Suuvi — cello prodigy, Juilliard graduate, and fearless electronic music creator — shares her remarkable story of transformation. From living under crushing pressure as a child performer to using music for shadow work and deep trauma healing, Suuvi opens up like never before.
Tune in as she reveals:
• 🎻 Life as a cello prodigy accepted into Juilliard at age 10
• 🖤 Why she left the elite classical world to reinvent herself completely
• 🧘♀️ How silent Vipassana meditation rewired her brain and ended her insomnia
• 🎧 The neuroscience behind her new album Dark Therapy — designed to guide listeners through deep introspection
• 🔥 How she uses sound to process PTSD and catalyze radical self-discovery
Known for haunting compositions that blend classical cello with Berlin techno and ambient textures, Suuvi (@suuvimusic) is carving out a raw, genre-defying path that challenges what music — and healing — can be.
🎧 New episodes of The BASIC Show every Wednesday. Hit follow and leave us a review if you enjoyed this deep dive!
🖤 Follow Suuvi: @suuvimusic
🎵 Listen to Dark Therapy: suuvimusic.com
💫 Connect with us: thebasicshow.com
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
SPEAKER_00 (00:00):
So you were accepted into Juilliards at age 10.
I internalized from a very youngage that hard work was the only
thing that mattered and leisureand play were bad.
And for me, everything wasfocused around achievement.
I was like 14 years old.
There was one day when I wastraveling from Europe to the
States that I couldn't practicethe cello and I was freaking out
(00:22):
because I didn't practice forone day.
I was 27 where I knew that I hadto make a huge, huge difference
in my life.
I changed my name.
I, you know, I did all thesethings.
I got sober that year.
Welcome to
SPEAKER_02 (00:35):
The Basic Show with Victoria
SPEAKER_01 (00:43):
Machado.
Welcome, Suvi.
How do your friends actuallycall you?
SPEAKER_00 (00:54):
They call me Suvi.
They
SPEAKER_01 (00:55):
call you Suvi?
SPEAKER_00 (00:56):
Unless they're old friends.
I have a couple old friends fromNew York who call me Sofia.
SPEAKER_01 (01:00):
Sofia?
SPEAKER_00 (01:00):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (01:01):
What about like your loved ones?
SPEAKER_00 (01:03):
My parents call me Sofia.
I don't think my parents have...
I've actually never directlytalked to them about my name
change.
I mean, I think they knowbecause they follow me on
Instagram, but maybe they'vejust chosen to not talk about it
and not acknowledge it.
SPEAKER_01 (01:20):
Wait, did you actually officially change your
name?
SPEAKER_00 (01:21):
Not legally, but pretty much in every area of my
life.
SPEAKER_01 (01:25):
So it's your like alter ego.
SPEAKER_00 (01:26):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (01:27):
Your extra little spicy identity.
SPEAKER_00 (01:29):
It was supposed to be an alter ego, but then I
realized that it was actuallyalmost like a new person I had
stepped into being.
And then it didn't actually makesense to be Sophia anymore.
It was almost like a chapter ofmy life that I felt like I
closed and I wanted to let goof.
And it's actually sometimesconfusing when people call me
Sophia.
Like I was on a Zoom call acouple months ago and I remember
(01:49):
someone said Sophia and I waslike actually confused.
I was like, who are we talking
SPEAKER_01 (01:54):
about?
Who's here?
Sophia with us in the room rightnow.
Right now?
SPEAKER_00 (01:57):
Yeah, and then I realized they were talking to
me.
I was like,
SPEAKER_01 (02:01):
ooh, okay.
So walk us through, how did thename change come along?
Why?
SPEAKER_00 (02:05):
Yeah, so basically, I had been thinking about it for
a while.
The reason was actually, so Ihad a whole career as a
classical musician, and it was avery traditional, strict,
conservative classical career.
And what I really wanted to dowas make electronic music.
So I was trying to figure outhow I could do it.
(02:26):
publicly without messing with myexisting public image.
So originally I thought about itfor about six months and I had
planned to basically create ananonymous alter ego called Suvi
under which I would releasemusic that wasn't classical
music.
But by the time I actually didthe name change, I realized that
(02:49):
I just didn't actually want tobe a classical musician at all.
So what happened was it justbecame a new chapter of my life.
SPEAKER_01 (02:57):
So how long have you been a classical musician?
SPEAKER_00 (03:00):
Since I was two.
And I would say it's not thatI'm not a classical musician
anymore.
I think there's this binary, Ithink, in classical training
where you're either a classicalmusician or not a classical
musician.
It's a skill that doesn't goaway.
I started when I was two yearsold.
I trained for 16 years inconservatory.
So it's not like I forgot, butthere is a very sort of
(03:23):
traditional narrow lane for whatpeople expect a classical
musician to be and do that I wasvery much in for the first part
of my life.
And I just knew that I had nointerest in being in that lane
and being that person.
So for me, in order to do it, Ireally had to actually create a
whole new identity, which reallywas actually my real self that I
(03:47):
was stepping into.
I felt like when I was trying tofulfill that image of what a
classical musician should be, Iwas actually...
really kind of diminishingmyself and molding myself into
something that other peoplewanted me to be.
And nowadays, I feel actuallymore myself as Suvi than I ever
did as Sofia.
SPEAKER_01 (04:04):
So you were accepted into Juilliard's at age 10.
And I did some little research.
And for those who don't know,apparently, Juilliard accepts
fewer than 8% of applicants,which is making it harder to get
into than Harvard.
And celebrities like ViolaDavis, Robin Williams, Adam
Driver and Jessica Chastain wentto jail.
(04:26):
I don't know if that's true.
I don't know if it's Wikipedia.
I don't
SPEAKER_00 (04:29):
know about the celebrities, but the acceptance
rate might be true.
SPEAKER_01 (04:34):
Chat told me that.
SPEAKER_00 (04:36):
Really?
But I love ChatGPT.
I talk to ChatGPT more thananybody else.
Chat is everybody's buddy.
I know.
It's becoming a problem for me.
I think I'm addicted to ChatGPT.
My friends, have you seen thosememes?
It's like,
SPEAKER_01 (04:48):
oh, did we live
SPEAKER_00 (04:48):
before?
Yeah, like those memes of thegirl like hand in hand with,
chat GPT and it's like the loveof their life.
That's my friend sent me thatmeme.
It
SPEAKER_01 (04:56):
is the truth right now.
But anyway, bottom line, it's areally prestigious school.
Yes.
So you went to a veryprestigious school at a very
young age.
How did it feel for you?
Because 10 years old, I mean,it's like you, a little baby who
just want to be nourished andplay with her friends in the
sandbox.
So how did you feel?
SPEAKER_00 (05:14):
Did you go
SPEAKER_01 (05:15):
by yourself or?
SPEAKER_00 (05:16):
Yeah, I went by myself.
It was, it was funny becauseactually my parents kind of
tricked me into getting intojewelry.
I didn't know what jewelry was,obviously.
I was actually nine years oldwhen they told me I was going to
audition.
And they basically told me thatif I went and played this
audition, it was the firstaudition I ever took, I didn't
(05:37):
even know what that was, theywould take me to see a movie
afterwards.
And I was just excited to seethis movie.
So I went in, I remember I thinkit was like eight in the morning
I played, and then I wasaccepted and I started studying
there.
And I think that was a really...
big moment for my life, probablybigger than I understood at the
(05:58):
time, because even though Ididn't have the vocabulary to
articulate this, I had beenplaying cello since I was two.
But at that point, it reallybecame my profession and my
career because I was training tobe a professional and training
to compete as a professional.
And that put a lot of pressureon me.
I remember it was, on one hand,very refreshing to suddenly be
(06:24):
in a very competitiveenvironment where everybody was
operating at this really,really, really high caliber
because I had always been verydisciplined and had very high
standards for myself.
So I didn't feel like I was theonly one who was like this
anymore.
But then on the other hand, Iwas acutely aware that I was not
the only one and there was a lotof competition.
(06:44):
And I would say that I think atthe time, there wasn't as much
of a conversation aboutself-care and mental health and
all these other parts ofdeveloping as a person that we
are, I think, as a generationnow more vocal about.
(07:07):
At the time, kind of overnight,the only thing that became
important to me wasoverachieving.
It put a lot of pressure on me.
(07:32):
Because I was so competitivewith myself, I was never really
competitive with others, but Iwas extremely competitive with
myself and holding myself tosuper...
The worst
SPEAKER_01 (07:39):
critic,
SPEAKER_00 (07:40):
yeah?
Yeah, I was my worst critic.
I just remember overnight, I hadthis intense, intense pressure
to suddenly perform at my beststandard all the time.
And that shaped the rest of mylife in a way that I guess is
not...
normal for the typical10-year-old to experience.
Definitely not typical.
(08:00):
Yeah, and it was interesting tobe in this elite environment
because we were all behavingthat way.
We all wanted to be the best.
And I think for me, it wasinteresting because there are a
lot of things that Iinternalized at the time, which
now as an adult, I have toreprogram in myself.
For example, I internalized froma very young age that hard work
(08:22):
was the only thing that matteredand leisure and play were bad.
So there was no concept of play.
There was no concept of fun.
There was no concept of timeoff.
And for me, everything wasfocused around achievement.
And that's something that I'vereally had to unravel as an
adult because for a long time, Iwould feel guilty.
I remember even when I was like14 years old, there was one day
(08:45):
when I was traveling from Europeto the States that I couldn't
practice the cello.
And I was freaking out because Ididn't practice for one day.
It wasn't until probably mymid-20s that I allowed myself to
actually ever take any time off.
And nowadays I'm much betterabout it.
I
SPEAKER_01 (09:01):
have so many questions.
I didn't want to interrupt you.
Tell us, what is...
What do you mean by saying eliteenvironment?
Like, what was it?
To me, it's some kind of like aHarry Potter school, you know?
Yeah.
Wizards and this crazy scheduleand all this, you know,
professors.
What was it for you?
What did you feel?
Describe us a little bit whatthat environment was for you.
SPEAKER_00 (09:24):
I think it was just being around a standard of
excellence that was implicitlyjust prevalent everywhere.
You know...
there were so many people whowere playing at such a high
level and competing at a highlevel.
And we were basically just allgrouped together.
And there was this, I think,especially when I started
(09:50):
competing, because I think Istarted competing
internationally when I was 12 or13.
Then it was quite literally, wewere in competition with one
another.
It was this feeling of, youknow, even though These people
were your friends.
They were also your competition.
So it was kind of like if youimagine like taking, you know, a
couple hundred kids who are allcompeting for the Olympics and
(10:11):
putting them in the same place.
It was the same thing, but formusic.
SPEAKER_01 (10:15):
So
SPEAKER_00 (10:15):
what
SPEAKER_01 (10:15):
was it
SPEAKER_00 (10:16):
like?
SPEAKER_01 (10:17):
I just imagine it in the movie, like you can't sit
with us.
Like, how did you make friends?
How did you interact?
Were you just going to classes,studying, go back and
practicing?
Practicing, what kind ofinteraction did you have between
each other?
SPEAKER_00 (10:29):
So I was actually a little bit of a bad girl.
I skipped a lot of classes.
We want those stories, the badgirl stories.
Yeah, I remember.
I think I was actually almostkicked out when I was...
maybe 13 or 14 because theycaught me climbing on the roof.
Climbing on the roof?
Yeah, they were doingconstruction in the building and
one of the construction workersleft a door open that had access
(10:50):
to the roof.
So I went up onto the roofbecause I was curious and I
didn't realize that there weresecurity cameras everywhere.
So like maybe two weeks later, Igot called in to the dean's
office and they just put thephotos down and they're like,
what is...
I want those photos framed.
I know.
I mean, they must still havethem.
But But yeah, I remember theybasically, yeah, that was not a
(11:14):
fun meeting, but they basicallyput me on probation.
But I was skipping class a lot.
I was actually skipping classbecause I was secretly studying
art at MoMA down the street,well, a couple blocks downtown.
So I used to actually, Iremember like what was my...
lunch and practice break in theafternoon, I would actually
(11:35):
sneak out and go to MoMA tospend time in the museum and
then come back.
And then there were also just,yeah, I was kind of, it was
funny because I was notactually, I personally think I
was one of those students.
I would say I was extremelytalented, but extremely, um,
(11:56):
strong-willed and determined todo things my own way when I was
young.
So therefore, my teachers had avery hard time with me.
I remember actually verydistinctly my cello teacher,
who's now a very dear friend,and I studied with her basically
from age nine to 20, almost 26when I graduated from my
post-grad.
(12:16):
I remember one time in themiddle of a lesson, she just
walked out and she's like, Ijust need a And she's like, I
don't know what to do becauseyou're like so, so, so talented,
but so, so, so difficult.
What did you do?
I just wouldn't listen.
Were you asking questions?
I would just kind of, I had myown, you know, with classical
(12:38):
music, there's, there's a way ofdoing things.
Okay.
And, um, I just had my own way.
SPEAKER_01 (12:44):
Yeah, you just were a rebellion, huh?
SPEAKER_00 (12:45):
Yeah, from already in school.
And then I remember, you know, Iwas kicked out of orchestra one
time because I came in wearinglike, I went through a goth
phase when I was maybe 12 or 13.
I can
SPEAKER_01 (12:54):
see that, yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (12:55):
Yeah, I was coming in in like, you know, panda eye
makeup and like Nirvana t-shirtsand black nail polish and...
I got sent to CVS to go get nailpolish remover.
They were like, you can't behere like this.
SPEAKER_01 (13:07):
We had something like that back in my culture.
You couldn't wear a skirt past acertain level, things like that.
But did you, were you supposedto wear a uniform?
SPEAKER_00 (13:13):
We didn't have a uniform, but I think we had
dress codes.
SPEAKER_01 (13:16):
I did have
SPEAKER_00 (13:16):
a dress code.
And I think I definitelyviolated them.
But it was funny because when Icame back from my artist
diploma, like I went to Europefor my undergrad and my grad,
and then I came back from myartist diploma when I was 23.
And then I fully leaned intothis like wild persona where I
almost made it like my missionto come in every day and as out
(13:38):
there of an outfit as possible.
What kind of outfit?
Just whatever.
The craziest.
Yeah.
I went through all sorts ofphases.
Like, you know, sometimes itwould be like ultra glam.
Other times it would be like afur coat that was like different
colors.
That's my style.
Yeah.
It was like all over the place.
And I kind of It became a thing.
I would do like crazy makeup.
(13:58):
Like I would do like, you know,like 10 colors of eyeshadow and
like gold eyeliner and all thisstuff.
And I think it annoyed a lot ofmy teachers, but they kind of
realized that I was going tokeep doing this.
Do
SPEAKER_01 (14:11):
you think it was a cry for attention?
I
SPEAKER_00 (14:13):
think it was.
I think it was a cry forattention.
I think it was also me alreadyat that point feeling very, very
frustrated with the fact thatthere was so much conformism and
I was determined to, you know,break the rules as much as
possible.
I remember when I was in myfirst couple years at Juilliard,
one of the things that wasdefinitely in the dress code was
(14:36):
I don't think it was evenexplicitly listed, but you were
just expected to wear shoes onstage.
And so I made it a thing where Iwould never wear shoes on stage
when I came back from my artistdiploma.
SPEAKER_01 (14:47):
Bad girl.
SPEAKER_00 (14:48):
Yeah, and I started working with a lot of dancers
and I justified it by, you know,the dancers are not wearing
shoes.
SPEAKER_01 (14:54):
But I've heard the thing that you feel more
connected to music and feel moregrounded.
I've actually seen a fewartists, musicians who perform
on stage with no shoes.
SPEAKER_00 (15:03):
Yeah, no, I love it.
And actually, it's interestingbecause Because I am wearing
very high heels right now.
SPEAKER_01 (15:08):
Feel free to take
SPEAKER_00 (15:10):
them off.
No, but I do feel that whenyou're grounded flat on the
floor, you do feel much morecentered.
And I actually, I've hadexperiences.
Yeah, there was definitely aphase where I was wearing really
high heels when I was playingcello.
And it could be scary in thesense that you could feel a
(15:30):
little bit unbalanced.
UNKNOWN (15:32):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (15:32):
And before we started the interview, you told
me you actually were wearingsuper high heels and you broke
your ankle.
SPEAKER_00 (15:39):
Yeah, I broke three bones in my ankle.
So it's actually I always say itwas like the best thing that
ever happened to me in a waywhen I moved to L.A.
because I was going through aphase where I wasn't sure where
I wanted to live and I had cometo L.A.
just like on a whim.
And the first couple monthshere, I was barely here.
I was touring.
And then I came back after maybethree months and thought, okay,
(16:00):
maybe I'll give this city a trypermanently for like six more
months.
But then what happened was thevery first night that I decided
to go out and celebrate with myfriends, we tried to go to a
club downtown and I was wearinga like massive stripper heels
(16:20):
with, they were like platformheels that had a very, very
narrow stiletto that was shapedlike the barrel of a gun.
And yeah, and they had likebullets all around the side.
They were like the best shoesever.
You're some
SPEAKER_01 (16:33):
fashionista, huh?
SPEAKER_00 (16:34):
I know.
So I was so excited.
I was like, I've never wornthese.
It's my first night out in LA.
I'm going to step out of thisUber.
And then I saw a puddle.
So I was like, I can't get myshoes wet.
So I tried to step over it.
And instead I lost balance andended up with 14 pins in my
ankle which sucked in the moment
SPEAKER_01 (16:50):
welcome to LA
SPEAKER_00 (16:52):
right away American dream yeah but the great thing
is they kept me in LA because Icouldn't walk for three months
so I got stuck in LA had torelearn how to walk and then by
that point I was like okay I'mliving here my stuff is here
SPEAKER_01 (17:04):
yeah so certain things maybe happen for a reason
right good or bad just for youto be here do you see yourself
here in LA down the line longterm
SPEAKER_00 (17:13):
yeah so it's actually now finally become the
place where I've lived thelongest Which is only three
years, but for me that's longbecause I basically moved almost
every one to two years for myentire life since I left home at
16.
But yeah, I was actually reallyamazed because I actually
re-signed my lease contract.
(17:35):
about two weeks ago for thesecond time.
And last year it was the firsttime I ever re-signed a lease.
I never lived anywhere for morethan one year.
So it was like a big moment.
I remember like when I re-signedit the first time I had this
whole panic where I was like, Ifeel like I need to move, like
just because I always do.
And my friends were like, well,where are you going to go if you
move?
I was like, I don't know, likesomewhere else, but I just, I've
(17:56):
never signed, re-signed atleast.
It felt like a massive likecommitment, but.
And
SPEAKER_01 (18:01):
you've lived in so many places, especially in
Europe.
I'm surprised you didn't want tostay like in London or in Paris.
SPEAKER_00 (18:07):
Well, so I was, I went to Paris first and I loved
Paris.
And then I went to Berlin and Iloved Berlin for different
reasons.
But I think I was, you know, LAwas somewhere I never thought I
would end up.
I, if you had asked me, I thinkat any point, Before I moved to
LA, if I would live here, I hadno interest in the city.
SPEAKER_01 (18:25):
But
SPEAKER_00 (18:26):
what happens was by the time I finished my 16 years
of conservatory, I realized thatwhat interested me more than
anything was popular music.
And by pop music, I meaneverything that wasn't classical
music.
And so I figured the place tocome to learn about that was Los
Angeles.
SPEAKER_01 (18:46):
I would never think Los Angeles about that.
I would maybe think like NewYork more.
Really?
No,
SPEAKER_00 (18:50):
because the whole pop music industry is here and
there's just so much happeninghere with the music scene.
So it was interesting becausewhen I came here, I literally
felt like I had been raisedAmish and I was like seeing
electricity for the first timebecause I came from a world of,
you know, playing withorchestras and everything's
acoustic, like no micing, woodeninstruments.
And I got here and I remember myvery first week, I sat down to
(19:13):
do a session with a hip hopproducer and I had never seen a
DAW, which is Digital AudioWorkstation, which is how
everybody...
SPEAKER_01 (19:20):
Sorry, you haven't seen what?
SPEAKER_00 (19:22):
Digital Audio Workstation.
It's how everybody makes musicnow.
And I remember almost feelinglike I had been cheated in my
education.
I was like, how did I go through16 years of...
what's supposedly the bestconservatory training and I
don't know how basic musictechnology works.
And so it literally felt like Ihad been raised Amish in a
(19:44):
musical sense.
It's like you have to
SPEAKER_01 (19:45):
start again from ground zero to learn now this
technology.
SPEAKER_00 (19:49):
Yeah, and it was crazy because I remember just
looking at it and I was like, Ihave no idea what this is.
I had never played with mic.
I had never recorded myself.
I had never used any sort ofcontemporary music tech.
But the one thing that I knew isthat I loved popular music.
I had...
Actually, I remember my lastcouple of years at Juilliard, I
used to listen to Eminem while Iwas practicing cello in the
(20:13):
practice rooms, which everyonethought was really weird.
Weird choice.
I know.
And like Brockhampton and MacMiller.
I was like a big hip hop fan atthe time.
I mean, still am, but I wasreally going through like a hip
hop phase.
And I remember distinctly like Iwould be practicing and at the
same time have my AirPods in andbe listening to Eminem.
Slim Shady.
So it was like this dichotomy.
(20:34):
But so even though I got hereand I didn't understand how to
make pop music in any way, Iknew that I loved it.
And I just wanted to understandit better.
And I'm the kind of person wholearns by doing.
So I just said yes toeverything.
Like within a couple of months,I was touring with like R&B
artists, electronic artists, hiphop artists.
And from there, I just picked upthings and learned.
(20:56):
And after...
The first couple years I startedproducing myself and now I'm a
full-on producer and just thismorning made an EDM track.
SPEAKER_01 (21:06):
Just this morning, sipping my morning coffee,
creating some tracks.
SPEAKER_00 (21:11):
It's not where I thought I would end up at all.
Three and a half years ago whenI finished at Juilliard, if you
had told me that I'd be sittinghere making beats, I
SPEAKER_01 (21:22):
would not.
It's hard for me to imagine toobecause most of the videos I've
seen of you online is just youso proper on the world stages
you know beautiful amazing musicand I was like wow I cannot
imagine you in any other way
SPEAKER_00 (21:35):
well it's not released yet so actually I'm
releasing an electronic album ina couple months okay it's gonna
be slowly singles are gonna comeout this summer and then the
full album will be out in
SPEAKER_01 (21:46):
the fall okay so let's talk about that I want to
talk a little bit later butsince you brought it up is it
the dark therapy okay so tell meabout it I listened to one track
and I didn't want to stop it'sjust such a crazy new is this
the one on your website right Itwas just so interesting.
Well, you had that animation,but I was just listening.
I've never heard anything likethis in my life before.
Can you tell me a little bitmore what's behind it?
(22:07):
What's the story?
What does it mean?
SPEAKER_00 (22:09):
Yeah, so, well, it's interesting because dark therapy
kind of fulfills two things forme.
On one hand, I guess I can talkabout it from a musical sense,
first of
SPEAKER_03 (22:21):
all.
SPEAKER_00 (22:22):
I knew that I wanted to...
move into electronic music.
And that was something that Ihad known for a long time.
And where I felt challenged was,like you said, how do I
transition from what people knowof me playing classical cello in
this very proper sense to theworld of electronic music, which
I've been listening to forprobably more than 10 years.
(22:46):
I mean, I lived in Berlin as ateenager, so techno is like a
big part of my soul.
So for a long time, I'veactually been making electronic
music for a while, but I didn'tknow how I could basically just
drop a techno track and expectmy audience to follow or to
understand where I was going.
(23:07):
So I knew that I wanted to dosomething that fused those two
worlds.
And musically, that's what darktherapy is because it was
interesting when we were makingit, we were just mixing it the
other day and I was talking tothe engineer and I was like, I
don't even know what genre tocategorize this as because it's
not classical, but it has cello,And he was like, this is
(23:28):
electronic.
SPEAKER_01 (23:29):
It's like New Age or something, kind of?
I guess it could be New
SPEAKER_00 (23:33):
Age.
It could be classified as, somepeople have described it as
trance or ambient.
But to me, it also does havebeats.
So it's kind of, honestly, I dothink it sort of lives in its
own world.
But increasingly, I also thinkwe live in a world where genres,
like everything, are blending.
I mean, I've always felt verymuch in between cultures being,
(23:54):
you know, Cuban and Chinese andhaving lived in the States and
Europe.
I feel like I belong to allthese different parts of the
world.
And artistically, I think thatwas a big part of my dilemma as
well, feeling like, where do Ibelong?
Who am I?
Because I was genuinelypassionate about all these
different kinds of music, and Ididn't know how to amalgamate
them all.
And I think I realized over timethat what made sense was not to
(24:17):
try to make myself either or,yes or no, like I can only do
classical, I can't do classical,I'm doing this or that, and
instead just build worlds thatwere my own world and they could
be anything I wanted them to be.
And I think, you know, a genreis something that we have to,
it's a label, we have to givesomething because of the way
music is uploaded to a DSP.
(24:39):
But ultimately, I think we livein a very genre-less world.
SPEAKER_01 (24:45):
Genre-less?
What does it mean?
SPEAKER_00 (24:47):
Genre-less?
Like no genre?
SPEAKER_01 (24:48):
There's no genre?
SPEAKER_00 (24:50):
Yeah, I think there's, you know, in so many
ways, things aren't, even inlike food, like I compared a lot
to food, like food has, there'sso many fusion cuisines now.
I think increasingly, you know,with food, globalization, we've
all influenced each other somuch.
I see elements of one thing inanother thing all the time,
(25:13):
whether it comes to like food ormusic or art or fashion.
And I think it's, it's, um, Youknow, there aren't as many rules
now about like you can only stayin this lane or this lane.
SPEAKER_01 (25:23):
But sometimes it could be for worse.
I mean, if you talk about food,I mean, I hate like fried sushi
and things like that.
I haven't had fried sushi.
Like if you go, let's say,somewhere like in Europe,
certain places where they don'thave access to fresh fish, they
would just make some reallyhorrific things and you would
think, no, just go back to theoriginal, go back to the basics.
SPEAKER_00 (25:45):
Well, that was also part of the challenge because
with dark therapy, you know,that's another thing that's been
really challenging for mebecause the idea of, you know,
classical crossover is somethingthat has been done for a long
time and it's something that Ipersonally don't like.
I, for a long time, was really,really hesitant to do anything
that involved the cello and anyother genre of music and that
(26:08):
was originally why I kind ofwanted to divide the two
personas just because I thinkthere's been a lot of what has
been traditionally categorizedas classical crossover music,
then honestly, I think it justsounds like a bad version of
both genres, like you weresaying with fried sushi.
I mean,
SPEAKER_01 (26:28):
yeah, here you're coming from.
But at the same time, you'recreating something new, but
you're also...
You're creating something new,but you having your own twist.
And it's because you had so manydifferent experiences, right?
They impacted the way you seethings because you had exposure
to so many different cultures,to so many different styles and
(26:52):
disciplines when you werestudying.
So I guess once you reachcertain level of knowledge, you
can break the rules, right?
So you have the right to breakthe rules because you already
went through the old, you wentthrough the classical textbook,
right?
You went through all the rules.
Now you're saying, okay, I'mbored.
I've done it.
I know how it works.
(27:12):
Now I want to experiment and dosomething different.
But you have the right to do it,right?
If I do it, I'm like, okay, youjust don't know what you're
doing.
SPEAKER_00 (27:20):
Totally.
And that's something, I'msomeone who really, really feels
strongly about having artisticintegrity in anything I do.
So one of the reasons why Iwaited so long to put out
anything like this is that Ireally wanted to take the time
to study electronic music.
And that's what I did forseveral years.
I mean, I was listening to itsince a really young age.
And like I said, when I lived inBerlin, I was heavily immersed
(27:43):
in the European techno scene andthe IDM scene.
And dubstep, all these thingsreally heavily influenced me.
But for me, it's alwaysimportant that I'm not making a
bastardization of something.
And so...
It was a tough challenge for me,you know, to create something
(28:05):
new that I don't want to sayit's a new genre in itself, but
it doesn't sound like, I hope,like a bad ripoff of two
different genres and trying to,you know, like...
take a cupcake and a donut andlike...
Just for the sake of it, right?
Exactly.
Just
SPEAKER_01 (28:23):
for the sake of
SPEAKER_00 (28:24):
it.
Yeah, I think there has to be areason to do it.
And for me, it came from a veryauthentic place.
When I started writing it,actually the whole album came
really, really naturally to me.
What happened was there was oneday I was literally just, I woke
up, I meditated and I got theidea for this one track, which
was the first single, which isactually the one you
SPEAKER_03 (28:43):
heard.
SPEAKER_00 (28:44):
And I wrote it out and about...
like one hour.
It was a really, really quickprocess.
And I was kind of justexperimenting.
I had this idea to do somethingin D minor with a lot of drones.
And then that whole track kindof emerged almost exactly the
way it is in the finishedversion.
And I sent it to two friends andI was like, I just made this
(29:05):
thing this morning.
What do you think about this?
And they're like, oh my God,we're obsessed.
Like make more.
And then the whole album kind ofalmost like wrote itself very
naturally in about two or threeweeks.
It was a very quick, short,intense writing process.
But what you never see behindthat is there were probably
like, you know, a dozen at leastfailed launch attempts to come
(29:28):
up with an idea for a conceptfor an album before that in the
last maybe two years.
And I had started and scrappedso many projects that just
didn't work.
But I think when something worksand you're in that flow state
and it just comes naturally,you're like, okay, this is it.
We're doing this.
SPEAKER_01 (29:43):
Do you think you had it like in the back of your mind
for a long time and then BecauseI can't imagine, like, first of
all, I can't imagine how towrite music.
Do you have this melody in yourhead and you just put it, you
know, in notes?
Or you're first like, oh, let mejust play around and throw some,
you know, throw some notes intothe pot and see what it's going
to sound?
And the second question is, whatI was trying to ask initially,
(30:08):
sorry, I have so many questions.
You said you tried to work onthis album for two years.
You think it was somewhere inthe back of your head in your
subconscious and then when yousaid you were meditating,
somehow it appeared.
Do you think it was just luck oryou think because you are
subconsciously thinking about itand it just found an avenue that
one specific day and just cameout?
(30:30):
I don't know if it makes sense.
SPEAKER_00 (30:31):
No, it makes more sense.
So it's actually interestingbecause the whole origin for
this album actually happenedlast summer.
So last summer I did my firstVipassana meditation retreat
which is a 10-day silentmeditation
SPEAKER_01 (30:42):
Okay.
SPEAKER_00 (30:44):
And during that time, I meditated for 11 and a
half hours every day.
11
SPEAKER_01 (30:48):
hours meditate?
SPEAKER_00 (30:50):
Yeah.
So you meditate 11 and a halfhours and you don't speak and
you don't have any contact withanybody for 10 days.
I
SPEAKER_01 (30:56):
cannot meditate for two minutes.
11
SPEAKER_00 (30:59):
hours?
Are you
SPEAKER_01 (30:59):
like in trance?
SPEAKER_00 (31:01):
By the end of it, you kind of do feel like you're
in like another world.
But it was interesting because Ihad this...
experience about halfwaythrough, they put me in what
they called a meditation cell,which was like a tiny, maybe
like two by four room withnothing except a cushion on the
(31:22):
ground and no light.
And I remember it was such aninteresting experience for me
because when I was sitting inthat meditation cell, I had the
deepest, most powerfulmeditations and I started
hearing phantom music.
Like I heard music constantly inmy head.
And I remember thinking, like,what is going on?
(31:43):
Am I losing my mind?
Like, have I been in here toolong?
But it was something that reallystuck with me.
And then I went back to life.
You know, you come out of yourmeditation retreat, a million
things are happening.
I was super busy, didn't reallyhave time to think about it.
A couple months later, when Iwas meditating, again, the day I
(32:03):
wrote the first track, Iremember I came out of the
meditation and I thought aboutthat experience.
And then I immediately textedone of my friends who's a
neuroscientist who studiesaltered states of consciousness.
And I was like, you know, isthere a correlation between
darkness and music andmeditation?
And Interestingly, he wasactually studying dark exposure
(32:26):
at the time in his lab.
So he had me come over and wespent about four hours just
having a really longconversation about basically how
darkness enhanced listening canactually help things like PTSD
and depression and ADHD andanxiety.
So I basically said, okay, Iwant to do a clinical study to
(32:49):
substantiate this hypothesiswhat do you need from me and he
said let me if you give me youknow 30 minutes of music i can
run this study for you so i wentback and wrote dark therapy
SPEAKER_01 (33:02):
well i've heard about something like that
because once you remove some ofthe senses right so you remove
the sense of vision yeah so youpretty much um accelerate and
give power to other senses whichis hearing i guess right yeah so
i would assume that's what iwanted to ask you so dark
therapy be because we didn'tclarify it in the beginning,
it's listening to music in thedarkness, correct me if I'm
(33:26):
wrong, it has specific frequencyor something that impacts you in
a sense?
Yeah,
SPEAKER_00 (33:32):
so I had a lot of extended conversations with the
neuroscience team.
They have been studying musicand sound and how it affects the
brain for a long time.
Basically about how certaintonalities, certain BPMs,
certain rhythmic patterns affectyour state of being.
And so all the compositions werevery carefully crafted around
those parameters and they'remeant to take you into this very
(33:54):
deep introspective journey Sothis particular album for me, I
made it with the concept ofdoing deep shadow work, which is
something I've done a lot of.
SPEAKER_01 (34:03):
What does it mean, deep shadow work?
SPEAKER_00 (34:05):
Shadow work is essentially where you reflect
upon and process the dark sidesof your past.
So the trauma, the things thatyou haven't healed, things that
you're maybe ignoring.
And for me, as someone who wasrecovering from PTSD, it was
really important for me toaddress a lot of my past trauma
and make peace with it and, youknow, allow myself to let go of
(34:27):
the past in order to moveforward and so I always thought
about this concept you know theonly way out is in and to me
what that means is you have togo inward first and understand
yourself before you can actuallymove on so the whole album is
meant to take you on this deepintrospective inner journey that
(34:48):
allows you to be in the statethat's optimized for doing your
shadow work and for deepemotional release and my hope is
that people who listen to it canface those aspects of themselves
and hopefully come out of itwith a little bit more levity
and clarity.
SPEAKER_01 (35:04):
I mean, you say it's such simple words, but it sounds
so complex.
I mean, I cannot imagine.
What are the first moves?
What are the first steps?
for anybody who has noexperience whatsoever to emerge
and to get closer to yourexperience?
Because I can't imagine myselfjust sitting in a room, closing
my eyes and be like, okay, nowI'm going to like deep work and
(35:27):
I'm going to analyze all mytraumas.
I feel like, what are the tools?
Like, right?
What are the first steps, simplethings we can start with before
going into that
SPEAKER_00 (35:37):
deep subconscious?
Yeah, no, that's maybe a...
SPEAKER_01 (35:40):
I mean, you clearly have done a
SPEAKER_00 (35:41):
lot of work.
Definitely way more advanced.
Yeah, so...
it's interesting because I usedto be the kind of person I could
not meditate for years andyears.
Everybody in my familymeditated.
My aunt is a meditation teacher.
They were all trying to get meto meditate and I was like all
over the place.
I had no groundedness.
That's
SPEAKER_01 (35:57):
me.
SPEAKER_00 (35:58):
Yeah.
I used to be, I mean, I used tobe like a kite that you had to
try to like get back down to
SPEAKER_03 (36:03):
earth.
SPEAKER_00 (36:04):
It was super flighty, super spontaneous, like
all over the place.
And my energy was super, supererratic.
And it got to a point where Irealized that I was actually
running away from myself.
I was constantly distractingmyself with things all around me
to not face myself.
And I actually startedmeditating.
I had soft launches for years.
(36:26):
I would do meditation classes.
I would try meditation apps.
I would do it for a couple ofdays and then always fall off
the bandwagon.
But then when I was 27, for mybirthday, I gifted myself TM
lessons.
So TM stands for TranscendentalMeditation.
It's a very popular meditationclass.
I heard
SPEAKER_01 (36:44):
about that a little
SPEAKER_00 (36:45):
bit.
Yeah, and I got to the pointbecause I had such bad insomnia
at the time for probably, Iwould say...
probably since I was 10 or so.
I
SPEAKER_01 (36:55):
mean, excuse me, your brain has to hold five
languages.
You speak all the skills anddefinitely insomnia, like your
brain constantly in the workmode, probably even when you're
sleeping.
SPEAKER_00 (37:05):
Totally.
I used to wake up in the middleof the night with ideas and like
write 3000 word emails to peoplewith the ideas I was having.
And people are like, okay.
Yeah.
So, so my brain was always sooveractive.
I felt like I could never turnit off.
And my insomnia was so bad.
And because I couldn't sleep,then I was anxious during the
day and it was like a neverending cycle and several friends
(37:27):
had recommended TM to me.
And finally I was like, okay, Ihave to do this.
And I did the training andimmediately it changed my life.
Like my insomnia went away.
Um, and TM is, you know, youpractice twice a day for 20
minutes, which sounded crazy.
I was coming from like nomeditation and running around
all over the place to like,
SPEAKER_01 (37:43):
so what is the technique?
SPEAKER_00 (37:45):
It's actually, well, it's a mantra based technique.
So they give you a mantra whenyou do your training and then,
um, you do it twice a day for 20minutes and it was really, I
don't know what it was aboutthat that changed me.
Maybe I was just at a point inmy life where I was ready for
that, or maybe it was somethingabout the particular technique
that worked for me.
SPEAKER_02 (38:04):
Um,
SPEAKER_00 (38:06):
but it really changed my life and everybody
who knows me has commented onhow there was such a clear
before and after in who I wasand how I behaved.
Um, So
SPEAKER_01 (38:19):
how long did you do it?
I still do it.
The time when you noticed thechange?
SPEAKER_00 (38:26):
I would say after...
After one year, there wasdefinitely...
Oh,
SPEAKER_01 (38:32):
that's a long time.
Well, that's commitment youhave.
Oh, yeah.
That's what I want to say.
Like, I want to say you need tohave patience for it and be
consistent.
SPEAKER_00 (38:40):
Totally.
SPEAKER_01 (38:40):
Because I feel like if I try for a week, I'm like,
it's not working.
SPEAKER_00 (38:43):
Well, it's like a diet or like exercise.
I see, yeah.
You know, it's like you go tothe gym twice, you're not going
to have like...
Exactly.
You know, like the dream body.
Okay, okay.
It's a lot of...
It does take consistency.
But, you know, basically,because of my experience with
TM, I got very interested instudying the brain.
And that's when I got interestedin neurobiology.
neuroscience and for me I justbecame radically fascinated with
(39:06):
the fact that we could rewireour brains because you know
people say that you can't changeyou can't change but it's been
proven that like there you knowthere's neuroplasticity we can
change our brains we can changeour patterns it's not easy to
and it takes a lot of work anddeliberate effort but you can
change the person you are
SPEAKER_01 (39:23):
do you need to have an intent or it just physically
you can do it or you need tohave like have the purpose and
wanting to change?
SPEAKER_00 (39:31):
I think you need to have the intent.
I mean, you know, people alwayssay, people can't change.
You can't make someone change.
They have to change themselves.
And that's definitely how I was.
I got to a point when I was 27where I knew that I had to make
a huge, huge difference in mylife.
And I don't think it's acoincidence that I started
meditating.
I changed my name.
I, you know, I did all thesethings.
(39:52):
I got sober that year.
Like
SPEAKER_01 (39:54):
cut your hair.
SPEAKER_00 (39:55):
No, I actually, I don't cut my, no, I do cut my
hair.
Yeah.
All these, all these likeradical changes in my life
happened all at 27.
And I think you came from aplace of being deeply unhappy
with who I was and realizingthat, you know, it wasn't
working.
And if I wanted to achieve ahappier life and fulfillment, I
really had to start from theroot causes.
(40:16):
And it was interesting because Iremember one of my mentors right
at the beginning, I was like allexcited to make all these big
changes in my life.
And I was like asking for adviceon my career and all these
things.
And he was like, no, no, no, no.
He's like, you're going througha big life change right now.
What you're doing is You'repouring cement, which is going
to be the foundation of thehouse you're going to build.
(40:38):
And you're asking me, like, whatcurtains should I buy now?
He's like, your job right nowfor at least, like, six months
is just to pour cement and watchit dry.
And I was like, six months?
Like, that's crazy.
Like, what?
Like, I was always about, like,you know, doing things as
quickly as possible.
But then I realized thatactually I slowed down and I
made it my priority that yearwhen I was 27 to– make my inner
(41:03):
work and my self-care and, youknow, change a lot of habits of
my life.
I made that my top priority andI focused on it actually much
more than my career.
For a year, my entire prioritywas just, you know, making sure
I was in a really good place.
And then because of that, Ithink it laid the foundation for
the second year after I startedmeditating.
(41:23):
Everything was just so muchexponentially better.
Like, I started to be creative.
I started to feel...
You know, there were so manycreative blocks.
I had a huge fear around writingmusic.
That was a big one.
It took me probably that wholefirst year after changing my
name to even let go of that fearof writing music.
(41:45):
There was this whole paranoia Ihad that because I hadn't been
explicitly trained as acomposer.
I mean, I had done a compositionminor at Juilliard, but...
For me, my performance careerwas all as a cellist.
I had this huge, huge major fearthat I couldn't write music
(42:05):
because I hadn't gone through 16years of conservatory training
for music.
And then I realized that thatwas actually just a limiting
self-belief that I hadinternalized along the way.
And I worked really, really hardto undo it.
But what I find interestingabout doing all this inner work
is you realize that there are somany things in life that hold
(42:26):
you back that are your own youknow, self saboteurs.
And I've gotten very, very awareand make it a really big
practice.
I start every morning with justjournaling like three pages.
And sometimes I do it likestream of consciousness and just
whatever comes out, comes out.
And sometimes there's stuff thatcomes out.
I'm like, what is going on in mybrain?
(42:46):
Like I am having
SPEAKER_01 (42:47):
these, like, what are you journaling?
SPEAKER_00 (42:49):
Like it can be anything.
Like sometimes it's like, youknow, about my work.
Sometimes it's about my personallife.
Sometimes it's about like justrandom stuff.
Like what am I cooking today?
And like where I need to go.
And like, it can be anything,but the whole point is sort of
like actually see what yourbrain is thinking about.
And, um, It's interestingbecause over time I realized
(43:11):
that a lot of those thoughtsthat I would observe, I'd be
like, oh, this is why I'mholding myself back here, and
this is what's blocking me here.
And I think it's actually reallyimportant because sometimes I
feel like I would push and pushand push towards certain goals,
and I just wouldn't achievethem, not because I didn't have
(43:32):
the will or wasn't putting inthe effort, but because there
was this subconscious desirenegative self-limiting belief
that was completely blocking me.
The most important thing thathelped me in this whole process
was first admitting that Ineeded to change.
Because I think it's so easy tobe in this routine of you're
living your life and you almosteven gaslight yourself into
thinking that you're okay.
(43:52):
But I think I had to hit like awall where I really realized I
was not okay and I was notsatisfied with my life in any
way.
And that's when I started tothink, you know, okay, I need to
make a radical change.
The radical change for mestarted with changing my name.
But for me, that was reallysymbolic of starting over and
creating a new chapter in mylife.
(44:14):
And I think the answers didn'tcome overnight.
It was definitely a very slowand, well, in retrospect, quick,
but in the moment it felt veryslow process.
But I think something thathelped me a lot was going back
to really like my early, earlylife and thinking about what it
(44:34):
was that truly made me feelhappy and made me feel
fulfilled.
Because that to me was a compassfor how I should try to build my
life.
It was interesting becauseactually somebody asked me this
the other day because they wereasking me how you find your
purpose.
And he was saying, you seem tobe someone who's very aware of
(44:57):
what your purpose is and whatfulfills you and what you want
to do.
And I was like, That is true.
And he told me, we were goingthrough that thought experiment
of if you had all the unlimitedmoney in the world, you never
had to worry about this again,what would you do?
And I was like, I would still bedoing exactly the same thing.
I'd just hire more help and havemore resources.
(45:18):
But I'd be investing into thesame areas of my life and into
doing the same projects withjust more support.
And that's when I know that I'mliving a very fulfilled life.
And I thought about it.
And he was asking me, you know,about how do you find your
purpose?
And I was like, well, go back toyour childhood and think about
what were the times where youfelt truly fulfilled and in like
(45:41):
a flow state of being alive?
Because that actually shows youlike what brings you that life
purpose.
So
So you were accepted into Juilliards at age 10.
I internalized from a very youngage that hard work was the only
thing that mattered and leisureand play were bad.
And for me, everything wasfocused around achievement.
I was like 14 years old.
There was one day when I wastraveling from Europe to the
States that I couldn't practicethe cello and I was freaking out
(00:22):
because I didn't practice forone day.
I was 27 where I knew that I hadto make a huge, huge difference
in my life.
I changed my name.
I, you know, I did all thesethings.
I got sober that year.
Welcome to
SPEAKER_02 (00:35):
The Basic Show with Victoria
SPEAKER_01 (00:43):
Machado.
Welcome, Suvi.
How do your friends actuallycall you?
SPEAKER_00 (00:54):
They call me Suvi.
They
SPEAKER_01 (00:55):
call you Suvi?
SPEAKER_00 (00:56):
Unless they're old friends.
I have a couple old friends fromNew York who call me Sofia.
SPEAKER_01 (01:00):
Sofia?
SPEAKER_00 (01:00):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (01:01):
What about like your loved ones?
SPEAKER_00 (01:03):
My parents call me Sofia.
I don't think my parents have...
I've actually never directlytalked to them about my name
change.
I mean, I think they knowbecause they follow me on
Instagram, but maybe they'vejust chosen to not talk about it
and not acknowledge it.
SPEAKER_01 (01:20):
Wait, did you actually officially change your
name?
SPEAKER_00 (01:21):
Not legally, but pretty much in every area of my
life.
SPEAKER_01 (01:25):
So it's your like alter ego.
SPEAKER_00 (01:26):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (01:27):
Your extra little spicy identity.
SPEAKER_00 (01:29):
It was supposed to be an alter ego, but then I
realized that it was actuallyalmost like a new person I had
stepped into being.
And then it didn't actually makesense to be Sophia anymore.
It was almost like a chapter ofmy life that I felt like I
closed and I wanted to let goof.
And it's actually sometimesconfusing when people call me
Sophia.
Like I was on a Zoom call acouple months ago and I remember
(01:49):
someone said Sophia and I waslike actually confused.
I was like, who are we talking
SPEAKER_01 (01:54):
about?
Who's here?
Sophia with us in the room rightnow.
Right now?
SPEAKER_00 (01:57):
Yeah, and then I realized they were talking to
me.
I was like,
SPEAKER_01 (02:01):
ooh, okay.
So walk us through, how did thename change come along?
Why?
SPEAKER_00 (02:05):
Yeah, so basically, I had been thinking about it for
a while.
The reason was actually, so Ihad a whole career as a
classical musician, and it was avery traditional, strict,
conservative classical career.
And what I really wanted to dowas make electronic music.
So I was trying to figure outhow I could do it.
(02:26):
publicly without messing with myexisting public image.
So originally I thought about itfor about six months and I had
planned to basically create ananonymous alter ego called Suvi
under which I would releasemusic that wasn't classical
music.
But by the time I actually didthe name change, I realized that
(02:49):
I just didn't actually want tobe a classical musician at all.
So what happened was it justbecame a new chapter of my life.
SPEAKER_01 (02:57):
So how long have you been a classical musician?
SPEAKER_00 (03:00):
Since I was two.
And I would say it's not thatI'm not a classical musician
anymore.
I think there's this binary, Ithink, in classical training
where you're either a classicalmusician or not a classical
musician.
It's a skill that doesn't goaway.
I started when I was two yearsold.
I trained for 16 years inconservatory.
So it's not like I forgot, butthere is a very sort of
(03:23):
traditional narrow lane for whatpeople expect a classical
musician to be and do that I wasvery much in for the first part
of my life.
And I just knew that I had nointerest in being in that lane
and being that person.
So for me, in order to do it, Ireally had to actually create a
whole new identity, which reallywas actually my real self that I
(03:47):
was stepping into.
I felt like when I was trying tofulfill that image of what a
classical musician should be, Iwas actually...
really kind of diminishingmyself and molding myself into
something that other peoplewanted me to be.
And nowadays, I feel actuallymore myself as Suvi than I ever
did as Sofia.
SPEAKER_01 (04:04):
So you were accepted into Juilliard's at age 10.
And I did some little research.
And for those who don't know,apparently, Juilliard accepts
fewer than 8% of applicants,which is making it harder to get
into than Harvard.
And celebrities like ViolaDavis, Robin Williams, Adam
Driver and Jessica Chastain wentto jail.
(04:26):
I don't know if that's true.
I don't know if it's Wikipedia.
I don't
SPEAKER_00 (04:29):
know about the celebrities, but the acceptance
rate might be true.
SPEAKER_01 (04:34):
Chat told me that.
SPEAKER_00 (04:36):
Really?
But I love ChatGPT.
I talk to ChatGPT more thananybody else.
Chat is everybody's buddy.
I know.
It's becoming a problem for me.
I think I'm addicted to ChatGPT.
My friends, have you seen thosememes?
It's like,
SPEAKER_01 (04:48):
oh, did we live
SPEAKER_00 (04:48):
before?
Yeah, like those memes of thegirl like hand in hand with,
chat GPT and it's like the loveof their life.
That's my friend sent me thatmeme.
It
SPEAKER_01 (04:56):
is the truth right now.
But anyway, bottom line, it's areally prestigious school.
Yes.
So you went to a veryprestigious school at a very
young age.
How did it feel for you?
Because 10 years old, I mean,it's like you, a little baby who
just want to be nourished andplay with her friends in the
sandbox.
So how did you feel?
SPEAKER_00 (05:14):
Did you go
SPEAKER_01 (05:15):
by yourself or?
SPEAKER_00 (05:16):
Yeah, I went by myself.
It was, it was funny becauseactually my parents kind of
tricked me into getting intojewelry.
I didn't know what jewelry was,obviously.
I was actually nine years oldwhen they told me I was going to
audition.
And they basically told me thatif I went and played this
audition, it was the firstaudition I ever took, I didn't
(05:37):
even know what that was, theywould take me to see a movie
afterwards.
And I was just excited to seethis movie.
So I went in, I remember I thinkit was like eight in the morning
I played, and then I wasaccepted and I started studying
there.
And I think that was a really...
big moment for my life, probablybigger than I understood at the
(05:58):
time, because even though Ididn't have the vocabulary to
articulate this, I had beenplaying cello since I was two.
But at that point, it reallybecame my profession and my
career because I was training tobe a professional and training
to compete as a professional.
And that put a lot of pressureon me.
I remember it was, on one hand,very refreshing to suddenly be
(06:24):
in a very competitiveenvironment where everybody was
operating at this really,really, really high caliber
because I had always been verydisciplined and had very high
standards for myself.
So I didn't feel like I was theonly one who was like this
anymore.
But then on the other hand, Iwas acutely aware that I was not
the only one and there was a lotof competition.
(06:44):
And I would say that I think atthe time, there wasn't as much
of a conversation aboutself-care and mental health and
all these other parts ofdeveloping as a person that we
are, I think, as a generationnow more vocal about.
(07:07):
At the time, kind of overnight,the only thing that became
important to me wasoverachieving.
It put a lot of pressure on me.
(07:32):
Because I was so competitivewith myself, I was never really
competitive with others, but Iwas extremely competitive with
myself and holding myself tosuper...
The worst
SPEAKER_01 (07:39):
critic,
SPEAKER_00 (07:40):
yeah?
Yeah, I was my worst critic.
I just remember overnight, I hadthis intense, intense pressure
to suddenly perform at my beststandard all the time.
And that shaped the rest of mylife in a way that I guess is
not...
normal for the typical10-year-old to experience.
Definitely not typical.
(08:00):
Yeah, and it was interesting tobe in this elite environment
because we were all behavingthat way.
We all wanted to be the best.
And I think for me, it wasinteresting because there are a
lot of things that Iinternalized at the time, which
now as an adult, I have toreprogram in myself.
For example, I internalized froma very young age that hard work
(08:22):
was the only thing that matteredand leisure and play were bad.
So there was no concept of play.
There was no concept of fun.
There was no concept of timeoff.
And for me, everything wasfocused around achievement.
And that's something that I'vereally had to unravel as an
adult because for a long time, Iwould feel guilty.
I remember even when I was like14 years old, there was one day
(08:45):
when I was traveling from Europeto the States that I couldn't
practice the cello.
And I was freaking out because Ididn't practice for one day.
It wasn't until probably mymid-20s that I allowed myself to
actually ever take any time off.
And nowadays I'm much betterabout it.
I
SPEAKER_01 (09:01):
have so many questions.
I didn't want to interrupt you.
Tell us, what is...
What do you mean by saying eliteenvironment?
Like, what was it?
To me, it's some kind of like aHarry Potter school, you know?
Yeah.
Wizards and this crazy scheduleand all this, you know,
professors.
What was it for you?
What did you feel?
Describe us a little bit whatthat environment was for you.
SPEAKER_00 (09:24):
I think it was just being around a standard of
excellence that was implicitlyjust prevalent everywhere.
You know...
there were so many people whowere playing at such a high
level and competing at a highlevel.
And we were basically just allgrouped together.
And there was this, I think,especially when I started
(09:50):
competing, because I think Istarted competing
internationally when I was 12 or13.
Then it was quite literally, wewere in competition with one
another.
It was this feeling of, youknow, even though These people
were your friends.
They were also your competition.
So it was kind of like if youimagine like taking, you know, a
couple hundred kids who are allcompeting for the Olympics and
(10:11):
putting them in the same place.
It was the same thing, but formusic.
SPEAKER_01 (10:15):
So
SPEAKER_00 (10:15):
what
SPEAKER_01 (10:15):
was it
SPEAKER_00 (10:16):
like?
SPEAKER_01 (10:17):
I just imagine it in the movie, like you can't sit
with us.
Like, how did you make friends?
How did you interact?
Were you just going to classes,studying, go back and
practicing?
Practicing, what kind ofinteraction did you have between
each other?
SPEAKER_00 (10:29):
So I was actually a little bit of a bad girl.
I skipped a lot of classes.
We want those stories, the badgirl stories.
Yeah, I remember.
I think I was actually almostkicked out when I was...
maybe 13 or 14 because theycaught me climbing on the roof.
Climbing on the roof?
Yeah, they were doingconstruction in the building and
one of the construction workersleft a door open that had access
(10:50):
to the roof.
So I went up onto the roofbecause I was curious and I
didn't realize that there weresecurity cameras everywhere.
So like maybe two weeks later, Igot called in to the dean's
office and they just put thephotos down and they're like,
what is...
I want those photos framed.
I know.
I mean, they must still havethem.
But But yeah, I remember theybasically, yeah, that was not a
(11:14):
fun meeting, but they basicallyput me on probation.
But I was skipping class a lot.
I was actually skipping classbecause I was secretly studying
art at MoMA down the street,well, a couple blocks downtown.
So I used to actually, Iremember like what was my...
lunch and practice break in theafternoon, I would actually
(11:35):
sneak out and go to MoMA tospend time in the museum and
then come back.
And then there were also just,yeah, I was kind of, it was
funny because I was notactually, I personally think I
was one of those students.
I would say I was extremelytalented, but extremely, um,
(11:56):
strong-willed and determined todo things my own way when I was
young.
So therefore, my teachers had avery hard time with me.
I remember actually verydistinctly my cello teacher,
who's now a very dear friend,and I studied with her basically
from age nine to 20, almost 26when I graduated from my
post-grad.
(12:16):
I remember one time in themiddle of a lesson, she just
walked out and she's like, Ijust need a And she's like, I
don't know what to do becauseyou're like so, so, so talented,
but so, so, so difficult.
What did you do?
I just wouldn't listen.
Were you asking questions?
I would just kind of, I had myown, you know, with classical
(12:38):
music, there's, there's a way ofdoing things.
Okay.
And, um, I just had my own way.
SPEAKER_01 (12:44):
Yeah, you just were a rebellion, huh?
SPEAKER_00 (12:45):
Yeah, from already in school.
And then I remember, you know, Iwas kicked out of orchestra one
time because I came in wearinglike, I went through a goth
phase when I was maybe 12 or 13.
I can
SPEAKER_01 (12:54):
see that, yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (12:55):
Yeah, I was coming in in like, you know, panda eye
makeup and like Nirvana t-shirtsand black nail polish and...
I got sent to CVS to go get nailpolish remover.
They were like, you can't behere like this.
SPEAKER_01 (13:07):
We had something like that back in my culture.
You couldn't wear a skirt past acertain level, things like that.
But did you, were you supposedto wear a uniform?
SPEAKER_00 (13:13):
We didn't have a uniform, but I think we had
dress codes.
SPEAKER_01 (13:16):
I did have
SPEAKER_00 (13:16):
a dress code.
And I think I definitelyviolated them.
But it was funny because when Icame back from my artist
diploma, like I went to Europefor my undergrad and my grad,
and then I came back from myartist diploma when I was 23.
And then I fully leaned intothis like wild persona where I
almost made it like my missionto come in every day and as out
(13:38):
there of an outfit as possible.
What kind of outfit?
Just whatever.
The craziest.
Yeah.
I went through all sorts ofphases.
Like, you know, sometimes itwould be like ultra glam.
Other times it would be like afur coat that was like different
colors.
That's my style.
Yeah.
It was like all over the place.
And I kind of It became a thing.
I would do like crazy makeup.
(13:58):
Like I would do like, you know,like 10 colors of eyeshadow and
like gold eyeliner and all thisstuff.
And I think it annoyed a lot ofmy teachers, but they kind of
realized that I was going tokeep doing this.
Do
SPEAKER_01 (14:11):
you think it was a cry for attention?
I
SPEAKER_00 (14:13):
think it was.
I think it was a cry forattention.
I think it was also me alreadyat that point feeling very, very
frustrated with the fact thatthere was so much conformism and
I was determined to, you know,break the rules as much as
possible.
I remember when I was in myfirst couple years at Juilliard,
one of the things that wasdefinitely in the dress code was
(14:36):
I don't think it was evenexplicitly listed, but you were
just expected to wear shoes onstage.
And so I made it a thing where Iwould never wear shoes on stage
when I came back from my artistdiploma.
SPEAKER_01 (14:47):
Bad girl.
SPEAKER_00 (14:48):
Yeah, and I started working with a lot of dancers
and I justified it by, you know,the dancers are not wearing
shoes.
SPEAKER_01 (14:54):
But I've heard the thing that you feel more
connected to music and feel moregrounded.
I've actually seen a fewartists, musicians who perform
on stage with no shoes.
SPEAKER_00 (15:03):
Yeah, no, I love it.
And actually, it's interestingbecause Because I am wearing
very high heels right now.
SPEAKER_01 (15:08):
Feel free to take
SPEAKER_00 (15:10):
them off.
No, but I do feel that whenyou're grounded flat on the
floor, you do feel much morecentered.
And I actually, I've hadexperiences.
Yeah, there was definitely aphase where I was wearing really
high heels when I was playingcello.
And it could be scary in thesense that you could feel a
(15:30):
little bit unbalanced.
UNKNOWN (15:32):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (15:32):
And before we started the interview, you told
me you actually were wearingsuper high heels and you broke
your ankle.
SPEAKER_00 (15:39):
Yeah, I broke three bones in my ankle.
So it's actually I always say itwas like the best thing that
ever happened to me in a waywhen I moved to L.A.
because I was going through aphase where I wasn't sure where
I wanted to live and I had cometo L.A.
just like on a whim.
And the first couple monthshere, I was barely here.
I was touring.
And then I came back after maybethree months and thought, okay,
(16:00):
maybe I'll give this city a trypermanently for like six more
months.
But then what happened was thevery first night that I decided
to go out and celebrate with myfriends, we tried to go to a
club downtown and I was wearinga like massive stripper heels
(16:20):
with, they were like platformheels that had a very, very
narrow stiletto that was shapedlike the barrel of a gun.
And yeah, and they had likebullets all around the side.
They were like the best shoesever.
You're some
SPEAKER_01 (16:33):
fashionista, huh?
SPEAKER_00 (16:34):
I know.
So I was so excited.
I was like, I've never wornthese.
It's my first night out in LA.
I'm going to step out of thisUber.
And then I saw a puddle.
So I was like, I can't get myshoes wet.
So I tried to step over it.
And instead I lost balance andended up with 14 pins in my
ankle which sucked in the moment
SPEAKER_01 (16:50):
welcome to LA
SPEAKER_00 (16:52):
right away American dream yeah but the great thing
is they kept me in LA because Icouldn't walk for three months
so I got stuck in LA had torelearn how to walk and then by
that point I was like okay I'mliving here my stuff is here
SPEAKER_01 (17:04):
yeah so certain things maybe happen for a reason
right good or bad just for youto be here do you see yourself
here in LA down the line longterm
SPEAKER_00 (17:13):
yeah so it's actually now finally become the
place where I've lived thelongest Which is only three
years, but for me that's longbecause I basically moved almost
every one to two years for myentire life since I left home at
16.
But yeah, I was actually reallyamazed because I actually
re-signed my lease contract.
(17:35):
about two weeks ago for thesecond time.
And last year it was the firsttime I ever re-signed a lease.
I never lived anywhere for morethan one year.
So it was like a big moment.
I remember like when I re-signedit the first time I had this
whole panic where I was like, Ifeel like I need to move, like
just because I always do.
And my friends were like, well,where are you going to go if you
move?
I was like, I don't know, likesomewhere else, but I just, I've
(17:56):
never signed, re-signed atleast.
It felt like a massive likecommitment, but.
And
SPEAKER_01 (18:01):
you've lived in so many places, especially in
Europe.
I'm surprised you didn't want tostay like in London or in Paris.
SPEAKER_00 (18:07):
Well, so I was, I went to Paris first and I loved
Paris.
And then I went to Berlin and Iloved Berlin for different
reasons.
But I think I was, you know, LAwas somewhere I never thought I
would end up.
I, if you had asked me, I thinkat any point, Before I moved to
LA, if I would live here, I hadno interest in the city.
SPEAKER_01 (18:25):
But
SPEAKER_00 (18:26):
what happens was by the time I finished my 16 years
of conservatory, I realized thatwhat interested me more than
anything was popular music.
And by pop music, I meaneverything that wasn't classical
music.
And so I figured the place tocome to learn about that was Los
Angeles.
SPEAKER_01 (18:46):
I would never think Los Angeles about that.
I would maybe think like NewYork more.
Really?
No,
SPEAKER_00 (18:50):
because the whole pop music industry is here and
there's just so much happeninghere with the music scene.
So it was interesting becausewhen I came here, I literally
felt like I had been raisedAmish and I was like seeing
electricity for the first timebecause I came from a world of,
you know, playing withorchestras and everything's
acoustic, like no micing, woodeninstruments.
And I got here and I remember myvery first week, I sat down to
(19:13):
do a session with a hip hopproducer and I had never seen a
DAW, which is Digital AudioWorkstation, which is how
everybody...
SPEAKER_01 (19:20):
Sorry, you haven't seen what?
SPEAKER_00 (19:22):
Digital Audio Workstation.
It's how everybody makes musicnow.
And I remember almost feelinglike I had been cheated in my
education.
I was like, how did I go through16 years of...
what's supposedly the bestconservatory training and I
don't know how basic musictechnology works.
And so it literally felt like Ihad been raised Amish in a
(19:44):
musical sense.
It's like you have to
SPEAKER_01 (19:45):
start again from ground zero to learn now this
technology.
SPEAKER_00 (19:49):
Yeah, and it was crazy because I remember just
looking at it and I was like, Ihave no idea what this is.
I had never played with mic.
I had never recorded myself.
I had never used any sort ofcontemporary music tech.
But the one thing that I knew isthat I loved popular music.
I had...
Actually, I remember my lastcouple of years at Juilliard, I
used to listen to Eminem while Iwas practicing cello in the
(20:13):
practice rooms, which everyonethought was really weird.
Weird choice.
I know.
And like Brockhampton and MacMiller.
I was like a big hip hop fan atthe time.
I mean, still am, but I wasreally going through like a hip
hop phase.
And I remember distinctly like Iwould be practicing and at the
same time have my AirPods in andbe listening to Eminem.
Slim Shady.
So it was like this dichotomy.
(20:34):
But so even though I got hereand I didn't understand how to
make pop music in any way, Iknew that I loved it.
And I just wanted to understandit better.
And I'm the kind of person wholearns by doing.
So I just said yes toeverything.
Like within a couple of months,I was touring with like R&B
artists, electronic artists, hiphop artists.
And from there, I just picked upthings and learned.
(20:56):
And after...
The first couple years I startedproducing myself and now I'm a
full-on producer and just thismorning made an EDM track.
SPEAKER_01 (21:06):
Just this morning, sipping my morning coffee,
creating some tracks.
SPEAKER_00 (21:11):
It's not where I thought I would end up at all.
Three and a half years ago whenI finished at Juilliard, if you
had told me that I'd be sittinghere making beats, I
SPEAKER_01 (21:22):
would not.
It's hard for me to imagine toobecause most of the videos I've
seen of you online is just youso proper on the world stages
you know beautiful amazing musicand I was like wow I cannot
imagine you in any other way
SPEAKER_00 (21:35):
well it's not released yet so actually I'm
releasing an electronic album ina couple months okay it's gonna
be slowly singles are gonna comeout this summer and then the
full album will be out in
SPEAKER_01 (21:46):
the fall okay so let's talk about that I want to
talk a little bit later butsince you brought it up is it
the dark therapy okay so tell meabout it I listened to one track
and I didn't want to stop it'sjust such a crazy new is this
the one on your website right Itwas just so interesting.
Well, you had that animation,but I was just listening.
I've never heard anything likethis in my life before.
Can you tell me a little bitmore what's behind it?
(22:07):
What's the story?
What does it mean?
SPEAKER_00 (22:09):
Yeah, so, well, it's interesting because dark therapy
kind of fulfills two things forme.
On one hand, I guess I can talkabout it from a musical sense,
first of
SPEAKER_03 (22:21):
all.
SPEAKER_00 (22:22):
I knew that I wanted to...
move into electronic music.
And that was something that Ihad known for a long time.
And where I felt challenged was,like you said, how do I
transition from what people knowof me playing classical cello in
this very proper sense to theworld of electronic music, which
I've been listening to forprobably more than 10 years.
(22:46):
I mean, I lived in Berlin as ateenager, so techno is like a
big part of my soul.
So for a long time, I'veactually been making electronic
music for a while, but I didn'tknow how I could basically just
drop a techno track and expectmy audience to follow or to
understand where I was going.
(23:07):
So I knew that I wanted to dosomething that fused those two
worlds.
And musically, that's what darktherapy is because it was
interesting when we were makingit, we were just mixing it the
other day and I was talking tothe engineer and I was like, I
don't even know what genre tocategorize this as because it's
not classical, but it has cello,And he was like, this is
(23:28):
electronic.
SPEAKER_01 (23:29):
It's like New Age or something, kind of?
I guess it could be New
SPEAKER_00 (23:33):
Age.
It could be classified as, somepeople have described it as
trance or ambient.
But to me, it also does havebeats.
So it's kind of, honestly, I dothink it sort of lives in its
own world.
But increasingly, I also thinkwe live in a world where genres,
like everything, are blending.
I mean, I've always felt verymuch in between cultures being,
(23:54):
you know, Cuban and Chinese andhaving lived in the States and
Europe.
I feel like I belong to allthese different parts of the
world.
And artistically, I think thatwas a big part of my dilemma as
well, feeling like, where do Ibelong?
Who am I?
Because I was genuinelypassionate about all these
different kinds of music, and Ididn't know how to amalgamate
them all.
And I think I realized over timethat what made sense was not to
(24:17):
try to make myself either or,yes or no, like I can only do
classical, I can't do classical,I'm doing this or that, and
instead just build worlds thatwere my own world and they could
be anything I wanted them to be.
And I think, you know, a genreis something that we have to,
it's a label, we have to givesomething because of the way
music is uploaded to a DSP.
(24:39):
But ultimately, I think we livein a very genre-less world.
SPEAKER_01 (24:45):
Genre-less?
What does it mean?
SPEAKER_00 (24:47):
Genre-less?
Like no genre?
SPEAKER_01 (24:48):
There's no genre?
SPEAKER_00 (24:50):
Yeah, I think there's, you know, in so many
ways, things aren't, even inlike food, like I compared a lot
to food, like food has, there'sso many fusion cuisines now.
I think increasingly, you know,with food, globalization, we've
all influenced each other somuch.
I see elements of one thing inanother thing all the time,
(25:13):
whether it comes to like food ormusic or art or fashion.
And I think it's, it's, um, Youknow, there aren't as many rules
now about like you can only stayin this lane or this lane.
SPEAKER_01 (25:23):
But sometimes it could be for worse.
I mean, if you talk about food,I mean, I hate like fried sushi
and things like that.
I haven't had fried sushi.
Like if you go, let's say,somewhere like in Europe,
certain places where they don'thave access to fresh fish, they
would just make some reallyhorrific things and you would
think, no, just go back to theoriginal, go back to the basics.
SPEAKER_00 (25:45):
Well, that was also part of the challenge because
with dark therapy, you know,that's another thing that's been
really challenging for mebecause the idea of, you know,
classical crossover is somethingthat has been done for a long
time and it's something that Ipersonally don't like.
I, for a long time, was really,really hesitant to do anything
that involved the cello and anyother genre of music and that
(26:08):
was originally why I kind ofwanted to divide the two
personas just because I thinkthere's been a lot of what has
been traditionally categorizedas classical crossover music,
then honestly, I think it justsounds like a bad version of
both genres, like you weresaying with fried sushi.
I mean,
SPEAKER_01 (26:28):
yeah, here you're coming from.
But at the same time, you'recreating something new, but
you're also...
You're creating something new,but you having your own twist.
And it's because you had so manydifferent experiences, right?
They impacted the way you seethings because you had exposure
to so many different cultures,to so many different styles and
(26:52):
disciplines when you werestudying.
So I guess once you reachcertain level of knowledge, you
can break the rules, right?
So you have the right to breakthe rules because you already
went through the old, you wentthrough the classical textbook,
right?
You went through all the rules.
Now you're saying, okay, I'mbored.
I've done it.
I know how it works.
(27:12):
Now I want to experiment and dosomething different.
But you have the right to do it,right?
If I do it, I'm like, okay, youjust don't know what you're
doing.
SPEAKER_00 (27:20):
Totally.
And that's something, I'msomeone who really, really feels
strongly about having artisticintegrity in anything I do.
So one of the reasons why Iwaited so long to put out
anything like this is that Ireally wanted to take the time
to study electronic music.
And that's what I did forseveral years.
I mean, I was listening to itsince a really young age.
And like I said, when I lived inBerlin, I was heavily immersed
(27:43):
in the European techno scene andthe IDM scene.
And dubstep, all these thingsreally heavily influenced me.
But for me, it's alwaysimportant that I'm not making a
bastardization of something.
And so...
It was a tough challenge for me,you know, to create something
(28:05):
new that I don't want to sayit's a new genre in itself, but
it doesn't sound like, I hope,like a bad ripoff of two
different genres and trying to,you know, like...
take a cupcake and a donut andlike...
Just for the sake of it, right?
Exactly.
Just
SPEAKER_01 (28:23):
for the sake of
SPEAKER_00 (28:24):
it.
Yeah, I think there has to be areason to do it.
And for me, it came from a veryauthentic place.
When I started writing it,actually the whole album came
really, really naturally to me.
What happened was there was oneday I was literally just, I woke
up, I meditated and I got theidea for this one track, which
was the first single, which isactually the one you
SPEAKER_03 (28:43):
heard.
SPEAKER_00 (28:44):
And I wrote it out and about...
like one hour.
It was a really, really quickprocess.
And I was kind of justexperimenting.
I had this idea to do somethingin D minor with a lot of drones.
And then that whole track kindof emerged almost exactly the
way it is in the finishedversion.
And I sent it to two friends andI was like, I just made this
(29:05):
thing this morning.
What do you think about this?
And they're like, oh my God,we're obsessed.
Like make more.
And then the whole album kind ofalmost like wrote itself very
naturally in about two or threeweeks.
It was a very quick, short,intense writing process.
But what you never see behindthat is there were probably
like, you know, a dozen at leastfailed launch attempts to come
(29:28):
up with an idea for a conceptfor an album before that in the
last maybe two years.
And I had started and scrappedso many projects that just
didn't work.
But I think when something worksand you're in that flow state
and it just comes naturally,you're like, okay, this is it.
We're doing this.
SPEAKER_01 (29:43):
Do you think you had it like in the back of your mind
for a long time and then BecauseI can't imagine, like, first of
all, I can't imagine how towrite music.
Do you have this melody in yourhead and you just put it, you
know, in notes?
Or you're first like, oh, let mejust play around and throw some,
you know, throw some notes intothe pot and see what it's going
to sound?
And the second question is, whatI was trying to ask initially,
(30:08):
sorry, I have so many questions.
You said you tried to work onthis album for two years.
You think it was somewhere inthe back of your head in your
subconscious and then when yousaid you were meditating,
somehow it appeared.
Do you think it was just luck oryou think because you are
subconsciously thinking about itand it just found an avenue that
one specific day and just cameout?
(30:30):
I don't know if it makes sense.
SPEAKER_00 (30:31):
No, it makes more sense.
So it's actually interestingbecause the whole origin for
this album actually happenedlast summer.
So last summer I did my firstVipassana meditation retreat
which is a 10-day silentmeditation
SPEAKER_01 (30:42):
Okay.
SPEAKER_00 (30:44):
And during that time, I meditated for 11 and a
half hours every day.
11
SPEAKER_01 (30:48):
hours meditate?
SPEAKER_00 (30:50):
Yeah.
So you meditate 11 and a halfhours and you don't speak and
you don't have any contact withanybody for 10 days.
I
SPEAKER_01 (30:56):
cannot meditate for two minutes.
11
SPEAKER_00 (30:59):
hours?
Are you
SPEAKER_01 (30:59):
like in trance?
SPEAKER_00 (31:01):
By the end of it, you kind of do feel like you're
in like another world.
But it was interesting because Ihad this...
experience about halfwaythrough, they put me in what
they called a meditation cell,which was like a tiny, maybe
like two by four room withnothing except a cushion on the
(31:22):
ground and no light.
And I remember it was such aninteresting experience for me
because when I was sitting inthat meditation cell, I had the
deepest, most powerfulmeditations and I started
hearing phantom music.
Like I heard music constantly inmy head.
And I remember thinking, like,what is going on?
(31:43):
Am I losing my mind?
Like, have I been in here toolong?
But it was something that reallystuck with me.
And then I went back to life.
You know, you come out of yourmeditation retreat, a million
things are happening.
I was super busy, didn't reallyhave time to think about it.
A couple months later, when Iwas meditating, again, the day I
(32:03):
wrote the first track, Iremember I came out of the
meditation and I thought aboutthat experience.
And then I immediately textedone of my friends who's a
neuroscientist who studiesaltered states of consciousness.
And I was like, you know, isthere a correlation between
darkness and music andmeditation?
And Interestingly, he wasactually studying dark exposure
(32:26):
at the time in his lab.
So he had me come over and wespent about four hours just
having a really longconversation about basically how
darkness enhanced listening canactually help things like PTSD
and depression and ADHD andanxiety.
So I basically said, okay, Iwant to do a clinical study to
(32:49):
substantiate this hypothesiswhat do you need from me and he
said let me if you give me youknow 30 minutes of music i can
run this study for you so i wentback and wrote dark therapy
SPEAKER_01 (33:02):
well i've heard about something like that
because once you remove some ofthe senses right so you remove
the sense of vision yeah so youpretty much um accelerate and
give power to other senses whichis hearing i guess right yeah so
i would assume that's what iwanted to ask you so dark
therapy be because we didn'tclarify it in the beginning,
it's listening to music in thedarkness, correct me if I'm
(33:26):
wrong, it has specific frequencyor something that impacts you in
a sense?
Yeah,
SPEAKER_00 (33:32):
so I had a lot of extended conversations with the
neuroscience team.
They have been studying musicand sound and how it affects the
brain for a long time.
Basically about how certaintonalities, certain BPMs,
certain rhythmic patterns affectyour state of being.
And so all the compositions werevery carefully crafted around
those parameters and they'remeant to take you into this very
(33:54):
deep introspective journey Sothis particular album for me, I
made it with the concept ofdoing deep shadow work, which is
something I've done a lot of.
SPEAKER_01 (34:03):
What does it mean, deep shadow work?
SPEAKER_00 (34:05):
Shadow work is essentially where you reflect
upon and process the dark sidesof your past.
So the trauma, the things thatyou haven't healed, things that
you're maybe ignoring.
And for me, as someone who wasrecovering from PTSD, it was
really important for me toaddress a lot of my past trauma
and make peace with it and, youknow, allow myself to let go of
(34:27):
the past in order to moveforward and so I always thought
about this concept you know theonly way out is in and to me
what that means is you have togo inward first and understand
yourself before you can actuallymove on so the whole album is
meant to take you on this deepintrospective inner journey that
(34:48):
allows you to be in the statethat's optimized for doing your
shadow work and for deepemotional release and my hope is
that people who listen to it canface those aspects of themselves
and hopefully come out of itwith a little bit more levity
and clarity.
SPEAKER_01 (35:04):
I mean, you say it's such simple words, but it sounds
so complex.
I mean, I cannot imagine.
What are the first moves?
What are the first steps?
for anybody who has noexperience whatsoever to emerge
and to get closer to yourexperience?
Because I can't imagine myselfjust sitting in a room, closing
my eyes and be like, okay, nowI'm going to like deep work and
(35:27):
I'm going to analyze all mytraumas.
I feel like, what are the tools?
Like, right?
What are the first steps, simplethings we can start with before
going into that
SPEAKER_00 (35:37):
deep subconscious?
Yeah, no, that's maybe a...
SPEAKER_01 (35:40):
I mean, you clearly have done a
SPEAKER_00 (35:41):
lot of work.
Definitely way more advanced.
Yeah, so...
it's interesting because I usedto be the kind of person I could
not meditate for years andyears.
Everybody in my familymeditated.
My aunt is a meditation teacher.
They were all trying to get meto meditate and I was like all
over the place.
I had no groundedness.
That's
SPEAKER_01 (35:57):
me.
SPEAKER_00 (35:58):
Yeah.
I used to be, I mean, I used tobe like a kite that you had to
try to like get back down to
SPEAKER_03 (36:03):
earth.
SPEAKER_00 (36:04):
It was super flighty, super spontaneous, like
all over the place.
And my energy was super, supererratic.
And it got to a point where Irealized that I was actually
running away from myself.
I was constantly distractingmyself with things all around me
to not face myself.
And I actually startedmeditating.
I had soft launches for years.
(36:26):
I would do meditation classes.
I would try meditation apps.
I would do it for a couple ofdays and then always fall off
the bandwagon.
But then when I was 27, for mybirthday, I gifted myself TM
lessons.
So TM stands for TranscendentalMeditation.
It's a very popular meditationclass.
I heard
SPEAKER_01 (36:44):
about that a little
SPEAKER_00 (36:45):
bit.
Yeah, and I got to the pointbecause I had such bad insomnia
at the time for probably, Iwould say...
probably since I was 10 or so.
I
SPEAKER_01 (36:55):
mean, excuse me, your brain has to hold five
languages.
You speak all the skills anddefinitely insomnia, like your
brain constantly in the workmode, probably even when you're
sleeping.
SPEAKER_00 (37:05):
Totally.
I used to wake up in the middleof the night with ideas and like
write 3000 word emails to peoplewith the ideas I was having.
And people are like, okay.
Yeah.
So, so my brain was always sooveractive.
I felt like I could never turnit off.
And my insomnia was so bad.
And because I couldn't sleep,then I was anxious during the
day and it was like a neverending cycle and several friends
(37:27):
had recommended TM to me.
And finally I was like, okay, Ihave to do this.
And I did the training andimmediately it changed my life.
Like my insomnia went away.
Um, and TM is, you know, youpractice twice a day for 20
minutes, which sounded crazy.
I was coming from like nomeditation and running around
all over the place to like,
SPEAKER_01 (37:43):
so what is the technique?
SPEAKER_00 (37:45):
It's actually, well, it's a mantra based technique.
So they give you a mantra whenyou do your training and then,
um, you do it twice a day for 20minutes and it was really, I
don't know what it was aboutthat that changed me.
Maybe I was just at a point inmy life where I was ready for
that, or maybe it was somethingabout the particular technique
that worked for me.
SPEAKER_02 (38:04):
Um,
SPEAKER_00 (38:06):
but it really changed my life and everybody
who knows me has commented onhow there was such a clear
before and after in who I wasand how I behaved.
Um, So
SPEAKER_01 (38:19):
how long did you do it?
I still do it.
The time when you noticed thechange?
SPEAKER_00 (38:26):
I would say after...
After one year, there wasdefinitely...
Oh,
SPEAKER_01 (38:32):
that's a long time.
Well, that's commitment youhave.
Oh, yeah.
That's what I want to say.
Like, I want to say you need tohave patience for it and be
consistent.
SPEAKER_00 (38:40):
Totally.
SPEAKER_01 (38:40):
Because I feel like if I try for a week, I'm like,
it's not working.
SPEAKER_00 (38:43):
Well, it's like a diet or like exercise.
I see, yeah.
You know, it's like you go tothe gym twice, you're not going
to have like...
Exactly.
You know, like the dream body.
Okay, okay.
It's a lot of...
It does take consistency.
But, you know, basically,because of my experience with
TM, I got very interested instudying the brain.
And that's when I got interestedin neurobiology.
neuroscience and for me I justbecame radically fascinated with
(39:06):
the fact that we could rewireour brains because you know
people say that you can't changeyou can't change but it's been
proven that like there you knowthere's neuroplasticity we can
change our brains we can changeour patterns it's not easy to
and it takes a lot of work anddeliberate effort but you can
change the person you are
SPEAKER_01 (39:23):
do you need to have an intent or it just physically
you can do it or you need tohave like have the purpose and
wanting to change?
SPEAKER_00 (39:31):
I think you need to have the intent.
I mean, you know, people alwayssay, people can't change.
You can't make someone change.
They have to change themselves.
And that's definitely how I was.
I got to a point when I was 27where I knew that I had to make
a huge, huge difference in mylife.
And I don't think it's acoincidence that I started
meditating.
I changed my name.
I, you know, I did all thesethings.
(39:52):
I got sober that year.
Like
SPEAKER_01 (39:54):
cut your hair.
SPEAKER_00 (39:55):
No, I actually, I don't cut my, no, I do cut my
hair.
Yeah.
All these, all these likeradical changes in my life
happened all at 27.
And I think you came from aplace of being deeply unhappy
with who I was and realizingthat, you know, it wasn't
working.
And if I wanted to achieve ahappier life and fulfillment, I
really had to start from theroot causes.
(40:16):
And it was interesting because Iremember one of my mentors right
at the beginning, I was like allexcited to make all these big
changes in my life.
And I was like asking for adviceon my career and all these
things.
And he was like, no, no, no, no.
He's like, you're going througha big life change right now.
What you're doing is You'repouring cement, which is going
to be the foundation of thehouse you're going to build.
(40:38):
And you're asking me, like, whatcurtains should I buy now?
He's like, your job right nowfor at least, like, six months
is just to pour cement and watchit dry.
And I was like, six months?
Like, that's crazy.
Like, what?
Like, I was always about, like,you know, doing things as
quickly as possible.
But then I realized thatactually I slowed down and I
made it my priority that yearwhen I was 27 to– make my inner
(41:03):
work and my self-care and, youknow, change a lot of habits of
my life.
I made that my top priority andI focused on it actually much
more than my career.
For a year, my entire prioritywas just, you know, making sure
I was in a really good place.
And then because of that, Ithink it laid the foundation for
the second year after I startedmeditating.
(41:23):
Everything was just so muchexponentially better.
Like, I started to be creative.
I started to feel...
You know, there were so manycreative blocks.
I had a huge fear around writingmusic.
That was a big one.
It took me probably that wholefirst year after changing my
name to even let go of that fearof writing music.
(41:45):
There was this whole paranoia Ihad that because I hadn't been
explicitly trained as acomposer.
I mean, I had done a compositionminor at Juilliard, but...
For me, my performance careerwas all as a cellist.
I had this huge, huge major fearthat I couldn't write music
(42:05):
because I hadn't gone through 16years of conservatory training
for music.
And then I realized that thatwas actually just a limiting
self-belief that I hadinternalized along the way.
And I worked really, really hardto undo it.
But what I find interestingabout doing all this inner work
is you realize that there are somany things in life that hold
(42:26):
you back that are your own youknow, self saboteurs.
And I've gotten very, very awareand make it a really big
practice.
I start every morning with justjournaling like three pages.
And sometimes I do it likestream of consciousness and just
whatever comes out, comes out.
And sometimes there's stuff thatcomes out.
I'm like, what is going on in mybrain?
(42:46):
Like I am having
SPEAKER_01 (42:47):
these, like, what are you journaling?
SPEAKER_00 (42:49):
Like it can be anything.
Like sometimes it's like, youknow, about my work.
Sometimes it's about my personallife.
Sometimes it's about like justrandom stuff.
Like what am I cooking today?
And like where I need to go.
And like, it can be anything,but the whole point is sort of
like actually see what yourbrain is thinking about.
And, um, It's interestingbecause over time I realized
(43:11):
that a lot of those thoughtsthat I would observe, I'd be
like, oh, this is why I'mholding myself back here, and
this is what's blocking me here.
And I think it's actually reallyimportant because sometimes I
feel like I would push and pushand push towards certain goals,
and I just wouldn't achievethem, not because I didn't have
(43:32):
the will or wasn't putting inthe effort, but because there
was this subconscious desirenegative self-limiting belief
that was completely blocking me.
The most important thing thathelped me in this whole process
was first admitting that Ineeded to change.
Because I think it's so easy tobe in this routine of you're
living your life and you almosteven gaslight yourself into
thinking that you're okay.
(43:52):
But I think I had to hit like awall where I really realized I
was not okay and I was notsatisfied with my life in any
way.
And that's when I started tothink, you know, okay, I need to
make a radical change.
The radical change for mestarted with changing my name.
But for me, that was reallysymbolic of starting over and
creating a new chapter in mylife.
(44:14):
And I think the answers didn'tcome overnight.
It was definitely a very slowand, well, in retrospect, quick,
but in the moment it felt veryslow process.
But I think something thathelped me a lot was going back
to really like my early, earlylife and thinking about what it
(44:34):
was that truly made me feelhappy and made me feel
fulfilled.
Because that to me was a compassfor how I should try to build my
life.
It was interesting becauseactually somebody asked me this
the other day because they wereasking me how you find your
purpose.
And he was saying, you seem tobe someone who's very aware of
(44:57):
what your purpose is and whatfulfills you and what you want
to do.
And I was like, That is true.
And he told me, we were goingthrough that thought experiment
of if you had all the unlimitedmoney in the world, you never
had to worry about this again,what would you do?
And I was like, I would still bedoing exactly the same thing.
I'd just hire more help and havemore resources.
(45:18):
But I'd be investing into thesame areas of my life and into
doing the same projects withjust more support.
And that's when I know that I'mliving a very fulfilled life.
And I thought about it.
And he was asking me, you know,about how do you find your
purpose?
And I was like, well, go back toyour childhood and think about
what were the times where youfelt truly fulfilled and in like
(45:41):
a flow state of being alive?
Because that actually shows youlike what brings you that life
purpose.
So
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