Shannon Klug: Don't Just Leave Your Legacy—Live It!

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What happens when what brought you success becomes the very thing holding you back? Shannon Klug, founder of BLUMARK Financial and 35-year veteran of the financial industry, reveals the counterintuitive secret to reaching your next level of achievement.

From his beginnings as a baseball-obsessed kid in blue-collar Detroit to building a thriving financial advisory firm serving clients across 46 states, Klug's journey reveals powerful lessons about discipline, adaptation, and intentional living. The conversation takes a surprisingly emotional turn when Shannon shares how his father's battle with cancer created an unexpected opportunity for connection they'd never had before. "I lost my father physically, but I gained my father emotionally," he reveals in one of the podcast's most poignant moments.

At the heart of this episode is a philosophy Klug developed over decades of success: "Do not spend your entire life hoping to leave a legacy, simply live one." This distinction between planning for future impact versus intentional daily living challenges listeners to reconsider how they approach both their careers and personal relationships.

Whether you're building a business, leading a team, or simply trying to live with greater purpose, Klug's insights about letting go of comfortable patterns, embracing new approaches, and being mindful of your impact on others provide a blueprint for meaningful growth. Listen now and discover why sometimes the path forward requires leaving behind what got you here.

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Episode Transcript

Intro (00:00):
Hello and welcome to the Bamboo Lab Podcast with your
host, peak Performance Coach,brian Bosley.
Are you stuck on the hamsterwheel of life, spinning and
spinning but not really movingforward?
Are you ready to jump off andsoar?
Are you finally ready to sculptyour life?
If so, you've landed in theright place.

(00:21):
This podcast is created andbroadcast just for you, all of
you strivers, thrivers andsurvivors out there.
If you'd like to learn moreabout Brian and the Bamboo Lab,
feel free to reach out toexplore your true peak level at
wwwbamboolab3.com.

Brian (00:42):
Welcome everyone to the Bamboo Lab podcast.
As always, I'm your host, brianBosley.
Thirty-one years ago I was inTroy, michigan, in an office for
American Express FinancialAdvisors and I had zero
management experience and thepowers to be had asked me hey,

(01:04):
can you start doing this thingcalled being a training manager?
I'm like, yeah, sure.
And there were some newerpeople coming in.
There was one guy that came inthat stood above everybody else
and I was so proud to be able tobe the person who kind of
nudged him at the beginningstages of his career, at least

(01:25):
as a financial advisor, and Ibrought him on the show.
Today we have a gentleman whois, quite frankly, one of the
most experienced professionalmen I've ever had the
opportunity to work with, workalongside and call my friend
Shannon Klug.
Welcome to the Bamboo LabPodcast, brother.

Shannon (01:43):
Thanks, brian, so happy to be here.

Brian (01:46):
We have a long history, man.

Shannon (01:49):
We sure do.

Brian (01:51):
Folks, we were just talking prior to the show about
some experiences that we hadback in those.
Please share with the BambooPack a little bit about yourself
, where you're from, a littlebit about your family and really
who or what inspired yougrowing up to become the man you
are today.

Shannon (02:12):
Absolutely.
Thanks for the question.
So I grew up a blue-collar kid,right outside Detroit, michigan
, so St Clair Shores is myhometown, like any small
hometown, as you could imagine.
Dad worked in the automobileindustry and really from a young
age understood what hard workreally meant.

(02:35):
Ultimately I would put him upthere as one of my best mentors
from a career perspective.
And it wasn't like he said, godo this or go do that, you know,
it was really just lead byexample and um so um.
I chased a baseball dream for alot of my life.

(02:55):
I played uh uh college ball andum, ultimately, when that ended
, I had to figure out what I wasgoing to do.
Math always made sense to meand from that generation you
know, wall Street was one ofthose movies everybody watched,
everybody looked up to and Iultimately decided to be an

(03:15):
accounting major of all things,fortunate enough to land a
really good accounting job outof university.
Land a really good accountingjob out of university and
ultimately, after about four orfive years, made the leap into
financial advising.
So now I've been 35 yearsgiving financial coaching,

(03:36):
financial literacy, you know,however you want to look at it,
but started out as a tax andaccounting guy and ultimately
was able to parlay that into,you know, being a financial
advisor.
So here I am, 35 years later.

Brian (03:48):
It's hard to imagine yeah , I remember I forgot about your
baseball background.
I had forgotten all about you.
You wanting to be a baseballhero, star.

Shannon (03:58):
It was my only passion, I mean growing up.
It's funny now I look back onthings.
Brian and I had this complex atone time in my life where
baseball was the only thing Iknew how to do, and it's because
I had committed so much to it.
I was fortunate enough to berecruited in high school to play
for a private school.
That led to the opportunity togo to the University of Kentucky

(04:21):
to play baseball.
And then you know there's along story of what happened from
there.
But you know, early in my lifethat's all I wanted to do.
I just wanted to, you knowagain, chase that baseball dream
and maybe be in the showsomeday.

Brian (04:36):
Who's your team right now ?
Are you a Tigers fan?

Shannon (04:39):
It's hard not to be a Tigers fan right now.
It really is.
But you know, growing up in the70s you know the big red
machine from Cincinnati andobviously the Oakland A's always
did battle and I would say tothis day I still deep down
inside those are two teams thatreally resonate with me.
I would also say, withCincinnati, my mom and her
family are from eastern Kentuckyand because they don't really

(05:02):
have pro sports teams in thatarea, you know a lot of them.
You know the Cincinnati Big RedMachine is who all my aunts and
uncles followed and I would sayI'm still a Reds fan.

Brian (05:13):
Okay, so a Pete Rose fan.

Shannon (05:15):
Oh, big Pete Rose fan, I mean, obviously as his life
evolved.
You know there was controversyand so forth, but I would say,
if I modeled my game afteranyone, it was Charlie Hustle.
I mean.
I was the guy practicingheadfirst slides in my basement
my mom still laughs about.
I had rug burns on my innerarms from diving all the time.

(05:37):
But yeah, he was my.
If I had a baseball idol,Charlie Hustle would have been
him.

Brian (05:43):
I don't know.
I don't know a lot aboutbaseball history.
I don't even watch a baseballidol.
Charlie Hustle would have beenhim.
I don't know.
I don't know a lot aboutbaseball history.
I don't even watch a baseballgame all year.
But I follow the Tigers.
Every couple of days I checktheir record, I see what they're
playing and sometimes in themiddle of the summer, like on a
Saturday, if it's raining,wherever I'm at, I'll turn the
game on and I'll just take alittle nap, listen to it.
It's so peaceful to listen tobaseball when I'm trying to just
rest, but I don't really watchgames.

Shannon (06:05):
Yeah, you know.
For me what I miss about it,brian, is it's such a cerebral
game and a lot of people don'trealize that when they're
watching it.
But you know, no matter whathappens, every pitch, every you
know hit, there's an assignmentthat everybody on the field you
know has to move towards, andnot that other sports don't have
that as well.

Brian (06:25):
but I would say most people that deeply understand
the game understand that it'sextremely cerebral so the what
you learned in baseball, thatpassion that you know practicing
in the basement, how did thatcarry over to you, do you think,
to your professional world?
Because that's exactly who theguy I remember back in troy,
michigan.
I mean you weren't practicingsliders in the hallway, but you

(06:45):
were definitely doing thingsthat other people didn't want to
do, didn't have the balls to do.

Shannon (06:51):
Well, well, thank you.
You know.
To me, first of all, work ethic, I mean one of the things about
athletes and sports you had tobe there at a certain time for
practice.
You know a lot of times afterpractice then, especially the
college level, you're hittingthe weight room or, you know,
sometimes it was watching film,you know, depending on what
level you were at.
But you know, the closest thingI can relate that to, I've

(07:15):
never been in the military.
It's probably the one thing inmy life I didn't do that.
I wish I would have.
But that structure and thatorganization and that fed to who
I was as a person meaning again, being an accountant by trade.
I like order, I like discipline.
So I think when I started, youknow, my career, it was truly

(07:35):
about, you know, um, having thatstructure and discipline and um
, you know it.
Just, it served me really wellbecause from a very young age,
you know, I, I, you know I don'twant to say I outwork people
because there's a lot of hardworkers out there, but I think
what some people complain about,hard work was just second
nature to me because I had to doit on the ball field.

Brian (07:55):
Yeah, I see that a lot with people who played sports in
high school and then even moreso in college.
You just see that it'ssomething that starts at a young
age with us and it really nevergoes away.
And I'm so glad my kids both ofmy biological children and
actually my bonus sons allplayed sports in high school and

(08:16):
two of them have played incollege.
Three of them actually out ofthe five, have played in college
of sports.
So I think it's one of thegreatest things I've ever done
is just play, stay, know, staywith sports, even though there
are times I didn't even want toplay anymore.
I'm just tired.
You know, I had the passion forrugby that you had for baseball,
but when I was done, I was doneLike I never looked back, like
I know I don't, you know I don'tmiss it, but I know that it

(08:37):
gave me something that I wouldnot have had had I not.
You know, gone through thosedifficult times and travel and
practice and sweating and hurtand cutting, bleeding and full
of mud, and the camaraderie andthe teamwork and the leadership
you are taught.
It's almost a, even if you'renot paying attention, you learn

(09:00):
teamwork, you learn leadership.
It's like almost throughosmosis, because every player on
the team has to be a leader tosome degree and you have to
learn teamwork if you want to bean effective player.
You know, unless you're maybeUFC, potentially not, or you
know some of the individualsports.

Shannon (09:16):
But I forget about that .
Yeah, well, it's funny, Iliterally forgot about your
rugby days, but I remember ussitting around talking about,
talking about, you know, some ofthose details you just gave.
But what's really interestingto hear you say, when I was done
, I was done.
And, um, it's funny, peoplethat you know don't have that
same opportunity.
And I know I'm blessed to haveplayed college ball.

(09:38):
You know they want it to keepgoing because they never tasted
it.
They were never able to go doit.
For myself, personally, I knewinternally, probably I would say
two years before I was done, Iknew it was coming to an end
Because that passion, that fire,it was just different and it
was time to move on.

(09:58):
So, very similar to yourself,when my door shut, I just you
know, back to your originalquestion to yourself.
When, when my door shut, um, Ijust you know, back to your
original question, I then foundsomething else that I could pour
that discipline and passioninto which, you know, turned out
to be my career yeah, justtransfer it over.

Brian (10:12):
It's the same mindset, it's the same discipline, it's
the same work ethic it justtransferred over.
I remember I played three and ahalf years um, I think it was
seven seasons.
There were two seasons a yearin rugby and my final season I
graduated in December out ofcollege and that fall I didn't
play and I said I'm done.
And I remember I think it wasthe five o'clock bell at the

(10:34):
center of CMU's campus would gooff and that would always be the
time we would start practice.
Or maybe I was always riding topractice, but that was a sign
that OK, it's time for practice.
And I remember, for likeprobably a month or two, I'd
hear that bell go off and I'd gooh man, I kind of wish I was
out there playing or practicingright now.
But it was very fleeting and itdidn't really last long.
It was like but I got 18 credithours, I got to get out of here

(10:57):
, I got to get a job, and thenwe met, and then we met, yeah,
so Shannon growing up bluecollar.
So Shannon growing upblue-collar family.
You know, like myself and I seethat so many unsuccessful
people that sometimes at smalltowns grow up, sometimes it's
blue-collar families.
Usually you have a good familystructure, whether it's parents

(11:17):
or grandparents.
But growing up for you, who orwhat inspired you Other than
baseball?
Was there a person or a bookyou read or something you saw
that kind of made that switch,kind of that?
That, that that switch kind ofturn over in you?

Shannon (11:33):
Yeah Well, I'm going to answer that two ways, you know.
Number one I put my brother atthe top of the list and I'll
explain that in a second.
I watched him doing things thatreally raised the bar for me.
And then in retrospect you knownow, years later, I think about
the influence that my motherand father both had, and at the

(11:56):
time it was more one of thosesubliminal messages that now I
understand it a lot better.
But I had a immense prideinside, or, I'm sorry, I wanted
to make them proud because ofwho they were and the sacrifices
that they made.
And you know, it's still tothis day when I think about and

(12:17):
again, you know parents do thisfor their children, but when
you're younger you don't alwaysunderstand.
But you see the sacrifices, youknow they're doing it for you.
But at the same time now Ireally believe I did stuff
because I wanted them to beproud of me.
But if I come back to my brother, my brother is a I call him a

(12:39):
serial entrepreneur.
When he was 12 years old he hada paper route, but that wasn't
good enough.
Instead of delivering just inour neighborhood, he would
literally go and negotiate withother kids in the neighborhood
who had other streets and hewould basically do their paper
route and take a portion.
It would kind of split themoney.

(13:00):
Well, in high school hestruggled to go to school all
the time because he got thismoney and entrepreneurial bug.
So he had all these businessesgoing and ultimately was very
successful at that.
You know, let's say 15, 16, 17years old and I was fairly lazy

(13:20):
outside of baseball I was fairlylazy Like I liked to be on the
couch and I liked to sleep in,but my brother was up early and
worked all night long.
And it was funny when I startedin this business, brian, you
know we we had leaders at thattime that said, hey, you're
going to work eight to eight andI remember thinking, oh, that's
part-time compared to mybrother, because he literally

(13:43):
had multiple businesses wheresome of them, you know, he
wouldn't start.
He had an awards business,trophies and awards, and
sometimes 11, 12, one o'clock atnight he would start putting
together the awards that he hadto deliver two or three days
down the road and there weremany times he asked me to help
him and that's how we actuallyhad some camaraderie.
So it was funny when we talkabout work ethic and you know

(14:05):
who impacted you.
I mean, I watched this guyliving it out and, man, I'm so
blessed today because in mybusiness he's actually my COO
and CFO.
So now what I used to watch weget to actually experience every
single day of our lives, whichis really really cool.

Brian (14:20):
So a big shout out to your brother, sean right.
Yes, sean cool.
So a big shout out to yourbrother, sean right.
Yes, sean, all right.
So tell us a little bit aboutBlue Mark.
So I was part of your journeyback in the early days of you
becoming an advisor atAmeriprise.
Tell us about what you guys aredoing at Blue Mark now, which
you founded in what, 2011?

Shannon (14:39):
Yep.
So we launched our firm in 2011and started with really three
individuals myself, jill, whowas Tulio at the time, which is
now Syracuse, and a lifelong ortwo decade friend named Henry
Guzzo.
So there were three of usreally with a dream of just
being top notch advisors, andwe've grown that business.

(15:02):
Now, you know, we're in our15th year.
We float between 60 to 70 totalemployees.
We have two very distinctbusinesses.
So we have a full tax operation, so this year probably did a
little bit over 3,000 taxreturns, and that covers clients
in 46 states.

(15:22):
And the other side of thebusiness, which is our core
business, is comprehensivefinancial advice.
So where we're a little bitunique is, of course, we have
our CFPs and financial advisorson staff, but we partner them to
give the client a differentexperience with a CPA or
enrolled agent.
So those two people worktogether, side by side, to help

(15:46):
clients build their overallfinancial game plan and then,
obviously, help them navigatethe things that change.
As you know, life throws themcurveballs or gives them
opportunities.
So we started out with justthree of us.
15 years we, you know, reallyhave exploded the business and
you know when we startedeverybody teases me because I
said I will never have more than25 employees, and here we now

(16:10):
sit with, you know, 60 to 70,depending on seasonal tax staff.

Brian (16:15):
That's incredible.
I mean, I look back on theearly days and you were one of
those guys that I think we allcould agree on that you were
going to do something big.
I mean, you definitely had thatdirection.
You needed very little from me.
You needed really from any ofthe people in leadership or
management.
It was just plug and play withyou and here's what you do and

(16:37):
you went and did it.
I remember one distinct day andI don't know if you remember
that I tell this story quite abit.
It's such a good lesson onfailure and you were in the
front conference room at in theoffice.
I remember exactly where youwere.
I think it was the very firstone on the left when you walked
in the down the hallway in Troyand I w it was a Friday, I think
um, I could be wrong and I waswalking down and you were
getting up.
You were in there making coldcalls by yourself to get your 12

(17:01):
appointments and you weregetting up and putting a hash
mark on the whiteboard and Ikept.
I came in finally like dude,what are you doing?
And you said I know my stats.
For every four no's I get a yes.
So every time I get a no I putit up there and I celebrate it
in my head because I know thatthat yes is coming.
So when I'm on my first no, Ithink I got three more to go
before I get the, before I getthe S.

(17:22):
When I'm on the third one, I'mpretty sure the next call or the
fourth one, the next call isgoing to be a yes, and you kind
of celebrated those littlerejections, knowing that they
were getting you closer tosuccess.
And I do you recall that at all?

Shannon (17:34):
Well, I remember years ago I'd almost had to spend 10
years.
You and I were maybe havingbreakfast together and you had
brought that up and at that timeand breakfast together, and you
had brought that up and at thattime, no, I hadn't thought
about that in years.
But I would tell you that thatconcept is probably still a part
of my secret sauce.

(17:54):
Today I don't use a whiteboardand I don't count no's, but my
belief is and maybe it's thestatistician in me being an
accountant is that it truly is anumbers game.
And then the more people youtalk to, the more likelihood you
know your success is going toincrease.
And one of the things that havereally driven blue mark is our

(18:14):
ability to acquire and retaincustomers.
But I also would say I get alot more no's throughout the
course of the year, not becausewe're not doing something right,
but because timing isn't rightfor the customer.
You know, maybe they're workingwith a CPA that they're happy
with, or you know maybe they're,you know, a do-it-yourselfer

(18:36):
and they want to.
You know kind of use theinternet as their guide and
that's fine.
And then I'm always celebratingwhen you know you have a year.
You know, kind of like we'vehad this year, where all of a
sudden, you know nerves come infor various reasons and then
your phone rings and that's thatperson that had told you no
four times previously.

(18:57):
So, no, I don't really countthe no's now, but intuitively,
um, I, I, I think you have to gothrough, you know, not failure,
but you have to go throughthose times, um, in order to
have those successes.
So I don't remember, you know,doing it on a whiteboard, but I
remember you bringing it upabout 10 years ago and I would
say I would say that's still abig part of how how I think you

(19:20):
know inside.

Brian (19:20):
Yeah, there's a.
I think there's a much more uhmacro learning.
There's a much more uh macrolearning there for a lot of
people that we are.
Every time we do something,especially something new, we are
going to have those microfailures along the way.
And every time you you fall,every time you fail at something
or get a rejection, whatever itmight be, it just it does mean
you are closer to getting thatyes, and you're closer to

(19:41):
getting that victory, that andwe just so.
I think we live in a world todaywhere we expect things so
quickly.
You know you get better internetbecause you want your computer
to.
You know you want to be able togo from one tab to another
microsecond faster than than theprevious uh megabytes or
gigabytes or whatever you get onyour computer.
We expect that where, inreality, the truth, success is

(20:02):
not big aha moments, it's thosedirt getting dirty every day,
it's being consistent with whatyou do, it's being, it's the
discipline and the and thewillpower that it takes, and
during that time, you are goingto get bloodied, you are going
to get muddy, you are going toget bruised, you're going to
fall down, you're going to getscratched and scraped.
And just realize every one ofthose scratches becomes a badge

(20:23):
of honor because they get youone step closer to that yes that
you want to get in life.
So that was a big lesson inlearning for me that you taught
me and you don't even realizeyou taught me it and it's still
something I use in my coachingpractice with my clients and for
myself as well.
I'll have to give it a name theKluge, something I'm going to
give it a name.

Shannon (20:43):
I've got to give you credit for that one man.

Brian (20:44):
That's too funny.
So can you talk to us right nowand share with us?
You've been doing a lot ofgreat things obviously.
Your business obviously isdoing exceedingly well.
You're a strong family man.
You've got your wife, you'vegot three children.
You're strong in your community.
What do you think right now isa really good learning you've

(21:07):
had that you'd like to sharewith us, that you think could be
something that really kind ofresonated with you over the last
year or two?

Shannon (21:16):
I'm learning it as I get up every day, but I would
say my most recent one, which ismassively impactful, is the
ability to let go.
I've literally been talkingabout this with our team is the
thing that keeps you from movingto that next level or having

(21:39):
that next success however youdefine it is letting go of what
got you here.
And the hardest part as humanbeings is we want to be
successful, we want you know, wewant accolades or we want
people to notice what we've beendoing, but the only way that
you can go to that next level isit starts with letting go of
what got you there.
And my big challenge is I'vekind of been the rainmaker in

(22:04):
our firm and I'm the person thatultimately has a lot to do with
the infrastructure of marketingfor our business.
And what I've been trying to donow is stop trying to acquire
clients one at a time but startbeginning to network to
hopefully acquire clients at 200, 300, 400 a time Meaning it's

(22:26):
what I do today in therelationships I build.
That might lead to somebodywanting us to buy their practice
five, seven, 10 years from now,or it might be somebody who is
a solo practitioner right nowthat they're on that fast track
and they're doing really, reallywell, but they don't even know
what's coming ahead of them,because they're going to need

(22:50):
help.
I mean, the calendar iseverybody's equalizer and to me,
I want to be in a position,when they realize they need
something bigger, that I wouldbe the first phone call they
make.
I can't do that if I keep, youknow, go back to the days in
Troy, if I keep pounding thephones trying to acquire clients
one at a time.
I've always said, when it comesto transitioning a business not

(23:13):
necessarily financial practice,but any business manufacturing
practice if you spend your lifedoing it, when you realize it's
time to transition on, you'renot just going to sell it to the
next person that walks throughthe door, on, you're not just
going to sell it to the nextperson that walks through the
door.
You want to be able totransition those clients, those
relationships, to somebody youhave a relationship with.

(23:34):
So my biggest learning by farin the last 12 months is if you
want to take your game to thenext level, it starts with you
letting go of your past andmoving on to something new.

Brian (23:46):
I think Shumter called that creative destruction.

Shannon (23:49):
Absolutely.
I don't know that, but it's agreat, great, great phrase for
it, for sure.

Brian (23:55):
There's a book out.
I'm not a big hero-worshipingguy.
I'm not one of those guys.
In fact, other than my motherwho's a hero of mine, most of my
people I look up to arefictional characters in books,
because at least I can paintthem the way they truly I want
them to be, not who they reallyare.
But there is one guy namedMarshall Goldsmith who I think

(24:16):
is the goat of our industry.
He's got, I think, four, threeor four international
bestselling books out.
Thankfully he's coming on thepodcast later in the summer here
.
But I've always looked up tohim as a man of just incredible
wisdom and wealth.
And he wrote a book and I haveit in my bookshelf right now.
It's called what Got you here,won't Get you there, and it's
exactly what you just said.
And it's amazing how difficultthat is for me at times.

(24:40):
Do you realize, shannon?
Yesterday was the first timeI've ever done a virtual
coaching session.
All my coaching sessions aredone over the phone.
If I'm in the city of where theyare located, I'll do a
face-to-face with them, but I doeverything over the phone,
despite everybody saying, hey,we want to do Microsoft Teams or
Zoom calls with you or evenFaceTime, and I have refused.

(25:00):
That until yesterday was thefirst time, and it was one of
those things, like you said, Ican't go where I want to take
this thing this year, next yearif I only do phone calls.
And so I figured it out.
I got my computer set up that Icould actually do a virtual one
hour coaching session with aclient yesterday.
So when you were saying that, Ithought that's exactly what I
had to do.

(25:21):
I had to stop doing what got meto where I am, which is almost
all coaching sessions over thephone, to migrating to virtual,
you know, face-to-face, over thecomputer screen coaching
sessions.
So that's a tough one for me todo.
I like to hold on to the thingsI've always done.

Shannon (25:36):
Well, if I can share a brief story, probably one of my
failures as a leader I had anexecutive assistant who was
going to start a family andobviously has every right to do
that, and I was excited for herand we celebrated.
But she gave me a proposal ofshe wanted to work from home and

(25:58):
kind of work part time.
She was going to have somebodycome in and watch the baby and I
was so set against virtual workat the time that I said, yeah,
that's just not going to work.
I need you here in the office.
What was great is my brotherwho worked with me said, hey,
she's a talent, I'll take her,and I said that's fine.

(26:21):
Lo and behold, this was beforethe pandemic.
She ended up having a very highleadership position in our firm
before ultimately transitioningon to, you know, in her career.
But I almost cost Blue Mark thisgreat talent because I was set
in my ways and I needed her tobe in the office.

(26:42):
And what it really was is Ididn't know how to do the
virtual coaching it was.
I had learned how to take noteson a yellow pad and not move to
technology and unfortunately,you know this person, Blumark,
would not have been who we aretoday if it wasn't for her
influence.
But my brother was smart enoughto say hey, I'll take her

(27:03):
virtually the secret to him.
He was actually already livingin Florida and the business was
based in Michigan, so he wasworking remotely anyway.
So he saw this opportunity whenI was so closed-minded that not
only did I lose a greatexecutive assistant, but I would
have cost the company somebodythat went on to do great things
in our organization.

Brian (27:23):
See, it's hard to teach us old soldiers the new
technologies, but I'm glad yougot a board.
Do you do a lot of workvirtually through Teams or Zoom?

Shannon (27:32):
Yeah, Again, when you service customers across the
country, I mean it's pretty muchyou can't have them come into
the office.
So, yeah, it's almost 100%virtual at this point.

Brian (27:42):
Well, I'm announcing to about half my client base this
and next week that I'm willingto now do virtual calls, you
know, so they can see my face.
I kind of like the fact that Idon't have to worry about
putting a certain shirt on orwhat's in the background.
And honestly, you know, I don'tthink I've talked to you as
much in the last couple of years.
The last three years, shannon,I traveled.
I mean I had a house inEscanaba, michigan, for three

(28:04):
years.
I literally just moved out ofit.
This past Saturday I was at myhouse in three years maybe I
don't even know maybe twice amonth on average I was there.
I'd go a month or two and noteven see the house, and so it
really wasn't as conducive.
But now that I'm settled andgot the office here set up in

(28:27):
the Wisconsin area, it's a loteasier for me to do it.
I really liked it.
I told my clients, I said, okay, we're doing this from now on
because I really enjoyed it.
I can see your face, you cansee mine.
There's less distraction.

Shannon (28:41):
Yeah, I think for me, Brian and again, this is one of
those warnings of letting go isI impact more lives and more
households today than everbefore because's, say, south in
Toledo or north in the UpperPeninsula that also needed my
guidance and help, that Iliterally couldn't help them

(29:12):
because I was set in my ways ofno, you've got to come into my
office.
So I applaud you for thinkingyou're going to go that route
and I think you know the numberof lives you'll impact will
explode, you know, with that onesmall change.

Brian (29:27):
Yeah, I appreciate that.
Now that's.
I love that piece of advice.
So let go of the thing, let goof the ability to let go of what
got you here.
I mean that that resonated alot.
Um, I like this next questionand so you answer it however
you'd like.
Um, it's a question that kindof digs into a little bit about
you, who you are as a man.
What do you think, shannon isone of the most difficult things
you've ever gone through inyour life, and then what did you
do to overcome it?

Shannon (29:52):
I probably have to go back to 2010.
2010 was a year I lost myfather.
My dad was a lifelong cardiacpatient.
He was in his mid forties andhad open heart surgery.
Actually, I was in college whenthat happened and we spent, you

(30:13):
know, the next, let's say, twodecades just knowing that you
know he was going to leave usbecause of a cardiac incident.
Ultimately, he was stillworking you know, working in a
shop and you know slinging sheetmetal, as we used to say and he
started developing um a a suresoldier or sore shoulder and, um

(30:37):
, long story short, uh, foundout that he had a mass in his
lung, um head lung cancer, andhis fight against cancer was
relatively short.
But when he was battling cancer,I made it a point to go with
him.
He happened to have his cancertreatments on Tuesdays and I

(31:01):
went and sat with him everysingle day.
I did it for a couple reasons.
Number one was I wanted to givemy mom relief, you know, so
that she could do some groceryshopping and what have you.
But what was difficult, brian,is I never really had the
relationship with my father.
I wanted, as I explainedearlier in one of your questions
, you know he set a greatexample, great work ethic, he

(31:21):
was a great teacher.
But there was not a lot of feelgood in my dad, you know, there
was not a lot of fluff, and asa kid I needed, you know, really
, what my mom gave me, which wasI needed more physical touch, I
needed more loving, I neededthat hug and that just was not
my father me a gift during thistime where for nine months, as

(31:46):
he went through chemo, him and Ihad to sit and stare at each
other and we had to talk and asI sat there I knew I was losing
my father because of doctor'sappointments and stuff, that I
would be there.
But I really gained my fatherduring one of the toughest times
I ever had with him, because upuntil that time he just he

(32:10):
would never open up.
He didn't share a lot about hisyounger years with me, but what
he did do during those ninemonths Brian is man you want to
talk about.
Talking about my mother, youknow he, he talked about how
special she was and the pedestalthat he put her up on until
this day is still a thing that Istrive for to do for my own

(32:31):
family, but he was never one totell you about it.
You know he just did it.
So losing, you know, probablyone of the most influential
people in my life to the ugly Cword was, you know, very
difficult, very devastating.
The ugly c word was, you know,very difficult, very devastating
.
And watching him, you know, gofrom this, you know blue collar

(32:51):
guy that you know was alwaysfairly physical, physically fit,
I mean he also liked to eat too, but uh, you know, at the same
time to watch cancer, you know,dwindle him, uh, was very, very
tough.
But the gift I received by himhaving to be hooked up to the IV
and two men sitting theretalking about life, so when you

(33:13):
ask about the toughest thing waslosing him and watching that
happen.
But the greatest gift I everreceived was the fact that he
couldn't ignore me because hewas hooked to that IV and we had
dialogue that I had not had andhad really, in retrospect,
really needed in my life upuntil that point.
So you know you talk aboutturning a negative into a great

(33:34):
positive.
I would say that's probably oneof the biggest things, you know
, challenges, that I've everfaced.

Brian (33:41):
Wow, you know, in 144 episodes of this show, that's
one of the most profoundQuestions I've ever heard or
answers I've ever heard to thisquestion.
I love the fact that you guyswere it was.
You know, necessity is themother of invention and you guys
were forced to sit there and,other than staring at each other
, you had to communicate andconverse.

(34:02):
And for him to have, for you tohave that opportunity, but also
for him, you know, to be ableto pass on, you know, his
experience and just really sitthere and talk about your mother
.
That I'm sure you knew he lovedher deeply and obviously still
does from above.
But to hear it from your father, dude, that's goosebump

(34:23):
material, man.
God bless you, brother.

Shannon (34:27):
Well, I appreciate it.
And if I could add one thing onto that, I had a I'll call it a
dark moment.
It really wasn't that big of adeal, but again, as my dad was
dealing with some of thiscardiac stuff a few years
earlier, um, I'll say five yearsearlier, um, he had a doctor's
appointment and him and I werein a car together and I asked
him how his doctor's appointmentwent and he said I'm fine.

(34:49):
And I'm like I know you're finewith the doctor, say.
And he snapped at me and hesaid I'm fine.
And it was his way of sayinghey, you're crossing a boundary
here that I don't really want togo into.
And him and I had this argumentdriving down 696, you know, in
Detroit.
And that moment, brian, I saidto myself I can either spend the
rest of my life challengingthis man in an area where he

(35:13):
doesn't want to be challenged,or I can meet him where he's at.
And that day I decided to startcreating experiences with my
father, to put us together to dothings that he would enjoy.
My dad was a big race fan.
He loved NASCAR.
Anything to do with speed mydad loved.
Well, I was fortunate enough Iended up during that five-year

(35:36):
window.
I took him to the Indianapolis500.
I took him to the Daytona 500.
But again it's back to lettinggo.
I had to decide that I wasgoing to have a relationship
with him on his terms instead oftrying to do it my way.
So just a little add on to yourquestion Again great mentor,
losing him was probably one ofthe biggest difficulties in my

(35:57):
life, but I learned so much, youknow, from those times with him
as well.

Brian (36:00):
And then obviously you've lost him physically, but those,
those nine months together, Imean just it's hard to even
probably put into a number orquantify the wisdom he shared
with you.
The life lesson you got fromthose nine months with him, I
mean that you pass on to yourchildren then down the road,

(36:21):
down the road grandchildren, andI mean that's beautiful,
brother and then now sharing itwith us.
And I think about that a lotwhen you were talking.
We become so impatient with thepeople we are closest to and
you know we tend to judge.
My family is pretty good atthis actually, and I say this a

(36:42):
lot.
People tend to judge peoplebecause they don't act the way I
would act or they don't act theway I want them to act.
But everybody behaves in theinterest they think is best for
the situation they're in,whether they're talkative or not
talkative, you know, whetherthey're seem cranky or happy all
the time or whatever it is, youknow, and everybody just has a
different style of going throughthis journey of life and, like

(37:05):
you said, when we can meet themwhere they want to be met and
just go with them on thatjourney, there's a lot of
beautiful things that come outof that.
You know we're trying to.
Otherwise we're trying to put asquare peg in a round hole.

Shannon (37:19):
And it's just frustrating for everybody.
Oh, definitely, and I think asI'm aging you know not old but
as I'm aging I'm realizing thatthe older you get, the less
flexible you want to be and westart driving those fences or
those walls in between thepeople that we love the most and
care about the most.
And I think the bestrelationships I have today are
the ones that I share the mostwith openly.

(37:42):
But that's a hard lesson tolearn and a hard thing to
overcome.

Brian (37:46):
It is really.
It's hard to do and I had agentleman on Josh Pasheer a few
weeks ago.
He's got an organization calledUncaged Brotherhood, I believe,
and they, his whole thing isgetting men, you know and these
are successful men that just toget them to share their
authenticity and share theirvulnerability.
And one of the things I'velearned you know me, shannon,

(38:06):
back in the day, you know, weare, all of us were what we'd
call hard asses.
Whether we were naturally ornot, we were kind of taught to
be that way in the industry andI would not share a lot of
things.
And now today I coach my clients, my leadership clients, my
executives, and I coach them onthe key to strong leadership is
vulnerability.
And I don't mean vulnerabilitycoming in and crying over your

(38:27):
cat dying.
I mean vulnerability where youcan be authentically yourself
and you know you can, you couldadmit to mistakes, you can, you
know, be happy with somebodyelse's victories, you can
celebrate with other people, youcan support them, you can
challenge them.
And just being authenticallyyou and open.
I think that's so powerful,especially when it comes to
friends too, I mean.

Shannon (38:48):
Yeah, and Brian, I don't know why, but I think that
authenticity is something thatit just always came natural to
me and I'll give kudos to my mom, who, you know, I was a mama's
boy growing up and, and you knowshe really made me comfortable
in my own skin, um, but what youjust said, I mean that's the
biggest thing I'll take awayfrom this you know this podcast

(39:09):
which is that vulnerability, Ireally believe, is what holds
some people back and it's not,you know, kind of like you said,
it's.
You know, sure, you could talkabout, you know, losing an
animal, I think was your example, but it's, hey, I'm really good
at this, but I struggle at thisand I need your help.
Or being, you know tellingpeople hey, you really make me

(39:31):
proud when you do this.
Or you know, hey, I've noticedthe growth you know telling
people, hey, you really make meproud when you do this.
Or you know, hey, I've noticedthe growth you know that you've
made.
I think that vulnerability issomething that you know I just
naturally did most of my life,um, but I think also, a lot of
times, leaders don't reallyrealize they're leaders, they're
just themselves, um, but Iappreciate you saying that and
it's something that I'mdefinitely writing down from

(39:53):
today.
So thank you.

Brian (39:54):
You're welcome, brother.
What would you say right now,at this stage in your career, in
your life, you would youconsider to be a win or a
victory for you?
What's something that reallygets you going?

Shannon (40:08):
You know it's.
Your questions are alwaysthought-provoking, so I
appreciate them.
Um, you know, a win for me, um,brian, is you probably get from
our conversations today.
Like my entire life, I'vealways been a quote guy.
Um I, everywhere around me, Ihave these quotes that either
people have given me or examplesthey've seen me do in my life

(40:32):
and on one of my social mediapages this is my own quote.
I created this because I wasdoing a lot of estate planning
at the time and I was listeningto families that were talking
about leaving a legacy and thethings that they wanted to do
for their families when theywere gone.
And I put this quote on mysocial media page years ago and

(40:52):
it's still there, which is donot spend your entire life
hoping to leave a legacy, simplylive one.
And to me, what I watched wasthis vulnerability that you just
brought up, where peoplestruggled to tell their children
, or to tell you know, brothers,sisters, siblings, whatever the
case was, how they really felt.

(41:14):
And I really think it's atragedy when people can't
overcome that to a point whereall the good things are going to
be said at their funeral abouthow they lived and what they did
.
So I kind of again at that timechanged my mindset to you know,
a win for me is can I get upevery day and live my legacy,

(41:37):
whatever that is, because Ithink it's different with
everybody.
You know, you and I don't talkevery day, but I would say
you're still as close of afriend as ever because of the
impact that you had on my life30 years ago.
So when I got the invitation tothis podcast number one, I'm
excited just because we canspend some time together.
But if in some way I can leavea little bit of my legacy here

(42:01):
in whatever show this is for you, then that's a win for me.
So you know again, I don't knowif it completely answers your
question, but that's what cameto mind, you know, when you
asked for what is it?
What is a win in?

Brian (42:11):
life what I got out of this.
Don't just leave a legacy, liveyour legacy.
That's kind of that is.
And I wrote that down Causewhenever, like, I hear something
profound like that from a gueston the show or a friend or you
know, a client or anybody,instantly my mind goes to how
can I incorporate that?
Cause I it's so interestingwith this, this, this show,

(42:32):
shannon, and people have askedme what's the biggest surprise
or benefit that you're gettingfrom doing this show, and it is
the learnings I get Probablyevery show.
I get something that I go, ohmy God, am I effing up on that
one?
I'm not doing that.
This was definitely one ofthose things.
I wonder how well I'm living thelegacy, you know, because

(42:53):
obviously I've got grandchildrennow, I've got my children, I've
got my bonus children, you know, a total of three grandchildren
and two more coming this yearand I think about that a lot
Like how will I be remembered?
You know, what can I do to makesure?
No, it's not, don't justremember me.
I mean, live it now so they canlook at me, look to me as that

(43:13):
person of character and of valueand of not importance
importance to them anyway, wherethey can role model after me,
you know, not when I'm gone, butwhen I'm here, and that's a
that's a tough, that's a toughrock to carry, because it's a
lot of expectations and a lot ofyou put a lot of weight on
yourself when you do that, but Ithink it's a really positive

(43:34):
weight, you know.

Shannon (43:36):
Well, I appreciate that .
I want to clarify, you know.
You know one thing you said.
I mean we all are living alegacy every day.
I mean our legacy will bewhatever it is, but is it
intentional?
I mean, do you get up every?
Do you get up every day and sayI need to call that old friend
that I haven't talked to, or allthat old friend that I haven't
talked to?
Or you know, for me sometimesit's slowing down.
I'm so blessed to have my mom,who lives 10 doors down from me,

(44:01):
and sometimes it's slowing downfrom just the day to day to
walk down and take her for awalk or to just sit and listen
to.
You know what her day was allabout.
That's the intentionality.
So that again, what she's goingto celebrate is my son came
down and spent 30 minutes withme.
So we're all leaving a legacyevery single day by the things
we choose to do.
But is it intentional and is ithow you want to be remembered?

(44:22):
I think to me that's the key.

Brian (44:24):
So intentionality is very important.
I agree with that.
As you were talking, there's anote that somebody left me.
Well, I can say who it was itwas Jackie.
I have this picture in front ofmy desk.
It's one of those 3D cutouts ofGreat Lakes where it shows the
depths of the lakes andeverything.
And I have a note she left me acouple of weeks ago.
It says you inspire me, yourpassion for people does not go

(44:47):
unnoticed.
I love you.
And I think when I got that noteone day she left for work and
it was on the kitchen table orthe dining or the in the kitchen
when I went out to get a cup ofcoffee from my office here and
it made me think really, that's,that's what people see in me,
is my passion for people.
And I think so often when youdon't live your legacy

(45:09):
intentionally, you don't reallyknow what your, what impact
you're leaving on people.
And it was kind of I didn'tthink of it in this context at
the time of living my legacyintentionally, but it made me
realize if that's the vibe I'mgiving off, why do I not know
that?
And that's the lack ofintentionality in me living my
legacy.
I'm just living it withoutintentionality and with what you

(45:31):
said today then, looking atthis note now, I realize the
legacy that I want tointentionally continue to live
and live more and more and getbetter at it and have a bigger
impact.
So I appreciate you saying that.
No, there's two great thingsI've got on this show podcast.

Shannon (45:45):
Well, I'm glad I could leave this place a little better
than I found it Right, you know.
But you know I'll share withyou something you just said and
I'll encourage your listenersbut encourage you and I as well.
We grew up in a time that,especially if you're in a sales
career, you were encouraged tosend that personal note.
You send that thank you cardand I married into a family that

(46:08):
they still carry on thattradition.
The number of thank yous thatthey send out are so powerful
and every time I get one from mynieces, my nephews, it truly
impacts me deeply and I used tokeep a file which I don't have
any longer and there's reasonsfor it but of all the thank you
notes that I had received frompeople in my life, and sometimes
it was because I loaned them$25 when they really needed it.

(46:31):
Sometimes it was because Ispent time with them and that's
what they really needed.
But if I can encourage both ofus, but also your listeners
today, is think about the impactthat that note that somebody
gave you really has had on you.
And I think sometimes we dothat with things like Facebook,
where we can talk about peopleopenly, but man sitting down and

(46:54):
writing that handwritten note,because it takes time, and time
is that most valuable commoditythat we all, you know, are
struggling to find more of.
So do it, don't, don't wait,you know.
Write that note, let peopleknow how you feel about them,
because not only are you goingto feel better, but it's going
to change the trajectory oftheir day, you know for sure.

Brian (47:14):
Right, it's 15 minutes out of our day, but it can make
an impact for days for oneperson.

Shannon (47:20):
Definitely.

Brian (47:20):
You know, for Mother's Day this year and my mom's going
to be the she'll be the firstone to hear this podcast,
because she always is I didn'tsend her a card this year and I
certainly didn't.
I called her, obviously, I wroteher a letter and I sent it the
day before Mother's Day, whichwas kind of stupid.
But I wrote her a one page longletter on how I feel about her
and I was so excited for her toget that letter, shannon, and

(47:43):
like Monday, tuesday, wednesday,like Mom, did you get a letter?
No, no, and it was a week and ahalf later that letter came and
she called me and she was, orshe texted me, and she was so
happy with that letter, um,because I sat down and took the
time to explain my feelings andhow much I loved her and
respected her and what she meansto our family and to me and, um

(48:03):
, you know my children andgrandchildren and, uh, it was
just it's again.
It's one of the, like you said,that handwritten note or that
handwritten letter has so muchmore impact than a text or an
email or a Facebook, and thoseare nice too.
Those are quantity, but thequality comes from sitting down
and putting pen to paper.

Shannon (48:21):
Absolutely.
And again, I don't mean topirate your or take over your
podcast, but, mom, mom, sinceyou're going to be the first one
listening, I'm talking to yourlegacy right now.
You have made a massive impacton this world because of that
boy that sent you thathandwritten note.

(48:41):
You did a lot of things rightbecause this guy has impacted my
life tremendously.
Thank you.

Brian (48:49):
Thank you, brother.

Shannon (48:51):
Son of a bitch, you got me crying on my own show
brother, son of a bitch, you gotme crying on my own show.
It wouldn't be a klugeinterview.

Brian (49:01):
If one of us didn't cry.
I can tell you that, oh, thatmeans a lot to me and I know
that's gonna mean a lot to mymom.
Thank you, absolutely okay.
I like this question.
I've got a time machine in ena,wisconsin.
I'm gonna drive over to yourneck of the woods because I know
you're not in florida.
I'm not driving all the way toflorida, but you're in michigan
right now.
We're going to jump in thattime machine.
We're going to go back to atime of your life.
Shannon, you pick the time anddate and the age you are.

(49:21):
You're going to sit down andyou're going to talk to yourself
.

Shannon (49:31):
You're going to give words of wisdom.
People at my office, if theylisten to this, are going to
laugh because I tell them allthe time.
Um, so I'm going to go back to,uh, my high school baseball
days and, um, I just made up inmy head that as a freshman I
should be playing varsity, andthe reality that I learned over

(49:55):
time is that I had a lot tolearn, but in my own head I
thought I knew everything atthat time.
But some of what I needed tolearn were things like being in
the gym like I had never liftedweights, and it's very difficult
as a freshman to compete withpeople at a junior or senior
level who had been working ontheir physical body for two or
three years.
So you know, I think for meit's the word patience, and

(50:20):
you're where you're supposed tobe right now, because sometimes
being on the freshman team orthe JV team gives you the reps
that you need to perfect yourcraft.
But again, as human beings, wealways want to go to that next
level, we always want to let go,as I talked about earlier, but
sometimes you're exactly whereyou're supposed to be at that

(50:42):
moment in your life and I thinkthe hardest part Brian is
understanding those twoopposites is how and when do you
let go to move on to that nextlevel and when do you be patient
and say no?
This is where I'm supposed tobe right now, working on the
things I'm supposed to beworking on, and I have always
been striving for that nextthing.

(51:02):
And if I could go back and grabmyself as a freshman in high
school, maybe I would have madeit to the major leagues or at
least played minor leaguebaseball, if I would have just
been more patient and reallyperfected my craft by
understanding that coaches hadmore wisdom than me and they had
me in the right spot for myskill set and the things I

(51:24):
needed to go develop.

Brian (51:25):
So I think that patience word is a huge, huge one in my
life well, you and I bothstruggle with that one, I think,
as far as you know, we'realways striving to get better at
something or or take somethingto the next level.
And I think you're a hundredpercent, you're definitely a
hundred percent right, it'spracticing that patience.
But then you know, you justkeep doing that grind, grind,
grind, work on the basics, thefundamentals.

(51:46):
But then you, when that, whenthere is a crack in the door,
you go through it.
Then you go back to the basicsof that level and you grind and
you work on the basics and thefundamentals and then you wait
for the next door to crack andthen you go to that.
And I think people just want tojump through all that
fundamentals and and and basicsand jump to the 14th level right
away.
And I, you know, I think a lotof it too is, you know, starting
in the industry.

(52:06):
You and I started in when you'reit was.
You know you're you.
You get a degree, you getcertified, you pass all your
licensing exams and then youcome to your first for me it was
my first professional job andthey say here's a phone, a phone
book and a script.
Just start calling people.
It's like wait a minute.
That's not what I thought.
I thought I was a financialprofessional.
I thought you were just goingto give me some clients with a

(52:26):
bunch of money and I was goingto work my magic.
And nope, here's what you'regoing to do.
You're going to set 12appointments every week and
that's what you're going to do.
You're going to become aglorified phone solicitor for a
while and I think that taughtmyself and you those
fundamentals of the professionalworld.
Anyway, you've got to gothrough the grind.
You've got to do these basicthings.
I wasn't ready to talk to aclient with a lot of money for

(52:47):
the first six months, probably,of my career.

Shannon (52:54):
Yeah, I think again.
Yeah, I think again, brian, it'sthat patience of you know,
sometimes that grind that peopleare asking you questions on the
other end, that you have to gosolidify in your own mind to
become that expert and again youknow, understanding you are
where you're supposed to be atthat moment is really important,
because I've probably learnedmore from my clients than I have
.
I've got 36 letters behind myname in the industry, so I've

(53:15):
read a lot of textbooks.
But I think I've probablylearned more because clients ask
me this real-life questionabout hey, I have a special
needs son and I don't reallyknow how to make sure that I
take care of him financiallyafter I'm gone Not that that's
not in a textbook, but when youhave to come back to the
customer and you have to answerthat question with clarity.

(53:38):
That's how you grow in anybusiness and you know so.
Sometimes you got to go throughthose steps, whether that's,
you know, being a phonesolicitor, as I think you called
it, or you know again,eventually working your way up
to do an advanced tax and estateplan.

Brian (53:53):
And no matter where you are in your career, whatever
advanced level, you are still anapprentice in some degree at
that level and I think it'simportant to always kind of
reinvent yourself, almost likeyou said earlier.
But as we get 30-some years inthe industry both of us this is
my 29th year of coaching.
You've been in the industry for30-some years as a financial
professional we are looked at asthe masters who know a lot of

(54:18):
things I and I that.
For me, that can get to my head.
I have to constantly pushmyself back down and say, okay,
be an apprentice, assume thatyou don't know anything and do
do the basics.
I'm not going to phone solicitanymore.
I'm not cold calling people,but even going back sometimes,
shannon, I'll read originalbooks, books like Seven Habits
of Highly Effective People,leadership Secrets of Attila the
Hun, some of those originalbooks that changed my life 30

(54:40):
years ago.
I'll go back and reread thoseto remind myself that I have yet
to master a lot very little,and I'm still an apprentice in
so many things that I do in mycareer.
And I made 2025, I decided lastyear that this is the year I
assume I don't know anything.
I assume I'm starting mycoaching practice all over again
.
So my mindset has been whatwould you do differently now,

(55:02):
with 29 years of experience?
What would you do differently,brian, if you didn't know
anything but you had thisexperience and wisdom behind you
?
And one of those thingshappened to be virtual coaching.
You know, trying to explainthat, going onto YouTube a
little more, um, reading alittle bit more about books that
I never would have read before,um, because I didn't like the
author, necessarily.

(55:22):
It's kind of doing things thatI wish I would have done 29
years ago, and starting this andit's a.
It's a really refreshing idea,it's a really refreshing feeling
for me, anyway, to put myselfin that apprentice role again,
and I, it's, I love it, I loveit.

Shannon (55:36):
Um, but I think, the well I think, the more you learn
, the more you becomecomfortable that you're never
going to know it all and nomatter how successful you become
, the knowledge you retain is athimble's worth of all the
knowledge in the world.
So you know, we, we might begreat as advisors or podcasters,
but I don't know anything aboutengineering.
I can't build my own house.

(55:57):
So, again, I think a lot ofit's ego-driven, as you know,
the more you can understand thatyou know your specialty.
Knowledge sometimes isdeveloped over 30, 40, 50 years
and you still have to be anapprentice on, whether it's
being a cook or whatever it maybe.
So, yeah, great lesson for allof us, whether it's being a cook
or whatever it may be.

Brian (56:14):
So um, yeah, great lesson for all of us.
Is it okay if I share the storythat we talked about um before
the before we aired here umabout the, the gentleman who got
mad at us.

Shannon (56:26):
Um, yeah, absolutely, um.
I made you cry, so now you'vegot the upper hand so you get to
do whatever you want.

Brian (56:35):
It's your podcast, it's my damn show.
So every folks.
This was when shannon was inhis first year as a financial
advisor at american expressfinancial, now ameriprise.
Um, me, as a training manager,I was supposed to sit in a lot
of my a lot of the advisorsmeetings and with their, with
prospects right, and we had arule that was it closed three
times for the check.
Was that what?
It was sure you had to ask forthat?
Yeah, you had to ask for theclosed three times for the check
.

Intro (56:53):
Was that what it was?
Sure, I don't remember.
You had to ask for that.

Brian (56:54):
Yeah, you had to ask for the check three times.
A client said I want to thinkabout it.
There was three.
So we were with this husbandand wife and Shannon, I could
get some of the details wrong,but my memory, this is what I
remember anyway, so correct meif I'm wrong there was a, a

(57:17):
round table and you and I, thiscouple and you, were doing a
great job with them and at theend, the wife.
Really, it was clear theyneeded your help and the wife
was like, yep, I want to do this.
And in the process of thismeeting, the husband left a
couple of times and went to thebathroom.
Anyway, after three times wewere asking for the check, she
was yes, he was still no, or Iwant to think about it, and
she's like I want to do this,blah, blah, blah.
So we ended up what we calledclosing for the check 12 times

(57:42):
In a different way.
We practiced how we're going toovercome this objection and I
believe the number was 12 times,to the point where, at the end,
the guy got up.
He didn't throw a chair, but hepushed chair toward us and they
he stormed out.
And I remember this, shannon,this part, I remember he went up
when we to shake his hand andhe kind of almost wanted to give
me a hug, but he maybe it wasand I didn't, but he smelled

(58:04):
like alcohol and I think what hewas doing was going to the
bathroom, anyway, long anddrinking, long story short, we
closed this guy um hard and andit wasn't really our, it
wasn't't really.
You know, shannon's not thatguy to close hard, I'm really
not that guy to close hard.
But we thought, well, the wifewants it, let's see if we can
convince him.
And anyway he called and put acomplaint on me as the training

(58:26):
manager.
And the next day I got calledinto my boss's office and got
read the riot act a little bitand I'm like, oh okay, yeah,
you're probably right, you know.
Then they, they end up callingthe head, honcho, putting on
speakerphone and told him thestory.
And, uh, when the head, themain boss, uh got done listening
, he kind of talked to me for meand he goes, and this is not

(58:47):
his direct quote, but he saidsomething to the effect of brian
, if you ever do that again,you're going to be promoted.
So it was one of those dealswhere we probably didn't do the
right thing.
But we were both.
I mean, I was the same age asyou.
I wasn't very.
I was.
I don't think I'm much olderthan you.
I'm 58.
What are you, shannon?
I'm 57.
Okay, so it was just these twoyoung guys trying to get this

(59:10):
lady the financial services shewanted.
Her husband was kind ofrejecting it and the husband was
not happy.
But I learned a very valuablelesson that day is you know, if
you believe in what you're doing, you push.
And if you, if somebody, if, if, if it's over, if you have to
ask for something 12 timesbecause you know what's in the

(59:30):
best interest of that person andthey, they want it.
They just don't know how to sayyes, don't give up.
We just did it wrong.
You and I were a couple ofbuffoons in there, you know,
like two monkeys fighting over afootball in there.
But it was a, it was a fun timeand I'll never forget that,
that story of how he got upsetand you were like dude, I don't

(59:50):
know if we did that right.
I'm like I don't know.
We probably broke a record forasking for the check 12 times.

Shannon (59:56):
Well, I know you had said it, you were my training
manager.
I was just doing what mymanager told me to do Put the
blame on me.
I think, even as you tell thatstory to me, I'm very passionate
about this industry and I'veseen a lot of financial failure
because of what you justdescribed, where husbands and
wives aren't on the same pagebecause they don't talk about

(01:00:18):
these things, and I don't knowwhether or not that was true in
this case or not, but when youare getting the I'll call them
buying signals from one half ofyour customer saying I need this
, I want this, or we need thisand we want this.
You know, again to your point.
Sometimes you got to push, butprobably not as hard as we did
that day.

Brian (01:00:37):
Well, we pushed because we were inexperienced and didn't
have a lot of talent in theindustry yet.
So all we could do is justblunt force trauma.
You know, we had to do it in avery, very we could have been a
little more suave.
Probably 30 years later we'regoing to handle that situation
much differently.
But you live and learn.
Absolutely All right, brother,what's next for you?

Shannon (01:00:59):
I don't know.
You bring me back on thepodcast.

Brian (01:01:01):
Yeah, I'd love to have you back on.
There's 30 years of wisdom inthat head.
We've got to pull out.

Shannon (01:01:08):
Yeah, it's a good question.
So we're we're at, um, thesecrossroads.
So you know, I have threewonderful children, um, you know
, technically four because uh,my oldest just got married and,
uh, really excited for them.
They live in new york city and,uh, my, my new son-in-law is so
talented, he's a trained operasinger and he's going to give it
a go on New York City.

(01:01:30):
And when I tell you, brian, youlisten to him sing, man it just
it makes the hair on your armsstand up.
And I've been encouraging thembecause, if not now, when?
And you know, I want to be hisbiggest, you know, cheerleader
and proponent, because I thinkhe has the talent.
So, you know, my oldest twowe'll call them are out of the

(01:01:58):
house.
My two youngest two just movedto Tampa, florida, and we're
empty nesters for the first time.
My wife and I are, you know,getting to know each other again
.
What I mean by that is we'vegot a very strong relationship.
But you know, sometimes whenyou have people in the house,
they act as a buffer and youdon't have to always have the
deep conversations, althoughwe've always really done a good
job with that.
So, you know, we're trying tofigure out what that next step
is my two youngest just movedout in February.

(01:02:20):
So you know we've beentraveling a lot, almost to a
fault.
We were exhausted after thefirst part of the year some
business, some fun, and then,obviously, you know, my oldest
daughter just graduated with adegree in dance movement therapy
, so we went out to New YorkCity to celebrate with her.
So I think it's one of thesetimes, brian, where you know I'm

(01:02:43):
going to invoke that patienceword again.
It's also new that I think wehave to understand where we're
supposed to be right now andjust continue to work through it
together.
So you know where that leads,or what's next, I don't really
know right now, but I'm tryingto.
You know, listen to my ownwords, which is I'm exactly

(01:03:05):
where I'm supposed to be rightnow.
Be in the moment, be patient,you know, enjoy this time
uninterrupted with my beautifulwife and see where it goes.

Brian (01:03:14):
I love it, brother.
Give my best to Margaret too.
Will you please tell her I saidhello.

Shannon (01:03:18):
I will.

Brian (01:03:19):
Absolutely Okay.
Final question Is there anyquestion, shannon, that I did
not ask, that you wish I wouldhave, or is there any final
message?
You can leave with the bamboopack members out there, or is
there any?

Shannon (01:03:32):
final message you can leave with the Bamboo Pack
members out there, not aquestion.
But you know I talked aboutbeing a quote guy.
You know, brian, I said it alittle bit, you know, when I
thanked your mother.
I have used you as an examplethroughout my career where
people have said you know, hey,you're really successful in this
area.
You know what was your secretto success?

(01:03:55):
And a lot of times I said, well, I'm a little bit of Brian
Bosley on this and I'm a littlebit of Fadi Barati on this and
I'm a little bit of my brotherSean on this.
And it's that summation of allthese people that impact you,
that make you who you are, ofall these people that impact you
, that make you who you are.
And I attended a retirementparty for a family friend many

(01:04:15):
years ago and I was asked by hisson to say a few words.
Now, this is my mom and dadbest friends.
So they were around thehousehold my entire life, around
the household my entire life.
And he wasn't a very outgoingman as far as his words, but I

(01:04:39):
think he lived a Christianperspective every day of his
life and set an example for methat I still carry on today.
So at his retirement, I readthis thing this was on the
bulletin board of my high schoolin the locker room and some of
your listeners may have heardthis before and I may butcher it
a little bit, but basically itsays there's a wide-eyed little
fellow who believes you arealways right and his ears are

(01:05:01):
always open and he's watchingday and night For you're setting
an example in everything you dofor the little boy who's
dreaming to grow up to be likeyou.
And I put that on a plaque andI gave that to him as his
retirement gift.
And I had never said thosewords or anything close to that

(01:05:23):
to this man my entire life.
And it was funny.
I had another commitment.
So when I talked to his son Isaid, hey, I can talk, but I
have to go first and then I'vegot to leave, unfortunately, and
I didn't get to stay there.
But what I heard was afterwards, like nobody wanted to speak
after me and nobody.
Nobody wanted, you know.

(01:05:44):
And again, he had a greatretirement party.
But, brian, you were that typeof person to me and you don't
understand.
You were trying to be a newleader and you were probably one
year ahead of me, as we'vedescribed here, but the impact
you had on me in the moment,because I didn't know what to do
at that point in my career.
I didn't know how to say things, I didn't know how to close 12

(01:06:08):
times, and maybe your view of mewas very different, but you
gave me a comfort to continuebeing who I wanted to be because
you believed in me and I reallythink in life, if we can
remember that quote and this wasstapled to the bulletin board
back when we had both the boardsin my high school locker room,

(01:06:29):
and that's how much of an impactit made on me when I was
probably 14 years old, that I'veused it throughout my life,
because what I took away from itis every single day of our
lives, somebody's watching, andmost of the time we don't know
that they're watching.
Or, like me to you, the impactthat you were having because
they were watching is waygreater than you give yourself

(01:06:53):
credit for.
See, the problem is is we don'tget to measure that.
That's measured by the peoplethat are watching us, and when I
gave my father's eulogy, Italked about you know my dad did
all these great things for me,but the thing that I remember
the most was my dad, on theweekends, had to go up to the
place that he worked.
He was in quality control at thetime and he had to make sure

(01:07:15):
that the plant was locked down,all the machinery was shut off.
You know, basically just doingquality control, right.
And he used to take me there onthe weekends and it was my
happiest time of the weekendbecause my dad took time to take
me and he used to put me on theback of a high low and drive me
around.
A high low to me was like thiscrazy.
I knew what a car was, I didn'tknow what a high low was.
And then he used to have thesevending machines that you would

(01:07:38):
get coffee and hot chocolate outof and he would buy me a hot
chocolate.
And we did this every weekendfor years and that is one of my
most treasured moments.
My dad probably thought I'm justgoing to check on the shop and
I'm bringing my boys with me,but I was that wide eyed little
fellow that was watching my dadgoing.
Oh, this is where he works.
Oh man, he must be important,because look at those 72 keys on

(01:08:00):
his key ring.
You know, it's all these thingsfrom the perspective of the
observer, that really, reallymakes an impact.
So, if I can leave I think youcall them your pack with
anything.
It's like you know people arewatching you every single day
and you don't get to defineexactly how they're going to
take that away, but just makesure that you're trying to leave
that legacy that I talked aboutearlier.

(01:08:21):
And, brian, I want to thank younot only for inviting me on
today, but for being one ofthose people that truly left a
legacy at me way back 30 yearsago.
So thank you.

Brian (01:08:33):
It was an honor, brother, I told you before we started.
Today there's been three peoplefrom my American Express days
that I had the privilege of atleast being a part of their
journey, and in the order oftime I'm sorry of sequential
order the first one was you werethe first one.
Then John Evangelista in AnnArbor was number two, then Rob

(01:08:56):
Mulcahy in Livonia, were threepeople that I had a chance to
work with, that I had made aslight impact on their lives but
always stayed in my heart andmy head over the years.
So thank you for being that man, absolutely.
Thank you, brother.
Can you stand for a few minutesafter we shut off?

Shannon (01:09:11):
Absolutely I'd love to.

Brian (01:09:13):
Shannon man, I appreciate you.
We have been friends for 30years and we're going to have
another 30 ahead of us, so thankyou so much for coming on the
show.

Shannon (01:09:20):
You're welcome.

Brian (01:09:22):
Everyone, please.
This was a podcast episode thatobviously had an impact on me
emotionally and, I think, for alot of you.
There's so much wisdom thatShannon shared from his
experiences in the life,financial industry, his life
with his parents, and pleaselisten to this one twice.
I don't listen to my show veryoften.

(01:09:43):
Very seldom do I actuallylisten to it because I already
feel I listen to it when I butthis is when I'm going to replay
this weekend when I get time.
I'm going to ask you to doyourself and do your friends and
family a favor.
Share this with three people.
Let them get the wisdom andexperience that Shannon offered
here today.
And please, for my benefit, tohelp the algorithm, please hit
that like button, rate andreview us, and just know that I

(01:10:05):
appreciate each and every one ofyou listeners.
I'll talk to you all in oneweek.
In the meantime, please get outthere and strive to give and be
your best, show love andrespect to others and back at
yourself, and please live withintention.
I appreciate each and everysingle one of you.
Bye-bye.