're youngeryou don't see that, and maybe
that really isn't a part of yourpurpose.
But what you talk to anybodywho is 50 or older, you really,
what you hear so much more of isI just want to help, I want to
(44:04):
serve, I want to be obedient, Iwant to give back.
I hear that so often.
And actually the cool thing,though, ray, I've got a couple
of clients who are very young,very aggressive builders of
their empires, and they saythey're doing this not like me
30 years ago, they're doing itbecause they want to serve other
people, and I love that.
I love that.
Speaker 3 (44:26):
Yep, and that's the key, that there's joy in that.
It's so counterintuitive,because you know, we think that
if we give too much we won't getin return, because that doesn't
seem to be intuitive, but it'scounterintuitive the more you
give, the more you get, and justthe joy from that is, it's just
remarkable.
(44:46):
And and to kind of piggyback onwhat you said, brian, because I
do want to kind of make a pointof that is that more and more
financial planning organizationsare now starting to realize the
importance of the clientsthey've worked with successfully
over all those years of havinga plan.
And I'm, I am I tell you allthis because I talk with other,
(45:08):
I'm also a retirement coach, soI talk with other retirement
coaches and I'm I am a rookie atthis, so I'm in my first year,
so take it for what it's worth.
But but I talk with people thataren't rookies, that are
veterans, and they're sayingabsolutely, and and they're
finding that more and moreretirement coaches are
partnering up with no-transcriptto come up with that, and so I
(45:50):
think that's a reallyinteresting thing and I think
that I think we're going to seemore and more of that, and
that's important because, if Ihaven't said it.
I believe I have on the podcast.
If I have said it before,forgive me for my redundancy,
but with 11,000, 11,000 babyboomers turning 65 today,
tomorrow and for the rest of theyear and the year that follows,
(46:11):
1.4 million every year, that'sa lot of people, and so they've
all, a lot of them, havefinancially planned, but the
real question is, have theyplanned for what to do with
those finances in their lives?
And so I think that's wherethis becomes, you know, the
discover joy in your goldenyears becomes an interesting
concept and one worthconsidering.
Wow, 11,000 a day, yeah, isn'tthat amazing?
Speaker 2 (46:36):
I don't blow your mind, In seven years I'll be one
of those 11,000.
Speaker 3 (46:40):
Exactly.
I didn't realize that babyboomers were that big, but now I
know they are and I'm at thetail end of that.
Just for the record that.
Speaker 2 (46:49):
I am one.
I'm on the top end of Xers.
I was born in 67.
So I'm an older generation Xer.
Yes, you're a seasoned Xer, I'ma seasoned Xer.
Yeah, I just want to take amoment here before we go on to
recognize our newest sponsor,ray.
Anyone who knows me knows Idon't like to cook.
However, I'm definitelyconcerned about what goes in my
(47:13):
body and I do appreciate a greatmeal.
Today I want to thank ournewest sponsor, milford Spice
Company.
Milford Spice Company was bornfrom a passion for sharing
healthy, delicious meals withloved ones around the table.
They believe ingredients matterand their products are free
from gluten, fillers,anti-caking agents and
preservatives.
Many are also salt and orsugar-free.
They contain fresh ground herbsand spices handcrafted to
(47:33):
provide an amazing, robustflavor, starting in their
founder's kitchen, I think,20-some years ago.
They are now in retail storesthroughout the United States and
their mission still remains thesame to make it easy, to make
it better.
So, even though I don't cook Idon't cook at all.
Actually these spices have beenshipped for a while to wherever
I am at the time, and my hostsare always excited to cook for
me using only Milford Spices.
(47:53):
So thank you very much, MilfordSpices, all right.
Can I ask very much milfordspices?
All right, um, can I ask apersonal question?
Right?
Yes, you may.
This is a question I love toask people, um, because it
really helps myself and theaudience to kind of understand
them a great deal better.
And the question is what is oneof the most difficult things
(48:13):
you've ever gone through in yourlife and how did you overcome
it?
Speaker 3 (48:19):
That is a good question.
I've been blessed in my lifewith several challenging things
to overcome, and I say thatbecause it's true and because we
learn more from those thingsthat we're challenged by and
that we do overcome.
But I think, if I my initialanswer is probably the one that
(48:42):
is the most accurate, the onethat pops into my head, and that
is that, and I think others canrelate to this.
So I was in the Air Force for23 years and I was very
fortunate to have severalleadership positions and my
career was going very, very,very well, and so I really would
(49:06):
have left to my own devices,would have stayed in probably
for 35 years as long as theywould have me, and, as a quick
corollary, that means I probablywouldn't have left the table
hungry, and we'll come back tothat in a minute.
But the biggest challenge I hadwas after a wonderful assignment
in Germany just an incredibleassignment and my wife and my
(49:29):
two boys and we had finished.
It was a very intense job forme but very rewarding.
And we had finished that joband and um, I was selected for
another leadership opportunityand uh, so, uh, I chatted with
my wife and came, we came to thefamily conclusion that we
needed to slow down.
(49:50):
Things were moving too fast andour kids were growing and and
this was going to become moreand more difficult to move
around so frequently.
And so it was hard for mebecause I felt that I was doing
what I was supposed to do andmoving in the direction I was
supposed to be going, and, byGod's grace and by my wonderful
(50:13):
wife, she woke me up a littlebit to say hey, there's things
more important than this yourfamily and your kids.
And so I made the decision toretire, and it was incredibly
difficult, but I will tell youwiser now in knowing what I know
.
Now.
(50:33):
I am so thankful for thatbecause I did leave the table
hungry.
You asked the question earlier,brian.
You know you've done thesedifferent things and what
motivates you to do that?
Well, I think there's somethingto be said by leaving the table
hungry in many things we do,because when you leave the table
hungry, you still havesomething left in the tank for
what that next phase is going tobe like.
(50:54):
And that inspired me when Iretired to run that small IT
services company and then getback into the airlines and
perhaps write.
Maybe that's part of my passionfor writing.
I don't know.
But what I do know is that Ithink it would be fascinating if
I hadn't done that.
The probability of me writingbooks and the probability of me
(51:16):
running a company, those wouldbe very, very low.
So I've been blessed by threedifferent, significantly
different careers in my life andit's because I was able to
navigate, by my wonderful wifeand family, that very, very,
very difficult choice I had tomake.
Speaker 2 (51:36):
You say three careers , you have six.
Now that you're a retirementcoach, I'm adding, I'm adding
titles to your okay, you're aretirement coach.
That's really cool.
So that's kind of what we weretalking about.
I didn't even know there was aname for it retirement coach.
Um yeah yeah, that's reallyinteresting.
Military ceo pilot, author, phdand retirement coach Ray
(51:58):
Phillips I think we'll just callyou Ray.
Speaker 3 (52:02):
There you go.
I like that the best.
Speaker 2 (52:05):
Ray, what do you consider in your life to be a
win that, when something happensyou either are part of or you
witness, you feel like, oh mygosh, that's a victory.
Speaker 3 (52:15):
Well, that's an easy answer for me and I can give you
three good examples reallyquickly.
So when I had my first commandin the military, I was a squad
(52:35):
to get this job.
How will I define success?
How will I define success?
Whoa, that's a good question.
And I decided that the answer tothat was if I could positively
impact just one person, oneperson in my organization's life
, by my leadership, I was goingto call that success and I've
(52:57):
shared that with people beforeand I'm not being critical
because I think it's a gooddiscussion, but I shared that
one time with somebody to gowhoa, you're setting the bar
really low.
And I thought, yeah, maybe, butmaybe not, because a win in
life for me is just positivelyimpacting the life of one other
(53:17):
person.
And then when you look at thesetwo joy books so I'm clearly on
a joy theme but joy inleadership and joy in your
golden years is by positivelyimpacting just one life, at
least one life, let's say atleast, maybe, at least is a
little better Positivelyimpacting at least one life in
(53:40):
your sphere of influence.
And as a leader.
That's when you realize theprivilege of leadership and you
build that trust and the mutualaccountability we talked about.
And then in retirement it'sdiscovering who you are and it's
saying all the skills andthings you've got over the years
how to make things better forthe generations behind you.
So that's the win.
Make things better for thegenerations behind you, so
(54:01):
that's the win.
And if you've ever tasted that,it's remarkable, because what
you see in the eyes of somebodyelse that you've helped is
priceless.
I mean you could be paid Icould be paid seven figures
every year and never see thatand never find joy.
Ever see that and never findjoy.
Or I could be paid four figuresevery year, five figures,
(54:28):
whatever it is, and see thatevery day and be satisfied.
So that's a win and that's theimpetus behind these books and
that's, I think, what CharlesSmith helped me understand by
having a good attitude, wastrying to see if you could see
that in others having a goodattitude was trying to see if
you could see that in others.
Speaker 2 (54:43):
And I do you wish?
Do you?
How do you?
I shouldn't say, do we wishthis?
How do we help a person whomight be 30 or 35 or 40, who's
really building that empire?
Because I look back at myselfand I did not have that
mentality of you know impactinga life.
How do you empower or inspire ayounger person to take that
mentality on?
You know impacting a life.
How do you empower or inspire ayounger person to take that
mentality on as well?
Speaker 3 (55:05):
That's a really, really, really good question.
And and I think the answer tothat question is is um, and and
I'm going to use this as anexample cause I think it's
relative, but the whole trustmodel that I use in that first
book is about transparentcommunications, relational
expectations, personal andprofessional growth, and then
(55:27):
ownership or empowerment.
And when you talk aboutpersonal or professional growth
and, brian, I know thismotivated me too at those ages
because I read a book calledRogers Rules for Success by
Henry Rogers and I lived by thatbook I said this is good stuff
and I wrote a, made a littlecard and I followed it every day
.
Now, the reason I did that wasbecause, selfishly, I thought
(55:48):
this will help me be successful.
And so I think when we're inour thirties and maybe forties,
early forties, and we've we'vegot that inspiration and all
those things, I think that'swhere we communicate
transparently and we set up agood relationship, we're
building that trust.
But then we ask them you knowwell, what are your personal
(56:11):
goals?
I know what your professionalgoals are, but what are your
personal goals?
You know?
That's what's fascinating,brian, not everybody, but so
many people talk aboutprofessional goals.
Well, what do you want to do.
Well, I want to grow this to X,or I want to run this company,
or I want to do that.
Okay, awesome, that's awesome.
But before you can reallyunderstand the probability of
that happening, you have to alsoincorporate what are your
(56:33):
personal goals?
What really gets you up in themorning and gets you pumped up?
Where do you find your joy?
Where do you find yoursatisfaction?
And sometimes those are thingsyou really have to think through
and talk through, especiallywhen we're in our 30s.
I think those are hard answersto give.
Marry personal goals withprofessional goals.
(57:02):
That figuring out how to impactsomebody's life light will come
on, because that's where itcomes on.
You know we want affirmation,we want to know we're making a
difference.
Well, how do you know you'remaking a difference?
And where do you get youraffirmation?
Well, I get my affirmation fromothers, or sometimes the people
who work with me will saythings oh, cool, yeah.
And so I think that's therevelation that has to occur is
(57:25):
that for you to be successful isnot you can't do it by yourself
.
It's going to have to be in agroup setting, a team setting
perhaps.
And when it's in the teamsetting and you see the team win
, that's where you realize, wow,that's what this is about.
It's about making that impactand that's why.
(57:45):
That's why, interestinglyenough, you know, um, these
concepts of building trust anddeciding who you are and what's
important to you are reallyimportant at any phase of life.
Because the sooner you figurethat out, the better, because
you know one of my favoritequotes and I'm sure you've heard
this, brian, but I feel like Ilived it.
(58:05):
I didn't totally live it, but Iwas cautious about it.
But the quote goes be carefulnot to spend your entire life
climbing the ladder of successonly to find out it's leaning
against the wrong wall.
And that's powerful.
And I think, to avoid itleaning against the wrong wall,
we've got to make sure thatpeople understand that it's
(58:26):
through the eyes of seeingothers succeed that creates
those wins.
Speaker 2 (58:32):
I remember that quote from Stephen Covey.
Yes, is that him?
Yeah, it is.
I'm pretty sure it's Covey.
I know it's in Seven Habits ofHighly Effective People.
I know that, but I don't knowif that was Hidge's original
quote or not, but that's anotherone that has that one stuck
with me since I was in my early20s or mid 20s when I first read
that book.
That's a great quote.
Speaker 3 (58:52):
Yeah absolutely.
Speaker 2 (58:55):
I really like the idea of marrying your personal
and professional goals, and oneof the things I try to get out
of my clients and sometimes it'shard is your purpose in life,
and I do a lot of talks andcoaching on developing your
purpose.
And what I tell people is, ifyou use the term marry and I
think that's a really good one Ihaven't used that term, but
(59:23):
let's all use it If you canmarry your personal and
professional purpose and haveone overreaching purpose that
you can apply both to yourprofessional life as well as
your professional life, wow,it's like you turn on the
afterburners.
When you do that yes, youreally do, and I think that's
powerful.
I think sometimes peopleconfuse purpose with goals, and
I know your goals are differentpersonally and professionally,
but there should be anoverarching umbrella across both
of those your personal,professional goals.
That is your purpose, youraspiration of who do you want to
(59:44):
become and how do you want toimpact the world, and then you
can do that both in yourpersonal life and your
professional life.
I think that's when you can dothat man.
That's a powerful.
That's a powerful direction togo in, totally agree, all right,
so you talked about.
You know we're talking aboutkind of the younger generation.
So let's go back, let's takeyou as younger Ray Phillips, if
I have my time machine and I'mcoming out there just north of
(01:00:06):
Denver and we're going to jumpin that time machine this
afternoon and we're going to goback to any time in history, ray
, that you want to go back intoand you can talk to your younger
self.
What words of wisdom, recipesfor success or advice would you
give the younger Ray?
Speaker 3 (01:00:24):
Well, I have thought about this too, because I think
I might've shared it with myboys as I want to help them to
be smarter than me, and asthey've grown up.
But it's resonated with me fora very long time that nobody
ever told me how hard life wouldbe and I don't say that
(01:00:45):
negatively, I just say itfactually.
And sometimes the hardestthings in life are the ones that
are so.
They're most rewarding, they'rethe most meaningful.
So the first thing I would tellmy younger self is hey, ray,
life's going to be hard.
You're not going to escape that, it's just going to be hard.
And what I really want you tothink about, younger Ray, is I
(01:01:07):
want you to embrace it.
I want you to embrace thechallenges.
Because if you can embrace thechallenges, don't avoid them.
Embrace them.
That is what will mold yourcharacter.
That is what will mold yourcharacter, that is what will
make you stronger.
And so you're not going toavoid the challenges that come
your way.
They're going to come your way.
But what you can do and again Iwant to give credit to Charles
(01:01:30):
Smith is you can have anattitude that says embrace them.
You know, get frustratedinitially, go darn it.
I can't believe this happensand as soon as you're done
huffing and puffing a couple oftimes, just say okay, it's
happened.
Now there's a great quote,another quote that comes to mind
in it.
I can't remember who said this,it might be Jim Rohn but it's
not what happens, it's what youdo that makes the difference in
(01:01:53):
results.
And I should know that.
I've seen that recently.
But boy, that's a powerfulquote.
Because it's not what happens,because it's going to happen.
Life is going to happen, butit's what you do that makes the
difference in results.
And I did figure that out laterin life.
But I think that's a goldennugget that the sooner you can
(01:02:15):
figure that out, the sooner youcan embrace that that it's not
when all things are going yourway that you grow the most.
It's when things aren't goingyour way and they're your
opportunities to grow.
Speaker 2 (01:02:29):
Life is hard.
Embrace it.
Somebody asked me one time, ray, I think it was I had somebody
I had a friend of mine interviewme on this podcast, as I was
the guest and he was the host,and just to turn it around a
little bit so the audience couldlearn a little bit more about
me, and they asked me who thegreatest influence was.
(01:02:50):
Mine was my mother, and we wenton and then he said well, what
was it?
My mother never said thesewords to me, but the one thing I
learned most from her is thatlife is hard or life is tough.
Be tougher, and I think a lotof it.
And I think a lot of times intoday's society we are trying to
mold the world to fit ourchildren versus getting our
(01:03:13):
children ready to fit the world.
Speaker 3 (01:03:15):
Brilliant.
Speaker 2 (01:03:16):
That's a dangerous, dangerous slippery slope because
the world is not going tochange for your child.
Whether you try to change theworld, it's not going to happen.
The world is the world and itis hard.
And if we don't make ourchildren ready for that, what is
the old saying?
I'd rather be a warrior in agarden and a gardener in a war.
Exactly, train your children tobe tough emotionally and
(01:03:37):
mentally, and physically if youcan, but mostly mentally and
emotionally.
And that's why this idea ofstoicism has really gotten a
rebirth when Ryan Holiday wrotehis book the Obstacle is the Way
, maybe 15 years ago.
And this philosophy of stoicismabout how do you handle the
(01:03:57):
difficulties in life and how doyou handle the high moments too.
You don't want to get toowrapped up in the highs or the
lows.
You want to keep yourself at apretty good emotional and mental
state of stability, becauseit's going to come, whether you
like it or not.
So be ready for it.
Speaker 3 (01:04:13):
Well, I liken it.
My wife's a big tennis playerand so therefore I watch every
tennis tournament in the worldand I've grown to love it, so at
one point I whined.
Now I love it.
But tennis is a fascinatinggame, especially singles,
because when you're on top youcan be ahead 5-2, and it's
amazing how many 5-2 sets arelost.
(01:04:35):
And the reason they're lost isexactly what you're saying,
brian.
You're feeling, hey, I'm there,I got this thing won.
And the minute you think thatyour opponent now has the edge
to beat you.
And then the same breath, whenlife's really hard, when you're
down two to five and you feellike, oh, this is just not going
my way, you've got to dig downdeep and say I just need to win
(01:04:58):
the next point, just one pointat a time, and before you know
it, you're going to win it.
And it's that mentality, it'sthat idea in any sport or in any
endeavor that you never give up.
You say, okay.
Well, what can I learn fromthis?
What's going on right now?
What can I learn from this?
How do I make this better?
How do I move one step forward?
How do I get the next point?
And, yeah, that is becoming alittle bit of a lost art but oh
(01:05:22):
my gosh, what incredible fertileground for leaders out there
and retirees to help the nextgeneration turn that around.
Speaker 2 (01:05:31):
That would be a purpose, a perfect use of a lot
of people's time is to help thatyounger generation realize that
and really come to that, that,that and that's an aha moment.
For a lot of younger peoplethat's an aha moment Cause they
have not been told that before.
Um, I mean yes, yes, so you'vegot all these.
You've got this amazing 60, isit 63 or 65?
(01:05:55):
How old are you, ray?
I'll be 65 June 12th, is thatnext Thursday?
It is.
The podcast will be released onyour birthday week.
Speaker 3 (01:06:07):
Oh, that's wonderful, We'll do it yeah.
Speaker 2 (01:06:09):
So what's next for you?
Speaker 3 (01:06:12):
Well, thank you for asking.
I will tell you I'm sopassionate and I hope I conveyed
that, I believe I did, I hope Idid but I'm so passionate about
joy, I'm so passionate aboutleadership and I'm definitely
passionate about people turning65 and entering their golden
(01:06:33):
years, of which I am one, that Iwould love to live out the rest
of my days, as long as I can,coaching, being a leadership
coach, a retirement coach,writing books and inspiring.
And it goes back to thequestion you asked.
You know what's a win for youin life?
A win for me is to continue tosee that look in someone's face
(01:06:54):
when you've helped make theirlife better and make a
difference.
And so that's what's next forme.
You know I'm going to continuewriting, coaching, consulting um
and just doing what I can do umto to help make a difference.
Speaker 2 (01:07:08):
Well, please do, cause we definitely need you.
We need you doing that and andyou, you're, you're uh, when
it's impacting one life, you'reimpacting a lot of life.
You impact my life.
I can tell you that just in ourconversation last week and
today I'm I'm jotting notes downhere on my side table.
So, um, great quotes.
I love that idea Leave thetable hungry.
I really liked that.
(01:07:29):
That has a lot of connotationsto me and I was thinking in my
head what, how do I apply that?
And I can see so manyapplications for me.
Um, okay, so final question, myfriend is is there any question
, ray, that I did not ask thatyou wish I would have?
Or is there any kind of finalmessage you want to leave with
that bamboo pack?
Speaker 3 (01:07:48):
audience.
Well, um, no questions, thiswas just an incredible
conversation.
And for that audience, um, Iwant and I mean this sincerely,
and if you get a book because itinterests you, you'll see it in
the book because I bring it up.
I think I bring it up in theacknowledgements in the Discover
(01:08:08):
Joy, in your Golden Years bookbut I want every listener to
know that they truly areremarkable.
The challenges you've all had inyour lives, the successes
you've had in your lives havemolded you into who you are and
you have so much to give,whether that's as a leader,
whether that's as a retiree inyour community.
(01:08:30):
You've got so much to give.
You've got so much morepotential to realize and explore
goals to set and things likethat.
Realize and explore goals toset and things like that.
And there's people out therethat are just waiting for you to
make that impact.
So I just want to thank them.
I want to thank anybody thatlistened to this.
I want to thank anybody thatgets the books or is curious
(01:08:52):
about this.
If this makes your lives better, then this has been a win for
me.
But don't miss the importanceof how special you are.
I want to leave with one lastpoint, because I would feel bad
if I forgot to say this.
So remember, I made the bigpoint about babysitting and
(01:09:13):
meeting Charles Smith, who waslike a father to me.
Well, it ends up.
I did babysit and I ended uphaving the privilege and this is
critical in light of everythingI've said I had the privilege
to babysit for a Down Syndromegirl young girl name was Rita,
and I don't know how thathappened.
I don't even know why thisfamily decided to ask me to do
(01:09:36):
that, but they did, and I willtell you that I learned more
from her than there's anything Iever taught her.
She was always happy, she wasalways happy to see me, she was
always happy-go-lucky.
And you know, society andhumanity says that she had a
(01:09:56):
handicap, and I can understand,perhaps, why they say that.
But I will tell you that shedidn't have a handicap.
I had a handicap because Ididn't realize how beautiful
this young lady was and howhappy she could be, just at her
desire.
So she changed my life and sothat makes the point that I've
(01:10:17):
just made that you never know.
You know the impact you canmake in somebody else's life or
they can make in yours, andeverybody is special and
everybody has something to give.
And if we would just look forthat boy, we can.
We can move the rudder on thisbig boat world in a pretty big
way and change the world prettybig way and change the world.
Speaker 2 (01:10:43):
Well, ray, I normally give a final thought after that
final question, but I'm goingto leave it because your answer
was more profound than anythingI can come up with.
You are a gift, my friend.
You are a gift, you really are.
Speaker 3 (01:10:54):
Wow Well, thanks, Brian.
I appreciate that.
I really appreciate theopportunity.
Speaker 2 (01:10:59):
Oh, please stay on the phone for a little bit when
we're done here.
But I want to recommendeverybody please get on Amazon,
barnes and Noble dot com or goto your favorite bookstore and
find Finding Joy in Leadershipand Discovery, joy in your
Golden Years.
Like I said, we'll have someshow notes.
At the bottom of the show notesyou can click on those.
I sometimes struggle with howto edit those in there, but I'm
doing my best every time.
But you have the names of themfolks, so get on Amazon and
(01:11:20):
check them out.
Ray, first of all, happybirthday next Thursday.
Thank you and Godspeed on yourlast few flights here before you
retire officially.
I hope this is a momentous capto your flying career.
Speaker 3 (01:11:38):
Well, I appreciate that as well, absolutely.
And thank you for being one ofthe more inspiring and
empowering guests I've ever hadon the Bamboo Lab podcast.
Well, I take that as an honor.
Thank you, Brian, very much.
Speaker 2 (01:11:49):
It's an honor Folks, I want to thank you for tuning
in.
I know all of you got a lot outof this podcast, this
particular episode.
Please share this with fivepeople you love and care about,
this podcast, this particularepisode.
Please share this with fivepeople you love and care about.
Let them gleam the wisdom thatRay shared with us of his
experiences, of that he'salready had and he's continuing
to create now and in the future,of impacting lives.
Staying hungry at the table,leaving the table hungry.
(01:12:09):
I love that quote.
Please smash that like button,rate and review us and, again,
share this with five people youlove.
I'll see you all next week,same time, same place.
In the meantime, please get outthere and strive to give and be
your best, show love andrespect to others, and also show
it to yourself, and please livewith intention and purpose.
I appreciate you all.
Until next time.
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