How to Drive Change with Susan Inouye

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Episode Transcript

riverside_susan_& mike _ ju (00:02):
the number one driver of job
satisfaction and dissatisfactionwas things like recognition.
They said compensation but theysaid compensation is not about
the money so much as it is aboutthe recognition.
Do you value me?
Do you care about who I am?

(00:23):
Do you see me not as a an assetthat is transactional, but do
you see me as a human being inthe moment, especially around AI
and automation?

Mike Goldman (00:42):
You made it to the better leadership team show, the
place where you learn how tosurround yourself with the right
people, doing the right things.
So you can grow your businesswithout losing your mind.
I'm your host and leadershipteam coach, Mike Goldman.
I'm going to show you how toimprove top and bottom line
growth, fulfillment, and thevalue your company adds to the

(01:02):
world by building a betterleadership team.
All right, let's go.

riverside_susan_& mike _ j (01:14):
Mike Goldman[00:01] Susan Inouye is
an executive coach, bestsellingauthor, and co-founder of
Sawubona Leadership.
With a two-decade career,transforming over 600 companies,
she's renowned for integratingmillennial insights into
corporate strategy.
Her bestselling book,Leadership's Perfect Storm,

(01:36):
explores how millennialsredefine leadership through
possibilities, passion, andpurpose.
recognized as one of the top 10inspiring women rocking the
global business world.
Susan's work fosters inclusivecultures globally under Sawubona
leadership, celebratingindividual gifts and uniting

(01:56):
generations.
really excited about thisinterview.
We're going to talk aboutdriving change, how to get your
team to rally around aroundchange efforts.
We may talk a little bit aboutmillennials, but Susan, welcome
to the show.
Susan Inouye[00:55] Thank you somuch, Mike.
It's great to be here with you.
Mike Goldman[00:59] And my firstquestion is, what do you believe

(02:16):
is the most importantcharacteristic of a great
leadership team?
Susan Inouye[01:07] Hmm.
Yeah, I think there are many,but one that stands out for me
is a shared commitment to beingable to embody the values and
live into the purpose of theteam every day, not just in what
we do, but in who we are.

(02:37):
And when I talk about values, Imean, you know, what's most
important to the team.
And I think three values thatcome up for me.
of great leadership teams isrespect, accountability, and
trust.
The respect for each other'sgifts that we bring into the
world, the respect for eachother's values, what's most
important in our lives, and therespect for other people's

(03:00):
thoughts and ideas and theirviewpoints, especially when
they're different than ours, andhaving openness and curiosity
and less right-wrong judgments.
And you know, when I talk about,I guess, accountability, I'm
talking about holding ourselvesand others accountable to our
gifts, holding ourselves andothers accountable to the values

(03:22):
of the team and the purpose ofit.
And then I think a third one forme is being able to hold
ourselves accountable tocontinuously growing and
developing into the bestversions of ourselves.
And hopefully we're incompanies.
that actually put asidefinancial funds for that to
happen and actually require usto do training and coaching and

(03:46):
hire a coach and things likethat.
Because when you talk aboutdriving change, the best
companies, Mike, are the onesthat adapt the core value of
growth and development.
Because if we're constantlychanging and being better, then
it's very easy when it shouldhave comes along.
for us to head in anotherdirection because we've

(04:08):
developed the muscle of change.
Mike Goldman[02:55] Yeah, I'm soon the same page with you.
And very often when we talkabout, you know, setting money
aside for, you know, peoplegrowth and all that stuff,
people look at that as thiswarm, fuzzy thing and yeah, but
we've got to, we've got toinvest in new equipment or, or
what I have seen time and timeagain, and there's studies that

(04:28):
show it is that investing inpeople is going to give you a
greatest ROI.
The number one driver of profitgrowth is people growth.
So we need to do that.
So, so I love what you're sayingthere.
I also, know, when you talkabout values and purpose and the
importance of that on aleadership team, what, what I
have seen too is while that'simportant for the leadership

(04:52):
team, the CEO has got to be themodel.
It's very easy to say, HR isgoing to own culture values,
purpose, all that stuff.
Our HR person is going to ownit.
Well, bull if the CEO doesn'tmodel that.
then we're not going to see theright change throughout the
organization.
So love that.
Susan Inouye[03:54] Yeah, it'sgonna come from the top.
You're absolutely right.
And what happens is the teamaligns their team purpose

(05:16):
according to the purpose of theorganization.
And the purpose is not thevision, it's why we exist.
It is the deep commitment thatwe have to each other and to
others outside of theorganization.
And it is what is the greatergood that we are gonna serve.
Mike Goldman[03:57] Yeah.
Susan Inouye[04:20] And you'reabsolutely right, there is
definitely a direct alignmentbetween growing our people into

(05:40):
the best version of themselvesand increased productivity,
revenue and profitability.
And I've had many clients thatI've worked with that have seen
tremendous growth, like one thatincreased their revenues by 50
in only six months during 2010when there was a downturn in
economy.
and banks had a solidreputation.

(06:02):
So there is absolutely a directconnection and a lot of times, I
don't know why, executives don'tmake that connection.
Mike Goldman[04:55] Yeah, it'sthe first thing that they throw
away when times are tough istheir investment in people.
So I want to drill into thismore, but I've got to ask first
the Sawubona leadership.
Tell me, I know there's a storybehind that and there's a

(06:23):
meaning of that word.
Tell us the story behind it, howyou found that and what it
means.
Susan Inouye[04:59] Yeah,exactly.
So, you know, it was more than13 years ago, I started getting
calls from executivescomplaining about their
millennials.
I mean, they were frustrated,they were puzzled.

(06:44):
And they said, I mean, Susan,who would quit their job with
another one to go to?
You know, I mean, there werejust things that were happening
that were just out of the norm.
And there was so much pain andsuffering between generations.
that I had to find some kind ofsolution and I wanted to find
something that wasn't just basedin theory and academics but
grounded in proven results.

(07:05):
And so an executive client, hetook me to the ghettos of South
Central Los Angeles to find myanswer and there he introduced
me to this person named TonyLaRae.
And I found out that he was aformer CEO.
He had a very successfulbusiness which he had sold and
for the past decade he had beentransforming saving the lives of

(07:29):
thousands of inner citymillennial youth through his
mentoring program withunprecedented results.
Now, what I loved about what hedid was, Mike, he went into the
community.
He asked these young people whatit would take to engage with
them and they told him.
And over the decades he createdwhat he called the gift-centered

(07:50):
approach.
And the gift-centered approachwas at the heart of the way he
led, which he called Sawubonaleadership.
And as I went to some of hismentoring sessions, he invited
me.
I was just taken aback becausehere was a community of people
of all different generations,all different genders, all
different ethnic backgrounds,and the deep connection, and the

(08:12):
way they engage each other thatbrought out the best in who they
were.
I said, my gosh, I need him tomentor me because I not only saw
a way of helping my execs, but Isaw a way of creating cultures
of belonging.
And so he did.
I took it into the corporateworld over 13 years ago.
I started to turn aroundcompanies and cultures in a way

(08:35):
that was long-term andsustainable.
And today, gift-centeredapproach in Sawubona leadership
is in over 30 countries.
And it was the subject of mybest, my book, Leadership's
Perfect Storm.
We launched it in the end of2018 and we were fortunate.
It hit the number one bestsellerin leadership and business
management.
Yeah, thanks.

(08:58):
Mike Goldman[07:41] Congrats.
So dig a little deeper on whatis that the gift-centered
approach, the Sawubona approach,what is that?
Give us kind of the overview andthen maybe we'll dive deeper,
but start off with an overviewof what it is.
Susan Inouye[07:58] So, Sawubonameans I see you, as in seeing
the whole person.
And we find that when we see andaccept people for who they are,

(09:20):
they see and accept us for whowe are, and a different
conversation unfolds.
Not one where we're lecturing toeach other, but a conversation
where we're listening andlearning from each other.
And could I give you a story ofone of my clients?
Because she actually was able todrive change within her
department.
through entering through theportal of Sawubona.

(09:42):
So would that be okay?
Okay.
Mike Goldman[08:29] Yeah, that'dbe great.
And then hold on.
And then I want you to give mean example of two politicians
that use this because I think weneed that in the world.
That's got to be your nextthing, but.
Susan Inouye[08:39] Well, Igotta tell you something which
is really interesting.
It was the Democratic Conventionseveral years ago.
They introduced Bill Clinton andthey did a video clip on his

(10:03):
travels.
And he had gone to South Africaand they brought up the
greeting, Sawubona that inAfrica it's not just about
saying hello, it's about saying,I see you.
I see you as a human being.
see you as a person.
So I had a lot of people call meand say, Hey, Clinton stole your
Sawubona But yeah, so it's beenbrought up.

(10:26):
It's yeah.
Mike Goldman[09:13] Yeah, weneed that more.
We need that more than thepolitical world.
But I took you on a left turnthere.
Go back to your you were aboutto tell a client story.
Susan Inouye[09:16] I know.
Okay, this is story Yeah, soI'll call this person Kathy.
And Kathy was the director ofIT.
And I was working in the companywith other execs, not with her.
But one day she came up to meand she was just very

(10:48):
distraught.
She said, Susan, I don't knowwhat to do.
I'm gonna have to fire one of mybest people, Jack.
Now Jack is a millennial.
And she said, I've triedeverything.
Now, Kathy came from the worldof command and control.
So she used the carrot and thestick on Jack.
She gave him incentives.
She gave him reprimands.
Nothing seemed to be working.
And she said, my boss said Ihave to let him go by Friday.

(11:12):
I said, OK.
So we talked a little bit more.
And I told her about gifts.
And then I asked her, so what doyou think are Jack's gifts?
And I remember her just having ablank stare.
And this is not unusual becausegifts are what we were born to
bring naturally into the world.
It's what we do without thinkingabout them.
It's just who we are.

(11:32):
So I reaffirmed the question.
I said, Kathy, why did you hirehim?
And his eyes lit up, her eyeslit up and she said, wow,
because he's not like any othertech rep.
He doesn't talk down to ourcustomers in that techie
language that tech peopleusually do.
He gains rapport easily.
He can solve the mostchallenging issues and every rep

(11:53):
comes to him for help and he'sgood at coaching them.
I said, okay.
She said, but I'm going to haveto fire him.
I said, wait a minute.
Okay.
Let's just step back and see abigger picture.
And this is one of the thingsthat I have my clients do step
back and see the big picture.
I asked her, what do you thinkis Jack's retention rate of the
clients that he does have?

(12:14):
And she looked and she said, Idon't know.
She said, why?
I said, because he could bringin less new servicing, new less
clients, but retaining more.
And that could be moreprofitable.
So she said, let me find out.
So the next day she calls me andshe said, Susan, you'll never
believe it.

(12:34):
Jack has the highest retentionrate of all our reps and he is
more profitable.
I said, great.
I said, talk to your boss buy ustime and let's brainstorm.
So The first thing that we do iswe brainstorm.
said, Kathy, what is the giftsthat are trying to come out in
this so-called bad behavior?

(12:56):
And she said, wow.
She said, well, he gains rapportwith people.
He's very analytical,intelligent.
He can solve the most difficultchallenges.
He's great at training andcoaching people.
He gains rapport easily.
And she went on and on.
I said, OK.
I said, how do we redirect thesegifts so it can better serve?

(13:16):
Jack, you and the organization,let's redirect it." And she came
up with this really great idea.
She said, let's have him createa training manual, give away all
of his secrets so the other repscan have it.
I said, great.
And I said, he also has the giftof training.
Why don't we have him train theentire department?
She said, my gosh, yes.

(13:37):
I said, but first you have toconvince him that you want him
to do this.
And I would start withacknowledging his gifts,
recognizing them.
And so she did, he was flatteredand he said, sure, he'd do it.
Now we did many other things,but what happened was the long
story short is the company got anew training manual.

(13:59):
Jack trained the entiredepartment.
Productivity and retention wentup across the board.
Jack in breaking down what hecould do so naturally well found
other ways he could be moreeffective and efficient.
And now, Mike, he was making hismonthly quotas of new customers

(14:19):
served.
They had three consecutive yearsof the highest retention rate of
their customers.
And Kathy was promoted from adirector to a general manager.
And that's how she drove changewithin the organization by
entering through the pinhole,which I call Sawubona.
Mike Goldman[13:25] So is thatis the heart of Sawubona all

(14:42):
about understanding, helpingpeople understand what their
gifts are, what their genius is,what their strengths are and
saying, how do we take that andbetter leverage that in the
organization, which is going tobe great for them and great for
us.
that, is that the heart of it?
Susan Inouye[13:47] It's theentry point.

(15:03):
It is the entry point with wherewe start because, and it's not
about taking an assessment wherethe assessment says these are
the person's strengths orwhatever.
We call them gifts and we callthe other side to the gift the
blind spot.
And you can turn a blind spotinto a strength.
But let me go back.

(15:23):
It is the entry point because ifyou don't even see the gifts in
your people, how do you And thisdrives change, by the way.
How do you put them in areas oftheir job where their gifts
blossom?
And when their gifts blossom,they feel valued and seen.
How do you then praise the gift?
And praising the gift isdifferent than just praise.

(15:45):
It's not, it's not, know, I canpraise the action, like, thank
you, Jack, for putting mystapler back in my drawer.
I really appreciate, and he'llkeep putting it back in the
drawer.
But if I, praise the gift behindthe action like, my gosh, you
have such, you have a gift oforganization.
Like that is so cool.
I mean, how could you use thatin other parts of our company?

(16:08):
And now I get him starting tothink how we could use the gift,
not just the action.
When you start doing this,people feel recognized.
And by the way, there was astudy done by Korn Ferry.
It was their 2025 annual.
workforce survey and in it theysaid that the number one driver

(16:29):
of job satisfaction anddissatisfaction was things like
recognition.
They said compensation but theysaid compensation is not about
the money so much as it is aboutthe recognition.
Do you value me?
Do you care about who I am?
Do you see me not as a an assetthat is transactional, but do

(16:57):
you see me as a human being inthe moment, especially around AI
and automation?
So this is the thing that drivesthem.
And in Sawubona, when werecognize the gift, it drives me
even further.
So it's an entry point, but it'snot everything.
So we enter through it.
I mean, I can tell you that I'vehad organizations that just see

(17:18):
the gifts, praise the gifts, putpeople in...
Areas where the gifts willblossom I had a business owner
do this and I worked with herfor a while They increased their
profits.
They doubled them in one yearjust by following those things
but they create a culture whereeverybody is observing and

(17:39):
There's other things we did tooBut it's the entry point if we
can't even see this then allwe're doing is Judging our
people and saying hey you didthis wrong.
You did that wrong, you knowDoes that make any sense?
Mike Goldman[16:39] It does, itdoes.
how you said something earlieraround the gifts is that that's

(18:01):
something that comes, thosegifts come natural to us.
I don't remember exactly how youput it, but when I think of
gifts and, and, and, you know, Imight define natural talents,
maybe in the same way is that wedon't necessarily see that in
ourselves because it's thingsthat come easily to us so we
think everybody can do it.

(18:22):
So do you find that with giftsthat people don't necessarily
see their own gifts?
We have to hold the mirror up tothem to say, you may not know
it, but you have these gifts.
Susan Inouye[17:14] you Right, Imean when I do an assessment of
a client that I'm working with,even execs, and they've risen to
the top, they've been usingtheir gifts for years, I'll ask
them, what are your gifts?
And they'll go, you know, Ireally don't know.

(18:44):
So what I have them do is pickfive people who have their best
interests at heart, who theytrust, that know them, and will
tell them their gifts.
and what their blind spots are,which is the other side to the
gift.
And so when they get back thisfeedback from people that they

(19:04):
trust and respect, they go, mygosh, I didn't realize that I
have this.
didn't, yeah.
And it's also these aha momentsgo, I got it.
Yeah.
Now the funny thing about gifts,and this is where development
happens as well.
And we talked about growth anddevelopment.
being a really an engine ofchange for our people, right?

(19:28):
Learning how to constantlychange and build that muscle of
change is the other side to thegift.
So if a person has the gift ofplanning, and it depends on how
planning is defined, usually theother side to that gift, what do
you think it is?
The other side to the gift ofplanning.
Mike Goldman[18:32] Do you meanother side meeting a blind spot

(19:48):
or?
Susan Inouye[18:35] what they'reblind to and need to learn.
If you are a planner, what areyou blind to and need to learn?
Mike Goldman[18:41] would thinksomeone who's a real good
planner may sometimes be blindto making quick decisions and
getting started because theywant to analyze and keep
planning.
Susan Inouye[18:51] Yeah, soit's being able to let go and go
with the flow.

(20:10):
Most people who are greatplanners, if something doesn't
go according to the plan, theyget very frustrated, right?
So now we know, but what'sinteresting is when you tell a
person, look, you have thisgift, but you're overusing it
until it becomes your weakness.
Just like when we overuse amuscle, it becomes weak.

(20:31):
When we overuse a gift, ourblind spot shows up.
And so I say to them, if youlearn to turn that blind spot
into a strength, and a blindspot is not negative, it's a
gift you don't have.
If you learn to let go and gowith the flow, then what happens
is you have the capacity to doboth, that when things don't go

(20:53):
according to plan, you can headin another direction.
And it's not either or, Mike.
It's an integration of both.
And this is also anotherdefinition for me of balance.
When we have our gift, whichwe're already developing, we
turn our blind spot intostrength and we have the
integration of both, thatcreates balance because we're
seeing the world through adifferent lens.

(21:16):
Mike Goldman[20:02] So how doessomeone do that?
Cause it, sounds great, but ifyou've got someone who is a
planner and you say it's great,that's a gift you have, but you
also have to be comfortableletting go.
They're not naturallycomfortable letting go.
So how do you help someonebecome comfortable with

(21:38):
something that's the opposite ofwho they believe they are?
Susan Inouye[20:09] Great.
or not.
Right, and so this is where wego deeper into the work that I
do.
It enters through Sawubona, butwhat happens is when I
acknowledge someone's gift andjust say you're overusing it
until it leads to this, theydon't get defensive.
They go, yeah, that's true,yeah, okay.

(21:59):
Now, so how do you get a person?
And this is also a part ofchange.
Change happens not in the mind,it happens in the body.
Unless we change the way we feelin our bodies, we do not
transform.
Okay, so let me just say thatstatement, which means this, and
then I'll get you into planningand flow, which is that it's

(22:21):
like learning to drive a car.
When we learn to drive a car, wehave the insight.
We go in a classroom, we havethe insight.
yeah, these are the rules of theroad.
This is what I must do.
But it's intellectual insight.
Aha moments.
But aha moments is nottransformation.
Until you add practices, until Iget in the car, until I feel the

(22:44):
pedal, the brakes, until I'm intraffic and I embody what it
feels like to be in that car intraffic and I practice it over
and over again.
I never develop new habits thatlead to new competencies where
now today I drive a car and Idon't even think about it.
That's what we call embodiment.

(23:05):
That's what we calltransformation.
So I have to do practices of thebody to help a person feel what
it is to let go and go with theflow.
So their body creates a new wayof being where this becomes
their new home base.
They're used to it.

(23:25):
They're used to going fromplanning to flowing and back and
forth.
So you want me to give youanother story of one of my
clients?
Because this is a really coolone.
Mike Goldman[22:19] Sure,because I'm trying to figure out
like, what do I need to do withmy body in order to feel, do I
have to move around and youknow.
Susan Inouye[22:21] you shortone and then I'll give you a
longer one.
So a CFO, he came to me and oneof the things was is that he was
very stuck in his analytical andplanning kind of method, right?

(23:50):
And I found out I always givepractices to clients that they
tell me about what they're doingin their life and then I bring a
new nuance to that, adistinction.
So he had said to me, Susan, Hejust in conversation, he said,
my wife has always wanted me totake ballroom dancing.
I love my wife.

(24:10):
I want to do whatever she wantsto do.
That was just a sideconversation.
And I, take everything in and Isaid to him, okay, would you be
open to the practice of learningsalsa?
And he said, salsa.
I said, yeah, you said you'd doanything for your wife and she
wants to learn ballroom dancing.

(24:32):
He said, I said, so you couldkill two birds with one stone.
You could do a practice that Iwant you to do so you could feel
in your body what flow is andyou will then please your wife.
He thought he went, wow, OK, OK.
So they hired a ballroomteacher.

(24:54):
And I remember he got in.
I'll just call him George.
George got into.
private lessons with his wife.
His wife was so excited.
She said tell Susan I love her.
Mike Goldman[23:50] You SusanInouye[23:51] So when he went to
go take private lessons with hiswife, the salsa teacher first
said, my gosh, you are so stiff.
And he said, and he said, you'rethinking too much, just kind of

(25:17):
go with it.
And he said to the salsateacher, that's exactly what my
coach said.
And salsa teachers said, whatdid, why did you, what, what is
this?
Why did your coach send you totake salsa?
And he said, because I don'tknow what flow feels like.
And the salsa teacher said,she's very smart.
You're going learn what flowfeels like.

(25:39):
It just changed his wholedemeanor, his whole aura.
Instead of being very stiff,like this, he was able to flow
with what came to him.
Now want to give you one morestory because this is huge.
I had a person, I'll call herBeth.
She was the head of productionof an event planning company.

(26:01):
So you can only imagine that hercore gift was planning.
That was one of her best gifts.
But she was on the verge ofburnout because there wasn't
anything she didn't plan.
So when we started workingtogether, I knew I had to get
her into a practice of lettinggo and going with the flow.
And did mention to me, we didtoo, she did mention to me that

(26:23):
she wanted to clean out herhouse.
But she had a lot of things thathad memories for her.
So I said, would you be open tothe practice of cleaning out
your house, not to get rid ofthings, but to feel what it's
like to let go.
Because in order for a person tostop planning, they first have

(26:43):
to let go.
She said, okay.
So we created a ritual aroundletting go.
I also found out she was aphotographer.
So she said, how about if Icreate a ritual where when I let
go of something important to me,I feel what it's like in my
body, and then I take aphotograph of it and I create a

(27:05):
photo book of all the preciousthings that have so much memory.
I said, great.
So she did it.
It opened the door to...
Her then telling me one day shealways wanted to learn
trapezing.
And I went, and then she went onand I said, back up, back up.
You've always wanted to learntrapezing.

(27:26):
Why?
She said, well, as a littlegirl, I saw them on the flying
trapeze.
I said, are you stillinterested?
She said, yeah.
I said, really?
I found the New York school oftrapeze on the Santa Monica Pier
here in Los Angeles, where Ilive.
I went to talk to them and theysaid, my gosh, we get a lot of
executives that do things likethis with trapeze.
And that's what they kind ofwant to learn.

(27:48):
So I gave her the practice oftrapezing.
She went down to Santa MonicaPier, she signed up, and she
started taking trapeze lessons.
Mike, she replaced her fear ofletting go with a feeling of
freedom.
And she started to let go ofwhole projects.

(28:08):
She started to trust her people.
I mean, there were so manybenefits.
Her people started to drive thecompany forward rather than her
having to lead it forward.
They were the engine that droveit.
And because now she knew what itfelt like, and by the way, she's
still taking it.
She's now doing silks.
And silks is a little bitharder.

(28:29):
But she said, Susan, I havenever felt what it is to have
such freedom when I let go.
So that's why doing somaticpractices, practices of the
body, are so important intransformation.
Mike Goldman[27:29] So how do werelate this to a CEO or a senior

(28:49):
leader that is trying toimplement some major change in
the organization?
It's not necessarily they wantto change from planning too much
to letting go or something.
they want to implement somechange in the organization.

(29:09):
And I'll give you a sillyexample from my previous life as
a management consultant manyyears ago where change was not
handled well was I was workingfor what's now called Accenture
way back in like 1989.
Susan Inouye[28:12] know thatcompany well.
Mike Goldman[28:14] Yeah, Ihelped my client, it was a

(29:30):
retailer, implement a brand newsystem to automatically
replenish inventory.
Our pilot department was PlaytexBras.
That's where we wereimplementing this system.
And we thought the system workedgreat.
Zero return on investment,inventory got worse.

(29:51):
The reason why inventory gotworse, getting back to change,
is because while the systemseemed to work fine, all of the
merchants that had to approvethese orders didn't believe what
any computer system was gonnatell them.
This was way back before AI andus believing what computers tell
us, but didn't believe what anycomputer system would tell them.

(30:12):
So what they did is theseautomatic orders will come out
and they would just modify themall.
And it totally screwed upinventory.
It's a matter of we created thissystem, but didn't really handle
the change management very wellto get people to change the way
they're thinking.
Now these days there may be awhole bunch of other things,
know, the AI changing the worldand how we do things.

(30:35):
But how should a leader think ifthere's a major change they want
to drive in their organization?
How could they use some of theseconcepts to think, you know, how
do I implement change in my teamor in my company?
Susan Inouye[29:35] Yeah, sowhat I want to say to you is
this.
And then I'll give you some,I'll give you the thoughts on
the most successful company andhow they are getting their

(30:57):
people behind change.
First of all, if you're the kindof leader that is very command
and control and all you do isgive directives, then your
people, first of all, know thatyou don't value their ideas, you
don't value who they are.
And it's gonna be very hard toall of a sudden care about them.
so that they care about you.
That is really the bottom linebecause even out of the survey

(31:20):
of Korn Ferry, came out that youhave to start to build that
culture where people feel valuedand seen for who they are.
And so that they are bringingthe change to you rather than
you putting the change on them.
There is a saying, there's astatement, which is leaders,
true leaders.
I'm not talking about people inpositions of power or people

(31:43):
with title.
There is a difference.
But truly just create thechange, create the culture where
change doesn't happen to us.
It happens because of us.
And what we're finding is, isthat the most successful
companies, what they do is theones that are able to get their
people behind changeinitiatives.

(32:05):
are the ones that first receivethe voice and the inputs of
their people.
But they have been doing thatfor a while.
They receive it.
They have createdinfrastructures where people can
give their feedback, theirideas, their thoughts.
They create opportunities wherethey can participate in, when
we're talking about AI andautomation, in the adoption

(32:27):
process, the usage process, theimplementation process.
And in doing all this, it helpsthe company to integrate
technology that is not only ofsupports, but advances the
organization strategies thatalready exist.
They give voice to people.

(32:49):
For example, Gen Z, they grew upwith AI.
These are the companies thatgive voice to Generation Z by
saying, hey, we want you tomentor our leaders.
because we know that you'llcatch on much faster than
others.
So it is very much so that youstart to create that environment
because we're in change all thetime.

(33:11):
And that's why I'm saying if oneof the core values of a company
is growth and learning and theyrequire their people to do
something every year, they'reconstantly changing so that when
it happens, it's not a big deal.
Mike Goldman[32:14] I love that.
and it's not just like you couldencourage growth and learning,

(33:33):
you know, yeah, you've got to goget trained on that.
You've got to go learn, butstill not really see people
still not really accept theirinputs, still be more command
and control from the top.
But if you're encouraging growthand learning, and at the same
time, you are understanding whatpeople's gifts are and you are

(33:54):
getting feedback and givingpeople opportunity to
participate, then you're goingto get that change.
And I think a great example, hadsomeone on the podcast not too
long ago talking specificallyabout artificial intelligence.
And the question came up, youknow, do we need someone in our
organization to be accountablefor AI, to kind of own AI?

(34:15):
And the answer then and her viewon it was was very interesting.
which was that AI, and I thinkthis is a good kind of metaphor
for other things that we'retalking about.
AI is very much a technologythat is grassroots.
It's not someone at the topsaying we will all use AI in

(34:37):
this way to do this.
It's a lot of people trying outchat GPT for something and gamma
for something else andperplexity for something else.
And through that, you realizewhat's working and then
perpetuate it throughout theentire organization.
which is very different than topdown.
seems like that's a metaphor forhow a lot of change should be

(34:57):
happening.
Susan Inouye[33:44] Yeah, andyou've got to understand, mean,
partly is the people at the topwho are of generations prior to
millennials.
They don't take the time toreally understand and know what
their people need and value andthen provide opportunities for
those needs to be fulfilled.
One of the things that we arefinding out, and this came out

(35:19):
in the survey, that what theyvalue is growth.
They value an organization, acompany.
investing in them becomingbetter leaders, investing in
their skills in AI.
They want to not just understandit, they want to be able to use
it in a meaningful way in theirwork.

(35:41):
And by the way, they see thechange in AI happening, but they
don't feel prepared to meet itbecause they feel that their
companies are not giving themthe skill, that they're not
skilling them up to be able tomeet the demand and the
challenge.
And so, and a lot of times oneof the reasons it's not
happening is because thegenerations prior to millennials
don't feel comfortable with it.

(36:03):
So it's hard for them.
But like I said, the companieswho are smart, they give voice
to Gen Z and say, hey, let'shave you mentor the people at
the top.
So very much of a different wayof thinking.
Mike Goldman[35:04] So what is,what's the, if I'm a leader and
again, I want to drive change,what's the first thing a leader

(36:31):
should be thinking about?
How do they, know, do they needto go out and hire you to help
people take salsa lessons andtrapeze?
because of your expertise andyour gifts, you have the ability
to come up with these ideas andhelp your clients, but for the
leader who's saying, hey, you Ineed to try to change myself.

(36:52):
I want to help change thecompany and do that through
others.
What's the first thing theyought to be thinking about?
Is it that entry point ofstarting to understand the gifts
in their team members?
Is that the first thing theyought to do or is there a
different way to get started?
Susan Inouye[35:54] Well, it is,but the first thing is that they
want certain things from theirpeople.

(37:13):
They have to have it themselves.
And it can happen very fast ifthey step into the journey.
In other words, if you don'tknow your own gifts, if you
don't know your own blind spots,if you're not working on these
things every day, then guesswhat?
It's going to be hard for you tocoach your people so that they
can be the leaders you need themto be.

(37:35):
But if you step in, the resultscan be tenfold.
And so, so let me put it thisway to you.
In working with organizationsand in doing speaking
engagements, I've had manymillennials come up to me and
they have many needs, but thethree needs that keep echoing is
the need to feel heard, to usetheir gifts and have meaning and

(37:57):
purpose in their lives.
Now, when I ask the audience,who is of other generations, how
many of you want that too?
Every hand goes up.
Because it's not a generationalneed, it is a human need.
So if leaders do not addressthese three needs of human
beings, then it will be hard toget people behind you to drive

(38:19):
change.
Because they'll constantly becomplaining, they'll constantly
be going, you don't get me.
And the one thing that I do knowis that when for, and this
workplace survey backed it up,they say they want to be
challenged.
They want to have interestingand different work as long as

(38:43):
you don't just lecture down tothem.
They want to be givenopportunity to use their gifts
in different ways and they wantto work, walk away from their
work every day feeling fulfilledbecause they have contributed.
We are not you, if you knowtheir gifts, you know where to
place them, you know how to beable to help them, you know how
to coach them, there's so manyother things that can happen

(39:04):
from that.
So I say, like when I work withleaders, I'll give you another
story too.
I had a leader that came to mein the downturn of the economy
in 2010.
She wanted to drive change, toincrease revenue and
profitability in a time when Wehad a downturn in economy and
banks had a solid reputation.

(39:26):
And all of her bosses said toher, you just have to be patient
and wait, there's nothing we cando.
But she believed that there wassomething that could be done.
She said, I really believe thatI can drive this change so that
this region, she was a regionalmanager and senior vice
president of a subsidiary of aninternational bank that I worked

(39:46):
with.
And so she came to me and wetalked.
And I told her the entry pointis going to be me helping you
become a better person and abetter leader.
And she looked at me and shesaid, like, what does that have
to do with me increasing myproductivity and profitability?
I said everything, everything.
And so we started at thepinhole.

(40:07):
And it's like the pebble in thepond effect.
If you are the rock and you havechanged and you're such an
amazing leader, I drop you intothe pond.
Mike Goldman[38:49] Yeah.
Susan Inouye[39:04] and yourgoodness ripples out to touch
everybody else in the pond andthings happen.
So I worked with her, enteredthrough Sawubona gifts.

(40:29):
I talked to her people.
The complaints from her peoplewere and why they didn't like
getting behind her.
You know, they did their job,but the extra stuff that you
need to drive change will nothappen because number one, they
said she only approached themwhen she saw them doing things
wrong.
She didn't value them.
She didn't listen.
We could tell she's thinkingabout other things.

(40:51):
And we don't feel like we're apart of anything.
And she had her businessdevelopment officer say to me
that she was the worst leader hehad ever worked with.
And by the way, you can tellher.
So I told her just, you know,and she said, well, I didn't
hire him.
Anyway, we started working toget her to connect and receive

(41:14):
to see the gifts because theseare the answers to if you want
to fill herd you have to connectand receive with your people if
Your people want to use theirgifts you have to see their
gifts if your people wantmeaning and purpose you have to
create a culture where they filla part of something greater than
themselves and so Therein liedwe worked with her We quieted

(41:38):
her mind, we did practices ofmeditation, she jumped right in.
There was a point where she wasso present, people were going,
my gosh, it feels so differentto be around her.
They knew she was listening andpresent, she was receiving their
ideas, she was open to them.
She allowed them to be able totry those ideas as long as they

(41:59):
had backup plans in case itdidn't work.
She found that she did have thegift of compassion for others,
but she blocked it with herright wrong judgments.
So when we quiet the mind, wecan also sink into the heart and
develop its intelligence throughpractices of appreciation.

(42:19):
All of a sudden, she started tosee the gifts in people and
especially, I'll just call himJim, her BD officer.
And she started to recognize himthrough just praising the gift.
She did many other things.
She put people, she started seewhere she could put people in
areas where they would excel.
And all of a sudden the teamcame together like never before.

(42:42):
I can tell you that within aperiod of six months, they
increased their region's book ofbusiness by 50%.
By the end of the year, theywere at 150 of their goals.
Within a year, they were the topregion in the entire
international bank.
And she called me one daybecause, and she was like in

(43:05):
tears and I said, what's goingon?
She goes, my God, Jim was in ameeting of my bosses.
And he said, my gosh, what didhe say?
Cause he's the one that said shewas the worst leader ever.
He told them that I was the bestleader he had ever worked for.
That I see my people, that Ivalue them, that I listen, I
give them opportunities toparticipate.

(43:27):
And Susan, I just never thought.
that me becoming a better personand a leader would lead to all
of this.
And that's how you drive change.
And that happened within aperiod of six months.
So you tell me if that's notfast enough.
Mike Goldman[42:28] Yeah, that'samazing.
That's amazing.
So Susan, as, as we start tokind of wrap this up, if

(43:47):
someone, wants to take the nextstep, if someone wants to find
out more about you and yourservices to help them understand
their own gifts, see themselvesbetter, help them see others
better and help, help others seetheir gifts.
Susan Inouye[42:47] help themincrease their Mike Goldman
[42:48] I'm using a differentlanguage now already for us
talking together.
But if someone wants to takethat next step and better

(44:09):
understanding their own gifts,helping others to see and
leverage their gifts, whereshould people go to find out
more about you, your book, yourspeaking, all the things you do?
Susan Inouye[43:06] Sure, thanksMike.
We created a page.
it's SusanInouye.com forwardslash BLTS.

(44:29):
So let me spell it.
It's SusanS-U-S-A-N-I-N-O-U-Y-E.com
forward slash B as in better, Las in leadership, T as in team.
S is in show and they'll find onthat page I have three offers.

(44:49):
They can download a chapter ofthe book.
That's one.
Number two, they can there's alink to the book on Amazon and
all proceeds by the way go toYouth Mentoring Connection who
is the organization that taughtme Sawubona leadership.
And the third is they can book adiscovery call and if they just

(45:10):
want to ask me questions or theyhave a challenge, I'd be happy
to ask me anything.
And if they're interested in myservices, they can ask that too.
Mike Goldman[44:05] And by theway, if you're driving your car
and you couldn't write down allthose, and people could probably
spell Susan, okay.
It was the rest of it they needhelp with.
This will all be in the shownotes.

(45:30):
So when you park your car andyou have a chance to actually
look at your phone, look at theshow notes and it'll be there.
But Susan, thanks so much.
I always say if you want a greatcompany, you need a great
leadership team.
Susan, thanks for helping us getthere today.
Susan Inouye[44:13] Thank You'rewelcome.
Thanks, Mike.