EP. 84 Celebrating 50 years of "DRESSED TO KILL" Diving into Music Geekdom

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:08):
Hey, hey, everybody.
Welcome into the Ben Maynardprogram.
Thanks for being here.
As you can see, we have a guesttoday and we got a special one
for you as well.
But before we get started, alittle housekeeping to take care
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(00:30):
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(00:52):
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(01:14):
So with that, plenty of ways totake in the show for your
dancing and listening pleasure.
And here we go.
Like I said, this is a good one,and I'm just going to cut to
the chase, get right to it andintroduce everybody to my good
buddy, tommy Summers.

(01:36):
Thank you very much, tommy, andhappy Saturday to you.
Same to you.
Thanks for having me on.
Yeah, absolutely, listen,listen everybody, tommy.
Um, tommy is one of three mostof the time sometimes four
co-hosts of like the biggestkiss podcast in the world.

(01:59):
Okay, it's absolutely thebiggest.
It's a a great podcast and Iactually it's called Three Sides
of the Coin and you've probably, if you've been around, if
you've been with me long enoughon this program, you've heard me
reference that podcast severaltimes.
I've mentioned Tommy, I'vementioned Mark, I've mentioned

(02:22):
Michael, so it's just, it's agreat podcast.
These guys do a fabulous job,everybody knows them and they're
just world-class.
So, thank you.

Speaker 2 (02:34):
Very nice of you to say yeah, no.

Speaker 1 (02:35):
So, thanks a lot, tommy.
It's so good to have you here.
Thanks for having me, Of course, absolutely, um, having me, of
course, absolutely.
You know, you and I, and ofcourse, michael and and, and, uh
, and mark and lisa and izzyfrom time to time as well all

(02:56):
absolutely just giant kiss fans,and we have been, you know,
since we were kids.
Yeah, and, and you and I, we'rethe same age.
Um, you've got a birthday.
You've got a birthday coming upin may, as a matter of fact,
yes, I do, I know big six, oh,uh, yeah, but, uh, but you know,

(03:18):
this week, uh, an album fromour favorite band turned 50 and
that's Dressed to Kill this oneright here.
Let me see, there it is.
I got it right there.
Okay, turned 50 this week, so Ithought, well, why not?
I was going to do a show anyway,but I thought you know what I'm
going to text Tommy and see ifhe wants to come on, and yeah,

(03:42):
so this is going to be good.
I like it, you know so.
But before we get into that,let's get a little background
from you, tommy, I don't know.
I like to ask some of theartists or musicians that I have
come on, like when did you getthe bug?

(04:06):
When did music first hit youwhere it just you know it was a
song, an album, something youheard on the radio, whatever it
was, and just kind of hit youright here in your chest and you
fell in love with music andthat was it.

Speaker 2 (04:19):
Uh, goes back to my earliest childhood memories.
I have older sisters and anolder brother, so they had
record collections.
And I remember literally beingfive years old, probably sitting
in front of my mom and dad'sFisher console one of those old
fashioned massive things, youknow and listening to two
records in particular.

(04:40):
There was a lot, but two inparticular, over and over and
over again.
That would be sergeant peppersby the beetles and the rolling
stones.
Um, high tides and green grass,the rate greatest hits of the
rolling stones.
Those two, for whatever reason,stuck out to me more than
everything else that was there.
And we had other great stuffand we had motown, we had

(05:02):
classic rock, we had all thesedifferent things because all of
my siblings liked differentstuff, but those were the two
that really stuck out.
And then the kinks greatesthits uh, as well, that was a.

Speaker 1 (05:16):
Those were the three biggies okay, your, your story
is pretty similar to mine and Ilike the fact that our families
had these big, huge consolestereos made of real wood.
You know, it was actually apiece of furniture in the house
Totally Weighed about 250 poundsor so.

(05:39):
Big giant 12-inch speakers inthe cabinet and all that, just
great stuff.
And and for me, you know, my,my, my parents, primarily my dad
, um would, would, um put oneddie arnold or jim reeves or

(05:59):
nat king cole, and so I wasaccustomed to hearing that and
um, but it was probably about1972 and we had this and I've
told the story on the show.
So, people, if you're, ifyou've been here for 83 previous
episodes, you can turn down thevolume.
But, um, my mom had, uh, the 45of the Beatles, let it be, and

(06:29):
she put that 45 on the stereoand she sat on the floor in
front of a typewriter, uh, inour family room, and as it
played she was typing out thelyrics to the song and, um, not
to say that she got it all inone play, and as it played she
was typing out the lyrics to thesong, and not to say that she

(06:51):
got it all in one play, she, youknow, obviously got to, you
know, start and stop and thatkind of thing, but she pounded
out the lyrics to that ongoldenrod paper and I remember I
took that sheet of paper and Iwould play that 45 over and over
and over again and I would singthat 45 over and over and over
again and I would sing to let itbe, and I remember that.
I don't even remember the B side.
I know it was a John Lennonsong and I hated it, but that's

(07:13):
about all I remember.
I think it was.
Yeah, I don't even remembereither it's something about
knowing somebody's name orsomething like that.
I can't recall, but but that'skind of when it just it seems
like it's stuck.
You know, and I don't know, Iknow, for guys like you and I,
we just we seem to have aspecial relationship with music.

Speaker 2 (07:36):
Yeah, and I'm not really sure why it hits some
people and not others.
And it's weird how it's changed, because when we were kids, the
thing to do was to buy the 45s,not the LPs.
And so at first, when I startedbuying things for myself I was
quite young and I earned anallowance they would take me to

(07:57):
Target and Target had like ahuge wall of 45s, like all the
latest hits, and then obviouslyrepresses of older songs and
that sort of thing, and so itwas interesting because you
could.
You could buy Deep Purple Smokeon the Water and you could buy

(08:17):
the Carpenter's Superstar at thesame time, released about the
same time, or at least about thesame time, and you never
thought twice of it as a kid,because at that point music was
different than it is now.
They didn't categorize it theway they do now, and I think
that that also has destroyedsome of the love of music,

(08:40):
because I know too many peoplethat they get stuck in a genre,
whatever it is, and they don'tgo outside that genre.
And I've never really understoodthat, because to me that's no
different than eating at thesame restaurant every single day
.
Why wouldn't you want a varietyof different types of food or
experiences or music, becauseit's like if it's a good song,

(09:02):
it's a good song.
It shouldn't matter whetherit's Linda R, it's a good song,
it's a good song.
It shouldn't matter whetherit's linda ronstead with a
nelson riddle orchestra or it'ssome death metal band out of you
know norway, I, whatever itmight be.
But right, that's changed.
You know even the, the, thefestival bills have changed.
Now it's all metal, or it's allcountry, or it's all pop or

(09:26):
whatever it is, and you don'thave that crossover anymore.
So I think there's a lot ofpeople who've lost that ability
to see a song for what it israther than to compartmentalize
it into a genre or a style.

Speaker 1 (09:40):
I completely agree with you and I've talked about
it before.
And when we were growing up,top 40 radio played everything.
I mean you'd have a rock song,an R&B song, a country song in
the late 70s, a disco song,whatever it was.
You had everything back to backto back to back, right.

(10:01):
And so we were exposed to somany different genres of music
and I think that's why I won'tsay my tastes are eclectic or
anything like that, but I dolike many different genres of
music and I mean I love disco, Ilove, I love, you know, the new

(10:24):
wave stuff from the early 80sor from our high school days,
that kind of stuff.
I mean.

Speaker 2 (10:30):
So, um, somewhere along the line, radio forgot
about all that stuff and it justbecame so, so segmented, you
know yeah, and I'm not sure whatit was that changed, um, maybe
it was the 80s or even the 70s,because then people started
buying the lps.
You know, I'm really I'm notreally sure what it was that

(10:53):
changed, but it I think itreally uh, took its toll on a
lot of people that love musicbecause they didn't know how to
go outside of their comfortzone's not the right term, but
they didn't know how to gooutside of what they're familiar
with to try something new thatthey might end up liking now.
I also, too, grew up next doorto two people bill fricke on one

(11:14):
side, rick carpenter on theother.
Bill fricke had three oldersisters, yeah, and he was my age
, and so they were into like, umwas my age and so they were
into like, um, oh, uh, edgarwinner and frank zappa and todd
rundgren and rick derringer andall this.
I'm like holy shit, I learnedall about that.
Then on the other side, onliterally on the other side of

(11:36):
my house, was uh, rick's placeand his parents bought um a
record collection from a dj, andso everything were.
It was all LPs and it was 50sand 60s.
So that's where I heard EddieCochran, elvis Presley, you know
all the Motown stuff, all ofthis, the quirky, goofy, stupid

(11:58):
60s songs, just like they had inthe 70s.
So I had music all around mefrom all different types of
genres and I feel like I wasblessed that I had more of a
rounded musical upbringing.
And the perfect way to say thiswould be some of you that are
actually listening, that areKISS fans.

(12:19):
When the solo albums came out,I didn't have any preconceived
notion about what they would orwouldn't be, and the Peter Criss
solo record takes a hugebeating from a lot of KISS fans
because it's not.
Whatever it is, I love thatrecord and I love that record
because of all of my otherinfluences.
It's a great record.

(12:40):
It's just not what you wouldexpect probably him to do, but
it doesn't mean that it's bad.
And there are expect probablyhim to do, but it doesn't mean
that it's bad.
And there are so many kiss fansthat just can't stand that
album because they probablynever listened to, I'm assuming,
a variety of different types ofmusic.

Speaker 1 (12:56):
I don't know right and and you know what to to that
.
First off, when, when the, whenthe solo albums came out, we
knew Kiss for what they were.
We only knew what we read aboutthem in Hit Parade or Circus or
Cream or 16 or whatevermagazines that they were in, and

(13:20):
we didn't realize the differentmusical backgrounds of each
member of Kiss.
Nobody realized that PeterCriss came from a big band swing
background and that's what hegrew up in and that's what he
actually.
Those are the type of bandsthat he played in before Kiss.

(13:41):
And so when you hear that kiss,and so when you hear that, when
you first put the needle onPeter's album, you're like what
is this?
I mean, this isn't anything offof Love Gun or Hotter Than Hell
or anything like that.
So you're shocked and you don'thave to think.

(14:02):
But for us music geeks, as timehas gone on, we get it, we
understand it and we not justaccept it, but we take it in and
look at it a lot differentlyand realize, okay, this is where
Peter was coming from and thatwas what he was expressing at

(14:24):
that time.

Speaker 2 (14:27):
Yeah, absolutely, and I just never gave it any
thought.
I just was excited I wasgetting four Kiss records and
they were.
The only one I didn't like wasJeans, because it was just too,
I don't know, it was just shitty, I don't know how, and it
wasn't again, I wasn't that Iwas expecting anything from him,
but you have a tendency I thinkwe all do to gravitate towards

(14:49):
the songs that you love forwhatever reason, whatever they
are, and I just felt like somuch of the stuff that was on
that solo album, like when youWish Upon a Star and then when
he Redid See you in your Dreams,which is just fine on Rock and
Roll Over it just, and man of athousand, I just it's like it's
just.
I don't know I wanted the wholerecord to be like radioactive

(15:12):
right, right, I, yes, I hear youthere.

Speaker 1 (15:15):
Um, you know I don't have as much a problem with
gene's solo album as a lot ofother people.
But but to what you said, wherepeter's peter's just kind of go
, it's like the other three acepaul peter, whatever the sound
of that record is, it's prettymuch consistent from the

(15:35):
beginning to the end.

Speaker 2 (15:36):
Where jeans is like this yes, and there's just too
much stuff on there that I justdon't appreciate yeah, yeah,
yeah, yeah, like even the, eventhe, the the solo album he
released.

Speaker 1 (15:50):
What was it?
2004 or five, whatever it was.
Asshole yeah, that's the samething.
It does this.
It's got some good stuff on it,but but it's just, man, it's
just up and down all the waythrough.

Speaker 2 (16:06):
And I liked his stuff in Kiss.
I love a lot of the songs thathe writes.
I mean, he is an amazingsongwriter and that's why I
think I was even more confusedby the whole thing.
And it's just to me and that'skind of the point, at least from
my perspective is, if the songis good, I like it.
I don't care who it it, I don'tcare who it is, I don't care

(16:26):
what it is.
Either I like it or I don't.
That's no different than likingpizza.
Some people like thin crust,some people like deep dish.
Neither is right or wrong.
It's just what you like.
I just think that the minutethat you stop trying to find new
music, you're cheating yourself, because there's so much great
music coming out right now.
You just have to look for itand make an effort.

Speaker 1 (16:49):
You know, and I was going to get into this too where
, like I said, we're both musicnerds but for me, I I would say
my, my musical, I I would say my, my musical.
I don't know what, um, I don'twant to say taste or anything
but but the stuff that I reallydive into, I would say mine is

(17:18):
like so okay, yours, you have alot more breadth to what you
enjoy over what I enjoy, and Ijust know that from one talking
to you and two, seeingeverything that you post on your
Facebook page about thedifferent bands that you go see,
and listening to the podcast aswell.

(17:39):
So, yeah, you've got a lot morebreadth than I do.
But I know that when I dig intosomething, when I like
something, I really dive into itand I want to know just about
anything and everything there isto know about it.

Speaker 2 (17:54):
Well, and I'm always being accused of not even being
a KISS fan.
No, seriously, we get hate mailthat like, why is that asshole
on the show?
He's not even a Kiss fan.
Because it's like, I look atthings differently and I'll give
you a great example.
There are all these people whoare so excited about Off the
Soundboard Right, fine, look, ifyou would have told me 50 years

(18:20):
later, because I've been a fanfor almost 50 years now, because
Dressed to Kill is my firstrecord, okay, good.
Later, because I've been a fanfor almost 50 years now because
Dressed to Kill is my firstrecord, okay, good, we're gonna.
Yeah, all right, yeah, uh, I umit's, I don't even know how to
explain it.
It's you just get used todifferent things by trying
different things.
Yeah, and I don't think that Ihave to be a heavy metal fan to

(18:46):
be a KISS fan, and I don't thinkit's wrong for me to like
Billie Holiday.
I can still be a KISS fan.
But that's a problem with someof the fans and I'm sure that
Zeppelin has it and all theseother bands do too.
They almost feel like you'rebeing disloyal if you don't love
everything the band does, whichis ridiculous, because even the

(19:07):
band doesn't like everything.
That we know that.
Yeah, exactly, and I I don'tthink that you have to
pigeonhole yourself like thatbecause there's so much great,
like I said I'm going to keepsaying it there's so much great
music on there, there's so manywonderful bands well, I think
you know going we'll, we'llsteer the ship back a little bit
.

Speaker 1 (19:27):
I I when, when we were kids and we first became
kiss fans.
You know, kiss, there it wasn'tany kiss album wasn't my first
album that I bought we're goingto get into that, I'm going to
ask you that in a minute.
But but, um, they did become myfirst favorite band of all time

(19:49):
.
I mean, it was like anythingand everything kiss, and I kind
of held other bands at baybecause it was like I, you
brought it up.
I don't want to be likedisloyal to my fandom of KISS,
you know so everybody else was awas a threat to that.

(20:11):
Until you know, probably untilI got into to KISS.
You know a couple of years, youknow probably a couple of years
past.
And then I was able to get intoAerosmith and and it was
probably, I wouldn't say VanHalen, but but maybe a little

(20:35):
bit of Van Halen I was never,never, huge on Led Zeppelin.

Speaker 2 (20:43):
And where was I and I ?
But I have several of theirrecords and I like them.
I mean, my brother introducedme to them.
It's kind of funny.
I remember the maturationprocess of my musical interest
or taste.
It started with the kinks.
You really got me thinking thatwas the heaviest thing I'd ever
heard in my life, going holyshit.
Then I hear Helter Skelter bythe Beatles.

(21:04):
I'm like oh my God, okay.
And then Zeppelin IV Crazyheavy song, yes.
And then Zeppelin IV comes out.
My brother brings it home.
I remember it was 1971 and heputs on Black Dog and my mind
was blown.
Yeah, but I don't think it wasdisloyal, I think what it was,
because there was a period oftime that that's almost all I
listened to and I guess, becauseyou're wrapped up in the whole

(21:28):
thing, it goes beyond the music.
That's the piece a lot ofpeople don't understand.
Is there something specialabout that band that's different
unto itself that it takessomething so remarkable to crack
the veneer for you?

(21:50):
And when you're a kid, yeah.
And so what cracked the veneerfor me was eruption when we were
up in the yard playing ball andsomeone brought over the first
van halen album and just comeout and they put on.
You know, know, and I heard youreally got me, I was a but
eruption.
We were all just, we stoppedwhat we were doing and went and
stood over this, you know, boombox going.

(22:14):
What are we?
You know.

Speaker 1 (22:17):
Yeah, the world is that.

Speaker 2 (22:18):
Yeah, but I mean, I would say, during the time
period though, even when I wasin the deepest throes of my
fandom for Kiss, I still waslistening to other stuff because
they weren't my first band, myfirst favorite band was the
Beatles.
I would say the Beatles, theRolling Stones, the Monkees and
Elton John.
Those four, I think, have moreto do with my musical history

(22:43):
and love of music than any otherfour acts I can think of.

Speaker 1 (22:49):
And those bands there that you just mentioned are for
a lot of the bands that we likethat came after that.
They're the foundation, they'rethe reason why those guys
picked up guitars and startedwriting songs and playing
instruments.
Because of the Beatles, theStones, the who, you know, the

(23:09):
Kinks, all those British bandsthat came over in the 60s.

Speaker 2 (23:13):
Yeah, and I also don't fault any band for
actually selling records andmaking money.
I think that whole idea of asellout is stupid.
You know, like if you look atthe newest LA Guns record,
leopard Skin, which hasn't comeout yet it'll be out in a couple
of weeks.
But I just did a review for thealbum.
Yeah, holy shit, is it good.
There's not one throwaway trackon there and it just oozes the

(23:38):
kind of songs I love and it'snothing like.
For those of you that arelistening that are 80s hair
metal fans, it doesn't soundanything like 1980s LA Guns.
It sounds like where theyshould be right now.
They've moved forward, butthey're still able to write this
really great rock record and Ifeel bad for them because I

(24:02):
think it's not going to do well.
And I think the reason it's notgoing to do well and I don't
want to predict the demise isthat people aren't going to give
it a chance simply because it'sLA Guns.
They make an assumption aboutsomething based on, you know, a
preconceived notion from thepast.
And if you're a straightforwardrock and roll fan, this is a
great record.
Go out and buy it.

(24:23):
I would say the same thing toyou about Buck Cherry and
there's.
So I mean, I could go on and onand on about all these bands.

Speaker 1 (24:30):
I know you could no LA Guns.
You know the sad part is.
And to what you said about thealbum selling or not, yeah, it's
probably not going to sellbecause nobody buys music
anymore.
Nobody buys it in the physicalform anyway.
You know, I mean you will, Iwill.
You know there's a few peopleout there, but not enough to

(24:53):
sustain anything.
But at least you know the bandsthat we like, and LA Guns is
one of them, especially sincePhil and Tracy have come back
together.
They've been very prolific andevery every couple of years
they're putting out new musicand it is, it's so good.

Speaker 2 (25:09):
Um and and and.
The tragic part for me is isthat I'm going to go and see
them inevitably sometime thisyear, because I think they're
touring with Tom Kiefer, who's anumber I absolutely love, and
they'll maybe play one song offthis record and I personally
would love to see them play thewhole damn thing.
It's literally that good.

Speaker 1 (25:29):
Now that's how I feel about missing piece.
That thing to me, front to back, is dynamite and you know they
play speed and you know.
Maybe you know and they Speedand maybe that's about it.
But they've got to go and playall the early catalog stuff Just

(25:58):
like so many of our otherfavorite bands.
Like I said, music geeks, welove the bands that we love and
we dive deep into them and wedon't necessarily care for the
hits.

Speaker 2 (26:11):
We want to hear all the deep tracks, we want to hear
the stuff that never getsplayed right and unfortunately,
um, that's not the world we livein, because so many of these
bands are now playing festivalsor they're playing multiple bill
.
You know types of shows wherethey have to play the most
familiar stuff or the crowd willjust leave.

(26:33):
You know, I had oneconversation with Tommy Thayer
about this.
We were talking about differentKiss songs and why he can't get
them to play these differentthings.
And he's like, well, we'vetried some things and I
mentioned a couple of songs.
I can't even tell you what theywere at this point.
We were just talking about itbackstage and he's like you know
, we tried X and he said it'sjust like the audience's eyes

(26:58):
glazed over and it just doesn'twork.
Because if you go to a KISS showand there's I don't know 18,000
people there, of that 18,000people, at least 50% of them
have never seen the band beforethey're going because they've
heard it's a spectacle.
And then I would say, of thatremaining 50%, 40% are casual

(27:22):
fans.
And if this wasn't true, thenthe tribute bands wouldn't
complain the way they do aboutthe set list, because they want
to go deeper and that's what Iwould want to see in a tribute
act.
I mean, there's a lot ofreasons why Kiss does and
doesn't do it, and I've given uptrying to make the argument
about the set list.
But the point is they'replaying the most familiar songs.

(27:46):
They have to appease thebroadest audience they possibly
can.
That happens to be in front ofthem that night and that's
actually what their job is.
Now, if we are the type ofpeople where we go and see
multiple shows, that's on us,that's not on the band.
Yeah, and not everybody can beBruce Springsteen.

(28:07):
And you know, and let's face it, bruce Springsteen has a 70s
light show.
He puts on an amazingthree-hour performance.
Okay, but there's no pyro,there's no special lighting,
there's no effects, there's no,nothing, and so there's no, with
no choreography.
You can pretty much do whateverthe hell you want to do.

Speaker 1 (28:29):
Well, not only that, bruce will play a three hour
show, but he's probably onlyfitting in about 12 songs,
because he talks for an hour anda half.
There's that too.

Speaker 2 (28:40):
And so you just need to, you just need to kind of, I
think, set your expectations solike if you know.
That's why, when people say,well, kind of, I think, set your
expectations, so like if youknow, that's why, when people
say, well, what's you know, giveme, you know, some of your top
five KISS shows you've ever seen.
One that's in the top five forme was at Chuck Brennan's pawn
shop in South Dakota.

(29:01):
He had opened this it's nolonger there now but it was a
pawn shop that was a studio,slash, entertainment complex,
stage, huge screen behind it,and what they did is everything
that they had in the pawn shopwas on rollers.

Speaker 1 (29:16):
Oh, yes, yes, yes.

Speaker 2 (29:17):
Yeah, and they would just roll everything out of the
way.
Well, this was a KISS show, itwas acoustic and it was for a
charity, and that's the firsttime in many years.
I remember standing there justlike in awe because I didn't
know what was coming next butthat's the way they would always

(29:38):
do their acoustic sets, which Imean so there's your
opportunity if you're a Kiss fan, if you want, you want to see.
But you know what, when they didthat, the tour, the convention
tour, there's some assholessitting in front of me yelling I
love it loud and it's just likeyou, dumb son of a bitch.

(30:00):
Really, this is an acousticshow.
And he'd be like, okay, okay,what songs haven't I heard, or
what songs would they do?
That could be cool acoustic.
Well, for those of you that arenot kiss fans, I love it.
Loud is not an acoustic song inany way, shape or form no, no
so you know you're also dealingwith that.

Speaker 1 (30:23):
I tell you what one of the best set lists I've ever
heard was.
Kiss Unplugged the MTV.
There you go, but the wholething, not the edited version,
the whole.

Speaker 2 (30:36):
Thing.
Oh, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1 (30:38):
That was probably one of the best set lists that I've
heard, but that's because Iwant to hear stuff that they
don't play and, um, and that'swhat they did that night.
And look, the, the, the.
The one time, the one show thatyou and I were at was the Vegas

(31:00):
residency back in 2014.
And, and you know, I think, didthey play Creatures of the
Night?
That show?
Yes, yes, okay, and they alsoplayed Tears Are Falling, but
they played those two songs.
And guys like you and I andMichael, who was there as well,
we're going to stand on ourchairs, we're going to be

(31:20):
pumping our fists and you knowabout 80%, 90% of those people
are going to just be likestanding there with their arms
folded.
Hey, I want to hear detroitrock city.
Come on, hurry up.

Speaker 2 (31:30):
Yeah, the ultimate example for me of a band that
destroyed itself was aerosmith.
Because when I'm at anaerosmith show and they're
playing kings and queens orSeasons of Wither and my friend
and I were like oh, and everyonein the crowd behind us is just
like what's this?

(31:50):
And then they do.
I don't want to lose a thing.
And these people go crazy andI'm like, okay, where's the gun?
So I can shoot myself in theface.
Yeah, yeah, exactly BecauseAerosmith died in the early 80s
and I'm not taking away theirsuccess I'm not saying it's
wrong that they did what theydid, but it's just not even a

(32:11):
band I recognize anymore.
At least with Kiss I totallyknow who they are.
Same with Cheap Trick.
I mean Cheap Trick's.
I would say Cheap Trick andBlackberry Smoke are two of the
best bands to see live, whereyou won't know what they're
going to play.

Speaker 1 (32:27):
You're right, that's the thing about Cheap Trick,
cheap Trick.
They don't look.
They can play any song in theircatalog at the drop of a hat.
They don't even rehearse, Iknow but they can.

Speaker 2 (32:39):
That blows my mind.

Speaker 1 (32:40):
Yeah, they just okay and they'll change their set
list every single night.

Speaker 2 (32:46):
That I want to say dax nielsen, the drummer who's
rick's son, he saved that band.
When he joined that band, hesaved them.
He changed him up a little bit.
Well, no, he saved.
He saved them from deathbecause bunny carlos is such a
miserable curmudgeon well, andhe didn't want it.

Speaker 1 (33:03):
You're right, he didn't want to play all this
other stuff, he wanted to playthe same.
You know 12, 15 songs everynight, yeah, but.
But but what's what's weird?
Yeah, I know people dressed tokill.
We're going to get to it.
But you know, with cheap trickfans, they come to expect that

(33:24):
and they have no issue with itat all.
They look forward to it.
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (33:33):
Yeah, except a couple of songs, because it's kind of
become a running joke for methat every time I see them I'm
like play up the creek, which ismy favorite Che trick song, and
most people hate it and theband hates it.
So I'll be standing on the sideof the stage and Dax is playing
drums and I'll be like you know, and they just look at me like,

(33:56):
oh God, really again you know,so yeah you know, it's just
again.
It goes back to what yourtastes are.

Speaker 1 (34:03):
Yeah, you know.
Yeah, well, look, okay, I knowwe got way off topic, but, like
I said, we're just I mean, we'retwo guys talking music because
we love music so much yeah, wedo.
Now we could spend the rest ofthe morning here in the
afternoon, where you are talkingabout everything except KISS.

(34:26):
But because we're supposed tobe celebrating KISS and Dressed
to Kill turning 50, then that'sexactly what we're going to do.
So, all right, so let's kind ofget back into it.
So, march 19th that was whatwas that?
Was that Wednesday?

(34:46):
I think that was Wednesday.
Yeah, that was, that was the50th.
That was 50th anniversary ofthe release of Kiss's third
studio album, dressed to Kill.
Yep, and you already mentionedit, you said that was your first
KissISS album that you bought.
Yes, for me, mine was KISSAlive, and that's how I got

(35:18):
introduced to KISS was KISSAlive, and so then I had to,
kind of, I think I went forwardbefore I went back.

Speaker 2 (35:26):
But what was your?
All of our journeys aredifferent you know, oh yeah, of
course.

Speaker 1 (35:34):
And when did you pick that album up?

Speaker 2 (35:38):
That would be, I want to guess, spring, or probably
late spring of 75.

Speaker 1 (35:48):
Okay, so you, you did get it on the initial release
then.

Speaker 2 (35:51):
Yeah, but it wasn't like on the release date.
I was too young to understandany of that.
Yeah, yeah, of course.
I actually remember the daylike it was yesterday.
It was at target and, uh, mybrother took me there cause I
wanted to buy a record.
My dad gave me some money tobuy an album because they knew
how much I was into music and Iwould go to shop every single

(36:13):
week and I was looking for aMonkees album called Refocus and
it has a cool cover.
It's like an old camera withthem in the lens and it's
nothing more than a greatesthits record.
That's all it is.
If you look at it, it's reallyactually quite disappointing.

(36:34):
Nothing like, you know, barrelFull of Monkeys or some of these
really cool compilations theyhave.
And I was looking for thatrecord specifically because I
had seen it in a different storeand I wanted it because I was
like into the monkeys and theydidn't have it.
And so my brother's like well,why don't you try something
different?
Pick something else out?
You know, much to his dismay,I'm filing through and I see

(36:59):
drastic killing.
Oh, this looks cool.
And he's like no, dude, he'slike you don't want that.
I remember the conversation.
He's like, why would you?
That's?
That's because he's into bobdylan and, and you know so he
like he even tried to to messwith me when we were, when I was
younger, when we would havechristmas, I would ask for a
kiss record or something, andhe'd give me fleetwood mac.

(37:20):
But I'm just like, really, comeon, man, you know.
And so that's how I ended upwith it and I took it home and I
was just mesmerized, but also,too, it was still so young that
I didn't the thought hadn'toccurred to me that they have
other records, because Iremember being really young and

(37:43):
listening to Sergeant Pepper,like I told you.
And then I went over to mysister's house and she was
living with her roommate, mary,and Mary was a big Beatles fan.
And I remember, literally Iremember to this day I couldn't
have been more than seven yearsold, maybe eight, sitting in
their room or in their livingroom at their apartment,
thumbing through these records.

(38:03):
And I pulled out Rubber Souland I think it's because it was
such a weird cover.
Right, right, it's this.
I had no concept that therewere other Beatles albums.
I didn't know.
You know when you're a kid, butyou know.

Speaker 1 (38:17):
Yeah, no, exactly, so you were just.
You took to Dressed to Kill,like right away.

Speaker 2 (38:27):
Yeah, oh God, yeah, because I sat there and just I
was mesmerized by the look.
I was just like this isunbelievable.
And it's the same kind of thingthat joe elliott told me.
We were talking about kiss, andjoe elliott from deaf leopard,
and he said that he rememberswalking down the street in his

(38:48):
hometown and he had never heardof them before, and there was
this massive display fordestroyer in the window and I
remember him saying to me he'slike I looked at that and
thought, if this sounds anythingnear as cool as it looks, I'm
gonna love this record.
And it turned out that that wasexactly the case for him.

(39:11):
It was the same thing with thedress to kill, you know, and I
probably put away a bowie record, I probably put away a rick
derringer album and severaldifferent things.
They just wasn't quite sold on.
And I saw this cover.
I'm like, oh, this is cool.

Speaker 1 (39:28):
You know, oh yeah, really, where the journey
started I, and I think that'show I mean come on, we on, we're
kids, we're kids, we don't knowany better.
And you know information didn'tcome as it wasn't readily
available, like it is now, likeit has been the last 40 years.
But you know, you thumb throughthe records at the record store

(39:55):
and the cover looks cool andyou're like this has to be cool
and you buy it well, yeah, togive you an idea of how isolated
things were then.

Speaker 2 (40:06):
I mean, back then we didn't have cable TV.
Obviously there was no internet.
We had three channels and abunch of radio stations.
So when I bought that recordthat was I.
When I got that record I didn'tbuy another kiss record for
probably nine, ten monthsbecause I didn't realize there
were any others.
And I remember riding around inthe car with my brother and he

(40:27):
had kq on, which is a local rockstation here, and they played
the live version of rock androll all night and I was
confused because I know thatsong but it sounds different but
it sounds totally different andI couldn't have car solo in it
yeah, I could, I couldn't.
I couldn't grasp the conceptyeah, yeah, I don't know how,

(40:50):
how I figured it out, but thensooner or later someone at
school or a friend or whateverthey're like, oh yeah, that's
the, they have a live record.
And then I bought that and thenit then it seems like after I
got alive.
Then from that point forward Irealized that there were other
records and that these bands putnew music out, but it just,

(41:11):
even though it's like I, I wasbuying 45s, I didn't realize
there was new music, because Ithink up until that point I was
kind of somewhat living in thepast because I'm listening to
Elvis and the Beatles and theRolling Stones, and the Beatles
broke up in 1970.
Here I am in fourth grade and74, 75 going well, okay, but

(41:34):
they don't put more records out.

Speaker 1 (41:36):
But the whole thing was really confusing, yeah it's
because we're just kids, yeah,but now for me, I think, if I,
if memory serves me correctly, Ithink the next kiss album I
bought I think it was love gunand and I got that right on

(41:58):
release maybe not the day, but,you know, right around that,
because I remember just wearingthat cassette out that whole
summer.
But when I after that, when Ihad gone back in the catalog,
because now it's like, okay, youknow, kiss has these other
records I think I had, I think Ialready had Destroyer as well

(42:18):
too.
But then I, I, I went and Ipicked up the debut album.
I put the needle on that thingand I was like what's wrong with
the stereo, what's wrong withthe record?
You know, because you know, youhear these songs, songs on kiss
alive and there's so much moreenergy to them and and the, and,

(42:41):
and, like I said, we're kids atthe time so we don't understand
production and what's what?
What sounds good, what soundscrappy?
I just know it's different.

Speaker 2 (42:49):
I'm like, wow, I don't like this stuff at all
right, I was the same way, andexcept what's weird about it, I
think, is that their recordingsfailed miserably over the test
of time compared to say, like tome.
I just did this thing withHairball, where I asked all of
the members what to you, in youropinion, is a perfect album,

(43:14):
and my answer to that questionwould be elton john, goodbye
yellow brick road.
Okay, it's.
To me it's a masterpiece on onmany levels, and so when you
look and you listen to 1973,goodbye yellow brick road.
And then you listen to hotterthan hell from 74, it's like

(43:36):
were these even recorded in thesame decade?

Speaker 1 (43:39):
that exactly.
And well, and and look, there'sa kid that lived down the
street.
He was like a year older thanme and he had an older brother
who had turned him on to ledzeppelin.
So this is why I hated ledzeppelin for so long, because he
was like oh, zeppelin's thebest, kiss sucks, kiss is a
kiddie band, blah, blah, blah,this kind of crap.

(44:00):
And and I was like, hey, shutup, that's my band, you know.
And come on, we, I'm sure youwere just like me.
We're almost getting fights overthis kind of stuff constantly
and so so, but you would listento those Zeppelin records and
they just sounded so differentthan anything that Kiss was

(44:21):
putting out production wise andyou know, eddie Kramer had a lot
to do with that too, but hewasn't doing this, he didn't
deliver the same thing for Kiss,and I don't understand the ins
and outs and all that still tothis day.

Speaker 2 (44:35):
But Well, the first three records he had nothing to
do with.
He did the demos, so they werehiring on the cheap.
So the first two records wereKenny Kerner and Richie Wise and
I'm convinced they didn't knowwhat the hell they were doing.

Speaker 1 (44:49):
I don't think so either.

Speaker 2 (44:50):
The third record Dressed to Kill, that was Neil
Bogart.
Neil Bogart is the owner or thepresident of Casablanca Records
.
He produced the record becausethey were losing so much money
that he decided to produce therecord.
And I would say, of the firstthree, dressed to Kill actually
sounds the best of the three, Iagree, I agree, but that's why

(45:11):
they did it.
And here's the funny thing forall of you people that don't
know this.
And here's the funny thing forall of you people that don't
know this KISS is responsiblefor disco.

Speaker 1 (45:19):
Oh, come on, Tommy, oh, yes, yes, yes they are.

Speaker 2 (45:23):
I was hoping we were going to get into that.

Speaker 1 (45:25):
They certainly are.

Speaker 2 (45:27):
Think about it.
Because Alive was so successful.
Yes, a blank was on the vergeof collapse, literally Because
Neil Bogart was a brilliant,brilliant guy, but he was, and
this came from his wife and hisson.
He'd spend two dollars to makeone and neil was a big picture
guy.
So when a live hit and started,you know, multiple platinum,

(45:52):
boom, boom, boom.
All that money he took and heinvested into donna summer,
parliament and a lot of theother disco.
I don't consider parliament,you know, but my point is he
pushed things out so that peoplecould hear different stuff.
He, he that funded donna summerand so much of that to come.

(46:16):
So if any of you out there arelistening that hate disco, blame
Paul and Jane.

Speaker 1 (46:22):
Kiss Bank rolled disco.
Yes, they did, they did, theydid.
But this is how geeky we are.
Yeah, there's, you know.
Look, if a thousand peoplewatch this episode, oh my God,
it'd be the greatest thing sincesliced bread.
But 998 of them don't even knowthat, right?

(46:44):
But how crazy is that?
So don't hate on KISS so much.
If you love disco, don't hateon KISS, because thanks to KISS,
you got Donna Summer and yougot the Village People and you
got, like you said, you gotParliament and Funkadelic
because of it, though theyweren't disco, but you got them

(47:06):
Right.

Speaker 2 (47:08):
They definitely had a groove that wasn't heavy metal.
And that's the thing that's sointeresting to me is because
when you learn about it, musicis just intertwined like this.
You know there's so manydifferent facets of it and the
funny thing is is that you know,by admission, all of the guys
in Kiss would probably tell youthat they're huge Led Zeppelin

(47:29):
fans, and I've never heard whyyou can't like both.
Can't like both.
But if you, if I listen to themusic again, it goes back to the
pizza argument.
The songs that have held thetest of time for me are more so
in the kiss catalog than theyever would be in the led
zeppelin catalog.
And it doesn't mean that ledzeppelin isn't a great band and

(47:49):
that people should love them theway that they do.
It's just.
It doesn't hit me the way.

Speaker 1 (47:58):
It.
Just it doesn't hit me the waythe other stuff does, because
that was at the, the beginningstages of our love for music and
we latched onto KISS.
Maybe it was the visual thingat first that caught our
attention.
It's like when you see a redcar driving down the street, it
doesn't matter what kind of carit is, you see red and you look,
and I think that's the effectthat KISS had on us as kids, and

(48:21):
a lot of other people as well,and so it holds so much more of
a special place in our heartsbecause of that.
And I don't know where I wasgoing with it and I don't know
where I was going with it.
Oh, but getting back to LedZeppelin, yeah, look, I think

(48:44):
that the music magazines HipParader, cream, circus I think
that they are the ones thatreally kind of created this kiss
versus led zeppelin thing.
I really think it was thembecause I remember seeing stuff

(49:04):
in the papers and they're alwaystrying to compare the two bad,
compare paul stanley to robertplant, you know.
And and always comparing peterchris to john bonham, who's the
better drummer, and this andthat, and it was, it was.
You know it was kind of silly.
But then you get to the 80s andyou get to the the Animal Eyes

(49:26):
Asylum time of the band andGene's playing Moby Dick.
He's doing a Moby Dick solo.
Paul's writing songs that areZeppelin-esque on Asylum and

(49:49):
they're showing more of theinfluence that Zeppelin had on
them.

Speaker 2 (49:54):
Yeah, absolutely, and I'm sure that that's just how
things change over time.
I just never understood thehatred by some of the kids in my
school for liking somethingthat I like, and we all took
crap like that and.
I was never interested in anargument because I liked Led
Zeppelin as well, but at the endof the day, like I said, it
comes down to the songs and whathits you and what doesn't you

(50:17):
know, and I think I would beremiss if I don't mention this
as well.
For those of you that are KISSfans, that are interested in
hearing a different version ofthings, there's a guy Just look
him up on YouTube Frankenstein.
Are you looking at my notesTommy.

(50:44):
Well, and it was funny because I, I, uh, he redid it Ken is a I
can't even explain Ken, yeah,nice guy, but he, he has this
ability to mix songs.
So I'll give you an example,and I'm probably going to get
this wrong, and you shouldprobably have them on your
podcast to talk about this stuff, because it's fascinating.

Speaker 1 (50:59):
All you got to do is give me a contact and I'll try.

Speaker 2 (51:02):
I'm sure he'd love to come on, that's not a problem.
So he took Come On and Love Me,which is a single off of
Dressed to Kill, and he justredid it.
And he redid the video as well,because there was a promo video
for it in 75, and what he didis he takes actual drumming
parts from peter chris off oflike live versions of these

(51:25):
songs and then he isolates thedrum track and mixes it in to
the song and he does it withactually all four members, so
it's all of them actuallyplaying all of their parts from
probably five or six differentversions of that song.
Yeah, and he redoes the actualsong.

(51:47):
That's the record version.
And I told him.
I said to him the other nightI'm like all these people are
all excited about these off thesound and all and it, which is
great, I'm all for it.
Look, they're still releasingmusic 50 years into their career
.
This is amazing that they'redoing this.
Whether it's a live soundboardor not, whatever it might be,
those don't interest me as much,but this stuff is like I I

(52:13):
watched that.

Speaker 1 (52:14):
Come on and love me video Now.
I.
I watched that come on and loveme video Now.
Um, the only thing and maybe Iwas missing something, but the
only things that I could tellthat were different, obviously
there were the the drum fills,Um, and then at the back end of
the song, uh uh, where the uhPaul's keeps saying come on,

(52:35):
come on you know.
I don't know if that's all thatwas added to it, but that's
what I picked up, at least rightaway.

Speaker 2 (52:42):
I listened to it several times.
I was so immersed in it theother night and I can't speak to
the video yet because I hadn'twatched it in many years.
But what I also picked up onthat was all the stuff you
mentioned plus the guitar sound,and then the bass was brought
up a lot, so gene's bass wasconsiderably more predominant,

(53:04):
which made the song thicker.
Now he did it to the wholehotter than hell album.
Right, and I hate the hotterthan hell album the way it
sounds, but I love the songs.
To your point earlier about howyou're saying why is it sounds
so great and bombastic and andopen on a live, and then you go
back and listen to the studioand you're like well, these
don't even sound like the samesong.

(53:25):
So he started he's been workingon a bunch of stuff but he did
the whole hotter than hellrecord.
If you haven't heard it, Ihighly recommend I need to
listen to that.
I haven't heard.
It's literally night and day it.
I like his version so much thatI listen to it on a regular
basis.

Speaker 1 (53:42):
Okay, yeah, because I mean I love the songs on hotter
than hell.
I think it.
I think that hotter than hellis is every bit as good as the
debut album, yeah, but but itjust it.
It kind of just plods along.
It just it's like walkingthrough mud.

Speaker 2 (53:59):
Yes, and heavier, which is cool, but it just, it's
just well, imagine if theywould have Mike Peter Chris's
drums the way they would, theywould Mike John Bonham.
That record would soundcompletely different.

Speaker 1 (54:14):
Yeah, yeah, you know it.
You.
You brought it up with the comeon and love me video, um, where
gene's base is up in the mix.
That's the thing with dress tokill.
That I wanted to talk about alittle bit.
Yeah, neil bogart was he's.

(54:35):
He's credited as a producer,although, although if you talk
to Gene and Paul, they say theypretty much produced it, and
Neil was that kind of there justsaying, yeah, okay, that sounds
good, but you know, and so whoknows?
But the production it soundsgood, but the bass is so buried

(54:56):
in the mix on every single song,every track, you can't.
I mean.

Speaker 2 (55:01):
I mean, I'm like doing this and I and I still
can't hear the bass but see,that's why I think that he had a
bigger role in it than thankiss is letting on, because if
you look at the stuff that neilbogart likes, he loves bubblegum
pop and so how do you makesomething sound more radio
friendly and more bubble gummy?
You take the base out of it, soit doesn't have a big low end

(55:24):
to it and it's lighter theArchie's yeah.

Speaker 1 (55:27):
Yeah, gotcha, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, you got a good
point there.
He was looking for a hit atthat point, at that point.
Yeah, and even peter's drumsare, um, I mean it well, except
for she, she.
You really hear the drums ummidway through the song.
When he gets into that tribalbeat, yep and, and I love that

(55:49):
part of the song.
But but aside from that, youknow, peter's drums sound, yeah,
they don't sound anything likeJohn Bonham's, they just sound
really, you know, kind of weak.

Speaker 2 (56:01):
Well, and that's the other thing I think a lot of
people don't know or maybearen't aware of is is the fact
that Peter was.
He was raised in a differentgeneration, so he has a
different style or technique tohis drumming.
That made me feel that kiss wasnot heavy metal, right, at

(56:22):
least they weren't at the time.
They were more just of a hardrock band.
Now he wasn't as heavy of ahitter as, uh, john bonham, and
I'm certainly not a drummer.
So I'm the wrong person to havethis discussion, but maybe we
need to talk to mark.
Yeah, you gotta talk to mark.
He'll be able to bore you todeath with all that and.
But there I think he doesn'tget the credit that he deserves,

(56:43):
sometimes simply because of theway the records were mixed I
completely agree with you onthat.

Speaker 1 (56:48):
And, and as kids we didn't get it too.
So so you know the drum solo ofall drum solos, the end all be
all is 100,000 years.
Come on, okay.
And Peter's always said he camefrom the big band swing

(57:09):
background.
His influences are Gene Krupa,buddy Rich, you know, and I was
listening to 100,000 Years.
I never really picked up on it.
But I'm listening to 100,000Years recently and it starts to
get into the drum solo and Istart listening to it and I'm

(57:29):
going that is so swing that itjust.
I finally got it and I'm like,oh my gosh, I could see Buddy
Rich sitting behind a kitplaying what Peter is playing
Well.

Speaker 2 (57:44):
And if you want to draw a parallel, then take a
look at Jerry Nolan from theDolls, because those two were
really good friends and theyboth took lessons from Gene
Krupa and I would say that theywere both similar in their
drumming styles as well.
So if you listen to those Dollsrecords, there's a lot of stuff
on there that either one ofthem could have switched

(58:04):
positions in the bands and youwouldn't have known it.

Speaker 1 (58:09):
Yeah.
So yeah, peter doesn't get thecredit that he deserves as a
drummer, but when you take hisbackground and then you bring it
into a hard rock band, I meanhe made it fit, he made it work,
yeah, and it works brilliantly.
You know, it really really does.

(58:29):
Yeah he's amazing.
Yeah, absolutely.
And, like I said, we didn'tunderstand it.
When you're 12 years old,you're just listening to the
songs, yeah, and playing airguitar.
I said we didn't understand it.
When you know, when you're 12years old, you're just listening
to the songs, playing airguitar and all that kind of
stuff.
But tell me, um, now that we'vegone through a lot of our
thoughts, I kind of wanted to godown the track list just a
little bit.

(58:50):
Like I don't know, do you havea favorite song on on, uh, on
the album?
Um?

Speaker 2 (58:59):
I would say there's two, okay, um yeah, you're not
limited to one, yeah no, there'stwo that have always stood out
to me, that I've always lovedover, and above all the rest of
them, that would be anything formy baby and lover, all I can,
because they're so differentthan what they normally do.

Speaker 1 (59:22):
You know, I would say , for me favorite song might be
come on and love me, cause it'sjust.
It's just such a good song andit just I mean it just if you,
if you are not stomping yourfeet to that song, and it just I
mean it just.
If you are not stomping yourfeet to that song and you're not
shaking your hips, something'swrong with you.

(59:43):
And it's just such a cool song.
I dig the lyrics.
I always dug them as a kid.
You know one of the best linesshe touched her hips and told me
that she'd let me.
You know, it's like when you're12, you're like whoa, yeah
exactly, exactly.
Yeah, but um, um, so I love thatone and uh and you brought it

(01:00:07):
up love her all I can.
So much so.
And I, I, I didn't appreciatethe song until I met Catherine
and when we were getting married.
Unfortunately we didn't get tohave our church wedding, but the
song after we get announced andbegin to exit the church was

(01:00:29):
gonna be Lover All I Can,because the lyrics are so great.
Oh yeah, they're just so, sogreat and it's just such a
catchy tune as well.

Speaker 2 (01:00:41):
Yeah, it's just different.
I don't know why, but there'sjust something special about
those two songs.
They really stuck out to me thefirst time I heard them and I
like the whole record.
The only thing I don't like isI don't like Rock and Roll All
Night.
I think it's such an awfulversion.
Tommy, I could kiss you rightnow.
Yeah, yeah, it's just like theCheap Trick album version of I

(01:01:07):
Want you to Want Me.
Right right, right right.
They were going for somethingdifferent than what it is.
Yeah, yeah yeah, but other thanthat I love the whole record.

Speaker 1 (01:01:17):
It's fun, I agree, yeah, it's.
It really really is top tobottom.
It's a great record, greatsongs.
Worst song on the record rockand roll all night.
Worst song.
Worst song.
Worst version of that song Um,you know she, uh, just a great
song.
Um, like I said, you knowPeter's tribal drumming in that

(01:01:40):
song is awesome.
And again, going back to whenyou're a kid, you know, and the
line she takes off her clothes,I had no idea it was about a
prostitute.

Speaker 2 (01:01:50):
I had no idea at all.
When you're a kid, you don'tthink that that's yeah, that's
not in your wheelhouse,especially after you've been
listening to.
You know the monkeys yeah, yeah, exactly.

Speaker 1 (01:02:01):
But but then you get to, um, uh, like rock bottom, I
mean tremendous song, and comeon that.
That ace freely intro isabsolutely tremendous.
And the sad part is I don'tknow if it was edited out, but

(01:02:23):
on the alive version, you know,we get that, that mini mini
intro yeah, but I love the liveversion of that song.

Speaker 2 (01:02:32):
It just it.
All those songs on a live fromthose first three records, in my
opinion, come to life, andthat's where the frustration is
for a lot of the KISS fans thatwould love to hear live versions
of those other songs.
But then, in all fairness, somesongs just don't work live, and

(01:02:52):
I don't even mean from theaspect of that conversation I
was telling you about with TommyThayer.
It's just there's some songsthat they translate really well
on vinyl and you love them, butthey don't necessarily work live
and I don't know why that is,but they just don't.

Speaker 1 (01:03:07):
Right, right, you know, getaway, I mean speaking
about Peter.
You know, obviously he,obviously he's underrated as a
drummer.
He's a tremendous drummer andwell, I guess I could say was
because he's, you know, retirednow, but but you know,
tremendous drummer, um, but henever gets enough credit for his

(01:03:30):
singing ability as well, and healways seemed to do a fabulous
job when it was his turn.

Speaker 2 (01:03:39):
Yeah, you know.
Yeah, I just think that he myunderstanding of you is just
such a malcontent.
So difficult to work with yeah,that's going to be tough to you
know all be in a boat and you'rerowing towards shore and
someone's drilling a hole in thebottom of the boat.
Yeah, that's how it feels andthat's why it ended up the way

(01:04:02):
that it ended up.
But we got that small slice.
That was amazing, and that'susually what it is with most
bands.
Most bands don't make it likethe Rolling Stones.
You know where they're togetherfor all the years that they've
been together.
It just doesn't work out, andsometimes the most production
you're gonna get out of a bandis six or seven years.

(01:04:25):
And I think it's also okay tobe a fan of a band and not own
everything they have or havedone.
It doesn't make you any more orless of a fan.
That's.
Another problem with some ofthe KISS fans is that they're
just so self-righteous that like, well, if you weren't there in
1974, you didn't buy the firstalbum when it came out, the day

(01:04:46):
it came out you're not a fan.
It's like, well, chances areyou didn't either.

Speaker 1 (01:04:50):
Exactly, yeah, yeah, you know, let me see.
Last time I looked you're liketwo years younger than me, so
I'm sure you weren't therestanding in line buying it the
day.

Speaker 2 (01:04:59):
Exactly, and we've always made that argument on our
podcast that a casual fan isjust as important as a mega fan,
and a fan who became, you know,part of their music and
everything was you know in the80s or nineties is just as valid
of a fan as someone who's beenthere since the seventies.

Speaker 1 (01:05:21):
Absolutely, and I'm going to steal.
I'm going to steal a line fromfrom Mark.
You know he says timeline iseverything and and it it all
depends on where you jump inthis world or any band.
But we're talking about kisshere because I mean, for crying
out loud, they were around,they've been around for 50 years

(01:05:43):
and and now some people, somepeople didn't come to kiss until
the eighties.
Maybe they didn't even.
You know, they, they kind ofknew who they were, didn't pay
attention, but then there wasthis thing called MTV and so
they saw the videos on MTVtv andthat's where they, you know,
got in on kiss.
So, like the non-makeup era ofkiss, that's their band and yeah

(01:06:06):
, they might like stuff beforethat and they might like the
stuff after that, but that'slike their wheelhouse right and
and and.

Speaker 2 (01:06:13):
Some people feel that ace fraley is their guitar
player, other people think it'sBruce Kulik and other people
think it's Tommy Thayer.
Challenge myself that I couldhonestly say I bought their

(01:06:38):
first record and were fans ofthe band since literally the
first album, because especiallyback in the day before the
internet it's weird, it's likebefore the internet it was hard
to find new music unless yourfriends brought it over.
You heard it on the radio yeah,or you were in the record store
all the time, like now you thinkit would be getting easier, but

(01:07:02):
it's harder because there'seven more ability to find music
online with all these streamingplatforms and all of these
different services where you cango to find new music, that it's
almost harder to find it nowbecause you're inundated with so

(01:07:25):
much new stuff.
It's like how do you figure outwhat you like and what you
don't?
And I'd say go back to going tofestivals.
That's the best thing you cando.
If you like heavy metal, forinstance, hard rock, whatever,
yeah, go to a festival, athree-day festival, like maybe
one of Danny Wemmer Presentsfestivals or whatever, and you
will see so many bands therethat if you didn't go, you would

(01:07:47):
never know about and you mightfind something new that you're
like holy shit, this isunbelievable.
I mean, it's happened to memore times than I can count.
I can give you a list of 20bands right now at the top of my
head that if it wasn't for thefestivals, I would have never
heard of.
That.
I absolutely love.

Speaker 1 (01:08:03):
I'm going to tell you right now.
Now, look, as far as a festivalis concerned, look, tommy,
we're pushing 60 here.
Okay, that's an endurance test,true, but I'll tell you about
one band I absolutely knewnothing about until I saw them
open for Kiss, and it was theRock the Nation tour, which was

(01:08:25):
one of the best set lists thatKiss has had, probably since the
Hot in the Shade tour.
And the band that opened thattour tour was z02.
Yeah, and I knew nothing aboutz02 and I took my son with me
and we're sitting, we're sittingthere at irvine meadows and

(01:08:48):
we're looking at joey's drum kitand on the kick drum he's, they
got the z02 logo and it, youknow, from a distance it's hard
to read it, you know.
And and what's the name of thatband, dad, I don't know, but
I'll tell you what.
Those guys.
They tore it up and loved themfrom the, from that minute, and

(01:09:08):
they were selling their, theirdebut cd at the merch stand.
I went out in between show, inbetween sets, and I bought it.
I met the guys.
They were fabulous, yeah, anduh, guys, oh, great guys, paul,
paulie, actually, paulie was onthe, paulie was on the show
about a year ago.
Okay, absolutely Dynamite,dynamite guy.

(01:09:30):
In fact he I, I went at hisbirthday bash, like two weeks
ago at the whiskey, and so he'sjust, he's just a great, great
guy.
And you know, it's unfortunatethat ZO2 is kind of there.

Speaker 2 (01:09:44):
I guess hiatus is the best way to put it you know,
because he was playing in thesuite for a while and then he's
been bouncing around and thenJoey's doing stuff with
different bands.
So, yeah, I mean they'llprobably do something in the
future and they lost one oftheir members.
But that's a great example.
I mean, if you, if you didn'tsee them as an opener, you still

(01:10:05):
may not know who they are tothis day.
Yeah, and I know that I agreewith you the endurance piece,
but at the same time, with thesefestivals, there are some that
aren't quite as big as others,but you know, you can at least
go and and hear somethingdifferent.

Speaker 1 (01:10:22):
Yeah, no, no, absolutely Okay.
To to to to what you're saying,though, Okay, and I'll, I'll.
I'll step back a little bit.
I did.
I was at a, I was at a festival, I don't know, two weeks ago,
three weeks ago, uh, I went toboots in the park it's a country
music festival, Nice and, um, Ithink I, I think I missed the

(01:10:43):
first two acts because theystarted at 1215.
So I think I got there like two, 30.
Okay, but I still saw five ofthe seven bands which is awesome
.
And the only one that I knew wasBrooks and Dunn, who closed the
show.
That's the only one I knew.
The other four previous to themhad no idea and I loved it.

(01:11:04):
There you go.
Do you remember who the otherfour were?
I know one was Parker McCollum.
Yeah, parker mccallum, he'svery good.
Yeah, he would.
Oh, he was great.
Yeah, he reminded me.

Speaker 2 (01:11:21):
He reminded me of a country version of brian adams
yeah, yeah, most of those guyswant to be rock people yeah,
yeah, they really do who was theguy I can't remember, who was
right in front of him, but thenwho?

Speaker 1 (01:11:34):
oh gosh, I just I can't.
I can't recall, but was rightin front of him, but then who?

Speaker 2 (01:11:38):
oh gosh, I just I can't I can't recall, but it was
just, it was so good though,yeah, and I'm shooting a lot of
country Western festivals, andso I'm learning so much more
about country Western music, andthere's some really great acts
out there that I really, reallyenjoy, and you shouldn't be

(01:11:58):
scared to try that too.

Speaker 1 (01:12:00):
When it's real country, when it's down home,
good old boy country.
You know guys that were workingon the oil fields in Arkansas,
you know six months ago andalways wanted to be a musician.
You know that kind of stuff, Ilove that type of stuff.
You know heath sanders, austinmoody, those kind of guys.

(01:12:21):
I'm not into hip-hop with atwang, yeah, but that's
different I'm.

Speaker 2 (01:12:25):
I'm kane brown.
Uh, yeah, no, I don't evenunderstand that.
But but like co wetzel, jellyroll, jelly Roll, parker
McCollum, john Party Pecos andthe Rooftops Whiskey Myers,

(01:12:45):
ashley McBride, there's a lot ofreally, really great artists.
Then, of course, the greatestcountry artist of all time ever
in the history of country music,wheeler walker jr okay you've
heard of him not familiar withthe music.
Do you know who steel panther is?

(01:13:07):
Yeah, okay, he's a countrywestern version of steel panther
gotcha.
He's freaking awesome people.
He is wonderful.
Okay, yeah, he'll never be onany big festivals because you
couldn't have anyone under theage of 18 there, he's awesome.

Speaker 1 (01:13:27):
Is he standing on stage with a blow dryer doing
his hair and all that kind ofstuff too?

Speaker 2 (01:13:33):
No, he's not doing that, okay, but he's thinking
about how he wants to have sexwith every person in your family
, including your father.

Speaker 1 (01:13:39):
I was going to say, and your mom too, yeah, your mom
and grandma.

Speaker 2 (01:13:42):
Yeah, absolutely, he's a depraved deviant.

Speaker 1 (01:13:47):
Oh geez, that's why he's your favorite.

Speaker 2 (01:13:50):
Exactly, he's like come on Because he's like Steel
Panther in the respect that yougo to the show and it's a comedy
routine more than anything elseand you laugh through the whole
thing.

Speaker 1 (01:14:02):
I thought you were going to give me something like
totally serious, like RonnieMillsap or something.

Speaker 2 (01:14:05):
No, I am totally serious, or straight no, I am
totally serious, I think he's, Ithought you were going to oh
come on.
I mean, I like those guys too.
I have a variety of those.
That's great to see.
I just bought an Alabama recordand I bought Great stuff
Miranda Lambert and I boughtShania Twain.
I bought all this stuff herejust over the last month or so,

(01:14:28):
but Wheeler Walker is just he'snext level.

Speaker 1 (01:14:39):
Since you're on depravity and all that stuff,
right?
You know I was while I waswaiting for you to come in in
the studio.
I was just scrolling throughFacebook and I saw some of your
posts and the what's on yourturntable stuff.
Tommy, I had to take ascreenshot, I don't know.
Let me see if I can do this.

Speaker 2 (01:14:52):
That's become really popular, and I'm not really sure
why.

Speaker 1 (01:14:55):
Well, oh wait, hang on, Let me get to my photos here
.
I took a screenshot.
I don't.
I was like are you got?
You got to be kidding me?
This is where to go?
Uh, no, that's not Tommy.
Where's Tommy?
Uh, I can't uh screw it, can'tfind it right now, but I

(01:15:18):
couldn't believe that you werebeing sponsored by, like, sex
coaches and all kinds of stuff.

Speaker 2 (01:15:26):
I didn't I, I'm not even aware of that.

Speaker 1 (01:15:29):
Yeah, I was like what ?
Yeah, I didn't think you wereaware of it, but it was just
kind of funny that-.

Speaker 2 (01:15:34):
Yeah, no, I mean, hey , everybody needs help, I guess.

Speaker 1 (01:15:37):
Yeah, I guess.

Speaker 2 (01:15:39):
Yeah, I don't even pay attention to any of that
because I don't monetize my feed.
I do all of that stuff to giveyou value, to pay attention
because I'm for those of youthat don't know I'm a real
estate agent by trade and sonobody needs a real estate agent
unless you're buying or sellinga home.

(01:16:00):
I totally get it.
You know, it's no differentthan anything else.
When you need it, it's therefor you.
But how do I keep peopleengaged so that when they do
need help buying or selling orhear of someone, they'll think
of me?
Well, that's why I do thesethings, that's why I do these
podcasts, that's why I make thewhat's on your turntable and we
do a lot of really stupid, goofyshit.

(01:16:22):
Like my friend Kyle and I, wewent to record store day in
Minneapolis, where I live, andso Kyle and I hit like nine or
10 record stores on record storeday and we just would go in and
go hey, this is South Metro.
If you're on the South side oftown down in Burnsville,
lakeville area in Minneapolis,st Paul, this is a great place
to go buy records.

(01:16:42):
They have a great use sectionor whatever.
And then we went to all these.
We made like one minute videosand like within 24 hours we had
80,000 views.
Just like going to the recordstore and I got all these
messages from people going dude.
That was so much fun.

Speaker 1 (01:16:59):
We followed you all day you gotta show me how to get
that stuff done it's easy, Ican show you it's.

Speaker 2 (01:17:05):
But my point is it's like who would have ever thought
?
But people are interestedbecause I'm entertained, we're
entertaining them, and they'reonly a minute long.
And and also, too, a lot ofpeople are like well great, when
I come to Minneapolis now Iknow where to shop because I'm
so into the music thing, justlike you are.
Most of our friends, or so manyof our colleagues and friends,
are somehow attached to music inone one way or another.

Speaker 1 (01:17:29):
Yeah Well, speaking of doing other things, why don't
you tell us some of the thingsyou have going on?
You've mentioned podcasts.
Let's talk about them.
What?

Speaker 2 (01:17:43):
do you got going on?
Where do you want to start?

Speaker 1 (01:17:45):
Well, let's start with your two new ventures in
the podcast world.

Speaker 2 (01:17:51):
Okay, I have two new podcasts.
The first one is calledHairball Inscripted.
For those of you that don'tknow who Hairball is, they are a
band out of Minneapolis,michael, the lead guitar player.
We've been friends since wewere 16.
And Hairball is essentially ait's not not a cover band,

(01:18:14):
although that's what people callit.
They go to the extreme becausemike's a kiss fan and loves van
halen all the stuff we love.
So essentially they play allhair metal songs and it's
usually two, maybe three songsmax from a band.
So like, if they do twistedsister dave, one of the three

(01:18:35):
singers will come out dressed uplike Dee Snider and they'll do
a couple of songs and he'llleave.
And then, you know, chris willcome out dressed as Freddie
Mercury and they'll do Queensongs, and you know, and they
just kind of keep revolving.
And now they've got Patrick.
So Patrick will then come outand do Guns N' Roses and they're
so good musicianship-wise andthey nail this stuff.

(01:18:59):
It's freaking perfect.
And so it's an inexpensiveticket it's not going to cost
you $300 to go see them and theidea behind it is oh, you don't
like Journey, wait five minutes,and here's Judas Priest.
Oh, you don't like Judas Priest, wait five minutes and here's
Kiss, and they're alwaysconstantly switching things up.
So they have a huge fan baseand they're selling more tickets

(01:19:21):
than National X.
So I would say on average theysell four to 5,000 tickets per
show.
Yes, but they're only like 35.
So people get two hours of allthe best songs from that genre.
Yeah, pyro and lighting andsmoke, and the whole nine yards.

(01:19:41):
Uh, even dave moody that doesgene, he breathes fire.
So I mean, yes, I've seen that.
Yeah, and so I can't encourageyou enough that if you guys ever
get an opportunity, if you like80s hair metal, look up
Hairball.
They will probably come to acity near you.
So we started one a couple ofweeks ago because we've been

(01:20:03):
talking about it for a long timecalled Hairball Unscripted, and
we're doing exactly what youand I are doing here, and each
week or every other week we havea couple of different band
members and we just talk aboutdifferent things and then we
answer fan questions and so farI mean we've only done two
episodes, but it's off to areally good start and people
seem to really enjoy it.

(01:20:23):
And then the other one is a newone that hasn't debuted yet and
it's called the Hometown Hustle, and I'm going to be
interviewing people from theMinneapolis-St Paul area who own
businesses, not only to heartheir stories because I think
that people's stories areinteresting, regardless of
whether you're famous or not andthen talk a little bit about

(01:20:44):
their business to help peopleknow that.
Okay, here's someone who'sgenuinely the real deal and if
you go to this person, you'regoing to have a good experience.
They're not going to overchargeyou, they're going to take good
care of you and that'sessentially what it is.

Speaker 1 (01:20:58):
So I don't know what's going to happen with that
yet We'll see, right, on, righton, and then, of course, you've
got the biggest KISS podcast inthe entire world.
Three sides of the coin.

Speaker 2 (01:21:10):
Yeah, but that's a big fish in a really small pond,
you know I mean there's like amillion Kiss.

Speaker 1 (01:21:19):
Okay, there's not a million, there's about a hundred
Kiss podcasts.
Is there that?

Speaker 2 (01:21:23):
many Because I haven't listened to any of them.
I mean, I really truly don't.
It's something we get togethertwo weeks, two hours per week,
and we record this thing andthen I don't think about it
again the rest of the week.
It's just, it's.
It's no different than anythingelse you do in your life and
it's been really rewarding.
And the thing that blows my mindthe most about it is how many

(01:21:45):
musicians listen, because Ican't tell you how many times
I've been at a festival and I'mdown in the pit photographing a
band and one of the guys keepslooking at me and he's got this
weird look on his face.
And then, about halfway through, he looks at me.
He's just like, like rant, youknow Randy Wetzel from in this
moment.

(01:22:05):
He's a guitar player in thismoment, super nice guy, great
band in this moment, excellent.
And he kept looking at me.
He'd walk away and he'd look atme and he'd walk away.
And then finally he comes overand he's like he pulls his
sleeve up and he's got thismassive Gene Simmons tattoo and
he's like, and I'm like, yes,yes, and that stuff happens all

(01:22:28):
the time and I'm just blown awayby it.

Speaker 1 (01:22:36):
Just for the people in my audience, I'm going to
tell you guys, check out threesides of the coin.
Check out all of Tommy'spodcasts, especially if you're
in the market for a home.
But not only that.
Check out three sides of thecoin.
They have like 600 episodes andI mean you guys have been, I
think, like 11 years, somethinglike that.

Speaker 2 (01:22:53):
Yeah, 12 years, 11, 12 years now.

Speaker 1 (01:22:55):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:22:56):
We're at like 808, 850 million minutes listener.
I don't know Some insane it is.

Speaker 1 (01:23:04):
It's crazy, but but.
But what I was getting to isthe guests that these guys have
on their show.
These guys, man, they pull outall the stops.
They've got.
It's incredible, the gueststhat they have, and it's not
just the, it's not the peoplethat everybody knows Okay, it's

(01:23:32):
not, it's not only them.
You get a lot of the behind thescenes folks as well, and
sometimes that's when you getthe best stories and the best.

Speaker 2 (01:23:40):
Oh, absolutely that's that's why people are you got
to have the band on.
Well, we've had band members onand there's nothing wrong with
that, it's wonderful, and we, welove that they participate.
But they, but they're not goingto tell us anything that we
don't already know, I mean,unless we're lucky and something
comes out in that interview.
But it's the other people, it'sthe people around the band and
the people behind stage and, toyour point, and other musicians

(01:24:04):
who are fans of the band, that Ithink have a tendency to be
considerably more interesting,although I do find it
interesting that the band ishyper aware of it.
You know, because Paul Stanleylistens on a regular basis,
because I can tell you, there'sbeen more than one time where
I'm backstage and he pulls me tothe side and lectures me for

(01:24:25):
about five, 10 minutes.
He gives you the business, yeah, and he's always nice.
I mean, all of them are very,regardless of what you hear, I'm
going to tell you when you getbehind the veneer, all of those
guys are really kind people.
You know, they really they are.
They're truly kind, wonderfulpeople and they do a lot of

(01:24:50):
charitable stuff and a lot ofamazing things that they just
never talk about, right?
So, for all that vibrato withJean, he's a teddy bear, he is.
I could make him cry If you putme in front of him right now.
I could make him cry by askinghim one specific question, and
he done it to him before.
Yeah, you know, and and they're, they're just, they're

(01:25:11):
wonderful people as well as knowace fraley as well, ace is just
, he's just a super nice person.

Speaker 1 (01:25:21):
You know, they're just great people yeah,
absolutely, and and again, againpeople in my audience, the guys
from three sides they're.
They're like buddies witheverybody in the music business.
Okay, they're best buddies witheverybody in the band Kiss.
Well, the most recent lineup ofthe band, plus all the past

(01:25:46):
members of the band too, andsome of them have been on the
show, some of them haven't, mostof them haven't let's put it
that way Other than Peter.
Peter hates us.

Speaker 2 (01:25:54):
Well, yeah, which is sad because we love Peter.
Exactly.
The problem with Peter to acertain degree, and even Ace to
a lesser degree, is there's agroup of sycophants that like.
I'll give you a great exampleOne of the records that Ace had
released a number of years agoand I don't remember if it was
anomaly or whatever we did areview of it on the show and I

(01:26:16):
think I gave it like an eightout of ten or maybe even a nine
out of ten, and mark was verysimilar and michael gave it like
a six out of ten.
I think that was anomaly.
Yeah, okay, and we just gotthis hate mail from these people
who are like no, you have togive it a 10 out of 10.
It's your responsibility tohelp them sell as many records.
I'm like no, that has nothingto do with that, has not?

(01:26:39):
That's not what we do, that'snot you know.

Speaker 1 (01:26:43):
It's your responsibility to give your true
opinion and your true review.
That is your responsibility.
It's not your response.
You talked about it earlier.
As fans, we don't have to likeevery single thing that our
favorite bands do we?

(01:27:04):
Don't have to, and it's okay tonot like every single thing
that they do.
Look, you even brought it uptoo the band doesn't like
everything that they've done aswell.
So if they don't likeeverything, then why is it not
okay for you to not likeeverything?

Speaker 2 (01:27:22):
Well, and I think that that's where where it goes
so well for us, because theythey respect us, because we
always tell the truth.
They may not agree witheverything that we say, but
we'll never lie to you.
We will always tell you thetruth and it's just our truth.
You know, either we likesomething or we don't, so they
don't have a problem with that.
There's so many people whothink we shill for them and that

(01:27:44):
they pay us and all that, ohyeah, oh yeah, wait a minute.
There's no truth to it and, likeI said, if they didn't like us,
they wouldn't be nice to us.

Speaker 1 (01:27:54):
So wait a second, you're not collecting checks
from.

Speaker 2 (01:27:57):
Paul and Gene.
Come on.

Speaker 1 (01:27:58):
I thought that's what's been going on this whole
time.

Speaker 2 (01:28:01):
I'm surprised Gene doesn't charge us.

Speaker 1 (01:28:04):
Charge you to mention his name or something like that
.
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:28:08):
And they respect honesty.
Yeah, and they respect honesty.
Yeah, because I think at firstthey were a little concerned
when we first started, thinkingthat it was going to be a TMZ
thing, which was never ourintention, and in my 12 years of
doing this, I can't think ofone guest we ever had on, not
one that was ever showed malicetowards the band.

(01:28:30):
We don't want dirt, we don'twant ex-girlfriends or ex-wives,
we want to talk and celebratethe band and the music and the
because the funny thing is isthat the three sides thing is
less a kiss podcast, in myopinion, and more about us
growing up in the 70s and 80s.
It's more of a that to me thanit is actually, because we talk

(01:28:53):
about other other stuff, as youknow as well other bands, music
and all that, but but it allcomes right back.
Yeah, yeah, you know, it's likeall roads lead to kiss yeah, we
have so many friends that thatthat's exactly what it is, and
we talk about that and it's like, you know, like michael from
hairball, we're like well, youknow, pretty much almost every

(01:29:14):
answer to life is containedbetween the debut album and
creatures, and if you can't getanswers to whatever your
problems are in those that groupof records, you just don't get
it.
You know, because there's somuch that can be learned from
what they did and it's all justfun, that's all it is.
And and we've been very blessedand, like I said, I can't I

(01:29:36):
can't even express to you howkind they have been to us and
they don't get anything.
They don't.
We're just normal, regularpeople, that's all it is, you
know.

Speaker 1 (01:29:53):
Well, it you know, um , like you were saying, it's
you're not always just talkingabout the music very similar to
you know what I'm doing here.
We talked about it umpreviously.
It's just telling stories andof course, they're all

(01:30:18):
KISS-based stories.
Most of them are KISS-basedstories you know, but it's just
telling stories, and I've saidit a lot of times and I'll
continue to say it as long as Ido this podcast people like to
hear stories.
Yeah, absolutely, and so I tryto share as long as I do this
podcast people like to hearstories?

Speaker 2 (01:30:34):
Yeah, absolutely, and so I try to share as much as I
can.
But I'm careful to sharecertain things, because then I
start getting attacked forbragging about something when in
reality that's not what I'mdoing.
I'm just trying to take theaudience along with me on some
of these experiences.
You know, I remember and I'lltell everybody this I was
sitting backstage.

(01:30:54):
God knows who knows where itwas, maybe Louisville, kentucky,
it doesn't matter but I wassitting on a road case with Dr
Mark and we're just sittingbackstage which we do all the
time and they go walking pastand I look at Mark, I'm like
where the hell are they going?
The stage is the other way.
And sure as shit, three minuteslater here they come walking

(01:31:16):
back again because someone tookthem the wrong way.
So people were passing by.
I'm like hello Cleveland.
And he's like, yeah, well, thatshit actually happens, you know
, and I'd like to just share itbecause it's it's one of those
things that most people don'tever get to do no, they.

Speaker 1 (01:31:38):
They don't get to see that.
You bragger, tommy, but um yeah, you know uh it's bizarre.

Speaker 2 (01:31:45):
I mean, we used to go out on tour and mark and I were
the only two back there.

Speaker 1 (01:31:49):
literally I admire you guys for what you have been
able to do and just thefriendships that you've been
able to create within that KISSfamily and, of course, it's gone
way beyond that as well.
Oh gosh.

Speaker 2 (01:32:05):
Yes, yeah, I'm flying down to Atlanta next week to
celebrate a 60th birthday of afriend of mine, him and his wife
, and her his wife is throwingthis party, and it was because I
met them the same way I met you.
We're friends because they'reKISS fans.
That's where I am going.

Speaker 1 (01:32:26):
Well, you know, again , for my audience, I'll, I'll
share this.
I I mentioned it briefly andthen, and then you've been so
generous with your time, tommy,I'm going to let you go, but, um
, we did meet at the KISS show,uh, in Las Vegas, um, uh, when
KISS was doing their residencyin 2014.

(01:32:46):
And I bought tickets to go tothe show there.
I flew there by myself, and youand Michael were doing a kind
of a three sides meet and greettype of thing, or a hang at Kiss
Monster Mini Golf, right acrossthe street from the hotel.

(01:33:06):
Yep, christine and I went overand, just well, I met you and
Michael the night before walkingout of the theater, walking out
of the whatever they called thetheater at the time.
I think it was the joint,wasn't it?
I think so.

Speaker 2 (01:33:22):
Yeah, it was the old.
It's the old hard rock.

Speaker 1 (01:33:24):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
So that's when I had met youguys and you're like hey, you're
going to come tomorrow.
Yeah, I'm going to see you guystomorrow, okay, great.
So we hung out.
You had your video camera outthere, you were talking to the
fans of the podcast and doingall kinds of stuff, and Izzy was
there and I mean I still have awhole slew of photos that we

(01:33:49):
took together.
And then afterwards and Ialways tell you I use this line
a lot with you, tommy I say Idon't want to be that guy, but
you're not that guy.
When everything was done andover with, yeah, but you'd only
known me for a few hours at thatpoint.

Speaker 2 (01:34:03):
You can tell.

Speaker 1 (01:34:04):
And when everything was done and over with, you were
like, hey, we're going to goinside and play some putt-putt
golf.
You, we're going to go insideand play some putt-putt golf.
You want to come?
I'm like, okay, sure, and itwas you and Michael and Izzy and
myself who played putt-puttgolf inside Monster Mini Golf.
We just had a great time.
I remember that For my audience.

(01:34:26):
Look, that's the kind of guythat Tommy Summers is.
That's just the kind of guythat he is.
He's very generous, generousand he's very genuine as well.

Speaker 2 (01:34:37):
Well, thank you.
That's very kind of you to say,and I would say the same thing
about you.
And it was great, because it'slike that's the other piece that
I think a lot of people don'tunderstand is it's hard to
quantify certain things and I'veseen some really weird shit
happen at these festivals andbackstage and when you meet
people who are genuinely kind,people like you, you're

(01:35:00):
immediately comfortable.
You felt like an old friendright away because you handled
yourself with grace and you werejust kind and fun to be around.
And I'm like well, you know,and we knew you were alone.
So I'm like well, let's haveBen play golf with us.
It was fun.
We had a great afternoon.
It was a lot of fun.
We had a lot of laughs.

Speaker 1 (01:35:19):
Just like we'd known each other for years, we were
cracking up that whole time andwe were trying to take pictures
inside the joint and all youcould see was our teeth, because
it was all the fluorescentlighting in there or the, you
know, the neon lighting in there, and, and every time, every
picture is just nothing butteeth in there.
And it was, it was, it was, itwas a good time.

(01:35:43):
I still have the.

Speaker 2 (01:35:43):
I still have the scorecard from from that was fun
.
And and also to a monster minigolf in Vegas is in the Rio and
Patrick run it and they're justthe salt of the earth.
So if you are even a curiousKISS fan, not only is there a
shitload of memorabilia there,but it's a lot of fun to play
the Monster Golf.
It's an 18-hole Monster Golf inneon.

(01:36:04):
It's just a lot of fun.
Go visit them if you can.
You won't regret it.

Speaker 1 (01:36:10):
It's a great time, and if anybody's getting married
, I do, are they.
Is Gene Simmons still marryingpeople there?

Speaker 2 (01:36:18):
Probably.
Yeah, I would think so.
Um, I know the chapel stillexists and I'm sure they use it.
I just haven't seen any photoslately, but that doesn't mean
that it's not happening.
I haven't.

Speaker 1 (01:36:26):
I haven't either, but but yeah, it's, uh, yeah, good,
good stuff and but yeah, it'sgood stuff.
And look, I said it before,I'll always say it Tommy is just
a wonderful guy.
He really truly is.
Unfortunately, he's three hoursthis way and we don't get to
see.
This is the first time we'veseen each Gosh.
I think this is the first timewe've actually seen each other

(01:36:48):
since the Kiss Expo in LA.

Speaker 2 (01:36:52):
Yeah, I would say that's probably the last time I
physically saw you.
Yeah, and that was 2018, maybe17,.
Okay, yeah, yeah, that was afun-.
That's bananas, tommy, I know,but that's how fast life goes.
But we speak on the phone, wedo.

Speaker 1 (01:37:06):
we talk on the phone, we text.
You know I try to alwaysremember your birthday when I
can.

Speaker 2 (01:37:15):
And I'm horrible with that.
So that's why I'll just sayhappy Thanksgiving.

Speaker 1 (01:37:18):
Yeah, yeah, there you go.
I remember you know listen umall right Socials.
Where can people find youbesides your podcasts?

Speaker 2 (01:37:27):
Oh, you can find me on.
Mostly I spend most of my timeon Instagram and Facebook, tommy
Summers, s-o-m-m-e-r-s.
Please follow me.
I would love it and check inand I'd love to chat with you.
And, as far as the real estatestuff goes, I do a lot of
blogging.
So for any of you that maybeare in California or wherever

(01:37:50):
you are in the world, especiallyin this country, at least In
this country if you're everstuck and you need we have
questions, just look up myYouTube page Realtor, tom
Summers, realtor, and there's aton of stuff there content for
you for free that will help you.
They'll answer quick questions.
And then I also offer a serviceto people that if you, let's

(01:38:12):
say, you're in West Virginia andyou don't have a real estate
agent but you need one and youwant to buy or sell a house, I
will do the research for youfree of charge and help you find
an agent.
So what?
I'm telling you people that youdon't end up getting and don't
get me wrong, we've got a lot ofwonderful people in my business
, but there's a lot of peoplethat are not very good.
It's that old 80 20 rule andright, I just think.

(01:38:34):
I think, when you're you'redealing with the largest asset
most people have in their lives,you can't you can't hire
someone who is nonchalant aboutit.
You have to hire people whoreally care to take care of you.

Speaker 1 (01:38:48):
Yeah, so and and last thing, tommy is like a master
photographer and and if you, ifyou follow Tommy on Facebook or
Instagram, he's constantlytaking photos at shows and and
it you know it'll take them afew days after the show to go

(01:39:09):
through them and edit and thattype of thing.
But man, the stuff that he'sputting out, look people, it's
just it's top notch.

Speaker 2 (01:39:18):
That's very nice of you to say, and it's a work in
progress.
I'm getting better.
I was really shitty when Ifirst started.
I was really bad, but thanks topeople like Kiss and Hairball
and these other bands who let mecome and photograph because
that's being a photographer atfestivals and going on tour and

(01:39:38):
shooting all those Kiss showsand that really that taught me
so much.
And also, too, I can't I can'tdo it without saying a huge
thank you to my friend, kyleHansansen.
Kyle is a brilliantphotographer, so look up rkh
images.
Kyle's amazing too.
He really is.
He's taught me oh so much.

(01:39:58):
And now we teach each otherstuff.

Speaker 1 (01:40:00):
He's the one that I do all this stupid shit with
yeah, insurers and things likethat yeah, yeah, and he still,
and he still thinks that this,the track listing on the back of
Love Gun, is a male appendage.
No, that's Will.
Oh, that's Will.
Okay.
Yeah, that's right.

Speaker 2 (01:40:16):
That's one of my biggest regrets in my life is
that I took him backstage tomeet them and that wasn't the
regret.
The regret was he got into itwith Gene and they had like a
five-minute conversation and hewas arguing with Gene that the
way the songs are on the back ofthe love gun album looks like a
dick.
Yeah, and he, he made some andhad him cut out in the shape of

(01:40:39):
it.
He's like showing him the geneand jane's like no, I don't
think.
And he was like take picturesand I did.
But what I realized after thewhole thing was that it was it
was comedy gold and I missed allof it.
I should have been videotapingit.
Yeah, exactly, because evenafter the whole thing he walks

(01:41:00):
away and Paul heard the wholething and Paul's like did you
bring him here?
Like I sure did.
And I said specifically to talkto Gene about this.
He's like that's funny.
Yeah, because anytime he canget a dig in, he's all for it.

Speaker 1 (01:41:15):
Well, look, we were.
You know, this album right hereturned 50 the other day and we
were talking about it and wespent more time talking about
everything else, but it's stilla great album.
We still love it and we did getin our stuff regarding Dressed
to Kill.
So it's in there somewhere,people.
But there was a lot of goodconversation here that I hope

(01:41:38):
you stick around from beginningto end.
And, tommy, I just honestly Iknow you're a very, very busy
guy, so for you to be able tocarve out I think we're coming
up on 145 right now so for youto be able to carve out I don't
know, I think we're coming up on145 right now so for you to be
able to carve out this amount oftime for me, I so appreciate it
.
I cannot say thank you enough.

Speaker 2 (01:41:59):
I'm happy to do it.
I told you.
Anytime you need me, I'm alwayshere to help you, if I can.

Speaker 1 (01:42:04):
Well, you're gonna be without some co-hosts in a week
or two, so if you need somebodyto you know, fill a chair.

Speaker 2 (01:42:11):
What's going on in a couple of weeks?
Are they both going somewhere,mark's?

Speaker 1 (01:42:14):
out of town, michael's out of town, lisa's
out of town.

Speaker 2 (01:42:18):
Oh, so we can actually make a good one, we can
make a good episode with them.

Speaker 1 (01:42:21):
Exactly, exactly.
Come on, remind me.

Speaker 2 (01:42:24):
That would be fun.
We could do that, yeah.
Maybe get Izzy Presley on too.

Speaker 1 (01:42:29):
Oh, izzy probably wouldn't even remember me, but
whatever, I don't care itdoesn't matter, he's
self-deprecating.

Speaker 2 (01:42:34):
You just put a quarter in him and let him go.
Yeah, he's great.
Yeah, I've never met anybodythat could go into D.
He should write a book abouthow to be in the friend zone
with every woman he meets.
Oh geez.

Speaker 1 (01:42:47):
Well, when you make videotapes of eating steaks in a
restaurant and potatoes, youknow, come on.

Speaker 2 (01:42:52):
Andy Andy Biersack of Blackfield brides.
He's like I watch every episode.
He's like it's so disturbing Ican't look away.
Yep, that's our Izzy.
Yeah, because, izzy Presley, IZ Z Y Presley, I was in, you
know, elvis ZZY Presley, as inElvis, he's really freaking

(01:43:12):
funny.
He is self-deprecating andcheck him out on socials.

Speaker 1 (01:43:22):
And he does like.
I mean he's like on everyMonsters of Rock cruise and all
these other events and stuff,and he does karaoke, dj, he does
some stand-up, I believe, andhe's I mean yeah he's a funny
guy.

Speaker 2 (01:43:31):
Check him out.
He's a good dude and he'sreally funny.

Speaker 1 (01:43:34):
He's and and very, very knowledgeable, very much so
.

Speaker 2 (01:43:38):
Yes, yeah, it doesn't come off that way but he is,
that's his, that's his kind ofhis.
I think that's his thing yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:43:45):
Yeah, but anyways, again, tommy, this is, this has
actually been a blast.
It really truly is.
And it's kind of like when weget on the phone and we talk we
will go for an hour, hour and ahalf, and so this is even better
because everybody gets to seeit too.

Speaker 2 (01:44:01):
So yeah, well, hopefully people enjoy it.
That's all I can say.

Speaker 1 (01:44:03):
Well, I certainly hope so.
I'm going to close up shop, buthang out with me.
Okay, hang out with me for acouple minutes, all right?
So, everybody, that's a wrap.
Again, as you know, thisprogram is available wherever
you get your podcast.
Just search the Ben MaynardProgram.
It's right there, Bam, go withit.

(01:44:24):
If you've enjoyed this becauseof this guy right here, and not
so much this guy here, then,yeah, I know what's happening.
Then, thanks for watching onYouTube, but you have to
subscribe to the channel.
Okay, please subscribe to thechannel, give me a thumbs up and
leave a comment, all right.
Last but not least, follow meon Instagram.

(01:44:45):
And even better than followingme on Instagram, which is Ben
Maynard Program, you know whatFollow me on Facebook instead,
because I spend more time onFacebook.
I don't even go.
Catherine runs Instagram andwhatever, so it's easier on
Facebook.
So hit me up on Facebook, okay.
So there you go, all right.

(01:45:07):
Thanks for tuning in.
Thanks for being here.
As always, this is the BenMaynard Program.
Tell a friend.

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