NINA HAWKINS: The Human Side of AI Creation | EPISODE 21 - The BASIC Show

Episode Transcript
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SPEAKER_03 (00:00):
Drinking your own dev?
Um if not your own dev, but it'sdefinitely not charged.
I don't think it's charged withgreat particles.
I don't wanna be he she itnon-binary, nothing.
I was like, maybe I just wannahave a matrix.
Once you create your twin, youcan actually like reuse your
face and do like free campaignsin several cities, like you
know, Paris, Tokyo, right?

(00:20):
Like all this New York, you canbe in several places at the same
time.
I'm just flooded with ideas.
Like I write a whole like albumidea, uh collection, clothing
collection idea, three musicvideos.
I've always been fascinated byGeorgian um alphabet and just
like what is so special aboutit, so it's just so beautiful.
It looks like uh elven, youknow, like the elven language in

(00:42):
Lord of the Rings.

SPEAKER_01 (01:02):
Welcome to the basic show.
We are at season four.
The theme is dark matter.
We are here at 405 motoring, andguess what?
I do have a special guest, NinaHawkings.

SPEAKER_02 (01:15):
Yay!

SPEAKER_01 (01:15):
Welcome to the basic show, Nina.
Thank you.
Guys, look at just thisincredible look.
Likewise.
Likewise, right?
Likewise.
Look how I got your memo.
Right?
It's like we're mirroring eachother.
Like we guys didn't talk, wedidn't like you know discuss
what we're gonna wear, butsomehow telepathically we knew
what we're gonna wear.
Your look reminds me on what youhave in your Instagram profile

(01:38):
that says Alienatrix and CyberWitch in wires.
Can you can you describe yourstyle and why you call yourself
that?

SPEAKER_03 (01:46):
Yeah, I was thinking, you know, how
everyone's coming up with likethese pronouns, you know, and
sometimes I'm like, I don't wantto be he, she, it non-binary,
nothing.
I was like, maybe I just want tohave an alienatrix as a pro as a
pronoun.
I saw like on some dating app itwas Faye.
I was like, you know what?
Let me just pick somethingweird.
I don't want to be part of thiswhole binary, non-binary war,

(02:10):
honestly.
So I just thought it was funny,but then I couldn't use
alienatrix as like a uh species.
It's in a way it's uh you know,alien and matrix, or in a way
dominatrix, you know, it's likeI don't yeah, I don't
necessarily play around withthese like um um relationship

(02:32):
dynamics or sometimes, but it'sjust I thought it was like a fun
wordplay, and I was thinkingmaybe it could be like an alter
ego or like a character ofminuscence as it's like one of
her archetypes, you know?

SPEAKER_01 (02:45):
So speaking of the uh you know alter ego, you do
have your digital twin calledNina Sense.
Yes, and I was looking into apro I mean I've heard about it,
but I didn't know to the levelthat you expanded your digital
avatar, and I know you expandedto the way that it is, if I'm
not mistaken, represented byPhotogenics Model Agency.
Yes.
So can you tell us more whatdoes it mean to you to create

(03:08):
your own digital twin?

SPEAKER_03 (03:09):
Yeah, the idea came to me, I think, back in 2019.
I was uh mostly focusing onphotography and filmmaking,
directing music videos at thetime, doing uh fashion films, uh
maybe some modeling.
And then one day one of myfriends sent me a this picture
of this like 3D avatar girl thatlooked exactly like me.

(03:30):
And that kind of I don't know,something switched, like flipped
in my mind, and I was justlooking at that, and it was kind
of fascinating for me to seejust like a digital version of
me by someone who never even metme in person, and it's just you
know, like had my features.
Um yeah, and I just felt reallyrelatable.
And I thought, um, I I've beenthinking to do uh to start a

(03:53):
music project actually, and Iwas thinking maybe an avatar
would be an interesting kind oflike play on how to push the
like a music project out aswell.
So I've been always kind of uhfantasizing about having this um
creative partner, um, some sortof like artificial intelligent
creative partner that is at homeand like collecting new skills

(04:16):
or editing pictures as I'm likeyou know, networking or
shooting.
Oh we all know, yeah, likeexactly like we all need someone
to help us, but at the time,like in 2019, uh it was still
not as you know prominent, likepublicly available, and um,
yeah.
So when I was reaching out to uhlike investors and pitching this

(04:37):
project, this idea pro uh uhwhere you have AI help you um as
a creative partner, they were soconfused.
They're like, so what is yourproduct product?
What do you mean AI is gonnahelp you make art and music?
What are you talking about?
You know, they were so confusedby the concept.
And then at the time I justfound like some sort of like
Google Docs where you could dosome art with AI, but it looked

(04:59):
very weird at the time.
You could do like dogs and andbubbles and some weird robots,
the faces look super creepy.
But like, you know, a littlethat I knew fast forward a
couple years after the pandemic,it just became so publicly and
consumer available, and I wasvery fascinated by it, and I was
just thinking, wow, that'sexactly what I was trying to do.
But yeah, basically during thelockdown, I took that extra time

(05:23):
that I had on my hand to finallylearn 3D and do my own avatar by
myself because I couldn't findanyone to do it for me.
Or like there's some people whodid it, but I just felt like it
wasn't me, it didn't feel likeme.
And then yeah, I just neededlike a female touch, and maybe
I'm a control freak, so I justit's interesting.

SPEAKER_01 (05:42):
Yeah, it's interesting you say that because
uh um recently, I don't know howyou know how recently, but I
even made a note that bigartists like Timberland, right?
They created AI focus labelcalled Stage Zero and with
specific AI character calledTata, and there's a virtual
rapper, Fn Mecca, right?
And he created right, createdAvatar Project by uh Factory

(06:04):
New.
And when I saw it, I thought, ohmy god, you know, how convenient
you create uh, you know, anartist who can be fully
controlled, fully manipulated,do everything you say.
It goes against all of thelegendary rock bands that were
in the past were rebellious andhad their own personality.
But when you talk about it,creating your own avatar, it
means it's your own twin, right?

(06:25):
It's your baby, it's your artproject, and you are in charge
of it, right?
You're not some, you know,creepy, creepy guy in the
background telling that AI, youknow, um uh I don't know, AI
persona what to do, right?
In a sense, you have like a19-year-old Brazilian girl, you
know.

SPEAKER_03 (06:41):
Right?

SPEAKER_01 (06:42):
I mean it's kind of creepy, but in the sense I love
that it's coming from youbecause you are an artist,
right?
It's your vision, it's yourproject.
You have full control of howit's presented, what does it do?
So, how do you see the future ofthat project?
What are you planning to do withit?
Yeah, so um sorry, by the way,is it the right way to say
project?
Sorry, especially.

SPEAKER_03 (07:00):
I guess project overall, I started uh it that's
how it became Lil Loves,actually.
I'll tell you, yes, yes, let'stalk a little bit more about
that.
Yeah, it started with me tryingto make an avatar for myself and
just seeing where it lands,seeing how it can help me.
Obviously, I realized okay,maybe creating a full fleshed
cyborg robot, you know, it's tooearly, and then AI is not there

(07:21):
yet.
Okay, let me start somewherewith just visuals, just 3D
version of me, you know, digitalversion of me.
And that's kind of how itstarted, to be honest.
Uh, I tried an ava to makeavatar of myself, then I made it
for my partner at the time, mybest friend at the time, and
then like you know, it's just Istarted making it for other
people, and I started gettingclients, and that's how Lillian
Loves was born, pretty much.

(07:42):
I called it um digital avatarincubator.
And so then the NFT times hit uhthe NFT boom, and then everyone
uh in the metaverse as well, andthen everyone wanted an avatar,
all of a sudden Paris Hilton didone, but I think Madonna did
one, and so you know, Doja didone, so everyone was trying to
get into it, and it kind of likelined up in a way where it just

(08:03):
became popular.
So what I was doing was kind oflike at the right time, uh, and
I've already learned theworkflow that I had, and I was
working on the proprietaryfacial scanning app, and you
know, there was just like allthese little things I was
working on it.
And um, yeah, uh shortly afterum Photogenics uh got in touch

(08:25):
with me, and they wanted tobecome the first modeling agency
to have their own uh avatars, umto like a whole division of
models from real models, notjust some made-up models, right?
Uh uh where you have to come upwith a story.
Yeah, it's just like an actualclone.
And I feel like that's kind ofthe mission of Lillem Labs is to

(08:46):
clone everyone and bringeveryone on the metaverse
slowly.
And of course, like if I do itby myself, like it'll take me
like I don't know, 5,000 years.
But you know, that's why I wasthinking, yeah, maybe I can
start with an app, facialscanning app, where people can
just scan them and putthemselves out there on the
metaverse and just like alreadyeither make some content if they

(09:07):
need, or you know, um kind of uminteract with that.

SPEAKER_01 (09:12):
Um yeah, but let me correct you actually.
So you said you were and theright was appropriate at that
time, but the way I know you,you were always ahead of
everybody, at least like threesteps ahead.
When first NFTs came in, I'mlike, okay, Nina already has her
whole fashion portfolio andwhole a lot of like fashion
works and NFTs, right?
Of the 3D models, you were thefirst one.

(09:33):
So AI models, you were the firstone.
So you kind of the pioneer Imean, in my idea, you are the
pioneer of AI fashion and youmeticulously brought brand blend
technology, fashion, art in away that not many people can do
it.
You must acquire very specifictechnical skill and patience,
right?
To work with this project.

(09:54):
Tell us a little bit about thebehind-the-scenes project uh
process of working on this AIproject.

SPEAKER_03 (10:00):
Yeah, I would say patience for sure.
Part of the reason, actually,I'm slowly moving away from 3D
into like fully AI, uh, becauseit's just so much faster, less
troubleshooting, uh morerealistic, because people would
still get this likeuncomfortable, uncanny valley
from 3D models because it's thetechnology is just still not

(10:21):
there yet.
And then just even doing facialrigging, you know, moving the 3D
model from software betweensoftware, always something going
wrong with the skeleton and likewith the bones inside like the
the 3D model skeleton, basicallyhow you make the model move or
dance, or you know, like forexample, you wear these suits
and then the model kind ofrepeats what you were doing.

(10:42):
But like we did this project forDisney, and then like you know,
we've been planning the thisshoot for like three months, and
then the day off, like just thesuit wouldn't connect, you know.
Like there's just like all theselike weird little things, and
then it starts of course itstarts working by the end of the
shoot, like you know, like allthese little things that you
have to troubleshoot all thetime with 3D or motion capture

(11:03):
that you just have to be awareof, and no matter how
technically skilled you couldbe, there's just always you know
room for um uh you know forerror, right?
For some sort of error.
But you know, there's a beautyin that because you really
practice your uh problem solvingskills in that and just like
working under pressure and thenyou've come up with creative

(11:23):
ideas.
So I think in a way that'sthat's cool.
But I do enjoy that you know,with AI you you can just get
results faster and they're uhthey're more realistic, and it's
just you you can just create somuch.
Like I'm like, okay.

SPEAKER_01 (11:35):
So how do you distinguish yourself with AI?
Because of course now it's so uhyou know publicly available,
everybody's doing it now.
How do you find that uniquevoice and make it yours using
AI?

SPEAKER_03 (11:46):
I would say that's something I haven't struggled
with with AI.
I guess like since I I have sucha like wide experience already,
I've been I think I gotten intophotography I was in 2009, you
know, like after like I aftermodeling.
So it's just uh kind of like Idon't know, it's just been a
second that I've been doing thatand uh it's been really organic

(12:09):
for you, right?
Yeah, it's been organic in a waythat I already developed my
original style.
And so and when I was working,let's say between photography
and 3D, people would already beconfused because the way I
retouch pictures already looks alittle bit 3D.
I take them to another, youknow, in a bit another level.
And same with with uh 3D, I makeit so realistic that that

(12:31):
sometimes you can't even tellwhat it is.

SPEAKER_01 (12:33):
Yeah, even for me, I was like looking at your uh at
your imagery.
I'm like, which one is AI, whichone is edited, which one is real
photo shoot?
Like you know, you really youknow have the skill to blend it
so perfectly.

SPEAKER_03 (12:44):
I think uh I just don't like having like
stereotypes or labels on things,so I just like to keep some sort
of mystery for people to look atit and be just feel something,
you know, be a little bitconfused but fascinated at the
same time, curious about what'sgoing on, what it is, and try to
figure it out.
I think that's kind of like ahealthy way to interact with

(13:05):
your audience, you know.

SPEAKER_01 (13:06):
So, how would you describe it?
I mean, in my opinion, I woulddescribe it like futuristic
fetishism.

SPEAKER_03 (13:11):
I like that.

SPEAKER_01 (13:12):
That's an interesting one.

SPEAKER_03 (13:13):
I don't know how would you describe it yourself,
but I mean, yeah, I enjoyfuturistic topics.
I think topics on sexuality areimportant as well, especially
for women, you know, becauseit's a way for us to kind of
take some power back uh insteadof being fetishized, especially
being an Asian woman, you know.
And then um I also enjoydiscussing like spiritual

(13:34):
literature topics andphilosophical topics as well.
Um, you know, things about likewitchcraft and astrology.
Like I wanna do these like uh apage of like AI memes with
different like astrology jokesand etc.
Um yeah, and then like my newventure, I guess like next week
I wanna just also venture outinto uh music as well.

(13:57):
And I try to play with AI musicor just use it as a demo and
then um okay.

SPEAKER_01 (14:03):
Let's dive into that a little bit.
I know we want sorry, I jumpedright.
No, let's I mean, since youalready touched upon, so of
course, you you you're anartist, a multifaceted artist,
right?
You've done photography and artand 3D, so now you are venturing
into music.
So tell us, you know, exactlyhow you're planning to enter
this, you know, overpopulated uhfield.
Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 (14:22):
Well, in a way, I've been working behind the scenes
on music also about since 2019as well.
Even though like my firstinteraction was like when I was
six, I got invited to like aschool choir, but I ran away
because I was just like a littletoo scared and it got me
traumatized in a way.
So it's like I always had thislike love-hate situation with
music where I just felt toovulnerable to like fully dive in

(14:45):
or and allow myself to expresslike that.
Um, but I think uh yeah, I'vebeen working a lot behind the
scenes on this part, and I feellike it's time, and especially
with uh like we talked aboutwith the boom of AI, and you
know, AI being able to just copypretty much anything.
I feel like it's important totruly understand who you really

(15:08):
are at your core, understandyour character, and understand
that um AI can copy what you do,but it cannot necessarily copy
you, right?
So it's like if you're trulyauthentic to yourself, um you'll
just always be your be yourself,and that's something that's hard
to replicate.

SPEAKER_01 (15:27):
Um so you're pretty much using AI as a tool, right?
Yeah, so it's a tool, so yeah,of course anybody can create,
but nowadays, of course, you caneasily determine like cheap, you
know, AI looks really tacky,yeah, and you can see something
very, very immaculate, somethingso extraordinary, like oh my
god, how what was going oninside of that person's head to
create that, right?

(15:47):
I guess it gives you the freedomto really put your ideas, you
know, into paper on the screen,right?
Exactly.

SPEAKER_03 (15:54):
I would say it's just one of those tools, just
like my camera, just like mycomputer, just like the 3D
software, it's just one of thetools.

SPEAKER_01 (16:00):
Just like a brush with oil.
Yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_03 (16:03):
Just like the brush.
It's like one of the tools thatI'm using, and it just helps me
uh speed up my workflow, but itdoesn't mean that I just using
that one tool in the end of theday, then I go and like edit it,
then I use like five to tendifferent AI tools to create one
piece, you know.
Like then I go in and just likefix little things, just like I
would do actually withphotography retouching, like you

(16:25):
know, adjust enhance something,adjust hair or clothing,
coloring, like there's still alot of things and like there's a
big process that goes into it.
It's not just like oh you putlike a free work, creative
input, right?

SPEAKER_01 (16:40):
Like you're constantly fine-tuning.

SPEAKER_03 (16:42):
Exactly.

SPEAKER_01 (16:42):
So, Nina, how do you see how do you see AI in the
projects that you do you beingused commercially?
Do you see commercial successwith this project and how?

SPEAKER_03 (16:52):
Uh yeah, currently actually uh I'm working on um a
lot of fun projects withartists, with other artists as
well, and uh in a way that helpsme to push my own artistry
because I'm kind of using themin a way as inspiration, just
seeing how uh popular and howhardworking they are, and you

(17:16):
know, um there's a semi like bigbig scale artist in a way, and
so for me to just be able tocontribute to what they're doing
and see it on like a big screen,doing the visuals for them or
creative direction, or just likeyou know, photography, video, or
some sort of uh other likevisual conceptual aesthetics.

(17:39):
Um I would say it helps me tokind of like be in the zone to
continue doing it for myself aswell.

SPEAKER_01 (17:46):
Um what is in demand?
What those artists are how doyou are you creating the avatars
for them or animating theartwork?
What exactly is it?

SPEAKER_03 (17:54):
Yeah, a bit of both.
Uh via doing the avatars, we'rekind of diving into like
creative direction.
Like, for example, we build likea whole visual universe for this
one artist that I'm workingwith, or I'm doing live visuals
for another artist uh doingtheir tour to visuals.
But um, you know, sometimes someof them want to work with

(18:16):
avatars, some don't, some wantto use the avatars kind of like
as pictures, and then some wejust use them as references to
kind of understand, you know,oh, would that look go for them?
Would that concept work work forthem?
And it's actually just yeah,easier for them to imagine.
A lot of people actually have ahard time imagining things if
you don't show it to them.
So when you show it right ontheir face, like, oh, this is

(18:38):
you in that setting wearing thatoutfit with this kind of hair,
it's gonna look good.
Like, look at this.
And so it it's easier to sellideas, like sell ideas.
Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 (18:48):
So speaking of selling ideas, do you see any um
brands that will jump on thistrain and you know you can get
like big paid projects using I?

SPEAKER_03 (18:58):
Uh I've definitely done some big projects with 3D
and avatars, okay.
Uh including my own or others.
Uh there was like an artcollaboration that I did.
Wow.
Uh we did a few exhibitions formy friend Victoria Modesta uh
with her with her avatar aswell.
Uh we did um there's someprojects I did with my avatar

(19:19):
for Dior and Lofficiel, and thendifferent magazines.
Um we did um Netflix, like adocumentary.
There's a demand, right?

SPEAKER_01 (19:30):
There is there is some demand, but it's not big.
It's not big yet, right?

SPEAKER_03 (19:33):
Yeah, how we were talking about pioneering the
space, in a way, um, yes,there's some people that are at
the forefront of technology, butthen I would say the majority,
and that's kind of like mybubble in a way where I'm in,
but then truly the majority ofpeople are still a little bit
behind in a way, and there's alot of pushback against um AI

(19:53):
because I feel like people arejust scared and not ready for
change.
Uh, and they're taking uh sometime to adapt, just like with
the internet or with thecomputers, or with even cameras,
you know, like the painters whenyou were moving from paper and
like brush and paper intophotography, people were just
really um angry at that.

SPEAKER_01 (20:13):
But do you think they uh they are um angry or um
they're actually trying topreserve the humanity?

SPEAKER_03 (20:19):
I think there's a little bit of both.
Yeah, I think we also need tounderstand what is driving the
AI in the end, it's uh the humanhumanity driven by humans.
Right, the humanity and theirmoral shortcomings are the ones
in a way that are driving theAI.
So the AI in itself isn't theenemy, it's just the way the

(20:40):
social standards are, the way uhthe society is.
So if people would be lesspower-hungry and like greedy and
you know, would maybe thinkabout how to um regulate these
things in advance and just kindof like plan it out rather than
just do it as a cash grab, ohyou know, it's like an AI race
or technology race, whoever getsto that first.

(21:02):
You know, so it's just in a waylike a dick measuring contest,
you know.

SPEAKER_01 (21:06):
Well, the thing, okay, I get it, but let's say if
we talk about specific, let'ssay fashion industry, right?
I know some big brands like HM,they use the clone the models,
right?
And the girls were saying, Oh mygod, it's so great.
I can be in the same day inJapan and like, you know, in
London, and you know, take partof all these multiple projects
at the same time.
And their fear is that we'relosing you know the humanity.

(21:29):
So now everything is AI.
Now brands are hiring thedigital artists, right?
Which is good for you, right?
But let's say that's what themodeling models are re
rebelling, because they'resaying, okay, our jobs being
taken by AI.
Same with cinematography, right?
You know, actors protesting thatsaying, okay, now my face could
be cloned and used by AI, andnow I'm no longer needed.

SPEAKER_03 (21:52):
So what you were talking about, uh that's kind of
like my idea of digitalimmortality that once you create
your twin, you can actually likeyou reuse your face and do like
free campaigns in severalcities, like you know, Paris,
Tokyo, right?
Like all this New York, you canbe in several places at the same
time and not worry about it.
I think the issue, like I saidagain, like the the moral um

(22:14):
backbone behind it.
So for example, withphotogenics, we had contracts
with all the models, they'regetting percentage from all the
jobs, uh, you know, they they'rehaving ownership of their face.
I think some countries, I'm notsure, don't quote me on that.
It was either Sweden or one ofthe um one of the European,
maybe Denmark, one of theEuropean countries, they

(22:35):
actually decided that um youforever is uh holding uh you
you're holding the rights toyour face.
So if it's ever replicated, youneed to get paid for that.
So I think if we just regulateit properly and we are um you
know truthful and honest abouthow this technology is being
used, I don't think there shouldbe any problems.

(22:57):
The problem is that people arejust lying and are greedy.

SPEAKER_01 (22:59):
100%.
You know, it was sodisheartening to see how the
image of Marilyn Monroe wasabused through so many years,
right?
I remember there was a liveperformance of Whitney Houston
after her death, they're usingher that digital hologram.
And I'm thinking those artistsnever gave approval for the
image to be used after theirdeath.
And if not if I'm not mistaken,I think Lana Del Rey was one of

(23:20):
the first who said, I'm notallowing my image to be used
after my death.
So I guess what you're saying,which I'm 100% agree, that it
needs to be regulated, right?
We need to have the freedom, butit needs to be regulated on how
it's being used by whom and inwhich circumstances.

SPEAKER_03 (23:33):
Yeah, discuss with family.
Right.
Uh I think we had a project withthe um Frida Kahlo's Foundation,
and so we had to go for a familyin order to do any sort of
decisions, you know.
So I feel like if you aretransparent about what you're
doing, there wouldn't be aproblem.
But I feel like a lot of peopleare just doing it kind of in a
sneaky way.
That's when things get tricky,and that's when the trust is

(23:56):
being broken, but then this hateis pointed towards the
technology, not towards thepeople who are misusing it, you
know.
Right.

SPEAKER_01 (24:03):
But do you think um using uh AI disvalues your art?
Let's say if you created apainting, right, that lasted for
centuries and generations, ifyou create something by you know
clicking one button, I mean, I'mexaggerating, but by using a
prompt, right?
It's not gonna be timeless.
So is there a reason and youknow motivation to keep using AI

(24:25):
knowing that it's not gonna betimeless?

SPEAKER_03 (24:27):
Yeah, I mean, in the same way uh people are just
doing, you know, phone picturesand like uh putting them in the
exhibitions, you know,everything has become so much
more uh interchangeable in a wayand in and replaceable, and uh
the the speed with what peopleare consuming uh content is so
much higher.

(24:48):
So I feel like in a way, um youknow that doesn't necessarily
again, it's all about how muchtime you put into it because you
can spend 10 hours on a paintingand then 10 hours on a digital
artwork, and the amount of thetime is the same.
It's like okay, if it just sitsin a digital um space, yeah,

(25:10):
that's one thing, but if youlet's say print it or redraw it
or you know bring it out intothe real world, then you can
give it life, right?
So I don't see it in the way oflike being less same as
photography versus painting.
I think it's just the nextevolution from photography.

SPEAKER_01 (25:29):
So what do you think it's gonna be?
I mean, in your prediction,what's gonna be that next thing?
After AI.
After AI not gonna singularity,yeah, hey cyborgs, cyborgs?

SPEAKER_03 (25:42):
Yeah, I don't know, transhumans, well uh post-humans
we'll see.
Uh you mean in terms of art orin the world?

SPEAKER_01 (25:47):
In terms of art, right, right.
By the way, sorry, I already canimagine what kind of cyber cyber
you could create.

SPEAKER_03 (25:55):
Right.

SPEAKER_01 (25:55):
Anyway, sorry, go ahead.

SPEAKER_03 (25:56):
I'm just thinking in terms of um my biggest concern
with what's going on is actuallythat people will stop learning,
and I think education is veryimportant for me as someone who
is so curious, and is someone islike who's spending nights to
just randomly look up sometutorials till 5 a.m.

(26:20):
on YouTube uh university, youknow.

SPEAKER_01 (26:22):
That's why you're so good.
Yeah, I don't know.

SPEAKER_03 (26:24):
I just I just have maybe it's called mental
illness.
No, it's called determinationand discipline, um curiosity or
distractions, but anyway, yeah.
Um, I would say I think the mostimportant part is for people to
just keep learning.
It doesn't matter what you'relearning, it doesn't matter what
tools are you using, as long asyou're learning and curious and

(26:44):
you have that fire in you andyou keep going and you keep
learning new things and you keeppracticing new skills, it it
doesn't have to be only digital.
After like years actually ofdoing the avatars, for a second
I had to stop because I just gotso tired of like looking into my
computer because withphotography, at least you're
like out there shooting all daylong, then you edit, and then

(27:04):
when I switched to 3D, I wasjust in front of my computer
24-7, and that started drivingme insane.
So then for time I turned tolike 3D printing and then I
started uh crafting with myhands, I started doing jewelry
actually.
Oh wow, really?
Yeah, so and then like we didlike a little um robot
sculpture.
So it's like you know, it's goodto just go back into the real

(27:25):
world and touch something, youknow, do something with your
hands.
So yeah, I think um my biggestconcern with AI here is that uh
people will just get lazy and wealready see the overall, like
that movie, you know, the umthis this about the stupidity.
I forgot what it's called.

SPEAKER_01 (27:43):
The movie about stupidity?

SPEAKER_03 (27:45):
Every second call give me a few more clues.
Where where everyone is liketurning stupid as as well?
Oh, I've heard about it.
What was it?
Yes, yes, that one.
Yeah, I've heard about it, yeah.
So it's slowly kind of it's likeit's like supposed to be funny,
but I look at it and I turnreally sad because I'm like,
this is depressing because thisis where we're slowly moving
towards, you know.

(28:06):
So it's like as long as peopleare continuing to use these
tools as an addition to whatthey're already doing, not as a
replacement, you know, then itshould be fine.
But if people just get lazy andjust yeah, like you said, just
put in the prompt and okay, I'mdone.
That's I I I personally I don'trespect that neither, you know.

(28:27):
I want people to work to put inthe work, and but it's it's fine
if you know if you're sittingthere and sculpting it with you
know in 3D or if you're trainedtrain the data on something that
you've done before.
Like I I'm not judging peoplebased on how they decide to
produce their work, it's morelike do they just need to keep
producing and and doing it.

SPEAKER_01 (28:47):
Right, right.
Well, brain is a muscle, right?
It always needs to be flexed, italways needs to be tested and
challenged, otherwise we will,you know, just like buddy.
Exactly.
Yeah.
Well, I guess the question isabout those people who jumped on
this train first and made a lotof money fast.
And real artists were outragedbecause, oh my god, I've been an
artist for like 10, 20 years,you know, trying to get into and

(29:08):
being in the museums, and thensomebody just comes in, presses
the button, makes the prints,and sells like thousands of of
those, you know, AI prints andmakes money out of it.
So I guess that was the dilemmasaying, okay, how somebody who
is not an artist, right, justputting the words out, pressing
the button and selling it aslabeled as artwork.

SPEAKER_03 (29:27):
Yeah.
I mean, I've seen that happenactually, like uh someone saw me
posting like all these tests Idid with mid-journey at the
time, and someone literally justlike kind of copied what I was
doing and then sold their work,and then like, oh you inspired
me, thank you so much.
Like I became an AI artist now,you know, based because like you

(29:48):
inspired me with what you do.
It wasn't stealing my work, butit's just like I guess like the
workflow.
So, but you know, and then likethey went off and uh we're
selling like Like at Christie's,and I think they sold it for
like 300k, like the collection.
So in a way, I mean I was like,you know what?
That's in a way a compliment.
Like, I'm glad.
Like, I'm I understand it's umnot the most pleasant sometimes

(30:13):
feeling that okay, you've beendoing this for so many years,
but I feel like if you keep uhcomplaining about everything in
your life, you're not gonna getanywhere, you know?
So just just just look what's infront of you and don't look what
other people are doing, youknow.

SPEAKER_01 (30:24):
You know they say copying is the best way of
flattering.

SPEAKER_03 (30:27):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 (30:27):
So if somebody's copying you, you know, it means
you're doing something right.

SPEAKER_03 (30:31):
Yeah, exactly.
It's like, okay, maybe it'stheir time now and my my time
will be later, and maybe I'llmake more money than they did.
You know, you never know whatthe universe has in store for
you.
But of course, the sure way, ifyou're gonna sit and complain
about that, that nothing iscoming your way, then maybe it's
not gonna come your way ifyou're gonna sit and complain
about it.

SPEAKER_01 (30:49):
So you actually have to do the work, right?
Yeah, yeah.
And I love the thing about youthat you are multi-
multi-talented artists, right?
You're not stopping and justdoing one thing.
Kind of reminds me a little bitof like this punk version of
Leonardo da Vinci.
Oh, thank you.
Wow.
It's like Renaissance woman.
Yeah, well, because he was doingeverything.
He was doing like anatomy andart, you know, all these amazing

(31:10):
projects at the same time.

SPEAKER_03 (31:11):
His access to education was different, so
different.
So he's definitely a genius.
Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 (31:17):
So speaking of education, how do you think what
is the best way to acquireknowledge nowadays?

SPEAKER_03 (31:24):
I mean, everything you want is literally at the
tips of your, you know, of yourfingers, uh, just tutorials.
Yeah, yeah, tutorials, Chat GPT,uh, whatever Gemini, you know,
Anthropic, etc.
So just having like that goaland it's more like having
curiosity for the world and likeknowing what you want, knowing

(31:47):
what you want to know, and thencontinue asking, but then also
retaining that knowledge.
Because one thing if you justkind of like read through it and
forget about it, and everythingif you um practically build your
own curriculum in a way, youknow, uh that you um continue
studying on what you're lookingup, not just looking up for the
sake of right, right.

SPEAKER_01 (32:09):
So, have you experienced in in in your
personal journey where you dosomething that you really really
love, but what becomessuccessful or commercially
successful is somethingdifferent from what you thought
it would be.
For example, if you dophotography and you love it, but
you became more successful with3D or vice versa.
Did you notice anything in yoursimilar things in your personal

(32:30):
journey where a certain ventureyou take and put your heart in,
not as financial or commercialsuccessful, something else you
didn't expect that you starteddoing?

SPEAKER_03 (32:40):
Yeah, I think when I started doing like jewelry
randomly, it kind of justhappened.
Like I was doing uh uh I wasmaking a present for my friend,
and then I was like, Oh then Iwas like, oh, that's actually
fun.
Then my friend invited then Iwas like, oh maybe I'll just
post them on Etsy or whatever,and then my friend is like, oh,
come to my showroom, show themin my showroom.

(33:00):
So it's like then people starttaking it to shoots, and now
it's like I had some celebritieslike Beck Street Boys and like
um uh Halsey and like otherslike use it in their own.
What piece of jewelry was it?
It was just actually the jewelrythat they used in the end was
like simple heart earrings withlike you know silver like little
things that I did, or like this,like I've designed this like
corset bra that I've reallyprinted uh that and like these

(33:24):
nails that was used in the videofor the dancers.
So it's like those little thingsthat are unexpected.
Actually, in the same way how Iended up in fashion world, I was
just doing um back when I wasliving in Vietnam, I was doing a
lot of like um behind kind oflike event uh like festival
videography or like fashion likeshow videography, but behind the

(33:48):
scenes, and then like peoplefrom Elle magazine in Vietnam,
they noticed me and they werejust like, oh, how about you
actually shoot for the magazineitself, not not just a show.
And and that's when I was comingto the shows, I realized I don't
want to be the photographerthat's shooting the runway, I
actually want to be thephotographer inside the
magazine, you know?
So it's like little things likethat, and and that happened
randomly for me, just like doinglike a favor for someone.

(34:10):
I ended up at that fashion showand then El Vietnam saw me, you
know.

SPEAKER_01 (34:13):
So I just you would think it's a coincidence, but it
wasn't.
Yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_03 (34:17):
So it's like sometimes you do these things as
a favor to someone, you know,and then it may lead you
somewhere where you didn'texpect, like somewhere where you
didn't even wouldn't even dreamto meet those people, you know.

SPEAKER_01 (34:28):
So you just mentioned in Vietnam.
So tell us about your journey.
So you speak Russian, but youwere born in Vietnam.

SPEAKER_03 (34:34):
Uh actually, yeah, I uh I'm half Georgian, half
Vietnamese.
Half Georgian, half Vietnamese.
Yes, my mom is is Vietnamese, mydad is Georgian.

SPEAKER_01 (34:42):
Oh, okay, what a mix.

SPEAKER_03 (34:44):
Yes, yes.
I was born in Russia, but then Ilived in Georgia right away for
a couple of years, but I don'tremember any of that.
Apparently, I even spoke thelanguage.
Like my city is like 15 minutesaway from Stalin's house.
Uh like you spoke alienlanguage.
Yeah, like I I don't rememberany of that, but um then I lived
in Ukraine and I have Ukrainiancitizenship.

(35:04):
So it's like I'm all over theplace.
Then like um I went back,studied at the university, and
then went to Vietnam for acouple months, ended up in
Vietnam for three years, andthen I you know met my ex at the
time, then we went to uh to thestates.
Um, so yeah.
So you like you were all overthe place?
Yeah, I just let the world guideme.

SPEAKER_01 (35:26):
So so let me ask you this do you feel belonging to a
specific culture since you'vebeen traveling and your parents
coming from such differentbackgrounds?

SPEAKER_03 (35:35):
Yeah, I would say definitely that's one thing that
I've always kind of in a way notstruggled with, but it's just
like identity.
Um like in being in search foryour own identity, something
I've always kind of been workingon, like culturally and in
general, like I just felt alwayslike the odd one out, you know.

(35:57):
Uh so yeah, it's just reallybeen hard for me to kind of feel
like I fit in anywhere, and Ijust started embracing that.

SPEAKER_01 (36:05):
You know, every time guest says something profound, I
have goosebumps, I always sayit, and I just realized you in
search of your identity, youcreated your whole universe, you
know, in a sense, you createdyour own world searching for
identity, but that funneled youand gave you the energy and the
strength and motivation tocreate something completely new

(36:27):
that didn't exist before.

SPEAKER_03 (36:29):
Yeah, I guess in a way, because it's just when you
feel like you don't belong inthis world and you just can't
find your place or you people.
I mean, I feel like now I foundmy my people and I do feel like
LA is is the place that I reallyrelate to and just enjoy being
around so many amazing artists,even though it has its own
shortcomings too, but you know,in a way it's just the energy,

(36:50):
it's it's something that'sreally hard to to get anywhere
else in the world.
But yeah, I mean I've beenalways struggling with like, you
know, growing up, uh an Asiankid in, you know, in a very
Slavic community.
That's something I've beenstruggling as well with like,
you know, racism and bullyingand that and that.
But um, you know, kind ofaccepting that Asian part of

(37:13):
myself, uh, something that I hadto like learn over the years,
only after so many years of likestruggling with identity and
just like learning that.
And you know, uh then I starteddiscovering more about Georgia.
Like I did the DNA test, andthere's certain things about me
and my family that I also foundout, and I was like, oh, okay,
like that makes sense.
There's just like so many morenew things, uh yeah, that I

(37:36):
found out.
And so I've been kind oflearning more about Georgian
culture, and I've always beenfascinated by Georgian um
alphabet, and just like what isso special about it?
Tell us it's just so beautiful.
It looks like uh elven, youknow, like the elven language in
Lord of the Rings.
No, I yeah, it it kind of lookslike that like on the ring.
Oh, okay, like you know thathieroglyphy.

(37:57):
Yeah, yeah.
Very pretty, like almost Arabiclike Sanskrit, like in the very
beautiful language.
I actually thought like that itwas a beautiful alphabet for a
really long time.
And so I've been learning moreabout that culture as well.
I want to go there too and likekind of reconnect, maybe find my
family there.
You know, there's just like somany interesting things about
different cultures that I got tobe a part of.

(38:19):
I also like always kind of sinceI've been doing like
cross-playing and part of theanime community for so long, I
also kind of ingrow in like umengross myself into Japanese
culture a lot, and then I'vegrew up with a lot of Chinese
people.
My stepdad is Chinese.
So there's many, many cultures Ikind of felt in the world.

SPEAKER_01 (38:38):
Well you mixed everything up and made it yours,
right?
I I guess, I guess, yeah.
It just happens like that, yeah.
So so finding your identity andyou know, finding where you
belong, and you work in such acreative field, and you're in a
lay.
Let's talk about relationship alittle bit, you know.
Let's touch upon like for a fewminutes.
D how hard is it or how easy itis for you personally to be in a

(39:02):
long-lasting relationship doingwhat you do?

SPEAKER_03 (39:06):
Um, I would say overall, I'm pretty like I I've
been in like one six-year-oldrelationship, six-year
relationship, and then afive-year relationship.
And uh, you know, the firstpartner helped me understand I
actually want someone who'screative but also is ambitious
and something someone who'sdoing something about it.

(39:27):
That's kind of like what I feltwas lacking the most in the
first relationship, outside ofother, you know, things, things
that didn't work out.
Um, and then in the second uhbig uh you know relationship, uh
we've been kind of growing a lottogether and doing a lot of
things together, you know.
So it was kind of like a malecounterpart that where he was

(39:47):
doing also like everything likefrom 3D and filmmaking and
modeling and that and music.
So in in that way, it just feltcomfortable to be with someone
who is like that as well.
Um, yeah, and I mean I feel likeit's important for me to be with
someone who is somewhatcreative.
They don't have to do art or bea musician necessarily, but I
feel like creativity issomething that's part of your

(40:09):
personality, right?
So it's like even a lawyer oryou know, or banker can be
creative.
Yeah, right.
Or like a you know, a a techperson could be could be
creative too, as long as it'sjust something within their
blood, something that they'reusing.
Uh just like it's like adifferent view on the world, I
think.
Uh what about scientists?

SPEAKER_01 (40:29):
I mean scientists very creative, no?
Very creative.
Like in the lab making andmixing the portions.

SPEAKER_03 (40:37):
Yeah, I have some friends uh of that work for NASA
and for JPL because we did someprojects together.
And they're very creative.
They they actually enjoy workingon like those weird sculptures
that we were doing.
With the science guy, maybe,yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 (40:52):
I mean, I'm pretty open.
Yeah.
So what are the so what are thequalities in your partner
important to you, the mostimportant to you, besides
obviously being aligned?

SPEAKER_03 (41:00):
Yeah, I'd say creativity, loyalty, intellect,
um uh being kind of true liketruthful is important because
I'm the kind of person that I Idon't really like lying and it's
just like not something It's socrazy we even have to like I
don't know if the bar is so lowand I low, I can't believe we
have to be safe, we want a loyalpartner.

SPEAKER_01 (41:21):
Yeah, no, I agree.
Because like, should it be likea given?
You know, you want loyalty, youwant the commitment, right?
Only a few people by the way,let's let's let me dive in.
What do you think about this?
Are you for monogamousrelationship or for like polyama
responsibility?

SPEAKER_03 (41:34):
I think I'm mostly monogamous.
Monogamous, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 (41:36):
What do you think about those couples who are like
together and saying, well,looking for a third person to
add into our happy relationship?

SPEAKER_03 (41:43):
I mean, if that works for them, like why not?
If they're understanding theirneeds, I can see how like maybe
one person cannot fully satisfyyou, but I think you just have
to have like a life outside ofyour partner, you know.
Um and maybe that's why somecouples are facing difficulties
with that.
They get bored because maybethey spend too much time

(42:04):
together and they don't havetheir own life, so they become
each other's worlds.
Um yeah, I think um I thinksomeone who's also like very
aware and is willing to grow,because I'm constantly growing,
either within my career orspiritually, like that's very
important to me.
So someone who's always gonna bestuck in their trauma and not

(42:24):
able to heal past that, I thinkthat that's just something that
someone who's not gonna be ableto keep up with me for sure.

SPEAKER_01 (42:31):
From my experience, there are so many people
unfortunately coming with traumafrom their childhood, right?

SPEAKER_03 (42:37):
Something is I mean, me too, so I understand.

SPEAKER_01 (42:40):
Yeah, so it's like something.

SPEAKER_03 (42:41):
Do you think it's the you know pitfalls in the
society in general or well, Ithink you know, as someone who
is coming where I come from, Iwas still able to find like the
power in me to not let mybackground hinder my, you know,
my success and like where I'mgoing.
And unfortunately, I know a lotof people who are faced with

(43:04):
similar um, you know,conditions, but then they kind
of just end up blaming the worldfor their problems and just not
growing.
So I think it's just like Isaid, being aware and being uh
spiritual in a way is importantto kind of keep wanting to grow
and keep wanting to be betterand not blame everyone for

(43:25):
something that you can'tcontrol.
What what is spiritual to you?
Um, spiritual, I guess, in away, is just someone who is
aware, like aware meaning istrying to be present and it's
trying to be better, is tryingto um um okay.
So there's a few practices thatI'm I'm doing.
Yes.
Uh some of them is like, forexample, one of them is

(43:47):
vipassana, it's like a silentretreat uh that you can do it's
like a 10-day thing where you'relike when you're blind and
that's a different one.
I do that's the next one.
That's the next one I want todo.
That that's that one that one isyou like live in the darkness
for like what seven days.
Yes, and then you see a sliverof light, and you're just like,

(44:08):
whoa, that's very interesting tome.
I haven't tried that.
I think that's the next level.
The one I'm doing is ten days,you're just silent.
Okay, you don't talk, andideally, you try to avoid uh eye
contact, you live by the fiveprecepts, like the rules don't
kill, don't steal, don't lie,don't cheat, and no intoxicants.
So ever since I've done that,I've been sober and I'm trying

(44:28):
to kind of like uh live by thoseprecepts as as much rules as
much as I can.
Um and you you pretty much justmeditate all day long from four
from 4 a.m.
to 9 p.m.
Wow.
Yeah, you just take breaks andthen you know they it it's
completely free.
Uh it's all donation-based.
You you can come stay there,they feed you, people come to

(44:51):
volunteer.
So, what I did my second time, Icame for like almost three
weeks.
It was like 19 days in the end.
I came uh four days before I wasserving, so I was like cleaning
and cooking and like doingwoodworking on new New Year's.
Like, I was like, that's thebest new year of my life.
Not at some party, but likewoodworking in the middle of the
woods for this like meditationcenter, you know.

(45:11):
And in the end, like whatever Ijust realizing that whatever I'm
doing, this like selflessservice, that what they call it,
uh yeah, like you're not gettingpaid, but you're uh contributing
to happiness of like hundredpeople, you know, more than a
hundred people that come out ofthis course and they're all
smiling and their world hasliterally just changed, and you
just I don't know, it it itreally gives back, you know.

(45:32):
Um where was it against or itwas Vipassana you said?
Vipassana.
Vipassana, where where exactlywas it?
Oh, there's they're all acrossthe world everywhere.
Yeah, there's like three inCalifornia.
There's one in the desert, oneuh Norfolk, where I went like
towards uh and then one likepast San Francisco.
So there's like at least threeofficial ones in California,
there's at least one in Texas,like some in New York, like

(45:55):
they're across the world andacross the states.

SPEAKER_01 (45:57):
So hold on, let's stay here for a second.
So you went for that experience,how long was it?

SPEAKER_03 (46:01):
Usually it's 10 days, but I went for longer
because I I wanted to servebefore and after it.
So serve.
Serve, like meaning just likehelping as staff.
Okay, and then I went for acourse.
So like I was uh I was doing inbetween courses basically, like
there's like three days thatpeople a couple three, four days
that people take to like cleanand prepare the center for the

(46:23):
next group.
Uh so you can use it.
You stay there, you help youeither clean or cook or do
maintenance.
Like like I said, I was doingwoodworking on New Year's, that
was incredible.
Um, and then yes, and then Iwent to the to the course for 10
days, so I was just sitting it.
Uh, and then when course ended,I stayed for an hour, four days

(46:46):
to to help serve again.
And then I was gonna stayactually, I was almost wanting
to stay for an hour ten days toserve again, but then I had a
job, and then also the fireshappened, and I had no idea it
was.

SPEAKER_00 (46:58):
It was just recently, right?

SPEAKER_03 (46:59):
Yeah, it was this year.
Yeah, literally I'm I'm comingout of my course, and like I
have like hundreds of messageson my phone, like, Nina, are you
okay?
How about the fires?
I was like, what fires isfreezing in here?
I'm like silent.
Yeah, no, it was snowing where Iwas.
Snowing, yeah, almost snowing,yeah.
Wow.
Uh it was like snowing a coupledays, then it was like freezing
cold, it was storm.

(47:20):
So I was like, what fires?
What are you guys talking about?
I I had no idea.

SPEAKER_01 (47:27):
Like in one sentence, how would you describe
it?
Unflockable, like unflockablewith, like in a way that's
indestructible.
So it made you so resilient.

SPEAKER_03 (47:37):
Yes, like I would say for three months, like
literally nothing could annoyme, nothing could get to me.
I also didn't even have any likelike any intrusive thoughts.
It's like people would be like,What are you thinking about?
I'm like, nothing.
They're like, what do you mean?
I'm like, literally nothing.
Like, there's no thoughts in myhead.
It's great.

SPEAKER_01 (47:56):
It's but hold on, but creative creatively wise,
did you feel more creative ordid you have new ideas after
that or no?
Oh my god.

SPEAKER_03 (48:02):
The second I turned off my phone, because you go in
there, there's no phones,nothing, not even books, you
can't even work out, nothing.
So the second every time I gothere, the first three days, I'm
just flooded with ideas.
Like I write a whole like albumidea, uh collection, clothing
collection idea, three musicvideos.
Like there's just like you startbursting.
The second you turn off yourphone and and cut off all that

(48:26):
external noise that's cominginto you, and the second you
spend time with yourself andwork on yourself, you you just
flood it.
Like literally.

SPEAKER_01 (48:32):
You just become this energy bubble, right?

SPEAKER_03 (48:35):
You need to allow yourself to listen to yourself,
to your inner voice, not to whatother people tell you.

SPEAKER_01 (48:39):
Yeah, it's true because every day we're so
distracted, right?
With the TV, with the phone,with the news, you know, with
the messages, with the ears.
Yeah, you don't have time foryourself.
Yeah, if you maybe have tocalculate and put a timer, how
how much time I had today, likejust to be in stillness and
think about my ideas, probablywould be like what, five five
minutes a day, or maybe never.

SPEAKER_03 (48:56):
Exactly, which is why I think meditating is very
important.

SPEAKER_01 (48:59):
Okay, so you mentioned we have two technique
two spiritual techniques.
One was vi vipassana.

SPEAKER_03 (49:04):
Vipassana is like the main one, definitely.
Like it just helps you to justget into this indestructible
mode for sure.
And understand everything.
Like I I've been in spiritualitysince like 19.
I was reading a lot of likeCarlos Castaneda and all the
other books and Osho, etc.
etc.
Um, I would say like now Ireally enjoy books of Joe

(49:26):
Dispenza, and then there's theSilva method, too.
It's the guy Silver Method.
Yeah, have you heard about it?
Uh this guy, he was like a radiotechnician, and he just wanted
to help his daughter to um uh tolearn better in school and so
she would pay attention becauseshe was failing her whatever her
her grades, and uh literally hedeveloped some sort of system

(49:49):
based on the frequencies becausehe was a radio guy and not only
she became better, uh shestarted before he even asked the
question, she would alreadyanswer it.
So, in a way, it was like somesort of telepathetic
understanding, uh-huh.
Or she would like look at thebook or like either read it once
or look even like look at it orlike look through it, and she

(50:11):
would already like memorizewhat's inside the book.
So it's like some crazy, youknow, effects of it.
Uh and I think the main methodin there is just like deep
relaxation and turning yourselfinto the alpha state.
That's another thing I likedoing, like quantum jumping.
It's like trying to relax yourbody and your mind as much as
possible, get into the alphastate and jump into like a you

(50:31):
know hold on, let's slow down.

SPEAKER_01 (50:33):
I'm just you just exploded my brain.
Getting into the alpha state ofconsciousness.
Of consciousness?
Okay, just rewind a little bitback here.

SPEAKER_03 (50:42):
Yeah, alpha state of mind.
Basically, the mind has severaluh states of consciousness.
I think I kind of forgot thenames of it.
I think the regular one is thebetter state that that we are in
every day.

SPEAKER_02 (50:53):
Right.

SPEAKER_03 (50:54):
And then when we slow it down a little bit, uh I
I forgot the like there's thedifferent action frequencies.
Yeah, there's like actual likefrequencies that you operate.
You you can literally like uhhook up like an EEG machine or
some sort of machine to yourbrain and see on what frequency
it operates.
And so like the faster you thinkand the more agitated you are,

(51:14):
the faster the frequencies are.
And so it you can literally likeyou know slow yourself down to
the state of coma, you know.
So like um there's the alphastate where you kind of like rem
slip, you know, like uh whichslip?
REM sleep.
What is it?
When you're in the REM sleep,like the deepest state of the
way when you have like thedeepest like dreams.

SPEAKER_01 (51:36):
Okay, so the deep deep sleep.
Okay.

SPEAKER_03 (51:38):
Yeah, kind of like a deep sleep in a way, yeah.
The REM state.
Uh so it's it's like the medmeditative state, right?
And then there's the uh likeeven lower, you can lower your
frequencies so much uh that umokay, not lower the frequency,
but frequency of slow down,maybe.
Yeah, slow down the frequency.
Okay.
Not lower, slow down thefrequencies to the point where

(51:59):
you could put yourself almostlike in a coma state.
Like you you have uh such a veryum very slow basically
frequency.

SPEAKER_01 (52:07):
Maybe even right?

SPEAKER_03 (52:09):
Maybe almost like yeah, slowing down.
I I think I was playing withlike uh slowing down and
fastening my heartbeatsometimes.
Like I was watching it on the onthe iWatch or whatever.
And like I was playing it.
Did you do it?
I thought I did because it wasgoing crazy.
Like I thought I did in you Itwas like from 50 to 200.
It was like going crazy.
I don't know if I was if if itwas some sort of malfunction.

(52:29):
Malfunction or something.
I I thought it worked, butagain, I'm not sure if that's
something that you can do.
But again, yes, there's justlike several um types of uh
state of consciousness, and thenyou know, there's slower states
of consciousness and fasterwhere you're like in um you know
flow state, they say.
Uh you get in some people sayyou get in this flow state if

(52:50):
you have like a little run, andthen um you have a coffee.
Ah, like an anxiety, no?
Or not an anxiety.
So anxiety too.

SPEAKER_01 (52:58):
I mean like a little agitated.

SPEAKER_03 (52:59):
Yes, but that's like a little bit unhealthy state in
a way where you're overthinkingit, but there's a healthy state
on that where you feel veryinspired.
Oh so basically, yeah, there'slike many different states of
that, and just being able tokind of control yourself in a
way where you can uh jump, notjump, but like basically move

(53:21):
between those states betweenfrequency, and then within those
frequencies, you're able tomanifest or call onto let's say
the scenario that you desire uhmore likely to to attract it, to
manifest it.
Way we call it quantum jumping.

SPEAKER_01 (53:38):
Quantum jumping.

SPEAKER_03 (53:39):
Yes, so you basically jump from this reality
that you're in, you imagine thislike other reality where your
ideal self is like that movie,um everything all at once, you
know.
I think so.

SPEAKER_01 (53:53):
I was thinking about the jumper, now it's a different
one.

SPEAKER_03 (53:54):
V the Asian lady that won Oscars.

SPEAKER_01 (53:57):
And Dustin knows all the movies.

SPEAKER_03 (54:00):
Everything all at once, right?
Okay.
Uh so that movie basically shewas jumping through all these
realities.
Um, and same here, you kind offind the version of yourself
that you want to align with andyou join with that version of
yourself.
And of course, it doesn't work100% of the time.
Right, right.
But then the more you do it, themore you practice it, there's a

(54:21):
chance that one of those timesout of the hundred times will
work, right?
And so did you personallyexperience something closer to
that?
Definitely.
I did.
I had some something.
So one time I forgot my pa Ilost my passport at the airport.
Okay.
Like I was flying to kind oflike Tunis.
Um I was going to South ofFrance.
Yeah.
Uh I was flying Tunis and I wasstopping at Frankfurt and then

(54:43):
uh from LA.
And at the airport in Frankfurt,I just just like lost my
passport.
I don't know.
I was running around trying toget into the flight.
And then it just disp it justdisappeared like into the thin
air.
Like it happens.

SPEAKER_00 (54:58):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 (54:59):
And um yeah, there's nothing I could do, and I'm
stranded in there, and it waslike Friday night.
So I'm there stranded for theweekend because the the embassy
is opening on Monday.
So I'm just like, what am Isupposed to do in Frankfurt?
And I actually had to like comeand see some family in South
France.
I was like, I need to, andthey're only there for a couple
days.

(55:19):
So I'm like, I need to get toNice, like today.

SPEAKER_00 (55:22):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 (55:22):
And it just wasn't happening.
So I went, they gave me a hotel.
I went to the hotel, and I waslike, okay, I'm just gonna do
everything that I have in mypocket, like in terms of like
yeah, in um what is it called?
In my magic bag, right?
In terms of like Oh, I see.
Not not like the in terms oflike the methods.
I'm like, okay, I'm gonna dothis meditation, that

(55:43):
meditation, that meditation, I'mgonna try everything you knew.
Everything I know, yes.
So yeah, I did like the silvermethod and the quantum jumping,
and while I was like imaginingjust going back to the airport,
and because I was going like forsix hours, I was looking for the
passport between all the likepolice stations and everything,
and I just could not.
It just wasn't there.

(56:03):
No one saw it, no one saw it oncamera.
So I'm just like, who well,okay, maybe some people need I
already got my Americanpassport, so it was American
passport.
So I'm like, okay, maybe onesomeone wanted to steal it, but
I'm in Frankfurt, like who?
You know, like that's weird.
Anyway, while um I was like,okay, I'm just gonna come to the
airport and I'm gonna fly.

(56:24):
Everything's gonna be fine.
Like, I'm gonna find a passport,I'm gonna be fine.

SPEAKER_01 (56:28):
And um so you're in a hotel room trying the silver
method, trying the quantumjumping.

SPEAKER_03 (56:34):
I go to the airport at 6 a.m.
That's when the police stationis opening, and they're like,
okay, in the morning we willknow for sure if we get it or
not, if someone brings it back.
If not, it's likely it's gone.
I went there, they didn't seeit.
I was like, I was like, okay, Idon't know what to do.
I was like, you know what, letme just try.
And so I just went to thecounter.
I already had my ticket, right?
Printed out.
I just did not have the passportand they wouldn't let me in,

(56:55):
even though you know it's uhwithin the Shengan area, but
still they were like, okay, youneed a passport to fly.
I was like, you know what, I'mjust gonna try it.
So I was trying to check in.
This lady's like, I don't knowif they're gonna let you in, but
sure, you can just go for andyou know, the second she said,
sure, just try it, like, goodluck.
It was also, I think, the um uhthe FIFA um oh the FIFA or the

(57:19):
FIFA time, so the championship,so it's like it was crazy.
The immigration was crazy, theywere checking everyone very,
very meticulously.
And yeah, I just went in there,and for some reason, where I
went in, it was just themachines, and just scanning my
um ticket, the ticket wasenough, and so there was not a

(57:40):
single person, and literally thewhole flight, uh the the whole
like airport journey from likefrom just coming from the hotel
to Frankfurt Airport and gettingin the airplane, not a single
person stopped me or asked meanything.
So I did one flight, then on theway, and I was like, okay, that
worked.
Uh I I didn't find my passport,but I I got it, you know, there.
Now I need to quantum jumped.

(58:02):
Yeah, now I need to get back toBerlin to get to like apply for
a passport.
Okay, how do I do the secondflight?
And then similar thing happenson the second flight.
No one asks me for a passport upuntil right before the um the
gate.
Yes, no one somehow it's likealso the machines.
I got lucky, and even thoughit's Nice, it's a smaller

(58:23):
airport.
Uh-huh.
Somehow no one was asking foranything.
I was fine with just the ticket,and then like just at the gate,
someone was asking for apassport, and I just kind of
like you know, played a littledumb, a little blonde or
whatever.
I was just like, oh yeah, yeah,it's here.
And then I was just like kind oflike, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 (58:40):
So it worked.
It worked, yeah.
Literally.
So do you think okay, now do youthink it was luck, or do you
think it was the method that youused?

SPEAKER_03 (58:48):
I think both.
I mean, well, the method that Iused it was the lucky self.
Jumping to your lucky self.
Ah.

SPEAKER_01 (58:53):
So it was it was jumping to your lucky self.

SPEAKER_03 (58:55):
Yeah, that one is on Mind Valley, actually.
Um the what?
Mind Valley.
Mind Valley?
Yeah, it's like uh it's like thethe website where you can get
all these like differentmeditation cards.
Okay, Mind Valley.
It's a website where you can getdifferent meditation.
Yeah, I worked for them likewhen I first moved to LA.
Like my my the marketing agencythat I worked for, we did a

(59:17):
project for them, and that's howI knew about them.
And now they kind of got gottenbig within like the spirituality
sector.
Okay.
They're like the number one app.

SPEAKER_01 (59:24):
I'm gonna look into that quantum jumping.

SPEAKER_03 (59:25):
So one of them is the quantum jumping uh forgot
the guy, he's like 80 years old,and he's just like, Oh yeah,
today I want to be a singer, andso I'm gonna quantum jump, and
then all of a sudden he hasperfect pitch, you know, or like
all of a sudden he can paint.
I don't know, like at 80 yearsold, he like gets all these new
skills.
So I would say if you keep doingit, you just need to keep

(59:47):
practicing it, right?

SPEAKER_01 (59:48):
I guess it's also a practice, right?
It's not something you just get,right?
Yeah, happen to have.

SPEAKER_03 (59:52):
I think your your thoughts are energy, so like
it's like I said, what we weretalking about if you keep
complaining that nothing iscoming your way and Everyone
else is getting paid and you'renot getting paid, then it's if
that's what you believe, that'sgonna what's gonna happen.
So if that's the story thatyou're telling yourself, you're
gonna live that live that movie,that script, right?
You know, so if you're tellingyourself, Oh, I'm gonna jump

(01:00:13):
into my best version, it's likea pl even even if you're not
actually jumping throughdimensions, it's like a placebo
effect where you start tobelieve in yourself, you know,
and then things are startingcoming your way.

SPEAKER_01 (01:00:24):
So I wish the logical people, scientific
people who are very skepticalwould listen to this and try.
So let's say if somebody is veryskeptical listening to this
episode right now, what wouldyou tell them?

SPEAKER_03 (01:00:36):
Okay, so uh if you take water, water retains
energy.
Everything is energy, right?
So I think they did a studywhere uh they would take a glass
of water and they would tell itdifferent things.
So one glass of water they saidI hate you, and the one they
said I love you, you know, likeall these different things.

(01:00:56):
I've heard about that.

SPEAKER_01 (01:00:57):
You know what?
I actually was re looking intothat.
It's something about that thewater is intelligent, and I've
heard um uh I've heard an ideaor theory that why they call it
a holy water, if you say prayerover the water, it changes
physically the qualities to bethe holy water.
The molecular structure isliterally changes.

SPEAKER_03 (01:01:19):
Yeah, and you can see it also like if you um if
you freeze that water, then youcan also see uh how it looks
like.
And also if you look, I think atthe different uh like at the
pictures of those molecules, uhsome of them the the ones that
are like with disease orsomething, they look sharper and
just like more dangerous, andthen the ones that are like very

(01:01:43):
um uh what's the word?
Um opposite from dangerous?
Yeah, I guess like opposite fromdisease.
Yeah, they're just like prettyto look at as well.
And I think that water likeretains its molecular structure
and could could get you sick,actually, in a way.
Uh that's one of the things.

SPEAKER_01 (01:02:00):
You know I've heard about it.
I mean, I don't want to say inpublic, but there's a really
famous brand of water, right?
Um liquid death?
Yes, okay.
Liquid death, right?
I don't drink it.
But you don't drink right?
So do you believe that if youput certain words right around
you on the objects you use, it'spsychologically energetic.

(01:02:21):
You can stay away from it.
Right?

SPEAKER_03 (01:02:22):
It kind of gives you.
Even though we all like peoplelike I I sometimes like I jump
between um diets, so it's likesometimes I eat meat, sometimes
I don't.
I feel like in a way we stilleat death when we eat meat, but
then I don't know, but thenliquid death, I stretch to stay
away.
Like right, it's water, but thenit's written on it.

SPEAKER_01 (01:02:41):
Yeah.
And speaking of the qualitiesand water being intelligent,
right?
If you put that, so you'repretty much like what drinking
your own death?

SPEAKER_03 (01:02:48):
Um if not your own death, but it's definitely not
charged.
I don't think it's charged withgreat particles, you know.

SPEAKER_01 (01:02:54):
Right.
Oh, what was sorry, what I wastrying to say is like if we
follow our logic, right?
It's the intention inside thatbottle.

SPEAKER_03 (01:03:02):
Yeah.
No, I I I believe it.
That's why I try not to drink itif if I don't have to.

SPEAKER_01 (01:03:07):
Right.
Yeah.
So what do you what do youdrink?

SPEAKER_03 (01:03:10):
Coconut water.
Coconut water.
That's my favorite.
Yes.
I'm actually really bad at likejust like remembering to eat or
sleep or drink.
Some people have to force mesometimes.
Yeah.
But one thing I can drink allthe time is coconut water.
I love it.

SPEAKER_01 (01:03:22):
That's why I have such wonderful skin.

SPEAKER_03 (01:03:24):
I guess you have glowing.

SPEAKER_01 (01:03:25):
Oh, thank you.
Glowing skin.
It's my highlighter.
It's your high no, it's probablythe everything.
It's probably your energy, youryour energy field.
Well, you have a reallybeautiful energy, and I learned
today a lot.
And I'm definitely gonna do moredigging because I'm really
interested about the universe,about the energy, and with our
previous guests, we also talkabout that it's important to

(01:03:47):
look within, not outwards, andfinding the trends within.
And you just kind of elevated itto the next level.
I'm gonna look into thatinformation.
I hope it was really useful forour listeners and viewers.
And I'm so grateful for havingyou as my guests on the basic
show.
It was really wonderful to youknow step in a little bit into
the alienatrix universe and geta little bit, you know, uh taste

(01:04:11):
of your world, of your universe.
Thank you for sharing and thankyou for listening.
Thank you for beautifulconversation.
Today we had Nina Hawkins checkher work at on Instagram at Nina
Sense, right?

SPEAKER_03 (01:04:21):
Yes.

SPEAKER_01 (01:04:22):
Well, thank you for being here.

SPEAKER_03 (01:04:23):
Thank you so much for having me.
That was a pleasure.
Thank you.
Bye.
Bye bye.

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NINA HAWKINS: The Human Side of AI Creation | EPISODE 21

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}NINA HAWKINS: The Human Side of AI Creation | EPISODE 21