Navigating the holiday season after losing a beloved pet can be emotionally complicated, but you're not alone in this journey. Dr. Lindsey Wendt DVM, joins me co-hosting a chat with Mindy Meiering, LCSW, a licensed therapist, certified life coach and the author/creator of the Rainbow Bridge Pet Loss Deck, a healing tool that supports people after the heartbreaking loss of a pet. She works with people who are navigating various types of loss and life transitions, offering them tools to cultivate resilience and healing.
Mindy shares her insights on the power of gratitude and the process of creating her grief deck. Our conversation is infused with actionable strategies for coping with grief during the holiday season, from incorporating pets into our holiday traditions to communicating our needs to loved ones. By the end, we hope you'll find comfort in the realization that while our pets' physical presence may fade, their spirit remains forever in our hearts.
Useful Links:
Dr. Lindsey Wendt https://www.crystallotusvet.com/
Instagram https://www.instagram.com/crystallotusvet/
Mindy Meiering https://rainbowbridgedeck.com/
Instagram @mindymeiring
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Speaker 1 (00:01):
Dogs make the best companions for humans.
This podcast aims to help makehumans better companions for
their dogs.
Welcome to the Baroo Podcast, amodern lifestyle podcast for
dogs and their people.
I'm your host, charlotte Bain.
I've been caring for otherpeople's dogs for more than 15
(00:21):
years and, while I've learned alot in my career, I definitely
don't know at all, so I'vecollected an ever-evolving
roster of amazing dog videos.
Dogs make the best companionsfor humans.
This podcast aims to help makehumans better companions for
their dogs.
Thank you so much for joiningme for this episode of the Baroo
(00:43):
Podcast.
Today we are doing something alittle different.
Dr Lindsay Wendt is joining meas my special guest co-host and
we are chatting with MindyMayearing, a licensed therapist,
certified life coach and theauthor and creator of the
Rainbow Bridge PetLoss Deck,which is a healing tool that
helps support people after theheartbreaking loss of a pet.
(01:04):
And as we head into theholidays, we thought it was
important to continue tonormalize these conversations
around pet loss.
The holidays can be reallytriggering for those who have
experienced a loss and, drLindsay, I can even share a
story with you and to those thatare listening yesterday was
Thanksgiving and I don't know.
(01:25):
I know you know, dr Lindsay,but I don't know if I've talked
about it on the podcast.
Recently in August I lost mygolden retriever client who I
had been caring for since he wasseven months old.
He was a little over 15 when hepassed and I'm really close
with his family and I've knownthem for ever and they do have
another dog, so I'm there a lot.
(01:47):
But yesterday I went over forThanksgiving and I walked in and
the whole family was there andI immediately felt this really
deep sense of sadness and lossover Bosco, the golden retriever
.
All the holidays that we hadwith him begging for food and he
would be breathing heavily atthe dinner table, they all kind
(02:09):
of like flashed before me and Ifelt this really deep sadness
and I love that dog dearly, asif he was my own dog.
I know that he's not my own dogand it just really made me
think about the time that I haveleft with Chance and cherish
those moments even more than Ido already.
And I found myself taking extraphotos of Chance during
(02:32):
Thanksgiving dinner.
It was probably annoyingeverybody at the table but I
could stop taking photos of him.
So it kind of just reallyspeaks to those moments when
grief can really just hit whenyou aren't expecting it right.
Speaker 2 (02:48):
Thank you so much for your vulnerability and sharing
your experience, because I knowI can empathize so much with
your story.
Both as a dog mom andprofessionally as a veterinarian
, I offer many different typesof support to pets and their
families, but a cornerstone andtrue labor of love of my
practice for the last 10 yearshas been aiding in at-home
end-of-life transitions, whichmany people often refer to as
(03:11):
euthanasia.
I know that for many of us, it'sone of the most challenging
moments that we have to face inour adult lives, but
unfortunately it's also asituation that most of us, as
pet parents, will have toencounter at some point.
So I really want to offer toolsto support those that are
facing these difficult choices,whether it's now or in the
(03:32):
future, and especially duringthis time of year.
This topic is also so importantfor anyone that's remembering
their beloved animal companionswho are no longer with us.
There are so many aspects ofthe holidays whether it's
traditions or maybe even stressabout being around family or
certain things that really helpsto just illustrate and
(03:54):
highlight how important they areto us as a support system and a
source of unconditional love.
So I am really honored to behere to help support everyone
and, like you said, normalizethese conversations because
they're important.
Speaker 1 (04:08):
It's so true I was not expecting to carry those
feelings through Thanksgiving,through dinner and even into
today.
I'm still thinking about.
I'm still thinking about them.
Well, thank you for joining meand let's just jump into the
chat.
Sounds good.
Well, thanks you guys forjumping on.
(04:31):
And Lindsay, this is veryexciting.
You are my.
This is the first time we'reco-hosting a podcast episode
together, so I am thrilled tohave you on as my co-host.
I think you can bring so muchvalue to these conversations, so
thank you so much for doingthis.
I am I'm happy to have both ofyou on.
I think, as we head into theholidays it's we can never talk
(04:51):
about pet loss too much.
We can never normalizeconversations around grief and
around the loss of a beloved pettoo much.
So I think it's reallyimportant that we're doing this
now, that probably the hardestpart of being a pet parent right
is the loss of your beloved pet.
So so first, dr Lindsay, thankyou so much for joining.
(05:14):
I think you, as I saidmentioned, you bring a lot of
value to these conversations.
Do you want, for those whoyou've been on the podcast
before?
We talked about all the greatways that we can support, all
the great ways that youholistically support our pets
and you um, that's somethingthat we just touched on briefly
(05:34):
is that you do offer end of lifecare for pets, so you have a
firsthand experience workingwith families during that
difficult time.
So would you like to just likereintroduce yourself a little
bit to the people that arelistening and talk a little?
(05:54):
bit I would love to Okay, greatyeah.
Speaker 2 (05:58):
So my name is Dr Lindsay Wendt.
I am a practitioner in the LosAngeles, southern California
area and, as I've evolvedthrough my career, actually the
one thing that I've started fromthe beginning and maintained
with a deep passion and justtrue resonance with is end of
life transitioning.
So, as my practice has evolvedfrom conventional to integrative
(06:20):
, functional, holistic, whateverterm you want to give it, end
of life care has really been bymy side and has also evolved as
I've obtained new tools.
So, as Charlotte mentioned,that is still something I, you
know, I offer to families on aweekly basis.
So every week I help, at leastyou know, a handful of families,
(06:42):
but you know certain times ofthe year, like the holidays,
unfortunately, we end up havingto make some of those decisions
far more often than we'd like to.
So I really do just try to beavailable.
And I think one thing and thereason I'm so excited to have
Mindy on here is one thing I'vereally come to realize is how
important it is it is for us tonot only support our pets but to
support the human counterpartsin the family.
(07:03):
And I think, as a veterinarian,that's not something that I was
taught or prepared really howto do properly.
So it's something that I'mlucky that, intuitively, I've
been able to pick up some ofthose skills, but it's always
something that's evolving.
I think it's always somethingthat, as a profession, we need
to focus on, because it's fartoo often that we focus on it as
a procedure and not as what ittruly is, which is truly.
(07:25):
It's a transition for theentire family.
Speaker 1 (07:28):
Right During the holidays, it seems like there
are tougher decisions that haveto be made when it comes to end
of life care.
Do you see that, dr Linty, thatit's more.
To put it bluntly, people haveto make that choice during the
holiday season more often thanduring the rest of the year.
(07:50):
Do you see that as somethingthat's common?
Speaker 2 (07:55):
I do, and what's actually very interesting is, I
would say, that the need forthat service is pretty constant
throughout the year.
But what's actually veryinteresting is during the
holidays, I see a decrease,actually initially Interesting,
I would say, around Octoberthere's less families seeking
out assistance, okay, and thensuddenly, around mid-November to
(08:17):
the end of December, there's anincrease.
And I think, from my perspective, what's happening is, as the
holidays come near, I thinkthere's a lot of families that
are really really trying to doeverything they can to keep
their pets just for one moreThanksgiving, one more holiday
celebration, and then they getinto a position where they no
longer have that choice, andthen what I've found is it
(08:39):
becomes a lot more rushed duringthe holidays, which breaks my
heart, because they sometimesdon't have the opportunity to
have someone come into theirhome, and that's probably
something I should havespecified.
The transitions that Ifacilitate are all in home, so I
allow our you know, our belovedcompanions to be where they're
comfortable, surrounded byfamily, having the environment
(08:59):
controlled, and you know that issuch a gift, and I feel like
our job as their guardians andas their companions is to make
every single step of their lifeas easy as possible and that end
transition is sometimes, youknow, it's the best.
It's the best gift that we cangive them when they're in a
position where we don't see thembeing able to improve and
(09:20):
recover from whatever you knowillness is is affecting them.
But you are right, there isdefinitely an increased demand
and it often becomes urgent,which is hard.
So I really encourage people totry to take a step back, focus
on quality of life assessmentand don't let that be a rushed
decision just simply because ofthe time of year, which I
understand.
That's very human, but I justdon't ever want people to not
(09:43):
have the opportunity to bepresent at all, because I've
seen that happen to people willleave for the holidays and then
they end up not being able tomake it back to say goodbye
which is heartbreaking.
Speaker 1 (09:54):
Absolutely.
One of the things that youreally provide is rituals around
end of life, which I find sobeautiful because I think we
often we do that, for usually,you know, many cultures
obviously have their own ritualsaround death and and, but it's
not something that's common.
(10:15):
I don't think, and and I really, I really think that that's an
important part of allowingpeople to agree even to heal,
right, Do you want?
To do you want to speak alittle bit on that?
Speaker 2 (10:32):
I'd love to, and I think for that.
You know, one of the beautifulthings about being a
veterinarian is what my clientshave taught me.
Speaker 1 (10:38):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (10:39):
And, I think, if anything, going through a more
conventional viewpoint of end oflife, transitioning, because
back then I did call iteuthanasia, which I know is the
term for it, but I just feellike, sentimentally, it doesn't
feel right for me to term it inthat way on a regular basis
anymore.
But I witnessed familiescreating beautiful ceremonies,
whether they were religious,spiritual, you know something
(10:59):
personal and that reallyinspired me to want to offer
that to people, as I, you know,acquired more tools in my
toolbox, so I'm a soundtherapist.
I'm a reiki practitioner.
You know I love and have a verystrong relationship with
crystals and I've seen theresponse that animals have to
crystals essential oils,acupuncture.
So there are so many options tocreate a peaceful environment,
(11:23):
not only for our pets but alsofor us, because I think one
thing that people fail torealize and I know Mindy will
speak to this is the energeticconnection we have with our
animals is so strong and I havewitnessed on so many occasions.
You know, obviously we're goingthrough our own grief and our
own emotions, but we have toserve as a grounding space for
(11:45):
our pets to be able to have asmooth transition.
And it's not, you know, notlistening to your feelings or,
you know, not being able toprocess them.
It's just having them have asmooth transition, be the focus
and holding that space, whetherthat's breathwork something I
have not been trained in, butI've kind of picked up along the
way to help some of my clientsthat were really struggling as
(12:05):
we went through it.
So there's so many beautifulways, you know, having people
come and speak and give foodofferings, share a story there's
just so many ways to honor them.
Speaker 1 (12:16):
I love that.
Mindy, do you find hi?
Do you want to introduceyourself a little bit and tell
us a little bit about what youdo and how you support pet?
Speaker 3 (12:28):
parents going through this Absolutely.
My name is Mindy Meiring and bytraining I'm a licensed
therapist and for the last 15years or so I've been doing my
work has been more in the realmof coaching and teaching,
mindfulness, writing, and I also, after the loss the first dog
(12:52):
that I lost in 2017, I startedwriting a book about pet loss
and became really interested in.
I had supported lots of humansin their grief as they went
through significant losses inlife transitions, but after
experiencing that and how deepthe grief was, I really wanted
(13:14):
to support other pet parents whowere experiencing that kind of
grief and loss, and so I started.
I started writing a book, andthe book evolved into a project
that actually, I think is moresuited to to people who are
(13:39):
going through the grievingprocess, because when we're
grieving, our tensions ban isoften so limited right, we're so
grief can be so destabilizing,and so I took a lot of what I'd
written and I put it into a deckcalled the Rainbow Bridge Pet
Loss Deck, and it's 52 ways toheal the heartache of losing a
(14:06):
beloved pet is what it's called.
But then we experienced the lossof our other dog, ellie, two
years later, and she was myfirst dog it was.
It was a really, as I thinkprobably so many of us who have
experienced that.
You know that first pet that wehad, right when we lost them.
(14:26):
It's a really, whether we hadthem for a short time or, like
Ellie, I had her for 15 years.
It's just so heartbreaking andpainful and so I picked up my
book, dusted it off and it andit turned into this day.
During that time I did sometraining and became certified as
(14:46):
a pet loss and grief specialistwith the Association of Pet
Loss and Breedment and really Ifeel like so much of my work now
and where my heart is is innormalizing and validating pet
grief in our culture and justoffering, you know, people who
are grieving the loss of a petways to work with their grief.
(15:10):
It's such a painful loss.
So many people say that.
You know, sometimes my clientswill come in and it's almost
like they they say it undertheir like they.
They're a bit embarrassed, youknow, but it was harder when I
lost my dog or my cat than whenI lost you know, and then
they'll name a human and I'llsay it's okay.
(15:31):
You know, I can't tell you howoften I hear that.
And just normalizing, becausethese, you know, our pets are,
they're members of our family,they're not just like family.
They are, you know, in myopinion.
So, yeah, that's that's kind ofwhere my work has really the
direction that my work has taken.
Speaker 1 (15:53):
Yeah, why?
Why do you think people carryshame or or a little bit of
embarrassment around the loss oftheir beloved pet around, or
sharing that loss with others?
They feel like they can't fully.
They feel like they can't fullyshare that loss with others, I
think, in a way that they can,you know, the loss of a human
(16:15):
family member or something likethat.
Well, there's.
Speaker 3 (16:19):
I think so many of us have probably experienced that
maybe person who's not an animallover, who hasn't had pets, who
said, well, it's just a dog,right, it's just a cat, get
another one.
And there is that some peopledo have that viewpoint, and so I
think that can be part of itand also, just in general, in
(16:43):
our culture we aren't greatabout doing grief.
Yeah, we tend to run through it, want to skip over it, want to
get over it, move on.
And so I often will say topeople this is a very deep loss
that you've experienced.
It's okay to take your time andto really let yourself grieve
(17:05):
this loss.
This animal companion was asignificant part of your life.
You had a really you know, youhad a special connection with
them, shared so much love withthem, shared so much life with
them.
It makes sense that we wouldgrieve their loss so deeply.
Speaker 2 (17:22):
Yeah, mindy, I have a question for you too.
One thing I've always wonderedis is there something to?
Not that our pets are ourchildren, but for many of us, we
provide such a level of care tothem, almost beyond what we
even extend to ourselves in somesituations.
Is there something I guess evenpsychologically along with that
(17:44):
, just because I hear that allthe time as well?
This was harder for me thanlosing my dad or my mom, or like
a very large presence in theirlife, and people do feel
embarrassed and I say the samething.
I can't tell you how many timesI hear that, and usually what I
present to them is these arebeings that we share daily
experiences with and you'reproviding care for them.
(18:05):
So, being a caregiver, doesthat at all play into, perhaps,
why it's so much more difficultto have that loss versus, maybe,
a family member?
That, of course, we love them,but it's just a different type
of relationship.
Speaker 3 (18:17):
Yeah, yeah, and I think, yes, I think that's
absolutely part of it.
And also, if you, I think thatwe all probably will be able to
relate to this, like the lovethat we share with our pets is
such a pure, uncomplicated love.
They really don't expect a lotfrom us.
In fact, you know, I can thinkabout times when I've like I'll
(18:41):
trip over my dog, obviouslyaccidentally, or you do
something, and the next thing Iknow they're just sitting there
wagging their tail at me.
You know, like I love you somuch.
I mean they're so forgiving andjust that love is so
uncomplicated, I think, comparedto you know our human
(19:04):
relationships, which are, Ithink, you know, for so many of
us we have, we have, like a lotof us have very you know, a lot
of people in our lives that welove, but human relationships
can just be more complicated, alittle bit more complex.
Speaker 1 (19:21):
They're there with us through our hardest times and
our best times, and they aresupportive and unconditionally
loving us along the way.
I think, this is probably oneof the without judgment With
some of our dogs may judge us alittle bit, but for the most
part without judgment.
Speaker 3 (19:42):
I think I have a few dogs.
I was just thinking there'syeah, we don't you know.
So often it's like they're notjudging us, they don't really
care about how much money wemake or you know all the things
sometimes that humans tend toget caught up in right and
success.
It's like they don't you know,they don't really care, they
just like to snuggle and theywant their walk and their treats
(20:05):
and they like to be with us.
Speaker 2 (20:07):
Yeah, Right, yeah, so for those of us that you know
were approaching the holidays, Ithink there's two different
perspectives.
One is there's a lot of us thataround this time, it brings up
a lot of kind of a heavyreminder of those that we've
lost, and I think that's evenmore so true for pets.
(20:28):
I know one trend that I'venoticed that I think is so
beautiful is including pets anddia de las muertos.
So I've seen a lot of peoplehonoring those that have been
lost and I mean, I've seen thesealters where it's humans and
animals equally.
So you know, because that'salmost the start of this season,
what are some tools that peoplecan use if they find themselves
(20:51):
feeling very heavy and you know, having you know, especially
for people that suffer frommental health issues, especially
like how, what are somemanagement tools that they can
use to prepare themselves forthe heaviness of the holidays?
Speaker 3 (21:06):
I love that question.
First of all, I want to justcomment on something I someone
recently sent me a link to thisbeautiful image and post, and I
guess in Mexico, before the Diade las Muertos, there is a
there's a day of the dead foranimals, specifically for
(21:28):
animals, so I'm going to do analtar for our the dogs that we
saw here on that day.
Yeah, I'll see if I can findthat and share that with you,
but I think it's so true, theholidays can be such a heavy
time of year when we experiencedthe loss of the pet or really
any type of significant loss,and so one thing is, I think the
(21:53):
first thing that I often say topeople is you know, remember
that your grief matters, and oneof the cards in my deck is
honor your grief and justremembering that it's okay to
take care of yourself, to giveyourself what you need, to let
those tears flow when and ifthey come, and certainly in
(22:17):
those first weeks and monthsafter the loss the tears can be
frequent.
Allowing those, I think,planning in time for self-care,
and sometimes that is likereally taking out your calendar
and saying I am gonna schedulelike an hour or I'm gonna set
(22:41):
aside this time to whatever itis for you that feels nourishing
.
I think self-care is so, youknow, looks different for each
of us.
I know for me, after I had lostboth of our the loss of both of
our dogs being in nature wasparticularly healing for me and
so, as much as I could, I wouldget outside and take long walks.
(23:08):
I think you know we're havingthis conversation as
Thanksgiving week here in the USbegins and gratitude can be
such a huge support as we'regrieving and I think sometimes
we it can.
(23:29):
You know, as we're grieving,there's that heaviness and that
tendency to really get caught upsometimes in our grief.
And I like to kind of think oflike two outstretched hands when
I'm thinking about grief andgratitude, that we can hold our
grief over here, we don't haveto push it down, but we can also
(23:49):
hold gratitude in our otherhand and pay attention to things
that are going well in ourlives.
Or sometimes what I'll say topeople is maybe notice what kind
of support is showing up foryou, what kind of support?
Maybe a friend that's reachingout for you know, maybe you have
(24:13):
a pet loss support group thatyou've been going to, or just
someone that cares that, youknow, is texting you to check in
and see how you're doing.
Noticing that, but noticing andpaying attention.
It's really a mindfulnesspractice, like trying to pay
attention to what's going welland you know what are things in
(24:33):
my life that I feel grateful for.
That can also be a support.
And then another thing that Ithink can be so helpful is to
think about how you can includeyour pet that you've lost into
either existing holidaytraditions and rituals, maybe
(24:58):
create new ones.
Speaker 1 (25:00):
Yeah, I love that.
Speaker 3 (25:04):
Yeah, it could be, maybe creating an ornament with
their you know their photographand name that you hang each year
, or maybe you light a candleeach night during the holiday
season in their memory.
There are different ways youcould create your whatever.
I always say like whateverfeels meaningful to you and you
(25:25):
know, do that and think abouthow you might incorporate that
into your holiday this year.
Speaker 1 (25:31):
Do you have any suggestions on how or any tools?
When we're, when we head intothe holidays, we're often faced
with lots of family members.
We're often faced with, youknow, a lot of social times and
we may be feeling overwhelmed.
We may be feeling that deepgrief during those times.
How do we, how can we functionduring those family holiday
(25:56):
times and how can we ask ourfriends to help us get through
those times together?
Does that make sense?
Speaker 3 (26:06):
It makes perfect sense, and that's a great
question.
I think one of the things youcan do is to plan ahead, to
think about what are thecommitments that I have or might
have, who will be there and doI have the bandwidth, Do I
really have the bandwidth andthe energy to do that this year?
(26:30):
There might be gatherings orthings that you say no to, and I
always, kind of like I just,you know, hand people a
metaphorical permission slip andsay you have permission to say
no.
It's okay, you know, if youreally feel like it's gonna be
(26:50):
too overwhelming or you're notup for it, it's okay to say no
to some things.
And the other thing that Ithink people can do is, you know
, have conversations ahead oftime with loved ones, with their
family, with friends, and say Iam really struggling right now.
(27:11):
I'm really, you know, I've justlost my pet, I'm in the throes
of grief and I'm really having ahard time.
I don't know how I'm gonna feelwhen this dinner rolls around
or this event, and I'd like tocome, but I just wanna let you
(27:32):
know that I may need to bow outif I'm not feeling well that day
.
So can giving yourselfpermission to change, to say no,
to change your mind.
And I think communicating withfriends and family can be really
helpful, letting them know justkind of where you're at and
(27:52):
what you need, and that kind ofsegues into what you're asking
about.
How do we support people who'velost a pet?
And you know, I think one thingwe can do is just acknowledge
the loss, Say I am, you know, Ican't imagine what you're going
through right now.
Right, Because we really, evenif we've lost a pet, we haven't
(28:16):
been through the loss thatthey're experiencing, we weren't
on that journey with the petthey've lost.
And we can just say I reallycan't imagine what you're going
through right now.
Is there anything I can do tosupport you?
You know, letting them know Iam here, if you really mean that
, right, so it's reallyimportant, like if we offer to
(28:40):
them be able to follow through.
And you might even say like I'mavailable if you wanna text or
if you wanna call.
Or you might say, you mighteven think about specific things
that, given what you know aboutthat person, they might that
might be helpful for them.
(29:01):
You might say, maybe if theyhave other pets, you might say
would it be helpful if I cameand walked, you know, your other
dogs this week just to give youa break, or would you like me
to bring you a meal?
You know, and offer things.
I think just acknowledging youknow, saying it makes sense, it
(29:25):
really makes sense, Like if theygoing back to the earlier in
our conversation, you know whensome people say, oh, it was just
a dog, but it wasn't, and justsaying you know, hey, it makes
sense that you're grieving sodeeply, it really makes sense
that you're struggling, Like youhad such a you know, you had
(29:45):
such a strong connection withand you can name their pet.
It just makes sense.
So, and saying the pet's name,if you knew their pet, I think
it can also be really lovely tojust to say, wow, you know, I
really cared for or loved youknow I'm just gonna use my dog's
(30:10):
name that I lost Ellie.
You could say I really, Ireally loved and cared for Ellie
too, and you know I rememberthat one time when she and
sharing stories about them, thatwas so meaningful like to my
husband and I when people sentus Um notes after we'd lost our
dogs and they shared theirmemories of them that that can
(30:32):
be really meaningful also.
Speaker 1 (30:34):
Yeah, I love that I think.
Speaker 2 (30:37):
One other thing that's come up for me in my work
too that kind of echoes whatyou're saying, mindy, is you
never really understand therelationship that people have
with their pets.
And when I'm in a situation andfor me most of these families
that I'm assisting this is thefirst time I've met them, so I'm
walking in.
They don't know me, but theamount that people will open up
(30:58):
and share is so beautiful andtouching.
I've had people share with methat this happened a few months
ago.
This young woman she wasprobably in her early 30s the
dog that I was helpingtransition had, literally she
had tried to commit suicide andthis dog had broken through a
window and gotten up Like shewas.
(31:19):
Like I would physically not behere if it were not for him.
People that have lost theirspouses or one of their children
and like that is the dog thatconnected or the cat that
connected them.
It's like their last piece ofthem.
It's like reliving the grief ofthat other loss all over again.
And so just knowing that comingin with like compassion and
(31:42):
understanding and maybe, if youcan't understand, even if you
don't view pets in maybe thesame way that the three of us
and a lot of other people Justknowing that the support that
they provide to their humans isimmeasurable.
It truly can be.
Speaker 1 (31:58):
I know, for I have not personally experienced the
loss of my own dog other thanwhen I was a child, and I think
this loss will be and that wasdevastating.
But I think this loss, when ithappens in 35 years he's 16
right now will be profound andI'm trying to prepare myself
(32:22):
because, yeah, as you weretalking, you know, I, for me, my
dog is my, I call him my soulguide.
I mean he came into my mind I'mgoing to get emotional talking
about he, came into my life andjust really changed it for the
better and he has really beenthere and then kind of my rock
and guided me and I've guidedhim and he's helped me build my
(32:43):
business.
I mean he's, he's, he's, youknow, he's taught me about dogs
and I've taught him to be, he'staught me to be, to feel
comfortable and safe around dogsand I've taught him to be
comfortable and safe aroundhumans.
I mean we just have thisincredible bond and and I don't
know if it makes sense toanybody else, but it makes sense
to me so and that's, I think,what people have to respect and
(33:05):
have to understand about, aboutpeople's connections with their
animals.
So definitely.
Speaker 2 (33:11):
And I think the other thing, Mindy, that I would love
for you to share too is youknow, I like Charlotte, my dog
is older and I'm constantlytrying to prepare myself as much
as I can.
So what are some things thatpeople can do, you know, as
their pets are entering into astate of terminal illness, or
(33:32):
even as they get older, like howcan we prepare ourselves?
Almost like a pre bereavementsort of support.
Speaker 1 (33:40):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (33:41):
I started asking myself that question to a couple
years before we both of ourdogs died older or senior.
We have two younger dogs now,but I think from an emotional
standpoint I don't know that wecan prepare ourselves and you
know it's at least from what Ihave found in just, you know,
(34:03):
conversations with other peopleit's really hard to know exactly
how you're going to meet thatmoment until you are there, and
then that grief take life of itsown.
But I think that when we knowour pets are, you know, have a
terminal illness, we know ourtime is limited with them.
(34:23):
I think one of the sweetestthings that we can do is just
offer them our genuine presenceand really spend as much quality
time as we can with them.
I remember when Ellie wasgetting older and she was a
really feisty condition as ourterrier make like feisty and as
(34:51):
she got three million stories Icould tell you about this dog.
I was at the vet with her allthe time.
She was always into scrapes andtrouble and but she was so much
fun she was, she was just likethe greatest dog and she slowed
down a lot.
She started to lose her hearingand I could tell she started to
(35:11):
get a touch of dementia andhave physical issues more and
more that were slowing her down,and so her quality of life was
still pretty good.
We kept good tabs on that.
But in the last few months ofher life, one of the things that
I would do because I'm theearly riser in our family and
she couldn't get up the stairsanymore to come upstairs I'd
(35:34):
sleep next to our bed, and so welet her sleep on a dog bed
downstairs so she could get inand out.
The dog door was on the firstfloor and so I would get up
early in the morning and comedownstairs and make coffee, and
then we had a little couch nextto our fireplace.
I would turn on the fireplaceand just kind of do my morning
(35:56):
quiet reading and meditationright there, and I would just
have she was lay in my lap ornext to me for that hour, and it
was really precious time that Iwill always carry with me.
So I think anything we can dolike that you know, maybe it's
taking your and maybe it'staking your dog on walks in
(36:19):
their favorite spots, if they'restill able to do that, or
you're sharing their favoritefoods but just spending that
quality time with them.
I think it's one of thegreatest gifts we can give them
and ourselves.
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (36:36):
And then I know one thing I hear a lot of people
expressing is guilt.
I should have done more.
I wish I would have knownsooner, and then actually, with
the example you were just giving, you know, for those that maybe
can't be as flexible with theirschedules or their life, right,
I guess, just acknowledging thefact that doing your best is
(36:59):
good enough.
That's one of the things Ishare a lot, but yeah is, are
there any other kind of words ofwisdom or anything you would
have for people in that positionthat maybe are really having
trouble?
You know, working through thestages of guilt, I feel like, or
stages of grief, excuse me, Ifeel like guilt and anger, or at
least some of the two that I'veseen people really have a hard
(37:19):
time moving through sometimes.
Speaker 3 (37:22):
Yeah, yeah, I think that guilt is probably the most
common emotion and even though Ifelt like we did, you know,
everything we could for our twodogs, I still felt guilt, you
know, like, oh, you know, I feltguilt that they had to suffer
at all, you know, at the end oftheir life, even though it was
(37:43):
fairly minimal.
And I think that we just wantto do, we don't want our pets to
suffer.
And so there's always to me itseems like people always
struggle with that question,since rarely do I don't often
hear of people saying that theirpets died in their sleep
(38:05):
usually the choice they have tomake, the choice to use the nice
, and there's that strugglingwith that, those questions of
did I do it too soon or did Iwait too long?
And I think normalizing thatfor people and saying guilt is
normal, and this is somethingthat almost you know that most
(38:26):
people struggle with and you didthe best that you could,
reminding people of that and, Ithink, reminding ourselves, like
I, you know, I had to remindmyself of that and really offer
myself a lot of compassion andsay, you know, sure, and
hindsight, you might have donethis differently or that, but in
(38:49):
the moment I think we are allshowing up and doing the best
that we can for our pets.
They give us so much and we'retrying to do the best we can to
care for them.
Remembering that, remindingourselves of that, offering
ourselves compassion, you know,around the choices that we've
(39:12):
made, can be really helpful,trying to suspend that judgment
as much as we can.
And one thing, like one of thecards in my deck is has a
picture of a dog on it.
It's called.
The title of it is what Wouldthey Say?
And it's really about tuning inand when you're having a
(39:36):
difficult moment, saying whatwould you know, what would you
if your pet could speak to you,like from you know, from beyond,
from from wherever they are,yeah, the spirit speaking to you
?
What would they say?
What would they say?
And that can often a lot oftimes when I ask people that you
(39:56):
know there are tears andthey'll say, oh my gosh, they'll
say my pet's telling me like tostop being so hard on myself or
that it's okay.
They know that, you know, theyknow, they know I love them and
they know that I was doing thebest I could.
So sometimes just like tuningin and or even asking yourself,
(40:18):
like when you're having adifficult moment, like if this
was my best friend.
What would I say to them?
Right, that can be reallyhelpful because we can be so
hard on ourselves and so justtrying to take a step back and
offer ourselves a littlecompassion and kindness can be
(40:40):
helpful in those moments whenwe're working with the guilt.
And, yeah, I think anger is socommon, also because we it's
like I think we're angry becausewe want our pets to live long,
like we want them to live longer.
You know, unfortunately and weknow this when we adopt them or
bring them into our lives thattheir lifespans are shorter.
(41:02):
But I think so often we getangry because we're frustrated
they didn't live as long as wewanted them to, or there's
different, there's so manydifferent reasons, but that can
be common.
And then also, maybe we couldbe angry.
If you know, I had a clientearlier this year who had to go
(41:24):
through a very difficultsituation and use behavioral
euthanasia.
Their dog was yeah, and therewas a lot of anger there to just
anger about around thesituation and that they had to
say goodbye you know too soon tothis animal that had also been,
(41:45):
you know, in many ways veryloving, but then also had
displayed some pretty aggressivebehavior towards young children
.
So I think anger can takedifferent forms and yeah, it's a
, it's a.
Speaker 1 (42:02):
I think that one's that one's much, yeah, and that
one's complicated because youfeel the guilt of not just your
pet being sick but having tomake a choice that you, you
somehow you've not done enoughbecause somehow you couldn't fix
the issue, even if you'vecalled in a trainer, even if
you've done behaviormodification, even if you've
done all these sorts of things.
So that one that one gets reallyreally tough, tough, tough
(42:25):
choice Earlier on you.
Just, you brought up embracing,you brought up gratitude, and I
wanted to talk a little bitmore about how we can embrace
gratitude in the grievingprocess.
And by that did you meet, doyou mean, you know, like being
grateful for the pet, that we,the time that we had with our
(42:45):
pet, or how do we embracegratitude when we're feeling so
overwhelming, such overwhelminggrief and probably a little bit
of sometimes, depending on thesituation, you know, just deep,
deep sadness and just I don'twant to say despair, but some
people, you know it might bereally really traumatic for.
So how do we find those momentsof gratitude in during that
time?
Speaker 3 (43:03):
Yeah, and they might just be like little glimmers of
gratitude.
Right, I get it.
I just had some of the otherdays that really having a hard
time feeling grateful right nowand, yeah, I don't, I don't
think you, you don't have toforce it, but right, at least,
for I'll share my experience andwhat I see often being helpful
(43:28):
to people.
And, yes, for me, in thebeginning of my grieving process
, it was helpful for me torecall everything I was grateful
for about the moments that Ihad shared with my pet,
everything that they brought tomy life, the journey that we had
shared together.
And so often I was talkingabout taking those walks, and
(43:48):
when I would take walks, I wouldreally like I call them my
gratitude.
You know walks and I wouldreally try and call to mind
those things that I feltgrateful for, just recalling
them, bringing that into myexperience as well as the
profound, you know, sadness thatthat was there.
(44:14):
Gratitude.
It could take the form of maybesharing your gratitude, right?
So maybe they're yourveterinarian or the pet hospice
who helped you with the end ofyour pet's life.
It might be writing a thank youletter to them, or I remember
being pleased and taking theminto our vet clinic with a
(44:36):
little note of thanks and thatwas really.
It was meaningful to me and ofcourse you know they appreciated
that and we're appreciating,you know, gratitude to other
people that cared for youranimal Maybe it was a groomer
pets, that are other people.
(44:56):
That could be one way ofbringing gratitude into the
grieving process and I willoften say, if it's hard for you
to say, like I'm, you know weoften talk about keeping a
gratitude journal oracknowledging what you feel
grateful for, and if that justfeels like oh, I just I can't
(45:19):
think of anything, you could usethe phrase I heard this
recently and I like this.
I have, so I have food in myrefrigerator, I have people in
my life who care, I have, youknow, I have a roof over my head
(45:45):
and a warm bed to sleep in,like I have, you know, what are
the things acknowledging andreally that's a way of
acknowledging the presence of,you know, kind of the gifts in
our lives that we often take forgranted.
But that's another way, yeah,and I just find that in in terms
of like the how it can behelpful.
(46:08):
It's that our minds are arewired to kind of stick more to
the negative Right from aneurobiological perspective,
like why is that?
Speaker 1 (46:22):
Yeah, that's a whole other podcast episode.
Why is that?
It's so tough to turn thataround sometimes.
Speaker 3 (46:31):
Well, and I first heard this, rick Hampton is a
neuropsychologist and he thishas always stayed with me.
He said our brains are liketeflon to the positive and
velcro to the negative, and wetend to, you know, yes, the
negative things stick more, andit's from an evolutionary
(46:52):
perspective, it's about survival.
But we don't need that anymore.
I'm not living in an age where,like where tigers are gonna eat
us but our minds still tend toglom onto the negative.
So, especially when we'regrieving and we're in that place
of, like you were saying,despair, deep heartache, it can
be helpful to kind of balance,help balance that out a bit with
(47:16):
a practice like gratitude thathelps us remember there are
things in our life that aregoing well also.
Speaker 2 (47:24):
I think one thing too that I've seen really touch
others and even those that areinvolving themselves in it, is,
if you maybe can't find a way tobe grateful in that moment,
provide some sort of activeservice to someone.
So one thing in my community iswhen one of us loses one of our
(47:44):
beloved pets, we will usuallydonate to a cause that either
has something to do with thatpet in particular or like a
breed, specific rescue or ashelter near them, or just some
way of giving back, or we'llphysically actually go do
something together, and I foundthat that's really, you know
it's always very emotional, butit's something that we can all
(48:06):
remember and just know that youknow there's a community of
people supporting you, or justif you're one person that's
going and spending time in ashelter where you know they're
so in need of assistance rightnow that I feel like if our pets
could have an input for what wewould be doing, it's spreading
that love elsewhere.
And that doesn't necessarilymean bringing a new, a new
little one, into your life rightaway, because that, I know, is
(48:28):
a very challenging considerationfor a lot of people, and I
always tell people you'll knowwhen you're ready, or the other
thing that I have found is Ifeel like a lot of times our
pets will send us the individualwhen we're ready for it.
Speaker 1 (48:44):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (48:44):
Yeah, I love that.
Yeah, so, mindy, the way that Imet you.
And then one thing that I wouldlove to talk about further is
the deck itself, because it issuch a beautiful offering, and
I'd love for you to talk alittle bit more about how people
can utilize it, because I thinkmost people, when they see it,
(49:05):
would think of it as being, youknow, something to use, perhaps
after the loss to help with thatpost-loss bereavement and grief
.
But are there other ways thatpeople could utilize that, the
tool that you're providing themand almost like in preparation
or just to help navigate?
Speaker 3 (49:27):
Yeah, Well, I think you know, when you mentioned
earlier the term anticipatorygrief, and that I think that the
minute we know our pets have aterminal illness or are near the
end of our life, we begin togrieve, and so that grief
doesn't begin when they die,it's going on beforehand.
(49:48):
So the deck can.
I think that the tools and thepractices and just a lot of the
reminders that are in the deckcan be helpful as you're
preparing for that time whenyour pet dies.
And you know, one thing thatI've heard a couple of people
(50:11):
say is that they started workingwith it a few months beforehand
and that then, when the timecame, they felt like it actually
had given them some tools thatwere really helpful to have in
that moment and in those weeksafter their pet's death when
they were going through thattime of a more cute grief.
(50:33):
So I think it can be helpfulpre loss and, of course, after
the loss of a pet.
In fact, I had, as I wascreating it, I made these
prototype decks, so I would takethe artwork and I would
literally like cut and paste themessages and put it on the back
(50:53):
and make these decks and sendthem to people so that they
could use that and then give mefeedback and so it was a win-win
right.
They got to use it and have thebenefit of using it, but then
they also would give me feedback.
And I have one woman who's usedit for almost three years and
(51:15):
says that she's still doing ithard.
Because she's still, eventhough she just adopted a new
dog recently.
She waited for quite some timebut she said I'm still grieving
the loss of my previous dog andit's really helpful.
It's part of my ritual to drawa card each day.
Speaker 2 (51:38):
Yeah, I love that.
I think it is going back tomindfulness too.
I love it Because so much ofwhat's in the deck, I mean I
feel like it can be appliedoutside of even the specific
purpose for which you created it.
Speaker 3 (51:54):
Yeah, I had one back say that they one of the things
that they do is in their weeklystaff meeting they draw a card
because they like to talk aboutself-care, and so they said, you
know, each week we take onecard and then we talk about that
in our staff meeting.
So it's really it's.
I love hearing about all thedifferent ways that it's being
(52:17):
used and people will say youknow, the messages in here can
apply to really any type of lossand many of them can.
There's a lot that are you know, that have, that are more
specific to pets, because that'sthe the intent of this.
You know this healing tool thatI created, but they're also
(52:41):
applicable to grief and loss ingeneral.
Yeah, so some people that aregrieving humans that they've
lost or going through other typeof losses find that it's
helpful in helping them on thosehealing journeys as well.
Speaker 1 (52:55):
For those that are listening, can we be a little
technical?
What so?
How do we use?
So it's, it's a, it's a deck ofcar, of the cars that you
created for grief and andbereavement, and do we pull one
daily?
To do we pull one daily, orjust as we feel inspired to do
so, to remind us of gratitude orwhat exactly?
Speaker 3 (53:19):
Well, my recommendation and there's a
little card in the deck thatthat offers guidance in terms of
how I, when people use it is tojust close your eyes and think
of the pet you've lost and drawa card each day and it resonates
.
That's great.
If it doesn't, you can put itback and pull another one.
(53:40):
Until you pull one that doesfeel appropriate for for
whatever you know, your, yourkind of the place that you're in
that day.
And so some people tell me thatthey sit down and they read all
of these cards when they get tothem and then they will just
(54:00):
pull out a card or two thatfeels like most helpful to them
that day or that week.
And yeah, it's so.
There's no right or wrong wayto use it.
Yeah, there's just no right orwrong way to use it.
Those are.
That was my recommendation, andthen I always say to people use
(54:21):
it in the way that serves youbest.
There's 52 different messages,and the reason I included so
many was because we all grievedifferently.
If I wanted to people, or tooffer people a variety of
different coping strategies,tools, practices, that that they
(54:43):
can use, and then there arealso different ways that you can
, ideas for honoring your pet'smemory, and and then reminders,
just reminders, kind of all thenations like that.
You know we all grieve in ourown timeline.
There's no right or wrong wayto grieve.
There's a message calledhonoring your grief.
(55:05):
We talked about the.
You know that at the verybeginning, just taking time,
allowing yourself the time thatyou need to grieve, yeah, and
kind of following up on that.
Speaker 2 (55:15):
I love the idea of honoring them after.
So a part of my practice is theend of life transitions, but I
think one thing that a lot ofpeople don't consider and that I
try to help guide as much as Ican, is after they're gone.
Besides, you know a lot of thethings we've talked about, what
are other ways that we can honorthem, Even physically?
(55:36):
So I know this is a littletechnical, but it's, of course,
something that we have toconsider.
To consider is with theirremains, what do we do, and
everyone has a very differentfeeling about that, but some of
the things I just wanted tomention that I've seen that are
absolutely beautiful is thereare cremation jewelry, there are
(55:58):
physical.
I've seen planters with asucculent and then the remains
go in part of it.
I mean it's going somewherethat was meaningful to you and
spreading some of the remainsand having some sort of small
ceremony.
There's just so many ways toreally kind of think outside the
box, and I will say Etsy is areally great resource when it
(56:18):
comes to jewelry or any sort ofphysical keepsake.
There are so many beautifulartisans on there that are doing
great things to honor bothhumans but also pets.
We can take advantage of thoseas well.
Speaker 3 (56:32):
Yeah, etsy's great place.
I love all those ideas.
One of the things I did I'llshare this, like, I think a
photo collage can be really cooltoo, that you and you can make
it yourself, or you could do it,like on a site like Snapfish or
an online site, but that can bereally sweet.
(56:55):
Yeah, doing something, though,right, it's such a.
It's a way to honor theirmemory, and then it's also a way
it's something that I think inour culture we have so many
rituals in different ceremoniesthat to honor the loss of a
(57:15):
human loved one, but not so manyof her pets.
So we get to create.
Yeah, we get to create our own,be creative.
I love that, and, lindsay, youprobably get to hear so many
different ideas from people.
Speaker 2 (57:28):
Yeah, I really do, and some of the ceremonies I've
watched, I mean, arebreathtaking, like brush flowers
, I mean, people playing soundbowls, gongs, chanting, sharing,
you know, for those that arereligious or spiritual sharing
passages, and it's really it'sbeen a very privileged
(57:51):
experience to be able to assistfamilies and their furry loved
ones.
But just being able toexperience that much love, Well
you guys.
Speaker 1 (58:02):
I so appreciate this conversation.
And Dr Lindsay, thank you forasking such wonderful questions
and thank you for joining me.
And Mindy, thank you so muchfor all the beautiful words that
you brought to the table.
I really enjoyed thisconversation.
Thank you both so much.
Thank you, charlotte.
Thank you so much for listeningto this episode of the Vuru
(58:22):
Podcast, and a special thank youto Dr Lindsay Went for joining
me as my special co-host today.
I hope to have her back formore.
I've put links in the shownotes for Mindy's offerings, and
if you have a story of CanineCompanionship that you'd like to
share with me, or a question oreven a comment, I would love to
hear from you.
You can email me, charlotte, attheburucom, and don't forget to
(58:45):
follow us on Instagram atbarupodcast.
All right, you guys, let's chatlater.
We'll see you in the next VuruPodcast.
Bye.
Dogs make the best companions for humans.
This podcast aims to help makehumans better companions for
their dogs.
Welcome to the Baroo Podcast, amodern lifestyle podcast for
dogs and their people.
I'm your host, charlotte Bain.
I've been caring for otherpeople's dogs for more than 15
(00:21):
years and, while I've learned alot in my career, I definitely
don't know at all, so I'vecollected an ever-evolving
roster of amazing dog videos.
Dogs make the best companionsfor humans.
This podcast aims to help makehumans better companions for
their dogs.
Thank you so much for joiningme for this episode of the Baroo
(00:43):
Podcast.
Today we are doing something alittle different.
Dr Lindsay Wendt is joining meas my special guest co-host and
we are chatting with MindyMayearing, a licensed therapist,
certified life coach and theauthor and creator of the
Rainbow Bridge PetLoss Deck,which is a healing tool that
helps support people after theheartbreaking loss of a pet.
(01:04):
And as we head into theholidays, we thought it was
important to continue tonormalize these conversations
around pet loss.
The holidays can be reallytriggering for those who have
experienced a loss and, drLindsay, I can even share a
story with you and to those thatare listening yesterday was
Thanksgiving and I don't know.
(01:25):
I know you know, dr Lindsay,but I don't know if I've talked
about it on the podcast.
Recently in August I lost mygolden retriever client who I
had been caring for since he wasseven months old.
He was a little over 15 when hepassed and I'm really close
with his family and I've knownthem for ever and they do have
another dog, so I'm there a lot.
(01:47):
But yesterday I went over forThanksgiving and I walked in and
the whole family was there andI immediately felt this really
deep sense of sadness and lossover Bosco, the golden retriever
.
All the holidays that we hadwith him begging for food and he
would be breathing heavily atthe dinner table, they all kind
(02:09):
of like flashed before me and Ifelt this really deep sadness
and I love that dog dearly, asif he was my own dog.
I know that he's not my own dogand it just really made me
think about the time that I haveleft with Chance and cherish
those moments even more than Ido already.
And I found myself taking extraphotos of Chance during
(02:32):
Thanksgiving dinner.
It was probably annoyingeverybody at the table but I
could stop taking photos of him.
So it kind of just reallyspeaks to those moments when
grief can really just hit whenyou aren't expecting it right.
Speaker 2 (02:48):
Thank you so much for your vulnerability and sharing
your experience, because I knowI can empathize so much with
your story.
Both as a dog mom andprofessionally as a veterinarian
, I offer many different typesof support to pets and their
families, but a cornerstone andtrue labor of love of my
practice for the last 10 yearshas been aiding in at-home
end-of-life transitions, whichmany people often refer to as
(03:11):
euthanasia.
I know that for many of us, it'sone of the most challenging
moments that we have to face inour adult lives, but
unfortunately it's also asituation that most of us, as
pet parents, will have toencounter at some point.
So I really want to offer toolsto support those that are
facing these difficult choices,whether it's now or in the
(03:32):
future, and especially duringthis time of year.
This topic is also so importantfor anyone that's remembering
their beloved animal companionswho are no longer with us.
There are so many aspects ofthe holidays whether it's
traditions or maybe even stressabout being around family or
certain things that really helpsto just illustrate and
(03:54):
highlight how important they areto us as a support system and a
source of unconditional love.
So I am really honored to behere to help support everyone
and, like you said, normalizethese conversations because
they're important.
Speaker 1 (04:08):
It's so true I was not expecting to carry those
feelings through Thanksgiving,through dinner and even into
today.
I'm still thinking about.
I'm still thinking about them.
Well, thank you for joining meand let's just jump into the
chat.
Sounds good.
Well, thanks you guys forjumping on.
(04:31):
And Lindsay, this is veryexciting.
You are my.
This is the first time we'reco-hosting a podcast episode
together, so I am thrilled tohave you on as my co-host.
I think you can bring so muchvalue to these conversations, so
thank you so much for doingthis.
I am I'm happy to have both ofyou on.
I think, as we head into theholidays it's we can never talk
(04:51):
about pet loss too much.
We can never normalizeconversations around grief and
around the loss of a beloved pettoo much.
So I think it's reallyimportant that we're doing this
now, that probably the hardestpart of being a pet parent right
is the loss of your beloved pet.
So so first, dr Lindsay, thankyou so much for joining.
(05:14):
I think you, as I saidmentioned, you bring a lot of
value to these conversations.
Do you want, for those whoyou've been on the podcast
before?
We talked about all the greatways that we can support, all
the great ways that youholistically support our pets
and you um, that's somethingthat we just touched on briefly
(05:34):
is that you do offer end of lifecare for pets, so you have a
firsthand experience workingwith families during that
difficult time.
So would you like to just likereintroduce yourself a little
bit to the people that arelistening and talk a little?
(05:54):
bit I would love to Okay, greatyeah.
Speaker 2 (05:58):
So my name is Dr Lindsay Wendt.
I am a practitioner in the LosAngeles, southern California
area and, as I've evolvedthrough my career, actually the
one thing that I've started fromthe beginning and maintained
with a deep passion and justtrue resonance with is end of
life transitioning.
So, as my practice has evolvedfrom conventional to integrative
(06:20):
, functional, holistic, whateverterm you want to give it, end
of life care has really been bymy side and has also evolved as
I've obtained new tools.
So, as Charlotte mentioned,that is still something I, you
know, I offer to families on aweekly basis.
So every week I help, at leastyou know, a handful of families,
(06:42):
but you know certain times ofthe year, like the holidays,
unfortunately, we end up havingto make some of those decisions
far more often than we'd like to.
So I really do just try to beavailable.
And I think one thing and thereason I'm so excited to have
Mindy on here is one thing I'vereally come to realize is how
important it is it is for us tonot only support our pets but to
support the human counterpartsin the family.
(07:03):
And I think, as a veterinarian,that's not something that I was
taught or prepared really howto do properly.
So it's something that I'mlucky that, intuitively, I've
been able to pick up some ofthose skills, but it's always
something that's evolving.
I think it's always somethingthat, as a profession, we need
to focus on, because it's fartoo often that we focus on it as
a procedure and not as what ittruly is, which is truly.
(07:25):
It's a transition for theentire family.
Speaker 1 (07:28):
Right During the holidays, it seems like there
are tougher decisions that haveto be made when it comes to end
of life care.
Do you see that, dr Linty, thatit's more.
To put it bluntly, people haveto make that choice during the
holiday season more often thanduring the rest of the year.
(07:50):
Do you see that as somethingthat's common?
Speaker 2 (07:55):
I do, and what's actually very interesting is, I
would say, that the need forthat service is pretty constant
throughout the year.
But what's actually veryinteresting is during the
holidays, I see a decrease,actually initially Interesting,
I would say, around Octoberthere's less families seeking
out assistance, okay, and thensuddenly, around mid-November to
(08:17):
the end of December, there's anincrease.
And I think, from my perspective, what's happening is, as the
holidays come near, I thinkthere's a lot of families that
are really really trying to doeverything they can to keep
their pets just for one moreThanksgiving, one more holiday
celebration, and then they getinto a position where they no
longer have that choice, andthen what I've found is it
(08:39):
becomes a lot more rushed duringthe holidays, which breaks my
heart, because they sometimesdon't have the opportunity to
have someone come into theirhome, and that's probably
something I should havespecified.
The transitions that Ifacilitate are all in home, so I
allow our you know, our belovedcompanions to be where they're
comfortable, surrounded byfamily, having the environment
(08:59):
controlled, and you know that issuch a gift, and I feel like
our job as their guardians andas their companions is to make
every single step of their lifeas easy as possible and that end
transition is sometimes, youknow, it's the best.
It's the best gift that we cangive them when they're in a
position where we don't see thembeing able to improve and
(09:20):
recover from whatever you knowillness is is affecting them.
But you are right, there isdefinitely an increased demand
and it often becomes urgent,which is hard.
So I really encourage people totry to take a step back, focus
on quality of life assessmentand don't let that be a rushed
decision just simply because ofthe time of year, which I
understand.
That's very human, but I justdon't ever want people to not
(09:43):
have the opportunity to bepresent at all, because I've
seen that happen to people willleave for the holidays and then
they end up not being able tomake it back to say goodbye
which is heartbreaking.
Speaker 1 (09:54):
Absolutely.
One of the things that youreally provide is rituals around
end of life, which I find sobeautiful because I think we
often we do that, for usually,you know, many cultures
obviously have their own ritualsaround death and and, but it's
not something that's common.
(10:15):
I don't think, and and I really, I really think that that's an
important part of allowingpeople to agree even to heal,
right, Do you want?
To do you want to speak alittle bit on that?
Speaker 2 (10:32):
I'd love to, and I think for that.
You know, one of the beautifulthings about being a
veterinarian is what my clientshave taught me.
Speaker 1 (10:38):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (10:39):
And, I think, if anything, going through a more
conventional viewpoint of end oflife, transitioning, because
back then I did call iteuthanasia, which I know is the
term for it, but I just feellike, sentimentally, it doesn't
feel right for me to term it inthat way on a regular basis
anymore.
But I witnessed familiescreating beautiful ceremonies,
whether they were religious,spiritual, you know something
(10:59):
personal and that reallyinspired me to want to offer
that to people, as I, you know,acquired more tools in my
toolbox, so I'm a soundtherapist.
I'm a reiki practitioner.
You know I love and have a verystrong relationship with
crystals and I've seen theresponse that animals have to
crystals essential oils,acupuncture.
So there are so many options tocreate a peaceful environment,
(11:23):
not only for our pets but alsofor us, because I think one
thing that people fail torealize and I know Mindy will
speak to this is the energeticconnection we have with our
animals is so strong and I havewitnessed on so many occasions.
You know, obviously we're goingthrough our own grief and our
own emotions, but we have toserve as a grounding space for
(11:45):
our pets to be able to have asmooth transition.
And it's not, you know, notlistening to your feelings or,
you know, not being able toprocess them.
It's just having them have asmooth transition, be the focus
and holding that space, whetherthat's breathwork something I
have not been trained in, butI've kind of picked up along the
way to help some of my clientsthat were really struggling as
(12:05):
we went through it.
So there's so many beautifulways, you know, having people
come and speak and give foodofferings, share a story there's
just so many ways to honor them.
Speaker 1 (12:16):
I love that.
Mindy, do you find hi?
Do you want to introduceyourself a little bit and tell
us a little bit about what youdo and how you support pet?
Speaker 3 (12:28):
parents going through this Absolutely.
My name is Mindy Meiring and bytraining I'm a licensed
therapist and for the last 15years or so I've been doing my
work has been more in the realmof coaching and teaching,
mindfulness, writing, and I also, after the loss the first dog
(12:52):
that I lost in 2017, I startedwriting a book about pet loss
and became really interested in.
I had supported lots of humansin their grief as they went
through significant losses inlife transitions, but after
experiencing that and how deepthe grief was, I really wanted
(13:14):
to support other pet parents whowere experiencing that kind of
grief and loss, and so I started.
I started writing a book, andthe book evolved into a project
that actually, I think is moresuited to to people who are
(13:39):
going through the grievingprocess, because when we're
grieving, our tensions ban isoften so limited right, we're so
grief can be so destabilizing,and so I took a lot of what I'd
written and I put it into a deckcalled the Rainbow Bridge Pet
Loss Deck, and it's 52 ways toheal the heartache of losing a
(14:06):
beloved pet is what it's called.
But then we experienced the lossof our other dog, ellie, two
years later, and she was myfirst dog it was.
It was a really, as I thinkprobably so many of us who have
experienced that.
You know that first pet that wehad, right when we lost them.
(14:26):
It's a really, whether we hadthem for a short time or, like
Ellie, I had her for 15 years.
It's just so heartbreaking andpainful and so I picked up my
book, dusted it off and it andit turned into this day.
During that time I did sometraining and became certified as
(14:46):
a pet loss and grief specialistwith the Association of Pet
Loss and Breedment and really Ifeel like so much of my work now
and where my heart is is innormalizing and validating pet
grief in our culture and justoffering, you know, people who
are grieving the loss of a petways to work with their grief.
(15:10):
It's such a painful loss.
So many people say that.
You know, sometimes my clientswill come in and it's almost
like they they say it undertheir like they.
They're a bit embarrassed, youknow, but it was harder when I
lost my dog or my cat than whenI lost you know, and then
they'll name a human and I'llsay it's okay.
(15:31):
You know, I can't tell you howoften I hear that.
And just normalizing, becausethese, you know, our pets are,
they're members of our family,they're not just like family.
They are, you know, in myopinion.
So, yeah, that's that's kind ofwhere my work has really the
direction that my work has taken.
Speaker 1 (15:53):
Yeah, why?
Why do you think people carryshame or or a little bit of
embarrassment around the loss oftheir beloved pet around, or
sharing that loss with others?
They feel like they can't fully.
They feel like they can't fullyshare that loss with others, I
think, in a way that they can,you know, the loss of a human
(16:15):
family member or something likethat.
Well, there's.
Speaker 3 (16:19):
I think so many of us have probably experienced that
maybe person who's not an animallover, who hasn't had pets, who
said, well, it's just a dog,right, it's just a cat, get
another one.
And there is that some peopledo have that viewpoint, and so I
think that can be part of itand also, just in general, in
(16:43):
our culture we aren't greatabout doing grief.
Yeah, we tend to run through it, want to skip over it, want to
get over it, move on.
And so I often will say topeople this is a very deep loss
that you've experienced.
It's okay to take your time andto really let yourself grieve
(17:05):
this loss.
This animal companion was asignificant part of your life.
You had a really you know, youhad a special connection with
them, shared so much love withthem, shared so much life with
them.
It makes sense that we wouldgrieve their loss so deeply.
Speaker 2 (17:22):
Yeah, mindy, I have a question for you too.
One thing I've always wonderedis is there something to?
Not that our pets are ourchildren, but for many of us, we
provide such a level of care tothem, almost beyond what we
even extend to ourselves in somesituations.
Is there something I guess evenpsychologically along with that
(17:44):
, just because I hear that allthe time as well?
This was harder for me thanlosing my dad or my mom, or like
a very large presence in theirlife, and people do feel
embarrassed and I say the samething.
I can't tell you how many timesI hear that, and usually what I
present to them is these arebeings that we share daily
experiences with and you'reproviding care for them.
(18:05):
So, being a caregiver, doesthat at all play into, perhaps,
why it's so much more difficultto have that loss versus, maybe,
a family member?
That, of course, we love them,but it's just a different type
of relationship.
Speaker 3 (18:17):
Yeah, yeah, and I think, yes, I think that's
absolutely part of it.
And also, if you, I think thatwe all probably will be able to
relate to this, like the lovethat we share with our pets is
such a pure, uncomplicated love.
They really don't expect a lotfrom us.
In fact, you know, I can thinkabout times when I've like I'll
(18:41):
trip over my dog, obviouslyaccidentally, or you do
something, and the next thing Iknow they're just sitting there
wagging their tail at me.
You know, like I love you somuch.
I mean they're so forgiving andjust that love is so
uncomplicated, I think, comparedto you know our human
(19:04):
relationships, which are, Ithink, you know, for so many of
us we have, we have, like a lotof us have very you know, a lot
of people in our lives that welove, but human relationships
can just be more complicated, alittle bit more complex.
Speaker 1 (19:21):
They're there with us through our hardest times and
our best times, and they aresupportive and unconditionally
loving us along the way.
I think, this is probably oneof the without judgment With
some of our dogs may judge us alittle bit, but for the most
part without judgment.
Speaker 3 (19:42):
I think I have a few dogs.
I was just thinking there'syeah, we don't you know.
So often it's like they're notjudging us, they don't really
care about how much money wemake or you know all the things
sometimes that humans tend toget caught up in right and
success.
It's like they don't you know,they don't really care, they
just like to snuggle and theywant their walk and their treats
(20:05):
and they like to be with us.
Speaker 2 (20:07):
Yeah, Right, yeah, so for those of us that you know
were approaching the holidays, Ithink there's two different
perspectives.
One is there's a lot of us thataround this time, it brings up
a lot of kind of a heavyreminder of those that we've
lost, and I think that's evenmore so true for pets.
(20:28):
I know one trend that I'venoticed that I think is so
beautiful is including pets anddia de las muertos.
So I've seen a lot of peoplehonoring those that have been
lost and I mean, I've seen thesealters where it's humans and
animals equally.
So you know, because that'salmost the start of this season,
what are some tools that peoplecan use if they find themselves
(20:51):
feeling very heavy and you know, having you know, especially
for people that suffer frommental health issues, especially
like how, what are somemanagement tools that they can
use to prepare themselves forthe heaviness of the holidays?
Speaker 3 (21:06):
I love that question.
First of all, I want to justcomment on something I someone
recently sent me a link to thisbeautiful image and post, and I
guess in Mexico, before the Diade las Muertos, there is a
there's a day of the dead foranimals, specifically for
(21:28):
animals, so I'm going to do analtar for our the dogs that we
saw here on that day.
Yeah, I'll see if I can findthat and share that with you,
but I think it's so true, theholidays can be such a heavy
time of year when we experiencedthe loss of the pet or really
any type of significant loss,and so one thing is, I think the
(21:53):
first thing that I often say topeople is you know, remember
that your grief matters, and oneof the cards in my deck is
honor your grief and justremembering that it's okay to
take care of yourself, to giveyourself what you need, to let
those tears flow when and ifthey come, and certainly in
(22:17):
those first weeks and monthsafter the loss the tears can be
frequent.
Allowing those, I think,planning in time for self-care,
and sometimes that is likereally taking out your calendar
and saying I am gonna schedulelike an hour or I'm gonna set
(22:41):
aside this time to whatever itis for you that feels nourishing
.
I think self-care is so, youknow, looks different for each
of us.
I know for me, after I had lostboth of our the loss of both of
our dogs being in nature wasparticularly healing for me and
so, as much as I could, I wouldget outside and take long walks.
(23:08):
I think you know we're havingthis conversation as
Thanksgiving week here in the USbegins and gratitude can be
such a huge support as we'regrieving and I think sometimes
we it can.
(23:29):
You know, as we're grieving,there's that heaviness and that
tendency to really get caught upsometimes in our grief.
And I like to kind of think oflike two outstretched hands when
I'm thinking about grief andgratitude, that we can hold our
grief over here, we don't haveto push it down, but we can also
(23:49):
hold gratitude in our otherhand and pay attention to things
that are going well in ourlives.
Or sometimes what I'll say topeople is maybe notice what kind
of support is showing up foryou, what kind of support?
Maybe a friend that's reachingout for you know, maybe you have
(24:13):
a pet loss support group thatyou've been going to, or just
someone that cares that, youknow, is texting you to check in
and see how you're doing.
Noticing that, but noticing andpaying attention.
It's really a mindfulnesspractice, like trying to pay
attention to what's going welland you know what are things in
(24:33):
my life that I feel grateful for.
That can also be a support.
And then another thing that Ithink can be so helpful is to
think about how you can includeyour pet that you've lost into
either existing holidaytraditions and rituals, maybe
(24:58):
create new ones.
Speaker 1 (25:00):
Yeah, I love that.
Speaker 3 (25:04):
Yeah, it could be, maybe creating an ornament with
their you know their photographand name that you hang each year
, or maybe you light a candleeach night during the holiday
season in their memory.
There are different ways youcould create your whatever.
I always say like whateverfeels meaningful to you and you
(25:25):
know, do that and think abouthow you might incorporate that
into your holiday this year.
Speaker 1 (25:31):
Do you have any suggestions on how or any tools?
When we're, when we head intothe holidays, we're often faced
with lots of family members.
We're often faced with, youknow, a lot of social times and
we may be feeling overwhelmed.
We may be feeling that deepgrief during those times.
How do we, how can we functionduring those family holiday
(25:56):
times and how can we ask ourfriends to help us get through
those times together?
Does that make sense?
Speaker 3 (26:06):
It makes perfect sense, and that's a great
question.
I think one of the things youcan do is to plan ahead, to
think about what are thecommitments that I have or might
have, who will be there and doI have the bandwidth, Do I
really have the bandwidth andthe energy to do that this year?
(26:30):
There might be gatherings orthings that you say no to, and I
always, kind of like I just,you know, hand people a
metaphorical permission slip andsay you have permission to say
no.
It's okay, you know, if youreally feel like it's gonna be
(26:50):
too overwhelming or you're notup for it, it's okay to say no
to some things.
And the other thing that Ithink people can do is, you know
, have conversations ahead oftime with loved ones, with their
family, with friends, and say Iam really struggling right now.
(27:11):
I'm really, you know, I've justlost my pet, I'm in the throes
of grief and I'm really having ahard time.
I don't know how I'm gonna feelwhen this dinner rolls around
or this event, and I'd like tocome, but I just wanna let you
(27:32):
know that I may need to bow outif I'm not feeling well that day
.
So can giving yourselfpermission to change, to say no,
to change your mind.
And I think communicating withfriends and family can be really
helpful, letting them know justkind of where you're at and
(27:52):
what you need, and that kind ofsegues into what you're asking
about.
How do we support people who'velost a pet?
And you know, I think one thingwe can do is just acknowledge
the loss, Say I am, you know, Ican't imagine what you're going
through right now.
Right, Because we really, evenif we've lost a pet, we haven't
(28:16):
been through the loss thatthey're experiencing, we weren't
on that journey with the petthey've lost.
And we can just say I reallycan't imagine what you're going
through right now.
Is there anything I can do tosupport you?
You know, letting them know Iam here, if you really mean that
, right, so it's reallyimportant, like if we offer to
(28:40):
them be able to follow through.
And you might even say like I'mavailable if you wanna text or
if you wanna call.
Or you might say, you mighteven think about specific things
that, given what you know aboutthat person, they might that
might be helpful for them.
(29:01):
You might say, maybe if theyhave other pets, you might say
would it be helpful if I cameand walked, you know, your other
dogs this week just to give youa break, or would you like me
to bring you a meal?
You know, and offer things.
I think just acknowledging youknow, saying it makes sense, it
(29:25):
really makes sense, Like if theygoing back to the earlier in
our conversation, you know whensome people say, oh, it was just
a dog, but it wasn't, and justsaying you know, hey, it makes
sense that you're grieving sodeeply, it really makes sense
that you're struggling, Like youhad such a you know, you had
(29:45):
such a strong connection withand you can name their pet.
It just makes sense.
So, and saying the pet's name,if you knew their pet, I think
it can also be really lovely tojust to say, wow, you know, I
really cared for or loved youknow I'm just gonna use my dog's
(30:10):
name that I lost Ellie.
You could say I really, Ireally loved and cared for Ellie
too, and you know I rememberthat one time when she and
sharing stories about them, thatwas so meaningful like to my
husband and I when people sentus Um notes after we'd lost our
dogs and they shared theirmemories of them that that can
(30:32):
be really meaningful also.
Speaker 1 (30:34):
Yeah, I love that I think.
Speaker 2 (30:37):
One other thing that's come up for me in my work
too that kind of echoes whatyou're saying, mindy, is you
never really understand therelationship that people have
with their pets.
And when I'm in a situation andfor me most of these families
that I'm assisting this is thefirst time I've met them, so I'm
walking in.
They don't know me, but theamount that people will open up
(30:58):
and share is so beautiful andtouching.
I've had people share with methat this happened a few months
ago.
This young woman she wasprobably in her early 30s the
dog that I was helpingtransition had, literally she
had tried to commit suicide andthis dog had broken through a
window and gotten up Like shewas.
(31:19):
Like I would physically not behere if it were not for him.
People that have lost theirspouses or one of their children
and like that is the dog thatconnected or the cat that
connected them.
It's like their last piece ofthem.
It's like reliving the grief ofthat other loss all over again.
And so just knowing that comingin with like compassion and
(31:42):
understanding and maybe, if youcan't understand, even if you
don't view pets in maybe thesame way that the three of us
and a lot of other people Justknowing that the support that
they provide to their humans isimmeasurable.
It truly can be.
Speaker 1 (31:58):
I know, for I have not personally experienced the
loss of my own dog other thanwhen I was a child, and I think
this loss will be and that wasdevastating.
But I think this loss, when ithappens in 35 years he's 16
right now will be profound andI'm trying to prepare myself
(32:22):
because, yeah, as you weretalking, you know, I, for me, my
dog is my, I call him my soulguide.
I mean he came into my mind I'mgoing to get emotional talking
about he, came into my life andjust really changed it for the
better and he has really beenthere and then kind of my rock
and guided me and I've guidedhim and he's helped me build my
(32:43):
business.
I mean he's, he's, he's, youknow, he's taught me about dogs
and I've taught him to be, he'staught me to be, to feel
comfortable and safe around dogsand I've taught him to be
comfortable and safe aroundhumans.
I mean we just have thisincredible bond and and I don't
know if it makes sense toanybody else, but it makes sense
to me so and that's, I think,what people have to respect and
(33:05):
have to understand about, aboutpeople's connections with their
animals.
So definitely.
Speaker 2 (33:11):
And I think the other thing, Mindy, that I would love
for you to share too is youknow, I like Charlotte, my dog
is older and I'm constantlytrying to prepare myself as much
as I can.
So what are some things thatpeople can do, you know, as
their pets are entering into astate of terminal illness, or
(33:32):
even as they get older, like howcan we prepare ourselves?
Almost like a pre bereavementsort of support.
Speaker 1 (33:40):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (33:41):
I started asking myself that question to a couple
years before we both of ourdogs died older or senior.
We have two younger dogs now,but I think from an emotional
standpoint I don't know that wecan prepare ourselves and you
know it's at least from what Ihave found in just, you know,
(34:03):
conversations with other peopleit's really hard to know exactly
how you're going to meet thatmoment until you are there, and
then that grief take life of itsown.
But I think that when we knowour pets are, you know, have a
terminal illness, we know ourtime is limited with them.
(34:23):
I think one of the sweetestthings that we can do is just
offer them our genuine presenceand really spend as much quality
time as we can with them.
I remember when Ellie wasgetting older and she was a
really feisty condition as ourterrier make like feisty and as
(34:51):
she got three million stories Icould tell you about this dog.
I was at the vet with her allthe time.
She was always into scrapes andtrouble and but she was so much
fun she was, she was just likethe greatest dog and she slowed
down a lot.
She started to lose her hearingand I could tell she started to
(35:11):
get a touch of dementia andhave physical issues more and
more that were slowing her down,and so her quality of life was
still pretty good.
We kept good tabs on that.
But in the last few months ofher life, one of the things that
I would do because I'm theearly riser in our family and
she couldn't get up the stairsanymore to come upstairs I'd
(35:34):
sleep next to our bed, and so welet her sleep on a dog bed
downstairs so she could get inand out.
The dog door was on the firstfloor and so I would get up
early in the morning and comedownstairs and make coffee, and
then we had a little couch nextto our fireplace.
I would turn on the fireplaceand just kind of do my morning
(35:56):
quiet reading and meditationright there, and I would just
have she was lay in my lap ornext to me for that hour, and it
was really precious time that Iwill always carry with me.
So I think anything we can dolike that you know, maybe it's
taking your and maybe it'staking your dog on walks in
(36:19):
their favorite spots, if they'restill able to do that, or
you're sharing their favoritefoods but just spending that
quality time with them.
I think it's one of thegreatest gifts we can give them
and ourselves.
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (36:36):
And then I know one thing I hear a lot of people
expressing is guilt.
I should have done more.
I wish I would have knownsooner, and then actually, with
the example you were just giving, you know, for those that maybe
can't be as flexible with theirschedules or their life, right,
I guess, just acknowledging thefact that doing your best is
(36:59):
good enough.
That's one of the things Ishare a lot, but yeah is, are
there any other kind of words ofwisdom or anything you would
have for people in that positionthat maybe are really having
trouble?
You know, working through thestages of guilt, I feel like, or
stages of grief, excuse me, Ifeel like guilt and anger, or at
least some of the two that I'veseen people really have a hard
(37:19):
time moving through sometimes.
Speaker 3 (37:22):
Yeah, yeah, I think that guilt is probably the most
common emotion and even though Ifelt like we did, you know,
everything we could for our twodogs, I still felt guilt, you
know, like, oh, you know, I feltguilt that they had to suffer
at all, you know, at the end oftheir life, even though it was
(37:43):
fairly minimal.
And I think that we just wantto do, we don't want our pets to
suffer.
And so there's always to me itseems like people always
struggle with that question,since rarely do I don't often
hear of people saying that theirpets died in their sleep
(38:05):
usually the choice they have tomake, the choice to use the nice
, and there's that strugglingwith that, those questions of
did I do it too soon or did Iwait too long?
And I think normalizing thatfor people and saying guilt is
normal, and this is somethingthat almost you know that most
(38:26):
people struggle with and you didthe best that you could,
reminding people of that and, Ithink, reminding ourselves, like
I, you know, I had to remindmyself of that and really offer
myself a lot of compassion andsay, you know, sure, and
hindsight, you might have donethis differently or that, but in
(38:49):
the moment I think we are allshowing up and doing the best
that we can for our pets.
They give us so much and we'retrying to do the best we can to
care for them.
Remembering that, remindingourselves of that, offering
ourselves compassion, you know,around the choices that we've
(39:12):
made, can be really helpful,trying to suspend that judgment
as much as we can.
And one thing, like one of thecards in my deck is has a
picture of a dog on it.
It's called.
The title of it is what Wouldthey Say?
And it's really about tuning inand when you're having a
(39:36):
difficult moment, saying whatwould you know, what would you
if your pet could speak to you,like from you know, from beyond,
from from wherever they are,yeah, the spirit speaking to you
?
What would they say?
What would they say?
And that can often a lot oftimes when I ask people that you
(39:56):
know there are tears andthey'll say, oh my gosh, they'll
say my pet's telling me like tostop being so hard on myself or
that it's okay.
They know that, you know, theyknow, they know I love them and
they know that I was doing thebest I could.
So sometimes just like tuningin and or even asking yourself,
(40:18):
like when you're having adifficult moment, like if this
was my best friend.
What would I say to them?
Right, that can be reallyhelpful because we can be so
hard on ourselves and so justtrying to take a step back and
offer ourselves a littlecompassion and kindness can be
(40:40):
helpful in those moments whenwe're working with the guilt.
And, yeah, I think anger is socommon, also because we it's
like I think we're angry becausewe want our pets to live long,
like we want them to live longer.
You know, unfortunately and weknow this when we adopt them or
bring them into our lives thattheir lifespans are shorter.
(41:02):
But I think so often we getangry because we're frustrated
they didn't live as long as wewanted them to, or there's
different, there's so manydifferent reasons, but that can
be common.
And then also, maybe we couldbe angry.
If you know, I had a clientearlier this year who had to go
(41:24):
through a very difficultsituation and use behavioral
euthanasia.
Their dog was yeah, and therewas a lot of anger there to just
anger about around thesituation and that they had to
say goodbye you know too soon tothis animal that had also been,
(41:45):
you know, in many ways veryloving, but then also had
displayed some pretty aggressivebehavior towards young children
.
So I think anger can takedifferent forms and yeah, it's a
, it's a.
Speaker 1 (42:02):
I think that one's that one's much, yeah, and that
one's complicated because youfeel the guilt of not just your
pet being sick but having tomake a choice that you, you
somehow you've not done enoughbecause somehow you couldn't fix
the issue, even if you'vecalled in a trainer, even if
you've done behaviormodification, even if you've
done all these sorts of things.
So that one that one gets reallyreally tough, tough, tough
(42:25):
choice Earlier on you.
Just, you brought up embracing,you brought up gratitude, and I
wanted to talk a little bitmore about how we can embrace
gratitude in the grievingprocess.
And by that did you meet, doyou mean, you know, like being
grateful for the pet, that we,the time that we had with our
(42:45):
pet, or how do we embracegratitude when we're feeling so
overwhelming, such overwhelminggrief and probably a little bit
of sometimes, depending on thesituation, you know, just deep,
deep sadness and just I don'twant to say despair, but some
people, you know it might bereally really traumatic for.
So how do we find those momentsof gratitude in during that
time?
Speaker 3 (43:03):
Yeah, and they might just be like little glimmers of
gratitude.
Right, I get it.
I just had some of the otherdays that really having a hard
time feeling grateful right nowand, yeah, I don't, I don't
think you, you don't have toforce it, but right, at least,
for I'll share my experience andwhat I see often being helpful
(43:28):
to people.
And, yes, for me, in thebeginning of my grieving process
, it was helpful for me torecall everything I was grateful
for about the moments that Ihad shared with my pet,
everything that they brought tomy life, the journey that we had
shared together.
And so often I was talkingabout taking those walks, and
(43:48):
when I would take walks, I wouldreally like I call them my
gratitude.
You know walks and I wouldreally try and call to mind
those things that I feltgrateful for, just recalling
them, bringing that into myexperience as well as the
profound, you know, sadness thatthat was there.
(44:14):
Gratitude.
It could take the form of maybesharing your gratitude, right?
So maybe they're yourveterinarian or the pet hospice
who helped you with the end ofyour pet's life.
It might be writing a thank youletter to them, or I remember
being pleased and taking theminto our vet clinic with a
(44:36):
little note of thanks and thatwas really.
It was meaningful to me and ofcourse you know they appreciated
that and we're appreciating,you know, gratitude to other
people that cared for youranimal Maybe it was a groomer
pets, that are other people.
(44:56):
That could be one way ofbringing gratitude into the
grieving process and I willoften say, if it's hard for you
to say, like I'm, you know weoften talk about keeping a
gratitude journal oracknowledging what you feel
grateful for, and if that justfeels like oh, I just I can't
(45:19):
think of anything, you could usethe phrase I heard this
recently and I like this.
I have, so I have food in myrefrigerator, I have people in
my life who care, I have, youknow, I have a roof over my head
(45:45):
and a warm bed to sleep in,like I have, you know, what are
the things acknowledging andreally that's a way of
acknowledging the presence of,you know, kind of the gifts in
our lives that we often take forgranted.
But that's another way, yeah,and I just find that in in terms
of like the how it can behelpful.
(46:08):
It's that our minds are arewired to kind of stick more to
the negative Right from aneurobiological perspective,
like why is that?
Speaker 1 (46:22):
Yeah, that's a whole other podcast episode.
Why is that?
It's so tough to turn thataround sometimes.
Speaker 3 (46:31):
Well, and I first heard this, rick Hampton is a
neuropsychologist and he thishas always stayed with me.
He said our brains are liketeflon to the positive and
velcro to the negative, and wetend to, you know, yes, the
negative things stick more, andit's from an evolutionary
(46:52):
perspective, it's about survival.
But we don't need that anymore.
I'm not living in an age where,like where tigers are gonna eat
us but our minds still tend toglom onto the negative.
So, especially when we'regrieving and we're in that place
of, like you were saying,despair, deep heartache, it can
be helpful to kind of balance,help balance that out a bit with
(47:16):
a practice like gratitude thathelps us remember there are
things in our life that aregoing well also.
Speaker 2 (47:24):
I think one thing too that I've seen really touch
others and even those that areinvolving themselves in it, is,
if you maybe can't find a way tobe grateful in that moment,
provide some sort of activeservice to someone.
So one thing in my community iswhen one of us loses one of our
(47:44):
beloved pets, we will usuallydonate to a cause that either
has something to do with thatpet in particular or like a
breed, specific rescue or ashelter near them, or just some
way of giving back, or we'llphysically actually go do
something together, and I foundthat that's really, you know
it's always very emotional, butit's something that we can all
(48:06):
remember and just know that youknow there's a community of
people supporting you, or justif you're one person that's
going and spending time in ashelter where you know they're
so in need of assistance rightnow that I feel like if our pets
could have an input for what wewould be doing, it's spreading
that love elsewhere.
And that doesn't necessarilymean bringing a new, a new
little one, into your life rightaway, because that, I know, is
(48:28):
a very challenging considerationfor a lot of people, and I
always tell people you'll knowwhen you're ready, or the other
thing that I have found is Ifeel like a lot of times our
pets will send us the individualwhen we're ready for it.
Speaker 1 (48:44):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (48:44):
Yeah, I love that.
Yeah, so, mindy, the way that Imet you.
And then one thing that I wouldlove to talk about further is
the deck itself, because it issuch a beautiful offering, and
I'd love for you to talk alittle bit more about how people
can utilize it, because I thinkmost people, when they see it,
(49:05):
would think of it as being, youknow, something to use, perhaps
after the loss to help with thatpost-loss bereavement and grief
.
But are there other ways thatpeople could utilize that, the
tool that you're providing themand almost like in preparation
or just to help navigate?
Speaker 3 (49:27):
Yeah, Well, I think you know, when you mentioned
earlier the term anticipatorygrief, and that I think that the
minute we know our pets have aterminal illness or are near the
end of our life, we begin togrieve, and so that grief
doesn't begin when they die,it's going on beforehand.
(49:48):
So the deck can.
I think that the tools and thepractices and just a lot of the
reminders that are in the deckcan be helpful as you're
preparing for that time whenyour pet dies.
And you know, one thing thatI've heard a couple of people
(50:11):
say is that they started workingwith it a few months beforehand
and that then, when the timecame, they felt like it actually
had given them some tools thatwere really helpful to have in
that moment and in those weeksafter their pet's death when
they were going through thattime of a more cute grief.
(50:33):
So I think it can be helpfulpre loss and, of course, after
the loss of a pet.
In fact, I had, as I wascreating it, I made these
prototype decks, so I would takethe artwork and I would
literally like cut and paste themessages and put it on the back
(50:53):
and make these decks and sendthem to people so that they
could use that and then give mefeedback and so it was a win-win
right.
They got to use it and have thebenefit of using it, but then
they also would give me feedback.
And I have one woman who's usedit for almost three years and
(51:15):
says that she's still doing ithard.
Because she's still, eventhough she just adopted a new
dog recently.
She waited for quite some timebut she said I'm still grieving
the loss of my previous dog andit's really helpful.
It's part of my ritual to drawa card each day.
Speaker 2 (51:38):
Yeah, I love that.
I think it is going back tomindfulness too.
I love it Because so much ofwhat's in the deck, I mean I
feel like it can be appliedoutside of even the specific
purpose for which you created it.
Speaker 3 (51:54):
Yeah, I had one back say that they one of the things
that they do is in their weeklystaff meeting they draw a card
because they like to talk aboutself-care, and so they said, you
know, each week we take onecard and then we talk about that
in our staff meeting.
So it's really it's.
I love hearing about all thedifferent ways that it's being
(52:17):
used and people will say youknow, the messages in here can
apply to really any type of lossand many of them can.
There's a lot that are you know, that have, that are more
specific to pets, because that'sthe the intent of this.
You know this healing tool thatI created, but they're also
(52:41):
applicable to grief and loss ingeneral.
Yeah, so some people that aregrieving humans that they've
lost or going through other typeof losses find that it's
helpful in helping them on thosehealing journeys as well.
Speaker 1 (52:55):
For those that are listening, can we be a little
technical?
What so?
How do we use?
So it's, it's a, it's a deck ofcar, of the cars that you
created for grief and andbereavement, and do we pull one
daily?
To do we pull one daily, orjust as we feel inspired to do
so, to remind us of gratitude orwhat exactly?
Speaker 3 (53:19):
Well, my recommendation and there's a
little card in the deck thatthat offers guidance in terms of
how I, when people use it is tojust close your eyes and think
of the pet you've lost and drawa card each day and it resonates
.
That's great.
If it doesn't, you can put itback and pull another one.
(53:40):
Until you pull one that doesfeel appropriate for for
whatever you know, your, yourkind of the place that you're in
that day.
And so some people tell me thatthey sit down and they read all
of these cards when they get tothem and then they will just
(54:00):
pull out a card or two thatfeels like most helpful to them
that day or that week.
And yeah, it's so.
There's no right or wrong wayto use it.
Yeah, there's just no right orwrong way to use it.
Those are.
That was my recommendation, andthen I always say to people use
(54:21):
it in the way that serves youbest.
There's 52 different messages,and the reason I included so
many was because we all grievedifferently.
If I wanted to people, or tooffer people a variety of
different coping strategies,tools, practices, that that they
(54:43):
can use, and then there arealso different ways that you can
, ideas for honoring your pet'smemory, and and then reminders,
just reminders, kind of all thenations like that.
You know we all grieve in ourown timeline.
There's no right or wrong wayto grieve.
There's a message calledhonoring your grief.
(55:05):
We talked about the.
You know that at the verybeginning, just taking time,
allowing yourself the time thatyou need to grieve, yeah, and
kind of following up on that.
Speaker 2 (55:15):
I love the idea of honoring them after.
So a part of my practice is theend of life transitions, but I
think one thing that a lot ofpeople don't consider and that I
try to help guide as much as Ican, is after they're gone.
Besides, you know a lot of thethings we've talked about, what
are other ways that we can honorthem, Even physically?
(55:36):
So I know this is a littletechnical, but it's, of course,
something that we have toconsider.
To consider is with theirremains, what do we do, and
everyone has a very differentfeeling about that, but some of
the things I just wanted tomention that I've seen that are
absolutely beautiful is thereare cremation jewelry, there are
(55:58):
physical.
I've seen planters with asucculent and then the remains
go in part of it.
I mean it's going somewherethat was meaningful to you and
spreading some of the remainsand having some sort of small
ceremony.
There's just so many ways toreally kind of think outside the
box, and I will say Etsy is areally great resource when it
(56:18):
comes to jewelry or any sort ofphysical keepsake.
There are so many beautifulartisans on there that are doing
great things to honor bothhumans but also pets.
We can take advantage of thoseas well.
Speaker 3 (56:32):
Yeah, etsy's great place.
I love all those ideas.
One of the things I did I'llshare this, like, I think a
photo collage can be really cooltoo, that you and you can make
it yourself, or you could do it,like on a site like Snapfish or
an online site, but that can bereally sweet.
(56:55):
Yeah, doing something, though,right, it's such a.
It's a way to honor theirmemory, and then it's also a way
it's something that I think inour culture we have so many
rituals in different ceremoniesthat to honor the loss of a
(57:15):
human loved one, but not so manyof her pets.
So we get to create.
Yeah, we get to create our own,be creative.
I love that, and, lindsay, youprobably get to hear so many
different ideas from people.
Speaker 2 (57:28):
Yeah, I really do, and some of the ceremonies I've
watched, I mean, arebreathtaking, like brush flowers
, I mean, people playing soundbowls, gongs, chanting, sharing,
you know, for those that arereligious or spiritual sharing
passages, and it's really it'sbeen a very privileged
(57:51):
experience to be able to assistfamilies and their furry loved
ones.
But just being able toexperience that much love, Well
you guys.
Speaker 1 (58:02):
I so appreciate this conversation.
And Dr Lindsay, thank you forasking such wonderful questions
and thank you for joining me.
And Mindy, thank you so muchfor all the beautiful words that
you brought to the table.
I really enjoyed thisconversation.
Thank you both so much.
Thank you, charlotte.
Thank you so much for listeningto this episode of the Vuru
(58:22):
Podcast, and a special thank youto Dr Lindsay Went for joining
me as my special co-host today.
I hope to have her back formore.
I've put links in the shownotes for Mindy's offerings, and
if you have a story of CanineCompanionship that you'd like to
share with me, or a question oreven a comment, I would love to
hear from you.
You can email me, charlotte, attheburucom, and don't forget to
(58:45):
follow us on Instagram atbarupodcast.
All right, you guys, let's chatlater.
We'll see you in the next VuruPodcast.
Bye.
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