"Selection is Destiny" with the transformational Beth Fisher

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A life can look like momentum from the outside—30 marathons, corporate wins, a bestselling debut, a full speaking calendar—and still be built on choices that didn’t honor the person inside. That clash is where Beth Fisher found her pivot. We sit down with Beth—business coach, speaker, and author—to trace the arc from checklist living to clear-eyed selection, from noisy achievement to calm, durable contentment.

Beth opens up about the experiences that sharpened her discernment: surviving leukemia, navigating divorce, confronting a covert narcissist, and carrying the quiet weight of parenting guilt and empty nest grief. She doesn’t romanticize the pain or rush past it. Instead, she shows how to sit with it, journal through it, and use your body’s signals—sleepless nights, stress, fatigue—as data you can act on. Her central case is bold and simple: selection is destiny. Who you choose as a partner, the leaders you follow, the friends you keep, and the habits you repeat will script your next decade. Choose with non‑negotiables. Leave early when misaligned. Be more interested than interesting. And trust what your gut knows before your head admits it.

We also get inside her creative process—pantser first, architect later—and the story behind her books: Remorseless and the upcoming Selection Process: How to Avoid a Loser Relationship. From there, we widen the lens: stoicism as a daily practice, the power of solitude, and the “goose vs. golden eggs” mindset that turns outcomes into byproducts of strong inputs. When Beth slowed down—coffee under the stars instead of 4 a.m. grind—her work got better, her joy returned, and contentment replaced pressure. She still plays to win (hello, pickleball singles), but she’s done performing for the wrong audience.

If you’ve felt “something’s off” in your relationships, career, or routines, this conversation gives you language, tools, and permission to act. Subscribe for more candid, practical conversations on growth, share this with a friend who needs the nudge, and leave a review to tell us the one non‑negotiable you’re choosing next.

https://bethfisher.com/about/

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Episode Transcript

Speaker (00:00):
Hello and welcome to the Bamboo Lab Podcast with your
host, Peak Performance CoachBrian Bosley.
Are you stuck on the hamsterwheel of life, spinning and
spinning, but not really movingforward?
Are you ready to jump off andsoar?
Are you finally ready to sculptyour life?
If so, you've landed in theright place.

(00:21):
This podcast is created andbroadcast just for you.
All of you strivers, thrivers,and survivors out there.
If you'd like to learn moreabout Brian and the Bamboo Lab,
feel free to reach out toexplore your true peak level at
www.bamboolab3.com.

Brian (00:41):
Welcome everyone to this week's episode of the Bamboo Lab
Podcast.
As always, I'm your host,Brian.
And today, for the second timein one year or about 11 months,
we have an amazing lady on thatI've gotten in over the years,
and we've been friends on socialmedia, we've been able to
communicate.
She's in a similar field as Iam.
I have a great deal of respectfor.
We did a podcast uh, I think11, 12 months ago, and the audio

(01:04):
was not, it just wasn't therefor some reason.
There was something between thelines, and I couldn't get it
repaired.
So I've been asking her to comeback, and her busy schedule
allowed her to come back today.
So today we have businesscoach, we have speaker, we have
author, Beth Fisher on.
My friend Beth, welcome back tothe Bamboo Laps.
Thank you.

Beth (01:23):
Thank you, Brian.
I'm happy to be here.
I'm glad it finally worked outagain for us.

Brian (01:27):
You know, it's so weird though.
I felt so bad because weinterviewed and then I just kind
of forgot to tell you that itdidn't go out.
And I think it we reached outand then we reached out again.
I'm like, oh yeah.
Yeah, I think I did like, hey,there's some problems with it,
but then that went on like a fewmonths, and I'm like, I better
tell Beth I can't put this outor something.
So I felt bad.
So I'm glad you're back onfriend.

unknown (01:47):
Yeah.

Brian (01:48):
You've had a lot of things uh have changed in your
life over the past year or so.
So we have a lot of greatthings to talk about.
So maybe it was a blessing indisguise that we weren't able to
put that show out, but we'reable to put this one out because
you've got a whole more year ofwisdom and experience lined up.
So I'm just gonna start off.
Can you tell a little bit tothe of the audience about
yourself, who you're who youare, where you're from, family,
what inspired you?
Just give us what you want.

Beth (02:10):
Sure, sure.
So um I grew up in NortheastOhio.
I'm a Midwestern girl throughand through, uh, went to the
Ohio State University, and I nowlive in Michigan.
So, right, that's the enemystate, but um beautiful here.
And I um have I was raised uhto well, I grew up in the 80s,
and I am sort of an overachieverby trade and have always been

(02:32):
that way.
So I learned, as I tell peoplewhen I, you know, public speak
frequently, that I basicallylearned most of my education
through the school of hardknocks, like what not to do.
So I made all kinds of choicesbased on what I thought society
expected and parents expected,and like the church people
expected.
And ultimately now in my early50s, have come to realize that

(02:52):
um, you know, that was just allum inaccurate, especially for
me.
And so I um uh really kind offailed, if failing is even a
thing, um, the mostrelationally, but professionally
has been great.
Um, first 25 years of mycareer, I was in corporate sales
and sold business processautomation, like software.
I was in the tech world.

(03:13):
So I have a high acumen for umbusiness processes.
I love organizational changeand I love people.
I'm highly extroverted.
So I love that career, 25 yearsof it.
And then I also have a heartvery much so for like
marginalized communities.
And then I moved into nonprofitand was the chief advancement
officer of a homeless shelterfor three and a half years.
So I loved that work as well.

(03:33):
Uh in fact, I have um it is,yeah, Meltder Ministries in
Grand Rapids.
Yeah.
Um, so yeah, just you know,people who are experiencing
hunger and homelessness.
And for me, I'm a for anyEnneagram listeners out there, I
am I've been a three kind of mywhole life, which is the
achiever, no surprise there, butalso very much an eight, which
is kind of a oh, somebody who'svery direct.

(03:56):
And I love what a lot of peoplecall confrontation, because I
don't view confrontation asnegative.
I view it as, hey, let's likeair out the differences and
let's just figure it out.
And so for me, I'm highly umequity and justice focused.
So I have a real low tolerancefor when things are inequitable.
And for me, I can neverreconcile the things in the

(04:18):
world that just don't makesense.
Like, I'm sorry, how do we livein the United States and people
are hungry, right?
And people are homeless.
And so between that and thenthe people kind of in the cheap
seats who say, well, theyshould, they, they, first of
all, should just get a job.
So my heart really um that thatcareer path switch really um
spoke to me because I wasteaching devotions to the guests

(04:40):
there for um, well, weekly forabout five or six years before
they asked me to come on staff.
So really long-winded way tosay I still help for uh
nonprofits across the countryfor business process sort of
like automation.
I help them with developmentstrategy, um with basically
fundraising and helping outtheir causes.
So I have a real heart forthat.
And I do a lot of publicspeaking and writing.
So that's a really I'm tryingto get there, Brian, but like

(05:03):
you know, 52 years ofinformation.
It's kind of hard to like wrapthat up.

Brian (05:06):
That was actually pretty succinct.
I don't think there's anyproblem.
Yeah, I did I did the Enneagramtest.
I you as you said that I thinkI took we discussed this last
year, I think.
But I did it, uh showed it tomy friend Jill Johnson who uh
administered it to me umprobably eight, nine years ago.
And I can't remember.
I was just when you weretalking, I was trying to Google
to see if I had it somewhere.
Or not Google, but uh I was onmy uh my email to see if uh I

(05:28):
have it somewhere, and I don'teven remember what my results
were.
But I remember looking at itgoing, yep, that's pretty much
me.
Yeah um probably pretty similarto yours um in the achievements
process.
I don't I don't remember muchabout it, but um well I want to
do shout out because I know sixyears ago you wrote a book that
I believe was published in Marchof 25 called Remorseless.
4.5 out of five star rating onAmazon.com.

(05:49):
So we'll try to include a linkto that.
And now your newest book willbe released feb on Valentine's
Day of 26th, right?

Beth (05:56):
That's right.
That's right.
Yes.
So it was interesting.
You know, I have always,always, always loved to write.
I love words.
Um, and it took me a long timeto actually write a book, so I
did it, and it was literallyreleased March 6, 2020.
So the speaking tour obviouslywas canceled, and it was just
this whole thing I've of well,okay, let's let's regroup.

(06:17):
But I enjoyed that processquite a bit um and still
obviously very much love towrite.
And so for me, writing istwofold.
It's cathartic, it sort ofhelps you process things that
you've learned along the way.
But more importantly for me isI like to be the voice,
especially for women, uh youngwomen, that I didn't have
growing up.
So that's really important tome.
And yeah, this new book iscalled Selection Process How to

(06:40):
Avoid a Loser Relationship.
Something I know a lot about.

Brian (06:44):
I just love that title.
And I think that's a reallygood thing.
You know, you have the old umDan Kennedy, I think it was, who
wrote those series on no BS onsales, no BS marketing, no BS,
you know, he had this kind oftheme of no BS leadership, and
he kind of stuck around that onetheme of no BS style around all
these mul uh micro topics.
I think that how to that umselection process is like you

(07:06):
talked about it before westarted recording, could be used
for so many parts of your life,not just relationships, jobs
and bosses and friends andhobbies or whatever, you know.
Yes.
Okay, so I have a question foryou.
Um when you uh when you write,so I I I know not everybody in
the audience is a writer, butyou've now are just about gonna

(07:27):
uh ready to complete your secondbook in really five, six years.
When anybody how did you dothat?
Because for for me as apotential writer who has written
a book but's just sitting inthe in my computer, but it's not
really good, so I don't want torelease it, and I have a hard
time going back to the laptop towrite.
So that can be applied toanybody who has something they

(07:49):
want to do, but they just eitherhaven't started it yet, or
they're waiting, or maybethey've started but they haven't
really been consistent with it.
What was your secret to writingthese two books?
How did you get them completed?
Is there a certain habit you'veyou uh practiced every day or
anything?

Beth (08:05):
Yeah, it's a good question.
And what has been um I guesswas surprising for me for folks
that have looked into this,there are kind of two schools of
thought and two ways primarilyby which writers write.
Um, one is a pantser, like bythe seat of their bands, right?
And one is, you know, someonewho plotters, somebody who maps
it out.

(08:25):
Here's my outline, here's whatthe chapter chapters need to
look like, and so forth.
And I am a very uh strategic,more so left-brained kind of
person, um, certainly creativein the writing aspect, but by
way of life, I am strategic,black and white.
Here's how I plot out my planfor things.
Like I've run 30 marathons.

(08:46):
Here's my marathon training,here's how I plot out my day, my
practices, et cetera.
But I am an absolute pantzerwhen it comes to writing.
So I don't plot, I yeah, Idon't plot out anything.
I as sophomoric as it sounds, Isit down and I just put words
out.
I take out what is in my head,and then it sort of all just
kind of comes together.

(09:06):
Obviously, um I'm a bigHemingway fan too, and Hemingway
said, write drunk and it'ssober.
So um, yeah, so I sit down andI just write, and I mean I'm not
fully drunk when I'm writing,but so it feels that way because
there's no rhyme or reason toit.
I just get it out there andthen I go back and I say, okay,
what am I really trying to say?
Like what are the commonthreads?

(09:27):
What do I see?
Um, and how do I perhapsstructure this?
But I I structure itpost-writing.
I don't do it before because Ifeel like it inhibits me.

Brian (09:36):
Okay.
I think I'm a pantser ineverything.
And I do, and I I have done theprocess a couple of years ago.
I don't know if it was bookwriting or if I was just writing
in my journal.
A couple of times, after havinga few drinks, I've sat down and
wrote.
And when I'm writing, it seemslike the most profound stuff.
You know, I'm like, this isamazing.

(09:56):
I'm gonna make some greatmaterial out of this.
I might publish this.
And then I read the nextmorning going, what the hell was
I thinking here?
You know, but the but then youcan go in there and pick out
some cool stuff.
Um I mean your brain is just alittle more, maybe a little more
relaxed.
Um, I don't know.
But yeah, I probably need to bea little more of a plotter.
Uh like even just like for me,I've been thinking a lot um

(10:17):
while I'm in the woods, is ismaybe I just need to sit, say,
okay, in that first two-hourblock in the morning where I
have my morning routine, I justschedule 15 minutes to sit down
and write, and whatever comesout, comes out.
Just get on the get on there,get uh open up my book for uh
file and just start writing.
You know, what's could you andthen like you said, kind of edit
it later.

(10:37):
But but I won't be drunk atfive in the morning though.
It's not for a while.

Beth (10:42):
Yeah, I I write very quickly too.
I just I get it all out there,I have a general direction about
what I want to say, andobviously I have um many, many
life experiences from which topull.
So I just here's what I'msaying, and then as I write
those themes, then I remember,oh yeah, and and here's why I
feel this way, because I livedthrough X, Y, and Z experience,

(11:04):
and then I write about thatexperience.

Brian (11:05):
Yeah, that's a good way to do it.
I just sometimes feel like Idon't know, there's so much out
there for me that I want towrite about.
And I'm like, I don't I have adifficult time narrowing it
down.
And that's really where mystruggle is.

Beth (11:17):
Uh agreed.
And I often have told people Ihave a hard time landing the
plane because so many things, somany things interest me, and I
can maybe figure out so manythings and I enjoy so many
things.
So how do I decide what it isthat I really want to focus on?
But last year, Brian was uhpretty easy for me to decide
what to write about because Ijust wrote my way through grief.
Um, I went through a divorceand um found out that, you know,

(11:42):
for the decade I was with myex-husband, he had been lying to
me.
So it was he had kind of had adouble life happening.
So that was, you know, therethat there was some there was
some material there to workwith.

Brian (11:53):
Oh, well, that's what I was gonna ask you next is in the
last 12 months, what have beensome of your greatest learnings?

Beth (11:58):
Oh, yeah.

Brian (11:59):
Well because I know it's been a tumultuous one for you.

Beth (12:02):
Yeah, it has been.
And honestly didn't didn't seethat coming.
Um, and so I guess for yourlisteners, um one, I'm not a
quitter.
So, you know, yes, I gotremarried more than once.
And I I believe in theinstitution, my parents have
been married for 53 years.
Um and I think for me, this wasthe most difficult uh

(12:22):
experience to go through becauseI was 40 when we got together
and really had agency over thatchoice.
Where I really two twomarriages that I agreed, you
know, to marry my formerhusbands, I don't feel like I
had agency.
Well, the first I married rightout of college.
And I did that because societytold me and my parents told me,

(12:42):
hey, you graduated in college.
The next thing you do on thischecklist, the next thing in
life that you're quote supposedto do is get married.
So I'm like, okay, I guess thisis what I do, this is what
everybody does.
I didn't have enough um lifeexperience that could say, no,
you know, hold up.
You don't have to do this.
So that's my daughter's dad.
My daughter's 28.
Uh, she lives on the east sideof the state.
And grateful that obviously wehad that time together because

(13:05):
she wouldn't be here had we not.
Um, and then um, about sixmonths after she was born, her
dad moved us seven hours awayfrom family, friends, anything I
knew.
Uh, so I had a new baby, had anew job, I had postpartum and
didn't know it.
I was 23 years old.
And he left us.
He didn't, marriage was notwhat he had thought it would be.

(13:25):
So I found myself in thisunfamiliar territory, both
physically and emotionally.
And that's when I was diagnosedwith leukemia.
And they said, There's no curefor this, you're gonna die.
So I had no idea what to do.
I just envisioned my18-month-old daughter growing up
without me.
I couldn't think clearly.

(13:46):
I was in the state of shock, Ithink, more than anything.
And that is when I gotremarried a month before I had a
bone marrow transplant.
So to say that I uh was notthinking clearly is a gross
understatement.
I just um I couldn't thinkabout anything other than dying.
And somebody kind of came in,swooped in, saved the proverbial

(14:06):
dying damsel in distressbecause I was certainly in that
camp.
I truly wasn't supposed tolive.
Um, and on the other side ofthat transplant, I was the only
person that walked out of thehospital after being in there
for 35 days.
I was the only person thatwalked out alive.
And I had survivor's guilt.
Um, I didn't know that was athing.
I was 25.
I had Catholic guilt because Iwas raised Catholic.
I definitely knew that was athing.

(14:27):
Um, but I thought to myself,boy, I'm not gonna fail at this
marriage because I signed up todo this and God had just saved
me.
So, like I am all in.
And that marriage lasted for 13years until I was 37 and he
left me because this is theroomie, you know, somebody who's
not dying of leukemia, somebodywho likes to do things in the
world, and that's not who hewanted.

(14:48):
So he left me.
So you might imagine I was kindof done with being married, and
I was raising money for theLeukemia Lymphoma Society, and
that's when I met my lasthusband.
And um, what I learned is thatthere are, I don't, I'm not a
fan of labels by any stretch.
In fact, that's what my firstbook was about.

(15:08):
Um, you know, just I think thatlabels are limiting, I think
that assumptions are stupid, Ithink that we are all way more
complex than being defined byagain those constructs.
However, however, I did learnthat narcissists are a thing,
especially co especially covert,you know, like when people who
um I was targeted and I didn'tknow that because I don't view

(15:31):
myself in any particular light,I just live life because that's
who I am.
And I just feel like very muchhe um didn't want me, he wanted
the image of me.
He wanted um to be married tosomebody who looked and showed
up in the world a certain way,and that's what he wanted to
make himself feel better.
And once he kind of rode thoseproverbial coattails for almost

(15:53):
a decade and felt like he shouldbe doing other things in the
world without me, that's that'swhen all those things came to
light.
So he had many things happeningbehind the scenes that I was
unaware about, unaware of.

Brian (16:05):
Well, that's on that sucks.
And I I I think you know, youand I talked about this a little
prior to the recording today.
I think there are a lot of menout there.
I well, I know there are.
There's a shit ton of men outthere who are very intimidated
by women who are overachievers.
I mean, 30 marathons, twobooks, coaching, survive
leukemia.
I mean, you've done so manythings.

(16:25):
And I think a lot of it I thinkit takes an extra incredibly
strong man to be able to beperfectly fine with that, be
supportive of that, to be proudof that, and to wear that my the
woman I love is this person asa badge of honor versus almost a
sign of you know, I I think youcould be to a lot of weak men,

(16:46):
you could be a mirror and areflection back to them of who
they're not and what they'renot.
And I I think that's probablytrue with you.
You know, getting to know youand things like that.
And um, I think that could be,and that's why weak men are the
most dangerous of all men, in myopinion.

Beth (17:02):
Yes, I agree.
I agree.
So I have learned that um Ineed to have more discernment,
even at this age.
And so that's really why Iwrote the book that I did.
I I wanted to remind myself ofthose things so that the next
time I am in a relationship,because again, no quitter, you
know, I I truly believe in love.
I believe in being a loyalpartner, without, of course, all

(17:26):
the labels around that.
Whatever that looks like to bein a relationship that is
fulfilling and is mutually umbeneficial in terms of like, not
not perfect, right?
Because we're all, you know,imperfect humans, but like, but
to have somebody who has yourback who says, Yeah, you know
what, I get your sense of humor.
I am I'm wowed by the way thatyou think and your thing, your

(17:49):
choices that you make, you know,I I believe in that.
And so the book it was a wayfor me to remind myself of my
own non-negotiables, but also tospeak into the lives of young
women and as they go out intothe world and think, okay, what
should I do next?
Am I supposed to be withsomebody?
Because there are a lot ofgirls in college who look around

(18:10):
and they see some of theirfriends, and maybe some of their
friends are in these long-termmonogamous relationships, and
they're like, oh, that's what Ishould be doing.
And my my whole thing iseverybody, every single one of
us knows exactly who we are.
Sure, we change, we mature, wegrow, we have learnings along
the way throughout the course ofour lives.

(18:30):
But like, I've always known whoI am.
I've always known that I am apretty ordinary, yet very loving
human.
I'm very sentimental.
I'm like a walkingcontradiction, which is fine,
but it makes some peopleuncomfortable.
I've always known that aboutme.
And so what's been interestingis that you either sort of um
change who you are andassimilate, you know, you kind

(18:51):
of fall victim of peer pressurebecause you're like, well, I
have to show up a certain way ifthis person's going to like me.
And you do get to a certainpoint in life, you're like, you
know what, screw it if you don'tlike me.
I am not everybody's cup oftea.
Drink something else.
That's fine.
Um, I don't need to be, and nordoes anybody else.
So authenticity, I know it'shas been a buzzword, but it's
the most important thing is tobe exactly who you are and let

(19:14):
people decide if they like youor not.
Otherwise, it's just kind offake.
And I don't do fake, and Idon't think any one of us
should.

Brian (19:20):
I agree.
You know, one of the thingsI've learned, Beth, uh, lately
is I and people have told methis.
And I I've I've had a lot ofrelationships, and good or bad,
and it's you know, I most ofthem are very, very nice women,
and uh some many of them arestill uh we're still friends.
And um I have been told bypeople who enclosed me, I think

(19:41):
you're just afraid of beingalone, Brian.
And I'm like, that's not it.
You know, I just I love love.
You know, I love I love feelinglove, I love giving love.
Um I'm I'm uh really much ahopeless romantic inside.
I have a little tab on my phonewith file on my phone where I
keep loving memes that says inthe title of that f file on my
phone is my true love.
And as I keep those littlememes that are something that
someday I'm gonna send these tothe women I fall in love with

(20:02):
finally.
And but what I've learned inthe last three and a half months
is I've gotten a chance tospend a ton of time alone.
And not even really alone.
I'm alone all day.
I do a lot of alone things.
I mean, I'm in the woods forabout an hour and a half every
day running and thinking, andI'm journaling a lot.
Well, I journal a lot, but Ijournal more, I just do a lot

(20:23):
more difficult things and alone.
And when I started this journeythree and a half months ago, I
thought to myself, I said thisto myself, and I told my best
friend Dave, I said, I lovemyself, but I don't know that I
like myself because I don'treally know that I know myself
that well anymore.
It's it's been kind ofmisconstrued.

(20:44):
Um, and I it was about a weekand a two week, a week and a
half, two weeks ago, I wasjournaling in the morning and I
f it hit me.
I'm actually beginning toreally like myself.
Like I like being alone.
I told my son-in-law the otherday, I said, you know, you you
kind of probably picked up onthe fact that I really like I
like being alone a lot.
He goes, 'Yeah, I see that.
And I don't know that I wouldhave said that a year ago or two

(21:06):
years ago, or ten years ago.
I really like it.
And I think with that learning,as it grows and manifests more
inside of me, I'll be moreprepared when I do find someone
in my life who I can give my allto and accept all of hers to me
because I'll know myself betterand like myself more.
Or I have friends who get adivorce or they or they break up

(21:26):
and they're right away startinga date, boom, boom, boom, right
away, and they're just goingthrough this kind of they're
just plugging holes in theirlives, in their heart heart, so
to speak.
And I'm like, I and I thinkthat was me for a long time.
I really do think it was.
Uh, maybe not recently, but ithas been in my course of my
life.
So Um So let me ask you, so uhyou've gone you've gone through
some shit.
And you know, starting withyour early twenties with your

(21:49):
leukemia and obviously uh havinglost uh uh you know having gone
through three divorces so far,and then last year being a you
know a real learning year foryou.
Uh what do you think, how wouldwhen if I asked you to name one
of your biggest challengesyou've ever faced, what would
which one would that what's thefirst thing that comes to your
mind?
And then how did you getthrough it to become the woman

(22:10):
you are today?

Beth (22:13):
Um b biggest challenge, honestly, for me, has been
parenting.
Um a strong woman.
She's a woman.
She's gonna be 29 years old inFebruary.
Um I and I I think it's beenthe most difficult because I
have a lot of I don't loveguilt, but I have a lot of mom
big mom feelings around, wow, Iwish I would have done things

(22:38):
differently.
I truly wish I wouldn't have umgot put put her through a
situation of growing up in adivorced family.
Now, I understand that that'svery commonplace.
I so and I understand thatthey're I mean, I've been
through it, so I understand it.
Um do I think that that is theworst thing that can happen to
kids?
I don't, but do I think that itleaves a lasting mark?

(23:00):
Absolutely.
And did I have this idealisticvision of you know, a solid
family for her?
Absolutely.
I did.
None of us get married to thinkthat we're gonna get divorced.
I mean, don't, you know, that'snot top of mind on a wedding
day, you know.
So um so that's for me been thehardest um thing to overcome.
It's just how do I remind maybemyself that I did the best I

(23:25):
could with her and then hopethat that is enough?
Because I just I love herunconditionally.
She's um the greatest blessingof my life.
And, you know, I do a lot ofthings I think well in the
world.
And there are times I'm justlike, I don't know that I did
this well.
And that's the one thing Iwanted to get right.
So I overcome it um bycontinuing to hear her.

(23:48):
Um I do a better job now oflistening to her instead of
telling her.
Um, of course, our relationshiphas completely changed because
I am now coach as opposed tolike, you know, um, the mom
who's writing down rules andregulations and trying to like,
you know, keep these teenagerssafe when she was one.
But it's just, it's hard.
It's hard to let your kids go.

(24:08):
Empty nesting has been brutalfor me.
And I would just kind of, I waslike, you know, walk around in
my condo by myself and it wasquiet.
And I like much like you, doenjoy being by myself because
you, it's just it's peaceful andyou can learn and you can be
introspective.
Okay, that's all well and good.
But yet, like, where is she?
Like, where's my kid?
You know, it's like I reallymiss those years, and she

(24:31):
doesn't have kids yet, so Idon't have like grandbabies to
pour into.
So it's just this weird pointin life of, hmm, boy, I that
that's been hard for me to lether go, to let her shine.
But yet that's what we do asparents.
We raise our kids to beindependent and healthy and good
little humans.
And now that I think I'veaccomplished that and she's
doing it, I just want her to behappy.

(24:51):
And it's like I don't talk toher every day.
So it was just a weird vibe.
Everything else for me, I'm I'mmuch more able to get through
things that are hard for mepersonally that only affect me.
But when my people areaffected, that's hard for me
because I just I love verydeeply.

Brian (25:08):
Well, somebody told me on the podcast a couple last year,
I think it was, and I think Iknow who it was, but I don't
remember.
I think anyway, she said,You're only ever as happy as
your saddest child.

Speaker 2 (25:17):
Yeah.

Brian (25:18):
And that really hit me in the sense that and what what I
did is I went back and thought,oh my gosh, the things I did
wrong as a dad.
You know, I was a dad from 19.
I mean, I was a dad every dayfrom 19 until four years ago.
So 54.
You know, because I had mydaughter, she was 16 when my son
was born.
So from 19 till 54, what howmany years is that?
38 years?

(25:38):
No, I don't know.
A long time, anyway, 28, 38years.
I was a dad where I was neededon a consistent basis every day.
Um, and then it just, it's likeyou said, the empty nesting,
it's a bitch.
It was just gone.
It was like the the bottomdropped out of my life.
I had just moved to the upperpeninsula.
I was alone a lot that summer,and my son was in college.
My daughter was, thankfullythey were only an hour away.

(26:00):
But it was about a year or two,maybe two years before I really
got my head out of my ass.
And I was in a dark space.
Because my identity was shot.
Like, who am I?
In I don't know if it was aconversation I had with
somebody, or maybe it wassomething I thought of and said
to somebody, but I realizedthat, yeah, they don't need me
every day for the the minorthings or the consistent things.

(26:22):
They need me less often, butthey when they do, they need me
for bigger life decisions,bigger life questions, bigger
life um opinions.
And I that puts some solace inme.
Like, okay, it's not aday-to-day, like, what are you
gonna wear?
Can I buy this jacket?
It's more of, or what sportshould I play?
Now it's more of, hey, I havethis question about work, or I
have this, um, you know, I'm I'mlooking at putting my resume

(26:44):
out here, or a you know,parenting decisions and things
like that that I'm getting moreof, which it's not as daily
fulfilling, but it's seems likeit's a little bit, it's a higher
level anyway.
I guess that's the way I lookat it.
Yeah, that's a great way.

Beth (26:57):
Yeah, thank you.
That's good.
But yeah, that's been thehardest one for me because you
know, cancer, there's a courseof action, and you do the best
you can do and you show up.
And divorce is like, oh, youknow, you just you have to.
For me, I'm a big believer, andthe only way out of anything is
directly through it.
So boy, I sat every single day,every morning, uh, for a year
alone in my condo after I movedout, and I just processed.

(27:20):
I processed, okay, what wasmine to own?
What was my culpability in thissituation?
What will I never do again?
How now that everything is sortof very clear in the rearview
mirror?
Boy, did I miss that?
Did I miss that?
And you know, you just youprocess and you do what you need
to do.
And for me, it looks like a lotlike praying and journaling and
crying and swearing, of course.

(27:40):
Um, but you know, in general,you feel the emotions and you
give yourself a lot of grace andgo, okay, got it.
Now I'm good.
And one day I just I playedpickleball through the whole
thing, of course, because I'm anavid pickleball player, but um
yeah, life just keeps going on.
It's not going to slow down forany of us.
And we all go through highs andlows, and it makes the highs
feel so much higher when youhave things, backdrops of boy, I

(28:04):
remember when that reallysucked.
But hey, you know what?
Right now things are prettygood, and you just literally
count your blessings every day.
You're like, okay, today's agood day.
I love it.
I'm grateful.
Let's go.

Brian (28:14):
Well, like they say, the past is a place of reflection,
not a place of residence.
And yeah, I love it.
You know, one of the thingsthat when you're raising kids,
um, I heard this maybe a coupleof years ago, and I repeat it to
so many clients who have kidsthat when you're raising
children, every day goes by sodamn quickly.
I'm so so damn slowly, but thenthe years and the decades go by

(28:35):
so quickly.
And that is so true withparenting.
You know, it's like every dayis just difficult, challenged,
you're stressed, you're tired,you're worn out, you're worried,
you're full of fear, anxiety,blah, blah, blah.
Then it's 10 years later, 20years later, 30, 40 years later,
and you're going, oh my God,where did these decades go?
I mean, I look at, you know, Iget I get on Facebook memory or
not Facebook, one drive memoriesevery day on my phone, and I go

(28:58):
through and I'm like, oh mygosh, I forgot when Dawson was
eight and you know, Ashley was32, or not 32, she was, you
know, 20, 24 or whatever.
And um at the time, I'm like,oh my God, I did those days seem
like they were yesterday.
But they were, you know, 13,14, 15 years ago.
Yep, very true.
Well, I'm glad you're goingthrough this.

(29:20):
Uh and I like the fact that yousaid I'm you go through
something.
Because I hear a lot of peoplesay, I'll get over this.
Uh no, you don't get overanything.
You get through something.
And in order to get technicallyover it, you have to go through
it.
Um but I'm glad you're, youknow, you're stronger, and I'm
glad we had this opportunity,and we're we're not even close
to being done yet, so but I meanI'm glad we maybe didn't have a
good audio last year becauseyou seem in a better place.

unknown (29:44):
Okay.

Brian (29:44):
There's a vibe there that wasn't there last year.

Beth (29:47):
Yeah, thank you.
It is very true.
You know, I'm always, for themost part, um a pretty upbeat
person, and so uh that wasanother learning for me.
You asked me some other, youknow, kind of takeaways.
And I have learned thatsometimes I I don't need to
actually just keep being so hardcharging through something.
When something is off and Iknow it's off, I should actually

(30:08):
sit with it and try and say,okay, but is this situation
worth actually going through andgetting through and sort of
like, you know, um sometimesit's it's better for me.
And one of the things I put inmy book, it's like, leave early
and leave often, whether that'sa job, a relationship, a
situation, like there issomething to be said for um

(30:31):
being gritty, you know, becauseI have a lot of resilience and I
have a lot of stick-to-itness.
Like I just keep going, butoften it's to my own detriment.
Because had I had I actuallystopped and said, you know what,
this is not right.
And there's not really, I thinkI used to view loyalty and um

(30:52):
I'm trying to think of maybe adifferent way to say it, but
like I just viewed me beingtough and strong and being able
to stick things out as like,this is the sign of true love.
This is the sign of beingloyal.
This is what a true friend orperson looks like.
So maybe the person I'm withwill will just get it that they
see how hard I'm working or theysee that I'm still here, and

(31:12):
that'll like, you know, makethem love me more.
No, it doesn't.
It really, it really doesn't.
And so the only thing I'mreally doing is kind of wasting
time at that point.
So that was a real learning forme, too.
It's like, yes, I am in a muchbetter place because I'm always
an empty person.
But again, that at times hasbeen, I did myself a disservice
with that kind of gumption.
I should have been like, eh,no, you know what?

(31:35):
It's okay to give up.
And I just don't have thatmentality inherently because I
don't give up.
I'm like, if I'm down whatever,14-1 in a game to 15, I'm
still, I'm still out there.
I'm crushing people.
I'm like, no, this game's notover yet, because no, it's not
over yet.
But there are times inrelationships or again, career
paths, or you know, pick a lifescenario where you're like, no,

(31:55):
you know what?
It is over.
And I don't need to win thisgame because this it doesn't
matter.
Like, what does winning looklike?
It still looks like it's notreally trophy on their side.
It's kind of just more of thesame, which is wrong.
People are, I think we all knowif we are with somebody or
contemplating being withsomebody, that truly isn't right
for us.
And that equals settling.

(32:16):
And I'd much rather be aquitter than a settler.

Brian (32:19):
I agree.
I think I've done that a fewtimes, and I'm sure some of the
women who've dated me havesettled.
I do you ever listen toanything or read anything on
stoicism?
Oh, yeah.
All right.
Yep.
There's a group, uh there's aum not a series, well, it's a
series, I guess, but there'sthree or four podcasts uh um
sorry, not podcast, YouTubechannels that I follow.

(32:39):
One is called the StoicJournal, which is my favorite.
Then there's The Stoic King,and then there's Psycho
Restoration Stoicism.
There were just podcastchannels.
And it's an AI voice, I think,but it's this deep, melodic,
methodical voice that this guyand he just goes through a
lesson every day about 45minutes.
So when I'm rucking every day,that's what I listen to on my
headphones.
And today's was I just pulledit up, it was The Way of the

(33:00):
Stoic.
It's a stoic journal.
It's called Walk Alone, RiseAlone, Win Alone.
And it was about settling inlife for other people, whether
it's a relationship or friendsor job or um, and his the the he
talks or this stoicism talks alot about the beauty of being
alone, the beauty of spendingtime with self and reflection
and and being able to just sitin your own quiet and sit in

(33:21):
your own pain and how much powerthere is to that, and how much
we we strive so badly to avoidit when really that's the only
way we can build.
When I'm done here, I'll um ifI remember, I'll try to
remember, I'll text you a copyof the one I listened to today.
But it's a really good seriesto listen to.
Um every day is a differentlesson on something to do with
stoicism.

Beth (33:40):
I love it.
I'm a big Ryan Holiday fan.

Brian (33:42):
I am too actually.
I just recommended his book twoor three times to or to two or
three different clients lastweek, The Obstacle is the way.
So I pulled my copy out and Ihave it sitting here on my desk.
So this week I'll be goingthrough it.
Because I think I've read it.
I think this would be myseventh time going through that
book.
And then the Daily Stoic isthat daily I love that one too.
Yep.
Agreed.
That's another one people arelike, man, I used to post a lot

(34:03):
of his stuff on social medialike three, four, five years
ago, and I didn't ever givecredit.
I didn't know you're supposedto give credit to the author.
Now I do.
Um but people say, Where's thisfrom?
What book is this?
And I I don't know how manydozens of people, if not a
hundred people, have asked methat on on social media, and I'd
say, it's the Daily Stoic byRyan Holliday.
You know, so now I just credityou know, credit Daily Stoic
Ryan Holiday.

(34:23):
So but that's a really powerfulbook.
Both of those are justfantastic.

Speaker 2 (34:28):
Yep.

Brian (34:29):
Um What's the win for you?
Right now you've got you'rekind of reblossoming, I would
say.
You're kind of that Phoenixrising out of the out of the
ashes, and I hate to use thatbecause it's so cliche, but
that's kind of what I see.
And I picture when I think ofyou, um again, you're rising out
of the ashes again to a betterform of yourself.
What's the win for you rightnow at your at this point in

(34:49):
your journey?

Beth (34:52):
Um I think contentment.
Um I am I think I'm slowingdown.
Now, if you ask people aroundme, they would not maybe call it
that, but I feel like I am um Ihave more peace in slowing down
a little bit.
And what that looks like for meis I don't get up at four

(35:14):
o'clock in the morning and knockout 15 miles anymore.
I wake up, I have a slowerpace, I grab coffee and go
outside, I look at the thestars, right?
I sit, I sit out, I am, I ammore centered, I'm more in the
moment.
And that that took work for meto get there.
And it's a really big winbecause I feel like every single

(35:37):
day I just wake up and I have asense of this is who I am.
I am exactly where I'm supposedto be.
I don't have this sense of um aneed to perform or to achieve,
or where's my to-do list?
I just am like living life in away that feels very freeing for

(35:57):
me at the moment, which is ahuge win.
I love that so much.

Brian (36:00):
I think it's fantastic.
Do you find that you are stillable to accomplish the things
that you set off to accomplish?

Beth (36:07):
Yes.
And and and um sort ofshockingly, or perhaps not for
those of us who have gotten tothis point more quickly than I
have, uh, it's it's easier forme to accomplish those things.
When I was hard on myself, whenI was so rigid in my schedules,
and yes, I could get a lot ofthings done, but I wasn't
experiencing any kind of joy.
I was just getting it done.
And even on as an example, Iwas telling somebody recently,

(36:30):
my mentality is such thatbecause I am uh someone who
always likes to uh grow andtransform and learn and do
better the next time, I would Iwould train and train and train
for a marathon.
I run Boston twice.
And every time it had to be aPR, a personal record, a faster
time.
And so the even the very firsttime I ran and finished, which
was a huge accomplishment, I wasthe type of person that would

(36:53):
be like, oh man, I missed thatby three minutes.
That sucks.
And they're like, What are youtalking about?
Why don't you enjoy what youjust did?
And I thought, yeah, but youdon't know what I trained for.
I missed it.
I missed the mark.
And for me, what's been freeingis I have a whole lot less
marks that I have self-imposedon myself to hit.

Brian (37:10):
I love it.
I I think that's what I findwith most people.
And it's so it's I I wish Iwould have learned this in my
30s.
Um, because I hear it from somany people like yourself,
people who are accomplished andsuccessful and you know,
overachievers overall in life,that when they do begin to
really reflect on their pacingin life and on their uh, you

(37:31):
know, kind of their more futureforward uh momentum is when they
stop and do recenterthemselves, refocus on the
present, they tend to have a lotmore peace and contentment and
happiness.
But they also say the samething.
I get just as much done, if notmore.
I put out more higher qualitywork, I have higher quality
relationships.
And despite the fact thatthey've slowed down, they're

(37:53):
actually moving forward at amore advantageous and
advantageous pace, and they'rejust doing better work.

Beth (38:00):
Agreed.
Yep.
It's like it's a big win forme.
Because honestly, had you askedme this even 10 years ago, if I
thought I would be slowing downor really content, I would just
have said no.
And gratefully, it's untrue.
It's it's where I find myselftoday.
And it is, it's all the lifelessons along the way that we
all have that really kind of getyou to the point of the

(38:21):
realization of okay, like all ofa sudden you're like, well,
this makes sense now.
Now it all adds up.
Someday things will all makesense.
And I'm in I'm living in thosedays where things make sense to
me.

Brian (38:30):
I love it.
Man, that's awesome.
You deserve it.

Beth (38:32):
Thank you.

Brian (38:33):
Hey, you know what I just realized?
I just sent you a stoicismthing a couple of weeks ago.

unknown (38:36):
Did you?

Brian (38:37):
October 5th.
That's how much you payattention.
I just sent you another one.
I noticed I sent you one on the5th of October.
It was one of those channels Ilistened to.
Um, um, this was Force Yourselfto Improve Every Day.
I just said I just sent a newone.
So Thank you.

Speaker 2 (38:53):
Yeah.

Brian (38:53):
All right.
This is my favorite question,actually.
And I did I purposely didn't goback on the notes we took a
year ago when we did our podcastbecause I didn't really want to
be, I wanted to start freshagain.
So I don't even know what youranswer was back to any of these.
But the question is, is youknow, if we could go back and
you pick a time of your life,Beth, whatever age, and we were
to jump on a time machine, shootback there, and you were to sit

(39:15):
down on a park bench and talkto your younger Beth Fisher,
what would you say?

Beth (39:22):
Yeah, I do like that question too.
And I would say, tell him no.
And that one, and that one, andthat one.
No, um, I I would I would sayyou already know the answer.
Listen to yourself.
Yeah, I would I would encouragemy younger self to trust

(39:45):
herself and to believe that sheis smart and capable and has the
answers already deep withinher, as opposed to looking
externally for validation andfor other people to answer what
again I already knew to be true.

Brian (40:00):
See, and I think so many people need to hear that.
I was talking to a gentleman,Art Del Lorenzo, last week.
He's been on my podcast twice.
Art's uh just literally rightnow retiring at 85 years old.
Goes to the ocean.
Uh he's got a home in Martha'sVineyard, so he swims every day
in the ocean for about 45minutes.
The guy is just an amazingspecimen of a human, kind man.

(40:23):
And he talked a lot last weekon the show about trusting your
instincts, trusting your gut.
And how he gave some examplesof how in his professional life
he was able to do that when hewas being advanced and promoted
in the corporate world to, youknow, high-level positions.
And sometimes he just had tosay no.
It just the gut, everythinglooked good, the money, the

(40:44):
promotion, the respect, thecredibility, but it just
something in his gut said no.
And I know that's an area thatI I told him I said I need to
work on that a lot more, um, isis just trusting how I feel
inside when I'm about to make adecision, either personally or
professionally, because I've hadsome bad feelings at times, but
you know, you kind of outweighit and you kind of say, well,

(41:06):
this is a this there's a lot ofbenefits.
You kind of put it on a on apositive or negative advantages,
disadvantages, or benefits tothe disadvantages of chalkboard
kind of, and you look at okay,which one outweighs the other?
And it doesn't matter how manyadvantages there are to the
disadvantages.
If your gut says no, it's no.

Beth (41:23):
That's right.

Brian (41:24):
That is right.
You know, here's a question Iand you're into fitness and
everything.
And I asked Art this last week,and he didn't really have an
answer because he wasn't sure.
Now, a lot of the research I'mseeing now talking about gut
health, you know, taking care ofour literal our physical
stomachs and our guts.
And, you know, like, you know,kombucha and you know, different

(41:46):
stuff we can use to help ourgut, is it biomes binomes or
biomes, I forget.
Do you think if a person has amessed up, physically a messed
up stomach, they're eating abunch of processed shit, they're
not, they're just not takingcare of their gut.
I wonder if that has a negativeimpact on your ability to trust
your gut.
Because your gut, even thoughthey that's not just a saying,

(42:08):
there's a lot that comes fromour stomach and our
decision-making process.
I wonder if there's a bet atruth to that.

Beth (42:13):
Yeah, I think there could be.
But one thing I have learned isthat the mind-body connection
is huge.
Like I was telling somebodythis recently that um my body
historically, like as in all 52years of my life, has known when
something was off, even if myhead didn't want to accept it or

(42:33):
couldn't quite get there yet.
My body just knew.
Um, I have run races where Iwas so distraught emotionally, I
couldn't finish.
My body was in shape.
I had done the training, butemotionally I was such a wreck
that I couldn't, I couldn'tcontinue.
My body just could not take itanymore.
And there have been times whenI have been with the wrong

(42:54):
person and I couldn't sleep.
I couldn't, I look back now inretrospect.
I didn't sleep well for 10years.
And it was very easy to say, ohyeah, that's because you're a
menopause.
Maybe.
But but I'm telling you, Ithink I still am a menopause,
and boy, I sleep like a freakingchamp right now.
Because that there isn't, thereisn't this like danger.

(43:14):
Something is really wrong.
Our bodies protect us.
And so to your point, yeah, ourguts are meant to protect us.
And so when we don't listen toit or we try to overthink a
situation or talk ourselves intoa relationship or talk
ourselves out of a situation,it's like just listen to our
bodies.
And being alone is key to thatbecause you know, society is so

(43:36):
busy, our lives are sofast-paced that of course we
just, you know, we shove foodinto our mouths when it's just
convenient or whatever.
And I am so much, I've alwaysbeen intentional about it.
Because for me, yes, food is anenjoyable thing to do,
especially if you're having, youknow, a nice moment with
somebody that you are connectingwith and you're having great
conversation and you havefriends, whatever that looks
like, that that's an experience.

(43:57):
But in the in the main, food isfuel.
And so I I don't want to fuelmy body in a bad way.
And this, of course, has to dowith my um probably my leukemia
experience, which I'm convincedwas environmental.
I was a four-season athlete andI think it was from a pretty
contaminated water source whereI grew up.
Um, yeah, it was like an AaronBrockovich story.

(44:20):
But all that to say our bodiesknow.
And so our guts are alwaystelling us something.
And I think when people havestress, I think when they have
IBS, I think when they havemigraines, when they're not
sleeping well, that meanssomething is out of line.

Brian (44:37):
Yeah.

Beth (44:38):
No question.

Brian (44:39):
Well, that's a thing I've learned um in the last few
three months.
You know, I've always been agood eater.
Like I've always been a healthyeater.
I've always exercised andworked out, but it's been more
like I don't have a uh I have avery d unadvanced, I don't know
if that's the word.
Anyway, I don't have a veryadvanced palate system.
So I really can't differentiatehigh-quality foods from just

(45:03):
good food.
Like you give me a goodhamburger, it and you give me a
great hamburger, eh, I probablycan't tell the difference.
I really can't.
So I'm at an advantage where Ican survive off of meat, fish,
some quinoa, a little bit ofrice, fruit, and a lot of
protein.
Like I don't need a lot ofstuff.
Um and so I'm able to really dobetter at taking care of my

(45:26):
stomach than others.
And I've forced that the lastthree months.
I've been really moniacelyfocused on that, plus a lot more
exercise.
And I find, for me anyway, thatin alcohol, I haven't had a
beer in 32 days, I think.
31, 32 days?
I don't even miss it.
Um, I've found I'm muchclearer.
I'm much more, I'm well, I Ilike myself more, so I trust

(45:48):
myself more.
I feel just physically,emotionally, mentally,
spiritually at a higher levelthan I've ever been in my life.
And and that's true.
Uh and um I think a lot of itis the fact that you know what
you do with your body.
It starts with the mo it startswith motion, it starts with
what you put in and the outputyou put, you know, how you treat
your body.
And uh, a lot of us, I've beentalking a lot to clients about

(46:11):
getting a theme.
Every year I have my clientsselect a theme or a mantra for
the next year.
If we always start thatsomewhere in October, okay, I
want you to start thinking aboutwhat are you gonna, what's your
guiding light next year?
It's not a goal, it's not ait's just a a theme that you put
out there and you I have peoplebuild come uh print up
stickers.
Like mine last year was um ortwo years ago was Live Clean,
get dirty, which was it's a I'mlooking at it because it's my uh

(46:33):
the sticker on my laptop rightnow.

Beth (46:35):
I like it.

Brian (46:35):
Last year was expand and serve.
This year I've been thinking alot about this idea of um the
goose and the golden egg, youknow, the the Ace fable where
this farmer has this goose wholays these golden eggs and he
loves it, you know, get thesegolden eggs and he's he's kind
of wasting them.
So he gets greedy and he cutsthe head off and disembowels the
goose to go in there and getthe rest of the golden eggs, and
of course, there is no goldeneggs because the goose has to

(46:58):
produce them.
And I've been thinking aboutthat a lot as far as how that
applies to our lives.
And I think we're always uh,you know, you have to I think
you have to determine what areyour golden eggs.
So what I learned over the lastfew weeks, just thinking about
this, typically when I'm in thewoods running, is I the ideas
come up with me and thoughts,and it and I always have a
little pad of paper and a pen inmy pocket, so I write it down.

(47:18):
I looked at what are the goldeneggs I've been searching for
all of my life?
I've been chasing, I've been,you know, and it's been love,
money, respect, and success aremy golden eggs.
And then I thought, but howmuch of my 58 years have I
turned around and said, fuckthose things.
I'm not gonna focus on those.

(47:38):
I'm gonna focus on building thegolden, on the goose that can
that builds or that that uhproduces these golden eggs.
And that mind shift has beenalmost a point of selfishness
where I'm I'm more guarded withobviously what I do with my
body, more guarded with my myspirituality, my praying, my
journaling, my gratitude, um,who I associate with and spend

(47:59):
time with.
And what I find is that if Ican focus on, if anyone, not
just me, I'm just saying this iswhat my thought is for my
mantra next year, I'm still doesbut if anybody can say, don't
worry about the outcomes.
Because if you chase things toomuch, they become very fast and
they become very fleeting, andyou almost never catch them.
But if you focus on themachine, in this case the goose,

(48:21):
that produces these outcomes,and you maniacally focus on
development of that, whatever itis, your mind, your body, your
soul, your emotional um uh, youknow, strength, whatever it is,
you're eventually probably goingto get those golden eggs that
you're searching for.
Yeah, exactly.
And it just people don't do it.
It's like, you know, we we welove the ATM machine, but you
know, you gotta you gotta fillit up with cash to get cash out,

(48:43):
you know.
And we are nothing but just agiant ATM machine with a little
with some brain and somefeelings.
And whatever your m whateveryour output is, is is you know,
money, fame, whatever you'relooking for in life.
You gotta you gotta make sureyou're filling it.

Beth (48:56):
Yep.

Brian (48:57):
It sounds like you've been doing a lot lately.

Beth (48:59):
It's very true.
I have been.

Brian (49:01):
Well, okay, so the book is your second book, is it done
now, or you still have more tobefore it gets published on the
on uh St.
Pat or Valentine's Day?
Do you have more to do?

Beth (49:10):
It's no, no, I don't personally.
It's done.
It is um it's gone through theediting process.
Right now, the interior designis happening, and that should be
completed soon.
So no, just getting ready to goto print, and I'm excited and
do a little marketing for it andlooking forward to it.
Yeah.
Selection tour.

Brian (49:26):
I love the name.
I really do.
I think that's a whole newtheme of books that you put out.
You we talked about this alittle bit.
I think you have a gold minehere as far as how the impact
you can make on people.
Is it is it is the bookdesigned more for women, or is
it kind of men, could men get alot out of it too?
I mean, sometimes women writingfrom a woman's perspective when
you're going through somethingemotional or a man's perspective

(49:47):
when they're going throughsomething emotional tend to be
more gender-focused.

Beth (49:51):
Yeah, well, for sure, you know, my target audience uh is
female.
Um, however, that said, I mean,how many, you know, uh men,
yourself included, right, havedaughters, have granddaughters,
have friends that they workwith.
Um, so, or the thing is, youjust, you know, you insert, you
know, different gender, but theprinciples absolutely uh are

(50:12):
upheld.
And it's basically it's justusing common sense, like as an
example, one of the things Italk about, which I didn't
understand, was uh to concernyourself more in the selection
process with being interestedrather than being interesting.
And, you know, I would alwaysgo out or spend time with
people.
And I never thought to askmyself, am I even interested in

(50:35):
this man and this person sittingacross like, or or am I just so
concerned with making sure thatI'm being interesting to them?
It's like, and I think from afemale perspective, especially
females of you know, Gen Xers,which I am, it's like we had
were taught so much.
It was ingrained in us just tomake sure that everybody else
around us feels happy and good,like be a good girl.

(50:56):
Well, you know, I'm not reallya good girl.
I'm just really not.
I'm I'm a kind and lovingperson, but you know, good is
subjective.
So it's like, it's like I wasalways just conditioned to make
sure that the people who werearound me felt comfortable.
And by my inherent makeup, Ioften make people feel
uncomfortable.
Not on purpose, notunintentional or not and

(51:18):
intentionally.
It's this unintentional way ofthe way that I show up in the
world sometimes makes peoplefeel a certain way.
And I used to have to, I feltlike I should apologize for
that.
So I was a person who wouldalways worry about hmm, am I
being interesting enough tothem?
Am I making them feelcomfortable?
Instead of going, do I evenlike this person?
Am I interested in what thehell they're saying?

(51:40):
Because usually the answer wasno.
But yet I pretended.
I pretended.
Oh, yeah, tell me more.
I didn't get no, I didn'treally want to hear more.
I wanted to leave.
But I stayed because that'swhat good girls do.

Brian (51:50):
That's interesting.

Beth (51:51):
Oh, yeah.

Speaker 2 (51:53):
Yeah.

Brian (51:54):
Huh.

Speaker 2 (51:55):
It's the whole thing.

Brian (51:56):
Yeah.
You know, I wonder if that ismore, if women do that, tend to
do that more.
I think I think a lot of men,thankfully, not the men I
associate with, but uh, there'sa lot of men out there who when
they go on a date or wherethey're with somebody, they have
to make sure that that woman orwhoever is around them realize
that they are something prettydamn fucking special.

Beth (52:14):
That's what I'm saying.
I hate that.
Yeah.
I hate that.

Brian (52:19):
You know, one of the things that um I've been working
on, uh, the concept of alphaversus sigma.
Have you heard of the sigmapersonality trait?

Beth (52:26):
I have not.

Brian (52:27):
This is so powerful.
Um, I I don't even know if ifthe psychology has actually
inserted it as one, but a friendof mine, um uh one of my best
actually probably one of my bestfriends anyway, out of Texas.
We were talking maybe four orfive months ago and on a Zoom
call, um, and he said, You're aSigma.
I'm like, I don't, oh, okay,what is that?

(52:48):
So he described to me, so thenI've done a lot of research.
So you know I have you have inperson area in styles or in
hierarchy, I guess you haveomegas, betas, alphas, you know,
and um i i you know, the littlechart alphas are supposedly the
top dogs in the pack.
Well, in reality, they're not.
Alphas are not that strongbecause alphas require an

(53:10):
audience.
Alphas require someone to bewho they are, they require other
people for them to be who theyare.
So they're not.
There's another group calledSigma.
So if you look at a wolf pack,an alpha male, alpha female
tight tend to run the wolf pack.
Without the wolf pack, they'renothing.
They are completely lost.
But there's a second branch ofum high achievers that are

(53:31):
called Sigmas.
And Sigmas are people who areiconoclastic, they are more um
independent.
They would rather not run thewolf pack, they'd rather go off
and do their own thing the waythey like to do it.
And but they when necessary,they can come back and run the
wolf pack, probably as well, ifnot better, than the alpha, male
and female.

(53:51):
And they're often used forcounsel for by the alpha, female
and male.
Um, but they are just more, I'mgonna do things my way.
I go on my own accord.
Um, that type of personality isSigma.
And I think that's what I I seein you is more of a and I I I
tend to be around more Sigmapeople.
I looked at what once I learnedthis, I looked through all my

(54:13):
clients of the last five years,who are my favorite clients.
And I when I die, some go,that's a Sigma person.
That's a person who thinks outof the box.
You know, they don't have tohave an audience for them to be
feel fulfilled.
They can go off and dosomething completely on their
own, but they can come back andkind of entertain the audience
and be part of it they need to,or be part of the group and
pack.
And I think that's kind of whatyou are.

Speaker 2 (54:35):
You're sigma.

Brian (54:36):
Google that it's fascinating when you research it
more.
It's like you start to, I tooka few tests and I'm like, uh it
was pretty obvious.
It a lot of people who havetheir own businesses, start
their own businesses, are moreSigma.
Um, and that's just onepotential sign, but there's a
lot of signs out there.

Beth (54:50):
So yeah, yeah, I will look into it.
That's kind of cool.
I like that thought process.

Brian (54:54):
What's next for you?

Beth (54:56):
Uh, speaking, a lot more speaking engagements based on
the book.
Um, I you know, I really wantto go upstream.
I would love to speak atcolleges and universities, uh,
women's groups, moms anddaughters, whatever.
But I really, really enjoypublic speaking.
I do it frequently.
I talk a lot about on the topicof failing forward.
So, what's next is that on thespeaking circuit, uh, continuing

(55:19):
to do some leadershipfacilitation, leadership
development facilitation inorganizations that fuels me as
well.
I love, as I mentioned earlier,business and change management
and hitting revenue goals andjust, you know, kind of
transformational coaching, uh,whether within organizations
professionally or personallywithin people's lives.
I'm here to help and I want toget it done.
And I also want to destroypeople on the pickleball court,

(55:41):
Brian.

Brian (55:41):
I've never played pickleball, but everybody asked
me, why don't you playpickleball?
I'm like, I don't know.
I hooked.
That's it.
It hurt everybody who does itloves it.

Beth (55:49):
Yeah, yeah.
It really fills my competitiveum streak.
It I love it.
I play probably twice a day.
In fact, I'm gonna go play herea little bit.

Brian (55:56):
Really?
Here's okay.
Here are my thoughts.
The thing I like to do morethan anything other than reading
is I love to ruck.
I love to put my 20-some poundson my back and I do it too
often.
I I had it took yesterday offbecause I think I'd done 14 or
15 days with no breaks, and Ilike to go up the trails and I
like to run hills.
Now I got a kind of my my leftcap has bothered me yesterday,

(56:18):
my right knee, so I iced it andit took the day off.
Um, but today I was back outthere.
I had a two-hour break beforeour coaching session, so I ran
out there and did, I only didlike three and a half miles, but
um, I love it so much.
It fills me emotionally,spiritually, mentally,
physically that I'm so afraid oftrying something new that might
mess my knees or my ankles up.

Beth (56:37):
Oh, I see.
Yeah, well, that makes sense.

Brian (56:39):
And that's it.
Because people are like, hey,we you know, I used to ski a
long, long time ago.
I haven't skied in 30 years.
Um, and like, we should ski,you know, live in Marquette now.
There's a nice heel hill.
I'm like, nope, not gonna doit.
I'm not doing, I'm not gonnagolf.
I never golfed.
I've golfed like maybe 12 timesin my life.
I said, I'm not gonna pick upgolf, might throw my back out.
And I like to lift weights andI like to um ruck, which is

(56:59):
already enough on my shoulders,um, as it is.
So that's kind of my excuse.
But maybe if I got a got apartner and play with some
people who are actually justlike me or a little like not so
competitive, maybe I'd I knowI'd probably like it.
Because I heard it's a damngood workout.

Beth (57:14):
It it is, and I I like to play a lot of singles as well,
which is an even better workout.
So yeah, I'm I enjoy it, butthat's really what's next for me
is more of that and spendingtime with good people and really
just every day, you know,showing up every day and trying
to make a difference and justenjoying it and and just I I
mean, I really I don't reallyhave any sort of secrets about

(57:36):
it.
I just every single day want toget up and be exactly who I was
created to be and live in everysingle moment and just kind of
let things take the form thatthey're gonna take and enjoy it
as it happens.
Do you like yourself?
Oh, better now than I everhave.

Brian (57:50):
That's the answer I wanted to hear.
I got a question for youthough.
I want to ask this question.
What is one hard thing you'vedone so far today?

Beth (58:00):
I played pickleball this morning and I played against
against my mixed doublespartner, and he and I played
pretty well together, but wewere split on the court, and
it's always very hard to beathim, but um, I got a couple by
him today, so that was prettyhard.

Brian (58:15):
Perfect.
I think that's the bestquestion I could ask anybody.
And I thought about thatliterally today while I was
rocking.
I thought, I don't know whereit came from.
Like I was thinking about thehard thing.
What hard things have I donetoday, bro?
That's what I started with methinking, no one's a cold shower
and this and that.
And then I thought, that's agood question to start almost
every coaching session with.
What's one hard thing you'vedone so far today?

Beth (58:34):
Yeah, yeah.
It was fun.
It was hard and fun and wellworth it.
It's worth all the smiles, it'sworth all the competitive, you
know, uh razzing that goes on onthe courts.
And so, yeah, it's it's nevereasy to beat him, but I like
when I do.

Brian (58:48):
I'm happy for you.
Okay, one last question,because this is the kind of the
net question, Beth.
Is there any question that Ididn't ask that I should have,
or is there any final messageyou want to leave with that one
audience member out there who'sriveted to the conversation?

Beth (59:02):
Yeah, I I think maybe a questionslash also takeaway for
me, one thing to leave peoplewith is the premise of the book.
Like when when people readselection process, what do I
hope that they will walk awaywith?
And what I hope they get out ofthat is to really contemplate
and understand the importance ofselecting the right partner in

(59:24):
life.
Because to me, I don't thinkthere's any more important
decision.
And I think that, you know, wealways hear the things that
people that show me the peoplethat you spend your time with,
and I'll show you what the nextfive years of your life is going
to look like.
Well, what about the next 30years of your life, right?
What about the next, howeverlong?
But to make a decision withoutthat discernment process,

(59:47):
without a true selectingprocess, it's a fool's errand.
And it will end up in divorceor it will end up in misery.
It will end up in you notliking yourself or having to
dumb yourself down or changeyour goals.
And that's that's just notworth it.
So I hope what people walk awaywith is the um the validation

(01:00:07):
that they have been maybelooking for.
And certainly, you know,somebody out there who says, it
is okay to think about yourself.
Doesn't matter that society hastold you you have to think
about others first.
And if not, you're selfish, Idisagree.
Think about yourself.
Think about the person withwhom you're choosing to
potentially spend your life andchoose wisely.

Brian (01:00:29):
I can't imagine a better last answer or a last statement.

Beth (01:00:33):
You're awesome.
Thanks for the question.
I love spending time with you.
Thanks for having me back onyour show.

Brian (01:00:37):
Hey, well I'm going to be in Grand Rapids.
I'm gonna I'll text you beforeI go let's grab coffee.
Sounds good.
Thanks, Brian.
Thank you, my friend.
Okay.
Talk to you later.
Bye bye.
Ladies and gentlemen that wasBeth Fisher.
Um I just I I I can't speakenough for her.
She's an amazing woman veryinspirational, very
transformational.
That was the the word I gotwhen I was talking to her today

(01:00:59):
was transformational.
She has done so many things totransform her lives, the lives
of others and even talking toher, I felt transformed.
I hope you all felt the sameplease click on go on Amazon,
look for remorseless by BethFisher.
Her new book will be coming outuh um uh Valentine's Day of
2026 called The SelectionProcess How to Avoid a Loser
Relationship I think that'sgonna be an eye catcher.

(01:01:20):
Um anyway thank you all fortuning in.
We'll talk next week same timesame place.
In the meantime please get outthere and strive to give and be
your best show love and respectfor others and live with
intention and also click thelink to or subscribe to this
podcast, whatever your platformis, uh rate review us, throw a
little like down there andplease share this episode with
three people.

(01:01:40):
I appreciate you all.
Until next time