EP. 92 MOONSHINE OVER GEORGIA: The Hidden Story Behind America's Deadly Addiction. A Conversation with Chris Skates

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:08):
Hey there, everyone.
Welcome into the Ben Maynardprogram.
Thanks for being here.
Before we get started, a littlebit of housekeeping to take
care of.
As you know, this program isavailable wherever you get your
podcasts.
It's on all the streamingplatforms.
All you need to do is searchthe Ben Maynard program Boom,
it's on all the streamingplatforms.
All you need to do is searchthe Ben Maynard program Boom,
it's right there and go with it.

(00:29):
But if you do that, then pleasegive me a five-star rating or
something.
Okay, come on, help me out here.
Subscribe to it.
That way, anytime a new episodedrops, you get notification.
It's that simple.
All right, but if you arewatching on YouTube and you
can't resist a little bit ofthis right here, then please

(00:52):
also subscribe to the channel,give me a thumbs up and leave a
comment.
You know I love your commentsand I reply to all of them.
Oh, and then you have to tell10,000 of your family and
friends too.
Okay, you got to help me out.
I'm serious and I'm still onthat 500 subscriber campaign.
500 subscribers is such a smallnumber.

(01:13):
All right, help me out here.
Last but not least, follow meon Instagram.
Ben Maynard program.
All one word, or as I roll myeyes and I can't believe I'm
saying this, or you can followme on TikTok.
Okay, it's the Ben Maynardprogram, all right, and I am

(01:36):
actually getting more traffic onmy TikTok account than anything
else, but still help me out,tell 10,000 of your family and
friends and let's get thosesubscribers up, all right.
So plenty of ways to take inthis show for your dancing and
listening pleasure, and withoutdelay.

(01:56):
This is going to be a good one.
I've got a really special guesttoday and I'm just going to
bring the guest on right now andintroduce them.
This guest is here to talkabout their new book, but so so

(02:19):
much more than an author.
More than an author and you'llfind out in just a minute and it
pleases me to bring on to theBen Maynard program Chris Skates
.
Yes, as in like ice skates.
All right, chris, thanks a lotfor being here.

Speaker 2 (02:36):
Chris, thank you for having me, and I've used that
ice skates metaphor like 3million times so far in my life.

Speaker 1 (02:43):
Only three million.
So, as I mentioned, you'vewritten five books, but you're
so much more than an author.
You have such a fascinatingstory and I really want so much

(03:08):
to hear about it.
I want you to tell the audienceabout it.
But before we get into thatwhole story, you are here to
pitch your latest book, and thatis Moonshine Over Georgia,
right?

Speaker 2 (03:18):
That's right, I'm going to show it.
I couldn't get mirroring off ofmy camera, so it's going to
look backwards.

Speaker 1 (03:24):
No, no, no, it's good .

Speaker 2 (03:25):
Okay, good.

Speaker 1 (03:26):
Yeah, because I have it switched on mine, so
everybody sees it like it is.

Speaker 2 (03:30):
So I want your audience to take a good look at
the artwork.
You see the old barn and thecar headlights and the moon, and
we'll talk about why that'ssignificant here in a minute.
But yeah, that is the story ofmy grandfather and his real life
career as a revenue agent.
So after prohibition ended andI think 32 or 34, moonshining

(03:54):
became a tax violation becausethese guys were making liquor
without paying the liquor tax.
You know, you may have heardabout legal liquor or bourbon or
something being bonded.
So you have to be bonded andthat's how you pay the
government fees to make theliquor.
So my grandfather actuallyworked for the revenue service.

(04:15):
Everybody hates the tax man andthat's what a lot of the
moonshiners called him tax man.
But he was driven to stamp outmoonshine in his community
because moonshine even afterprohibition, moonshine
consumption actually went upafter prohibition all the way
into the 50s, about 55.

(04:36):
Um, and there's a number ofreasons for that.
But he saw what moonshine wasdoing to his community.
He saw rampant alcoholism.
And do you mind if I just tellyou how?
What motivated me to write thisbook?
When I was a 12 year old, ofcourse of course yeah.

Speaker 1 (04:54):
You know, let me, let me let me stop you before you
get into that, though you knowit's weird For me that just the,
the, the.
You know dummy that I am.
When I hear moonshine, I alwaysthink it makes you think of, I
don't know, the Dukes of Hazzard, and the guys are playing

(05:14):
moonshine and they're trying toget away from Roscoe P Coltrane
and it's all fun and games.
But I've heard you talk aboutthis in the past and it's no fun
and games.
But I've heard you talk aboutthis in the past and it's no
joke at all.

Speaker 2 (05:29):
Yeah, and that that's this story will will highlight
that.
But you're right, moonshine wasthe drug of choice in the
United States for about 15 or 20years, wow.
And the price went up and upand up exponentially in the 40s.
And as the money got higher,their organized crime got

(05:50):
involved because they saw moneymaking opportunity and so as the
money went up, the violencewent up linearly.
So this backstory highlightsexactly what you're asking.
I was about 12, 11 or 12, and Ispent all the time I could with
my grandfather.
We were very close.
I've never been, as even my owndad.
We were close.

(06:11):
But I had a more bondedrelationship even with my
grandfather, because we hadeverything in common.
We liked all the same hobbies,so I was at his house for the
summer and we would go fishingin the morning and then work in
his massive garden that he fedthe whole family out of, and
then my grandfather would make abig southern lunch and then

(06:32):
we'd watch the andy griffithshow.
So we're watching andy griffithand a character comes on named
rafe hollister, who was a minorcharacter in the show I think he
was on about five episodes, buthe was the mayberry area
moonshiner and in this, in thisepisode, otis was trying to buy
some moonshine and it was just abig comedy thing.
And I noticed my grandfatherfidgeting in his chair and he
became more and more agitatedand he finally he just this was

(06:55):
back before remotes.
He just slapped the button offon the TV and turned the show
off and I said, pop, what'swrong?
We aren't going to finish theshow.
And he said, pop, what's wrong?

(07:20):
We aren't going to finish theshow.
And he said it wasn't like thatboy, there was nothing funny
about the moonshine business.
He said you don't even knowwhat poverty is compared to what
people lived in back.
Then you take him to some littleshack and his little children
will be running right out of theyard at midnight crying because
they hadn't eaten all day andtheir bellies are distended from
hunger.
And daddy just spent all themoney for groceries on a gallon
of moonshine and now he's sickand can't work this week.

(07:43):
He said those little childrenwould grab my leg and wail and
cry and he started justrepeating over and over and I
couldn't help them all.
I couldn't help them all andthen he just started sobbing and
he and my grandmother had beenmarried 60 something years at
that time and they bickeredconstantly.
But she came over then and tookhis both his hands and pulled

(08:04):
up an ottoman and just sat withhim and let him cry wow.
And it really resonated with me, even as a little boy.
I wasn't a writer for another20 something years, but I knew
in my subconscious one day Iwould tell this story wow,
that's just.

Speaker 1 (08:20):
You know, as you're, as you're describing that I'm
visualizing this as a movie orminiseries.
And it starts out with grandpaand his grandson doing exactly
what you were doing, and thengrandpa says boy, it wasn't like

(08:42):
that at all.
And then man says, boy, itwasn't like that at all.
And then man and it, and thenand then steam, and it goes
right back to that time and thestory story begins.
Hat, have you been approachedor have you approached anybody
about writing a screenplay oranything like that?

Speaker 2 (08:59):
It would make a wonderful show and it's funny
you say that I've sold a fewthousand books and I have had so
many people that will find thebook.
I'm not hard to find onFacebook or Twitter.
They'll find me on social media.
I have had a couple hundredmessages of people saying this
should be a movie.
I agree, I'm not in the moviebusiness.

(09:20):
I've pitched it where I can,but I don't really have
connections.
I'm glad I'm on with youbecause I know you're in
California.
Maybe one of the Hollywood guyswill hear this, but yeah, yeah,
yeah, yeah, maybe one of thoseHollywood types, sure.
Yeah, and you know I've got anaudio book and I hired an actor
to play my grandfather.
Gary Barboza just knocked itout of the park and that even

(09:44):
enhances the movie potentialeven more because he's a
professional actor reading theseparts and, yeah, it'd make a
great movie.

Speaker 1 (09:51):
I hope it happens someday man, it just, it sounds,
it just sounds.
Complete opposite.
I'm of what most people'sperception of moonshining is all
about.

Speaker 2 (10:07):
Yeah, I will tell you two celebrities that have the
book.
Just crazy coincidences.
It would take me too long totell you the whole backstory,
but Jeff Foxworthy has it Okayand Tucker Carlson has it.
Not shocking Whether or noteither one of them.
I know Tucker Carlson had notread it the last time I got word
, which was about six months ago, but he's a busy man, so

(10:32):
hopefully he'll get to itsomeday.

Speaker 1 (10:34):
Yeah, man, it just that sounds absolutely, it
sounds amazing, and it sounds sovery dark.
There is a darkness to it,you're right, man.
So, uh, before we get into therest of the book, so the book is
available where?

Speaker 2 (10:51):
on Amazon, yeah, Amazon and paperback, audio and
Kindle, and then also peoplethat get their audio books on
Spotify it's on Spotify as wellso you've got about four options
to get it, okay.

Speaker 1 (11:05):
So, people, we're going to get back into this book
, in in in a little bit.
Um, go out, go get the book.
I I'm I'm actually waiting formine, chris.
Chris put it in the mail for me, sent it to me, and I was
hoping to have it before today.
But I told Chris to make surehe had the books readily
available so he could hold themup to the camera and you could

(11:26):
all get a good look at them.
But before we get back to thebook, can we go back to the
beginning?
This is where I find Chris'sstory to be absolutely
fascinating, folks.
As I said, he's written fivebooks, but that's not where it

(11:49):
begins.
That's kind of not his forte.
You heard him say, you know,when he was 12, he didn't start
writing for another 20-somethingyears.
Chris is a chemist, chris is anuclear chemist, and that's kind
of what I find to be even morefascinating.
Because, well, I'm going to letChris talk about that.

(12:10):
Chris, can we just come on?
Let's go back to the beginning,please, okay.

Speaker 2 (12:16):
So I had a high school English teacher really a
middle school English teacherwas the first one that gave me
the writing book.
She gave us a great assignment.
Every Friday she would put aNorman Rockwell painting in
front of the class and she'd sayby Wednesday I want an 800 word
short story about what you seein this painting.

(12:36):
It was a wonderful writingexercise.
Most of the kids hated it.
Most of the kids half-assed it.
No-transcript.

(13:10):
I blew it off, but at the sametime I'm 62 years old and I'm
talking to you about it, so itresonated with me.
Then I had a couple of collegeprofessors try to get me to
major in creative writing andliterature and I was afraid I
wouldn't be able to.
I was afraid I would end upwith a job at a small town
newspaper making $10,000 a year.
So I thought I was strictlylooking for a way to get a good

(13:34):
job and I was like well, nobodywants to major in chemistry,
I'll major in chemistry.
So I did that it wasn't at all acalling or anything, but I was
like I know I'll be able to geta job and it worked great.
I was a chemist for 30 yearsand then I went into writing and
politics and we'll get to thatin a minute and then I went now

(14:00):
I'm back into the sort of thechemical industry, but the
writing really took off for meEven as I was a chemist.
I was keeping a journal and Iwould occasionally write a short
story and not show it toanybody.
And then my grandfather, thesame one that I was watching
Andy Griffith with, passed awayin 1995.
And to sort of deal with mygrief, I thought I'm just going
to write a story about us and Iwrote a story called First and

(14:22):
Last, about him taking mehunting my first time when I was
a little boy and me taking himhunting his last time when he
was 93.
That's great, and I didn't knowhow to.
I first printed it on about 30or 40 little typewritten papers
that I gave out at my familyreunion and the whole family

(14:46):
just had a fit over it.
When they got home and read itthey were like you've got to try
to get this published.
I had never really seriouslyconsidered trying to get
anything published.
So then I began to try toresearch.
Well, how do you get somethingpublished?
This was in 2000 by the time Istarted, or 99 when I started
submitting it, and back then theinternet wasn't near what it is
now.

Speaker 1 (15:06):
Still still fairly new.

Speaker 2 (15:08):
Yeah.
So you submitted everything viahard copy and I was blessed to
meet another chemist fromColorado.
We went to a better.
I was in this association ofpower plant chemists and he was
in it too, but he published afly fishing articles, so he
started.
He started in it too, but hepublished fly fishing articles,
so he started.
He started mentoring me on howto get published.

(15:29):
Okay, and what?
The only piece of advice heever gave me that was turned out
to be incorrect was, he saidgrow a thick skin, because your
story is going to get rejectedby a hundred editors before you
finally get accepted.
Instead of that happening, thefirst magazine I submitted it to
bought it published.
It didn't just publish, it madeit their feature article in

(15:50):
their 30th anniversary issue.
The name of the magazine isTurkey Call, which may not sound
like a big deal to youraudience, but it's got half a
million subscribers and it was abig audience for me for my
first story and I've got theartwork hanging on my wall right
now.
They did some beautiful artworkwith it.
It was a bifold article.

Speaker 1 (16:09):
No matter what, wait, hold on, hold on, no matter
what.
Getting something publishedthat's going to be in the faces
of half a million people, that'shuge, that is huge.

Speaker 2 (16:23):
Half a million people , that's, that's huge, that is
huge.
They sent me 10 copies of themagazine with that artwork and a
$200 check.
And I was standing at mymailbox and I opened up the
package that had the magazines.
And when I opened it up and sawthat artwork, my life was
changed.
It was just the hair stood upon the back of my neck.

(16:43):
It said first and last by ChrisGates, and I was just blown
away.
So then I said, well, I'm goingto keep trying to do this,
let's see if I can do it again.
So I wrote another articleended up.
I was like, hey, go with what,brung you.
So I submitted it to the samemagazine.
They published the secondarticle I wrote.

(17:04):
So now in my mind I'm like, hey, I'm Ernest Hemingway, I'm a
natural, I can't miss, you know.
And that third article was theone that got rejected a bunch of
times and finally got acceptedlater by a different publication
.
And then I just started fishing.
I just was.
I wanted to see what I could do.
So I started, started.

(17:25):
I said, well, I've beenpublished in a hunting magazine,
let me try other magazines.
And so I published some shortstories and some other genres.
And then I was like, let me seeif I can publish a technical
paper in some of the tradejournals for chemistry.
And I did that.
And then in 2005, I wascarpooling to, I was working at
a power plant as a chemist andby then I had stories published.

(17:49):
And I said to my carpool buddyI was like you know what?
I just read John Grisham's thePelican Brief.
I think I could do that, Ithink I could write a book.
And he said something thatactually was very motivational.
He said well, don't talk aboutit, do it.

(18:10):
So I started trying to writeMoonshine Over Georgia and I
could not figure out how towrite a book.
I couldn't get past the firstpage, which, interestingly
enough, after I wrote that firstpage, I stuck it in a file
folder in my little file cabinethere and it's still the first
page of the book today.
I got it back out almost 15years later and still use it.
Pretty good first page.
But I just couldn't getanywhere and I kept getting

(18:33):
writer's block.
So I gave up for a period oftime and I started praying I'm a
personal faith and I was likeLord, what story do you want me
to tell?
So the journey continues.
I'm getting more huntingarticles published.
So I got asked to speak at achurch about the churches got
real into doing these wild gamesuppers for men and it would get

(18:56):
a lot of men to come to churchthat didn't normally come.
So I was because I had somehunting articles published.
They asked me to be the speaker.
So I spoke at this dinner andthere was a friend there.
We already knew each other andhe said hey, I love your stories
that you're writing.
And he said I've got an ideafor a book.
And he said I'm not a writer,I'm never going to write it.
All I've ever written is thefirst sentence.

(19:16):
And I folded it up like afortune cookie and it sent my
wallet.
He said would you look at it andsee if you think it could be a
book?
He said would you look at itand see if you think it could be
a book?
Okay, and I said okay, what'sthe premise?
And he said Noah's Ark Only.
Everything you see about Noahis a little children's pop-up
book and Noah's got his armaround a giraffe and they're
singing happy songs.

(19:36):
They're on a fun little boatride.
He said but that can't be theway it was.
If it really happened, happenedin history.
It was literally the mostterrifying event in human
history.
And he said so I think itshould be a book aimed at the an
adult audience.
And I said, okay, let me, yougot my attention, let me see the
sentence.
So he takes out his littlepiece of paper and he opens it

(19:57):
up and the sentence was wecovered our ears to block out
the screens, covered our ears toblock out the screams, and I
instantly said I'm going towrite your book.
Wow, so that became this.

Speaker 1 (20:16):
The Rain A story of knowing the art.

Speaker 2 (20:18):
You see the art there on the back cover.
Yeah, that was the perfect bookfor me to start out with,
because I had parameters.
You know how, when you'relittle or a kid bowls and they
put those bumper pads in.

Speaker 1 (20:29):
No, come on, Chris, you okay.
You said you're 62.
I'm, I'll be 60 in August.
We didn't have bumpers and padsand all that stuff.
Come on, we were real bowlerswhen we were eight, nine years
old.

Speaker 2 (20:41):
Well, you do a little kid party.
Now they'll put theseinflatable things in the gutter.
So the kids don't getdiscouraged, because if you hold
every ball it will go in thegutter.
Well, noah's art story gave mebumper pads.
It gave me structure.
I knew how the story was goingto begin and end and that game
kept me in the alley for thestory and it was a perfect

(21:04):
training ground for me to knowhow to structure a book.
Okay, uh, the book gotpublished.
We actually self-published thatone, uh.
But I did win a, an award fromthe christian writers
association best fiction of theyear in 2005 for that book wow
sold it sold it in 15 countries,got postcards from around the

(21:24):
world One of my favoritepostcards of all time.
I've got it somewhere here in myfile cabinet.
It was from Saudi Arabia.
I didn't realize that Noah wasalso a hero in the Muslim faith.
Okay, and a Muslim man.
It was a Muslim name on thecard and it just said your book
helped me be a better man.
That was the whole card and Iwas like that's why you do it.

(21:47):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
So time went on and I made theother guy the co-author because
it was his concept and he helpedme with a lot of research.
He was a bibliophile and he hada lot of research on Noah, so
he provided me that.
So he had enough research thatwe did a sequel and that's this
book the tower about the towerof Babel, because we learned

(22:11):
that Noah was still alive whenthey built the tower of Babel.
As grandson rebelled again andwe were like man, what would be
going through Noah's mind?
He'd already seen the greatflood and now his grandson's
going rogue and building thetower of babel.
So the tower was my second bookand then, uh, over time I
wanted to write.
I just wanted to go somewhereelse.

(22:33):
Writing biblical fiction does alot of work.
You're trying not to violatethe bible and you're so research
oriented.
I wanted some freedom to justwrite something that you ever
heard the phrase write what youknow, yeah, so what I knew was
power plants and environmentalcompliance and the EPA and how
hard the EPA made it on powerplants.

(22:55):
So the next book I wrote wasthis one that I'm about to
re-release.
It was called Going Greensubtitle.
For some.
It has nothing to do with theenvironment.
It was called Going Greensubtitle.
For some.
It has nothing to do with theenvironment.
Not a good title for marketing,because everybody thought it
was a lesson book on how to gogreen.
They didn't get the sarcasm butit did.
Okay, that book.

(23:17):
This is where it gets reallyinteresting, ben.
That book got me invited ontothe Rush Limbaugh program.
If you're on Rush Limbaugh as awriter when he was at his peak
and he was at his this wouldhave been 2010.
You were on Rush Limbaugh onMonday.
You were on the New York Timesbestseller list on Tuesday.

Speaker 1 (23:36):
That's how powerful his audience reach was.

Speaker 2 (23:38):
Right, right.
But my pub, my life, took aturn right there.
My publisher went bankrupt.
I didn't self-publish goinggreen, I had a publisher, yeah.
So my books ended up in alawsuit, all their books, not
just mine.
So the books were locked up ina warehouse in Boca Raton,

(24:01):
florida.
So I had to let the Limbaughpeople know, and so I let them
know that, hey, my book didn'tget distributed to the
bookstores.
I just want to let you knowthat.
And they said well, we got tocancel you.
We can't have a guest on who'swritten a book and our audience
can't even go get the book Again.
This was the Internet andAmazon Books wasn't even a thing

(24:22):
yet, and so I didn't blame them.
There were no hard feelings.
But that ship sailed and peoplesay, well, could you just
contact him again when you gotit all cleared up?
It doesn't work that way.
Getting on Rush Limbaugh is amoonshot.
People say you should get onOprah.
Yeah, I should also grow wingsand fly to Mars.
It's that difficult.

(24:43):
Everybody wants to be on thoseshows, Wow.
But once your window ofopportunity is closed, it's
closed.

Speaker 1 (24:49):
They've moved on.
I kind of know I don't mean tointerrupt, but I kind of know
how that feels, because everyonewants to be on the Ben Maynard
program.
I mean, they're just kickingdown my door, yeah, exactly.

Speaker 2 (24:59):
And you live that life.

Speaker 1 (25:01):
Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2 (25:05):
Now you live that life.
Now I'm depressed.
What am I going to do?
My ship sailed away.
I end up with a gentleman'sagreement settlement with the
publisher.
They just give me the first5,000 copies of the book and
give me my rights back.
Now I got my garage.
5,000 books takes up a lot ofroom.
I could not even get my car inmy garage.

(25:25):
I had so many books.
So now I'm thinking how am Igoing to sell these things and
light bulb?
I said I'm really into politics.
What if I start a politicalcolumn in my local paper and
then I have a little tagline atthe bottom?
Chris Gates, politicalcolumnist, is also the author of
Going Green.
You can buy it from him at thisaddress.

Speaker 1 (25:46):
Oh yeah, and then later.

Speaker 2 (25:48):
I built a website, all this stuff.
Well, here's what I didn'tforesee.
First of all, I can't believe Iconned the local newspaper
editor into letting me do that,but I did.
What I didn't foresee is thepolitical column took on a life
of its own.
I got picked up by a lot of theconservative websites
nationally.

Speaker 1 (26:07):
Oh, wow.

Speaker 2 (26:08):
So now I'm making a little pocket change writing
political columns, but the booksales they weren't really taken
off.
I sell one every once in awhile.
So then while I'm writing apolitical column I go travel to
get things to write columnsabout, at my own expense.
There's nobody's, there's noCalvary here.

(26:28):
So I would go, I would get aMotel 6, get the cheapest flight
I could find and go to thesedifferent political rallies and
carry 20, a box full of booksand walk around in the hotel
selling books.
I did that in Phoenix, arizonaonce and I sold a copy of Going
Green to a guy who I didn't know.
That guy read it, fell in lovewith it, took it back to his

(26:51):
workplace in Washington DC.
He worked at the HeritageFoundation that's a conservative
think tank, probably thebiggest conservative think tank
or most well-respected and heread it and he put a yellow
sticky on it.
All this time I'm still writingpolitical columns, still
selling a few books here andthere.
On the yellow post-it note itsaid this is an incredible book.

(27:13):
You guys need to read it.
The next Heritage Foundationperson that picked it up was a
lady who I just spoke on thephone with yesterday named Becky
Norton Dunlop.
I don't know.
Any of this is happening In themeantime.
Hold that thought for a minute.
We're going to come back toBecky.
All right, I'm looking forsomething to write my next
column about.

(27:33):
And a guy was coming to Paducah,where I live, to run for Senate
against Mitch McConnell.
The guy's name was Matt Bevin.
I was like, man, I've heardabout this guy, I've heard him
on you some.
I really like a lot of whathe's got to say.
I'm going to go to his Paducahrally and try to get an
interview with him.
I did.

(27:54):
His staff was trying to blow meoff because they thought I was a
nobody and I told him.
I said, look, I'm syndicatedand on a lot of conservative
websites.
I said you might want to giveme a little time.
So he told the staff to gostand over there.
I'm going to talk to this man,right?
The staff said, okay, you canhave 15 minutes because we've

(28:14):
got to be somewhere else.
Ben, we ended up talking forthree hours.
Oh man, we just connected on alot of levels.
We ended up exchanging personalcell phone numbers and we just
stayed in touch.
He loses to Mitch McConnell,which was inevitable.
By the way, that was the firsttime in American history, a

(28:35):
sitting Senate Majority Leaderwas challenged in the primary
Wow.
Because nobody takes on theSenate Majority Leader.

Speaker 1 (28:43):
It's like taking on Goliath Right.

Speaker 2 (28:45):
But Bevin had a very respectable showing.
He got like 32% of the vote.

Speaker 1 (28:50):
That's actually not bad, first time out.

Speaker 2 (28:53):
Yeah, so the Senate campaign ends Now.
Don't forget Matt Bevin.
We're coming back to Becky.

Speaker 1 (28:59):
Gotcha.

Speaker 2 (29:01):
Becky calls me.
Never met her before in my life, didn't know who she was, was.
I was smart enough that when Iwould sell a copy of Going Green
I stuck a little author card init with my cell phone number on
it.
So she calls my cell phone oneday I'm on my way home from the
power plant where I work.
She introduces herself.
She says I'm the vice presidentof the Harris Foundation.
I read your book.

(29:21):
My husband read your, your book.
We absolutely love it.
And if you're ever inWashington DC we'd like to take
you to dinner.
And I thanked her profusely.
I said I'm honored to get sucha compliment from you, but I
don't ever go to Washington DCand I doubt I ever will.

(29:41):
And so she said well, if youever are, call me.
All right, matt Bevin calls meabout six months later.
He said, hey, I'm going to runfor governor and he wanted to
know if I would serve on hispre-election transition team,
which was a volunteer position,and I agreed to do it.
So, long story short, in one ofthe real political dark horses
he wins the governor's right, sohe becomes governor of Kentucky

(30:04):
.
Dark horses he wins thegovernor's right, so he becomes
governor of Kentucky.
He knows about my energybackground, he knows about my
writing background.
So he appoints me to wear twohats in the administration
communications advisor andenergy advisor.
So people sometimes ask me isthat like a full-time job?
Yeah, an advisor to a governoris very much a full-time job.

(30:24):
So I leave the power generationbusiness and I go to the
Kentucky State Capitol and myoffice joins the governor's
office.
So it was really exciting,intense four years.
And keep in mind I was anamateur writer and I had a
political column.
But when you're a writer for agovernor and you're helping him
write his officialcorrespondence to senators and

(30:47):
the president of the states andforeign leaders, and you're
writing speeches and you'rewriting proclamations, that is
an intense writer's workshop.
Governor Bevin was anoutstanding writer in his own
right and a real grammarian.
I mean, he knew grammar waybetter than I did.
So you weren't going to slidesomething past him unless you
had literally your I's dottedand your T's crossed.

(31:09):
So that pressure cooker made mea much better writer.
So after I had been withGovernor Bevin about a year and
a half, he sent me to WashingtonDC for the National Governors
Association meeting.

Speaker 1 (31:26):
Now, chris, what year is this, Chris?

Speaker 2 (31:29):
2017, 18.
Okay.

Speaker 1 (31:33):
I'm just trying to put the timeline together,
that's all.

Speaker 2 (31:35):
Yeah, yeah, that's fair.

Speaker 1 (31:37):
So I call.

Speaker 2 (31:38):
I remember Becky Norton Dunlop and I was like
that was years ago when she toldme she would take me to dinner.
She's not going to remember whoI am, but I called her.
I said hey.
You said if I'm ever in DC, I'mgoing to be in DC.
Do you remember me?
And she said I definitelyremember you.
She said where are you going tobe staying?

(32:03):
Association was in a nice hotel.

Speaker 1 (32:07):
Okay.

Speaker 2 (32:07):
Only then do I go back to my hotel room.
I'm in DC now and Google, beckyNorton, dunlop and George
Dunlop I don't think they mindme mentioning their name.
They had both beenundersecretaries for Ronald
Reagan during his administration.
Wow, so I'm like holy smokes.
I'm going out with people fromthe rate and reg is kind of a
hero of mine, heck, yeah.

(32:28):
So we go to dinner and theywere just so gracious and, um,
ask me a lot of questions abouthow I came up with the plot of
my book.
And the plot basically, isenvironmental terrorists are
trying to shut down power plantsso they can weaken the American
electrical grid, and they'redoing it with some foreign

(32:50):
adversaries helping them.
So, becky, we finished dinnerand Becky turns to me and she
said Mr Skates, we spent ourwhole career in Washington
fighting the left.
And she said we've dealt withthe environmental, the presence
of all the environmentalactivist groups up close and
personal, and the plot of yourbook.
You nailed it and it gave mechill bumps because I'm just I

(33:15):
wrote it.
I'm just a little guy working ata power plant spitballing what
I think might be going on.
So, in a way that this bookGoing Green, even though I
wasn't on Rush Limbaugh, ithelped me get a political column
which got me appointed to agovernor's office, which got me
back in touch with Becky NortonDunlop.
And when we talk aboutMoonshine Over Georgia in a

(33:38):
minute, the reason MoonshineOver Georgia got published is
because I got Becky and Georgeto read the manuscript and they
said this may be the best bookwe've ever read, and they
introduced me to people andhelped me get Moonshine River
Georgia published 10 years, 15years later.
So we had lunch in the midabout 2018 and Moonshine River

(34:00):
Georgia got published in 2023.

Speaker 1 (34:03):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (34:04):
All those years later that that came back to me.

Speaker 1 (34:08):
That's absolutely incredible.
That is so, so incredible andjust fascinating.
You know, to your book lands upby chance in in their hands,
you know, and uh, and it leadsto all this stuff.
Can, um, can we talk about?

(34:31):
Excuse me, can we talk a little?
Let me get this cleared up.
Can we talk a little bit aboutyour, um, your time in
Washington DC?
Your time in Washington DC.

Speaker 2 (34:44):
Yeah, so I said that I wore two hats communications
advisor, which was all thewriting we already talked about,
but also energy advisor.
Yes, so Governor Bevin wasappointed as chairman of an
entity called the SouthernStates Energy Board.
Most people don't know aboutthat board, but it was created
by the United States Congress inthe 60s and their charter says

(35:05):
they have to have a sittinggovernor as the chairman.
So Governor Bevin was electedas chairman and he knew about my
energy background, so he wantedme to be sort of a liaison
between him and the SouthernStates Energy Board In that role
and that was right in mywheelhouse, because I've been in
power plants for 30 years.
In that role, I worked with theSecretary of Energy's office in

(35:28):
DC.
So, sadly, governor Bevin ranfor reelection.
Kentucky has an off yearelection, so he ran for
reelection in 2019 and we didnot win.
So I got a job offer from thesecretary's office really soon
after we didn't get reelected.
So I got appointed a seniorenergy advisor for fossil energy

(35:48):
in the Trump administration in2020.
My first day was like January3rd of 2020, right after the New
Year's holiday.
So I go to Washington DC and myfirst day on the job I didn't

(36:14):
even have time Happens all thetime I didn't even have my
office supplies yet, yeah.
But I was at DOE headquarterson the Washington Mall and I was
called to the DeputySecretary's office and I went in
there and he said we hear youwrite good speeches and I said
yeah, and he said the VicePresident needs one in the

(36:36):
morning about energy.
Get busy, get busy.
So I wrote a speech for thevice president of the United
States on my first day inWashington.
That led to I also later wroteactually before that, while I
was still with Governor Bevin.
Governor Bevin had become goodfriends with President Trump.
That's not why I got theDepartment of Energy job.

(36:59):
I kind of did that with my ownsweat equity.
Got the Department of Energyjob.
I kind of did that with my ownsweat equity.
But that's how they heard thatI wrote good speeches.
Governor Bevin had saidsomething to somebody blah, blah
, blah.
So also right before I left theBevin administration, I was on
a conference call with thepresident Secretary, rick Perry,
secretary of Energy and VicePresident Pence and Governor

(37:20):
Bevin and they were wanting toclose a power.
Tva was wanting to close apower plant in Kentucky that
President Trump did not want toclose and he said by the way,
when you're in a meeting withDonald Trump, there's no doubt
who's in charge.
And he said he was calling thegovernor by his first name,
which was freaking me out.
But he said Matt, matt, haveyour boy there, write me a tweet

(37:43):
about this power plant.
I'm going to tweet it out in afew minutes.
So I was the boy.
Yeah yeah.
I wrote a tweet for PresidentTrump Not many people can say
that and then, when I got to DC,I wrote a speech for Vice
President Pence.
They love the speech.
So I get a call a little whilelater, two or three weeks later,

(38:03):
from the White House.
At the time I haven't moved allthe way to DC.
I'm living in an apartment inDC.
My wife's still in Kentucky.
My entire furniture was a lawnchair and an air mattress.
So I'm sitting in a lawn chairin Washington DC eating ramen
noodles.
I'm sitting in a lawn chair inWashington DC eating ramen
noodles.
I'm loving this.
And I get a call from the WhiteHouse and the guy says and this

(38:28):
gentleman is in the Trumpadministration now in a high
position.
I'm not going to say his name,but he said we are writing an
energy speech for the presidentand we wonder if you'd help us.
We saw what you did for VicePresident Pence.
We really liked it and I saidsure, I'd be glad to.

(38:49):
When do you need me to help?
And he said right now.
Oh, no pressure.
Yeah, so I'm on the phone tilllike 1 am, my ramen noodles got
cold, and so a week or two goesby and I get another call from
the White House and they saidthe president liked what you did
.
We want you to come to theWhite House for breakfast.
Can you come on Wednesday?
And I said absolutely.
And that's one great thingabout a political administration

(39:10):
.
If the president or thegovernor says he would like you
to come to breakfast, you don'tgot to ask your boss, the boss
has already said come tobreakfast.

Speaker 1 (39:18):
You automatically have permission.
Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2 (39:22):
So the breakfast was going to be on Wednesday, the
following Wednesday.
They were talking to me on aWednesday.
Yeah, on Friday.
I'm on my way home to back tomy apartment with my air
mattress and my and my lawnchair.
I'm walking down the sidewalkin Washington DC and I black out
and some stranger helped me tomy feet.
I think I was out for about 10or 15 seconds, right right and

(39:47):
uh some stranger helped me up,painted on the sidewalk there.
Yeah, everything went black.
Um, I actually wrote a storyabout this that got published in
daily wire that I'd be happy tosend you a link to.
But I love this, yes.
So I end up going to a seriesof doctors over the next three
or four days.
By Tuesday, the day before Iwas supposed to have breakfast

(40:07):
with the president, I'm told Ihave acute lymphoblastic
leukemia.

Speaker 1 (40:13):
Okay, wait, acute lymphoblastic.
What Lymphoblastic with a, bLymphoblastic leukemia?
Yes that sounds like a partyyeah, and so I was.

Speaker 2 (40:29):
When the guy told me, by the way, my wife had found
out, I passed out and she flewto washington on an emergency
flight and went to the doctorwith me.
When the doctor told me that Iwas totally macho about it,
tough guy, you know, I've beenaround hazardous chemicals my
whole life.
This ain't nothing.
So I said that's okay, I'llbeat it.
I said, listen, I've gotbreakfast at the white house

(40:50):
tomorrow.
I'm going to go do that.
And, uh, you, when I come backThursday, you can tell me
whatever pills I got to take orwhatever.
Yeah, and the doctor physicallygrabbed me by the shoulders and
he said Mr Skates, you're notabsorbing what I'm telling you.
He said there is no medicalexplanation for why you're alive

(41:11):
right now.
Wow, leukemia has wiped outalmost your entire red blood
cells.
The reason you're blacking outis oxygen is not getting to your
brain because there's novehicle to carry it.
He said there will be nobreakfast at the White House.
You're not starting chemo afteryour breakfast, you're starting

(41:32):
chemo immediately and trying tosurvive.
This will dominate the next 18months of your life.
Wow, wow.
So I have to call the Whitehouse and say sorry, guys, can't
make breakfast, I'm dying.

Speaker 1 (41:47):
That was my exact words, yeah.

Speaker 2 (41:50):
Well, he right, and uh please, uh, extend my
apologies to the president.
Oh, and they were great, by theway.
They they checked on me severaltimes while I was going through
treatments and I've stayed intouch with those folks.

Speaker 1 (42:06):
That's great, that's great.
So now, really, from one momentto the next, you are now in the
fight of your life.
Yes, you are now in the fightof your life.

Speaker 2 (42:22):
Yes, I had.
I had a once.
They one of the things thatthere's a local doctor there in
Washington.
I am going to say his namebecause he deserves credit.
The first guy I went to was aninternal medicine doctor named
Dr Gary Miller, who literallysaved my life.
He held my hands and he waslooking at my nails.

(42:42):
I didn't know this.
He told me this later.
We stayed in touch too and mynails were not pink.
You know the pink underneaththere.
You can probably look at yours.
That was chalky white and hetold me.
Then he said I think you mayhave a more serious problem than
you're thinking you have.
He said I want you to go see afriend of mine.
So he sent me to one of the toponcologists in the world and he

(43:04):
told me later that he knew thatit was critical that whoever I
was treated by get the DNA ofthe cancer cells correct.
They had to correctly identifywhat strain of leukemia it was
in order to get the rightchemotherapy cocktail.
Wow, leukemia it was in orderto get the right chemotherapy
cocktail Wow.
So when they did that DNAtesting, it turned out I had not

(43:27):
just any leukemia but the mostdeadly leukemia on the face of
the planet and the one doctor inthe world who had ever cured it
was working out of the hospitalI went to in DC and he had
cured it one other time.

Speaker 1 (43:46):
Jeez, I'm his second.

Speaker 2 (43:52):
I'm his second case, oh my goodness.
And he was very frank with me.
He said I give you about a 2%chance to survive Two 2% and I
was glad for the.
I was glad for the candor yeah,I guess.

Speaker 1 (44:01):
At that point you got to say hey.
Well then, I love my odds.

Speaker 2 (44:06):
You know?
There you know, and he said I'mprobably going to kill you with
chemo.
He said I'm going to have togive you so much chemo at such
an intense level that the chemoalone is probably going to kill
you, but it's the only chance.
You've got Right.
So I started a very intensechemo regimen in February of
2020.
And guess what happened while Iwas in the hospital for six

(44:30):
weeks doing my first chemo.

Speaker 1 (44:31):
I don't know.
Just a few short weeks later,this little old fake pandemic
called COVID hit.

Speaker 2 (44:38):
Yeah, so now I'm locked down inC which is
actually a thousand miles frommy real home.
Yeah, my church has to move myfurniture for my wife to that
apartment in DC.
And then my wife becomes a fulltime nurse.
So I did inpatient chemo forsix weeks and I got a funny
story.
I'll share with you about that,but I don't want to distract

(44:59):
from the larger picture.
Then I did outpatient chemo asa lockdown person so my wife
never could even go in thewaiting room of the hospital.
My wife has to sit in the carin the parking lot while I'm
getting chemo for six hours at atime.
And then, after six months ofthat and they transferred me and
my body is just hammered by acombination of the leukemia and

(45:21):
the chemotherapy.
Then they transferred me and mybody is just hammered by a
combination of the leukemia andthe chemotherapy.
Then they transferred me toBaltimore where I got a bone
marrow transplant and thechemotherapy was brutal but it
was a walk in Disney Worldcompared to the bone marrow
transplant.
The bone marrow transplant justabsolutely hammered me and I
lost 90 pounds.

(45:41):
But I'm cancer free now.
I'm fully cured.
I've got some side effects.
I've got some joint uhdegradation because of all the
chemo and some of the otherstuff.
But uh, I'm, I'm cancer freeand I'm, I beat it.

Speaker 1 (45:59):
God bless you, sir.
Thank you.
Is it is, is the?
Is the bone marrow transplant?
Is that a real painful process?
It actually is, yeah.

Speaker 2 (46:11):
They gave me OxyContin for parts of it, but
it wouldn't touch it.
It's amazing I would have diedfive years ago.
They've come so far with bonemarrow transplants.
They've learned so much.
But my son was my donor and thebest you can hope for is what's
called a 50% haploid match, andhe was a 50% haploid match, so

(46:35):
he was my bone marrow donor.
He had to be stuck with twoneedles 200 times in his pelvis
200 times 200 needles in your.
Come on, 200 times 200 needlesin here, hey come on, so you
know what, when he's at my house, I used to be a big dad thing
about when I would walk into theroom and you automatically hand
me the remote because it's myhouse, my TV.
Now, when I walk into the roomand he's there.

(46:58):
I'm like you know what, keepthe remote.
You endured 200 needles andgave me your bone marrow and
saved my life.

Speaker 1 (47:04):
Go ahead, you kind of earned the right to hold the
remote.

Speaker 2 (47:10):
So you know it was.
It was hard for him, but, yeah,when they brought his bone
marrow into the room, firstthing they got to do is destroy
your bone marrow.
Okay, and that's brutal, dude.
They put you in a tube and justultra radiate you and it
shrinks your bone marrow.
So then you're what's calledneutropenic for a week or two,

(47:32):
which means you have no abilityto fight off disease.
So if I got caught, covid, atthat point, it probably would
have killed me, right?
Well then, when it finally timeand your body's ready, they
brought his bone marrow in andit was in, like you know, you
see, iv bags.
This bag looked like a trashbag from your kitchen, holy
toledo.
It was full of bone marrow, wow.

(47:53):
And they stuck it in me and itdribbled in for hours and hours
and I was in and out ofconsciousness and.
But then, as that marrow waslike migrating in your bones, it
hurts like a booger.

Speaker 1 (48:09):
Like can you just like feel it coursing through
your veins?

Speaker 2 (48:15):
No, you feel like in your long bones, and it was
particularly in my fingers.
You just feel like somebody'shitting you with a hammer.
Oh wow, wow, yeah, bones, andit was particularly in my
fingers.
Yeah, you just feel likesomebody's hitting you with a
hammer.
Oh wow, wow, yeah, because andthere were times I was in a I
was just in the fetal positionon the floor, crying, and I

(48:36):
don't want to scare people, it'sstill worth it.

Speaker 1 (48:37):
well, yeah, I mean yeah, especially when you're,
when you're when you're tryingto fight off the uh, the
deadliest form of leukemia thereis.
Yeah, I mean, you're gonna,you're gonna put yourself
through whatever you need to.

Speaker 2 (48:51):
It doesn't mean they have learned some more about
pain management since I had mine.

Speaker 1 (48:56):
So it might not be as bad for the next person, holy
cow.
Well, do you think?
Okay, now I want to kind of goback again.
Do you?
Do you think that, um, yourtime working in power plants,
working in nuclear power plants,uh, do you think that it

(49:17):
contributed to your, uh, getting?

Speaker 2 (49:19):
leukemia.
Yeah, I worked around somenasty chemicals.
I did take my safetyprecautions for the most part,
but what my oncologist thinksdid it is when I was working on
the nuclear reactor.
I was the new guy, so wheneverthey needed a sample in a really
hot, nasty place I mean hotwith radiation they sent me and

(49:40):
I was too young and bulletproof.
Okay, okay.

Speaker 1 (49:44):
Stop, stop, one second Timeout, timeout.
Okay.
First, how old are you at thispoint?

Speaker 2 (49:50):
Uh 24.

Speaker 1 (49:51):
Okay, so let me see 24 people.
I'm speaking to you now, okay,uh, 24.
And did you hear that?
Yeah, uh, what, what?
What was it?
Um, a hot, um, uh, uh, finishthat one for me.
What's that?
A hot sample, yes, and, andwe're talking a nuclear power

(50:15):
plant here.
Chris is, he's 24 and he's theyoung guy at the nuclear power
plant.
He's got good checked.
Oh my gosh.
Were you wearing like, like,like your hazmat suit.
Did it look something like likewhat we saw in ET when those
guys were wearing all theirhazmat?

Speaker 2 (50:34):
suits.
Yeah, that's it, that's thesuit.

Speaker 1 (50:37):
And that's supposed to resist radiation, right.

Speaker 2 (50:42):
Yeah, radioactive material.

Speaker 1 (50:44):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (50:45):
But the radiation still goes through the suit.
What you don't want to get isthe suits to keep the solid
stuff off your skin.
Okay, the radioactive wavesstill penetrate the suit and
you're wearing this thing calleddosimetry, and you wore
different kinds underneath yoursuit, but one of the kinds was

(51:06):
like a big fat fountain pen andyou could look through it like a
telescope and it had it had agauge inside there so you could
see in real time how muchradiation you were getting.
That thing was really nevershould come off zero, because
most of the places in a nuclearpower plant you don't get that
much in any one single night.
One night they sent me into atunnel, suited up.

(51:27):
I had to crawl down this tunneland I was.
The tunnel was right over thetop of the reactor dome and I
had to get.
I had to sample reactor gas offthe top of the dome and I took
my little fountain pen thing andI looked in it and that needle
was moving while I was watchingit and I was like, oh shit.
So I think that is what gave itto me, and my oncologist thinks

(51:52):
that too.
He tells me that this type ofleukemia has a 30-year latency
period.
And, um, the last guy you know,I told you he cured it two
times.
Yes, the other guy that had itwas a chemist also wow, okay, so
there there's, so there'sthere's.

Speaker 1 (52:10):
That just can't be coincidental, right?

Speaker 2 (52:12):
but of course for me, there's no uh disability.
There's no payment.
Uh damages nothing, becauseDamage is nothing, because I
can't prove it Wow.
I did pursue that, but it gotnowhere.

Speaker 1 (52:26):
Uh huh right, I picture Young Chris Gates.
I'm sure you, because you'rekind of a nerd like me.
Did you ever see Star Trek?
What was it the Wrath of Khan?
When Spock goes in and he'strying to?
Did you ever see Star Trek?
What was it the Wrath of Khan?
Yeah, when Spock goes in andhe's trying to fix the reactor

(52:48):
on the Enterprise and when it'sall done, his skin's falling off
and everything and he's got somuch radiation poisoning that it
takes him right then and there.
But that's what I'm picturing.
I'm picturing you doing that,chris, come on.

Speaker 2 (53:03):
Yeah, and, like I said, I was too macho to.
I was like I'll show them theycan't break me.

Speaker 1 (53:11):
Well, they didn't break you you know?

Speaker 2 (53:14):
No, they didn't.
I mean, well, they didn'tcompletely break you, but you
know yeah, I told you I had afunny story about my chemo.
So a doctor that was helping,the main oncologist that was
overseeing my treatment, wasfrom Egypt and he became a great
friend, a great guy, and I wasabout three weeks into my chemo

(53:38):
and I got I wasn't losing anyhair.
They couldn't believe it.
I hadn't thrown up once and Iswear I wasn't losing any hair.
They couldn't believe it.
I hadn't thrown up once and Iswear I don't.
There's no scientific evidenceof this.
I think I had worked around somany hazardous chemicals I built
up some kind of a hard shell orsomething and so I got hungry
and I taught my wife this wasright before the COVID lockdown.

(54:01):
I taught my wife into smugglingme in some good old Southern
barbecue.
So I'm in my hospital bedslamming a half a rack of ribs.
I got barbecue sauce drippingdown, chemo's going in the veins
and the Egyptian doctor walkedin and sees me and I said, hey,
doc, you want some ribs.

(54:21):
And he goes, mr Skates, you,sir, are the toughest son of a
bitch I ever saw.

Speaker 1 (54:32):
Yes, okay, you know what I like around my whole
family.
I tell them I, I, I claim to beSuperman.
Okay, well, compared to ChrisGates, everyone, I'm like
Superboy.
That's Superman, right there,I'm just Superboy.

Speaker 2 (54:51):
I did hold on to that day because about three weeks
later it hit me like a freighttrain and I was laying on the
bathroom floor.
But it wasn't the barbecue thatdid it, it was the chemo.

Speaker 1 (55:00):
Yeah, yeah, man, that's just amazing.
All right, can we go back to?
Let's go back to moonshine overGeorgia.
Let's talk some more about that, cause I want to get more, more
into the story of that, I'msorry.

(55:22):
More into the story.

Speaker 2 (55:26):
Yeah, and it's a great rich story.
When I was in the cancerprotocol I was I told myself I'm
going to get my grandfather'sstory published Somehow.
I put it away and I never gotit published.
I had written the fullmanuscript in the in the waning
years but I never, never was hadbeen able to get it published.

(55:48):
And I said, if I live throughthis, I'm going to find a way to
get it published.
Well, I wouldn't have found iton my own.
I don't think.
Becky Norton Dunlop from earlierin my life and, by the way, she
was locked down in DC while Iwas going through my cancer.
So we got to our families, gotto get together a couple of
times when we had a break andshe was just great to me and she
kept calling me and checking onme.

(56:10):
She was actually a mile away,small world Again.
I ended up renting an apartment.
I didn't know where she livedand she was like a mile away
from me.
So we stayed in touch and sowhen I got back to Kentucky, she
called me one day and she saidmoonshine, out of Georgia, out
of my head, and George and Ihave just retired and we've
decided we want you to be ourfirst project.

(56:31):
We want to see moonshine overGeorgia published.
So she started introducing meto some of her friends and we
want to see Moonshine RiverGeorgia published.
So she started introducing meto some of her friends, and so
Moonshine River Georgia getspublished and it's a great.
I really.
I love the look of the book.
I love the interior layout.
Everything about it went great.
So I got it published and Iproduced and directed the audio

(56:52):
book.
But the story is fascinating.
So my grandfather was a revenueagent.
He would look for thesemoonshine stills as part of my
research for the book I wantedto have.
The murder that's covered inmoonshine over Georgia is the
murder of a victim named WilsonTurner by a man named John
Wallace.
John Wallace was a Georgiamoonshine kingpin, like a local

(57:16):
crime boss.
He had gunmen.
He ruled an entire countycalled Meriwether County.
With an iron fist.
He owned the sheriff.
Everybody did what John Wallacetold them to do, and so my
grandfather knew that he had ahuge still somewhere, and so he
was trying to investigateWallace for making moonshine,

(57:39):
and Wallace knew he was lookingfor his still.
They had gotten to know eachother.
So I want to go back to myclever art.
Let me reach down here so yousee this you see this car and
the barn and everything.

Speaker 1 (57:51):
I do, I see.
I see the headlights and I seethe barn at the bottom of the
cover there.

Speaker 2 (57:54):
Yeah, yeah, I see the headlights and I see the barn
at the bottom of the cover.
Yeah, yeah, so he was actuallyinterested in making a liquor
case against Wallace Well, holdthat thought a minute.
In the 1970s somebody wrote abook about this murder called
Murder in Coweta County.
It became a New York Timesbestseller.
A local reporter in Newnan,georgia, which is where it all

(58:23):
took place, wrote the book.
It became a bestseller.
It was made into a movie, Ithink in the early 90s or late
80s, starring Johnny Cash.
Johnny Cash read the bookMurder in Coweta County, fell in
love with it.
He said I want to play thesheriff in this story.
So he made a movie calledMurder in Coweta County.
You can watch it on YouTube andguess who played the killer.

Speaker 1 (58:45):
I know who played the killer.
He looked it up.

Speaker 2 (58:48):
Andy Griffith.
So remember the story about mewatching the Andy Griffith show
with my grandfather, and thenAndy Griffith ends up playing
John Wallace the killer killer.

Speaker 1 (58:57):
What's funny, though.
What's what's really funnyabout that?
I don't mean funny, haha, justthe irony in it is that all
these years ago, you're watchingan episode of andy griffith
involving moonshine, and then,all these years later, here's
this movie about moonshine, andGriffith is is in it again, and

(59:19):
now he's the bad guy.

Speaker 2 (59:21):
So when the movie came out and my grandfather had
read the book and was not happyabout it Okay, we can talk a
little bit about while later butwhen the movie came out, I'm
watching it at my grandfather'shouse and my grandfather comes
by and hits me on the leg.
He says boy, what are youwatching that crap for?
I said, pop, this is reallycool.
You were in the book, maybeyou're going to be in the movie.

(59:42):
They mentioned my grandfatherbriefly in the book.
He should have been mentioned alot more.
He said all them movie.
People don't know nothing.
He said when it's over, youcome back to my room.

Speaker 1 (59:58):
He took me back in his room.
Let me get this prop here.
Sure, where he had this.
This is great stuff, people.
Oh yo a little toolbox.

Speaker 2 (01:00:02):
Yeah, yeah, it's really just a little tackle box,
but he had some of hisimportant papers in it, and I'll
show you one that I've stillgot.
I'll show you two.
So he was a revenue agent, andas a revenue agent, his primary
responsibility was to findmoonshine stills, and so this is

(01:00:22):
a commendation from thegovernor of Georgia that this is
raised.
I see.

Speaker 1 (01:00:28):
I see, yeah, it's, it's I.
I don't know if that's embossedor debossed one of the two, but
yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:00:34):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:00:35):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:00:36):
Yeah, Got the state capital, it says.
Dear agent Miller, I want totake this opportunity to
congratulate you on theexcellent job you did in helping
toward the indictment andconviction of the liquor gang in
Upson County.
Well, Upson County is adifferent county than the John
Wallace murder.
So when I wrote my book Idecided I want to make the Upson

(01:00:59):
County is a different countythan the John Wallace murder.
Ah, so when I wrote my book Idecided I want to make the Upson
County liquor gang case.
I want to marry it to the samesummer that's the great thing
about fiction based on actualevents as the John Wallace case.
So now I've got himinvestigating two things at the
same time.
So the book really moves fast.
Right A lot happening in everychapter, right?
But the other thing he showed meno longer exists.
I can't find it anywhere.
There was a handwritten note inthis box, written in pencil on

(01:01:22):
a, on a piece of women'sstationery, and it said agent
Miller, it is urgent that wespeak.
Meet me at my barn at midnight.
That's this artwork.
Okay, my grandfather went tothe meeting.
My mother was a little girl.
She remembers holding on to himand begging him not to go.

(01:01:44):
And her mother was holding onto him, begging him not to go
because they thought Wallace wasgoing to kill my grandfather.
All right, but my grandfatherwent to the meeting and that's
how my story starts.
So my grandfather's involvementin the John Wallace murder of
Wilson Turner really beganintensely a year before the
murder occurred, because whatJohn Wallace didn't know that

(01:02:08):
night, but what my grandfatherwas concerned about was Wilson
Turner.
The victim was my grandfather'sinformant, or he was at least
trying to talk him into becominghis informant.
Right yeah, and all this iscovered in my book.
Murder in Coweta County missedall of that.
My grandfather is the only lawofficer that Wallace wrote

(01:02:31):
letters about during his time inprison that Wallace wrote
letters about during his time inprison.
He wrote entire letters aboutmy grandfather and that midnight
meeting.
It's key to the whole case.
How the movie people miss thatbaffles me.
I know how, but it would takeme too long to explain it and it
wasn't anything sinister ontheir part.

(01:02:51):
They just weren't local people.
They didn't have a grandfatherwho was intimately involved in
the entire investigation.
So murder wasn't normally in mygrandfather's jurisdiction.
But because it was hisinformant, he took it personally
and he involved himself in theinvestigation and he was key to
bringing the conviction.
But then at the same time thisUpson County Liquor Gang case.

(01:03:12):
I was able to find the lastsurviving member of the Upson
County Liquor Gang in a nursinghome in Panama City Beach,
florida.

Speaker 1 (01:03:22):
This guy had to be like in his 90s.

Speaker 2 (01:03:24):
Right, he was 93.
And his mind was as sharp asmine or yours right now.
His body was failing, his heartwas failing, but his mind was
crystal clear and I spent threeof the most fascinating hours of
my life with that gentleman.
And I didn't know keep in mind,I didn't know how many people
were in the Upson County LiquorGang.
I didn't know if he knew mygrandfather or not, but when I

(01:03:44):
had the meeting with him I saiddid you know a revenue agent
named CE Miller?
That's my grandfather.
Yeah, and his exact words wereI didn't just know the son of a
bitch, he's the one that took meto jail.
I don't care if he liked him ordidn't like him.
Now I've got a living witness tomy grandfather that knew him in

(01:04:06):
his heyday.
That is great.
He said something that I'lltake to my grave as a treasure.
He said I fought in World WarII in the infantry, but your
grandfather was the only man Iever met in my life that I would
say was completely fearless.
He was fearless and he wasrelentless.
And he said your grandfather,before he arrested me one night,

(01:04:29):
he chased me through the woodsfor 20, no, for 12 miles.
He said he would not give up.
He said I finally got away fromhim that night but he caught me
later.

Speaker 1 (01:04:39):
Wow, sometimes people say that those, uh, that those
traits are foolish, but uh,others will say that's very
noble to have those traits.
You know, yeah, and it was.

Speaker 2 (01:04:48):
It goes back to the original story.
He told me it was the kids.

Speaker 1 (01:04:52):
He was tired of seeing kids lives ruined by
alcoholism and I just never likeI, I said earlier, I, I, I
don't know if it's just me, Idon't think it's just me, but on
the whole, we just seem to havethis completely different idea
about moonshining and we say, oh, it's this guy, you know, yeah,

(01:05:12):
he makes it in his bathtub andhe puts it in mason jars and you
know, he's just selling it orgiving it to all of his buddies,
you know, and that kind ofthing, and it's so much more
than that.
It sounds like there was awhole, it's a whole underworld.

Speaker 2 (01:05:25):
Yeah, there was, and in fairness, there were
moonshiners like you described.
Right and there were guys likePopcorn Sutton who really cared
about making good liquor and itwas safe to drink, but the more
money there was to be made, themore unscrupulous guys got into

(01:05:46):
it, guys that didn't know whatthe hell they were doing.
I'm working on a sequel tomoonshine over georgia right now
about another bad guy mygrandfather went over, went
after and arrested who, who wasbased in Atlanta, named Fat
Hardy.
You can't make up these names.
The real names are better thananything you can make up.
Fat Hardy weighed 380 poundsand he screwed up the
distillation process one night,and so he produced toxic

(01:06:10):
methanol instead of thedrinkable ethanol and he
realized his mistake.
But rather than dump it out, heput artificial flavoring in it
and sold it anyway.
And in one night in Atlanta,georgia, he blinded 324 people
and killed 31.
Wow, man, and he became thesecond guy my grandfather sent

(01:06:34):
to the electric chair.

Speaker 1 (01:06:38):
It's things like that .
That's why moonshining wasreally so bad and that's why it.
You know, carelessness likethat is what probably got a lot
of people hooked on it as welland, yeah, and kept people in in
poverty right yeah, man, that'sbad.
You, it was funny.
The other day I don't evenremember what I was looking at
and I saw this picture and itwas a depression era picture of

(01:07:02):
four or five hadn't eaten indays, bellies distended.
That's exactly what these youngboys in this picture looked
like, you know.

(01:07:22):
And when I saw the picture theother day, I thought exactly of
you, because we had talked aboutthis a little bit before.
And, man, it's just, yeah, Icould see how it's like you.
You said it was yourgrandfather.
It wasn't.
It wasn't the dummies doingthis stuff, it was how it was
affecting the kids and theirfamilies and that's why he did

(01:07:46):
what he did, because it was forthe kids and uh, man, let me
share a line with you from thebook too.

Speaker 2 (01:07:53):
Sure, sure.
My grandfather grew up inNorthern Florida, a little town
called Evanston, evanston.
Even if you drive to it today,and I went not long ago, it's
like a little place lost in time.
Wow, the general store that wasin operation when my
grandfather was a little boy in1910, it's still in operation

(01:08:15):
today Same building.
It's the oldest continuouslyoperating store in the United
States of America.
Wow, that's great.
Just a little one room store.
That is awesome.
So he grew up in a householdwith five sisters.
He was the only boy in a singleparent home so he was sent out
at six years old to hunt coons,rabbits, whatever he could get

(01:08:42):
so they could survive.
It wasn't for fun.

Speaker 1 (01:08:44):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:08:46):
And so he developed incredible navigation skills in
the deep woods, incredibleendurance and incredible
marksmanship skills and tracking.
So he was basically lived morelike a pioneer and was pretty
much a professional hunter bythe time he was 13 or 14 years
old.
So when he became an adult andhe found out they would pay him

(01:09:09):
to hunt moonshiners, he was like, well, that's right up my alley
.
So that's one of the reasons hewas so incredibly effective at
it.
And then he moved to Georgiaand did all his revenue agent
work in Georgia.
But where murder in CowetaCounty gets things wrong and my
book gets it right is how thevictim was found.

(01:09:30):
When the assault happenedagainst Wilson Turner, the body
was hidden so effectively thatthey almost had to drop the case
, and where my grandfather camein was finding the body.
But I promise you I was goingto tell you a little blurb from
the book.
So when my grandfather was alittle boy there in North

(01:09:51):
Florida where that general storewas, he saw something and I
don't want to go into too muchdetail because it would be a
spoiler.
Yeah, no, don't, don't do thatbut he saw some drunk men
basically assault a little girland he tried to help her and he
was very sickly at the time.
He had malaria.
Mosquitoes were just rampant innorthern florida the early

(01:10:13):
1900s, as you can imagine.
Sure, and he tried to fightthese guys.
It was just a little kid and hehad no chance.
But in the book I say he wentback to it, he lost track of the
men, took the little girl awayand he lost them and he cried,
he said.
In the book he says on the wayhome I cried, hot cried, hot

(01:10:34):
tears, not for myself, but forthat little girl.
Yeah, and I pray.
I looked out of my window whenI got back to my house and I
looked at the moon and I prayedto God that I would grow up big
and strong and then I would meetmen again like that and I would
know just what to do?

Speaker 1 (01:10:51):
I'm like getting chills right now and that's what
my book's about.

Speaker 2 (01:10:55):
Believe me, when he became an adult, he had an
agenda.

Speaker 1 (01:10:58):
Yeah, and he had an agenda and, like you said,
relentless, you know, not goingto stop at anything.
That's just, that's awesome, so, wow.
So again, folks, the book isMoonshine Over Georgia.
I'm a little misty-eyed here,sorry.
I'm having a hard time seeing,hearing about so poor little

(01:11:21):
girl, that just you know, no,that should never happen.
But the book's availableeverywhere, right.
Amazon and your website also,right?

Speaker 2 (01:11:34):
I don't have a website right now.
I'm going to reestablish one,but I'm on Facebook.
That's the best place to reachout to me.
Send me a message on Facebook.
I'd love to get your reviews,if your listeners get the book.
Also, if you would post areview on Amazon, it really
helps me out.

Speaker 1 (01:11:48):
Yeah, that's great, that's awesome.

Speaker 2 (01:11:51):
I've got like 210 reviews on there and 99% of them
are five star.
That's awesome.

Speaker 1 (01:11:57):
See, that's great, See, so it's all worth it.
People will be the.
It'll be worth the, the fewbucks that you'll invest in this
book.
And look if the other stuffsounded good, like going green,
which I that sounded reallyreally good, but also the tower.
And what was?

(01:12:18):
What was the process with therain, the rain, I remember that.
So you worked in the Trumpadministration for just a short
time, just a short time, but itwas good, right, Good time.

Speaker 2 (01:12:32):
Yeah yeah.
I got to be in three meetingswith the president Fascinating
to watch him do his thing.
He's a brilliant guy.
He's very aware of eventechnical aspects of what's
going on.
I think people are starting tosee that now.
The first administration of themedia was very unfair to him,
but he's playingthree-dimensional chess a lot of

(01:12:53):
times.

Speaker 1 (01:12:53):
I think it's 4D Really, yeah, so okay.
So you saw a little bit fromthat first term, and certainly
President Trump didn't getreelected well, second time
around, second time around.

(01:13:22):
But now that he is in officeagain and we're I don't know,
120, 125 days into his second ofI don't know what three or four
terms maybe.
What do you think now?
What do you think so far?

Speaker 2 (01:13:33):
I love most everything he's doing Not 100%,
but I mean, who do you agreewith 100% of the time?
And maybe on the part that I'mdisagreeing on, maybe he knows
better than me but particularlyI'd like to focus on an area
that I'm the most familiar withand that's energy and
environmental regulation, andhe's knocking it out of the park
.
He's doing things in those twospaces that I have called for

(01:13:57):
and published work that I'vedone for 20 years, stuff that
desperately needs to be done forthe good of America.
I don't want to go too far downthis rabbit hole, but the whole
man-caused climate changehysteria, where we shut down
power plant after power plantafter power plant because of CO2
, is a fool's errand.

(01:14:18):
Thank you, thank you, until theCOVID thing I called a man
caused catastrophic climatechange, and those descriptors
are key.
I'm not saying there's no suchthing as climate change.
I'm saying it's not man causedand it's not catastrophic.
But the hysteria over that wasthe greatest scientific fraud

(01:14:39):
ever perpetuated on humanity.
Right, and like my originalbook, going Green said, it was
done on purpose and it was doneto weaken the United States.
And so now he is calling.
He's called all the right shots, but it's one thing for the
president to have a vision tocreate American energy dominance
.
It's another thing to executethat vision.

(01:15:01):
Yeah, and that's going to bethe hard part.
Now.
Build a power plant is not likebuilding a tool shed in your
backyard.
So if we want to get, if wewant to get this generation on
the grid, we got to.

Speaker 1 (01:15:13):
We got to start breaking ground, like now right,
yeah, energy is so veryimportant and and and it's it
doesn't come from the wind, fromwind, and it doesn't come from
the sun.
You know it.
It's just, it can, and I, I mepersonally like I don't have
anything against those forms ofenergy, but only in

(01:15:37):
supplementation, not to replace.

Speaker 2 (01:15:42):
That's exactly right, and I'm in Kentucky.
I'm going to advocate forsomething here.
Underneath my feet are some ofthe richest coal reserves in the
world, and we've got at least150 years worth left and we have
laid it on the altar ofsacrifice to the green goddess.
We aren't digging any coal.
We're not digging a fraction ofthe coal in kentucky that we

(01:16:05):
were because of the climatechange hysteria so why should we
sacrifice that energy sourcefor this misguided environmental
ocean?
President Trump talked about inhis inaugural address beautiful,
clean coal, and he's right.
We can burn coal and do itclean and have very reliable

(01:16:28):
energy.
The power plant, the last powerplant I worked at, was built in
1956.
In 2015, it was available at100% capacity 98% of the time
that you needed it.
Wow.

Speaker 1 (01:16:43):
Isn't the newest power plant that we have?
Wasn't it built like 35 yearsago, 40 years ago?

Speaker 2 (01:16:51):
Nuclear yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:16:52):
Yeah, okay, some of the coal ones are newer than
that, okay, all right.

Speaker 2 (01:16:57):
Nuclear, yeah, yeah, okay, some of the coal ones are
newer than that.
Okay, all right.
But they shut down so many coalplants I mean I think it's like
10 000 gigawatts now that havebeen taken off the grid.
The plant where I worked lastwas shut down and basically
spiked uh, they, they let it getflooded so on purpose, so that
you couldn't restart it.
Wow, and, and I think that wasdriven by environmentalists, so
you couldn't restart mine, you'dhave to build a new one.

(01:17:20):
But we've got.
We've got natural gas.
And if we get back to fracking,as Sarah Palin said, everybody
laughed at her, but she wasright Drill, baby drill.
We can do natural gas turbines,which I've also worked on, but
we can get some coal, some smallmodular nuclear reactors.
We can get some coal, somesmall modular nuclear reactors.
We can get some small modularcoal plants going.

(01:17:41):
If we set our mind to it, thisunited states of america, we've
got fuel sources coming out ofour ears.
All we got to do is get theenvironmentalists out of the way
, and I don't mean sacrifice theenvironment, I mean just be
reasonable about it.

Speaker 1 (01:17:54):
Yeah, yeah, I.
I totally understand whatyou're saying.
I lockstep with you on that,because the United States does
oil, coal, nuclear energy betterand cleaner than anybody on the

(01:18:29):
planet.
That's right.
That's right.
Keep the United States down forthe betterment of everybody
else.
Instead, it needs to be theother way around.
Start looking at what everyoneelse is doing around the world
and come down on them for it andlet us continue to do what it
is we're doing.
But I guess it's way above mypay grade and I'm sure that

(01:18:52):
there's a lot of money that getsinvolved in that kind of stuff.

Speaker 2 (01:18:56):
So definitely yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:18:57):
Yeah, but anyway, your story is fascinating.
It really is.
It's, it's so um and and,honestly, people we've we've
really only touched the surface.
We've so touched the surface onthis.
It's so much more in depth andit's so much better than what

(01:19:21):
you've actually heard today orwatched today.
Um and uh.
I can't thank you enough, chris.
I can't thank you enough to dothis and you know reaching out
and wanting to, wanting to, tobe on on on this podcast, you
know um but um and when you getwell, let me say this, when,

(01:19:41):
when you, uh, when you get readywith the next book, please, I
would love to have you backbecause I just thank you, I'll
reach out.
Yeah, I would love to look.

Speaker 2 (01:19:51):
I do want to I do want to mention.
Can I mention one last book?
You can mention anything youwant, absolutely.
This one just came out twoweeks ago Showdown of the
Beanstalk.
Okay, so that's me as a littlecowboy, that's my sister and
then this is me when I wasgetting chemo.
All right, but the subtitle isStories of an Overcomer.

(01:20:12):
So that's my first nonfictionbook.
It's a collection of shortstories, and a lot of them are
about things that I overcame asa child and a lot of them are
about some of what I told youmore detailed about beating
leukemia.
But I didn't write it in anyway as oh, poor little me, look
at what I went through book it'sabout.

(01:20:34):
That's why the subtitle isStories of an overcomer.
I wrote that for somebody elsethat's just been diagnosed with
cancer or somebody else that'sin a difficult relationship or
somebody else that's reallystruggling at work.
So they can see hey, look, Imade it through.
Here's how you're going to makeit too.
It's really a book to encouragepeople and uplift people.

(01:20:55):
Right, it's a short story.
You don't have to read it inchronological order.
It could be a good bathroomread, and a third of the stories
are humor.
I actually started out.
One of my first types of storywriting was humor stories, so
I'm getting really good feedbackon it.
It's only been out a couple ofweeks, but that's another one.

(01:21:15):
If you, if you want somethingto read, some short stories and
get a laugh or two, show thatcover one more time, please.

Speaker 1 (01:21:21):
And then I want everybody.

Speaker 2 (01:21:22):
It's also on Amazon.
All my books are on Amazon Allright.

Speaker 1 (01:21:25):
So just if you're listening to this, it's Showdown
at the Beanstalk and it's byChris Gates and, as he said,
that one's also available onAmazon.

Speaker 2 (01:21:34):
The reason it's called that is when I was a
little kid I played Cowboysconstantly.
I was obsessed with Gunsmokeand so I decided in my
five-year-old brain that thegiant from Jack and the
Beanstalk had taken up residenceon our farm.
So the showdown at theBeanstalk is the first humor

(01:21:56):
story in the book, and it'sabout how I got on my stick
horse with my six shooter anddecided to go slay the giant.

Speaker 1 (01:22:02):
Nice, nice, um, uh, oh, yes, so so the books are all
available on Amazon.
Or if people reach out to youon Facebook, right, they can get
yeah, if you want an autographcopy, I can mail you one.
Awesome, awesome.
You know I I forgot this.
I wanted to.
I wanted to ask him to put myglasses back on here so I can

(01:22:23):
see what it is I'm looking at.
Um, okay, so now are youworking on a?
Uh, are you working on anautobiography?
Are you gonna put all thisstuff in a book itself?
A?

Speaker 2 (01:22:39):
lot of these stories and showing out the beanstalk
are essentially an autobiography.
It's just not quite perfectlychronological.

Speaker 1 (01:22:47):
Yeah, hope of my life story is in there okay, okay, I
you Okay, okay, I you know, um,I like autobiographies and um,
I just say I find that stuff Ijust like.
I like stories about people, Ilike something that's
fascinating, you know, and I'lltell my life story.

Speaker 2 (01:23:08):
I just tell it in the form of essays.

Speaker 1 (01:23:10):
Right, right, you know, um, you and I talked about
this previously.
A lot of people love books.
I mean, I love books myself,and a lot of people use the same
excuse that I do where, oh, Ijust I love them, I love to read
, but I don't have time to read.
And you said something thatreally resonated with me and

(01:23:33):
it's something that I'm going toput more focus on and more, uh,
try to get this done more, andthat was to just take 10 minutes
, 10, just 10 minutes a day.
If you, if there's a book outthere you want to read, just
take 10 minutes a day and readit.
You'll probably find, you'llprobably find yourself reading
more like 15 minutes.

Speaker 2 (01:23:52):
You will exactly right I, when you and I were
talking pre-show, I said peoplereally do have time to read.
They just think they don'tbecause their screens have
robbed them.
Yes, our screen time is makingus and I'm guilty of it too.
Our screen time makes us feelso overwhelmed with input and
busyness that when we get somequiet time, we just want to zone

(01:24:15):
out, maybe turn the TV oninstead of reading a good book,
or do more screen time, whichjust feeds the beast and the
books that I've set a goal forthis year to try to read 24
books.
I'm a little behind, but I'veread several, and the way I've
done it is I cut my screen timein half.
You know everybody's smartphonewill track your screen time for

(01:24:36):
you.

Speaker 1 (01:24:37):
Yeah, yeah, I just.

Speaker 2 (01:24:39):
I did less social media, which was a lot of wasted
time anyway, and I was readinga ton of articles on social
media, and so I cut that in halfand instead picked up a book
and I've I've knocked out about,I think, 10 books this year no
eight eight, but I'm still goingto try to make 24 by the end.
Books this year, no eight Eight.
But I'm still going to try tomake 24 by the end of the year.

Speaker 1 (01:25:01):
As much as I love reading, it's still.
I'm a slow reader, though, see,I didn't attend.

Speaker 2 (01:25:05):
Yeah, I am too.

Speaker 1 (01:25:06):
I didn't attend the Evelyn Woods School of Speed
Reading For all us old people.
We understand that reference.
Okay, yeah, the young ones outthere, you won't understand.

Speaker 2 (01:25:17):
I think a slow reader absorbs it more.

Speaker 1 (01:25:20):
I try, I'll take something in, and there's some
times I have to go and read it asecond or third time before I
can turn the page or something,Maybe because I just want to
absorb it more.
Again, I can't thank you enoughfor this.
You are a fascinatingstoryteller.

(01:25:40):
I love the fact that you likedetail.
I mean you have to, because ifyou're going to write a book,
you better include all thedetails too.
But I know when I listen tostories, that's what I want to
hear.
I want to hear all the details.
I know when I tell stories,people tell me oh my gosh, you

(01:26:02):
talk too much and it takes youso long to tell this story.
And I said well, but I want toput you right in there and make
you feel like you were part ofthe story.

Speaker 2 (01:26:12):
I don't want you to just listen to it I understand
and the top two comments I'vehad from readers and this is
going back to my very first book, yeah, but I really had it in
spades on moonshine georgia is Ifelt like I was there, I felt
like I knew the characters and Icouldn't put it down.
That's the best compliment awriter could get.
Yeah, and they don't fullyrealize that that's by design,

(01:26:36):
because I got my chops as ashort story writer, so I tend to
write my chapters as a seriesof.
I've got like 66 chapters inMoonshine River Georgia.
There are 66 short stories inthere that are there, of course,
interconnected, but I like togive the reader a short chapter

(01:26:57):
that something real happensduring that chapter.
So if they've only got a fewminutes to read, if you've got
10 minutes to read, you canknock out a chapter of my book
easy in 10 minutes.
Then you throw your bookmark inthere and you're at a point
where you're wanting to go back.
You're wanting the next chapter.

Speaker 1 (01:27:12):
Yeah, yeah, that's great, okay.
So, look, I'm going to wrap uphere, so stick with me, chris,
okay.

Speaker 2 (01:27:21):
Okay.

Speaker 1 (01:27:22):
All right, listen everyone.
Thank you so much for beinghere today.
We're going to call it.
As you know, this program isavailable wherever you get your
podcast.
It's on all the streamingservices, so, whichever one
you're using, just search theBen Maynard program.
Boom, it's right there.
Just subscribe to it.

(01:27:42):
Sorry, didn't mean to hit that.
Just subscribe to it, um, andyou'll get notified anytime a
new episode drops.
However, if you're watching onYouTube and you just can't
resist this, you're justenjoying this, or maybe you're
enjoying that over there too.
Thank you for doing that.
Again, subscribe to the channel, give me a thumbs up and leave

(01:28:05):
a comment.
All right, I love the comments.
Also, you have to tell 10,000of your family and friends too.
All right, and last but notleast, follow me on Instagram
Ben Maynard program all one word.
Or follow me on TikTok the BenMaynard program.
All right, with that, we'redone.
We'll see you next time,everyone.

(01:28:28):
Okay, this is the Ben Maynardprogram.
Tell a friend.

All Episodes

Episode Transcript

Popular Podcasts

Stuff You Should Know

My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark

The Joe Rogan Experience

.css-15opob5{left:0;position:absolute;top:0.8rem;} All Episodes

.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}EP. 92 MOONSHINE OVER GEORGIA: The Hidden Story Behind America's Deadly Addiction. A Conversation with Chris Skates

Episode Transcript

Popular Podcasts

.css-r6mb8g{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:1;overflow:hidden;}Stuff You Should Know

My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark

The Joe Rogan Experience

All Episodes

EP. 92 MOONSHINE OVER GEORGIA: The Hidden Story Behind America's Deadly Addiction. A Conversation with Chris Skates

Stuff You Should Know