November 4, 2025 • 49 mins
In this episode, I sit down with Dr. Laura Sicola—cognitive linguist, executive coach, and author of Speaking to Influence—to explore how leaders can communicate with greater impact on stage, in the boardroom, and over Zoom.
We dig into the “expert’s curse,” the importance of repeating and reinforcing vision, and how to align what you say with how you say it so your message truly connects. We also cover common vocal pitfalls like uptalk, monotone, and vocal fry, and share practical tips you can apply in your very next meeting.
Together, we discuss how to balance vulnerability with authority, inspire action with your voice, and build credibility whether you’re leading a team, presenting to a board, or pitching big ideas. This conversation is packed with strategies to help you communicate with clarity, confidence, and influence.
Thanks for listening! Connect with us at mike-goldman.com/blog and on Instagram@mikegoldmancoach and on YouTube @Mikegoldmancoach
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Dr. Laura Sicola (00:02):
let's not use the word authentic to justify
unconscious habits.
Let's look at what do you wantto have as the impact of your
speech?
How do you want people to feel?
About what you're saying.
What do you want to make themthink about?
And what result do you want toget?
(00:23):
What decision, what action, whatbehavior do you want them to
take?
Now, go back and look at yourown message.
Listen to your message, watchyour video, and ask yourself.
What in this message, contentand delivery is going to compel
that person to behave andrespond the way I want them to,
(00:45):
or what might be undermining myown success.
Be objective about it.
That's the key.
Mike Goldman (00:59):
You made it to the better leadership team show, the
place where you learn how tosurround yourself with the right
people, doing the right things.
So you can grow your businesswithout losing your mind.
I'm your host and leadershipteam coach, Mike Goldman.
I'm going to show you how toimprove top and bottom line
growth, fulfillment, and thevalue your company adds to the
(01:19):
world by building a betterleadership team.
All right, let's go.
Mike (01:33):
Dr.
Laura Sicola has coached Fortune500 leaders, advise TED speakers
and help top executives becomethe voice of the vision.
She's a cognitive linguist,that's tough to say.
And former professor turned,executive coach and the author
of Speaking to Influence.
Mastering your leadership voicewith nearly 7 million views on
(01:57):
her TEDx talk and a clientroster, including Amazon and
Kaiser Permanente.
Laura helps leaders masterpresence, persuasion, and
influence when the stakes arehigh.
As leaders, we need to influenceour teams, our clients, our
vendors.
That's what we're gonna talkabout today.
Laura, welcome to the show.
Dr. Laura Sicola (02:16):
Thank you so much for having me today, Mike.
Looking forward to it.
Mike (02:19):
Same here.
Same here.
Laura, from all of yourexperience, what do you believe
is the one most importantcharacteristic of a great
leadership team?
Dr. Laura Sicola (02:29):
without a doubt, Mike, a great leadership
team has to be willing and ableto communicate proactively and
directly and diplomatically allat the same time, and that's a
challenge for a lot.
But if you're not willing totalk in the first place, the
door just closed.
Mike (02:50):
Love that.
And I have a feeling we're gonnabe diving into that,
Dr. Laura Sicola (02:53):
Yes, we will.
Mike (02:53):
more detail, in this
Dr. Laura Sicola (02:55):
that door.
Mike (02:55):
Yeah.
So, so I wanna start out thatthere's, you know, you talk
about the difference betweenwhat leaders say and what others
actually hear,
Dr. Laura Sicola (03:06):
Yes,
Mike (03:06):
do most leaders get it wrong?
Dr. Laura Sicola (03:11):
the, we all get stuck in what I like to
refer to as the expert's curse.
And that is where, look, we'vebeen in our own fields, in our
own industries and the companiesfor however long, and so we have
built up this amazing expertise,which is wonderful, except that
it blinds us to what's topeople, where people are who are
(03:35):
not.
As expert as we are in thoseareas.
So we forget what's not obviousto others.
What's not intuitive orinteresting or necessary to
others.
How much do we need to explain?
How many, how much detail dothey need?
How much vision do they alreadyhave?
So when we just talk like theyshould know what I mean, because
in my head it's crystal clear.
(03:56):
So I'll say it in a way that'scrystal clear to me.
Not taking into account theirperspective, their competing
needs, their challenges, all ofthose things.
We're just going to be creatingthat ever widening gap between
what we think we say and whatthey think they hear.
Mike (04:12):
And you talked about vision and as one of the
examples in there, and itsparked a thought and I think
we'll probably spend a good partof our time together talking
about kind of the subtlenuances.
The distinctions and how wespeak.
But I actually wanna start outtalking about how repetitive.
We need to be.
And the reason why I thought ofthat when I thought of vision is
(04:34):
very often when I work with aleadership team early on, the
CEO believes everyone is awareand everyone is an enthusiastic
follower, evangelist of thecompany vision.
They believe that.
And the rest of the leadershipteam says something like.
(04:56):
I'd like to be, but I'm not surewhat the vision is.
and the challenge sometimes isthe CEO, you know, over dinner
three years ago when everybodywas on their second drink,
espoused his or her vision ofthe world and now expects,
everybody knows it.
Half the people weren't there.
Half the people were on theirsecond drink, as I said.
(05:17):
So talk a little bit about theimportance of repetition.
Dr. Laura Sicola (05:23):
So there's a.
I think when we look in from theworld of education in many ways,
and parenting for that matter,the notion of repetition gets a
bad rap because it's just theidea of beating the dead horse
there.
But the right kind of repetitionis about reinforcement.
We are constantly competing forpeople's attention and the
(05:45):
likelihood of anybody hearingwhat you said the first time,
much less processing it orretaining it is very low.
So we do have to keep repeatingthe vision because the vision is
the why.
It's the rationale.
It's the why are you here beyondpunching a clock and cashing a
paycheck.
It's, you could do thatanywhere.
(06:06):
And we wanna have people who arehere because they're passionate
about what we are seeking, thechange we wanna make in the
world.
If you're just here punching aclock, cashing a check, you may
not be a great fit for this.
The work is gonna suffer, theteamwork is gonna suffer and
it's gonna, there's a little bitof a, a way that it is kind of
(06:26):
cancerous frankly, through theorganization.
You want people who areinspired.
By what you are collectivelydoing and by their individual
roles in achieving that.
So if you're not explicitlyestablishing what that is on a
regular basis, and it needs tobe oral and in writing.
You need to discuss it, make itpart of it, and it needs to be
(06:49):
visible someplace where peopleare going to regularly see it,
to be reminded that's theobjective for all of us.
Mike (06:55):
Now I wanna bring us to a different scenario where now
imagine we are in the.
the executive conference room,that's probably an old term.
The executive conference room.
We're in a conference room.
Dr. Laura Sicola (07:06):
executive zoom room now.
Mike (07:08):
Yeah.
Well, it could be virtual,right?
but imagine where, you know,where the, it's a meeting with
the leadership team and in thatleadership team setting.
Sometimes even the best ideawill lose if it's not delivered
in the right way.
So what have you seen a, as theright vocal or communication
(07:29):
habits that help leaders winbuy-in from their peers around
the table.
Dr. Laura Sicola (07:38):
So there's two sides of the coin in influence
in general.
In speech, there's the.
the content and there's thedelivery, right?
The what you say and the how yousay it.
And there's that old adage.
It's not what you say, it's howyou say it that matters.
No.
What's massively, what's mostimportant is that they are
aligned.
(07:58):
You can't have one without theother.
And typically people atexecutive conference room, or
any room for that matter, tendto default to focusing on the
what.
It's like as long as my slidesare accurate, as long as my
spreadsheets are complete, aslong as my talking points are
cohesive.
That's good enough.
That's fine if you're going tosend me a report to read, but if
(08:20):
you're going to present it tome, then it's about the delivery
that drives it home.
That helps me hear what you needme to hear.
and even within the content, areyou gonna go through every cell
in the spreadsheet?
Please Don't talk to me like ahuman spreadsheet.
Tell me what's behind thosenumbers.
Tell me the story behind it.
Tell me why these things matter.
What are we, the story?
We go right back to that vision.
(08:41):
I need to understand what's.
Not on the slide.
All the pieces that come, thatbring it together, and in the
delivery.
It's about not being monotoneand just going through things.
It's not about making it soundlike it's a giant list, like
you're making your grocery list,I need apples and pears and
(09:01):
bananas and milk, and I'm askinga bunch of questions and just
going through the motions withthat rising like, and that's how
most people, not just youngwomen, which is the stereotype,
older people, men, Y chromosomeis not a vaccine.
So there's.
that sound of, I'm going throughthe motions as opposed to,
here's what I need you tounderstand.
(09:22):
I'm going to make a point.
Here's what I'm gonna emphasize,and here's where my voice is
gonna drop.
Because that's a period and youneed to understand the gravitas
of my, of this concept.
Now, when your voice is risingand lowering, emphasizing at the
right moments, and you have thebody language to go along with
it, it pulls people in and theyfeel the message beyond just
(09:43):
hearing it.
Mike (11:06):
And if we have built a.
I was gonna say style ofspeaking, but maybe that's the
wrong phrase.
If we built habits of the voicerising at the end and the
question mark, and maybe you canget into a couple of other bad
ha.
Well, actually let's do that.
'cause what I wanna do is talkabout what some of those bad
habits are.
So someone listening could say.
(11:27):
Oh crap, I do that.
what are two or three of the badhabits?
And then I wanna dive into ifthey're habits, how do you
change?
It's hard to change a habit.
So what are some more of the,you know, other than that, you
know, feeling like everythingyou say is a question.
What are some other bad habitsyou see leaders get into?
Dr. Laura Sicola (11:49):
The, so yes, that question like tone, that's
called uptalk or up speak, whichis very common.
The, you mentioned something,one moment ago.
The notion of people listeningto this and going, oh, crap, I
do that.
Here's the bigger challenge,Mike.
People will listen and go, well,I don't do that.
Somebody else does that, but Idon't do that.
Oh, yes, you do.
(12:10):
That's the problem.
We don't hear what everybodyelse hears, literally when we
are speaking.
So I'm gonna encourage, I'mgonna go first into the, I'll
reverse the order of yourquestions.
Mike.
What do we do first and then.
About what?
And the, what we do is you needto start recording yourself and
listening.
If you're on Zoom, hit therecord button or just take your
smartphone.
If you're not gonna record thegroup meeting necessarily, but
(12:33):
put on your video or your audiorecorder and just record
yourself.
Prop the phone up against themonitor of your computer, and
then go back.
You don't have to watch thewhole thing.
Two minutes here.
Two minutes there, just see howyou made your point, but you
will see more in those two tofive minutes of watching
yourself in your naturalhabitat, as it were, the way
(12:54):
that you naturally speak to yourcoworkers than you would ever
have realized.
Now, nobody likes watchingthemselves on video.
I'm on video so much.
I'm sick of my own face by theend of most days.
I don't learn to love it.
I learn to appreciate it andrecognize how fast.
I can get clear on what waseffective and what I need to
(13:15):
optimize.
So that's the how.
any point you wanna make on thatbefore I go into answering your
Mike (13:20):
No, let's talk about if that's the how.
And I like it.
I imagine people will watchthemselves until they get
totally disgusted after they seeall the things they're doing,
they're not doing right.
but I love that how, but yeah,let's dive into.
When we do that, when we'rewatching and listening to
ourselves, what should we belooking for?
what are some of those badhabits that get in our way?
Dr. Laura Sicola (13:42):
The beauty is when you watch your own video
from that kind of objectivethird party perspective.
I don't even need to give alist.
I will, but I don't because youimmediately, within 10 to 15
seconds ago, oh my gosh, whatwas I saying there?
I did X, I just did Y, I justdid Z.
Like who is that person on thecamera That has seems to have
taken over my body.
(14:03):
It looks like me.
But I can't possibly sound likethat, can I?
Or what was I doing with myface?
Or all sorts of little thingsthat we didn't realize we were
doing in the moment.
So even if somebody zones forthe next two minutes of this
conversation, just watch thevideo.
You'll figure it out on yourown.
You're a smart cookie, but the.
Okay.
So as far as suggestions on whatto look for, tonality in the
(14:26):
voice is a really important one.
So there's the traditional, andI'll date myself on this,
reference here, but the FerrisBueller's Day Off.
The Bueller.
Bueller.
anyone, I'm just gonna bemonotone my way through if you
don't know what I'm talkingabout.
You have homework, go to Netflixor I don't know, Amazon or
something, wherever it'srecorded.
Watch Ferris Bueller's Day off,John Hughes flick.
(14:48):
1987 or something along thoselines.
Great stuff.
but the monotone where it soundslike you don't even care about
what you're talking about.
Well, if you don't care, whyshould I care?
So you're automaticallydisengaging with the audience
from your content and from you.
the other piece, vocallyspeaking, is what is called,
(15:11):
vocal fry.
Okay.
And that's where you tend to sitdown in your lowest register and
there's not enough air, there'snot enough breath support.
And you can hear what I'm doingright now and it's just kind of
gravelly and I'm croaking my waythrough everything.
And it gives a different, peoplewill have different
interpretations of how itsounds.
I'm curious how it sounds toyou, Mike, if I were to kind of
have the rest of thisconversation down here.
Mike (15:31):
it, it sounds that I've heard people do it to me.
it, it's probably not true, butit sounds like.
it's a purposeful affect.
Like someone is doing that andit's like I'm showing the world
that I don't care very muchabout what's going on.
that's just the immediatereaction I have.
Dr. Laura Sicola (15:48):
And that's the point is that all of these
things, even with the uptalk andthat question like tone or mono,
monotony, et cetera.
Some of, sometimes they arelegitimately reflecting, maybe
an uncertainty with the uptalkor, I'm so tired, I just really
wanna go home and take a nap.
I can't stand it.
but that's not always the case.
(16:09):
And this is where we doourselves a great disservice
because it projects the affectthat seems to be.
You don't care.
You don't wanna be here, you aretoo good for me.
Or you're really hesitant andhoping that, I don't know if
you're gonna like what I'msaying, so I'm gonna just kinda
let the words trickle outta mymouth.
(16:30):
I'm not so confident right now.
It's all negative affect, noneof it.
all the perceptions, whetherthey are accurate or not.
All of those impressions thatpeople tend to infer.
When we use those behaviors, saythings like, I'm not confident,
I'm not passionate, I don'tcare.
I'm too, I lack energy orconviction.
(16:53):
it's, it says everything butleadership qualities.
So we need to have, and it's notabout volume.
While I'm not gonna yell to beclear, no, you can use a soft
voice and still be clear andintentional and focused.
So it's recognizing.
When I listen to myself, whenyou listen to your own video,
(17:14):
does it sound like you trulybelieve in what you're saying,
that it matters to you and youtruly believe that it needs to
matter to me?
That's what you're looking for,broadly speaking.
Mike (17:28):
So I am, I'm.
practicing my psychic abilities.
And I'm hearing, I'm hearing thethoughts of folks listening to
this and I would imagine thereare people that are thinking,
this is just naturally how Italk.
And yeah, I could listen to it,but me purposefully changing how
(17:50):
I speak in order to influence.
Doesn't sound very quote unquoteauthentic, to use a word that we
hear probably way too often,these days without people
knowing what it actually means.
How, let's dig into that alittle bit.
Dr. Laura Sicola (18:07):
Yes.
Thank you for bringing that up.
So those who say, well, I don't,I changing how I speak to do
more, what, well, let me ask youa question.
If I said, like, you know,after, like every sentence, that
I was saying like, wouldn't thatlike be annoying to you, like,
and undermine what I'm saying?
Wouldn't you be like.
(18:27):
Oh my gosh, Laura, stop.
I have to change the channel.
I can't listen to you anymore.
Well, but what if that's how Ispeak?
What if that's my natural way?
You're going?
Well, that's not working for me.
So either you change or I'mgonna find somebody else.
Well, that's how everyone iswith everyone else.
So just because you have built abad habit, most likely
(18:50):
unconsciously, it doesn't meanthat is quote unquote
authentically you.
It means you got a bad habit.
Yeah, if you sat there andtwirled your hair the entire
time, or you know, I have anine-year-old at home, so I'll
use a gross analogy.
If you sat there picking yournose unconsciously as a habit,
you are gonna call it authentic.
No.
So let's not use the wordauthentic to justify unconscious
(19:12):
habits.
Let's look at what do you wantto have as the impact of your
speech?
How do you want people to feel?
About what you're saying.
What do you want to make themthink about?
And what result do you want toget?
What decision, what action, whatbehavior do you want them to
(19:34):
take?
Now, go back and look at yourown message.
Listen to your message, watchyour video, and ask yourself.
What in this message, contentand delivery is going to compel
that person to behave andrespond the way I want them to,
or what might be undermining myown success.
(19:57):
Be objective about it.
That's the key.
Mike (19:59):
I love that and I could relate to that in my own life.
Not so much in meetings, but formany.
Part of what I do is I'm akeynote speaker and for many
years, you know, I was, I usedto think I'm naturally, you
know, I'm naturally an excellentspeaker.
Well, it turns out I wasnaturally.
(20:19):
Okay.
I was naturally pretty good, butpart of the reason why I think I
was just okay or pretty good, myideas weren't so bad, but I have
a, this habit, even when I'm onthe phone and Zoom is really
hard for me to just sit in oneplace when I'm on the phone.
I pace back and forth as I'mtalking, and I would do the same
thing on stage.
I feel so passionate about whatI'm talking about.
(20:42):
I'm running all over the stageand my hands are all over the
place, and I thought.
That shows my passion.
That's a good thing, not a badthing.
I don't wanna just stand behinda podium.
And for years I resisted gettingany kind of coaching on my
speaking because it would makeme, it, I'd lose my authenticity
as a speaker.
And what I learned is the more Imoved around on stage, or you
(21:08):
know, whether it was my feet,you know, or my hands, it was
actually hurting people'sability to get my.
Message, even though that wasquote unquote natural for me, I
had to learn like, like pickingyour nose.
I needed to learn how to stopthat bad habit because it was
absolutely getting in the way ofmy message.
Dr. Laura Sicola (21:29):
Yes.
And the key word here, Mike, isdistraction.
What is it about what we'resaying or how we're saying where
we're moving, what we're doingwith our hands?
If we're pacing, if we arefidgeting, if we're using any of
those vocal ticks that we talkedabout, that is distracting the
listener's ability to focus onwhat we actually want them to
(21:53):
focus on.
So where are we sabotaging ourown effectiveness?
And that may vary from audienceto audience.
You know, if you're with,there's something called
matching and mirroring.
And if you are with someonewho's, you know, a very reserved
kind of person, they tend tothink quite a bit before they
(22:13):
speak.
They don't gesture much.
They use a softer voice.
They are more paced.
Now, I'm not mimicking them, butI'm not gonna be my Super Jersey
girl, Italian extroverted self.
I'm not gonna go off that deepend and not, they'll feel
totally overwhelmed.
It's not being inauthentic to.
(22:34):
Tone it down a little bit.
It's just recognizing I don'twanna overwhelm her.
This is still me.
I don't have to be over the topall the time.
Now, if I'm with somebody elsewho's super energetic and
enthusiastic and talks withtheir hands and moves all over
the place, then sure, I'll dialit up a little bit.
I own both of those degrees ofenergy and I prefer one or the
(22:57):
other, but I have access toboth.
So.
Why shouldn't I adjust in a waythat's going to help me connect,
that's going to help the otherperson, to feel like they
understand me.
So little details make a bigdifference.
Mike (23:10):
Yeah.
And that's not beinginauthentic.
that's being smart.
Now the other word that is usedway more now than it ever was,
and it's a word I love, I use itall the time.
So I don't say this in anegative way, but that word is
vulnerable or vulnerability.
And I could remember back whenCOVID hit early on and we were
(23:32):
remote where we hadn't beenremote before.
People were still constantlyforgetting to unmute themselves
on Zoom because no one knew howto use it or where the unmute
button was.
and you know, and it was earlyenough on where leaders really
had no clue if their businesses,some leaders, no clue if their
businesses would even survivethis.
Like, what's going on?
(23:52):
And I had leaders who would geton Zoom calls with their team
and feel like they needed tohave their Superman or
superwoman cape on.
And everything's gonna be greatand this is wonderful.
and they were showing zerovulnerability.
And it was impacting theirteam's ability to be honest and
vulnerable back with them.
(24:13):
So how do we as leaders balancethe idea of being vulnerable
with the idea of, you know,being authoritative when we need
to and credible when we need to.
Dr. Laura Sicola (24:27):
Yeah, great questions.
the.
Integration of all of thosepieces is challenging and
essential to be a good leader,and they are not mutually
exclusive.
So vulnerability, much likeauthenticity, these are, we tend
(24:49):
to look at all these words and.
miscategorize them as binary.
This is me.
That's not me.
This is authentic.
That's inauthentic.
This is vulnerable, this isstrong.
You can be massively strong inyour vulnerability if you are
confident in sharing that.
You know, a great example I liketo use, are you familiar with
Brene Brown?
Mike (25:09):
Absolutely.
Dr. Laura Sicola (25:10):
So I think anybody who's not out there,
please go watch any of her TEDtalks.
Frankly, I think TEDx Houstonwas the one that went to like
200 million views or something.
but her talk is all aboutvulnerability and shame and
whatnot, and leadership.
But she's such a greatstoryteller and half of her
stories are about her ownfoibles.
Mistakes that she made along theway, things, where she was
insecure about something, etcetera, but she shares them in a
(25:34):
way that a, is so relatable thatyou find yourself laughing along
with her, not at her and going,oh my gosh, that's me too.
Yes, I've done the same thing.
I know where you are.
And, but she owns it.
As she's sharing and she's like,this is what was happening.
This is what was going throughmy head.
This was my fear.
This was the mistake I made.
(25:54):
This was the reaction that Ihad.
And it's, she's not saying it ina way, and this goes back to our
original conversation aboutcontent and delivery.
She shares it in a way thatsays, yes, I recognize that's
what happened.
I recognize that.
That was my natural reaction.
That was human.
And I'm not apologizing for it.
I'm not ashamed that I did it.
(26:15):
I'm sharing with you.
Honestly, this is me beingvulnerable to you so that you
understand, and this issomething that even, you know,
during COVID or when there's amarket crash or when there's,
you know, anything else, a cyberattack, that we have to address.
You can say, look, here's thechallenge.
Here's the concern.
Here's what we know, here's whatwe don't.
(26:37):
Here's where we're confident andhere's where we're working on
it.
And as long as you're clear andintentional and honest, you can
show the vulnerability.
It's not about saying, Heyhackers, let me show you where
there's a hole in my wall.
Not that kind of vulnerability.
I'm not trying to teach you howto kill me with one blow, but
(26:58):
it's sharing the reality andbringing people in to work
together to strengthen theindividuals and the collective.
Mike (27:08):
So I wanna bring us back to that leadership table and
one, one of the, one of thechallenges I see in leaders is.
get incredibly passionate aboutan idea and passion is not a bad
thing at all, but they getincredibly passionate about an
idea and they fight for thatidea with either peers around
(27:34):
the table or the scenario that Iwanna paint is it's a leader and
that leader's direct reports.
And they believe strongly aboutan idea.
and the challenge I found thatI'd love your thoughts on is
there are times that a leader isstating their opinion.
But it's taken as a directivebecause it's coming from the
(27:56):
leader.
How can we as leaders kind ofbalance, Hey, we're also a
member of the team.
We have strong ideas, we haveopinions, but sometimes when we
state our opinion, especiallywhen we state it strongly, we
shut everybody else up.
How, as leaders could we stateour opinion, but still make sure
(28:17):
the right conversation ishappening in the room.
Dr. Laura Sicola (28:21):
one, of course is knowing your audience because
if you have a team of people whoare similarly, outgoing, not
afraid to voice their opinion,not afraid to challenge, and
there's natural proactivedebate, you've got a team of,
we'll call them verbalbasketball players.
(28:41):
Everybody gets on the floor andscrambles.
That's the nature of the beast.
So to just, to make sure thateverybody has given input is a
little bit easier.
If you have a team of people whotend to be more reserved, tend
to be less, proactive in justjumping in to the conversations
(29:02):
in particular, then.
It is going to be important tomake sure that you have
solicited the input of those,especially, and more often than
not, the teams are going to bemixed.
You'll have those who willdominate conversations, and
you'll have those who tend to,sit back a little bit more,
observe, maybe chime in later,or they'll come around and,
(29:23):
they'll lobby outside of theroom and speak to different
people, maybe come to youafterwards with their ideas.
so you may need to actively,Pull them out in the moment and
ask their thoughts and opinions.
Another part of course, ismaking sure that at the end of
the topic, if you think it's theend of the topic of the
(29:43):
conversation, whether it's theend of the meeting or otherwise,
make sure that somebody is, hascaptured, and can reiterate what
is the understanding about whatwe're doing with this moving
forward.
Or what is the understanding ofwhere, what the status is?
Because if someone can come backto you and say, so you want us
to do this?
And you go, no, where'd you getthat?
They're going?
'cause it's what came outta yourmouth.
(30:04):
I thought that's what you saidwhen you said this.
So that is a chance.
You can't be the one to recap.
Okay, so we're gonna do this,and this.
Ask the room to feed back to youwhat the, and collectively
reconstruct the takeaways, thedeliverables.
the next steps, et cetera.
'cause that will share a lot to,to identify where there has been
(30:27):
a gap between what youunderstood and what they
understood.
Mike (30:32):
Yeah, I love that and one of the distinctions I've seen
work well is.
You know, I think it's okay tobe passionate about an idea, but
I've seen leaders that arepassionate and their goal is to
win the argument as opposed tothe goal being, I'm gonna be
passionate, but my goal is togather the information we need
(30:54):
so that we can make the rightdecision.
And you could still bepassionate about your idea, but
then say, Hey, I know some ofyou disagree with me.
There's some smart people inthis room.
Help me understand what I'mmissing.
Dr. Laura Sicola (31:06):
Yep.
And that's a great phrase.
They help me understand, becausethat's very open.
It's very, It's an invitation.
It has a little bit of humilityto it.
another direction that peoplecan go also is to say, if we
were, if we go this way, youknow, here's what I really want.
I really think this is the rightway to go.
What possible obstacles wouldthere be?
(31:28):
Or what would we have to, takecare of to make this happen?
So if allowing other people thento voice their concerns because
then they can say, well, if wedo that, then what about X?
Or, you know, this project,would we table that?
What about the resources?
What about the timing?
these various collaborators andpartners whose buy-in would we
(31:49):
need?
I perceive there being a problemwith regard to X if we do that.
So we're exploring all of thepossible.
You're thinking ahead.
You're thinking through it.
And so that's a question thatalso invites discussion and
says, I'm open to hearing theproblems, but I still wanna talk
about my idea.
Mike (32:07):
with so much communication now happening virtually, whether
it's with your team or withclients, or with vendors, is
there any difference in howleaders.
Use their voice or, you know,tone or eye contact or body
language.
Is there any difference when weare having these conversations
(32:30):
virtually versus being live andin person?
Or is it all the same stuff?
Dr. Laura Sicola (32:36):
Yes.
And, the same principles alwaysapply.
Good communication is goodcommunication.
I find that.
In the virtual space, people'sstandard slide, they are less
thinking about it.
It's like, ugh, I have to behere again.
I don't wanna see myself.
the number of teams that I'veworked with, where the default
is to have cameras off, I findmind boggling.
(32:58):
Sure.
Once in a while.
Okay.
You can have them off for somereason.
Or if you need to turn it offfor a minute to go and grab a
tissue or do whatever it happensto be.
Okay, turn it off, turn it backon.
But.
When you can't see each other,there's a difference in the kind
of bond that you create, thekind of connection you have.
(33:20):
If you're talking and you don'tsee any faces, you don't even
know if somebody's present.
They could have left to walk thedog 20 minutes ago and not be
back yet, you don't know whatthey're doing.
So there's a lack of trust andthere is an abundance of
assumption.
When the cameras are off.
So I think having the eyecontact with people, helps to
really get to know who your teamis and maintain that even in the
(33:43):
virtual remote space.
but even the way people show up,people don't know how to, I'm
constantly baffled by how mostpeople show up on Zoom, even
five years.
Into this whole remote work.
It's like they should renamethemselves with a disclaimer
that says, I just want you toknow if you met me in person,
you'd be impressed.
(34:04):
Because they just sit there andtheir heads are way down here at
the bottom of the screen.
You get the ceiling and all thelight fixtures and fans going on
above them.
They're in the dark or they'resuper backlit by their window.
They look like they're inwitness protection instead of
data protection.
They have terrible microphones.
Nobody is aware of how their ownmicrophones make them sound, and
so you really, this is anotherreason to go and listen to your
(34:25):
recording from your Zoom or yourteam's meeting because you'll
see how you sound compared toeverybody else.
Most microphones sound likethis.
Who wants to listen to the guywho sounds like this?
The answer is nobody.
This is what you wanna listento, and it changes.
Again, like you mentioned in thebeginning, I'm a cognitive
linguist when you have to part,kind of work your way through
(34:47):
the fog, just to understand.
What someone's words are.
you're, there's way too muchcognitive burden.
People are going, Ugh.
I, it's too hard to figure outwhat he's talking about.
I think I'll multitask, whichmeans listen to pay attention to
everything except you.
And they don't.
They can't process.
They're working too hard tocatch the words, so they're not
(35:09):
gonna be bothered trying tofigure out the meaning, how they
feel about it, how they wannarespond.
So everybody desperately needsto upgrade their microphones.
Nobody should be using theembedded microphone in your
computers.
If you're a senior leader in asuccessful company, drop 150
bucks on a decent microphone.
I'm happy to send yourecommendations, but you need to
(35:31):
sound.
As clear as your thoughts are inyour head.
So, the, all of these thingscontribute to whether or not
people feel your presence, feelyour passion, and feel that
connection with you.
Mike (35:44):
It's so important.
what I'm taking from that is thesame way we talked earlier about
certain habits impacting yourability to influence like the up
speak or monotone or things likethat.
When we are.
Virtual.
There are a whole bunch ofthings about our microphone or
(36:04):
our lighting or whether peopleare, like you said, I'm on, in,
on Zoom calls with people whereI see them from like the eyes up
or the, and it's like, are you,how do you not know this is
happening?
But all those things.
And, you know, it, what you'rehelping me understand is it
makes that communication evenmore.
Complex, if that's the rightword, is that all of the same
(36:26):
things apply to the up speak andthe vocal fry and the monotone,
but now it could be our lightingor our microphone or our webcam
that could be having the samenegative impact on our ability
to get our ideas across.
Dr. Laura Sicola (36:40):
A hundred percent and people get really
self-conscious.
It's like, oh, I put on weight,or I'm getting too gray, or I
don't like the wrinkles in myface.
Or, you know, all these kinds ofthings that, that I hear from
clients as far as where they're,self-conscious on being on
camera.
So sometimes, yeah, they dodeliberately put themselves away
at the bottom of the screen.
'cause they don't wanna.
See themselves, and it's likeyou are leading a hundred
(37:03):
million dollar company.
If you were standing in front ofthe board, would you say, I
don't want you to see me.
I'm gonna hide behind the podiumbecause I put on 10 pounds last
year or whatever.
Of course not.
You're not gonna judge yourselfworth based on how you look,
you're.
Dress appropriately.
You're gonna groom yourself.
You're going to show upappropriate for the context.
(37:25):
But it's not like if anybodysaid to you, Hey, you know what?
You shouldn't, I don't thinkyou're worthy of your role
because you look X, oh my gosh,lawsuits, you'd be up in arms,
all sorts of stuff going on.
So why are you gonna do that toyourself?
Own the screen.
The same way you would own theroom.
You're running the company.
(37:47):
Get over whatever the mentalblocks are.
Step up, show up, turn on thecamera, speak into the mic.
Own the screen.
Lead that way first.
Mike (38:00):
And I love the excuse, and I hear this all the time, and
maybe it's not always a.
Bullshit excuse.
But I think most of the time itis.
It's like, oh, I'm having a badinternet connection today.
There's something wrong with mywifi.
That's why I am not on, oncamera.
And my thought is, okay, ifthat's bs, you know, cut the
crap and let's get on camera anddo it the right way.
(38:21):
second thing is, if that's true.
Part of being a leader and beingable to communicate and
influence, then go fix your damninternet connection and stop
using that same excuse, Laurafor the leader listening today.
You know, one.
One action we've already talkedabout, which I'm gonna recommend
(38:42):
people do right away, is recordyourself.
And it's way easier today thanthat ever was.
You know, you could do thatright on your phone, put it on
the desk and record.
Or you could do that while, youknow, while you're on a Zoom
call, use Otter or use applaud.
Whatever you need to use, go doit.
So, so that, that's one action.
(39:03):
But what's one thing as we startto, to wrap up, what's one
thing.
A leader should do in their nextmeeting to kind of instantly
increase their credibility,their influence, by using their
voice.
What's one more tip that wouldhelp with that in somebody's
next meeting?
Dr. Laura Sicola (39:24):
Paint a picture with the voice and with
the words.
Share a story, share an analogy,share a case study, but bring me
in to the, being able toenvision the result, you know,
the cause or the effect of whatit is that we're trying to
(39:46):
achieve here.
Remind me why we're doing this.
Give me an example of a clientyou worked with.
Where were they?
Where are they?
Or who are you trying to help?
Now, if you're bringing a newcancer drug to the market or
something, what's the, orcybersecurity, some new,
software development, et cetera.
Who are the latest actors?
(40:06):
Who's the child that you met?
Who has this, or a picture of achild that you've got?
Help me connect, help me as alistener to feel.
In my heart, in my stomach, on avisceral level, what we're
trying to achieve and why.
Who are we helping?
Now, maybe you're not curingcancer or you know, solving the
world from the cyber attackthat's going to be the next
(40:29):
Armageddon.
But you do what you do for areason.
Remind people what that is.
What's an excitement?
What's a the we need to inspire,not just inform.
And I'll geek out on you for 10seconds here, Mike.
The word inspire.
The etymology of that word.
We talk a lot about being aninspiring leader.
Well, to inspire literally comesfrom inspirare in Latin, which
(40:53):
translates to, to breathe lifeinto or to breathe spirit into
something.
So when you are talking to yourpeople, whoever they are you
just letting words fall out ofyour mouth?
Hoping they pick up them up andput them together in a logical
order and do something usefulwith them.
Or do you breathe life into yourmessage?
(41:13):
Do you breathe life into yourteam?
Do you get them on board in thatcollective life energy?
To ride forward with thatmotivation, to get that, to turn
that vision into the reality,that's what tends to be missing
more often than not.
Mike (41:28):
Yeah, and a real example I can think of there, and it's not
so much inspiring the team, itwas more of an example of
managing up.
But I was in a meeting with theleadership team and the number
two on the team was said.
well, we could do these things,but everybody's so overwhelmed
(41:48):
right now.
I think we're doing too much.
And that's the way it wascommunicated.
Now, that's not a vivid picture.
Those are words and the CEO.
Took that and painted her ownpicture of what that meant.
And in her mind, that meant youare trying to protect your
(42:09):
people.
you know, I'm working hard.
Why shouldn't everybody else beworking hard?
Is this really everybody or isit just one or two people?
Like it actually didn't help thenumber two person get their
point across it hurt.
but instead, if they would'vesaid, Hey, I spoke to.
(42:30):
You know, Susan yesterday aboutwhat she was doing.
Paint the picture of what'sgoing on.
Paint the picture of anotherexample versus just saying
people are overwhelmed.
I think we're doing too much.
So, so I think it's not just.
Influencing down and painting apicture of an inspiring vision.
It could, it's influence.
It's communicating anywhere,whether it's to a peer, whether
(42:53):
it's up, whether it's down, butjust using vivid examples and
stories to inspire or breathelife into.
I think it's is such animportant point.
Dr. Laura Sicola (43:05):
Yes.
Being specific, giving thosecase studies, those examples,
what does.
People mean what does too muchmean?
Too much of what maybe you'redoing a lot of stuff that is
utterly inefficient or notpriority at all.
When you look at that Eisenhowermatrix about what's urgent
versus what's important, are youspending an awful lot of time
(43:25):
just putting out little menialfires?
Are you doing stuff that couldbe delegated?
Are you doing a lot of busy workthat, or working on a project
where when we compare it to whatwe're talking about now, that
needs to be put on the backburner?
Yes.
Okay.
You're working a lot, but.
Let's reprioritize, let'sreevaluate.
So there are other discussionsthat need to be had clearly, but
just too much is not itselfevidence of, the reason to make
(43:51):
a particular decision.
Mike (43:54):
And this is an area when it comes to communicating to
influence others.
You may be wonderful at ittoday, but you can get better.
You may be crappy at it todayand you need to get better, but
I, but there's never a pointwhere it's like, Hey.
I'm communicating.
Great.
I don't need to think about thisanymore.
A, you could always get better.
(44:15):
B, you could fall into badhabits if you're not careful.
So that being said, what aresome of the ways that you work
with clients?
I guess first, who are yourtypical clients and what are the
different ways that you workwith them?
Dr. Laura Sicola (44:29):
thank you.
The typical clients are,Mid-market to higher to the
larger enterprise organizations.
You mentioned Accenture andAmazon in the beginning.
Comcast, but also some smallerones as well.
it is typically the seniorleadership team or a level or so
down to SVP, VP, depending onthe size of the company.
(44:50):
Those labels can mean a lot ofdifferent things, but the idea
is when.
An individual or a team is greatas the brains behind the
operation, but not so great asthe face and the voice in front
of it, of the initiative.
How do you get people totranslate their vision, skill,
(45:11):
expertise, ideas, et cetera, tobe able to get other
stakeholders of all sorts onboard?
And a lot of it is aboutexecutive presence.
Whether they're the bull in theChina shop or they're a little
too much of a wallflower orsomething in between.
succession planning is also areally big issue because you've
(45:33):
got those who've risen throughthe ranks because of their
technical skill and they've nowhit, or they're about to hit
what I call the linguistic glassceiling.
So they have that skill, but tomove up to the next level, it's
not about your skill anymore.
There's that lateral shift, andnow it's about how you lead
people, how you communicate.
If you came up through the ranksthrough tech, you came up
(45:54):
through the ranks, throughfinance.
You like your numbers, you likeyour spreadsheets, you like your
camera off, you don't like totalk a whole lot, et cetera.
Why would people think you're anatural fit for a top leadership
position?
You may have said for 20 years,well, I want my work to speak
for itself.
Well, congrats.
It does.
It just doesn't speak for you.
What your work now has toldeverybody is that you belong
(46:16):
staying exactly where you areexecuting those tasks, not
leading other people.
So it's time to quickly closethat gap so that you're those
soft skills, which ironicallyare hard now rise to the same
level as that tacticalexpertise.
And I help people close that gapto get ready for that senior
most promotion.
Mike (46:37):
Is it typical working one-on-one with folks, working
with a group?
Is it both?
Dr. Laura Sicola (46:42):
It's both.
the, usually if I'm working withsomebody in the C-suite, or a
level, maybe SVPs, it's gonna beone-on-one.
And.
You know, a year give or takeworth of coaching.
Sometimes it extends past that,obviously.
I do a lot of team trainingswith groups on breaking the
expert's curse on speaking toinfluence on aligning that
verbal, vocal and visual thingslike we were talking about
(47:03):
before, board presentations.
sometimes it's more, what's theright word?
More short term focused.
So I've worked with a lot ofhealthcare systems, for example,
where they have to respond toRFPs.
So they have to put together amassive team presentation.
They'll spend six months puttingtogether this presentation to
bid on a particular contract.
(47:24):
so that's more focused asopposed to working with a team
on.
Big picture skill developmentmoving forward, and so it does
definitely range, but it's allabout helping people step up
their executive presence and beseen as that trusted, confident,
credible leader that others wantto follow.
Mike (47:46):
If people wanna find out more about you and what you do,
what's the best place for themto go?
Dr. Laura Sicola (47:51):
my website, very easy.
LauraSicola.com.
Not terribly creative orcryptic.
So, LauraSicola.com.
Check it out there.
And of course, if you'd like tofollow on LinkedIn, or any of my
other social media platforms,would love to connect.
Mike (48:04):
Well, I always say if you want a great company, you need a
great leadership team.
Laura, thanks for helping us getthere today.
Dr. Laura Sicola (48:10):
Thank you so much for the invitation, Mike.
Loved every minute of it.
let's not use the word authentic to justify
unconscious habits.
Let's look at what do you wantto have as the impact of your
speech?
How do you want people to feel?
About what you're saying.
What do you want to make themthink about?
And what result do you want toget?
(00:23):
What decision, what action, whatbehavior do you want them to
take?
Now, go back and look at yourown message.
Listen to your message, watchyour video, and ask yourself.
What in this message, contentand delivery is going to compel
that person to behave andrespond the way I want them to,
(00:45):
or what might be undermining myown success.
Be objective about it.
That's the key.
Mike Goldman (00:59):
You made it to the better leadership team show, the
place where you learn how tosurround yourself with the right
people, doing the right things.
So you can grow your businesswithout losing your mind.
I'm your host and leadershipteam coach, Mike Goldman.
I'm going to show you how toimprove top and bottom line
growth, fulfillment, and thevalue your company adds to the
(01:19):
world by building a betterleadership team.
All right, let's go.
Mike (01:33):
Dr.
Laura Sicola has coached Fortune500 leaders, advise TED speakers
and help top executives becomethe voice of the vision.
She's a cognitive linguist,that's tough to say.
And former professor turned,executive coach and the author
of Speaking to Influence.
Mastering your leadership voicewith nearly 7 million views on
(01:57):
her TEDx talk and a clientroster, including Amazon and
Kaiser Permanente.
Laura helps leaders masterpresence, persuasion, and
influence when the stakes arehigh.
As leaders, we need to influenceour teams, our clients, our
vendors.
That's what we're gonna talkabout today.
Laura, welcome to the show.
Dr. Laura Sicola (02:16):
Thank you so much for having me today, Mike.
Looking forward to it.
Mike (02:19):
Same here.
Same here.
Laura, from all of yourexperience, what do you believe
is the one most importantcharacteristic of a great
leadership team?
Dr. Laura Sicola (02:29):
without a doubt, Mike, a great leadership
team has to be willing and ableto communicate proactively and
directly and diplomatically allat the same time, and that's a
challenge for a lot.
But if you're not willing totalk in the first place, the
door just closed.
Mike (02:50):
Love that.
And I have a feeling we're gonnabe diving into that,
Dr. Laura Sicola (02:53):
Yes, we will.
Mike (02:53):
more detail, in this
Dr. Laura Sicola (02:55):
that door.
Mike (02:55):
Yeah.
So, so I wanna start out thatthere's, you know, you talk
about the difference betweenwhat leaders say and what others
actually hear,
Dr. Laura Sicola (03:06):
Yes,
Mike (03:06):
do most leaders get it wrong?
Dr. Laura Sicola (03:11):
the, we all get stuck in what I like to
refer to as the expert's curse.
And that is where, look, we'vebeen in our own fields, in our
own industries and the companiesfor however long, and so we have
built up this amazing expertise,which is wonderful, except that
it blinds us to what's topeople, where people are who are
(03:35):
not.
As expert as we are in thoseareas.
So we forget what's not obviousto others.
What's not intuitive orinteresting or necessary to
others.
How much do we need to explain?
How many, how much detail dothey need?
How much vision do they alreadyhave?
So when we just talk like theyshould know what I mean, because
in my head it's crystal clear.
(03:56):
So I'll say it in a way that'scrystal clear to me.
Not taking into account theirperspective, their competing
needs, their challenges, all ofthose things.
We're just going to be creatingthat ever widening gap between
what we think we say and whatthey think they hear.
Mike (04:12):
And you talked about vision and as one of the
examples in there, and itsparked a thought and I think
we'll probably spend a good partof our time together talking
about kind of the subtlenuances.
The distinctions and how wespeak.
But I actually wanna start outtalking about how repetitive.
We need to be.
And the reason why I thought ofthat when I thought of vision is
(04:34):
very often when I work with aleadership team early on, the
CEO believes everyone is awareand everyone is an enthusiastic
follower, evangelist of thecompany vision.
They believe that.
And the rest of the leadershipteam says something like.
(04:56):
I'd like to be, but I'm not surewhat the vision is.
and the challenge sometimes isthe CEO, you know, over dinner
three years ago when everybodywas on their second drink,
espoused his or her vision ofthe world and now expects,
everybody knows it.
Half the people weren't there.
Half the people were on theirsecond drink, as I said.
(05:17):
So talk a little bit about theimportance of repetition.
Dr. Laura Sicola (05:23):
So there's a.
I think when we look in from theworld of education in many ways,
and parenting for that matter,the notion of repetition gets a
bad rap because it's just theidea of beating the dead horse
there.
But the right kind of repetitionis about reinforcement.
We are constantly competing forpeople's attention and the
(05:45):
likelihood of anybody hearingwhat you said the first time,
much less processing it orretaining it is very low.
So we do have to keep repeatingthe vision because the vision is
the why.
It's the rationale.
It's the why are you here beyondpunching a clock and cashing a
paycheck.
It's, you could do thatanywhere.
(06:06):
And we wanna have people who arehere because they're passionate
about what we are seeking, thechange we wanna make in the
world.
If you're just here punching aclock, cashing a check, you may
not be a great fit for this.
The work is gonna suffer, theteamwork is gonna suffer and
it's gonna, there's a little bitof a, a way that it is kind of
(06:26):
cancerous frankly, through theorganization.
You want people who areinspired.
By what you are collectivelydoing and by their individual
roles in achieving that.
So if you're not explicitlyestablishing what that is on a
regular basis, and it needs tobe oral and in writing.
You need to discuss it, make itpart of it, and it needs to be
(06:49):
visible someplace where peopleare going to regularly see it,
to be reminded that's theobjective for all of us.
Mike (06:55):
Now I wanna bring us to a different scenario where now
imagine we are in the.
the executive conference room,that's probably an old term.
The executive conference room.
We're in a conference room.
Dr. Laura Sicola (07:06):
executive zoom room now.
Mike (07:08):
Yeah.
Well, it could be virtual,right?
but imagine where, you know,where the, it's a meeting with
the leadership team and in thatleadership team setting.
Sometimes even the best ideawill lose if it's not delivered
in the right way.
So what have you seen a, as theright vocal or communication
(07:29):
habits that help leaders winbuy-in from their peers around
the table.
Dr. Laura Sicola (07:38):
So there's two sides of the coin in influence
in general.
In speech, there's the.
the content and there's thedelivery, right?
The what you say and the how yousay it.
And there's that old adage.
It's not what you say, it's howyou say it that matters.
No.
What's massively, what's mostimportant is that they are
aligned.
(07:58):
You can't have one without theother.
And typically people atexecutive conference room, or
any room for that matter, tendto default to focusing on the
what.
It's like as long as my slidesare accurate, as long as my
spreadsheets are complete, aslong as my talking points are
cohesive.
That's good enough.
That's fine if you're going tosend me a report to read, but if
(08:20):
you're going to present it tome, then it's about the delivery
that drives it home.
That helps me hear what you needme to hear.
and even within the content, areyou gonna go through every cell
in the spreadsheet?
Please Don't talk to me like ahuman spreadsheet.
Tell me what's behind thosenumbers.
Tell me the story behind it.
Tell me why these things matter.
What are we, the story?
We go right back to that vision.
(08:41):
I need to understand what's.
Not on the slide.
All the pieces that come, thatbring it together, and in the
delivery.
It's about not being monotoneand just going through things.
It's not about making it soundlike it's a giant list, like
you're making your grocery list,I need apples and pears and
(09:01):
bananas and milk, and I'm askinga bunch of questions and just
going through the motions withthat rising like, and that's how
most people, not just youngwomen, which is the stereotype,
older people, men, Y chromosomeis not a vaccine.
So there's.
that sound of, I'm going throughthe motions as opposed to,
here's what I need you tounderstand.
(09:22):
I'm going to make a point.
Here's what I'm gonna emphasize,and here's where my voice is
gonna drop.
Because that's a period and youneed to understand the gravitas
of my, of this concept.
Now, when your voice is risingand lowering, emphasizing at the
right moments, and you have thebody language to go along with
it, it pulls people in and theyfeel the message beyond just
(09:43):
hearing it.
Mike (11:06):
And if we have built a.
I was gonna say style ofspeaking, but maybe that's the
wrong phrase.
If we built habits of the voicerising at the end and the
question mark, and maybe you canget into a couple of other bad
ha.
Well, actually let's do that.
'cause what I wanna do is talkabout what some of those bad
habits are.
So someone listening could say.
(11:27):
Oh crap, I do that.
what are two or three of the badhabits?
And then I wanna dive into ifthey're habits, how do you
change?
It's hard to change a habit.
So what are some more of the,you know, other than that, you
know, feeling like everythingyou say is a question.
What are some other bad habitsyou see leaders get into?
Dr. Laura Sicola (11:49):
The, so yes, that question like tone, that's
called uptalk or up speak, whichis very common.
The, you mentioned something,one moment ago.
The notion of people listeningto this and going, oh, crap, I
do that.
Here's the bigger challenge,Mike.
People will listen and go, well,I don't do that.
Somebody else does that, but Idon't do that.
Oh, yes, you do.
(12:10):
That's the problem.
We don't hear what everybodyelse hears, literally when we
are speaking.
So I'm gonna encourage, I'mgonna go first into the, I'll
reverse the order of yourquestions.
Mike.
What do we do first and then.
About what?
And the, what we do is you needto start recording yourself and
listening.
If you're on Zoom, hit therecord button or just take your
smartphone.
If you're not gonna record thegroup meeting necessarily, but
(12:33):
put on your video or your audiorecorder and just record
yourself.
Prop the phone up against themonitor of your computer, and
then go back.
You don't have to watch thewhole thing.
Two minutes here.
Two minutes there, just see howyou made your point, but you
will see more in those two tofive minutes of watching
yourself in your naturalhabitat, as it were, the way
(12:54):
that you naturally speak to yourcoworkers than you would ever
have realized.
Now, nobody likes watchingthemselves on video.
I'm on video so much.
I'm sick of my own face by theend of most days.
I don't learn to love it.
I learn to appreciate it andrecognize how fast.
I can get clear on what waseffective and what I need to
(13:15):
optimize.
So that's the how.
any point you wanna make on thatbefore I go into answering your
Mike (13:20):
No, let's talk about if that's the how.
And I like it.
I imagine people will watchthemselves until they get
totally disgusted after they seeall the things they're doing,
they're not doing right.
but I love that how, but yeah,let's dive into.
When we do that, when we'rewatching and listening to
ourselves, what should we belooking for?
what are some of those badhabits that get in our way?
Dr. Laura Sicola (13:42):
The beauty is when you watch your own video
from that kind of objectivethird party perspective.
I don't even need to give alist.
I will, but I don't because youimmediately, within 10 to 15
seconds ago, oh my gosh, whatwas I saying there?
I did X, I just did Y, I justdid Z.
Like who is that person on thecamera That has seems to have
taken over my body.
(14:03):
It looks like me.
But I can't possibly sound likethat, can I?
Or what was I doing with myface?
Or all sorts of little thingsthat we didn't realize we were
doing in the moment.
So even if somebody zones forthe next two minutes of this
conversation, just watch thevideo.
You'll figure it out on yourown.
You're a smart cookie, but the.
Okay.
So as far as suggestions on whatto look for, tonality in the
(14:26):
voice is a really important one.
So there's the traditional, andI'll date myself on this,
reference here, but the FerrisBueller's Day Off.
The Bueller.
Bueller.
anyone, I'm just gonna bemonotone my way through if you
don't know what I'm talkingabout.
You have homework, go to Netflixor I don't know, Amazon or
something, wherever it'srecorded.
Watch Ferris Bueller's Day off,John Hughes flick.
(14:48):
1987 or something along thoselines.
Great stuff.
but the monotone where it soundslike you don't even care about
what you're talking about.
Well, if you don't care, whyshould I care?
So you're automaticallydisengaging with the audience
from your content and from you.
the other piece, vocallyspeaking, is what is called,
(15:11):
vocal fry.
Okay.
And that's where you tend to sitdown in your lowest register and
there's not enough air, there'snot enough breath support.
And you can hear what I'm doingright now and it's just kind of
gravelly and I'm croaking my waythrough everything.
And it gives a different, peoplewill have different
interpretations of how itsounds.
I'm curious how it sounds toyou, Mike, if I were to kind of
have the rest of thisconversation down here.
Mike (15:31):
it, it sounds that I've heard people do it to me.
it, it's probably not true, butit sounds like.
it's a purposeful affect.
Like someone is doing that andit's like I'm showing the world
that I don't care very muchabout what's going on.
that's just the immediatereaction I have.
Dr. Laura Sicola (15:48):
And that's the point is that all of these
things, even with the uptalk andthat question like tone or mono,
monotony, et cetera.
Some of, sometimes they arelegitimately reflecting, maybe
an uncertainty with the uptalkor, I'm so tired, I just really
wanna go home and take a nap.
I can't stand it.
but that's not always the case.
(16:09):
And this is where we doourselves a great disservice
because it projects the affectthat seems to be.
You don't care.
You don't wanna be here, you aretoo good for me.
Or you're really hesitant andhoping that, I don't know if
you're gonna like what I'msaying, so I'm gonna just kinda
let the words trickle outta mymouth.
(16:30):
I'm not so confident right now.
It's all negative affect, noneof it.
all the perceptions, whetherthey are accurate or not.
All of those impressions thatpeople tend to infer.
When we use those behaviors, saythings like, I'm not confident,
I'm not passionate, I don'tcare.
I'm too, I lack energy orconviction.
(16:53):
it's, it says everything butleadership qualities.
So we need to have, and it's notabout volume.
While I'm not gonna yell to beclear, no, you can use a soft
voice and still be clear andintentional and focused.
So it's recognizing.
When I listen to myself, whenyou listen to your own video,
(17:14):
does it sound like you trulybelieve in what you're saying,
that it matters to you and youtruly believe that it needs to
matter to me?
That's what you're looking for,broadly speaking.
Mike (17:28):
So I am, I'm.
practicing my psychic abilities.
And I'm hearing, I'm hearing thethoughts of folks listening to
this and I would imagine thereare people that are thinking,
this is just naturally how Italk.
And yeah, I could listen to it,but me purposefully changing how
(17:50):
I speak in order to influence.
Doesn't sound very quote unquoteauthentic, to use a word that we
hear probably way too often,these days without people
knowing what it actually means.
How, let's dig into that alittle bit.
Dr. Laura Sicola (18:07):
Yes.
Thank you for bringing that up.
So those who say, well, I don't,I changing how I speak to do
more, what, well, let me ask youa question.
If I said, like, you know,after, like every sentence, that
I was saying like, wouldn't thatlike be annoying to you, like,
and undermine what I'm saying?
Wouldn't you be like.
(18:27):
Oh my gosh, Laura, stop.
I have to change the channel.
I can't listen to you anymore.
Well, but what if that's how Ispeak?
What if that's my natural way?
You're going?
Well, that's not working for me.
So either you change or I'mgonna find somebody else.
Well, that's how everyone iswith everyone else.
So just because you have built abad habit, most likely
(18:50):
unconsciously, it doesn't meanthat is quote unquote
authentically you.
It means you got a bad habit.
Yeah, if you sat there andtwirled your hair the entire
time, or you know, I have anine-year-old at home, so I'll
use a gross analogy.
If you sat there picking yournose unconsciously as a habit,
you are gonna call it authentic.
No.
So let's not use the wordauthentic to justify unconscious
(19:12):
habits.
Let's look at what do you wantto have as the impact of your
speech?
How do you want people to feel?
About what you're saying.
What do you want to make themthink about?
And what result do you want toget?
What decision, what action, whatbehavior do you want them to
(19:34):
take?
Now, go back and look at yourown message.
Listen to your message, watchyour video, and ask yourself.
What in this message, contentand delivery is going to compel
that person to behave andrespond the way I want them to,
or what might be undermining myown success.
(19:57):
Be objective about it.
That's the key.
Mike (19:59):
I love that and I could relate to that in my own life.
Not so much in meetings, but formany.
Part of what I do is I'm akeynote speaker and for many
years, you know, I was, I usedto think I'm naturally, you
know, I'm naturally an excellentspeaker.
Well, it turns out I wasnaturally.
(20:19):
Okay.
I was naturally pretty good, butpart of the reason why I think I
was just okay or pretty good, myideas weren't so bad, but I have
a, this habit, even when I'm onthe phone and Zoom is really
hard for me to just sit in oneplace when I'm on the phone.
I pace back and forth as I'mtalking, and I would do the same
thing on stage.
I feel so passionate about whatI'm talking about.
(20:42):
I'm running all over the stageand my hands are all over the
place, and I thought.
That shows my passion.
That's a good thing, not a badthing.
I don't wanna just stand behinda podium.
And for years I resisted gettingany kind of coaching on my
speaking because it would makeme, it, I'd lose my authenticity
as a speaker.
And what I learned is the more Imoved around on stage, or you
(21:08):
know, whether it was my feet,you know, or my hands, it was
actually hurting people'sability to get my.
Message, even though that wasquote unquote natural for me, I
had to learn like, like pickingyour nose.
I needed to learn how to stopthat bad habit because it was
absolutely getting in the way ofmy message.
Dr. Laura Sicola (21:29):
Yes.
And the key word here, Mike, isdistraction.
What is it about what we'resaying or how we're saying where
we're moving, what we're doingwith our hands?
If we're pacing, if we arefidgeting, if we're using any of
those vocal ticks that we talkedabout, that is distracting the
listener's ability to focus onwhat we actually want them to
(21:53):
focus on.
So where are we sabotaging ourown effectiveness?
And that may vary from audienceto audience.
You know, if you're with,there's something called
matching and mirroring.
And if you are with someonewho's, you know, a very reserved
kind of person, they tend tothink quite a bit before they
(22:13):
speak.
They don't gesture much.
They use a softer voice.
They are more paced.
Now, I'm not mimicking them, butI'm not gonna be my Super Jersey
girl, Italian extroverted self.
I'm not gonna go off that deepend and not, they'll feel
totally overwhelmed.
It's not being inauthentic to.
(22:34):
Tone it down a little bit.
It's just recognizing I don'twanna overwhelm her.
This is still me.
I don't have to be over the topall the time.
Now, if I'm with somebody elsewho's super energetic and
enthusiastic and talks withtheir hands and moves all over
the place, then sure, I'll dialit up a little bit.
I own both of those degrees ofenergy and I prefer one or the
(22:57):
other, but I have access toboth.
So.
Why shouldn't I adjust in a waythat's going to help me connect,
that's going to help the otherperson, to feel like they
understand me.
So little details make a bigdifference.
Mike (23:10):
Yeah.
And that's not beinginauthentic.
that's being smart.
Now the other word that is usedway more now than it ever was,
and it's a word I love, I use itall the time.
So I don't say this in anegative way, but that word is
vulnerable or vulnerability.
And I could remember back whenCOVID hit early on and we were
(23:32):
remote where we hadn't beenremote before.
People were still constantlyforgetting to unmute themselves
on Zoom because no one knew howto use it or where the unmute
button was.
and you know, and it was earlyenough on where leaders really
had no clue if their businesses,some leaders, no clue if their
businesses would even survivethis.
Like, what's going on?
(23:52):
And I had leaders who would geton Zoom calls with their team
and feel like they needed tohave their Superman or
superwoman cape on.
And everything's gonna be greatand this is wonderful.
and they were showing zerovulnerability.
And it was impacting theirteam's ability to be honest and
vulnerable back with them.
(24:13):
So how do we as leaders balancethe idea of being vulnerable
with the idea of, you know,being authoritative when we need
to and credible when we need to.
Dr. Laura Sicola (24:27):
Yeah, great questions.
the.
Integration of all of thosepieces is challenging and
essential to be a good leader,and they are not mutually
exclusive.
So vulnerability, much likeauthenticity, these are, we tend
(24:49):
to look at all these words and.
miscategorize them as binary.
This is me.
That's not me.
This is authentic.
That's inauthentic.
This is vulnerable, this isstrong.
You can be massively strong inyour vulnerability if you are
confident in sharing that.
You know, a great example I liketo use, are you familiar with
Brene Brown?
Mike (25:09):
Absolutely.
Dr. Laura Sicola (25:10):
So I think anybody who's not out there,
please go watch any of her TEDtalks.
Frankly, I think TEDx Houstonwas the one that went to like
200 million views or something.
but her talk is all aboutvulnerability and shame and
whatnot, and leadership.
But she's such a greatstoryteller and half of her
stories are about her ownfoibles.
Mistakes that she made along theway, things, where she was
insecure about something, etcetera, but she shares them in a
(25:34):
way that a, is so relatable thatyou find yourself laughing along
with her, not at her and going,oh my gosh, that's me too.
Yes, I've done the same thing.
I know where you are.
And, but she owns it.
As she's sharing and she's like,this is what was happening.
This is what was going throughmy head.
This was my fear.
This was the mistake I made.
(25:54):
This was the reaction that Ihad.
And it's, she's not saying it ina way, and this goes back to our
original conversation aboutcontent and delivery.
She shares it in a way thatsays, yes, I recognize that's
what happened.
I recognize that.
That was my natural reaction.
That was human.
And I'm not apologizing for it.
I'm not ashamed that I did it.
(26:15):
I'm sharing with you.
Honestly, this is me beingvulnerable to you so that you
understand, and this issomething that even, you know,
during COVID or when there's amarket crash or when there's,
you know, anything else, a cyberattack, that we have to address.
You can say, look, here's thechallenge.
Here's the concern.
Here's what we know, here's whatwe don't.
(26:37):
Here's where we're confident andhere's where we're working on
it.
And as long as you're clear andintentional and honest, you can
show the vulnerability.
It's not about saying, Heyhackers, let me show you where
there's a hole in my wall.
Not that kind of vulnerability.
I'm not trying to teach you howto kill me with one blow, but
(26:58):
it's sharing the reality andbringing people in to work
together to strengthen theindividuals and the collective.
Mike (27:08):
So I wanna bring us back to that leadership table and
one, one of the, one of thechallenges I see in leaders is.
get incredibly passionate aboutan idea and passion is not a bad
thing at all, but they getincredibly passionate about an
idea and they fight for thatidea with either peers around
(27:34):
the table or the scenario that Iwanna paint is it's a leader and
that leader's direct reports.
And they believe strongly aboutan idea.
and the challenge I found thatI'd love your thoughts on is
there are times that a leader isstating their opinion.
But it's taken as a directivebecause it's coming from the
(27:56):
leader.
How can we as leaders kind ofbalance, Hey, we're also a
member of the team.
We have strong ideas, we haveopinions, but sometimes when we
state our opinion, especiallywhen we state it strongly, we
shut everybody else up.
How, as leaders could we stateour opinion, but still make sure
(28:17):
the right conversation ishappening in the room.
Dr. Laura Sicola (28:21):
one, of course is knowing your audience because
if you have a team of people whoare similarly, outgoing, not
afraid to voice their opinion,not afraid to challenge, and
there's natural proactivedebate, you've got a team of,
we'll call them verbalbasketball players.
(28:41):
Everybody gets on the floor andscrambles.
That's the nature of the beast.
So to just, to make sure thateverybody has given input is a
little bit easier.
If you have a team of people whotend to be more reserved, tend
to be less, proactive in justjumping in to the conversations
(29:02):
in particular, then.
It is going to be important tomake sure that you have
solicited the input of those,especially, and more often than
not, the teams are going to bemixed.
You'll have those who willdominate conversations, and
you'll have those who tend to,sit back a little bit more,
observe, maybe chime in later,or they'll come around and,
(29:23):
they'll lobby outside of theroom and speak to different
people, maybe come to youafterwards with their ideas.
so you may need to actively,Pull them out in the moment and
ask their thoughts and opinions.
Another part of course, ismaking sure that at the end of
the topic, if you think it's theend of the topic of the
(29:43):
conversation, whether it's theend of the meeting or otherwise,
make sure that somebody is, hascaptured, and can reiterate what
is the understanding about whatwe're doing with this moving
forward.
Or what is the understanding ofwhere, what the status is?
Because if someone can come backto you and say, so you want us
to do this?
And you go, no, where'd you getthat?
They're going?
'cause it's what came outta yourmouth.
(30:04):
I thought that's what you saidwhen you said this.
So that is a chance.
You can't be the one to recap.
Okay, so we're gonna do this,and this.
Ask the room to feed back to youwhat the, and collectively
reconstruct the takeaways, thedeliverables.
the next steps, et cetera.
'cause that will share a lot to,to identify where there has been
(30:27):
a gap between what youunderstood and what they
understood.
Mike (30:32):
Yeah, I love that and one of the distinctions I've seen
work well is.
You know, I think it's okay tobe passionate about an idea, but
I've seen leaders that arepassionate and their goal is to
win the argument as opposed tothe goal being, I'm gonna be
passionate, but my goal is togather the information we need
(30:54):
so that we can make the rightdecision.
And you could still bepassionate about your idea, but
then say, Hey, I know some ofyou disagree with me.
There's some smart people inthis room.
Help me understand what I'mmissing.
Dr. Laura Sicola (31:06):
Yep.
And that's a great phrase.
They help me understand, becausethat's very open.
It's very, It's an invitation.
It has a little bit of humilityto it.
another direction that peoplecan go also is to say, if we
were, if we go this way, youknow, here's what I really want.
I really think this is the rightway to go.
What possible obstacles wouldthere be?
(31:28):
Or what would we have to, takecare of to make this happen?
So if allowing other people thento voice their concerns because
then they can say, well, if wedo that, then what about X?
Or, you know, this project,would we table that?
What about the resources?
What about the timing?
these various collaborators andpartners whose buy-in would we
(31:49):
need?
I perceive there being a problemwith regard to X if we do that.
So we're exploring all of thepossible.
You're thinking ahead.
You're thinking through it.
And so that's a question thatalso invites discussion and
says, I'm open to hearing theproblems, but I still wanna talk
about my idea.
Mike (32:07):
with so much communication now happening virtually, whether
it's with your team or withclients, or with vendors, is
there any difference in howleaders.
Use their voice or, you know,tone or eye contact or body
language.
Is there any difference when weare having these conversations
(32:30):
virtually versus being live andin person?
Or is it all the same stuff?
Dr. Laura Sicola (32:36):
Yes.
And, the same principles alwaysapply.
Good communication is goodcommunication.
I find that.
In the virtual space, people'sstandard slide, they are less
thinking about it.
It's like, ugh, I have to behere again.
I don't wanna see myself.
the number of teams that I'veworked with, where the default
is to have cameras off, I findmind boggling.
(32:58):
Sure.
Once in a while.
Okay.
You can have them off for somereason.
Or if you need to turn it offfor a minute to go and grab a
tissue or do whatever it happensto be.
Okay, turn it off, turn it backon.
But.
When you can't see each other,there's a difference in the kind
of bond that you create, thekind of connection you have.
(33:20):
If you're talking and you don'tsee any faces, you don't even
know if somebody's present.
They could have left to walk thedog 20 minutes ago and not be
back yet, you don't know whatthey're doing.
So there's a lack of trust andthere is an abundance of
assumption.
When the cameras are off.
So I think having the eyecontact with people, helps to
really get to know who your teamis and maintain that even in the
(33:43):
virtual remote space.
but even the way people show up,people don't know how to, I'm
constantly baffled by how mostpeople show up on Zoom, even
five years.
Into this whole remote work.
It's like they should renamethemselves with a disclaimer
that says, I just want you toknow if you met me in person,
you'd be impressed.
(34:04):
Because they just sit there andtheir heads are way down here at
the bottom of the screen.
You get the ceiling and all thelight fixtures and fans going on
above them.
They're in the dark or they'resuper backlit by their window.
They look like they're inwitness protection instead of
data protection.
They have terrible microphones.
Nobody is aware of how their ownmicrophones make them sound, and
so you really, this is anotherreason to go and listen to your
(34:25):
recording from your Zoom or yourteam's meeting because you'll
see how you sound compared toeverybody else.
Most microphones sound likethis.
Who wants to listen to the guywho sounds like this?
The answer is nobody.
This is what you wanna listento, and it changes.
Again, like you mentioned in thebeginning, I'm a cognitive
linguist when you have to part,kind of work your way through
(34:47):
the fog, just to understand.
What someone's words are.
you're, there's way too muchcognitive burden.
People are going, Ugh.
I, it's too hard to figure outwhat he's talking about.
I think I'll multitask, whichmeans listen to pay attention to
everything except you.
And they don't.
They can't process.
They're working too hard tocatch the words, so they're not
(35:09):
gonna be bothered trying tofigure out the meaning, how they
feel about it, how they wannarespond.
So everybody desperately needsto upgrade their microphones.
Nobody should be using theembedded microphone in your
computers.
If you're a senior leader in asuccessful company, drop 150
bucks on a decent microphone.
I'm happy to send yourecommendations, but you need to
(35:31):
sound.
As clear as your thoughts are inyour head.
So, the, all of these thingscontribute to whether or not
people feel your presence, feelyour passion, and feel that
connection with you.
Mike (35:44):
It's so important.
what I'm taking from that is thesame way we talked earlier about
certain habits impacting yourability to influence like the up
speak or monotone or things likethat.
When we are.
Virtual.
There are a whole bunch ofthings about our microphone or
(36:04):
our lighting or whether peopleare, like you said, I'm on, in,
on Zoom calls with people whereI see them from like the eyes up
or the, and it's like, are you,how do you not know this is
happening?
But all those things.
And, you know, it, what you'rehelping me understand is it
makes that communication evenmore.
Complex, if that's the rightword, is that all of the same
(36:26):
things apply to the up speak andthe vocal fry and the monotone,
but now it could be our lightingor our microphone or our webcam
that could be having the samenegative impact on our ability
to get our ideas across.
Dr. Laura Sicola (36:40):
A hundred percent and people get really
self-conscious.
It's like, oh, I put on weight,or I'm getting too gray, or I
don't like the wrinkles in myface.
Or, you know, all these kinds ofthings that, that I hear from
clients as far as where they're,self-conscious on being on
camera.
So sometimes, yeah, they dodeliberately put themselves away
at the bottom of the screen.
'cause they don't wanna.
See themselves, and it's likeyou are leading a hundred
(37:03):
million dollar company.
If you were standing in front ofthe board, would you say, I
don't want you to see me.
I'm gonna hide behind the podiumbecause I put on 10 pounds last
year or whatever.
Of course not.
You're not gonna judge yourselfworth based on how you look,
you're.
Dress appropriately.
You're gonna groom yourself.
You're going to show upappropriate for the context.
(37:25):
But it's not like if anybodysaid to you, Hey, you know what?
You shouldn't, I don't thinkyou're worthy of your role
because you look X, oh my gosh,lawsuits, you'd be up in arms,
all sorts of stuff going on.
So why are you gonna do that toyourself?
Own the screen.
The same way you would own theroom.
You're running the company.
(37:47):
Get over whatever the mentalblocks are.
Step up, show up, turn on thecamera, speak into the mic.
Own the screen.
Lead that way first.
Mike (38:00):
And I love the excuse, and I hear this all the time, and
maybe it's not always a.
Bullshit excuse.
But I think most of the time itis.
It's like, oh, I'm having a badinternet connection today.
There's something wrong with mywifi.
That's why I am not on, oncamera.
And my thought is, okay, ifthat's bs, you know, cut the
crap and let's get on camera anddo it the right way.
(38:21):
second thing is, if that's true.
Part of being a leader and beingable to communicate and
influence, then go fix your damninternet connection and stop
using that same excuse, Laurafor the leader listening today.
You know, one.
One action we've already talkedabout, which I'm gonna recommend
(38:42):
people do right away, is recordyourself.
And it's way easier today thanthat ever was.
You know, you could do thatright on your phone, put it on
the desk and record.
Or you could do that while, youknow, while you're on a Zoom
call, use Otter or use applaud.
Whatever you need to use, go doit.
So, so that, that's one action.
(39:03):
But what's one thing as we startto, to wrap up, what's one
thing.
A leader should do in their nextmeeting to kind of instantly
increase their credibility,their influence, by using their
voice.
What's one more tip that wouldhelp with that in somebody's
next meeting?
Dr. Laura Sicola (39:24):
Paint a picture with the voice and with
the words.
Share a story, share an analogy,share a case study, but bring me
in to the, being able toenvision the result, you know,
the cause or the effect of whatit is that we're trying to
(39:46):
achieve here.
Remind me why we're doing this.
Give me an example of a clientyou worked with.
Where were they?
Where are they?
Or who are you trying to help?
Now, if you're bringing a newcancer drug to the market or
something, what's the, orcybersecurity, some new,
software development, et cetera.
Who are the latest actors?
(40:06):
Who's the child that you met?
Who has this, or a picture of achild that you've got?
Help me connect, help me as alistener to feel.
In my heart, in my stomach, on avisceral level, what we're
trying to achieve and why.
Who are we helping?
Now, maybe you're not curingcancer or you know, solving the
world from the cyber attackthat's going to be the next
(40:29):
Armageddon.
But you do what you do for areason.
Remind people what that is.
What's an excitement?
What's a the we need to inspire,not just inform.
And I'll geek out on you for 10seconds here, Mike.
The word inspire.
The etymology of that word.
We talk a lot about being aninspiring leader.
Well, to inspire literally comesfrom inspirare in Latin, which
(40:53):
translates to, to breathe lifeinto or to breathe spirit into
something.
So when you are talking to yourpeople, whoever they are you
just letting words fall out ofyour mouth?
Hoping they pick up them up andput them together in a logical
order and do something usefulwith them.
Or do you breathe life into yourmessage?
(41:13):
Do you breathe life into yourteam?
Do you get them on board in thatcollective life energy?
To ride forward with thatmotivation, to get that, to turn
that vision into the reality,that's what tends to be missing
more often than not.
Mike (41:28):
Yeah, and a real example I can think of there, and it's not
so much inspiring the team, itwas more of an example of
managing up.
But I was in a meeting with theleadership team and the number
two on the team was said.
well, we could do these things,but everybody's so overwhelmed
(41:48):
right now.
I think we're doing too much.
And that's the way it wascommunicated.
Now, that's not a vivid picture.
Those are words and the CEO.
Took that and painted her ownpicture of what that meant.
And in her mind, that meant youare trying to protect your
(42:09):
people.
you know, I'm working hard.
Why shouldn't everybody else beworking hard?
Is this really everybody or isit just one or two people?
Like it actually didn't help thenumber two person get their
point across it hurt.
but instead, if they would'vesaid, Hey, I spoke to.
(42:30):
You know, Susan yesterday aboutwhat she was doing.
Paint the picture of what'sgoing on.
Paint the picture of anotherexample versus just saying
people are overwhelmed.
I think we're doing too much.
So, so I think it's not just.
Influencing down and painting apicture of an inspiring vision.
It could, it's influence.
It's communicating anywhere,whether it's to a peer, whether
(42:53):
it's up, whether it's down, butjust using vivid examples and
stories to inspire or breathelife into.
I think it's is such animportant point.
Dr. Laura Sicola (43:05):
Yes.
Being specific, giving thosecase studies, those examples,
what does.
People mean what does too muchmean?
Too much of what maybe you'redoing a lot of stuff that is
utterly inefficient or notpriority at all.
When you look at that Eisenhowermatrix about what's urgent
versus what's important, are youspending an awful lot of time
(43:25):
just putting out little menialfires?
Are you doing stuff that couldbe delegated?
Are you doing a lot of busy workthat, or working on a project
where when we compare it to whatwe're talking about now, that
needs to be put on the backburner?
Yes.
Okay.
You're working a lot, but.
Let's reprioritize, let'sreevaluate.
So there are other discussionsthat need to be had clearly, but
just too much is not itselfevidence of, the reason to make
(43:51):
a particular decision.
Mike (43:54):
And this is an area when it comes to communicating to
influence others.
You may be wonderful at ittoday, but you can get better.
You may be crappy at it todayand you need to get better, but
I, but there's never a pointwhere it's like, Hey.
I'm communicating.
Great.
I don't need to think about thisanymore.
A, you could always get better.
(44:15):
B, you could fall into badhabits if you're not careful.
So that being said, what aresome of the ways that you work
with clients?
I guess first, who are yourtypical clients and what are the
different ways that you workwith them?
Dr. Laura Sicola (44:29):
thank you.
The typical clients are,Mid-market to higher to the
larger enterprise organizations.
You mentioned Accenture andAmazon in the beginning.
Comcast, but also some smallerones as well.
it is typically the seniorleadership team or a level or so
down to SVP, VP, depending onthe size of the company.
(44:50):
Those labels can mean a lot ofdifferent things, but the idea
is when.
An individual or a team is greatas the brains behind the
operation, but not so great asthe face and the voice in front
of it, of the initiative.
How do you get people totranslate their vision, skill,
(45:11):
expertise, ideas, et cetera, tobe able to get other
stakeholders of all sorts onboard?
And a lot of it is aboutexecutive presence.
Whether they're the bull in theChina shop or they're a little
too much of a wallflower orsomething in between.
succession planning is also areally big issue because you've
(45:33):
got those who've risen throughthe ranks because of their
technical skill and they've nowhit, or they're about to hit
what I call the linguistic glassceiling.
So they have that skill, but tomove up to the next level, it's
not about your skill anymore.
There's that lateral shift, andnow it's about how you lead
people, how you communicate.
If you came up through the ranksthrough tech, you came up
(45:54):
through the ranks, throughfinance.
You like your numbers, you likeyour spreadsheets, you like your
camera off, you don't like totalk a whole lot, et cetera.
Why would people think you're anatural fit for a top leadership
position?
You may have said for 20 years,well, I want my work to speak
for itself.
Well, congrats.
It does.
It just doesn't speak for you.
What your work now has toldeverybody is that you belong
(46:16):
staying exactly where you areexecuting those tasks, not
leading other people.
So it's time to quickly closethat gap so that you're those
soft skills, which ironicallyare hard now rise to the same
level as that tacticalexpertise.
And I help people close that gapto get ready for that senior
most promotion.
Mike (46:37):
Is it typical working one-on-one with folks, working
with a group?
Is it both?
Dr. Laura Sicola (46:42):
It's both.
the, usually if I'm working withsomebody in the C-suite, or a
level, maybe SVPs, it's gonna beone-on-one.
And.
You know, a year give or takeworth of coaching.
Sometimes it extends past that,obviously.
I do a lot of team trainingswith groups on breaking the
expert's curse on speaking toinfluence on aligning that
verbal, vocal and visual thingslike we were talking about
(47:03):
before, board presentations.
sometimes it's more, what's theright word?
More short term focused.
So I've worked with a lot ofhealthcare systems, for example,
where they have to respond toRFPs.
So they have to put together amassive team presentation.
They'll spend six months puttingtogether this presentation to
bid on a particular contract.
(47:24):
so that's more focused asopposed to working with a team
on.
Big picture skill developmentmoving forward, and so it does
definitely range, but it's allabout helping people step up
their executive presence and beseen as that trusted, confident,
credible leader that others wantto follow.
Mike (47:46):
If people wanna find out more about you and what you do,
what's the best place for themto go?
Dr. Laura Sicola (47:51):
my website, very easy.
LauraSicola.com.
Not terribly creative orcryptic.
So, LauraSicola.com.
Check it out there.
And of course, if you'd like tofollow on LinkedIn, or any of my
other social media platforms,would love to connect.
Mike (48:04):
Well, I always say if you want a great company, you need a
great leadership team.
Laura, thanks for helping us getthere today.
Dr. Laura Sicola (48:10):
Thank you so much for the invitation, Mike.
Loved every minute of it.
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