Comic Book Legend Scott Lobdell | Best Worst Idea Podcast Episode One - The Best Worst Idea with Frank Hannah

Episode Transcript
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Frank Hannah (00:06):
The Best Worst idea is a weekly podcast
exploring how our worst ideasoften give way to our best
ideas. What's your best worstidea? Want to find out? Let's go

Scott Lobdell (00:29):
You're so ugly you'll give me a modern art
masterpiece. You look like ablueberry. Who's gonna take his
place? says Jesus.

See this? This is my and welcome to the best worst
idea podcast. My name is FrankHannah and I am your host. This
is the place where we discussthe creative process, we kick it
around, demystify it. Today, myguest is a mad genius. He's a

(01:04):
comic book legend who has pennedextended runs on several
different books and the X Menfranchise. He's revitalized Teen
Titans, Super Boy and theSuperman titles. He garnered a
rabid and loyal following withRed Hood and the Outlaws and
that's to say nothing of hiswork in film and TV. He wrote
the massive horror comedy smashhappy death day. And in 2020, he

(01:28):
sold his comic book propertyball and chain to Netflix, which
is to be turned into a filmstarring Dwayne The Rock Johnson
and Emily Blunt. If anybodyknows anything about the
creative process, it is myfriend, Scott loved Dell.
Welcome, Scott.

Well, thank you, Frank, it's always a very odd
experience to hear somebodyeulogize you while you're still
alive. So, thank you for that.

Well, somebody has to do it, as well with me. Yeah.
So um, as kind of the intro kindof suggests, this is kind of a
new podcast. And the idea isthat we really want to talk
about people's creative process.
And it's called The Best Worstidea because creative people I
think, that are successful endup not stopping at the first or

(02:15):
second idea, good ideas may notcome until the 10th or 50th, or
100 or more. And that's thedifference, I think, between a
lot of a lot of people. So you,I've always known you to be this
kind of creative madman in thesense that you you've just got a
million ideas running around inyour head, and who better to

(02:37):
really kind of talk about kindof that process, how you manage
that how you filter ideas, andyou realize that ideas could be
horrible at first, but then leadto something better.

Oh, yeah, one of my favorite things to do as
well, you've heard me do it, butI do it with other people, as
I'll be like, Oh, my God, I hadthe worst idea. It's so
terrible. And you know, and thensometimes, sometimes the
reaction will be like, well,that's not really terrible.
That's actually a good idea. Andso it's like, okay, you know,
so, so I'm not I don't shy awayfrom bad ideas. And because you
never know, like you say, you,you might think a 10 ideas. And

(03:16):
I don't know, some people, somepeople obsess on one idea. And I
don't, I have never been that Ithink I have the opposite
opposite problem. In fact, at myage, I believe I have come to
accept the fact that I will notlive long enough to write
everything I want to write,right, they still want to write
books, I'd like to write, likethose Jack Reacher books that
are so awesome. I'd love to,like, find a character and write

(03:38):
the hell out of it for a fewyears, but but I also still want
to keep writing movies, becauseI want to create TV, you know,
comic books. And so when I wasyounger, I used to think, Oh,
I'm gonna write this one,they're gonna write that one
again. But now I realize thatno, I can't, I'm not gonna be
alive long enough.

It's interesting, because I often felt like, there
was one thing that you know, youneeded to do when you were
younger. Like, for me, I reallywanted to write and work in
film, you know, because it's avery tough industry to be in.
You know, you can't always dothat. And so you're yearning to
do these things. You're waitingfor things to get funded. But

(04:13):
then you I came to realize overtime that, you know, it's not so
much one thing, it's this area,and for me, creating things
became kind of this wider way tokind of feed that aspect of my,
my soul, but also kind of helpedme to generate ideas and kind of
live more creatively. And Ithink that that's something that

(04:33):
we sometimes feel like if I'mnot doing this one type of
thing, then that's the end ofthe story. But I think it's
really that it could be a wholenumber of things that fit into
the creative world and and toyour point, you look out and you
say, God, there's so many thingsI want to do. And as you get
older, there's a limited amountof time. And like how many more

(04:55):
scripts do you have in you? Howmany more books How many how
much more time because you justknow it takes a lot of attention
and focus to kind of mount anyof these type of these type of
things. So I don't know I, I'vealways been in awe of the way
your brain works and how you areconstantly have ideas. I can't

(05:18):
fault somebody for coming upwith 50 Shitty ideas, if it
leads to like the one where I'mlike, Oh, my God, Scott, that's
an amazing

number 250 to one?

Well, no, but that's exactly for myself, I
would say it's, you know,there's a, there's a you have to
wade through a lot of crap toget to what is good, but I don't
look at that as, oh, it's notworth it, I look at it. Like
that's just part of the deal.
The the part of it is thatyou're going to come up with
parts of what your idea is, thatmay lead to a kernel of what

(05:52):
it's really going to end upbeing. And then ultimately, it
may not even be right away,maybe a year, maybe two years.

I'll give you example, as and I don't know if
this is ever I don't think I'veever spoken about before. So
this could be fun. Or it couldbe like, oh, yeah, I know that
story. But I know that story.
They, the people that had magicAPL after happy Ted, they came
to me and said, you know, can dosome of the magic eight balls,
maybe something scary. And I'mlike, Yeah, and I looked at it.

(06:22):
And I was, you know, I thoughtwell, actually, there's more of,
it's more of a liar, liar typething where some guy gets a
magic eight ball. And he's, youknow, works for this new
company. And they have to bringa gift to their Japanese owners.
And so he picks up this magiceight ball, and he goes, he's at

(06:42):
this party for the weekend,where they're meeting the
bosses. And he realizes thathe's stuck with this magic eight
ball in his hand. And the onlyway he can get it off is to do
whatever the magic eight balltells him. So anytime he has to
make a choice, he has a magiceight ball, the magic eight ball
tells them blah, blah, blah. SoI imagine a pie was going to
different stores looking for oneto have it so I could think

(07:05):
about. And then you startthinking about this idea for a
movie about a police artist whois really good at like, you
know, you describe the personwho would you know, the person
was self assaulted you. And thenthe police sketch artist
sketches it up. And what happensis one day, he is sketching, and

(07:26):
that night, he goes to bed, andhe starts to catching a
dumpster. And he sketches. Aknife. And he's like, that's
weird. And then it, you know, hegoes back the next day shows a
detective, I give him the shirtenough, they go and they find
the dumpster and they find theknife. And so like now they

(07:46):
know, now they not only have thekiller, but they have how he did
it, then it starts to take himover where he's at a restaurant.
And these two people are talkingand he starts sketching. And he
inadvertently discovers thatthese two guys at the next table
are like CIA operatives who areworking on American soil. And
then he gets pulled into thesame strictly because he is

(08:07):
producing this evidence that hecouldn't possibly otherwise know
about if he didn't see it as hewas drawing it. And so it
becomes, you know, one of thoselike, you know, Marathon Man,
like guy caught up in theregular guy caught up in this
crazy situation. Large priority.
You know what I based it on? No,when I was in the store, the toy

(08:29):
store, they had a keychain, havean etch a sketch. And I thought,
jeez, someday somebody's goingto do, you know, freakin Etch A
Sketch movie. And I How wouldhow would that work? I thought,
wait a minute. And so

and that's how I ideas are born. Right? Yeah. And

it's like, and, you know, you hear that you hear
that story? It's like, okay, Icould see it, you know, to movie
and, you know, introduce it, youknow, I mean, not the best movie
in the world. But it was like, Ijust saw a keychain. And I'm
like, Okay, if I had toextrapolate from, you know,

well, yeah. And I think that that's the thing that
always fascinates me aboutcreativity at all, is sometimes
you'll have an idea. And for thelife, you can't make it work.
It's an element, or a device orsomething, and you just know,
it's worthwhile. But you can'tmake it work. And then five
years later, you're in themiddle of something and you

(09:25):
realize that that is thesolution to whatever your story
issue is, or story problem is,and, and sometimes it doesn't
take that long to be able toutilize it, but it's, it just
goes to show you that when yougo through that process, it
feels like it's, you know, endsup being nothing. But now it's
in there and then you get to usethat somewhere in the future.

And maybe it's like having a baby maybe like
the ideas there and it justtakes time to write. Sure. And
yeah, you know, one of thethings I think you and I do a
lot and I do it with otherpeople but in different ways.
I'll tell you Exactly. But youknow, the good thing is is you
and I both appreciate a story.
Yeah, and a fun story andcloser. But we don't always, you

(10:07):
and I don't always make the samechoices. And sometimes we're
like, Well, what about, but thething is, is that like, I like
the fact that I can come to youand I'll say, Hey, I got this
crazy thing to do. I'll be like,What do you think? And you go,
Well, I don't think it worksbecause of this. But what you
said makes me think of that,like, this is where I thought
you were going, right? And thenit gives me the ability to go,

(10:29):
okay, that's not an avenue thatI was exploring. And now it's
like, you know, now you eithergo with it, or you're doing but
you can, I mean, just by talkingabout it, sometimes, especially
to people that don't necessarilyshare your point of view. It's
been good. I mean, I think, youknow, there have been times
where you've told me an idea,and I'll say, what about this?
And, you know, that's not at allwhat I want to do, or you go,

(10:52):
Oh, yeah, okay. Oh, this is it.
This is a solution. You know, Ithink we can both do that. And
you know,

what, and I think something else that I've always
remembered from way, way backwhen I first met you, and we
were kind of talking aboutstory, and this was back when I
first met you in like 1990, orwhatever it was, and, and I
remember telling you this story,and it was something to the
effect of, I said, All right,Scott, what do you think of

(11:20):
this, like a guy is on a roof,and he's got a gun in his hand,
and he's gonna shoot himself,and he's all depressed. And then
next thing, you know, and I didit in that exact voice, by the
way, I said, the next thing, youknow, the door of the roof,
access opens up and a womancomes screaming, and she's

(11:40):
running. She's being chased by aguy with a gun. And then he
turns and he's gonna killhimself. And then he takes the
gun and he shoots the guy andsaves the girl. What do you
think of that? And you looked atme and you said, yeah. That's
not a story. To scene. It's ascene. It's not a story. And,

(12:03):
and I was like, no, no, but itbut it's cool, though, right?
And you're like, Yeah, it'sfine. It's interesting, but it's
not a story. And, and at thetime, I'm like, Ah, I thought,
Well, no, he's just shitting allover my idea. It's like, but no,
you're so right. It's like,that's not what makes it.
Interesting. That's not whatkeeps people compelled. Like,

(12:24):
that is a scene. And I thinkthat that helped me to kind of
say, Okay, well, I need to startlooking at the way that I come
up with an idea. And sometimeswhenever you'll pitch an idea to
me, now, I will say, Okay, Ithink you need this, right. And
it might be a thematic elementmight not even be something that
has to do with the plot at all,it might just be like, this

(12:46):
character needs to be this. Andyou might go Hmm, okay, maybe,
maybe not. But that's kind ofpart and parcel of the creative
process is really that, youknow, I always say, you know,
writing is rewriting, right. Sothat's, so I never look at it.
Like when I finish a script thatI, I say, Okay, I'm done. I was
looking at like, Okay, now, Ihave to go through the process

(13:09):
of, you know, rewriting andrefining and doing all that.
And, yeah, nobody likes to doit. But that's part of what

you used to get angry at me. When I'd be like,
Okay, I'm done. And then maybeI'd ask for notes or something
like that. But in Ray, whatnotes? And, but the thing is
that you, you have always beenlike, you can't just finish a
script and give it to a producerand how to do that. But it's
done. Like I felt that was done,you know, like, where, where's I

(13:37):
think that you? You know, likeyou say, you rewrite and rewrite
and rewrite. And I. I mean, thescript I'm working on now is
taking me three months longerthan it should but I think that
has a lot to do with a lot ofother things going on in my
life. But like I like I'll saythis. I'm not someone that
agonizes over script. So thefact that I'm like, three months
in it, and I haven't finished itis, you know, is not really, you

(14:01):
know,

no, I know, and I think that's part of the reason
why to that, I would be like,Well, what do you mean, you're
done? Because you would say,like, on a Thursday afternoon,
you'd say, I got this idea for apilot, what do you think? And I
go, that's great. And thenSunday, you're like, Okay, I
have this finished pilot. AndI'd say, Well, what do you mean,
you have a finished, you have afirst draft of a pilot, and
you're like, No, no, it's not.
And

I think sometimes I'd say like, I have the script.
And you go, Okay, I'll read it.
And then you read it. And I'mlike, well, it's already at the
producer. So

I don't really want your trip, you know,

I mean, I can't change. Yeah, it's like, I can't
change. Sometimes people getupset. They're like, Oh, well,
you should change this. I said,but I can't go back to the
producers and go, Hey, I'vedecided to reintroduce this
character, like, you know, like,once once the studio has, or
producers have it, then you'rekind of stuck.

It's a weird thing. I think it's one of those
things that if you do any kindof creative job, as a writer, or
really anything really whereyou're you really need creative
and constructive. criticism oryou need to put yourself out
there, and you need to havesomebody look at it. And, you
know, so many times, you know,people always say, right, which

(15:07):
you know, so then things thatyou write are really personal.
And then somebody says, Well,that would never happen. And
then someone goes, well, thatreally happened to me. And it's
like, yeah, I know. But, youknow, it has to feel a certain
way. And, and so we go throughthis, this, this process of, of
not wanting to have somebodylook at the stuff we have,
because it's like a, it's like apsychic wound to us whenever

(15:30):
they say it doesn't work. Andand I think that over time, you
just, you become kind of immuneto the knee jerk responses you
get from people. And what I wasgoing to say is that, you know,
I think what I sometimes hearyou do, and I do this as well
sometimes is, I might not betotally 100% on an on a part of

(15:56):
an idea, or a part of a scriptor a story. But I will defend it
because I want to see ifsomebody can prove me wrong, not
as a power play, but just tosee, like, let me test it. Like
if somebody can give me a betterversion of this or something
that works better. I'm thatcreative Darwinist guy, I don't

(16:17):
really have an ego about ifsomebody has a better idea. I
might be mad that they have abetter idea than me, because I'm
like, dammit, why didn't I thinkof that? But, but anyway, so?
Yeah.

Well, you know, I, it's interesting when you
say, right, what, you know,like, I don't know, I mean,
you've seen a lot of my writing.
And I think you know, me like, Idon't know, do I I don't feel I
put myself in my work to you ordo.

Yes, I do. But probably not in a way that you
think I think one of the thingsjust maybe go back a little bit.
To when you started you. I waskind of I don't know if I've
ever told you this, but I alwaysfelt like you had like the
classic comic book supervillainorigin story that I did. You
did? Yeah. And and correct me ifI'm wrong, but I remember you

(17:03):
telling me that, you know, youspent, you had asthma or you had
a, you had a illness when youwere young and asthma really,
really bad. Right. And it keptyou indoors when other kids were
out playing and doing things.
And so, you know, this alwaysfelt like the kind of the
supervillain kind of, you know,plotting and then, you know,
creating kind of take over theworld. Yeah. And so that's the

(17:24):
way I kind of, I always lookedat it, and not that you
ultimately use your powers forevil. But I was always curious
to see like, what you felt thatdid to the, you know, the
creative process. I know, formyself, you know, what my
childhood say? being troubled orwhatever, there was always a

(17:46):
part of me that was fantasizingabout a different version of the
world. And so to me, that kindof made more sense. Okay, well,
I was just trying to rewrite my,my life somehow, in a way or
solve problems that I was havingthrough stories. But for you, I
wonder, as you were sittingthere, on in the room, or
wherever, wherever you wereseeing other kids play, like how

(18:07):
did that affect your view, yourworldview at all? Really?

Well, I think in a way, I kind of felt like that,
you know, in a metaphorical way.
I had six brothers and sisters,and they would play in the
backyard, they play kickball, orfootball or, you know, baseball
or whatever, freeze tagged atit. So I was never able to play
the games. But I could watch thegames. I've like watched them.

(18:35):
And I watched everybody once youknow, usually if you're doing
Freeze Tag, you're like runningaway from the person or like, if
you're the person who's likeswinging the bat, your goal is
to swing the bat and thepitchers goal is to try to make
sure that you don't get to hitthe ball. So but when you're up,
you know, in the third floor, inthe attic, looking down, you see

(18:56):
everything. And so I think that,you know, one could maybe make
the argument that, you know, Ilearned to look at everything
instead of experiencing whatmaybe it is that I was looking
at. So you know, Jim Shooteralways writes about the person
with these incredible powersthat lose themselves completely

(19:20):
in their powers. And it's thestruggle to come back to
humanity like, you know,beyonders a perfect example.
Chris Claremont was alwaysswapping genders. You have, you
know, genders ages that it'slike this as if nobody could be
comfortable in their own body intheir own identity. Fabian,

(19:40):
nice, nice Isa. It was alwaysabout the Father killing the son
and their son killing the fatherwas always but oddly enough, I
think that most of the comicbooks that I write are all
focused on these damagedindividuals who their damage is
what is essentially thesuperpower that they use to win.

(20:04):
Right? And if that doesn't soundlike me from 30,000 feet, you
know, like, no, it

kind of does, because I, you know, another way
of saying that, is that saidthis to me a million times, I
mean, it's really writing fromcharacter, right? So anytime
that a character makes adecision for you that it's
really based on all of thesethings, right? That's the I
think the the key kernel of it.
I've always also kind of seenyou as somebody, I think one of

(20:32):
your trademarks. I think if wecan call it that is you have
this kind of, it's notschmaltzy, but it's like you
have this good old fashioned allAmerican kind of ideal about
what a superhero should be.
Because I know, you know, in thepast, the comic book industry

(20:53):
became really, really cynical.
And and I always remember youkind of bristling against that
you're always like, No, I, youknow, I don't like necessarily
the idea of superheroes that areanti heroes per se, or that they
have a cynical view of crime orvillainy or the world. You like
the purity have someone likeSuperman or, or the Titans or X
Men where, you know, they havethis, this ultimate goal that

(21:17):
they're fighting for. And thatis the thing that is the most
important, and their own damagegets in the way of that. But I
think that was always somethingthat I felt was a really strong,
like, if you came up with anidea, my version would be the
dark, kind of, you know, edgyindie version that no one would
ever, ever do. And yours wasalways the more like, no, no,

(21:40):
no, it's, this is the this isthe heroic story. This is the
way you go. I don't know, do youfeel like that you still feel
that way? Or do you feel likeI'm,

like, even like, when you look at a book like Red
Hood? When I was at Marvel, andit was at the height of my
abilities, they came and said,Do you want to do Electra? Like,
do I want to write about anassassin? No, like, and there's
like, do you want to write youknow, Punisher, Mike now is the
kind of killing people becausehe felt bad. But then when I was

(22:12):
at DC, and they said, Do youwant to write Red Hood? I said,
Yeah, if I can redeem him, like,that's my, that's what I find
interesting. Like, to me hisconflict was about all the
horrible things he had done, itwas about how he would come to
feel bad about the things thathe had done, and then work

(22:33):
towards being a better person.
So I would never, you know, Imean, the Red Hood that was
around before I got there wasjust angry red hood, who was
killing people and blamingBatman and rubbing Batman's face
in the past, he was a murderer.
And to me, like, none of thatwas interesting. What is
interesting was a guy who washad gone through hell. And now

(22:55):
he decided he was going to tryto come back from Yeah, and I
think

I think the fans have the book that really
resonated with them, because Iknow you've had fan a fan base
for the different books you'vewritten, but I, I do seem to
recall, it's like, it seemedlike the Red Hood fans you had
were pretty intense.

You know, I think that's true. But I also always
wonder like, how much anytimeyou have a book, I guess, unless
it's a crater on book, youwonder how much of that is like,
you know, if they got a Kevinfrom the office to write the Red
Hood, if people there'd still belike this legion of Red Hood
fans who love I mean, I don'tknow, it's interesting, too.

I mean, as a comic book fan, I know, the really
super nerdy part of me thatwould be reading a book, and
then the writer would maybe getbehind because or the artist was
behind whatever it was, and thenall of a sudden, a different
writers taking over to episodetwo issues. And I'd be pissed
off, because I wanted the guywriting it. Yeah,

you know, yeah.
See, I always enjoyed, I alwaysenjoyed, you know, I, you know,
it's funny when you're on abook, like I was, I'd written
that X Men for I know, nearlyseven years or something. And
before me, Chris had written for16. And Peter, David had written
Hulk for 18, or whatever. And Ialways said, and you probably
remember using at the time,like, I didn't want to be that

(24:16):
guy that you wheel away from thetypewriter, right? Remember,
typewriter that you were awayfrom the typewriter, like, I
didn't want to come to the endof the stories I could write and
have to, you know, I've toldthem all and yet, I still want
to stick because this is mybook. Like I didn't want to ever
be in that position. Yeah. Andso and when you're in the middle

(24:37):
of it, you're like, I don't Idon't want somebody to come in
and tell two wishes on my story.
But when you're the guy who hasto go and until two issues and
somebody's story, and it's kindof fun. Well, yeah, also like to
me like writing it was alwaysvery, I mean, reading it, like,
I remember, I don't know if youremember this. There's a time in

(24:58):
the 70s where the The issuewasn't done. And it would end
with, you know, Captain Americaabout to leap into battle
against Dr. Doom. And then thenext issue would come out and
you'd see cap like leaping in tobattle against Dr. Doom. And
then it was like, the first timecat battle Dr. Doom and that was

(25:18):
a, you know, book from the 60s,it was just the whole issue. And
then at the end, it's like,Okay, now we're gonna fight. And
it's like, you know, so theyjust did these reprints, because
they couldn't get the books toship on time. And to me, like, I
was thrilled by that now. Imean, it tried to do that
nowadays and people, you know,Yeah, crazy. But I

wonder, you maybe just be diplomatic about this.
Given that you have such a kindof long love affair with comic
books and comic book industryand all that, but what do you
how do you see the state of thecomic book industry now
currently as it is?

Well, I mean, it's a it's a bunch of different
questions, because I'll tell youthat I'm probably one of the few
people that think that comicbooks can make a comeback to
what they were in the 90s. Okay,everybody thinks like, well, you
know, no, the books will neversell like that, and dah, dah,
dah. But I also think that therewas so much going on in the 90s.

(26:17):
And we were all like, in fiercecompetition with each other. And
you know, if Age of Apocalypsehad and Savior die, then dammit,
Superman is going to die. And ifSuperman is going to die, then
Batman is gonna have his backbroken a Batman as it back
broken, thin Green Lantern isgoing to become a intergalactic
mass murderer, you know, likethe right, there's just this
competition that within thecompany, you had it. I mean,

(26:40):
that's why, you know, a trueApocalypse beget the Spider Man
Clone Saga, you know, it's likeeverybody wanted to kick
everybody else's asked. And nowit's not like that, like, you
know, you just look in, it'slike, Jeff, John says his five,
Scott Snyder has his five dumbBrian Bendis, SS five dumb and,
you know, if none of them haveknown that characters meet,
that's totally fine with all ofthem. Whereas like, with us, it

(27:02):
was, you know, we're gonna, youknow,

Oh, yeah. And, I guess in a way that kind of
feeds into the, and thecrossover, the crossovers, that,
you know, events that used tobe, you know, once a year or
once every couple years orsomething, and then became like,
once a quarter or just ongoingand I always hated those myself,

(27:25):
because I felt like you'reinterrupting my book, the book
I'm reading, I don't want to beinvolved in all your other
nonsense. In this crossoverevent, I want to just read what
Green Arrow was doing, you know,for the next X amount of issues.
But the truth is, I'm in theminority there. I mean, people

(27:47):
love, love, love these bigcrossover events. And the
problem with those is thatyou're having to kind of outdo
and outdo and outdo, and reboot,and reboot and reboot. And I
think that's where I've, Ithink, where I have the hardest
time with the mainstream kind ofMarvel DC Comics these days is,

(28:08):
is that I, I don't know what itis that's happening, I don't get
a sense of, I don't get thisfeeling that I can just jump in,
and and start reading because Ifeel like they've changed so
much, and it keeps gettingchanged. And then when you were
starting out, I mean,

I'd taken over Alpha Flight in a bake sale,
which you know, as you know, iswhen they say, oh, we need a
writer for Alpha Flight, andinstead of saying, Hey, Scott,
do you want to read it, they go,they let everybody know. And
then they have like six pitches.
And one of those pitches was bya guy named Rob tocar, and spam
Larson. And at the time, AlphaPhi had 16 characters, which I

(28:53):
thought was too much. And sothey wanted the 16 characters,
and maybe even a few more. Andwhen I took over, I said, I
think there should be fivecharacters, I want to, you know,
there's 22 pages in the book,five characters, that's what two
pages, four pages each, like, Iwant to use that time to really
delve in the characters. Andthen I did three issues. And
then we need an inventory story.

(29:16):
So we use the Norstar story. Andthen Bobby Chase, who was my
editor, was assigned to take hersuccess from spirit of engines
with Ghost Rider, and to do thiswhole spirit of engine science.
So suddenly, she had eight booksthat she had to take care of.
And my book was given to robtocar, who was the editor. So

(29:39):
Rob tocar, was like, as soon ashe got in the editor to ask,
he's like, I think we should useall 16 characters. And I was
like, I don't want to use 16cards. I want to use five care.
I want to use the pitch that Igave. And so but I was also
starting out so I was trying toplease Him. When you're pitching
stories for somebody that hasother stories in their head
already. It's almost you know,simple Awesome, yeah simpler.

(30:01):
With a producer, you do it allthe time. You're like, hey, what
about this, and they have thisidea. So in that time, I started
writing the X Men every, I waswriting an issue every two weeks
between uncanny and X Men, justas it fell in. And then I was at
the office dropping off mylatest issue the X Men, and Rob

(30:22):
brings me into his office. Andhe says, This isn't working out,
I have to let you go. And thenhe got a writer who wanted to do
exactly what he wanted to do. Soit was great. But people always
said to me at the time was like,did you get fired? I go, Well,
if I got fired, but I got the XMen as a result of being fired,
then it was the best punishment.
Anybody could ask for.

Early on starting out, when you started working
for Marvel, it was eight pagestories, right? It was, you
know, you were having to try andfind a way to tell interesting
stories with characters thatreally no one was paying
attention to. Because if you didsomething with like a major
character, guaranteed, someonewould say, No, no,

no, yeah, editors would be like, No, you can't
have Daredevil to see again, foreight pages. So, but they didn't
care about Shamrock. They didn'tcare about Lockitron. They
didn't care about you know, aLagoa or a gala. Sorry. And so
those were the characters that Itook, because it made it easier
for the editor, because theeditor didn't have to go around

(31:23):
and get a sign off fromdaredevils editor, and you'd
have to go get a sign off ofWolverines editor. So I just
gave him the ability to, infact, in the pitch, I said, I
want to do the global villageseries, and he's like, what's
that? I said, all the charactersfrom Contest of Champions. So

So kinda like the animal Olympics of, of Marvel,
is that it was at I don't knowwhether you don't know what an
animal Olympics is where all ofthe Hanna Barbera cartoon?

Yeah, yeah, it's like that. That's what the
Contest of Champions was. But,you know, it's funny, because
like, I remember when I forgetwho it was, I shouldn't say
remember, it's I forget who itwas. But like, they, you know,
like, we've seen TV ratings gofrom like, you know, 60 million
people who watched the ending ofmash to, you know, oh, look, 5

(32:19):
million people watched willinggrace. Reunion, and it's a hit,
we're bringing it back to theseries, because 4 million
people, you know, where's at thetime, 4 million people is like,
you know, Captain Kangaroo on aSaturday morning or something.

And that was and that just to interject that
that's kind of what happened inthe comic book world, too. Yes.
But

it was easy for people to, I don't wanna say
bifurcate say that the radio,somebody went on the air and
said, We're never going to seeshows with 17 million people
watching it again, that that dayis gone. We're you know, we're
targeting audiences, we'renarrow, narrow casting instead
of broadcasting. But then squidgames comes around, or, you

(33:04):
know, Game of Thrones comesaround or so. And then suddenly,
you know, the audience that issupposedly everywhere else, but
watching TV will show up becausethey want to see something
exciting. And I think theproblem with comic books is that
those examples I was givenbefore, and I don't know if
they're exactly the bestexamples, but age of authors was

(33:24):
what happens when one man wasnever born. And this man
happened to be like the MartinLuther King of comic books, how
many other lives were affected?
You know, Superman dies, Batmanhad his back broken Green
Lantern, you know, all thesethings. But they were all
character centric, they camestrictly 100% from the
character. And then, over thetime, in this effort to feed

(33:44):
this beast of crossovers, itjust became like, Oh, we're
gonna do a civil war. But withsuperheroes, or no more mutants,
Scarlet Witch is going to becomea mass murderer. It's like,
wait, what you know, like, like,we're not, we're not impact to
remember in the first few pagesof no more mutants. scroller
which is going crazy. AndProfessor X gathers the rest of

(34:07):
the other superheroes. And he'slike, we have to kill her
because that's the only way andI'm thinking, okay, Professor X
is the last guy that would everkill her. And he would use every
R, every trick in his arsenal,every mutant to stand by this
person, like that's it. So. Sothe thing is, is that what
writers started to do was, Iwant to tell a story, what

(34:28):
characters can I use to behavein this way to tell that story?
And to me, that's where we lostour way in comic books has now
it's even like, Oh, we're gonnado a reboot or something. So
we're going to change this majorthing. And we're gonna have a
bunch of people being presentedas other people. And when you do
that, you're just saying thatokay, the characters, which is

(34:49):
what you signed on for the last20 years of their year or
whatever, suddenly thosecharacters aren't those
characters anymore. They're newcharacters with old characters.
names, you know, and secretidentities and they look the
same. Maybe they change yourcostume. But, you know, we're
moving away from characters andmoving towards stories that we
plug characters into. And Ithink that's where we've gone

(35:10):
wrong. And I think that, youknow, it's like Harry Potter,
like, you know, if you toldsomebody 15 years ago that the
number one book in the world wasgoing to be about a bunch of
teenage magicians that kids weregoing to read, and oh, each book
was going to be 550 pages longpeople would be like, Get out of
here. No, kids don't read. Yeah,or you can. And so. So I do

(35:32):
think that if we could get backto the point of like, telling
stories about characters,because really, if you look at
the Marvel, Marvel movies, Idon't know movies, you'd watch
movies sometimes since like, youonly need two or three good
scenes about the characters. Andthen people go, Oh, that was a
great movie. You know? Whatabout this? That didn't make any
sense? Yeah, but I really likethat guy. So cool. You know. And

(35:53):
so I think that that's what isdriving audiences to movies. But
I also think that you know, likeHarry Potter, like, I do think
that there's a way to rejuvenatethe comic book business, but I
don't necessarily think anyonewill do it. So yeah, no, I so I
get to be right. And no one canprove me wrong at the same time.
So, you know,

as somebody who loves the kind of art form and
the medium of visual, you know,sequential art and graphic
novels and comic books and thecharacters and you know, I am
not immune to that either. Iremember liking the book, the
question, I was a big Vic sagefan. I particularly liked any

(36:37):
O'Neal's book of the question.
And then somewhere along theline, of course, the book was
cancelled at some point orfinished its run and then didn't
hear much about the character atall. And the next thing, you
know, it's the characters beingrebooted now to a woman. And I
had no problem with a womancharacter being the question, it

(37:01):
was more like, no, no, I, I likethe sage. I want to say that,
you know, so it wasn't so mucha, you know, my response to it,
my kind of knee jerk responsewas more that, hey, you know, I
like this character. I don'twant this character to be a
different person. There is this,this nostalgia we have. So when
somebody screws with that you'regetting, you're thinking, I

(37:24):
don't know, if I, if that's whatI, I don't know if I like that.
But that's, you know,

getting, you know, it's interesting is that
when you like, in the old days,when we're writing, reading
whole books, you know, you know,Frank Miller came by and just
did Batman Year One, you know,he didn't take everything Batman
and throw it out. He didn'tchange it to, you know, Wayne,
Bruce Herman or something, hejust took the character and, you
know, and same thing with, youknow, him and Dave, message le

(37:53):
on Daredevil, you know, it'slike, you just read it, and also
in your back, and you're tellingthe story, I'm it's like, you
know, they were just, it waslike, how can you write the best
story? You can write with thesecharacters? You know, and, you
know, and it's like, they didn'thave to cancel everything and
start a year. Well, I mean,like, you want to see Batman
Year One, even though it was,you know, I believe it wasn't.

(38:15):
I'm pretty sure it was not itsown series.

In May, I don't think it was, I think it was,
was all, you know,

JM DeMatteis when he did the hunt for graven. I
mean, you couldn't, you couldnot, could not seek that out and
find out what's happening weekto week. But somewhere along the
line, like, you know, man,marketing area and lost any
faith in stories, being able toattract, like, in a way, like
marketing should be about Oh, myGod, this is great. Sorry, let's

(38:43):
go out and tell everybody. Yeah,instead of like, Hey, everybody,
come in here. Look, we're goingto tell you a story.

Yeah. Look at this cool thing we're going to do
this month. And yeah, and Ithink that's, I think that's
true. Because, you know,something I remember you saying
to me years ago, working on abook, maybe you're working on a
couple of two, three books, andyou have an editor that wants
that has a different vision, oris hung up on something and then
wants this little thing changed,which then means you having to

(39:09):
rewrite the script, and then theartist have to make any changes.
And you, you always have thisview of it, that we'll just
we'll, we'll do that next month,like we can just do we just keep
going because we shouldn't stopthe boat. Because of one little
tiny thing, let's just continueto trust that the story is going

(39:30):
to evolve and it's going to workitself out as opposed to
everything being about this onemoment in time. And and I think
that says something about the,the way that whole corporate
structure, you know, looks atthings it's really not about
story. It's really not aboutanything other than you know,

(39:51):
just market share and and eventhough it's a small sliver of
the bigger, the bigger entitythat owns a lot of these things
owned by big Which corporations,it does seem like you just would
want them to let these thingsbreathe, and they don't. And I
think that's where I would seepeople who would write a bunch

(40:13):
of books for Marvel or DC andtheir, their kind of brand in a
way it's getting watered downbecause they're being pulled in
too many directions. And thenthey put a book out, like an
indie book on image or, orsomething. And you're like, wow,
because they're now on chainedin a way, and able to do things
that are interesting, and don'thave to kind of conform to this

(40:37):
concern about like, oh, no, wecan't do that. Or, oh, no, this
isn't gonna be a good thing, orI don't know, I think we're
getting a little bit away fromthe

crowd. I do think that people seed, you know, I
think corporations see thingslike, you know, when we were
younger, you had Saturdaymorning TV shows that was like,
you know, and then when, whenthey would launch a season,
they'd have a special on Friday,and they'd show you know, like
HR Puffin stuff. You know,talking about Fred Flintstone,
you're like, oh my god, this isamazing. It's like, like, what I

(41:06):
can't wait for him. And then youknow, and all three networks at
the same time, so it was likethis huge, you know, see have
like new content every whateverseason was in blah, blah. But
then Nickelodeon start doingcartoons 24/7 And then the
network's really, we're not,we're not in that business

(41:27):
anymore. Like, they do that. Sowell. Why should we be doing it?
Yeah. Like the independent filmsis of like, I love Inherit the
Wind. And I love the verdict byand To Kill a Mockingbird. Like,
I love courtroom dramas. But,you know, once Matlock has done,
you know, 500 episodes ofgarbage drama, or, you know, la

(41:48):
law, like try to find acourtroom drama movie. Now, it's
like, right, why would you tryto squeeze everyone drama into
two hours, you know, but youknow, what's funny, too, is
like, when I was did stand up,people would always come up to
me after the show, and they go,you know, you want to be you
want something to be funny. Youcome to my place, you put a
camera in my where I work, andoh my god, the people there.

(42:09):
They're so crazy. And I wouldoften think like who fuck wants
to watch you and your friends atwork? Like who the hell would
ever do that? But now try tofind a profession that doesn't
have or didn't have at least astab at a reality show. Right?
Oh, the tattoo parlor the youknow, you know, I mean, what

(42:31):
could be more boring than makingdinner at night, but now
suddenly, you know, there'slike, 10s Chef shows and they're
all fighting with each other.
And you know, Oh, yeah. Youknow, go to the gong show. might
have had some talent every oncein a while. But like now, the X
Factor and America's Got Talentlike everything else. Suddenly

(42:52):
there's He's huge.

Now it's America's Got Talent extreme now you can

add audiences to that would be something

Well, yeah, I, I find it. It's exhausting. And I
think that, you know, whatbecomes entertainment for people
evolves. I mean, even theyounger generation, they can sit
and watch the streamers onTwitch, just play video games.
And this is entertainment forthem. And they and when I asked,

(43:25):
I said, Well, you know, I'm fromthat generation where watching
somebody else play a video gamereminds me of like being in the
laundromat waiting for the guyto get off the Pac Man Machine
because I'm like, I want toplay. It's my turn. Yeah, my
quarters are up. Yeah, let's,let's, let's get going so I can
play. So the idea of watchingsomebody else play is just I
don't I don't understand it.
Yeah, but this is entertainment.

(43:48):
And when you ask they, they say,oh, no, it's like watching
football. Oh, okay. Well, youknow, they look at it as a
sporting event because there'seSports and what have you, but I
just don't you know, and it'sthis is they're not alone. This
millions of people they lovethat and to me, I can't get my

(44:08):
head around it. But But thenagain, I go down the YouTube
rabbit holes, just like anyoneelse does. In fact, there was a
while there I was I was gettingobsessed with watching cleaning
videos where people would likeclean a dirty car or a really
and and there's something or adirty carpets when you see

(44:32):
somebody just going through theprocess of just cleaning, filthy
dirty carpet with like theshampoo and

and it's so much easier with a box of Kleenex
next. No, but

they're strangely soothing and satisfying which,
who would have thought that ifyou would have told me that 10
years ago, you know what you'regoing to like Frank, you can
like to sit and watch carpetcleaning videos on YouTube. I'll
be like, forget you. I'm notdoing that. But even now there's
there's a A YouTube channel Iwatch that I'm telling everybody
about. It's called the drain onblockers. And it's a show or

(45:08):
it's a it's a YouTube channel.
It's based in Liverpool. Andit's just these guys that are
kind of like the equivalent of aroto rooter man in the America.
But in Britain they have theirdrain systems are different. And
so they use high powered waterjets to clear sewage blockage
that comes from and we have amanhole here and it's in the

(45:29):
middle of your street and it's abig manhole cover and then you
climb down into the sewer.
There, their manholes aresmaller and they're on your
property. And they pull the thelids off of those, and it's just
a horror show. You know what'sgoing on. And yet these guys go
there. Do it. Clean it. And theywhistle while they're doing it.

(45:51):
Like they're the most pleasantguys ever. It's the most
disgusting job. You're so happy.
You can't smell it. But I can'tget enough of that. I just love
it. So satisfying. PimplePopper? Yeah, it's kind of like
that. Anyways,

Bert from Mary Poppins.

Yeah, yeah, well, it's it's much dirtier than a
chimney sweep. So I'll tell you.
But so let me ask you this. Youknow, one of the things that
I've always been in awe of youis your ability to not have an
ego appoint. Now that to me, isnot having an ego about helping
people. You know, wheresometimes you, you think, Well,

(46:33):
I don't want to help thisperson, because I feel like
somehow, maybe they'll becomemore successful than me. Or
maybe they'll, they'll take jobsaway from me or, and you've just
never ever had that. And you'venever even if it's somebody that
is, has no, no in in the comic,industry, or film or what have

(46:54):
you. You've always been that guythat said, Hey, let me help you
out. And without any sense ofego about it. And it's such a
rare thing. I mean, I don't knowif you understand how rare that
really is, do you have thequality? Do I I'm not the same
as you. I definitely find myselfhelping people mentoring people

(47:14):
as much as I can. But there is apart of me that feels like,
wait, wait, wait, I need to savesomething for myself, you know,
in terms of opportunities, andwhat have you. So there is some
of that insecurity, but you justnever had that. I mean, I can
tell you, I worked at a comicbookstore, you came for a
signing, I told you, I wanted tobe a writer, I was like 19 or

(47:35):
20. You contacted me a few dayslater and asked me if I had
ideas. You know, she come upwith any ideas. And I was like,
what? This guy actually pickedup the phone and, you know, did
what he said he was going to do?
And from there. You know, Ithink you had to have seen

(47:56):
something from somebody, youknow where for me that they told
you that I was serious aboutwanting to do something in the
creative field writing to thepoint where when I tell people,
I say, Well, Scott Lobdellinvited me to New York to visit
him, and then walked me into theMarvel offices, and walked down,

(48:17):
like all of the editors, doors,office doors, and said, Hey,
this is Frank, Hannah, youshould meet him. Who does that?
I don't know, you, and you'veprobably done it for other
people. And that's the point islike, I don't feel like I'm
special. I feel like you dothis. And everybody's special?

(48:38):
Well, anyway, I've alwaysremembered that. And although it
never launched my comic bookcareer, point is you weren't
saying, hire this guy and payhim ridiculous amounts of money
to do a job he doesn't know howto do. You were saying, here is
this guy, meet him and talk tohim. And really, it's yours to
fuck up at that point. Like ifyou, you can bring it to the

(49:00):
party, but like you have to, youhave to show something else. And

I've always said to people I can do is open the
door. What happens when you'rein the door is, you know, is
what you can do. Or, you know,I'll say this is that when I I
used to get a ride toPoughkeepsie and I would stay at
my brother in law's house, hisapartment, and I would go
through his cushions for change.
And if I got like sick, who's aplumber, so he's had lots of

(49:26):
change. So if I had $6 and meantthat when I went down to Marvel
on the train, I wouldn't haveenough money to take the subway
and eat. So if I could, if I hadlike that little change, then I
could like walk all the way toMarvel and buy a chocolate milk
and buy something else and makemy way back. So I mean, I was

(49:46):
always appreciative of theprocess, always aware of the
process that I was goingthrough. And so I think and and
and exist I mean it still existsto this day. It's been over Oh
almost 40 years later, but I cantell that people I always
remember, I can remember to thisday, what it feels like to be on

(50:06):
the couch, looking for change,right. And, and so I just always
felt that, like, you know, I hadpeople helped me over the years,
I just always feel that I shouldhelp.

I think you have I mean, I've noticed you, when you
think about the careers you'veprobably launched of people that
have, that you found andchampioned. That's no small list
of people. And also, I will say,like I, you know, I think you
also have a sense of where youcame from, and also the people

(50:40):
that came before you. Because Iremember one time I we were down
in San Diego, or maybe I don'tknow where, where it was, but it
was during a big convention. Andthere was a comic book legend.
And I almost don't want to sayhis name just because let's just
assume he's a comic book legend.
And you had said to me, Frank,I'm going to give you some

(51:03):
money, and I want you to go buythis book. And I want you to
tell so and so exactly how muchhis work means to you. And I'm
like, Why? Because I'm thinkinghe's a legend. What does he
need? But no, he, he's a legendthat people have forgotten or
really haven't, aren't givinghim the due he probably
deserves. And so you were there.

(51:26):
And you did that? It's like akindness. And it's not like
phony because it's what that guydid and achieved in his life
isn't isn't some small thing,you know, it. He, I just always
kind of thought that was like,kind of the sweetest thing. But
I also kind of felt like, that'sthe kind of guy Scott is God is
the guy that's like, yeah, youknow, what that guy really

(51:51):
deserves, deserves someattention. And for and you never
said and tell him? It was me?
Or, you know, it was always donethat

people come back to me, they go, okay. I didn't
know what I don't know, keepyour book assigned to you. Like
you should have a book on yourshelf.

With this guy.
Yeah. Yeah, no, that's great.
So, so having said all that,like one of the things, like if,
if you had advice like thisassume in the comic book world,
because that, you know, eventhough that's all changed now,
but if somebody wants to be Iknow, when it comes to art,
people always know that, youknow, you, you have to do a
certain amount of pages ofsequential art. And then you

(52:30):
have to go and have somebodykind of, you know, go over that
and, and have somebody reviewyour work and give you, you
know, their two cents aboutcomposition and all that. But as
a writer, and somebody wants towrite comic books, what's your
advice to those people? Now?

I don't know, honest to God, like, I think
it's like, 90,000% easier tobreak into comics than it ever
was. Right? You know, there's atime when I was writing the X
Men like where, you know, youknew everybody who was in comic
books. You know, I knew JohnByrne, I knew, you know, Walt
Simon Sanu. Fabian, I knew PeterDavid, you know, you knew, even

(53:11):
if you didn't know them, asfriends who knew them, but now
it's like, you know, every dayyou open up X Men booking like,
Who is this guy? Yeah, it was aFedEx guy who came to the drop
off at FedEx, and like, Hey, youshould write you there. But
like, if you right here on thiswall, out of these four, comic
books, three of them are alldone by artists that I met, you

(53:36):
know, on the internet, orthrough Instagram, or, you know,
whatever. And so, you know, itused to be the only way you
could be seen was if you got ajob at Marvel or DC. And the
only way to get a job at Marveland DC was if you had already
worked at Marvel, or DC, and soright, very hard. Whereas now, I
mean, like, if you, you know,I'll tell you, if I was trying
to break in today, I would notwait around for Marvel or DC.

(53:59):
And I also kind of thing, Imean, I don't know what the
money is, like, now. But therewas a time that it could change
your life. I kind of feel nowthat like, you know, what, if I
created my own stuff, and thatgot me the attention of Marvel
and DC, I'd be like, Wow, I'mdoing fine on Marvel. You know,
it's almost like where do youknow,

because I think the conventional wisdom, say
1015 years ago, was okay, I'mgoing to work for Marvel DC
create a name for myself, I'mone of their books, and then I'm
going to go off and do what Iwant to do independently and
reap those benefits because thenI can own a property then maybe
Hollywood will come calling andthey will, you know, they'll buy
an idea from me or want to makea movie out of one of my books.

(54:44):
But now, you know, it's almostthe opposite can be true. I
think I've always wished I wasmore of an artist because you
know, the art is always thehardest thing because a writer
can write a script quickly. Butyou can't rush the art the art
just takes however long it takes

and and yet nowadays We're at a place where,
you know, like, you know, I seethe cover of a comic book, a
mainstream comic book. And I'mlike, it looks like art samples
from, you know, when I wasbreaking? Like, I mean, like
you, you know that I can sketchright, and then I can even draw.
But, I mean, if I were startingnow, I would probably, I think I

(55:21):
could draw a comic book, I couldbe a writer, artist, you know,
like, so it's weird, but I thinkI was just

really trying to get a sense of, of, you've got
this creative process for you.
And, and we've kind of kind ofdiscussed that it kind of comes
from character, everything comesfrom character, I think that's
your, your worldview is reallythat. It's an optimistic
worldview. It's not, it's not acynical one, it's that you kind
of see that the world can bethis better place, or that, you

(55:49):
know, people can be better. AndI think that's something that
informs the way you come up withyour ideas. But in terms of the
creativity of it all. Like, ifsomebody has an idea, like
what's if somebody comes up withan idea, like, what do you?
What's your advice to them?

Well, you know, there's that old saying, I
learned early on that writerswrite, you know, like you, you
know, when somebody tells me,I'm a writer, and I have this
idea, and it's like, okay, well,then you have an idea that's
different from being a writer, awriter, writes the idea, a
writer will write theirchapters, so they'll write a
plot, and if they don't know howto write a combo plot, though,
look it up or though, you know,find some way to accomplish

(56:29):
convention and like to see acopy or though, you know, pick
up a autobiography from a comicbook writer and look at samples
of that, or, you know, like, Imean, it's not hard to get, it's
not hard to get an Allen, I'mprobably not hard to get as hell
Adele, plot or script if youlooked right, hard enough. So I

(56:50):
think it's, you know, it's amatter of doing it, and then
often you won't get paid atfirst, but then you start to,
well, it

does seem it does seem like, you know, we are in a
information age where, you know,finding a plot in 1975 are
possible, right? But now, yeah,you can you can find any of
these things. So really, it's,it's almost like you're saying,
forget about the creativeprocess so much. It's like, do

(57:21):
you have the wherewithal to goand use what's available to you
out there?

Well, you know, it's funny, you said, because I,
you know, like, sometimes I'llwork with an artist and the
artist will be late and late andlate, and then they go, Well,
it's because I'm aperfectionist. I'm a
perfectionist. It's very, it'sreally hard to be an artist when
you're a perfectionist. And Iwas like, well, perfection,
being part of being perfect ismeeting your deadline. Yeah.

(57:45):
Perfect and not. Right, meet,you're done. And so similarly, I
think that, you know, like, theidea that creativity, and
professionalism or wherewithal,I think you just said, the idea
that creativity and wherewithalare separate things is not the
case. I don't think you know,and I think that people make the

(58:07):
mistake, that it is, okay.

Well, that's okay.
So just to interject, there ismy hypothesis here. And I think
you're saying kind of the samething. Creativity is problem
solving. That's all it is. Andso when somebody tells me that
they're not creative, my firstresponse to them as well, do you
know how to solve a problem? Andthey'll say, Yes. And I said,
you solve problems in your job?

(58:32):
Yes, I'm like, well, then that'screative. And they don't
necessarily see it that way.
Because they look at it, like nocreative is fun and creative is
this. But the fact of the matteris, no matter what you're doing,
you have to find a way to solvethe problem. And so the idea of
being creative and being andhaving the wherewithal and the
tremendous drive it takes, it'smaybe all, like you say,

(58:53):
interconnected, which I don'tknow if I ever kind of looked at
it that way. But it'sinteresting, it's all part of
the same set the same thing,like if you want it bad enough,
you're going to do it. Becausethere's nothing worse to me. And
I know people in my life rightnow currently, that have, they
have like this, they pitch anidea to me. And they say, I have
this idea for a movie, and youhear it, and you're like, that

(59:15):
is amazing. Not only is it youknow, commercial, but it's of
the moment, it's all of thethings that it should be. And
you do not have the feeling thatthe person will ever actually
write this thing. And it's sofrustrating because it's their

(59:36):
idea. You don't want to take itfrom them, but you really want
them to succeed and do it andyou just kind of think it's not
going to happen because I mean,how hard is it to come up with
an idea that that does hit allthose notes like you can try and
try and try and they come everyonce in a while. But to see
somebody not have thewherewithal to actually follow
through is very frustrating, atleast just for me. I don't know

what to say.
People will say to me all thetime they go, Well, God, you're
a writer, that must be socompetitive. I said, you know,
it's not really as competitiveas you think. Cuz if you take
100 people, and they all want tobe a writer, out of those 150 of
them will never put pen topaper. Maybe another 10 of them

(01:00:19):
have a great idea, but don'tknow how to write it, they'll
write like a 600 page script,you know, is under their bed,
and they think, Oh, just goingto add more pages, and it'll
make sense, you know, or theyjust don't understand the
mechanics of an ACC break. And,you know, or, you know, another
10, well write it and get itdone. And it's not good enough,

(01:00:44):
but they won't go to a seconddraft or whatever. So by the
time you get down to it, you'renot one in 100, you're one in
six, right? You know, or you're,you know, you might even be one
in three, because you have agreat idea that. So I think the
idea is, is that,

Frank Hannah (01:01:04):
I think another way of saying that is is is like
professional golf, for example,when you think about these guys
that play and you see them onthe weekend, and you see them
playing, they're not the top 20%of golfers. They're like the top
one half of 1% of golfers. Okay,so what you're kind of saying

(01:01:27):
is, you know, and I think yousaid this to me years ago,
you're like, Oh, the fact thatyou just finished a script, like
puts you like way up in terms ofpercentages in terms of people
that would never, ever finish ascript. And I think which

Scott Lobdell (01:01:41):
also goes to your point about, like, why I help
people, like if somebody haswritten a script, and they type
fade in, fade out, and it'saround 110 pages, then I think
that they deserve at least, youknow,

yeah, are reading and, you know, and then, you
know, obviously, the steps youtake after that, you know,
you're gauging this person'scommitment to it.

Yeah, certainly, just having just having written
hundreds of pages, doesn't mean

no, because I know people who, that continue to
write crap. And over and over,and, you know, they're very
prolific, but they never get anybetter, because they never are
actually, you think it wouldjust get better as just a matter
of course, by doing it over andover and over again, but they

(01:02:28):
don't and, and, like, you wish,you could write as many scripts
as they do a year, but they'renot good. And so trying to find
that balance, where somebody iswilling to do that, and also
willing to be a little selfreflective and say, Okay, I'm
not gonna, you know, you have tounhook the critic a little bit
to get creative, so that you cankind of see what ideas are out

(01:02:49):
there underneath all of that.
But at some point, you have tobe willing to look at your work
and say, This is shit. And I amgoing to need to throw out this
entire act and have to,

as somebody who has been involved with comic
books for years, it's like, youknow, you get guys who show you
their art, and they're amazing.
And sometimes they don't evenknow how amazing they are. And
you tell them how amazing theyare. And they think your bones
smoke. But then you get otherpeople who you you know, they
say, Oh, you look at this. Andyou're you're, you're like,
holy, like, I don't know whereto start to comment on it. But

(01:03:24):
like, how can you look at it asthe actual person who drew it?
Right? And not understand that,like, one eye is four times the
size of right, you know, theguy's head or something? Like,
how do you know, but I thinkthat happens a lot with writers
too. Like, you know, they don'tand that's when you can see it,
that you can visibly see it. Soto write a story that somebody

(01:03:45):
has to, like, actively engage into read for an hour and a half,
two hours of the script. I knowit's just

well, I've often said not having any self esteem
is a certain kind of drive. Buthaving too much self esteem,
which sometimes is, you know,

wow, it's still a tribe. It's just a drive. Yeah.

But anyway, so listen, you've given me

quite a great amount of time. So let's say too
much,

too much. I bet I do feel like there's many, many
more things we could be talkingabout.

Let's talk about it again then. Thank you. Scott
Lobdell Do you have credits andadd on to like that means we get
in the beginning? No,

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Comic Book Legend Scott Lobdell | Best Worst Idea Podcast Episode One

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}Comic Book Legend Scott Lobdell | Best Worst Idea Podcast Episode One