Originally released in 2023
Navigating the holiday season after losing a beloved pet can be emotionally complicated, but you're not alone in this journey. Dr. Lindsey Wendt DVM, joins me co-hosting a chat with Mindy Meiering, LCSW, a licensed therapist, certified life coach and the author/creator of the Rainbow Bridge Pet Loss Deck, a healing tool that supports people after the heartbreaking loss of a pet. She works with people who are navigating various types of loss and life transitions, offering them tools to cultivate resilience and healing.
Mindy shares her insights on the power of gratitude and the process of creating her grief deck. Our conversation is infused with actionable strategies for coping with grief during the holiday season, from incorporating pets into our holiday traditions to communicating our needs to loved ones. By the end, we hope you'll find comfort in the realization that while our pets' physical presence may fade, their spirit remains forever in our hearts.
Useful Links:
Dr. Lindsey Wendt https://www.crystallotusvet.com/
Instagram https://www.instagram.com/crystallotusvet/
Mindy Meiering https://rainbowbridgedeck.com/
Instagram @mindymeiring
If you are enjoying The Baroo Podcast you can now support the show by buying me a coffee.
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Pet parent question or story of canine companionship to share ? Email charlotte@thebaroo.com or call 424-273-5131.
*This podcast is for informational purposes only, even if, and regardless of whether it features the advice of veterinarians or professional dog trainers. It is not, nor is it intended to be a substitute for professional veterinary care or personalized canine behavior advice and should not be used as so. Th
If you are enjoying The Baroo Podcast you can now support the show by buying me a coffee.
Shop the podcast:
https://www.thebaroo.com/shop-pod
Follow The Baroo:
Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/baroopup/
Blog- https://www.thebaroo.com/
Facebook- https://www.facebook.com/baroopet/
Pet parent question or story of canine companionship to share ? Email charlotte@thebaroo.com or call 424-273-5131.
*This podcast is for informational purposes only, even if, and regardless of whether it features the advice of veterinarians or professional dog trainers. It is not, nor is it intended to be a substitute for professional veterinary care or personalized canine behavior advice and should not be used as so. The views expressed in this podcast are solely those of the podcast author or the individual views of those participating in the podcast.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
SPEAKER_01 (00:01):
Dogs make the best companions for humans.
This podcast aims to help makehumans better companions for
their dogs.
Welcome to the Baruch Podcast, amodern lifestyle podcast for
dogs and their people.
I'm your host, Charlotte Bain.
I've been caring for otherpeople's dogs for more than 15
(00:21):
years.
And while I've learned a lot inmy career, I definitely don't
know it all.
So I've collected anever-evolving roster of amazing
dog people.
And I learn new things from themall the time.
Thank you so much for joining mefor this episode of the Baruch
(00:43):
Podcast.
Today we are doing something alittle different.
Dr.
Lindsay Wendt is joining me asmy special guest co-host, and we
are chatting with MindyMeyering, a licensed therapist,
certified life coach, and theauthor and creator of the
Rainbow Bridge Pet Loss Deck,which is a healing tool that
helps support people after theheartbreaking loss of a pet.
(01:04):
And as we head into theholidays, we thought it was
important to continue tonormalize these conversations
around pet loss.
The holidays can be reallytriggering for those who have
experienced a loss.
And Dr.
Lindsay, I can even share astory with you and to those that
are listening.
Yesterday was Thanksgiving, andI don't know, I know you know
(01:25):
Dr.
Lindsay, but I don't know ifI've talked about it on the
podcast.
Recently, in August, I lost myGolden Retriever client who I
had been caring for since he wasseven months old.
He was a little over 15 when hepassed, and I'm really close
with his family and I've knownthem forever.
And they do have another dog, soI'm there a lot.
(01:46):
But yesterday I went over forThanksgiving and I walked in and
the whole family was there, andI immediately felt this really
deep sense of sadness and lossover Bosco, the golden
retriever.
All the holidays that we hadwith him begging for food and he
would be breathing heavily atthe dinner table, they all kind
(02:08):
of like flash before me.
And I felt this really deepsadness.
And I love that dog dearly, asif he was my own dog.
I know that he's not my own dog,and it just really made me think
about the time that I have leftwith chance and cherish those
moments even more than I doalready.
And I found myself taking extraphotos of Chance during
(02:31):
Thanksgiving dinner.
It was probably annoyingeverybody at the table, but I
couldn't stop making photos ofhim.
So it kind of just really speaksto those moments when grief can
really just hit when you aren'texpecting it, right?
SPEAKER_03 (02:47):
Thank you so much for your vulnerability and
sharing your experience becauseI know I can empathize so much
with your story, both as a dogmom and professionally.
As a veterinarian, I offer manydifferent types of support to
pets and their families, but acornerstone and true labor of
love of my practice for the last10 years has been aiding in
at-home end of life transitions,which many people often refer to
(03:10):
as euthanasia.
I know that for many of us, it'sone of the most challenging
moments that we have to face inour adult lives, but
unfortunately, it's also asituation that most of us as pet
parents will have to encounterat some point.
So I really want to offer toolsto support those that are facing
these difficult choices, whetherit's now or in the future, and
(03:32):
especially during this time ofyear.
This topic is also so importantfor anyone that's remembering
their beloved animal companionswho are no longer with us.
There are so many aspects of theholidays, you know, whether it's
traditions or, you know, maybeeven stress about being around
family or certain things thatreally helps to just illustrate
(03:53):
and highlight how important theyare to us as a support system
and a source of unconditionallove.
So I am really honored to behere to help support everyone
and, like you said, normalizethese conversations because
they're important.
SPEAKER_01 (04:07):
It's so true.
I was not expecting to carrythose feelings through
Thanksgiving, through dinner,and even into today, I'm still
thinking about I'm stillthinking about them.
Well, thank you for joining me.
And let's just jump into thechat.
Sounds good.
Well, thanks you guys forjumping on.
(04:29):
And Lindsay, this is veryexciting.
You are my, this is the firsttime we're co-hosting a podcast
episode together.
So I am thrilled to have you onas my co-host.
I think you can bring so muchvalue to these conversations.
So thank you so much for doingthis.
Um, I am I'm happy to have bothof you on.
I think as we head into theholidays, it's we can never talk
(04:50):
about pet loss too much.
We can never normalizeconversations around grief and
around the loss of a beloved pettoo much.
So I think it's really importantthat we're doing this now.
That probably the hardest partof being a pet parent, right, is
the loss of your beloved pet.
So so first, Dr.
Lindsay, thank you so much forjoining.
(05:12):
Um, I think you, as I said,mentioned, you bring a lot of
value to these conversations.
Do you want for those who uhyou've been on the podcast
before, we talked about all thegreat ways that we can support
um, all the great ways that youholistically support our pets.
And you um that's something thatwe just touched on briefly is
(05:32):
that you do offer end of lifecare for pets.
So you have a firsthandexperience working with families
during that difficult time.
So would you like to just likereintroduce yourself a little
bit to the people that arelistening and talk about?
(05:52):
I would love to.
SPEAKER_03 (05:53):
Okay, great.
Yeah.
So my name is Dr.
Lindsay Wendt.
I am a practitioner in the LosAngeles, Southern California
area.
And as I've evolved through mycareer, actually, the one thing
that I've started from thebeginning and maintained with a
deep passion and just trueresonance with is end-of-life
(06:13):
transitioning.
So as my practice has evolvedfrom conventional to
integrative, functional,holistic, whatever term you want
to give it, end-of-life care hasreally been by my side and has
also evolved as I've obtainednew tools.
So as Charlotte mentioned, thatis still something I, you know,
I offer to families on a weeklybasis.
(06:35):
So every week I help at least,you know, a handful of families,
but you know, at certain timesof the year, like the holidays,
unfortunately, we end up havingto make some of those decisions
far more often than we'd liketo.
So I really do just try to beavailable.
And um, I think one thing, andthe reason I'm so excited to
have Mindy on here is one thingI've really come to realize is
(06:56):
how important it is, it is forus to not only support our pets,
but to support the humancounterparts in the family.
And I think as a veterinarian,that's not something that I was
taught or prepared really how todo properly.
So it's something that I'm I'mlucky that intuitively I've been
able to pick up some of thoseskills, but it's always
something that's evolving.
I think it's always somethingthat as a profession we need to
(07:16):
focus on because it's far toooften that we focus on it as a
procedure and not as what ittruly is, which is truly it's a
transition for the entirefamily.
SPEAKER_01 (07:26):
Right.
During the holidays, it seemslike there are tougher decisions
that have to be made when itcomes to end-of-life care.
Are you seeing do you see that,Dr.
Lindsay, that it's more to putit bluntly, people have to make
that choice during the holidayseason more often than during
(07:48):
the rest of the year.
Do you see that as somethingthat's common?
SPEAKER_03 (07:52):
I do.
And what's actually veryinteresting is I would say that
the need for that service ispretty constant throughout the
year.
But what's actually veryinteresting is during the
holidays, I see a decreaseactually initially.
Interesting.
I would say around October,there's less families seeking
out assistance.
Okay.
And then suddenly aroundmid-November to the end of
(08:16):
December, there's an increase.
And I think from my perspective,what's happening is as the
holidays come near, I thinkthere's a lot of families that
are really, really trying to doeverything they can to keep
their pets just for one moreThanksgiving, you know, one more
holiday celebration.
And then they get into aposition where they no longer
have that choice.
And then it what I've found isit becomes a lot more rushed
(08:38):
during the holidays, whichbreaks my heart because they
sometimes don't have theopportunity to have someone come
into their home.
And that's probably something Ishould have specified.
The transitions that Ifacilitate are all in home.
So I allow our, you know, ourbeloved companions to be where
they're comfortable, surroundedby family, having the
environment controlled.
And, you know, that is such agift.
(09:00):
And I feel like our job as theirguardians and as their
companions is to make everysingle step of their life as
easy as possible.
SPEAKER_02 (09:08):
Right.
SPEAKER_03 (09:08):
And that end transition is sometimes, you
know, it's the best, it's thebest gift that we can give them
when they're in a position wherewe don't see them being able to
improve and recover fromwhatever, you know, illness is
affecting them.
But you are right, there isdefinitely an increased demand
and it often becomes urgent,which is hard.
So I really encourage people totry to take a step back, focus
(09:31):
on quality of life assessment,and don't let that be a rush
decision just simply because ofthe time of year, which I
understand that's very human,but I just don't ever want
people to not have theopportunity to be present at all
because I've seen that happentoo.
People will leave for theholidays and then they end up
not being able to make it backto say goodbye, which is
heartbreaking.
SPEAKER_01 (09:52):
Absolutely.
One of the things that youreally provide is rituals around
end of life, which I find sobeautiful because I think we
often we do that for usually.
Um, you know, many culturesobviously have their own rituals
around death and and but I it'snot something that's common, I
(10:13):
don't think.
And and I really think thatthat's an important part of
allowing people to grieve and toheal, right?
Um do you want to do you want tospeak a little bit on that?
SPEAKER_03 (10:29):
I'd love to, and I think for that, you know, one of
the beautiful things about beinga veterinarian is what my
clients have taught me.
SPEAKER_01 (10:36):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_03 (10:37):
And I think if anything, going through a more
conventional viewpoint of end oflife transitioning, because back
then I did call it euthanasia,which I know is the term for it,
but I just feel likesentimentally it doesn't feel
right for me to term it in thatway on a regular basis anymore.
But I witness families creatingbeautiful ceremonies, whether
they were religious, spiritual,you know, something personal.
(10:58):
And that really inspired me towant to offer that to people as
I, you know, acquired more toolsin my toolbox.
So I'm a sound therapist, I'm aReiki practitioner, you know, I
love and have a very strongrelationship with crystals, and
I've seen the response thatanimals have to crystals,
essential oils, acupunctures.
So there are so many options tocreate a peaceful environment,
(11:21):
not only for our pets, but alsofor us.
Because I think one thing thatpeople fail to realize, and I
know Mindy will speak to this,is the energetic connection we
have with our animals is sostrong.
And I have witnessed on so manyoccasions, you know, obviously
we're going through our owngrief and our own emotions, but
we have to serve as a groundingspace for our pets to be able to
(11:44):
have a smooth transition.
And it's not, you know, notlistening to your feelings or,
you know, not being able toprocess them.
It's just having them have asmooth transition be the focus
and holding that space, whetherthat's breath work, something I
have not been trained in, butI've kind of picked up along the
way to help some of my clientsthat were really struggling as
we went through it.
(12:04):
So there's so many beautifulways, you know, having people
come and speak and give foodofferings, share a story.
There's just so many ways tohonor them.
SPEAKER_01 (12:14):
I love that.
Um, Mindy, uh, do you find umhi?
Do you want to introduceyourself a little bit um and
tell us a little bit about whatyou do and how you support pet
parents going through.
SPEAKER_00 (12:27):
Um my name is Mindy Meiring, and by training, I'm a
licensed therapist.
And um for the last 15 years orso, I've been doing um my work
has been more in the realm ofcoaching and teaching
mindfulness, writing.
And I also um after the loss,the first dog that um I lost in
(12:52):
2017, um started writing a bookabout pet loss and became really
interested in, I had supportedlots of humans in their um grief
as they went through significantlosses and life transitions.
But um after experiencing thatand how deep the grief was, I
really wanted to uh supportother pet parents who were
(13:17):
experiencing that kind of griefand loss.
And um and so I started Istarted writing a book, and the
book evolved into um a projectthat um actually I think is more
suited to uh to people who aregoing through the grieving
(13:39):
process because when we'regrieving, our attention span is
often so limited, right?
We're so grief can be sodestabilizing.
And so I took um a lot of whatI'd written and I put it into a
deck called the Rainbow BridgePet Loss Deck, and it's um I
(14:01):
love that 52 Ways to Heal theHeartache of Losing a Beloved
Pet is what it's called.
But then we experienced the lossof our other dog, Ellie, um, two
years later.
And she was my first dog.
It was it was a really um, as Ithink probably so many of us
who've experienced that, youknow, that first pet that we
(14:23):
had, right, when we lost them.
It's a really um whether we hadthem for a short time or like
Elia had her for 15 years, it'sjust uh so heartbreaking and
painful.
And so I picked up my book,dusted it off, and it and it
turned into this deck.
During that time, um, did sometraining and became certified as
(14:44):
a pet loss and grief specialistwith the Association of Pet Loss
and Brevement.
And really, I I feel like somuch of my work now and where my
heart is is in normalizing andvalidating pet grief in our
culture and just offering um,you know, people who are
grieving the loss of a pet waysto work with their grief.
(15:09):
Um it's it's such a painfulloss.
So many people say that, youknow, sometimes my clients will
come in and it's almost likethey they say it under their
breath, like they they're a bitembarrassed, uh, you know, but
it was harder when I lost my dogor my cat than when I lost, you
know, and then they'll name ahuman level.
And I'll say, it's okay.
(15:29):
I, you know, I can't tell youhow often I hear that.
Um and just normalizing becausethese, you know, our our pets
are they're members of ourfamily.
They're not just like family,they are, you know, in my
opinion.
So yeah, that's that's kind ofwhere my work um has really the
direction that my work hastaken.
SPEAKER_01 (15:50):
Yeah.
Why, why do you think peoplecarry shame or or a little bit
of embarrassment around the lossof their beloved pet, around or
sharing that loss with others?
They feel like they can't fully,they feel like they can't fully
share that loss with others, Ithink, in a way uh that they
can, you know, the loss of a ofa of a human family member or
(16:15):
something like that.
SPEAKER_00 (16:16):
Well, there's um, I think so many of us have
probably experienced that maybeperson who's not an animal lover
or who hasn't had pets who'vesaid, well, it's just a dog,
right?
It's just a cat, get anotherone.
And there is that um some peopledo have that viewpoint.
And so I think that can be partof it.
(16:38):
And also just in general, in ourculture, we aren't um great
about doing grief.
Yeah, we tend to run through it,want to skip over it, want to
get over it, move on.
And so I often will say topeople, this is a very uh deep
loss that you've experienced.
(16:59):
It's okay to take your time andto really let yourself grieve
this loss.
This is animal companion was asignificant part of your life.
You had a really, you know, youhad a special connection with
them, shared so much love withthem, shared so much life with
them.
It makes sense that we wouldgrieve their loss so deeply.
(17:20):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_03 (17:20):
Mindy, I have a question for you too.
One thing I've always wonderedis is there something to not
that our pets are our children,but for many of us, we provide
such a level of care to themalmost beyond what we even
extend to ourselves in somesituations.
Is there something, I guess,even like psychologically, along
(17:41):
with that?
It just because I hear that allthe time as well.
This was harder for me thanlosing my dad or my mom, or you
know, like a very, you know,large presence in their life.
And people do feel embarrassed.
And I say the same thing.
You I can't tell you how manytimes I hear that.
And usually what I present tothem is, you know, these are
beings that we share dailyexperiences with, and you're
(18:02):
providing care for them.
So being a caregiver, does thatat all play into perhaps why
it's so much more difficult tohave that loss versus maybe a
family member that of course welove them, but it's just a
different type of relationship.
unknown (18:16):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (18:16):
Yeah.
And I think, yes, I think that'sabsolutely part of it.
And also, if you I think that weall probably will be able to
relate to this, like the lovethat we share with our pets is
such a pure, uncomplicated love.
They really don't expect a lotfrom us.
In fact, you know, I can thinkabout times when I've um like,
(18:38):
I'll trip over my dog, Iobviously accidentally, or
you'll do something.
And the next thing I know,they're just sitting there
wagging their tail at me.
Um, you know, like I love you somuch.
I mean, they're so forgiving andjust that love is so
uncomplicated, I think, comparedto, you know, our our human
(19:02):
relationships, which are, Ithink, you know, for so many of
us, we have we have like a lotof us have very, you know, a lot
of people in our lives that welove, but human relationships
can just be more complicated, alittle bit more complex.
SPEAKER_01 (19:18):
They're there with us through our our hardest times
and our best times, and they aresupportive and unconditionally
loving us along the way.
I think is is probably one ofthe without judgment.
With some of our dogs may jumjudge us a little bit, but but
for the most part, withoutjudgment.
I think I have a few dogs on thecase.
SPEAKER_00 (19:39):
I was, you know, I was just thinking that could be
I was just thinking there'syeah, we don't, you know, so
often it's like they're notjudging us, they don't really
care about how much money wemake or, you know, all the
things sometimes that um humanstend to get caught up in, right?
And success, it's like theydon't, you know, they don't
really care.
(20:00):
They just like to snuggle andthey want their walk and their
treats and they like to be withus.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_03 (20:07):
Right.
Yeah.
So um for those of us that, youknow, we're approaching the
holidays, I think there's twodifferent perspectives.
One is there's a lot of us thataround this time it brings up a
lot of kind of a heavy reminderof those that we've lost.
And I think that's even more sotrue for pets.
I know one trend that I'venoticed that I think is so
(20:29):
beautiful is including pets inDia de los Muertos.
So I've seen a lot of peoplehonoring those that have been
lost.
And I, I mean, I've seen thesealtars where it's humans and
animals equally.
So, you know, because that'salmost the start of the season,
what are some tools that peoplecan use if they find themselves
(20:49):
feeling very heavy and, youknow, having, you know,
especially for people thatsuffer from mental health
issues, especially, like howwhat are some management tools
that they can use to preparethemselves for the heaviness of
the holidays?
SPEAKER_00 (21:04):
I love that question.
Um, first of all, I want to justcomment on something.
I someone recently sent me alink to this beautiful image and
post.
And I guess in uh Mexico beforethe Dios de los Muertos, there
is uh there's a day of the deadfor animals, specifically for
(21:26):
animals.
So I'm gonna do an altar for ourour the dogs that we didn't know
that here on that day.
Yeah, I'll see if I can findthat and and share that with
you.
But um I think it's so true theholidays can be such a heavy
time of year when we'veexperienced um the loss of a pet
or really any type ofsignificant loss.
(21:47):
And so one thing is I think thefirst thing that I often say to
people is, you know, rememberthat your grief matters.
And one of the cards in my deckis honor your grief.
And just remembering that it'sokay to take care of yourself,
to give yourself what you need,to let those tears flow when and
(22:11):
if they come.
And certainly um in those firstweeks and and months after the
loss, it can, you know, thetears can be frequent.
Um allowing those.
Um I think planning in time forself-care.
And sometimes that is likereally taking out your calendar
(22:34):
and saying, I am gonna schedulelike an hour or I'm gonna set
aside this time to um whateverit is for you that feels
nourishing.
I think self-care is so, youknow, looks different for for
each of us.
I know for me, after um, I hadlost most of our um, the loss of
both of our dogs, being innature was particularly healing
(22:58):
for me.
And so as much as I could, Iwould get outside and take long
walks.
Um I think you know, we're we'reuh having this conversation um
as Thanksgiving week here in theUS begins, and gratitude can be
such a huge uh support as we'regrieving.
(23:21):
And um I think sometimes we itit can, you know, as we're
grieving, there's that heavinessand that tendency to really get
caught up sometimes in ourgrief.
And I like to kind of think oflike two outstretched hands when
I'm thinking about grief andgratitude, that we can hold our
(23:42):
grief over here.
We don't have to go, you know,we don't have to push it down,
but we can also hold gratitudein our other hand and pay
attention to um things that aregoing well in our lives.
Or sometimes what I'll say topeople is maybe notice what kind
of support is showing up foryou.
SPEAKER_02 (24:04):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (24:05):
What kind of support?
Maybe a friend that's reachingout, or you know, maybe you have
a pet loss support group thatyou've been going to, or just
someone that cares that, youknow, is texting you to check in
and see how you're doing,noticing that, but noticing and
paying attention, it's really amindfulness practice, like
(24:27):
trying to pay attention towhat's going well and you know
what are things in my life thatI feel grateful for.
That can also be a support.
Um and then I another thing thatI think can be so helpful is to
think about how you can includeyour pet that you've lost into
(24:51):
either existing holidaytraditions and rituals or maybe
create new ones.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (24:59):
Um I love that.
SPEAKER_00 (25:01):
Yeah, it could be maybe creating an ornament with
their um, you know, theirphotograph and name that you
hang each year, or maybe youlight a candle each night during
the holiday season in theirmemory.
Um, there are different ways youcould you could create your
whatever.
I always say like whatever feelsmeaningful to you, and you know,
(25:23):
do that and think about how youmight incorporate that into your
holiday this year.
SPEAKER_01 (25:28):
Do you have any suggestions on how or any tools?
When we're when we head into theholidays, we're often faced with
lots of family members, we'reoften faced with you know a lot
of social times, and we may befeeling overwhelmed, we may be
feeling that deep grief duringthose times.
How do we how can we function umduring those those family
(25:53):
holiday times and and how can weask our friends to help us um
get through those timestogether?
Does that make sense?
SPEAKER_00 (26:04):
It makes perfect sense, and that's a great
question.
I think um one of the things youcan do is to plan ahead, to
think about what are thecommitments that I have or might
have, who will be there.
And do I have the bandwidth?
Do I really have the bandwidthand the energy to do that this
(26:28):
year?
Um there might be gatherings orthings that you say no to.
And I always kind of like I justyou know, hand people a
metaphorical uh permission slipand say, you have permission to
say no.
It's okay, you know, if youreally feel like it's it's gonna
be um too overwhelming or you'reyou're not up for it, it's okay
(26:51):
to say no to some things.
And the other thing that I thinkpeople can do is um, you know,
have conversations ahead of timewith loved ones, with their
family, with friends, and say, Iam really struggling right now.
I'm really, you know, I've justlost my pet.
(27:12):
I'm in the um throes of grief,and I'm really having a hard
time.
I don't know how I'm gonna feelwhen this dinner rolls around or
um this event, and I'd like tocome, but I just want to let you
know that I'm I may need to bowout if I'm not feeling well that
(27:34):
day.
So kind of giving yourselfpermission to change, to say no,
to change your mind.
And I think communicating withfriends and family can be really
helpful, letting them know justkind of where you're at um and
what you need.
And that kind of segues intowhat you're asking about how do
(27:56):
we support people who've lost apet?
And you know, I think one thingwe can do is just is acknowledge
the loss.
Say, I am, you know, I I can'timagine what you're going
through right now, right?
Because we we really, even ifwe've lost a pet, we haven't
been through the loss thatthey're experiencing.
(28:17):
We didn't, we weren't on thatjourney with the pet they've
lost.
Um, and we can just say, Ireally can't imagine what you're
going through right now.
Is there anything I can do tosupport you?
You know, letting them know I amhere, if you really mean that,
right?
So it's really important, likeif we offer to them be able to
(28:39):
follow through.
And you might even say, like,I'm available if you want to
text or if you want to call, oryou might say, you might even
think about specific things thatgiven what you know about that
person, they might um that mightbe helpful for them.
(28:59):
You might say, maybe if theyhave other pets, you might say,
would it be helpful if I cameand walked, you know, your other
dogs um this week just to giveyou a break?
Or would you like me to bringyou a meal, you know, and offer
things.
Um I think just acknowledging,you know, saying it makes sense.
(29:22):
It really makes sense.
Like if they um going back tothe earlier in our conversation,
you know, when some people say,Oh, it was just a dog, but it
wasn't, and just saying, youknow, I mean it makes sense that
uh you're grieving so deeply.
It really makes sense thatyou're struggling.
Like you had such a um, youknow, you had such a strong
(29:44):
connection with and you can nametheir pet.
Um, it just makes sense.
So, and saying the pet's name,if if you knew their pet, I
think it can also be reallylovely to um just to to say,
wow, you know, I I really caredfor or loved, you know, um I'm
(30:07):
just gonna use my dog's namethat I lost Ellie.
You could say I really I reallyloved and cared for Ellie too.
And and you know, I rememberthat one time when she and
sharing stories about them.
That was so meaningful, like tomy husband and I when people
sent us um notes after we'd lostour dogs and they shared memory
their memories of them.
(30:29):
I think that that can be reallymeaningful, also.
Yeah, I love that.
SPEAKER_03 (30:35):
I think one other thing that's come up for me in
my work, too, that kind ofechoes what you're saying,
Mindy, is you never reallyunderstand the relationship that
people have with their pets.
And when I'm in a situation, andfor me, most of these families
that I'm assisting, this is thefirst time I've met them.
So I'm walking in, they don'tknow me, but the amount that
(30:55):
people will open up and share isso beautiful and touching.
I've had people share with methat this happened a few months
ago.
This um young woman, she'sprobably in her early 30s.
The dog that I was helpingtransition had literally, she
had tried to commit suicide, andthis dog had broken through a
window and gotten help.
(31:17):
Like she was like, I wouldphysically not be here if it
were not for him.
People that have lost theirspouses or one of their
children, and like that is thedog that connected or the cat
that connected them.
It's like their last piece ofthem.
It's like reliving the grief ofthat other loss all over again.
And so just knowing that comingin with like compassion and
(31:40):
understanding, and maybe if youcan't understand, even if you
don't view pets in maybe thesame way that the three of us
and a lot of us do, just knowingthat the support that they
provide to their humans isimmeasurable.
It truly can be.
SPEAKER_01 (31:55):
I know for I have not personally experienced the
loss of my own dog other than uhwhen I was a child.
And I think this loss will be,and that was devastating, but I
think this loss, when it happensin 35 years, he's 16 right now,
um, will be profound.
(32:18):
And I'm trying to prepare myselfbecause yeah, as you were
talking, you know, I for me, mydog is my I call him my soul
guide.
I mean, he came into my and I'mgonna get emotional talking
about he came into my life andjust really changed it for the
better.
And he has really been there andbeen kind of my rock and guided
(32:38):
me, and I've guided him and he'shelped me build my business.
I mean, he's he's he's you know,he's taught me about dogs and
I've taught him to be, he'staught me to be to feel
comfortable and safe arounddogs, and I've taught him to be
comfortable and safe aroundhumans.
I mean, we just have thisincredible bond and and I don't
know if it makes sense toanybody else, but it makes sense
(33:00):
to me.
So, and that's I think whatpeople have to respect and have
to understand about people'sconnections with their animals.
SPEAKER_03 (33:08):
So definitely.
And I think the other thing,Mindy, that I would love for you
to share too is you know, I likeCharlotte, my dog is older and
I'm constantly trying to preparemyself as much as I can.
So, what are some things thatpeople can do, you know, as
their pets are entering into astate of terminal illness or
(33:30):
even as they get older, like howcan we prepare ourselves?
Almost like a pre-bereavementsort of support.
SPEAKER_00 (33:38):
Yeah.
I started asking myself thatquestion too a couple years
before we um both of our dogsdied, or older, our senior.
We have two younger dogs now.
But um, I think from anemotional standpoint, I don't
know that we can prepareourselves.
And you know, it it's at leastfrom what I have found in in
(33:59):
just you know, conversationswith other people, it's really
hard to know exactly how you'regoing to meet that moment until
you are there.
And then that grief takes a lifeof its own.
But I think that when we knowour pets are um, you know, have
a terminal illness, we know ourtime is limited with them.
(34:22):
I think one of the sweetestthings that we can do is just
offer them our genuine presenceand really spend as much quality
time as we can with them.
I remember when um Ellie wasgetting older and she was uh a
really feisty Kennishnauserterrier mick, like feisty, and
(34:45):
as she got floated.
I mean, there's like a millionstories I could tell you about
this dog.
I was at the vet with her allthe time.
She was always getting intoscrapes and trouble, and um, but
she was so much fun.
She was she was just the likethe greatest dog.
And um she slowed down a lotthough.
She started to lose her hearing,and I could tell she started to
(35:09):
get a touch of dementia and havephysical issues um more and more
that were slowing her down.
And so her quality of life wasstill pretty good.
We kept good tabs on that.
But in the last few months ofher life, one of the things that
I would do, because I'm theearly riser in our family, and
she couldn't get up the stairsanymore to come upstairs and
(35:32):
sleep next to our bed.
And so we let her sleep on a dogbed downstairs so she could get
in and out.
The dog door was um on the firstfloor.
And so I would get up early inthe morning and come downstairs
and make coffee, and then um wehad a little couch next to our
fireplace.
I would turn on the fireplaceand just kind of do my morning
(35:54):
quiet reading and meditationright there.
And I would just have, she wouldlay on my lap or next to me for
that hour.
And it was really precious timethat I will always carry with
me.
So I think anything we can dolike that, you know, maybe it's
taking your um animal, maybeit's taking your dog on walks in
(36:17):
their favorite spots if they'restill able to do that, or you
know, sharing their favoritefoods, but just spending that
quality time with them, I thinkis one of the greatest gifts we
can give them and ourselves.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_03 (36:34):
And then I know one thing I hear a lot of people
expressing is guilt.
I should have done more, I wishI would have known sooner.
And then actually, with theexample you were just giving,
you know, for those that maybecan't be as flexible with their
schedules or their life.
Right.
I guess just acknowledging thefact that doing your best is
(36:56):
good enough.
That's one of the things I sharea lot.
But yeah, is are there any otherkind of words of wisdom or
anything you would have forpeople in that position that
maybe are really having trouble,you know, working through the
stages of guilt?
I feel like, or stages of grief,excuse me.
I feel like guilt and anger areat least some of the two that
I've seen people really have ahard time moving through
(37:18):
sometimes.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (37:21):
Yeah.
I think that guilt is probablythe most common emotion.
And even though I felt like wedid, you know, everything we
could for our two dogs, I stillfelt guilt, you know, like, oh,
you know, um, I felt guilt thatthey had to suffer at all, you
know, at the end of their life,even though it was fairly
(37:41):
minimal.
And I think that um we just wantto do, we don't want our pets to
suffer.
And so there's always, to me, itseems like people always
struggle with that question.
Um, since rarely don't I I don'toften hear of people saying that
(38:01):
their pets died in their sleep.
Usually the choice, they have tomake the choice to euthanize
them.
Um, and there's that strugglingwith that, those questions of
did I do it too soon or did Iwait too long?
And I think normalizing that forpeople and saying guilt is
normal, and this is somethingthat almost, you know, that most
(38:24):
people struggle with.
And you did the best that youcould reminding people of that.
And I think reminding ourselves,like I, you know, I had to
remind myself of that and reallyoffer myself a lot of compassion
and say, you know, sure, inhindsight, you might have done
(38:45):
this differently or that, but inthe moment, um, I think we are
all showing up and doing the thebest that we can for our pets.
They give us so much, and we'retrying to do the best we can to
care for them.
Remembering that, remindingourselves of that, um offering
(39:06):
ourselves compassion, you know,around the choices that we've
made can be really helpfultrying to suspend that judgment
as much as we can.
And one thing, um, like one ofthe cards in my deck um is has a
picture of a dog on it.
And it it's called the the titleof it is what would they say?
(39:27):
And um it's really about tuningin and when you're having a
difficult moment saying, Whatwould, you know, what would you
if your pet could speak to youlike from you know, from beyond,
from from wherever they are.
I love that.
Yeah, spirit speaking to you,what would they say?
(39:48):
What would they say?
And that can often a lot oftimes when I ask people that,
you know, there are tears andthey'll say, Oh my gosh, they'll
say, My God's telling me liketo.
Stopping so hard on myself, orthat it's okay.
They know that you know, theyknow you they know I loved them
and they know that um I wasdoing the best I could.
(40:11):
So sometimes just like tuning inand um or even asking yourself,
like uh when you're having adifficult moment, like um, if
this was my best friend, whatwould I say to them?
Right?
That can be really helpfulbecause it can be so hard on
ourselves.
And so just trying to take astep back and offer ourselves a
(40:35):
little compassion and kindnesscan be helpful in those moments
when we're working with theguilt.
And um, and yeah, I think angeris so common also because we
it's like I think we're angrybecause we want our pets to live
long, like we want them to livelonger.
They, you know, unfortunately,and we know this when we adopt
(40:57):
them or bring them into ourlives that their lifespans are
shorter.
But I think so often we getangry because we're frustrated
they didn't live as long as wewanted them to, or there's
different, there's so manydifferent reasons, but that can
be common.
And then also maybe we could beangry if um, you know, I had I
(41:18):
had a client earlier this yearwho uh had to go through a very
difficult situation and usebehavioral euthanasia.
SPEAKER_01 (41:27):
Their dog was quite a tough one, yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (41:30):
And there was a lot of anger there too, just anger
about around the situation andthat they had to say goodbye,
you know, too soon to thisanimal that had also been, you
know, in many um ways veryloving, but then also had
displayed some pretty aggressivebehavior towards young children.
(41:53):
So you know, I think anger cantake different forms and yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (41:59):
It's a it's a I think that one's that one's much
yeah, and that one's complicatedbecause you you feel the guilt
of of not just your pet beingsick, but having to make a
choice that you you somehowyou've not done enough because
somehow you couldn't fix theissue, even if you've called in
a trainer, even if you've donebehavior modification, even if
you've done all these sorts ofthings.
(42:20):
So that one, that one getsreally, really tough.
It's a tough, tough choice.
Earlier on, you just you broughtup um embracing, you brought up
gratitude, and and I wanted totalk a little bit more about how
we can embrace gratitude in thegrieving process.
And by that, did you mean do youmean, you know, like being
(42:40):
grateful for the pet that we thetime that we had with our pet,
or how do we embrace gratitudewhen we're feeling so
overwhelming, such overwhelminggrief and and and probably a
little bit of sometimesdepending on the situation, you
know?
Just deep, deep sadness anddisp, I don't want to say
despair, but some people, youknow, it might be really, really
traumatic for so how do we findthose moments of gratitude in
(43:01):
during that time?
SPEAKER_00 (43:01):
Yeah, and they might just be like little glimmers of
gratitude, right?
Um, I get it.
I just had someone the other daysaid, I'm really having a hard
time feeling grateful right now.
And uh yeah, I'm like, well, Idon't, I don't think you you
don't have to force it, but umright, at least for I'll share
(43:22):
my experience and what I seeoften being helpful to people.
And yes, for me, in thebeginning of my grieving
process, it was helpful for meto recall everything I was
grateful for about the momentsthat I had shared with my pet,
everything that they brought tomy life, um, the journey that we
had shared together.
(43:43):
And so often I was talking abouttaking those walks.
And when I would take walks, Iwould really like I called them
my gratitude, you know, walks.
And I would really try and callto mind um those things that I
felt grateful for, justrecalling them, um, bringing
that into my experience as well,um, as the profound, you know,
(44:06):
sadness that that was there.
Um gratitude, it could take theform of maybe sharing your
gratitude, right?
So um maybe they're yourveterinarian or the pet hospice
who helped you at the end ofyour pet's life.
It might be writing a thank youletter to them.
(44:28):
Or I remember being at least andtaking them into our vet clinic
um with a little note of thanks.
And that was really it wasmeaningful to me.
And of course, they you knowthey appreciated that.
And um, or appreciating, youknow, gratitude to other people
that cared for your animal,maybe it was a groomer, pet
(44:52):
sitters, other people, thatcould be one way of of um of
bringing gratitude into thegrieving process.
And I will often say, if it'shard for you to say, um, like
I'm uh, you know, uh we oftentalk about keeping a gratitude
journal or you know,acknowledging what you feel
(45:13):
grateful for.
And if that just feels like, oh,I just I can't think of
anything, you could use the thephrase um I heard this recently
and I like this.
I have.
So I have food in myrefrigerator, I have people in
(45:35):
my life who care.
I have um, you know, I I have aroof over my head and a warm bed
to sleep in.
Like I have, you know, what arethe things acknowledging, um,
and really that's a way ofacknowledging um the presence of
you know, kind of the the giftsin our lives that we often take
(45:56):
for granted.
Um, but that's another way.
Yeah, and I just find that in interms of like the how it can be
helpful, it's that our minds areare wired to um kind of stick
more to the negative, right?
From a neurobiologicalperspective.
SPEAKER_01 (46:18):
Like why is that?
SPEAKER_00 (46:20):
Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (46:21):
I mean, it's that's a whole other podcast episode.
Like, why is that?
It's so tough to turn thataround sometimes.
SPEAKER_00 (46:28):
Rick, well, and I first heard this.
Rick Hansen is aneuropsychologist, and he this
has always stayed with me.
He said our brains are likeTeflon to the positive and
Velcro to the negative.
And we tend to, you know, yes,the negative things stick more,
(46:48):
and it's from an evolutionaryperspective, it's about
survival, but we don't need thatanymore.
Um, we're not living in an agewhere like we're tigers are
gonna eat us, but our mindsstill tend to glom onto the
negative.
So um, especially when we'regrieving and we're in that place
of like you were saying,despair, deep heartache, um, it
(47:10):
can be helpful to kind ofbalance, help balance that out a
bit with a practice likegratitude that helps us remember
there are things in our lifethat um that are going well,
also.
SPEAKER_03 (47:22):
I think one thing too that I've seen really touch
others and even those that areinvolving themselves in it is if
you maybe can't find a way to begrateful in that moment, provide
some sort of act of service tosomeone.
So, one thing in my community iswhen one of us loses one of our
(47:42):
beloved pets, we will usuallydonate to a cause that either
has something to do with thatpet in particular, like a
breed-specific rescue or ashelter near them, or just some
way of giving back, or we'llphysically actually go do
something together.
Um, and I found that that'sreally, you know, it's always
very emotional, but it'ssomething that we can all
(48:04):
remember and just know that, youknow, there's a community of
people supporting you, or justif you're one person that's
going and spending time in ashelter where, you know, they're
so in need of assistance rightnow, that I feel like if our
pets could have an input forwhat we would be doing, it's
spreading that love elsewhere.
And that doesn't necessarilymean bringing a new, a new
little one into your life rightaway, because that I know is a a
(48:27):
very challenging considerationfor a lot of people.
And I always tell people, you'llknow when you're ready.
Or the other thing that I havefound is I feel like a lot of
times our pets will send us theindividual when we're ready for
it.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I love that.
Yeah.
So, Mindy, the the way that Imet you, and one thing that I
(48:50):
would love to talk about furtheris the deck itself because it is
such a beautiful offering.
And I'd love for you to talk alittle bit more about how people
can utilize it, because I thinkmost people, when they see it,
would think of it as being, youknow, something to use perhaps
after the loss to help with thatpost-loss bereavement and grief.
(49:13):
But are there other ways thatpeople could utilize that, the
tool that you're providing themand almost like in preparation
or just to help navigate?
SPEAKER_00 (49:25):
Yeah.
Well, I think, you know, whenyou mentioned earlier the term
anticipatory grief, and that Ithink that the minute we know
our pets have a terminal illnessor are near the end of our life,
we begin to grieve.
And uh, and so that griefdoesn't begin when they die,
it's going on beforehand.
(49:46):
So the deck can, I think thatthe tools and the practices and
just the a lot of the remindersin um that are in the deck can
be helpful as you're preparingum for that time um when your
pet dies.
And and you know, one thing thatI've heard a couple of people
(50:09):
say is that they started workingwith it a few months beforehand,
and that then when the timecame, they felt like it actually
had given them some some toolsthat were really helpful to have
in that moment and in thoseweeks after their pet's death
when they were going through umthat that time of more acute
(50:30):
grief.
So I think it can be helpful preloss, and of course, after the
loss of a pet.
In fact, I had, as I wascreating it, I made these
prototype decks.
So I would take the artwork umand I would I would literally
like cut and paste the messagesand put it on the back and make
(50:51):
these decks and send that topeople so that they could use
that and then give me feedback.
And um, so it was a win-win,right?
They got to use it and have thebenefit of using it, but then
they also would give me feedbackand um and I have one woman
who's used it for almost threeyears and says that she still
(51:14):
draws a card because she'sstill, um, even though she just
adopted a new dog recently, um,you know, she waited for quite
some time.
And but she said, I still am,you know, I'm still grieving the
loss of um my previous dog.
And it's really helpful.
It's part of my ritual to draw acard each day.
(51:36):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (51:37):
I love that.
SPEAKER_03 (51:38):
I think it is going back to mindfulness too.
I love it.
Because so much of what's in thedeck, I mean, I feel like it can
be applied outside of even thespecific purpose for which you
created it.
SPEAKER_00 (51:52):
Yeah, I had one Betsy say that um they um one of
the things that they do is intheir weekly staff meeting, they
draw a card because they like totalk about self-care.
And so they said, you know, eachweek we um take one card and
then we talk about that in ourstaff meeting.
So it's really, it's I lovehearing about all the different
(52:13):
ways that it's being used.
Um, and people will say, youknow, the messages in here um
can apply to really any type ofloss.
And many of them can.
There's a lot that are, youknow, that are that have that
are more specific to petsbecause that's the the intent of
(52:34):
this, you know, of this healingtool that I created, but they're
also applicable to grief andloss in general.
Yeah.
So some people that are grievinghumans that they've lost or
going through other types oflosses find that it's helpful in
helping um them on those healingjourneys as well.
SPEAKER_01 (52:52):
And for those that are listening, can we be a
little technical?
What so how do we use so it'sit's a it's a deck of car of
cards that you created for griefand and bereavement.
And do we pull one daily too?
Do we pull one daily or just aswe feel inspired to do so, just
(53:13):
to remind us of gratitude or howwhat exactly?
SPEAKER_00 (53:17):
Well, my recommendation, and there's a
little card in the deck that umthat offers guidance in terms of
how I um when people use it, isto just close your eyes and
think of the pet you've lost anddraw a card each day.
And if it resonates, that'sgreat.
If it doesn't, you can put itback and pull another one until
(53:38):
you pull one that does feelappropriate for for whatever um,
you know, your your um kind ofum the place that you're in that
day.
And so some people tell me thatthey sit down and they read all
of these cards when they get theday.
And then they will just pull outa card or two that feels like
(54:02):
most helpful to them that day orthat week.
Um and yeah, it's so there's noright or wrong way to use it.
Yeah.
Yeah.
There's just no right or wrongway to use it.
Those are that was myrecommendation.
And then I always say to people,use it in the way that serves
you best.
(54:22):
There's 52 different messages.
And the reason I included somany was because we all grieve
differently.
And so I wanted to people um, orto offer people a variety of
different coping strategies,tools, practices that um that
they can use.
And then there are alsodifferent ways that you can um
(54:44):
ideas for honoring your pet'smemory, and um, and then
reminders, just reminders, kindof validations, like that, you
know, we all grieve in our owntimeline.
There's no right or wrong way togrieve.
Um there's a message calledhonoring your grief.
We talked about the, you know,that at the very beginning.
(55:05):
Yeah.
Just taking time, allowingyourself the time that you need
to grieve.
Yeah.
unknown (55:10):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_03 (55:11):
And kind of following up on that, I love the
idea of honoring them after.
So, of course, a part of mypractice is the end-of-life
transitions.
But I think one thing that a lotof people don't consider and
that I try to help guide as muchas I can, is after they're gone,
besides, you know, a lot of thethings we've talked about, what
(55:32):
are other ways that we can honorthem, even physically?
So I know this is a littletechnical, but it's of course
something that we have toconsider is with their remains,
what do we do?
And everyone has a verydifferent feeling about that.
But some of the things I justwanted to mention that I've seen
that are absolutely beautiful isthere are cremation jewelry,
(55:55):
there are physical, I've seenplanters with a succulent and
then the remains go in part ofit.
I mean, it's going somewherethat was meaningful to you and
spreading some of the remainsand having some sort of small
ceremony.
There's just so many ways toreally kind of think outside the
box.
And I will say Etsy is a reallygreat resource when it comes to
(56:16):
jewelry or any sort of physicalkeepsake.
They there are so many beautifulartisans on there that are doing
great things to honor bothhumans but also pets.
Can we take advantage of thoseas well?
SPEAKER_00 (56:30):
Yeah, Etsy's a great place.
Um, I love all those ideas.
One of the things I did, um I'llshare this.
Like a I think a photo collagecan be really helpful too.
Um that you and you can make ityourself, or you could do it
like on a site like Snapfish orum an online site, but that can
(56:51):
be really sweet.
Yeah, doing something though,right?
It's such a uh it's a way tohonor their memory.
And then it's also a way it'ssomething that um I think in our
in our culture we have so manyrituals um and different
ceremonies that to honor the theloss of a human loved one, but
(57:14):
not so many for pets.
So we get to we get to create.
Yeah, we get to create our own,be creative.
I love that.
And Lindsay, you probably get tohear so many different ideas
from people.
SPEAKER_03 (57:26):
Yeah, I really do.
And some of the ceremonies I'vewatched, I mean, are
breathtaking.
Like fresh flowers, I mean,people playing sound bowls,
gongs, chanting, sharing, youknow, for those that are
religious or spiritual, sharingpassages.
And yeah, it's really it's it'sbeen a very privileged
(57:49):
experience to be able to assistfamilies and and their furry
loved ones, but just being ableto experience that much love.
SPEAKER_01 (57:59):
Well, you guys, I so appreciate this conversation.
Um, and Dr.
Lindsay, thank you for askingsuch wonderful questions.
And thank you for joining me.
And Mindy, thank you so much forall the beautiful words that you
brought to the table.
I really enjoyed thisconversation.
Thank you both so much.
Thank you, Charlotte.
(58:21):
Thank you so much for listeningto this episode of the Baru
podcast, and a special thank youto Dr.
Lindsay Wendt for joining me asmy special co-host today.
I hope to have her back formore.
I've put links in the show notesfor Mindy's offerings.
And if you have a story of KingEine Companionship that you'd
like to share with me orquestion or even a comment, I
would love to hear from you.
(58:42):
You can email me, Charlotte, atthebaroo.com.
And don't forget to follow us onInstagram at BaruPodcast.
All right, you guys, let's chatin.
Dogs make the best companions for humans.
This podcast aims to help makehumans better companions for
their dogs.
Welcome to the Baruch Podcast, amodern lifestyle podcast for
dogs and their people.
I'm your host, Charlotte Bain.
I've been caring for otherpeople's dogs for more than 15
(00:21):
years.
And while I've learned a lot inmy career, I definitely don't
know it all.
So I've collected anever-evolving roster of amazing
dog people.
And I learn new things from themall the time.
Thank you so much for joining mefor this episode of the Baruch
(00:43):
Podcast.
Today we are doing something alittle different.
Dr.
Lindsay Wendt is joining me asmy special guest co-host, and we
are chatting with MindyMeyering, a licensed therapist,
certified life coach, and theauthor and creator of the
Rainbow Bridge Pet Loss Deck,which is a healing tool that
helps support people after theheartbreaking loss of a pet.
(01:04):
And as we head into theholidays, we thought it was
important to continue tonormalize these conversations
around pet loss.
The holidays can be reallytriggering for those who have
experienced a loss.
And Dr.
Lindsay, I can even share astory with you and to those that
are listening.
Yesterday was Thanksgiving, andI don't know, I know you know
(01:25):
Dr.
Lindsay, but I don't know ifI've talked about it on the
podcast.
Recently, in August, I lost myGolden Retriever client who I
had been caring for since he wasseven months old.
He was a little over 15 when hepassed, and I'm really close
with his family and I've knownthem forever.
And they do have another dog, soI'm there a lot.
(01:46):
But yesterday I went over forThanksgiving and I walked in and
the whole family was there, andI immediately felt this really
deep sense of sadness and lossover Bosco, the golden
retriever.
All the holidays that we hadwith him begging for food and he
would be breathing heavily atthe dinner table, they all kind
(02:08):
of like flash before me.
And I felt this really deepsadness.
And I love that dog dearly, asif he was my own dog.
I know that he's not my own dog,and it just really made me think
about the time that I have leftwith chance and cherish those
moments even more than I doalready.
And I found myself taking extraphotos of Chance during
(02:31):
Thanksgiving dinner.
It was probably annoyingeverybody at the table, but I
couldn't stop making photos ofhim.
So it kind of just really speaksto those moments when grief can
really just hit when you aren'texpecting it, right?
SPEAKER_03 (02:47):
Thank you so much for your vulnerability and
sharing your experience becauseI know I can empathize so much
with your story, both as a dogmom and professionally.
As a veterinarian, I offer manydifferent types of support to
pets and their families, but acornerstone and true labor of
love of my practice for the last10 years has been aiding in
at-home end of life transitions,which many people often refer to
(03:10):
as euthanasia.
I know that for many of us, it'sone of the most challenging
moments that we have to face inour adult lives, but
unfortunately, it's also asituation that most of us as pet
parents will have to encounterat some point.
So I really want to offer toolsto support those that are facing
these difficult choices, whetherit's now or in the future, and
(03:32):
especially during this time ofyear.
This topic is also so importantfor anyone that's remembering
their beloved animal companionswho are no longer with us.
There are so many aspects of theholidays, you know, whether it's
traditions or, you know, maybeeven stress about being around
family or certain things thatreally helps to just illustrate
(03:53):
and highlight how important theyare to us as a support system
and a source of unconditionallove.
So I am really honored to behere to help support everyone
and, like you said, normalizethese conversations because
they're important.
SPEAKER_01 (04:07):
It's so true.
I was not expecting to carrythose feelings through
Thanksgiving, through dinner,and even into today, I'm still
thinking about I'm stillthinking about them.
Well, thank you for joining me.
And let's just jump into thechat.
Sounds good.
Well, thanks you guys forjumping on.
(04:29):
And Lindsay, this is veryexciting.
You are my, this is the firsttime we're co-hosting a podcast
episode together.
So I am thrilled to have you onas my co-host.
I think you can bring so muchvalue to these conversations.
So thank you so much for doingthis.
Um, I am I'm happy to have bothof you on.
I think as we head into theholidays, it's we can never talk
(04:50):
about pet loss too much.
We can never normalizeconversations around grief and
around the loss of a beloved pettoo much.
So I think it's really importantthat we're doing this now.
That probably the hardest partof being a pet parent, right, is
the loss of your beloved pet.
So so first, Dr.
Lindsay, thank you so much forjoining.
(05:12):
Um, I think you, as I said,mentioned, you bring a lot of
value to these conversations.
Do you want for those who uhyou've been on the podcast
before, we talked about all thegreat ways that we can support
um, all the great ways that youholistically support our pets.
And you um that's something thatwe just touched on briefly is
(05:32):
that you do offer end of lifecare for pets.
So you have a firsthandexperience working with families
during that difficult time.
So would you like to just likereintroduce yourself a little
bit to the people that arelistening and talk about?
(05:52):
I would love to.
SPEAKER_03 (05:53):
Okay, great.
Yeah.
So my name is Dr.
Lindsay Wendt.
I am a practitioner in the LosAngeles, Southern California
area.
And as I've evolved through mycareer, actually, the one thing
that I've started from thebeginning and maintained with a
deep passion and just trueresonance with is end-of-life
(06:13):
transitioning.
So as my practice has evolvedfrom conventional to
integrative, functional,holistic, whatever term you want
to give it, end-of-life care hasreally been by my side and has
also evolved as I've obtainednew tools.
So as Charlotte mentioned, thatis still something I, you know,
I offer to families on a weeklybasis.
(06:35):
So every week I help at least,you know, a handful of families,
but you know, at certain timesof the year, like the holidays,
unfortunately, we end up havingto make some of those decisions
far more often than we'd liketo.
So I really do just try to beavailable.
And um, I think one thing, andthe reason I'm so excited to
have Mindy on here is one thingI've really come to realize is
(06:56):
how important it is, it is forus to not only support our pets,
but to support the humancounterparts in the family.
And I think as a veterinarian,that's not something that I was
taught or prepared really how todo properly.
So it's something that I'm I'mlucky that intuitively I've been
able to pick up some of thoseskills, but it's always
something that's evolving.
I think it's always somethingthat as a profession we need to
(07:16):
focus on because it's far toooften that we focus on it as a
procedure and not as what ittruly is, which is truly it's a
transition for the entirefamily.
SPEAKER_01 (07:26):
Right.
During the holidays, it seemslike there are tougher decisions
that have to be made when itcomes to end-of-life care.
Are you seeing do you see that,Dr.
Lindsay, that it's more to putit bluntly, people have to make
that choice during the holidayseason more often than during
(07:48):
the rest of the year.
Do you see that as somethingthat's common?
SPEAKER_03 (07:52):
I do.
And what's actually veryinteresting is I would say that
the need for that service ispretty constant throughout the
year.
But what's actually veryinteresting is during the
holidays, I see a decreaseactually initially.
Interesting.
I would say around October,there's less families seeking
out assistance.
Okay.
And then suddenly aroundmid-November to the end of
(08:16):
December, there's an increase.
And I think from my perspective,what's happening is as the
holidays come near, I thinkthere's a lot of families that
are really, really trying to doeverything they can to keep
their pets just for one moreThanksgiving, you know, one more
holiday celebration.
And then they get into aposition where they no longer
have that choice.
And then it what I've found isit becomes a lot more rushed
(08:38):
during the holidays, whichbreaks my heart because they
sometimes don't have theopportunity to have someone come
into their home.
And that's probably something Ishould have specified.
The transitions that Ifacilitate are all in home.
So I allow our, you know, ourbeloved companions to be where
they're comfortable, surroundedby family, having the
environment controlled.
And, you know, that is such agift.
(09:00):
And I feel like our job as theirguardians and as their
companions is to make everysingle step of their life as
easy as possible.
SPEAKER_02 (09:08):
Right.
SPEAKER_03 (09:08):
And that end transition is sometimes, you
know, it's the best, it's thebest gift that we can give them
when they're in a position wherewe don't see them being able to
improve and recover fromwhatever, you know, illness is
affecting them.
But you are right, there isdefinitely an increased demand
and it often becomes urgent,which is hard.
So I really encourage people totry to take a step back, focus
(09:31):
on quality of life assessment,and don't let that be a rush
decision just simply because ofthe time of year, which I
understand that's very human,but I just don't ever want
people to not have theopportunity to be present at all
because I've seen that happentoo.
People will leave for theholidays and then they end up
not being able to make it backto say goodbye, which is
heartbreaking.
SPEAKER_01 (09:52):
Absolutely.
One of the things that youreally provide is rituals around
end of life, which I find sobeautiful because I think we
often we do that for usually.
Um, you know, many culturesobviously have their own rituals
around death and and but I it'snot something that's common, I
(10:13):
don't think.
And and I really think thatthat's an important part of
allowing people to grieve and toheal, right?
Um do you want to do you want tospeak a little bit on that?
SPEAKER_03 (10:29):
I'd love to, and I think for that, you know, one of
the beautiful things about beinga veterinarian is what my
clients have taught me.
SPEAKER_01 (10:36):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_03 (10:37):
And I think if anything, going through a more
conventional viewpoint of end oflife transitioning, because back
then I did call it euthanasia,which I know is the term for it,
but I just feel likesentimentally it doesn't feel
right for me to term it in thatway on a regular basis anymore.
But I witness families creatingbeautiful ceremonies, whether
they were religious, spiritual,you know, something personal.
(10:58):
And that really inspired me towant to offer that to people as
I, you know, acquired more toolsin my toolbox.
So I'm a sound therapist, I'm aReiki practitioner, you know, I
love and have a very strongrelationship with crystals, and
I've seen the response thatanimals have to crystals,
essential oils, acupunctures.
So there are so many options tocreate a peaceful environment,
(11:21):
not only for our pets, but alsofor us.
Because I think one thing thatpeople fail to realize, and I
know Mindy will speak to this,is the energetic connection we
have with our animals is sostrong.
And I have witnessed on so manyoccasions, you know, obviously
we're going through our owngrief and our own emotions, but
we have to serve as a groundingspace for our pets to be able to
(11:44):
have a smooth transition.
And it's not, you know, notlistening to your feelings or,
you know, not being able toprocess them.
It's just having them have asmooth transition be the focus
and holding that space, whetherthat's breath work, something I
have not been trained in, butI've kind of picked up along the
way to help some of my clientsthat were really struggling as
we went through it.
(12:04):
So there's so many beautifulways, you know, having people
come and speak and give foodofferings, share a story.
There's just so many ways tohonor them.
SPEAKER_01 (12:14):
I love that.
Um, Mindy, uh, do you find umhi?
Do you want to introduceyourself a little bit um and
tell us a little bit about whatyou do and how you support pet
parents going through.
SPEAKER_00 (12:27):
Um my name is Mindy Meiring, and by training, I'm a
licensed therapist.
And um for the last 15 years orso, I've been doing um my work
has been more in the realm ofcoaching and teaching
mindfulness, writing.
And I also um after the loss,the first dog that um I lost in
(12:52):
2017, um started writing a bookabout pet loss and became really
interested in, I had supportedlots of humans in their um grief
as they went through significantlosses and life transitions.
But um after experiencing thatand how deep the grief was, I
really wanted to uh supportother pet parents who were
(13:17):
experiencing that kind of griefand loss.
And um and so I started Istarted writing a book, and the
book evolved into um a projectthat um actually I think is more
suited to uh to people who aregoing through the grieving
(13:39):
process because when we'regrieving, our attention span is
often so limited, right?
We're so grief can be sodestabilizing.
And so I took um a lot of whatI'd written and I put it into a
deck called the Rainbow BridgePet Loss Deck, and it's um I
(14:01):
love that 52 Ways to Heal theHeartache of Losing a Beloved
Pet is what it's called.
But then we experienced the lossof our other dog, Ellie, um, two
years later.
And she was my first dog.
It was it was a really um, as Ithink probably so many of us
who've experienced that, youknow, that first pet that we
(14:23):
had, right, when we lost them.
It's a really um whether we hadthem for a short time or like
Elia had her for 15 years, it'sjust uh so heartbreaking and
painful.
And so I picked up my book,dusted it off, and it and it
turned into this deck.
During that time, um, did sometraining and became certified as
(14:44):
a pet loss and grief specialistwith the Association of Pet Loss
and Brevement.
And really, I I feel like somuch of my work now and where my
heart is is in normalizing andvalidating pet grief in our
culture and just offering um,you know, people who are
grieving the loss of a pet waysto work with their grief.
(15:09):
Um it's it's such a painfulloss.
So many people say that, youknow, sometimes my clients will
come in and it's almost likethey they say it under their
breath, like they they're a bitembarrassed, uh, you know, but
it was harder when I lost my dogor my cat than when I lost, you
know, and then they'll name ahuman level.
And I'll say, it's okay.
(15:29):
I, you know, I can't tell youhow often I hear that.
Um and just normalizing becausethese, you know, our our pets
are they're members of ourfamily.
They're not just like family,they are, you know, in my
opinion.
So yeah, that's that's kind ofwhere my work um has really the
direction that my work hastaken.
SPEAKER_01 (15:50):
Yeah.
Why, why do you think peoplecarry shame or or a little bit
of embarrassment around the lossof their beloved pet, around or
sharing that loss with others?
They feel like they can't fully,they feel like they can't fully
share that loss with others, Ithink, in a way uh that they
can, you know, the loss of a ofa of a human family member or
(16:15):
something like that.
SPEAKER_00 (16:16):
Well, there's um, I think so many of us have
probably experienced that maybeperson who's not an animal lover
or who hasn't had pets who'vesaid, well, it's just a dog,
right?
It's just a cat, get anotherone.
And there is that um some peopledo have that viewpoint.
And so I think that can be partof it.
(16:38):
And also just in general, in ourculture, we aren't um great
about doing grief.
Yeah, we tend to run through it,want to skip over it, want to
get over it, move on.
And so I often will say topeople, this is a very uh deep
loss that you've experienced.
(16:59):
It's okay to take your time andto really let yourself grieve
this loss.
This is animal companion was asignificant part of your life.
You had a really, you know, youhad a special connection with
them, shared so much love withthem, shared so much life with
them.
It makes sense that we wouldgrieve their loss so deeply.
(17:20):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_03 (17:20):
Mindy, I have a question for you too.
One thing I've always wonderedis is there something to not
that our pets are our children,but for many of us, we provide
such a level of care to themalmost beyond what we even
extend to ourselves in somesituations.
Is there something, I guess,even like psychologically, along
(17:41):
with that?
It just because I hear that allthe time as well.
This was harder for me thanlosing my dad or my mom, or you
know, like a very, you know,large presence in their life.
And people do feel embarrassed.
And I say the same thing.
You I can't tell you how manytimes I hear that.
And usually what I present tothem is, you know, these are
beings that we share dailyexperiences with, and you're
(18:02):
providing care for them.
So being a caregiver, does thatat all play into perhaps why
it's so much more difficult tohave that loss versus maybe a
family member that of course welove them, but it's just a
different type of relationship.
unknown (18:16):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (18:16):
Yeah.
And I think, yes, I think that'sabsolutely part of it.
And also, if you I think that weall probably will be able to
relate to this, like the lovethat we share with our pets is
such a pure, uncomplicated love.
They really don't expect a lotfrom us.
In fact, you know, I can thinkabout times when I've um like,
(18:38):
I'll trip over my dog, Iobviously accidentally, or
you'll do something.
And the next thing I know,they're just sitting there
wagging their tail at me.
Um, you know, like I love you somuch.
I mean, they're so forgiving andjust that love is so
uncomplicated, I think, comparedto, you know, our our human
(19:02):
relationships, which are, Ithink, you know, for so many of
us, we have we have like a lotof us have very, you know, a lot
of people in our lives that welove, but human relationships
can just be more complicated, alittle bit more complex.
SPEAKER_01 (19:18):
They're there with us through our our hardest times
and our best times, and they aresupportive and unconditionally
loving us along the way.
I think is is probably one ofthe without judgment.
With some of our dogs may jumjudge us a little bit, but but
for the most part, withoutjudgment.
I think I have a few dogs on thecase.
SPEAKER_00 (19:39):
I was, you know, I was just thinking that could be
I was just thinking there'syeah, we don't, you know, so
often it's like they're notjudging us, they don't really
care about how much money wemake or, you know, all the
things sometimes that um humanstend to get caught up in, right?
And success, it's like theydon't, you know, they don't
really care.
(20:00):
They just like to snuggle andthey want their walk and their
treats and they like to be withus.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_03 (20:07):
Right.
Yeah.
So um for those of us that, youknow, we're approaching the
holidays, I think there's twodifferent perspectives.
One is there's a lot of us thataround this time it brings up a
lot of kind of a heavy reminderof those that we've lost.
And I think that's even more sotrue for pets.
I know one trend that I'venoticed that I think is so
(20:29):
beautiful is including pets inDia de los Muertos.
So I've seen a lot of peoplehonoring those that have been
lost.
And I, I mean, I've seen thesealtars where it's humans and
animals equally.
So, you know, because that'salmost the start of the season,
what are some tools that peoplecan use if they find themselves
(20:49):
feeling very heavy and, youknow, having, you know,
especially for people thatsuffer from mental health
issues, especially, like howwhat are some management tools
that they can use to preparethemselves for the heaviness of
the holidays?
SPEAKER_00 (21:04):
I love that question.
Um, first of all, I want to justcomment on something.
I someone recently sent me alink to this beautiful image and
post.
And I guess in uh Mexico beforethe Dios de los Muertos, there
is uh there's a day of the deadfor animals, specifically for
(21:26):
animals.
So I'm gonna do an altar for ourour the dogs that we didn't know
that here on that day.
Yeah, I'll see if I can findthat and and share that with
you.
But um I think it's so true theholidays can be such a heavy
time of year when we'veexperienced um the loss of a pet
or really any type ofsignificant loss.
(21:47):
And so one thing is I think thefirst thing that I often say to
people is, you know, rememberthat your grief matters.
And one of the cards in my deckis honor your grief.
And just remembering that it'sokay to take care of yourself,
to give yourself what you need,to let those tears flow when and
(22:11):
if they come.
And certainly um in those firstweeks and and months after the
loss, it can, you know, thetears can be frequent.
Um allowing those.
Um I think planning in time forself-care.
And sometimes that is likereally taking out your calendar
(22:34):
and saying, I am gonna schedulelike an hour or I'm gonna set
aside this time to um whateverit is for you that feels
nourishing.
I think self-care is so, youknow, looks different for for
each of us.
I know for me, after um, I hadlost most of our um, the loss of
both of our dogs, being innature was particularly healing
(22:58):
for me.
And so as much as I could, Iwould get outside and take long
walks.
Um I think you know, we're we'reuh having this conversation um
as Thanksgiving week here in theUS begins, and gratitude can be
such a huge uh support as we'regrieving.
(23:21):
And um I think sometimes we itit can, you know, as we're
grieving, there's that heavinessand that tendency to really get
caught up sometimes in ourgrief.
And I like to kind of think oflike two outstretched hands when
I'm thinking about grief andgratitude, that we can hold our
(23:42):
grief over here.
We don't have to go, you know,we don't have to push it down,
but we can also hold gratitudein our other hand and pay
attention to um things that aregoing well in our lives.
Or sometimes what I'll say topeople is maybe notice what kind
of support is showing up foryou.
SPEAKER_02 (24:04):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (24:05):
What kind of support?
Maybe a friend that's reachingout, or you know, maybe you have
a pet loss support group thatyou've been going to, or just
someone that cares that, youknow, is texting you to check in
and see how you're doing,noticing that, but noticing and
paying attention, it's really amindfulness practice, like
(24:27):
trying to pay attention towhat's going well and you know
what are things in my life thatI feel grateful for.
That can also be a support.
Um and then I another thing thatI think can be so helpful is to
think about how you can includeyour pet that you've lost into
(24:51):
either existing holidaytraditions and rituals or maybe
create new ones.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (24:59):
Um I love that.
SPEAKER_00 (25:01):
Yeah, it could be maybe creating an ornament with
their um, you know, theirphotograph and name that you
hang each year, or maybe youlight a candle each night during
the holiday season in theirmemory.
Um, there are different ways youcould you could create your
whatever.
I always say like whatever feelsmeaningful to you, and you know,
(25:23):
do that and think about how youmight incorporate that into your
holiday this year.
SPEAKER_01 (25:28):
Do you have any suggestions on how or any tools?
When we're when we head into theholidays, we're often faced with
lots of family members, we'reoften faced with you know a lot
of social times, and we may befeeling overwhelmed, we may be
feeling that deep grief duringthose times.
How do we how can we function umduring those those family
(25:53):
holiday times and and how can weask our friends to help us um
get through those timestogether?
Does that make sense?
SPEAKER_00 (26:04):
It makes perfect sense, and that's a great
question.
I think um one of the things youcan do is to plan ahead, to
think about what are thecommitments that I have or might
have, who will be there.
And do I have the bandwidth?
Do I really have the bandwidthand the energy to do that this
(26:28):
year?
Um there might be gatherings orthings that you say no to.
And I always kind of like I justyou know, hand people a
metaphorical uh permission slipand say, you have permission to
say no.
It's okay, you know, if youreally feel like it's it's gonna
be um too overwhelming or you'reyou're not up for it, it's okay
(26:51):
to say no to some things.
And the other thing that I thinkpeople can do is um, you know,
have conversations ahead of timewith loved ones, with their
family, with friends, and say, Iam really struggling right now.
I'm really, you know, I've justlost my pet.
(27:12):
I'm in the um throes of grief,and I'm really having a hard
time.
I don't know how I'm gonna feelwhen this dinner rolls around or
um this event, and I'd like tocome, but I just want to let you
know that I'm I may need to bowout if I'm not feeling well that
(27:34):
day.
So kind of giving yourselfpermission to change, to say no,
to change your mind.
And I think communicating withfriends and family can be really
helpful, letting them know justkind of where you're at um and
what you need.
And that kind of segues intowhat you're asking about how do
(27:56):
we support people who've lost apet?
And you know, I think one thingwe can do is just is acknowledge
the loss.
Say, I am, you know, I I can'timagine what you're going
through right now, right?
Because we we really, even ifwe've lost a pet, we haven't
been through the loss thatthey're experiencing.
(28:17):
We didn't, we weren't on thatjourney with the pet they've
lost.
Um, and we can just say, Ireally can't imagine what you're
going through right now.
Is there anything I can do tosupport you?
You know, letting them know I amhere, if you really mean that,
right?
So it's really important, likeif we offer to them be able to
(28:39):
follow through.
And you might even say, like,I'm available if you want to
text or if you want to call, oryou might say, you might even
think about specific things thatgiven what you know about that
person, they might um that mightbe helpful for them.
(28:59):
You might say, maybe if theyhave other pets, you might say,
would it be helpful if I cameand walked, you know, your other
dogs um this week just to giveyou a break?
Or would you like me to bringyou a meal, you know, and offer
things.
Um I think just acknowledging,you know, saying it makes sense.
(29:22):
It really makes sense.
Like if they um going back tothe earlier in our conversation,
you know, when some people say,Oh, it was just a dog, but it
wasn't, and just saying, youknow, I mean it makes sense that
uh you're grieving so deeply.
It really makes sense thatyou're struggling.
Like you had such a um, youknow, you had such a strong
(29:44):
connection with and you can nametheir pet.
Um, it just makes sense.
So, and saying the pet's name,if if you knew their pet, I
think it can also be reallylovely to um just to to say,
wow, you know, I I really caredfor or loved, you know, um I'm
(30:07):
just gonna use my dog's namethat I lost Ellie.
You could say I really I reallyloved and cared for Ellie too.
And and you know, I rememberthat one time when she and
sharing stories about them.
That was so meaningful, like tomy husband and I when people
sent us um notes after we'd lostour dogs and they shared memory
their memories of them.
(30:29):
I think that that can be reallymeaningful, also.
Yeah, I love that.
SPEAKER_03 (30:35):
I think one other thing that's come up for me in
my work, too, that kind ofechoes what you're saying,
Mindy, is you never reallyunderstand the relationship that
people have with their pets.
And when I'm in a situation, andfor me, most of these families
that I'm assisting, this is thefirst time I've met them.
So I'm walking in, they don'tknow me, but the amount that
(30:55):
people will open up and share isso beautiful and touching.
I've had people share with methat this happened a few months
ago.
This um young woman, she'sprobably in her early 30s.
The dog that I was helpingtransition had literally, she
had tried to commit suicide, andthis dog had broken through a
window and gotten help.
(31:17):
Like she was like, I wouldphysically not be here if it
were not for him.
People that have lost theirspouses or one of their
children, and like that is thedog that connected or the cat
that connected them.
It's like their last piece ofthem.
It's like reliving the grief ofthat other loss all over again.
And so just knowing that comingin with like compassion and
(31:40):
understanding, and maybe if youcan't understand, even if you
don't view pets in maybe thesame way that the three of us
and a lot of us do, just knowingthat the support that they
provide to their humans isimmeasurable.
It truly can be.
SPEAKER_01 (31:55):
I know for I have not personally experienced the
loss of my own dog other than uhwhen I was a child.
And I think this loss will be,and that was devastating, but I
think this loss, when it happensin 35 years, he's 16 right now,
um, will be profound.
(32:18):
And I'm trying to prepare myselfbecause yeah, as you were
talking, you know, I for me, mydog is my I call him my soul
guide.
I mean, he came into my and I'mgonna get emotional talking
about he came into my life andjust really changed it for the
better.
And he has really been there andbeen kind of my rock and guided
(32:38):
me, and I've guided him and he'shelped me build my business.
I mean, he's he's he's you know,he's taught me about dogs and
I've taught him to be, he'staught me to be to feel
comfortable and safe arounddogs, and I've taught him to be
comfortable and safe aroundhumans.
I mean, we just have thisincredible bond and and I don't
know if it makes sense toanybody else, but it makes sense
(33:00):
to me.
So, and that's I think whatpeople have to respect and have
to understand about people'sconnections with their animals.
SPEAKER_03 (33:08):
So definitely.
And I think the other thing,Mindy, that I would love for you
to share too is you know, I likeCharlotte, my dog is older and
I'm constantly trying to preparemyself as much as I can.
So, what are some things thatpeople can do, you know, as
their pets are entering into astate of terminal illness or
(33:30):
even as they get older, like howcan we prepare ourselves?
Almost like a pre-bereavementsort of support.
SPEAKER_00 (33:38):
Yeah.
I started asking myself thatquestion too a couple years
before we um both of our dogsdied, or older, our senior.
We have two younger dogs now.
But um, I think from anemotional standpoint, I don't
know that we can prepareourselves.
And you know, it it's at leastfrom what I have found in in
(33:59):
just you know, conversationswith other people, it's really
hard to know exactly how you'regoing to meet that moment until
you are there.
And then that grief takes a lifeof its own.
But I think that when we knowour pets are um, you know, have
a terminal illness, we know ourtime is limited with them.
(34:22):
I think one of the sweetestthings that we can do is just
offer them our genuine presenceand really spend as much quality
time as we can with them.
I remember when um Ellie wasgetting older and she was uh a
really feisty Kennishnauserterrier mick, like feisty, and
(34:45):
as she got floated.
I mean, there's like a millionstories I could tell you about
this dog.
I was at the vet with her allthe time.
She was always getting intoscrapes and trouble, and um, but
she was so much fun.
She was she was just the likethe greatest dog.
And um she slowed down a lotthough.
She started to lose her hearing,and I could tell she started to
(35:09):
get a touch of dementia and havephysical issues um more and more
that were slowing her down.
And so her quality of life wasstill pretty good.
We kept good tabs on that.
But in the last few months ofher life, one of the things that
I would do, because I'm theearly riser in our family, and
she couldn't get up the stairsanymore to come upstairs and
(35:32):
sleep next to our bed.
And so we let her sleep on a dogbed downstairs so she could get
in and out.
The dog door was um on the firstfloor.
And so I would get up early inthe morning and come downstairs
and make coffee, and then um wehad a little couch next to our
fireplace.
I would turn on the fireplaceand just kind of do my morning
(35:54):
quiet reading and meditationright there.
And I would just have, she wouldlay on my lap or next to me for
that hour.
And it was really precious timethat I will always carry with
me.
So I think anything we can dolike that, you know, maybe it's
taking your um animal, maybeit's taking your dog on walks in
(36:17):
their favorite spots if they'restill able to do that, or you
know, sharing their favoritefoods, but just spending that
quality time with them, I thinkis one of the greatest gifts we
can give them and ourselves.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_03 (36:34):
And then I know one thing I hear a lot of people
expressing is guilt.
I should have done more, I wishI would have known sooner.
And then actually, with theexample you were just giving,
you know, for those that maybecan't be as flexible with their
schedules or their life.
Right.
I guess just acknowledging thefact that doing your best is
(36:56):
good enough.
That's one of the things I sharea lot.
But yeah, is are there any otherkind of words of wisdom or
anything you would have forpeople in that position that
maybe are really having trouble,you know, working through the
stages of guilt?
I feel like, or stages of grief,excuse me.
I feel like guilt and anger areat least some of the two that
I've seen people really have ahard time moving through
(37:18):
sometimes.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (37:21):
Yeah.
I think that guilt is probablythe most common emotion.
And even though I felt like wedid, you know, everything we
could for our two dogs, I stillfelt guilt, you know, like, oh,
you know, um, I felt guilt thatthey had to suffer at all, you
know, at the end of their life,even though it was fairly
(37:41):
minimal.
And I think that um we just wantto do, we don't want our pets to
suffer.
And so there's always, to me, itseems like people always
struggle with that question.
Um, since rarely don't I I don'toften hear of people saying that
(38:01):
their pets died in their sleep.
Usually the choice, they have tomake the choice to euthanize
them.
Um, and there's that strugglingwith that, those questions of
did I do it too soon or did Iwait too long?
And I think normalizing that forpeople and saying guilt is
normal, and this is somethingthat almost, you know, that most
(38:24):
people struggle with.
And you did the best that youcould reminding people of that.
And I think reminding ourselves,like I, you know, I had to
remind myself of that and reallyoffer myself a lot of compassion
and say, you know, sure, inhindsight, you might have done
(38:45):
this differently or that, but inthe moment, um, I think we are
all showing up and doing the thebest that we can for our pets.
They give us so much, and we'retrying to do the best we can to
care for them.
Remembering that, remindingourselves of that, um offering
(39:06):
ourselves compassion, you know,around the choices that we've
made can be really helpfultrying to suspend that judgment
as much as we can.
And one thing, um, like one ofthe cards in my deck um is has a
picture of a dog on it.
And it it's called the the titleof it is what would they say?
(39:27):
And um it's really about tuningin and when you're having a
difficult moment saying, Whatwould, you know, what would you
if your pet could speak to youlike from you know, from beyond,
from from wherever they are.
I love that.
Yeah, spirit speaking to you,what would they say?
(39:48):
What would they say?
And that can often a lot oftimes when I ask people that,
you know, there are tears andthey'll say, Oh my gosh, they'll
say, My God's telling me liketo.
Stopping so hard on myself, orthat it's okay.
They know that you know, theyknow you they know I loved them
and they know that um I wasdoing the best I could.
(40:11):
So sometimes just like tuning inand um or even asking yourself,
like uh when you're having adifficult moment, like um, if
this was my best friend, whatwould I say to them?
Right?
That can be really helpfulbecause it can be so hard on
ourselves.
And so just trying to take astep back and offer ourselves a
(40:35):
little compassion and kindnesscan be helpful in those moments
when we're working with theguilt.
And um, and yeah, I think angeris so common also because we
it's like I think we're angrybecause we want our pets to live
long, like we want them to livelonger.
They, you know, unfortunately,and we know this when we adopt
(40:57):
them or bring them into ourlives that their lifespans are
shorter.
But I think so often we getangry because we're frustrated
they didn't live as long as wewanted them to, or there's
different, there's so manydifferent reasons, but that can
be common.
And then also maybe we could beangry if um, you know, I had I
(41:18):
had a client earlier this yearwho uh had to go through a very
difficult situation and usebehavioral euthanasia.
SPEAKER_01 (41:27):
Their dog was quite a tough one, yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (41:30):
And there was a lot of anger there too, just anger
about around the situation andthat they had to say goodbye,
you know, too soon to thisanimal that had also been, you
know, in many um ways veryloving, but then also had
displayed some pretty aggressivebehavior towards young children.
(41:53):
So you know, I think anger cantake different forms and yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (41:59):
It's a it's a I think that one's that one's much
yeah, and that one's complicatedbecause you you feel the guilt
of of not just your pet beingsick, but having to make a
choice that you you somehowyou've not done enough because
somehow you couldn't fix theissue, even if you've called in
a trainer, even if you've donebehavior modification, even if
you've done all these sorts ofthings.
(42:20):
So that one, that one getsreally, really tough.
It's a tough, tough choice.
Earlier on, you just you broughtup um embracing, you brought up
gratitude, and and I wanted totalk a little bit more about how
we can embrace gratitude in thegrieving process.
And by that, did you mean do youmean, you know, like being
(42:40):
grateful for the pet that we thetime that we had with our pet,
or how do we embrace gratitudewhen we're feeling so
overwhelming, such overwhelminggrief and and and probably a
little bit of sometimesdepending on the situation, you
know?
Just deep, deep sadness anddisp, I don't want to say
despair, but some people, youknow, it might be really, really
traumatic for so how do we findthose moments of gratitude in
(43:01):
during that time?
SPEAKER_00 (43:01):
Yeah, and they might just be like little glimmers of
gratitude, right?
Um, I get it.
I just had someone the other daysaid, I'm really having a hard
time feeling grateful right now.
And uh yeah, I'm like, well, Idon't, I don't think you you
don't have to force it, but umright, at least for I'll share
(43:22):
my experience and what I seeoften being helpful to people.
And yes, for me, in thebeginning of my grieving
process, it was helpful for meto recall everything I was
grateful for about the momentsthat I had shared with my pet,
everything that they brought tomy life, um, the journey that we
had shared together.
(43:43):
And so often I was talking abouttaking those walks.
And when I would take walks, Iwould really like I called them
my gratitude, you know, walks.
And I would really try and callto mind um those things that I
felt grateful for, justrecalling them, um, bringing
that into my experience as well,um, as the profound, you know,
(44:06):
sadness that that was there.
Um gratitude, it could take theform of maybe sharing your
gratitude, right?
So um maybe they're yourveterinarian or the pet hospice
who helped you at the end ofyour pet's life.
It might be writing a thank youletter to them.
(44:28):
Or I remember being at least andtaking them into our vet clinic
um with a little note of thanks.
And that was really it wasmeaningful to me.
And of course, they you knowthey appreciated that.
And um, or appreciating, youknow, gratitude to other people
that cared for your animal,maybe it was a groomer, pet
(44:52):
sitters, other people, thatcould be one way of of um of
bringing gratitude into thegrieving process.
And I will often say, if it'shard for you to say, um, like
I'm uh, you know, uh we oftentalk about keeping a gratitude
journal or you know,acknowledging what you feel
(45:13):
grateful for.
And if that just feels like, oh,I just I can't think of
anything, you could use the thephrase um I heard this recently
and I like this.
I have.
So I have food in myrefrigerator, I have people in
(45:35):
my life who care.
I have um, you know, I I have aroof over my head and a warm bed
to sleep in.
Like I have, you know, what arethe things acknowledging, um,
and really that's a way ofacknowledging um the presence of
you know, kind of the the giftsin our lives that we often take
(45:56):
for granted.
Um, but that's another way.
Yeah, and I just find that in interms of like the how it can be
helpful, it's that our minds areare wired to um kind of stick
more to the negative, right?
From a neurobiologicalperspective.
SPEAKER_01 (46:18):
Like why is that?
SPEAKER_00 (46:20):
Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (46:21):
I mean, it's that's a whole other podcast episode.
Like, why is that?
It's so tough to turn thataround sometimes.
SPEAKER_00 (46:28):
Rick, well, and I first heard this.
Rick Hansen is aneuropsychologist, and he this
has always stayed with me.
He said our brains are likeTeflon to the positive and
Velcro to the negative.
And we tend to, you know, yes,the negative things stick more,
(46:48):
and it's from an evolutionaryperspective, it's about
survival, but we don't need thatanymore.
Um, we're not living in an agewhere like we're tigers are
gonna eat us, but our mindsstill tend to glom onto the
negative.
So um, especially when we'regrieving and we're in that place
of like you were saying,despair, deep heartache, um, it
(47:10):
can be helpful to kind ofbalance, help balance that out a
bit with a practice likegratitude that helps us remember
there are things in our lifethat um that are going well,
also.
SPEAKER_03 (47:22):
I think one thing too that I've seen really touch
others and even those that areinvolving themselves in it is if
you maybe can't find a way to begrateful in that moment, provide
some sort of act of service tosomeone.
So, one thing in my community iswhen one of us loses one of our
(47:42):
beloved pets, we will usuallydonate to a cause that either
has something to do with thatpet in particular, like a
breed-specific rescue or ashelter near them, or just some
way of giving back, or we'llphysically actually go do
something together.
Um, and I found that that'sreally, you know, it's always
very emotional, but it'ssomething that we can all
(48:04):
remember and just know that, youknow, there's a community of
people supporting you, or justif you're one person that's
going and spending time in ashelter where, you know, they're
so in need of assistance rightnow, that I feel like if our
pets could have an input forwhat we would be doing, it's
spreading that love elsewhere.
And that doesn't necessarilymean bringing a new, a new
little one into your life rightaway, because that I know is a a
(48:27):
very challenging considerationfor a lot of people.
And I always tell people, you'llknow when you're ready.
Or the other thing that I havefound is I feel like a lot of
times our pets will send us theindividual when we're ready for
it.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I love that.
Yeah.
So, Mindy, the the way that Imet you, and one thing that I
(48:50):
would love to talk about furtheris the deck itself because it is
such a beautiful offering.
And I'd love for you to talk alittle bit more about how people
can utilize it, because I thinkmost people, when they see it,
would think of it as being, youknow, something to use perhaps
after the loss to help with thatpost-loss bereavement and grief.
(49:13):
But are there other ways thatpeople could utilize that, the
tool that you're providing themand almost like in preparation
or just to help navigate?
SPEAKER_00 (49:25):
Yeah.
Well, I think, you know, whenyou mentioned earlier the term
anticipatory grief, and that Ithink that the minute we know
our pets have a terminal illnessor are near the end of our life,
we begin to grieve.
And uh, and so that griefdoesn't begin when they die,
it's going on beforehand.
(49:46):
So the deck can, I think thatthe tools and the practices and
just the a lot of the remindersin um that are in the deck can
be helpful as you're preparingum for that time um when your
pet dies.
And and you know, one thing thatI've heard a couple of people
(50:09):
say is that they started workingwith it a few months beforehand,
and that then when the timecame, they felt like it actually
had given them some some toolsthat were really helpful to have
in that moment and in thoseweeks after their pet's death
when they were going through umthat that time of more acute
(50:30):
grief.
So I think it can be helpful preloss, and of course, after the
loss of a pet.
In fact, I had, as I wascreating it, I made these
prototype decks.
So I would take the artwork umand I would I would literally
like cut and paste the messagesand put it on the back and make
(50:51):
these decks and send that topeople so that they could use
that and then give me feedback.
And um, so it was a win-win,right?
They got to use it and have thebenefit of using it, but then
they also would give me feedbackand um and I have one woman
who's used it for almost threeyears and says that she still
(51:14):
draws a card because she'sstill, um, even though she just
adopted a new dog recently, um,you know, she waited for quite
some time.
And but she said, I still am,you know, I'm still grieving the
loss of um my previous dog.
And it's really helpful.
It's part of my ritual to draw acard each day.
(51:36):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (51:37):
I love that.
SPEAKER_03 (51:38):
I think it is going back to mindfulness too.
I love it.
Because so much of what's in thedeck, I mean, I feel like it can
be applied outside of even thespecific purpose for which you
created it.
SPEAKER_00 (51:52):
Yeah, I had one Betsy say that um they um one of
the things that they do is intheir weekly staff meeting, they
draw a card because they like totalk about self-care.
And so they said, you know, eachweek we um take one card and
then we talk about that in ourstaff meeting.
So it's really, it's I lovehearing about all the different
(52:13):
ways that it's being used.
Um, and people will say, youknow, the messages in here um
can apply to really any type ofloss.
And many of them can.
There's a lot that are, youknow, that are that have that
are more specific to petsbecause that's the the intent of
(52:34):
this, you know, of this healingtool that I created, but they're
also applicable to grief andloss in general.
Yeah.
So some people that are grievinghumans that they've lost or
going through other types oflosses find that it's helpful in
helping um them on those healingjourneys as well.
SPEAKER_01 (52:52):
And for those that are listening, can we be a
little technical?
What so how do we use so it'sit's a it's a deck of car of
cards that you created for griefand and bereavement.
And do we pull one daily too?
Do we pull one daily or just aswe feel inspired to do so, just
(53:13):
to remind us of gratitude or howwhat exactly?
SPEAKER_00 (53:17):
Well, my recommendation, and there's a
little card in the deck that umthat offers guidance in terms of
how I um when people use it, isto just close your eyes and
think of the pet you've lost anddraw a card each day.
And if it resonates, that'sgreat.
If it doesn't, you can put itback and pull another one until
(53:38):
you pull one that does feelappropriate for for whatever um,
you know, your your um kind ofum the place that you're in that
day.
And so some people tell me thatthey sit down and they read all
of these cards when they get theday.
And then they will just pull outa card or two that feels like
(54:02):
most helpful to them that day orthat week.
Um and yeah, it's so there's noright or wrong way to use it.
Yeah.
Yeah.
There's just no right or wrongway to use it.
Those are that was myrecommendation.
And then I always say to people,use it in the way that serves
you best.
(54:22):
There's 52 different messages.
And the reason I included somany was because we all grieve
differently.
And so I wanted to people um, orto offer people a variety of
different coping strategies,tools, practices that um that
they can use.
And then there are alsodifferent ways that you can um
(54:44):
ideas for honoring your pet'smemory, and um, and then
reminders, just reminders, kindof validations, like that, you
know, we all grieve in our owntimeline.
There's no right or wrong way togrieve.
Um there's a message calledhonoring your grief.
We talked about the, you know,that at the very beginning.
(55:05):
Yeah.
Just taking time, allowingyourself the time that you need
to grieve.
Yeah.
unknown (55:10):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_03 (55:11):
And kind of following up on that, I love the
idea of honoring them after.
So, of course, a part of mypractice is the end-of-life
transitions.
But I think one thing that a lotof people don't consider and
that I try to help guide as muchas I can, is after they're gone,
besides, you know, a lot of thethings we've talked about, what
(55:32):
are other ways that we can honorthem, even physically?
So I know this is a littletechnical, but it's of course
something that we have toconsider is with their remains,
what do we do?
And everyone has a verydifferent feeling about that.
But some of the things I justwanted to mention that I've seen
that are absolutely beautiful isthere are cremation jewelry,
(55:55):
there are physical, I've seenplanters with a succulent and
then the remains go in part ofit.
I mean, it's going somewherethat was meaningful to you and
spreading some of the remainsand having some sort of small
ceremony.
There's just so many ways toreally kind of think outside the
box.
And I will say Etsy is a reallygreat resource when it comes to
(56:16):
jewelry or any sort of physicalkeepsake.
They there are so many beautifulartisans on there that are doing
great things to honor bothhumans but also pets.
Can we take advantage of thoseas well?
SPEAKER_00 (56:30):
Yeah, Etsy's a great place.
Um, I love all those ideas.
One of the things I did, um I'llshare this.
Like a I think a photo collagecan be really helpful too.
Um that you and you can make ityourself, or you could do it
like on a site like Snapfish orum an online site, but that can
(56:51):
be really sweet.
Yeah, doing something though,right?
It's such a uh it's a way tohonor their memory.
And then it's also a way it'ssomething that um I think in our
in our culture we have so manyrituals um and different
ceremonies that to honor the theloss of a human loved one, but
(57:14):
not so many for pets.
So we get to we get to create.
Yeah, we get to create our own,be creative.
I love that.
And Lindsay, you probably get tohear so many different ideas
from people.
SPEAKER_03 (57:26):
Yeah, I really do.
And some of the ceremonies I'vewatched, I mean, are
breathtaking.
Like fresh flowers, I mean,people playing sound bowls,
gongs, chanting, sharing, youknow, for those that are
religious or spiritual, sharingpassages.
And yeah, it's really it's it'sbeen a very privileged
(57:49):
experience to be able to assistfamilies and and their furry
loved ones, but just being ableto experience that much love.
SPEAKER_01 (57:59):
Well, you guys, I so appreciate this conversation.
Um, and Dr.
Lindsay, thank you for askingsuch wonderful questions.
And thank you for joining me.
And Mindy, thank you so much forall the beautiful words that you
brought to the table.
I really enjoyed thisconversation.
Thank you both so much.
Thank you, Charlotte.
(58:21):
Thank you so much for listeningto this episode of the Baru
podcast, and a special thank youto Dr.
Lindsay Wendt for joining me asmy special co-host today.
I hope to have her back formore.
I've put links in the show notesfor Mindy's offerings.
And if you have a story of KingEine Companionship that you'd
like to share with me orquestion or even a comment, I
would love to hear from you.
(58:42):
You can email me, Charlotte, atthebaroo.com.
And don't forget to follow us onInstagram at BaruPodcast.
All right, you guys, let's chatin.
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