August 19, 2025 • 42 mins
Michelle Scott is an intuitive leadership coach with over 14 years of experience. She holds a doctorate in Spiritual Science and advanced training in trauma-informed somatic work. Michelle empowers high-impact leaders to break free from ego-driven patterns and outdated paradigms by helping them reconnect with their intuition and lead from within. Her work focuses on fostering clarity, confidence, and authenticity, allowing leaders to unlock their fullest potential and make a deeper impact.
Discovery calls are available at: MichelleScottCoaching.com
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Episode Transcript
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Michelle Scott (00:05):
It's like they're fighting with reality.
The reality is that is the wayit is.
And really what the secret is isthat their anger isn't actually
coming from the thing that'sthey think is wrong out there.
It's coming from that.
They think it should bedifferent than it actually is,
and that pressure of thinkingthat should be different than it
is, and they have zero controlover it.
(00:26):
They can't even influence thatat all.
That pressure is what theproblem actually is inside.
It's where the, usually theanger or the whatever's going on
is, was driving that reaction.
So we can get to that judgment,help them slow down, back off,
open up, see the judgment and belike, okay, fine.
Sometimes comes out that way,fine, okay, I'll see it.
(00:46):
And then we do that selfforgiveness and boom, they're
free.
Mike Goldman (00:57):
Michelle Scott is an intuitive leadership coach.
She empowers high impact leadersto break free from outdated
paradigms and ego-drivenpatterns, unlocking their
fullest potential throughintuitive alignment and holistic
transformation.
That's a lot of big words Withover 14 years of experience, a
doctorate in spiritual scienceand advanced.
(01:20):
Training in trauma-informedsomatic work.
She guides leaders to transcendexternal pressures and lead from
within, creating exponentialimpact with clarity, confidence
and authenticity.
And we're gonna talk, on theshow about leading yourself and
leading others.
Michelle, welcome to the show.
Michelle Scott (01:41):
Oh, thank you so much.
I'm very happy to be here.
I can't wait to have ourconversation and see where it
goes, so
Mike Goldman (01:46):
Yeah.
And I can't wait to learn whatsome of those big words I just
used, meant.
Michelle Scott (01:50):
me too.
Mike Goldman (01:50):
Yeah.
But we'll figure it outtogether.
we'll get on, Google or chat GPTand look it up.
so.
So Michelle, you know how Ialways start, is that better
leadership team show question,which is from all of your
experience with leaders andcompanies, what do you believe
is the one most importantcharacteristic of a great
leadership team?
Michelle Scott (02:12):
yeah, I appreciate that question and my
word is willingness.
And what that means to me isthat team members and leaders of
those teams, are willing to takea look at themselves, take a
look at how they're showing up,take a look at all the facets of
leadership, but from myperspective and my lens, to
really look towards howindividuals also are showing up
(02:35):
on that team.
and then how they're impactingthe team dynamics, et cetera.
So that's the direction that'sthe answer that makes sense to
me right now.
So, yeah.
Mike Goldman (02:44):
excellent.
It's amazing how many differentanswers I get to that same
question, so it's great.
And you may be the first onethat said willingness, so that's
great.
now I, in your introduction, Icalled you an intuitive
leadership coach.
Now that may mean a leadershipteam, a leadership coach that
happens to be intuitive, butthat's kind of a title intuitive
leadership coach.
what does that mean?
Michelle Scott (03:05):
Yeah.
it's almost hard to put intowords, really.
I guess.
I do more than just talk aboutleadership strategy metrics.
I have that background and Ihave a lovely left brain that
loves to figure all that out andhelp people.
But I also have this amazing,ability, I guess to tune in to
other people in a way that Ican, Really get to the bottom
(03:27):
line of what's holding themback.
And that includes teams.
you know, I really can seethings that maybe other people
can't see because of thosegifts.
And I love doing that work.
I love being able to see, maybesee a little angle or something
that was hidden and I don't knowif that makes sense, but that's
my experience of it.
Mike Goldman (03:43):
is that a natural talent you think you have to
have that kind of intuitive wayof looking at things?
Or is that something, I knowyou've got a lot of schooling,
doctorate and spiritual science.
Science, and I know, you know,conscious leadership is a big
part of what you do.
is that learned or is that anatural talent you think you
have?
Michelle Scott (04:02):
Well, well, great question.
I love it.
I love it.
I love it.
it's.
Both, I would say I've taken thetime, obviously I have a
doctorate in it, but I've takenthe time to develop it, but
everybody has access to it,everybody has intuition and it's
really just about learning topay attention to it.
And, I just happen to be aperson who's been in the world
(04:22):
who's really wants to reallyknow a bit more about that.
And so that's why I dove in atthe level I did to get that
doctorate.
but it does help me in servingothers and.
Helping them connect with theirintuition, and that's actually
one of the things that I love todo is help people and leaders,
particularly because.
Often they're leading and theyare intuiting, but they're not
always listening and hearingwhat that guidance is.
(04:45):
Sometimes they'll questionthemselves and not trust it, but
I love helping people connectwith that.
And then they are, they're moreclear, they're more
self-confident.
I mean, there's so much, so manygifts that come from tuning into
our natural knowing and ournatural intuition.
So yeah, it's great.
It's good stuff.
Mike Goldman (05:01):
Excellent.
So, and I know you say, and Isay this all the time, so when I
saw something you said, Igrabbed onto it.
You said you gotta lead yourselfbefore you can lead others.
and I want to talk, you know,in, in our time about leading
others.
But let's start with that.
When you say you gotta leadyourself, before you lead
others, unpack that for us alittle bit.
Michelle Scott (05:20):
Yeah.
for me, I can't lead.
Okay.
You could argue, or somebodycould argue, probably argue with
this, but I don't believe I canlead someone else if I'm not
handling my own issues and myown, what's going on inside of
me first, because otherwise it'slike, I don't know if this is,
if I could say this really, butthe blind leading the blind or,
you can cut that out I guess, ifyou want to, but it's
Mike Goldman (05:42):
did we That's okay.
I'm not, did we just insultblind
Michelle Scott (05:45):
I hope not.
I don't know.
I dunno.
I don't know, but I'm
Mike Goldman (05:50):
I'm canceling you.
Now you're in big trouble.
Michelle Scott (05:53):
I'm in trouble.
No,
Mike Goldman (05:54):
we could say that.
We could say that.
Michelle Scott (05:56):
Okay, thank you.
So, yeah, so it's like the blindleading the blind.
you are not, to me, if I'm nottuned into myself first.
I can't necessarily see or helpsomeone else.
Maybe I'm seeing something insomeone else's leadership.
I can't, or someone on my teamor direct report.
I really can't necessarily helpthem most effectively and deep
the, in the deepest way possibleand most impactful way possible.
(06:19):
if I'm not aware of that withinmyself and working that in
myself, because otherwise it'sjust me trying to get somebody
else to do something thatthey're probably seeing me.
Doing the exact same thing.
And maybe they're going, well,why are you telling me that
you're doing the same thing?
So anyway, it's just always goodto start from within and then
from there, more magic canhappen, I guess, on the
leadership team.
Mike Goldman (06:40):
Yeah, I think a great example of that, and it's
why I'm such a believer in, in,in this idea as well is from my
own life.
You know, my, I have a, I did aTED talk a number of years ago,
called the Antidote to Anger,and it's about, me and my son
from when, my son's 30 now, butit's a story from when he was
12, and he's got Asperger'sSyndrome, which for those of you
(07:00):
that don't know it, it's on theautism spectrum.
And, you know, I, there was, youknow, I was so, frustrated.
By that situation, and I wasn'ta very good dad at all back
then.
I didn't know how to handle it.
and when I was frustrated, it,it changed the way I saw him.
(07:23):
It changed the way I saw otherpeople.
I looked at him like he wasn'ta, a kid that was struggling.
he was up to no good.
He was pushing my buttons onpurpose.
and I see that in, in leaderswhen they are.
Struggling and frustrated orstressed or approaching burnout
or overwhelmed or whatever itis, when they're that way.
(07:43):
It's very difficult to see theirteams and other members of the
leadership team clearly whenthey're not even dealing with
their own stuff clearly.
Michelle Scott (07:54):
Yeah.
Mike Goldman (07:55):
kind of near and dear to my heart.
Michelle Scott (07:57):
Yeah.
And I guess, how I'm relating tothat is, one way I teach about
leadership, is on this conceptof the ladder of leadership
consciousness and the higher upon it's like scale of, let's say
zero to 10 or zero to seven, butit's not the higher up on that
ladder that I am, then I'm morein my creative mind.
My prefrontal cortex is online.
(08:17):
Like I'm clearer thinking.
I'm more creative.
I'm.
flow.
There's more flow.
and so the more people on myteam actually that I can have up
that ladder in their state ofbeing up, the better that team
is going to perform and thebetter I'm going to perform.
If somebody's down the ladderblaming or judging or just name
the making right, wrong, andthey're not taking
(08:39):
responsibility for where theyare on that ladder.
If they're down the ladder andblame, shame, whatever, that,
that is just not a productiveplace to be and it's going to
drag the whole team downactually.
And so that's one of the bigthings I coach on is helping
people get up that ladder,recognize they're down the
ladder.
That's.
Step one, really awareness, butthen helping what are the tools
that they can use to get up thatladder?
(09:02):
And those are usually unique tothe person.
The things that work for youmight not work for me, but I
help them figure out what thoseare and help them get back up.
But yeah, that's it's personalresponsibility.
That's what I see in that,
Mike Goldman (09:13):
yeah, and what did you call that?
What's it called?
The ladder of.
Leadership
Michelle Scott (09:16):
oh, the leadership ladder of
consciousness.
Mike Goldman (09:18):
Leadership ladder of consciousness.
Michelle Scott (09:21):
Yeah, and it's based on, some work by, David
Hawkins, his Map ofConsciousness, and also, a
master coach, Steve Chandler,who talks about the ladder of
consciousness.
And I just added a leadership,piece to it.
But yeah, it's really powerfulwork and powerful information.
Mike Goldman (09:37):
so what is something that someone could do,
to.
In addition to hiring you tofigure it out, is there for
someone listening now, whatcould they do to understand
where they are on that ladderand start moving up?
Michelle Scott (09:53):
Yeah, I love that.
That's great.
You know, I think I said thisearlier, but really self aware.
The awareness piece, that's stepone.
You know, if I can't see it inmyself, I can't really do
anything about it.
So the more I can start to payattention to what I'm thinking,
what I'm, how I'm feeling, orwhat's even going on in my body,
(10:14):
what my body's signaling to me,let's say if I'm feeling
burnout, that also would be alower scale.
Thing so that it's, differentways to look at it.
but starting to recognize whereI'm at on the ladder.
So if I'm having more negativethoughts that's down the ladder.
If I'm having, Less.
I mean, emotions are kind ofinteresting because there can be
(10:34):
enthusiasm at the top, but therecan be over enthusiasm, you
know, which might not be superhelpful.
Right.
So, but it's just, I think wecan, we know, you know, you most
people know what emotions are upor down the ladder.
let's see if there's anythingelse about that.
Well, no, I don't for thelatter.
That's probably good for now,but yeah.
Mike Goldman (10:53):
I, what gets in the way, and I imagine it's the
same things that get in the wayof moving up the ladder when you
think about.
Great leadership and startingwith self-leadership, but then
more formal leadership.
I know you talk about leaders,you know, clearing away internal
obstacles, ego-driven patterns,outdated paradigms.
(11:13):
Unpack that for us becausethere, you know, there, there
those are things.
And when you talk about thingslike, you know, emotions getting
in the way or, you know,negative attitudes about things
very often as a leader.
We don't believe that's gettingin our way.
We believe that's how thingsare.
It's not a negative emotion.
(11:34):
it's not a negative emotion.
Things are crappy right now.
How do you think I'm supposed tofeel like we, we don't look at
it as an obstacle in a way.
We look at it as that's whatlife is.
so, so talk about thoseobstacles that, that get in the
way and how do we become moreaware of those obstacles and
start to clear them?
Michelle Scott (11:53):
You know, I think about it in terms of, I'm
not a doctor, so bear with me.
Nobody who's a professionalmedical person do not use this
against me in any way.
But, but I think of in termssometimes I share about this, in
terms of like a blocked arteryor an artery where the blood is
flowing really smoothly through.
And, and I personally want to bein flow as much as possible.
(12:14):
And what I know is if I getstuck in an angry position, so
first, let's say, actually backup for just a second, emotions
are not bad, actually.
Even negative thinking.
None of this is bad.
it's all part of the humanexperience.
It's just that if I want to havethe best life, the smoothest
life, the most flow, the bestexperience, the most fun.
(12:35):
This is my part, myinterpretation of my part.
I love to have more fun.
I don't wanna be stuck in angeror, you know, I wanna move
forward.
Then I want to be up the ladder.
I want to not have theseobstacles, these more negative,
parts of the, of my experiencearound any longer than I need
to.
But I'm not also not denyingthem.
I'm not repressing them.
(12:55):
I'm experiencing them, but alsoI'm wanting to reduce the
downtime and get moving forward.
So as quickly, that's just myhow I wanna live my life.
So it is a choice.
but what I will say is when I'mdown the ladder, let's say I'm
in anger.
Let's say I'm in a team meetingand I just go off on somebody.
That there's collateral damagethat happens in that.
(13:15):
There's the impact on the otherperson because that probably
didn't lift them up the ladder.
That probably sent them down theladder.
There's the impact on teamoverall and what the team's
trying to accomplish.
Okay.
Now we have two people furtherdown the ladder versus if we
have everybody up the ladder,the flow will be incredible.
You are knocking people down theladder is not going to help.
Plus there's probably repair.
(13:36):
Energy expenditure.
I mean, the impact is not reallyper, perhaps perfectly
measurable, but what I know isthat I'm going to get way more
done.
I'm not gonna have as manyplaques and obstacles in my
artery.
It's gonna be clear and cleanand moving forward.
I, that's, I hope that makessense, but that's my, I guess,
(13:56):
where I'm headed with it rightnow
Mike Goldman (13:57):
let's make this real with an example.
Am so, so let's say I am, in ameeting I am particularly
frustrated with.
A member of the team, and it'shard for me to see that clearly.
I am, you know, I'm letting thatanger and that frustration
impact me.
(14:18):
Again, I don't look at that'snot my problem.
It's this other person that'spissing me off.
but I'm a leader in a meetingand I'm.
And I'm frustrated.
It's impacting my ability tohear the other person or the
other people in the room.
it's impacting how I'mresponding.
So, so it's having this negativeimpact, but what could someone
do to deal with that when theybelieve they feel this way
(14:41):
because of this other person.
Michelle Scott (14:43):
Right.
Mike Goldman (14:44):
still certainly blocking them.
Like, how should we think aboutthat?
How do we break out of that as aleader?
Michelle Scott (14:49):
Oh gosh.
That to me the, what you'rebringing up is I call it like an
eighth degree black belt ninjamove to be self, that
self-aware.
And that's also my invitation tofolks who are listening to this,
is to be, start to become thatself-aware because, but why?
It's an why it's, I call it aneighth degree black belt to
move.
It's because our egos areusually so bought into that.
(15:11):
they don't, they're trying toprotect our themselves, like the
ego.
My egos trying to protectmyself.
So it's hard sometimes for someego, some people to see that
really it's.
Up to me to make the change.
It's up to me to look at why I'mso angry.
It's up to me to takeresponsibility for my inner
reaction to what's happening,and then I can come in a clear
way.
But it's about me taking that,seeing that.
(15:34):
kind of more negative part ofmyself.
That's the ninja move.
Actually being willing to seethis more challenging part of
myself that, oh, I have thisangry part that impacts other
people more negatively.
That's not an easy thing alwaysfor some people to get.
And so the answer, I guess toyour question is if somebody
were to hear this, maybe that'sthe beginning of the
(15:57):
conversation for that person isjust, again, it's back to
awareness.
and then, once they become,someone's like, okay, I'm
willing to look at this.
Then it's about maybe seekinghelp in some way.
If it depends on how far, howmuch anger there is.
I mean, there could be a, somework that needs to be done to
help really get to the rootcause of that.
(16:18):
But, yeah.
Mike Goldman (16:19):
how do you deal with it if you've got, you know,
if I'm your client and you'recoaching me and I am just
incredibly frustrated by.
This other by this member of myteam.
and all I can talk about is, youknow, what a jerk they are and
how they're throwing a wrench inthe works and like, how is there
something you do as a coach toget me to, to somehow.
(16:43):
Shift.
'cause that's certainly when youtalk about, you know, internal
obstacles and ego-drivenpatterns and outdated paradigms,
and I mean, that, that'sprobably right.
Smack bullseye in all.
or at least a couple of those.
how, if you're coaching me, howwould you get me through that?
Michelle Scott (17:01):
Yeah, some.
It depends on the, level of whatI wanna say.
this is not a word boughtinnessof
Mike Goldman (17:08):
you go.
It's a new word.
Michelle Scott (17:09):
it's a brand new word right now.
Everybody, added to thedictionary, boughtinness of that
person and their story.
So usually that's a story thatthey're telling.
Like it's all about that person.
It's all about that personexternally.
but so how I coach around thatis helping that person over time
depends on how long they need tostay in their story.
So that's kind of step one.
That's why I talk about how muchbought-in-ness there is into the
(17:30):
story of it, and how much theywanna hold onto that, that, that
other person's wrong or whathave you.
so there's a process of helpingthem see that, that maybe
there's another way to look atit.
Maybe they do have some kind ofresponsibility for their inner
reaction.
So I often teach about, what wecan control, what we can't
control, and.
what I, the only thing I canreally control is my inner
(17:53):
reaction to what's happeningexternally.
Often I have no influence orcontrol over what's happening
externally, but I might have areaction to it, and the reaction
isn't bad.
It's just that do I wanna stayin it, right?
Yes or no?
If I wanna stay in it, fine, gostay in it.
But if I actually want to nothave that reaction anymore,
(18:14):
there has to be a point where Idecide, okay, I don't wanna do
that anymore.
And I wanna, I do wanna dosomething different.
I wanna have a differentexperience.
And so I help people see whetheror not they wanna stay in that
or not.
what is, what's the payoff forstaying
Mike Goldman (18:28):
is this serving you?
Michelle Scott (18:29):
Is this serving you?
Is it serving others?
How is this working?
How is it helping you?
You know, what is it reallysupporting you?
And if it is, if they think itis, then okay, cool.
Go on.
And maybe they need to vent somemore.
So it's a layered processreally.
So it's like once they decidethough, that they're like, okay,
I can start to see what you'resaying.
I'm, I can see my reaction isreally actually, well.
(18:52):
Oh, I love this.
this is from my school I wentto.
I also have a master's inSpiritual Psychology from the
University of Santa Monica.
And, they always said it like,this is, if something disturbs
my peace, it's a clue for methat there's something inside
being triggered.
And usually it's a judgmentabout something else or someone
else that's, I'm saying they'rewrong or bad.
So often, once someone's readyto let go of the story.
(19:13):
They're open to seeing what elseis possible.
Then I might have them identifywhere they're judging that
situation, and then we'll helpthem release the judgments.
Because really those judgmentsare a big piece of the, I'll
call the problem as far as whythat anger continues to linger.
It's'cause they're holding ajudgment that shouldn't be the
way it is.
It's like they're fighting withreality.
The reality is that is the wayit is.
(19:35):
And really what the secret isthrough secret sauce.
The secret is that their angerisn't actually coming from the
thing that's they think is wrongout there.
It's coming from that.
They think it should bedifferent than it actually is,
and that pressure of thinkingthat should be different than it
is, and they have zero controlover it.
They can't even influence thatat all.
(19:56):
That pressure is what theproblem actually is inside.
It's where the, usually theanger or the whatever's going on
is, was driving that reaction.
So we can get to that judgment,help them slow down, back off,
open up, see the judgment and belike, okay, fine.
Sometimes comes out that way,fine, okay, I'll see it.
And then we do that selfforgiveness and boom, they're
(20:18):
free.
And then it's, you know, I alsotalk about, I talk about
conscious leadership, butembodied leadership, once I let
go of that judgment, I'membodying, I'm embodying it.
At that point, I'm no longerhaving to do, actually sometimes
not.
I'm, I don't even have to adjustmy mental state.
Once I let go of that judgment,I embody it.
I no longer have the issue.
(20:38):
In many cases, sometimes I haveto do layers to actually let it
go, but it can be totally let goof, and that's exciting from my
Mike Goldman (20:44):
what it reminds me of, I'm actually reading a book
and it's not a new book, but,the Art of Possibility.
By Benjamin Zander, who's aconductor, and it's a wonderful
book, and he has this conceptand what you just said reminded
me of it.
He calls it being the board.
what he means by being the boardis if you think of like a chess
board, you know, or a gameboard, let's say it's chess,
(21:06):
it's like you could believe thatin life you are, you know,
you're the pawn or the bishop orthe, you are one of the pieces
and there's only certain thingsyou can do.
You could also believe, youknow, you are on one side of the
board, you know, you're your,you're black or you're white on
the board, but he says you arethe board.
Michelle Scott (21:25):
You're the board.
Mike Goldman (21:26):
and everything that happens in your life is.
is.
you and your responsibility.
It doesn't mean he's not sayingit's your to blame if something
bad happens to you.
If you're at a stoplight and adrunk driver hits you from
behind, you are not to blame forthat.
But if you believe you are theboard, like, okay, how did this
(21:46):
situation happen and what partdid I play?
Like I know if I drive, there'sa chance something like this
might happen and what I am incontrol of is how I react to it.
So I love that idea of being theboard and it's.
You know, it's almost, it'staking responsibility for
everything in your life, whichis very different than saying
you're to blame for everythingin your life.
(22:08):
But I love that concept.
Michelle Scott (22:10):
I appreciate your, you making sure you, are
distinguishing or making thatdistinction between I'm
responsible and I'm to be blamedfor it because, that also is a
big part of when I'm introducingthis idea of forgiveness and
that I'm judging it.
It.
So sometimes people, oftenactually people will go to back
to blame or making themselveswrong in some way, and that is
(22:31):
not what we're saying becausethen we're judging ourself on
top of the other judgment andwe're just adding more judgment.
And that's not the goal.
The goal is to let go of.
The against this or the shouldsor the judgment that's causing
the problem inside of me.
My reactions.
So, so yeah, it's fun stuff.
Oh, and I'd like to add just onemore piece to this that I often
teach on and it's, it's aconcept called the Mirror.
(22:52):
and this is another eighthdegree black belt move.
It's like being able to see whatI'm seeing out there is
actually, if I spot it, I gotit.
so if I'm pointing out there andblaming or, Shaming or looking
at somebody else's behavior andmaking them wrong.
often if I could be, do theeighth degree black belt or more
move and turn it back and justdo an inquiry without blame
(23:15):
towards myself, but just as acuriosity, like, oh, where is
that playing out in me?
That's a tool actually.
Where is that playing out in me?
And that's a way I can be like,oh, okay, if I'm open to look at
that.
That is a healing, a very deephealing, tool.
If I'm willing to look insideand be like, where am I behaving
that way to either others ormyself, by the way, I could be
(23:38):
doing it to myself.
yeah, it's a, it's another levelof self-awareness, really.
Deep one.
Mike Goldman (23:43):
So I'm gonna, I'm gonna dig into that and I forgot
what it was.
I've done some NLP training,neurolinguistic programming
training in my life, and it'sthe same concept and I'm.
it's killing me that I can'tremember what the phrase is.
They use an NLP for it.
And it's not just an NLP phrase,but it's basically mirroring.
It's basically like, you know,problem you see out there is
really a reflection of you.
(24:03):
And so I, and I always struggledwith that.
Like, I felt like I got it, thensomething would happen.
I'm like, no, I don't understandthat anymore.
so I'll give you an example formy life.
you're gonna coach me right now,is one of the real pet peeves I
have.
Whether it's family members orfriends or clients is people
(24:24):
that take 10 minutes to saysomething that should take 45
seconds.
You know, I have, my wife'suncle, so, so my wife's uncle
will, let's say the real storyis it didn't work, so I called
customer service and returnedit.
Yeah, that's the story.
The way he will tell it is, so Icalled customer service and it
(24:49):
rang and, hello, how are you?
And I'm like, oh my God, shootme before this story's over.
So now I think that would bothereverybody, but I think I have a
particular pet peeve for Okay,get on with it and get to the
point.
so how is that, does that meansomewhere?
I talk too much and I'm, andwe're like, what does that mean
(25:09):
when you talk about mirroring orthat being a reflection of me?
Does it mean I have thatproblem?
or are we saying something else?
Michelle Scott (25:16):
let's look at a little, is it okay if we do look
at that for a moment
Mike Goldman (25:20):
Yeah.
Let you want, do, I need to liedown on the couch
Michelle Scott (25:22):
don't know.
I don't know.
Nah, you should be okay.
I think so.
well, why is that wrong that hespends that extra time telling
that story?
What are you making that meanabout him
Mike Goldman (25:34):
for me, for me, it's like, I've got things to
do.
You're wasting my time.
Just get to it.
you know, I, I don't need tohear the long, drawn out story.
I.
Michelle Scott (25:43):
Right.
Okay.
Got it.
alright, so what are you makingit mean if, so if somebody
wastes your time, what are youmaking that mean about that
person or yourself?
Mike Goldman (25:57):
I think if someone's wasting my time doing
that, you know, part of it is Idon't see that.
I think they're being rude.
I think they're not, I saythey're, you know, the way I
think of it is they're notself-aware enough to know that
they are monopolizing theconversation and wasting time,
like, get to the point.
So I, I look at it as you know,they're not self-aware and
(26:20):
they're being rude.
Michelle Scott (26:21):
Okay.
Love it.
So, so.
How do you know that they'rebeing rude and that they're not
self-aware?
What's the, how are you gaugingthat?
Mike Goldman (26:31):
I, I really don't know that's a, it's a judgment.
I'm making ba based on howthey're making me feel, I guess.
Michelle Scott (26:37):
that's right.
And that's where we're headed.
Right?
So that's step one is, it'swhere is it coming from?
It's coming from your thoughtsor a judgment or something about
that because, somebody else's,Like I prob I might have a
different scale of patience onit than you did, but which one
of us is not right, but whichone of us is accurate in our
thinking?
I don't know.
Mike Goldman (26:58):
Oh, I, it's me.
I'm the one.
I'm the one that's
Michelle Scott (27:00):
Yeah, of course.
Mike Goldman (27:01):
It's gotta be me.
Michelle Scott (27:02):
Yeah.
But if as soon as you can startto see, like, if I can help
someone start to see thatthere's another possibility,
then that can kind of open, Idon't know what's happening
inside of you right now, butthat could start to open someone
up to like, oh, okay, maybe I'mfull of BS or something, you
know, on my side of things.
I'm just curious what did happenfor you.
Mike Goldman (27:21):
Yeah, it's, It's interesting and I like the way
the, you know, the rightquestions turn it around into,
you know, it is not that it's amirror that I have that same
problem that person has, but itis about me.
It's like, what meaning am Iputting behind it?
And I love that.
and it's funny how.
it's tough to coach yourself,right?
It's sometimes almost, it's hardto, had a client say to me, it's
(27:43):
hard to see the picture whenyou're, it's hard to see the big
picture when you're in thepicture.
And, you know, I haveconversations with clients all
the time where they injectcertain meaning into a situation
or into the, what a person saysor the way they act.
and I'll ask them the simplequestion, okay, what else could
it mean?
Michelle Scott (28:03):
That's right.
Mike Goldman (28:04):
And they come up with other alter, and part of it
is, the other alternatives maybe helpful, but just the fact
that there are otheralternatives, it's helpful.
And that's kind of, That's, kindof what we're doing here.
it's the same thing.
Michelle Scott (28:15):
And so, so this is one piece, and then I'm
taking you through a littleprocess of what I kind of talked
about with what I would do witha client who has that story,
right?
So I would probably have you doa self forgiveness if you were
open to it.
Like, I forgive myself forjudging people who seem to be
wasting my time as rude.
Because
Mike Goldman (28:34):
that.
Do you need, yeah, Do you needme to say that out loud to,
Michelle Scott (28:36):
you have to be the one to say it if you want
to.
Mike Goldman (28:38):
yeah.
I forgive myself for judgingother people as being rude when
I really don't know what's goingon there.
Michelle Scott (28:45):
That's it.
That's the truth is I don'treally know what, why they need
to tell that story.
Who knows what's behind that?
Maybe they've never been reallylistened to before and they need
someone to really hear whatthey're saying.
I mean, who knows
Mike Goldman (28:56):
There you go.
Now see now after this, I haveto call Uncle Richie and have a
long
Michelle Scott (29:00):
That's right and then healing can occur.
Now I wanna call uncle Richie.
I mean that is kind of what canhappen.
Actually.
Things can free up and it's thesame with a leadership team like
you wanna put, throw this into aleadership team.
If I'm a leader and I have ajudgment about someone on my
team.
As a complete jerk and, I canhold onto the story Absolutely.
If I wanna Hold on.
(29:21):
Go for it.
Hang onto it.
It's just that if you are aperson's ready to have a
different experience, I would,you know, that person's a jerk.
I forgive myself for judgingthat person as a jerk because
the truth is I don't know what'sgoing on with their home life.
The truth is, I have no idea whythey're behaving that way.
Who knows what happened to themearlier today.
I mean, that's the general ideahere.
(29:42):
and then now I wanna come back.
Just do we have a little moretime to finish up the mirror
piece?
Okay, cool.
So
Mike Goldman (29:48):
hold on.
Because by the way, this is notabout my audience.
I do this show to for people tofix me, and as long as it fixes
me, I'm good.
Michelle Scott (29:56):
yeah.
And, yeah, so, so there's thatfirst step, right?
The step out of the story.
kind of let go of the story,create a little freedom inside,
do that self-forgiveness to kindof clean that up.
And then we could look, maybestart to see the mirror.
'cause that mirror is hard tosee for some people.
I said the forgiveness, I thinkwas the eighth degree black belt
(30:16):
move.
But really it's looking in themirror.
Okay.
Now, so, so now Mike, looking inthe mirror, where might you be?
It might be different than whatyou described, like somebody
sharing oversharing or whatever,but where are you?
Maybe you potentially, you don'thave to fully own it, but maybe
being rude either to yourself orsomeone else in your life.
Mike Goldman (30:40):
Yeah.
I think for me it's almost theopposite of in like, not, I
don't think I could probably belong-winded from time to time,
but I don't think that's a bigissue for me, but I'm impatient.
And it's one of the reasons whythat is such a pet peeve for me
is I am, you know, high d on thedisc scale and always damn proud
(31:01):
of it.
Like, we're gonna get down tobusiness, let's do it.
but that is, I could beimpatient.
I find myself, really having tostop myself from interrupting
other people, which isincredibly rude.
Michelle Scott (31:13):
It's so rude.
Mike Goldman (31:14):
do it All the time.
Hey, you just interrupted me,
Michelle Scott (31:18):
Yes.
Okay, so that's how you look inthe mirror.
It's not going to be exactlyperfectly, it could be exactly
the same thing.
It could be where I'm actuallyoversharing and telling the da
annoying people, but often it'ssomething a little different,
but it's still rude.
It's still something that'sstill, could be called the rude.
You know, someone else iscalling you rude because you do
that behind your back orwhatever, you know?
(31:40):
But that's how we use the mirrorto, to look at ourselves.
And so what just happened as youlooked at it that way, inside of
you?
Is that helpful?
Mike Goldman (31:49):
Yeah, it's helpful because it's basically, you
know, Not that I'm doing thesame thing as these other people
or the uncle I'm talking about,but I have the same problem of
being rude just in a differentway.
And it makes me moreunderstanding.
It's like, yeah, it's coming outme in a different way, but I'm
no better than they
Michelle Scott (32:09):
Right.
Thank you.
That's it.
That's the bottom line.
I'm no better.
I'm doing it.
Mike Goldman (32:14):
Yeah, the, you know, and what this reminds me
of too, and it's funny, likethese are things I coach on, but
it's so hard to see it myself,is my whole.
Ted talk that I mentionedearlier about my son is all
about something.
You know, that I call in the TEDTalk, the Law of Positive Intent
law of positive intent sayseveryone's just trying to do the
(32:34):
best they can with the resourcesthey have and so are, and by the
way, the reason I did the TEDTalk and the reason why I coach
on this and I talk about it is'cause I know I struggle with
that.
I very quickly look at otherpeople and judge and say, oh,
they, you know, they're justtrying to throw a wrench in.
They're being a pain in the neckon purpose.
(32:55):
But when I think about it, inall my many years, I've never
known anyone who woke up in themorning and said, what could I
screw up today?
Like, no one's truly up to nogood.
But we put that on people and Iput that on people.
So thinking, everybody's justtrying to do the best they can
with the resources they havemakes you think, well, what do I
(33:17):
know that they don't know?
Or what do they know that Idon't know?
What resources do they have thatI may not have?
And it, you know, all this kindof comes together in, into one,
one big, pretty important ideaabout how we think about
ourselves and others.
Michelle Scott (33:30):
Yeah.
Oh, I, and I did think of whatI, what I popped outta my head
there, is that this is, and thisis a normal thing that egos do,
is this the mirror thing?
It's also about projectingoutward.
It's, it might be that your egodoesn't want to own that I'm,
that you're rude because that'snot a nice thing.
(33:51):
I don't wanna see myself as notnice and kind and.
All the things.
And so then what egos naturally,just normally this is normal,
people do this, but that's why Ilike people to become self-aware
because then we can catch on towhat's happening in our egos and
create different experiences andbetter hopefully better outcomes
for in different ways.
But, I'm, if I'm seeing that outthere, that's why I spotted I
(34:14):
got it.
I can look back in, becauseoften our egos are trying to
project it out so it doesn't, Idon't have to feel bad that I'm
rude.
And it's a usually a protectivemechanism actually.
So it's a, we can be kind andgentle with ourselves even if we
are doing that projection oreven if we are rude.
but, if we can start torecognize that, that is the key,
and that's why I teachself-awareness as a base tool,
(34:37):
even in leadership, for leaders,for teams like self-awareness.
To me is the root cause, and ithelps everything move along
better if we're all takingresponsibility and seeing the
mirror.
Holy cow.
Can you imagine if everybody ona team was looking in that
mirror and acknowledging that,like you said, like everybody is
doing the best they can.
That's what I'm talking about.
(34:58):
That's what I hear you talkingabout as well, so.
Mike Goldman (35:00):
Love it.
and I've heard you may, maybe itwas when we, the first time we
talked and met each other, andby the way, we, Michelle and I
met at a speaking event.
We were together at, and youmentioned this concept of, label
jail.
Michelle Scott (35:15):
Yes.
Mike Goldman (35:16):
And I don't know if that relates at all to what
we're talking about or if it's adifferent idea, but dig into
what Label Jail is.
Michelle Scott (35:22):
Yeah, label jail is so much fun and we started to
get creative with it, like getoutta jail free cards and things
like that too.
That was fun.
yeah.
Label Jail is when we putourselves, it could even be,
we're putting ourselves perhapstoo, but it's putting ourselves
or others in a box and notletting them get out of the box.
And what that does is stopsgrowth.
And where I have seen it show upin the, with the teams and the
(35:44):
folks I work with in leadershipis, if I have somebody who,
let's say they make a mistakeand it might be a big mistake,
small mistake or whatever, itdepends on who they're making
the mistake with.
Because that person might be aperson who really judges hard if
you make a small mistake,depending on what's going on in
their consciousness, right?
But, so you could get put injail for different levels of
(36:06):
offenses.
But let's say I made a mistake,and somebody put me in label
jail, I could get fired for thatbecause if they had never let me
out of the box so I can grow andbecome a better person and
correct it or make amends orhowever that would be, they're
not gonna even give me a chanceto, clean it up.
And I might be amazing at what Ido, but because they've ho are
(36:29):
holding me in label jail.
They're going to miss out on theopportunity to really experience
my gifts because they're holdingonto this judgment based on a
past experience that who knowswhat really happened?
Did somebody actually inquireinto what was happening?
Maybe my mother just died and I,you know, this thing happened.
(36:50):
Maybe I have, neurodivergentways of thinking and it's harder
for me to do certain things.
Or, I mean, it could be anynumber of things.
So.
Mike Goldman (36:59):
love that.
And what it reminds me of is I,and I used to do this all the
time, one of the things I dowith my clients is I help them
assess the performance of theirteams, of their direct reports.
And I used to label people Aplayer, B player, C player, and
Toxic C player.
And I stopped doing that, thatthose particular labels, because
people were talking about likeif you labeled somebody a B
(37:21):
player, they would talk about.
That person as if that's whothey were, you know, as if 35
years ago the doctor came outand said, Mr.
Goldman, I'm so sorry, your wifehas given birth to an eight
pound, two ounce B player.
It's like, no, that they may beperforming at a certain level
Right.
now and they need some work, butthose labels of a player, B
(37:42):
player, C player, that's puttingpeople in label jail and it
becomes really.
Harmful.
I love that.
I love that.
so Michelle, as we start to, towrap up, talk a little bit about
some of the different things youdo with clients.
How do you help clients?
Is it all one-on-one?
Is it in groups?
Is it with teams?
how do you work with clients?
Michelle Scott (38:03):
Yeah.
I appreciate you asking.
I actually, I love one-on-one,one-on-one coaching.
That, that is the largest partof my coaching practice.
I will help out and do teams ifI have a client that, needs some
help because with their team,because the team dynamics are
impacting my client, you know,so I wanna clean up all the
pieces of the puzzle.
So I'll come in and help.
(38:24):
smooth that team out, I guess isa way to say, like, help
everybody get into a bettersituation from individuals to
the leader themselves.
but yeah, mostly I do one-on-oneand I really, I just love what I
do.
So if I can be of service, ifI'm gonna do that,
Mike Goldman (38:39):
I love it.
So, if people are interested intalking to you about that, where
should they go to find out more?
Michelle Scott (38:44):
Yeah.
I was originally going to givemy website, but actually I think
I would just prefer to, whichI'll need to get to, is my
scheduling link and just putthat right in the show notes, so
that saves a step if they wouldlike to have a conversation.
That's what I like to do withpeople, and there's no pressure
obligations at all.
It's just a conversation to getto know you and.
hear about what you have goingon in your life, what's working,
(39:06):
what isn't working, and maybe wecan even break through a little
bit on that short call, and justsee if there's a way I could
support you.
So that's really the next step.
And we can maybe put somethingin the show notes.
I'm, I
Mike Goldman (39:17):
Yeah, we'll do that, give us the name of the
website anyway, but then we'llput that in the show notes.
Michelle Scott (39:20):
Okay.
So my website iswww.michellescottcoaching.com
and there is a book, a freediscovery call on that website
too, just trying to make it easyfor folks so.
Yeah.
Mike Goldman (39:30):
Beautiful.
thank you for starting to fix myrudeness.
I'm sure I still have some workto do.
We'll have to do this five orsix more times,
Michelle Scott (39:37):
Yeah.
Mike Goldman (39:37):
I'll get over it and I'll be able to talk to
Uncle Richie again withoutgetting all angry at him.
Michelle Scott (39:42):
See, and you have embodied it, so that's
great.
Mike Goldman (39:44):
there you go.
So, so, so it's not all aboutme, but it's partially about me.
If you want a great company, Ialways say you need a great
leadership team.
Michelle, thanks for helping usget there today.
Michelle Scott (39:55):
You're so welcome.
I had a great time with youtoday.
I appreciate you.
Mike Goldman (39:58):
Me too.
Thanks.
Michelle Scott (39:59):
Yep.
It's like they're fighting with reality.
The reality is that is the wayit is.
And really what the secret is isthat their anger isn't actually
coming from the thing that'sthey think is wrong out there.
It's coming from that.
They think it should bedifferent than it actually is,
and that pressure of thinkingthat should be different than it
is, and they have zero controlover it.
(00:26):
They can't even influence thatat all.
That pressure is what theproblem actually is inside.
It's where the, usually theanger or the whatever's going on
is, was driving that reaction.
So we can get to that judgment,help them slow down, back off,
open up, see the judgment and belike, okay, fine.
Sometimes comes out that way,fine, okay, I'll see it.
(00:46):
And then we do that selfforgiveness and boom, they're
free.
Mike Goldman (00:57):
Michelle Scott is an intuitive leadership coach.
She empowers high impact leadersto break free from outdated
paradigms and ego-drivenpatterns, unlocking their
fullest potential throughintuitive alignment and holistic
transformation.
That's a lot of big words Withover 14 years of experience, a
doctorate in spiritual scienceand advanced.
(01:20):
Training in trauma-informedsomatic work.
She guides leaders to transcendexternal pressures and lead from
within, creating exponentialimpact with clarity, confidence
and authenticity.
And we're gonna talk, on theshow about leading yourself and
leading others.
Michelle, welcome to the show.
Michelle Scott (01:41):
Oh, thank you so much.
I'm very happy to be here.
I can't wait to have ourconversation and see where it
goes, so
Mike Goldman (01:46):
Yeah.
And I can't wait to learn whatsome of those big words I just
used, meant.
Michelle Scott (01:50):
me too.
Mike Goldman (01:50):
Yeah.
But we'll figure it outtogether.
we'll get on, Google or chat GPTand look it up.
so.
So Michelle, you know how Ialways start, is that better
leadership team show question,which is from all of your
experience with leaders andcompanies, what do you believe
is the one most importantcharacteristic of a great
leadership team?
Michelle Scott (02:12):
yeah, I appreciate that question and my
word is willingness.
And what that means to me isthat team members and leaders of
those teams, are willing to takea look at themselves, take a
look at how they're showing up,take a look at all the facets of
leadership, but from myperspective and my lens, to
really look towards howindividuals also are showing up
(02:35):
on that team.
and then how they're impactingthe team dynamics, et cetera.
So that's the direction that'sthe answer that makes sense to
me right now.
So, yeah.
Mike Goldman (02:44):
excellent.
It's amazing how many differentanswers I get to that same
question, so it's great.
And you may be the first onethat said willingness, so that's
great.
now I, in your introduction, Icalled you an intuitive
leadership coach.
Now that may mean a leadershipteam, a leadership coach that
happens to be intuitive, butthat's kind of a title intuitive
leadership coach.
what does that mean?
Michelle Scott (03:05):
Yeah.
it's almost hard to put intowords, really.
I guess.
I do more than just talk aboutleadership strategy metrics.
I have that background and Ihave a lovely left brain that
loves to figure all that out andhelp people.
But I also have this amazing,ability, I guess to tune in to
other people in a way that Ican, Really get to the bottom
(03:27):
line of what's holding themback.
And that includes teams.
you know, I really can seethings that maybe other people
can't see because of thosegifts.
And I love doing that work.
I love being able to see, maybesee a little angle or something
that was hidden and I don't knowif that makes sense, but that's
my experience of it.
Mike Goldman (03:43):
is that a natural talent you think you have to
have that kind of intuitive wayof looking at things?
Or is that something, I knowyou've got a lot of schooling,
doctorate and spiritual science.
Science, and I know, you know,conscious leadership is a big
part of what you do.
is that learned or is that anatural talent you think you
have?
Michelle Scott (04:02):
Well, well, great question.
I love it.
I love it.
I love it.
it's.
Both, I would say I've taken thetime, obviously I have a
doctorate in it, but I've takenthe time to develop it, but
everybody has access to it,everybody has intuition and it's
really just about learning topay attention to it.
And, I just happen to be aperson who's been in the world
(04:22):
who's really wants to reallyknow a bit more about that.
And so that's why I dove in atthe level I did to get that
doctorate.
but it does help me in servingothers and.
Helping them connect with theirintuition, and that's actually
one of the things that I love todo is help people and leaders,
particularly because.
Often they're leading and theyare intuiting, but they're not
always listening and hearingwhat that guidance is.
(04:45):
Sometimes they'll questionthemselves and not trust it, but
I love helping people connectwith that.
And then they are, they're moreclear, they're more
self-confident.
I mean, there's so much, so manygifts that come from tuning into
our natural knowing and ournatural intuition.
So yeah, it's great.
It's good stuff.
Mike Goldman (05:01):
Excellent.
So, and I know you say, and Isay this all the time, so when I
saw something you said, Igrabbed onto it.
You said you gotta lead yourselfbefore you can lead others.
and I want to talk, you know,in, in our time about leading
others.
But let's start with that.
When you say you gotta leadyourself, before you lead
others, unpack that for us alittle bit.
Michelle Scott (05:20):
Yeah.
for me, I can't lead.
Okay.
You could argue, or somebodycould argue, probably argue with
this, but I don't believe I canlead someone else if I'm not
handling my own issues and myown, what's going on inside of
me first, because otherwise it'slike, I don't know if this is,
if I could say this really, butthe blind leading the blind or,
you can cut that out I guess, ifyou want to, but it's
Mike Goldman (05:42):
did we That's okay.
I'm not, did we just insultblind
Michelle Scott (05:45):
I hope not.
I don't know.
I dunno.
I don't know, but I'm
Mike Goldman (05:50):
I'm canceling you.
Now you're in big trouble.
Michelle Scott (05:53):
I'm in trouble.
No,
Mike Goldman (05:54):
we could say that.
We could say that.
Michelle Scott (05:56):
Okay, thank you.
So, yeah, so it's like the blindleading the blind.
you are not, to me, if I'm nottuned into myself first.
I can't necessarily see or helpsomeone else.
Maybe I'm seeing something insomeone else's leadership.
I can't, or someone on my teamor direct report.
I really can't necessarily helpthem most effectively and deep
the, in the deepest way possibleand most impactful way possible.
(06:19):
if I'm not aware of that withinmyself and working that in
myself, because otherwise it'sjust me trying to get somebody
else to do something thatthey're probably seeing me.
Doing the exact same thing.
And maybe they're going, well,why are you telling me that
you're doing the same thing?
So anyway, it's just always goodto start from within and then
from there, more magic canhappen, I guess, on the
leadership team.
Mike Goldman (06:40):
Yeah, I think a great example of that, and it's
why I'm such a believer in, in,in this idea as well is from my
own life.
You know, my, I have a, I did aTED talk a number of years ago,
called the Antidote to Anger,and it's about, me and my son
from when, my son's 30 now, butit's a story from when he was
12, and he's got Asperger'sSyndrome, which for those of you
(07:00):
that don't know it, it's on theautism spectrum.
And, you know, I, there was, youknow, I was so, frustrated.
By that situation, and I wasn'ta very good dad at all back
then.
I didn't know how to handle it.
and when I was frustrated, it,it changed the way I saw him.
(07:23):
It changed the way I saw otherpeople.
I looked at him like he wasn'ta, a kid that was struggling.
he was up to no good.
He was pushing my buttons onpurpose.
and I see that in, in leaderswhen they are.
Struggling and frustrated orstressed or approaching burnout
or overwhelmed or whatever itis, when they're that way.
(07:43):
It's very difficult to see theirteams and other members of the
leadership team clearly whenthey're not even dealing with
their own stuff clearly.
Michelle Scott (07:54):
Yeah.
Mike Goldman (07:55):
kind of near and dear to my heart.
Michelle Scott (07:57):
Yeah.
And I guess, how I'm relating tothat is, one way I teach about
leadership, is on this conceptof the ladder of leadership
consciousness and the higher upon it's like scale of, let's say
zero to 10 or zero to seven, butit's not the higher up on that
ladder that I am, then I'm morein my creative mind.
My prefrontal cortex is online.
(08:17):
Like I'm clearer thinking.
I'm more creative.
I'm.
flow.
There's more flow.
and so the more people on myteam actually that I can have up
that ladder in their state ofbeing up, the better that team
is going to perform and thebetter I'm going to perform.
If somebody's down the ladderblaming or judging or just name
the making right, wrong, andthey're not taking
(08:39):
responsibility for where theyare on that ladder.
If they're down the ladder andblame, shame, whatever, that,
that is just not a productiveplace to be and it's going to
drag the whole team downactually.
And so that's one of the bigthings I coach on is helping
people get up that ladder,recognize they're down the
ladder.
That's.
Step one, really awareness, butthen helping what are the tools
that they can use to get up thatladder?
(09:02):
And those are usually unique tothe person.
The things that work for youmight not work for me, but I
help them figure out what thoseare and help them get back up.
But yeah, that's it's personalresponsibility.
That's what I see in that,
Mike Goldman (09:13):
yeah, and what did you call that?
What's it called?
The ladder of.
Leadership
Michelle Scott (09:16):
oh, the leadership ladder of
consciousness.
Mike Goldman (09:18):
Leadership ladder of consciousness.
Michelle Scott (09:21):
Yeah, and it's based on, some work by, David
Hawkins, his Map ofConsciousness, and also, a
master coach, Steve Chandler,who talks about the ladder of
consciousness.
And I just added a leadership,piece to it.
But yeah, it's really powerfulwork and powerful information.
Mike Goldman (09:37):
so what is something that someone could do,
to.
In addition to hiring you tofigure it out, is there for
someone listening now, whatcould they do to understand
where they are on that ladderand start moving up?
Michelle Scott (09:53):
Yeah, I love that.
That's great.
You know, I think I said thisearlier, but really self aware.
The awareness piece, that's stepone.
You know, if I can't see it inmyself, I can't really do
anything about it.
So the more I can start to payattention to what I'm thinking,
what I'm, how I'm feeling, orwhat's even going on in my body,
(10:14):
what my body's signaling to me,let's say if I'm feeling
burnout, that also would be alower scale.
Thing so that it's, differentways to look at it.
but starting to recognize whereI'm at on the ladder.
So if I'm having more negativethoughts that's down the ladder.
If I'm having, Less.
I mean, emotions are kind ofinteresting because there can be
(10:34):
enthusiasm at the top, but therecan be over enthusiasm, you
know, which might not be superhelpful.
Right.
So, but it's just, I think wecan, we know, you know, you most
people know what emotions are upor down the ladder.
let's see if there's anythingelse about that.
Well, no, I don't for thelatter.
That's probably good for now,but yeah.
Mike Goldman (10:53):
I, what gets in the way, and I imagine it's the
same things that get in the wayof moving up the ladder when you
think about.
Great leadership and startingwith self-leadership, but then
more formal leadership.
I know you talk about leaders,you know, clearing away internal
obstacles, ego-driven patterns,outdated paradigms.
(11:13):
Unpack that for us becausethere, you know, there, there
those are things.
And when you talk about thingslike, you know, emotions getting
in the way or, you know,negative attitudes about things
very often as a leader.
We don't believe that's gettingin our way.
We believe that's how thingsare.
It's not a negative emotion.
(11:34):
it's not a negative emotion.
Things are crappy right now.
How do you think I'm supposed tofeel like we, we don't look at
it as an obstacle in a way.
We look at it as that's whatlife is.
so, so talk about thoseobstacles that, that get in the
way and how do we become moreaware of those obstacles and
start to clear them?
Michelle Scott (11:53):
You know, I think about it in terms of, I'm
not a doctor, so bear with me.
Nobody who's a professionalmedical person do not use this
against me in any way.
But, but I think of in termssometimes I share about this, in
terms of like a blocked arteryor an artery where the blood is
flowing really smoothly through.
And, and I personally want to bein flow as much as possible.
(12:14):
And what I know is if I getstuck in an angry position, so
first, let's say, actually backup for just a second, emotions
are not bad, actually.
Even negative thinking.
None of this is bad.
it's all part of the humanexperience.
It's just that if I want to havethe best life, the smoothest
life, the most flow, the bestexperience, the most fun.
(12:35):
This is my part, myinterpretation of my part.
I love to have more fun.
I don't wanna be stuck in angeror, you know, I wanna move
forward.
Then I want to be up the ladder.
I want to not have theseobstacles, these more negative,
parts of the, of my experiencearound any longer than I need
to.
But I'm not also not denyingthem.
I'm not repressing them.
(12:55):
I'm experiencing them, but alsoI'm wanting to reduce the
downtime and get moving forward.
So as quickly, that's just myhow I wanna live my life.
So it is a choice.
but what I will say is when I'mdown the ladder, let's say I'm
in anger.
Let's say I'm in a team meetingand I just go off on somebody.
That there's collateral damagethat happens in that.
(13:15):
There's the impact on the otherperson because that probably
didn't lift them up the ladder.
That probably sent them down theladder.
There's the impact on teamoverall and what the team's
trying to accomplish.
Okay.
Now we have two people furtherdown the ladder versus if we
have everybody up the ladder,the flow will be incredible.
You are knocking people down theladder is not going to help.
Plus there's probably repair.
(13:36):
Energy expenditure.
I mean, the impact is not reallyper, perhaps perfectly
measurable, but what I know isthat I'm going to get way more
done.
I'm not gonna have as manyplaques and obstacles in my
artery.
It's gonna be clear and cleanand moving forward.
I, that's, I hope that makessense, but that's my, I guess,
(13:56):
where I'm headed with it rightnow
Mike Goldman (13:57):
let's make this real with an example.
Am so, so let's say I am, in ameeting I am particularly
frustrated with.
A member of the team, and it'shard for me to see that clearly.
I am, you know, I'm letting thatanger and that frustration
impact me.
(14:18):
Again, I don't look at that'snot my problem.
It's this other person that'spissing me off.
but I'm a leader in a meetingand I'm.
And I'm frustrated.
It's impacting my ability tohear the other person or the
other people in the room.
it's impacting how I'mresponding.
So, so it's having this negativeimpact, but what could someone
do to deal with that when theybelieve they feel this way
(14:41):
because of this other person.
Michelle Scott (14:43):
Right.
Mike Goldman (14:44):
still certainly blocking them.
Like, how should we think aboutthat?
How do we break out of that as aleader?
Michelle Scott (14:49):
Oh gosh.
That to me the, what you'rebringing up is I call it like an
eighth degree black belt ninjamove to be self, that
self-aware.
And that's also my invitation tofolks who are listening to this,
is to be, start to become thatself-aware because, but why?
It's an why it's, I call it aneighth degree black belt to
move.
It's because our egos areusually so bought into that.
(15:11):
they don't, they're trying toprotect our themselves, like the
ego.
My egos trying to protectmyself.
So it's hard sometimes for someego, some people to see that
really it's.
Up to me to make the change.
It's up to me to look at why I'mso angry.
It's up to me to takeresponsibility for my inner
reaction to what's happening,and then I can come in a clear
way.
But it's about me taking that,seeing that.
(15:34):
kind of more negative part ofmyself.
That's the ninja move.
Actually being willing to seethis more challenging part of
myself that, oh, I have thisangry part that impacts other
people more negatively.
That's not an easy thing alwaysfor some people to get.
And so the answer, I guess toyour question is if somebody
were to hear this, maybe that'sthe beginning of the
(15:57):
conversation for that person isjust, again, it's back to
awareness.
and then, once they become,someone's like, okay, I'm
willing to look at this.
Then it's about maybe seekinghelp in some way.
If it depends on how far, howmuch anger there is.
I mean, there could be a, somework that needs to be done to
help really get to the rootcause of that.
(16:18):
But, yeah.
Mike Goldman (16:19):
how do you deal with it if you've got, you know,
if I'm your client and you'recoaching me and I am just
incredibly frustrated by.
This other by this member of myteam.
and all I can talk about is, youknow, what a jerk they are and
how they're throwing a wrench inthe works and like, how is there
something you do as a coach toget me to, to somehow.
(16:43):
Shift.
'cause that's certainly when youtalk about, you know, internal
obstacles and ego-drivenpatterns and outdated paradigms,
and I mean, that, that'sprobably right.
Smack bullseye in all.
or at least a couple of those.
how, if you're coaching me, howwould you get me through that?
Michelle Scott (17:01):
Yeah, some.
It depends on the, level of whatI wanna say.
this is not a word boughtinnessof
Mike Goldman (17:08):
you go.
It's a new word.
Michelle Scott (17:09):
it's a brand new word right now.
Everybody, added to thedictionary, boughtinness of that
person and their story.
So usually that's a story thatthey're telling.
Like it's all about that person.
It's all about that personexternally.
but so how I coach around thatis helping that person over time
depends on how long they need tostay in their story.
So that's kind of step one.
That's why I talk about how muchbought-in-ness there is into the
(17:30):
story of it, and how much theywanna hold onto that, that, that
other person's wrong or whathave you.
so there's a process of helpingthem see that, that maybe
there's another way to look atit.
Maybe they do have some kind ofresponsibility for their inner
reaction.
So I often teach about, what wecan control, what we can't
control, and.
what I, the only thing I canreally control is my inner
(17:53):
reaction to what's happeningexternally.
Often I have no influence orcontrol over what's happening
externally, but I might have areaction to it, and the reaction
isn't bad.
It's just that do I wanna stayin it, right?
Yes or no?
If I wanna stay in it, fine, gostay in it.
But if I actually want to nothave that reaction anymore,
(18:14):
there has to be a point where Idecide, okay, I don't wanna do
that anymore.
And I wanna, I do wanna dosomething different.
I wanna have a differentexperience.
And so I help people see whetheror not they wanna stay in that
or not.
what is, what's the payoff forstaying
Mike Goldman (18:28):
is this serving you?
Michelle Scott (18:29):
Is this serving you?
Is it serving others?
How is this working?
How is it helping you?
You know, what is it reallysupporting you?
And if it is, if they think itis, then okay, cool.
Go on.
And maybe they need to vent somemore.
So it's a layered processreally.
So it's like once they decidethough, that they're like, okay,
I can start to see what you'resaying.
I'm, I can see my reaction isreally actually, well.
(18:52):
Oh, I love this.
this is from my school I wentto.
I also have a master's inSpiritual Psychology from the
University of Santa Monica.
And, they always said it like,this is, if something disturbs
my peace, it's a clue for methat there's something inside
being triggered.
And usually it's a judgmentabout something else or someone
else that's, I'm saying they'rewrong or bad.
So often, once someone's readyto let go of the story.
(19:13):
They're open to seeing what elseis possible.
Then I might have them identifywhere they're judging that
situation, and then we'll helpthem release the judgments.
Because really those judgmentsare a big piece of the, I'll
call the problem as far as whythat anger continues to linger.
It's'cause they're holding ajudgment that shouldn't be the
way it is.
It's like they're fighting withreality.
The reality is that is the wayit is.
(19:35):
And really what the secret isthrough secret sauce.
The secret is that their angerisn't actually coming from the
thing that's they think is wrongout there.
It's coming from that.
They think it should bedifferent than it actually is,
and that pressure of thinkingthat should be different than it
is, and they have zero controlover it.
They can't even influence thatat all.
(19:56):
That pressure is what theproblem actually is inside.
It's where the, usually theanger or the whatever's going on
is, was driving that reaction.
So we can get to that judgment,help them slow down, back off,
open up, see the judgment and belike, okay, fine.
Sometimes comes out that way,fine, okay, I'll see it.
And then we do that selfforgiveness and boom, they're
(20:18):
free.
And then it's, you know, I alsotalk about, I talk about
conscious leadership, butembodied leadership, once I let
go of that judgment, I'membodying, I'm embodying it.
At that point, I'm no longerhaving to do, actually sometimes
not.
I'm, I don't even have to adjustmy mental state.
Once I let go of that judgment,I embody it.
I no longer have the issue.
(20:38):
In many cases, sometimes I haveto do layers to actually let it
go, but it can be totally let goof, and that's exciting from my
Mike Goldman (20:44):
what it reminds me of, I'm actually reading a book
and it's not a new book, but,the Art of Possibility.
By Benjamin Zander, who's aconductor, and it's a wonderful
book, and he has this conceptand what you just said reminded
me of it.
He calls it being the board.
what he means by being the boardis if you think of like a chess
board, you know, or a gameboard, let's say it's chess,
(21:06):
it's like you could believe thatin life you are, you know,
you're the pawn or the bishop orthe, you are one of the pieces
and there's only certain thingsyou can do.
You could also believe, youknow, you are on one side of the
board, you know, you're your,you're black or you're white on
the board, but he says you arethe board.
Michelle Scott (21:25):
You're the board.
Mike Goldman (21:26):
and everything that happens in your life is.
is.
you and your responsibility.
It doesn't mean he's not sayingit's your to blame if something
bad happens to you.
If you're at a stoplight and adrunk driver hits you from
behind, you are not to blame forthat.
But if you believe you are theboard, like, okay, how did this
(21:46):
situation happen and what partdid I play?
Like I know if I drive, there'sa chance something like this
might happen and what I am incontrol of is how I react to it.
So I love that idea of being theboard and it's.
You know, it's almost, it'staking responsibility for
everything in your life, whichis very different than saying
you're to blame for everythingin your life.
(22:08):
But I love that concept.
Michelle Scott (22:10):
I appreciate your, you making sure you, are
distinguishing or making thatdistinction between I'm
responsible and I'm to be blamedfor it because, that also is a
big part of when I'm introducingthis idea of forgiveness and
that I'm judging it.
It.
So sometimes people, oftenactually people will go to back
to blame or making themselveswrong in some way, and that is
(22:31):
not what we're saying becausethen we're judging ourself on
top of the other judgment andwe're just adding more judgment.
And that's not the goal.
The goal is to let go of.
The against this or the shouldsor the judgment that's causing
the problem inside of me.
My reactions.
So, so yeah, it's fun stuff.
Oh, and I'd like to add just onemore piece to this that I often
teach on and it's, it's aconcept called the Mirror.
(22:52):
and this is another eighthdegree black belt move.
It's like being able to see whatI'm seeing out there is
actually, if I spot it, I gotit.
so if I'm pointing out there andblaming or, Shaming or looking
at somebody else's behavior andmaking them wrong.
often if I could be, do theeighth degree black belt or more
move and turn it back and justdo an inquiry without blame
(23:15):
towards myself, but just as acuriosity, like, oh, where is
that playing out in me?
That's a tool actually.
Where is that playing out in me?
And that's a way I can be like,oh, okay, if I'm open to look at
that.
That is a healing, a very deephealing, tool.
If I'm willing to look insideand be like, where am I behaving
that way to either others ormyself, by the way, I could be
(23:38):
doing it to myself.
yeah, it's a, it's another levelof self-awareness, really.
Deep one.
Mike Goldman (23:43):
So I'm gonna, I'm gonna dig into that and I forgot
what it was.
I've done some NLP training,neurolinguistic programming
training in my life, and it'sthe same concept and I'm.
it's killing me that I can'tremember what the phrase is.
They use an NLP for it.
And it's not just an NLP phrase,but it's basically mirroring.
It's basically like, you know,problem you see out there is
really a reflection of you.
(24:03):
And so I, and I always struggledwith that.
Like, I felt like I got it, thensomething would happen.
I'm like, no, I don't understandthat anymore.
so I'll give you an example formy life.
you're gonna coach me right now,is one of the real pet peeves I
have.
Whether it's family members orfriends or clients is people
(24:24):
that take 10 minutes to saysomething that should take 45
seconds.
You know, I have, my wife'suncle, so, so my wife's uncle
will, let's say the real storyis it didn't work, so I called
customer service and returnedit.
Yeah, that's the story.
The way he will tell it is, so Icalled customer service and it
(24:49):
rang and, hello, how are you?
And I'm like, oh my God, shootme before this story's over.
So now I think that would bothereverybody, but I think I have a
particular pet peeve for Okay,get on with it and get to the
point.
so how is that, does that meansomewhere?
I talk too much and I'm, andwe're like, what does that mean
(25:09):
when you talk about mirroring orthat being a reflection of me?
Does it mean I have thatproblem?
or are we saying something else?
Michelle Scott (25:16):
let's look at a little, is it okay if we do look
at that for a moment
Mike Goldman (25:20):
Yeah.
Let you want, do, I need to liedown on the couch
Michelle Scott (25:22):
don't know.
I don't know.
Nah, you should be okay.
I think so.
well, why is that wrong that hespends that extra time telling
that story?
What are you making that meanabout him
Mike Goldman (25:34):
for me, for me, it's like, I've got things to
do.
You're wasting my time.
Just get to it.
you know, I, I don't need tohear the long, drawn out story.
I.
Michelle Scott (25:43):
Right.
Okay.
Got it.
alright, so what are you makingit mean if, so if somebody
wastes your time, what are youmaking that mean about that
person or yourself?
Mike Goldman (25:57):
I think if someone's wasting my time doing
that, you know, part of it is Idon't see that.
I think they're being rude.
I think they're not, I saythey're, you know, the way I
think of it is they're notself-aware enough to know that
they are monopolizing theconversation and wasting time,
like, get to the point.
So I, I look at it as you know,they're not self-aware and
(26:20):
they're being rude.
Michelle Scott (26:21):
Okay.
Love it.
So, so.
How do you know that they'rebeing rude and that they're not
self-aware?
What's the, how are you gaugingthat?
Mike Goldman (26:31):
I, I really don't know that's a, it's a judgment.
I'm making ba based on howthey're making me feel, I guess.
Michelle Scott (26:37):
that's right.
And that's where we're headed.
Right?
So that's step one is, it'swhere is it coming from?
It's coming from your thoughtsor a judgment or something about
that because, somebody else's,Like I prob I might have a
different scale of patience onit than you did, but which one
of us is not right, but whichone of us is accurate in our
thinking?
I don't know.
Mike Goldman (26:58):
Oh, I, it's me.
I'm the one.
I'm the one that's
Michelle Scott (27:00):
Yeah, of course.
Mike Goldman (27:01):
It's gotta be me.
Michelle Scott (27:02):
Yeah.
But if as soon as you can startto see, like, if I can help
someone start to see thatthere's another possibility,
then that can kind of open, Idon't know what's happening
inside of you right now, butthat could start to open someone
up to like, oh, okay, maybe I'mfull of BS or something, you
know, on my side of things.
I'm just curious what did happenfor you.
Mike Goldman (27:21):
Yeah, it's, It's interesting and I like the way
the, you know, the rightquestions turn it around into,
you know, it is not that it's amirror that I have that same
problem that person has, but itis about me.
It's like, what meaning am Iputting behind it?
And I love that.
and it's funny how.
it's tough to coach yourself,right?
It's sometimes almost, it's hardto, had a client say to me, it's
(27:43):
hard to see the picture whenyou're, it's hard to see the big
picture when you're in thepicture.
And, you know, I haveconversations with clients all
the time where they injectcertain meaning into a situation
or into the, what a person saysor the way they act.
and I'll ask them the simplequestion, okay, what else could
it mean?
Michelle Scott (28:03):
That's right.
Mike Goldman (28:04):
And they come up with other alter, and part of it
is, the other alternatives maybe helpful, but just the fact
that there are otheralternatives, it's helpful.
And that's kind of, That's, kindof what we're doing here.
it's the same thing.
Michelle Scott (28:15):
And so, so this is one piece, and then I'm
taking you through a littleprocess of what I kind of talked
about with what I would do witha client who has that story,
right?
So I would probably have you doa self forgiveness if you were
open to it.
Like, I forgive myself forjudging people who seem to be
wasting my time as rude.
Because
Mike Goldman (28:34):
that.
Do you need, yeah, Do you needme to say that out loud to,
Michelle Scott (28:36):
you have to be the one to say it if you want
to.
Mike Goldman (28:38):
yeah.
I forgive myself for judgingother people as being rude when
I really don't know what's goingon there.
Michelle Scott (28:45):
That's it.
That's the truth is I don'treally know what, why they need
to tell that story.
Who knows what's behind that?
Maybe they've never been reallylistened to before and they need
someone to really hear whatthey're saying.
I mean, who knows
Mike Goldman (28:56):
There you go.
Now see now after this, I haveto call Uncle Richie and have a
long
Michelle Scott (29:00):
That's right and then healing can occur.
Now I wanna call uncle Richie.
I mean that is kind of what canhappen.
Actually.
Things can free up and it's thesame with a leadership team like
you wanna put, throw this into aleadership team.
If I'm a leader and I have ajudgment about someone on my
team.
As a complete jerk and, I canhold onto the story Absolutely.
If I wanna Hold on.
(29:21):
Go for it.
Hang onto it.
It's just that if you are aperson's ready to have a
different experience, I would,you know, that person's a jerk.
I forgive myself for judgingthat person as a jerk because
the truth is I don't know what'sgoing on with their home life.
The truth is, I have no idea whythey're behaving that way.
Who knows what happened to themearlier today.
I mean, that's the general ideahere.
(29:42):
and then now I wanna come back.
Just do we have a little moretime to finish up the mirror
piece?
Okay, cool.
So
Mike Goldman (29:48):
hold on.
Because by the way, this is notabout my audience.
I do this show to for people tofix me, and as long as it fixes
me, I'm good.
Michelle Scott (29:56):
yeah.
And, yeah, so, so there's thatfirst step, right?
The step out of the story.
kind of let go of the story,create a little freedom inside,
do that self-forgiveness to kindof clean that up.
And then we could look, maybestart to see the mirror.
'cause that mirror is hard tosee for some people.
I said the forgiveness, I thinkwas the eighth degree black belt
(30:16):
move.
But really it's looking in themirror.
Okay.
Now, so, so now Mike, looking inthe mirror, where might you be?
It might be different than whatyou described, like somebody
sharing oversharing or whatever,but where are you?
Maybe you potentially, you don'thave to fully own it, but maybe
being rude either to yourself orsomeone else in your life.
Mike Goldman (30:40):
Yeah.
I think for me it's almost theopposite of in like, not, I
don't think I could probably belong-winded from time to time,
but I don't think that's a bigissue for me, but I'm impatient.
And it's one of the reasons whythat is such a pet peeve for me
is I am, you know, high d on thedisc scale and always damn proud
(31:01):
of it.
Like, we're gonna get down tobusiness, let's do it.
but that is, I could beimpatient.
I find myself, really having tostop myself from interrupting
other people, which isincredibly rude.
Michelle Scott (31:13):
It's so rude.
Mike Goldman (31:14):
do it All the time.
Hey, you just interrupted me,
Michelle Scott (31:18):
Yes.
Okay, so that's how you look inthe mirror.
It's not going to be exactlyperfectly, it could be exactly
the same thing.
It could be where I'm actuallyoversharing and telling the da
annoying people, but often it'ssomething a little different,
but it's still rude.
It's still something that'sstill, could be called the rude.
You know, someone else iscalling you rude because you do
that behind your back orwhatever, you know?
(31:40):
But that's how we use the mirrorto, to look at ourselves.
And so what just happened as youlooked at it that way, inside of
you?
Is that helpful?
Mike Goldman (31:49):
Yeah, it's helpful because it's basically, you
know, Not that I'm doing thesame thing as these other people
or the uncle I'm talking about,but I have the same problem of
being rude just in a differentway.
And it makes me moreunderstanding.
It's like, yeah, it's coming outme in a different way, but I'm
no better than they
Michelle Scott (32:09):
Right.
Thank you.
That's it.
That's the bottom line.
I'm no better.
I'm doing it.
Mike Goldman (32:14):
Yeah, the, you know, and what this reminds me
of too, and it's funny, likethese are things I coach on, but
it's so hard to see it myself,is my whole.
Ted talk that I mentionedearlier about my son is all
about something.
You know, that I call in the TEDTalk, the Law of Positive Intent
law of positive intent sayseveryone's just trying to do the
(32:34):
best they can with the resourcesthey have and so are, and by the
way, the reason I did the TEDTalk and the reason why I coach
on this and I talk about it is'cause I know I struggle with
that.
I very quickly look at otherpeople and judge and say, oh,
they, you know, they're justtrying to throw a wrench in.
They're being a pain in the neckon purpose.
(32:55):
But when I think about it, inall my many years, I've never
known anyone who woke up in themorning and said, what could I
screw up today?
Like, no one's truly up to nogood.
But we put that on people and Iput that on people.
So thinking, everybody's justtrying to do the best they can
with the resources they havemakes you think, well, what do I
(33:17):
know that they don't know?
Or what do they know that Idon't know?
What resources do they have thatI may not have?
And it, you know, all this kindof comes together in, into one,
one big, pretty important ideaabout how we think about
ourselves and others.
Michelle Scott (33:30):
Yeah.
Oh, I, and I did think of whatI, what I popped outta my head
there, is that this is, and thisis a normal thing that egos do,
is this the mirror thing?
It's also about projectingoutward.
It's, it might be that your egodoesn't want to own that I'm,
that you're rude because that'snot a nice thing.
(33:51):
I don't wanna see myself as notnice and kind and.
All the things.
And so then what egos naturally,just normally this is normal,
people do this, but that's why Ilike people to become self-aware
because then we can catch on towhat's happening in our egos and
create different experiences andbetter hopefully better outcomes
for in different ways.
But, I'm, if I'm seeing that outthere, that's why I spotted I
(34:14):
got it.
I can look back in, becauseoften our egos are trying to
project it out so it doesn't, Idon't have to feel bad that I'm
rude.
And it's a usually a protectivemechanism actually.
So it's a, we can be kind andgentle with ourselves even if we
are doing that projection oreven if we are rude.
but, if we can start torecognize that, that is the key,
and that's why I teachself-awareness as a base tool,
(34:37):
even in leadership, for leaders,for teams like self-awareness.
To me is the root cause, and ithelps everything move along
better if we're all takingresponsibility and seeing the
mirror.
Holy cow.
Can you imagine if everybody ona team was looking in that
mirror and acknowledging that,like you said, like everybody is
doing the best they can.
That's what I'm talking about.
(34:58):
That's what I hear you talkingabout as well, so.
Mike Goldman (35:00):
Love it.
and I've heard you may, maybe itwas when we, the first time we
talked and met each other, andby the way, we, Michelle and I
met at a speaking event.
We were together at, and youmentioned this concept of, label
jail.
Michelle Scott (35:15):
Yes.
Mike Goldman (35:16):
And I don't know if that relates at all to what
we're talking about or if it's adifferent idea, but dig into
what Label Jail is.
Michelle Scott (35:22):
Yeah, label jail is so much fun and we started to
get creative with it, like getoutta jail free cards and things
like that too.
That was fun.
yeah.
Label Jail is when we putourselves, it could even be,
we're putting ourselves perhapstoo, but it's putting ourselves
or others in a box and notletting them get out of the box.
And what that does is stopsgrowth.
And where I have seen it show upin the, with the teams and the
(35:44):
folks I work with in leadershipis, if I have somebody who,
let's say they make a mistakeand it might be a big mistake,
small mistake or whatever, itdepends on who they're making
the mistake with.
Because that person might be aperson who really judges hard if
you make a small mistake,depending on what's going on in
their consciousness, right?
But, so you could get put injail for different levels of
(36:06):
offenses.
But let's say I made a mistake,and somebody put me in label
jail, I could get fired for thatbecause if they had never let me
out of the box so I can grow andbecome a better person and
correct it or make amends orhowever that would be, they're
not gonna even give me a chanceto, clean it up.
And I might be amazing at what Ido, but because they've ho are
(36:29):
holding me in label jail.
They're going to miss out on theopportunity to really experience
my gifts because they're holdingonto this judgment based on a
past experience that who knowswhat really happened?
Did somebody actually inquireinto what was happening?
Maybe my mother just died and I,you know, this thing happened.
(36:50):
Maybe I have, neurodivergentways of thinking and it's harder
for me to do certain things.
Or, I mean, it could be anynumber of things.
So.
Mike Goldman (36:59):
love that.
And what it reminds me of is I,and I used to do this all the
time, one of the things I dowith my clients is I help them
assess the performance of theirteams, of their direct reports.
And I used to label people Aplayer, B player, C player, and
Toxic C player.
And I stopped doing that, thatthose particular labels, because
people were talking about likeif you labeled somebody a B
(37:21):
player, they would talk about.
That person as if that's whothey were, you know, as if 35
years ago the doctor came outand said, Mr.
Goldman, I'm so sorry, your wifehas given birth to an eight
pound, two ounce B player.
It's like, no, that they may beperforming at a certain level
Right.
now and they need some work, butthose labels of a player, B
(37:42):
player, C player, that's puttingpeople in label jail and it
becomes really.
Harmful.
I love that.
I love that.
so Michelle, as we start to, towrap up, talk a little bit about
some of the different things youdo with clients.
How do you help clients?
Is it all one-on-one?
Is it in groups?
Is it with teams?
how do you work with clients?
Michelle Scott (38:03):
Yeah.
I appreciate you asking.
I actually, I love one-on-one,one-on-one coaching.
That, that is the largest partof my coaching practice.
I will help out and do teams ifI have a client that, needs some
help because with their team,because the team dynamics are
impacting my client, you know,so I wanna clean up all the
pieces of the puzzle.
So I'll come in and help.
(38:24):
smooth that team out, I guess isa way to say, like, help
everybody get into a bettersituation from individuals to
the leader themselves.
but yeah, mostly I do one-on-oneand I really, I just love what I
do.
So if I can be of service, ifI'm gonna do that,
Mike Goldman (38:39):
I love it.
So, if people are interested intalking to you about that, where
should they go to find out more?
Michelle Scott (38:44):
Yeah.
I was originally going to givemy website, but actually I think
I would just prefer to, whichI'll need to get to, is my
scheduling link and just putthat right in the show notes, so
that saves a step if they wouldlike to have a conversation.
That's what I like to do withpeople, and there's no pressure
obligations at all.
It's just a conversation to getto know you and.
hear about what you have goingon in your life, what's working,
(39:06):
what isn't working, and maybe wecan even break through a little
bit on that short call, and justsee if there's a way I could
support you.
So that's really the next step.
And we can maybe put somethingin the show notes.
I'm, I
Mike Goldman (39:17):
Yeah, we'll do that, give us the name of the
website anyway, but then we'llput that in the show notes.
Michelle Scott (39:20):
Okay.
So my website iswww.michellescottcoaching.com
and there is a book, a freediscovery call on that website
too, just trying to make it easyfor folks so.
Yeah.
Mike Goldman (39:30):
Beautiful.
thank you for starting to fix myrudeness.
I'm sure I still have some workto do.
We'll have to do this five orsix more times,
Michelle Scott (39:37):
Yeah.
Mike Goldman (39:37):
I'll get over it and I'll be able to talk to
Uncle Richie again withoutgetting all angry at him.
Michelle Scott (39:42):
See, and you have embodied it, so that's
great.
Mike Goldman (39:44):
there you go.
So, so, so it's not all aboutme, but it's partially about me.
If you want a great company, Ialways say you need a great
leadership team.
Michelle, thanks for helping usget there today.
Michelle Scott (39:55):
You're so welcome.
I had a great time with youtoday.
I appreciate you.
Mike Goldman (39:58):
Me too.
Thanks.
Michelle Scott (39:59):
Yep.
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