December 9, 2025 • 44 mins
In this episode of The Better Leadership Team Show, I talk with retired executive and Navy veteran Scott Millson, author of The Frequency of Excellence. We explore how leaders can “tune into excellence” by cultivating a growth mindset, fostering mentorship, and leading with reflection and humor. Scott shares his powerful B5 Framework and insights from decades of leadership experience — including why culture is the shadow of the leader, how to use feed forward instead of feedback, and why laughter may be one of the most underrated leadership tools.
Thanks for listening! Connect with us at mike-goldman.com/blog and on Instagram@mikegoldmancoach and on YouTube @Mikegoldmancoach
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Episode Transcript
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Scott Millson (00:02):
I am nothing without the mentors that shaped
me.
Period.
End of sentence, full stop.
I'm also grateful for is myfather early in my career
encouraged me to do that.
He said, seek out mentors, likeseek'em out, like lean into
them.
But the other thing he told methat I think is really powerful,
'cause I think this existstoday, we've got a mentorship
gap in the United States today.
(00:22):
I read a study it was a 2019study that said that.
There's a gap that exists in ourcountry today because, 80% of
people know that mentorship isimportant, yet only 37% of
people would say they have amentor.
Mike Goldman (00:42):
You made it to the better leadership team show, the
place where you learn how tosurround yourself with the right
people, doing the right things.
So you can grow your businesswithout losing your mind.
I'm your host and leadershipteam coach, Mike Goldman.
I'm going to show you how toimprove top and bottom line
growth, fulfillment, and thevalue your company adds to the
(01:02):
world by building a betterleadership team.
All right, let's go.
Mike (01:14):
Scott Millson is a mostly retired executive who has
dedicated the second half of hiscareer to helping people find
their frequency of excellenceand grow their careers.
He has held many titles alongthe way, including founder,
president, partner owner, chiefoperating officer, and before
all those.
Petty Officer Second class, USNavy Scott has worked with and
(01:38):
for world class organizationsand leaders.
Now as an author, keynotespeaker and dedicated
encourager, he spends his dayshelping others tune into their
everyday, but not alwaysobvious, crucial lessons of life
and leadership.
And today we're gonna talk abouthis book.
And for those of you watchingthis on video, you'll see I'm
(01:58):
holding it up.
His book, the Frequency ofExcellence.
Scott, welcome to the show.
Scott Millson (02:03):
Thank you so much for having me on, Mike.
I really appreciate theopportunity to be here.
Mike (02:07):
Yeah.
Looking forward to diving in,from all of your experience,
Scott, obviously from yourintro, a whole lot of
experience.
What do you believe is the onemost important characteristic of
a great leadership team?
Scott Millson (02:19):
Yeah, so I have been fortunate, and that's
probably the best way for me tosay it.
I've been fortunate to work withjust some unbelievable, with
some unbelievable organizationsand within some unbelievable,
leadership teams.
And I would say the number onething that I've found that I
keep coming back to, and I'vetried to.
Replicate and emulate, you know,throughout my career is
alignment.
Kind of having that sharedvision where everybody's on the
boat and everybody's rowing inthe same direction.
(02:41):
'cause when you got that, theopportunities for excellence are
limitless.
You know, when you get everybodytogether that's kind of thinking
similarly, et cetera, is justunbelievable.
The opportunities that are thereand they present themselves.
so yeah, it's I'd say alignmentis probably the number one thing
for me.
Mike (02:57):
Excellent and what I see very often is.
The CEO or the leader of a teambelieves there's alignment, but
they need to hear from the restof the team in order to really
determine whether there'salignment or not.
So, so important.
what, Scott, what inspired youto write frequency of
(03:18):
excellence?
You said you're mostly retired,so it sounds like you didn't
have to do this.
What was the inspiration for it?
Scott Millson (03:24):
Yeah.
So for me, I, so I read a greatbook towards the end of my
career as I was thinking aboutretirement, I read this great
book by Arthur Brooks, and Idon't know if you know Arthur
Brooks.
Brilliant man, Harvardprofessor, social scientist,
just brilliant guy.
Something I would never have interms of that brain power.
But he wrote this great bookcalled From Strength to
Strength.
And in that book he talks about.
(03:45):
we have two curves of our lives,or at least he encourages us to
have two curves of our lives inthe first curve, we are striving
to be the best that we can.
And every CEO or any presidentyou've ever worked with, any
leadership team, they're allstriving to be the best at
whatever it is that they do.
And we're working on our resumevirtues in that first curve.
But there comes a point at whichyou start to drop off.
(04:07):
You know, whether you're losingmotivation, losing focus, maybe
it's your intellect, whatever itis, you begin to kind of drop.
And if you don't find a secondcurve, you can kind of drive
yourself into the ground.
And so his encouragement is tofind that second curve.
And so, as I was considering,okay, I'm coming towards the end
of this first curve.
What is my second curve?
so I found it.
(04:27):
And so for me, what he talksabout in the book is he talks
about these, you know, theresume virtues that you're
working on in, in, that firstcurve.
In the second curve you'reworking on sounds morbid, but
your eulogy virtues.
And so for me, I just said, whatis it that I want to give back?
And, you know, I was fortunateagain because of all those
wonderful organizations withwhom I worked and the people
(04:47):
with whom I worked.
I just wanted to share thelessons that were shared with
me.
I wanted to share'em withothers.
And so that really became thedriver for me with the book was
I spent that first curve of mylife being a sponge, and I just
collected everything when I wasaround excellence, I just.
I tuned into their frequency andI just, I gathered all that
information.
It's time for me to now squeezethe sponge and share back with
(05:08):
others what I was, so fortunateto receive in the first curve.
Mike (05:12):
So what is the big overriding message of frequency
of excellence?
Scott Millson (05:17):
Yeah, it's really a growth mindset to kind of boil
it all down.
It is really is a growthmindset.
And so you know what the, if youremember car stereos in the 19
hundreds, you and I might be ofsimilar age, so you remember
that right hand knob, right?
Yeah.
You didn't have presets, youdidn't have a digital readout,
and so my.
My favorite radio stationgrowing up was Rock 104 outta
Gainesville, Florida, which was103.7 on the radio dial.
(05:40):
And you had a hundred, and youhad a 104.
You didn't have a 103.7, so youhad to play with that knob in
order to dial it in to get ontothe right frequency.
And I think, you know, a mentorshared that with me.
this metaphor, this kind of,idea is.
Excellence surrounds us, and wejust have to be dialed into the
right frequency in order tohear.
It's like that radio wave.
(06:00):
If you don't have that tuner,you're missing it.
All you're getting is static.
And so, you know, really themessage that I'm conveying and
trying to tell people is whenyou've got a growth mindset,
when you're a constant learner,trying to figure out what you
can do to better yourself todaythan you were yesterday, or that
you were last year.
I think you've got that growthmindset.
And so if you can have theability to enter into any
(06:22):
situation saying, what am Igonna learn from this person or
from this situation?
And then have the ability tokind of add that into your
being, you know, again, theopportunity to witness
excellence is there when you gotit down in that right frequency
and then you're able to storethat for downstream use.
It just, the opportunities arelimitless then.
Mike (06:41):
I love that.
So the idea is opportunities areeverywhere.
We just need to find a way totune into it.
It makes me think of way backwhen I started my first business
back got, over, well over 20years ago, and I was told You
have to go out there andnetwork.
You gotta network.
And I hated networking.
I'm really good with people Iknow I'm horrible walking up and
(07:02):
talking to, or was horrible atwalking up and talking to
somebody I didn't know.
And one of the things I learnedis to kind of almost psych
myself up before walking intothat networking meeting.
That opportunities wereeverywhere.
So if I found someone thatalready had someone, you know,
(07:23):
if I was, you know, once I wasin my coaching business, if I
found someone that said, ohyeah, you're a coach.
I already have a coach.
Well, if I wasn't looking foropportunity, I'd say, well,
crap, this was a waste of aconversation.
He can't be a client of mine.
But the other way I startedlooking at it is, wow, this is
someone who believes incoaching.
This is the perfect person totalk to because maybe they can
(07:45):
introduce me to somebody else.
Scott Millson (07:47):
yeah, totally.
And then the other thing too ismaybe you can even connect with
that coach and learn from them.
So Right.
Somebody that obviously has donethis, has done it well enough
that they've got a client ofcustomer, the similar customer
that you'd like to receive.
You know, and I've found thatpeople are so willing to give,
you know, that if you can meetsomebody that's doing something
that you aspire to be, whetherit's a particular role or
they've got a skillset, just askthe question and say, Hey, I'd
(08:10):
love to pick your brain on whatyou've done and what the
pitfalls were.
How did you get, how did you getstarted?
How are you winning business?
You know, what do you finding isthe most difficult thing you're
coaching people on today?
And then it's an opportunity tolearn.
So to your point, you've got,you're dialed into that
frequency.
And if you weren't, you'd hit,you'd hear static, right?
When you had that conversation,to your point, you'd have been
like, I'm out.
(08:30):
You know, I'm out.
I'm, you know, nice meeting thisperson, but they're not gonna be
able to help me.
So I'll go move to the otherside of the room.
And instead you get curious andyou go, let's just double down
on that.
Let's see what I can learn fromthem or from their coach.
So yeah, if you've dialed intothe right frequency, the
opportunities are there.
Mike (08:46):
in your book, you talk about something you call
reflective leadership.
Un unpack that.
What?
What does that mean?
Scott Millson (08:53):
Yeah.
So for me, again, it's because Iwas surrounded with excellence.
I knew that I'm an every man,generally speaking, like I am an
every man.
I'm a career B student.
I knew as I started myprofessional career in 1990 that
I was never gonna be thesmartest person in the room, but
I could outlearn everybody andoutwork everybody, and that kind
of became my superpower.
(09:14):
So my ability to kind of.
Learn from others that werearound me.
And then reflect.
Reflect on it, right?
So reflect on what I justlearned, what I just saw.
And you know, there is somethingcalled the power of the pause,
right?
So when you see something thatis excellent and stirs a passion
within you, you know, you kindof get a shot of dopamine.
It stores in your brain thatway, but it only encodes if you
(09:36):
take the moment to pause and toreflect on that.
And so for me, you know, mycareer is, I just, I, you know,
as I was writing the book,actually the working title I had
was called My Leadership Mosaicbecause I am made up of all
those pieces and I've made amosaic of all the people that I,
you know, surrounded myselfwith.
And so that, that is myreflection, you know, it's
reflective leadership is takingall those lessons in, storing
(09:58):
them in your brain and thenusing'em.
Later.
And so if I was in a salessituation or a leadership
situation or a difficult clientsituation, I reflected on what I
saw somebody else do, and Iwould go, that's right.
This is how Brian handled thatin that moment.
Let me use that.
And, you know, then I wouldtinker with it and have it
become my own.
But I'm just a reflection ofthose with whom I've had the
(10:19):
pleasure of working.
Mike (10:21):
How do we make sure, I mean, there's so many things
every day that if we're really.
Tuned into the right frequency.
To use your metaphor, there's somany things every day that are
learning opportunities for us.
People, situations, successes,failures.
I is there a way you've seenthat works?
(10:41):
You know, maybe it's journalingevery day.
I don't know what it is, but howdo we make sure we don't let
that those lessons fly bywithout grabbing hold of them?
Scott Millson (10:52):
Yeah, so it's funny you asked that'cause I, as
I was writing the book and afterI did that, now I've kind of
launched into a speaking career.
I kept getting the question of,well.
To that point, how do you playwith that tuner?
How do I know when I enter in asituation, what can I do to make
sure that I'm dialed into theright frequency?
So I came up with what I callthe B five framework.
And so the B five framework isfive B statements that you can
(11:15):
use kind of action statements ofthings you can do when you enter
a situation to make sure thatyou're gonna learn in that
situation.
So, so the first one is to beintentional.
Be intentional to people withwhom you surround yourself when
you surround yourself withexcellence.
Your opportunity to witnessexcellence increases
dramatically.
And so it's the old adage ofiron sharpens iron high tide,
(11:35):
lift salt boats.
You know, show me your friends,I'll show you your future.
When you surround yourself withpeople that, that demonstrate
excellence, and you'reintentional about that, the
opportunities again, becomelimitless.
And then when you areintentional with that, be
present.
And so it's overstated today.
You know, everybody said yougotta be present, and that's
(11:55):
true.
But when you're with somebody,truly listen more than you
speak.
I call it the new 80 20 rule,which is, listen, 80% talk 20%,
and when you do that.
The opportunity for you to kindof really hear what's going on
when you're present and you'rereally active listening with
people, actively listening.
Again, that's your tuner.
And then when you are present,be curious.
(12:16):
And so that's the third.
B is to be curious, and I thinkit's an under-utilized
superpower today that we're notcurious enough.
You know, I had a mentor onetime, we were prepping for a big
meeting in New York City and inthe middle of, he asked me a
question and I started ramblingand going off on a tangent and
he said under his breath.
A Latin phrase and I was like, Ibarely speak pig Latin.
(12:38):
Like I don't speak Latin.
Like unpack that.
So at the end of it I wascurious and I asked him, I said,
mark, what did you whisperthere?
You said something like Eloquaad, what is that?
And he goes, it speak with apurpose.
And basically what he was doing,it was in a very kind way kind
of hammering me.
Dude, you gotta stop wandering.
You're just filling the wordswith air.
You're not having a real thesisto your words.
(12:59):
And that was a turning point inmy communication career.
And, but it only happenedbecause I was present.
Also, I was curious and I askeda question of like, what does
that mean?
I could have just let it go andbeen like, okay, whatever that
guy said, you know, and let itgo, but I didn't.
and then being bold is aboutlearning is leaning into your
failures.
You know, I've had a careerfilled with failures, as much
failure as I've had success.
(13:20):
but I've used those scars, youknow, I've healed those open
wounds and I've used those scarsto, to help me in the future.
And so being bold is the fourthone.
And then the last one is, wetalked earlier about being
reflective.
You know, embracing the power ofthe pause and allowing that to
encode in our brains.
You know, the hippocampus storesare short term and our long term
memories, and you gotta pause.
(13:41):
Otherwise it doesn't shift fromshort term to long term.
And in order to be successful,you gotta have those memories
and those long term things thatyou can call upon.
So that, yeah, that defiframework.
Yeah.
Mike (13:51):
I'm gonna, I wrote those down.
I love these podcasts.
I'm,'cause I'm like, to me it'slike I'm learning from all these
teachers every time I do apodcast.
So I wrote these down and Iwanna just summarize them again
for, or at least restate themagain for folks.
'cause I think it's so powerfuljust when you are entering into
a.
Conversation, meeting a newperson, new project, new
(14:13):
business, new client, newwhatever you're doing.
The B five was be intentional,be present, be curious, be bold
and be reflective.
That's so, so powerful.
Now in, in going through yourbooks, Scott.
So many different things thatcover, you know, leadership and
management and career and salesand all these things.
(14:34):
and I wanna, I don't wanna tryand focus on all those in the
time we've got, but I wannafocus on a few, That I know were
relevant for me, and I'massuming if they're relevant for
me, they're relevant to myaudience.
So I'm just gonna dive deep on afew things and have you unpack
it.
One is, you know, you talkabout, you know, speaking of
being reflective, you talkabout, seeking mentors and
(14:55):
building your own reflection.
Collection, which sounds likethat mosaic you were talking
about.
but go dig a little deeper forus on the idea of reflection
collection and, you know, how,how you go out and find those
mentors and how you leveragethose mentors.
Scott Millson (15:12):
Yeah, I am nothing without the mentors that
shaped me.
Period.
End of sentence, full stop.
Like I, I am so grateful to thementors that shaped me, but what
I'm also grateful for is myfather early in my career
encouraged me to do that.
He said, seek out mentors, likeseek'em out, like lean into
them.
But the other thing he told methat I think is really powerful,
(15:34):
'cause I think this existstoday, we've got a mentorship
gap in the United States today.
I read a study that was a, itwas a 2019 study that said that.
There's a gap that exists in ourcountry today because, 80% of
people know that mentorship isimportant, yet only 37% of
people would say they have amentor.
And so what is that gap like?
(15:54):
Why does that exist?
And I think a lot of it ispeople are looking for a
formalization.
Maybe it's HR comes down andsays, Hey, Mike, you're gonna be
mentored by this person, right?
Tom's gonna be your mentor.
Sally's gonna be your mentor.
You know, work with them.
And if people are waiting forthat to happen, I think they're
missing an opportunity becauseI've had 50 mentors.
I can name'em, you know, rightoff the top of my head.
(16:16):
People that guided my career andwere really.
Inspirational and helpful forme.
Not in one of those situationsdid I ever go up to them and
say, Hey, will you mentor me?
It was an organic relationshipthat developed over time by me
working with somebody sayingthey're at a place or they're
doing something that I aspireto, to be or to have.
And so.
(16:37):
I would just watch'em, I wouldlisten to them.
I would be curious around them.
You know, those are the peoplethat I just started saying, I
want to be like that.
I wanna take, you know, taketheir skills and do that.
And so over time a real nicerelationship developed.
I mean, I've got some mentorsthat I still today, I haven't
seen in 20 years.
But I'll pick up the phone andI'll call'em and I say, Hey, I'm
(16:58):
considering doing X, Y, or Z.
What do you think?
and that only became because ofthat relationship and there was
a trust there, and there wasjust a wonderful relationship
that developed over time.
And so yeah, I, I sought outmentors.
but again, never really all thatformal, I never had a
certificate on my wall thatsaid, John is Scott's mentor.
They've completed thismentorship program, check the
box.
(17:19):
It doesn't, it didn't exist.
And, and I think they're morepowerful because they happened
organically and we really leanedinto one another.
Mike (18:46):
I wonder if it's a bit more difficult today, and let me
run this by you.
What's going through my head isback.
You know, I just turned 60 thisyear and so I, you know, I have,
you know, 35 plus years outthere in the business world and
back when you actually.
W what?
When before remote and hybridwork.
(19:08):
Now there are a lot more folksgoing back to work now, which I
back to a physical location,which I think is a good thing.
But whe before remote and hybridwork like you'd.
You chat with people in thehallway, you chat with people
before the meeting.
After the meeting, it was easyto say, Hey, I'd, you know, I'd
love to bend your ear on a fewthings.
Why don't we, you know, you freefor lunch today.
(19:29):
You free for lunch tomorrow.
And these days, so much of whatwe do is you are on a Zoom call
or a teams call, and then thecall is over and you go back to
work.
so it feels to me like we've gotto be a lot more purposeful in
seeking those folks out becausethey may not happen as, it may
(19:51):
not happen as naturally as maybeit did 5, 10, 25 years ago.
Scott Millson (19:58):
yeah.
No doubt.
I mean, I would say that,today's world is more difficult
if you've not met somebody.
So in, in those 50 scenarioswhere I had 50 mentors, probably
48 of'em are people that I had.
Pressed palms with, right?
I had worked alongside, we hadsweat together, we had, you
know, shared blood together ondifferent projects.
And so there was real depth thatkind of came from that
(20:19):
relationship.
there, there were a couplethough, that are people that,
candidly, I've never met face toface.
It's somebody that I had arelationship with, either on a
project of some sort, but wenever really formally met.
That's probably later in mycareer as kind of Zoom and other
things came about.
But it's somebody once againthat I leaned in on that
relationship and said they aredoing something, or they are,
they're performing in a mannerin which I want to do that.
(20:42):
And so it is more difficult forsure.
It's not impossible, but it ismore difficult.
And it is an encouragement forpeople that if you are hybrid.
Take those opportunities to, tofind an opportunity to get to
the head office or to go to thesales meeting, or to go to the
leadership retreat, whatever itis, don't buy, don't miss those
opportunities to press palms to,you know, to meet somebody.
(21:04):
To sit eye, to eye withsomebody, to develop a
relationship that is more,based, more so than virtual
based.
And so don't miss thoseopportunities'cause they are
there.
And, I do think they are thefoundation of a really strong
relationship that could exist.
Mike (21:18):
I think it also means as leaders and most folks listening
to this podcast or are leadersat some level as leaders, let's
be proactive and.
Mentor folks, find those folksto mentor.
Don't, you know, don'tnecessarily wait.
(21:38):
what do you think of that?
You know, as leaders, how can webe more proactive and find those
opportunities to mentor someoneelse?
Scott Millson (21:48):
Yeah, I love that, that the frequency of
excellence is a dual signal,right?
So I spent the majority of mycareer taking that in from
people, and so I was tuned intotheir frequency.
But there does come a pointwhere you have to realize that
people are gonna start tuninginto your frequency.
And so therefore it becomes kindof a, that dual signal and it
really starts to take root.
(22:09):
And so I think it's reallyimportant as you grow in your
career and you hit thatleadership levels, you have to
understand that culture is areflection of the leader.
So go back to that alignment.
If I'm not modeling thebehaviors of what I'm telling
people, saying, Hey, look, it'sreally important for us to be
ethical.
Just take that as an example, ifthat's one of our core values.
(22:30):
Everything I do needs to makesure that it's passing the test
of if somebody's watching me, amI be, am I behaving in a way
that's consistent with whatwe've got hanging on the wall,
right?
So I have to make sure that I'mdoing those things.
And so I think as leaders, it'sreally important for us to
understand that people arewatching us and people are
looking for us to be theirmentors.
And when you see somebodyleaning in, being present, being
(22:52):
curious.
Seek them out, right.
And then pour into them and say,Hey, look, I noticed that you
were asking some good questionsfollowing that meeting, what can
I do to help you?
Is there a way that I might beable to set aside some time to
meet with you and dissect, youknow, kind of what you're
working on?
and I can share what I'm workingon too.
And again, that's that dualfrequency.
I spent that first part of mycareer doing that to others.
(23:15):
I need to return that favor.
And that's that second curvethat I'm in now, is I want to
just share that with others.
And so, you know, if somebody'slistening to this or somebody
reading my book reaches out, I'mengaging them.
I wanna talk to them and I wannasee how can I help them because,
it's my turn to kind of giveback on that.
Mike (23:31):
Yeah.
Digging into that a little bitmore, you know, part of it is.
You know, talking to folks inthat second curve of your
career.
By the way, I think I'm on curvenumber three or four if that's
possible, but,
Scott Millson (23:44):
Good.
Keep
Mike (23:44):
that's just'cause I get bored quickly.
but one of the things as wetalked before this and preparing
for this and you and I tradingsome information back and forth,
one of the things you said to methat I think factors into, to
one of the things you just said,so I wanna unpack it a little
bit, is you said.
Culture is the shadow of theleader, and leaders need to
understand that they're a forcemultiplier for both good and
(24:08):
bad.
Talk a little bit more aboutthat.
I think that's such an importantpoint.
Scott Millson (24:13):
Yeah, I mean, so I come from a military
background.
You've mentioned I served in theNavy and in that, you know,
there's a term within the Navythat they use, which is a, it's
a force multiplier, somethingsmall that has a kind of
disproportionate impact.
And as a leader, I believe thatwe are force multipliers, how we
act, how we behave.
Impacts others.
And so I, I'll give you a greatexample.
(24:34):
I had a consulting client onetime that was, that was a
restaurant they had, they weregrowing barbecue restaurant,
which by the way, I lovebarbecue.
So, but so, so it was easy forme to get this one as a client.
But I remember riding aroundwith the owner one time and he
said, look, when I walk into arestaurant.
And I start interacting with theteam.
I can tell the mood of thegeneral manager based on the
(24:55):
team and how they're interactingwith customers or me or anybody
else.
And so I said, I unpacked thatwith him.
And I said, what do you mean bythat?
And he said, because he said thegeneral manager, they're in a
good mood, right?
And they're high energy andthey're running around the
restaurant and they're modelingthe behaviors they want others
to, to do.
He said, I can guarantee thatthe team is gonna be in a good.
(25:15):
Good place.
He said, conversely, if the teamis just kind of moping about and
kind of interacting with theguest a little bit, but they're
not high energy or anything, hegoes, I can find the general
manager and know that they're inthat same place.
He said, so it's a forcemultiplier that general manager
is a force multiplier.
How they act people are going totake from them, they're gonna
take their cues from theirleader.
(25:36):
And so it was such a goodreminder for me of the need to
be as a leader, a strong forcemultiplier.
But it also.
Understand that it's a two-edgedsword, right?
Because you gotta use that powerfor good, knowing that you're a
force multiplier.
Be, you know, be positive, beoptimistic.
Those things are forcemultipliers for the good.
(25:56):
Conversely, I've seen really badleaders that when the wind
shifts just a little bit,they're just in the dirt.
You know, they just drivethemselves into the dirt and
they're just like, oh, woe is meand terrible situation going on
in the climate, the economy,whatever it is.
And people take their cues fromthat too.
And so you gotta know that as aleader, you are a force
multiplier and you gotta usethat power for good.
Mike (26:20):
Yeah.
You talk about, being a laughingleader, which I think relates to
this.
Talk a little bit more aboutthat.
Scott Millson (26:27):
Yeah.
You know, I was so fortunate.
You know, I graduated college in1989.
I went to work for anorganization called Hewitt
Associates.
I was there 17 years.
The organization doesn't reallyexist anymore.
It kind of got bought and soldmultiple times, but it was.
My foundation, anything I amtoday as a professional and
maybe even as a person I gotfrom that organization.
(26:47):
And one of the things I loved isI was a 22-year-old, you know,
bright eyed, bushy haired.
I had hair back then, but youknow, bright, bushy haired kid
running in.
Ready to kind of conquer theworld.
And what I loved is we workedhard.
I mean, we worked 80, 90 hourweeks.
I actually hit 100, you know,hours in a week one time.
Just, we worked really hard, butwe played hard too.
(27:09):
Like we had no, you know, noproblem poking fun at one
another.
And so it was just a greatreminder for me that we gotta
take our job seriously, but wedon't have to take ourselves so
seriously.
And I think when we as leaders.
Inject humor and look, it alwaysneeds to be good natured, right?
don't be that person that puts,you know.
Puts other people down oranything like that, like don't
(27:30):
do that.
'cause that force multiplier,again, people will pick up on
that.
But when you can laugh amongyour peers, when you can set an
environment that says, you knowwhat, y'all can poke fun at me.
That's fine.
Let's, that's okay.
I think that humanizes us asleaders that says it's okay for
us to have some fun.
And so, I mean, I remember onetime in particular we did, it
was April Fools and we just, westayed up late one night and we
(27:52):
just put.
Different pranks all around theoffice.
And it was great and the leaderwas right there with us doing
it.
And it was just, you know, itwas just a great environment in
which to work and you know, forme to start my career.
But, you know, laughter I thinkhumanizes us.
I think it gives us all shots ofdopamine and it gives people a
desire to want to come to workin an environment where like,
we're gonna work hard.
(28:13):
don't mistake that, but we'regonna have some fun as well.
And so I always had this beliefof we all need to be laughing
leaders and to lead that byexample.
Mike (28:21):
Yeah.
what it reminds me of issomething that I.
Coach a lot of my CEOs on that Iwork with is very often A CEO
thinks I'm gonna hire a head ofHR or I'm gonna make my head of
hr the owner of the culturewithin the organization.
And I always say, well, youknow, a head of HR can do a lot
(28:44):
to help you promote the cultureand further define the culture
and all that stuff, but.
As the CEO, you own the culture.
Nobody else could own that.
And I think that's to your pointof people are gonna take their
cue from the leader.
Scott Millson (28:58):
yeah.
You can't, you know, as I saidearlier, I think culture is a
shadow of a leader.
You notice I didn't say cultureis the shadow of hr, right?
I mean, HR can carry thatforward and they might be the
catalyst to help drive some ofthose things, but people are
taking their cues from theirleader, not from hr.
HR is wonderful and they're, youknow, really helpful within an
organization, but they shouldnot be asked to set the culture.
(29:20):
You know, it should be theleader.
The leader has to be the onethat is gonna, that's gonna set
the stage, and people are gonnafollow what they do, not
necessarily what HR does.
You know, they're not gonnafollow Toby Flenderson.
They're gonna follow, you know,they're gonna follow the leader
and the culture that they'resetting for themselves, you
know?
Mike (29:35):
The other thing that, that you talked about in the book
that I wanted to dig into alittle bit,'cause it's so
relevant to some of the workthat I do and helping my
clients.
Coach and develop, you know,talent within their organization
is you talk about the idea offeed forward being way more
important than, than feedback.
(29:57):
What is the difference betweenfeed forward and feedback and
why is it so much moreimportant?
Scott Millson (30:01):
Yeah.
Well, I love that in yourupcoming book, you know, the
strength of talent is you haveMarshall Goldsmith blurb at the
top.
So Feed Forward for me camefrom.
Marshall Goldsmith.
I was fortunate, thatorganization I was with, Hewlett
Associates.
They had a really strong beliefthat learning and development
was one of the most importantorganizations within our
company.
and so they really pushed hardon learning and development, and
(30:25):
I was fortunate enough to be ina leadership capacity and they
would pull leaders together.
you know, twice a year.
And so we'd go up to Chicago andthey'd bring in speakers.
And I was fortunate at one timethat Marshall Goldsmith was one
of those.
And so he sat before a hundredof the leaders of this
organization and gave us thisnugget of feed forward versus
feedback.
And so it's funny, we all knowthat we're, the term feedback is
(30:47):
a gift, right?
But if it's a gift, when I saythe word feedback to most
people.
It like tightens the stomach,like, Hey, we're gonna sit down
and do some feedback, andeverybody's like, oh no.
Like, oh, here it comes.
Right?
Because they, feedback is basedon the past.
you're giving somebody counselon something that has happened
immediately.
When you hear that you're gonnaget defensive, well, you don't
(31:10):
quite understand the situation.
I didn't, you don't understandthe context in which that
situation happened or whatever.
You immediately get defensive,which all that means is you're
not listening.
You're not hearing what theperson is trying to give you.
So we say feedback as a gift,but we don't receive it very
well.
We don't receive it as a gift.
And what Marshall Goldsmith gaveus was work on doing feed
(31:30):
forward.
So instead of feedback, talkingabout something in the past,
talk about something in thefuture and do it as coaching.
And so instead of saying, Hey,look, in that last meeting, I
think you need to have a betteropening.
You know, I think you need to, Ithink you need to be more
concise with your words on that.
So that's very well.
Intended feedback that you'regiving somebody.
But imagine if I give the exactsame coaching and I say, Hey,
(31:51):
look in our upcoming meeting,you know, I think it'd be really
focus on that intro today.
Really focus in on kind of howyou're opening that.
Think about the objections thatmight be coming their way.
Think about that in advance, andI, and let's role play that a
little bit.
That doesn't tighten thestomach.
That loosens the stomach.
And so feedback is tighteningthat stomach because you're
talking about something in thepast, and I have to defend
(32:13):
myself, right?
You're telling me I didn't dosomething right.
Feed forward is just talkingabout something that hasn't
happened yet.
I can't be defensive.
It hasn't happened.
And so it was just, it was agift that I got that, that
coaching from Marshall Goldsmiththat, it became a cornerstone of
my career.
I think that was probably 20, 24years ago.
I heard that.
And, he shared that with us andit has stuck with me and it's as
(32:33):
if it would happened yesterday.
So it is definitely part of thatreflection collection.
Mike (32:38):
And it's such a small.
But important distinction, likeit's so easy to turn feedback
into feed forward in the way,hey, you know, next time in a
meeting, let's focus on this.
It's so easy.
You could do that with anythingyou're thinking of, giving
feedback on.
you could flip that switch.
So I love those things that areso powerful and yet so easy to
(33:01):
do.
the key, I guess the hardestpart is not.
Flipping the switch.
The hardest part is rememberingto flip the switch.
Scott Millson (33:09):
Yeah.
And it becomes a, you know,leadership is a muscle, you
know, it requires exercise.
And so just like anything thatis good in our lives, we have to
keep doing it.
We have to exercise it.
And I think leadership is amuscle.
And so when you work that muscleand you continually are giving
feed forward, it just becomesnatural.
So instead of saying tosomebody, Hey, let's sit down
and we're gonna, we're gonnagive you some feedback, and we
(33:31):
go into that, just startcoaching people and saying, Hey,
you know what, I'd like to sitdown and let's talk about the
upcoming meeting that we've gotcoming.
And it changes everything.
And so if you do that over andover again, it becomes
repetitive and it becomes thatmuscle and you get muscle
memory.
Mike (33:46):
One more thing I want to ask before we start to wrap up
and it actually kind of loopsback to the mentoring
conversation, but it just jumpedin my head and I think it's
important is, you know, when weare younger professionals, if we
are looking for it, there areseemingly dozens of mentors out
(34:06):
there.
Folks that are more successful,more senior have something to
teach us.
But when we are.
You know, 50 something, 60something.
And we are leaders within ourorganization.
We are, vice presidents orC-level executives or CEOs
(34:27):
within the organization.
there's a whole lot more peopledown, lower than us on the org
chart than above us on the orgchart.
So, as senior leaders, howshould we go about.
Finding mentors'cause easy tosay, well now it's my time to
mentor.
I'm 60 years old, I don't needto be mentored anymore.
You know, bullshit.
(34:47):
I still need to look for mentorsmyself.
so as senior leaders, how do wego about finding mentors when
we're at that point in ourcareer?
Scott Millson (34:55):
Yeah, so we talked earlier about how leaders
need to make sure that theyunderstand that they're modeling
the behavior that they wantpeople to do.
So if you want people in yourorganization to find mentors,
guess what?
you gotta find mentors, yougotta talk openly.
'cause like if you're in, ifyou're sitting with your
leadership team, or maybe it'seven the people that report to
the leadership team, and you saythe words, you know, I was
(35:17):
talking with my mentor recentlyand this person reminded me of
X, Y, or Z, whatever it is,guess what you has done?
You've now injected intoeverybody that's sitting in that
audience and go, oh, mentorshipis important to that person.
And if I aspire to be like them.
Maybe I need to start thinkingabout mentorship.
And so mentorship, I mean, inanything we do as a leader, we
(35:39):
need to recognize that we arebeing watched, we are being
seen, we're, people are modelingthe behaviors after us.
So we have to, in everythingthat we do, make sure that we
are setting that course forpeople.
And so, you know, I believe thatas if I, you know, go back to
what we started talking aboutinitially, growth mindset is so
important for me, it has been,if I had any superpower.
(36:01):
It was my ability to observe, myability to watch, listen, and
learn, and then, you know, usethose skills that I was able to
develop from others.
But as I grew in my career, Iknew that I needed to set an
organizational culture thatrewarded that.
So if I saw somebody in myorganization that was seeking
out learning, if they wereseeking out ways that they could
(36:23):
get better at something, if theywere seeking out mentors.
I rewarded that I was very vocalabout, Hey, this is what this
person recently did to improvethemselves.
Kudos to them, whatever thatmight be.
Kudos might be dollars, it mightbe whatever, a pat on the back.
It might be, you know,recognition within a team
meeting.
But when I do that as a leaderand I start recognizing and
(36:45):
setting a culture that's sayingwe want to be growth minded, we
don't wanna be fixed minded, wewanna be growth minded.
And when we do that.
Guess what?
Everybody's gonna begin tofollow that now because again,
that culture is the reflectionof me if I'm the leader.
And so, you know, you have toset an organizational culture
that is focused on growthmindedness.
and then mentorship is just abig part of that.
Mike (37:07):
Excellent.
And I find sometimes for seniorleaders, you know, as a junior
leader you could typically findpotential mentors right?
Within your organization.
They absolutely do not need tobe, but you could find a good
chunk there as a senior.
Leader very often we've gotta,we've gotta be looking outside
of our organization to theindustry group we're part of,
(37:28):
or, you know, somewhere outside.
Scott Millson (37:30):
yeah.
And look, I mean, I have neverstopped learning I today.
I mean, Simon Sinek for me is,you know, if I want to inspire
myself, I go find a video onsomething that Simon said.
I learn from him every singletime I watch what he says.
I just lean in on that guy.
I got a bit of a man crush onhim.
I just, he's just, he'sbrilliant guy.
He is done really well.
(37:51):
The way he thinks and the way hepresents information, I just
think is phenomenal and so.
I've never stopped growing andlearning, and I will use that
with people.
You know, if I'm before a team,I'll say, you know, I was
watching a podcast, or I waslistening to, maybe it was Mike
Goldman's podcast, whatever itis, right?
I wanna give the credit to whom,the person that shared that with
me, but more than anything, butI'm really doing is I'm letting
(38:12):
'em know I'm not a continuousjourney of growth here.
I'm not done.
You know, there's an old CPAterm that's called Sally, which
means same as last year.
What you wanna avoid is don'tbe, Sally.
Don't ever get comfortable withsaying, same as last year, that
I'm gonna be where I am tomorrowof where I am today.
Don't do that.
Like continually be looking totry to better yourself and
(38:34):
whatever it is that you'redoing, and when you do that, it
helps you.
But when you model that behaviorand you talk openly about it,
and you talk openly about.
The challenges why are youlistening to that podcast?
Well, I don't think I'm thatgood at X, Y, and Z.
You humanize yourself and all ofa sudden the team is leaning in
and they're learning from you.
So as a leader, just don't everforget that you are being
watched and you are being, youknow, how you behave, and the
(38:56):
model that you set will set theculture for the organization.
Mike (39:01):
For a leader listening right now that wants to embed
excellence deeper into theirorganization, where should they
start tomorrow morning?
What's one thing they ought todo tomorrow morning to move
forward on some of these ideas?
Scott Millson (39:16):
So I think it's, it's gonna sound self-serving as
I say this, but follow the Bfive framework.
You know, wake up in the morningand saying, how can I be
intentional of people with whomI surround myself?
How can I surround myself withexcellence?
Like, who in my community, whoin my industry, who in my
network is doing something thatI think is excellent?
Be closer to them.
Lean in on them, like you spendmore time with them.
(39:38):
That's the intentionality.
And then when you're there, bepresent and be curious with
them.
Really just don't be like, well,I'm gonna spend time with them.
And it was nice.
We had a nice barbecue lunch andthat was great.
No, like, be present.
Listen, you know, talk 20%.
Listen 80% do those things.
Be curious when they saysomething and then be bold to
lean into your failures andrecognize that person that you
(39:59):
think is outstanding at whatthey did, guess what?
They had a ton of failures too.
Ask them that, like, what wasyour biggest failure?
And if they say they haven't hadany.
That's a fixed mindset likethat, you're not gonna get much
from them.
But when they say, man, I've hada ton and here they are, and
here's what I learned from eachof those situations, you're
good.
And then just, you know, bereflective and take those
opportunities to learn that.
(40:20):
So I think if you wake uptomorrow morning and you can
think of those five things, Ithink you can help, you know,
dial into that frequency andfind your Rock 104.
Mike (40:27):
Scott, in addition to people going out and buying the
book, and in a minute I'll askyou, you know, where people can
go to find out more about you.
How do you work with companies,with clients?
is it coaching?
is it training?
Is it about speaking?
Maybe it's all those things, buthow do you get this message out?
How do you work with clients?
Scott Millson (40:45):
So probably I'll take those in reverse.
So speaking is my number onething.
So that, that mostly retiredthing that I'm doing today is
I'm out speaking and so, youknow, I'll be brought into a
client conference to speak withclients, and do a keynote
address of some sort, or ifsomebody's doing a sales kickoff
or they're having a team meetingand they're saying, Hey, we want
to kind of motivate everybody tokind.
Be focused on our growth goalsfor the next year.
(41:05):
I can come in and kind of helpwith that.
So I do a lot of the speakingtoday.
I definitely do some training aswell.
So kind of coming from thespeaking, somebody will say,
Hey, can you come in and divedeeper into that with our team?
Absolutely, we can do that aswell.
I don't do as much one-on-onecoaching.
I'm always available to do thatwith somebody, you know, some of
that I like to just do, youknow, off, off to the side.
So if I do a training event withsomebody and they say, Hey, can
(41:25):
I call you tomorrow and let'sjust talk through some stuff.
Like, yeah, absolutely.
that's me squeezing that spongeand I'm happy to do it and
always willing to kinda sharethe wisdom that was so, you
know, you know, gracefullysharing, graciously shared with
me.
I'm willing to share that backwith others'cause it's meant to
be shared.
Mike (41:42):
And if someone wants to find out more about you, your
speaking, your book, where's thebest place for them to go?
Scott Millson (41:48):
Yeah, so books available pretty much anywhere.
You can buy books.
I've got the audio version, I'vegot the, you know, Kindle
version, got the writtenversion.
so, so any of those would work.
That's on Amazon at Barnes andNoble, anywhere else.
and then, you can find me onscottmillson.com, which is,
Scott.
And then Millson is MILL, twoLs, SON.com.
You can find me there.
Mike (42:08):
Beautiful.
Scott Millson (42:08):
And hit me up on LinkedIn.
I'm always happy to connect withpeople on LinkedIn, so I'm
frequent poster on LinkedIn.
Mike (42:13):
Beautiful.
just curious, did you read yourown book for the audio?
Scott Millson (42:18):
I did.
Yeah.
Mike (42:19):
That to me, I've done it for my last two books.
That is probably the hardestthing, just sitting in one place
and reading the book hour afterhour.
God, I hate that.
Scott Millson (42:31):
Yeah.
Well, I'll tell you, I didn'thate it as much.
What I did though is, you know,I'm a bit of a perfectionist,
right?
And so I thought I had this booklocked up and then you're
reading it back and you're like,why did I say it that way?
Like, there was a better way Icould have said that.
And I'm like, dang, stop it.
This thing's in print, it's inthe Library of Congress, like
you're not changing it.
So just, you know, move on fromthat.
So that was the hardest thingfor me is I would hear something
(42:53):
I'm like.
And you could've said thatbetter, but I moved on from it
and, it was, I enjoyed theprocess.
Mike (42:59):
Yeah, I wrote down when I did my book, I wrote down 18
things that, for the secondprinting of the book, hopefully
I get there for the secondprinting of the book is gonna
change, but I'm with you likefinding those things called ah,
but it's too late to change it.
Well, Scott, this was great.
You know, I always say if youwant a great company.
You need a great leadershipteam.
(43:21):
thanks for helping us get theretoday.
Scott Millson (43:23):
Yeah, absolutely.
Well, I really appreciate theopportunity and, thanks for
having me on.
I am nothing without the mentors that shaped
me.
Period.
End of sentence, full stop.
I'm also grateful for is myfather early in my career
encouraged me to do that.
He said, seek out mentors, likeseek'em out, like lean into
them.
But the other thing he told methat I think is really powerful,
'cause I think this existstoday, we've got a mentorship
gap in the United States today.
(00:22):
I read a study it was a 2019study that said that.
There's a gap that exists in ourcountry today because, 80% of
people know that mentorship isimportant, yet only 37% of
people would say they have amentor.
Mike Goldman (00:42):
You made it to the better leadership team show, the
place where you learn how tosurround yourself with the right
people, doing the right things.
So you can grow your businesswithout losing your mind.
I'm your host and leadershipteam coach, Mike Goldman.
I'm going to show you how toimprove top and bottom line
growth, fulfillment, and thevalue your company adds to the
(01:02):
world by building a betterleadership team.
All right, let's go.
Mike (01:14):
Scott Millson is a mostly retired executive who has
dedicated the second half of hiscareer to helping people find
their frequency of excellenceand grow their careers.
He has held many titles alongthe way, including founder,
president, partner owner, chiefoperating officer, and before
all those.
Petty Officer Second class, USNavy Scott has worked with and
(01:38):
for world class organizationsand leaders.
Now as an author, keynotespeaker and dedicated
encourager, he spends his dayshelping others tune into their
everyday, but not alwaysobvious, crucial lessons of life
and leadership.
And today we're gonna talk abouthis book.
And for those of you watchingthis on video, you'll see I'm
(01:58):
holding it up.
His book, the Frequency ofExcellence.
Scott, welcome to the show.
Scott Millson (02:03):
Thank you so much for having me on, Mike.
I really appreciate theopportunity to be here.
Mike (02:07):
Yeah.
Looking forward to diving in,from all of your experience,
Scott, obviously from yourintro, a whole lot of
experience.
What do you believe is the onemost important characteristic of
a great leadership team?
Scott Millson (02:19):
Yeah, so I have been fortunate, and that's
probably the best way for me tosay it.
I've been fortunate to work withjust some unbelievable, with
some unbelievable organizationsand within some unbelievable,
leadership teams.
And I would say the number onething that I've found that I
keep coming back to, and I'vetried to.
Replicate and emulate, you know,throughout my career is
alignment.
Kind of having that sharedvision where everybody's on the
boat and everybody's rowing inthe same direction.
(02:41):
'cause when you got that, theopportunities for excellence are
limitless.
You know, when you get everybodytogether that's kind of thinking
similarly, et cetera, is justunbelievable.
The opportunities that are thereand they present themselves.
so yeah, it's I'd say alignmentis probably the number one thing
for me.
Mike (02:57):
Excellent and what I see very often is.
The CEO or the leader of a teambelieves there's alignment, but
they need to hear from the restof the team in order to really
determine whether there'salignment or not.
So, so important.
what, Scott, what inspired youto write frequency of
(03:18):
excellence?
You said you're mostly retired,so it sounds like you didn't
have to do this.
What was the inspiration for it?
Scott Millson (03:24):
Yeah.
So for me, I, so I read a greatbook towards the end of my
career as I was thinking aboutretirement, I read this great
book by Arthur Brooks, and Idon't know if you know Arthur
Brooks.
Brilliant man, Harvardprofessor, social scientist,
just brilliant guy.
Something I would never have interms of that brain power.
But he wrote this great bookcalled From Strength to
Strength.
And in that book he talks about.
(03:45):
we have two curves of our lives,or at least he encourages us to
have two curves of our lives inthe first curve, we are striving
to be the best that we can.
And every CEO or any presidentyou've ever worked with, any
leadership team, they're allstriving to be the best at
whatever it is that they do.
And we're working on our resumevirtues in that first curve.
But there comes a point at whichyou start to drop off.
(04:07):
You know, whether you're losingmotivation, losing focus, maybe
it's your intellect, whatever itis, you begin to kind of drop.
And if you don't find a secondcurve, you can kind of drive
yourself into the ground.
And so his encouragement is tofind that second curve.
And so, as I was considering,okay, I'm coming towards the end
of this first curve.
What is my second curve?
so I found it.
(04:27):
And so for me, what he talksabout in the book is he talks
about these, you know, theresume virtues that you're
working on in, in, that firstcurve.
In the second curve you'reworking on sounds morbid, but
your eulogy virtues.
And so for me, I just said, whatis it that I want to give back?
And, you know, I was fortunateagain because of all those
wonderful organizations withwhom I worked and the people
(04:47):
with whom I worked.
I just wanted to share thelessons that were shared with
me.
I wanted to share'em withothers.
And so that really became thedriver for me with the book was
I spent that first curve of mylife being a sponge, and I just
collected everything when I wasaround excellence, I just.
I tuned into their frequency andI just, I gathered all that
information.
It's time for me to now squeezethe sponge and share back with
(05:08):
others what I was, so fortunateto receive in the first curve.
Mike (05:12):
So what is the big overriding message of frequency
of excellence?
Scott Millson (05:17):
Yeah, it's really a growth mindset to kind of boil
it all down.
It is really is a growthmindset.
And so you know what the, if youremember car stereos in the 19
hundreds, you and I might be ofsimilar age, so you remember
that right hand knob, right?
Yeah.
You didn't have presets, youdidn't have a digital readout,
and so my.
My favorite radio stationgrowing up was Rock 104 outta
Gainesville, Florida, which was103.7 on the radio dial.
(05:40):
And you had a hundred, and youhad a 104.
You didn't have a 103.7, so youhad to play with that knob in
order to dial it in to get ontothe right frequency.
And I think, you know, a mentorshared that with me.
this metaphor, this kind of,idea is.
Excellence surrounds us, and wejust have to be dialed into the
right frequency in order tohear.
It's like that radio wave.
(06:00):
If you don't have that tuner,you're missing it.
All you're getting is static.
And so, you know, really themessage that I'm conveying and
trying to tell people is whenyou've got a growth mindset,
when you're a constant learner,trying to figure out what you
can do to better yourself todaythan you were yesterday, or that
you were last year.
I think you've got that growthmindset.
And so if you can have theability to enter into any
(06:22):
situation saying, what am Igonna learn from this person or
from this situation?
And then have the ability tokind of add that into your
being, you know, again, theopportunity to witness
excellence is there when you gotit down in that right frequency
and then you're able to storethat for downstream use.
It just, the opportunities arelimitless then.
Mike (06:41):
I love that.
So the idea is opportunities areeverywhere.
We just need to find a way totune into it.
It makes me think of way backwhen I started my first business
back got, over, well over 20years ago, and I was told You
have to go out there andnetwork.
You gotta network.
And I hated networking.
I'm really good with people Iknow I'm horrible walking up and
(07:02):
talking to, or was horrible atwalking up and talking to
somebody I didn't know.
And one of the things I learnedis to kind of almost psych
myself up before walking intothat networking meeting.
That opportunities wereeverywhere.
So if I found someone thatalready had someone, you know,
(07:23):
if I was, you know, once I wasin my coaching business, if I
found someone that said, ohyeah, you're a coach.
I already have a coach.
Well, if I wasn't looking foropportunity, I'd say, well,
crap, this was a waste of aconversation.
He can't be a client of mine.
But the other way I startedlooking at it is, wow, this is
someone who believes incoaching.
This is the perfect person totalk to because maybe they can
(07:45):
introduce me to somebody else.
Scott Millson (07:47):
yeah, totally.
And then the other thing too ismaybe you can even connect with
that coach and learn from them.
So Right.
Somebody that obviously has donethis, has done it well enough
that they've got a client ofcustomer, the similar customer
that you'd like to receive.
You know, and I've found thatpeople are so willing to give,
you know, that if you can meetsomebody that's doing something
that you aspire to be, whetherit's a particular role or
they've got a skillset, just askthe question and say, Hey, I'd
(08:10):
love to pick your brain on whatyou've done and what the
pitfalls were.
How did you get, how did you getstarted?
How are you winning business?
You know, what do you finding isthe most difficult thing you're
coaching people on today?
And then it's an opportunity tolearn.
So to your point, you've got,you're dialed into that
frequency.
And if you weren't, you'd hit,you'd hear static, right?
When you had that conversation,to your point, you'd have been
like, I'm out.
(08:30):
You know, I'm out.
I'm, you know, nice meeting thisperson, but they're not gonna be
able to help me.
So I'll go move to the otherside of the room.
And instead you get curious andyou go, let's just double down
on that.
Let's see what I can learn fromthem or from their coach.
So yeah, if you've dialed intothe right frequency, the
opportunities are there.
Mike (08:46):
in your book, you talk about something you call
reflective leadership.
Un unpack that.
What?
What does that mean?
Scott Millson (08:53):
Yeah.
So for me, again, it's because Iwas surrounded with excellence.
I knew that I'm an every man,generally speaking, like I am an
every man.
I'm a career B student.
I knew as I started myprofessional career in 1990 that
I was never gonna be thesmartest person in the room, but
I could outlearn everybody andoutwork everybody, and that kind
of became my superpower.
(09:14):
So my ability to kind of.
Learn from others that werearound me.
And then reflect.
Reflect on it, right?
So reflect on what I justlearned, what I just saw.
And you know, there is somethingcalled the power of the pause,
right?
So when you see something thatis excellent and stirs a passion
within you, you know, you kindof get a shot of dopamine.
It stores in your brain thatway, but it only encodes if you
(09:36):
take the moment to pause and toreflect on that.
And so for me, you know, mycareer is, I just, I, you know,
as I was writing the book,actually the working title I had
was called My Leadership Mosaicbecause I am made up of all
those pieces and I've made amosaic of all the people that I,
you know, surrounded myselfwith.
And so that, that is myreflection, you know, it's
reflective leadership is takingall those lessons in, storing
(09:58):
them in your brain and thenusing'em.
Later.
And so if I was in a salessituation or a leadership
situation or a difficult clientsituation, I reflected on what I
saw somebody else do, and Iwould go, that's right.
This is how Brian handled thatin that moment.
Let me use that.
And, you know, then I wouldtinker with it and have it
become my own.
But I'm just a reflection ofthose with whom I've had the
(10:19):
pleasure of working.
Mike (10:21):
How do we make sure, I mean, there's so many things
every day that if we're really.
Tuned into the right frequency.
To use your metaphor, there's somany things every day that are
learning opportunities for us.
People, situations, successes,failures.
I is there a way you've seenthat works?
(10:41):
You know, maybe it's journalingevery day.
I don't know what it is, but howdo we make sure we don't let
that those lessons fly bywithout grabbing hold of them?
Scott Millson (10:52):
Yeah, so it's funny you asked that'cause I, as
I was writing the book and afterI did that, now I've kind of
launched into a speaking career.
I kept getting the question of,well.
To that point, how do you playwith that tuner?
How do I know when I enter in asituation, what can I do to make
sure that I'm dialed into theright frequency?
So I came up with what I callthe B five framework.
And so the B five framework isfive B statements that you can
(11:15):
use kind of action statements ofthings you can do when you enter
a situation to make sure thatyou're gonna learn in that
situation.
So, so the first one is to beintentional.
Be intentional to people withwhom you surround yourself when
you surround yourself withexcellence.
Your opportunity to witnessexcellence increases
dramatically.
And so it's the old adage ofiron sharpens iron high tide,
(11:35):
lift salt boats.
You know, show me your friends,I'll show you your future.
When you surround yourself withpeople that, that demonstrate
excellence, and you'reintentional about that, the
opportunities again, becomelimitless.
And then when you areintentional with that, be
present.
And so it's overstated today.
You know, everybody said yougotta be present, and that's
(11:55):
true.
But when you're with somebody,truly listen more than you
speak.
I call it the new 80 20 rule,which is, listen, 80% talk 20%,
and when you do that.
The opportunity for you to kindof really hear what's going on
when you're present and you'rereally active listening with
people, actively listening.
Again, that's your tuner.
And then when you are present,be curious.
(12:16):
And so that's the third.
B is to be curious, and I thinkit's an under-utilized
superpower today that we're notcurious enough.
You know, I had a mentor onetime, we were prepping for a big
meeting in New York City and inthe middle of, he asked me a
question and I started ramblingand going off on a tangent and
he said under his breath.
A Latin phrase and I was like, Ibarely speak pig Latin.
(12:38):
Like I don't speak Latin.
Like unpack that.
So at the end of it I wascurious and I asked him, I said,
mark, what did you whisperthere?
You said something like Eloquaad, what is that?
And he goes, it speak with apurpose.
And basically what he was doing,it was in a very kind way kind
of hammering me.
Dude, you gotta stop wandering.
You're just filling the wordswith air.
You're not having a real thesisto your words.
(12:59):
And that was a turning point inmy communication career.
And, but it only happenedbecause I was present.
Also, I was curious and I askeda question of like, what does
that mean?
I could have just let it go andbeen like, okay, whatever that
guy said, you know, and let itgo, but I didn't.
and then being bold is aboutlearning is leaning into your
failures.
You know, I've had a careerfilled with failures, as much
failure as I've had success.
(13:20):
but I've used those scars, youknow, I've healed those open
wounds and I've used those scarsto, to help me in the future.
And so being bold is the fourthone.
And then the last one is, wetalked earlier about being
reflective.
You know, embracing the power ofthe pause and allowing that to
encode in our brains.
You know, the hippocampus storesare short term and our long term
memories, and you gotta pause.
(13:41):
Otherwise it doesn't shift fromshort term to long term.
And in order to be successful,you gotta have those memories
and those long term things thatyou can call upon.
So that, yeah, that defiframework.
Yeah.
Mike (13:51):
I'm gonna, I wrote those down.
I love these podcasts.
I'm,'cause I'm like, to me it'slike I'm learning from all these
teachers every time I do apodcast.
So I wrote these down and Iwanna just summarize them again
for, or at least restate themagain for folks.
'cause I think it's so powerfuljust when you are entering into
a.
Conversation, meeting a newperson, new project, new
(14:13):
business, new client, newwhatever you're doing.
The B five was be intentional,be present, be curious, be bold
and be reflective.
That's so, so powerful.
Now in, in going through yourbooks, Scott.
So many different things thatcover, you know, leadership and
management and career and salesand all these things.
(14:34):
and I wanna, I don't wanna tryand focus on all those in the
time we've got, but I wannafocus on a few, That I know were
relevant for me, and I'massuming if they're relevant for
me, they're relevant to myaudience.
So I'm just gonna dive deep on afew things and have you unpack
it.
One is, you know, you talkabout, you know, speaking of
being reflective, you talkabout, seeking mentors and
(14:55):
building your own reflection.
Collection, which sounds likethat mosaic you were talking
about.
but go dig a little deeper forus on the idea of reflection
collection and, you know, how,how you go out and find those
mentors and how you leveragethose mentors.
Scott Millson (15:12):
Yeah, I am nothing without the mentors that
shaped me.
Period.
End of sentence, full stop.
Like I, I am so grateful to thementors that shaped me, but what
I'm also grateful for is myfather early in my career
encouraged me to do that.
He said, seek out mentors, likeseek'em out, like lean into
them.
But the other thing he told methat I think is really powerful,
(15:34):
'cause I think this existstoday, we've got a mentorship
gap in the United States today.
I read a study that was a, itwas a 2019 study that said that.
There's a gap that exists in ourcountry today because, 80% of
people know that mentorship isimportant, yet only 37% of
people would say they have amentor.
And so what is that gap like?
(15:54):
Why does that exist?
And I think a lot of it ispeople are looking for a
formalization.
Maybe it's HR comes down andsays, Hey, Mike, you're gonna be
mentored by this person, right?
Tom's gonna be your mentor.
Sally's gonna be your mentor.
You know, work with them.
And if people are waiting forthat to happen, I think they're
missing an opportunity becauseI've had 50 mentors.
I can name'em, you know, rightoff the top of my head.
(16:16):
People that guided my career andwere really.
Inspirational and helpful forme.
Not in one of those situationsdid I ever go up to them and
say, Hey, will you mentor me?
It was an organic relationshipthat developed over time by me
working with somebody sayingthey're at a place or they're
doing something that I aspireto, to be or to have.
And so.
(16:37):
I would just watch'em, I wouldlisten to them.
I would be curious around them.
You know, those are the peoplethat I just started saying, I
want to be like that.
I wanna take, you know, taketheir skills and do that.
And so over time a real nicerelationship developed.
I mean, I've got some mentorsthat I still today, I haven't
seen in 20 years.
But I'll pick up the phone andI'll call'em and I say, Hey, I'm
(16:58):
considering doing X, Y, or Z.
What do you think?
and that only became because ofthat relationship and there was
a trust there, and there wasjust a wonderful relationship
that developed over time.
And so yeah, I, I sought outmentors.
but again, never really all thatformal, I never had a
certificate on my wall thatsaid, John is Scott's mentor.
They've completed thismentorship program, check the
box.
(17:19):
It doesn't, it didn't exist.
And, and I think they're morepowerful because they happened
organically and we really leanedinto one another.
Mike (18:46):
I wonder if it's a bit more difficult today, and let me
run this by you.
What's going through my head isback.
You know, I just turned 60 thisyear and so I, you know, I have,
you know, 35 plus years outthere in the business world and
back when you actually.
W what?
When before remote and hybridwork.
(19:08):
Now there are a lot more folksgoing back to work now, which I
back to a physical location,which I think is a good thing.
But whe before remote and hybridwork like you'd.
You chat with people in thehallway, you chat with people
before the meeting.
After the meeting, it was easyto say, Hey, I'd, you know, I'd
love to bend your ear on a fewthings.
Why don't we, you know, you freefor lunch today.
(19:29):
You free for lunch tomorrow.
And these days, so much of whatwe do is you are on a Zoom call
or a teams call, and then thecall is over and you go back to
work.
so it feels to me like we've gotto be a lot more purposeful in
seeking those folks out becausethey may not happen as, it may
(19:51):
not happen as naturally as maybeit did 5, 10, 25 years ago.
Scott Millson (19:58):
yeah.
No doubt.
I mean, I would say that,today's world is more difficult
if you've not met somebody.
So in, in those 50 scenarioswhere I had 50 mentors, probably
48 of'em are people that I had.
Pressed palms with, right?
I had worked alongside, we hadsweat together, we had, you
know, shared blood together ondifferent projects.
And so there was real depth thatkind of came from that
(20:19):
relationship.
there, there were a couplethough, that are people that,
candidly, I've never met face toface.
It's somebody that I had arelationship with, either on a
project of some sort, but wenever really formally met.
That's probably later in mycareer as kind of Zoom and other
things came about.
But it's somebody once againthat I leaned in on that
relationship and said they aredoing something, or they are,
they're performing in a mannerin which I want to do that.
(20:42):
And so it is more difficult forsure.
It's not impossible, but it ismore difficult.
And it is an encouragement forpeople that if you are hybrid.
Take those opportunities to, tofind an opportunity to get to
the head office or to go to thesales meeting, or to go to the
leadership retreat, whatever itis, don't buy, don't miss those
opportunities to press palms to,you know, to meet somebody.
(21:04):
To sit eye, to eye withsomebody, to develop a
relationship that is more,based, more so than virtual
based.
And so don't miss thoseopportunities'cause they are
there.
And, I do think they are thefoundation of a really strong
relationship that could exist.
Mike (21:18):
I think it also means as leaders and most folks listening
to this podcast or are leadersat some level as leaders, let's
be proactive and.
Mentor folks, find those folksto mentor.
Don't, you know, don'tnecessarily wait.
(21:38):
what do you think of that?
You know, as leaders, how can webe more proactive and find those
opportunities to mentor someoneelse?
Scott Millson (21:48):
Yeah, I love that, that the frequency of
excellence is a dual signal,right?
So I spent the majority of mycareer taking that in from
people, and so I was tuned intotheir frequency.
But there does come a pointwhere you have to realize that
people are gonna start tuninginto your frequency.
And so therefore it becomes kindof a, that dual signal and it
really starts to take root.
(22:09):
And so I think it's reallyimportant as you grow in your
career and you hit thatleadership levels, you have to
understand that culture is areflection of the leader.
So go back to that alignment.
If I'm not modeling thebehaviors of what I'm telling
people, saying, Hey, look, it'sreally important for us to be
ethical.
Just take that as an example, ifthat's one of our core values.
(22:30):
Everything I do needs to makesure that it's passing the test
of if somebody's watching me, amI be, am I behaving in a way
that's consistent with whatwe've got hanging on the wall,
right?
So I have to make sure that I'mdoing those things.
And so I think as leaders, it'sreally important for us to
understand that people arewatching us and people are
looking for us to be theirmentors.
And when you see somebodyleaning in, being present, being
(22:52):
curious.
Seek them out, right.
And then pour into them and say,Hey, look, I noticed that you
were asking some good questionsfollowing that meeting, what can
I do to help you?
Is there a way that I might beable to set aside some time to
meet with you and dissect, youknow, kind of what you're
working on?
and I can share what I'm workingon too.
And again, that's that dualfrequency.
I spent that first part of mycareer doing that to others.
(23:15):
I need to return that favor.
And that's that second curvethat I'm in now, is I want to
just share that with others.
And so, you know, if somebody'slistening to this or somebody
reading my book reaches out, I'mengaging them.
I wanna talk to them and I wannasee how can I help them because,
it's my turn to kind of giveback on that.
Mike (23:31):
Yeah.
Digging into that a little bitmore, you know, part of it is.
You know, talking to folks inthat second curve of your
career.
By the way, I think I'm on curvenumber three or four if that's
possible, but,
Scott Millson (23:44):
Good.
Keep
Mike (23:44):
that's just'cause I get bored quickly.
but one of the things as wetalked before this and preparing
for this and you and I tradingsome information back and forth,
one of the things you said to methat I think factors into, to
one of the things you just said,so I wanna unpack it a little
bit, is you said.
Culture is the shadow of theleader, and leaders need to
understand that they're a forcemultiplier for both good and
(24:08):
bad.
Talk a little bit more aboutthat.
I think that's such an importantpoint.
Scott Millson (24:13):
Yeah, I mean, so I come from a military
background.
You've mentioned I served in theNavy and in that, you know,
there's a term within the Navythat they use, which is a, it's
a force multiplier, somethingsmall that has a kind of
disproportionate impact.
And as a leader, I believe thatwe are force multipliers, how we
act, how we behave.
Impacts others.
And so I, I'll give you a greatexample.
(24:34):
I had a consulting client onetime that was, that was a
restaurant they had, they weregrowing barbecue restaurant,
which by the way, I lovebarbecue.
So, but so, so it was easy forme to get this one as a client.
But I remember riding aroundwith the owner one time and he
said, look, when I walk into arestaurant.
And I start interacting with theteam.
I can tell the mood of thegeneral manager based on the
(24:55):
team and how they're interactingwith customers or me or anybody
else.
And so I said, I unpacked thatwith him.
And I said, what do you mean bythat?
And he said, because he said thegeneral manager, they're in a
good mood, right?
And they're high energy andthey're running around the
restaurant and they're modelingthe behaviors they want others
to, to do.
He said, I can guarantee thatthe team is gonna be in a good.
(25:15):
Good place.
He said, conversely, if the teamis just kind of moping about and
kind of interacting with theguest a little bit, but they're
not high energy or anything, hegoes, I can find the general
manager and know that they're inthat same place.
He said, so it's a forcemultiplier that general manager
is a force multiplier.
How they act people are going totake from them, they're gonna
take their cues from theirleader.
(25:36):
And so it was such a goodreminder for me of the need to
be as a leader, a strong forcemultiplier.
But it also.
Understand that it's a two-edgedsword, right?
Because you gotta use that powerfor good, knowing that you're a
force multiplier.
Be, you know, be positive, beoptimistic.
Those things are forcemultipliers for the good.
(25:56):
Conversely, I've seen really badleaders that when the wind
shifts just a little bit,they're just in the dirt.
You know, they just drivethemselves into the dirt and
they're just like, oh, woe is meand terrible situation going on
in the climate, the economy,whatever it is.
And people take their cues fromthat too.
And so you gotta know that as aleader, you are a force
multiplier and you gotta usethat power for good.
Mike (26:20):
Yeah.
You talk about, being a laughingleader, which I think relates to
this.
Talk a little bit more aboutthat.
Scott Millson (26:27):
Yeah.
You know, I was so fortunate.
You know, I graduated college in1989.
I went to work for anorganization called Hewitt
Associates.
I was there 17 years.
The organization doesn't reallyexist anymore.
It kind of got bought and soldmultiple times, but it was.
My foundation, anything I amtoday as a professional and
maybe even as a person I gotfrom that organization.
(26:47):
And one of the things I loved isI was a 22-year-old, you know,
bright eyed, bushy haired.
I had hair back then, but youknow, bright, bushy haired kid
running in.
Ready to kind of conquer theworld.
And what I loved is we workedhard.
I mean, we worked 80, 90 hourweeks.
I actually hit 100, you know,hours in a week one time.
Just, we worked really hard, butwe played hard too.
(27:09):
Like we had no, you know, noproblem poking fun at one
another.
And so it was just a greatreminder for me that we gotta
take our job seriously, but wedon't have to take ourselves so
seriously.
And I think when we as leaders.
Inject humor and look, it alwaysneeds to be good natured, right?
don't be that person that puts,you know.
Puts other people down oranything like that, like don't
(27:30):
do that.
'cause that force multiplier,again, people will pick up on
that.
But when you can laugh amongyour peers, when you can set an
environment that says, you knowwhat, y'all can poke fun at me.
That's fine.
Let's, that's okay.
I think that humanizes us asleaders that says it's okay for
us to have some fun.
And so, I mean, I remember onetime in particular we did, it
was April Fools and we just, westayed up late one night and we
(27:52):
just put.
Different pranks all around theoffice.
And it was great and the leaderwas right there with us doing
it.
And it was just, you know, itwas just a great environment in
which to work and you know, forme to start my career.
But, you know, laughter I thinkhumanizes us.
I think it gives us all shots ofdopamine and it gives people a
desire to want to come to workin an environment where like,
we're gonna work hard.
(28:13):
don't mistake that, but we'regonna have some fun as well.
And so I always had this beliefof we all need to be laughing
leaders and to lead that byexample.
Mike (28:21):
Yeah.
what it reminds me of issomething that I.
Coach a lot of my CEOs on that Iwork with is very often A CEO
thinks I'm gonna hire a head ofHR or I'm gonna make my head of
hr the owner of the culturewithin the organization.
And I always say, well, youknow, a head of HR can do a lot
(28:44):
to help you promote the cultureand further define the culture
and all that stuff, but.
As the CEO, you own the culture.
Nobody else could own that.
And I think that's to your pointof people are gonna take their
cue from the leader.
Scott Millson (28:58):
yeah.
You can't, you know, as I saidearlier, I think culture is a
shadow of a leader.
You notice I didn't say cultureis the shadow of hr, right?
I mean, HR can carry thatforward and they might be the
catalyst to help drive some ofthose things, but people are
taking their cues from theirleader, not from hr.
HR is wonderful and they're, youknow, really helpful within an
organization, but they shouldnot be asked to set the culture.
(29:20):
You know, it should be theleader.
The leader has to be the onethat is gonna, that's gonna set
the stage, and people are gonnafollow what they do, not
necessarily what HR does.
You know, they're not gonnafollow Toby Flenderson.
They're gonna follow, you know,they're gonna follow the leader
and the culture that they'resetting for themselves, you
know?
Mike (29:35):
The other thing that, that you talked about in the book
that I wanted to dig into alittle bit,'cause it's so
relevant to some of the workthat I do and helping my
clients.
Coach and develop, you know,talent within their organization
is you talk about the idea offeed forward being way more
important than, than feedback.
(29:57):
What is the difference betweenfeed forward and feedback and
why is it so much moreimportant?
Scott Millson (30:01):
Yeah.
Well, I love that in yourupcoming book, you know, the
strength of talent is you haveMarshall Goldsmith blurb at the
top.
So Feed Forward for me camefrom.
Marshall Goldsmith.
I was fortunate, thatorganization I was with, Hewlett
Associates.
They had a really strong beliefthat learning and development
was one of the most importantorganizations within our
company.
and so they really pushed hardon learning and development, and
(30:25):
I was fortunate enough to be ina leadership capacity and they
would pull leaders together.
you know, twice a year.
And so we'd go up to Chicago andthey'd bring in speakers.
And I was fortunate at one timethat Marshall Goldsmith was one
of those.
And so he sat before a hundredof the leaders of this
organization and gave us thisnugget of feed forward versus
feedback.
And so it's funny, we all knowthat we're, the term feedback is
(30:47):
a gift, right?
But if it's a gift, when I saythe word feedback to most
people.
It like tightens the stomach,like, Hey, we're gonna sit down
and do some feedback, andeverybody's like, oh no.
Like, oh, here it comes.
Right?
Because they, feedback is basedon the past.
you're giving somebody counselon something that has happened
immediately.
When you hear that you're gonnaget defensive, well, you don't
(31:10):
quite understand the situation.
I didn't, you don't understandthe context in which that
situation happened or whatever.
You immediately get defensive,which all that means is you're
not listening.
You're not hearing what theperson is trying to give you.
So we say feedback as a gift,but we don't receive it very
well.
We don't receive it as a gift.
And what Marshall Goldsmith gaveus was work on doing feed
(31:30):
forward.
So instead of feedback, talkingabout something in the past,
talk about something in thefuture and do it as coaching.
And so instead of saying, Hey,look, in that last meeting, I
think you need to have a betteropening.
You know, I think you need to, Ithink you need to be more
concise with your words on that.
So that's very well.
Intended feedback that you'regiving somebody.
But imagine if I give the exactsame coaching and I say, Hey,
(31:51):
look in our upcoming meeting,you know, I think it'd be really
focus on that intro today.
Really focus in on kind of howyou're opening that.
Think about the objections thatmight be coming their way.
Think about that in advance, andI, and let's role play that a
little bit.
That doesn't tighten thestomach.
That loosens the stomach.
And so feedback is tighteningthat stomach because you're
talking about something in thepast, and I have to defend
(32:13):
myself, right?
You're telling me I didn't dosomething right.
Feed forward is just talkingabout something that hasn't
happened yet.
I can't be defensive.
It hasn't happened.
And so it was just, it was agift that I got that, that
coaching from Marshall Goldsmiththat, it became a cornerstone of
my career.
I think that was probably 20, 24years ago.
I heard that.
And, he shared that with us andit has stuck with me and it's as
(32:33):
if it would happened yesterday.
So it is definitely part of thatreflection collection.
Mike (32:38):
And it's such a small.
But important distinction, likeit's so easy to turn feedback
into feed forward in the way,hey, you know, next time in a
meeting, let's focus on this.
It's so easy.
You could do that with anythingyou're thinking of, giving
feedback on.
you could flip that switch.
So I love those things that areso powerful and yet so easy to
(33:01):
do.
the key, I guess the hardestpart is not.
Flipping the switch.
The hardest part is rememberingto flip the switch.
Scott Millson (33:09):
Yeah.
And it becomes a, you know,leadership is a muscle, you
know, it requires exercise.
And so just like anything thatis good in our lives, we have to
keep doing it.
We have to exercise it.
And I think leadership is amuscle.
And so when you work that muscleand you continually are giving
feed forward, it just becomesnatural.
So instead of saying tosomebody, Hey, let's sit down
and we're gonna, we're gonnagive you some feedback, and we
(33:31):
go into that, just startcoaching people and saying, Hey,
you know what, I'd like to sitdown and let's talk about the
upcoming meeting that we've gotcoming.
And it changes everything.
And so if you do that over andover again, it becomes
repetitive and it becomes thatmuscle and you get muscle
memory.
Mike (33:46):
One more thing I want to ask before we start to wrap up
and it actually kind of loopsback to the mentoring
conversation, but it just jumpedin my head and I think it's
important is, you know, when weare younger professionals, if we
are looking for it, there areseemingly dozens of mentors out
(34:06):
there.
Folks that are more successful,more senior have something to
teach us.
But when we are.
You know, 50 something, 60something.
And we are leaders within ourorganization.
We are, vice presidents orC-level executives or CEOs
(34:27):
within the organization.
there's a whole lot more peopledown, lower than us on the org
chart than above us on the orgchart.
So, as senior leaders, howshould we go about.
Finding mentors'cause easy tosay, well now it's my time to
mentor.
I'm 60 years old, I don't needto be mentored anymore.
You know, bullshit.
(34:47):
I still need to look for mentorsmyself.
so as senior leaders, how do wego about finding mentors when
we're at that point in ourcareer?
Scott Millson (34:55):
Yeah, so we talked earlier about how leaders
need to make sure that theyunderstand that they're modeling
the behavior that they wantpeople to do.
So if you want people in yourorganization to find mentors,
guess what?
you gotta find mentors, yougotta talk openly.
'cause like if you're in, ifyou're sitting with your
leadership team, or maybe it'seven the people that report to
the leadership team, and you saythe words, you know, I was
(35:17):
talking with my mentor recentlyand this person reminded me of
X, Y, or Z, whatever it is,guess what you has done?
You've now injected intoeverybody that's sitting in that
audience and go, oh, mentorshipis important to that person.
And if I aspire to be like them.
Maybe I need to start thinkingabout mentorship.
And so mentorship, I mean, inanything we do as a leader, we
(35:39):
need to recognize that we arebeing watched, we are being
seen, we're, people are modelingthe behaviors after us.
So we have to, in everythingthat we do, make sure that we
are setting that course forpeople.
And so, you know, I believe thatas if I, you know, go back to
what we started talking aboutinitially, growth mindset is so
important for me, it has been,if I had any superpower.
(36:01):
It was my ability to observe, myability to watch, listen, and
learn, and then, you know, usethose skills that I was able to
develop from others.
But as I grew in my career, Iknew that I needed to set an
organizational culture thatrewarded that.
So if I saw somebody in myorganization that was seeking
out learning, if they wereseeking out ways that they could
(36:23):
get better at something, if theywere seeking out mentors.
I rewarded that I was very vocalabout, Hey, this is what this
person recently did to improvethemselves.
Kudos to them, whatever thatmight be.
Kudos might be dollars, it mightbe whatever, a pat on the back.
It might be, you know,recognition within a team
meeting.
But when I do that as a leaderand I start recognizing and
(36:45):
setting a culture that's sayingwe want to be growth minded, we
don't wanna be fixed minded, wewanna be growth minded.
And when we do that.
Guess what?
Everybody's gonna begin tofollow that now because again,
that culture is the reflectionof me if I'm the leader.
And so, you know, you have toset an organizational culture
that is focused on growthmindedness.
and then mentorship is just abig part of that.
Mike (37:07):
Excellent.
And I find sometimes for seniorleaders, you know, as a junior
leader you could typically findpotential mentors right?
Within your organization.
They absolutely do not need tobe, but you could find a good
chunk there as a senior.
Leader very often we've gotta,we've gotta be looking outside
of our organization to theindustry group we're part of,
(37:28):
or, you know, somewhere outside.
Scott Millson (37:30):
yeah.
And look, I mean, I have neverstopped learning I today.
I mean, Simon Sinek for me is,you know, if I want to inspire
myself, I go find a video onsomething that Simon said.
I learn from him every singletime I watch what he says.
I just lean in on that guy.
I got a bit of a man crush onhim.
I just, he's just, he'sbrilliant guy.
He is done really well.
(37:51):
The way he thinks and the way hepresents information, I just
think is phenomenal and so.
I've never stopped growing andlearning, and I will use that
with people.
You know, if I'm before a team,I'll say, you know, I was
watching a podcast, or I waslistening to, maybe it was Mike
Goldman's podcast, whatever itis, right?
I wanna give the credit to whom,the person that shared that with
me, but more than anything, butI'm really doing is I'm letting
(38:12):
'em know I'm not a continuousjourney of growth here.
I'm not done.
You know, there's an old CPAterm that's called Sally, which
means same as last year.
What you wanna avoid is don'tbe, Sally.
Don't ever get comfortable withsaying, same as last year, that
I'm gonna be where I am tomorrowof where I am today.
Don't do that.
Like continually be looking totry to better yourself and
(38:34):
whatever it is that you'redoing, and when you do that, it
helps you.
But when you model that behaviorand you talk openly about it,
and you talk openly about.
The challenges why are youlistening to that podcast?
Well, I don't think I'm thatgood at X, Y, and Z.
You humanize yourself and all ofa sudden the team is leaning in
and they're learning from you.
So as a leader, just don't everforget that you are being
watched and you are being, youknow, how you behave, and the
(38:56):
model that you set will set theculture for the organization.
Mike (39:01):
For a leader listening right now that wants to embed
excellence deeper into theirorganization, where should they
start tomorrow morning?
What's one thing they ought todo tomorrow morning to move
forward on some of these ideas?
Scott Millson (39:16):
So I think it's, it's gonna sound self-serving as
I say this, but follow the Bfive framework.
You know, wake up in the morningand saying, how can I be
intentional of people with whomI surround myself?
How can I surround myself withexcellence?
Like, who in my community, whoin my industry, who in my
network is doing something thatI think is excellent?
Be closer to them.
Lean in on them, like you spendmore time with them.
(39:38):
That's the intentionality.
And then when you're there, bepresent and be curious with
them.
Really just don't be like, well,I'm gonna spend time with them.
And it was nice.
We had a nice barbecue lunch andthat was great.
No, like, be present.
Listen, you know, talk 20%.
Listen 80% do those things.
Be curious when they saysomething and then be bold to
lean into your failures andrecognize that person that you
(39:59):
think is outstanding at whatthey did, guess what?
They had a ton of failures too.
Ask them that, like, what wasyour biggest failure?
And if they say they haven't hadany.
That's a fixed mindset likethat, you're not gonna get much
from them.
But when they say, man, I've hada ton and here they are, and
here's what I learned from eachof those situations, you're
good.
And then just, you know, bereflective and take those
opportunities to learn that.
(40:20):
So I think if you wake uptomorrow morning and you can
think of those five things, Ithink you can help, you know,
dial into that frequency andfind your Rock 104.
Mike (40:27):
Scott, in addition to people going out and buying the
book, and in a minute I'll askyou, you know, where people can
go to find out more about you.
How do you work with companies,with clients?
is it coaching?
is it training?
Is it about speaking?
Maybe it's all those things, buthow do you get this message out?
How do you work with clients?
Scott Millson (40:45):
So probably I'll take those in reverse.
So speaking is my number onething.
So that, that mostly retiredthing that I'm doing today is
I'm out speaking and so, youknow, I'll be brought into a
client conference to speak withclients, and do a keynote
address of some sort, or ifsomebody's doing a sales kickoff
or they're having a team meetingand they're saying, Hey, we want
to kind of motivate everybody tokind.
Be focused on our growth goalsfor the next year.
(41:05):
I can come in and kind of helpwith that.
So I do a lot of the speakingtoday.
I definitely do some training aswell.
So kind of coming from thespeaking, somebody will say,
Hey, can you come in and divedeeper into that with our team?
Absolutely, we can do that aswell.
I don't do as much one-on-onecoaching.
I'm always available to do thatwith somebody, you know, some of
that I like to just do, youknow, off, off to the side.
So if I do a training event withsomebody and they say, Hey, can
(41:25):
I call you tomorrow and let'sjust talk through some stuff.
Like, yeah, absolutely.
that's me squeezing that spongeand I'm happy to do it and
always willing to kinda sharethe wisdom that was so, you
know, you know, gracefullysharing, graciously shared with
me.
I'm willing to share that backwith others'cause it's meant to
be shared.
Mike (41:42):
And if someone wants to find out more about you, your
speaking, your book, where's thebest place for them to go?
Scott Millson (41:48):
Yeah, so books available pretty much anywhere.
You can buy books.
I've got the audio version, I'vegot the, you know, Kindle
version, got the writtenversion.
so, so any of those would work.
That's on Amazon at Barnes andNoble, anywhere else.
and then, you can find me onscottmillson.com, which is,
Scott.
And then Millson is MILL, twoLs, SON.com.
You can find me there.
Mike (42:08):
Beautiful.
Scott Millson (42:08):
And hit me up on LinkedIn.
I'm always happy to connect withpeople on LinkedIn, so I'm
frequent poster on LinkedIn.
Mike (42:13):
Beautiful.
just curious, did you read yourown book for the audio?
Scott Millson (42:18):
I did.
Yeah.
Mike (42:19):
That to me, I've done it for my last two books.
That is probably the hardestthing, just sitting in one place
and reading the book hour afterhour.
God, I hate that.
Scott Millson (42:31):
Yeah.
Well, I'll tell you, I didn'thate it as much.
What I did though is, you know,I'm a bit of a perfectionist,
right?
And so I thought I had this booklocked up and then you're
reading it back and you're like,why did I say it that way?
Like, there was a better way Icould have said that.
And I'm like, dang, stop it.
This thing's in print, it's inthe Library of Congress, like
you're not changing it.
So just, you know, move on fromthat.
So that was the hardest thingfor me is I would hear something
(42:53):
I'm like.
And you could've said thatbetter, but I moved on from it
and, it was, I enjoyed theprocess.
Mike (42:59):
Yeah, I wrote down when I did my book, I wrote down 18
things that, for the secondprinting of the book, hopefully
I get there for the secondprinting of the book is gonna
change, but I'm with you likefinding those things called ah,
but it's too late to change it.
Well, Scott, this was great.
You know, I always say if youwant a great company.
You need a great leadershipteam.
(43:21):
thanks for helping us get theretoday.
Scott Millson (43:23):
Yeah, absolutely.
Well, I really appreciate theopportunity and, thanks for
having me on.
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