March 5, 2024 • 24 mins
In this episode I am joined by Chris Lynch. Chris is an award wining author of several highly acclaimed young adult novels and a national book award finalist . He joins me to talk about his latest middle grade novel, Walkin' the Dog ( released March 12) which is a moving story about a young boy and the life lessons he learns from his four-legged friends and the unexpected paths they lead him on. Chris also shares his own stories of the guidance and lessons he has learned from the loved dogs in his life.
Resources:
https://www.simonandschuster.com/books/Walkin-the-Dog/Chris-Lynch/9781481459204
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*This podcast is for informational purposes only, even if, and regardless of whether it features the advice of veterinarians or professional dog trainers. It is not, nor is it intended to be a substitute for professional veterinary care or personalized canine behavior advice and should not be used as so. The views expressed in this podcast are solely those of the podcast author or the individual views of those participating in the podcast.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
That's Selkie.
Speaker 2 (00:02):
Hi, selkie, selkie, Hi, what kind of puppy is she?
Speaker 1 (00:09):
A lurcher Greyhound Saluki mix.
Speaker 2 (00:13):
A lurcher, okay, okay , I was going to say she looks
like a wire hair greyhound to me.
Speaker 1 (00:19):
I've never heard of a lurcher.
Saluki gives her the hair, it'sgorgeous.
Speaker 2 (00:23):
How old is she?
Speaker 1 (00:24):
Three and a half.
Speaker 2 (00:26):
Okay, she's still young.
Is she your only puppy?
Speaker 1 (00:30):
She is as of now.
We just had to put one downabout a month ago.
He's actually.
I don't know if you've seen theactual copy of the book, but
he's in my.
He's in my, my author photoTexting.
Speaker 2 (00:46):
How old was he?
May I ask?
Speaker 1 (00:49):
13 and a half.
Speaker 2 (00:50):
Okay, he had a nice life, a nice long life.
He did.
Yeah, the end was hard though.
Yeah, it's always it's.
It's super tough and I'm sorrythat you're going through that,
and I know it.
It has its moments, you know,but I'm sure he had a wonderful
life with you.
Speaker 1 (01:10):
Yeah, it was great it was.
It was better for me than itwas for him.
Speaker 2 (01:13):
Yeah, how's she faring with the loss?
Speaker 1 (01:19):
She's doing.
Okay, yeah, she's.
She's not unaffected.
The first week she was likehaving accidents in the night,
interesting On the floor, whichshe hadn't done for a while.
Speaker 2 (01:32):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (01:35):
And I would say that she seems a little bit more shy
now because she always had decks.
She's never.
She was never alone, ever.
Yeah, because even when we gother at the rescue place she was
there with her brother.
So and we got it Okay At 11weeks and then we brought her
home from home and then she wasdexterous sidecar.
Speaker 2 (01:57):
Little sister sidekick, so she's always had
somebody to look up to and guideher kind of right.
Speaker 1 (02:03):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (02:04):
Yeah, those transitions can be really tough,
but dogs are very adaptable.
They do, they do tend to findtheir way.
Speaker 1 (02:13):
Yeah, she's learning to like being the only child
pretty quickly.
Speaker 2 (02:17):
Really yeah, she's like.
This is not to show that ourdogs growing up were like that.
As soon as my, my parents hadtwo poodles, and since as soon
as the brother died, like thesister just started thriving,
she was like so happy to be theonly.
Speaker 1 (02:33):
Well, it's almost like Selkie is going what?
There are no rules for me now.
Speaker 2 (02:39):
Does that mean that?
Speaker 1 (02:40):
that guy was responsible for all those rules.
Speaker 2 (02:44):
Exactly, she gets all the, she gets all the extra,
she gets extra spoiled and allthe things right now.
That's really sweet.
Are you in Scotland right now?
Yeah, you are okay.
You live there most of the time, you're back.
Speaker 1 (02:58):
Yeah most of my people are still in
Massachusetts.
So all my, all my relatives,most of my oldest friends, yeah,
I'll be going there actually injust about under a week to do
some okay and book business, oh.
Speaker 2 (03:14):
That's great.
You have Written severalaward-winning books for young
readers.
But we're gonna talk about yournewest book today, which is
appropriate for my podcastbecause it's called walk in the
dog and it centers kind ofaround a middle-grade boys.
He's kind of an introvert, Iwould say correct, and he it
(03:37):
kind of centers around hisjourney in and his growth.
That's pretty much guided byhis, his launch of a dog walking
business unintentionally hislaunch of a dog walking business
, and kind of the charactersthat he meets along the way.
And now he grows and changesand gains confidence and it
really speaks to thehuman-animal bond and, as you
(03:59):
Say in your book, all dogs areguide dogs in the end and I I
love that quote Because it's sotrue.
I mean I started my business mydog when I adopted my own dog
he's 16 now, 15 years ago.
I know we're really lucky,still moving along.
He's a little tired but it'sstill moving in group and but
(04:20):
you know, 15 years ago Istumbled upon my dog and he he
Really changed my life andguided me.
I started a dog walkingbusiness.
I didn't know what I was doing.
I moved LA to be an actress andyou know all the things and he
really guided me in a directionand I Met people.
It was very similar, actually,to the young kid in your story.
(04:40):
I met many people along the wayand it really changed my life
In ways I didn't reallyunderstand it could.
At the time I was just startinga gig and I knew I wanted to
spend every day with my dog, soI really love that quote.
But this is your first thought.
This is one of your.
This is your only book, as faras I know, that really centers
around the human-animal bond.
Speaker 1 (05:00):
Am I correct in that or Um, I, that's fair, I mean it
.
Animals have appeared in mybooks periodically Through the
years, but this is the firsttime I took center stage really
is it something that WasInspired by kind of your own
(05:21):
connection with dogs, or isthere?
Yeah yeah, I can come out therefrom a couple of angles.
Yeah, one is Is Dexter, whojust passed away.
Speaker 2 (05:34):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (05:36):
He was he was.
It's been Nearly unbroken 28year continuum between Chunk,
his predecessor, and DexterChunk.
We got as a kind of atransitional being when we
uprooted the kids from Boston,okay, first to Ireland and then
(05:58):
in Scotland, and she was aspringer spaniel.
She's just like just thesweetest nature to creature and
she was perfect for what she did.
There were a couple, there wereother dogs along the way.
You know psychics, butbasically it's.
It started in July of 96.
Okay, we left Boston to try andgive the kids something to
settle with yeah and she wasperfect.
(06:22):
She was absolutely perfect.
I mean you could reach into hermouth and take out a ham
sandwich and she Let the kids dowhatever they wanted to her.
That mean there, I would lookout the back window and there
they were.
They had her tipped up Over,upside down, yeah, walking
around.
So everything about her wasideal for the job, right.
(06:44):
And then, with impeccable timing, my daughter left to go to
university.
And then my daughter had herfirst child, my first grandchild
, yeah.
And then my son went to go touniversity and it was an empty
nest for the first time.
And after Walker went toUniversity of Aberdeen, one
(07:09):
month later, chunk died.
Oh, we had her from two weeksafter we got here to one month
after he left.
And what happened then was Isurprised myself and everybody
else, but it took about threemonths before I realized.
I said something's missing here.
I didn't even.
(07:30):
I never considered I was goingto get it on the car.
In fact, when I told the kids,they were like what?
Like you have an interior lifeof your own?
Yeah, I think it's both of them, but I missed it.
I missed all the things.
I missed rhythm of the day,getting up periodically and
(07:51):
going out.
I just missed having a warmbody there.
So it took three months and Iwent back to the same rescue
place which we got her at, 10years later.
I love that, but they've closeddown since then.
But I kept, you know, testdriving their dogs, walking them
(08:12):
, and then he popped up one day.
He's come out of the van.
They're rotating them.
They rotate them arounddifferent sites.
Speaker 2 (08:20):
Yeah, and he comes out.
Speaker 1 (08:22):
I was like, where have you been all my life?
And that was next.
And you know what he was thereat the beginning of the empty
nest.
My wife is a teacher, so herdays kind of mimic the rhythm of
the days when the kids werehere.
That would be my work day, butthere was a big hole in the
(08:44):
middle and so I got Dax and hewas just, you know, my companion
.
I mean, he was always rightthere for the next 13 years,
which included this book, by theway, was signed up in 2015.
Speaker 2 (09:02):
Wow.
Speaker 1 (09:02):
And it was a lot of reasons.
It got sidetracked over andover again, having to do with
health issues and car crashesand deaths of editors and all of
this, and it just got waylaid.
And Dax was like the constantthere with me the whole time
through what I consider to be mywilderness years.
Really, professionally, I hadquite a disappearing act.
(09:25):
I was still doing what I do butit didn't look like it.
Speaker 2 (09:29):
Common with many creatives?
Speaker 1 (09:31):
Yes, and then you know, and then the book took the
shape that it took and I pickedthis great photo that everybody
loves for my.
I haven't used an author photoin a long, long time.
But I said this has to happenand I put Dax on the book and
everybody's talking about Daxhere and then he made it again
(09:53):
almost exactly like Chuck, likehe knew what his assignment was,
and he made it to a month, amonth before the book comes out,
and he made it to publicize thebook next week, march 11th, I
think the book comes out correct.
Speaker 2 (10:07):
Yeah, the 12th, he just made it to.
Speaker 1 (10:09):
He made it to whatever.
29th of January.
Speaker 2 (10:14):
He's like you can take it from here, yeah.
Speaker 1 (10:16):
He did, he did.
Oh, that's going to make me cryyeah, cause that's.
Speaker 2 (10:20):
you know I'm similar.
I'm feeling that with my dogtoo.
You know it's like.
Speaker 1 (10:24):
And now this stuff.
Speaker 2 (10:25):
Yeah, I love that both of them.
Both of them came in with a,with a clear, clear vision,
clear goal, like this is my job.
I'm here for you, this is whatwe're doing, and you know
precisely, precisely as if theyknew.
Speaker 1 (10:41):
And now Selkie's listening to the whole thing.
So you know, cut out for her.
And as for the book becomingdog centric, yeah, after the
whole thing with with being inthe wilderness and I had to be
rematched with an editor becausemy editor got sick and retired
and died and I was orphaned forabout a year and then they
(11:03):
finally matched me up withKendra Levin and I think it's
been a God, she's been a Godsaid.
Speaker 2 (11:08):
Great.
Speaker 1 (11:09):
Cheekaboo.
I knew I wanted to write thisbook about this kid who was a
bystander and happy to be so,and just like yeah, but he had
this pilgrim's progress fromsomeone who didn't want to be
involved to someone who getsintegrated into the world.
And she said well, what's yourvehicle?
(11:29):
How are we going to deliverthis?
What is your follow, the magicfootprints of this journey?
And I said well, you know, I'vehad for years I've had this
back burner idea that I wantedto match with something else,
based on my theory that dogwalkers make the world go round.
Speaker 2 (11:48):
I love that.
Speaker 1 (11:50):
Every news story right.
Dog walkers found the dead body.
Dog walkers found the burningvehicle.
Dog walkers found the peopleflashing around in the river
about to die.
Where would we be without dogwalkers stumbling across
everything?
I thought there's a vehiclethat gets this kid out of the
house and interacting withpeople and with canines, all of
(12:13):
which contributes to his journey.
Yeah, Because if my originalplan to have him just be a kid,
it was just like no, no, no,thanks, I don't want to get
involved, I'm just going to stayhere with him.
I'm telling Reed.
Speaker 2 (12:29):
Yeah, yeah, exactly yeah.
He seems like he was verycomfortable.
It didn't know what he wasmissing really by not being out
there in the world and he wascomfortable doing so.
He really could have cared less, but it's those dogs that
really.
Speaker 1 (12:47):
Yeah, he didn't see the problem until he was dragged
outside.
Speaker 2 (12:49):
Yeah, he didn't see the problem.
Yeah, they forced him and theygave him confidence and purpose
and forced him to connect.
Speaker 1 (12:57):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (12:58):
Open those doors.
Yeah, let me ask what's themost important lesson?
You think the main character'sname is Lewis, correct?
Nope, what do you think themost important lesson he learned
throughout that journey?
This one's pretty easy actually, okay, I lifted it almost
(13:21):
directly.
Speaker 1 (13:21):
I altered it slightly .
There's saying from a womanshelter in Boston called Rosie's
Place, okay, which I believewas the first women's shelter in
the United States, wow, and itwas founded in like 1974 by a
heroic woman named Tip Ternan,and to this day they have a
(13:43):
quote of hers posted in thereand it couldn't match my hero's
journey more perfectly.
It is the journey must be madein the company of others.
Speaker 2 (13:57):
Which is the?
Speaker 1 (13:58):
opposite of how he enters the book.
It's sort of a more poetic wayof saying no man is an island.
Speaker 2 (14:04):
Yeah, absolutely.
Speaker 1 (14:06):
And the dogs sort of took him through this journey
and made him see it Right.
But that's what he saw when hegot there.
Speaker 2 (14:17):
That's a fantastic lesson.
I think it takes some of us along time to learn that lesson,
right.
Speaker 1 (14:21):
I'm still learning it yeah.
Speaker 2 (14:23):
I'm still learning too.
Speaker 1 (14:25):
I'm going out to promote the book and I'm like
does this really?
Speaker 2 (14:28):
have to happen.
Well, that stuff is so hard,yeah.
Speaker 1 (14:32):
That stuff is yeah, it just takes a different side
of you as an artist, right.
Speaker 2 (14:37):
So it's.
Speaker 1 (14:38):
Some people are more naturally that way inclined.
I know a lot of them who aregreat at it and once I get into
a rhythm where I'm supposed tobe and it's going well, I'm all
right at it.
But I'm not by nature a publicfacing person.
This is good that I do what Ido for a job.
Speaker 2 (14:56):
Yeah, absolutely.
One question I want to ask you.
I've had very few authors onhere and I myself am not.
I'm not a writer, I cannot sitdown.
I've tried, I've even tried towrite blog posts, it's just I
can't.
It's not my jam, I don't know,and I wish it was, because I'm
(15:19):
surrounded by some prettyamazing people and some amazing
writers my sister's a writer anda book editor and she just
comes so naturally to her.
It's just something I can'tgrasp my head around and I want
to know, as a professionalauthor, what do you find the
most difficult about writing foryou and how do you get through
(15:42):
that?
That's Okay.
Maybe it just varies dependingon what you're working on.
Speaker 1 (15:46):
But it does to a degree.
But I've come to the conclusionthat there are three strata to
the writing of books.
First is conceptualization whatam I going to write about?
What is this?
What is the structure?
The last strata is sentencelevel writing sentences and
paragraphs, which I love.
Speaker 2 (16:08):
Okay.
Speaker 1 (16:09):
I'm fond of saying that writing sentences is fun,
writing books is hard.
Speaker 2 (16:15):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (16:15):
Okay, and then there's the middle strata is how
do you link all that stuff up?
How do you make those sentencesand paragraphs say the thing
you have proposed at thebeginning in your
conceptualization, right, andthat is the hard part.
(16:35):
How do you build all the piecesof the mosaic into it to make a
picture and structure itperfectly?
That has always bedeveled memore than the other stuff.
I've gotten better at the otherstuff.
I will always struggle withthat big middle ground.
(16:57):
And the answer to how it getsdone.
I love editors.
I love editing.
Speaker 2 (17:02):
Okay.
Speaker 1 (17:03):
I like being edited more as I get older, which is
counterintuitive, but I need andwant more as I get older.
Speaker 2 (17:13):
That makes sense to me.
I mean, you're really workingon the creative aspect and
you're really just getting yourvision out there and then they
can do, they can fine tune,right yeah.
There's more satisfaction inthat, maybe for some yeah.
Speaker 1 (17:28):
And I'm not insisting that I have structure.
See, it's sort of like once youknow, it took me forever to
learn to write like an elevatorpitch.
This is what the book is about,right?
Yeah, it took me forever tolearn that.
In the early days it took memore words to describe what my
book was about than there arewords in the book.
(17:50):
I was just lousy at it.
But over the years and again, Ilearned this more or less from
an editor, from that editor whodied, david Gale.
He said basically, you know, welook for three level elevator
pitch.
Pretend you're trapped.
I'm trapped on an elevator withyou and I say, okay, you got my
attention.
Give me a sentence, what's yourbook about?
(18:11):
And if it's a good, compellingsentence, I'll say, all right,
give me a paragraph, okay.
And then you give him aparagraph what it's about.
And if that works and these aretwo different skills, and here
comes the third one he'll say,okay, you hooked me.
Give me a page.
And any writer worth his or hersalt he's got to say, right, if
I got you that far, well,you're going to read a page of
(18:34):
mine.
I have you.
And so what happened when Ifinally got that was.
I learned to write at thebeginning what my book was about
, which I never did before.
I always follow my notes.
I still do, but I know now ithas to be about something.
So with that through line inplace I would always.
(18:56):
My writing still does the samething.
It's a slalom down the hillright With that through line as
the center.
But in the old days the slalomwould go and I'd go way out on
unpeded walks and then come backnow when I've been forced to to
(19:20):
land on what my book is aboutat the beginning.
I still swallow them, but Idon't veer too far off.
Everything I do, all my littleside trips, serve that through
line.
Speaker 2 (19:31):
Okay.
Speaker 1 (19:33):
Because I don't allow myself to go too far away from
it.
Everything's got a feedbackinto it.
I had one, my favoritebackhanded column.
It came from a big guy in thelibrary industry who was telling
one of my former editors and itcame back to me Because Chris
writes so well about stuffnobody cares about.
Oh my God.
(19:54):
And it was first.
I will take any great line,funny line, anywhere I can get
it, and it made me laugh.
But secondly, it focused mymind Like, yeah, I could do what
I do and still be writing aboutsomething, Because I like to
write dialogue, I writecharacters, I write humor.
I can do all that within astructure that says this is what
(20:18):
the book is about.
So since then I've focused alot more on it.
Speaker 2 (20:23):
That's great.
It's funny how someone can sayone thing and it changes your
whole.
You carry that with you, Likepeople can say so many things
and there's just one thing thatsomeone says and you carry that
with you.
Speaker 1 (20:36):
Now that you put it that way, I do see why I'm an
oaf.
Speaker 2 (20:43):
What do you think?
So, if we can circle back tothis particular book for young
readers, what do you think youwould like your young readers to
take away from this book?
What's the one thing that youhope that they take away?
Speaker 1 (20:58):
Basically, I'm going to go back to that saying, but
I'm going to couple it with Imean, just because you think
you're not the problem doesn'tmean you're not the problem.
Not being a participant in lifeis not good enough.
Just because you're not one,you yourself identify as
(21:21):
screwing things up for otherpeople probably not good enough
and, against your nature, youmight have to force yourself out
into life.
Speaker 2 (21:32):
Yeah, I think that's so appropriate, especially for
the times now when people I feelit's like people everyone's
just kind of overwhelmed and alot of people just don't want to
participate.
They're just not interested orit's just too much and they just
want to go back into theirhidey holes.
Speaker 1 (21:49):
There's a lot out there to want to shrink from
right now.
Speaker 2 (21:52):
Yes, there is Absolutely Hi Sunky.
Speaker 1 (21:58):
You're so pretty Sunky girl.
Speaker 2 (22:00):
Sunky.
Look at you.
All right.
Well, thank you, chris.
I appreciate you jumping on.
Speaker 1 (22:04):
Thank you very much for having me.
I enjoyed it, cheers.
That's Selkie.
Speaker 2 (00:02):
Hi, selkie, selkie, Hi, what kind of puppy is she?
Speaker 1 (00:09):
A lurcher Greyhound Saluki mix.
Speaker 2 (00:13):
A lurcher, okay, okay , I was going to say she looks
like a wire hair greyhound to me.
Speaker 1 (00:19):
I've never heard of a lurcher.
Saluki gives her the hair, it'sgorgeous.
Speaker 2 (00:23):
How old is she?
Speaker 1 (00:24):
Three and a half.
Speaker 2 (00:26):
Okay, she's still young.
Is she your only puppy?
Speaker 1 (00:30):
She is as of now.
We just had to put one downabout a month ago.
He's actually.
I don't know if you've seen theactual copy of the book, but
he's in my.
He's in my, my author photoTexting.
Speaker 2 (00:46):
How old was he?
May I ask?
Speaker 1 (00:49):
13 and a half.
Speaker 2 (00:50):
Okay, he had a nice life, a nice long life.
He did.
Yeah, the end was hard though.
Yeah, it's always it's.
It's super tough and I'm sorrythat you're going through that,
and I know it.
It has its moments, you know,but I'm sure he had a wonderful
life with you.
Speaker 1 (01:10):
Yeah, it was great it was.
It was better for me than itwas for him.
Speaker 2 (01:13):
Yeah, how's she faring with the loss?
Speaker 1 (01:19):
She's doing.
Okay, yeah, she's.
She's not unaffected.
The first week she was likehaving accidents in the night,
interesting On the floor, whichshe hadn't done for a while.
Speaker 2 (01:32):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (01:35):
And I would say that she seems a little bit more shy
now because she always had decks.
She's never.
She was never alone, ever.
Yeah, because even when we gother at the rescue place she was
there with her brother.
So and we got it Okay At 11weeks and then we brought her
home from home and then she wasdexterous sidecar.
Speaker 2 (01:57):
Little sister sidekick, so she's always had
somebody to look up to and guideher kind of right.
Speaker 1 (02:03):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (02:04):
Yeah, those transitions can be really tough,
but dogs are very adaptable.
They do, they do tend to findtheir way.
Speaker 1 (02:13):
Yeah, she's learning to like being the only child
pretty quickly.
Speaker 2 (02:17):
Really yeah, she's like.
This is not to show that ourdogs growing up were like that.
As soon as my, my parents hadtwo poodles, and since as soon
as the brother died, like thesister just started thriving,
she was like so happy to be theonly.
Speaker 1 (02:33):
Well, it's almost like Selkie is going what?
There are no rules for me now.
Speaker 2 (02:39):
Does that mean that?
Speaker 1 (02:40):
that guy was responsible for all those rules.
Speaker 2 (02:44):
Exactly, she gets all the, she gets all the extra,
she gets extra spoiled and allthe things right now.
That's really sweet.
Are you in Scotland right now?
Yeah, you are okay.
You live there most of the time, you're back.
Speaker 1 (02:58):
Yeah most of my people are still in
Massachusetts.
So all my, all my relatives,most of my oldest friends, yeah,
I'll be going there actually injust about under a week to do
some okay and book business, oh.
Speaker 2 (03:14):
That's great.
You have Written severalaward-winning books for young
readers.
But we're gonna talk about yournewest book today, which is
appropriate for my podcastbecause it's called walk in the
dog and it centers kind ofaround a middle-grade boys.
He's kind of an introvert, Iwould say correct, and he it
(03:37):
kind of centers around hisjourney in and his growth.
That's pretty much guided byhis, his launch of a dog walking
business unintentionally hislaunch of a dog walking business
, and kind of the charactersthat he meets along the way.
And now he grows and changesand gains confidence and it
really speaks to thehuman-animal bond and, as you
(03:59):
Say in your book, all dogs areguide dogs in the end and I I
love that quote Because it's sotrue.
I mean I started my business mydog when I adopted my own dog
he's 16 now, 15 years ago.
I know we're really lucky,still moving along.
He's a little tired but it'sstill moving in group and but
(04:20):
you know, 15 years ago Istumbled upon my dog and he he
Really changed my life andguided me.
I started a dog walkingbusiness.
I didn't know what I was doing.
I moved LA to be an actress andyou know all the things and he
really guided me in a directionand I Met people.
It was very similar, actually,to the young kid in your story.
(04:40):
I met many people along the wayand it really changed my life
In ways I didn't reallyunderstand it could.
At the time I was just startinga gig and I knew I wanted to
spend every day with my dog, soI really love that quote.
But this is your first thought.
This is one of your.
This is your only book, as faras I know, that really centers
around the human-animal bond.
Speaker 1 (05:00):
Am I correct in that or Um, I, that's fair, I mean it
.
Animals have appeared in mybooks periodically Through the
years, but this is the firsttime I took center stage really
is it something that WasInspired by kind of your own
(05:21):
connection with dogs, or isthere?
Yeah yeah, I can come out therefrom a couple of angles.
Yeah, one is Is Dexter, whojust passed away.
Speaker 2 (05:34):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (05:36):
He was he was.
It's been Nearly unbroken 28year continuum between Chunk,
his predecessor, and DexterChunk.
We got as a kind of atransitional being when we
uprooted the kids from Boston,okay, first to Ireland and then
(05:58):
in Scotland, and she was aspringer spaniel.
She's just like just thesweetest nature to creature and
she was perfect for what she did.
There were a couple, there wereother dogs along the way.
You know psychics, butbasically it's.
It started in July of 96.
Okay, we left Boston to try andgive the kids something to
settle with yeah and she wasperfect.
(06:22):
She was absolutely perfect.
I mean you could reach into hermouth and take out a ham
sandwich and she Let the kids dowhatever they wanted to her.
That mean there, I would lookout the back window and there
they were.
They had her tipped up Over,upside down, yeah, walking
around.
So everything about her wasideal for the job, right.
(06:44):
And then, with impeccable timing, my daughter left to go to
university.
And then my daughter had herfirst child, my first grandchild
, yeah.
And then my son went to go touniversity and it was an empty
nest for the first time.
And after Walker went toUniversity of Aberdeen, one
(07:09):
month later, chunk died.
Oh, we had her from two weeksafter we got here to one month
after he left.
And what happened then was Isurprised myself and everybody
else, but it took about threemonths before I realized.
I said something's missing here.
I didn't even.
(07:30):
I never considered I was goingto get it on the car.
In fact, when I told the kids,they were like what?
Like you have an interior lifeof your own?
Yeah, I think it's both of them, but I missed it.
I missed all the things.
I missed rhythm of the day,getting up periodically and
(07:51):
going out.
I just missed having a warmbody there.
So it took three months and Iwent back to the same rescue
place which we got her at, 10years later.
I love that, but they've closeddown since then.
But I kept, you know, testdriving their dogs, walking them
(08:12):
, and then he popped up one day.
He's come out of the van.
They're rotating them.
They rotate them arounddifferent sites.
Speaker 2 (08:20):
Yeah, and he comes out.
Speaker 1 (08:22):
I was like, where have you been all my life?
And that was next.
And you know what he was thereat the beginning of the empty
nest.
My wife is a teacher, so herdays kind of mimic the rhythm of
the days when the kids werehere.
That would be my work day, butthere was a big hole in the
(08:44):
middle and so I got Dax and hewas just, you know, my companion
.
I mean, he was always rightthere for the next 13 years,
which included this book, by theway, was signed up in 2015.
Speaker 2 (09:02):
Wow.
Speaker 1 (09:02):
And it was a lot of reasons.
It got sidetracked over andover again, having to do with
health issues and car crashesand deaths of editors and all of
this, and it just got waylaid.
And Dax was like the constantthere with me the whole time
through what I consider to be mywilderness years.
Really, professionally, I hadquite a disappearing act.
(09:25):
I was still doing what I do butit didn't look like it.
Speaker 2 (09:29):
Common with many creatives?
Speaker 1 (09:31):
Yes, and then you know, and then the book took the
shape that it took and I pickedthis great photo that everybody
loves for my.
I haven't used an author photoin a long, long time.
But I said this has to happenand I put Dax on the book and
everybody's talking about Daxhere and then he made it again
(09:53):
almost exactly like Chuck, likehe knew what his assignment was,
and he made it to a month, amonth before the book comes out,
and he made it to publicize thebook next week, march 11th, I
think the book comes out correct.
Speaker 2 (10:07):
Yeah, the 12th, he just made it to.
Speaker 1 (10:09):
He made it to whatever.
29th of January.
Speaker 2 (10:14):
He's like you can take it from here, yeah.
Speaker 1 (10:16):
He did, he did.
Oh, that's going to make me cryyeah, cause that's.
Speaker 2 (10:20):
you know I'm similar.
I'm feeling that with my dogtoo.
You know it's like.
Speaker 1 (10:24):
And now this stuff.
Speaker 2 (10:25):
Yeah, I love that both of them.
Both of them came in with a,with a clear, clear vision,
clear goal, like this is my job.
I'm here for you, this is whatwe're doing, and you know
precisely, precisely as if theyknew.
Speaker 1 (10:41):
And now Selkie's listening to the whole thing.
So you know, cut out for her.
And as for the book becomingdog centric, yeah, after the
whole thing with with being inthe wilderness and I had to be
rematched with an editor becausemy editor got sick and retired
and died and I was orphaned forabout a year and then they
(11:03):
finally matched me up withKendra Levin and I think it's
been a God, she's been a Godsaid.
Speaker 2 (11:08):
Great.
Speaker 1 (11:09):
Cheekaboo.
I knew I wanted to write thisbook about this kid who was a
bystander and happy to be so,and just like yeah, but he had
this pilgrim's progress fromsomeone who didn't want to be
involved to someone who getsintegrated into the world.
And she said well, what's yourvehicle?
(11:29):
How are we going to deliverthis?
What is your follow, the magicfootprints of this journey?
And I said well, you know, I'vehad for years I've had this
back burner idea that I wantedto match with something else,
based on my theory that dogwalkers make the world go round.
Speaker 2 (11:48):
I love that.
Speaker 1 (11:50):
Every news story right.
Dog walkers found the dead body.
Dog walkers found the burningvehicle.
Dog walkers found the peopleflashing around in the river
about to die.
Where would we be without dogwalkers stumbling across
everything?
I thought there's a vehiclethat gets this kid out of the
house and interacting withpeople and with canines, all of
(12:13):
which contributes to his journey.
Yeah, Because if my originalplan to have him just be a kid,
it was just like no, no, no,thanks, I don't want to get
involved, I'm just going to stayhere with him.
I'm telling Reed.
Speaker 2 (12:29):
Yeah, yeah, exactly yeah.
He seems like he was verycomfortable.
It didn't know what he wasmissing really by not being out
there in the world and he wascomfortable doing so.
He really could have cared less, but it's those dogs that
really.
Speaker 1 (12:47):
Yeah, he didn't see the problem until he was dragged
outside.
Speaker 2 (12:49):
Yeah, he didn't see the problem.
Yeah, they forced him and theygave him confidence and purpose
and forced him to connect.
Speaker 1 (12:57):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (12:58):
Open those doors.
Yeah, let me ask what's themost important lesson?
You think the main character'sname is Lewis, correct?
Nope, what do you think themost important lesson he learned
throughout that journey?
This one's pretty easy actually, okay, I lifted it almost
(13:21):
directly.
Speaker 1 (13:21):
I altered it slightly .
There's saying from a womanshelter in Boston called Rosie's
Place, okay, which I believewas the first women's shelter in
the United States, wow, and itwas founded in like 1974 by a
heroic woman named Tip Ternan,and to this day they have a
(13:43):
quote of hers posted in thereand it couldn't match my hero's
journey more perfectly.
It is the journey must be madein the company of others.
Speaker 2 (13:57):
Which is the?
Speaker 1 (13:58):
opposite of how he enters the book.
It's sort of a more poetic wayof saying no man is an island.
Speaker 2 (14:04):
Yeah, absolutely.
Speaker 1 (14:06):
And the dogs sort of took him through this journey
and made him see it Right.
But that's what he saw when hegot there.
Speaker 2 (14:17):
That's a fantastic lesson.
I think it takes some of us along time to learn that lesson,
right.
Speaker 1 (14:21):
I'm still learning it yeah.
Speaker 2 (14:23):
I'm still learning too.
Speaker 1 (14:25):
I'm going out to promote the book and I'm like
does this really?
Speaker 2 (14:28):
have to happen.
Well, that stuff is so hard,yeah.
Speaker 1 (14:32):
That stuff is yeah, it just takes a different side
of you as an artist, right.
Speaker 2 (14:37):
So it's.
Speaker 1 (14:38):
Some people are more naturally that way inclined.
I know a lot of them who aregreat at it and once I get into
a rhythm where I'm supposed tobe and it's going well, I'm all
right at it.
But I'm not by nature a publicfacing person.
This is good that I do what Ido for a job.
Speaker 2 (14:56):
Yeah, absolutely.
One question I want to ask you.
I've had very few authors onhere and I myself am not.
I'm not a writer, I cannot sitdown.
I've tried, I've even tried towrite blog posts, it's just I
can't.
It's not my jam, I don't know,and I wish it was, because I'm
(15:19):
surrounded by some prettyamazing people and some amazing
writers my sister's a writer anda book editor and she just
comes so naturally to her.
It's just something I can'tgrasp my head around and I want
to know, as a professionalauthor, what do you find the
most difficult about writing foryou and how do you get through
(15:42):
that?
That's Okay.
Maybe it just varies dependingon what you're working on.
Speaker 1 (15:46):
But it does to a degree.
But I've come to the conclusionthat there are three strata to
the writing of books.
First is conceptualization whatam I going to write about?
What is this?
What is the structure?
The last strata is sentencelevel writing sentences and
paragraphs, which I love.
Speaker 2 (16:08):
Okay.
Speaker 1 (16:09):
I'm fond of saying that writing sentences is fun,
writing books is hard.
Speaker 2 (16:15):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (16:15):
Okay, and then there's the middle strata is how
do you link all that stuff up?
How do you make those sentencesand paragraphs say the thing
you have proposed at thebeginning in your
conceptualization, right, andthat is the hard part.
(16:35):
How do you build all the piecesof the mosaic into it to make a
picture and structure itperfectly?
That has always bedeveled memore than the other stuff.
I've gotten better at the otherstuff.
I will always struggle withthat big middle ground.
(16:57):
And the answer to how it getsdone.
I love editors.
I love editing.
Speaker 2 (17:02):
Okay.
Speaker 1 (17:03):
I like being edited more as I get older, which is
counterintuitive, but I need andwant more as I get older.
Speaker 2 (17:13):
That makes sense to me.
I mean, you're really workingon the creative aspect and
you're really just getting yourvision out there and then they
can do, they can fine tune,right yeah.
There's more satisfaction inthat, maybe for some yeah.
Speaker 1 (17:28):
And I'm not insisting that I have structure.
See, it's sort of like once youknow, it took me forever to
learn to write like an elevatorpitch.
This is what the book is about,right?
Yeah, it took me forever tolearn that.
In the early days it took memore words to describe what my
book was about than there arewords in the book.
(17:50):
I was just lousy at it.
But over the years and again, Ilearned this more or less from
an editor, from that editor whodied, david Gale.
He said basically, you know, welook for three level elevator
pitch.
Pretend you're trapped.
I'm trapped on an elevator withyou and I say, okay, you got my
attention.
Give me a sentence, what's yourbook about?
(18:11):
And if it's a good, compellingsentence, I'll say, all right,
give me a paragraph, okay.
And then you give him aparagraph what it's about.
And if that works and these aretwo different skills, and here
comes the third one he'll say,okay, you hooked me.
Give me a page.
And any writer worth his or hersalt he's got to say, right, if
I got you that far, well,you're going to read a page of
(18:34):
mine.
I have you.
And so what happened when Ifinally got that was.
I learned to write at thebeginning what my book was about
, which I never did before.
I always follow my notes.
I still do, but I know now ithas to be about something.
So with that through line inplace I would always.
(18:56):
My writing still does the samething.
It's a slalom down the hillright With that through line as
the center.
But in the old days the slalomwould go and I'd go way out on
unpeded walks and then come backnow when I've been forced to to
(19:20):
land on what my book is aboutat the beginning.
I still swallow them, but Idon't veer too far off.
Everything I do, all my littleside trips, serve that through
line.
Speaker 2 (19:31):
Okay.
Speaker 1 (19:33):
Because I don't allow myself to go too far away from
it.
Everything's got a feedbackinto it.
I had one, my favoritebackhanded column.
It came from a big guy in thelibrary industry who was telling
one of my former editors and itcame back to me Because Chris
writes so well about stuffnobody cares about.
Oh my God.
(19:54):
And it was first.
I will take any great line,funny line, anywhere I can get
it, and it made me laugh.
But secondly, it focused mymind Like, yeah, I could do what
I do and still be writing aboutsomething, Because I like to
write dialogue, I writecharacters, I write humor.
I can do all that within astructure that says this is what
(20:18):
the book is about.
So since then I've focused alot more on it.
Speaker 2 (20:23):
That's great.
It's funny how someone can sayone thing and it changes your
whole.
You carry that with you, Likepeople can say so many things
and there's just one thing thatsomeone says and you carry that
with you.
Speaker 1 (20:36):
Now that you put it that way, I do see why I'm an
oaf.
Speaker 2 (20:43):
What do you think?
So, if we can circle back tothis particular book for young
readers, what do you think youwould like your young readers to
take away from this book?
What's the one thing that youhope that they take away?
Speaker 1 (20:58):
Basically, I'm going to go back to that saying, but
I'm going to couple it with Imean, just because you think
you're not the problem doesn'tmean you're not the problem.
Not being a participant in lifeis not good enough.
Just because you're not one,you yourself identify as
(21:21):
screwing things up for otherpeople probably not good enough
and, against your nature, youmight have to force yourself out
into life.
Speaker 2 (21:32):
Yeah, I think that's so appropriate, especially for
the times now when people I feelit's like people everyone's
just kind of overwhelmed and alot of people just don't want to
participate.
They're just not interested orit's just too much and they just
want to go back into theirhidey holes.
Speaker 1 (21:49):
There's a lot out there to want to shrink from
right now.
Speaker 2 (21:52):
Yes, there is Absolutely Hi Sunky.
Speaker 1 (21:58):
You're so pretty Sunky girl.
Speaker 2 (22:00):
Sunky.
Look at you.
All right.
Well, thank you, chris.
I appreciate you jumping on.
Speaker 1 (22:04):
Thank you very much for having me.
I enjoyed it, cheers.
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