January 17, 2023 • 57 mins
Jumping into the first episode of 2023 with probably the hardest topic when it comes to pet ownership, and that is hospice care and euthanasia . While I am not certain anything can fully prepare us for the emotional side of pet loss, I think understanding the practical side and the technical side of end of life can hopefully help make it a little less scary. In this episode I chat with Dr. Nick Labriola, DVM of Lap of Love Veterinary Hospice. Lap of Love is a network of veterinarians around the country with the goal of empowering every owner to care for their geriatric pets. Dr. Nick, who specializes in end of life care and euthanasia, chats about what to expect from hospice care, what to expect from euthanasia, what to look for in our pups, and how to know when it’s time to make those difficult decisions.
Helpful Links:
https://www.lapoflove.com/
https://www.instagram.com/lapofloveveterinaryhospice/
Follow Dr. Nick;
https://www.instagram.com/realdr.nick/
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*This podcast is for informational purposes only, even if, and regardless of whether it features the advice of veterinarians or professional dog trainers. It is not, nor is it intended to be a substitute for professional veterinary care or personalized canine behavior advice and should not be used as so. The views expressed in this podcast are solely those of the podcast author or the individual views of those participating in the podcast.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:41):
Hi you guys, thank you so muchfor joining me for this episode
of The Baroo podcast. This isthe first episode of 2023. I'm
kind of jumping into this newseason with probably the hardest
topic when it comes to petguardianship. And that is end of
life care. I have yet to have toexperience end of life care with
(01:01):
my own pup. But as he ages, he'sgoing to be 15 soon. And he's
doing really, really well. I'mjust going to put that out
there. But I thought it would behelpful for me to learn more
about the process of hospicecare, and more about euthanasia.
I'm not certain anything canreally fully prepare me for the
emotional side of losing him.
But I think understanding thepractical side of end of life
(01:24):
and the technical side canhopefully help make it just a
little less scary. So in thisepisode, today, I chat with Dr.
Nick Labriola. of Lap of Loveveterinary hospice. Dr. Nick
specializes in end of life care,and we chat about what to expect
from hospice care, what toexpect from euthanasia, and what
(01:44):
to look for in our pups and howto know when it's time to make
some of those really difficultdecisions. So a warning that the
subject matter is a heavy one.
But Dr. Nick is fabulous. And heanswers my questions while
keeping the tone light. So let'sjust jump into the chat. What
(02:08):
kind of a puppy is he? He'sinto? Wawa? Your puppy?
Dr. Nick Labriola (02:13):
No, no, he's like seven.
Charlotte Bayne (02:14):
Where? How'd you how'd you come about him?
You said Yeah, yeah.
Dr. Nick Labriola (02:17):
So he was one of them. He was one of the
surgery dogs in vet school. Oneof the one of the local rescues,
like they brought a lot of dogsover every week for us to like
spay and neuter. And of course,like we had board certified
surgeons like watching us makingsure we were doing a right and
everything. And yeah, he was oneof them. And I was like, what,
this is a good Chihuahua. I waslike, this is like, one of those
(02:39):
rare, perfect it was like it waskind of a joke. At first. I was
like, Guys, I'm gonna take thatChihuahua. And everyone was
like, Yeah, whatever. And then Iactually did.
Charlotte Bayne (02:52):
is that your first dog?
Dr. Nick Labriola (02:57):
I grew up with a dog that lived for like
17 years. He like actually justrecently passed. But this is
like the first dog that was likemine. Yeah.
Charlotte Bayne (03:08):
Yeah. So you took him home? And how old was
he when you took him home?
Dr. Nick Labriola (03:11):
I don't know.
He was very young. He had allhis adult teeth, which was
mature and grow up like veryearly. So they look like adults.
By the time they're like six,seven months old. So you could
have been like six months old.
You could have been like a yearold. You could have been two
years old.
Charlotte Bayne (03:27):
Do you have any other animals? Yes.
Dr. Nick Labriola (03:28):
So many.
Yeah. So I have two cats thatare also rescues that happened.
One was like right before thatschool and the other was during
that school. I have sugargliders. I have African pygmy
door mice these snakes I havefish. I have a jumping spider.
And most of them are in likeenclosures in cages and stuff.
(03:48):
But yeah, and that's for me,that's not that much. Like
there's been times where I'vehad like, a ton of animals. Like
I've had a lot of differentreptiles and amphibians all at
once. I've had like tarantulasand scorpions, like many all at
once. Oh, yeah. So I kind oflike I kind of have like a
(04:09):
little bit of every kind ofanimal I don't really do birds.
Eye birds and I appreciatebirds, but I don't see it for
myself. You know what I mean? Iwould see myself having a bird.
But
Charlotte Bayne (04:22):
yeah, right.
Because it's just too it's toomuch. There she's I don't have
the right space. All the above?
Yeah, I feel like they need tofly. And I feel like yeah,
that's tough to have.
Does that just mean like anenclosed enclosure so they can
Dr. Nick Labriola (04:37):
That would be ideal. And yeah, that would
definitely be ideal. And I wishmore people with like yards
like even if it's just like asmall backyard but set up like a
flight cage or something.
fly around in the yard like anetted tarp or something like
that.
Exactly. Yeah, exactly. Like yousee, like zoos and everything
(04:59):
where it's just like a bigliike, structure so they can.
Yeah. I would love to see peopledoing more that
Charlotte Bayne (05:06):
You have. I definitely have a full house.
Dr. Nick Labriola (05:09):
like, yeah, it's kind of always changing.
Like I'm always open to takinganimals and everything. There's
been there was a time I was likethis close to having an
armadillo. Oh my gosh. Thatmight still happen one of these
days.
Charlotte Bayne (05:23):
Where do you where do you find the animals?
Do you? Do you rescue them all?
Or do you just have you justcome about them? Or how does
that work?
Dr. Nick Labriola (05:30):
Yeah, so it's time to just stumbling upon
them. So I before I was event, Iworked in an Exotic Animal
Hospital and it was only exoticpets. So I met like a ton of
people that work with exoticanimals and like geological
species through that job. Andthen even just in college, so I
studied zoology in college.
Okay. So that was like my, myundergraduate it was a Waluigi.
(05:52):
So that's what I chose. And Imet a ton of people in there
that wanted to be zookeepers,and I even kind of wanted to do
that for a little bit. So I knowlike a ton of zookeepers, it's
on people that work in likerescue crews, all that stuff. So
I'm always like, hearing frompeople like, Hey, my friend had
this you has a bunch of beeslike you want one. And so like,
Charlotte Bayne (06:18):
so you've always been interested in
animals. Did you know that youwanted to work with animals your
whole life? Or is that a new?
Okay? Yes. As an adult?
Dr. Nick Labriola (06:26):
Yeah, yeah, definitely. My whole life. I
definitely knew I loved animalsand wanted to work with animals
and like be around animals. ButI did not always know I wanted
to be a vet. Deciding reallydeciding to be a veterinarian
was later in life that was likein my adult life. It was always
on my mind, of course, becausewhen you're a kid, and you like
(06:47):
animals, everyone's like, Oh,you're gonna be a vet. When you
grow up, you have to be a bit,you know? But yeah, I was not
really too interested in it fora while, because I was like, No,
that's a lot of school. I hateschool. I don't want to go to
med school. Like, why would I dothat? But yeah, when I got that
job at that Exotic AnimalHospital, that was like the
beginning of college, and I lovethis so much. And I was like,
(07:09):
This is what I have to do. Like,this is clearly the path for me
right now. So
Charlotte Bayne (07:14):
working with animals being a veterinarian.
Yeah. So what led you to lap oflove, which is the company that
you work with right now, whichis Lap of Love, specializes in
end of life care, which is whatwe're going to talk about today,
hospice care and euthanasia,which is a really tough subject.
Obviously, it's incrediblyimportant, which is why I wanted
(07:37):
to have you on because I thinkit is, the tough part of being a
pet parent is at some point, youare most likely going to have to
deal with end of life hospicecare and euthanasia, if you're
not lucky enough to have yourpet passed peacefully on their
own, which is rare, I think. Butlack of love is an amazing
(08:02):
company. And I know it'snationwide. And from what you
told me earlier, you started outworking with them just like in
the office. Right? And then youfound your passion that way. Do
you want to expand on that?
Yeah, I definitely
Dr. Nick Labriola (08:15):
Yeah, I definitely did not know I wanted
to focus on hospice. I wasn'teven super aware of veterinary
hospice during vet school. LikeI knew there were veterinarians
that's in home euthanasia, andeverything, but I was not aware
of like the full scope ofveterinary hospitals by any
means. So I started off aftervet school, I started in Miami,
(08:35):
Florida, again, working withexotic animals, because there's
so many exotic animals in Miami,like that is the place if you
want to work with exoticanimals, you need to go to South
Florida or Texas, Texas andSouth Florida. Those are the
exotic animals.
Charlotte Bayne (08:49):
Do you do you have to do you have to study
exotic animals in that school,or I feel like a lot of the vets
I've talked to studied, likeexotic animals.
Dr. Nick Labriola (09:01):
This is gonna be kind of controversial, but
I'll just go ahead and say
Charlotte Bayne (09:04):
we like that.
Dr. Nick Labriola (09:08):
Basically, in vet school, it's man, I'm so
sorry. I really don't know, likea nice way to put this but they
try to appease the the studentsthat are into exotics and stuff
like that by having like littlelike mini lectures, you know,
they'll be like, Oh, this is ourexotic, right, right. Right. And
it's like one short lecture inthe morning, like once a week
(09:29):
that nobody goes through. Youknow what I mean? So, yes, it's
part of the curriculum, but it'snot it's any it's not anywhere
near like the level of dogs andcats. So I got to Miami. And
basically, Miami is superexpensive. Of course. I needed
more than one job like Icouldn't. You do not get paid a
(09:50):
lot right out of med school.
Veterinarians just in generaldon't make that much money. So
as like a new grad and a newjob, like learning working under
vets. I was not making that muchmoney at all. And that's a whole
other conversation, right? Yeah.
The compensation in veterinarymedicine is like a whole other
story,
Charlotte Bayne (10:08):
compared to like, the school loans and all
of the things. Yeah,
Dr. Nick Labriola (10:11):
exactly. And then, exactly in comparison,
like human doctors, like we'dmake, like pennies compared to
human doctors, and we do all thesame things and sometimes more.
Right. And that's, that's notyou know, that's not a shot at
human doctors at all. That'sjust a fact. Yeah,
Charlotte Bayne (10:26):
no, it's, uh, yeah, we touched on that. When I
had Not One More Vet on wetalked about some of the some of
the stressors having to dealwith veterinarians. Yeah.
Unknown (10:37):
Yeah, so I needed I definitely needed more than one
job. So I was, um, I found lapof love. And I was working for a
lap of lof part time, justanswering the phones. And it was
it was a work from home job. AndI was just like, logging into
the lap of love system. And itwas everything from like
(10:57):
scheduling appointments forpeople with like the doctors
working on the field to like,doing little mini quick consults
for people answering medicalquestions, like, you know,
somebody answered the phone. Andthey didn't have much of a
medical background. And theclient was asking a lot of
questions about like thecondition of the pet and
everything. They could say, Hey,I'm not really sure. But I can
(11:18):
transfer you to Dr. Nic, andhe'd be happy to talk to you.
And it was great. It wasamazing. I would literally do it
at the end of the night, like Iwould be working a full day at
the clinic. And I would go homeand immediately started doing
that for like four or fivehours, which sounds insane. And
looking back, I can't believe Idid it. And working for lap of
(11:40):
love, it did not feel like I wasgoing home and working more like
I was very happy to do it. And Iwas really looking forward to
it. And it was so fulfilling.
And it felt so good to be ableto help people in that way. So I
became very passionate aboutveterinary hospice. And it
started to be something that Ireally felt like was my calling,
you know what I mean? It's, Ifeel like a lot of people that
(12:02):
get into hospice have that weirdkind of indescribable feeling,
where it just feels likesomething they need to be doing.
It just feels like what youshould be doing what you're
supposed to be doing. Andthere's really not too much else
I can say because it's just afeeling that you get. And you
just have to listen to those gutfeelings. Absolutely. You know,
you've got to listen to stufflike that. So basically, again,
(12:24):
to make a very long story alittle shorter. I was working at
the clinic, and I saw someone dosomething very, very bad. Yeah,
related to related to euthanasiaand everything. You know, it was
it was really dark, really bad.
(12:48):
Like, I couldn't believe it washappening. I didn't say sorry.
Yeah, you know, it's okay. Itwas very hard to see. And to
this day, I can't believe I evensaw it. But at the same time
that put me on the track tohospitals, because when when I
saw that happening, I was justso like, shocked and appalled
and just like aghast and indisbelief. And I was like, this
(13:09):
will never happen again. WhenI'm around.
Charlotte Bayne (13:11):
What is it something that commonly happens?
Or okay. Someone just didsomething completely awful.
Dr. Nick Labriola (13:21):
Yeah, like, so ridiculous. I've never seen
anything like it before orafter. Yeah, I've never seen
anything like it. It's the worstthing within veterinary medicine
I've ever seen.
Charlotte Bayne (13:33):
I'm not gonna ask what it was. But I'm so
sorry that you had to deal withit. Yeah.
Dr. Nick Labriola (13:38):
Yeah. No, thank you. I appreciate that.
And, you know, again, it's like,I'm grateful for the experience
in the sense of the path thatI'm on. Yeah. Yeah, and I hate
that that animal like had tosuffer for that to happen. By
now like it with that fire needsto make sure no animal that I'm
(14:01):
sitting Derome ever suffersagain. You know, not that that
was my patient. Right.
Charlotte Bayne (14:06):
Right. But you know that you are that you are
giving the best end of life carethat you can possibly get in
that. Exactly. Feeling. Yeah.
Dr. Nick Labriola (14:16):
Yeah. And then like, literally the next
week, I went to that clinic. AndI was like, I'm so done. Yeah.
And I quit. And then I went tothe lap of love. And I was like,
Hey, guys, like hospice isclearly my passion. This is what
I want to do. Like, I want tolike be a doctor for you guys
full time not just answering thephones part time. And they were
like, yes. You know, they wereimmediately like, yeah, we would
(14:37):
love to have you. Yeah, sothat's kind of how it happens.
Charlotte Bayne (14:41):
You're lucky that you, you were able to find
something that speaks to you sodeeply, you know, and that you
know that you're doing the thingthat you're supposed to be doing
right. I think a lot of peoplestrive to find that. Yeah,
Unknown (14:54):
exactly. And it's definitely Yeah, and it's it's
weird because I've been very,very lucky. And almost I would
almost say privileged toexperience that like, throughout
life, for some reason, like,when I was in high school and
like middle school when I wasyounger, it was music like I was
a band kid, I was in marchingband and all that
Charlotte Bayne (15:15):
What did you?
Did you play drums or?
Dr. Nick Labriola (15:19):
Yeah, so I played I played trumpet in
marching band, all throughouthigh school in college,
actually. And then I playedFrench horn. Yeah, and I played
French horn band class. Mostpeople just call it horn. Nobody
really says french horn anymore.
But yeah, I played that class.
And like, that was my thing.
Back then, you know, music waslike my calling and my passion.
And then when I got to college,it was like, you know, exotic
(15:41):
animals and, you know, workingwith all these crazy species and
keeping exotic pets and allthat. And then then it became
hospice was my calling. And nowthere's a lot of other things in
life that I feel like are mynext calling. And it's like,
I've always kind of had thatwhere I just feel so drawn to
certain things. And it's soclear that I should be involved
(16:02):
in these certain things. Andright people ask, they're like,
how do you know like, how wereyou? So sure? How do you like
find your passion? And I'm like,I don't know. Like, it's just
Charlotte Bayne (16:12):
sounds like you've been pretty lucky. Yeah.
Unknown (16:14):
Yeah. And I'm very grateful for that aspects of my
life. You know, that'sdefinitely one of the better
aspects of the life that I'velived so far is that I've always
had very like obvious callingsthroughout many stages of life.
So
Charlotte Bayne (16:26):
right. Do you still play trumpet? No,
Dr. Nick Labriola (16:30):
not really.
Not really, I really want to getback in back into it, like
really bad. But it's been awhile. Like, I can still read
music, and I still like rememberhow to play and everything. But
I mean, it would take me a whileand so I'd be actually good at
it.
Charlotte Bayne (16:46):
You said there are some other things that
you're passionate about. Now? Doyou want to share that? Or? I
have to
Dr. Nick Labriola (16:50):
Yeah, definitely. Yeah. So I've always
been into like tattoos andpiercings. Okay. In the past,
like, year or two, I've startedlike really taking, like the
body art industry reallyseriously. And, you know, really
learning about it. And likehanging out at shops and stuff
and getting like high qualityjewelry and like way more
piercings, and way more tattoos?
Yeah. Yeah. So it's like, I'mhoping that that can be my next
(17:15):
like, my next thing, Idefinitely I'm not gonna leave
veterinary medicine or anything,I would never do that. But, you
know, I'm at a point now wheremy career as a bad has calmed
down enough to where I'm stableenough in my career as a bit
where I can explore other thingsnow, without, without my
practice suffering, you know,literally,
Charlotte Bayne (17:36):
and also that those things have a lot of
creative expression in them. Ithink we all want to be getting
at make money doing some somesort of creative outlet as well.
So Right,
Dr. Nick Labriola (17:47):
exactly.
Everyone should have a creativeoutlet. And that's so important.
Charlotte Bayne (17:50):
Yeah. Well, let's jump into some of the
harder stuff. Thank you forsharing this. Can we talk a
little bit aboutLap of Love, first of all, and
what the what it is that theyactually do? I know, they're a
really wonderful organizationthat I've been referred to, that
I've referred some clients to,and that I, I have researched
(18:12):
myself, my just kind of toprepare for those moments, where
my guy is a very healthy, almost15, but I feel I feel myself
getting. And I know he's gonnabe fifteen next month, February
21. Technically, that's hisadoption day, but, but I do find
myself wanting to be preparedmore, which is part of why I
(18:35):
wanted to have you on to talkabout that, because I think it's
just so important for us to tryto get as much information as we
can, you know, in order toprepare ourselves, practically
and mentally and spiritually andall of the things I think, the
more we know, the more we can beprepared, even though that is
not going to happen anytimesoon. For us. We have a good
(18:55):
Yeah, four more years. I'munderstand more years.
Dr. Nick Labriola (19:01):
I've seen it.
I've seen it. I know. I've seendogs go way past 15.
Charlotte Bayne (19:07):
Oh, yeah. I mean, he's not I mean, he's not
slowing down. I mean, he I mean,he is technically slowing down
physically and mentally, butother than that he's trucking
along. So that's good. don'teven want to jinx it by talking
about it. So anyway, let's jumpinto talking a little bit about
lack of love and what exactlythat is and that they offer.
Dr. Nick Labriola (19:29):
Yeah, definitely. Yeah, I think you
made a great point, saying that,you know, it's important that we
talk about it so we can be moreprepared. Because, you know, I
think just talking about thesethings in in a very normalized
setting like this really helpsdestigmatize it and it makes it
less scary and less daunting andless shocking. Yeah, right. I
Charlotte Bayne (19:52):
mean, I have a ton of anxiety even talking
about it right now. It's makingme a little a little anxious and
Unknown (19:58):
that's normal. That's Same that's very normal. Yeah,
yeah, that's and that's totallyokay. And that's, you know, I
think that's where we come inwith lack of love. Like we're
the ones that can talk about itwithout being anxious. Yeah.
And, you know, we want to helpyou guys get there. Right? And
maybe not even there, but atleast a little less anxious.
Right. You know? Yeah. Sobasically lap of love as a
(20:24):
service. So we are a nationwidecompany. So wherever you're
listening, we're probably inyour area. We're in almost every
major city in the US. There'sjust a handful of states where
we don't have any doctors. We'renot in Alaska or Hawaii yet, but
hopefully that will come in thefuture. Yeah, and we're a
(20:45):
strictly mobile hospice service.
We don't have an office, there'sno clinic, there's no building,
there's no office, there'snothing. It's all mobile, we do
everything in your home. Andit's very, for lack of a better
term. It's very, very low key.
You know, we don't bring toomuch with us. We just we have
Dr. Bags, filled with all kindsof things. And that's it,
Charlotte Bayne (21:07):
it would seem like from a veterinary
perspective, it would might besomething that's kind of like,
you know, you're you're helpingpeople and pets, and it's, it's
almost like it's a much morepeaceful.
Dr. Nick Labriola (21:23):
Yes, yes, yes, definitely.
Charlotte Bayne (21:26):
I mean, I know that sounds sounds horrible. No,
I
Dr. Nick Labriola (21:28):
know exactly what you kind of that is how
most of us feel without it, forsure.
Charlotte Bayne (21:34):
Yeah. And you have to have a ton of compassion
to do that, I think and to be aspecial kind of doctor, right?
Dr. Nick Labriola (21:43):
Yeah, I had no idea that I was compassionate
in that way. And that I was sopatient and kind and all that.
It's just, it's something thatbecame clear when I got into
hospice. And that's kind of howit happens. For a lot of us, we
just feel that the draw to getinto hospice, and then we
realize like, oh, wow, I amsomeone that that can do this.
Like, I'm someone that can guidefamilies through this time. And
(22:06):
I can be there for these people.
And, you know, it's you learn alot about yourself, learning
about not just how I react tothat, but also seeing it from
the perspective of from anoutside perspective, rather than
being the one that's directlyexperienced, experiencing it,
like, seeing it through adifferent lens and seeing how,
although this family is likeheartbroken, they're also
(22:30):
relieved, like, I can see reliefthrough those emotions, because
they see their baby is finallyokay. And finally.
Charlotte Bayne (22:38):
And they are not in pain anymore.
Dr. Nick Labriola (22:42):
Exactly. And seeing that really helped. Kind
of just normalize death, anddestigmatize death for me, and
just, it made me be able to seeit as something natural than
something that's okay. Atsomething that everything is
supposed to do.
Charlotte Bayne (23:01):
Yeah. And it's just so scary for a lot of for a
lot of us, you know, becauseit's the unknown. It definitely
is. And we and we mourn thosethat aren't here. And we miss
them. But definitely, um, solet's circle back to you. What
exactly. Lap of love. Yeah, it'slike how they show up for you as
it pet parent.
Unknown (23:22):
Yeah. So in addition to what I was saying earlier,
there's there's three types ofappointments. One appointment is
a tele advice appointment, whereyou can just get on the phone
with a doctor, you can get onSkype or whatever, or FaceTime,
whatever with a doctor and justtalk about what's going on kind
of figure out whether or notit's the right time when the
(23:45):
right time might be. Now we'renot to the level of human
telehealth, where you know,human doctors can actually
prescribe your medicationsthrough telehealth and
everything. We can't really doall that yet. So we're hoping
veterinary medicine is very new.
But that is an option. And thenwe have hospice appointments.
Were kind of similar, we discusswhat's going on, see what's
(24:07):
going on, assess the situation.
And we figure out how to makeyour pet more comfortable. And
that can be anything from like anew medication protocol to just
adjusting the current medicationprotocol to non medical things
such as like putting yoga matsdown on the tile floor and so
(24:30):
it's easier for him to walk or,you know, putting water bowls in
every room so he doesn't have totravel too far to get water. You
know, it's just simple thingslike that.
Charlotte Bayne (24:41):
It's amazing how much those simple things I
have a golden retriever that Icare for who is chance's his
best friends and he's had likenine lives. I mean, we're pretty
sure he ate like yeah He's inwhen he was five and he was
hospitalized for three weeks. Hewas hospitalized.
Unknown (25:04):
Thats old for a golden retriever.
Charlotte Bayne (25:05):
Totally. We don't know what he got into, but
they were like probably ratpoison. And then he had a bout
of possible cancer. I'm notquite can't quite remember, but
it was just that was just a fewyears ago, anyhow. And he had
like a back thing. And once weput all that, I mean, he gets
acupuncture and he gets a lot ofrehabilitative, you know,
(25:27):
treatments and great stuff. Butputting those mat those rugs
down on his area, like in thekitchen, where he just kind of
stays. We covered the kitchenwith rugs. I mean, he's like a
different dog.
Dr. Nick Labriola (25:42):
See, it's not crazy. People don't realize how
hard tile and hardwood flooringis for dogs to walk on. And for
some they're
Charlotte Bayne (25:56):
I think he was like putting his back out every
time he tried to get up off thewood. Yeah, you know, I think he
was straining it. And I think inputting those down, like he gets
out. I mean, it's stillstruggles to get up, but he's
got grip. And once he's up, he'sraring to go, you know? And
yeah,
Dr. Nick Labriola (26:11):
that's awesome.
Charlotte Bayne (26:12):
It's really great. Yeah.
Dr. Nick Labriola (26:13):
Yeah, no, that's great. And that's exactly
what a hospice appointment is.
It's like just figuring out whatwe can do to get them to that
point. So we don't have toeuthanize today, you know, we
can euthanize like a couplemonths later.
Charlotte Bayne (26:27):
When are we supposed to reach out to you?
Like, is that something that wediscuss with our regular
veterinarian? Or how do we knowwhen the right time is?
Unknown (26:38):
Yeah, yeah, that's a great question. Yeah, so then,
the other appointment we have isa euthanasia appointment, which
is self explanatory. Um, youknow, that's when we come in and
perform the euthanasia. And sowhen, when it's time when you
call. So first of all, you cancall us whenever you want, like,
you know, you can call us. Yeah,yeah, you're always welcome to
(27:01):
call and just some people callall the time and just ask a
bunch of questions. You know,you do not have to be scheduling
an appointment when you call.
That's totally, you know, that'stotally okay. Yeah. Yeah. So
usually, I would say that the,the, the typical kind of like
pipeline of how people would getan appointment with us, is,
their dogs getting older, theybring it to their general
practice bed, which is just, youknow, the vet, you go to all the
(27:23):
time for the vaccines andwhatever, whatever. You know,
they they bring their dog in,and they say, Hey, he's getting
old. What do we do? And then thevet without even realizing it,
the general practice vetusually does a little hospital
visit. Which is funny because alot of vets are doing hospice
and not even realize it. That's,that's something we talked about
(27:44):
a lot. Is there? Yeah, usuallythat happens. And then usually
during that conversation, orshortly after that appointment,
they say, Hey, you're gonna wantto start thinking about the
transition. We can do here. Butthere's also other options, you
know, and then that's whenthey'll mention lap of love or
another company that does it. Orsometimes they do it. There are
(28:05):
general practice vets that will,you know, schedule specific
appointments to go to your home.
Not really as much anymore.
That's, yeah, that's gettingkind of kind of like old school.
Not not a lot of vets that dogeneral practice do that
anymore. But there are some
Charlotte Bayne (28:25):
why? Why do you think that's getting old school?
Just technicalities? Or justbecause there's too You're too
busy doing other things? Yeah.
Unknown (28:31):
Yeah. Both? Both? Yeah.
Yeah. So then that's when peoplefind lap of love and call and
schedule, either schedule theappointment or just ask
questions. But yeah, some peoplejust honestly, sometimes. It's
just very, very clear. Like, theanimal is very obviously, in
very obviously needs totransition. And people just find
(28:54):
us on Google and just call andschedule right then and there.
You know, so there's a lot ofdifferent ways that can happen.
Charlotte Bayne (29:02):
What if someone called you and they think their
their dog needs to beeuthanized? And you get there
and you're like, No, they're notthese aren't, these are the
signs of the dog needing to beeuthanized. Okay, so does that
happen or no? Yes,
Dr. Nick Labriola (29:17):
it does.
That's a really good question.
Because I can totally build offthat to kind of go over some
signs because that's superimportant. Yeah, so that That
definitely happens. And yeah, wejust tell people like, hey,
look, he's actually doing okay,we don't have to do this right
now. We and usually, we,oftentimes we can, depending on
(29:39):
the diagnosis that the dog has,if the dog has had a diagnosis
or a cat or whatever animaloftentimes it is technically
humane to proceed. There's quitea few diagnosis where pretty
much as soon as they have thediagnosis, it's okay to proceed
at any point. Um,
Charlotte Bayne (30:01):
what some of those be?
Unknown (30:02):
Yeah, definitely.So, just off the top like lymphoma
and angiosarcoma, gi lymphoma,any kind of lymphoma, what's the
A, any kind of like internalbleeding, any kind of like fluid
buildup in the lungs or in theabdomen? Anything like that,
like you're okay to go ahead andit doesn't have to be right then
(30:22):
in there. But it's probablygonna be soon. So. So yeah, you
know, it just depends. And yeah,sometimes they just they just
got diagnosed with let's say,let's say lymphoma that just got
the lymphoma diagnosis, but whatthey're doing fine. And we just
tell them, hey, you can we canuse these meds for a while. And
(30:43):
he'll probably be right for alittle while. And we don't have
to do it today. And usuallypeople are cool with that.
They're like, okay, yeah, well,we'll do that. Right. But then,
you know, sometimes people arejust on the on the page of No, I
don't want to even go throughthis. I can't deal with that. I
can't do this. And that's fine.
That is totally okay.
Charlotte Bayne (31:04):
When, when do you? What are some of the signs
that it is time?
Dr. Nick Labriola (31:12):
Yes. So signs that it's time, the most helpful
thing I can say is that what'sactually better to look at is
knowing things that are notsigns. Okay? So, people, there's
two things that people likecling to. And there are two
(31:34):
things that are not good signsof how your pet is doing. So one
is eating. Yeah. And then theother is tail wagging, or like
purring for a cat. And all thetime we hear it all the time,
people will say oh, but she'sstill eating. And what's very
(31:56):
important to realize is, dogs,especially a lot of animals,
especially dogs will eat nomatter you're
Charlotte Bayne (32:03):
gonna keep on going till that very last.
That's the thing.
Unknown (32:07):
And we have to remind people a lot, wait, that's not a
good measure of where your petis at, like in, in the
progression of their disease.
I've seen dogs in scary badcondition like barely anything
with us that that still like aresomehow gobbling up if you put
it in front of their mouth. Soyeah, that that. On the other
(32:27):
hand, if they stop eating,that's your ears. You know, if
it's, you know, your lab, goldenretriever that needs everything,
and suddenly he's not eating,that's definitely a sign that
something's going on. Butcontinuing to eat is not a good
measure of where they're at. Andso try to not even like think
about that with tail wagging andpurring and things like that,
(32:48):
you know, people will say, Oh, Imean, he still wags his tail
when I come home. So it's fine,right? And I'm like, Yeah, I
mean, he's happy to see you butyour dog and sometimes our cats
to like they're gonna be happyto see you no matter what. Yeah,
it's the end again, especiallyyour labs. You're golden
retrievers. You know, you'rehappy dogs. Yeah, you know, no
(33:10):
matter how they feel when theysee you, they're gonna feel
amazing. They're gonna be
Charlotte Bayne (33:18):
they love you.
You have a whole whole dog intoconsideration. Exactly.
Unknown (33:22):
And on that same note, dogs wag their tails and cats
purr for so many differentreasons. It does not necessarily
mean they're happy, like, Ihope, right? I don't know if
you've seen a dog fight. I hopeyou never have to, if you
haven't, Yeah, I'm sure yeah, inyour line of work. You know,
those dog tails are wagging likecrazy the whole time?
Charlotte Bayne (33:45):
Yeah, they wag their tails for arousal. They
wag their tails to sometimes mydog has sciatica. My dog had
thug, hiccups, sciatica, and histail has just started. He does
like a really rapid wag and thenthat lands to the left. And I
showed my veterinarian a videoand she's like, Yeah, that's
probably where his sciatica ishaving an issue. And so for
(34:07):
whatever reason, his tail iswagging. And in response to
that, because it's like not it'sa stiff, not normal tech. Yeah,
happiness is a wavy relax. Yes.
Slowly. Yes, that's right, forthe most part, and any other
tail is telling you eitherthey're very excited. They're
upset or anxious.
Dr. Nick Labriola (34:27):
Yeah.
Charlotte Bayne (34:28):
Yes, yeah. So anyway, so those are not good,
good signs of where your dog isat. As far as if they're ready
to transition or exactly. So.
What so what are some prettyobvious,
Unknown (34:44):
pretty obvious signs?
All I need to hear as the vet, Idon't care what your dog's
diagnosis is. I mean, I do carebut you know, I'm not I'm not
worried about the name of yourdog's disease. If you're telling
me that He's not happy, or she'snot herself. Anything to that
effect. That's all I need tohear. And, you know, I think we
(35:05):
get so caught up in the diseaseprocess. And oh, the vet said,
the vet said, Yes, six monthslater that said, you know, at
this point, we'll have to dothis, and we'll up his meds at
this point and did that. Andit's like, yeah, that's
important to be aware of,that's, of course, very, like
vital information to have. Butno matter where no matter what
(35:27):
dose of medication, they're on,no matter how long they've had
the disease, if your animal isnot happy, then it's time.
Right? Like, that's, that's whatI need to I need to know whether
or not your animal was enjoyingtheir life, and enjoying the
things they usually enjoy doing,are they able to do the things
they enjoy? You know, thingslike that. And, you know, people
(35:51):
call me and they're like, Ijust, I don't know how he's
doing. He's just not himself,he's not happy, he doesn't enjoy
anything anymore. He's justalways uncomfortable and
miserable. And that, that's allwe need to know. And you know,
your dog better than anyone youknow, your dog better than any
vet better than any animaltrainer better than any
(36:14):
veterinary nurse, it's your dog,you know, your dog's person. And
when you see your dog ismiserable, like that, you can
trust that you can trust thatfeeling, you know that, like,
You're not lying to yourself,you know what I mean? You can
trust that intuition.
Charlotte Bayne (36:30):
How do you approach people who may not? You
know, it's really, really tough,so I don't envy anyone who has
to, you know, go through this.
But who may not be, you know,willing to see that their dog
is, they're just not ready tolet go yet. So they may not be
willing to see that their dogis, in fact, just really, he
(36:51):
needs they need for for thegreater good of the dog. If he
needs to be euthanized. He's inpain, or whatever. How do you
approach that with your client?
Obviously, you can't force themto do
Dr. Nick Labriola (37:06):
definitely not and, you know, that's the
thing. We're not here to forceyou to do anything. We're not
here to judge anyone. You know,it's this is all very
subjective, it's going to looktotally different for every
family. And we know that. Right?
Yeah. And to answer yourquestion, it's, it kind of looks
a little different for everyone.
(37:26):
Some people, you just have to,like, hit him with a logic, you
just like, dump that logic onthem. And then they're like, oh,
okay, no, like clicks. Because,you know, the doctor is they're
seeing the animal and the doctoris telling you what's really
happening. And that's what somepeople need. Some people need
the doctor to tell them what'shappening. And then they're
like, oh, okay, and they go fromthere. Now. On the other hand,
(37:52):
sometimes what's really helpfulfor people to understand is that
we see euthanasia, as as endingsuffering, and like putting dogs
out of their misery out of theirsuffering. But what we're also
doing with euthanasia is we'repreventing further suffering
from occurring. Right. So whatwe need to explain to people a
(38:13):
lot of the times, especially ifit's someone that's, you know,
it's the first pet, they'venever been through euthanasia,
you know, we need to let themknow right now, we have this
like, ideal window of time,where we can make this very
easy, and very peaceful and veryquick and very calm for your
pet. But very soon, we might bepast that point, and your pet
(38:35):
might suffer a lot more than itneeds to. And you might find
yourself in a critical emergencysituation. And rather than it
being calm and easy at home, youmight have to rush your pets to
the emergency room. And ofcourse, sometimes that happens
beyond anyone's control.
Sometimes that just happens. Andthat's okay, that doesn't mean
you're like a failure oranything like that, like that
(38:55):
just happens sometimes. Right?
Yeah. So you know, it's just amatter of really helping people
understand, we have theopportunity to make this easy,
we can make this easy for them.
And if we wait too long, it canvery quickly become not easy. So
you know, it's just a matter ofreally, really understanding
(39:16):
that. Again, we can we can cutthe suffering off, we don't need
to make us suffer and continuelike, we can end the suffering
but we can also stop it in itstracks.
Charlotte Bayne (39:33):
As tough as it is,
Dr. Nick Labriola (39:34):
it is you know, it's never easy. It's not
easy to see it's not easy tomake that call, no matter how
clear it is. Sometimes it'salways difficult.
Charlotte Bayne (39:43):
How do you deal with how do you deal with
emotional toll of both for theclient? I'm sure. I'm sure it's
tough. You know, you have you alot of what you do is
emotionally supporting theclient Who's going through this?
And then on the flip side, howdo you deal with your own? You
(40:04):
can answer if you want to. Yeah,you're on emotional support and
having a job like that, whereyou're seeing it seeing so much
loss and seeing people, youknow, in a lot of pain, and you
know, you're doing right bythem, you know, by helping them
through this, but I'm sure ittakes a toll. And I don't know,
in some form or another, itcould be wrong.
Unknown (40:24):
Yeah. Yeah. No, that's a very good question. Yeah.
Yeah. No, that's a greatquestion. And I really
appreciate that. Because, youknow, I'm sure you've had a lot
of vets on the show, I'm sure.
You know, by now, mental healthand veterinary medicine is huge.
Yeah, yeah. Mental health isit's hard for us. And, you know,
I've been very fortunate to workfor lap of love and do hospice
(40:46):
and my mental health has beenlike, better than I ever thought
it could be. Since since doinghospice, which I'm forever
grateful for, and I owe so muchof that to lap of love as a
company. And for me, it's withinwith hospice, as intense as the
work can be. We do have a reallygood work life balance in the
(41:10):
sense of like, days off, andlike hours worked and
everything, you know, we're notstuck in the clinic for 14
hours, six days a week, right?
You know, what I mean? Likerunning running like crazy the
whole time. You know, our jobsare calm, our jobs are slow
paced.
Charlotte Bayne (41:29):
You know, you're there to do. Yeah,
Unknown (41:31):
exactly. And, you know, I know I'm done at this time,
I'm going to be done by thistime, and no one's going to call
me back into the hospital in themiddle of the night. So, again,
as present, as you have to be,and as intense as it is, during
your work day, you know, you'regoing to have a lot of time
where you're not doing that. Soyou have that reserved, like,
(41:51):
you're able to really put yourwhole self into it. And then on
that note, I mean, I, I do a lotof things. Other than being
event I'm into a lot ofdifferent things, like we were
talking about earlier on, intotattoos and piercings and stuff,
I hang out at Pearson shops allthe times. And it's so funny,
because it's like, um, yeah,it's like, I'm like, the doctor.
(42:15):
And it's like a whole thing. Andit's hilarious, because I'm
like, I was actually justtalking about this with some of
the other vets I work with. Alot of my friends outside of
veterinary medicine have my car.
So a ton of like, extreme bodymodifications, like, face
tattoos, like so. When I'm withthem. I feel like I have like no
tattoos. I'm like, I'm like theYou're like
Charlotte Bayne (42:35):
the nerd. Yeah.
Dr. Nick Labriola (42:42):
It's definitely bad having a life
outside of the profession likethat, to me, I really feel like
that makes you a better. I thinkit makes me a better bed,
because it makes me able tofully be in it. When I'm at
work, you know, when I'm atappointments, when I'm when I am
Dr. Nick, I am fully Dr. Nick.
Because, again, I know there'sgoing to be plenty of time
Charlotte Bayne (43:02):
where I'm not.
Well, good. I'm
Dr. Nick Labriola (43:03):
glad that you have that. It's really hard that
a lot of veterinarians are notafforded that my dream for
veterinary medicine is thateverybody somehow finds a way to
make every avenue of veterinarymedicine like that, where you
have enough time off. And youknow, where you can reset, and
you can be who you are outsideof work, and then be who you are
(43:26):
inside work, too. Because a lotof veterinarians are like
trapped in this cycle wherethey're a vet all the time, you
know, that they're never reallyoff work, like they're going
home. And they're consulting allnight and doing records all
night, and getting called backinto the hospital. And then
going back to the hospital againat seven in the morning. You
know what I mean? And it's soheartbreaking to see because I'm
(43:48):
like, all like, Well, okay, mostveterinarians are so extremely,
like compassionate andpassionate about the job and,
and it's just, that's just sucha quick way to, like beat that
out of somebody's burnout. Youknow what I mean, by overworking
someone and, you know, I just, Ijust really hope we figure it
out. I really want to, like,really start being more loud
(44:10):
about that. And yeah, because Ijust we need to figure it out.
Charlotte Bayne (44:15):
That's part of, you know, the vision for this
podcast is to, you know, createawareness around all things
related to, you know, dogs,specifically. Someday cats,
maybe dogs, and part of that is,you know, part of that is, you
know, the people that care forthem, as I've mentioned, and
when we, the more we talk aboutthose kinds of things, the more
(44:38):
people Yeah,
Dr. Nick Labriola (44:38):
you know, that's how it starts. Right?
It's just having that opendialogue. Yeah. Yeah. No,
Charlotte Bayne (44:46):
thank you for that. I wanted to circle back
and talk about how you donavigate the emotions of the
clients. You know,
Dr. Nick Labriola (44:55):
for me, it is this is another thing that's
very different, like literallyEvery family is totally
different. Um, you know, somepeople have been through before,
and it's very clear that it'stime, and they're just so at
peace with it, and they'vealready had their reaction. And,
you know, by the time I getthere, like, they're so ready,
(45:16):
and they're just like, you know,go ahead, and, you know, I do
what I need to do, and it wasjust like, thank you so much.
And that's it. You know, becausethey just, they already went
through it, they went throughit, and before I even got there,
and then by the time I gotthere, they were they were good,
which is that that happens alot. And you know, some people,
(45:37):
I would say, actually, mostpeople, they, as far as
supporting people and theiremotions and guiding people
through their emotions duringthese times, a lot of people
just need you to reassure themthat they are doing the best
thing. Right? That goes such along way. And just when people
see how common okay, you are asthe bed, they take that on.
(46:03):
Because I mean, the procedure isvery serious, this is a very
serious procedure that not justanyone is doing, you know,
something, you really have toknow what you're doing to make
it go okay. And, you know, Ithink a lot of people know that
if anything goes wrong, and it'sgoing to be very clear. So they
look to you for that, for thatreassurance, and that confidence
(46:25):
that everything's going okay,
Charlotte Bayne (46:28):
that they've made the right choice, and that
you think that's right choiceand that you're on board with
it. And that you they trust you.
Exactly, exactly. And then ontop of with the emotions.
Unknown (46:38):
Exactly. And then on top of all that I'm doing the
procedure correctly, I'm keepingthe pet comfortable on, you
know, their pets not sufferingall that. Yeah. So you know,
it's just a matter of being thatfigure for them to just, you
know, be that reassuring figure.
Charlotte Bayne (46:57):
Can we talk about? Can we get a little
technical here and talk aboutwhat exactly the procedure is?
Absolutely. Like, just so peoplecan kind of know, like, what do
you and when we not, you know, Iknow, it's not it's not as
scary? My think, as one mightthink, but like, what is the
medicine and all that jazz?
Unknown (47:20):
Yeah, so, um, we can definitely go over that because
it actually is verystraightforward. It's nothing
too complicated. Again, like Iwas saying earlier, it's very
serious, of course, but youknow, it's nothing. It's nothing
complicated. All we do is justreally strong instead of
dividend paying medicationsfirst. And that shot is just
like any other shot. It's justlike vaccines, medicines, stuff
(47:43):
like that. You know, every nowand again, there's an animal
that will react to that a littlebit because they don't like the
pinch from the needle, but it'snothing that hurts. Yeah, you
know, it's just just, again, anyother shot. As far as the
medications for that, I can'treally speak on that, because
everyone does it differently. SoI what I do I use the only human
(48:03):
drug I use as ketamine. So I useketamine and then butorphanol,
which is an opioid, so likemorphine, and then a xylazine,
which are veterinary sedatives.
So, yeah, they get a mix of allthat stuff. Yeah. So they feel
amazing. They're like cloudnine.
Charlotte Bayne (48:22):
They're just relaxed. And they're, you know,
cloud nine. Yeah.
Dr. Nick Labriola (48:27):
Yeah. And they can hear you they're aware
they can hear you. See you iftheir eyes are open. They're
just like, they're just stillfeeling amazing. No anxiety, you
know, not feeling anythingphysically physical feeling is
gone. They're just like floatingthere with you in their home. So
they feel great.
Charlotte Bayne (48:44):
Right? Like, an anesthesia. Right? So
Dr. Nick Labriola (48:47):
yeah, yeah, yeah, basically. Yeah, exactly.
Actually.
Charlotte Bayne (48:51):
Yeah. I was just thinking the only time I've
ever been to anesthesia, that'swhat it seemed like, yeah.
Dr. Nick Labriola (48:56):
Yeah, that's, that's what they do like, and
usually just after just thatpeople already start feeling
better. Because they see like,that stark difference from when
their pet was suffering to beingin that state. And they're like,
Okay, this is what this is whatshe needed. She needed this.
Once that fully takes effect,then we can do all like the cute
stuff we can make like keepsakesand everything, like play paw
(49:18):
print and for equipping.
Charlotte Bayne (49:21):
You do do all that stuff. You do
Dr. Nick Labriola (49:23):
that? Yeah.
Yeah, it's fun. I liked I liked
Unknown (49:28):
, then we can do all that. And I've done a couple of
doing all that.
nose prints. Yeah. And that's,yeah, that's super fun. I'm not
that good at them. But every nowand then I got like a really
good one. And I'm like, Oh, yes,
Charlotte Bayne (49:43):
I would. Yeah.
I did that for chance. Yeah,yeah.
Dr. Nick Labriola (49:46):
Yeah, you can definitely ask for that. That's
definitely something you can youcan ask for. Yeah, so just a
second. So with this addition,the only truly scary thing that
can happen under sedation, is itis possible for your pet to
happen. seizure under thiscondition. That's just a side
effect that happens. Sometimesit is very rare, exceedingly
rare. And usually, if ithappens, it means they already
(50:11):
had something, some kind ofcondition that was predisposing
them to seizures, whetherthey've had a seizure yet or
not. But that being said, it'svery easily controlled with an
anti seizure medication. So themajority of hospice beds will
have that on hands and can justget get that under control real
quick. So even if that happens,that's not something and it's
(50:33):
not something they're aware of.
They don't know that'shappening.
Charlotte Bayne (50:35):
Okay. Got it.
That makes it better. Yeah.
Dr. Nick Labriola (50:39):
Exactly. It's just like, it's just visually
unappealing to us. It's veryscary. Yeah, exactly. Exactly.
But it's, you know, something wecan get under control very
easily and very quickly. Yeah.
So then, once, once they'reready for the final medication,
the final medication is control.
Barbasol. Okay. And a lot ofpeople think it stops the heart.
(51:01):
It does not stop the heartdirectly. That's all it does is
it shuts down the brain. Sothen, when the brain turns off,
everything else stops. Andthat's kind of what happens when
we sleep. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Tothem, they literally just feel
like they're drifting off tosleep. And it's super easy on
them. And that's it. That's,that's all it is. It's just it's
(51:24):
so so easy for them. And youknow, as as the body is
relaxing, as that medication istaking the Fed, sometimes
literally nothing happens.
Sometimes they they breathe alittle quickly, they went out
some like really did deepexhales, which is totally
normal. That's just thediaphragm relaxing, very normal.
Sometimes there's like littleminor movements, they might
(51:48):
stretch their legs a little bitthere, they might stretch to
their neck a tiny bit. They mayTwitch a tiny bit. Again, all
super normal. That's just themuscles relaxing. Yeah, that's
that's really all they're allthere is it's it's very easy.
It's way less scary than a lotof people are anticipating
doesn't
Charlotte Bayne (52:07):
sound very traumatic. I mean, for the dog,
at least it doesn't sounddramatic. It sounds very
peaceful. Right?
Dr. Nick Labriola (52:13):
Definitely.
And, you know, I would say Imean, the amount of people that
when it's their first timeseeing it, and they're like, oh,
wow, that was like nothing. Andyeah, that's exactly it's not,
it's nothing too crazy. And youknow, that, that, that creates a
lot of calmness for the peopleas well. And that really helps
with emotions as well, when theydo see just how okay, it was.
(52:34):
Yeah, so that's that's kind ofwhat the actual procedure looks
like.
Charlotte Bayne (52:43):
Well, one more question for you. And that is,
yeah. Who should be there duringthis should? And should other
family pets be there? BecauseI've heard mixed things. Should
your other dog be there? Or yourcat if you have one? Or you
know, yes,
Unknown (53:01):
definitely. All the other pets should be there.
Okay. They understand they knowwhat that is. Death is not
stigmatized for them. It's notscary to them. You know, it's
not sad to them. To them. It'swhat happens now normal? Yeah,
yeah, it's Yeah. And they knowthat the patient has saved, you
know, they know, I mean, thinkabout it, if we were to see a
(53:23):
person in end stage kidneyfailure, or, you know,
congestive heart failure orsomething, we would know, we
would know that they're verysick. And it's the same with
animals, you know, they knowthey can tell, and they expect
this to happen, right? You know,they understand, Oh, this one's
super sick. This one's gonna.
They that's, that's nature.
(53:43):
That's, that's just logic tothem. So, you know, sometimes
they sniff sometimes they cuddlea little bit, but sometimes they
they're just in the room, andthey don't really even do
anything, because they're justlike, oh, yeah, I know. You
know, and I think a lot ofpeople will say, Oh, well, my
(54:06):
other dog was like, superdepressed and super anxious
afterward. And most of the time,that's because you left with
your other dog and didn't comeback with it. And then the dog
at home is just like, where's myfriend? Yeah, you know, like,
what happened? And it'sconfusing, you know, they don't
understand. But when they seethe transition, they know, they
(54:28):
understand that they're notgoing to see that animal. Yeah,
and honestly, the best thing foryou other pets is to just do all
the same things with them, keepthem feed them at the same
times, walk them at the sametime. sit on the couch with them
at the same time. You're alwaysyou. You know, you're just like
you Yeah, just add regular tothem. And you know, of course,
(54:52):
you're gonna be sad andeverything and that's fine. You
know, you can be sad in front ofthem. That's okay. But when when
we Put our emotions on them. Andwe're like, overly loving toward
them and like, snuggling themsuper hard and like screaming in
their face and everything.
That's yeah, that's when they'relike, Oh my God, what's wrong?
(55:13):
Like what? Like, why is Mom? Ohmy god and yeah, so, you know
that's not advisable. Right?
Yeah, and other animals aregreat. It's not scary. Yeah, you
know, this is not somethingthat's scary.
Charlotte Bayne (55:28):
But if you had just like an overly excited
puppy or, or you know, a dogthat's just high energy, I would
assume you just, you just maybemanage it by maybe putting them
somewhere where they can watchor putting them in another room
and then letting them come in.
Make sure and sniff make surethey know what's going on.
(55:49):
Right. Yes, exactly. Yeah. Whenyou're when it's all said and
done. Exactly.
Unknown (55:55):
Yeah. And thats the thing. They only need to be
there for the end. They don'thave to be there for the whole
procedure just as long as theycan see your animal afterward.
That's what's important.
Charlotte Bayne (56:03):
Got it? Yeah.
Right. Right. Thank you so much.
Dr. Nick, do you have anythingelse that you want to add? I
think we covered so much.
Dr. Nick Labriola (56:12):
Yeah, no, I think we did cover just about
everything. Yeah, I put outvideos on social media every now
and then. Not always related tohospice. But every now and then
I have like a little pointersabout hospice. So sometimes
that's helpful to people. Onething that I guess I can leave
everybody with, about debt thatwe all really need to consider
(56:35):
that that is something that isnatural, and it's supposed to
happen and and it's okay. And wecan we as humans, we have the
ability to make it a littleeasier than it than it might
have been. And, you know, as asas dark as it all can be. I
think that's a very beautifulpart of what we're able to do.
Charlotte Bayne (57:01):
Thank you so much for listening to this
episode of The Baro podcast. Ifyou want to contact lap of love
veterinary hospice, you canreach them at lap of love.com.
And if you want to follow Dr.
Nick on Instagram, you canfollow him at real doctor neck.
And I put both of those thingsin the show notes so no need to
worry. And as always, if youenjoy listening to the brew
(57:21):
podcast, please don't forget torate us and follow us wherever
you get your podcasts. You canalso follow us on Instagram at
Baruch pet. If you have aquestion for me or a story of
canine companionship that youwant to share on The Baroo. You
can email me at Charlotte atthebaroo.com All right, you guys
let's chat next week.
Hi you guys, thank you so muchfor joining me for this episode
of The Baroo podcast. This isthe first episode of 2023. I'm
kind of jumping into this newseason with probably the hardest
topic when it comes to petguardianship. And that is end of
life care. I have yet to have toexperience end of life care with
(01:01):
my own pup. But as he ages, he'sgoing to be 15 soon. And he's
doing really, really well. I'mjust going to put that out
there. But I thought it would behelpful for me to learn more
about the process of hospicecare, and more about euthanasia.
I'm not certain anything canreally fully prepare me for the
emotional side of losing him.
But I think understanding thepractical side of end of life
(01:24):
and the technical side canhopefully help make it just a
little less scary. So in thisepisode, today, I chat with Dr.
Nick Labriola. of Lap of Loveveterinary hospice. Dr. Nick
specializes in end of life care,and we chat about what to expect
from hospice care, what toexpect from euthanasia, and what
(01:44):
to look for in our pups and howto know when it's time to make
some of those really difficultdecisions. So a warning that the
subject matter is a heavy one.
But Dr. Nick is fabulous. And heanswers my questions while
keeping the tone light. So let'sjust jump into the chat. What
(02:08):
kind of a puppy is he? He'sinto? Wawa? Your puppy?
Dr. Nick Labriola (02:13):
No, no, he's like seven.
Charlotte Bayne (02:14):
Where? How'd you how'd you come about him?
You said Yeah, yeah.
Dr. Nick Labriola (02:17):
So he was one of them. He was one of the
surgery dogs in vet school. Oneof the one of the local rescues,
like they brought a lot of dogsover every week for us to like
spay and neuter. And of course,like we had board certified
surgeons like watching us makingsure we were doing a right and
everything. And yeah, he was oneof them. And I was like, what,
this is a good Chihuahua. I waslike, this is like, one of those
(02:39):
rare, perfect it was like it waskind of a joke. At first. I was
like, Guys, I'm gonna take thatChihuahua. And everyone was
like, Yeah, whatever. And then Iactually did.
Charlotte Bayne (02:52):
is that your first dog?
Dr. Nick Labriola (02:57):
I grew up with a dog that lived for like
17 years. He like actually justrecently passed. But this is
like the first dog that was likemine. Yeah.
Charlotte Bayne (03:08):
Yeah. So you took him home? And how old was
he when you took him home?
Dr. Nick Labriola (03:11):
I don't know.
He was very young. He had allhis adult teeth, which was
mature and grow up like veryearly. So they look like adults.
By the time they're like six,seven months old. So you could
have been like six months old.
You could have been like a yearold. You could have been two
years old.
Charlotte Bayne (03:27):
Do you have any other animals? Yes.
Dr. Nick Labriola (03:28):
So many.
Yeah. So I have two cats thatare also rescues that happened.
One was like right before thatschool and the other was during
that school. I have sugargliders. I have African pygmy
door mice these snakes I havefish. I have a jumping spider.
And most of them are in likeenclosures in cages and stuff.
(03:48):
But yeah, and that's for me,that's not that much. Like
there's been times where I'vehad like, a ton of animals. Like
I've had a lot of differentreptiles and amphibians all at
once. I've had like tarantulasand scorpions, like many all at
once. Oh, yeah. So I kind oflike I kind of have like a
(04:09):
little bit of every kind ofanimal I don't really do birds.
Eye birds and I appreciatebirds, but I don't see it for
myself. You know what I mean? Iwould see myself having a bird.
But
Charlotte Bayne (04:22):
yeah, right.
Because it's just too it's toomuch. There she's I don't have
the right space. All the above?
Yeah, I feel like they need tofly. And I feel like yeah,
that's tough to have.
Does that just mean like anenclosed enclosure so they can
Dr. Nick Labriola (04:37):
That would be ideal. And yeah, that would
definitely be ideal. And I wishmore people with like yards
like even if it's just like asmall backyard but set up like a
flight cage or something.
fly around in the yard like anetted tarp or something like
that.
Exactly. Yeah, exactly. Like yousee, like zoos and everything
(04:59):
where it's just like a bigliike, structure so they can.
Yeah. I would love to see peopledoing more that
Charlotte Bayne (05:06):
You have. I definitely have a full house.
Dr. Nick Labriola (05:09):
like, yeah, it's kind of always changing.
Like I'm always open to takinganimals and everything. There's
been there was a time I was likethis close to having an
armadillo. Oh my gosh. Thatmight still happen one of these
days.
Charlotte Bayne (05:23):
Where do you where do you find the animals?
Do you? Do you rescue them all?
Or do you just have you justcome about them? Or how does
that work?
Dr. Nick Labriola (05:30):
Yeah, so it's time to just stumbling upon
them. So I before I was event, Iworked in an Exotic Animal
Hospital and it was only exoticpets. So I met like a ton of
people that work with exoticanimals and like geological
species through that job. Andthen even just in college, so I
studied zoology in college.
Okay. So that was like my, myundergraduate it was a Waluigi.
(05:52):
So that's what I chose. And Imet a ton of people in there
that wanted to be zookeepers,and I even kind of wanted to do
that for a little bit. So I knowlike a ton of zookeepers, it's
on people that work in likerescue crews, all that stuff. So
I'm always like, hearing frompeople like, Hey, my friend had
this you has a bunch of beeslike you want one. And so like,
Charlotte Bayne (06:18):
so you've always been interested in
animals. Did you know that youwanted to work with animals your
whole life? Or is that a new?
Okay? Yes. As an adult?
Dr. Nick Labriola (06:26):
Yeah, yeah, definitely. My whole life. I
definitely knew I loved animalsand wanted to work with animals
and like be around animals. ButI did not always know I wanted
to be a vet. Deciding reallydeciding to be a veterinarian
was later in life that was likein my adult life. It was always
on my mind, of course, becausewhen you're a kid, and you like
(06:47):
animals, everyone's like, Oh,you're gonna be a vet. When you
grow up, you have to be a bit,you know? But yeah, I was not
really too interested in it fora while, because I was like, No,
that's a lot of school. I hateschool. I don't want to go to
med school. Like, why would I dothat? But yeah, when I got that
job at that Exotic AnimalHospital, that was like the
beginning of college, and I lovethis so much. And I was like,
(07:09):
This is what I have to do. Like,this is clearly the path for me
right now. So
Charlotte Bayne (07:14):
working with animals being a veterinarian.
Yeah. So what led you to lap oflove, which is the company that
you work with right now, whichis Lap of Love, specializes in
end of life care, which is whatwe're going to talk about today,
hospice care and euthanasia,which is a really tough subject.
Obviously, it's incrediblyimportant, which is why I wanted
(07:37):
to have you on because I thinkit is, the tough part of being a
pet parent is at some point, youare most likely going to have to
deal with end of life hospicecare and euthanasia, if you're
not lucky enough to have yourpet passed peacefully on their
own, which is rare, I think. Butlack of love is an amazing
(08:02):
company. And I know it'snationwide. And from what you
told me earlier, you started outworking with them just like in
the office. Right? And then youfound your passion that way. Do
you want to expand on that?
Yeah, I definitely
Dr. Nick Labriola (08:15):
Yeah, I definitely did not know I wanted
to focus on hospice. I wasn'teven super aware of veterinary
hospice during vet school. LikeI knew there were veterinarians
that's in home euthanasia, andeverything, but I was not aware
of like the full scope ofveterinary hospitals by any
means. So I started off aftervet school, I started in Miami,
(08:35):
Florida, again, working withexotic animals, because there's
so many exotic animals in Miami,like that is the place if you
want to work with exoticanimals, you need to go to South
Florida or Texas, Texas andSouth Florida. Those are the
exotic animals.
Charlotte Bayne (08:49):
Do you do you have to do you have to study
exotic animals in that school,or I feel like a lot of the vets
I've talked to studied, likeexotic animals.
Dr. Nick Labriola (09:01):
This is gonna be kind of controversial, but
I'll just go ahead and say
Charlotte Bayne (09:04):
we like that.
Dr. Nick Labriola (09:08):
Basically, in vet school, it's man, I'm so
sorry. I really don't know, likea nice way to put this but they
try to appease the the studentsthat are into exotics and stuff
like that by having like littlelike mini lectures, you know,
they'll be like, Oh, this is ourexotic, right, right. Right. And
it's like one short lecture inthe morning, like once a week
(09:29):
that nobody goes through. Youknow what I mean? So, yes, it's
part of the curriculum, but it'snot it's any it's not anywhere
near like the level of dogs andcats. So I got to Miami. And
basically, Miami is superexpensive. Of course. I needed
more than one job like Icouldn't. You do not get paid a
(09:50):
lot right out of med school.
Veterinarians just in generaldon't make that much money. So
as like a new grad and a newjob, like learning working under
vets. I was not making that muchmoney at all. And that's a whole
other conversation, right? Yeah.
The compensation in veterinarymedicine is like a whole other
story,
Charlotte Bayne (10:08):
compared to like, the school loans and all
of the things. Yeah,
Dr. Nick Labriola (10:11):
exactly. And then, exactly in comparison,
like human doctors, like we'dmake, like pennies compared to
human doctors, and we do all thesame things and sometimes more.
Right. And that's, that's notyou know, that's not a shot at
human doctors at all. That'sjust a fact. Yeah,
Charlotte Bayne (10:26):
no, it's, uh, yeah, we touched on that. When I
had Not One More Vet on wetalked about some of the some of
the stressors having to dealwith veterinarians. Yeah.
Unknown (10:37):
Yeah, so I needed I definitely needed more than one
job. So I was, um, I found lapof love. And I was working for a
lap of lof part time, justanswering the phones. And it was
it was a work from home job. AndI was just like, logging into
the lap of love system. And itwas everything from like
(10:57):
scheduling appointments forpeople with like the doctors
working on the field to like,doing little mini quick consults
for people answering medicalquestions, like, you know,
somebody answered the phone. Andthey didn't have much of a
medical background. And theclient was asking a lot of
questions about like thecondition of the pet and
everything. They could say, Hey,I'm not really sure. But I can
(11:18):
transfer you to Dr. Nic, andhe'd be happy to talk to you.
And it was great. It wasamazing. I would literally do it
at the end of the night, like Iwould be working a full day at
the clinic. And I would go homeand immediately started doing
that for like four or fivehours, which sounds insane. And
looking back, I can't believe Idid it. And working for lap of
(11:40):
love, it did not feel like I wasgoing home and working more like
I was very happy to do it. And Iwas really looking forward to
it. And it was so fulfilling.
And it felt so good to be ableto help people in that way. So I
became very passionate aboutveterinary hospice. And it
started to be something that Ireally felt like was my calling,
you know what I mean? It's, Ifeel like a lot of people that
(12:02):
get into hospice have that weirdkind of indescribable feeling,
where it just feels likesomething they need to be doing.
It just feels like what youshould be doing what you're
supposed to be doing. Andthere's really not too much else
I can say because it's just afeeling that you get. And you
just have to listen to those gutfeelings. Absolutely. You know,
you've got to listen to stufflike that. So basically, again,
(12:24):
to make a very long story alittle shorter. I was working at
the clinic, and I saw someone dosomething very, very bad. Yeah,
related to related to euthanasiaand everything. You know, it was
it was really dark, really bad.
(12:48):
Like, I couldn't believe it washappening. I didn't say sorry.
Yeah, you know, it's okay. Itwas very hard to see. And to
this day, I can't believe I evensaw it. But at the same time
that put me on the track tohospitals, because when when I
saw that happening, I was justso like, shocked and appalled
and just like aghast and indisbelief. And I was like, this
(13:09):
will never happen again. WhenI'm around.
Charlotte Bayne (13:11):
What is it something that commonly happens?
Or okay. Someone just didsomething completely awful.
Dr. Nick Labriola (13:21):
Yeah, like, so ridiculous. I've never seen
anything like it before orafter. Yeah, I've never seen
anything like it. It's the worstthing within veterinary medicine
I've ever seen.
Charlotte Bayne (13:33):
I'm not gonna ask what it was. But I'm so
sorry that you had to deal withit. Yeah.
Dr. Nick Labriola (13:38):
Yeah. No, thank you. I appreciate that.
And, you know, again, it's like,I'm grateful for the experience
in the sense of the path thatI'm on. Yeah. Yeah, and I hate
that that animal like had tosuffer for that to happen. By
now like it with that fire needsto make sure no animal that I'm
(14:01):
sitting Derome ever suffersagain. You know, not that that
was my patient. Right.
Charlotte Bayne (14:06):
Right. But you know that you are that you are
giving the best end of life carethat you can possibly get in
that. Exactly. Feeling. Yeah.
Dr. Nick Labriola (14:16):
Yeah. And then like, literally the next
week, I went to that clinic. AndI was like, I'm so done. Yeah.
And I quit. And then I went tothe lap of love. And I was like,
Hey, guys, like hospice isclearly my passion. This is what
I want to do. Like, I want tolike be a doctor for you guys
full time not just answering thephones part time. And they were
like, yes. You know, they wereimmediately like, yeah, we would
(14:37):
love to have you. Yeah, sothat's kind of how it happens.
Charlotte Bayne (14:41):
You're lucky that you, you were able to find
something that speaks to you sodeeply, you know, and that you
know that you're doing the thingthat you're supposed to be doing
right. I think a lot of peoplestrive to find that. Yeah,
Unknown (14:54):
exactly. And it's definitely Yeah, and it's it's
weird because I've been very,very lucky. And almost I would
almost say privileged toexperience that like, throughout
life, for some reason, like,when I was in high school and
like middle school when I wasyounger, it was music like I was
a band kid, I was in marchingband and all that
Charlotte Bayne (15:15):
What did you?
Did you play drums or?
Dr. Nick Labriola (15:19):
Yeah, so I played I played trumpet in
marching band, all throughouthigh school in college,
actually. And then I playedFrench horn. Yeah, and I played
French horn band class. Mostpeople just call it horn. Nobody
really says french horn anymore.
But yeah, I played that class.
And like, that was my thing.
Back then, you know, music waslike my calling and my passion.
And then when I got to college,it was like, you know, exotic
(15:41):
animals and, you know, workingwith all these crazy species and
keeping exotic pets and allthat. And then then it became
hospice was my calling. And nowthere's a lot of other things in
life that I feel like are mynext calling. And it's like,
I've always kind of had thatwhere I just feel so drawn to
certain things. And it's soclear that I should be involved
(16:02):
in these certain things. Andright people ask, they're like,
how do you know like, how wereyou? So sure? How do you like
find your passion? And I'm like,I don't know. Like, it's just
Charlotte Bayne (16:12):
sounds like you've been pretty lucky. Yeah.
Unknown (16:14):
Yeah. And I'm very grateful for that aspects of my
life. You know, that'sdefinitely one of the better
aspects of the life that I'velived so far is that I've always
had very like obvious callingsthroughout many stages of life.
So
Charlotte Bayne (16:26):
right. Do you still play trumpet? No,
Dr. Nick Labriola (16:30):
not really.
Not really, I really want to getback in back into it, like
really bad. But it's been awhile. Like, I can still read
music, and I still like rememberhow to play and everything. But
I mean, it would take me a whileand so I'd be actually good at
it.
Charlotte Bayne (16:46):
You said there are some other things that
you're passionate about. Now? Doyou want to share that? Or? I
have to
Dr. Nick Labriola (16:50):
Yeah, definitely. Yeah. So I've always
been into like tattoos andpiercings. Okay. In the past,
like, year or two, I've startedlike really taking, like the
body art industry reallyseriously. And, you know, really
learning about it. And likehanging out at shops and stuff
and getting like high qualityjewelry and like way more
piercings, and way more tattoos?
Yeah. Yeah. So it's like, I'mhoping that that can be my next
(17:15):
like, my next thing, Idefinitely I'm not gonna leave
veterinary medicine or anything,I would never do that. But, you
know, I'm at a point now wheremy career as a bad has calmed
down enough to where I'm stableenough in my career as a bit
where I can explore other thingsnow, without, without my
practice suffering, you know,literally,
Charlotte Bayne (17:36):
and also that those things have a lot of
creative expression in them. Ithink we all want to be getting
at make money doing some somesort of creative outlet as well.
So Right,
Dr. Nick Labriola (17:47):
exactly.
Everyone should have a creativeoutlet. And that's so important.
Charlotte Bayne (17:50):
Yeah. Well, let's jump into some of the
harder stuff. Thank you forsharing this. Can we talk a
little bit aboutLap of Love, first of all, and
what the what it is that theyactually do? I know, they're a
really wonderful organizationthat I've been referred to, that
I've referred some clients to,and that I, I have researched
(18:12):
myself, my just kind of toprepare for those moments, where
my guy is a very healthy, almost15, but I feel I feel myself
getting. And I know he's gonnabe fifteen next month, February
21. Technically, that's hisadoption day, but, but I do find
myself wanting to be preparedmore, which is part of why I
(18:35):
wanted to have you on to talkabout that, because I think it's
just so important for us to tryto get as much information as we
can, you know, in order toprepare ourselves, practically
and mentally and spiritually andall of the things I think, the
more we know, the more we can beprepared, even though that is
not going to happen anytimesoon. For us. We have a good
(18:55):
Yeah, four more years. I'munderstand more years.
Dr. Nick Labriola (19:01):
I've seen it.
I've seen it. I know. I've seendogs go way past 15.
Charlotte Bayne (19:07):
Oh, yeah. I mean, he's not I mean, he's not
slowing down. I mean, he I mean,he is technically slowing down
physically and mentally, butother than that he's trucking
along. So that's good. don'teven want to jinx it by talking
about it. So anyway, let's jumpinto talking a little bit about
lack of love and what exactlythat is and that they offer.
Dr. Nick Labriola (19:29):
Yeah, definitely. Yeah, I think you
made a great point, saying that,you know, it's important that we
talk about it so we can be moreprepared. Because, you know, I
think just talking about thesethings in in a very normalized
setting like this really helpsdestigmatize it and it makes it
less scary and less daunting andless shocking. Yeah, right. I
Charlotte Bayne (19:52):
mean, I have a ton of anxiety even talking
about it right now. It's makingme a little a little anxious and
Unknown (19:58):
that's normal. That's Same that's very normal. Yeah,
yeah, that's and that's totallyokay. And that's, you know, I
think that's where we come inwith lack of love. Like we're
the ones that can talk about itwithout being anxious. Yeah.
And, you know, we want to helpyou guys get there. Right? And
maybe not even there, but atleast a little less anxious.
Right. You know? Yeah. Sobasically lap of love as a
(20:24):
service. So we are a nationwidecompany. So wherever you're
listening, we're probably inyour area. We're in almost every
major city in the US. There'sjust a handful of states where
we don't have any doctors. We'renot in Alaska or Hawaii yet, but
hopefully that will come in thefuture. Yeah, and we're a
(20:45):
strictly mobile hospice service.
We don't have an office, there'sno clinic, there's no building,
there's no office, there'snothing. It's all mobile, we do
everything in your home. Andit's very, for lack of a better
term. It's very, very low key.
You know, we don't bring toomuch with us. We just we have
Dr. Bags, filled with all kindsof things. And that's it,
Charlotte Bayne (21:07):
it would seem like from a veterinary
perspective, it would might besomething that's kind of like,
you know, you're you're helpingpeople and pets, and it's, it's
almost like it's a much morepeaceful.
Dr. Nick Labriola (21:23):
Yes, yes, yes, definitely.
Charlotte Bayne (21:26):
I mean, I know that sounds sounds horrible. No,
I
Dr. Nick Labriola (21:28):
know exactly what you kind of that is how
most of us feel without it, forsure.
Charlotte Bayne (21:34):
Yeah. And you have to have a ton of compassion
to do that, I think and to be aspecial kind of doctor, right?
Dr. Nick Labriola (21:43):
Yeah, I had no idea that I was compassionate
in that way. And that I was sopatient and kind and all that.
It's just, it's something thatbecame clear when I got into
hospice. And that's kind of howit happens. For a lot of us, we
just feel that the draw to getinto hospice, and then we
realize like, oh, wow, I amsomeone that that can do this.
Like, I'm someone that can guidefamilies through this time. And
(22:06):
I can be there for these people.
And, you know, it's you learn alot about yourself, learning
about not just how I react tothat, but also seeing it from
the perspective of from anoutside perspective, rather than
being the one that's directlyexperienced, experiencing it,
like, seeing it through adifferent lens and seeing how,
although this family is likeheartbroken, they're also
(22:30):
relieved, like, I can see reliefthrough those emotions, because
they see their baby is finallyokay. And finally.
Charlotte Bayne (22:38):
And they are not in pain anymore.
Dr. Nick Labriola (22:42):
Exactly. And seeing that really helped. Kind
of just normalize death, anddestigmatize death for me, and
just, it made me be able to seeit as something natural than
something that's okay. Atsomething that everything is
supposed to do.
Charlotte Bayne (23:01):
Yeah. And it's just so scary for a lot of for a
lot of us, you know, becauseit's the unknown. It definitely
is. And we and we mourn thosethat aren't here. And we miss
them. But definitely, um, solet's circle back to you. What
exactly. Lap of love. Yeah, it'slike how they show up for you as
it pet parent.
Unknown (23:22):
Yeah. So in addition to what I was saying earlier,
there's there's three types ofappointments. One appointment is
a tele advice appointment, whereyou can just get on the phone
with a doctor, you can get onSkype or whatever, or FaceTime,
whatever with a doctor and justtalk about what's going on kind
of figure out whether or notit's the right time when the
(23:45):
right time might be. Now we'renot to the level of human
telehealth, where you know,human doctors can actually
prescribe your medicationsthrough telehealth and
everything. We can't really doall that yet. So we're hoping
veterinary medicine is very new.
But that is an option. And thenwe have hospice appointments.
Were kind of similar, we discusswhat's going on, see what's
(24:07):
going on, assess the situation.
And we figure out how to makeyour pet more comfortable. And
that can be anything from like anew medication protocol to just
adjusting the current medicationprotocol to non medical things
such as like putting yoga matsdown on the tile floor and so
(24:30):
it's easier for him to walk or,you know, putting water bowls in
every room so he doesn't have totravel too far to get water. You
know, it's just simple thingslike that.
Charlotte Bayne (24:41):
It's amazing how much those simple things I
have a golden retriever that Icare for who is chance's his
best friends and he's had likenine lives. I mean, we're pretty
sure he ate like yeah He's inwhen he was five and he was
hospitalized for three weeks. Hewas hospitalized.
Unknown (25:04):
Thats old for a golden retriever.
Charlotte Bayne (25:05):
Totally. We don't know what he got into, but
they were like probably ratpoison. And then he had a bout
of possible cancer. I'm notquite can't quite remember, but
it was just that was just a fewyears ago, anyhow. And he had
like a back thing. And once weput all that, I mean, he gets
acupuncture and he gets a lot ofrehabilitative, you know,
(25:27):
treatments and great stuff. Butputting those mat those rugs
down on his area, like in thekitchen, where he just kind of
stays. We covered the kitchenwith rugs. I mean, he's like a
different dog.
Dr. Nick Labriola (25:42):
See, it's not crazy. People don't realize how
hard tile and hardwood flooringis for dogs to walk on. And for
some they're
Charlotte Bayne (25:56):
I think he was like putting his back out every
time he tried to get up off thewood. Yeah, you know, I think he
was straining it. And I think inputting those down, like he gets
out. I mean, it's stillstruggles to get up, but he's
got grip. And once he's up, he'sraring to go, you know? And
yeah,
Dr. Nick Labriola (26:11):
that's awesome.
Charlotte Bayne (26:12):
It's really great. Yeah.
Dr. Nick Labriola (26:13):
Yeah, no, that's great. And that's exactly
what a hospice appointment is.
It's like just figuring out whatwe can do to get them to that
point. So we don't have toeuthanize today, you know, we
can euthanize like a couplemonths later.
Charlotte Bayne (26:27):
When are we supposed to reach out to you?
Like, is that something that wediscuss with our regular
veterinarian? Or how do we knowwhen the right time is?
Unknown (26:38):
Yeah, yeah, that's a great question. Yeah, so then,
the other appointment we have isa euthanasia appointment, which
is self explanatory. Um, youknow, that's when we come in and
perform the euthanasia. And sowhen, when it's time when you
call. So first of all, you cancall us whenever you want, like,
you know, you can call us. Yeah,yeah, you're always welcome to
(27:01):
call and just some people callall the time and just ask a
bunch of questions. You know,you do not have to be scheduling
an appointment when you call.
That's totally, you know, that'stotally okay. Yeah. Yeah. So
usually, I would say that the,the, the typical kind of like
pipeline of how people would getan appointment with us, is,
their dogs getting older, theybring it to their general
practice bed, which is just, youknow, the vet, you go to all the
(27:23):
time for the vaccines andwhatever, whatever. You know,
they they bring their dog in,and they say, Hey, he's getting
old. What do we do? And then thevet without even realizing it,
the general practice vetusually does a little hospital
visit. Which is funny because alot of vets are doing hospice
and not even realize it. That's,that's something we talked about
(27:44):
a lot. Is there? Yeah, usuallythat happens. And then usually
during that conversation, orshortly after that appointment,
they say, Hey, you're gonna wantto start thinking about the
transition. We can do here. Butthere's also other options, you
know, and then that's whenthey'll mention lap of love or
another company that does it. Orsometimes they do it. There are
(28:05):
general practice vets that will,you know, schedule specific
appointments to go to your home.
Not really as much anymore.
That's, yeah, that's gettingkind of kind of like old school.
Not not a lot of vets that dogeneral practice do that
anymore. But there are some
Charlotte Bayne (28:25):
why? Why do you think that's getting old school?
Just technicalities? Or justbecause there's too You're too
busy doing other things? Yeah.
Unknown (28:31):
Yeah. Both? Both? Yeah.
Yeah. So then that's when peoplefind lap of love and call and
schedule, either schedule theappointment or just ask
questions. But yeah, some peoplejust honestly, sometimes. It's
just very, very clear. Like, theanimal is very obviously, in
very obviously needs totransition. And people just find
(28:54):
us on Google and just call andschedule right then and there.
You know, so there's a lot ofdifferent ways that can happen.
Charlotte Bayne (29:02):
What if someone called you and they think their
their dog needs to beeuthanized? And you get there
and you're like, No, they're notthese aren't, these are the
signs of the dog needing to beeuthanized. Okay, so does that
happen or no? Yes,
Dr. Nick Labriola (29:17):
it does.
That's a really good question.
Because I can totally build offthat to kind of go over some
signs because that's superimportant. Yeah, so that That
definitely happens. And yeah, wejust tell people like, hey,
look, he's actually doing okay,we don't have to do this right
now. We and usually, we,oftentimes we can, depending on
(29:39):
the diagnosis that the dog has,if the dog has had a diagnosis
or a cat or whatever animaloftentimes it is technically
humane to proceed. There's quitea few diagnosis where pretty
much as soon as they have thediagnosis, it's okay to proceed
at any point. Um,
Charlotte Bayne (30:01):
what some of those be?
Unknown (30:02):
Yeah, definitely.So, just off the top like lymphoma
and angiosarcoma, gi lymphoma,any kind of lymphoma, what's the
A, any kind of like internalbleeding, any kind of like fluid
buildup in the lungs or in theabdomen? Anything like that,
like you're okay to go ahead andit doesn't have to be right then
(30:22):
in there. But it's probablygonna be soon. So. So yeah, you
know, it just depends. And yeah,sometimes they just they just
got diagnosed with let's say,let's say lymphoma that just got
the lymphoma diagnosis, but whatthey're doing fine. And we just
tell them, hey, you can we canuse these meds for a while. And
(30:43):
he'll probably be right for alittle while. And we don't have
to do it today. And usuallypeople are cool with that.
They're like, okay, yeah, well,we'll do that. Right. But then,
you know, sometimes people arejust on the on the page of No, I
don't want to even go throughthis. I can't deal with that. I
can't do this. And that's fine.
That is totally okay.
Charlotte Bayne (31:04):
When, when do you? What are some of the signs
that it is time?
Dr. Nick Labriola (31:12):
Yes. So signs that it's time, the most helpful
thing I can say is that what'sactually better to look at is
knowing things that are notsigns. Okay? So, people, there's
two things that people likecling to. And there are two
(31:34):
things that are not good signsof how your pet is doing. So one
is eating. Yeah. And then theother is tail wagging, or like
purring for a cat. And all thetime we hear it all the time,
people will say oh, but she'sstill eating. And what's very
(31:56):
important to realize is, dogs,especially a lot of animals,
especially dogs will eat nomatter you're
Charlotte Bayne (32:03):
gonna keep on going till that very last.
That's the thing.
Unknown (32:07):
And we have to remind people a lot, wait, that's not a
good measure of where your petis at, like in, in the
progression of their disease.
I've seen dogs in scary badcondition like barely anything
with us that that still like aresomehow gobbling up if you put
it in front of their mouth. Soyeah, that that. On the other
(32:27):
hand, if they stop eating,that's your ears. You know, if
it's, you know, your lab, goldenretriever that needs everything,
and suddenly he's not eating,that's definitely a sign that
something's going on. Butcontinuing to eat is not a good
measure of where they're at. Andso try to not even like think
about that with tail wagging andpurring and things like that,
(32:48):
you know, people will say, Oh, Imean, he still wags his tail
when I come home. So it's fine,right? And I'm like, Yeah, I
mean, he's happy to see you butyour dog and sometimes our cats
to like they're gonna be happyto see you no matter what. Yeah,
it's the end again, especiallyyour labs. You're golden
retrievers. You know, you'rehappy dogs. Yeah, you know, no
(33:10):
matter how they feel when theysee you, they're gonna feel
amazing. They're gonna be
Charlotte Bayne (33:18):
they love you.
You have a whole whole dog intoconsideration. Exactly.
Unknown (33:22):
And on that same note, dogs wag their tails and cats
purr for so many differentreasons. It does not necessarily
mean they're happy, like, Ihope, right? I don't know if
you've seen a dog fight. I hopeyou never have to, if you
haven't, Yeah, I'm sure yeah, inyour line of work. You know,
those dog tails are wagging likecrazy the whole time?
Charlotte Bayne (33:45):
Yeah, they wag their tails for arousal. They
wag their tails to sometimes mydog has sciatica. My dog had
thug, hiccups, sciatica, and histail has just started. He does
like a really rapid wag and thenthat lands to the left. And I
showed my veterinarian a videoand she's like, Yeah, that's
probably where his sciatica ishaving an issue. And so for
(34:07):
whatever reason, his tail iswagging. And in response to
that, because it's like not it'sa stiff, not normal tech. Yeah,
happiness is a wavy relax. Yes.
Slowly. Yes, that's right, forthe most part, and any other
tail is telling you eitherthey're very excited. They're
upset or anxious.
Dr. Nick Labriola (34:27):
Yeah.
Charlotte Bayne (34:28):
Yes, yeah. So anyway, so those are not good,
good signs of where your dog isat. As far as if they're ready
to transition or exactly. So.
What so what are some prettyobvious,
Unknown (34:44):
pretty obvious signs?
All I need to hear as the vet, Idon't care what your dog's
diagnosis is. I mean, I do carebut you know, I'm not I'm not
worried about the name of yourdog's disease. If you're telling
me that He's not happy, or she'snot herself. Anything to that
effect. That's all I need tohear. And, you know, I think we
(35:05):
get so caught up in the diseaseprocess. And oh, the vet said,
the vet said, Yes, six monthslater that said, you know, at
this point, we'll have to dothis, and we'll up his meds at
this point and did that. Andit's like, yeah, that's
important to be aware of,that's, of course, very, like
vital information to have. Butno matter where no matter what
(35:27):
dose of medication, they're on,no matter how long they've had
the disease, if your animal isnot happy, then it's time.
Right? Like, that's, that's whatI need to I need to know whether
or not your animal was enjoyingtheir life, and enjoying the
things they usually enjoy doing,are they able to do the things
they enjoy? You know, thingslike that. And, you know, people
(35:51):
call me and they're like, Ijust, I don't know how he's
doing. He's just not himself,he's not happy, he doesn't enjoy
anything anymore. He's justalways uncomfortable and
miserable. And that, that's allwe need to know. And you know,
your dog better than anyone youknow, your dog better than any
vet better than any animaltrainer better than any
(36:14):
veterinary nurse, it's your dog,you know, your dog's person. And
when you see your dog ismiserable, like that, you can
trust that you can trust thatfeeling, you know that, like,
You're not lying to yourself,you know what I mean? You can
trust that intuition.
Charlotte Bayne (36:30):
How do you approach people who may not? You
know, it's really, really tough,so I don't envy anyone who has
to, you know, go through this.
But who may not be, you know,willing to see that their dog
is, they're just not ready tolet go yet. So they may not be
willing to see that their dogis, in fact, just really, he
(36:51):
needs they need for for thegreater good of the dog. If he
needs to be euthanized. He's inpain, or whatever. How do you
approach that with your client?
Obviously, you can't force themto do
Dr. Nick Labriola (37:06):
definitely not and, you know, that's the
thing. We're not here to forceyou to do anything. We're not
here to judge anyone. You know,it's this is all very
subjective, it's going to looktotally different for every
family. And we know that. Right?
Yeah. And to answer yourquestion, it's, it kind of looks
a little different for everyone.
(37:26):
Some people, you just have to,like, hit him with a logic, you
just like, dump that logic onthem. And then they're like, oh,
okay, no, like clicks. Because,you know, the doctor is they're
seeing the animal and the doctoris telling you what's really
happening. And that's what somepeople need. Some people need
the doctor to tell them what'shappening. And then they're
like, oh, okay, and they go fromthere. Now. On the other hand,
(37:52):
sometimes what's really helpfulfor people to understand is that
we see euthanasia, as as endingsuffering, and like putting dogs
out of their misery out of theirsuffering. But what we're also
doing with euthanasia is we'repreventing further suffering
from occurring. Right. So whatwe need to explain to people a
(38:13):
lot of the times, especially ifit's someone that's, you know,
it's the first pet, they'venever been through euthanasia,
you know, we need to let themknow right now, we have this
like, ideal window of time,where we can make this very
easy, and very peaceful and veryquick and very calm for your
pet. But very soon, we might bepast that point, and your pet
(38:35):
might suffer a lot more than itneeds to. And you might find
yourself in a critical emergencysituation. And rather than it
being calm and easy at home, youmight have to rush your pets to
the emergency room. And ofcourse, sometimes that happens
beyond anyone's control.
Sometimes that just happens. Andthat's okay, that doesn't mean
you're like a failure oranything like that, like that
(38:55):
just happens sometimes. Right?
Yeah. So you know, it's just amatter of really helping people
understand, we have theopportunity to make this easy,
we can make this easy for them.
And if we wait too long, it canvery quickly become not easy. So
you know, it's just a matter ofreally, really understanding
(39:16):
that. Again, we can we can cutthe suffering off, we don't need
to make us suffer and continuelike, we can end the suffering
but we can also stop it in itstracks.
Charlotte Bayne (39:33):
As tough as it is,
Dr. Nick Labriola (39:34):
it is you know, it's never easy. It's not
easy to see it's not easy tomake that call, no matter how
clear it is. Sometimes it'salways difficult.
Charlotte Bayne (39:43):
How do you deal with how do you deal with
emotional toll of both for theclient? I'm sure. I'm sure it's
tough. You know, you have you alot of what you do is
emotionally supporting theclient Who's going through this?
And then on the flip side, howdo you deal with your own? You
(40:04):
can answer if you want to. Yeah,you're on emotional support and
having a job like that, whereyou're seeing it seeing so much
loss and seeing people, youknow, in a lot of pain, and you
know, you're doing right bythem, you know, by helping them
through this, but I'm sure ittakes a toll. And I don't know,
in some form or another, itcould be wrong.
Unknown (40:24):
Yeah. Yeah. No, that's a very good question. Yeah.
Yeah. No, that's a greatquestion. And I really
appreciate that. Because, youknow, I'm sure you've had a lot
of vets on the show, I'm sure.
You know, by now, mental healthand veterinary medicine is huge.
Yeah, yeah. Mental health isit's hard for us. And, you know,
I've been very fortunate to workfor lap of love and do hospice
(40:46):
and my mental health has beenlike, better than I ever thought
it could be. Since since doinghospice, which I'm forever
grateful for, and I owe so muchof that to lap of love as a
company. And for me, it's withinwith hospice, as intense as the
work can be. We do have a reallygood work life balance in the
(41:10):
sense of like, days off, andlike hours worked and
everything, you know, we're notstuck in the clinic for 14
hours, six days a week, right?
You know, what I mean? Likerunning running like crazy the
whole time. You know, our jobsare calm, our jobs are slow
paced.
Charlotte Bayne (41:29):
You know, you're there to do. Yeah,
Unknown (41:31):
exactly. And, you know, I know I'm done at this time,
I'm going to be done by thistime, and no one's going to call
me back into the hospital in themiddle of the night. So, again,
as present, as you have to be,and as intense as it is, during
your work day, you know, you'regoing to have a lot of time
where you're not doing that. Soyou have that reserved, like,
(41:51):
you're able to really put yourwhole self into it. And then on
that note, I mean, I, I do a lotof things. Other than being
event I'm into a lot ofdifferent things, like we were
talking about earlier on, intotattoos and piercings and stuff,
I hang out at Pearson shops allthe times. And it's so funny,
because it's like, um, yeah,it's like, I'm like, the doctor.
(42:15):
And it's like a whole thing. Andit's hilarious, because I'm
like, I was actually justtalking about this with some of
the other vets I work with. Alot of my friends outside of
veterinary medicine have my car.
So a ton of like, extreme bodymodifications, like, face
tattoos, like so. When I'm withthem. I feel like I have like no
tattoos. I'm like, I'm like theYou're like
Charlotte Bayne (42:35):
the nerd. Yeah.
Dr. Nick Labriola (42:42):
It's definitely bad having a life
outside of the profession likethat, to me, I really feel like
that makes you a better. I thinkit makes me a better bed,
because it makes me able tofully be in it. When I'm at
work, you know, when I'm atappointments, when I'm when I am
Dr. Nick, I am fully Dr. Nick.
Because, again, I know there'sgoing to be plenty of time
Charlotte Bayne (43:02):
where I'm not.
Well, good. I'm
Dr. Nick Labriola (43:03):
glad that you have that. It's really hard that
a lot of veterinarians are notafforded that my dream for
veterinary medicine is thateverybody somehow finds a way to
make every avenue of veterinarymedicine like that, where you
have enough time off. And youknow, where you can reset, and
you can be who you are outsideof work, and then be who you are
(43:26):
inside work, too. Because a lotof veterinarians are like
trapped in this cycle wherethey're a vet all the time, you
know, that they're never reallyoff work, like they're going
home. And they're consulting allnight and doing records all
night, and getting called backinto the hospital. And then
going back to the hospital againat seven in the morning. You
know what I mean? And it's soheartbreaking to see because I'm
(43:48):
like, all like, Well, okay, mostveterinarians are so extremely,
like compassionate andpassionate about the job and,
and it's just, that's just sucha quick way to, like beat that
out of somebody's burnout. Youknow what I mean, by overworking
someone and, you know, I just, Ijust really hope we figure it
out. I really want to, like,really start being more loud
(44:10):
about that. And yeah, because Ijust we need to figure it out.
Charlotte Bayne (44:15):
That's part of, you know, the vision for this
podcast is to, you know, createawareness around all things
related to, you know, dogs,specifically. Someday cats,
maybe dogs, and part of that is,you know, part of that is, you
know, the people that care forthem, as I've mentioned, and
when we, the more we talk aboutthose kinds of things, the more
(44:38):
people Yeah,
Dr. Nick Labriola (44:38):
you know, that's how it starts. Right?
It's just having that opendialogue. Yeah. Yeah. No,
Charlotte Bayne (44:46):
thank you for that. I wanted to circle back
and talk about how you donavigate the emotions of the
clients. You know,
Dr. Nick Labriola (44:55):
for me, it is this is another thing that's
very different, like literallyEvery family is totally
different. Um, you know, somepeople have been through before,
and it's very clear that it'stime, and they're just so at
peace with it, and they'vealready had their reaction. And,
you know, by the time I getthere, like, they're so ready,
(45:16):
and they're just like, you know,go ahead, and, you know, I do
what I need to do, and it wasjust like, thank you so much.
And that's it. You know, becausethey just, they already went
through it, they went throughit, and before I even got there,
and then by the time I gotthere, they were they were good,
which is that that happens alot. And you know, some people,
(45:37):
I would say, actually, mostpeople, they, as far as
supporting people and theiremotions and guiding people
through their emotions duringthese times, a lot of people
just need you to reassure themthat they are doing the best
thing. Right? That goes such along way. And just when people
see how common okay, you are asthe bed, they take that on.
(46:03):
Because I mean, the procedure isvery serious, this is a very
serious procedure that not justanyone is doing, you know,
something, you really have toknow what you're doing to make
it go okay. And, you know, Ithink a lot of people know that
if anything goes wrong, and it'sgoing to be very clear. So they
look to you for that, for thatreassurance, and that confidence
(46:25):
that everything's going okay,
Charlotte Bayne (46:28):
that they've made the right choice, and that
you think that's right choiceand that you're on board with
it. And that you they trust you.
Exactly, exactly. And then ontop of with the emotions.
Unknown (46:38):
Exactly. And then on top of all that I'm doing the
procedure correctly, I'm keepingthe pet comfortable on, you
know, their pets not sufferingall that. Yeah. So you know,
it's just a matter of being thatfigure for them to just, you
know, be that reassuring figure.
Charlotte Bayne (46:57):
Can we talk about? Can we get a little
technical here and talk aboutwhat exactly the procedure is?
Absolutely. Like, just so peoplecan kind of know, like, what do
you and when we not, you know, Iknow, it's not it's not as
scary? My think, as one mightthink, but like, what is the
medicine and all that jazz?
Unknown (47:20):
Yeah, so, um, we can definitely go over that because
it actually is verystraightforward. It's nothing
too complicated. Again, like Iwas saying earlier, it's very
serious, of course, but youknow, it's nothing. It's nothing
complicated. All we do is justreally strong instead of
dividend paying medicationsfirst. And that shot is just
like any other shot. It's justlike vaccines, medicines, stuff
(47:43):
like that. You know, every nowand again, there's an animal
that will react to that a littlebit because they don't like the
pinch from the needle, but it'snothing that hurts. Yeah, you
know, it's just just, again, anyother shot. As far as the
medications for that, I can'treally speak on that, because
everyone does it differently. SoI what I do I use the only human
(48:03):
drug I use as ketamine. So I useketamine and then butorphanol,
which is an opioid, so likemorphine, and then a xylazine,
which are veterinary sedatives.
So, yeah, they get a mix of allthat stuff. Yeah. So they feel
amazing. They're like cloudnine.
Charlotte Bayne (48:22):
They're just relaxed. And they're, you know,
cloud nine. Yeah.
Dr. Nick Labriola (48:27):
Yeah. And they can hear you they're aware
they can hear you. See you iftheir eyes are open. They're
just like, they're just stillfeeling amazing. No anxiety, you
know, not feeling anythingphysically physical feeling is
gone. They're just like floatingthere with you in their home. So
they feel great.
Charlotte Bayne (48:44):
Right? Like, an anesthesia. Right? So
Dr. Nick Labriola (48:47):
yeah, yeah, yeah, basically. Yeah, exactly.
Actually.
Charlotte Bayne (48:51):
Yeah. I was just thinking the only time I've
ever been to anesthesia, that'swhat it seemed like, yeah.
Dr. Nick Labriola (48:56):
Yeah, that's, that's what they do like, and
usually just after just thatpeople already start feeling
better. Because they see like,that stark difference from when
their pet was suffering to beingin that state. And they're like,
Okay, this is what this is whatshe needed. She needed this.
Once that fully takes effect,then we can do all like the cute
stuff we can make like keepsakesand everything, like play paw
(49:18):
print and for equipping.
Charlotte Bayne (49:21):
You do do all that stuff. You do
Dr. Nick Labriola (49:23):
that? Yeah.
Yeah, it's fun. I liked I liked
Unknown (49:28):
, then we can do all that. And I've done a couple of
doing all that.
nose prints. Yeah. And that's,yeah, that's super fun. I'm not
that good at them. But every nowand then I got like a really
good one. And I'm like, Oh, yes,
Charlotte Bayne (49:43):
I would. Yeah.
I did that for chance. Yeah,yeah.
Dr. Nick Labriola (49:46):
Yeah, you can definitely ask for that. That's
definitely something you can youcan ask for. Yeah, so just a
second. So with this addition,the only truly scary thing that
can happen under sedation, is itis possible for your pet to
happen. seizure under thiscondition. That's just a side
effect that happens. Sometimesit is very rare, exceedingly
rare. And usually, if ithappens, it means they already
(50:11):
had something, some kind ofcondition that was predisposing
them to seizures, whetherthey've had a seizure yet or
not. But that being said, it'svery easily controlled with an
anti seizure medication. So themajority of hospice beds will
have that on hands and can justget get that under control real
quick. So even if that happens,that's not something and it's
(50:33):
not something they're aware of.
They don't know that'shappening.
Charlotte Bayne (50:35):
Okay. Got it.
That makes it better. Yeah.
Dr. Nick Labriola (50:39):
Exactly. It's just like, it's just visually
unappealing to us. It's veryscary. Yeah, exactly. Exactly.
But it's, you know, something wecan get under control very
easily and very quickly. Yeah.
So then, once, once they'reready for the final medication,
the final medication is control.
Barbasol. Okay. And a lot ofpeople think it stops the heart.
(51:01):
It does not stop the heartdirectly. That's all it does is
it shuts down the brain. Sothen, when the brain turns off,
everything else stops. Andthat's kind of what happens when
we sleep. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Tothem, they literally just feel
like they're drifting off tosleep. And it's super easy on
them. And that's it. That's,that's all it is. It's just it's
(51:24):
so so easy for them. And youknow, as as the body is
relaxing, as that medication istaking the Fed, sometimes
literally nothing happens.
Sometimes they they breathe alittle quickly, they went out
some like really did deepexhales, which is totally
normal. That's just thediaphragm relaxing, very normal.
Sometimes there's like littleminor movements, they might
(51:48):
stretch their legs a little bitthere, they might stretch to
their neck a tiny bit. They mayTwitch a tiny bit. Again, all
super normal. That's just themuscles relaxing. Yeah, that's
that's really all they're allthere is it's it's very easy.
It's way less scary than a lotof people are anticipating
doesn't
Charlotte Bayne (52:07):
sound very traumatic. I mean, for the dog,
at least it doesn't sounddramatic. It sounds very
peaceful. Right?
Dr. Nick Labriola (52:13):
Definitely.
And, you know, I would say Imean, the amount of people that
when it's their first timeseeing it, and they're like, oh,
wow, that was like nothing. Andyeah, that's exactly it's not,
it's nothing too crazy. And youknow, that, that, that creates a
lot of calmness for the peopleas well. And that really helps
with emotions as well, when theydo see just how okay, it was.
(52:34):
Yeah, so that's that's kind ofwhat the actual procedure looks
like.
Charlotte Bayne (52:43):
Well, one more question for you. And that is,
yeah. Who should be there duringthis should? And should other
family pets be there? BecauseI've heard mixed things. Should
your other dog be there? Or yourcat if you have one? Or you
know, yes,
Unknown (53:01):
definitely. All the other pets should be there.
Okay. They understand they knowwhat that is. Death is not
stigmatized for them. It's notscary to them. You know, it's
not sad to them. To them. It'swhat happens now normal? Yeah,
yeah, it's Yeah. And they knowthat the patient has saved, you
know, they know, I mean, thinkabout it, if we were to see a
(53:23):
person in end stage kidneyfailure, or, you know,
congestive heart failure orsomething, we would know, we
would know that they're verysick. And it's the same with
animals, you know, they knowthey can tell, and they expect
this to happen, right? You know,they understand, Oh, this one's
super sick. This one's gonna.
They that's, that's nature.
(53:43):
That's, that's just logic tothem. So, you know, sometimes
they sniff sometimes they cuddlea little bit, but sometimes they
they're just in the room, andthey don't really even do
anything, because they're justlike, oh, yeah, I know. You
know, and I think a lot ofpeople will say, Oh, well, my
(54:06):
other dog was like, superdepressed and super anxious
afterward. And most of the time,that's because you left with
your other dog and didn't comeback with it. And then the dog
at home is just like, where's myfriend? Yeah, you know, like,
what happened? And it'sconfusing, you know, they don't
understand. But when they seethe transition, they know, they
(54:28):
understand that they're notgoing to see that animal. Yeah,
and honestly, the best thing foryou other pets is to just do all
the same things with them, keepthem feed them at the same
times, walk them at the sametime. sit on the couch with them
at the same time. You're alwaysyou. You know, you're just like
you Yeah, just add regular tothem. And you know, of course,
(54:52):
you're gonna be sad andeverything and that's fine. You
know, you can be sad in front ofthem. That's okay. But when when
we Put our emotions on them. Andwe're like, overly loving toward
them and like, snuggling themsuper hard and like screaming in
their face and everything.
That's yeah, that's when they'relike, Oh my God, what's wrong?
(55:13):
Like what? Like, why is Mom? Ohmy god and yeah, so, you know
that's not advisable. Right?
Yeah, and other animals aregreat. It's not scary. Yeah, you
know, this is not somethingthat's scary.
Charlotte Bayne (55:28):
But if you had just like an overly excited
puppy or, or you know, a dogthat's just high energy, I would
assume you just, you just maybemanage it by maybe putting them
somewhere where they can watchor putting them in another room
and then letting them come in.
Make sure and sniff make surethey know what's going on.
(55:49):
Right. Yes, exactly. Yeah. Whenyou're when it's all said and
done. Exactly.
Unknown (55:55):
Yeah. And thats the thing. They only need to be
there for the end. They don'thave to be there for the whole
procedure just as long as theycan see your animal afterward.
That's what's important.
Charlotte Bayne (56:03):
Got it? Yeah.
Right. Right. Thank you so much.
Dr. Nick, do you have anythingelse that you want to add? I
think we covered so much.
Dr. Nick Labriola (56:12):
Yeah, no, I think we did cover just about
everything. Yeah, I put outvideos on social media every now
and then. Not always related tohospice. But every now and then
I have like a little pointersabout hospice. So sometimes
that's helpful to people. Onething that I guess I can leave
everybody with, about debt thatwe all really need to consider
(56:35):
that that is something that isnatural, and it's supposed to
happen and and it's okay. And wecan we as humans, we have the
ability to make it a littleeasier than it than it might
have been. And, you know, as asas dark as it all can be. I
think that's a very beautifulpart of what we're able to do.
Charlotte Bayne (57:01):
Thank you so much for listening to this
episode of The Baro podcast. Ifyou want to contact lap of love
veterinary hospice, you canreach them at lap of love.com.
And if you want to follow Dr.
Nick on Instagram, you canfollow him at real doctor neck.
And I put both of those thingsin the show notes so no need to
worry. And as always, if youenjoy listening to the brew
(57:21):
podcast, please don't forget torate us and follow us wherever
you get your podcasts. You canalso follow us on Instagram at
Baruch pet. If you have aquestion for me or a story of
canine companionship that youwant to share on The Baroo. You
can email me at Charlotte atthebaroo.com All right, you guys
let's chat next week.
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