April 16, 2024 • 62 mins
In this episode, Dr. Sarina Barbara and Dr. Lindsey Wendt join me to chat about ozone therapy. We dive behind it's science and success stories and chat about the myriad of ways it can be beneficial for our pets health, including propelling treatments for cardiac and kidney conditions in pets to new heights.
Safety is paramount when it comes to our pets, and that's why we take a thorough look at the precautions and protocols surrounding the application of ozone therapy. From the dos and don'ts to the strategic timing of antioxidant use. As veterinarians increasingly adopt ozone therapy, discover how you can navigate this expanding landscape to find the best care for your furry family members.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
So nice to see you guys.
We are going to talk aboutozone therapy today, which is
something that I really knowvery little about, nor do I
really understand how it works.
Speaker 2 (00:14):
They have been silent all day and just decided it's
okay.
Speaker 1 (00:22):
It's because they can hear the you know what it's a
dog podcast, so it's superappropriate.
It adds a little flavor to thepodcast episode.
I don't mind it at all, Um sosorry, oh man.
I have a collection right now.
What kind of dog do you have?
Speaker 2 (00:39):
Yes, I find myself accidentally rescuing dogs and
cats in need.
So I have a colony of geriatricdogs and cats.
Speaker 1 (00:51):
Well, good for you for doing that.
You just rescue them and thenhelp them live out the rest of
their years.
Speaker 2 (00:56):
Yep, I do so, being in the field, I'm in, they just
happen to come my way and yeah,so I have a soft spot for them.
Speaker 1 (01:09):
They know, they know, I know one of my big dreams is
to have, like a senior dogsanctuary, just where everybody
can go and, just, you know, liveout the rest of their lives in
peace and being cared for Well.
Kudos to you for doing that.
That's great.
Speaker 2 (01:26):
Thank you, and hopefully they don't contribute
to this podcast much more today.
It's okay.
Speaker 1 (01:32):
It's okay if they do.
Well, we're going to talk aboutozone therapy and, as I was
saying, that this is somethingthat I know very little about.
I know Dr Lindsay gave me anozone therapy shampoo many moons
ago for my dog's skin issuesand it really seemed to help.
I don't know how, but it waslike we had been using like a
(01:52):
medicated shampoo for a reallylong time and it was super
drying him out and nothing wasreally getting better.
But we you know he had had skinstuff his whole life and so we
couldn't really get to the rootof it, but this seemed to really
really help.
So we've been using that Um,but I know that it can be used
for like so many differentthings.
I was reading um, all sorts ofdifferent ailments with our pups
(02:13):
, and so I'm just curious.
I think we're just going todive in and talk about what
ozone therapy is like.
Where did it come from?
And, um, we can, you can talk alittle bit about you and how
you fell into it, and yeah, allright, For sure I like it.
Speaker 2 (02:29):
So, yeah, you are not alone, because not a lot of
people know about ozone therapyat all.
So that's kind of one of mymissions that I accidentally
found myself falling upon isspreading the word, because it's
a shame that not many peopleknow what it is and don't even
know that it's an amazing toolto not only help their own
(02:52):
health but their pet's health aswell.
So, yeah, I'll give you alittle rundown as far as how I
got into it, because I, like you, had never heard of it, no idea
about it went through vetschool Like this is not
something that you learn in vetschool or medical school and I
(03:13):
did an externship at FloridaWild Veterinary Hospital in
DeLand, florida, when I was asenior in vet school and they
had just brought ozone therapyinto the practice at that point,
so they were just sort of likedabbling with it.
Then you could tell they weren'tsure either, kind of what
(03:36):
exactly they were doing, butwere excited and hopeful that
they had it and could startusing it.
So I was just the first littlelike, hmm, what, what's this
that they're doing?
Um, and they actually had apretty intense case come through
around that time where it was alabrador that was getting um
(04:01):
receiving chemotherapy forlymphoma and he was on the
regimen where he was gettingdoxorubicin injections and, um,
there was an accidentalextravasation, meaning that that
solution leaked out of the veinand went into the subcutaneous
tissue of the limb.
(04:22):
And when that happens it isdevastating.
A lot of the times the limb hasto be amputated because the
tissue just necrosis through thebone.
Speaker 1 (04:36):
Oh right, Okay, that makes sense.
Speaker 2 (04:40):
Everyone's biggest fear when you're using this drug
or for chemotherapy.
I'm assuming it doesn't happenvery often so, or do I want to?
Yeah, so whenever vets areusing this, this chemotherapy,
there's lots of precautions andand and um kind of protocols to
prevent it from happening, butstill it happens sometimes.
(05:03):
Um, and so this dog's leg justwas swollen and inflamed and
like five times the size of theother leg.
Um, and the owners wereprepared we're going to need to
amputate this limb, and ozonetherapy was just brought into
(05:23):
the practice at that point, andso the doctors there just
started using it, injecting itaround the area that was
(05:43):
affected, giving it systemicallyas well, which we can talk
about all the different modesusing it to clean the wound.
And in the end the dog did notlose his limb, didn't ever need
to receive even have a deep, adebriding surgery, and ended up
completely healed with a fullyfunctioning limb.
So that was a bit crazy, andthat was my first like what the
heck is this?
What's going on here?
(06:04):
Yeah, so, yeah, that was myfirst little introduction to
ozone therapy, and then Ifinished vet school and I
actually got offered a job there, so I accepted and I went
straight in to practice atFlorida Wild once I graduated
Cool, and I started to dabblewith ozone as well.
(06:27):
But I wasn't there.
I just wasn't quite sure as faras what am I doing?
How is this working?
So I wasn't really seeing theseamazing effects that I was
hoping I would see and I wasn'tusing it that much cause I was
(06:48):
just a new grad, not really surewhat I was doing.
Um, but then I had theopportunity to go and have a
four day in-person training withDr Schallenberger, who is he's
a big, big ozone guy, so he is,um, yeah, so he's like the ozone
(07:11):
figure in the United States.
Um, he is a medical doctor, sohe's a he's a human physician
who's been practicing ozonetherapy, promoting it, doing
research on it, for longer thanI've been alive and um, and I
went and got to have personaltraining with him on his
(07:32):
protocols, how to do ozonetherapy.
Why is it working?
How is it working?
And that's when everythingchanged, because I really start
to to understand, um, understandthe mechanisms behind it, and
also got to realize, like holycrap, can we be doing so much
(07:53):
more with our pet patients?
Because in the human worldthey're doing amazing things
with ozone therapy.
They're doing amazing thingswith ozone therapy and it's just
not really made its way intoveterinary medicine that much
yet.
It has, but not that much yet.
(08:14):
So learning his protocols andwhat he's doing with his human
patients made me think like,well, why can't we do all that
with our pet patients, right?
So I pretty much took all thattraining and just kind of did a
lot of brainstorming andcalculations on how to modify
these doses and make it so thatit's appropriate for our
(08:36):
patients and species, and weapplied it and updated all of
our protocols at Florida wildand started seeing like
incredible results.
Um, and then it's just kepttaking off and after years of
just using it on thousands ofpatients, um, other vets are
(08:59):
starting to reach out and askfor consults.
And what are we doing?
And so, um, word started tospread and people are flying
Like we literally have clientsthat drive RVs.
Fly in like people are comingfrom out of state, flying and
driving for hours to come andreceive these types of therapies
(09:21):
, um, for their pets, so, whichis super cool, but it also makes
me a little sad because it'slike more vets should have this
to provide to their patients.
So then that led me to develop.
Me and my business partner, drHolder, who was the owner of
(09:44):
Florida Wild, we developedAnimal Ozone Therapies, which is
an online educational platformthat provides education to
veterinarians and protocols onhow to start ozone therapy, how
to bring it into your practiceand how to use it safely and
effectively with your patients.
(10:05):
So that's kind of my story asfar as how I got into it, and
it's just sort of one of thosethings that happened.
I definitely didn't go to vetschool thinking, oh, I can't
wait to learn about ozone and tolearn about ozone and treatment
(10:30):
, right, like what even is it?
So yeah, so I'm happy to godown the road to actually
explain what it actually is aswell.
Yeah, right, that's great.
Okay, so what is ozone?
What is ozone?
Speaker 1 (10:41):
Yeah, when I say it, it still, for whatever reason,
makes me think of, which is'sstill for whatever reason, makes
me think of, which iscompletely unrelated, but it
makes me think of, like michaeljackson in a hypobaric oxygen
chamber and I don't know, allright in the 80s, which is now
not, not even something someonewould blink at now, but for
whatever reason.
That's when someone says oh, Idon't know if they do have
(11:04):
anything to do with each other.
Speaker 2 (11:06):
It does actually so I like that.
Speaker 1 (11:10):
That's where your brain went.
I wasn't expecting that, so itwasn't so far off.
Yeah, we gave him so much crapfor that, but you know who knew.
Speaker 2 (11:21):
Yeah, I wasn't expecting you to say that's
where your brain goes when youhear ozone, but I like it.
Speaker 1 (11:27):
It's been weighing on my head.
Speaker 2 (11:30):
Because ozone is a type of oxygen therapy.
Um, first of all, it's a loteasier to administer and to give
(11:56):
these treatments rather thanputting a patient in this loud,
claustrophobic machine whereit's incredibly scary and
stressful and they have to sitin there for hours while a nurse
has to stand there and monitorthem and make sure they're not
having alternative like sideeffects and interesting, and
(12:21):
making sure they're doing okay,they're not like having
respiratory issues.
And then also it does kind ofstimulate more of a free radical
response, hyperbaric chambers,whereas ozone is, I guess, a
(12:44):
gentler free radical stimulationwhich we can talk a little bit
about.
So yeah, so I overall thinkozone is the better route to go,
but hyperbaric does have a lotof similar beneficial effects,
though at the same time.
So all right.
(13:09):
So ozone is it's literally threeoxygen molecules that are bound
together.
So the air that we breathe, theoxygen in the air that we
breathe, those are two oxygenatoms bound together.
That's how oxygen likes to be.
It likes to be a couple, so twotogether.
So when three are boundtogether, they're sharing an
(13:31):
electron which makes thatmolecule unstable.
So that molecule doesn't wantto be three, it wants to be two,
so it wants to get rid of thatthird oxygen atom, rid of that
(13:51):
third oxygen atom.
So where this is beneficial iswhen it's exposed to what I call
like a biomolecule.
So in, for example, to ourblood, the surface of a wound,
our skin, it's gonna immediatelydonate that oxygen to a
biomolecule to bind to it andthen a whole cascade of events
(14:13):
occur after that.
So it pretty much willstimulate, um the like a
catabolic enzymatic reactionwithin the cells to kind of go
out a process which there's justmultiple, multiple different
cascades that it can stimulate.
(14:34):
But for some of the most commonthings that it does is it
increases the ATB production ofmitochondria.
So what that means is that itincreases the cell's ability to
produce energy and that energyis incredibly important for
(14:55):
immune function, for bodysystems, for overall organ
function and one of the mostacross the board, any chronic
disease is shown to havedecreased mitochondrial function
.
So being able to increase themitochondrial function in these
(15:15):
patients can automatically bevery helpful.
Thing it's really good atstimulating is increasing the
red blood cells ability totransport oxygen to areas in
need.
So if there's an area in thebody that is low in oxygen or
(15:36):
ischemic, it is going to be moredrawn to that area and want to
bring more oxygen to that area.
So it can really be incrediblyuseful for cardiac situations,
kidney disease, pretty much anydisease process where there's a
(16:00):
decreased oxygen input to anarea, which also is a really
common denominator for mostchronic diseases there's
decreased oxygen flow in thatbody system or that organ.
And another cool thing too isit increases the elasticity of
the red blood cells.
(16:21):
So those little, little tiny,tiny vessels, those tiny
capillaries um, where blood willhave trouble perfusing, in
those areas with ozone therapyit allows them to be a little
bit more bouncy and squishy andget through in those tiny, tiny
areas.
So, again, increasing oxygendelivery to those areas.
(16:52):
Because they need this mightjust sound like a silly question
, but because we need oxygen toheal, right, absolutely.
We need oxygen to live.
Yeah, yes, yeah.
Speaker 1 (16:59):
For sure this might be a bit off topic, but what
causes reduced oxygen flow to acertain?
Speaker 2 (17:06):
area.
Yeah, so inflammation is goingto be like the biggest, broadest
answer to that decreasedfunction of those vessels and
decreased ability to justefficiently get the energy and
(17:27):
get the oxygen to those thattissue, and then they can get
stuck in a vicious cycle andthen that the function gets
worse and then the oxygen levelsget worse and then the
inflammation then gets worse.
So pretty much chronic diseaseis just any patient, pretty much
, that walks through the doorthat's over five years old has
(17:50):
some degree of of chronicdisease these days, which is a
shame, but it's just they.
They get in these viciouscycles and that's why we're
seeing one of many reasons whywe're just seeing so much
cancers and so much liverdisease and kidney failures and
autoimmune diseases.
(18:11):
They're so common and it'ssomething we deal with on a
regular basis as vets.
It's just normal.
It's normal to deal with thison a daily basis.
But having this therapy, Is itpretty accepted that that's for
a lot of veterinarians thatthat's just what you're going to
see, oh, yeah, big time Likegoing to vet school you learn
(18:38):
how to treat these diseases, howto diagnose and treat all these
diseases, how to diagnose andtreat all these diseases.
But I really didn't appreciatereally truly understanding how
to truly prevent most of thesediseases.
So sure, we learn aboutvaccines to prevent getting
(18:59):
parvovirus and things like that,which of course is important,
but really it gets kind of deepand complicated and lots of
different opinions andcontroversies when it comes to
what is actually causing allthis disease in our patients.
So I sort of started divingdown that once I graduated yeah,
(19:23):
and I still am.
I mean, there's there's so muchto learn.
Speaker 1 (19:28):
Sure, I bet, I bet.
I think I interrupted you whenyou were talking about so.
So what was my next question?
Speaker 3 (19:41):
I took you off.
I think like one of the like, Ithink one of the other things
that might be fun, serena, foryou to explain a bit more too,
because people are usually likeI can't believe that, Like, how
does that work?
Is the fact that ozone isantiviral and antifungal, so
like it basically is able tosupport the cells of our body in
a healthy way while alsonegatively impacting things that
(20:03):
we don't necessarily want to bethere.
Speaker 2 (20:06):
Yeah for sure, that's a big one and that's pretty
much one of the craziest thingsabout ozone and what makes it so
unique as well.
Because direct contact of ozonewith any pathogens so virus,
bacteria, protozoa, cancer cells, fungi it damages their cell
(20:31):
wall and literally punches holesin their cell wall, resulting
in death of that pathogen Wow.
But it does not do that tocomplex organisms I can't just
say mammals, because it'shelpful for avians and reptiles
and things like that as well,but it's beneficial to our cells
(20:55):
and their cells and it's notcaustic.
So, for example, like bleachwill also do those things that a
very concentrated bleach willalso kill all those pathogens.
But if you put that bleach onyour skin to kill all those
(21:16):
pathogens, it's going to killall the cells on your skin as
well.
So that's where ozone is sounique, because there's no
resistance, no antibiotic.
So the bacteria that hasantibiotic resistance there's no
resistance to ozone.
There's no pathogen out therethat can combat ozone, that can
(21:38):
survive exposure to ozone, andthis is huge because antibiotic
resistance is becoming more andmore of a huge problem globally.
Yeah, for pets and people.
Yeah for sure Big time.
And veterinarians areresponsible for contributing to
(22:01):
that.
So we need to kind of reel inour antibiotic use a bit, and
this is a great way to safelytreat bacterial infections while
not having to use antibiotics.
So yeah, this is super cool.
One of the crazy cool weirdthings about ozone.
Speaker 1 (22:24):
So how did you have a question, Dr Lindsay?
Speaker 3 (22:27):
I did.
One thing I have wondered isthe differentiation between,
like a cancer cell and a healthycell, because then we're still
taking, like you know, likenormal mammalian cells, just for
the sake of the example.
How is ozone able to negativelyaffect the cancer but then not
negatively impact the healthycells?
Speaker 2 (22:47):
So cancer cells thrive in anaerobic environments
.
So cancer cells hate oxygen.
They do not do well inoxygen-rich environments.
So when we're exposing them tothese extreme levels of oxygen
(23:08):
they actually can't survive.
They can't thrive.
They do better the less oxygen,the more they can grow, the
faster they can grow.
So when you saturate them withhigh levels of oxygen it takes
them down a notch and they can'tthrive in that environment.
So yeah, it's cool stuff forsure.
Speaker 1 (23:33):
It's super cool stuff .
So how is it?
How do you get the?
I mean technical question, buthow do you get the ozone oxygen
therapy into the body?
Speaker 2 (23:45):
Yep, these are all great questions.
Speaker 1 (23:48):
And where you want it to go specifically.
Speaker 2 (23:50):
Yeah, yeah, these are great, great questions.
All right, so you need to getan ozone generator.
There are a ton of companiesout there that make ozone
generators.
Um, the majority of them aremarketed for human use human
patient use and like humanpractitioners but there are a
(24:13):
couple companies that arespecifically sold and
manufactured for veterinarians.
So the two that I'm mostfamiliar with is going to be O3
Vets and then RegenerO3 is anewer one, be O3 Vets and then
(24:34):
Regener-O3 is a newer one.
They are specifically producingthese machines and products for
veterinarians.
So if you're a vet, you getkind of set up with them and
they'll get you set up with yourgenerator and teach you how to
use it.
So once you get that generator,what it does is it literally
produces ozone by having pureoxygen.
(24:56):
So you have a pure oxygen tankset up and then it runs through
this generator and it goesthrough a certain type of
electrical force that then hasthese oxygens combine into ozone
.
There's different settings sothat you can have different
(25:18):
concentrations, and that's whereit comes down to importance of
using concentrationsappropriately, because you don't
want to.
If you use an incrediblyconcentrated form of ozone, it
is going to be a bit irritatingto the cells of the patient.
(25:39):
So you just need to use theappropriate concentration
depending on how it's beinggiven.
Concentration depending on howit's being given, and what that
means is just the amount ofozone to oxygen.
So you're going to be usingozone oxygen mixture when you're
using it and then, as far asprotocols, you will need some
(26:05):
guidance on and kind someguidance on which protocols will
be appropriate.
But the most common ways toadminister ozone is going to be
major auto-hemotherapy is whatit's called and this is when
blood is drawn from the patient.
(26:25):
It's then mixed with ozone gas,so it's gently, kind of just
rocked back and forth in asyringe or a bag with this gas
and only needs to be rocked fora minute or so and it's, and it
saturates that blood.
(26:46):
So you'll literally watch.
It's a really cool thing toactually see because you'll
watch this dark, dark, darkblood get put in the bag and
then, as soon as you startmixing it, it starts getting red
and red and redder and by theend it's like neon red, like
this beautiful, bright, thrivingred.
(27:07):
Happy healthy red, yeah, coolyeah.
And then you inject thatozonated blood back into the
patient intravenously.
Wow, so that's one form.
That's a systemic way toadminister ozone.
Another systemic way toadminister ozone is rectal
(27:31):
insufflation.
So that consists of literallyjust giving an enema of gas up
the bum.
Owners are sometimes when Iexplain to them what it is,
they're like oh, I don't knowabout that, but it's honestly,
it's so easy, it's so welltolerated, it's the.
(27:54):
The patients tolerate it sowell, like minimal to no stress
at all.
Um does not require needles orpokes or anything like that.
And it's fast, it's easy andactually you're able to get
really nice systemic doses inthese patients with erectile
insufflation.
So that is a big one that Ihighly encourage and push like
(28:19):
newer ozone users to start doing, because it's just the easiest
and most straightforward way tostart helping your patients.
Speaker 1 (28:30):
So this is all something that you have to do
with a veterinarian.
This is not something that youwould do on your own, obviously.
So, oh, everybody seems alittle on the fence about this,
yeah, so Maybe it depends onwhat the issue is Like.
If I have a dog with, like,chronic ear infections, is that
something I can administer tothem on their own?
(28:51):
I mean, I know I had a topicalshampoo.
Speaker 2 (28:53):
It's a little bit different, but yeah, so so I'll
answer that in a couple ways.
So you're mentioning the earinfections.
So you can also saturatesolutions with ozone and then
use that solution as rinses andas cleaners.
And there's special glassbeakers that you can have hooked
up to your machine that whoeveryou bought your machine from
(29:16):
can set you up with that.
But pretty much it's going to bedistilled water or like saline
and you just run the ozonethrough a bubbler through that
and it saturates that solutionand then you use that solution
to like clean the ears, forexample, and do ear rinses if
you're having ear infectionproblems.
(29:38):
But as far as doing ozone athome, this is something that pet
owners absolutely can do.
Yep, they can administer ozoneat home to their pets.
I just am very careful aboutmaking sure that these owners
(30:05):
have a relationship with aveterinarian and guidance from a
veterinarian who is comfortableand familiar with ozone therapy
, because you can overdo it.
There are things that pet ownerscan accidentally end up doing
(30:25):
harm rather than good if theydon't have the proper guidance
doing harm rather than good ifthey don't have the proper
guidance.
And for the pet's sake, butalso for ozone therapy's sake,
it's just so important that wedo this right and carefully so
that there's no accidental kindof mishap that will make people
have this fear of ozone, whichis so unnecessary.
(30:46):
So it's just important we havesafe protocols and guidelines in
place, um, so that ozone cancontinue to grow, um, and people
can continue to be comfortablewith it and and use it more.
But, um, yeah, um, doing ozoneat home is definitely something
that, um, ozone at home isdefinitely something that I will
(31:12):
have my clients do, especiallyin chronic cases where they
really need to have it, receiveit multiple times a week.
Speaker 3 (31:21):
Yeah, and just to clarify, and, Serena, I'm
curious your answer on thisbecause I do know a few pet
parents that had ozone machinesbefore I started working with
them and, interestingly enough,as humans they had been dealing
with their own Lyme diseaseissues and it's a really, really
big modality in the Lymecommunity.
So I have found at least humanwise people that have awareness
(31:44):
of that are very quick to wantto implement it into the
treatment protocols for theirfur kids.
Outside of so rectal is usuallyhow I have seen pet parents
administer it at home.
Serena, is there anything else?
Because, like I just want tomake sure people don't think
that they would ever be doinglike the major auto chemotherapy
at home.
Speaker 1 (32:04):
So they would only be doing like blood out and like
blood and mix it.
Speaker 3 (32:09):
Yeah, so it's usually like rectal insufflation, but I
know I've also seen, likeCharlotte, your question about
ear infections.
There's actually little earcones that go over so and the
ozone has to go through a oilkind of bubbler to be able to
convert it to a form that's safeif you do inhale it because you
(32:31):
don't want to be.
That's where I think a lot ofthe misconceptions of ozone come
from, which is one of thethings I wanted us to talk about
, because people hear ozone andthey think of like those old air
purifiers from the 90s or thefact that it's like damaging to
the lungs or to breathing, butit's all just, like serena was
saying, having awareness of howto do it safely and properly.
So are there other like do youhave clients ever do the ear
(32:56):
insufflation like the little earcones at home?
Speaker 2 (32:57):
So typically not really Um, there are.
So I I personally like at at umat work.
I I don't do the earinsufflation very often.
I have a lot of ozonecolleagues and friends
throughout the world who use itregularly and love it, but I
(33:23):
typically don't because of theoil.
So if you run it through theoil, it is going to be safer
because you're not going to havethat caustic effect on the
airways, and running it throughoil just is one more extra step
(33:46):
and one more it's just it's muchmore time consuming and also
you just have to be very carefulbecause the oil can heat up and
there can be backs up andpressures and so things can go
wrong with, like explosions andthings like that.
So if, if you really know whatyou're doing and you know how to
(34:07):
work this machine and you knowit inside and out and you
understand the science behind itand the mechanics behind it,
then great, like go for it.
But I'm personally veryuncomfortable having a client
running this through an oilbubbler at home, um, cause I
feel like things could go wrong,um, and then the other thing is
(34:31):
you don't have to run itthrough um a bubbler If you just
use a very low volume of ozone.
You can just fill the canal andkind of just hold it off, but
it's really important that youconfirm that their eardrum's
intact and a lot of the timesthat can be hard to confirm and
just like a really inflamed,painful ear.
(34:53):
So, um, that's where I just gostraight to using the solutions.
Um, it seems to be tolerated,the best and and and effective.
So I will have owners likebubble their own distilled water
and use that to rinse the ears.
But yeah, I know some peopleuse the ear cuffs and swear by
(35:16):
it, but I kind of strayed awayfrom that.
Speaker 1 (35:21):
That sounds too scary for me.
Speaker 2 (35:25):
Yeah, I don't mean to scare you.
Speaker 1 (35:27):
Yeah, I don't mean to scare you, yeah, so when done
properly, there are no sideeffects with ozone therapy.
Speaker 2 (35:37):
So correct.
So to kind of sum that up, sideeffects are pretty much rare to
none.
Okay, a few situations where Irecommend not reaching for ozone
therapy are pretty kind ofstraightforward.
(35:58):
If a patient is unstable andactively at risk of dying for
any reason, stabilize thatpatient and then think about
ozone Pretty muchstraightforward.
If it's hemorrhaging, figureout why it's hemorrhaging, stop
that and then reach for theozone.
(36:19):
Because, believe it or not,some people will just be like
how can ozone fix this?
Like we can't fix every singlething with it.
But ozone can help with redblood cell regeneration.
So like it will becomebeneficial once you stabilize
and get that patient, um, in astable situation.
(36:40):
Um, you don't want to breathe itin, so, um, that's where the um
, having the gas, putting thegas in the ears.
Why I stray away from that isbecause it'll leak into ambient
air a bit and your staff willbreathe it in a little, and the
pet will breathe it in a little,and a tiny bit is fine, you'll
(37:02):
smell it and it doesn't smellthe greatest Um.
But once you smell it, you'll,you'll know it, um, and if
enough is breathed in, it willcause bronchospasm.
So you smell it, you'll, you'llknow it, um, and if enough is
breathed in, it will causebronchospasm.
So you'll just you'll cough, um.
And if you for some reasonaccidentally inhale like a
really high potent, concentrateddose, yeah, that's going to
(37:24):
give you a really nasty coughingfit, um, but the way the ozone
is handled and and drawn up andtransported into their
situations, there there's noleakage.
So it's not normal to to haveto breathe it in.
Like, if you, if you smell it,there's a leak somewhere, you
(37:46):
find that leak and you fix theproblem, um, so, yeah, so you
want to avoid inhaling it, um, Ialso advise veterinarians to be
cautious.
If you, if they have ahyperthyroid cat who, um, is
(38:07):
unmanaged, so is their thyroidlevel super high and they're
having all these symptomsshowing that they're going into,
like, hyperthyroid crisis, youwant to avoid ozone on those
patients because hyperthyroidismis the metabolism and metabolic
functions amped up, and ozoneamps up metabolic functions, so
(38:31):
it can sometimes tip them overthe edge.
If you do ozone on those catsthat are riding the edge, now,
it's not contraindicated to doon hyperthyroid cats who are
managed, that is fine.
But if they're unmanaged and ina severe kind of hyperthyroid
(38:52):
state, you want to avoid it inthem and then let's see.
I think the only other one Iadvise using caution is using on
pregnant animals, and it's notbecause bad things have ever
happened using it on pregnantanimals, it's just that the
(39:13):
research is a little bit limitedright now for use with
pregnancy.
So I know, like the conferencesI go to on ozone therapy, there
are physicians human physiciansthat talk about how they use
ozone therapy on pregnant women,like it's it's used on pregnant
(39:35):
patients, um, but I just sayuse caution because there's just
not enough research out thereto back us up.
So if, say, it's used on a veryexpensive bitch and she for some
reason aborts a million-dollarlitter.
For another reason, we don'twant ozone to be blamed for that
(39:57):
.
We've got to protect thistherapy.
So we just want to be cautiouswith that until we have enough
data out there that supports thesafety use in pregnant animals.
But that does also bring mearound to that.
There are thousands of research, published studies on ozone
(40:17):
therapy.
This is a well-studied therapy.
This isn't some brand new thingthat just started being used.
There's a lot of science, a lotof supportive data on um, on
its use, its efficacy, why itworks, how it works.
Um, there's so much more to go,but um, we already we we have a
(40:40):
lot of data to back us up.
Speaker 1 (40:43):
That's great.
When did it?
When did it come into fashionis the wrong word, but when was
it essentially discovered?
Or how long have people beenusing ozone therapy?
Speaker 2 (40:55):
Oh boy.
I don't know if you have theanswer to this question.
So the first medical ozonegenerator was developed in the
1800s.
Wow, yeah, so that's when itfirst kind of started and was
developed and it got into liketrauma units where it was
(41:20):
starting to be used for woundslike soldiers from the war it
was being used for that, andthen a little bit in dentistry
is where it started to be used.
And then antibiotics werediscovered, um, and so ozone
(41:40):
kind of took a bit of a backburner because antibiotics were
a bit easier and could bepatented and put in bottles and
shelves and sold and distributedUm but um.
But it continued to um, growand um.
And today there's at least 50professional medical ozone
(42:03):
associations and groupsthroughout the world.
Um, biggest ozone areas areCuba, Europe, Russia, South
America.
Speaker 1 (42:21):
Yeah, those are the so everywhere, but here
essentially, yeah, it's anotherone of those things that's been
around for quite some time.
Speaker 2 (42:52):
In Europe.
Yeah, but not's another one ofthose things that's been around
for quite some time in Europe,but not here patients.
So most ERs, most physicians,have ozone generators and use it
as part of their treatmentmodalities.
It's not considered analternative or an integrative as
part of their mainstaytreatments.
And pretty much and ozone isused a lot in the US as well.
But one of the reasons why it'snot used as much here as it is
in those areas is becauseinsurance doesn't cover it and
(43:17):
pretty much it doesn't cover itbecause it's not FDA approved,
because it can't be patentedLike you can't patent a molecule
Like you can't, you can'tpatent a molecule so Interesting
, yeah, so therefore, insurancewon't cover it.
So all the humans that receiveozone therapy here in the States
(43:42):
it's all out of pocket.
But in vet med most I mean.
I know there are someinsurances and that people will
get insurances on their pets andit's great, but a lot of people
don't and they pay out ofpocket for their pet's health
care.
Yeah, so I do find it's, Iguess, a little bit easier to
(44:03):
have a client pay for ozone fortheir pet than it is to kind of
have them pay for it for theirown health care for some reason,
I think we found that in thispodcast across the board for so
many things.
Speaker 1 (44:16):
It's so much easier to like.
I mean, I could say that formyself.
I said before my dog gets ahost of supplements and I can
barely remember to take myvitamin D on my own, but he gets
it all.
I don't forget his ever.
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (44:29):
Yeah, I think that is incredibly common Um we're all
guilty of it, and our staff too.
At work they always admit um,we have, we.
We go above and beyond for ourpets and sort of forget about
ourselves sometimes.
But we got to remember to takecare of ourselves too.
But yeah, I'm incredibly guiltyof that as well.
Speaker 1 (44:51):
Yeah dr lindy, did you have any more questions?
I'm sure you did I do.
Speaker 3 (44:59):
Um, so I one of the big questions I had.
So, similar to you, serena, Igot into ozone a few years ago,
nowhere near the depths that youhave, so I have been utilizing
it myself and I have seenamazing results.
And one thing, just so thatpeople understand how easy
rectal insufflation is I havetwo cats that I treat at home,
(45:20):
that I give rectal insufflationto on a regular basis, and they
barely even notice.
We give them a little lickabletreat.
They lick it.
It's I almost think it's easier, for whatever reason, than
having their temperature taken,and I cannot tell you exactly
why, but there's, they reactmore to temperatures being taken
than that.
So just for anyone that thinks,like my, my pet would never
(45:42):
accept that you'd be surprised.
But one question I did have waswith the frequency.
So when I was first gettinginto it, I know that I had a
veterinarian tell me you need tobe giving antioxidants every
time you do an ozone treatment.
So just, I think there's someprobably misconceptions that are
(46:02):
floating around.
So I was curious to get youropinion on that.
Like, how frequently can we useit in chronic cases?
Do we need to be givinganything to combat the free
radicals that are being formed,kind of any sage advice you have
for those of us that are juststarting to get into it.
Speaker 2 (46:19):
So that is interesting.
So giving an antioxidant ifyou're using ozone, so I don't.
I like antioxidants, so I don'tthink that's a bad idea.
Like supplements and diet, it'sso important in the just the
holistic approach of helping ourpets.
But is it like something thatis you have to have if you're
(46:48):
doing ozone therapy?
I'd go with no.
But can it be a helpfuladditional tool?
Yes, absolutely.
But the important thing is that,um, so giving the antioxidants,
you actually want to stopgiving them for a couple days
(47:09):
before you do the ozone, becauseif their systems are floating
around a ton of antioxidants,it's going to cancel out that
ozone.
So it's not going to hurt thepatient that it's there, but the
patient's just going to get amuch lower dose than what you
actually administered Becauseall those antioxidants are just
going to cancel it out.
(47:30):
So if your patient is receivinga bunch of antioxidants as part
of their protocol andsupplements, it's best to hold
off on them for a couple days Imean at least 24 hours, I would
say before administering theozone, and then you can start it
right up immediately aftergiving the ozone.
(47:52):
But one of the really coolthings about ozone is that, yes,
it's a free radical, but it isthe gentlest of the free
radicals and pretty much whatit's doing is it's actually
(48:17):
stimulating the body's naturalability to produce its own
antioxidants.
So it's actually kind ofcorrecting and fixing the immune
system and the body's ownprotective mechanisms.
So if you are giving ozoneregularly low-dose ozone on a
regular basis, like your cats,they're systems being trained to
amp up their own antioxidantproduction.
(48:38):
So they really shouldn't needantioxidants after they receive
ozone for a period of time,because their body is already
creating it.
Speaker 3 (48:51):
Well, that's awesome.
And then in those chronic caseslike inflammatory bowel disease
or, you know, pancreatitis orwhat have you, I mean, can we be
giving let's like rectalinsufflation twice a week,
ongoing Like is there?
Because I know there's probablya point at which even something
that's like rectal insufflationtwice a week, ongoing Like is
there, because I know there'sprobably a point at which even
something that's incrediblyhelpful can cross over to maybe
having some detrimental sideeffects.
(49:12):
Is it on a per patient basis orfrequency of administration?
Speaker 2 (49:16):
For sure.
So everything, when it comesdown to it, I always say every
patient is their own individualand we will.
We will approach this patientas their own individual and we
will.
We will approach this patientas their own and modify the plan
as we go to be the best forthis specific patient.
But in the the overrun um, ifthey have a chronic disease that
(49:38):
they will have the rest oftheir life um doing, I put them
on maintenance plans.
So I'll hit them with higherdose, frequent ozone to get them
out of that like crisis viciouscycle mode and then, once we
have that managed and we're goodand we're like in a good,
(49:59):
smooth maintenance phase, I'llput them on maintenance to kind
of keep them there and then iffor some reason they fall out
and they start to go back downthat spiral, then I'll amp them
up and do higher dose morefrequently and then wean them
down to a maintenance.
So when I say maintenance, a lotof the times I can get away
(50:23):
with every other week rectalinsufflation.
I have a lot of patients thatcome in just once a month for
their maintenance.
Some just need to have once aweek, twice a week is fine as
well If we're doing like fivedays a week, then we just need
(50:47):
to give.
We need to give them a break.
So if we do it that often, themucosa and the rectum's just
gonna get a bit irritated.
We need to give the mucosa achance to kind of regenerate and
heal and not be kind ofirritated that often.
If yeah, so if you do it thatfrequently, it can be a little
(51:11):
caustic to that mucosa.
So, yeah, every patient hastheir own maintenance plan that
I developed for them based onhow they respond and how they
tell us they need it.
Speaker 3 (51:23):
So how they respond and how they tell us they need
it.
And then this is really specific.
But I think two of the issuesthat I've seen a lot of animals
have where it is hard to givethem a good treatment option I
know a lot of, you know petparents get frustrated by our
(51:44):
penovasculitis and then likeunclassified alopecia.
So for the pet parents out there, like for the little chihuahuas
or, you know, minpins that havea loss of hair just on the edge
of their ears because I knowthat's really concerning and
there's not necessarily the youknow the best treatment options
out there like even when I sendthem to dermatologists,
sometimes we'll get themstabilized where they are, but
(52:05):
we very rarely get any hairregrowth.
And then the same is true likealopecia, is them just losing
hair.
So a lot of Pomeranians peoplewill see well, they'll have hair
on their legs and on their headand their body is, you know,
bald or balding.
Have you used ozone in any ofthose cases?
When you were talking about,like, how well the red blood
cells get to all of those areasof capillaries, the first thing
(52:28):
I thought of was thepenovasculitis and I was just
curious.
Speaker 2 (52:31):
That is.
That is very interesting.
So no, I really haven't um withthese alopecia cases.
Um, it's I find that everyoneI've dealt with or most of them
are are cosmetic, like it's nota health issue at all for them,
like it's not causing them pain,discomfort, like there's really
(52:51):
no issue.
They just look funny.
So yeah.
So I typically my owners arejust like is this really hurting
them?
Like do we really have to dothings to fix this, because they
could care less that they havethese bald spots.
So I really haven't had anyowners that are like I need this
fixed.
But that is interesting.
(53:12):
So if you have those owners, dosome ozone and let me know
because you got to write thatpaper up if that works, because
I haven't heard of anyone usingit on those cases before.
That'll be cool.
Speaker 3 (53:28):
I will.
Yeah, I'll definitely keep thatin mind.
I would love to see more.
So I guess this is kind of aquestion branching out beyond
pet parents.
But like, how do we help someof our more conventional
colleagues, like oncologists anddermatologists and internal
medicine specialists, start toincorporate this when there is
so much scientific literature?
Because I feel like what I hearfrom a lot of people that are
(53:49):
conventionally trained isthere's not enough science for
me to start integrating blank in.
Like we face that a lot withcannabis, but I don't think that
that applies to ozone.
There's so much science Forsure.
So, like, is there anythingthat?
Speaker 2 (54:04):
we can do.
There's so much science Forsure.
So, like, is there anythingthat we can do?
Yeah, so I'm glad you askedthis, because this has been my
kind of thing too.
I'm like why, why aren't weusing this?
Why aren't we being taught thisin vet school?
Why doesn't every veterinarianhave an ozone machine in their
clinic?
So what?
(54:25):
And others are asking thatquestion as well.
So there are a few likecolleagues and ozone friends
mostly, who I hooked up with andand met with at the holistic
conference.
So where we met and there theyhave that same question and
dilemma as well, and they havethat same question and dilemma
(54:47):
as well.
So I know Jill Rubin.
She's one of the ones.
She owns Regenero3, one of thecompanies.
She has been talking with UCDavis on trying to get in there
and start to introduce ozonetherapy into even their
curriculum a little bit.
(55:09):
And that's where I think thegame changer will be.
Vets aren't open to it becausewe're not taught it in vet
school.
So therefore it must not belike validated and real.
So I think if we can get intosome universities, that's when
it's going to be more accepted.
Um cause, if the universitiesback it up and accept it, then
(55:29):
then everyone else will.
They won't be as scared, theywon't be as skeptical because,
um, cause, the universitiesaccept it and that's when we
learn from and they'rerespectable sources, which is
true.
So if we, if we can get intouniversities, that's, that's, I
think, going to be the gamechanger.
So, yeah, so I'm hoping to tryand just even do some, just some
(55:55):
talks at like.
I know a lot of universitieshave integrative clubs and even
though, like it's a little bitof a pet peeve of mine to call
this an integrative therapy,because like it really shouldn't
be, but that's where we'regonna get in because, um,
because it's not accepted yet asa, as a mainstay therapy, um.
(56:16):
So may I ask?
Speaker 1 (56:18):
is integrative.
The same thing as like ifsomeone said it was a
complementary therapy yeah, forsure so we're saying that this
is not just complementary, thisis a tried and true therapy.
Speaker 2 (56:27):
Yeah, correct.
Yeah, I mean I'd like for it tobe more accepted as a mainstay,
but it is a complementary.
It is because it does make yourdrugs work better.
It does reduce side effects ofyour drugs.
You use it with your mainstaytreatments.
It does reduce side effects ofyour drugs.
You use it with your mainstaytreatments.
But I know a lot of traditionalWestern trained vets are very
(56:51):
put off by the word likeintegrative, complementary.
So I try to be careful aboutthrowing those terms out when
I'm trying to talk to thetraditionally trained vets
(57:13):
because, um, I'm hoping thiskind of comes across as a
studied validated provenscientific source of or mode of
treatment.
Um, yeah, and I really thinkonce, once the universities
accept it, then then we're goingto be golden.
Before we know it, everyone'sgoing to have ozone generators.
We'll see.
Speaker 3 (57:33):
That's great.
And then for pet parents thatare looking you know if they're
a veterinarian, because most ofthe time their veterinarians
will not be offering this how doyou recommend that they find
practitioners near them that maybe offering this, if they are
having chronic health issuesthat they're trying to sign up?
Speaker 2 (57:48):
for.
Speaker 3 (57:49):
Yeah, that is a great question.
Speaker 2 (57:51):
So it's a little bit tough.
So, honestly, doing a Googlesearch and literally typing in
ozone vet, you can sometimescome up with personal websites
of vets that have that as amodality.
Another resource is O3.
Vets is the company that sellsto a lot of veterinarians who do
(58:16):
ozone in the States, so theyhave like a list of the people
who have purchased theirmachines and you could maybe get
connected through that Um.
So it's out there like more andmore and more vets are are
using it.
Um, but some areas it's.
(58:38):
It's going to be tough to find avet.
That's that's close.
So I would be prepared to maybehave to travel to at least just
get established with that vetand then, once you're
established, they can maybe setup protocols for you to do at
home.
And then I always recommenddoing follow-ups.
(58:59):
It doesn't have to be likeevery week, but it's important
to touch base and update theprotocols and not just stick
with one thing long-term for therest of their life, because we
change and so we just have toadapt our therapies as the
patient adapts.
Speaker 1 (59:19):
I think the shampoo that we were using is O3.
Is that what you said?
It is yeah.
Speaker 3 (59:25):
Yeah, it's.
Speaker 1 (59:25):
O3.
You can just get that on Amazonif anyone's looking for a
shampoo ozone therapy shampoofor their pup to help with some
skin stuff.
Speaker 2 (59:33):
Yeah, there's also oils and topicals too, so like
ointments that you can getonline as well.
Can you use those for like hotspots?
Exactly, yeah.
Speaker 1 (59:47):
I have a guy who just keeps getting these chronic hot
spots and I didn't think ofthat, I did not think of ozone.
So I am going to go look forthat right now, after we get off
this conversation, because Iwant to make it.
We need to get to the rootcause of why you keep getting
these hot spots, which is awhole other thing.
But, yeah, good, interesting,okay, good, all right, you guys,
(01:00:12):
well, anything else that youwant to add?
Speaker 3 (01:00:13):
No, that was great.
Thank you so much.
Speaker 2 (01:00:15):
Yeah, thank you for inviting me to talk about it.
I'm excited that people arebecoming more interested and
that the word is being spread,so we just need more and more
people talking about it, and sothe word goes around that
there's this cool thing calledozone out there.
Speaker 1 (01:00:37):
All right, dr Lindy, dr Serena, thank you so much,
Absolutely.
Speaker 2 (01:00:45):
Thank you.
So nice to see you guys.
We are going to talk aboutozone therapy today, which is
something that I really knowvery little about, nor do I
really understand how it works.
Speaker 2 (00:14):
They have been silent all day and just decided it's
okay.
Speaker 1 (00:22):
It's because they can hear the you know what it's a
dog podcast, so it's superappropriate.
It adds a little flavor to thepodcast episode.
I don't mind it at all, Um sosorry, oh man.
I have a collection right now.
What kind of dog do you have?
Speaker 2 (00:39):
Yes, I find myself accidentally rescuing dogs and
cats in need.
So I have a colony of geriatricdogs and cats.
Speaker 1 (00:51):
Well, good for you for doing that.
You just rescue them and thenhelp them live out the rest of
their years.
Speaker 2 (00:56):
Yep, I do so, being in the field, I'm in, they just
happen to come my way and yeah,so I have a soft spot for them.
Speaker 1 (01:09):
They know, they know, I know one of my big dreams is
to have, like a senior dogsanctuary, just where everybody
can go and, just, you know, liveout the rest of their lives in
peace and being cared for Well.
Kudos to you for doing that.
That's great.
Speaker 2 (01:26):
Thank you, and hopefully they don't contribute
to this podcast much more today.
It's okay.
Speaker 1 (01:32):
It's okay if they do.
Well, we're going to talk aboutozone therapy and, as I was
saying, that this is somethingthat I know very little about.
I know Dr Lindsay gave me anozone therapy shampoo many moons
ago for my dog's skin issuesand it really seemed to help.
I don't know how, but it waslike we had been using like a
(01:52):
medicated shampoo for a reallylong time and it was super
drying him out and nothing wasreally getting better.
But we you know he had had skinstuff his whole life and so we
couldn't really get to the rootof it, but this seemed to really
really help.
So we've been using that Um,but I know that it can be used
for like so many differentthings.
I was reading um, all sorts ofdifferent ailments with our pups
(02:13):
, and so I'm just curious.
I think we're just going todive in and talk about what
ozone therapy is like.
Where did it come from?
And, um, we can, you can talk alittle bit about you and how
you fell into it, and yeah, allright, For sure I like it.
Speaker 2 (02:29):
So, yeah, you are not alone, because not a lot of
people know about ozone therapyat all.
So that's kind of one of mymissions that I accidentally
found myself falling upon isspreading the word, because it's
a shame that not many peopleknow what it is and don't even
know that it's an amazing toolto not only help their own
(02:52):
health but their pet's health aswell.
So, yeah, I'll give you alittle rundown as far as how I
got into it, because I, like you, had never heard of it, no idea
about it went through vetschool Like this is not
something that you learn in vetschool or medical school and I
(03:13):
did an externship at FloridaWild Veterinary Hospital in
DeLand, florida, when I was asenior in vet school and they
had just brought ozone therapyinto the practice at that point,
so they were just sort of likedabbling with it.
Then you could tell they weren'tsure either, kind of what
(03:36):
exactly they were doing, butwere excited and hopeful that
they had it and could startusing it.
So I was just the first littlelike, hmm, what, what's this
that they're doing?
Um, and they actually had apretty intense case come through
around that time where it was alabrador that was getting um
(04:01):
receiving chemotherapy forlymphoma and he was on the
regimen where he was gettingdoxorubicin injections and, um,
there was an accidentalextravasation, meaning that that
solution leaked out of the veinand went into the subcutaneous
tissue of the limb.
(04:22):
And when that happens it isdevastating.
A lot of the times the limb hasto be amputated because the
tissue just necrosis through thebone.
Speaker 1 (04:36):
Oh right, Okay, that makes sense.
Speaker 2 (04:40):
Everyone's biggest fear when you're using this drug
or for chemotherapy.
I'm assuming it doesn't happenvery often so, or do I want to?
Yeah, so whenever vets areusing this, this chemotherapy,
there's lots of precautions andand and um kind of protocols to
prevent it from happening, butstill it happens sometimes.
(05:03):
Um, and so this dog's leg justwas swollen and inflamed and
like five times the size of theother leg.
Um, and the owners wereprepared we're going to need to
amputate this limb, and ozonetherapy was just brought into
(05:23):
the practice at that point, andso the doctors there just
started using it, injecting itaround the area that was
(05:43):
affected, giving it systemicallyas well, which we can talk
about all the different modesusing it to clean the wound.
And in the end the dog did notlose his limb, didn't ever need
to receive even have a deep, adebriding surgery, and ended up
completely healed with a fullyfunctioning limb.
So that was a bit crazy, andthat was my first like what the
heck is this?
What's going on here?
(06:04):
Yeah, so, yeah, that was myfirst little introduction to
ozone therapy, and then Ifinished vet school and I
actually got offered a job there, so I accepted and I went
straight in to practice atFlorida Wild once I graduated
Cool, and I started to dabblewith ozone as well.
(06:27):
But I wasn't there.
I just wasn't quite sure as faras what am I doing?
How is this working?
So I wasn't really seeing theseamazing effects that I was
hoping I would see and I wasn'tusing it that much cause I was
(06:48):
just a new grad, not really surewhat I was doing.
Um, but then I had theopportunity to go and have a
four day in-person training withDr Schallenberger, who is he's
a big, big ozone guy, so he is,um, yeah, so he's like the ozone
(07:11):
figure in the United States.
Um, he is a medical doctor, sohe's a he's a human physician
who's been practicing ozonetherapy, promoting it, doing
research on it, for longer thanI've been alive and um, and I
went and got to have personaltraining with him on his
(07:32):
protocols, how to do ozonetherapy.
Why is it working?
How is it working?
And that's when everythingchanged, because I really start
to to understand, um, understandthe mechanisms behind it, and
also got to realize, like holycrap, can we be doing so much
(07:53):
more with our pet patients?
Because in the human worldthey're doing amazing things
with ozone therapy.
They're doing amazing thingswith ozone therapy and it's just
not really made its way intoveterinary medicine that much
yet.
It has, but not that much yet.
(08:14):
So learning his protocols andwhat he's doing with his human
patients made me think like,well, why can't we do all that
with our pet patients, right?
So I pretty much took all thattraining and just kind of did a
lot of brainstorming andcalculations on how to modify
these doses and make it so thatit's appropriate for our
(08:36):
patients and species, and weapplied it and updated all of
our protocols at Florida wildand started seeing like
incredible results.
Um, and then it's just kepttaking off and after years of
just using it on thousands ofpatients, um, other vets are
(08:59):
starting to reach out and askfor consults.
And what are we doing?
And so, um, word started tospread and people are flying
Like we literally have clientsthat drive RVs.
Fly in like people are comingfrom out of state, flying and
driving for hours to come andreceive these types of therapies
(09:21):
, um, for their pets, so, whichis super cool, but it also makes
me a little sad because it'slike more vets should have this
to provide to their patients.
So then that led me to develop.
Me and my business partner, drHolder, who was the owner of
(09:44):
Florida Wild, we developedAnimal Ozone Therapies, which is
an online educational platformthat provides education to
veterinarians and protocols onhow to start ozone therapy, how
to bring it into your practiceand how to use it safely and
effectively with your patients.
(10:05):
So that's kind of my story asfar as how I got into it, and
it's just sort of one of thosethings that happened.
I definitely didn't go to vetschool thinking, oh, I can't
wait to learn about ozone and tolearn about ozone and treatment
(10:30):
, right, like what even is it?
So yeah, so I'm happy to godown the road to actually
explain what it actually is aswell.
Yeah, right, that's great.
Okay, so what is ozone?
What is ozone?
Speaker 1 (10:41):
Yeah, when I say it, it still, for whatever reason,
makes me think of, which is'sstill for whatever reason, makes
me think of, which iscompletely unrelated, but it
makes me think of, like michaeljackson in a hypobaric oxygen
chamber and I don't know, allright in the 80s, which is now
not, not even something someonewould blink at now, but for
whatever reason.
That's when someone says oh, Idon't know if they do have
(11:04):
anything to do with each other.
Speaker 2 (11:06):
It does actually so I like that.
Speaker 1 (11:10):
That's where your brain went.
I wasn't expecting that, so itwasn't so far off.
Yeah, we gave him so much crapfor that, but you know who knew.
Speaker 2 (11:21):
Yeah, I wasn't expecting you to say that's
where your brain goes when youhear ozone, but I like it.
Speaker 1 (11:27):
It's been weighing on my head.
Speaker 2 (11:30):
Because ozone is a type of oxygen therapy.
Um, first of all, it's a loteasier to administer and to give
(11:56):
these treatments rather thanputting a patient in this loud,
claustrophobic machine whereit's incredibly scary and
stressful and they have to sitin there for hours while a nurse
has to stand there and monitorthem and make sure they're not
having alternative like sideeffects and interesting, and
(12:21):
making sure they're doing okay,they're not like having
respiratory issues.
And then also it does kind ofstimulate more of a free radical
response, hyperbaric chambers,whereas ozone is, I guess, a
(12:44):
gentler free radical stimulationwhich we can talk a little bit
about.
So yeah, so I overall thinkozone is the better route to go,
but hyperbaric does have a lotof similar beneficial effects,
though at the same time.
So all right.
(13:09):
So ozone is it's literally threeoxygen molecules that are bound
together.
So the air that we breathe, theoxygen in the air that we
breathe, those are two oxygenatoms bound together.
That's how oxygen likes to be.
It likes to be a couple, so twotogether.
So when three are boundtogether, they're sharing an
(13:31):
electron which makes thatmolecule unstable.
So that molecule doesn't wantto be three, it wants to be two,
so it wants to get rid of thatthird oxygen atom, rid of that
(13:51):
third oxygen atom.
So where this is beneficial iswhen it's exposed to what I call
like a biomolecule.
So in, for example, to ourblood, the surface of a wound,
our skin, it's gonna immediatelydonate that oxygen to a
biomolecule to bind to it andthen a whole cascade of events
(14:13):
occur after that.
So it pretty much willstimulate, um the like a
catabolic enzymatic reactionwithin the cells to kind of go
out a process which there's justmultiple, multiple different
cascades that it can stimulate.
(14:34):
But for some of the most commonthings that it does is it
increases the ATB production ofmitochondria.
So what that means is that itincreases the cell's ability to
produce energy and that energyis incredibly important for
(14:55):
immune function, for bodysystems, for overall organ
function and one of the mostacross the board, any chronic
disease is shown to havedecreased mitochondrial function
.
So being able to increase themitochondrial function in these
(15:15):
patients can automatically bevery helpful.
Thing it's really good atstimulating is increasing the
red blood cells ability totransport oxygen to areas in
need.
So if there's an area in thebody that is low in oxygen or
(15:36):
ischemic, it is going to be moredrawn to that area and want to
bring more oxygen to that area.
So it can really be incrediblyuseful for cardiac situations,
kidney disease, pretty much anydisease process where there's a
(16:00):
decreased oxygen input to anarea, which also is a really
common denominator for mostchronic diseases there's
decreased oxygen flow in thatbody system or that organ.
And another cool thing too isit increases the elasticity of
the red blood cells.
(16:21):
So those little, little tiny,tiny vessels, those tiny
capillaries um, where blood willhave trouble perfusing, in
those areas with ozone therapyit allows them to be a little
bit more bouncy and squishy andget through in those tiny, tiny
areas.
So, again, increasing oxygendelivery to those areas.
(16:52):
Because they need this mightjust sound like a silly question
, but because we need oxygen toheal, right, absolutely.
We need oxygen to live.
Yeah, yes, yeah.
Speaker 1 (16:59):
For sure this might be a bit off topic, but what
causes reduced oxygen flow to acertain?
Speaker 2 (17:06):
area.
Yeah, so inflammation is goingto be like the biggest, broadest
answer to that decreasedfunction of those vessels and
decreased ability to justefficiently get the energy and
(17:27):
get the oxygen to those thattissue, and then they can get
stuck in a vicious cycle andthen that the function gets
worse and then the oxygen levelsget worse and then the
inflammation then gets worse.
So pretty much chronic diseaseis just any patient, pretty much
, that walks through the doorthat's over five years old has
(17:50):
some degree of of chronicdisease these days, which is a
shame, but it's just they.
They get in these viciouscycles and that's why we're
seeing one of many reasons whywe're just seeing so much
cancers and so much liverdisease and kidney failures and
autoimmune diseases.
(18:11):
They're so common and it'ssomething we deal with on a
regular basis as vets.
It's just normal.
It's normal to deal with thison a daily basis.
But having this therapy, Is itpretty accepted that that's for
a lot of veterinarians thatthat's just what you're going to
see, oh, yeah, big time Likegoing to vet school you learn
(18:38):
how to treat these diseases, howto diagnose and treat all these
diseases, how to diagnose andtreat all these diseases.
But I really didn't appreciatereally truly understanding how
to truly prevent most of thesediseases.
So sure, we learn aboutvaccines to prevent getting
(18:59):
parvovirus and things like that,which of course is important,
but really it gets kind of deepand complicated and lots of
different opinions andcontroversies when it comes to
what is actually causing allthis disease in our patients.
So I sort of started divingdown that once I graduated yeah,
(19:23):
and I still am.
I mean, there's there's so muchto learn.
Speaker 1 (19:28):
Sure, I bet, I bet.
I think I interrupted you whenyou were talking about so.
So what was my next question?
Speaker 3 (19:41):
I took you off.
I think like one of the like, Ithink one of the other things
that might be fun, serena, foryou to explain a bit more too,
because people are usually likeI can't believe that, Like, how
does that work?
Is the fact that ozone isantiviral and antifungal, so
like it basically is able tosupport the cells of our body in
a healthy way while alsonegatively impacting things that
(20:03):
we don't necessarily want to bethere.
Speaker 2 (20:06):
Yeah for sure, that's a big one and that's pretty
much one of the craziest thingsabout ozone and what makes it so
unique as well.
Because direct contact of ozonewith any pathogens so virus,
bacteria, protozoa, cancer cells, fungi it damages their cell
(20:31):
wall and literally punches holesin their cell wall, resulting
in death of that pathogen Wow.
But it does not do that tocomplex organisms I can't just
say mammals, because it'shelpful for avians and reptiles
and things like that as well,but it's beneficial to our cells
(20:55):
and their cells and it's notcaustic.
So, for example, like bleachwill also do those things that a
very concentrated bleach willalso kill all those pathogens.
But if you put that bleach onyour skin to kill all those
(21:16):
pathogens, it's going to killall the cells on your skin as
well.
So that's where ozone is sounique, because there's no
resistance, no antibiotic.
So the bacteria that hasantibiotic resistance there's no
resistance to ozone.
There's no pathogen out therethat can combat ozone, that can
(21:38):
survive exposure to ozone, andthis is huge because antibiotic
resistance is becoming more andmore of a huge problem globally.
Yeah, for pets and people.
Yeah for sure Big time.
And veterinarians areresponsible for contributing to
(22:01):
that.
So we need to kind of reel inour antibiotic use a bit, and
this is a great way to safelytreat bacterial infections while
not having to use antibiotics.
So yeah, this is super cool.
One of the crazy cool weirdthings about ozone.
Speaker 1 (22:24):
So how did you have a question, Dr Lindsay?
Speaker 3 (22:27):
I did.
One thing I have wondered isthe differentiation between,
like a cancer cell and a healthycell, because then we're still
taking, like you know, likenormal mammalian cells, just for
the sake of the example.
How is ozone able to negativelyaffect the cancer but then not
negatively impact the healthycells?
Speaker 2 (22:47):
So cancer cells thrive in anaerobic environments
.
So cancer cells hate oxygen.
They do not do well inoxygen-rich environments.
So when we're exposing them tothese extreme levels of oxygen
(23:08):
they actually can't survive.
They can't thrive.
They do better the less oxygen,the more they can grow, the
faster they can grow.
So when you saturate them withhigh levels of oxygen it takes
them down a notch and they can'tthrive in that environment.
So yeah, it's cool stuff forsure.
Speaker 1 (23:33):
It's super cool stuff .
So how is it?
How do you get the?
I mean technical question, buthow do you get the ozone oxygen
therapy into the body?
Speaker 2 (23:45):
Yep, these are all great questions.
Speaker 1 (23:48):
And where you want it to go specifically.
Speaker 2 (23:50):
Yeah, yeah, these are great, great questions.
All right, so you need to getan ozone generator.
There are a ton of companiesout there that make ozone
generators.
Um, the majority of them aremarketed for human use human
patient use and like humanpractitioners but there are a
(24:13):
couple companies that arespecifically sold and
manufactured for veterinarians.
So the two that I'm mostfamiliar with is going to be O3
Vets and then RegenerO3 is anewer one, be O3 Vets and then
(24:34):
Regener-O3 is a newer one.
They are specifically producingthese machines and products for
veterinarians.
So if you're a vet, you getkind of set up with them and
they'll get you set up with yourgenerator and teach you how to
use it.
So once you get that generator,what it does is it literally
produces ozone by having pureoxygen.
(24:56):
So you have a pure oxygen tankset up and then it runs through
this generator and it goesthrough a certain type of
electrical force that then hasthese oxygens combine into ozone
.
There's different settings sothat you can have different
(25:18):
concentrations, and that's whereit comes down to importance of
using concentrationsappropriately, because you don't
want to.
If you use an incrediblyconcentrated form of ozone, it
is going to be a bit irritatingto the cells of the patient.
(25:39):
So you just need to use theappropriate concentration
depending on how it's beinggiven.
Concentration depending on howit's being given, and what that
means is just the amount ofozone to oxygen.
So you're going to be usingozone oxygen mixture when you're
using it and then, as far asprotocols, you will need some
(26:05):
guidance on and kind someguidance on which protocols will
be appropriate.
But the most common ways toadminister ozone is going to be
major auto-hemotherapy is whatit's called and this is when
blood is drawn from the patient.
(26:25):
It's then mixed with ozone gas,so it's gently, kind of just
rocked back and forth in asyringe or a bag with this gas
and only needs to be rocked fora minute or so and it's, and it
saturates that blood.
(26:46):
So you'll literally watch.
It's a really cool thing toactually see because you'll
watch this dark, dark, darkblood get put in the bag and
then, as soon as you startmixing it, it starts getting red
and red and redder and by theend it's like neon red, like
this beautiful, bright, thrivingred.
(27:07):
Happy healthy red, yeah, coolyeah.
And then you inject thatozonated blood back into the
patient intravenously.
Wow, so that's one form.
That's a systemic way toadminister ozone.
Another systemic way toadminister ozone is rectal
(27:31):
insufflation.
So that consists of literallyjust giving an enema of gas up
the bum.
Owners are sometimes when Iexplain to them what it is,
they're like oh, I don't knowabout that, but it's honestly,
it's so easy, it's so welltolerated, it's the.
(27:54):
The patients tolerate it sowell, like minimal to no stress
at all.
Um does not require needles orpokes or anything like that.
And it's fast, it's easy andactually you're able to get
really nice systemic doses inthese patients with erectile
insufflation.
So that is a big one that Ihighly encourage and push like
(28:19):
newer ozone users to start doing, because it's just the easiest
and most straightforward way tostart helping your patients.
Speaker 1 (28:30):
So this is all something that you have to do
with a veterinarian.
This is not something that youwould do on your own, obviously.
So, oh, everybody seems alittle on the fence about this,
yeah, so Maybe it depends onwhat the issue is Like.
If I have a dog with, like,chronic ear infections, is that
something I can administer tothem on their own?
(28:51):
I mean, I know I had a topicalshampoo.
Speaker 2 (28:53):
It's a little bit different, but yeah, so so I'll
answer that in a couple ways.
So you're mentioning the earinfections.
So you can also saturatesolutions with ozone and then
use that solution as rinses andas cleaners.
And there's special glassbeakers that you can have hooked
up to your machine that whoeveryou bought your machine from
(29:16):
can set you up with that.
But pretty much it's going to bedistilled water or like saline
and you just run the ozonethrough a bubbler through that
and it saturates that solutionand then you use that solution
to like clean the ears, forexample, and do ear rinses if
you're having ear infectionproblems.
(29:38):
But as far as doing ozone athome, this is something that pet
owners absolutely can do.
Yep, they can administer ozoneat home to their pets.
I just am very careful aboutmaking sure that these owners
(30:05):
have a relationship with aveterinarian and guidance from a
veterinarian who is comfortableand familiar with ozone therapy
, because you can overdo it.
There are things that pet ownerscan accidentally end up doing
(30:25):
harm rather than good if theydon't have the proper guidance
doing harm rather than good ifthey don't have the proper
guidance.
And for the pet's sake, butalso for ozone therapy's sake,
it's just so important that wedo this right and carefully so
that there's no accidental kindof mishap that will make people
have this fear of ozone, whichis so unnecessary.
(30:46):
So it's just important we havesafe protocols and guidelines in
place, um, so that ozone cancontinue to grow, um, and people
can continue to be comfortablewith it and and use it more.
But, um, yeah, um, doing ozoneat home is definitely something
that, um, ozone at home isdefinitely something that I will
(31:12):
have my clients do, especiallyin chronic cases where they
really need to have it, receiveit multiple times a week.
Speaker 3 (31:21):
Yeah, and just to clarify, and, Serena, I'm
curious your answer on thisbecause I do know a few pet
parents that had ozone machinesbefore I started working with
them and, interestingly enough,as humans they had been dealing
with their own Lyme diseaseissues and it's a really, really
big modality in the Lymecommunity.
So I have found at least humanwise people that have awareness
(31:44):
of that are very quick to wantto implement it into the
treatment protocols for theirfur kids.
Outside of so rectal is usuallyhow I have seen pet parents
administer it at home.
Serena, is there anything else?
Because, like I just want tomake sure people don't think
that they would ever be doinglike the major auto chemotherapy
at home.
Speaker 1 (32:04):
So they would only be doing like blood out and like
blood and mix it.
Speaker 3 (32:09):
Yeah, so it's usually like rectal insufflation, but I
know I've also seen, likeCharlotte, your question about
ear infections.
There's actually little earcones that go over so and the
ozone has to go through a oilkind of bubbler to be able to
convert it to a form that's safeif you do inhale it because you
(32:31):
don't want to be.
That's where I think a lot ofthe misconceptions of ozone come
from, which is one of thethings I wanted us to talk about
, because people hear ozone andthey think of like those old air
purifiers from the 90s or thefact that it's like damaging to
the lungs or to breathing, butit's all just, like serena was
saying, having awareness of howto do it safely and properly.
So are there other like do youhave clients ever do the ear
(32:56):
insufflation like the little earcones at home?
Speaker 2 (32:57):
So typically not really Um, there are.
So I I personally like at at umat work.
I I don't do the earinsufflation very often.
I have a lot of ozonecolleagues and friends
throughout the world who use itregularly and love it, but I
(33:23):
typically don't because of theoil.
So if you run it through theoil, it is going to be safer
because you're not going to havethat caustic effect on the
airways, and running it throughoil just is one more extra step
(33:46):
and one more it's just it's muchmore time consuming and also
you just have to be very carefulbecause the oil can heat up and
there can be backs up andpressures and so things can go
wrong with, like explosions andthings like that.
So if, if you really know whatyou're doing and you know how to
(34:07):
work this machine and you knowit inside and out and you
understand the science behind itand the mechanics behind it,
then great, like go for it.
But I'm personally veryuncomfortable having a client
running this through an oilbubbler at home, um, cause I
feel like things could go wrong,um, and then the other thing is
(34:31):
you don't have to run itthrough um a bubbler If you just
use a very low volume of ozone.
You can just fill the canal andkind of just hold it off, but
it's really important that youconfirm that their eardrum's
intact and a lot of the timesthat can be hard to confirm and
just like a really inflamed,painful ear.
(34:53):
So, um, that's where I just gostraight to using the solutions.
Um, it seems to be tolerated,the best and and and effective.
So I will have owners likebubble their own distilled water
and use that to rinse the ears.
But yeah, I know some peopleuse the ear cuffs and swear by
(35:16):
it, but I kind of strayed awayfrom that.
Speaker 1 (35:21):
That sounds too scary for me.
Speaker 2 (35:25):
Yeah, I don't mean to scare you.
Speaker 1 (35:27):
Yeah, I don't mean to scare you, yeah, so when done
properly, there are no sideeffects with ozone therapy.
Speaker 2 (35:37):
So correct.
So to kind of sum that up, sideeffects are pretty much rare to
none.
Okay, a few situations where Irecommend not reaching for ozone
therapy are pretty kind ofstraightforward.
(35:58):
If a patient is unstable andactively at risk of dying for
any reason, stabilize thatpatient and then think about
ozone Pretty muchstraightforward.
If it's hemorrhaging, figureout why it's hemorrhaging, stop
that and then reach for theozone.
(36:19):
Because, believe it or not,some people will just be like
how can ozone fix this?
Like we can't fix every singlething with it.
But ozone can help with redblood cell regeneration.
So like it will becomebeneficial once you stabilize
and get that patient, um, in astable situation.
(36:40):
Um, you don't want to breathe itin, so, um, that's where the um
, having the gas, putting thegas in the ears.
Why I stray away from that isbecause it'll leak into ambient
air a bit and your staff willbreathe it in a little, and the
pet will breathe it in a little,and a tiny bit is fine, you'll
(37:02):
smell it and it doesn't smellthe greatest Um.
But once you smell it, you'll,you'll know it, um, and if
enough is breathed in, it willcause bronchospasm.
So you smell it, you'll, you'llknow it, um, and if enough is
breathed in, it will causebronchospasm.
So you'll just you'll cough, um.
And if you for some reasonaccidentally inhale like a
really high potent, concentrateddose, yeah, that's going to
(37:24):
give you a really nasty coughingfit, um, but the way the ozone
is handled and and drawn up andtransported into their
situations, there there's noleakage.
So it's not normal to to haveto breathe it in.
Like, if you, if you smell it,there's a leak somewhere, you
(37:46):
find that leak and you fix theproblem, um, so, yeah, so you
want to avoid inhaling it, um, Ialso advise veterinarians to be
cautious.
If you, if they have ahyperthyroid cat who, um, is
(38:07):
unmanaged, so is their thyroidlevel super high and they're
having all these symptomsshowing that they're going into,
like, hyperthyroid crisis, youwant to avoid ozone on those
patients because hyperthyroidismis the metabolism and metabolic
functions amped up, and ozoneamps up metabolic functions, so
(38:31):
it can sometimes tip them overthe edge.
If you do ozone on those catsthat are riding the edge, now,
it's not contraindicated to doon hyperthyroid cats who are
managed, that is fine.
But if they're unmanaged and ina severe kind of hyperthyroid
(38:52):
state, you want to avoid it inthem and then let's see.
I think the only other one Iadvise using caution is using on
pregnant animals, and it's notbecause bad things have ever
happened using it on pregnantanimals, it's just that the
(39:13):
research is a little bit limitedright now for use with
pregnancy.
So I know, like the conferencesI go to on ozone therapy, there
are physicians human physiciansthat talk about how they use
ozone therapy on pregnant women,like it's it's used on pregnant
(39:35):
patients, um, but I just sayuse caution because there's just
not enough research out thereto back us up.
So if, say, it's used on a veryexpensive bitch and she for some
reason aborts a million-dollarlitter.
For another reason, we don'twant ozone to be blamed for that
(39:57):
.
We've got to protect thistherapy.
So we just want to be cautiouswith that until we have enough
data out there that supports thesafety use in pregnant animals.
But that does also bring mearound to that.
There are thousands of research, published studies on ozone
(40:17):
therapy.
This is a well-studied therapy.
This isn't some brand new thingthat just started being used.
There's a lot of science, a lotof supportive data on um, on
its use, its efficacy, why itworks, how it works.
Um, there's so much more to go,but um, we already we we have a
(40:40):
lot of data to back us up.
Speaker 1 (40:43):
That's great.
When did it?
When did it come into fashionis the wrong word, but when was
it essentially discovered?
Or how long have people beenusing ozone therapy?
Speaker 2 (40:55):
Oh boy.
I don't know if you have theanswer to this question.
So the first medical ozonegenerator was developed in the
1800s.
Wow, yeah, so that's when itfirst kind of started and was
developed and it got into liketrauma units where it was
(41:20):
starting to be used for woundslike soldiers from the war it
was being used for that, andthen a little bit in dentistry
is where it started to be used.
And then antibiotics werediscovered, um, and so ozone
(41:40):
kind of took a bit of a backburner because antibiotics were
a bit easier and could bepatented and put in bottles and
shelves and sold and distributedUm but um.
But it continued to um, growand um.
And today there's at least 50professional medical ozone
(42:03):
associations and groupsthroughout the world.
Um, biggest ozone areas areCuba, Europe, Russia, South
America.
Speaker 1 (42:21):
Yeah, those are the so everywhere, but here
essentially, yeah, it's anotherone of those things that's been
around for quite some time.
Speaker 2 (42:52):
In Europe.
Yeah, but not's another one ofthose things that's been around
for quite some time in Europe,but not here patients.
So most ERs, most physicians,have ozone generators and use it
as part of their treatmentmodalities.
It's not considered analternative or an integrative as
part of their mainstaytreatments.
And pretty much and ozone isused a lot in the US as well.
But one of the reasons why it'snot used as much here as it is
in those areas is becauseinsurance doesn't cover it and
(43:17):
pretty much it doesn't cover itbecause it's not FDA approved,
because it can't be patentedLike you can't patent a molecule
Like you can't, you can'tpatent a molecule so Interesting
, yeah, so therefore, insurancewon't cover it.
So all the humans that receiveozone therapy here in the States
(43:42):
it's all out of pocket.
But in vet med most I mean.
I know there are someinsurances and that people will
get insurances on their pets andit's great, but a lot of people
don't and they pay out ofpocket for their pet's health
care.
Yeah, so I do find it's, Iguess, a little bit easier to
(44:03):
have a client pay for ozone fortheir pet than it is to kind of
have them pay for it for theirown health care for some reason,
I think we found that in thispodcast across the board for so
many things.
Speaker 1 (44:16):
It's so much easier to like.
I mean, I could say that formyself.
I said before my dog gets ahost of supplements and I can
barely remember to take myvitamin D on my own, but he gets
it all.
I don't forget his ever.
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (44:29):
Yeah, I think that is incredibly common Um we're all
guilty of it, and our staff too.
At work they always admit um,we have, we.
We go above and beyond for ourpets and sort of forget about
ourselves sometimes.
But we got to remember to takecare of ourselves too.
But yeah, I'm incredibly guiltyof that as well.
Speaker 1 (44:51):
Yeah dr lindy, did you have any more questions?
I'm sure you did I do.
Speaker 3 (44:59):
Um, so I one of the big questions I had.
So, similar to you, serena, Igot into ozone a few years ago,
nowhere near the depths that youhave, so I have been utilizing
it myself and I have seenamazing results.
And one thing, just so thatpeople understand how easy
rectal insufflation is I havetwo cats that I treat at home,
(45:20):
that I give rectal insufflationto on a regular basis, and they
barely even notice.
We give them a little lickabletreat.
They lick it.
It's I almost think it's easier, for whatever reason, than
having their temperature taken,and I cannot tell you exactly
why, but there's, they reactmore to temperatures being taken
than that.
So just for anyone that thinks,like my, my pet would never
(45:42):
accept that you'd be surprised.
But one question I did have waswith the frequency.
So when I was first gettinginto it, I know that I had a
veterinarian tell me you need tobe giving antioxidants every
time you do an ozone treatment.
So just, I think there's someprobably misconceptions that are
(46:02):
floating around.
So I was curious to get youropinion on that.
Like, how frequently can we useit in chronic cases?
Do we need to be givinganything to combat the free
radicals that are being formed,kind of any sage advice you have
for those of us that are juststarting to get into it.
Speaker 2 (46:19):
So that is interesting.
So giving an antioxidant ifyou're using ozone, so I don't.
I like antioxidants, so I don'tthink that's a bad idea.
Like supplements and diet, it'sso important in the just the
holistic approach of helping ourpets.
But is it like something thatis you have to have if you're
(46:48):
doing ozone therapy?
I'd go with no.
But can it be a helpfuladditional tool?
Yes, absolutely.
But the important thing is that,um, so giving the antioxidants,
you actually want to stopgiving them for a couple days
(47:09):
before you do the ozone, becauseif their systems are floating
around a ton of antioxidants,it's going to cancel out that
ozone.
So it's not going to hurt thepatient that it's there, but the
patient's just going to get amuch lower dose than what you
actually administered Becauseall those antioxidants are just
going to cancel it out.
(47:30):
So if your patient is receivinga bunch of antioxidants as part
of their protocol andsupplements, it's best to hold
off on them for a couple days Imean at least 24 hours, I would
say before administering theozone, and then you can start it
right up immediately aftergiving the ozone.
(47:52):
But one of the really coolthings about ozone is that, yes,
it's a free radical, but it isthe gentlest of the free
radicals and pretty much whatit's doing is it's actually
(48:17):
stimulating the body's naturalability to produce its own
antioxidants.
So it's actually kind ofcorrecting and fixing the immune
system and the body's ownprotective mechanisms.
So if you are giving ozoneregularly low-dose ozone on a
regular basis, like your cats,they're systems being trained to
amp up their own antioxidantproduction.
(48:38):
So they really shouldn't needantioxidants after they receive
ozone for a period of time,because their body is already
creating it.
Speaker 3 (48:51):
Well, that's awesome.
And then in those chronic caseslike inflammatory bowel disease
or, you know, pancreatitis orwhat have you, I mean, can we be
giving let's like rectalinsufflation twice a week,
ongoing Like is there?
Because I know there's probablya point at which even something
that's like rectal insufflationtwice a week, ongoing Like is
there, because I know there'sprobably a point at which even
something that's incrediblyhelpful can cross over to maybe
having some detrimental sideeffects.
(49:12):
Is it on a per patient basis orfrequency of administration?
Speaker 2 (49:16):
For sure.
So everything, when it comesdown to it, I always say every
patient is their own individualand we will.
We will approach this patientas their own individual and we
will.
We will approach this patientas their own and modify the plan
as we go to be the best forthis specific patient.
But in the the overrun um, ifthey have a chronic disease that
(49:38):
they will have the rest oftheir life um doing, I put them
on maintenance plans.
So I'll hit them with higherdose, frequent ozone to get them
out of that like crisis viciouscycle mode and then, once we
have that managed and we're goodand we're like in a good,
(49:59):
smooth maintenance phase, I'llput them on maintenance to kind
of keep them there and then iffor some reason they fall out
and they start to go back downthat spiral, then I'll amp them
up and do higher dose morefrequently and then wean them
down to a maintenance.
So when I say maintenance, a lotof the times I can get away
(50:23):
with every other week rectalinsufflation.
I have a lot of patients thatcome in just once a month for
their maintenance.
Some just need to have once aweek, twice a week is fine as
well If we're doing like fivedays a week, then we just need
(50:47):
to give.
We need to give them a break.
So if we do it that often, themucosa and the rectum's just
gonna get a bit irritated.
We need to give the mucosa achance to kind of regenerate and
heal and not be kind ofirritated that often.
If yeah, so if you do it thatfrequently, it can be a little
(51:11):
caustic to that mucosa.
So, yeah, every patient hastheir own maintenance plan that
I developed for them based onhow they respond and how they
tell us they need it.
Speaker 3 (51:23):
So how they respond and how they tell us they need
it.
And then this is really specific.
But I think two of the issuesthat I've seen a lot of animals
have where it is hard to givethem a good treatment option I
know a lot of, you know petparents get frustrated by our
(51:44):
penovasculitis and then likeunclassified alopecia.
So for the pet parents out there, like for the little chihuahuas
or, you know, minpins that havea loss of hair just on the edge
of their ears because I knowthat's really concerning and
there's not necessarily the youknow the best treatment options
out there like even when I sendthem to dermatologists,
sometimes we'll get themstabilized where they are, but
(52:05):
we very rarely get any hairregrowth.
And then the same is true likealopecia, is them just losing
hair.
So a lot of Pomeranians peoplewill see well, they'll have hair
on their legs and on their headand their body is, you know,
bald or balding.
Have you used ozone in any ofthose cases?
When you were talking about,like, how well the red blood
cells get to all of those areasof capillaries, the first thing
(52:28):
I thought of was thepenovasculitis and I was just
curious.
Speaker 2 (52:31):
That is.
That is very interesting.
So no, I really haven't um withthese alopecia cases.
Um, it's I find that everyoneI've dealt with or most of them
are are cosmetic, like it's nota health issue at all for them,
like it's not causing them pain,discomfort, like there's really
(52:51):
no issue.
They just look funny.
So yeah.
So I typically my owners arejust like is this really hurting
them?
Like do we really have to dothings to fix this, because they
could care less that they havethese bald spots.
So I really haven't had anyowners that are like I need this
fixed.
But that is interesting.
(53:12):
So if you have those owners, dosome ozone and let me know
because you got to write thatpaper up if that works, because
I haven't heard of anyone usingit on those cases before.
That'll be cool.
Speaker 3 (53:28):
I will.
Yeah, I'll definitely keep thatin mind.
I would love to see more.
So I guess this is kind of aquestion branching out beyond
pet parents.
But like, how do we help someof our more conventional
colleagues, like oncologists anddermatologists and internal
medicine specialists, start toincorporate this when there is
so much scientific literature?
Because I feel like what I hearfrom a lot of people that are
(53:49):
conventionally trained isthere's not enough science for
me to start integrating blank in.
Like we face that a lot withcannabis, but I don't think that
that applies to ozone.
There's so much science Forsure.
So, like, is there anythingthat?
Speaker 2 (54:04):
we can do.
There's so much science Forsure.
So, like, is there anythingthat we can do?
Yeah, so I'm glad you askedthis, because this has been my
kind of thing too.
I'm like why, why aren't weusing this?
Why aren't we being taught thisin vet school?
Why doesn't every veterinarianhave an ozone machine in their
clinic?
So what?
(54:25):
And others are asking thatquestion as well.
So there are a few likecolleagues and ozone friends
mostly, who I hooked up with andand met with at the holistic
conference.
So where we met and there theyhave that same question and
dilemma as well, and they havethat same question and dilemma
(54:47):
as well.
So I know Jill Rubin.
She's one of the ones.
She owns Regenero3, one of thecompanies.
She has been talking with UCDavis on trying to get in there
and start to introduce ozonetherapy into even their
curriculum a little bit.
(55:09):
And that's where I think thegame changer will be.
Vets aren't open to it becausewe're not taught it in vet
school.
So therefore it must not belike validated and real.
So I think if we can get intosome universities, that's when
it's going to be more accepted.
Um cause, if the universitiesback it up and accept it, then
(55:29):
then everyone else will.
They won't be as scared, theywon't be as skeptical because,
um, cause, the universitiesaccept it and that's when we
learn from and they'rerespectable sources, which is
true.
So if we, if we can get intouniversities, that's, that's, I
think, going to be the gamechanger.
So, yeah, so I'm hoping to tryand just even do some, just some
(55:55):
talks at like.
I know a lot of universitieshave integrative clubs and even
though, like it's a little bitof a pet peeve of mine to call
this an integrative therapy,because like it really shouldn't
be, but that's where we'regonna get in because, um,
because it's not accepted yet asa, as a mainstay therapy, um.
(56:16):
So may I ask?
Speaker 1 (56:18):
is integrative.
The same thing as like ifsomeone said it was a
complementary therapy yeah, forsure so we're saying that this
is not just complementary, thisis a tried and true therapy.
Speaker 2 (56:27):
Yeah, correct.
Yeah, I mean I'd like for it tobe more accepted as a mainstay,
but it is a complementary.
It is because it does make yourdrugs work better.
It does reduce side effects ofyour drugs.
You use it with your mainstaytreatments.
It does reduce side effects ofyour drugs.
You use it with your mainstaytreatments.
But I know a lot of traditionalWestern trained vets are very
(56:51):
put off by the word likeintegrative, complementary.
So I try to be careful aboutthrowing those terms out when
I'm trying to talk to thetraditionally trained vets
(57:13):
because, um, I'm hoping thiskind of comes across as a
studied validated provenscientific source of or mode of
treatment.
Um, yeah, and I really thinkonce, once the universities
accept it, then then we're goingto be golden.
Before we know it, everyone'sgoing to have ozone generators.
We'll see.
Speaker 3 (57:33):
That's great.
And then for pet parents thatare looking you know if they're
a veterinarian, because most ofthe time their veterinarians
will not be offering this how doyou recommend that they find
practitioners near them that maybe offering this, if they are
having chronic health issuesthat they're trying to sign up?
Speaker 2 (57:48):
for.
Speaker 3 (57:49):
Yeah, that is a great question.
Speaker 2 (57:51):
So it's a little bit tough.
So, honestly, doing a Googlesearch and literally typing in
ozone vet, you can sometimescome up with personal websites
of vets that have that as amodality.
Another resource is O3.
Vets is the company that sellsto a lot of veterinarians who do
(58:16):
ozone in the States, so theyhave like a list of the people
who have purchased theirmachines and you could maybe get
connected through that Um.
So it's out there like more andmore and more vets are are
using it.
Um, but some areas it's.
(58:38):
It's going to be tough to find avet.
That's that's close.
So I would be prepared to maybehave to travel to at least just
get established with that vetand then, once you're
established, they can maybe setup protocols for you to do at
home.
And then I always recommenddoing follow-ups.
(58:59):
It doesn't have to be likeevery week, but it's important
to touch base and update theprotocols and not just stick
with one thing long-term for therest of their life, because we
change and so we just have toadapt our therapies as the
patient adapts.
Speaker 1 (59:19):
I think the shampoo that we were using is O3.
Is that what you said?
It is yeah.
Speaker 3 (59:25):
Yeah, it's.
Speaker 1 (59:25):
O3.
You can just get that on Amazonif anyone's looking for a
shampoo ozone therapy shampoofor their pup to help with some
skin stuff.
Speaker 2 (59:33):
Yeah, there's also oils and topicals too, so like
ointments that you can getonline as well.
Can you use those for like hotspots?
Exactly, yeah.
Speaker 1 (59:47):
I have a guy who just keeps getting these chronic hot
spots and I didn't think ofthat, I did not think of ozone.
So I am going to go look forthat right now, after we get off
this conversation, because Iwant to make it.
We need to get to the rootcause of why you keep getting
these hot spots, which is awhole other thing.
But, yeah, good, interesting,okay, good, all right, you guys,
(01:00:12):
well, anything else that youwant to add?
Speaker 3 (01:00:13):
No, that was great.
Thank you so much.
Speaker 2 (01:00:15):
Yeah, thank you for inviting me to talk about it.
I'm excited that people arebecoming more interested and
that the word is being spread,so we just need more and more
people talking about it, and sothe word goes around that
there's this cool thing calledozone out there.
Speaker 1 (01:00:37):
All right, dr Lindy, dr Serena, thank you so much,
Absolutely.
Speaker 2 (01:00:45):
Thank you.
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