"This Is Not The End": Nina Sossamon-Pogue's Path from Olympic Aspirations to Emmy-Winning Transformation

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:01):
Hey everyone, welcome to this week's show.
Hey, stay tuned, because in afew moments you're going to hear
the story of one of the mostpowerful women I've ever spoken
with in my life.
You're going to hear from NinaSossaman Pogue.
She's a sought-after speaker, abest-selling author and a
podcast host, and her story isso extraordinary.
She started off as an eliteathlete, then went into

(00:25):
television news, then intocorporate America.
So here's a cool thing Nina lefthome at age 13 to go train with
the USA gymnastics team andduring that time she graced the
cover of magazines all over theworld, all alongside, right
alongside with Mary Lou Retton.
But unfortunately she failed tomake the Olympic team in 1984.

(00:47):
So as a young girl 16, 17 yearsold her entire identity was in
question.
So she went back to high school, picked herself up, went on to
LSU, became an elite gymnastthere.
But once again, bad news sheblew her knee out and that ended
her gymnastics career.

(01:07):
So now, at a young age ofroughly 19, again, her entire
identity was in question.
She had to ask herself who am I?
Her entire life has beendedicated to gymnastics and
that's over.
But she didn't stay down long.
She graduated and then she wenton to a 20-year career as an
Emmy Award-winning journalistand news anchor.

(01:29):
This woman's life isever-evolving and transformative
.
She went from gymnastics totelevision, to the high-tech
world and as a celebratedexecutive.
She actually navigated hercompany to go public.
This woman is a resilientpowerhouse.

(01:49):
She has conquered life'sobstacles with grace and courage
.
One question she'll ask you inthis episode is when you're
going through difficulties, whenyou're going through challenges
, who will you be on the otherside of it?
So please stay tuned.

Speaker 2 (02:08):
Hello and welcome to the Bamboo Lab podcast with your
host, peak performance coach,brian Bosley.
Are you stuck on the hamsterwheel of life, spinning and
spinning but not really movingforward?
Are you ready to jump off andsoar?
Are you finally ready to sculptyour life?
If so, you've landed in theright place.

(02:29):
This podcast is created andbroadcast just for you, all of
you strivers, thrivers andsurvivors out there.
If you'd like to learn moreabout Brian and the Bamboo Lab,
feel free to reach out toexplore your true peak level at
wwwbamboolab3.com.

Speaker 1 (02:51):
Welcome everyone to this week's episode of the
Bamboo Lab podcast.
As always, I'm your host, brianBosley, and today we have, as
you already heard in the earlierbio, we have the triple threat,
nina Sassaman-Pogan.
So Nina, my new friend, welcometo the Bamboo Lab podcast.

Speaker 3 (03:06):
Hey, Brian, thanks so much for having me.
It's a pleasure to be heretoday.
It's a pleasure man.

Speaker 1 (03:10):
I've enjoyed our conversation before we started
recording.

Speaker 3 (03:14):
Yeah you're really kind, because I was all over the
place when we were chatting, so, yeah, I'm looking forward to
sharing with your tribe there.

Speaker 1 (03:21):
Yeah, let's do it, man, you know so I've learned a
little bit about you, but if youcould just share what you want
to share about just who you areshare with the Bamboo Pack.
Hey, I'm Nina, here's who I am.

Speaker 3 (03:39):
Maybe your childhood, a little bit about you, what
inspired you to growing up, andthen we'll get into all the
amazing things you've been doingwith your life.
Yeah, I'd be happy to Hieveryone.
So right now I'm in Charleston,south Carolina.
That's where I live and I'm inmy 50s.
So if I and I'm a speaker andauthor and all those things, but
if you play my resume backwards, I was a news anchor for lots
of years.
I was a tech exec.
For lots of years I was also agymnast and a member of the US

(04:01):
gymnastics team.
I've had three kids and so partof who I am is all of those.
But if you started my childhoodand play my resume forward, it's
a lot of ups and downs.
So as a kid I grew up in NavyBrat and I found gymnastics and
I loved gymnastics.
It was kind of, you know, mysafe space, no matter where we
lived or who was around.
That's where I felt most athome home and so I moved away

(04:24):
from home.
At 13 I made the us team, whichwas a big deal uh, some of the
cover magazines and I'mtraveling all over the world
japan, hungary, germany,australia and then I don't make
the olympics in 84.
Those were the years when marylou was there.
Remember mary lou retton, ohyeah, um, yeah, so m Mary Lou
was on the team and we got toroom together some too.

(04:46):
But it's because it was Rettonand Rofi my maiden name's Rofi
it's not because we were numberone and number two.
I actually, the first year thatMary Lou won the USA
championships, I won MissCongeniality really.
So, yeah, so I'm pretty proudof that.
But yeah, she was always numberone and I was always the one.
That was not number one, buteverybody liked being around.

Speaker 1 (05:05):
That was fun but you didn't make the weedies box I
didn't make the weedies box.

Speaker 3 (05:09):
Yeah, you know, her daughter ended up going to lsu,
where I went, so we reconnectedand stuff, uh, as adults, and so
it's been fun to, you know,reconnect with her anyway, so
it's awesome.
So, yeah, so I was on the usteam.
I didn't make the Olympics Ripeold age of 16.
Had to go back to my highschool with my, you know, tail
tucked between my legs and feltlike my life was over and I was

(05:30):
embarrassed and thought I was aloser and really a difficult
time in my life.
But then I, you know, found myway forward and ended up going
and competing at LSU, which isone of the top programs in the
country, back then D1 school andthey just won the national
championships.

Speaker 1 (05:47):
Go Tigers.

Speaker 3 (05:49):
Yeah, super psyched for those girls.
It's the first time they'veever won in all the years that
LSU has been in the game.
So I competed for them and Ireally thought that I was in a
good spot, found my tribe andhappy way up on top again.
But then I blew out my knee ina gymnastics competition.
Um and uh in competition too.
So a room picture the pmac, thepete maravich assembly center,

(06:12):
full and I land and scream thef-bomb loudly many times when my
knee went out not my proudestmoment can I find that on
youtube, you think?
no, thank goodness, youtubewasn't a thing back in the well,
somebody must have recorded itno, they don't have it.
Or if they do, I've never seenit in all these years.

Speaker 1 (06:30):
I'm gonna be, I'm gonna look this afternoon.

Speaker 3 (06:32):
I'm telling you okay, good, good, if you find it
anyway.
So I blow up my knee.
Another real low moment in mylife.
I, I lost my identity.
You know I identified as anactive gymnast back then and I
think about it.
So back then it was like mybumper sticker and it was on my
sweatshirt.

(06:52):
I mean, that's how I identified.
Nowadays you have these youngpeople and it's on their
Instagram and their TikTok andtheir everything.
So losing your identity isreally difficult in those young
adult years.
Your identity is reallydifficult in those, you know,
young, young adult years.
Um, so I I went through a reallytough time there but, uh,
fortunately for me I there was acouple of people who pointed me

(07:12):
in the right direction and Iended up finding journalism and
I loved television.
I became a news anchor, areporter for a lot of years.
I did political reporting.
I started out as a sportsreporter, you can imagine, and I
did stories on the athletes atLSU kind of the minor sports
track and field and gymnasticsand volleyball and golf.

(07:32):
I did lots of stories on thatstarting off.
But then I really found my legs, got my legs under me in
journalism and became apolitical reporter, an
investigative journalist, andthen I became a news anchor and
I spent almost 20 years in news,which was a really cool time.
I mean, I've flown throughhurricanes and met presidents
and it just was a big part of mylife.

Speaker 1 (07:53):
Was this in Charleston Nina?

Speaker 3 (07:55):
I started in WBRZ of Baton Rouge first.
That was my first station andthen I moved to Charleston.
I've been in Charleston formost of that time.
Yeah, I became a news anchor.
The only place I ever anchoredwas here in charleston.
The news anchor here, uh, formany, many years, uh, and it was
back in.
It was like anchorman days.
I mean, if you picture thatmovie, I mean literally big hair

(08:17):
, big earrings.

Speaker 1 (08:18):
It's embarrassing, but fun were you kind of a big
deal?

Speaker 3 (08:22):
oh, I was kind of a big deal.

Speaker 1 (08:23):
well, I see on was kind of a big deal.
Well, I see on your website Isaw an Emmy Award, yeah, so I
had some great success there.

Speaker 3 (08:30):
Yeah, I won an Emmy for Best Newscaster in the
Southeast, but that came after.
So I'm going along doing reallygood in television.
Charleston's voted Charleston'sFavorite News Anchor seven
times in a row.
And then another big this in mylife on a Thursday I get that
award year seven of that.
And then on Friday the newsdirector calls me into his

(08:51):
office and he says um, hey, weare releasing you from your
contract without cause.
And uh, and they pull in thelittle HR girl and they packed a
box and handed it to me andwalked me out the door.
I was full, I was walking to thenews set to go cut a news brief
when it happened and it wasjust nationwide budget cuts for
the big conglomerate that ownedus and I just was in the mix and

(09:14):
so I was let go.
I remember sitting in my carthinking now what, yeah, exactly
?
I mean I just won this awardfor you.
So then I went and popped overand worked at the other TV
station in town, Because at thetime I had just gone through a
divorce, not long before that,and so I had my kids right here.
I couldn't actually jump to anew town.

(09:35):
I had my ex-husband and stuff.
I had the kids with me, we wereco-parenting.
So I went across the road andthey made me a great, great
offer and I went to work forthem and that's when I won the
Emmy for best newscaster in theSoutheast, Because you know how
motivated you are aftersomebody's done you wrong.
That was a little bit of an F?
You to the folks who let me go.

Speaker 1 (09:55):
So after you got terminated from the one news or
news television, you went to theother competitor and won the
Emmy.

Speaker 3 (10:04):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (10:04):
Fuck yeah, exactly that's.

Speaker 3 (10:05):
Fuck yeah, exactly.

Speaker 1 (10:07):
That's balling right there.
That's awesome.

Speaker 3 (10:10):
So so I did that.
So that was, that was a thingand one of those moments in my
life where I was really proudthat I had not just, you know,
gotten through that, but theyrose my game to a new level.
A little bit of a poke in theeye of those guys, yeah.
So that was a big part of mylife.
And then during that time,while I was, you know,

(10:32):
charleston's favorite newsanchor now for the ninth or
tenth time in a row and I wasbest newscaster in the Southeast
and won the Emmy for that Iwent through the hardest thing
in my life.
We'll talk more about it, but Iwent through a car accident not
a car, an accident in which Iwent from reporting the
headlines to being in theheadlines and I went through a

(10:54):
really dark time but I found myway through that and I got back
up on my feet.
And then I ended up going fromTV to tech and I had huge
success in the tech sector.
So I became a vice president atmy friend's startup and we grew
it from 250 people to 1200 andtook the company public and I
was running marketing commsduring their IPO.

(11:15):
So back and forth to New Yorkall the time on a little jet,
like a whole new chapter in mylife, and had big success.
So the long, long answer thatI've given you is my life has
been high, highs and low, lowsand it has brought me to this
moment now where I really liketo share the low lows and how I
got through them so other peoplecan make sure that whatever

(11:36):
they're going through they,whatever struggle they're going
through, there's always a fast,fast forward.

Speaker 1 (11:41):
Let's.
Yeah, I'm not even going tofollow my typical protocol with
you with my questions.
We're just going to walkthrough this man.
There's so much to unpack withyou.
I don't know if I mentionedthis already to the Pamu Pack,
but I want to share right now.
Stop for a minute.
I want to have you.
When you're done with thisepisode, please go to the show
notes, go to the bottom of theshow notes.
You're going to hear, you'regoing to see three in two or two
, her two books this Is Not theEnd Strategies to Get Through

(12:03):
the Worst Chapters of your Life,which I'm getting a free copy
of.
I heard after this podcast, soI'm happy for that, and then you
won.
Yeah, man, and the other one is,but I want both.
The Working Mom's Guide toCreating a Life she Loves.
Those were.
One was rated a 4.8 star onAmazon, the other one a 4.9.
So these are books.
You want to mention it againbefore we're done today, but I
want you to, please, I'm goingto invite you and actually kind

(12:26):
of nudge you to go look at thosebooks.
So let's go through this man.
Let's start talking about thelows, because I think so many
times, nina, when people thefeedback, as I shared with you
earlier, that I get from so manyof the Bamboo Pack subscribers
and listeners out there is theylove to hear these incredible
people that come on the show.
They want to hear that thesepeople also have gone through

(12:46):
some really dark shit in theirlives.
You know those dark days andbecause so many people tune into
this show because they'restruggling with something or
they, you know there'ssomething's holding them back.
They're the hamster on thehamster wheel, you know, and
they're trying to dig throughthat.
So if you can start unpackingsome of those lows, of the lows
you've had because you'vecertainly had a lot of highs and
I want to bring those back upagain but if you want to go

(13:07):
through whatever you share, whatyou want to share, but I'm
going to let you take the wheelfor a minute.

Speaker 3 (13:12):
Well gosh, there's a lot to go with there.
But I think, in honor of theOlympics which are just kicking
off and part of our summer hereas we record this, let's talk
about the gymnastics lows alittle bit.
I think it's really importantand I think your audience will
appreciate this too.
When I lost my sport, like itwas everything that I knew in my

(13:32):
life, I truly felt like my lifewas over, like I had wasted my
whole life in a gym, like I wasa failure At the rightful you
know as a teenager.
I was 19 when I blew a knee out.
So not only did I not make theOlympics, but then I blew my
knee out and I spent my wholelife.
I'd never been to a high schoolfootball game, I never dated,
never done anything, um, butgymnastics, um, and I say that.

(13:55):
On the other hand, I traveledthe world and all those things,
but in the high school theteenagers had I felt like I had
wasted my life and I I thinkit's really great to know now,
with all the you knowperspective that I have at that
time and I talk about this in mybook it's my favorite thing to
talk about.
It's my chapter six thinking.
It's what my daughter calls it.
She says her friends are allshe's 25.

(14:17):
So my friends are always a mess.
I have to do chapter six onthem all the time.
Yeah, so yeah, I have to dochapter six on them all the time
.
Um, but the thinking is so.
When I lost my score, I do alittle math, I make you make a
take.
I ask you to look at your lifein a timeline and, brian, you
can do this too.
Uh, you, if you turn a piece ofpaper sideways and you just
draw a line from zero to 100 andyou put 10, 20, 30, 40, 50, 60,

(14:41):
70, how you know all the way to, if you live to be 100, which
I'd like to live to be 100, butI need to drink less wine and
take better care of myself.

Speaker 1 (14:48):
That's the goal, Dude .
Ag1 is the ticket.
Ag1 and AlphaBrain, two of thegreatest products out there, I'm
a big fan.

Speaker 3 (14:59):
Yeah, yeah, I like the Golden Mind too, that other
product.
But yes, I'm all on board withall of the things.
The cold therapy.
Cold plunges yeah, yes, butanyway.
So you draw this line and thenyou can take whatever you're
dealing with now and you cantake today.
So, however many days old youare today, like drop yourself

(15:19):
onto that line of your timelineof your life and you can do a
little math and look at yourlife differently.
But put on there all your yearsyou were, did a certain career
or married to a certain personor lived in a certain place.
You could draw that out on thattimeline and when I did that I
could see um, the gymnastics.

(15:39):
When I was 19, gymnastics was 75of what I knew in life.
So of course it felt like mywhole life.
My life experience at 19 waspretty.
It was 75% gymnastics.
I've been about four years old.
I've been a gymnast.
They put me in gymnastics.
I was hyper and couldn't sitstill in dance class.

(15:59):
So all those years, 75% of mylife was gymnastics.
When I was 19 and lost my sport,picture that.
But then, if I play it forward,when I was 50 and my kids left
for college and I was in thatspace in my life, my time that
I've been in television and mytime that I've been a parent and
my time that I've been in techwas all bigger compared to

(16:21):
gymnastics and I could see thatat 50, it was 28% of my life.
Gymnastics was 28% of my life.
It wasn't my whole life, eventhough it felt like it then.
And if I lived to be 100, it'sgoing to be 15% of my life.
So I can look at it reallydifferently.
You can do the math.
Of course it felt likeeverything because my life
experience was different.
But when you lose your sport,it's really.

(16:42):
Or when you go through adivorce, you just feel like life
is never going to be the same.
And for me and I hope for yourlisteners too if you do this and
you can put yourself on a dotand even on my bad days, I will
put myself on that dot now andgo look at all that blank space
ahead.
Anything can happen in theblank space ahead.
The magic of that is the blankspace ahead.
Magic of that is the blankspace ahead.

(17:06):
You can kind of put some matharound how long these things
have gone on in your life andthen you can see the percentage
of your life it was and you canplay it forward and go look at
all the blank space ahead andthat's frigging mine.
I could do whatever I want withit.
I could go off the railstomorrow and get like a face tat
, do my hair purple and, youknow, ride across the country on
a Harley.
And that motorcycle scare me.

Speaker 1 (17:23):
And you need to, you have to send me a new headshot.

Speaker 3 (17:25):
if you do that, then yeah, yeah, it'll be a little
different, but those of you whoare, I haven't seen me and that
is not my luck, just for therecord.

Speaker 1 (17:34):
Yeah, I love that exercise.
I'm going to commit to this toyou on Friday I have a little
extra time.
I get done coaching at like1130 in the morning.
I'm going to do the chapter sixexercise.
I started doing it here but Iand I put some ideas down.
But, um, cause I'm 57.
I'm like I like the magic ofthe blank space.

Speaker 3 (17:52):
So I think I get caught.
We're the same age.
Hey wait, we're the same age,Maybe 66?

Speaker 1 (17:55):
67.

Speaker 3 (17:56):
Okay, well, I'm a little older than you.

Speaker 1 (17:59):
Well, trust me, your, your, your headshot does not
make you look older than I do.

Speaker 3 (18:03):
Trust me.
No, I'm 57 as well, so we're onthe same page.

Speaker 1 (18:06):
I'm a March 20 baby.

Speaker 3 (18:09):
Gotcha, I'm a December baby.

Speaker 1 (18:10):
Oh cool, I'm just four months older, so three
months older, so I'm sorry.

Speaker 3 (18:14):
Anyway, when you do that exercise, you can see what
your life looked like.
And then you do the math and gooh, this segment of my life was
this percentage of my life.
It really helped me withrelationships Like, oh, that
marriage wasn't a waste, it wasjust like a little percentage of
my life and I learned a lotfrom it and got these great kids
.
All good, you know, mm-hmm.

Speaker 1 (18:31):
Wow, I love that.
Should I wait to get your bookbefore I do the chapter six
exercise?

Speaker 3 (18:37):
No, you can go ahead and do it.
There's more to it, but I doprompt you with places you lived
and have all the prompts.
I actually do a workshop.
I do a lot of corporatespeaking.
Now they're like executive offsites because I'll have them
think what is your legacy?
What are you leaving behind?
Is it just what you're doing?

(19:00):
Is it who you're being?
It's a really cool concept.
You can find commonalities inthe things that you did in life.
That's how I figured out that.
Oh yeah, I've always beeneverybody's cheerleader and
helped people.
I was Miss Congeniality.

Speaker 1 (19:17):
I was.

Speaker 3 (19:17):
Miss Congeniality, I was Charleston's favorite news
anchor.
I did a bunch of nonprofit work.
It's kind of who I am.
You're like Sandra Bullock.

Speaker 1 (19:23):
Right, one of my favorite movies, by the way, I
don't know if I've ever seen it,but I know.
Okay, that's your homework forFriday.
I've got to go back and watchthat.
I'd rather do the chapter sixexercise.
Trust me, I don't want todiverge to or get you to
distract on this, but I want toask you how is it really, at 19
or 16, not making the Olympicteam devastated Go to LSU, blow

(19:43):
out your knee at 19.
I mean, I can't imagine whatthat does to you.
Like you said, you lose youridentity.

Speaker 3 (19:50):
Yeah, well, they put me in.
You have to work for theuniversity in order to keep your
scholarship back then.
So I have, and my coach wasnone too happy.
She brought in this, you know,top recruit, and then I blew out
my knee and I ended up workingin the laundry room.
I used to joke.
I still joke.
There's a chance.
There was a moment there wheremy claim to fame was going to be
I washed shaquille o'neal'sjockstrap.

(20:10):
That might have been it, butthank goodness I found a path
forward.

Speaker 1 (20:16):
Um you didn't rest on those laurels no, no so.

Speaker 3 (20:20):
But I worked in the laundry room and, um, you know,
back then I mean I had, I was ina wheelchair for a few days and
then I had this big thing on myleg and I'm crutching around
and I would work in the laundryroom.
You know how to get up and goto therapy.
I would take my two Percocetswith a shot of Jaeger.
I was just in a bad spot.
I was not a happy camper, Ididn't have all the great
choices I'm not going to pretendthat I made all the best

(20:48):
choices in life that space in mybrain and I went through a
tough time there and I wasreally fortunate.
One day I was doing laundry andI would put, you know, change
it all out and and this wasunder the stadium and then I'd
walk out of this laundry roomand I'd lean up against the wall
and kind of lean my crutches upagainst the wall and sit in the
sunshine and all the otherathletes are walking to practice

(21:10):
and going back and forth and,um, you know, nobody really
talks to you because you're kindof the example of what could
happen.
So it's not that you're a leper, but it's not like I was and I
wasn't real approachable either.
I was pretty grumpy at the timebut I was always alone in that
space and I had this onecounselor who was an academic
counselor.
Um, they didn't have mentalhealth counselors back then.
You just were left out to takecare of yourself.

(21:30):
Oh yeah, but this one guy cameby every once in a while and he
would say, hey, how you doing?
And I would say somethingsnarky like great, can't you
tell Best day ever?
You know, because that's me.
And then one day he actuallysat down and we started chatting
and he would stop every once ina while and talk with me.
And then he said what are yougoing to do?

(21:51):
What do you think life's goingto look like after this?
What else do you want to do?
And I had had no thoughts ofthat.
I hadn't thought that at all.
All I'd been thinking about washow pissed I was at where I was
and how I ruined my whole life.
I'd all thinking in the past,which is, you know, that's where
depression lives, and I hadn'tthought about the future at all.
And so he got me thinking aboutthe future and he encouraged me
to work for sports informationinstead of the laundry room and

(22:13):
try to get in there.
And then I found my way totelevision and found my path
forward.
So, but I went through a reallytough time trying to figure out
not just the physical.
I mean, I can remember being ina little harness thing.
They put you at and they putyou in a swimming pool and they
put you in a harness and you tryto walk and like, put your feet
down and use that leg again.

(22:33):
My leg was mangled.
It was my third surgery, therewas not much left to fix in
there Took stuff out of my ankleand they put screws in and
stuff, which, of course, laterin life, I did triathlons on,
which I just think is funny now.
But back then they put you inthe swimming pool and they try
to get you to start walking andI think it's one of those
universe speaking to me moments,and I think it's one of those

(22:54):
universe speaking to me moments.
They had drained the pool thenight before and they were just
filling it back up and I'm doingthis exercise and my foot
touched the bottom, and so I hadthis moment where my foot
touched the bottom and I couldfeel like the muscles twitch and
I was like, oh, I'm going to beable to walk again, I'm going
to be okay, and that was anotherturning point.

(23:14):
But, yeah, going through that,you really have to figure out
who you're going to be on theother side of it, and and and it
took that person having, youknow, taking a moment to talk to
me every once in a while, andit took myself touching my foot
down and realizing that leg wasgoing to work again, and you
know a few other things thathappened in my life to get me to
move forward, because I wentstraight to trying to make up

(23:37):
for lost time and all the otherbad decisions.
I like to say I graduated fromLSU in booze and boys.

Speaker 1 (23:44):
That was my degree.

Speaker 3 (23:46):
That was my degree booze and boys.
I had three more years to gothrough, which took four.
I was on the five-year plan toget out of LSU.
It took me a little while I'm asix-year veteran of college.

Speaker 1 (23:59):
I think it was five and a half actually.
What was your degree in?

Speaker 3 (24:04):
Journal studies.
That's what it says on thepiece of paper, something like
that.
I went into journalism but itwas going to be another.
I didn't have the credits to goover to get a journalism degree
, so was going to be another.
I didn't have the credits to goover to get a journalism degree
.
So I did the whole line, thewhole track to communications
and journalism, but I didn'thave money.
If I didn't have scholarship, Icouldn't go to college.

(24:24):
So I ended up getting out witha general college degree, but I
already had an internship at theTV station, so it was not a
true journalism degree, though.
It's just general studies withthe with the in parentheses.

Speaker 1 (24:38):
There it says communications, yeah so having
that internship, that's what yougot you into journalism and
television correct.

Speaker 3 (24:45):
Yeah, I had internship and it was because I
knew all the athletes and Icould tell other stories and
they liked me again.
I was likable and so I becamethe go-to in the newsroom to do
all the other stories and youknow, obviously in Baton Rouge
LSU athletics is a big part ofthe sports department, um, and
what they're doing each night.
So I found my way in that way.

Speaker 1 (25:04):
So how long did it take before your identity began
to shift from you know gymnastto then obviously being injured
and not being a gymnast anylonger, to being a news anchor?
When did that?
When did you start noticingshift Like my identity has re.
I've reclaimed a new identity.

Speaker 3 (25:18):
I think it was about three years.
It wasn't quick.
So I I always tell everybodyit's okay to not be okay, it's
just not okay to stay that way.
That's one of my biggestmantras, I think it took me
about and I was in college.
I was still figuring out who Iwas, and that's a great place to
figure out who your identity is.
I found like-minded people andI went in different directions.

(25:38):
I got into bodybuilding.
I got really into trainingreally heavy and health and
fitness in college, because itwas new and different.
I taught aerobics and I coachedsome gymnastics and I got big
into bodybuilding.
That became this.
That became this new thing Iwas really focused on.
And then journalism reallybecame.

(26:00):
As soon as I stepped in thenewsroom and felt the energy of
the newsroom, I was like this isme, I'm all in on this.
I just knew it in a minute.
Yeah, I do sometimes joke thatif Cirque du Soleil had been
around back then I'm not sure itwasn't a thing I think I would
still be like the old lady intights trying to do things jump
on trampolines.

Speaker 1 (26:18):
Hey, it's not too late.
A lot of blank space.
That's right, a lot of blankspace, my friend.

Speaker 3 (26:23):
After I get that face tat, I'm going to go out to
Cirque du Soleil and try it out.

Speaker 1 (26:27):
Go back to Percocet and Jagermeister.

Speaker 3 (26:30):
No, never do that one again.

Speaker 1 (26:32):
My son will like to hear that.
My son, that's kind of what helikes to drink.
He's in college.
He'll drink some Jägermeistersometimes and I'm like dude, I
don't.
That stuff tastes like poisonto me.

Speaker 3 (26:42):
It does now I don't know what like.
I would never drink that again.
It tastes like alcohol,licorice medicine, licoricey
alcohol medicine.

Speaker 1 (26:59):
Like it's not.
It's not doesn't taste likefood product.

Speaker 3 (27:01):
I don't like medicine or licorice, so I don't know,
I'd want to drink anything.
I think it's a rite of passagefor people, though.
I drank yager last night.
I haven't done it since college, so there's that.

Speaker 1 (27:06):
So that was obviously the.
The gymnastics experience was,I mean, the, obviously when you
had not, when you didn't makethe team, and then when you got
your, when you blew your kneeout.
Those were your low points ofthat.
And then talk let's talk about,like as your, your, your next
phase of your as being a newsanchor and, uh, obviously very
well acclaimed news anchor,reporter, journalist um, how,

(27:28):
what was that like?
What were some things you wentthrough during that period of
your life?

Speaker 3 (27:31):
yeah.
So I loved television.
I love telling other people'sstories.
I love meeting people.
I think everybody has a story.
I'm one of those people that canfind the good in whatever I'm
reporting on.
I took it very seriously.
If I'm going to have to tellyou bad news, I want to be the
one to bring it to you and breakit to you in a way that's fair,
balanced and accurate and withsome kindness.
I really love that space.

(27:52):
But then in my 30s I was doinggreat in it.
I had these two beautifulchildren at home.
I'm in a.
Well, I was Charleston'sfavorite news anchor.
When you saw a picture of meyou would think I was pretty
much perfect and living theperfect life.
It's pretty and I had a goodjob and I had a handsome husband
, all the things.
But then in my 30s I wentthrough this downward spiral

(28:14):
where my marriage fell apart, Ilost my job and my dog died.
It was like a bad country song.
You know it was like a standard.
I call it a bad country song.
My marriage fell apart, I lostmy dog.

Speaker 1 (28:27):
That's a trifecta.
That's like a perfect storm ofbad shit happening.

Speaker 3 (28:31):
It was, and I call it .
My life became a country song.
My marriage fell apart, I lostmy job and then my dog died.
And those things happened allwithin the same year.
It just was this downwardflippity-floppity down into the
depths again and I had to figureout who.
I was fortunate.

(28:51):
After I was let go.
I told you that story.
I sat in the car for a long timeafter they packed my box and
said you're done, and I didn'tknow.
It was one of those now whatmoments I call them.
I didn't know what to do, likeI couldn't go home because my
sitter was there with the kidsand I wasn't ready to talk to
her or the kids deal with that,and I couldn't go out anywhere.

(29:14):
I was full of makeup and hair.
People would be like why aren'tyou on the news, nina?
And back then everybody watchedthe news.
It wasn't in your pocket.
Everybody tuned in at 6 o'clockso I couldn't go anywhere and I
went, drove past my parentslived in town.
I drove past their house.
They weren't home and I went inmy mom's closet and I got a
pair of sneakers because I hadheels with heels.

(29:35):
I got a pair of sneakers whichwere size too small and I
squeezed my feet in those and Iwent and walked along the beach.
I live in Charleston, thankgoodness, and my happy spot has
always been near water, so Iwalked along that beach in my
suit, with my mom's shoes on.
It's kind of funny to thinkabout now, trying to figure out,
like how did I get here, what'snext, like what am I doing with

(30:00):
my life?
And I finally, you know, wenthome, dealt with things, and
then I got to a point where theymade me a deal and I had six
months, as long as I said nicethings and I didn't say that
they let me go, that it was no,it was, we both had agreed to it
.
They didn't want it out in thepress that I had been terminated
.
They just said we're going tosay we parted ways amicably or

(30:22):
whatever, and they would pay memy full fee, my full salary, for
six months.
And I was like I'm just goingto take the six months.
And so one of the things that Idid to get through that is I
spent six months playing with mykids on the beach and being the
mom that I wanted to be andbeing a very different person

(30:43):
than I had been in my verydriven years doing television
and living life and figured outwho I was, and I think that's
probably the first time in mylife that I really looked at is
it what I'm doing or who I'mbeing?
That concept of it's not whatyou do, it's who you're going to
be, and I said I just want tobe this person.
This is the mom I want to be,this is the friend I want to be.
This is the person I want to be, and I wanted to be successful.
Don't get me wrong.
There was not a part of me thatdidn't want to be successful in

(31:05):
there too.
Um, letting all unicorns andrainbows.
I wanted to work, um, and makesomething.
And that's when I, you know,realized I really loved
television and I wanted to getback in it, no matter what,
because I'd spent years figuringout how to do it.
I was good at it.
But that phase through there andI have a framework that I share

(31:25):
with folks when they're goingthrough a tough time now that I
created much later in my 50s,and I can look back at all these
things and look back on allthese things but one of the
pieces of it I learned in thattimeframe in those 30s, when
going through all those things,was this first the timeline
piece, and what exactly am Idealing with now?
But the people like who do Ineed to pull into my life, who
needs to be different than whathas been in the past, like who's

(31:49):
helping and who's hurting, andhow am I going to do that?
Moving forward, you can't go byyourself.
You got to figure that out, thekind of person and parent and
all those things you want to be.
And then I was like, what isthe story I'm telling myself?
Because I was back to saying Iwas a failure and a loser, like
I was when I was 16.
And here I was not a failure ora loser.

(32:11):
I was successful.
Two weeks ago, like actually twohours ago, I felt very
successful, right, like, right,you know, I'm still the same
person I was then, and so I usedthat time to go wait a minute,
I still was an elite athlete andwas an award-winning journalist
at the time and I had these twogreat kids and all these other
things I could look at and golook, I'm not a failure, I'm

(32:34):
just failing.
Right now I'm not a failure.
So I had to change the languagein my head.
But that was a tough time to gothrough and I did decide.
During that time I went sat andmade lists, like so many others
to do, and went what am I goodat?
What do I like?
Why do I like this?
What don't I want to do?
And that's when I realized Ireally like television.
I like news.
I wanted to get back into it,so I made the decision to do so.

Speaker 1 (32:58):
I love that statement .
I'm not a failure, I'm justfailing right now.

Speaker 3 (33:03):
Yeah, I think I just said that on your show for the
first time.
I just wrote it down when Isaid it.
I'm like that was good.

Speaker 1 (33:08):
No, it's your quote, not mine, but I'm going to use
it again.
I will definitely give youprops for it whenever I use it.
I love that Because I think alot of us I know myself included
at times when things aren'tgoing well, I'm making mistakes,
I'm doing stupid things or, youknow the business might be, I
might lose a client or do a badshow.
I go, I'm hard on myself insideI don't talk about it openly,

(33:30):
but I'm hard and I start goingdown that deep rabbit hole, a
dark rabbit hole of oh, maybeI'm a failure in life.
You know, maybe I'm never goingto be.
You know I'll never be the manI want to be.
But really it's like no, I likethat Right at this moment.
I failed at something, but I'mnot a failure.

Speaker 3 (33:42):
Keep it that simple, yeah and 100%.
I'm going to use that over andover.
I really like that.
It came out of my moutheralizethat's one way like this always
happens to me.
You know that's not healthy.
Or we catastrophize.
This is never going to work.
Everything's ruined.
That kind of like that'shorrible language.
The words in your head come outof your mouth and that becomes

(34:04):
your frigging story.
You know, or we exaggerate.
I got a million things to do.
I got this is you know so manymiles to go and we just got to
get ourselves out of, out ofthat language.
Or we the other pieces of thelabor, piece of the
self-sabotage, like if I'd onlydone this, if I'd have married
that guy, if I'd have done thisdifferent, if I had chosen a
different career, if I hadn'tgone to work that day, or

(34:25):
something.
You know we, we do thatself-sabotage so dangerous.

Speaker 1 (34:48):
Well, and I think we look at failure as a negative,
and I have a really good story.
I was privileged to be part ofa team when I got out of college
.
I worked for American ExpressFinancial Advisors and I was a
couple of really good friends ofmine.
We were financial advisors.
I think he's the wealthiest manin Detroit now.
He's just a really incrediblyintelligent guy.
He got his master's degree fromHarvard in 10 weeks through an
executive crash program and wewere working for him and just a
genius of a guy.
And we were at Monterey,california.

(35:08):
We were at a leadershipconference.
This is back in the earlymid-90s and we were at this
buffet table and John was a time.
I think he was like 35 yearsold, maybe 33.
And he was a division vicepresident, group vice president.
There were probably about 30 ofthem around the world at a high
level at American Express andhe was by far the youngest by
far.
Sometimes he was half the ageof the other people who his

(35:29):
peers were.
But our group, our divisionthat he was in charge of, was
doing twice as much in sales asnumber two was, so we were by
far the superstars in thecompany.
His team was led by him maybe500 people or maybe a thousand
people, I'm not sure, but anywaypeople didn't like him because
he was young, good looking,brass, highly intelligent.

(35:50):
He was a technical genius forsure, and by far the most
successful.
And we were at this table or atthis buffet and I was kind of
two people from him as we weregetting our food and somebody
said Mr Hans, because we made alot of mistakes in our group, we
were the Detroit region, whichwas Toledo.
It was a big group of people orbig bunch of cities, but that
was his division.
And he said I see, you crashedsome planes this year, you know

(36:11):
like made some mistakes.
And john stopped for a minute,he paused and he said, yeah, I
don't forget who.
The other guy was an older guy.
And he said, yeah, I did, but Icrashed planes.
You don't have the fuckingballs to fly and I'm like man
and everybody.
Everybody just stopped and itwas like everybody was didn't
know how.
The guy was red in the face, hecouldn't respond.

(36:32):
It was like then we just gotour food and kept going and I'll
never forget that moment and ittaught me a valuable lesson.
I don't even know if we spokeabout it afterward, but that
that's perfectly statedperfectly perfectly, that is
epic.

Speaker 3 (36:43):
I love that story so yeah, and I'm big, I'm gonna
fail fast.
Keep trying things.
You know we you're gonna regretus as a bitch, you don't you
don't want to live life and havethat.
You know, that's the one I willnever have.
I will always go out and tryand do and yeah dude, you have
got me writing down so manyquotes here.

Speaker 1 (37:02):
Regret as a bitch that sounds like a good book
title.

Speaker 3 (37:07):
That's your next book regret as a bitch make regret
your bitch, make regret yourbitch yeah oh my gosh, I can't
believe that we went down thatroad I liked it.

Speaker 1 (37:18):
I know we I liked at the beginning of the show,
before we started recording,that we both said the f word
yeah, well, I wasn't.

Speaker 3 (37:24):
I'm really careful when I'm on podcasts and when
I'm doing things and I nevercurse from the stage no but yeah
, I do have a bit of a you know,a penchant to curse a lot.
My kids will, my friends arecoming over.
Can you not drop the F-bomb inthe first five minutes?
That's awesome.

Speaker 1 (37:40):
They're teaching you, they're scolding you for
cursing.

Speaker 3 (37:42):
Yeah, they're all in there.
No, they used to in their highschool.
Now they don't care, they don'tcare, they're like Mom, it's
not.
But when they were in high,school they thought, wow, who's
that?

Speaker 1 (37:58):
So you've gone through some dark periods.
I mean it's so amazing and Iwant the audience to hear that.
I want that person out therelistening right now who's going
through something troubling,going down that dark rabbit hole
.
I want you to really payattention to Nina's story
because I mean, obviously thesuccesses are there.
Attention to Nina's storybecause I mean, obviously the

(38:18):
successes are there.
The successes make the website,but it's the struggles and the
tragedies and some of the majorchallenges she's gone through
that have made her successes somuch more glorious and so much
more exponential.
What would you say and this isa question I know you've gone
what would be one of the biggestchallenges, nina, that you've
ever gone through in your life?
And then how did you overcomeit?

(38:39):
Is it one of the things we'vetalked about so far?

Speaker 3 (38:42):
No, actually my biggest challenge is one I don't
always talk about openly.
Obviously, I've written a wholebook on it, but when you read,
this Is Not the End.
It is about my biggestchallenge.
I talk about my five big thises.
Whatever I use the word this,as in whatever you're going
through, so my thises, because Idon't know, I don't know what
anyone listening or what you arefacing as a challenge, but it's

(39:05):
your thing.
This thing that you're dealingwith is your this.
So my biggest this, as I call it, was not not making the Olympic
team or blowing out my knee ordivorce or getting fired any of
those.
It was not not making theOlympic team or blowing out my
knee or divorce or getting firedany of those.
My biggest this happened when Iwas 37 and I was a very popular
news anchor and I went throughthis really traumatic experience
that just changed me as a humanand made me not sure if I

(39:27):
wanted to go on.
And I don't always share it,but you know you and I talk a
little bit beforehand and I willshare it here because this is
the type of podcast and thegroup your tribe.
Wait, you don't call it a tribe.
What do you call your people?
Again?

Speaker 1 (39:40):
Family pack yeah.

Speaker 3 (39:41):
Family pack.
I think it'd be, a tribe.
I went to LSU.
I went to LSU.
We're always a crew Crew, okay,yeah, with a K.
Anyway, my biggest struggle Ithink your audience, your pack,
would appreciate to hear,because I think everybody goes
through tough times and that'swhy people tune in here.

(40:02):
So I was, and it can betriggering.
I'll just give you a littletrigger warning for anybody who
has some PTSD or aroundaccidents of children and things
.
So I was 37.
As I mentioned, I had threeyoung kids at home, popular news
anchor, and I had decided thaton this day I wanted to be like
all the other moms and just pickmy kids up from the bus stop

(40:23):
because I never got to do thenormal things, and so I took the
afternoon off.
I drove over to the bus stopbecause we were going to run
some errands afterwards and thebus came into my neighborhood
down the street at my bestfriend's house.
One of my best friend's house,my co-anchor's wife so my
co-anchor lived in the samecommunity I had in a big
suburban neighborhood inCharleston, south Carolina, and

(40:46):
so they lived right down theroads and his wife and I were
friends.
So I drove over there, parkedin their driveway and spent time
with her before the bus gotthere, because they had a new
baby and we were playing with anew baby.
Then the bus comes and comesaround the corner and kind of
like you can imagine in a suburbon a beautiful fall day you
kind of hear the kids beforethey even got off the bus.

(41:07):
But then you know they openedthe doors, opened the bus.
The kids crawl out, you know,pile out like ants.
Our boys throw their backpacksand they were in the first grade
together and they're runningaround and playing and you know
lots of moms and kids andsiblings there at this crowded
bus stop.
And then it comes time to go andlike, hey, we got to run some
errands.
Grab this backpack, jump in thecar and I'm, you know, buckling

(41:29):
my son in how was your day?
What's going on?
And then I go to to leave, andthen in that hustle and bustle
of a crowded bus stop on agorgeous day, with all those
people, no one had noticed thatmy friend's baby, who was 11
months, had crawled under my carand I backed up and in that

(41:49):
moment my whole world changed,obviously.
Um, he survived and I'll tellyou he's in college and he's
okay.
So, yeah, so this has been.
We're coming up on 20 years agonow, but it's been what?
17, 18 years now, more thanthat, coming up on 20.
So, and I didn't write my bookuntil 15 years after this

(42:12):
happened.
But in that moment the tire hithis skull and so in that moment,
in the days and weeks thatfollowed, we weren't sure if he
was going to make it, and so Iwent to a really dark place in
my head and thought this is whoI am for the rest of my life is
I'm the lady who injured thebaby, or, worse, the one who,

(42:35):
you know, killed a baby.
And I thought this is who I amNow again, he lived.
So that did not become the case, but he could have very easily.
It was a million littlemiracles that saved him.
So he ended up getting out ofhospital in a few weeks.
His mom and I held hands andwalked down the hall of that
hospital and said we're going toget through this together.
Obviously, his dad and I weren'tback, didn't go on the air for

(42:57):
weeks.
The morning show people had todo the news.
There were news trucks on myfront lawn.
There were prayer vigils allover the town.
It was a traumatic experiencefor our whole community.
But then he got out.
He got better, we went back onthe air, the world went on to
other stories and the world keptturning.

(43:18):
But I had a really difficulttime.
This is not just my story totell.
Obviously, they have their ownexperience with this, so I don't
always tell it.
But I had a difficult time memy part of it with trying to
figure out who is this newperson that I am, because I
didn't want this to be me.
I didn't want this to be partof my story.
I just wanted to be everybody'sfavorite news anchor and the

(43:39):
world-class athlete with cutekids.
That's all I wanted to be.
I didn't want this to be partof me and I didn't see a way
forward in which this was goingto be okay to be part of me.
And so I would have thissuicidal ideation all the time.
I'd want to step into trafficBefore I went back on the air.
I remember standing in front ofthe mirror.
It was the day I was supposedto go back on the air.

(43:59):
After a few weeks he was out ofthe hospital, everything was
doing better and I told myco-anchor.
He and I met.
We sat on the end of his dockand I said I'll go back on first
.
You spend some more time withyour family.
When you're ready, you comeback.
And so that was our plan.
And it was the day I wassupposed to go back on the air
and I stood there in front of mymirror and I grabbed my
husband's razor I had justgotten remarried right before

(44:21):
this had happened and I grabbedthe razor and I thought, if I
just slice up my face, then Iwon't be pretty and they won't
want me on TV.
And then I thought like yeah,or I could just be done with
this all.
And I'm looking at the bathtuband I was like whoa, whoa, whoa.
And I realized how crazy thesethoughts were in my head and I

(44:42):
did what my therapist I had agood therapist at the time told
me to do I put down the razorand I called him and he's like
whoa, we have a plan.
You've got to trust me this isnot going to be the headline
forever.
You got to trust me that life'sgoing to be okay on the other
side of it.
Stick to the plan, stick to thescript, go back on.
You know, I my our plan was Iwould go back on the air for one
year and then decide if Iwanted to keep doing this and

(45:03):
decide what life looked like oneyear.
We set a one year target andall the things planned out, so I
did that and I sat down therazor and I was fine.
The world saw what it lookedlike to lead with love and go
through an experience like thatand all get through it together.
This little guy went on toelementary and then high school

(45:23):
and then college and had anamazing life.

Speaker 1 (45:28):
What's his first name ?

Speaker 3 (45:29):
His name's Sam.
I talk about him in my book Sam.

Speaker 1 (45:32):
Hey, Sam, this one goes out to you, brother.
Now go change the world.

Speaker 3 (45:36):
He is.

Speaker 1 (45:37):
He's an amazing human .

Speaker 3 (45:38):
He is going to change the world.

Speaker 1 (45:39):
I'm happy to hear that.

Speaker 3 (45:40):
Got great stuff going on, wow, yeah, so.
So this became obviouslychanged all of our lives, um, um
, and I share it because, ashorrible as it sounds, I think
it's important because there'speople who feel like they're

(46:02):
never going to be on the otherside of something, especially
with someone.
Everything's so public.
Now, mine was very public pain.
I call it public pain.
But now, with everything onsocial media and everything out
there, everything's public pain.
Everybody knows all yourbusiness.
It's very hard to do somethingin private.
So this concept of public painyou feel like it's always going
to be a part of you and who youare.
By the time I worked in tech,I'll tell you this wasn't even

(46:23):
part of the story.
Half of our technology companyhad come in from other parts of
the country.
They didn't know anything aboutthat when I was working with
them.
They just knew that I was, youknow, a vice president of the
company and I worked hard and Iwas doing my thing and nothing
could faze me.
Obviously, nothing could fazeme because I'd gone through
something so tough.
Like you bring it, I got you.
Um, that's what I was known for.
I was known for being thatperson.
Um, I wasn't known for this.

(46:46):
But at the time I couldn'timagine my life one ever being
happy again or feeling joy,especially in the weeks and
months that followed.
I couldn't ever imagine thatbecause I was so numb.
Your body goes through theseweird phases of grief and
numbness, and then I couldn'timagine anybody looking at me
differently, like going back onthe air and being anything but
that.
But within a few months thatstory was long gone.

(47:07):
Everybody was back to.
I won Charleston's favoritenews anchor the next year.
Oh shit, yeah, for the next twoyears.
That next year and then theyear when I was off the air and
I wasn't even doing the newsanymore.
I wanted that year too, afterI'd left for tech.
So people don't realize whenyou're really gone.
I've just been there so long.
People voted for me, so that'swhat they remember me for, who I

(47:29):
was and for how I've done thenews for those years and all my
nonprofit work and all the otherthings in my life.
But I share the story becauseit's just really difficult when
you're in the middle ofsomething to think that life
will ever be okay again.
You won't be the same, I willtell you.
If you're going throughsomething and you're listening,
you won't be the same on theother side of it, you will be
different.
That's what resilience is.

(47:50):
That's what resilience is.
You will adapt in a positiveway somehow, and you will be
different on the other side.

Speaker 1 (47:59):
But the new, you can be even better if you choose for
it to be.
Nina, can I ask you a question?
I think of this often and youmade a really good point Earlier
.
You said who will I be on theother side of this?
And then you just now said youwill be different.
Do you think in a lot of cases,we have the choice?
And I think when COVID hit,when we found out everything was
shutting down, I called all myclients and I told my son the
same thing Nobody will be thesame after this is all over.

(48:20):
We will either be stronger orwe'll be weaker, and the choice
is ours.
It's how we handle thesituation.
Do you think we have thatchoice to decide if we're going
to be stronger or weaker, betteror worse after something?

Speaker 3 (48:30):
Absolutely.
Yep, that is up to you how youhandle that is what resilience
is.
It's it's your ability to adaptin a positive way to the things
that happen in your life.
I say it's your ability toadapt in a positive way to this.
Whatever this is that you'redealing with, and it's and it's
your ability and it's a learnedresponse and that's why I you
know I put together thisframework.

(48:51):
It's taken me years to come upwith this.
I I call it my resilience routenavigator, kind of this GPS
that you can tap into whenyou're going along on the path
and all of a sudden, you have torecalculate your route.
This is my framework for that,but you absolutely, I 100% agree
with you.
You have a choice of how you'regoing to come out on the other

(49:11):
side.

Speaker 1 (49:12):
So it's your ability to adapt in a positive way to
this.

Speaker 3 (49:16):
To learn.
Yeah, so the definition ofresilience that I lean into in
all my research and my writingis your ability, a person's
ability to learn, grow stronger,learn, grow stronger and adapt
in a positive way to whateverhappens.
And so I spend a lot of timethinking about, well, what the
frick does that mean?
Adapt in a positive way, like?
Somebody explained that to me.

(49:36):
So that's what right?
Like, just throw that out there, what does that mean?
So I spent a lot of time, youknow, is it stoicism?
Is it neuroscience?
Is it behavioral therapy, likecognitive behavior therapy?
How am I supposed to adapt in apositive way?
So that's what my books and myspeeches are around, like, how
do you do that?
But yes, you have a hundredpercent, it's in your power.

(50:01):
It's in your power to come outon the other side and be
whatever, whatever the hell youwant to be, you can say it.
I was trying to behave youalmost.
I caught the.

Speaker 1 (50:09):
I caught the so you said stoicism.
Are you a fan of stoicism?

Speaker 3 (50:20):
Oh, big fan, I'm a big ryan holiday.
There you go, I wear.
I wear a quote by marcusrelease around my neck, really
the amor fati and I wear it.
He and emerson I'm a bigemerson fan too.
What lies behind you and whatlies before you are tiny matters
compared to what lies withinyou.
Um, yeah, a a big Emerson fan,big Ryan Holiday fan.

Speaker 1 (50:36):
I am too, but the Obstacle is the Way.
I think I've read it five orsix times.
And, of course, the Daily Stoic, his daily affirmations book.
I've read that.
I mean this is the first year Ichanged it over to a Gay
Hendricks who's a big fan of hiswork the Big Leap and he was on
the podcast a couple of yearsago and his book is your Big
Leap and he was on the podcast acouple of years ago and his
book is your Big Leap Year.

(50:56):
So it's a daily workout book.
I've changed over this yearfrom the Daily Stoic to that,
but I think I read the DailyStoic like five years in a row,
every day.
I love that material.
When I read the Obstacle is theWay the first time it stunned
me, I was like this is fuckingamazing.
It's so well done.

Speaker 3 (51:15):
It's so well done.
It's so that I had all four ofhis books on my shelf and his
daily.
I get his newsletter every dayand I'm a fan.
I mentioned him in my book.
I actually do.
I do a segment on tattoos and II mentioned I mentioned Ryan
holiday because there's stoicismtoo, but I have a segment in
there about tattoos.
And I, but I have a segment inthere about tattoos and I

(51:38):
mentioned him having certaintattoos Are you pro-tattoo.
I am tattoo agnostic.
My friend, I'm tattoo agnostic.
You want to hear my tattoostory?
I do.
You can edit this piece out.

Speaker 1 (51:44):
I don't edit anything out, oh okay.
Nothing gets edited.

Speaker 3 (51:48):
It's in the book.
I mean there's a section ontattoos in there.
And I like to say we startedthis thing when my kids were
little, um, and we would go tothe beach and at the beach you
kind of see everybody's artwork,uh, and then on the way home
from the beach I would go.
They would tiny, they could belike first grade, and then they
were their whole lives, althoughon the way drive home from the
beach is like 20 minutes for us,maybe half an hour if there's

(52:10):
traffic, and so on the way homeI'd go okay, today's the day
we're all going to get tattoos,what are you getting?
And then they'd all have tocome up with something.
And my daughter I remember mydaughter going my little pony,
and at one point my son wantedto do this whole minecraft up
his leg.
He actually designed it once,um, and you know then an
infinity sign.
And my other son, my middle son, pie, and then I'm gonna have

(52:31):
the whole, all the like as manynumbers that I can have all the
way down, like we had all thesefun things throughout their
lives of all the differenttattoos they had.
My son who had Tommy John'ssurgery.
He was a baseball player, evenin college.
After, after his surgery, he'slike I'm going to have a tattoo
where I put flames of my armOnce I start, you know, throwing
a hundred again, and so it'salways been a thing, but no one

(52:52):
had ever gotten a tattoo becauseI would remind them.
Okay, if you had gotten thatthat's what you love so much,
right, then you're willing toput it on your body.
That would still be on yourbody and you've got so like.
I believe life is full ofchapters and change and you can
decide who you're going to be.
I don't want anything on mybody that's going to define who

(53:12):
I am right now, because I maynot want to be this person in
the future.
I may want to be a differentversion of me, and so good or
bad, you know.
So I would always tell my kidsthat, like, just think you would
have my daughter, would havelike my little pony, and then a
heart and then an infinity signand then her best friend's name,
who's not her best friendanymore.
She hasn't spoke to that girlin 10 years, all the things.
So, anyway, that's my tattoo.

(53:34):
And then I mentioned RyanHoliday has his book up one of
his arms and, in Obstacles theWay and one of the other books
up the other arm and I'm likehe's so young I guess I'm older
than he is I'm like he's goingto run out of space.
That boy needs to stop writing.
He needs a smaller font.
If he's going to do this, heneeds to choose a smaller font.
He says he's going to run outof space to put all his books on

(53:55):
his body.

Speaker 1 (53:56):
Yeah, I have a tattoo , I got a tattoo.
So actually, my best friendfrom college, we, when we he
just actually he and his wifevisited last night, they left.
I told you.
They left this morning and heand I went in when we were in
college we were both playingrugby and at the time rugby was

(54:22):
our thing.
You know that we are justdiehard rugby.
Uh, you know fanatics and um,we both got a rugby tattoo.
He got Andy Kapp, um and what'sthe our team name on it.
And then I got another, just arugby player that a friend of
mine had designed and drawn.
And the weird thing is we leftand about a week later maybe not
even that all the ink from thattattoo.
This was back in the day.
This was in the height of theaids crisis and we went to a guy
who we paid to have him do ourtattoos in his house.
We didn't know him.
I said, well, what do?

Speaker 3 (54:41):
he goes go to the store.

Speaker 1 (54:42):
All of this sounds bad it's all bad, thank you, we
survived this.
But he didn't even change theink from one person, the other
or the thing he just dipped inalcohol.
We watched him and we didn'tthink anything.
I mean how I paid the guy.
I said so what do we owe you?
Go up to the store and get myold lady a half gallon of vodka,
that'd be good.
That's how we paid the guy.

(55:03):
But anyway, the the ink wasfaulty and it rose to the
surface and just peeled off.
So we had to go back in and getour tattoos redone on the open
scar tissue wound of theoriginal one and it hurt like
hell.
It hurt like hell.
That's commitment, right, it'scommitment.
I wanted that tattoo, so I stillhave it.

(55:24):
It's getting faded now.
Now my daughter has on herwrist.
I always told her when she wasyounger remember who you are.
And so every letter, um,everything was r-W-Y-A.
You know when I wrote herletters and stuff.
So she has R-W-Y-A on her wrist.
Now my son, dawson, he lovesthe tattoos, he's got some
tattoos on his arm and he's afighter, he's a boxer, he's a

(55:44):
black belt in karate.
So he has that.
You know he's got some stuff.
But everything I tell them youcan get tattoos, but they have
to mean something.
You can't just go picksomething out of a book and say
I want that drawing.

Speaker 3 (55:54):
No, they have to mean something, to symbolize
something well, you know, that'sa very on brand for your son to
have tattoos.
So mine never got any until myson got married uh, my oldest uh
and he and his wife got littlematching tattoos, so that's kind
of cool, um, but I and I thinkyou know, know, and she's so

(56:14):
funny, she has other artwork andshe's one that doesn't have to
mean anything, she just thinksit's pretty and wants to put it
on her body.
I'm like that's fine too, Iguess, for some people.
But I was on the same vein asyou for my children.
I think my biggest thing was,until they were out of college,
I said I don't want anything todefine you.
I want you to decide who youwant to be, and that's what
college is for.

(56:35):
I don't want you to putanything on your body.
I actually need to deal withthem.
No ink on your body and nobabies, no pregnancy, and I will
pay for college every freakingpenny of it.
So they did.
They got out and they knew thatwas part of the deal.
I probably would have smudgedand done it anyway because I
wanted them to have an education, but that was the deal and they

(56:56):
took me seriously because Ijust wanted and it wasn't
anything pro or con for otherpeople who take other routes,
but for my guys, who I know verywell and how smart they are and
how driven they are, andthey're my kids, unfortunately
they're a lot like me andfortunately and unfortunately,
but Um and and, unfortunatelyand unfortunately.
But I just wanted them to havea clean slate when they got out

(57:16):
of college.
I wanted them to be able to goto college and have to be
whoever they wanted to be,without any commitment to
anything, cause once you writesomething on your body, you kind
of you're that guy, you're theone that you're committed to
that thing.
And I just wanted them to havea clean slate.
And, uh, now, you know they,they are all very different.
My, you know, they are all verydifferent.
My daughter's an AI in New York.
My son's fourth year med school.
My other son's in the Air Force.
He is out in Tinker Air ForceBase.

(57:39):
He's doing his thing out there.
So I just wanted them to have aclean slate.
That was my thing with tattoos,just until you figure out who
you want to be and it's up toyou to put them on you.
And if you're Ryan Holiday andyou're listening, please choose
a smaller font, because you'regoing to run out of space.

Speaker 1 (57:54):
We try to get.
Actually I didn't, but one ofmy guests has been trying to get
Ryan Holiday on the show, sohopefully we'll get him on
someday.
I would not have.
I would have been the blacksheep of your family because in
college I had a baby and atattoo, so my college would not
have been paid for if you weremy mother.

Speaker 3 (58:10):
Yep, you wouldn't have.

Speaker 1 (58:12):
And I wouldn't be able to talk to you on this
podcast right now either.

Speaker 3 (58:15):
Well, you know, that's why I said everybody's
route is different.
That's the route I wanted formy children.
Yeah, it's the route.
You know, my brother's kidsdidn't go to college.
They went on and did theircareers right out of high school
and they've had great success.
It's whatever your route is.

Speaker 1 (58:37):
But that was the route my kids, you set
expectations and that was myexpectation.
I said well, from what I cantell, the route you, they've
chosen, that you helped createfor them, has worked is working
for all three of them.

Speaker 3 (58:42):
So so far so good.
You know, parenting is is uh,you don't.
You get it.
I always say I always lostparent of the year by January
3rd, like really I don't everget it all right, but I try my
best, I did the work and I feellike I made really good humans,
you know.

Speaker 1 (58:56):
Well, I hope your son in the Air Force knows how much
we appreciate his service toour country too.

Speaker 3 (59:00):
So that goes without saying Thank you for saying so,
Of course of course, I have aquestion for you Right now.

Speaker 1 (59:07):
You've got I mean, we're going to do another show
together.
I hope you know that.
Oh, I hope you know that.
Oh, I hope so.
Yeah, yeah, we're gonna doanother show.
But I want to ask you right now, with all you've accomplished
and all you've gone through,what do you consider to be a
victory in life right now?
What's a big win for you?

Speaker 3 (59:23):
well, we just said it .
A big win for me is my kids allhappy and healthy.
That is it like that to makehumans and I always go.
And I made little humans andthey don't suck and I'm out, I'm
done.
So big, big wins for me are I'monly as happy as my saddest kid
.
You know that's a big win forme.

Speaker 1 (59:39):
And how many quotes do you have in your, in your
arsenal?

Speaker 3 (59:42):
Oh, I got a bunch of them.
If you consider that a quote,that's a good one, though, but I
think a lot of parents are thatway.
I think you're like as much asI built mine, built mine to go
out and be in the world and havewings and do their own thing

(01:00:03):
when they're struggling.
It's, it's all.
It's on me like it's on my mind, it's in my brain, it's who
it's part of me it eats, ass, iteats.

Speaker 1 (01:00:11):
Yes, it does.
It's just like.
Oh, I can't like.
I was um, my son and I werehaving an argument, uh, maybe
eight months ago, and I was umit just something.
It was via text, I think, youknow, maybe this phone call just
a stupid argument on the phone,you know, then we both kind of
I gotta go and you know, justimmature on my end and I was
reading a book.
Um, my goodness, I'm gonna feelawful if I can't think of nudges

(01:00:32):
from the other side.
I believe I had mary on my endand I was reading a book.
My goodness, I'm going to feelawful if I can't think of it
Nudges from the Other Side.
I believe I had Mary on my show, the author, a couple of times
and as I was reading her bookbefore she came on the show the
first time, she had lost her sonto a car accident and I was
just reading the book.
And I'm teared up reading thisbook, nina, I'm sitting at my
house alone.
It was like last fall sometimeup reading this book.

(01:00:54):
Nina, I'm sitting at my housealone.
You know, it was like last fallsometime, and December maybe,
and I'm tearing up reading thisbook and I thought and here I
just had an argument with my sonover something I at the time
was like 20- minutes later.
I'm like what did we even argueabout.
I think we're just both in badmoods.
So I shot him a call or a textand said, hey, I and I texted
him.
I said, hey, I want you to knowI love you and I'm so very
proud of you.
And and of course, right away,hey, dad, I love you too, I
can't wait to see you thisweekend type of thing.
I'm like we are kids.

(01:01:17):
Emotions, good and bad, theypervade us, they, they, they
carry me or they bring me down.
I mean, because they're alwayslike I love that I'm, you're
only as happy as your saddestkid.

Speaker 3 (01:01:28):
It's powerful dude.

Speaker 1 (01:01:30):
Thanks, I like it too .
I think that way a lot.

Speaker 3 (01:01:32):
I'd even call you dude, by the way.

Speaker 1 (01:01:33):
Dude, you can totally call me dude, I want to be a
dude.

Speaker 3 (01:01:35):
I mean, that's kind of a dude.

Speaker 1 (01:01:37):
I was talking to a prospect yesterday on the phone
for the first time.
I'd never met her before.
We talked for like 40 minutes.
I'd love to get this client on.
I'm pretty positive that I will.
But I was talking to her thefirst time and like three times
I called her dude and I keptcorrecting myself.
Finally she goes.
You called me dude again and Isaid I know I did and at the end

(01:02:00):
she goes when you come intotown we're going to have to get
dinner together because this isan interesting conversation.
But you know I knew she was notlike I felt awful because I had
just come off vacation.
I'd spent like a week and ahalf with some friends and I,
you know my mouth got a littlevulgar during that week and a
half and you know calling myfriends dude and man, you know
just stupid and I just that,both that vernacular, that
vocabulary, just kind of carriedover through the work week.

Speaker 3 (01:02:22):
So, um anyway, so I take it as a compliment.
I feel like if you call me dude, we're now friends.
Yeah, that's how I think of it.
You wouldn't call me dudeunless you felt really
comfortable with me and thoughtI was a friend or someone you'd
want to be friends with.
I'm taking I'm taking dude as acompliment.
I'm owning it.

Speaker 1 (01:02:37):
You made the mistake of calling me from your cell
phone, didn't you?

Speaker 3 (01:02:40):
I did.

Speaker 1 (01:02:41):
I'm a texter man oh there you go.
I'm one of those texters atfive.
Hey dude, get up and tackle theworld.
Man I think it was one of myuncles would say get up and piss
the world's on fire.

Speaker 3 (01:02:55):
Oh my gosh, there's a couple of those morning mantra
folks who say hilarious thingsthat I do tap into some mornings
.

Speaker 1 (01:03:02):
I know One of my friends.
Every time I call him I'll sayhow are you today?
I call him Chum.
His name is Steve.
He'll say if I was any better,vitamins would take me in the
morning.

Speaker 3 (01:03:12):
That's good.

Speaker 1 (01:03:17):
I haven't was any better.
Vitamins would take me in themorning.
Okay, I have another question.
I love this question.
You know, and I think Iprobably you've given so much,
uh, really useful wisdom, a verypractical wisdom today.
But and so I kind of think Ithe gist of the answer that I
think I'm, I think I think Iknow what I'm going to hear, but
I don't know if I'm going tofly down to charleston today.
I'm not coming up.
I'm going to bring my timemachine with me and we're going

(01:03:37):
to go back in time.
You pick the time of your life.
I don't care if it's 16, 19, or37.
Pick a time frame in your lifeand you sit down and we go down
and we visit your younger formerself and I'm just going to sit
and observe.

Speaker 3 (01:03:58):
What lessons would you tell that younger nina?
Oh well, I thought about this.
Um, uh, younger nina's nina ingeneral, and better at it.
Now that I'm a little older,I'm tough on myself.
I would tell myself to bekinder to me, especially kinder
to me as I age.
Uh, because we all you knowthat that useful energy and
exuberance and all of that isfantastic, but you do have to be
a little kinder and gentlerwith your brain and your body as

(01:04:19):
you get older and take care ofyourself.
But I would tell myself it'sokay to not be okay, but don't
stay that way and be kind toyourself and give yourself some
grace when you are not being arock star.

Speaker 1 (01:04:34):
Okay, I'm just trying to write this down.
So I'm going to repeat this.
Back to the bamboo pack,because I know somebody out
there right now, one of youright now, is thinking that
you're just not in a good place.
I know that, and many more thanjust one.
But I'm talking to you rightnow.
You're not feeling okay.
It's okay to feel that wayright now, but just don't stay

(01:04:55):
there.
Don't stay there.
Think about who will you be onthe other side of this.
As Nina said, you will bedifferent.
You won't be the same and it'syour choice to be either a
stronger, better version ofyourself or a weaker, less
version of yourself.
Who will you be?
And give yourself some grace.
Just give yourself some grace.
Take care of yourself, yourmind, your body, your spirit,

(01:05:17):
your heart.
Take care of who you are rightnow and be okay with where you
are, but just make sure youdon't stay there very long,
because you will come out ofthis a different person and it's
your choice who you will bewhen you come out of it.
So thank you for that wisdom.
That's amazing.

Speaker 3 (01:05:32):
Very well said.
I like the way you said it.
You put it all back togetherthere.
That was really powerful, Brian.

Speaker 1 (01:05:37):
Thanks.
Well, you're welcome.
Thank you, man.
You're just giving me so muchammunition here.
Like I, literally as we'regoing through the show, I always
think, okay, what is going tobe today's title of this episode
?
Now, AI generates a bunch ofpotential titles for me.
Sometimes I choose them,Usually, I mean sometimes I
choose them.

Speaker 3 (01:05:57):
Usually I doctor them up a little bit with you.
I'm like I don't really knowthere's so many.
It's been.
You know.
It's interesting because I hada hard time as I'm a keynoter
and I had a hard time describingwhat I talk about and what I do
, because there's a lot to it.
So I'll be interested to seewhat you come up with.

Speaker 1 (01:06:11):
You'll get the view.
So how it works and and I wasgoing to tell you this after,
but for the bamboo pack, I don'tknow if you know how this works
.
When I shoot an episode, itgoes through AI editing really
within an hour or two afterwe're done recording and then I
doctor it up.
My mother, who happy birthdaymom yesterday.
My mother, dolores, turned 89years old yesterday and she is
Happy birthday mom and she isthank you, she's going to love

(01:06:32):
it.
She, she is the most amazingwoman.
My friends who visited me lastnight.
They stopped on Monday andspent an hour at her house and
brought her flowers.
And my friends got here lastnight and my, my friend,
gretchen.
She said I want to be your momwhen I get older, cause she's 89
.
She still works.
Nina works part-time.
She walks every day with herbest friend, opal.
Um, she's incredibly active.

(01:06:54):
Her mind is as sharp as it everhas been.
I mean, she just continues tocontinue to get better and
better.

Speaker 3 (01:06:59):
Amazing.

Speaker 1 (01:07:01):
Yeah, she's an amazing woman.
So happy birthday, mom.
I love you so much.
So my mom is the first one whogets a copy of the show.
I text it to her and shelistens to it when she goes to
bed.
So then, nina, you'll get acopy right away and then you can
look at the title and if youlike it, you know we'll, we'll
stick with it.
If you think of somethingbetter, let me know.

Speaker 3 (01:07:16):
So anyway, I trust you, I trust you and AI and your
mother.

Speaker 1 (01:07:21):
Yeah, my mom always gives me thumbs up or thumbs
down.
She'll say, oh, I love that one.
I didn't really like that oneso much.
That person talked too fast.
I'm like, okay, so she's.
My mom is so brutally honest,so I like it.
We all need a mom like that.
Oh my gosh, she is the greatest.
Okay.
So I have one more question,anina.
Um, and this is the, is thereany question that I didn't ask

(01:07:43):
that you wish I would have asked?
Or is there any final messagethat you want to capsulate?
Leave with the bamboo pack gosh.

Speaker 3 (01:07:51):
Well, my final message is always that it's okay
to not be okay.
Just don't stay that way.
No, I think we've capturedeverything.
We went through it.
I call.
I'll throw this out there toend with.
When you're going on a road trip, folks, and you hit an obstacle
or you hit something in yourpath, your GPS will say

(01:08:11):
recalculating route and figureout a way to get you there.
It may not be the nicest routethat you want to do, or maybe
you want to pull off to the sideof the road and wait a minute
and get back on that same road.
Whatever it is, be it trafficand what we're talking about
today.
This is your internal GPSsaying recalculating route and
figuring out a way forward.
Like, wouldn't it be nice ifthe universe had something where

(01:08:34):
this is where you are, this iswhere you're going?
Let me recalculate that for you.
But this concept of putting itin your timeline and figuring
out exactly what you're dealingwith and pulling out some people
and working on your languageand self-sabotage and that
self-talking story, that is your, what I call your resilience
route navigator, that is yourinternal GPS and you need to

(01:08:56):
build that.
You just need to build thatinto your practice of how you
handle things when they don't goright.
There we go.
Long answer to a quick question.

Speaker 1 (01:09:04):
Resilience route navigator.
Now is that in your book?

Speaker 3 (01:09:07):
That is not.
That is in the book that I'mworking on now.

Speaker 1 (01:09:10):
That's in the middle of the.

Speaker 3 (01:09:11):
this is the research and work that I'm putting out
now.
So when you said, what elsehave I not shared?
I haven't shared that as much,but that is the book that's in
the works now, and I reallythink it's going to be helpful
for so many people.

Speaker 1 (01:09:22):
Now, when is that?

Speaker 3 (01:09:25):
When's the release date scheduled?
For that?
It is not scheduled.
So this is a book I'm writingfor, really focused on corporate
America and people who are inwhat I call the excellence
exhaustion so not burnout, butjust constantly raising the bar
and doing more, and raising thebar and do more, and the goal
was to get this out.
I would like to get it out inFebruary, march of next year.

(01:09:46):
That would be my goal, but Ihave there'll be a lot of my
blogs and all of that from here,so then will be a lot of this
content.

Speaker 1 (01:09:51):
OK, so let's do this, let's informally, right now,
commit to you coming on the showright when your book, right
before your book, is released,whenever that is next year and
we can really, I really want tomaybe I can get a pre-copy of
that book.

Speaker 3 (01:10:03):
Oh, I would love that If you want to be one of my
early readers.
I like that.

Speaker 1 (01:10:07):
I would love to.
I had a lady on well, gwendolynBounds is her name, wendy
Bounds.
She's written a couple ofamazing books.
The first one was Little Chapelon the River, which I highly
recommend.
She was in her apartment rightnext to the World Trade Center
when the planes hit and she hadto escape the city and then she

(01:10:28):
and her partner went up toupstate New York to kind of
regroup and they found thislittle Irish bar and they fell
in love with the people and shewrote a book about it.
It was, it was cap, itencapsulated, it just was one of
the most amazing books I'veever read.
And, um, I got a hold of her afew years ago.
We became friends and and shewas on the show a couple years
ago and she wrote another booknever too old or not too old
about her now journey in her 50sof becoming a Spartan racer and

(01:10:52):
doing all these high enduranceruns and races.

Speaker 3 (01:10:54):
Oh my gosh, I've done some of those.

Speaker 1 (01:10:56):
She was a journalist as well.
She was on Good Morning America.
She was a journalist and anon-air personality.
Then she worked for ConsumerReports.
Now she works for Upstart NewsSource.
But her book that book rightthere is so good.
It's so good when you're inyour 50s and you just want to
start over or change a littlebit of who you are.

(01:11:16):
It talks about what you canaccomplish in the second half of
your life.
It's really good, I love thatit really ties into your stuff.
So I know Wendy's listening toit, so shout out to her book too
.
That's a great book, all right.
So let's get you back, wouldlove that.
I I'd like to do anotherepisode in the fall with.
You've got so much to unpackhere and I know I just sense
that we've just scratched thesurface of this iceberg well, I

(01:11:39):
would love to, brian, you callme.

Speaker 3 (01:11:40):
You let me know um, I'd love to.
In the fall I can talk to youmore about this, my new concept
around burnout and the work thatI'm doing in that research too.

Speaker 1 (01:11:48):
It's really fascinating what we're doing to
our own bodies, so yeah, I thinkI need to that that story just
as much as anybody does.
So, yeah, I will.
Well, I got your number so Ican text you anytime now.
And, by the way, I do want toshow it to to Amilca, your
publicist, from from.
Podcast Cola, she's the one.

(01:12:08):
Is it Castillo?
Yes, amilca Castillo.
I know she'll be listening tothis Excellent work getting us
together.
I was so impressed with her.

Speaker 3 (01:12:16):
I am new.
Yeah, I am new with them and Ihave had some great experiences.
They've really been fun to workwith.
They found me, they found meyou, so I'm thankful for that.

Speaker 1 (01:12:24):
I love it.
Yeah, she reached out to meafter listening to one of the
episodes or something and shesaid I love the way you, who's
an author and, um, I, yeah, thatsounds great.
So she sent me all your bio andyour website and all your links
and this and that.
So I'm like, yeah, let's gether on.
So I appreciate it, thank you,and I'll go appreciate you
getting us together.

Speaker 3 (01:12:42):
Now I have a new friend absolutely you're gonna
get early morning text from menow, because we're both on the
east coast.

Speaker 1 (01:12:49):
At least that's not a problem that's true it's my
clients on the west coast and Iforget.
I you know I get up at usually5 to 5.30 is my time frame every
day and I'll be sitting theredoing my stuff and I'll text
clients out.
I'm like oh, it's only threeo'clock their time.
I hope their phone's turned off.
I've had a few people getpretty upset with me.
I'm like sorry, won't happenagain.

Speaker 3 (01:13:07):
Well, hopefully they have.

Speaker 1 (01:13:08):
Of my bonus sons Evan and his wife Sandy just had a
baby last Wednesday I believeTuesday or Wednesday and I have
to remember all my children arein in Michigan, um I so I have
two biological children, ashleyand Dawson, and I have three
bonus sons, adam, evan andTaylor, and they're all three

(01:13:29):
are now married and, uh, I can'ttext our family texts, which I
text for five to six times aweek.
I can't text all my kids andtheir spouses until like nine
o'clock because they're they'rein Lake Tahoe.
Evan and Sandy are.
They just had a baby.

Speaker 3 (01:13:42):
So I always have to wait, and they've got little
ones, yeah, yeah, they've gotlittle ones, yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:13:45):
They just got a like a literally a week old actually
a week old today, so anyway,Anyway, all right, my friend,
hey, I just want to let you knowthis was an incredible honor to
get to know you today and itwas such a pleasure to have you
on the show.

Speaker 3 (01:13:58):
So fun, Brian.
I'm excited to hear how thisall turned out.
This has been a windingconversation, but I've got to
find out where your website ishere on my computer.
There we go.

Speaker 1 (01:14:17):
I want to leave with a quote, because in your website
you have quoted yourself.
Your quote was I want to be ina room full of smart,
hardworking people who arefacing a challenge or change and
embolden them to keep going.
Then give them the tools tohandle anything that gets in
their way.
You have done exactly thattoday on the Bamboo Lab podcast,
so I can't thank you enough.

Speaker 3 (01:14:39):
My pleasure and thank you for sharing that.

Speaker 1 (01:14:41):
Oh, you're welcome.
All right, everyone, I knowyou're all going to be remember,
send those heart letters in.
You're going to love this.
I know you're going to loveNina and her content and her
wisdom and her experience.
So please share with me, so Ican share with her what this
episode, what her lessons andher wisdom and experience have
done for you by listening to herstory.
Please hit that like button,smash that like button, actually
Really rate, review us andplease share this episode with

(01:15:03):
three people you love, becausethere's so much that can help
them.
Help them change theperspective on anything that
they're going through or will gothrough in their lives.
So please do that.
I'll talk to all of you in aweek.
In the meantime, please get outthere and strive to be and give
your best.
Please show love and respect toothers and to yourself, and
please, by all means, live witha purpose.
I appreciate each and everysingle one of you.

(01:15:25):
Until next time.

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